A day of shame
Multiple journalists are now reporting that no matter what the result of the Western Isles count tomorrow, UKIP have pipped the SNP, by a narrow margin, to Scotland’s sixth European Parliament seat.
Scots, you just let David Coburn speak for you on an international stage. Well done.
Unionists are, of course, already gloating, and indeed had been before the result:
Meanwhile, in you-couldn’t-make-it-up news, the Scotland correspondent of the Guardian described an election the SNP won as a “severe blow to Alex Salmond”:
For what it’s worth, in the grand scheme of things, they’re wrong. Tonight’s results DON’T undermine the idea that Scotland and the rest of the UK have fundamentally different attitudes. UKIP have come fourth in Scotland with under 10% of the vote, but first in the UK as a whole with what looks like being around 30%. That’s still a pretty huge difference in political cultures.
All the same, a lot of people in Scotland will be feeling pretty sick in the morning.
Cant believe that my area, Renfrewshire, UKIP polled 12%. A party that is more Tory than the Tories jeez.
Without a doubt, there are some truly hateful people in Scotland.
Fuckin hell Scotland
I’m not sick. It’s nothing to do with ME, Scotland or anybody I klnow. Without the endless vote ukip on the bbc, they’d never have got enough votes.
And now Scotland only has 5 MEP’s who are actually going to turn up and do any work. Fewer than Malta.
Ukip are going to suffer the same fate as the bnp next time round. Free country or still a slave state. Properly informed tactical voting will exterminate them.
As for the referendum. We’ve just seen labour thrashed less than a year from the General Election. UKIP and the Cameroons with the majority of the vote in EnglandWales. Just how much more evidence to people need that there will be no labour government to deliver their fairyland devolution promises.
Perhaps it’s for the best. Maybe seeing their country represented by a racist, carpet-bagging fuck-knuckle from London will wake folk up to realise how important a Yes vote actually is.
Absolutely disgusting.
A Tory/UKIP coalition for 2015 – looks like they will be all for Devo Max for Scotland – not !
All credibility has gone from Danny Alexander and Alistair Carmicheal – the LibDems have no mandate to negotiate for Scotland anymore.
AS was good – I can sense trouble for BBC in the near future.
This is a sickening result. Why would people in Scotland vote for a party that is bigoted and openly looks down on Scotland and Scots?
Scotland has been tarnished tonight by thousands of its people. Disgusted with all who made it happen.
The political wing of the BBC seems to have done well.
Courtesy of Peter Curran, the First Minister complaining about the BBC giving four times the coverage to UKIP it gave to the SNP over the last month in Scotland –
EU elections: Salmond and Curtice disagree on interpretation of results
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur2GRU3jK2c
I have no alcohol left in the house. Fuck.
Can’t believe so many Scots were dumb enough to vote UKIP. Unbelievable. Might be 4th place, but they should have been dead last.
Reckon that the SNP were about 33,000 votes short of getting a third MEP. Lib Dem seat has fallen to UKIP.
As for a number of smug unionists wanting a UKIP MEP – you now have one in Scotland to represent you.
It pains me to say it but on votes so far (WI still to declare) UKIP have 10.46% Scottish votes – not under 10% as stated in the article.
Beaker on now looking like death warmed up. Wiped out in Scotland and well rid.
And UKIP now have exactly 1. That’s ONE elected representative in Scotland. ONE out of 1416 (ONE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED AND SIXTEEN).
Stick your shame up your arse and get back to kicking the shit out of the unionist scumbags.
Its very weird listening to Jim Naughty on BBC R4 call Alex Salmond Robert Mugabe over and over.
I wish these creeps at the BBC would just come out and declare themselves BetterTogether.com and stop mocking Scotland but Jim did explain why the BBC has given UKIP so much coverage. Its all to do with showing Scotland that Scotland is no different from England, so vote NO.
Jim’s really excited about UKIP win in Scotland!
What a bunch.
Too right, Bunter. How much BS can he spout before even Dimblebum gets bored?
Bear in mind the turnout was half of what it will be in September. Are the people who didn’t turn out last week going to be impressed by the UKIP performance and decide to vote No? I’m inclined to think not.
I can’t understand how SNP maintaining its vote share and the lib dems getting trashed is a ‘blow to the SNP’. The 3rd seat was always going to be a long shot. I’m just disappointed that only 1/3 of the people eligible to vote did vote.
This is a very disappointing result, but it has doubled my motivation to campaign for a yes vote.
This should be a wake-up call to anyone who isn’t already volunteering for their local Yes/WFI/RIC/whatever group.
*DISCLAIMER: I REALISE SOME PEOPLE HAVE LEGITIMATE REASONS FOR NOT DOING SO ALREADY*
Do whatever you can, folks. If this result makes you feel a bit shit, then it’s absolutely nothing compared to how we’ll all feel if it’s a No vote in September. Personally, I’m just glad I didn’t vote for the Greens, like I was tempted to do, because I would be cursing myself now*. I don’t want to look back after a No vote and think “if only I’d done that door-chapping that time” or “why did I let a little bit of rain put me off that day?”
*That’s not to say the Greens are to blame here, but I’m sure there were folk who thought the SNP were nailed-on for a third and lent their vote to the Greens instead – I almost did it, so I’m sure others actually did it.
farage calling it a breakthrough in Scotland
lol
it was the non voters,many SNP voters didn’t show
It’s a shame, but with the co-ordinated media love-in for UKIP, headed up by their media wing at the BBC, it’s still somewhat pleasing that 89.5% of Scots voters rejected them.
Just wish it was 100%.
Danny (Tory) Boy looks as sick a a parrot – oh dear.
I am looking forward to his robust presentation of George Osbourne’s finance paper later this week.
He and Carmichael are just Tory whipping boys and will end up as the fall-guys. Someday soon they may realise this – perhaps not. They must be the dumbest politicians in history.
Maybe BT should let Nigel Farage take the lead in the No Campaign – it cannot get any worse.
p.s. Greens do not worry – vote the way you want to. Just reflect on how much publicity you get on MSM and the BBC and compare it to UKIP.
There is of course a simple way to rid ourselves of UKIP – for ever. Vote Yes in September.
By all that is sacred how can the unionists who were throwing accusations of racism etc at UKIP now be rubbing their hands with glee because we have an anti Eoropean extremist representing us.
I voted Green Party!
From the look of the BBC Map showing Scotland the seat for UKIP was won because of the South of Scotland, Which to me seems to make sense. though I don’t know much about it and am absolutely tired and can’t stay up any longer since I’m tired and I don’t want to hear anymore about UKIP. and how the BBC talked more about UKIP in Scotland then…………..
The UKIP vote in Scotland is still way smaller than England.
True enough, but it doesn’t stop the BBC leading with their one seat as headline news, not the fact that the SNP came first.
It is shameful. I confess to being very surprised and disappointed. I honestly did not believe that so many would vote for UKIP. Quite depressed tonight 🙁
Well done to all the lefties who encouraged people to vote Green to keep UKIP out. They just had to stick it to the SNP for some reason. Had to watch this encouraging people to vote Green these last 2 wks on social media arguing (based upon that crap Greens poll) that it was the Greens vs UKIP. Well done. 7000 votes over to the SNP and there would have been no UKIP in Scotland. Those who voted Greens for ideals – fine but those who encouraged peole to vote Green or tactical reasons, well done on helping get UKIP in to Scotland.
Colin Morrison – I’ve tried not to get into this way of thinking, but I’m starting to belive that some of these British Nationalists aren’t fighting independence on principle or even self-interest. I’m starting to think some of them really just don’t like Scotland at all.
Doug
You are right – the Greens are not to blame. I certainly don’t have a problem with folks wishing to vote for the Greens, but, the warnings were there and it seems they were correct – if you didn’t want UKIP, the only way was to vote SNP because of the “handicapping” in the proportional system.
I am presuming, at this time, that the prediction for the sixth seat is correct and I am horrified if this is so. In fact, I am horrified that they have polled more than a few protest votes.
Do people realise that they have just voted for an extreme right wing party (I don’t like extreme anything)and are aiming their ire at the wrong target, namely ordinary, working people whether or not they are immigrants. How easily they forget who was responsible for the midden in which the UK finds itself.
Nick Gilligan has just suggested to B Taylor that the BBC have been accused of being responsible for the Mr Farage’s success because they have shoved him in our faces.
Disgusted.
I’m not actually too downhearted about tonight, the SNP held onto their vote which is remarkable considering they’ve been in government for 7 years.
If you look over Europe far-right and Euro-sceptic parties did very well, in England and France for example they actually got the biggest share of the vote. In Scotland it was only 10%, which makes us appear very level headed in comparison.
SNP: 2.3% short of beating UKIP. Scottish Greens: 2.3% short of beating UKIP. both right.
