OBAMA INTERVENES IN REFERENDUM
Posted on
June 05, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Yeah, whatever.
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And that’s what they do folks.
Well done Rev…given this announcement the coverage it deserves
http://archive.today/whAgp
Well, why the hell does he not apply for the US to come back under UK rule, then?
First the Queen, then Obama who will be next to speak out against democratic self determination for Europe’s oldest and most outlooking nation. Will it be the Pope or Justin Bieber?
America’s history of bombing and assassination against democratically elected governments with whom they disagree with is well recorded.
Cameron bends over for Obama in return for taking the heat off his Darling.
Maybe we should think about this.
I mean, no-one bar us virus folk seem to think it’s a good idea and that includes people who already live in independent countries!
It must be really really shit if they’re all trying to talk us out of it! There probably wont even be any squirrels if we go it alone!
OH LOOK now an African American Squirrel WOW
More lobbying of foreign governments by the uk government,lobbying against democracy and until 18th september,its own citizens no doubt.
Looks ok from here,eh?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27309446
A guy at work is vehemently anti-independence but also thinks Obama is the devil. Can’t wait to see his head spin over this.
Dear People of Scatchland
Please stay together with England.
Our nukes are at home in Scotland.
Thanks for helping to write our Constitution.
And our Bill of Rights.
And raising money to send home those bastard redcoats.
No taxation without representation! – oops!
Sorry. That just slipped out.
Yours in a kinda imperialist way.
President Obama
@desimond
Yeah, yeah, but I‘d like to decide if its shit or not
I actually quite liked reading about it (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10878492/Barack-Obama-says-Scotland-should-remain-part-of-United-Kingdom.html)
Pretty clear the reasons behind his desire for Scot’s to reject their independence and it ain’t for the benefit of Scot’s.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha concise !
“Yes we can”
I vaguely remember someone saying that, now who was it again?
…. Further to my post above. Is Obama trying to tell the world US Independence from London hasn’t been a success?
Was that ok Dave, now about our next war where do you fancy?
YES,WE WILL. 🙂
President Obama forgets that his own Declaration of Independence is partially based on the Declaration of Arbroath, and that the US Declaration was signed, by some men of Scottish descent.
Never forget that America had to fight for it independence, with the gun, we in Scotland are now fighting for our our own independence, not with the gun, but with the pen.
Bernard of Kilwinning would be proud of us all.
YES WE CAN
Its a pretty badly advised President if he cannot work out that the rUK and iScotland would have even more say in the EU, another Commissioner and 7 extra Scots MEPs for starters.
Watching Obama emote like Bob Monkhouse about the Afghan and Iraqi peoples’ right to rule themselves – after being suitably bombed, of course – while attempting to deny democracy to ancient Scotland is truly sickening.
@handclapping – Aye but how much say would said President have in what rUK and iScotland say in the EU. No point splitting your team up and adding a few more to the other side if that side doesn’t do what you tell it. 🙂
In spite of the weight of Nae sayers jumping on our chest and screeching lies in our face I see that Scotland has a pen in it’s hand and can still reach out to scratch ‘YES’ on the ballot paper.
Are all youse feart yet? 🙂
Now, here’s a scary image …
Niggle Fradge with a finger on the red button.
I hope they do returns on nukes. 🙂
Haw Pres!
Ebay calling. 😀
Well that might have been a mistake. A customer at the hairdressers just said she was a No but after Obama speaks she is a Yes.
She said a war mongering nation helping out another warmongering nation says it all and she wants out of that.
Is this the same Obama that believes in striving for Economic Justice?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2403775/President-Obama-deliver-speech-vision-50-years-Martin-Luther-Kings-famous-address.html
Sinky
My money would be on Miley Cyrus. 😉
What an ignorant wee man. Well that’s my take on his “we shouild stick with the union shite!” anyway. So just to make sure he got the message LOUD AND CLEAR I’ve sent him a wee tweet. 😛
@BarakObama__ BUT out of Scotland’s indy ref. it has NOTHING to do with YOU WE will decide what is best for US not best for YOU we want YES!
I wonder if he will read my wee message and also if my wee message will actually get through to him that we do not want him or any of his sort (world *ahem* leaders) telling US what is best for us! 😉
Jan 2017
President Obama in his final public engagement today welcomed Scotlands Premier Nicola Sturgeon to the White Hous and backed her demand that Westminster do one.
“Ive always said any proud nation that can house a Nato exercise is okay by me, as for Westminster, they have nothing I need these days since they lost that Security Council seat. Prime Minister Bojo can sing for all I care”
Sorry, Rev, but your link is beneath contempt.
O/T but Better Together insults continue via taxpayer funded Bussfeed
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/05/scottish-independence-lego-treasury-list_n_5451896.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
@Lesley-Anne
I bet you will look fetching in your Orange jumpsuit!
A major reason that Labour voters deserted the party, was for the parties loyalty to US warmongering.
Go USA and Labour.
Well, Obama and Cameron do have things in common, they both want what is important to them, for their own purposes.
Democracy is none existent with either of them. Actually it does as long as they can tell their chosen ones to go for it, but again, strictly for their own purposes.
They are taking the place of Bush, Blair friendship, this time Cameron will be the poodle.
BBC Newsdrive all over this like the vermin that they are. Obama, the man who uses drones to kill hundreds of innocent shepherds and their families… backing up his mate Cameron and ensuring we keep the nukes close to our bosom.
He’s just another sociopathic puppet for the industrial military complex known as the USA.
Also the BBC are trying to slur Kenny MacAskil over the latest move on Megrahi’s case. Weevil Anderson vomiting out more lies…nothing to do with the British State manipulating the then Scottish legal fraternity to stitch up an innocent man!
and wee Dougie Alexander has Obamagasm
Now we just wait for the leaders of Australia, Canada, India, Jamaica etc to re-apply to the union … I”m sure they rue the day they left 🙂
Land of the free, home of the pussy and another raging hypocrite kisses the UKOK ring. Is that a drone outside?
I actually thought comments were pretty neutral and US already advised UK to drop trident and beef up conventional forces
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, beware men carrying umbrella’s! ( Lol – I think!)
Nana Smith says:
Well that might have been a mistake. A customer at the hairdressers just said she was a No but after Obama speaks she is a Yes.
She said a war mongering nation helping out another warmongering nation says it all and she wants out of that.
Isn’t it great to see that the leader of the biggest warmongering nation (U.S.A.) on earth has the same effect on the people of Scotland as the leader of the second biggest warmongering nation U.K.) on earth. 😛
desimond says:
@Lesley-Anne
I bet you will look fetching in your Orange jumpsuit!
I might but I’ll tell you one thing desimond, Obama will never get to find out cause I’ll refuse to wear one, only BLUE and WHITE for me! 😉
The first time I visited Boston I mistakenly thought the freedom trail there was to do with freedom from slavery. Oops. And it is not by accident that the right wing pressure group in the US is called the tea party.
Were there any American inaudible mumbles?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10878492/Barack-Obama-says-Scotland-should-remain-part-of-United-Kingdom.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27713327
Even the UKOK far right neo cons love Obama now and it all sits badly with this Democrat voter too, who might write back soon.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/an-actual-letter-from-america/
Well isn’t it strange. On newsnow just at 17.12 a bulletin came up with a message from the FM with his reply to Obama and now the page has been taken down.
The message was Yes we can!
Les Wilson says:
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, beware men carrying umbrella’s! ( Lol – I think!)
I should be all right Les if I remember correctly it is only spies from what was the old Eastern Bloc that used the old poison pellet in umbrella trick. 😛
Another boomerang!
Does NONE of these people realise Scots are a contrary lot!
The more they push their way, the more we ignore. They will learn that lesson.
Lesley-Anne
Nice try but Langley will be working on cracking and blocking your code, right now. MKUltra was their baby, so these guys know all about Mancunians. 😉
Lesley-Anne says
Well that was the old days, now they are coloured umbrella’s,and some sort of plutonium!
CameronB Brodie says:
Lesley-Anne
Nice try but Langley will be working on cracking and blocking your code, right now. MKUltra was their baby, so these guys know all about Mancunians. 😉
They can try all they like Cameron but they’ll no get any where, after all I’m a Scot who is living in a country that will soon be the iconic “land of the free” as opposed to their wee, O.K. actually not so wee, pretendy “land of the free!”
They can try and crack my code all they want. I just have one wee request…once they have cracked it, IF they crack it, can they let me know what it is as well please? 😛
What happened to Obamba’s speech in Bussels this March, http://www.rt.com/news/obama-crimea-iraq-invasion-565/ where he said “Bigger nations cannot just bully smaller ones” The Cameron effect? Why does the Electoral Commission allow this stuff to go unchallenged?
Les Wilson says:
Lesley-Anne says
Well that was the old days, now they are coloured umbrella’s,and some sort of plutonium!
I love dogs. Isn’t Plutonium the son of Pluto…you know best friend of Mickey Mouse? 😛
“Yes we can”
I vaguely remember someone saying that, now who was it again?
I think you’ll find that was Bob the Builder.
Oops, sorry Manchester. 🙂
Pam McMahon says:
Pam, it is simple, the Commission are useless.
piss off Obama and take your fat cat money grabbing tax avoiding country wreckers with you ,just for that we should once we get independence give all our black gold to the Chinese they might give us some more pandas ,i would much rather have them than dirty great nuke bombs sitting in my back yard making us a first strike target.
Sigh, I care as much about Barrack Obama’s point of view as I do the man in the moon’s. That’s not to say that I think Obama is a bad president, I just don’t care what he thinks about my country. It’s none of his business what we do, just as what the US does in the US is none of our business. T
Reread Will McLeod over there in DC who wrote
“You know who was a founding member of the Friends of Scotland Caucus? John Kerry. He’s the current US Secretary of State, which means that he’s second-in-command on foreign policy issues to the President himself. He’s our chief diplomat, and he’s your friend.
John Kerry, United States Secretary of State, he say many things.
The 50 states of USA have greater autonomy and independence than Scotland currently has.
Is he the leader of a country that promotes democracy throughout the world denying Scotland the very thing his country promotes world wide?
HYPOCRITE!
This is actually outrageous, and will just stir up ill feeling.
Obama does his country no credit at all with statements like these.
The US likes to go around preaching democracy and freedom yet the stench of hypocrisy is sickening at times.
I wonder what dodgy US policy Cameron promised to support in return for this ‘intervention’.
Hey, the Electoral Commission aren’t useless, they’re great to have in your corner if you want a vote rigged.
Obama is nothing but another greedy, murdering trouble causer. A war mongering hypocrite, as unpopular in Europe as he is in the US.
10% of American voters are of Scottish descent. The Scottish disaporia. Obama should watch his interference. Fools step in.
So didn’t think to see what people in Scotland say about being a sovereign nation, just went along with a Cameron feed?
I wonder what his advisers will be saying to him later today, maybe, “You walked right into that one”.
Specially for desimond, who typed,
“There probably wont even be any squirrels if we go it alone!”
http://scottishwildlifetrust.org.uk/things-to-do/wildlife-webcams/loch-of-lowes2/
And pics captured from that webcam to prove there are squirrels who use that feeding station…
(Scroll down past the osprey pics to hit pay dirt.)
http://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/uploaded-pics-page-4
Putin interfering in Ukraine = BAD
Obama interfering in Scotland = GOOD.
Is that how it works, Mr. President??
Typical hypocrisy.
I am frankly tired of people saying ‘oh Scottish independence will be terrible, and the sky will fall down’, swiftly followed by the line ‘however, this is a matter for the people of Scotland’. It is duplicitous, and comes straight from Westminster. If you really believe it’s a matter for the people of Scotland, kindly shut up.
Make the most of my posts folks cause I think my days may very well be numbered. 😛
http://tinyurl.com/m4hpcao
If there is one sure way to get up the noses of Americans it’s to offer them advice on their domestic politics. I’m sure most Americans will be surprised at President Obama sticking his nose into our internal affairs. Bad move, Mr President, and one likely to have the opposite effect to the one you’d hoped for.
Dave must be really, really worried about the September vote, if he’s asked Obama to offer his support. And Obama must be very concerned too, as he’s now provided it. So, in short, it’s good news, folks.
I suspect Obama and the USA will come to regret this statement when Salmond has the full force of the Scottish nation state in his control. A boycot of US goods is in order, who’s with me?
Obama: “Speaking from the outside”
Translation: “I don’t really have a clue what life is like for people in Scotland, but hey who gives a shit, all I care about is the safety of the United States. Hell if China was an ally I’d say, Tibet, fuck them.”
Hi Lesley-Anne.
That link gives news of just the sort of tool all governments should have!
I am 110% in favour and can’t think of a better, more free society to administer such a tool.
Mind you, we have some tools in this too wee country of ours who, really, shouldn’t be allowed to open their mouths without administration. Maybe they’re trying to emulate the ‘Tool-in-chief’ of our former colony?
Aye, every time a young Scot’s body is returned to this country with his coffin draped in a butcher’s apron means it’s one less American life wasted in illegal foreign adventures!
Lesley-Anne
Hope you enjoyed the singing dog I posted the other day. I was frustrated at not finding another dog and piano duet (same dog I think), where the dog achieves almost perfect pitch and tempo throughout. Totally incredible.
Oh what’s that, Wall Street supporting the City of London? Get away.
Maybe Alex. Salmond can say a few words in support of the indigenous Hawaiians who are also currently fighting for Independence from America.
That`ll be the same Hawaii that provided safe haven for Obama`s family and that educated Obama.
He can fuck-off back to hack Hawaiians and sip that glowing Russian tea from CHERNOBYL in the heart of UKRAINE.
Has BamCam got the “goods” on Obama via GCHQ ?
R whittington says:
“A boycot of US goods is in order, who’s with me?”
But I like ‘Big Bang Theory’ and ‘Family Guy’…
8=(
I think it is a tool that governments should have as well Brian. What worries me though is that there are certain individuals *ahem* Arbroath 1320 😉 who might find themselves getting a knock at the door in the middle of the night due to their *cough* sarcasm. Let’s face it some of my *ahem sarcasm does not come through very well over the internet. 😉
If anyone wants to have a heart attack just wait till my sarcasm switch gets turned on and all hell will break loose. 😛
He’s scared that he looses control of a part of American 51st state, when you coming to collect all those pesky Greys buddy.
look forward to July 4th,when Cameron marches into Washington,and reclaims it for Britain
Sorry Cameron I missed that post. Mind you I was not on line for a few days so I guess you must have posted it then. Don’t worry though I’ll have a look for it later. 😉
I’m going to start calling them ‘Freedom’ hotdogs with ‘Freedom’ mustard as opposed to ‘American style’ just like those yanks did to the French.
That’ll show them eh!
Obama wants the “united” kingdom to continue because he thinks it is in America’s interest.
By voting Yes the people of Scotland will be doing what’s best for Scotland – and to hell with war-mongering America!
