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Wings Over Scotland

Back in the days

Posted on December 21, 2020 by

There was a time, readers, when we’d have bothered ourselves to dig out the whole series of headlines and links for this.

Archly, we’d have pointed out that Labour solemnly offered Scotland yet another new devolution deal (roughly its 33rd since it first started promising “Home Rule” in – and we’re not making this up – 1888) before the 2017 UK general election, and got itself humiliatingly thrashed.

(Picking up just 10,000 extra votes – most of them in the one seat it already held – in a year when the SNP lost 500,000 in previously Labour seats, and coming third behind the Tories in a country it used to own heart and soul.)

We’d have noted wryly that it offered Scotland the same old reheated garbage again at the 2019 election and got even more humiliatingly thrashed, losing all but one of its MPs again and coming FOURTH in terms of seats, well behind even the Lib Dems.

We would, of course, have linked back to Gordon Brown’s original 2014 promise of the most federally devolved super-ultra-max federal devolution humanly imaginable, and his empty assurance that that promise would be kept even though Brown was in no position to do so and indeed wasn’t even standing in the next election.

And we’d have summoned up some snark at the utter, hapless, desperate, pitiable pathos of Labour trying to trot it out yet again in the dying gasps of 2020, four long years away from even a dream of power, and the dying joke of a Scottish media STILL treating it like a serious proposal that meant anything and expecting anything but hoots of laughter from their tiny handful of surviving decrepit elderly readers.

But we’re so weary, folks. What’s the point? You all know it as well as we do. Even the dogs in the street know that Scottish Labour is deader than David Bowie and last had a hit much longer ago. It’s a gigantic, contemptuous insult from both the party and the media to waste an inch of newsprint on this rancid, fly-swarmed keech from a lost, doddering, senile old dinosaur whose opinion no sane person has cared about in the last decade, but they keep doing it anyway from sheer muscle memory because it’s all their tiny reptile brains know how to do.

(That chart is for the UK media, which for all its many and vast faults at least still has some semblance of balance – a range of Labour, centrist and Tory papers, Leave and Remain papers, and so on. We shudder to imagine what the figures for Scotland’s own foreign-owned mono-media, doggedly refusing to even attempt to give voice to the wishes of 58% of the population, would be.)

We’ve run out of superlatives and hyperbole (and the will) to express the magnitude of the mindboggling intellectual bankruptcy of still expecting anyone to swallow this drivel. “Look, people of Scotland! Gordon Brown’s been dragged out of his crypt again to groan the old incantations once more! You must heed the wise elder’s words!”

The only remaining contest in Scottish politics is trying to figure out whether the SNP or the Unionist parties are treating the public as bigger idiots. At this point, folks, we’re beginning to suspect we’d all be better off with the coronavirus in charge.

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  1. 21 12 20 13:56

    Back in the days | speymouth

399 to “Back in the days”

  1. Morgatron says:

    President virus, I’m sure Bowie wrote about it in Saviour Machine. Great article Stu but the press just keep a pressing and regurgitating the old same drivel.

  2. Bob Mack says:

    So Starmer wants to give us what we have already got, until 31 st Dec ,when it is taken away.

    Seems generous

  3. Sharny Dubs says:

    How contemptuous to expect anyone the swallow this utter crap. I thought labour were bad but Jezz

  4. newburghgowfer says:

    Writing about nuggets our very own Wet Pishfart is having a dig at the Broon. That idiot Pishfart obviously hasn’t got a mirror or Dictionary as he doesn’t know what irony means or looks like.

  5. Big Del says:

    Just watched stummer getting asked a question on Sky news there, by the STVs reporter Colin whatshisname and the blue Tory red Tory dick used Teresa’s answer “ now is not the time”. This is all we’re going to get.
    With no plan B, C ,D in place by NS, or hope of any either I fear we are ducked folks.

  6. kapelmeister says:

    The dismal Hootsmon can’t even spot mistakes in their leader comment sub-headings nowadays.

    “..has been once of the stories..”

    One upon a time it was a real newspaper.

  7. Lorna Campbell says:

    We wouldn’t all be so wearied of this bulls**t if people – i.e. the MSM – didn’t regurgitate it as nauseam, just as they regurgitate any old fat-free nonsense from any minority as the Gospel according to St Ordure. That all this minority nonsense, utterly lacking in any reasonable or reasoned analysis at all, suits the braindead and the totally manipulative in Scotland, is testament to its cognitive dissonance and pariah status to anyone with two tiny brain cells to spare off each other.

  8. wulls says:

    I was watching that old film Mars Attacks last night….
    If the aliens invaded right now the Tories and Labour would unite to surrender to them on the grounds it would be preferable to the SNP in charge.

    The Lib Dems would abstain until they issued a gender recognition statement regarding who they would eat first.

    Westminster would seek assurances that the aliens wouldn’t eat their tax havens.

  9. robertknight says:

    Labour… Jam tomorrow
    SNP… Jam tomorrow
    FibDems…Is it vegan jam?
    Scot Greens…Is it non-binary jam?
    Tories… You’ll get no f**king jam and like it!

  10. Livionian says:

    The Labour leadership live on a different planet if they think that any of us are going to take this seriously. They just don’t get it do they?

    On another note, I am surprised how quiet Rev Stu has been on the Andy Wightman story and would like to hear what he has to say about it.

  11. PacMan says:

    This is just another devious and cynical attempt to try and chip away at indy support in the polls.

  12. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Question for Glen Campbell, Propagandist for a foreign Government aka Lord Hee-Haw.

    How “staunch”* a Unionist do you would have to be to rip up the SNPs Manifesto live on air (or be caught live on air with you head on the desk, greeting like a bairn when the SNP won an Holyrood majority)?

    How “staunch”* to have done both these things Glen?

    Isn’t “staunch” one of those words the Citrus Fruit Fans from NI have appropriated (is Glen at the dog-whistle stuff again)?

  13. susanXX says:

    Livionian @12:32pm. Stu has made his thoughts about Andy Wightman pretty clear, I doubt he has much more to add.

    Back on topic Labour are like Groundhog day, more devolution. They’re not in a place to even make the offer and won’t be for a long time yet, the sad sacks.

  14. deerhill says:

    Why would any sane person think the Scottish public would pay any attention to Starmer or Broon?

    Starmer is obviously a right wing creature of the establishment. The specification was “get a Tony Blair type without the charisma”

    Well they got the lack of charisma spot on!

    Why does Gordy bother? What have “they” got on him that propells him to spout inane pish?

    Has he been promised a seat in the house of incontinent drunks aka house of lords?

  15. NodtoBob says:

    As Frankie Boyle said, “there’s never been a better day to not buy a newspaper”.

  16. Astonished says:

    I see Glen “collaborator-in-chief” campbell is bigging up sir keir’s re-hashed brown stuff.

    It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so tragic.

    Could someone elected as an SNP politician please do something to help free Scotland ? (Blackford bleating doesn’t count).

  17. F J Lynch says:

    Westminster now saying Broon will be part of new convention re new powers! WTF??!!

  18. EL Cruden says:

    I honestly think yessers are being too soft on this pish. This isn’t a “misjudgement” from Starmer. Labour win when England votes Labour. Labour have clearly learned from the Conservatives that political success in England requires ticking the frustrating Scottish democracy box. This is a calculated sop: English gammon = English votes = English election win = UK election win.

    Scottish Labour are now, therefore, not only a bulwark of English politics but a bulwark of anti-Scottish politics.

    We should be making more of this as a movement, not gawping & chuckling in pseudo-disbelief. These are attacks, not gaffs.

  19. Desimond says:

    As you note, Kiers 4 years from a UK election and you really do have to ask “Who thought this was the time for such a declaration?”

    Dover shut..chaos Britain and someone at Labour decides “lets do a Scottish pitch!”

    A mental waste all round…least they are consistent I suppose

  20. Bob Mack says:

    It is the political equivalent of death to Independence by a thousand cuts, whilst the Dr in Holyrood looks on apparently unable to intervene to aid the patient till his punishment is complete.

    Bleeding us dry.

  21. Frank Gillougley says:

    it’s the dementia card.

  22. Lorna Campbell says:

    See that autocorrect. I’m going to kill it. AD nauseam (line 2); fact-free (lines 2-3); and sparK off each other (final line). Alternatively, it’s a poor tradesman (woman) who blames her tools, so mea culpa. Well done again, Rev. Nail. Hit. Head.

  23. Allium says:

    I mean, I welcome them dragging GB out. I hope they use him as often as they can. Its just so bizarre that they think he’s some kind of drawcard, rather than a liability. No-one likes him, on any side.

  24. Breeks says:

    If people want a bit of nostalgia…

    The Scottish UN Committee…as Scotland witnesses it’s sovereign constitution being subjugated and Brexit forced upon us against our sovereign and democratic will, where are you now?

  25. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “On another note, I am surprised how quiet Rev Stu has been on the Andy Wightman story and would like to hear what he has to say about it.”

    There doesn’t seem to be much to say that hasn’t been said already. I have no time for the guy but at least he’s done the right thing now. I’m just glad that in what looked until the very end like being an extremely close call, his vote didn’t actually matter in the end.

  26. Didn’t Broon and Bowie duet on a previous hit – The Man Who Sold The Gold?

  27. Ottomanboi says:

    Starmer and Brown think like bots. And so do Mrs Murrell and her retinue.
    Seems to be the systemic disease of the political race.
    Truly, the beginning of wisdom is scepticism regarding the often trite musings of functionaries.
    “The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd.”
    — Bertrand Russell….and he should know!

  28. Muscleguy says:

    it’s actually a good sign Rev. THIS is the best they have. They ken it’s keech, ken it well. But it’s the best keech they have.

    That they have trotted out MORE DEVOLUTION Euurgh! from el Gordo even before we have started Indyref2 shows how bare the rhetorical cupboard is for Labour.

    Trying to find a formula to renew the reeking, rotting corpse of SLAB is just desperate ritual now. Stop taking it so seriously. It is just a lot of sound and fury, signifying less than absolutely nothing.

  29. Peter N says:

    I didn’t even bother to read any of the reports on this in the MSM. Why would I want to waste my time doing so? Heard it all before. It was worth then what it is worth now – zilch.

  30. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Re Gordon “Intervention” Broon, 3rd worst Prime Minister in UK history (and only T May – end Worst and BawJaws – Worst, have recently knocked him off the top spot) he is a man who should be in front of the ICC for his role in the illegal War of Aggression waged against Iraq.

    1. Only the Westminster Political Bubble thinks he has any gravitas or respect in Scotland

    2. He is plain old Mr Brown, he didn’t even get the ex-PMs Peerage or even a Knighthood – that’s how shit he was (and still is)

    Why are Labour trying to breathe life into the Devo dead duck now?

    Brexit in 10 days time, that’s why.

    The Union is over, they know it (I wish the SNP would), it just needs to be announced, 1st January 2021.

  31. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Because electorally BritNat Labour is dead, The FibDem vote has vanished and British Nationalism has coalesced around the Tories in Scotland, I suspect Gove will have Cummings in his UK Union Task Force by now and Cambridge Analytical / MSM will push the BritNat List Party for Holyrood 2021 if the election is held.

  32. Republicofscotland says:

    I think we’re all tired of Red Tory (Labour) promises, Sir Keir Starmer an ennobled millionaire knight of the realm who isn’t even in government is the latest to push more powers for Scotland, if we’ll only continue to remain on our knees in this God awful union, and allow Westminster to drain our assets and use Scotland for whatever purposes (nuclear weapons and subs) it deems fit.

  33. Confused says:

    whenever I hear of “federalism” I reach for my pistol …

    – keep thinking of that scene in “If …” where christine noonan shoots the headmaster in the head as he tries to talk the “rebels” around.

    Too late, much too late.

    Theoretically, if you wanted to do “union” in a fair way between different sized countries you would adopt a US style system – a lower house on population and an upper house, 2 senators per state. Somehow, I do not think the layburr are proposing – turn the Lords into a Senate with 100 senators, 50 from England, 50 from Scotland, with veto power over the lower.

    – we would never hear the end of it, the english bleating about “democracy” and “one man one vote”. In theory our lads could vote down any really bad ideas aimed at us, but even then, it wouldn’ work as there would always be enough bribable Scots to smooth the road.

  34. Heaver says:

    Right enough, at least the virus is evolving.

  35. Alastair Ewen says:


  36. Dave Hansell says:

    This has to be a case of “Chinese Whispers.” Surely, someone has mistaken a Spitting Image sketch for the real thing?

    No? Really?

    We are seriously running with the notion that an out of control faction of entryists into a Westminster political Party who are currently busy:

    – preventing local party units from supporting food banks, poor children and the homeless;

    – banning local party units from engaging in a charity bike ride;

    – cancelling meetings of local party units;

    – issuing instructions to local party units and volunteer members that they cannot discuss certain issues (but won’t say why); an action which repudiates a key finding and requirement of a report from the EHRC and which also contradicts their own consistent actions in regard to publicly discussing/leaking of disciplinary issues;

    – creating an intimidating atmosphere by suspending its own volunteers following a promise to an outside agency by one “leading” luminary to sack thousands of such volunteers;

    – publicly repudiating, in line with its own long established actions, any and all standards of due process principles;

    – selectively disciplining and applying rules and processes to suit convenience by guiding rule breaches depending on who they like and don’t like;

    – agreeing statements with some of its own MP’s and then flip flopping on that position by subsequently disciplining those MP’s for statements it’s “leader” had previously sanctioned;

    can be trusted and relied on to put their underpants on the right way around or on the inside of their keks never mind keep any kind of promise?

    There exists more chance of encountering a fat bearded bloke in a red suit breaking and entering down the chimney this coming Thursday night/Friday morning than relying on anything which originates from these current unscrupulous, lying, sociopathic, carpetbagging charlatans.

    Cromwell, with Charles II, and the French with their aristocracy, knew how to deal with such arrogance, incompetence, and self entitlement.

  37. Muscleguy says:

    @Jockanese Wind Talker
    It’s not beyond possible that a smidgeon of principle and self respect still flutters in el Gordo’s breast and he turned down a peerage or knighthood.

  38. Polly says:

    Labour are ridiculous on many levels and these type of interventions make us all weary.

    @ robertknight says:
    21 December, 2020 at 12:31 pm
    ‘Labour… Jam tomorrow
    SNP… Jam tomorrow
    FibDems…Is it vegan jam?
    Scot Greens…Is it non-binary jam?
    Tories… You’ll get no f**king jam and like it!‘

    Thanks for the laugh Robert, I needed it today.

    @ Jockanese Wind Talker

    ‘2. He is plain old Mr Brown, he didn’t even get the ex-PMs Peerage or even a Knighthood – that’s how shit he was (and still is)’

    He was and is as you say, yet for all that I’d always though that, unlike Darling, he might have had more principles and that might be why he wouldn’t have accepted a seat in the Lords? He was a dithering PM and shown to have been a rubbish Chancellor, he was and is disastrous for Scotland as far as independence goes but I still thought he did try to follow an old Labour course.

  39. robertknight says:

    Perhaps J K K Rowling-in-it could help out …

    Gordy Brooner and the Half-Baked Vow, Part II

    Gordy, who at the conclusion of the Half-Baked Vow Part I was placed in a box marked “DO NOT OPEN UNTIL 2112AD”, is prematurely resurrected with the help of a Tunnocks Tea Cake and a smack across the face with a rolled up Daily Record.

    Gordy’s new Master, a Knight of the Realm no less, sets him off on a mission to conquer Chilly Jock-o-land, beginning with a tour of pensioner’s homes, masonic lodges and primary schools. (Restricted to pensioners homes and masonic lodges later in the story).

    Gordy’s adventures culminate in a final battle involving a bottle crate emblazoned with the magic words “Irn Bru” and a face-off with a baying mob armed only with chicken eggs. Who will win we ask.

    An epic read for all the family. Available at all good book shops.

  40. kapelmeister says:

    Starmer usually looks worried like a football manager one game away from the sack. He needn’t look like that as far as Scotland is concerned since we sacked lying Labour years ago.

  41. Livionian says:

    Rev Stu at 1.22

    Thanks for the response. To me it reeks of opportunism. He has been happy to go along with the green trans agenda for a couple of years, voting with the party whip in every instance. Then in the middle of a slow news weeks he steals headlines by quitting the party. Then the next day gets himself back in the news saying that he won’t rule out running as an independent or for another party.

    Something just seems off about it. Either he is suddenly taking a principled stand, which seems unlikely considering how many times he was willing to leave his morals to the side and suck up to the party leadership. Or he has became happy with the Hollyrood lifestyle, wants to stay there and thinks that the Greens have become so toxic that he couldn’t ride his way to a second term on the back of their ticket, so he calculatingly jumps shipped. My guess is the latter

  42. Saffron Robe says:

    Politicians have no idea of the realities on the ground. They are like a head disconnected from the body. If you walk around Glasgow it’s like an abandoned city – museums shut, cafés shut, swimming pools shut, libraries shut, pubs shut, shops shut – with very little sign of municipal upkeep or maintenance of the city whatsoever.

    I think Nicola Sturgeon has no idea of the realities facing Scotland and therefore no idea of the remedy. She is absorbed in her own fantasies.

  43. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “It’s not beyond possible that a smidgeon of principle and self respect still flutters in el Gordo’s breast and he turned down a peerage or knighthood.”

    Very funny @Muscleguy says at 1:54 pm

    The Clunking Fist reportedly lives off his ‘Charity’ now to the tune of £10K a week.

    A charity that can’t or won’t support vulnerable kids in his old constituency.

    So I don’t believe he has any principles (except for looking out for No. 1).

    It is more likely that Auld Betty decided to get her revenge on Broon and BLiar (no typo) by ensuring they both got fuck all for the decision to ditch the Royal Yacht Britannia.

  44. Stuart MacKay says:


    I think the defamation suit with Wildcat Haven Enterprise knocked a lot of stuffing out of him,

    Now that he has the Scottish Greens millstone removed from around his neck I’m hoping he’ll get back to what he does best, land reform.

  45. Stuart MacKay says:

    So Scotland’s Chief Constable has more power than Nicola,

  46. Breeks says:

    Posting this again…

    Not getting uppity about it, but please read it. It’s an illustration of a Constitutional approach putting pressure in all the right places, and most importantly of all, it culminated in Scotland getting a devolved Parliament. It got a result!

    It’s the SAME approach we should have adopted since the Brexit Referendum when the Sovereign will of Scotland was the diametric opposite of the sovereign will of England, and a Constitutional Standoff was thus inevitable. What wasn’t inevitable was Nicola Sturgeons gutless capitulation.

    We are fools if we believe this matter can be trusted to politicians alone, especially the current crop of them. A Constitutional initiative is a VITAL component in the process, and the SNP has squandered five years fumbling in Constitutional darkness unable to find the light switch.

    Can you imagine the Scottish UN Committee sitting on it’s hands as the clock runs down on Scotland’s Brexit subjugation?

  47. winifred mccartney says:

    Who remembers the chart after the Smith commission which ticked off what each party was prepared to give to Scotland – the tories were giving more than labour – so there you have it – we will not be fooled again. I know I don’t trust a word that comes out of a tory mouth but I would also say I don’t trust a word that comes out of a labour mouth as well.

  48. cynicalHighlander says:


    How valid that is is still questionable as it was prior 2014.

  49. Breeks says:

    cynicalHighlander says:
    21 December, 2020 at 2:47 pm

    How valid that is is still questionable as it was prior 2014.

    I know it’s old news, and the Committee wound itself up after Devolution was delivered… 2008 I think…

    But it’s the process I mean to highlight. A Scottish Committee developing a presence at both the UN and Council of Europe highlighting the democratic deficit in Scotland before Devolution.

    You’re quite right cynicalHighlander that that fight is in the rear view mirror, but we need a similar strategy now, in 2020, to address Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, and brief the UN and Council of Europe on the unlawful subjugation being forced upon Scotland.

  50. Morgatron says:

    Dave Beverage,
    No if memory serves me correctly, it was Golden Bars, performed for the 1st time on No Soul Train(Brown obviously)

  51. SilverDarling says:

    There surely cannot be anyone – even in SLab – who believes this from Starmer. However the Trans fundamentalists are in search of a bandwagon to hitch to and the Greens just won’t get the votes now that their credibility, Andy Wightman, on the environment is gone. How can you believe in climate science but not know that humans cannot change sex?

    So coming soon, the SLab reinvention, a ragbag of opportunistic devolution max, ‘socialist’ intersectionalists.

  52. SilverDarling says:

    How long before we see stuff like this coming from the Twitler youth?

    ‘I have more in common with a Trans Ally in Brighton than I have with a Scottish person about to lose their livelihood due to Brexit who wants Independence’.

  53. Desimond says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker And Muscleguy

    I believe there is a Cheeky story behind Gordo not getting standard Honours after moving out of Nbr10.

    Due to Protocol, Gordo cant be offered some special Order by Madge as they are still awaiting Tony Blairs “Forever Pending acceptance” Decision on his Award so Blair is basically blocking Brown from his Ttles.

    It was in Private Eye a few years back but nice to see Blair still taunting Brown to this day

  54. 100%Yes says:

    Scotland future is now on course and cannot be stopped and that’s Independence. The only thing that worries the English with Scottish Independence is the 200billion pound black whole in its budget. I’m sorry Sir you had your chance to deliver but decided to con and refuse to give any meaningful powers after the 2014 referendum. Isn’t it good news the Border at last has been closed here’s hoping it stays like that.

  55. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    I STV are treating us today on that tenable” tv programme .

    All x unionist Mp’s and Thon John sumit.
    Even Geordie pordi Galloway is there.

  56. Robert Graham says:

    Ah so this is where the phrase SAME SHIT DIFFERENT DAY originated
    I always wondered now I know

  57. Polly says:

    Stuart MacKay

    ‘Now that he has the Scottish Greens millstone removed from around his neck I’m hoping he’ll get back to what he does best, land reform.’

    So do I for we need that desperately in Scotland and he does genuinely believe in it and has done much good work in the past and I hope he will do again in future. However, I’m sceptical about his general principles now since that vote, which he obviously didn’t believe in but still voted for. So I agree with Livionian that feeling for so long as he now said he did about the trans activist issue and how his party responded to it – yet by his own admission he allowed them to cow him and he failed to stand up for his own conscience, far less stand up for many of his female constituents who might have been depending on him should the vote have been close, would make me wonder what other issues could he be lent on to comply with. Being independent of party in parliament might mean fewer party rules, but that doesn’t necessarily mean less pressure to conform, in many ways it might create more, since there will be less chance of getting some of his ideas through. Let’s hope for the best and that he’s learned from the experience.

  58. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    “Blair is basically blocking Brown from his Titles.”

    Wouldn’t it be great if a journalist (aye, I know there aren’t any worthy of the job description in Scotland) asked him if there was any truth in this rumor the next time he was wheeled out to give us his “Closest thing to Federalism” routine @Desimond says at 3:19 pm

    Along the lines of:

    “Mr Brown is it true Tony Blair is blocking your Honours, or did you just not get any because you were so bad at being PM and pissed off the Queen?”

    His scrunched up thinking face and humming and hawing as he flailed around for an answer before stomping off in the huff would be pure comedy gold (and guarantee Millions of hits on Youtube)!

  59. Stuart MacKay says:


    Andy has moved the topic of land reform by leaps and bounds. I’m sure he thought that getting into parliament would yield only dividends but obviously party membership comes with a lot of obligations and costs. Perhaps now he has more freedom we’ll get back to some progress once more. The track record of the SNP shows that land reform is a topic too large and too important for one part or perhaps any party. It’s an issue bound closely to the entire population and I am hoping we can get back to that point and stop political parties from mucking it up or derailing it for their own selfish ends.

  60. Polly says:

    Stuart MacKay at 3:38 pm

    Indeed, and hear, hear, I hope it can be so.

  61. Ottomanboi says:

    In order to find meaningful dissent in our paranoid time you have to turn to sites like Wings or Offguardian.
    Billionaire “philanthropists” through donations to media are silencing alternative perspectives. Politicians too are susceptible to the schmoozing, somewhat easy prey actually.
    If our representatives and journalists stay silent they must be held to consent to any global ‘new order’.
    Any projected new independence political formation in Scotland must be alert to such snakes in the heather. Independence means freedom and the right to challenge and question authority

  62. Big Jock says:

    Well the virus has done a damn sight more for independence than Sturgeon. It managed to close the Scottish border. Sturgeon can’t even bring herself to talk about any plans to reinstate our sovereignty.

  63. holymacmoses says:

    Starmer and Brown have no interest in Scotland other than it represents a region of the UK that they want to win over to boost the fortunes of the Labour Party. The area is a slice of Westminster Cake and it happens to be one which has provided a lovely variety of fillings and toppings for Britannia’s sponges over decades of decades. Not only is it a creative and productive zone it also houses a manageable number of compliant members who are prepared to accept nuclear weapons on behalf of third powers, just to please the Queens and their Consorts.

  64. robert Hughes says:

    I appreciate this is not the place to argue all the myriad inconsistencies , recieved opinion and outright nonsense surrounding the Virus Issue , but a wee acknowledgement to you Ottomanboi ( and Bipod ) , I’ve found you comments on the subject interesting and well argued , and have been in agreement with almost all of them . I resist the demonisation of Bill Gates though , yet to be convinced he is malevolent misanthrope he’s often depicted as .

  65. robert Hughes says:

    ” your … ” ” the ….”

  66. Hatuey says:

    The Scottish border isn’t closed. It’s as open as ever. And planes are coming and going from London to Glasgow and Edinburgh as I type. Not that any of that matters; the new strain of the virus has been getting pumped into Scotland’s veins for weeks.

    Scotland is expected to go down with the ship. Actually, a better analogy is provided by the Hindu tradition of Sati whereby the widow is required to throw herself onto her dead husband’s funeral pyre and burn to death alongside him.

