Chris Cairns is on holiday
Posted on
January 19, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Yes, still. Yes, again. But don’t worry, we still have a cartoon joke for you.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Scottish Labour Party.
3 million anti Tory UK votes. The Tories would never get into power again.
300,000+ SNP/Independence migrant votes. SNP/Independence is won,
Dr Jim
I hae ma doots about the denial of self-determination legal grounds if an S30 is refused.
I fear that a court would say the same as myself and many others: independence could be democratically achieved by elections and the people of Scotland / SNP have not been prevented from seeking a mandate for independence that way.
If the SNP choose not to use that GE option, then that’s the SNP’s own voluntary policy decision, not the fault of the UK state.
Here we go again…one flew over the coco’s nest.
Just watched May in the house. Since the unmeaningful vote she would be as well letting the body language match the stance by putting her hands over her ears and sining La la la la la la la …..
I’m convinced as she repeats adnosia we will be leaving the 29th March it’ a case of Follow the Big Money and averting the EU’s incoming new financial regulations to force tax heavens and funds to declare and account the owners, value of accounts exposing where money came from, if and where tax was paid and it being illegal for fund managers and advisors to attempt to create avoidance.
The EU is closing down financial corruption and tax avoidance.
Of coarse May will be well schooled of the ramifications by her city fund manger consultancy husband. Such a parcel of Rogues …..
“I hae ma doots”
I prefer fresh tobacco in a roll-up.
Theresa May wants Brexit talks with Nicola Sturgeon
Theresa May is to meet Nicola Sturgeon on Wednesday after pledging to give the Scottish government an “enhanced role” in future Brexit talks.
link to archive.is
———————————————————
Ha! I feel a vow bubbling to the surface. 🙂
Robert Louis @ 6.21pm
Yeah but, yeah but….
I agree with you entirely that anybody can hold a ref whenever they like about anything. Don’t think anybody disputes that but, it’s necessary to have it recognised by WM because if it’s not, then we’re sure as hell not going to have the result recognised by other nations – which is what is really important. Also, ‘Better Together’ would have every reason to boycott the whole thing, which despite some people’s delight at the prospect, would only weaken the chances of the result being recognised internationally.
I’ll say again, it doesn’t matter how WM views Scotland, it doesn’t really matter how Scotland views Scotland, but it really, really does matter how other nations view Scotland which is why we MUST get it right.
” Theresa May is to meet Nicola Sturgeon on Wednesday after pledging to give the Scottish government an “enhanced role” in future Brexit talks. “
Too little, too late. Tell her to F’Off, Nicola. Call IndyRef2. Now is almost the time.
Many companies based in england will be looking for EU based countries to build their products or to base their Banks in.
Scotland must let them know that we will be opening for EU business at at the earliest opportunity.
France and Germany waiting like a couple of vultures to snap up London’s Financial Services Sector.
You see,,,,there is an upside to Brexit,,,,it’s not all doom and gloom.
Ironically, if a home-built Referendum was challenged in court and survived the challenge, Spain might be the first country to recognise Independent Scotland.
Aye! T May wants to meet Nicola next week to discuss future Brexit negotiations after her deal has been accepted…. don’t forget that bit.
So, once the Withdrawal Bill has been accepted,
i.e. after the power grab which was rejected by cross-party support from Holyrood,
after taking the S Gov to court to drive a bus over our legislation and our decision making, – so once we’ve established that WM has rendered Holyrood unable to legislate – and ONLY then, she wants to involve Scotland in future talks.
Aye right!
Nicola Sturgeon should refuse any talks with the Tories, they had plenty time to talk over the last two years but decided to ignore the very existence of Scotland.
What cheek these Tories have and a brass neck to boot, expect nothing from the Tories and avoid disappointment.
Sounds to me as if T May is sounding out as many facets of ‘society’ as possible to draw up their wish list to construct a manifesto for the next GE.
She’s going to push her deal through and then go for an election and hope to get the DUP off her back and increase her majority – then she will do whatever she wants regardless of what she has promised in these last and next few days.
LA, LA, la, LA, LA
I posted this on the
link to wingsoverscotland.com
page on the 18th.
———————————————-
RE: The Claim of Rights.
This quote is taken from the link below. (My capitalisation.)
“Under James VII during the ‘Glorious Revolution’ the “Thrie Estaites” looked again at the contractual notion of Scottish kingship, and offered the throne to William and Mary on the basis of the 1689 Claim of Right, which was enacted into Scots Law as a statute and REMAINS ON THE LEGAL BOOKS OF THE UK TO THIS DAY. In Scottish constitutional terms Elizabeth, Queen of Scots, is on the throne because the people say so, and if we decide the House of Windsor is in breach of its contract they can be expelled just like James VII before them.
For example, if the Queen were to publicly state that she did not wish Scotland to be independent (as many of the Unionist persuasion like to claim), she would be acting contrary to the requirements of the 1689 Claim of Right, as it is not within her power to decide on this issue nor use her position to influence the decision in any way – Elizabeth, as Queen of Scots, must accede to the wishes of the Scottish people, or lose the right to the Scottish crown.”
link to wingsoverscotland.com
————————————–
link to oireachtas.ie
Meanwhile, Ireland celebrates 100y of parliamentary democracy…just, for info…?
Starlaw
I’m sure Nicola feels she disnae want to talk wi’ T may but if she refuses, it’s a gift to the Tories. Look at the amount of times they’re blaming Corbyn for no’ holding talks wi’ her.
Who knows, maybe Nicola will turn the tables round and ask for a reply to her letter of two years ago asking for a S 30 agreement.
Jeez!
Just reading on the BBC Scotland website that a nuclear submarine and a Stena ferry on the N. Ireland route had a close encounter in November!
link to bbc.co.uk
The nuclear sub was submerged and operating at periscope depth – presumably the conversation went something like: –
” …I’m not sure exactly where we are Captain, probably close to N. Ireland…. dive, dive. dive!!! “
Contrary to popular opinion of activists from either side, there are many many things that unite Scots whatever our consitutional preference, and whisky is one of them. Sometimes it can take what seems a minor thing to change people’s views completely. It was bias of the BBC and all media back in 1972 for me, the patronising attitude and ignorance about Scotland, when pointed out to me. I’d never even thought about it before. Could whisky be the tipping point?
link to thenational.scot
Made the mistake of watching a snippet of UK parliament today –
I thought I couldn’t dislike Theresa May any more than I already do (anyone out there still feeling sorry for her needs big wake up call)
Her response to Ian Blackford, shows what a desperate, shameless liar she is.
TM “flies in the face of economic reality” (re iScotland)
I’m so fucking angry, I’m going to call her a ‘cunt’ with a capital C.
Apologies to the anti-swearing lobby.
Mmm, or should that be tippling point?
@Robert Louis who said: “The only alternative would be for London to send in troops and declare foreign military rule over Scotland. An unlikely scenario”.
It’s really not an unlikely scenario. It’s a risk to be calculated and prepared for.
Troops were sent into ireland (Black and tans) when ireland declared independence 100 years ago.
They were sent into Northern ireland when catholics, nationalists and republicans resisted the Orange sectarian state of NI (1970-98)
Churchill sent them into Wales (Tony pandy 1911)
They did it in Glasgow (battle of George Sq 1919)
They massacred people at Peterloo, Manchester (1819)
See a pattern here?
What makes you think it’s not a repeating pattern?
So, here’s how the meeting with NS and Theresa will go next week.
TM: IF you support my brexit deal, I’ll let you come to some meetings, and pretend to let you have a say in things, while I trash devolution and forcibly drag Scotland out of the EU against its wishes.
NS aye, right.
Honestly, the whole premise of the meeting is an outright f***ing insult to both NS and Scotland. The smug grin on David Liddington’s face, in all these situations, gives the game away.
I wouldn’t normally suggest NS ignore such a meeting, but honestly, in this case, she should. Just one big long p*ss take by Theresa May and her racist brexiteer chums.
Nicola should call the referendum on the steps of number 10, instead.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
21 January, 2019 at 2:36 pm
“AS’s remarks are not helpful at the minute and I had a jubilant unionist laughing at me today that AS was undermining NS.”
Is there or is there not a civil war within the SNP?
@Ronnie Anderson –
Re meeting place – why not both? I’ll run it over Thepnr. If we’re meeting 4ish there’ll be plenty of time.
😉
Cod knows what Tereza has to offer Nicola EU have made their decision long since Tereza’s now looking for scapegoats.
Git her telt Nicola Indyref2 before the 29th March .
Meg at 732pm,
I actually don’t think it would be a gift to the tories, Judging by many comments in the HoC today (including from some extremely frustrated tories), I think many are now sick and tired with her time wasting. It is pretty obvious Theresa is running the clock down, so as to force acceptance of her dumb deal. All the talk of re-visiting things and ‘seeking consensus’ is just class A spin.
No, in this one instance, I think the FM will be quite right to reject the meeting, but in reply request a section 30. If a negative response, proceed to name the date for the indy ref the very next day, regardless.
Luigi says:
21 January, 2019 at 4:16 pm
“If a formal request for a section 30 order is refused, perhaps the spectacle of another SNP walkout from WM would help draw global attention to our treatment by the BritNat establishment.
Just sayin.”
The rest of the globe doesn’t give a damn about pathetic wee Scotland which voted No to independence.
Just sayin.”
RL @7.50pm
That is EXACTLY what Alex Salmond would have done and why I (and plenty like me) could never get behind him.
Nicola’s pragmatic approach is precisely what is needed here, and will pay dividends given time.
orri says:
21 January, 2019 at 4:34 pm
“If I were Alex Salmond and I stood against an official SNP candidate costing them a seat that might have been theirs then I’d consider very carefully whether independence or feeding my own ego was my primary goal.”
Alex Salmond is being made a scapegoat for Nicola’s spectacular squandering of a once in a 1000 years golden opportunity for Scotland to become independent.
Nicola has shown 100% support for the dishonest unionist civil servants.
But ZERO support for Mr and Mrs Salmond.
This is my personal opinion, and I might be partly or completely wrong.
Ronnie Anderson at 8pm,
Totally with you on that. Let’s get the referendum before 29th March. Then little England will be free to do on its own whatever it pleases outside the EU.
Hamish100 says:
21 January, 2019 at 6:00 pm
“May seems to have forgotten that there was already a previous referendum re the EU (eec)”
Wasn’t that about joining rather than leaving?
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 3:06 pm
The problem with assuming a need for over 50% of the vote in a GE is that it simply does not happen with any regularity.
————–
re reading my post, i may have not been clear enough.
ge’s are won and lost on the no of mps elected, getting 50%+1 mp is all that is required, this has always been the case.
but my point about % of votes as @pc made clear, in 2015 snp+greens = 52%.