Bugger, here was me arranging to go to New York on holiday and then this breaks, well I think I will spend my hard earned money in some other country.
BBC in Scotland really excited but aren’t we not supposed in the neutral BBC campaign zone now and it what way is their vote NO headline neutral?
Last week’s neutral campaign kickoff date’s made the BBC even more vote NO aggressive, which probably makes sense as noone can do anything about it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27713327
Scottish independence: Barack Obama backs ‘strong and united’ UK
O/T Did anyone else hear Cameron today proudly proclaiming that golf was “invented in England”?!
Liquid Lenny says:
Bugger, here was me arranging to go to New York on holiday and then this breaks, well I think I will spend my hard earned money in some other country.
Don’t know when you were planning to go LL but if it was AFTER 19th September I think you might have found yourself on some new *ahem* TERRORIST list. 😛
And I thocht O’Bam was a derogatory term used by Irish people for their native gombeens.
No wonder they can rip the Yankee tourists off with their kid on leprechauns, maybe using wee people from Coatbridge and selling them green beer.
What have the Brit Nats promised for that Bam statement: Brigadoon village after the Brigton Commonwealth Games have finished?
I really appreciate those who take the time to contact the Electoral Commission and ask for them to step in, or highlight the bias and inadequacies of the organisations debating the referendum. From a purely historical point of view it will be important when we look back that there is evidence of this, and I can’t help thinking of the football game in the film “Escape to Victory”. Appealing to the Electoral Commission is like appealing to the referee in that game. Pointless, but powerful. By trying to play to the rules we show up those who ought to be upholding the rules as playing for the other side.
heedtracker at 6:18
Posted this on an earlier thread –
The BBC are not subject to scrutiny by the Electoral Commission as most people probably assume, myself included until I contacted the EC. Their reply was that the broadcast media are regulated by Ofcom in the case of commercial broadcasters and the good old BBC Trust for the BBC, and we all know how effective they are at regulation!
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, with your interests at heart, could you tell me if you heavy coat, a rucksack, a small tent and a small stove?
Just in case! just concerned. Lol!
If folk are shocked about secret trial in Britain, they should remember the Americans are a lot further down the same path.
O/T – STV 6 pm news.
Drunken Britnat intervention.
Anyone else see Alistair Darling’s finest BT (sober ?)stormtrooper interupting the female reporter discussing the Tram review – blabbing on about independence bad -British Union good ???
Ignorant drunken git – will be air brushed by Bernard Ponsonby no doubt.
Wonder if Darling will mention this?
I actually found myself arguing with an American catholic of Scots-Irish decent, the other night, who was a staunch British loyalist. Go figure. 🙂
Les Wilson says:
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, with your interests at heart, could you tell me if you heavy coat, a rucksack, a small tent and a small stove?
Just in case! just concerned. Lol!
Funny you should ask Les, just last night I went searching for exactly these items and wouldn’t you know it they have gone *ahem* missing! 😛
If anyone ever wondered what Obama actually stood for then I think I’ve successfully de-coded it. 😉
Only
British
Are
My
Allies
This is just getting absurd, Wee Rotund Brian waving the latest BT Flier live on TV.
Lesley-Anne
Thought I’d save you the bother of looking. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ika3Gvhgho
Thanks Cameron. Brilliant! 😛
It’s all about the nukes. The American hawks are also concerned about the loss of a faithful poodle.
It’s all about the nukes. The American hawks are also concerned about the loss of a faithful poodle.
Oops
Relax – it’s media spin – this is what he was really saying and what the BBC wants to downplay.. “I think in light of the events that we are going to be commemorating tomorrow, it’s important to recall that it was the steadfastness of Great Britain that in part allows us to be here in Brussels in the seat of a unified and extraordinarily prosperous Europe.
It’s hard for me to imagine that project going well in the absence of Great Britain and I think it’s also hard for me to imagine that it would be advantageous for Great Britain to be excluded from political decisions that have an enormous impact on its economic and political life.
This is why we have elections, and we’ll see the arguments made, and I’m sure the people of Great Britain will make the right decision”
He’s not telling the Jocks what to vote – he pretty much threatening the people of England NOT to vote UKIP or leave the EU if they know whats good for them 🙂 Drone for Farage????
Slight overreaction. He did say “from the outside”
it seems to work. And he said it’s up to the people of Scotland. In other words he stated a personal opinion, in much the way the FM does about international issues. I don’t have a problem with that. The ones I have a problem with are those who claim to have the best interest of Scots at heart, who know the reality if the union and still say we’re Better Together.
O/T
Begging letter from Slab….
Nana Smith
This Saturday, the 7th of June, hundreds of Labour activists will take to the streets across Scotland as part of our National Action Day to share the message that Scotland has the best of both worlds – a strong Scottish Parliament with the strength and security of the United Kingdom.
This referendum will be won by our activists leading the campaign in their home towns, and thats why we’re asking you to join us this weekend at one of our events.
We have events across Scotland, and you can find the event closest to you and play your part here.
For those of you unable to join us on the doorstep we’ll be running a day long phone bank in Glasgow, details of which are available here.
The next three months will decide the future of Scotland, and if you believe that Scotland’s future is in leading the UK rather than leaving it, then we need your help!
We’ll see you on the doorstep.
Scottish Labour
@ GrahamB, thanks for info which explains why its no holds barred from Pacific Quay now. Just watched them go apeshit over Obama then totally destroy Kenny Macaskill and SNP Scots,gov over the Megrahi early release.
It could be that the BBC just goes in far too hard from now and makes people wonder what the hell they’re really up to because they have gone totally mad from up here in Aberdeen.
Calm down people. Angry denunciations of Obama for saying in public what any American President would have said in private gain us nothing. Accept his comment for what it is. A simple statement of how America’s strategic interests would best be served.
As the anti-American rants disgracing this thread, the commentators should be ashamed of themselves. We have many friends across the Atlantic, who don’t support their President’s view on the future of the UK. Why would we want to risk losing them with childish insults and threats of boycotts?
Let’s not forget the kittens though. Pity our unionist politicians can’t seem to get this sort of thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTSKmQSxQMI
Note this slap to Britain’s view of it’s role in WW2…
“it’s important to recall that it was the steadfastness of Great Britain that in part allows us to be here in Brussels”
In Part??? IN PART!!! WOOOOOHOOOO Barry really REALLY hates Britain…
Caroline Corfield says:
Caroline, I have discussed a number of issues with the Commission via email, never had a good response yet. Today I emailed the Link from Wings about Flipper. I asked if this was acceptable within the “rules”.
I made the point if they do not make some comment/ action over it, it would be deemed that it was in fact acceptable to them.
No reply yet, no doubt getting snowed under with complaints, but we will see how they react to that. I will post the response on wings.
Brian Taylor on Reporting Scotland, said Better Together were going to use Barack Obama in August!
Are Better Together slipping badly in private polls?
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, sorry about this but re my last post to you, remember and take cough mixture with you! See, I am pretty considerate . Lol!
100+ comments for two words….Chapeau
Les Wilson says:
Lesley-Anne says:
Lesley, sorry about this but re my last post to you, remember and take cough mixture with you! See, I am pretty considerate . Lol!
Och aye that will be the first thing to be packed. Mind you I’m still waiting for it to be returned from a local *ahem* friendly chemist. He’s just checking it out to make sure there is nothing *cough* untoward been added to it. 😛
As usual BBC Scotland has put the usual gagging order on any comments by not allowing any.
I now take the opportunity to post on any topic in which the BBC permits comment by saying something along the following lines:
“Off topic but why does BBC Scotland continue to gag the Scottish people by not allowing comment on the Scottish Referendum”.
I suggest if we swamp these other comments, it might get a reaction.
If lots of people do this, it will swamp whatever topic is
Aloha Hawaii.
Let`s Annexe Gibraltar. In football terms, Gibraltar is deemed a nation state which Scotland is due to play in the same EUFA Qualifying section as us.
We pay tax in Scotland to supply a Governor-General, his mansion, staff etc.. We also pay tax to supply many more RN FRIGATES in the Med. than has ever been there to protect North Sea Oil and Gas Revenues. To protect 2.5 square miles that is Gibraltar.
An Independent Scotland should bar yankee companies from our waters and retain our mineral rights for us.
“The Seven Sisters” were born at Achnacarry House in 1928 on The other side of Loch Lochy, an estate owned by a Dutch guy.
Long before AVN AMRO swallowed RBS and fred the shred.
Sorry about the rant but Obama infuriates me.
“We should let the investigation [into allegations that Qatar secured the tournament through bribery] to run its course, but of course England is the home of football, as it’s the home and inventor of many sports – tennis, rugby, GOLF, skiing, table-tennis, cricket.”
David Cameron
7.30pm tonight
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/2996414
As the anti-American rants disgracing this thread, the commentators should be ashamed of themselves
No one should be ashamed to question a country who shoots it’s leaders down like dogs in the street to pursue the goals of the military industrial complex. The guns of Dallas echo to this day, Obama is nothing but a puppet, a figurehead for a banana republic where might is right and the dollar is king.
Is anyone outside of independence supporters viewing this website? I get the feeling we are conversing with like minded people which will not increase the vote.
I agree with Ian MacWhirter in today’s Herald; the Yes Campaign needs to up its game to win over women and older voters.
I feel like the UK government and the NO supporters are gleefully closing the only door to peaceful democratic progress. This what they allways wanted for the decision to be made by anyone outside Scotland, they never really agreed to a real honest vote. This entire process will come down to trusting the police and a few election officials guarding the registers, not to stuff the ballot boxes with uncast votes. Westminster now feels it has permission.
Well that was a put up job if ever there was one.
Do we know who asked the question? Was it an American journalist or one of Cameron’s lapdog Westminster press pack?
I could have sworn I saw Obama cast his eyes towards Cameron as he was replaying as if to say “Am I getting this right Dave? Is that what you asked me to say?
Considering he helped to overthrow a democratically elected Gov. in Ukraine, he’s in no position to interfere in the Scottish referendum!
Superb analysis as always, Rev.
This is going to get nasty folks
Obama giving the BT more ammo to chuck in our faces. I despair. No doubt for the next few weeks the EBC will sign off every news show with “and over to Washington for a union update”.
So every one knows . Scotland must stay in the union cos Obama says so.
Well sorry folks that’s me sorted
No doubt about it
NOGUY
The thing is, it was perhaps his personal view, or it could have been so that he and Cameron can hit hi fives!
Nevertheless, he said it in public under scrutiny of the world press, which does give it a more personal aura to it, as far as we, and our aspirations are concerned.
So, he should have been the statesman he purports to be in his references to democracy across the globe, and if not encourage, then say nothing. That is what is unacceptable.
O ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map,
O ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map,
O ye can shove Obama aff the joab
‘Cos he’s Cammy’s Double Whammy
O ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map .
Ye can shove the Yookay aff the map.
Ye can shove the Yookay aff the map .
Ye can shove Wee Cammy
‘Cos he’s Obama’s Dummy.
Ye can shove yer ither Millie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Silly Millie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Silly Millie affa bus.
Uncle Millie’s like yer Cammie
A Yankee-scarum Bammie,
Ye can shove yer Uncle Millie aff a bus.
Ye can shove yer Auntie Johan aff a bus.
Ye can shove Auntie Johan aff a bus.
Auntie Johan her Faither’s sister,
She’s naethin’ but a twister,
Ye can shove yer Auntie Johan aff a bus.
But ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map,
O ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map,
O ye can shove Obama aff the joab
‘Cos he’s Cammy’s Double Whaammy
O ye cannae shove auld Scotland aff the map .
Singing I can if you can so can I
Singing I can if you can so can I
Singing I can if you can I can if you can
Singing I can if you can so can I
I just had a call from a mate who although voting Yes, is completely turned off by politics. Anyway, he was telling me that BBC news in Scotland just reported Obama’s support for independence, stating it would mean America would have two great friends instead of one. Any deeper analysis? My mate thought it important but was his usual desert of information.
YES we can! Didn’t Barack O’Bampot use this phrase?
Bigdrone says:
YES we can! Didn’t Barack O’Bampot use this phrase?
Didn’t he nick it from an old SNP campaign? 😉
Two of America’s greatest living philosophers would not be too happy with loose talk of the reintroduction of the monarchy.
President Obama needs to keep such thinkers on his side.
Krusty: “Hey, yutz! Guns aren’t toys. They’re for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face.”
Homer: “Lisa, if I didn’t have this gun, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around.”
Anybody given a thought as to what might be the result of today’s by-election in Newark? A UKIP victory perchance, now wouldn’t that really put the cat among the pigeons? Oh and from earlier above don’t forget that the Scottish nobility of the time wrote to Pope John XXII on the 6th April 1320 in what was to be called ‘The Declaration of Arbroath’ and given our new Pope Francis I think he might just favour Scotland as he is a bit of a Maverick!!!
Auld Rock
@ footsoldier 7:07 – yes dear but sometimes we need to share our thoughts with friends, that is what this site does for me. I harden myself and leap out the door ready to win folk round with love and cup cakes.
Channel 4 got it right tonight when the reporter indicated that Obama was only voicing Cameron’s round tables G7 talks, in which he had the opportunity to ask Obama for the favour to mention the Scottish Referendum, in which he (Obama) would indicate a possible favouring of the status quo,
(What favour has Cameron to give back to Obama ? )
Sorry dear that should have been a capital F.
Well it looks like the wheel has finally come full circle folks. Guess who dear old Blair McDougall has just asked to take part in a debate FOR Better Together. 😛
http://tinyurl.com/qfbj5jj
Just had my call back to apologise for getting a bit muddled.
“I suspect Obama and the USA will come to regret this statement when Salmond has the full force of the Scottish nation state in his control. A boycot of US goods is in order, who’s with me?”
Don’t be so silly and childish.
Read this story on the train when there was 15 comments, now home an hour later to 115. Given the humungous number of tweets crowding my browser, it’s fair to say this has caused a bit of a stir.
But let’s do exactly what Rev does, take a step back, and look a what was actually said here
“The United Kingdom has been an extraordinary partner to us. From the outside at least, it looks like things have worked pretty well. And we obviously have a deep interest in making sure that one of the closest allies we will ever have remains a strong, robust, united and effective partner. But ultimately these are decisions that are to be made by the folks there.”
(Bold my emphasis, not his).
First of all, let’s look at this in the context of all the other things he said. The above is all he has to say about the referendum – and as we’ll see in a moment it’s actually pretty weak diplomatic language – but he then went on to say considerably more in considerably stronger language about the UK’s position within the UK and how vital that was. There was nothing weak about his choice of words there.
So let’s look at this statement. First of all he nods to the “special relationship” that has existed in the past – that’s pretty much a given for a US President about to say something about Britain. Then he says “From the outside at least, it looks like things have worked pretty well.”
That’s clearly an acknowledgment that from an internal perspective things may not have worked well, but he’s not going to comment on that.
Then then goes on to say:
“And we obviously have a deep interest in making sure that one of the closest allies we will ever have remains a strong, robust, united and effective partner.”
