The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland

A reminder of the obvious

Posted on October 24, 2016 by

From the annual report into the state of the UK, published by Deloitte:


It really is remarkable how often that has to be explained to stupid people.

Print Friendly, PDF & Email

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 24 10 16 16:57

    A reminder of the obvious | speymouth

137 to “A reminder of the obvious”

  1. CmonIndy says:

    It can’t be true because it is inconvenient.

  2. Robert Graham says:

    And the chances of this being prominent on the BBC nay f/n chance Guaranteed

  3. Robert Graham says:

    Time for a collective piss off Treesa all together now.

  4. HandandShrimp says:

    It is just about all they have left as the ever more reactionary Government of May takes the UK off in directions few in Scotland want to travel.

    The argument for independence has never been starker or more pressing. Those of a Unionist stripe will cling to what little they have. The cry of “No matter how shit the UK gets and independent Scotland would be shit x infinity plus 1.

  5. heedtracker says:

    It really is remarkable how often that has to be explained to stupid people.

    Calling Kevin Hague, calling Kevin Hague and or Colin Rippey too.

  6. Desimond says:

    Okay, for one last time..

    This Scotland is Gers!
    That Scotland is far away!

  7. Arbroath1320 says:

    Well there’s a wee shockaroonie. ?

    Who knew that the annual GERS thingymabob only worked on data with Scotland being part of the U.K.? ?

    I mean with the constant flow of “Scotland has £15 Billion Black Hole it can not go independent” shouts from BBC/SKY/MSM then surely someone, anyone, from at least ONE of these organisations would have figured this wee unknown factette out by now! Apparently not! ?

    Never mind I think I know where to find one or possible two people even who HAVE figured this out and allegedly claim that an independent Scotland would not have £15 Billion deficit and would also do a lot of expenditure thingys differently as well. I won’t name and shame them but they are out and about on this internettery webby thingy. ?

  8. Wulls says:

    Wowser. Who knew GERS included things like our share of Trident that we don’t want.
    Hold the front page.

  9. heedtracker says:

    Its a comprehensive report, but Deloitte’s one of the biggest accountancy firms in the world. So it will never see the light of BBC Scotland day, just toryboy yoonster pet food salesman get on their shows.

    “In 2014, the independence referendum accelerated further devolution to Scotland.

    “Two years later, the EU referendum has marked a second inflection point in Scotland’s relationship with the UK. While the constitutional extent of any changes remains to be seen, Scottish Government policy certainly continues to diverge from the rest of the UK in its approach to public spending and public sector reform.

    Scotland stood out in the EU referendum result as the UK’s most europhile nation.”

    We’re really just an uppity region of greater England, at present.

  10. galamcennalath says:

    Looks like Deloitte hasn’t been nobbled yet. No one has yet suggested the right hymn sheet.

  11. Bob Mack says:

    I would rather jump from a plane with a ropey tarpaulin than have no type of parachute at all. That is the reality of Brexit, No parachute.
    I get infuriated at Westminster stupidity in order to appease a shower of racist ,xenophobic and imperialist citizens who disguise themselves in the cloak of trying to protect services. They are beyond contempt.

  12. heedtracker says:

    Rancid updates on this historic day of Britishness, sorry TORY Britishness,

    “Following the meeting, Theresa May said:

    Working together, the nations of the United Kingdom will make a success of leaving the European Union – and we will further strengthen our own unique and enduring union as we do so.

    The great union between us has been the cornerstone of our prosperity in the past – and it is absolutely vital to our success in the future.“

    May the farce, be with you viles seps.

  13. You would be better talking to a brick wall about GERS than some people who simply don’t want to know the truth.

    Its the same in regard to issues such as the NHS, Police Scotland or Local government services, the usual cry is the Scottish Government isn’t doing enough and it should use all these new powers its has.

    When you ask them what else they think the Scottish Government should be doing!

    They can’t provide any coherent answer.

  14. Liz g says:

    Wulls @ 3.07
    Been saying for a while now.
    When those account book’s are opened up after Indy,a lot of people are going to be in for a shock.
    And they won’t all be in Scotland.

  15. Dr Jim says:

    And we can’t join the Euro now even if we wanted to because the “SUN” says the value of the Euro is plunging, yes “Plunging” along with the falling price of oil ($51.78 which is falling upwards again) sigh,

    (The Sun newspapers westminster correspondent on Sky 20 minutes ago)

    I suppose they can always argue we’ll be forced to speak French, so that scuppers the whole deal for me as I only speak English, Scots, Spanish and a smattering of German
    But the UK could of course refuse to let me use the English language without a central language bank to guarantee my words

  16. Ian says:

    A massive Westminster ‘calculated’ allocated Scottish deficit that is only so high because the UK deficit is so high. That’s a great argument for staying in the UK. But then economic sanity never was Westminster’s strong point. Just look at the UK trade balance over the past few decades.

    The economic position of the UK over the last 30 years or so needs to be highlighted as a key part of Indyref2. Staying in UK would be suicidal.

  17. Andy Walsh says:

    Lets hope Derek McKay manages to get a chance to read this as any time I’ve heard him asked about this deficit he doesn’t deal with it very well.

  18. Nation Libre says:

    This is why it made me so angry to read and watch Gordon Wilson spouting this:

    Gordon Wilson, who led the SNP for 11 years, said that the party should not hold a second vote on independence until the size of Scotland’s deficit is “trimmed down to the size a small country would want”.

    EVEN if the GERS figures were to be believed, how the f*ck can Scotland do anything about it when it’s controlled by Westminster. How the f*ck can Scotland say we don’t want to pay a share of Trident/HS2/Cross Rail/Channel Tunnel/London Olympics etc ec-f*ckin-cetera when it’s controlled by Westminster. I do wish Gordon Wilson was asked this

    Made my blood boil to read/watch that. It’s like he’s actually starting to believe the Unionist p*sh. How the hell was he leader for 11 years?

    And another thing, this crap about if we lose a second IndyRef that would be it, this should be challenged every time it’s said. If it’s in the SNP/Green manifesto and the people of Scotland vote them in on that manifesto then why can’t there be a referendum every parliament

  19. Macart says:

    Setting aside the deeply stupid unionist drones (see under activists and luvvies) for a second. Let’s not forget the deeply dishonest ones who know exactly what the situation is and deliberately set about misinforming the electorate to perpetuate a deeply flawed, deliberately divisive and ultimately harmful narrative for their own selfish benefit. (see under politicians and media)

    How and ever, yeah! Who knew that an independent Scotland might do things their own way? 🙂

  20. H-H says:

    I’m not of the tinfoil hat brigade, but the GERS stooshie is a stitch-up and people are falling for it. This manufactured deficit pinned on Scotland is punted as some sort of incontrovertible accounting equation neatly packaged for the legions of anti-referendum police.

