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Wings Over Scotland

All around the houses

Posted on October 23, 2016 by

The UK’s decision to leave the European Union has, it seems fair and uncontroversial to say, thrown Scotland’s Unionist parties into something of a spin. With all of them having campaigned for a Remain vote, all are now faced with the unsquareable circle of operating in a country that voted to stay in both the UK and the EU but can now only have one of those things.

Scottish Labour were the first to get themselves into a fankle, unsurprisingly. Their leader Kezia Dugdale first said she might conceivably be able to see herself voting for independence in order to stay in Europe, but then frantically backpedalled as soon as anyone noticed, and is now locked into a position of “never, no chance, not no way, not no how”, even as her own deputy publicly disagrees with her.


(Uncharitable readers pointing out that she took the same view on Jeremy Corbyn, before backing him wholeheartedly when he first won a leadership, then backing Owen Smith a year later on the grounds that Corbyn was useless, then insisting that Corbyn had her fulsome support and could definitely win a general election when he won the leadership again, should be ashamed of themselves. If a leader can’t U-turn three times in the space of 12 months, who can?)

But remarkably, the Scottish Tories seem to be even more confused.

We’ve already noted Ruth Davidson and David Mundell’s numerous reversals on the issue, from “a second referendum must not be blocked” to “we will do everything in our power to block a second referendum” and back to no block again.

(Kezia Dugdale, incidentally, also bafflingly opposes a Westminster block, leaving both leaders in the odd stance of saying that it’s not a matter for the UK government to decide, which logically means it must be up to the Scottish Government, which was elected by a landslide on a clear manifesto commitment to another referendum in the event of Brexit, yet Dugdale and Davidson are both going to oppose them exercising that mandate in the Parliament.)

But this week seemed to bring about another switch.


The newspapers blared that Theresa May had personally killed the idea, although the only actual quotes to be found in any of the stories came from an unnamed “Downing Street spokesman”. The Unionist side of social media exploded with glee, taking the headlines as a definitive end to the matter.

But then we noticed an odd comment in a Telegraph column by Alan Cochrane:


And in today’s Sunday Times there was another twist:


So, let’s recap all of that. The Tories aren’t going to block a second indyref, except they’re going to oppose it, but they’ve “slapped down” the idea because there’s no mandate for it, although they in fact accept that the SNP do have a mandate for it, but the Scottish Government shouldn’t do it anyway because of opinion polls, but if they do do it then the Tories won’t block it but will try to delay it for years until it’s too late because that’s apparently more democratic or something.

We’re glad that’s all cleared up now.

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  1. 23 10 16 16:56

    All around the houses | speymouth

270 to “All around the houses”

  1. Bob Mack says:

    Mibbees aye, Mibbees naw, Mibbees mibbie.
    It all gets very confusing when you get up in the morning and everybody has changed position onernight——apart from me.

  2. Betty Boop says:

    Och Stu, now ma heid’s spinnin’ tae!

    Unbelievable, except this is sToryland!

  3. One_Scot says:

    Not sure how the Tories can block or slow down IndyRef2, but the fact that they are saying or even suggesting such a move, tells you all you need to know about suffering another 30 years Tory rule, and exactly how you should vote come the referendum.

  4. Jon Drummond says:

    That’s far too much British mince for my Sunday denner…

  5. Garrion says:

    So the un-named senior spokesman-minor functionary source was our beloved and scholarly Mr Tomkins? This should go well.

  6. Proud Cybernat says:

    IndyRef2, as with IndyRef1, is a decision for the people of Scotland and ONLY for the people of Scotland. That includes the date we decide to go to the polls. If WM tries in any way to stall or otherwise undermine the democratic will of the people of Scotland, then I am sure it will be in breach of ineternational law.

    It would be akin to saying, “Yes, you can have your referendum but only on a date of OUR choosing.”

    Which could be never. That is anti-democratic and WM know it and will be called on it. They have NO RIGHT to decide WHEN. We, the people of Scotland, hold that right.

  7. Taranaich says:

    These idiots are running the UK.

  8. Breastplate says:

    A referendum is a precise measurement of the will of the people (barring any interference).

    What fair minded politician wouldn’t want that?
    They should all be voting for it regardless of what party their in, nevermind all their U-turn nonsense.

  9. handclapping says:

    These idiots are running the UK.
    You are giving them too much credit for competence. If they managed to run a bath, we’d probably end up dead of scalding.

  10. Robert Graham says:

    As I said on the previous thread Gordon Wilsons bloody negative comments to the BBC about the timing, over which the SNP Government has no control and by their manifesto commitment have no choice but to carry that commitment through, hasn’t he been following events ? , this kind of junk is probably why he isn’t in a position to influence anything the current Government does .

  11. yesindyref2 says:

    The Scottish Conservatives are in a right pickle, because having made advances in the recent election, their very survival could be at stake if they back the wrong horse.

    Pass the Branstons!

  12. Kevin Evans says:

    I’d love the uk goverment to tell us we can’t have a referendum. That would be the final nail in the coffin of the union. Folk wouldn’t stand for being told what to do. As long as they keep up the pretence that were part of an equal union they can get away with so much. As soon as they try to control us that’s the end so bring it on fools.

  13. frogesque says:

    @yesindyref2 3.30

    Hmm, Branston and popcorn, never tried that…

  14. Socrates MacSporran says:

    BBC Scotland’s sports department has a long list of ex Old Firm talking heads who they know, will never say anything bad about their half of the Bigor Brothers.

    BBC Scotland’s politics department has a long list of ex SNP people, who they now will never say anything positive about Independence.

  15. Douglas says:

    The ‘once in a generation’ meme is about all the Unionists have left.

    It is very threadbare.

    The 2014 vote has been respected by YES voters.

    I think a snappy retort is now needed:

    In 2014 Scotland decided to give the Union one last chance
    The lunatics have now decided to burn the house down.
    We reserve the right to reconsider before it is too late
    Anyone of good will is very welcome to join us, there’s a country to build

    “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?”
    John Maynard Keynes

  16. John McCall says:

    Just to note, Davidson and Mundell saying they will do everything in their power to block indyref2 and saying that they will not block it are not logically inconsistent if nothing in their power to do is able to block indyref2.

    It does indicate a strong element of cognitive dissonance on the parts of Davidson and Mundell though.

  17. John Edgar says:

    The UK government, or regime viewed from north of the Tweed, is in a fankle over many issues, not least Brexit, which they brought upon themselves.
    The Scottories, well, they just go with the flow or ebb from No 10. Irony is that the clarion call to resist any constitutional change within the UK has been scuppered by Brezit. In Brexit, No 10 has no overall veto other than to walk away from the EU with nout, and yet the consequences will be sure dah sath. By calling into question from dahn sath a constitutional change, it makes Indyref2 up here easier. That means for us remaining in the EU and gaining independence in Europe as the UK had before Brexit.

  18. Free Scotland says:

    I seem to remember before a date had been set for the 2014 referendum that the unionists were always goading the SNP and trying to provoke them into setting a date and urging them to “get on with it.” How things have changed!

    Now, all the talk is about “respecting the result” and “once in a generation” and “here we go again” etc. etc.

    Do they think we will all just fall in behind the UKIP-ers and racist brexiteers, suck it up and accept that it’s our fate to be walked all over by Westminster thugs in suits, while they bleed us dry to ensure their own survival? Let’s send them homeward tae think again.

  19. bobajock says:

    The fear. And only fear left.

    Never has there been a stronger case.

  20. Arbroath1320 says:

    My definition of all unionist parties:

    Well it was that or this:

    Come to think about it think I’ll opt for option number 2. ?

  21. yesindyref2 says:

    As far as Davidson and Mundell are concerned, they are Westminster’s sacrifical village idiots. I used to have a good opinion of Davidson, but she’s really lost the plot.

  22. Jim Thomson says:

    @Tarranaich 3:16pm

    You’ve mis-spelled ruining again.

  23. Betty Boop says:

    @ Taranaich, 3:16pm

    These idiots are running the UK.

    No, they’re not!

    At this point, we should be able to say “that’s worrying”, but, would we worry more if they were?

    Conundrum, eh?

    BTW, nice to catch up with you at the Armadillo. 🙂

  24. Betty Boop says:

    @ yesindyref2, 3:52pm

    I used to have a good opinion of Davidson…

    You did?

    Never suffered from that illusion myself and confirmed that she was thoroughly duplicitous during one of her closed meetings during the campaign. Those poor (although,mostly, actually quite well off) party saps sat their mesmerised, but, confused.

    The last question was from a man who had made a point of previously telling everyone how he understood the economy because he was an accountant or something. When she told them at the end to go out and campaign to stay in the union, he asked, “but, what will we say to them…?” She didn’t answer his question either.

  25. HandandShrimp says:

    Yoons doing what Yoons do – desperately thinking of ways to stem the tide against independence.

    Brexit has discombobulated their arguments though and consequently they are all over the place. Kezia’s position is a shocker though. No matter how bad things might get in the UK she would not consider independence. I think that smacks of lack of imagination regarding how bad things could get in the UK with a far right swing in the style of Government.

    With the SNP and Greens voting for a referendum and possibly some Labour MSPs abstaining the notion that there is no mandate in Holyrood looks at best wishful thinking. Ruth and the loyal Willie only have 36 seats. I am sure people like James Kelly will cling onto their loyalist position to the bitter death but the Nays might be lucky to get 50 or so votes. Hard to see how Ruth can do much blocking with that.

  26. Orri says:

    All the talk about current members of the EU not wanting to deal with encouraging the break up of their own territory by allowing Scotland in is avoided if it’s moved to an arena where not only can they claim that we did so legally but in addition they couldn’t prevent it due to the voting system for a treaty change not allowing them a veto.

    Also depending on the general mood in the EU if a guarantee that we’d be a member was enough to tip the balance what better revenge on the rUK that helping in its break up. Spain and France get to keep their powder dry as far as their own independence minded areas are concerned and might even symbolically abstain if assured we’d become members without a vote.

  27. Proud Cybernat says:

    “The SNP are not respecting the result of IndyRef1.”

    “Did the Unionists respect ‘The Vow’?”

    No, they did not. And, by so doing, they have brought IndyRef2 upon themselves. And, if need be, IndyRef3, IndyRef4 … you get the picture. And so it will be, until such time as the Unionists learn that when they make a VOW, they must RESPECT THAT VOW.

  28. Dan Huil says:

    Whether its Scotland or the EU, britnat Westminster hasn’t a clue

  29. John Edgar says:

    May be, mebbe et al.
    If one takes the Torukipper point to its logical logical conclusion, Brexit means Brexit means out!
    Ergo no direct access to the single market. No halfway set up.
    Out means out. May be May is just waiting to invoke Article 50 and offer no renegotiations, in other words just leave, Udi style. And the UK will rise like the phoenix from the ashes; note, this often used mythological figure and symbol does not indicate how long it was in its ashen state before it arose before it supposedly soared.
    If we read the tunes, immigration first means to the EU the other “benefits” cannot be in place.
    It would help one to stay sane if all speculation ceased and we just awaited for the Invocation of Article 50 and watched.
    I am all for those in charge failing when they get it wrong.
    UK arrogance dahn sath is going to end in tears.

  30. David Mooney says:

    Personally I hope Westminster do try to block or delay Indyref2. It would create a political and constitutional shitstorm that would make Independence inevitable. Which it is anyway – but the following would be another way of achieving it.

    Firstly all 56 Westminster MPs could resign on mass. Leaving Scotland with no political representation other than Fluffy. Liar and Moron.

    This would provoke the necessity of 56 By-elections in Scotland. All the current SNP MPs would have to do is, stand on a manifesto explicitly declaring Scotland would become a Independent country if a majority of SNP MPs where elected to parliament. After all Thatcher said as much in the 1980s and it would be a damn sight easier to achieve than win a referendum.

    It’s not UDI, but I believe it would be a legitimate and “democratic” way of achieving Independence. It would be highly hypocritical of the UK government to cry foul because of the unfairness of first past the post elections. After all they got elected using it. So let’s use their own corrupt system against them.

    Just my tupence worth.

  31. Robert Graham says:

    Gordon Brewer trying unsuccessfully to influence Patrick Harvey to withdraw support for independence in order to accomplish various Green aims, I am glad Harvey stood his ground and confirmed his party’s support for independence, we had as usual the demonising of RT and their intention to set up in Edinburgh, the prospect of a News organisation being available to people here as opposed to the local BBC propaganda unit should be welcomed, The whole Sunday politics program falls into more of the same Unionist pap designed to be absorbed slowly drip drip a daily background noise that we can’t counter. And with friends like Gordon Wilson who needs bloody enemies .

  32. Hamish100 says:

    handclapping says:
    23 October, 2016 at 3:24 pm
    These idiots are running the UK.
    You are giving them too much credit for competence. If they managed to run a bath, we’d probably end up dead of scalding

    Now your assuming they know what a plug is!!

  33. Willie says:

    Good article, but the colonialists will do what they want. Voting counts for nothing, democracy is a sham. But we know that.

  34. Robert Louis says:

    Nicola should go see Theresa the unelected Prime minister tomorrow, and just tell her to GTF, then walk out and call the referendum, whilst still in Downing street. London and Westminster can go bleep themselves. They want brexit, fine, Scotland doesn’t. End of discussion.

    Oh, and she can tell them to stick their section 30 order where the sun doesn’t shine, since we have a clear democratic mandate for a referendum – unless they plan on sending the English soldiers and tanks up here again, like they did in Glasgow in 1919 (Scottish members of the ‘british’ army were locked in their barracks).

    Sorry, just getting a bit P****d off with the patronising, insulting manner of how Westminster addresses our people and our democratically elected First Minister

  35. Robert Louis says:

    Gordon Wilson. Just so many questions.

  36. The Man in the Jar says:

    All very well and good but I think we need to hear Willie Rennie’s position on this.

    Ha Ha you thought I was being serious there didnt you. 😀

  37. James Sneddon says:

    It’s a whole new learning process watching the nominal folks in charge running around like headless chickens aided by a MSM. Once Indyref2 gets underway it will be interesting to see who takes charge of the whole ‘Better Together …again’ campaign. ‘Scotland in Union;? too many loose cannonballs in that lot (apart from a lack of numeracy skills), Lab/Tory/Libbers can’t see them partly due to lack of resources in Scotland and bussing them up won’t work as most of them voted Remain, the reality dissonance will knock the enthusiasm out of them. So even on that basis I’d be curious who’ll save the day for May and Betty. In the meantime I’m wetting myself to see what FUBAR incidents the PM and her three stooges will do next. Good to meet some of you at ‘Unleash the Unicorn’ rally in Edinburgh on Saturday and put faces to the names,

  38. Andrew McLean says:

    Apologies for being off topic so soon,

    Try it!

