An all-time low
Posted on
November 08, 2019 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
Try to ignore the “regional”, and the fact that it’s framed as the Tories vs Labour. This is a new full-sample (1060) poll from YouGov today, and wow.
(The left-hand bar in each pair is 2017, the right-hand one is 2019.)
And you thought Kezia Dugdale’s nadir of 14% would never be beaten.
That’s quite some feat for Rudyard Lanyard or whatever his name is.
But in fairness, it’s not just him.
Tory leads in NW England and Yorkshire, and within a point of Labour in WALES? And that’s before factoring in Brexit Party tactical voting? Good heavens.
We hope there’s a backup for that plan of getting a second independence referendum from Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.
Yep, it was already clear that the majority of English voters had lost their marbles with Brexit. If they vote for BoJo after what we’ve already seen, I’ll be more than happy to have a hard border with England. And before any twat thinks I hate the English, my passport says I’m one of them.
Is there any chance that the apparent steady Brexit vote would split some Tory seats resulting in a hung Parliament in which SNP genuinely held the balance – or am I just hoping for the best (while feeling we’re f@cked?)
I am needing a new passport please please do not let it be one of those blue ones.
I think the English might regret their choice but that is their problem.
I am no longer fond of the English, but that is their problem too.
“Is there any chance that the apparent steady Brexit vote would split some Tory seats resulting in a hung Parliament in which SNP genuinely held the balance?”
Pretty much no chance:
link to wingsoverscotland.com
Yep, just read those poll results. Short of an unprecedented reversal in public opinion, Labour are going to take a hammering and England will be heading for a seriously big change in its political personality.
Scotland’s position remains the same – become Independent.
That wee Yougov graphic shows the SNP taking every single seat in Scotland – if true, wow indeed. But hey, no demand for indyref 2 and no mandate for it. Ever. So tell me, unionists, what is the democratic route to independence? What will you accept? Or do you want to just admit now that you are colonialists and/or fascists?
Who cares about Tory/Labour/the rest/the English?
We’re Scottish, if we want independence then just vote SNP!!
As I explained to that Elon Musk guy, it’s hardly rocket science.
I don’t see anything new from the SNP. That leaves the same worthless rhetoric and emotional blackmail to vote SNP just cos they are the SNP and Scotland has no other option.
I do. I’ll probably choose not to vote for empty SNP rhetoric.
I’ll save my vote for indyref2 when Boris crumbles to Nicola’s demands, if Nicola’s to be believed.
Cellar Shark @ 3.46
Never seen much of a problem with a Border either… Apparently lots of countries have them. 🙂
I’d always thought it would be an important symbol of our independence being reinstated and would be good for the border towns themselves.
How open or closed it is will depend on the politics between the two states at any given time!
But a weapon to prevent independence… Naw.
Where did that even come from?
Jings!
Jeremy Corbynite and Ricky Leopard going out with scarcely a whimper.
In order of voting volatility (lowest to highest) SNP, Con, LibDem, Labour. Only 47% of (what remains of) the Labour vote, voted for them in 2017.
Tantalisingly, 16% of current LibDem voters voted SNP in 2017 (against 0% Labour and 5% Con). Swinson’s über-Unionists position does not chime with a valuable portion of her vote.
Yougov has never been the most reliable of polling organisations. Though Electoral Calculus is possibly a more reliable guide. The polls looked equally dire in 2017 but got turned around.
A lot can happen over five weeks.
SNP with a 30 point lead over Labour in Scotland. The days of the feeble 50 have well and truly gone.
However unless the SNP get some 50 plus seats I think Boris will just ignore them. Mind you he might do that anyway.
A situation more likely to occur if you vote for them this time.
“That wee Yougov graphic shows the SNP taking every single seat in Scotland – if true, wow indeed.”
That’s not what it’s doing. It’s just showing which party leads in each area. It’s not saying the Tories will win every seat in NW England, say.
The stars above Scotland continue to align, even as the Brexit ‘avalanche’ continues to rip through England causing havoc, and promising a level of destruction in the political and social fabric unimaginable at any time in living memory.
In many ways, Scotland & Northern Ireland are spectators watching the Brexit train wreck in England, and with growing reluctance, in Wales.
For Scotland, Divorce is a no-brainer, though the force of BritNat propaganda over generations is still strong, but weakening in the face of Brexit.
Colin Alexander @3.57pm
Unless I’ve mistaken what you’ve said (and if I have, apologies), you must realise that if you don’t vote for a Scottish independence-supporting party able to put bums on seats in Westminster — basically SNP in 2019 — then you may not get the chance to vote in any other indyref? Scotland has to return as many SNP MPs as possible to prove a point. Johnson is saying at the moment that he’ll never allow another independence referendum… but we also know what a fibber he is, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him to turn on a sixpence.
I fully take the point you are making here. My own guess when the election was called was that either we would lapse into another hung parliament, or more likely that BoJo would win a “workable” majority at least. Now if that occurred to me, do you not think it likely it will have occurred to SNP High Command? Moreover, would it have been wise to trust Johnson by granting him his election when he wanted it and trusting him to deliver when the man is a known liar and scoundrel? I suspect – and yes I am being wise after the event – that we were always likely to end up here. The issue is what comes next? I don’t know, but I will forecast that it will be messy, much messier than anything we have known to date.
macalbasite says most of link to macalbasite.wordpress.com
Oh well, yet another YouGov poll that didn’t stop into my inbox. I’ve had numerous ones this year concerning “how well do you think Brexit is going” but nothing else political. God forbid I get asked about my political views on Scotland.