  67. Republicofscotland says:

    Another excellent article by Robin McAlpine, if only he was our FM we’d be independent by now.

  68. Stuart MacKay says:


    Sir Keith and Dour Gordon couldn’t have seen the BBC’s election night map. Scotland is nothing more than a strategic fig-leaf in the figment of old socialists’ imaginations that somehow the industries that fueled the British Empire can once more be revived and greatness restored to this most noble of countries, where the working class know their place and know when to doff the cap and bend the knee when a Knight of the Realm commands it.

    Starmer is establishment through and through. His imperial aspirations are as solid as the most blue-blooded of Conservatives.

  69. Gaelstorm says:

    You have it exactly right.

  70. BuggerLePanda says:

    robert Huges

    I thought this thread was about Starmer and Labour’s incontinent dribblings on devolution/ federalism ?

  71. Alf Baird says:

    Devolution, which may be perceived as a ‘psychological windfall’, though is more a ‘colonialist maneuver’, and is still colonialism; hence more devolution is simply more colonialism. And, moreover: “the native must realise that colonialism never gives anything away for nothing” (Fanon 1967).

  72. Robert Hughes says:

    Yes , that’s why I qualified my comment before posting it . On topic , Broon is a pure tube and no one in their right mind would give him a moments consideration

  73. Republicofscotland says:

    So we have Starmer, not in government promising the same old tired pipe dreams of more devolution to Holyrood, if we’ll kowtow to Westminster. Now Brown pops up and adds his tuppence worth that Holyrood shouldn’t be administering its own benefits when it could be done by Westminster.

    IN my opinion the Labour party in Scotland is now a complete irrelevance, and no one should even consider voting for them for the forseeable future

  74. susanXX says:

    Federalism is impossible for at least 3 reasons

    1) England hugely overpowers the smaller nations

    2) England doesn’t want it

    3) scotland needs independence.

    Scotland is a completely different country from england and 300years of subjugation has not changed that.

  75. Robert graham says:

    The most powerful devolved parliament in the world

    Remember that load of Pish ,

    The thing is they were right ,no other country on the planet would have accepted this idea as a system of government .

    Well our political parties did and we fell for it hook line and bloody sinker

    Devolution is a Trap and begging England to escape it is evidence, another bloody stupid game bugger this section whatever it’s called we don’t need it and Unionists are making sure most Scots don’t find out we don’t and never have, this of course has been ably assisted by the SNP , Why oh Why do they persist with this gold standard bloody pointless excercise ,
    No wonder Bawjaws laughs everytime as SNP MP opens their mouths , the stupid Jocks are playing Westminsters game and doing it very badly , enough to make you weep .

  76. The bottom line is that there’s a 30-ton juggernaut heading right at us in the wrong lane and our “leaders” are asleep at the wheel.

    Sainsburys are already talking about running out of certain food items in the next few days so you can imagine how things are going to pan out.

    It took absolute genius to lump this Brexit debacle on top of a global pandemic. Still, St Nicola of Bute House needs to focus on just one thing at a time.

    We really are fked.

  77. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I happen to welcome the intervention of Sir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB QC MP and the Labour Party in this matter.

    During such grim times a voice such as Sir Kiers is needed to lift the Nation.

    We all need a laugh and Sir Kier has in a small way contributed to us all having a giggle.

    Let’s call it vow 2.

    No one believes it but no one can deny its funny.

    For a final laugh let’s hear it from Gordon Brown that old war criminal is always good for a laugh.

  78. Republicofscotland says:

    Good article from Iain Lawson, on why our borders should be closed to protect us from the Covid variant running amok in England, but Sturgeon fails yet again to protect Scots.

  79. CameronB Brodie says:

    Back in the day, the Scottish public were actively encouraged to engage with politics. Now folks are being asked to turn a blind eye to a lack of professionalism, and fed a diet of hostility and exclusion. Along with a narrative of pretty much ‘There Is No Alternative’. Which as Daisy Walker suggests on the previous thread, threatens to turn all but the most dedicated, away from the cause of liberal democracy. Just when democracy is in most need of critical public engagement, that isn’t directed by the combined force of corporate interests and the radical right.

  80. Ottomanboi says:

    This was anticipated in 1909.
    In a short story by E.M. Forster.
    No excuse for claiming we were not forewarned.
    The silence of world political establishments is significant.
    Alexa says, Be safe, be happy and trust in the Overlords.

    “The people who must never have power are the humorless. To impossible certainties of rectitude they ally tedium and uniformity.” — Christopher Hitchens.

  81. On 15 December 2020, Glen Campbell was announced as BBC Scotland’s political editor, beginning in January 2021.

    was it Campbell that ripped up SNP Manifesto in front of BBC cameras a few years ago,

    BBC and Brutish Labour doing the classic,

    `The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.`

    BBC and Brutish Labour have lost Scotland and will never get it back `hell mend them all`.

  82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Just heard Rear Charmer on Reporting Scotland.

    He seems to have ‘Edmillipede Syndrome” – most of his speech output sounds like it’s coming down either side of his nasal septum…

  83. Dunadd says:

    Keir Starmer has said it would be “irresponsible” for the Prime Minister to “grant” a Scottish independence referendum.

    It would be “irresponsible” for the people of Scotland to “grant” either of these clowns a vote.

    Plebiscite independence election May 2021 please.

  84. willie says:

    So that’s Sir Keith Starmer trying Wow us with a new Vow.

    Don’t think so sunshine!

    Unelectable in England, Starmer is dead meat in Scotland, just like his party. As the Rev would say ……away and fuck off!

  85. Effijy says:

    Thanks Sir!
    Your party hid the NcCrone Report, Stoke 6,000 square miles
    of Scottish Waters and did nothing for Scotland since the 1960’s.

    Your leaders sheer incompetence and self interest left you happy to
    be second fiddle to the Tories for most of my life.

    Brown signed the Vow of which every single promise was broken.
    Brown deliberately lied and scaremongered about no Scottish pensions,
    No NHS, No Transplant waiting lists and no Blood transfusion units.

    He and the Red Tory Labour Party have been complete robbing bastards
    when it comes to Scotland.

    I’d listen to my bin man before I’d listen to Labour.
    Id trust a medium telling me they were David Bowie before that lot.

    Bowie’s song Ashes to Ashes best suits Labour in Scotland

  86. CameronB Brodie says:

    Back in the day, I thought the SNP stood against the cultural chauvinism and discriminatory nature of the British state. Now I see they’ve adopted Westminster’s approach to democracy. Which is to support the principle of Parliamentary sovereignty above all other legal principles. This means Westminster is a self-serving legislature, and not suited to supporting the principle of equality in law.

    The Proportional Internalization Principle in Private Law

    “According to common conception, laws should make actors internalize all the costs and benefits of their actions to make them behave efficiently. This article shows that even when only partial internalization is possible, private law can create efficient incentives by ensuring that each actor internalizes an identical proportion of the costs and benefits.

    This proportional internalization principle has profound implications. In tort law, it offers a new mechanism for dividing liability between multiple parties. In contract law, it suggests a new default rule for joint ventures. And, in restitution law, it presents an alternative doctrinal formulation for restitution for unrequested benefit.”

  87. Beaker says:

    @robertknight says:
    21 December, 2020 at 12:31 pm

    More jam tomorrow:

    Labour… Scotland will be allowed to choose it’s own jam.
    SNP… includes marmalade or peanut butter identifying as jam.
    FibDems…we like anything sticky.
    Scot Greens…not allowed as it has sugar in it and the CO2 emissions are too high but we don’t give a fuck if we have enough seats to annoy everyone else.
    Tories… Confiture Parisienne only please (check the fucking price!)

  88. Heaver says:

    That child abusing fundraiser the Rev highlighted a few days ago has changed:

    1. The target has been reduced, and met.
    2. The poor boys’ face has been hidden.
    3. The blurb is gone.

    I’m guessing the profit has been taken before the investigation freezes the fund, unless the investigation has made these changes. We shall see.

  89. Lothianlad says:

    Again an excellent post from Stu. Yep the people I now despise the most are not I the lying scottish brit nat media. They’re not even I the unionist dead as a dead duck liebour party.

    The people I despise the most are the careerist, nature denying, mI5 infiltrated SNP leadership.

    At a time when we could be independent by attacking g the shambles against us, Sturgeon and her woke inner circle are playing for time to destroy the SNP from within.

    Hate is a powerful word, but I really feel I hate her and her marriage of convenience husband. .

    Unless she is removed, the SNP will become the unionist devo party against Scotland.

    The indy movement seriously needs to get together and organise soon, to plan for taking g independence.

    Keep exposing Sturgeon Stu!! Make the people aware of what shes really about!

    Its frightening the loyalty these facebook sturgeon fan clubs go to . I’ve been banned from most of them

    Nae loss

  90. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK, perhaps I am trying to train folk in law now. 🙂

    Moral Realism and the Heuristics Debate

    “There has been substantial debate about whether certain forms of universal moral intuitions “exist” – intuitions that are non-reflective and undefended – and, if so, whether these intuitions have a privileged normative status. This debate arguably has implications for jurisprudential debates about the existence of “natural law.”

    This essay explores the underappreciated homology between one instantiation of the debates about the nature and quality of intuitive “moral” reasoning, and debates, associated with the Heuristics and Biases (H&B) school and the “Fast and Frugal” (F&F) school, about the nature and quality of our capacity to make “self-interested” decisions.”

  91. A Person says:

    My dear old grandparents voted, before I was born, for the Unionist Party whose philosophy was laid down by John Buchan and prioritised imperial links, unionism and monarchism, with a strongly Presbyterian ethos. For about fifty years until the Sixties it dominated Scottish politics. But then the world of John Buchan and the Church of Scotland and the empire and the Sunday Post vanished and so did the Unionists.

    Its the same with Scottish Labour. The world of the industrial trade unions, the council house, women who knew their place, the Daily Record and devolution- with all the decent chaps from the Glasgow University Union in charge- as the solution to
    our problems. are just a vanished age. I’m in my mid-fifties and it feels antiquated, to my kids it’s another planet.

    So, “what the Scotsman thinks of Keir Starmer’s devolution plans” is just a weird, minority interest, pointless nothingness.

  92. Dan says:

    I’d be very appreciative if Labour were to send me a whole box of VOW 2s… because a trip tae toon this afternoon highlighted that the bog paper wars had apparently resumed this morning…

    The only concern I have with such a cunning plan is that there might be more rather than less shite on my ass after wiping it with a sheet of VOW2…

    UK Shopper And The Hunt For The Last Loo Roll

  93. Saffron Robe says:

    It didn’t take long for Britain to descent into chaos and become a pariah state…and that’s before Brexit kicks in!

    And if this new strain of coronavirus is “super infectious”, does that mean the measures we’ve been under for the past nine months have been for a not so “super infectious” disease? There is also a difference between “super infectious” and “super deadly”. The common cold is super infectious. I remember back when the first lockdown was imposed we were told that “we’re having to take these tough measures now so that we won’t have to later on”!

    A random thought: if this is Year Zero of the Great Reset, does that mean next year will be Year Minus One?

    PS. I agree with other commentators re Gordon Brown. Brown in name and brown in nature!

  94. CameronB Brodie says:

    Without a legally defensible identity, it is extremely difficult to protect yourself against harms caused by individuals and governments. That’s fine and dandy according to a BritNat view of the law, as BritNats are eager to strip Scots of an authentic and substantive constitutional identity. The sovereignty of Westminster is embedded in English culture, so is unlikely to be forced to accommodate the opposing interests of a cultural minority. So you’re on to plumbs if you hope to enjoy the benefits of democracy living in Brexitania.

    Facing Up To Risk

    “By banishing decision-making in the face of uncertainty (risk) to the margins of tort theory, nonconsequentialist legal philosophers have obscured the quotidian, unavoidable, and ubiquitous tradeoffs we face in almost every arena of life. This article explores the historical antecedents of the marginalization of risk in contemporary moral philosophy, and details how legal philosophers have deflected the challenge that risk poses to any nonconsequentialist theory of tort liability.”

  95. Stoker says:

    In relation to the article at the top of this thread, here’s another example of how long it takes the Labour Party not to deliver promises 😉

  96. James Barr Gardner says:

    As Ma auld Heilan Grannie used tae say: A Green Ner’Day means a fu’ Kirk yard !

    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is not the least embarrassed about Herd Immunity.

    KARMA is coming !

  97. Brent Crude up to $52.26 pb,

    highest since February.

  98. AberdeenPict says:

    Clwyd Griffiths says:
    21 December, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    Really good link and sums it up perfectly.

  99. Dan says:

    Aye Scot, but we’re told it’s the wrong type of oil…

  100. Iain More says:

    Who is going to believe the bloke that wouldn’t prosecute Jimmy Saville? I suppose the BBC and several of its employees like Wark and Smith. THE VOW! THE VOW! THE VOW!

  101. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    @AberdeenPict thanks, yes agree.

  102. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scots are told a lot of things that all help maintain the British state, which only exists by ignoring universal principles of legal doctrine and international law.

    Impossibility, Impracticability, and Frustration

    “Three fundamental concepts underlie the principles that should govern unexpected-circumstances cases. (1) A contract consists not only of the writing in which it is partly embodied, but also includes, among other things, certain kinds of tacit assumptions. (2) These assumptions may be either event-centered or magnitude-centered. (3) The problems presented by unexpected-circumstances cases should be viewed in significant part through a remedial lens.

    The principles that rest on these concepts can be broadly summarized as follows. A shared nonevaluative tacit assumption that a given circumstance will persist, occur, or not occur during the contract time should provide a basis for judicial relief where the assumption would have affected the promisor’s obligations had it been made explicit. If the promisor was neither at fault for the occurrence of the unexpected circumstance, nor in control of the conditions that led to the occurrence, she should not be liable for expectation damages. The promisor should, however, be liable for restitutionary damages, because it would be unjust to allow the promisor to both be excused from performance and retain any benefits that she received under the contract.

    Alternatively, the promisor should be liable for reliance damages where she is at fault for the creation of the unexpected circumstance, but the fault is minor; where the promisor is in control of the conditions that led to the occurrence of the unexpected circumstances; or where an objective of the contract was to reserve for the promisor the promisee’s time, labor, or productive capacity.

    A seller should also be entitled to judicial relief if as a result of a dramatic and unexpected rise in her costs, performance would result in a financial loss that is significantly greater than the risk of loss that the parties would reasonably have expected that the seller had undertaken. If, under such circumstances, the market value of the contracted-for commodity has risen in tandem with the seller’s costs, the buyer should be entitled to the profit he would have made if a reasonably foreseeable increase in the seller’s cost of performance, and a corresponding increase in the market value of the commodity, had occurred.

    In appropriate cases, courts should take into account gains and losses to both parties that proximately resulted from, or were made possible by, the occurrence of the unexpected circumstance.”

  103. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Dan @ 10.22pm

    Brent Crude is the right type of oil, at the moment. It doesn’t become the wrong type of oil until the Holyrood Election campaign begins – then it becomes worthless.

  104. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m very conscious of punting a lot of law on this thread, but that really is the best way to counter BritNats like Brown and Starmer. Scots are about to lose a significant amount of legal protections so that Westminster can accommodate right-wing English nationalism. Yet ‘our’ legal offices can’t find a way of defending our national interests. Though the FM does appear to have a lot of time for recreational reading and dismantling the legal rights of natal women. Meanwhile, the best British nationalism can offer are these ‘bastions’ of social democracy, who would rather Scots harm their own self-interests than break their precious yoonyawn.

    Extremism and Social Learning

    “When members of deliberating groups speak with one another, their predeliberation tendencies often become exacerbated as their views become more extreme. The resulting phenomenon — group polarization — has been observed in many settings, and it bears on the actions of juries, administrative tribunals, corporate boards, and other institutions.

    Polarization can result from rational Bayesian updating by group members, but in many contexts, this rational interpretation of polarization seems implausible. We argue that people are better seen as Credulous Bayesians, who insufficiently adjust for idiosyncratic features of particular environments and put excessive weight on the statements of others in situations of (1) common sources of information; (2) highly unrepresentative group membership; (3) statements that are made to obtain approval; and (4) statements that are designed to manipulate.

    Credulous Bayesianism can produce extremism and significant blunders – the folly of crowds. We discuss the implications of Credulous Bayesianism for law and politics, including media policy and cognitive diversity on administrative agencies and courts.”

  105. Derek says:

    Clwyd Griffiths says:
    21 December, 2020 at 3:41 pm

    Thanks for that; an interesting read.

  106. Robert Graham says:

    Oh well still dreaming of Independence on WGD
    bless them anyone willing to break the news to them ?
    A blissful ignorance a wonderful state to be in almost like being drunk

  107. Famous15 says:

    I will accept all sorts of negativity but I will NEVER accept the news being broken to me that the dream has died.

    The dream will never die!

    Independence is normal.

  108. Ronald Fraser says:

    Did anybody notice tge wee Edinburgh Yoon Ian Murray doing the rounds on the telly this morning???

    He looked as if somebody had broken his nose.

    That’s no ferr, A wiz want tae dae that.

  109. Ronald Fraser says:


    Independence IS normal.

    But you are anything but.

    You are a wee abnormal Sturgeonista.

    Now get your arse back to the Wee Gingerbread Man, you know it makes sense.

  110. Beaker says:

    The spread of COVID is due to two factors:

    1. How dense the population is.
    2. How dense the population is.

  111. Effijy says:

    Scotland’s oil is so lucrative to Westminster they
    had to make its potential wealth top secret for 30 years.

    They looked us in the eye and assured us it would run out
    in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, 00’s, Teens and now 20’s.

    They have credited our oil as unique being the wrong type and
    that type that is constantly running out.

    They have just laid a sea bed pipeline that is designed to bring
    oil ashore fo the next 50 years.

    And there you have it, a 100 year long lie from Westminster as
    they fill their pockets with our resources.

    I wouldn’t trust anything a Westminster politician Swears to, Vows, Pledges,
    or promises.

  112. MaggieC says:

    Just listened to Gordon Brown on radio Scotland and he insisted that
    “ The Vow “ from 2014 was delivered . LOL LOL .

  113. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Countering Starmer’s latest pile of Labour shite should be very-easy for the SNP – if that party was in any way competent.

    All they ahve to do is produce a list of all the proposals for devolved powers which they have made to the Smith Commission and other relevant bodies – with an accompanying list of all of those opposed by Labour.

    There wouldn’t be much difference in the two lists.

  114. MaggieC says:

    Socrates MacSporran @ 7.16 am ,

    Here’s the list of devolved powers that the parties voted for and against coming to Scotland ,

    From Colin Dunn ,

    “ The strategy of Labour’s ‘new’ devolution commission, as always, will be “What is the absolute minimum devolution we can get away with offering Scotland?”

  115. Sensibledave says:

    …still think you’ve all it this the wrong way round. Ms Sturgeon isn’t pushing indyref 2 at the Mo’ …. because she is intelligent enough to know that it can’t be won at the moment. Project Fear 2 based around no Eu, Scottish currency, deficit, austerity, borders, etc will be a huge barrier. I watched the recent video with Andrew Neil v Andrew Wilson … a taster of what would come.

  116. ScotsRenewables says:

    Ronald Fraser answer me this,

    Name one thing you have done to advance the cause of Scottish independence.

    Na, thought not. Meanwhile, WGD has brought thousands onside.

    We really don’t need your sort of unpleasantness. Are you George Galloway?

  117. ScotsRenewables says:

    Indyref or any kind of upfront SNP-led campaigning has just been kicked in the teeth – again – by the virus. All we can do is sit back and let Boris do the heavy lifting.

  118. McDuff says:


    And what has Sturgeon done in the past six years to reassure the public about currency. borders, pensions, deficit, austerity, and the EU? Answer is heehaw.
    How on earth do you fight for indy without addressing these concerns. And why has she not being doing that.
    So please don’t use Sturgeon and intelligent in the same sentence.

  119. ScotsRenewables says:

    Grassroots Oban is hosting a meeting with Graeme McCormick on Annual Ground, Roof and Floor rent this evening, details on the website.

  120. Bob Mack says:


    India only established a Reserve bank in 1938.They traditionally had many coins and bullion related to various districts. They only became a modern currency and computerised about 10 years ago.

    Scots had their own pound prior to the Union and there is nothing to stop them going back to it, or using the Dollar.

    Scotland would face no more problems than any other country who shrugs off English rule. Perhaps if we had few resources you would have a point, but we do.

    Under your philosophy every country who ever gained Independence from the Empire should have failed, but they haven’t. Why should they succeed and we fail?

    Its not a sensible viewpoint.

  121. Effijy says:

    I think I deserve a told you so?

    Banner on ITV News claims Brexit Deal close as UK
    concedes greater access to Scotland’s Fish.

    I added the word Scotland above, as its banned on UK media unless coupled
    with the word bad.

    Next you will see Hero Boris Johnson who told the EU what is what
    and reconfirmed England as the world’s leading race.

    I’ll never give up but it’s over.
    If the EU are happy with England who are giving them our fish, they will have
    absolutely no interest in our sovereignty or democracy.

    To deliver such a catastrophic failure on Scottish Independence I can only conclude
    that SNP is rife with Unionist plants.

    Open goal after open goal and the ball is on the stadium roof!

  122. MaggieC says:

    Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    Update from Judicial Review page ,

    Access to legal advice , At its meeting on 15 December the Committee agreed—
    That the Committee considers that in order to discharge its duties, it needs to see the legal advice from counsel and associated minutes of meetings relating to the Judicial Review with LPP waived and that this needs to be published in the interests of transparency; agrees to continue discussions with the Scottish Government including to secure access to this legal advice in a reading room to be provided by 14 January 2021; in the interim accepts the Scottish Government offer to read the former DGODO’s report of 29th December 2018; subject to agreement that notes can be taken to refer to in questioning Scottish Government witnesses and that these witnesses should not refer to legal privilege in answering questions relating to the report; insists that the SG waives LPP over the document so as to enable publication of whatever contents the Committee deems fit.

    The Committee agreed the terms of an offer negotiated with the Government on 18 December to access the report referred to in the motion in a reading room on 22 December:Link to the written agreement (88KB pdf) –

    Following the discussions with the Scottish Government, Committee Convener, Linda Fabiani MSP said—
    “The Committee has been consistently clear on its position on legal advice. The Committee believes that to fulfil the vital task that Parliament has set it, it needs to see legal advice including from counsel. It continues to push to see this advice in full and believes that it has to be published.
    “In the meantime, the Committee has agreed to accept the terms of an offer negotiated with the Scottish Government to read a report which includes some of the legal advice. A redacted copy of this report will publish after the Committee sees the full report on 22 December.”

    The Committee agreed the terms of an offer negotiated with the Government on 18 December to access the report referred to in the motion in a reading room on 22 December:

  123. Davie Oga says:

    Two third parties negotiating away Scotland’s fish and silence from house jock SNP.

  124. TruthForDummies says:

    If NS just absolutely hopeless at strategy or is it deliberate

    She’s back to stopping Brexit asking for a delay because of Covid. Easy for unionists to respond….can’t have a independence referendum then. She is putting forward the narrative that Covid should delay constitutional change

    Does she realise how strategically inept this is?

    I despair.

  125. Breeks says:

    The Scotland UN Committee was wound up in 2007, but does anybody know who was actually on that Committee?

    I cannot imagine they take a benign opinion of Scotland’s subjugation.

  126. Ottomanboi says:

    Effijy 08:10
    Given the apparent strategic importance of the British state’s Scottish territory it would be consistent to have placed moles within the National party.
    The current state of that party indicates considerable infiltration, all those woke mole hills and total loss of focus.

  127. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Maggie C @ 7.27am

    Thanks for that. This morning, I had a look at Munguin’s New Republic, where they have published a graph of the various political parties’ positions on taxations etc to be devolved to Scotland.

    The Tories are actually prepared to give Scotland more control of things than Labour.

  128. NellG says:


    I can’t see how the SNP have not been infiltrated to the very top as no other plausible explanation works out in my view. Thinking about the timing of the GRA and HCB leading into Brexit, the total and complete surrender of our sovereignty, the smearing and attempted jailing of seasoned ‘Yes’ activists, allowing Covid to run rampant. No Fkn planning or groundwork carried out for independence since 2014!! There is no other explanation. Nobody is that incompetent.

  129. ahundredthidiot says:

    I’m sure Broonie and Bowie have plenty in common.

    DB was shagging 13 year olds.

  130. Ottomanboi says:

    “Terror can rule absolutely only over men who are isolated against each other… Therefore, one of the primary concerns of all tyrannical government is to bring this isolation about. Isolation may be the beginning of terror; it certainly is its most fertile ground; it always is its result. This isolation is, as it were, pretotalitarian; its hallmark is impotence insofar as power always comes from men acting together…; isolated men are powerless by definition”

    “While isolation concerns only the political realm of life, loneliness concerns human life as a whole. Totalitarian government, like all tyrannies, certainly could not exist without destroying the public realm of life, that is, without destroying, by isolating men, their political capacities. But totalitarian domination as a form of government is new in that it is not content with this isolation and destroys private life as well. It bases itself on loneliness, on the experience of not belonging to the world at all, which is among the most radical and desperate experiences of man”

    Hanna ARENDT

  131. kapelmeister says:

    We’re in this situation because the SNP are British. With too many of their politicians cosily drawing their salaries and not caring enough to effect a change.

  132. Sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack & Effigy

    You could be right I suppose. It could be that the woman that has fought for Scottish Independence since she was a lass and has become one of the most popular (with voters) leaders of a country that I can think of … is actually an MI5 agent or likes her salary too much to risk indyref?

    Alternatively, she may believe, realistically, the Yessers have one more chance for an indyref (or that will be it for a generation) … and right now, she judges, for the reasons I have alluded to, the risks are too high and the odds are that indyref 2 would be lost if held in the near future.

    Now, it is possible I am wrong. Although I can’t remember an occasion where I have been wrong before … because I am just so sensible!

