Wings Over Scotland

great analogy Stu.

The weather forecasts recently have often been happening the next day, whereas GERS estimates didn’t really happen yesterday.

I’m not sure this comparison really holds water.

Perhaps if the MET office had some nefarious reason for wanting people to stay inside, and their forecasts over-predicted the likelihood of rain …

So basically if:

No hurricane = Hurricane.

Then obviously it stands to reason:

Big Mad Mental GERs ‘Black Hole’= Massive Budget Surplus

Basically after nearly 30 years it is still a fact that the BBC says one thing then obviously the opposite is true.

Simple’s as the Meerkat says.

Estimates made in good faith are better than nothing. Estimates which are manipulated are anything but.
theferret.scot/economic-figures-manipulated-gdp-statistics/

On the BBC website, the weather forecast for Fort William last Saturday, from 13.00 to 15.00 hrs, was for heavy rain. There was not a drop.

Strictly speaking, it WASN’T a HURRICANE, but a violent storm which was the tail end of one.

Mrs May must be a fan of Michael Fish – if her forecasts for the UK are anything to go by. She is super-confident that the future of Brexit Britain is bright, while the leaders of the G20 are forecasting a very gloomy and even stormy picture.

To be fair to Mrs May, she can hardly be expected to tell the truth. In fact, the future for what’s left of the UK looks so bad, what with the debt levels and the loss of Scotland’s Aid payments to Westminster, it is unlikely that Mrs May will ever tell the truth again to the people of England.

David McCann says:
6 September, 2016 at 1:32 pm

A very good example in this month’s Scotbuzz.

Is this “The Scotsman” new format instead of printing.

Ex Scotsman one and all.”Chumps of Business & Enterprise”
My Arse. Bitter Yoons

From Bob Dylan: [Scotland’s state in the so-called united kingdom?]

“Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
And where have you been my darling young one?
I’ve stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I’ve walked and I’ve crawled on six crooked highways
I’ve stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
I’ve been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
I’ve been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard
It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you see, my blue eyed son?
And what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin’
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin’
I saw a white ladder all covered with water
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard
It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.

And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
And what did you hear, my darling young one?
I heard the sound of a thunder that roared out a warnin’
I heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world
I heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin’
I heard ten thousand whisperin’ and nobody listenin’
I heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin’
Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter
Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you meet my blue-eyed son ?
Who did you meet, my darling young one?
I met a young child beside a dead pony
I met a white man who walked a black dog
I met a young woman whose body was burning
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
I met one man who was wounded in love
I met another man who was wounded in hatred
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard
And it’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.

And what’ll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
And what’ll you do now my darling young one?
I’m a-goin’ back out ‘fore the rain starts a-fallin’
I’ll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest
Where the people are a many and their hands are all empty
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
And the executioner’s face is always well hidden
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
Where black is the color, where none is the number
And I’ll tell and speak it and think it and breathe it
And reflect from the mountain so all souls can see it
And I’ll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin’
But I’ll know my song well before I start singing
And it’s a hard, it’s a hard, it’s a hard, and it’s a hard
It’s a hard rain’s a-gonna fall.”

O/T

Claim of Rights for Scotland. Patrick Grady SNP MP. House of Commons. 2:30PM

link to parliamentlive.tv

In defence of the greatest public broadcaster in the known universe, ever, BBC South East has since “evolved” from Micheal Fish in the 80’s to Georgina Burnett in, whatever this decade’s called. Who cares what the weather’s like, when Georgina’s doing the BBC weather forecasterising.

FGS are they going to let bl**dy Gove stand there pontificating about how sh*tty we are?

Someone better stand up and knock all of that cr*p on the head. One point after another.

Sinky it’s ok you can watch Yes Minister or the house of horrors

“And here is the GERS where you are…”

Neat comparison, Rev.

O/T

Hi,

Just a quick email to say that the ‘Peep the Beeb’ campaign is now live on Indigogo. If you’d like to make a small contribution to help reach the campaign target fund of £1550.00 then you can contribute here:

link to indiegogo.com

The campaign target is £1270 but I have built in £280 for any unexpected costs. As stated in the campaign, any funds left over after all campaign costs are accounted for will be donated to food banks across Scotland. The campaign is short, only 11 days.