  39. gus1940 says:

    It is generally accepted that a failed REF2 while not destroying The SNP would almost certainly put Independence on the shelf for many years.

    That being the case if the Bad Guys think they would win again one would surely think that they would be desperate for REF2 to take place asap.

    However, given their current antics attacking the prospect of REF2 taking place it should be obvious to any sentient being that they know that we would win and and are in consequence terrified of the result.

    From his most recent remarks it looks as if Henry McLeish is getting very close to jumping the fence.

    Just as that ludicrous Alberto Costa MP must be regarded as a not very secret unconscious SNP weapon so are Gordon Wilson and Jim Sillars doing similar work for the Bad Guys.

    Every time Wilson and Sillars open their mouths their comments are leapt upon with glee by unionist politicians and their media fan club – I just wish the pair of them would shut up and stay shut up.

  40. Robert Louis says:

    yesindyref2 at 352pm,

    Aye Ruth Davidson – suffering from ‘vaulting ambition, which o’erleaps itself’, as the English playwright, William Shakespeare might have put it.

  41. yesindyref2 says:


    A lot of guff being put about that Scotland would ahve to spend 2% of GDP to be a member of NATO. Here’s the hard reality straight from, the official NATO website, about defence spending of member countries as a percentage of GDP.

  42. HandandShrimp says:

    Gordon Wilson is similar to many party grandees and former leaders. They tend to sound off and fire the odd wayward shot. It is part of the fun of being retired. Heseltine does it all the time to the Tories as do a variety of ex Labour MPs.

    Gordon has his own views and whilst former leaders will always get an airing they don’t dictate current policy (unless it is UKIP 😉 )

  43. mealer says:

    Alex Rowley says he won’t oppose a second referendum,so I guess that means he’ll abstain.It’ll be interesting to see if he or any other Labour MSPs actually do so come the time.

  44. gus1940 says:

    The selection of talking heads on BBC political programs is getting very interesting.

    We seem to be treated regularly to personnel from The Spectator whose big boss is our old pal Brillo under the ownership of the loathesome Barclays – a nice cosy set-up.

    As for other talking heads incredibly we have recently been treated to spokespersons from those far right wing US organisations The American Enterprise Institute and The Henry Jackson Society as if they were neutral commentators.

    I seem to recall that that well respected triumphantly modest Scottish Socialist Political Dynamo J. Murphy is a member of The H.J. Society.

  45. Robert Peffers says:

    I’ve been saying it for decades and few were listening. The Westminster Establishment assumed, from long before the Treaty of Union, that the kingdom of England had full sovereignty over Scotland and, until recently, many Scots were fooled into believing this to be factually the legal position.

    Historically the English Kings attempted, under the laws of, “Divine Right of Kings”, to take over the entire British Isles and to a large extent they succeeded. Like everyone else since British history was first recorded in writing.

    However, due to their machinations, lying and ignoring the legal facts the chickens are finally well on the way to roosting once more back home.

    These significant facts are now having to be faced and the current batch of lying, conniving and dishonest Westminster Establishment figures find themselves hoist by their predecessors own petards.

    In 1284 the English King, after defeating in battle the last native born Prince of Wales, annexed Wales as part of the Kingdom of England. In 1542 the English King, after defeating the Irish Monarchy in Battle annexed all Ireland by forcing the Crown of Ireland Act.

    However, they had failed to annex Scotland during the Scottish Wars of Independence and, in 1320, the Scots managed to convince the then international authority, (The Pope), That Scotland was not only an independent Kingdom but that her monarchy were NOT sovereign. Now this was a momentous happening in whole of Christendom for all the rest of Christendom were under the legal system of Divine Right and the head of it all was supposedly The one true God in Heaven but on Earth the Pope in Rome.

    The English monarch are the Pope were at loggerheads and the English monarchy were appointing themselves as the head of the church. Only little Scotland, as usual well ahead of the crowd, had the then nearest thing to real democracy.

    This did not prevent the English Kingdom’s machinations and, attempting to gain Scotland they engineered a marriage of convenience in the hope that an English male monarch married to a Scottish female monarch would, under Divine Right, gain the Queen’s kingdom as part of England. This backfired as James VI of Scotland inherited both crowns. Only the legal fact that he was NOT sovereign under Scots law prevented him just tagging the, three country, Kingdom of England onto the Scottish kingdom.

    Now remember that he inherited both crowns in 1603 and it was not until 1688 that England changed their legal system but still, even today, cling to a watered down version of Divine Right as a Constitutional Monarchy. This was due to the English, “Glorious Revolution”, but what that really did was to throw out what England saw as a threat of Scotland taking over England by deposing the monarchy who wore both crowns.

    Thus began the Jacobite uprisings as the still independent Scots refused to accept the independent English parliament’s decision to throw our their monarch and the English still refer to this as a Jacobite rebellion. Yet you cannot rebel against a monarchy not your own.

    That conflict made it essential for the English to force The Treaty of Union but it also proves the point that the only two existing British Kingdoms were in fact still legally equally sovereign Kingdoms and never forget that the English Kingdom was still at war with Scotland at Culloden almost 40 years after the signing on the Treaty of Independence.

    So the United Kingdom is indeed legally a Kingdom and there is absolutely no legal evidence it has ever become a single unified country. The Treaty stipulates several important legal matters that have also been ignored for 310 years come May 1 next year.

    The Union is a two partner United Kingdom and when one partner leaves there can be no United Kingdom left. The Pound Sterling does not belong to England alone. The Bank of England does not belong only to England as it was Nationalised in 1946 by the United Kingdom, not by England alone. Under English law the whole shebang is legally the property of the crown – but that is the shared crowns of the two Kingdoms and not only are they equally sovereign but there is no legal stipulation that band share out of resources should be upon current population statistics.

    Now the hard truths are beginning to dawn upon the Westminster Establishment that they have no legal sovereignty over Scotland unless the legally people of Scotland consent to allow them to have it. They simply do not have a legal right, under English, Scottish and international law, to prevent a sovereign people from doing as they please – provided that sovereign people have a majority.

  46. ronnie anderson says:

    Unchain the Unicorn Holyrood 22nd Oct.

    Many thanks to Heather Bevvy & Michael McCabe for the Wee Black Books ( still in demand Rev) & not forgetting the Wings Staff ( you’s knows as I knows who’s you;s are & Wee Ann Jenkins fae Dundee (ah WoS groupie).

    Many Thanks to the Many Wingers who supported the day. A special mention to the Indycamps Vicky & Dean for the Refreshments.

    All in all another tiring day but worthwhile, but a lot of work needs to be put into Edinburgh to get the People to attend these events.

    Kendomacaroonbar iScot Magazine for allowing us to share you expansive Gizbo ( English Scots having borrowed our wee Gizbo (we might have dented our Vile Cybernat reputation again) & Paul Kavanah sharing a table with us ( ah never even goat ah selfie wie oor famous writer lol) , until the next outing cherio the noo ( you,s never expected me tae sign aff wie toodaloothenoo did ye’s lol.

  47. mike cassidy says:

    Some help, please.

    Exactly what would I have to enter into the Wings search box in order to check on my own past postings?

  48. call me dave says:

    @Robert Peffers

    Excellent again.

    No strong signal wifi for the last 3 hrs missed all the news and sports stuff. 🙁


    Cautious welcome for academic’s view on softening of US view of independence

  49. galamcennalath says:

    If the Tories go for hard Brexit, how is the democratic but contradictory will of Scots to stay in both the UK and EU going to be resolved?

    Simple, by having a 3rd referendum to settle the matter. We will have to make a choice.

    The REAL issue is that Greater Englanders would dearly like to deny Scotland’s right to have made that second decision to stay in the EU.

    Tough! Scotland aspires to be a country where big decisions are made in a democratic manner even if others hate democracy!

    So, as this article highlights, where do Scots’ Unionist parties stand on allowing democracy to take its course? We need to know. It will be make our minds up time soon for everyone.

  50. Dr Jim says:

    @The man in the jar

    I’m in total agreement with you there, it’s vitally important that we all know Willie Rennies stance and opinion on all this
    I for one wouldn’t think of making a move without his good council and advice and as Minister for Fun and ex Condom, I mean Condem, he is unsurpassed in his previous judgements in these matters

    Three cheers for Willie and his big pronouncements

  51. Lenny Hartley says:


  52. Phronesis says:

    A UK wide perspective of Brexit- it is not good news.

    ‘The costs of reduced trade far outweigh the fiscal savings in both scenarios. In cash terms, the cost of Brexit to the average UK household is £850 per year in the optimistic scenario and £1,700 per year in the pessimistic scenario…

    We find that unilateral liberalisation reduces the costs of Brexit by 0.3 percentage points in both scenarios. But the overall effect of Brexit is still negative. The reason that the benefits of such a radical move are small is simple. WTO tariffs are already low, so further reductions do not make much difference. In today’s world, integration is not a matter of lowering tariff rates. It requires policies, such as hammering out regulatory differences in services provision that rely on international agreement and cannot be achieved unilaterally…

    Our model shows that trade with such non-EU countries does indeed rise after Brexit. But the magnitude of these increases is not enough to offset the decline in trade with the EU. Being part of the EU does not restrict UK companies’ ability to trade with the rest of the world, but as our nearest neighbour and the world’s largest market, the EU is the UK’s natural trade partner…
    Even setting aside foreign investment, migration and the dynamic consequences of reduced trade, we estimate the effects of Brexit on trade and the UK’s contribution to the EU budget would be equivalent to a fall in income of between 1.3% and 2.6% (£850 to £1,700 per household per year). And once we include the long-run effects of Brexit on productivity, the decline in income increases to between 6.3% and 9.5% (about £4,200 to £6,400 per household per year)’

    Danny Dorling on the geography of poverty and inequality. Of course Scotland’s deprivation indices are of no relevance to WM, just as Scotland is a democratic inconvenience to be ignored at all costs. But they should be worried- London is storing up problems of its own. UKOK hasn’t eradicated endemic poverty in London.

    That will magnify after hardship Brexit. The money will follow the markets which will no longer be serviced from London. No-one’s interested in the Brexiteer’s economic modelling based on jam and biscuits and no one will be listening as they retreat into their monologic imagination with stories and fables of how great Britain will be.

  53. mike d says:

    David mooney 4.32 pm. This is what I’ve always advocaTed. Better than udi. And lesser chance of being rigged than a referendum.

  54. mike d says:

    Bloody predictive text??

  55. John Jones says:

    I still can’t get my head round brexit, if I go to my gaffer & say I’m quiting, do I then get to say, by the way I still want you to pay for my holidays for the next 3 years, I think the answer will start & finish with an F. What’s the difference with the EU?
    Does Maggie May really expect to get any different result?

  56. ScottishPsyche says:

    UKIP down in the dirt again with their leadership contest. Raheem Kassam seems the ideal candidate.

    The worry with UKIP is not that they might win power. it is the influence they seem to have over Tory policy. Since they are adamant the Barnett formula should end and this seems popular with voters in rUK, will be see this adopted soon by Theresa May?

    Paul Nuttall and Take, Take, Take…

  57. CmonIndy says:

    Robert Peffers @ 5.19pm
    Do you mind if I share your wonderful history piece through Facebook. More people need to know this. It tends to explain the Westminster and Tory convulsions.

  58. Onwards says:

    Douglas says:
    23 October, 2016 at 3:39 pm

    The ‘once in a generation’ meme is about all the Unionists have left.

    It is very threadbare.

    The 2014 vote has been respected by YES voters.

    I think a snappy retort is now needed:

    In 2014 Scotland decided to give the Union one last chance
    The lunatics have now decided to burn the house down.


    We now have a new generation anyway, at least politically.

    We are in the post-Brexit generation.

    It’s pretty reasonable to have another chance to consider Scotland’s constitutional future in vastly changed circumstances.

    And it wouldn’t be acceptable for Westminster to try and delay a second referendum, if the timing depends on Scotland’s ability to negotiate continued seamless membership of the EU.

  59. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi mike cassidy.

    Go to the advanced search at Google:-

    In the box that says “this exact word or phrase:”, enter your name as used on WOS.

    Scroll down the page and in the box where it says “site or domain:”, enter,

    then hit your return/enter key. You should get a page of hits. You then find your name on each page by pressing Command AND F (on Macs) or Control AND F (Windows) to see each occurrence of your name.

  60. Brian says:

    I think Cochrane means “tortuous”.

  61. geeo says:

    Right….for 60 seconds i am pretending to be a unionist….3..2…1

    HOLY FUCK !!!

    What a mind fuck !!!!!!!!
    You know, something odd struck me when i was a 60-second unionist.

    I was outraged over indyref2, to the extent where i kept telling Yessers that “nobody wants one ffs….polls back this up….etc”.

    Then it struck me, if nobody wants one and Yes cannot win anyway, according to the polls, why on earth would i not be encouraging those pesky Yessers to bloody well HAVE ONE so when they lose, the subject will be shut down for a very long time ??

    Just as Kezia and ruthie were about to tell me, my 60 seconds as a unionist were up….!

    Being a unionist is hard work, even for 60 seconds…..

  62. Dorothy Devine says:

    Andre McClean , I really enjoyed flattening the capital thank you so much for the opportunity!

  63. mr thms says:

    I’ve noticed that the UK government will trigger Article 50 on the same date as the transitional period for the new procedure for qualified majority voting expires.

    The new procedure for qualified majority voting was introduced on the 1st November 2014.

    Is it a coincidence that the new procedure was introduced within weeks of the referendum on Scottish independence?

    The white paper “Scotland’s Future’ mentions that Scotland could be fast-tracked under Article 48. But it requires an amendment to the original EU treaty to allow internal enlargement. So can the amendment to Article 48 be made by qualified majority voting? If it can, it suggests a plan and an expected outcome..

    Why else choose that date for triggering of Article 50?

    Another connection with March. In the white paper, it gives Scottish Independence Day as the 24th March 2016.

  64. clipper says:

    “So let’s recap all of that. The Tories aren’t going to block a second indyref, except they’re going to oppose it, but they’ve “slapped down” the idea because there’s no mandate for it, although they in fact accept that they DO have a mandate for it, but the Scottish Government shouldn’t do it anyway because of opinion polls, but if they do do it then the Tories won’t block it but will try to delay it for years until it’s too late because that’s apparently more democratic or something.

    We’re glad that’s all cleared up now.”

    FFS Rev near pissed myself laughing at that, then I remembered that these clowns are actually taken seriously by some.

    Help neutralise the unionist mind control machine –

  65. geeo says:

    @proud cybernat.

    “Did the unionists respect the ‘vow'”.

    No offence intended as i enjoy your writings, but the ‘vow’ is a massive red herring for me.

    The thing that was NOT RESPECTED was not the ‘vow’, it was the Referendum Question itself.

    More power via the ‘vow’ or ANY other means, was absolutely NOT on the ballot paper, Cameron demanded that the SNP should not be rewarded if they lost the referendum.