Looks like a combination of Labour ineptness and media bias will see Labour lose this GE. That can only be good for Scottish independence.
Meanwhile, elsewhere :-
A UK ELECTION? THINK AGAIN. THINK FOREIGN INTERFERENCE. THINK RUSSIAN MONEY. THINK INDIAN MONEY. THINK AMERICAN MONEY.
link to opendemocracy.net
“Concerns over ‘foreign interference’ as India-linked Hindu nationalist group targets Labour candidates
Campaigners linked to Indian prime minister Modi’s BJP say they’re targeting 48 Labour-Tory marginals, also prompting fears of heightened ethnic tensions.
Activists directly linked to India’s ruling Hindu nationalist party, the BJP, have vowed to campaign on behalf of the Conservative Party – raising concerns about attempted foreign interference in next month’s UK general election.
The campaign has alarmed some Labour Party MPs standing for reelection, who say the prospect of foreign interference by “religious hardliners” could stir up inter-community tensions.
In July, Canadian officials warned of potential election interference from the BJP government in Canada’s upcoming elections. In a report, the civil servants accused India and China of trying to promote sympathetic candidates and spread misinformation.
On Tuesday the president of Overseas Friends of BJP UK (OFBJPUK), told The Times of India his campaign group was planning to campaign in 48 marginal seats to help Conservative candidates.
“We have a team in each constituency which is going round with the Tory candidate leafleting, speaking to people and persuading them to vote Tory,” said Kuldeep Singh Shekhawat. “The teams are organised by the BJP and Friends of India Society International.”
UK DEMOCRACY IS A FULLY DRESSED CORPSE.
The UK electorate, for the most part, is being taken for a ride.
Liam @ 16:10,
Serinde @ 16:16,
Please don’t take Lord Hee Haw’s pronouncements seriously. His persistent one-man effort to sow disengagement is not a consequence of a mere personal misunderstanding. He knows full well what he’s about.
And so do we.
SNP-landslide with Tory majority forcing through Brexit is the ideal conditions for winning independence.
For sure – getting a S30 wont be easy. However a peoples-vote resulting in REMAIN would be far more damaging for independence.
UK is destroying itself.
Interesting.
I am pleased the SNP are regaining ground lost in 17. However how is this going to get us a referendum? So a section 30 is to be requested by Christmas. Then PM says nothing at all or says not now. So the SG initiate there legal case to get Scottish referendum powers. This then goes to the Supreme Court. By now it is the summer sometime. As it seems to take six months to agree a referendum question how do we get a referendum in the August?
Just saying!!
Look, folks, Colin Alexander is no fool. In fact, in my opinion, he is an educated disruptive plant. Prove me wrong.
Colin, no need to reply. Won’t believe you anyway.
General election 2019: Nicola Sturgeon lists conditions for SNP to back Labour
I see on the BBC comments on the above is taking a real kicking from the Yoons they must be really crapping themselves,when they see the new poll will make it worse for them.
Will the green vite split the numbers on Scotland and let some Tories back in. Eg Stephen Kerr in my constituency of Stirling? Or perhaps Pete Wishart in Perth. Why can’t they see this?
Liz g @ 16:01,
You can bet that “The Border” will be a scare raised by the BritNat Alliance come IR2. Something of a two-edged sword now though, after all those heavy-duty assurances from the Leavers that a border in Ireland is no biggie.
Besides, we might be very glad of its protection eg. in keeping out all the junk food that England will soon be importing from the USA and elsewhere.
(Plus we’ll have a passport with built-in “access all areas” that the dark blue relic signally lacks.)
Ha ha serves them all right, bunch of disingenuous lying toerags
The answer to the gloom and doom in this article really is this, historical reality:
link to en.wikipedia.org
and check out the last few weeks of polling back in 2017. An 18% Tory lead in the poll in the last table, fell to 2.4% in the actual election.
link to bbc.co.uk
So yeah, it might be Bozo as PM, but the most likely result for this GE is a HUNG PARLIAMENT.
That SNP figure of £1600 worse of for every person in Scotland is a figure up with which our big Auntie darn Sarf will not put.
They have had their BBC experts trash it 3 times since lunchtime and basically called Stephen Gethins there in an interview he was a liar.
He stopped the interviewer just as she was getting started and telt her. Good for him.
I wish the BBC had been so diligent when the Boris and the Farage balloon bus was promising Brexiteers £zillions. 🙁
[SPOILER ALERT] By Christmas, Scotland is going to be at the mercy of an aggressively right-wing English nationalist regime who will be free to act against Scotland without restraint. Petulantly sniping at the SNP is not going to cut it any more.
The big two shipping votes across the SNP/Lib/Green/Brexit parties. Not entirely unexpected. The difficulty is discerning, which of the votes gained for the SNP (and ‘floaters’ to the others) are inclined to Indpendence as a concept; or whether it is purely for party political/ governance issues and/or protest voting.
In saying that, the votes required to be gained for Indy, has always been from the variable 6-13% of the ‘floating vote’.
