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And twirling, always twirling

Posted on September 07, 2016 by

In your media today:

twirling4

twirling6

Oh, right. One of THOSE days.

twirling5

twirling3

twirling1

twirling2

twirling7

So just to recap: the draft bill for a second referendum has – in the space of a single 48-word sentence in a 4,600-word speech – been edged towards, backed away from, shelved, threatened, lined up, put on the back burner and consulted on.

That’s obviously a little bit confusing, so let’s just see if we can clear up what really happened. The paragraph below comprises the entire reference to a possible second independence referendum in yesterday’s speech to the Parliament by the FM:

“However, to ensure that all options are open to us, this Programme for Government makes clear that we will consult on a draft Referendum Bill, so that it is ready for immediate introduction if we conclude that independence is the best or only way to protect Scotland’s interests.”

And this is what she said on the subject in June:

“Lastly, let me address the issue of a second independence referendum.

The manifesto that the SNP was elected on last month said this:

“The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum … if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out the EU against our will.”

Scotland does now face that prospect – it is a significant and material change in circumstances – and it is therefore a statement of the obvious that the option of a second referendum must be on the table. And it is on the table.

Clearly, though, there are a lot of discussions to be had before final decisions are taken.

It would not be right to rush to judgment ahead of discussions on how Scotland’s result will be responded to by the EU.

However, when the Article 50 process is triggered in three months’ time, the UK will be on a two-year path to the EU exit door.

If Parliament judges that a second referendum is the best or only way to protect our place in Europe, it must have the option to hold one within that timescale.

That means we must act now to protect that position. I can therefore confirm today that in order to protect that position we will begin to prepare the legislation that would be required to enable a new independence referendum to take place if and when Parliament so decides.

(Our emphases both times.)

The policy in June was “we’ll consult on a draft referendum bill that can be introduced immediately if we judge it the best or only way to protect Scotland’s interests”.

But by September that position had been radically altered to “we’ll consult on a draft referendum bill that can be introduced immediately if we judge it the best or only way to protect Scotland’s interests”.

Or as Severin Carrell as the Guardian put it:

twirling8

Now, we admit “STURGEON KEEPS PLANS ABSOLUTELY LITERALLY EXACTLY THE SAME AS THEY WERE THREE MONTHS AGO” is quite a dull story. But we’re not sure that’s much of an excuse for the Guardian feeding its readers a pack of lies.

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      Words Matter – soccer doc's blog

    276 to “And twirling, always twirling”

    1. theMadMurph says:

      oh well, here we go again!

    2. R-type Grunt says:

      I hope the Press aren’t indicative of a wider phenomenon in Scotland where 2+2 does not necessarily equal 4. Logic & joined-up thinking seem to have left the building. What’s truly worrying is that Unionists probably know they’re being fed a lie but as long as the lie backs up what they’d like to see they’re perfectly happy. It’s as if Natural Selection has stopped.

    3. Macart says:

      Just posted this on the last thread:

      Here’s the thing about establishment politicians and their media.

      They haven’t earned the right to be listened to in a long time.

      When they stop lying to the public or manipulating them for personal and electoral gain, they’ll get a hearing. When they hold up their hands and own responsibility for their failures, instead of scapgoating and alienating the public they’ll get a hearing. When they stop deliberately fomenting needless division and hatred among their own population for short term political gain, they’ll get a hearing.

      When their politicians deliver on their pledges made to the Scottish electorate they’ll get a hearing. In short, when they stop deliberately visiting harm upon their own electorate is the benchmark.

      But a hearing is all they’ll have earned.

      Until that time, they have nothing to say I want to hear.

      Seems more apt here somehow.

    4. Capella says:

      I’m astonished, that the Guardian, the Times, STV and the Express speak with one voice, and get it wrong. How can such top notch journalists be so mendacious? Are they just regurgitating Tory Party Press releases?

    5. Lollysmum says:

      It would seem that I’ve missed absolutely nothing in the last couple of months whilst I’ve been busy retiring from work, finding a house & moving from England to the borders, taking grandson on holiday etc etc.

      It doesn’t get any better.Still dross being produced by 2nd & 3rd rate presstitutes who couldn’t write the truth if their lives depended on it.

      They can all go to the wall as far as I’m concerned.

    6. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      So the Headline is still always a lie.

      Thanks for the update 🙂

    7. Bob Mack says:

      Ms Sturgeon has always made it clear that Indy 2 would be the only option if there were major material changes in circumstances. She remains true to that view.
      As far as I am aware article 50 has not yet been implemented to precipitate that material change.
      The same is happening within businesses who continue to ply their trade within the EU and who will only change once we make BREXIT official. This seems to be lulling the media into a sense that Brexit may not be so bad and with that,the English public who tend to take their cue from the media.

      They need to remember we are very near a considerable change.It will not remain this way for long, after Brexit is official. Ms Sturgeon is awaiting that very thing.

    8. One_Scot says:

      It just goes to show that the Yoon media can write anything that suits their political agenda, irrespective of the actual facts.

      The real problem is that unless all Independence supporting voters in Scotland are made aware of this, the SNP will always be on the back foot.

    9. sinky says:

      The 92 page government plan for Scotland mentions independence four times and devotes a couple of paragraphs to this issue.

      If that’s not concentrating on the day job, I don’t know what is.

      http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00505210.pdf

      Time yoons compared health, education, nursery care and social work in Scotland with Tory England or Labour Wales to see how fortunate they are to live in a country where the government does care… despite ongoing Westminster cuts.

    10. Smallaxe says:

      HEAR ME NOW:I AND I SAY!

      Emancipate yourself from mental slavery
      None but our self can free our minds
      Have no fear for atomic energy
      ‘Cause none of them can stop the time
      How long shall they kill our prophets
      While we stand aside and look?
      Some say it’s just a part of it
      We’ve got to fulfill de book
      Won’t you help to sing
      These songs of freedom?

      Peace,Love and Truth

    11. Scott says:

      Rev I have not counted the times you have said papers and a person have lied I wonder if any of them have threatened you with court action or do they know they would get stuffed by you.
      I see Tory Neil back on our screens again I wonder when he will start attacking the SNP again.All a bunch of Wankers.

    12. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Posted this on the last thread but seems apt re standard of misreporting,/out right propaganda in Scotland at the moment.

      MSM/BBC etc. don’t care if what is churned out is untrue, ambiguous or just denial by omission.

      These are the points which will be played on a loop and repeatedly printed in headlines from now until May 2017 in the hope it is absorbed into the public’s conciousness and reflected at the local elections.

      They will repeat verbatim that there is “No appetite for second ‘divisive, argument of the past’ IndyRef2 when the SNP should be concentrating on the day job.

      There will be no accurate opinion poll to demonstrate this ‘lack of appetite’.

      They will state that the Police, Fire, SNHS, Education, Infrastructure failing while poverty and inequality are rising all under 10 years of SNP governance.

      There will be no mention of Westminster’s austerity agenda removing Billions via Barnet consequential reductions.

      There will be no comparison with Police, Fire, NHS, Education, failing Infrastructure, poverty or inequality in rUK.

      Councils like Aberdeen City and Glasgow require this narrative to be pushed hard (don’t blame us it is all the fault of the SNP at Holyrood) if they are to hold on to their places at the trough by their fingernails.

      The MSM/BBC/C4, the dead tree press and the likes of UKOKaye will be only too happy to oblige in pushing this narrative.

    13. Luigi says:

      The fact that the yoon press are all over the place on this gives the game away:

      They don’t have a feckin clue!

      Wouldn’t they like to know, but Nicola is keeping her cards close and her options open for now. She obviously has a plan A, B and C, and is quietly but purposefully working away to Scottish independence. It’s coming, folks! Not tomorrow, not even next year, but it’s coming. The angry yoons are in a slow death vortex, and they now it. Keep em guessing, Nicola!

      PS: The thing about vortices, is that they speed up near the bottom. When the yoons’ end finally comes, things will unravel fast, and it could be over quite quickly. 🙂

    14. Sandy says:

      What Macart said.

      Also, Nicola Sturgeon is a trained lawyer. Her communication is always clear and unambiguous. It says more about the press than her that they can twist her straightforward words into so many ‘interpretations’.

    15. Chic McGregor says:

      SNP two legs – BAD
      SNP four legs – BAD

    16. Yerkitbreeks says:

      I’m a Guardian reader and fortunately don’t think Carrell has much of a following

    17. Dr Jim says:

      It really does’nt matter what the FM says or does though does it the Yoons have been fighting the “Threat” of a next referendum since the day after the last one

      If she declared tomorrow it was off the table they’d accuse her of lying and say she was still obsessing about it in her mind

      They’re just one step ahead of us because of their psychic abilities and political nouse

      If we lose this one hell mend them when the Tories do what they do all over Scotland with nobody to stop them

      TTIP here we come! God Bless America

    18. Smallaxe says:

      Chick McGregor:

      Did you get my post,on last thread!

      Peace Always

    19. Proud Cybernat says:

      Thanks Rev. pmsl.

      The colonial media in this country have to understand that JUST PRINTING SOMETHING IN REALLY BIG LETTERS ON THEIR FRONT PAGES WON’T MAKE IT SO.

    20. Mosstrooper says:

      Damn that Nicola Sturgeon, she just will not say what we Unionists want to hear. Oh well, we’ll just print what we think she should have said as if she had said it. Serves her right for being so competent.

    21. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Smallaxe,

      Yes, this is one view of the whole thing that I’ve only latterly come to appreciate. It is indeed a liberation struggle, and one that requires self-emancipation still for many Scots.

      “Mental slavery” is spot-on.

    22. msean says:

      The First Minister is doing the right thing here,still has on going discussions happening but that doesn’t mean she cannot prepare for every eventualility. It’s called having a plan,something the Westminster government could learn from.

    23. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      I’m really enjoying ripping the pish on the comments section.

    24. Smallaxe says:

      Robert J.Sutherland:

      DONT LET THEM FOOL YA OR EVEN TRY TO SCHOOL Ya!

      Peace,Love and Freedom of Mind

    25. Stoker says:

      The Dead Tree Rags can and do print whatever guff they like but the BBC masquerades as a neutral and unbiased broadcaster. We, however, all know the reality but there are many many more out there who are utterly unaware of what’s truly going on.

      Please help educate the masses and expose the BBC:
      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

    26. Scott Borthwick says:

      I have to say, natural propensity towards lying aside, Severin’s approach makes no sense. He’s maybe trying to feed into the ‘SNP busted flush’ narrative, but surely he runs the risk of sending the Unionists back to sleep rather than riling them up in preparation for a short Indyref2 campaign. I’d have thought he’d want then on their toes.

      Ah well, never interrupt your enemy when he’s making a mistake, etc.

      Many thanks for another excellent article, Rev.

    27. desimond says:

      Same as it ever was…same as it ever was!

      or more direct:

      Haters gotta hate!

      That’s enough song link responses from me for today!

    28. Can I just mention this again. I love doing this. Severin Carrell owes me fifteen quid. He bounced a cheque on me for B&B he had at our hotel when he was down checking some Holy Loch story. I’ve still got the cheque.It was presented twice and even sent to the Scotsman that he was writing for a the time. They just sent it back. Scotsman must have been bust even then.

    29. galamcennalath says:

      The Yoons are terrified of IndyRef2. It will be called when circumstances make a Yes win most likely. Clearly all tied to the way Brexit evolves. The Yoons will be well aware of this and not quite sure how to attack it. Thus the MSM mess.

      It looks like the SNP/SG will call it under a banner of “we were forced to do this because there was no other option”. The ground is being prepared for that “no other option”.

      This would be a strong argument justifying the overruling of the 2014 No result.

      Not just MSM. Yoons in Holyrood think of little else than IndyRef2. I posted this link on the last thread. Brilliantly done ….

      https://mobile.twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/773195414656913408/video/1

    30. Smallaxe says:

      Who wants yesterdays papers
      Nobody in the world
      After this time i finally learned
      After the pain and hurt
      After all this what have i achieved
      I’ve realized it’s time to leave
      The Union.

      Peace,Love and Eye’s wide Open

    31. call me dave says:

      I heard on radio shortbread the ‘tail end’ of Nostradamus McTernan (no pun intended) and then Maggie ‘I’m just a wee wifie frae Scotland’ on the Sturgeon speech. Truly appalling stuff on her outlook on oil and how glad she was we had dodged a bullet.

      They seem to forget that it’s Scotland’s oil but taken by Westminster to spend as it wishes. We get our pocket money!

      They get to hand out the licences and are set to have another look at West coast oil just to be sure they have first go at it.

      95% of UK oil is in Scotland and whatever the price, it is better that it benefits an Independent Scottish exchequer.

      PS:
      The Spectator:

      https://archive.is/aS0dM

    32. Greannach says:

      Does anyone remember when some people used to buy the Guardian for news?

    33. Chic McGregor says:

      smallaxe. Yep. After the rain there is a rainbow.

    34. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      Don’t know if the Rev intends to go to the blog awards night,

      but if he does, he is going to be keeping some strange company

      who will all be asking him how he keeps going without advertising.

      http://archive.is/oU3WQ

      Say hello to Unmumsy Mum for me, Rev!

    35. harry mcaye says:

      I’m not sure about this sticker business. It’s maybe more likely to annoy folk if they see stickers everywhere. There are still some Yes stickers up locally, they are probably very difficult to remove and the folk that put them up won’t be volunteering to take them down. Normally I am happy to contribute to these crowdfunders and while I wouldn’t mind seeing a few discreet stickers, my favourite would be the Misreporting Scotland one, I worry it would get out of hand and be counter productive.

    36. Clootie says:

      …chip paper chatter once again!

      Any journalists out there?
      I don’t mean a job title, I mean a passion for the truth!

      If we cannot have the truth what about honesty. E.g. The Daily Record could resume it’s old title of North British Mail

    37. Smallaxe says:

      Chic McGregor:

      Take a little time
      Look at the butterflies
      Colours
      Listen to the birds
      That were sent
      To sing for you and me.

      Peace,Love and Rainbow coloured Butterflies

    38. mumsyhugs says:

      Havn’t read a ‘news’ headline from from BUM sources in yonks – I come here and get the truth!

    39. call me dave says:

      Still no sign of the SNHS A&E latest figures from July on Auntie’s website. But found this in twitter land. Here goes! 🙂

      https://twitter.com/wingsscotland?lang=en-gb

    40. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says:

      “If we lose this one hell mend them when the Tories do what they do all over Scotland with nobody to stop them

      TTIP here we come! God Bless America”

      Exactly! But what pisses me off is there were Scots fools who voted Leave because they associated TTIPs with the EU. Trade agreements are good, as long as you protect your own jobs and services from foreign preditors.

      Most EU members wished to moderate any agreement, while the UK Tories wanted to push TTIPs to the neocon extreme. When they leave the EU they will bend over backwards to give the US what it wants, it will be TTIPs on steroids!

      So any Yes folks who voted Leave because you thought UKOK would be preferable to the EU, for heaven’s sakes, open your eyes!

    41. call me dave says:

      Ah well the vagaries of twitter. Last try. 🙁

      https://twitter.com/MeanwhileScotia/status/773212115779915776?lang=en-gb

    42. Scott says:

      Not a Corbyn fan but Daily Politics really like to put the boot into him while the viewers comments were mentioned making fun of Corbyn someone laughed I wonder who Brillo maybe.

    43. ScotsRenewables says:

      I love reading Wings’ comments every day but . . . it is a bit of a closed bubble, albeit a big vibrant bubble. So as some of you will have noticed I have started posting again and apologise if I am getting a bit shouty but . . .

      We need:

      a) Better grassroots outreach and organisation
      IndyApp appeal now at 87%
      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-nyr-indy-app-appeal–2
      Keep contributing – less than 24 hours to go

      b) A counter to the headlines – WHERE ARE THE BILLBOARDS STU ? I am sure many of us would be happy to fund these.

      c) Demonstrable numbers – bigger, more regular marches. Everyone getting off their asses to march and demonstrate, numbers in the tens of thousands, so even the EBC can’t ignore them. If you are an SNP member try to motivate your local SNP branch members to go and march next time.

