The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


And they’re off

Posted on November 09, 2019 by

Print Friendly

    783 to “And they’re off”

    1. Meindevon says:

      Dear God, KD now on the Politics Show. Maybe a house move down south coming up? And if she get her face well known about the bbc, who knows a wee ermine coat thrown in too.

      Still maybe she’ll suddenly understand that Scotland and Scottish politics is actually not of any interest to the London political and journalistic scenes…unless there’s any guarantee of Unionist votes.

    2. twathater says:

      RJS 8.04 AM Paul Sweeney’s arse starting to nip , poor wee Paul never mind he and his pal annie ( the claes folder ) will be looked after by their colonialist chooooommms

    3. Meindevon says:

      @ Capella

      Here’s hoping Stu is busy on other things that might involve the setting up of a new political party?

    4. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Craig Murray’s petition, pasted from the web site…

      Petitions
      UK Government and Parliament

      Closed petition
      Official observers from OSCE ODIHR to monitor the next Scottish referendum.

      A Scottish Independence referendum determines the relationship between two potentially separate states. The official body for monitoring democratic procedures within the OSCE is its Office of Democratic Institutions and Human Rights. Monitoring includes media balance and ballot conduct
      More details

      This petition closed early because of a General Election
      Find out more on the Petitions Committee website

      11,138 signatures

    5. Dr Jim says:

      If Boris Johnson says he’s going to refuse a section 30 order why does he keep saying the ONLY way to avoid a referendum is to vote Tory

      If Scotland were a colony, protectorate or territory of the UK Boris Johnson would indeed be correct in legally denying Independence to such an entity and hoping against a legal challenge for statehood of that entity

      Scotland is none of these things however, Scotland IS the UK as much as is England whether over time those rights and privileges have been suborned and removed by collaboration with the Labour party in Scotland or not

      These rights and privileges nonetheless still legally exist and may not be denied by one partner of the United Kingdom from the other

      Just as Jeremy Corbyn switches his language whenever he talks about referendums in Scotland because to admit co-operation with Scotlands National Party loses him votes in England because intrinsically England is anti Scottish because successive governments in that country have demonised Scotland as they have done every other country on earth in order to cement the notion that *everybody’s out to do harm to the UK because they’re so great*

      Jeremy Corbyn has every intention of agreeing to a section 30 order immediately on his election should he win but he just can’t open his mouth and tell the truth about it in exactly in the same way as he won’t tell the truth about his EU policy

      Both Johnson and Corbyn know that if Scotland’s National Party win the General Election there’ll be no ifs or buts about it they will do what’s required because they can’t do anything else, oh they’ll make a lot of noise about it to keep the England voters on side about the devious and dastardly Scots attempting to ruin their great *country* and how if the Scots don’t want to be subsidised by the mighty English anymore *We should let them go and good riddance* but we’ll always be friends, and England will be happy in the untrue and uncertain knowledge that they will be financially better off without Scotland dragging them down

      Johnson will use Farage logic on England just as Farage used it to convince England leaving the EU was going to make them richer in all sorts of ways that aren’t true, but if you want to convince a country like England to vote for you and go along with what you say, just tell them they’ll have more money to spend and they’ll dump their grannies

      And we’ve all seen the polls to prove that conclusively on this website

    6. Terry callachan says:

      Colin Alexander… bye
      Fair well , cheerio ,

      Everyone vote SNP

    7. Colin Alexander says:

      Dr Jim

      Making a big assumption that Labour won the GE. Assuming UK Parliament vote to allow a S30. ( Corbyn isnae Santa to deliver a s30 indyref by himself).

      Can you convince the readers that an (SNP policy s30) indyref will be conducted fairly, especially regarding an impartial state broadcaster and media?

    8. Terry callachan says:

      Joe…you said

      Income tax pays the big bond holders (central banks).

      That’s nonsense Joe

      Income tax s just the governments way of taking money out of the economy it doesn’t pay for anything
      Government spending always happens before taxation , across the world.

      Joe, you and Colin need a holiday you’re both erratic confusing and showing signs of stress

    9. Colin Alexander says:

      Terry callachan

      So do you believe an indyref2 campaign would be conducted in a fair and impartial manner, with unbiased media reporting of the campaigns?

      If you do, explain how.

    10. Ahundredthidiot says:

      Pete

      hope you remember that when your private pension gets gobbled up by the market.

      remember….it’s just business….

    11. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 15:50,

      Can you convince the readers that you’re anything but a curiously-industrious attention-seeking irrelevance?

    12. Dr Jim says:

      Away and convince your Arse it’s in the right place

    13. dadsarmy says:

      Basically speaking what happened is that Unionist Central was putting together a warning system for high alert times, where they would send up a signal for reinforcements. So they sent out the call for more maroons, but unfortunately someone misheard, and we see the results here on Wings.

    14. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 15:10,

      I don’t share your confidence that Corbyn will immediately agree to IR2 in the (somewhat unlikely) event he becomes next PM. I have a feeling that after a non-majority win, Labour would attempt to string the SNP along for as long as possible, (a) in order to get as many of its bills through the HoC as it can and (b) because it is an inherently Unionist party which will do its best to stall any Scottish breakaway whilst maximising its own return as in (a). Then (c) when that all falls apart, blame the SNP.

      In short, Labour c1979 redux.

    15. Colin Alexander says:

      We all know an indyref2 campaign would be extremely compromised by one of the most corrupt and biased state influenced media anywhere in the world.

      That’s before state interference from the UK Govt, civil service, security services and diplomatic services and massive funding from “dark money”.

      We saw it in indyref1.

      We’ve seen it ever since.

      We see it now in the General Election campaign .

      ——————————————-

      I’ve invited anyone to refute my arguments. They can’t. I get childish abuse in return, cos they know what I am saying is true.

    16. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      me @ 16:17,

      In fact, whoever becomes PM after 12.Dec, my feeling is that they will attempt to stall any possible IR2 until after the Holyrood elections of 2021, mainly in the hope that the pro-indy majority will be lost then and IR2 along with it. To be followed by a wasteland of mitigation whinging to further sap the morale.

      There’s a limit to how many mandates we are prepared to accumulate. We have instead to be ready to say “enough!”

      Whatever happens, it must be 2020 or bust.

    17. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 16:23,

      No, it’s because we know what you are saying is irrelevant. And you are the only one on here who doesn’t seem to appreciate that simple fact.

      The political Florence Foster Jenkins of WoS.

    18. gus1940 says:

      When listing those Scottish Resources on which England depends it is frequently stated that water is one.

      That is not currently the case as far as I am aware.

      However, given forecasts of future shortages of water in England once Indy is achieved it should be a matter of urgency for our Indy government to construct an all Scottish water grid to cope not just with any localised Scottish shortages but with said grid reaching the border at Gretna and Berwick so that we can export water to England and earn lots of lovely money to go with our other exportable resources.

    19. dadsarmy says:

      Oh. My. God. Look what I just found from 2011:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-13765279

      “Boris Johnson: Move Welsh and Scottish water to England”

      You couldn’t make it up!

      Hey Dr Jim, anyone with connections to SNP heidyins, this GE could be a good time to pass this up the chain!

      @Rev
      If you’re short ideas for an article …

    20. dadsarmy says:

      Yay! If at first you don’t succeed get stroppy.

      General election 2019: SNP to take legal action over ITV election debate

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50410790

    21. Colin is the reinvented “Norse Warrior” who if I remember rightly was “Yo-Yo”in the good old days. The rev will soon hunt him.

    22. jfngw says:

      Is there any other democratic claiming country in the world where the governing party elected by its voters is barred from taking part in television debates by the broadcasters (controlled in another country) to elect it’s representatives. They will be offered a fig leaf of a multi party version but I suspect the head to head leaders may end up a no show, why would they turn up as they will be shown to be the empty vessels they are (Johnson in particular will be humiliated).

      If Johnson and Corbyn do a no show for the multi party debate I would hope the SNP would tell the broadcasters to shove it as they are then accepting they are minor party.

    23. Dr Jim says:

      @dadsarmy

      I reckon we could sell those folks a bit of water for their garden veg but seeing as Johnson’s a big fan of Trump he can pay for the pipeline and we’ll supply the meter for the charging, I mean they are the newly invented UK single market that Scotland can’t do without, or so they keep telling us

    24. galamcennalath says:

      I see the UK has lost out on a Tesla factory because Brexit has made it too big a risk. Germany wins.

      At least 7000 jobs will not now materialise.

      Shame iScotland is geared up to take it !

    25. dadsarmy says:

      Ah well, as we could say in one of my favourites, “The Gypsy” by Ralph McTell of Streets of London fame:

      “And the Tory boys with their greedy eyes
      Coveted our waters, coveted our waters.”

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APmOegNXJ8s

    26. Dr Jim says:

      “Instead of focussing on a stronger Scotland we’ve been focussing on what keeps us apart”

      Those are the words of Tory MP Kristene Hair in the Tories latest Party Political Broadcast

      I bet I know what you’re thinking, I nearly fell off my chair laughing as well, she admitted to NOT focussing on Scotland being stronger

      What a divvy

      She also said that “voting Scottish Conservative was the ONLY way to stop Nicola Sturgeon having a second Independence referendum” so no confidence in Boris Johnson’s words there eh

    27. dadsarmy says:

      You’ll get a laugh out of this. Headline in Herald:

      “SNP take legal action against ITV over exclusion from election debate”

      Unionist poster:

      “Who’s paying for this ?”

    28. galamcennalath says:

      dadsarmy says:

      “Who’s paying for this ?”

      Me! Donation made. They appear to be approaching members only. Email from Ian Blackford.

      “If the broadcasters get their way, Scotland will be shut out of election debates. We’ve got a message for them today, you’re not on! “

    29. Republicofscotland says:

      Corbyn in Scotland attempting to muddy the waters over Scottish independence in the same way he’s muddied the waters for the last three years over Brexit.

      The man cannot be trusted.

    30. Colin Alexander says:

      As I said:

      The UK has one of the most corrupt media in the world – yet the SNP want a British s30 indyref2.

      The SNP can’t even get a fair general election campaign from the media.

      When it’s this bad in a GE, where much of the state’s media assets are focused on discrediting Corbyn, what do you think it would be like in an indyref campaign where there is only one goal: keeping the Scotland colony under British Empire rule?

    31. sassenach says:

      Ian Blackford says they need £50k in 48 hours in his email, and I hope they manage it so that at least we put up a fight against the media.

    32. Republicofscotland says:

      Jeez oh, first Westminster drains and fritters our oil away, then they steal 6000sq miles of our sea, now Johnson wants our water. What next the taking of our first born.

    33. sassenach says:

      Coco – get up off yer knees, man ( if you are a man and not, as we suspect a wee boy).

      WE know we will never get a fair deal from the UK, but what’s the alternative to trying?

    34. Iain mhor says:

      @Starlaw 11:48am

      Indeed, I tried a bit of brevity (not my strong point!) and didn’t make a comprehensive list – that would come into the ‘aspiring to be’ their ‘peers’. Predicated on the belief that there is such a thing as one’s ‘peer’ and that one is ‘inferior’ to one’s peers, as much as superior to others. I dare say ‘cringes’ are also born there.
      The Frost Report’s ‘Class Sketch’ springs to mind

      In business the phenomenon manifests itself in the brutality of ‘middle management’ and its ilk; Continually attempting to haul over bodies kicking them from above, whilst kicking those below. An inherently merciless nature is required to succeed.
      A related phenomenon is the often ‘easy’ relationship between those at the apex and the nadir of both the social and business scale. Those shielded from and to a degree comfortably isolated from the ‘mosh-pit’.

      Needless to say, I consider myself without peer – Though far from peerless, as I’m now at the age where I need spectacles.
      I’ll get my coat…

    35. ScotsRenewables says:

      sassenach says:
      13 November, 2019 at 7:26 pm
      Ian Blackford says they need £50k in 48 hours in his email, and I hope they manage it so that at least we put up a fight against the media.

      My £10 has winged its way.

    36. Graeme says:

      So here we have Jeremy Corbyn an English politician telling the Scottish people they can’t have a referendum to decide their own future because he won’t allow it.

      He wont allow it, let that sink in for a moment, can you imagine if J C Junker told the English people they can’t have a referendum on EU membership because he won’t allow it.

      Who the fuck does Jeremy Corbyn think he is and what kind of Scot would vote for that muppet

      Come on Scotland surely we have more self respect than this

    37. Colin Alexander says:

      Sassenach

      My age is irrelevant, as is yours, sir.

      What’s the alternative to a s30 Indyref?

      Holyrood could be declared the Home Rule Parliament of Scotland, exercising Scotland’s sovereignty – as part of the Union – or a provisional declaration of indy.

      In preparation for Scotland holding its own Scotland only indyref in 2020.

      An indyref where the media could be subjected to strict legal controls of impartiality with international observers to observe and monitor and ensure a fairly run referendum under Scots Law.

      A referendum where breaches of impartiality by media could mean the threat of arrest or imprisonment for CEO’s of organisations who breach those laws of impartiality.

      How could they do that? The Home Rule Scottish Parliament takes control of the standards for indyrefs and makes laws to that effect.

    38. Colin Alexander says:

      I would rather donate to a Crowdfunder on the legal ways of dissolving the Union and the status of the parties and assets/ debts / obligations of the Union following dissolution of the Union.

      But the SNP and UK Govt prefer to keep us guessing.

    39. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander @ 8.22
      The Home rule ship has sailed Colin…
      It’s not good enough anymore, ( not that it ever was )
      it leaves Westminster in charge of Foreign Affairs and Defence.
      Why would we do that?
      The EU,Trade Deals and Trident and in the hands of Westminster,I don’t think so!!!

