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Alex Cole-Hamilton Fact Check

Posted on December 24, 2017 by

The prissy, easily-upset and extravagantly-funded Lib Dem MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton tweeted this this morning:

Now, we’re not sure “you’ve had the government you’ve voted for about half the time in a two-horse race” would be all that great a selling point in the first place, but shall we see if it’s actually true, readers?

[SPOILER: IT’S NOT TRUE.]

This is a chart we printed in the 2014 Wee Blue Book:

…from which you can pretty quickly see that Cole-Hamilton is lying. Since 1945 the UK government has matched the one Scotland voted for just 10 times out of 20, not 12. (Scotland got a government it didn’t vote for in 1951, 1959, 1970, 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 2010, 2015 and 2017.)

And while we know BritNats are obsessed with World War 2, in terms of the argument 1945 is a pretty generous arbitrary starting point. Since Alex Cole-Hamilton has been alive (he was born in 1977), the figure is a mere 3 out of 10.

(What’s more, four of those 20 elections resulted in governments which didn’t make it halfway through their term, so a more honest figure even if you start from 1945 would be 7 out of 16 – or 6 out of 15 if you consider that the October 1974 election actually delivered a lame-duck hung parliament propped up by the Liberals.)

Updating the figures in the graphic, assuming the current government reaches its full term Scotland will have voted for Tory governments for 6 out of 77 years (and not since 1955, 62 years ago), but have had Tory governments for 47 out of 77 years.

It’s a kind of democracy, we suppose. But whichever way he might try to slice it, Alex Cole-Hamilton’s attempt to pretend Scotland gets what it wants more than half the time is a flat-out lie.

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    1. G says:

      Unionists are like children sitting in the back seat of a car with a plastic steering wheel. Occasionally, they turn it the same way as the driver and are convinced they are driving the car.

      Scotland only gets the government it votes for when it votes the same way as England, which by definition means voting for English parties.

    2. Clootie says:

      Alex lied…how unusual!

    3. jfngw says:

      This man is stupid enough to grab Willie Rennie’s crown, I think he sees himself as the next LibDem leader at Holyrood. He has more than the ample credentials, I admit that.

    4. Peekay says:

      Even if it was 12, it’s not exactly something to be proud of your country getting the government it voted for just over half the time.

    5. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Is Alex Cole-Hamilton a hologram programmed to robotically mouth a tissue of lies just like his fellow travelling BritNat projections onto Scotland’s body politic and the UK’s (oh, and Spain’s and the USA’s variations plus all the other countries of our world hijacked by his ilk)?

    6. Bentley says:

      Of course he lied, isn’t that standard practice and encouraged in the LiebDems with the arch liar Ian Carmichael getting away with it!

    7. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      FibDums.

      The Party of Carmichael.

      Always remember for BritNats it is OK to lie, cheat and steal from the electorate as long as it is in defence of the Union.

    8. G says:

      And that is why I will always vote Yes to independence. The arguments in favour of democracy as a system of government are the same as for being independent. The people might not get it right all of the time, but it is still the most likely way of getting good government. Having another country choose your governments is not democracy. And that applies even when you vote the same way as them.

    9. Marcia says:

      A chap with sharp elbows and nothing else.

    10. handclapping says:

      Ever since they went into Coalition with the Tories the LibDems have had a Leona Helmsley attitude to life. There must have been thorns in that Rose Garden and like the Sleeping Princess they have been infected by the Wicked Witch and turned Tory in their approach to truth and honour.

      And I dont see Willie as the Handsome Prince either.

    11. sassenach says:

      A double-barrelled lying balloon, with pretensions to grow into a buffoon.

      God, the LibDums really know how to pick them!

    12. robertknight says:

      Never let truth stand in the way of Yoon propaganda.

    13. Smallaxe says:

      Thanks Rev,
      Most of us enjoy a long “lie” on a Sunday.
      😉
      Seasons greetings and thank you for all that you do.

    14. Valerie says:

      But why is he a Tory Lab enabler?

      Why is he even bothered about defending the old hegemony at Westminster?

      As an honest broker (ok, suspend reality for a minute) a politician would argue how their policies would benefit the voters, not say this shite for other parties.

      Not only has he lied about the stat, he is duplicitous in his conduct in defending this arrangement, and troughing with the 2 main parties, who are dedicated to the Union and sod all else.

    15. Petra says:

      Not getting the Government that your country voted for on ONE occasion ONLY is an affront to democracy, never mind 10, 12 times or whatever. Add to that the political parties in question, including his own, committing electoral fraud on a grand scale to achieve their objective. His tweet in fact highlights that Independence for Scotland is long overdue.

    16. Bawheid Bragg says:

      The Lib Dems can’t count, but they do have “good lawyers”…

    17. Ian McCubbin says:

      He was well corrected by Eddi Reeder. I have Never had a government I voted for in more than 2 occassions.

    18. Returnofthemac says:

      Dislike everything about the man another nae joab politician. Has arrogance beyond words. He should just fck off and leave us to it. He wouldn’t be missed.

    19. Bob Mack says:

      He must be telling a lie—- his mouth is open. A sure sign of Unionists telling porkies.

    20. geeo says:

      The thing is, there were labour governments which we would have got (1997) no matter how Scotland voted.

      So we hardly even influence the result.

    21. Artyhetty says:

      Things could hardly be less democratic, bonny Scotland you really have been shafted and it won’t get any better while shackled to a disgusting so called union with your abuser.

      If only I could share this with my Britnat pals and neighbours, it’s just they seem very content to be subjugated, sidelined and second class subjects to their precious UKok.