Now, of course it’s the word “united” that everyone is focussing on. In the context is does look pretty loaded, but in terms of diplomatic language, what’s he actually saying here? Not very much. Britain will still be “united” under one monarch, and indeed under one currency. We don’t have to have a political union in order for the people of the British Isles to be “united”.
When you look at this in the proper context, it actually looks pretty weak. Should he have said it at all? Well, no – but it was probably wrung out of him by Cameron in exchange for some other concession. From the start of this process, it’s been clear that UK Gov has been trying to elicit overseas help in “quelling the Scottish rebellion”. In the case of Baroso, this plea appeared to work – at least as long as he thought he was in with a chance for the Nato top job, which, oh dear what a shame, he didn’t get in the end. And of course we had Lord “Naw Naw” Robertson’s cataclysmic plea to Washington which made the UK look weak, desperate and rather absurd.
This is how international diplomacy works. You use careful language, and you read between the lines. If Obama really was concerned about America’s interests in the event of an indy Scotland, he would have chosen stronger language. The fact he goes on to talk at length about the UK and the EU in stronger language points to where his real concerns are.
Oh dear me. How bitter.
A foretaste.
Does Obama have vote?
“Does Obama have vote?”
No, why? Does that mean he’s not entitled to give his views?
O/T
Live event now started.
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive
“”An independent Scotland will mean that America has two great friends and allies here rather than one,” Salmond added”
Why is Salmond dictating which countries an independent Scotland will be friends with?
Duggie and Lorraine up a tree, talking s-h-i-t-e
Another David Bowie moment that gets the media excited but will not make any difference to how people will vote.
Obama helps the Yes campaign.
It’s the Thrawn Effect.
Vote Yes.
@Pentland Firth
Calm down people. Angry denunciations of Obama for saying in public what any American President would have said in private gain us nothing.
Point is he really would have been better keeping his views to himself or sharing with whomever he wanted in private. It is of no surprise that he made this statement at the G7 meeting.
@Footsolidier
I think your missing the point of wings. It’s where the Yes supporters come for their education. Call it “finishing school”.
With this new found knowledge we can go speak to those that are undecided or soft No’s and give them the facts without the bullshit.
That is what people are asking for isn’t it?
Would be pretty hopeless if all we did was read the papers and watch the BBC, not much convincing to be done with those tools.
Lesley-Anne
That’s a parody Bliar bitter together twitter account. Looks like David Coburn MEP has bought into it!
@Lesley-Anne 7:31
look at the spelling of Blair’s name .. hint .. hint 😉
I suspect Duggie’s as Green as the new Rangers 3rd strip.
lorraine the troll.
foretaste of what?
Obviously the UK government has been pulling strings behind the scenes to obtain this result. However, I suspect that while the Americans may make minimal gestures like this one to please the UK government, it isn’t bothered either way with regard to Scottish Independence. The USA has nothing to gain or lose from it.
Nevertheless it is a mistake on the part of the USA to make even this kind of minor interference in Scottish affairs. The UK govt will forget this act of assistance but many Scottish people may not.
Interesting that Obama made reference about Britain remaining in Europe, surely that is not on, given that it is polling day in a By- election? I wonder what Nigel thinks about that intervention, you know American politicians on the BBC getting beamed into British households?
Obama was obviously briefed in advance that the planted question would arise. He chose his words very carefully and deliberately and he was not daft enough to use campaign rhetoric. Noticed Cameron’s smug face light up when Obama got halfway through. Remember Cameron did say that he would do everything he could to keep the UK together- well apart from a debate with the First Minister and to overrule Ruth on Air Passenger Duty for starters. No surprise then that Cameron is asking other prominent leaders to come out and voice their support for his failed country. Cameron’s problem is that we Scots are much smarter than he thinks. The only suckers taking all this in are the media and BT.
Just wait to the Commonwealth Games, Cameron will try the same tactics there, despite the suggestions that they are to be a politics free zone. No chance, either Cameron or Darling will make some crass comment that will help the YES cause even further.
Duggie
I like to think I am a patient individual, but you do not appear to be with the program. I have to assume you are, in fact, against?
In a completely non-constructive contribution to our high-minded political discourse, I give you… A LIST OF NAMES PRESIDENT OBAMA HAS NEVER BEEN CALLED PRIOR TO HIS INTERVENTION IN THE SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE:
Bawbag Wank Fanny Cuntybaws Wallaper Fud.
Murray McCallum honey – don’t be naughty!
If Obama really was concerned about America’s interests in the event of an indy Scotland, he would have chosen stronger language.
That’s not the point though. The whole of the ukok media/BBC are using anything and anyone to turn Scottish independence into a monstrous grotesque.
For years they’ve cranked themselves up to an intensity that will just get more extreme as ref day approaches and Obama or at least his advisor’s know this. From now on Scotland running Scotland will become some kind of impossible horror on BBC an itv and ofcourse in your newspaper, like Pavlovian grade brain washing.
Then when its all over, dudes like Sir Gordon Brewer will be back again on newsnight Scotland telling us how clever we all are for voting no and how we must all now vote Labour, on the back of all the hard work they did to save the union.
If you think this wrong, look at same teamGB media savaged the life out of Gordon Brown/New Labour for 2 years before the last UK elections. SNP Scots.gov gained a lot of votes from that so our best hope is that they just couldn’t quite get Cameron in and the Tories still lost, for now.
“you do not appear to be with the program. I have to assume you are, in fact, against?”
By ‘the program’ I assume you mean independence? Which of my comments suggests even slightly that I’m against independence?
Its quite the opposite – I regularly discuss and support independence plans and policies, as well as standing up for democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people.
Or by ‘the program’ do you mean the SNP’s version of ‘independence’ alone? In which case you’re correct.
Freedom Fries anyone?
Watch it, Mr O. We might just give Mr Snowden asylum, any more of your lip.
I’m sure the Russkis can get him on a sub and safely into the Moray Firth a week before your tame stooges on London notice. ????
Duggie darling – I can’t really be bothered copying examples from previous threads, anyway rain has stopped so I’m back out to knock on doors.
I’m with Robert Louis on this one, oBAMa says “unacceptable interference in Ukraine’s sovereign affairs by the Russian Federation” then interfers in Scotland’s sovereign affairs in the same speech.
Blair was called Bush’s little bus boy (that’s the kid that clears tables in a diner)at the time of the Iraq war.
Obama is just returning the favour.
I don’t see the problem with any Americans, or anyone else who doesn’t live in Scotland, giving their opinion and views on the independence debate – they’re entitled to their opinion and entitled to say what they think.
Obviously a no or yes vote won’t affect them to the extent it will people who live in Scotland, but nonetheless they’re welcome to give their views – as long as that doesn’t go over the line and involve them trying to pressurise or strongly persuade Scots to vote one way or the other.
I assume all the users on this site feel the same way?
“I can’t really be bothered copying examples from previous threads”
I wasn’t asking you to.
“rain has stopped so I’m back out to knock on doors”
Are you still pretending to be a Green supporter? Make sure you don’t give yourself away by attacking and abusing anyone who dares to praise or discuss the Green’s independence plans.
@Duggie
You don’t “discuss” at all. You pick holes in other peoples comments. I am yet to witness any discussion in reading your posts, generally I read sarcasm aimed at other posters on this site.
The ‘program’ of getting over the line and regaining independence. I have issues with the way the Yes campaign is being run, but I keep that to myself unless relevant or constructive. For the life of me, I can not see how you can consider constant attacks on the SNP or the FM, as helpful?
Quick look at the screen on my way out – Duggie Darling, do the same as me get out and win the vote then we can agree on many things xx
Duggie
Would it be kinder to suggest you aren’t a team player?
Never had Obama as a YES so no big deal. A three legged poodle not much use to him, so no surprise.
Foreign Minister of the Czech Republic
Foreign Minister of Denmark
President of the European Commission
President of the European Council
Foreign Minister of Sweden
Foreign Minister of Spain
Prime Minister of Spain
President of the United States (maybe?)
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
Queen Elizabeth II
When are we, finally, gonna collectively stand up as a people and say ENOUGH, we are not gonna be lectured and told, directly or sneakily, how the hell we’re gonna vote in this referendum, one way or the other, by people who don’t live here and have vested interests in the status quo? I’m f**king sick of being told “NO SCOTLAND” by people from outside this country whose opinion I never asked for, let alone respect.
The British are American poodles, who will gladly sacrifice their sons and daughters in illegal wars.
The Scottish government told Obama to fuck off when they demanded the Lockerbie bomber be handed over.
America telling other countries what they should and should not do.
Don’t you just love them.
“Would it be kinder to suggest you aren’t a team player?”
Are the Scottish Greens not a ‘team player’ when they criticise the SNP’s post-yes vote plans to push Scotland into a currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the Scottish people a say and without a mandate to do so?
Or are they standing up for their principles and belief in democracy and the sovereignty of the people of Scotland?
It is not necessary to back everything the SNP do with unquestioning devotion in order to support independence or indeed to win the referendum.
Sorry guys I didn’t do what I should have done…check the bloody name out…DUH! 😛
As far as I can see Duggie just copies then pastes tellen 1’s comments, either that or tellen 1 copies Duggie’s, from here, then posts them on the Guardian’s blog site.
@ Duggie, here we go, as they say in your America. The UKOK fudge machine starts a pumpin…
Duggie,the currency union,EU/NATO membership would last as long as the electorate allow it to.
I agree with you otherwise,i want our own currency,no NATO membership and EFTA membership and if the SNP aren’t going to do that then i vote for the party closest to my vision.
It’s called democracy.
Ah,…”Salmond dictating”
HOUSE!!
Duggie
If the Greens are playing party politics in the run-up to the vote, they should be ashamed of themselves. These are matters for after we regain independence and I would hope any serious politician would recognise this. Party aspiration over country. I think not mate.
Duggie,are you related to Norsewarrior by any chance?
Obama as neutral as walking into Burger King with a Big Mac
Folks – STEP AWAY FROM THE DUGGIE. It’s not worth the electric ink. Seriously, DO NOT RESPOND!
I’m no even gonna get started Jim, I’m awa to watch Max Keiser. 😉
Jim Thomson
I’ve said ma piece. 🙂
I may be imagining this as there are so many scare stories that after a while they all become like one massive glob of boredom but I was sure Obama had already given his opinion that he would prefer for Scotland to remain in the UK. I seem to recall that the First Minister sent an open letter, essentially, stating that Scotland wouldn’t stand in the way of the US when they reapplied to become a British colony.
I thought he’d taken the hint and realised that he was being a tad hypocritical given that America should be the last nation on earth to tell anyone that they shouldn’t get independence from England. It seems not but then again, do we really care what he thinks?
I have a lot of love and respect for the American people – I think they’re a tremendous people. But I really wish they’d tell their President to take the day off whenever he starts on interfering in other countries’ peaceful, democratic rights though.
Well, this makes my American trip a LOT more interesting. And I’m getting ready for Phoenix Comicon.
I’m going to be wearing a badge that says “Ask me anything about Scottish Independence.” Let’s see how that goes…
Poor old Obama. You could tell his heart wasn’t in it. But Cameron was staring intently, “mention united, say united”. So he did, qualified by how it looked “from the outside”.
We could offer a deal. As soon as the US agrees to be ruled from London, so will we.
Right folks, here we go
1, 2, and 3…..
I AGREE WITH DUGGIE
Right he’s gone now hasn’t he, no point in being here, we all agree with him don’t we?
Now what was it you were all blethering about tonight?
Seen this in the last hour after getting home from work.
To be honest, as time goes by, I’m becoming very bemused with Obama. Is he really trying to have a bad week. He’s done a very poor job of handling the Bergdahl situation. Now, he wants to interfere in the Scottish Referendum.
When Mehgrahi was released a few years back, Obama stepped into the situation, and though he didn’t denounce the Scots, it was clear to see that he was upset. At the time, it led to a few days of minor growls between America and Scotland. Even today, Mehgrahi is still considered public enemy number one, even though the evidence strongly suggests he was an innocent man.
Now, we have Obama once again stepping into a Scottish situation. If there is one thing that will make Scots growl, it is another nation dictating to us what we can and can’t do. Once more, Obama hasn’t denounced the Referendum, but once again, it is clear that he is not happy with the Scots.
What makes it worse from a Scottish point of view, and I’ll bet that there are quite a few ‘No’s out there will not be enamoured at Obama either; not because he could boost the Yes cause, but because he stands with Cameron; a Tory …and nothing will pee the Scots off more than being dictated to …than by a foreigner while a Tory nods in agreement. This won’t be forgotten by quite a few in both camps.
Watched Obama statement live.Appeared to be very uncomfortable.He should be pressed to
Clarify exactly where he stands on Scottish independence.
I asked the other day but did not get a reply
So for those of you who post on the Guardian (or anyone else who knows) is Duggie the same person who posts there as tellen1? They have remarkably similar styles and raise remarkably similar issues. That is why I ask
Liquid Lenny
are you staying with David Bowie? let us know how it goes.
We can YES
@roberto
As I have said elsewhere I think this is the deal: the UK supports American foreign wars and sends our soldiers to be killed for them; and dismantles our welfare state so that American corporates can move into the NHS and get a big slice of public money. In return the President occasionally makes anodyne statements about things which are causing the PM some difficulty
Some might think that is not a very equal exchange: but what do they know?
“the currency union,EU/NATO membership would last as long as the electorate allow it to”
You’re right up to a point – if we want out of those things then we’ll be able to, eventually.
But let’s face it, the currency union isn’t going to be some kind of informal wee agreement that we can leave whenever we want to – it will be a legally binding agreement that will have a minimum duration of at least 10 years – obviously it wouldn’t be in rUK’s (or Scotland’s for that matter) interests to agree to an unstable informal union that could collapse at any point.
So, even if we vote in 2016 for a party strongly opposed to it, then it won’t be able to do anything about getting us out of it.
“Sorry, Rev, but your link is beneath contempt.”
In what possible way?
Dear President Obama
For consistency I am sure you will now be urging the government of Eire to reconsider their independence from Britain and that you yourself will be urging the senate and congress to admit your own independence was a mistake and downgrade your status to that of a Devolved Assembly under Westminster overlordship.
This will of course necessitate the immediate adoption of European law, especially on Social and Employment laws.
I would hate for you to seem inconsistent so I await these imminent moves by you to avoid this terrible conclusion being drawn.
Yours, Muscleguy.
“He should be pressed to Clarify exactly where he stands on Scottish independence.”
He’s already clarified it, he said that its up to the people of Scotland, but that from an American point of view they have a “deep interest in making sure that one of the closest allies that we will ever have remains a strong, robust, united and effective partner”.
How much more clarity do you need?
Sitting offshore right now between 2 Scots who scoffed when the headline about Obama was trumpeted by the bbc.
I don’t know what their voting intentions are in the referendum, but I did get the impression that Obama’s intervention didn’t go down well.
