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And they’re off

Posted on November 09, 2019 by

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    642 to “And they’re off”

    1. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Making a big assumption that Labour won the GE. Assuming UK Parliament vote to allow a S30. ( Corbyn isnae Santa to deliver a s30 indyref by himself).

      Can you convince the readers that an (SNP policy s30) indyref will be conducted fairly, especially regarding an impartial state broadcaster and media?

    2. Terry callachan says:

      Joe…you said

      Income tax pays the big bond holders (central banks).

      That’s nonsense Joe

      Income tax s just the governments way of taking money out of the economy it doesn’t pay for anything
      Government spending always happens before taxation , across the world.

      Joe, you and Colin need a holiday you’re both erratic confusing and showing signs of stress

    3. Colin Alexander says:

      Terry callachan

      So do you believe an indyref2 campaign would be conducted in a fair and impartial manner, with unbiased media reporting of the campaigns?

      If you do, explain how.

    4. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Pete

      hope you remember that when your private pension gets gobbled up by the market.

      remember….it’s just business….

    5. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 15:50,

      Can you convince the readers that you’re anything but a curiously-industrious attention-seeking irrelevance?

    6. Dr Jim says:

      Away and convince your Arse it’s in the right place

    7. dadsarmy says:

      Basically speaking what happened is that Unionist Central was putting together a warning system for high alert times, where they would send up a signal for reinforcements. So they sent out the call for more maroons, but unfortunately someone misheard, and we see the results here on Wings.

    8. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 15:10,

      I don’t share your confidence that Corbyn will immediately agree to IR2 in the (somewhat unlikely) event he becomes next PM. I have a feeling that after a non-majority win, Labour would attempt to string the SNP along for as long as possible, (a) in order to get as many of its bills through the HoC as it can and (b) because it is an inherently Unionist party which will do its best to stall any Scottish breakaway whilst maximising its own return as in (a). Then (c) when that all falls apart, blame the SNP.

      In short, Labour c1979 redux.

    9. Colin Alexander says:

      We all know an indyref2 campaign would be extremely compromised by one of the most corrupt and biased state influenced media anywhere in the world.

      That’s before state interference from the UK Govt, civil service, security services and diplomatic services and massive funding from “dark money”.

      We saw it in indyref1.

      We’ve seen it ever since.

      We see it now in the General Election campaign .

      ——————————————-

      I’ve invited anyone to refute my arguments. They can’t. I get childish abuse in return, cos they know what I am saying is true.

    10. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 16:17,

      In fact, whoever becomes PM after 12.Dec, my feeling is that they will attempt to stall any possible IR2 until after the Holyrood elections of 2021, mainly in the hope that the pro-indy majority will be lost then and IR2 along with it. To be followed by a wasteland of mitigation whinging to further sap the morale.

      There’s a limit to how many mandates we are prepared to accumulate. We have instead to be ready to say “enough!”

      Whatever happens, it must be 2020 or bust.

    11. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 16:23,

      No, it’s because we know what you are saying is irrelevant. And you are the only one on here who doesn’t seem to appreciate that simple fact.

      The political Florence Foster Jenkins of WoS.

    12. gus1940 says:

      When listing those Scottish Resources on which England depends it is frequently stated that water is one.

      That is not currently the case as far as I am aware.

      However, given forecasts of future shortages of water in England once Indy is achieved it should be a matter of urgency for our Indy government to construct an all Scottish water grid to cope not just with any localised Scottish shortages but with said grid reaching the border at Gretna and Berwick so that we can export water to England and earn lots of lovely money to go with our other exportable resources.

    13. dadsarmy says:

      Oh. My. God. Look what I just found from 2011:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13765279

      “Boris Johnson: Move Welsh and Scottish water to England”

      You couldn’t make it up!

      Hey Dr Jim, anyone with connections to SNP heidyins, this GE could be a good time to pass this up the chain!

      @Rev
      If you’re short ideas for an article …

    14. dadsarmy says:

      Yay! If at first you don’t succeed get stroppy.

      General election 2019: SNP to take legal action over ITV election debate

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50410790

    15. Colin is the reinvented “Norse Warrior” who if I remember rightly was “Yo-Yo”in the good old days. The rev will soon hunt him.

    16. jfngw says:

      Is there any other democratic claiming country in the world where the governing party elected by its voters is barred from taking part in television debates by the broadcasters (controlled in another country) to elect it’s representatives. They will be offered a fig leaf of a multi party version but I suspect the head to head leaders may end up a no show, why would they turn up as they will be shown to be the empty vessels they are (Johnson in particular will be humiliated).

      If Johnson and Corbyn do a no show for the multi party debate I would hope the SNP would tell the broadcasters to shove it as they are then accepting they are minor party.

    17. Dr Jim says:

      @dadsarmy

      I reckon we could sell those folks a bit of water for their garden veg but seeing as Johnson’s a big fan of Trump he can pay for the pipeline and we’ll supply the meter for the charging, I mean they are the newly invented UK single market that Scotland can’t do without, or so they keep telling us

    18. galamcennalath says:

      I see the UK has lost out on a Tesla factory because Brexit has made it too big a risk. Germany wins.

      At least 7000 jobs will not now materialise.

      Shame iScotland is geared up to take it !

    19. dadsarmy says:

      Ah well, as we could say in one of my favourites, “The Gypsy” by Ralph McTell of Streets of London fame:

      “And the Tory boys with their greedy eyes
      Coveted our waters, coveted our waters.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APmOegNXJ8s

    20. Dr Jim says:

      “Instead of focussing on a stronger Scotland we’ve been focussing on what keeps us apart”

      Those are the words of Tory MP Kristene Hair in the Tories latest Party Political Broadcast

      I bet I know what you’re thinking, I nearly fell off my chair laughing as well, she admitted to NOT focussing on Scotland being stronger

      What a divvy

      She also said that “voting Scottish Conservative was the ONLY way to stop Nicola Sturgeon having a second Independence referendum” so no confidence in Boris Johnson’s words there eh

    21. dadsarmy says:

      You’ll get a laugh out of this. Headline in Herald:

      “SNP take legal action against ITV over exclusion from election debate”

      Unionist poster:

      “Who’s paying for this ?”

    22. galamcennalath says:

      dadsarmy says:

      “Who’s paying for this ?”

      Me! Donation made. They appear to be approaching members only. Email from Ian Blackford.

      “If the broadcasters get their way, Scotland will be shut out of election debates. We’ve got a message for them today, you’re not on! “

    23. Republicofscotland says:

      Corbyn in Scotland attempting to muddy the waters over Scottish independence in the same way he’s muddied the waters for the last three years over Brexit.

      The man cannot be trusted.

    24. Colin Alexander says:

      As I said:

      The UK has one of the most corrupt media in the world – yet the SNP want a British s30 indyref2.

      The SNP can’t even get a fair general election campaign from the media.

      When it’s this bad in a GE, where much of the state’s media assets are focused on discrediting Corbyn, what do you think it would be like in an indyref campaign where there is only one goal: keeping the Scotland colony under British Empire rule?

    25. sassenach says:

      Ian Blackford says they need £50k in 48 hours in his email, and I hope they manage it so that at least we put up a fight against the media.