      My Son left his bag on a train last night and had to start the process of submitting a lost item form. He tells me that the form has choices of, being from, North Britain, or Scotland. There must be a ‘from britain’ choice. The north britain bit covers the north of England apparently, though not that north, places like Manchester are in ‘north britain’ on the form. If you live in Newcastle, Manchester is practically in the south, of er, ‘britain’.
      We were quite perpelxed by that one!

      Have a lovely Xmas Stuart and all here at WoS.

    22. Dr Jim says:

      A liberal Democrat lied? Nah! not possible, how on earth could he get away with a thing like that, Ooops! can even get them convicted publicly in court for lying and they still get away with it, they just step outside the court and announce
      “I was exhonerated” “I’m innocent” No?, you’re guilty?
      “Yes but I’m innocent as well” LOLZ

      Liberal Democrats eh, what you gonna do with them, they’re such innocent wee souls

      That reminds me, must send Jo Swinson a big congratulations on her innocence as well, Oh aye and Nick Clegg… and

      Keyboard’s wearing away

    23. galamcennalath says:

      Well, I’ve never had a Westminster government I voted for and definitely never will, yet my chosen party is capable of winning in Scotland. For me, that says it all.

    24. Andy-B says:

      I could say that you should fact check all those yoon Britnat politicians in Scotland. However you’d have no time to expose other Britnat lies.

      The Britnat yoon politicians in Scotland spout any nonsense as true these days.

    25. geeo says:

      The Herald are running with Kezia Dugdale being sued by her ex girlfriend for £30,000 pertaining to the flat they bought together.

      The £25,000 case v the Rev is also mentioned as hanging over her.

      “The controversial pro indy blogger”….never miss a chance to taint the “enemy” do the media here..!

      Just so The Rev knows, there are a couple of individuals throwing the accusation of being a bigot, at the Rev in the btl comments.

    26. HandandShrimp says:

      To be fair dishonesty is compulsory for a Lib Dem even if they want to honest.

      Anyway, the argument has always been that Scotland gets what England votes for. That this occasionally matches what Scotland voted for is just a happy accident.

    27. Les Wilson says:

      Alex Cole-Hamilton
      Is just another arsehole among arseholes. Nothing to offer Scotland.

    28. HandandShrimp says:

      “Want to be honest”

      Although “want to honest” has a certain politician ring to it 🙂

    29. Andy Anderson says:

      Yet another Britnat lie. I bet his parents are really proud of him.

    30. Truth says:

      I’d like a unionist just once to explain to me what is wrong with getting the govt Scotland “backed” 100% of the time.

    31. John Brown says:

      He can’t count election results.
      He can’t count his election expenses.

      Not someone I can count on to represent me.

      ATory in disguise

    32. John Brown says:

      He can’t count election results.
      He can’t count his election expenses.

      Not someone I can count on to represent me.

      Self serving attention seeker & a Tory in disguise

    33. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      What are you all complaining about? This form of democracy works well in North Korea and China they don’t have a Wings over North Korea or a Wings over China do they? Whingers.

      I would offer however that it is rather odd that a Lib Dem defends the status quo basically arguing for the Tories and Labour to go on as they are.

      Why would that be now?

      Is the centre getting a little twitchy about the way things are moving are the daft Scots awakening to the fraud that is the English Nationalist run UK?

      I suspect as the polls move in Scotland’s favour we will see more cross party cooperation from the English Nationalists.

    34. Smallaxe says:

      Les Wilson says:

      “Alex Cole-Hamilton
      Is just another arsehole among arseholes”

      He’s still trying to find his own;
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB5jkTfPcDs&ab_channel=bigmanio
      🙂
      Have a peaceful Christmas, Les

    35. gordoz says:

      According to Alex Cole-Hamilton-

      Scotland gets what it wants in a kinda abusive relationship sort of way. If you see what I mean ?
      Lets not beat around the bush here.

      Jeezo; cant even read about a recent Panelbase poll showing near 50/50 on Indy in our ‘so called ‘free press anywhere ?

      Come on

    36. Hes been listening to Wullie Rennie s rantings far too often

    37. Fred says:

      @ Smallaxe, thanks for the MahatmaGinn blast from the past. The Marland Bar in George Street was his fav’ haunt!

    38. ronnie anderson says:

      The LibDumb that thinks we’re aw Dumb

    39. johnj says:

      It would be interesting to know how often England has had a government it didn’t vote for.

    40. Proud Cybernat says:

      Mr Cole-Hamilton, how often do the people of England get the government the majority of their people vote for?

      Getting the government the majority vote for in a country is normal democracy. That’s why Scotland wants to be normal. And independence is the normal state for a country. Dependence is for kids; kids with steering wheels in the back of the car, thinking they’re driving it.

    41. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Blimey…

      A dude who has Wullie The Rennie as his ‘leader’ expects anyone to listen to him?

      That’s a Christmas cracker!

      😉

    42. Smallaxe says:

      Fred,

      Noo he’s goat a pub named efter im’
      http://www.oldglasgowpubs.co.uk/mcginns.html

      Matt, Hamish Imlach and Hector Nichol are sorely missed, I’d like to hear their views on W/Minster today.

    43. Breeks says:

      Wee twist in the perspective…

      Bearing in mind the brazen subjugation of Scotland manifest in the McCrone Report, the 1979 Devolution Referendum, I nowadays find myself wondering to what greater or lesser extent the way Scotland voted has always been heavily influenced by the UK propaganda and media manipulation, but any such concerns have until now (perhaps) always been swept under the carpet.

      Our aspirations for Independence have been manipulated and bottled up for decades, and it’s only now that the media’s spell is beginning to loosen its grip. It certainly doesn’t stem from a weakened monopoly on rabid BritNat broadcasting, nor are we any less susceptible to deception, – Scotland has a great deal to thank social media for.