I could also add that 2,25 m snp voters (62% on an 85%) is 50% of the entire electorate.
there are different levels of winning, each level more emphatic that the one before and more difficult to refuse. indeed, the only reason i mention the 50% of the vote is because currently, the only argument the unionists have against granting a s30 is because support for indy is presently less than 50% (or so they say) I have no doubt we will win a majority of mps in this ge, but i believe there is a possibility we could hit 52/55%.
in such a case, it could well be argued that there is no need for a s30.??
leaving the eu will be disasterous for scotland, i would think support for indy will be in the 70%+ after 2 weeks of tattie soup , the plebs will be revolting by then. but will we need to wait until we are physically dragged out of the eu before we see a swing towards yes/snp? maybe not. i think we will see clarity in the next 10 days, we wont know what brexit is but we will know what it isnt.
– the peoplesvote/revokea50/sm&cu will all die the death due to lack of support.
-treezas deal will also fail, but she may succeed in forcing it onto the tory ge manifesto so it wont be completely dead. good for scot tories, bad for english tories. if she fails to do this it will be no deal and the reverse will be true
– delay a50 till june will pass. good
-then we will know whether brexit will be corbyns havers are us deal, or treezas deal/no deal.
the polls could start turning in our favour at that point, risky, but worth considering
I wasn’t much good at Algebra at school and I’ve never used it since I left either ! I’m sure there’s an Algebra equation for May’s new plan B
Plan A +(NOTHING) = Plan B
OR
Plan B = Plan A +(more lies)
@Ben Madigan
Theresa May won’t deploy troops in Scotland the risks are too great
1 Alienate Scotland forever
2 Condemnation from the rest of the world
3 Probable UN and EU sanctions
4 The SDF will become active then you can forget about the odd drone it’ll be full halt to Englands infrastructure, nothing will move, the days of N Irelands pipe bombs and kneecapping are long gone, technology is the weapon of the small country now, if your planes and boats and trains don’t move neither does your money
They have been warned and they know it
Re Nicola meeting May
The perfect response from the First Minister, to the prime minister’s invitation, would be “now is not the time”. These talks are to window dress the charade of pretending there is any alternative to her plan.
A second EU referendum would remove any logic to the denying of indyref2 so they won’t go down that route.
For those reasons, it’s May’s Titanic hitting the ‘No Deal” iceberg. The skies are darkening towards the impending ‘perfect storm’ of opportunity for independence.
I agree that Mrs May is stalling for time, and is involving the SNP in talks only as a means of delaying any move towards a Section 30 claim. She fully intends to damage the governance of Scotland once she wins a Brexit deal or has no deal.
The game is afoot as Holmes stated, but I am pretty confident Nicola must identify a delaying tactic when she sees one.
People do not delay events for no reason.
Can you picture it?
International Court of Justice:
Scottish Govt: the people of Scotland have been denied self-determination.
Judge: you weren’t allowed to hold free democratic elections? People are denied the vote?
Scot Govt: Elections are allowed and there is universal suffrage and secret ballots but, we didnae want to risk MP or MSP seats to seek independence, so we decided on an optional extra choice in our manifesto: indyref whenever we want to.
Judge: so the people weren’t denied the opportunity to seek independence via free fair democratic elections?
Scot Govt: No, but we wanted to hold an indyref as well.
Judge: Well, we’d all like our cake and to eat it but, unfortunately the real world does not work like that.
Case dismissed.
The Scot Govt’s legal case would look even more incompetent than their defence in the Alex Salmond case.
No more than a week to go I reckon before all our ears prick up and a very loud and simultaneous shout of *!Yaaaas ya Beauty*! will be heard across the land, and the men will join in as well
Is there a BOGOF planned for Ann Summers Dr Jim?
😉
Schrodinger,
Your tenacity and depth of argument is admirable, but really, the notion that winning the largest number of MPs, may somehow not be legitimate, but with over 50% of the vote it would be is really akin to clutching at straws.
I sometimes find it bizarre the lengths people go to on here, to over complicate the concept of winning. The fact is, that Westminster is not going to give a section 30, so it really doesn’t matter. The SNP could win every single MP seat in Scotland and it would make no difference. They already have the overwhelming majority of Mp’s, and more than double the number of MSP’s than their nearest competitor in the Scots Parliament. Raising the bar any further is just self-defeating nonsense.
The Scottish government has a triple electoral mandate already to call a referendum, they do not need another one, or a ‘more convincing’ one. Westminster will never voluntarily give a section 30 again. In that context it is soon time for the SNP to ‘put up or shut up’ with regards to indyref. Either they stand up for what they believe in, or stand on the sidelines whining, while Scotland is forcible removed from the EU against its wishes.
They already have a clear democratic mandate. Time to start fighting. Westminster understands nothing else. Of course Westminster will make it difficult, of course they will say Scotland can’t, and so on, but that is what they will always do. They have been doing the same for over 300 years, so we should not be surprised, and it should definitely not put us off.
We simply cannot sit by and watch Scotland forcibly dragged out the EU wholly and completely against its wishes and against its best interests. It really will not do.
@defo
You think there aren’t such people?
Scotland’s – Claim of Right Act 1689 states: “That the sending of an army in a hostile manner upon any part of Scotland in peacetime is contrary to law”
link to caltonjock.com
The Black and Tans were raised in Ireland from men not enlisted. A vicious forerunner of the Home Guard. Troops sent in might have been, however slightly, less prone to violence.
I’m of the mind that Nicola has not been ‘waiting’ to see what May will do next at all. Nicola has been holding off to allow the demand amongst the people for another Indyref to reach such a fevour pitch that when she calls it the sheer wave of action by those who have been waiting for the signal will be tsunami like.
It matters not a jot what May or the Tories do now. The Yes movement is far better prepared this time. This time to combat the fear and lies spread by the BBC and the complicit press….the gloves come off.
Orri dont talk shit Scots were enlisted from Maryhill barracks for the Black & Tans
We’ll not see 1919 again
Theresa May might want to do such a stupid thing but the HOC parliament would stop her because the ramifications of that stupidity would for sure see an end to any possible future for any precious union and see her right out of office swept away by men in white coats
Cyber-corroboree at 847 pm
I think that may well be part of it. A good idea if it is. I do think we are now at that time, or within a week or so.
Colin Alexander at 8.27
No. I can’t picture it. Fanciful condescending
and convoluted nonsense predicated on an assumption that the stupid S N P has no grasp of legal issues despite being served by significant number of lawyers.
Dave McEwan Hill at 851pm,
Aye, totally agree. An interesting thing was the appearance of Joanna Cherry on University Challenge around christmas time, representing Edinburgh University. In the intro by paxman, he said words to the effect that she had been listed as one of the top Scottish QC’s. A very smart, and impressive lady. And she is on our side.
Those makin’ mane about SNP IndyRef2 ‘dithering’ should heed Ian Blackford’s words today.
He rightly called out Theresa May’s plans for the lunacy they are.
He then said this to the BBC: “In Scotland, we have another choice.
“We did not vote for Brexit and we will not be dragged out of Europe by a Tory government we did not vote for.
“We might not be able to save the UK, but we can save Scotland.
“We have an escape route from the chaos of Brexit – an independent Scotland.”
That statement is ice-cold in its clarity. No wriggle room, no get-out clause.
And it carries within it an implicit challenge – by whatever means, the SNP – and by extension the Yes movement – will ‘do or dee’ to keep Scotland in the EU.
Every day that passes lessens the chance of a General Election or EuroRef2 – not that they were high to begin with.
And as I have suggested before, I have scanty confidence in our English neighbours suddendly rushing back to Mother Europe saying, ‘we were wrong, please give us another chance.’
Au contraire. The anti-foreigner poison has seeped even further under the door to spread contagion further.
England right now is like something out of The Walking Dead: a zombie army of rabid Brexiteers gradually storming the citadels of reason and sanity.
Not so in Scotland. Public opinion in our country now stands at 70-30 pro-EU, according to the latest polls.
So what do we do? We wait. And prepare, and persuade and convert.
Then we fight. And then we win. God willing, with Europe’s fair wind in our sails.
Ian Blackford’s words cannot be unsaid. They are a pledge. And they will be fulfilled.
As for Joyce MacMillan’s recent spoutings, the Duke of Hamilton springs to mind. Or I am being a little harsh?
CC @8.47pm
What does that actually mean though!?
Seriously, what is behind the rather stereotypical but vague call to arms that so often gets trotted out on these pages?
Bring it on…
The gloves are off…
Ready for the fight…
Don’t want to piss on too many strawberries here but it seems to me everytime the SG has gone on the offensive in the last few years they’ve been slapped down with depressing ease by WM.
Caution and diligence (and very probably no small degree of compromise) will be necessary from here on in to achieve our final goal.
Fighting talk just makes us look a bit daft.
Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Ms McEntee said: “What we can’t do and what we won’t do, because we have not throughout this entire process, is engage in any kind of bilateral negotiations with the DUP or any other political party in Northern Ireland or the UK.
“This is a negotiation between the EU and the UK”.
I’ll just leave this here . Tereza dictates not talk .
@Ronnie Anderson,
Scots did indeed join the black and tans who were notorious for reprisals against civilians. Far worse were the Auxiliaries, who comprised of ex officers of the British Army. It was they who formed murder squads, and committed acts often attributed to the Black and Tans.
Their remit was to hunt down or assassinate Irish Republican members or sympathisers by fair means or foul.
Just read a comment on Moon of Alabama which sums up the difficulty we are all having in believing anything emanating from Westminster:
link to tinyurl.com
Brexit is all about England and the survival of the English nation and their capital city London.
ANYTHING ELSE IS SECONDARY.
Any damage done to Scotland Wales and N Ireland can be classed as collateral damage.
As long as the English Establishment lives on.
Bob Mack thanks Bob the british army even recruited in prisons for the B&Ts
@ Heart of Galloway. And the idea of there only being a few weeks left before either a GE or a second EU ref could be called is music to the Yes movement’s ear.
It’s May’s options that are quickly disappearing. Her only hope is to get to the 29th without a deal being agreed upon.
It is only the event of a ‘No deal’ that gives her the right to ignore the Irish backstop. Furthermore, it gives her quicker access to try and shut down the Scottish parliament.
She knows and sees that if she can delay until then the Tories might still have a chance of saving their huge reserves of ill gotten gain and perhaps the pretence of her precious union (which we all now know is colonial England all but in name).
Nicola should indeed tell May that “Now is not the time” for any further meetings. Instead, she should tell her to go back to her corner and be prepared to come out fighting.
Can you picture it?
The Court of King Bruce:
The Jester complete with his Hat, his antics fail to impress, and Bruce says:
“That really is rock all fun. But it reminds me, I need to make sure of keeping my EEZ intact for future generations to enjoy the oil wealth so we need someone to scale Rockall and stay there forever. Off you go, Fool”.
O/T
The Glasgow Kiss is now an ‘official’ WWE move thanks to Ayrshire wrestler
link to glasgowlive.co.uk
We’re famous, at last,lol.
@schrodingers cat.
Which part of Nicola saying indyref announcement “in next few weeks” sounds like June ?
Announcement soon (before march 29th) of indyref2 and dare WM to say no section 30.
If treeza prevaricates, Nicola schools treeza on what a Plan B looks like.
