All Or Nothing
Even by the embarrassing standards of The National, the gulf between this morning’s blaring front-page splash and the weak, watery weasel words in the actual article is a chasm so wide and so yawning (in every sense of that word) that it would put the epic planetary scar of Mars’ Valles Marineris to shame.
Coupled with a feebly underwhelming Programme For Government (in which the main policy was the re-abolition of peak rail fares just months after the SNP insisted such a move was unaffordable, with no clue as to where the money had suddenly been found) and a pitiful list of candidates for next year’s Holyrood election featuring the likes of Sally “all aboard the gravy bus!” Donald, Kaukab “DECAPITATE TERFS” Stewart, Kirsten “DECAPITATE TERFS” Oswald, Alison “DECAPITATE TERFS” Thewliss and Alyn “throw anyone who doesn’t want to DECAPITATE TERFS out of the SNP” Smith, the story was an abject vision of a bleak future for independence.
It capped off an awful week. Last Wednesday the shameful actions of the Equalities Committee at Holyrood remotely debasing itself from the Cayman Islands to save an unrepentant Maggie Chapman caused an outpouring of rage – not just from the usual Unionists and media but from indy supporters – the like of which we haven’t seen in a long time, aimed not just at the committee but at the entire existence of Holyrood.
Those are just the first dozen we found. We could have printed 100 expressing similar or stronger sentiments and had plenty to spare.
The committee’s meeting wasn’t the only significant development last week, though. It came just one day before the Runcorn by-election and the English council elections, which both delivered stunning results for Reform, as very perceptively assessed by Marina Hyde in the Guardian.
(And very very terribly analysed by idiots who inexplicably failed to detail the route by which any general revulsion at the rise of Reform might magically be translated into independence, any more than revulsion at Boris Johnson/Brexit/Liz Truss had been.)
“Mogadon John” Swinney, long-suffering readers won’t need reminding, is the ultimate grandmaster of the anodyne politician-speak referred to by Hyde. During yesterday’s Programme For Government speech we were struck by how often he sounds like a man pleading for his life, wheedling with his captors for mercy while refusing to actually do anything to assuage them, mixed in with occasional deeply misguided attempts to act tough, like in the National piece where he attempts to blackmail indy supporters into voting SNP yet again despite a decade of wretched failure on every level.
(That isn’t even true. The Scottish Parliament was created as a result of the 1997 UK election, in which the SNP got just six seats on 22% of the vote.)
But it’s okay, because the grassroots movement will save us! Right?
Two days after those English elections, the last tattered shreds of the Yes movement marched through Scotland’s biggest Yes city on a beautiful warm sunny spring day.
Starting off with maybe 1,500 people, many of whom seemed far more concerned with the affairs of Palestine than Scotland, all but a few dozen diehards had drifted off by the time the march had reached its rallying point at Glasgow Green. The one SNP MSP who turned up told the “crowd” that she had to leave after a few minutes to go and campaign in the Hamilton by-election, which at the time was still five weeks away.
The increasingly-ironically-named All Under One Banner event was just the latest in a long line of damp-squib indy rallies attracting dire turnouts, regardless of whether they’re organised by the real grassroots, astroturf grifters like Believe In Scotland or the SNP themselves. And the reason for that is that in their hearts everyone knows independence is dead as a genuine political issue for years and years to come. As the current leader of Alba once memorably said: “I’m tired marching”.
In summary, then: everything is screwed. The SNP are still demanding that we vote for them and them alone, but then have no answer when asked how that’ll lead to another indyref when it so comprehensively hasn’t worked for the last decade. And Swinney, the party’s least effective leader of the last 50 years, has declared that he intends to bedblock the SNP leadership for another half-decade.
(One could of course make a strong case for Humza Yousaf as least effective, but he had a lot less time at the helm than Swinney has had in his two stints, he inherited a dreadful position, and he at least made some superficial attempt at formulating an indy strategy, so on a fair and full assessment Swinney is still the worst.)
But we knew all this already and we’re 650 words in, so what’s the point? After all, the only argument the gullible fools still voting SNP ever make is “Yeah, but what’s YOUR answer?”, so it’s a bit of a waste of time unless there’s a new idea somewhere. If you’re willing to be bought off with carrots, carrots are all you’ll ever get.
But luckily, there is. Because there’s one upside to the current confluence of miserable political events, although it needs someone with far more daring and imagination than Swinney to execute it. Tragically, the most likely candidate is no longer among us.
But the words Salmond was so fond of quoting have never been more pertinent or alive in the context of Scottish independence.
There is no sane reason for any Unionist party at Westminster to ever grant Scotland another referendum on the same terms as the 2014 one. The Supreme Court decision of November 2022 made clear that the matter lay in the House Of Commons’ hands alone, and they have absolutely nothing to gain from making the concession again.
That’s largely because they know another win wouldn’t end anything – the SNP’s wages depend on continually agitating, however limply, for independence and they’d soon be demanding a third shot. The only way to bring them to the table then, is to put something ON that table. And luckily, we do have something they want, even though it’s rapidly turning out to be pretty worthless to us.
That thing is Holyrood.
It seems all but inevitable that the next UK government will either be a Reform one or a Reform/Tory alliance. The SNP themselves constantly tell us so, and the country’s most famous psephologist concurs.
And Reform and the Conservatives are two parties who have no affection for Holyrood whatsoever. While both pay lip service to the UK as a union, we know that neither one – and more pertinently, not their voters either – would shed many tears if Scotland, and the fiscal burden they always claim it represents to the UK, went its own way.
And if those are the numbers where their “win” option is “no change”, imagine how keen they might be if there was an actual prize: tens of billions in expenditure saved and an end to having to listen to the whinging Jocks in the wee pretendy Parliament as they resist all your policies and take you to court at the drop of a hat.
So if you still haven’t worked it out, here’s what needs to swiftly become the policy of the independence movement for the foreseeable future: demand a referendum not between indy and the status quo, but between indy and the complete abolition of the Scottish Parliament.
For a start, it’s the morally honest position: either Scotland is a proper country and as such should run its own affairs or it’s a part of the UK, and if it’s a part of the UK it should be ruled by the UK Parliament. A weedy halfway house, constantly existing on the sufferance of Westminster, is the coward’s choice.
(It’s also very hard for Reform in particular to morally/ideologically resist, given the fuss they make about nations being able to determine their own futures. And we also know there’s a significant faction within the Scottish arm of Reform that’s keen on the idea.)
But much more importantly, it has at least half a chance of success, where the SNP whining on about a Section 30 for another 20 years has none, because this offers the other side something THEY want in return for the thing WE want.
Holyrood is useless to Reform and the Tories except as a sort of creche for any talent that might one day be useful in London. Neither of them will ever form the government in Edinburgh, and a couple of dozen benchwarmers losing their seats would be a tiny price to pay for being rid of the irritating pain in their neck that is Scottish Parliament forever, whatever the result of the referendum was.
And even the SNP tell us Holyrood is useless for delivering independence.
So we’ve got very little to lose. We can all waste our breath screaming for something we’re never going to get, or we can at least put temptation in the opposition’s way. It’s a risk – Holyrood has done SOME good things, some of which might be lost if it was shuttered – but remember how we mocked the “Better Together” campaign for trying to terrify us with tales of more expensive stamps and no Doctor Who or Strictly and all the pandas fleeing Edinburgh Zoo if we voted Yes?
Are we really going to be our own Project Fear? If we want to be a nation worthy of the name, let’s stop begging, grow up and put something on the line for it.
Please feel free to call me a moron if I’ve got this wrong. But didn’t John Swinney say early on this year, that the next Holyrood election wasn’t about Indyref2 it was all about good governance. I know, it made me laugh as well.
The rag seem to just write about indyref2 when its subscriptions are very low.
The SNP will never delivery nor will the party ever work with another party to deliver Independence, fact.
There’s now no doubt in my mind that gone the next elections (both Holyrood and UK) Unionists are going to vote, whether blindly or tactically, for Reform. Any ‘promise’ whether genuine or vague from Farage & Co. to dismantle devolution will be gleefully taken as a potential ‘victory’ over independence.
Maybe it’s what’s needed to shock the hard of thinking out of their stupor.
Reform are by far and away the most likely party to get Scotland out of the union
As if the twats in holyrood continue to be as annoying as they have been then
Reform will announce a vote to chuck Scotland out of the union
And the vote will be held in england
and it will be YES
And when it is announced
I’ll be moving to england and I’ll be voting YES
and you can be free
Free to enjoy an independent scotland run by Holyrood
You’ll all be millionaires* and you’ll all be sucking tranny cock
* look up hyper inflation
dont let the door hit your arse on the way out, ya fud.
I’ll even pay your bus fare.
Voting for Scottish Independence – ha so you have a use after all!!
RefUK are predicted to be at least the second largest party in the Senedd after next year’s election. They’re making noises that they’re going to be good little bachgen & merch (the prospect of lucrative sinecures works wonders).
It’s the Welsh Conservatives (faced with extinction) that are proposing to put clear blue water between themselves and RefUK by running on an “abolish the Senedd” platform.
Are they really? I’ve seen the polls – which point to a Plaid/Labour coalition, ie no change whatsoever, rather than Reform having any power – but I hadn’t heard about the Tories running on abolition.
The idea is floating around
Not official policy – yet
link to nation.cymru
The National has more articles about the Labour party than the daily record, is there a difference in the two news papers, I think not.
The National for me is like the SNP I can’t wait until both paper and the SNP is dead and buried and for good, neither has done the Yes movement any favors.
To be honest, I’d rather see the end of Holyrood than seeing the SNP invoking the “Scorched Earth Policy” for another 5 years, turning everything to shit that they touch with their “policies”.
I voted YES/YES in 1997 and celebrated like mad when we won as I saw it as a first step to Scotland being a government in its own right as an independent nation.