    Oh, I’ve just seen that May has warned FM not to ‘undermine’ Brexit plans. Nicola has said Eh?! coz there is no Bexit plan to undermine

    Thanks Rev

  21. heedtracker says:

    Ruthie Babes lays down the UKOK tory law in Graun and in tasty tory sound bites, what don’t mean anything.

    Welcoming May’s announcement of a new Brexit forum, Davidson added: “Nicola Sturgeon now needs to engage in a constructive fashion. The SNP isn’t going to answer any of the issues thrown up by Brexit by dividing the United Kingdom.”

    “Using Brexit to crank up support for separation is the wrong way to go. If the First Minister truly wants to act in the best interests of all of Scotland, she should take her plans for an unwanted independence referendum off the table.”

  22. call me dave says:

    A few minutes ago. We are one of the devolved administrations said radio 5 …pity, we were the SG only a few days ago.

    Good old auntie… no agenda!

    “It’s so frustrating” says Sturgeon nobody knows what Brexit means.

  23. I wish if Gordon Wilson can’t say anything constructive to progress that cause of Scottish independence.

    That he would just shut up, because every time he opens his mouth he gives unionists even more ammunition to attack us.

  24. terry says:

    I found this article from May 2011 from Channel 4’s Fact Check

    Some interesting snippets – “A new YouGov poll for the Sun found that only 29 per cent back independence – as opposed to 41 per cent of adults in England and Wales.” I bet that 41% figure has risen since 2011 and now Brexit – we may get chucked out yet!

    Also the article says – ““It’s almost certain that Scotland would survive as one nation and have reasonable performance, but whether it would be well-placed to cope with significant shocks like the major financial crisis we saw is another thing.”

    Prof Ashcroft also suggests that England could do badly as a result of independence for Scotland, and not just because of a shortfall in oil revenue.

    Loss of the North Sea oilfields would mean George Osborne would never be able to reap the benefit of a windfall tax on the North Sea operators like the one introduced in the last Budget.

    Most of the UK’s renewable energy resources like sites for wind and wave power stations are in Scotland, so the potential market for exported electricity would be out of Whitehall’s hands.”

    We live in a country where its own citizens do not know how much they are being held back and conned.

  25. mike cassidy says:


    but also a reminder of the obvious

    The EU is not as cuddly as you think.

  26. ScottishPsyche says:

    As staggeringly obvious as this statement is, probably before Brexit, even this would have been omitted from the report. Are the big four just not bowing to political pressure from the UK anymore? Many commentators have said the £ is now a political weapon to be used against the UK, this might be just the start.

    Someone will be Excelling the shit out of their data again as we speak. I predict a turgid and whining post soon on how Deloitte are thick and hate the English.

  27. Stoker says:

    Alex Salmond on RT right now talking about foreign affairs such as the current ongoing situation in Syria.

  28. Dr Jim says:

    You can Google the worlds countries deficits, and guess what, Scotland isn’t even mentioned

    I wonder why?

    Now we know the world recognises Scotland as a country we talk to them and everything, although the UK now says we’re not supposed to, but the world doesn’t recognise any defecit in Scotland, it only recognises the mahoosive UK deficit

    So I’ll just take that to mean, we’re OK
    So me and the FM can keep talking to the foreign folk without worrying over it anymore, Aah!

  29. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Dr Jim says at 3:19 pm

    I also caught the Sun WM Correspondent Lynn Robertson vs Ex SNP Comms Kevin Pringle who wasn’t the usual ex SNP turncoat and didn’t do too badly.

    Robertson spouted the following.

    1. Sturgeon has no mandate as she now has minority Govt.

    2. Polls show no appetite for IndyRef2

    3. Oil price down (despite now $51 per barrel as you say)

    4. Euro nosediving (so what we Wingers know that’s a red herring)

    5. Sturgeon posturing, knows she can’t win a Ref just now

    So that’s the Unionist arguments (similar to Theresa Villiers earlier).

  30. Kenny Ritchie says:

    When you look into the GERS journals like ‘A.6: Amendments to Estimates of Total Public Sector Infrastructure on Service from CRA 2015’ and ‘A.7: Expenditure Accounting Adjustments UK 1998-99 to 2015-2016’ and find entries like the following for 2015-16:

    English Housing Association £7.9bn
    Crossrail £829mn
    London Olympics £19mn

    Back in 2006-07 there was even a £1.4bn adjustment for Nigerian Debt.

    Makes you question what else Scotland is being charged for that GERS shows no transparency for?

  31. Breastplate says:

    The Rev has put this up in an earlier post from a month or so ago, I can’t remember which one.

    The Costs of Revolution
    Where the money is to come from which will defray this enormous annual expense of three millions sterling, and all those other debts, I know not; unless the author of Common Sense, or some other ingenious projector, can discover the Philosopher’s Stone, by which iron and other base metals may be transmuted into gold. Certain I am that our commerce and agriculture, the two principal sources of our wealth, will not support such an expense. The whole of our exports from the Thirteen United Colonies, in the year 1769, amounted only to £2,887,898 sterling; which is not so much, by near half a million, as our annual expense would be were we independent of Great Britain. Those exports; with no inconsiderable part of the profits arising from them, it is well known, centered finally in Britain to pay the merchants and manufacturers there for goods we had imported thence—and yet left us still in debt! What then must our situation be, or what the state of our trade, when oppressed with such a burden of annual expense! When every article of commerce, every necessary of life, together with our lands, must be heavily taxed to defray that expense!
    —Charles Inglis, 1776, Pennsylvania

    After 240 years, the Unionist argument hasn’t changed in the slightest.

  32. CameronB Brodie says:

    In any case, development occurs within a legal framework of international law. Failure to acknowledge the law is to support criminal interests. And don’t ask me about the semiotics of space and place or cultural development, ask Mr. H @ the BBC. I’m sure he will have boned up on the subject by now.

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

  33. yesindyref2 says:

    Saying GERS doesn’t reflect the path of Independent Scotland is correct, but is only one part of the problem with the “net fiscal deficit”. Scotland is assigned a block grant to sepend and Barnett consequentials. Though the Scottish Government can make representations over the figures, it does not make any decision over the amounts, and has very limited saving or borrowing pwoers. It is also allocated this in terms of everyday expenditure, and capital expenditure, and can not decide, for instance, to siphon £5 billion out of the everyday fund for a short-term belt-tightening to generate long-term savings. Its hands are tied. Similarly for what the UK Government “spends on our behalf”.

    But that is NOT the full picture, and using this as a defence against the so-called £15 billion black hole is only part of the attack upon that figure. Nor is saying that hey look, that’s what happened with Westminster in control. There is truth in that, but it does not tackle any underlying deficit, particilarly a structural deficit.

    The ScotGov must produce a report saying what they are doing to try to tackle any structural deficit, and how much of the current illustrative one is down to cyclical factors over which nobody has any control – like the oil price. The oil price is a cyclical problem, and over the last 3 or 4 years has meant that oil revenue has had a reducing affect in reducing the overall deficit caused by the onshore deficit – the deficit excluding north sea revenues.