The Rev. on his twitter feed, refers to Wes Streeting MP as a balloon. Since Mr Streeting appears to be nothing more than “lobby fodder,” the Rev. may well be correct.
However, in suggesting Scotland disentangling herself from the Treaty of Union will be a damned sight harder than the UK leaving the EU, I think Mr Streeting is correct.
This is simply because, the UK Government, as they demonstrated in the EU negotiations, are not honest negotiators and they will surely try every dirty, dishonest and underhand trick in their considerable armament to hold Scotland fast.
They will not negotiate honestly with Scotland, and, that in itself will make Independence harder to achieve, but, I am confident, achieved, it will be.
Re Black and tans, had a discussion with some old scots bike racers who were rememising about racing in Northern Ireland in the fifties, somehow discussion moved on to the Easter Uprising, i got tore into the Black and Tans and one of the guys from Ayrshire said my dad was an officer in the Black and Tans, end of discussion 🙂 another time about 30 yearsago I was kilted up in Dublin for the rugby , few of us were in this snug in a pub and Bloke came up to me and whispered in my ear “ if you want to leave hear alive take off your hat” (a tam o shanter) i asked what the problem, he said thats what the Black and Tans wore. Never wore that bunnet again 🙂
@Meg merrilees
That sub was tracking a Russian sub at a distance of 200 nautical miles, delighted with itself. Ping … ping … ping
…
PING PING PING PING
“That must be a bloody big sub and it’s surfaced, let’s just pop up and have a look. Up periscope. OH SHIT“
Hi Socrates MacSporran.
Your 9:45pm post.
Your last sentence. You have a fine command of the language, iye?
Hat’s off…
8=)
Can/could the scottish gov call a snap election in Scotland with an Snp majority a mandate to dissolve the union?. Would this be allowed/acceptable??.
Hey, Bobp, yer dribbling !
Why the feck would we need a Holyrood election (designed to AVOID a majority) when we ALREADY HAVE A MANDATE ?
No,i’m not dribbling. I just asked a question.
@Essexexile.
It would be interesting to get your take on where the SG has been slapped down with depressing ease. No Daily mail headlines, please
Some fantastic comments and links on here tonight. Great stuff.
Anyway, I’ve missed the news, etc, but from what I can make out on here Plan B is actually Plan A and Big T is now trying to get the fascist Brexiteers and DUP bigots onside to push through her AB or BA plan by sorting out the backstop fiasco to their satisfaction? Is that right? If so how is she going to do that? I thought the EU had told her, repeatedly, no mitigation of the backstop agreement? She’s also ruling out an EuRef2 because she’s feart it’ll encourage Nicola to announce IndyRef2 which could break up the “precious” Union; instead of Brexit doing so? She also wants to meet up with Nicola AFTER her deal gets passed? Would that be a no CU/SM deal? If her deal does get passed, Nicola should meet up with her at No 10, lean forward, grind her 6 inch stiletto heel right into her foot and whisper, “Now IS the time. Section 30 order or advisory Ref / UN.” Then she should walk outside and make her announcement, that is that following two and a half years (300 odd) of the Scots being blindfolded, bound and gagged their voices will now be heard. And more of course, facts, whilst she has their undivided attention. And on that note our 35 MP’s should march out of Westminster, join Nicola and head home to Scotland to join the Indyref2 campaign. Job done and dusted, lol.
Yesindy2ref @2148 when i was a lad in the RAF got posted to the radar station at RAF Troodos in Cyprus , was getting shown what went on there and wasmonitoring a fighter controller (officer) vectoring a phantom onto a Victor which was playing at being a rusky bomber, he kept ontelling it to turnto port, getting more shrill everytime he said turnto port, im watching the radar screen and this dot which was the phantom was going round in circles, eventually a lowly senior aircraftsman said Sir, thats a 707 going into Cairo your looking at:) I nearly wet myself. Yes ladies and gentlemen thats the best Military in the World in action.
Boph- diversion
Robert Louis says:
Schrodinger,
Your tenacity and depth of argument is admirable, but really, the notion that winning the largest number of MPs, may somehow not be legitimate, but with over 50% of the vote it would be is really akin to clutching at straws.
———–
that isnt what i said, in 2015/2017 ge, we won the majority of mps, this wasnt enough to bring about indy because……… we didnt campaign for indy in either of these ge’s. it wasnt in the snp manifesto
what I am proposing is that we should consider doing so in this ge. if there is no s30 for an indyref2, we could revert to the previous method of winning indy, ie a simple majority of mps, the point i made about % of the vote isnt conditional, it never has been. I merely pointed out that getting +50% is possible, and if it happens it would make it even more difficult for wm to refuse us
————-
I sometimes find it bizarre the lengths people go to on here, to over complicate the concept of winning. The fact is, that Westminster is not going to give a section 30, so it really doesn’t matter. The SNP could win every single MP seat in Scotland and it would make no difference. They already have the overwhelming majority of Mp’s, and more than double the number of MSP’s than their nearest competitor in the Scots Parliament. Raising the bar any further is just self-defeating nonsense.
————————
I cant see why you think I am raising the bar, the snp will win a majority of mps in this ge, no question, I am merely saying that we should consider campaigning directly on indy in this ge. this is enough to win indy. I am no lawyer, but I think we would have the law on our side and could win any subsequent case
———————————————
The Scottish government has a triple electoral mandate already to call a referendum, they do not need another one, or a ‘more convincing’ one.
———–
this is a risk, if we campaign on indy in this ge, the unionist could claim it superceded previous triple lock mandates.
but i have no doubt we will win a majority of mps???
——-
Westminster will never voluntarily give a section 30 again.
————-
then we have the options of an indyref2 without a s30, a ge or a he. I know no other scotland wide voting methods
————
In that context it is soon time for the SNP to ‘put up or shut up’ with regards to indyref. Either they stand up for what they believe in, or stand on the sidelines whining, while Scotland is forcible removed from the EU against its wishes.
They already have a clear democratic mandate. Time to start fighting. Westminster understands nothing else. Of course Westminster will make it difficult, of course they will say Scotland can’t, and so on, but that is what they will always do. They have been doing the same for over 300 years, so we should not be surprised, and it should definitely not put us off.
We simply cannot sit by and watch Scotland forcibly dragged out the EU wholly and completely against its wishes and against its best interests. It really will not do.
—————-
nice speech, high on rhetoric, low on any actual suggestions of how.
indy will come via a ge/he or indyref with or without a s30/ udi or open conflict.their are no other options.
when you say start fighting. are you suggesting actual warfare? if not, what?
O/T . One seriously pissed of machine man link to facebook.com
Hi from Tassie:
If it was the intention of the “establishment” in Westminster to suppress the growth of the wish in Scotland for a break in the union with England, they have failed miserably and must now realise it. Whether Brexit has been the trigger or not, the majority in Scotland must have woken up to the fact that the union with England will never work for Scotland and that Scotland can do so much better whether in the EU or out.
I must smile at the karma of it all – what you sow you reap! It is a different world now and the bully boys will not triumph for much longer hopefully.
Come on Scotland march forward to a new future with pride!
Very best wishes and thanks to all the regular wingers for Independence and particularly to Robert Peffers, Nana, Liz, Petra and all the others who share their wise thoughts on line and thereby doing so much for Scottish Independence. The Dream will never die!
Black and Tans.
It’s worth remembering that some estimates put the number of deaths in the Irish Civil War after independence (hard core Rep dissidents versus Treaty / Free Staters) was double the number killed when fighting the British authorities from 1916-21. The Civil War was a dirty affair too with summary executions.
There is a tendency to play down the post independence violence because it’s a more palatable political agenda to focus on the ‘fight for freedom’.
The world is not a simple place. Violence will beget violence. And history is written by the winners.
There is much about Irish history Scotland must not re-run!
CC
@9.31
Aye, I think Wednesday’s tete-a-tete between NS and TM may be the last this side of IndyRef2. Maybe forever.
In all likelihood, the outcome will amount to a hill of beans unless one or t’ither throws a curve ball that none of us saw coming *apologies for the Americanisms*.
Nicola will come out saying ‘well, that was a waste of time because Scotland was offered hee-haw’ while May will blame the intransigent Nats. Guess whose side the meeja will take?
No, the SNP has been unequivocal in its preparedness to invoke Scottish popular sovereignty when the chips are down.
And I believe this stance goes far deeper than mere words.
Why? Because the Scottish National Party not knowing EXACTLY what steps to take when MAY refuses Section 30 consent is as inconceivable as May ‘granting’ it.
@Lenny Hartley
Ouch!
Schrodingers cat. Thats the point i was trying to get an answer to, before the usual f**kwits jumped on me.
Petra great idea for Nicola to announce the new Referendum to regain our independence in front of Number 10. I think our MP’s walking out at the same time would be brilliant, the Britnats would choke on their tea. Hears hoping:)
Personally I can’t see a UKGE until after E-Day, since it only risks May further, but one possible off-the-wall preemptive Plan B for the SG might be to have all SNP MPs resign and stand for re-election on an independence ticket.
The obvious drawback would be that the MPs of other parties would be very unlikely to follow suit, even if Labour and the LibDems were also thwarted in their own immediate ambitions. They are pretty shameless. (Might make Labour look even more hypocritical, mind!)
But although that reduced set of elections alone would be very unlikely to accumulate enough votes to add up to more than 50% of the Scottish electorate (since normally that’s a very big ask even over the whole), pro-rata it might be sufficient to demonstrate popular support for IR2.
Tenuous, but still…
(Though it might alone be sufficient to win a delay to Art.50 from the EU27.)
Just a thought…
Any FM with a mandate for an indyref can:
a) Call it and win
b) Call it and lose
c) Not call it at all
The current FM is a canny woman. I have no doubt she knows history will judge her whatever happens & c is even worse than b.
RJS. Thank you, that answers my question at 9.50pm
Illegal Partition of Ireland 1922
Universal Suffrage 1928
‘It was unclear what changes to the backstop May hopes to secure, but the Tory backbencher Andrew Murrison is understood to be in advanced discussions about tabling an amendment time-limiting the backstop, after hearing May tell the Commons that “the length of the backstop was being actively considered”.
Should he decide to table an amendment, it may call for a five-year limit as suggested by the Polish foreign minister earlier on Monday…’
From front page ’roundup’ main article on Guardian online. (naw ahm no archiving it or even putting it up…shower of shite that paper, can’t even write there fucking news as it is…properly)
This is what they are banking on imv. There’s always got to be something they think they can get a away with and this would seem to logically be it. If they can get a time limit from EU27 and set the cat amongst the pigeons, along the lines of: ‘if the Polish foreign minister’ suggests it’, it creates a crack in the ‘united EU27 front’ narrative, that is where Tories excel themselves at being the cunning little stunts that they are.
They need to buy Scotland off, if they can get their Withdrawal vote through wi this sneaky move, they need to ‘test the waters’, imv it’s why they want a wee chat wi Nic.
Yes I’m aware they are going on about listening to others Brexit, but as has been pointed out further up thread, this is in relation to ‘after’ the Withdrawal bill goes through.