    If you watch the “Andrew’s” interview on YouTube, one is left with the distinct impression that Scotland would be outside the U.K. and outside the the EU for at least 10 years. The “floaters” are unlikely to go for that, whilst managing austerity that makes recent times look like a picnic.

  133. robert Hughes says:

    Ottomanboi – “In an ever-changing, incomprehensible world the masses had reached the point where they would, at the same time, believe everything and nothing, think that everything was possible and that nothing was true. … Mass propaganda discovered that its audience was ready at all times to believe the worst, no matter how absurd, and did not particularly object to being deceived because it held every statement to be a lie anyhow. The totalitarian mass leaders based their propaganda on the correct psychological assumption that, under such conditions, one could make people believe the most fantastic statements one day, and trust that if the next day they were given irrefutable proof of their falsehood, they would take refuge in cynicism; instead of deserting the leaders who had lied to them, they would protest that they had known all along that the statement was a lie and would admire the leaders for their superior tactical cleverness.”
    ? Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism

  134. Bob Mack says:


    I have to laugh whdn you talk about living through austerity as being impossible. In my lifetime there’s been plenty.
    Tax at 38% at one stage but it never stopled me getting what I wanted in life.

    Austerity is not new and neither is it the be all and end all of everything. Economies can grow.

  135. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    The VOW MK 2, aka Would you trust this man?

    The Leader of ‘The Workers Party’ Sir Kier Starmer:

    “when the SNP proposed an investigation into Blair’s apparent lying in the run up to the war – bolstered by findings from the Chilcot report – Sir Keir voted against it.”

    Starmer voted for Trident in 2016, and worked tirelessly to secure Labour’s support for the Investigatory Power Bill, which expanded state surveillance and authorised the bulk collection of digital communications.

    As Labour Leader he whipped his members to abstain on the vote on the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill which allows Government Employees and informants commit crimes without the risk of prosecution.

    As DPP, Sir Keir tempered his love of liberty by fast-tracking the extradition of Julian Assange (a process now making its way through the courts).

    He flouted legal precedents by advising Swedish lawyers not to question Assange in Britain: a decision that prolonged the latter’s legal purgatory, denied closure to his accusers in Sweden, and sealed his fate before a US show trial.”

    Starmer also approved a decision not to prosecute any police over the shooting (execution) of Jean Charles de Menezes in Operation Kratos – described by critics as a “shoot to kill” policy.

    The Met had been trained/advised by Israeli security forces in the months leading up to this shooting in July 2005.

    Sir Keir Starmer also apparently helped paedophile Jimmy Saville evade justice in 2009. It’s claimed that the Police force referred four cases to Britain’s Crown Prosecution Service – headed by Kier Starmer.

    That’s before you look at his connections to Israeli lobbyists a personal donation of £50,000 from Sir Trevor Chin who has made donations to many leading Labour figures in the past including Tony Blair and Tom Watson!

    And this from Starmer himself “I said it loud and clear — and meant it — that I support Zionism without qualification.”

    Never forget that BritNat Labour is the UK Establishments B-Team.

    They are currently being rehabilitated in the public consciousness via the BBC/MSM in preparation to replace the Tories, lest real change occurs which threatens their place at the top of the greasy pole!

    Note the constant media attacks on Labour have stopped now Corbyn has been binned and a self-confessed Zionist (link above) Neo-Con has been installed as Leader

    Imagine the media frenzy if Corbyn had hit a cyclist when he was preforming an illegal manoeuvre whilst driving!

  136. NellG says:


    Do not confuse the rising polls with support for Nicola. No Deal Brexit and the Bojo effect I would suggest are far larger catalysts for the rise. Yes she has probably gotten through to some pensioners but it’s all smoke and mirrors with zero substance. No preparations for Indy since 2014 in the face of Brexit says everything.

    Is she an MI5 plant? potentially, I wouldn’t put it past the British State. Her marriage of convenience with Murrell who lurks in the shadows taking complete control of the party seems like the kind of state sponsored infiltration they would excel at and would make perfect sense. It could just be simple blackmail, we’ll probably never know. My own MSP is open to the idea that the SNP have been infiltrated.

    My advice would be to have an open mind on such matters and prepare yourself for the possibility that we’ve all been had. She’s already courting for a UN job, probably far, far away from the Brexit backlash. That doesn’t seem like someone committed to the cause.

  137. Republicofscotland says:

    Come this April Scottish projects will miss out on a whopping £1.2 billion pounds of funding from the EU, that’s the date when the EU stop giving funding to Scotland and Westminster supposedly steps in to take over, we all of course know that Westminster has no real intentions of funding that amount to Scots projects.

  138. Republicofscotland says:

    Playing to the gallery that’s all that Sturgeon did yesterday when she asked Johnson to delay Brexit talks, she knows fine well that Johnson doesn’t and hasn’t heeded a single word she’s said on Brexit since day one, we know it, Johnson knows it, and so does Sturgeon. To add insult to injury the Mayor of London, who called Scots seeking independence racists, backed Sturgeon’s plea.

    It was Mike Russell who said that the Scottish government hadn’t been had any contact on Brexit from the British Nationalist government on Brexit since July 2019. We just don’t matter one little jot to Johnson, Sturgeon knows this and her outcry to curry favour not only lacks substance but shows us that she’s still trying to stop what Johnson’s doing, instead of taking care of business at home by plotting our escape next year out of this hellish union.

  139. Republicofscotland says:

    First we had Ross, the Tory branch manager in Scotland claim that his Holyrood rabble, would boycott a court found legal Scottish independence referendum, now we have the scoundrels form the Lib/Dem and Labour branch offices in Scotland, calling for May’s Scottish elections to be delayed due to the virus.

    It would be very convenient for them if it were to be called off, considering that they’re so far behind in the polls. Reading Sturgeon’s comments on it in the National newspaper, I think it will be delayed, for how long though I’m not sure, possibly long enough for the British Nationalists to put a solid plan in place to oppose the SNP and independence.

    Scots are but cattle being led by the nose by Sturgeon and Westminster for now at least.

  140. Republicofscotland says:

    So everytime France decides to close its borders with the UK Scotland will be at the mercy of England on what supplies reach us. Its more than likely that if there’s a no post Brexit deal that French fishermen will blockade French ports to UK goods entering their country, again Scotland will be at the mercy of England’s grace as it has been for over 300 years.

    So knowing this why hasn’t Sturgeon upgraded any of our Eastern seaport to accommodate shipping traffic in a future independent Scotland, why did she waste half a billion pounds of taxpayers money trying to imprison a former FM instead.

    The truth is that Sturgeon hasn’t planned anything for an independent Scotland, no currency, no central bank etc, for there will be no need to, for there’s not going to be an independence referendum next year under her leadership.

  141. Gaelstorm says:

    I have avoided the entire shitshow; I don’t even know what was said. It’s a total irrelevance from an zombie party.

  142. Sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack

    I am not arguing with the idea that economies can grow during times of “austerity”. The last 10 years show that they can.

    My point is simply that not enough Scottish voters will be convinced of the proposition that now is the time for Scottish independence. There is simply too much ammunition for Project Fear 2.

    As I wrote, there is always a possibility that I could be wrong. However, it would be a rare occurrence!

    So my belief is that Ms Sturgeon is caught between a rock and a hard place. Play to the gallery and get indyref now – or take all the crap in the knowledge that she is doing the right thing for those Scots that want to actually achieve Independence, rather than blow it now in a fight that she doesn’t think can be won.

  143. Stuart MacKay says:


    I can only find two names, John J.G. McGill (secretary), and Willie McRae (founder).

    However I did find a ton of interesting stuff on, including this, which gives some background on the Scotland-UN Committee and this on fisheries, which seems appropriate.

    The Glory Days of ’79 – when Men were Men and Women were Women. What a pathetic excuse for a government we have now in comparison.

  144. Alf Baird says:


    You are right, shipping and seaports are vital for trade, and trade growth is an essential requirement for any nation’s economic growth. This should seem obvious, even to weel peyed SNP Ministers and their officials.

    However these not insignificant matters of national strategic importance did not register with Holyrood’s ‘Trade Minister’ Mr. McKie and his officials, whom I met over a year ago to discuss this very subject and the need for what I called ‘Brexit Bypass’ ferry corridors. This matter has also been raised with Transport Scotland officials, likewise to no avail. Inertia seems to be the main activity at Holyrood, especially when it comes to perceived reserved areas – such as trade – in which officials tend to take the Whitehall line.

    Despite a vast coastline, if we don’t sort out our ports and strategic international shipping connections, Scotland will become even more ‘landlocked’ than it is already, like Bolivia or Malawi, which explains why our trade flows are already constrained due to excessive dependence on ports and shipping connections in England.

    The first thing most former colonies have had to do is, yes, sort out their own ports! And once that is done, you never know what it might lead to, as we can see with Dubai, Singapore, Malta, Panama, Malaysia, Kenya and Egypt/Suez and numerous other examples.

    (Note: A report on a ‘Maritime Policy for Scotland’ was also prepared for SNP MP’s (by me and Roy Pedersen) who have sat on it for the past 3 years.

  145. Breastplate says:

    Alf Baird,
    It saddens and angers me that we have placed these people in posts as our representatives for them only to disassociate themselves from us and any accountability for their inaction.
    It is up to us to remedy this wholly miserable situation.

    I would have found it difficult to believe your tales of inaction by the SNP 5 years ago but now unfortunately, it is completely unremarkable. Alas there are enough that still believe that this leadership are progressing us towards independence to hamper us in our ultimate goal.

  146. Saffron Robe says:

    I really think Nicola Sturgeon models herself on the Queen of England i.e. she doesn’t actually have to do anything. Why is she sitting reading books and sending pointless tweets as Scotland burns? At least Nero played the fiddle.

    On a more positive note, the conditions are still amenable for a champion or champions of Scotland to emerge. Boris Johnson is caught in a dilemma. He knows that his handling of Brexit will be catastrophic, and he also knows that Brexit triggers Scotland’s release from the Treaty of Union.

    As the wise old philosopher once said, everything comes down to cause and effect.

  147. Republicofscotland says:

    Well BBC news reporting that 1,500 lorries are stuck at Kent, some hold up in a giant carpark awaiting to get to France, one wonders why Scottish producers sending produce only to Europe feel the need to travel the full length of England to get their goods into Europe.

    As I said up thread why hasn’t Sturgeon developed our own Eastern port to export trade to Europe and further afield. Its an abject failure on her behalf.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    re. the lack of development of Scotland’s east-coast port. Forth Ports is well funded by HMG, so Forth Ports will not be encouraged to help Scotland’s development if they can. As Scot are not allowed to access their “Right to Development”, or hurt Westminster’s London-centered Ponzi scheme.

    Competition in Ports and Port Services

    “Ports, whether maritime, inland or river ports, are important pieces of infrastructure that serve a wide range of customers including freight shippers, ferry operators and private boats. One of the main functions of ports is facilitating the domestic and international trade of goods, often on a large scale.

    Competition in maritime ports and port services is central to countries with significant volumes of maritimebased trade. Inland and river ports can also play important transport roles within countries in particular for heavy or bulky goods where alternative ways of transport are more costly. Ports are, therefore, important for the functioning of the world economy and effective competition in ports and port services plays an important role in the final prices of many products.

    The roundtable discussion focussed on market definition, regulatory reforms and antitrust enforcement in ports
    and port services.”

  149. Saffron Robe says:

    Talking of ports, is it not true to say that historically Glasgow/Port Glasgow on the west coast and Dundee on the east coast were our two biggest ports? And these are now the two most impoverished cities in Scotland and also the two biggest independence supporting cities at the 2014 referendum.

    Port Glasgow/Greenock should be re-established with rail freight links to Glasgow for trade with Ireland, the Iberian Peninsula, Africa, India and the Americas, and Dundee re-established for trade with our traditional Baltic and continental trading partners to the East and South, such as the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Germany, Poland etc.

    England’s malevolence towards us is highlighted by their attempt to steal our maritime waters. They want to try and control our waters linked with our ancient trading routes. Thankfully, upon independence, international law will apply and our maritime waters, from Berwick upwards, will be restored. As Wikipedia mentions, “The European Journal of International Law published a detailed article in 2001 entitled “Prospective Anglo-Scottish maritime boundary revisited”. This concludes that, in the event of Scottish independence, the maritime border between Scotland and England as set out in the Scottish Adjacent Waters Boundaries Order 1999 would not comply with international law.”

  150. Lenny Hartley says:

    Republicofscotland There has been two failed attempts to provide a service from Scotland to The Continent. Having travelled on both I can tell you that whilst there were Trucks travelling, There was not many clearly with the cost and time it was more expensive in both than travelling down to Dover and hopping across.
    I paid around £400 return for a pickup 13 years ago, i hate to imagine what the cost of an Artic would be.
    Having said that , when we are Independent and England continues to be difficult then its an option as costs incurred with border delays would be factored in.

  151. Hatuey says:

    RoS: “As the wise old philosopher once said, everything comes down to cause and effect.”

    Which one?

  152. Hatuey says:

    Bob Mack “ Tax at 38% at one stage but it never stopled me getting what I wanted in life.”

    Some of us pay more now, but what was it that you wanted in life that you got?

  153. Hatuey says:

    “ Early analysis of how and where it is spreading have also given “hints that it has a higher propensity to infect children”, according to Prof Neil Ferguson from the MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, who also sits on Nervtag.
    He stressed the link was still being investigated and was not yet proven.
    “If it were true, then this might explain a significant proportion, maybe even the majority, of the transmission increase seen,” he added.”

    Alarms bells should have triggered more widely when Sturgeon and Leitch told us opening schools was safe, but to be fair the media played its compliant part in selling that particular lie; the public was kept dumbed down and in the dark, as intended.

    We should never, ever forget that these two were as keen as keen could be on herd immunity back in March. Seriously, never forget that. Always remember it. It’s a fact. Everybody should remember it and never let anyone forget it.

    When other countries were locking down and locking the virus out, our monkey and organ grinder double-act was preparing to accommodate it and let it spread through the population under their control. Predictably, thousands of Scots died and suffered as a consequence, and untold damage was done to our economy before they panicked and pulled the plug on the plan.

    They also told you masks were useless. Not because masks were useless but because they were short of masks. And why were they short of masks? You guessed it, because these same fuckwits in this supremely devolved area of government didn’t stock up on them.

    Anyone with more than two brain cells rattling around upstairs knew that masks were potentially very useful — why the fuck else have surgeons been wearing them for 100 years? Duh!

  154. Republicofscotland says:

    Thank you Lenny for that info, surely the Scottish government could come up with a plan to help reduce the costs for our artic drivers, the Scottish government seem prepared to pay a fortune for two ferries that are now overdue, why not, provide ferries to export our goods to Europe, and charge our exporting companies at a reduced rate giving them an advantage over our neighbours.

    I mean this idea is just off the top of my head Sturgeon has a whole cabinet full of advisors and ministers paid a fortune to come up with good idea to help Scottish businesses flourish.

    It just seems to me that Sturgeon is not interested in putting in the essential blocks that any government would put in, in the lead up to potentially becoming an independent nation.

    Some will say that she’s doing all this in cognito, just waiting to reveal it all at once, as soon as we’ve voted to become independent, but that’s highly unlikely and very impractical.

    With absolutely no movement from the Scottish government on essential matters such as a central bank, I feel Sturgeon is talking the talk, but she won’t walk the walk, as the saying goes.

  155. Breeks says:

    Stuart MacKay says:
    22 December, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    I can only find two names, John J.G. McGill (secretary), and Willie McRae (founder)….

    …The Glory Days of ’79 – when Men were Men and Women were Women. What a pathetic excuse for a government we have now in comparison.

    Thanks Stuart. Would that be “the” Willie McRae by any chance?

    I appreciate the primary focus was securing political representation for Scotland, (Devolution), but it’s the process they used to do it which intrigues me. They were pulling levers and influencing opinions at the UN and Council of Europe when Scotland hadn’t any levers to pull.

    I am absolutely convinced that Constitutional Independence, primarily through Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, is achievable in this way, and perhaps in a remarkably short timescale, especially if Westminster insists on breaking International Law.

    For the benefit of others, let me quote the final paragraph… ” And so the people behind Scotland-UN are keeping their powder dry. Consideration is being given to the formation of a successor organisation to represent Scotland at international level, and in the event of any further sabotage attempts we will not hesitate to reopen the whole matter at global and European level and call the international authorities to Scotland’s aid, as our forefathers did in 1320.”

    I firmly believe Scotland has desperate and urgent need for precisely such a “successor organisation” they mention.

    Sturgeon, and her useless impotent cabal, should hang their heads in shame.

  156. CameronB Brodie says:

    Westminster has to silence Scotland in order to constitutionally empower the moral supremacy of populist, right-wing, English nationalism. If the FM and the Lord Advocate had the slightest intention of supporting the rule-of-law, I don’t think Westminster would be able to place itself above the Common law. Yet we’ve to wheesht for indy?


    “Our law has no mind of its own. In times past, we have fancied law a product of the Deity, and we are still apt to depict it as something transcendent, or even broodingly omnipresent, if not divine. Some of our lawmakers maintain a tradition of donning garments befitting oracles when they utter their pronouncements.1

    Needless to say, the reality is that rules flow out of the pens of mortal persons beneath the impressive robes, persons who must bend their mental efforts to many complex problems and tasks, all competing for their attention.

    Half a century ago, the late Herbert Simon developed the theory of “bounded rationality” in connection with human decisionmaking. His insight was that the cognitive resources (like other resources) of human beings are finite and, accordingly, must be rationed. Whether consciously or unconsciously, we all have to make hard choices about how to allocate our intellectual energies.2

    We cope with cognitive deficits, Simon and his students elaborated, in a variety of ways – for example, by searching selectively through the exponential ramifications of our analysis; by settling on decisions that we find sufficiently good, even if not necessarily best; and by developing mental short-cuts (dubbed heuristics) to simplify cognitive tasks, thereby allowing us to arrive at decisions in a more frugal manner….”

  157. Republicofscotland says:

    Alf @12.38pm.

    Indeed Alf, why hasn’t it registered with Sturgeon,( or has it but she’s ignored it) that an independent country will need its own ports to export goods to Europe. I’d imagine that Prestwick airport will become a very important hub (flying goods to the USA etc) after independence as well.

    I recall reading an article on Prestwick airport (early days) that said it very seldom fogged over due to its unique positioning, and that the chaps that founded it had their local MP’s stand up in the HoC to have Prestwick acknowledged as a vital hub for the UK at the time, only for Westminster MP’s to vote the idea down.

    Now I don’t know how many other great ideas that would’ve benefitted Scots and Scotland have been shot down by Westminster over the centuries but you can be sure there’s plenty of them.

  158. Robert Graham says:

    A lot of discussion regarding Ports I would always defer to Alf Baird on this one over the years he has shown a degree of experience beyond most people here so hear him out and learn what his opinion is on the matter,
    I also noticed one word regarding Holyrood on this vital transport issue and that’s ” INERTIA ” after watching and been bored out of my Scull watching some Holyrood committees at work no wonder the questions they manage to ask are sometimes totally baffling and I often think what is this clown speaking about , the question is well it’s like they have to say something but are not quite sure what they are asking so they get a equally baffling answer , I don’t think these MSPs know what they are doing half the time , they make speaking noises but that’s is just noise ,
    The Quality of people in our Parliament is at best questionable and strong personalities just walk over the top of the mundane placements it’s a bit disturbing when there are experienced people out there , this party vetting system is also pretty grim we just have to look at some of the successful candidates.

  159. Stuart MacKay says:


    I think it is “the” Willie McRae, but I had too many tabs open in the browser that I could not find the reference to him again.

  160. Saffron Robe says:

    Hatuey says:

    “As the wise old philosopher once said, everything comes down to cause and effect.”

    Which one?

    I couldn’t remember his name at the time of writing, therefore I put “wise old philosopher”. However, I’m not sure if he was that old or that wise but it was David Hume I was referring to.

    Personally, Immanuel Kant is much more to my taste and, interestingly, was of Scottish heritage as his grandmother was Scottish on his mother’s side.

    Hume is correct, however, in that in the physical world everything comes down to cause and effect, and, as Newton observed, every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    The metaphysical world (Kant’s speciality) is altogether different!

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wasn’t trying to second-guess or undermine Prof. Baird, who I recognise as being better informed and more experienced than myself, when it comes to transportation planning anyway. Though that was my second specialty at uni and accounts for most of my professional experience.

    The Influence of Transport Infrastructure Development on
    Sustainable Living Environment in Lithuania

  162. Hatuey says:

    “but it was David Hume I was referring to“

    Hume was an empiricist but also the supreme sceptic, and was naturally very sceptical about presumptions of causation. You probably couldn’t have chosen someone more diametrically opposed to the idea of ‘cause and effect’ if you tried.

  163. Republicofscotland says:


    UN Special Rapporteur on torture Nils Melzer write a letter to US President Donald Trump asking him to pardon Julian Assange.

    Here is that letter for those of you interested in this matter.

    “Mr. President,

    Today, I respectfully request that you pardon Mr. Julian Assange.

    Mr. Assange has been arbitrarily deprived of his liberty for the past ten years. This is a high price to pay for the courage to publish true information about government misconduct throughout the world.

    I visited Mr. Assange in Belmarsh High Security Prison in London, with two independent medical doctors, and I can attest to the fact that his health has seriously deteriorated, to the point where his life is now in danger. Critically, Mr. Assange suffers from a documented respiratory condition which renders him extremely vulnerable to the Covid-19 pandemic that has recently broken out in the prison where he is being held.

    I ask you to pardon Mr. Assange, because he is not, and has never been, an enemy of the American people. His organization, WikiLeaks, fights secrecy and corruption throughout the world and, therefore, acts in the public interest both of the American people and of humanity as a whole.

    I ask because Mr. Assange has never published false information. The cause for any reputational harm that may have resulted from his publications is not to be found in any misconduct on his part, but in the very misconduct which he exposed.

    I ask because Mr. Assange has not hacked or stolen any of the information he published. He has obtained it from authentic documents and sources in the same way as any other serious and independent investigative journalists conduct their work. While we may personally agree or disagree with their publications, they clearly cannot be regarded as crimes.

    I ask because prosecuting Mr. Assange for publishing true information about serious official misconduct, whether in America or elsewhere, would amount to “shooting the messenger” rather than correcting the problem he exposed. This would be incompatible with the core values of justice, rule of law and press freedom, as reflected in the American Constitution and international human rights instruments ratified by the United States.

    I ask because you have vowed, Mr. President, to pursue an agenda of fighting government corruption and misconduct; and because allowing the prosecution of Mr. Assange to continue would mean that, under your legacy, telling the truth about such corruption and misconduct has become a crime.

    In pardoning Mr Assange, Mr. President, you would send a clear message of justice, truth and humanity to the American people and to the world.

    You would rehabilitate a courageous man who has suffered injustice, persecution and humiliation for more than a decade, simply for telling the truth.

    Last but not least, you would give back to Mr. Assange’s two young sons the loving father they need and look up to. You would also reassure these children, and through them all children of the world, that there is nothing wrong with telling the truth, but that it is the right thing to do; that it is honourable to fight for justice and, indeed, that these are the values America and the world stand for.”

    For these reasons, I respectfully appeal to you to pardon Julian Assange. Whatever our personal views and sympathies may be, I believe that, after a decade of persecution, this man’s unjust suffering must end now.

    Please, use your power of pardon to right the wrongs inflicted on Julian Assange, to end his unjust ordeal and reunite him with his family!

    I respectfully thank you for considering this appeal with foresight, generosity and compassion.

    Please accept, Mr. President, the assurances of my highest consideration.”

  164. Bill Thomson says:

    Off topic but can anyone help?
    In the Autumn of ‘99 I battened down the hatch on my bunker, safe inside, happy in the knowledge that regardless of what might befall the sheeple outside I would be OK.
    The coming nuclear Armageddon with the resultant nuclear winter, the economic crash and following depression, the disrupted food supply chain and decimation of medical services would pass me by. The y2k bug could kiss my ass.
    The bully beef and beans lasted a few years, the pasta and pulses lasted not too badly either but the salt cod and hard tack is getting low. The bottled water has tasted of PVC for years. It might be time to come up for some air.
    I was wondering if anyone here could tell me, is it safe to come out yet, has anything changed or should I just stay put till I finish the cod? Oh, and what is this tier four thingy?

  165. Saffron Robe says:

    Hatuey says:

    “Anyone with more than two brain cells rattling around upstairs knew that masks were potentially very useful — why the fuck else have surgeons been wearing them for 100 years? Duh!”

    Surgeons wear masks because they are working in a clinical environment. There is no evidence that masks are of any great benefit in non-clinical environments. In fact the risks outweigh the benefits. Remember that by enforcing the wearing of masks you are subliminally teaching people to touch their faces.

    It is also worth noting that bank robbers and criminals find masks “potentially very useful”.

    I think a lot of the problems arise because clinical controls are being enforced in a non-clinical environment i.e. everyday life. I also think a lot of the modelling being applied relates to how computer viruses behave and not how biological viruses behave.

    There is also a criminal misunderstanding of what is mistakenly referred to as “herd immunity”. I remember reading that when trees are at threat from an encroaching disease they link their individual defences togethers into a communal shield which is much stronger than they would be individually. The (non-skewed) data indicates that our immune system is responding to the virus and adapting to the threat. Someone for instance who has had the virus and has developed immunity may in fact be able to confer this immunity by close contact. Limiting social contact actually limits our communal response. However as well as encouraging a communal response we should take all the precautions we can to protect the vulnerable. The two are not antithetical, but complementary.

  166. CameronB Brodie says:

    Face masks considerably reduce COVID-19 cases in Germany

    “Mitigating the spread of COVID-19 is the objective of most governments. It is of utmost importance to understand how effective various public health measures are. We study the effectiveness of face masks. We employ public regional data about reported severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infections for Germany.