Says everything about the real Scottish society. One that is unrecognizable in less than a generation since my family
emigrated to Australia in 1952. Today we still hold the Scottish values and ethics that we left with. I returned to Scotland in 2005 as a piper in the Rat’s of Tobruk Memorial Pipes and Drums to play in the Tattoo. Several natives commented that I was more Scottish than themselves. I was just Scottish, but they had become less Scottish than they should have been. How dissapointing. I am sure that no previous generation would recognise the current custodians as their own, or probably want to.
Well i got off my skinny ass and voted SNP and i dont even want to be in the EU. SHAME ON YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK THE EU IS GREAT BUT CANT BE ARSED VOTING.
tragedy that ukip got in. tactical voting or otherwise. anyway i think it might be tactical voting by no voters that secured their position. don’t think you should blame green voters, diversity of opinion in politics is a good thing, and hegemony is not.
Well at least the coming long months blanket BBC coverage of our new ukip David Coburn and all the hard core gloating by ukok unionists like Severin Carrell up there, makes it extremely clear what’s in store for Scotland if we do actually lose to this lot in Sept. Its actually going to be horrifying.
I’ve had a rather depressing thought. Whilst the mainstream media campaign has been overwhelmingly pro-UKIP, the social media & internet has generally been pretty anti-UKIP, bringing up their policy on women, elephants, Romanians etc.
Yet they won, at least in England, and managed to scrape a seat in Scotland. I just wonder if this is any sort of indication for the referendum, where the mainstream media is anti-independence, and social media is pro-independence. Traditional “think as we tell you” media may still be unbeatable…
Just realised that the SNP now have more MEP’s than the ‘UK Wide’ Lib Dems!
@ fairiefromtheearth, give it up will you.
We are going to have to endure a massive wank-fest from the usual suspects. The gloating and snide asides from #Bettertogether is going to be sickening. They were so desperate for UKIP to gain a seat, so they could push their “Scotland is the same as England”. How they will howl their glee at this gang of racist, gay-bashing, anti-women’s rights and arseholes of the first order getting a seat here.
The irony here is that they will think this is a great thing for the union. This makes me cringe. The first time in a long time. I am astounded these arseholes got a seat.
Sick with anger at the moment.
Let’s lose the notion that Scots are somehow morally superior. They are just as susceptible – if not more so – to propaganda than your average Essexite.
Still, it bears repeating. Shame on the ignorant racist cowards who voted for UKIP.
‘james123. thinking myself that this far right rise is another way of ridding the mainstream media from any intelligent debate on political interest. lest the people pay attention
Haggis says:
26 May, 2014 at 12:51 am
“Why would people in Scotland vote for a party that is bigoted and openly looks down on Scotland and Scots”?
Sorry to say that Scots have been voting for exactly this for at least the last 40 years.
I actually don’t think UKIP gaining a seat for Scotland is necessarily a bad thing. At least Labour can no longer claim that the SNP were scaremongering when they alluded to the very real possibility of a Conservative/UKIP coalition south of the border. One of our possible futures is now staring us hard in the face.
Keep calm & carry on.
Yes Scotland sending out e-mails looking for donations. Interesting timing considering UKIP have probably just secured the first elected representative in Scotland. The next few months is going to be real interesting and I don’t think that UKIP will help the Unionists 😀
This is a catalyst that could finish the Labour party. The scenario being; UKIP maintaining the vote thereby creating a coalition with the Tories.
In Scotland after a no vote the people find out that Labour have lied through out the referendum.They then abandon the Labour party causing a massive upsurge in the SNP vote.
This referendum is now about saving the Labour party.
Vote YES to save Scotland and the Scottish Labour party.
I was just wondering here. If UKIP have won the sixth seat in Scotland how many UKIP voters will actually have the guts to turn out in September and vote NO?
In Scotland the combined racists and anti-Eu vote share was 30%. (Scot-Cons, UKIP, Neo-Nazi’s).
Combined Pro-Eu share 70%. (SNP. labour Northern branch, greens, Libdems Northern branch).
So far the bbbc has the anti-Eu factions on over 57%. Taking away the Scottish votes will put that nearer 60%.
Virtually identical to the Scottish result, obviously.
Some people really do need their heads kicked in for being such total lying scum.
Doug Daniel yes i would have voted green as well but Mr Harvey has put me off the greens, he thinks the only product made out of oil is petrol and deisel. apparantley oil is a curse we have to leave in the ground, it hasent got 1000000 other uses that do not pollute oh and chemispraying is just a conspiracey too. if their is any greens out their dont be stupid be informed. oh and its a shame Harveys not too bright cause hes a good oriator but thats it.
Let’s hope if UKIP do manage to scrape into the final seat that it wakes up enough of the 65% of Scots who didn’t vote as to the consequences of their apathy for September 18th.
givw what up headtracker?
Sick in the morning? I am feeling sick and disgusted right now.
The only chemicals that get sprayed by planes are crop-dusting insecticides sprayed by small single-seater light aircraft.
Let’s leave the insane conspiracy theories at the door when we post on Wings.
Of course the Better Together rhetoric will say that Scotland isn’t politically different from rUK.
Whether that line works with the Scottish electorate is debatable.
Reasons why this argument is shaky:-
1: it will highlight that UKIP and Better Together are bedfellows.
2: It will reinforce the idea that UKIP are an electoral threat in a Westminster election and may hold the balance of power.
3. It will reinforce the idea of the 2017 In/Out referendum and that rUK will vote the UK out of Europe.
There needs to be a firm narrative that the Yes campaign is on track – and that a UKIP rise is detrimental to Scotland’s interests – the SNP still won the election after being in power for 7 years – Greens also a vote for independence etc.
On the plus side for Yes:-
1. SNP have topped the list in quite a lot of council areas.
2. SNP are usually placed second or third in others usually not by much. It shows the areas where we have more work to do to secure the Yes result. Yes Scotland should now be targeting those areas and delivering resource and activists to those areas.
3. Decent Green result to be ahead of Liberal Democrats, should give a boost to their activists even though they failed to clinch the sixth seat.
4. It seems no-one bought the Lib Dem scare story of Scotland being out of the EU on independence.
5. UKIP are a party of nutters. The media giving Coburn a platform alongside the other Unionist parties will make the Yes campaign arguments more appealing to undecideds and soft Nos.
Although not an ideal result for the Yes campaign, I can’t see how Better Together can successfully spin this. The thought of UKIP should drive voters to Yes and the Unionists parties at Westminster – much like the LOTR’s Eye of Mordor focussing on the final battle with the elves and humans, while the unnoticed Frodo & Sam destroy the ring 😉 – will be drawn to UKIP while the Yes campaign increases over the 50% to independence.
Hmm – David Coburn unfortunatley appears to be a Blair McD clone, with possibly even less charisma.
On the plus side, as we know UKIP rarely appear at the EU parly, does this mean there’s a possibility that DC will now appear as rep for BT at Yes/undecides’ meetings? I bet wild horses wont be able to keep him away! Shurely resulting in a tsunami to Yes. 🙂
Alba4Eva says:
Just realised that the SNP now have more MEP’s than the ‘UK Wide’ Lib Dems!
It actually gets better than that Alba. Remember that:
1) we have, ever since they arrived, had MORE pandas than Tory M.P.’s in Scotland.
2) we now also have MORE panda’s in Scotland than Lib Dem M.E.P.’s in the WHOLE of the U.K.
3) we now have MORE panda’s in Scotland than UKIP M.E.P.’s in Scotland.
So there you folks THREE reasons to be cheerful. 😉
The English result if it has UKIP/TORY first and second is a huge blow to Labour. This is more meaningful than the sixth Scottish Euro seat
“It’s the BBC wot won it” (for Ukip in Scotland)
The Somerset Flyer in a huff.
😉
Cmon who on here dident vote or who on here voted ukip? i said it as a joke a few weeks back and took shit for it, is it a fekking joke now? and yes i think its a fekking discrace 67% of the people couldent be bothered to vote.
I’m beginning to think Severin is not all there. Everything he writes is a severe blow to Salmond. If he had an ounce of integrity he would see a UKIP seat as a blow to us all. I guess he just doesn’t care…or votes UKIP.
As Stu said on Twitter, it’s interesting how the Yes people are gutted by the simple fact of UKIP getting a seat. (I’m not at all convinced this is a bad thing for the Yes vote.) In contrast the Better Together lot are jubilant about it.
Go figure.
I have Labour voting friends who said they would vote green last week, climate change n stuff, only time I ever heard them mention being remotely concerned about fg global warming. I told them it was a wasted vote (sadly) and to keep ukip out vote had to be SNP. I am disgusted with them for helping vote in ukip in Scotland because I do not think it was anything to do with climate change, but their hatred of SNP. Idiots the lot of them, here we come far far right taking power if it is a no vote September, sickening.
Lots of work to do to counter the utter lies from msm who will be pleased as punch at what they have achieved in Scotland these last few days by their manipulation. I hope they rot in hell.
but hey go back to sleep and let westminster keep ramming the red white and blue dildo up your arse cause people cant be bothered, i tell you on the 19th sep when no have won cause nobody could be bothered to turn up to vote yes well goodbye Scotland.