Now Holyrood can just get razed to the ground, it’s a failure, it’s made people’s lives worse with idiotic laws.
I wish the next 2 generations will have someone like Alex Salmond and break the Union, we had him and I wouldn’t say “failed” him but failed we did.
Holyrood isn’t there for Scotland or its people it only benefits the people who go there to work for the Union, including the SNP.
Its the same as AUOB, for over ten years sorry individuals have been walking the streets calling for Independence. I stopped a few years ago and starting writing to AUOB saying they needed to march against the SNP not using the mandates, but it fell on deaf ears. On Saturday after the AUOB what was achieved nothing, so whats the point.
The people want Independence now but there is not one person or organization other than Salvo and Leah gunn Barrett making any effort to secure it, when you hear the likes of Roddy calling for unity when the SNP doesn’t want it.
all the politicians parties who have seats in Holyrood don’t want change and its this attitude is the reason we are still joined to the Union.
I have people say to me tell me why you believe the SNP since 2014 doesn’t want Independence and my reply shocks them because they have never thought of it. I say when Alex Salmond said that after Independence there wouldn’t be any need for the SNP sealed Scotland fate, this is the reason why Sturgeon, Humza and now Swinney will never secure Independence they don’t want the SNP to dissolve if Salmond hadn’t made this stupid comment we might have had some movement on Indyrefer2 but not while the SNP’s MSP’s, MP’s or councilors believe the gravy train will stop with Independence.
The indy supporters were played for fools ever since The Late Alex Salmond put his notice in after the referendum The party were run by an Embezzler n a Fraudster
I’m sorry to say that it needs to get worse in Scotland, a lot worse, before the people will truly waken up.
Imagine a Grangemouth situation in every town and huge pylons visible from every window, whilst we still pay a premium for energy north of the border.
I said all this would happen over a decade ago. The only bit I missed was the SNP becoming a nonce party for deviants.
Alex will be spinning.
If I was a campaign manager for anyone other than the SNP in Edinburgh Southern in the run up to Holyrood 2026, I’d blow the budget on a billboard campaign. One side would have Sally “Gravybus” Donald’s infamous Tweet and the other half would have her employment history, ie her lack of one. She’s never had a job outwith the SNP in her admittedly short life.
If Labour have a safe seat left anywhere in Scotland it’s Edinburgh Southern. If they lose that to the SNP we really will be living in Zany World.
Aye Vivian.
Just another o the vacous talentless no-mark proven failures that the Murrells 10 plus year grip over WHO gets selected for the party machine has inflicted upon this country.
this was no accident. Only those neither able nor willing to challenge Nicola Murell were allowed to pass.
And if they didn’t drink the identity politics kool-aid, they were out.
Image that former Ambassador Craig Murray failed their vetting, but this foolish child kept getting promoted!
Check out the CV for “Sally ‘gravybus’ Donald” [1]
Sally Donald is the Head of Office for the Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey constituency. Her political career began at the age of 21 as an intern to Drew Hendry MP, where she was promoted to the role of Communications Officer, Constituency Manager and then Head of Office, whilst also spending a year in the constituency office of Angus Robertson MSP. In 2023, Sally was awarded the Staffer of the Year Award, and in 2024 she was shortlisted to the Pagefield Staffer of the Year Award for her work in making politics more accessible to women. She was recently appointed to the board of 50:50 Parliament as an Advocate, working towards a gender-balanced Parliament. Sally is the Policy Lead on the ParliGender committee, the Workplace Equality Network for Gender Equality, where she is running a mentorship programme to support the career development of women working in Parliament. As a feminist and violence against women activist, Sally was recognised by UN Women UK as a ‘Safe Spaces Now’ Champion for her work in campaigning for an end to public sexual harassment.
I look through the released list of MSP candidates and I see only 2 people who _might_ contribute towards advancing our cause: [2]
Keith Brown and Martyn Day
Admittedly I don’t know ALL of them exhaustively, especially the younger ones.
So in a spirit of fairness, I invite people to post here any further names from the list who they are SURE are all for Independence, and not just seat-warmers.
I would like to be surprised, and yes, I do think Ivan McKee may actually be competent enough to be a capable deputy leader but otherwise the talent pool is almost non-existant.
[1] link to events.holyrood.com
[2] https://www.thenational.scot/news/25142709.snp-confirm-every-holyrood-election-candidate—see-full-list/
Is there anything preventing a Reform/Tory government from dismantling Follyrood without Follyrood’s permission?
No. But it’d be a terrible look. Doing it with the consent of the Scottish people would be vastly preferable.
Not strictly true, the Scotland Act provides that the abolition of the Scottish Parliament can only be done following a referendum, although the principle that parliament cannot bind its successors may mean that parliament could repeal that section. It could make for an interesting case in the Supreme Court.
Can you think of a good reason to vote against Hollywood being binned?
I can’t
Scotland was run far better when it was the scottish office whose job was to run stuff
not to try and win votes
Scotland has been made far worse place to live since we foolishly voted for those morons to pop into existence
And I’d say the same for Wales and the idiots they have in ………..
“the Scotland Act provides that the abolition of the Scottish Parliament can only be done following a referendum”
I’m not sure that’s true, but even if it is it’s meaningless, like the Sewell Convention. Westminster can simply override it at will.
It’s under S.63: link to legislation.gov.uk
The Sewell convention is only a convention (as the name suggests), it does not legally restrain the Westminister Parliament from passing laws in devolved areas. The case that S.63 above restrains the U.K. Parliament from abolishing the Scottish Parliament (or S.63) without a referendum is something that I would say is at least arguable.
As an Englishman, I’ve always assumed the SNP’s underlying strategy was to be so obnoxious that the English voted for Scottish independence out of sheer exasperation. It’s going pretty well so far.
The only thing stopping them is the fear of a backlash. Such has always been the case since it started.
“a terrible look”, “fear of a backlash” – really? From who? The Scottish electorate where the unionists bandy together and vote for Reform/Tory anyway? It won’t be fear of a backlash from them, nor fear of losing Scottish votes since Scotland’s Labour/SNP voting record has rarely had an impact on the right-wing winning or losing a UK election.
We all know that Scotland isn’t a subsidy junkie or else the UK establishment would never have fought tooth-and-nail to keep Scotland in the union and it’d be the same for Reform when they finally see the real books when they get into power.
So option 1 – gamble and potentially lose the income from Scotland but in either case get rid of the Scottish parliament or
Option 2 – get rid of the Scottish parliament, keep the Scottish income and avoid paying potentially billions per year to lease Faslane. Seems like a no brainer to me.
You seriously think arbitrarily closing Holyrood wouldn’t cause a HUGE spike in indy support? Remember it was backed by 75%.
“You seriously think arbitrarily closing Holyrood wouldn’t cause a HUGE spike in indy support”
OK, but so what? No Scottish parliament means the indy-supporting voice is suppressed. And while a majority of indy-supporting Scottish MPs would probably then result how did that work out in 2015? They’ll just be ignored by the unionists and there’ll be no international outcry just as there hasn’t been with the UK blocking another referendum or over Catalonia’s attempt to become independent. Remember, we’re talking about an insular Trump-lite Reform/Tory coalition UK government who couldn’t give a rat’s @rse about the opinion of foreigners, unless it’s Putin.
“OK, but so what?”
It’s a valid argument, but it’d be such a politically idiotic move it’d open the door to a properly radical indy party that Westminster might actually be scared of.
75%+ support is very very different to 48-52%.
Rev you are banging on about the 75% who voted to create Holyrood
Can I put it to you that
99.9% of the people who voted in that referendum had never heard of Nicola Sturgeon
and 100% of them had not seen the SNP in action running a country
That is somewhat of a game changer
Not merely obnoxious, but utterly repugnant and supremely incompetent.
Seriously, no fair-minded arbiter could deny this assessment: the SNP make Labour look good.
That’s some serious turd polishing.
Any grifter with half a brain cell knows that Holyrood is a dead-end. The paths that lead to power all start elsewhere. If Holyrood is anything, it’s an asylum for the insane, or the feeble of mind. Then again, maybe it does have a purpose, after all.
Are you doing any polling shortly Stu (or doing a fundraiser for one)? Would be interesting to see the Indy/end Holyrood split, especially by party.
Yes, I’m considering some polling on this. It’s been a while.
Why waste your money. Scotland isn’t going anywhere anytime soon even if the polls said Independence was at 90% there isn’t anyone in a position other than the SNP to take us to Independence and the SNP don’t want to do it.
I’d love to see how popular Reform policies are if you removed the “reform” label from them
Swinney was yesterday’s man yesterday
Reform is a English national party and I have no idea why the Indy movement in Scotland isn’t pushing Reform give England a vote on Independence. We should be looking at every single route even if its the route England takes. I’m not fussed about how Independence is delivered or who deliverers it as long as its delivered and delivered soon.
Yep
we must grasp indy as Brexit has shown how easy and beneficial it is to leave a union
I would vote YES if it wasn’t for the fact I adore the king and follow rangers
As it would deliver unlimited money and we could have any law we wanted
Just like Brexit and Trump have delivered
We should be pushing on every front,
It is ridiculous to to think there are only two option to the two union parliaments both in Britain.
Just as ridiculous to suppose that there are now roughly 85 muslin court along side The Supreme law courts that both make a mockery of Scots law,
It is as daft as pretending Scotland and England do not have separate borders to this day,
And idiotic to not think of why the monarch considers himself as defender of all faith instead of protector of the only two mentioned that bind Scotland and England together with interwoven crown, parliament and monarch of England,
These of just a few fronts besides, their still being two or more sub- parliaments in Britain able to diversify laws. Which breaches the fundamental article of being one parliament of Britain hereafter.
As for the devolved Scottish parliament it is either.
A colonial parliament in nature.