@Fiona
You could be right, I only had 1 little dispute with tellen1 and none until now with Duggie so can’t be sure.
They both pretend to be Yes supporters act as if they support all the causes that decent people would fight for. Then try to undermine your argument by showing something you have said is contradictory and that you are then a liar.
To expose tellen1 I just searched for all his old posts on the Guardian and the lies or his supposed beliefs were all over the place except on the same thread.
They may not be the same person but are using the same modus operandi.
alexicon says:
Sitting offshore right now between 2 Scots who scoffed when the headline about Obama was trumpeted by the bbc.
I don’t know what their voting intentions are in the referendum, but I did get the impression that Obama’s intervention didn’t go down well.
Exactly mate …just as I said in my entry about 20 minutes ago. Both camps will remember this…
I DINNAE HAE A DREAM.
(c) Better Together / Blue State Digital
Keiser Report – footer “headline”: Cameron shakes Putin’s hand after Paris meeting.
Jings, I thought Pres Putin was a “bad” guy.
alexicon
I left a wee begging letter on your 15 mins of fame comment, the other day, so serendipity my well have just smiled in our direction.
Guys,
Duggie is trolling. If he has nothing to contribute, except to muddy the waters, then why entreat with him.
Ignore his posts, and he will go away eventually. It’s as simple as that.
“They both pretend to be Yes supporters”
I’ve no idea about this ‘tellend’, but you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to make that accusation about me – on the contrary, I’m one of the few people on this site consistently standing up for the sovereignty and self determination of the Scottish people.
“Then try to undermine your argument by showing something you have said is contradictory and that you are then a liar.”
Again, nowhere have I accused anyone of being a ‘liar’ or saying anything contradictory, all I do on this site express support for independence, and independence plans and policies – the only reason I attract opposition from the likes of you for doing so is because the version of independence I prefer is not the one espoused by the party you support.
Having said that, you certainly are a liar given your blatant lies about me with absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
Thanks, Thepnr.
Tellen1 is definitely a troll, and that is all he is. But they are very similar in content and style: so if Duggie is not tellen1 he will do till tellen1 comes along. 🙂
Obama’s so weak, he couldn’t even start a war in the Middle East. His intervention is less relevant than Kermit’s.
Drunken Hobo,
I agree, I was pretty gutted about Kermit.
Duggie: nonetheless they’re [people from outside Scotland / politicians from other countries] welcome to give their views – as long as that doesn’t go over the line and involve them trying to pressurise or strongly persuade Scots to vote one way or the other.
I assume all the users on this site feel the same way?
Totally. If they support Scottish independence, it generates Yes votes. If they don’t, it generates more Yes votes.
Win-win really.
How do we turn this intervention around. The msm and the unionist’s will gloat over this upto Sept 18th. This day has not been a good one for me. I didn’t see this coming.
How does that work Duggie, in an independent Scotland, unlike the UK, will a new government be bound by the decisions of it’s predecessor?
I didn’t see this coming.
I thought it would be late August. Currency one really threw me as that was so unpredictably early.
Yes is doing much better than expected for this stage.
@TheItalianJob – I don’t think it’s been too bad as any sane person can look at it and see how much of a PR stunt it was. If Obama had been in Washington and came out with this then yes I agree it would be a blow but as he has said it while standing next to that sneevling, feartie, dishface, bawbag Cameron then I think we cam all see it for what it was..
“The msm and the unionist’s will gloat over this upto Sept 18th. This day has not been a good one for me. I didn’t see this coming.”
Who cares, let them gloat.
Surely no one would be stupid enough to vote ‘no’ because Obama doesn’t want seem to want us independent?
Likewise surely no one would be stupid enough to vote ‘yes’ because the Tories win the Newark by-election, as I saw someone claiming would happen on another site earlier.
The vote will be won or lost based on the merits and benefits of independence alone, not on what the American president thinks or whether the Tories win an English by-election.
Due to overcast skies the light is going so back to see what the craic is, lots of folk we spoke to tonight not impressed by the perceived spin on Obama, no surprise there – but I’m somewhat amused that the wee yappie thing is chasing its tail rather than doing the legwork.
He should be made to hand his Nobel Peace Prize over to Alex Salmond.
Damn my boss has been posting again
I guess that means we now have the support of all the republicans in America!
Craig Murray thinks Obama is using SS speak
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Charles Dickens had second sight. He looked into the future, saw Douglas Alexander and modelled Uriah Heep on him. I can understand the Head Perfect uriah-heeping over the headmaster, but the headmaster of another school? That’s too much uriah even for Loyal Head Perfect.
@ Fiona
I (too) have just trawled through several hundred of tellen1’s posts on the Guardian, including many that are word for word the same as duggie’s posts on here, looking for explicit statements of his voting intention. The best I could find (before I got fed up) is this, from 30 May:
“On the contrary, I’ve stated in the past that I’d be more inclined to vote yes if it was real independence that was on offer – for example the Scottish Green’s independence plans, which include a Scottish currency and full Scottish control of our fiscal policy and interest rates, rather than being economically shackled to rUK with their central bank controlling everything.”
Notice the “more inclined”, which could mean anything – from 90% likely moving to 100%, or from 10% to 51%. To an outside observer, this could look as if he’s anti-independence, but he doesn’t actually say so. There are loads of similar, quite clever, near-admissions that don’t really commit either way. So it may well be that he has never exactly and explicitly said he is against – on the Guardian he hasn’t said he’s for, either.
Notice also that here, duggie refers to “tellend”, who indeed does not post on CiF.
My conclusion is that, if tellen1 is not duggie, one is a fervent admirer of the other and regularly copies and pastes his posts, or they are both copying some third party.
Some of the points he/they raise(s) are actually worth discussing, so it is a real shame that they are presented in a way which prevents that.
@Bob W , @Duggie
Exactly.
Can a future government really can be held to decisions of previous ones?
If a Scottish party is overwhelmingly elected on an anti-EU platform, then we will be leaving.
But right now, Scottish people are already EU citizens.
And the easiest way to get the broadest YES support is to keep things as similar as possible at first, and not divide the electorate on controversial issues.
If the NO campaigns main attack point is ‘uncertainty’, then they would have a field day if every major issue was up in the air until further referendums..
@scottish_skier
Yes the currency card was played early. We do expect a lot more of the same upto Sept 18.
It’s just frustrating sometimes trying to get the No uniformed to seek the facts even when you present it to them.
“How does that work Duggie, in an independent Scotland, unlike the UK, will a new government be bound by the decisions of it’s predecessor?”
An independent Scotland, just like every single other democratic sovereign state in the world, will obviously be bound by international treaties and agreements between two sovereign states agreed under international law, which would include the currency union.
New governments aren’t bound by internal laws that their predecessors enact – i.e. someone could repeal the smoking ban in Scotland if they wanted – but they’re certainly bound by international treaties agreed by their predecessors.
To use an analogy – say a company signs a legal contract with another company, but the first company’s shareholders then vote to replace the board. Do you think the new board could then simply tear up the contract and say ‘well we didn’t agree it, it was our predecessors’?
“So, even if we vote in 2016 for a party strongly opposed to it, then it won’t be able to do anything about getting us out of it.”
Sigh. No government can bind the hands of its successors. If a 2016 SG wanted out of the currency union, who’s going to stop it? Is the rUK going to send in tanks to make sure the corner shop trades in Sterling?
Besides which, what’s your actual fucking point? “I don’t want to use Sterling, so I’ll vote No to stay in the UK and thereby KEEP USING STERLING”? You’re giving me a fucking headache, and I’m awfully close to deciding that that’s what you’re TRYING to do.
Rev Stu,
You have to do something about this.
It is getting very boring.
Is this Wings over Scotland or Duggie over Scotland?
To be slightly more on-topic than I usually manage, this has just appeared on another site:
Jackie Baillie MSP has just tweeted
“Can I politely say to all the cybernats who spend endless amounts of time abusing me just one word- Obama”
“New governments aren’t bound by internal laws that their predecessors enact – i.e. someone could repeal the smoking ban in Scotland if they wanted – but they’re certainly bound by international treaties agreed by their predecessors.”
No, they’re not. You can walk away from anything. There may be consequences, of course, but you can always do it.
crazycat
This is what Jackie was referring to http://tinyurl.com/q56qqpw
“No government can bind the hands of its successors”
It can if its an international treaty/agreement with another sovereign state agreed under international law.
“If a 2016 SG wanted out of the currency union, who’s going to stop it?”
International law, and Scotland’s status as a democratic part of the world. Unless you think we could happily go around tearing up international agreements signed under international law with other states whenever we want, and that wouldn’t damage our reputation or standing?
“Besides which, what’s your actual fucking point?”
I’ve said before on this site that I plan to vote yes regardless, but my point is that the Scottish people should have the right to decide the course we want our country to take from day 1, including whether we want Scotland to form a currency union or not.
@crazycat – best to ignore her, she just looking for a rise
“A treaty is an agreement under international law entered into by actors in international law, namely sovereign states and international organizations…Treaties can be loosely compared to contracts: both are means of willing parties assuming obligations among themselves, and a party to either that fails to live up to their obligations CAN BE HELD LIABLE UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW”.
Write to Obama and ask him when the American colonies are rejoining the British Empire.
If this Duggie crap carries on I will just have to get my BBC licence back and start watching TV again.
It is that bad !
I was expecting the American intervention to be in late August and not at the beginning of the official campaign period. BT after all have had Blue State Digital helping them for a while now. They must be running out of original scare stories by now.
Rev dear, could you create a “sin-bin” for the likes of wee “Duggie”, then we could play with the wee mongrel there, rather than do it here?
We should get an online petition up and sign YES for everyone who signs it then head up a letter with a copy of the Declaration of Arbroath and send it to Obama.
With a nice letter explaining why we sent it, a few thousand signatures should be a sensible target, the more the better.
Paula
Do as I do, ignore and skip to the next comment.
I think Duggie just agreed with you there Rev. 🙂
I left a wee begging letter on your 15 mins of fame comment, the other day, so serendipity my well have just smiled in our direction.
Sorry Cameron your comment isn’t there.
Duggie reminds me so much like norsewarrior. Just saying like.
@ Croompenstein
I just thought it was rather funny! It was posted by someone who is – how shall I put it? – very unsympathetic to independence, so he presumably thought it was a stunning bit of repartee. There was a reply, but by the time I’d posted here and gone back to the other site to check developments, both posts had been deleted!
alexicon
Bummer. I probably put up about a dozen comments and thought I’d generated a wee bit of support. Ah well.
I would imagine that the FM will write a letter to President Obama to ask him why he sought to intervene in Scotland’s democratic referendum
People FFS; DON’T FEED THE FUCKING TROLL!
DON’T EVEN MENTION THE FUCKER’S NAME.
Sorry; but you know what’s going on and you know how to deal with it. Go back to first principles.
Brotyboy
Exactly!
“Solidarity with Scotland” : Our legitimate right to support an independent Scotland (Stop International Project Fear!)
http://pilaraymara.blogspot.com.es/2014/06/solidarity-with-scotland-our-legitimate.html
@ Brotyboy
You are correct.
There are loads of ways to terminate a Treaty.
https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201155/volume-1155-I-18232-English.pdf
Articles 48-64 show many of them.
Basically,the Treaty failing to do what it set out to would be ground enough for its suspension.
Marcia dear, have you got your pair? (sorry wee bit O/T here)
https://www.facebook.com/ScottishIndependenceForFamilies/photos/a.561859063921092.1073741829.530880570352275/611510562289275/?type=1&theater
Paula
If I wore them I would get vertigo. 🙂
‘when asked by the BBC’
Very telling.
Oh God, it’s Ground-Dug Day again.
STOP FEEDING THE FUCKING TROLL!
Ok let’s keep the ba’ on the ground here. Obama has probably had Cameron in his ear since he stepped off Air Force One.. “Please, please, please say something to support the ‘no’ campaign”. He has duly obliged but you have to say it was hardly, by a long way, the most impassioned or convincing endorsement of ‘No’. To me he was saying what Cameron asked him for, probably in return for backing the US in its next three military follies
Predictably the MSM are treating it like its a hammer blow to Yes, which of course it isn’t remotely, In reality if he had suggested anything close to support for Yes, that would indeed have been dynamite.
No, come the 19th of September Obama will be asked again and will of course say ‘blah blah..looking forward to working with our new ally .. blah blah.. special relationship blah blah”.
Looking forward to that.
Mary
Shhhhhh, dont waken the … shhh.
@Brotyboy
Quite
Some forums many moons ago had the facility ignore up to three named posters whose posts were blanked out oneself saved an awful lot of scrolling past inane drivel.
Well, so glad it is ‘All about Sammin’.
Even in the least SNP friendly / Yes pollster, satisfaction rating on the up and if people were actually voting in September on Sammin, once again it would be a Yes.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.slideshare/scottishpublicopinionmonitor-june2014-140604075225-phpapp02%2F95%2Fslide-6-638.jpg
Nice that Patrick Harvie is increasingly popular. May soon pull ahead of Lamont who is becoming increasingly unpopular along with Rennie and Davidson.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.slideshare/scottishpublicopinionmonitor-june2014-140604075225-phpapp02%2F95%2Fslide-8-638.jpg
Pegasus Bridge Café; 40 plus years later, I wonder if the German machine gun position is still there, complete with the setting ‘Feuer’?
And is Madame still passing on info as to how to cook artichoke hearts?
Up with the Red Hackle.
In isolation, Obama’s comments aren’t that big a deal but he’d know exactly the effect it would have in the British media and frankly has no right trying to sway the democratic process in a foreign country in that way. We’re not in a period of turmoil, there’s no threats of coups that need the American World Police to stick their neb in to – it’s a legitimate, democractic debate (in theory) and no business of Obama’s as he himself says. Anyway, you’d think after the Iraq farce (a little euphemism) amongst many other things, any right-thinking person would see “in America’s interests” as an incentive to do whatever the opposite is.
With regards to the”team players” thing further up…I was reading a pretty good article on Bella Caledonia earlier which suggested that the Greens and others casting up arguments over technicalities, if you will, is counter-productive, that having internal debates in the “Yes” camp is wasting energy when the real goal, the only goal for now, is independence. I never really thought of it like that before, but it’s a good point and one I’d agree with totally. We can debate the finer points of what an independent Scotland looks like after it happens – to paraphrase Tommy Sheridan, it’s more important to get the keys to our dream home than it is to buy the Dulux at this point.
@cynicalHighlander
A financial forum I have spent time on allows you to put posters on an ‘Ignore’ list.
My iggy list on that forum numbers 247.
@scottish_skier
Second graph is the most interesting, the only 2 rising are Salmond and Harvie, the other 4 are on a downward trend for the last 4 months.
A BBC diplomat correspondent asks the question, primed no doubt by UK Govt. Obama answers the question no doubt steered by Cameron during private conversations.
all very orchestrated.