    NO vote meant the status quo

    Yes meant independence.

    Why would anyone respect the result when they (unionists) could not even manage to respect the fucking QUESTION ?

  66. yesindyref2 says:

    @mr thms
    As far as I could see back in Indy Ref 1, the EU Councils can decide to take pretty well any issue on QMV rather than a unanimous vote, as long as they agree to that. Which leaves the interesting situation that say Spain could agree to QMV on the actual decision of the “small” amendment of having Scotland keep our UK membership in our own right, and then during the QMV vote, vote against to keep the image that it’s against separatists. But they’d be outvoted on the QMV. A dodge in other words. No idea if that’s actually practical.

  67. Clootie says:

    …I’m away to the dark room for a wee lie down.
    ma heids hurtin’ trying to make sense of this!

  68. Hamish100 says:

    geeo says:

    Nae harm to you geeo

    If you want folk to read what you write then less off the f…. words etc is the way to go. Most folk I know just ignore such comments.

    Just saying..

  69. Roland Smith says:

    Gordon Wilsons main point that sees eminently sensible to me is we cant afford to lose the next referendum. We probably will lose it if we go into it without a clear currency plan and a straw man of a possible independent Scotland budget that has nothing to do with Gers.Also avoid getting into these spurious £400 pounds better off, £1600 pounds worse off debates, they go nowhere.
    If it was up to me a list taken from the Rev of all the lies used in the last campaign would be published far and wide as well.
    I would also analyse why the Leave campaign was successful, as lets face it, it faced a Project Fear that was on steroids. Whether you agree with their decision or not the bottom line is it was a successful campaign that had the effective message of “Take back control” behind it.
    If the Rev was up for it I would happily contribute to an opinion poll of Yes voters who voted Leave to see how they would vote in Indyref2, and a separate poll of No voters to see how they would vote in Indyref2 with the assumption that we were remaining in the EU if Independent.

  70. Robert Peffers says:

    @Orri says: 23 October, 2016 at 4:19 pm:

    “All the talk about current members of the EU not wanting to deal with encouraging the break up of their own territory by allowing Scotland in is avoided if it’s moved to an arena where not only can they claim that we did so legally but in addition they couldn’t prevent it due to the voting system for a treaty change not allowing them a veto.

    There actually is no need to even do that, Orri. All it need take is to get it through to the other EU countries and states is that legally the United Kingdom is not actually a legal country in the first place.

    It is exactly what its title describes it as: And that is factually a unitedKINGDOM, that is composed of only two equally sovereign Kingdoms. These two are the Kingdom of England, which is so very anti-European and has within it three distinct countries.

    While the pro-European Kingdom of Scotland is not only a Kingdom in its own right but is an individual country too. What’s more is as much an equally sovereign partner kingdom in the Union as is the three country Kingdom of England.

    That is not too hard for the other European nations to take on-board and run with.

  71. Breastplate says:

    Can someone advocating that Scotland is only allowed one more indyref point me to the FUCKING rule that says that because I can’t seem to find it?
    Although I haven’t looked in the box where they keep all the frogs.

    FFS, I mean it really nips my nuts when people say we can only have an indyref once in a blue moon or nevermore.
    Did I say FFS already?

  72. geeo says:

    No mention of the content then…but read the swear word…!

    My most profound, or maybe, profane, apologies to the language police….


  73. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Louis says: 23 October, 2016 at 4:53 pm:
    … Sorry, just getting a bit P****d off with the patronising, insulting manner of how Westminster addresses our people and our democratically elected First Minister.”

    Only just getting pissed off now, Robert Louis? You must be an exceptionally tolerant person, I’m in my 80th year and I’ve been pissed off by it for all but 11 of those 80 years.

  74. Glamaig says:

    I’ve heard people say that… but if Indyref2 fails, I’ll still vote in elections for a party that advocates independence. If enough people do the same, say 50% 0f people or more, well guess what, there will be an Indyref3 🙂

  75. Gary45% says:

    Hello folks,
    Been away on travels for a few weeks, and have had political conversations with the same group of people for the last 4 8 weeks in total.
    Trying to explain Barnett, Trident, local voting systems etc.
    Just wound up one of them, a Saf Easter by telling him that Scotland gets free gas and electricity for 2.5 days a week because we have a colder/ wetter climate, and it is subsidised by our English cousins, he even fell for Scotland gets free holidays in the sun because of the lack of vitamin D, of course paid for by the English.
    Guess what, after a total of 8 weeks of discussion and producing paper facts( thanks to WOS) that was the only things that stuck in his thick little “we subsidise Scotland head.” were the bollocks that I told him.
    Oh Aye they were all Brexiteers and moaned about the drop in the pound.
    Happy Days.
    Indy Ref 2 Can’t come quick enough.

  76. ScottishPsyche says:


    That annoys me as well. As long as a party with independence in its manifesto gains a mandate, why should there be limit?

    I think though, the two and you are done scenario is based on what happened in Quebec and how after coming so close the support fell away. Also I am not sure but I think economically Quebec suffered after the last Referendum.

    However, that does not mean it is predestined that this happens in Scotland. The situations are very different although the NO side always try to draw parallels.

  77. Papadox says:

    When the people of Scotland have their eyes opened and the establishment tell us we cannot have another referendum until they have stripped Scotland of all its assets. Then we WILL have a referendum! With or without londiniums approval, or we walk away. They should wake up and smell the coffee before they make moves which there is no going back from. LONDINIUM —– THINK!!!

    Not what I want, but I ain’t getting back in my cupboard.

  78. Macart says:

    Go away for the weekend and poop hits the proverbial. 😮

    Anyroads, its all coming to a head nicely. As for the likes of Mr Tomkins? Heh! On tae plums springs to mind.

    The Tories can’t stop what is coming and Kezia and Labour have, (if ever there was any doubt), done exactly as predicted. The only difference being, I reckon this time round they’ll play the support act rather than take the lead.

    This time round it’ll be a progressive Scottish electorate versus the Tory unionist establishment. In reality, what it always has been really.

  79. Jon Drummond says:

    Re geeo

    “No mention of the content then…but read the swear word…!”

    With you totally, Geeo, my friend. I, too, share your passion and within the context of your post – a wee sweary word or two – deary me how precious do you have to be to be offended?

    Maybe Hamish 100’s mum forgot to put the Dettol in his bathwater before school tomorrow.

  80. K1 says:

    Hamish 100?

    Who made you the ‘swear’ police? Why don’t you just fuck off with this constant telling others that you don’t like them using the word ‘fuck’.

    I’d like tae see ye trying that on wi the Rev? Naw? Didnae think so…give it a fucking rest…I read people’s comments irrespective of whether they have ‘swear’ words, just like I listen to what people say irrespective of whether they throw in a quick fuck or two?

    We’ve had this out before, if ‘you’ don’t like the comment then scroll pass…you are not in charge of this blog. Cut it out!

  81. K1 says:

    (obvs not an ‘actual’ quck fuck… 😉 )

  82. Thepnr says:

    Indyref2 is on, I’m sure we can all agree on that.

    Right now it’s just a war of words on twitter or Wings and that which is written in the UK papers that pretend to be Scottish.

    It’s skirmishing at best, until Nicola gets a vote on a new referendum in Holyrood and announces a date it is all gesturing and politicking.

    I think it is very funny, this phony war that yes are winning by the way. How could they not be with the state of the Tories over Brexit.

    No need to rush into battle, the erseholes will bloe temselves out before we even get started, that much is obvious. Leave the talking heads to talk themselves into a coma, then we will sneek up behind them LOL.

    Meantime if you can support the fight against the state broadcaster.

    Exposing the BBC for the liars they are might just be the best thing supporters of Independence could ever do to further their cause.

    No we don’t back down.

  83. galamcennalath says:


    Only people who don’t want iScotland say referendums can’t be repeated regularly.

    What drives referendums are Scottish governments with an electoral mandate and a good reason to hold one.

    If IndyRef2 fails (appendages crossed it doesn’t) then a future pro Indy majority can call another.

    That is, given the current setup! A hard nose English nationalist government has all sorts of powers – they could pass a new Act of Union, they could disband Holyrood, they could pass legislation banning cessation!

    How we Scots would react to that is a different question. A nasty WM regime might feel emboldened by an Indyref2 failure.

    IMO if it is in the best interests of Scotland to call an IndyRef then the Scottish Government has an obligation to so. What happens should it fail, should not be a consideration.

  84. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ geeo

    “NO vote meant the status quo

    Yes meant independence.

    Why would anyone respect the result when they (unionists) could not even manage to respect the fucking QUESTION ?”

    Yes, that’s true. They neither respected the ballot paper question or their late implied ammendment to the question i.e. that a NO victory effectively meant “Let’s call it Devo-Max” (C) Jackie Bird, BBC) / Near Federalism etc.

    So, the NO side disrespected the referendum on TWO counts. And they have the audacity to girn about the SNP not respecting the result. The NO side really don’t do irony, do they?

    As I said – they have only THEMSELVES to blame for the demand for a rematch. And if they disrespect the question again and make more offers they do not subsequently keep (assuming they win – doubtful), then IndyRef3 will follow in short order.

    And until such time as the Unionists learn to play by the rules and can win a convincing and decisive IndyRef by FAIR MEANS then we will CONTINUE to demand referenda to settle this question.

    The yoons know what they have to do. Problem is – they won’t do it, they won’t play fair. Because they KNOW they will lose a fair fight (as they nearly did last time).

  85. Breastplate says:

    Glamaig and ScottishPsyche,
    I believe this whole “only one more indyref” argument belongs to the unionists and has no place on the Yes side.
    The Yoons should be made aware that we won’t stop fighting for independence and that it is inevitable.
    When they realise this, we won’t need any more indyrefs

  86. Thepnr says:

    Regarding the use of sweary words. Well I think we can all agree that sweary words are used in everyday language in Scotland’s pubs, canteens, offices and even boardrooms.

    Who defined a word to be a swear word anyway? Fucked if I know.

    It is just language, and Scots do use it every day. Not as an insult or as abuse necessarily but just as a way of expressing what they want to say.

    Often a “sweary” word is the right word to use in that circumstance. Read “A Chancer” by James Kelman the main character swears often. Mainly though when it is appropriate to do so.

  87. Ruby says:

    geeo says:
    23 October, 2016 at 6:32 pm

    Right….for 60 seconds i am pretending to be a unionist….3..2…1

    HOLY FUCK !!!

    What a mind fuck !!!!!!!!

    Ruby replies

    I tried it too!

    My heed’s still spinning!

    During my 60secs I thought why not have a 2nd IndyRef that would give us a chance to win & to win well.

    We could convince 80-90% (perhaps even 100%) of the voters to vote NO and that would put an end to all the divisions & talk of future referendums.

    We could kill talk of independence stone dead!

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @CmonIndy says: 23 October, 2016 at 6:24 pm:

    “Do you mind if I share your wonderful history piece through Facebook. More people need to know this. It tends to explain the Westminster and Tory convulsions”

    Och! CmonIndy, It’s not copyrighted and, if we had a better Scottish education service everybody would know the real history.

    The entire History as taught in schools is nothing like the truth but when explained simply it becomes quite plain what was going on.

    For example not many people realise that the so called, “Jacobite Rebellion”, could in no way be a rebellion as the two kingdoms were still independent kingdoms between 1603 and the Treaty of Union in 1706/7/

    After this dawns it follows that as they were still independent the Scots could not be rebelling against the King & Queen of still independent Kingdom of England.

    That leads us to just why the English needed a treaty in the first place and when it is learned that William Patterson was a London Scot and has instigated the Bank of England to bail out the English treasury and he was buddies with the English spy, Daniel Defoe, and both were almost certainly recruited by Robert Harley, the English spymaster while Paterson was in Edinburgh setting up the Darien Expedition and Defoe was regularly reporting back to London while working hard within the Scottish parliamentarians with bribes, threats and blackmail.

    Once a start is made in seeing the underhand things the whole thing soon begins to fall into place. You can use anything I say however you wish – as I said it is not copyright and is no more that simple logic.

  89. woosie says:

    I see Mundell getting a brief mention in matters Scotch by WM. Bet he’s satisfied with that morsel.

    As he thinks that Scotland doesn’t actually exist, what is he the Secretary of State for? Narnia? Could be, he took long enough to come out of the wardrobe!

    Mind you he can be forgiven for his confusion. Anyone working below the wall is constantly drip-fed the notion that Leeds is ” The North”. If we’re beyond “North” what are we but irrelevant?

    As I and many others for some time keep proposing, if we’re so unimportant, end it now!

  90. gus1940 at 5.02

    These points you make need reinforcing because there is a significant number of people being taken in by the “we must wait till the time is right ” bullshit.

    It should be obvious to all intelligent people that if the unionists are braying about “once in generation” and “you have no mandate” that they know that we are in a very strong position to go right now. If they are trying to persuade us to wait it is proof that time for us to go (otherwise they would be encouraging us to go for it confident that they would beat us again). They know we will win.

    Wait for what I would ask our fainthearts? Wait till Westminster gets its house in order from its present chaotic shambles? Wait till the Tories sort themselves out and can concentrate again on holding into Scotland? Wait till Labour revives?
    We will never have a more open door and a better chance.

    As for Gordon Wilson. He never was particularly political astute. He was fortunate to lead the SNP when oil was discovered but really provided no other legacy. He isn’t even astute enough to understand that he is being used against us. Ex leaders are ex leaders and the protocol is that they don’t interfere with the direction of present leaders except in support. That is if they are smart enough.

  91. DerekM says:

    Change the record yoons heard this one many times before yoons be crazy still using 2012 yoon battle plan next they will be telling us the only way we can stay in the EU is to vote no for herr buffalo whisperer and the loyalist britnat no surrender honest we are not tories dont mention brexit party.

    I know how they are going to block it in parliament if big Jackson lies down at the door nobody will be able to get in,can we rush an open air legislation law for parliament through just in case,there wis nae pies left in greggs tories stock piling on their master plan i reckon.

  92. mr thms says:

    yesindyref2 @ 7:02pm

    Another thing that was in the white paper was the transitional arrangements for the transfer of the Social security system after independence. I think it mentions 10 years. The Scotland Act 2016 transfers a big chunk of the benefits system which will take 6 years to complete. At the same time as the talks on the funding for this cost was taking place with the Scottish Government and the Treasury, David Cameron was having talks in Brussels over his ‘reformed’ EU. Part of his talks involved changes to the social security system. The UK and the EU reached an agreement that he could impose his reforms over a period of seven years. Is it coincidence the Treasury agreeing to fund the transition period in Scotland, and the agreement on the social security changes that David Cameron wanted for his reformed EU occurred within three day of each other?