    26. Republicofscotland says:

      Jeez oh, first Westminster drains and fritters our oil away, then they steal 6000sq miles of our sea, now Johnson wants our water. What next the taking of our first born.

    27. sassenach says:

      Coco – get up off yer knees, man ( if you are a man and not, as we suspect a wee boy).

      WE know we will never get a fair deal from the UK, but what’s the alternative to trying?

    28. Iain mhor says:

      @Starlaw 11:48am

      Indeed, I tried a bit of brevity (not my strong point!) and didn’t make a comprehensive list – that would come into the ‘aspiring to be’ their ‘peers’. Predicated on the belief that there is such a thing as one’s ‘peer’ and that one is ‘inferior’ to one’s peers, as much as superior to others. I dare say ‘cringes’ are also born there.
      The Frost Report’s ‘Class Sketch’ springs to mind

      In business the phenomenon manifests itself in the brutality of ‘middle management’ and its ilk; Continually attempting to haul over bodies kicking them from above, whilst kicking those below. An inherently merciless nature is required to succeed.
      A related phenomenon is the often ‘easy’ relationship between those at the apex and the nadir of both the social and business scale. Those shielded from and to a degree comfortably isolated from the ‘mosh-pit’.

      Needless to say, I consider myself without peer – Though far from peerless, as I’m now at the age where I need spectacles.
      I’ll get my coat…

    29. ScotsRenewables says:

      sassenach says:
      13 November, 2019 at 7:26 pm
      Ian Blackford says they need £50k in 48 hours in his email, and I hope they manage it so that at least we put up a fight against the media.

      My £10 has winged its way.

    30. Graeme says:

      So here we have Jeremy Corbyn an English politician telling the Scottish people they can’t have a referendum to decide their own future because he won’t allow it.

      He wont allow it, let that sink in for a moment, can you imagine if J C Junker told the English people they can’t have a referendum on EU membership because he won’t allow it.

      Who the fuck does Jeremy Corbyn think he is and what kind of Scot would vote for that muppet

      Come on Scotland surely we have more self respect than this

    31. Colin Alexander says:

      Sassenach

      My age is irrelevant, as is yours, sir.

      What’s the alternative to a s30 Indyref?

      Holyrood could be declared the Home Rule Parliament of Scotland, exercising Scotland’s sovereignty – as part of the Union – or a provisional declaration of indy.

      In preparation for Scotland holding its own Scotland only indyref in 2020.

      An indyref where the media could be subjected to strict legal controls of impartiality with international observers to observe and monitor and ensure a fairly run referendum under Scots Law.

      A referendum where breaches of impartiality by media could mean the threat of arrest or imprisonment for CEO’s of organisations who breach those laws of impartiality.

      How could they do that? The Home Rule Scottish Parliament takes control of the standards for indyrefs and makes laws to that effect.

    32. Colin Alexander says:

      I would rather donate to a Crowdfunder on the legal ways of dissolving the Union and the status of the parties and assets/ debts / obligations of the Union following dissolution of the Union.

      But the SNP and UK Govt prefer to keep us guessing.

    33. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander @ 8.22
      The Home rule ship has sailed Colin…
      It’s not good enough anymore, ( not that it ever was )
      it leaves Westminster in charge of Foreign Affairs and Defence.
      Why would we do that?
      The EU,Trade Deals and Trident and in the hands of Westminster,I don’t think so!!!

      Mibbi it’s Westminster’s last best hope,but since 2014 demonstrated to everyone that it’s no something Scotland need settle for and Westminster couldn’t be trusted with,they’re too late,
      It’s not us who missed a chance in 2014 it’s the Home Rulers….
      And I have to admit I’m lovin it…..
      The thought of having to give the Home Rule thing a try and slogg on for Indy was depressing but, they shot that fox in the Smith Commission and now the Home Rule dog don’t hunt… 🙂

    34. Dr Jim says:

      Isn’t it funny that Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney met with Nicola Sturgeon today and the news media didn’t notice or *forget* to report that because they were so focussed on what a doddery old gent from England can remember what he thinks he’s supposed to say on a question he thought he’d avoid because *policies*

      The BBC 9 news had a Labour aid on who got himself into the same flustered bother then tried the old *If the SNP don’t support Labour then they’ll be putting the Tories into office* crap, the interviewer wasn’t having it and kept nibbling at him until he went red faced and blurbled more crap, the Labour aid could’ve been Tory Annie Wells’s twin brother same crap and everything

      Extremely embarrassing exhibition all round

    35. Jock McDonnell says:

      Some really good candidate crowd funders on snp.org, if you can spare a fiver or so. Difficult I know sometimes & now there is legal action too for fairer broadcast coverage.

      Anyway, some are well funded already, others could do with a we donation – and for fundamentalists there is the true believer, Kenny Mac in East Lothian.

    36. Colin Alexander says:

      Liz g

      I agree the Devo-Max mince is over. They had one shot at it and failed to deliver.

      The Home Rule would be on OUR terms, not WM’s. By exercising our sovereignty and right to self-determination. ( Breeks, where are you?)

      It would be provisional and TEMPORARY, to allow us to make laws in preparation for the Scottish indyref and full independence.

      Laws such as: A fair and impartial indyref with international observers; breach of impartiality rules by media broacasters being a criminal offence subject to imprisonment by offenders’ CEO’s.

      ———————————-

      Against the UK constitution I hear the critics moaning. Is it? No court has ever ruled it so.
      If it were legally challenged and ruled to be unlawful as part of the UK state, we declare full independence in accordance with international law, so no longer subject to ANY UK constitutional law.

      Then we hold elections or referendum to confirm that.

    37. Dr Jim says:

      That’s my tenner in

    38. Bobp says:

      Graeme 8.20pm. Dec 13th will tell us all we need to know Graeme about whether Scots have self respect, or whether they are a gutless shower whose knees are welded to the ground in servility to their Westminster/english Tory masters.

    39. shug says:

      It is interesting that all answers about section 30 are along the lined of ‘we don’t think now is the time’ perhaps later and the interviewers never challenge or question their right to refuse it if the people have voted for an indyref2 party

      The fact they are never question, particularly by the BBC, says a lot. They have been clearly instructed not to ask further questions

    40. Heart of Galloway says:

      Ben McPherson excellent on Debate Night right now. Audience a true reflection of Scotland – majority backing for IR2, heavily pro-EU, internationalist.

      UKOK tag team of Sarah Boyack, Peter Chapman and the odious Alan Reid rightly getting laughed out of court.

      Also a telling factor: the audience is relatively youthful.

    41. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander @ 9.51
      Why….. We can have it all anyway first time around,there’s no need to mess about.
      In case you haven’t noticed Westminster are no very good at making and keeping “deals”

      And since you invoked Breeks….
      We need to write our Constitution,in which I’m betting the Scottish Government will be instructed that Scotland is to be nuclear free.
      Devon Max leaves the Trident issue with Westminster and our Scottish regiments available for their Wars ( not forgetting posting Scottish Soldiers to N. Ireland if they mess that up).
      We cannot, and should not, agree to allow the Westminster Government to do something ( host nuclear weapons ) in Scotland that the people of Scotland have forbidden the Scottish Government Constitutionally to do
      Or put off and delay the writing of Our Constitution to accommodate Westminster …

      Buggering about with some form of Devon Max is bizarre and could hold up our path to taking our place in Europe,I don’t mean only the EU,I mean as a European Nation forging it’s own path without Westminster dragging on us because of a hangover from some old Treaty.
      We need equality with all other Nations when dealing with Westminster or any other Country because, that’s what Nations do!!
      We are a Nation are we no,free to be bound by, or end, any and all Treaties?

