The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

Being economical without the truth

Posted on April 06, 2017 by

We’ve been trying to take advantage of the current lull in politics, with Holyrood in recess for Easter, to have a bit of a semi-break. Having to watch all the Unionist party conferences in March is always toxic to the soul, and with the gargantuan torrent of insane lies emanating from the indyref2 and Article 50 developments to deal with as well, this year’s was even grimmer than usual.

So when all the papers went heavy on this morning’s news that the Scottish economy had a slight retraction in the last quarter of 2016 and filled their pages with rentaquote drivel from the opposition parties about how it was all the SNP’s fault, our first instinct was to simply direct readers back to this piece from last October, detailing how the Scottish Government – by design – controls almost none of Scotland’s meaningful economic levers, and go to the movies again.

But then a headline in the Scotsman’s article changed our minds. Because we thought we should see which policies they actually wanted changed.

The paper’s second paragraph said:

“The Scottish Government has been told to drop its calls for a second independence referendum and focus on economic growth amid claims that ministers are ‘out of touch’ over the impact of their policies.”

But we already know that referendums don’t damage the economy. During the heat of the first independence campaign, Scottish businesses actually attracted an all-time record level of investment.

Indeed, it wasn’t until shortly after the No vote that Scottish growth started to diverge negatively from that of the UK.

…which may have been due to a dramatic plunge in national pride – reversing a long trend of improvement – after Scotland became practically the only first-world country in history ever to democratically reject taking control of its own affairs.

So other than not having another indyref – presumably on the grounds that voting No again would make us even more depressed – what was it the Unionist parties were actually suggesting the Scottish Government should do to turn the economy round?

“UK government Minister for Scotland Andrew Dunlop said the figures should prompt the Scottish Government to ‘take a second independence referendum off the table ‘

Lord Dunlop said: ‘There has been no growth over the past year and the gap between Scotland and the rest of the UK continues to grow.

The economy in Scotland has huge potential, but what we need now is for the Scottish Government to use their unprecedented powers to make Scotland more competitive and return its economy to growth.'”

Nope, that’s still just “no second referendum”. Demanding they should exercise their “unprecedented powers” is no good unless you specify which ones and how.

“The GMB union raised the prospect that Scotland could ‘sleepwalk back to recession’ unless more was done to stimulate the economy.

GMB Scottish secretary Gary Smith said: ‘The news is full of political noise at the moment – but underneath all the words is a harsh, tough reality for the people of Scotland.

These GDP figures show once again how the economy is struggling; unemployment is up; insecure employment is growing faster here; public sector workers and service users are being hit by huge cuts and those cuts in public services will get worse in the years ahead.

And our politicians seem to be more interested in pursuing their own pet projects than confronting the problem.'”

“Do more” is not a strategy. More of WHAT?

“Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: ‘Given the lag in publishing figures, we may already technically be in another recession.

No Scottish Government ministers have acknowledged this risk and the role played in it by their independence obsession.

Instead of playing the blame game, the Scottish Government should be setting out clear and credible plans to turn this around.'”

Such as what, Willie?

“Scottish Labour’s Jackie Baillie said: ‘Rather than focusing on boosting growth by investing in the economy and creating jobs, Nicola Sturgeon is swanning around the US talking up the prospects of another independence referendum.'”

Labour’s grand plan is apparently not only to take a second referendum off the table, but for the First Minister to stay at home rather than travelling all over the globe during the Parliamentary recess in search of investment.

You certainly wouldn’t catch a Scottish Labour leader “swanning around the US” when there was important work to be done, of course.

(Parliament, incidentally, was NOT in recess during Dugdale’s ill-fated US jaunt. It had in fact just come back from its autumn break when she flew off to help Clinton lose.)

Perhaps the Tories had some constructive ideas?

“Conservative shadow finance secretary Murdo Fraser said the Scottish economy was facing a ‘crisis’.

‘These are deeply worrying figures which show that Scotland under the SNP is now on the brink of a recession,’ Mr Fraser said. ‘Nicola Sturgeon’s Scottish Government must take responsibility for this mess.'”

But “take responsibility” isn’t a plan either. What should they actually DO? Fraser went to the additional trouble of penning an entire article on the Scottish Conservatives website to fail to explain what specific actions he wanted Nicola Sturgeon to take.

“She has made Scotland the highest-taxed part of the UK and created more instability and uncertainty with her threat of a second referendum.

Now we see the real-life impact of her mismanagement. More than ever, Scotland needs a First Minister in charge who gets back to her desk, ends her obsession with a second referendum, and focuses on her day job.

Scotland’s economy is facing a crisis. We need a Scottish Government in charge, not a campaign for independence.”

We already know, of course, that the “highest-taxed part of the UK” line (also repeated in the press today by Liz Cameron, CEO of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce) is a complete lie. Any business moving from Scotland to the rest of the UK will almost certainly find itself, its owners and its employees paying MORE tax, not less.

So it seems they’ve got nothing. All three Unionist parties are fighting for ownership of a single magic bullet which will apparently fix the ailing economy – abandon any thought of a second independence referendum, and go ahead with the economic death wish of Brexit under a UK Tory government.

Scotland has no political opposition. Their only ideology is “no to independence”. Their only policy is “don’t have a referendum”. The only thing they believe in is letting the UK government run Scotland’s economy, then blaming the SNP when it’s a mess.

It’s a real mystery why they don’t get more votes.

Print Friendly

    1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 06 04 17 14:56

      Being economical without the truth | speymouth

    274 to “Being economical without the truth”

    1. sydthesnake says:

      your on the money again Stu, real mystery why they are not miles ahead in the poles with their shrewd tactics of SNP bad,


    2. K1 says:

      Here’s Nicola ‘swanning about’ at the UN. Please note whilst the Scottish Parliament is in recess Dugdale!

    3. Al-Stuart says:

      Stu., thank you for another excellent article. I’ve stopped watching BBC Scotland and can’t find that nightly flagship BBC newsnicht 5 minute segment “Scotland 2017” or whatever it morphed into.

      I now get all my politcal news and facts from Wings Over Scotland.

      My question is this, please can I transfer the £12 I pay to the BBC each month to Wings Over Scotland? Why oh why don’t you have a television channel 🙂

    4. K1 says:

      The first link above is the snippet off the main event, (wherein she answers a question regarding ‘breaking nations’). Here’s the whole UN speech with Q&A:

    5. Johnny says:

      Excellent work, Stu.

      I’d also wonder to what extent the diverging growth patterns from just following the first indyref might be the result of backdoor punishments handed down from Westminster such as the removal of renewable subsidies?

    6. Jamur says:

      Lasted until the line “Jackie Baillie said ”
      Now off to drink bleach.

    7. Com’n Nicola, wave that magic wand!

    8. FatCandy says:

      At least Dugdale was courting the favour of a cardboard cutout of Billary when she was in the US.

      All wee Jimmy Krankie’s been doing is living it up promoting equality and peace at the UN and hanging with some hippy governor or something.

      June Unist
      Professional ProudScotBut

    9. Graeme McCormick says:

      I wonder what the Unionists would say if the SNP government said it was going to abolish income and corporation taxes in an independent Scotland and replace them with an Annual Ground Rent.

      That would provide a huge boost to all taxpayers but especially those in business and also to those who would find Scotland the most attractive place in the world to do business.

    10. Ken J says:

      “It’s a real mystery why they don’t get more votes.”

      For me, the real mystery is how they get ANY votes, given the nonsense they each spout.

    11. Auld Rock says:

      I seem to remember that Jumping Jack was a regular visitor to NY and then there was that dreadful pic of him in that dreadful kilt on St. Andrew’s day march in NY.

      Auld Rock

    12. K1 says:

      Want to understand the real problem with all their bleating tropes about the ‘failing’ Scottish economy’? Why none of their schtick about this all being ‘SNP bad’ holds water under even the slightest scrutiny?

      Then read this:

    13. Dan Huil says:

      Britnats don’t realize their hysterical headlines about Scotland’s economy are actually excellent adverts for independence.

    14. W Habib Steele says:

      What can we do to get your articles on tv and radio? How much would it cost? Would crowd-funding be an answer or part of it? I’m living outside Scotland again, now, and I don’t have the skills to run a crowd funding campaign. I feel somewhat helpless and frustrated. I write comments on some of the English newspaper articles, but that’s preaching to folk deafened by Unionist ideology and propaganda.

      Some brainstorming by a number of people may help.

    15. Macart says:

      It’s quite staggering that none of the above mentioned unionist representatives are aware of who does actually have control of macroeconomic policy.

      We could of course had such control and they would then have had at least a point to make on responsibility had we opted for independence in 2014.

      But we didn’t.

      The government and parliament solely responsible for the economy of ALL constituent parts of the UK is Westminster. The ministers responsible are Conservative. How and ever if folks are still in any doubt…

      Just go here and see for yourself:

      Now assuming for a moment that those mentioned above the line are indeed fully aware of these competences, that leads you to consider only one other logical conclusion. That they are in point of fact deliberately misleading the Scottish electorate. That they are deflecting responsibility for their own complicity in leading Scotland down a constitutionally and economically catastrophic path.

      Though in the case of Jamie Greene and Wee Wullie we might simply go for the explanation of cluelessness. I doubt they could find their own arse with the aid of a six man mountain rescue team and access to a GPS nevermind a web page on the Scottish parliaments own site.

      In 2014 the YES movement lost. The winner however made pledges and assurances to the people of Scotland. The winners promised broad shoulders in times of economic hardship. They promised stability, job security, safe pensions, a steady hand at the tiller.

      Heads up!

      You don’t get to be the winner, rig the Scotland bill and Smith commission proposals against devo max/FFA, bin the Sewel convention and claim absolute sovereignty and authority in the land and then walk away from your responsibilities when things go pear shaped on you.

      You don’t get to deflect or shift the blame for a thing when you worked so very hard to ensure you retained absolute control.

      We’re still watching and we’re still waiting for better togetherness.

      In your own time then.

    16. Proud Cybernat says:

      ‘Rood Almighty! We’ve (not) Got The Power

    17. Scott Murray says:

      Reminds me of the underpant gnomes in south park. When the kids asked why they stole underpants, they laid out their plan:

      Step A: steal underpants!

      Step B: ????

      Step C: profit!

    18. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “My question is this, please can I transfer the £12 I pay to the BBC each month to Wings Over Scotland?”

      You sure can 🙂

    19. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the question directed towards the FM at the UN, concerning the breaking of nations. What concerned me was that the Englishman asking the question, an employee of the UN(?), appeared to think Britain is a nation. This is the sort pig-headed prejudice we are up against folks.

      I would have thought the UN might have a policy of not employing colonially minded bigots. Apparently not.

    20. PhilM says:

      Remember when the GDP figures were recalculated to include the proceeds of crime like drugs and prostitution…well the City brings in a lot of money from around the world and they sure do like their cocaine and their sex-slaves…so isn’t this at least once case of double-counting?

    21. Glenn says:

      This is really a sad reflection on the state of modern day politicing. It’s not about what your party would do….it’s all about how bad the other parties are.

      I believe that politicians today are actually AFRAID to express a positive proposal on how they (or their party) would deal with a particular situation or construct a policy for fear that it gives the opposition something tangible to tear apart.

      It leaves the casual observer/voter – i.e. those who don’t have the inclination or wherewithall to check out a party’s manifesto – with nothing but negatives on which to base their selection.

      Fortunately, the experience of indyref1 has made Scots a bit more aware of this, and be more likely to use a bit of critical thinking, and perhaps to seek out more in depth answers than just accepting negativity as a campaigning tool.

    22. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      What other country in the world would put up with such incessant negativity from its opposition politicians, continually trying to chip away and destroy its own sense of self-worth? Whose only success is in persuading people with any gumption that their future belongs somewhere – anywhere – else? The very people whom we need to stay and keep our economy vibrant and successful?

      And to what end do these professional cringers and self-doubters work so assiduously – so that we can remain a resource-rich colony to be ruthlessly exploited for the benefit of people elsewhere?

      I just wonder when the Unionists in particular and the unsuspecting public in general finally twig that this unrelenting media misery about how “badly” Scotland is doing is, if anything, due to the Tory UKGov’s gross mismanagement of the Scottish economy.

      It’s UKGov which holds all the real economic levers, so that’s the one to blame. That’s the useless crew we need to jettison, and the sooner the better.

    23. Scott says:

      Scottish Secretary David Mundell will travel to Burma and Singapore this week to promote Scotland’s business interests.

      Why are the tories,Lib and lab not up in arms about him should he not be here doing the day job,oh sorry he is not SNP.
      What a bunch of hypocrites these people are.

    24. heedtracker says:

      Yes yes, as important an economic issue this is for Scotland, whatabout that nice English lady that had a weewee on golf course outside Aberdeen?!

      “Sheriff attacks Trump golf course complaint about woman urinating
      Trump Organisation warned in court its staff are at risk of prosecution for photographing women, even though Rohan Beyts lost privacy case”

      Severin Carrell, The Guardian.

    25. sassenach says:

      Scott @2-33pm

      Living in the Beard-muncher’s constituency, I must say I love it when he’s away in Singapore – boring them to death I assume.

      Wonder if Baby Fluff is doing his ‘day job’ for him while he’s gone…….Oh dear!

    26. jfngw says:

      I feel like a spouse who has given my partner one last chance only to find my bank account is still being raided and the door has been locked so I cannot escape.

    27. maureen says:

      hi Stu, you are asking on twitter if anyone is having problems seeing image or homepage. I can get twitter no bother but not wings over scotland. Don’t know why I can get twitter but not wings. I can get both on kindle, desktop, but not my actual mobile.

    28. maureen says:

      on the mobile, it says: the webpage at might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
      Been like that for a few days now.

    29. Kupo says:

      You (a real jurnalist) deserve a payrise, Stu. The information is like a jigsaw puzzle with all the pieces out of sync needing to be put together. Then the big picture, when complete, is the truth, with a little bit of hypocrisy of the oppisition added in for good measure. This is REAL jurnalism compared to the pathetic output we get from the MSM. This is why I love reading these articles.

    30. Arbroath1320 says:

      I can only assume that when unionists demand the Scottish Government should exercise their “unprecedented powers” they are making this statement on the grounds that the Scottish government is the most powerful devolved government in the world. 😀

      Newsflash for all unionists.

      The Scottish government is NOT the most powerful devolved government in the world but of course you already know that. You just like to spout shite and LIES against the Scottish government cause it makes you feel less ignorant and incompetent.

    31. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. the anti-indy party. They apparently do not appreciated the internal linkage between human rights and social justice, otherwise they might be more responsive to local circumstances. Not not to those in Islington, to Scotland’s.

      p.s. Brexit does not only indicate a reckless approach towards macro-economic management, Westminster intends it will be an extremely exclusionary process which strips a nation of basic, inalienable human rights. Not cool.

      Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development

      Our shared principles and commitments

      10. The new Agenda is guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, including full respect for international law. It is grounded in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, international human rights treaties, the Millennium Declaration and the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document. It is informed by other instruments such as the Declaration on the Right to Development.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    32. defo says:

      Nothing unusual here.
      I want my surprise ! (promised on twitter)

    33. Capella says:

      I can’t get WoS on my Samsung tablet android browser. Get message “Couldn’t establish a secure connection”. I cleared out the cache and cookies but no joy.
      I can get it on my Chrome browser on the tablet so not all is lost.
      It’s fine on my PC running Windows 8.1. Howeverf, there is a little information favicon to the left of the web URL. It says that attackers might be able to change the images I see and trick me by modifying them. Maybe a more security conscious browser just won’t load it.

    34. yerkitbreeks says:

      Agreed the current mantra of Unionists is forget Inde, get on with the day job. But – there is such a way to go in the self-harming Brexit negotiations that crises elsewhere down the line will dilute out the wails.

    35. CameronB Brodie says:

      Correction: Westminster will not strip human rights from Scotland, as we have never had them to enjoy in the first place. That is how politically oppressed Scotland is! In the 21st century!

    36. galamcennalath says:

      Excellent article!

      May I be presumptuous and summarise?

      The Yoons have no rescue plan for Scotland only a death wish to accept Brexit by avoiding ScotRef.

      Sad ba5tards!

      No wonder Scots are depressed. One half pissed off and sickened that the other half are Hell bent on the self harm of following London over a cliff edge.

    37. Bob Mack says:

      Remember that these figures are extrapolated from GDP and measure the difference between import and export.

      The exact same scenario that applies to GERS also applies to these figures. Basically the Treasury can say what the figures are without contradiction. In order for them to be truly accurate we would need to know exactly what Scotlands contributions were, but as we already know there is no method of so doing. It could be absolute rubbish.It is guesswork.

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      maureen @ 14:48,
      Capella @ 14:56,

      O/T After the recent site security upgrade, I stopped getting WoS on my (older) browser until I discovered that the security protocol now being used, TLS 1.2, wasn’t enabled by default in the browser. Using its config to enable that protocol fixed the problem, for me anyway.

    39. maureen says:

      Capella says:
      6 April, 2017 at 2:56 pm

      I can’t get WoS on my Samsung tablet android browser. Get message “Couldn’t establish a secure connection”. I cleared out the cache and cookies but no joy.
      I can get it on my Chrome browser on the tablet so not all is lost.
      It’s fine on my PC running Windows 8.1. Howeverf, there is a little information favicon to the left of the web URL. It says that attackers might be able to change the images I see and trick me by modifying them. Maybe a more security conscious browser just won’t load it.

      I use tor on the desktop, works fine on that and it’s silk on the kindle. will download chrome on my mobile to see if that works.

    40. Bugger (le Panda) says:

      Do you know what really gets to irk the Yoon “leaders”
      Ruthie meets bufallos, tanks & comics
      Kezia meets cardboat cutouts
      Wullie meets pigs

      Nicola meets real World leaders and Scotland looks daily more and more like a big grown up country.

      We are becoming, in front of our eyes independent.

      They want Scotland to fail and be a backwater a jumped up parish council.

      These are therir orders from London

    41. Capella says:

      Well it’s time to donate to the next referendum fund. Nearly half way to the £1 m target with 76 days left to go.

