Chris Cairns is on holiday
Posted on
January 19, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Yes, still. Yes, again. But don’t worry, we still have a cartoon joke for you.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Scottish Labour Party.
3 million anti Tory UK votes. The Tories would never get into power again.
300,000+ SNP/Independence migrant votes. SNP/Independence is won,
Dr Jim
I hae ma doots about the denial of self-determination legal grounds if an S30 is refused.
I fear that a court would say the same as myself and many others: independence could be democratically achieved by elections and the people of Scotland / SNP have not been prevented from seeking a mandate for independence that way.
If the SNP choose not to use that GE option, then that’s the SNP’s own voluntary policy decision, not the fault of the UK state.
Here we go again…one flew over the coco’s nest.
Just watched May in the house. Since the unmeaningful vote she would be as well letting the body language match the stance by putting her hands over her ears and sining La la la la la la la …..
I’m convinced as she repeats adnosia we will be leaving the 29th March it’ a case of Follow the Big Money and averting the EU’s incoming new financial regulations to force tax heavens and funds to declare and account the owners, value of accounts exposing where money came from, if and where tax was paid and it being illegal for fund managers and advisors to attempt to create avoidance.
The EU is closing down financial corruption and tax avoidance.
Of coarse May will be well schooled of the ramifications by her city fund manger consultancy husband. Such a parcel of Rogues …..
“I hae ma doots”
I prefer fresh tobacco in a roll-up.
Theresa May wants Brexit talks with Nicola Sturgeon
Theresa May is to meet Nicola Sturgeon on Wednesday after pledging to give the Scottish government an “enhanced role” in future Brexit talks.
link to archive.is
———————————————————
Ha! I feel a vow bubbling to the surface. 🙂
Robert Louis @ 6.21pm
Yeah but, yeah but….
I agree with you entirely that anybody can hold a ref whenever they like about anything. Don’t think anybody disputes that but, it’s necessary to have it recognised by WM because if it’s not, then we’re sure as hell not going to have the result recognised by other nations – which is what is really important. Also, ‘Better Together’ would have every reason to boycott the whole thing, which despite some people’s delight at the prospect, would only weaken the chances of the result being recognised internationally.
I’ll say again, it doesn’t matter how WM views Scotland, it doesn’t really matter how Scotland views Scotland, but it really, really does matter how other nations view Scotland which is why we MUST get it right.
” Theresa May is to meet Nicola Sturgeon on Wednesday after pledging to give the Scottish government an “enhanced role” in future Brexit talks. “
Too little, too late. Tell her to F’Off, Nicola. Call IndyRef2. Now is almost the time.
Many companies based in england will be looking for EU based countries to build their products or to base their Banks in.
Scotland must let them know that we will be opening for EU business at at the earliest opportunity.
France and Germany waiting like a couple of vultures to snap up London’s Financial Services Sector.
You see,,,,there is an upside to Brexit,,,,it’s not all doom and gloom.
Ironically, if a home-built Referendum was challenged in court and survived the challenge, Spain might be the first country to recognise Independent Scotland.
Aye! T May wants to meet Nicola next week to discuss future Brexit negotiations after her deal has been accepted…. don’t forget that bit.
So, once the Withdrawal Bill has been accepted,
i.e. after the power grab which was rejected by cross-party support from Holyrood,
after taking the S Gov to court to drive a bus over our legislation and our decision making, – so once we’ve established that WM has rendered Holyrood unable to legislate – and ONLY then, she wants to involve Scotland in future talks.
Aye right!
Nicola Sturgeon should refuse any talks with the Tories, they had plenty time to talk over the last two years but decided to ignore the very existence of Scotland.
What cheek these Tories have and a brass neck to boot, expect nothing from the Tories and avoid disappointment.
Sounds to me as if T May is sounding out as many facets of ‘society’ as possible to draw up their wish list to construct a manifesto for the next GE.
She’s going to push her deal through and then go for an election and hope to get the DUP off her back and increase her majority – then she will do whatever she wants regardless of what she has promised in these last and next few days.
LA, LA, la, LA, LA
I posted this on the
link to wingsoverscotland.com
page on the 18th.
———————————————-
RE: The Claim of Rights.
This quote is taken from the link below. (My capitalisation.)
“Under James VII during the ‘Glorious Revolution’ the “Thrie Estaites” looked again at the contractual notion of Scottish kingship, and offered the throne to William and Mary on the basis of the 1689 Claim of Right, which was enacted into Scots Law as a statute and REMAINS ON THE LEGAL BOOKS OF THE UK TO THIS DAY. In Scottish constitutional terms Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, is on the throne because the people say so, and if we decide the House of Windsor is in breach of its contract they can be expelled just like James VII before them.
For example, if the Queen were to publicly state that she did not wish Scotland to be independent (as many of the Unionist persuasion like to claim), she would be acting contrary to the requirements of the 1689 Claim of Right, as it is not within her power to decide on this issue nor use her position to influence the decision in any way – Elizabeth, as Queen of Scots, must accede to the wishes of the Scottish people, or lose the right to the Scottish crown.”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
————————————–
link to oireachtas.ie
Meanwhile, Ireland celebrates 100y of parliamentary democracy…just, for info…?
Starlaw
I’m sure Nicola feels she disnae want to talk wi’ T may but if she refuses, it’s a gift to the Tories. Look at the amount of times they’re blaming Corbyn for no’ holding talks wi’ her.
Who knows, maybe Nicola will turn the tables round and ask for a reply to her letter of two years ago asking for a S 30 agreement.
Jeez!
Just reading on the BBC Scotland website that a nuclear submarine and a Stena ferry on the N. Ireland route had a close encounter in November!
link to bbc.co.uk
The nuclear sub was submerged and operating at periscope depth – presumably the conversation went something like: –
” …I’m not sure exactly where we are Captain, probably close to N. Ireland…. dive, dive. dive!!! “
Contrary to popular opinion of activists from either side, there are many many things that unite Scots whatever our consitutional preference, and whisky is one of them. Sometimes it can take what seems a minor thing to change people’s views completely. It was bias of the BBC and all media back in 1972 for me, the patronising attitude and ignorance about Scotland, when pointed out to me. I’d never even thought about it before. Could whisky be the tipping point?
link to thenational.scot
Made the mistake of watching a snippet of UK parliament today –
I thought I couldn’t dislike Theresa May any more than I already do (anyone out there still feeling sorry for her needs big wake up call)
Her response to Ian Blackford, shows what a desperate, shameless liar she is.
TM “flies in the face of economic reality” (re iScotland)
I’m so fucking angry, I’m going to call her a ‘cunt’ with a capital C.
Apologies to the anti-swearing lobby.
Mmm, or should that be tippling point?
@Robert Louis who said: “The only alternative would be for London to send in troops and declare foreign military rule over Scotland. An unlikely scenario”.
It’s really not an unlikely scenario. It’s a risk to be calculated and prepared for.
Troops were sent into ireland (Black and tans) when ireland declared independence 100 years ago.
They were sent into Northern ireland when catholics, nationalists and republicans resisted the Orange sectarian state of NI (1970-98)
Churchill sent them into Wales (Tony pandy 1911)
They did it in Glasgow (battle of George Sq 1919)
They massacred people at Peterloo, Manchester (1819)
See a pattern here?
What makes you think it’s not a repeating pattern?
So, here’s how the meeting with NS and Theresa will go next week.
TM: IF you support my brexit deal, I’ll let you come to some meetings, and pretend to let you have a say in things, while I trash devolution and forcibly drag Scotland out of the EU against its wishes.
NS aye, right.
Honestly, the whole premise of the meeting is an outright f***ing insult to both NS and Scotland. The smug grin on David Liddington’s face, in all these situations, gives the game away.
I wouldn’t normally suggest NS ignore such a meeting, but honestly, in this case, she should. Just one big long p*ss take by Theresa May and her racist brexiteer chums.
Nicola should call the referendum on the steps of number 10, instead.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
21 January, 2019 at 2:36 pm
“AS’s remarks are not helpful at the minute and I had a jubilant unionist laughing at me today that AS was undermining NS.”
Is there or is there not a civil war within the SNP?
@Ronnie Anderson –
Re meeting place – why not both? I’ll run it over Thepnr. If we’re meeting 4ish there’ll be plenty of time.
😉
Cod knows what Tereza has to offer Nicola EU have made their decision long since Tereza’s now looking for scapegoats.
Git her telt Nicola Indyref2 before the 29th March .
Meg at 732pm,
I actually don’t think it would be a gift to the tories, Judging by many comments in the HoC today (including from some extremely frustrated tories), I think many are now sick and tired with her time wasting. It is pretty obvious Theresa is running the clock down, so as to force acceptance of her dumb deal. All the talk of re-visiting things and ‘seeking consensus’ is just class A spin.
No, in this one instance, I think the FM will be quite right to reject the meeting, but in reply request a section 30. If a negative response, proceed to name the date for the indy ref the very next day, regardless.
Luigi says:
21 January, 2019 at 4:16 pm
“If a formal request for a section 30 order is refused, perhaps the spectacle of another SNP walkout from WM would help draw global attention to our treatment by the BritNat establishment.
Just sayin.”
The rest of the globe doesn’t give a damn about pathetic wee Scotland which voted No to independence.
Just sayin.”
RL @7.50pm
That is EXACTLY what Alex Salmond would have done and why I (and plenty like me) could never get behind him.
Nicola’s pragmatic approach is precisely what is needed here, and will pay dividends given time.
orri says:
21 January, 2019 at 4:34 pm
“If I were Alex Salmond and I stood against an official SNP candidate costing them a seat that might have been theirs then I’d consider very carefully whether independence or feeding my own ego was my primary goal.”
Alex Salmond is being made a scapegoat for Nicola’s spectacular squandering of a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity for Scotland to become independent.
Nicola has shown 100% support for the dishonest unionist civil servants.
But ZERO support for Mr and Mrs Salmond.
This is my personal opinion, and I might be partly or completely wrong.
Ronnie Anderson at 8pm,
Totally with you on that. Let’s get the referendum before 29th March. Then little England will be free to do on its own whatever it pleases outside the EU.
Hamish100 says:
21 January, 2019 at 6:00 pm
“May seems to have forgotten that there was already a previous referendum re the EU (eec)”
Wasn’t that about joining rather than leaving?
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 3:06 pm
The problem with assuming a need for over 50% of the vote in a GE is that it simply does not happen with any regularity.
————–
re reading my post, i may have not been clear enough.
ge’s are won and lost on the no of mps elected, getting 50%+1 mp is all that is required, this has always been the case.
but my point about % of votes as @pc made clear, in 2015 snp+greens = 52%.
I could also add that 2,25 m snp voters (62% on an 85%) is 50% of the entire electorate.
there are different levels of winning, each level more emphatic that the one before and more difficult to refuse. indeed, the only reason i mention the 50% of the vote is because currently, the only argument the unionists have against granting a s30 is because support for indy is presently less than 50% (or so they say) I have no doubt we will win a majority of mps in this ge, but i believe there is a possibility we could hit 52/55%.
in such a case, it could well be argued that there is no need for a s30.??
leaving the eu will be disasterous for scotland, i would think support for indy will be in the 70%+ after 2 weeks of tattie soup , the plebs will be revolting by then. but will we need to wait until we are physically dragged out of the eu before we see a swing towards yes/snp? maybe not. i think we will see clarity in the next 10 days, we wont know what brexit is but we will know what it isnt.
– the peoplesvote/revokea50/sm&cu will all die the death due to lack of support.
-treezas deal will also fail, but she may succeed in forcing it onto the tory ge manifesto so it wont be completely dead. good for scot tories, bad for english tories. if she fails to do this it will be no deal and the reverse will be true
– delay a50 till june will pass. good
-then we will know whether brexit will be corbyns havers are us deal, or treezas deal/no deal.
the polls could start turning in our favour at that point, risky, but worth considering
I wasn’t much good at Algebra at school and I’ve never used it since I left either ! I’m sure there’s an Algebra equation for May’s new plan B
Plan A +(NOTHING) = Plan B
OR
Plan B = Plan A +(more lies)
@Ben Madigan
Theresa May won’t deploy troops in Scotland the risks are too great
1 Alienate Scotland forever
2 Condemnation from the rest of the world
3 Probable UN and EU sanctions
4 The SDF will become active then you can forget about the odd drone it’ll be full halt to Englands infrastructure, nothing will move, the days of N Irelands pipe bombs and kneecapping are long gone, technology is the weapon of the small country now, if your planes and boats and trains don’t move neither does your money
They have been warned and they know it
Re Nicola meeting May
The perfect response from the First Minister, to the prime minister’s invitation, would be “now is not the time”. These talks are to window dress the charade of pretending there is any alternative to her plan.
A second EU referendum would remove any logic to the denying of indyref2 so they won’t go down that route.
For those reasons, it’s May’s Titanic hitting the ‘No Deal” iceberg. The skies are darkening towards the impending ‘perfect storm’ of opportunity for independence.
I agree that Mrs May is stalling for time, and is involving the SNP in talks only as a means of delaying any move towards a Section 30 claim. She fully intends to damage the governance of Scotland once she wins a Brexit deal or has no deal.
The game is afoot as Holmes stated, but I am pretty confident Nicola must identify a delaying tactic when she sees one.
People do not delay events for no reason.
Can you picture it?
International Court of Justice:
Scottish Govt: the people of Scotland have been denied self-determination.
Judge: you weren’t allowed to hold free democratic elections? People are denied the vote?
Scot Govt: Elections are allowed and there is universal suffrage and secret ballots but, we didnae want to risk MP or MSP seats to seek independence, so we decided on an optional extra choice in our manifesto: indyref whenever we want to.
Judge: so the people weren’t denied the opportunity to seek independence via free fair democratic elections?
Scot Govt: No, but we wanted to hold an indyref as well.
Judge: Well, we’d all like our cake and to eat it but, unfortunately the real world does not work like that.
Case dismissed.
The Scot Govt’s legal case would look even more incompetent than their defence in the Alex Salmond case.
No more than a week to go I reckon before all our ears prick up and a very loud and simultaneous shout of *!Yaaaas ya Beauty*! will be heard across the land, and the men will join in as well
Is there a BOGOF planned for Ann Summers Dr Jim?
😉
Schrodinger,
Your tenacity and depth of argument is admirable, but really, the notion that winning the largest number of MPs, may somehow not be legitimate, but with over 50% of the vote it would be is really akin to clutching at straws.
I sometimes find it bizarre the lengths people go to on here, to over complicate the concept of winning. The fact is, that Westminster is not going to give a section 30, so it really doesn’t matter. The SNP could win every single MP seat in Scotland and it would make no difference. They already have the overwhelming majority of Mp’s, and more than double the number of MSP’s than their nearest competitor in the Scots Parliament. Raising the bar any further is just self-defeating nonsense.
The Scottish government has a triple electoral mandate already to call a referendum, they do not need another one, or a ‘more convincing’ one. Westminster will never voluntarily give a section 30 again. In that context it is soon time for the SNP to ‘put up or shut up’ with regards to indyref. Either they stand up for what they believe in, or stand on the sidelines whining, while Scotland is forcible removed from the EU against its wishes.
They already have a clear democratic mandate. Time to start fighting. Westminster understands nothing else. Of course Westminster will make it difficult, of course they will say Scotland can’t, and so on, but that is what they will always do. They have been doing the same for over 300 years, so we should not be surprised, and it should definitely not put us off.
We simply cannot sit by and watch Scotland forcibly dragged out the EU wholly and completely against its wishes and against its best interests. It really will not do.
@defo
You think there aren’t such people?
Scotland’s – Claim of Right Act 1689 states: “That the sending of an army in a hostile manner upon any part of Scotland in peacetime is contrary to law”
link to caltonjock.com
The Black and Tans were raised in Ireland from men not enlisted. A vicious forerunner of the Home Guard. Troops sent in might have been, however slightly, less prone to violence.
I’m of the mind that Nicola has not been ‘waiting’ to see what May will do next at all. Nicola has been holding off to allow the demand amongst the people for another Indyref to reach such a fevour pitch that when she calls it the sheer wave of action by those who have been waiting for the signal will be tsunami like.
It matters not a jot what May or the Tories do now. The Yes movement is far better prepared this time. This time to combat the fear and lies spread by the BBC and the complicit press….the gloves come off.
Orri dont talk shit Scots were enlisted from Maryhill barracks for the Black & Tans
We’ll not see 1919 again
Theresa May might want to do such a stupid thing but the HOC parliament would stop her because the ramifications of that stupidity would for sure see an end to any possible future for any precious union and see her right out of office swept away by men in white coats
Cyber-corroboree at 847 pm
I think that may well be part of it. A good idea if it is. I do think we are now at that time, or within a week or so.
Colin Alexander at 8.27
No. I can’t picture it. Fanciful condescending
and convoluted nonsense predicated on an assumption that the stupid S N P has no grasp of legal issues despite being served by significant number of lawyers.
Dave McEwan Hill at 851pm,
Aye, totally agree. An interesting thing was the appearance of Joanna Cherry on University Challenge around christmas time, representing Edinburgh University. In the intro by paxman, he said words to the effect that she had been listed as one of the top Scottish QC’s. A very smart, and impressive lady. And she is on our side.
Those makin’ mane about SNP IndyRef2 ‘dithering’ should heed Ian Blackford’s words today.
He rightly called out Theresa May’s plans for the lunacy they are.
He then said this to the BBC: “In Scotland, we have another choice.
“We did not vote for Brexit and we will not be dragged out of Europe by a Tory government we did not vote for.
“We might not be able to save the UK, but we can save Scotland.
“We have an escape route from the chaos of Brexit – an independent Scotland.”
That statement is ice-cold in its clarity. No wriggle room, no get-out clause.
And it carries within it an implicit challenge – by whatever means, the SNP – and by extension the Yes movement – will ‘do or dee’ to keep Scotland in the EU.
Every day that passes lessens the chance of a General Election or EuroRef2 – not that they were high to begin with.
And as I have suggested before, I have scanty confidence in our English neighbours suddendly rushing back to Mother Europe saying, ‘we were wrong, please give us another chance.’
Au contraire. The anti-foreigner poison has seeped even further under the door to spread contagion further.
England right now is like something out of The Walking Dead: a zombie army of rabid Brexiteers gradually storming the citadels of reason and sanity.
Not so in Scotland. Public opinion in our country now stands at 70-30 pro-EU, according to the latest polls.
So what do we do? We wait. And prepare, and persuade and convert.
Then we fight. And then we win. God willing, with Europe’s fair wind in our sails.
Ian Blackford’s words cannot be unsaid. They are a pledge. And they will be fulfilled.
As for Joyce MacMillan’s recent spoutings, the Duke of Hamilton springs to mind. Or I am being a little harsh?
CC @8.47pm
What does that actually mean though!?
Seriously, what is behind the rather stereotypical but vague call to arms that so often gets trotted out on these pages?
Bring it on…
The gloves are off…
Ready for the fight…
Don’t want to piss on too many strawberries here but it seems to me everytime the SG has gone on the offensive in the last few years they’ve been slapped down with depressing ease by WM.
Caution and diligence (and very probably no small degree of compromise) will be necessary from here on in to achieve our final goal.
Fighting talk just makes us look a bit daft.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Ms McEntee said: “What we can’t do and what we won’t do, because we have not throughout this entire process, is engage in any kind of bilateral negotiations with the DUP or any other political party in Northern Ireland or the UK.
“This is a negotiation between the EU and the UK”.
I’ll just leave this here . Tereza dictates not talk .
@Ronnie Anderson,
Scots did indeed join the black and tans who were notorious for reprisals against civilians. Far worse were the Auxiliaries, who comprised of ex officers of the British Army. It was they who formed murder squads, and committed acts often attributed to the Black and Tans.
Their remit was to hunt down or assassinate Irish Republican members or sympathisers by fair means or foul.
Just read a comment on Moon of Alabama which sums up the difficulty we are all having in believing anything emanating from Westminster:
link to tinyurl.com
Brexit is all about England and the survival of the English nation and their capital city London.
ANYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.
Any damage done to Scotland Wales and N Ireland can be classed as collateral damage.
As long as the English Establishment lives on.
Bob Mack thanks Bob the british army even recruited in prisons for the B&Ts
@ Heart of Galloway. And the idea of there only being a few weeks left before either a GE or a second EU ref could be called is music to the Yes movement’s ear.
It’s May’s options that are quickly disappearing. Her only hope is to get to the 29th without a deal being agreed upon.
It is only the event of a ‘No deal’ that gives her the right to ignore the Irish backstop. Furthermore, it gives her quicker access to try and shut down the Scottish parliament.