This campaign is just one smallbut important step to us THE PEOPLE taking on the hegemony of the BBC in Scotland. This campaign will alert people all over the country to the misinformation and disinformation broadcast by the mouthpiece of the Tory party.
Thanks for any support you may be able to give.

O/T Stumbled across this gem as I switched from BBC News to Parliament channel to try to hear the rest of our First Minister’s statement:

The Finance Bill debate in HOC the hounorable Rob Marris ,Labour Wolverhampton SW speaking on VAT being paid on policing and fire services in Scotland “The SNP have made their bed and they should lie in it.They were warned that this would be the situation and that would be the financial effect and having an enquiry into something they knew would happen and has happened and may be an adverse financial effect. That’s what you get with devolution.You make your decisions and you live with them and they should’nt as they are seeking through a mechanism here indirectly be looking for another bung from the English taxpayer when they are already getting shed loads of money under the Barnet formula and I support that but frankly some people can push their luck a bit and in this regard having known in advance.”

LABOUR ARE PURE DEAD BRILLIANT TORIES.

The thing about VAT is, apparently, that the exclusions are based on names of organisations. So one way it might have been avoided, and still might, is by retaining nominal regional divisions solely for tax reasons. The obvious way it should be tackled is by adding the names of the unified scottish services to the list of exclusions but the Treasury were being dicks about it.

@Famous 15

Heh, they’re still banging that drum are they? Easy to fix.

We leave, we take our share and they can get on with their perfect isolation.

Scots, as usual, painted the perennial beggar with our hand out. No recognition of our contributions or that we are valued in any way shape or form by the honourable ‘members’. That is, right up until there is a real threat we may leave. At this point?

Please stay. We love you. The greatest family of nations. Scots at the forefront of ‘British’ politics…. etc. Bullshit!

These people are serial abusers and users. Their collective political erectile disfunction gives way impotent xenophobic hate rage and partner abuse. Well, to put it in the coloquial… its time for them to shit or get off the pot.

Hand over FFR and a federal UK constitution, leaving us to 90% of our own devices, or show us the door if we are such a drag on the UK.

Strangely, I suspect they’ll simply stick with the same serial abuse from a distance, or have their ever obliging branch managers do it for them. A parliament tarred with greed, cowardice, arrogance and ignorance. The Hallmarks of the serial abuser.

Rev, I don’t like the analogy. The only thing manipulated for the weather forecast is the map. GERS on the other hand, is pure Whitehall manipulation.

The Scottish Government should emphasize separately the GERS Spending by the SG and the Westminster spending on behalf of Scotland.

Westminster should then have to justify its figures in a way it has never had to up until now. It should be Mundell who answers on behalf of the UK Treasury.

Times are changing, reports Independent.

Come gather round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown

link to independent.co.uk

There is of course no good reason that the GERS figures couldn’t be a near accurate assessment of Scotland’s real fiscal position. They apparently managed this just fine in the first 21 years of the 20th century – but then it was far too clear that Scotland was and is a net contributor.

With the technology available to Whitehall / Treasury this should be the proverbial piece of p*ss. Indeed it should also be equally possible to identify the true position of Scotland BEFORE the imposition of WM ‘allocations’, debt charges, and monies spent ‘on behalf’ of Scotland.

My view remains exactly as it was in the run up to 2014. If it was totally clear that Scotland was a basket-case the figures would have been trumpeted from the rooftops and be the headline story in the Corporate Media for the ENTIRE campaign.

The silence from the Treasury remains damning.

Extra credit for the reference to The Day Today.

@Colin Rippey.
Should Scotland be an independent country?

The silence from the Treasury remains damning.

Scotland is a strong and integral part of the United Kingdom explain our imperial masters over and over, after the ongoing BBC Scotland led media GERS blitz, screaming Scotland’s a basket case, there’s no oil left, suck on some delicious fiscal transfers from England, and forget about your EU citizenship being ripped up in front of you, by your NOT xenophobic tory chums in the south, generous chums in the south .