  93. Ruby says:

    Ruth needs ‘Big T’ not to block a 2nd referendum so that she can fullfill the promise she made during the Holyrood elections when she was riding buffalos, motorbikes,tanks and generally everything she could get her leg over while pretending not to be a Tory.

    Am I correct in thinking that Ruth calls Madame Thérèse ‘Big T’ It’s a strange name to give her boss it sounds like something you would buy in the Anne Summers shop. I wonder if Ruth Davidson has a ‘Big T’ in her bedside cabinet? 🙂

  94. Ruby says:

    geeo says:
    23 October, 2016 at 6:53 pm

    @proud cybernat.

    “Did the unionists respect the ‘vow’”.

    No offence intended as i enjoy your writings, but the ‘vow’ is a massive red herring for me.

    The thing that was NOT RESPECTED was not the ‘vow’, it was the Referendum Question itself.

    More power via the ‘vow’ or ANY other means, was absolutely NOT on the ballot paper, Cameron demanded that the SNP should not be rewarded if they lost the referendum.

    NO vote meant the status quo

    Yes meant independence.

    Why would anyone respect the result when they (unionists) could not even manage to respect the fucking QUESTION ?

    Ruby replies

    Absolutely correct! How many times did Unionist say anything other than a straightforward Yes/No question would ‘Muddy the Waters’?

    Google Devo Max ‘Muddy the Waters’ to find out!

  95. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “What’s more is as much an equally sovereign partner kingdom in the Union as is the three country Kingdom of England.”

    Yes, Scotland has been “equally sovereign” for the last 300 years and continues to be.

    Saint Theresa of England and Wales dare not Brexit because the “equally sovereign partner” didn’t vote to Brexit.

    For more than three hundred years the “equally sovereign partner” has been sending all her revenues to subsidise England.

    What a shame that we haven’t been able to exercise our “equal sovereignty” for more than 300 years.

  96. mike cassidy says:

    Brian Doonethon 6.25

    Ta for that.

    Managed to track down that quote I posted from the updated edition of Joe Pike’s “Project Fear”.

    This was written before the EU referendum.

    A surprising number of pro-UK politicians and advisers I spoke to said something along the lines of: ‘There’s going to be a second Scottish referendum and we’ll lose it’

    This is why there has been such yoonionist vehemence against another indyref since they won in 2014.

    They knew back then that SAVING the union was a once in a generation event.

    Now its our turn.

  97. dakk says:

    Ruby 8.34

    ‘I wonder if Ruth Davidson has a ‘Big T’ in her bedside cabinet? ‘

    A plastic pizzle I would imagine.


  98. Hamish100 says:

    The pn
    Often a “sweary” word is the right word to use in that circumstance.

    That’s correct. But swearing for the sake of not having the forethought of something better to write is a waste of space. Speaking personally of course there seems to be more space than thought in some posts which is a pity as it detracts from what the author may be trying to say. On the other hand it could just be a load of “pish” so eff n and c’en is just camouflage. That’s why we don’t replicate spanner and others. Well I don’t! Each to their own.

  99. Hamish100 says:

    Sorry k1 at 756

    Didn’t see your post above.

    Thanks you proved my point extremely well.

  100. Thepnr says:


    I’m not dissing you point of view. Of course you are entitled to it and it is neither right nor wrong.

    My point and the reason that I wrote the last post is that I have often used “sweary” words, sometimes whole and sometimes disguised. Like fecked, so have others.

    Believe me when I tell you that I have no wish to upset first time visitors or even regulars. My point is Scots do use this language every day. I would guess you may too.

    We are all here to forward the cause of Independence, I’m certain some will agree with your point of view just as I am certain some will agree with mine.

    It is not an issue as far as winning Independence goes. Better Together 🙂

  101. North chiel says:

    Some interesting posts again tonight . Could be that we are ahead in the polls especially as the
    London media are telling us ” no majority for indyref2 & no mandate “. . I find it interesting that Hammond has been linked recently with a ” soft Brexit” and the press have recently linked him to cabinet disagreements etc. ( convienent Tory controlled press leaks for possible future reference?)
    As I recall , if Cameron had lost the 2014 referendum , Hammond was quoted by
    the Tory press as being a possible successor and in fact he was further quoted to lead the negotiations with the Scottish government”. My view is that the Tory government ‘s real nightmare ( and they know it), is Scottish Independence rather than any Brexit outcome with the potential loss of significant assets rather than loss of trade via Brexit.
    If Teresa May runs into severe problems with her ” hard Brexit ” position , with the pressure being applied simoultaneously from both the EU and Edinburgh ( via Indyref 2 ) , then it is within the realms of possibility that if as the months pass the possibility of Independence looks increasingly likely , then a ” new Tory cabal ” will replace TM and the ” hard brexiteers” , with Hammond at the helm ( no chance of them calling a general election after recent lib dem bye election revival ). This would be the ” last throw of the dice” to save their precious union, and Hammond would be instructed by the Tory establishment
    to concede to Scottish gov .whatever is required to save the UK union. Just a theory ? Democracy in action ( pragmatic) Tory style.

  102. Proud Cybernat says:

    “…Hammond would be instructed by the Tory establishment
    to concede to Scottish gov .whatever is required to save the UK union. Just a theory ? Democracy in action ( pragmatic) Tory style.”

    Even if it were written in stone, in triplicate and in blood, few now in Scotland would believe anything these Tory scumbags say. Because they’d say ANYTHING to get their way.

    Fool me once and all that. They had their chance in IndyRef1 to honour their ‘belated’ pledge. They didn’t and, so far as I am concerned, they can now take a flying f*@# to themselves.

    A Tory word is their bond – until you realise you’ve been conned.

  103. North chiel says:

    Agreed ” Proud cybernat” , however that won’t stop them from ” deviousness to the bitter end.”

  104. Macart says:

    Just catching up on posts and news articles over the past couple of days.

    Seems as though the meeja and their luvvies are coming for the yes movement and the new media big time.

    Its going to get worse.

    They’re going to poke, prod, troll, bait and and use whatever shakes loose to make a case. There’s only one way to handle it.

    Laugh at them and walk away. Focus on our message, our aspirations and folks needs. Do not give them an inch, a thoughtless word or even the time of day. Starve their media and their drones (activists, luvvies and trolls).

    Leave the replies to our new media to take apart. We’ve got the sites and the talent, so IMO let them do their job. They’re good at it. See the fella above the line. 😉

    If folk are pissed about something then I’d say nurse it and focus it. Use it to motivate your face to face conversations, your stalls, meetings and leafleting. Whatever happens, anything online or public must not become a weapon for the opposition. Look at the past couple of posts on this site to see how that works.

    If this goes the way we hope, then this second chance is too precious to waste.

  105. uno mas says:

    Here´s another article from El Pais that might interest you.

    The story is ostensibly about the discovery of a sunken WW1 U boat off the coast of Wigtonshire by a cable laying ship belonging to the UK division of Iberdrola, Scottish Power (and doesn´t that just twist your nipple!) however what will be of much more interest to us independistas is contained in the final paragraph.

  106. Socrate says:

    A couple of observations on today’s papers.

    Scotland on Sunday had a story: “May appeals for a mature relationship across the border”.

    My reading of this is: “Will you Sweaties stop messing us about, do what we tell you and support a hard Brexit”.

    I also noticed, on The Herald’s website, they are, below the actual Herald copy, highlighting some particularly offensive “SNP Bad” stories.

    Has it never occured to the Westminster government, the reason so-many refugees, both political and economic try so hard to get to the UK is – English is the most-widely-spoken second language world-wide.

    They leave Afghanistan, Syrian and Iraq, or North and West Africa with a working knowledge of English, so they want to go to England, rather than France, Germany, italy or Spain.

  107. mr thms says:

    #uno mas @ 10:08

    A very good find…

    Details about the Scotland – England marine power cable can be found here..

  108. Smallaxe says:

    K1,Thepnr et al:

    You just managed to get away with the sweary words,but be careful.For fucks sake don’t mention peace,love,or refer to Nana as Sweetheart.We can’t have some people thinking that we are a compassionate war hating nation!

    Peace Always

  109. Dr Jim says:

    Are we at the beginning of the end of the Scottish Parliament if we should lose this referendum
    This current crop of Tories who will be in total control of everything for maybe 20 years have mangaged to dismantle every shred of opposition to themselves by absorbing UKIP and aiding the assisted dying of the Labour party, there are no Liberal Democrats because there are none credible and the Greens will always be an irrelevance in England so who’s left to rock the Tory boat, only us and they’re already cutting down our MPs in Scotland and redrawing the boundaries in such a way in England so Labour will probably never stand a chance at all…ever

    I would suggest the future without a win in Scotland is “Blight” there will be nothing to stop them doing whatever they like after Brexit because we will have no court to appeal to except a British court who by that time may just refuse to recognise Scotlands existence as anything other than, not even a region but a district

    Opposition parties in Scotland wont lift a finger or even likely raise an eyebrow to help Dugdale will go right along with anything she’s told and Davidson will go off and ride and English buffalo
    Willie Rennie will retire in protest and Patrick Harvie will call it undemocratic and then vanish into the distance on his bike

    Getting rid of Holyrood saves the Scottish economy a few quid so they’ll tell the punters they’ll spend on the NHS they might even put it on the side of a bus and Scotland will shrug it’s shoulders and say “Ach it wiz bound tae happen ane day they Tories are right Bastirts bit whit kin ye dae”

    Lord Mundell will say it was all the fault of the SNP for being insurrectionist separatists who were secretly planning and Irish style uprising and you know what, Scotland will accept it again
    Does this mean I have no faith in my fellow Scots, well, the apathetic bunch that is, (all folk on Wings excepted naturally, but you all know that)

    I’m already practising my fake bending over and forelock touching..yer Lordship sir

  110. ian murray says:

    The RuK think that all the EU members are going to play nice with England ?
    Right now countries are figuring out what is best for their economy trying to find a way to get that Japanese car plant inside their borders plus plus plus.Nobody in the EU likes England and their continuing superior attitude is rubbing EU countries even more the wrong way
    I see the banks are making plans to leave

  111. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Is a big T. Perhaps a Russian tank. As in T45 T72 etc. Perhaps she has the one with the auto loader.

  112. Glamaig says:

    uno mas at 10:08

    Interesting, along with the conclusion here

    that the current capacity for Scotland-England transfer is 3.5GW (it plateaus at 3.5GW presently) suggests we are soon going to be exporting even more power.

  113. Still Positive. says:

    See Lord Darling thinks Nicola’s bluffing. Polls haven’t shifted since 2014 – aye right.

    Trying all sorts of different ways to deny what is obvious – we are in the lead, or very close to it.

    Hell mend them.

  114. Cactus says:

    Be fuckin’ passionate about something..

    Try Scotland.

  115. ian murray says:

    Some effective billboards coming soon

    We knew we didn’t want Brexit

    The Banks have moved to the EU
    The Car Plants have moved to the EU
    Vote Yes for Scotland to move to the EU

  116. t nicholson says:

    agree with cybernat and geeo [and others].the VOW …vast new powers, was not on the ballot matters not,if it was a BMW or deep fried mars bar, it was NOT ON THE BALLOT PAPER,IT WAS A BRIBE!!!that is surely not acceptable in any democratic voting system.take this to the UK SUPREME COURT…THE EU. COURT OF JUSTICE the UN ,anybody.a bribe is a bribe is a bribe.

  117. cearc says:

    Great cartoon,

    Nature notes – The Mayfly (Buzzoffajohnnyforeigna)

  118. Cactus says:

    Am watching the episode of Family Guy on ITV2HD on a guest tv the noo..

    Peter and Lois are like Trump et Clinton.

  119. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T but interesting from Irish Times. Serious talk on enticing financial companies to Irish Republic,

    Now off to bed with man-flu.

  120. Thepnr says:

    @ian murray

    1. An Independent Scotland will be out of the EU.

    2. Your Banks will move to England.

    3. Mobile phones will cost more as your out of the EU.


    5. You cannot use the pound lololololol

    6. The UK’s broad shoulders will protect you, too wee, too poor and too stupid Scotland. Honest I’m not lying.

    Scotland says GIRFUY.

  121. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Robert Kerr –

    Cheers for that link.

    Get well soon mister!

  122. Cactus says:

    The best thing about our Yes indy ref 2 is that we get to party three times..

    1. Celebrate our yesindyref2 result.
    2. Celebrate our coming destined independence date.
    3. Celebrate our continuing place in the EC.

    Three times XXX

  123. Robert Louis says:

    Breastplate at 725pm,

    Very well said. I have been making this point many times. Where is the ‘rule’ that says, ‘only two referendums on independence, ever’. Is this some kind of UN law? Or is it perhaps just rubbish made up by unionists? Sadly, many in the pro indy camp seem to have bought into such rubbish.

    It is odd, considering we are all taught as kids in Scotland of the apocryphal tale, of King Robert the Bruce, who when he was losing against the English invading army, saw a spider in a cave, repeatedly trying over and over again to climb the wall, and eventually succeeding. The motto of the story being, ‘if at first you don’t succeed, try, try, and try again. Bruce, so inspired by the tenacity of the spider, then went on to fight again, and finally defeat the English invaders at Bannockburn.

    So the notion that the next referendum if we don’t win will ‘kill independence’, is the same kind of utter rubbish, that made Labour believe that if the first referendum was lost, it would kill independence and the SNP stone dead. It didn’t, it made us stronger. Much, much stronger.

    Many in the indy camp need to understand, that you will never win a battle, when it is you yourself who places imaginary obstacles in your way. Just Like Bruce’s spider, if at first we don’t succeed, we try, try and try again.

  124. Cactus says:

    EC.. EU.. Tis all the same to you.

    BIG MOVES in small steps.

  125. Kevin Evans says:

    Was thinking about the depopulation of Scotland over the years – with Scotland having 32% of the uk land mass the 8.3% population of 65,000,000 seems small so I looked into it.

    The first records that could be deemed as reliable was 1750. Scotlands population was 1,265,000 while England’s was around 6,000,000. So not long after the act of union Scotland was 18%ish of the uk population. The union is slowly cutting the Scottish population,

  126. Robert Louis says:

    Just a wee reminder, this excellent project just needs a wee bit more of a push. Plan to place billboards exposing the blatantly propagandist BBC in Scotland. Worth a punt.

  127. K1 says:

    Hamish 100?

    I’d love to see you ‘attack’ the Rev wi this pish. Which you wouldn’t do?

    You have an issue about the word fuck being used, it doesn’t matter it’s ‘relevance’ to you. You have referred to this as ‘profanity’. You keep telling us all that it isn’t ‘needed’ and you are certainly stating that those who use swear words have a less that adequate vocabulary. This is such bullshit Hamish. And you are a snob.

    You clearly have not gotten beyond that stage of development wherein you’re a good boy if you don’t swear. Now stop projecting ‘your’ issues with use of adult language on to those of us who comment here.