Mark my words, Tories are the most low based life form on earth and there is nothing they will not stoop to, to get their way.
Jeez Ronnie…he just waanted his wages…poor fucker.
And if anybody was to be the last uk PM, Teresa May is just about as best qualified a candidate as there could ever be.
schrodingers cat @ 22:13:
Now what GE would that be? You criticise others for a lack of plan, but yours is built on wishful thinking and pure thin air, since you expect St. Theresa to somehow graciously provide you with an opportunity that offers her and her party no advantage whatever.
Au contraire, since she is in fact personally committed to standing down for the next general election. So how much time does there remain to elect a new Tory leader? It could even be the step that triggers the avalanche of the presently-imminent Tory split.
Afterwards, very likely, in the hope of cleaning up after passing the milestone of Brexit, but there is no realistic prospect whatever of a UKGE before E-Day. So we had damn well have a better plan of action than your endlessly-repeated airily-assumed early-GE pie-in-the-sky.
I didn’t realise the Martin Luther King was one of the original proponents of a citizens income…nay wunner they assassinated them. Just makes you realise that what we are up against has aye been the way of the ‘establishment’, aka the rich and powerful have always made sure their status sticks.
‘I am now convinced that the simplest approach will prove to be the most effective — the solution to poverty is to abolish it directly by a now widely discussed measure: the guaranteed income…. We are likely to find that the problems of housing and education, instead of preceding the elimination of poverty, will themselves be affected if poverty is first abolished.’ MLK
From a handful of excerpts from his writings, published today in the Washington Post:
link to washingtonpost.com
Sorry for the o/t, or if it’s been mentioned before.
In regards to the bbc’s anti snp attack on two people catching a pigeon related disease at Glasgow’s queen Elizabeth hospital.
Something just didn’t sit right with me on the couple, Graham & Sophie Fyfe, being interviewed on mis reporting Scotland.
A quick search on Facebook for Sophie fyfe soon made me realise what was up.
Profile picture of the couple with a backdrop of a union jack with the words ‘100% British’ written across the backdrop. The whole page is festooned with union jackery.
Although the facts of the case were true, two people did contract this pigeon related disease, it was her comment that she had written to the SG and the SG saying that they’d hadn’t received a letter from her that got my suspicions tingling.
The media up to their old tricks.
K1 aye another company going tits up & leaving the workforce destitute , pity the guys going to be picking up Porridge coupons along with bed n board .
@ Dave McEwan Hill
Rather than arguing the toss with you, I would say this: There are principles that self determination should be just that, with no outside interference.
In 2014, was that the case? Were the BBC, Ed Milliband, Cameron and Clegg and Mirror Group Newspapers and the other media outlets Scottish?
The UK Govt who sent pro-UK brochures to every house address in Scotland, was it Scottish?
Are the Labour Party, Conservative and Unionist Party and Liberal Democrat Party, Scottish political parties?
Just how free from external interference was that referendum and how free from external interference would indyref2 be?
Hmmm.
Mary miles @ 10.15
Hi Mary
Thanks for the kind word’s and for caring enough to check back in to Wing’s. It really dose the heart good to know that people out with Scotland care..
You once asked if you could do anything to help!
Well as it happens there’s an EU petition that you could sign and you could also encourage anyone that you can think of to sign too… It’s open to people Worldwide and you don’t have to be in Europe or the EU to sign it.
I’m sorry I don’t know how to link to it,but I’m pretty sure if you check back in the next couple of hours some kind Winger will put up the link….
Anyhoo…. Take care of you and Happy New Year to you and yours X
Ronnie, K1 or others
Can you stick up a link to the EU Petition for Mary miles @ 10.15 please?
And wish granted:
This petition is a wee bit more involved than bog standard ones, as you have to register with the portal. Very straight forward form. You will create a user name and password for the site on that same form. Once submitted, you will receive (2-7 mins) an email with a link that takes you back to the home page of the portal.
Simply choose ‘support petition’ above welcome message on home page and enter this reference number: 0701/2018
This will take you to Martin’s petition, you may then be asked to ‘sign in’, do so with user name and password that you set up in registration form, then when you’re signed in click bottom right to support petition. (Don’t worry if it takes you back to the home page after signing in again, just click ‘support petition’ and re enter above ref number.)
‘That the European Parliament votes to support Scotland’s independent membership of the EU’
link to petiport.secure.europarl.europa.eu
Aye and it might serve the politicians well to remember that for that one guy running amok on his wee digger in Liverpool there are hunderds of thousands of the same mind at present. The UK is fast becoming a political tinder box.
It’s common knowledge that any good employer will conduct an exit interview with an employee who has chosen to leave in an attempt to uncover any grievances that employee might have had. The HR department use this information to resolve any issues that might have been identified to avoid other employees suffering the same fate.
It’s painfully obvious Westminster paid no heed to the many countries that chose to leave their ‘Empire’. No exit interview or review was conducted with those countries to determine why they left. As a result they kept leaving and the Empire crumbled. Even if they had listened to the people of Scotland five years ago they would not be in this mess.
The Liverpool digger man is an apt metaphor for the present state of the UK.
I know that seemed affy quick, it’s cause I had already sent it to others through email and felt the need to explain the process. (so it wis just copy and paste job right now) 😉
Thanks K1…. Yer a star..
What a laugh. Farce. STV was reporting from NIreland and stating that the DUP is not the only party in NIreland and doesn’t represent everyone. No mention that they are not representing the remain majority at all. Imagine that! One young schoolboy was on the ball. How many more in Ireland feel like him? He said “England and Wales voted to leave. Scotland and NIreland voted to remain but our voices aren’t being heard.” Come to think of it other than Bertie’s fishermen no one in Scotland seems to get interviewed at all on Brexit. In fact Scotland doesn’t even seem to exist anymore, even for STV. Brigadoon? Not for much longer.
…………………
I came across a reader’s letter in the Sunday National and one section of his letter really made an impression on me, especially as I had been trying to figure out why I had felt quite disconcerted after watching two individuals “speaking” in the Commons recently.
He, a Mr Mitchell, said, “Two particular members of the front bench on the Government side stood out. Geoffrey Cox, Attorney General, and the inevitable Michael Gove. There they stood at the Dispatch Box ranting, raving and gesticulating, in a manner which was quite insulting to the serious situation facing all the people of these islands. Their performance reminded me all too vividly of the oft-repeated performances of the participants of the Nuremburg Rallies of the mid-1930’s. Histrionics about anything and everything with no relevance whatsoever to the plight in which we presently find ourselves.”
Nazi mindset, Nazi nature and now giving themselves away with their Nazi-type facial expressions and body language.
liz g aye she’s quick on the trigger ah wiz hivin ah coffee break lol
Agreed on the 2 dense Unionist stooges that the BBC were just lucky enough to stumble across.
They didn’t look like they could write and never capable of raising a possibility of air borne infections from pigeons.
Last time the BBC were lucky enough to bump into another Unionist with a track record who claimed malpractice against the hospital for some form of leg injury treatment.
The incident had occurred some time ago in the past but luckily he was in the Hospital Café when the Beep Propaganda team arrived?
So what do the Beeb Agents do when they arrive, walk around with a mega phone requesting participants with any SNP Bad stories-truth not required?
Do patients unhappy with their treatment at the hospital have days out to come and use their café?
The Beep obviously have a network of these for hire Unionists to fill these Fake News Specials and Kaye Phone in’s and Question Time plants.
Unionist propaganda is incessant and relentless, devoid of morals and oblivious to reality.
Colin Alexander @11.02pm
Another good post. Absolutely no SNP baaad in this post. Perhaps you are turning over a new leaf.
geeo says:
21 January, 2019 at 9:43 pm
@schrodingers cat.
Which part of Nicola saying indyref announcement “in next few weeks” sounds like June ?
———————–
events dear boy, events
we are not in charge of our own destiny, more’s the pity. thats what we really lost in 2014. play the game
Essexexile@9.02pm
Dr Doom strikes again.
Essexexile @7.00pm
Dr Doom goes for it again.
@ Old Pete at 10:33pm …….. “Nicola announcement outside Number 10.”
If she, Nicola, felt that it was the end of the road (but will it be?) Old Pete that’s exactly what she should do. Stand and read out a long list of grievances from the way we have been treated, to them robbing us blind to subsidise them, to how rich we are as a country, McCrone Report, to the Brexit impact for us and additionally being disadvantaged if there is a special deal for NIreland. Cram it ALL in, because she might not get another chance to do so. And then a wee text (FREEDOM) to Iain Blackford at the end of her speech as a rallying call for them all to march out. Leave them, the ignorant parasites with their gobs hanging open, to it in the antiquated House of Ill-repute to shout, bray and slaver amongst themselves for as long as that place exists. It’s absolutely rotten to the core and why the around 30 million adults in England put up with this is beyond me. The Mother of all Parliaments, FGS. British or rather English democracy and they don’t even have a written Constitution: Just make it up as they go along. And no written Constitution of course because they can’t incorporate our laws with theirs. That alone speaks volumes and how it must have stuck in their craw that they haven’t been able to do one whit about it over the last 300 years other than trying to repress, suppress and brainwash us all into believing that we were their inferiors. The very fact that Scots living in the 14th century (with examples later) had the wits to do something then that protects us to this very day is also amazing, imo.
And just to add that they, the English Tories and probably Labour too, don’t “get” us, as is exemplified in T May wanting to talk to Nicola AFTER her deal gets through, as she thinks, just beggars belief. Nicola Sturgeon will be raging and in fact her astrology right now highlights the planet Uranus squaring Mars and you can’t get any angrier, more livid, than that. Look out Treeza.
Oh well my post has gone into moderation, so I’ll try changing one word.
……………….
@ Old Pete at 10:33pm …….. “Nicola announcement outside Number 10.”
If she, Nicola, felt that it was the end of the road (but will it be?) Old Pete that’s exactly what she should do. Stand and read out a long list of grievances from the way we have been treated, to them robbing us blind to subsidise them, to how rich we are as a country, McCrone Report, to the Brexit impact for us and additionally being disadvantaged if there is a special deal for NIreland. Cram it ALL in, because she might not get another chance to do so. And then a wee text (FREEDOM) to Iain Blackford at the end of her speech as a rallying call for them all to march out. Leave them, the ignorant parasites with their gobs hanging open, to it in the antiquated House of Ill-repute to shout, bray and slaver amongst themselves for as long as that place exists. It’s absolutely rotten to the core and why the around 30 million adults in England put up with this is beyond me. The Mother of all Parliaments, FGS. British or rather English democracy and they don’t even have a written Constitution: Just make it up as they go along. And no written Constitution of course because they can’t incorporate our laws with theirs. That alone speaks volumes and how it must have stuck in their craw that they haven’t been able to do one whit about it over the last 300 years other than trying to repress, suppress and brainwash us all into believing that we were their inferiors. The very fact that Scots living in the 14th century (with examples later) had the wits to do something then that protects us to this very day is also amazing, imo.