Before I left for America, to salve my conscience over not being able to vote in person, I helped out with a few things, making sure everyone I knew who couldn’t get to the polling station got a proxy vote (which is far more reliable than postal, I think).
Nonetheless, I’m still absolutely gutted. I didn’t have any delusions that Inverclyde would transform into an SNP stronghold, but the results are crazy:
Britain First 234
British National Party 143
Conservative Party 2878
Labour Party 7286
Liberal Democrats 973
NO2EU 134
Scottish Green Party 929
Scottish National Party (SNP) 5842
UK Independence Party (UKIP) 1887
Rejected papers 26
Total Papers: 20,332
Turnout: 35.2% (Electorate 57,765)
Can’t believe there are (marginally) more LibDems in Inverclyde than Greens, but it’s that Tory vote that really horrifies me. Still, at least we’re slightly below the Scottish UKIP average at 9.2%.
Just remember, UKIP voters, THIS IS WHO YOU VOTED FOR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afKUUVQTYfY
A man who claimed the one beauty of the Highlands was its lack of population. A direct result of the Highland Clearances, one of the great crimes of the British State against the people of Scotland, aided and abetted by Scottish nobility.
You voted for him.
Are you happy?
Don’t worry about the UKIP win.
BT is in a shambles – what they need like a hole in the head is a UKIP contribution to their united front – three parties becomes four – how do they coordinate that?
All good for YES – they will all be tearing each other apart over the next 4 months.
I really don’t get the levels of dismay and allegations that we have somehow shamed ourselves in Scotland. Are we really suggesting that there aren’t any Euro-sceptics in Scotland?
There was really only one party they could vote for and that was UKIP, and this is the one election they can make their protest, and they only got a poultry 10% of the vote. In Denmark for example Euro-sceptic parties got a third of the vote.
Did the SNP take a hammering? Nope. Did SLAB make huge gains? Nope. UKIP having an MEP in Scotland is horrible but lets not get it out of perspective.
Ah, they were chicken!
I was hoping for a third seat for the SNP ,If the vote is so close between the SNP and ukip for the third seat how come the SNP vote share is not up .
The only silver lining is we will get some really anti Scots quotes from the ukip member that we can use against the unionists
Morag i suggest you look up sometime when you are out side. a contrail is a condensation trail that dissipates (dissapears) between 5 and 8 seconds. a chemtrail spreads out and fills the sky like i said Morag look up sometime and see it happening. now you got anything to say about oil?
I must confess I am absolutely baffled by the U-KOK jubilation that UKIP appear to have scrapped the last seat.
We were accused of scaremongering over UKIP and it now looks like England has voted them by the spade loads. Labour may actually have come third. Labour failed to win in Scotland despite all the anti-SNP/independence barrage thrown up by the papers and the BBC. What the fuck do they have to cheer about? Can’t they see the UK could be heading towards a very dark place?
I feel so ashamed that Scotland has voted in a UKIP MEP, UKIP a Party that wants to remove the Scottish devolved Parliament.
@ James123, the dismay comes from the UKIP candidate getting so much more coverage from BBC etc than anyone else. It looks like its worked and its only going to get worse as they drag Scotland through the mire that they built.
I’m so depressed with politics, I’m going to drink beer and watch skateboard videos (it’s bank holiday the morra so long lie for me)…
When the official referendum period kicks in, the BBC & mainstream media are required to report impartially. BBC are on record as saying “they don’t have to be impartial” until then.
Plus the turnout for the elections was under 40%: no way will it be that low for the Referendum. One should also consider that any party which bases its entire manifesto on the EU will do well in an election for members of the European Parliament: the indyref is far wider-reaching and more encompassing. Plus the pro- and anti-independence parties aren’t competing with each other, splitting the vote, as we saw happen with SNP/Greens here.
fairiefromtheearth
The turnout was actually up in Scotland by about 5% (I’ll churn the actual figure tomorrow – feeling kind sick right now). That’s impressive for a Euro election – Scots are so disenfranchised with the political system that it’s difficult to get decent numbers to vote in a GE, let alone in the EP.
Let’s get past this and focus on the 18th. The turnout for that will be very, very high, and hopefully having UKIP get a foothold will sober voters up so they’ll vote Yes to avoid the horror of a Tory-UKIP Westminster coalition.
“Look it up.” The perennial refrain of the terminally deluded conspiracy nut, who thinks that anyone reading the rubbish printed in his favourite nut-job web site will convince people who actually understand the subject.
Please stop bringing this nonsense on to Wings.
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.592699
Well done Severin Carrell, Jim Naughty etc. At least you’re putting Scotland on the map.
Iain Macwhirter wrote in his recent piece, ‘However, the SNP’s european election campaign was dismal and seemed to involve little more than party big shots taking flirty selfies with Tasmina Ahmed Sheikh. I can’t remember anything memorable that was said by the SNP apart from “we aren’t Ukip”.
Have to say I wasn’t aware of an SNP campaign, and I thought Tasmina and Ian Hudgeton were very poor on television. I can understand the SNP being stretched, and perhaps tired, with the long referendum campaign, but the Euro elections were always going to be used as an indication of what will happen in the referendum. Labour vote up, Tories doing fairly well, Libdems lost the plot, and SNP standing still firefighting. It can be argued they have done well considering they have been in power for seven years, but in a run up to September we really needed some indication of momentum.
If the unionists are going to chant that we’re now just the same as the rest of the UK from now until September then it’s going to be very waring. Let’s just hope that sane Scots (are there many left?) will take fright at the purple being rolled out across England and decide their future is actually at risk unless they vote Yes.
Now, what can I do to cheer myself up?
James
Quite (although I wanted to do the chicken joke 🙁 )
The SNP and Green vote held. The Coalition vote did not. I can see that UKIP making small inroads will actually be far worse for BT than Yes once the dust settles but I really didn’t want a UKIP presence.
However, the dust will settle and we can use the BT jubilation to show Labour activists and supporters exactly what the stakes are.
OK I obviously need to go to bed, he said “look up”, not “look it up”. The rest of it still stands though.
Dammit, in the land of the white cross in the blue sky, still this rubbish gets promoted.
We live in the matrix and alot of yous seem to think you are awake. well reality check the goverment spys on you how do i know this Edward Snoden wikileaks oh but thats just a fekking conspiracey i heared it on the BBC are yous getting it. if the fekking BBC says its a conspiracey then its fekking real. wake up SCOTLAND BE FREE set the World FREE. 😉 lol gotty love a good rant.
There are a lot of assumptions being made that don’t survive scrutiny.
On a 35% turnout it is perfectly likely that many people who voted LibDem last time didn’t vote at all this time and many non aligned who didn’t vote last time voted UKIP.
That is likelier than previous LibDems switching to UKIP or to anybody else.
I suspect the SNP HQ has taken a calculated gamble that a low key campaign which did not engage and activate the opposition was likelier than a big campaign to provide us the third seat but BBC promotion of UKIP has derailed that ploy.
Lots of Labour voters will have come out on an anti UKIP ticket
Doug – the SNP and Greens were equally close to taking the sixth seat. So there’s no reason for tactical voters for either party to curse themselves.
fairiefromtheearth – actually, in fairness to Patrick Harvie, he’s just about the only Green politician I’ve heard speak about the non-fuel uses of oil. He perhaps doesn’t emphasise enough the fact that oil derivatives are used in pharmaceuticals etc, but he’s certainly pointed it out before.
According to the BBC and other amusing pundits:
Triumph for UKIP who win EU election in rUK on 29% of vote.
Blow for SNP who win EU election in Scotland on 29% of vote.
In scotland the SNP won and the surging protest party UKIP still came fourth.
In rUK UKIP won ahead of Labour and the tories.
So I hardly think we’ll be taking any lectures from the BBC or anyone else on just how similar scottish and Westminster politics are.
@James23
We shamed ourselves by voting for a man who utterly hates us all as a people. Its not surprising, given that self-hate has become second nature to the Scots-psyche after generations of indoctrination by Westminster, but still shameful regardless of that.
I predicted this would happen, there was no way it couldn’t with the BBC acting as the propaganda wing of UKIP for months on end. It shows that the BBC needs to be attacked more. relentlessly. They must be completely discredited in the eyes of the people. As long as they keep up their “veil of impartiality” people will believe them, regardless of how ridiculous their stories and propaganda is. They are the enemy. Not Better Together, or even UKIP. They wouldn’t be where they are right now if it wasn’t for the BBC cheerleading from the front back and sides.
If there is one consolation from this, it is that we all now know who it is that we really have to defeat in order to win in September.
@Dorothy Bruce
It can be argued they have done well considering they have been in power for seven years, but in a run up to September we really needed some indication of momentum
The European elections are not an indication of what will happen in September. The SNP had the exact same result in 2009 and look what happened 2 years later. And don’t forget it isn’t just SNP supporters who will vote for independence.
I personally think UKIP and Tories coming 1st and 2nd in rUK is a major boost to the Yes cause.
Massive wake up call to anyone not fully engaged with what is at stake here.
So can we blow up the fuckin’ TV Mast’s now ?