      Mibbi it’s Westminster’s last best hope,but since 2014 demonstrated to everyone that it’s no something Scotland need settle for and Westminster couldn’t be trusted with,they’re too late,
      It’s not us who missed a chance in 2014 it’s the Home Rulers….
      And I have to admit I’m lovin it…..
      The thought of having to give the Home Rule thing a try and slogg on for Indy was depressing but, they shot that fox in the Smith Commission and now the Home Rule dog don’t hunt… 🙂

    40. Dr Jim says:

      Isn’t it funny that Irish Foreign Minister Simon Coveney met with Nicola Sturgeon today and the news media didn’t notice or *forget* to report that because they were so focussed on what a doddery old gent from England can remember what he thinks he’s supposed to say on a question he thought he’d avoid because *policies*

      The BBC 9 news had a Labour aid on who got himself into the same flustered bother then tried the old *If the SNP don’t support Labour then they’ll be putting the Tories into office* crap, the interviewer wasn’t having it and kept nibbling at him until he went red faced and blurbled more crap, the Labour aid could’ve been Tory Annie Wells’s twin brother same crap and everything

      Extremely embarrassing exhibition all round

    41. Jock McDonnell says:

      Some really good candidate crowd funders on snp.org, if you can spare a fiver or so. Difficult I know sometimes & now there is legal action too for fairer broadcast coverage.

      Anyway, some are well funded already, others could do with a we donation – and for fundamentalists there is the true believer, Kenny Mac in East Lothian.

    42. Colin Alexander says:

      Liz g

      I agree the Devo-Max mince is over. They had one shot at it and failed to deliver.

      The Home Rule would be on OUR terms, not WM’s. By exercising our sovereignty and right to self-determination. ( Breeks, where are you?)

      It would be provisional and TEMPORARY, to allow us to make laws in preparation for the Scottish indyref and full independence.

      Laws such as: A fair and impartial indyref with international observers; breach of impartiality rules by media broacasters being a criminal offence subject to imprisonment by offenders’ CEO’s.

      ———————————-

      Against the UK constitution I hear the critics moaning. Is it? No court has ever ruled it so.
      If it were legally challenged and ruled to be unlawful as part of the UK state, we declare full independence in accordance with international law, so no longer subject to ANY UK constitutional law.

      Then we hold elections or referendum to confirm that.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      That’s my tenner in

    44. Bobp says:

      Graeme 8.20pm. Dec 13th will tell us all we need to know Graeme about whether Scots have self respect, or whether they are a gutless shower whose knees are welded to the ground in servility to their Westminster/english Tory masters.

    45. shug says:

      It is interesting that all answers about section 30 are along the lined of ‘we don’t think now is the time’ perhaps later and the interviewers never challenge or question their right to refuse it if the people have voted for an indyref2 party

      The fact they are never question, particularly by the BBC, says a lot. They have been clearly instructed not to ask further questions

    46. Heart of Galloway says:

      Ben McPherson excellent on Debate Night right now. Audience a true reflection of Scotland – majority backing for IR2, heavily pro-EU, internationalist.

      UKOK tag team of Sarah Boyack, Peter Chapman and the odious Alan Reid rightly getting laughed out of court.

      Also a telling factor: the audience is relatively youthful.

    47. Liz g says:

      Colin Alexander @ 9.51
      Why….. We can have it all anyway first time around,there’s no need to mess about.
      In case you haven’t noticed Westminster are no very good at making and keeping “deals”

      And since you invoked Breeks….
      We need to write our Constitution,in which I’m betting the Scottish Government will be instructed that Scotland is to be nuclear free.
      Devon Max leaves the Trident issue with Westminster and our Scottish regiments available for their Wars ( not forgetting posting Scottish Soldiers to N. Ireland if they mess that up).
      We cannot, and should not, agree to allow the Westminster Government to do something ( host nuclear weapons ) in Scotland that the people of Scotland have forbidden the Scottish Government Constitutionally to do
      Or put off and delay the writing of Our Constitution to accommodate Westminster …

      Buggering about with some form of Devon Max is bizarre and could hold up our path to taking our place in Europe,I don’t mean only the EU,I mean as a European Nation forging it’s own path without Westminster dragging on us because of a hangover from some old Treaty.
      We need equality with all other Nations when dealing with Westminster or any other Country because, that’s what Nations do!!
      We are a Nation are we no,free to be bound by, or end, any and all Treaties?

    48. call me dave says:

      @Heart of Galloway

      Pretty much right there and the phone in part is just beginning.

      We’ll see what the BBC shortbread filters are like tonight.

      Oh Craig from Cumbernauld first up. Doesn’t trust politicians especially calling out the tories darn Sarf.

    49. robbo says:

      Who the feck was that Alan Reid there on debate night? Jesus, he’s a pure chube o a man that .

    50. Dr Jim says:

      Except for Labour’s Tory MP Ian Murray the events of today are pointing to a Labour wipeout in Scotland and an increase in SNP votes to oust the Tories as being a much more effective way of Labour voters to cast their vote

    51. chicmac says:

      @galamcennalath

      Reminds me of an old joke.

      General Wade was walking in the Highlands one day with his newest recruit.

      “See that fort boy? I built that to help organise and bring civilization to these peasants, but do they call me ‘Wade the great fort builder?'”

      The recruit answered. “I am sure I do not know sir, pray tell.”

      Wade spat out. “Do they Hell!”

      A little later Wade swept his hand downward and said. “Do you see this road we are walking on boy? I built this road and an entire network of roads throughout the Highlands but do they call me ‘Wade the great road builder’?”

      This time the boy merely looked in anticipation.

      Again Wade spat out. “Do they Hell!”

      A little further on Wade pointed to a bridge and said. “Do you see that bridge lad? I built that, I built hundreds of bridges but do they call me Wade the great bridge builder? Do – they – Hell!.”

      After walking some little way further the new recruit’s curiosity was irked enough to ask,albeit with some trepidation, “If they do not call you any of those things then might I enquire as to what they DO call you sir?”

      Wade stopped walking and turned to the boy with a fixing stare and said. “Listen boy. Whatever you might hear to the contrary. I was only trying to help that sheep get over the dyke.”

    52. Joe says:

      @ Terry Callachan

      Regarding your post at 3:54. Please tell me A: what is the source of all sovereign debt and B: how the principle and the interest is payed for?

    53. Joe says:

      @ Colin Alexander

      Replying to your post at 1:23 PM: personally I will never vote for identitarian radicals for any reason. My other point is that their ideologies which involves people losing basic rights is not something that wins votes. In this way they are throwing their supporters to the dogs also

    54. Joe says:

      @ Reluctant Nationalist

      What do you have in mind?

    55. Joe says:

      I see a lot of calls for some sort of censorship on this. Its easy to spot people who cant think for themselves – all issues will be binary with no room for nuance coupled wish to dismiss or silence alternate perspectives…especially if those perspectives might hold some uncomfortable truths: The SNP are using your votes to promote globalist agendas, not Scottish independence. Sorry folks!

    56. Robert Louis says:

      I see the red tories are back to telling OUTRIGHT lies in Scotland again. Jeremy Corbyn yesterday tweeted a complete out and out lie about Nicola Sturgeon not supporting a Labour Government. LABOUR KNEW THIS WAS A LIE.

      The full quote from Nicola was as follows;

      “I won’t help him in power, to get into power, to stay in power if he doesn’t accept the principle that whether there is a referendum in Scotland and what the timescale of that referendum should be should be determined by the people of Scotland.’”

      The part in BOLD was the part that LIAR CORBYN and his Red Tory apparatchiks deliberately missed out.

      Why would I ever vote for a bunch of out and out liars like Labour? No wonder Iain Murray struts about Morningside trying to pretend he’s not really from the Labour party.

      Labour- a bunch of liars in 2014, and a bunch of liars in 2019. They have learnt nothing. They deserve to be soundly punished at the polls on 12 December.

      THIS is just one of many reason why people in Scotland vote SNP. The blue, red and yellow Tores are just a bunch of lying ****s.

    57. Robert Louis says:

      It is now very clear, we need massive support for the SNP at this election. I am now happy at their stance on independence, so will happily vote for SNP.

      Indeed, I’m even going to donate to them again.

    58. jockmcx says:

      Lord’s muuck,
      Russian money has captured the British state and no one is talking about it.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpm2DU3ysIc&list=PL5CINNS1mgKO9lxCxLt5xPv5rRAgweU-9&index=133

    59. Joe says:

      @ Jockmcx

      Yeah. The Russians. It wasnt pissed off English working class that voted for Brexit. It was the Russians wot did it. It wont be the Scottish voting to leave the UK either – it will be Russian interference. Might as well just cancel both ideas now and stick it to big bad Vlad, eh?

    60. jockmcx says:

      Who mentioned brexit?

    61. jockmcx says:

      keep ur knickers on joe!

    62. Golfnut says:

      Here’s a wee reminder of just how well the SNP/SG have done over the last 10 yrs. Every single achievement is at risk if we don’t get out of this union.
      https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=727203504427840&id=143272075714717

    63. Abulhaq says:

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/jeremy-corbyn-dismisses-snp-calls-for-progressive-alliance-labour-sturgeon

      OK, THAT’’S IT, NO MORE NICE GUY ACT.
      SNP, KICK UNIONISM AND ITS LACKEYS OUT OF SCOTLAND.

    64. Capella says:

      Radio 4’s Festival of Tory Britain continues with much air time for them to announce their controls on immigration. Are there any other parties contesting this election?

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want.
      Is this legal?

    65. Shug says:

      He must have had a 10 to 15 min without challenge

    66. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert Louis

      So where’s the crumbling to “ALLOW” the people of Scotland to hold an indyref2 that Nicola says was happening?
      Tories: No
      Labour: No
      LibDems:No

      What exactly is the SNP indyref policy, now the Empire has told the SNP to take a running jump with their s30 indyref2? Please explain.
      ————————————————-
      I must point out the Empire has no right to decide or refuse the people of Scotland exercising their sovereignty and democracy (Except if we (the SNP) ALLOW them to treat us this way.. That is a basic principle even pro-Empire supporters should seek to uphold, if they believe in democracy or Scottish sovereignty.

      That the SNP continue to ask to be “allowed” is shameful.

      There is only one thing worse than being treated like second-class colonial possessions: that’s the acceptance that you are second-class colonial possessions whose sovereign rights and democratic rights as human beings are to be decided by the likes of Boris (if I only had any integrity)Johnson and Jeremy (if I only had a spine) Corbyn .

      Shame on you Mr Johnson. Shame on you Mr Corbyn. Shame on you British Empire.

      Shame on you SNP for bending the knee and accepting this. Strong for Scotland? Get off your knees, throw away the s30 begging bowl. Stand up for Scotland’s sovereignty. Stand up for the sovereign and democratic rights of the people of Scotland.

      Do, as many other nations have done before to the British Empire: tell them: NO. You are not our masters. We shall be free!

    67. Famous15 says:

      In 1979 James Callaghan PM lost a vote of no confidence which ushered in the Thatcher Government a couple of months earlier than it would have been.

      In his autobiography Gallaghan emphatically blames rebels in the Labour party for his early downfall. SNP numbers were too low to impact the result back in that date!

      In an overwhelming number of elections,even if every Scottish MP supported Labour,the result would not have been influenced by Scotland’s MPs.

      Perhaps one of the best reasons to support Independence. Federalism would be even more foolish as it does not level the playing field.
      ,

    68. Colin Alexander says:

      Joe @6.02am

      I will vote for my local SNP candidate this time around as the best thing to do in the current circumstances. That’s despite, or partly because of, my belief the SNP expect they aren’t going to deliver an indyref before 2021.

      But, we need to give them enough rope…

      Then it will be: I told you so!

      But, if you think no voting SNP is the right thing to do, that’s your democratic right and I respect that.

    69. galamcennalath says:

      chicmac says:

      General Wade ….. was only trying to help that sheep get over the dyke.

      A Jacobite joke. Aye, stuck in a remote fort surrounded by hostile women …..

    70. Bill McLean says:

      Nothing from the Rev for some time now! Hope he’s OK. Does anyone know?

    71. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want. Is this legal?

      Their ‘get out’ is probably that he is no longer a serving politician nor spokesman for a particular party. A bit like the ‘impartial’ experts from ‘independent’ think tanks they wheel in.

      The BBC have their mission to protect the state and the establishment. They no longer pretend to hide their bias. The BBC are the enemies of democracy in Scotland. Their explicit role is to undermine and thwart it.

      Question really is …. what are they achieving? Getting more Scots heckles up and driving them to YES, or actually keeping gullible NOs on side?

    72. ScotsRenewables says:

      hackalumpoff says:
      14 November, 2019 at 7:10 am
      Fresh links here:
      https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/thursdays-links/#postid-426

      A great collection this morning, hacka

    73. jfngw says:

      Corbyn proves to be no different from Cameron, Johnson & Blair, he will lie and misquote to win power, that’s all that matters to him. He is another stooge of the British state that will bend to the establishment to retain Scotland’s resources.

    74. Terry callachan says:

      To Colin alexander

      You misunderstand S30

      When Scottish govt ask Westminster for a S30
      it’s not that they are asking Westminster IF Scotland can have independence

      What they are asking is Westminster’s agreement to Scotland being independent so that negotiations can take place thereafter to form an amicable agreement for the way forward.

      Such an agreement states in writing who gets what where and how.

      Scotland can declare independence any time it wants but we don’t want to do so without a majority of people in Scotland saying they are in favour of it because that would be undemocratic and would lead to uncooperative responses by all other nations including England and those in the EU.