A parliament of England,
Or
A Scottish parliament.
It holds no legality as as being two separate parliaments and two separate governments of Britain at the same time.
YouGov, Westminster voting intention, field work 5 – 6 May.
Scottish sub-sample (190): Con 8%, Lab 15%, LibDem 9%, SNP 35%, RefUK 26%, Green 6%.
RefUK in clear second slot over Labour by eleven points!
Holyrood seat projection: SNP 61, RefUK 32, Lab 17, Con 8, LibDem 8, Green 3
The problem with a ‘Shit or Bust’ strategy is
a) YES loses – Westminster rule forever
and
b) Yes wins – SNP and gender cult in power for the foreseeable
The benefit of a “shit or bust” policy is;
A) Yes loses – we don’t have to tolerate the student level debates and virtue signalling taking us nowhere. Or
B) Yes wins – Holyrood gets full powers and serious people become interested in taking part. SNP fail at first vote, with no carrots left for the gullible…
AKA the magic cupboard theory
When we leave the union
The unicorn of free stuff opens the magic cupboard and out pours a bunch of serious and competent polticans who are all wearing tartan and love scotland
fantasy
Sheer fantasy
I will more then likely be voting Reform in the next Holyrood election
The only folk who label them as FAR RIGHT is the mainstream media
I find very few of their policies I directly disagree with
and while you can say they are completely unproven in government with total justification
I will say the other parties in Holyrood are very much proven
Proven to be fucking useless
How I dearly miss Alex . The indy movement needs a leader, but in the current crop, not one exists. It’s long known that Swinney is a bullshitter. Your 100% right Stu, let’s gamble with something they want but don’t have.
…”things only happen to move Scotland on when the SNP does really well”….”that will be my pitch to people in Scotland”…”not going to come about by any other means than the SNP doing really well”….
Well, thank you very much Mr.Swinney…..that’s me totally convinced. Clear and concise….I’m glad it is now all sorted out.
Phew!
I thought we were in trouble for a minute there.
Great.
That ‘pitch’ just lobbed itself lemming-like off of the cliff at Dunnottar…
As I have stated before,the SNP leadership have forgotten David Cameron’s comment about the union being a partnership of equals.
They could start by apologising to the voters over their inaction over the closure of the Grangemouth refinery,and the high cost of energy.
Also ensure all employment contracts in Scotland are under the jurisdiction of Scots law.I share the views of many not just on this site that one aspect of diversity that should be promoted and increased is the pre politics employment history
of all candidates for election.
Others who have called for the scrapping of Holyrood are made from anger at the lack of ability not the institution which would be like disbanding the team you support if it’s full of duds who can’t kick a ball.
Scotland Act reserves energy and employment to Westminster. Holyrood can’t change that unilaterally within current Supreme Court precedent rulings…
Interesting to hear how you think Holyrood could change that?
WELL……..
link to thenational.scot
link to bbc.co.uk
A least oppose and challenge it.
The people of Scotland voting in the vast majority for parties committed to Net Zero
The SNP
Scottish labour
Lib dems
The Scottish greens
the SNP bravely stopped fracking in scotland that Inoes wanted and the bravely blocked a small nuclear reactor in Grangemouth
the Scottish greens who are truly a scottish party as they want to end the union have pushed to close Grangemouth
The people of Scotland voted for Grangemouth to be closed
Suck it up buttercup
Is everyone forgetting that the English parties are lying when they say Scotland is a burden? That’s just propaganda aimed at Englanders.
They will never permit/offer either an indy vs. status quo or an Indy vs. abolition referendum because THE UK CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE SCOTLAND.
Brexit changed the UK; independence ENDS the UK.
The huge impact and negative consequences of Indy for rUK are many orders of magnitude greater than the “earthquake” of Brexit.
WM will offer nothing. Ever. WM will never again cooperate in risking the integrity of the UK. To believe it will is to go up yet another stupid garden path to nowhere.
“WM will never again cooperate in risking the integrity of the UK. To believe it will is to go up yet another stupid garden path to nowhere.”
So… give up forever?
But Holyrood CAN be the legitimate voice of Scotland. Why should it not? It is the place where our Scotland votes elect Scotland parliamentary representatives. So it can become the valid source of a democratic event to bring about withdrawal from the “Union”.
The Liberate Scotland umbrella grouping of pro-independence candidates and parties could get enough MSPs to make the SNP work for our cause. It was launched into the public domain on barrheadboy.com/25/04/11/liberate-scotland/ – there will be more information before long, I imagine. So far the ISP and Independents for Independence are already under this umbrella.
Kenny MacAskill of Alba Party seems to be adopting this approach of combining with others in order to unite the independence vote – he has written to the leaders of ISP, SSP and Greens. He also wrote to Swinney…
Therefore I don’t advocate closing Holyrood just yet – we can use it to gain our freedom. We just need to clear out the dross who currently live there as parasites on our sovereign people.
“We just need to clear out the dross who currently live there as parasites on our sovereign people.”
Oh, as easy as that? Great news! Let us know how you get on.
Rev, my comment said how it can be done! Vote for the Umbrella candidates.
Surely that could work? Get enough people of principle and intelligence who want Scotland independent into Holyrood.
The plan needs to be publicised and supported in order for voters to know who to vote for. For the life of me I can’t see what would prevent you from supporting this move.
Vote for us and we will deliver you indy
I’m sure I’ve heard that before
Who was it
Rickla Furgeon?
@Sarah – the collection of well meaning hangers on and drifters aren’t going to get more than a few % each. They aren’t a serious political force. What news from New York btw?
I voted Yes at the referendum, the first real time the scottish people had a chance to have a fair say on whether they wanted to be part of the UK, or not.
The vote was to stay as part of the UK and ever since I have accepted that result.
While the SP has done some good things they are pretty much all in the past and the current lot put the institution to shame and do not now represent the majority of folk in Scotland.
I have for a long time now thought that abolishing it and taking part fully in WM again is the way to go. This has its drawbacks but the clown show that is the SP is just a huge trough for those in it nowadays and we would be better without it.
The pre-union Scottish parliament was not dissolved, it was prorogued. Because of this, the current Scottish parliament wasn’t created, it was reconvened. The legal documents from the 1700’s and from 1999 confirm this.
It is a continuation of Scotland’s sovereign parliament, irrespective of whatever powers Westminster deigns to give it. As David Davis said of the Lords, only a parliament can vote for its own abolition. Reform can try of course, and practically they can achieve it by force or cutting funding. But they can’t do it legally.
When push comes to shove, they might inadvertently prove it’s full sovereignty.
Sorry Stu, this has no chance, for a few reasons.
There are two major objectors to Scottish independence on the English right in particular. There are those that passionately believe in the union, which is quite a lot of your older Tories/reformers, and there’s a larger group that aren’t hugely bothered by the constitution, but don’t want government over the next 5 years to be purely dominated by sorting out independence with the Scottish Government. There are very very few people who support English independence, and so it’s a guaranteed vote loser, probably on a significant scale, unless there is a really compelling reason to provide for it.
Which brings me onto my second point, the abolition of the Scottish Parliament and government is not something anyone in either the Tories or Reform (outside of a tiny few) will see as a benefit. The U.K. Parliament can currently legislative over devolved issues if it wishes, and the devolved governments respectively manage political issues in those countries that otherwise would need to be managed at Westminster. Nobody in the devolved administrations at the moment is providing any serious political challenge to Westminster politics at the moment either.
Finally, what legitimate democratic reason could there be for not allowing a vote for the status quo which enjoys widespread support. I think that would be incredibly hard to sell as legitimate, and the contrary position: abolition of devolution would definitely drive support in favour of independence.
“There are two major objectors to Scottish independence on the English right in particular. There are those that passionately believe in the union”
Did you not see the poll? If there’s anything for them in it at all they’ll drop us like a hot tattie.
“abolition of the Scottish Parliament and government is not something anyone in either the Tories or Reform (outside of a tiny few) will see as a benefit”
No political party ever wants to cede any power it could have for itself.
“No political party ever wants to cede any power it could have for itself.”
Some people should have that as a tattoo
That is the number 1 reason Westminster opposes Scotland leaving the union
Despite Scotland being a drain on the economy
Also
I don’t think that they would be overly keen on sharing a border with a radical left wing loony bin which hosts Hamas training camps
As that’s how it would end up with the current contents of holyrood
Yes – but I don’t think that poll is an accurate reflection of where public opinion south of the border really is either then or now. With polling, you’re asking people to make a split second (and therefore often instinctive) on a subject where they haven’t heard political arguments or spent much time thinking about, and in the context of the Brexit battles which in the heat of the moment were “Brexit above all else” for some people. I’d be interested in seeing how your proposal (not the two options you propose, but the proposal itself) polls, I suspect it would poll very poorly outside of Scotland and with unionists, and I think it would only poll well with nationalists who would see it as a tactically advantageous approach.
“There are very very few people who support English independence, and so it’s a guaranteed vote loser, probably on a significant scale, unless there is a really compelling reason to provide for it.”
Brexit was/is a stupid idea but the BritMedia convinced millions of half-wits to vote for it.
The BritMedia already tell their moronic readers that the Scotch are subsidy junkies – if they tried hard enough independence for Engerland would be issue number #1 for the fools.
the brit media was screaming for Brexit
What media where you watching?
Support for Britain leaving the European Union was high before the referendum. Even though the prevailing view across the U.K. is Scotland is a net recipient of public funding right now, I would guess enthusiasm for a second independence referendum probably sits at around 10% of people at best. I haven’t looked at polling but that’s my instinct.
“…the prevailing view across the U.K. is Scotland is a net recipient of public funding…”
Nice try.
The view (lie) promulgated by the BritMedia you mean?
Someone asked Tory minister Waldergrave the question, and the answer came back that UK net funding to Scotland annually was/is….. “zero”.