No country has ever been given it’s Independence by England. They have all had to fight a bloody fight.
Get fuckin’ real.
This Referendum will be won by the English Broadcasting organisation and it’s Unionist’s who voted UPRICK.
If the Scottish people vote 80% YES we will be told it was 75% NO.
by my calculations greens needed another 23-24000 votes and SNP needed and extra 32-33000. Who’s tactical voting was wrong?
Actually, based on the current numbers, the Greens were very slightly closer to taking the final seat than the SNP were. The Greens needed 31,882 more votes, whereas the SNP needed 32,868.
survation pollster was closest to all UK parties percentages for EU
Can anyone point me in the direction of detailed results from 2009. I’m trying to find voting numbers from Western Isles. My rough calculations show that if SNP can get 11,000 more votes than ukip it’s SNP 3 UKIP 0
Just found what I was looking for. I don’t think it’s possible for a more than 11000 lead 🙁
James 123
We don’t have two years — only four months. I am aware this was an EU election and we are campaigning for a referendum, so apples and pears, but in politics it is perception that counts. The SNP, which in the eyes of the unionists is the Yes campaign, has been stalled. That was quite clearly the message coming across from the BBC coverage, and that is what too many people will believe.
Many people on here have been questioning what the SNP and the Yes campaign have been doing as Better Together seem recently to have been almost unchallenged. And while the campaign proper does not begin until the end of the month, it would have given the Yes side a better springboard if the SNP had won the third seat, or the Greens had secured it, and kept Scotland UKIP free.
But we are where we are, and the next four months are going to be a rocky road with a goal which could go either way.
After a weekend at the Whisky Stramash. I can handle on heart say. You vote for UKIP then you’re a prick
@Kearnsy, Id go as far as to say that to vote UKIP means your a ("Tractor" - Ed), not just to a country, but to the civilized society in general.
You’re*
I cannot believe that Scotland voted to have a racist representative! It makes me feel physically ill. But I believe that that is the cost of proportional voting. These people exist and have the right to a vote. I just wish I had confidence that they had been given a fair education and enough information to understand what they voted for. I fear that the mainstream media in the UK are creating a monster!
Taranaich – It took the BBC a year to admit their “mistake” when it came to the issue of that Irish minister. They can be as biased as they like, and won’t get called out on it until it is too late.
Hell, even when they admitted it, it was completely buried & only Newsnet Scotland reported on it.
The eyes of the world will be on the BBC during the final few weeks. They’ve had a smooth ride in regards to the referendum – mostly since the Saville controversy has taken up most of the BBC scandal coverage – but just like Saville, they can’t keep things under wraps forever.
Back in the ’70s, bad news could be handily put in a filing cabinet in Canary Wharf, never to be seen by the public eye. In this age of the internet, there’s nowhere they can hide undesirable news. When we start firing all cylinders, then we’ll see how well the Beeb stand up.
Once again a low turnout with SNP voters not getting off their backsides led to disappointment. At least the referendum turnout will be 80% plus. Get out and get campaigning folks, a UKIP MEP should be a wake up call for Labour voters in Scotland.
Labour voters have a choice in the referendum. They either stand with right-wing UKIP/Tories/Labour to take us out of Europe in 2017, or they vote for a social democratic independent Scotland IN Europe!
Remember we do not need 90% of the vote for Independence – 50.001% is just fine.
UKIP/ Tory/Labour and Libdems in Better Together – that is going to be very interesting.
It can be quite hot in July/August – BT Meltdown !
Off to bed.
Keep the faith folks, this may yet not be over. I’ve just seen this over on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/mokumz/status/470731977042460672/photo/1
Now I’m no expert but if the indications are true could we be seeing the intellectual Mr Coburn being fined and prohibited from becoming UKIP M.E.P., all be it another takes his place. 😉
Taranaich – That’s part of the problem though; it might only be the internet that sees it. Still plenty of people rely solely on traditional media for their information, hence my point about UKIP being derided by the internet but revered by traditional media… and traditional media winning out.
Even if there turns out to be glaring evidence of bias, people will only see it if they look for it.
Keep the faith folks, this may yet not be over. I’ve just seen this over on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/mokumz/status/470731977042460672/photo/1
Now I’m no expert but if the indications are true could we be seeing the intellectual Mr Coburn being fined and prohibited from becoming UKIP M.E.P., all be it another takes his place. 😉
Sorry for double post here, my first attempt came up with 503 error and I didn’t know my post had gone through so posted a second time. Sorreee! 😉
Absolutely raging. Stunned at the stupidity of our so called fellow Scots, including the greens who have been trying to steal votes from the SNP for weeks.
No idea what LFI were playing at, advising labour voters to vote for that filth is just as bad as ukip & i hope they didn’t use Indy raised funds to get that message out.
Ukip has no previous record of fuckin up Scotland, labour has over 40 years of doing their very best to do just that.
All yes minded people are welcome I just wish the deluded labour idiots would just wake up & realise that their poisonous, bastard filth of a party is dead, hallelujah.
Strange coincidence ukip vote 140,000. Missing/spoiled ballot papers (2007) 140,000.
If anything, this election result proves that the BBC is the number 1 enemy of Scottish independence AND its bias is pre-meditated and deliberate.
Oh, I agree, but I think the biggest difference is just the fact that the referendum really is a once-in-a-lifetime thing. EU Parliament elections come every few years, and you can always vote someone else in after it. This referendum is much bigger, with much higher stakes, and I think people will be far more encouraged to go above & beyond the call of duty than they did here.
Case in point: even with the massive campaign against the SNP and wall-to-wall UKIP coverage, SNP still got the most votes in Scotland, and UKIP didn’t break through to third party status. The Greens have had virtually zero media presence, yet they got their best ever result.
I share your concerns, obviously, but I think the election and the referendum are sufficiently different and have enough distinguishing factors that we needn’t fear this to be a prelude to a No vote.
I’m surprised so many of you are surprised to find we have racism in Scotland. I’ve lived with it for most of my working life.
If the people of Scotland were as great as some would like us to believe I doubt we’d be in this position right now.
@ Jill P –
I did a calculation based on the assumption that the number of people on the electoral roll in the Western Isles would not be very different now from what it was in 2011. (I derived the figure from the result in 2011, and the stated turn-out of just under 60%.)
Even if the turn-out was 100% (which it won’t have been), and they all voted SNP (which they won’t have), if I performed the calculation correctly there simply aren’t enough of them to deny UKIP the 6th seat. Unfortunately.
This is a blow for the YES campaign because it proves that large numbers of people believe still listen to the MSM. I’m totally scunnered with the people of Scotland tonight.
lots of people criticising those who voted UKIP. Turns out my mum voted for them. Why? She said that she was reading the newspapers and was concerned about too many muslims in the country.
Conclusion? A big round of applause for the British media. Don’t they make us proud. Whipping up bigotry for the masses.
Very disapointed in UKIP win but glad i voted for the Greens. Here is why, SNP want to join Nato and i am in favour of peace all the time and NATO are really the USA. Also i am a socialist and their the nearest their is. Plus i think wee Patrick Harvie brings a calm rational opinion to the referendum debate.
Final BBC UK forecast:-
UKIP 28%
Labour 25%
Tories 24%
Greens 8%
Lib Dems 7%
London finally (just) swung it for Labour. Nevertheless, Prof Curtice (in English TV mode) calls the results “disappointing” for Labour.
And the BBC also referred to a British Election Survey study of UKIP voters during the Euro vote & who they’d vote for in 2015 GE. 58% said UKIP again, 23% the Tories & 9% Labour. Put short : the Tories are back in next year.
It isn’t surprise, it’s dismay. Of course we’d like to think folk in Scotland were less likely to vote for a racist party like UKIP – because that’s a good thing, right? Knowing something and facing the reality of it are two very different things. Knowing that there are racist people is very different from witnessing and experiencing it firsthand.
But as has been said before, the majority of people voting UKIP aren’t voting because of latent racism and xenophobia – they’re voting because the MSM has done such a spectacular PR job for UKIP, ably deflecting the party’s horrific policies and statements by ensuring they keep on UKIP’s agenda. If the average Scottish UKIP voter actually knew about UKIP’s plans to abolish Holyrood, scrap paid maternity leave & holiday entitlement, cut education spending, increase military spending, decriminalise marital rape, withdraw from the Human Rights Act, cancel all current house-building projects, abandon banking regulations and risking another crisis, stop all renewable energy projects, halt climate change action, promote fracking, privatise the NHS, among others… do you think they’d vote for them?
They’re voting UKIP purely based on their EU and immigration positions, because they’re the only UKIP policies given any coverage in the media.
In any case, this isn’t about being “better” than England – it’s about being better people than we were before. Right now, we aren’t better than we were before, because we didn’t vote for UKIP or its equivalent in such numbers. We haven’t failed because we’re not sufficiently better than England – we’ve failed because we’re not better than our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents.