    From that point of view this helps from a brief analysis of GERS:

    “In 6 years (end of 2010 to end of 2016), Scotland’s onshore deficit has reduced from 17.8% to 10.1% – a drop of 7.7%. It can reasonably be hoped that in another 6 years that onshore deficit can be reduced by another 7.7% to 2.4% – lower than France or the UK, and in 2 more years, to a surplus of 0.2%.”

  34. Nation Libre says:

    What should be pointed out also, for example, is where Scotland might be if say Osborne’s £2Billion extra tax on the oil industry a few years ago had been spent in Scotland, say, £1Billion to carbon capture technology and the other £1Billion to renewables, either subsidies and or research.

  35. galamcennalath says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Sturgeon posturing, knows she can’t win a Ref just now

    That’s always the funniest 🙂

    If It were true, it would be like pre August 2014 where everyone daurn souff was ignoring events in Scotland, and the Yoons here thought they had the situation contained.

    Then at the beginning of September they realised their UK might have a problem. Everyone got on the plane from Heathrow and the metro sett suddenly looked north. Every stop was pulled out to prevent Indy.

    Why is everyone on the UKOK side spending soooo much time and effort in full attack mode? Because they realise since Brexit their UK is in greater danger than 2014!

    It is they who are posturing. The rest of us are working methodically towards a solution to this shit show.

  36. Dan Huil says:

    Britnat arrogance and ignorance towards Scotland, loud and hysterical in its desperation, continues unabated. My quiet optimism that Scotland will regain its independence continues apace.

  37. donnywho says:

    Interestingly if you compare the Gers reports for the years 2001- 2009 where the Oil Price was below $50 per barrel you find that the British Government took between £4Bn and £8bn per year as a tax take.

    Now we seem to be being credited with a couple of hundred million.

    I wonder what happened to the money?

  38. yesindyref2 says:

    Basically speaking anti-Indy pundits and posters want us all to concentrate on that big scary figure of £15 billion. DON’T be suckered into that, point out that that represents a less than 10% deficit, a deficit that has been steadily dropping despite the oil revenues having plummeted like a stone.

    Effective revenues themselves now are nearly zero – £60 million as reported via GERS – and can’t drop any further. Tax incentives to the oil industry have nothing to do with current revenues [1], they are the equivalent of capital investment to restimulate the industry for future revenues. The UK Government is investing in the future of the oil revenues with its research allowances, iScotland would do the same, but it’s an INVESTMENT, not an expenditure.

    [1] In fact GERS doesn’t break down the figures into revenues versus tax incentives, but that’s another story, perhaps addresssed in next year’s GERS which will be under the new ESA2010 standards – no idea if that’s included.

  39. orri says:

    The problem with both proposals regarding renewables and carbon capture is that it’d increase Scotland’s over production of electricity. Which in turn might serve to give Scotland an exportable commodity that unless England were to do something about it’s own inadequacies, at least as far as power generation goes, might force them to deal more favourably with an independent Scotland. The same way they might soon need us to supply them fresh water whilst they finally get round to actually fixing their leak ridden infrastructure.

  40. Pete says:

    Lots of folks savaging Gordon Wilson after yesterday’s interview but what he was saying was eminently sensible, especially regarding GERS.
    He was advocating that the SNP set up an independent think-tank to produce financial forecasts of how an independent Scotland would operate once it had all the levers of power and set out the best way forward with regards currency and all the other unresolved matters which got us in to so much trouble during the 2014 ref.
    This would obviously take some time and that was his reason for holding back a bit.
    Seemed a good idea.

  41. sassenach says:

    Just had a look at the BBC comments page about the Sturgeon/May meeting – never seen so much unionist bile in one place for a long time. The level of ‘debate’ is atrocious, and there’s over 1500 comments thus far.

    Get us out of this for Gawd’s sake – indyref2, please.

  42. Dr Jim says:

    Let’s see what happens at FMQs when Davidson asks the FM for an update, will Nicola do a May and say “It’s a secret and ahm no tellin ye but leave your phone number and I’ll have a flunky person not call you back”

  43. heedtracker says:

    Always worth listening to top Murdoch goons at the beeb too

    0 replies 5 retweets 44 likes
    Reply Retweet 5
    Like 44

    Andrew Neil ?@afneil Oct 19
    Andrew Neil Retweeted Fr Jeb
    Well, they are compiled, validated and published by SNP-controlled Scottish Government so, I guess, yes.Andrew Neil added,
    Fr Jeb @FrJeb

    @buchanan17 @jockflypuppy @afneil Oh bless you actually think GERS gives accurate information on Scottish Finances.
    0 replies 81 retweets 111 likes
    Reply Retweet 81
    Like 111

    If the nice BBC Politics man says GERS is compiled, validated and published by SNP-controlled Scottish Government, it must be true.

    The Ligger.

  44. bjsalba says:

    We should be joining the Europe-wide grid via the northern route from Caithness via Orkneys, Shetlands to Norway.

    Shorter than other routes.

  45. louis.b.argyll says:

    PROOF AGAIN, of the lies we must resist.

    That the ruling UK Unionists ignore facts from their opponents (and spread contrary opinion as knowledge) nothing new.

    That they try to shut their friends up too, by warning of knock on effects is also traditional.

    But pulling up the drawbridge on the truth itself, IS NOW IN FULL VIEW OF THE WORLD..
    So the drawbridge is being raised very slowly behind a curtain.

    I’d laugh, if I didn’t have good English friends, so I feel sorry for them, for the community they lack.

  46. manandboy says:

    Well, well, well. After the big Brexit meeting at No 10, any progress? Absolutely none. The British Prime Minister only repeats her little sayings, like ‘protecting the strategy’ as a reason for saying virtually nothing to the other devolution leaders. May is not just playing a game with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, she is ‘taking the piss’ and reminding them that she has all the power, tee, hee, hee.

    Oh, and regular monthly meetings with David Davis, during which the three FM’s can play with the dog, have some lunch and waste their time listening to a bag of hot air.

    But this is serious politics, don’t you know, Tory UKIP style.
    May and her little gang of brexiteers haven’t got a thing. All they’re doing is rustling some wrapping paper in an empty box.

    Theresa may? Theresa can’t.

  47. ronnie anderson says:

    Jacob Rees Mogg when Uk leaves EU then the EU Appeal Court has nothing to do with UK Law,May agree’s . Small matter of UK supreme court & Scottish Law, would the same apply.

  48. yesindyref2 says:

    Problem with the likes of Wilson and Sillars is that the media isn’t going to report what they say fairly, you’d think by now the dumb sods would realise that.

  49. heedtracker says:

    What should be pointed out also, for example, is where Scotland might be if say Osborne’s £2Billion extra tax on the oil industry a few years ago had been spent in Scotland, say, £1Billion to carbon capture technology and the other £1Billion to renewables, either subsidies and or research.”