No, the view from the U.K. treasury and its economists, not from you misquoting William Waldegrave (who in any case misspoke back in 1997, 28 years ago). Tax revenue in Scotland is around the same per head as the U.K. as a whole, but public spending is quite a bit higher due to the impact of delivering services in very rural/island areas. You’re free to produce your own figures if you want if you think that’ll convince them . .
One reason there is a Scottish parliament at all is because as a nation (so we claim/so it is claimed) we are at least entitled to internal self-determination. If we voted to end that, I’m not too sure how we would a) ever reclaim it, and b) have a vehicle for a plebiscite election. Hence, we’d be risking closing a very heavy door on our descendants.
Sure, you could say the plebiscite election is unlikely to happen based on the current context – too many idiots voting SNP1,2; SNP potentially compromised (or at least against a plebiscite). However, I think if you’re a Scottish nationalist (like myself), yes you want independence in your lifetime, but it’s your duty at the very least to maintain it as a possibility for your children or grandchildren. Persuade me how closing Holyrood makes independence any more likely.
Final thing I’ll say: although many people in England don’t give a sh1t about Scotland and much of the younger generation may never have even been, they overwhelmingly see Scotland as historical territory (to use a Putin phrase), so there’s no way their letting it go. They may want to Anglicise it. They may want to even repopulate it (dump asylum seekers here for example or send their wealthy retirees) but there’s no way they will give it up.
“Persuade me how closing Holyrood makes independence any more likely.”
Um, the idea isn’t to lose the vote.
Yes, that would be the hope. But that hope will play with a very bad set of cards against a system that will always be deliberately rigged to prevent Scotland’s independence.
You may still retain confidence and trust in the UK political system and its “democratic” values, Rev. I do not. I lost most of my confidence and trust on that system the 16th September 2014 when that stupid vow was released in violation of purdah. I knew then the vote would be rigged no matter what.
The rest of my trust disappear over the last 10 years through events like Sturgeon’s capitulation speech, the way Yousaf and Swinney were catapulted as “leaders” of the SNP and the way the civil servants colluded with the SNP and the crown office to stitch Mr Salmond up. Nothing I have seen since that 16 September 2014 has served to build that trust back. Nothing I have seen in the last 10 years has made me believe such a referendum would ever be fair and honest if done under the control of the British state.
Taking control of Holyrood is a huge opportunity for the powers that be. After what they did to Mr Salmond and how they manipulated the COPFS, I am surprised you still think those powers would just sit back and let the process be fully democratic risking the loss of Scotland’s territory, waters and assets.
I am afraid I do not believe there is a chance in hell that process would be properly democratic and with a reasonable franchise. In fact, I am sure it would not be and we would “lose” such referendum.
The referendum in 1997 was allowed to proceed more or less naturally because the alternative the establishment was facing was far worse: support for independence was rising.
One of the IPSOS-MORI polls conducted from the 12 to the 16 December 1991, for example, had 40% support for independence of Scotland (9% supported separation from England, Wales, NI and the EU; 31% supported separation from England, Wales and NI but wanted to remain in the EU), 40% supported remaining in the UK but with its own devolved assembly and only 17% were in support of the status quo (remaining in the UK without assembly). 3% responded “don’t know”.
The situation today is very different to 1997. At that time, the powers that be were trying to curb the increase in support for independence. This time, support for independence is already established. By seizing control of Holyrood, they would have the opportunity to lock down yet another door to independence. I cannot see them even giving a chance to that opportunity escaping them.
Long since fascinated with NASA’s ongoing release online of planetary photos, particularly the surface of Mars, so your Wiki link certainly caught my attention. Following it up yielded the following, which may hopefully be read as extended political metaphor:
« Valles Marineris (Mariner Valleys) is located along the equator of Mars and stretches for nearly a quarter of the planet’s circumference. The canyon system starts in the west with Noctis Labyrinthus (Labyrinth of the Night). The most agreed upon theory today is that Valles Marineris was formed by rift faults. »
« Due to friction and the rigidity of the constituent rocks, the two sides of a fault cannot always glide or flow past each other easily, and so occasionally all movement stops. Stress builds up when a fault is locked, and when it reaches a level that exceeds the strength threshold, the fault ruptures and the accumulated strain energy is released in part as seismic waves, forming an earthquake. »
Actually you might want to watch the Electric Universe guys expose what caused canyon systems etc on Mars, the Earth and other planets via plasma bursts between the planets and Sun as they changed places in orbit especially when the Proto- Sun Saturn was captured by the Sun ripping the Earth from its orbit around Saturn where our planet originally orbited around.
That is where the ancient myths of the gods fighting each other in the sky came from and where the advanced ancient civilization that built the Pyramid Acoustic Power Plants and other advanced ancient sites all over the world were destroyed by these plasma bursts at least 12,000 years ago with the melted granite statues still showing this damage today in Egypt etc all over the world as shown on the Brien Foerster and other Youtube channels.
The engineer Christopher Dunn exposes the advanced ancient technology in his books and the Pyramid Power Plants in his book The Giza Power Plant. Of course the powers at be do not want the masses to know about this advanced ancient technology etc as they continue to spout the nonsense about Egyptians with soft copper tools cutting and carving very hard granite etc creating these even more advanced and far more accurate technology than we can and have today.
That’s fit ah always say tae the boy wha comes tae read ma meter:
“Giza power plant o ma very oan an ye will be oot o yer joab”.
Haha, jist ma wee joke
As it happens I have one of these ancient advanced and accurate technologies myself, a Phaoronic 2000 BC moby.
It has them all on speed dial, Osiris, Ra, all the Rameses, even Amun himself (he never answers – always goes straight to voicemail).
You don’t get those kind of features on a modern Nokia or iPhone.
The psychiatric nurses forgot to lock the door to the computer room again!
You never disappoint Billy. Mince after mince after mince.Sometimes though, it is entertaining.
I propose Mr Carlin to be the First Minister in the new Independent Scotland.
Great analysis.
Reform are a complete game changer having already broken the two party game.
They are approachable for “out of the box” thinking.
The rules are a changing – who is smart enough to play them the best?
Is it a case of all or nothing, or a case of either or Or.
Had that quote on the inside page of my school dictionary – all the way from Primary 7 to, and including, 6th Year. Never once wavered until recently, and I’m no spring chicken. I had seen Alec Salmond as our first independence PM, and the shock of his death really threw me. It is so hard to forgive what they did to him.
I hate the SNP – as an independence supporter – and I hate Holyrood – as a woman. I wouldn’t spit on either if they were on fire. If there is a candidate in my constituency, in 2026, from any of the actual independence parties, then I’ll vote; if not, I will not vote.
It feels that we have come such a long way and yet are still so far. Giving up hope entirely is no option either. We will win through, and there are those who are fighting hard to move us forward, and, much as I have no time for Mhairi Black, she is right: we will never get independence via Holyrood. In 2014, we didn’t lose it all. We lost a bit, but not it all.
Lorn said:
>It feels that we have come such a long way and yet are still so >far. Giving up hope entirely is no option either. We will win >through, and there are those who are fighting hard to move us >forward, and, much as I have no time for Mhairi Black, she is >right: we will never get independence via Holyrood.
I would reply: We can’t give up! Don’t be defeatist.
AS THINGS STAND TODAY we will never get independence via Holyrood.
Therefore one of our tasks is to change how things stand!
Oh and I would say to ANY YES voter, if you really can find no candidate that you can vote for at ANY electoral event, please still go to the polling booth and repurpose your vote!
Those who do not are (falsely) counted among the apathetic/uninvolved/ignorant etc. none of which would be fair.
Best regards.
aLurker.
aLurker: my post would suggest the opposite of defeatism. I don’t care how my non vote would be counted, I will not vote for the SNP ever again. I would consider spoiling my ballot, of course.
In 2014 it was about the Unity of Scots to control their future.
Now
We will align with Gaza
Islam is to be embraced
We will hate Jews
The Tories are scum
The TransCult must be worshipped
15 minute Cities are wonderful
Car ownership and roads are evil
Increase TAX to fund Woke policies.
If my views are irrelevant in an Independent Scotland then I shall use my vote in the best interest of MY Family.
If my fellow Scots are going to vote SNP/Green then I want nothing to do with that scum.
I voted SNP for over 50 years. I have been an Independence supporter all my life. If by some miracle another Referendum occurred in my lifetime I would vote NO.
“So if you still haven’t worked it out, here’s what needs to swiftly become the policy of the independence movement for the foreseeable future: demand a referendum not between indy and the status quo, but between indy and the complete abolition of the Scottish Parliament.”
Agreed.
Yes, I can see how that might well work, Rev, but I am still wary of pre independence referendums. They can still be lost. We don’t just have the independistas to think about, about the large rUK population up here who might happily throw Holyrood away, and the Unionist Scots who, although Unionist, are still Scots, and direct rule from the UK might or might not appeal. I like the all or nothing though and it would get us out of this stasis. Maybe worth the gamble?
The SNP have become just a career choice for the useful idiots & minor mediocrities (being generous). Some will continue to vote for them no matter what for various reasons, but if enough simply didn’t vote, that career choice wouldn’t be so appealing if it was within a small protest party. Thatcher was dumped by the tories because she had become a vote loser and the tories went on to lose power largely because they lost their control of TINA. Blair saw to that. The SNP still rely on their TINA and until voter support for them declines enough to make them (the Sturgeonist SNP) a clear dead end, then no other political option will exist. There is no challenger right now.
The SNP have been fucked for 10 years now. Not that long in political terms and the SNP is an organisation. Change happens when they feel the pain. Ask Elon Musk. So instead of taking a nuclear ref option I hope that people in Scotland prove not to be so gullible that they feel they have to vote and stick with the SNP. Not voting may be the only way to bring all this to a head without burning down the house.