In 2014, YES gained only around 1.5% of that tranche and the NO win came from the remainder (Not 50% NO + the remainder – but lower – around the 47% mark+ the remaining ‘floaters’) YES has required around 4-6% more of the floating vote to see parity. Any more and it would see a reversal of the 2014 result
Can I infer anything regarding that kind of movement from these tables? Hardly, but its obvious some tide is turning. Let us hope “a rising tide lifts all ships” and it is indeed indicative, of enough floating votes washing up on Independent shores.
And with that tortured metaphor, I’ll away for ma tea.
A (too?) simplistic analysis of the Scottish part of this poll might suggest that the net consequence is that the Tories are losing a chunk of support to the Brexit Party and Labour (fatally) to the FibDems, whereas the SNP continue to peel away people, albeit frustratingly slowly, from the discredited BritNats.
OK, we’ll see how that pans out in practice as voters come to terms with the straitjacket of FPTP voting, but it’s already well overdue for NorthBritLab to change its policies as well as its leadership. (Some hope! Who next? All dead wo/men walking.)
As for those poor faint-hearts who are apparently tempted to transfer their faith to the FibDems, I just hope they realise to which particular creek they are heading before they end up, horrified and regretful, in the exact same place without a paddle as back in 2010. There just isn’t a current problem for which the Liberal Democrats are the solution.
@callmedave
With the LibDems at 13% Stephen Gethins is one whose seat might go LibDem unless the SNP get the tactical Green vote.
To be honest I’m hoping Boris gets back in power as I see this as being the only chance we have of Independence, I also think there’s more chance of Labour doing a deal with Lib-Dems than there is with SNP though to be fair there’s always the chance the Lib-Dems could turn on a sixpence and end up in coalition with Tories, we know how desperate they are for power and Swinson is more Tory than the Tories at heart, Imagine Labour doing a deal with SNP (hypothetical) and agreeing to a section 30 but only after 1,2 or 3 yrs and lets assume SNP agree, Corbyn not only puts his deal back to the people and they vote remain as well as transforming the country from the shithole it is now, people see things getting better, Brexit is in the past and SNP ask for a section 30, If I was Labour I would agree, EU citizens are happy, new yes voters who were only going to vote yes because of threat to EU membership are happy, how many will be interested in going through another referendum? 2014 all over again. I fear we may have lost our chance unless going back to the beginning of this Johnson wins, Nicola demands section30 which will be refused then it has to be challenged in court which I still believe should have been done 2 yrs ago, a week is a long time in politics 6 weeks could turn everything on it’s head and I’m not going to even try to imagine the harm that this gender crap will have caused by then. then again Labour might win by a majority, I know! but let’s be honest here these are very strange times we live in, I’m not even convinced SNP will do as well as predicted. think I’ll book a 5 wk holiday.
I think the SNP would happily take those numbers but it does make for alarming reading UK wide. Some remain tactical voting may peg the Tories back to something less dramatic but I doubt it will save Corbyn’s bacon.
Labour have 33 days to play a blinder against a shockingly inept Tory campaign (so far) to turn things around. Johnson and crew are so awful I wouldn’t rule them out being caught eating kittens just for laughs and thereby throwing the election but it is not something Labour should count on.
interesting, as usual
I notice from elsewhere the tories are screeching about the remainers electoral pact – they want it stopped, which means they are worried
tactical voting is often talked about, but never comes to very much –
could this be the election that widescale tactical voting makes an impact?
a question for the REV
I had hoped that the brexit party might fuckup the tories, but it looks like it wont
Just noticed that this is from the end of Oct so can see why Johnson was so keen and Labour were dragging their heels. Will be interesting to see what the respective campaigns do for the numbers or whether people’s intentions are pretty much set in stone now.
@dadsarmy
Gethins needs all the help he can get right enough as by December he’ll be skating on thin ice. Hoping for the best.
Better no Green candidate would make sense but will it happen. 🙁
Although these figures look good for the SNP and Scotland we MUST NOT become complacent look what happened in 2017 , the SNP reps at every opportunity MUST highlight the disengenuous collaborations between the UNIONIST parties in Scotland , they MUST HIGHLIGHT the absolute corruption between these UNIONIST parties to SABOTAGE a FAIR and FREE election of candidates and parties WE the electorate want to govern OUR country Scotland
The corrupt collusion of these unionist parties MUST be highlighted as the THEFT and misuse of OUR DEMOCRATIC vote , if it is brought to the attention of the wider electorate correctly it should inflame and outrage Scottish voters that they are being USED as fodder for the unionist parties whose ONLY interest is in securing the union not making Scottish voters lives better
Independence is our goal but first ( Colin ) we have to WIN this GE in Scotland , VOTE SNP AND WIN INDEPENDENCE
dadsarmy @ 17:14,
Given the margin, it’s all too likely that Gethins will lose, barring a miracle.
But a miracle isn’t impossible there. We have to keep in mind that voter transfers of allegiance are already factored-in to the 2017 result, so the potential for further shifts may be rather limited. Furthermore, don’t forget the significant drop in turnout for the SNP in 2017. Given the urgency of the current political situation, that may well be reversed this time. Heads have meanwhile possibly been extracted from the sand. The polls would seem to support that notion.
It’s clear that the turnout stakes couldn’t be higher. Hence the noticeable voter disengagement operation that’s clearly underway at the moment, both on here and elsewhere.
If anyone has any doubt about the importance of this election, just look at who is trying to suppress the vote and why. Then go and do the exact opposite.
I think what we have here is a failure of communication. The SNP and Labour have feet on the ground. The Tories have the media. So a turnaround in Labour’s fortunes may well happen again as doorstep canvassing gets underway in earnest.