    42. call me dave says:

      @Heart of Galloway

      Pretty much right there and the phone in part is just beginning.

      We’ll see what the BBC shortbread filters are like tonight.

      Oh Craig from Cumbernauld first up. Doesn’t trust politicians especially calling out the tories darn Sarf.

    43. robbo says:

      Who the feck was that Alan Reid there on debate night? Jesus, he’s a pure chube o a man that .

    44. Dr Jim says:

      Except for Labour’s Tory MP Ian Murray the events of today are pointing to a Labour wipeout in Scotland and an increase in SNP votes to oust the Tories as being a much more effective way of Labour voters to cast their vote

    45. chicmac says:

      @galamcennalath

      Reminds me of an old joke.

      General Wade was walking in the Highlands one day with his newest recruit.

      “See that fort boy? I built that to help organise and bring civilization to these peasants, but do they call me ‘Wade the great fort builder?'”

      The recruit answered. “I am sure I do not know sir, pray tell.”

      Wade spat out. “Do they Hell!”

      A little later Wade swept his hand downward and said. “Do you see this road we are walking on boy? I built this road and an entire network of roads throughout the Highlands but do they call me ‘Wade the great road builder’?”

      This time the boy merely looked in anticipation.

      Again Wade spat out. “Do they Hell!”

      A little further on Wade pointed to a bridge and said. “Do you see that bridge lad? I built that, I built hundreds of bridges but do they call me Wade the great bridge builder? Do – they – Hell!.”

      After walking some little way further the new recruit’s curiosity was irked enough to ask,albeit with some trepidation, “If they do not call you any of those things then might I enquire as to what they DO call you sir?”

      Wade stopped walking and turned to the boy with a fixing stare and said. “Listen boy. Whatever you might hear to the contrary. I was only trying to help that sheep get over the dyke.”

    46. Joe says:

      @ Terry Callachan

      Regarding your post at 3:54. Please tell me A: what is the source of all sovereign debt and B: how the principle and the interest is payed for?

    47. Joe says:

      @ Colin Alexander

      Replying to your post at 1:23 PM: personally I will never vote for identitarian radicals for any reason. My other point is that their ideologies which involves people losing basic rights is not something that wins votes. In this way they are throwing their supporters to the dogs also

    48. Joe says:

      @ Reluctant Nationalist

      What do you have in mind?

    49. Joe says:

      I see a lot of calls for some sort of censorship on this. Its easy to spot people who cant think for themselves – all issues will be binary with no room for nuance coupled wish to dismiss or silence alternate perspectives…especially if those perspectives might hold some uncomfortable truths: The SNP are using your votes to promote globalist agendas, not Scottish independence. Sorry folks!

    50. Robert Louis says:

      I see the red tories are back to telling OUTRIGHT lies in Scotland again. Jeremy Corbyn yesterday tweeted a complete out and out lie about Nicola Sturgeon not supporting a Labour Government. LABOUR KNEW THIS WAS A LIE.

      The full quote from Nicola was as follows;

      “I won’t help him in power, to get into power, to stay in power if he doesn’t accept the principle that whether there is a referendum in Scotland and what the timescale of that referendum should be should be determined by the people of Scotland.’”

      The part in BOLD was the part that LIAR CORBYN and his Red Tory apparatchiks deliberately missed out.

      Why would I ever vote for a bunch of out and out liars like Labour? No wonder Iain Murray struts about Morningside trying to pretend he’s not really from the Labour party.

      Labour- a bunch of liars in 2014, and a bunch of liars in 2019. They have learnt nothing. They deserve to be soundly punished at the polls on 12 December.

      THIS is just one of many reason why people in Scotland vote SNP. The blue, red and yellow Tores are just a bunch of lying ****s.

    51. Robert Louis says:

      It is now very clear, we need massive support for the SNP at this election. I am now happy at their stance on independence, so will happily vote for SNP.

      Indeed, I’m even going to donate to them again.

    52. jockmcx says:

      Lord’s muuck,
      Russian money has captured the British state and no one is talking about it.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpm2DU3ysIc&list=PL5CINNS1mgKO9lxCxLt5xPv5rRAgweU-9&index=133

    53. Joe says:

      @ Jockmcx

      Yeah. The Russians. It wasnt pissed off English working class that voted for Brexit. It was the Russians wot did it. It wont be the Scottish voting to leave the UK either – it will be Russian interference. Might as well just cancel both ideas now and stick it to big bad Vlad, eh?

    54. jockmcx says:

      Who mentioned brexit?

    55. jockmcx says:

      keep ur knickers on joe!

    56. Golfnut says:

      Here’s a wee reminder of just how well the SNP/SG have done over the last 10 yrs. Every single achievement is at risk if we don’t get out of this union.
      https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=727203504427840&id=143272075714717

    57. Abulhaq says:

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/jeremy-corbyn-dismisses-snp-calls-for-progressive-alliance-labour-sturgeon

      OK, THAT’’S IT, NO MORE NICE GUY ACT.
      SNP, KICK UNIONISM AND ITS LACKEYS OUT OF SCOTLAND.

    58. Capella says:

      Radio 4’s Festival of Tory Britain continues with much air time for them to announce their controls on immigration. Are there any other parties contesting this election?

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want.
      Is this legal?

    59. Shug says:

      He must have had a 10 to 15 min without challenge

    60. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Louis

      So where’s the crumbling to “ALLOW” the people of Scotland to hold an indyref2 that Nicola says was happening?
      Tories: No
      Labour: No
      LibDems:No

      What exactly is the SNP indyref policy, now the Empire has told the SNP to take a running jump with their s30 indyref2? Please explain.
      ————————————————-
      I must point out the Empire has no right to decide or refuse the people of Scotland exercising their sovereignty and democracy (Except if we (the SNP) ALLOW them to treat us this way.. That is a basic principle even pro-Empire supporters should seek to uphold, if they believe in democracy or Scottish sovereignty.

      That the SNP continue to ask to be “allowed” is shameful.

      There is only one thing worse than being treated like second-class colonial possessions: that’s the acceptance that you are second-class colonial possessions whose sovereign rights and democratic rights as human beings are to be decided by the likes of Boris (if I only had any integrity)Johnson and Jeremy (if I only had a spine) Corbyn .

      Shame on you Mr Johnson. Shame on you Mr Corbyn. Shame on you British Empire.

      Shame on you SNP for bending the knee and accepting this. Strong for Scotland? Get off your knees, throw away the s30 begging bowl. Stand up for Scotland’s sovereignty. Stand up for the sovereign and democratic rights of the people of Scotland.

      Do, as many other nations have done before to the British Empire: tell them: NO. You are not our masters. We shall be free!

    61. Famous15 says:

      In 1979 James Callaghan PM lost a vote of no confidence which ushered in the Thatcher Government a couple of months earlier than it would have been.

      In his autobiography Gallaghan emphatically blames rebels in the Labour party for his early downfall. SNP numbers were too low to impact the result back in that date!