    That £2bn in NOT Scots oil money went to the London 2012 Olympic Games, the most expensive ever. You can argue how Brit nationalist those games were, given that they were called the London Olympics.

    Crash Gordo filched several hundred million of Lotto money too, for the London 2012 Olympics, a lot of Scottish Lotto money recipients lost out in the hundreds of millions, but like NOT Scots oil, its NOT Lotto ticket money bought in Scotland.

    Such is Crash Gordo and Bomber Blair’s New Labour investment, in London and the south east of Greater England.

    Anyway, The Liggers says its not true,

    Andrew NeilVerified account
    ?@afneil Andrew Neil Retweeted TerryAnnG
    Scotland does not contribute to any of items you list, bar HS2, for which it’s up for a pittance. Do you spread such nonsense knowingly?Andrew Neil added,

    TerryAnnG @TerryAnn_G
    Scotlands false deficit comes from UK borrowing on our behalf..

    That list included London Olympic games, new Heathrow, tube and sewage etc. Who can you trust?

  50. mike d says:

    Treesa said,the great union of our prosperity. Is she extracting the urine? .what f*****g prosperity?.foodbanks,zero hour contracts, plummeting pound,gtf you tory scum.

  51. Auld Rock says:

    I just hope someone has copied this and sent round Social Media, also maybe blow-up and put on Bill-Boards all across Scotland, especially a Board facing the EBC, HQ in Glasgow others could be placed strategically in Yoon strongholds!

    Auld Rock

  52. yesindyref2 says:


    From GERS 2015-16 page 47:

    In GERS, Scotland is allocated none of the capital expenditure associated with the London Olympics.

  53. Proud Cybernat says:

    A reminder to the oblivious…

  54. heedtracker says:

    Rancid The Graun explains another Crash Gordo legacy,

    Nothing about the Scotland region of Greater England losing out but it is Rancid.

    “Charities seek return of £425m lotto cash used for London Olympics
    Campaigners say ‘giveaway’ West Ham stadium deal adds to failure of authorties to honour 2012 Games’ legacy”

    As Dr NO! explains,

    Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 28 Jul 2015 Islington, London
    Labour’s recovery shouldn’t be about right v left, or rich v poor. It is about convincing everyone that social justice is in their interest.

  55. Proud Cybernat says:

    It just doesn’t make any sense…

  56. Nation Libre says:


    I don’t think anybody has a problem with Gordon Wilson stating “set up an independent think-tank to produce financial forecasts of how an independent Scotland would operate”

    What I do have a problem with is him basing Scotland’s position on GERS and that we should wait until our finances (determined by GERS) are in a healthier position

    It must be apparent to almost everyone that GERS will never show Scotland to be in a healthy financial position. Westminster’s argument against Scottish Independence is that Scotland is a basket case which sadly a lot of people taken in by. There is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for Westminster to attempt to improve Scotland’s position as reported in GERS

    That explains the scrapping of the Carbon Capture scheme, the early end of renewable subsidies, the delay in awarding new ship contract, disproportionate closure of Scottish Army/RAF bases, the £2Billion windfall tax on the oil industry, the higher transmission levy for Scottish power transmission

    GERS ain’t going to improve anytime soon. It should be rubbished at every opportunity

  57. Stoker says:

    London deliberately set out to try and publicly humiliate our First Minister today, at least that’s how i see it. Inviting her all the way to Downing Street under the guise of Brexit strategy talks.

    Only, upon arrival, we learn via London’s partners in crime (the news channels) that there was nothing to talk about and London’s unelected Prime Minister only wanted to show that she was the boss by ” *warning* “ NS not to attempt to “undermine the Brexit process”.

    Nicola, they have tried to make a complete arse out of you today, i know that you’ll have something equally devilish up your sleeve so please please make it sting like it’s never stung before. Start with their gophers at Holyrood on Thursday!

    How dare these obnoxious pig pokers insult our First Minister in such a very public way. Mind you, Nicola probably expected it and just had to go through the motions to be seen to be responsible and taking *every* opportunity in Scotland’s interests. So maybe it wasn’t a waste of time after-all?

  58. yesindyref2 says:

    The thing about Barnett consequentials is that they’re not automatically given, and devolved governments ahve to fight up for them at times.

    Case in point is HS2 where Wales fought its case, and Scotland got the share Scotland would be charged for reduced from a full population share of 8.3% to 2%, on the basis that apparently we’ll get some benefit. Most of us would disagree, but there you go.

    Crossrail I think was also balanced out so we didn’t get charged for it. That’s a more difficult one to track if you’ll pardon the pun, as there was apparently a £500 million up-front “bung” to Scotland, but you’d need the patience of a saint to track that down, and I’m no fecking saint.

  59. Mike says:

    I wish the Scottish Government would stop acknowledging publically that Scotland has a 15.8 billion debt when we don’t. Why don’t they take the time to refute it every time its brought up?
    I wish they would stop acknowledging GERS as anything but an extension of the OBR.
    They give credibility to established lies spin and bullshit.
    WTF is wrong with them?

  60. Free Scotland says:

    If the unionists would just ditch their obsession with what Scotland’s (fictional) deficit would be under independence, and focus instead on what the rest of the UK’s REAL deficit will be once Scotland is an independent country, then the true reasons behind Better Together’s “Project Fear” will become crystal clear.

    In the final analysis, they don’t give a hoot about Scotland. The motivation of people like Darling and Carmichael is personal greed.

  61. Onwards says:

    mike cassidy says:
    24 October, 2016 at 3:47 pm


    but also a reminder of the obvious

    The EU is not as cuddly as you think.

    The EU isn’t perfect, but it is a far more equal union than the UK “union”.

    In scare quotes to demonstrate what a sham of a union it really is.

    The current situation with a region of Belgium blocking the Canadian trade agreement demonstrates how small EU nations have significant powers.

    Perhaps too much powers in certain issues. It would be interesting if this led to Veto reform so that a single EU nation can’t hold up something that the other 27 all agree on.

    And convenient for Scotland if we can avoid constant threats of a Spanish veto.

  62. geeo says:

    The problem with “WARNING” us Scots, is the tendency we havve to answer that with, “OR WHAT”?

  63. galamcennalath says:

    Nicola just a tat heet up today. Talking tough, and with justification it sounds like …

  64. sinky says:

    If I had a pound for every time yoons mention the £15 billion deficit as a reason why an Indy Scotland would be bankrupt, I could retire tomorrow. So why do newspaper letter editors keep printing what they know is utter bollocks?

    Also on Radio Five this afternoon a news report mentioned fact that Walloon government had blocked Canada Trade Agreement.

    Funny how BBC Scotland don’t want the North Britons to know this in the area covered by the strongest devolved government in the world.

  65. Proud Cybernat says:

    FFS Hang On…

  66. Meg merrilees says:

    Just been listening to Theresa May’s report to Parliament this afternoon…cue – Frank Sinatra …” I did it my way”
    What a depressing scenario!