All these screaming headlines in the Daily Mail will just be water off a duck’s back in England as they have been in Scotland for some time. Dominic Cumming’s ability to flood Facebook with targeted ads will lose effect as people know about it now.
So all we have left is the Integrity Initiative, Russian hackers, Dark Money and postal vote fraud to deal with. Oh, and Donald Trump.
That was a rather hostile interview N. Sturgeon had to endure from Lara “what’s her name”? ( one of the B.B.C. political lassies).
Helen Yates @ 17:28,
Wuaagh, give us a para or two there, Helen, please!
I don’t think Labour will do a deal with anyone, they will look for support issue-by-issue as a minority government instead. Though unless opinion shifts dramatically during the next few weeks, it doesn’t seem too likely. But who knows?
All we need do is support the SNP to the hilt and worry about what comes after when it happens. Keeps life simple. =grin=
As to an S.30, I thought it rather rich of BoZo to be claiming that he will outright refuse to “allow” one. On the grounds, according to today’s paper, that there was a “once in a generation” pledge =cough= given in 2014, and he sees “no reason to go back on that pledge”.
This from the effortless poser whose corpse, post-Halloween, is manifestly not decorating any ditch anywhere in the country.
[…] Wings Over Scotland An all-time low Try to ignore the “regional”, and the fact that it’s framed as the Tories vs […]
@Alabaman
Laura Kuenssberg I think you may mean.
Twitter champion of big auntie darn Sarf and political presenter and has her own podcast late on the ipod player thingy.
This needs to happen anyway.
If Corbyn won, Indy2 would just fizzle away.
I was worried the opposite would happen.
Just looked her up.
Laura Juliet Kuenssberg is a British journalist.
In July 2015 she succeeded Nick Robinson as political editor of BBC News, the first woman to hold the position
LK is noted for her somewhat partisan position. Generally considered pro Tory in Englandshire or at least anti Corbyn.
The SNP are effectively betting the farm on a series of events which are by no means the most likely outcome:
– a hung parliament (or very small majority)
– Labour prepared to do a referendum deal rather than try and govern as a minority
– winning any subsequent court case if we’re refused a S30 Order.
Of course it’s not impossible that the polls will change in the run up to the election, but I can’t be the only one who can’t understand why the narrative is mainly whatiffery about the unlikely event of hung parliament, or indeed why more Yessers aren’t pushing for an answer to the question of why the SNP still has its face set against having a Plan B in place.
Why is it so difficult for them to give a straight answer to the question of what happens when Westminster says “now is not the time!” again?
The only poll that matters is the one on the 12th December. So get out and support your local SNP candidate, vote SNP and hopefully we will achieve our Independence in 2020.
It’s pretty obvious, really, until such time as ‘pretend scottishy’ British Labour truly become a Scottish party, and startr actually standing up for Scotland and its democratic rights to independence, they will go on failing in Scotland.
Of course those in the Labour party management in London, England, will know this, but their ‘socialism’ and democratic ideals only extends to countries other than Scotland. Corbyn regularly cheers countries which have become independent, sometimes via full -fledged civil war, yet Scotland, according to Labour must NEVER have independence. It must stay under johnson’s fat, eton-bred, Tory jackboot.
Labour are a joke in Scotland, and the stooges who currently work for them up here, are just clowns or, in the case of their MSP’s, just nobodies who found a great, easy, do-nothing, extremely well paid job – the likes of which most ordinary folk can only dream.
The only sane thing for ANY Scottish voters is to vote SNP. I think even union-jack boy, Iain Murray, might even vote SNP this time.
Old Pete at 609pm,
Yip, totally agree. No matter what, the only sane vote in Scotland, is SNP.
Zen Broon at 510pm,
Yip, I have had plenty to whinga about regarding the SNP, but right now I am 100% behind the SNP. If Johnson wins, then Scotland will be truly f***ed, so we need a strong SNP vote.
It is only the SNP that can do anything about it. The referendum 2020 is coming (and I do now believe the FM on that matter).
We, regardless of some issues, such as the gender rubbish, we need to get behind the SNP.
Poor old Labour!
The Hindu’s are out to get them.
The Jews are snipping away at them.
The Christians don’t like them much.
The Moslems haven’t forgiven them for Iraq and Afghanistan
The Yanks think they are Commies
The Europeans are not too keen on them either.
They are slipping in Scotland.
Wobbling in Wales
And the Brexit Party has hoovered up most of their Xenophobic voters in England – It’s gonna be a Cold Cold Christmas for Corbyn.
Right put that knife and fork down for a second you can finish your tea in a minute. I just want to say you must vote SNP in this GE, we must stand together and show Westminster Scots mean business by voting for the independence party.
Oh and if you are thinking of voting Green at this GE in Scotland don’t you’ll only damage our cause and let Westminster think Scots don’t want independence.
Once we’re independent you can vote for whatever party you feel like. Right finish your tea now.
Great Britain is not a democracy and never has been, it cannot be a democracy with a first passed the post voting system.
Bring on Boris
the scots deserve him
We’re still a full month away from the GE and the direction of travel, so far, has been for smaller parties losing support to the larger ones. People ARE realising that the LibDems won’t get in and their vote could be wasted. So it’ll be back to the old tactical voting to ‘keep the other lot out’ I don’t know if this’ll extend to the Brexit Party however, their supporters seem a bit more swivel-eyed loon than the rest, they may be content to waste their votes to make a point.