    As face masks became mandatory at different points in time across German regions, we can compare the rise in infections in regions with masks and regions without masks. Weighing various estimates, we conclude that 20 d after becoming mandatory face masks have reduced the number of new infections by around 45%. As economic costs are close to zero compared to other public health measures, masks seem to be a cost-effective means to combat COVID-19.

    We use the synthetic control method to analyze the effect of face masks on the spread of COVID-19 in Germany. Our identification approach exploits regional variation in the point in time when wearing of face masks became mandatory in public transport and shops. Depending on the region we consider, we find that face masks reduced the number of newly registered severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infections between 15% and 75% over a period of 20 days after their mandatory introduction. Assessing the credibility of the various estimates, we conclude that face masks reduce the daily growth rate of reported infections by around 47%.”

  167. Republicofscotland says:

    Hautey @2.46pm and Cameron @3.05pm.

    I’m no anti-vaxxer, however cynical folk might think that the huge sums of cash being spent on producing Covid-19 vaccines, without first exploring already known effective drugs might be seen as lining the pockets of big pharma and their corporate buddies, God only knows how much taxpayers cash this British Nationalist Tory government has syphoned off into the coffers of their corporate buddies, and party donors.

    This article on (HCQ) Hydroxychloroquine, if we take it at face value, is already being used by many countries to combat Covid-19, and it appears to be an effective remedy against the virus, in a combination with anti-biotics. One wonders why the UK didn’t go down this route first and foremost.

  168. Stuart MacKay says:

    Saffron Robe

    Some class act trolling there – just enough information to sound plausible to someone who does not know the subject but clearly worded so the misinformation is easily passed on and so muddies the subject under discussion. You should get a job at the 77th – I’d hire you.

    Time to get yourself informed. Try these for starters

    The modelling is probably overly mathematical but safe to say the only thing modelling real viruses and computer viruses have in common is the word “virus”.

    The plant article is a decent read and gives you some idea of just how complex they are. For fun you can look for articles on how fungi move nutrients from plant to plant and how plants and fungi trade with each other.

  169. CameronB Brodie says:

    Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine Can Have Serious Side Effects

    “In response to COVID-19, healthcare providers and scientists around the world are trying to find treatments. It has been suggested that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine might be effective additions to treatment of COVID-19 in some patients. These drugs have been used for decades for malaria and, more recently, for some types of arthritis. Their possible use for COVID-19 is based on experience from the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) outbreak of 2003 (also caused by a coronavirus), expert opinion, in-vitro observations (in the test tube, not people), and early results of clinical trials currently taking place in hospitalized patients.

    Despite recent public endorsements, the use of these medications for treatment of COVID-19 is still experimental, and they should not be used without close monitoring by a physician in one of these trials. It might turn out that neither of these medicines effectively treats or prevents COVID-19….

    ….Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine have major drug interactions with other medicines that can put a person at an even greater risk of an abnormal heart rhythm. For example, a commonly used antibiotic, azithromycin, is also being investigated for a possible benefit in treating COVID-19, but it has a known major drug interaction with chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. Whenever a new drug is to be added, the risk versus benefit of a person’s existing therapy must be re-evaluated. In some cases, usual medications can be stopped temporarily, and chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine could be started. In other cases, it would be harmful to stop usual medications, and chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine could not be used. Each situation is different and has to be decided on a case-by-case basis.”

  170. Republicofscotland says:

    The British army has been called in to test the 1,500 lorry drivers for Covid and the new variant stranded at Kent.

    The French authorities aren’t happy though the British army are using the quicker but less accurate flow test, whilst the French want the drivers tested with the slower result bearing, but more accurate PCR test.

    According to Reuters Germany isn’t allowing entry of UK lorries or folk until the 6th of January.

  171. Breeks says:

    Stuart MacKay says:
    22 December, 2020 at 12:34 pm

    I can only find two names, John J.G. McGill (secretary), and Willie McRae (founder).

    However I did find a ton of interesting stuff on, including this, which gives some background on the Scotland-UN Committee and this on fisheries, which seems appropriate.

    Compare ANY of this to what the current SNP is doing. It is so utterly depressing, and this Hogmanay with Brexit aftertaste is going to be such a joyless humiliation. I’m already getting emotional about it.

    Vote SNP! They cry. What a fkg con, by a useless bunch of shits.

  172. Stuart MacKay says:


    There was so much nonsense published about Hydroxychloroquine that nobody knows what to think:–67955

  173. Clwyd Griffiths says:

    @Derek no worries 🙂

  174. cirsium says:

    @Republicofscotland, 2.46

    Thanks for posting the text of Professor Melzer’s letter. Bravo Nils Melzer.

  175. Republicofscotland says:

    Stuart @3.43pm.

    Indeed Stuart, the waters on (HCQ) have been muddied so much that its hard to tell what’s what.

  176. Johnny Martin says:

    Saffron Robe

    How are you subliminally teaching people to touch their faces by asking them to wear masks?

    Not arguing necessarily, I’m trying to follow the train of thought.

    Are you saying once they have them on, they necessarily *have* to start messing about with them?

  177. Republicofscotland says:

    Cirsium @3.54pm.

    You’re more than welcome.

  178. Republicofscotland says:

    Cameron @3.36pm.

    Thank you for that interesting comment on (HCQ).

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    My pleasure. 😉

    Risk of hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis: a multinational, retrospective study

    “Hydroxychloroquine, a drug commonly used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis, has received much negative publicity for adverse events associated with its authorisation for emergency use to treat patients with COVID-19 pneumonia. We studied the safety of hydroxychloroquine, alone and in combination with azithromycin, to determine the risk associated with its use in routine care in patients with rheumatoid arthritis….

    ….The study included 956?374 users of hydroxychloroquine, 310?350 users of sulfasalazine, 323?122 users of hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin, and 351?956 users of hydroxychloroquine plus amoxicillin. No excess risk of severe adverse events was identified when 30-day hydroxychloroquine and sulfasalazine use were compared.

    Self-controlled case series confirmed these findings. However, long-term use of hydroxychloroquine appeared to be associated with increased cardiovascular mortality (calibrated HR 1·65 [95% CI 1·12–2·44]). Addition of azithromycin appeared to be associated with an increased risk of 30-day cardiovascular mortality (calibrated HR 2·19 [95% CI 1·22–3·95]), chest pain or angina (1·15 [1·05–1·26]), and heart failure (1·22 [1·02–1·45]).

    Hydroxychloroquine treatment appears to have no increased risk in the short term among patients with rheumatoid arthritis, but in the long term it appears to be associated with excess cardiovascular mortality. The addition of azithromycin increases the risk of heart failure and cardiovascular mortality even in the short term. We call for careful consideration of the benefit-risk trade-off when counselling those on hydroxychloroquine treatment.”

  180. ben madigan says:

    with regards to Scottish ports – this is what is happening in post-Brexit Ireland

    The Republic of Ireland has developed more sea-routes from Irish ports straight to France and ordered new ferries to avoid the GB land bridge and inevitable Brexit-related duties and tariffs as well as the complications of sending goods “in transit”.

    The voyage is obviously longer than Dover-Calais but drivers avoid the long drive through GB. They can relax, enjoy their meals and after a good night’s sleep disembark, ready for a full driving shift.

    I can envisage Westminster blocking any attempt on Scotland’s part to do something similar

    If Scotland were independent and a full EU member things would be very different and EU funding would most probably be made available for developing Scottish ports and new sea-routes.

  181. Effijy says:

    Can I remind everyone that Boris and his medical advisor
    Along with the Chief Scientist for weeks informed us that
    face masks did more harm than good.

    My opinion of that was that it had to be another Tory lie
    and was either an attempt to kill off more elderly or to
    keep any Face masks available for the NHS.

    They tried to say a proper face mask would reduce the chances of
    Inhaling or exhaling air borne particles.

    Absolute nonsense and yet another reason to trust a Tory when his lips move!

  182. CameronB Brodie says:

    If the Tories weren’t ideologically hostile towards the “precautionary principle” and international law, they might not have imagined the lunacy of achieving “herd-immunity” through the social transition of the bug, an ethical or practical response to a virulent, debilitating, and potentially fatal pathogen.

    Expanding the precautionary principle

  183. Robert Graham says:

    The Trans gender neutral non binary self identifying strange people are at it again ,Yes this lot are using NHS funds to appeal the High Courts decision that prohibits administering puberty blocking drugs to children who the court deemed unable to understand the long term physiological effects.
    They never give up
    long past the time for adult intervention ,this lot won’t believe the long term physical effects they will receive when normal adults waken up to what these weirdos are doing .
    This is being discussed on RT just now and the public aint bleedn happy so I imagine this lot can expect some resistance

  184. Lenny Hartley says:

    Ben Madigan, yup and the Irish have two ferry hops and with Brexit how are goods in transit Between two EU countries going to be handled When one hop of the journey involves going via a third country. Hopefully when we are Independent we can get direct ferries running not only to Belgium but also Denmark for the Scandinavian trade.
    But at present they are not viable , but who knows if its a no deal Brexit , maybe avoiding the chaos of Dover might make a direct Scottish to Zeebrugge route viable.

  185. Effijy says:

    Congratulations hero Boris and Death Minister soon to be Sir Matt Hancock
    for smashing through the Covid Death Rate of 100 for every 1 million of population.

    Onward and upward with these hard working incompetents!

  186. PacMan says:

    re: Ferry links from Scotland

    There was talk last year of a ferry link form Rosyth to Eemshaven to deal with Brexit but nothing came of it:

  187. Saffron Robe says:

    Johnny Martin says at 3:55 pm:

    Saffron Robe

    How are you subliminally teaching people to touch their faces by asking them to wear masks?

    Not arguing necessarily, I’m trying to follow the train of thought.

    Are you saying once they have them on, they necessarily *have* to start messing about with them?

    Very fair question Johnny. As someone trained in the use of using PPE, one of the most important aspects of donning and removing a face mask is to always wash your hands before doing so because, if you touch your face without washing your hands and you have come into contact with a contaminated surface, you will transmit the infection to yourself. How many people do you see washing their hands before putting on or taking off their face mask? If you have touched a contaminated surface in a shop for instance and then leaving the shop you take off your mask without washing your hands, it is the wearing of the face mask which will have enabled you to contract the virus. Face coverings/masks also need to be kept scrupulously clean – washed daily at high temperature. How many people do that?

    And it is the wearing of masks which teach you to unconsciously lift your hands to your face. As I told my Mum (who is at very high risk) the best safeguard is to always imagine your hands are contaminated. Therefore, always wash your hands before eating, preparing food or touching your face. That is the best defence – good hand hygiene and cough etiquette. I have also taught myself to breathe through my nose whenever I can so that I am not breathing out the way but down the way.

  188. Hamerdoon says:

    Hatuey says: re Hume


    If an empiricist believes that what they observe has no actual cause, what do they think is the origin of their observation? Is it the relationships made by the mind only i.e. a cognitive process? What about scientific endeavour where adequate controls (validity) and reliability (repetition) point to cause and effect? I suppose what I’m asking is – what did Hume think was happening? Was he mainly concerned with the qualitative?

    Very interested to understand what he meant here. I was always under the impression that empiricism was very much related to cause and effect, so it’d be good to see where I was going wrong.

  189. Republicofscotland says:

    Cameron @4.08pm


    What do you make of this claim from the link I provided earlier on.

    An illustration of how the system works is described by the editors-in-chief of the two most prestigious medical journals in the world, namely The Lancet and the New England Journal of Medicine, who cite the “criminal” pressures put on them by pharmaceutical companies, thus explaining how a series of negative HCQ studies got published. In the words of the editor of The Lancet, Dr. Richard Horton:

    “If this continues, we are not going to be able to publish any more clinical research data because pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful … Journals have devolved into information laundering operations for the pharmaceutical industry.”

    “Medical journals are an extension of the marketing arm of pharmaceutical companies,” wrote Richard Smith, former editor-in-chief of the British Medical Journal (BMJ).”

  190. Willie Hogg says:

    Ferry services from Scotland to Holland take about nine hours. Plenty time to conduct COVID testing on board.

  191. Bob Mack says:

    I have sent a link to this thread to The World Health Organisation in Geneva, so at least they will have some idea of where they are going wrong. LOL.

  192. Socrates MacSporran says:

    The old Rosyth-Zeebrugge DFDS service had a sailing time of 17 hours. Say 20 hours with loading and unloading time.

    Against that, you have say a full 9 hours driving time day, from Glasgow to the Channel ports, plus the ferry crossing time.

    Driving to the south coast of England therefore, takes a full working day, then, even after the crossing – the driver is out of hours and has to have his statutory 11 hour break.

    This means, the refreshed driver on the ferry from Scotland, makes up the time he lost, by being on the ferry, by being able to drive off on the continent and carry on towards his final destination.

    If the benefits of less wear and tear on the truck, less fuel used and drivers’ rest is factored-in a ferry makes sense.

    Or, if the transport company has trucks at both ends, and only sends trailers on the ferry, there are further cost savings – and, you avoid the Midlands Link and M25 grid locks at some times.

  193. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s a very long time since I looked at this stuff, but corporate power hasn’t totally destroyed the integrity of scientific knowledge yet. Or the function of journals. Which is kind of what I’m trained to support. You just need to know how to judge truth from cultural belief, so as to spot bad science. 😉


    Well what do you know, a question about epistemology. 🙂

    David Hume – On Empiricism
    An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding
    Sect.IV. Sceptical Doubts concerning the Operations of the Understanding
    PART I.

  194. MaggieC says:

    Re fisheries , This from Craig Murray’s twitter account,

    “ Why do the Tories suddenly care about fishermen?
    Because five families on the Sunday Times Rich List (min qualification £130 million) own 30% of the UK quota. None ever seen on a boat. That kind of fishermen “

    And from the Scotsman re the Scottish fishing families ,

  195. CameronB Brodie says:

    Time for a bit more evolutionary psychology?

    Who’s Afraid of the Naturalistic Fallacy?

    “David Hume argued that values are the projections of natural human desires, and that moral values are the projections of desires that aim at the common good of society. Recent developments in game theory, evolutionary biology, animal behaviour and neuroscience explain why humans have such desires, and hence provide support for a Humean approach to moral psychology and moral philosophy.

    However, few philosophers have been willing to pursue this
    naturalistic approach to ethics for fear that it commits something called ‘the naturalistic fallacy’. This paper reviews several versions of the fallacy, and demonstrates that none of them present an obstacle to this updated, evolutionary version of Humean ethical naturalism.”

  196. MaggieC says:

    Re the border closed between Scotland and England , If you check Flight Radar there’s still flights coming up from airports in England eg London , Manchester etc to Scotland .,-3.34/7

    I understand if it’s people travelling for business but I would like to know if they are going to have to self – isolate since they are coming from London and other high risk areas .

  197. Republicofscotland says:

    Cameron @5.38pm.

    Thank you for your opinion.

  198. John Main says:

    Purely anecdotally and based on a sample size of one.

    When I wear a face mask, or face covering, I constantly mess about with it and touch my face.

    The best analogy I have read for picturing the difference in size between a Covid-19 virus and the pores in a typical face mask is to compare a football with the goal mouth. Perhaps some contributors BTL support a team that hasn’t scored recently so won’t see the significance.

    To be fair, many (most?) viral particles will be embedded in larger blobs of mucus. But then the gaps around the edges of the mask (or face covering) will be the size of several football pitches. I suspect these facts cancel each other out when it comes to assessing the effectiveness of face coverings.

    Almost forgot. There is no equivalent of a goalie in a mask. What do you reckon? Could your team score if the opposition goalie was sent off?

  199. Dan says:

    Tescos out of bread and milk, so I’ve just Self Id’d as being gluten and lactose intolerant so all good, if a little hungry…

    Minus 4 last night so hope the freeze continues and holds my life and belongings in cryogenic suspension till all the shit clears up in spring (or several years down the line).
    Hoping my last Avocado thaws out ok as has potential to be worth a fortune.

  200. Derek says:

    “Socrates MacSporran says:
    22 December, 2020 at 5:37 pm
    The old Rosyth-Zeebrugge DFDS service had a sailing time of 17 hours. Say 20 hours with loading and unloading time.”

    I believe that there is still a commercials-only ferry that runs on that route; I miss the passenger ferry though, as I used it a lot. It meant that Spa-Francorchamps was only a couple of road hours away.

    It was a wee bit more expensive than other ferries, but, as you say, the cut in driving time made it worth it.

  201. CameronB Brodie says:

    You’re welcome. As I said, it’s a very long time since I’ve looked at this stuff, but I’m trained to incorporate science with the law. Which needs to respect causation if it hopes to support moral realism.

    Hume, Causal Realism, and Causal Science

    “The ‘New Hume’ interpretation, which sees Hume as a realist about ‘thick’ Causal powers, has been largely motivated by his evident commitment to causal language and causal science. In this, however, it is fundamentally misguided, failing to recognise how Hume exploits his anti-realist conclusions about (upper-case) Causation precisely to support (lower-case) causal science.

    When critically examined, none of the standard New Humean arguments – familiar from the work of Wright, Craig, Strawson, Buckle, Kail, and others – retains any significant force against the plain evidence of Hume’s; texts. But the most devastating objection comes from Hume’s own applications of his analysis of causation, to the questions of ‘the immateriality of the soul’ and ‘liberty and necessity’. These show that the New Hume interpretation has misunderstood the entire purpose of his ‘Chief Argument’, and presented him as advocating some of the very positions he is arguing most strongly against.”

  202. Effijy says:

    Boris a pathological liar- Surely?

    Boris johnson has often claimed that a story he wrote as a journalist in May 1992 entitled “Delors plan to rule Europe” helped swing Danish voters towards a narrow rejection of the European Union’s Maastricht treaty. That the article, like much that he wrote about the eu, bore little relationship to the truth has never appeared to trouble him much; yet the suspicions around his character which his coverage of Brussels engendered in the European Commission are now coming back to bite him, for they threaten to undermine his chance of doing a last-minute trade deal with the eu.

  203. John Main says:


    Has NS really “waste[d] half a billion pounds of taxpayers money trying to imprison a former FM”?

    Half a billion is 500 million pounds. Do you mean half a million? That’s 500 thousand pounds.

    If you are correct, then it’s not too late for me to take up a legal career. I probably only need to work one year in order to set myself up for life.

  204. Saffron Robe says:

    John Main, interesting comment. You may find this video illuminating:

  205. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m glad “Hume” is a topic of discussion, as that gives me the opportunity to show off. Well, I’m only human. So here’s a look at some bioethics. 🙂

    Normative-descriptive and the
    Naturalistic Fallacy

    “One can discern between two different approaches to reality. One has to do with how things are, the other with how they should be, the descriptive and the normative. The reduction of the latter to the former has often been considered as fallacious.

    However, the problems sometimes seems to run deeper than a mere superficial question of logical paradoxes. A closer analysis of the problem, in connection with more practical occurrences of it, might help clarify things.”

  206. Robert Graham says:

    OH Well look on the bright side a min 50000 tons of Freight stuck in one corner of England

    Now there might be a chance that part on England could slip into the Channel ,
    And Why is it called the English Channel and not the French Channel its as much Frances as England’s or is this another bit of grand Larceny by the English steal every bloody thing that ain’t nailed down that lot
    Seems Bawjaws has a problem with numbers again , eh how many children have you sired PM . and how many Trucks are stuck in Kent 100 -200 nope wrong again 1500 and counting with 800 cops attempting to keep the peace a 40 Ton Truck can cause a lot of damage especially if driven by a pesky foreigner with attitude and swearing in their own dialect , Kent rapidly becoming the biggest toilet in the UK another first for the glorious Tory Government.

  207. Beaker says:

    @Bill Thomson says:
    22 December, 2020 at 2:50 pm
    “Oh, and what is this tier four thingy?”

    Tiers for Fears….

    I’ll see myself out

  208. MaggieC says:

    Robert Graham @ 6.42 pm ,

    The bbc are now saying that it’s nearly 3,000 lorries stuck in queues ,

    “ Covid-19: Almost 3,000 lorries stuck in Kent as UK and France aim to restart freight “

    This chaos is the English Tory Governments fault and no one else’s fault for not locking down London and the south east of England sooner .

  209. Ellie says:

    @Robert Graham, the French call the channel “La Manche”.
    I suspect once the EU based truckers get back to the other side of La Manche they will stay there and I don’t blame them. Hope they get home soon.
    Meanwhile brexiters need a swift dose of reality and us Scots need to get off wir arses.

  210. Mia says:

    @ John Main

    You may find that half a million pounds was only part of the costs of the civil case. We are still none the wiser as to the size of the bill that will be handed to taxpayers for the costs of the criminal court case, for the oversized police investigation, the Parliamentary inquiry, and the “salary increases” of some of those civil servants.

    That of course does not include the cost of the legal advice that the Scottish government is fighting so hard to not have released and those sizeable legal expenses SNP members have been paying for – whatever they were for.

    That half a million pounds does not include potential new court cases if Mr Salmond or others choose to sue the SGovernment.

    It may not have been used to imprison Mr Salmond, but the cost of the Scottish Government fighting against Mr Keatings in the courts is another expense that Nicola Sturgeon has thrown into our laps.

    We can add to that the cost in revenues for Scotland that the total inaction of Nicola STurgeon in the last 5 years progressing independence is inflicting on us and will continue to inflict in the foreseeable future. Examples being having England MPs administering our most valuable assets and pocketing the money rather than leaving the money in Scotland, having to continue paying for hundreds of political rejects to sit in the HoLs; our impaired ability to export because of the fiasco with the English ports and the inaction of Sturgeon to set up adequate ports in Scotland in preparation for independence; the cost of our businesses going bankrupt due to being unable to export to the EU, job losses, cuts in grants due to brexit, the cost of having to continue subsidising England and paying a share of its enormous debt and vanity projects, the sell of our NHS and water; having England taking over a huge chunk of our own markets to shift its own produce, disguised under a UJ, while directly competing and displacing ours.

    If we also add to this the enormous cost that these inefficient lockdowns and tier nonsense are inflicting on Scotland’s economy and that could have been avoided had this FM closed the borders 10 months ago, when everybody else in Europe was closing them instead of following like a poodle the line of the most incompetent government Westminster has seen in modern history and leaving those borders open for 10 months, turns out that the 500 billion pound mark does not seem that far off the mark anymore, actually.

    From where I am sitting, it seems like Nicola Sturgeon has been a very, very expensive mistake.

    Losers do not get rewarded with more time in power. They get booted out. So after the taxpayer is being served with such an unacceptable bill, why is this woman still in power?

  211. @CameronB Brodie,

    Hume is on the BLM naughty step from Edinburgh University,

    `Edinburgh University has renamed its David Hume Tower over the philosopher’s “comments on matters of race”.

    The building, which will be used as a student study space this academic year, will now be known as 40 George Square.

    An online petition claiming David Hume “wrote racist epithets” and calling for the building to be renamed has been signed more than 1,700 times.

    The university said Hume’s comments on race, “though not uncommon at the time, rightly cause distress today.”

    Don`t know if Edin Council leader (woke as f@ck) Adam Mcvey is thinking of taking statue of Hume down.

  212. Beaker says:

    @MaggieC says:
    22 December, 2020 at 6:59 pm
    Robert Graham @ 6.42 pm ,
    “The bbc are now saying that it’s nearly 3,000 lorries stuck in queues ,”

    John Redwood has tweeted that this is a good thing, and we should not rely on imports be making things ourselves. I believe he is a Trekkie, so perhaps he is getting his essentials teleported in.

  213. Ellie says:

    Maggie, when the French say “they aim’ to restart freight it may not mean they ‘will” any time soon. Think I read somewhere that the tests they are planning to use is unsurprisingly unreliable.

  214. CameronB Brodie says:

    Why indeed?

    David Hume and contemporary realism
    in political theory

    “Proponents of the recent movement of realism in political theory have expressed dissatisfaction with the typically Kantian and ideal theoretical assumptions that guide much political and normative theorizing. In this paper it is proposed that these realist theorists could find support for their critique of the Kantian legacy, as well as building blocks for a realist alternative, by drawing on the moral and political thought of David Hume.

    The paper constitutes a reading of Hume’s writings with the contemporary realist critique in mind. The result highlights four themes in Hume’s thought: (1) The empirically informed approach to normative reasoning. (2) An emphasis on that political theorizing must be conducted on the basis of a realistic political psychology. (3) The critique of social contract doctrines, a critique that is directed at idealistic and rationalistic versions of liberalism. (4) Hume’s account of human sociality and the origins of political authority.

    Lastly, it is suggested that the fact that Hume combines realism with liberalism makes him of additional interest to the many realists who are seeking to correct rather than reject liberal political theory and who are thus wary of finding themselves too close to Machiavelli and Hobbes, the usual realist predecessors.”

  215. willie says:

    Off topic but just watched the BBC six o’clock news and listened to a news presenter commentator cheerfully saying that the lorry chaos was good contingency planning.

    With over 3,000 lorries parked up on the roadside it sure is good contingency planning – and with over 3,000 drivers living in their cabs with no access to washing facilities or toilets the area must be turning into a shit heap with all the health risks of a third world shanty slum.

    Maybe Boris will send one of the much vaunted gun boats up the M20 to sort it out. Fucking Banana Republic – Rule Britannia!!

  216. Ellie says:

    Banana Republic with a monarch and nae bananas ?.
    Wonder if it will be good contingency planning this time next week? WTF is Scotland doing still being part of this clusterfuck?

  217. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scot Finlayson
    I’ve no idea what there justification was, but that doesn’t mean Hume isn’t important. Hume was a man of his time, so I don’t think it reasonable to judge him through the lens of contemporary political correctness. Which clearly threatens to undermine post-colonial theory by denying the legal significance biological boundaries.