How is it that every time cameron attend a summit some head of state or foreign diplomat voices an opinion on Scost Indy.
Anyone find it interesting that the NOPE leaflets were printed so fast. Did BT know in advance what Obama was going say at the G7. Dark forces at work
Bummer. I probably put up about a dozen comments and thought I’d generated a wee bit of support. Ah well.
Sorry I thought you meant my 15 minutes of fame comment on wings.
I haven’t checked back on that sight yet, been too busy at work.
Thanks very much for the support.
@scottish_skier
You know how to raise our spirits. Thanks.
S_S
Interesting that Rennie polls badly from the 60% who gave a rating. Salmond’s positive rating will be a worry to BT.
I was just thinking that about Obama’s comments and it occurred to me that anything he has to say is a hell of a lot less important than anything I have to say because he doesn’t live here and he doesn’t get a Vote.
Time to write to Obama to tell him Scotland is happy to see his missiles stored in Southampton, or Portsmouth; he will still have England as pet poodle to the US of Amnesia’s international terrorist interests.
No one should be shocked or surprised at Obama’s remarks. The only surprise is the timing. I was pretty certain he’d have been candid closer to the plebiscite.
Dear old BBC gave him his cue.
I was just thinking that about Obama’s comments and it occurred to me that anything he has to say is a hell of a lot less important than anything I have to say because he doesn’t live here and he doesn’t get a Vote.
#1 comment.
Only 2 good things ever came out of the USA: peanut butter and Gibson guitars.
Wow the MSM have sure got the dick out over this, they can hardly contain themselves. They were filming the Bitters handing out their shitey Nope Obama leaflets in Glasgow.
FFS why can’t they just admit it’s a PR stunt and that sane Scottish people won’t buy it. Obama had no right to intervene in the way he has, when asked he should have answered that it is none of his or his country’s business and that it is for the people of Scotland to decide..but he didn’t
Believe Obama is no lover of Great Britains empirical past. I think his family had some disagreements with the old colonial masters in Nairobi.
Believe I heard this on tv when I was once in USA.
Jackie Baillie bigging up Obama having his arm twisted up his back by David Cameron and the BBC. Desperate stuff or what.
The phrase ‘get a life’ does not even come close.
Free Scotland
You’re not a jazz fan then? 🙂
Thepnr says:
Mary
Shhhhhh, dont waken the … shhh.
Thepnr, the correct phrase is ” don’t waken the *inaudible mumble.” 😛
Those remarks from Obama on Scotland were not spontaneous. Came after an informal request from No 10 DS.
We knew that anyway.
I had only heard this on the radio so far. Now that I’ve just watched it I think this is another blunder by BT.
It was so obviously contrived, if Cameron and Maigrit Curran thinks Scots won’t see through this they are deluded.
Blair McDougall just mentioned Bowie hahaha. Point proven.
#Scotnight – Rona trying her hardest there to spin the issue in favour of No
Duggie
You’re aiming for a No vote on some kind of technicality. The wonder of this campaign is that people from all walks of life, from all strata of society and from all age groups are getting behind a Yes vote. And remaining disciplined in that aim.
After a Yes we can decide everything. Simple. It’s a long game we are playing.
You oppose independence and haunt this page like a fucking ghoul. I understand that. We are winning though, and we will win. Keep this farcical charade up though – it may hone your skills for the doorstep. You may find it a tough gig though, tougher as time passes.
“Why is Salmond dictating which countries an independent Scotland will be friends with?”
I presume this is a pastiche on trolling. Fuck me. ENOUGH ALREADY.
I talked to a South African taxi driver tonight – will be voting Yes and almost everyone he talks to is a Yes. He has a vote. Obama doesnae. Do you?
Let’s settle this old school: arm wrestle. If you win I’ll vote green for the rest of my life.I win: you vote Yes. Deal?
@Lesley Anne
Brilliant 🙂
I aim to please Thepnr. 😛
My faith has been restored by that American lassie on Scotland Tonight..superb..aw naw here’s wee Dougie aw naw
Well im actually breathing a sigh of relief – compared to most of America’s “interventions” across the globe, we’ve got off very lightly indeed 🙂
ps “Duggie” is Norsewarrior and he will turn this site into the Scotsman forum if firm action isn’t taken.
So pleased to be voting Yes and Green – best of both worlds Tam Jardine (smiley winky thingy)
CameronB Brodie.
Okay, call it 3. A jazz quartet with a nice Gretsch guitar is hard to beat.
A bit of over reaction regarding Obama and we should just keep focussed on the main issues. YES WE CAN. Visiting politicians will not do anything but support the host nation and will not embarrass a political ally he or she is sharing a platform with. Of course it was a BBC dirty trick / spoiler and expect many more of them of the next 100 days.
O/T I see John McTernan is over on the North British Hootsman urging us all to “grow up” and buy England tops, St George’s Cross flags and support England in the World Cup.
Well that’s made my mind up…. ABE.
Watch out for the media linking Obama’s predictable remark getting tied to a D-day veteran, assuredly a Jock – a brave soldier who fought for “Britain.”
Obama’s comments are completely cynical. He has no, zilch, interest in the happiness of the people of Scotland.
Jenniffer Erikson didna play the game wie Shareen Naganaunty
good on her,dont take the horse’s tae water Shareen you’ll
end up in the drink.
Apologies for feeding. Pissed off with a week of this shite. Rev I’m driftin. Mibbe give it a rest for a couple of days.
Night all x
Free Scotland
CameronB Brodie,
Careful, you”re heading into ‘what have the Romans ever done for us’ territory.
Just watched Rona on Scotland Tonight. I’m not sure, is STV neutral on the Independence debate. Yeah, I’m taking the piss.
DON’T FEED THE FUCKING TROLL!
I’m quite prepared to carry on saying this until I get banned.
Free Scotland
OK, so now your beginning to open up. Good. Now, what about the Blues? 🙂
@Free Scotland
I had to flog my ’72 Sunburst Les Paul few years back, broke my heart. I agree, great guitars… is Gibson not a Scottish name ? lol then in an indie Scotland they should be duty free !!
MARTIN LUTHER KING.
HE DARED TO DREAM OF A FREE PEOPLE & BECAUSE OF HIS DREAM
OBAMA SEEN THE PROMISED LAND .
Obama’ grandmother is Scots. Will she be birlin?
SoS goat ma STV presenters mixed up in previous post.
@Onwards
“And the easiest way to get the broadest YES support is to keep things as similar as possible at first, and not divide the electorate on controversial issues.
If the NO campaigns main attack point is ‘uncertainty’, then they would have a field day if every major issue was up in the air until further referendums..”
This. Absolutely this. My view is that it is fundamental for the voting population to see that on day 1 of an iScotland we have lost nothing of what we currently have. The world hasn’t ended. The sky hasn’t fallen in. Pigs remain in their stys, rooted to the ground. Your employer will still pay you in Sterling and the corner shop will still accept it when you nip in for a carton of milk on the way home. Your relatives living in England or elsewhere are still your family not some evil bogeymen.
And then, on day 2, we can come together and start getting rid of the baggage that holds us back and create a Scotland that it’s people want to live in.
Sorry if this has been mentioned above, Gideon Rachman, the Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent at the Financial Times Tweeted earlier “Those remarks from Obama on Scotland were not spontaneous. Came after an informal request from No 10.”
Lots of you have been re-tweeting it already, but for those of you not on twitter but want the link for other cybernatting purposes it is here:
https://twitter.com/gideonrachman/status/474609266717102080
Rev, I have not had time to read all the comments, so sorry if someone has already mentioned this, because I smell something possibly rotten, it regards the speed in which the bitter together mob came out with that poster, looks like they made sure Brian “trust me I’m a journalist ” Taylor had one to flash on his Reporting Scotland spot , I just wonder did they have a prior nod that this could be the result of a question at a news question and answer session, any sleuths on here?.
achnababan says:
Obama’ grandmother is Scots. Will she be birlin?
Oh ma gawd not ANOTHER yank with Scottish ancestry … remember Trump anyone? 😉
(yes I know there is a significant proportion of yanks with Scottish heritage. 🙂 )
@Tam Jardine
No probs; You’re pissed off I’m just pissed. We want the same thing.
When has the US ever got involved in the internal politics of a country which dowsn’t have vast mineral / oil reserves. If he is supporting the No side we have to ask ‘whats in it for the US’
Kind of shines a massive probing spotlight on the claims that the oil is running out doesn’t it.
Imagine that bum obomber sticking his men in , that bum signs excecutive orders every week allowing his milatary to bomb the shit out of various parts of the world, he should piss off back to the hood
I cannot believe he said that,are you sure his job is to spread democracy? After all that Russia/Putin ‘the days of big countries redrawing borders of smaller ones is over’ kind of stuff?
Just had to say did anyone else notice in Obama’s statement he says ” but ultimately these are decisions that are “be” made by the folks there” now for an intelligent man this sentence is not making sense , I can’t help but think he was actually about to say that these are decisions “better” off made by the folks there.
I think deep down even Obama knows he should not be interfering.
Paula Rose
I want those shoes, I would risk the altitude sickness for them.
????
“Nice that Patrick Harvie is increasingly popular. May soon pull ahead of Lamont”
What are you talking about? Harvie is already well ahead of Lamont, he’s the most popular party leader in Scotland.
What your graph does show is the huge drop in satisfaction Salmond has suffered over the past three years – most of the other party leaders follow a fairly straight line of support with not much deviation, whereas Salmond was up at well over +30 back in Aug 2011 – far ahead of anyone else – and has now dropped massively to just over or under zero.
It certainly gives Harvie a good argument to say he should be a lot more involved in the yes campaign than he is currently, and he should certainly take part in any national TV debates on the issue.
there is a significant proportion of yanks with Scottish heritage.
Damn! My grandmother is English, the other Sicilian.
Now I may well be wrong but is not the unwarranted intervention of Obama a grave breech of diplomatic protocol?
An introduction to a course on Diplomatic Protocol begins : –
“Diplomatic Protocol involves etiquette on a local and international scale, and the practice of good manners on a daily basis. It evolved as a result of old traditions, when in the early days of civilization hospitality was extended to an arriving guest.
Today it is particularly important because it not only covers the ceremonial rules that are followed during official functions and how to behave on these special occasions, but it also provides a set of established rules of courteousness that are to be respected in society.
This course introduces participants to the ceremonial aspect of protocol procedures, behavior of etiquette, rules of courteousness in society, and respect for precedence. It also helps business executives master the basics of etiquette and get a better understanding of multicultural manners”.
For the president of a foreign country to impose his views upon another state’s business is bad enough but his intervention affects four other countries to which he is a foreign political figure. He cannot side with one of the four without offending at least one of the others. This intervention is inexcusable.
Well, well. That’s it then. Their biggest cannon.
The.
President.
of.
the.
United.
States.
Boy, are they getting nervous. We’ve now had Vladimir and Barak chucked at us. Who next? Xi Jinping for a full house? Obama didn’t look very comfortable, but done what he had to do to be seen to be helping the British PM.
I think we are winning folks. Dinnae fash yersels. I reckon we must be at the crossover point judging by the panic I see in the No camp. They have the brakes FULL on, but the momentum keeps the wagon rolling.
And what a laugh that Ali Darling is, is he no? He he, inaudiblemumble Kim Jong-il.
@David Smith
“safely into the Moray Firth a week before your tame stooges on London notice.”
They wouldn’t know until the SMS from the fishing boat came in.
@Taranaich
“Ask me anything about Scottish Independence.”
They might regret that 😉
@Free Scotland
“a nice Gretsch guitar is hard to beat.”
A Gretsch drum kit is better 😀
Don’t feed the FUCKER.
“And the easiest way to get the broadest YES support is to keep things as similar as possible at first, and not divide the electorate on controversial issues.”
And you don’t think the electorate could be divided by the fact that the SNP are planning to push us into EU and Nato membership and a currency union without giving us a say?!
I think maybe no.10 asking him to say it was the breach of diplomacy,as a guest,he may not have felt able to decline. Still,he could have said what Cameron says when challenged to debate the First Minister,”It’s a matter for the Scottish people alone to decide”.
Its official, Nev of call centre fame is in fact a class 1 dick. BBC QT. Just now. What a nosh.
Aw naw, it’s Ground-Dug Day again.
Finding it hard to keep up with these threads, so excuse me asking, but…
What’s the latest on Mumblegate?
I listened to every minute of the first hour of Newsdrive (4-5 p.m.) and it wasn’t mentioned.
Did it come up in the second hour, or on either of the 10.30 telly progs?
I think Obama looked decidedly Uncomfortable. Perhaps even a bit unhappy. He did what he did, yet I feel he was under pressure to do this by advisers, and Cameron almost hanging over his shoulder. A lot of Americans will not be happy either.I am certainly not.
X-Sticks Boy, are they getting nervous.
You make a great point there.
A No vote sends Scotland back to obscurity, save for the occasional actor making a Hollywood movie, or tartan is incorporated into a textile designer’s latest collection.
Here we are getting attention from chefs, chief cooks and bottle washers, and Wee Douglas Alexander asks us to believe we won’t get such attention unless we sit under England’s shade. Permanently.
Hoo haar!
@Sinky: Oh… how about a game of Referendum Top Trumps? With so many connections on this site, I’m sure someone could ask the Pope to comment on Scotland’s chance at independence with regards to improving Child Poverty and Social fairness. This would trump Camperon’s Obama card, or get Trump involved in it – i’m sure he’d love to get an Obama kick in…naw wait, scrub that one! 🙂
The desperation of some posters on this site to try to keep it an SNP-only wee love-in with no deviation from unquestioning devotion to the SNP’s version of ‘independence’, and no one allowed to dare to discuss or promote the independence plans and policies of other parties like the Greens is actually quite disturbing.
Luckily the key principle of the site is that it welcomes open debate and different views and isn’t affiliated or linked to the SNP, so it will continue to allow those of us who support other independence parties to have our say without being stifled and suppressed by the SNP devotees.
Labour/ Tory and the BBC are all in it together the biggest dung heap ever created by them for them and we have allowed it to be formed, time to bury it for good in more ways than one.
@Duggie
Let’s be clear.
We know that you know we know what your game is.
Take a tellen
Cynical Highlander says Labour/Tory and the BBC are all in it together
Without Scotland the Jock versions fear their jobs, careers, pensions, and affiliations are in jeopardy. They are fighting for survival.
What are you talking about? Harvie is already well ahead of Lamont, he’s the most popular party leader in Scotland.
No, it doesn’t work like that. NET SAT has to be read with care. If only 16% of the population had heard of the Skier Popular Peoples Front for Indy I could have a net sat of +16 and beat Harvie.
Harvie is very popular amongst those who have actually heard of him. 45% of people don’t know him enough to give an opinion according to MORI.
However, those who have heard of him are growing fast and that’s good.
I like him.
Stop being silly.
I see that the swivel eyed loons are trying to get noticed again lol,always seems to pop up when something appears to go against the yes campaign. Doesn’t work.