      The way to proceed is with a majority of people in favour of Scottish independence voting that they wish independence.
      Westminster are holding back their agreement to a vote on independence because they know a majority are likely to be in favour of it but that will change once SNP increase the number of seats they have in the GE 12/12/20

      S30 isn’t Westminster giving permission to Scotland to become independent
      Only the people of Scotland can give that permission
      S30 is merely Westminster’s agreement that they get involved in the divorce proceedings

      It is in Scotland’s interest to have Westminster get involved in the divorce proceedings so as to avoid continuous wrangling over rights and possessions in the future

      It is not so much in Westminster’s interest given that they will no longer control Scotland outright but an uncooperative and unhappy partner is never a long lasting relationship

    75. @Famous15,

      Callaghan could have won the vote but one of the Labour MPs was very ill,

      although the MP said he would be more than willing to come to Westminster to vote (he could have stayed in an ambulance and voted) Callaghan declined,

      Labour whip refused to to use the pairing system (one of the opposition would not vote if someone ill),

      a Tory MP (against his own whip) decided the honorable (changed days) thing to do was not to vote,

      but Labour then declined the offer of Tory MP pairing.

      Two options for Labour to defeat vote of no confidence both declined.

    76. Breeks says:


      galamcennalath says:
      14 November, 2019 at 9:21 am
      Capella says:

      Over on R Scotland, Douglas Alexander extolling his views on Scottish Labour and what most Scots want. Is this legal?

      Their ‘get out’ is probably that he is no longer a serving politician nor spokesman for a particular party. A bit like the ‘impartial’ experts from ‘independent’ think tanks they wheel in…

      I agree the BritNat propaganda is detestable and despicable, but I think increasingly there is a big question about who is being damaged by it.

      Scotland, at last, is developing an awareness and a resistance to the indoctrination, and logically, it’s effect is experiencing diminishing returns. There is some hope flickers for Scotland…

      Look South however, at the narrow minded, brazen xenophobia and English exceptionalism which is currently recalibrating what the “Nation” deems to be the default perception of both itself and Johnny Foreigners, and I fear, for England, the ramifications of it’s poisonous media are going to last for decades and be very damaging to the English psyche and terrestrial nation for a very long time to come.

      I would rather be a Scot who is sickened by BBC indoctrination than an English person totally oblivious to their daily dose of pernicious mind poison.

      The irony is, both Scotland and England are united in having a common enemy… the BBC and all it’s BritNat ilk.

    77. Terry callachan says:

      Colin Alexander

      I understand your voting plan
      I think you are making the correct decision
      To vote SNP

      We can only predict the future but we cannot know it
      SNP is the only party that can get Scottish independence at present
      The rest will not

      Once Scottish independence is secured you can vote for whoever you want
      the SNP will no longer be necessary

      If SNP fail to get Scottish independence I’m sure the people in favour of Scottish independence will see a new party form to continue their cause

      We will know within two years from now

      I’m in favour of Scottish independence
      I will vote SNP in every election
      no matter who the candidate is
      Every vote in every election for SNP strengthens the SNP overall
      That’s what we need

      JOE knows that
      So do you I think

    78. galamcennalath says:

      jfngw says:

      Corbyn proves to be no different from Cameron, Johnson & Blair, he will lie and misquote to win power

      I suppose this is ‘post truth politics’.

      I reckon it has always been the case that voters preferred short bullet points to long winded explanations with lots of numbers, and some politicians lied as much as they thought they’d get away with. Not much has changed in a long time. So I’m not convinced that there has been a shift from facts to emotions.

      However, what does seem to have changed is the ‘get away with’ bit. A lot of politicians now push the lying to ridiculous levels. And the dreadful truth is they are often getting away with it!

      Who’s to blame? I am convinced it’s the MSM. When a ruthless politician shares the same agenda as biased media, that media encourages the lies and covers for them.

      What’s changed? 90+% of the media (including public service broadcasting) share the same biased agenda.

    79. Liz g says:

      Terry Callahan @ 9.34
      Well we agree on that….
      Section 30 is one of the greatest propaganda exercises of the British Nationalists State….
      It’s really Westminster giving “itself” permission to deal with an independence Vote from Scotland…
      It has very little to do with an actual vote.
      It might be illegal for – them – within – their – rules to go forward with a vote for Independence but it says nothing about that vote having taken place.
      Their comfort zone is not our issue!!!
      We give them the opportunity to smooth “their” path to ” getting separation done” after our vote, but it’s really not our fault if that fucks up their Parliament!!!

    80. remo says:

      Has Scotland also been colonised by the USA since one of our residents used “alternate” instead of “alternative”? Steps down off high-horse.

    81. Meindevon says:

      Haha. Sky news just announced their new series starting next week called The National Debates with a picture of the Union flag flying gloriously…upside down!

    82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Bill McLean.

      He’s active on Twitter:-

      https://twitter.com/WingsScotland

      You don’t need an account to read.

    83. Effijy says:

      Labour and Corbyn are just astonishing.
      They are going had off on a major house building scheme in Scotland,
      If they are voted in?
      That will be the so called Scottish Labour Party who while in power at Holyrood
      Built 6 new homes over a period of 5 years.

      They are also going to fight for equal rights and wages for women?
      Glasgow Labour Council fought tooth and nail for a decade and spent 100’s
      of thousands on legal bills to prevent equal payments for women.

      In a country with real journalists and a set of morals they would be asked about their contradictions and lies, but here we are stuck in the depths of corrupt UK land.

      LBC has a very interesting discussion on how our elections are influenced on line etc
      and how every country other than the UK accepting a report that highlights and proves on line
      Corruption and abuse affecting referendums and elections.

      Isn’t that strange Bojo and Uriah Grove refuse to accept the report.

    84. Abulhaq says:

      “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
      Mahatma Gandhi

    85. mr thms says:

      While Section 5 of the Scotland Act 1998 says the constitution is a reserved matter, I notice it specifically excludes holding referendums.

      The current process for holding a referendum requires a modification to Schedule 5, through Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998 because there is an argument, that has not been tested in court, these two issues are connected.

      I would suggest the Referendums Bill going through the Scottish Parliament, when it becomes statute, will end the debate about getting the agreement of the PM to amend to Section 5, through a Section 30 Order, since the new Act will enable the Scottish Government to hold a referendum about subject because referendums do not involve changes to devolved or reserved matters.

      Referendums are not legally binding they are only advisory.

    86. Gary45% says:

      Effigy@10.47
      I heard the LBC topic in the car, as usual Russia getting the blame for the worlds ills.
      What I have found with LBC is when an “expert” is invited on, I always put said persons name into the internet with friends of “!!!” certain countries and no surprise which counties come up as friends.
      LBC promoting a level playing field? aye that will be right.

    87. starlaw says:

      Followed two BBC lorries and trailers heading for the Mews theatre Livingston, are we expecting Jeremy’s big red bus ?

    88. I wish people on here would stop using the unionists words like divorce separation etc., it’s freedom and independence plain and simple it like remainers who say cliff edge and crash out to make leave sound bad do not copy the unionists ploys call things what they are you are being brain washed to their way of portraying things waken up

    89. Sinky says:

      The red Tory candidate for Morningside, Ian Murray is using his Edinburgh evening News column to attack the SNP on education.

      But real researchers demolish politically motivated attacks on Curriculum for Excellence:

      https://t.co/eap59iVCfu

    90. Don`t watch, read or listen to any of the Great Brutish propoganda papers or stations,

      does anyone know if the Russians are getting the blame for James Le Mesurier (White helmets) falling to his death out his window,

      don`t know who is to blame but elite soldiers like Le Mesurier don`t just `fall` out windows.

    91. Dr Jim says:

      *I think what the Scottish people want*

      The minute Union politicians say these words we all know what’s coming, a whole load of garbage about what they’re going to do to change our minds from the actual things we keep telling them we don’t want

      Then the Union politicians tell us not to vote for the party they don’t like even though we say well actually we do like them that’s why they’re the government and the biggest party

      Then comes the clincher from the Union politicians from their point of view *The Threat* of retribution if we don’t follow the rules they want to impose upon us

      And England still after generations don’t understand that people don’t care for being spoken to like that and that’s why their Empire is no more

      It’s not just Scottish people who don’t like their shit, the world got heartily sick of it and chucked them out of their countries, what makes them think Scotland’s mind can be changed from doing the same thing too

    92. Gary45% says:

      Scot Finlayson@11.47
      When you look into the white helmets, they are not as squeaky clean as promoted by the establishment. Plenty of written and filmed evidence available.
      Surprised the Russians are not getting blamed for the flooding in England.

    93. gus1940 says:

      This site seems to have become a combination of Wingsovercoco and Wingsoverjoe.

      Its high time these 2 were disppeared.

    94. Colin Alexander says:

      Colin Alexander:

      Long-term supporter of independence and supporter of Scotland’s sovereignty but who is very critical of the SNP:

      Even I recommend: Vote SNP.

      For Scotland’s sake
      For democracy’s sake
      For you and your family’s sake

      Don’t vote Tory, Labour or LibDem for F**k’s sake!

    95. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ Joe

      I could send you an email if you set up a quick disposable address and post it in a comment, or vice versa.

    96. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      remo @ 10:10,

      Well spotted. Just another wee clue. Also BTW the kind of English used by people who learned it as a foreign language.

    97. Colin Alexander says:

      http://www.businessforscotland.com/shop/

      You could support them and remind yourself of interesting facts about Scotland; you might even learn some new facts.

      Also, have a look at the links on the right-hand side of the page.

      All useful info to have when you educate your friends about how much potential we have as an independent sovereign nation.

    98. Sinky says:

      As Lesley Riddoch and Philipa Whitfield have tweeted

      Media state all NHS in UK are missing 4 hour waiting time targets in A&E.

      But look at stats. 89% seen in SNP Scotland. 77% in Tory England. 75% in Labour Wales.

    99. mr thms says:

      Iain Macwhirter on First Minister’s Question Time claims Nicola Sturgeon told him she wants a Scottish Referendum before another EU referendum. Interesting. When David Cameron announced English votes for English laws on the same day as the result of the Scottish Referendum, I must admit to thinking did he just announce England was now independent? The EU Commissioner at the time said Scotland could only join the EU under Article 49, and I wonder if David Cameron had Article 50 part 5 in mind when he announced the EU referendum?

    100. frogesque says:


      starlaw says:
      14 November, 2019 at 11:15 am
      Followed two BBC lorries and trailers heading for the Mews theatre Livingston, are we expecting Jeremy’s big red bus ?”

      Nup, they’re lost, still trying to work out how to use the SatNav to get to the Edinburgh rally.

    101. Ghillie says:

      Dr Jim @ 12.12 am

      The ousting of Tories of all colours in Scotland will be a wonderful thing =)

      Edinburgh Southers are optimistic that our SNP candidate Catriona MacDonald will be doing some impressive ousting too 🙂

    102. admiral says:

      Sinky says:
      14 November, 2019 at 1:29 pm
      As Lesley Riddoch and Philipa Whitfield have tweeted
      Media state all NHS in UK are missing 4 hour waiting time targets in A&E.
      But look at stats. 89% seen in SNP Scotland. 77% in Tory England. 75% in Labour Wales.

      There is also the small matter of how the “waiting time” is measured in each jurisdiction.

      In the English NHS, the 4 hour target is reset each time the patient moves through the process – entry, triage, investigation, treatment, admission/discharge – so many who are counted as “within 4 hours” could actually have been waiting significantly longer. NHS Scotland on the other hands targets 4 hours to complete all stages in the process, from entry to final admission/discharge, so actually the performance is much better than a simple comparison on non comparable figures would suggest.

    103. Capella says:

      @Sinky
      The red Tory candidate for Morningside, Ian Murray is using his Edinburgh evening News column to attack the SNP on education.

      But real researchers demolish politically motivated attacks on Curriculum for Excellence:

      Thx for the link to the TES article on Curriculum for Excellence. There is a considerable amount of garbage hurled at the SNP, mainly from the Tories but also Labour, about this. It’s good to see some objective research looking at the facts. Something alien to our foreign media.

      https://t.co/eap59iVCfu

    104. Dr Jim says:

      Political tribalism as it is today seems to me a reflection of how badly the two presidential parties have presided over each country in the UK as well as collectively leading to the common thread we all hear daily *If the Labour party got their act together I’d vote for them again* *The Tories are better on the economy and sometimes they have to be harder on the workshy spongers* *I’m not going to vote for anything new like those SNP they’re just doing all this stuff to get votes*

      And it’s odd because doing stuff to get votes is what politics used to be like a long time ago so that folk would vote for you, but now the big two parties demonise the others for doing stuff and concentrate on why they shouldn’t do the stuff that the other parties want to do

      *I’m working class so I vote Labour no matter how bad they are* *I consider myself slightly above the working class socially so I vote Tory* These are statements we’ve all heard and know and after writing them down and looking at them it makes you wonder who the hell these people think they are and where do they think they live

      Up to around thirty years ago or so not a soul ever gave a thought to *The country’s deficit or the country’s debt* that was the job of the politicians to deal with, that’s why we elected them, now the politicians have turned it around to make it our business as if it’s our responsibility any of this happens in order to abjure the responsibilty we elected them for

      So along comes a party in Scotland who begins with limited resources to start fixing the problem but their price for doing so is that we dump the other Bastirts who laid the blame on us and build something better, and yet there are still people who don’t see that as a good thing

      I just kinda see that as mentally irregular, hence the Tribal nonsense waiting and hoping for the people who caused the bother to change and become better people when they won’t, because those people who caused the tribalism have become more Tribal than the population they conned into being Tribal in the first place in order to support their wastage

      Vote SNP and dump the old Presidents of England leave them in the past and let’s have some new stuff

    105. dadsarmy says:

      Mmm:

      Yesterday it was ‘not in the first term’. Today, it’s ‘not in the first two years’. By the end of the week, at this rate, Corbyn will be demanding #indyref2020

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1194944899633876992

      I just noticed that Corbyn is an anagram of “Cry Nob”.