Think of the 2 million who signed the National Covenant. Think of the Red Clydeside, the Radical War, all those who fought and died for home rule in past centuries for a fairer Scotland for its people. Think of what they would feel to see their descendents vote for a party based entirely on the electorate’s apathy and ignorance combined with a complicit media.
I don’t care about being a better country than England or Wales or the UK – I care about being a better Scotland. And Scotland having a UKIP MEP is worse than a Scotland with none.
Just come back today after having cycled 1500 miles from Rome to find Scotland has actually voted in a member of UKIP. Fkn hell! I’m travelling through Italy, France and England telling folk the benefits of independence and this is what I come back to. A nightmare.
Guys, I’ll be blunt. Get donating to the local yes campaigns and get rid of this foul smell. Funding runs out in 3 days. Donate and feel better:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rome-to-home-1421-miles-on-a-bike-for-yes?show_todos=true#comments
Long time browser first time poster
Worry not.
As I see it we have snp and greens making up over 36% of the vote in a poorly attended vote. If you add on about 25% of the labour vote, call it an extra 5 or 6%, that puts yes on 42%. Add on the fact double the amount who voted are likely to vote in the referendum (and more likely to vote yes), it’s only a very small amount that are needed to vote yes that would mean we win.
As much as we may like to think Scotland is a beacon of liberal modern thinking the fact remains that every country has it’s fair share of right (and left) wing extremists and with the pr system it means that everyone will get their say, like it or not. Personally I like it. The more people see the and are shocked that these type get votes the more passive voters, like Mrs the lawyer who watched the tv shocked tonight, will become active and want to do something about it.
Accept they will always be here, independent or not, and concentrate on what we need to succeed.
As for voting, I am a green who tactically voted snp. There a number of us who did the same. Ho hum.
I long for the day we can finally be independent with a proper electoral system and tactical voting can finally be a thing of the past.
The westmonster agenda, same as before. Divide and rule.
Bruised Head’s
Divide and conquer, it’s the English way
Then you are made to pay and pay
Pretty soon they’ll have the clothes of your back’s
Then will return for your shoes and your dack’s
One thing is clear for it could’nt be clearer
Your in the hands of an expert shearer
The Empires wealth, from the many for the few
At this the English have earned their due
If Scotland can’t learn from historic example
Then on their heads they deserve a good trample
James Dow
From a jack to a Jill
Jack is feeling quite ill,his background is lost
It’s now time for Jill to cope with the cost
Two red crosses on a field of white
The Saltire’s gone home, restoring what’s right
A fitting end to a devious pact
Scotland now cleansed by this final act
James Dow
PS Here’s hoping it proves true.
Scotland, a nation of poet warriors.
Final Scottish figures (excl Western Isles):-
SNP 386,193
Labour 346,377
Tories 230,569
UKIP 139,687
Greens 107,805
Lib Dems 95,076
Britain First 13,551
BNP 10,150
NO 2 EU 6388
Now I accept this is a very crude analysis of the above figures, but for referendum purposes if we were to include all SNP & Green votes as “Yes”; and all Tory, UKIP, Britain First, BNP & NO 2 EU as “No”, then I calculate roughly that we’d need about 40% of Labour voters & about 20% of Lib Dems to ensure a “Yes” victory.
I have just got up to this news and I find myself deeply ashamed of my countrymen, no not the deluded fools who voted for this disgusting bunch,
No Im talking about the ones who felt the trudge all the way to and back from the polling station was just too much effort!
There are none so blind as those who WILL not see.
Scottish cringe now has elected representative.
All those who didn’t bother to vote should hang their heads in shame. No matter that Scottish vote for UKIP 1/3 of rUK, it is a disgrace. MSM wot won it with a lot of help from LibDem inferno.
Couple of points here.
First. UKIP’s big thing is Europe. These are the European elections. That means genuine UKIP supporters, unless they have fallen down a mineshaft and broken both legs, will make it to a polling booth and vote. The rest of us – not so much.
So with only a third of the electorate turning out, that 10% is really only about 3% of the electorate.
Second. Support in England for UKIP is around 30%. Unless there is some reason why the English voters in Scotland (there are about 400,000 English people living in Scotland) have a different voting pattern for some reason (and they may well have) that could account for a good chunk of the 140,000 votes UKIP got.
Third. The protest factor. How many folk are voting UKIP to ‘give the other UK parties a good kicking’ is unknown but there will be some. In Scotland there is also the fact that some will vote UKIP only to try to prevent a 3rd SNP seat, again an unkown number, but there will definitely be some. A double protest whammy if you like.
I am disgusted that Scotland has sent a bigot to Europe as one of our representatives.
The BBC I has been the best election agent a party could have.
A terrible night for Europe as we move further to the right in politics.
Wake up people – the neoliberals are winning
What the ? Is going on.
Westminster and the MSM are a total disgrace. The Unionist/Parties are complete fools. This is a result of their lies.
Independence can’t come soon enough. This result will increase the vote for Independence. The tiny minority of bigots in Scotland make people want to puke.
140,000 and they get a MSP in Scotland. The people in Scotland who did not vote have caused this to happen.
I wonder if anyone at Pathetic Quay is waking up this morning with this thought
“I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”
Isoroku Yamamoto
I do hope so, because all they have achieved is a total wakeup call for the sleeping voters or the Labour voters who would stay at home rather than vote no, this is what YOU will bring to this country, if you sit at home with the blinds drawn on the eighteenth of September two thousand and fifteen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrombDUtOYY
London gets 10 MEP. Scotland gets 6
Mark Coburn – Cyclist
An address or bank a/c no for donations?
Whilst extremely disappointed with UKIP apparent success in Scotland I am not all that surprised.
The SNP campaign was invisible as were those of the Labour, Tory, and LibDem parties and the only party getting pushed by the media was UKIP.
Thanks to the BBC and SKY News mainly, UKIP have been dominating the TV news and current affairs programmes and pushing their poison freely for months.
UKIP have also had virtually free rein in the newspapers sold in Scotland months and especially in the comments sections where most YES supporters appear to have given up in challenging UKIP’s and Project Fear’s nonsense.
I also strongly suspect that there has been a substantial tactical vote for UKIP by unionists for in Scotland who are determined to give the YES campaign and SNP a bloody nose at any cost.
UKIP so far have 139687 votes. Shame of every last one. Sickened. Doubling of my efforts for a Yes vote.
From the Hootsman (I know Iknow)
SNP 386193
Lab 346377
Con 230569
Ukip 139687
Green 107805
Lib Dem 95076
Britain First 13551
BNP 10150
NO 2 EU 6388
Paul the UKiP supporter, EU subsidies, hypocritical tax evading landowner will be pleased.
As soon as UKIP get one MP in Westminstermthey will be held to account. The game is over.
Fraser and Severin crowing. Their lies have made this happen. They should hang their heads in shame.
““It’s the BBC wot won it” (for Ukip in Scotland)”
And that should be the rallying cry for the beginning of a mass refusal to pay the licence fee!
Morag Graham Kerr says
” In contrast the Better Together lot are jubilant about it.
Go figure.”
Which is the stick we will use to beat them severely with!
@Mark Coburn,any blisters ? I cycle myself wish i could have been with you.
Well done great contribution.
Behold the power of ** TV ** that’s why the SG do not have control.
It really could put the crankies in westminister if need be.
No problem….
David Coburn telling lies about domicile arrangements? Will there be a re run to keep the ? Out.
The first chink in the armour?
Grim, but a warning none the less. This is the travel of politics and society in the UK, ever right, ever intolerant, ever uncaring of the needs of others. We stay in this union, it’ll get worse.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke
35% turnout
Enough said.
Nothing like leading imagery
Wee Catriona Shearers report about the cost of setting up new Scottish institutions was overlaid by a video of a person unstitching the George Cross from the union flag to leave behind the Saltire complete with red threads left where the George Cross had been removed,
disgusting and blatant propaganda!
This is sick making Farage can now claim to speak for Scotland. We have to win a YES in September to regain
any self respect
My wife asked for advice on who to vote for, so I told her Alex Salmond’s point about it being SNP or UKIP for the last seat but that was not enough for her to vote SNP. I’ll wait for the full result before I’ll tell her I told you so.
I did my bit.
Is it possible that there are voters out there in Scotland who think the the EU is a bad thing and only UKIP can save them from it?
There seems to be an opinion (amongst the ignorant and xenophobic) that Alex Salmond proposes to drag Scotland into the EU kicking and screaming without giving us a choice.
It is the politics of the paranoid fuelled by the MSM.
Stupid, but they have a vote…
Marian says
“The SNP campaign was invisible as were those of the Labour, Tory, and LibDem parties and the only party getting pushed by the media was UKIP.”
Im starting to wonder if the SNP deliberately back peddled on the EU elections in the sure knowledge the BBC would act as UKIP’s election agents to concentrate minds?
It’s really quite ironic to have a media which shouted that Scotland would not be allowed into the EU if we voted YES – a whhooooo! tale to frighten .
And now that same ridiculous media is crowing over( a possibly illegal) UKIP MEP representing us.