    Cognitivism and Non-Cognitivism Approaches in Legal Realm

    “Cognitivists believe that morality is the standard of evaluation whereas non-cognitivists believe that the matters of morality are highly metaphysical and such issues cannot be either established true or erroneous. Cognitivism is central theme of value, evaluation and judgment based on certain standard whereas non-cognitivism is science that seeks factual expressions.

    Cognitivism is valued knowledge whereas non-cognitivism is verified knowledge. They are not only the matter of linguistic expression but also the matter of subjective and objective expressions. Cognitivism is subjective expression whereas non-cognitvism is objective expressions. In legal realm, natural law school is based on cognitivism approach whereas legal positivism including logical positivism stands for non-cognitivism. The tradition of non-cognitivism in law began with the application of philosophy of David Hume.

    Gradually, other legal positivists have accepted it. Scandinavian realists’ stands for logical positivism or empiricism and also in a favor of non-cognitivism approach because they are skeptical on metaphysical concept. They are not reluctant to reject any concept of ownership, possession, rights and duties as they are highly metaphysical concept. “

  218. Republicofscotland says:

    John Main ‘6.21pm.

    Thank you for the correction it should of course half a million pounds.

  219. CameronB Brodie says:

    As I said, Hume is important and does not deserve to be obliterated from cultural consciousness.

    Cognitive Science and David Hume’s Science of the Mind

    “What reason is there for coupling one of the newest branches of modern science with a long-dead philosopher, however august? And why with Hume, of all people? Was he not a sceptic, famous for questioning the possibility of any, and, thus, a fortiori, scientific, knowledge?

    Interesting as his reasons for such doubts may be to other philosophers, can they not be safely ignored by scientists, those actually engaged in pursuing and, surely, gaining, the knowledge he said was unattainable? But, then, what else has he to say to the latter?

    In what follows, I shall argue that far from being sceptical about the possibility of a science of the mind, Hume was perhaps the first to embark self-consciously on the project of constructing one. Furthermore, some of the goals and some of the results of his project anticipate in interesting and rarely noticed ways those of recent cognitive science and its philosophy.”

  220. Republicofscotland says:

    Socrates MacSporran @5.37pm.

    Good observations as to why an Eastern Scottish seaport capable of taking Scottish freight and produce to Europe is viable.

    If you can see this then why can’t Sturgeon and her myriad of well paid advisors see it, if you’re planning on becoming an independent nation then building blocks such as these ports are vital arteries that need to be in place.

    I even suggested two nationalised ferries owned by the Scottish government that could give our vital exporters a fair price to transport their goods into Europe, giving our domestic businesses an advantage.

    Sturgeon’s actions on this matter and other such as a central bank, currency etc, don’t strike me as FM who’s preparing to run an independent nation in the near future.

  221. John Digsby says:

    If it’s a viable commercial route, why has noone set one up? There’s nothing stopping them – the reality is that it is currently cheaper (quicker) to drive them to Dover and cross to France.

  222. Alf Baird says:

    Breastplate @ 12.52
    It really is astounding negligence, the inaction and ignorance of Scottish Ministers and SG more generally on the issue of trade and seaports/shipping matters and the clear need for policies and action. It really does seem to be the case that there is absolutely no real interest in independence. How could there be when one of the first things any newly independent state must ensure is that it has direct access to international markets for trade; ports and shipping are critical in this respect. My academic and former research colleagues working within the UN agencies globally and in the EC too would be shocked to find here a country with aspirations for independence which has absolutely no plan and no idea about ensuring its transport access to major international markets. Even with Scotland within the UK and with Brexit upon them our leaders sit clueless and motionless in St. Andrews House, devoid of any knowledge or initiative.

  223. Alf Baird says:

    CameronB Brodie @ 1.29
    Yes, Mr. Rifkind and his Tory mates sold off the trust ports and thousands of acres of waterfront land on Forth, Clyde and Tay together with their regulatory ‘authority’ powers for the price equivalent of a packet of crisps and a bottle of Irn Bru. The MBO’s made a quick few million bucks when they offloaded the ports onto the stock market, the latter able to value critical national port assets more accurately. More port value$ changed hands when the offshore private equity engineers came a calling and took the ports ‘private’. This ‘model’ of port ownership doesn’t work here primarily because profit-hungry ‘investors’ don’t/are not required to build new port infrastructure in Scotland, they simply sweat the outdated ports that’s there, and exploit their estuarial monopolies thanks to the Tories giving them the powers of self-regulation. This explains why Scotland’s city waterfronts are still a dubious work in progress after port privatisation 30 years ago, why the port infras we do have tends to have been built nearer to when Queen Victoria was on the throne, and this is why Scotland’s international trade remains flat, and we are now mostly dependent on ports in the south of England.

  224. Alf Baird says:

    Saffron Robe @ 1.31
    On the subject of a Maritime Policy in Scotland, I wrote this paper back in 2006: Maritime policy in Scotland: Maritime Policy & Management: Vol 32, No 4 ( It was sent to various Holyrood MSP’s and Ministers, however there was no interest or action. Scotland has never had a maritime policy, probably the only country in the world with such a large coastline yet with no maritime policy to help develop seaborne trade and ports. In fact, there was a great deal of confusion among MSP’s between what is a ‘maritime policy’, which is focused on trade and economic growth, and ‘marine policy’ which is primarily focused on what lives in the sea and on environmental matters. Scotland has a ‘marine policy’ and a marine act, and a marine agency, which gives a (too) strong emphasis on the environment. However there is absolutely nothing on ‘maritime policy’ and hence nothing on ports/shipping and trade development or the economy, as we can see now with the absence of any strategy on maritime transport and our nation’s increasingly flawed dependence on ports in the south of England.

  225. CameronB Brodie says:

    There really are a bunch of numpties running Scotland. We’ll not achieve a more equitable and tolerant society, let alone put our legal rights into effect, by re-writing history to suite the ideological trends favoured by ‘our’ liberal bourgeois political and media Establishment.

    Hume, The Philosophy of Science and the Scientific Tradition

    “At his own time, Hume was known primarily as a historian and essayist. He was not known as a natural philosopher or, to use our terminology, a natural scientist.1 Hume is usually not placed in the canonical listings of the history of early modern science, which include figures like Isaac Newton (1646-1727), Robert Boyle (1627-1691), Christiaan Huygens (1629-1695), and Carl von Linné (1707-1778).

    Hume’s contributions to “philosophy and general learning” revolve around his science of man and the study of the human mind. Even though he probably wanted to emulate the explanatory success of Newton’s natural philosophy in his moral philosophy, the main concern of his philosophical work is in mapping the cognitive structures of the mind (Ott 2009: 191; Harris 2015: 85).

    Hume’s objective is not to explain the “natural and physical causes” of our perceptions, as this task is for “the sciences of anatomy and natural philosophy” (T; SBN 275-6). Hume’s ambition is to develop a human science which is different from natural science.

    Although the main focus of Hume’s career was in the humanities, his work also has an observable role in the historical development of natural sciences after his time. To show this, I shall center on the relation between Hume and two major figures in the history of the natural sciences: Charles Darwin (1809-1882) and Albert Einstein (1879-1955). Both of these scientists read Hume.

    They also found parts of Hume’s work useful to their sciences. Inquiring into the relations between Hume and the two scientists shows that his philosophical positions had a partial, but constructive role in the formation of modern biology and physics. This is accordingly a clear indication of Hume’s impact on the scientific tradition.”

  226. Alf Baird says:

    Lenny Hartley @ 1.33
    Superfast Ferries ran the Ros-Zee service from 2002 for about 6-7 years – I developed the EU tender to select them, and I did the EU funding application to help pay for some port work. Superfast left because the offshore-owned port owner and regulator (Forth Ports) kept increasing the port charges at Rosyth, and were unable to give Superfast sufficient land for freight and trade vehicle storage. The long run up the Forth under the bridges which have a low height constraint for some ferries was another disincentive which is why the more optimal site which studies I was involved in identified Cockenzie as a more appropriate port location, which is also rail linked and close to the bypass as well as being much closer to the open sea. Superfast were actually making a profit on the route and the volumes were good and proven to exist (against the view of civil servants), however if your port location and monopoly port supplier don’t play ball the ships (and the trade) will move elsewhere. Prestonpans Community Council are currently driving the cruise & ferry port ‘vision’ for Cockenzie on the site of the ex power station, however at higher gov levels the SG and East Lothian Cooncil remain full of the usual inertia blighting and standing in the way of Scotland’s development potential.

  227. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Regarding ports and exports to Europe.

    Reserved matter ain’t it.If it wasn’t then Westminster wouldn’t get the credits for tax export revenue.

    Comon lads wits it awe aboot? We ken who’s to blame for this and it ain’t Scot Gov. Why didn’t any Slab gov do it in Scotland for last 70 years?

    Indy changes awe that but at the moment we’re hem-tied to London.People should know this.

  228. Alf Baird says:

    Republicofscotland @ 2.09
    I remember working on joint research with a specialist on global hub and spoke networks who had done feasibility work on places like Anchorage and Dubai for aviation, and a range of hub ports for container shipping. The geographic and other technical advantages of Prestwick for aviation were well established, as are the shipping possibilities for Scapa Flow. The reason hubs are not being developed in these places is because UK transport policy has a primary focus on developments in the south-east, and civil servants in Scotland also take that line, and with SNP Ministers accepting that line. So, you are right about good ideas all being “shot down by Westminster”. Holyrood is just colonialism with a mini kilt and essentially still run by Whitehall as far as the big policy issues are concerned, such as international trade.

  229. Alf Baird says:


    Actually, seaports are a devolved matter. Its Holyrood’s ‘bag’.

    ScotGov is a spending department of the UK Gov, by the way. A branch office. Part of the same ’empire’.

  230. MaggieC says:

    Re lorry delays at Dover etc , Here in Scotland we own Prestwick airport and the Scottish Government should be arranging cargo flights to carry goods in and out of Scotland to Europe . Then you have the rail link up to Glasgow where goods could be moved through the night up to distribution centres .

    The Scottish Government used Prestwick airport when they arranged for PPE equipment to be flown straight into Scotland .

  231. Republicofscotland says:

    Alf @8.04pm.

    Thank you Alf for that response, we need a bold initiative led Scottish government, our country has great potential on this front and many others.

    An observation of mine is that Craig Murray and yourself would make a formidable team at getting the most out of Scotland’s maritime seas.

  232. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Yeah ok Alf

    International trade ie exports is devolved is it not?

    What’s the point spending billions at moment when we don’t control our export trade?

  233. Alf Baird says:

    John Digsby @ 7.52

    There is only one ferry facility on the Forth and hence one port supplier. So you take what they have to offer or dont bother – and most dont bother. I’ve given the reasons why Superfast left – i.e. port costs and lack of terminal space, as well as long upriver steaming time/extra cost in/out. These are serious constraints to the attraction of a direct ferry link and need addressed, as does the optimal port location for a ferry – closer to the open sea. This is the reason why Cockenzie is so important; plenty land; intermodal connections; outwith the control of the existing port monopoly; right side of the river also. Running a tender to select an operator is no problem, even for an international route, but it is essential that the best infrastructure and lowest cost base is assured especially when you are asking someone to put two ships each costing maybe €150m on a new route.

  234. Saffron Robe says:

    Alf Baird, I bow to your greater knowledge. I was only expressing my thoughts on the matter. I acknowledge I am no expert!

    Ellie, I think the correct term would be “banana monarchy”!

    It really is a humanitarian crisis the situation in the S.E. of England. Sadly, just the first of many I’m sure.

  235. Lenny Hartley says:

    Alf Baird, thanks for that Interesting , i travelled with them in 2007, it was a good comfortable service, especially as I upgraded on way home and had my own cabin with a huge bed which was handy in the Force nine we were heading into, my cabin was eight stories up and the windows were being hit by spray.
    The service which took over from them was like a cattle truck in comparison , very small passenger lounge , crammed together like an aircraft. Both services were relatively quiet.
    Anotherport might do the trick right enough. Definitely needed when we are a normal nation with membership of the single market however ay that is achieved.

  236. Alf Baird says:

    Republicofscotland @ 8.11

    Yes, you would have thought the SNP ScotGov would have long since been deploying Ambassador Murray’s unique and unrivalled expertise to good effect in numerous geo-political and diplomatic areas; instead the SNP elite blocked him from standing for parliament and now appear to be using their agencies to persecute him, which again serves to demonstrate their rather dubious priorities.

  237. Terry says:

    Well worth a listen. 19 minutes in is Andy wightman speaking about his resignation from the greens. Quite eye opening.

  238. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s another look at why Hume is culturally significant, and possibly the target of the naive and ultimately harmful virtue signaling that appears to have enveloped the ‘left’.

    Hume, Logical Induction, and Legal Reasoning

    ““When we have found a resemblance among several objects, we apply the same name to all of them, whatever differences we may observe in the degrees of their quantity and quality, and whatever other differences may appear among them.” David Hume, A Treatise on Human Understanding , Book 1 Part 1 Sec VII para. 7.

    David Hume’s expository use of “we” is a commonly accepted discursive practice. But its use can leave out the possibility of disagreement over the purpose and consequences of a disputed resemblance. The expository “we” deploys an ideal observer of a paradigmatic situation; it obscures whether, in actual life, the general statement of resemblance applies to all possible communities of speakers.

    It obscures the social dimension of establishing similarity. The issue of similarity doesn’t arise unless there is a practical uncertainty regarding the resemblance in question. Such practical uncertainty arises constantly in the operation of legal adjudication.

    Naming is another crucial constitutive element in logical theory. What if the reach of application by a particular “name” is disputed by opposing interests within the same linguistic community? Parties to legal disputes may seek to gain coverage of a legal term (“liberty,” “equality,” even “murder”) for their own interests, and to exclude other interests.

    This can be seen in minor disputes, or in major ones like the extension of the constitutional right of free expression to political campaign donations (hence the extension of “liberty”), of murder or homicide to doctor-assisted suicide, or of marriage to same-gender partners (implicating the extension of “equality”). Precisely what induction means in legal reasoning is the subject of this paper.”

  239. Republicofscotland says:

    Alf @8.29pm.

    Well said Alf.

  240. Alf Baird says:


    There is nothing to stop the SNP to develop strategic ports for international trade.

    Not sure what you mean by “What’s the point spending billions”. A new ferry pier does not cost £billions. £30-40m maybe. (£100m if you let CMAL anywhere near it.)

  241. Alf Baird says:

    Lenny Hartley

    Aye, and relaxing in the Superfast jacuzzi heading across the North Sea @ 30 knots wis pure deid brilliant tae! Much better than being stuck on the M6 or somewhere in Kent.

  242. Alf Baird says:

    Robert Graham @ 2.08
    On the subject of the quality of questions asked by MSP’s in Committees. In my experience the committees at Westminster and Stormont usually appoint an advisor who is an expert in the subject/area under investigation. Holyrood committees do not seem to make such appointments very often, and this leaves the committee clerks to advise members and that includes helping set the questions as well as drafting the final report. This means the questions are often not quite as probing as they might be, and also that the final committee report may even miss the real plot, as in the case of the recent REC report on the ferries fiasco. This may also be happening with the harassment enquiry which should probably be best advised by experts such as senior detectives and/or criminal lawyers, but is perhaps instead reliant mainly if not totally on the clerks. Now I don’t know why some Holyrood committees do not appoint expert advisors, it could be a lack of cash, or it may be the administrators that Whitehall sends us to manage Holyrood really don’t care to dig too deep into what goes on in the way civil servants go about their business in Scotland.

  243. Hatuey says:

    Hamerdoon, it’s complicated. Hume was writing well before the scientific method that we take for granted today was established, but it’s worth bearing in mind that science today is based on scepticism, much as he defined it, and when you get right into the philosophical underpinnings of science there’s a sort of admission at the core along the lines of ‘we can’t actually prove anything in absolute terms’. All scientists are sceptics in that sense.

    Causal relationships (causation), according to Hume, were often based on association and assumption rather than direct cause and effect. The example of a guard on a train blowing his whistle and “causing” the train to start moving might, for example. Hume was pointing out that a lot of what was assumed to be causation is actually just association.

    Anyway, someone mentioned the idea of cause and effect and seemed to attribute the invention of the idea to someone. I wondered who since it’s an idea that has been kicking around for at least 3 thousand years – another one stolen and claimed by westerners, like many others.

  244. H Scott says:

    Alf Baird

    Are international ferry routes not reserved?

  245. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

    Alf- are you the Prof Al ?

  246. Alf Baird says:

    H Scott

    “Are international ferry routes not reserved?”

    There is, at the moment, nothing to stop a ferry operator commencing an international ferry service between Scotland and the continent. Much the same as is the case in aviation, to the continent at least. That is not to say, however, that Westminster might, at some time in the future, legislate to prevent such a service. Another good reason for independence, I would have thought, as one can never really trust what Westminster may do, or its branch office here for that matter.

  247. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I was just wondering if the various Scottish seafood exporters, currently crying foul at the absolute clusterfuck in Kent, had thought of the alternative.

    Down to Stranraer, then a short run down Ireland to Rosslare and the ferry to Cherbourg. In an emergency, such as now – it would surely be worth looking at.

  248. Derek says:

    @Alf Baird says:
    22 December, 2020 at 8:17 pm

    We have a kind-of-nationalised ferry company in CalMac, a nationalised shipyard on the Clyde, and could buy the Cockenzie site, which may or may not still have a rail line into it. The A1 is minutes away. Sounds like integrated transport to me…

    The Rosyth ferry was good from local hauliers’ point of view, too; have your driver do almost a day’s driving, and then give them a wagon to go abroad – and that last hour of driving allowance is to take it to the ferry. The road links from Zeebrugge are easy to follow.

    Never used the jacuzzi; I always headed for the sauna!

  249. twathater says:

    Why would anyone be surprised that Sturgeon and co haven’t done anything to render our great seafronts and ports capable of facilitating world trade

    To do so would require foresight and passion in preparation for our country to once again become an independent nation , there is no point when all you are interested in is being a region of greater engerland

    She applies the same energy and passion in our FIGHT for independence , she has NEVER pointed out publicly , convincingly or comparatively to undecideds or no voters ANY benefits , socially , financially or otherwise to being independent


  250. Stuart Mackie says:

    Apparently Tommy Sheppard has been briefing his old Labour mates and reports from Westminster sources say that the last that was seen of him was his Gucci shoes disappearing up Keir Starmmer’s arse. Other rumours of him doing Starmmer’s dirty work and trying to deselect Ash Denham. Is it a coincidence that he got a massive £250k bung for his comedy clubs the week after the selection contest?

  251. CameronB Brodie says:

    I hadn’t planned on punting so much law on this thread, but your man Sir Startup is a barrister. So he should appreciate that without a cognitive approach to law, you have to rely on the integrity of those who choose what is moral and what is not. Which makes you vulnerable to legal practice that supports authoritarianism. 😉

    Book Review: How Hume and Kant Reconstruct Natural Law: Justifying Strict Objectivity without Debating Moral Realism

    “While Westphal does assess the conditions for moral agency when looking at Kant’s moral philosophy in general, he also seems to insist more strongly on the particular human situation when focusing on ‘natural law’ as the set of principles of justice necessary for individual human action under conditions of a plurality of persons with moderately limited resources. […]Westphal’s analysis does not avoid the issue of moral realism yet offer a complete theory. Westphal uses this principle to apply a contradiction test to a ‘maxim of arrogant willing’ that would allow one to use objects possessed by others (p. 160).

    Since this maxim cannot be universalized, a principle for mutual recognition of individual possession of objects is necessary. Overall Westphal’s analysis highlights some very important points about Kant’s moral theory – the central role of rational agency in grounding other parts of ethical theory, the plausibility of universalizability as a test, the dependence of value and dignity on reason’s activity, the vital role of establishing external freedom for morality overall, the limitations of Kant’s defence of property largely to rightful use and the combination of a priori principle with empirical and anthropological considerations in giving content.”

  252. Alf Baird says:

    Derek @ 9.20

    The Cockenzie site is already publicly owned, by East Lothian Council.

    There are a number of international ferry operators around who have vessels in their fleets geared to long-range overnight crossings. Chartering or leasing vessels may be another option.

  253. Derek says:

    “The Cockenzie site is already publicly owned, by East Lothian Council.”

    I didn’t know that; I thought that it might still have belonged to the electricity company, hence my talk about buying it!

  254. lumilumi says:

    What a year it’s been. Scottish independence withering on the vine, Brexit, Covid… SNP shenanigans with the Murrells, Covid and Brexit again.

    BTW, our young female PM doesn’t do daily Covid press conferences. She runs the country. She lets ministers for health, interior etc. (the relevant briefs) and relevant public health authorities, scientists, do their job. The PM only comes out for important stuff. Covid is not an excuse or a vehicle for her career. Nicola, take note.

    I remember when we all thought 2016 was bad. Several well-loved actors or musicians died, Brexit vote and to top it all, Trump got elected…

    Aah, those halcyon days of 2016… Can we go back, please? Everything since then has been increasingly shit.

    Thinking back to 18 September 2014, it’s so sad.

    Scotland is where it is. And sadly, most of it is on Nicola Sturgeon’s head. She never had the fire in her belly like her predecessor Alex Salmond (is that why the alphabetty women, the SNP leadership, the civil service tried to stich him up?)

  255. lumilumi says:

    Anyway, I meant to wish Merry Christmas to everybody on here.

    My Christmas present to you is a very good rendition of my favourite Chritmas song.

    Stupid me didn’t know my favourite Christmas song music was by Sibelius until I was around 20. Ha ha ha. (It’s obvious, when you listen to the music. This is the guy who wrote “Finlandia”.)

    So, music is by Jean Sibelius, original lyrics (in Swedish) by our “national poet” Zacharias Topelius, Finnish lyrics by Martti Korpilahti. There’s a new Finnish translation that’s supposedly “more accurate” but nobody cares.

    We’ll keep on singing the “inaccurate” lyrics that fit the music better than the woke agenda. The song is part of our collective consciouness. You don’t change lyrics because some translation nerd with social justice issues deem it “inaccurate”

    A rough translation of the lyrisc –

    I seek no power, no glory, I desire no gold,
    I ask for heaven’s light and peace on earth.
    Grant us a Christmas that brings happiness and lifts our spirits to God.
    No power nor gold, just peace on earth.

    Grant me a peaceful little home and a children’s Christmas tree,
    and light of God’s word that brightens my soul.
    Bring to every home, even the meanest, our sweetest Christmas.
    The light of God’s word, and noble minds.

    To poor and rich alike, bring your sweet Christmas.
    To the darkness of the world, bring heavenly light.
    I yearn for thee, I wait for thee, thou Lord of Heaven and Earth.
    To poor and rich alike, bring your sweetest Christmas.

  256. CameronB Brodie says:

    Again with the law. I am sorry but things are falling into place for me, and this stuff is crucial to social democracy. So it’s pretty much verboten in Brexitania.

    The Future of International Law is Cognitive – International Law, Cognitive Sociology and Cognitive Pragmatics

    “Scholars today discuss international law from various methodological angles. This Article aims to add perspectives from cognitive science, namely cognitive sociology and cognitive linguistics, or, to be more precise, cognitive pragmatics. It briefly elaborates on these fields’ respective approaches, benefits, and limits.

    To clearly delineate the usefulness of the methodologies, this Article separately applies both approaches to the same example of a process of interpretation in international law. This Article concludes that the two cognitive approaches can help lawyers better understand and implement international law. This not only provides a description of the process of interpretation, but will hopefully enable a better practice of international law.”

  257. ElGordo says:

    Does anyone remember an article (i think in the guardian) from early last week, monday or tuesday.

    They were discussing the evolution of the new strain of the virus, and explained in some detail that the mutation had been caused by treating a patient that had complications to regular treatments (due to imuno-response problems) with blood plasma containing antibodies from a recovered patient.

    They had tracked it back, precisely, to patient zero in a hospital in the south east, that had been treated.

    This all seems to have been lost and never reported on again.

  258. Dan says:

    Tell you what, aw these cardboard and plastic Flamingos that might be coming tae Loch Lommond soon better nae huv the bird flu!

  259. ElGordo says:

    Thanks Dan,

    That was quick!

    That was the article, on Monday 14th December.

    “It began to take off in southern England in August and September.
    The same deletion was spotted when samples of virus were collected from a Cambridge patient with a weakened immune system. The patient was treated with convalescent plasma – blood plasma containing antibodies from a recovered patient. The virus acquired the mutation during that treatment and may have become more resistant to the antibodies. The patient ultimately died from the infection.”

    Imagine most never made it that far into the article.

    I don’t understand why what they said then, regarding the evolution of this new strain, has never been explored or even mentioned, considering the implications and events over the past week.

  260. ElGordo says:

    “The virus acquired the mutation during that treatment and may have become more resistant to the antibodies”

    See that’s the thing that stood out for me and stuck in my head.

    Really don’t get why they are not talking about this now.

  261. Derek says:

    lumilumi says:
    22 December, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    “our young female PM”


    One of my Scottish friends – married a Finn and moved there – has recently passed his citizenship test. My favourite winter holiday destination.

  262. ben madigan says:

    if current talks are successful, Gibraltar which voted 97% to Remain, will enter Schengen.

    British nationals traveling to Gibraltar from the United Kingdom would have to go through passport control, while Spaniards would be able to enter freely and Gibraltarians would have open access to Spain and the other countries that are part of the Schengen Area

  263. willie says:

    Just listened to Priti Patel and she was saying that the queues on the M20 and lorry parks were normal and just part of operational contingency planning.

    Certainly, from the aerial photographs doesn’t look normal to me. 3,000 lorries at a length of about 14 metres in a single line equates to about 42km or 26 miles.

    And with drivers stuck for days in unsanitary conditions how can this be normal. Well, according to Priti its all perfectly normal and working fine.

    But maybe I’m missing something. Maybe the Royal Navy gun boats are clearing a path. And better still, according to another minister, all the supermarkets are stocked full of produce and bare shelves are nothing to worry about.