I love America and I will not descend to the level of Dougie Alexander and get orgasmic at therospect of the leader of a respected nation being perceived as doing down my country.
Scotland will decide and today’s American and Swedish contribution will simply be seen as Cameron begging for support as they see the private polling showing YESin the lead.
I’ve just realised, I’ve got the loss of Mumblegate from today’s news programmes sussed out. Mumblegate was not doing Cameron and his UKOK party much good other than showing them up for a bunch of Muppets and they had to get off this track. The question of course was how to divert everyone away from Mumblegate. Then out of the blue along comes el Presidente! What a choice moment to arrive. Excuse me El Presidente would mind ever so much saying how much Scotland should stay with rest of UK, we’d be ever so appreciative. It would certainly help us out of a dicky wee predicament we seem to have got ourselves into. Next war you go into just give us a call! 😉
Duggie, loyalty to your own party is one thing but your hatred of the SNP is starting to feel a bit like JoLa.
There is indeed a lot of SNP support here. There is also support for Labour for indy and SSP. But I’ve never seen anyone come on and trash the Green Party, you should show the same courtesy.
You are very hostile, this is why you are unpopular, not because of your green credentials.
I know, I fed him. I’m sorry everyone else.
@ scottish_skier
I will reiterate Brotyboy’s plea. Duggie is a troll very similar to a troll who posts at CiF. I think it is the same person, but it doesn’t much matter. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by talking to him. Nothing
Do not feed
I did warn you.
I’m off to bed.
Marcia says:
5 June, 2014 at 10:03 pm
Paula
If I wore them I would get vertigo. 🙂
Marcia don’t you mean horizontal!
Just returned from the opening of an exhibition of Mexican textile culture, held here in London. Various celebs running about in Mexican attire – no idea Zandra Rhodes was so tiny until I almost trod on her – the mariachi band was excellent.
Viva independencia Escocesa!
“loyalty to your own party is one thing but your hatred of the SNP”
I don’t ‘hate’ the SNP in the slightest, I’m opposed to their plan to push Scotland into the currency union and EU/Nato membership without giving the people of Scotland a say and without them having a mandate to do so – that doesn’t equate to ‘hatred’ of them.
Just as you and others are no doubt opposed to some of the Green’s plans and policies – that doesn’t mean you ‘hate’ them.
If the SNP were going to give the people of Scotland a say on a currency union and EU/Nato membership then I would fully support them for doing so and praise them for it.
The USA record on States democratically seceding from the Union isn’t good. INVASION !!!!!
@Brotyboy –
Hope you catch this before you go – please, please don’t let it get to you mister.
Can you imagine how sad it must be to spend one’s time on such negative shite?
We’re doing something that these people cannot even begin to get their tiny minds around, so take some solace from this – when we win, their lives will be even emptier than they are right now.
David Cameron, the BBC and the No Campaign have basically used an obviously reluctant Obama as a puppet pulling his strings, with the clear intent on using the media to make as much out of it as possible.
I don’t expected any better from the unionists, but disappointed with Obama who looked uncomfortable with the whole facade and probably with the thought of selling himself out.
And Duggie, please note that you are afforded opportunity to comment adversley in a fashion that is not available to pro indi posters on other sites.
With this in mind it is my absolute pleasure to anounce that you are in my opinion a complete dick and troll.
So what do we think: 22,000 or lower?
Janet’s Scotland
BBC Two, Tuesday 10th June, 21:00
Writer and broadcaster Janet Street-Porter comes to Scotland to find out what the referendum is all about – what lies behind this historic vote, and what are the key issues. And she does it the way she knows best – sampling three of Scotland’s most famous walks and talking to some colourful characters along the way. On her travels in the Borders, the Central Belt and the North East of Scotland, Janet takes in some stunning scenery – and a wide range of views from a variety of age groups and sections of the voting public.
Janet Street-Porter @The_Real_JSP
My new pal Jessie Rae! Filming in the beautiful Borders x
https://twitter.com/The_Real_JSP/status/445558546462425088/photo/1
London cabbie in favour of Scotland’s autonomy. “Anything which sticks it to Etonian wide boys assuming they are born to rule is fine my me, mate.”
He said a lot more in the time my cab got stuck in the rush hour at Trafalgar Square running up a painful fare on a short journey to £28 plus tip. Sheesh.
Grouse Beater
I hope you didn’t mention the Zapatistas and the North American Free Trade Agreement, in the same breath. 😉
Will Black @WillBlackWriter · 15 Mar 2012
How out of touch is Janet Street-Porter that she thinks Scotland needing new stamps is a key obstacle to independence? #bbcqt
https://twitter.com/WillBlackWriter/status/180427864632594434
Janet takes in some stunning scenery
Scotland, forever England’s weekend picnic.
“please note that you are afforded opportunity to comment adversley”
This site is pro-independence, not a single solitary one of my comments has been adverse to independence, so there’s clearly no reason why I wouldn’t be allowed to comment on this site even if it did have a policy of banning people who criticised independence.
You really need to understand that questioning or even criticising the SNP’s version of independence is NOT the same thing as criticising or questioning independence itself, and that people who do so are NOT automatically against independence – otherwise the Scottish Greens and most of the other independence parties would also be ‘against independence’ too, which they quite clearly aren’t.
Rab the Doubter,
Off the top of my head WW1, WW2, the Balkans and Ireland. Please let’s not be anti-American just because their President opened his yaw to interfere in matters that don’t concern him because one of his political buddies asked him to. The Americans don’t like it when he does that any more than we do.
Obama’s father was a Kenyan freedom fighter.
Some of the worst atrocities carried out by the British colonialists happened in Kenya.
Obama’s American ancestors fought for freedom from British rule, and for democracy.
There is no difference left between Mr Pig and Mr Man anymore.
OT
Anyone fancy attending – This Week BBC Andrew Neil programme looking for audience members for recorded show In Edinburgh July 10th….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21929412
Cameron I hope you didn’t mention the Zapatistas
Too late, Cameron.
Truth to tell; after five margaritas, and something else that was faintly like a smokey liquour, I was whooping up a storm toasting Viva Zapata with the local London gauchos.
“Can you imagine how sad it must be to spend one’s time on such negative shite?”
I feel for you. Rather than spending all your time negatively attacking and abusing anyone who dares to question or criticise the SNP, why don’t you try doing what I and many others on this site do – positively promote and publicise the benefits of independence, stand up for democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people, and express support for the independence policies and plans of the party you support.
by craig Murray on June 5, 2014 in Uncategorized
Actually just read that Obama quote again:
“we obviously have a deep interest in making sure that one of the closest allies we will ever have remains a strong, robust, united and effective partner”
If the United States truly believes it has a deep interest in making sure that Scotland does not become independent, we can be quite certain that America will be pulling out all the stops to make sure that No wins. The language is the language of intelligence service tasking memoranda, which Obama is consciously or unconsciously reproducing. I have personally been involved in a great deal of intelligence service tasking. Intelligence service resources, both personnel and financial, are deployed to a greater or lesser extent to a task according to an assessment of the depth of national interest involved. If Obama has decided the US has a deep interest in the result of the Scottish independence campaign, we can expect hidden interference at Ukrainian levels.
Anyone fancy attending This Week BBC Andrew Neil prog?
I’d be too busy counting his Barnett Fair – hair transplants to keep track of the discussion.
@ Duggie
Nice try on the divide and conquer tactics, attempting to sow seeds of mistrust between the Yes parties.
Unfortunately for you, folks on this site can spot a cuckoo a mile off. You just can’t hide it, y’see? The pattern of arguments, the specific vocabulary used, the repetitive references to currency, EU and Nato, the deconstruction of quotes – they identify you as surely as a DNA test.
Wings is a broad church and we’re prepared to give everybody’s views a fair airing – but it’s obvious when somebody is masquerading. You stick out like an alligator at a vegan convention.
If Obama has decided the US has a deep interest in the result of the Scottish independence campaign, we can expect hidden interference at Ukrainian levels.
True. They already sent in Adrian Mole, (aged 13 and 3/4) the man-boy we know as Douglas Alexander. he’s the USA’s drone.
“You really need to understand that questioning or even criticising the SNP’s version of independence is NOT the same thing as criticising or questioning independence itself”
Duggie, it is you who needs to understand that constantly criticising the SNP plays right into the hands of the No campaign.
You are not even making constructive criticisms of the SNP.
It is not the SNP’s version of independence that will prevail. The SNP cannot legally bind an independent Scotland to anything between 19th September 2014 to March 2016.
As has been pointed out to you countless times, the people of an independent Scotland will vote in 2016 for the party whose manifesto they like most.
If you are genuinely in favour of independence, change the record. If you are not, stop pretending.
“Nice try on the divide and conquer tactics, attempting to sow seeds of mistrust between the Yes parties.”
In what way am I apparently trying to sow ‘seeds of mistrust’ between the yes parties?!
My arguments are based almost entirely on what the Scottish Greens themselves say in their own version of the white paper – namely that the SNP do not have a mandate to push Scotland into their preferred policies after a yes vote without asking the people of Scotland first.
If I’m engaging in ‘divide and rule’ tactics then so are the Greens.
This clause was considered unnecessary and so was removed from the…..
Queen’s Speech on the Opening of Parliament:
“My Government has been told on pain of death to make no effing mention of more powers for Scotland in this session of Parliament despite all the promises made to my subjects only as late as this week – so sucks boo to you Scotties!”
Obama would prefer a ‘strong’ UK, seems from his speech that he isn’t at all clued up on the domestic failures of current UK setup. And of course, what the USA gets from UK suits them down to the ground so his opinion is naturally opposed to upsetting the USA benefits of the UK. I can accept that he has an opinion, and that’s all it is, but if the citizens of Scotland will not listen to the same words coming from the mouth of their own UK government ministers, why does Baillie et al think we give a flying yank what the leader of a country thousands of miles over the ocean thinks about his own interests? I can’t really see this intervention changing any minds, there are far more issues relevant too close to home for his views to matter.
Tories quaking in their handmade Church’s brogues awaiting vote count in Newark…
Chaka Khan, ‘I Feel For You’ –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpCpikHowLI
“The SNP cannot legally bind an independent Scotland to anything between 19th September 2014 to March 2016.”
So why do they say in their own white paper that they plan to negotiate to form a currency union and become a member of EU/Nato between those dates, and that they expect Scotland to become a member of all the above on independence day in March 2016?
“Chaka Khan, ‘I Feel For You’”
Good song, I prefer the Prince version though.
@Clydebuilt: some thoughts on your contribution would not post here. I have done my usual and posted them here instead
http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=56409715
Has any foreign leader said ‘Scotland independence?….well it was for about 700 years so its going back to normal eh?’
Duggie, I’m genuinely interested; who do you work for? Even the name is a giveaway – trying hard to seem Scottish but spelling it wrong. What’s the weather like in GCHQ? Or is it BT HQ? FYI, no one here has any problem with people who have genuine questions or who disagree with them – if that were the case, I’d have been run off this site as soon as I started commenting – that’s what we’re all here for but you’re an obvious troll so, with respect, troll off.
Brotyboy – I’m sorry, I am sorry, I know you said to ignore the troll but I’m just too damn curious.
Wardrope said: Obama would prefer a ‘strong’ UK
As I stated in an earlier post – Scotland is a fly to swat when it comes to USA military power – all he cares about is how close to eastern Europe he can dock his WMDs.
The interesting thing is, wee Scotland can swat the might of the USA in a single act of dissent, by voting Yes.
An interesting wee read here.
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/a-conspiracy-of-hope/zapatistas-and-the-globalization-of-resistance
Kirsty,
My comment wasn’t meant to be anti American, it was meant to be anti US foreign policy. They do have a shall we say ‘tarnished’ reputation when it comes to matters abroad.
Hmmm, nice –
Prince. Chaka Khan. Stevie Wonder…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thDgxF116PQ
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BpYnBMxIUAAazpK.jpg
#positive
“What’s the weather like in GCHQ? Or is it BT HQ?”
Yep you’ve got me, right now I’m sitting in the nerve centre of the Tory/Ukip/Better together/Obama/World domination/BBC/Westminster/Alien lizards HQ.
Or, to anyone who doesn’t believe in ludicrous tin hat conspiracy theories, I’m a supporter of the Scottish Greens and a supporter of independence – as proven by all my posts.
Seriously, the unionists are always trying to claim independence supporters are conspiracy theory nutters, don’t give them ammunition.
I voted Green in the euro election and I’ll be voting Yes in the referendum. And I’d like Duggie to be permabanned, because he’s obviously a troll trying to cause division, which won’t work, so he’s just clogging the comments up something awful.
Rab the Doubter,
Ah, then we agree completely. Sorry if I seemed like I was bitching at you – I wasn’t.
Dr JM Mackintosh
I just got a threatened with the court for not paying my BBC Tax, I think I will have to start paying it again, like you getting fed seeing the same stuff all over again.
I really am surprised there is only one troll, must be others, maybe its a conspiracy to get us to stop cybernatting and start watching Telly again.
Ive got to say, the first week in trying to break the habit was hard, but now I don’t even think about it and my blood pressure is a lot lower.
“I voted Green in the euro election…he’s obviously a troll trying to cause division”
You sound suspiciously like this site’s other apparent ‘green supporter’ Paula Rose, who is support a strong ‘supporter’ of the Greens that she spends several hours attacking and abusing and begging people to ignore anyone who dares to publicise or show support to any of the Green’s independence policies.
Perhaps, as a ‘supporter’ of the Greens, you could attempt to explain why you think expressing support for their independence plans and views is ‘trying to cause division’?
I’m sure, as a Green ‘supporter’ you’ll have read the Green Yes document and will be aware of their views regarding the SNP not having a mandate to push Scotland into their preferred policies after a yes vote?
Inequality, the uber-rich, Obama, space ships. Don’t say I’m not trying. 🙂
http://www.yesmagazine.org/new-economy/thomas-piketty-book-inequality-2016
Actually, Duggie, I was wrong when I said you should troll off – stick around, please. You’re hilarious.
What’s the matter with you all! STOP FEEDING THE TROLL! STOP IT!
Dougie, I know you are not the infamous one known as TELEN, you are indeed… the one and only.. BELEND..aren’t you?
Back on topic…we know Cameron briefed Obama, and we know a BBC plant asked the question..so would any honest msm see it as anything but a set up?
Any bets tomorrow/today that ‘mumblegate’ will be forgotten and Obama/Megrahi/trams bollocks will be getting slung at the SG by our shameful ‘media’?
No probs Kirsty.
I’ve noticed that the BT trolls are out in force tonight, I seem to have rattled a few of their cages on twitter.
Am now (“mostly”) enjoying a midnight snack of cheese and chutney sandwich from a local take-away bar.
Notice as I crossed each street to reach the bread bar there is painted in bold white print upon the tarmac, “Look Right” and on the other side “Look Left.” How sad.