She knows and sees that if she can delay until then the Tories might still have a chance of saving their huge reserves of ill gotten gain and perhaps the pretence of her precious union (which we all now know is colonial England all but in name).
Nicola should indeed tell May that “Now is not the time” for any further meetings. Instead, she should tell her to go back to her corner and be prepared to come out fighting.
Can you picture it?
The Court of King Bruce:
The Jester complete with his Hat, his antics fail to impress, and Bruce says:
“That really is rock all fun. But it reminds me, I need to make sure of keeping my EEZ intact for future generations to enjoy the oil wealth so we need someone to scale Rockall and stay there forever. Off you go, Fool”.
O/T
The Glasgow Kiss is now an ‘official’ WWE move thanks to Ayrshire wrestler
link to glasgowlive.co.uk
We’re famous, at last,lol.
@schrodingers cat.
Which part of Nicola saying indyref announcement “in next few weeks” sounds like June ?
Announcement soon (before march 29th) of indyref2 and dare WM to say no section 30.
If treeza prevaricates, Nicola schools treeza on what a Plan B looks like.
The Rev. on his twitter feed, refers to Wes Streeting MP as a balloon. Since Mr Streeting appears to be nothing more than “lobby fodder,” the Rev. may well be correct.
However, in suggesting Scotland disentangling herself from the Treaty of Union will be a damned sight harder than the UK leaving the EU, I think Mr Streeting is correct.
This is simply because, the UK Government, as they demonstrated in the EU negotiations, are not honest negotiators and they will surely try every dirty, dishonest and underhand trick in their considerable armament to hold Scotland fast.
They will not negotiate honestly with Scotland, and, that in itself will make Independence harder to achieve, but, I am confident, achieved, it will be.
Re Black and tans, had a discussion with some old scots bike racers who were rememising about racing in Northern Ireland in the fifties, somehow discussion moved on to the Easter Uprising, i got tore into the Black and Tans and one of the guys from Ayrshire said my dad was an officer in the Black and Tans, end of discussion 🙂 another time about 30 yearsago I was kilted up in Dublin for the rugby , few of us were in this snug in a pub and Bloke came up to me and whispered in my ear “ if you want to leave hear alive take off your hat” (a tam o shanter) i asked what the problem, he said thats what the Black and Tans wore. Never wore that bunnet again 🙂
@Meg merrilees
That sub was tracking a Russian sub at a distance of 200 nautical miles, delighted with itself. Ping … ping … ping
…
PING PING PING PING
“That must be a bloody big sub and it’s surfaced, let’s just pop up and have a look. Up periscope. OH SHIT“
Hi Socrates MacSporran.
Your 9:45pm post.
Your last sentence. You have a fine command of the language, iye?
Hat’s off…
8=)
Can/could the scottish gov call a snap election in Scotland with an Snp majority a mandate to dissolve the union?. Would this be allowed/acceptable??.
Hey, Bobp, yer dribbling !
Why the feck would we need a Holyrood election (designed to AVOID a majority) when we ALREADY HAVE A MANDATE ?
No,i’m not dribbling. I just asked a question.
@Essexexile.
It would be interesting to get your take on where the SG has been slapped down with depressing ease. No Daily mail headlines, please
Some fantastic comments and links on here tonight. Great stuff.
Anyway, I’ve missed the news, etc, but from what I can make out on here Plan B is actually Plan A and Big T is now trying to get the fascist Brexiteers and DUP bigots onside to push through her AB or BA plan by sorting out the backstop fiasco to their satisfaction? Is that right? If so how is she going to do that? I thought the EU had told her, repeatedly, no mitigation of the backstop agreement? She’s also ruling out an EuRef2 because she’s feart it’ll encourage Nicola to announce IndyRef2 which could break up the “precious” Union; instead of Brexit doing so? She also wants to meet up with Nicola AFTER her deal gets passed? Would that be a no CU/SM deal? If her deal does get passed, Nicola should meet up with her at No 10, lean forward, grind her 6 inch stiletto heel right into her foot and whisper, “Now IS the time. Section 30 order or advisory Ref / UN.” Then she should walk outside and make her announcement, that is that following two and a half years (300 odd) of the Scots being blindfolded, bound and gagged their voices will now be heard. And more of course, facts, whilst she has their undivided attention. And on that note our 35 MP’s should march out of Westminster, join Nicola and head home to Scotland to join the Indyref2 campaign. Job done and dusted, lol.
Yesindy2ref @2148 when i was a lad in the RAF got posted to the radar station at RAF Troodos in Cyprus , was getting shown what went on there and wasmonitoring a fighter controller (officer) vectoring a phantom onto a Victor which was playing at being a rusky bomber, he kept ontelling it to turnto port, getting more shrill everytime he said turnto port, im watching the radar screen and this dot which was the phantom was going round in circles, eventually a lowly senior aircraftsman said Sir, thats a 707 going into Cairo your looking at:) I nearly wet myself. Yes ladies and gentlemen thats the best Military in the World in action.
Boph- diversion
Robert Louis says:
Schrodinger,
Your tenacity and depth of argument is admirable, but really, the notion that winning the largest number of MPs, may somehow not be legitimate, but with over 50% of the vote it would be is really akin to clutching at straws.
———–
that isnt what i said, in 2015/2017 ge, we won the majority of mps, this wasnt enough to bring about indy because……… we didnt campaign for indy in either of these ge’s. it wasnt in the snp manifesto
what I am proposing is that we should consider doing so in this ge. if there is no s30 for an indyref2, we could revert to the previous method of winning indy, ie a simple majority of mps, the point i made about % of the vote isnt conditional, it never has been. I merely pointed out that getting +50% is possible, and if it happens it would make it even more difficult for wm to refuse us
————-
I sometimes find it bizarre the lengths people go to on here, to over complicate the concept of winning. The fact is, that Westminster is not going to give a section 30, so it really doesn’t matter. The SNP could win every single MP seat in Scotland and it would make no difference. They already have the overwhelming majority of Mp’s, and more than double the number of MSP’s than their nearest competitor in the Scots Parliament. Raising the bar any further is just self-defeating nonsense.
————————
I cant see why you think I am raising the bar, the snp will win a majority of mps in this ge, no question, I am merely saying that we should consider campaigning directly on indy in this ge. this is enough to win indy. I am no lawyer, but I think we would have the law on our side and could win any subsequent case
———————————————
The Scottish government has a triple electoral mandate already to call a referendum, they do not need another one, or a ‘more convincing’ one.
———–
this is a risk, if we campaign on indy in this ge, the unionist could claim it superceded previous triple lock mandates.
but i have no doubt we will win a majority of mps???
——-
Westminster will never voluntarily give a section 30 again.
————-
then we have the options of an indyref2 without a s30, a ge or a he. I know no other scotland wide voting methods
————
In that context it is soon time for the SNP to ‘put up or shut up’ with regards to indyref. Either they stand up for what they believe in, or stand on the sidelines whining, while Scotland is forcible removed from the EU against its wishes.
They already have a clear democratic mandate. Time to start fighting. Westminster understands nothing else. Of course Westminster will make it difficult, of course they will say Scotland can’t, and so on, but that is what they will always do. They have been doing the same for over 300 years, so we should not be surprised, and it should definitely not put us off.
We simply cannot sit by and watch Scotland forcibly dragged out the EU wholly and completely against its wishes and against its best interests. It really will not do.
—————-
nice speech, high on rhetoric, low on any actual suggestions of how.
indy will come via a ge/he or indyref with or without a s30/ udi or open conflict.their are no other options.
when you say start fighting. are you suggesting actual warfare? if not, what?
O/T . One seriously pissed of machine man link to facebook.com
Hi from Tassie:
If it was the intention of the “establishment” in Westminster to suppress the growth of the wish in Scotland for a break in the union with England, they have failed miserably and must now realise it. Whether Brexit has been the trigger or not, the majority in Scotland must have woken up to the fact that the union with England will never work for Scotland and that Scotland can do so much better whether in the EU or out.
I must smile at the karma of it all – what you sow you reap! It is a different world now and the bully boys will not triumph for much longer hopefully.
Come on Scotland march forward to a new future with pride!
Very best wishes and thanks to all the regular wingers for Independence and particularly to Robert Peffers, Nana, Liz, Petra and all the others who share their wise thoughts on line and thereby doing so much for Scottish Independence. The Dream will never die!
Black and Tans.
It’s worth remembering that some estimates put the number of deaths in the Irish Civil War after independence (hard core Rep dissidents versus Treaty / Free Staters) was double the number killed when fighting the British authorities from 1916-21. The Civil War was a dirty affair too with summary executions.
There is a tendency to play down the post independence violence because it’s a more palatable political agenda to focus on the ‘fight for freedom’.
The world is not a simple place. Violence will beget violence. And history is written by the winners.
There is much about Irish history Scotland must not re-run!
CC
@9.31
Aye, I think Wednesday’s tete-a-tete between NS and TM may be the last this side of IndyRef2. Maybe forever.
In all likelihood, the outcome will amount to a hill of beans unless one or t’ither throws a curve ball that none of us saw coming *apologies for the Americanisms*.
Nicola will come out saying ‘well, that was a waste of time because Scotland was offered hee-haw’ while May will blame the intransigent Nats. Guess whose side the meeja will take?
No, the SNP has been unequivocal in its preparedness to invoke Scottish popular sovereignty when the chips are down.
And I believe this stance goes far deeper than mere words.
Why? Because the Scottish National Party not knowing EXACTLY what steps to take when MAY refuses Section 30 consent is as inconceivable as May ‘granting’ it.
@Lenny Hartley
Ouch!
Schrodingers cat. Thats the point i was trying to get an answer to, before the usual f**kwits jumped on me.
Petra great idea for Nicola to announce the new Referendum to regain our independence in front of Number 10. I think our MP’s walking out at the same time would be brilliant, the Britnats would choke on their tea. Hears hoping:)
Personally I can’t see a UKGE until after E-Day, since it only risks May further, but one possible off-the-wall preemptive Plan B for the SG might be to have all SNP MPs resign and stand for re-election on an independence ticket.
The obvious drawback would be that the MPs of other parties would be very unlikely to follow suit, even if Labour and the LibDems were also thwarted in their own immediate ambitions. They are pretty shameless. (Might make Labour look even more hypocritical, mind!)
But although that reduced set of elections alone would be very unlikely to accumulate enough votes to add up to more than 50% of the Scottish electorate (since normally that’s a very big ask even over the whole), pro-rata it might be sufficient to demonstrate popular support for IR2.
Tenuous, but still…
(Though it might alone be sufficient to win a delay to Art.50 from the EU27.)
Just a thought…
Any FM with a mandate for an indyref can:
a) Call it and win
b) Call it and lose
c) Not call it at all
The current FM is a canny woman. I have no doubt she knows history will judge her whatever happens & c is even worse than b.
RJS. Thank you, that answers my question at 9.50pm
Illegal Partition of Ireland 1922
Universal Suffrage 1928
‘It was unclear what changes to the backstop May hopes to secure, but the Tory backbencher Andrew Murrison is understood to be in advanced discussions about tabling an amendment time-limiting the backstop, after hearing May tell the Commons that “the length of the backstop was being actively considered”.
Should he decide to table an amendment, it may call for a five-year limit as suggested by the Polish foreign minister earlier on Monday…’
From front page ’roundup’ main article on Guardian online. (naw ahm no archiving it or even putting it up…shower of shite that paper, can’t even write there fucking news as it is…properly)
This is what they are banking on imv. There’s always got to be something they think they can get a away with and this would seem to logically be it. If they can get a time limit from EU27 and set the cat amongst the pigeons, along the lines of: ‘if the Polish foreign minister’ suggests it’, it creates a crack in the ‘united EU27 front’ narrative, that is where Tories excel themselves at being the cunning little stunts that they are.
They need to buy Scotland off, if they can get their Withdrawal vote through wi this sneaky move, they need to ‘test the waters’, imv it’s why they want a wee chat wi Nic.
Yes I’m aware they are going on about listening to others Brexit, but as has been pointed out further up thread, this is in relation to ‘after’ the Withdrawal bill goes through.
Mark my words, Tories are the most low based life form on earth and there is nothing they will not stoop to, to get their way.
Jeez Ronnie…he just waanted his wages…poor fucker.
And if anybody was to be the last uk PM, Teresa May is just about as best qualified a candidate as there could ever be.
schrodingers cat @ 22:13:
Now what GE would that be? You criticise others for a lack of plan, but yours is built on wishful thinking and pure thin air, since you expect St. Theresa to somehow graciously provide you with an opportunity that offers her and her party no advantage whatever.
Au contraire, since she is in fact personally committed to standing down for the next general election. So how much time does there remain to elect a new Tory leader? It could even be the step that triggers the avalanche of the presently-imminent Tory split.
Afterwards, very likely, in the hope of cleaning up after passing the milestone of Brexit, but there is no realistic prospect whatever of a UKGE before E-Day. So we had damn well have a better plan of action than your endlessly-repeated airily-assumed early-GE pie-in-the-sky.
I didn’t realise the Martin Luther King was one of the original proponents of a citizens income…nay wunner they assassinated them. Just makes you realise that what we are up against has aye been the way of the ‘establishment’, aka the rich and powerful have always made sure their status sticks.
‘I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective — the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income…. We are likely to find that the problems of housing and education, instead of preceding the elimination of poverty, will themselves be affected if poverty is first abolished.’ MLK
From a handful of excerpts from his writings, published today in the Washington Post:
link to washingtonpost.com
Sorry for the o/t, or if it’s been mentioned before.
In regards to the bbc’s anti snp attack on two people catching a pigeon related disease at Glasgow’s queen Elizabeth hospital.
Something just didn’t sit right with me on the couple, Graham & Sophie Fyfe, being interviewed on mis reporting Scotland.
A quick search on Facebook for Sophie fyfe soon made me realise what was up.
Profile picture of the couple with a backdrop of a union jack with the words ‘100% British’ written across the backdrop. The whole page is festooned with union jackery.
Although the facts of the case were true, two people did contract this pigeon related disease, it was her comment that she had written to the SG and the SG saying that they’d hadn’t received a letter from her that got my suspicions tingling.
The media up to their old tricks.
K1 aye another company going tits up & leaving the workforce destitute , pity the guys going to be picking up Porridge coupons along with bed n board .
@ Dave McEwan Hill
Rather than arguing the toss with you, I would say this: There are principles that self determination should be just that, with no outside interference.
In 2014, was that the case? Were the BBC, Ed Milliband, Cameron and Clegg and Mirror Group Newspapers and the other media outlets Scottish?
The UK Govt who sent pro-UK brochures to every house address in Scotland, was it Scottish?
Are the Labour Party, Conservative and Unionist Party and Liberal Democrat Party, Scottish political parties?
Just how free from external interference was that referendum and how free from external interference would indyref2 be?
Hmmm.
Mary miles @ 10.15
Hi Mary
Thanks for the kind word’s and for caring enough to check back in to Wing’s. It really dose the heart good to know that people out with Scotland care..
You once asked if you could do anything to help!
Well as it happens there’s an EU petition that you could sign and you could also encourage anyone that you can think of to sign too… It’s open to people Worldwide and you don’t have to be in Europe or the EU to sign it.
I’m sorry I don’t know how to link to it,but I’m pretty sure if you check back in the next couple of hours some kind Winger will put up the link….
Anyhoo…. Take care of you and Happy New Year to you and yours X
Ronnie, K1 or others
Can you stick up a link to the EU Petition for Mary miles @ 10.15 please?
And wish granted:
This petition is a wee bit more involved than bog standard ones, as you have to register with the portal. Very straight forward form. You will create a user name and password for the site on that same form. Once submitted, you will receive (2-7 mins) an email with a link that takes you back to the home page of the portal.
Simply choose ‘support petition’ above welcome message on home page and enter this reference number: 0701/2018
This will take you to Martin’s petition, you may then be asked to ‘sign in’, do so with user name and password that you set up in registration form, then when you’re signed in click bottom right to support petition. (Don’t worry if it takes you back to the home page after signing in again, just click ‘support petition’ and re enter above ref number.)
‘That the European Parliament votes to support Scotland’s independent membership of the EU’
link to petiport.secure.europarl.europa.eu
Aye and it might serve the politicians well to remember that for that one guy running amok on his wee digger in Liverpool there are hunderds of thousands of the same mind at present. The UK is fast becoming a political tinder box.
It’s common knowledge that any good employer will conduct an exit interview with an employee who has chosen to leave in an attempt to uncover any grievances that employee might have had. The HR department use this information to resolve any issues that might have been identified to avoid other employees suffering the same fate.
It’s painfully obvious Westminster paid no heed to the many countries that chose to leave their ‘Empire’. No exit interview or review was conducted with those countries to determine why they left. As a result they kept leaving and the Empire crumbled. Even if they had listened to the people of Scotland five years ago they would not be in this mess.
The Liverpool digger man is an apt metaphor for the present state of the UK.
I know that seemed affy quick, it’s cause I had already sent it to others through email and felt the need to explain the process. (so it wis just copy and paste job right now) 😉
Thanks K1…. Yer a star..
What a laugh. Farce. STV was reporting from NIreland and stating that the DUP is not the only party in NIreland and doesn’t represent everyone. No mention that they are not representing the remain majority at all. Imagine that! One young schoolboy was on the ball. How many more in Ireland feel like him? He said “England and Wales voted to leave. Scotland and NIreland voted to remain but our voices aren’t being heard.” Come to think of it other than Bertie’s fishermen no one in Scotland seems to get interviewed at all on Brexit. In fact Scotland doesn’t even seem to exist anymore, even for STV. Brigadoon? Not for much longer.
…………………
I came across a reader’s letter in the Sunday National and one section of his letter really made an impression on me, especially as I had been trying to figure out why I had felt quite disconcerted after watching two individuals “speaking” in the Commons recently.
He, a Mr Mitchell, said, “Two particular members of the front bench on the Government side stood out. Geoffrey Cox, Attorney General, and the inevitable Michael Gove. There they stood at the Dispatch Box ranting, raving and gesticulating, in a manner which was quite insulting to the serious situation facing all the people of these islands. Their performance reminded me all too vividly of the oft-repeated performances of the participants of the Nuremburg Rallies of the mid-1930’s. Histrionics about anything and everything with no relevance whatsoever to the plight in which we presently find ourselves.”
Nazi mindset, Nazi nature and now giving themselves away with their Nazi-type facial expressions and body language.
liz g aye she’s quick on the trigger ah wiz hivin ah coffee break lol
Agreed on the 2 dense Unionist stooges that the BBC were just lucky enough to stumble across.
They didn’t look like they could write and never capable of raising a possibility of air borne infections from pigeons.
Last time the BBC were lucky enough to bump into another Unionist with a track record who claimed malpractice against the hospital for some form of leg injury treatment.
The incident had occurred some time ago in the past but luckily he was in the Hospital Café when the Beep Propaganda team arrived?
So what do the Beeb Agents do when they arrive, walk around with a mega phone requesting participants with any SNP Bad stories-truth not required?
Do patients unhappy with their treatment at the hospital have days out to come and use their café?
The Beep obviously have a network of these for hire Unionists to fill these Fake News Specials and Kaye Phone in’s and Question Time plants.
Unionist propaganda is incessant and relentless, devoid of morals and oblivious to reality.
Colin Alexander @11.02pm
Another good post. Absolutely no SNP baaad in this post. Perhaps you are turning over a new leaf.
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 9:43 pm
@schrodingers cat.
Which part of Nicola saying indyref announcement “in next few weeks” sounds like June ?
———————–
events dear boy, events
we are not in charge of our own destiny, more’s the pity. thats what we really lost in 2014. play the game
Essexexile@9.02pm
Dr Doom strikes again.
Essexexile @7.00pm
Dr Doom goes for it again.
@ Old Pete at 10:33pm …….. “Nicola announcement outside Number 10.”
If she, Nicola, felt that it was the end of the road (but will it be?) Old Pete that’s exactly what she should do. Stand and read out a long list of grievances from the way we have been treated, to them robbing us blind to subsidise them, to how rich we are as a country, McCrone Report, to the Brexit impact for us and additionally being disadvantaged if there is a special deal for NIreland. Cram it ALL in, because she might not get another chance to do so. And then a wee text (FREEDOM) to Iain Blackford at the end of her speech as a rallying call for them all to march out. Leave them, the ignorant parasites with their gobs hanging open, to it in the antiquated House of Ill-repute to shout, bray and slaver amongst themselves for as long as that place exists. It’s absolutely rotten to the core and why the around 30 million adults in England put up with this is beyond me. The Mother of all Parliaments, FGS. British or rather English democracy and they don’t even have a written Constitution: Just make it up as they go along. And no written Constitution of course because they can’t incorporate our laws with theirs. That alone speaks volumes and how it must have stuck in their craw that they haven’t been able to do one whit about it over the last 300 years other than trying to repress, suppress and brainwash us all into believing that we were their inferiors. The very fact that Scots living in the 14th century (with examples later) had the wits to do something then that protects us to this very day is also amazing, imo.
