The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

An outbreak of coyness

Posted on September 29, 2015 by

We know that the media isn’t normally shy about identifying which side of the Scottish independence debate people are on, especially if they’ve been behaving badly.


So we were a little puzzled by the papers this morning.

The Scotsman, Evening Times, STV News, BBC, Scottish Daily Mail and more all report a guilty plea from Glasgow teenager Kieran Christie to being involved in the violence that swept the city’s George Square the day after the referendum. Christie brandished a flare and a glass bottle and engaged in racial and sexual abuse as well as numerous incidences of aggressive and threatening behaviour.

Curiously, every single story is written in a non-committal way which avoids specifying whether Christie was a Yes supporter or a Unionist – a fact which doesn’t seem to be in a great deal of doubt. This appears to be the picture of him (taken from a Daily Mail report at the time) that’s referred to in several of the articles:


And these shots are from his Facebook page:





It doesn’t seem like rocket science.

But the Scotsman took the bizarrely ambiguous reporting a step further:


Rather than use a picture of Christie, or a more general image of the violence, or even a generic shot depicting both sides of the campaign, last night the paper chose to illustrate the story with a picture of Saltires and Yes flyers. With nothing in the text of the piece to contradict the image, a casual reader would have drawn the logical conclusion that Christie was a real-life “cybernat” (since the media has spent three years almost exclusively highlighting abusive behaviour from the Yes side).

As protests erupted on social media, the paper hastily changed the pic to an innocuous stock shot of the Glasgow City Chambers.


The text, however, still oddly avoids telling readers which side Christie was on. We can think of no legitimate reason not to do so – while sentence has been deferred, his allegiance ought to have no impact on it.

The only apparent explanation for the omission is that the Scotsman – and the rest of the press – simply doesn’t want people to know, because it doesn’t fit its dishonest three-year narrative of vile, abusive Yes supporters intimidating innocent Unionists.

Tick tock.

Print Friendly

    2 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 29 09 15 12:43

      An outbreak of coyness | Speymouth

    2. 29 09 15 13:46

      An outbreak of coyness | Politics Scotland | S...

    197 to “An outbreak of coyness”

    1. Rigmac7 says:

      Wouldn’t sully my eyes with their screen, never mind wipe my arse with their rag

    2. Marie Clark says:

      Is this the new and revamped Scotsman then.

      Same old same old it would appear. Time for them to close altogether, just the usual unionist tripe. Ho hum.

    3. yerkitbreeks says:

      These media monsters certainly want to keep the pot boiling – presumably it’s good for readerships.

    4. handclapping says:

      And its not the employees that are making these decisions that are getting the push, its the innocent. 🙁

    5. Macart says:

      The press…

      … dishonest, misleading, corrupt, compromised both corporately and politically.

      That’s just their good points.

    6. Training Day says:

      Indeed. Noticed STV’s bland and non-committal (i.e. mendacious) report on this last night.

      Freedom of the Press, eh? That’s if you call uniformity ‘freedom’.

    7. galamcennalath says:

      Scotsman? Nah!

      North British Unionist?
      North British Nationalist?
      Voice of London?
      Occupying Forces Daily?

    8. Tamson says:

      For more misleading MSM pics in stories, check out the Carmichael story on the BBC Scotland front page just now. Why include a picture of Sturgeon?

    9. Bob Mack says:

      Garbage journalism from a garbage paper.

    10. louis.b.argyll says:

      Is it an offense to go into a newsagents, pick up a stack of newspapers and throw them in the nearest suitable recycling bin… protect gullible readers from being DELIBERATELY MISLED?

    11. Wulls says:

      Brilliant …….
      This is exactly the sort of crap the unionists refuse to accept happens.
      The original reports on this idiot were so vague it could have been assumed he was an innocent bystander caught up in the rush.
      I expected better from the Scotsman though.

    12. Bill Hume says:

      Oh dear. I weary of this unending struggle with our imperial masters.

      Luckily, I am continually refreshed by a good daily dose of truth from wings, and for good measure, I met the Wee Ginger Dug and Paul Kavanagh last night….Soooooo

      I’m good for a bit more of the fight.

      Tick Tock indeed.

    13. One_Scot says:

      Is there any other country in the world where the media is not only happy but actively goes out of its way to politically manipulate and lie to the public?

      Scotland, wake up and move forward. Let’s consign this continued British colonisation of Scotland behind.

      We deserve better than this, our children deserve better than this.

    14. louis.b.argyll says:

      Folks, we complain and expose and are outraged daily by these journalistic tricks.

      But, maybe we should pick one repeating offender at a time .eg Scotchman..and take direct action until they are forced to defend their actions.

      ‘Bin the bull’ campaign.

    15. Roddy says:

      The Scotsman will be defunct in 2 years max – the last spasms of a dead beast

    16. CameronB Brodie says:

      I hope North Korea are taking notes. This is a single strand of a totalitarian tapestry being sold as balanced news by a ‘free press’. It is “thought reform” of the highest caliber….not. The Scotchman, of course, is simply a joke.

      Better Together?

    17. Luigi says:

      We fight this by spreading the word, avoiding the Scotchman online (full of clickbait), and also by supporting their competitors.

      I hope you have all purchased your copy of the ever-improving National today. 50p for a nail in the Scotchman coffin. It’s a bargain. 🙂

    18. Dr Jim says:

      Alex Salmond said the better educated people are on the issues the more they move to YES

      These knuckle dragging throwbacks who herd themselves together in the corners of Rangers Football Club, the Orange Order, the BNP and other moronic organisations associated with the UNIONISTS and Labour supporting Publications in our country can only be the ones who are part of Kezia’s statistics and prove the Former First Minister’s point

      The Labour party shouldn’t be complaining, this is where they get their support from

      And everybody’s right, Tick Bloody Tock

      p.s. For the type of society they want, they’re lucky this isn’t Ireland, they’d be dead already

    19. heedtracker says:

      UKOK media moves in to protect UKOK neds, shock. BBC vote No Scotland did their bit too, a really nasty bit.

    20. Iain More says:

      I report with glee at the disgust that my newsagent has displayed as he had to order in more copies of the National because they kept selling out. Meanwhile the daily sales of the dreadful P&J have all but collapsed to single figures in a town that used to sell them by the hundreds. No great loss if that should fall either.

    21. Iain More says:

      I note that the retarded Mr Christie likes Dirty British Girls, I wonder who he could possibly mean? I can think of a few at the BBC.

    22. Michael McCabe says:

      Sorry for going O/T Rev Stu. Just heard Carmichael Court case to go ahead. Yahoo.

    23. Macart says:


      National and iScot. 🙂

    24. Harry McAye says:

      How The “Scotsman” is still in business baffles me. Who is buying it? The other day in Sainsburys they had ONE on sale, while there was about a dozen Nationals, this was about 10am!

    25. muttley79 says:

      The MSM/unionist narrative was to portray independence supporters as thugs, Nazis, hooligans etc before the referendum. We even had the appearance of the now SLAB branch leader, Kezia Dugdale, in the Daily Mail of all things, with her looking very scared sitting over her PC, in her best amateur actress pose. Of course it was garbage and propaganda, if people got assaulted on the streets the victims were Yes supporters and activists as far as I can tell. That this narrative was absolute bullshit partly helps to explain the results of the general election in May in Scotland.

      A few months after the general election, without even a hint of a shred of self awareness, Kenny Farqharson observed that the SNP Pouters were a dodgy bunch, or words to that effect.

    26. scunner says:

      I work in the same office building, they had a piper, balloons and I even saw a mechanical bull outside yesterday which I assumed could only be for the “relaunch” party.

      I see nothing different on the website when perusing the comments. Just check out the trolling on today’s “Nichola Sturgeon says London not a threat to Scotland” story…

      They were offering the paper for free on the way into the building. My retort of “Why, have the toilets ran out of paper?” didn’t go down well – soor coupons all round!

    27. Achnababan says:

      Thank you Rev – and that’s from my medical advisor!

      My blood pressure is much lower since you started this expert dismantling of the Unionist media and their vile propoganda.

    28. gordonbrownstuff says:

      Death to the hootsmon and all assorted unionist rags. We see you for what you are-mouthpieces of the ukok establishment no lie to big or ridiculous when it comes to slandering the SNP or the indy movement.

      A one way street of distortions/deliberate omissions/lies that would make pravda blush. See also BBC/STV/other print media.

    29. Luigi says:

      Harry McAye says:

      29 September, 2015 at 12:35 pm

      How The “Scotsman” is still in business baffles me. Who is buying it? The other day in Sainsburys they had ONE on sale, while there was about a dozen Nationals, this was about 10am!

      The proud Scotchman is almost certainly on life-support at the moment. It may be currently used as a headline-grabber tool in the fight against independence, by a few shady individuals and organisations. However, once readership falls below a certain level (diminishing returns), it will no longer be deemed useful and financial support will be removed. Keep the pressure on – something has to give.