    It’s none of ‘your’ business how others utilise everyday language. You may not like it, that’s fine, but it’s not your ‘function’ on Wings to police others people’s language.

    Is that clearer for you? (Oh you’re a ‘snob’ because your decision to respond to me in the manner that you did, reveals your snobbery) 😉

    Opine away Hamish but don’t expect to ‘manipulate’ others in to feeling ‘bad’ because they use a swear word. That’s ‘your’ problem.

  128. Ruby says:

    uno mas

    Western link cable

    Muy intersante!

  129. K1 says:

    Oh and another wee point Hamish afore I leave this subject.

    Are you aware that it is ‘you’ who is singularly focused on the ‘swear’ words that others may use on the one or possibly two occasions throughout the entirety of their comment?

    You are literally ‘zooming in’ on those words. Go and have a wee think about that Hamish, why is it that you are chiding the person for a swear word and pointedly invalidating the essence of what they have contributed by admonishing them resulting in a ‘diminishing’ of their input on these threads?

    That’s the ‘issue’ here not swearing.

  130. Big Jock says:

    By the way is ex Snp failed leader Gordon Wilson the new Jim Sillars. I love how the BBC are fawning over his unremarkable guff about not holding a referendum. How he knows better than Nicola how to win a strategy etc.

    Sorry but when you retire you don’t get to tell the new boss how to run the show!

  131. Graeme Doig says:


    Dinnae forget losing the most superist great british tv programmes that we cannae live withoot.

    Talkin of which. What about the great Scottlish league cup tv coverage. Not a sniff of a highlight.

    Minimum pricing of alcohol may be one way of tackling a nation of alcoholics but I tell you what a wee bit self respect and belief through independence might work even better.

  132. Ruby says:

    Vambomarbeleye says:
    23 October, 2016 at 10:37 pm

    Is a big T. Perhaps a Russian tank. As in T45 T72 etc. Perhaps she has the one with the auto loader.

    Ruby replies


    It could be a Russian tank! Where would she park it?

    While searching Google for info on Big Ts I came across this story which I thought was funny!

    Even a harmless game of fetch with your dog can go spectacularly wrong! 🙂

  133. heedtracker says:

    geeo says:
    23 October, 2016 at 6:32 pm
    Right….for 60 seconds i am pretending to be a unionist….3..2…1

    BBC r4 were in Northern Ireland tonight putting a thing together that didn’t make much sense. Hard borders, Troubles might start again, But they had on Remain vote who kept saying “we’re like Scotland, merely a region of the greater English nation state, so we just have to live with it, don’t we?”

    The greater English nation state’s Scotland and Northern Ireland region, works quite well for what they did with the Vow shyste alone.

  134. heedtracker says:

    Even a harmless game of fetch with your dog can go spectacularly wrong!

    Ouch! But that’s not that big, if you’re frae Aberdeen:D

  135. Still Positive. says:

    Hope things go well for oor Nicola later today in London.

    I would like to think that Teresa May has come back from the EU with her tail between her legs – but I wouldn’t hold my breath on that.

    To Nicola – we have your back.

    Goodnight all.

  136. Chic McGregor says:

    TMITJ & Dr Jim
    Just for yous:

  137. I think we had better get it understood that when we win the referendum it is unlikely to be by 60/40 and we would be very unwise to even imagine we should wait till we get that sort of likelihood’

    With the huge forces of the UK establishment controlling a majority of the media a voting majority is our aim and no more in a referendum. And the sooner the better while the UK is in constitutional confusion.

  138. Chic McGregor says:

    TMITJ & Dr Jim

    Embarrassing oops.

    Url had run on to the next track. 🙁

    Should have been:

  139. Dr Jim says:

    Remember folks, tellys on tomorrow for some fun 24 hour news
    on SKY
    I’m just waiting to see number tens door being kicked open from the inside by a wee tartan high heel and a grin as wide as the Clyde

    Nicola Sturgeon be like a fistful of Euros

    I’ve just noticed I don’t have a Euro tab on my keyboard
    Whit kinda shit is that?

  140. Robert J. Sutherland says:


    I’m with you on this one. Hesitating too long could throw away this crucial opportunity. Public opinion is already close despite the media doing their utmost to prop up a tottering Union, and what we’ve typically tended to overlook is that there has long been a majority in Scotland who believe that independence is coming sooner or later. We just have to convince enough of those people who voted NO last time out of a lingering doubt that the time has now come. The slow-mo crashathon that is Brexit plus all the vile BT lies from the last time should help do it.

    The UK Gov is hard pressed enough dealing with the enormous and far-reaching internal consequences of Brexit, let alone dealing with a possible agreement with the 27 other EU member states, to have anything much left to counter Scottish indy. The UK Gov seem to be in denial about pretty much everything right now, but maybe when the cold light of day begins to dawn, if Nicola can successfully call the Tories’ bluff over “no mandate” and give the UKGov a hint or two about a possible accommodation over issues of concern (like Trident), they might – just might – even fold without too much resistance and call it not worth a candle to fight. I don’t think it would cause any great political upset in England+Wales at least, given their current mentality.

    I do worry though at this new “delay indy” tactic. At best it’s an attempt to muddle through the present difficulties until they can turn their full attention back again onto stopping us. At worst it’s just a dog-in-manger attempt to drag us out of the EU before indy in the hope that it makes us more dependent on them, unprotected by any alliance. I hope Nicola et al can get the EU to cover our backs on that ploy, if it’s tried.

    Anyway, all the best to the FM for her foray later today into the (mangy) lion’s den. She’s not alone.

  141. geeo says:

    “If” Nicola can successfully call their bluff over “no mandate”.
    Robert J Sutherland…Hardly a difficult bluff to call now, is it?

    It is unlikely oor Nic will be ‘giving’ them anything other than sleepless nights and nassive headaches.

    “Right ye hackett bint, here are Scotland’s terms…”

  142. Sandy says:

    A bit of advice to K1 & Hamish 100. Stick to the thread/s, not OT disagreements.
    K1: Fuck off to twitter.
    Hamish 100: Kindly move to twitter.

  143. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm – € – Alt + 0128. Never knew that before.

    Onyways, today’s probably the day the Union ends. So long and can we have our fish back please? And we’ll just have those chips off the shoulders you keep talking about.

    Pass the salt and sauce.

  144. call me dave says:

    Labour calls time on long serving councillors in North Lanarkshire

    url looks funny? hope it’s OK.

  145. yesindyref2 says:

    I updated my NATO article to put in current annual cost for 2016 – estimate for Scotland at 1/12th population share of the UK total = £15.2 million, for the direct funding according to the agreed cost-sharing formula which is by GNI, not GDP. I also put in a little bit about “open door” accession.

    Common funding arrangements are used to finance NATO’s principal budgets: the civil budget (NATO HQ running costs), the military budget (costs of the integrated Command Structure) and the NATO Security Investment Programme (military capabilities).

    As always “facts” are accompanied by the appropriate offical link. Opinions are my own!

  146. yesindyref2 says:

    Good grief, I just found out that that 2% of GDP target for NATO members was within A DECADE from the summit in Wales in 2014. We really do need to know our stuff to squash the misinformation out there. Starting with us!

  147. Ken500 says:

    Unelected Unionists will not be deciding Scotland’s future. The people of Scotland will. F Scotland want to stay in the EU, it will. Cut Trident. It will be going with Brexit. Stop paying loan repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. Stop taxing the Oil & Gas sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs. Tax Gas at 40% and import untaxed fracked Gas from the US. Stop tax evasion. Whisky companies etc evade tax.

    Scotland could have had a £300Billion Oil Fund and full employment.

    NI (2million pop) raises £28Billion in taxes and gets (50%) £14Billion more = £42Billion. . Norwegian level of funding.

    The Tories are trying to destroy the world economy.

  148. Ken500 says:

    The Tories can apologise for Thatcher. They committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. They are not a legitimate Gov.

  149. Stoker says:

    K1 wrote:

    ..those who use swear words have a less that adequate vocabulary.

    Furr fuck sake K1, it’s fuckin’ *than* and not *that*.
    Please use words in their proper fuckin context! 😉

    In other news – It’s being widely reported this morning that Dippy Dugsale, when asked what cereal she’d like for breakfast, changed her mind no less than 6 times in the space of 30-seconds. Mmm, Rice Krispies or Co Co Pops? Tough call!

    Now for some serious news – News channels this morning reporting that Theresa May will offer leaders from Scotland, Wales and NI the opportunity to “feed into” her Brexit strategy in attempt to involve other “regional” leaders.

    See, that right there, yous just don’t get it, do you! We are not a region, we are a Country and we no longer want to have the latest in a very long line of obnoxiously arrogant twats lording it over us. We’re sick of cereal and bread crumbs for breakfast when our financial pantry is bursting at the seems.

    Didn’t catch her full name and job title last night but on the BBC’ Paper Review with Martine Coxswell at 11:30pm, some reviewer named Lucy stated that Nicola Sturgeon should just tell Theresa May that she doesn’t want anything to do with her, or very similar words along those lines. Ah nearly fainted! 🙂

  150. Les Wilson says:

    Here is the link showing the trade figures between Scotland and rUK (2013 figures)

    Compiled by the BBC, it shows just why no hard border is feasible. To do so, with the current financial mess in the UK, would further sink profits made from Scotland and cost many thousands of jobs in rUK.

    Also bear in mind this is the BBC, and figures could be more than they have compiled. Bottom line is we buy substantially more from them than they do us.

    Here is the link which should be archived, less it disappears as many other links have.

  151. yesindyref2 says:

    @Les Wilson
    Very Union biased though: “It’s worth noting that it doesn’t matter that Scotland/Rest of the UK (rUK) trade is not balanced. What matters is that each country has a broad, long-term, trade balance with all of its trading partners combined, or that it’s able to fund a deficit.

    But it does matter if we’re Independent. It actually improves the rUK balance of trade – quite important from the point of view of their currency and their credit agency ratings. So basically the rUK would not want to lose that trade.

  152. Les Wilson says:

    For those who are not sure how to archive articles ( like me)
    There is an easy way to do it with Firefox, they have an add on called “Awsome Sreenshot” this will copy and hold for you a whole page or part of a page.

    Very easy to use and could be very useful for some, in order to quickly hold copies for you.
    Hope it could be helpful for some.

  153. Les Wilson says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, indeed so.
    I have emailed the link to BFS, and asked if the could do a prominent article around it. The UK never talks about this, only what we do with them. So I think this is important to shoot that fox now, so to speak as it will be pushed to the hilt inthe future, just as it was before.

  154. yesindyref2 says:

    That institutional bias by the way was very common with everything that came out of the BBC, thinktanks, independent institutes, defence, and even a lot of academic stuff. They were so busy looking at how Scotland could survive without being in the UK, they never even thought, genuinely I think, how much difference it would make to the UK losing Scotland and becoming the rUK.

    NIESR went some way to do that when they worked out what the rUK debt to GDP ratio would be “in all cases Scotland would have a lower debt to GDP ratio than the rUK”, but even then they stopped short of following that thought through.

    I think much of that bias wasn’t deliberate, just ignorant.

  155. yesindyref2 says:

    @Les Wilson
    Well, I did happen to write a small article about it a few days back, taking figures from ScotGov (and then where possible UK Gov).

    I’m cleaning that site up to make it a limited function resource that has facts, links to verify those facts from official sources, and then a little opinion clearly marked as opinion. Then I’ll restructure it a little and have short usable summaries, perhaps one for twitter and one for below the line on forums, on the front page with a link to the full article. That’s the plan! Cleaned it up a bit the last couple of hours, getting rid of old junk.

  156. Ken500 says:

    The EU clamp down on tax evasion will gain Scotland £Billions. EU a Grants gain Scotland £Billions. The UK taxation on Oil and Gas ruins the industry costing £Billions and loses thousands of jobs. Untaxed fracked Fas is being imported from the US. The UK/Scottish Gas sector is taxed at 40%. Scotland sells/exports Oil & Gas to the EU. There were going to be new pipelines for renewables and CCS. Scotland can’t explore Oil & Gas production on the West because of Faslane/Trident.

    Scotland would export pro rata more because it is smaller (pop) than rest of the UK. (pro rata). Scotland has less of a balance of trade deficit than the rest of the UK. Including Oil & Gas would be in surplus. Scotland has always been in surplus. Thatcher secretly and illegally took the Oil revenues and spent them in London S/E. Thatcher left over 3million unemployed and interest rates at 15%.

    If the rest of the UK didn’t take Scottish exports there would be shortages or higher prices and transport costs.

    How will NZ (5 million), Canada (40 million), Australia (25million) replace a 450 million EU market?The EU can negotiate more favourable trade deals with India, US and China. Cut tax evasion by multinationals.

  157. Les Wilson says:

    Here is an instance of links being removed.
    Babcocks look after the nuclear fascilites at Faslane, articles appeared that reported that Westminster had allowed them to lower their insurance in regards of nuclear accidents
    at the site to a max of £100,000.

    Now it is simple conclude any such event could cost millions, nothing like a mere £100k.
    That is disgraceful, what it means is that Scotland would somehow have to cope with any costs over and above the insurance figure.

    I have tried to find the link again and can find no obvious link to it now. maybe some of the clever among us can. I can’t despite no problem in the past.
    This is a betrayal of the highest order and leaves us with a possible disaster.

  158. Ken500 says:

    Any trade figures would have to consider the cost of production – Profit. Cost of production does have benefits but profits are the main benefit. 20% of production? More for multinationals with a monopoly paying no tax. Unfair competition. The only taxes the EU tries to monitor is VAT (25%) and Corp tax (20%) for fair, equal trade purposes.

    The UK personal tax threshold is higher than most (EU) countries. Less tax raised.

  159. Les Wilson says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    Well good housekeepin is always good.
    Hope that works well for you.Your site is good and informative, improvement will obviously help it even more.
    Wish you well with what you are doing.

  160. yesindyref2 says:

    @Les Wilson
    If you have the original URL you could go to Web Archive and see if it’s still there

    Just put the URL into the box, and if it’s there it’ll give you a history. I also use that for “proof”, as once the day has past, a new archive is taken rather than overwriting the old one like does.

  161. Ken500 says:

    Firms operating in the Oil & Gas sector have to have £Millions of insurance liability. It cost BP £Billions of liability in the Environment disaster. BP the worst company in economic history. The Ministry of Defence could be sued. The UK Gov doesn’t enforce Health & Safety Laws. Robert Goodwill, as Transport minister, refused an Inquiry into Helicopter safety caused by H & S rules being broken.

  162. Les Wilson says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    Do not have the link now, posted it on Wings a long time ago, and almost nobody paid attention to it, despite it being very important.

  163. Ken500 says:

    Robert Goodwill is now UK Immigration Minister.

  164. Breeks says:

    Ruthie’s big T is the very big Tea which the UK is selling to China to stave collapse of Post Brexit economy.