And just to add that they, the English Tories and probably Labour too, don’t “get” us, as is exemplified in T May wanting to talk to Nicola AFTER her deal gets through, as she thinks, just beggars belief. Nicola Sturgeon will be raging and in fact her astrology right now highlights the planet Uranus squaring Mars and you can’t get any angrier, more livid, than that. Look out Treeza.
Oh well my post has gone into moderation, so I’ll try changing one word.
……………….
@ Old Pete at 10:33pm …….. “Nicola announcement outside Number 10.”
If she, Nicola, felt that it was the end of the road (but will it be?) Old Pete that’s exactly what she should do. Stand and read out a long list of grievances from the way we have been treated, to them robbing us blind to subsidise them, to how rich we are as a country, McCrone Report, to the Brexit impact for us and additionally being disadvantaged if there is a special deal for NIreland. Cram it ALL in, because she might not get another chance to do so. And then a wee text (FREEDOM) to Iain Blackford at the end of her speech as a rallying call for them all to march out. Leave them, the ignorant parasites with their gobs hanging open, to it in the antiquated House of Ill-repute to shout, bray and slaver amongst themselves for as long as that place exists. It’s absolutely rotten to the core and why the around 30 million adults in England put up with this is beyond me. The Mother of all Parliaments, FGS. British or rather English democracy and they don’t even have a written Constitution: Just make it up as they go along. And no written Constitution of course because they can’t incorporate our laws with theirs. That alone speaks volumes and how it must have stuck in their craw that they haven’t been able to do one whit about it over the last 300 years other than trying to repress, suppress and brainwash us all into believing that we were their inferiors. The very fact that Scots living in the 14th century (with examples later) had the wits to do something then that protects us to this very day is also amazing, imo.
And just to add that they, the English Tories and probably Labour too, don’t “get” us, as is exemplified in T May wanting to talk to Nicola AFTER her deal gets through, as she thinks, just beggars belief. Nicola Sturgeon will be raging and in fact her astrology right now highlights the planet Ur*nus squaring Mars and you can’t get any angrier, more livid, than that. Look out Treeza.
Jezza@11.51am
I never said you were a troll. Never thought you were.
You are however a cheeky bugger who was incapable of answering my question properly.
WGD:- …. “Living in a 1970’s Concept Album.”
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Cubby
So glad I’m off your troll list.
Why do you think I am cheeky and what was your question???
The more I read online comments on various articles from the msm, whether here or say the states, washington post or nytimes wrt brexit, the more I see this ‘pattern’ emerging in recent months.
The comments start quite intelligently as people discuss the atl but within sometimes just 10 mins there will be someone that just comes btl and ‘sounds’ exactly like the same person whether from a guard article or the u.s. ones, same rhetoric, same condescension, same ad hominens, same ‘tone’ in all their comments and jumping in on ‘any’ commenter to get their oar in.
It’s over the top reactionary, totally doesn’t ‘feel’ like a ‘real’ person or anyone who would really think in the terms that they comment? A ‘rubbishing’ of ‘others’ is the central ‘trait’ of those commenters.
It’s weird, seen it on here too recently.
Is it literally the same organised bunch of people doing this? Because it is so obvious to anyone with even a ounce of savvy that this is co ordinated.
77th you’re a bunch of fucking arses who can’t do ‘covert’.
The ones we really have to watch are the long term sleepers, they are in wi the bricks…hope there’s naebdy here suddenly huvin weans wi wingers you lot 😉
Bobp says:
21 January, 2019 at 10:01 pm
No,i’m not dribbling. I just asked a question.
……..
Which i answered.
…..
Why the feck would we need a Holyrood election (designed to AVOID a majority) when we ALREADY HAVE A MANDATE ?
……..
Even threw in a free question back at ye, within the answer.
You gonna answer that ?
……
And btw…this:
Bobp says:
21 January, 2019 at 10:20 pm
Thats the point i was trying to get an answer to, before the usual f**kwits jumped on me.
……..
Person abuse like this is not too clever around here these days.
Ask mac..oh wait..!
Or maybe mike…oh wait..!
mike’s last words were pure self fulfilling prophecy writ on a big ‘ol irony checkpad, thought K1 was going to have a fit !!(bottom end of last thread if anyone wants a genuine laugh out loud moment.
Och it was just too funny geeo….his bubble burst within moments. Comic timing Rev’s response. Needed a good laugh 🙂
I think it may already have been suggested but i would love it if Nicola walked out of No. 10 tomorrow night, right up to those TV cameras and said:
” Now is the time for Scottish Votes for Scottish Laws” .
SVSL is not as easy to say as EVEL but you get my drift!
It would be a corker of a headline if she announces Indy Ref 2 tmrw.
However, I still think the time’s not right because, T May could do a ‘u’-turn and revoke Article 50 or agree to remove No Deal.
No, I think we have to go a bit further along the track yet before we can bail out.
Nicola Sturgeon exits No10 and walks over to the waiting gathered press desperate for a soundbite and says “I’ve just had yet another non constructive meeting with the Prime Minister and can confirm in all honesty that the Wummin’s a total baw heid and Baam of the highest calibre and she couldnae run a minoge, any questions?”
The entire 27 countries of the EU, the Irish, the Welsh, the Scots, all speaking the English language for the benefit of the English politicians and they still don’t understand their own language
alexicon
Checked Facebook.
Jeez! Is this who they interviewed?
Scroll through and she’s a Tommy Robinson fan!
Sturgeon walks outside and says to the press “We quit”
“Are you resgining First Minister?”
“No, I said WE quit. Scotland is out the UK, bye now and thanks for all the pish”.
Dr Jim @2:47
What a very insightful, astute and most wonderfully described observation.
That’s gotta burn.
In fact @Dr Jim that should be made into a meme by Indy Poster Boy, or even a few well placed billboards.
It’s a very powerful and persuasive argument.
@ Dr Jim “The entire 27 countries of the EU, the Irish, the Welsh, the Scots, all speaking the English language for the benefit of the English politicians” – and all we got was Brexit means Brexit. This can be followed by both exclamation and question mark.
‘Belfast Bertie’, Theresa May’s new bestie, interviewed outside No.10. Saving their ‘precious union’.
The media just love the ‘Scottish Fishermen’s Association’, never a mention of West Coast/Clyde Scottish Fishermen and how they feel about Brexit.
@ Shinty ….Bertie.’
Thousands of different types of companies / industries in Scotland Shinty going to be impacted on by Brexit, but you never see them interview anyone other than Bertie and his boys. Reason being it’s the ONLY industry that the Scottish Tories can be “shown” to be supporting and of course they’re not even doing that, as we know. High time that the BBC / STV informed the Scots of the 5 family fisherman cabal (millionaires) that’s ruling the roost in Scotland.
……………………………
@ Dr Jim at 2:38am …….
Ha ha ha. If only!
……………………….
‘When things go pear shaped the aide resigns not the Minister so what’s different about Leslie.Evans?’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Just to add to my earlier at 254am.
If this Sophie interviewed is the same as the Sophie on Facebook then is there not a case for a headline re “BBC uses Rightwing Extremists”?
link to m.facebook.com
meg merilees @ 2.23am
Good point about SVSL – Scottish Votes For Scottish Laws.
My understanding of how the HoC works as regards EVEL is that the Scottish MPs don’t have a say on bills covered by EVEL during the “committee stages”; Scottish MPs still get to vote when it comes to the bill formally passing; but, of course, the in-built English majority always ensures, the bill will pass.
Well, we could use that against them, by demanding that the Scottish Grand Committee (SGC) of all 59 Scottish members gets to debate Brexit and its effect on Scotland.
With the in-built SNP majority, the SGC votes NOT to allow Scotland to depart the EU, since Scotland voted No.
At the next stage, however, all the English Leavers rom the three main English parties pile-in and overturn that decision of the SGC, giving all those Proud Scots But and other Unionists up here a very convincing demonstration of exactly why we are an English colony being held in an unfair Union, against our will.
After that, Independence would be a dawdle.
We have to use HoC rules and conventions against them, much more than we currently do. It is such a pity, Alex Salmond, Angus Robertson and yes, Jim Sillars – arguably Scotland’s three best authorities on how to use HoC rules, are not in the Commons, or, out of favour with the SNP hierarchy, at this crucial time.
Alexicon, I had the same thought as you when I saw this pair but not the nous to check them out.
Nothing surprises me about the BBBC or STV . I look forward to the day when all of them are seeking employment elsewhere.
Ronnie, there are days when I feel like that chap!
Jim Sillars seems determined to cry down the SNP and Independence any chance he gets. I have always thought Jim was on the Independence, but recently he seems to have moved against the idea and how the Britnat papers and TV love to highlight this. Jim is a very smart guy, shame he might be remembered as a bitter old man who turned against Independence for Scotland.
May will try to bribe Nicola. Nicola will not have it. May will go into oblivion with her stinking Party. Evel and nasty.
Cameron, Gove, Farague etc are alcoholics. Alcoholics make poor decisions without proper, total abstinence, counselling.
3Million+ migrant permanent status anti Tory voters. The Tories will never get into power again. Apart from the affect of the Brexit shambles causing a recession and making people poorer.
300,000 migrant votes SNP/Independence wins.
Scotland can vote the unionists out within 2+ years. There will be no opposition. SNP/Independence wins.
The complete and utter shambles. The unionists have created. They could not make a bigger mess. Extraordinary ignorance, arrogance and incompetence, .
Johnston, Hunt, Corbyn, Farague, Neil, Fraser, Tomkins, Bruce, etc their families will have to register. Migrants. Get ill, or a conviction, lose their jobs. The spouse not earning £30,000 and out they go. Johnston is a criminal, lazy, liar. Farague will probably be out of a (EU) job just shortly 23rd May? Has he paid back all the EU money that he embezzled. He could end up in jail.
Scotland exports more to the EU and overseas than to the rest of the UK. Plus EU grants, ECB investments, shared Defence costs CAP etc, EU membership gains Scotland £Billions.it costs nothing and brings benefits, Good social Laws and people’s rights. UK takes Scotland’s profits and wastes it. Gross mismanagement Oil & Gas, Fishing, farming totally mismanaged by Westminster for years. UK health & safety Laws not enforced by Westminster causing death and covered up.
UK Union costs Scotland £Billions. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Costs Scotland £Billions.
Scotland is far better out of the UK Union and in the EU, Economically, socially and politically. Leave the unionists to their mess of theur own making.
Will May be discussing the powers being taken back before she goes into oblivion. Questionable?
Scotland will lose £9Billion++ from Brexit, Gain £200Million from fishing short term. The fishermen will continue to overfish. Discard and throw small dead fish back. There will be no fish left. They have to use different fishing methods. Like Norway. They use bigger nets. Better terms and conditions. Youngsters will not go into fishing (hard) when there are other jobs available. The Scottish fishing industry in the NE relies in migrant labour and the EU markets. Brexit will devastate it.
“Giving Goose says:
22 January, 2019 at 7:07 am
Just to add to my earlier at 254am.
If this Sophie interviewed is the same as the Sophie on Facebook then is there not a case for a headline re “BBC uses Rightwing Extremists”?”
This is the exact same Sophie goose.
@Dorothy Devine.
It was when she mentioned Shona Robinson by name that aroused my suspicions.
B & T’s,
My mistake, sorry.
However Wiki says that they came in 2 varieties.
The grunt ex-soldier “good guys” just doing a job. Not the kind that went looking for trouble or to cause it.
The cunt ex-officer “Auxies” who were on a mission.
Given that and the miners strike the probability is high that amongst the genuine Police from the mainland sent to NI there will be Army in fake uniforms sent to cause trouble.
A propaganda coup would be for some young catholic mother just back from maternity leave and probably from Scotland to be the first casuality amongst those brave men and women only doing their job. Would tick all the boxes in trying to play down the drive for independence here.
Meanwhile the laughable suggestion that they’d be seconded only for marching season might actually be serious. Which would then leave a gap in our police force to be filled by more Army in false colours.
If you don’t think kicking off the troubles again is beyond the pale for this Westminster government then you’ve not been paying attention.
Almost forgot,
it’d also give an opportunity to torch and destroy a warehouse supposedly containing either food or medicines that could then be claimed for on insurance. Nasty people your rebel terrorist.
On BBC Parliament channel.
How does someone like Lord Purvis of Tweed get a peerage to become a Baron at the age of 39? What a scandal! £300 per day! Being a true Yellow Tory democrat he is a member of the Commission on Parliamentary Reform.
Thank goodness for that!
Is there a prize on Wings for whoever posts the last comment of the day.
Because there seems to be a bit of rivalry developing between the guys Dr Jim and yesindyref2.
They seem to be fighting for the “And Finally” post of the day.
What tactics do they use?
Is it a case of staying awake longer than his rival?
Or do they set the alarm for 4am?
Interesting times.
I wonder who will win the “And Finally” post later on tonight?
Ian Blackford MP said
We refuse to be dragged out of Europe by a farcical Tory government we did not vote for.
link to twitter.com
Confirmed speakers include: Dr Marsha Scott ( Chief Executive at Scottish Women’s Aid), Cllr. Cecil Meiklejohn, Joanna Cherry QC MP, Jess Smith, Irene Hamilton, Julia Stachurska and our First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon MSP
link to eventbrite.co.uk
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to barrheadboy.com
link to rbs.postach.io
link to peterabell.blog
Electioneering?
Friend in Edinburgh New Town just got these two delivered together
link to twitter.com
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Jezza @1.01am
I do not and never had a troll list. So try and stop your silly accusations.
Still incapable of a sensible reply to my question. So far all you have churned out is your personally abusive comment re paranoi.
link to newsnet.scot
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
Save this
link to dailybusinessgroup.co.uk
link to randompublicjournal.com
link to welfareweekly.com
#JohnPilger:”#BBC Is & Has Long Been The Most Refined Propaganda Services In The World. The BBC is an extension of the established order in this country… it just is,and for it to claim that it isn’t & others are really subverting the State by giving another view is just absurd”
video
link to twitter.com
Will not archive
link to independent.co.uk
link to politicshome.com
From backstop tweaks to no no-deal: possible amendments to May’s next Brexit motion
link to archive.is
link to bloomberg.com
link to infacts.org
1/ Normally I do threads on official documents like legislation, or think tank papers, but today I have been asked to debunk viral online claims about the scary “Lisbon treaty 2022”.
link to threadreaderapp.com
Prince Philip crash victim ‘urged more than ten times to keep quiet by police’
link to archive.is
link to publiclawforeveryone.com
“Reasonable worst case” scenario points to severe food shortages
link to twitter.com
Cross-Channel freight trade ‘could drop by 87%’ under ‘no-deal’ Brexit
link to archive.is
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
link to twitter.com
link to gov.uk
Will not archive
link to stv.tv
link to ukandeu.ac.uk
There is going to be another GE the Tories can lose. It is the only way for them to get out of the mess. Scotland can vote the unionists out.
Geeo 1.11am ” person abuse is not to clever around here these days” Oh i see, you can dish it out but you dont like it back. Typical of all bullies.
link to thenational.scot
A Thread on Hidden Facts About Our Oil (Names withheld)
link to twitter.com
CCHQ put on election footing and told it needs to have the ‘resources in place’ in event PM is defeated
link to twitter.com
Well here it is. Confirmation that our pension contributions are being used illegally to pay of Englands national debt.
link to twitter.com
Oh, come on – I’ve been back for *days*. Put something else up will ye, Rev?
@Nana –
I opened your 9.16 about Phil and would urge anyone who wants to see what actual evil looks like to check out that photie of him.
The eyes!?! FFS!
🙁 🙁 🙁
So many Brexit possibilities!
1) May is totally deluded, has lost the plot and thinks her plan will get past WM.
2) May doesn’t want to be seen as U-turning so wants others to take the responsibility and blame for a change of direction towards soft / cancellation / EURef2.
3) May secretly wants it to come down to a choice of her deal versus Brexit delay (with probably EURef2). At this point the swivel eyed right wing hard nuts will back her deal because it is the only Brexit they are going to get. It’s a blindfold Brexit so they may hold out hope of hardening up the trade arrangements later.
4) May desperately wants to be the one to deliver Brexit and doesn’t care if it ends up as a crash and burn no-deal.
Take your pick! And there,s almost certainly other scenarios.
Hard choice on timing for Nicola, but she has to bite the bullet soon and move forward IMO.
Morning Ian.
It’s a shocker right enough, like something out of ‘The hills have eyes’
Perhaps some of my links should come with a health warning 🙂
Stewart McDonald MP says
Don’t be tempted to dismiss this.
Link to the ferret story here
link to twitter.com
‘Planning is a nightmare’: Irish milk firm fears ‘lights out’ after Brexit
link to archive.is
Trump’s former right-hand woman told us what it’s really like to work for him
link to twitter.com
@Ian
Another scary photo here…..shudder!
link to twitter.com
Chris Cairns – Lol.
Chris at 9.52, agreed. In the words of McPhail, he is being furtive, very furtive.
There’s a right ‘bot infection’ and ‘rabid’ attacks underneath Stewart McDonald’s tweet. They are really trying to undermine him at every turn now since the Tommy Robinson incident.
Let’s be vigilant whilst reading btl on tweets and the btl on all msm articles these days, they are in full propaganda mode with the exact same speech patterns and ‘tone’, full of ad hominems and abuse directed against anyone supporting whoever or whatever is being discussed in the atl.
Bit like our recent couple of obvious weirdly familiar ‘sounding’ ones on here.
In terms of ‘tweets’, bots have a lot of numbers after their names and fewer followers than the digits on yer haun.
link to facebook.com
Subsea 7 Mc Phail report .
Cubby
If you are suffering from paranoia then see a specialist.
I’m sure they will be only too happy to help you through this terrible illness you have.
And why not change your name to Ozzy Osborne.
He done alright out of Paranoia.
Nana am no treading in your domain wie ma 10.26 post but ah thought it would compliment GrouseBeaters , an its no aw ma faut wee McGuinness reminded me of it when I shared GBs link on some Yes Pages .
Big Hugs XX.
Morning Ronnie. “my domain” no Ronnie never my domain. I’m grateful to everyone who posts links here, saves my fingers 🙂
Getting ‘This page isn’t available’ when I clicked on your link.
One thing you do notice about the half dozen serial “troll hunters” is that they can give stick out while playing to the crowd,,,but man o man they just can’t take any back.
They just melt when someone has the absolute cheek to answer them back.
It’s my annual ‘hang out a washing and then it snows day’
So I have gone where even Nana fears to tread.
Check out the btl gammon outburst below this report of a ‘rogue ambassador’ tweet.
Oops!
link to archive.is
This is worth a read.
Cameron was warned about ‘stupid referendum’, documentary reveals
Another Tory one.
Revealed: Tory MSP privately raised fears that Fort George would close early
Nana see thats why your the Linker mine diznae work , hope U can correct & repost it Thanks
This mornings answer to Mays problem.
She calls a GE, a lot of her MPs temperately join UKIP, Labour wins, the rest I have said before.
Nana I got that Subsea link fron the League of very Sovereign Scots ( files) , I tried to copy again to no avail .
Ronnie Anderson @ 11.35
That link worked fine for me Ronnie????
Chris Cairns dont U Mr come back oan here efter swanning aboot oan holiday an making demands the Rev an aw us hiv been here keeping the fires burning so’s the pipes dont freeze up lol.
Dinae worry about the pipes Ron, plenty roasters visiting here of late.
🙂
defo ah dey worry aboot the pipes especially the wummins upstairs There’s air in her pipes an feking wakes me up several times a night .
Jezza@10.31am
Now that you have got your childish abuse out there again how about a serious reply to my initial question.
Just a Wee thought – if – and I admit its looking increasingly unlikely –
if, WM calls either a PV or another GE,
And ScotGov decides to have IndyRef 2 on the same day (would save money after all)…
is it possible this would have a neutralising effect on the Holiday Home vote, since they would likely want to use their ‘big’ vote re Brexit at their main home, and would have to nominate one address – or be more likely to be ‘caught out’ if voting twice on the same day?