    30. gordoz says:

      Excellent work at rooting out the Blue Nose Ukok nutters the media were trying desperately to hide.

      Historically passed off as over exuberant youth – after September 19th GSq riots; dangerous idiots that need brought to account;
      named and shamed.

      Hope their employers are made aware and take deserved action.

    31. Effijy says:

      The Scotsman obviously has nothing I common with the vast majority of Scots, so I wondered what the name did represented:

      Scaremongering. Corruption. Obstreperous. Tedious. Stagnant. Malicious. Arbitrary. Narcissistic.

      It makes sense now!

    32. Philip Dixon says:

      This is one of the propagandists’ oldest tricks.

      I remember the first time I noticed it, as a young teenager (or perhaps even younger), when I realised that the BBC and every other outlet would always ascribe IRA violence (quite rightly) to the IRA, but would say that unspecified “terrorists” were responsible if a Loyalist group had committed an atrocity. It was quite a shock to my innocent younger self to realise that every bombing wasn’t down to the IRA.

    33. gordoz says:

      How many read the Daily Telegraph in Scotland? Is is some kind of Rangers News ?

      Never come across a copy myself anywhere and wont touch it after this rubbish. (Desperation comes to mind)

      Clearly another very poor Establishment rag.

    34. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T – Apologies.

      Now that Carmichael’s case is going forward I’d like to let the O&S Petitioners know that more funds will be given from me should they need them.

    35. Lesley-Anne says:

      So despite next to nothing being reported on 19th September 2014 about riots in George Square there were in riots … who knew? I mean really who knew … apart from the YES supporters who were there and US!

      It would appear that all the media, STV and BBC were still at the seaside with their heads stuck in the sand singing La La La La La! 😀

    36. Lesley-Anne says:

      Silly wee question from the village idiot here. 😉

      As Carmichael case is now going to court I wonder if he will stick it out or will he do what he should have done month’s ago and resign? 😉

    37. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says:

      Alex Salmond said the better educated people are on the issues the more they move to YES

      … which is absolutely crucial. The more people who have their eyes opened to the wider picture, the stronger YES becomes.

      And, it’s a one way street. You can’t undo knowledge.

      Considering the converse explains a lot. The MSM and BBC can only influence those who still believe their narrow biased view. Obviously those are the ones they target. The rest of us just look on at their output with ever increasing astonishment!

    38. bjsalba says:

      Relaunch of the Scotsman? I’m confused. I thought it was up for sale – at a very low price. I have to assume they got no takers.

      What is their circulation, by the way?

      This article is from last March so we have to assume a downwards trajectory.

    39. Clootie says:

      Well done Rev

      Another story that could have delivered a propaganda twist below the radar had you not drawn attention to it.

      I’m very pissed off but better informed now.

      …this is passed off as journalism?

    40. Iain More says:

      Well I thought I would switch on Disreporting Jackie today to see if they would cover the Carmichael case and I was immediately turned to stone by the SNP Bad headline that SNP gave £150k to keep T in the whatever in Jockistan, it was the sight of Medusa Mary Scanlon that rigoured me to the spot.

      The flesh only finding motion again at the news that Carbuncle has to return to Court. The BBC fangs are clearly dripping at that news and still they cant report Frenchgate honestly. Oh well just as well I don’t pay the TV tax any longer.

      I wont make the mistake of turning on Disreporting Jackie again. The sight of Medusa Mary was just too much.

    41. woosie says:

      Another few readers who’ve finally had enough switching to The National today, surely. I read The National daily, but if it ever misreported an issue in such a manner I’d stop it. And I agree that readership must be on the rise, as it’s commonly sold out in any shop I go into.

      I’ve also finally stopped watching the ebc completely. Up to Corby the Impostor’s recent anti-Scots rant, I’d watch their news just to check what they weren’t reporting, but I’ll no longer allow my set to register on their figures.

    42. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T – Apologies (again).

      Labour conference has just voted to renew Trident.

      GYTF Corbyn.

    43. Lesley-Anne says:

      bjsalba says:
      29 September, 2015 at 1:51 pm

      Relaunch of the Scotsman? I’m confused. I thought it was up for sale – at a very low price. I have to assume they got no takers.

      I’ve found 13 pence down the back of the sofa, do you think I’ve got any chance of buying the Scotsman BJ? 😀

    44. scunner says:

      Revamp, minor design changes. Still the same Bias, the two Brians likely still have columns, same wackjobs commenting online.

      As the Rev says: tick tock

    45. G H Graham says:

      It’s not just BritNat zoomers who have their fingers in their ears.

      Culture Secretary, Ms. Fiona Hyslop filled pages of copy with misguided waffle about the BBC yielding wholesale editorial control, production, content & budgets to Scotland as part of its reconstituted Charter.

      Which planet is she on? The BBC is the most rigid pillar of the British Establishment & will NEVER relinquish ANY of its authority to Scotland.

      The reason is really simple; as long as most of the money & all of the authority rests in London, there will never emerge a danger, that the viewers & listeners in Scotland will hear two sides of an argument instead of the one they only ever hear which is one through the prism of London.

      If that were to happen, independence would be a slam dunk.

    46. Lesley-Anne says:

      Here’s a piece from the New Statesman about the vote by Labour to renew Trident. Well done Labour, any chance you had of members returning to you from Scotland just flew out of the window.

    47. yesindyref2 says:

      We live in a world where total dishonesty, disgusting lying, is normal behaviour with newspapers, media, labour, conservative and liberal politicans, and companies in general. Take this I got in spam right now:

      “You are receiving this email because you have expressed interest in Clifton Asset Management Plc”

      No I didn’t, I never did, and it’s a catchall email address for spam list sellers. But they don’t care, they just lie their heads off, if it makes their causes.

    48. heedtracker says:

      Much like their defence of unionist thugs, another day, another display of Classic BBC Scotland propaganda on Carmicheal. It is a v v bad look for UKOK unionists but they still give the false impression that their memo was based on fact and Carmicheal only actually may have lied about who gave it to UKOK media, until the end bit if their vote no grot.

    49. Ken500 says:

      Brainwashed since the day they were born, into tribal behaviour. Any thing for a rammy to get noticed. The energy of 18-24 year old males. Many think they will lose their benefits. Paid by Scottish taxpayers. With Independence they would more likely have a job.

      Their actions have been brought to book, this time for a change. The MSM are a disgrace. They be brought to book by losing readers and their jobs.

    50. Luigi says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      29 September, 2015 at 2:03 pm

      O/T – Apologies (again).

      Labour conference has just voted to renew Trident.

      GYTF Corbyn.


    51. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      louis.b.argyll at 11.57

      I’m with you entirely
      I have always believed we should attack and destroy these organs one by one.

      The Scotsman is an easy target. So are the Mail and infantile Express (though it is so infantile that it doesn’t get quoted) which have much larger circulations.

      I’d happily subscribe to any crowdfunding effort that would,for instance, produce nationwide billboarding or scathing “Not the Scotsman” newspapers (very cheap to produce).

    52. gordoz says:

      Corbyns Speech Now –

      Striking how ‘Straight talking & honesty’ received no applause at all !!

      Do you think the hall new that was not really a Labour Value or something they could live up to ??

      Wow; just wow !!

    53. Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      So just to be clear and have a bit of a recap – On anti austerity Mr Mc Donnell is still choosing to follow austerity measures. On Trident, Labour is still pro renewal. On straight talking, honest, kinder, bottom up consensus driven politics Mr Corbyn, Mr McDonnell and Ms Dugdale have all denigrated the SNP and mislead the public about Scottish government policy.

      Y’know his kinder, cuddlier, fluffy new direction Labour seems awfy like the old New, noo, one nation Labour t’me.

    54. As someone who joined Scottish C.N.D in the year of its creation, 1958, can I just express my disgust at the decision to renew Trident taken at the Labour Party Conference.
      I am someone who has always urged caution in the calling of another referendum, and I know Nicola has said there would have to be a gamechanger before such a happening, but between Osbourne’s appearance at Faslane a couple of weeks ago, £500m to be spent on upgrading the facilities before Westminster have even agreed to replace this useless weapon of mass distruction,and now this news, my blood pressure is at boiling point.
      The sheer arrogance of these people knows no bounds in condeming, not only the present generation, but future generations of Scots to a potential nuclear disaster, not necessarily from war, but an accidental detonation.
      Sorry about going o/t, but I just had to get it off my chest while thinking about what kind of future my great-grandchildren are being condemed to,if they decide to stay in Scotland.

    55. heedtracker says:

      But the conference in fact went further than merely not debating Trident. In a little-noticed vote yesterday, it endorsed full renewal. The Britain In The World policy report included a paragraph committing the party to supporting a continuous-at-sea-deterrent, which would entail the replacement of all four submarines.”

      From New Statesman linked up there. So now we’ll have to listen to Kezia and co explain how they are really really really against trident nukes but only if it’s multi lateral disarmament, having bought four more Trident 2 subs. And JC says he’ll keep anti nuke campaigning too! Just for kicks presumably.