    Angus Robertson asked searching question – got the usual dismissive response from TM about including all parts of UK in her discussions; Re Indy possibility she reminded us that Scotland exports/ trades more with the rest of the UK than EU. Back to the old ‘pooling and sharing’ rhetoric.
    Tasmina’s point – why does the UK gov find it so politically difficult to even comprehend the will of the Scottish voters, government and Parliament – ignored!
    Joanna told TM will make best arrangement for financial services throughout the UK.

    We certainly export more electricity south than we import, send car components south which then counts against us as an import when we buy a car made in Little England and since we don’t have the investment in our deep water ports / infrastructure/railways with a direct link to Europe etc most of our goods have to do down the M6 and A1. In return we get a share of their debt!

    The comments on the BBC website report about the Joint Council Brexit meeting are unbelievably anti-Scottish and this about a meeting involving all 4 devolved nations.
    Why will Wales get a part in the formal UK negotiations? Not much dissent about that..
    NI will be treated specially because of the border with Eire – not much dissent about that..
    No mention of any special treatment of Scotland other than ignoring our requests completely and the comments are almost in meltdown – jeez! Glad I don’t work down south anymore!

    BUT – the times they are a changing’ – believe it! Had a family celebration this weekend ( my 60th!) and whilst sister and two brothers-in-law voted Leave and will vote NO, all 8 nieces/nephews and partners are staunch Remain/YES and all their friends. We will get there!

  67. galamcennalath says:

    New Stateman

    “It’s fair to say that the first meeting of the government’s Brexit ministers and the leaders of the devolved legislatures did not go well.”

    The jist of this article is that May is going Brexit somewhere on to Hard to Dirty end if the spectrum.

  68. gus1940 says:

    ‘Sturgeon Slaps Down May’ – but don’t expect to see any headlines tomorrow along these lines.

    First of all let’s see how it is reported on 6pm news and Misreporting Scotland.

    As for May’s vomit inducing post meeting speech all it needed was a military band in the background playing ‘Land Of Hope And Glory’ or Jerusalem’.

  69. sinky says:

    heedtracker says: @ 4.47

    We should be pointing out that the “deficit” would be reduced by up to one third immediately we get independence as wouldn’t be paying for UK National Debt etc.

  70. Alastair says:

    It’s time for a change of name for May’s centre of power.
    10 Drowning Street.

  71. Les Wilson says:

    Hmmm, here is a thing about banks, from Bloomberg no less

    “While in Washington I spoke to large American businesses and banks,” Sapin said at a press conference in Paris. “Until now their question was whether Brexit will happen or might it take longer than expected. That’s over. They are telling us clearly that there will be a transfer of activity. It’s no longer a question of if but when. I don’t know to what extent or which ones.”

    May has promised to trigger Article 50 of the EU treaty to begin the two-year exit process by next March at the latest. The EU and its other member states have said they won’t enter into talks until that happens.
    “At least we know it will happen by March,” Sapin said.

  72. yesindyref2 says:

    Pity really May didn’t just say in these words “Fuck off Scotland”, would have speeded things up a bit, because that’s what she really means. So the game continues to its inevitable conclusion. Pass the energy drink, we’re going to need more of it!

  73. heedtracker says:

    sinky says:
    24 October, 2016 at 5:56 pm
    heedtracker says: @ 4.47

    We should be pointing out that the “deficit” would be reduced by up to one third immediately we get independence as wouldn’t be paying for UK National Debt

    Wonder what our chums in south would make of that though. The great Bully Pulpit of the BBC alone would burst into flames. A great conflagration of tory liggers and liars would descend on the greater English region of Scotland, Kevin Hague tories filling in the gaps with ace graphs, of NO.

  74. yesindyref2 says:

    Reasonably reported on the BBC news. Maybe the mis-reporting Scotland campaign is already working!

  75. Describing folk as stupid is really going to convert them to yes???

  76. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Mother Theresa is morphing into Brian Clough:

    “We’ll discuss it – then do it my way”.

  77. heedtracker says:

    Dr NO! brings very exciting news! Its terrible, for his Scotland region. Bet Norway must crying into their useless oil wells that they too weren’t run by another country.

    Scott Arthur Retweeted
    Faisal Islam ?@faisalislam 21h21 hours ago
    6. My oh my – check out the actual receipts from North Sea over time (offshore Corp tax + PRT) 2008/9: £12.3 billion. 2015/16 £ -0.024 bn

  78. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, I put this comment on Michael Settle’s biased unionist article, wonder how long it will last?

    This is such a one-sided article. Generally the Herald is starting to do better, this is a backwards step.

  79. Robert Graham says:

    Has this wholy political brain child of Ian Lang (GERS) ever once shown Scotland as a viable self governing country , if not surely the ones in charge (ie) the government of the day are liable for the total basket case we are year on year made out to be , were we a pauper nation even during the golden years of Broon the financial magician ? .
    Or are we destined to be the village idiot forever in this f/n one sided Occupation because thats what it is ,it certainly isnt a f/n Union .

  80. mike cassidy says:

    Onwards at 5.33

    I post the occasional reminder of the cuddly side of the EU

    Here’s the link that should have made it into my 3.47.

  81. Ken500 says:

    No paying for Trident. Debt repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. No taxing the Oil & Gas sector at 60% to 80% when the price has fallen 75%, losing thousands of jobs. Not taxing the Oil & Gas sector at 40%, and imported untaxed fracked Gas from the US. No tax evasion. = No deficit.

    Scotland would have had a £300Billion Oil Fund and full employment.

    Westminster mismanagement causes the deficit in Scotland. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. Brexit has already lost £Billion from the UK economy. Price increases. More to come. Join the Euro? There is parity with the Euro. The £ will fall below the Euro.

    The Tories are destroying the world economy.

    MSM is obsessed with migration.

  82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi terry.
    On 24 October, 2016 at 3:46pm, you typed,

    I found this article from May 2011 from Channel 4’s Fact Check”

    That article has been regularly captured by the Internet Archive since it was published. Interesting to see how the page style has changed over the intervening years. Here’s the capture from 19th May, 2011. The other captures can be accessed from the top of the page.

  83. One_Scot says:

    Serious question, is there any prominent unionist MP/MSP that can lead BetterTogether2 without being exposed as a total hypocrite with their IndtRef1 claims.

  84. manandboy says:

    Today’s meeting of the Joint Ministerial Committee (JMC) served only to make the UK electorate think that Brexit is top of the UK Government’s priority list. This will continue to be Theresa May’s strategy – to deflect and distract from the Tories’ real agenda.

    We all know, that painful though Brexit will be, it will ease over time and a slow recovery for rUK is likely.
    Brexit will not be the end of the world for the British Establishment.
    But Scottish Independence will be.

    So Theresa May’s eye is not so much on the EU but rather on Scotland.