    106. SilverDarling says:

      O/T

      Ruth Davidson is bumping her gums about the prospect of two referendums in the near future for Scotland.

      One of the the tropes of this election has been that the public are sick of voting. The idea that having to vote is a chore and that the real work is done by politicians out of sight and without scrutiny. It has been perpetuated by ‘Brenda from Bristol’ vox pops and has been used by the media at every opportunity –

      ‘How fed up of Brexit / Independence are you? Just how much do you want this all to go away?’ How difficult will it be to vote in the dark, rain, snow…insert obstacle here. Will it spoil Christmas? Well, another Tory government will spoil Christmas more than most things I can think of.

      It is not the voting that is the problem it is the disingenuous campaigns that people despair of. It is the way our democracy is is presented to us in its dirty and diminished form that puts us off. The LibDems dodgy Bar Charts and claims on their dodgy leaflets. The Tory and Labour soundbite claims on prime time news that are never challenged. The disproportionate weight given to the weird 10% versus the 90% flat earthers in the spurious pursuit of balance.

      Nigel F***ing Farage, day in day out.

      And when they do get on the telly or radio, the ill preparedness of SNP representatives when they are asked by Andrew Neil or Nick Robinson the same questions they were asked 4 years ago.

      All we want is fairness and fact.

      If election claims were subject to legal challenge maybe it would be better but the idea always been pushed that it is too difficult to ensure that the truth is told to the public.

      Right, rant over for now.

    107. Abulhaq says:

      It was with the cooperation of the merchant bankers and mercenaries of the Indian subcontinent that the British, through the agency of East India company, got a foothold in and politically subjugated the region.
      The interests of ‘business’ turned India into a colony. Mega rich India was sold, just like poor Scotland, by the mercantile class whose allegiance can be measured by utility and the extent of self-interested ambition for profit and gain.
      The interests of ‘business’ and the heirs of those who profited from Scotland’s purchase are in the vanguard of opposition to Scotland’s independence.
      Nonetheless, they are all honourable and proud Scots.

    108. Dr Jim says:

      @SilverDarling 3:14pm

      That’s a really good and valid point the broadcasters and politicians constantly telling people what a nuisance to them it is to be exercising their rights to democracy by voting on stuff they don’t want them to vote on but when they do want them to vote for them it’s a different story

      Broadcaster brainwashing

    109. Colin Alexander says:

      Bedroom Tax

      UK Govt lose at Supreme Court Regarding Bedroom Tax, as it discriminates against disabled people.

      It contravened Article 14 taken with Article 8 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

      http://archive.is/PjJmq

    110. Sandy says:

      Watching FM questions over the last few months, mental health issues have been continually raised. Is this the ‘in thing’ for calling a sickie? Nearly every job carries a degree of responsibility & can cause stress & frustration. The latest appears to be teachers, police, NHS staff.
      This raises the question, are they fit for the job? Do they need to be mollycoddled? Yes, there are genuine cases but how many are not? We can all feel depressed at times & if we consult a medic, are we added to the ever increasing statistic of being mentally ill?
      Maybe it’s not more treatment that’s required, it’s the better detection of fraud. That it being tax-payers’ money involved, it’s a criminal offence.
      I am not ‘a proud Scot but***’. I am a proud Scot, NO BUTS.

    111. dadsarmy says:

      For you Dundonians:

      In the coming weeks I’ll be visiting Leven, and Mount Florida and Battlefield. I’m also looking for Dundee neighbourhood recommendations. Send your suggestions to: marianne [dot] taylor [at] heraldandtimes [dot] co [dot] uk

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/18018482.scotlands-insider-guide-gourock/

    112. Sinky says:

      @ admiral says : 14 November, 2019 at 2:20 pm

      More BBC bias by omission over A & E waiting times . They say its the same throughout the UK but don’t give the respective figures.

      Also have comments from Johnston and Corbyn but not Nicola Sturgeon on NHS Scotland.

    113. Sandy says:

      Addendum to my post @ 4.41 pm.

      How many ‘sickies’ called by salaried personnel?

    114. @Gary45%,

      agreed,

      White Helmets are a front for western infiltration,propoganda and misinformation in Syria,

      Le Mesurier was a mercenary though probably still under control of UK secret service,

      who got to him,

      his own for knowing to much and then blame the Russians ?

    115. Colin Alexander says:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-FT3W-rXsA&feature=youtu.be

      “Moving to Scotland” political satirical song by Mitch Benn.

      Warning: contains swear words.

    116. Colin Alexander says:

      Have a look on youtube:

      “Moving to Scotland” Mitch Benn.

      Warning: contains swear words.

      But very funny.

    117. Colin Alexander says:

      If you liked the other video, check this one anaw:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSa-j-EIwc

      A song about Boris Johnson.

    118. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Sinky @ 13:29, 17:13,
      admiral @ 14:20,

      The poor old BBC doesn’t seem to have a very sound grip of the essential facts, or maybe has a selection of them from which to pick-and-choose. But to give them some credit, this lunchtime on the R4 news slot, the interviewer served Matt Hancock with a curve ball by comparing the notably better A&E waiting figures they had for Scotland vs England, and the poor idiot was left struggling like a fish out of water. (While I nearly fell off my chair at the novelty of it all.) He mumbled something about those not being the figures he recognised, then went off at a desperate tangent about the SNP not spending all the money on the NHS that the UKGov had generously provided them with (thereby proving that the SG is an even better administrator, but there we are).

      Then to top it off, an appearance by Lesley Riddoch who used the correct like-for-like comparison figures (even better) which caused an explanation-of-sorts to be appended afterward of how those figures were derived.

      (There must be some kind of fairness criterion now being applied. I wonder why…?!)

    119. callmedave says:

      I saw that guy Ricky Leopard in a political broadcast there in a rather depressing ‘Scottish Labour’ punt at trying to convince us to vote Labour.

      Promises made to the gullible from a Colliery Museum of all things only Labour can improve the ‘country’ he said at the end.

      He meant the UK folks he never said ‘Scotland’ 🙁

    120. Stuart MacKay says:

      First Corby with a tartan scarf and now Ricky in a colliery museum. Who is planning Liebor’s campaign? Boris Johnson?

    121. hackalumpoff says:

      @Coco: 14 November, 2019 at 6:20 pm
      I posted that tune on Off Topic last night,try and keep up.

    122. mumsyhugs says:

      Well I’ve had it with the SNP – just spotted Jeremy cutting a dash with a tartan scarf a la Bay City Rollers so he will be getting my vote after this show of understanding the Scottish psyche. (What a muppet – and an insult. Will he sport a leek in his top pocket when he visits Wales?!)

    123. Dan says:

      May be it was down to the full moon, but I woke up* yesterday and rejoined the SNP!

      *When I say “woke up”, I mean I stopped sleeping, rather than becoming a biology denying roaster that spends my time on a hand loom weaving coconut fibre trousers and stitching together kiwi fruit skins to make a dapper planet saving suede-like shirt, whilst moaning about the various injustices and inequalities we supposedly endure.
      eg. That of my fellow short arse countrymen eh, countryfolk eh, countryentities suffer from in the world of basketball.
      A situation that arises because the hoop is proportionally harder for vertically challenged people sorry, entities to put the ball in than it is for those with more physical altitude.
      Surely if we are striving for equality for all this means tall people need to have height reduction surgery thus equalising the skill required for all to earn pro-basketball level wages.
      Anyway, I digress…

      I rejoined so I could hit the means streets of my locality and go around the doors campaigning again. Have to say over the past couple of days in my rural area I’m picking up a marked difference with people being significantly more receptive to SNP and the Indy cause.
      Presumably the ever extending duration of the clown show emanating from Westminster has really begun to grate on people and they are slowly coming round to considering there are other options.
      Labour Scotchland, with their leader Reflux Langoustine seem about as popular as munching a plate of out of date seafood.
      Even a hardcore LibDem EU Remainer I know is coming around and considering coming over to SNP, and even canvassing too! A process I hope I helped along a tad further by pointing out serial vowel abuser Swineson’s voting record.

    124. Robert Louis says:

      Stand up and take a bow, Krishnan guru-murthy, so-called ‘journalist’ of so-called Channel 4 news. Who knew a so-called ‘journalist’ on television could be so wilfully stupid.

      No seriously, take a bow Krishnan for rank stupidity.

      Tonight on Channel 4 news, Krishnan, in very serious tones happily told people that the NHS is in crisis, by quoting NHS statistics from the NHS IN ENGLAND. He went further in his voyage of stupidity, however, by then saying that all the main political parties were saying they could rescue the ‘failing NHS’ – but yet again, he was meaning ENGLAND only.

      Now, here’s the thing, Krishnan knows that the NHS in England is run separately from the NHS in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland, but so stupid is Channel 4’s Krishnan (a so-called ‘journalist’), that he decided to just ignore those cold hard facts, and merely reference the ENGLISH NHS. Lazy.

      Why is this important? Well firstly, the NHS in Scotland, run by the SNP SCOTTISH government is doing far, far better that that in England, by quite some margin. A smart journalist would hold up the example of SNP-run Scotland, and say why is the NHS in Tory run England doing so much worse? But, no, not for our Krishnan, that would have been too much like real actual f***ing journalism and FACT checking. It would have involved actual work.

      Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the current election is for the Westminster parliament. Westminster ONLY has control over the NHS in England (and at present, temporarily, by proxy for N.Ireland). Health is devolved in Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland, and is a subject for debate to those respective parliaments. In the current Westminster election, what Jeremy Corby or Boris Johnson say about the NHS ONLY APPLIES TO ENGLAND. Mp’s elected to Westminster have no say in the NHS in Wales or Scotland.

      Epic fail by Krishnan Guru-murthy , the so-called ‘journalist’ from Channel 4 ‘news’.

      This kind of utterly shoddy and inexcusably incorrect reporting by the so-called ‘journalists’ in London is EXACTLY the reason why the UK is in a mess. It’s also yet another reason why so many Scots now want an end to this tawdry undemocratic ‘union’ with England.

      It’s not like devolution is something new anymore. No excuse, just rank incompetence and lazy, lazy reporting by somebody who we might have expected to do better.

      So-called ‘journalists’, letting the voters down yet again, and failing to hold politicians to account, during an election. Again.

    125. SilverDarling says:

      @Dr Jim 3.31 pm

      The dice are so loaded in this stinking corrupt union it makes me sick. Politicians should be accountable for all the lies they tell and the media should be to. A rolling fact check is the bare minimum but it is the background narrative we need to watch out for.

      Matt Hancock was challenged on R4 today as to why Scotland’s A& E figures are better but we still get Reporting Scotland headlines saying there are Flu vaccine shortages for school children and then as a whisper …reflecting UK wide shortages….

      Corbyn was bleating again about devolved issues, specifically housing and poverty in Scotland. As if his party played no part in the social engineering of the 50s and 60s that ripped apart communities in Glasgow and has left its legacy in our physical and mental health. No one challenged him. He can go on about 1979 and is given a platform to spout rubbish but why we die sooner or have more addicts is never allowed to be addressed properly.

      I get a visceral reaction to their lies now and I don’t know what I will do if they come knocking at my door!

    126. ScottieDog says:

      Folks
      Looking for an article I read ages ago about how devolution came about.
      I’m pretty sure new labours hand was forced into having a devolution referendum by the EU but can’t remember where I read it,
      Any ideas?

    127. SilverDarling says:

      I should point out that multifactorial poverty is not ‘devolved’ but the implication from Corbyn was that it was the SNP who were responsible for it, not austerity or the hideous policies of the Tories.

      I despise him and this incarnation of Labour all the more because he puts on this facade of caring and social justice when all it is is posturing.protest and ultimately about political point scoring.

    128. Gary45% says:

      I’ve posted this before, but just in case anyone missed it previously, or simply skipped past my usual ramblings.
      Ever wondered how the media control the population?
      You tube “The occupation of the American Mind” narrated by Roger Waters, its approx 120 mins long. It will help you understand how they get away with it.
      You will never hear the UK mainstream radio/TV channels promoting it.
      Please take 120mins of your time and be educated.

    129. mr thms says:

      Start the clock!

      http://www.snp.org/start-the-clock-50-snp-achievements-in-government/

      Nicola Sturgeon reels off 50 SNP achievements..

    130. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Robert Louis @ 20:04,

      C4 News has long been the TV equivalent of the Grauniad, English Establishment wannabe progressive but with a particular blind spot as big as a barn door. These days it’s almost as if they have given up trying to be anything more than hardcore English.

      Yup, we’re a definite part of the UK when the UK forces big changes upon us that we don’t want, but otherwise we somehow don’t exist.

      Media Brigadoonism, you might call it.

    131. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      And on that subject of differential exclusion during a “UK” general election, WGD is on the ball as always:

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/11/14/the-voice-that-must-not-be-heard

    132. Gary45% says:

      oops approx. 1h20mins

    133. chicmac says:

      I will forgive the English determination to ignore Scotland just so long as we, through independence, get the opportunity to return the compliment.

    134. Katie says:

      When will MSM get it right? Its the Scottish National Party….not the Scottish Nationalist (Evil Separatist??) Party!!! Really annoying now!!! (Just heard it on ITV!!)

    135. galamcennalath says:

      Janet Godley strikes again ( on Boris) ….

      https://www.instagram.com/p/B42xHzglqTP/

      He really is someone just made to have the pish taken out if him.

    136. Katie says:

      Sorry… still in rant mode here…. but how on earth do we get rid of the attitude “I always vote labour because my (Auntie/Uncle/Mum/Dad/Great gran twice removed) would turn in their graves if Ivoted any other way??”…. I can say one thing for sure…. if any of those before you saw the political scene now they would be turning in their graves if you DID!!!