      I know it has the potential to upset folks, but I suspect there might be a correlation between the % of No votes amongst the elderly, and their casual access to modern social media. I know my own parents, even though supporting Independence, still held the BBC in misplaced esteem.

      And off topic kinda, I don’t approve of recent comments regarding restricting the right to vote amongst English immigrants. An English immigrant offers Scotland the same potential as any other European or indeed global citizen who wants to make Scotland their home. We indigenous Scots must never condemn the English for being English. Our job is to persuade them that Scotland’s Independence makes sense, is not an Anglophobic initiative, and properly done in our immediate context might very well become a vital lifeline for a lost and wayward England floundering somewhere mid Atlantic in heavy economic seas but finally coming to its senses.

      Nevermind how we voted, in the 20 general elections since the war, how many times was Scotland allowed to think for itself?

      But come to think of it, how many times was England?

      Scotland’s enemy is not the people of England, but forgive the use of a controversial word, the dark and manipulative BritNat “Zionism” which is rampant and uncompromising in UK Government and mainstream media which demands Scotland remains a subjugated component of the UK.

      In my experience, having spent some time in London and the West Country, most everyday English folks I met would regard Scottish Independence constructively. Most would wish us well and respect it as our prerogative. However, once the BBC and UK media goes to work on them, then all bets are off.

      Someone made a very incisive observation that the only safe seat UKIP has in the whole UK is the one on the BBC’s Question Time panel.

    44. Artyhetty says:

      The myth of ‘aye the SNP let Thatcher in’ still prevails to this day, in Scotland and south of the border.

      Since the tory snap election last year, and the scheming tories in Scotland winning seats, many are of the view that Scotland allowed the tories in then. It doesn’t compute that Scotland has had to put up and shut up with England’s choice of bad government for far too long, much to the detriment of Scotland.

      I hate injustice of any kind.

    45. I think the Brit nats rescued Dugdale they could not be seen to openly pay her future fines so hey presto she is suddenly invited on to the TVs., show I’m a celebrity etc., I they look after their own

    46. Effijy says:

      Lets look at the Lib Dems a bit closer-

      They have never delivered a majority for their party in over 100 years! Seems a pretty clear message from the UK electorate. They have little to offer and what there is isn’t wanted.

      Liberal leader Jeremy Thorpe tries to have his male lover assassinated before he sold his story. Cover up as normal
      by the Westminster Corruption team.

      How about their Lord Raynard being a sex pest as reported by their own Party members? Covered up as he pays them good money.

      How about the Liberal Donor Michael Brown who gave them £2.4 Million in donations from money he stole from people.
      The Liberals know he took the money by fraud, but as he gave it under a company name in Majorca, they are happy to keep it and those who lost out- well just too bad.
      Westminster corruption team came in to ensure they keep it.

      How about another more recent leader, I’m Farron, who believes that gay relationships are in-Godly and same sex marriages should not be allowed. This is the 21st Century.

      How about the biggest liar in Scotland, Alistair Carmichael.
      Tried to taint the reputation of our First Minister and French Diplomats by creating fictitious minutes of their meeting. Then wasted £1,000,000 on an Inquiry to prove himself a liar. Westminster Corruption team ensure that absolutely no action is taken against him????

      Liberal Malcom Bruce supports Carmichael by saying that Lying is just part and parcel of politics?
      I don’t want my country run by people who can claim to have delivered the biggest whopper to the electorate.
      Do you?

      How about the Liberals refusing to pay for policing at their Scottish Conference?
      Well it was costly bring up their supporters from England on a half day out from the nursing home.

      Scottish Liberal Leader, Wee Sweetie Wife Willie Rennie-
      enough said about their version of Coronation Streets Norris Cole.

      Now we hear from the Liberal Cole-Hamilton who would be ideal for their economy minister now that he has proved that he cannot count on his finger. Good Liar thought.

      No thanks Fib-Demons.
      Here’s to the next 100 years of nothing.

    47. wull2 says:

      When Scotland gets independence and the pound drops, it used to be a penny but with Brexit it is now a pound, the people in that country might just realise what they have lost.
      Vote YES next time.

    48. Dr Jim says:

      The Christmas shopping tale of life in Scotland

      May I have a Mars bar please? NO you may not, you’ll have a Twix and like it!
      But I’d rather have a Mars Bar and here’s my money
      You don’t get it do you, you’ll have a Twix and lump it because all the Mars Bars are for the other people, you know, the many not the few
      But all my whole family wants a Mars bloody Bar,,, Ha! Not even sorry, no chance, the other lot is having them coz there’s more of them than you nyea nyea ni nyea nyea

      OH for God sake awright then jis gaes the bloody Twix tut tut tut…

      Sorry only half a Twix left Lolz!

      Coz there’s more of them than the few of you

    49. Dan Huil says:

      He’s just another lying Britnat. Just sayin’.

    50. Petra says:

      @ Effijy at 1:34pm ….. “Libdem list.”

      Thanks for the reminder of the type of people we’re dealing with Effijy. You could also add Libdem paedophiles such as Sir Clement Freud and Sir Cyril Smith, who shared an office, to your list. I wonder what these two monsters discussed or watched together in ‘work time’? And then there’s the Libdems that attempted to cover up for them, such as Liz Lynne.

    51. jfngw says:

      Since I could first vote in 1974 I have had the government that Scotland voted for less than 36% of the time. From the age of 16 this reduces to less than 31% of the time. Democracy unionist style.

      Wales is probably the similar, and NI, well it would seem they don’t care as long as the receive the odd bung.