It’s a good idea but a lot for Scots to lose and to even it a little, I think it should be a Scots referendum for Scots resident in Scotland.
We now know 52% of Scots voted yes to independence. So non Scots scuppered Scottish independence and this is a democratic outrage that can’t be repeated.
Voting in the referendum should be restricted to people born and resident in Scotland at the time of the application to vote.
We can risk it all but it should be a fair Scottish independence referendum with Scots putting our parliament on the line in return for the prize of sovereignty.
England should have no quarrel with that, they can get rid of sweaty socks and the sweaty parliament. A win win for everyone.
is it just us English filth that should be banned from voting
Or would you include the new Scots who have come here from the islamic world
is it just us English filth that should be banned from voting
Or would you include the new Scots who have come here from the islamic world
Also after indy
Will us English filth be allowed to stand for office?
I don’t think you’ve taken that nearly far enough, Jamie.
Here’s my idea – you’ll kick yourself for not thinking of it first.
The vote should be open to everybody – no qualifications or restrictions. No age limits either, 4 YO and above. No proof of identity needed. And no ban on repeated voting. If you want to, as soon as you have voted, go to the back of the queue and wait your turn to vote again. Repeat for as long as you have the time.
When it comes to counting the votes, only the Yes votes get counted.
Simples
How about
No more anonymous voting
All votes have to be public and registered
So anyone who voted NO can be jailed immediately if there is a YES vote
The SNP offer no route to independence.
As a lifetime indepenanista that’s a tough one to face up to.
Not just the leadership have abandoned us but the carrot munching membership. It was your party now it’s there’s. Look back in anger.
Hold on – I thought the UN are going to declare that Scotland is independent!
It’s in the In Tray, x.
Trouble is, more urgent stuff keeps getting dropped on top. So it’s now well buried.
I mean, have you seen the news lately. Even if it’s nearly all pathetic lies (waves to Marie), you’ve got to admit, there’s a hell of a lot of more important shit going down.
The SNP under Salmond achieved a majority at a Scottish PR vote = he got a referendum – get that again and there may be another referendum.
And he got that by people like me voting for them as they where making a decent job at running the country
I would of probably voted YES
Then I encountered folk like Geri
Far left English hating knuckle dragging racists
I’m of the opinion that if I was to take Rev Stu’s text above, feed it into an AI, and ask it for a two word summary, it would be
“Game over”.
Here’s what he said:
“in their hearts everyone knows independence is dead as a genuine political issue for years and years to come”
Yet after the usual half dozen comments on the article, the usual suspects are off, flogging their own favourite hobby horses, deaf and blind to the reality manifesting itself outside their bedroom windows, endlessly reliving in their heids the exilirating days of 2014.
Here’s what Rev Stu also said:
“demand a referendum not between indy and the status quo, but between indy and the complete abolition of the Scottish Parliament”
Bingo! Let’s lance the boil, once and for all.
Let’s walk the walk, or never talk the talk, ever again.
Let’s put up, or shut the fuck up.
“(in which the main policy was the re-abolition of peak rail fares just months after the SNP insisted such a move was unaffordable, with no clue as to where the money had suddenly been found) ”
————————————————–
“The Chancellor delivered a Budget on 30 October that was the largest settlement for the Scottish Government in the history of devolution. It means an additional £1.5 billion for the Scottish Government to spend in this financial year, and an additional £3.4 billion in the next. That amounts to a total of £47.7 billion for Scotland’s budget in 2025-26, the biggest financial settlement in the history of devolution.”
————————————————
That is the answer – quite simple. It also enabled the SNP to declare that they will pay every pensioner in Scotland £100 before the next election in Holyrood along with abolishing the two child payment cap from next year.
The SNP are benefiting from payments made by UK Labour and using it against them.
The SNP did not have the funding to do that under the UK Tories.
Yeah, they’re giving a little bit more of our revenues back to us [places cap in hand] “..thank ‘ee guv’nor”.
They are giving enough for the SNP to pretend they are doing things for people in Scotland.
Oh It’s Scotland oil!!!!
got any figures on how much we send to the English
and what we get back
Why aren’t you wearing a bunnet, or a glengarry, or a tam o’ shanter?
What are you, some kind of plastic Scot?
Bet you never go anywhere without your jeans, trainers, burger grease stained hoodie, and a baseball cap (size very small).
More tripe about GERS. Scotland’s tax take was £88billion, that’s £40b that could have been spent in Scotland for Scotland, not to mention that we’d have our own central Bank that could invest in so-badly needed infrastructure
Too political, Stu. Ghandi was right, Congress was wrong.
If Nigel Farage became PM and being a believer in democracy if not on Indy, offered the Scots a referendum on Indy, it would seriously dent the SNP vote.
It would also offer some hope where the SNP offer absolutely none.
” And the reason for that is that in their hearts everyone knows independence is dead as a genuine political issue for years and years to come. ”
” Everyone ” , really ? Maybe that’s how it looks from Bath , I can assure you , Stu , it looks very different from North of the Border ; and is borne out by consistent polls showing majority support for Independence .
The abstract ” everyone ” you refer to is not made any more an actuality by pointing at the – admittedly dismal – turnout at some ” March ” ; sure , such events used to attract far bigger numbers , but , just maybe , those former marchers have come to realise the biggest problem is the stultifying inertia of the SNP * Leadership * and the only ” March ” that would have any point would be to Holyrood to protest the abject betrayal of it’s former raison d’etre by the once ” Party of Independence ”
All this ” indy won’t happen for years n years ” constant negativity must be having a dampening effect of people’s morale too and is surely a self-fulfilling prophecy .
You can talk about ” realism ” & ” pragmatism ” as much as you like , but if the only strategy you can come up with is a proposed horse-trading with a theoretical Reform/Reform+Tory English Government ( who would do the trading from the Scottish side ? ) wherein * we * offer the erasure of the ( feeble as it is ) * Scottish * Parliament for , effectively , permission from our colonial overseer to unshackle ourselves from ” Union ” – I’m afraid you may as well join the ranks of S30 pleaders , because , until and unless we stop asking our jailers for the keys to our liberation nothing will change .
How about instead of uninformed dismissal of people who are actually trying to progess our cause outwith the withered Party Political closed-loop , eg SALVO/LIberation , Peter Bell , the I4Is amongst others , this site extracts itself from it’s seemingly permanent plough of despond and starts – again – being a positive force for Scottish Independence ?
I’m with you, Bob.
Post the date and time of the March On Hollyrood on here and I’ll see you there.
Lets go kick some ass.
You make an excellent point Robert. The Rev’s view (and that of the daeless co-opted SNP leadership) that Scottish national liberation depends only on Westminster (e.g. “The Supreme Court decision of November 2022 made clear that the matter lay in the House Of Commons’ hands alone”) is clearly wrong given the process of decolonization, which a great many former colonies now independent states successfully followed, has already begun where it must, at the United Nations itself:
link to liberation.scot
@Alf – It’s nearly two months since your submission was sent to the UNCDC. What response have you received?
A wee bit patience please, we have to undo 300+ years of colonialism efter aw, its related pathology, a UK ‘union’ hoax deceiving the international community as well as Scots, plus the last decade of a co-opted national party elite that has taken the movement up successive blind alleys.
Fanon’s ‘Three Phases of Decolonization’ provides the template:
link to yoursforscotlandcom.wordpress.com
Sure – I’m not asking whether you’ve ended the union yet, I just want to know whether you’ve received a response from the UNCDC and if so, what that response is.
One problem with the UN approach is that it relies on the support of member states with their own indy movements (around 30 in Europe alone). I can’t see that happening.
In the event that the UN tells Salvo to fuck off, what happens next?
@Dunx – exactly, that is the political problem. If the UNCRC agrees with Scotland’s claim, how then does it approach the whole host of other regions and nations seeking their own independence. A great amount of effort and huge care was made in the 1950’s and 1960’s explicitly to prevent this situation occurring. Whilst International law explicitly prevents recognition of NSGS in this circumstance, that could in theory be changed by treaty, but what incentive would any state have to agreeing to that treaty that would be strong enough to counter the potential existential threat of successionist movements. For this reason, it’s a complete dead end.
Aye, good post Robert.
I only drop in occasionally now as the latest site change means it’s now back to 15 mins for posts to appear but it’s still kept the half-baked nested comments setup making it even harder to catch up and follow commentary or reply.
Got to have a wee chuckle at Stu having a go at low AUOB turnouts though when his own worn out barely functional site’s btl traffic has dropped off with the loss of so many quality posters.
Maybe tweaking the site into a decent state and posting some positive content on a wider range of subjects once in a while would help this site play a more positive part in the wider pro-Scotland returning to self-governance movement.
Stu, you undoubtably have some serious journalistic skills, but the almost myopic focus on genderwoowoo, and negative critique of others, with little if any focus or support proffered towards the efforts and ideas of others is a shortfall.
We know Scottish politics is bad, we’ve known this for years, but we will all continue to endure this situation until we work to build something better.
Note the use of “we”, the onus is on all of us who want to improve Scotland’s lot to work together.
No one person can do it all by themselves, and a very important strategic lesson should be learnt from the untimely passing of Alex; And that lesson is sole responsibility for such a big and important cause should never be allowed to reside on the shoulders of one individual or small clique. It’s a big fail that quite so many now feel dispondent and that there is a perception that nobody else is similarly capable. Being receptive to others and recognising and nurturing new talent to come through the ranks should be an obligatory part of those purportig to be movers and shakers in the Scottish self-governance movement.
The week Grangemouth stops refining and workers lose their jobs and we get posts on here taking the piss out of “Jen”, and you responding to Scot Goes Plop, who churns out endless blogs on the flawed internal democratic processes of the Alba Party after he left and moved to the NuSNP… that bastion of gold standard internal Party democracy.