      In an overwhelming number of elections,even if every Scottish MP supported Labour,the result would not have been influenced by Scotland’s MPs.

      Perhaps one of the best reasons to support Independence. Federalism would be even more foolish as it does not level the playing field.
      ,

    62. Colin Alexander says:

      Joe @6.02am

      I will vote for my local SNP candidate this time around as the best thing to do in the current circumstances. That’s despite, or partly because of, my belief the SNP expect they aren’t going to deliver an indyref before 2021.

      But, we need to give them enough rope…

      Then it will be: I told you so!

      But, if you think no voting SNP is the right thing to do, that’s your democratic right and I respect that.

    63. galamcennalath says:

      chicmac says:

      General Wade ….. was only trying to help that sheep get over the dyke.

      A Jacobite joke. Aye, stuck in a remote fort surrounded by hostile women …..

    64. Bill McLean says:

      Nothing from the Rev for some time now! Hope he’s OK. Does anyone know?

    65. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want. Is this legal?

      Their ‘get out’ is probably that he is no longer a serving politician nor spokesman for a particular party. A bit like the ‘impartial’ experts from ‘independent’ think tanks they wheel in.

      The BBC have their mission to protect the state and the establishment. They no longer pretend to hide their bias. The BBC are the enemies of democracy in Scotland. Their explicit role is to undermine and thwart it.

      Question really is …. what are they achieving? Getting more Scots heckles up and driving them to YES, or actually keeping gullible NOs on side?

    66. ScotsRenewables says:

      hackalumpoff says:
      14 November, 2019 at 7:10 am
      Fresh links here:
      https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/thursdays-links/#postid-426

      A great collection this morning, hacka

    67. jfngw says:

      Corbyn proves to be no different from Cameron, Johnson & Blair, he will lie and misquote to win power, that’s all that matters to him. He is another stooge of the British state that will bend to the establishment to retain Scotland’s resources.

    68. Terry callachan says:

      To Colin alexander

      You misunderstand S30

      When Scottish govt ask Westminster for a S30
      it’s not that they are asking Westminster IF Scotland can have independence

      What they are asking is Westminster’s agreement to Scotland being independent so that negotiations can take place thereafter to form an amicable agreement for the way forward.

      Such an agreement states in writing who gets what where and how.

      Scotland can declare independence any time it wants but we don’t want to do so without a majority of people in Scotland saying they are in favour of it because that would be undemocratic and would lead to uncooperative responses by all other nations including England and those in the EU.

      The way to proceed is with a majority of people in favour of Scottish independence voting that they wish independence.
      Westminster are holding back their agreement to a vote on independence because they know a majority are likely to be in favour of it but that will change once SNP increase the number of seats they have in the GE 12/12/20

      S30 isn’t Westminster giving permission to Scotland to become independent
      Only the people of Scotland can give that permission
      S30 is merely Westminster’s agreement that they get involved in the divorce proceedings

      It is in Scotland’s interest to have Westminster get involved in the divorce proceedings so as to avoid continuous wrangling over rights and possessions in the future

      It is not so much in Westminster’s interest given that they will no longer control Scotland outright but an uncooperative and unhappy partner is never a long lasting relationship

    69. @Famous15,

      Callaghan could have won the vote but one of the Labour MPs was very ill,

      although the MP said he would be more than willing to come to Westminster to vote (he could have stayed in an ambulance and voted) Callaghan declined,

      Labour whip refused to to use the pairing system (one of the opposition would not vote if someone ill),

      a Tory MP (against his own whip) decided the honorable (changed days) thing to do was not to vote,

      but Labour then declined the offer of Tory MP pairing.

      Two options for Labour to defeat vote of no confidence both declined.

    70. Breeks says:


      galamcennalath says:
      14 November, 2019 at 9:21 am
      Capella says:

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want. Is this legal?

      Their ‘get out’ is probably that he is no longer a serving politician nor spokesman for a particular party. A bit like the ‘impartial’ experts from ‘independent’ think tanks they wheel in…

      I agree the BritNat propaganda is detestable and despicable, but I think increasingly there is a big question about who is being damaged by it.

      Scotland, at last, is developing an awareness and a resistance to the indoctrination, and logically, it’s effect is experiencing diminishing returns. There is some hope flickers for Scotland…

      Look South however, at the narrow minded, brazen xenophobia and English exceptionalism which is currently recalibrating what the “Nation” deems to be the default perception of both itself and Johnny Foreigners, and I fear, for England, the ramifications of it’s poisonous media are going to last for decades and be very damaging to the English psyche and terrestrial nation for a very long time to come.

      I would rather be a Scot who is sickened by BBC indoctrination than an English person totally oblivious to their daily dose of pernicious mind poison.

      The irony is, both Scotland and England are united in having a common enemy… the BBC and all it’s BritNat ilk.

    71. Terry callachan says:

      Colin Alexander

      I understand your voting plan
      I think you are making the correct decision
      To vote SNP

      We can only predict the future but we cannot know it
      SNP is the only party that can get Scottish independence at present
      The rest will not

      Once Scottish independence is secured you can vote for whoever you want
      the SNP will no longer be necessary

      If SNP fail to get Scottish independence I’m sure the people in favour of Scottish independence will see a new party form to continue their cause

      We will know within two years from now

      I’m in favour of Scottish independence
      I will vote SNP in every election
      no matter who the candidate is
      Every vote in every election for SNP strengthens the SNP overall
      That’s what we need

      JOE knows that
      So do you I think

    72. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      Corbyn proves to be no different from Cameron, Johnson & Blair, he will lie and misquote to win power

      I suppose this is ‘post truth politics’.

      I reckon it has always been the case that voters preferred short bullet points to long winded explanations with lots of numbers, and some politicians lied as much as they thought they’d get away with. Not much has changed in a long time. So I’m not convinced that there has been a shift from facts to emotions.

      However, what does seem to have changed is the ‘get away with’ bit. A lot of politicians now push the lying to ridiculous levels. And the dreadful truth is they are often getting away with it!

      Who’s to blame? I am convinced it’s the MSM. When a ruthless politician shares the same agenda as biased media, that media encourages the lies and covers for them.

      What’s changed? 90+% of the media (including public service broadcasting) share the same biased agenda.

    73. Liz g says:

      Terry Callahan @ 9.34
      Well we agree on that….
      Section 30 is one of the greatest propaganda exercises of the British Nationalists State….
      It’s really Westminster giving “itself” permission to deal with an independence Vote from Scotland…
      It has very little to do with an actual vote.
      It might be illegal for – them – within – their – rules to go forward with a vote for Independence but it says nothing about that vote having taken place.
      Their comfort zone is not our issue!!!
      We give them the opportunity to smooth “their” path to ” getting separation done” after our vote, but it’s really not our fault if that fucks up their Parliament!!!

    74. remo says:

      Has Scotland also been colonised by the USA since one of our residents used “alternate” instead of “alternative”? Steps down off high-horse.

    75. Meindevon says:

      Haha. Sky news just announced their new series starting next week called The National Debates with a picture of the Union flag flying gloriously…upside down!

    76. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Bill McLean.

      He’s active on Twitter:-

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland

      You don’t need an account to read.