      Next event is the HOPE OVER FEAR rally in Glasgow a week on Saturday (17th Sept). So far less than 1k people have said they are going on Facebook. Come on people !

      https://www.facebook.com/events/323683727974497/

    44. Hamish100 says:

      nae harm to the butterfly collectors but give it a rest please. luv to all.

      Some good news brought my way today. The tory blog “For Argyll” (mainly regurgitated crap from the Mail and Courier)is gone into hibernation. Mainly UK types and failed labour/independents ie tories go on it. It was a nasty wee web site. Owned by a pal of Russell MSP I believe!! Well done to the Argyll folk for rejecting it.

    45. Smallaxe says:

      Clootie says:Any journalists out there?
      Smallaxe says
      Gie’s a Joab!

      Peace,Love and Jobseekers

    46. Robert Graham says:

      I thought that the former PM Mr Cameron was annoying with his performances during PMQs this present one takes this experience to a whole new level , listening to her is a guaranteed headache inducing experience her hesitant stop start way of speaking should come with a health warning, and her attempts at joke filled sarcastic answers are desperate at best.

    47. galamcennalath says:

      Clootie says:

      “North British Mail”

      It is astonishing how generations of Proud Scots Buts have latched onto the phrase North British.

      Do a google for North British and masses come up.

      Do a google for South British and other than an insurance company there is basically nothing. The phrase does not exist.

      Those from the south of the island of Britain call themselves English, always.

      Some of those from the north of the island refer to themselves as North British in their quest to come something other than Scottish. The Cringe with bells and whistles.

    48. Artyhetty says:

      Oh it’s all quite subtle really. Portray Nicola Sturgeon as though she has no plan, and of course as if she does not know what to do, or what she is doing. We know that she is a very astute, stepping up to the plate kinda FM, and that she knows exactly what she is doing, but the damage is done when pretendy lefty rags print this kind of claptrap.

      Of course, whatever england does do (and they don’t know what to do, they have no plan and never did have one) regards their brexit, the SNP will be blamed for the utter shambles that cameron and his millionaire pals have left in their wake.

      Re; ‘Macart@11.33am

      Just one tiny thing, the unionists are working for long term political gain, not short term, they want the prize and will do anything to keep it, Scotland comes in gold packaging, otherwise they would ditch us at the drop of a hat.

      PS, Oh and spoke to a friend other day who happened to watch the T.May interview with Marr, says she found it so boring she switched off! This friend is not a politically aware sort, but even she could tell that it was arranged to make people turn off, mentally and via the remote!

    49. louis.b.argyll says:

      Hahahahahahaha..
      The Express said ‘change the record’.
      Their readership has been drip fed the same medieval xenophobia for generations.
      They are directly responsible for England’s increased racism, new hate crimes and general all round Tory propaganda.

    50. Smallaxe says:

      galamcennalath says:North Britain exists,South British does not!

      I live in the South of North Britain

      Dae ah no Exist

      That’s worrying Me!

      Peace,Love and Smallaxe the friendly Ghost

    51. Ken500 says:

      The ‘Press’ must want to be out of a job. Destroying their own Industry with lies. Non Dom tax evaders, greedy owners, determined to keep tax evading.

      The BBC spends £2.7Billion on the most nonsense. A switch off. Totally incompetent leadership. Working on their own demise. Gov controlled and totally biased.

    52. Ken500 says:

      Putting up stickers without permission can break by-laws. The participants have to remove them.

    53. Nuada says:

      Does the Guardian actually NEED a reason to feed its readers a pack of lies? Remember, they’re a “quality” paper, not like that vermin in the Sun or the Mail. If they “massage” a story every now and then, it’s only because people will insist on holding different opinions to Guardian staff and they need to be gently brought around. For their own good, you understand.

    54. Smallaxe says:

      Unlock
      Democracy:

      Dear Smallaxe,

      On Friday, the House of Lords is set to debate a tough new law designed to force lobbyists to be more open about who they’re trying to nobble in government. We think as many people as possible deserve to know about this; the lobbyists who have the most to hide would rather they didn’t.

      Does anyone do Facebook?

      Can you help spread the word by sharing this infographic on Facebook?

      Peace,Love and Democracy

    55. Almannysbunnet says:

      I’ve come to the conclusion that the mainstream media headlines on Scotland are really wish lists rather than statements of fact. Much the same can also be said for the unionist opposition parties. They all wish and hope that indyref2 will variously be, cancelled, postponed, shelved and that the Scottish people are tired of referendums, don’t want independence, have spoken and never wish to be consulted again.
      Like I say, wishful thinking. Thankfully you can’t wish away the inevitable.

    56. heedtracker says:

      Its a free country, or rather a fee country. Graun gave Scotland this, so its no wonder massed ranks of Severinite bullshitters can mash facts with impunity. Their comments section’s now an open door for any passing tory yoon/swivel eyed loony.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/bellend4.jpg

    57. louis.b.argyll says:

      Come indyref 2.. Will there be a TV DEBATE, featuring, wait for it.. STURGEON vs MAY?

      Our adversaries are from the right-wing politically. Their spokespeople should reflect this.

      And, could we include EU politicians? One for, one against? Certainly a good excuse to keep some of the plethora of minority parties who dilute reasonable debate by merely repeating, endlessly. Especially the LIB DEMS.

    58. HandandShrimp says:

      I particularly liked the fact that Nicola has stepped back from independence and is at the same time obsessed with independence and getting on with running the country.

      One of the great things about being a Yoon in opposition is that nothing that is said has to be coherent or even intelligent. Which given the assembled ranks of Yoonery is fortunate because they excel in incoherence and stupidity.

      The Guardian is a different matter Severin is pushing Unionist propaganda for all he is worth. There is no pretence at objectivity.

    59. Smallaxe says:

      Unlock Democracy has worked closely with Lord Brooke over the last few months, in drafting the Lobbying (Transparency) Bill. When it’s debated in the House of Lords this Friday, this will be the first opportunity for peers to debate the weaknesses of the lobbying register since it was introduced two years ago.

      The current register is hopelessly weak. Three-quarters of lobbyists are exempt from registering at all and, of the ones who have registered, 1-in-4 do not even disclose who their clients are [1]. The revolving door between lobbying firms and government remains in operation, with former Foreign Secretary William Hague the latest to capitalise on industry fears over Brexit by setting up shop in a lobbying firm [2].

      In the June referendum, we were promised that the British people would “take back control”. Yet how can we when we so little idea about who is lobbying our elected government? In these uncertain times, it is crucial that the UK government catches up with the USA, EU and Scotland by setting up a comprehensive lobbying register. By helping us raise awareness of this proposed new law, you will help to force Theresa May’s government to listen.

    60. Tinto Chiel says:

      Sheesh, another 18 months of this Carmichael. This is what the Phoney War feels like.

      Welcome to the North where we are, Lollysmum. We need all the help we can get.

    61. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ harry mcaye

      “I’m not sure about this sticker business. It’s maybe more likely to annoy folk if they see stickers everywhere.”

      I take your point.

      Placing stickies onto public structures is regarded as fly-posting, it’s illegal and can attract a fine to those caught doing it. However, distributors will be handing out stickies for the public to wear about their person i.e. on their coats, jackets, t-shirts, bags, rucksacks or whatever.

      Distributors cannot, however, control what the public of Scotland do with any stickers they receive and cannot be held responsible for someone else placing a sticky on a lamp-post, bin or whatever.

      The most important point here though is that the pro-UK bias being broadcast 24/7 by the BBC in Scotland MUST be challenged. People must be alerted to what they are doing. That is why thousands of people up and down the country wearing BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND’ stickies will help get the message out there, that the BBC in Scotland cannot be trusted.

      Also, the benefit of wearing the stickies is that anyone who asks about it can be engaged in conversation and pointed to where they can find more information, examples of the BBC in Scotland’s bias and abuse of power.

      If we are to have a much better chance of winning IndyRef#2 then we simply must expose and neutralise the BBC for the Tory mouthpiece it is and we can do that by getting these stickies out to the public to alert them to what the BBC is really doing. That is what Peep the Beeb is about.

      If anyone would like to contribute to the campaign then you can do so here:

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

      Thanks for everyones’ support thus far.

    62. Smallaxe says:

      You’s r’aw’ postin’ too fast.

      SLOW DOON!

      PEACE,Love and Slow Coaches:-)

    63. Dr Jim says:

      The House of Commons The UK Parliament The Mother of Parliaments the place where Scotland can get a say IN everything but don’t get a say ON anything

      Even when what will probably prove to be the most lightweight moronic career finishing Prime Minister ever with a rabid Tory cutting agenda stands at the dispatch box and in effect says to direct questioning
      I’m not telling you about any plans and I’m not going to answer any questions so there

      Yoonland still says UK good Scotland bad Theresa May rubbish but we don’t care because we don’t want Scottish uncertainty we want UK uncertainty

    64. Smallaxe says:

      Proud Cybernat says:Fly Posting:

      Tried it but it’s dead hard tae catch enough Fly’s

      Peace,Love and Flycatchers

    65. louis.b.argyll says:

      Right now on bbc24..story about school uniforms in Kent.

      FYCK OFF WITH YOUR LITTLE ENGLAND PISH!

      Put on local news, this is not a national story..

    66. Brian Taylor described the SNP’s 14 Bill Programme as, ‘ the nuts and bolts’ of government.
      Yesterday in Holyrood we were treated to the Nuts and Dolts of Government ‘Opposition.’.
      And never has the Better Together Unionist We Hate The SNP Consortium assembled together such a woeful group of third rate politicians, and jobs- for- the- boys list MSP hangers on, led by the spectacularly ordinary abject failures as Davidson , Dugdale, and Rennie, as this lot who now fill the benches in Edinburgh.
      I searched BBC News Where They Are Parliament Channel in vain for Yesterday in Holyrood, and scanned the on line Dead Tree Scrolls for a breakdown of the 14 Bills being introduced by our FM to start the new session, also in vain.
      Since 4 Arch Right Blue Tory English Nationalist zealots , Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davies, and ‘Maggie’ May, who like Clunking Fist Brown, is yet another Brit PM foisted upon us undemocratically, the 15th Draft Bill, a contingency measure on Indyref 2 is the only headline on which our Fourth Estate Fifth Column are interested in commenting .
      Ruth Davidson (for she is as much to blame as her Tory puppet masters Down There) threatens that ship millions of ‘hard working’ EU citizens will be shipped back to Johnny Foreigner Land, presumably transported en masse in Virgin cattle trucks via Tilbury or Southampton (well, Hitler’s Final Solution seems to be the blueprint) , 1.2 million Brits will be turfed out of their Spanish villas, and converted French barns, and sent back here in retaliation, while we will be denied access to the biggest trading block in the world, 100,000’s jobs lost, we shall have our EU citizenship taken from us; just because WATP Two Jobs Adam Tomkins and Ruddy Jackson Carlaw’ will defy 62% the democratic will of their fellow countrymen and women who voted voted Remain.
      WE are a subjugated colony of England. We can fuck off, because that tremulous nervous wreck, Mundell the Michty, asserts that our democratically elected Scottish Government has no ‘veto’ over Brexit talks.
      Brian Taylor insultingly implied that the 14 Bill Programme for Government was the product of pressure from the opposition; that the SNP had neglected the day job, that NS was fixated on Independence, and the constitution.
      What a load of pish, Brian.
      “Well, I think they’ve had a “Big Role” (my parenthesis) in this programme for Government, to some extent, because they’ve said in advance that Nicola Sturgeon has been neglecting the day job and focussing too much on independence.”
      Pish and nonsense, Brian.
      Yesterday’s interventions in Holyrood from the Better Together Mob?
      Davidson:- Not matching the 5% cut in taxes to the filthy rich implemented by the Blue Tories in England will somehow disadvantage Scotland, will threaten growth in the Scottish economy.
      Well, if we had elected Ruth’s lot, we may be experiencing the same Open for Business brouhaha that May and Co are peddling Down There.
      29 new schools will open Up Here in the next year. (and not a crumbling PFI wall in sight.)
      £100 million will go directly to headmasters, bypassing local Councils, who have made such a gawdawful job of reducing the attainment gap over half a century of UK Labour control, with direct input from teachers, pupils,and parents on how the money will be best used to improve education.
      Meanwhile Ruth and Co have slashed the English Education budget by 20%, teachers in English held a one day strike 5/7/16 in protest at larger class sizes, teachers being asked to teach subjects in which they are not trained, and in what is described as an ‘ideological attack’, unqualified teachers are being recruited to save money; sorry, ‘to achieve efficiency savings’.
      Ruth Davidson has also cut £259 million from Youth Service spending, forcing the closure of 550 LA youth centres, the Education Maintenance Allowance (ESA) has been scrapped, a cut of £30 per week for those pupils in poorest households.
      But Ruth doesn’t want to talk about that. She is the unacceptable Ba’ Face of Capitalism.
      Tax handouts to the rich. Fuck the poor and their education.
      Brian Taylor’s ‘big role’ of the Opposition? She’s certainly getting ‘bigger’ by the day.
      Kezia seems unaware that as a Red Tory she’s supposed to be ripping Ruth’s heart out with her bare hands.
      But no, we’re Better Together, aren’t we? It’s that wee Basturd Sturgeon who is to blame for everything, not the WM lot.
      ”Over the past decade, this Parliament has become more and more powerful but the Government’s programme has become less and less ambitious’.
      And that’s it. That’s all she has to offer. What a fucking insult to the Scottish electorate, who apparently seem to think that the SNP have been doing a pretty good job of fending of the Red Blue and Yellow Tory cuts to our living standards, and the fabric of our uniquely Scottish society. How could we have been so thick?
      Neil Findlay, I urge you to have a word with this lass, who is undoubtedly shaping up to be the biggest failure in Scottish politics ever.
      It’s the Tories who are the enemy, Kezia.
      And what can I say about Polyester Man Rennie?
      His contribution to the debate on the Government’s Programme?
      “Ditch the charade, and ditch her plans for independence. That would be the best thing for Scotland.’
      Worth every penny of your £1200 a week, Mastermind.
      I could see why you thought this parcel of rogues had a big role to play, Brian.
      The frightening and quite ludicrous thought of any of them governing Scotland, would concentrate my mind too.
      The Fourth Estate Fifth Column is alive and well.