Confused.com

Now that GERS has been comprehensively debunked we might as well have some fun and take the piss out of it whenever we can. The nearer to IndyRef2 the higher the GERS figure. I predict the eve of IndyRef2 will see our “deficit” as one approaching £31.6 trillion-guzzillions.

orri says:
6 September, 2016 at 3:37 pm
The thing about VAT is, apparently, that the exclusions are based on names of organisations. So one way it might have been avoided, and still might, is by retaining nominal regional divisions solely for tax reasons. The obvious way it should be tackled is by adding the names of the unified scottish services to the list of exclusions but the Treasury were being dicks about it.

=====================================================

So can we just not call them Stathclyde Polis for VAT purposes and then claim the VAT back? No need to rebrand the polis cars etc., just change the organisation name doing the VAT reclaiming.

I know nothing about VAT as may be clear with that suggestion!

heedtracker says:
6 September, 2016 at 4:05 pm

jdman says:
6 September, 2016 at 3:54 pm
Just had a look at Georgina Burnett Heedtracker,
never seen her before, I take she does the weather where…eh you are?

Apparently the weather where you are follows this … or so I am told! 😀

link to youtube.com

Newsflash!

Apparently oor wee professor Tomkins is blaming the POOR for the poverty they are in!

James Dornan SNP ?@glasgowcathcart 12m12 minutes ago Edinburgh, Scotland

Well done @ClareAdamsonSNP on calling out @ProfTomkins for blaming the poor for their poverty. #PfG

Ripple: “I seem to recall… “

… that you have a very short memory.

On real time weather – forecast said searing sunshine. Where is it?

If only England is enjoying it, surely that’s the best reason to stay in the UK?

Claim of Rights for Scotland:

Well I reckon this just became a platform for people like Gove, Ian Murray and that wee ignorant gnaff Alberto Costa to run the SNP’s performance RIGHT down to the ground. Unbelievable.

Tory Costa was even complaining that he didn’t get a vote in IndyRef1 due to him being a Scot living in England.

Thank goodness for Deirdre Brock SNP MP (Australian).

I mentioned recently that I reckon that the SNP should have been holding training seminars to acquaint its 120,000 members with the type of information we have ‘learned’ on here (and more).

Add to that they should be holding courses / workshops to prepare their MPs for the usual onslaught … Scottish Parliament the most powerfully devolved in the World, SNP doing nothing with the many powers they have been given and everthing is going to the dogs in Scotland such as our educational system / standards etc, etc, etc. It was he**ish and to be honest I think that MANY who post on here would have done a better job.

I just ask myself why someone didn’t make a list of their numerous complaints during this debate and come right back at them kicking every bl**dy myth into the long grass. Short version or longwinded. Better still go on the attack (in a civilised fashion) and point out how bad things are in England versus Scotland.

All I can hope for was that was some kind of Constitutional ‘Hansard’ excercise to get this noted officially right now because it’s going to be used in the near future.

Will try this again.
Quote from the above.

And as Unionists continue to squeal that GERS figures must be a reliable guide to an independent Scotland’s future finances because they’re published by the Scottish Government (albeit produced from UK government figures that themselves are in large part guesswork)

Not according to P&J from the reply I got from them the GERS figures are from the Scottish Government mind you I never believe them.

Thank you for your email in relation to the content of the P&J today re: the Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (Gers) figures.

I’m afraid you are incorrect to state that these are Westminster’s financial figures. As the name suggests these are figures taken from the Scottish Government and a snapshot of the Scottish economy, however they started out.

The SNP have utilised these figures consistently to give an overview of its progress and were used heavily in the White Paper on a proposed referendum for independence.

The P&J’s job is to highlight and seek reaction to those figures and it is up to you, the reader, to determine whether they are good or not. We carry many positive stories about the SNP (The First Minister’s front page pledge to save Kinloss springs to mind) but we are also there to scrutinise Government decisions.

Colin Rippey says:
6 September, 2016 at 4:34 pm
@Breastplate
@heedtracker
Should Scotland be an independent country?

I seem to recall we asked this question not that long ago and the people of Scotland (yes, the people of Scotland) voted 55.3% No to that question.

Did they Kevin? Or did they NO to full independence and YES to The Vow? Devo-max, federal UK, home rule, staying in the EU, while not upsetting England who will never speak to us again, let alone trade, and with England still making big decisions for Scotland, like war n shit?

Kevin youre a business man, why cant Scotland have that devo-max The Vow promise?