Overall I think it depends on where the smaller parties steal their votes from. It won’t be who wins, it’s be who loses the least. Could well be another hung parliament, they seem popular now…
Don’t worry folks Jo Swinson is going to *Givv thu paple of Scotlind a chonce to chewze*
I know I know but c’mon it’s weird
Patrick Harvie says on the news this election is about Green issues, eh? what? where? how?
Andy Ellis
If the Tories get a working majority and the SNP 40+% of the vote.
I promise to do everything I can to set up and maintain human borders across the A1, A68, and M74. In the event of an S30 being refused.
@ Harry mcaye at 4.23
I regularly get asked my voting intention by YouGov, and have done ever since I signed up in about 2013.
That you don’t may be a consequence of your age, sex, income, etc – although they use weighting (partly because not everyone they send a survey to answers it), I think they make some effort to balance the panel beforehand.
Also, if you haven’t asked for “as many surveys as possible”, and/or don’t always complete them, that may discourage them. I can put up with being asked about washing powder brands I’ve never heard of from time to time, in order to be included in the ones I’m really interested in.
(I could of course be completely wrong about this!)
No backup plan, not even a credible main plan never has been and never will be, until Tom and Jerry leave the stage
If anyone believes they should vote SNP, go for it: I encourage everyone to vote according to what they think is right.
Indyref2 mandate is “triple-locked” and agreed to by the Scottish Parliament. The Scottish Parliament that represents the democratic will of Scotland.
Either the British Empire will respect Scotland’s will or it won’t.
====================================================
The SNP have already PROMISED to deliver indyref2.
They already have the mandate.
====================================================
The current situation for me is like this:
Friend SNP borrows a vote from me and promises to repay me. Then SNP borrows another vote with promises to repay. Then SNP borrows another vote with promises to repay me.
Then friend SNP wants to borrow another vote on the basis that BJ will soon give SNP what I want. So friend SNP insists that this time they will deliver on the promise to repay me, if I lend another vote.
SNP insists, that BJ will eventually pay SNP’s promises, if SNP keeps demanding it.
But I know BJ; he’s a barsteward. I know that BJ despises SNP – and me- and all BJ’s friends also despise me and SNP. I also know BJ has said they will never give SNP what SNP is promising me.
In those circumstances would you still lend SNP another vote?
Or would you say?:
“Three times you already promised me what I want, if I lend you my vote. Pay me what you already promised me. Until you do, I won’t lend you any more votes”.
We stand together or we will fall together. The battle lines are be ing drawn as we write. England will have its Brexit zt our expense yet again. This time we fight to win,because we must.
Vote SNP.
Interesting to see a swing from the SNP to the LDs even if also a swing from the Tories and Labour to the SNP. Clearly some pro EU Unionist Scots now going LD
Let’s just vote SNP and see where it takes us.
If we take all of the seats and a majority of the vote then
Vote SNP on December 12th.
A poll is not a prediction. So, don’t get too excited.
There is over month of gaffs, pratfalls and goofs, never mind the dissembling, equivocating and down right lying, before we get to put a X in a box and much can happen including, possibly, the demise of the Scottish branch office of the labour party, or at least its cessation to being relevant. However, the poll does make Tom Watson’s decision to jump look like a wise move and may explain why the lying oaf made a flying visit to Moray – hopefully the part time referee is going to be able to less part time soon.
Very simple question people in Scotland can ask ourselves about voting on 12th December.
What harm will it do voting SNP and what good will it do voting for anyone else – or abstaining to keep our resident troll happy?
And – if not having enough SNP MPs turns out to be the reason for not getting #indyref2020 – Indy Ref 2 in 2020, will YOU ever forgive yourself for having pissed Independence down the tubes – probably for the next 312 years, while Colin laughs laughs laughs, and HIFUD continues to lie his arse off?
@ Brit Agent Colin Alexander:
That one was particularly crap, production line a little fluid on a Friday afternoon?
Stop trying to influence people not to vote, against their better interests.
@ Colin Alexander 7.29pm
As I said before Colin, it must be near the end of your shift. Time to go back under your stone. Remember to clear up when you go and take your unionist crap with you.
Hi Folks,
Yes early days. More to come I fear. However according to the Rev’s link on Twitter on the full Regional poll results, in London Labour are also falling big. Hmmm.
Vote SNP. Only.
William Purves says:
Totally agree. It’s an awful system. A loser always wins.
The last time a party got more than half the votes was 1930!
Every government which has had a huge impact and made significant changes … post was Labour, Thatcher, Blair, Cameron … every one of them was rejected by the majority of voters.
Apart from the obvious lack of democratic representation, FPTP needs large broad church parties to function. This has given rise to Labour and Tory parties which have too many internal factions. Often these fight and cause problems with the party having coherent policies. Chaos.
A proper PR system would mean more smaller focused parties are forced to find consensus on every issue. Makes politicians work hard, cooperate, and compromise. Better democracy and representation.
Heard Harvie on radio news (it was Heart, Smooth or suchlike, not BBC) giving it ‘other parties are bothered about Brexit, independence or whatever, but we have to save the world’.
That’s a paraphrase but not a wildly inaccurate one.
The guy is playing a game of call my bluff with the SNP in the hope of being summoned for a special audience with NS. Either that or he’s just a vainglorious blockhead.