    67. Brian Taylor described the SNP’s 14 Bill Programme as, ‘ the nuts and bolts’ of government.
      Yesterday in Holyrood we were treated to the Nuts and Dolts of Government ‘Opposition.’.
      And never has the Better Together Unionist We Hate The SNP Consortium assembled together such a woeful group of third rate politicians, and jobs- for- the- boys list MSP hangers on, led by the spectacularly ordinary abject failures as Davidson , Dugdale, and Rennie, as this lot who now fill the benches in Edinburgh.
      I searched BBC News Where They Are Parliament Channel in vain for Yesterday in Holyrood, and scanned the on line Dead Tree Scrolls for a breakdown of the 14 Bills being introduced by our FM to start the new session, also in vain.
      In the like event that 4 Arch Right Blue Tory English Nationalist zealots , Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davies, and ‘Maggie’ May, who like Clunking Fist Brown, is yet another Brit PM foisted upon us undemocratically, the 15th Draft Bill, a contingency measure on Indyref 2 is the only headline on which our Fourth Estate Fifth Column are interested in commenting .
      Ruth Davidson (for she is as much to blame as her Tory puppet masters Down There) threatens that ship millions of ‘hard working’ EU citizens will be shipped back to Johnny Foreigner Land, presumably transported en masse in Virgin cattle trucks via Tilbury or Southampton (well, Hitler’s Final Solution seems to be the blueprint) , 1.2 million Brits will be turfed out of their Spanish villas, and converted French barns, and sent back here in retaliation, while we will be denied access to the biggest trading block in the world, 100,000’s jobs lost, we shall have our EU citizenship taken from us; just because WATP Two Jobs Adam Tomkins and Ruddy Jackson Carlaw’ will defy 62% the democratic will of their fellow countrymen and women who voted voted Remain.
      WE are a subjugated colony of England. We can fuck off, because that tremulous nervous wreck, Mundell the Michty, asserts that our democratically elected Scottish Government has no ‘veto’ over Brexit talks.
      Brian Taylor insultingly implied that the 14 Bill Programme for Government was the product of pressure from the opposition; that the SNP had neglected the day job, that NS was fixated on Independence, and the constitution.
      What a load of pish, Brian.
      “Well, I think they’ve had a “Big Role” (my parenthesis) in this programme for Government, to some extent, because they’ve said in advance that Nicola Sturgeon has been neglecting the day job and focussing too much on independence.”
      Pish and nonsense, Brian.
      Yesterday’s interventions in Holyrood from the Better Together Mob?
      Davidson:- Not matching the 5% cut in taxes to the filthy rich implemented by the Blue Tories in England will somehow disadvantage Scotland, will threaten growth in the Scottish economy.
      Well, if we had elected Ruth’s lot, we may be experiencing the same Open for Business brouhaha that May and Co are peddling Down There.
      29 new schools will open Up Here in the next year. (and not a crumbling PFI wall in sight.)
      £100 million will go directly to headmasters, bypassing local Councils, who have made such a gawdawful job of reducing the attainment gap over half a century of UK Labour control, with direct input from teachers, pupils,and parents on how the money will be best used to improve education.
      Meanwhile Ruth and Co have slashed the English Education budget by 20%, teachers in English held a one day strike 5/7/16 in protest at larger class sizes, teachers being asked to teach subjects in which they are not trained, and in what is described as an ‘ideological attack’, unqualified teachers are being recruited to save money; sorry, ‘to achieve efficiency savings’.
      Ruth Davidson has also cut £259 million from Youth Service spending, forcing the closure of 550 LA youth centres, the Education Maintenance Allowance (ESA) has been scrapped, a cut of £30 per week for those pupils in poorest households.
      But Ruth doesn’t want to talk about that. She is the unacceptable Ba’ Face of Capitalism.
      Tax handouts to the rich. Fuck the poor and their education.
      Brian Taylor’s ‘big role’ of the Opposition? She’s certainly getting ‘bigger’ by the day.
      Kezia seems unaware that as a Red Tory she’s supposed to be ripping Ruth’s heart out with her bare hands.
      But no, we’re Better Together, aren’t we? It’s that wee Basturd Sturgeon who is to blame for everything, not the WM lot.
      ”Over the past decade, this Parliament has become more and more powerful but the Government’s programme has become less and less ambitious’.
      And that’s it. That’s all she has to offer. What a fucking insult to the Scottish electorate, who apparently seem to think that the SNP have been doing a pretty good job of fending of the Red Blue and Yellow Tory cuts to our living standards, and the fabric of our uniquely Scottish society. How could we have been so thick?
      Neil Findlay, I urge you to have a word with this lass, who is undoubtedly shaping up to be the biggest failure in Scottish politics ever.
      It’s the Tories who are the enemy, Kezia.
      And what can I say about Polyester Man Rennie?
      His contribution to the debate on the Government’s Programme?
      “Ditch the charade, and ditch her plans for independence. That would be the best thing for Scotland.’
      Worth every penny of your £1200 a week, Mastermind.
      I could see why you thought this parcel of rogues had a big role to play, Brian.
      The frightening and quite ludicrous thought of any of them governing Scotland, would concentrate my mind too.
      The Fourth Estate Fifth Column is alive and well.

    68. Proud Cybernat says:

      I should have added the following to my previous post about stickies –

      What’s the alternative? We do nothing? When you do nothing then nothing is exactly what you get.

      Doing nothing is simply NOT an option as far as the BBC is concerned. We, THE PEOPLE of SCOTALND, have to tell them loud and proud “Yer tea’s oot, BBC!”

    69. mogabee says:

      Lollysmum

      Big welcome to Scotland! Wondered why you were so quiet.:)

      See that Severin, I think we should make him our “foreign” correspondant…He surely would manage to get that right, Non?

    70. Ken500 says:

      7.30pm Parliamentary Channel

      Nicola’s statement in the Scottish Parliament.

    71. heedtracker says:

      Graun’s practically bust too. Its gone from a 300k readership newspaper, to a world wide multi million online readership. Sounds all groovy and hip but it cant make any money at all. God knows what’s keeping Severin in the life of UKOK luxury, what BBC gimps take for granted.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmiqDANSo0c

      Here’s ex Graun editor Russerbridge chatting to at an FT ligger on Hampstead Heath. An utterly ferocious torboy, with two of his toryboy minions now footlose and torboy free with BBC 2 Newsnight.

      Marvel as Editor Russerbridge, 2.12 mins, tries to avoid saying rancid The Graun cant make any money. Its all facebook’s fault you see, not because the UKOK news market for toryboy bullshit is brim full.

      Russerbridge is now a big shot at Oxford.

    72. mogabee says:

      Hamish100

      The blog ForArgyll had nothing to do with Mike Russell, run by an Irish woman mainly.

      If that has closed down I’m gonna walk around with a smile on my face today! It’s a shame because Ms Henderson was very helpful during the debacle with Argyll & Bute council trying to close down 26 schools in 2011…

      Never mind, too bad.

    73. call me dave says:

      The Hootsman on that story I heard on shortbread a wee while ago.

      No trade deal allowed with Australia for two and a half years

      https://archive.is/XffmA

      Estimates at £4.8bn and chicken feed but a start say some (Spectator I read) whereas the EU it’s North of £228bn.

    74. Smallaxe says:

      Jack Collatin:

      Never in the field of human politics
      Has so few,done so much harm,
      To so many.

      Peace,Love and Smallaxe Churchill

    75. Macart says:

      @Lollysmum

      Heh, next door neighbours and a big welcome to Scotland.

      Good to see you posting again. 🙂

    76. ronnie anderson says:

      Chips ur vegtables an Fish dont read , any paper of your choice MR Cairns .

    77. Free Scotland says:

      What was the idea behind giving a newspaper a name like “The Guardian?” Was it meant to suggest “Guardian of the truth?” If so, it has failed abysmally.

    78. Lollysmum says:

      O/T
      Thanks for the welcome Tinto Chiel & Mogabee. I’ve waited a long time for this 🙂

      I’ve been so quiet because a) I didn’t have broadband access till last week & b)life & family clamoured for attention. I’ll be glad to get settled at last.

      I see I’m just in time for a trip out on the 18th-hope there’s loads of Wingers going. Hope to see you there.

    79. Petra says:

      O/T

      GERS:

      The National – Long Letters – Mark Breingan, Cumbernauld:

      ‘When you begin to probe GERS figures, they soon unravel.’

      ”I know we keep going on about GERS but we have to get some clarification for Yes voters. It’s not because they are wrong in their beliefs that an independent Scotland could be a successful independent country, but just how some of the figures are made up.

      The classic failings of GERS is that it makes people look for the money in the wrong places, or it simply does not show up because the UK Treasury don’t want us to know our true wealth.

      Claiming the figures raised in excise duty is directly linked to the whisky exports that are routed through English ports is wrong.

      There are no taxes raised on exports! Any excise duties collected are based on home consumption, so the whisky consumed in rUK would be taxed and collected by them and the same would go for an independent Scotland.

      However – and this is the big however, it is the corporation taxes of companies such as Diageo where they pay tax in London that we should rightly be ensuring is paid in Scotland.

      Corporation tax is something that is hidden off GERS because no single company declares and pays tax on their Scottish originating profits, none.

      So as you journey round the country looking at retailers such as Argos, B&Q, ASDA, Tesco, Morrison’s, Next, Poundland, Sports Division and the list goes on and on, billions in profits are syphoned out of Scotland.

      Then think there are oil companies, oil services companies, shipping companies, engineering companies, accountants, energy companies and so many other areas of industry.

      It’s easy to see where the wealth that iScotland would have is hidden.

      Yes there would be a flip side where Scottish companies would have to pay tax on UK trading but the trading is balanced in favour of them selling to us.

      I’d suspect that most of the “Scottish trade” to the rUK that Unionists claim we are risking is actually being done by English companies ie Diageo selling Scottish whisky in England.

      Now Diageo is not going to stop itself selling its own products after independence. On the flip side every Scottish company that imports through an English port pays import taxes which is collected and attributed to England.
      When you start to ask questions of GERS it all unravels and it’s easy to see why the IMF value Scotland about £100 billion more than the UK treasury.

      It’s time we take the fight to the Unionists on the right information and not the misinformation they provide to make us look like deluded fools.”

      ……………………………………………

      Michael Fry: ‘Controversial financial figures are failing to give true picture of taxes and expenditure in Scotland’ – The National.

      …”There are two possible futures for Scotland. One lies in the world of GERS, a world of provincial dependency, most likely still in the UK. The other lies in an independent nation generating growth out of its own people and resources.”

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/Nicola Sturgeon: Scotland is strong enough to go it alone.

      ………………………………………………..

      ‘The question to ask every unionist about GERS – Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp’

      ……. ”Why, when Scotland is a country with an embarrassment of economic advantages that any small to medium-sized independent country would give their left arm for, do we have a financial deficit greater than any other independent European nation of similar size? Why, if we really are Better Together and the basis of our economy is so strong are we not doing better than those we would benchmark against?

      Why, when being run from Westminster is supposed to be such an advantage, does GERS (the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland) report clearly demonstrate that it isn’t. Look at benchmark nations, ones with a similar-sized population to Scotland that coexist in the same Western European geographic, economic and political environment, but are independent. According to GERS all Scotland’s benchmark independent EU members (and Norway) are financially better off than Scotland – how come?” …………

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/question-ask-every-unionist-gers/

    80. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can’t believe anyone on here is moaning about stickers and fucking bye-laws.

      Proud Cybernat has gone out of his way to organise something positive. At no point has he even vaguely suggested breaking any laws.

      What is the point if us all being here if it’s not to inspire action? Is this turning into some kind of an online fucking sewing-bee?

      If it’s not possible to make a positive contribution to someone else’s effort, why not consider just shutting the fuck up and letting them get on with it instead of sowing doubts in the minds of other readers, 99.9% of whom never ever comment?

      If we’d listened to the hummers-and-hawers, minning-moanies and glass-half-empty bawbags generally, there would’ve been NO WOS get-togethers, NO action at PQ, and nowhere near 46% Yes in Indyref 1.

      Sort yersels oot, FFS!

    81. bjsalba says:

      @Jack Collatin
      7 September, 2016 at 1:53 pm

      See Page 3 The National Today.

      Proposed Bills at a Glance.

    82. Ken500 says:

      The Guardian was the only paper with any editorial independence, because of it’s constitution. Cameron and Clegg illegally put the storm troopers in to smash up the newsroom and threaten the Editor with jail, Re Snowden. Now they kowtow to the Tories. Most of the rest of the national Press are owned by tax evading Non Doms/Unionists. The Telegraph, the Mail, the Express.

      Thatcher illegally gave Murdoch control, and lied about it. Abused her position and broke the Parliamentry code. There is supposed to be a balanced and fair Press, ensured by Gov. Without a balanced Press there is no democracy. Tax evading non Doms should not be allowed to own the Press. If they do not pay taxes or are residents they should not be allowed to own the Press. Westminster Unionists put ‘D’ notices on the Press to cover up their criminality. They have likely out a ‘D’ notice on the Chilcott Verdict.

    83. Proud Cybernat says:

      GERS in short:

      http://imgur.com/IWhJ0Wm

    84. Norman Stewart says:

      However, when the Article 50 process is triggered in three months’ time, the UK will be on a two-year path to the EU exit door.

      Do you know something we don’t know rev.

    85. Smallaxe says:

      Ian Brotherhood: Agreed!

      Come writers and critics
      Who prophesize with your pen
      And keep your eyes wide
      The chance won’t come again
      And don’t speak too soon
      For the wheel’s still in spin
      And there’s no tellin’ who
      That it’s namin’
      For the loser now
      Will be later to win
      For the times they are a-changin’.
      Come senators, congressmen
      Please heed the call
      Don’t stand in the doorway
      Don’t block up the hall
      For he that gets hurt
      Will be he who has stalled
      There’s a battle outside
      And it is ragin’
      It’ll soon shake your windows
      And rattle your walls
      For the times they are a-changin’.

      Peace,Love and Changing

    86. bjsalba says:

      @Ken500

      The Guardian was the only paper with any editorial independence, because of it’s constitution

      Hasn’t been a trust for years. I think it was in 2008 it changed to a PLC.

    87. Petra says:

      @ Proud Cybernat says at 2:45 pm …. ”GERS in short:”

      http://imgur.com/IWhJ0Wm

      That would be great on a billboard PC.

    88. Still no words form the wicked cybernat complainers of the vile online statements of Nicola’s miscarriage, after the Torygraph went on about momism?

    89. Lochside says:

      Hear Hear Ian….and would all the poets and comic singers also take their ‘talents’ to o/t?…this forum is descending into an echo chamber of babble. Action…starting with the 18th at Glasgow Green.

    90. Smallaxe says:

      Ken500 says:Non Doms

      Stop Non Dom’s

      Buy Durex

      Peace,Love and Family Planning

    91. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Petra @ 2:54 pm

      What about on the side of a bus as well as a billboard?

      Lots of exposure especially if web address to Wings etc. articles used to demonstrate the facts of the message is visible.

      Style and substance.

      Could be time for a “Liberation through Education” Campaign.

      Billboards, posters, sides of buses etc.

      Advertising space is revenue to companies regardless of it’s message and every penny is a prisoner in these times of austerity and Brexit uncertainty.

    92. clipper says:

      Dave McEwen Hill 12.11

      Ha! So he’s a thief as well as a waste of space.

    93. call me dave says:

      Listening to the FM now answering questions at Holyrood and what PM May said earlier today at PMQ’s the Brexit situation is a right guddle.

      I’m glad she took her time to give short thrift to Ruthless, and Rennie and then best of all Carlaw. 🙁

    94. Juteman says:

      @Ian Brotherhood at 2.37
      Well fuckin said that man.
      Tine to get in about the bastards.

    95. Smallaxe says:

      Lochside:

      Your wish is my command

      Bye Bye

    96. clipper says:

      Harry McAye 12.42

      If you want to be worried about something shouldn’t you be a bit more worried about the bbc getting out of hand and being counter productive?

    97. Flower of Scotland says:

      After watching the Scottish Parliament TV yesterday, I hope that folk on here and other Indy sites will never again be fooled into splitting an SNP vote with the Greens.
      We have now given the Unionists the ammunition to use in calling the SNP a minority government. We have given the very pompous Patrick Harvey, the chance to stand with his Unionist colleagues and stick the boot into the SNPs programme for Government.
      This wee pretendy Indy party, the Greens, whose amount of seats were inflated, will always hold, a future Infrastructure plan for Scotland, back, in the name of being “Green”!

      Scotland has the worst infrastructure in Europe and the Unionists want it to stay like that.

    98. bjsalba @ 2.24 pm
      Thanks for that, bjs.
      A flickering candle to light our way through the darkness of our bought and paid for MSM.
      Smallaxe @ 2.15.
      Loved it.
      Peace and love, oh bridge builder of Gretna.

    99. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Flower of Scotland

      “We have now given the Unionists the ammunition to use in calling the SNP a minority government.”

      What? You mean we’re not a one party state?

    100. manandboy says:

      Mrs May is in very big trouble both politically , because England is divided over Brexit, and economically because every foreign owned business in England is preparing to leave the UK completely.

      The Unionist PR response to that is to fill the media with fireworks aimed at Nicola and the SNP so as to distract the population’s attention away from the coming Brexit train wreck.
      It’s a propaganda war in which we are all now agreed we will be pounded by the Press and the BBC,STV,SKY & CH4, for the foreseeable future.
      So get a helmet and find some way of shielding your mind from the onslaught. Be in no doubt about this – we are now in a fight to the finish.

    101. Dan Huil says:

      Great to see the anti-Scottish britnat media so messed up over Nicola’s statement. Of course these anti-Scottish britnat journalists [!] will continue to do Scotland down without admitting their own britnat hypocrisy.

      Don’t buy britnat newspapers; don’t visit britnat newspaper web sites; don’t pay the bbc tax.

      Slowly but surely they are drowning in their own britnat media cesspit.

    102. Grouse Beater says:

      The guardian likes to think of itself as a ‘liberal’ newspaper.

      (Pause – wait for laughter to die down.)

      Editors will warp, twist, or completely ignore any news story that does not fit their bourgeois mentality and ‘Britishness’.