    77. Effijy says:

      Labour and Corbyn are just astonishing.
      They are going had off on a major house building scheme in Scotland,
      If they are voted in?
      That will be the so called Scottish Labour Party who while in power at Holyrood
      Built 6 new homes over a period of 5 years.

      They are also going to fight for equal rights and wages for women?
      Glasgow Labour Council fought tooth and nail for a decade and spent 100’s
      of thousands on legal bills to prevent equal payments for women.

      In a country with real journalists and a set of morals they would be asked about their contradictions and lies, but here we are stuck in the depths of corrupt UK land.

      LBC has a very interesting discussion on how our elections are influenced on line etc
      and how every country other than the UK accepting a report that highlights and proves on line
      Corruption and abuse affecting referendums and elections.

      Isn’t that strange Bojo and Uriah Grove refuse to accept the report.

    78. Abulhaq says:

      “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
      Mahatma Gandhi

    79. mr thms says:

      While Section 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 says the constitution is a reserved matter, I notice it specifically excludes holding referendums.

      The current process for holding a referendum requires a modification to Schedule 5, through Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 because there is an argument, that has not been tested in court, these two issues are connected.

      I would suggest the Referendums Bill going through the Scottish Parliament, when it becomes statute, will end the debate about getting the agreement of the PM to amend to Section 5, through a Section 30 Order, since the new Act will enable the Scottish Government to hold a referendum about subject because referendums do not involve changes to devolved or reserved matters.

      Referendums are not legally binding they are only advisory.

    80. Gary45% says:

      Effigy@10.47
      I heard the LBC topic in the car, as usual Russia getting the blame for the worlds ills.
      What I have found with LBC is when an “expert” is invited on, I always put said persons name into the internet with friends of “!!!” certain countries and no surprise which counties come up as friends.
      LBC promoting a level playing field? aye that will be right.

    81. starlaw says:

      Followed two BBC lorries and trailers heading for the Mews theatre Livingston, are we expecting Jeremy’s big red bus ?

    82. I wish people on here would stop using the unionists words like divorce separation etc., it’s freedom and independence plain and simple it like remainers who say cliff edge and crash out to make leave sound bad do not copy the unionists ploys call things what they are you are being brain washed to their way of portraying things waken up

    83. Sinky says:

      The red Tory candidate for Morningside, Ian Murray is using his Edinburgh evening News column to attack the SNP on education.

      But real researchers demolish politically motivated attacks on Curriculum for Excellence:

      https://t.co/eap59iVCfu

    84. Don`t watch, read or listen to any of the Great Brutish propoganda papers or stations,

      does anyone know if the Russians are getting the blame for James Le Mesurier (White helmets) falling to his death out his window,

      don`t know who is to blame but elite soldiers like Le Mesurier don`t just `fall` out windows.

    85. Dr Jim says:

      *I think what the Scottish people want*

      The minute Union politicians say these words we all know what’s coming, a whole load of garbage about what they’re going to do to change our minds from the actual things we keep telling them we don’t want

      Then the Union politicians tell us not to vote for the party they don’t like even though we say well actually we do like them that’s why they’re the government and the biggest party

      Then comes the clincher from the Union politicians from their point of view *The Threat* of retribution if we don’t follow the rules they want to impose upon us

      And England still after generations don’t understand that people don’t care for being spoken to like that and that’s why their Empire is no more

      It’s not just Scottish people who don’t like their shit, the world got heartily sick of it and chucked them out of their countries, what makes them think Scotland’s mind can be changed from doing the same thing too

    86. Gary45% says:

      Scot Finlayson@11.47
      When you look into the white helmets, they are not as squeaky clean as promoted by the establishment. Plenty of written and filmed evidence available.
      Surprised the Russians are not getting blamed for the flooding in England.

    87. gus1940 says:

      This site seems to have become a combination of Wingsovercoco and Wingsoverjoe.

      Its high time these 2 were disppeared.

    88. Colin Alexander says:

      Colin Alexander:

      Long-term supporter of independence and supporter of Scotland’s sovereignty but who is very critical of the SNP:

      Even I recommend: Vote SNP.

      For Scotland’s sake
      For democracy’s sake
      For you and your family’s sake

      Don’t vote Tory, Labour or LibDem for F**k’s sake!

    89. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Joe

      I could send you an email if you set up a quick disposable address and post it in a comment, or vice versa.

    90. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      remo @ 10:10,

      Well spotted. Just another wee clue. Also BTW the kind of English used by people who learned it as a foreign language.

    91. Colin Alexander says:

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/shop/

      You could support them and remind yourself of interesting facts about Scotland; you might even learn some new facts.

      Also, have a look at the links on the right-hand side of the page.

      All useful info to have when you educate your friends about how much potential we have as an independent sovereign nation.

    92. Sinky says:

      As Lesley Riddoch and Philipa Whitfield have tweeted

      Media state all NHS in UK are missing 4 hour waiting time targets in A&E.

      But look at stats. 89% seen in SNP Scotland. 77% in Tory England. 75% in Labour Wales.

    93. mr thms says:

      Iain Macwhirter on First Minister’s Question Time claims Nicola Sturgeon told him she wants a Scottish Referendum before another EU referendum. Interesting. When David Cameron announced English votes for English laws on the same day as the result of the Scottish Referendum, I must admit to thinking did he just announce England was now independent? The EU Commissioner at the time said Scotland could only join the EU under Article 49, and I wonder if David Cameron had Article 50 part 5 in mind when he announced the EU referendum?

    94. frogesque says:


      starlaw says:
      14 November, 2019 at 11:15 am
      Followed two BBC lorries and trailers heading for the Mews theatre Livingston, are we expecting Jeremy’s big red bus ?”

      Nup, they’re lost, still trying to work out how to use the SatNav to get to the Edinburgh rally.

    95. Ghillie says:

      Dr Jim @ 12.12 am

      The ousting of Tories of all colours in Scotland will be a wonderful thing =)

      Edinburgh Southers are optimistic that our SNP candidate Catriona MacDonald will be doing some impressive ousting too 🙂

    96. admiral says:

      Sinky says:
      14 November, 2019 at 1:29 pm
      As Lesley Riddoch and Philipa Whitfield have tweeted
      Media state all NHS in UK are missing 4 hour waiting time targets in A&E.
      But look at stats. 89% seen in SNP Scotland. 77% in Tory England. 75% in Labour Wales.

      There is also the small matter of how the “waiting time” is measured in each jurisdiction.

      In the English NHS, the 4 hour target is reset each time the patient moves through the process – entry, triage, investigation, treatment, admission/discharge – so many who are counted as “within 4 hours” could actually have been waiting significantly longer. NHS Scotland on the other hands targets 4 hours to complete all stages in the process, from entry to final admission/discharge, so actually the performance is much better than a simple comparison on non comparable figures would suggest.

    97. Capella says:

      @Sinky
      The red Tory candidate for Morningside, Ian Murray is using his Edinburgh evening News column to attack the SNP on education.