    56. yesindyref2 says:

      News from the Carmichael case: “Judges call for further evidence in Alistair Carmichael election court case”.

      So it’s past the first hurdle, where the defence attempted to get it thrown out as not being applicable to S106.

    57. galamcennalath says:


      Yes, they all try to deflect from the real story. However, perhaps the real story isn’t in the details of this character but in the fact that the MSM effort seems coordinated. By whom?

    58. Marga says:

      OT too early in the thread, many apologies, but serious:

      Catalan acting president Mas today summoned to appear in court, 2 days after winning the elections with an absolute majority for independence.

      Faces instant debarring from office as do 2 ministers, with no right to self defence (emergency change in Spanish law only this month).

      His crime? Calling an unofficial referendum on independence on November 9 last year.

      Spanish justice said it did not act earlier so as “not to interfere with the election” (i.e. to prevent independence from getting even more support).

    59. yesindyref2 says:

      Hasn’t happened yet, the Main Gate vote isn’t until next year, and there’s still the SDSR 2015 to come through. That gives an opportunity, slim though it might be, for the UK Gov to decide not to go ahead with the Successor program, but spend the money on conventional defence instead, such as MPA, perhaps more Astute, F35-B and so on.

      I don’t think, for instance, they can afford 13 Type 26 frigates as well as Trident, so it may be a case of Successor and 6 Type 26 (keep some T23 going), or scrap Successor and allow Vanguard to come to end of life in around 2030.

    60. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think we have all just blinked in unison Macart. I say blinked cause we have all missed the straight talking, honest, kinder, bottom up consensus driven politics as promised by messers Corbyn, McDonnell, Dugdale and others.

      We are now, apparently, back to the old style, almost Blairite style, of Labour. Talk shite then dive round the back of the bike sheds for tea and sandwiches with the unions before reappearing to talk even more shite!

    61. louis.b.argyll says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      29 September, 2015 at 2:36 pm
      louis.b.argyll at 11.57

      I’m with you entirely
      I have always believed we should attack and destroy these organs one by one.

      Dave, you suggest crowdfunding of ‘contradictory’ billboards etc to counter the lies etc…that may soften the blows to the truth that the lies dish out..BUT..

      The lies will always be one step ahead.

      We need to remove these liars from the news-stands.

      Maybe buy up all the copies on the shelves, take them to a trestle table on the street and padlock them down.

      (offer to cut out the crossword, classifieds, sports results and telly bits)

      If lies are being spread, we have the right and the duty to censor those publications.

      One paper, in each town of our choice, for a full week, (Sunday off)

      I’ll start it off.

      Another idea would be to find some dogs dirt on the street, go buy a Scotsman, telegraph or Record, and place them where they belong, under a turd.


    62. Luigi says:

      If Corbyn and his crazy gang keep on this mad, right-turn course, there will be lots of people demanding their three quid back! (apart from the blue tory infiltrators, who will consider it money well spent).

    63. Luigi says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      29 September, 2015 at 2:59 pm

      News from the Carmichael case: “Judges call for further evidence in Alistair Carmichael election court case”.

      So it’s past the first hurdle, where the defence attempted to get it thrown out as not being applicable to S106.

      Another sweaty night for the Carbuncle. Good! Long may it continue. This ain’t over until the Carbuncle sings (or crashes).

    64. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      Labour … “endorsed full renewal” … of Trident

      Another nail in the Union’s coffin.

      The ‘perfect storm’ is not far away. Failed Scotland Bill, EU chaos, Trident and Tory extremism.

    65. Laura says:

      Iain More –

      Your use of the word ‘retarded’ to describe Christie is a complete insult to those with learning disabilities.
      I am sure you could find a better word that doesn’t insult a whole raft of people who actually have feelings and who do NOT behave in the way Christie does. Your insinuation that ‘retarded’ somehow means some sort of nasty piece of humanity, is not very becoming of you.

      Thank you

    66. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Michael McCabe 12.30 Want tae spend ah few days wie me, bring yer ain cushion lol.

    67. Kenny says:

      I presume he is one of the “hundreds” of kids who leave primary school unable to read, according to Dugdale… (oops, he graduated under unionists).

      Or is the illiterate one the editor of the Hootsman???

    68. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have to say Marga, in light of the news from Spain I thin, in my full blown village idiot mode, that we could be on the verge of full blown hell erupting in Spain over this.

      I know that Spain claim to have some sort of law that prohibits regions becoming/declaring independence. This however runs directly in the face of what would appear to be democracy in Spain.

      If Senor Mas and two of his ministers are barred from holding office I wonder if we will see a case up in front of the E.C.H.R. with the Spanish government as the defendant.

      I do believe we are set for some really interesting times ahead with regards Catalunya’s independence. 🙂

    69. I have just heard, whilst changing T.V channels, the fraud Corbyn invoking the memory of Keir Hardie. Is there no depths these people won’t stoop?

    70. ronnie anderson says:

      Jeremy,s working on the Building of Love
      The wise man build his house on rocks
      The foolish man built his house on sand
      Weil no need tae huff n puff tae knock doon your hoose, Strawman.

    71. Robert Louis says:

      Well, well Mr. Carmichael, oh what a tangled web you have woven.

      I guess a certain Mr. Mundell will have a sleepless night tonight.

      Interesting times.

      As for Labour endorsing Trident at their conference, well what a surprise. Now Jeremy Corbyn is an uber british nationalist, loves ‘our’ Queen, and ‘leads’ a labour party committed to Trident nuclear weapons. Aye, jeremy Corbyn, a man of principle indeed.

    72. Sinky says:

      Corbyn does not appear to know much about the main founder of the Labour Party, the Scot Keir Hardie.

      His first parliamentary by-election was in 1888 in Mid Lanark. His advocacy for Scottish home rule (or independence) drew the backing of the newly formed Scottish Home Rule Association. Its secretary was Ramsay MacDonald, who was associated with Hardie for the rest of the latter’s life. In 1898, the two went to Birmingham to cheer for Scotland as its football team beat England. More importantly, MacDonald was to become the first Labour Prime Minister. They made a formidable pair in regard to home rule.

      Hardie wrote in 1889: “I believe the people of Scotland desire a Parliament of their own and it will be for them to send to the House of Commons a body of men pledged to obtain it.” The following month he called a meeting in Glasgow that went on to form the Scottish Labour Party, which soon merged into the Independent Labour Party.

      Keir Hardie’s first manifesto for the Scottish Labour party famously had three key aims: home rule, a minimum wage, and temperance. Corbyn only supports one of these!

    73. manandboy says:


      1. Corbyn’s rise is Carmichael’s demise.

      2. We are at war. The anti-Independence Unionist Alliance, aka Better Together, is clearly still together and performing daily – and continues to use the Labour Party and the BBC to front it, with Kezia as the lead vocalist.
      The War Room at No 10 Downing St will be orchestrating the campaign of course to make sure the PR barrage is unceasing and that Kezia Dugdale, in particular, gets her daily lines to read to the media.

      3. Only one thing explains the Westminster Unionist Establishment’s unremitting efforts to demonise the SNP & Yes campaign ; Scotlands value to England is far greater than we think.

      4. The SNP continues to fail in adequately countering the propaganda in the areas where the lies are most effective. For example, Fiona Hyslop is doing a Blair Jenkins. Has she started hugging McQuarrie and Boothman at meetings yet?

      5. Corbyn will have had it made clear to him by Cameron that the preservation of the Union must be his over-riding priority.

    74. Lesley-Anne says:

      I guess a certain Mr. Mundell will have a sleepless night tonight.

      Personally I’m hoping he has a good many more than just the one sleepless night RL. 🙂 There again I do have a somewhat little matter of absolute loathing for this poor example of a pipsqueak little elf! 😀

    75. Molly says:

      Sorry I know this is OT but just saw a post on my FB and don’t know if it’s true? Is the Queen really going to change the name of Leuchars to Waterloo Barracks?

      Anyone know if this is a wind up ?

    76. Marcia says:


      Now that the Carmichael case has passed the first hurdle will the fundraisers for Carmichael make a re-appearance? Carmichael was confident that the case would have been thrown out at the first hurdle. No so.

    77. sinky says:

      When Keir Hardie was around Home Rule meant independence.
      Corbyn supports Irish Home Rule but not Scottish Home Rule thats why he never mentioned Keir Hardie’s principal aims.

    78. mumsyhugs says:

      Marcia @ 3.40

      Funds have already started being paid in to the existing fundraiser over the last couple of hours! Folks are nae hingin aboot waiting to be asked! 🙂

    79. yesindyref2 says:

      The name of the east side of RAF Leuchars has been changed to Waterloo Lines, to reflect being the barracks of the Royal Scots Guards who captured the French standard at the battle of Waterloo (well, the RS Greys did). As far as I know the base itself remains called Leuchars. As does the actual train station and town I hope!