      As for the supposed shrinking of the economy by a whole 0.2% – surely the figures for this sort of guesstimate will be just as unreliable as GERS. We can’t believe anything the Unionists say, especially about Scottish finance.

    42. Bob Mack says:


      I had the same problem until I switched to Google Chrome. I think the Rev’s new set up is incompatible with some browsers.

    43. maureen says:

      Thanks Capella, chrome downloaded and can access Wings now!

    44. Capella says:

      @ Robert Sutherland – thanks Robert will try that on my tablet.

    45. t42 says:

      only the economic management argument left, so you get press headlines like this:

      “Scottish economy shrinks while the rest of the UK grows
      Economics will play a key role in the debate if a new Independence referendum is called…”

      and here is the bbcs website guide to the local elections:

      “Who is standing?
      A total of 4,851 council seats are up for grabs across England, Wales and Scotland.
      Labour are defending 1,535 seats
      The Conservatives are defending 1,136 seats
      The Lib Dems are defending 484 seats
      UKIP are defending 146 seats
      The Green Party is defending 34 seats”

      They cant even bring

    46. maureen says:

      Robert J Sutherland
      Bob Mack

      I just thought it was my phone, because it was working on on desktop and kindle. It never even occurred to me that it was my browser.

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      Pre-indyref2 epiphany. I’m a post-structuralist, vegetarian, social-justice worrier. Does anyone know if there is an appropriate ointment? 🙂

    48. Chocolass says:

      Still can’t believe the relish with which Jackie Burd announces
      Scotland baaad!
      Must stop watching……

    49. K1 says:

      Ah suppose that does look tidier and it looked a bit long winded on the page, it was for the casual browser…naebdy clicks oan the links…ergo ergo 🙂

    50. Robert Graham says:

      As f42 points out @ 3.17 – the Unionists control the Horizontal and the vertical , and the sound , along with all print media and they still haven’t managed to silence us , Now that must really trouble them, nothing they do has worked, so anyone who doubts we can win take heart, this lot , as with Canute can’t hold back the tide, it’s only a matter of time , and they know it. Truth will in the end Win .

    51. Ian McCubbin says:

      A very good discussion Stu. I will coy this to Murdo. I have him a request to say what he want FM to do and pointed out that WM is cause of recession in Scotland.

    52. Phil Robertson says:

      You really do perform a full range of contradictions in this post.

      Foreign investment is supposedly reduced “due to a dramatic plunge in national pride” – does not compute. You seem to miss the separation between “foreign” and “national”.

      Then you claim that “the Scottish Government – by design – controls almost none of Scotland’s meaningful economic levers.” Which is strange since the Scottish Government itself, in its last manifesto, promised “At the heart of the economic agenda of a re-elected SNP government will be a focus on transforming our productivity as a country” Unless the SNP was trying to con the electorate, then your statement becomes less than factual.

    53. Nothing changes. Fraser, Baillie, Rennie, and an unelected Lord spout shite and an obliging Daily Blah prints their shite.
      They are the enemies of Scotland, who unrelentingly lie about the country of their birth, and quite frankly, are grubby little Tory trash, paid to belittle, lie about, and attempt to destroy Scotland and its future.
      Not one of the wasters mentioned in this article has contributed anything to the civic social or economic life of Scotland. The opposite in fact: they are there to do down Scotland, and make the citizens of this country suffer and starve on instructions from their bosses in England.
      They are beneath contempt. As for the ‘paper that prints this shite. How do you look your children in the eye at night?
      We are taking our country back. There will be no place for fat wee lazy fucks who sit for decades filling in expenses forms and devouring subsidised meals and announcing to the world that Scotland is SHITE. Shame on you.

      Scotland deserves better than this third rate grubby sweaty evil little rabble.

      Nicola Sturgeon has had an extremely successful and profitable visit to the US. The video links are online so Ruth Davidson can’t lie about the enormously positive reception that the First Minister of Scotland received.
      The pointless 59 Yoons are a tawdry little joke now.
      Our MSM are beneath contempt for giving this bunch of not very bright puppets air time and column inches.
      Quality journalism? Aye, right. What a way to turn a coin. Paid a fortune to write and broadcast Right Wing Propaganda nonsense with the quite deliberate intention of causing harm to Scotland and the people of Scotland. Are you reading this Ms Burd?
      We have won. We are taking our land back.
      Rant over.

    54. clipper says:

      Chocolass says:
      6 April, 2017 at 3:25 pm
      Still can’t believe the relish with which Jackie Burd announces
      Scotland baaad!
      Must stop watching……

      Then why don’t you???

      I’d wouldn’t be too surprised if it turned out that about half of the viewers helping to keep their viewer numbers up are masochistic wingers and yessers.

      A disquieting thing emerged on the last thread in which someone said that bbc plant Blair Jenkins is to head up indyref2 for Yes, or is being considered for it.


      They’d better not even think about it.

    55. silver19 says:

      OT: On bbc news site “Barack Obama to visit Edinburgh”, No doubt the indyref2 question will popup and I wonder what Obama will say this time, After the last time Cameron got Obama to say it was all bad and forget it.

    56. Artyhetty says:

      I watched Nicola Sturgeon’s speech and Q & A at the UN. Very very impressive.

      Can anyone see a T.Mayhem talking with such eloquence and intelligence in front of an international audience. Er no she is more interested in chocolate eggs and does not possess either the desire or ability to talk about serious subjects, like world peace, and the role that women should and can have in world politics.

      The geezer from ‘UN security’? Why did he get to ask a question at all? He is security, on what level? A security guard?

      We can be sure that beardy mundelly, will be given a high profile while swanning about the globe, where no one will have a teensy weensy scoobie, who the bloody hell he is, nevermind want anything to do with him, or take anything he says seriously.

      I mean, his is a minor role, in terms of Scottish politics, no matter how the yoons like to make him out to be otherwise.

    57. Karmanut says:

      Nail. Hit. On. Head. We live in this strange political cyclic limbo, wherein opposition parties exist only to spew a cavalcade of lies designed to divert blame away from those causing Scotland’s problems in order to make sure those problems continue, and can act as fuel for the lies.

    58. I have calmed down now.
      I watched our First Minister of Scotland’s speeches and Q&A Sessions at Stanford University and the UN earlier today.
      Her speeches on Scotland, its future as a ‘Good Global Citizen’, and the Scottish People’s position on women’s Rights and Equality were quite frankly inspiring, and speaker after speaker during Q&A congratulated her on her truly inspiring speeches.
      I have seldom felt so proud of one of our own speaking for Scotland to the world.
      I contrast this with the poison emanating from third rate agitators Rennie Baillie and Fraser, and the mean spirited reporting of Scotland oozing like pus from our MSM, unrelentingly, diurnally, remorselessly, and deliberately misleading at best, downright lies at worst.
      I am sure that the vast majority of my fellow Scots citizens are sick fed up to the back teeth hearing that we are a financial basket case, that our NHS is reaching breaking point, that our Police Force is about to collapse in chaotic disarray, and that the ‘vast majority of the people of Britain’ voted to commit political suicide and leave the EU.
      I have nothing but utter contempt for the Pointless 59, who see their job as a destructive mechanism, to bring down the hated EssEnnPee, and care not one whit the damage that they do to Scotland, and the people of this incredible nation of ours.
      Roll on the LA elections in May.

    59. orri says:

      Sturgeon is out there securing promises of inward investment. The unionist parties follow at her heals wrecking them. Isn’t that how protection rackets go? Unless the SNP agree to the pretence of a unified UK in order that we be sold down the river then the unionists will continue their reckless wrecking.

      Or, as with oil, there comes a point where the minor damage their political suppression has on the UK economy as a whole starts becoming major and they are forced to admit things aren’t as gloomy as they make out.

      The problem they’ve got is nobody in Scotland really swallowed the line they put on the SNP assessment that it was a once in a generation opportunity. Something Westminster arrogance allowed themselves to believe.

      Perhaps their problem is that they are true trusting of their minions and the hype that surrounds them. One of the likely reasons Ruth Davidson was as snide was May parachuting in to lay down the law just before the re-scheduled vote in parliament. A discussion that Sturgeon promptly relayed to Holyrood which Davidson took umbrage to being revealed.

      Message for Davidson, the way S30 works is that changes in the competences of Holyrood are made through Orders in Council. One of the members of the Privy Council is Nicola Sturgeon. Her “day job” actually does consist of deciding whether Holyrood should or should not have the ability to hold a constitutionally binding referendum or not.

      Her other day job is representing Holyrood as First Minister. If May wanted a meeting under some form of Privy Seal then she really should have made that clear.

    60. dakk says:

      ‘the Scottish Government itself, in its last manifesto, promised “At the heart of the economic agenda of a re-elected SNP government will be a focus on transforming our productivity as a country” Unless the SNP was trying to con the electorate, then your statement becomes less than factual.’


      Although the vast majority of economic powers are reserved by Westminster,it doesn’t mean the Scottish Government can’t ‘focus’ on trying to improve and invest in certain aspects of our economy despite not being invested with the requisite monetary and fiscal powers.

      Much the same way the SNP Government alleviate some of the socially destructive Welfare policies of Westminster despite Welfare being a reserved matter.

    61. Brian Powell says:

      Ah, so Obama is visiting Edinburgh but not speaking to ordinary people. If he simply parrots what the Unionists tell him then his standing will dive-bomb.

    62. Jack Murphy says:

      Jack Collatin said at 3:56pm:
      “……..Scotland deserves better than this third rate grubby sweaty evil little rabble………”

      Remember this warning?
      Labour in Scotland said in April 2014 that Scottish Independence would be “CATACLYSMIC” FOR THE WORLD! 🙁

      Labour Baron George Robertson of Somewhere or Other.

    63. manandboy says:

      The longer I go without watching TV, the more the quality of my life increases.

      I no longer have a mind which is remotely influenced by the Tories through all the subliminal ideas that once were planted in my head while watching the BBC (British Brainwashing Corporation).

      No longer do the liars who work as news presenters get free access to my living room to tell me a pack of lies, unopposed and without any right of reply from me.

      I think back with embarrassment to the days when I was one of those who, when confronted by the truth, said, ‘That can’t be true, I would have heard it on the news’, or like the football club owner who said ‘I only know what I read in the papers’.

      I’m reminded of the Live Aid concert at Wembley, 13th July, 1985, and the huge screens on either side of the stage proclaiming the really important message of the event – not Feed the World – but WATCH MORE TV.

      Did we feed the world? No.
      Are we watching more TV? Yes.

      Ever since, if not before, watching TV has become far more important to most people, than feeding the starving children of the world.

      This Tory government of wealthy elites is far more concerned with spreading their propaganda on TV than caring for the hungry poor, even when their names and addresses are stored on the computers at the Department of Work and Pensions.

      You wanna really do something concrete to hit back at the Elite Establishment and the BBC, Scotland’s public enemy No.1, then cancel your tv licence, give up the telly, donate some of the cash to the poor, support Independence news providers, and you will find you have got your life back from the BBC and the Unionist Establishment.

      Only fear is stopping you – from enjoying rich rewards.

    64. Brian Powell says:

      The frantic drive to damage a Yes vote misses a huge point, especially important to Slab and the LibDems, none of the Yes movement and its energy ‘belongs’ to those parties.

    65. heedtracker says:

      Dr ScottThinks follows UKOK through. Ultra yoons like Dr NO! would be raging at us how great this farce union really is, if Scots economy was outperfoming England’s, so its a bit pointless arguing with them really.

      Scott Arthur? @DrScottThinks 4h4 hours ago
      The SNP are still unable to concede that their #Brexit scaremongering & #indyref2 threats are fuelling the economic slowdown in Scotland.

    66. Dr Jim says:

      The FM should be at home doing the dishes and cooking for Peter, keeping her house clean, that sort of thing, what women are supposed to be doing for God sake instead of swanning off around the place interfering in mens work
      She should follow Miss Dugdales lead get a few pictures with some cardboard cutouts on holidays with some of her Gal Pals, let down her hair a little, but for goodness sake she needs to get back home and grow up and get these political ideas out of her pretty little head

      Silly girl

    67. heedtracker says:

      Easter Ligger also going BBC mental with today’s triumph of British economics in Scotland, or failure of Scottish economics in Britain etc. He’s certainly having the time of his easter hols with it all, is old Ligger.

      Andrew Neil?Verified account @afneil Apr 5
      Scottish economy contracted Oct-Dec 2016 by -0.2% while UK grew +0.7%.
      In 2016 Scottish GDP grew 0.4%. UK grew by 1.8%.

    68. liz says:

      Of course the BritNts and the BBC know exactly whats going on but they’re determined to destroy Scotland’s economy.

      We must get away from this toxic union it’s poisonous

    69. Dr Jim says:

      Ooh! forgot to mention Nicola Sturgeon First Minister of Scotland being wooed for Secretary General of the United Nations job

      Looks like the rest of the world takes Nicola Sturgeon more seriously than her own country

      Yer never a prophet eh!

    70. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just a wee heads up folks.

      I know we are all sick to the back teeth of brain deid unionists moaning about Nicola Sturgeon “not” getting on with the day job well be prepared for more shite coming from them next month.

      I think it was only last week that Nicola signed an agreement with the Prime Minister, or someone else, from the Bavarian government in Edinburgh.

    71. yesindyref2 says:

      @ Phil Robertson says: “You really do perform a full range of contradictions in this post.

      No he doesn’t.

      Foreign investment is supposedly reduced “due to a dramatic plunge in national pride” – does not compute. You seem to miss the separation between “foreign” and “national”.

      The two are related you know. I leave it to you to explore how, I’m sure you’re capable of it.

      Then you claim that “the Scottish Government – by design – controls almost none of Scotland’s meaningful economic levers.”

      Yes, this is a correct claim. Write down a list of economic levers, then put against them who control them – Westminster or Holyrood. Start with currency, QE, borrowing, overall UK budget (i.e. the dreaded austerity) and keep going …

      Which is strange since the Scottish Government itself, in its last manifesto, promised “At the heart of the economic agenda of a re-elected SNP government will be a focus on transforming our productivity as a country”

      Good, the Scottish Government is working – as Rev implied – within its limited exonomic levers. Like Investment DEL, the SDI, Sturgeon visting the US to promote investment and trade.

      Unless the SNP was trying to con the electorate, then your statement becomes less than factual.

      Unless you’re trying to con the reader, then your statement becomess less than factual. In fact it’s total mince.

    72. Macart says:

      The brutal truth is that picture can only get worse so long as our macroeconomic policy is set elsewhere.

      ALL of the devolved legislatures can only offset, mitigate or delay. They cannot prevent or reverse the effects of austerity ideology or the economic clusterfuck that is Brexit.

      As budgets decrease, as cuts are made to services and benefits, as wages freeze or decrease , so the pain and hardship will increase exponentially.

      Pooling and sharing… etc.

      When you place your assets, resources and economic levers in the hands of another, don’t be stunned when they use same to pool and share as ‘they’ see fit.

      Don’t be stunned when the decisions they make on your behalf, based on agendas you didn’t vote for, or mandate work counter to your interests or needs.

      The reality of better togetherness is that there is very little any devolved government can do to protect the electorate from what is currently occurring.

      If we choose to remain in this political ‘partnership’ be prepared to ‘share’ a lot more of the consequences of those decisions and be prepared for a LOT more economic hardship.

      Remember, mitigate and offset is NOT prevent or reverse.

    73. Proud Cybernat says:

      Yo Robertson – how the fuck can you be so fucking stupid to believe all that BritNat propaganda?? Are you mental or what? Anyone with an ounce of grey matter betwixt their lugs can see what utter, UTTER pish it all is.

      Unless, of course, you’re just a BritNat propagandist yourself. Would make more sense to be honest.


    74. Lochside says:

      Last night’s wee cosy tete a tete with Big Byrd and Douglas Fraser on BBC Jockistan regarding ‘Scotland’s economy heading towards recession because it was apparently 3/4% less than the Motherland was as rehearsed as anything I’ve seen since the last stage managed propaganda sketch of ‘let’s call it Devo Max’

      As soon as Fraser…with a straight face had listed the probable reasons. .if any.. such as the oil ‘collapse ‘ know the one where the UK allowed the oil corporations tax breaks to give money to shareholders and not pay tax..I could see clearly the punchline coming a mile off.

      Apparently ‘Business ‘ is suffering ‘uncertainty’ (of course) over Brexshit..but what all the suits are really shiteing themselves over is REf2.I knew then that the papers would have it wall to wall today.

      Black farce doesnae cover it. NS is wooing the yanks and the UN so lets dig up the most ludicrous bullshit that we can to bury her and frighten the Yesbuts.I remember thinking that when Dugdale was over in the Us of A failing her audition for the Henry Jackson society that is Nicola did anything similar she would be crucified….I know.. crystal balls not required…just big fucking brass media necks.

    75. Jimmy the Pict says:

      the BBC website cannot even get the correct information on who can vote on their main local election website (as well as not mentioning any SNP sitting councillor numbers)

      They have it as 18 years old, no mention of 16+ in Scotland

    76. Breeks says:

      Scotland is the only country I know that doesn’t have a puppet government, but a puppet opposition. Political discourse is largely parochial or a toothless placebo. We fumble with REAL power like we don’t know what to do with it, and kid on that Westminster actually waits upon our verdict. The Sewell Convention pricked that particular bubble.

      The genuine balance of power in Scotland, (and then, only since SNP government), is between Holyrood and Westminster, but even that battle is mostly manifest by proxy, in Holyrood continually sparring with BBC and the mainstream press. A contest the BBC usually wins, or at least, has the last word. SNPbad. Changing? Hmmm. Jury is out, but the runes say no.

      There is great deal of “idle mass” in Scottish politics which is there artificially, it is just stodge, inconsequential filler, and it is largely sustained by the continual feed of undue credibility it is afforded by the Unionist media. For example, how few votes does it take before the Lib Dems DON’T get a seat on a Scottish debate? How many votes does it take before Scotland’s First Minister DOES get a podium in a UK Leaders debate? If the Lib Dems chose a Shetland pony as leader, would he still get prime time exposure on TV? Dress it up as bias, weighting, asymmetry, call it what you want, it isn’t right and it is a distortion which belittles Scotland’s voice.