FFS, will ye no gie yersels a shake and wise up.
And whilst here. If this article agrees with Mhairi Black that Holyrood is not going to deliver Indy then what was this blog for?
link to wingsoverscotland.com
And if disfunctional Holyrood goes then should a Westminster election (where UK constitutional matters reside) be used as a defacto plebiscite for returning Scotland to self-governing status.
@Dan – I don’t think that’s wholly fair, Stu has put forward two alternative approaches in the last 6 months. But within the status quo, there is no route to independence and the negative tone reflects the overall situation in Scottish politics at the moment. In my view, the biggest problem is how many commentators here are either down the conspiracy rabbit hole, or are in some myopic state of denial thinking that advancing a historical argument based on laws passed 400+ years ago in a court somewhere is going to be the nudge that pushes this over the line and brings down the union. I’ve been spending some time this week looking back at interviews and articles of Alex Salmond and others in the 90’s/2000’s and the seriousness by which they took advancing the cause of independence and tackling the major policy issues associated with it. None of that is happening anywhere today, and we should remember 2014 was a culmination of those efforts.
What we have now is a lake that is drying out, and it’s going to take decades to fill it back up again. We may as well be honest about that rather than pretending some cunning plan is just around the corner.
I think Robert, above, is correct. The unionist are deliberately fostering despair and apathy and you, Stu, are playing their game exactly into their hands.
To go outside the UK entirely, as Salvo Liberation have is the only route possible imho. Get a pro-independence majority in the election to show the will of the people first though. A referendum on independence would then be overseen by UN observers. There’s no shortage of good people, currently sidelined, who can form new groupings or parties and run Scotland for the benefit of its people.
It is sheer folly to engage in a dead-end colonial-Scotland political system for the purpose of Scottish independence since The Supreme Court confirmed Scotland’s colonial status, in that Scotland has no right of self-determination under imperial England’s rule.
No believer in the right of self-determination should be swearing allegiance to the UK head of state when that UK state denies self-determination for Scotland.
Until the UK recognises the right of Scottish self-determination, boycott UK politics. Don’t vote: don’t for imperial MPs or colonial administrator MSPs who swear allegiance to King Charles.
Colin,
In what fundamental article of the treaty of union does it state that Scots can only hold a referendum through a sub secondary devolved Parliament of Great Britain parliament?
A devolved second parliament from Westminster is not mentioned at all to enable that vote to happen,
Have I got this right?
After Independence Scotland will automatically have an honest, competent Government. The Government, who ever that will be, will be awash with cash and will spend it wisely ensuring that ALL Scots will benefit. There will be more than enough to set up all the necessary institutions, including defense, that are required. There will be a few!! No debt will be accrued as Scotland simply walks away from the current UK National borrowings?
The costs of everything will fall to a level that everything is easily affordable to all.
Scotland will be the envy of the world.
Or am I missing something?
A brain
Sam;
LOL – the correct answer!!
Maybe I could get a loan of yours Sam? I hear that it has hardly been used!
Farage is on record saying that he opposes Scotland’s independence. People in England most likely to support Reform are ambivalent to the Union.
link to centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk
“England remains a nation discontented with itself. Its relationship with its neighbours both within the UK and in the EU remains either unsatisfying or unsettled, depending on whether voters are on one side of the Remain / Leave divide or the other. There is a clear feeling among English-identifying voters that their nation has been hard done by and that its current appearance is a poor reflection of its former glories. The authors suggest that England’s overall attitudes to the Union as a continuing constitutional reality are ambivalent at best and, in the case of primarily English-identifying voters, 72% would say “so be it” if another constituent of the Union chose to go its own way.”
what utter guff.
Most people in Scotland want a Parliament regardless of independence status. Totally false choice.
This does not further the Scottish people’s interests.
“We have identified and examined a number of individual themes across this body of work including, inter alia:
? The very strong relationship between English national identity and Euroscepticism. On average, the more a given individual prioritises their sense of English identity the more Eurosceptic their views are likely to be;
? The strong sense of identification among the English in particular with some parts of the UK state’s imperial history and with the peoples of some of its former colonies, namely what used to be known as the ‘White Dominions’. There is no escaping the racialised dimensions of what we have termed the ‘English worldview’;
? The very strong relationship between English national identity and what we have termed devo-anxiety, namely a sense that England is unfairly treated within the domestic union with a sense of grievance focused particularly on Scotland, a country regarded as enjoying an undeserved and unfair level of political influence and resources compared to England;
? A striking degree of ambivalence about the continuing territorial integrity of the UK state among English-identifiers, including a tendency to regard the goal of Brexit as being far more important than maintaining the place of either Scotland or Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom; and finally,
? A strong sense of dissatisfaction with the current arrangements for English governance combined with a sense that the proffered alternative,namely‘English devolution’ – the buttressing of a regional or meso-level ofgovernment within England – is also inappropriate and/or insufficient.Again, this is particularly the case among English-identifiers, although it is also worth stressing that in this case even those in England who identify as British and not English also tend to favour treating England as a single entity rather than as a collection of distinct units.”
Today’s entertainment – an excellent, almost funny, piece by Robin McAlpine “It’s Karaoke Night in the Mediocracy Cafe” [over on Voices for Independence].
You’ll never guess who he is talking about. [Yes, you will.]
Not today – it was yesterday, 7th May.
If we were adding a maths equation we would have to include all the figures together to reach an accurate answer.
If we did not do that, then we can easily be cheated.
This is the problem that independence supporters have always had when adding the minuses and pluses.
We only look at one issue at a time and often through a narrow lens, and it never occurs to most here whats missing in the equation ,
and how someone trying to scam you and separate you from your finances will have dodgy book keeping and hidden figures, and direct you to distraction discussion and abusive arguments on personal attacks so you never reach the point where you would look into the details to closely.
This is what the unionists have done on this site for years, that is and has been their MO.
It works 99% of the time on this site because of not recognising the strategy they use.
For me it increases and amplifies my curiousity on why they do not want to go in depth on a subject.what do they not want you to find, why do they try kill and cancel out the conversational topic by attacking. But happily keep you talking and chatting on any other topic under the sun.
Fear.Fear fear.
It is that little detail they do not want you to find or see in case it brings their world around down their feet.
So where unionist prey you do not dive into to deeply, that it is quickly dismissed and advert your attention taken away from a subject, that is exactly where the independence supporters should be looking for their main topic.
Go out the door you came in.
I came across a news article yesterday which mentioned the Gen Z are turning to religion more than other generations. Details about this are in the below link:
link to archive.is
It’s hardly surprising as Gen Z don’t drink, smoke or do anything else and have been more exposed to the ‘Be Kind’ culture than the rest of us. What is surprising is that they are turning to conservative religions like Catholicism rather than the more liberal churches, where the possible reason is that they offer tradition and depth which is comforting in these uncertain times.
In relation to independence, it does seem that this infatuation of the SNP towards woke issues to try and garner the youth vote might be beginning to backfire if this ‘Quiet revival’ that is spoken in the article has truth to it.
NB Mark Hirst’s case for malicious prosecution is being heard today. He will need them.
He will need all our very best wishes. He is accusing COPFS.
Hear, hear!
I could name those whom he may wish to avoid. Let’s just call them Judge A and Judge B.
I am coming from a slightly different perspective over the scottish plastic parliament than Stu, that it is all or nothing, but perhaps an either or or situation.
It is either a full parliament of Scotland able to pass Scots Law over the Scots nation and Country within its borders of Scotland.
Or as an alternative process it is a Colonial plastic parliament set in the other half of Great Britian.
This conclusion is reached due to the fact that legally within the treaty of union articles there is no such vehicle for Westminster as the “one and same parliament hereafter of Great Britain” to broach that subject through a referendum to the Scots as if they were a sub set to the treaty of union,
And a sub set of people and separate nation out with the parliament of Great Britain.
Westminster parliament breached a fundamental foundational Article of that 1707 treaty by instigating the Question of a referendum on a secondary governance and parliament in and for Scotland.
With this in mind The Scotland Act itself has no Standing in the treaty of union articles.
However here we are, the Westminster parliament in England under the treaty of union or not as the case may be,
has provided Scotland with a parliament that has been passing Scots laws and governing Scotland.
voted in by the Scottish people with permission from Westminster parliament.
either as extended Colonial parliament sent to Scotland to govern the Scots, adding a extra sub- parliament to the treaty of union. Which breaches the treaty of union. ( Not one and the same parliament of Great Britain hereafter )
or it is actually legally the Parliament of Scotland.
It may not be a case for all or nothing,…but a case for either OR
There are not any alternatives seeing as it Breaches one of the fundamental foundational articles of the treaty of union.
“One and the same parliament”
Had England devolved as a country, the same as Scotland, within the Union – but not as a handful of cities and regions which should be an internal English devolution of powers from THEIR government and not the British government – the Union might well have been saved.
It would have cost the English their dominion over us, the Welsh and the NI, but, with all four parts properly devolved and able to make laws to suit their own circumstances, and others to suit the equal Union created, I think that independence would have come organically and naturally after a time, anyway.
Westminster, with its huge numbers of English MPs and Lords, could not have outvoted us or Wales for NI because we would all have had parity of voting strength as COUNTRIES and NATIONS, albeit there might have had to be economic levers to try and balance each part’s advantages and disadvantages without losing political integrity.
This could have been achieved long ago, but England has always sets its face against any real interpretation of the Treaty Articles because they would have lent authenticity to Scotland’s/Wales’s/NI’s needs to be independent parts of a greater whole.
The interpretation England-as-the-UK has always placed on the Treaty, and entirely wrong, in my view, is that Scotland was subsumed. This is patent nonsense, if not downright lies, when one reads the Articles and all the speeches and words and actions around the Treaty. Queen Anne herself admitted that the Crown was still a two-parter, not a British institution – more lies. One head of state, two separate crowns and two separate functions as head of state for each nation.