Don’t get too excited as BBC doing their best to damage the SNP.
On the day that the SNP launched their election campaign the BBC invited all the unionist parties to comment on the SNP plans.
Does anyone remember when the SNP was ever invited to comment on the campaign launch by the London based parties?
Double standards by the BBC as Britannia waives the rules of impartiality as usual.
@ Ian Brotherhood at 8.45
I’ll give you one guess which I think is the correct answer 🙂 .
I’ve considered the cost of this lending your vote thing and decided that because voting’s free and the folk you’re voting for can give you a whole country in return for the lend of your vote, no brainer really
galamcennalath says:at 8 November, 2019 at 8:41 pm-
It’s time the Greens understood that proportional representation will never happen under Westminster rule and that the Scottish government has a far better record on climate change, environmental issues or on nuclear weapons than any UK party so why are they actively trying to get Tory and Labour MPs to replace SNP representatives.
Tony Little, I think you meant “fuct” 😉
@crazycat –
Can I phone a friend?
😉
If you write to an SNP MP about a Holyrood issue you will be told: Holyrood is nothing to do with us. Holyrood for MSPs, Westminster issues for MPs.
You elect MPs for Westminster. You elect MSPs for Holyrood.
So, electing SNP MPs does nothing for a Holyrood mandate. The Holyrood mandate was obtained via the Scottish Parliament election in 2016. Scottish democracy.
So, whether the SNP have 59 or zero Westminster MPs means nothing to any Holyrood mandate.
Either the British Empire will respect the vote of the people of Scotland in the 2016 Scottish Parliament election and subsequent Scottish Parliament vote for Indyref2 or it will not.
I believe it won’t: Tories, LibDems and Labour have all said they won’t respect the will of the people of Scotland.
By saying that, they already disrespected the will of the people of Scotland, as the British Empire has done for over 300 years.
Ah, but it’s all different this time; they are crumbling, says Nicola. There is no proof of that.
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What harm does voting SNP do?
It shows the people of Scotland still put their faith in UK Govts and the Union Parliament to deliver for Scotland. It will confirm to the Empire, the SNP pose no threat to the Union, as the SNP continue to put their trust in the Union to “do the right thing” and the people of Scotland are daft enough to believe them.
Please Colin, rethink your decision. As others have pointed out, and you know, if the SNP don’t do well, that’s the referendum up, doon, the Swanee.
I do hope the Conservatives win and bring this thing to a head. Not Corbin’s wishy-washy mibe aye, mibe naw fannying about.
I hope Mr. Johnson says, up yours Jocks, and it finally puts some fire, well maybe indignation, in the population’s breest.
A point I had a thought on, in light of the clause in the 1998 Northern Ireland Agreement, where it states that the N. Irish population, if they wish, and by a majority, can have a vote on the border and every seven years thereafter, perhaps Ms. Sturgeon is pushing ours out as far as possible to get near that timescale, then she can point to that precedent as support.
@ian brotherhood
8:45
Re Harvie; it’s the second option.
This is good news for Scottish independence , a predicted increase in seats for SNP , a good sign.
With regards a border with England there is no need to worry , a border will be easy we have had one before and it’s really very likely that once Scotland is independent and successfully independent which will undoubtedly be very apparent and visible within just a few years , England will be thinking about rejoining the EU .
By then reunification of Ireland will also be planned.
Wales ? Let’s see.
Gibraltar ? Let’s see.
Colin Alexander , your post at 9.08pm.
That’s why you could never be a politician Colin , you just accept what the british papers say, stop reading them and think for yourself and then you will join the rest of us .
Coco will never “join the rest of us” – he is here for a purpose, always has been, and most of us see it.
Ignore him, his paid job is to distract.
Ooof! Blair MacDougall regrets. Aye… 🙁 Rev’s twitter.
“Who could have foreseen that positioning ourselves on the wrong side of both brexit and independence would result in this?”
Nearly everyone in Scotland and the dogs in the street telt yie!
Yeah, yeah. Anyway, vote SNP if you want Independence. Nothing else matters.
Don’t feed the ‘concern’ troll folks.
‘I want Independence but would never vote SNP in a GE’ – oh, is that right ?
We see you.
Simples vote
GE – SNP
HR – SNP 1 WINGS 2
Never forget wings
Jings! Jo Swinson & Kezia Break Dugdale on radio 4.
Kezia says the Scottish people are voting based on the ‘constitutional’ issues not on party issues.
The high school Geography Teacher who should’ve retired ten years ago, a.k.a Jeremy Corbyn, will be getting his jotters come the new year I’d wager. Lenny the mild mannered janitor at Holyrood will probably follow in his footsteps. Sucks to be Labour!
The Polls are the next step up from a guess, however the change in demographics shows that there is a Massive sea change coming in voting decisions !
The YOUNG VOTE will be the crucial Vote, as it should be, as it’s their future NOT that of the Grey Gang, myself included !
Scotland must protect it’s Future Generations from TORY ABUSE, the only way to do that is to VOTE SNP and VOTE For INDEPENDENCE.
END the UNION and LET SCOTLAND PROSPER !
I assume the SNP’s desire to form a ‘progressive alliance’ to put the Conservatives out of government with those UK parties willing to support a second independence referendum, is an example of gallus chutzpah.
Jock McDonnell says:
8 November, 2019 at 10:00 pm
Don’t feed the ‘concern’ troll folks.