    80. call me dave says:


      Glad to be back in my ane hoose at last, been in Oban for a while, no WIFI at the parents in-law. The bottom line is that the Lib-Dem vote is still the same there, my mother in-law is up and about again after an short illness.

      Lots to catch up on…Just heard Jeremy’s speech. He thanked everyone, but not the ‘Aintree iron’…whatever that is.

    81. yesindyref2 says:

      I don’t think it’s the whole base, just the eastern part of it. I daresay this was a bit of a deliberate provocation for Indy supporters, wind us up and make us over-react.

    82. yesindyref2 says:

      Apologies to the RSDG, it’s Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, who were formed by the amalgamation of Royal Scots Greys and the 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales’s Dragoon Guards) .

    83. Macart says:


      Wouldn’t put it past them right enough. How and ever they can call it anything they like. Names can be changed for the better, just like referendum results. 🙂

    84. Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      Frankly I hope fluffy is shitting red hot conkers at this point.

    85. Lesley-Anne says:

      I worked at R.A.F. Leuchars for a wee while, many many many moons ago, and Leuchars will ALWAYS be Leuchars to me. I don’t care what Cameron and his millionaire buddies want to call it!

    86. heedtracker says:

      Rancid the Gruan says vote JC or be left behind by the tide of new new new Labour. So Vote JC turned out to be usual Lab electioneering but Scotlland needs to ask if it wants PM JC fingering that button and launching Armageddon on all the enemies of teamGB, having told us to vote JC and get teamGB nukes scrapped.

      What a UKOK pickle. Vote JC! He’s all new and exciting and don’t worry Glasgow, you’re still part of a world power capable, willing and wide past/present experience of destroying anyone and anything, not on the scale what they’ve done in the Middle East though, much much bigger bangs than that world power old school stuff. Death, death, death, vote JC, he’s new and exciting. After they do launch Trident at the very least the BBC will be there at rememberance day, remembering and transmitting to all the lads in the UKOK trident subs and that’s it.

    87. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I tried to listen carefully to Corbyn’s speech, but, sleep overtook me about 20 minutes in.

      When I woke up, he was still droning on and on. A poor speech, badly edited (if at all), no unifying thread running through it.

      Thanksfully for the cause of Scottish Independence, he will not do – there will be no SLAB come-back in the short-to-medium term.

    88. Lesley-Anne says:

      Macart says:
      29 September, 2015 at 4:17 pm

      @Lesley Anne

      Frankly I hope fluffy is shitting red hot conkers at this point.

      He bloody well ought to be Macart … I’ve force fed him enough of the red hot wee buggers! 😀

    89. scotsbob says:

      Has that Labour councillor from England, Marie Rimmer, had her court case yet? I remember it was postponed on a technicality, what is the outcome?

    90. Andy-B says:

      Even a dying rag such as the Scotsman, can still attack the independence movement.

      Of course we really need broadcasting devolved to Scotland.

    91. Molly says:

      Thanks for that info about Leuchars- I suppose it could be worse , it could be the Royaltiest , royal , really royal barracks there’s ever been ever! Dearie me -what next ?

    92. Lesley-Anne says:

      scotsbob says:
      29 September, 2015 at 4:43 pm
      Has that Labour councillor from England, Marie Rimmer, had her court case yet? I remember it was postponed on a technicality, what is the outcome?

      The prosecutors have re-issued the charges against her Scotsbob.

    93. galamcennalath says:

      SNP press release on Labour’s renewed commitment to Trident.

      Looks like there is only one way to get nukes off the Clyde.

    94. robertknight says:

      The measure of the Hootsmon is that it employs Anal Encroach as a “journalist”.

      ‘Nuff said!

    95. manandboy says:

      1800 soldiers to be relocated to the former RAF Base at Leuchars. That’ll be a useful boost to the No Campaign, and they’ll be needed to subdue any insurrection in St Andrews.

      Expect further troop movements. We might even get a glimpse of some of the 500 armoured personnel carriers which Cameron ordered at a cost of £4.2 billion.

      Better Together with the British army in the colonies.

    96. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T – Apologies.

      Herald headline: “Corbyn predicts Labour will win Scottish Pariament elections”. Article closed for comments. How so very typical of The Herald.

      Also – SNP MP, Michelle Thomson being investigated by police for property/mortgage fraud.

    97. heedtracker says:

      Looks like its a bbc black out on Labour vote YES for Trident 2 at their conference today. Why would these frauds be keeping that back from their Scotland region?

      Just the ongoing monstering of SNP and T in the Park.

    98. Lesley-Anne says:

      Looks like there is only one way to get nukes off the Clyde.

      Oh I’m no so sure that there is only ONE way to get shot of the nukes off the Clyde galamcennalath. 😉

      I see that there is a nice wee narrowing at the entrance to the Gare Loch between Rhu and Rosneath. Now I’m not a subversive sort of person … YET! 🙂

      However, if I were I think I could see this narrow 500 Metre (approx) gap as an ideal place to *ahem* lose, actually stretch 😉 , a load of old fishing nets between.

      I hear rumours that submarines don’t work too well with fishing nets entangled around them. 😀

      Non submarine traffic would not need to worry though cause I’m certain the *cough* obstructions could be removed for their safe passage. 😀,-4.7891167,2399m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

    99. heedtracker says:

      Future Scottish First Minister Professor Smirky also not in the least interested in Trident 2 and red tory allying themselves with his blue toryness. Very odd.

      Paul Hutcheon ?@paulhutcheon 7m7 minutes ago
      Crown Office refusing to say *when* it instructed police to look at controversial property deals that involved Michelle Thomson MP @thesnp

      BBC Scotland go after Hyslop and cyber britnats go after Thompson. Maybe the greatest U turn of the red tory day hasn’t reached Slovenia yet?

    100. Edward says:

      I see the Herald has a new ‘Corbyn’ article written up by Kate Devlin, entitled “Corbyn predicts Labour will win in next year’s Scottish Parliament elections”

      For some strange reason the Herald is not allowing comment
      Perhaps the online derision would have been too much for them

    101. caz-m says:

      Kezia hates the site of Corbyn, the majority of his fellow MPs hate the sight of him, yet BBC Scotland, STV and the rest of the Scottish media seem to think that he will be a vote winner in Scotland.

      Why should Scotland support him, when the majority of his Party don’t.

      They still think we are ready to take in this Unionist bullshit.

      Wake up Scotland! Tell Corbyn where to go.

    102. scotspine says:

      Isn’t the Scotsman “Newspaper” lying on the ground breathing with a wheezy death rattle?

    103. gordoz says:

      Corbyn predicts Labour will win in next year’s Scottish Parliament elections – Herald (North Britain).

      Based on – Straight talking & Honesty.

      Q- How many full members does Labour have in Scotland (Excluding Affiliates & Supporters) ???

      Clock ticking …..

    104. gordoz says:


      Hyslop hassles.

      Would political opportunists be happy to pay for costs of any inquiry if (as likely) unsuccessful ?

      Since were only talking about questioning £150,000

    105. Lochside says:

      I’m sure this loyalist ned will receive a slap on the wrist and a recommendation to join Britain’s ‘newest combat Regiment’: the aptly named ‘Scottish and North Irish Yeomanry’ based in Edinburgh, Ayr,Cupar and eh..Belfast.

      Commissioned on 31st October 2014, this’ reserve’ of disparate nationalities, but all Empire loyalists together has a fleet of light military vehicles with heavy enough weapons, conveniently placed in the central belt to gather ‘intelligence’ and quell any unruly rabble planning to disturb the Queen’s peace….

      Unless they are Nazi-saluting, bigoted ragged arse tory loyalist scum….sorry, Better together supporters.

      On their FB site ‘Thanks to Babcock Industry for tour of Rosyth today’…dated 25th September….joint defence meeting get together, eh chaps?

    106. galamcennalath says:

      gordoz says:

      Corbyn predicts Labour will win in next year’s Scottish Parliament elections

      Based on – Straight talking & Honesty.

      Every politicians has to talk their own side up and sound optimistic, but talking complete shite will only make him seem utterly out of touch. Labour’s fall from grace has taken place over at least ten years. The best they can hope for in May is to deny the SNP an overall majority. And that is a tall order, given the GE and the polls.

      Also, he has got off to a dreadful start – lies, or at best twisted half truths – then sneakily signing up for Trident.

      Totally brilliant, though. Keep at it Jeremy 😉

    107. desimond says:

      The sight of a happy Andy Burnham clapping along there and chatting with colleague next to him…says it all really.

      For the last 2 days all I have heard in my head are the words “The GMB have urged a renewal of Trident”. What a crazy messed up world we have to call home.

      Its a House of Cards and someone has left the door open. Wont be long afore there’s a Northern breeze getting up!

    108. Robert Louis says:

      So now we know for sure, despite all the rhetoric, Labour has now endorsed Trident nuclear weapons, yet again. If you want them out of Scotland, vote SNP/SNP, and then YES in the next independence referendum.

      Honestly, nothing has changed with Labour, they are still clinging to exactly the same policies they did with Miliband.