And you cant say, ah but it was a once in lifetime, or a generation, pending the lengthening of either, which ever’s the longest, because that’s also an amazing yoon super power, deciding what that once muttered aside, once in a generation, probably means a generation of royals, but you will.

If britnats think the union with England is so beneficial to Scotland you’d think they’d be happy about IndyRef2 giving them an opportunity to be proven right. Yet britnats are scared of IndyRef2. Why? They say the people of Scotland don’t want another referendum. This, on the “evidence” of a poll of 1000 people, as opposed to the evidence of the Holyrood and Westminster elections post-IndyRef1 where millions of people expressed an opinion. Again, IndyRef2 would provide them an opportunity to be proven right. Yet britnats remain scared of another referendum. Again, why? Is it because they know they have treated the people of Scotland abominably since IndyRef1?

@manandboy 4:45pm

Jings! We’ve had 14 referendums? That whisky was stronger than I thought.

Dan Huil,
My thoughts exactly

It is another beautiful day here but I will blame the SNP for that and the resulting increase in skin cancer because I know the Brit Nats like the Ripper will.

The day only spoiled by blind braying Brit Nats.

@Iain More 5:07pm

And their brave boys in their britnat flying machines guzzling oil and dumping aviation fumes onto us all.

I’m no economist right off the bat, but I had a look at the UK Governments actual deficit figures and as near as I could work it out Scotlands deficit is 2.2Billion with the other 12.8Billion assignable used as infrastructure support and spend for the rest of the UK, which is in line with the UKs Pooling and Sharing policy

I think the general idea is that this policy helps Scotland because it creates balance in the poorer areas of England and devolved economies, which benefits Scotland…they say
Except going on what ..they say.. that would mean the UK are claiming to be putting in over 100Billion for the pooling and the sharing…That’s not right… surely

In other words what I think what they’re saying is without Scotlands money Wales and Northern Ireland would sink like a stone and the good old UK of England does not want to bale them out on it’s own because Scotland and London are already subsidising poorer areas of England

So it’s Scotland and London who appear to make money but not so much anywhere else

Again I’m not an economist I only got as far as Simultaneous Equations and Trig in school then I was gubbed
so I’m sure somebody will be along in a minute to completely rubbish everything I’ve looked at, but that’s OK I’m not an economist so wont be in the least offended

I figure if the dog food guy can come to conclusions without a degree or experience of Governmental economics so can I, AND I have’nt wasted anybody’s time looking at a graph I just made up

Was wondering where you were going with that weather vain REV

Bob Dylan: Subterranean homesick Blues.

Keep a clean nose. Watch the plain clothes. You don’ t need a weatherman. To know which way the wind blows.

Peace Always

Today, Michael Gove, representing the UK Gov, effectively said to all Scots, ‘Look, stop complaining about those chains and shackles. Just get on with the work I’ve told you to do. Now pick up that shovel and clear up the mess that me and my friends have made.’

But he wouldn’t see it that way. To him, only England has the right to be independent in the UK.

They know what GERS is well enough.They supplied info for it between 1997 and 2010. It was designed by a Tory to score against ALL the other parties,I think that must include Labour,since in 1992 when it was dreamed up, they had most of the MPs in Scotland.The Tories got wiped out in Scotland in ’97. Seems that every party that points to GERS and says Scotland is useless gets wiped out at election time.

What a songwriter Dylan was, so profound, and gets better with age. I sometimes have Dylan days, playing nothing else, so it’s a proper tribute to his genius.

We should be proud of our Scottish gov’t today. 14 Bills! The vast majority of which are to do with improving lives. If only they would get on with the day job, though!

Compare and contrast to the utter bullshit being peddled in WM, the complete void since 23 June, and its shameful.

I read a very good critique of the 15 pages produced by Japan about Brexit. The first thing to point out, is that its far more substantial than anything the UK has produced on the subject

Conclusion was that the Japanese are, and will not fool around so UK can expect to lose the car industry, which supports 140k workers. They will easily relocate to EU countries, where there are existing plants.

This is the car industry that Davis often refers to as the ‘indigenous’ car industry, like the moron he is.

Colin Ripley:

Anagrams of!

Prince ploy I (last digit i capitalised)

Gaius Plinius Seconudus
:Plini the elder,AD23-AD79

Commanding Officer of Army and Navy!