    137. Famous15 says:

      If you cannot see a difference between being in the European Union and being in the United Kingdom ,you have no sense of the difference between a golf club and being a victim of a protection racket.

    138. Liz g says:

      Scottie Dog @ 9.92
      I think the article you are looking for is from – Electric Scotland –
      But I don’t know how much truth is in it?

    139. Dr Jim says:

      @ScottieDog

      You are indeed correct that devolution came about because it was one of the conditions of the EU that England create proper devolution as a human rights issue, that’s why the Tories were against it then and still are today, and would dissolve devolution at the drop of a hat if they could find a way to do it

      Labour however saw devolution as an opportunity to own Scotland as their own private feifdom that would Scotland be stupid enough to vote Labour till the end of time

      Also the bonus point for England was *OIL* which was why Tony Blair and Donald Dewar hatched their plan of moving the maritime border from Berwick on Tweed to Arbroath in order to secure that 6.000 square mile area to the east of Scotland that contained OIL which is not British OIL but English OIL

      The legacy of the so called great Donald Dewar has been somewhat shrouded in nice fuzziness because we shouldn’t speak ill of the dead and all that but he was no better than the rest of the grubbing Labour party self aggrandising themselves and I actually knew him and he was a Bastirt like the rest of them in total league with the Daily Record to write down every word he said

      There are people in Scotland who still haven’t heard of the McCrone report which details that very theft of ocean and OIL

    140. Dan says:

      @ Katie at 10:16 pm

      RE. Getting names right. Well it is annoying and even our own SNP elected persons occasionally fall into the trap of using wrong terminology.
      However, all the other parties hardly conform to their actual given names.
      EG.
      Liberal Democrats are neither particularity liberal or democratic.
      Conservative party not really doing a good job for businesses or social stability and continuity as they create ongoing carnage.
      Labour, well where to start…

      I just rebuke the whole nationalist thing with either highlighting the difference between ethnic and civic nationalism, the latter of which better identifies the YES movement.
      I also state I am not a natural nationalist, I’m actually an anti-corruptionist but the only practical way to engineer a fix for that endemic issue within the UK context is through avenues which involve using the best political tool we have to fix that problem, which in Scotland is supporting the SNP with a view to ending the union.
      After that occurs it will hopefully facilitate the ability of the electorates of their respective Kingdoms to begin to build better systems rather than us all be tied to the current shitfest with its inherent inbuilt democratic deficit.

      Yesterday I was chatting to a person with a UKIP sticker on their car, but also noticed they were a republican…
      Hmm, that was an easy opening to highlight there may be a far greater chance of achieving their desired republic in an independent Scotland. The seed was duly planted and I left on good terms.

    141. jfngw says:

      @mumsyhug

      Ah Corbyn and the Bay City Rollers (about the right age for him) and his ‘tartan’ scarf.

      Well we sang shang-a-la as we ran from the clans
      Doin’ I huvnie a scoobie do I
      We were all in the news
      With our lying views
      Surely our vote cannot die

    142. jfngw says:

      I’m not really watching any election coverage, what’s the point. They are currently at the bidding war stage, promising spending they have no intention of meeting once in power.

      I’m voting for independence, the rest is just background music, bread and circuses. If we don’t get independence soon, will the last person to leave Scotland turn out the lights (I knew that Sun headline would be useful someday).

    143. manandboy says:

      So, The Propaganda War continues. The Battle for ‘the hearts and minds’ of the British voter is ongoing. To the Victor’s the spoils. For the English Establishment this means power and control of both the political and economic control of the ‘mini-empire’, the UK.
      Scotland is an indispensable component of this Empire, due to its vast natural resources, which effectively funds and underwrites the day to day functioning of England.

      Boris Johnson PM, is essentially a puppet of the Establishment, pure and simple. The model of an upright and ‘British’ Prime Minister has been abandoned. A new populist right-wing, bumbling, socially inarticulate character, has been put in place to entertain the voters.

      British politics has become a contest between stand-up comedians, but with deadly intent.

      Scotland has only one escape route.

      Independence.

      If you value your life, vote SNP.

      This is serious.

    144. manandboy says:

      BREXIT

      We are but microbes, living on a molusk, attached to a whale which swims in the ocean, which is 70% of the planet, which is a speck of dust in the Milky Way, a galaxy among billions, beyond which more galaxies exist.

      Perspective.

      Brexit necessitates perspective.

      Vote SNP

    145. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi ScottieDog at 9:02 pm.

      You typed,
      “Folks
      Looking for an article I read ages ago about how devolution came about.
      I’m pretty sure new labours hand was forced into having a devolution referendum by the EU but can’t remember where I read it,
      Any ideas?”

      Someone up above mentioned this…
      “Tony Blair, who had had no intention of doing anything about devolution, but was now forced to take action, whether he liked it or not. The lack of serious political opposition to the devolution legislation may seem surprising, but it merely reflects the fact that all the party leaderships at Westminster knew the background and were aware that it was an obligation that could not be avoided.”

      https://www.electricscotland.com/independence/uncommittee.htm

    146. chicmac says:

      BDTT
      James Wilkie, who was one of the prime movers in the ‘Scotland UN’ project, sadly died this week.

      At the time an issue raised in the Council of Europe by ‘Scotland UN’ was aided by a de facto scenario where proposed new EU applicants, mostly of an Eastern European variety, were being required to make certain guarantees re devolution and autonomy in the name of democracy.

      This was,understandably, met with some objections from applicants based on existing anomalies within the EU, like the UK’s position on devolution.

      That, combined with ‘Scotland UN’s’ already on going supplication did. IMO, put a great deal of pressure on Blair to yield on the issue of devolution.

    147. Breeks says:

      If this isn’t a spoof, it has to the most toe curling, cringeworthy piece of Electoral Broadcasting since Field Marshal Ruth Davidson interviewed Theresa May in a woodland clearing somewhere near Aberdeen.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1194320833977733123

      What’s utterly, utterly insane with bells on, is that this smarmy lying fuckblob is still odds on favourite to win. Seriously England. Wake the fuck up. This is a whole different league of national embarrassment than fat drunken yobo’s throwing chairs and beer bottles at foreign policemen. The rest of the world is gonna rip the piss out you for ever.

      And if this isn’t a spoof, UK Prime Minister “I-build-model-buses-Boris” doesn’t even know the words to the Wheels of the Bus. Even the Clangers can sing the words to the Wheels of the Bus… and they’re made of wool.

      https://mobile.twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1194990910129541121

      Hmmm… can somebody please physically pinch my big toe? Maybe I’ve been hit by a lorry or something, and I’m lying in intensive care in a coma, and what I think is reality is just a morphine induced but stunningly lifelike hallucination which Bobby Ewing would be proud of.

      This shit is just too preposterous to be real.

    148. Skintybroko says:

      Good wins for SNP in Rosyth and Dunfermline Central Council elections last night despite a low turnout – Lib Dem’s and Conservatives run them close. – what are the voters thinking, these parties have done nothing locally except winge and snipe- labour beaten into fourth place.

    149. Mountain shadow says:

      Huge remain victories the council by elections.

      SNP winning in Scotland.
      Plaid winning in Wales.
      Libs winning in England.

    150. heraldnomore says:

      Goodness, Lesley Riddoch allowed on GMS – is the worm turning?

    151. Sinky says:

      Worm turning ? Not on BBC GMS at 7.50 am where typical “balance” on piece about PPBs very pro Labour and SNP made to sound ridiculous.

    152. Gary45% says:

      Sinky@7.59
      Totally agree, stuck GM Shortbread on for the first time in months, and heard the piece. Switched off again,
      Garbage Radio.

    153. Ottomanboi says:

      What has brexit to do with Scottish independence?
      Surely independence is a stand alone needing no other context than the universal right of a people to self-determination and sovereignty?

    154. HandandShrimp says:

      The by election results last night must make for scary reading for Labour. The Lib Dem success in England might also be worrisome for Tories in strong remain areas. SNP coming in around the 40%+ to take the seats in Scotland seem to bear out the current polls. Winning seats from the opposition so far into a lengthy term in office is no mean feat. All this despite some desperate media and social media politicking by Tory/SiU activists. On that, thought Sawar’s activity yesterday has to take the biscuit on tasteless election campaigning (who still knew he was an MSP).

    155. Effijy says:

      Plea to Nicola,

      Last week a Tory MP in parliament asked Bojo the Clown what he was going to do about SNP NHS
      not hitting all their Targets.

      As rehearsed Bojo advises that he may take Health away from Holyrood?

      Both failed to say we greatly out perform Tory NHS.

      Now the Tory A & E targets are the worst ever on record
      Can Nicola advise that in order to save lives she is working to take NHS responsibility away
      From the incompetent clutches of the Tories.

      GRFU.

    156. @hackalumpoff

      thanks for the links,

      Norwegian wealth fund blacklists G4S shares over human rights concerns http://archive.md/1qzDI

      English company G4S complicit in the exploitation of immigrant workers throughout the world,

      wonder if G4S has any connection with the transportation of immigrants to UK,

      other companies on Norwegian wealth fund blacklist,

      BAE Systems, Boeing,Serco and British America Tobacco.

    157. Colin Alexander says:

      Brian Doonthetoon
      chicmac

      You mention political challenges at the Council of Europe.

      The UK’s position that A50 was triggered in accordance with the UK constitution was not challenged at the Council of Europe.

      Surely, “A50 being decided in accordance with the member state’s Constitution (the UK’s)” was such a grey area it should have been challenged.

      Nobody challenged the UK constitution on lawful triggering of A50 from the perspective of Scotland’s sovereignty or “equal partners” or parliamentary sovereignty being an English tradition (MacCormick v Lord Advocate (1953 SC 396)).

      Lord Steyn in the House of Lords (in Jackson v Attorney General) said: “Nevertheless, the supremacy of Parliament is still the general principle of our constitution. It is a construct of THE common law”.

      “THE” suggests one common law. But, there are TWO common law bases: Scots Law and English Law.

      But that begs the question: from whom does Parliament obtain its supremacy?

      The “UK Constitution” says the Sovereign in Parliament gives UK Parliament its supremacy. That follows from English law.

      But, as the Cherry case highlighted, we are in a Union of two countries with two different legal systems. What does Scotland’s legal system say: the people are sovereign; there is no “sovereign” monarch. (Claim of Right 1689).

      So, that then begs the question: If the people in Scotland are asked their decision, and they are sovereign (in Scotland): Can that decision then be overruled by UK Parliament who asserts sovereign power from a monarch who is NOT sovereign, but is herself subservient to the sovereign people of Scotland?

      That question of sovereignty remains pertinent beyond Brexit, as right now, we are told by the UK’s (mainly England’s) parliamentarians that it’s for them to decide if Scotland can hold an indyref, even when the people of Scotland have voted for one.

    158. galamcennalath says:

      Scotgoespop average of last 5 Yougov subsamples …

      SNP 44.2%
      Conservatives 23.0%
      Labour 12.6%
      Liberal Democrats 11.8%
      Brexit Party 4.6%
      Greens 3.4%

      Electoral calculus

      SNP 46 up 11
      Con 8 down 5
      LibDem 4 no change
      Lab 1 down 6

      Looking good, but it’s the actual vote which counts!

    159. Iain mhor says:

      Nice to check the thread in the morning before 9:30am.
      There’s usually 10-12 hours of uninterrupted browsing, before the usual logs in and I have to start scrolling…
      Or go through old back catalogues.
      As the NHS will be front and centre during election campaigns, here’s a comprehensive oldie from 2014 (It won’t be that out of date) I don’t know of a more current, list.

      Compilation of Parliamentary Financial Links to Private Healthcare
      http://bit.ly/2XibzWD

    160. jfngw says:

      BBC Scotland going hard on SNP bad Scottish NHS stories, they were given their cue from Boris Johnson and his Tory in Scotland. Not sure it’s a winning formula because we can all see what a state NHS in England and Wales is under unionist control.

      Expect the Scotland bad propaganda to increase, yesterday we had one of their political correspondents effectively retweet the truncated Labour quote from Nicola Sturgeon rather than what she actually said, we see you Mr Eardley.

      Now we have Sarah Smith describing how difficult it would be for Scotland to join the EU. I suspect none of the commentators who said it would be easy would have be consulted. The bad news for this BBC attack line is I don’t care if we are full members, there are numerous options for Scotland when independent that will give us trade with the EU, all of them better than what is currently on offer by remaining as England’s colony.

    161. Heart of Galloway says:

      Tuned into GMS at 8.30 – just in time for another classic dose of Scottish cringe.

      Shortbread’s guest was Michael Crick who proceeded to regale us on how the Tories were imposing candidates on constituency associations somewhere in the English shires.

      Nearing the end the interviewer remembered what country she was in.

      – “Is there anything that’s leapt out at you from the election in Scotland?”

      – “No, not particularly.”

      And that was it for Scotland, you’ll have had yer tea.

      I have no problem with our *ahem* national broadcaster including analysis of the English situation.

      And I consider Michael Crick to be one of the more astute political commentators.

      But in which other country in the world would this colonial, deferential shit be tolerated?

    162. Dr Jim says:

      Any country can join the EU and they can leave it too but any country can’t join the UK and those in it aren’t allowed to leave
      I’m not sure if I can remember when England was nominated voted upon and became the title holder and owner of UK

    163. Fireproofjim says:

      Colin Alexander @9.25
      Nice concise analysis of the sovereignty of the Scottish people. Well done.

    164. gus1940 says:

      The BBC are keeping very quiet about the Boris car crash interview with Naga on this morning’s Breakfast. A mumbling shambles.