I suspect its not full proof, especially given postal votes, but in theory, it might prevent quite a lot.
And a second wee thought – what would happen if NS breaks the stalemate, by offering the Scots another People’s Vote on EU membership – along with a vote for IndyRef2.
2 years ago I would have been absolutely dead set against this 2 question Ref…. but if she offers Scotland a PV… just think on the pressure at WM, with English Remainers, to get the same. Its not just the BritNat’s who can divide and conquer.
And think also, of WM’s arguments against it, no, no they would say, Scotland already voted to remain, it doesn’t need another vote. It would highlight again that we are treated like shite.
As for campaigning – no amount of official campaigning could do the damage that WM is currently doing to itself.
Peace and love to all.
@Ronnie
For anyone who can’t see your link, here’s the facebook page for The League of very Sovereign Scots.
link to facebook.com
Last links for now
Good news: Today’s @statisticsONS Labour Market Statistics show that unemployment in Scotland has fallen to 3.6% – the lowest rate on record. Also the first time it has fallen below 100k
link to twitter.com
Donald Tusk on Cameron and the EU ref
link to twitter.com
link to dutchnews.nl
The thing is that as one disrupter realises its time is nearly up, as per the last thread, another one gets up and running ready to take over.
I should have said “is already up and running” and been here for days.
Hi Chris – what about a cartoon then? Or maybe a holiday snap?
I see that the official unemployment rate in Scotland is 3.6% or nearly 4% as the BBC News in Scotland would say.
I wouldn’t read too much into the unemployment figures nana.
UC & the sanction’s inherent have driven people underground/put them off.
As intended, no doubt.
No deal still looking the odds on fav then.
Treeza is running out of can kicking room and there is no consensus to be had, either in or out of parliament. It’s going to be a 6% disaster, or an 8% catastrophe. Them’s the choices on offer (they haven’t altered a jot for yonks now, you know) and both mean massive hardship for the majority for decades.
All that’s required is the official notice. The decision.
At this point, a cynical soul might have to imagine that the can kicking is becoming about the country that must never be mentioned. Pretty telling she’s had more contact with S******h government representation in the past fortnight (at her request) than at any time (other than a courtroom to steal stuff) over the past two years. S******d. Say it vewy, vewy, quietly.
UK politics is currently collapsing at an alarming rate. An already fractured and overly manipulated society, is polarising into very distinct camps. The devolved nations are getting fractious and none more so than the UK’s significant other signatory (that’d be us, the country that dare not be mentioned on telly). Some S******h citizens are beginning to believe they made a fairly grievous error a few years back. They might be right you know.
Whatever the outcome of the next 8-10 weeks? The UK will be a name only kinda thing. The Conservatives and Labour have pretty much killed the concept of joint government and joint parliament stone dead between them. Well done them.
As for how they unite the populations they broke apart? Unite society as a whole after what they’ve done? I don’t think they have it in them tbh. Half of the populations of these islands will never forgive the political class for making them do this. (and who can blame them?) As for getting on with the other half of the population(s)? Only time will tell.
Westminster’s political class and system have already failed. The only damn thing holding it together at all, is the piss poor media. When enough folk have hit the buffers over this latest idiocy? They’re going to be looking for those responsible in order to ask some pointed questions. (shrugs) There won’t be enough column inches, broadcast space, spin or waffle can hide the fact that the buck stops with them, their practices and how they did the day job.
Karma can be a right wee besom sometimes.
It’s hotting up, and I think there may be some surprises to come (pleasant ones) regarding the attitude in the media in Scotland. I certainly hope so!
Capella says:
“Hi Chris – what about a cartoon then? Or maybe a holiday snap?”
———————
Be careful what you say there Capella with “holiday snap”, he probably thinks you mean a snap holiday and then he’s buggered off again……!! 😉
Daisy Walker 12.10
In the unlikely event of a Peoples Vote coming along. Scotland can demand that the Scottish vote is respected, and we are not towed out on Englands shirt tail.
O/T
NHS Dental services in Scotland: Registration and Participation (from ISD Scotland published today)
Registration
5.1 million people were registered with an NHS dentist as at 30 September 2018 (94.2% of the Scottish population). An increase of 1.7 percentage points since last year.
Registration rates were similar for children and adults (94.1% and 94.3% respectively).
97.5% of adults living in the most deprived areas were registered with an NHS dentist compared to 88.6% in the least deprived areas.
Registration rates for children living in the most deprived areas were similar to the rates for those living in the least deprived areas.
Contact with an NHS Dentist (Participation)
As at 30 September 2018, 7 out of 10 registered patients (3.6 million) had seen an NHS dentist within the last two years.
Children are more likely than adults to have seen an NHS dentist within the last two years (84.1% compared to 66.6%).
Children and adults from the most deprived areas are less likely to have seen their dentist than those from the least deprived areas.
For children, 79.8% of patients living in the most deprived areas compared to 89.2% of patients living in the least deprived areas. For adults, 62.2% compared to 72.7%.
I know it is really O/T but what the h*ll it is quite a set of statistics. Well done the dentists.
Also O/T
Front page story in the Herald: Ownership of second homes in Scotland has halved. Not quite so prominently placed in the online Herald.
Reporting ShitLand on day four of pigeon shite headlines, they know their level. They can’t get their heads out of it.
How we used to laugh at the made up nonsense headlines on BBC comedy shows a few decades ago, not realising that BBC Scotland thought they were training videos.
Hi Nana,thanks for the thread re the national insurance contributions, i was gob smacked.So while the uk has amongst the worst pensions in Europe and have to work longer to receive them, Westminster uses the surples to pay of debt they ran up!Sounds a bit like a Robert Maxwell scheme to me.
ONS as we all know we cant depend on anything Westminster produces Employed if a person works 1hour a fortnight ah wonder what the Scottish deficit is this year Grossrail 1billion over budget / London Sewer system over budget / Carillion projects going bust / not forgetting the Nuclear Power plants & the billions wasted .
They don’t use NI to actually pay of debt. What they do is have a single account where everything is held in different budgets but the grand total is negative.
Think of it as a bit like the current account/mortgage deal where you’ve essentially got only one balance and the interest due on the house payments is offset on a daily basis.
Very interesting last 20 minutes on BBC R4
First of all they actually told the truth –
…..A ‘no deal’ Brexit will mean that every single rule and regulation that we have with the EU covering every aspect of our lives will cease to exist and there could be chaos”
Then they had Sir Prof Curtice and his polls – apparently now it is 56% : 44% for remain which Curtice describes as Remain getting ‘marginally’ ahead
( wonder how he would describe the original vote – 52% ; 48% for leave as a significant result??? – my words not his)
And now the MP for Derby saying that the QT audience was most certainly not representative of Derby and he confirmed that he spoken to friends who had been at the recording and they confirmed that Diane Abbott was the subject of negative remarks during the audience warm-up, plus Isabel Oakshott was clearly lying. By the time he said that, the BBC interviewer was clearly getting flustered and quickly needed the interview.
Oh, and I nearly forgot, apparently some family who were planning to cross the channel on May 12th have received a letter saying that Brittany Ferries have to cancel their booking as the Government has requisitioned all the ferry space for essential goods including medical supplies.
Said person was actually a remain voter and is relatively relaxed because she understands that supplies are critical but she questions the motifs of any government that would effectively be creating a situation that she could only consider being replicated if we were being put on a war footing.
Good grief…WM having a self congratulatory w**k-fest over the big issue of the day…Proxy Voting for WM !!
Unbelievable.
There used to be a running joke on Scotland the What with the bar owner of the Glaiket Stirk complaining that despite every angle he is still not making any money.
The UK has, it would seem, near full employment and record percentages economically active. Yet tax receipts are slow and we still have austerity and a deficit.
People working a few hours a week on zero hours contracts, sanctioned unemployed and not allowing women to retire till they are 66 will massage the figures but it doesn’t make for a wealthy economy. We are sinking backwards. Mogg etc represents 1930s social attitudes and 1930s economics.
We have to exit the asylum or become forever institutionalised.
In today’s whodathunk news…
link to archive.is
It’s just staggering how this gov is still being allowed to repeat the exact same spiel day in and day out since that ‘historic’ defeat last week. I mean EU is just continually within moments batting the baw back every time May says ‘backstop changes’. And then 24 hours later the msm splatter it on their online/dsp front pages as if it’s fucking ‘new’ news.
This isn’t reporting, this is the msm enabling and assisting in ‘running down the clock’. They are not informing the population of these islands about the true meaning and if they are…it’s wee snippets nearly 2 and half years later, meaning most people are woefully uninformed about what ‘no deal’ really means.
Every layer of the so called ‘civic’ arm of our society have wilfully ignored what has been apparent on this forum since 2016’s vote. It’s one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the UK population since the beginning of privatisation, pfi, right to buy, it follows the same pattern of the UK being ‘softened up’ to enable a massive re distribution of wealth from the many to the few.
No one wins anything wi this Brexit except those wealthy upper classes who’ll take part in the biggest fire sale in world history as this Tory government finishes what it started wi Thatcher.
The wholesale removal of every workers/employment rights that has been fought for, for over a hundreds years, the selling off ‘trade agreements’, of anything that can be sold with Britain now open to ‘market forces’, those big agri firms in the States lobbying for our resources whilst public services will be turned over to private sharks.
It’s beyond belief that people don’t understand that they were sold down the river, and always will be by the Tories, blue and red, but it’s totally expected that the BBC and every newspaper that they use for their propaganda pish is up to their eyes in lying to the ‘Great British’ public about what’s coming down the road.
God fucking help us if we don’t get out of this.
And we all know here….if ‘no deal’ is the disaster that they are pretending ‘no body wants’ some eleventh hour deal will be arranged for the ‘hard brexit’ that is really what they are after to go ahead, the msm will report it as ‘well whoopee we’ve been saved at the last minute’.
But hard Brexit is just as bad and it’s out of cu out of sm and the exact same result will follow.
Meg Merrilees @ 1.35 pm
All really interesting Meg.
Not at all my biggest concern, but I did wonder what would happen to ordinary planned holidays/trips in the event of expected travel disruption. THAT will really rile folk who thought life would be just hunkydory with a No Deal/Bad Deal exit from the EU.
STV are also now reporting the CBI warning of the seriously bad impact on business in Scotland with a No Deal Brexit.
(The stark warning that the Scottish Government has been broadcasting for months!)
The cynic in me sees the media’s reporting choices as maybe promoting accepting May’s Truly Pants Deal or else.
Will the British media headline the new polls now showing the population’s revised opinion on staying in the EU?
Will they ever air the idea that Article 50 can be revoked?
Or is it too much in the media’s best interests to have real mayhem unleashed on the land giving them wonderful screechy headlines to play with for years to come?
K1
Spot on.
@handandshrimp.
Quite how the tories and their pet media have managed to sell the myth of Tories being the Party of fiscal responsibility is beyond any sense.
2010 to 2019, crushing austerity, slash and burning of public services, pay freezes or maximum 1% ‘increases’.
Yet the National debt has went up by over £1 TRILLION in that 8 years.
Yet NOBODY in the media, or even the general public (except for the politically savvy in Scotland) seems in a hurry to ask, WHERE is that £1 Trillion plus ?
8 years of austerity to take about £60bn off the annual Deficit! (Was around £103bn, now about £40bn).
But there is the brutal reality coming soon with Scottish Independence.
Remember that recent BBC interview when we were told that brexit will cost the uk £200bn in losses, and how that would be like losing Scotland’s revenues overnight ?
Well, even being super conservative (sic) and calling it £100bn/year, that jumps the deficit (WM’s post Yes) to £140bn, going to as high as £240bn if we use the BBC interview figure.
Which begs the actual question, how will WM deal with those deficit figures, while STILL having to service their debt (currently around 50-odd billion/year in interest alone), bearing in mind the measures taken to cut the post crash deficit from £103bn down to £40bn over 8 years and counting?
Rees-Mogg may well get his Victorian Values for dear old England with Scottish Independence.
More concerning, is what happens when the electorate down south says to the government, “hold on, you said WE subsidise Scotland”!!
That cannot end well.
I find it very hard to comment on Brexit itself, as it comes down to one word.
Complete and utter madness.
That was 4 🙂
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 21 January, 2019 at 10:25 pm:
” … one possible off-the-wall preemptive Plan B for the SG might be to have all SNP MPs resign and stand for re-election on an independence ticket.”
Oh! for heaven’s sake, Robert, every SNP elected member since the SNP was formed in 1934 has stood on an independence ticket. It is the party’s reason to exist.
I don’t want to be stuck in a mindset of ‘belief’ about our independence…to wrap a blanket of false comfort around myself. Independence hasn’t been and isn’t assured ‘yet’ and no matter how much we all think that it is coming, we still do not have the ‘out’, right ‘now’.
Brexit has to be faced for what it is ‘now’. It was never a reason for our independence, it has become one because of ‘events’, we didn’t choose this but we are not legally able to distance ourselves from it ‘yet’.
Which means we are at the mercy of these forces.
And we must keep informing others on here and out here what this ‘actually’ means in ‘real terms’ for Scotland, right now.
There are 99.000 people unemployed in Scotland but 4% unemployed in England or as the BBC like to call it these days THE UK
Now that’s what I call BBC Yoon reporting because 4% looks a lot less than 99.000 which is the lowest unemployment figure in recorded Scottish history
I’ll leave to you to work out the numbers for Engl, I mean UK
Geoo, re Tories reducing deficit, smoke and mirrors, from getting the boe to payback interest due from government on qe costs to putting royal mail pension fund into reducing it one year. If it has come down its certainly not bymutch.
Meg merrilees @ 13:35,
A curious programme in more than one way. An evident struggle to maintain party lines on Brexit in the face of the latest poll information, the Labour MP as much as the announcer. In this Great Democracy the people have spoken but they have to jolly well shut up now because it doesn’t fit the big party agendas.
And the continuing spat about bias on the latest QT. Labour unhappy while I’m muttering at the radio “welcome to the club”. And the announcer of course has to conclude with the standard BBC party line, nothing to see, all perfectly OK.
As if.
Dr Jim , are the Scottish Government using thr same methodogy for determing if somebody is in employment as UK Government? the UK says that if somebody on a zero hours contract works for two hours or more per fortnight then they are classified as being in employment. Remember a stushie when this fact became public knowledge before Christmas but dont know if Scots Government use same criteria, anybody know?
@K1 says:21 January, 2019 at 10:35 pm:
That comment about the Guardian made me laugh.K1.
I had read, on-line, the Guardian had began to wrap its weekend supplements in a new compostable wrapper made from potatoes instead of the customary clear plastic.
It had immediately run through me mind that the new wrapper was very appropriate as it added tatties to the mince they usually sell as news.
@Lenny Hartley
I wouldn’t have a scooby but you would guess if one lot is using a methodology to count unemployment numbers the other lot would use the same methodology, level playing field and all that I suppose
Westminster remains, under the radar, a Colonial power, with all its colonial habits and instincts intact, among which, treachery rules supreme, ably backed up by a complete disregard for the human suffering they inflict in their relentless pursuit of power and the wealth of their colonised states – like Scotland.
Robert Peffers @ 14:29,
In 2017 you could have fooled me, what with that “stronger for Scotland” thin gruel. And I’m by no means the only one. Many of whom were so underwhelmed they stayed at home, with consequences only too apparent today.
But you never fail to disappoint, once again missing the main point I was making by a country mile, all for the sake of some semantic nit-picking. Of course we all know what the SNP stands for, though some non-indy voters do respond to the moderate line.
What I was trying to explore, for those who can’t see the wood for the bark patterns on the trees, was the possibilities for what in effect would be an indyref by proxy, especially in the context of no overall UKGE. Would the evident limitations be too great, or (lacking any better alternative) could such a tactic work nevertheless…?
@Dr Jim and lenny: Westminster uses different methodology for A&E waiting times, remember?
Or to put it another way, Scotland’s measure is clear and honest and generous – 4 hours to be fully treated and discharged or moved to a ward.
In England it is 4 hours of waiting for the first contact with staff.
@lenny hartley.
Absolutely agree with that, however, the figure i quoted are the figures put out in the public domain, so i used those figures as identifiable to people for comparison and illustrative purposes.
Us political anoraks know the figure has been massaged as you rightly say.
If the numbers were ever to be counted accurately one would guess that *Britain* holds the world record for slaughtering around the globe
On BBC2 last night was a documentary of their brutal involvement in South Africa and India which ran into millions of deaths directly attributed to the glorious *British Empire* and but for Ghandi would have continued with many more
I’m sure they’ve negotiated that figure down since then though or even Harry Pottered it away
Expelliamous we killed nobody it wiz them foreigners wot dun it to themselves guv
@Sarah 2:57pm
You are indeed correct, hospital numbers are calculated much more fairly in Scotland
I think that’s because we’re quite good at hospitaling up here
Geeo @ 2.24 pm
Mibee if they stayed in the EU and the new tax haven laws were allowed to come into force THAT new revenue would go some way to clearing their deficit =)
That and hauling in the taxes due from the usual suspects.
I too wonder what will happen if the truth is ever revealed about Scotland’s contribution. Maybe pride and self preservation will keep those elite mouths shut. It’ll all just a big mystery why the British empire ain’t doing so well even without the burden of those pesky Scots.
I sell outside the EU and inside the EU, neither straightforward, but with the EU once you follow one set of rules and procedures, you have access to 27 EU countries. For other countries you have to look up and form fill for every single one differently. The US isn;t easy but the Customs and agencies are very helpful, plus they have online registration facilities. Australia curiously is very well documented online.
One of these days I might put a more full posting about it, can’t be bothered.
The EU ain’t perfect but once you follow the rules for the EU as a whole, you have access to a market of over a half billion people and 27 / 28 countries. The customs are, well, easy or non-existent, it’s more product following EU regs as transposed into member state legislation is the problem.
What export stats don’t take into account as far as I can see, is the percentage contribution of SMEs and in particular, micro-entities. The work overhead for a micro-entity trying to survive is proportionately ginormous even as it is. I miss opportunites because of it. WTO will be a total disaster.
Madness? Leaving the EU is bonkers.
O/T
“Commission spokesman says that if there’s a no deal Brexit ‘you will have a hard border’ in Ireland. First time it’s been put so explicitly on the record… Commission spokesman also said ‘a no deal Brexit will clearly, clearly put’ the peace process and cross-border cooperation ‘in risk’.” from link to twitter.com
Of course, the BitNat loyalists will be quite happy if this EU-imposed ‘hard border’ occurs but what will the Nationalist community in N.I. make of it? Will they turn against the EU?
Maybe if the UK weren’t so unpopular they wouldn’t need squillions of quids spent on unusable war machinery and they could spend it on stuff people need, y’know like lots of other countries do
‘No deal’ just won’t go away. One of the seriously worrying things about it is, there are ordinary folks out there confused about what it is.
You see a car and want to trade in yours. You haggle all day. But ‘no deal’. So you leave the garage in your existing car and nothing has changed.
So often I’m seeing the suggestion that some not politically aware ordinary folks see ‘no deal’ Brexit as being like that. Or, something like it. Harmless. The option for no change.
Jeez! How wrong could they be.
The car analogy with Brexit would be … You see a car and want to trade in yours. You haggle all day. But ‘no deal’. So you walk outside, set fire to your existing car, and from then on have to walk everywhere!
What a thick bunch of useless wankers Scottish Labour are. Truly pathetic and unbelievably inept.
I think I can add to that car analogy.
Brexit = You walk into a garage, you have no car and repeatedly tell the garage that ‘IF’ they don’t give you the car you want, you’ll walk out the garage without a car. ‘No Deal’ = you will definitely be taking your imaginary car with you to sell it your imaginary friends.
Proud cybernetic @ 3.23
Forcing the EU to put a hard border on Ireland,will, I think, translate into a ” punishment ” Brexit very quickly.
It’s really the only thing that the EU could do to bring Westminster to it’s senses and back to the table!!
These people are insane certifuckinfiable, we need to leave them to it and get out..
Can we see it through to indyref2, I hope so.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Jings! That Craig Murray piece on WoS twitter is a must read.
So we now have a Tory MP with a distinctly Polish sounding surname writing to the Polish government asking them to black any attempt at revoking of A50. Channel 4’s Jon Snow on twitter.
Indyref2 @0318 pm “ leaving the EU is bonkers” , as a whole you have access to half a billion people& 27/28 countries “ consequently, if this outcome is endorsed by HOC and becomes inevitable and our FM is satisfied re absolute clarification, then should the people of Scotland be asked the following question in the context of the EU/U.K. ?