And just to add that they, the English Tories and probably Labour too, don’t “get” us, as is exemplified in T May wanting to talk to Nicola AFTER her deal gets through, as she thinks, just beggars belief. Nicola Sturgeon will be raging and in fact her astrology right now highlights the planet Ur*nus squaring Mars and you can’t get any angrier, more livid, than that. Look out Treeza.
Jezza@11.51am
I never said you were a troll. Never thought you were.
You are however a cheeky bugger who was incapable of answering my question properly.
WGD:- …. “Living in a 1970’s Concept Album.”
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Cubby
So glad I’m off your troll list.
Why do you think I am cheeky and what was your question???
The more I read online comments on various articles from the msm, whether here or say the states, washington post or nytimes wrt brexit, the more I see this ‘pattern’ emerging in recent months.
The comments start quite intelligently as people discuss the atl but within sometimes just 10 mins there will be someone that just comes btl and ‘sounds’ exactly like the same person whether from a guard article or the u.s. ones, same rhetoric, same condescension, same ad hominens, same ‘tone’ in all their comments and jumping in on ‘any’ commenter to get their oar in.
It’s over the top reactionary, totally doesn’t ‘feel’ like a ‘real’ person or anyone who would really think in the terms that they comment? A ‘rubbishing’ of ‘others’ is the central ‘trait’ of those commenters.
It’s weird, seen it on here too recently.
Is it literally the same organised bunch of people doing this? Because it is so obvious to anyone with even a ounce of savvy that this is co ordinated.
77th you’re a bunch of fucking arses who can’t do ‘covert’.
The ones we really have to watch are the long term sleepers, they are in wi the bricks…hope there’s naebdy here suddenly huvin weans wi wingers you lot 😉
Bobp says:
21 January, 2019 at 10:01 pm
No,i’m not dribbling. I just asked a question.
……..
Which i answered.
…..
Why the feck would we need a Holyrood election (designed to AVOID a majority) when we ALREADY HAVE A MANDATE ?
……..
Even threw in a free question back at ye, within the answer.
You gonna answer that ?
……
And btw…this:
Bobp says:
21 January, 2019 at 10:20 pm
Thats the point i was trying to get an answer to, before the usual f**kwits jumped on me.
……..
Person abuse like this is not too clever around here these days.
Ask mac..oh wait..!
Or maybe mike…oh wait..!
mike’s last words were pure self fulfilling prophecy writ on a big ‘ol irony checkpad, thought K1 was going to have a fit !!(bottom end of last thread if anyone wants a genuine laugh out loud moment.
Och it was just too funny geeo….his bubble burst within moments. Comic timing Rev’s response. Needed a good laugh 🙂
I think it may already have been suggested but i would love it if Nicola walked out of No. 10 tomorrow night, right up to those TV cameras and said:
” Now is the time for Scottish Votes for Scottish Laws” .
SVSL is not as easy to say as EVEL but you get my drift!
It would be a corker of a headline if she announces Indy Ref 2 tmrw.
However, I still think the time’s not right because, T May could do a ‘u’-turn and revoke Article 50 or agree to remove No Deal.
No, I think we have to go a bit further along the track yet before we can bail out.
Nicola Sturgeon exits No10 and walks over to the waiting gathered press desperate for a soundbite and says “I’ve just had yet another non constructive meeting with the Prime Minister and can confirm in all honesty that the Wummin’s a total baw heid and Baam of the highest calibre and she couldnae run a minoge, any questions?”
The entire 27 countries of the EU, the Irish, the Welsh, the Scots, all speaking the English language for the benefit of the English politicians and they still don’t understand their own language
alexicon
Checked Facebook.
Jeez! Is this who they interviewed?
Scroll through and she’s a Tommy Robinson fan!
Sturgeon walks outside and says to the press “We quit”
“Are you resgining First Minister?”
“No, I said WE quit. Scotland is out the UK, bye now and thanks for all the pish”.
Dr Jim @2:47
What a very insightful, astute and most wonderfully described observation.
That’s gotta burn.
In fact @Dr Jim that should be made into a meme by Indy Poster Boy, or even a few well placed billboards.
It’s a very powerful and persuasive argument.
@ Dr Jim “The entire 27 countries of the EU, the Irish, the Welsh, the Scots, all speaking the English language for the benefit of the English politicians” – and all we got was Brexit means Brexit. This can be followed by both exclamation and question mark.
‘Belfast Bertie’, Theresa May’s new bestie, interviewed outside No.10. Saving their ‘precious union’.
The media just love the ‘Scottish Fishermen’s Association’, never a mention of West Coast/Clyde Scottish Fishermen and how they feel about Brexit.
@ Shinty ….Bertie.’
Thousands of different types of companies / industries in Scotland Shinty going to be impacted on by Brexit, but you never see them interview anyone other than Bertie and his boys. Reason being it’s the ONLY industry that the Scottish Tories can be “shown” to be supporting and of course they’re not even doing that, as we know. High time that the BBC / STV informed the Scots of the 5 family fisherman cabal (millionaires) that’s ruling the roost in Scotland.
……………………………
@ Dr Jim at 2:38am …….
Ha ha ha. If only!
……………………….
‘When things go pear shaped the aide resigns not the Minister so what’s different about Leslie.Evans?’
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
Just to add to my earlier at 254am.
If this Sophie interviewed is the same as the Sophie on Facebook then is there not a case for a headline re “BBC uses Rightwing Extremists”?
link to m.facebook.com
meg merilees @ 2.23am
Good point about SVSL – Scottish Votes For Scottish Laws.
My understanding of how the HoC works as regards EVEL is that the Scottish MPs don’t have a say on bills covered by EVEL during the “committee stages”; Scottish MPs still get to vote when it comes to the bill formally passing; but, of course, the in-built English majority always ensures, the bill will pass.
Well, we could use that against them, by demanding that the Scottish Grand Committee (SGC) of all 59 Scottish members gets to debate Brexit and its effect on Scotland.
With the in-built SNP majority, the SGC votes NOT to allow Scotland to depart the EU, since Scotland voted No.
At the next stage, however, all the English Leavers rom the three main English parties pile-in and overturn that decision of the SGC, giving all those Proud Scots But and other Unionists up here a very convincing demonstration of exactly why we are an English colony being held in an unfair Union, against our will.
After that, Independence would be a dawdle.
We have to use HoC rules and conventions against them, much more than we currently do. It is such a pity, Alex Salmond, Angus Robertson and yes, Jim Sillars – arguably Scotland’s three best authorities on how to use HoC rules, are not in the Commons, or, out of favour with the SNP hierarchy, at this crucial time.
Alexicon, I had the same thought as you when I saw this pair but not the nous to check them out.
Nothing surprises me about the BBBC or STV . I look forward to the day when all of them are seeking employment elsewhere.
Ronnie, there are days when I feel like that chap!
Jim Sillars seems determined to cry down the SNP and Independence any chance he gets. I have always thought Jim was on the Independence, but recently he seems to have moved against the idea and how the Britnat papers and TV love to highlight this. Jim is a very smart guy, shame he might be remembered as a bitter old man who turned against Independence for Scotland.
May will try to bribe Nicola. Nicola will not have it. May will go into oblivion with her stinking Party. Evel and nasty.
Cameron, Gove, Farague etc are alcoholics. Alcoholics make poor decisions without proper, total abstinence, counselling.
3Million+ migrant permanent status anti Tory voters. The Tories will never get into power again. Apart from the affect of the Brexit shambles causing a recession and making people poorer.
300,000 migrant votes SNP/Independence wins.
Scotland can vote the unionists out within 2+ years. There will be no opposition. SNP/Independence wins.
The complete and utter shambles. The unionists have created. They could not make a bigger mess. Extraordinary ignorance, arrogance and incompetence, .
Johnston, Hunt, Corbyn, Farague, Neil, Fraser, Tomkins, Bruce, etc their families will have to register. Migrants. Get ill, or a conviction, lose their jobs. The spouse not earning £30,000 and out they go. Johnston is a criminal, lazy, liar. Farague will probably be out of a (EU) job just shortly 23rd May? Has he paid back all the EU money that he embezzled. He could end up in jail.
Scotland exports more to the EU and overseas than to the rest of the UK. Plus EU grants, ECB investments, shared Defence costs CAP etc, EU membership gains Scotland £Billions.it costs nothing and brings benefits, Good social Laws and people’s rights. UK takes Scotland’s profits and wastes it. Gross mismanagement Oil & Gas, Fishing, farming totally mismanaged by Westminster for years. UK health & safety Laws not enforced by Westminster causing death and covered up.
UK Union costs Scotland £Billions. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Costs Scotland £Billions.
Scotland is far better out of the UK Union and in the EU, Economically, socially and politically. Leave the unionists to their mess of theur own making.
Will May be discussing the powers being taken back before she goes into oblivion. Questionable?
Scotland will lose £9Billion++ from Brexit, Gain £200Million from fishing short term. The fishermen will continue to overfish. Discard and throw small dead fish back. There will be no fish left. They have to use different fishing methods. Like Norway. They use bigger nets. Better terms and conditions. Youngsters will not go into fishing (hard) when there are other jobs available. The Scottish fishing industry in the NE relies in migrant labour and the EU markets. Brexit will devastate it.
“Giving Goose says:
22 January, 2019 at 7:07 am
Just to add to my earlier at 254am.
If this Sophie interviewed is the same as the Sophie on Facebook then is there not a case for a headline re “BBC uses Rightwing Extremists”?”
This is the exact same Sophie goose.
@Dorothy Devine.
It was when she mentioned Shona Robinson by name that aroused my suspicions.
B & T’s,
My mistake, sorry.
However Wiki says that they came in 2 varieties.
The grunt ex-soldier “good guys” just doing a job. Not the kind that went looking for trouble or to cause it.
The cunt ex-officer “Auxies” who were on a mission.
Given that and the miners strike the probability is high that amongst the genuine Police from the mainland sent to NI there will be Army in fake uniforms sent to cause trouble.
A propaganda coup would be for some young catholic mother just back from maternity leave and probably from Scotland to be the first casuality amongst those brave men and women only doing their job. Would tick all the boxes in trying to play down the drive for independence here.
Meanwhile the laughable suggestion that they’d be seconded only for marching season might actually be serious. Which would then leave a gap in our police force to be filled by more Army in false colours.
If you don’t think kicking off the troubles again is beyond the pale for this Westminster government then you’ve not been paying attention.
Almost forgot,
it’d also give an opportunity to torch and destroy a warehouse supposedly containing either food or medicines that could then be claimed for on insurance. Nasty people your rebel terrorist.
On BBC Parliament channel.
How does someone like Lord Purvis of Tweed get a peerage to become a Baron at the age of 39? What a scandal! £300 per day! Being a true Yellow Tory democrat he is a member of the Commission on Parliamentary Reform.
Thank goodness for that!
Is there a prize on Wings for whoever posts the last comment of the day.
Because there seems to be a bit of rivalry developing between the guys Dr Jim and yesindyref2.
They seem to be fighting for the “And Finally” post of the day.
What tactics do they use?
Is it a case of staying awake longer than his rival?
Or do they set the alarm for 4am?