      It’s as if it never happened.

    165. Republicofscotland says:

      Well Boris Johnson has made noises of taking over the NHS in Scotland. However recent reports show that NHS England has hit an all time low in treating patients. Maybe Johnson should look closer to home and see the state of England’s crumbling NHS services before mouthing off about Scotland’s fine NHS.

    166. Republicofscotland says:

      Meanwhile Len McCluskey says.

      The Unite union leader, and Labour ally, said the party would “respect the 2016 referendum”.

      “Labour is not a Remain party” Len added.

    167. callmedave says:

      Tuned in while in the car to ‘Boris answers questions’ from callers on radio 5.

      Only got 20 minutes of it but best described as hyperbole and circumlocution and English jam tomorrow. He must have spent another 2 or 3 £Bn before I got to where I was going. 🙂

      ————————————————————–
      PS:
      Heard shortbread’s election expert analysis from Michael Crick too early on. What a maroon! Wrong country pal missed the whole point.

      Muttered something, err…em? Oh Yes!… about the SNP returning even more MPs to WM in his final sentence through gritted teeth.

      🙂

    168. kapelmeister says:

      As well as the encouraging SNP wins in Rosyth and Dunfermline there was a very good win for Plaid in Neath. They took a council seat from Labour with a 23% increase in the Plaid vote and a 23% drop in the Labour vote.

    169. Stuart MacKay says:

      The Conservatives head mole in the BBC, Laura Kuenssberg, now freezes out the SNP and the FibDems by only referring to the “main parties”

      General election 2019: So where do main parties stand on immigration?
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50427894

      How convenient. I guess being able to count to more than 2 is simply too difficult.

    170. kapelmeister says:

      The SNP well ahead in 1st preference votes in the Inverness Central by-election.

    171. What kind of equall partnership is it when one of them needs to ask the other ones permission to hold a ref., vote is Scotland a captive country ??? I still do not know if we need their permission or not I have read various posts saying we do not but I have not heard any top SNP msps saying that we do or not ??? Surely this needs to be clarified so that people know the truth about this matter

    172. galamcennalath says:

      Choose sanity, choose justice, choose independence!

    173. kapelmeister says:

      The Labour candidate is the first to drop out after stage 1 in the Inverness Central by-election. A huge drop in the Labour vote from 2017. Labour took one of the ward seats back then.

    174. Colin Alexander says:

      Did anyone pick up on Stu’s Twitter yesterday where he stated his belief that Indyref2 isnae gonnae happen before 2021?

      If anyone thinks he’s wrong, please explain how (apart from the obvious answer of: “Nicola says there will”).

    175. Colin Alexander says:

      Blair Paterson

      Similarly, when unelected Lords can trash the Continuity Bill passed by the Scottish Parliament: the Scottish Parliament democratically elected to represent the will of the sovereign people of Scotland:

      Why no legal challenge on the basis of unelected British Lords lording it over democratically elected representatives of the sovereign people of Scotland, with the Lords asserting sovereignty over us based on the monarch’s asserted sovereignty?

      Instead the Scot Govt challenge was made on devolution grounds. When, by it’s very nature, devolution is created to be subservient, reliant on non-legally binding conventions such as Sewel.

    176. ScotsRenewables says:

      I certainly think Nicola will do everything in her power to make an independence referendum happen next year, as she has put her political career on the line by promising it.

    177. jfngw says:

      When BBC journalists refer to the major parties and infer it is only Labour and Conservatives they embed the fact that this is in fact the English major parties and they are in effect the broadcaster for England. It’s an organisation (or corporation) that needs removed from Scotland day one after an independence vote.

      Difficult of course as the final transmission coding point is in England (for everything, Freeview, Freesat, internet, they know how to keep control).

    178. kapelmeister says:

      Emma Roddick wins in Inverness Central to make it a hat trick of victories for the SNP.

    179. HYUFD says:

      Galamcennalath SNP still projected to be clearly below the 56 seats they got in 2015 then

    180. Heart of Galloway says:

      kapelmeister@11.45am.

      Aye, I’ve said elsewhere that Corbyn’s prevarication on IndyRef2, Remain/Leave/EURef2 and now, unforgivably, on immigration will utterly cripple Labour’s election effort.

      The Scottish and Welsh by-election results may just be straws in the wind but their significance should not be underestimated.

      Despite very different geographical locations, Labour’s vote collapsed across the board in the middle of a general election campaign.

      The dynamics could of course change – but recent polling also suggests a wholescale shrinkage in Labour’s ratings north and south of the Tweed.

      Combined, these factors are ill omens for Labour and point to about to a potentially catastrophic defeat, the blame for which, if it transpires, will rest entirely at their own door.

      Labour, rightly, has already reaped a bitter harvest from their Better Together love-in with the Tories.

      And their latest zinger – the cynical doctoring of Nicola Sturgeon’s statement on the price of SNP support for a minority Corbyn administration – simply shows they have learned precisely nothing in the utterly changed, post-September 18 2014 political landscape.

      With their unionist adherents defecting to the Tories and their pro-Indy voters allying with the SNP, Labour in Scotland, North British branch, could be about disappear down the plug hole of history.

      And they will have only themselves to blame.

    181. Dr Jim says:

      Before the UK was allowed to join the EU the EU made it a condition that devolution of powers to the other countries of the UK was a mandatory human rights issue or it wouldn’t admit the UK to the EU as a member

      The UK post Brexit will attempt to roll all of that back and possibly revoke the whole idea devolution if it can, the problem for the UK in that scenario will be that the EU has the power of the trading block which is now many times bigger than it was when it demanded the UK behave like human beings in order to join the EU

      Very shortly the First Minister will officially demand the transfer of powers document to hold an agreed Independence referendum (normally referred to as section 30 order) this order is not a permission slip from the UK government, it’s an agreement to transfer and abide by the conditions therein

      The UK government will more than likely comply with this demand, for NOT to do so risks national and international court action and condemnation from both the EU and UN of the UK as a signatory to the UN conventions on human rights to self determination, plus the UK needs to trade and do business with these people and it’s far from being in the UKs interests to upset the EU even more than they already have

      We’ve seen the power of the EU as it stood squarely in defence of Ireland and it’s rights, and we’ve seen the result of EU pressure because of it, resulting in Northern Ireland still being in the EU and ready to choose its own destiny should it so decide (Boris Johnson and the UK lost)

      If as I think is likely the EU apply the same pressure in defence of Scotland, using trade as the bargaining tool, the First Ministers plan, which I have no doubt she and the EU have been working on for some time, will come to fruition

      The UK will make all the relevant noises and threats but as their position on Northern Ireland crumbled their position on Scotland is likely to crumble also

      England must do commerce or die, said Lord Cornwallis, post America kicking the British out of America

      One hopes the same thing applies here

    182. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim I have not seen the UN do much complaining at Spain for blocking a Catalan referendum or at China for restricting freedoms in Hong Kong. Northern Ireland also borders another EU nation ie the Republic of Ireland, hence the UK agreed the NI backstop for a Deal with the EU, the EU do not require a Scottish backstop as Scotland only borders England

    183. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      SNP predicted to take less than 95% of the seats in Scotland, is that the best you’ve got. But I predict they will take a higher percentage of the seats they stand in than the Conservatives, Labour and LibDem’s combined. If they do it looks like a mandate to me (well the fourth in a row to be precise).

      On another subject, how is it when spot QT on the BBC I immediately start humming that Bob Marley Gammon song (could be Jamming but it’s in my head now).

    184. Dr Jim says:

      Jeremy Corbyn is promising all the things to the UK that the SNP have and already are doing in Scotland at this moment but in order for Jeremy Corbyn to achieve these things he promises he says he’ll have to be still in government in 2030 and that presupposes he’s going to win this General election and the following three General elections to do it

      If the SNP as a devolved government in Scotland is able at this time to do these things within their limited powers why are the Labour party in Wales not able to do the same things

      Jeremy Corbyn by just repeating SNP vote winning policies but not applying them where he is in government is looking a proper Numpty and cementing the fact that the SNP are better at governing without having to be elected to Prime Minister

    185. callmedave says:

      @HYUFD

      Bit of sour gr@p*s there that 56 was a ‘once in a life time opportunity’ maybe a record even . How would 46 to 52 suit you? 🙂

    186. Effijy says:

      Absolutely incredible Bojo the Clown performance on BBC Breakfast.

      He lied about the proportion of EU immigration,

      The number of knives taken off London Streets,

      He Lied about the London murder rate,

      and he lied about the Garden Bridge project being the disaster that he managed.

      How strange a long term serial liar does nothing but lie when interviewed.

      And England want this lying idiot to rule over them?

      Not for Scotland thank you.

      The wheels are off that Tory bus up here forever!

    187. Dr Jim says:

      The Yoon troll appears and wants us to compare Hong Kong and Catalonia, neither of which are countries, to Scotland which is was and always will be, a country

      Keep your England superiority your human rights abuses your racism your xenophobia your imposed sectarianism and your Empire partition tactics and shove them up your arrogant Arse

    188. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      The situation you compare are not similar, Scotland is an actual country and its people sovereign (even voted so at Westminster, although that’s actually irrelevant as they are declared so in 1320).

      The people of Scotland have elected a majority of representative that have voted for a referendum, Westminster has no right to refuse it.

      As for the EU and UN, international politics is a complex affair and what is right and wrong does not take top priority. It’s about influence and the advantage each country sees in supporting a position. So Westminster may have the support of the current US president as he sees an advantage in it, I suspect the EU may taker the opposite view.

    189. Bill McLean says:

      Don’t post often now that i’ve had to move south but i’d like to congratulate Dr Jim at 1.36pm for his forensic disection of the idiot from the “master race” who in typically superior/exceptionalist fashion knows very little about reality. How did these people ever maintain their hold over so many little countries? Well, we know how!!!!

    190. Bill McLean says:

      Sorry! Meant to include “jfngw” in my comment at 1.44!

    191. Capella says:

      The BBC are not interviewing the “main” parties in the UK. The SNP are the party of government in Scotland which is the other signatory to the Treaty of Union in the UK.

      They are interviewing the Conservative and Labour Parties, rigorously fact checking the Labour Party election promises and soft balling the Tory Party allowing them to make election broadcasts disguised as news.

      Is this legal?

      https://twitter.com/MSM_Monitor/status/1191850346026545152?s=20

    192. Ian Brotherhood says:

      For those who haven’t yet seen Tam Jardine’s splendid take-down of Mundell on Twitter, I’ve transcribed the text and posted it here, with Tam’s permission:

      https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/will-you-stay-up-for-fluffy/

    193. Capella says:

      Excellent article from Prof John Robertson skewering today’s episode in the BBC war on Scotland. NHS Scotland is clearly in the front line even though it is far better than any other NHS in the UK.

      https://talkingupscotlandtwo.com/2019/11/15/bbc-scotlands-proxy-war-against-the-snp-is-now-in-election-mode-and-the-health-secretary-is-first-in-line/

    194. TheBuchanLoony says:

      O/T The UK’s broadcasting regulator OFCOM is powerless to stop blatant political propaganda being transmitted…

      Dear ****

      Thank you for your complaint about STV’s intention to broadcast “The Leader’s Debate”.

      Ofcom does not determine the line-up or format of any leaders’ debates. These are editorial matters for the broadcasters, who must comply with our rules on due impartiality.

      AS A POST-TRANSMISSION REGULATOR, WE CANNOT CONSIDER A COMPLAINT ABOUT A PROGRAMME THAT HAS NOT YET GONE TO AIR.
      (my capitals)

      I hope this clarifies our position.

      Yours sincerely

      Ofcom Standards Team

      :: Standards and Audience Protection
      Content Standards, Licensing & Enforcement
      Content and Media Policy
      OfcomStandardsTeam [at] ofcom [dot] org [dot] uk

    195. Terry callachan says:

      Sarah Smith is just practicing
      For when she becomes a Labour MP

      The question is
      Will it be in Scotland

      Or England

    196. Gary45% says:

      Ian Brotherhood@2.01
      Cheers for that. Any chance Establishment TV will show the Fluffmeister’s work ethic?? NO CHANCE.

    197. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gary45% –

      Cheers, but all thanks go to Tam for having the wit and patience to do it in the first place.

      It’s the sort of thing that any decent journalist would’ve flagged-up years ago. Sadly, it’s no surprise that they don’t bother their arses.

    198. donnywho says:

      So the rev is taking a week off!

      To be honest i was wondering about the slow down in postings. was a tad worried!

      But to be honest he needs the time off and ironicly the best time seems to be in the middle of this Election.

      The need for debunking and countering the Medias lies seems to be rather redundent at this moment.

      The lies and media compliance, the spin and deliberate ommissions are so obvious that they fall apart before the “story is told”.

      The Rev could be writing ten articles a day in this target rich environment and they would all be debunked before he pressed SEND.

      So have a good week off the liars are doing your job for you, as Napoleon said, never interupt your enemy whilst he is making a mistake. I am on that subject enjoying Boris’s campaining, a man who cannot walk with kings, nor had the common touch!

    199. galamcennalath says:

      Another lie on the side of a bus …. “Back Boris and vote Conservative to… Get Brexit Done.”

      Brexit is years away from being done. If he get his WAB through WM then it a transition period of little change. How long will it last? Boris is telling everyone, a year. Has anyone ever done a Trade Agreement in a year? Nope. If the UK struggles with a basic WA, imagine how long a TA will take!

      Then there’s Trade Agreements to replace the dozens which the EU has, but the UK needs to replace.

      How long does Boris plan yo be around in politics for? Decades?

    200. Gary45% says:

      Even if “Mr Bungles Johnson” had “Breakfast means Breakfast” on the side of the bus, you would lose your appetite.