    The bad news is all that jam that was meant for Scotland tomorrow has been used to sugar coat the deal for the Chinese.

    I confess I laughed out loud reading that British high tea jam and biscuits was going to save the UK economy post Brexit. The punchline was in the btl comments, “You do know we can’t grow tea here, right?”

    So that’s selling tea they have to import, with jam they promised Scotland, and England takes the biscuit yet again.

    Too surreal to be funny. Pinch me I must be dreaming. These people have nukes. Oh stop it! Enough already!

  165. Les Wilson says:

    Ken500 says:
    Just another instance of how the UK looks after big companies
    interests first.

  166. Les Wilson says:

    Breeks says:
    I know, you could not make it up.

  167. Indyref 2 will be held between October 2018, and March 2019, the day when England and Wales cut of their swollen proboscis to spite their face and march off into the international wilderness flogging ginger snaps and marmalade.
    ‘Hang on a Minute’ Brewer lost it on News Where You Are Sunday politics.
    They dragged on old Tartan Tory Wilson, and Brewer fed him the usual ‘so, hang on a minute, what you are saying is..’ guff, in the hope that old duffers like me would swallow the ‘wait and see for five years or so because the polls don’t indicate that the SNP (That would be the YES Movement ) would win by a 60% plus margin, and T May might ‘accommodate’ Scotland with a Greenland, London City, Nissan Car sweetener’, nonsense.
    Brewer gets more desperate and unhinged by the week.
    His interview with Patrick Harvie had the Greens leader bug eyed with astonishment.
    Brewer argued that the Greens could effectively stop a second Referendum if the SNP don’t play ball on fracking and APD.
    Harvie had to explain the difference between the principle of an immutable promise made in their manifesto, pro Independence, for which many Greens voted, and which Harvie considered an unbreakable pledge,and holding the Government to account over Green issues.
    Of course Brewer is accustomed to interviewing Dugdale, Davidson, Rennie, Curran, Murphy, and a long line of Unionist liars, backstabbers, and glory hunters, who would flip from one vow to the exactly opposing pledge in a heart beat, to save their miserable little skins.
    We will know the full impact of Brexit by the autumn of 2108, as Banks, car companies, investors pack up their troubles in their old kit bags and smile, smile, smile, all the way to Tipperary, or hopefully Stirling, Edinburgh, Inverness, Perth, Aberdeen, Glasgow, even.
    Old ‘Hang On A Minute’ Brewer tries his best for the Unionist cause every chance he gets.
    He grows more and more anxious and quite frankly risible with each broadcast.
    Your Union is toast, Gordon.
    Patrick Harvie is not Dugdale, Davidson, or Rennie.
    He has retained at least some of his dignityand political integrity and actually believes that representing the people who voted for him is more honourable than a shitty wee career in the backwoods of Unionist politics, and broadcast journalism, for that matter.
    We shall not sit on our hands until 2020, or 2021, and have yet another Fabian Constitutional Convention offered but never delivered.
    We go soon, and the preparatory work begins now.
    When England and Wales leave the EU, Scotland must be Self Governing, and possibly N Ireland achieving at least Dominion status, within the EU, but retaining albeit tenuous links with rUK, and the South.
    The thought that we would wait until England ‘takes back control’ before we consider a Referendum is just nonsense.
    Westminster would crush us.
    And Dugdale, Rennie, Davidson, would supervise the bayonetting of the wounded.

  168. Papadox says:

    The establishments state broadcaster (propaganda unit) EBC lead by G Brewer spent yesterday morning trying to undermine the SG meeting with PM May. G Wilson was worked like a ventriloquist dummy, whatever it has to do with Wilson. Then Brewer through a hissy fit with Patric Harvie because he wouldn’t agree with Brewer and the EBCs that they should rethink their independence stance.
    The EBC is certainly part of the states underhand plot to prevent indirect2 until the establishments ducks are all lined up. I believe that the powers that be know much more about the projected indy2 voting intentions and are terrified. Can Londinium afford to loose scotlands wealth, NO IT CANT, and they know it hence the panick.
    Check out G Posonbys web today. We really need to expose the EBCs lies and propaganda.

  169. Smallaxe says:


    Thank you,coffee and Links.

    Peace Always

  170. Thepnr says:

    “I believe that the powers that be know much more about the projected indy2 voting intentions and are terrified.”

    Yup, support for Independence definitely above 50% now thanks to the Tory party conference. Funny that there has not been a poll since the end of that conference.

  171. manandboy says:

    Theresa May and the rest of her Tory Government are becoming more and more desperate as their worst fears turn into certainties. They know now for sure that their ship is going down.

    For our part, the clamour we hear is the groaning and grinding which accompany the sinking of a large ship. But she has been holed below the waterline by the Brexit vote, and now, nothing can save her. Sadly, her captain, Theresa May, deep in denial, is still telling the passengers and crew that the ship can be saved. While the banks leave and the world looks on in mild incredulity.

    All that’s left is for Scotland to get clear, lest we be dragged under, and to plot a new course in our own boat.

  172. manandboy says:

    Bloomberg’s Brexit Bulletin

    “Banks will start moving operations out of the U.K. late this year and early next as they anticipate a hard Brexit. That’s according to Anthony Browne, chief executive officer of the banking lobby group BBA, writing in the Observer newspaper on Sunday.

    International banks’ “hands are quivering over the relocate button,” he wrote. “Many smaller banks plan to start relocations before Christmas; bigger banks are expected to start in the first quarter of next year.”

    Without identifying any banks by name, he said lenders can’t wait until the last minute and have to “plan for the worst,” especially because “public and political debate at the moment is taking us in the wrong direction.”

  173. Ken500 says:

    NI (2million) raises £28Billion in tax revenues. Gets another (50%) £14Billion = £42Billion Norwegian levels of funding. Wales gets similar.

    Scotland raises £54Billion + £15Billion (25%). £13Billion of Westminster mismanagement. Nearly £4Billion of loan repayments on money no borrowed or spent in Scotland. £4Billion lost in Oil & Gas tax revenues. Taxed at 60% to 80% when price had fallen 75%, losing thousands of jobs. £3Billion lost in tax evasion – whisky companies tax evade. No tax on ‘loss leading’ drink – £1Billion. Cut Trident £1Billion = £13Billion.

    Scotland could raise £54Billion + 25% ie £13Billion to invest in the Scottish economy.

  174. DerekM says:


    Rev tell that Matt Forde idiot that if he is going to use an American saying he really should understand what it actually means before using it.

    keep drinking the kool aid is someone who is brainwashed by the state media his reply makes no sense except for trying to look cool and witty and failing miserably on both counts lol

  175. manandboy says:

    Using an android phone to post comments on Wings, in my expanding experience, can seriously damage your health. Well, not really – it just feels like it. Tablets-R-US.

  176. manandboy says:

    I listened to Katherine Austin Fitts last night on YouTube, and even if she’s only half right, then things are much worse than we are being brainwashed to believe.

    It is absolutely right for Scotland to be thinking about its own survival, but we need to be aware that the rest of the human race is very far from being ok – and going in the wrong direction.

    I should find out what Willie Rennie’s advice would be. The UN will want to know.

  177. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Sandy.

    You typed,
    “A bit of advice to K1 & Hamish 100.”

    Why suggest leaving this site to go to Twitter? WOS already has two pages for O/T stuff – ‘off-topic’ and Quarantine. Why give Twitter the traffic?

  178. Nana says:


    Good morning.

    Best of Scottish luck to Nicola and Mike Russell today.

    Have another link

    Half Edinburgh’s Tory group to quit at next year’s elections

  179. manandboy says:

    Speaking ahead of her talks with Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, Welsh counterpart Carwyn Jones and Northern Ireland’s Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness, Mrs May, continuing with her political fantasy, said:
    “The great union between us has been the cornerstone of our prosperity in the past – and it is absolutely vital to our success in the future.
    “The country is facing a negotiation of tremendous importance and it is imperative that the devolved administrations play their part in making it work.”

    Note – The ‘country’ is the UK, in Theresa May speak.
    I think the Schoolmistress might have some difficulty in her meeting today, as I suspect the class may well be a bit disruptive.

  180. louis.b.argyll says:

    manandboy says: 9:25 am
    Using an android phone to post comments on Wings, in my expanding experience, can seriously damage your health..

    It’s why some lurk. More than they should.

  181. One_Scot says:

    It is plainly clear from the pathetic ant-SNP output from the Yoon media, and the desperate wishful rantings from the foaming mouthed Yoons on twitter, the only way the BritNat State can prevent Scottish Independence is by preventing the referendum in the first place.

    I honestly cannot believe any reasonably minded person would wish to continue suffering under this corrupt and damaging union .

  182. Robert Graham says:

    Best of luck today Nicola , Let Mrs May have her say , thank her then tell her to GTF , walkout and their precious Pound will go through the f/n floor within minutes ,taxi for the first Minister of a soon to be Independent Scotland please .
    English governments have a habit of reneging on promises given the Turing bill being the latest dont trust the b/tards.

  183. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Les Wilson says at 7:24 am

    From your link.

    “The most recent Scottish government figures show:

    Scotland sold £50.5bn in goods and services to the rest of the UK in 2013.

    The rest of the UK sold £62.7bn in goods and services to Scotland.”

    Yet Westminster talk of trade tariffs??

    Wonder if this difference of £12.2bn of trade includes Scottish products packaged/distributed from rUK depots??


    “Trade with the rest of the world, to which Scotland sold £21.3bn in goods and services, while importing £21.6bn from abroad.”

    Wonder if this includes Scotish exports from rUK airports and sea ports??

  184. Ruby says:

    The readers of PinkNews not convinced by Nasty Party Press release

    Sam Gyimah: ‘I am sorry that our great nation was blind to a simple fact – that love is love. But I am not sorry for killing off Nicolson’s Bill.’

  185. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    manandboy says at 9:52 am

    “The great union between us has been the cornerstone of our prosperity in the past – and it is absolutely vital to our success in the future”

    From a Westminster perspective Theresa May is correct.

    For England, Scotland and its resources were and still are “the cornerstone of Englands prosperity” and therefore”absolutely vital” for Englands future.

    May and the rest of them are fully aware which of the two Countries in the Union would be ‘Greece without the sun’.

    And it’s not us 🙂

  186. scotspine says:


    So, The Kingdom of England & Wales are raising the prospect of Trade Tariffs or Barriers to trade with a Scotland as an EU member?

    The EU would financially rip the Kingdom of E&W a new one.

  187. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    I fear a dirty Brexit is the most likely outcome given the stance and rhetoric emanating from WM. No agreement reached and the UK either walks away, or is thrown out. Scotland will have jumped ship.

    IMO The second most likely is sanity prevails and Brexit is scrapped. An election would be needed to clear the air as far was will of the people and mandates were concerned.

    The least likely outcome is accepting the deal the EU puts on the table which is likely to be single market in its entirety with freedom of movement and financial contributions.

  188. Ruby says:

    ‘Hundreds of officers and heavy vehicles were brought in and a security cordon put around the camp yesterday to thwart attacks by anarchists, many from Britain, bent on stirring up violence. The French government vowed to deal severely with the “No Borders” militants, who have urged followers to confront the police as they start to evict all inhabitants of the Jungle today and dismantle the sprawling migrant camp.’ Times

    Interesting what the “No Borders’ group are getting up to now!

  189. schrodingers cat says:

    during indyre1, the unionists argued that since the uk was a safe pair of hands, it wasnt up to them to make the case for the union, it was up to us to put forward the case for indy, all 640 pages of it.

    that is no longer the case, it is time we went on the attack, pointing out the dangers of a No vote in indyre2


    Big T plans to bail out the banks again. scotlands deficit will double from £15b to £30b

    (nb, make up any figure you like, the yoons do)

    vote YES or a dogs brexit

    The bill boards should be used to threaten/point out the financial armageddon which awaits the uk, regardless of the indyref2 result.

    we no longer need to justify a yes vote, we need to highlight what a disaster the uk is heading for. focus on the banks, the pension disaster, trident, etc

  190. schrodingers cat says:

    project fear 3 should be our project

  191. Robert Peffers says:

    @Rock says: 23 October, 2016 at 8:56 pm:

    ” … What a shame that we haven’t been able to exercise our “equal sovereignty” for more than 300 years.”

    Aye! Rock, and that shame is not the shame of the people of England nor the shame of the Westminster Establishment.

    That shame sits squarely upon the unionist supporting people of Scotland. These all believe their legal sovereignty as the people of Scotland rests in the hands of a United Kingdom Government who are legally delegated to by the United Kingdom Monarch to exercise the royal person’s, “Divine Right to rule”.

    Yet that Royal person, whether wearing the English or Scottish crown, doesn’t have legal sovereignty over the sovereign people of Scotland. The whole point of sovereignty is that no one has legal power over you unless you delegate your power to them.

    The legal difference between the sovereign Monarchy in England and the legally sovereign people of Scotland is that the English monarchy, in 1688, were legally forced to delegate their sovereignty to Westminster but the sovereign people of Scotland still legally retain their sovereignty.

    Thus Westminster only has the power to exercise Scottish sovereignty for as long as the people of Scotland elect, as their legal delegates, MPs to Westminster.

    That is the English Kingdom’s Monarch’s sovereignty is what is delegated to their Westminster MPs by law. While it is the people of Scotland’s sovereignty that is delegated to Westminster and the people of Scotland’s sovereignty has never been legally delegated to anyone. It is only given to their elected representatives by electing them as MPs.

    What a shame that so many of the people of Scotland cannot properly read and comprehend what they have read, the title, “United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”, plainly describes a Kingdom and kingdoms may, or may not, be countries.

    For example – what is now just an English (and/or United Kingdom), county, “Cumbria”, was once just one of a host of many other small British kingdoms.

  192. heedtracker says:

    Big wodge of coffee time UKOK bollox, rancid The Graun style,

    Acres of Graun bleh built around, “May will on Monday make the offer of a new official forum… “it is imperative that the devolved administrations play their part in making [Brexit negotiations] work”.

    Its fine if youre a Scottish tory, red and blue.

  193. Les Wilson says:

    Good interview just finished on RT with Alex Salmond on “Sophie”
    Try and catch it on repeat at some time over the day.
    Really worth a watch, no hanging back with Alex.

  194. Ruby says:

    Brexit and Northern Ireland

    Did anyone listen to this prog?

  195. mike cassidy says:

    Les Wilson

    You posted about the nuclear accident insurance thing here

    at 9.39

    But with no link, I’m afraid

  196. Ruby says:

    Les Wilson says

    Here is the link which should be archived, less it disappears as many other links have.

    Ruby replies

    BBC article archived

    ‘The same ESRC research points to evidence that trade between Scotland and the world beyond Britain has been constrained by such a close integration into the UK, and it suggests there could be compensatory growth there.’