      Whereas in England since 1974 they have had the party they voted for (seats held) in government for almost 99% of the time. Just a short period between Feb-Oct 1974 as far as I can calculate. Although it is difficult to find the numbers for England as you just seem to be presented with the UK results when searching.

    52. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      It seems to me that the FibDems have lost all pretence to be a distinct political entity. Too precious to enter coalition with the SNP back in 2007, but desperate to get into bed with the Tories just a year or two later in 2011. Yet when they had that taste of power in London, one policy objective after another was jettisoned. Adding insult to injury, during IR1 we had to endure Liar Carmichael the Unionist Stooge.

      Nothing has changed since, not least in regard to Scottish autonomy.

      The core policy of the old Liberals here in Scotland used to be Home Rule. Yet where have they been on that for ages now? Nowhere. They were even against a 2nd question on “Devo Max” in IR1. Being a Unionist is one thing, but how could anyone who honestly believes that “devolution is a process, not an event” possibly remain a member of that hapless crew? Bought and sold by southern money, the likes of JRRT and (even possibly) the toffs’ last battalion, Scotland in Union.

      Cole-Hamilton seems all too typical of the remnant. He couldn’t even deliver a coherent speech in Parliament during the IR2 debate. Came to a juddering halt and had to be “rescued” by intervention from a Tory.

      Seems his family are of Irish Planter origins, according to Wikipedia. Now why was I not too surprised when I read that?

    53. galamcennalath says:

      Mind you, with FPTP the government which is formed, because it has most seats, is rarely the choice of the majority!

      2017 Tory 42.4%
      2015 Tory 36.8%
      2010 Tory 36.2% LibDem 23.0% = 59.2%
      2005 Labour 35.2%
      2001 Labour 40.7%
      1997 Labour 43.2%
      1992 Tory 41.9%
      1987 Tory 42.2%

      It rarely gets anywhere near half. The only example in recent times was the 2010 coalition.

      Usually FPTP WM governments have literally no mandate, yet the perverse antiquated system allows them to rule.

      I cannot imagine the UK ever becoming a democracy by any modern definition. It has unelected lawmakers, seats reserved for clergy, and a perverse FPTP system which means losers win. This reality plays a large part in my support for Scottish independence. I would like to live part of my life in a representative democracy!

    54. jfngw says:

      As it’s xmas maybe we should give Mr Cole-Hamilton the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he is not a liar but just stupid. Let him clarify which one he is, after all being stupid is not unique amongst politicians. He would join a vast selection that try to give the impression they are more intelligent than they are.

    55. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez!

      Open face, insert leg. Mr Cole-Hamilton keeping a Sterling Fibdem tradition there. 😀 LOL

    56. jfngw says:

      Just to add, you could argue that Labour was the largest individual party in the 1951 & 55 elections in Scotland since the Conservative total was actually a coalition of parties.

    57. Paul Wilson says:

      Can someone please tell me what is the point of the LibDums they done a stitch up deal with the Tories had a short term pact with Labour in the 70’s but haven’t been in office on their own for over 100 years does that not tell them something!

    58. starlaw says:

      Cole Hamilton is an attention seeker, he requested a visit to a nearby sheltered housing complex he turned up with a retinue including photographer. The photographer was not permitted entry, the visit was soon over and he met with no residents. He was obviously just there for the publicity.

    59. liz says:

      Signing off for Christmas.

      All the best to the Wings family and the Rev.
      Thanks for all the articles and the interesting conversations.

      Hopefully indyref2 soon.

    60. gus1940 says:

      I see that a bunch of the swivel-eyed species of Tories has suggested that after Brexit The UK should Charge Europeans £10 a head for entry visas.

      Let’s think about that and wonder just how effing stupid these cretins are – as the inevitable response from The EU is that they will charge UK citizens £10 or Euro equivalent for entry visas.

      One really has to wonder how such idiots manage to get themselves elected or even selected as candidates in the first place.

    61. What is the point of the Lib Dems?
      This Coca Cola Hamilton is the latest in the long line of Blue Tories in Yellow cloaks.
      Like cola, he’s sickly sweet, an offers nothing.
      Happy Christmas, all ye Wingers.
      Rennie and his wee bunch of time wasters days are surely numbered.
      Cole Hamilton? I look at him and think:- the lights are on, but he’s out.
      Yet another freebooter on the make.

    62. Giving Goose says:

      “The point” of the LibDems is to fool the Scottish electorate into believing that there is choice in the political system.

      There is not!

      The political choice is between an increasingly right wing Westminster or Independence.

    63. gus1940 says:

      As far as men’s sartorial appearance is concerned there is a fine line between being smartly dressed and appearing like a tailor’s dummy and Cole Hamilton falls into the latter category.

      I have always been deeply suspicious of men who dress like tailors’ dummies.

    64. yesindyref2 says:

      Cole-Hamilton : “In the 20 general elections since 1945 Scotland has backed the winning party 12 times.

      Very interesting statement in itself, and shows how much Scotland has diverged from the rest of the UK (largely England) over the last 72 years.

      To a large extent (from memory, I can’t be bothered analysing it again), up till the late 60s, Scotland likely did vote similarly to the rest of the UK, even including the LibDems.

      Since the late 60s Scotland firstly voted Labour more and more, with the Conservative vote reducing steadily from around 50%, with the rUK voting Labour less and less, but more recently of course having a large vote for the SNP which don’t stand in the rest of the UK. And in the last General Election the Scottish Conservative vote increased, whereas the rUK one went the other way.