    201. Colin Alexander says:

      Tactical voting wheel for Scotland, can found here:

      http://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJXOD0MXYAAwOGt.jpg:large

    202. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 15:37,

      There is no need whatever for “tactical voting” in Scotland, Lord Hee Haw.

      Unless you’re a desperate Unionist, that is. QED

    203. callmedave says:

      All Tories who won in 2017 in Scotland will stand in the GE says Tory list of candidates??

      Revs twitter.

      But…but! Ross!

      ———————————————————
      PS:

      BT and Talk Talk shares plunge because they believe Jeremy…Eh!

    204. Nana says:

      Read and share

      The Indisputable Thievery of the UK Union!

      https://indyref2.space/forum/topic/a-must-read-and-share/

    205. jfngw says:

      Anybody else think the salivating going on at the death of a child by the Scottish MSM is abhorrent. They have no interest in the child, he/she is merely a propaganda tool to try and reduce the SNP vote, strangely coming to the fore during the election campaign.

      Never trust a journalist, their caring demeanour is a facade, what they want is a story to further their career, the juicier the better. Watch as they try and make a person break down by using a question they know will cause this, the camera will already be in a position to catch the tears in close up. Once you have served your purpose their concern will melt away, never to cross their minds again (unless it wins them a BAFTA, then you will see the tearful speech of how they were touched by events).

    206. jfngw says:

      Where is the SNP taking ITV to court, Scottish or English courts. If in Scotland and they win then I can’t see how this head to head can take place as the only way to block it from Scotland is to remove it from satellite, cable, internet, North of England Freeview where Scots are tuned to transmitters in England.

      I would assume this would also be the case with Sky as they have even less flexibility in their transmission outlets.

    207. callmedave says:

      O/T

      Selby V Higgins Snooker. (Computer stream)

      Selby on a good break “He’s playing great” say commentators!

      Higgins winning at the moment 2-1
      Commentators “Selby not himself today”…. “Out of sorts”
      Hmmm! “Uncharacteristic errors from Selby”

      🙁 So it goes.

    208. callmedave says:

      @jfngw

      I heard London High Court. Might be wrong.

    209. dadsarmy says:

      One did oneder. “As there’s no point commenting on this mad shitshow of an election, I’ve given myself my first week off in eight years and written something about videogames instead, for that small Scottish politics/ZX Spectrum crossover audience:

      Liar liar pants on fire, errr, oh, is that true?

      How about a new thread please, just titled “Up Yours”?

      TIA, HAND, IANAL, TTFN

    210. Dr Jim says:

      The British Irish council sits today as we speak with all the relevant people to Ireland and Scotland in attendance discussing the important issues of our countries but the UK news media don’t even mention it because they’re more interested in reporting American gossip about a President who’s about to buy England or be thrown out of office

      Y’see how they impose on us what we’re supposed to be interested in

    211. dadsarmy says:

      @jfngw
      It’s totally shocking, BUT we can’t say that lest we be accused of “the cult” knee-jerk defending Freeman. But I think the normal non-political person can work it out for themselves, specially those who are parents. My line is to emphasise that there is an independent inquiry and we should wait and see what it concludes.

    212. dadsarmy says:

      A link someone posted in The National:

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50419130

      “Australia and others ask for Brexit trade compensation”

      They’re already losing out because of the threat of Brexit let alone the happening of it, and they’re not happy. That;s also India, NZ, US – and they’ll be doing their stuff at the WTO.

      Did someone say the UK is fucked?

    213. jfngw says:

      Remember if you want to give money to charity, give it directly not through a go-between that may decide to give your money to a charity you don’t support.

    214. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Nana @ 15:54,

      A great link that, thanks. I may quibble slightly about some of the details of presentation, but it’s a thoroughly impressive piece of work that deserves to get maximal publicity.

      A real eye-opener and must-read.

    215. galamcennalath says:

      dadsarmy says:

      Did someone say the UK is fucked?

      Loads of people … it’s just that a lot of others don’t seem to believe them!

      Brexit is a modern day Pandora’s Box … all sorts of shit waiting to escape and cause problems.

      The consequences will be enormous, and it’s all BAD for ordinary folks.

      I saw somewhere Brazil says the proposed arrangements for NI are unfair and contravene WTO rules. They intent to take action.

    216. Dr Jim says:

      As the Labour vote in Scotland drops like a stone the remaining Unionists can’t seem to decide who they’ll hitch their sectarian loyalist wagon too, will it be the poor millionaire North east fishermen Tories or the pretendy caring Liberal Democrat Tories who’s position is to refuse Scotland a vote on anything

      English Scots for YES this looks like work for you again

      Not easy

    217. ScottieDog says:

      Folks
      Thanks for all the replies wrt labours obligation to grant devolution..
      Reposting the link here..
      https://www.electricscotland.com/independence/uncommittee.htm

    218. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      dadsarmy @ 16:21,

      Well, of course we should wait to get the results of any inquiry. Obvious, you would think.

      But that wouldn’t suit the electoral agenda, would it?

      This weaponising of everything under the sun within a cynical mitigation hell is an appalling business, because its result is completely counterproductive, not only in terms of the actual issue itself, but increasingly also IMO impacting negatively on the reputation of the professional political ambulance-chasers.

      It’s not as though this persistent propaganda war they are waging is having any visible success for them, is it? One might conclude the diametric opposite, that the only way to end this confected misery and return to some kind of normality is to become independent.

      I just had another example this very day of someone commenting unprompted that in their own personal experience or of that of their nearest-and-dearest, that the quality of care they receive from the SNHS in time of need is second to none, in stark contrast to the political shit-stirrers and their heavy media propaganda.

    219. dadsarmy says:

      @Dr Jim
      From this article it’s even more confusing for previous / current NO voters, a quote for instance a NO / Remain with an SNP councillor wife: “I have a vote in this coming election, but I don’t know how I’m going to use it, because it’s really confusing,” he says. “And whatever traditional party you might have voted for in the past, they seem to be standing for something different now …” ”

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/hQjrjYaOMh/election-2019-battleground-aberdeenshire

      This is where I keep banging the drum for complete honesty, though he says “I’m quite happy to admit I’m a unionist and we have to think incredibly seriously, particularly now we’ve had the experience of Brexit, do we really want to inflict this on the country at this particular moment?”

      I like articles like that, they make you think and explore. Personally I think up to 99% of the voters in Scotland could vote YES, with the right incentive, the right argument.

      For all those that voted for the status quo in 2014, the- status – quo – just – does – not – exist – any – longer.

      So what sort of change do you want, one that’s out of control, or one we in Scotland CAN control?

    220. frogesque says:

      A week with nothing new.

      Rev no well, making a point or just pissed off?

    221. HYUFD says:

      Jfngw Tories, Labour and LDs and Brexit Party on 52% combined on the above Scottish poll average projection,SNP on 44%

    222. HYUFD says:

      Dadsarmy Australia have confirmed a trade deal will be signed with the UK as soon as the transition period ends, that will resolve the current problems

      https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/937395/Brexit-News-uk-eu-transition-trade-deal-australia-2021

    223. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 17:42,

      Well, instead of all this shady background double-dealing, they should all honestly combine into a single UKOK Party, stand on that ticket and see how well they do.

      And pigs might fly.

      So much for your irrelevant idiot arithmetic.

    224. Capella says:

      @ frogesque – Stu has tweeted that he is taking the week off as the news is mostly drivel. He deserves a break. Besides, we are all getting so sharp at calling out media bias.

    225. SilverDarling says:

      @frogesque 5.26 pm

      He’s having a week off as it is soul destroying keeping up with politics the state it is just now. He is still active on Twitter.

    226. SilverDarling says:

      @ Capella

      Beat me too it!

    227. SilverDarling says:

      *to it. Duh…

    228. dadsarmy says:

      @HIDUF
      Are you for real? Quoting the Express and DT – and expecting to be taken seriously?

      Will it be the DM next …

    229. Capella says:

      @ Silver Darling – he can’t resist Twitter. It’s the news where we are, if you choose who to follow carefully. 🙂

    230. Effijy says:

      Brazil hopes to start trade talks with Bojo the Clown.
      They are going give Little Britain a better deal on hoods
      Than the do currently with the 28 EU nations as they
      Don’t like massive deals in the worlds biggest trading market.

      Brazilian Champagne, Edam, Olives, Oranges, Tomatoes, etc
      All fresh and no impact on the environment after sailing 4,000 miles?

      Never forget Papua New Guinie also want a special deal.
      What do they have 10,000 miles away ?

    231. Dr Jim says:

      Two out of every three British soldiers during the time of the British Raj had syphilis because the British army brought in 80 prostitutes for every 1000 men in British barracks, and when those women were (used up) I couldn’t think of a more disgusting term, they were locked up for three months for treatment in a jail facility then sent right back to the barracks they came from to begin work all over again

      Such was the poverty inflicted upon the Indians at that time that women were used in this way

      The reason I know this is because Billy Connolly’s three or four times grandmother was Indian and was married to his three or four times soldier grandfather at around the age of 13 or 14, the records are unclear because she had to be baptised Christian before she was allowed to marry and her age was left blank from the records

      In itself this may be an interesting insight into Billy Connolly’s ancestry but what’s really important about it is this was how the British treated India and people should be shocked, but this is how the British have treated every country they held dominion over, so when would be political trolls appear on WOS to inform Scots how to run our country or what we should be doing, we already know, and everything these British trolls say is the reason why Scotland should have no political connections with a country whose foreign policies have always included……. shit like that!

      5th richest economy? ruled the world? British Empire? respected? Yeah everybody loves you

      Makes you wonder why we ever gave them the penicillin, although we might not have had Billy Connolly if we didn’t so that would have been a tragedy

    232. HYUFD says:

      Robert J Sutherland They won’t because they have ideological differences but they are united in backing the Union against the SNP push for independence

    233. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim India has been independent for 70 years, the age of Empire whatever its rights and wrongs was taken part in by most nations France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Russia, Japan etc indeed the US in the Philippines too. Scots of course played a huge part in running the British Empire as generals, administrators, financiers, engineers etc

    234. Liz g says:

      Hope you have a nice Holiday Rev …

      No wonder he thinks it’s a good time to have a break, the media going into overdrive all day with Corbins free internet promise like it’s a thing…
      How far into his 80s would Corbin be to see this through????
      It’s so much brain dead stuff that it’s actually painful to listen to adults all over the air waves trying to speak intelligently about it…
      So far as I can tell there’s been not a word about the much more realistic and achievable alternative plan of ending the TV Licence.
      Make the TV free would be a vote winner, except they’d actually have to do it!!!
      But no they don’t promise that… Wonder Why??

    235. Dr Jim says:

      The age of Empire mentality is still here and you demonstrate it every single time

    236. callmedave says:

      @HYUFD

      Too late we do have history books, tv and the internet in Scotland we know all that stuff.

      I even read Scotland ceased operations in the slave trade over 50 years before the official date.

      I even read that the WM parties often have only 35%.ish of the GE vote and can form a government too.

    237. callmedave says:

      O/T

      Footie: & Snooker interlude

      Scotland V Greece U21’s 0-0 half-time.

      For those who might want to: BBC Scotland TV or computer on.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/50332117.

      Higgins into the semi final Irish Open beat Selby earlier.

    238. galamcennalath says:

      callmedave says:

      WM parties often have only 35%.ish of the GE vote and can form a government too.

      WM and first past the post voting are a disgrace. No where else would that be considered a democracy.

      The SNP are on 44% according to the polls. With any luck they will get that or better on the day.

      The last time a UK party got over 44% in a GE and formed a government was Heath in 1970.

      Johnson would give his left bollock to get 44%. Maybe both.

      BritNats like to confuse SNP voting with Indy voting. Recent polling shows that around a third of Labour voters are YES. The figures for Con and LibDem are less, single figures. So that 44% can’t be taken as YES support. Party politics can’t be extrapolated.

    239. HYUFD says:

      CallmeDave Even as late 1817 32% of slaves in Jamaica were owned by Scots

      https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/history-of-slavery/scotland-and-slavery/

    240. @HYUFD

      Brutish Empire is listed as the most evil empire ever to have existed,

      150,000,000 estimated to have been murdered during its reign of terror,

      they say if it wasn`t for the Scots conciliating the Anglo Saxon/Norman blood lust wherever they could it would have been 10 times worse

    241. HYUFD says:

      Scott Finlayson Rubbish, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, probably Genghis Khan too and Leopold of the Belgians, the Spanish Empire, Japan in WW2 too killed more than the British Empire

    242. Colin Alexander says:

      Robert J. Sutherland

      The “tactical voting” is a piss take of the Empire’s one:

      Every seat says: VOTE SNP.

      You should have looked before you criticised.

    243. Gary45% says:

      HYUFD@7.38
      “Scots of course played a huge part in running the British Empire”.
      Aye and where is the recognition in the “equal family of nations”??
      Normally when you need a Scot in the Empire, for the unbiased UK family equality, they are normally portrayed as either a junky, alky or a benefit scrounger.
      Scots for generations have been downtrodden by the so called imperial masters!?!?, so in recognition to your post.
      You are a FUD, please stop being a FUD. If you want fuddery at its best just look south of Watford.

      Scotland and its people will forever shine a light on the UK, England has sh*t the bed and can lie in its own squalor,(the proof is there for the world to see) they will not take us with them.
      SIMPLES.
      SNP= Independence, repeat until it gets into the nugget.