    May is playing a fish. Everyone can see that, but the fish itself is hidden under the surface, with everyone thinking it’s the EU – but it’s not.
    The EU offers rUK a large trading bloc – but with lots of strings, many of which stick in Westminster’s throat.
    The EU does NOT offer Westminster unlimited renewable energy, oil and gas reserves for 150 years, food and fresh water and a hundred other freebies.
    May knows all this. She knows that Scotland, not the Eu, is England’s golden goose.

    Theresa May’s task is to secure Scotland as England’s last bountiful colony, power for a lifetime for the Tories and disengage from Europe – in that order.

    And to do it without the electorate knowing about it.

  85. heedtracker says:

    Brexit will not be the end of the world for the British Establishment.
    But Scottish Independence will be.

    Its not good news for local yoon establishment either. But they never made much sense anyway. Here in Aberdeen, currently owned by red and blue tory yoons, there’s a massive green belt building boom going on everywhere you look. Given the contraction of the oil sector here, its a building boom that makes no sense at all and there’s glut of housing now, with some new very expensive estates not even being marketed.

    So from an over heated non planned local expansion block on housing development, Wullie Young UKOK catastrofuck style, meaning 4+ decades of no social housing, over priced, over heated housing market, Aberdeen’s green belt’s suddenly getting covered in Stewarty Milne style chicken coop housing. Fair enough its probably end of career land bank dumping by likes of Milne, but as far as tory yoon right to reign over us goes, holy fcuk.

  86. One_Scot says:

    I don’t think that anyone can be in any doubt after today that IndyRef2 is not going to happen, other than from the Interweb Yoons that is.

  87. One_Scot says:

    Not sure that makes any sense, but you know what I mean.

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @call me dave says: 24 October, 2016 at 3:40 pm:

    “A few minutes ago. We are one of the devolved administrations said radio 5 …pity, we were the SG only a few days ago.”

    Let’s just get to the real nub of the matter, Call me Dave.

    The real truth is that while there are indeed four distinct countries in the United KINGDOM, only one of those countries is actually run as if it actually were the United KINGDOM.

    That country is the country of England and there is a vital difference between that country of England, (that is run as if it were the United KINGDOM), and the country of England. Moreover, there are only two distinct KINGDOMS that united to form the United KINGDOM not four countries.

    So there is the real obfuscation and the confidence trick rip-off that has always been the bare faced lie of the Westminster Establishment.

    They do not uphold the terms of the Treaty of Union between the two, equally sovereign, partners of the union.

    Instead, not only do they play down Scotland’s position as the only full partner in the Union, they also play down Wales and Northern Ireland as distinct countries within the Kingdom of England and boosting the country of England as the United Kingdom and the other three countries as just parts of the Kingdom of England.

    The stark truth is that there are only two equally sovereign kingdoms in the United Kingdom and there are three distinct countries in the Kingdom of England.

    Yet with devolution England is governed as The United Kingdom, (funded and run as if she were), and everyone else are just devolved countries. Being granted, at England’s beneficence, devolved powers.

    This is so obvious when you consider EVEL, the truth is that The Country of England has assumed the powers of the United Kingdom and has the bare faced cheek to devolve the powers of the United Kingdom to Wales and N. Ireland and to, the only other full partner in the union, The Kingdom and country of Scotland.

  89. galamcennalath says:

    Second prediction of the day …

    There will be no IndyRef beyond 2018/19, ever.

    Firstly I ignore the unlikely scenarios of either Brexit is cancelled or there is an acceptable soft Brexit retaining access to the ESM.

    The 3 likely scenarios, IMO:-

    We have IndyRef2 soon and leave.

    We have IndyRef2 soon and vote to stay in the UK.

    We don’t have IndyRef2 soon and stay,

    In these latter two, Scotland will be so damaged at the hands of hard right English nationalists that Indy ceases to be viable. This will be engineered intentionally as a permanent solution to the ‘Scottish problem’. Sad, but I believe possible.

  90. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Interesting that May says that there will be a deal for the whole UK; no part of it specifically designed for any of the ‘home nations’.

    Does that mean she is keeping her options open for special deals for the City of London and Nissan in Sunderland (and Gibraltar), or will it be “one size fits all”?

    The Yoon establishment is really in a bit of a fankle…

  91. Liz g says:

    galamcennalath @ 7.25

    Or option 4 they Brexit fast cause they won’t get a better deal by talking for 2 years.
    But they get to leave the ECHR and then they impose a new act of Union.
    Many Scot’s will welcome it,and agree referendums are a bad idea.
    The little clause that never let us leave will only be discussed on blog’s like this until the are patriotically shut down,and many Scot’s will agree with that as well.

    Far fetched I know but it’s what I would do if I were them.

  92. Giving Goose says:

    If you want to see a cringingly embarrasing example of total deference to the Tories then look no further than Tom Harris in the Telegraph.
    I won’t post the link, it’s easy to find.

    Tom is quite clearly a Tory and if I were his ex constituents in Glasgow then I’d be asking for a refund because they were completely had!

    Essentially Harris disguised himself by wearing his Super Tory blue underpants under his strides where they couldn’t be seen, spoke some shite about socialist values, pinned a red rosette to his chest and Hey Presto! A Labour MP.

    Complete fraud!

    Anyway have a look at his whitterings in the Telegraph where he’s flying the flag for his London masters and doing his damndest to get a gong in the honours list.

    Fair play to Tom, he’s now wearing his true blue Tory colours proudly since the good folks of Glasgow gave him their honour of the boot.

    Hooraah Tom! Yoiks and off to Henley Regatta and Jolly Good Show. It’s all cricket while the village church clock chimes eternally for 3pm.

    Crawling creep!

  93. Undeadshaun says:


    I don’t agree, demographics are on our side.
    And even without oil we are blessed with several industries that other countries wished they had.

    Whisky, life sciences, video games, power exports and wave and tidal renewable technologies, there are others.

    I remember 1979, it felt terrible seeing and living through the worst years of thatcherism, when the same was said and look at us now, so close the the goal.

    Pessimism is what the uk wants you to feel, they want you to feel there is no hope, no future.
    Optimism will always prevail.

    To make it uneconomical for Scotland to be independent ever would require the use of tactics that would deem UDI a valid choice.

    Chill out, ignore yoon media and you will feel better about the future and yourself.

  94. call me dave says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    Radio 5 took a minute to add a correction about that late afternoon where auntie implied that the UK ‘one size fits all’ that Davis stated on Brexit deal did not rule out a special arrangement for

    1. Ireland borders
    2. Car industry + London financial sector.

    They never coughed as they said it and probably were too busy smirking to blush! So eat your porridge.

    Funny old world init! 🙂

  95. Balaaargh says:

    STOP! Haud the presses!

    This is a Deloitte report. Therefore it is not a UK Government report. Therefore it is merely an opinion piece and not a statement of fact.

    Just like no unionist has ever said Scotland is too wee, too poor or too stupid…

  96. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi call me dave.

    Yes, I thought the wording was ambiguous enough to leave them leeway for individual special deals – that THEY approve of!