I have come to the conclusion that the only word I can find to describe the MSM is EVIL.
Disappointing, but a UKIP vote is an anti-Westminster party vote.
To quote / paraphrase our potential UKIP candidate:
‘People should vote UKIP even if they support Scottish independence’.
Up to 1/3 of the electorate would potentially vote to leave the EU. The problem is, if they wanted to express concern about the EU in EU elections, they only really had one option. Or at least were told that by the MSM.
“I have come to the conclusion that the only word I can find to describe the MSM is EVIL.”
You and me both.
GMS at 7.00am – “This is being seen as a blow to the SNP”. To some people that’s all that matters.They would rather see Scotland in flames than independent.
Have a colleague at work who is voting Yes but was voting for UKIP. No matter how much I explained that they were more right wing than the Tories and did not want Scottish independence her “fear of foreigners” and “they want our jobs” apparently won the day. I saw this coming.
The BBC narrative will now be that this proves that
“we are all the same, after all”.
In September, the people of Scotland may just decide to tell the gloaters that
“no, we are not!”
I expect 12% for ‘far right’ parties – if you can really include UKIP in that – will probably make Scotland one of the least racist countries in Europe.
Oh, and 1/4 of UKIP voters plan to vote Yes in September. They’re probably the most pro-indy after Labour.
I am horrified at anyone voting UKIP or any if the other far right parties but we have to accept that there are many loyalists or people of a far right persuasion among us and all that will change in time is their numbers. But it is a wake up call for good people to take notice. Inactivity allows extreme views to have more powers than they deserve. As for a UKIP MEP in Scotland I am saddened but not surprised. At least BT can work with their new partner and that numptie will make many more decent people question their NO vote especially when we see the proof of England’s lurch to the right. Something that is anathema to Scotland despite everything the BBC say.
Like everyone else here I am saddened to see UKIP get a seat in Scotland. But let’s try to find the silver lining. UKIPs only policy is getting out of Europe . Not very better together, is it? The BT coalition of Tories, lib Dems and labour will be highly vulnerable now, not just to in fighting, but also in pushing their flawed no borders campaign, which is increasing creaking with contradictions. And I hope too, that once the penny has dropped about what UKIP really stand for, that more people will see the benefits of voting yes.
The spectacular rise of UKIP may just be the reason many undecided and yes-leaning Labour supporters require to vote yes in September.
Thank you, BBC.
what this has shown is that blanket coverage by the BBC does affect the vote. The BBC could give Lord Such all the coverage and a significant percentage of the population would vote for the monster raving looney party.
I always thought NNS were a bit overboard in their campaign against the BBC, I get it now. BBC bias can change a country’s politics. The huge coverage for a party that had no grassroots representation in Scotland has given it a 10% poll.
Well, heard some predictions last night of possible Tory/UKIP alliance in 2016 Westminster Elections, which I too think is a logical line to take. They are politically becoming closer in their ideology.This will further move Westminster even more to the right, while Scotland is veering left.
In Scotland,it is quite obvious that UKIP has been purposely installed by the BBC via their anti SNP rhetoric.
Giving 4x the air time that the SNP got.Which is shocking!
Knowing this, will bring home to some Scottish voters just how they have been duped by widespread BBC propaganda.
They (BBC) want to show that Scotland thinks like England, but using propaganda as they have and do,and which is recognised as such is very dicey ground for them.They are becoming exposed for what they truly are.
Scots who fell for this stuff, SHOULD be ashamed that they are merely suckers easily led.
By 2016 we will have negotiated our position in the EU and been given a new allocation of seats as a full independent member. David Coburn will just be a bad memory.
I’d like to agree on the BBC theory and perhaps there is a kernel of truth in it, but I also think we could be sticking our heads in the sand. There is more going on in Scottish society.
http://whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com/2014/05/26/a-repository-for-anger/
For god’s sake have his voters in Scotland listened to this pompous illiterate talk let alone have a debate.If it was not for the propagandist BBC, he would even have been seen.
This party has NO fixed policies in place, they make them up as they go along, opportunists to the extreme helped by a compliant media. Do people really think this is what Scotland stands for? Oh god I do hope not!
Best response to this.
Turn up and help your local Yes group *today*.
Can’t turn up in person? Slip them a donation.
Can’t do that? Find an undecided and ask them their views on UKIP’s victory in England and what it means for Scotland.
Will the labour voters in Scotland now finally
Realise that Scotland is “staring down the barrel”
Of 5 or evening10 years of a Tory/ukip right wing
Government at Westminster.The BBC and press
Will ensure this in the 2015 general election.
September 18th is the “last chance” for our country
“Wake up” Scottish labour voters .vote yes on
The 18th of September or “direct rule ” from Westminster
Will be imposed “by stealth” on Scotland over the coming
Years !
Just watched one more BBC breakfast uk propagandist James Shaw? in Edinburgh, rubbing his hands with glee at ukip triumph. BBC1 nationwide and very concise BBC explanation why this is an incredible vote no win and great news for the union.
Its an odd sensation watching a BBC make no mention of how same BBC got ukip elected. At least Mr Shaw didn’t call Alex Salmond Robert Mugabe.
Scotland has a small proportion of people who have concerns over the EU and immigration.
This means Scotland = normal country.
It would be very worrying for me if Scotland had no ‘right’ voters just as it would be if it had no ‘left’ voters.
Yes if you are more centre to left a UKIP MEP is disappointing, but one solitary elected UKIPer won’t change September. Jeez, at least 1/4 of people who voted UKIP plan to vote for Scottish independence.
As noted, going on results so far, Scotland is one of the least racist / anti-EU countries in Europe and in extreme contrast to the rest of the UK; the combined UKIP + Tory vote in Scotland is around half that of the rUK.
An independent Scotland will have a left and a right just like any normal country. What’s healthy is that Scotland is historically very balanced here.
Don’t watch the BBC
No viewers, no programmes
Selective viewing
Parliamentry Channel
‘Scotland’s Economic Future Post – 2014’
Blair Jenkins doing well.
Pity about Fraser and Baker.
Where on earth did those extra 70,000 UKIP votes (since last time) come from? There’s been no indication in past elections at any level. How many UKIP voters does anyone know? There must be some very dark alleyways.
Hope we get details of the postal voting.
It has to be said: a disappointing night. Bad points: not the best turnout of SNP supporters; Labour vote up 50% on 2009, and they can’t all be fraudulent postal votes. Good points: the Lib Dems must be just about finished, and Labour now look very unlikely to win the next UK election: they needed to be well ahead of the Tories at this stage, but they’re neck and neck – and in that straight fight, a lot of UKIP supporters in England will vote Tory, particularly with the prize of an in/out EU referendum.
UPRIK were never off BBC.
A bit shocked, but not surprised. I can see it on Catriona’s face this morning as she read out the Scottish news, and I thought even Brian Taylor looked dazed at what may be about to unfold.
I’m looking at them, and I can see it on their faces, ‘How did that happen?’
The answer is simple. Thanks to our wonderful Scottish media in their biasm over the last 2 years, in which they spent all their time denouncing the SNP and the referendum, they allowed a window of opportunity for UKIP. By NOT giving the SNP and YES Campaign fair coverage, they spent 2 years painting them black, and have given voters a skewed vision of Scottish politics.
Those who might have been persuaded to go to the SNP or YES if the coverage of the Referendum had been done fair and without biasm, may have been persuaded to vote for SNP or Labour. Instead, believing the SNP are liars (thanks BBC, Scotsman, etc), Labour are led by a bunch of the biggest idiots ever, the Libs are dead and the Tories detested …they allowed UKIP to shine like a beacon.
Aye, our wonderful media reporters and spokesman …no wonder you’re looking a bit shocked and dazed this morning …the actual reason UKIP got in? You caused it!
We should be having a totally different debate here in Scotland but because we are bombarded with English/British media UKIP are now here to inject a bit of their poison here too. I hope someone explains this to call Kaye this morning who will be discussing the topic.
OK, so now the MEP elections are over, we can focus again on the major task in hand – winning a democratic independence for Scotland, to end London interference. As The First Minister pointed out to the sneering Dimbleby and his lapdug, token ‘Scot’, Curtice on the BBC propaganda channel last night, UKIP had four times as much coverage by the BBC in Scotland than the SNP, the largest political party in Scotland and party of government. The greens were almost completely ignored. If that does not let you know EXACTLY what the blatantly biased state propagandist BBC will do in the run up to September, then you really need your head read.
Judging by twitter, it seems many who oppose Scottish independence, intentionally switched their vote to the UK independence party for MEP. Cynical, tawdry, pathetic.
If we spend all day wrining our hands about it, we merely help the state propaganda BBC, and unionists in their task. They want you to be upset/dismayed. In my honest opinion, looking at the big picture, it really is a distraction, no more, no less. We can either join in with the BBC led hysteria, or ignore it.
If you, want a YES vote, WE will have to work for it. Nobody else will do it for us. This is the political fight of a lifetime, so if UKIP win a MEP seat, I could hardly care, aside from soundbites, it’s actually irrelevant.