    Moreover, with the RAF ready to fly in vaccine from countries that are currently banning UK flights you have to stand proud of the British Bulldog spirit – or is it British Bullshit?

    Ports, who needs ports. Well in Scotland anyway. Gunboats, that’s what we need, that’s more like it. And nukes too. That’ll sort Johnny Frog and his cheese eating surrender pals out. Same goes for Hans Kraut, who after all lost the war.

    In fact its probably these brigands who’ve waylaid our big yellow Brexit bus carrying the £350m a day loot that the NHS was going to get from Brexit.

    Make you proud to be a Britisher – God save, Rule Britannia et al.

  264. Beaker says:

    Oops. Seems like the FM forgot to put on her mask. Tsk tsk. Chatting to pensioners in a pub.

    Tomorrow’s party political briefing should be interesting.

  265. Lenny Hartley says:

    Alf Baird, talk to Angus Brendan MacNeil about Eyemouth he is interested.

  266. Lenny Hartley says:

    Alf Baird Cockenzie Doh

  267. Derek says:

    Beaker, was at a wake apparently.

  268. Hamerdoon says:

    Hatuey says:
    22 December, 2020 at

    Thanks for that.

    I understand the principle of falsification and the scientific method. It seems to me that Hume appeared to be arguing that inductive reasoning did not indicate causal relationships; something that is a limitation in such approaches. That is, taking the specific observation and drawing generalised conclusions. This is usually in qualitative research where it can be difficult to introduce robust controls. I’m not sure he was arguing the same thing for deductive approaches especially in the manner he suggests it is reasoned (Mathematics etc.). Basically, I’m unsure if he would accept cause and effect for deductive reasoning where you look at the general and try to understand how the specific constituents make it so.

    I find the debates around philosophy, and the current relativist approaches, interesting and relevant to how we have arrived at a situation where simple empirical truths can be neutered in the pursuit of ideology.

  269. holymacmoses says:

    I’m not sure FM forgot to put on her mask. I think FM was stirring up a minor shitstorm that all her pals and most of Scotland will defend her in and I think it will serve as a nice bit of misdirection from the topics on which she really should be resigning.
    Create a minor diversion while the major one slips by through the back door and so she settles back comfortably into her old ways.

  270. CameronB Brodie says:

    “I find the debates around philosophy, and the current relativist approaches, interesting and relevant to how we have arrived at a situation where simple empirical truths can be neutered in the pursuit of ideology.”

    That’s what I’m trained to navigate, though my tracking and interpretive skills are dulled through neglect. Along with my capacity to communicate convincingly, apparently.

    Property law: A cognitive turn

    “Despite more than a century of research by psychologists on issues relating to the law, most such research has focused on a small subset of topics relevant to the legal system.

    Here, I review several legal topics amenable to psychological research that fall under the broad umbrella of property law: (1) how the concepts of property and ownership are represented cognitively; (2) the relationship between wealth and happiness, consumer behavior, and the priming effect of money concepts; (3) animal and child development in cognition about and behavior toward property and ownership; and (4) the relevance of psychological research on home to legal policy.

    These and other areas provide potential research agendas for cognitive and social cognitive psychologists. After noting the importance of such research for legal doctrine, theory, and policy, I close with suggestions for effectively communicating empirical findings to the legal community.

  271. North chiel says:

    Very “ illuminating “ tonight to read Alf Baird ‘s ( and others ) comments on transportation links etc from Scotland . I find it particularly “ galling” that millions of pounds worth of perishable Scottish food and seafood exports are going to be lost in the Dover “ lorry park”. Devastating losses to Scottish businesses and particularly most probably “ small businesses , some now facing bankruptcy.
    Where is the the Scottish transport minister and business minister on this ? Where is the “ crisis cabinet meetings on this ? If this had been a “ Public sector issue” undoubtedly there would have been “crisis cabinet & emergency resilience meetings” etc etc. Why is there no emergency contingency plans to assist our Scottish exporters ? For goodness sake the Scottish government OWNS Prestwick airport . Would it not be possible to redirect especially seafood exporters to Prestwick & for emergency cargo transportation flights arranged to France & Spain to these European customers , and the Christmas markets . ( Perhaps the “ Scottish” military could have assisted?) . Surely a cheaper option to spend some thousands of pounds now to secure these millions of pounds worth of exports , rather than “ compensating” these businesses weeks or months “ down the line “ . ( if some of them even remain in business?).
    Notwithstanding that a No Deal or even a bad deal Brexit on Jan 1st would probably cause similar catastrophic issues for our Scottish exporters ?? Where is our Scottish governments strategy, planning and response to this London Westminster ongoing shambles . Do they just “ shrug their shoulders” and do nothing ? Or is it possible for them to REACT AND DO SOMETHING as right now and for some time it is very apparent that this London Westminster Tory Brexit ZEALOTS Junta is FAILING OUR COUNTRY , FAILING OUR SCOTTISH CITIZENS, and FAILING OUR SCOTTISH BUSINESSES . Where Westminster is failing , we should EXPECT our Edinburgh Scottish Government to ACT DECISIVELY to PROTECT our CITIZENS & BUSINESSES.
    Come on let’s have some action !! Start the new year with a DECLARATION OF INTENT and CONFRONT the LONDON WESTMINSTER so called “ Government “
    The time for inaction is over FM . Stop hiding behind the pandemic, as this virus is going to be with us for years . Either CONFRONT Westminster on JAN 1st or stand down .

  272. twathater says:

    @ Beaker 12.00am It’s all right beaker Humsa useless said that Sturgeon apologised and that she is hard on herself for forgetting to do so
    I’m an auld git and forget things a lot but if I was doing press conferences every day to BOOST my popularity and part of those press reports was the continued insistence for people to abide by health regulations and wear a mask to PROTECT OTHERS and was repeatedly spouting FACTS (face coverings etc)I think it maybe uppermost in my mind

    Maybe I’m just an old cynic but their appears to be a VIRUS running through the SG that affects memory functions which has gotten worse recently , FIRST we have civil servants that can’t remember things , then we have the ADVOCATE can’t remember things , then we have the husband of the FM that can’t remember things , then we have Humza useless that can’t remember he has NO car insurance , NOW we have a FM that can’t remember the FIRST part of FACTS I.E. wear a mask

  273. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wasn’t bullshitting folk when I said I know a bit about law that is sensitive to cognitive linguistics and Natural law. Which means it is sensitive to bio-neurological individuality, supportive of ontological and epistemic pluralism, and is capable of legally respecting difference. So here’s a look at “COGNITIVE LINGUISTICS AND THE LAW”.

    “Cognitive Linguistics (CL) believes that the study of language can be informative with regards to human thought processes. If language is built on top of more basic, non-linguistic cognitive skills, then some of the mechanisms behind language must surely also be used in other areas of cognition. This means that some of the explanations proposed by CL could help us clarify aspects of human behavior that go well beyond language.

    The present work is an attempt at looking at a number of mechanisms used in CL to explain language, and see how they shed light on one specific human area: that of our current legal system. The claim is that the processes that constitute our legal systems can be seen from a fresh perspective and can probably be better understood using some of the insights of cognitive linguistics. We will focus preferentially on mechanisms such as categorization processes, the windowing of attention, and framing strategies, including the use of metaphors.”

  274. Hatuey says:

    Hamerdoon, yes, you’re right.

    When you think about the distinction between inductive and deductive reasoning, it could be said that one is concerned with producing theories and the other is concerned with disproving them. That’s probably simplistic but it sort of works.

    I’m not sure about what you say on qualitive research since the above is as relevant to quantitative research.

    All of this stuff came to an end, as I understand it, with AJ Ayer (logical positivism etc.) and more sophisticated ways of discussing things like language itself and its role, as well as more modern and useful definitions of concepts like “truth”.

    Give or take a couple of crumbling layers of delusion, I’m settling into the idea that I’m pretty thick deep down inside. Accordingly, my understanding is that you can only ever disprove things using science; you can’t actually prove anything outside of mathematics (and apparently even there it is possible that in some other galaxy or parallel universe 2 + 2 may equal 5).

  275. Hatuey says:

    CamB: “…my tracking and interpretive skills are dulled through neglect. Along with my capacity to communicate convincingly, apparently.”

    I’m not sure what you mean 😐

  276. Beaker says:

    @twathater says:
    23 December, 2020 at 1:46 am
    “@ Beaker 12.00am It’s all right beaker Humsa useless said that Sturgeon apologised and that she is hard on herself for forgetting to do so
    Maybe I’m just an old cynic but their appears to be a VIRUS running through the SG that affects memory functions which has gotten worse recently , ”

    Humza forgot about his car insurance, so he’s speaking from experience.

    Best comment on Twitter was by a guy who pointed out that not only did she not have a mask on, but she was in the pub he’s not been able to go to for 6 weeks!

    We’ve got 9 days left in 2020. Wonder who will be the next public figure to make a COVID fuck up. Any suggestions?

  277. Beaker says:

    Memory lapse must be catching. I forgot you already said about Humza and his car insurance. 🙂

    Fuck me I need a holiday.

  278. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve been trying to point folk towards a scientific approach to defending their legal rights and supporting Scotland’s democracy, but that’s perceived as trolling by some.

    “Cognitive science faces a representativeness problem, with most research occurring in educated, industrialized populations. A review of 10 years of cross-cultural research shows progress in remedying this, but research is still bimodally distributed between educated city dwellers and small rural populations.

    The decade has seen progress in understanding individual cognition (e.g., perception, reasoning), interpersonal cognition (theory of mind, personality), and societal cognition (social learning, norms, cooperation, morality).

    Formal models of social learning and cultural evolution are improving our understanding of the mechanisms underlying human variation and similarity, but we remain far from a satisfying account of human nature and human cognitive universals. Without a more inclusive cognitive science, our portrait of human cognition will remain incomplete.”

  279. twathater says:

    Breeks and anyone else interested in constitutional independence or electricscotland I would hazard a guess that Scottish Digital Covenant is a modern take on that and is well worth signing up to

  280. ben madigan says:


    Quite true.

    Why? (I’ll state the obvious here!!)
    Because Scotland is set on a different course to England – voting Remain when England voted Leave, calling for Independence when England wants to strengthen its “precious Union”,because it needs Scotland’s land and wealth, with PM Johnson nominating himself “Minister for the Union”.

    Remember: England is vindictive and will not forgive Scotland for rowing against it.

    Will FM Sturgeon answer your call to “CONFRONT Westminster on JAN 1st or stand down” ?

    Do you think she will say, something like what Theobald Wolfe Tone said in the 1790s
    “to subvert the tyranny of our execrable government,to break the connection with England, the never failing source of all our political evils and to assert the independence of my country – these are my objectives”
    And then match words and actions?

  281. Hatuey says:

    We are all trolls, camB, don’t worry about it. And anyone that takes this comments section too seriously is the biggest troll of all.

    So, here’s Jason Leitch explaining his approval of “herd immunity” back in March – his only concern was the use of the phrase itself which he believed had negative connotations. Skip to 13 minutes on the nose for that part or watch the whole thing – it’s all quite shocking on various levels.

  282. CameronB Brodie says:

    I might be rusty but that doesn’t mean I’m selling folks a dummy. Or stroking my ego in public. So here’s a look at “S.I. : Explanations in Cognitive Science: Unification vs Pluralism.

    Representational unification in cognitive science: Is embodied cognition a unifying perspective?

  283. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s just as well my trolling has some variety to it then. 🙂

    Mental Models in Cognitive Science

    “If cognitive science does not exist then it is necessary to invent it. That slogan accommodates any reasonable attitude about the subject. One attitude – an optimistic one – is that cognitive science already exists and is alive and flourishing in academe: we have all in our different ways been doing it for years.

    The gentleman in Moliere’s play rejoiced to discover that he had been speaking prose for forty years without realizing it: perhaps we are merely celebrating a similar discovery. And, if we just keep going on in the same way, then we are bound to unravel the workings of the mind.

    Another attitude – my own – is more pessimistic: experimental psychology is not going to succeed unaided in elucidating human mentality; artificial intelligence is not going to succeed unaided in modelling the mind; nor is any other discipline – linguistics, anthropology, neuroscience, philosophy – going to have any greater success. If we are ever to understand cognition, then we need a new science dedicated to that aim and based only in part on its contributing disciplines.

    Yet pessimism should not be confused with cynicism. We should reject the view that cognititie science is merely a clever ruse dreamed up to gain research funds – that it is nothing more than six disciplines in search of a grant-giving agency….”

  284. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m sure some see I have a sense of humour and that I’m not punting ideological gibberish. 🙂

    The psychology and neuroscience of curiosity

    “Curiosity is a basic element of our cognition, yet its biological function, mechanisms, and neural underpinning remain poorly understood. It is nonetheless a motivator for learning, influential in decision-making, and crucial for healthy development.

    One factor limiting our understanding of it is the lack of a widely agreed upon delineation of what is and is not curiosity; another factor is the dearth of standardized laboratory tasks that manipulate curiosity in the lab. Despite these barriers, recent years have seen a major growth of interest in both the neuroscience and psychology of curiosity.

    In this Perspective, we advocate for the importance of the field, provide a selective overview of its current state, and describe tasks that are used to study curiosity and information-seeking. We propose that, rather than worry about defining curiosity, it is more helpful to consider the motivations for information-seeking behavior and to study it in its ethological context.”

  285. North chiel says:

    “ Ben Madigan says @ 0222 a.m “ I am eternally hopeful Ben . Our FM has served her “ apprenticeship “ as FM , on Jan 1st our New Year’s day ( with Auld Lang Syne known & sung the World over ) needs a STATESMAN or STATESWOMAN to STEP FORWARD and declare that the SOVEREIGNTY of THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE will be RESTORED this year of 2021 . No more PREVARICATION. The Westminster Tory “ Omnishambles” of a government MUST BE CONFRONTED.

  286. CameronB Brodie says:

    Something has to be done to change both of ‘our’ government’s approach to the law, or else there is no foreseeable future for Scottish culture. Which would be a crime against humanity, not just Scots.


  287. JaMuR says:

    32 posts on the one thread Cameron.

    Stuart asked you to calm it and informed you than nobody clicks on your links but you don’t give two fucks do you.

    And no, I don’t care if your ethically trained in law and bla bla bla.

  288. Al-Stuart says:


    Dear Stuart,

    Unlike CameronBB Brodie, I actually do have qualifications, bona fides, legal credentials and proper certificates in the law. Specifically Scots law. But also UK law and state/federal law/leo protocols in America.

    With bitter irony, it is years practising that very law and the work undertaken therein that brings about PTSD at 04.50am in the morning.

    Sadly, Iike so many other Scots, I already left this website. Because anyone who tries to read through BTL, becomes distracted, then bored rigid by your incessant, interminable, resident troll. Most threads descend into the parasitic plaything of CameronBB Brodie…

    Wings Over Cameron

    But at daft-o-clock in the morning with PTSD riddled insomnia, I visit this old literary neighbourhood. To find CamSpam is turbocharged drinking Red Bull on nightshift and dayshift doubling up his degradation of your site.

    Stuart, for the love of God, please do something about your CamSpam infestation? It is admirable you defended his right to free speech, but as you set a gold-standard in actuarial research qualities, surely you of all people can see how prolific this person is at commandeering your threads? How many people have left because of CamSpam?

    You set the bench-mark for focussing upon matters that are crucially important to Scotland.

    As the saying goes: “You spoke truth to power”. In that you spotted what Nicola Sturgeon and her GRA McWoke Brigade were up to. You did this light years before anyone else.

    Stuart, Scottish politics may be in a turgid state of torpor just now, but we need someone with your forensic skill-set to STOP THE ORWELLIAN 1984 Humza Crime Bill before it is enacted because the end-game of that bill is the end of free speech in Scotland.

    That means the end of sites such as Wings Over Scotland.

    Instead, as so many have left the BTL part of this website, the CamSpam problem is becoming more and more evident. Proportionately your WoS threads routinely contain 25% to 30% of off-topic CamSpam.

    CameronBB Brodie is selling everyone a dummy by his unqualified rusty copy-and-past mind-numbing drivel. He/she/it has gone from commandeering 10% of each BTL segment and often exceeds 25% of each thread. Does CameronBB Brodie win a prize if he/she/it reaches 50% of your Wings Over Cameron BTL content?

    Several folk manage to ignore CamSpam and virtually no one clicks his links, a fact confirmed by yourself at the WordPress Control panel,

    But things have gotten worse. CamSpam has taken his trollistic polluting to the next level by copy-and-pasting lengthy screeds of text abstracts containing OFF-topic obscure litany and inserting thousands of extra CamSpam words onto every thread of YOUR actual Wings Over Scotland BTL segment.

    Stuart, this is distressing for those that used to visit Wings daily. Sometimes two or three times each day and enjoy a debate, not a pseudo-academic nonentity who failed his B.Ed. Cameron now, haunts your site in a way that causes rational folk to worry about Brodie’s mental health.

    Surely it is time to go on holiday and take a rest yourself?

    I fear that if/when the next WoS fundraiser is launched, it will be a pale shadow of the glory years. I am ever hopeful your warnings about Sturgeon will have become public currency in sufficient time to reinvigorate yourself and your work. To have sufficient supporters engaged in meaningful debate to fund the WoS fundraiser. Because I ain’t funding CamSpam parasitise self aggrandisement on your internet service provider and I wager a fair few others are similarly ostracised by your reader-repellent CBB?

    We SHOULD be helping rebuild the REAL SNP once Sturgeon and her toxic cabal are gone.

    But no. Instead we have the deranged rants of an unqualified legal wannabe who lacks qualification, experience and is excruciatingly unaware of his/her/its repellant effect. So much so that he is succeeding in losing Wings readers almost at an equal rate to the Sturgeon McWoke debacle.

    Thanks for the good years Stuart, I genuinely wish you well. You worked your socks off for the best part of a decade. As for Wings Over Scotland?

    Surely Wings Over Scotland deserves better than to be sunk into ignominy by the uber-spamming troll-in-chief who arrogantly writes comments such as: “Thanks for tuning in” to his BTL section of Wings Over Cameron.

  289. Breeks says:

    North chiel says:
    23 December, 2020 at 3:04 am
    “ Ben Madigan says @ 0222 a.m “ I am eternally hopeful Ben . Our FM has served her “ apprenticeship “ as FM , on Jan 1st our New Year’s day ( with Auld Lang Syne known & sung the World over ) needs a STATESMAN or STATESWOMAN to STEP FORWARD and declare that the SOVEREIGNTY of THE SCOTTISH PEOPLE will be RESTORED this year of 2021 . No more PREVARICATION. The Westminster Tory “ Omnishambles” of a government MUST BE CONFRONTED.

    Sturgeon’s “cometh the hour” moment was January 31st last year, when the gutless wretch capitulated to Scotland’s Brexit, instead of developing a Scottish Constitutional Backstop to defend our Nation’s Sovereignty. We have proof such a strategy would have been successful, in Northern Ireland, but had Scotland secured such status, Scotland would have gone one better, and the whole Treaty of Union would have been rendered untenable, – irremediably breached by Westminster’s incompetence with the delicious irony of no culpability falling on Scotland.

    Her sin is not ‘just’ interminable prevarication, she has actually sold Scotland out, and lumped us all with dangerous constitutional precedents which no Scottish leader should EVER have conceded. In particular, presenting Westminster with the power of veto over Scotland’s democracy. If the precedents cannot be overturned, Sturgeon’s ineptitude has presented Scotland with a big and enduring problem.

    Yes we do need a Statesman or Stateswoman to step forward and retrieve this desperate situation, but Nicola Sturgeon is a dud, and has no such capacity. She’s a self serving charlatan who shouldn’t be trusted, but should be properly impeached for her unconstitutional vandalism, political cowardice, and the whole shit-fest of her grubby conspiracy against Alex Salmond.

    Personally, I am convinced that Scotland needs a contemporary equivalent of the Scottish UN Committee, focussed on defending and reaffirming Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty. The original committee was wound up in 2007, presumably because it was assumed it’s roll would be fulfilled by the Devolved Scottish Assembly. That should have been true, but Sturgeon’s arbitrary abdication of sovereignty is sorry proof that Scotland still needs a competent and authoritative Constitutional Guardian like the former Scottish UN Committee.

    Sturgeon is poison to the whole Independence cause, a bumbling incompetent, and her grip on power needs to be removed with all possible speed.

  290. Robert Graham says:

    This Tory lot just cant bring themselves to tell the truth
    This marking on LBC a government Minister says well thats it the trucks are now moving ,OH really a few things he missed out the French officials are not accepting this wonderful half hour test neither are the Germans the only ones free to travel are French citizens EU nationals or British people resident in a EU country with a urgent travel requirement
    Not exactly the whole or full appraisal of the situation

  291. Key question this year:

    Will the unmasking of Sturgeon bring about her demise?

  292. Ottomanboi says:

    In the story of the king’s new clothes the masses were told the king was dressed in his finest and believed it. Only a small boy saw the king in all his grotesque nakedness.
    That pandemic, the associated faux ‘science’, political parties, leaders and all the rest claiming authority over us, all illusion, delusion and mind games.
    2021, the year of seeing very clearly.
    A reset, but not as ‘they’ would wish it.

  293. ronnie anderson says:

    Stuart Campbell

    I would add my name to the post at 5.05am . Cameron B Brodie is on medication for mental health issues & has been for years .

    I had a long discussion with him re Mega Cisterna Magna that left him taking medication the rest of his life , he has no Law Degree’s ( trained as a Town Planner in Dundee ).

    I stopped subscribing to WoS Cameron B Brodie being one reason ( as many long time supporters have have done because of CBB ) , in saying that I will still support crowdfunders .

    Please please Stuart heed the pleas of Wingers who know CBB personally for the sake of the readership of WoS .

  294. paul says:


    CBB strikes me as slightly ill, but as long as I can scroll past his activities, I think we should just be kind, and accept the village idiot.

  295. JaMuR says:

    He’s even ruined the back to the future movies for me .

  296. Ronald Fraser says:

    Ronnie Anderson 8.50 am

    If Cam Brodie upsets you so much, then why the fuck do you spend time reading his posts.

    Just scroll past.

    It’s dead simple.

    Are you one of the little helpers from the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website, sent here to “mix it”.

    Nobody is forcing you to read his posts and NOBODY is forcing you to even visit the Wings Over Scotland website.

    It seems to me like a bit of self inflicted pain to me.

  297. The Dissident says:


    I enjoyed your posts on the port options on the Forth.

    However, we already have a functional container port on the Forth at Grangemouth. It also suffers from being quite far up the estuary but it is right on the major Scottish motorway network. (It could be argued that the Avon Gorge connection between M8 and M9 needs upgraded but even at the moment there are decent all motorway alternatives via the M80 or Newbridge)

    My understanding of Grangemouth is that it is not suitable for large vessels – I don’t know whether that is a harbour issue or because of the clearance allowed by the bridges. Do you know and are there any options to increase its capacity?

    It might be worth pointing out that regardless of who is responsible for ports, it is Westminster who is responsible for customs and that means that they would have to staff the port adequately. At present, I believe, that no customs staff are based permanently there and I have personal experience of imported containers being delayed waiting for a customs official to visit and authorise release.

  298. Johnny says:

    Whatever else is the case, I’d not let anyone talking drivel in the comments make me “leave Wings website”.

    I think some folk are confused about where the “content” is (I hesitate to use that term but…) on this website. It’s above the line.

    I read the comments on occasion like some because I’m interested to know what folk think.

    But if they got very turgid I’d just ignore the comments altogether, as I’ve had to do on sites like Scot Goes Pop when it has been “infested” by trolls as well.

    But in both cases it is the sites’ author who is providing the meat and potatoes and most of the info and insight. And I’m damned if I’m going to let comment section quality stop me reading it.

  299. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I note this thread has descended into pleas for the Rev to get rid of CBB.

    In this, it is typically Scottish – a lot of unhappy people standing around saying: Wull somebodie dae something’ aboot X Y or Z.

    We are waiting for somebody to dae somethin’ aboot yon Nicola Sturgeon, or yon Peter Murrell, or yon Weak Pishart, or yon Liz Lloyd or Leslie Evans.

    OK I accept, in dealing with some of the above, those of us in the body of the kirk can do little, other than try to put pressure on the better-placed, who maybe could do something.

    However, as regards CBB, we can all do something, I know I certainly have. Whenever I see his name at the start of a btl post, I scroll on past. It is that simple.

    I feel the guy clearly has mental health issues, but, it’s the Rev’s thread, and if you believe, like the Rev, on freedom of speech, then CBB has to be allowed to post his pish – but, we are not forced to read it.

    Ignore him, do not interact. Eventually even the loon iest loonie gives up.

  300. There are over 300 comments on this article already.

    Who the heck has the time to read them all? Or the desire?

    This witch-hunt against an individual commenter is really p*ssing me off and those calling for CBB to be blocked should themselves be blocked.

    And then they have the brass neck to say they want Scotland to be an inclusive independent country!

    LOL! LOL! LOL!

  301. John Digsby says:

    @Robert Graham

    Not so re: lateral flow tests. The French have now accepted that those results can be used. You are right that their initial position was PCR only, but this was negotiated away by Grant Schapps and probably with a little EU pressure

  302. mike cassidy says:

    My xmas present to you all got lost in the post last night

    So here’s another go

    Take time out from debate

    To listen to brilliant young Scottish comedian Daniel Sloss roadtesting new material in Los Angeles just before lockdown

    Worth it for the Syria joke alone

  303. Robert Graham says:

    Eurostar 15mintes ago updated travel information

    All passengers traveling to France must have a a PCR test before being allowed to travel

    That’s in answer to John Digsbys comment

  304. Ronald Fraser says:

    Regarding the News that is fed to us on a daily basis, can I ask for somebody in the Scottish government or even an SNP MP to sit down with the producers of:-

    BBC News
    Sky News
    ITV News

    And ask them all directly, “What relevance has your news bulletins to the people of Scotland?”