Should Scotland remain in the EU and withdraw from the U.K.
or
Should Scotland remain in the U.K. and withdraw from the EU
?? thoughts anyone??
K1@2.08: very well said. The BBC and tabloid-owning billionaires must bear most of the responsibility for enabling the madness of Tory Brexit and the Pravdasound 4 programme involving the Derby MP which Meg Merrilees and RJS mentioned was typically duplicitous, slimily suggesting the (justified) complaints about QT were simply orchestrated by Labour.
Of course, the State Propagandist must keep the plebs in their mushroom status, otherwise the pitchforks and pikes would be out, and we’d all be heading for the castle.
What a carve-up!
“Brexit-backing businessman Sir James Dyson is to relocate the Dyson head office from the UK to Singapore.
The bombshell announcement will mean Dyson is no longer a British registered company and Singapore will become its main tax base.
The headquarter switch from Malmesbury, Wiltshire, is likely to prove controversial given that Sir James – the company’s billionaire chairman, founder and owner – is an outspoken proponent of Brexit.
link to archive.fo
Michty me, who’d have thought such a thing possible?
@North chiel
I’d prefer two referendums.
1. Should Scotland be an Independent Country? YES / NO
then later, and I think the EU might insist on it
2. Should Scotland become a full member of the EU? YES / NO
or Should Scotland become a memebr of EFTA / EEA? YES / NO
Question 2 would need to be reworded so as to make it multi-answer, like EU YES, EFTA YES, neither NO, or EU NO, EFTA YES, neither NO. Or even NO NO YES.
If you see what I mean!
But keep them separate, and hopefully while the second Ref was being waited for we’d be in a holding pen / backstop arrangement, while negotiating terms – possibly for both EU and EFTA / EEA so the people of Scotland can make a choice.
Currently I’d be a (reluctant still it ain’t perfect) EU YES plus an EFTA / EEA YES.
Rueters reporting P&O re flagging its entire UK registered fleet to Cyprus ahead of Brexit
link to twitter.com
Could I suggest that a no deal Brexit is becoming a certainty for ‘big Businesses’ now? And do remember they will have more inside information ahead of us on the process that is taking place and the likelihood…just think…gagging orders and that falls into place.
After Independence the Scottish government will stand down to make way for elections for a new government so it’s anybody’s guess who would be voted in or what their positions might be on whichever version of EU style membership might be
We can guess who it’s more likely to be but who knows, elections can throw up all sorts of surprises and people you though were dead against things suddenly change their minds miraculously
Murdo Fraser will become a born again republican £5 bet
Kezia Dugdale will become a dedicated Green party person
Richard Leonard will go back to being a robbing GMB union man, he’ll have no chance in politics
Anas Sarwar will ask to join the SNP who he’s always admired
I look upon the news that Dyson moving their tax base to Singapore means that he believes we will remain in eu good result.
Scotland has another island, never seen for 150 years
link to offgridquest.com
@Thepnr
Dyson and P&O
Aye! Suck it up UK…we’re off. 🙂
THIS;
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Has left me very angry and raises a lot of questions about not just Leslie Evans, but the SNP leadership itself (what on earth are they playing at?).
Just really desperately sad about the whole thing. Alex Salmond is a champion of Scotland and deserves much, much better than this. I know he has said we should focus on indyref, but it does raise an awful lot of questions. In the meantime the best thing the FM could do, is stop apologising for the lies (as demonstrated in court) perpetrated by the civil service against Salmond, and get rid of Evans.
The doos’ dos do continues on BBC and they told a blatant lie on the news where we are by saying “as a result of pigeon infection” when reporting the death of the two patients when this is not in fact the case.
Desperation is where they are now and I refuse to believe we are not now ahead in the polls.
We are on the starting line alongside our opponents and we will pull away as the race actually starts.
As I said recently it is now 50% YES, 30% NAW and 20% don’t know. They need all the “don’t Knows”.
Nae chance
It’s hard to believe that there appear to be many people on the side of Independence that fail to see the “divide and rule” tactics of the UK state as being an actual thing.
Taking sides in any “civil war” always results in tragedy. We aught to know better and right now we know nothing. Just saying.
Call me Dave @ 4.17
Well it certainly is one take on the situation!
While I can believe that Craig’s narrative is plausible, the motives for her response are pure conjecture.
I’m still not seeing what else Nicola could have done.
If the British state are out to get Alex Salmond, and they almost certainly are…. They are going to do it anyway and the whole sorry tale needs to play out.
While yes that woman and her side kick should resign,is Nicola sacking them really her best option?
What’s keeping them from resigning is the real question here?
And if it isn’t a good move for Nicola to sack them then she is obviously going to have to say she has confidence in them!
So I still can’t see what else she could have done!
Every move has consequences and not to get caught up in the game’s of the British State is probably the least worst!
While those two are still clinging on,I don’t think Alex Salmond is finished with the Scottish Civil service yet,so I can see why the Office of the First Minister should keep a professional distance.
So, in the utter lunacy that is brexit, P&O will no longer register their ships in the UK, and one of the big campaigners for brexit, James Dyson, is taking his entire company off to singapore.
Quite, quite, surreal. Yet still the racist brexiteers insist it will be good for business, and the clown Jeremy Corbyn still mumbles on about a ‘jobs first’ brexit. Perhaps he means those jobs that will be first to go to another country??
Indyref2 please. ASAP.
Ghillie says:
Mibee if they stayed in the EU and the new tax haven laws were allowed to come into force THAT new revenue would go some way to clearing their deficit =)
………
Sound enough plan, however, a hard sell after telling anyone who will listen, that if Scotland charges the super rich an extra £20/week they will all leave and pay nothing…
What goes around, comes around indeed..!
Thepnr @ 16:27,
When she heard this one, my missus, who is a douce sort, forcibly exclaimed “what a hypocrite – in capital letters”. Which is strong for her.
I think a boycott of Dyson products is very much in order.
Your later point about divide-and-rule is also worth keeping in mind. Whoever keeps their cool most during this increasing crisis – with martial law now being promised in the event of a no-deal Brexit – will be the one who prevails.
And to think that according to the Leave campaign in 2016, no-deal was supposed to be a breeze!
Dyson and Singapore.
Singapore signed a free trade deal with the EU in October 2018.
Just saying.
My preference for the Question for the Scottish people.
Do you want to remain in the EU. YES / NO
We all know Alex Salmond pretty well and if he has anything to say you can bet your life he’ll say it and my estimation of the former FM is that he won’t be thanking anyone who thinks they’re saying it for him or second guessing what he thinks or means for what could be reasons of their own, because we don’t know
So I have no questions for Alex Salmond or Nicola Sturgeon that I don’t think they can’t answer for themselves if and when they’re ready
Over the years how many times have we seen such phrases used by newspapers or reporters like *insiders say* *people close to* *senior figures say* *leaks from the top* and they all turn out to be made up by the people who reported the stuff just to cause trouble or get attention or sell a newspaper
There are folk who hate the FM or the former FM or both for whatever reason so for me I just don’t trust any of those people to tell the truth about anything even though they might be
Do we trust Alan Cochrane who spends his entire waking life rubbishing the FM and before her the former FM, do we trust Jim Sillars who’s become a raving bonkers case on the subject of anything SNP, NO we don’t, so how can we tell who are the good guys on the subject of anything SNP anymore, we can’t
Everyone seems to have an agenda so I’ll wait for the principals to say their piece when it’s time, and my reasons, I like both of them
@call me dave: I think what makes the great Brexiteer Dyson’s conduct just a smidgeon hypocritical is that Singapore is just waiting for its free trade agreement with the EU to be ratified, which seems merely a formality.
So, if P&O are no longer registering their ships here, will they remove the god-awful huge union jackery that is splattered over their cruise ships?? Does any other country do that with cruise ships???
Les Wilson @ 4:54
You’ve to keep that nugget for 1st April, to coincide with the dates of previous publications on the same subject.
Legerwood: your 5.38 must have appeared while I was commenting. I believe I read somewher that it still requires a ratification but nothing’s going to stop it.
Mr Dyson: “Don’t do as I do, do as I say, plebs.”
@Les Wilson
From that article: “it appears to correspond with descriptions of ‘Hy Breasal’ or ‘Hy-Brasil’ – a once-thought mythical island not sighted since 1872, and never before surveyed in detail”
Exactly what it looks like, with that ridge of rock going out to it. Kind of spooky 🙂
I would say it’s reappearance is no coincidence, these things have a habit of happening at times of need, and Scotland’s need is great – as is perhaps Ireland’s.
“the High King of the world in Celtic history”
And that’s all I’m going to say about that.
All we can hope is that brexit supporting Wetherspoon clown leaves the country with his pubs too. Never heard anybody talk as much mince as that man does regarding the EU.
Yesindyref2,
Ok, excuse me if I’m being slow here, but this ‘new’ Island in Scotland is a spoof, yes?
Mmm, I’m so impressed with that island I’ve bookmarked it.
Question answered.
Can we expect news about Dyson and P&O on the news tonight.
YES / NO
@Robert Louis
Ah, perhaps indeed. It was apparenly published on April 1st last year – but then so was genuine news. If it is indeed endowed with mythical powers, it might have decided to disappear again.
Until needed.
@yesindyref2
Regards EU v EFTA etc, for me it’s about deciding what sort of country we want to be and what sort of economy we want to have then deciding which of the above let’s us do that best.
Huh! 🙄
link to archive.fo
@ScottieDog
I thin it’s important to try to lock in a transition – a just in case – while we discuss it properly AFTER a YES vote for Indy. It would save a double disruption, and phase our own departure if that was the final choice. Or make our own memebrship an easy step.. I also think the EU-27 would be likely to agree to that.
@Macart
That’s a great one to use against those who insist we knew fine the chances of leaving the EU for a NO vote in 2014. It’s a double hit on them too because the Brexiteers hate Tusk 🙂
RE: “‘Hy Breasal’ or ‘Hy-Brasil’ – a once-thought mythical island not sighted since 1872, and never before surveyed in detail”.
(Cough!) Seems that it/they are invisible to the mapping satellites. There are no islands showing up on Google Maps in that location. The nearest are the Flannan Isles.
Zoom out from this map to see the area.
link to goo.gl
@yesindyref2
I would have thought EFTA would be a more certain transition (which also affords greater independence than the EU). I’m hoping that conversation has already been had.
@Macart
Huh! right enough.
All part of the softening up process that’s been happening for months “Brexit: The Movie” and now this. Gullible or what?
“The first part of Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil, ‘We Quit’, is on Monday 28 January, BBC Two, 9pm.”
More convinced than ever now that there will be a second EU referendum and Remain will win. All part of the game LOL.
Also worth reading.
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
@yesindyref2
Lost count of the posts on indyweb which pointed out the idiotic gamble angle. (shrugs) Guess you can’t tell some folks.
@Thepnr
Should prove interesting viewing right enough. 😉
@BDTT
Hy-Brasil only makes itself visible to those who believe.
@ScottieDog
Possibly yes, I wouldn’t have a problem with EFTA. But it’s getting that YES vote, and continued EU membership while the decision is made would make a YES a near cert. Otherwise Remainers might think “why bother?”.
I do so hope that Hy Breasal has some unicorns.
(Scottish of course).
Before we start arguing about membership of the EU or EFTA, or having multi-choice referendums, perhaps it would be prudent to take back the POWER to make a decision, by achieving independence first?
Remember the old mantra – “divide and conquer”.
Should Scotland be an independent country? YES/NO.
@Essexexile says: 21 January, 2019 at 7:00 pm:
” … it’s necessary to have it recognised by WM because if it’s not, then we’re sure as hell not going to have the result recognised by other nations – which is what is really important.”
Sorry to burst that particular bubble, Essexexile, (actually I’m not sorry), but there is precedent, (and precedent is almost sacrosanct in law).
Anyway, in the first place, Westminster and other countries are on a hiding to nothing over that recognition as was proven with the international decision reached when the United States and Westminster both tried, unsuccessfully, to commandeer jurisdiction over the Lockerbie Bomber trial.
In that case the incident happened over internationally recognised Scottish airspace and, just as there is legally no such thing as United Kingdom Territorial Waters under the international Law of the Seas, there is no such thing as United Kingdom Airspace, (accepting that Scotland and England, (Kingdoms of), are equally sovereign partners in a united kingdom, strangely enough a united kingdom called, “The United Kingdom”.
The solution was that the international courts decided the trial was indeed to be held under Scottish Jurisdiction. Although, the arguments were so bitter that the courts allowed the trial to be held in a neutral country but only if the land the court stood upon was deemed to be temporarily Scottish soil.
Then we have the simple fact that, “The United Kingdom”, is not stupid enough to attempt to claim that Scotland hasn’t got legal right and jurisdiction. Here’s why. If they claim they are legally sovereign then that negates the Treaty of Union because the Treaty of Union unequivocally states that the United Kingdom is a union of only two kingdoms.
If Westminster, or anyone else for that matter, claims otherwise in the international courts then the International courts would totally destroy their own credibility because they have already ruled that The two kingdoms are equally sovereign in several previous rulings. I’ve only mentioned two but there are others.
Furthermore, Westminster is supposedly the union parliament but, as in the recent ECJ ruling, it cannot be the Kingdom of England government and the United Kingdom Government at the same time.
It is no more than English exceptionalism that has fostered the myth that the United Kingdom is other than a bipartite union of kingdoms yet Westminster has indeed claimed that, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.
It most certainly does nothing of the sort, (go read the bloody thing). In point of fact the whole idea of Devolution is an illegal action on at least two scores.
The United Kingdom is a union of two kingdoms it is thus a kingdom and not a country. Secondly even if it were a union of four countries where is the legality in Westminster directly governing only one of those countries under English law and then devolving a few useless English powers, (that England has no legal right to), down to three subservient, (and thus legally inferior, dominion countries. Especially when one of those countries is unarguably the only kingdom partner in the bipartite United Kingdom.
Read Craig Murray’s blog.
For the last two years I’ve warned and warned about a rot in the SG under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership.
As a result I’ve been labelled a troll and worse: being labelled an anti-independence closet unionist, when I’ve supported independence all my adult life.
Knowing what I know, I’ve repeatedly tried to separate the merits of indy as being valid by themselves, not based on how good or bad the SNP or Scot Govt are.
I’ve done this to try and prevent damage to the greater and more important indy movement through being tainted with the rot at the heart of the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership.
At last the truth is coming out. Thank goodness for Craig Murray, Alex Salmond and the others who have had the courage to speak out and tell the truth.
Believe me, though it’s sad to see what’s happened with Ms Sturgeon and her clique but, it’s better the truth comes out now, rather in the middle of an indyref campaign,though I never believed indyref would happen under Ms Sturgeon anyway, but that’s another issue.
There’s still time to cut out the canker.
Ms Sturgeon should do the decent thing now and resign, along with Ms Evans.
And Please Please Please, SNPers, do not choose Jeanne Freeman to replace her. I’m not going to say why I say that, just don’t, if you care about the reputation of the SNP and more importantly, the campaign for Scottish independence.
According to the Evening Express the meetings with the Scotland and
Does anyone reading Wings other than Colin Alexander and a few others really believe that Nicola Sturgeon was part of a plot with Lesley Evans to do the dirty on Alex Salmond?
Hahaha I’m just jesting with you of course, such an idea is ludicrous but maybe not to everybody if you get my drift.
Read all of the comments below the line on the Craig Murray article and then please try and explain to me how this in any way furthers the cause of Independence.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Craig Murray could have told this whole story of the two civil servants and his inside info about their appearance at the Court of Session and it would have been a good read.
Why he has chosen to speculate about the First Minister’s involvement I’ve no idea, there’s another grenade just been thrown in this civil war. Stupid if you ask me but there you go.
No surprise then, to me at least to see Colin Alexander pop up with his tuppance worth in an attempt to add fuel to the fire.
(oops!!! Itchy finger!!!) Wales have been cancelled 🙂
UK Government ‘cancels Brexit talks with Scotland and Wales’
link to belfasttelegraph.co.uk
CH4 news tonight seems to be coming from Wales tonight covering the Assembly’s debate on the effect of Brexit on Wales.
Scotland tomorrow night??
Reporting Scotland tonight. Report on the fungal infections.
Report showed a clip of the Health Secretary reporting to Holyrood on the issue. She stated quite clearly in the clip that the infection was not a contributory factor in one of the deaths but was in the death of the child.
Unless my ears deceived me, after the report the reporter speaking to Jackie Bird in the studio stated that the infection caused both deaths!
Anyone else hear her saying that?
I was watching a recent bad tempered interview on LBC with James O’Brien & Jacob Rees Mogg in which both seemed to be of the opinion that if we crash out of the EU with no deal the UK will not have to pay the £39 Billion.
Can anyone tell me if that’s true, my understanding is that it’s money the UK are owe the EU for services rendered so to speak and is to be paid deal or no deal
Thepnr
The writing was on the wall but people can be blinded by faith and loyalty.
How many times have I said Indy = SNP is wrong and urged people to support indy as a cause in itself, not tied in with the SNP?
I’ve lost count. Why did I do that?
I’ve been trying to defend the independence campaign from being tainted by the SNP leadership.
I hoped the truth would come out eventually but, have never wanted Scotland and the independence cause to suffer because of the abuse of power by the Ms Sturgeon clique at the head of the SNP.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
Jesus, did I just tune in to an unreality show? Where’s that remote!
@Robert Peffers 2:29pm
Not often I have to back up and go “wait..what?” For one of your posts.
I’m really unclear here. Who stands on an Independence ticket again? Not the SNP as a party for the last decade surely, or we’d be independent already following their majority. So I’m missing something fundamental here. I don’t recall any member in my region promising that specifically in any literature in the the last decade either.
Single.issues yes, stronger representation at Westmimster yes, but not “A vote for me is a vote for independence” or a “Vote for the Snp is a vote for independence” A vote to try and deliver a referendum if Westminster can be convinced maybe.
Not a criticism – it’s what brought the SNP to a decade of power and normalised as the mainstream party in Scotland – that ocurred because a vote for the SNP during that period was specifically NOT a vote for Independence. One could happily vote for the SNP in the full knowledge the only thing they could deliver was a referendum on Independence, which could happily be bumped with impunity if one so chose. Which many SNP voters certainly did in 2014.
Anyway, just a little confused there..maybe something is lost in translation or I’m seriously ignorant.
Why get your knickers in a twist over Nicola and Alex ?.
The truth will come out in any event either through one of the numerous investigations going on or at the court case when and if Alex sues the government.
Craig is offering conjecture, or rather hearsay, nothing more.
In any event I remain committed to voting the main party offering the prospect if indy, regardless of any other factor, or who did or didn’t do what to who, or who is in the driving seat..
Craig, what is your agenda in this ? Truth, stirring or revenge?
Graeme
The Uk would owe about half the £39 Billion.
If it is a No Deal then they owe nothing but would be obliged to pay what they would have owed.
If they never paid a penny they would become a pariah state and would be blacklisted as so.
So in the end, if they leave with No Deal they probably will pay Billions every year to the EU just to keep their credit rating up.
Coco dribbled: “Ms Sturgeon should do the decent thing now and resign”
Thats ablut as hilarious as you claiming to be pro indy.
So coco, is it a drink problem causing your memory lapses, or crystal meth ?
Coco dribbled: “Ms Sturgeon should do the decent thing now and resign”
Thats about as hilarious as you claiming to be pro indy.
So coco, is it a drink problem causing your memory lapses, or crystal meth ?
Oops…sorry bout that, had corrected a spelling error and had pressed submit without realising.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt more depressed and ‘head-in-hands’ as I do now having watched CH4 news report on the Aachen Merkel/Macron summit re further integration.
It becomes ever more apparent that whole swathes of Europe not only question this…but the very existence of an EU itself.
The flashback to Konrad Adenauer (former Wehrmacht..39-45) signing the treaty in 1963 seemed common sense to a Europe that had only come out of..18 years previous..a war of annihilation.
Sad to say..nothing has been learned…and if not experienced..will probably repeat.
Coco should hod his advice surgery some ither place Nows not the time & Wings for him is not the place .
@Tam the Bam
Since 2009 the EU has, in the Lisbon Treaty, articles about common defence and security meaning effectively that if one is attacked, the others should rush in and help. Any joint action would, as specified in the Treaty, require unanimous consent of all 28 members in the European Council.
Anything else, or an actual European Army as the Brexiteers sneer about, would require changes to the Lisbon Treaty, or a brand new one. Either would also require unanimous consent.
What’s there is similar to the NATO Article 5 “One for all and all for one”. The Yanks aren’t too fond of it, well, tough. The Yanks showed years ago that defence of Europe would be secondary to their own interests.