    244. HYUFD says:

      Whinge, whinge, whinge as usual. Scots have their own Parliament and the 55% of Scots who voted against independence in 2014 and the majority of Scots who still are not voting SNP now rightly support Scotland’s continued place in the UK

    245. Dr Jim says:

      The British method of dealing with smaller countries:

      Negotiation, they don’t listen, Separation, they won’t allow it, Conflict, followed by rapid negotiation because the British always negotiate with people who might do something back to them then call them names in order to demonise them because the original negotiation part was ignored in the first place causing the conflict part

      Unless you happen to be a big trading block like the EU that the British can’t do anything about…..too powerful

      That’s why Scotland will be in the EU just like Ireland

    246. Bobp says:

      Hifud.stalin, hitler, mao,the spanish, etc,etc, eere all DIFFERENT empires/regimes. There was only ONE brutish empire responsible for mass genocide. Now repeat after me.

    247. jfngw says:

      @HYUFD

      There were many Scots involved in the slave trade, they were good unionists. In fact they are still here bowing to be recognised by those who they see as their betters, intent on retaining the last colony. There are always those that will do another countries bidding, if the price is right.

    248. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim MEP Guy Verhofstadt has called for an EU empire, so if you are desperate for Scots to join that it seems you are now the Imperialist, the British Empire is long gone

      https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/watch-guy-verhofstadt-on-the-worlds-empires/

    249. galamcennalath says:

      Gosh all these overwhelming strong and persuasive arguments for Scotland to stay in ‘British Union’!

      It’s enough to make me reassess my position regarding independence.

      And just for the record, my pigs have been fed, watered, and are ready to fly.

    250. Bobp says:

      Hifud.8.50. Get back to us on the 13th dec and tell us about the majority of scots who continue to support scotlands subservience in this union.till then away and fcuk yourself you piece of shoe smudged dogshite.

    251. callmedave says:

      FGS! Penalty in 90th min to Greece. 0-1 🙁

      ——————————————————-
      @HYUFD

      Of course they were. But collecting and transportation had to stop before then.

      It is not a pretty picture but some bright spots. In Scotland itself for example. Abolitionism was growing.

      No personal slaves in Scotland or trained in Scotland before transportation to the colonies….Oh wait I forgot we’re a colony even now 🙂

      https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/history-of-slavery/scotland-and-slavery/

    252. Dr Jim says:

      The English exchequer retains 42% of Scotland’s taxable revenue while only 58% is *given* back as the fabulously titled *block grant* to the Scottish government, grant they call it!
      Scotland is charged with paying for HS2, Crossrail, new Heathrow runway, refurbishment of Houses of Parliament, refurbishment of Buckingham Palace, refurbishment of Big Ben and I could go on all day about what Scotland is charged for yet England borrows the money to pay for it and adds a percentage of that debt to Scotland and always just conveniently before the famous GERS figures are released to *prove* how much money England shovels over the border to maintain us whinging Scotch

      OIL 2017-18 Scotland recieved £1.1 billion from the extra regia territory North Sea deposits, England’s share was £31 billion not counting the stolen seas to the east of Scotland, Aye that’s F…..g equitable

      Oil capitol of Europe? don’t make me laugh

      But even none of that is the point, the point is self determination, for it or against it, if you’re against it F..k off and don’t bother me because it means you’re a dictator

    253. Andrew says:

      Tom Hunter donates 3 million pounds to children in need and the BBC cant get him off the stage fast enough, he clearly was the biggest fund raiser but he is Scottish, so fuck off jocks !!

    254. Republicofscotland says:

      “Whinge, whinge, whinge as usual. Scots have their own Parliament and the 55% of Scots who voted against independence in 2014 ”

      HYUFD. @850pm.

      I doubt very much that 55% still want to remain in this unfit for purpose union. Infact I’d go as far as to say the tables have now turned and unionists are the minority in Scotland and a Boris Johnson victory will see that minority get even smaller.

    255. galamcennalath says:

      A tale of two Unions.

      In 2016 when the UK debated whether to leave the European Union, the EU stayed out of the debate and respected those involved right to choose without external interference. Bravo!

      In 2014 when Scotland debated whether to leave the UK Union, the UK government, agencies, public service broadcaster, and civil service tried everything they could the undermine Scots’ right to choose. Interference was on an industrial scale. Everything they could muster to undermine the democratic process – from threats, fake news, dodgy information, and finally a raft of false promises of change. Boo Hiss!

      Which gave respect and therefore deserves respect? Which doesn’t even understand respect?

    256. One_Scot says:

      I haven’t read all the posts on here but can I just say all you unionist trolls pretending to be independence supporters, and we all know who you are, well you can all go and fuck yourself.

      No one gives a shit what you think. If you believe spending all day posting your shit on here will make a bit of difference you are deluded. Knock yourself out.

    257. Dr Jim says:

      The BBCs channel 9 programme just took us to Aberdeen to show us all the fishing boats with No Surrender painted on them, and I don’t think that’s a reference to the EU, then they proceeded to tell us about how well the Tories are doing and the *swing away from the SNP* which of course is not true because the Tories hold that area and it’s actually a bit more like there’ll be a swing towards the SNP because the folk who aren’t fishermen are waking up to what’s actually happening now and realising that the poor fishermen aren’t as poor as they made out as they sit aboard their million quid boats with bellies overhanging their belts while normal folk are using food banks and are a good deal thinner round the middle

      I’m sure it’s not all fishermen, but the one’s who appear on our TVs regularly seem to get all the say, and that suits the BBC agenda

      One shopkeeper even blamed rising prices and uncertainty on the SNP

    258. jfngw says:

      David Cameron said the 2014 referendum was a vote for Scot by Scots (paraphrasing there) then we were invaded by streams of MP’s from England, numerous foreign leaders were prompted to oppose independence, various celebrities, many who didn’t even live in the UK never mind Scotland pleading for a no vote. The most amusing was a Irishman, Boomtown Craps I think, telling us we should remain under Westminster rule (the honorary knighthoods work as well as the real ones). The MSM moved into full propaganda mode (zero support for a country that had close to 50% supporting independence, they are still at it).

    259. Dan says:

      HYUFD at 8:50 pm

      You do realise all your posts do is give us plenty practice in dealing with the inane attempted trolling you come out with.
      I therefore heartily thank you for putting in your time and effort on a Friday nicht and thus assisting in developing my campaigning skills.
      FYI I’m not dark money funded and so far have only received a jar of jam and a solitary scone from two folk I visited to show they were appreciative of the effort I was putting in.
      I know many Conservatives are as tight as a shark’s ass at 50 fathoms, but at my frugal jam and scone rates you could probably even consider hiring me to promote you next time you stand as a candidate down south.

      Anyway, having spent the last few days going round the doors and speaking to real Scots people (which includes a fair number of decent minded English folk that have chosen to live here); I’m afraid you are well off the mark wheeling out that tired old yarn.
      Many significant events have occurred over the course of recent years, so you wheeling out stats in isolation without factoring in how those significant occurrences alter the electorate’s previously held positions means you cannot rely on your stated stats.

      Pretty much everyone I chatted with are far from impressed by the utter clustefuck your Conservative party have made over the past few years. They can also see the pathetic performance of the so call opposition party too.

      I’ve met in past couple of days both a previous LibDem and a Conservative supporter who will now be tactically voting for the SNP.
      If your unionists parties are so strong and stable, how come it’s like whack-a-mole in Scotland with the rate of leader changes they go through.
      We’ll just have to see what happens on the 12th December. If SNP return a strong result the pressure on Jackoff Carcrash and Rhubarb Laxative might trigger yet further changes…

    260. Jim Fraser says:

      FUD at 8.50pm

      That is rich calling Scots whingers when all you do on Wings is whinge about how well unionist parties should be doing but aren’t!!! The only poll that will count takes place on Dec 12th.
      Give your arse a chance because your mouth is uttering too much s**t.
      Now do everyone a favour and disappear up your own a**e.

    261. Dan says:

      jfngw says: at 9:45 pm

      David Cameron said the 2014 referendum was a vote for Scot by Scots (paraphrasing there) then we were invaded by streams of MP’s from England

      Ahh, those were the days… here’s that 10 minute vid of our Imperial Masters visiting Glasgow. lol

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMXuEmqAHA

    262. call me dave says:

      Radio 5 now starting a blether in Aberdeen on the GE & Brexit & Indy.

      Ordinary punters (aye) honest says Big Auntie. 🙂

    263. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Colin Alexander @ 20:44,

      No indy supporter with even half a clue needs a website regurgitated to tell them the staringly obvious, so why bother? Duh.

      (Have you really nothing better to do with your time?)

    264. call me dave says:

      Oh wait the Scottish BBC helper with Steve Nolan (radio 5) tells us the AE waiting times and all the other 8 targets have been missed in SNHS.

      Wifie in pub says aye but what about England, it’s worse.

      Aye but says BBC helper 10yrs SNP should be doing better?? 🙁

      That’s enough from me. Same old Auntie BBC.

    265. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HYUFD @ 20:50,

      It’s funny how we are all those things you don’t like (whingers, subsidy junkies, etc., etc), so anyone might expect you would be happily cheering us on our way, yet it’s always the damn opposite: somehow people like you just can’t bear to see us go.

      Too damaging to your already-fragile self-esteem, eh?

      Not to mention all those juicy natural resources that couldn’t possibly exist, ‘cos you keep telling us we’re too poor…

    266. Iain mhor says:

      Grief, trotting out the Tobacco and Sugar Barons and all the rest I see as “All Scots happy clapped to be part of Empire and its profits. Did they fuck. A vanishingly small minority of Scots certainly did though.
      As for ‘Slaves and Slavers’ – Anyone manage to remember, that the slaves were ‘white’ initially. The Scots slave owners *ahem ‘indentured’ their own kind first and only when that source dried up (they died rapidly) sought slaves from other more suitabe airts.
      You can find the same stamp of Scotsmen and women, ensuring you work unpaid for multinational corporations and firms in Scotland, in return for an indentured ‘broo cheque’
      How everyone happy-claps to be a mere cog in the wheel of a successful and profitable Union today. It was unadultarated bollox then and it is bollox now.

    267. call me dave says:

      Oops! BBC helper with Nolan is Lyndsay she’s from BBC Scottish 9.

    268. @HYUFD,

      `Top 10 most evil empires in history`,

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IGHByjToO4

      A remark by Princeton professor Duncan Spaeth:

      “I know why the sun never sets on the British Empire: God wouldn’t trust an Englishman in the dark.”

    269. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Iain mhor @ 22:37,

      Yeah, this is a classic BritNat trope of the leftoid variety, intended to guilt-trip us into believing an otherwise-obvious counterfactual: that continued collaboration with the Evil Britoid Empire is the only possible way forward.

      So we just have to put up with its continued wars in far-away places to which we never subscribed.

      Aye right.

      If anyone out there is deluded enough to fall for this kind of self-hating navel-gazing trickery, I have a nice surplus metal structure in Paris to sell you…

    270. jfngw says:

      They need rebranded Better Together are to become Happy Together, they have their promo video. I think I spotted Ruth Davidson in it but who the rest are, your guess is as good as mine (could be AGH on drums, flouncing about).

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvu3xiFmfDU

    271. Dr Jim says:

      Now that Jeremy Corbyn has announced his *make journalists talk about him Broadband policy* Boris Johnson not to be outdone is to announce that he has sent a message to Krypton and Superman will be arriving shortly to save the world from climate change so vote for me policy

      Why is there no spitting image anymore when you need it

    272. K1 says:

      They must be absolutely terrified if Randy Andy has to have this interview to ‘white wash’ his reputation to the great English public.

      It’s a total fabrication that he did not know this young woman and to pretend now that he has no memory of ever knowing her is a total fuckin’ joke. BBC doing its utmost as per to shield their masters from justice. Be sure that the BBC did not ‘seek’ this interview, it’s been a negotiated by the palace affair and that means they are terrified of US courts going for him.

      How anyone can fall for this as some ‘exclusive’ journalism with ‘no holds barred’ questions and present it as some truth seeking excercise and not as it is, mere propaganda to save the reputation of Randy Andy, beggars believe but it will work in England as it always has.

    273. jeff says:

      HYFUD wet farting again I see…..Must be worried…

    274. ben madigan says:

      galamcennalath joked about

      “Gosh all these overwhelming strong and persuasive arguments for Scotland to stay in ‘British Union’!”

      Here are 20 that the Unionists in Northern Ireland are using to object to starting talks about a United Ireland!

      https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2019/11/16/20-unionist-objections-to-a-united-ireland/

    275. TJenny says:

      I see that the revolting Ian ‘bayonet the survivors (of the 1st indy ref)’ Davidson is standing again for slab in Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk. Hope he loses his deposit, although I’d settle for him peeling off some of the con/yoon vote.

    276. Terry callachan says:

      Don’t pay much attention to HYFUD , he’s raging mad because poor little England is shrinking by the day

      the people there are at each other’s throats we don’t get it on the news up here in Scotland but there have been numerous serious incidents of groups of people fighting about brexit in the streets of England

      BJ has dark rings under his eyes
      He cannot cope
      He isn’t up to the job
      Doesn’t have political knowledge which makes public speaking a difficulty for him

      English people are worried because they are split down the middle on brexit
      Many of them are going to vote for candidates and political party’s they would never dream of voting for just because they stand for brexit

      England is in a mess
      Floods
      Knifing each other in London 26 in a single day
      Overseas companies leaving England because of brexit
      The CITY banking business has already left and gone to the Netherlands and Germany

      No wonder HYFUD is blustering his way here on wings
      Seeing his england sinking into a swamp of confusion is hurting him
      So he’s taking his anger out on Scotland here on wings
      Poor old fool

    277. Sandy says:

      Re the royal Andy getting his leg over & the GE, have the Royals & their arse-licking Cons got their breeding schedule out of sinct.

    278. Shug says:

      Just heard a royal correspondant say on the TV Andy needs to be very careful of the US legal system it is above everyone and there is no controlling it.
      Not like here I guess!!!



    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




    ↑ Top