Interesting times.
I wonder who will win the “And Finally” post later on tonight?
Ian Blackford MP said
We refuse to be dragged out of Europe by a farcical Tory government we did not vote for.
link to twitter.com
Confirmed speakers include: Dr Marsha Scott ( Chief Executive at Scottish Women’s Aid), Cllr. Cecil Meiklejohn, Joanna Cherry QC MP, Jess Smith, Irene Hamilton, Julia Stachurska and our First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon MSP
link to eventbrite.co.uk
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to barrheadboy.com
link to rbs.postach.io
link to peterabell.blog
Electioneering?
Friend in Edinburgh New Town just got these two delivered together
link to twitter.com
link to weegingerdug.wordpress.com
Jezza @1.01am
I do not and never had a troll list. So try and stop your silly accusations.
Still incapable of a sensible reply to my question. So far all you have churned out is your personally abusive comment re paranoi.
link to newsnet.scot
link to itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com
Save this
link to dailybusinessgroup.co.uk
link to randompublicjournal.com
link to welfareweekly.com
#JohnPilger:”#BBC Is & Has Long Been The Most Refined Propaganda Services In The World. The BBC is an extension of the established order in this country… it just is,and for it to claim that it isn’t & others are really subverting the State by giving another view is just absurd”
video
link to twitter.com
Will not archive
link to independent.co.uk
link to politicshome.com
From backstop tweaks to no no-deal: possible amendments to May’s next Brexit motion
link to archive.is
link to bloomberg.com
link to infacts.org
1/ Normally I do threads on official documents like legislation, or think tank papers, but today I have been asked to debunk viral online claims about the scary “Lisbon treaty 2022”.
link to threadreaderapp.com
Prince Philip crash victim ‘urged more than ten times to keep quiet by police’
link to archive.is
link to publiclawforeveryone.com
“Reasonable worst case” scenario points to severe food shortages
link to twitter.com
Cross-Channel freight trade ‘could drop by 87%’ under ‘no-deal’ Brexit
link to archive.is
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
link to twitter.com
link to gov.uk
Will not archive
link to stv.tv
link to ukandeu.ac.uk
There is going to be another GE the Tories can lose. It is the only way for them to get out of the mess. Scotland can vote the unionists out.
Geeo 1.11am ” person abuse is not to clever around here these days” Oh i see, you can dish it out but you dont like it back. Typical of all bullies.
link to thenational.scot
A Thread on Hidden Facts About Our Oil (Names withheld)
link to twitter.com
CCHQ put on election footing and told it needs to have the ‘resources in place’ in event PM is defeated
link to twitter.com
Well here it is. Confirmation that our pension contributions are being used illegally to pay of Englands national debt.
link to twitter.com
Oh, come on – I’ve been back for *days*. Put something else up will ye, Rev?
@Nana –
I opened your 9.16 about Phil and would urge anyone who wants to see what actual evil looks like to check out that photie of him.
The eyes!?! FFS!
🙁 🙁 🙁
So many Brexit possibilities!
1) May is totally deluded, has lost the plot and thinks her plan will get past WM.
2) May doesn’t want to be seen as U-turning so wants others to take the responsibility and blame for a change of direction towards soft / cancellation / EURef2.
3) May secretly wants it to come down to a choice of her deal versus Brexit delay (with probably EURef2). At this point the swivel eyed right wing hard nuts will back her deal because it is the only Brexit they are going to get. It’s a blindfold Brexit so they may hold out hope of hardening up the trade arrangements later.
4) May desperately wants to be the one to deliver Brexit and doesn’t care if it ends up as a crash and burn no-deal.
Take your pick! And there,s almost certainly other scenarios.
Hard choice on timing for Nicola, but she has to bite the bullet soon and move forward IMO.
Morning Ian.
It’s a shocker right enough, like something out of ‘The hills have eyes’
Perhaps some of my links should come with a health warning 🙂
Stewart McDonald MP says
Don’t be tempted to dismiss this.
Link to the ferret story here
link to twitter.com
‘Planning is a nightmare’: Irish milk firm fears ‘lights out’ after Brexit
link to archive.is
Trump’s former right-hand woman told us what it’s really like to work for him
link to twitter.com
@Ian
Another scary photo here…..shudder!
link to twitter.com
Chris Cairns – Lol.
Chris at 9.52, agreed. In the words of McPhail, he is being furtive, very furtive.
There’s a right ‘bot infection’ and ‘rabid’ attacks underneath Stewart McDonald’s tweet. They are really trying to undermine him at every turn now since the Tommy Robinson incident.
Let’s be vigilant whilst reading btl on tweets and the btl on all msm articles these days, they are in full propaganda mode with the exact same speech patterns and ‘tone’, full of ad hominems and abuse directed against anyone supporting whoever or whatever is being discussed in the atl.
Bit like our recent couple of obvious weirdly familiar ‘sounding’ ones on here.
In terms of ‘tweets’, bots have a lot of numbers after their names and fewer followers than the digits on yer haun.
link to facebook.com
Subsea 7 Mc Phail report .
Cubby
If you are suffering from paranoia then see a specialist.
I’m sure they will be only too happy to help you through this terrible illness you have.
And why not change your name to Ozzy Osborne.
He done alright out of Paranoia.
Nana am no treading in your domain wie ma 10.26 post but ah thought it would compliment GrouseBeaters , an its no aw ma faut wee McGuinness reminded me of it when I shared GBs link on some Yes Pages .
Big Hugs XX.
Morning Ronnie. “my domain” no Ronnie never my domain. I’m grateful to everyone who posts links here, saves my fingers 🙂
Getting ‘This page isn’t available’ when I clicked on your link.
One thing you do notice about the half dozen serial “troll hunters” is that they can give stick out while playing to the crowd,,,but man o man they just can’t take any back.
They just melt when someone has the absolute cheek to answer them back.
It’s my annual ‘hang out a washing and then it snows day’
So I have gone where even Nana fears to tread.
Check out the btl gammon outburst below this report of a ‘rogue ambassador’ tweet.
Oops!
link to archive.is
This is worth a read.
Cameron was warned about ‘stupid referendum’, documentary reveals
Another Tory one.
Revealed: Tory MSP privately raised fears that Fort George would close early
Nana see thats why your the Linker mine diznae work , hope U can correct & repost it Thanks
This mornings answer to Mays problem.
She calls a GE, a lot of her MPs temperately join UKIP, Labour wins, the rest I have said before.
Nana I got that Subsea link fron the League of very Sovereign Scots ( files) , I tried to copy again to no avail .
Ronnie Anderson @ 11.35
That link worked fine for me Ronnie????
Chris Cairns dont U Mr come back oan here efter swanning aboot oan holiday an making demands the Rev an aw us hiv been here keeping the fires burning so’s the pipes dont freeze up lol.
Dinae worry about the pipes Ron, plenty roasters visiting here of late.
🙂
defo ah dey worry aboot the pipes especially the wummins upstairs There’s air in her pipes an feking wakes me up several times a night .
Jezza@10.31am
Now that you have got your childish abuse out there again how about a serious reply to my initial question.
Just a Wee thought – if – and I admit its looking increasingly unlikely –
if, WM calls either a PV or another GE,
And ScotGov decides to have IndyRef 2 on the same day (would save money after all)…
is it possible this would have a neutralising effect on the Holiday Home vote, since they would likely want to use their ‘big’ vote re Brexit at their main home, and would have to nominate one address – or be more likely to be ‘caught out’ if voting twice on the same day?
I suspect its not full proof, especially given postal votes, but in theory, it might prevent quite a lot.
And a second wee thought – what would happen if NS breaks the stalemate, by offering the Scots another People’s Vote on EU membership – along with a vote for IndyRef2.
2 years ago I would have been absolutely dead set against this 2 question Ref…. but if she offers Scotland a PV… just think on the pressure at WM, with English Remainers, to get the same. Its not just the BritNat’s who can divide and conquer.
And think also, of WM’s arguments against it, no, no they would say, Scotland already voted to remain, it doesn’t need another vote. It would highlight again that we are treated like shite.
As for campaigning – no amount of official campaigning could do the damage that WM is currently doing to itself.
Peace and love to all.
@Ronnie
For anyone who can’t see your link, here’s the facebook page for The League of very Sovereign Scots.
link to facebook.com
Last links for now
Good news: Today’s @statisticsONS Labour Market Statistics show that unemployment in Scotland has fallen to 3.6% – the lowest rate on record. Also the first time it has fallen below 100k
link to twitter.com
Donald Tusk on Cameron and the EU ref
link to twitter.com
link to dutchnews.nl
The thing is that as one disrupter realises its time is nearly up, as per the last thread, another one gets up and running ready to take over.
I should have said “is already up and running” and been here for days.
Hi Chris – what about a cartoon then? Or maybe a holiday snap?
I see that the official unemployment rate in Scotland is 3.6% or nearly 4% as the BBC News in Scotland would say.
I wouldn’t read too much into the unemployment figures nana.
UC & the sanction’s inherent have driven people underground/put them off.
As intended, no doubt.
No deal still looking the odds on fav then.
Treeza is running out of can kicking room and there is no consensus to be had, either in or out of parliament. It’s going to be a 6% disaster, or an 8% catastrophe. Them’s the choices on offer (they haven’t altered a jot for yonks now, you know) and both mean massive hardship for the majority for decades.
All that’s required is the official notice. The decision.
At this point, a cynical soul might have to imagine that the can kicking is becoming about the country that must never be mentioned. Pretty telling she’s had more contact with S******h government representation in the past fortnight (at her request) than at any time (other than a courtroom to steal stuff) over the past two years. S******d. Say it vewy, vewy, quietly.
UK politics is currently collapsing at an alarming rate. An already fractured and overly manipulated society, is polarising into very distinct camps. The devolved nations are getting fractious and none more so than the UK’s significant other signatory (that’d be us, the country that dare not be mentioned on telly). Some S******h citizens are beginning to believe they made a fairly grievous error a few years back. They might be right you know.
Whatever the outcome of the next 8-10 weeks? The UK will be a name only kinda thing. The Conservatives and Labour have pretty much killed the concept of joint government and joint parliament stone dead between them. Well done them.
As for how they unite the populations they broke apart? Unite society as a whole after what they’ve done? I don’t think they have it in them tbh. Half of the populations of these islands will never forgive the political class for making them do this. (and who can blame them?) As for getting on with the other half of the population(s)? Only time will tell.
Westminster’s political class and system have already failed. The only damn thing holding it together at all, is the piss poor media. When enough folk have hit the buffers over this latest idiocy? They’re going to be looking for those responsible in order to ask some pointed questions. (shrugs) There won’t be enough column inches, broadcast space, spin or waffle can hide the fact that the buck stops with them, their practices and how they did the day job.
Karma can be a right wee besom sometimes.
It’s hotting up, and I think there may be some surprises to come (pleasant ones) regarding the attitude in the media in Scotland. I certainly hope so!
Capella says:
“Hi Chris – what about a cartoon then? Or maybe a holiday snap?”