    103. Arbroath1320 says:

      As a certain pair of brothers are renowned for saying:

      To you … to me … to you … to me … 😀

    104. Another Union Dividend says:

      SNP again prove that they are the only effective opposition to Tories at Westminster as Corbyn fails to tackle May about Brexit shambles.

      Lib Dems now lining up with their Unionist Tory allies as MSP this afternoon on Politics Scotland claims SNP doesn’t have a democratic mandate to call a referendum.

      Kevin Mckenna with an excellent article in The National on the nasty Tory party.

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/kevin-mckenna-why-ordinary-folk-are-enticed-into-backing-the-nasty-party-is-an-enigma.22101

    105. Grouse Beater says:

      Smallaxe – no disrespect, but in case you get chastised let this take effect. I enjoy your poetry but Stuart ain’t keen on Wings as Poet’s Corner, debate in between. Some Limericks you’ll spot poking fun at some sap, but please take great care, peace, and do mind the gap.

    106. Cactus says:

      Yebo, a timely point of note..

      “However, when the Article 50 process is triggered in three months’ time, the UK will be on a two-year path to the EU exit door.”

      It’s gonna happen within a MAXIMUM of three months.

      SO get ready Scotland and be prepared.

      As for ‘twirling..’ not my taste in music but here’s another very popular song:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGNiXGX2nLU

      Seasons Greetings!

    107. Proud Cybernat says:

      BBC are missing more than the truth…

      http://imgur.com/a/gk5OL

    108. dramfineday says:

      Wow, as seen today in Edinburgh – Kaye Adams’ coupon on the back end of a lothian bus. I only caught a glimpse, but I think it said “Talking for Scotland”. Feeling the heat over a BBC shortbread house with the need to advertise for an audience?

    109. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @ dramfineday

      ‘The back of the bus they canny spin …’

    110. Petra says:

      Just been watching the Commons climate change debate. Our representative Callum McCaig has been doing us PROUD. REALLY knows his stuff and following many comments that the UK is leading the World in this field he detailed just how Scotland has been leading the UK and they agreed …. wee ya, ya, ya! Has also come up with a few ideas as to how a great deal of money could be made due to our expertise …. the planet is covered with seas and tides etc. Amazing how they reacted to that one, lol.

      @ donald anderson says at 2:58 pm …. ”Still no words from the wicked cybernat complainers of the vile online statements of Nicola’s miscarriage, after the Torygraph went on about momism?”

      Some comments are really disgusting Donald but I came across this from Marr, Gillian Tett and Shami Chakrabarti : 12 minutes in.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F_VWCJSBeI

      @ Jockanese Wind Talker says at 3:11 pm …. ”Petra, what about on the side of a bus as well as a billboard? Lots of exposure especially if web address to Wings etc. articles used to demonstrate the facts of the message is visible. Style and substance. Could be time for a “Liberation through Education” Campaign. Billboards, posters, sides of buses etc. Advertising space is revenue to companies regardless of it’s message and every penny is a prisoner in these times of austerity and Brexit uncertainty.”

      Yeah JWT every idea welcome. Plaster them all over the place. I’ve even been thinking of covering my car boot …. tucked in tightly. Don’t know if that’s legal or not?

    111. G4jeepers says:

      Anyone got the link to the crowdfunder for the lassie who climbed up the front of Edinburgh castle?

      Thanks in advance

    112. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t know how much plainer Michael O’Leary needs to get in his support for cutting APD, but not just that, the heavy hint of support for Independent Scotland:

      http://archive.is/FdZVY

      He was similar in Indy Ref 1, but Brexit seems to have made him more open.

    113. Proud Cybernat says:

      More from Union Jackie…

      http://imgur.com/a/1oWvC

    114. Petra says:

      ”And twirling, always twirling.”

      I know Stu posted this recently but it just sums this meeja propagandist machine debacle up for me, so posting again.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtR771uBkGY

    115. galamcennalath says:

      For those who haven’t seen it, the official GERS publication is here …

      http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0050/00504649.pdf

      Quite honestly you have no idea how accurate these figures are. Lots of posters have queried apportionment of corporation tax from the likes of Diagio. Any of these figures could be based of dodgy allocation in income/expenditure.

      Scotland spend £1.395billion on ‘Common and Public Services’ and £0.839billion on ‘International Services’. Who knew? Eh?

      Of course GERS has nothing to do with iScotland’s books.

    116. gordoz says:

      O/T
      Anyone wanting to listen to online Indy leaning radio while on Wings. Argyll Independent Radio – Wed nights 7-9pm Backtrax.

      And thanx to Tackety Beets for offering the new gear for the station, absolutely magic. (Much Appreciated)

      http://www.argyllradio.co.uk/ (More on off topic)

    117. heedtracker says:

      Rancid doesn’t like JC but that tory crew really do not like what Scottish democracy is producing one bit…

      http://archive.is/zvBwt

      is not what happened when Angus Robertson handed Teresa Thatcher her thick as mince tory a__e, this after noon.

    118. heedtracker says:

      Golly, comments (3376) under Severin McSpanner’s latest UKOK display. Open Guardian account to join the discussion? Naw Thanks.

      Dip in to Severin’s 30+ page comment section of anti everything Scotland dripping malice, clothes peg over nose, rubber gloves on,

      Corrigenda 20h ago

      “We in Scotland have a £15bn budget deficit last year. That was equivalent to 21% of overall government spending in Scotland or 9.5% of GDP, a budget deficit larger than that of Greece”. Yet still the FM promises even more give-aways like a mediaeval monarch throwing pennies to the populace and cannot see that, exactly as happened after the Darien Scheme collapsed, Scotland will once again need England to rescue things. Trouble is will England want to do that?

      MCourtney Corrigenda 19h ago

      We always do. And we always will.
      England will prop up Scotland’s over-ambition. It’s fine.
      From Darien to the experiments of RBS we keep bailing you out. And we are glad to.
      Because we love the risks you take to punch above your weight. When it works we get steam engines and a third of the world’s land mass.
      Keep gambling. We’ll cover you.

    119. galamcennalath says:

      In a letter today to Nicola, Kezia says …

      “Scotland voted … to maintain our relationship with both the Eu and the UK, delivering an outcome that achieves that is what Scottish Labour supports.”

      Fair enough position at the moment. But, Kezia, where do you stand when these two objectives become mutually exclusive, as they most likely will?

      What’s your Plan B, Kezia?

      Nicola certainly has one!

    120. harry mcaye says:

      Proud Cybernat and Ian Brotherhood – I can certainly see the benefit of the stickers in conjunction with GA Ponsonby’s BBC Bias documentary, perhaps having them available after it’s screened. I’m just not sure many folk will want to walk around wearing stickers as they drop the kids off at school or do the shopping. I know, it could start conversations and if folk want to wear them then fair play. It’s not for me though. We are allowed to disagree on things, not that I’m completely against it as you can tell.

      I contributed a fair bit towards the docu and would do the same for any billboard fundraiser. I agree with the poster above, a billboard campaign is overdue and it could be our biggest financial challenge yet.

    121. Stoker says:

      @ harry mcaye (@12:42pm)

      Harry, my dear fellow Hamiltonian, take it from me, i for one will not be breaking the law.

      I intend on placing any stickers i get my hands on inside numerous copies of the Wee Black Book i have still to find a home for.

      I will also find a way of encouraging the recipients of these wee treats to position their stickers in a prominent place, such as on their front doors or dash-boards if they are taxi drivers etc etc etc.

      The idea is to educate the masses not break the law! This is something we need to get behind. If you chip, chip, chip away at the foundations, sooner or later that building will fall.

      C’mon folks, lets expose our No1 enemy:
      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

    122. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T
      ?Davie McCrae? to YES Lockerbie
      2 hrs
      Can’t quite believe the response I just got from “oor coaches” in Annan! … I was trying to hire a coach for the Yes movement rally in Glasgow green on the 18th. I was asked what the event was and when I explained he refused to hire his coach because he “doesn’t believe in independence”! … I wasn’t asking him to believe in anything!, I just wanted to hire a bloody bus!

      So for future reference, “oor coaches” obviously don’t want “oor” business!

      Balgonie castle noo Oor coaches ur they sharing the same double barreled shotguns.

    123. headtracker @5.09

      ‘Maggie’ May is not going to ‘reveal her hand’ too soon. By all accounts they have yet to remove the cellophane from the pack of cards and shuffle them, so ill prepared were they for a Leave vote.
      What happens when the EU reject their free trade proposal? What’s your Plan B Ruth? I say ‘Ruth’ because she is as culpable as her Tory handlers down there in WM: as are Dugdale, whose leader Corbyn, against whom she is voting in the interminable Labour Head Boy campaign, is Brexit Lite now,and Willie Rennie who remains an insignificant sad joke.
      Is it a ‘Secret Society’ thing (nudge nudge, wink wink, say no more.) that he gets blanket coverage by our compliant MSM?
      He is as useless as a water pistol in a forest fire.
      Corbyn is a sad joke. Corbyn’s a London Boy so Housing is up there on his list of must ask questions at PMQ.
      A first time buyer in London Town, the City that is devouring itself, needs to find £450,000 for a one bedroomed Lego land flat. The bloated SE preoccupies the Islington Boy’s mind; not the real injustices of Northern territory that is Scotland.

      “Corbyn said negotiations “must focus on expanding trade jobs and investments and defending social and environmental protection”.

      What the fuck does this vacuous little soundbite mean? Absolutely hee haw.
      We shall be free of this lot in 2 years tops.

    124. Dan Huil says:

      @heedtracker 5:22pm

      Jings! First a classic Scottish Cringe, followed up by a classic condescending Englander. The ugly faces of british nationalism.

      Glad I don’t visit Guardian website.

    125. Macart says:

      @Heedtracket

      Its what Severin gets well paid for and I’m sure the metrocentric Guardian is thankful for his aid in generating the income.

      Grim innit?

      The media doing its bit for social cohesion on these islands, promoting misinformation, ignorance and hatred between populations. Setting back the social union of the home nations for profit. Utterly disgusted I ever used to buy the rag. A mistake I’ll never repeat. 🙁

    126. Robert Peffers says:

      @sinky says: 7 September, 2016 at 11:45 am:

      ” … If that’s not concentrating on the day job, I don’t know what is.”

      Far as I’m concerned that is the main part of the day job.

    127. manandboy says:

      This is a list of many of the things which all Unionist politicians are instructed to say at every opportunity. They are all just PR puppets of 10 Downing St.
      Watch out especially for Ruth Davidson, Willie Rennie and Kezia Dugdale churning these out.

      These are the messages which, repeated frequently, will influence the way we vote IF WE LET THEM INSIDE OUR HEAD.

      So pay attention every day and watch out for them.

      *The Scottish Government/SNP must ‘concentrate on the day job’ and forget Constitutional matters.

      *The SNP is now a minority Government and is in decline.

      *At the same time the Tories are increasing in Scotland under Scotland’s most popular Scottish politician, Ruth Davidson.

      *Why should the UK listen to a party (SNP)in decline in Scotland

      *It would be mad to leave the UK (big market) to join the EU (smaller market)

      *Holyrood is the most powerful devolved parliament in the world.

      *The SNP are guilty of dereliction of duty in not using the extensive new powers they have to alleviate suffering in Scotland and grow the Scottish economy.

      *The sovereign will of the Scottish people in IndyRef14 must be respected.

      *The IndyRef14 result must stand for a generation/lifetime.

      *Lord Smith has declared the Vow as fulfilled.

      You may have a few more to add to the list.

    128. heedtracker says:

      Another party political broadcast on behalf of the Conservative party/BBC r4 PM news, “PM May says she will not give a running commentary on Brexit negotiations.” Just when you think the BBC cant get any worse.

    129. Alastair Wright says:

      I’ve been trying to work out what is wrong with the yoonaraty for a while now. I’ve concluded that they are partaking in a game of shark jumping.

    130. galamcennalth says:

      @manandboy

      Re list

      Yes. It’s like a list of bullet points circulated to all Unionist politicians, online pundits, and loyal media.

      We can challenge them, of course. As we currently do.

      An alternative would be to have a pro Indy list, repeated endlessly.

      No 1, “We didn’t vote for Tories”

      “The Vow was never delivered”

      “They promised to make Holyrood permanent. We’re waiting.”

      “We don’t want Trident, yet they forced it on us”

      “They have reneged on so much, they have declared IndyRef14 null and void”

      … Etc, whatever 🙂

    131. Rock says:

      Nuada,

      “Does the Guardian actually NEED a reason to feed its readers a pack of lies? Remember, they’re a “quality” paper, not like that vermin in the Sun or the Mail.”

      The Guardian and The Observer are worse vermin than the likes of the Sun, the Mail, the Express.

      They were the chief promoters of Tony Blair.

    132. Tam Jardine says:

      Petra

      Re Gers. I have been expecting and have been disappointed not to be presented with the meta data behind the gers figures. I have the expenditure data for last year on a spreadsheet which gives vastly more detailed info than is on the report.

      The gers contact is looking into it. I have yet to see the data for revenues but I have looked into the expenditure data behind the figured for last year.

      There are loads of non-id items of expenditure attributed to Scotland as we know. What I can’t get my head around is what proportion of these are actually spent here and result in tax revenue here.

      It is opaque. what I find quite strange is that for spending in Scotland everything is identified and attributed directly to Scotland. Commensurate pending in rest of UK seems to more often than you would think result in that 8.28566% punt in from Scottish coffers. It never, NEVER goes the other way.

      Anyway- some great posts from you, Jack, Macart and others. Hope to see you all on the 18th at Glasgow Green.

    133. heedtracker says:

      Utterly disgusted I ever used to buy the rag. A mistake I’ll never repeat.

      Glad I don’t visit Guardian website.

      Its sad though, that they have swung so far right like this at Graun Towers. We need a progressive liberal news out-fit in this country because there is none now. Its probably because tories hire tories, from the BBC, right down through Fleet street. And then all the awful local rags up here do the exact same, hoping to get noticed and hired. As all the Severin MacSpanner types want to get to the BBC trough, like Katz and that pretty boy that keeps fluffing his Newsnight lines. You’d have thought in such a saturated market, Graun would be looking for that leftie readership money. Maybe they believe they actually are, which is rather terrifying. Maybe British lefties don’t have enough money for the ABC 1 advertising bucks. We’ll never know.

      Its like Labour and JC. Why did they not just give Corbyn a clear shot? He’s got massive CLP backing, He’s not going to be around for ever and he’s probably not a trot either. Instead, Lab’s just gone red tory mental at the exact moment in teamGB history that’s screaming for full on leftie opposition.

      Either way, facts really are not sacred:D

    134. Tam Jardine says:

      Rock

      Agree 100%. The guardian is more despicable as it parades itself as the voice of modern, progressive uk. England is taking their own sweet time waking up to the media but they will get there in the end.

      Mind you- the express and mail are not really newspapers in the conventional sense- they don’t report news. They print a combination of tawdry salacious tittle tattle and raw propaganda. The mail and the express in particular is a racist pamphlet designed to promote hatred.

      It amazes me that in the 21st century such things exist.

      And now the venom is interactive. They should be closed down for promoting racial hatred- end of.

    135. Valerie says:

      So, discussions on Brexit, or strategy need to be secret? Or, as Angus showed this afternoon the Tories haven’t a fecking clue.

      Another unedifying ragging of Carney by that nasty horror, Rhys-Mogg. I swear the temperature drops considerably, when he appears.

      Another sight that made me shiver, and worries me. BoJo hosting the official Syrian opposition, that’s our friends in Saud etc.

      They demand, among other things, that Assad stands aside, and there will be elections. That will be to allow the sock puppets to stand. Never mind the globally monitored elections in April this year that overwhelmingly returned Assad.

      In short, UK can’t plan for Brexit, but can organise to overthrow, step up war, and work with several other countries in this endeavour.

      Wars run on oil and arms. Increased oil requirements drive up the price. This is nice for the UK, as well as Saudi. UK supplies arms to Saudi to murder unchecked in Yemen and Syria. Today, Clinton has called for an escalation in Syria. It’s being co coordinated.

      The UK is in financial dire straits, the LSE, are still saying the end of the year will show the true direction of the economy, despite the BBC telling us about a post Brexit boom.