The Union of the Crowns meant only that the OFFICE of the head of state was united in one person (James VI of Scotland and I of England). The wording of the Articles, properly scrutinized according to the constitutions of Scotland and England at the time, shows Scotland to have been a partner and never a conquest of England’s.
Crawford and Boyle – for the sake of continuity after Brexit, had Scotland voted YES and England still had a Brexit referendum – deliberately, to my mind, because I cannot see how you can begin a proposition with a ready-made conclusion and miss out the rest, misinterpreted the constitutional position pertaining after 1707. Legal jurisprudence (legal philosophy, or, indeed, moral philosophy) would not permit of a pre existing conclusion as a proposition and prior to the argument.
It was shocking then and is even more so now. However, we lost the referendum, and I’m not at all sure that another pre independence one would not suffer the same fate unless a strict vote of Scots-born and long-time New Scots was instituted. The Rev’s plan would quite literally cast the dice and we could lose all or gain all.
The SALVO/Liberation/Liberate Scotland, etc. plans would not necessarily rule this out, as they are already some way forward into persuading the international community of our right to independence and they are offering evidence of the actual constitutional position according to the Treaty and Claim of Right rather than the lies perpetrated by Westminster for over 300 years and underlined, whether knowingly or otherwise, in 2014, by Crawford and Boyle.
Lorn
A lot in what you say, and a lot to pick a part,
Excellent summary! The fact of Westminster insisting on its own sovereignty only verifies that the concept of sovereignty is a legitimate one in the Union, and thus also puts it in a bind concerning Scotland’s sovereignty, which it cannot therefore legitimately deny, and cannot legitimately pretend was subsumed by England under the Treaty.
Since no-one involved in the negotiations and agreements leading to the Treaty possessed a high enough authority to legally deprive the Scots of their sovereignty or demote it below England’s, then by definition, England’s MPs cannot possess any legitimate authority to overrule Scotland’s MPs on any matter of Union governance. This would still be the case even if the Treaty contained an actual statement obliging the subordination of Scotland to England, because Scotland’s actual sovereigns were never involved in the negotiations in the first place, and never agreed to it.
Thus, England’s domination over Scotland over the last 318 years was unwarranted, ultra vires, and thoroughly fraudulent, and it still is today. Any imposition of English authority over Scotland or her MPs thus renders Scotland a de-facto NSGT with no attenuating circumstances.
You don’t seem to think much of them at all, in fact you seem quite against them.
But at least the Palestinians are willing to actually fight against their oppressors for their independence.
Where we probably agree is that these AUOB losers aren’t even serious about Palestinian independence, they just want to wave flags symbolically.
Dear Stuart Campbell,
Thanks for highlighting the Palestinian block at all under one banner. The Scottish socialist party turned up, and were giving out their Palestinian signs.
How can it be a nationalist when we’re obsessed with the politics of another country? And they are all wearing the Palestinian scarves around their necks – I don’t like that at all.
I empathise with the Palestinians but All Under One Banner, is Scottish Independence. It’s a deliberate tactic to divide the yes movement and it won’t stop. The Saltire is the inclusive flag of everyone in Scotland. The Palestinian flag now annoys me.
Inclusive of everyone in scotland
Does that include filth like me?
On the positive side of things at all under one banner. The crowd were singing Scotland the Brave and A Man’s a Man for all that! It reminded me of yesterday and our songs of freedom. Scottish freedom songs. Hope over Fear!
If only the university students of 2024 had an Independence referendum to look forward to. It only the Scots had a way to Independence with a leader like Alex Salmond. This country would feel ten feet tall.
Starmer is destroying the case for the United Kingdom. He’s just opened up Britain to India, who can come in and work for 3 years. Get all the benefits. Undercut local workers and pay no VAT. The guy, is the worst kind of betrayer and Farage is waiting to take over any minute now.
I thought after Indy we would have open borders and anyone who is in Scotland can have unlimited FREE STUFFFFFfffffff
Independence vs the abolition of the Scottish Parliament. The NHS is on the line. There’s an internal market act. And Reform will do what they like anyway.
Hopefully we can temp Satan’s spawn, profidious Albion to agree to that one
WE MUST PROTECT THE NHS
AS THERE IS ONLY TWO HEALTHCARE MODELS ON EARTH
the NHS as we have here in the UK
And 1005 health insurance which America has
No other country on earth has any healthcare of any kind
It is a interesting subject the Scottish parliament.
The vote, to be given by a referendum with in the territorial borders of Scotland, by The people of Scotland, for Scotland is Intriging.
At what point can the Crown of England and the governing Westminister crown parliament of England now say that they have not breached a main foundational fundamental article of the treaty of union of ” One and the ( Same ) parliament hereafter”
Ie not a devolved parliament in another Country across the Border from the Country and kindom of England where the crown of England is settled.
It is interesting that while Scotland is supposedly already in a treaty with England we are offered and extra Scots parliament to be run as a Scottish parliament, to pass Scots laws.that differ from the laws of England.
It is also fascinating
Mmm. Sorry, Rev, but I am not enticed at all by this proposal.
Judging how the resident unionists in these threads appear already to be salivating at the prospect, I can see how this would appeal enormously to all those colonially minded. But to be frank, I do not see any appeal on it myself. Quite the opposite, in fact. I see it as a complete and unnecessary sell out. It is, in my opinion, going too far.
I am sure you are privy to information the rest of us are not, which will explain the reasoning behind the proposal. But to me, this proposal is as unpalatable as tending a begging bowl to the imperial power 100 times bigger than the nonsense of the S30.
I appreciate that what we have at present in Holyrood are not actual representatives of Scotland but rather gravy “bus” riders, self-serving careerists and tools of the British state. But that does not automatically mean that we have to get rid of the whole thing.
You do not give away for free your house to your neighbour simply because that neighbour is complaining that the paint on your facade is peeling off, or you got a bit of mould growing in the windowsill. What you do is to shut the neighbour by restoring the wall, paint over it and fry the mould with highly concentrated bleach.
What we have to ask ourselves is what is making that institution of Holyrood dysfunctional. Why it is not serving us. What is causing the “paint” in that parliament to peel off and what are the conditions that have resulted in unsightly “mould” growing in the institution.
What is allowing all those bampots to get away with it? What exactly is that is allowing individuals like Chapman to completely violate any rational and honest procedure and vote for herself to not be ejected from the committee? And what made everybody else in that parliament to insult us all by looking the other way like pathetic, unethical cowards, letting her get away with it?
The response for me is clear: the problem is not the parliament. The problem is who and what those in parliament are working for, who and what they have sworn allegiance to: the English crown.
The problem is the Scotland Act and an allegiance that is not towards Scotland. The problem is the number of plants in that institution working for the USA’s deep state and for the rogue state in the ME. The problem is that we do not have, at present, any way to deselect any of those corrupt and betraying arseholes and chuck them out.
It is all those things what we need to throw light at and target, not giving away the institution, just because it has malfunctioned since the political fraud Sturgeon got to power. We need to repair the institution so it suits us, not giving it away.
I am sure I am not the only one who has wondered a lot of times over the last 10 years if the “incompetence”, “inefficiency”, crass attitude and in your face corruption since the political fraud Sturgeon took over has all been by design.
As Aidan wrote above, in line with the Scotland Act, Westminster cannot abolish Holyrood without a referendum where the Scottish people vote for its abolition. Well, since the political fraud Sturgeon got to power, I have wondered many, many times if every single one of her sellouts, her despicable moves, every one of her disgusting policies, every one of her betrayals, every time she pissed on our mandates, every time women were attacked for defending their rights, Dorrian’s rulings, the performance of that embarrassment to her profession Lord Advocate, etc, etc, were done with a view to get us to reject Holyrood.
This to me is particularly pertinent in the current context where the clowns in Westminster are trying to negotiate a trade deal with USA. Robbing us of our Scotland’s NHS, our Scotland’s water, our Scotland’s energy, our Scotland’s agricultural land to sell it to USA in that treaty would be really easy if all of those were under the control of England MPs. Needless to say that that other assault against Scotland, the implementation of the freeports and fracking of the bejesus of Scotland would be far, far easier if England MPs were in full control of Scotland.
So my response to this proposal Rev is, no thank you. I very much appreciate the amount of thought you have put into it, but it is not my cup of tea at all. Actually, if I am to be honest, I am a bit hurt that such proposition was even considered.
I do not see why Scotland has to sacrifice anything to get England to agree to our freedom. Actually, I do not see why Scotland has to get England to agree to anything. Scotland is not England’s effing possession. We are in a treaty. There is nothing stopping Scotland ending that effing treaty. Actually, there is nothing stopping Scotland rejecting the English crown altogether.
So enough with the begging, please. Enough with the surrendering of more of Scotland’s assets and forwards with ending that bloody treaty for once and for all. During the last 10 years, we have seen more than enough surrendering and giving away of our assets by the useless, two-faced, coward and betraying SNP. So no any more, thank you.
What is in our way?
What is currently in our way is not Westminster. It is the idea of Westminster peddled by the useless and coward so called “Scotland’s” representatives. They love to hide behind that idea. What is in our way is the ambition of SNP careerists, professional SNP seat warmers, their sense of self-entitlement to a salary at the expense of deceiving the Scottish people, the delusions of the deluded Greens and the cowardly Labour, Tories and libdems operating in Scotland which are such monumental cowards that cannot even find the balls to either become real Scottish parties, or actually acknowledge they are nothing more than local branches of England’s parties.
So, how do we remove those obstacles out of our way?
We will not remove those obstacles by continuing to validate the process by which they gain control over our institutions and over the assets of our country. We will not remove those obstacles by continuing to agree to concessions and by voluntarily stripping our own country of its assets.