      In fact the General Election in 2017 shows even more the difference between Scotland and the rUK. The UK as a whole voted a total of 87.5% for the two “main” UK parties Labour and Conservative, whereas in Scotland the total for those two parties was much lower at 55.7%.

      So basically speaking what Cole-Hamilton is saying is that Scotland is in effect a “third country” in terms of UK politics.

    65. yesindyref2 says:

      By comparison in Wales, 82.5% voted for those two “main” parties, which shows the problem PC have to break through, or Indy for Wales itself.

    66. galamcennalath says:

      A tweet from WoS twitter hits the nail on the head precisely. Worth reposting here, I think …

      Ya’akov Sloman
      @yaakovsloman
      Scotland: We need independence because we consistently choose different national policies than Westminster which we can’t influence democratically.

      Westminster: No, you need to stop being different.

      …. that really is the Westminster solution to the Scottish democratic deficit – if Scots just adopted English style politics, views, and aspirations, then the problem would go away.

      There might be a twist in it, though. The last thing they want is for the English to begin to adopt Scottish style politics, views, and aspirations!

    67. Davy says:

      To me the “libdems” are like NITS, just an embarrassment that sometimes returns.

    68. Capella says:

      I liked this Michael Stewart tweet re which country has backed the winning party EVERY time. which is how democracy is supposed to work.

      https://twitter.com/mstewart_23/status/944941279380721665

    69. Capella says:

      Also, while rifling through Stu’s twitter – this great cartoon from Finland:

      https://twitter.com/JoolsBell55/status/944876099380613120

    70. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      yesindyref2 at 4.03

      That is the direct consequence of PC deciding to campaign for devo rather than independence. Some “clever” folk in the SNP wanted the SNP to campaign for devolution rather than independence (and sadly they have blood brothers in the movement even today) but the SNP wisely continued campaigning for independence and as as support for indy increased they got devolution conceded to try to head it off.

    71. Hamish100 says:

      DMcE Hill

      the lesson learned is never go for 1/2 way houses.

    72. Clapper57 says:

      Merry Xmas to the Rev and to all who post on this site.

    73. geeo says:

      @galamcennalath 2.28pm

      You missed a 2015 stat….

      SNP 50% vote share. !!

    74. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 16:41,

      Yes, that’s the irony. If you were a Unionist who genuinely believed in devo, best plan would have been to campaign for indy. Only with the threat of separation have the establishment centralisers conceded anything.

      And once the “threat” of independence was dismissed (as the centralisers mistakenly thought), we had – guess what? – the Great Smith Betrayal.

      Until people wake up and finally realise that there is no serious compromise on autonomy ever going to happen. Unionism doesn’t know how. Like the American colonies back when, like Scotland now.

      The English establishment (and its Scottish cronies) may finally realise their historical error when we wave them bye-bye.

    75. Les Wilson says:

      O/T for those interested, I came across this, it is the names
      of those who sold Scotland out in 1707, along with what they were
      paid and rough values today, interesting to know how much we were sold for.
      http://unknownscottishhistory.com/articlefive.php

    76. galamcennalath says:

      geeo says:

      You missed a 2015 stat….

      SNP 50% vote share. !!

      My stats were for the UK/WM as a whole highlighting that it’s rarely democratic at a UK level.

      However, you are right to draw attention to the exceptional situation where the SNP managed to get half in Scotland. I believe no party has achieved that in England or the whole UK in living memory.

    77. Marie Clark says:

      Been busy and not a lot of time for posting this last few weeks.
      Another lib-dum waste of space, so what’s new.

      Anyway to all Wingers. have a very Merry Christmas. Cheers.

    78. galamcennalath says:

      Les Wilson says:

      …those who sold Scotland out in 1707 ….what they were
      paid and rough values today, interesting to know how much we were sold for.

      Jings! At a stretch I’m sure achieve those sums (today’s value) with a crowd fund!

    79. msean says:

      I’d like my Scotland to get the government it voted for 100% of the time. In the UK,we may at times elect the same party,but the that party will inevitably look to it’s main power base ie Middle England. Surely we all remember that term.

    80. msean says:

      I’d like my Scotland to get the government it voted for 100% of the time. In the UK,we may at times elect the same party,but the that party will inevitably look to it’s main power base ie Middle England. Surely we all remember that term from the last Labour government.

    81. John H. says:

      A Merry Christmas to you all, whatever your opinion might be. 🙂

    82. Capella says:

      @ Les Wilson – that looks like a very small conversion rate for a 300 year old bribe.
      But the “parcel of rogues” also agreed to take on England’s debt and so the people of Scotland will have paid back the Bank of England for the cheques, with interest.

    83. Clootie says:

      ”’or in summary.

      We get whatever Emgland votes for. They get their choice ever time, UK democracy today as planned for and shaped in 1707.

    84. G H Graham says:

      Imagine ordering roast chicken at a restaurant and the waiter delivers instead, pan seared duck.

      But you keep coming back because the management claims it is better than the alternative; starting your own restaurant and getting the exact meal you ordered every single time.

      This is the argument glaikit chumps like Hamilton & his extremist friends in Westminster want you to accept.

    85. jfngw says:

      In my opinion the number of elections are irrelevant, it’s the number of years that count. Elections from 1974 gives it 50%, but some these parliaments were shorter. Using years gives under 36% if you calculate from 1974 to 2022 (next election, maybe!).

      A bit like having your birthday on 29th Feb, you don’t have many actual birthdays but the years still count.

    86. Robert Peffers says:

      @G says: 24 December, 2017 at 11:15 am:

      “Having another country choose your governments is not democracy”

      I keep saying it but few seem to listen.