      What makes us valuable to WM? That’s rhetorical, but can you see where this is going?

    136. Tam Jardine says:

      heedtracker

      The PLP could have dragged Corbyn slightly closer to the centre if they had given it a chance- instead they spat the dummy and left Corbyn to populate his shadow cabinet with like-minded individuals.

      Risible. So many people just hate democracy. Hatred of democracy is the driving force in UK politics. They get a vote to leave the EU and now they’re like ” but what does brexit mean”. The labour members elect a leader and the party try to destroy him. Scotland votes to remain in the EU and it is treated as an aberration to be ignored.

      They hate referendums- the people have a chance to vote on something and they do all they can to skew the result, even to the extent that the result is illegitimate. The first chance in 300 years for the Scottish people to vote on the union and they destroy it by making it a vote on devomax (which is quickly shelved). Then they tell us we have to wait 25 years before we have another.

      I have a good idea for a new referendum: “would you like the UK to become a democracy?”

    137. Clootie says:

      A reminder for the “proud Scot…but” who may visit this site
      http://www.scottish-at-heart.com/flag-of-scotland.html

      I have read several articles recently refer to flags as only a piece of cloth. Flags don’t matter. I disagree – the flag represents a nation,it’s people and their values.
      One day this flag will fly at the UNHQ. It will convey a very different set of values to that of the butchers apron.

      It is not a piece of cloth anymore than the American Declaration of Independence is a piece of paper.

      When we are Independent WE will determine what OUR Scotland will stand for. Do not let people dismiss YOUR flag in this manner.
      When you look at the flags of Sweden / Switzerland / Iceland / Canada and others you have a very different message from looking at the butchers apron / the Stars & Stripes / Russia etc

    138. Kevin McKenna, in today’s National. (I know that you read Wings avidly, Kevin)
      That’s more like it ,young McKenna.
      I loved :”Thus the two grandest political offices of the British state are being hawked around Britain’s boardrooms and private golf clubs like dancing monkeys in a Baghdad souk. Now we know what Ms May really meant to say on the steps of Number 10 that sunny July day.”
      Just short of brilliant, my lad. No more Mr Nice Guy.
      It is time to hold Scottish Tories to account for the UK Austerity Cuts.And the Red and Yellow Tories, who backed Osborne’s £30 billion in cuts.
      They are all Tories, and believe in a privileged hierarchy.
      All the pish about cutting attainment gaps, and cutting taxes for the rich to attract inward investment and growth, is just so much poisonous insincere piffle.

    139. Tinto Chiel says:

      Re ronnie anderson’s Annan Anecdote: “I don’t believe in independence”.

      Imagine you’re at a party. You get talking to this forty-something guy who tells you he’s in IT and making a lot of money. Then he tells you he’s still living at home with his parents and gives them all his salary. In return he is given whatever money they see fit. “That’s fine by me. You see, I don’t believe in independence,” he beams.

      You quickly find an excuse to get away from this pathetic and irresponsible character, shaking your head in disbelief as you get Taylor Swift another drink.

      Sound familiar, No voters? Still Proud Scots?

    140. Rock says:

      Tam Jardine,

      “The guardian is more despicable as it parades itself as the voice of modern, progressive uk.”

      Yes, with war mongerers like Toynbee and Cohen and utter liars like Carrell. They only need to take the Mail’s racist, hatemongerer Melanie Phillips, hero of Norwegian right wing terrorist Breivik, on board now.

      Like the Labour party, Scots can see right them but not the “liberal” English yet because there are no “liberal” English.

    141. Tam Jardine says:

      Valerie

      In our ain backyard we have a phone in that is so clearly propaganda that you would have to be an imbecile not to see it.

      There is a world war waging between governments and populations. Between the elite and the people. And the weapons deployed are cluster bombs, Paveways, Brimstones, gas, newspapers, television, radio and the internet.

      I’m okay about deploying a few stickers as part of our retaliation.

    142. liz says:

      @Tam Jardine – there was a great thread on twitter with @SpecPartAGLtd and Blair McD, where Blair was taught an economic lesson re GERS.

      Also input from Dr Craig Dalyell.

      https://twitter.com/SpecPartAGLtd/status/773069120334073856

      @heedtracker – I got modded off the Graun for being mildly sarcastic to one poster re his incorrect info but as you know they allow all sorts of nonsense to be published.

      I just now target Sev on twitter instead, surprised he hasn’t blocked me.

    143. Liz g says:

      Jist a wee head’s up to those talking about a bill board poster showing the back of a fag packet image.
      Please remember that we are not allowed to view actual fag packets anymore.
      So before you spend any funds,you might want to find out if the current law’s would allow for it to be removed,even if the advertising companies accepted it.
      Especially if there was a complaint,which there is sure to be.

    144. Macart says:

      @Heed

      They’ve always been establishment centrist, or metrocentric, to be sure Heed, but the standard of below the line comment pre indyref tended more toward reasonably well behaved and thoughtful debate.

      When the union were confident of an overwhelming victory the debate, by and large, was still fairly good natured and the commentary at worst simply condescending. How and ever the closer those polls came together the nature of the commentary, moderation, btl posts and overall tone of the title changed markedly.

      The title polarized and not in a good way. Folk like Dorice, Dads, Tenthred, Gizzit, KK and host of others were being drowned out and indeed modded out of existence whilst openly racist and hostile pro union commentary were allowed near free rein. It soon changed again where even the thought of the term ‘union’ became corrupted btl. There was no pretence that what we existed within even approached a union by any normal definition.

      There is no ‘union’ and hasn’t been for some considerable time in the minds of most posters on that site. To be fair, the London titles today don’t even make the pretence anymore. A glance at any front page throughout the indyref and GE campaigns and right up to this very day confirms what constitutes the meeja’s idea of ‘union’.

      We live in that barbarous parochial northern region known as ‘Shutupandeatyourcerealand’.

    145. Breeks says:

      @ ScotsRenewables 12:55

      I’m hearing you loud and clear.

      I myself have four pet concerns.

      I’m concerned at the lack of focus on recruiting staunch pro-euro voters who aren’t totally enamoured by the SNP. Where can these folks apply their talents and best efforts to maximum effect? They need a wheel behind which to put their shoulder. They shouldn’t have to drink from the SNP cup as a prerequisite to their electing to stay in Europe. Their vote is what will count, and we should strive to make YES as easy and comfortable as we can. We know the SNP option will be the only option in town, but we should give these folks space and time to get used to it. There are Labour, Tory, and Lib Dem supporters of Indy, and remaining in the EU. Let’s leave them space in the Venn diagram to stay Labour, Tory, or Lib Dem, or whatever other persuasion they have, yet still be able to put their “X” in the right box when it matters. We don’t have to force them to confront their traditional antipathy to the SNP as a prerequisite of keeping faith with Europe. A certain Ms Rowling springs to mind. She doesn’t need battered senseless with a wet fish until she swears undying allegiance to the SNP. Voting YES, and encouraging others to do likewise will more than suffice. I only use her as an example.

      Second, I think the issue of sovereignty and our capacity to declare a UDI is being underplayed and widely misunderstood. I’m not advocating a UDI, (although I’m not hostile to it either), but I believe it strengthens our hand immeasurably to make sure Westminster and our own electorate fully understand all possible options, and in particular, that they are fully literate with the vitally important matter of Scotland’s historic sovereignty. Our popular sovereignty gives Scotland the last word over our dealings with Westminster. I find it incredible at this stage of our constitutional reinvention that so much ambiguity and grey uncertainty exists about the predicament of our current sovereignty. There is no excuse for this. It is the vital essence at the heart of our constitutional status. We all know what we want, but have a truly dismal collective appreciation of what we already have.

      Thirdly, I fear we are all too quiet about ramifications of leaving Europe. I cannot think of any business sector, social sector, educational sector, research and development sector, manufacturing sector, food and drink sector or any other sector for whom Brexit is going to auger in better times. Quite the reverse. If Brexit drags Scotland out of Europe, we are going to feel as though we have been mugged as we adjust to all the things we now take for granted but which disappear once outside of the EU. “Wait and see”, is the preserve of nervous Brexiteers in South Britain. They do not have a parachute. For the time being, we do.

      Fourth? No prizes for guessing. The mainstream media and our daily dose of BBC neurotoxin. Every pro Indy and pro European spokesperson invited to appear on the media should be briefed thoroughly on the tactics and unwritten agendas they are sure to encounter, and be equally well drilled, focussed and disciplined about getting their agenda across and fixed in the mind of the listener / viewer. Carry cue cards if it helps. Scribble cribs on your wrists if need be. Do your homework and be prepared for the grilling.

    146. CameronB Brodie says:

      @ Severin Carrell
      In falsely reporting reality, you betray your British nationalist agenda. What make you think there is any virtue in attempting to deny the Scots their “Right to Development”? Carrying on the metropolitan tradition of colonial enslavement is not a moral position!

      @ Church of Scotland
      Do you really mean to side with the Chuch of England and Westminster?

    147. call me dave says:

      Scotland’s exclusion from a new visa scheme ‘could hasten break-up of UK’

      https://archive.is/U4i7S

    148. Valerie says:

      @call me Dave 8.04

      WTF? That’s a disgrace.

      I hope that one will be called out from the rooftops.

      When will Unionists admit we are just one huge toilet up here?

    149. Jamur says:

      I’m with proud cybernat and Ian Brothehood.

      The BBC must be challenged.

      Daily waves of toxic pish is bad for your health folks.
      Lets get about them…..

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

    150. X_Sticks says:

      @G4jeepers

      “Anyone got the link to the crowdfunder for the lassie who climbed up the front of Edinburgh castle?”

      Nana put one up yesterday. The appeal is already over target, but don’t let that stop you 😉

      https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/norrie-hunter?utm_id=66&utm_term=DM5GQY3P4

      Speaking of appeals – I see the NYR IndyApp is nearly there – only £466 to go. Well done folks, I doff my hat to you all.

      Now, I hope you have all renewed your subscriptions to iScot magazine – or are considering a sub if you haven’t got one – they’re giving away a free quality (real leather) Scottish passport holder! Get in there 😉

    151. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Everyone has their favoured manner of dealing with a variety of indy-related debates as and when they arise across a wide variety of social situations.

      I’m so fed-up with the regurgitated MSM bollocks, and so impatient, that I no longer even try to memorise stats from the WBBs, or cite this or that interview with prominent BTUKOK liars. I’ve noticed, just very recently, that I’m getting very close to losing my temper if I even overhear a typical Yoon discussion which refers to ‘that Aleksammin’ and ‘that Sturgeon wummin’. No-one would ever guess that these eejits actually ‘won’, and got what they wanted.

      Now I just say, ‘Scotland’s going to be an independent nation. Again. Nothing you or I can say or do is going to change that, so let’s discuss something else, eh?’

    152. HandandShrimp says:

      Hi Kendo

      Thanks for getting back to me. I had a gut feeling that I had jumped the gun. Today two copies arrived. I may have jumped the gun on the subscription renewal too.

      Hey Ho 🙂

    153. Iain says:

      I’ve been diagnosed with kidney cancer. I’m told I’ll be operated on by a robot in a state of the art hospital built by the Scottish government, by a leading surgeon who is the best in his field. I’ve been scanned with some of the best machines in the world by dedicated staff. If anyone tells you that the Nhs in Scotland is shite, take it from me they are talking shit. Maybe we are not too wee, too poor, after all.

    154. Petra says:

      Another wee snippet of information …. reminder to those who say that the Scots are ‘whinging financial liabilities’. Looks as though Scotland is keeping their lights on and may, if we choose to, ‘put their lights out’ when we get our Independence.

      Bill Bennett (Denny) in The National – ‘Power to the English: It’s they who need to import our electricity.’

      Clark Cross’s claim that “Scotland regularly imports ‘tainted’ English electricity” (Letters, August 1) reminded me of a similar statement on Radio Scotland in February 2015, that stated: “Scotland doesn’t have enough energy to cover its needs and is importing power from the rest of the UK one day in every four.”

      As an independence campaigner I was well aware of the BBC’s record on veracity in connection with most things Scottish so I decided to check it out. I went on to the Department of Energy & Climate Change (DECC) website and found and article entitled Energy Trends December 2015 – Electricity Generated in Scotland”.

      The percentages for electricity generation were nuclear 33.3 per cent, renewables 38 per cent, coal 20.3 per cent and gas/oil 8.4 per cent. In addition, the DECC says: “Scotland required only 76.3 per cent of the electricity generated there and exported 23.7 per cent to consumers in the rest of the UK.”

      So even if we factor in the loss of Longannet’s 20.3 per cent coal contribution following its closure, Scotland still produces more electricity than it needs. The DECC also stated: “England is a net importer of electricity from Scotland and from continental Europe. Net imports from France were at a record high 15.0 TWh (terawatt hours), while net imports from The Netherlands were 7.9TWh, also a record high.”

      Accessing the web page ‘Energy in Scotland 2016 – Key Facts’, I found that the total gas field that came onstream in February 2016 can supply 100 per cent of Scotland’s gas needs while existing gas fields currently over-supply our gas needs by more than 400 per cent. Also in 2015, Scotland produced 18,700 tonnes (oil equivalent) of offshore gas of which 4,600 tonnes were used here with 14,100 tonnes being exported to England.

      These energy exporting statistics seem pretty impressive for a country that “doesn’t have enough energy to cover its needs”.

      Interestingly, 40 per cent of rUK gas need comes from the Norwegian Sleipner field via the largest undersea pipeline in the world which Scottish taxpayers are paying for pro rata although we use/need none of this gas. No doubt this is classed as Scottish expenditure in the GERS data.

      Mr Cross claims “Scotland’s energy policy of wind turbines has failed.” Wind turbine generation plays a key role in the renewables sector which produced 57.7 per cent of Scotland’s electricity in 2015 and employs 21,000 people in in this country. Some failure.

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/letters-ii-power-to-the-english-its-they-who-need-to-import-our-electricity.20744

    155. Robert Louis says:

      Seems the SNP in Edinburgh are having an open air ‘do’ to celebrate Scotland and the EU on (I think) Sunday 11th Sept (this week), at Bruntsfield links (by the meadows), in the afternoon.

      Maybe some other folks have more info??

      I do know Alyn Smith and Tommy Shepherd will be speaking, plus there will be music etc… Just like the indy campaign all over again. I’m pretty sure it’ll be free, and open to everyone.

      Anybody got more info?

    156. TheItalianJob says:

      At Ian Brotherhood.

      I lost it at the weekend when a friend brought up the crap ref GERs deficit.

      My stomach and anger had already hit a previous discussion on the unelected HOL when the same person tried to justify its existence as it stands i.e. unelected chamber only second to the Chinese politburo.

      I wouldn’t have had to put up with this pish if only we Scots had voted for Indy in 2014.

      Please let Independence happen.

    157. Graeme Doig says:

      Scotsrenewables

      Not sure having two rallys in one weekend is going to ensure big numbers. I was only aware of the one on the 18th.

      I really can’t see folk with families, work, other commitments managing to get through to Glasgow on a regular basis no matter how angry/passionate they are.

      Organisers of these rallys need to communicate with each other. Too many will result in rally fatigue (just defined a new syndrome)

    158. Lekraw says:

      It’s fair to say the coverage in the MSM has been, well, pretty desperate, but what’s new.

      Am I imagining things though when I detect a subtle shift in Sturgeon’s language?

      In June it was about protecting our place in the EU. Now it’s about protecting our place in the single market.

      Has she conceded that we will be leaving the EU and that that alone would not be grounds for indyref 2?

    159. Petra says:

      @ Call me dave says at 8:04 pm …. ”Scotland’s exclusion from a new visa scheme ‘could hasten break-up of UK’”

      https://archive.is/U4i7S

      @ Valerie says at 8:16 pm … ”WTF? That’s a disgrace. I hope that one will be called out from the rooftops. When will Unionists admit we are just one huge toilet up here?”

      Valerie this was rolled out a few weeks / months ago (June / July?) and was one of the issues that the Brain Family and their SNP MP was complaining about. Adding insult to injury.

      Toilet? Westminster doesn’t give a sh*t rather just carry on rubbing our noses in it … sh*t.

      ………………………………….

      @ Iain says at 8:42 pm … ”I’ve been diagnosed with kidney cancer.”