We will remove those obstacles from our way by denying them bastards a vote, by refusing to legitimise the flawed system that keep foisting these useless individuals on us. We will remove those obstacles by sinking the flawed system that is perpetuating absolute rule over Scotland. We will remove those obstacles by uncovering that what we have in Scotland is absolute rule disguised under a veneer of faux democracy.
If Holyrood is ever offered as a sacrificial lamb in exchange for a vote on independence which with all certainty will be rigged by the British state to frustrate independence, as, in my opinion, they already did in 2014, I will refuse point blank to participate in such political and institutional suicide for Scotland (metaphorically speaking).
I appreciate all the amount of thought and reasoning put into coming up and writing such proposal, Rev, but that is a cup of an exceptionally bitter tea I will point blank refuse to drink. It feels like a definite and complete regression to much worse, not progression to better.
Happily there will be true independence fighters to vote for, Mia. All the “small” independence parties/candidates will be under an umbrella organisation so that the “small” votes will be aggregated – this gives a chance of gaining list seats. And that will mean some real fighters in Holyrood – people of integrity, intelligence, drive, and not perverts/fetishists either.
“Happily there will be true independence fighters to vote for”
I am counting on that, Sarah, but, If am not mistaken, that umbrella group will only run on the list.
I will never again entertain to cast a vote for the SNP or the Greens under any circumstance. Voting for an English party (Reform, libdems, tories or Labour) was never an option for me.
I could consider voting for Alba if they had a constituency candidate. If not, I will not vote on the constituency.
Should Alba run on the list when there is already an umbrella candidate in the list, if I can bring myself to vote, it will be for the umbrella parties, not Alba. I am still very disappointed that Alba took part in Swinney’s stupid summit and that they are not actively condemning freeports.
Am I correct in thinking that Alba and the umbrella candidates will still swear allegiance to the English crown against Scotland and will abide by the (anti) Scotland Act if elected?
Because those two things are sticking in my throat like a fish bone and making the process of voting very painful to me. I see no advantage in casting a vote for a representative that is going to immediately cease to be our representative the minute they swear allegiance to a foreign crown and abide by a flawed act that places an unelected representative of that foreign crown in a prime position to seize control over our executive and legislative power, effectively guaranteeing absolute rule over Scotland. What is the point? Why would I ever want to vote for that?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, sara, but who cares about that?
Don’t we really need racist, sectarian, twisted bigots if we are ever going to build support.
Do you honestly think the likes of Mia, an enthusiastic apologist and cheerleader for poot, and an openly unashamed antisemite, is ever going to get behind “people of integrity, intelligence, drive”?
You need to pay more attention to what people really are.
“an openly unashamed antisemite”
If, according to you, the new meaning of the word “antisemite” is to feel sick at, fervently oppose and have the uttermost contempt for a murderous, genocidal, sadistic, maniacal, infanticide rogue state that is starving people and subjecting them to the most atrocious treatment, starvation and dying of thirst, denigration, dehumanisation, humiliation, and unbearable pain, akin to what we use to call the “holocaust”, then hell yes. Bring it on. I will wear that label as a badge of honour.
But if, according to you, the meaning of the word “antisemite” has changed to the above, then the meaning of the word “holocaust” has also changed to refer now to the sickening horror that that murderous rogue state is inflicting on the P people.
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot be the victim and the vicious aggressor at the same time.
Aw, quick everybody, look at Mia. If frantic virtue signalling could give you wings, she’d have enough lift to carry fare paying passengers.
How many alert readers have noticed how her original allegation has become lost in the clouds of obfuscation stirred up by her petulant foot stamping?
So here it is again:
“The problem is the number of plants [in Hollyrood] working for the USA’s deep state and for the rogue state in the ME”.
Your words, Mia, your allegation that it’s Da Dews behind Scotland’s woes.
At least have the guts to own what you write.
“The problem is the number of plants [in Hollyrood] working for the USA’s deep state and for the rogue state in the ME”.
My words. And I stand by each and every single one of them.
So what?
By the way, it is Holyrood, not Hollyrood. If you truly live here in Scotland, how is it that you do not even know the name of your own parliament?
It is rather amusing how quickly you peddle away from the old faux antisemitism card when confronted with the facts that you cannot be a victim and an aggressor at the same time and that you cannot change the meaning of the word “antisemite” unless you also change the meaning of the word “holocaust”.
Woo, check out the big guts on Mia. She’s standing by her words.
There’s your route to Indy right there. Start wanging oan aboot the mendacious behaviour of Da Dews in Hollyrood.
Who says you can’t be a victim and an aggressor at the same time? Look at you – umpteen thousands of mostly meaninglessly repetitive words about how it’s all shite, and nothing’s worth bothering with, and they’re all agin you, and it’s all rigged anyway by shadowy behind-the-scenes rootless cosmopolitans and if only we had a pres poot of oor ain tae save us.
Then, bam – it’s Da Dews behind it all.
Nice deflection BTW
Many of us know the difference between ‘holy’ and ‘holly’. The day people start calling the fecking place Holyrood will be the day I stop spelling the fecking place Hollyrood.
Now off you trot and find a Dew somewhere. Maybe you really need to be closely checking the dong of the next intact bloke to expose himself to you in the women’s bog.
Maybe he’ll be circumcised, just imagine that, eh Mia!
Fucksake, what do I have to DO to stop you people fucking wanking on and on about Israel and Palestine? Close comments altogether?
Understood.
I’m gonna assume that “wanking on and on” is an order of magnitude more serious than “wanging on”
Mia,
Hear hear.
It is not allor nothing,
The problem is the voting system in Scotland under Westminster parliament of Englands rules.
I agree there is nothing wrong in the Scottish parliament, it is an inanimate object,
It is the clever leaders whom manipulate the voting system to let the idiotic cringeworthy payrolled puppets in.
The problem is not what we have its how we do not vote to use it to our best advantage.
Mia blaming Scotland’s situation on Da Dews again.
Who ever thought, back in the heady days of 2014, that antisemitism was woven through grassroots Indy support?
But it is. Scarcely a week goes by on here without one of the usual suspects signalling his or her membership of the inner antisemitic cabal by telegraphing one of the usual, centuries-old canards.
So be it. They’re not for changing, but for ordinary decent Scots, forewarned is forearmed.
“days of 2014, that antisemitism w…”
zzzzzz!!
Antisemitism. The good old magic (but by now devoid of meaning) word that has been abused so, so, so, so much to deflect criticism from a rogue, genocidal, apartheid state that now bores me to tears and sends me right to sleep.
Sweet dreams, Hatey
(snoring sounds) zzzzzzzzzzz!
Like I said, Mia, you’re an openly unashamed antisemite.
Whether it’s you blaming your perceived wrongs in Scotland’s governance on Da Dews, or it’s Confused lathering himself up over the Heebs.
Or maybe it’s Barbie fantasising about putting in a voluntary shift on the mobile gas chambers.
This kind of filth is all over Wings BTL these days. It rarely ever gets commented on by most posters. The way in which the usual suspects like to keep dropping hints about it into their posts to show those on the inside they’re “in the know”, signals to me it’s a thread that runs deep in grassroots Indy support.
So yeah, you’re out, loud and proud. Well done you.
Just like you’re out, loud and proud in your support for pres poot, and his imperialist war of aggressive re-colonisation of his sovereign former colony.
There you go, Mia. Have some more words on me – you can pretend all these new ones are meaningless too.
Mia
It’s people like you that stopped me voting YES
And I use the term “people” in it’s loosest meaning
Y’know, I’m not sure you were ever voting Yes, mate.
“It’s people like you that stopped me voting YES”
Yes to what?
It is trolls like you and Hatey what stopped me believing UK rigged politics can ever be a route to independence.
It is trolls like you and Hatey that have convinced me that what we see in Scotland’s politics today, and even in the relentless trolling in these threads, is the result of industrial scale interference from USA and its self-serving appendage in the ME.
Are any of you two even based in Scotland?
hail mia, full of grace, the lord is with thee …
jesus was “antisemitic” :
Ye are of YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
St Paul too
who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and OPPOSE ALL MANKIND
hatey is either a jew himself or one of those types of prod who is so -confused- about everything he doesn’t know what he believes in (except the catholics are to blame)
New pope is interesting; I was hoping for an african myself, those boys don’t take any woke shit.
Hail Confused, full of shite.
Don’t you want to know which school I went to?
You need to get back to polishing the valves on your mobile gas chamber, while you dream of the righteous vengeance that one day shall be yours, if there is any justice in the world.
If Scotland ever does get Independence, I’ll lobby for you to be stuffed and mounted in the foyer at Hollyrood.
As a sobering reminder to future Scots of one of the reasons we languished as a nation unfit to steer our own destiny for so long.
Lookout Confused, there’s a shirtlifter behind you!
“sons of satan” and “enemies of the human race” (*)
– do you not read your bible, main?
I would have thought sola scriptura was your kind of thing.
but old testament only, right.
(*) I reckon had Jesus or St Paul met any Anglos they would have included them in those descriptions.
Tentative translation of the Marquis of Montrose quatrain:
He either fears his fate too much,
Or his deserts are small,
That puts it not unto the touch
To win or lose it all.
(Marquis of Montrose, 1612-1650)
Cus oillte ro na tha ‘n dàn,
No fhìor thoillteanas a dhìth,
Nach dìon àrd-mhiann le cridhe slàn,
Mus tig buaidh no call san strì.
(Marcas Mhon Rois, 1612-1650)
The link to your piece about the NATO debate shows how much better your writing has got over 13 years, but it also demonstrates how much, in the words of Taylor Swift, Everything Has Changed: from easy dismissals of a new Cold War to unironic praise for Angus Robertson. Although nothing illustrates that better than your assertion that “a few more Greens is no bad thing” (!)