  97. Valerie says:


    Your comment chimes with manandboy at 6.36, and I completely agree.

    I am sick at this point, because things are currently so bad, and the future is so shit, economically, that we really need to put the marker down, that we are prepping for departure.

    If we put that message out now, there is no doubt we could benefit from the various businesses looking to remain in the EU.

    I don’t know why the SG doesn’t nail the Deficit crap. Even to just say, all our exports go via England, so there are no figures etc., if they don’t want to attack.

    There must be some strategic issue, such as getting administrative apparatus in place, that we need to delay.

    I feel despondent about direction at the moment, because the Tories are on the ropes, they haven’t a clue, and we should be going in with the boot, on a number of issues.

    They are in such a mess over Brexit, the last thing they want is the uppity jocks, so I’m pretty sure they will denigrate us further, the hallmark of May, strongarm rhetoric, to disguise your lack of intellectual rigour.

  98. gerry parker says:

    So we’ve set up a trade centre in Berlin.

    Time to set one up in Oslo, and one in Reykjavik?

  99. Ken500 says:

    Trade and exports would have to subtract cost of production, There are benefits from production but the most advantage is profit – 20%? What if the profits are accured to London HQ and not even accredited to Scotland. Whisky companies, Oil, fuel, electricity etc. GERS does not give an accurate figure. Westminster claimed it could not give separate figures.

    The EU, apart from trade brings £Billions in possibilities of renewables grants etc. The possibility of CCS. Pipelines were going to be built. EU investment in Scotland. Most of the utilities companies are EU State owned companies which are investing in renewables in Scotland. Aberdeen Asset Management are the biggest fund management in Europe.

  100. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    O/T – this post is about making public the desire for Scottish independence.

    Yes NE Fife cavalcade this Saturday, 29th October.
    Assemble Fluthers Car Park Cupar at 10am.
    Finish Luthrie Hall.

    Journey is about 80 miles and includes a stop in Anstruther for a fish supper. Journey could take around 4 Hrs taking into account speeds of 25 to 50mph. It is non political, purely a promo for Scotland’s Independence.

    That’s all that I’ve heard so far. Please share this info as widely as possible.

  101. Ken500 says:

    Westminster Tories pay £Billions over the odds for HS2 and Hinkley Point to China. Both a total waste of money. That is the kind of trade deals the Tories want to sign. Get consultancy and bank fees and charges for their associates and families. Borrow the money, milk the public purse and pay back £Billions over the odds.

    How can NZ (5 million), Australia (25 million), Canada (40 million) make up for 450 million EU market. The EU will negotiate better terms for trade with India, China US etc and stop tax evasion by multinationals. Multinationals who create monopolies which prevent free, fair trade. Apple, Google Microsoft etc.

  102. liz says:

    O/T can anyone remember the name of the book that was written post indy ref which was scathing about Blair McDougall and others in Better together

  103. Max says:

    Please point the amateur economist who sells dog food in this direction… looking forward to reminding him on twitter asit is an ample “one line” repost to his senseless diatribes

  104. ScottishPsyche says:

    @ Liz

    Project Fear by Joe Pike ?

  105. crazycat says:

    @ liz

    Project Fear by Joe Pike.

    I believe there’s a second edition out now, including material (about the Westminster election?) that I haven’t read.

  106. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    One_Scot says at 6:36 pm

    BetterTogether2, led by Jakey Rollin’s poodle Loki now he’s been paid to see the light?

    Hahahahaha 🙂

  107. crazycat says:

    @ Scottish Psyche

    Great minds think alike 🙂

    I did refresh the page before I posted, and didn’t take 4 minutes to type, so it’s a bit odd I couldn’t see your post till I’d duplicated it.

  108. heedtracker says:

    Graun’s quite funny tonight. How many ways can the liggers avoid saying out loud and proud, “it doesn’t matter a jot what anyone in our Scotland region of Greater England thinks.”

    They begged and pleaded, they lied and threatened, stay with us and together as equals, we will rule Britannia, 2014.

    Steve Bell’s probably never been so prescient, for a thug.

  109. Whitegold says:

    It’s pains me.
    It’s all the information you’d ever need to see through this political tool rebranded as GERS.
    This nonsense needs to be challenged 24/7 365.
    The truth needs to be hammered home.
    If only we had some decent platforms.
    As I said.
    It pains me.

  110. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    manandboy says at 6:36 pm

    Disturbingly prescient post.

  111. ScottieDog says:

    This obsession with deficits quite wrongly treats countries like they are an operational business seeking profits.
    Well what’s good for the goose has to be good for the gander..

    So as effectively, Scotland as a branch of UK plc, are currently running a deficit.
    Ok but what is UK plc’s track record say since WW2?

    Let’s think business..

    Well UK Plc has run consistent deficits since the 1940s. So using this business logic, UK Plc should no longer be trading. Surely it can’t be viable?

    Over that period, what has the northern branch contributed to UK Plc as a whole?
    I don’t have the figures, but taking an objective view it has to be, well, a hell of a lot, and that’s just taking into account its hydrocarbon department. Promotions all round for the northern branch. Yet UK Plc is still running at a loss.

    Incredibly in search of profit, during the 80s UK plc abandons it’s production facilities and starts up a pyramid scheme for its employees. You can’t lose they say. Definite money spinner.
    2008, the wheels come off. The employees are in over their heads. Everyone expects the proponents of the pyramid scheme to be dismissed. But no. They are given record bonuses and keep their jobs.

    The pyramid scheme triples the company’s debt now standing at £1.6tn. More money is pumped into the pyramid scheme to keep it going.

    But how can the company still be in existence?
    Well it has it’s super-platinum credit card which has no limit. The company uses the card to buy back one quarter of its debt and no one bats an eyelid. The company’s PR machine plays a blinder.

    Having ran profits for almost 4 decades, the northern branch is not allowed to retain any of these to plan for future growth. Branch North manager asks for investment but none is forthcoming. The pyramid scheme needs the platinum credit card and ‘times are tough’.

    2015. Ex dog food ‘accountant’ shows northern branch is now making a loss. Northern Management held to account as incompetent. It’s running should be given to those in UK plc – they know how to make a profit!

    As platinum card not allowed in North, senior management ask for bigger remit but none is forthcoming.

    Northern management finally suggest jettison of northern branch since it is ‘unprofitable’. Surely shaking off this loss making part of the business would boost UK Plc share value?
    UK Plc vehemently disagree. Northern branch must remain and continue to make a loss.

    Northern branch employees to be balloted about setting up separate company – preferably with its own platinum credit card (Scottish pound)

  112. Pete says:

    Re. Gordon Wilson
    Still can’t understand why the SNP don’t take up his idea of producing financial forecasts for a truly independent Scotland.
    It would put to bed all the arguments about GERS.
    There must be quite a few think tanks or Universities who would take this on.
    They could produce the figures using a number of scenarios.
    The 2014 white paper was totally lacking in financial data that it was easily ridiculed.
    We have to get things right this time to the extent that the oldies will have confidence that there financial status is secure.
    Preparation is the key.