    Their News bulletins are 99% aimed at the people of England. The other 1% is for their foreign audience.

    Yet the BBC want to send Scots to prison if we don’t pay for the privilege of hearing about all things english.

    Sky News is as pro english as the BBC News.

    And ITV News a mixture of the BBC and Sky News with a hint of Hello magazine thrown in for good measure.

    And the three of them are all London centric.

    Scotland Wales and N Ireland got the patronising 2 minute fly through.

    Then it’s straight back to all things english.

    And I see Sky News have their favourite House Jock back from America. James Mathews detests everything Scottish, especially the thought of us having another Referendum.

    So he was just drooling when reporting this morning on Sturgeon and face mask Gate.

  305. Republicofscotland says:

    Boris Johnson and Sir Keir Starmer continue to stuff the House of Lords with party donors, pals and apparatchiks.

  306. Stuart MacKay says:

    Breeks, re: “cometh the hour”

    Reading through the stuff on Electric Scotland it was obvious that back in ’79 etc. the energy was all about building a country. Now the SNP is filled with administrators. That’s the real curse of devolution – you replace the separatists and the revolutionaries with bureaucrats.

    To gain independence the SNP are going to have to break themselves in two groupings: one to build the infrastructure and the other working to break the country free. It’s literally impossible to do both at the same time with the same people – the mentality required for each is utterly incompatible.

    It might be possible to do that and still keep the party intact. Salmond showed this is possible but it’s a complete sea-change from what we have now and certain individuals will have to give up all control and we all know how likely that is at the moment.

    There’s no “me” in “Independence”.

  307. robert Hughes says:

    Once again Nicola The Great has allowed the MSM an opportunity to put the boot in : by insisting so strenuously on the ” wear a mask or kill your granny ” dogma and then ” forgetting ” ( hmmm ) to apply that rule to herself her petard is being hoisted all over the front pages .The master strategy in scoring own goals continues relentlessly

  308. Breeks says:

    Stuart MacKay says:
    23 December, 2020 at 10:16 am

    Breeks, re: “cometh the hour”

    Reading through the stuff on Electric Scotland it was obvious that back in ’79 etc. the energy was all about building a country…

    I agree.

    Back then, Scotland’s political representation was broadly comparable to former Nations swallowed up by the Soviet Bloc, and this treatment of Scotland undermined the West’s arguments and propaganda against direct rule from Moscow, and was a potential embarrassment for NATO.

    Two big changes rendering those circumstances obsolete, are first the collapse of Communist Eastern Europe, and second, the establishment of a devolved Scottish Assembly.

    In this regard, the Scottish UN Committee was completely successful in it’s objectives, although, the SNP people involved were described as ‘un-sung’ heroes, and Labour went on to claim all the accolades for establishing Devolution and Holyrood.

    The thrust of my argument now however, has a 2020 agenda, which isn’t about sticking two fingers up at the Kremlin, nor establishing a devolved assembly where none existed.

    Instead, the crisis facing Scotland is the colonial subjugation of our Constitutional Sovereignty via Brexit, and the singular failure of Holyrood to step up to the plate and defend Scotland’s Constitutional rights under International Law.

    If Holyrood and the Scottish Government was on the ball and fighting Scotland’s corner internationally, then there would be no need for a Scottish UN Committee.

    But since Holyrood under Sturgeon is proving itself to be little better than a Vichy Government of a subjugated Nation, then the need for a fierce and uncompromising Scottish UN ‘type’ Committee seems self evident, and establishing such a thing would seem to be a very constructive use of our time and resources.

  309. Mist001 says:

    Sturgeon without a mask at a social gathering, talking to a group of what we’ve been constantly told is the most ‘at risk’ people, the old.

    Not a good look.

    Sturgeon would have been down on anyone else like a tonne of bricks but no, she gives a Tony Blair style apology, holds her hands up, says they were stupid and that they’re sorry, then it’s all over with.

    Kudos to the person who got the photo though, that’s the first off duty pap shot I’ve seen of Sturgeon.

  310. Alf Baird says:

    The Dissident @ 9.16

    I used to run container ships between the Forth and Continent. Yes, Grangemouth is Scotland’s main container port, though with rather modest traffic volumes, i.e. less than Reykjavik. It is a long way from the open sea and the maximum ship size is limited to the modest lock dimensions. Water depth access to the lock is also limited and larger laden boats can only access at or close to high water, i.e. delay. Higher ferries and cruise ships cannot get under the rail bridge hence G’mouth no use for them. So G’mouth in general cargo terms is only suited to modest size container vessels with focus on less time sensitive transhipment traffic and less on intra-Europe trade, most of the latter moving by ferry via ports in England.

    I believe the few container lines calling G’mouth will eventually drop their services there due to the cost and inconvenience involved in sending ships to the port. Forth Ports seem to be gearing up for that by starting container block trains from the port to their other port at Tilbury. So G’mouth could become simply a ‘dry-port’, another Coatbridge.

    I’ve proposed what we call a ‘trimodal’ port at Cockenzie/ Preston Links. A facility there would be able to use road, direct rail, and inland navigation/barge, much like we see in many continental ports. A frequent low-cost barge service (battery-electric) could connect Cockenzie to Grangemouth. Studies have been done on that, and also to run a barge to Methil where the very large volume of container traffic from Diageo could be shipped directly across the Forth to Cockenzie to connect with the continent ferries. This would help take an awful lot of freight off the roads.

    So in my view G’mouth is not the solution if we want to develop Scotland’s trade with the continent or wider. It may be part of the solution, however. Put simply, shipping has fundamentally changed esp. over the past 50 years, boats have got much larger, port turnaround much faster, ship type has changed, and trying to deal with this with a constrained Victorian canal port is no answer whatsoever.

  311. The Dissident says:

    Thanks Alf – very helpful.

  312. Alf Baird says:

    North chiel @ 1.46

    In perhaps oblique colonial style Scotland is still being mightily plundered and left to decay, before our eyes. The colonial administration masquerading as a ‘Scottish Government’ appears content with that, for it is doing nothing to stop it.

    Yet the international dimension is critical to Scotland’s independence cause with direct trading and hence cultural links as a key part of this, and where a nation’s ports and shipping connections are absolutely essential. This is in addition to the strategic geopolitical and diplomatic linkages people such as Ambassador Murray should have been leading for us.

    As Frantz Fanon noted:

    “Far from keeping aloof from other nations…it is national liberation which leads the nation to play its part on the stage of history. It is at the heart of national consciousness that international consciousness lives and grows. And this two-fold emerging is ultimately the source of all culture.”

  313. ronnie anderson says:

    Socrates MacSpooran 9.24 I well know CBB is in need of Mental intervention as has happened before in him not taking his medication & the Rev blocking him for a time put him back on track .

    I do scroll past his garbage posts .

    To the 9.16 poster GO take ah good fuck to Yourself ya Troll

  314. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mike Cassidy , thanks for that , I needed a laugh.

  315. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Al Baird

    Many thanks for your posts on Scotlands port situation and its neglect.

    Do you have any links/Pdfs to reports with maps etc. to help us all here to get a more informed overview.
    Maybe you could do a post here, if the Rev didn’t mind as it deals with Scotlands future. I know we still have to get independence first.. 🙂

    BTW, one of Europes biggest, important ports is Hamburg. It’s about a 100Km inland from the coast, down the small river Elbe which needs constant dredging to allow the ships up to and down from Hamburg. The big container ships. Top connections but a hinterland with nothing but agriculture.

    There are other ports right on the coast, Bremerhaven, Emden etc. but non can touch Hamburg.

  316. Stuart MacKay says:

    Alf Baird,

    > A frequent low-cost barge service (battery-electric) could connect Cockenzie to Grangemouth.

    Now, if only we lived in a country where there was an abundance of low cost electricity generated from, say, wind.

    Why don’t we see this kind of thinking on a regular basis. That’s the kind of talk that gets people excited about the future. There is energy and determination which makes a vote for “Yes” a no-brainer.

    Gradualism is timid in comparison. Just a few small changes here and there. Not too much that it embarrasses our neighbour but just enough that justifies having a separate bureaucracy dedicated to making things just a wee bit better.

    Free school meals, maybe, if we win the election? Well the free meals are needed today. Not next month, next year or after the next election. Today! That’s so fundamental I’m shocked it was not done years ago. If the pinnacle of government thinking is just the bleeding obvious there’s no wonder there’s no progress to independence – there’s no chapter for it in the “Administration For Dummies” book.

  317. North chiel says:

    “ Breeks says@ 0637 a.m. , don’t disagree with much of what you say . I find it so ironic that the FM being the most prominent person who “ champions equality for women & female leadership in Scotland is the very person who displays the classic female traits of “ passiveness & subordination in her dealings with BJ & Westminster . Perhaps our FM on Jan 1st can prove me wrong.

  318. Alf Baird says:

    Graf Midgehunter @ 11.23

    My paper published by the Jimmy Reid Foundation a couple of years back (‘Increased trade and economic growth won’t happen in Scotland till we sort out our ports’), which you can download, contains over 20 references to other academic papers I have published on shipping and port matters:

    Re Hamburg, I was external examiner for university shipping courses in Hamburg for many years, and at one time I also worked for the ‘Leith, Hull & Hamburg Steam Packet Co’, so I know a wee bit about shipping there. Firstly, Hamburg is not a ferry port – ferries, which carry most intra-Europe trade nowadays, do not tend to call at ports located far upriver. Hamburg is primarily a deep-sea container port with strong rail connections to the hinterland, hence also serves a good deal of Eastern Europe as well as Baltic ports via feeder ships.

    What is also important to note is that Hamburg is a city state, and indeed a free and hanseatic one. Its economy is essentially the port. So Hamburg will happily pay enormous costs to dredge and maintain the artificial water depth in the Elbe to ensure that the largest container ships continue to pass close to Frau Muller’s back garden on the Elbchaussee. However this is a political decision and does not alter the fact that the largest mega container ships today are rather obviously more suited to coastal port locations, and indeed offshore transhipment terminals, which tend to have natural deep water, as are today’s mega ferries and cruise vessels. In other words, most major ports have developed their terminals downstream rather than upstream except in instances where port state jurisdiction does not extend to the river mouth, such as Hamburg, and Antwerp also in respect of the Scheldt.

  319. Jack says:

    Irrespective of the mask issue, despite what her supporters are claiming on social media, Nicola Sturgeon is most certainly not 2 m ( 6ft 5 inches) away from those women in that photograph. She has not socially distanced herself from them.

  320. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Ronald Fraser @ 10.00am

    Thought-provoking post. As a journalist, I often wonder what will happen to our media post-Independence.

    Obviously, the current position of mainly “putting a kilt,” on what are basically English papers cannot continue. Will the current high heid yins inside the Scottish media be able to cope with the step change to being Scottish-owned and Scottish-based outlets.

    But, the big question will be, what happens when in a newly-independent Scotland, the BBC is telt – by the way, you are now a foreign media outlet – how will the House Jocks at Pacific Quay cope?

    It’s going to be very interesting. However, it’s a minor question, we have to get ourselves free of England first, then we can worry about such side issues.

  321. Dunadd says:

    The BBC is already a foreign media outlet.

  322. Hatuey says:

    Isn’t it funny watching all the business tycoons begging for state welfare and support? So much for their love of the free market and laissez faire. They’ve been cutting wages, benefits, and worker’s protections for decades and now they’re the biggest welfare recipients in all history — the UK government handed them about 30 billion last month.

    After the market collapse of 2008, I argued against bailing the banks out. For the same reasons and what it’s worth, I’m still against bail-outs, and that includes the so-called furlough scheme. If companies can’t survive covid-19 and afford to pay staff, let them close down and let their staff claim benefits.

    I’m sure if we did that we’d hear a lot of people shouting about how meagre benefits were and how it’s not enough to live on; in other words, millions of people who thoughtlessly voted Tory for years and were happy to sit and watch when austerity killed about 200 thousand people would suddenly discover their sense of social responsibility and find themselves to the left of Jeremy Corbyn.

    What’s not to like? If we are going to play at capitalism, let’s stop cheating and stick to the rules. And if we aren’t playing at that, what are playing and what are the rules?

  323. Alf Baird says:

    Stuart MacKay @ 11.53

    You are right, and there is great potential to develop Cockenzie/Preston Links as a green port as well as being Scotland’s International Gateway Port. The sub station for the cable connecting the offshore wind farms is located here. Ships would be able to plug into clean shoreside power. Cargo handling equipment can also be battery powered. And inland barges batteries re-powered.

    Prestonpans Community Council has already proposed all of this as well as a full development strategy, which I have had input to, to East Lothian Council. The council just need to try to understand what it has on its doorstep before they think about losing the only real major new port opportunity in south-east Scotland (and hence location closest to the ‘Low Countries’) to proposed alternatives such as a large number of greenhouses growing cabbages, which sounds more like the level of a Blackadder/Baldrick cunning plan!

  324. MaggieC says:

    Re Harassment and Complaints Committee ,

    Update from the Judicial Review page ,

    Following Committee members accessing the report on 22 December referred to in the motion detailed above, the Convener wrote to the Deputy First Minister regarding access to legal advice.

    The text of the letter from the above link ,

    Dear Mr Swinney
    c/o Clerk to the Committee Room T1.03 The Scottish Parliament Edinburgh EH99 1SP
    23 December 2020

    I am writing to inform you that the Committee has now considered the former DGODO report referred to in your letter dated 21 December and accompanying documents.
    The Clerks have highlighted to your officials which confidential elements of the report the Committee would wish to be able to refer to in public session when questioning witnesses. The Committee looks forward to receiving the paraphrased text of the redactions to inform all future evidence sessions.

    The Committee has asked me to highlight that it wishes to see the unredacted report again in the New Year in a further ‘reading room’ in part to ensure the paraphrased wordings provided by the Government encapsulates the redacted text. I appreciate that any such paraphrasing will be framed to take account of the fact that the Government continues to assert legal privilege over the text.

    The reading room and the ability to view information of relevance to the inquiry’s remit is progress. However, there are elements of the legal advice which the report does not cover, for example any counsel advice from August to the beginning of October 2018 including counsel advice on the initial petition. There are also elements of the judicial review process that the Committee understands to have been key moments, about which the report goes into very little detail. For example, details of legal advice around the 19 October 2018 when, the Committee understands from evidence, prior contact of the investigating officer with the complainers became a focus for internal and external lawyers.

    Given the Committee’s unanimous agreement that sight of the legal advice itself is required, you will be unsurprised to hear that the Committee remains determined to see further advice, in line with the terms of the motion agreed on 15 December which states:
    That the Committee considers that in order to discharge its duties, it needs to
    see the legal advice from counsel and associated minutes of meetings relating
    to the Judicial Review with LPP waived and that this needs to be published in
    the interests of transparency; agrees to continue discussions with the Scottish
    Government including to secure access to this legal advice in a reading room
    to be provided by 14 January 2021; in the interim accepts the Scottish
    Government offer to read the former DGODO’s report of 29th December 2018;
    subject to agreement that notes can be taken to refer to in questioning Scottish
    Government witnesses and that these witnesses should not refer to legal
    privilege in answering questions relating to the report; insists that the SG
    waives LPP over the document so as to enable publication of whatever
    contents the Committee deems fit.

    As such, I should be very grateful if you could confirm the Government’s position on the remainder of the motion and in particular the Government’s position on the Committee viewing the legal advice referred to in the motion by 14 January 2021.
    The Committee seeks confirmation that the Government is amenable to such a request given the terms of recent negotiations. In addition, given the restrictive timescales the Committee is working to, in order to complete its inquiry before the end of the Parliamentary session, I would be grateful for an indication as soon as is practicable as to whether viewing these documents in a reading room would be possible in mid-January as per the Committee’s motion.
    Yours sincerely
    Linda Fabiani MSP
    Convener, Committee on the Scottish Government Handling of Harassment Complaints

  325. Dunadd says:

    Good news for Perth with the Stone of Destiny returning.
    At least Mansfield will not be able to charge to see it.

  326. Hatuey says:

    “in order to complete its inquiry before the end of the Parliamentary session”

    That’ll go down well.

  327. Jack Murphy says:

    Off Topic.
    I see Phantom Power Films are airing a Beyond Brexit film tonight.
    Here’s a short Trailer:

    I’m guessing the full film will find it’s way on to Phantom Power’s YouTube site in the next few days…

  328. Sarah says:

    @ MaggieC at 12.36: many thanks for posting Linda Fabiani’s latest letter to John Swinney.

    How sad that she has to write in such terms – will Sturgeon and Swinney comply with the request to permit sight of unredacted documents in order for the committee to check that the Governments paraphrased version is correct?

    I’m not holding my breath.

  329. Stuart MacKay says:

    Jack Murphy,

    Vows are spoken
    To be broken

    That’s one awesome trailer. The folks at Phantom Power really deserve a round of applause for this one.

  330. Confused says:

    Preach! – Alf Baird; real “meat on the bones”.

    Just remember, whenever they leave/get booted, the empire likes to “take a shit on the way out”

    – if emptying the supermarket shelves only needs stopping a few trucks at carlisle, why not do it to teach those ungrateful porridge wogs a lesson …

    then the screaming headlines : INDY = empty shelves !

    and Broon and Georgie Foulkes and all the chatterati can swoon with I told you so…

  331. Breeks says:

    Dunadd says:
    23 December, 2020 at 12:37 pm

    Good news for Perth with the Stone of Destiny returning…

    What a grand occassion that would be, to reconvene the true Scottish Parliament, have them sworn in over The Stone, swearing their fealty and allegiance to the Constitutional Sovereignty of the Scottish People, and then declaring the Treaty of Union to be breached by Scotland’s unlawful subjugation and removal from Europe…

    Aye, you’re absolutely correct. I bet they’ll do SFA about it too, as usual…

  332. MaggieC says:

    Sarah @ 1.23 pm ,

    The whole thing stinks and all the evidence should be published , It’s time that they published all the legal advice and all the papers related to the inquiry . I also think that all the evidence from the criminal trial should be released as well .

    The sooner that Alex Salmond can give his evidence to the inquiry the better although the Scottish Government are doing all they can to delay that as well .

    And when this is inquiry is all over and whenever we see the final report I still think it will be a whitewash . Everyone involved in the conspiracy against Alex should lose their jobs .

    I also hope that Alex Salmond sues the lot of them including the Scottish Government, the Lord Advocate and the Police and also the women who conspired against Alex should be charged with contempt of court.

    Alex only needs to announce a crowdfunding appeal and I know that I’ll donate to it .

  333. Ronald Fraser says:

    Socrates MacSpooran

    If we can see the unadulterated bias in the english media, why can’t ANY SNP representative not see it?

    The SNP have lost the ability to stand up for Scotland and lost the ability to stand up for Scottish women.

    The SNP have just lost it.

  334. MaggieC says:

    Re The Stone of Destiny ,

    It was 70 years ago tomorrow that it was taken from Westminster Abbey Do you honestly believe that the real Stone was returned to London after it had been brought home in 1950 ? ,

    I think it was a copy that was returned to England in April 1951 .

    Ps , The Scottish/English border was closed then so nothing to stop it being closed now to stop traffic coming up from England from the high risk corona virus areas .

  335. Ronald Fraser says:

    Ronnie Anderson 8.50 am

    You called me a “Troll”.

    That is sooooo last year Mr Anderson.

    What makes you think I am a Troll.

    It seems if you call out the english for treating Scotland like some kind of forgotten back water, or, call out Sturgeon fanatics for being fake Indy supporters, then you are a so called “Troll”.

    So Mr Anderson, you are either an Englander, or a Sturgeonista, which one is it?

    You are the stranger to the site, so respect the rules when you pay us a visit from your regular haunt of the Wee Gingerbread Man’s site.

    And if you have a problem with a certain contributor, then the Rev has asked us to go through the correct channels.

    Meaning, he will not give in to mob rule, which you were hoping was going to kick off.

    You were hoping to start a lynching of an individual you don’t like.

    It diznae work like that sunshine.

    So take a bit of your own advice and ,,,,,Fuck Off.

  336. Lenny Hartley says:

    Ronald Fraser, It’s dead simple.

    You said to Ronnie Anderson “Are you one of the little helpers from the Wee Gingerbread Man’s website, sent here to “mix it”.

    Nobody is forcing you to read his posts and NOBODY is forcing you to even visit the Wings Over Scotland website.

    It seems to me like a bit of self inflicted pain to me.”

    what ignorant twat you are, Ronnie Anderson is the leading light in the Organisation of the Wings Get togethers which were regularly held a few years back, he has also knocked his pan organising the Wings stalls at all the major Marches for several years.
    So away you go back to your 77th pals and fuck off.

  337. AYRSHIRE ROB says:


    Ronald is only here for one thing.The boy is a lemon. Attention seeking little kid.BILLY No mates

    You’ll all be called “robbo” soon enough.He’s best keep cold is Ronaldo.

  338. Daisy Walker says:

    OT – someone posted a link to Holyrood audio interview with Andy Wightman last night.

    Years ago I attempted to read his book – the poor had no lawyers – I really wanted to get through it, but found it impenetrable.

    On listening to his interview I can see why. I don’t think he came out well from it. He wanted to vote for Johanna’s amendment, wrote a speech supporting the amendment, and at the last moment, changed the last paragraph and voted no… then immediately regretted it.

    His excuse was it was a busy week, they don’t live in a bubble, he had not had the time to consider all the consequences of what resigning from the Green party (which he knew would be necessary) would entail if he voted for the amendment. 12 hours after the vote he did resign.

    This is not good enough. He had done his research, and written a speech, he was well aware the victims of rape had made it a priority request for female Doctors to do the medical exam. Being prepared for the vote – its their job.

    On listening to him talk – he prevaricates, hums and haws, says one thing, and immediately back tracks from it. I got the impression of a serious lack of integrity. Got the feeling he’s the kind of nightmare that does not like to make, or be responsible, for making decisions and will spend every waking moment talking himself in and then out, then in again, on making them.

    I suspect a large part of his decision to resign came from the result of the vote.

    One part of his account was deeply misguided to say the least. He stated that the laws surrounding this, written a few years ago, used the term ‘gender’ where it was clear at that time, that gender/sex were understood then to mean much the same thing, in a way, today, they do not. For that reason he argued that since the courts intended gender and sex to mean the same thing – they would automatically attempt to apply the law with its initial intention.

    That is wrong. Sheriffs have to apply the law as it is written, not how they would like it to be. Poorly written laws, tie their hands and they are not in a legal position to change it.

    It is deeply lazy thinking – and a deep neglect of duty – for law makers, just to assume, Judges will sort it out later.

    As an aside re this issue, some people were speculating that anti social hours, and child care responsibilities (given that many rapes are reported late at night) was the reason for so few female Doctors doing this.

    It’s more likely that anti social hours, means a significant large call out fee for the Doctors, and wherever there is a large pay cheque, the boys tend to discourage the girls from getting a chance at it. Such is life.

  339. Republicofscotland says:

    It would appear that security on postal votes in the 2014 referendum were very lax indeed.

    Worryingly postal vote observers were not allowed (they usually are) to observe that ballot boxes were empty before voting stations opened their doors up to the public in the 2014 independence referendum.

    This article shows that at several stages during the 2014 Scottish independence referendum that it was possible to tamper with the ballot boxes.

  340. Famous15 says:

    Ronald Fraser

    I thought you were just my arsehole but no ,if Marks and Spencer made arseholes,you would be it.

    Now off you trot you bullying arsehole.

    Independence? What independence?


  341. Graf Midgehunter says:

    ALF BAIRD 12.18

    Lots of very interesting stuff from you for us to digest.
    I’ll read your paper this evening when I have more time.

    I used to live just round the corner from HH in Kiel, my gf came from HH so I spent some great time there. (Great music scene..!)

    “…Eastern Europe as well as Baltic ports via feeder ships.”

    That’s where the Kiel Kanal comes into its own, the amount of traffic from submarines to middle sized container ships is quite impressive.

  342. holymacmoses says:

    I find it strange that even on a ‘comments’ such as this, with all its erudition and intelligence, there are those who don’t seem to realise that they have absolute control over what they read on a screen. It doesn’t matter what other people post – unless it is profoundly offensive – and then I reckon Wings would have his say before it reached here. Simply don’t read the stuff that doesn’t interest you and concentrate on the things that do.
    Wings is extremely generous about letting people write ‘off- piste’ and as it’s his blog and his contributions are invaluable to the whole of the Independence movement and beyond. It seems very petty of folk to complain about his leniency of subject matter .

  343. It wasn`t only the Stone (Jacob`s Pillow) that Edward I pillaged from scotland

    he took cart loads of artifacts,treaties,documents,histories and ancient treasures,

    one of the reasons we know so little about Pictish or ancient Scottish history,

    what he didn`t pillage Cromwell later took from Scotland,

    `The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.`


  344. ebreah says:

    Just to add to the informative comments about the ports, in order to control trade, you have to control the seas. Drawing from Malaysian-Indonesian histories, the reason lots of maritime kingdoms were successively established and became immensely rich/powerful boiled down to one fact: the ability to choke the Straits of Malacca. The Dutch and the Brits managed to destroy this monopoly but still they cannot replicate the stranglehold over the Straits like the previous maritime kingdoms.

    This brings us to the second point, what the Brits cannot control they will destroy. As some are aware, this part of the world (Malaysia in particular for me) has a very very longstanding maritime tradition. We have always been the middle point/men of the trade between China and India. We had been doing until the consolidation of colonial rule circa 19th century. After that it was considered illegal to trade overseas unless through official channels (ie passing through colonial customs, duty and excise etc). This finally destroyed the maritime culture in Malaysia. We are bounded by seas yet our port numbers and size are pitifully small. Singapore is what it is by virtue of geography and inheriting the advantages left by the Brits. This is where I draw some similarities between Malaysian and Scotland.