Would make you:C.O. Plini Prey,but I doubt if you could be C.O. unless it was in charge of the stationery cupboard.

I can but try.

PEACE ALWAYS ALLWAYS!

link to thecanary.co 2.48 mins. in snp video.
“voted Labour” “why”? “cos I am Conservative” SHEESH!!

“Brexit inspires kin of Jewish refugees who escaped Nazis to reclaim German citizenship. 1949 German law allows anyone stripped of citizenship by the Nazis to get it back, including descendants.”

link to cbc.ca

Who would have believed it? Perhaps they fear a new breed of Nazis?

Still Positive 7.08pm

“”That is how they manipulate the stats. There are actually more pupils from disadvantaged areas going to uni and it is rising faster in Scotland & Wales (I think). There was an article in the Times Educational Supplement (TES) a few months ago. Sorry not got time to look for it.””

There was an article in the TES in October 2015, if I remember correctly, which looked at the stats and showed that over the last 10 years the percentage of students from disadvantaged backgrounds going to Uni had risen from 7% to 15%. Perhaps that is the article you are thinking about.

O/T

Some unreported facts on oil income

link to oilandgasuk.co.uk

That is how they manipulate the stats. There are actually more pupils from disadvantaged areas going to uni and it is rising faster in Scotland & Wales (I think). There was an article in the Times Educational Supplement (TES) a few months ago. Sorry not got time to look for it.”

Uni entrants from deprived families are higher in England but there is no increase in students like this being accepted into the top English unis like Oxbridge. There is no comparable exclusive intake policy at Scottish universities.

Almost none of the Russell group have increased their intake of prospective students from deprived homes.

link to russellgroup.ac.uk

link to independent.co.uk

It is complete and utter classic UKOK bullshit to compare, contrast and then attack SNP no uni fee policy, on the basis of increase intake in England, via usual tory BBC Scotland UKOK roasters.

Russell group uni’s only accept public school applicants by a vast majority. Russell group uni’s are one of the main drivers behind uni fees in England. Why not? £9k a year is cheap compared to private school fees, its cash on the nose and its going to go up, for obvious reasons.

The watchdog for university access has given the green light to universities to increase tuition fees in England to £9,250.

link to archive.is

The point I was trying to make is entrance to uni in England is through clearing. In Scotland pupils go either through clearing or direct to uni via an arrangement with their college. If the latter, they are not included in the clearing numbers.

So, as usual, they are not comparing like with like and omit the facts to suit an agenda.

Pretty much the same as the “disappearing” college places – comparing apples and pears.

call me dave says:
6 September, 2016 at 8:32 pm
The watchdog for university access has given the green light to universities to increase tuition fees in England to £9,250.

And Teresa Thatcher’s grammar school roll out plan slips out. Class and social exclusion, its toryboy heaven now for teamGB. It’s weird how toryboy Westminster always flash giant policy stuff at their media chums, via the side of a folder what they carry past cameras.

Graun
Tuesday 6 September 2016 20.08 BST
Government will publish plan to end ban on new grammar schools in weeks
Policy – revealed after civil servant is photographed with memo – is likely to trigger ideological battle in parliament

Aye, CCR (creedence) called it best, here’s another couple of excellent songs about the rain:

I can’t stand the rain played by Eruption
link to youtube.com

Rain, Beautiful Rain by Ladysmith Black Mambazo
link to youtube.com

il pleut.

Yoon culture, red and blue tory, is very weird sometimes, ref 2 is off says rancid The Graun but they are brtnats are furious

This dude was never off the box 2014, raging at Scots to vote NO, now he’s even angries “Paul Mason attacks Sturgeon for dithering between #IndyRef2 & working with the Tories on #Brexit.”

link to youtube.com

Historywoman ?@2351onthelist 3h3 hours ago
Historywoman Retweeted David Eyles
Never said a truer word.Historywoman added,
David Eyles @Drystonesonnet
@PD_Politics @Planet_Pedro @Alan_Cochrane @reactionlife She is using indyref as a distraction away from her own domestic ineptitude.