      We are debating NOT four countries in this matter and as long as we continue looking at the matter as if it is a matter of four countries we will continue to fail to convince a majority of unionist voting Scots to change their views. Because these unionists, (wrongly), regard their country as being Britain, (and many actually often say England when they refer to The United Kingdom).

      The title of the Westminster government is NOT “THE British Government”, as Britain actually has no unified Government and four of the eight distinct countries of Britain are independent of the Westminster Parliament.

      The term UK is the initial letters of the term, “United Kingdom”, which neither describes the government of the entirety of Britain nor does it describe a unified country.

      It describes a political union of only two, equally sovereign, formerly independent, kingdoms. Namely the one country Kingdom of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England.

      It is only nominally the three country Kingdom of England that dictates the United Kingdom Government that Scotland gets. This because Westminster does not function as an actual bipartite kingdom’s government. Westminster functions as ONLY the de facto parliament of the Country of England.

      Yet there has not been an, elected as such, parliament of the country of England since 1284 when the Kingdom of England annexed the Principality of Wales and then again in 1542 when the Kingdom of England annexed the Kingdom of Ireland. England has never legally annexed the Kingdom of Scotland.

      However, Westminster then split up the bipartite United Kingdom along the lines of countries by actually devolving the country of England’s sovereignty to the three non-England countries but note that power devolved is power retained and, as such, may be taken back at Westminster’s will.

      So we now have an unelected as such Parliament of the Country of England, that assumes it is the master country, that actually has no elected country of England Parliament that forces its will upon its only legal partner kingdom in the United Kingdom and treats it as if it is on a par with the defeated in war Princedom of Wales and the defeated in war Kingdom of Ireland.

      Yet legally Westminster is the government of a bipartite union of kingdoms titled, “The United Kingdom”, which is , “A”, British Government but not, as it so often describes itself, “THE”, British Government.

      Never fear though, Rock will be along just shortly to tell you all otherwise and a whole bunch of you will give him the dignity of engaging with him and as long as independence supporters cannot accept that legally there are only two equally sovereign partner kingdoms in the United Kingdom and who continue to talk about countries the problem of cutting the KINGDOM of Scotland from The United KINGDOM will remain in limbo.

    87. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      But on voting generally given the Scottish Government’s new powers re the electoral system.

      http://archive.is/Mpc1j

      ” One lesson from these pilots, drawn from my evaluation, was that it was actually all-postal elections that could have the biggest effect on turnout. This involved sending a postal vote to citizens automatically instead of asking them to go to the polling station. In the first year of pilots (2000), all-postal voting took place in wards in seven local authorities, and turnout rose in every instance on the previous year ”

    88. mike cassidy says:

      My tongue in someone else’s cheek xmas present to Wingers everywhere.

      Lean to the right, indeed!

      http://archive.is/5AyCG

    89. Ghillie says:

      Rev Stu, thank you =)

      G @ 11am = )

      gallamcennalath @ 12.08 pm, I too, and many folk here too I expect, have NEVER had the party I voted for take power in Westminster.

      The government of the UK at Westminster has NEVER served me or my famiy. Not good enough.

      The SNP who brave Westmonster, thank you =)

      And our Scottish Govenment =) thank you =)

      Jockanese Windtalker: FibDums! =)

      Proud Cybernat and Capella @ 4.27 pm Yes, liked Michael Stewart’s tweet too that a country should be able to vote for the winning party EVERY time, THAT is how democracy works!!

      Smallaxe, Artyhetty, liz, Jack Collatin, Clapper57 and John H Merry Christmas to you 2 =)

      And to all on Wings, wishing you all a really lovely Christmas xxx

    90. Graeme says:

      Looking at the link Les Wilson posted
      http://unknownscottishhistory.com/articlefive.php

      The total price for Scotlands sovereignty amounted to £20,369 approx £2.9m in todays value, that had to be the sale of the centuary

    91. Mike d says:

      The uk gets the government england votes for. And the sweaties can suck it up. For the love of jeezus will ye ever get up off your bended knees.

    92. jfngw says:

      At the end of this parliament (2022) Scotland will have been under Tory rule for around 56% of the previous 60 years (1962-2022). In this 60 years Scotland has returned a majority of Tories for 0% of this time.

      What other country would be ruled for over half the time by a party that has never achieved a majority in most peoples living memory. For Scotland this is not democracy.

    93. Nana says:

      O/T

      Popping in to wish you all a Happy and peaceful Christmas.
      Hope Santa brings you all you wish yourselves.

    94. Mike d says:

      Hope everyone here has a merry xmas and a peaceful and prosperous new year.

    95. Capella says:

      Merry Xmas Nana – hope those typing fingers have a good rest and plenty of cheer. Smallaxe has posted some links today so we are not entirely linkless.

    96. Nana says:

      @Capella

      Good on Smallaxe, it’s terrific to see him back.

      You have a good festive break as well Capella. Cheers [hic hic]

    97. Les Wilson says:

      Capella says:
      Yes indeed, when I read the “Union” doc wording I saw that, I was spitting blood. Also some who sold us for that sum, did not even get it.

      However this article was specific in who the tractors were and the sums the agree to. As a matter of Interests,some of these, at least their families,are still in place to this day.

    98. Capella says:

      Rob Roy is a great film highlighting some of the nasty aristocrats and their double dealing ways.

      Great cast with Liam Neeson in the title role. Photography spectacular. The amazing thing is that the redcoats were combing through the highlands spreading misery in 1713 – two years even before the 1715 rising.

      I watched it on Netflix but there are clips on youtube such as this one of Karen Matheson singing one of the Gaelic songs to a backdrop of scenes from the film.