  197. Les Wilson says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Well it is compiled by the BBC, so take your pick, history tells us it will not be wholly accurate. So likely to still be lower than it should be, real truth or not?
    One thing is relatively sure, the BBC are likely to have made it as Westminster friendly as they could.

  198. Les Wilson says:

    Ruby says:

    That is good Ruby, thanks.

  199. orri says:

    The reason the Pink Times might not buy the conservative attempt at painting their walking out the SNP bill is that, if reports are true, their use of the phrase “under age sex” rather than “paedophilia” highlights exactly the problem they refuse to face. If records are so sloppy that no mention is made of the age of the “victim” or even if they consented then that’s not an excuse to grant a pardon.

    Historically the deliberate confusion between “underage” sex with those that would be considered adults and genuine cases of child abuse has been used to generate misleading statistics supporting a belief that paedophilia is more common in gays than straights. Nice of the current government to address that issue in such a positive way.

    End of the day, even the excuse for talking out rather than amending the bill stinks as an unwillingness to put in the effort required to properly vet and examine on a case by case basis. Obviously that would mean manpower and time which costs money. However if the government do persist in forcing victims of unfair laws to apply individually they risk it costing even more if instead of being shamed into remaining silent those people band together and flood them with appeals.

  200. Les Wilson says:

    mike cassidy says:

    Thanks Mike, dumb I did not include the link, at that time I never thought they would have ” disappeared!

    Trying to recall, I think it was reported in the Herald, as well as others.

    Wings readers are brilliant!

  201. Ruby says:

    What options exist for Scotland’s future relationship with the EU?

    I’m hoping someone with time will watch this and let me know it it’s worth watching.

    I think it might be judging by the question Pete Wishart asks the witnesses:

    Can you complete the sentence Brexit means…………

  202. mike cassidy says:

    Nuclear accident insurance link here.

  203. galamcennalath says:

    “Big international banks are preparing to move some of their operations out of Britain in early 2017 due to the uncertainty over the country’s future relationship with the European Union, a top banking official said.”

    There would seem to be a real possibility that financial institutions will move away from the UK because it is simply deemed unstable, rather than the specific threat of Brexit.

  204. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Isn’t Ruth the Mooth wonderful! I see from the Rev’s Twitter feed, she is trying to turn the Tories talking-out John Nicolson’s bill on Friday to a “SNP Bad” headline.

    That we “shovel-aced lesbian” has no shame. A political party tries to do something for the gay community to which she belongs, and she has a go at them – unbelievable.

    Caring Conservatism in action.

  205. Andrew McLean says:

    Dorothy Devine says:

    Glad you liked it, in this scenario I decided only to target Britain with only 4 weapons, not the 40 expected.
    one each for The Holy Lock, Liverpool, London, and Southampton.

  206. Ruby says:

    Ooops I think I posted the wrong Scottish Affairs committee link. I was looking for the one that is being held today at 10:30

    Can anyone help?

  207. Hamish100 says:


    Holy Loch – just in case there is a Holy Lock somewhere.

  208. Dr Jim says:

    I see we’re getting all the sarcasm and insulting comments in early on our big english news this morning

    But what does Nicola Sturgeon want they say and the answers come piling in “Flexibrex” Hee Hee “Pick n Mix” Hee Hee “Independence threat’s what it’s all about” “Scottish people don’t want it” ” The government knows what she’s up to and it wont work” “currency, oil, huge defecit still all unanswered”

    Those comments all on SKY news this AM, Oh and of course the offer of David Davis phone number

    All this same shit poured out as we supply them with the electicity to keep their lights on and transmit their crap
    through the medium of television that we invented

  209. Dan Huil says:

    Westminster now accusing the SNP of treachery against the so-called united kingdom if the SG continues to hold talks with EU ministers.

  210. Jack Murphy says:

    call me dave said at 3:14 am:-
    “Labour calls time on long serving councillors in North Lanarkshire

    url looks funny? hope it’s OK.’s OK. 🙂
    Same thing happening in Dundee:-
    Courier Archived:-

  211. Breeks says:

    galamcennalath says:
    24 October, 2016 at 10:20 am
    Nana says:

    I fear a dirty Brexit is the most likely outcome given the stance and rhetoric emanating from WM. No agreement reached and the UK either walks away, or is thrown out….


    Yup. I get a baaaad feelin’ about a dirty Brexit.

    Scotland needs to be primed and ready to move very quickly, and decisively too.

    It is a forlorn belief that the ruckus that would inevitably be caused in Scotland being dragged out of Europe currently features in Theresa Mays thinking. All Theresa May is drawing from 2014 is a democratic majority mandate to take Scotland wherever the united UK wants to go.

    Set your emotional aspirations to one side a moment, what Court in any land could come to a different conclusion? Think about it… hard. I know, I know, material change to circumstances… but the UK has the all important 2014 majority, and that means a strong case to submit, and a strong enough case to act on…

    The race is on to get Scotland’s unique and legal sovereignty defined as a robust and clearly defined component of the “United” Kingdom so that it is understood now, not several months down the line when nerves are fraught and tempers are short. We need that fluid understanding to be crystallising now. We must insure that this notion of Scotland’s rekindled ancient sovereignty is a shoe-in option if and when we need to press the button.

    Westminster is already blinking in disbelief and incredulous denial that Europe is indeed going to play hardball, and frankly, I see no prospect whatsoever of such confrontational circumstances lasting for two whole years. I fear it is much more likely that Europe’s hard ball will be met with a UK fast ball, and Brexit might easily become a technical reality very quickly indeed.

    A dirty Brexit could very easily morph into a Dirty Bastard Brexit for Scotland, unless we are prepared and fully committed beforehand. I very much hope Guy Verhofstadgt and Donald Tusk have time in their busy schedules for a crash course in Scottish medieval History.

  212. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Dr Jim says at 11:54 am

    You missed comment by Theresa Villiers

    “Sturgeon would have called an IndyRef by now if she though she would win it, she hasn’t because she knows she would lose”

    No doubt the Express, Mail (et al) will report in big bold letters on their front pages how our FM got ‘slapped’ etc. down by May tomorrow.

  213. galamcennalath says:

    Breeks says:

    A dirty Brexit could very easily morph into a Dirty Bastard Brexit for Scotland, unless we are prepared and fully committed beforehand.


    Perhaps we should all try to make the phrase DIRTY BREXIT our preferred description of extremely hard Brexit.

  214. Les Wilson says:

    mike cassidy says:

    Wow, thanks again Mike, great stuff. Now all we need to do is get people to read it! It is a VERY important issue. Shows Westminster up for what it is, and then some.

  215. crazycat says:

    @ Ruby

    I’m not sure whether you were poking fun, but the “No Borders” group who are in Calais long pre-date the unionists who stole their slogan – I think I remember that they weren’t very happy about this at the time.

  216. Proud Cybernat says:

    Perception is everything.

    Was talking to a very bright women at the weekend. Open-minded sort but cautious. She said she didn’t agree with “nationalism” as she believed it had caused all sorts of problems in the world.

    I explained the the SNP pursued “civic nationalism” and not “ethnic nationalism”. She said, “I’ve never heard of that – what’s civic nationalism?” I explained and it was like someone’s eyes being opened for the first time. “But I always thought the SNP were just nationalists and that was bad. Now I see why you support them.”

    Is that why a good number of people in Scotland won’t ever support the SNP – simply because they do not understand the difference between civic natioalism and ethnic nationalism? By pointing it out it certainly changed my friend’s thinking.

    Just a thought.

  217. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Jack Murphy says at 12:05 pm and call me dave said at 3:14 am

    Looks like BLiS are trying to get rid of their historical liabilities.

    It is a last ditch move to keep their Party at the trough by saying:

    “Aye we know, poor decisions, taxpayers money wasted, corrupt councillors etc. but that was the last lot and we’ve cleared them all out so vote for us”

    Wonder if anyone will be daft enough to believe BLiS has changed?

    Wonder if Aberdeen CC will do the same wi Wullie Young??

  218. call me dave says:

    @Dr Jim

    Aye you said there what we all feel. 🙂

    Shortbread radio suggesting there on the Beattie programme that Nicola is asking for too much!

    Try and make sense of this folks.

    David Torrance:
    Defenders of the Union face new fight with old arguments,

  219. manandboy says:

    End of an era?

    Classic FM have stopped giving the value of sterling on their news bulletins.

    State Control rules.

  220. orri says:

    Obviously I meant, not an excuse not to grant a pardon. It does show how badly the conservatives have screwed the pooch though in how desperate they are to somehow pin the blame on it all being some kind of SNP trick. One can only assume to have paedophiles pardoned.

  221. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Manandboy

    “Classic FM have stopped giving the value of sterling on their news bulletins.

    State Control rules.”

    In exactly the same way they stopped broadcasting Afghanistan casualties during IndyRef1 incase any of them were Scottish soldiers and caused resentment and an Indy backlash.

    Aye–many people do not realise just how much the Establishment are manipulating them by denying them knowledge and feeding them false knowledge.

    Wake up Scotland.

  222. Bob Mack says:

    Over the weekend I had an interesting debate with members of a very very pro union site. (I know,I know). Get this however, the moderator of the site got involved in the discussion too and it got very interesting.
    We discussed the Union and many related topics and I was flabbergasted at the outcome.
    Apparently the Queen is not Sovereign but parliament is ,even in Scotland.
    The Declaration of Arbroath is not legal.
    Ireland was never completely under English.rule
    Wales is a Kingdom.

    It appears the Unionists are as flexible as limbo dancers when their case falls apart.

    A big thanks to Robert Peters by the way.

  223. Dorothy Devine says:

    Hamish 100 – ach! I’ll just blast them all up to be sure!!

  224. call me dave says:


    Alasdair Lamont footie reporter for shortbread has four goes at trashing Gordon Strachan in a Q/A session until Stewart Regan SFA tells him not to be disrepectful….the interview stopped at that point.

    Good old auntie! No agenda 🙂

    Stuck in bed today…I told her I wasn’t well 🙁

  225. Andrew McLean says:

    Dorothy Devine says:12:38 pm
    Hamish 100 – ach! I’ll just blast them all up to be sure!

    If you had the inclination you play with the pentagons computers,

    Just don’t press the red button!

  226. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    First the assumption that May will leave the ESM ….

    “Once Britain leaves the single market and customs union…”

    … then highlighting what should have been done …

    “May could have tried to heal the dangerous wounds of the Brexit vote by pursuing a moderate strategy which kept the UK in the single market”

    … there does seen growing acceptance that May is not interested in staying in the ESM.

    The Scottish Government would appear to have no interest in deals outside the ESM.

    Only one way this can end.

  227. Proud Cybernat says:

    “There has been no real boost for independence post Brexit. Support levels are around where they were after the 2014 referendum.” – Ian Dunt,

    Em – post Brexit? Was I asleep when it happened?

    As soon as it is made clear that the ONLY way Scotland can remain within the EU is through Indy THEN and ONLY THEN will we see an Indy bounce. Right now we do not know if it will be Soft, Hard (likely) or Dirty Brexit. Scots are merely awaiting to see the lie of the land before committing themselves one way or t’other.

    As soon as Hard Brexit becomes clear, watch Indy support sky-rocket.

  228. orri says:

    Decoding Robert Peffers, or at least trying to provide a clearer explanation.

    Scotland is actually one of the original, if not the original, constitutional monarchies. In the sense that if it wasn’t for having a monarch rather than an elected head of state there’d be little to no difference in our current political arrangement than a republic.

    OK so in a republic you get to elect someone to hopefully represent you and the way our PMs go about those things they become millionaires if they weren’t already. Presidential power is even more of a difficulty as some states make the mistake of actually handing them autonomous decision making powers.

    That latter part is where the confusion comes in. In England, as in the vast majority of monarchies, the king held various levels of supreme power. Whilst in Scotland we primitives, at least in the highlands, might have had tribal elders lending our might to our clan chiefs and our warlike nature led to the kind of nonsense seen in Game of Thrones where to be king you had to actually have support from your people those in England simply accepted their king had a right to rule. Excepting times when they went to a civil war, think that meant they stopped for tea and crumpets and were spiffing to each other, but perhaps not. Any way the civilised way as brought over by the Normans was that the king was the high heid yin and generally had enough support from some of his nobles to make sure it stayed that way.

    In Scotland we, admittedly, had something similar but we were honest about it. Hence the Declaration of Arbroath not only constitutes Scotland as being independent but explicitly says that the people, ok so at that time nobles and others, will follow their king only as long as he represents them. In England their equivalent move is the much vaunted Magna Carta which is a list of restrictions on the king. In Scotland the road to democracy has always been inclusive and expanded as the franchise extended to more and more people. In England it’s more of a power grab. If anything, the chain on the royal crest might be round the wrong neck. It’s the lion of England has chained whilst in an sense the unicorn of Scotland has always been so.
    Even though it’s collar is a crown it’s a kind of chained majesty.

    If you’ve lasted this long there’s a reason all this matters. The concept of Royal Prerogative isn’t one that makes much sense in Scotland but in England it’s being abused by Cameron and May as a reason to impose their own way on Westminster. Love him or loath him at least Cameron had some kind of mandate. May on the other hand occasionally dips in to pretending the referendum gives her the right to do as she pleases. However in referring to the RP in regards to her “Government” she quickly makes it clear that she’s abandoned the old misunderstanding as to why Westminster might be sovereign and replaced it with the Government being sovereign. She isn’t simply meaning the ruling party or coalition, she means the ministers of state which happen to be chosen by herself.

    That’s why even though I don’t want A50 triggered I would really love for May to do so without parliamentary approval and cite the usurped authority of the Queen. I’d love for her to mistake how the use of that is meant to take place, as in she advises the Queen who then implements it. I’d love for her to make the fundamental error that even should she get away with all of that she forgets that if she goes down that route any such attempt does not apply to Scotland.

  229. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    As soon as Hard Brexit becomes clear, watch Indy support sky-rocket.

    That is certainly what I believe.

    When the reality of what severe Brexit means, things will shift.

    Also, the anti Indy campaign across politics and the media has never ceased. The pro Indy campaign is slumbering everywhere except among the most politically active like ourselves. When our campaign wakes up fully again, things will change.

    We have so much ammunition to throw at BT2 built up over the last few years. The two sides will offer completely different levels of risk and credibility next time.

    Scotland sits at 70:30 between those who are, or can be, persuaded Indy is our best hope, and those who are BritNats forever.

  230. One_Scot says:

    The BBC News telling us there that Scotland does not want a second Independence referendum.

    That new Charter rule of allowing the BBC to be biased so as to promote and maintain the UK and union seems to in the fully switched on position.