Time to focus on the YES vote, get your badges and car stickers on, get out there, helping the pro independence groups, in any way you can.
http://www.yesscotland.net/join-in
http://www.scottishgreens.org.uk/independence/
As regards the referendum itself, I think we have now seen that the electoral commission is as useful as a chocolate teapot, and the blatantly biased state propaganda broadcaster the BBC will pull every dirty trick, and use every means to ensure a YES vote, even if that means they damage their supposed (but wholly false) reputation.
We do need impartial observers, preferably from the EU. Either way, let’s make sure, that today, the fight begins. It is our to win. (And FFS stop knocking the Greens, they are our friends for independence).
Oops – ‘Parliamentary’
A great and funny article on the vote at the Wee Ginger Dug, worth a read.
http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
Now, thinking of how the Holyrood parties are likely to take this, Lib Dems will be spluttering and their voters now, more than ever to move to YES.
Labour will be really dismayed at a UKIP presence in Scotland, their party did not too badly but they will become even more paranoid. Again, I would expect a labour to YES move by disgusted voters, that this could ever be allowed to happen in Scotland.
The SNP will not be happy either, but will have some comfort in there could be a silver lining at a good time.
The YES vote will really be the winner out of this, it really comes down to good choices.
After the Euro elections the Tories have now become the Bookies favourites (Betfair) to again win the most seats in 2015 just like 2010.
As the Rev has been saying for a long time, Labour will not win the 2015 election.
The 80% plus Scots who do not want another Tory led government need to be shown that a No vote is a vote to be ruled yet again by a party that the vast majority in Scotland opposes.
The idea of tactical voting seems to be lost on some people, for the last seat to be SNP they would have to take x3 the votes of UKIP, but the greens were in a straight fight with them, its enough to make you scream.
Just listening to David Coburn having his first car crash interview with Gary Robertson on GMS. What a plonker!
SNPEE lies and propaganda probably had a lot to do with it.
That and wee Nic’ s scaremongering that it was between them and UKIP for the last seat.
The BBC ‘s resident psephologist Prof Dandruff of Strathclyde made great play last night of SNP percentage vote being well down from 2011.
However the last comparable UK wide election where BBC “national”coverage created a distortion against indigenous Scottish political parties was in 2010 when the share of the votes was Labour 42%, SNP 19.9%, Lib Dems 18.9% and Tory 16.7%.
As Alex Samond said last night UKIP with not a single elected politician in Scotland got four times as much BBC TV Coverage in the last four weeks than the democratically elected government of Scotland.
Another example of how we are in bed with an elephant.
The one thing we have to take into account. Only 33.5% of Scotland voted. I know mates who are voting ‘Yes’ but did not vote in this.
In one aspect, this could be the wake-up call that was needed. Not only have UKIP done extremely well in England, but it looks like they have won a Scottish seat.
It now looks certain that UKIP will have a major effect on the General Election, and who wouldn’t bet on the, sharing power with the Tories.
So, what better to point out to folk that not only is it looking likely that UKIP are not only on the rise, that they may share power in Westminster, but they have a toe in Scotland! Suddenly, all the ‘nonsense’ that we Nationalists have been warning the Scottish Electorate is slowly coming to pass! This could be the bullet needing to be fired loudly so that we can shake voters apathy to politics.
Certainly for me, UKIP’s rise is another weapon to use when talking to people.
I feel ill. I know it’s looking like the Little Englanders will only be getting around 10% of the vote, but I’m disgusted they’ve even got that many.
It’s also telling that unionists are celebrating the election of a racist fool as some sort of victory. It shows how much we need to get out of this Union as quickly as possible. For their benefit as much as ours.
JLT,
I agree. For many this may be the wake up call they need.
The referendum is real, and we all need to work for it. Maybe, just maybe, this UKIP nonsense, will be the jolt some Scots need, you can vote YES to have an independent Scottish Government that Scotland chooses or vote NO and have at least another five years of TORY/UKIP right wing cuts and bashing the poor direct from Westminster.
Just heard David Coburn interviewed on Good Morning Scotland. He could not say specifically what he was going to do for Scotland in Brussels. “Too early in the morning” says he!
BtBC reporting ….
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27557547
“The cost of setting up all the bodies needed in an independent Scotland could be £1.5bn, the UK Treasury has claimed.”
…. after the EU election resuts, £1.5bn seems a bargain to get away from the Union!
Remember that for the last three weeks the Beeb and ITV have broadcast into almost every home in Scotland the fact that UKIP were on the march every hour every day,
plus the documentaries, appearances on Newsnight question time and so on If we had that sort of coverage we would have won four seats I am upset that these racist scum have won a seat. They disgust all right minded folk, but the Scots electorate now see that the Lib dems are a spent force Sixth place! Now that the skirmish is over lets prepare for the big one. Whenever I get the chance on a yes stall(or any other time for that matter) I point out to anyone who will listen that Better together own the media and that Yes Scotland Has far more people on the ground
and that its people that win elections not the Media .I ask that they log on to Wos & Newsnet at least once a day. To get a fairer truer picture.
That pompous arse coburn has been on GMS and when questioned about which of the rules from the eu he objects to he couldnt name a single one. Arse!
Dr ian Duncan (tory)is currently on and has just said that he is NOT DISAPOINTED that UKIP has won a seat and that most of the votes that ukip has won came from the SNP? really? different planet!
Just wondering how Dunc. Hothershall feels about a homophobic party like UKIP getting an MEP in Scotland. Anything to bash the SNP???? Really?
One aspect to look at also. UKIP voters will be coming from the ‘No’ camp anyway, plus, would the ‘Don’t Knows’ really go for UKIP?
Overall, I believe that the UKIP vote has come from the 30% that the ‘No’ side have. No one in their right mind from ‘Yes’ is voting UKIP. I guess a lot of DK’s would have voted Labour.
But that doesn’t mean that Labour voters wouldn’t vote ‘Yes’. This election is still comparing apples and pears to the referendum.
Seriously, what do we know of UKIP. they want out of Europe, and they want rid of the immigrants. Real key questions to mention to folk if the topic of UKIP arises are 1. How are they going to deal with the deficit of £1.3 Trillion. 2. What is their foreign policy (that’ll be a belter!), 3. If we pull out of the EU, how will workers rights be protected, 4. What happens if Britain becomes too isolated. What then? 5. What is UKIP’s position on how America deals with the world. Will we be their main backup buddy and get involved when we shouldn’t? 6. What is their vision for the economy?
I could go on. There are a ton of questions that UKIP haven’t answered (another huge mistake by the media. They backed a party that has no policies …and they bite the backside of Yes at every turn in wanting them to explain this, that and everything!)
As said, UKIP could be used as a tool to help us in the Referendum. By pointing out their lack of vision, and yet, look on course for power sharing, this should make most folk sit up and ponder their ‘real’ options.
A disgraceful example of democracy bought with licence fee money.
This is surely proof beyond any reasonable doubt that Britain operates within a quasi dictatorship in which the Establishment through the BBC, coerces voters to deliver results to suit its own political, economic & social agenda.
If there is any upside to this outcome, it is that despite a budget of over £3 billion, the BBC managed to convince barely enough Scots to elect one MEP from UKIP.
The interview with Anas was weird. He was trying to sound positive, blaming EU wide trends and all the rest but he was spectacularly grumpy and complained the interview was too hard and Nicola got an easier one.
Of course Nicola got an easier one, they won and came within a whisker of taking the third seat. She was always going to be more upbeat. I think Labour did OK in Scotland but the fact is in England they came third. Labour have a big problem. Farage has legitimacy. I dread to think what the BBC will do now…make him chair of Question Time?
The results could have been better, but they could have been a lot worse. There are a couple of positive things :-
Scotland is different. UKIP 1st in England with 30%, 4th in Scotland with 10%
The Indy parties, SNP and Greens, have maintained their share from last EU election. All we’ve seen is shuffling of votes among the Unionists. The deluge of anti SNP and anti independence propaganda from the MSM and BtBC hasn’t impacted in Indy party support, it has simply moved some Union supporters across to UKIP.
Heard ” Call Kaye” was discussing last night’s results, pushing Ukip from the start.
We got to get International Monitors in place for the start
of the “real” campaign. We cannot rely on the Electoral Commission who are becoming unfit for purpose.
oh well, just means that the Poles, Hungarians, the Asians will be voting for independence come sept 18th…Nice one Nigel, Nice one son, you played a Blinder.
Calm down folks, although far from perfect, the big thing is that UKIP have won.
THAT concentrates the minds of those already voting yes and those undecideds wavering, as well as certain Labour voters who intended on voting No.
Without sounding too chipper about it, I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing.
Been listening to R4 this morning and the reverential tone of Naughties interview with Farage suggests that he is now part of the establishment and will be treated as such, despite being found as racist and xenophobic time and time again.
The news summary of Scotlands vote was this. ”In Scotland Labour managed to edge out the conservatives”.
Something missing with their summary eh? Would listneners not be interested as to who won. No?