      Probably won’t be broadcast on BBC anytime. It’s been around since 1995.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJMC2keqX_0

    99. David Caledonia says:

      I have never voted for a government that sits in London, and that’s close on 50 years of voting in every general election

      Alba Gu snooker loopy!

    100. colin alexander says:

      Wishing all the Wingers – even the rude yins – a Merry Christmas and peaceful and prosperous 2018, when it comes.

    101. Macart says:

      @Nana

      All the very best of the festive season to you and yours Nana. 🙂

      A Merry Christmas Wingers.

    102. caz m says:

      Wishing The Rev Ronnie Ian and all the rest of the Wings gang a merry xmas and a happy new year.

      Let’s hope Nicola gives us the date for IndyRef2 in the not too distant future,

      here’s hopin’

      All the best everyone.

    103. Nana says:

      @ Macart

      Merry Crimbo Sam.

    104. iain says:

      Freedom awaits, a happy Christmas and a great new year to all wingers.
      The end is neigh for the empire.

    105. Dr Jim says:

      Good health and a good Christmas to all even the Unionists
      We-e-ll, they might as well have a good Christmas this year,
      next year, not so much

    106. Lanarkist says:

      Merry Christmas Rev Stu and all contributors, lurkers and independent minded people who have helped me remain sane this past year.

      May all our dreams come true!

    107. ScottieDog says:

      Merry Christmas to all and the very best for 2018!

    108. sassenach says:

      Best Seasonal wishes to all.

      Thanks, especially, to the Rev for providing the usual quality of media debunking, what would we do without it?

      Onwards and upwards next year, folks.

    109. Artyhetty says:

      O/T
      With a free few hours or so, trying to catch up with watching stuff. Watched a film on National Library of Scotland ‘movingimage’ about James Nairn, film maker and moving image innovator extraordinaire, amazing guy, can’t find much info about him online.

      However, somehow I came across a very short clip of a film, titled, ‘CONFERENCE REPORT, TORIES AT AYR’. 1974. Ted Heath, and it’s er, all about a ‘Scottish assembly’. A wee bit worth a watch. These films are in copyright so can’t be shared, but you can find them by going to the NLS site and movingimage section.

      Also watched the short film with Dr. T.J Honeyman, Art and Audacity, 1971, and his utter frustration that the Burrell collection was kept hidden away. Funny that.

      With a possible new centre proposed for film, outskirts of Edinburgh, the likes of James Nairn and others should be commemorated. His cinema, the Playhouse in Inverness, was burnt down, early 1970s,he says it was not an accident, be interesting to find out more about it.

      No doubt some here will have heard of Nairn, and Honeyman, and be a wee bit familiar with Heath.

    110. Artyhetty says:

      Re Capella @8.53pm

      Oo great, Rob Roy on Netflix, great to know. I have a thin book, called ‘The persecutions in Scotland, 1603-1685’. I bought a while back, in Wigtown, as you do, it’s harrowing, but interesting how the Scots were so freaking cruelly treated by their neighbours. A bit like some treat animals even today. 🙁

      OK,enough, just have a great xmas all. Promise to take a few hours break from politics and stuff, lol.

    111. Thepnr says:

      Merry Xmas Rev and to all that frequent Wings, keep your spirits up and be ready for phase 2. It’s a coming fir awe that.

    112. Fireproofjim says:

      Grateful thanks to Stuart for the incredible work which he puts in, Year after year he puts up a near single handed fight against the lies of the Media. The best reporter in the land.
      I remain in awe of his energy and dedication.
      Merry Christmas to Stuart and to all wingers.

    113. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The following link is to part of an episode of ‘Scotland’s Story’, an STV production based on the book by Tom Steel.

      (Strangely, took me a while to find this – doesn’t appear in YT in response to the above terms but used to be instantly accessible. It’s been linked-to several times in WOS…?)

      It addresses some of the questions raised further upthread, features interviews with some of the direct descendants of ‘the parcel’, and has a young Brian Cox in it. What more could ye ask for on Christmas Eve?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2RP937mVaE

    114. Thepnr says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Just watched your link and am amazed that such a programme would be made though of course that was before Independence was even remotely possible.

      All these Lords and Earls seemingly speaking up for Scotland and telling how it had been mistreated under the Union was an eye opener. Even though it was just over 5 minutes long you get the message right away.

      There is no chance of a program like that being made now, I’ve had a taste and am off now to find the whole programme. If I do I’ll stick up a link. Good find.

    115. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s Linda Colley on why ‘Scotland Was Never A Colony’.

      Some of those who have been spouting profusely on matters identity-related may want to have a swatch at this (esp between 3.40 – 6.00 mins) before returning to offer apologies and/or Yuletide greetings to one another…

      Know what ah mean, ya bams?

      Ho-ho-fekkin-ho…

      😉

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TL7HlOzMJ4

    116. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Thepnr –

      That’s what I’m saying Alex – I can’t find it any more, not on Youtube anyway, and I’ve *definitely* posted that same link here previously. I have vague memories of watching the whole episode, because it returns again and again to the same people. It *does* exist.

      I hope you find it brother – ahm off tae ma scratcher!

      Have a guid yin tae yersel, and aw bestest tae the family.

      Likewise tae aw Wingers!

      Night-all!

      😉

    117. yesindyref2 says:

      Merry Christmas!

    118. ronnie anderson says:

      To All Wingers & Lurkers wherever yous may be, Enjoy the Winter Solstice celebrations wie Whisky Wine or Beer & never stop posting on here .

    119. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I’ve just posted this in the place I tend to hang out.

      Well, it’s Christmas Day.