      But real researchers demolish politically motivated attacks on Curriculum for Excellence:

      Thx for the link to the TES article on Curriculum for Excellence. There is a considerable amount of garbage hurled at the SNP, mainly from the Tories but also Labour, about this. It’s good to see some objective research looking at the facts. Something alien to our foreign media.

      https://t.co/eap59iVCfu

    98. Dr Jim says:

      Political tribalism as it is today seems to me a reflection of how badly the two presidential parties have presided over each country in the UK as well as collectively leading to the common thread we all hear daily *If the Labour party got their act together I’d vote for them again* *The Tories are better on the economy and sometimes they have to be harder on the workshy spongers* *I’m not going to vote for anything new like those SNP they’re just doing all this stuff to get votes*

      And it’s odd because doing stuff to get votes is what politics used to be like a long time ago so that folk would vote for you, but now the big two parties demonise the others for doing stuff and concentrate on why they shouldn’t do the stuff that the other parties want to do

      *I’m working class so I vote Labour no matter how bad they are* *I consider myself slightly above the working class socially so I vote Tory* These are statements we’ve all heard and know and after writing them down and looking at them it makes you wonder who the hell these people think they are and where do they think they live

      Up to around thirty years ago or so not a soul ever gave a thought to *The country’s deficit or the country’s debt* that was the job of the politicians to deal with, that’s why we elected them, now the politicians have turned it around to make it our business as if it’s our responsibility any of this happens in order to abjure the responsibilty we elected them for

      So along comes a party in Scotland who begins with limited resources to start fixing the problem but their price for doing so is that we dump the other Bastirts who laid the blame on us and build something better, and yet there are still people who don’t see that as a good thing

      I just kinda see that as mentally irregular, hence the Tribal nonsense waiting and hoping for the people who caused the bother to change and become better people when they won’t, because those people who caused the tribalism have become more Tribal than the population they conned into being Tribal in the first place in order to support their wastage

      Vote SNP and dump the old Presidents of England leave them in the past and let’s have some new stuff

    99. dadsarmy says:

      Mmm:

      Yesterday it was ‘not in the first term’. Today, it’s ‘not in the first two years’. By the end of the week, at this rate, Corbyn will be demanding #indyref2020

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1194944899633876992

      I just noticed that Corbyn is an anagram of “Cry Nob”.

    100. SilverDarling says:

      O/T

      Ruth Davidson is bumping her gums about the prospect of two referendums in the near future for Scotland.

      One of the the tropes of this election has been that the public are sick of voting. The idea that having to vote is a chore and that the real work is done by politicians out of sight and without scrutiny. It has been perpetuated by ‘Brenda from Bristol’ vox pops and has been used by the media at every opportunity –

      ‘How fed up of Brexit / Independence are you? Just how much do you want this all to go away?’ How difficult will it be to vote in the dark, rain, snow…insert obstacle here. Will it spoil Christmas? Well, another Tory government will spoil Christmas more than most things I can think of.

      It is not the voting that is the problem it is the disingenuous campaigns that people despair of. It is the way our democracy is is presented to us in its dirty and diminished form that puts us off. The LibDems dodgy Bar Charts and claims on their dodgy leaflets. The Tory and Labour soundbite claims on prime time news that are never challenged. The disproportionate weight given to the weird 10% versus the 90% flat earthers in the spurious pursuit of balance.

      Nigel F***ing Farage, day in day out.

      And when they do get on the telly or radio, the ill preparedness of SNP representatives when they are asked by Andrew Neil or Nick Robinson the same questions they were asked 4 years ago.

      All we want is fairness and fact.

      If election claims were subject to legal challenge maybe it would be better but the idea always been pushed that it is too difficult to ensure that the truth is told to the public.

      Right, rant over for now.

    101. Abulhaq says:

      It was with the cooperation of the merchant bankers and mercenaries of the Indian subcontinent that the British, through the agency of East India company, got a foothold in and politically subjugated the region.
      The interests of ‘business’ turned India into a colony. Mega rich India was sold, just like poor Scotland, by the mercantile class whose allegiance can be measured by utility and the extent of self-interested ambition for profit and gain.
      The interests of ‘business’ and the heirs of those who profited from Scotland’s purchase are in the vanguard of opposition to Scotland’s independence.
      Nonetheless, they are all honourable and proud Scots.

    102. Dr Jim says:

      @SilverDarling 3:14pm

      That’s a really good and valid point the broadcasters and politicians constantly telling people what a nuisance to them it is to be exercising their rights to democracy by voting on stuff they don’t want them to vote on but when they do want them to vote for them it’s a different story

      Broadcaster brainwashing

    103. Colin Alexander says:

      Bedroom Tax

      UK Govt lose at Supreme Court Regarding Bedroom Tax, as it discriminates against disabled people.

      It contravened Article 14 taken with Article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

      http://archive.is/PjJmq

    104. dadsarmy says:

      For you Dundonians:

      In the coming weeks I’ll be visiting Leven, and Mount Florida and Battlefield. I’m also looking for Dundee neighbourhood recommendations. Send your suggestions to: marianne [dot] taylor [at] heraldandtimes [dot] co [dot] uk

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18018482.scotlands-insider-guide-gourock/

    105. Sinky says:

      @ admiral says : 14 November, 2019 at 2:20 pm

      More BBC bias by omission over A & E waiting times . They say its the same throughout the UK but don’t give the respective figures.

      Also have comments from Johnston and Corbyn but not Nicola Sturgeon on NHS Scotland.

    106. @Gary45%,

      agreed,

      White Helmets are a front for western infiltration,propoganda and misinformation in Syria,

      Le Mesurier was a mercenary though probably still under control of UK secret service,

      who got to him,

      his own for knowing to much and then blame the Russians ?

    107. Colin Alexander says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-FT3W-rXsA&feature=youtu.be

      “Moving to Scotland” political satirical song by Mitch Benn.

      Warning: contains swear words.

    108. Colin Alexander says:

      Have a look on youtube:

      “Moving to Scotland” Mitch Benn.

      Warning: contains swear words.

      But very funny.

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      If you liked the other video, check this one anaw:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSa-j-EIwc

      A song about Boris Johnson.

    110. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sinky @ 13:29, 17:13,
      admiral @ 14:20,

      The poor old BBC doesn’t seem to have a very sound grip of the essential facts, or maybe has a selection of them from which to pick-and-choose. But to give them some credit, this lunchtime on the R4 news slot, the interviewer served Matt Hancock with a curve ball by comparing the notably better A&E waiting figures they had for Scotland vs England, and the poor idiot was left struggling like a fish out of water. (While I nearly fell off my chair at the novelty of it all.) He mumbled something about those not being the figures he recognised, then went off at a desperate tangent about the SNP not spending all the money on the NHS that the UKGov had generously provided them with (thereby proving that the SG is an even better administrator, but there we are).

      Then to top it off, an appearance by Lesley Riddoch who used the correct like-for-like comparison figures (even better) which caused an explanation-of-sorts to be appended afterward of how those figures were derived.

      (There must be some kind of fairness criterion now being applied. I wonder why…?!)

    111. callmedave says:

      I saw that guy Ricky Leopard in a political broadcast there in a rather depressing ‘Scottish Labour’ punt at trying to convince us to vote Labour.

      Promises made to the gullible from a Colliery Museum of all things only Labour can improve the ‘country’ he said at the end.

      He meant the UK folks he never said ‘Scotland’ 🙁

    112. Stuart MacKay says:

      First Corby with a tartan scarf and now Ricky in a colliery museum. Who is planning Liebor’s campaign? Boris Johnson?