    As some had pointed in the above, you must have connectivity between the hinterland and the ports. Scotland had this pre-Beeching. A long while ago, I was looking at old railway maps of Scotland and was very much surprised that Scotland had a far superior railway network in the 50s than it has now. And most ports did have a railway connection. If these lines were reestablished and integrated with airports, I fail to see why Scotland cannot prosper in trade and logistics. If the future FM/PM of Scotland has no ideas on how to develop Scotland, by just concentrating of this area alone could consume 10-20 years of continuous construction/development.

    For avoidance of doubt, there are about 20-30 ports of different sizes that can be developed between Thurso and Eyemouth alone. On the (north)east alone, you have Peterhead, Fraserburgh and Montrose lying there waiting to developed and fully utilised. The longer you wait for independence the longer these opportunities will be lost. I am particularly aggrieved by the redevelopment of Newburgh’s quay on the Ythan. For me that Newburgh’s geographic position is rather strategic being halfway between Peterhead and Aberdeen. Maybe it is not suitable as a port at all but that possibility cannot be explored unless at a huge cost.

    As a former lawyer, all I can is that the limits of devolution have been reached. Nicola is kidding herself if she thinks she still can extract something for Scotland in post Brexit devolution. I am almost sure that the UK will be returning to a unitary state form of governance. By then it will be too late.

    Nicola is a good manager but that’s about it. She is not, cannot and will not lead Scotland to independence. If I can vote in the next election, I will definitely vote for the likes of ISP on the list. They may or may not win, but my conscience will be clear.

  345. Confused says:

    get a few of these babies, tearing across the north sea
    – for fun we can add a vertical launch missile system and a railgun to them, maybe bombard alnwick castle as we pass, for the bantz

    ferries AND the basis of a scottish navy – economies of scale and 2 for 1 deals, blue sky thinking folks …

  346. Dunadd says:

    NS right to apologise for what looked like a lapse.
    It was not like she was on an all day English “Nationalist” Party outing to Ben Vorlich with Murdo and Liz.

    Did they apologise?
    Did the Royals for their 3 significant breaches?

  347. CameronB Brodie says:

    It’s a shame that I need to point out that I’m in total control of myself, so I’d ask the clowns who are debating my mental health, to stop being such a bunch of ignorant and intolerant arseholes. If you were as eager to learn as you are to other me, Scotland might not be getting shafted.

  348. Hatuey says:

    I’m not overly concerned about Sturgeon not wearing a mask.

    That’s all.

  349. BLMac says:

    We saw how Labour kept its promises when we got the Smith Commission. They flushed them straight down the kludgie.

    They had the perfect chance to strengthen their appeal to Scots who love Scotland.

    Instead they licked the arses of their Ukanian masters and sank the boot into what they thought was a mortally wounded independence movement.

    When someone is a known liar and comes along and makes you a promise, it’s wise to assume they won’t keep the promise once you given them what they want.

    It’s even wiser to assume it’s unlikely when it comes from a knighted toff busy ejecting all supporters of Labour philosophy from a Labour Party that he’s turning into the ToryLite Party.

  350. Republicofscotland says:

    Media now reporting that there’s over 5000 lorries piled up in Kent, reports of hungry drivers, low on fuel with no toilet amenities is now common. Sky news showing clashes between lorry drivers and the police. Of course the media are also saying that it will all blow over in a few days, unlikely I say.

    This is just a taste of what’s to come if a no deal is the outcome, even a low deal just as likely, will be very detrimental to Scotland’s economy.

  351. Daisy Walker says:

    ‘Republicofscotland says:
    23 December, 2020 at 4:45 pm
    Media now reporting that there’s over 5000 lorries piled up in Kent,’

    Nothing concentrates the mind more, than a potential food shortage, especially at Christmas time.

    Nothing is bringing home the chaos of Brexit / No Deal – than this current lorry shambles.

    I do hope the SNP are looking to waste no chance in highlighting it and fighting Scotland’s corner…. oh, wait.

  352. holymacmoses says:

    I understand that NS has the people of Scotland at the forefront of her mind and would not think of ‘requesting’ a referendum until Covid is by with and Brexit is sorted. I think she’s saving for gites for the whole family once the threat of independence has gone away.

  353. Tannadice Boy says:

    O/T I can’t believe as a man I have to post in defence of the rights of women again. No not that issue something else. In England babies under the age of 1 are allowed to form a support bubble with Grandparents. Especially important for first time mums who need the support and knowledge of their own mums. Petitions are being raised in Scotland. In England it has been allowed since December 2nd. Obvious no brainer. Some NHS services can’t be delivered over a zoom call. Or indeed a phone call. Sometimes grannies know best apparently when dealing with intimate first mum problems. Breast feeding problems n stuff I am not qualified to comment on. I would hand over to my wife but she doesn’t do social media. Come on Nicola get this sorted. Our first mums need support. Follow the same science. Allow the same relaxation as in England.

  354. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Haud oan a meenit – Margaret Ferrier made a genuine mistake, and got kicked out of the SNP.

    Nicola Sturgeon made a mistake – but says sorry and gets to carry on regardless.

    Not comparing the two mistakes – just saying.

  355. Effijy says:

    LBC Radio- Andrew Castle blames Macron for the Lorry Backlog at Dover?

    Perhaps if Brexit hadn’t been financed by UK Bankers and Billionaires?
    Perhaps if the truth was told about the £350 Million per week to the NHS?
    Possibly the UK ability to finalise a deal inside a period of years?

    Not to worry though with thousands of people stranded there, the council
    has closed the only toilets? Remember how important it is to wash your hands?
    The Drivers are running out of food and money, who is to help them?

    If a Driver tests positive, who will drive his cargo to a safe location?
    Where do they take the driver to isolate?
    Would you have him in your B & B?

    On a positive note, you won’t need Sat Nav to find Dover
    You will be able to smell it from Carlisle.

    Don’t envy local shops handling cash from truck drivers who
    May have Covid, who’s Toilets are the grass verge and hand sanitation
    is a wipe on week old jeans.

    I fully expect the Tories to measure up and give Michelle Moan the rights
    To pay as you go toilets with sheets of toilet paper only 1 Euro per sheet,
    5 Euros per Shit.

    And Scottish Unionists fight to keep these clowns having complete control
    over us?

  356. twathater says:

    Ronald Fraser why do you have to be so obnoxious and vile when posting comments about other posters , we ALL have a right to our opinions and Stuart has repeated endlessly that if you have a problem with someone don’t engage , report.

    I am NOT breaking his rules but your endless accusations about other posters is tiresome and time wasting , I enjoy different opinions some I agree with some not but I don’t go into a rant or abuse the poster , I have been on this site for years as has Ronnie Anderson and MANY other posters , because Ronnie or anyone else highlights the fact that CamB is flooding the site with screeds of copy and paste articles which I personally don’t read or access doesn’t mean that he is NOT concerned at the impact it is having on people accessing the articles or even on CamB himself

    So Ronald be more considerate and less obnoxious when posting opposing views and people might even listen to your points of view
    And just for your information I hate Sturgeon and the mess she is making of independence

  357. twathater says:

    @ Maggie C thanks for your links again Maggie it appears that Swinney and the SG are intent on trying to run the clock down on disclosing the legal papers , it will be Jan 14th 2021 before they even get a response and STILL it will be dribs and drabs and MORE redactions

    I said before if this committee had ANY integrity they would hold a press conference and resign en masse STATING the deliberate withholding of information imperative to their investigation to reach a conclusion , then see what that would produce , even the THREAT of that action the MSM would crucify Swinney and the SG which IMO would expose Sturgeon and Evans

  358. Ottomanboi says:

    You may never have heard of the Greek philosopher Kornelios Kastoriadis.$FILE/epoche_2010_0015_0001_0007_0018.pdf
    But you will recognise the symptoms of the societal malaise.

  359. Dan says:

    Alf might be able to explain a query from Jimmy Ross on this tweet thread.

    Obviously the logistics, time tabling, and handling capabilities of shipping / port activities is pretty involved stuff. But does the term “any port in a storm” have any validity at all to the situation we find oursleves in?
    I’ve worked on fairly big boats / ships, and when the weather got up we had to make unplanned for runs to the safety of the nearest harbour where we could sit out the storm.
    Are we not in unprecedented times so could look at “emergency measures” and altering normal practice from previous set routines?

    Will tack this link on. Nowt to do with ports other than the tide is quickly ebbing away before the ship sails / lifeboat launched, leaving us stranded.
    SOS – Save Oor Scotland!

  360. Ingwe says:

    Sturgeon’s ‘mea culpa’ over her mask faux pas, broadcast on the BBC 6oclosck news, claims that she’s “kicking herself harder than any of her critics could”. I think we should press her to put this to the test.

  361. Dan says:

    Humans are meant to be adaptable. I’d be receptive to the idea of ditching the standard festive season turkey and replacing it with a fresh locally sourced Crimbo Crustacean Lobster rather than them lying rotting in a lorry somewhere doon sooth.


  362. robertknight says:

    ‘Roast Troll’ for Christmas Dinner anyone?

  363. crazycat says:

    @ Daisy Walker at 2.33

    I agree with everything you say in that post; I borrowed AW’s book from the library and had to renew it at least twice. I did read it all, eventually, because I thought it was important, but I found it extremely turgid and had to re-read bits every time I picked it up again, having not remembered the last bits from the previous occasion.

    I was thinking about the book last night; I know several people who have read it and they divide neatly into great enthusiasts (all men) and those who found it virtually unreadable (all women). The sample size is not large enough for that difference to be statistically meaningful, but it is intriguing.

    I also attended an event at the Edinburgh Radical Book Fair with one of the enthusiasts for the book, where AW was one of the speakers. My friend and I agreed this time – he was awful!

    You’re right, I suspect, that he expected to be on the winning side, in which case he would have had to do nothing. Presumably with electronic voting, unlike traipsing through Westminster lobbies, MSPs cannot see each other’s votes until it’s too late to go with the crowd.

  364. Derek says:

    @Confused says:
    23 December, 2020 at 4:04 pm

    “…maybe bombard alnwick castle as we pass, for the bantz…”

    Nooo! Lovely gardens! And the poison one…

  365. ronnie anderson says:

    Swally the tablets Cameron , your post at 4.22 just shows your not in control how you equate my ability to learn, your mental state & Scotland getting shafted I cant comprehend ( concentrate on taking your meds and leave the whacky baccy alone .

    Those that encourage you to keep posting are no friends of WoS since i had taken a step back i have been a admin on a few Yes Scotland sites & i wouldn’t allow those Disrupters to gain control of our pages .

    And Yes Camoran I learn something ( Relevant & on Topic ) every day from morning noon & night .

  366. Robert graham says:

    Re Trucks in Kent

    Not shown on the BBC but RT has done a flyover showing the extent of the chaotic scenes on the side roads in Kent the ones not covered by the MSM
    If they feel they need to cover up way their government is handling this it makes you wonder what else is not being commented on and being suppressed
    The disused RAF airfield used as a truck park used to have a test and trace facility but that was removed 3 weeks ago ,reason surplus to requirements ,aye dib dib dib be prepared eh the Tory way just shows how much a expensive education comes in handy and proves England’s a world leader in total bloody fk ups ,
    A Government minister this morning swearing blind the drivers had adequate washing facilities and food was available , I guess that’s why some divers had to show their appreciation by having a go at the police , and the blows landed were realyreally friendly and any blood was just surplus tomato sauce
    Believe anything this Government says and your half way to the Loony bin I wouldn’t trust any of them to cut my grass

  367. Effijy says:

    News suggesting the Brexit deal is done.
    Boris blinked realising his bluff has run out of time.
    Again Scotland’s Fish handed to the EU in exchange for
    English concessions.

    Arise Sir Bertie Armstrong who has sold out all the Fishermen
    he promised that this wouldn’t happen as Gove made one of those
    Vows for mugs who never learn.

    Thou shall have a Scottish Fishy on an English Dishy
    when the Bojo sings!

    Wonder if Margaret Ferrier with nothing to lose would be brave enough to
    nail the lying corrupt bastards in Westminster about refusing Scotland’s democratic
    rights, our Holyrood devolved powers and our fish joining our oil in the pockets of Tory rich.
    I’d vote for her if she did.

    Don’t suppose anyone else will fight back in parliament.

  368. cynicalHighlander says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    The answer is in Animal Farm.

  369. Alf Baird says:

    ebreah @ 3.44

    Funny you should mention Malaysia as there are parallels with Scotland’s situation. After its independence Malaysia and Singapore went their separate ways. Over time, Malaysia became concerned that its trade was still over-dependent on the port of Singapore. So the government established its own major new ports, including Port Klang. Within the last 20 years or so Malaysia has developed a new transhipment port and free zone at Port Tanjung Pelepas on Strait of Johore to rival Singapore.

    Dan @ 6.13

    The EU logistics access problems due to Brexit were signaled to the SNP SG a couple of years ago. New advanced ferry gateway port options such as Cockenzie have been presented to them. A draft Scottish Maritime Policy was written for them. The SNP SG has chosen to ignore all this and to make no trade/logistics preparations. What is also remarkable is that here we have a nationalist government that supposedly wants Scotland to be an independent state, yet is content for Scotland’s people and economy to be constrained and potentially held hostage by having to depend on ports in an increasingly hostile neighbouring country. The rather obvious conclusion is that the SNP elite are simply not planning for an independent Scottish state.

  370. Sarah says:

    @ MaggieC at 1.55: agreed and I too would donate to an Alex Salmond fundraiser. However I fear that Alex is too decent to do anything that might affect the chance of independence. He is mistaken though to think that he would impede it given the current SNP controllers have no intention of doing anything anytime soon.

    It really is down to the MSPs – if one or two even [e.g. Linda Fabiani] threatened to resign now if NS doesn’t step aside and release documents to the inquiry, that would make the difference. At the moment they are all complicit. I don’t see what is stopping the dozen or so who aren’t standing in May – they must lack principles.

  371. Daisy Walker says:

    @ Crazycat,

    Your comment is very interesting.

    A couple of things I’ve observed with my male colleagues – and I’ve been very appreciative of their efforts, so its not a criticism – in general I’ve found they’ve a natural propensity for statistics (which bore me rigid) (football scores, engine capacities, pound per square inch, with go faster horse power stripey type…. stuff) and they grasp the structural shape of things very well, in a way my brain just does not compute.

    I go for the, ‘that’s no right’ gut instinct and to hell with the stats attitude. I also go for the how can I make this work attitude, while most of the managers I’ve worked for have a totally different agenda… backed up with … statistics. So, fair chance I’m biased, or they are.

    AW’s speech is littered with reference to Article blah subsection y…. Blah, blah as amended by subsection Mheh.

    Like attempting to read legal text, it is impenetrable. But, if you have a brain that is wired to light up at statistics… perhaps it might fall on more understanding ground.

    The work AW did regarding his book is obviously of merit. Could well be he has a good heart. Maybe be a good thing if he starts to have the courage of his convictions early doors from now on.

  372. Ronald Fraser says:


    You another Sturgeonista who wants to.have Ronnie Anderson’s babies???

    Another ,,, Ginger Dugger.

    Wings is riddled with them.

  373. Pete Barton says:

    There’s a very angry man on here disrupting the blog.

    As Rolf Harris would say..

    “Can you tell what it is yet?”

  374. Pete Barton says:

    @Daisy Walker:

    Perfectly put point re man’s obsessional nature on the dimensions.

    You did see the scene in Gregory’s girl where they’re lying on the grass, she’s talking about this very subject when along comes his mate and starts talking about lenses, or something.

    And they just look at each other..

    Let’s celebrate diversity.

    My uncle had my aunt proofread his book and help form his brilliantly technical mind into a rounded easy read tale of Highland land and people.

    I think Andy should have asked a lady friend to ’round off’ and enrich the contents.

    Add imagination.

  375. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah wee Scottish cheery uppy

  376. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I would add my name to the post at 5.05am . Cameron B Brodie is on medication for mental health issues & has been for years .

    I had a long discussion with him re Mega Cisterna Magna that left him taking medication the rest of his life , he has no Law Degree’s ( trained as a Town Planner in Dundee ).”

    I said before that I was absolutely done with repeating myself about personal-attack shit like this. I have no idea what part of that people failed to understand. Banned.

  377. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    Wind your neck in Ronnie, I’m on my meds and only doing what I’m trained to do in support of democracy.

  378. Hatuey says:

    Ronnie Anderson: “ Those that encourage you to keep posting are no friends of WoS since i had taken a step back i have been a admin on a few Yes Scotland sites & i wouldn’t allow those Disrupters to gain control of our pages .”

    Hahahahaha. My God. Where do you start?

    Ronnie, try two steps back. Seriously, you’re losing the plot.

  379. CameronB Brodie says:

    Yes I’m a geek, but I’m a geek who is trained in strengthening democracy and improving social well-being. I’m not expecting folk to engage with stuff at a level of theoretical understanding. I’m simply trying to draw folks attention to the nature of our politics, which quite simply defies cognition. 😉

    Beyond intuition and instinct blindness:
    toward an evolutionarily rigorous cognitive

  380. Derek says:

    Pete Barton says:
    23 December, 2020 at 7:38 pm
    @Daisy Walker:

    Perfectly put point re man’s obsessional nature on the dimensions.

    You did see the scene in Gregory’s girl where they’re lying on the grass, she’s talking about this very subject when along comes his mate and starts talking about lenses, or something.

    And they just look at each other..

    Photographic exposure; “How many elephants are you going to give it?” or something like. I know the guy who was in the penguin suit…

  381. Polly says:

    @ holymacmoses says:
    23 December, 2020 at 3:22 pm

    Very well said. I completely agree.

  382. Tannadice Boy says:

    @CameronB Brodie
    Now and again perhaps not enough I read your links. There was one I was interested in about Gender woo woo but it was behind a paywall. The Absract was inviting but I am not prepared to give out my details to an unknown source. 2 97 which is nothing to me. But the principle. I have read thousands of academic papers and written many myself. No paywalls please Cam B.

  383. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tannadice Boy
    I’ll try to do better. 😉

    Motivation and Justification: A Dual-Process
    Model of Culture in Action

    “This article presents a new model of culture in action. Although most sociologists who study culture emphasize its role in post hoc sense making, sociologists of religion and social psychologists tend to focus on the role beliefs play in motivation.

    The dual-process model integrates justificatory and motivational approaches by distinguishing between “discursive” and “practical” modes of culture and cognition.

    The author uses panel data from the National Study of Youth and Religion to illustrate the model’s usefulness. Consistent with its predictions, he finds that though respondents cannot articulate clear principles of moral judgment, their choice from a list of moral-cultural scripts strongly predicts later behavior.”

  384. John Main says:

    Healthy woman has a brief face-to-face chat with three other healthy women.

    I have simplified the NS “story” as I understand it so that we can all see more clearly if it is newsworthy at all. It’s not.

    I would not usually give NS the time of day, but when this kind of pathetic criticism of anybody starts to become the norm, I feel the need to provide some sanity in her defense.

  385. Dan says:

    Alf Baird says:
    23 December, 2020 at 7:13 pm

    The EU logistics access problems due to Brexit were signaled to the SNP SG a couple of years ago. New advanced ferry gateway port options such as Cockenzie have been presented to them. A draft Scottish Maritime Policy was written for them. The SNP SG has chosen to ignore all this and to make no trade/logistics preparations. What is also remarkable is that here we have a nationalist government that supposedly wants Scotland to be an independent state, yet is content for Scotland’s people and economy to be constrained and potentially held hostage by having to depend on ports in an increasingly hostile neighbouring country. The rather obvious conclusion is that the SNP elite are simply not planning for an independent Scottish state.

    Alf, from your btl input is seems like numerous submissions have been ignored by the Scottish Government Administration on potential port / shipping infrastructure developments.
    Are you aware if there were other individuals or organisations also making submissions?

    The failure to develop port / shipping capabilities in Scotland would suit certain parties for various reasons.
    One wonders if suitably worded FOI requests might shed any light on such matters.

    As and aside for history: As bairns my mate and I cycled from Edinburgh to Cockenzie power station to fish for the rumoured mullet that apparently used to frequent the warm tail races from the cooling system. Rumoured mullet is what they were to us as we caught heehaw…

    I had noticed around a year ago that for some unusual reasons there were temporary signs on the A1 road near Torness pointing out maritime survey work was being carried out.
    Thought it weird as unlikely a survey ship in the sea was ever going to be traffic hazard on the A1.

  386. Polly says:

    Many thanks to Alf Baird and everyone else chipping in with info and questions on the topic of our lack of ports. I was aware of some of the issues but didn’t realise the situation was so very bad, and players of note so very hostile. It’s given me the impetus to find out more and keep up to date with the subject in future.

    @ John Main

    ‘I would not usually give NS the time of day, but when this kind of pathetic criticism of anybody starts to become the norm, I feel the need to provide some sanity in her defense.’

    Sturgeon said when Calderwood resigned that it wasn’t a question of ‘one rule for her and one for everyone else’ and the reason Calderwood resigned was ‘I was not prepared to have the vital public health message undermined’. Since masks wearing is also in their public health messaging doesn’t that contradict her statements above and prove her a hypocrite?

    Calderwood herself said in resignation ‘People across Scotland know what they need to do to reduce the spread of this virus and that means they must have complete trust in those who give them advice”.’

    Nicola Sturgeon at the time said similar so it is very relevant that today Nicola Sturgeon is not saying the same thing about herself.

  387. Alf Baird says:

    Dan @ 10.11

    The reality is that the Forth, which is arguably Scotland’s most strategic access point for European trade, does not provide bespoke or adequate port facilities or in the most optimal location able to accommodate the larger modern passenger/freight ferries or cruise ships in operation today. So if we want such vessels to call and to use an advanced seaport as an engine of growth for trade and the economy then we need to provide the right infrastructure, at a competitive price.

    At the moment Scotland remains the only peripheral maritime country in the North Sea Region which does not have a passenger/freight ferry service to the continent. The EU ‘Motorways of the Sea’ policy, which I and others helped the Commission develop, is intended to shift freight from road to sea, however the UK-SG Gov has ignored these policy levers also. Moving freight from road to sea has been an EU policy for 30+ years and member states and connecting states are given the power to support such initiatives in terms of providing for maritime infrastructure investments (i.e. terminals and vessel operating costs).

    Scotland also remains perhaps the only peripheral maritime country in Europe which does not have any maritime policy or a budget set aside for it. This is a policy void based either on ignorance or inertia, maybe both.

    Scotland’s policy makers, who ignore ports and hence ignore trade, need to consider that:

    “…in the beginning the harbour made the trade; but soon the trade began to make the harbours.” (Sargent)


    “..every European seaport is the economic engine for its whole region.” (Mayor Voscherau, Hanseatic port-city of Hamburg)

  388. Dan says:

    I appreciate the response Alf.
    Something really stinks with all this suppression of development of our infrastructure.
    Scotland is a net exporter, so if the various facilities had been developed so these goods could have been shipped from our ports then we would have had the economic benefits of the investment in each area with the workers building the facilities, and related jobs once up and running.
    As it is now most of the goods are just hauled down south to be exported from English ports thus giving them the economic benefits.
    Treaty of Union breached yet again as no constituency part of the UK is meant to have an economic advantage over another.
    Same as it has ever been over the 300 year Union which has allowed the Kingdom of England’s population to grow from approximately 5 times that of the Kingdom of Scotland in 1700, to the present 10 times it is now.

    Is the seeming lack of progress in getting Scotland to a level of being capable of being in control of, and managing our assets and resources, simply because so many of our politicians are careerists or legals that lack practical nouse, so they simply cannot grasp or envisage the structures and engineering requirements to be developed to let us stand on our own two feet.
    When you look at so many “Indy” politicians they seem overly invested in far less important stuff in the scheme of things.

  389. Alf Baird says:

    Dan @ 3.06
    Yes, it does seem to be the case that few Scottish politicians seem to have much if any business background, most seem to be ex public sector and 3rd sector or simply career politicians, hence very few from industry. This perhaps explains why government is so poor at developing the economy which is primarily dependent on the business sector, not the public sector.

    As for the officials, civil servants in the UK tend to be ‘generalists’ and this is somehow seen as a strength, the assumption being that UK civil servants are ‘the best’ and can simply turn their hand to any policy area they happen to be assigned, so a degree of British exceptionalism exists. This contrasts with the EU where, in many of the collaborative EU maritime research projects I worked on, the civil servants dealing specifically with ports/shipping/logistics policy matters in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Spain, Portugal and Italy often had to have a Masters degree or even a PhD in the subject area. This tended to give officials advising Ministers in other EU countries rather more in the way of expert insight in the field.

    By contrast, UK civil servants running different policy areas in Scotland do seem to be lacking in many respects, and it is maybe no coincidence that almost all of Holyrood committee enquiries into major policy fiasco’s (e.g. transport, ferries, health, education, ‘harassment’, cost of Holyrood, trams etc etc) are to do with civil service errors, incompetence and worse. In the case of ports/shipping policy matters, it is also my experience that whilst some politicians in Scotland might wish to do more they are often constrained by their civil servants who, following the prevailing Whitehall policy approach, do not wish to intervene in ‘the ports market’ – a market which has already been highly distorted in numerous ways by UK Governments, including the setting up of private port estuarial monopolies on Forth, Clyde and Tay.

  390. John Main says:

    @ Polly

    Thank you for your response.

    TBH, it’s been a long, eventful year and I had forgotten about Ms Calderwood.

    I thought at the time that she should have stayed and that NS should have backed her in staying, so I think I have been consistent. Bottom line for me was that I felt safer with a person of her competence in place. I can’t understand why anybody would wish to sack committed, competent professionals over trivial matters.

    Now that the publicity searchlight has moved on, I hope she has been rehabilitated so that her talents are once more being quietly put to good use.

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