Aye, yer richt dinnae feed yon Trolls, cause thae end up bein’ ower fed feckin’ OGRES !
Kezia:
Sturgeon’s cunning plan is to sook in with Labour darn Sarf if there is a chance of him becoming MP and demanding no Trident and other social policies that Labour are comfortable with means that Labour can stop fighting the SNP in Scotland for GE seats suggests Dugdale. Aye right!
She says SNP will get 45 to 50 seats. Lose a couple to Lib/Dems and NE Scotland will return 5/6 Tories + 2 Borders.
Never proffered what ‘Scottish’ Labour will get. 🙂
@Jim McIntosh (9.10) –
Thank you friend!
😉
This is good
link to talkingupscotlandtwo.com
So we are to endure a head to head TV debate with the second and fourth placed parties in Scotland, maybe they have an aversion to odd numbers. I wonder what other country in the world has the leading party excluded from debates, that’s English colonialism for you.
@HYUFD 7:40pm
Really? C’mon man, no-one can extrapolate anything that detailed from the data. But I’m listening – elucidate the process which led you to that conclusion?
Hell, I thought I was being rash narrowing possibilities to a restrictive : party political/ governance issues and/or protest voting and assigning it to predominantly the ‘floating vote’ – but you’re straight in there wi a wanion : “Clearly some pro EU Unionist Scots now going LD”
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I can have no idea if you’re wrong, neither can the data verify it – I’m just interested in the logical leap – maybe I can use it.
The term ‘BBC bias’ has been bandied about a lot recently, and many are questioning the political neutrality of commentators such as Laura Kuenssburg.
An updated blog
link to caltonjock.com
The love of Scotland’s money is the root of all English Unionist evil.
In the UK, the Queen is the Queen.
But Lying is King.
With Brexit, we have still to go over the cliff.
But ethically, morally, and in terms of personal integrity and self-respect, the UK is already over the cliff-edge and falling to the rocks beneath. Only death awaits.
BBC Bias squad out in full force with good old Laura telling
Viewers was the First Minister is saying?
Why not like all the Unionist Party leaders isn’t Nicola tell us directly
What she had to say?
Camera man trying pick out unflattering angles and then old Laura followed
Smiffy have a at picking holes in SNP and of course the London parties can pick holes.
You know the format that applies to no other party in the UK.
How nice tonight to be able to watch an early English FA Cup tie on BBC TV
tonight.
Some day they might squeeze in just one match with the Scottish International team.
Maybe not in my lifetime though as all Scotland does is donate £millions in license fees
and use up so much budget keeping them in their place with propaganda.
Vainglorious blockhead. 🙂
@Capella (11.09) –
My work has not been in vain…
😉
Option 2.
‘Should Patrick Harvie stand down candidates in those constituencies considered ‘marginals’ for SNP incumbents?’
Yes 91%
No 9%
727 votes cast since 9.15
Closes Sunday night.
link to twitter.com
Oh right, I think I had seen thisa rticle before I made my earlier commenta bout it being likely a hung parliament. Hope it is!
link to thenational.scot
I’ll be blunt – what she says is good enough for me [1].
[1] On this occasion anyway 🙂
@ Colin Alexander
I notice that you are a disruptive troll. Sowing disruption or something. So is Rev. Stuart Campbell when he speaks unpopular truths. So am I. The biggest obstacle to getting over the line in public support for Scottish independence is the army of retards who cant handle a different opinion.
@ Colin Alexander
I see that you are upsetting the indy flock with you opinions. Stop it. Scotlands future is a society of sensitivity where hurty opinions like yours are not allowed. Thats how the indy movement will gain public support dontchaknow. Yup, as soon as Westminster just agrees to our demands that is.
@ manandboy
I have to admit when I see your comments I have the urge to mock and troll you. Out of respect for WOS Scotland however ill suggest you take it easy and stop believing every fear story you read. How else will you survive should Scotland ever get a 2nd indy ref?
IIRC the fall in SNP votes in 2017 was due to SNP voters staying at home, c 500,000 of them, rather than switching to other parties. So however many votes switch between unionist parties it’s GOTV which will win it for the SNP. Hence thae desperate efforts to depress the SNP vote.
I think it’s a win-win election for the YES movement. Whoever becomes PM, Scottish voters will be heading for the lifeboats.
Joe says:
8 November, 2019 at 11:54
Relax, Joe, we just see things differently. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Unless of course you think I’m not entitled to mine while you are entitled to yours. But I prefer not to believe that.
For the first time in our lives my son and I have applied for postal votes. We have no idea what the weather will be like on the day so playing safe. I have actually seen reports that on the same day as the election last year there were blizzards in parts of Scotland.
Ian Mohr @10:38
To get HYFUDs data you have to go to
link to yougov.co.uk
Then scroll to the bottom and where it says
See full results……Scotland….
Click on Scotland and that will download the Scotland pages as a PDF. This shows some SNP Votes transferring to the LD, Con and Lab as well as ones going the other way.
Should Patrick Harvie stand down candidates in those constituencies considered ‘marginals’ for SNP incumbents?’
Yes he should. And I speak as someone who left the SNP to join the greens.
Best chance of a GND for Scotland is a strong Green Party – at holyrood. First and foremost we need a holyrood!