We Scots don’t require to be told at every turn and avenue how to vote as if an idiot’s sign, “Now Wash your hands.”
One of the things I love about WOS is reading the comments, there is usually a huge amount of news and other info to be found as well as good humour. But when I see the name ‘Duggie’ plastered all the way down, repeating the same arguments again and again and again I head for the corner of the browser and close. So job done Duggie whoever you may be.
Rev, please BAN HIM!
Thanks to National Collective who have just tweeted this link. 😛
http://tinyurl.com/m3nwj4b
Liquid Lenny said I’ve got to say, the first week in trying to break the habit was hard, but now I don’t even think about it and my blood pressure is a lot lower.
Congratulations.
In some respects, and contradicting Scotland’s detractors, a Yes vote will present us with at least one welcome new-found freedom – the right not to pay the BBC levy.
Duggie of the dubious spelling, I am off tae bed now (tae means to in Scots btw) but let me leave you with my favourite saying of, you can’t lie to yourself.
Now as a Dundonian let me echo Broty boy by saying don’t feed the troll.
Stu, you have saintly patience and tolerance.
Duggie, Presumably most people support/vote for Green because it is the party which best matches their beliefs.
You, on the other hand, appear to have read their manifesto and adopted every single policy without question.
It is a bit insulting of you to suggest that others who vote Green are being dishonest or disloyal to the party. Are people not allowed to have opinions which vary from the party line without being subjected to your contempt?
@james123
He has no power if you ignore him.
The Rev seems to have been dealing with – bizarrely – an irate Susan Boyle fan on Twitter. Is there no end to the nonsense this man will put up with for us??
(That’s not a comment on Susan Boyle, whom has a fine voice. Just some fans are just that – fanatics)
104 days left. Anybody got any good jokes? (Preferably not about Susan Boyle).
I’m waiting for Nigel (I’m too boozy for my shirt) Farage to turn his earthquake into a win in Newark….
I read Ukip wish the Scottish Parliament dissolved, rather like an aspirin in water, if they win power at Westminster. That should get them a letter of support from President “yes we can but not in my presidency” Obama.
Well who’d have thunk it. Better Together caught out lying AGAIN…BORING! 😛
http://tinyurl.com/ow4jbae
@RogueCoder
It’s not about ignoring, I have never responded to anything he has to say. It’s about having to wade through all his posts and responses from others to find comments I actually want to read.
Small snippets from our wee Dugs posts in this thread:
standing up for democracy; sovereignty of the Scottish people; entitled to their opinion; attacking and abusing; belief in democracy; sovereignty of the people of Scotland; support independence; people of Scotland; strong, robust, united and effective; sovereignty and self determination of the Scottish people; democracy and the sovereignty of the Scottish people; stand up for democracy; support for the independence.
The establishment believe in none of these ideals and that is who we are dealing with. Duggie2 has probably just taken over on the nightshift hence the renewed enthusiasm for the “game”.
Brotyboy was right, if a troll is identified, my advice:
1. Totally ignore it and let it run out of gas.
2. If someone forgets this, don’t remind them remember 1
They will go away if ignored, no doubt to return under another guise. Save all these little Duggisms for later. It’s all the have got, then you will quickly bag another for yourself.
I suspect, like lemmings their could be a flood of them heading for this particular cliff.
Type ‘drone attack aftermath’ into Youtube, and this is what you get. It’s only had 219 views. No idea where it was filmed, or when, and no-one has commented on it.
Is it real? Is it propaganda?
One thing is for sure – attacks of this kind happen because the President of the United States of America authorises them. (Where he gets such ‘authority’ from is another matter.)That man, right now, happens to be Barack Obama.
And the likes of Jackie Baillie celebrate his commentary on our future?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeXnaWaN_7c
I’d guess the video was shot in Pakistan Ian, I’m using the name of the individual who posted the video as a clue. 🙂
Jacob Rees-Mogg – oh, how I long to rid my days of these political airheads – Moggy signifies the Tories will win Newark, “A joyous moment.” They had, I think, a 16,000 majority at the last election. Bit of a bummer if they lose most of it to Ukip.
Rees-Mogg is not phased.
He doesn’t rule out a pact with Ukip should the Tories win most seats at the next UK election… an English MP can swallow his principles if it means securing power. Scottish MP has none to swallow.
@Lesley-Anne –
Cheers.
That 10-min video appears to show the devastation of a community. Whether it was a village, or suburb of a larger town is irrelevant. The soundtrack alone suggests that it is real, raw, genuine footage.
Barack Obama joked about ‘Predator’ drones during one of his speeches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWKG6ZmgAX4
Jackie Baillie champions this character.
Nuff said.
Aye what the hell does Baillie know? All she is interested in is running down Scotland. Hell Martians could have said vote NO or we invade and she’d be cheering them on. She is about as bad as it’s possible to get in terms of absolutely useless politicians, Lamont aside. 😛
@Liquid Lenny
You get about 4 of those letters every year – there is a range of them and eventually you will get to know them all. If you don’t watch TV then do not pay the license fee. Put them in the bin or whatever else you prefer to do. Every now and then someone will visit. Do not let them in: they have no right to enter and they work for Capita, don’t forget, so, as one of them told me the “have a crap job”. Do not shout at them like a banshee, as I did. Be kind but firm
Good luck 🙂
@Grouse Beater –
As a ‘living fossil’, Jacob Rees-Mogg should be invited to each and every referendum debate between now and the big day – if he can attend even a fraction of them, he will have a huge effect on the outcome.
Charming as he undoubtedly is, he encapsulates everything that differentiates the ‘English’ from the ‘ordinary’, boosting revulsion for metropolitan hegemony every time he opens his gob.
Yes Ian, I well remember the video you posted, what a man hahaha.
This might give you a wee bit of hope L.L. 😉
http://tinyurl.com/oa6d97d
I still cant find “This is the gem”, so….
Saint Andrew – Eh Umna Therefore Eh Um
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AwsfPHyVfI
Anyone who missed the BBC anti bias protest last weekend will have another chance.
http://tinyurl.com/kn2v33w
BBC Studios
Pacific Quay
29th June
14:00 – 15:30
Yer a choob, no ah umni, ey ye ur. Cheers CameronB
Thepnr
😉
Last thing from me(at least tonight) on trolls. They almost always start their post with a quote from an earlier poster and then try to rubbish it,
Rarely if ever if do they begin a post with an opinion of their own. Makes sense though from their point of view eh.
Ive turned over 2 pages. . . mumblegate?
“We should let the investigation [into allegations that Qatar secured the tournament through bribery] to run its course, but of course England is the home of football, as it’s the home and inventor of many sports – tennis, rugby, GOLF, skiing, table-tennis, cricket.”
Tennis – French? Rugby – Hawick? Golf – Scotland?, Holland? Skiing – Norway? Table-Tennis – China?, Cricket – England?, Denmark?
No contention however, on the sport of privilege, hubris and entitlement.
This seems appropriate tonight! 🙂
youtu.be/A13vj5vdlCU
This seems appropriate tonight! 🙂
http://www.youtu.be/A13vj5vdlCU
“So why do they say in their own white paper that they plan to negotiate to form a currency union and become a member of EU/Nato between those dates, and that they expect Scotland to become a member of all the above on independence day in March 2016?”
“Planning”, “Negotiating” and “Expecting” is not the same as ‘legally binding’.
Until AFTER independence in March 2016, no one in Scotland has the power to sign any international agreements.
The first democratically elected Scottish government will sign those agreements.
How many million posts will it take for Duggie to get that into its head?
Johann Lamont will have a one sentence manifesto:
‘Scottish Labour, if elected, will do the exact opposite of what is in the SNP manifesto and will also repeal all laws and agreements signed by the SNP government from 2007 to 2016’.
You can then vote for her.
“So why do they say in their own white paper that they plan to negotiate to form a currency union and become a member of EU/Nato between those dates, and that they expect Scotland to become a member of all the above on independence day in March 2016?”
“Planning”, “Negotiating” and “Expecting” is not the same as ‘legally binding’.
Until AFTER independence in March 2016, no one in Scotland has the power to sign any international agreements.
The first democratically elected Scottish government will sign those agreements.
How many million posts will it take for Duggie to get that into its head?
Johann Lamont will have a one sentence manifesto:
‘Scottish Labour, if elected, will do the exact opposite of what is in the SNP manifesto and will also repeal all laws and agreements signed by the SNP government from 2007 to 2016’.
You can then vote for her.
O/T. Just seen BTBC have looked at “how much we can trust” the claims of yes Scotland and BT posters. Anyone who hasn’t read it yet want to hazard a guess at the results?
Newark
labour down 5% on 2010 election
17.7%
We could all pool and share our Lego fund and buy a Millenium Falcon so Mr Obama can run rendition flights. it could do the Guantánamo run in under two parsecs.
Let me put things into proper perspective. In 1603 a Scottish monarch inherited the crown of the, three country, “Kingdom of England”.
After the English Kingdom’s,1688, “Glorious Revolution”, and the overthrow of King James II of England (James VII of Scotland and James II of Ireland) by a union of English Parliamentarians with the Dutch stadtholder William III of Orange-Nassau (William of Orange).
William’s successful invasion of England with a Dutch fleet and army led to his ascending of the English throne as William III of England jointly with his wife Mary II of England. As the Kingdom of Scotland was then still an independent kingdom, with its own independent parliament, this DID NOT form a United Kingdom nor did it make William & Mary the monarchy of Scotland.
It did ,though, start the Jacobite Uprisings that spanned the actual, “Treaty of Union”, and continued until 1745. This Treaty came only after threats of military action and underhanded dealings by The Kingdom of England.
Thus the truth is the United Kingdom is exactly as it describes itself. A single Kingdom formed by the union of ONLY the Kingdoms of Scotland & England and which still contained four individual countries.
When I cast my vote in the referendum, I have ONLY the option of choosing if The Kingdom of Scotland is to return to being an independent Kingdom or not returning to being an independent Kingdom.
My choice will be MY CHOICE. It will not be to please the Queen of Scots, The United Kingdom’s political leaders, the Scottish Unionist NO campaigners but most of all it WILL NOT be to please the president of a foreign nation who is so badly informed he thinks the United Kingdom of four countries is but a single country bent upon pleasing a foreign president.
Can Anyone tell me what is going on with Dereck Batemans Website. ? Visited there a few times in the last couple of hours. Different things keep coming up. Cheers.
Here’s a slogan for you, “I’m voting YES for my Scotland. I’m not voting NO for Obama’s USA”.
Bateman says the huge traffic, mainly from Geo Foulkes (his words) has meant that his sight is going through an upgrade today.
Site Duh, just up!
I’m voting YES for a better Scotland.Obama doesn’t live here,so he doesn’t get a vote.
Dimblebums radio show any questions comes from Dundee where one of the topics will be Obamas intervention.
Just pure co incidence with the timing.
On the panel will be M Moore, Stairheid rammy Curran, Keith Brown and a businessman for Yes.
How better Together think that a planted BBC question to a black US President who knows FA about Scotland, will make Scots vote NO beats me.
Add to the mix, three Union Jacks as a backdrop and a botox filled Tory Prime Minister by his side.
Well that really is going to stop the surge of support for the YES campaign, isn’t it?
Here is a 2 min video of yesterdays events.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27724140#
My reply to Obama is,
YES WE CAN!
I wonder if the Germans have all this coverage of D-Day on telly as there were a fair few of their young men who lost their lives that day?
Mr Obama is thinking of nukes, strategic positions, pleasing his Brit friends and doesnt know what it means to have the lowest living standards in Europe, but nearly all the oil reserves
@Croompenstein
Well the Arte channel broadcast in France and Germany nationally, plus all across Europe has covered some good documentaries on it from both sides.
Popular thread right enough and its good to see the general response to the supposed American intervention, has been carried through more with humour than anything else. Of course the the Pres was put on the spot somewhat by DC and a couple of short lines does not an intervention make.
I mean the fella could have gone all Bildt or Robertson on us, but didn’t. There was no Balkanisation idiocy or forces of darkness speech. In fact he made it quite clear that its for us to decide. Very much a diplomats answer, as in something for sides to carry away. Probably not the fulsome endorsement of union that DC was looking for. Frankly I don’t think Mr Obama is bothered in the slightest. He’ll deal with whoever is governing this country.
No, I think we’ve probably seen his one and only ‘intervention’. But if not, I still reckon Ebay for the nukes. 🙂
Obama is now Cameron’s poodle. Americans must be so proud.
That should read ‘something for both sides to carry away’.
BBC Scotland caught lying again. Their headline was Aberdeen A&E was down from ten senior doctors to two.
The head of Aberdeen health board has just came on and corrected them. It is Junior doctors who are down in numbers and who are currently being recruited to bring the number of Juniors doctors back to normal levels very shortly.
It’s another BBC Scotland lie blown right of the water.
Yesterday, BBC Scotland said it was meltdown in the Scottish NHS because the Victoria Infirmary in Glasgow ran out of blankets for a couple of hours.
BBC Scotland and Scottish Labour really are trying very hard to run down our Scottish NHS and want the scalp of Alex Neil before the Referendum.
BBC Scotland have lost the plot. Blinded by unionist loyalty, they just don’t see how bias they have become.
From looking at the guardian pics of Obama and Cameron walking off the stage,the body language speaks volumes.
Obama looks uncomfortable and as for the non entity that is Cameron really isn’t that just a figure of fun. Bloated,shiny and quite possibly one of the most cowardly men to ever hold a position of power.
As for Dougie Alexander geez he was almost drooling,he could hardly get his tongue to fit back in his mouth due to the arse licking.
Oh please Scotland let us rid ourselves of these pathetic creatures once and for all.
Apologies if this has already been clarified within the thread (I’ve come late to this and there’s a Lot to trawl through) but does anyone know WHO asked Obama the question? If, as it has been suggested, that his answer was planned in consultation with dishface Cameron, then there would have had to have been collusion by a friendly journalist. Was it a UK based hack?
D-DAY JUNE6th 1944
LEST WE FORGET
Alisdair Darling – staining Scots via his recent references to NAZI tendencies versus SNP and others who support Independence.?
Let me get within kicking distance of that despicable warmongering weasel who taints the memory of real heroes who fought and died for Democracy – 70 years ago today.
LEST WE FORGET.
murraymint says:
As far as I can establish it WAS the BBC, and Obama had his support requested by Cameron. Like thieves in the night.
Indy_Scot
I think more sharply focused, you could say that Obama is Cameron’s ‘house boy’, doing the bidding of his colonial master
What is emerging is that Obama was set up, with the BBC planted question. That’s not to say he didn’t know what he was talking about, but its clear that he has been lined up and been willing to go along with it.
What’s sickening is the amount that the BBC have been prepared for this and have obviously worked closely with Cameron’s team, along with Better Together, who magically produced their ‘Nope’ leaflet. Which was proudly held up by Brian Taylor.
The BBC are continuing to dig their own grave in Scotland, as any lingering respect evaporates.