      The only way we will get thos cursed nuked out of central Scotland, is through independence, and an end to London red or blue tory rule.

    109. Luigi says:

      Marcia says:
      29 September, 2015 at 3:40 pm


      Now that the Carmichael case has passed the first hurdle will the fundraisers for Carmichael make a re-appearance? Carmichael was confident that the case would have been thrown out at the first hurdle. No so.

      I still think he will get let off, Marcia. However, you just never know. Whatever happens, it is rather splendid to see him sweat a bit more. 🙂

    110. Ken500 says:

      ‘Dirty British Girls’ – ‘Insane Fights & Dirty videos’ ?


    111. JLT says:

      Un …bloody …believable!!

      I truly, truly hate our wonderful and glorious ‘impartial’ State media.

      It’s so god-damn awful, and so one-sided, that it makes the Soviet media of Pravda look pretty tame (and even rather sane!)

      They say we are a democracy …but for who? After having veil after veil removed before my eyes in these last four odd years, the only democracy that exists is for those in control; free to do the bloody hell whatever they want. That to me is freedom!

      For the rest of us …it’s feudalism on a long leash (and we’re meant to be thankful for it too! Salute the Union Jack and three cheers for the Queen! Hip-hip-hooray!)

      Honestly, the UK has to be one of the most controlling and manipulating nations that has ever truly existed in history.

    112. Cag-does-thinking says:

      The most important question isn’t that this deliberate misleading is happening but if it is being co-ordinated as news then by whom?

      Probably worth getting shares in some of these papers just to be able to ask awkwards questions on editorial policy at the AGM, not of course that we would do that.

    113. Rock says:

      Proud Cybernat,

      “Herald headline: “Corbyn predicts Labour will win Scottish Pariament elections”.”

      I hope SNP supporters are not stupid enough to give their 2nd (list) vote to the Greens or Socialists.

      Absolutely no time to take any risks. Give both votes to the SNP to have the best chance of re-electing a majority SNP government in 2016.

      Don’t be duped by the Greens. They are today what the Lib Dems were yesterday.

      Independence first, everything else later.

    114. Ken500 says:

      The majority in Scotland think spending money on T in the Park is worth it. It being income into the area and helps the local economy. It would have been a grant to move to Perth. What’s the fuss about. The Edinburgh Festival gets gov money. The Commonwealth Games got public money. Ballet, Opera and theatre projects get government support. The Turner Prize is being held in Glasgow. Exhibitions are held in Kelvingrove. V & A has public support. ACC are spending £33Million doing up an Art Gallery and refusing a £80Million Gift to pedestrianise the City. Building a carbuncle and renting it back, wasting £Millions/Billions Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      Pity about the Traffic chaos at TITP but it must get TV rights etc and increase music and export sales worldwide. Many whisky companies pay no tax under UK Law.

    115. donald anderson says:

      As clear and straight talking and honest as Jeremiah Corbyn’s New/Old Labour Conference spin.

    116. Rock says:


      “News from the Carmichael case: “Judges call for further evidence in Alistair Carmichael election court case”.

      So it’s past the first hurdle, where the defence attempted to get it thrown out as not being applicable to S106.”

      All this means is that the judge has decided that enough funds have not yet poured down into the legal sewer and this farce should go on a bit more.

      The lying defaming Carmichael has already been cleared in secret by the free masons that run the justice system.

      The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, expecially judges, are the lowest of the low.

    117. Iain More says:

      Well Britannia TV Aberdeen’s first story could be summarised as Carbuncle VERY GOOD and SNP WICKED. The second item was just SNP BAD SNP EVIL. I have no idea what the third item was as I hit the off button on the remote but I am guessing it was another SNP bad item.

      I hope the advertisers who buy advertising space at that time catch Economic Ebola!

    118. dakk says:

      O/T Sorry.

      Now that Corbyn has been exposed as Establishment, I expect to see the MSM,even in England, be somewhat more temperate in their treatment of him as he is no longer a risk.

      In fact I already detect an almost benign tone to the reporting of the Labour conference even from the Blue Tory media.

      This will undoubtedly mean both red and blue Tory media in Scotland will lionise him to the hilt here as a bulwark against Independence.

      I have no doubt the Establishment think they have a useful idiot they can use against Scotland even if they did allow him to be PM.

    119. Ken500 says:

      A majority in Catalonia didn’t vote for a Referendum on Independence. 2Million voted YES on an 80% turnout. Electorate is 5.5Million? 80% is 4.4Million. 2.4Million voted NO.

      “Pop is 7.5Million. (‘men, women and children + foreigners living there’) Only 5.5 million have the vote. A Million? Foreigners (EU citizens? ) are not allowed to vote. EU citizens have the vote in EU and municipal elections not in National or regional ones. Turnout was 77.44%

      EU residents in Spain? do not have the vote. EU citizens are supposed to be treated equally. It is against EU law to discriminate.

      Cameron intends to do the same in the EU Referedum prevent EU citizens in Britain from voting. They are allowed to vote in GE in the UK. Discriminate against EU citizens.

      If certain groups had been prevented from voting in Scottish Referendum. YES would have won by an increased majority. There is always next time as support grows.

    120. EphemeralDeception says:


      Since 1972 the Scots Greys has no longer existed, dead, defunct, gone. The Scots Dragoons is an oxymoron and has had nothing to do with Waterloo as you stated.

      I wonder what veterans of the Scots Greys thinks of the name change?

      What we have are remnants of Welsh/English and Scottish regiments setup as a British imperial Cavalry, currently based in Scotland. They might as well change the names as it has FCUK all to do with Scotland and will serve as a reminder.

      It looks like old Scottish traditions do not really exist except on informal occasions.

      All this is, from my external viewpoint, is part of the decline and deterioration of anglo British culture imposed on our soil. It won’t last.

    121. Grouse Beater says:

      Jeremy Corbyn’s conference speech in epitome:

      “Group hug, everybody!”

    122. Grouse Beater says:

      Jeremy Corbyn makes his long-awaited pronouncement on the SNP:

      “Tartan Tories!”

    123. gordoz says:

      Carmichael case >

      Lets get one thing straight Carmichael will get off thas clear as establishment will close ranks.

      But any lengthening of this case that causes this shamed scoundrel to give evidence is some reward at least.

    124. Kenlike says:

      Ah, Kieran

      Lovely Celtic name

      Means “little dark one” or “blacky”. Make of that what you will.

    125. Ruby says:

      Does anyone know anything about the ‘Friends of The Scotsman’ apparently for £300 a year you can have six articles published. How many friends do they have and do they charge extra if you commission one of The Scotsman’s ‘journalists’ to write the article.

      I reckon what might be happening at The Scotsman is that their ‘friends’ are keeping them afloat. It’s a case of he who pays the piper calls the tune. If ‘The Scotsman’ deviate in their articles & forums from what their ‘friends’ want then donations/advertising will dry up.

      They are probably not all that bothered about people buying the newspaper as long as they get the headlines that their ‘friends’ want then all is well & money will roll in.

      I wonder who wins the ‘revamp record’ is it ‘The Scotsman’ or ‘The Labour Party’

    126. mike cassidy says:

      Libdem Voice reaction to LiarCarmichael news here.

      Including reference to that dodgy fundraising site.

      Which raises again the question

      Is LiarCarmichael paying his costs or is it his party’s bill?

    127. manandboy says:

      Corbyn’s big speech today was second hand, first appeared in 2011 and was written by a Richard Heller.


      Let’s get real here – the guy’s a fraud.

    128. Lesley-Anne says:

      Is LiarCarmichael paying his costs or is it his party’s bill?

      Neither will be paying his legal bill, in my view, Mike. He will more than likely claim it all back on *ahem* expenses!

    129. Ruby says:

      The Scotsman can change the image online pretty easily but what about the hard copy?

      The image of the Saltires & Yes sticker will keep ‘The Friends of The Scotsman’ very happy The Scotsman might get some extra donations this week.

      I don’t think there will be many people in Scotland surprised by this story about The Scotsman & The Telegraph.

    130. Dr Jim says:

      How do you say “I love Nuclear Weapons” without actually saying it

      Well: You say “I’m a Multilateralist not a Unilateralist”

      Then everybody stops asking, but the thing is here, does anybody in the whole world with half a brain think the Americans would ever give up their Big Mighty Blessed by God Nukes

      The answer, NAW So these people who say this, are talking complete and utter Drivel just like what “I’m the leader, Naw ah really am” Dippity Dug keeps chuntering on about

      Just be honest Kez you lurv them B*i*g Nukeys

      What we need is more Honest and true and gentle politics now, just like her new temporary boss for the moment Professor Jeremy Crumbledor says

      Even tidied up Old Professor Crumbledor still looks like he needs another five minutes in the dryer to get the wrinkles out

      Nicola Sturgeon take note: Stop looking smart and start loving the bomb or the SNP are in for a Blow or a Setback or even a Shock which in turn could lead to a U-Turn which would cause the SNP to Crash out of politics Forever

      I’ve been “JOHN McKAY”

    131. Wuffing Dug says:

      El Corbo’s a fud.