———————
Be careful what you say there Capella with “holiday snap”, he probably thinks you mean a snap holiday and then he’s buggered off again……!! 😉
Daisy Walker 12.10
In the unlikely event of a Peoples Vote coming along. Scotland can demand that the Scottish vote is respected, and we are not towed out on Englands shirt tail.
O/T
NHS Dental services in Scotland: Registration and Participation (from ISD Scotland published today)
Registration
5.1 million people were registered with an NHS dentist as at 30 September 2018 (94.2% of the Scottish population). An increase of 1.7 percentage points since last year.
Registration rates were similar for children and adults (94.1% and 94.3% respectively).
97.5% of adults living in the most deprived areas were registered with an NHS dentist compared to 88.6% in the least deprived areas.
Registration rates for children living in the most deprived areas were similar to the rates for those living in the least deprived areas.
Contact with an NHS Dentist (Participation)
As at 30 September 2018, 7 out of 10 registered patients (3.6 million) had seen an NHS dentist within the last two years.
Children are more likely than adults to have seen an NHS dentist within the last two years (84.1% compared to 66.6%).
Children and adults from the most deprived areas are less likely to have seen their dentist than those from the least deprived areas.
For children, 79.8% of patients living in the most deprived areas compared to 89.2% of patients living in the least deprived areas. For adults, 62.2% compared to 72.7%.
I know it is really O/T but what the h*ll it is quite a set of statistics. Well done the dentists.
Also O/T
Front page story in the Herald: Ownership of second homes in Scotland has halved. Not quite so prominently placed in the online Herald.
Reporting ShitLand on day four of pigeon shite headlines, they know their level. They can’t get their heads out of it.
How we used to laugh at the made up nonsense headlines on BBC comedy shows a few decades ago, not realising that BBC Scotland thought they were training videos.
Hi Nana,thanks for the thread re the national insurance contributions, i was gob smacked.So while the uk has amongst the worst pensions in Europe and have to work longer to receive them, Westminster uses the surples to pay of debt they ran up!Sounds a bit like a Robert Maxwell scheme to me.
ONS as we all know we cant depend on anything Westminster produces Employed if a person works 1hour a fortnight ah wonder what the Scottish deficit is this year Grossrail 1billion over budget / London Sewer system over budget / Carillion projects going bust / not forgetting the Nuclear Power plants & the billions wasted .
They don’t use NI to actually pay of debt. What they do is have a single account where everything is held in different budgets but the grand total is negative.
Think of it as a bit like the current account/mortgage deal where you’ve essentially got only one balance and the interest due on the house payments is offset on a daily basis.
Very interesting last 20 minutes on BBC R4
First of all they actually told the truth –
…..A ‘no deal’ Brexit will mean that every single rule and regulation that we have with the EU covering every aspect of our lives will cease to exist and there could be chaos”
Then they had Sir Prof Curtice and his polls – apparently now it is 56% : 44% for remain which Curtice describes as Remain getting ‘marginally’ ahead
( wonder how he would describe the original vote – 52% ; 48% for leave as a significant result??? – my words not his)
And now the MP for Derby saying that the QT audience was most certainly not representative of Derby and he confirmed that he spoken to friends who had been at the recording and they confirmed that Diane Abbott was the subject of negative remarks during the audience warm-up, plus Isabel Oakshott was clearly lying. By the time he said that, the BBC interviewer was clearly getting flustered and quickly needed the interview.
Oh, and I nearly forgot, apparently some family who were planning to cross the channel on May 12th have received a letter saying that Brittany Ferries have to cancel their booking as the Government has requisitioned all the ferry space for essential goods including medical supplies.
Said person was actually a remain voter and is relatively relaxed because she understands that supplies are critical but she questions the motifs of any government that would effectively be creating a situation that she could only consider being replicated if we were being put on a war footing.
Good grief…WM having a self congratulatory w**k-fest over the big issue of the day…Proxy Voting for WM !!
Unbelievable.
There used to be a running joke on Scotland the What with the bar owner of the Glaiket Stirk complaining that despite every angle he is still not making any money.
The UK has, it would seem, near full employment and record percentages economically active. Yet tax receipts are slow and we still have austerity and a deficit.
People working a few hours a week on zero hours contracts, sanctioned unemployed and not allowing women to retire till they are 66 will massage the figures but it doesn’t make for a wealthy economy. We are sinking backwards. Mogg etc represents 1930s social attitudes and 1930s economics.
We have to exit the asylum or become forever institutionalised.
In today’s whodathunk news…
link to archive.is
It’s just staggering how this gov is still being allowed to repeat the exact same spiel day in and day out since that ‘historic’ defeat last week. I mean EU is just continually within moments batting the baw back every time May says ‘backstop changes’. And then 24 hours later the msm splatter it on their online/dsp front pages as if it’s fucking ‘new’ news.
This isn’t reporting, this is the msm enabling and assisting in ‘running down the clock’. They are not informing the population of these islands about the true meaning and if they are…it’s wee snippets nearly 2 and half years later, meaning most people are woefully uninformed about what ‘no deal’ really means.
Every layer of the so called ‘civic’ arm of our society have wilfully ignored what has been apparent on this forum since 2016’s vote. It’s one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the UK population since the beginning of privatisation, pfi, right to buy, it follows the same pattern of the UK being ‘softened up’ to enable a massive re distribution of wealth from the many to the few.
No one wins anything wi this Brexit except those wealthy upper classes who’ll take part in the biggest fire sale in world history as this Tory government finishes what it started wi Thatcher.
The wholesale removal of every workers/employment rights that has been fought for, for over a hundreds years, the selling off ‘trade agreements’, of anything that can be sold with Britain now open to ‘market forces’, those big agri firms in the States lobbying for our resources whilst public services will be turned over to private sharks.
It’s beyond belief that people don’t understand that they were sold down the river, and always will be by the Tories, blue and red, but it’s totally expected that the BBC and every newspaper that they use for their propaganda pish is up to their eyes in lying to the ‘Great British’ public about what’s coming down the road.
God fucking help us if we don’t get out of this.
And we all know here….if ‘no deal’ is the disaster that they are pretending ‘no body wants’ some eleventh hour deal will be arranged for the ‘hard brexit’ that is really what they are after to go ahead, the msm will report it as ‘well whoopee we’ve been saved at the last minute’.
But hard Brexit is just as bad and it’s out of cu out of sm and the exact same result will follow.
Meg Merrilees @ 1.35 pm
All really interesting Meg.
Not at all my biggest concern, but I did wonder what would happen to ordinary planned holidays/trips in the event of expected travel disruption. THAT will really rile folk who thought life would be just hunkydory with a No Deal/Bad Deal exit from the EU.
STV are also now reporting the CBI warning of the seriously bad impact on business in Scotland with a No Deal Brexit.
(The stark warning that the Scottish Government has been broadcasting for months!)
The cynic in me sees the media’s reporting choices as maybe promoting accepting May’s Truly Pants Deal or else.
Will the British media headline the new polls now showing the population’s revised opinion on staying in the EU?
Will they ever air the idea that Article 50 can be revoked?
Or is it too much in the media’s best interests to have real mayhem unleashed on the land giving them wonderful screechy headlines to play with for years to come?
K1
Spot on.
@handandshrimp.
Quite how the tories and their pet media have managed to sell the myth of Tories being the Party of fiscal responsibility is beyond any sense.
2010 to 2019, crushing austerity, slash and burning of public services, pay freezes or maximum 1% ‘increases’.
Yet the National debt has went up by over £1 TRILLION in that 8 years.
Yet NOBODY in the media, or even the general public (except for the politically savvy in Scotland) seems in a hurry to ask, WHERE is that £1 Trillion plus ?
8 years of austerity to take about £60bn off the annual Deficit! (Was around £103bn, now about £40bn).
But there is the brutal reality coming soon with Scottish Independence.
Remember that recent BBC interview when we were told that brexit will cost the uk £200bn in losses, and how that would be like losing Scotland’s revenues overnight ?
Well, even being super conservative (sic) and calling it £100bn/year, that jumps the deficit (WM’s post Yes) to £140bn, going to as high as £240bn if we use the BBC interview figure.
Which begs the actual question, how will WM deal with those deficit figures, while STILL having to service their debt (currently around 50-odd billion/year in interest alone), bearing in mind the measures taken to cut the post crash deficit from £103bn down to £40bn over 8 years and counting?
Rees-Mogg may well get his Victorian Values for dear old England with Scottish Independence.
More concerning, is what happens when the electorate down south says to the government, “hold on, you said WE subsidise Scotland”!!
That cannot end well.
I find it very hard to comment on Brexit itself, as it comes down to one word.
Complete and utter madness.
That was 4 🙂
@Robert J. Sutherland says: 21 January, 2019 at 10:25 pm:
” … one possible off-the-wall preemptive Plan B for the SG might be to have all SNP MPs resign and stand for re-election on an independence ticket.”
Oh! for heaven’s sake, Robert, every SNP elected member since the SNP was formed in 1934 has stood on an independence ticket. It is the party’s reason to exist.
I don’t want to be stuck in a mindset of ‘belief’ about our independence…to wrap a blanket of false comfort around myself. Independence hasn’t been and isn’t assured ‘yet’ and no matter how much we all think that it is coming, we still do not have the ‘out’, right ‘now’.
Brexit has to be faced for what it is ‘now’. It was never a reason for our independence, it has become one because of ‘events’, we didn’t choose this but we are not legally able to distance ourselves from it ‘yet’.
Which means we are at the mercy of these forces.
And we must keep informing others on here and out here what this ‘actually’ means in ‘real terms’ for Scotland, right now.
There are 99.000 people unemployed in Scotland but 4% unemployed in England or as the BBC like to call it these days THE UK
Now that’s what I call BBC Yoon reporting because 4% looks a lot less than 99.000 which is the lowest unemployment figure in recorded Scottish history
I’ll leave to you to work out the numbers for Engl, I mean UK
Geoo, re Tories reducing deficit, smoke and mirrors, from getting the boe to payback interest due from government on qe costs to putting royal mail pension fund into reducing it one year. If it has come down its certainly not bymutch.
Meg merrilees @ 13:35,
A curious programme in more than one way. An evident struggle to maintain party lines on Brexit in the face of the latest poll information, the Labour MP as much as the announcer. In this Great Democracy the people have spoken but they have to jolly well shut up now because it doesn’t fit the big party agendas.
And the continuing spat about bias on the latest QT. Labour unhappy while I’m muttering at the radio “welcome to the club”. And the announcer of course has to conclude with the standard BBC party line, nothing to see, all perfectly OK.
As if.
Dr Jim , are the Scottish Government using thr same methodogy for determing if somebody is in employment as UK Government? the UK says that if somebody on a zero hours contract works for two hours or more per fortnight then they are classified as being in employment. Remember a stushie when this fact became public knowledge before Christmas but dont know if Scots Government use same criteria, anybody know?
@K1 says:21 January, 2019 at 10:35 pm:
That comment about the Guardian made me laugh.K1.