  113. North chiel says:

    “Manandboy” , at 0636pm absolutely right on ” the money” sir!

  114. Fred says:

    Anent Gordon Wilson, the SNP’s mass membership probably means that the bulk of them don’t even know who this self-opinionated former heid-puddock was!

  115. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    ScottieDog says at 9:19 pm

    Excellent post, says it like it is.

    Particularly like “Ex dog food ‘accountant’”

    The eternal question, If Scotland is a basket case, subsidy junkie why do they hold on to us??

  116. Tinto Chiel says:

    Galamcennalath @5.43: thanks for the Ch4 interview with the FM.

    I thought Nicola very clearly articulated her frustration at the incompetence/arrogance/stupidity of the Tory “government”. She looked really annoyed, and nae wunner. Even Funky Gibbons seemed impartial and didn’t interrupt, which is nice.

    But what’s this with the subtitles? Could anyone possibly say she did not speak with clarity and in Standard English? Just another subtle piece of “othering”, or is my tinfoil hat showing?

    Pass the Silvo…

  117. John Edgar says:

    The Torygraph online has a headline article, “May warns Sturgeon against “undermining Brexit negotiations”
    Is that not the point to “undermine” Brexit.
    Scots voted to remain; we do not want Scexit! If the rUK want to rUKexit, then fine, we Scots will not stand in their way, but we remain.
    It seems May gets shriller by the day; thrashing about, planless, clueless and directionless.
    The ensuing MayHem will finally end the Union.

  118. scottieDog says:

    FT report scotland’s bid to be efta member as part of uk will be blocked.
    Actually EEA or EFTA would be best for indy Scotland and might placate scottish euroskeptics

  119. liz says:

    Thanks to all for the title and author, Project Fear, Joe Pike

  120. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    John Edgar says at 9:54 pm

    Does the Torygraph online quote the First Minister fully?


    “To be brutally frank about it, you can’t undermine something that doesn’t exist, and from everything I have heard today in Downing Street there isn’t yet a UK Government negotiating position.”

  121. ScottshPsyche says:

    In the event of Indyref2 it is surely incumbent on both sides to have access to the most accurate information.

    Would the SG be able to use legal means to get the true figures, after all why should they have to present a case based on estimates? If the No side say the White paper was wrong then allow access to all the figures to make a real case on both sides. If they are not prepared to do so, the public should be told why.

  122. Thepnr says:

    The Brexit talks will be over before they have even begun.

    Why? May has already made that obvious and so too have the EU politicians. There is NO common ground and no chance of a deal or settlement.

    The Tories have fucked up big time and now need to get out as quick as possible and have the Ukippers cheering them all the way.

    It really is to late for Britain to save face, the SG better be ready for this. It will happen soon is my prediction and no one will be smiling.

    The divorce will end in tears because the Brexit mob are fools. Fools.

  123. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “The stark truth is that there are only two equally sovereign kingdoms in the United Kingdom and there are three distinct countries in the Kingdom of England.”

    The stark truth is that, as it stands, a Scottish dog is more “sovereign” than a Scot. It can at least bite someone it doesn’t like.

    No, I have not been duped by Westminster propaganda.

    Tell me how the “sovereign” Scots can demand a referendum when THEY want one instead of waiting for the Scottish parliament to vote by a majority for it?

  124. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    .Nicely put, ScottieDog at 9:19pm!

  125. Meg merrilees says:

    Two possible billboards: –

    “If Scotland is a basket case subsidy junkie, why do they hold on to us?”

    “The United Kingdom is a Union of TWO SOVEREIGN KINGDOMS – England and Scotland are EQUAL.”

    Unionist bile flowing freely on the Comments page of the BBC report of the Sturgeon/May meeting. Over 2.5k comments and rising. Sturgeon a nationalist bigot/ accused of pompous posturing; already at least one offer to put her on top of their bonfire on Nov 5th and many more.

    How do these comments help the BBC contribute to upholding the Union!

    The sooner we’re out of all this Dirty Brexit mess, the better.

  126. Dr Jim says:

    For the folk who want the SNP to produce figures to prove or disprove something
    Other people produce plenty of figures on plenty of stuff, even respectable straightforward people sometimes, what do the Unionists do with every single one of those figures?
    they bring on some total numpty call them an expert and rubbish every number produced

    And that’s why the SNP don’t engage in it, it’s pointless and
    anyway most people don’t give a monkeys about figures they only care about what’s said about the credibility of the person delivering those figures whether they’re mince or not (dog food man)

    If jackie Bird looks into the pensioners eyes and says “respected” the oldies are sold, done deal
    You want to guarantee a win in the next referendum switch off the BBC and the Daily Record and you win it by a mile

    The last referendum even the Unionists knew the NO side was lying that’s not what they cared about, they cared about pensions, sectarianism and the fear of being on their own can

    Other than that Scotland couldn’t give a toss about politics and the ordinary voter would just as well not bother even voting if they could help it
    The NO folk don’t trust Westminster any more than us Yes folk do they’re just chicken shit feart and apathetic

    So they make up excuses to support their crap, and they know it’s crap
    But when this is all over they’ll blame Nicola Sturgeon no matter what happens because life’s just easier that way

  127. Can we all agree to never mention the “deficit ” without describing it as “Scotland’s UK deficit”?

  128. Jock McDonnell says:

    @Dr Jim

    Bang on as usual.

  129. yesindyref2 says:

    Mayhem at number 10!


    I needed that 🙂

  130. Gary Sinclair says:

    Breastplate – that quote from Charles Inglis is pure gold. Amazing that they’re still pumping out the same old nonsense an people are some falling for it i.e. most of the Scottish electorate in 2014. Great illustration of how centuries (not decades) of subjugation and indoctrination has deeply affected the mindset of the Scots. Och…

  131. louis.b.argyll says:

    ‘Undermining’ Brexit, as Scotland’s representatives are entitled to do..

    ..Could be called SCOTCH-IT.

  132. Peter says:

    Good info Stu.

    But the more intelligent (yes there are a few!) Yoons understand the point that GERS is produced for Scotland as part of the UK.

    But they ask me;

    What would change? Would tax go up? Would spending go down? What borrowing would be needed in iScotland?

    I find these harder to counter. What help can you give?

  133. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Describing folk as stupid is really going to convert them to yes???”

    I think we can safely count Kevin Hague as an unpersuadeable. But aren’t you in the Scottish Resistance? Glass houses come to mind.

  134. Stu Mac says:

    Peter says

    The answer is that it would depend on who got into power in an independent Scotland. One thing for sure with a proper PR system maintained (I can’t see FPTP making a comeback) there’s little chance of a right wing government hell bent on selling off our NHS and our education system. And whatever tax/borrowing done the spend would be much more likely to go to what is needed in Scotland as all controls would be up here and there would only be the Scottish voters to answer too – not UK parties.

Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

↑ Top