      The English Fud Smurphy.

    132. Dr Jim says:


      And him a wee white supremacist tae

    133. Nana Smith says:

      O/T Re Carmichael court case

      “We want to hear evidence”

    134. Ken500 says:

      Colbyn speaks about ‘broken promises and lies’

      A total hypocrite.

    135. EphemeralDeception says:

      Living near Perpignan, I have been listening to the French news releases on the Catalan elections.

      There is a good article and video here for thos interested:,2090776.php

      What is interesting is that this vote for Cataluyna is the start of the process of independence from Spain. It is also important to not that the Mayor of Barcelona, who is supported by Podemos is neutral to independence.

      Its not clear what will happen next but Spains roadblocks will just push opinion towards independence. I think what happens in the next 12 months could have a major impact on the timing and outcome of Scot Indy ref. No2.

      So not only is trident/ EU referendum etc a factor but this is something to watch closely. I think and hope that these events are tilting the balance towards self determination in both cases.

    136. Michael McCabe says:

      @ Ronnie Anderson 3:17pm I am up for that Ronnie.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      From wiki: (RSDG) “It was formed on 2 July 1971 at Holyrood, Edinburgh, by the amalgamation of the 3rd Carabiniers (Prince of Wales’s Dragoon Guards) (themselves the product of the amalgamation in 1922 of 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales’s) and 6th Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers)), and The Royal Scots Greys (2nd Dragoons).

      From wiki: (Waterloo) “With the eagle captured, Sergeant Ewart was ordered to take the trophy off, denying the French troops a chance to recapture their battle standard. In recognition of his feat, he was promoted from sergeant to ensign.[57]

      Having defeated the column and captured one of its battle standards, the Scots Greys were now disorganised.”

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      At £300 for six articles, it must be costing Brian Wilson a fortune for his rubbish to get published.

    139. liz says:

      Hang on to your hats.

      Coincidentally today Michelle Thomson has resigned from the SNP whip temporarily, as a solicitor she had used to sell/buy a house has been struck off for possible mortgage fraud.

      Needless to say Nicola and the SNP are getting the blame and we know how this will be spun.

    140. yesindyref2 says:

      From libdemvoice: “Comments on this post will be moderated because of the ongoing legal proceedings, so cybernats need not bother.”

      So much for liberal values like freedom of speech! But we all knew that they’re long long gone.

      I think the LibDem party said they would pay Carmichael’s legal fees, I guess they’re running out of money because they need a crowdfund to help out. Poor things, the truth bleeds for them.

    141. galacennalath says:

      Catalonia. A nice presentation of the results …

      Although the Yes alliance failed to get 50%, the definite No parties only got 39%. Which clarifies why the Yes side wish to push onwards.

      There are ‘agnostic parties’ with 11%. They would accept independence but won’t necessarily push for it.

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, having read LPW, I think Mitchell should co-opt Sturgeon to cross-examine Carmichael: “Help me Rona”.

    143. Big Jock says:

      Let’s celebrate folks. Corbyn has come out as an agitator for Yes2:-D

      Talk about doing our work for us!

      Come home to Labour. We will put nuclear weapons in your country. All we ask is for your vote in return. Couldn’t make this stuff up.

      Incidently the media are going through the motions concerning the SNP Mp. I don’t think there is any tangible evidence against her. Yet the timing with Carmichaels case is entirely coincidental.

    144. Nana Smith says:

      @Liz and here we go, I might have known that creep Findley would have something to say.

    145. Grouse Beater says:

      “Jeremy Corbyn has got people talking” – SKY News.

      Yes, folks, reporters actually get paid to make such banal observations.

    146. galamcennalath says:

      Having read LPW on Carmicheal my understanding is 3 of the 4 defence arguments have been dismissed.

      The judges need evidence to test the fourth. What was his motive?

      “The petitioners must show … that he lied to save his own skin, rather than to dent the SNP nationally, or to diminish the credibility of Nicola Sturgeon as a political figure.”

    147. liz says:

      @Nana Smith – as expected.

    148. louis.b.argyll says:

      Someone say liberal values..?

      Don’t make me laugh..

    149. ronnie anderson says:

      @ galamcennlath Any one of the four points found proven he has a case to answer.He,s already admitted he lied during the Channel 4 interview, so he,s not a man of honour & that brings into ? his status as a lawyer. And still to determine why he & Rodden did it, he wont avoid the wittness box this time.

    150. Ruby says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      29 September, 2015 at 7:51 pm

      At £300 for six articles, it must be costing Brian Wilson a fortune for his rubbish to get published.

      Perhaps ‘Friends of Brain’ are helping him out. I have never been successful in posting a comment on a Brian Wilson article any time I tried my posts always got ‘deleted by moderator’.

      I reckon when you pay your £300 for six articles you also get to control the comments and delete anything you don’t like.

    151. Thepnr says:

      O/T re Carmichael. I’m glad to see that there is now a high probability that Carmichael will have to appear in court to explain his actions rather than hide away like he did for the first hearing.

      I’m not confident that the Establishment will allow a crowd funded action to actually succeed against one of their own.

      Doesn’t matter now, I think the point has been made and no matter which way it goes I do not see Carmichael ever standing again as an elected representative of the people of Orkney & Shetland.

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      The third is still opem. i.e. was it personal or political. If political it’s not covered by S106. So Carmichael would have to convince the court it was a political lie, made as the Secretary of State for Scotland.

      Then indeed the motive, did he do it to influence the electorate?

    153. yesindyref2 says:

      “Ann Paton, Lady Paton is a Scottish advocate and judge. She is a Senator of the College of Justice, sitting in the High Court of Justiciary and the Inner House of the Court of Session.”


      “Hugh Matthews, Lord Matthews is a Senator of the College of Justice, a judge of the Scotland’s Supreme Courts.”

      They’re Scottish establishment and Law, not UK.

    154. Ruby says:

      X_Sticks cheers for the link to the Noam Chomsky interview. Very interesting.

    155. Al-Stuart says:

      For completeness and in reply to the earlier postings about the progress of Alistair Carmichael MP and the current procedural detail.

      There is official news here that may be of interest to WoS readers…

      The hugely important legal hurdle upon which a major part of this litigation was dependent has been found in favour of the petitioners and against Carmichael. To quote the excerpt from the official Judiciary** pronouncement thus far…

      Judges in an Election Court petition brought by a number of constituents challenging the election of Alistair Carmichael as Liberal Democrat MP for Orkney and Shetland have ruled that “a false statement by a candidate about his own personal character or conduct made before or during an election for the purpose of affecting his return at the election has the effect of engaging section 106” of the Representation of the People Act 1983

      Whilst nothing at this stage in proceedings can be certain, what is apparent is that a significant part of Alistair Carmichael’s defence tactics just got it’s P45.

      Methinks Alistair may well chose to jump ship – resign promptly as an MP – rather than end up risking being subsequently debarred from practice as a solicitor should he be forcibly be removed as an MP by the court. Plus the difficulties in the inexorable external process that would see complaints being submitted to Police Scotland for investigation of alleged criminal law infraction.

      If this current case and law officers find against Alistair Carmichael, not only will he lose his seat as an MP, he is likely to be debarred from standing again for public office AND suffer professional conduct proceedings at the Law Society of Scotland in relation to his being allowed to work as a solicitor.

      A LOT to risk losing just to hope his lies will disappear if he continues on the arrogant tough-it-out and it will go away strategy he is trying to use.

      In other words, if Alistair Carmichael resigns now, he most likely gets to keep his public pension, and can probably still practice as a lawyer as well as avoid the distinct possibility of landing in jail. Though if that happened, being a slippery kipper, our Alistair is likely to collect £200 for passing GO !

      Then of course there is the big problem of what he might have to reveal under Oath – about who exactly had their fingerprints on all of this other than himself?

      A big pat on the back for those who were brave enough to take on the risks of legal action against this disgraceful lying MP.

      Interesting times indeed.


      Judicial Office for Scotland
      Parliament House
      EH1 1RQ

    156. crazycat says:

      @ Thepnr

      I’m sure I remember his saying that he intended to retire in 2020; without the current stushie he might of course have changed his mind when the time came (and may yet), but I did feel rather disappointed that there might never be an opportunity for his constituents to express their opinion of him at the ballot box.

    157. Kenny says:

      “The decision of the Electoral Court in the ‘People versus Carmichael’ case was published today. The judges have agreed that Mr. Carmichael’s behaviour may be covered by electoral law and have dismissed most of the arguments raised in his defence.

      So, thanks to you, the law is being clarified – and this is a real victory – candidates can no longer make false statements about themselves at a General Election – they must tell the truth.

      The judges now want to hear evidence about the nature, purpose, and context of Mr. Carmichael’s lies and this will probably involve him having to testify on oath.”

      Time for me to be donating more money to the cause!