I had read, on-line, the Guardian had began to wrap its weekend supplements in a new compostable wrapper made from potatoes instead of the customary clear plastic.
It had immediately run through me mind that the new wrapper was very appropriate as it added tatties to the mince they usually sell as news.
@Lenny Hartley
I wouldn’t have a scooby but you would guess if one lot is using a methodology to count unemployment numbers the other lot would use the same methodology, level playing field and all that I suppose
Westminster remains, under the radar, a Colonial power, with all its colonial habits and instincts intact, among which, treachery rules supreme, ably backed up by a complete disregard for the human suffering they inflict in their relentless pursuit of power and the wealth of their colonised states – like Scotland.
Robert Peffers @ 14:29,
In 2017 you could have fooled me, what with that “stronger for Scotland” thin gruel. And I’m by no means the only one. Many of whom were so underwhelmed they stayed at home, with consequences only too apparent today.
But you never fail to disappoint, once again missing the main point I was making by a country mile, all for the sake of some semantic nit-picking. Of course we all know what the SNP stands for, though some non-indy voters do respond to the moderate line.
What I was trying to explore, for those who can’t see the wood for the bark patterns on the trees, was the possibilities for what in effect would be an indyref by proxy, especially in the context of no overall UKGE. Would the evident limitations be too great, or (lacking any better alternative) could such a tactic work nevertheless…?
@Dr Jim and lenny: Westminster uses different methodology for A&E waiting times, remember?
Or to put it another way, Scotland’s measure is clear and honest and generous – 4 hours to be fully treated and discharged or moved to a ward.
In England it is 4 hours of waiting for the first contact with staff.
@lenny hartley.
Absolutely agree with that, however, the figure i quoted are the figures put out in the public domain, so i used those figures as identifiable to people for comparison and illustrative purposes.
Us political anoraks know the figure has been massaged as you rightly say.
If the numbers were ever to be counted accurately one would guess that *Britain* holds the world record for slaughtering around the globe
On BBC2 last night was a documentary of their brutal involvement in South Africa and India which ran into millions of deaths directly attributed to the glorious *British Empire* and but for Ghandi would have continued with many more
I’m sure they’ve negotiated that figure down since then though or even Harry Pottered it away
Expelliamous we killed nobody it wiz them foreigners wot dun it to themselves guv
@Sarah 2:57pm
You are indeed correct, hospital numbers are calculated much more fairly in Scotland
I think that’s because we’re quite good at hospitaling up here
Geeo @ 2.24 pm
Mibee if they stayed in the EU and the new tax haven laws were allowed to come into force THAT new revenue would go some way to clearing their deficit =)
That and hauling in the taxes due from the usual suspects.
I too wonder what will happen if the truth is ever revealed about Scotland’s contribution. Maybe pride and self preservation will keep those elite mouths shut. It’ll all just a big mystery why the British empire ain’t doing so well even without the burden of those pesky Scots.
I sell outside the EU and inside the EU, neither straightforward, but with the EU once you follow one set of rules and procedures, you have access to 27 EU countries. For other countries you have to look up and form fill for every single one differently. The US isn;t easy but the Customs and agencies are very helpful, plus they have online registration facilities. Australia curiously is very well documented online.
One of these days I might put a more full posting about it, can’t be bothered.
The EU ain’t perfect but once you follow the rules for the EU as a whole, you have access to a market of over a half billion people and 27 / 28 countries. The customs are, well, easy or non-existent, it’s more product following EU regs as transposed into member state legislation is the problem.
What export stats don’t take into account as far as I can see, is the percentage contribution of SMEs and in particular, micro-entities. The work overhead for a micro-entity trying to survive is proportionately ginormous even as it is. I miss opportunites because of it. WTO will be a total disaster.
Madness? Leaving the EU is bonkers.
O/T
“Commission spokesman says that if there’s a no deal Brexit ‘you will have a hard border’ in Ireland. First time it’s been put so explicitly on the record… Commission spokesman also said ‘a no deal Brexit will clearly, clearly put’ the peace process and cross-border cooperation ‘in risk’.” from link to twitter.com
Of course, the BitNat loyalists will be quite happy if this EU-imposed ‘hard border’ occurs but what will the Nationalist community in N.I. make of it? Will they turn against the EU?
Maybe if the UK weren’t so unpopular they wouldn’t need squillions of quids spent on unusable war machinery and they could spend it on stuff people need, y’know like lots of other countries do
‘No deal’ just won’t go away. One of the seriously worrying things about it is, there are ordinary folks out there confused about what it is.
You see a car and want to trade in yours. You haggle all day. But ‘no deal’. So you leave the garage in your existing car and nothing has changed.
So often I’m seeing the suggestion that some not politically aware ordinary folks see ‘no deal’ Brexit as being like that. Or, something like it. Harmless. The option for no change.
Jeez! How wrong could they be.
The car analogy with Brexit would be … You see a car and want to trade in yours. You haggle all day. But ‘no deal’. So you walk outside, set fire to your existing car, and from then on have to walk everywhere!
What a thick bunch of useless wankers Scottish Labour are. Truly pathetic and unbelievably inept.
I think I can add to that car analogy.
Brexit = You walk into a garage, you have no car and repeatedly tell the garage that ‘IF’ they don’t give you the car you want, you’ll walk out the garage without a car. ‘No Deal’ = you will definitely be taking your imaginary car with you to sell it your imaginary friends.
Proud cybernetic @ 3.23
Forcing the EU to put a hard border on Ireland,will, I think, translate into a ” punishment ” Brexit very quickly.
It’s really the only thing that the EU could do to bring Westminster to it’s senses and back to the table!!
These people are insane certifuckinfiable, we need to leave them to it and get out..
Can we see it through to indyref2, I hope so.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Jings! That Craig Murray piece on WoS twitter is a must read.
So we now have a Tory MP with a distinctly Polish sounding surname writing to the Polish government asking them to black any attempt at revoking of A50. Channel 4’s Jon Snow on twitter.
Indyref2 @0318 pm “ leaving the EU is bonkers” , as a whole you have access to half a billion people& 27/28 countries “ consequently, if this outcome is endorsed by HOC and becomes inevitable and our FM is satisfied re absolute clarification, then should the people of Scotland be asked the following question in the context of the EU/U.K. ?
Should Scotland remain in the EU and withdraw from the U.K.
or
Should Scotland remain in the U.K. and withdraw from the EU
?? thoughts anyone??
K1@2.08: very well said. The BBC and tabloid-owning billionaires must bear most of the responsibility for enabling the madness of Tory Brexit and the Pravdasound 4 programme involving the Derby MP which Meg Merrilees and RJS mentioned was typically duplicitous, slimily suggesting the (justified) complaints about QT were simply orchestrated by Labour.
Of course, the State Propagandist must keep the plebs in their mushroom status, otherwise the pitchforks and pikes would be out, and we’d all be heading for the castle.
What a carve-up!
“Brexit-backing businessman Sir James Dyson is to relocate the Dyson head office from the UK to Singapore.
The bombshell announcement will mean Dyson is no longer a British registered company and Singapore will become its main tax base.
The headquarter switch from Malmesbury, Wiltshire, is likely to prove controversial given that Sir James – the company’s billionaire chairman, founder and owner – is an outspoken proponent of Brexit.
link to archive.fo
Michty me, who’d have thought such a thing possible?
@North chiel
I’d prefer two referendums.
1. Should Scotland be an Independent Country? YES / NO
then later, and I think the EU might insist on it
2. Should Scotland become a full member of the EU? YES / NO
or Should Scotland become a memebr of EFTA / EEA? YES / NO
Question 2 would need to be reworded so as to make it multi-answer, like EU YES, EFTA YES, neither NO, or EU NO, EFTA YES, neither NO. Or even NO NO YES.
If you see what I mean!
But keep them separate, and hopefully while the second Ref was being waited for we’d be in a holding pen / backstop arrangement, while negotiating terms – possibly for both EU and EFTA / EEA so the people of Scotland can make a choice.
Currently I’d be a (reluctant still it ain’t perfect) EU YES plus an EFTA / EEA YES.
Rueters reporting P&O re flagging its entire UK registered fleet to Cyprus ahead of Brexit
link to twitter.com
Could I suggest that a no deal Brexit is becoming a certainty for ‘big Businesses’ now? And do remember they will have more inside information ahead of us on the process that is taking place and the likelihood…just think…gagging orders and that falls into place.
After Independence the Scottish government will stand down to make way for elections for a new government so it’s anybody’s guess who would be voted in or what their positions might be on whichever version of EU style membership might be
We can guess who it’s more likely to be but who knows, elections can throw up all sorts of surprises and people you though were dead against things suddenly change their minds miraculously
Murdo Fraser will become a born again republican £5 bet
Kezia Dugdale will become a dedicated Green party person
Richard Leonard will go back to being a robbing GMB union man, he’ll have no chance in politics
Anas Sarwar will ask to join the SNP who he’s always admired
I look upon the news that Dyson moving their tax base to Singapore means that he believes we will remain in eu good result.
Scotland has another island, never seen for 150 years
link to offgridquest.com
@Thepnr
Dyson and P&O
Aye! Suck it up UK…we’re off. 🙂
THIS;
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Has left me very angry and raises a lot of questions about not just Leslie Evans, but the SNP leadership itself (what on earth are they playing at?).
Just really desperately sad about the whole thing. Alex Salmond is a champion of Scotland and deserves much, much better than this. I know he has said we should focus on indyref, but it does raise an awful lot of questions. In the meantime the best thing the FM could do, is stop apologising for the lies (as demonstrated in court) perpetrated by the civil service against Salmond, and get rid of Evans.
The doos’ dos do continues on BBC and they told a blatant lie on the news where we are by saying “as a result of pigeon infection” when reporting the death of the two patients when this is not in fact the case.
Desperation is where they are now and I refuse to believe we are not now ahead in the polls.
We are on the starting line alongside our opponents and we will pull away as the race actually starts.
As I said recently it is now 50% YES, 30% NAW and 20% don’t know. They need all the “don’t Knows”.
Nae chance
It’s hard to believe that there appear to be many people on the side of Independence that fail to see the “divide and rule” tactics of the UK state as being an actual thing.
Taking sides in any “civil war” always results in tragedy. We aught to know better and right now we know nothing. Just saying.
Call me Dave @ 4.17
Well it certainly is one take on the situation!
While I can believe that Craig’s narrative is plausible, the motives for her response are pure conjecture.
I’m still not seeing what else Nicola could have done.
If the British state are out to get Alex Salmond, and they almost certainly are…. They are going to do it anyway and the whole sorry tale needs to play out.
While yes that woman and her side kick should resign,is Nicola sacking them really her best option?
What’s keeping them from resigning is the real question here?
And if it isn’t a good move for Nicola to sack them then she is obviously going to have to say she has confidence in them!
So I still can’t see what else she could have done!
Every move has consequences and not to get caught up in the game’s of the British State is probably the least worst!
While those two are still clinging on,I don’t think Alex Salmond is finished with the Scottish Civil service yet,so I can see why the Office of the First Minister should keep a professional distance.