The Graun says “Sturgeon shelves plan for quick second Scottish independence referendum”

with rancid’s comment section even more furious, from

Bob_Helpful 1h ago

so the utopian dream that was independent Scotland was built on the house of cards that is oil prices all along.

to,

ID2237674 55m ago

the sooner these parasites f*** off the better.

and finally,

rdwes1 54m ago

Sturgeon is a typical Narcissist who is unable to understand the word no… France and Spain have already told her she won’t be allowed into the EU but in typical Narcissistic fashion she she ignores reality and carries on regardless…

There should indeed be another referendum – asap – and this time the whole of the UK should be given a vote so that we can send this blood sucking band of nationalists on their way… It would be interesting to see how quickly Brussels wouldn’t go running with an open cheque book to start dolling out the readies to bankroll the SNP and all its electoral bribes?
The Scotland’s oil routine doesn’t wash anymore.

The SNP is popular only because of London’s cheque book largesse – once that’s gone and reality sinks in Sturgeon and the SNP will be gone faster than Cameron…”

So, this is one very confused member of the blood sucking band of nationalists. Why are the yoons of Scotland and some of our chums in the south so angry:D

Can someone confirm whether it is true, that the Scottish Government is no longer preparing legislation for an independence referendum. They had previously said they were.

If that is the case, then I think you can kiss independence goodbye. If they won’t push for it in the current circumstances, allowing brexit to happen to Scotland, then I doubt they ever will.

What a thoroughly depressing few weeks this has been.

Robert Louis.

Waht is your source.

I read this

link to thecourier.co.uk

A group of Polish workers arrived at my office today, all brothers with family in Scotland, here over eight years, fully documented.

They asked if I would write the preface for their website to “tell Scottish people we are experienced craftsmen”

But they added …

“We’d rather you did not tell them we are from Poland. We are very worried with what is happening.”

How sad is that? – In Scotland, my Scotland!

Heedtracker at 8:54PM.

Aye Heedie, The Tory party at its best.

Thuggery and buggery.

Robert Louis @ 9.17pm

When the first results were coming in about 1am, to fill a space, one of the commentators mentioned the Nissan plant in Sunderland, so I could barely believe the result.

I remember about a week or so before the ref Corbyn was in Scotland and I thought he shouldn’t be wasting his time up here as all 5 party leaders in Scotland were in favour as well as opinion polls consistently showed Remain in the lead.

I remember shouting at the TV he should be in the North of England to persuade them.

I just hope all NE politicians did their best to tell people jobs were at risk and why.

Trouble is, many voters don’t trust MPs, often with good reason.

The people will suffer but politicians are well-cushioned from the terrible effects.

Robert Louis at 9.52

I don’t know where you get the depressing bit from. This has been a great few weeks with Nicola running rings round Theresa May and covering all corners to make sure that our independence referendum is completely viable.

A wee diversion: link to wp.me

Yep, I’d say it’s been a good month for the Indy movement.

Reams of Tory drivel being unwound in a quite sad, predictable motion.

No damage done to our spirits whatsoever.

A few radges went in the huff for a bit too.

call me dave 10.02pm

Wow. A lot of impressive goodies packed in there and that’s just the first year.

Just think how much better it would be if both hands were controlling all the levers.

Thanks call me dave, excellent stuff from the FM and SG…have passed around as per, to as many as possible… 🙂

Been thinking it through, and what I reckon it will more likely be 2019 or 2020 before we see a second referendum, but it will happen in this term. There is time to prepare for it.

It will take another 2 years to find out what sort of EU deal we are going to get for starters, and if the UK remains in the single market or not.

Unfortunately due to the oil price fall, the deficit as shown by GERS has the *appearance* of being too high right now for a smooth transition. Even when allowing for all the savings we would make.

I think Nicola will gain credibility by saying she could have went for a quick referendum, but she waited until we were on more solid ground as the onshore economy improves. So it is clear we aren’t dependent on oil. If the oil price improves that is a genuine bonus.

And I don’t think a second referendum will be automatically linked to rejoining the EU. That has the risk of diving the vote. The EU issue will be left to parties elected in the first Holyrood elections after independence. So the SNP may propose re-joining, but people will have the choice to vote for anyone else.

Fast-track membership would likely be on the plate for Scotland at that point. There is no way we would be treated as a completely new member.