      Once Scotland is Independent, all of this idle mass, this effective UK centred “Anglicisation” of Scotland’s political landscape, will not only be idle but thoroughly redundant. We will no longer care what London says or does to any greater or lesser extent than we might care about happens in Paris, Dublin or Madrid. The vacuum it leaves behind will very quickly be filled by Scottish dimension politics, which frankly will bore the BBC silly, and very soon we will hopefully be rid of that sad and interfering encumbrance too.

      All this guff, GERS, Scotland’s big black deficit, OBR, the pooling, the sharing, the best of both worlds, currency, the pound, NATO, UKIP, Trident,… Its ALL British guff. After Indy, it all goes to the jumble sale. Everything. I’ve got the boxes in garage ready for the day. The BBC, the UK imperialist rags that beat the drum for xenophobia and intolerance, the never ending call to arms to punch some country above our weight, it all becomes somebody else’s news story, NOT the story of Scotland. Dunno how you feel about it, but to me that feels like a blessed deliverance.

      We’ll have news about OUR country. Our renewables. Our economy. Our place in Europe. It won’t be skewed to give the British perspective, and our newspapers won’t be doctored to flatter regional sensibilities or promote the national agenda of any other country. I don’t want reminded of Napoleon whenever France is mentioned, or Hitler if it’s Germany. These are YOUR prejudices and stereotypes BBC, they’re not mine. They never were. I don’t have the link to hand, but if I did, I’d point you to the “News Where You Are poem”… inspired, excellent stuff that hits the nail on the head.

      Our new Scotland might have a Labour Party, even a Tory party, but they will be nothing like the headless corpses we have at the moment; puppet opposition parties shored up by a contrived sense of brass band Britishness which no Englishman would even recognise, all the time masquerading as political balance. It’s not balance at all. It’s the British agenda that we are meant to respect as gospel; the doctrine we are dutifully meant to follow.

      Enough of this. The road ahead is clear. Out with the old and in with the new. Out of the darkness and into the light. Bring it on.

    77. heedtracker says:

      Easter Ligger’s having fun with us. How do you go about “sorting out the deficit,” in the UK zone, anywhere in it, even the Treasury’s got all the power?

      Austerity tory style has only made the rich richer, everyone else poorer, euthanised a lot of the really sick and skint, as the debt and deficit get bigger. Wonder why Easter Ligger never asks that, of any tory, its just Scots that get Liggered. BBC tory propaganda is pretty gross.

      Andrew Neil?Verified account @afneil Apr 5
      Andrew Neil Retweeted szikratigris
      I get it. And who knows what wonders iScot could achieve? Meantime, how would you go about sorting out the deficit and currency?

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      As a little interesting point is this from page 13 of the GDP Q4 2016 –

      A change to the chainlinking methodology used to calculate growth in GDP, in line with an upcoming development being implemented by ONS to comply with international best practice. Further information on this development can be found on the ONS website.

      Probably won’t make much difference to this, though there are some projections UK-wide on page 3 of this

      but basically it’s the delayed implementation of ESA2010 which may or may not make a difference to accuracy of statistics, and hence the next publication of GERS.

    79. sarah says:

      @Breeks 5.19 Very well said.

    80. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Phil Robertson,

      And what of Brexit, dear BritNat propagandist? It will shortly plunge the whole of the UK into the deepest doo-doo and none of it will be any fault of the SNP, will it? Try as you may to deflect and distract.

      I feel truly sorry for English people like you, who have (thus far) bought into this fairy-tale of nonexistent go-it-alone prosperity in an increasingly isolationist world. Blame everyone except the real villain of the piece, a managerially incompetent and increasingly dogma-driven Tory UKGov. But the truth is slowly getting through up here despite the futile efforts of people like you to turn the tide, and we are getting out of your beloved shithole of a woefully mismanaged economy.

      The more you point out its defects here, the more you prove our point.

      Scotland is going to be independent very soon. Try to get used to it.

    81. pool9 says:

      As usual assorted unionist politicians try to blame the SNP for an economic downturn that unionist policies have created.

      There might be more economic activity if renewable subsidies had not been axed.

      If certain frigates were being built on the Clyde.

      If civil service jobs stayed in Scotland.

      If Westminster’s tax policy in the North Sea had been something other than a deliberate attempt to show how little money an independent Scotland could possibly make from those same resources.

      If Westminster promoted Scotland as a place to invest in. Maybe if Scotland rebranded itself as “London”, it would get some love.

      As it is Scotland has been ignored and neglected, if not malignantly mistreated by Westminster for my entire lifetime, but especially since September 2014, so I’m unsurprised at economic activity being down. (Of course, we have to make sure the statistics are trustworthy.) The Scottish Government, with its limited powers, can only do so much to ameliorate the damage being inflicted by the honourable members in Westminster.

      Our Unionist friends forget that Westminster refused to give the Scottish Parliament control of fiscal policy. Indeed some unionists guffawed that they had set a ‘trap’ for the SNP by yielding the ability to raise income tax alone, while not mentioning that if the Scottish Parliament did that, the likelihood would be that the following year’s Barnett allocation would be smaller by the precise amount of revenue raised by any income tax increase as Scotland was raising more of its own money, so would need less of the “subsidy”, sorry, block grant from Westminster. So messing with income tax is self-defeating for the Scottish parliament. (I’m happy to be corrected on my understanding of this, by the way.) Scotland would end up with no extra funding, just a higher tax burden the unionists could blame on the SNP in an attempt to gain political advantage.

      Yet still they try to pin the blame on the SNP for am economy that they, the unionists and Westminster establishment control.

      It is insane.

      And only because of the blanket media coverage in their favour can they hope to get away with these outrageous lies.

      Nobody in the mainstream media asks them how the SNP can fix Scotland’s economy when Westminster controls almost all aspects of fiscal policy in Scotland. And refuses to give any of those powers over. After promising the world during indyref. The clunking fist’s other hand was behind his back with its fingers crossed.

      I suspect our economy is deliberately hamstrung so unionist politicians can play political games and blame the SNP as Scotland’s poor and vulnerable struggle.

      They imagine this will turn the people of Scotland away from the SNP.

      And it might, much as I wish it were otherwise, if the blanket of favourable media coverage cannot be pierced.

      I hope that the incompetence of the unionist parties will be their undoing, that the evidence of their cynical disregard for the people they are elected to represent, and whose welfare they are supposed to maintain, will be revealed by their own failures. That essentially they will not be able to hide the wrecks of humanity they really are any longer. It happened to Labour in Scotland, but like a zombie, they persist. The council elections will hopefully be another limb cut from that rotting corpse, another blow to their non-existent credibility. Yet still the media will entertain them.

      But until the moral vacuum of the unionist side finally reveals itself, can be hidden no longer despite the oceans of whitewash deployed in their favour, then this site and others are vital to keep the truth alive.

      Keep up the good work, everyone.

    82. call me dave says:


      Sarah beat me to it there . Bravo!

    83. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland eh, the only country in the world where half it’s population pray for their own downfall rejoicing in failure as a success to prove they’re right

      Nobody can tell me Yoons are normal people like other folk in the world

    84. pool9 says:

      Breeks @5.19 – excellent. Macart @ 5.09 – seconded.

    85. heedtracker says:

      Welcome to Scotland, only country in the world to strike oil and end up bankrupt, or if not bankrupt, even more of a basket case than what Greece is meant to be.

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      A major component of GDP is the public sector. With its austerity policy the UK automatically cuts the GDP when it cuts the public sector, and hopes that other sectors take up the slack. Across the UK that is possible, but it comes down to what works for the whole UK does not work for all its regions inclusing Scotland, and probably Wales, NI and the North-East of England (as usual). Over that the SG has no control.

      But a component of that public sector GDP is council spending, so if a council cuts services while increasing reserves, that also adversely affects GDP. Council spending in itself is also not under the control of the SG – it’s devolved!

      Yes, also as pool9 says, there’s the tax office jobs, moved down to Croydon. There’s the T26 not being built yet, which has meant that half the Clyde shipworkers are down in Barrow adding to England’s GDP and subtracting from Scotland’s. I think there’s army units not yet back from Germany. And even bank branch closuers decrease the GDp. All these things add up. Add to that a lack of consumer confidence which is lower in Scotland, and then of course the biggie – oil – and it’s a wonder the figures aren’t far worse.

      But here’s a thing. The tax office jobs can’t move twice to Croydon. The oil industry is actually starting to ahve a shortage of employees after it’s leaned itself right off, so it’s hopefully unlikely there’ll be much firther job losses. The oil industry uses the service secotr, so cuts there are hopefully nearing or at the botttom now.

      So in theory it should be onwards and upwards. And just think what it could be like if the SG had all those levers and used them for the sole benefit of Scotland.

      Vote YES!

    87. galamcennalath says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      how the fuck can you be so fucking stupid to believe all that BritNat propaganda?

      Indeed. But many ordinary Unionists (Tories in particular) do.

      When manning our local SNP stall it never ceases to amaze me what some people come up and say. It’s like they are reading it from a crib sheet. In one day several will say exactly the same things, only the order changes! If you counter one statement/question, they don’t reply to that, they just bring up another.

      To coin two granny phrases, “stuck gramophone record” and “in one ear and out the other”.

      I could list their fake points but in some ways that means nothing. The important thing is a few dozen key points are widely believed because they keep hearing them from different sources over and over. As they say, repeat a lie often enough and people begin to believe it.

      I am now convinced about a third of Scots are ‘lost’. Their brains so washed with nonsense they will never see the truth. Fortunately, I am convinced, there are enough with open minds to get a Yes majority.

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      Don’t give up on any of them (well, maybe Phil).

      I see more sensible “unionist” posters starting to think. And they’re active ones as well. I think they’re looking at the material churned out by the likes of Fraser Murdo and thinking “WTF”.

    89. Goodness me, when you think what a half decent journalist could do to these unionist parties politicians.

    90. Peter S says:

      It’s important to remember that this is happening on the Westminster Tory Government’s watch whilst Scotland is part of the UK. So perhaps the unionists should bear this in mind and apportion some of the blame to Westminster (but I’ve folding money that says they won’t !)

    91. Croompenstein says:

      @pool9 @5:35

      Excellent post pool9, copied for future reference.. brilliant

    92. yesindyref2 says:

      @James Caithness
      My theory is that whenever they get quoted in papers, or given time to “speak” on TV, they happily do it to themselves. And I think more and more people are seeing that 😎

    93. Ian says:

      Using GDP PPP (US$) as a comparative measure, the gap between the UK and the average of our four European neighbour countries (Germany, Sweden, Netherlands & Denmark) in 1990 was US$ 5,230. By 2014 the gap had increased to US$ 6,167. So in 2014 the average figure for our four European neighbours was US$ 44,167 while the UK was at US$ 38,000. Quite a gap and one that has, according to these figures, existed since at least 1990 and widened significantly since 2010.

      Being consistently bad isn’t much of a selling point for the union. Maybe they should have found out what their day job was really about and cut out the spin and hot air.

    94. Rock says:

      “It’s a real mystery why they don’t get more votes.”

      Unfortunately, they still manage to get more or less 50%.

      What sort of people vote for them?

      In my humble opinion, the vast majority of the selfish middle classes, the British Nationalist elderly and the English.

    95. yesindyref2 says:

      “In my humble opinion, the vast majority of the selfish middle classes, the British Nationalist elderly and the English.”

      Oh here we go again, next it’ll be The National and Peffers.

    96. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      Don’t give up on any of them

      Yea, yea. People are never absolutes. Every Scot has the potential to put Scotland first.

      However shall we put it this way …. some nuts are much harder to crack than others 🙂

    97. stewartb says:

      Just had a look at the press release from the Scottish Chambers of Commerce following the economic growth figures ( ). The CEO’s statement includes this: “The news that Scotland’s economy is contracting at a time when the OVERALL UK ECONOMY IS GROWING HEALTHILY …….” (my emphasis).

      Someone should tell her counterpart in the British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) about this “growing healthily” view.

      The head of the BCC states (at ) notes: “The improved growth forecast for 2017 is driven primarily by stronger than expected HOUSEHOLD CONSUMPTION (my emphasis) and ONS revisions to Q4 GDP data.” And goes on to state: “… with several years of unspectacular growth ahead (for the UK), coupled with inflationary pressures and the uncertain outcome of Brexit negotiations, it has never been more important to tackle the long-standing constraints that limit business confidence and growth here at home.”

      The CEO of the Scottish Chambers complains about the Scottish Government imposing costs on businesses and urges an “urgent change in policy from the Scottish Government IN PARTICULAR.” And then states: “It is time for the Scottish Government to abandon this high tax agenda before it is too late.”

      But it is notable that the British Chambers is complaining about the UK government imposing costs ( ). The BCC states: “We enter a new tax year with a raft of changes adding to the upfront cost of doing business. While corporation tax is decreasing, companies are more concerned about the escalating burden of input costs which hit firms before they even turn over a single pound.” And goes on: “Companies of all sizes will now see the introduction of the Apprenticeship Levy, Immigration Skills Charge, a new National Living Wage, and pensions auto-enrolment. Such costs are likely to cause many firms to implement cost reduction measures and weigh down on firms’ ability to invest, recruit and grow their business.”

      How much of a change in SG policy would be required just to mitigate UK government policies listed in the BCC statement? The Scottish Chambers’ statement urging change on the SG offers us no analysis or insight.

      Candidly, the credibility of the Scottish Chambers’ statement was lost for me when it sought to link the performance of the Scottish economy to “Scottish higher rate taxpayers pay(ing) more tax than they would anywhere else in the UK.” So trickle down economic theory is still alive and well – and ‘threatened’ even when the tax differential is, in any event, minimal?

      And more on this UK “growing healthily” theme, recent headlines from the Financial Times offer a flavour of the status of the UK economy ( ) include e.g.:

      “UK’s dismal productivity is the biggest challenge”?
      “UK household saving rates hit record lows in 2016”?
      “UK consumer borrowing shows steady rise”
      “Food and fuel push UK inflation to 3-year high”.

      Notably, the Scottish Chambers’ own quarterly economic outlook survey published in January 2017 ( ) revealed both optimism and growth in certain key sectors in Scotland (e.g. financial services, manufacturing, retail ) as well as industry concerns (e.g. in construction – due to Brexit uncertainty, and tourism).

      So given all of this taken together, is it too much to expect this ‘premier’ business organisation in Scotland to provide some perspective – some deeper analysis and insight – rather than what seems to be a ‘knee jerk’ press statement?

    98. Rock says:

      yesindyref2, do you have any idea what sort of people make up the 50% who vote for the unionists?

      Alternative points of view are always welcome on this site.

    99. heedtracker says:

      In my humble opinion, the vast majority of the selfish middle classes, the British Nationalist elderly and the English.

      You’re humble Rock?

      Almost deafening vote NO hysteria BBC Scotland style aside Rock, people may well have taken on board all that pretty terrifying Project Fear rage and thought ok, I’ll be voting NO for devo-max, federal UK, EU passports, must be true, it was all over the BBC, Gordon Brown, the Queen, Lord Flipper, Daily Record, Stinky old Graun etc, why would they lie about how great it is to still British, for ever and ever but with devo max?

      YEt here we are Rock. Out of the EU, devo max was all bollocjs and exact same UKOK BBC led freak show haven’t exactly eased of their relentless Project Fearing either.

    100. yesindyref2 says:

      “do you have any idea what sort of people make up the 50%”

      Yeah, people, real people, genuine people, people who don’t pretend to be what they’re not to try to stir up division.

    101. Macart says:

      As many good posts have alluded to already, what we’re seeing IS the point of the unionist parties.

      When in opposition criticism with neither responsibility or alternate policy to hand. In short? Meek, blind, conformist acceptance. In their eyes, the role of the parish council is to offset and mitigate the policies of central government for ‘their’ greater good.

      Not service to the public. Not protection of the Scottish electorate’s interests, our assets, our rights or our democracy. Simply use ‘gifted’ powers in a ‘gifted’ parliament to what end? Find new and interesting ways of conning the electorate into thinking they have some control over their lives.

      Lord Keen in his address to the Supreme Court blew this myth out of the water in December. The Scotland bill settlement and the Sewel convention is and always has been a sham.

      Upthread earlier I linked directly to the Scottish parliament’s web site and the page which details the competences of our legislature. I would recommend any reader visits this page and looks at the reality for themselves.

      If people are still left in any doubt about the nature of devolution or devolved legislature, I give you the words of Jack Straw.

      “English MPs control all the money which Scotland receives – is that ‘fair’? England constitutes 85% of the UK’s population and 87% of its wealth. It was English MPs who agreed to devolve some powers to Scotland in a Westminster Act of Parliament; but year by year controls over public spending levels for all of the UK continue to be exercised by Westminster. And power devolved is power retained, not ceded.“

      All of the major powers which could effect serious change on our economy are retained by Westminster.

      Hopefully, in the very near future, you’ll get a chance to decide whether those powers remain in the hands of those who’ve done such a bang up job so far.

    102. yesindyref2 says:

      I have a theory that people who aren’t fussed can be against but quite mild. Then they get really against and get angry – and active. Then they lose track of the whole thing and get really angry, kind of like just about all Tories in Holyrood. Then they start changing their mind and go into a total oblivious mouth-frothing rage. Then they vote YES.

      I like my theory 😎

    103. Graeme Doig says:

      Nicely written Rev. That’s exactly what you get paid the big bucks for 😉

    104. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT But I hope we are all thrilled that one who interfered in our Independence referendum and with the EU referendum is coming to raise funds for his fund and other charities by speaking at a 5,000 pound per table of ten , charity dinner.

      I would be quite happy for him and all the other guests to stay home and donate 5,000 quid to charity.

      OK so he has a nice smile – but really , what else has he done other than NOT close Guantanamo and drone a load of innocents?

    105. galamcennalath says:

      This humorous (but with much truth) article could have been written with NO voters and their Union in mind.

      ” The reasons for going ahead with Brexit are vanishing faster than Nigel Farage’s post-referendum moustache. And as such, the dedicated people who thought they were voting for a better NHS, reduced immigration, and having our cake and eating it are having to reframe the issue in their minds. They’re having to take something they thought was a rational choice and turn it into something they believe in.”