I’ll be donating in the local crowd funded to elect the SNP on the 12th.
ian Brotherhood at 0845pm,
I’m afraid, regarding Harvie, it is the latter. In reality that is a shame, because their are many in the indy movement who are, or who might be, open to his views regarding the environment – including myself. BUT, wilfully, deliberately standing candidates who you KNOW have no chance of success, in SNP marginals, is just unforgivable.
Mr. Harvie and his green party will come to regret doing such wilful, deliberate damage to the indy cause.
He, and his wee coterie of enviro-chums, absolutely 100% KNOW that by standing in Pete Wishart’s constituency, for example, that is nothing more than a wrecking tactic. Nobody in the indy movement should ever forgive such wanton folly by Harvie.
Some folk may or may not agree with everything the SNP do or have done, but that is politics. I have at times aired my own issues here. No party will represent ALL your views exactly. Right now, here in Scotland, their is only one vote that will have meaning in the general election, and that is to vote SNP. We all, in the indy movement, ignore that at our peril – and that includes Mr. Harvie.
Oh, and by the way, I have made many comments here, criticising the FM’s strategy regarding the indyref, regarding section 30. I have changed my views. I now totally get it, and what is being done – following a helpful chat with somebody.
It is sound. But I cannot spell it out here, as it may help opponents to indy. It does make sense – but you need to dig deep, and really think it all through to conclusion. Johnson’s comments in Moray the other day, actually help the indy cause. The man truly is a clown.
My hunch is that most Brexit Party voters who are inclined towards the Tories will vote Tory, and thus hand Boris Johnston a healthy overall majority in the Commons.
‘vainglorious blockhead ‘ is a literary improvement on ‘wee shit’ – overheard at the horses arse last Saturday.
Dorothy Devine
It may be a literary improvement, but nothing like the true “wee shit” that Harvie has become.
Holyrood has simply expanded his cranium (in HIS opinion, of course!).
We can rule out the possibility of a hung Parliament leading to inyref2 through an snp-Labour agreement. Too many really unlikely thing would need happen at the same time for that outcome to come about.
And we must remember that in a hung Parliament the incumbent government gets the first chance to form a working majority, even if it isn’t the biggest party. 2010 was very unusual in that respect.
We can predict then that the SNP will have a few more seats and be worse off in terms of influence because it’ll face a Boris government that will most likely have a small majority.
This outcome doesn’t suit the people of Scotland but it would suit the SNP. The Brexit pain is in the post for Scotland and with Boris at the helm we can predict the SNP’s prospects in the next Holyrood elections are good.
For the independence movement, we can predict more of the same for the next few years. The only party capable of delivering independence has prioritised Brexit and winning elections.
If the SNP didn’t exist, we have to wonder where all this pro-independence energy would go and whether it would find more success elsewhere.
Just reading that Moody’s credit reference agency has just downgraded the UK ‘s credit standing to Aa2.
At least under Buster Brown when the banks collapsed the UK economy still had an AAA rating.
Now languishing below prime economic AAA rated countries like the Netherlands, Norway, Germany, Finland or the more faraway jurisdictions like Singapore, the Tories strong and stable is being exposed as the relentless slide down the league tables.
At least however we can dine on our nuclear weapons and aircraft carriers to show our capability to deliver lethal force around the world.
Rule Britannia – it’s going to get poorer yet. Tighten tour belts folks.
BBC in your face political bias
boris / corbyn only tv debate 6 days before election
could work in SNP fav
scotland sees what’s on offer – anger being left out
There will be no snp labour agreement. Corbyn is toast in england. Boris will stroll it, england is a right wing fascist electorate. Scotland has 2 choices on the 12th dec, deliver a huge mandate for the snp or remain englands bitch forever.
You want to have heard the zoomers calling into Any Answers on BBC Radio 4 today on the subject of saving the Union. Only one Scottish caller and the rest were from England including a guy from Harrogate who couldn’t understand why in his words “a deluded minority” believe that Scotland belongs to the Scots when in fact we are a possession of England, just a small region. It really is worth a listen just to hear his jaw dropping ignorance and being allowed to spout this shite unchallenged by the (English) presenter.
Bobp: “Scotland has 2 choices on the 12th dec, deliver a huge mandate for the snp or remain englands bitch forever.”
Both is the most likely outcome.
“We hope there’s a backup for that plan of getting a second independence referendum from Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.”
D’ye think there is? What might it be?
Referendums (Scotland) bill?
We hope there’s a backup for that plan of getting a second independence referendum from Prime Minister Jeremy Corbyn.”
D’ye think there is? What might it be?
Referendums (Scotland) bill?
a week is a long time in politics
Brilliant and accurate cartoon 10 Nov.
Hi Jeremy, got a brilliant wheez for you. Well support you in a minority gov if you give us an S30.
After Indy we’ll bugger off and leave you without a working majority.
Anyone spot the tiny flaw in this proposition. SLab excluded cos’ well, mince and thick come to mind.
SAY NO TO POSTAL VOTING !
stop the crap
Can we do this?
The allegedly cute and cuddly BlowJo gies me the boak 🙁
Cellar Shark says:
8 November, 2019 at 3:46 pm
Yep, it was already clear that the majority of English voters had lost their marbles with Brexit. If they vote for BoJo after what we’ve already seen, I’ll be more than happy to have a hard border with England. And before any twat thinks I hate the English, my passport says I’m one of them.
Just because your English doesn’t exempt you from being a anglophobe, fascist piece of crap.