      I’m sending my best wishes to you Iain for a full and speedy recovery x

    160. Robert Louis says:

      The article linked below from the oddly title ‘independent’ newspaper, is an interesting wee read, detailing the way house pricing in London areas will be increased by the many infrastructure projects going on. When I read it, all I could think was, are Scots taxpayers part funding all these rail/tube building projects in London?

      LINK :http://archive.is/5ssF0

      Does anybody know? are Scots taxes being used for these projects?

    161. Fran says:

      @ Iain

      Your in good hands buddy, all the best

    162. call me dave says:

      @Iain

      I am sorry to hear that your not well. Wishing you all the best.

      I agree with you the SNHS is all right.

      PS:

      On my second packet of ‘sweet & salt’ popcorn watching Murray.
      Geez! It’s a hard fecht!

      There’s a touch of the Lazarus about Nishikori!

      http://neolive.net/59722/1/Watch-US-Open—Arthur-Ashe-Stadium/

      If you dare 🙁

    163. Iain says:

      Thanks for your kindness, I hope to recover and see Scotland a nation again. We are fortunate that we have the government we have in Edinburgh. At least they see the need of the people of Scotland, unlike the previous Labour administration that could not think of anything to spend £1.3 billion on. The new southern general cost £1.3 billion.

    164. heedtracker says:

      Macart

      liz

      Graun’s greatest triumph as a British propagandist, led by BBC Scotland in particular, has been to the ability to convince enough Scots that there’s not really that much at all to Scotland, that it is a mere region. They’ve done this for decades and its worked to the extent that Scots have just seemed to accept the horrifying loss of a once giant heavy industry for example. Its the British way, natural, how it goes, oh well, England will fiscal share and we’ll be fine because we’re British, proud Scottish too, but British is big and strong and mighty and really clever, it must be Sevrin McSpanner says so.

    165. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Robert Louise@8.58

      O/T

      Yes there is an event at Bruntsfield Links, Edinburgh, this coming Sunday, 12-4.30, speakers and stuff, re Scotland and the EU. It sounds good, I hope to get to that.

    166. Artyhetty says:

      re;Petra@8.57

      Certainly interesting, Scotland as we know has plenty of resources to keep the lights on. However, england has the switch, ie they control the ‘national grid’. Anyone remember the unexplained, even to this day, blackouts, power cuts up North, a couple of rather major ones, pre indy ref? It seemed like something from outer space must have hit the power lines, aye right.

    167. carjamtic says:

      IB @ 8:37

      I used to be the same,the rage,but since dropping in here,I simply infer that the ‘insulter’ does the same as me,visit WoS to learn about stuff and upgrade their basic mental apparatus.

      On here,you get to feel things,visit places,read about subjects you would never otherwise know,you learn that everyone else out there is a me,as well.

      You learn about new ideas,the language of politics,the jargon (the shite) and after a while you become more savvy on lots of diverse subjects,not a true expert of course,but a smarter consumer of the world’s information.

      That’s maybe why wingers are more on the ball,because they put in the effort,although on occasion I do enjoy insulting certain individuals…kindobber….bawbag….fannybaws…usual terms of endearment that just pop out,as if from nowhere,even when the ‘safety’ is on.

      Next challenge,The Secret Life of Pro-Nouns.

      😉

    168. McDuff says:

      Iain
      Get well soon mate.

    169. Lochside says:

      Petra @ 8.57…Bravo!…great bit of research…..another Billboard filler perhaps?

    170. Petra @8.57. Good delving into the energy lies from the dutiful Unioinst MSM. We need to question every word from now on in.
      Every breath they take, I’ll be watching you, must be our tactic from now on.

    171. louis.b.argyll says:

      Yoonerati..lol.

    172. Stoker says:

      Iain (@ 8:42pm)
      I hope your recovery is a fast one, you’ve got a cause to fight for and we need all the troops we can get. Get well soon mucker!
      _____

      Another £145 will get us to the halfway stage Wingers!
      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

    173. Proud Cybernat says:

      Signing it how it is…

      http://imgur.com/a/Qc4y5

    174. Still Positive. says:

      Iain

      Sorry to hear your news but be assured the SHNS is second to none, at all levels, when treating cancer – I speak as a very grateful survivor.

      All the best.

    175. galamcennalath says:

      Saying the SNP should shelf its quest for Scottish independence is a bit like saying the Conservative and Unionist Party should give up its fanatical British nationalism !

    176. K8ie says:

      How others see us: from Sputnik News.

      “It did not take long for Britain’s first post-Brexit prime minister, Theresa May, to be left in no doubt that the country she leads is not the first tier power it long liked to think of itself, but is in reality a second tier power of declining importance.”

      https://sputniknews.com/analysis/20160907/1045047968/g20-britain-status-decline.html

    177. davidb says:

      And the latest mince from the Yoon media is that Scotland will have too choose a free UK or EU market.

      What exactly do we export to and import from England? What goods do we import that we will be able to buy directly from the EU suppliers bypassing English merchants? Will the rUK stop buying Whisky or oil? We already know that much that is exported south is re-exported. How much of what Scotland “exports” to rUK is sensitive to tariffs?

      Lies, damned lies and statistics.

    178. heedtracker says:

      Don’t go to bed with a frown

      Voting intentions if General Election held tomorrow – Lord Ashcroft poll.
      SNP – 54%
      Tory – 21%
      Labour – 15%
      LD – 5%
      Green – 2%
      UKIP – 3%

      Also UKOK mental today, Dugdale explaining SLabour are autonomous, from what though, Scottish electorate:D

      No doubt Sevrin McSpanner will be explain these polls to us tomorrow.

    179. Lenny Hartley says:

      Iain all the best with your op and hope you have a speedy recovery. I spent just under six weeks in the new southern general last summer, I tried out most of the faculties including two different high dependency wards , over a week in critical care, can’t remember much about that dept being on life support. And two different general wards in which you have your own ensuite room with free wifi and entertainment system. The food wasn’t bad either, all the staff were first class and the Surgeon’s world class, if it was not for an Iraqi surgeon rushing in to operate on me on a Sunday I would not be here.

      Yet the BBC spent most of last summer saying what a disaster the place was, certainly opened up a few eyes in my family on the BBC’s lies. In short it’s a world class facility and not a PFI contract in sight. I have said it before and will say it again if it wasn’t for the brilliance of John Swinney and Nicola Sturgeon and the Staff at the new Southern General I would not be here, my niece who runs a hospital told me that if I was anywhere else I would probably have not made it. So all the best and be confident that you are being looked after by the best in the business in one of the best equipped Hospitals in the World.

    180. Valerie says:

      @Iain
      Every good wish for your operation and recovery. We have one of the best health services in the world. Scotland is a centre of excellence for cancer, and its why we attract so many high calibre doctors at high levels.

      You really are in the best place. I hope you get all the support you need, via MacMillan, or other. It does help too.

      Best wishes

    181. Still Positive. says:

      Iain,

      I would also suggest you make the most of the Maggie’s Centres and of Cancer Support at the Calman Centre both in the grounds of Gartnavel Hospital.

    182. Chic McGregor says:

      galamcennalath

      For once we disagree.

      Scottish nationalism and the British Nationalism of the Tories (Blue or Red) is not just different – they are opposites in character.

      Iain sorry to here your health issue, hope you get better soon.

    183. yesindyref2 says:

      With Indy Ref 2 in the air, the constitutional experts are breaking out again, the Herald has a report of two of them, Keating and Murkens, and SCFF carries one from Mullen:

      http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/7387/Tom-Mullen-A-Tale-of-Two-Referendums.aspx

      Neil Wlaker has one on the UK and Brexit, but as far as I know hasn’t done one yet on Scotland, hopefully he will:

      http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/7183/Neil-Walker-In-Out-or-In-Between-Rebooting-Britain-in-Europe-after-the-Brexit-Referendum.aspx

    184. Grouse Beater says:

      Iain: “Maybe we are not too wee, too poor, after all.”

      We sure as hell are not.

      Stay strong, haste ye back.

    185. yesindyref2 says:

      Walker not Wlaker. I don’t think I’m dyslexic, but my fingers do.

    186. yesindyref2 says:

      BBC4 at 1 am – Clydebuilt – series of 4, I’m recording it!

    187. Liz g says:

      Iain
      Will you and your’s please keep us updated (without compromising your privacy ofcourse) as how you are getting on.
      Best wishes and all our love.
      Most of all you are needed, “that” nation struggling for her identity ” our ” Scotland needs all of her son’s and she needs them now.
      So take care of you and haste ye back tae the campaign.
      Love XXX

    188. manandboy says:

      May I add my best wishes to you Iain, for a full and speedy recovery.

    189. mealer says:

      Iain,
      good luck.

      I think we have a very good Scottish National Health Service and I’m sick of hearing the state broadcaster talking it down all the time.

    190. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Lollysmum Wellcome back to the land of your birth, mind come to the Wings stall to meet the Wingers & if you want to spend some time behind the sales desks (see the management) whoever they are (plenty Wingers te choose from) lol.

    191. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Iain Sorry to hear of your condition .As someone who experianced the auld Southern Gen & the treatment I received by quality staff im sure your in safe hands. I wish you & your
      Family all the best & get back online as soon as possible.

    192. louis.b.argyll says:

      To Ian and others who may be under the weather, feel better, knowing your communities are with you, all the way.

    193. Marie Clark says:

      Iain, I wish you all the best, and the Scottish NHS is a safe pair of hands. Get well soon.

    194. Macart says:

      @!ain

      Couldn’t agree more and wishing you all the very best.

    195. Ken500 says:

      Next is to get rid of the Unionist/Green councils, May, 2017. That is really important. They are wasting £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money on grotesque projects without any value and not committing their statute duty and funding on essential services, Education, social care roads etc. Which are suppose to be their mandate. Cutting essential important for the communitity services and irresponsible spending on groteque projects the majority do not agree with. Not listening to the electorate (as usual) Outwith their mandate and ignoring the instruction of the Scottish Gov. Even when the funding is ring fenced. Acting illegally with impunity. Censored time and time again but just getting away with it. Breaking public office Code and acting illegally.

      SNP/SNP to take control off the Council and get the excess spending and debt under control and maintain the essential properly run public services. The funding is adequately provided. Education, social care, maintenance of roads, potholes, community projects etc. These are being neglected by Unionist/Green councils acting illegally and overspending public money and borrowing without a mandate. Against the majority wishes and the public interest on grotesque projects with little value. They then claim their is no money for essential public services on which they, illegally, cut funding.

      May 2017 SNP/SNP. No diversion. Do not waste or dilute or devalue the vote. It is really important to maintain communities.

    196. sinky says:

      Radio Scotland? Focus on English students at St Andrews follwed by Call Kaye on English education dress code.

    197. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      On the subject of The Asset Stripping Of Scotland – if as seems likely our colonial masters close down and sell off Fort George and Kinloss can anybody hazard a guess as to the destination of the proceeds of the sales.

      I am still amazed that the most monstrous instance of Asset Stripping has not been jumped on and highlighted – namely the fact that 100% of the proceeds of Council House Sales, which must be billions, went straight to WM instead of being retained by the councils to build new houses for rent.

    198. Fireproofjim says:

      Lollysmum.
      Welcome back, we need committed people like you.
      OMG, just thought. There may be a residency qualification of a year or two for the next referendum.
      Anyway, we are glad you are back.

    199. Nana says:

      @Iain

      Very sorry to read your post at 8.42pm. Wishing you all the very best through this worrying time.

    200. Xaracen says:

      @Petra, I have a recollection of a Wings article from a few years ago, that the UK raised the tariff on gas to help English gas consumers pay for the expensive Sleipner gas they import, via a pipeline that comes ashore in England into a gas network that has no interconnect with the Scottish gas network, with the effect that we in Scotland are paying well over the odds for our own gas, solely to subsidise English consumers of a gas supply we not only do not need, but cannot even access.

      Of course, it may be the case that an interconnect does now exist, but it seems grossly unfair that we Scots have our own cheap gas made more expensive to us just to subsidise our English neighbours.

      Makes an utter travesty of the point of “market competition”, doesn’t it.

    201. Valerie says:

      Very good, readable piece by an American economist based in International trade.

      The examples of complexity really make you see just how long the fiasco will continue. I really do wonder, given the potential for serious damage, if the Tories will see this out. I know Labour are not an option, but when the country starts to sink, they may be in with a shout by default.

      http://archive.is/mJEw0

    202. Ken500 says:

      Listening to programmes just perpetuates them and gives them credence.

      25% of Scottish pupils go to Uni in Scotland 20% mature students (from deprived backgrounds?) 15% EU students (reciprocal agreements) ?% foreign students they pay the full whack. The rest wealthy students from elsewhere getting a Uni education subsidy see by Scottish taxpayers,

      Universities admissions are ignores Scottish qualifications for certification from elsewhere ‘A’ levels etc from a different education system. Not higher but different. A different based system. Scotland’s more diversified for choice. Scottish students should be the main priority.

      The University sector is awash with cash according to those who work in University Estate. University extravagance, Glass libraries overlooking a community with food banks. There is an argument for cutting higher education funding and increasing the early important years. To get more Scottish students into University, The Labour/Unionist were means testing student loans on average household incomes. So students from households of average income could not get a full student loan for Uni, and could not go to Uni. That has been changed but has not worked it’s way through the figures yet. Back dated figures.

      Do not be fool by University propaganda. Principal generous salaries, creating empires. The Scottish education system is one of the best in the world. There would be no trouble incorporating students from deprived backgrounds. (Minority). It would be wealthy students from elsewhere who should be displace with dubious qualifications who are acquiring a subsidised education in Scotland. No loss and a balanced balance sheet.

    203. Ken500 says:

      Special needs training should be given to all teachers in Scotland. incorporating modules in all teacher training in Scotland as a priority. To benefit, facilitate and encourage all pupils. Simple measures so pupils can reach their full potential.

      Classroom numbers are increasing because Councils are not spending the money prioritised and allocated on education and essential public services. Instead spending £Million/Billions of funds on grotesque projects and incumulating debt outwith their remit and mandate. Breaking the Council Code of Conduct and acting fraudulently, with impunity. Despite repeated censor. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      May 2017 SNP/SNP.

    204. Effijy says:

      On the subject of The Asset Stripping Of Scotland – if as seems likely our colonial masters close down and sell off Fort George and Kinloss can anybody hazard a guess as to the destination of the proceeds of the sales.

      I suggest SNP declare that any such sales make from here on in will be Null and Void as these lands are Scottish and not for Westminster Profits.

      Scottish people before Sycophantic Parasites!

      Sovereignty, justice, freedom

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Look at the photo the Herald uses ….

      http://archive.is/gwRRb

      …. they never miss a trick 🙁

      The article is nonsense. Begins …

      “NICOLA Sturgeon has been challenged to set out the terms of the UK Brexit deal that would persuade her to abandon plans for a second independence referendum.”

      … but says in the final paragraph …

      “The First Minister has set out an ambitious wishlist of five key demands she would like to see in any post-Brexit deal”

      … so, challenge delivered, weeks ago. What exactly was the point of the article?

    206. Proud Cybernat says:

      The low turnout…

      http://imgur.com/a/x3lUY

    207. galamcennalath says:

      A well reasoned letter about IndyRef2, Brexit and Torrance in the Herald …

      http://archive.is/g4M3H

    208. Proud Cybernat says:

      The riot act…

      http://imgur.com/a/XNMf3

    209. Chic McGregor says:

      Proud Cybernat

      Oh dear. Inadvertent double negative in the picture caption.

    210. Ken500 says:

      People in Scotland pay a higher cost for fuel and energy. Despite being nearer the source and in surplus. Scotland pays unwarranted higher transport cost. It is colder. The energy companies were going to charge according to location to source, This would have increased parity. Westminster would not let them.

      Scotland is paying disproportionately higher to load energy on to the Grid. The. Tories have banned coal production and CCS.despite being plentiful in the UK. Now more fuel, energy and coal has to be imported in the rest of the UK which Scottish consumers underwrite. It has not been fully established (incomplete accounts) how much fuel and energy Westminster are taking out of Scotland with no recompense. (£Billions?).