    113. hackalumpoff says:

      @Coco: 14 November, 2019 at 6:20 pm
      I posted that tune on Off Topic last night,try and keep up.

    114. mumsyhugs says:

      Well I’ve had it with the SNP – just spotted Jeremy cutting a dash with a tartan scarf a la Bay City Rollers so he will be getting my vote after this show of understanding the Scottish psyche. (What a muppet – and an insult. Will he sport a leek in his top pocket when he visits Wales?!)

    115. Dan says:

      May be it was down to the full moon, but I woke up* yesterday and rejoined the SNP!

      *When I say “woke up”, I mean I stopped sleeping, rather than becoming a biology denying roaster that spends my time on a hand loom weaving coconut fibre trousers and stitching together kiwi fruit skins to make a dapper planet saving suede-like shirt, whilst moaning about the various injustices and inequalities we supposedly endure.
      eg. That of my fellow short arse countrymen eh, countryfolk eh, countryentities suffer from in the world of basketball.
      A situation that arises because the hoop is proportionally harder for vertically challenged people sorry, entities to put the ball in than it is for those with more physical altitude.
      Surely if we are striving for equality for all this means tall people need to have height reduction surgery thus equalising the skill required for all to earn pro-basketball level wages.
      Anyway, I digress…

      I rejoined so I could hit the means streets of my locality and go around the doors campaigning again. Have to say over the past couple of days in my rural area I’m picking up a marked difference with people being significantly more receptive to SNP and the Indy cause.
      Presumably the ever extending duration of the clown show emanating from Westminster has really begun to grate on people and they are slowly coming round to considering there are other options.
      Labour Scotchland, with their leader Reflux Langoustine seem about as popular as munching a plate of out of date seafood.
      Even a hardcore LibDem EU Remainer I know is coming around and considering coming over to SNP, and even canvassing too! A process I hope I helped along a tad further by pointing out serial vowel abuser Swineson’s voting record.

    116. Robert Louis says:

      Stand up and take a bow, Krishnan guru-murthy, so-called ‘journalist’ of so-called Channel 4 news. Who knew a so-called ‘journalist’ on television could be so wilfully stupid.

      No seriously, take a bow Krishnan for rank stupidity.

      Tonight on Channel 4 news, Krishnan, in very serious tones happily told people that the NHS is in crisis, by quoting NHS statistics from the NHS IN ENGLAND. He went further in his voyage of stupidity, however, by then saying that all the main political parties were saying they could rescue the ‘failing NHS’ – but yet again, he was meaning ENGLAND only.

      Now, here’s the thing, Krishnan knows that the NHS in England is run separately from the NHS in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland, but so stupid is Channel 4’s Krishnan (a so-called ‘journalist’), that he decided to just ignore those cold hard facts, and merely reference the ENGLISH NHS. Lazy.

      Why is this important? Well firstly, the NHS in Scotland, run by the SNP SCOTTISH government is doing far, far better that that in England, by quite some margin. A smart journalist would hold up the example of SNP-run Scotland, and say why is the NHS in Tory run England doing so much worse? But, no, not for our Krishnan, that would have been too much like real actual f***ing journalism and FACT checking. It would have involved actual work.

      Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the current election is for the Westminster parliament. Westminster ONLY has control over the NHS in England (and at present, temporarily, by proxy for N.Ireland). Health is devolved in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland, and is a subject for debate to those respective parliaments. In the current Westminster election, what Jeremy Corby or Boris Johnson say about the NHS ONLY APPLIES TO ENGLAND. Mp’s elected to Westminster have no say in the NHS in Wales or Scotland.

      Epic fail by Krishnan Guru-murthy , the so-called ‘journalist’ from Channel 4 ‘news’.

      This kind of utterly shoddy and inexcusably incorrect reporting by the so-called ‘journalists’ in London is EXACTLY the reason why the UK is in a mess. It’s also yet another reason why so many Scots now want an end to this tawdry undemocratic ‘union’ with England.

      It’s not like devolution is something new anymore. No excuse, just rank incompetence and lazy, lazy reporting by somebody who we might have expected to do better.

      So-called ‘journalists’, letting the voters down yet again, and failing to hold politicians to account, during an election. Again.

    117. SilverDarling says:

      @Dr Jim 3.31 pm

      The dice are so loaded in this stinking corrupt union it makes me sick. Politicians should be accountable for all the lies they tell and the media should be to. A rolling fact check is the bare minimum but it is the background narrative we need to watch out for.

      Matt Hancock was challenged on R4 today as to why Scotland’s A& E figures are better but we still get Reporting Scotland headlines saying there are Flu vaccine shortages for school children and then as a whisper …reflecting UK wide shortages….

      Corbyn was bleating again about devolved issues, specifically housing and poverty in Scotland. As if his party played no part in the social engineering of the 50s and 60s that ripped apart communities in Glasgow and has left its legacy in our physical and mental health. No one challenged him. He can go on about 1979 and is given a platform to spout rubbish but why we die sooner or have more addicts is never allowed to be addressed properly.

      I get a visceral reaction to their lies now and I don’t know what I will do if they come knocking at my door!

    118. ScottieDog says:

      Folks
      Looking for an article I read ages ago about how devolution came about.
      I’m pretty sure new labours hand was forced into having a devolution referendum by the EU but can’t remember where I read it,
      Any ideas?

    119. SilverDarling says:

      I should point out that multifactorial poverty is not ‘devolved’ but the implication from Corbyn was that it was the SNP who were responsible for it, not austerity or the hideous policies of the Tories.

      I despise him and this incarnation of Labour all the more because he puts on this facade of caring and social justice when all it is is posturing.protest and ultimately about political point scoring.

    120. Gary45% says:

      I’ve posted this before, but just in case anyone missed it previously, or simply skipped past my usual ramblings.
      Ever wondered how the media control the population?
      You tube “The occupation of the American Mind” narrated by Roger Waters, its approx 120 mins long. It will help you understand how they get away with it.
      You will never hear the UK mainstream radio/TV channels promoting it.
      Please take 120mins of your time and be educated.

    121. mr thms says:

      Start the clock!

      http://www.snp.org/start-the-clock-50-snp-achievements-in-government/

      Nicola Sturgeon reels off 50 SNP achievements..

    122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Louis @ 20:04,

      C4 News has long been the TV equivalent of the Grauniad, English Establishment wannabe progressive but with a particular blind spot as big as a barn door. These days it’s almost as if they have given up trying to be anything more than hardcore English.

      Yup, we’re a definite part of the UK when the UK forces big changes upon us that we don’t want, but otherwise we somehow don’t exist.

      Media Brigadoonism, you might call it.

    123. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      And on that subject of differential exclusion during a “UK” general election, WGD is on the ball as always:

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/11/14/the-voice-that-must-not-be-heard

    124. Gary45% says:

      oops approx. 1h20mins

    125. chicmac says:

      I will forgive the English determination to ignore Scotland just so long as we, through independence, get the opportunity to return the compliment.

    126. Katie says:

      When will MSM get it right? Its the Scottish National Party….not the Scottish Nationalist (Evil Separatist??) Party!!! Really annoying now!!! (Just heard it on ITV!!)