  231. Andrew McLean says:

    “There has been no real boost for independence post Brexit. Support levels are around where they were after the 2014 referendum.” – Ian Dunt,

    Indy 2 hasn’t formally started, Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track yet. Given its starting base this time is at 48% and has at its heart the fact that 62% voted to remain. You’ve gotta ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?” Well, do ya, punk?

  232. One_Scot says:

    So the BBCs Norman Smith stating as fact that Scotland does not want a second Independence referendum. How exactly would he know that. Has he asked every single person in Scotland their opinion.

    He must have, or wise it just looks like is trying to cajole Scotland into believing we don’t want Independence.

    Surely he and the BBC wouldn’t try and do that, would they?

  233. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    As for statements that “Scotland does not want a second Independence referendum”.

    Where is the properly weighted poll, conducted post Conference season which shows this as fact?

    BBC Misreporting Scotland as per usual methinks 🙂

    Any chance of Wings conducting a poll with the question to be the same as that of the IndyRef1 bballot paper, Rev.?

  234. Liz g says:

    Orri @ 1.09
    Like you there’s a part of me that would love to see the Soverenty thing play out.
    But I really doubt that they will let it get that far.
    While I don’t think Alex Salmond would ever have involved the Queen,and would have probably guided anyone else from doing so.
    I am not so sure Nicola Sturgeon feels that protective towards the Monarchy.
    But any demand that the Queen Of Scot’s step up, do her job and protect our Soverenty will have , I think , to come from us.
    Would love to be a fly on the wall when May discovered that it’s only lack of information and the good will of the SNP leaders that stops every Scot from realising that the one’s who can actually demand the Queen intervene are us.
    Not Cameron and now May, none of this the queen doesn’t get involved in politics shit.
    She does if we say she does.
    I know they would never allow it but it wouldn’t do any harm for the Scot’s to understand how THEIR Monarchy actually works.

  235. Macart says:


    Nicola Sturgeon speaking of a sense of frustration amongst the heads of the devolved legislatures during meeting. Still no sense of what Brexit means, but a strong sense that even the UK gov. doesn’t know what Brexit strategy is.

    Also underlining that she respects England and Wales decision. No intention of undermining that same, but Scotland’s decision to remain was also rather conclusive. Also reiterating that her job is to square the circle if possible, but if not… determined to ensure that Scots have a choice.


  236. galamcennalath says:

    “Nicola Sturgeon tells @faisalislam that she knows no more about #Brexit after the meeting than before she went in.”

    May still doesn’t have a clue what to do, it seems!

  237. One_Scot says:

    So it looks like May is just going to bumble her way through until article 50 is triggered, and then it’s gonna be, ‘everyone duck’, as the shit hits the fan.

  238. Jack Murphy says:

    One_Scot said at 1:29 pm:-
    “So the BBCs Norman Smith stating as fact that Scotland does not want a second Independence referendum. How exactly would he know that. Has he asked every single person in Scotland their opinion.”

    Here is part of the National Union of Journalists’ Code of Conduct:-

    “A journalist:
    Strives to ensure that information disseminated is honestly conveyed, accurate and fair.

    Does her/his utmost to correct harmful inaccuracies.

    Differentiates between fact and opinion.”

    Yes,and pigs might fly. 🙁

  239. gus1940 says:

    That report by Norman Smith on the 1pm EBC News was a disgracefully blatant propaganda lie fest.

    Did he get his script from Brillo? It was reminiscent of the cr-p excreted by the youth on the Hendon QT.

    On the subject of Opinion Polls I have said it before but I firmly believe that they are part of a unionist conspiracy whereby the manipulation or perhaps more accurately manufacture of poll results is being used to manipulate public opinion as opposed to the rightful purpose of polls to reflect public opinion.

    I believe that the results of any polls commissioned by political parties,media organisations or any of the self-styled think tanks (in reality unionist front organisations) should be exposed for what they are – unionist propaganda tools.

  240. Hamish100 says:

    Reporting Scotland -lunchtime
    Jackie McBird special

    We are a devolved nation — I always believed Scotland is a nation.

    We have an assembly!! Not a Scots Parliament– nice for Jackie to put us in our place.

    BBC News24 — The £ drop is good for tourism! Who do they call in to confirm this? — The Manager at the Ritz, London. In fairness to the guy he seemed embarrassed ending his free advert for the “world famous afternoon tea” by adding the most of his customers good probably afford a stay at the hotel.

    BBC – LONDONIUM- they can’t help themselves for they know not what they do.

  241. galamcennalath says:

    Brexit prediction ….

    It will become publically clear early in negotiations that the EU will offer a deal involving full European single market access in return for a significantly reduced contribution from the UK.

    The Scottish Government (and perhaps NI Assembly) will say that, under the circumstances across the UK, this is an acceptable outcome.

    The UK Government will reject it.

    The impasse between being those being reasonable and those being unreasonable will focus minds. IndyRef2 will follow.

  242. CameronB Brodie says:

    call me dave
    The angry walnut gets paid for that? Criticising the allegedly weak assertions of indyref1 with his own weak assertions. The wee yoontermensch is a classic case of symbolic violence in action, as he make a not inconsiderable living from “cynical posturing” and renouncing his fellow Scot’s inalienable human rights.

    @ Angry Walnut
    Not heard of the “Right to Development”, or has your mind been completely colonised by English nationalism? Perhaps you simply write what is required to secure your salary? Who knows? Who cares?

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

  243. heedtracker says:

    “A journalist:
    Strives to ensure that information disseminated is honestly conveyed, accurate and fair.

    Journalist in Scotland isn’t a thing now. Its the brainwashing department of and Lady JK Rowling:D

  244. Andrew McLean says:

    From The BBC Colonial office, lest we forget our enemy.

    In the years after World War Two the British government was struggling to maintain its colonial empire in Egypt and beyond; national servicemen were seen as having a crucial role in keeping control.
    By the 1950s males between 17 and 21 had to spend two years in the armed forces, with nearly two million going through national service between 1939 and 1960.
    They were deployed all over the world to protect British economic and strategic interests – and nowhere was more important to these than the Suez Canal Zone.
    “Britain needed Egypt and the Suez very, very badly… it wasn’t going to give it up lightly,” said author and historian Dr Colin Shindler. “The Egyptians were better equipped and had better arms… in a lot of cases you would end up in the middle of a demonstration then somebody would open up with a gun – it was a nasty business,”.
    “We’d lost two or three guys to snipers so when we caught one, as soon as he divulged where the others were, I watched an officer shoot him. He was about 16 I think… but nobody bothered.”
    It was a shocking act to witness but Dr Shindler believes it was a product of the attitudes of the time: “There was a sense of ‘we are white and superior and the ruling race’,” he said.
    “There was the attitude that that’s how we treat the natives… don’t for one minute think that they are your equals because they are not.”
    “I have heard people saying ‘fancy fighting over a body of water’ but we had a perfect right to it and it made me grow up, that’s all I can say.”
    “I certainly didn’t feel that they were all in it together”. The printer’s apprentice from London, who initially got a deferment from national service, went to Egypt when he was 21.
    “Most of the battalion were national service blokes. They were a good bunch of fellas but you were all mixed up with the regulars who got more looked after than us”.
    “It wasn’t noticeable but you’d find yourself bog cleaning a lot.”
    “Coming home felt bloody good – I felt like I’d done something but it was time to start living again.”

    For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Mathew 12.

  245. mike cassidy says:

    Dr Jim 12.18

    This is me whispering very, very quietly –

    Has David Torrance actually activated one or two brain cells before writing an article?

  246. Dr Jim says:

    We can expect a bombardment of Nuclear Dugdales and Exocet Davidsons by teatime on our Shortbread news

    The FM must surely be close to the edge now in attacking and discrediting this pair directly in a serious manner and it’s time for wee Patrick to really step up even though he’s done OK in the last week it’s time to do a bit of hand holding shoulder to shoulder vocal support with the FM to show them this is more than just the FM on her own

    Alex Rowley get your finger out and do the job Kezia’s too frightened to do and bring the others on board publicly
    You know who you are and so do we, so stop being fearties and get on with it

    Henry McLeish time to pick that side you’ve been talking about and the same goes for you Jack McConnell you promised Eck if it ever came to this you’d join his side, now’s yer chance

  247. Thepnr says:

    @call me dave


    “Heroically, Mrs May continues to try and frame this in positive terms, saying in her statement that as we move into “this new chapter” (of what must be a pretty bad book), Scotland and the UK had to “seize the opportunities ahead”, achieving “far more together than we could ever do apart”. I couldn’t even get to the end of that sentence without rolling my eyes.”

    I think David Torrence has just raised a white flag.

  248. Dorothy Devine says:

    Dr Jim do you really believe that McLeish and McConnell will do anything that might affect their income??

  249. galamcennalath says:

    The complete lack of self awareness amongst Unionists is astonishing ..

    Duncan Hothersall – ?@dhothersall

    After #SGPconf it’s tough to see why anyone would vote @scotgp. They are now a single-issue #indyref party, and we already have one of them.

    … and we don’t now have FOUR single-issue UKOK parties? In Scotland, all these four do is chant SNPBad and NaeIndyRef2. Have they any differentiating policies now?

  250. schrodingers cat says:


    thats why ive been badgering stu to pay for a poll

    uptil now, many of the polls in cotland are small sub samples, others of questionable reliability

    we need a trusted source to let us know where we stand.

  251. louis.b.argyll says:

    ..was about to say the same, Torrance has seen the light, or maybe just dragged his imagination out of the shadows.

  252. Ken500 says:

    Sun correspondent reckons Nicola/SNP lost their mandate last Holyrood election. SNP 46% of the vote. Non elected May. Tories 30%. Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. Not a legitimate Gov.

  253. heedtracker says:

    1h ago
    Sturgeon denied claims from No 10 that her proposals could undermine the negotiations.

    Good old Rancid.

  254. CameronB Brodie says:

    To be honest, I didn’t manage to get that far before being distracted by something less pointless. 🙂

  255. Greannach says:

    I heard on the news that Kezia Dugdale had written a letter. I was very impressed.

  256. Dr Jim says:

    Don’t you just love all this “feel free to call us with your ideas on how we should do Brexit” crap

    Like Nicola Sturgeon is going to fall for that and tell them how to do it, Duh!

  257. Dr Jim says:

    @Dorothy Devine

    Of course not Dorothy,
    you’re right in what you say I only leave that for the lurkers who don’t know that’s what both of these guys have said and maybe they’ll go away and look it up

    That’s the hope anyway, however forlorn

  258. Jim Watson says:

    A begging letter from the Tories…it might help to clarify matters…

    Dear Jim,
    Just over two years ago Scotland spoke, loudly and clearly, to remain part of the United Kingdom.
    Despite promising that this would be a “once in a generation” decision, it didn’t take long for the SNP to start campaigning for a second referendum on independence.
    And so, last May, the Scottish people made their voice heard again by voting for a strong opposition that would stand up to the SNP and get them to focus on the issues that matter: jobs, education and our public services.
    But that’s not what Nicola Sturgeon has in mind. Just a few weeks ago the First Minister announced plans to publish an Independence Referendum Bill and has suggested that another referendum could be held as early as 2018.
    The Scottish people don’t want another independence referendum, Jim. They just want a Government that gets on with the day job and delivers on the things that matter.
    By donating to our campaign today, you will be investing in a party that is unequivocal in its support for a strong, United Kingdom – a party that is determined to provide the strong opposition that Scotland needs and deserves.
    So please, donate to our campaign today and together let’s make Scotland better for everyone.
    Thank you for your support.
    Ruth Davidson
    Leader of the Opposition – Scottish Conservatives

  259. I have said before the opinion polls are a complete farce they are only held to fool the gullable they never tell you how many people they asked or where they asked them I mean if I stood outside of Ibrox when rangers were playing at home and asked would you like to see a united Ireland I would probably get a 100percent no vote and then I could present this implying it was the opinion of all of Scotland the whole thing is a fraud they should be made to tell how many peoples opinion they asked if they said saya1000 they should be told that in no way represents 50odd million people in Scotland the polls should be made illegal

  260. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave and otherse
    Yes, getting interesting, it’s possible Settle is the only rock-bottomed unionist left. Ironically at times in the past he’s been the straightest reporting one. But in fairness a lot is down to editorial, what they decide to cover or ignore. So for instance so far no report from the Sturgeon side of the JMC.

  261. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “@Rock says: 23 October, 2016 at 8:56 pm:

    ” … What a shame that we haven’t been able to exercise our “equal sovereignty” for more than 300 years.”

    Aye! Rock, and that shame is not the shame of the people of England nor the shame of the Westminster Establishment.

    That shame sits squarely upon the unionist supporting people of Scotland. These all believe their legal sovereignty as the people of Scotland rests in the hands of a United Kingdom Government”

    Unless you dispute the result, the “unionist supporting people of Scotland” voted by a majority in September 2014 to let Westminster keep “their legal sovereignty”.

    Shame that no messiah has appeared in Scotland in the last 300 years to explain to the “too stupid” plebs about their “sovereignty”.

    As it stands, a Scottish dog has infinitely more “sovereignty” than a Scot.

  262. Frazerio says:

    I’m sick of this. Digest these figures.

    BBC gives Scottish football clubs average £64k each pa
    (£10.6m to SPFL over 4 years, 42 clubs)
    BBC gives English Prem clubs average £3.4m each pa
    (£204m to EPL over 3 years, 20 clubs)
    BBC pays Gary Lineker £1.8m pa

    Re-read those figures. Get them absolutely clear in your head.

    To me, any sane person would find such imbalances utterly unacceptable. They are so ridiculous. Show me just one example where Scottish interests get such an imbalanced share of something over English counterparts.

    Yet folk still seem to not want to rock the sinking boat when a clear and obvious life raft is patiently idling.

    I am now of the belief* that Scottish independence is too mahoosively important not to properly discuss out loud. I feel that to be polite, not hurt peoples illogical feelings and not point out the thievery facilitated by an impressively biased media is not an option (sorry for coming so late to this position for those who have been here longer, but I’m here now at least).

    The Scottish electorate are against Trident, against leaving the EU, against unionist parties, yet we are spending xillions on more useless weapons of mass destruction, being taken out of the EU against our twice-clearly-expressed will to stay in and are run by unionist parties from Westminster (including the Lords, try explaining that travesty to foreigners), the main party which we clearly dont vote for (1 MP out of 59), all because the English electorate think otherwise. As WGD put it, a Scotsman, an Englishman and a Northern Irishman walk into a European Bar, but they all have to leave because the Englishman says so. Thats how Westminster works. The Scottish electorate and the English electorate are so clearly different, and the numbers imbalance at Westminster is so stark. And yet…

    If the BBC told the truth for 1 week, we’d be independent in 1 week. Serious.

    * ‘belief’ is the wrong word, my views arent based in flimsy hope, I am ‘factually convinced’. Not a single valid pro-union reason, not one I’ve heard. What is wrong with people? What will it take?

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