      The Tories banned wind turbines in England and reduced investments in renewables and solar. They intend overspending £Billions on Nuclear in England with major borrowing for unwarranted benefit. The cost out-ways the benefit. The most costly dirty and dangerous. They are flying nuclear waste around the world. The Tories have destroyed the Oil and Gas sector with excessive taxes when the price had fallen, There is now more Oil and Gas being imported to make up the Deficit. More expense. More debt. A delusional, incoherent energy policy.

    211. dakk says:

      Iain

      Hope you have a full quick recovery my friend.

    212. Ken500 says:

      Torrance and the Herald are contributing to their own demise. Incoherent. Disappearing into the ether. A Gas of hot air.

    213. Marcia says:

      Iain,

      I’m sorry to read of your diagnoses. Get well very soon.

    214. cearc says:

      Valerie, @9.46

      Relevant to that piece is this comment from below http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/david-davis-muddled-understanding-of-trade-policy/

      Kim Spence-Jones September 7, 2016 at 6:10 pm – Reply

      I remember a time in the 1970s as owner of an SME selling high-value electronics to the educational sector, we were legally obligated to produce a full set of French-language manuals to sell a single unit in France. Even though our customer spoke fluent English. At a time when we were selling a few tens of units a year worldwide, this was far more of a disincentive to export than was giving away ten or twenty percent of our margin.

      More recently, I was involved with a company selling low-value electronic gadgets with a worldwide market, but we had to take the decision to sell only in certain territories because the cost of EMC compliance testing for many countries would far outweigh any extra profit we could hope to make. At least we had ‘free’ access to the entire half-billion market of the EU once we launched in the UK.

      For SMEs non-tarriff barriers are far more of a limit to growth than tarriffs. It’s easy to manage the cost of taxes and duties incurred per-item. It’s often impossible to finance compliance testing and other NTBs to enter a foreign market.

      A true single market is so much more important than a mere customs union.

    215. galamcennalath says:

      Telegraph. SNP Bad, very Bad, of course.

      “Independent Scotland ‘could not have free trade with both UK and EU’ if hard Brexit”

      Which might be true. However, Ireland and Spain will veto any EU deal if it does not allow open borders with Northern Ireland and Gibraltar respectively. So if such openness is probably for those, it would seem reasonable to expect the same arrangements for Scotland.

      The EU will put its own interests first, and that of course includes Ireland and Spain. Hopefully, it will include Scotland too.

      Of course, Telegraph hacks aren’t sophisticated enough to contemplate a world beyond the ‘green and pleasant land’.

      http://archive.is/ux5Nq

    216. Marcia says:

      It is getting to be a bit amusing and also a bit tedious too reading about all those Unionist who go on and on and on about Independence.

      A citizen’s all party and no party Yes umbrella Group equivalent to Yes Scotland needs to be set up quickly and be the focus of the Independence where the SNP is only a part of the campaign. Some serious fundraising should be started now and not in the future. I’ve set up my own piggy bank where all loose change goes into.

    217. Bob Mack says:

      @Iain,
      Your in the best hands in the UK if not the world. My very best wishes go to you and hurry back. We need such as you in our corner.

    218. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      Heh, they’re in a pickle right enough and at some point PM May is going to have to have a proper sit down with the FM.

      Ms May can quite rightly remove the population of England and Wales (unsure about NI) from the EU, but she cannot remove the population of Scotland from the EU against their express wishes and the result in June was fairly conclusive.

      Two referendums with constitutionally incompatible results. Scotland may be part of the UK, but it is still recognised internationally as a country whose citizens have accrued 40yrs of EU rights and citizenship.

      There is only one certain way to resolve a constitutional issue which neither the current Scottish Government, nor the Scottish electorate, had any hand in creating and did not ask for.

      That is for the population of Scotland to make a third decision and instruct their government themselves. 🙂

    219. Proud Cybernat says:

      Still Deid…

      http://imgur.com/a/ILcBD

    220. Bob Mack says:

      I was reading a story posted on the Rev’s twitter feed Re Dean Saunders and Brian Clough. It was very good and came from the Guardian,
      However,what really caught my eye was the “begging” letter posted at the end ,about the Guardians falling revenues and the need for contributions to allow them to carry on. I have never seen this before. Interesting.

    221. Legerwood says:

      Bob Mack @ 11.24 am

      The begging add from the Guardian have been popping up for some time now but seem to be increasing in frequency.

    222. Alastair Wright says:

      I wish Unionists would stop prattling on about the union and get on with the day job.

    223. Sharny Dubs says:

      Without exception in all my dealings with the UK press I have been miss-quoted, miss-represented, manipulated, cajoled, or just completely ignored (if what I said did not suite them), all in the name of selling newspapers or following the “company line” as is dictated. That’s a pretty impressive score considering I’m over 60 and have had my fair share of exposure. Never forget that if you are dealing with these jobsworths.

    224. heedtracker says:

      The begging add from the Guardian have been popping up for some time now but seem to be increasing in frequency.

      Wish to god they would just go behind a pay wall like all the rest of the Daily Toryboy broadsheets.

      FT’s OK value though. That lot despise and detest everything Scottish democracy but they dont prostrate themselves at the feet of like of Teresa Thatcher, like say BBC gimps.

      September 8, 2016 5:32 am
      Britain is falling into denial about Brexit

      “What was all the fuss about? The sun is still shining, the economy is growing and Scotland has not seceded. It is time for pro-European doomsters to admit it: Brexit was good for Britain. Now the world awaits its return as a truly “sovereign” nation. All that remains is for Theresa May’s government to step up the pace of negotiations in order to sever ties with Brussels sooner rather than later.”

      No matter. Hubristic denial is the order of the day. In any event, an argument about the immediate impact of the vote misses the point. The Brexiters now trumpeting a bright independent future see departure from the EU as an event. In truth it will be a long, tortuous process — a slow burn, if you like, with costs, economic and political, that will reach well into coming decades. To make such an obvious point is not to talk Britain down: the fact that things seem fine now says next to nothing about the consequences along the road.

      Mrs May was reminded of this as she cut a rather lonely figure in meetings with other leaders at the G20 gathering in Hangzhou. No, the US will not put Britain at the head of the queue for future trade deals. And yes, Japanese companies will step back from investing in the UK if the government takes it out of the EU single market. Allies and trading partners are at one in concluding Britain will be diminished by Brexit. A few kind words from the Australian government are scant consolation.

      To to be fair to Mrs May, word in Whitehall has it that she understands the scale and complexity of the challenge.”

      And so it goes. FT knows full well their “Scotland has not seceded” is just a bone thrown to their yoon tory reader, gets those thick cold UKOK juices flowing.

      Also, Morrison’s filled doughtnuts are back in UNION JACK boxes. Customer services lady is just as hot though:D

    225. Petra says:

      @ Valerie says at 9:46 am …. ”Very good, readable piece by an American economist based in International trade.”…… http://archive.is/mJEw0

      Really interesting Valerie. I also came across this:

      ”The most important task is for the UK to negotiate new terms with the other 27 member countries of the EU. This is not because of any legal imperative, but rather for basic economic reasons: roughly half of its trade is with the EU.”

      Individuals such as Gordon Brown and Ruth Davidson state that Scotland’s exports to the rest of UK are worth £48.5 billion compared with £11.6 billion to EU (roughly a quarter). This is no doubt going to be (started already) a key issue they’ll use to scaremonger (part two) followed by immigration.

      Anyway these figures don’t seem to equate that is, say, 50% of exports from the UK as a whole go to EU countries and yet Scotland’s exports account for only 20% to the EU.

      I wonder if what’s happening here is that Scotland is exporting to rUK and then our goods are in turn being exported to the EU?

      Additionally their argument (threat) doesn’t hold water for example would rUK stop trading with Scotland altogether and even if it did so, to some extent, would we not pick up some of their lost contracts to the EU? And then of course there’s the financial sector. Companies which may consider relocating to Scotland.

      A couple of EU videos:

      ‘The European Union Explained*’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O37yJBFRrfg

      ‘What are the alternatives if Britain leaves the EU?’

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bhLmx79DNA

    226. sinky says:

      No sign of the latest disastrous NHS England performance figures on BBC news website.

      What’s our share of the £4 billion to fix crumbling Houses of Parliament? Did Scottish Parliament costs all come from the devolved Scottish budget?’

    227. Valerie says:

      Just in case you missed it. Murdo Fraser, long with other Tories have been nominated for Herald Politicians of the year. There are SNP nominations too.

      Heed’s Slovene girlfriend has been nominated in the ‘one to watch’ category, no really, stop sniggering.

      Murdo has some good form on Twitter, even getting a rebuke from Kez last night.

      https://twitter.com/ValerieRooney1/status/773547534069489664

    228. Scotsrenewables says:

      The IndyApp made its Indiegogo funding target, from 23% to 102% in 12 hours. Well done us, let’s all download it and learn to use it as soon as it is released (est. 18 Sept)

      http://nationalyesregistry.scot/update-indyapp-release-strategy/

    229. Petra says:

      @ heedtracker says at 11:40 pm …. ”Don’t go to bed with a frown. Voting intentions if General Election held tomorrow – Lord Ashcroft poll.”

      SNP – 54%
      Tory – 21%
      Labour – 15%
      LD – 5%
      Green – 2%
      UKIP – 3%

      That’s GREAT news Heedtracker. I’ve been searching for the data but can’t find it. Do you have a link?

    230. Stoker says:

      Stick it in yer family, stick it in yer family, stick it in yer family….album! Almost half way to our target troops!
      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/peep-the-beeb#/

    231. dakk says:

      @ Heedtracker

      ‘Customer services lady is just as hot though:D’

      Careful with that kind of loose talk,lest a certain former republican stalinist dub you ‘my Lithuanian temptress’or some such.

    232. Proud Cybernat says:

      The truth mooth…

      http://imgur.com/a/XI26a

    233. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      “Brexit was good for Britain”

      That past tense again. These ‘quality’ papers treat their readers as utter fools. Which should be surprising, but nothing from the MSM surprises these days.

      Nothing of significance has actually happened yet!

      England has expressed the view, narrowly, that it wants Brexit. Nothing more.

    234. heedtracker says:

      dakk says:
      8 September, 2016 at 12:28 pm
      @ Heedtracker

      ‘Customer services lady is just as hot though:D’

      Its not fashionable in teamGEnglandB anymore but this vile separatist in particular is a huge believer in immigration, especially from Lithuania, and filled doungnuts. But I only get to pick 2 days a week.

    235. Vambomarbeley says:

      If memory serves me right. Parahandy, referred to himself as north British reflecting in a glow of empire.

    236. heedtracker says:

      SNP – 54%
      Tory – 21%
      Labour – 15%
      LD – 5%
      Green – 2%
      UKIP – 3%

      That’s GREAT news Heedtracker. I’ve been searching for the data but can’t find it. Do you have a link?

      Its all here Petra. It’s interesting watching one of teamGB’s finest tax dodgers in political action, here in blighty and the US currently. From a very rich toryboy tax evader, hiding his stash in British Honduras, to changing the face of UKOK toryboy politics and pig farming for ever.

      http://lordashcroftpolls.com/

    237. Chic McGregor says:

      Ken500

      Good post. Some additional points.

      England needs to net import about 10% of the electricity it consumes.

      About half of that comes from France and half from Scotland.

      Note that a significant scheduled downsize of France’s nuclear capacity puts continued import from there at risk.

      Amazingly, May seems to have seen the folly of Hinkley Point.

      However, I point out once again, that OFF shore wind generation is already about 50% more in cost of production per MWh than HP would be if it ever does come on line.

      Nevertheless, for ON shore NIMBY reasons in England, this is how Westminster is making up their impending shortfall. OFF shore capacity already exceeds the planned HP capacity with much more to come.

      Whether through direct subsidy or price hikes we are all going to have to pay for that English NIMBYISM and as you say, no doubt Scots will be forking out higher than pro rata for the privilege. But that’s Westminster style ‘fooling and scaring’, sorry ‘pooling and sharing’, for you.

      The next thing to consider is the inexorable progress of technology. Most immediately the EV revolution which has already begun.

      I think there has been a general lack of understanding as to just how revolutionary this impending change is going to be or perhaps people feel the usual reactionary forces will succeed in putting this genie back in it’s bottle – they won’t.

      By my calculation, using existing average daily mileage for an ICE car, replacing with an EV will roughly double the average domestic electricity usage. While folk might immediately baulk at the thought of a doubling of their electricity bill they should realise that the cost per mile for an EV is about a quarter to a fifth of that which they would pay for petrol, even at the standard(ish) 10p per unit.

      Then folk might ask “But how can we double our electricity production so fast?”. Well, we don’t need to. Very roughly, about 2/3 of electricity consumed is by manufacturing and industry. So really we only need to make about 25% more electricity than our current EGR.

      Now note, Scotland already has a surplus to EGR production which could meet that.

      It is not at all difficult to envisage an independent Scotland with 2 million EVs as opposed to ICE cars.

      Apart from the obvious advantages like a much more efficient use of off peak electricity, benefits for environment in terms of pollution and noise, cost savings which will act as a direct stimulous for the Scottish economy what better way for a newly independent Scotland to demonstrate it is a vibrant modern thinking country than being one of the first to attain full EV status? (obviously petrol heads will persist for a while but costs and performance will soon dwindle their numbers down to something like vintage car fan levels).

      Of course, a Scotland using all it’s own electricity production will make England’s increasing shortfall even more problematic for them but at least we wouldn’t have to listen to “We won’t buy your electricity” threats any more, or, on second thoughts given our MSM conditioning, we probably still will but they will be even more laughable than now.

    238. Hamish100 says:

      Well Nicola said it.

      The tories are arses — sorry arsonists! no the first one? both?
      Maybe Davidson will sit on the flames.

    239. call me dave says:

      Aye the SNHS is doing it’s best and if in any doubt the Tories and ‘Scottish’ labour parties should always look South to get it into persceptive.

      Hospitals are facing record levels of delays in discharging patients, figures from NHS England show.

      https://archive.is/F5CGM

      @Scotsrenewables

      Thanks for the link. Looking forward to that.

      PS:

      When I saw the little yellowy flutterby intervene and settle on the net in New York last night I hoped for ‘Gandolph the Gray’ help for Murray but the little bug was for Nishikori…

      It flapped it’s wings, then it was carried off and it’s been persisting with rain all over Fife since.

      Funny old heatwave prediction init!

      🙂 Ach well!

    240. Hamish100 says:

      Well Nicola said it.

      The tories are arses — sorry arsonists! no the first one? both?
      Maybe Davidson will sit on the flames on her a…. derriere!

    241. scunner says:

      Don’t see it mentioned in the thread, but did anyone else catch yesterday’s tea-time Misreporting Scotland “Oh what a Lovely Brexit” piece covering the upbeat mood of Scottish Food & Drink manufacturers?

      Certainly felt like a “post-Brexit and everything’s hunky-dory” propaganda piece.

      One well known pie maker enthused about increasing production to export to, wait for it, England & Wales! yeah Right! – As long as they aren’t trying to sell Scotch Pies and maybe don’t put saltires on the packaging.

      Another, a maker of “craft” (i.e. overpriced) soft drinks, talked about exporting to the Scottish diaspora in Canada & US, like their markets aren’t already saturated by similar businesses…

      Always the pessimist me.

    242. heedtracker says:

      Yuck. UKOK hackdom looking up women skirts now. The Heil’s crew like looking at little girls in their underpants too, so this latest display of great British tory news makes some toryboy sense. British journalists are an endlessly weird load of tories.

      http://archive.is/t7BKY

    243. Vambomarbeleye says:

      I have this image of England hiding from the world behind a high wall, handkerchief on head raising their fist to the sky. (Monty Python style) Shouting at the world in a voice that
      Is getting smaller and smaller till it disappears.

    244. call me dave says:

      Revenue Scotland collects £572m in first year

      https://archive.is/Fh9Of

      PS:
      I see the Westminster refurbishment costs have surfaced again.
      North of £4bn… Geez! a country could almost get a good start in life with a figure like that.

      The Palace of Westminster risks “crisis” and a growing risk of a “catastrophic event” without a £4bn restoration, MPs and peers have warned.

      https://archive.is/GtiCz

    245. Valerie says:

      Woohoo, just back from your hols, and someone turns up at your house to give you a kick in the arse.