What is sickening for Americans, is the fact that their President has overstepped himself in allowing himself to be used in such a way. After all one of the ideals of American’s IS self determination and democracy, to have a President comment in support of an imperial/colonial power against any form of self determination, must surely jar
O/T
Has anyone had their had their YES Saltire flag delivered.
The last delivery date I got was for the end of May, but still no flag. Can someone post an update of when the delivery might be. TA!
Body language aside, vote no Guardian headline flip from Obama suggests to Obama wants Scotland staying in the UK.
All the usual hysterics from teamGB media convincing themselves everything they do is crushing Scottish democracy and Alicsamin, saving British rule Britannia stuff etc. Up here in Aberdeen its not even been mentioned and I started asking people I meet out dog walking or getting served at Starbucks. Its never even come up.
The questions I have asked the whitehouse is “did the founding fathers of the US say oh lets just forget about it its more important that the Empire stays united?. OR
is the US economy so bad that The US wants to rejoin the UK &
have Gideon sort it for them?
Rev you have never had such a response to such few words before!Gotta be good.
@caz-m
Last I saw they were saying June 15th.
I emailed him at the Whitehouse to mildly rebuke him for interfering in the affairs of our country which I reminded him was old long before his was constituted.
I’ll let you know what he says…
Lest we forget. One proud Scot, no buts!
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/i-don-t-remember-seeing-him-on-any-battlefields-desert-rat-attacks-lord-lang-comments-1.199010
Obama’s from the land of Cotton,politicians there are
bought & payed for by Corperate America, & will be soon
forgotten.
19th Sept we will be having a Yellow Label sale of Useless
Politicians,anybody have the Rule Book of KICK the CAN ,
an Can any Can be used,example a PILCHARD Can Can.
murraymint
It was a BBC reporter who asked Obama the Scottish question.
Crying wolf again.
11WW died in Europe
26 Million Russians
8 Million Germans
6 million Poles
6 Million Jews
2 Million Americans
1/2 Million French
1/2 Million UK ( 2/3 more Scots pro rata)
Poland was handed back to Russian dominance by the Allies at Yalta, after the War.
@ Kininvie thanks for the Hamish posters/Badges We have
plenty material for the Wings Stall on Sat 7th June in
Strathclyde Park. Many thanks to all who helped with poster banners ect.
Scots who never really considered the thought that our own UK Government would deploy a colonial propaganda machine against a people from who they have greatly benefited, have had a rude awakening.
They are now proved, not to be our friends, they only care of their utter control over ALL things Scottish, every aspect of our lives. All for their own purposes.
History will shame them for all the things they do now to prevent Scottish Independence, they are below contempt and their deceit will forever be kept in the records of Scotland’s story lest we forget who our “friends” are.
BBC bigging up Obama’s comments on Morning Call
BBC RADIO SCOTLAND MORNING CALL
Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.
Email morningcallscotland@bbc.co.uk
On the day that Glasgow is revealed as the UK’s sickest city, with some truly appalling health and life expectancy statistics, a historically illiterate American President tells us that ‘things seem to have worked pretty well there’.
This is then lauded by the odious Alexander, a representative of the party which has presided over the destruction of Glasgow.
All overseen by a state broadcaster which – there can be no doubt – is actively colluding with the No campaign in an attempt to thwart Scottish democracy.
By God, we should be angry.
Ian said: ,i>every time he opens his gob.
I agree.
Newark: Tories won, Ukip second. That reinforces the notion Ukip don’t have the nous to gain many seats at Westminster, but also that a coalition between the two far-right parties is likely. Unless a masochist, what person living in Scotland looks forward to voting No to ensure that happens?
Is this not the same Obama who famously said “Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the one’s we’ve been waiting for. We are the change we seek”?
Morning,
O/T
For people who may have missed some of the recent articles in New Scientist, about the potential of an independent Scotland, and have a commercial interest, then this article is worth reading
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25639-scotland-ape-israel-to-build-a-startup-nation.html?full=true#.U5FzgsdtmUc
An uplifting article, seriously devoid of the doom and gloom, we get from our anti independence funding Propagandist BBC (They are still funding the anti independence CBI, with license payers money).
Scotland is jam packed with potential (especially in life sciences). Only a YES vote can free us from London mis-rule and set us on the right course.
Lets face it, not Obamas finest blurb, regardless of his links with UK and English PM.
US politicos already questioning his judgement on going beyong ‘neutrality’, he is now being critized for being so obvious and siding with UK in his statement; but clearly also being seen as well rehearsed and staged. So maybe there is something we are not seeing, for UK to request such presidential help so early on ? (As SNP say; expected this in late August).
Regardless it will have very little impact in Scoltand; but embarrassing how media & wee ‘despicable me’ Alexander jumped all over it like a ‘dug in heat’.
Suspect his suit will now be at dry cleaners for extensive wash cycle on ‘nether regions’.
GMS Alex Salmond would have been greatful for Obama’s
intervention for Independence ( we dont need no stinking
badges ) or Interventions from the High Sheriff of the
land of Interventionists.
Brotyboy Cheers
For chic
England is the home of football, as it’s the home and inventor of many sports – tennis, rugby, GOLF,
Chic, can you direct me to the balloon who stated that? I’d like to add it my list of Britain is England gaffs on my website: “Oops!- I mean Britain.”
Interesting to see Douglas Alexander urge us to vote for whats in America’s interest rather than Scotland’s.
Isn’t Wee Douglie a part of the British American Project ?
Call Kaye Adams(spit), BBC Scotland radio discussing Obamagate right now.
Forgot to say; are we really surprised at Obama’s opinion, if he gets his source material from UK gov / BBC media ?
Has he ever met Mr Salmond; has never mentioned him ?
The US is trying to dominate world trade to their advantage and pay no taxes. Tax evade. The UK government is helping them. They are killing/starving people to death to increase the wealth of Western Politicans, abusing public monies. Merkel refused the loan to Ukraine which started the crisis in Ukraine. The Ukrainian President is now one of the Politicans whose actions are killing/starving people to death. Allowing Obama and the corrupt six Western leaders to maintain their vast personal fortunes.
Apparently Obama has just tweeted, Obama for hire, throw me a bone and I’ll bark like a dog.
All the Labourites on my Twitter timeline are fizzing with excitement at the Obama intervention. Its seemingly a ‘Game Changer’.
I’m obviously a bit biased but I really can’t see this, either from the substance of what he actually said.
Furthermore even if he had been more direct in support of the Unionist cause I’m sceptical of the impact of his input.
Last game changer(Nae CU for you) they were shouting about they are now all frantically denying was a Labour idea
Gawd – London must rank the noisiest bloody city in the UK.
I’ll be glad to be on that train home…
So it’s ok for Obama to go to Dublin and be feted by thousands of Irish fans. It’s ok for Ireland and USA to be independent of the UK but not Scotland! Something doesn’t add up. Or could it be those 40 million Irish American voters. And those WMDs on our Clyde.
@Grouse Beater
Is i’ drivin’ you up the waw?
L
http://nationalcollective.com/2014/06/05/yes-we-can/
You may have noticed that President Obama made a wee remark about the Scottish independence referendum. Obviously, the media have leapt upon this, despite Obama speaking entirely about how independence would effect US interests (Trident most obviously springs to mind), and indeed saying that it was an issue for the people of Scotland to decide upon.
However, rather than dissecting every last syllable of what Obama said, why don’t we cast our minds back to the spring of 2011, when Barack and Michelle visited our neighbour, the Republic of Ireland. Here, Obama made an impassioned speech in the centre of Dublin. During it, he said this:
“In dreams begin responsibility. And embracing that responsibility, working toward it, overcoming the cynics and the naysayers and those who say “you can’t” — that’s what makes dreams real. That’s what Falmouth Kearney did when he got on that boat, and that’s what so many generations of Irish men and women have done here in this spectacular country. That is something we can point to and show our children, Irish and American alike. That is something we can teach them as they grow up together in a new century, side by side, as it has been since our beginnings.
This little country, that inspires the biggest things — your best days are still ahead. Our greatest triumphs — in America and Ireland alike — are still to come. And, Ireland, if anyone ever says otherwise, if anybody ever tells you that your problems are too big, or your challenges are too great, that we can’t do something, that we shouldn’t even try — think about all that we’ve done together. Remember that whatever hardships the winter may bring, springtime is always just around the corner. And if they keep on arguing with you, just respond with a simple creed: Is féidir linn. Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Is féidir linn.”
In September, we have a chance to make sure that Scotland’s ‘best days are still ahead’. President Obama was elected in 2008 on a wave of hope and optimism, a desire for change. That’s what we aspire for here in Scotland. We aspire to have the ability to write our own future, to elect our own governments, to inspire change and hope across the world. Next time you are faced with a cynic and naysayer, someone who tells us ‘you can’t do that’, that our problems are too big, or our challenges are too great, that we can’t do something, that we shouldn’t even try, be sure to respond with those three little words that inspired a generation: Yes, we can.
Loved Irish Johns ( call Kaye this morning ) when he quoted what Obama said to the Irish people. Exact opposite of what he told the Scots Yesterday. Does anyone who heard it know where I can get a Copy? .
Simply, he can pish off.
We are watching you folks, OKAY!
Thanks mr thms You must have been reading My mind!
# bigGpolmont
It is a great article. I hope someone can Call Kaye to tell her, and her listeners, what he said to Ireland..
Obama’s speech in front of very pensive Dave was just enough to allow the British propaganda machine to spin it for all it’s worth. The one word that it all hung on was unity, whatever he ment and whatever he was referring to, that was not spelled out and open to misinterpretation as required.
So the ministry of misinformation could have a field day with their meanings, and Cameron had a look of relief and so which said it all and a sleekit look of relief about him.
The main thrust of Obama’s talk was its up to the Scots.
Interesting that Scottish Labour think President Obama’s intervention is significant. It’s almost as if they think their supporters are unable to think for themselves.
The whole stage managed Scottish question to Obama was a Westminster Establishment setup.
Aided by the BBC.
If you are going along to the Eden Centre in Inverness for Brian’s Big Debate, then someone should ask him if it’s true that he got delivery of the Obama “Nope” posters a full day before the question to Obama was even asked.
This has been in the Better Together planning for weeks.
BBC reporter asks a planted question and before Obama has finished answering it, Brian Taylor is waving Obama posters about the place with “Nope” on it.
I tried to post this a couple of times this morning around 2.30 but it wouldn’t stick to the wall so I’ll try again.
HA! Eureka! A pesky h-t-t-p on the YouTube url!
Mea Culpa.
——————————————————-
Mmmmm Thepnr.
A lot of my posts everywhere start with somebody’s quote, then my opinion on it. Don’t think that’s a valid argument.
Lesley-Anne –
Thanks for the link that led to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhL57cjN8xY
Lastly, there’s an interesting comment at the Craig Murray link above:-
“So what do you think will happen in Scotland, which happens to ‘host’ THE most important nuclear submarine base in the N Atlantic? Strategically more important than any East Coast US base.
Obama’s statement today is just the start – the next few months are going to be a nightmare of propaganda. I have friends who are pro-independence but not too engaged in the process; as the arguments get more strident, I’ll be amazed if they and many others stick to YES; the fear factor pounded on by the BBC and the mass media is just enormous.”
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/deep-interest-of-the-deep-state/
It does make you wonder just how much pre planning the UK government and the BBC did to set up Obamagate.
Nope similar to Dope
Breaking News // BT are furious with Obama !
He forgot to use the words ‘Pooling and sharing resources’ & ‘Best of both worlds’ from the script !
Blair MacDougall is furious and was last seen heading for the pie shop.
Indy Scot said: It does make you wonder just how much pre-planning the UK government and the BBC did to set up Obamagate.
Not much, when you remember a good few also work for MI5 or MI6.
Posted this on the wrong thread…I need caffeine.
I have to say that No’s orgasm over Obama’s rather throw away and caveated intervention is slightly perplexing. Are they honestly saying that they think this is important. Obviously a total Blairite like Alexander who was part of the cabal that was in bed with Bush would not sneeze without permission from the Whitehouse but has he forgotten how many marched against them?
I think Yes can use this intervention to our advantage. Let’s remind people exactly where they stood over Blair’s unconditional acceptance of all US foreign policy. Let’s show how much No is still part of that cabal. How it favours unprincipled undemocratic power over genuine aspirations for self determination.
I hope on the 4th of July the Scottish Government send Obama warm well wishes on the celebration of US independence and how we look forward to having our own independence day.
@Ken500
More like a Cameron / Obama ‘Rope a dope’ !!
Haha Rev on the radio.
Don’t worry, we are hitting them really hard as the following Yes billboard shows:
“What would you say to living in one of the world’s wealthiest nations?”
Westminster and Obama must be shaking in their shoes!
That’s a nasty cough you have there Stuart in Bath 🙂
Stu on GMS ha ha
Goan yersel Stu!
Is that oor Rev on Call Kaye?
The rev is now on Your Call BBC Radio I don’t think they know who he is yet!
Blows the spontaneous remark of Obama out of the water.
🙂
Jesus Christ –
Pretty sure: ‘Stuart from Bath’ is our Rev on Call Kaye now!!!
Skewering BBC in cognito !!!
What a laugh
just been listening to the rev on call Kaye excellent
Very True Obama does sound very uncomfortable he really does sound as though he has been put on the spot. obviously didnt like what was he was having to say which is probably why he said that it was very important that the UK should stay in EU
BBC control room live ……. DOH!!!!!
Grousebeater
Jacob, is to the right of the Tory party. A deal with UKIP would pull the Tory party to the right. That would make Jacob happy. I think he is on record as saying he likes Farage.
Obama’s speech in front of very pensive Dave…..
Cameron was trying very hard not to look smug.
BT seems to think this is a game-changer!
Are you in Bath, Rev?
jeeyzuz, wee Kaye from Grangemouth couldn’t believe it!!!
caz-m
Yesterday, BBC Scotland said it was meltdown in the Scottish NHS because the Victoria Infirmary in Glasgow ran out of blankets for a couple of hours.
Actually, in fairness to the BBC, Tuesday was pretty terrible. We had 999 Ambulances on divert to the Royal, but we didn’t get any extra staff over from these (now less busy) A&Es to help. I think we must have had about 400 through the door in 12-14 hours on Tuesday. That’s dangerous numbers.
GMS were caught out misreporting the NHS Grampian reduction in “senior staff” this morning. Amateur hour again…
Does anyone else think folk are missing the tone of Obama’s speech (the BBC particularly). They have essentially lept on the word “united” but looking at his actual words (I know, this’ll never catch on) he talks about being a united and strong ally. Maybe he simply means united with the USA in our aims. This doesn’t necessarily mean a political union with rUK.
O/T
BBC Scotland radio news bulletin at 10am STILL running with the Aberdeen A&E short of senior doctors lie.
They were told this morning by the doctor in charge of Aberdeen Health Service that it was not short of senior doctors.
Why let the truth get in the way of a good story.