    106. Kennedy says:

      Lots of good posts tonight.

      Lots of passion.

    107. Rock says:


      Bob Mack,

      “Did anyone else hear Nicola state that Westminster supremacy over scotland has never been challenged in court ?

      Our own Robert Peffers may well have been right all along. I wonder if Westminster has the belly for a court case about sovereign rights because that is definitely what Nicola was hinting at.”


      Does Scotland have the belly for a court case about sovereign rights?


      “Nicola Sturgeon has no plans to take court action if Westminster refuses permission to hold a second independence referendum”.

      As I have pointed out many times, the pretendy “sovereignty” of the Scots is not worth the paper it was written on.

      Anyone who thinks otherwise should put their money where their mouths are and take the matter to a “pretendy” Scottish court.

      “Lawyers for Yes” will be with you all the way.

    108. Robert Peffers says:

      @maureen says: 6 April, 2017 at 2:43 pm:

      ” … I can get twitter no bother but not wings over scotland. Don’t know why I can get twitter but not wings. I can get both on kindle, desktop, but not my actual mobile.”

      Hi, Maureen, You wouldn’t, by any chance, have BT as your ISP? I suddenly found my line-speed had dropped from around 1.4Mbps to as low as 24Kbps but the worst loss was always on Wings. I ran several line speed-tests and then Traceroutes and found one particular BT server was either very, very slow or timed out. Always the same BT link in the chain to Wings.

      Anyway, I was in the process of going for a fibre line and ditching BT as I have hearing problems and could not carry out phone conversations with BT’s Indian Call Centre staff. I opted for Vodafone as they have a Vodafone call centre in Glenrothes that I can pop into if I get trouble.

      Thing is if my line to wings could be strangled by a distant BT server everyone who had that in their path to Rev Stu’s server will also have a poor connection.

    109. Rock says:


      “Yeah, people, real people, genuine people, people who don’t pretend to be what they’re not to try to stir up division.”

      Your description of the sort of people who vote No and who vote for the unionists?

      You must be one of them.

    110. yesindyref2 says:

      “YESTERDAY, all my troubles seemed so far away.
      Now it looks as though they’re here to stay.
      Oh, I believe in, yesterday.

      Suddenly, I’m not half the man I used to be.
      There’s a shadow hanging over me.
      Oh, yesterday came suddenly.

      Why she had to go, I don’t know, she wouldn’t say.
      I said something wrong, now I long for yesterdayayayay.

      Yesterday, love was such an easy game to play.
      Now I need a place to hide away.
      Oh, I believe in yesterday.”

    111. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Maybe what is needed is to challenge the Unionists far more to put their money where their mouth is – and they are not nearly as short of loose tongues as they are of solutions: if you really believe what you are claiming, why not prove it once and for all by giving the SG full fiscal autonomy, eh? (You know, like you sneakily refused to do with the Smith Commission.) Then there would be no doubt who was truly responsible.

      Or are you still feart, as you always have been, of the truth that will out? That a fair comparison will show up the rUK as an unmitigated fiscal disaster compared to Scotland, just as it always has been?

      I would say to the Rude’s, Kez’s and that other prattling nonentity’s little band of nonentities: put up or shut up.

    112. Cactus says:

      Being economical without the truth.

      Smashin’ stuff, excellent comments.

      Talkin’ about, exploring extended exposure.. wouldn’t it be nice if there was a television channel out there, somewhere, that fancied a shot for a political slot, at running a weekly prime-time review of the Wings internet channel..

      Instead of ‘The Papers’, maybe some TV channel would consider running a program called ‘The Articles.’

      Wings (and other Scotland-friendly website articles) reported upon and the topics of the week discussed, also paying focus to some of the btl Have Your Say debate(s).

      Whaddya say @RT News? Get with the future of today?

      Scotland’s Future is tres topical, watch your ratings saor upwards 🙂

      Max for anchor?

      MSM newspapers are SO yesterday, anyways ALL you get is pictures and print, they can only ever report the past.. GO online for your independent news where you are and instantly YOU get; pictures, print, links, audio, video, real-time btl hys, the world and so much more..

      Go on, have your say of today..

    113. yesindyref2 says:

      “You must be one of them.”

      I’m certainly one of these:

      “Yeah, people, real people, genuine people, people who don’t pretend to be what they’re not to try to stir up division.”

      Now, what’s your positive vision for Independence? Cat got your tongue?

    114. louis.b.argyll says:

      These lyrics are about 45 years old..GULP!

      I am gross and perverted
      I’m obsessed ‘n deranged

      I have existed for years
      But very little has changed

      I’m the tool of the Government
      And industry too

      For I am destined to rule
      And regulate you

      I may be vile and pernicious
      But you can’t look away

      I make you think I’m delicious
      With the stuff that I say

      I’m the best you can get
      Have you guessed me yet?

      I’m the slime oozin’ out
      From your TV set

      You will obey me while I lead you
      And eat the garbage that I feed you

      Until the day that we don’t need you
      Don’t go for help . . . no one will heed you

      Your mind is totally controlled
      It has been stuffed into my mold

      And you will do as you are told
      Until the rights to you are sold

      (c) FZ.

    115. Cactus says:

      Reality check correction / typo:

      “MSM newspapers are SO yesterday, anyways ALL you get is pictures and print, they can only ever report distort the past..”

      Back to you in the studio.

    116. I dipped into Reporting Scotland tonight. Headline and the Yoon slant on the First Minister’s successful visit to the US? Nicola Sturgeon will meet Donald Trump when he visits the UK.That’s the Main Story.
      Then a shot of NS in a wee school gym watching little children dancing. Quick shot of her sitting at UN. Then Glenn Campbell interviewing NS pushing the ‘will you meet Trump?’ angle. The presentation deliberately edited to imply that our FM was on a wee jolly to the States, and would greet Trump when he comes to Britland.
      Nothing about the content of the trip.Just Glenn and Sally’s propaganda porn.
      Then Tom Hunter on Obama’s planned visit. Cue video of Obama with Cameron, and a voice over to remind us that came out against Independence.
      Douglas Fraser sitting with Sally with graphic in the background. Saltire and Union Flag.
      High earners to pay £400 more tax and £240 NI in Scotland than England.They were on a roll.
      They were having a Unionist ball with half truths, and suppressed reporting.
      They are beneath contempt.
      Just to illustrate how shite a country Scotland is they graphically reported from Inverness on the horrendous rape of children and conviction of a paedophile, at 6.43 pm in the evening while young children are about.
      Scotland is crap.
      Job Done ,Sally, and Glenn.

    117. Katie says:

      So Barrack’s coming to Scotland…… Is this coz Gordon Brown already been let out and failed???

    118. yesindyref2 says:

      OK, I’ll stop playing with it sorry. Here’s an interesting one for the GERS fighters from that ONS bulletin:

      10. Quality and methodology
      Important quality issues

      There are common pitfalls in interpreting data series and these include:

      expectations of accuracy and reliability in early estimates are often too high

      revisions are an inevitable consequence of the trade-off between timeliness and accuracy

      early estimates are based on incomplete data

      Very few statistical revisions arise as a result of “errors” in the popular sense of the word. All estimates, by definition, are subject to statistical “error”.

      So basically the estimates are witing statistical confidence levels, but it doesn’t mean the figures are accurate. And that’s from the ONS’s own mouth.

    119. K1 says:

      So Obama is coming over tae Edinburgh in May, in what will his first speaking engagement since the coup election of Trump.

      Now ah know he’s no ‘the’ president but as a former president he still retains this official title. Could we no get a wee petition goin’ for his visit to be turned intae a ‘state’ visit as a satirical and ironic gesture in direct opposition tae the Trump fiasco?

      ‘We the undersigned feel that Preident Obama’s visit to Scotland should be designated as an official visit of a dignatory. It is embarrassing for our First Minister to not have him address our parliament. As such we feel it is imperative that his visit be upgraded and that he be welcomed to Scotland with all the fanfare and publicity that someone of his stature deserves.’

      Now that would be a ‘coup’? (And a girutfloy tae boot). No?


    120. pool9 says:

      Well, tonight a troll’s mask has well and truly slipped.

      I had given it some consideration before.

      Not anymore.

    121. JayR says:

      Finland for Scottish Independence group. looks like rally planned in Finland this summer.

    122. Del says:

      Bread sales in Scotland are down, due to a fall in Mother’s Pride.

    123. yesindyref2 says:

      This – hopefully single quarter – is one where rabid unionists can be hit hard by such statistics as:

      “London and the South-East acccount for 38% of the UK economy”

      “London’s economy grew 50% more than the UK average during 2010-14”

      “Q42016: UK growth +0.7%, Scotland decline -0.2%”

      And the unionists are PROUD of those figures?

    124. ronnie anderson says:

      Obama to visit Scotland for a charity event, anything & anyone is excepted in the name of charity GTF. Obama didn’t do Scotland any favours with his Please Stay intervention.

    125. Dr Jim says:

      Would you join the UK:

      If Scotland wasn’t part of the UK and already an Independent normal country and the UK offered Scotland the chance to join that Union how many people do we think would vote to join it?

      And there’s yer answer

      Every single press and telly “journalist” would be screaming at any country who wanted to join a basket case of mountainous debt like the UK full of ultra right wing extremists for a government, anti immigrant violence on the streets leading to the murder of a politician and the heartless slashing of basic needs maintainance for the disabled and weak, not to mention the prescription charges, the student fees and the complete and utter disregard for any kind of democracy
      And a UK who invests in Saudi Arabia to promote murder not also to mention the shameful way the government of that UK tried to threaten the European Union of 27 countries with violence if the UK didn’t get what they wanted

      OK now hands up, who wants to join up with the UK

      Don’t all rush at once

    126. K1 says:

      Och ah know Ronnie…he wis nudged by Davey boy Cameron. But…freed from constraints of office and the wind shifting in oor direction it could provide good exposure, internationally for Scotland…and anyway it’s clear ah meant it as a joke petition in a reverse satire of the Trump petition 😉

      *mutters tae self, has abdy lost thur humour aw the gether noo*

    127. DerekM says:

      well that headline is the nicest way i have ever seen of calling someone a lying git 🙂

      Nice work Rev.

      Did something happen today i have heard every yoon lie some so bizarre they were killed off in the 70`s.

      Ah right oor Nicola is at the UN and gave their plant a spanking in front of the whole UN(that means the world yoons),so that is why all the wee yoon troglodytes are out.

      My poor boots are ruined from kicking them back in the yoon slime pond i need a Brandy lol

    128. FatCandy says:

      manandboy said at 4.40pm:
      “No longer do the liars who work as news presenters get free access to my living room to tell me a pack of lies, unopposed and without any right of reply from me.”

      It’s not free. We’re paying, under threat of legal action, to give them access to our living rooms.

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      @heedtracker says: 6 April, 2017 at 2:39 pm:

      ” … whatabout that nice English lady that had a weewee on golf course outside Aberdeen?!”

      Ach! Yon? It wis jist a richt auld load o the usual pish!

    130. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s another thing about that UK GDP figure, and it’s a bit unproven. Going back to the 2012 Health Act, part of the debate was that more spending would be needed on the English NHS to change it administratively so that privatisation could occur. This would be a parallel process. So while public spending would increase and hence GDP, so would the private sector also contributing to a rise in GDP.

      So what would be needed to be looked at is the precise spending to see if that hypothesis is correct, and relevant. Clearly though as the administartive changes are made, public spending on the NHS England drops after a time, but it’s likely this hasn’t happened yet.

      About the only saver for UK GDP including England’s GDP is that privatisation is still at a low level, but according to Shirley Williams, the Health Act allows up to 49% privatisation. so that pattern could continue for a few years yet.

      But it’s a relatively artificial nett increase in GDP as the effects of it bite. Scotland of course doesn’t have that as we don’t privatise our NHS – but we do suffer from any resulting drop in English NHS budget via Barnett.

      Same for the relatively small privatisation so far of the English Police forces – and whatever else the greedy Westminster Tories can get their greedy little mitts around to get paid £500,000 for one day’s work a week, while selling off the poor English peoples’ national heritage, bought and paid for by them. Oh, and the MOD want to privatise Faslane security now, and over that we have no control. More of a hit to our GDP to come, no matter how small.

      Vote NO for the piddling and shagging by the few, of the broad arse of the UK.

    131. The whole thing is just contrived horse poo,

      unless somewhere there is a link to how the figures were got at,

      anything to tarnish Nicola who has been enchanting the citizens of America and the whole United Nations on Scotland`s behalf.

      I see the Norwegians have copied Wings and are going to set up a Fact Check service for all the political Fake News stories called `Faktisk`which means actual or real,

      unlike Wings they are getting a million dollar start up,

    132. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Can I get one thing straight

      When we get these notional figures the clever thing to do is not even entertain arguing about them..

      There are a number of more effective responses

      “Yes. It’s terrible isn’t it. We’d better get independent before they completely destroy our economy”

      “So 300 years of union and we’re an economic basket case. Lets get out.”

      “It’s no wonder . We trapped in a UK economy that is virtually bust with £1.7 trillion debt and London is sucking all the economy out of everywhere else to save itself.”

      “Scotland may be struggling a bit but it is doing better than every other region of the UK except London and the South East. The London money factory economy makes the English figures look good.”

      And so on. Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, Norway can be instanced as well.

      Turn the spin against them.

    133. Liam says:

      louis.b.argyll says:
      6 April, 2017 at 7:51 pm

      These lyrics are about 45 years old..GULP!

      Great Googly Moogly!

    134. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      K1 @ 20:33,

      Aye, he wis nudged right enough. And he also wanted the UK to stay in the EU (for reasons of global stability, and he wasn’t wrong about that) but that’s a bust now. Might be interesting to hear how he addresses that unavoidable conundrum. You know, the one that the Unionists are desperately pretending doesn’t exist.

      Now that you’ve raised such notions, I reckon the smart move would be for Nicola to invite him for a wee cup of tea at Bute House. (And not that anonymous downtown motel like wotshername insisted upon.)

      A little pleasantry goes a long way, and would put SG HQ deservedly in the limelight once again. A win-win for both him and us there, I think…

    135. ronnie anderson says:

      K1 Ma post wiznae in reply tae your post at 8.08, ah dont think we should be fawning over politicians past or present, more especially when they speak out against our Country & we certainly dont need a visit from the present incumbent of the US of A.

    136. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 20:46,

      Precisely. That’s my very thought too.

      The economic case is a two-edged sword, and so far it’s only been cutting one way. Time to give the Unionists a taste of their own medicine.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill
      Almost totally agree. With the likes of the stall visitors galamcennalath gets, and I huess ost the NOes I talk to, that’s the perfect exit line if done politely – it might get them thinking if nothing else.

      But there are some who are actually interested in getting at the truth,, they need facts and figures. But probably not yet, I have hopes for the SNP Growth Commission, and if you look at his twitter feed, the main man seems to be happy 🙂

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      “guess most”. Well, I am finally shaking off a bad amd long flu. I hope.

    139. Artyhetty says:

      Wings page has shrunk on my ipad since a few hours ago.

      Dave McEwan Hill@8.46

      Absolutely, that is perfect and it’s also how our SNP, or any pro indy politicians should be framing the argument against the britnat yoons, meme of too poor.

      I hope you don’t mind, I copied it to learn it off by heart, like the bible. LOL. The bible of independence, except it’s fact not fiction!

      Scotland is going to be stuffed again by the union, ah ah ah…Scotland is rich in resources, ah ah ah…Scotland rejects brexit, ah ah ah. Scotland takes a different, positive, 20th century path, ah ah ah. Pray, this Easter, for peace, love and for Scottish independence.

    140. Robert Louis says:

      Well, there was me starting to think The National was actually a good option to read, and then they go and include a piece of political spin (basically rubbish) by a Tory MEP (Ian Duncan).

      Sorry, National, you have just lost a reader. If I want to hear pro London Tory hogwash, and ‘off the record X was said to me’ type rubbish, I can read The Herald, the laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’ or the Torygraph. In fact pretty much ANY newspaper in the UK. I buy the National so I don’t need to read Tory lies.

      The editor of The National should not take us for fools.

    141. DerekM says:

      What Obama is coming hey this is a repeat i have seen this clown show before the aliens are next right or is it wee George with his tales of universal cataclysm.

      I like wee George he is funny though we should really keep him locked up in a padded cell.

    142. Artyhetty says:

      Ah ah ah. That should have been, Scotland takes a 21st century path!

      Talking of which, watching ‘Star Trek Enterprise’ a recent episode said that Ireland became one country again, 23rd century. It can get quite political at times!

    143. mike d says:

      Dr Jim 8.33pm. Oh they yoons will all rush at once,just like lemmings off a cliff,God save our gracious yoonyin.

    144. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Robert Louise@9.17

      Interesting to know that about the National. Yes we need to have a wide spectrum of voices, but the yoons have 100% of the media as a platform, so it’s disappointing that The National is giving a tory a voice. No thanks.

    145. Patrick Roden says:

      I was speaking to a Labour activist on Labour Hame, who name was david, (small d) who tld me he had moved from No in the 1st referendum to a ‘don’t know’ now, because of Brexit.

      Slowly but surely people are wakening up.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Loius (from that article_
      “The last point worth raising, the timing of the Spanish intervention. Making the statement just as the Brexit negotiations begin is pure politics. ”

      Wah, wah, it’s not fair, Spain is being mean to us rightful Conservatives. I want my mummy.

      Kind of funny after he already said this: “As we finished up and the microphone was turned off our conversation turned to Spain. I think it would be fair to say they were not complimentary.”

      Now THERE’s a surprise. Send a gunboat!

      (for the benefit of lurkers it’s not me saying that, it’s pretending it’s the Tory turned Brexiteer guy saying it). Farage would be so proud.

    147. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Robert Louis at 9.17

      The National is a newspaper not a political leaflet. It is pretty important and very useful that it reports what the unionists are saying.

    148. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just a wee note to anyone who’s on The Twitter – if you see any tweets condemning that disgusting ‘Rape Clause’, please RT them and encourage your followers to do likewise.