      I am afraid Fiona Hyslop is a political lightweight who spends too much time self-publicising herself on twitter and not enough time learning to be a proper politician. I remember a particularly hopeless interview she gave to Andrew Neil on the eve of the indyref. Tommy Sheridan she is not and it is a pity she is taking up a cabinet seat which would be better going to him (maybe not as “culture” secretary).

      I don’t believe Michelle Thomson is guilty for a minute.

    158. boris says:

      Setting aside the rights or wrongs of Trident nuclear defence there is the problem of the on-going damage to the environment and health and well-being of those who live in and off the West coast of Scotland.

      Cancer and illness rates associated with exposure to nuclear radiation and chemicals discharged into the Clyde estuary at the Holy Loch, Faslane and other associated facilities is significantly higher than other parts of Scotland.

      The Yanks left 3000 tonnes of dangerous chemicals, drums, and other items of unacceptable waste at the bottom of the Holy Loch.

      The MOD finally cleared some of it 20 years after but accepted the sea bottom in the Holy Loch and other ports near to Arran was unsafe due to large and unexplained waste that had been left in situ..

      Addressing Faslane is as yet impossible but using the Yankee experience as a template it is horrendous to contemplate what lies beneath in the the Gare loch.

      The foregoing should be the argument to be placed before the Scottish electorate and it is of note that the Labour Branch in Scotland has not sought to give voice in the matter.

    159. Lesley-Anne says:

      Then of course there is the big problem of what he might have to reveal under Oath – about who exactly had their fingerprints on all of this other than himself?

      Interesting. Very interesting. In fact very VERY interesting. Isn’t it Mr. David “call me Fluffy” Mundell? 😀

      With this decision arising I’m thinking that the phone line between the “Liar” and “Fluffy” will currently be RED hot. On the one side we will no doubt have Fluffy begging the Liar to resign. On the other side we will have the Liar say NAW I’m going down and so is everyone else! 😀

    160. Thepnr says:


      Well I’m hoping your right regarding the Judges overseeing the Carmichael case. Still won’t get my hopes up though.


      He really has choice other than to walk, how much humiliation would he be willing to risk for himself?

    161. Al-Stuart says:

      Interesting to see the level of support Alistair Carmichael and the outrageous disgrace of serial SNP-abuser Shiela Ritchie’s GoFundMe page has raised. A pitiful: £7,305.

      Whilst the Orcadian & Shetland crowdfunder for legitimising democracy that is now likely to see lying MP Alistair Carmichael being dragged to court to give evidence under Oath has raised a staggering £91,283

      Shiela Ritchies slanderous anti-SNP comments, and ill-judged support of Alistair Carmichael has raised just 8% of what the main petitioners have managed. That in and of itself says so much about democracy and the public mood for honesty and justice.

      I’m off to pop a few more quid into the legal funds for the islanders taking the LibDem Fibber to court.

      Anyone care to join in – even just a £5 or a £10 will show the islanders they still have ongoing support…

    162. Al-Stuart says:

      Lesley-Anne, you make a good point about the telephone lines between Carmichael and Mundell ringing hot.

      What’s the betting we see Mr Carmichael resign in the next few days, and with absolutely no connection at all come the the New Years Honours we get Lord Carmichael of TangleWeb.

      It may seem improbable and arrogant, but then who amongst us would have reckoned the crass knighthood of Sir Danny Alexander would or could ever have happened?

      If one thing is for sure, LibDem’s just love grabbing personal knighthoods and Lordships.

    163. mumsyhugs says:

      Money flowing in nicely to the indiegogo Orkney fundraiser and a new update following today’s ruling! 🙂

    164. bookie from hell says:

      question of the day

      how do you change SNP 56 avatar twitter to 55?

    165. heedtracker says:

      “So, thanks to you, the law is being clarified – and this is a real victory – candidates can no longer make false statements about themselves at a General Election – they must tell the truth.

      The judges now want to hear evidence about the nature, purpose, and context of Mr. Carmichael’s lies and this will probably involve him having to testify on oath.”

      Should focus the minds of all those UKOK liars standing for Holyrood next year.

    166. crazycat says:

      @ Thepnr

      I agree with you that Carmichael should walk, but people like him still have the capacity to amaze with their brazenness. I shouldn’t be surprised; I’m not really, but I want to be, because it ought to be surprising. Ah well.

    167. Lesley-Anne says:

      Now that the Carmichael case is moving on to the next level then you may be right AS.

      Carmichael probably thought he knew better than those pesky islanders but now his defence has been seriously holed below the water line he may be giving resignation more serious considerations than before.

      I would not be surprised if Fluffy has been *ahem* advising Carmichael to resign … just so that he, Fluffy, can remain in post.

      To be honest AS I think there were quite a few who not necessarily knew but did expect Danny alexander to become enobled. Remember there were more than a few comments/jokes flying around before hand about “arise Sir Danny.” 😀

    168. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @bookie from hell,

      I think you picked up the wrong news (too much BBC perhaps).

      The real question of the day could be:

      How to you change SNP 56 Avatar Twitter to 57?


      I am not sure that Carmichael has the option to resign and stand again anymore? Has it not gone too far now and the Judges will want Carmichael in court regardless?

      Getting interesting – I wonder if deputy Mundell will be called as a witness?

    169. Effijy says:

      Isn’t it terrifying that the Scotsman, Evening Times, STV News, BBC, Scottish Daily Mail and more all seem to be coordinated
      in their corruption of the news and all to keep that Westminster
      status quo where the majority are robbed in favour of the rich

      The bodies should have no links to each other but obviously
      that all work in unison to keep the truth from the electorate.

      There is no freedom of the press, there is no genuine democracy,
      there is no UK decency or sense of justice from Westminster nor
      our Courts.

    170. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Al-Stuart Irrespective of wither Carmichael resigns as a MP or not, does’nt stop the hearing, he can only withdraw, & that in itself has consequences,he still committed a criminal act.

    171. Robert Peffers says:

      @Luigi says: 29 September, 2015 at 6:04 pm:

      “I still think he will get let off, Marcia. However, you just never know.”

      I believe the truth is, Luigi, that what really is on trial in this matter is the entire Scottish Legal system, The MSM and broadcasters. My reasoning is simple.

      Almost all the people of Scotland know that Carmichael is guilty as sin, even if they support him and Unionism and want him to get away with it.

      The Scottish legal system know this full well and they are, if nothing else, very, very jealous of their closed shop, lucrative and privileged status.

      The know, just as well as we do, that the Scottish Legal system and media have skated, for some considerable time, on exceedingly thin ice. Far too many blatant errors made and disgraced practitioners not being thrown out are known to the general public.

      If they were to let the public down on this matter then they probably will not be able to fend off a public reaction.

      Win, draw or lose, Carmichael has already been found guilty by the public. It now only remains for the Scottish legal system to decide if it will join him in disgrace.

      Like the MSM and Unionist owned broadcasters which the public have already found guilty, (That’s the reason why the public are increasingly refusing to buy their products), the Scottish Legal System must now prove whose side they are aligned with or suffer the consequences – and they know it.

      It is up to them whether they too will stand accused in the dock of the court of public acceptance.

    172. @yesindyref2

      They may be Scottish judges but they are sitting in a virtual UK court as was made clear early on in the proceedings as they report to Westminster not Holyrood.

    173. Lesley-Anne says:

      Getting interesting – I wonder if deputy Mundell will be called as a witness?

      I’m not so sure Fluffy will be called as a witness Hoss but he is definitely a candidate for future defendant! 😀

    174. Al-Stuart says:


      Sorry for going off topic from the dreadful MSM Coyness of the main thread, but I reckon the best remedy for MSM bias is to propagate what is in effect legal and electoral history in the making. Another news story that balances the coyness currently infecting MSM – and which MSM will NOT be able to ignore if Alistair Carmichael gets the boot, or resigns.

      Just digging a little deeper into the OFFICIAL Opinion of the Election Court just released today in the matter against Alistair Carmichael & Alistair Buchan…

      … it makes fascinating reading. Well it does if you are either a legal-beagle or alternatively a ripping yarn of the John Buchan 39 Steps book and film variety.

      By that I mean Alistair Carmichael’s legal team seemed to reckon they had this sewn up and the liar would get off Scott Free. Oh how that is no longer the case.

      Reading the official narrative of the Law Lords at the Election Court, whatever else, they are being extremely thorough, and the words on their official Opinion papers of court are very very important.

      Whatever else may now happen to Alistair Carmichael, it has gone from being a hopeless case for the petitioners to a very close run thing for Alistair’s future.

      The winners of course will be the electorate of Orkney and Shetland, who were, to be truthful CHEATED by Carmichael when he presented himself as a decent honest truthful candidate when he was anything but. Even in his own words he is a proven liar.

      Who would consider this liar fit for public office?


      By the way Bookie From Hell – I wouldn’t change your Twitter Avatar from 56 to 55 just et. There is a rumour sweeping Westminster that big round Al fae Orkney is writing his bye-bye speech – or rather it is now already written.