Merkel and Macron can talk all they want. Contrary to Daily Express drvein opinion, they don’t rule over the EU.
BobMack
I object strenuously to your characterisation of “hearsay”. It is based on very diligent analysis of what the court record and documentary evidence shows.
Please don’t let us have blog wars on Wings. There’s a time and a place, specially the place.
ronnie anderson
I’m surprised at you. I thought you were the one that felt it right to speak out in public when you believed you had found something deeply wrong and troubling to do with AUOB.
Does that core value, which I respected you for, no apply when it comes to the SNP?
Jezza@7.52pm
Unable to answer my question or just can’t be bothered but happy to spout a lot of insults.
One thing I have learned is that politicians will always, ALWAYS, let you down sooner or later.
The ego and self belief required to become an elected public servant can easily blur the lines between right and wrong.
That said, NS is probably the most decent, honest individual in politics today and it’ll take more than a few technical details to bring her down. If this is all the ammunition the establishment ( or anyone) has, then I’m not worried at all tbh.
@Craig Murray,
You can object all you want, but by your own admission not all the evidence was made public. Until that happens all you are doing is indulging in conjecture of a not very pleasant variety.
.
Your information from court records show no more than any of us already know . You however are using a single thread to make a rope eventually.
Perhaps better to know the facts first Craig .
Cubby
What???
Let’s face it, it would appear that Alex Salmond has been set up to keep him out of the independence equation for as long as possible.
Unionists powers that be require to use any form of subterfuge to prevent Scotland becoming one of the richest countries in not only western Europe but in the rest of the world.
Trust in WM has gone for ever. Again, it would appear that the rest of the civilised world shares the same view. WTO is going to handle them wi’ a lang spoon.
Bob Mack,
You are, I think, being deliberately obtuse. That it is not public does not mean I have not had access to the information. Getting access to non-public information is what I do, and my record is extremely good. It is not conjecture. It is based on a careful analysis of the court proceedings – all of them.
Jezza@@8.47pm
At least that’s an improvement on your previous posts full of insults and abuse.
Now try and see if you can answer my question on the subject that kicked off your tirade of abuse.
If you can’t answer then just say so and apologise for the abuse.
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 9:43 pm
“Which part of Nicola saying indyref announcement “in next few weeks” sounds like June ?
Announcement soon (before march 29th) of indyref2 and dare WM to say no section 30.”
I beg to differ.
It will be a postponement of indyref “until further notice”.
Heard from a trusted friend today, that the biggest oil rig in the world is currently on it’s way towards Scotland, from Singapore, to be located in the newest oil field, west of Shetland.
Baad news:
The oil field there is expected to be one of the biggest finds ever.
shhhh! Don’t let Theresa May know!
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 9:58 pm
“Why the feck would we need a Holyrood election (designed to AVOID a majority) when we ALREADY HAVE A MANDATE ?”
Why does Scotland need a second EU referendum when ALREADY 62% voted Remain in the last one?
W@Craig Murray,
No, I am not at all obtuse Craig. I am surprised that someone with your personal work history would try to condemn others who may also be experiencing what happened to you.
You had to defend yourself against malicious charges, whilst someone with alterior motives tried to have you sacked.No doubt they orchestrated a whisper campaign against you as well.
With that experience behind you ,why are you now indulging in the same re Ms Sturgeon. Answer please.
Being convicted or accused before trial is not a good way to go.
Cubby (Or should I call you Ozzy)
WTF are you on about sunshine.???
There are a number of commenters on here, who seem predisposed to sew discontent.
That’s all I’m typing. Mentioning no names but others will work it out by reading the past 4 or 5 hours comments.
Jiss typin’ like.
@ Bob Mack,
With you on this!
@Brian Doonthetoon
It’s always the same mendacious gits
@Craig Murray
When did Nicola Sturgeon appear in court? If you had stuck to the facts with the information you have about the civil servants then as I have already said it was a good story.
But I mean, what is this if not “conjecture”.
“It really is very difficult to look through all the facts – including some I have not given here as they have not been referred to in open court – and conclude that Nicola was unaware of the stitch-up.”
That then implies in my mind at least that you believe Nicola Sturgeon was part of this stitch-up or by ignoring it then she was complicit in the actions taken against Alex Salmond. Sorry but I find that just too difficult to believe, she had absolutely nothing to gain by doing so.
Is that what you implied or have I got it totally wrong?
I just read Craig Murray’s piece about Nicola’s part in the Case against Alex. Interesting.
The title of the piece seems to be at odds with what seem to be the controversial points in the body of it. The title refers to Evans (who could be a Brit State plant for all I know) but the real controversy seems centred on Nicola.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Nicola is adopting her ongoing policy of leaving it to other politicians to defend themselves if allegations are made against them. That makes good sense because it takes away the opportunity for our adversaries to claim that she and the SNP close ranks just like the various shades of Tory unionists. That Alex is well capable of defending himself is evidence of the strength of the SNP and something I am grateful for.
Politics is a rough, tough career choice of you are genuinely working for the people. I am sure everyone saw Alex’s lip tremble outside the Courthouse. But I do not believe he would have wanted or expected his protege to behave differently.
Nor will Nicola be surprised when he gives no quarter in turning on those who have turned on him.
As to notions of Nicola pursuing a policy of self aggrandizement with the women’s movement, I think it much more likely that she is just making it clear to all women that the independence movement is rooted in equal rights for everyone. I see this in her active role in standing by and speaking out for all other sections of Scots society.
Brexit is a bit shit, whichever way you look at it.
The EU 27 are not caveing in to the UK unicorn Brexit demands. We are upholding a UN-sanctioned Peace Treaty, the Good Friday Agreement. Not recognising Engish exceptionality and their supposed god-given right to be given favourable terms just because they want it. haha. Haha.
The worrying thing is that the UK tory government seems willing to scrap the international peace treaty, the GFA, just to keep the English Tory party from imploding. Party before country. Party before peace. Sick.
Moron David Cameron called the EU referendum to shore up his position in his Tory party; gambled the nation on a personal and/or party problem, hey-hum, haha.(But hey, he’s rich enough that it won’t affect him.)
So the GB electorate had a “say” based on misinformation and disinformation; and the instigator then promptly ran away, instead of taking responsibility. The Tories don’t really do responsibility, it’s for the small folk. As if Brexit, the shitstorm and national emergency wasn’t his fault. Typical tory.
The rest of the world, even the Commonwealth that’s supposedly favourable to the UK, the REAL rest of the world, to the Brexiters, forring oiks, will, at least, surely, be queueuing to do free trade deals with what’s left of the UK. The country that prides itself on NOT honouring international deals and paying sums outstanding. Ho hum. Yeah, right, hahaha.
Poor little England, such a vucti of its own history.
All kinds of symbolic birds come home to roost. The world does not like little England and the English Empire mindset. Perfidiuos Albion; it’s all right to have a bit of a laugh at them shooting themselves in the foot.
Hahaha!
The sad thing is not really seeing Scotland’s escape. Two thirds might want it but the UK government, whoever is in charge, will never let go of Scotland, their cash cow.
Scotland’s a lot better. Sadly, stuck with England for now, because enough people were brainwashed by the perfidious Alibion, yoons, and voted NO. So. Sad.
The pnr – you have not got it wrong. I am sorry that you find it very hard to believe. I expect that will be remedied by time and the release of further information.
The ferry, the Stena Superfast VII, which operates between Scotland and Northern Ireland, has a capacity of 1,300 passengers and 660 cars. The submarine was submerged at the depth needed to extend its periscope above the surface. The navy would not confirm which of its ten submarines was involved. They are all nuclear-powered.
link to caltonjock.com
Legerwood@7.28pm
Yes it was Lisa Summers “. it was Saturday night before it became clear that two patients had died as a result of this particular fungus infection related to pigeon droppings” she then goes on to contradict this in her following sentences. Clear as mud.
Reporting Scotland totally at home talking shit and contradicting themselves and rubbishing everyone else. Let’s have 5 enquiries to tell us how rubbish Scotland is.
How do they even know pigeons are getting into the building. How do they know their shit is getting in?
Any pigeons above Propaganda Quay? I know one thing there are a lot of shit reporters manage to get in to Propaganda Quay.
@Craig Murray
I hear you loud and clear, I’ll wait for the evidence but my gut feeling tells me you’re wrong about the FM. The obvious question is why would she go after Alex Salmond? What purpose?
She could not gain from this in any way at all, no matter how it turns out in the end. She is already FM and leader of the SNP, Alex Salmond not even an MP at the time. Why would she go after him with accusations from 2013, one of which we know was already sorted according to internal procedures at the time.
Nicola Sturgeon may have failed to see where this was going when she bought into the new procedure but complicit? Ridiculous in my humble opinion of course.
Do you have a theory as to the why then Craig to add to the rest of your conjecture?
@Lumilumi, nice to see you
We don’t see enough of you
Jezza@9.02pm
Another abusive post from Jezza. That must be about 5 in the last 48 hrs.
Jezza claims not to know anything. Incapable of answering a simple question but quick off the mark with personal abuse. I genuinely hope you are not one of the stellar members of the SNP in your local branch.
@ Thepnr at 7:13pm ….” Why he (Craig Murray) has chosen to speculate about the First Minister’s involvement I’ve no idea.
If this had been his first attack on Nicola Sturgeon I might have deliberated on what he actually has to say now. However what he has done, consistently over time since he was rejected by the SNP, is used his site to discredit Nicola Sturgeon at every turn. A bit of an obsession in fact. A fixation or something else? And as I’ve said before, it’s strange, imo, that as he constantly runs her down to the ground he’s never had a bad word to say about any Unionist politicians in Scotland. No articles to that effect. He says that’s because it’s beneath him to discuss them (or words to that effect) because they are cockroaches. He seemingly was heavily involved with some of the cockroaches for 27 years from 1973 until 2010. The Liberal / LibDem cockroaches. Taking his apparent penchant for the LibDems into account I wonder if he had anything to say about the LibDem cockroach Carmichael’s Frenchgate lies and smears made against Nicola Sturgeon which heavily influenced the outcome of the subsequent GE? If not, why not? Need I ask?
link to en.m.wikipedia.org
Craig Murray’s latest blog is absolutely riddled with his “speculations”, which he tries to pass off as “facts”, for example he “infers” that Nicola’s Chief of Staff Liz Lloyd leaked information to Clegg of the Daily Record. How does he know that? Because “Lloyd knows Clegg well” he says. Lloyd probably knows every key journalist in Scotland “well.”
Mr Murray then moves into psychologist mode: Nicola has been involved in a “stitch-up”, in part because Alex is “easily associated in her mind with the abusive patriarchy as characterised by the feminist movement.” God give us strength.
I notice too that Mr Murray, conveniently, omits to mention that Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t have the power to sack Leslie Evans. A wee “omission?” A strategy that we’re all too familiar with on here. He pops up now and again to make comment to some of his commenters. No sign, however, of him “popping up” to correct them when they say that it’s a disgrace that Nicola hasn’t sacked Leslie Evans when he surely knows that she can’t. Biased or what? Craig’s future? A wee job with the BBC?
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Cubby @ 9.41 pm
Thanks for confirming my hearing was not at fault.
As far as I am aware the pigeons are not getting in just their droppings. It seems to be that there is a small break/gap in a machine room and the droppings are getting in there.
Presumably the machine room, so far the nature of the machinery is unspecified but may have something to do with the ventilation system. If that is the case then why are a lot more patients affected after all the hospital is full of ill people who are thus susceptible to infections.
The two people who have been affected would probably, given their age difference, been in different parts of the hospital. Where did their respective locations stand in relation to the machine room?
Lots of questions but BBC and the rest of MSM, but particularly the BBC, seem more interested in trying to portray the hospital as not fit for purpose. They listed some of the other ‘problems’ and also tried to implicate the new Children’s hospital being built in Edinburgh as well – same construction company apparently.
All proceeding on the basis of insinuation and partial reporting.
Cubby
When are you going to tell everyone WTF you are on about???
Are you mentally ill???
Robert Louis says:
Ok, excuse me if I’m being slow here, but this ‘new’ Island in Scotland is a spoof, yes?
—————–
Head of OS Leisure Rob Crusoe says: “It’s an astonishing discovery that will have walkers champing at the bit”.
There are not yet any paths on Hy-Breasal but the island’s sole peak A’ Ghiblean amadan
ahem 🙂
Daily Rabbit
SNP council secretly breeding pigeons in George Square for biological attack on London says david clatty. It is all their fault says Labour for failing to pay the correct pay rates to wimmin cleaning oot the doocots-. labour will dae better sez Ms Bailliwick. Things never happened like this at the Vale of Leven when we were in charge. All oor patients were in the best o health cumin fae Alexexandria (naw no Egypt) and Dumbbarton.
messege ends
Jezza@9.58pm
Another abusive post re mental illness. Really stacking them up.
Are you too lazy to look back at the original post. Jezza the SNP member who uses accusations of mental illness to abuse, cannot answer a simple question and is too lazy to check back and wants me a poor ill person ( in his opinion) to do it for him.
Tonight on Reporting Scotland Douglas Fraser posed the question in relation to Scotlands housing needs *Why aren’t we building houses”
Well Labour built 6 when they were in office, I believe the SNP Scottish government are up to 70.000 at the moment but yes BBC go right ahead and inform the nations pensioners and idiot numpties that the SNP don’t build anything and when they do build stuff like hospitals and roads and bridges they’re all shit
I blame Nicola Sturgeon you never see her with a tool belt on laying bricks or hammering in nails she’s aye too busy First Ministering 16 hours a day and not doing the day job
Aaargh! I’m so sick of jealous detractors moaning on about the FM what the hell do these people want, Scotland’s on the world map and on the lips of every country at the moment and who put us there, who got us that respect we have around the world, who is the name in British politics that everyone even in England talks about when they talk about straight talking honest politicians, in America they know who Nicola Sturgeon is, they know about the differences between Scotland and England now, they know who we are
And who put us there, Nicola Sturgeon that’s who, so it’s about time some traps were shut tight about the woman who’s created history in Scotland enabling us to stand up straight without our backs bent tugging our forelocks to anybody
Christ in modern Scottish history she’s practically Ghandi
The reason nobody talks about English independence is obvious – they’ve already got it!
By dint of sheer numbers, nobody else dictates policy to England. What England wants she gets.
We should be more concerned about the billions of Scottish taxes and revenues that by-pass Scotland on the way to Westminster.
Thesr should be spent with Scottish priorities in mind
Jezza and Cubby- You gonnae ge it a rest you pair!Dain ma tits in.
Robert louis 5.51pm. Aye the pro brexiteer wetherspoons owner tim martin who so wants to leave the EU, is quite happy to have his chain of pubs in the irish republic. Two faced a****ole.
@Petra,
Try Kwadwo Impiani re Craig Murray and his company Atholl Energy ltd. .
An ideal example of how actions can be construed to suit anything. Two views but only one can be right.
Legerwood@ 9.57pm
Good points made.
“All proceeding on the basis of insinuation and partial reporting.” Sums up the media approach – scare mongering as well.
How do we know that the fungus wasn’t already present in one of the patients prior to admission. It’s still not clear to me to what extent the fungus was responsible for the deaths. 60% in one case and 0% in the other for example. What will the death certificates say?
The reporting on this whole matter has been dire.
Cubby
You are officially a :-
Fuckin Lunatic.
Tam the Bam. says: 8:08 pm
“I don’t think I’ve ever felt more depressed and ‘head-in-hands’ as I do now having watched CH4 news report on the Aachen Merkel/Macron summit re further integration.
It becomes ever more apparent that whole swathes of Europe not only question this…but the very existence of an EU itself.
The flashback to Konrad Adenauer (former Wehrmacht..39-45) signing the treaty in 1963 seemed common sense to a Europe that had only come out of..18 years previous..a war of annihilation.”
————————
Konrad Adenauer had nothing to do with the Wehrmacht. He was the Mayor of Cologne and no friend of the NSDAP/SA.
He was forced out of his Office and spent most of the years 34 – 45 on the run/hiding in monasteries and other places.
At the near end of the war he was caught and sent to a work camp with a note to his papers – “Rückkehr unerwünscht” no desire for his return, IOW work to death.
Anything else about the EU Merkel/Macron story from C4 has more to do with the old, desperation theme of wanting the EU to fail.
Can’t have them Europeans being better than the “British” exceptionalism.
Petra at 9.54 “He’s never has a bad word to say about any unionist politicians in Scotland”.
Here are 20 articles about Jim Murphy from my blog.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
You can search my blog for Gordon Brown, Alistair Darling, Ruth Davison, Kezia Dugdale, J K Rowling etc etc and you will get a similar result.
I find this outpouring of hatred based on total untruth to be deeply disturbing.
“I find this outpouring of hatred based on total untruth to be deeply disturbing.”
Three posters disagreeing with what you have written on your blog is an “outpouring of hatred”? Jeezo, you sound just like the Daily Mail, get a grip LOL.
Pigeon gate.
What is needed is a bird of prey to sort out the pigeons at the hospital. A Jackie Bird will probably do the trick.
Thepnr
It is not simply a matter of disgreeing. I have no objection at all to anybody diagreeing with me. Petra alleged I am a covert unionist and have never published any criticisms of unionist politicians, when I have published literally hundreds. BobMack @ 10.16 pm attacks my business interests in Ghana. Neither of those is simply “disagreeing with what I wrote”. And nor is your deliberate mischaracterisation of them. This is deeply personal attack.
Jezza@10.18pm
Another abusive post. Relentless Jezza.
I’m guessing I won’t be getting an apology any time soon. How about an answer to my question instead of mindless inappropriate abuse using a serious mental illness as a weapon. I hope this is not what they teach you at your local SNP branch to win an argument.
Jezza says You are a lunatic for not supporting independence – that will go down well at the doorstep.
Robbo@10.13pm apologises but please scroll on by.
@ Craig Murray
Did you see the email I sent you on 9 January?
What do you think is the best way forward for the independence movement?
Ah think sumbodies trying tae flatter me lol . Ah dont give ah fek if U respect me or not I certainly dont respect duplicity in anyone , there are more falsehoods in any one of your posts than most Trolls .
Unless there is an absolute bombshell to come (as Craig Murray has hinted), then I’m not going to get much bothered about what amounts to a fairly minor legal wrangle.
Cubby
Honestly, you have list the plot.
Whatever medication you are on definitely isn’t working.
Get down to that doctors of yours in the morning and tell him he needs to double the strength of your zoomer tabs.
O/T shocked to discover that no women have made it onto the Oscars’ Best Actor shortlist.
Women have their own wee Oscar competition.
In this day & age too.
Terrible insult.
I never attacked your business interest in Ghana Mr Murray. I simply posted that there was a contradiction in what you have posted about Ghana and it’s problems regarding mining and power supply,and yet another figure in authority there states you went to establish a power company only because you needed the money. According to his statement this was granted as a favour to you.
See how easy it is to misconstrued something,or not.
You appear to be a very thin skinned individual Craig.
Eyes on the prize, friends. Calm down, please. We can’t do anything about the civil service, Nicola or Alex.
For myself, I hope all in SNP and Yes are focusing on getting Scotland back in control of its own affairs.
@ Thepnr @ Craig Murray et al – there’s nothing the British state would like more than for Nicola Sturgeon to be got rid of – and Alex Salmond. For that reason, I take with a very large pinch of salt every attempt to divide and rule, to smear and to discredit.
The facts will emerge in time. For now, we stick together, keep calm and remain ready to take this opportunity to become independent. It is very close now. That probably explains the gathering storm of attacks.
@Craig Murray
You surprise me, having been an ambassador in Uzbekistan I would have expected you to have skin a bit thicker than you’ve shown tonight.
A “deeply personal attack” a bit melodramatic don’t you think?
@ Craig Murray
Honestly cant see who you’re trying to help or hinder in your blog.
We have enough from the yoons without one of “our own” trying to assassinate the character of the only person(at this present time) capable of delivering what we as a country need as a matter of life or death for some;Independence.
As for coco…..sir sir did ye get ma homework….Fanny.
Meanwhile in the world of brexit insanity, it seems the latest nonsense is that Tories want to place a time limit on the Irish backstop – clearly missing the actual reason for a ‘backstop’.
The EU is not going to accept a time limit on the backstop, so the whole discussion is pointless. Yet again, Tories talking amongst themselves, with little regard for whether or not the EU will agree.
Little Englandshire is really looking silly now.