      The Tories have done some pretty despicable things (even during the lifetime of this place) but this is a special strain of pure nastiness and it must be challenged. Alison Thewliss has shown the way and highlighted it at every opportunity – now it’s time for everyone using social media to ram home the message.

      We can’t and must not accept our own friends, relatives and neighbours being treated like this. Enough is enough.

    149. mike d says:

      Rock 6.24 pm. “The selfish middle classes,the brit nat elderly,the English. You forgot the sectarian orange bigots.

    150. Marco McGinty says:

      “Parliament, incidentally, was NOT in recess during Dugdale’s ill-fated US jaunt. It had in fact just come back from its autumn break when she flew off to help Clinton lose.”

      I think there’s a tiny error in the above comment. Such is Kezia’s complete dedication to abject failure, the part “to help Clinton lose” should be replaced by “to ensure Clinton lost”.

    151. heedtracker says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      6 April, 2017 at 8:43 pm
      @heedtracker says: 6 April, 2017 at 2:39 pm:

      ” … whatabout that nice English lady that had a weewee on golf course outside Aberdeen?!”

      Ach! Yon? It wis jist a richt auld load o the usual pish!

      The great progressive liberal Guardian used that woman caught piddling on a golf course for days, and all the while, Scotland’s First Minister Sturgeon visited the US, spoke at the UN etc, with not a Graun mention.

      If the Guardian could actually physically piss all over Scotland’s fledgling democracy…but we all know just how hard that crew detests Scots like you and me Robert.

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 6 April, 2017 at 5:19 pm:
      ” … If the Lib Dems chose a Shetland pony as leader, would he still get prime time exposure on TV? “


      Ye mean yon wee shilpit bachle, wi yon muckle gyte like grin, isna a Shetlan pownie?

      Whit maun yon maukit, wee craitur be then, Breeks?

      Aiblins ye mich ken fir Ah canna jalousie whit else yon craitur maun be.

    153. Sinky says:

      In case you missed Pete Wishart’s tweet yesterday:

      If ur watching the callous & depressing prog on BBC1 remember the Lab MPs who didn’t vote against the benefits cap on Panorama programme

      The list of 184 included

      Ed Miliband
      Jessica Morden
      Lisa Nandy
      Melanie Onn

    154. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Tomorrow’s National front page:

    155. Breeks says:

      Wee question for you Rock, not acrimonious or accusing, but because I think you have a point;

      Just suppose, like you and me, Nicola Sturgeon did have aspirations to test Scottish Sovereignty in court, but what if the reason she has not so far done so is expressly BECAUSE Joanna Cherry QC, founder of Lawyers for Independence has more expertise and trackside knowledge of how the law actually works, sees a flaw in the case and has advised Nicola to wait? We think it’s cut and dried, but what if it’s not? What if there’s a 5% ot 10% risk of the case floundering? What if everything hung upon the interpretation of a word or phrase which might conceivably be ambiguous and give the Union enough room to wriggle off the hook?

      Suppose too, the case was watertight, proven beyond all doubt; what would you do Rock? Would you hammer a Declaration into every Telegraph pole in Scotland announcing Scottish sovereignty and provoking years if not decades of acrimonious civil disorder and strife from disgruntled Orangemen and Unionists? They’re still obsessed with the Battle of the Boyne and you’d give them a brand new axe to grind all over?

      Maybe Nicola is right. Maybe Nicola recognises the prize that’s sweeter than a technical Independence victory is an Independence the whole country is ready for. Nothing forced upon them, but a bare naked choice between holding on to a collapsing British state, or people, all people, recognising what’s inevitable by themselves and coming to their own conclusions that Independence is the idea who’s time has come?

      For now, that popular, voluntary independence won through consent and persuasion is the best option we can push for because it wins over the doubters and persuades those who are unsure. Don’t you think that’s best Rock? We step off with a United Scotland?

      Yes, I think you’re right. Perhaps we do have a watertight legal case, but just suppose we do. If all roads lead to victory, then where is the harm in taking our time to build an unstoppable consensus anyway, so that Independence is won by popular demand first, and underwritten by the Law on the quiet.

      Maybe Scotland’s constitution is our super weapon of last resort, but victory can still be won without it firing a shot?

      Maybe you’re right Rock. Maybe you’re wrong. But all things considered, for now, I have confidence in Nicola, and decades of SNP machinery and planning working out how to get this right.

      The letter of the law is still there if they screw it up.

    156. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

      Tomorrow’s “National” twitter pages:

    157. North chiel says:

      Some great posts earlier this evening ( especially “Breeks “@ 0519pm), and previous posts
      this afternoon highlighting our FM’ s successful addresses at Standford university & the UN.
      Hopefully our FM will have also have been invited to some lunch and dinner engagements and made some
      new friends during her visits . Don’t reckon that our country’s FM will be having
      any 3 course dinners with the “precious precious” unionist PM or any of our supposed ” other government “leaders any time soon .Yes indeed ” you eat with your friends”.

    158. Cactus says:

      Hey Artyhetty ~

      “Talking of which, watching ‘Star Trek Enterprise’ a recent episode said that Ireland became one country again, 23rd century. It can get quite political at times!”

      Aye, the captain was discussing Ireland upon the bridge of the Enterprise, he was only two centuries out, fair shout.

      Back to the future tonight:

      One Ireland.
      One Scotland.
      One European Union.

      You’re coming with us Ireland.

      Many bridges.. it’s all about them bridges, it’s where good ideas are formed.

      To the Bridge, take it.

    159. Proud Cybernat says:


      Just saw an advert on Youtube there from a group calling themselves B-Heard. They were doing some vox-pops in and around Glasgow city centre, asking folks if there should be a second referendum. Fairly mixed answers. Offices in Glasgow & London. Looks like some marketing outfit. (I smell Nob Orders). They’ve a website bheard[dot]com.

      Anyone know any more about them?

    160. yesindyref2 says:

      Yet more doom and gloom ecomomic news for Scotland:

      Hotel group Marriott International plans to open seven new hotels in Scotland in the next four years.

      “Scotland’s performance in hotel markets is exceptionally strong, with latest figures showing that we are outperforming 11 of the main 12 European hotel markets, including Paris, Madrid and Berlin – only London was higher.”

      Oh dear.

    161. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It’ll soon be Easter, whereupon the ‘Rock’ will, as if by magic, disappear.


    162. yesindyref2 says:

      Second quote was from someone called Sturgeon by the way.

    163. BigAl1264 says:

      What the media (& Rock above) is reporting the FM said: ‘no plans’ for indyref court challenge.

      What the FM actually said: “I don’t think there is any need, nor is there any intention, to see a matter that should be settled politically end up in the courts.”

      These 2 “statements” are not the same thing.

    164. birnie says:

      Scotland’s FM – impressive presentations at Stanford University and at United Nations, now topped by a rave reception at New York’s “Women in the World” conference with repeated applause, where she was interviewed at length and answered with aplomb and directness. No ‘politician speak’, no obfuscation.

      She has done more for Scotland’s standing internationally this week than any of her predecessors, AS included.

      What an asset; what an ambassador!

    165. geeo says:


      “We have a full house tonight….”

      A tory…labour….lib dem….a union guy and a businesswoman….FULL HOUSE !!


    166. gus1940 says:


      That’s all very well but how will our wonderful unbiased media report it if at all?

    167. Ken500 says:

      Andrew Dunlop, unelected wee sneak. Thatcher’s henchman. Says it all. Back to ruin the world economy. The ‘psycho bastards’. Illegally taking £Billions out of Scotland. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. Causing the worse migration crisis in Europe since 11WW and £Trns in debt. Now Brexit.

    168. heedtracker says:

      “Lawyers for Yes” will be with you all the way.

      Rock, Scots Law produced women like Joanna Cherry QC MP and Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh MP

      Graduate of University of Edinburgh (MA) and the University of Strathclyde (LLB & Postgraduate Diploma in Law).

      There isn’t anything about this women that isn’t jawdroppingly awesome, democratic, progressive, in the face of the most ferocious hard core right wing opposition anywhere outside the USA. Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, like so many of her peers dont just sit at home and comment btl, like what we do, they really get stuck in, for Scotland.

      In other words Rock, they’re worth about million times more to Scottish democracy than whatever it is twerps like you think you’re blocking.

      You’re going to lose control of Scotland, Rock types and all the rest of tory gimpery out there. And then once you lose control of Scotland, progressive liberal England will fuck you right off too.

    169. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Serious question –

      Did you know that Blair Jenkins, of Yes-campaign leadership fame, is an OBE?

      I just discovered that, via a comment on Twitter, approx half an hour ago, and I still can’t believe it. Wikipedia appears to confirm it.

      Being honest now…did you know that?

      I didn’t, and I can’t believe I didn’t, after all this time…


    170. Cactus says:

      Maybe it’s time to start up another new list to check off..

      ‘Celebrity I’m a Scot and Voting Yes This Time!’

      I nominate:
      1) Billy Connolly
      2) Archie MacPherson
      3) Big Rab fae Cessnock
      4) Gordon Brown
      5) Lady Bird
      6) Donalda
      7) …

      Get yer cairds oot, bingo’s back.

    171. Robert Peffers says:

      @yesindyref2 says: 6 April, 2017 at 7:46 pm:

      ” … Now, what’s your positive vision for Independence? Cat got your tongue?”

      In an unguarded moment, while distracted by me wee dog, I actually read one of Rock’s posts. I’ve no idea how it later developed because, being aware he was posting, I didn’t read any more of his posts.

      However, it occurred to me that Rock’s idea seemed to be that Nicola was somehow frightened to take the matter of the Scottish people’s sovereignty to a court of law. Quite obviously Rock has no idea how these things get done.

      Why would Nicola want to be the one taking the matter to court? After all she is not the one attempting to prove her claims are wrong. As it is the de facto Parliament of England making the claim that they have absolute sovereignty over Scotland then it is up to them to prove their claims in a court of law.

      Until then the obvious tactic is to go ahead because under Scots law the people are indeed legally sovereign and, as it is in Scotland that the alleged crime is committed, it will have to be Westminster bringing their case to a Scottish court.

      It is thus up to Westminster to take action to prove otherwise and even under English law that will require proof positive that not only does Westminster have sovereignty but how that sovereignty came to be.

      There isn’t a shred of proof anywhere other than Westminster claiming it is so. English Law has a precedent that the English Parliament used to establish that the Sovereignty of the Kingdom of England rested with the kingdom as represented by the Parliament of England in 1688 when the Parliament of England rebelled against their monarch and deposed him.

      As the Kingdom of England at that time was still under the rule of law, “Divine Right Of Kings”, then not only were the English Parliament breaking English Criminal Law but, what was a serious sin in those days, breaking God’s Law of Divine Right. In other words God had chosen the monarch but the parliament were deposing the monarch.

      So, “The Glorious Revolution”, was a criminal act. Not only that but as the English Parliament would not accept that under, “Divine Right”, King James VI of Scotland had inherited the English Crown and under Divine Right could legally have just added England, Wales & Ireland to his existing Kingdom of Scotland and all of Christendom would have recognised the four countries as Scotland.

      However, King James VI never did get to form a Legally recognised united kingdom. First of all because the English Parliament claimed that as Scots law said the Monarch was King of Scots but not King Of Scotland, (i.e.the people were sovereign), thus King James VI did not have Scottish Sovereignty so could not tag England, (the Kingdom), to Scotland.

      In fact the English Courts ruled that a Sovereign, just by being Sovereign, could not give away the Kingdom’s sovereignty because it legally belonged to the Kingdom. So to this day, on the death of the present Monarch, the Proclamation will be, “The Queen is dead – Long Live the King”.

      So both Scottish & English Law states that There can only be a United Kingdom of two equally sovereign kingdoms because the two legal systems are incompatible.

      England’s sovereignty belongs to the Kingdom of England and the monarch cannot give it away. The monarch can only abdicate the throne and it passes instantly to the next in line to the throne of England. But in 1688 the revolting parliament of England forced King Billy & Queen Mary of Orange to legally delegate their sovereignty, (Divine Right), to the parliament but that still means that the Parliament of England cannot give it away because it legally belongs to the Kingdom of England.

      So just were and how could Westminster claim it has legal sovereignty over Scotland? The only way it can claim legal sovereignty is by the Scottish people’s legal sovereignty being delegated by them to their elected MPs at Westminster. Just as the Monarch of England delegates their sovereignty to Westminster. There’s the difference – The people of the Kingdom of England do not delegate their sovereignty to their MPs for these MPs get it delegated by the Crown. But the Scots MPs are delegated their sovereignty from the people who elected them and who can take if back if there is a majority of them who vote to do so.

      So if Nicola has her referendum and the people of Scotland vote for independence then, and only then, can the Scottish contingent legally walk out of Westminster and return, (with the people’s sovereignty), to Holyrood.

      Can anyone see any flaws in that argument? It all hinges upon a majority of the electorate voting for independence

    172. Flower of Scotland says:

      Is Trump really thinking of bombing Syria sometime soon? Imminently!

      They are discussing this as new news coming in on BBC2.

    173. DerekM says:

      @ Proud Cybernat

      Yea i noticed them on youtube they already have a few uploads not much interest in the channel,seem to be doing some kind of social experiment in what people think,maybe tories trying to gauge public opinion,questions like good news or bad news which do you prefer from the media,there is one on another referendum but it is balanced with yes/no.

      Claim to be neutral i guess we shall see.

    174. Cactus says:

      7) Michelle
      8) Willie Rennie
      9) Jim Ruth Davidson
      10) Kezia


    175. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 11.27
      Aw Robert are you trying to tell me that I would be better to wait till my neighbours actually try to move the boundary before I take them to court to have a judge tell them that’s unlawful!
      Why can I just no go to the court and show the judges my legal documents?
      Wee shame that!!!

    176. K1 says:

      Here is day 2 of The Women in the World conference.

      I can’t move the vid along to Nicola, so you may have to watch the first few speakers.

      Not sure of order but here are the speakers line up:

      Justin Trudeau
      Queen Latifa
      Scarlet Johanson
      FM Nicola Sturgeon
      Samantha Bee, who will introduce Hilary Clinton in her first sit down interview with NY Times Nichola Christope.

      (Maybe some techie can cut the vid to create a separate Nicola vid?)

    177. Fireproofjim says:

      Robert Peffers @ 11.22
      Excellent post, as usual, clear and consise.
      I agree with it all, but you ask for a flaw In the argument so I will play Devils advocate.
      It has been mentioned before, but if the Unionists boycott Nicola’s referendum and there is (say) a 90% Yes majority, but only 49% of the electorate voting, a can of worms is opened.
      Better if an agreement is reached with Westminster as in 2014.
      However things are so fluid at the moment that desperate measures may be needed.

    178. yesindyref2 says:

      @Robert Peffers
      Indeed, that’s probably the best way to go. But there are others, in standard court ways.

      First a Reminder letter.
      Dear Thersea May,
      I note I have not received a response to my letter of the 29th March 2017. As you can appreciate it is in both our interest to bring this to a speedy conclusion and avoid uncertainty and instability, especially at this difficult time for both of us.

      Pleas give this your urgent attention, and I look forward to your reply. Yours etc.

      Followed then after a couple of weeks by the Final Demand

      Dear Thersa May,
      Despite my reminder of xxth April 2015 I have to date received no reply to my letter of 29th March 2017, in which I requested a Section 30 Order to permit us to hold a binding and valid Referendum at a time of our choosing.

      I have no option therefore but to issue this final demand for a reply within 7 days, otherwise I shall have no option but to consider Court Action in the X Court (probably Court of Sessions) to bring this to a conclusion. Yours etc.

      Followed by the writ!

      Worked for me when I had to chase money, and they paid exactly when I predicted – 3 days after the expiry of the Final Demand to try to cause me the loss of a court fee – I’d waited 🙂

      @Liz g
      Unfortunately you have to wait until your neighbour actually starts to take your land – he or she might just have been “planning” with your expected consent of course.

    179. Robert Peffers says:

      @Liz g says: 6 April, 2017 at 11:51 pm:

      “Aw Robert are you trying to tell me that I would be better to wait till my neighbours actually try to move the boundary before I take them to court to have a judge tell them that’s unlawful!”

      No! No! Liz g.

      I’m showing that first of all Nicola should go ahead and hold a referendum when she thinks fit because then the onus falls upon Westminster to take the legal action.

      The main thing being that because what Westminster are then complaining about would be that the SG acted illegally and that claimed illegal action took place in Scotland then their initial action would need to be taken in a Scottish court and under Scottish law.

      Only after the Scottish court made its ruling would Westminster get the chance to take the matter to the Westminster Supreme Court but would first of all have to lodge an appeal via the Scottish Court and the Scottish court could by then have established some precedence’s under Scots law. Perhaps even telling them they had no grounds for appeal.

      “Why can I just no go to the court and show the judges my legal documents?
      Wee shame that!!!”

      Because as far as you are concerned there will not have been any criminal acts under Scots law and English law does not apply. Remember that the Lockerbie Bomber Case had to be under Scottish jurisdiction because the crime was in Scottish jurisdiction. What’s Nicola going to go to court for if she thinks no crime has been committed?

      Even if Westminster wants to bring a civil action it will have to start out under Scottish law – the psychology of all this is that it makes the very obvious point that Scotland is indeed a different country, kingdom and nation with her own legal system and her own police force and her own sovereignty.

    180. Liz g says:

      Ah…..So if ma neighbours don’t like the boundaries, I am working in,then they have to take me to court,and prove that I shouldn’t be doing it.
      Is that whit ye mean??
      In the right Court …Of course….All of them !!!
      But where we start is… em…Well it matters…Is that right?

    181. Liz g says:

      Oops last post @ 12.46….For Robert Peffers @ 12.24

    182. cearc says:


      I’m sure Stu will save the Scarlet Johanson piece for us!

    183. Breeks says:


      Know what troubles me about this Syrian gas attack justifying more attacks on Assad? It’s that Canadian nurse a few months ago, Eva Bartlett, who witnessed the liberation of Aleppo, and her powerful testimony about the media distorting the truth, and in particular how these “terrorists / rebels” were making and storing NATO manufactured bombs and chemical weapons beside densely populated civilian areas.