      Tusk at Downing Street, get on with it x 27

      http://archive.is/qE8br

    246. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana. Ponsonby’s brilliant as usual and we’ve got a LOT to thank him for: Keeping tabs on the blatantly biased meeja.

      Good to see that Hungary has become the first European country to give Rothschild (IMF) the heave-ho. Let’s hope that many others follow. Syria (and Assad) of course had managed to survive without depending on Rothschild; no doubt one of the reasons for attempting to decimate it now.

      http://www.activistpost.com/2016/09/hungary-becomes-first-european-nation-ban-rothschild-banks.html

      ………………………………

      And then we’ve got that total waste of space Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party sitting in the Commons and Holyrood supposedly adhering to the key principle of their party, that is supporting and defending the working man (and woman) / their rights. Whilst we’re all focused on Brexit, the single market and the economy it’s easy to forget the level of power that the Tories are going to have following Brexit and what they’re planning to do with it: No doubt have been sitting round the table discussing their plans for years now and will start implementing them as soon as. And no doubt going to be in power for decades to come if the calibre of current Labour politicians is anything to go by. Add to that their toxic history of back-stabbing and divisive behaviour that never seems to abate.

      Brexit? Jeremy Corbyn did not mention Brexit at all yesterday in the Commons, not ONCE, and his even dafter lackey in Scotland, Dugdale, is still bleating on about ”Labour in Scotland being the only party representing the majority of Scots who want to remain in the UK AND the EU.” FGS!

      It’s high time that all politicians, who are making crucial decisions for millions of people, had their IQ tested / psychological assessments carried out before they are allowed anywhere near a Parliament at all. Additionally the Unions in Scotland should be keeping a close eye on this crazy, inept crew and, imo, consider advising their members to vote for Independence when the time comes.

      ….

      ‘Corbyn’s Brexit policy is a betrayal of British workers.’

      …. ”Consider for a moment what that means. For all intents and purposes, the entirety of Britain’s law is now up for challenge. Every equality law, every consumer protection, every workers’ right, every environmental standard: all of it is entangled in a mess of decades of conjoined EU and UK law. The government will first find a way to fix that law in place, then it will leave the EU, and then it will repeal the bits it doesn’t like at leisure.

      Even that would be dangerous. It would mean that the Conservatives can unpick all the Labour government achievements of the last four decades. But this is worse than that. At the precise moment that all that law becomes available to be reformed, Britain will be urgently seeking trade deals with the rest of the world. We will be desperate for deals, particularly with China, India, and the US. And what will they ask for? A reduction in our industrial and consumer protection standards. The chemical industry will want a reduction in our EU chemical standards. Silicon valley will want a reduction in our data protection laws. Big Pharma will want the NHS’s Nice committee dismantled so it can ratchet up the price of drugs. In all areas of life, our negotiating partner will push for what is best for them, which in terms of standards tends to be what’s worse for us, and the Conservatives will be ideally placed to give it to them.

      http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2016/09/07/corbyn-s-brexit-policy-is-a-betrayal-of-british-workers

      …………………………

      Lollysmum welcome to Scotland; in body that is because it would seem that your heart, mind and soul have always resided here. On a more practical note I hope you’ve emptied all of the boxes and settled right in x

      …………………………..

      @ heedtracker at 12:46 … Thanks for that. I’ll take a look.

    247. geeo says:

      Donald Tusk meets Theresa May and tells her to get on with Article 50 ASAP.

      http://news.sky.com/story/donald-tusk-tells-theresa-may-the-ball-is-now-in-your-court-10569499

    248. Proud Cybernat says:

      A dug’s life…

      http://imgur.com/a/h83oW

    249. CameronB Brodie says:

      Chic McGregor
      You were right the first time Chic, ‘fooling and scaring’ is how you operate utilitarian collectivism cross international boards. Internal colonialism doesn’t quite have the same appeal of pseudo socialism and I imagine would be quite hard to sell in the 21st century.

      @ HMG
      What about the Scottish people’s Right to Development?

    250. Petra says:

      @ heedtracker says at 1:00 pm …. ”Yuck. UKOK hackdom looking up women skirts now. The Heil’s crew like looking at little girls in their underpants too, so this latest display of great British tory news makes some toryboy sense. British journalists are an endlessly weird load of tories.”

      http://archive.is/t7BKY

      And then we had Gove standing pontificating about how sh*tty Scotland is at the Claim of Right debate with his fly open. He even mentioned the word ‘willie’ during the debate. Seems they’re always ‘at the ready’.

    251. Tam Jardine says:

      Iain

      Can I add my best wishes for your treatment and speedy recovery. I had cause to use our NHS last weekend- St John’s in Livingston and the treatment my daughter received was excellent. I am sure you are in safe and very competent hands.

    252. Dr Jim says:

      FMQs

      Nicola Sturgeon still failing to solve tomorrows unknown problems the day before yesterday and even if she does it’s too little too late

      Toodle ooh the Noo sets Severin Carroll up to being able to say the Scottish parliament’s shit
      Some weird unknown Prof in a too tight sale Asda shirt is brought on to inform us that nothing’s the way he likes it in Holyrood and the SNP still have too much power but he’s got no clue about what to do about it except he jist disnae like it, so well impressed by him I’m sure everybody will be (that was like Yoda there) as opposed to the Prof who was more like Soda

      I like FMQs longer it’s just that the BBC have taken advantage of the extra time to give their considered analysis propaganda crap at the end as if folk at home aren’t capable of making their own minds up on what they see and hear
      Plays very well into the Tory narrative of Scots being too stupid to understand anything for themselves so they need the BBC Educators to inform us all (from their perspective)

      Which is the perspective where you are

      I’m a great admirer of the BBCs tried and tested formula of asking an opponent of the SNP to tell us what they “think” the FM meant when she said something, and they then proceed to tell us what they themselves project onto the FMs words (Psychic abilities possessed at the Guardian and other crap newspapers)

      BTW Ruth Davidson racist sectarianist bigot still wont apologise to Christian Allard or indeed ANY EU citizens for her or her office’s remarks
      She’ll be wearing the armband before long and joining in with the Murdo Fraser hate mob (The facade has slipped)

    253. CameronB Brodie says:

      international boarders = international borders

      Only 11 miore days.
      http://talklikeapirate.com/wordpress/

    254. Undeadshaun says:

      Brexit to cause at least 15 years of economic pain., says former eu lawyer who drafted article 50.

      http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-to-cause-15-years-of-economic-pain-former-eu-lawyer-10569236

      One to show people who think staying in the uk is a better option than independence.

    255. G4jeepers says:

      Had to laugh at Patrick Harvey putting the words “herald” and “investigative” journalism alongside each other in the same sentence there at FMQ’s

      Bless

    256. Valerie says:

      @Dr Jim

      I saw that Prof, what a diddy! I expected him to end on ‘whatevs’. Absolutely no insight.

      I never quite get over the sight of poor Brian Taylor, and I’m relieved when he gets through a piece without passing out from blood pressure, or the toll on his heart.

      I’m serious. If any Wingers resemble Brian, or know someone dear to them, have a word. There is chubby, and there is shortening your life.

    257. galamcennalath says:

      Undeadshaun says:

      “Brexit to cause at least 15 years of economic pain., says former eu lawyer who drafted article 50”

      Thanks for that. An excellent article point out the reality of hard Brexit.

      “UK does not have the manpower and expertise needed to negotiate the EU exit.”

      I had feared that would force the Tories to go for the simplest option – just severe EU links! However, the article points out it’s much worse because 100s of trade agreements would then need to be negotiated and there simply aren’t enough people to do that either.

      Gutter right wing press talk as if Brexit has happened – just wait until it really does and the true horror of it all is exposed!

    258. Papadox says:

      Ruth Davidson, A loudmouth self opinionated thug, the Tories bully boy in the occupied territories, a credit to the conservative and unionist party. She is there as a distraction to the yoons in Scotia whilst her Westminster masters plunder and pillage Scotland’s wealth and keep its people under the Londinium jackboot till everything that is of any value is shipped south. Lovely people, up the yoons. Aye right up them!

    259. William Wallace says:

      Does anyone know the legalities and costs involved in setting up a cable channel(even if it means operating in another country) Could a pro indy channel be crowdfunded in such a way or is it too cost prohibitive or legally restrictive? Has the option been explored by anyone at all or is there anyone here who works in that field could lend some knowledge on the matter?

      I’m beginning to think the single most efficient way of beating mainstream media is to become the mainstream media. A pro indy channel with an honest narrative that debunks their pro yoon myths and nonsense as it occurs.

      I know it’s probably unrealistic but I am curious as to what the costs and legalities would be even if it is only to rule out the idea. I’d look into it myself but I don’t really know where to start.

      Anyone in the know that could shed some light on this?

    260. heedtracker says:

      Petra says: The fact is, would anyone leave their kids unaccompanied in any of these great British institutions now? From BBC, to what ever it is Labour grandees like Vaz do with their spare time. Degenerate, reprobate establishment, UKOK style doesn’t even come close. History and the news are written by the winners, very creepy Heil level of pervert here in the UK but they are still winning.

    261. Artyhetty says:

      Re;Petra@1.18

      It’s very very scary when you put it like that Petra, the very real consequences of brexit. A huge backward step, to say the least, that Scotland by a huge margin did not vote for. If anyone can make it the SNP are having an event at Bruntsfield links on Sunday, re, the EU, speakers n stalls, hopefully lots of info.

      DrJim, great comment, as are many comments on here.

      Iain, wishing you all the best, get well soon, we need you on WoS.

    262. Paula Rose says:

      Seeing as how the Scottish Government now funds BBC Caesar! I think it would be a good idea to task them to set up BBC Caesar!2 – an English language channel that would also be a proper public service broadcaster.

      And yes before the usual “what about it being in Scots”, that will be part of the remit when we are a normal self-governing nation again.

    263. Iain More says:

      OT

      So more Sex Offenders are getting banged up than ever in Scottish Prisons yet the Brit Nat Press and Media stretch this to make it sound like something really bad that they are getting locked up.

      My brother in law who has recently retired from Police Scotland is now venting about things that would have got him the boot with the consequent loss of his pension. His most recent rant was about Scotland and the North East of Scotland in particular being used as a dumping ground for Sex Offenders from south of the border. As if we didn’t have enough of our I suppose.

      I wonder if there is any Statistical correlation between his claims and the Media having a froth over what is happening in our Prisons? Not that we will ever get the truth of that I suppose.

    264. clipper says:

      Valerie 1.58

      I think Brian toodleoo the noo Taylor is a heart attack waiting to happen. Saw him once near top of Renfield St Glasgow near the Herald/Evening Times propaganda building and his face was beetroot and he looked like he was going to burst out of his clothes.

      Who knows maybe one day we get to see him explode live on teevee.

    265. Petra says:

      @ Heedtracker says at 2:11 pm …. ”The fact is, would anyone leave their kids unaccompanied in any of these great British institutions now? From BBC, to what ever it is Labour grandees like Vaz do with their spare time. Degenerate, reprobate establishment, UKOK style doesn’t even come close. History and the news are written by the winners, very creepy Heil level of pervert here in the UK but they are still winning.”

      Well I’ve worked in a number of the Great British institutions / establishments and wouldn’t leave my dog in many of them for 5 minutes never mind a child or even vulnerable adult. The abuse I’ve reported over the years (and paid for it) would make your hair stand on end: That includes reporting a nursing sister (plus certain cronies) drugging young girls in a psychiatric unit to make it easy for them to carry out horrendous sexual abuse.

      @ Paula Rose says at 2:27 pm …. ”Seeing as how the Scottish Government now funds BBC Caesar! I think it would be a good idea to task them to set up BBC Caesar!2 – an English language channel that would also be a proper public service broadcaster.”

      Brilliant idea Paula. I wonder if this is in the pipeline?

      @ Iain More says at 2:34 pm …. ”So more Sex Offenders are getting banged up than ever in Scottish Prisons yet the Brit Nat Press and Media stretch this to make it sound like something really bad that they are getting locked up. My brother in law who has recently retired from Police Scotland is now venting about things that would have got him the boot with the consequent loss of his pension. His most recent rant was about Scotland and the North East of Scotland in particular being used as a dumping ground for Sex Offenders from south of the border. As if we didn’t have enough of our I suppose. I wonder if there is any Statistical correlation between his claims and the Media having a froth over what is happening in our Prisons? Not that we will ever get the truth of that I suppose.”

      Yeah I heard it on the news last night Iain ”Four-fold rise in sex offenders at Barlinnie Jail” and they can’t cope. I just wonder if anyone has looked into where these people come from? For example a BBC article names John Farrell and Paul Kelly. Kelly is from Devon.

      There’s data out there that highlights that Scotland is a haven for paedophiles due to our Corroboration Law (and check out whose been blocking change). In other words it’s easier to sexually abuse someone in Scotland and get away with it than in any other part of the UK: the civilised World in fact other then the Netherlands. So where would you want to stay if you were like-minded?

    266. Artyhetty says:

      Not surprised if Scotland is also being used as a dumping ground for sex offenders from south of the border. What else, the list of how england is shafting Scotland is getting longer by the day.

      My cousins partner was telling me about his worst job ever in the care sector some years back. He was working at a centre for very disturbed kids and young people in, I think Ayrshire, in a rather desolate rural area, by all accounts a very scary place. He said that most, if not all of the kids were from england, dumped here in Scotland.

      Daft question I know, but no time to look it up, but is the running of prisons devolved? If so why are criminals from south of the border locked up in Scottish prisons, and who pays for it?
      Wonder how that would all work out when we have our independence.

    267. ben madigan says:

      @Iain who is ill – You’ll win this battle. Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Looking forward to soon hearing you’re back, fit and well!!

      @ sinky who said “What’s our share of the £4 billion to fix crumbling Houses of Parliament? Did Scottish Parliament costs all come from the devolved Scottish budget?’
      Don’t forget to add in Buckingham palace – the richest tenant in the world has lived rent-free for almost a century even though she has done no maintenance work!

      Surely UK upkeep should be a question of EPEP (English Pounds for English Palaces)?

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/uk-maintenance-evel-should-do-as-evel-is/

    268. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Iain.

      Best wishes towards you re your treatment and cure!

      Hi peeps.

      It’s still taking ages to keep up with all the comments btl. I’ve always felt frustration when peeps have posted comments that just repeat what somebody else has typed previously on a page; almost like “other peeps’ comments aren’t important – only MINE!”

      I used to be able to keep up – now it’s a lot more difficult, due to the sheer numbers of comments. So I can see where peeps are coming from – there’s not enough time available in this lifetime to read EVERYTHING.

      Onnyhoo, I finally got to the most recent post on this page, which allows me to stick in a comment, referring to posts yesterday afternoonish.

      RE: “the times they are a-changin’” I first came across Runrig’s version around 1989, on a 12″ picture disc. It’s a rather good version.

      Here’s one of the YouTube videos. I like it…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1jeyCX6oE8

    269. Chic McGregor says:

      BDTT

      Re your Runrig link.

      It rang a bell and I checked some old archived notes and came up with the following from circa 2000.

      “BOB Dylan has revealed that his famous protest song, The Times They Are A-Changin, was inspired by a Scottish folk tune.

      Following its release in 1964, the song quickly became an anthem for the counter-culture movement.

      Forty years later, it has emerged the song was influenced by Hamish Henderson, the Scottish former army intelligence officer who later became a left-wing peace campaigner and poet.

      The songwriter, who rarely talks about his songwriting, admitted last week that the song came from folklorist Hamish Henderson’s The 51st (Highland) Division’s Farewell to Sicily.

      Dylan said: “You use what’s been handed down. The Times They Are A-Changin’ is from an old Scottish folk song. ”

      What goes around comes around eh?

      Particularly apropos for this thread title.

    270. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Interesting stuff Chic.

    271. twathater says:

      Best of luck Iain I wish you and your family well,you are in the best hands

    272. Chic McGregor says:

      BDTT
      The other amusing thing I just remembered today was Slade’s spoof Runrig release called Run Runaway (geddit?).

      Think it was meant to be funny.

      However it achieved Slade’s highest ever hit Stateside and indeed the only one they got into the top 20 there.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHoPYLQvnQM



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