It was nice to see Anas Sarwar and Adam Tomkins agreeing with each other on Scotland tonight

That’ll be a real vote winner for Labour Hee Hee Hee

And the “Journalist” commentators view “The SNP are very good managers”

Over on 2016 the BBC flagship shit program they actually ended up praising the FM and the SNP

Who’da thunk eh

The conclusion overall was really nobody could find anything to complain about except Sarwar and Tomkins moaning about Indy ref

Agree with X-sticks – the IndyApp could be a vital tool in the coming struggle. They still need 4k, so get on over there wingers

link to indiegogo.com

Quick off topic question for any of the iScot peeps. I renewed my subscription on the 20th August (inc passport holder).

Will I miss the September edition before everything is processed?

Scotland’s world cup qualifying campaign has started and it provides an opportunity for conversations with football-loving unionists. As the matches come round we could point out the honking great irony in our group.

Our opponents are : England (no explanation required ) Slovakia (gained independence 1993), Slovenia (gained independence 1991) , Lithuania (gained independence 1991) and Malta (gained independence 1964)

We could then ask them to list the qualities and abilities that the good people of those countries have that the people of Scotland don’t have .

Far right likes it but couple of tory flamers double up in,

Kevin Hague Retweeted
Iain Martin ?@iainmartin1 2h
Nicola Sturgeon sensibly runs away from second Scottish independence referendum. (My latest for Reaction)

Toryboy’s reaction is scorn pouring. Well it was nice being an European citizen for a while but it is a toryboy world, we just live in it and its likely Teresa Thatcher will never actually leave the EU anyway.

So on the day BBC Scotland ongoing Project Fearing actually won ref 2, with red and blue tory’s continuing rage at SNP Scots.gov to hike tax, far right toryboy’s cant wait to get stuck in. Impatient bunch.

Andrew Neil Retweeted
Coffee House ?@SpecCoffeeHouse 8h8 hours ago
Nicola Sturgeon takes another tiny and cautious step towards Scottish independence: link to specc.ie

“In April, SNP ministers will be able to set income tax levels anywhere they want. We already know that Sturgeon intends to use this opportunity to refuse to implement George Osborne’s planned tax cut for higher income earners.

This is significant because it will mean that for the first time since the 18th century, Scots will be taxed more than their counterparts in England who are doing exactly the same job for the same wages.

Yet this was waved away in a single sentence by Sturgeon who merely acknowledged that there would be a budget bill some time this year.”

Cant think why Lord Smith, Prof T etc “gave” Scotland tax devo for their The Vow fraud.

Maybe there’s a pill you can take to become a toryboy gimp like Kevin or Ian, for example, or a lobotomy.

@Euan Whazermy 11.40

maybe that they all have smaller populations than Scotland except Slovenia which has over taken Scotland this last 10 years?

Maybe they have all done well from independence despite their lack of oil?

Maybe because the BBC thought independence for them was a good idea?

Maybe because they all have a seat at the top table in Europe, unlike Scotland

where does one stop?

Just wondering like, but the folk who are telling us that Scotland would be soooo much worse off had we been independent. Would that be the same folk who said that Scotland’s economy would be safe in times of economic hardship because of the broad shoulders of the UK government?

That would be the self same folk who said that with the UK pensions would be safe, job prospects secured, in fact that there would be better job prospects. Orders would flow to the Clyde, the UKs triple A credit rating would remain solid, that we’d be guaranteed to remain members of the EU and the single market. The same folk who set their own deficit reduction targets, whilst promising continued political and economic stability and growth. How’s meeting that latest deficit reduction coming along by the by? Sterling looked a wee mite shaky after that Brexit result to be sure and markets lost a fair chunk of change. The chancellor has apparently predicted a ‘fiscal reset’ as of the autumn budget t’boot. (sounds a tad ominous)

These self same folk also promised a devolution settlement with a no detriment clause. They then proceeded to put together a settlement which proposed a not insubstantial detriment to the Scottish budget which has NOT been settled, merely put in stasis for five years and is yet to be revisited and resolved. The same bods who currently have a £1.6tr debt and black hole deficit of what? £60 odd bn or thereabouts?

As for their ability to accurately cost and prioritize projects in this very ‘uncertain’ period? Well as an example of their expertise in this area, I’m not sure the leap from initial costings around £100bn to the current bandied figure of £205bn on Trident 2 went down well with home nations struggling to deal with the ongoing government austerity measures.