      If you zoom through to 3:00 minutes:

      What she describes sounds suspiciously like corroborating evidence of Russian accounts that the chemicals were not dropped as ordinance, but were already on the ground in the target vicinity.

      This ratcheting up of “remove Assad” rhetoric smells a bit fishy to me. Blowing up a target which had chemical weapons stored there sounds credible compared to the relative stupidity of Assad actually using chemical weapons.

    184. Iain More says:

      So the Obama creep show is coming to Scotland. He can GTF!

    185. Still Positive says:

      I am no so sure Iain More @ 1.01.

      He may well have a different take on Scottish Independence in the light of Brexit as he wanted the UK to stay in.

    186. K1 says:

      Aye Cearc, flashed on that masel’, he does like Scarlet (a lot) so that should provide enough incentive fur him tae edit the vid and gie us the FM segment as a throwaway gift 😉

      *pretty please Rev?*

    187. ian m says:

      Just read the article about Jackie Baillie and Trident and the 570 real jobs I can not see it to be that big a loss.Certainly would be sad about the job loss but how much revenue loss would there be for local merchants It is a DoD facility afterall do they shop at the local DIY store to keep the subs running?
      Just saying

    188. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ heedtracker: “Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh”

      I may be reading between the lines here, but I think you like her.

      Shame you provided a link which shows that SHE was in fact a tory gimp for many years, until Hague went and said something that must’ve seemed like a spanner in the works for her plans as a solicitor in immigration law. You don’t mess with someone’s bread and butter – that’s just not cricket!

      And here she is, an expert in making impressive amounts of money out of immigration and sharia law, and the glamorous star of soap opera ‘Foreign Homeland’ (eh?); married to a wealthy film-producer and daughter of a regional councillor. How did she ever make it this far with such adversity at every hurdle? Well, she’s all ours now. Ooh I could crush a gr*pe!


    189. bugsbunny says:

      The US has just fired 50 Tomahawk missles on a Syrian airbase. God help us all.

    190. bugsbunny says:

      I have tried twice now to post further comments on here but the green submit button disappears. So here goes for a third time. The US has fired 50 Tomahawk missles at a Syrian Airbase. I hope people have a good night’s sleep because that’s me wide awake now after checking my alerts after awaking for a pee. God help us all.

    191. mr thms says:

      Unemployment is a key economic figure..

      “Scottish unemployment falls by 16,000

      Unemployment in Scotland fell by 16,000 between November and January to stand at 129,000, according to official data.

      At the same time the UK’s jobless total fell by 31,000, reaching 1.58 million – its lowest level since 1975.”

      Scotland’s fall in unemployment last month accounted for over HALF of the UK figure.

      In addition..

      “The number of workers in Scotland employed in the low carbon and ?renewables sector has risen to 58,500 in 2015 – up from an indicative 43,500 employed in 2014.

      The low carbon and renewables sector generated a turnover of £10.5 billion, 14% of the total UK sector, the Office of National Statistics numbers show.

      In addition:

      Scotland represented 48% of all UK employment, and 53% of all UK turnover, in onshore wind

      33% of all UK employment, and 28% of turnover, in low carbon electricity generation, is in Scotland

      For low carbon services, Scotland represents 24% of all UK employment, and 26% of turnover.”

    192. bugsbunny says:

      Now the US has moved up to Defcon 3. The last time was 9/11. The two guys who posted at the same time as me. Aren’t any of you two even remotely interested? The shits about to hit the fan. Everyone who is sleeping fair do’s but if I read that, I would at least post something about it. I hope you all sleep well boys and girls. The shit really has hit the fan now. That stupid Cunt may have triggered WW3?

    193. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t think so. First Syria is supposed to have no chemical weapons, and this was brought about largely by Russia in a bit of a propaganda coup for them. Syria ratified brought into force the CWC in Sep/Oct 2013 and its last chemical weapons were supposedly destroyed in June 2014. If Syria still has chemical weapns it’s a red face for Russia. Russia was an early signer of the CWC, along with the UK and USA. They don’t like chemical weapons.

      So – Russia has already taken moves to distance itself from Syria over this, saying it doesn’t actually control Syria. Which an analyst would take to mean they accept the story. And the Pentagon say they informed Russian military forces as is normal (look at

      I daresay therey’ll be a bit of posturing, and that’ll be that.

    194. bugsbunny says:

      OK folks. Here goes. A US spokesman has just been asked about possible Russian Military and Civil aid casualties in this bombing. This fucking idiot replied “IF THEY WERE THEN THEY SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN THERE AND IF THEY WERE THEN THEY WERE COMPLICIT IN THE (GAS) ATTACKS”. This is fucking serious folks. I hope this blows over, but so far, nothing from Russia. The US spokesmen are ear.

    195. yesindyref2 says:

      “Now the US has moved up to Defcon 3”

      If the US is at defcon 3, it happened last year over North Korea, not Russia. Check it out.

    196. bugsbunny says:


      There is talk of possible Russian Military and Civilian casualties. And the spokesman gaining from ear to ear said if they were there then they are complicit in the attacks. Or in other words, if their dead tough shite. I’m not moralising either way about over this if there is Russian dead. Hope I’m wrong.

    197. bugsbunny says:

      President Trump is now on telly live. That’s all I have to say. I’m only as good as what I’m hearing and seeing. I hope to God your right and I’m wrong. I’m shitting myself here. Now he’s calling for countries to join him in the challenge ahead. Now he’s invoking the will and help of God. Oh, and he finishes with God bless America.

    198. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ bugsbunny

      Are you referring to Trump when you write ‘that stupid Cunt’? If so, I don’t think he decides anything more each day than what suit to wear to ‘work’ (and even that is debatable). The military industrial warhawks and strategists made the call, as usual.

      I’m not in the slightest bit worried, though. If somehow this turns into WW3 ( :O ) then it’s great that we all get to go together instead of alone. I’m heading for the centre of the nearest predicted nuke zone, as I don’t want to be left tilling the toxic soil with my three arms until I fall deid in my rags like what Threads did showed.

    199. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      yesindyref2: “Russia…saying it doesn’t actually control Syria.”

      Bingo. Russia have cut a deal on this one.

      The MSM reports were amusing in their bullshittery, though. Why do they bother with the propaganda? No one believes it.

    200. bugsbunny says:

      Yes reluctant. When I said that stupid Cunt, I meant President Trump. I hope you and Indy are right and I am wrong. But what if Russian Military are dead? I hope that Putin tries to distance himself from the Orthodox Shit stirrers who will be out on the streets calling for blood. The US are now saying if they are blood on their (Syrian) hands, then the Russians also have blood on their hands as well.

    201. bugsbunny says:

      I hope your right about a deal being struck between Putin and Trump. I hope to God you are right for all our sales. It might be the end of Isis and Assad if this is true. Mind you, there is no good guys in this civil war. The only innocents are those out of uniform that is targeted from all sides

    202. mr thms says:

      bugsbunny @ 3:31 am

      “Aren’t any of you two even remotely interested?”


    203. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      I like to think of Trump and Putin as just storefront mannequins. Trump not a very convincingly-lifelike one, and Putin about as impressive a one as I’ve ever seen (but still has no willy).

      Central banks; billionaire owners of Gazprom, Exxon, Halliburton and their nagging shareholders; billionaire arms industrialists; top military strategists. These kind of fellows will have agreed on the action.

      I may be wrong, but a few dead ruskie grunts has never been a big deal, and I doubt this will be the end of the Takfiri or Assad – unless they were all having a meeting at the airbase!

      Don’t you worry. Have a cyber-hug from me.

    204. Al Dossary says:

      From the outset of the “chemical bombing” last week, the Russians were stating that it was a Syrian strike on a munitions store / factory.

      I am more inclined to believe RT news than the massed ranks of Tomahawk rattling western media at this moment. Why would Assad even consider a chemical strike when he seems to be winning the battle, little by little.

      Contrast the quiet demeanor of the Russian press wrt the St Petersburg bombing and compare that to the British press. “Suspected” terrorist attack is about as senational as the Russians got in the immediate aftermath, whereas the British were on full scale TERROR ATTACK IN LONDON mode.

    205. starlaw says:

      I don’t believe a word from British media. This gas attack looks very stage managed, with news crews being in hand when the bombs fell then photos of children holding up pristine white placards which looked to be drawing office produced. Add that to the lies the tell about Scotland.
      Takes a bit of believing.

    206. Ken500 says:

      Is this for real. In Aberdeen Torry/Ferryhill.

      Renee Slater a changed gender person is standing as a Green. Who used to be a Labour councillor,until the they fell out. Who virulently holds Labour union views. Who posts on the Herald website. Is totally against the SNP and Independence. Opposes the SNP and Independence with a vengence. Irrational. Voters are expected to vote green because they support a Independence. Really?

      It would seem like a spoof but it looks real.

      After a Green (600 vote) give the Labour/Unionist coalition the casting vote for the last 5 years. For remuneration and office to renege on any green principle. To ruin the City centre with a grotesque monstrosity costing £100Million of little value. It has ruined the City Centre. How it got through planning is a mystery. Just mention Wilky Young. They have wasted and borrowed £Million/Billions. Tried to sell the City on the Stock market. The green was rumoured to have been intended to meet Farague.A total crook. There are also UKIP and far right candidates, Voters will surely draw the line there.

      Wasted £30Million in an Art Gallery renovation which was to be shut for five years. Appears to be shut indefinately. There are no funds to finish it. Aberdeen Artist’s, well renowned Exhibition, has no where to exhibit. Has virtually been postponed indefinately. Streets have been shut increasing the traffic chaos. The City has the worst illegal emissions in the UK. The neglect of the City by unionists is legendary. The appalling behaviour of incumerent administration verges on criminal. The public funding that has been wasted with no provision of. essential services is an absolute disgrace. Getting the City into £Billion of debt. Most of them should be put in jail.

      Now voters are being told to vote Green in preference For a absolutely SNP/Independence dissenter, who is totally anti Independence. It would seem to be a manic joke but is this for real? . Unbelievable. Vote till you boak. The Greens are a hindrance rather than a help for proper/policies Independence.Many will vote for them and will no not vote for Independence because of their lies and nonsensical unpopular policies. They renege on green priniciples at every opportunity and waste taxpayers money in protests and Inquiries. Support grotesque projects of no value in collusion with unionists getting towns and Cities into massive debt and cutting essential services. Then they lie and blame everyone else, and demand the Gov provides even more public money that they can squander on nonsensical ill thought out (non) green schemes. Attack the SNP Gov with lies and misinformation. For some cheap publicity and headlines with lies they have fed the calculating, regurgitating ill researched ‘Press’.

      The Council elections and STV is an utter farce. An insult to the electorate. This system must be changed. The useless chancers just get in again and again. A useless troughers eternal paradise. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. The electorate system in a farce. Just like the unionists who imposed it. No wonder so few people turn out to vote. Or can’t work out his the system works. It is just diabolical. Voters having to vote for candidates they can’t stand to get their favoured candidate elected. It is just impossible. An insult to the electorate.

      The said green has only recently stopped posting on the Herald website along with all the other suspects. Obviously because of the elections because they are standing as candidates. It has all gone relatively quiet. The Purdah corruption. Purdah was broken by the unionist Press at the Indyref1. Totally illegally ignored.

    207. Hamish100 says:

      Trump must have watched West Wing. An episode where an airfield / military depot is hit to preserve proportionality.

      My old man was more discerning in such issues. ” don’t take a leg off a chicken – it can still hop- take its Heid off!”
      A misfiring cruise hitting the presidential palace or other locus where the president or military chiefs reside would be far more satisfying.

    208. Ken500 says:

      The rebels in Syria funded by the West were making chemical weapons and storing them. The facility was hit causing the casualty.

      The West -US/UK have been illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years. Funding all the trouble. In In support of the most absolute, despot monarchy and apartheid regimes in the world.

      The US/UK Gov should be held to account for the carnage they have caused. Illegally killing and maiming millions of innocent people. Taking their resources and devastation their economy. US/UK have caused the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Getting into £Trns of debt and ruining the world economy.

      US/UK politicians should be tried at The Hague and put in jail for their crimes against inhumanity. They are lying corrupt criminals with no excuse. US/UK Govs should have to pay recompense and remuneration for reconstruction for the damage they have done in the Middle East and Europe. Ruining the world economy, world peace and prosperity. They are manipulative, chronic liars.

      If Trump goes ahead and sanctions more bombing. He has turned from a saviour to a sinner. Once again the US electorate has been let down by a Washington President. Trump has obviously been got at by illegal surveillance. The Washington mafia are moving in. Illegal fraudsters and tax evading, money laundering criminals

      There are House of Representative elections in less than two years. The beginning of the end? A 50% majority. Is needed in the House of representative. 100 menbers. Two from each State. 3/4 majority is needed in the Senate. The numbers will not add up for effective Federal Gov. The last thing the majority of Americans want is more war. They are sick of it and sick of paying for it. They are sick of illegal bombing and invasions. They will not countenance or endorse consent.

    209. Robert Louis says:

      Here’s what is happening in the USA.

      Capitol Hill: ‘Mutterings of impeachment that just keep getting louder..’

      Donald Trump: ‘Let’s commit an act of war and unilaterally launch 59 missiles against another country that is NOT attacking us or our allies’.

      Distraction, distraction, distraction. Trump ‘making America great again’ by killing brown people. Yeeeeha, y’all.

      Every time Trump, the American idiot, speaks, I just can’t help remembering that Scotland against its wishes yet imposed by England, is cursed by the presence of a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction (WMD’s), just 30 minutes from its largest city. Target numero uno in Western Europe.

    210. Hamish100 says:


      Nice to see the FIrst Minister with Mrs Clinton. Mrs Clinton looks much healthier than her picture with ms Dugdale where she looked quite cardboard.


      Small nation thinks big

    211. INDEPENDENT says:


      Just watched the ex British Ambassador to Syria rip the S**t out of The USA and UK’s backing for last nights missile attack.

      He also ripped Michael Fallon a new one, when asked by the Beeb how he came to qualify his views, which were opposed to Fallons.

      He replied ” When I assessed the situation I DID NOT LEAVE MY BRAINS AT THE DOOR!!!”

      He then tore into the Intel and sighted the false Intelligence which was used to undermine and misinform against Saddam Hussein.


      I hope some one cleverer than me can capture it before the Beeb delete it.

    212. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT I see that some students seem to find Obama so appealing that they want to ask if he would stand as Rector of Glasgow UNI.

      Right enough , he has a nice smile and a Nobel peace prize that he sure as hell did not earn.

    213. Arabs for Independence says:

      Ken500 @ 7:37

      I googled Renee Slater. FFS

      Jings and crivens

    214. Macart says:

      @Robert Louis

      I suspect that bombing a runway had little to do with solving any problems, or righting any wrongs. I suspect it had more to do with sending a message on the world stage.

      I very much doubt the current POTUS cares much about anyone other than the current POTUS and certainly not for any situation or any people in the middle east.

    215. Ken500 says:

      Not Obama coming to Scotland. For pity’s sake please NO. What the hell is going on. The warmongering parasite. Made $Millions by cheating on the poor and vulnerable. A composite liar.

      Yasmin does great work for gender equality. Works herself dizzy and is admired in many quarters. Campaigns on many gender issues. Both men and women’s. Does sterling work for equality and fairness in society. Try to get the facts rights, please. Don’t let the rabid discrimination show. Some politicians of conviction actually take a drop in salary etc to be MP’s or representatives. Especially in the SNP. They have done for years because of belief and conviction of that there can be no doubt.

      The Morningside Labour? MP, who fears non re-election. So impressive folk can’t render his name. He has to wear vulgar UJ costume to get notice. He might regret that in any coming GE, which gets more likely every day. He answers e-mails quite promptly because he doesn’t get very many. Just sits about troughing and lazying all day. Instead of going and doing something useful instead.

      Disagrees with every one of his Party’s policies issues. A truely useless cretin. Another one of whom the majority of the public can’t stand the sight. Especially in the garish.costume. No doubt paid for by taxpayers money, to add insult to injury. He lies and gave false account to win. Another one who cheated to win. It seems to be catching up with him.

    216. Brian McKay says:

      I read on another site that, apart from London and the Southeast of England, all other parts of the UK were suffering economic slowdowns. Not surprising given this government’s London-centric approach, but it would be really useful if someone (Stu?) could publish these figures.

    217. Les Wilson says:

      well, we are going to have to wait to see what comes about due to the missile strike on Syria. Watching the media this morning it is looking to have been some kind of set up to me.

      Russian policy has been frustrating the aims of America,that cannot be allowed it seems.The Westminster government was quick to back the strike,and Fallon saying they were fully informed of the impending action, and of course support it.

      Sky does some kind of polls that they are showing this morning, unbelievable guff, which they suggest means something.
      They are continuing with these polls in order to make the public more aware of them with the idea that eventually the public will believe them. It is pure propaganda nothing less.

      It seems the West is seeking war with Russia, if that becomes more obvious we will indeed have armageddon thrust upon us.
      The Russians know what war means America has yet to experience such havoc and suffering in their own land, we need to mend fences not build walls,or they may find war which really effects their lives to such an extent it will make other wars seem like
      a punch up in a school playground.

      We also need to remember it is a tactic of failing nations through history to cause war and make the people feel a united
      cause is beneficial for a failing regime to continue as their only hope.

      Think America, with huge debt, possibly loss of the dollar supremacy in the world. Something which would be catastrophic for the population who is addicted to cheaper goods and an a privileged way of life for so many. Despite this poverty is growing alarmingly.

      Think the UK, very similar problems as America, and saddled with a Tory government for the foreseeable future that is hell bent on taking us all back to victorian times.

      These countries and others in the West are becoming more unstable, so the unthinkable may now be the elite plan and that is war.
      One that cannot be predicted other than it will be catastrophic for the world and all things in it.The elites will withdraw into their secret hideaways of course, they intend to survive.

    218. Ken500 says:

      Tom Hunter should be ashamed of the damage Obama has done to the world economy. The killing and maiming of millions of innocent people. Causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Causing hardship and strife for vulnerable people world wide. Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion, They are despicable people. Absolutely appalling Non charitable. Some ‘charities’ are an absolute fraud. Imagine endorsing a lying, greedy, corrupt warmonger. It is disgusting.