Dr Jim says:
22 January, 2019 at 9:47 pm
@Lumilumi, nice to see you
We don’t see enough of you
Aww, nice to hear. I’m always for Scottish independence, but lately I’ve been more attuned to and attending our incoming GE in my country.
Worried about fascist, populist parties.The big three have lost a lot of voter confidence; I have to vote for something at least a bit different, not the mad privatisation of rail, health, social etc.
Some of this present gov’t say, look to Britain, privatisation has worked so well – really, they say that; and count on voters not seeking the facts and seeing that British privatisation is shit.
We, in my country, have to stop this kind of shit, the incipient fascism, but it’s difficult when the privatization party rolls out pretty young women as their candidates.
Thenk gods we have a GE coming, so we can vote out these shysters. Only, if we don’t. it’ll be more of humiliating the poor and the unemployed, cutting money from them to give tax-breaks to the wealthy.
We really need to vote for a better, more compassionate society. Lots of people want it – unless they have to pay more tax, like €2 per month. One or two €/£ per month. Is that tax burden so bad?
I’d gladly pay more tax if it meant investing in infrastructure. You know, better roads that don’t get all pot-holey. Rail infrastructure and maintenance. things like that.
Oh, yes, and I’d gladly pay much tax for school, education, even university.
BoJo and his Eton ilk don’t want bright, intelligent COMMMON people to mess up their club. Too bad the club is dreadful.
I mean, invoking the UK as something to aspire to… Just. No.
Craig (10:28pm) my comment this time round about you not posting articles about Unionist politicians related to you stating last time round on here that you didn’t do so as they were of no consequence to you … akin to cockroaches.
The core problem however, of your latest Nicola Sturgeon Baad renderings, is that you are insinuating that Nicola Sturgeon (and Liz Lloyd) was involved in the “stitch up” of Alex Salmond when you have no proof whatsoever to that effect. More than anything one wonders why you are doing this, basically lying about Nicola Sturgeon, when we are close to getting our Independence? You know lying about the one person, and that’s not you, who can actually achieve this for us.
And by the way I find your stance of people merely questioning your motives and “facts”, not through hatred by the way – far from it, to be “deeply disturbing.” Why shouldn’t we question what you have to say? Exempt from scrutiny or something? Surely you know, of all people, that the days of Scots meekly accepting everything that so-called “celebrities” have to say is well and truly over.
Ah well, as they say in Latinonia “ego, egis, egit, egamus, egatis, egunt”.
Roughly translated it means “aye aye, it’s an egg, you’re a git, we egg them on, it really is an egg and they’re all gunts”.
Ronnie Anderson
I don’t know you, and don’t want to, so I don’t care what you think of me either. But, I’m no gonnae rip into your character or trade insults like a big wean.
The independence cause is more important than any individual, it’s no about supporting Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond or any other individual.
So, I’m no gonnae lie for, or cover up for, the UK’s Colonial Scottish Govt when they do wrong or fail to do the right thing. I’m willing to praise them when I think they’ve got it right.
If you don’t like that, don’t read my posts.
Jezza@10.58pm
You must be well into double figures of offensive and abusive posts. It is you who have clearly lost the plot. All this abuse because I challenged you with a question about your post. Pretty pathetic.
Not even an initial reply – just straight into abuse. What a charming representative of the SNP you are. You seem to be obsessed about my health – no need to do so. Try acting like a decent human being. From where I am it does seem to be well beyond your capabilities.
At least Craig Murray doesn’t have someone on here calling him a f……..g lunatic.
Some news, posts, and comments accuse Nicola and Alex of simultaneously being at loggerheads and/or secretly in cahoots with one another through wrong-doing, cover ups and at times blind loyalty.
Despite this, I have no reason to lose faith in either one of them. I firmly believe they both have Scotland’s interest as their number one priority.
Everything else at this present moment in time I consider white noise made up of a combination of obfuscation, lies, smear tactics, ineptness and downright illegal covert operations.
Those who seek Independence must remain calm yet resolute. It is this tone of voice that should be heard in Scotland’s communities. It is imperative that people of good will, those who believe in a just and fair society, hear your voices to help them remain steadfast and undaunted.
Read more at: link to brainyquote.com
Craig Murry
Well I had questions about the contents of your article @5.22
And While I did and do hold that your explanation of Nicolas motives were indeed speculation I certainly didn’t make personal comments.
The thrust of my post was… I cannot see what else she (Nicola) could have done,that would have been a better response.
Why don’t you speculate here about what you think she could have/should have done differently and Mibbi we can break it down and explore the likely response?
A much more productive conversation don’t ye think and the kind that Wings was born for ..Eh!
@Colin Alexander
Are you well? Just wondering as you don’t sound like yourself.
Aaaarrgh I blew the third person should be “he she or it is a git”. That’s six of the best for me 🙁
Again 🙁
Cubby
I see you are carrying on with this mince right up until bedtime.
What point are you trying to prove???
Are you after the troll hunter general’s position.
Or is it the “Dick of the day” prize you are after???
If you ask me, you have won the “Dick of the day” prize hands down, ya loony.
Away and get your pajamas oan, or should that be your strait jacket?
There’s nothing you can do other than make up your own mind.
link to youtube.com
Perhaps Sturgeon is happy for Evans to stay in position because she is feeding her misleading info re intentions re her plans for independence and she knows it will go straight to Mundell/May. Keep them guessing.
Jezza@11.43pm
Trying to set a record for the most abusive person ever on Wings Jezza. More mental health abuse – pretty appalling conduct from someone who claims to be an SNP member
Your other childish insults just embarrass your self.
I know this post and thread has got arms and legs but why do people feel the need to fill a quiet time with utter garbage.
Everyone needs to take a breath and stop talking pish, we are where we are and we will just have to wait until the numptys at westminster give us the match to light the touch paper.
Stop posting bollocks, you all know who you are, just have a quiet lie down and we will see what might happen, no point in tearing appart the goal of independance with some of the bollocks ive read tonight, bloody well wake up and get your ducks in a row !
@ Bob Mack at 10:16pm …….
Thanks for that Bob. Very interesting.
Don’t tell him your name, Pike!
Thats an interesting notion there, Cubby @11.47pm
How fecking awesome would it be if she was doing just that !!
…….
I see you/we have attracted another one huh ?
Hey Jezza, you not been keeping up with recent events around here ?
Person abuse has been the demise of several sh*t-stirrers on here recently, all 3 of the most recent (rock,mac and mike) thought they were untouchable.
My advice?
Cease and desist before you get sent to the hammers room.
Tried to help mike but he thought he knew best, didn’t end well for him.
By all means post your opinions, and they will be respected if deemed genuine, but to simply resort to abuse will not be tolerated.
Up to you.
Interesting article on Craig Murray’s site. In a normal work environment, Evans would have been given a half hour to clear out her desk after what transpired in court, however The FM can’t be judged on retaining her “services” when she doesn’t have the power to remove her. I suppose there is the miniscule possiblility that the former FM has secretly been a white Bill Cosby all this time or the current FM is secretly using the independence cause to advance a secret global feminist conspiracy, but I doubt it.
Unless there are criminal charges against the former or documented evidence of lying against the latter, it’s all just a load of shite that is distracting people from the matter at hand. The impending removal of our rights and privileges as European citizens contrary to the expressed sovereign will of the people of Scotland. If our political class want to toss each other off in a he said / she said wankfest after independence good luck to them. Right now there is an existential threat to the social and economic well being of the Scottish nation. Perspective and focus is in order.
Cubby
How long does that sleeping tablet of yours take to work???
I told you,,,that medication you are on is crap.
And as for those loony pills you are on…
@ 11.30 “Those who seek Independence must remain calm yet resolute. It is this tone of voice that should be heard in Scotland’s communities. It is imperative that people of good will, those who believe in a just and fair society, hear your voices to help them remain steadfast and undaunted.”
Any other comment is otiose!
I watched the Sky news press preview tonight with stories of big business deserting Britain in their droves for well anywhere else that isn’t here and even now while they’re reporting all this we get partisan idiots like Tom Newton Dunn telling us it’s OK it’ll all be alright because Jeremy Corbyn has a plan
The thing is the whole of the British Isles is belatedly starting slowly to understand Jeremy Corbyn’s plan which rests on one thing in his mind *How do I get to be Prime Minister without being blamed for anything* the rest of it he couldn’t care less about
Jeremy Corbyn is a Hammer horror film grave robber hiding behind a wall waiting for the mourners to leave before he digs up the body to sell any jewellery that might be on it, or any gold left in the teeth
I have more respect for Theresa May’s bare toothed rat like rabid determination to get her own way than a dishonest Corbyn’s corpse robbing approach and when I say that I really really dislike Theresa May in the worst way so my contempt for Corbyn is almost beyond my capacity to conjure up sufficient adjectives to describe him
I said almost, I do have more words but fear of moderation compels limitation of language
@Iain mhor says: 22 January, 2019 at 7:45 pm:
” … Not often I have to back up and go “wait..what?” For one of your posts.
I’m really unclear here. Who stands on an Independence ticket again?”
Then, Iain, you have not been paying enough attention.
” … Not the SNP as a party for the last decade surely, or we’d be independent already following their majority.”
Them having a majority is neither here or there. They are a party whose main reason for being is to gain independence and it always has been.
The thing I’ve been trying to get across for many years is that little matter of legal sovereignty and what it means legally. It has nothing to do with Westminster rules dreamt up by Westminster elected English Nationalists to suit themselves and keep them dominating United Kingdom political power.
So it seems I have to go through it all yet again.
Legally, in The Kingdom of Scotland the people, not either the monarchy or the monarchy’s delegates in parliament, are legally sovereign.
Furthermore, when we elect them, we the legally sovereign people, do not relinquish our legal sovereignty to either the monarchy or the monarchy’s parliament because under Scottish law neither the monarch or the parliament are legally sovereign. Thus they must have our specific mandate to do anything whatsoever to alter the constitution. It really is as simple as that.
In the Kingdom of England the monarch is legally sovereign and, if you pay attention, you must realise this is the case. It is legally, “Her Majesty’s Government”. It is not Her Majesty’s Subjects Government. Just as it is Her Majesty’s Treasury, Her Majesty’s Customs & Excise, Her Majesty’s Armed Forces – in short, legally, Her Majesty owns everything including Her Majesty’s Subjects and every MP, MEP and Lord, Lady, Soldier, Sailor, Police Officer and every thing else is Her Majesty’s.
However, when the Parliament of The Kingdom of England rebelled against their rightful monarch and deposed him they changed the law, (but only slightly), and when they invited the next in line Protestant to assume the throne, (ignoring all higher in line Roman Catholics), it was on condition that they legally delegated their Royal Sovereignty to the Parliament of England but both kingdoms were independent in 1688 and when they did unite the Treaty of Union states that the two legal systems must remain forever independent.
The two legal systems are still independent today. In 1320 the legal system of Scotland was accepted by the then international authority, that means it was accepted by all Christendom that Scotland was an independent Kingdom and furthermore that the people, not the monarchy, were legally sovereign. That is still the situation today. Thing is that from 1 May 1707, there hasn’t been an English Parliament – elected or otherwise.
Westminster is legally the United Kingdom Parliament and there are only two kingdom partners that comprise the United Kingdom. It is a kingdom – not a country and that makes devolution illegal.
Now the point is that as the people are legally sovereign in Scotland neither the leader of the ruling political party nor the First Minister, note the FM is NOT Her Majesty’s First Minister she is the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s First Minister of THEIR parliament and neither the First Minister nor the parliament are sovereign.
There is a basic rule of sovereignty. It states that simply by being sovereign the sovereign cannot give away sovereignty. That, BTW, is stated in English law. The Monarch cannot give away the kingdom’s sovereignty but can only abdicate it.
When a monarch dies the proclamation is, “The King/Queen is dead – Long live the Queen/King”.
Up to Queen Elizabeth I of England the monarch left the sovereignty to their choice of who was to replace them on their death. It was written in their will.
So, there you go, neither Nicola nor the SG can change the constitution without the stated permission of a majority of the entire adult population of the Kingdom of Scotland.
So here’s the thing, The Kingdom of England cannot have legal sovereignty over the people of Scotland because we, not the Queen or the parliament of either Westminster or Holyrood are legally sovereign in Scotland.
Nicola has a mandate to hold a referendum in order to get the permission of the legally sovereign people of Scotland to declare The Treaty of Union is ended – She does not have a mandate to unilaterally declare the Country of Scotland is independent. In other words The Kingdom of Scotland is not leaving the United Kingdom and thus leaving behind a still united kingdom, (you cannot have an rUnited Kingdom with just one kingdom).
We will simple be ending the Treaty of Union that is the Written Constitution of the United Kingdom. Why else did you imagine the Britnat control freaks did not construct a written constitution that would have made strict rule that would be in direct contravention of the Treaty of Union?
Looked at another way – as the Treaty of Union is the agreement that formed the United Kingdom – then if there is no Treaty of Union there is no United Kingdom and Westminster has ignored the Treaty of Union agreement from 1 May 1707.
Now if that lot doesn’t make good grammatical sense I’m sorry but my eyes were closing in sleep before I began to write it.
An interesting bit of night reading here:
link to publications.parliament.uk
“Monday 28 January 2013 – Witness: Nicola Sturgeon MSP, Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Infrastructure, Investment and Cities, gave evidence”
Page ev 48 and on a bit!
I’d forgotten what a dick the Chair of that session was, a basically misogynistic dick as well. Anyways, to come to the verdict over the “SNP needs a new leader” thing. There’s no way Salmond could become leader and hence FM for a matter of years for obvious reasons to anyone with a clue, even if that was wanted. There are ongoing slow investigations.
So the next question is, if Sturgeon goes, who? Can anyone suggest anyone who is more suited and capable to be both the SNP leader and the FM? And the front person for Indy?
Answers on a postcard, no stamp required, to: Freepost 77, Precious Union (Lost Cause Office), Dover House, London, SW1A 2AU. Where in some cases the suggestion clearly originates.
@ yesindyref2 …..
Looks interesting yesindyref2. However 182 pages! Forget about tonight, lol. I’ll start on it in the morning.
@yesindyref2
An interesting read full of Westminster suppositions and I don’t know’s and mibbees which is generally a clear sign that everything will be fine especially if Mr Lidington thinks it might not be, but overall a meeting about having meetings with our side saying we think we can and their side saying probably you can but it’s not definite and that’s a worry
Just shows though even back then when in public they were saying it was all impossible in private they were saying it was possible and probable
The one thing it did show was that Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown and all that lot were enormous black hearted liars when they screamed at the people *you’re all doomed*
@yesindyref2 – I read three pages – very interesting as you say. Why were they banging on about legal advice?
Nicola seemed to have all necessary information at her fingertips – sizeable brain she has!
If anything happened to her, what about Mike Russell as FM? Tho’ as Keith Brown is Deputy Leader wouldn’t he get the job?
It shows the lack of ego on Nicola Sturgeon’s part that she chose Michael Russell as the best man for the Brexit stuff because he is and not herself, that’s proper delegation and brains
@Petra
You don’t have to read it all! Start at page ev 48 through to (haven’t got there myself yet) ev 64 for Sturgeon. Though the rest might be of some interest I guess.
Jings, she’s sharp as mustard. So far, page ev56 for me, nobody got anything over here – and they were trying, very trying. No wonder some (and I don’t mean CM) want to get rid of her, she’s out of their league, way above.
Mmm, cup of tea and more reading 🙂
Absolute state o the place ffs. 🙂 It’s better when the late night drunken crew are on patrol tbh.
He said, she said – you are, he’s no – he is but she’s no – 77th, 5th column, deep state, You’re a plant, Mi5, Mi6 – You’re a troll, no ahm no – aye ye are – dinnae like it dinnae read it, Brexit, Tories, sovereignty, Nicola, Alex, Evans, Murray SNP baaad.
Some kerry on.
I think the whole lot o yiz need a wee lie doon 😉 Let the real mad squad take over fir a wee while. 🙂
@Dr Jim / @Sarah
Sorry, first time I’ve actually fully read it and taken my time. Before for that and others like it, it was a very quick skim followed by a posting at 4am in a certain publication 🙂
William Wallace – I’d love to go for a snooze but I’m reading Wings as a respite instead of dealing with a law case in connection with my parents’ house – nasty nasty neighbour refusing access down “his” lane… Costing us a fortune and won’t be able to make him pay costs because it will end up “by consent”.
So even a row on Wings is better than that…
“Ah feckit thiv discovert wur wee island,noo wil be overun wi
bible thumpers n tories,n wi cannae go tae scoatland cause
it’s no independant yet,an ah’ve no perfected ma scoattish
accent yit,an ah wantit tae go n see nessie as well,feck
wil jist need tae go back tae wir ane planet!”
“Never you mind yon scoatland disnae look lik it’ll put upwae
that shite much longer,then wi kin come back,bit right noo
thurs a shit cumin doon fae uranus…och a meant tae say
ship…wit um ah like!”
Mmm, you’re in the thick (2012-14) of fighting the Ref and answering questions, and fending off garbage project fear unionist crap, and you don’t realise just how much was actually known and understood by the ScotGov / SNP. But not easily available in notelets on the YES Scotland website 🙁 Would have saved a lot of reading and research. Sheesh, she was well-informed. Not that that’s a surprise but like I say, you’re too busy chopping down trees in your way to admire the forest.
@ Sarah
Sorry to hear that. I wasn’t referring to you in terms of needing a lie doon either. It was more tongue in cheek in relation to all the squabblers.
Maybe we could get a wee posse together and occupy his lane for a bit 😉 Put his gas at a peep. 🙂
WHAT! Nicola Sturgeon’s a ‘feminist’? Well blow me over with a big giant tractor…of course that’s why she’s in a wee clique wi ither quines tae ‘Get Alex’.
Your piece has merit in terms of your ‘insider’ knowledge, but the bit where you start ‘speculating’ really is just that, there’s no a thing up wi noticing that for what it is.
Murky horrible stuff from the ither twa quines, no doubt. But the attempt at ‘inferring/stating/outrightly suggesting’ that Nicola’s motives are ‘suspect’ because of her support for women and her wider gender politics is rather far fetched and it’s actually okay for people to disagree with your analysis, even if just on the basis that this is not her MO in the way you seem to believe that it is in your article.
And spare us the ‘dramatic’ flouncing eh?
————————-
‘For the last two years I’ve warned and warned about a rot in the SG under Nicola Sturgeon’s leadership.’
Oh fuck off fanboy. Bandwagon jumping numpty.
Divide and conquer. This is all any of this is about.
End.
It’s OK folks you can stop worrying about Brexit Michelle Mone says everything’s going to be fine
After 5 to 7 years of poverty, so that’ll be well worth it then
Can’t wait
@WW – I’d love to see that posse!! Saltires, bagpipes, tartans..If only this lane problem wasn’t in Kent! Believe me I fantasise about what a squad of righteous avengers could do to this bloke and his house. Would you believe he has planted hedges on the right of way to make parking and turning difficult? In the law papers he says he won’t remove them – they are there for decorative effect!!
As for the snooze, I realised you weren’t referring to me – it just sounded so appealing! And where’s Cactus when you need him to take the space from the quarrelsome folk?
Bed for me. I’d recommend anyone to read that, pp ev 48 – 64, if you haven’t already:
link to publications.parliament.uk
It sets out (ScotGov) positions on the EU, Euro, Schengen, NATO and foreign policy that are still valid, with the possibility that the EU one is even stronger because of Brexit. Oh, and the succession of states thing. Things may have changed a little but absent anything to the contrarty, it stands.
Yeah, Russell is one of the most interesting of choices for Brexit, and what a tremendous choice that has been.
zzzzzzzz
@ Sarah
Jeez, he sounds like a right arse. Cut them down in the dead of night 😉
With you on Cactus. He is the perfect night watchman and is excellent at disrupting the flow of nonsense by injecting this space with a little of his own.
@William Wallace
Cactus looks a wee bit like this and I believe that’s how he feels 🙂
link to youtube.com
Sorry Cactus an old link this is the one I meant.
link to youtube.com
Thepnr – I enjoyed both of those. Thanks!
@ PNR
🙂
A cross between that and this
link to youtube.com
🙂
I met him at one of the marches last year and my immediate thought was “this guy looks like he belongs at a high stakes poker table”. He has the riverboat gambler look about him 😉
Sarah
Don’t cut them down (as you probably know) you’ll be the one in trouble..
Get yerself some Red Diesel and put it round the border on your own land the roots on your side won’t survive.
As for hedge surviving with roots only on its owners side….
I couldn’t possibly say!!!
Oh you deviant so and so Liz G 😉
@William Wallace
Hahahahaha I think you’ve nailed it a cross between the two.