      So whilst SNP MP Michelle Thomson does the decent thing and gives up the SNP Party Whip pending an inquiry (now there’s a thing – an MP voluntarily stepping aside whilst an inquiry goes ahead) if the scuttlebutt about Mr Carmichael is true, then the 55 may well go back up to 56 (depending on how the good people of Orkney & Shetland vote).
      29 September, 2015 at 9:27 pm – Bookie from hell says: “How do you change SNP 56 avatar twitter to 55?”

    175. @mike cassidy

      My first comment on there has been moderated out so I have left another implying that Lying is now part of the LibDem constitution and wished them well with that.

    176. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 29 September, 2015 at 6:22 pm:

      “The majority in Scotland think spending money on T in the Park is worth it. It being income into the area and helps the local economy.”

      Spot on, Ken500.

      “What’s the fuss about. The Edinburgh Festival gets gov money. The Commonwealth Games got public money. Ballet, Opera and theatre projects get government support.”

      Aye! and a lot of far less worthy stuff too. I’ll tell you what really gars me grue. The wealthy owners of big private houses and estates. They are supported by the government, local authorities and such as Scottish Heritage. It sure wasn’t my Scottish heritage – I was born on a farm in a Pluchie’s Raw with no piped gas, electricity, indoor drainage or toilets. One main room with bed recesses, a bedroom and a scullery.

      My late wife and I were great ones for touring with either a caravan or a motor home and we visited almost every corner of the British Isles and knew every passable road in Scotland.

      A favourite run was to the Grey Mare’s Tail, St Mary’s Loch, (Tibbie Shiels Inn), and then across by the reservoirs to the Village of Broughton.

      Then we found that the Grey Mares Tale required a us to pay to park and other fees. It had been taken over by Scottish National Trust. Now we were not mean but on the principle we were members of the Sovereign people of Scotland we were not about to pay to visit what we already owned and the law of Scotland says we have legal right to roam.

      We thereafter made the run without a stop at the paid for Grey Mare’s Tale. Far as I’m concerned I’d contribute willingly to a fund to protect and preserve Scotland’s natural beauty but refuse point blank to fund what is mostly the preservation of the Scottish upper classes and their estates, castles and way of life.

    177. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Bookie from Hell does not need to change his avatar from 56 to 55. Michelle Thomson may have done the decent thing, and voluntarily relinquished the SNP whip while she sorts out the problem in her professional non-political life, but, she remains one of the 56 pro-Independence MPs in the HoC.

      Her action in voluntarily distancing herself from the SNP to hopefully lessen any damage to the party will, I sense sadly, not work – you can bet your house on the pro-union MSM continuing to label her as SNP.

      The last politician I can remember voluntarily relinquishing office or the party whip unbidden was Lord Carrington, who stood down as Foreign Secretary when the Argentinians invaded the Falklands.

      There was nothing he could have done to prevent it, but, it happened on his watch, he felt responsible, so, he resigned. There were honourable men in th Conservative Party back then – just as there are honourable women like Michelle in the SNP today.

    178. Gfaetheblock says:

      Surely you are not taking the ‘voluntary withdrawn the whip’ at face value? Politics talk for having been lent on to drop it. NS must be fuming for all this embarrassment bwing brought to her door by Hyslop and Thomson.

    179. sinky says:

      Pundits asking when did conference delegates queue for over an hour to hear the Party leader.
      When did they last attend an SNP conference?

    180. Lanarkist says:

      STV just announced that Mundell will be visiting business in Shetland tomorrow.

      Anyone know if Carmichael will be in his constituency?

      Maybe just an innocent Official business meetings but strange, and not in a serendipitous way, timing on the visit.

      Getting their stories straight, all their Ducks in a row or just begging him to resign before anymore info on the string pullers gets revealed?

    181. Lesley-Anne says:

      STV just announced that Mundell will be visiting business in Shetland tomorrow.

      Anyone know if Carmichael will be in his constituency?

      I just hope wee Fluffy has followed the Ministerial code for this visit Lanarkist. You know ADVANCE notice to the incumbent M.P., invitation to event etc. I’m sure he has cause we all made sure he knew about the Ministerial code after his wee *ahem* visit to Dumfries the other month … didn’t we? 😀

    182. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Gfaetheblock at11.02

      What a silly comment. Do you imagine the huge a growing young SNP support thinks that T In The Park is any less deserving than any of the other festivals that get public support?

    183. Quakeawake says:

      Just had a thought about the Scotsman.

      Is it still for sale?

      If so, how much?

      Could we crowdfund its purchase and gently turn it pro-indy?

      The Morningside set might gradually notice they’re being told the actual truth in their chip wrapper of choice, after years of distorted tosh, and so become new Yes voters…

      Well that’s sent me to bed happy.

    184. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill says: 29 September, 2015 at 11:20 pm:

      “Do you imagine the huge a growing young SNP support thinks that T In The Park is any less deserving than any of the other festivals that get public support.”

      Hey! Get real! I gave up on popular music when Rock started to overtake Trad Jazz, Swing, Big Bands and decent vocalists like Sinatra. Nut I’m disgusted at the Unionist campaign to discredit an MSP for properly doing her job.

      To lose T in the Park would cost the Scottish economy a hell of a lot more than £150,000. Not only that but there are bigger totally illegal council donations being made to venues proven to be run by West of Scotland underworld gang bosses.

      Not to mention the fees and expenses paid by Glasgow Council to their, so called, “Arm’s Length”, organisations and the illegal sale of public property to favoured Councillors or ex-councillors.

    185. Narrow Shoulders says:

      Why does The Telegraph demand that I download adobe flash to view the video when I already have it? Any one else get this?

    186. Sandy Henderson says:

      Is this the same Brian Wilson whom, I believe lost his deposit whilst standing for Labour in his own constituancy only to be elected for Coatbridge or thereabouts at a later election, subsequently being appointed to a ministerial post & then quietly removed to an insignifigent post somewhere abroad or at least out of the way because he was such an embarrassment.
      He was smug & very self-opinionated then. Practice through the years no doubt has honed this.
      Having met this person (I will not use the term, gentleman) I informed that I appreciate being spoken to, NOT DOWN TO.

    187. Sandy Henderson says:

      An aside. How to get a ‘SIR’ title.
      Send for something by mail & state your title as ‘Sir’. Consequently, expect trash mail addressed as such. Delivery pal, Billy, always touches his forelock on our meeting even tho’ I tell him that there is no need.
      ‘Sir’ title doesent really work in the pub,tho’.

    188. Gfaetheblock says:

      Dave, re my silly comment, I think that cronyism and the redacting of evidence looks bad to people of all ages. FYI you been to T, full of middle aged folk as well as the young.

    189. Fraz says:

      There really does need to be a complaint sent to the Press Complaints Commission about The Scotsman article – clearly bias and misleading in the extreme.

    190. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Gfaetheblock at 5.59

      What “redacting of evidence”?
      Indeed there are many middle-aged people at T. Rather stregthens my point.

    191. Chic McGregor says:

      @Dr Jim
      “Alex Salmond said the better educated people are on the issues the more they move to YES”

      I think that is right. My wife, who is a teacher, was depressed at the start of the indy campaign because a large majority of the teaching staff were anti independence, but by the end of the campaign it was the other way round.

      Those with good analytical skills will always be moved toward independence by the factual evidence.

      Of course that factual evidence is not readily available from the MSM nor, I suspect in some cases, from the educational institutions they went through.

    192. Chic McGregor says:

      Spare a thought for those decent journalists (aka human beings) who are sickened by the actions of the state machine.

      Do they quit? or do they stay and try to get some of the truth out there?

      Can’t be pleasant for them.

    193. gus1940 says:


      Re the notion of a crowdfunded takeover of Scotsman Pubs. the idea may have a distinct possibility of success.

      Given the financial hole in which JP resides it may make sense for them to get rid of such a loss making operation with no apparent chance of ever recovering with circulation continuing to plummet under their misguided editorial philosophy.

      Normal crowdfunding from the masses may need reinforcement from rich supporters of Independence such as Brian Soutar, Jim McColl and The Weirs but when one thinks of it just what little capital value does the current Scotsman Publications have?

      Since it was sold by Thomson Org. to the loathesome Barclays it has been systematically asset-stripped.

      The Barclays sold off the original Scotsman North Bridge Building and built the new Scotsman Building at Holyrood.

      When they in turn sold out to JP I understand that the Barclays retained ownership of the Holyrood building.

      JP subsequently disposed of the Printing Plant and equipment followed by quitting the Holyrood Building and establishing themselves as one of the occupants in an office block in Orchard Brae no doubt as tenants rather than owners of the premises.

      Precisely what Asset value remains in Scotsman Pubs. cannot amount to much more than some IT Equpment and Office Furniture plus what little remains of Brand Value of the Titles.

      Come on folks let’s do them a favour, take it off JP’s hands and turn it back into a newspaper to be proud of as it was before the sale by Thomson Org.

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

    ↑ Top