    219. Ken500 says:

      Fallon is a lying Tory cheat. They committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. Punishable by prison. To win a 13 majority. Most of them should be in jail for crimes against humanity to line their greedy pockets. Enough is never enough for them. How much longer before people have had enough. Will they get away with it, again? Or are they on a shoogily peg,

    220. galamcennalath says:

      16months ago, fancy Russian air defence system deployed in Syria …

      … looks like it didn’t work very well.

      Or, behind the scenes has Russia agreed the Syrians should take the hit?

    221. schrodingers cat says:

      re Renee Slater scottish greens

      just checked out her fb page, very pro indy,

      she does seem a tad odd, but hey a lot of greens are, no big deal, and as for her past, she may well have been a labour unionist, but that isnt a crime, a lot of yes supporters were also once labour unionists

    222. Dorothy Devine says:

      galamcennalath, it is just possible that that tale was a BBBC piece of propaganda so that we all ‘OOh and Aah! Bad Russia must be in cahoots with Assad who is BAD”

      I am watching RT and cannot believe that the UK , OZ , Japan have supported this bombing and saying it is justified.

    223. John H says:

      Ian Brotherhood 11.16pm.

      I learned that about Blair Jenkins yesterday here from Robert Kerr. The question is, who appointed such a doubtful character to such an important position?

    224. orri says:

      Hasn’t there been cases where terrorists have used home made Sarin in terrorist attacks? I ask because neither a deliberate attack with chemical weapons or a hit on a stockpile fit the survivability of what’s happened. A factory making the stuff seems more probable.

      The idea of ISIS making chemical weapons should, of course, be enough cause for alarm to force all their opponents to put their differences to one side. Which might be the only reason they’ve not got round to doing so. That and the fact that any unofficial international governmental support they had would vanish over night.

    225. Ken500 says:

      Mike shouldn’t bother coming to some parts of Scotland to talk. It is obviously off the radar, so out of touch.After defending the green hypocrite. Obviously out of touch and trying to make trouble. Going frequently for donations, How much more public money can be wasting down the dunes, instead of the sewer. Cutting essential services by the greens. For a bit of wanton cheap publicity. Hopefully not defended with public money to line some lawyer’s greedy pockets. Wanton waste of public money again. The total hypocrisy. What a load of debris.

    226. Ken500 says:

      Renee Skater is not pro Indy. Or has a funny way of showing it. Slags off the SNP and Independence at every opportunity on the Herald website. With a venom which is totally incompatible to any given Indy position. Mental health issues?. Got chucked out of Labour for eccentric behavior and that was saying something. Pro Labour/Unionist views. Still in tune with a passion.

      This is who – people who support SNP/Indendence are being told to cast a vote. Not very likely in a million years. The damage they have already caused to the City, and would cause again. Reneging on every supposed principle. They will do so again.

    227. orri says:

      Scotland was well on the way to making sure that the UK would reach the targets set for renewables until the HoL decided that windfarms could be blocked based on environmental grounds. Bad enough when the HoC does that kind of thing.

      Not only does that have a direct impact on Scotland’s economy but it might have had an ulterior motive of forcing more “green” energy schemes on the rUK so that when Scotland became independent the rUK wouldn’t suddenly find itself facing fines for failing to meet targets.

      The fact that the UK is now facing, potentially, fines greater than the supposed savings from withdrawing support for renewables and interlinks to the islands isn’t ironic.

    228. Bill McLean says:

      The West has wanted rid of Bashar al Assad (sorry if spelling wrong) for years as they wanted rid of his father.
      Basically it was because neither would fall into line with western wishes. Bashir further refused an oil pipeline from Iraq through Syria to Turkey to make it easier for the west to purloin Iraq’s oil – bit thin on detail as it was some years ago. The west wants nothing short of total dominance in the Middle East with their Israeli and Saudi friends. If they can’t have that they certainly want “regime change” in Syria. Remember the last time that was their aim – that worked well and is the direct cause of the horrors for the people in the Middle East now! The West since Suez has intervened to many times around the world and each time has failed. They never, never learn. Scotland must remove itself from this madness soon!

    229. Black Joan says:

      O/T I wonder if the eloquent and charming Professor Joe Goldblatt of Queen Margaret University will be welcomed back on GMS in a hurry?

      This morning, at 2.50 hours in, having been introduced as an expert, and asked what impact Nicola Sturgeon’s visit to the US would have on tourism, he replied,”I believe Nicola Sturgeon is the most respected and trusted tourism ambassador this country has ever seen”.

    230. schrodingers cat says:

      seems that the proof that it was assad is cos trump says so,
      this was confirmed by turkish minister on bbc 10 news, that it was assad.

      trump and ergodan…..really

      im also confused by some of the images of the rescuers in the immediate aftermath of the attack were wearing gasmasks/facemasks but no protective clothing.

      sarin is a neurotoxic agent which attacks the body via the respiratory system but also the skin.

      see the following
      Personal Protective Equipment

      GENERAL INFORMATION: First Responders should use a NIOSH-certified Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear (CBRN) Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) with a Level A protective suit when entering an area with an unknown contaminant or when entering an area where the concentration of the contaminant is unknown. Level A protection should be used until monitoring results confirm the contaminant and the concentration of the contaminant.
      NOTE: Safe use of protective clothing and equipment requires specific skills developed through training and experience.
      LEVEL A: (RED ZONE): Select when the greatest level of skin, respiratory, and eye protection is required. This is the maximum protection for workers in danger of exposure to unknown chemical hazards or levels above the IDLH or greater than the AEGL-2.
      A NIOSH-certified CBRN full-face-piece SCBA operated in a pressure-demand mode or a pressure-demand supplied air hose respirator with an auxiliary escape bottle.
      A Totally-Encapsulating Chemical Protective (TECP) suit that provides protection against CBRN agents.
      Chemical-resistant gloves (outer).
      Chemical-resistant gloves (inner).
      Chemical-resistant boots with a steel toe and shank.
      Coveralls, long underwear, and a hard hat worn under the TECP suit are optional items.
      LEVEL B: (RED ZONE): Select when the highest level of respiratory protection is necessary but a lesser level of skin protection is required. This is the minimum protection for workers in danger of exposure to unknown chemical hazards or levels above the IDLH or greater than AEGL-2. It differs from Level A in that it incorporates a non-encapsulating, splash-protective, chemical-resistant splash suit that provides Level A protection against liquids but is not airtight.
      A NIOSH-certified CBRN full-face-piece SCBA operated in a pressure-demand mode or a pressure-demand supplied air hose respirator with an auxiliary escape bottle.
      A hooded chemical-resistant suit that provides protection against CBRN agents.
      Chemical-resistant gloves (outer).
      Chemical-resistant gloves (inner).
      Chemical-resistant boots with a steel toe and shank.
      Coveralls, long underwear, a hard hat worn under the chemical-resistant suit, and chemical-resistant disposable boot-covers worn over the chemical-resistant suit are optional items.
      LEVEL C: (YELLOW ZONE): Select when the contaminant and concentration of the contaminant are known and the respiratory protection criteria factors for using Air Purifying Respirators (APR) or Powered Air Purifying Respirators (PAPR) are met. This level is appropriate when decontaminating patient/victims.
      A NIOSH-certified CBRN tight-fitting APR with a canister-type gas mask or CBRN PAPR for air levels greater than AEGL-2.
      A NIOSH-certified CBRN PAPR with a loose-fitting face-piece, hood, or helmet and a filter or a combination organic vapor, acid gas, and particulate cartridge/filter combination or a continuous flow respirator for air levels greater than AEGL-1.
      A hooded chemical-resistant suit that provides protection against CBRN agents.
      Chemical-resistant gloves (outer).
      Chemical-resistant gloves (inner).
      Chemical-resistant boots with a steel toe and shank.
      Escape mask, face shield, coveralls, long underwear, a hard hat worn under the chemical-resistant suit, and chemical-resistant disposable boot-covers worn over the chemical-resistant suit are optional items.
      LEVEL D: (GREEN ZONE): Select when the contaminant and concentration of the contaminant are known and the concentration is below the appropriate occupational exposure limit or less than AEGL-1 for the stated duration times.
      Limited to coveralls or other work clothes, boots, and gloves.

    231. schrodingers cat says:

      no one is telling you to do anything ken
      if you dont want to vote for a green or, vote till you boak etc, unionists, dont

      i cant confirm if it is the same renee slater on the herald, i dont read it, but her public facebook page is definately pro indy and very pro sturgeon and maire black,

      who she voted for before joining the greens is irrelevent, half the folk reading wings voted for unionist parties in the past

    232. Ken500 says:

      A YES coalition with little experience was involved with the YES campaign. That is why it was maybe left wanting. E-mails were being leaked in a suspicious carry on. They were getting six figure salaries giving posts to their mates. Stress and tensions from within. Some were deciding unofficially without any authority who should be involved. Improvements could be made. Learn from any mistakes.

      The YES coalition appointed Blair because he had Press connections and experience. In any circumstances with the Unionist lying and cheating that was going on. It was a big task at that time. The demographics have changed. The promises VOW that were made have not been honoured and now Brexit. Look to the future not the past.

    233. call me dave says:

      @Black Joan
      He was great and managed to get the Arbroath declaration 1320 in and noted the Scots were at the heart of the American Declaration of Independence.

      Certainly off Aunties speed dial list.

      1,000,000 Scots ‘left’ for America mostly in the 1800s Jings!

      ‘left’ Aye right.

    234. Achnababan says:

      I agree with you Bill but I think Scotland should not remove itself but rather actively work as an independent country to prevent USA and UK from ruining any other countries and killing innocent people.

      In fact I would go further – my dream would be to see Scotland become a founder member of an international community organisation dedicated to world peace (of course we would have to leave NATO).

      Lets call out and shame the greedy billionaires and the aggressive militaristic nations for what they are.

      Peace and power to the people

    235. Sinky says:

      Brian McKay says:@ 8.54

      Is this the site you mean?

      It’s time the SNP rebutted such claims by Tory / Lab / Fib Dems also Brian Wilson in Hootsman claimimg the SNP has cut local government funding by one fifth when he is not comparing like with like.

    236. fletch49er says:

      Scotland should use it’s ‘unprecedented powers’! You know the powers! The powers! Yes, the ‘unprecedented powers’ that Scotland has! Are you dim witted or something? Scotland has ‘unprecedented powers’ and they should be used!

    237. heedtracker says:

      BBC news say Trump “acts decisively,” so on the one hand at coffee time,

      BUSINESS NEWS | Fri Apr 7, 2017 | 9:45am BST
      UK industrial output shrinks unexpectedly in February, adding to signs of slowdown

      on the other not Scots oil saves UK arse, again, history repeating itself over and over

      Oil price jumps after US strike on Syria
      2 hours ago
      From the section Business

      That grip around Scotland’s throat tightens.

    238. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fireproofjim says: 7 April, 2017 at 12:06 am:

      ” … I will play Devils advocate.”

      It has been mentioned before, but if the Unionists boycott Nicola’s referendum and there is (say) a 90% Yes majority, but only 49% of the electorate voting, a can of worms is opened.”

      Yes! There always was going to be a can of worms, though.

      I see it as Nicola, as has become usual, being several jumps before Westminster. By her statement yesterday that she will not test a refusal of Westminster to grant a Section 30 Order, she has made sure those worms in the can are our worms.

      Just what court can Westminster use? No criminal act has been committed. It is not against any Scots law to hold an advisory referendum. By not granting a Section 30 Order Westminster has made sure that any referendum held is, what referendums usually are, advisory only.

      Legally no one needs anyone’s permission to ask any group of people what their opinions on any matter is. The opinion poll people do it all the time and the newspapers, airwaves and on-line sites do so constantly.

      The Indyref1 Section 30 Order was not permission from Westminster to hold Indyref 1. Your proof of that is it had two signatures on it, Westminster & Holyrood, it was therefore an agreement between two parties.

      It could just as equally be argued in court that it was Holyrood granting Westminster permission to use Holyrood’s referendum results.

      So just what will Westminster be trying to accuse Holyrood of doing wrong? It simply is not against any law to ask any group of people what their opinion of any matter is and no one needs permission to do so.

      Even if they did try to take court action they would have the decision to make what legal system to use. Scots, English and they have to use one system and get a result they do not agree with before attempting to take the matter to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court is supposed to deal with matters in dispute in the lower court systems.

      So no crime has been committed no matter what the referendum result turns out to be but if Westminster contests the result it would only be because Westminster did not like the result. Thing is nothing they can do will change the result and the World and it’s mother can see they are attempting to go against the democratic will of the people of Scotland and it will focus the World’s eyes upon the truth that the United Kingdom is indeed no longer a United Kingdom and Nicola has exposed what Westminster really is – The de facto parliament of England holding the only other kingdom in the union as a dominion of the country of England – along with the two dominion country’s that the Kingdom of England brought into the Union as parts of the Kingdom of England.

      This whole scam that there is a country called, “The United Kingdom”, hinges on the mistaken belief that the Treaty Of Union formed a united single country. It didn’t but that has been the Westminster claims since day one of the union. It simply is not true. The United Kingdom is exactly that – a kingdom formed by two equally sovereign partner kingdoms.

      Even it’s title gives the lie to the claim that it is a unified country and this time Europe, in particular, has an axe to grind and the World, this time, is paying attention.

      In short it doesn’t matter what Westminster decides to try. If the World’s free countries accept that Scotland is a country then Westminster has no further say in the matter.

      To put it bluntly – we are back before 1707. At which point in history the World accepted Scotland was an independent kingdom and country but without the centuries of Westminster propaganda that the UK is a single country. At best it has only ever been a unified state that contained two Kingdoms which two kingdoms contained four countries. It never has been, except in the Westminster mind-set. a unified country.

      Nicola will just go ahead and hold the referendum and her smart move is to ask Westminster for a section 30 Order. The smart part being that Westminster believes its own propaganda that the Section30 order is Westminster’s Permission. If it was a legal Westminster permission it would not require a Holyrood signature.

      A Section 30 is a bipartite agreement of both signatories to accept and act upon the referendum’s result. Furthermore, referendums are normally only advisory, hence the section 39 in the case of indyref 1.

      Salmond played a blinder on that one and today’s situation proves the SNP were way ahead of everyone when Salmond was shaking hands with Cameron after signing the first section 30 order and the media, led by the BBC, were crowing that Cameron had won a great victory. Noo they ken itherwise.

    239. Ken500 says:

      The posts of the Renee Slater on the Herald contradicts with any face book page of endorsements for Indy or SNP. If that is the case the Herald is acting totally illegally damaging another person’s affiliations. Allowing a poster who they must know is not that person. Really, really low standards of slander even for the Herald. If that is the case. I apologise totally and ubreservably. For being fooled by the total appalling disgusting Herald website.

      Still stands about the green member’s hypocrisy and incompetence. In the City, siding with the unionist coalition for office and remuneration, though. Plus the problems in the region. Caused by green intransigence of purpose. Ruinig the local economy. Illegally preventing a Golf development, the expansion of the Airport, the building of an essential by pass road for years. Totally against the majority wishes and the public interest. Costing the local economy £Billions. Which have been wasted in Inquiries and malicious hold ups for years. Making every project need more funding. Then having to cut more essential service funding because of the wasteful hold ups and controversy caused. Refusing a gift of £ pedestrianise the City. Etc.

    240. Ken500 says:

      So once again. The UK economy contracts but that is reported as a failing of Scotland. The twa faced irresponsible Press. Scotland being dragged down the Brexit sewer illegally by the Unionist Brexiteers. For which Scotland did not vote.

      Fraser, Wells and Tomkins etc will be off on their Scottish taxpayers subsidised holidays. Probably to somewhere nice. That is why they are incognito. Enjoying the spoils while Syria burns again. Illegal further austerity bites in Scotland. Courtesy of unelected Tory Andrew Dunlop. Thatchers henchman and the illegal, electoral crime committing, Westminster unionists. For whom a majority in Scotland did not vote.

    241. schrodingers cat says:

      agree with RP’s post

      but holding indyref2 without section 30, or withdrawing snp mp’s, or dissolving holyrood and holding another election, are nuclear options,

      were the polls showing a 60% support for yes, i would say go for it now, but they arent we are sitting about 47-50% yes.

      we should bide oor time, the fall out from brexit is only going to get worse, i expect treeza to storm out of negotiations after the german elections this sept, with wto tariff barriers falling like wet cement over night. then the shit will really hit the fan

      an indyref2 win, which guarentees access to the single market, will be a very attractive proposition and support for yes will climb.

      this is the point where such nuclear options should and will be considered, until then, i hope nicola continues with the diplomatic and reasoned approach.

    242. Mungo says:

      Robert peffers.
      Hi Robert, you said, “Thing is nothing they can do will change the result and the World and it’s mother can see they are attempting to go against the democratic will of the people of Scotland.”
      If we only get 49% turnout and a 90% YES result, then how can that be considered the democratic will of the Scottish people? Westminster and probably the rest of the world will not accept that.
      Hope I’m wrong but would like to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks.

    243. schrodingers cat says:

      fair comment about the herald ken

      i recognise all of the issues you mentioned in your post, living in aberdeen for 20 years, they are all an absolute discrace, the bypass and the terrible new developement infront of the mareschal building are probably the worst.

      however, i cant see why the blame for this is laid at the feet of the greens, since it is labour and libdems who have run this council for ever.

      indeed, in 2007 and 2012, no greens were elected councillors,?

    244. Robert Kerr says:

      To follow up on Blair Jenkins,
      Blair Jenkins OBE awarded 2010 for “services to broadcasting”.
      I googled his name and Wiki gave first heads up on his OBE. Second hit was Huff Post which had strapline
      “Fellow of the Carnegie UK Trust and Visiting Professor in Journalism at Strathclyde University”

      I tried to make sense of this Carnegie UK Trust, based in Dunfermline and got very little other than generalities. Website gives board members and if anyone wants to trawl through them they are welcome.

      The first one is “Aideen McGinley” who is at present also a Trustee at BBC Worldwide.

      I suppose she also has been positively vetted by the Britnat Establishment.

    245. Alba Jock says:

      Local Council Elections Scotland. Perthshire! Pinned in a bus-stop in Pitlochry.