Ooh, Liz, that’s an idea! [Smiley thing!]
William & Sarah
Whit can ah say…. Everyone goes off the rails on here without Cactus to see us through the night!!
Is Murray trying to destroy the Independence Movement because of some deluded too easily offended people? What an imbecile. With friends like these who needs enemies.
May still delusional as all crashes and burns around her. It is just complete and utter chaos. Impossible givernment. How much longer can it go on. Another day another nightmare.
It could be migrant Johnston or migrant family Hunt for PM trying to chuck out people. After this mess the Tories will be completely and utterly finished. Destroyed the UK and their Party. What a bunch of complete and utter criminals. Migrant family Tomkins wants to be FM. What a.complete and utter joke. Only nearly outdone by Rennie, Leonard and the rest of them.
Evans will be gone err long, The Independence movement will carry on. Scotland would be Independent now if it was not for STV and D’Hond’t illegally implemented by Evans without a mandate.
FGS, still going round in circles. Forget about Brexit, per se. This 31 month debacle has given people insight into the minds, motives, (in) actions and consequences of the intellectual dross that’s “running” the country. The very same people who have the brass neck to think that we, Scots, couldn’t do better than them. Ignorance is bliss, right enough.
link to independent.co.uk
Dyson moves to tax evade.
Uk companies start to relocate due to brexit fears and others stockpile
link to archive.is
I think the EU are just giving the UK some of their own blackmail back over the Irish border
The UK threatening to no deal Brexit so the EU says go ahead we’ll put up a border and it’ll be your fault not ours but you’ll have to deal with the fallout
A bit of bluff and bluster going on to see who’s going to draw first
Dr Jim @ 00:28,
You have a wonderful turn of phrase at times which really makes me chuckle. A great tonic (not least among the sometime bickering dross). Cheers me up no end. Thank you!
You have Corbyn down to a tee. Keeps on demanding a GE that he knows he won’t get because in admitting it he would have to come off the fence over EURef2. Just a fellow delusional time-wasting partner to May.
As to the business pull-out, it’s been happening “under the radar” for a while, but it seems well under way now. Businesses can’t afford to wait for clarity, so are putting their plans into action now. (A useful lesson to be learnt?)
But what a contrast from IR1, when it was full-on bleating, empty bluster and hot air from them, whereas now they are really moving out, and with scarcely a murmur.
Liz g 3.03am. Or a few litres of neat cheap bleach from wilko.
yesindyref2 says:
23 January, 2019 at 2:29 am
Bed for me. I’d recommend anyone to read that, pp ev 48 – 64, if you haven’t already:
link to publications.parliament.uk
It sets out (ScotGov) positions on the EU, Euro, Schengen, NATO and foreign policy that are still valid, with the possibility that the EU…
Did you you read it?
“144. We also have concerns about the extent to which seemingly unfounded assertions and what are essentially initial negotiating positions are being presented as incontrovertible facts and conclusions. For instance, on the specific issues of state succession, opt-outs to the EU Treaties and whether EU Treaty change would be required to facilitate Scotland’s EU membership, we are concerned that the Scottish Government is strenuously advocating legal positions without the benefit of official legal advice from its law officers. Indeed, we are perplexed that legal advice has not been sought at all on these issues.“
My emphasis.
I am unaware of any such legal advice being secured, but very much aware of the separate initiative and progressive legal action taken to the ECJ to establish whether Article 50 could be revoked. This action was not only successful in its objective, but secured Legal Personality to have the case heard under Scots Law, not UK Law, and affirmed that the UK Supreme Court had no jurisdiction to contest the potency of Scots Law. Powerful and significant benchmark rulings which you would imagine might register with pro Independence bodies across the complete spectrum. But no. No follow up.
The ECJ affirmed revocation of Article 50 was the sovereign prerogative of the Nation which signed Article 50, and not withstanding the arbitrary right for Scotland to revoke Article 50 unilaterally as a Sovereign entity itself, even the ramifications of merely seeking clarity from the ECJ on whether Scotland could revoke Article 50 unilaterally would have profound significance over both Brexit and Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty and Independence. It WOULD create a Constitutional Scottish Backstop.
To quote…”Indeed we are perplexed that legal advice has not been sought at all on these issues…”
Aye. I’m perplexed alright. Mind, there’s only 65 days left to be perplexed, because then it is too late. It might even be too late already.
Give me one good reason NOT to seek this clarification. It might very well be our lifeline to survive Brexit, and therein lies the profoundly deep suspicion and anxiety…
@Andrew Gordon says: 23 January, 2019 at 12:04 am:
” … I know this post and thread has got arms and legs but why do people feel the need to fill a quiet time with utter garbage.”
Ever considered, Andrew, that your comments may well be considered as being garbage by those that you opine to be posting garbage?
Wings is, (more or less), an open forum and what sets Wings head and shoulders above other forums is that Rev Stu very rarely ever bans anyone from posting their views. This stops Wings from becoming, like most others, a wee cosy group with the Rev setting a topic and everyone else agreeing with Stu.
Wings is not only a brilliant blog with the Rev Stu’s articles and a few other brilliant contributors of articles, (and cartoons), but the debates and arguments, and the occasional, (virtual), fist fight are what sets Wings apart.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with differing opinions nor is there anything wrong with strong views. It is actually a healthy trait and that is how it should be – you cannot win arguments by walking away from them and you don’t gain better understanding of matters by blocking out all alternative ideas.
I have fallen out with several other Wingers but here’s the point – I’ve never wanted any of them to be banned from stating their views here on Wings. For example I almost totally ignore Rock, only answering when something he/she posts is mentioned by others. However, I have never challenged his or her right to state an opinion or to disagree with someone else’s opinion.
” … Everyone needs to take a breath and stop talking pish, we are where we are and we will just have to wait until the numptys at westminster give us the match to light the touch paper.”
Well no, we do not just have to wait for Westminster to decide for us. However, it is of the greatest importance that when we act on our own initiative we do so together and that requires us to not only have a leadership but to have a leadership that knows what it is doing and if we do not have that strength of belief in our leadership we would be as well throwing in the sponge now and saving everyone’s time and efforts.
I believe the moment of telling Westminster the people of Scotland have decided their own fate is about to happen today when Nicola Sturgeon meets with Theresa May in Westminster.
I trust Nicola and the SNP to know exactly what they are doing and by all, even BBC Jockland Radio, Nicola is about to tell Theresa that, “The time is now.” and she, (Theresa), had better believe it.
Aunty, (with a kilt), reports that Nicola is to tell Theresa that Scotland has another option that no parts of the Kingdom of England has. That option is that the United Kingdom is exactly that – a two partner kingdom with only two equally sovereign kingdoms partners, and the time has come for the Treaty of Union to end by one equally sovereign partner kingdom ending the agreement.
That, however, requires that the SNP/SG has a mandate from the legally sovereign people of Scotland and there are, far as I can figure out, only two ways for the SG to obtain such a mandate.
These are to hold indyref2 or for Westminster to call a general election in which the SNP stands on an independence now ticket. The latter choice is in the remit of the Westminster Parliament that in spite of running the UK as a quadratic setup of four countries with Westminster being the de facto parliament of the country of England that is treating the other countries as dominions of England. Which setup is not even mentioned in the Treaty of Union that, whether Westminster likes it or not, is not part of the Treaty of Union.
In point of fact there is not a single mention of the words country or countries in the entire Treaty of Union and the Treaty of Union is the actual Written Constitution of the United Kingdom. There is nothing else that constituted the United Kingdom and thus the Westminster Parliament of that United Kingdom.
Westminster has deliberately ignored the truth that the Treaty of Union created a two partner united kingdom and not a unified country with England in charge as the sovereign authority.
Far as I can see today Nicola is about to tell that wee truth to Theresa May.
Newcomers to WoS must think thon Chris Cairns is a hell of a popular guy with nearly 900 posts about him.
Robert Peffers @ 8.29am
Auld Boab, another terrific post Sir; I am so hopeful that you are correct and Nicola does give Mother Theresa both barrels when they meet today.
You have written that factual piece on how the UK is constituted, and how England ignores that actual constitution so often – but still some people fail to grasp the reality.
To quote a line of the Bard’s which I feel is particularly relevant this week: “Now’s the day, and now’s the hour.” Nicola kens her Burns, hopefully she’ll use that line.
Undeadshuan says:
23 January, 2019 at 7:20 am
Uk companies start to relocate due to brexit fears and others stockpile
link to archive.is
Watch the price of those stockpiled goods shoot through the roof as we are fed stories in the tabloids about “shortages” triggering panic buying!
Robert Peffers says:
Certainly hope so!
Clearly many Scots, including Yessers, aren’t clear about the reality of the UK. Changing that, and making everyone aware of the true picture is a solid foundation which needs to be laid, and soon.
Dr Jim @1.10am
Russell has been an SNP star throughout this whole Brexit process. Better than any of the diddies at Westminster.
yesindyref2 says:
23 January, 2019 at 2:29 am
Bed for me. I’d recommend anyone to read that, pp ev 48 – 64, if you haven’t already:
Most of which I found depressing and contemptuous towards Scotland, together with a profound ignorance. (English exceptionalism writ large)
I recommend reading a little further to the witness statements – take note the tone by the chair towards Nicola Sturgeon (then, as Deputy First Minister)
W.E.F.@DAVOS….an avalanche or two, that would do nicely.
Jezza@ 12.17am
More personal abuse from Jezza – king of the offensive comment. Does your SNP branch know that this is your behaviour. Just where are you a SNP member Jezza ? Are you really an SNP member?
Probably something like 15 offensive posts from Jezza all because I asked him a question about his post.
Robert 8:29am
Would be fantastic if you were correct but what is being trailed about the meeting is
She said: “The time has come for the Brexit clock to be stopped, through a formal extension of Article 50 to allow a second referendum on EU membership to be held. We simply cannot afford to be dragged any closer to the cliff edge of no deal – an outcome which should now be explicitly and definitively ruled out”
Sounds like more of the same to me. Same as last month , same as last year.
link to blogs.gov.scot
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to agriland.co.uk
Stewart McDonald MP writes
link to tellmamauk.org
link to jbi.scholasticahq.com
link to scottishhousingnews.com
link to scotland.org
link to peterabell.blog
link to change.org
But after 29 January it will be clear, either Mays deal (Mark two) succeeds, or there’s no time left.
If brexit article 50 were further delayed, the tory cabinet has hinted it will call a state of emergency before March as no deal would become inevitable.
link to facebook.com
Think it’s time to watch this again. Share the video
LONDON CALLING: BBC bias during the 2014 Scottish independence referendum
link to youtube.com
link to indyscotnews.com
Another one to watch and share
link to drive.google.com
link to handsoffscotland.co.uk
This Government’s #Brexit shambles is trashing the UK’s international reputation and businesses are already paying the price, like those in my constituency already counting the cost.
video
link to twitter.com
Vodafone staff in Glasgow told to move or face redundancy
link to archive.is
link to politico.eu
Degradation of border security’ under ‘no-deal’ Brexit, warns UK Border Force
link to archive.is
Good thread on Brexit
Brace for mega thread on “ALL THEM RULES INNIT”
link to twitter.com
link to politics.co.uk
Whitehall staff on standby for ‘command and control’ in no-deal Brexit
link to archive.is
Wake up at the back there, Sir Ivan Rogers has just delivered another 11,000 word broadside. I have read. Some highlights. 1/thread
link to twitter.com
Thread by @uk_domain_names: “Here are 180 factual, fully-sourced examples of the impact Brexit is already having on the UK. Jobs going, invesmpanies moving assets to the EU, or redomiciling. All happening as Government burns through £billions chasing […]”
link to threadreaderapp.com
link to thelondoneconomic.com
THREAD. 1/ Today @amnesty publish an analysis which shows how some European leaders are deliberately manufacturing a “migration crisis” for political gain.
link to twitter.com
link to evolvepolitics.com
link to talkradio.co.uk
link to taxresearch.org.uk
Owen Paterson trips worth £39,000 funded by unknown donors
Dark money
link to archive.is
Sorry Edwina, it’s the Tories that lost. You lost your majority. You lost your reputation as the party of business and fiscal prudence. You lost control of the country. As this plays out, you will lose control of the Union.
link to threadreaderapp.com
We will never be fully prepared for Brexit, says civil service chief
link to archive.is
LSE moves bond trading from London to Italy ahead of Brexit
link to archive.is
Shinty I 2nd that but why should the Scottish Gov consent to take part in the 1st instance Vince Cable , the time & people who Scottish Gov would have any discussion with are the EU when we’re Independent & british gov shouldn’t be setting the format for those discussions .
For much of last 20 years, Scottish Tories have tried to reinvent themselves as pro devolution. This story is latest reminder that it’s actually an inflexible unionism that drives them. In what other country would elected MPs argue against greater influence over key decisions?
link to twitter.com
link to insider.co.uk
link to gulfnews.com
link to inews.co.uk
I note that Tory MPs from Scotland don’t want the SG to play a part in future trade negotiations.
Of course they don’t! Their mission is to undermine the SG and ideally destroy it. They want direct rule from their beloved WM!
They want Scotland to be no more than a quaint tartan, bagpipes, and shortbread bedecked region of their Greater England.
So nothing new here!
Does everyone who gave them their vote agree this this vision? Almost certainly not, though quite a few will!
@Breeks and Shinty
I didn’t specify that very well. ev 48 to ev64 are the evidence pages, they correspond to pdf pages 114 to 130
link to publications.parliament.uk
That’s Sturgeon, and it’s what she says is interesting, not the usual UK Government conclusion “Scotland is pish and doomed” you get in ALL those UK Gov reports.
So 6 army trucks were seen heading into derry on Friday…. car bomb on Saturday and security alerts all day today…. just as a border poll is becoming a reality all of sudden these attacks start! Call me cynical but this has ‘brits’ or ‘agents’ written all over it!!!
link to twitter.com
link to politico.eu
“The relationship of Great Britain to Europe was always very…patchy.”
Video – German Chancellor Angela Merkel discusses Brexit
link to twitter.com
SNP policy of free university tuition ‘vindicated’ says expert
link to archive.is
Breeks @ 8.18
There is the added important point that not only is Scotland in the process of being dragged out of the EU against its will, but the Leave campaign also broke electoral law in achieving its objectives.
Why should we accept any of this when the result was obtained through foul means.
Surely that makes even stronger grounds to legally contest what is happening.
@yesindyref2 says: 23 January, 2019 at 12:52 am:
” … So the next question is, if Sturgeon goes, who? Can anyone suggest anyone who is more suited and capable to be both the SNP leader and the FM? And the front person for Indy?”
Yes, yesindyref2, there are many including Alyn Smyth, Ms Cherry and the current leader of the Westminster SNP group. However, that question is academic as the leader of the SNP, as a party is chosen by the party and the <Leader of the SG is chosen by the entire Holyrood Government.
The main thing is, though, is that both the SNP as a party and the SG as a government are, unlike Westminster, not a one man/woman band. As a party the SNP the leadership cannot even form party policies – that can only be done by the delegates sent to National Conference by the rank and file party members.
While the MSM would have us believe that Nicola is a dictator this is not in fact true.
It will not have been Nicola alone who decided to tell Theresa that the Scottish Kingdom has the option of becoming independent for Nicola doesn't have that authority.
Contrast that with the powers held by the Queen of England's Prime Minister. Note I term that as The Queen of England's Prime Minister and that is in fact the truth. The Prime Minister is Her Majesty of England's legally, (under English law), appointed minister.
In fact the Queen of England, is legally sovereign and the Queen summons, "her", choice, (in practice it is the choice of Her Majesty's Privy Council).
The Privy Council, "advise", the monarch and she is, more or less, legally bound to follow that advice. Thing is that was only the law of the Westminster Parliament of the Kingdom of England after the Glorious Revolution of 1688 but in 1688 that parliament did not include the still independent Kingdom of Scotland and it permanently put itself into recession in April 1707 and has never sat again since that date. Westminster is not the continued Kingdom of England parliament.
It is the United Kingdom government and there are only two signatory kingdoms in the United Kingdom and it remains a united kingdom and has never been a legal union of four countries and certainly has not legally put the country of England in Charge of the United Kingdom.
Now remember how Blair took the United Kingdom to war without even getting the permission of the Westminster government. In effect he was using the Queen of England's sovereignty and the Queen of England is not sovereign in Scotland.
Get the picture? Westminster has just ignored the Treaty of Union since day one of what they claim is still a united kingdom but is in practice the parliament of the country of England assuming it is the master and the rest of the actual United Kingdom their dominions.
@galamcennalath
We really just have to realise that the Tories in Scotland are really just our version of the DUP. They want total control from Westminster, the local parliament shut down (or made useless). This ensures Tory rule in Scotland for the majority of the time, even though they have not won an election here in over 60 years.
What is more perplexing is the Labour and LibDem position (especially the LibDem) who could have been a force in an independent Scotland. Instead they are just metoo Tories.
Robert,
Indeed. The legal advice on going to war with Iraq was provided by the Attorney General of England and Wales, Lord Goldsmith. The Scottish law officers were not even consulted – but Goldsmith flew to Washington to consult the American law officers!
I have always thought that was fascinating, and something we have never made enough of at Holyrood.
Fintan O’Toole in conversation with James O’Brien
Can you pull the table cloth out and leave all the cutlery, plates and glasses standing?
link to twitter.com
Taiwan opposes UK’s WTO services trade arrangement after Brexit
link to taiwannews.com.tw
link to thenational.scot
@Davie Oga says: 23 January, 2019 at 9:12 am:
” … Would be fantastic if you were correct … ”
I am correct. There can be no other interpretation than that it is. Theresa is being told that Scotland alone in the, “United Kingdom”, has another option. It matters not what the MSM and the broadcasters would have us believe. At the level these events are taking place the people involved must stick by diplomatic protocols.
For example the protagonists will not directly threaten their opposite number but their meaning will be perfectly clear. In this case what Nicola is telling Theresa May is – “Watch it wifie or I’ll have to call a referendum on the Kingdom of Scotland’s independence”. The implication is that if Theresa says, “Now is not the time”, she means. “Tough titty toots, I’m not giving you a section 30 order”.
The result is going to be exactly the same as if Nicola had said, “We’ve had enough of you lot. We are going to declare independence – what you gonna do aboot that?”
There is a protocol for diplomatic actions. There are many examples where the news report was just that the Ambassador in a certain country, “Had sent a letter of protest”, to the leader in whatever country he was in. This is just about equivalent to a threat to declare war. After all the Ambassador could probably have walked less than a few hundred yards to the office of the president concerned and threatened him with an invasion. It probably took more time and effort to write that letter.
Believe me what is getting reported is a momentous event and Westminster will be well aware that it is. After all Nicola could have said nothing and just came out with it before the press and broadcasters could do anything to stop her.
Why do you think that Nicola has alerted the media of what is about to go down? The first reaction will be for May to attempt to force Nicola to retract her threat of Scottish Independence. I’d just about bet on that. I expect May to try a counter punch of some sort. Probably some form of, “Now is not the time”.
I also expect Nicola has already though of all possible counter measures and has them all covered. Make no mistake this is a direct threat by the SNP to begin the process of going all out for legal independence.
There’ll be a hot time in the old town tonight:-
link to youtube.com
@RP
Sure, a party isn’t just one person. But a point of my digging up that HoC interrogation of Sturgeon was to show that she’s head and shoulders above anyone else, so calls for her to stand down are really stupid, and a negative for Independence. But as for CM’s article, which I daresay Sturgeon will read, if it’s taken as a warning NOT to put gender politics before anything else, then it serves its purpose.
Posted Altered state video at 9.20 which is not available right now due to heavy traffic.
You can view it here instead
link to twitter.com
Nana & do we find posting on that video Colin Alexander Storrier @Independentscot lol .
Nana said at 11:28 am:
“Posted Altered state video at 9.20 which is not available right now due to heavy traffic.
You can view it here instead”:
link to twitter.com
Thankyou Nana—-I’ve tried several times at work to view this —–and failed.
It’s just over one minute in length.
Many thanks. [smile]
There’s a new link for “Altered State” on the WOS Twitter page.
link to wetransfer.com
I’ve just downloaded it – and found that it’s the same video I downloaded from Vimeo on 6th December 2015.
Why the spike in interest in the past 24 hours? Jis askin’, like…
@BDTT
Probably because of this retweet by the Rev.
link to twitter.com
News on GMS
Alex Salmond has been arrested by the Police. Details to follow.
I wonder what Police Scotland are up to, and on who’s instruction? All will come clear soon.