      A Merry Christmas to all ‘off-topic’ Wingers. Two pieces of music for you, featuring one ‘John Lennon’. Sorry for the negativity but that’s where the planet is jiss noo.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY7gPcDFwQc

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7meAXUguTQo

      And a happy new year…

      Onnyhoo, the way things are going, I can hear the nation tonight. Let’s be positive:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Gr1KxLEBY

    120. Dramfineday says:

      Happy Christmas to you all.

    121. Lenny Hartley says:

      Seasons greetings to all , posters, lurkers and especially the Rev for keeping me sane.
      All the best for 2018, now we have almost got the boring 2017 out of the way, can’t wait to see what 2018 brings. ???

    122. Thepnr says:

      If any of you watched the excellent Ian Brotherhood link well I’m busy searching for the full program and it’s not proving to be easy.

      Scotland’s Story was a 24 part documentary made in 1984 by director Tom Steel. I’d never heard of the man but by all accounts was a great film maker.

      https://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/aug/07/guardianobituaries.broadcasting

      The full list of episodes can be read here.

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1537149/episodes?season=1&ref_=tt_eps_sn_1

      Episode 1 was “North Britons?” I suspect the ? mark in the title was deliberate.

    123. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thenpr , how’s it going? I might have the story of Scotland on Video, I recorded it at the time and unless it got thrown out in a house move it will be up the loft somewhere.
      There was also an accompaning weekly magazine which I subscribed to so they will be up the loft as well!

    124. twathater says:

      A very merry Christmas to all on Wings and special thanks to Stu , we don’t always agree with one another but our aim is the same A Free prosperous compassionate country for all

    125. John Moss says:

      Have a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

    126. Baldeagle58 says:

      O/T
      Merry Christmas, Rev.
      Thanks for all you’ve done throughout 2017. (Didn’t you think it was going to be a ‘slow’ year)
      All the Best to You and Yours for 2018.

      Merry Christmas to all ‘Wingers’ as well.
      Have a restful Christmas break, especially you Nana. Thanks for all the work you do providing us with ‘links’ to go with our morning coffee! 🙂

    127. gus1940 says:

      While everybody’s attention has been diverted by Damien Green’s sacking these sneaky buggers at Tory HQ have sneakily released the news that all the other Tory perverts who were being investigated have been cleared – Surprise, Surprise!!!!

    128. HandandShrimp says:

      Merry Christmas folks. Have a good one.

    129. David Caledonia says:

      How far is it to Bethlehem?
      Not very far.
      Shall we find the stable-room
      Lit by a star?

      Can we see the little child
      Is he within?
      If we lift the wooden latch
      May we go in?

      May we stroke the creatures there,
      Ox, ass, or sheep?
      May we peep, like them, and see
      Jesus asleep?

      If we touch his tiny hand
      Will he awake?
      Will he know we’ve come so far
      Just for his sake?

      Great kings have precious gifts,
      And we have nought,
      Little smiles and little tears
      Are all we brought.

      For all weary children
      Mary must weep.
      Here, on his bed of straw
      Sleep, children, sleep.

      God in his mothers arms
      Babes in the byre
      Sleep, as they sleep who find
      Their heart’s desire.

    130. Ron Maclean says:

      Linda Colley/Scotland Was Never A Colony

      Sponsored waffle from the cartographers of ‘Skintland’.

    131. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Ron Maclean –

      The reason I put up the Linda Colley link is because – whether she’s being paid or not – her overall position seems to be that the ‘UK’ is, and always has been, a military/trade arrangement. Colonisation, at home and abroad.

      She couches it all in pleasantly academic tones, but the central message is clear enough for those who listen – if it helps the undecided make their minds up and/or softens the stance of staunch Naysayers, fair play. I’m thinking of how Scottish unionists might view it – how their English peers feel about Colley’s take is of precisely zero interest to me.

    132. gus1940 says:

      The BBC are obviously aware that viewing figures for Betty’s Xmas Broadcast have crashed over the last few years.

      Whereas previously the broadcast’s content was not disclosed in advance they are obviously determined that we get her ‘message’ by bombarding us with a summary of the content in advance in every news bulletin together with coverage of the freeloaders going to church.

      No doubt we shall be treated to the usual platitudes about The Commonwealth (soon to become British Empire2).

      I may be wrong but it seems to me that the only time said Commonwealth is ever mentioned is in The Xmas Broadcast, every 4 years for the Games and when they hold a Commonwealth Conference.

    133. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “Never fear though, Rock will be along just shortly to tell you all otherwise and a whole bunch of you will give him the dignity of engaging with him and as long as independence supporters cannot accept that legally there are only two equally sovereign partner kingdoms in the United Kingdom and who continue to talk about countries the problem of cutting the KINGDOM of Scotland from The United KINGDOM will remain in limbo.”

      You are an aggressive verbal bully here and almost certainly a nasty person in real life.

      And like all bullies, you are a coward who runs away the moment he is challenged.

      If you are as clever as you think, why don’t you have your own site to flog your “knowledge”?

      Instead of contaminating every article on someone else’s website with your verbal diarrhoea.

      Why haven’t you ever written a book on the history of the union?

    134. David Caledonia says:

      I got my card from Nicola, ofc she did not send it personally, but it takes pride of place in my living room
      I will leave everything to Nicola and all the guys and gals who support us in that nice big building in Edinburgh, its better inside that out, but its allways been a pleasure to visit it when i go and visit the capital, sorry if i don’t comment on a lot of stuff here, but frankly my dears, long winded posts are not for me, not that i’m complaining about them, but once i have read a book i see no need to keep reading it, and i suppose most people are of the same mind, so if anyone has something to say that we have not read before somewhere else, please feel free as i for one would like to read it, but until i see some new contributers i am afraid my visits will be very short and sweet

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      🙂



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