      Tory Candidates manifesto for change 6 points to vote Tory, point one.

      1. To stop SNP holding second referendum?? What the F***

      Your trying to be a councillor you fool stand up for the community not be next FM. Only tact they have to bring out tory voters. Don’t worry about council tax or emptying my bin’s. GET ON WITH YOUR DAY JOB. Rest of the points are the worst bull I’ve seen in years.

      If he get’s in it will e by default!! Stoop to anything to halt progress. They want us to fail so they can say we told you so. Nae’ luck there then. IDIOTS.

    246. Dan Huil says:

      The Scottish government is right to be establishing close ties with other nations around the world. This will help Scotland’s case when the referendum, regardless of Westminster’s signing or non-signing of section 30, result is in favour of Yes. Again, regardless of a britnat boycott. Another point in Scotland’s favour is Westminster’s uncanny ability to make enemies. More and more countries around the world are recognizing the difference between Scotland and England.

    247. heedtracker says:

      Jacky Bird and Douglas Fraser overjoyed this week at Scottish recession on the way, same gimps probably take different spin on UK non recession, not on the way

      Activity in the UK’s industrial and construction sectors shrank in February, new figures show.
      The Office for National Statistics said industrial output fell 0.7% compared with January, when it dropped 0.3%.
      Unexpectedly warm weather drove the change, because it led to a fall in electricity and gas demand, the ONS said.

      Its the lovely weather in England what causes it, in England. In Scotland, its SNP Scots gov.

      Anyone can be a beeb propaganda gimp.

    248. Luigi says:

      Ah well. It was bound to happen. Noone knows exactly what went on in Syria last week, other than many innocent people were killed or injured by chemicals. Was it a chemical weapon dropped or was it a chemical weapon store that was bombed? The truth will come out eventually. However, the speed with which the compliant western media jumped to conclusions and blamed Assad (followed by a 59 cruise missile launch) was breath-taking. I suppose the US may have backed themselves into a corner and felt they had to act. There is also the matter of Mossul, where the western-backed Iraqi government is struggling to retake (with huge numbers of innocent casualties). Yep, a distraction was required and as usual, the timing seems highly convenient.

      What did not surprise me was the speed with which the UK government backed the US action. Like the cowardly sneak that hides behind the bully (egging him on):

      British Bulldog? More like an American Poodle. 🙁

      What a shameful position. Not in my name, Mrs May.

    249. Dr Jim says:

      In Norn Ireland they’re considering a border poll and guess what they’re being told Now is not the time wait and see how Brexit beds in
      Awfy similar intit,

      In Norn Ireland the sectarianists are arguing over it, in Scotland the sectarianists are arguing over it and who wins?
      10 points for getting it right The Tories in England who get to do whatever the hell they like to whoever the hell they like because they win by keeping the festering sore of division alive by conning everybody it’s their own fault for being so divisive

      The Unionists claim the SNP are wrong on everything until one woman this morning on the radio put the whole thing in context by saying Donald Trump bombed the Russians out of temper and to show off to his voters, what happens if Vladimir Putin does the same, Michael Fallon told us having Nuclear Weapons made North Korea a target so has’nt Donald Trump just made Scotland the same thing

      Maybe the next referendum should just be women who vote so they can express how they might feel about wars and losing the lives of their husbands sons and daughters because some government they didn’t vote for decided to kill them, but that government will be relatively secure in England because Scotland is where the they parked their bombs

      Puts Ruth Davidsons Unionist sash into perspective a wee bit when she’s voting to kill not her kids

      Considering Yes now?

    250. orri says:


      I thought only unionists were determined that absolutely nobody could change their minds about Scottish Independence. Why are you so determined to agree with them?

      By all means point out that you distrust anyone’s change of heart as simply a means to gain support. Perfectly fine but it risks you being seen as one of those kind of student radicals only comfortable when they can be radical rather than mainstream. I think the new catchword is “entryism”. There’s nothing wrong with putting new members on probation and keeping an eye on them. Perhaps Blairism and the subsequent swing to Corbynism might not have been as extreme otherwise. Certainly allowing £3 to buy a vote in a leadership election has to have been a ridiculous idea.

      However in the run up to an election where we want to encourage some people to change their minds and move to independence supporting candidates it’s going to be moderately advantageous to have at least some candidates who’ve also moved to an independence supporting position. Especially if there reasoning is related to a change in circumstances which might get some voters thinking that they agree with them and it’s OK to change too.

    251. Al Dossary says:

      @Bill McLean,

      I have an old work colleague who in the 1990’s or early 2000’s worked in Pakistan (A new gas fired Power Station) , ultimately on hire to Cheney’s Halliburton.

      The crazy thing is that at he time there was no gas pipeline anywhere near. Not from the Indian Ocean, nor from The ‘Istans. The plan was he said to bring the pipeline from (Turkmenistan IIRC), through Afghanistan to Pakistan to supply it. There are reports that this was one of the reasons the Yanks got involed in Afghan.

    252. Liz g says:

      Fireproofjim @ 12.26
      Also don’t forget Fireproofjim in addition to what Robert Peffers @ 10.39 was saying.
      There were rumblings in Westminster (the lord’s I think) and in some news papers wither or not the section 30 agreement made a Yes result in 2014 binding on parliament.
      So even with one Westminster might still have put the matter before a Court.
      Then we are back to which Court would Westminster test the result of a Scottish Referendum in????
      So there is an argument that going to Court for a Section 30 order will make the process longer.
      Which is as far as I can tell what the UK government want to happen.
      So they can either agree to the Section 30,or not.
      But I don’t think that the Scottish government should try to go to a Court at that stage,as it will just hold things up.

      To run a boycott campaign is exactly that a CAMPAIGN…
      Which acknowledges that a vote is happening,and blows the “we don’t have time for a campaign because of Brexit” argument out the water.
      That’s not going to look good anywhere and would if successful not settle the question anyway,so Scottish resources are still off the table.

      There’s also that… mandate….They cannot get away from it no matter how much they spin.
      The Mandate would allow the Scottish government to campaign that they would immediately act to implement a Yes vote,so in a sort of “you got to be in it to win it” way,the only choice for the Unionists would be try and win or leave the field clear for Yes.
      At this point it’s a bit of a win win for Holyrood and they are not the one’s who need a Court.
      After a yes vote is in if Westminster want to try the Courts?,then they are trying to argue against the will of the people of Scotland to get what they voted for.
      ERM …that’s the “Judicial” rule that Westminster have resisted, jumped up and down about AND made law’s against for ….Well centuries really….
      So it’s probably not in their interests to go there.
      But who knows this lot seem mad enough.
      Interesting times indeed!
      But anyhoo even though I don’t think that she would have much to worry about, I can see why Nicola would want to stay out the Courts right now.

    253. Jack Murphy says:

      Ian Brotherhood said at 9:33 pm last night:-
      “Just a wee note to anyone who’s on The Twitter – if you see any tweets condemning that disgusting ‘Rape Clause’, please RT them and encourage your followers to do likewise……”

      This piece of Medieval Tory Law where a woman claiming Benefit for a 3rd child has to state on her Claims Form that she was raped if she wishes her Claim to succeed!
      This barbaric law came into effect yesterday and the Tories in Scotland are defending it!

      They have no shame—-none! 🙁

    254. Breeks says:

      @Fireproofjim says: 7 April, 2017 at 12:06 am:

      ” … I will play Devils advocate.”

      It has been mentioned before, but if the Unionists boycott Nicola’s referendum and there is (say) a 90% Yes majority, but only 49% of the electorate voting, a can of worms is opened.”

      Very true, but tweak the perspective. Long before we vote on anything, have the Court of Session throw the established constructional issue into the air, and see it land with Scottish sovereignty being internationally recognised as legitimate.

      That need not be a UDI, we can stop short of that, suspend our sovereignty; grant ourselves a transitional status of neither independent or in Union, but some void intermediate condition in between, with nothing decided as certain EXCEPT the absolute condition of ultimate Scottish sovereignty.

      Suddenly the ScotRef referendum isn’t a “should we/ shouldn’t we” referendum. Scots Law does that, with their legal affirmation “we already are sovereign”, and we follow that principle up by having a multi option plebiscite to determine what we do about it.

      That creates a situation which sees our longstanding constitutional dispute settled, a pre-existing legal precedence becomes clear and internationally respected, and the consequences are democratically ratified by the will of its people.

      There is nothing for Unionists to boycott. It’s the neutral, objective, rationality of the Law which torpedoes Unionism amidships, but if they want a harmonious Union with England then the plebiscite is their opportunity to argue for one. Let Scotland move on from our transitional “void” status in whichever direction the population decides.

      If it’s Union with England, so be it, but Scots Law restricts that to a confederate union which does not compromise sovereignty. It’s not a United Kingdom, but Confederate of United Kingdom’s.

      But fully Independent or in Union with England, the Nation of Scotland will be internationally recognised as sovereign, and can decide for itself whether to stay in the EU or Leave. Assuming the EU agrees, we have the sovereign competence and authority to agree terms as a member nation.

    255. schrodingers cat says:

      Luigi says:
      7 April, 2017 at 11:27 am

      Ah well. It was bound to happen. Noone knows exactly what went on in Syria last week, other than many innocent people were killed or injured by chemicals. Was it a chemical weapon dropped or was it a chemical weapon store that was bombed? The truth will come out eventually.

      true, although i doubt we will ever know

      then again, ask yourself who gains most from this?

      ergodan will be very happy

    256. Robert Peffers says:

      @Hamish100 says: 7 April, 2017 at 8:16 am:

      “Nice to see the FIrst Minister with Mrs Clinton. Mrs Clinton looks much healthier than her picture with ms Dugdale where she looked quite cardboard.”

      I thought more along the lines of:- “… her picture with ms Dugdale where she looked quite cardboard., bored.”

    257. Ken500 says:

      That is not the case. The green position in colliding with unionists for personal gain and damaging economic policies which damage the local and national economy. It will put people trom voting for SNP and/or Independence because of the too highly publicised association. That will be put off many voting for Independence because of the fear that the ‘green’ nonsensical policies will ever come to the fore by association. Ie the Green Party policies are the most unpopular for obvious reasons. They are not thought sufficient through. Apart from the fact older voters (more likely) to vote do not appreciate the (non) ‘green’ policies. They do not practice what they preach or do as they say in many instances. They can be seen as hypocrites. Voters will be put off because if it.

      They are often seen as dishonestly colluding with unionists Parties damaging policies for personal gain. The majority do not like their Party, their behaviour, policies or often irrational arguments. To a balanced economy. Often their policies are nonsensical. They are a small pressure interest group of small numbers been promoted beyond their relevance. It could be the case that many voters will not vote SNP or for Independence because of the (promotioned) association. The Greens behaviour will put off more people from voting SNP or for Independence because of this (promoted) association. It is not anything to do with people changing their mind or otherwise. It is about people being put off voting SNP or for Independence because of the (promoted) -association because of the Independence issue. Ie people not coming on board because of this. Not just in the first instance but ever.

      Sometimes they are promoting intellectual discussion. Which often leave out major topic relevance. Points that eschew the whole total discussing how taxes funds being raised but not including the importance relevance of how and where (Westminster) money is spent. It is not a balanced argument. A balance sheet has two sides. Profit and loss. That has to balance. Many ‘expert’ economists do with total lack of self awareness. In one sentence the extensive argument can be questioned, but on and on and on they go. Leaving out the relevant details. It is quite extraordinary. Weird. Like a one track vision, with no deviation. When there are multiple variants .

    258. The Rough Bounds says:

      Imagine if Scotland had voted Yes in 2014 and as an independent country, away from Britain, we were watching what was happening in the Middle East, what with the bombing by the Americans of Syria with 59 Cruise missiles etc.

      Wouldn’t you feel a lot safer being independent than you do at present? I certainly would.

      Being tied to the British and the Yanks gives me the jitters.

    259. Ken500 says:

      In NI sectarianism is becoming an irrelevance. The demographics have moved. Sectarianism has weaken. It looks like a United Ireland could the result. That is how people have voted. The political landscape has re-aligned, which could lead to a United Ireland. Assimilation illegal historical wrongs imposed by an unelected British State. People can now vote. Brexit would have played a part. The majority want to stay in Europe.

    260. chasanderson200 says:

      Been following your posts here and one over-arching thought springs to mind:-


    261. schrodingers cat says:


      After a Green (600 vote) give the Labour/Unionist coalition the casting vote for the last 5 years.
      who is this scottish green?

    262. Dr Jim says:


      Unionists in Norn Ireland wouldn’t care if the UK bombed the North with a Nuclear weapon, sectarianism is their number one priority and always will be

      That’s why they have a never ending peace process which will never end

      We have the same people right here in Scotland and they couldn’t give two monkeys for the country or it’s people they’ll still wave that flag as they go down the London plughole rather than as they see it give in

      You can’t inform or educate those who refuse to be informed or educated, these people are radicals in the same way all religionists use religion to defend against reason
      You ever heard Americans go into a war without invoking the name of God
      Religion sells it gets you votes and especially makes you hate Russians because they’re Godless or God’s not on their side, or ISIS they’ve got the wrong God, or pick one any one and you can be sure somebody’s God gets brought into it

      See how that works

    263. orri says:

      The question isn’t whether under Scots’ Law the people are sovereign or not. It’s where and to whom we grant the right to exercise the various aspects of that sovereignty. Certainly one of the guiding principles of that is our stated intent that, allowing for the Union of Crowns, if our acknowledged monarch puts her position as Queen of England above that as Queen of Scots, in Scotland, then we can replace them.

      Westminster will argue till they’re blue in the face that constitutional matters lie with that parliament as a whole. The counter argument is that it lies only with our MPs rather than the body as a whole. That would be consistent with the right to self determination we as a people are guaranteed by the UK as a signatory to the UN charter.

      The only remaining argument then is that in 2015 the SNP did not stand on a platform for independence. Pretty sure that the unionists are quite capable off digging up quotes to suit that and pretend that neither was Holyrood.

      The “nuclear” might be a mass resignation of all our Westminster MPs short of simply withdrawing them and a re-standing on a straight independence platform. REmoves our control of the franchise and frees up a whole load of potential postal votes given no other GE would be taking place.

      Probably it’d be an easy hurdle to re-equip our SNP MPs with a clear mandate and most would be re-elected. After doing that it’d be up to Westminster to either wake up to reality and allow that we were independent or to finally agree that a constitutionally binding referendum was to be held.

    264. Dorothy Devine says:

      Rough Bounds, likewise!

    265. Rock says:

      Robert Louis,

      “Well, there was me starting to think The National was actually a good option to read, and then they go and include a piece of political spin (basically rubbish) by a Tory MEP (Ian Duncan).

      Sorry, National, you have just lost a reader. If I want to hear pro London Tory hogwash, and ‘off the record X was said to me’ type rubbish, I can read The Herald, the laughingly titled ‘Scotsman’ or the Torygraph. In fact pretty much ANY newspaper in the UK. I buy the National so I don’t need to read Tory lies.

      The editor of The National should not take us for fools.”


      “Interesting to know that about the National. Yes we need to have a wide spectrum of voices, but the yoons have 100% of the media as a platform, so it’s disappointing that The National is giving a tory a voice. No thanks.”

      I have been saying it for long.

      The National’s main purpose is to milk gullible independence supporters.

      And to promote the Greens and RISE to harm the SNP.

    266. Rock says:


      “Wee question for you Rock, not acrimonious or accusing, but because I think you have a point;”

      My point is simple and clear:

      The Scottish “plebs” have never been “sovereign” and anything that states they are is not worth the paper it was written of.

      Shouting from the rooftops that we are “sovereign” hasn’t achieved anything in the last 310 years and will not in the next 620.

      Scotland has effectively been a colony of England for the last 310 years.

      Apart from that, I leave it to you and Robert Peffers to discuss the finer points of your “sovereignty”.

      Unlike you guys, I am no expert and do not pretend to be one.

      Serious question: If Robert Peffers thinks he knows so much, why hasn’t he written a book on the subject?

    267. Rock says:

      mike d,

      “Rock 6.24 pm. “The selfish middle classes,the brit nat elderly,the English. You forgot the sectarian orange bigots.”


      I won’t from now on!

    268. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “@Dan Huil says: 4 April, 2017 at 7:32 pm:

      “Has Rock given us his views on Gibraltar?”

      Who would know, Dan? Does anyone still read his comments?”

      Robert Peffers,

      “In an unguarded moment, while distracted by me wee dog, I actually read one of Rock’s posts.”

      So you are blaming it on the dog?

      At least the dog is “sovereign” while you are not.

    269. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers
      I find that “For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction” to be a sound statement.

      Therefore can I sympathise with you,as I totally understand that along with the many joy’s of dog owning,it has to be said that there are some pitfalls.

      Such is life!

    270. carjamtic says:

      Back in the day (pre,yoon,internet spot checks/fake outrage,I had to admit to,two pimples and a plook) back when Long John Silver had two legs and only an egg on his shoulder.

      I had a standard,easy way to respond to the promises of the yoon (to ‘drive themselves” off of the www.) a simple, “no need to thank me,it was always a pleasure,never a chore”.

      But that came across as a tad too sarky,a bit too dry,so I changed it to,”I’ll never forget that last thing you posted,I’ll never forgive myself” (I was always searching for the ultimate put down or a killer one liner).

      A wee while later,when they reappeared,I thought ffs,I’m shit at this,how would Long John Silver handle it ? Is there a better way ?….would he have turned to the egg,sneering “well well well,if it isn’t the guy from the www. who told me to go fuck myself ” then whisper someone profound like “my newts Tiny”.

      Witness the ex Tory Leader,overcompensating for a complete lack of brain,by dropping his trousers to the floor and announcing to the EU,check out my package,it’s much bigger than yours.

      Yes maybe it is and maybe they do feel the need to demonstrate that they have still got it (a simple,put it away grandad,will often suffice in this situation) but a loud Tallyho and three ‘rousing’ versions of onward Christian Soldiers was never going cut it.

      No,this is not just some sort of mid life crisis the U.K. is going through…..that is the ‘black spot’ and yes,this is the end.

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top