    127. galamcennalath says:

      Janet Godley strikes again ( on Boris) ….

      https://www.instagram.com/p/B42xHzglqTP/

      He really is someone just made to have the pish taken out if him.

    128. Katie says:

      Sorry… still in rant mode here…. but how on earth do we get rid of the attitude “I always vote labour because my (Auntie/Uncle/Mum/Dad/Great gran twice removed) would turn in their graves if Ivoted any other way??”…. I can say one thing for sure…. if any of those before you saw the political scene now they would be turning in their graves if you DID!!!

    129. Famous15 says:

      If you cannot see a difference between being in the European Union and being in the United Kingdom ,you have no sense of the difference between a golf club and being a victim of a protection racket.

    130. Liz g says:

      Scottie Dog @ 9.92
      I think the article you are looking for is from – Electric Scotland –
      But I don’t know how much truth is in it?

    131. Dr Jim says:

      @ScottieDog

      You are indeed correct that devolution came about because it was one of the conditions of the EU that England create proper devolution as a human rights issue, that’s why the Tories were against it then and still are today, and would dissolve devolution at the drop of a hat if they could find a way to do it

      Labour however saw devolution as an opportunity to own Scotland as their own private feifdom that would Scotland be stupid enough to vote Labour till the end of time

      Also the bonus point for England was *OIL* which was why Tony Blair and Donald Dewar hatched their plan of moving the maritime border from Berwick on Tweed to Arbroath in order to secure that 6.000 square mile area to the east of Scotland that contained OIL which is not British OIL but English OIL

      The legacy of the so called great Donald Dewar has been somewhat shrouded in nice fuzziness because we shouldn’t speak ill of the dead and all that but he was no better than the rest of the grubbing Labour party self aggrandising themselves and I actually knew him and he was a Bastirt like the rest of them in total league with the Daily Record to write down every word he said

      There are people in Scotland who still haven’t heard of the McCrone report which details that very theft of ocean and OIL

    132. Dan says:

      @ Katie at 10:16 pm

      RE. Getting names right. Well it is annoying and even our own SNP elected persons occasionally fall into the trap of using wrong terminology.
      However, all the other parties hardly conform to their actual given names.
      EG.
      Liberal Democrats are neither particularity liberal or democratic.
      Conservative party not really doing a good job for businesses or social stability and continuity as they create ongoing carnage.
      Labour, well where to start…

      I just rebuke the whole nationalist thing with either highlighting the difference between ethnic and civic nationalism, the latter of which better identifies the YES movement.
      I also state I am not a natural nationalist, I’m actually an anti-corruptionist but the only practical way to engineer a fix for that endemic issue within the UK context is through avenues which involve using the best political tool we have to fix that problem, which in Scotland is supporting the SNP with a view to ending the union.
      After that occurs it will hopefully facilitate the ability of the electorates of their respective Kingdoms to begin to build better systems rather than us all be tied to the current shitfest with its inherent inbuilt democratic deficit.

      Yesterday I was chatting to a person with a UKIP sticker on their car, but also noticed they were a republican…
      Hmm, that was an easy opening to highlight there may be a far greater chance of achieving their desired republic in an independent Scotland. The seed was duly planted and I left on good terms.

    133. jfngw says:

      @mumsyhug

      Ah Corbyn and the Bay City Rollers (about the right age for him) and his ‘tartan’ scarf.

      Well we sang shang-a-la as we ran from the clans
      Doin’ I huvnie a scoobie do I
      We were all in the news
      With our lying views
      Surely our vote cannot die

    134. jfngw says:

      I’m not really watching any election coverage, what’s the point. They are currently at the bidding war stage, promising spending they have no intention of meeting once in power.

      I’m voting for independence, the rest is just background music, bread and circuses. If we don’t get independence soon, will the last person to leave Scotland turn out the lights (I knew that Sun headline would be useful someday).

    135. manandboy says:

      So, The Propaganda War continues. The Battle for ‘the hearts and minds’ of the British voter is ongoing. To the Victor’s the spoils. For the English Establishment this means power and control of both the political and economic control of the ‘mini-empire’, the UK.
      Scotland is an indispensable component of this Empire, due to its vast natural resources, which effectively funds and underwrites the day to day functioning of England.

      Boris Johnson PM, is essentially a puppet of the Establishment, pure and simple. The model of an upright and ‘British’ Prime Minister has been abandoned. A new populist right-wing, bumbling, socially inarticulate character, has been put in place to entertain the voters.

      British politics has become a contest between stand-up comedians, but with deadly intent.

      Scotland has only one escape route.

      Independence.

      If you value your life, vote SNP.

      This is serious.

    136. manandboy says:

      BREXIT

      We are but microbes, living on a molusk, attached to a whale which swims in the ocean, which is 70% of the planet, which is a speck of dust in the Milky Way, a galaxy among billions, beyond which more galaxies exist.

      Perspective.

      Brexit necessitates perspective.

      Vote SNP

    137. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi ScottieDog at 9:02 pm.

      You typed,
      “Folks
      Looking for an article I read ages ago about how devolution came about.
      I’m pretty sure new labours hand was forced into having a devolution referendum by the EU but can’t remember where I read it,
      Any ideas?”

      Someone up above mentioned this…
      “Tony Blair, who had had no intention of doing anything about devolution, but was now forced to take action, whether he liked it or not. The lack of serious political opposition to the devolution legislation may seem surprising, but it merely reflects the fact that all the party leaderships at Westminster knew the background and were aware that it was an obligation that could not be avoided.”

      https://www.electricscotland.com/independence/uncommittee.htm

    138. chicmac says:

      BDTT
      James Wilkie, who was one of the prime movers in the ‘Scotland UN’ project, sadly died this week.

      At the time an issue raised in the Council of Europe by ‘Scotland UN’ was aided by a de facto scenario where proposed new EU applicants, mostly of an Eastern European variety, were being required to make certain guarantees re devolution and autonomy in the name of democracy.

      This was,understandably, met with some objections from applicants based on existing anomalies within the EU, like the UK’s position on devolution.

      That, combined with ‘Scotland UN’s’ already on going supplication did. IMO, put a great deal of pressure on Blair to yield on the issue of devolution.

    139. Breeks says:

      If this isn’t a spoof, it has to the most toe curling, cringeworthy piece of Electoral Broadcasting since Field Marshal Ruth Davidson interviewed Theresa May in a woodland clearing somewhere near Aberdeen.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1194320833977733123

      What’s utterly, utterly insane with bells on, is that this smarmy lying fuckblob is still odds on favourite to win. Seriously England. Wake the fuck up. This is a whole different league of national embarrassment than fat drunken yobo’s throwing chairs and beer bottles at foreign policemen. The rest of the world is gonna rip the piss out you for ever.

      And if this isn’t a spoof, UK Prime Minister “I-build-model-buses-Boris” doesn’t even know the words to the Wheels of the Bus. Even the Clangers can sing the words to the Wheels of the Bus… and they’re made of wool.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1194990910129541121

      Hmmm… can somebody please physically pinch my big toe? Maybe I’ve been hit by a lorry or something, and I’m lying in intensive care in a coma, and what I think is reality is just a morphine induced but stunningly lifelike hallucination which Bobby Ewing would be proud of.

      This shit is just too preposterous to be real.



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