Anyroads I’m wondering. If the economic predictions of these bods have proven to be so wildly inaccurate over the past two years since making all of those assurances to the electorate, just what credence should be given to any claim they make about an independent Scotland that never happened?

They don’t seem the most confident or reliable of management, now do they?

The online Brexiters are getting REALLY wound up about unelected, Remainer Theresa May being totally dismissive of the Australian points system for controlling immigration (what many millions thought they were getting when they voted) and are demanding to know what she’s planning to do. Demanding that she puts a stop to free movement of labour ASAP.

She of course will try and drag this out for as long as she can, saying as little as she can, such as right through the 2 year negotiation period, especially as she’s finding herself between a rock and a hard place already: Brexiters versus the Japanese Government. However for ‘as long as’ may not be acceptable to the Brexiters. Some are threatening all sorts of ‘action’ if she doesn’t get a move on. If she has to show her hand when she triggers Article 50 and it’s in line with Brexiters demands this could be the absolute watershed moment for us. Can you imagine how horrified the staunch, Scottish (non Indy) EU supporters / sitting on the fencers will feel when they see the Japanese preparing to pull out? Could push us right into absolute Indy winnable figures and all thanks to the English Brexiters and of course the Japanese. Just thinking too that they could relocate their business to an Independent Scotland. Shipping their cars from Rosythe. That would be a right smack on the melt for Westminster

And to give you a bit of a laugh they are all fighting amongst themselves (big time now) with the Brexiters saying “f*ck the Japs” (previously f*ck the Germans) and “that’s it if they pull out we’ll stop buying their cars!” Someone had to point out that they’d be no cars to buy. God you couldn’t make it up. Blind leading the blind.

@Petra

Ayup, that’s Kezia’s big plan especially. Her idea of yoozing the poowerrs isn’t to further democracy in Scotland or benefit the population by enhancing their economy, but as a system of double tax to ‘offset’ the hardships imposed by central government.

The obvious question being, as you point out. Why should a devolved legislature be required to protect its population from hardships imposed by a central government? That vision of a UK going forward painted by Better Together not quite as billed it appears. Who knew?

But then that vision has catastrophically stalled on every level as each pledge and assurance made two years ago has failed when confronted with time and real terms application. It doesn’t matter whether it was social justice, societal cohesion, the devolution settlement, the economy, political practice, the list of pledges and assurances failed or discarded out of hand in the past two years has resulted in a UK quite different from the one promised.

Which brings me back to my own question.

Just what credence should be given to any claim they make about an independent Scotland that never happened? Seems to any reasonable person surely, that the UK government and those who managed the Better Together campaign, have proven beyond any doubt by this point that their willingness and/or ability to deliver on pledges and assurances is to all intents and purposes entirely worthless.

Nicola has to pass the legislation for a second Referedum through the Scottish Parliament So folk in Scotland can vote on it. Not act illegally. What are some folk on.

@Cadogan Endogan 12.48

Sorry Cadogan , I hadn’t noticed my post was ambiguous but I see now that it was! It could even have looked pro union!

I simply meant it’s an opportunity to ask if they can do it then why should we be any different?

It can be argued that it is the settled will of the sovereign people of Scotland that Scotland will Remain in the EU.
Nobody in the UK has the authority to countermand this. Especially as the UK parliament neglected to ensure that the EU referendum really was advisory by putting in a clause to that effect.

My long post yesterday morning explained how there are two options to ensure that this result is implemented:
A: Remain in the 1706 Union with England that formed the UK, and find a way to continue with full membership of the EU, even while England and Wales exit.
B: Become an independent sovereign state that is a member of the EU, inheriting the full status of the former UK.

The first option depends on political will in Europe and Westminster, and is unlikely.
The second option, due to the Vienna Convention on the Operation of Treaties, can only work if Article 50 has NOT been invoked when the decision is taken for Scotland to be independent.

Given all of this, does invoking article 50 effectively countermand the will of the people of Scotland by closing off option B?
Actually, would it countermand it anyway, as the Article 50 negotiations are unlikely to allow time to discuss ways for parts of the departing state to remain in the EU?

If it might, that could explain some of the dithering from Downing St.

I’m looking forward to Nicola’s statement on the EU today. That article in the rancid Graun is terrible.

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