I want the BBC and UKIP out of my country and its time that the SNP and YES went on the attack.
UKIP voter are really sick to vote for them,they are just a bunch of racist scumbags who will if had a chance completely kill of Scotland and the people. Farage is a useless clown who just wants to screw the UK same as the Tory scumbags,scum scum scum.VOTE YES and get rid of scumbags.
SNP liars that only they could beat UKIP
karma
Can someone not tell BBC Radio Scotland that 90% voted against the UKIP little England Tea Party.
BBC in Scotland radio news reporting their ukip Scotland triumph with their shiny new candidate Mr Coburn complaining that he’s been kept off the radio but still won! Or he’s saying that last time he was kept off the radio and lost and now they are on the radio and they won. The scam rolls along.
Anything’s possible really from the UKIP/BBCBetterTogether campaign but life is probably going to a bit more unpleasant for EU and outside EU citizens that have moved to teamGB. So big whoop for the lads and lasses at Pacific Quay, you’re a complete and utter disgrace to Scotland.
I’m convinced that the Daily Record and the Labour Party are partly responsible for UKIP’s increased vote in Scotland. Both have been pushing the story that there will be a massive increase in of immigration into Scotland after independence. http://wingsoverscotland.com/?s=dog+whistle
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/record-view-independent-scotland-would-3598959
Am I right to say the the Scottish Tories vote held up, and no sign that they lost votes to UKIP like down south? So if Libdums went to SLab, where did the increase UKIP vote come from?
How can a party that is further right wing than Thatcher gain votes in Scotland?
BBC still carrying SNP with no MEPs on its election round-up page
Seems that we do have people who are just a stupid as those in England, well we knew that. Who votes against their own interests time and time again. We have to have some people who do because why do they continually vote for Labour every time there looks to be a Tory Government.
I thought it was gie stupid for anyone to spit the vote by voting for the Green Party, this has worked against keeping out Ukip. Folks why play the old divide and conquer game this far on it the proceedings.
Now lets just get on and keep the heid, Farage is not standing in the Referendum.
Interesting that the Better Together mainstream parties, Labour and Conservative, rejoice that a far right grouping wins a seat in Scotland.
Because they see this as a blow to the independence campaign.
UKIP seat in Scotland > FFS
Progeny of Project Fear & the Labour / Tory / Lib Dem
‘Better Together’ coalition against Scotland.
No doubt the collaboration including UKIP will never be off the TV now !
Okay we are all sickened by UKIP getting a MSP but eyes on the prize guys, eyes on the prize. This is the BEST thing that could have happened for the referendum. All those Labour and Liberal Voters who don’t want a future dominated by UKIP/Tory, they now have a vision of the future if the vote is no in September, far better than any argument which YES can put forward. A vote NO is a vote for the future desired by Nigel Farage and David Cameron. Labour is incapable of saving them (or themselves) and the Liberal Democrats are gone. This will focus minds and remind everyone of what lies ahead if the vote is no. And frankly it’s going to be a useful tool when speaking to undecided voters, ask them how they feel about the prospect of a UKIP/Tory coalition (Do you think we could get David Cameron to agree that pre-election pact with UKIP before the referendum, that would be very helpful.)
So yes, I’m disgusted that so many fellow Scots could vote for UKIP but I also know that without meaning to they have done us all a great service. Don’t get angry about this, use it. Remember 140,000 people voted for them, over a million people voted for everyone else and even more just couldn’t be bothered (I’m actually angrier about them than those who voted UKIP). They will be bothered in September.
Ok, so it goes without saying that its a massive disappointment that UKIP have picked up the 6th seat in Scotland, but I think we now need to look on the bright side and use these results to show what lies ahead if we are foolish enough to vote No.
@bunter says
‘I want the BBC and UKIP out of my country and its time that the SNP and YES went on the attack.’
Couldn’t agree more
Ah Mea Culpa, it is of course a Euro MP not a MSP. My bad
I don’t know what the unionists have to gloat about it was their vote collapse that allowed UKIP to gain the 10% they have. The SNP vote held its ground from the superb result they obtained in 2009. The result in 2009 was judged at the time to be excellent for the SNP and nothing has changed from their perspective. Its the unionist parties who need to do the soul searching and direction changing.
I have to say that the electorate never learn, they voted Liberal in droves in 2010 only to be disappointed, Nick Clegg gave a few good speeches, he is a well turned out politician who turned out to be the same as all the rest. Now we have Farage, who also turned up on Telly and made a few choice comments, none I can quote as I do not watch politics nowadays on the Telly, but well mentioned in our miserable media,and low and behold the stupid turned out in droves.
My Mother in Law always said and she was not the most politically astute that they would have voted for Hitler in Britain had they had a chance.
BBC still carrying SNP with no MEPs on its election round-up page
To be fair Dave the official certified result isn’t announced until this afternoon
I am sure I saw polls in the last couple of weeks before the vote showing SNP about 6 to 8% ahead of Labour.
As someone else mentioned, the Scottish media in the last few days, headed by the Daily Rancid, went into immigration scare mode.
I hope YES use the Daily Rancid to get their message across too, adverts and flyers, as that paper is widely digested by the politically niave.
Absolutely disgusting.
Those Scots who vote for UKIP should harangued and chided for such an act of unequaled stupidity.
These people are a disgrace to Scotland.
£1.5billion? Set up? – Over five years. Less than Scotland pays for Westminster administration Now. Not including HoL/Scottish Office expense. Not including the benefits of extra jobs (taxes) to the Scottish economy (ie growth). An absolute bargain. A total win, windfall.
Plus the £10Billion gain. £4Billion (soon to be 5) on debt repayments (Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend) £3Billion overpayment to Westminster, £1.5Billion saved on Trident, redundant weaponry. £1.5Billion saved from a tax on ‘loss leading’ drink. NHS/Social/Police/Fire saving benefits. The vulnerable will receive better care. Not Prison.
Nick Clegg greeting again.
“Too wee, too poor, too stupid. Well, unfortunately maybe the last still applies in the respect of those who voted for U.K.I.P. Leaving aside all their other policies, (what policies)this is the party, who, in their 2011 manifesto said they would abolish the Scottish Parliament if they ever came to power. Along with the Welsh Assembly. It baffles me how they even got one vote. Are some of us really that stupid? It would seem so, and while no doubt the endless political party broadcasts they got, courtesy of the B.B.C, contributed to their success South of the border, I really did think that we would have more sense. Ah well, back out on the streets delivering more Yes newspapers, and hoping to make a difference come the 18th September.
Carrell and the Guardian must be delighted with UKIP’s possible success in Scotland (I never thought I’d ever write that).
18 months of demonising Salmond and the SNP, aided and abetted by ‘Scotland’s’ unionist parties and the wider media have paid off.
Listening to ‘Morning Call’ we’re hearing Scottish Kippers claiming ‘it’s because of Salmond’.
Add the obvious total ignorance of those Kippers with regard to immigration – one actually using terms like ‘our kind’ – and we see what happens when UKIP gets four times the media coverage in Scotland than the Scottish government/SNP.
Still waiting for the presenter to remind the Kippers that Scotland NEEDS immigrants – and she must know that !!
Still listening – and the UKIP ignorance gets even worse !
Actually I think blaming the Media etc is counter productive. Let’s just admit these people exist in Scotland. It’s not a mistake, it’s not an error, UKIP are here, and they have supporters. That’s not the question.
The question is, are we going to choose, either through fear or indifference, to let them choose Scotland’s future.
Those who are clinging to the embers of the Union need to ask themselves that question.
Something thats probably lost on the Unionists(especially the Eurosceptic Toryboy ones), given they don’t do logic, but quite relevant anyway.
If this result means that Scottish political culture is similar to English political culture, as they like to claim, then it follows that English political culture is almost identical to French political culture, where the French version of UKIP, Front Nationale, also romped home.
UKIP can cry about it all they like, but FN and UKIP are one and the same. Even Le Pen thinks so.
Black day for Scotland.The media are responsible for this outrage.But of course its Salmonds fault as usual.Ukip,BNP,Tories they are all the same.We need to get out of this racist country in September or its all over for us.To keep this in perspective Ukip got 3% of the actual electorates vote on a low turnout of 33%.But that’s what happens when you don’t vote!
Alex B – as Salmond pointed out last night, Scottish BBC viewers have been bombarded with UKIP propaganda via BBC London. BBC Scotland’s coverage of the EU elections has been woeful – a few minutes every few days.
The ‘main’ news programmes have been dominated by UKIP for weeks.
bunter
I think that there was redistribution. Some of the Liberal vote will have gone to the Tories some to Labour and likewise some of the vote from these parties will have gone to UKIP. BNP have, thankfully, been wiped out so their vote will almost certainly have gone to UKIP.
To be honest, if UKIP had got 15,000 less votes in Scotland we simply wouldn’t be talking about them. Coburn is pretty unpleasant so having him sniping at Better Together because they won’t let him join will not be a bad thing. Once again it lets people see who Better Together’s bed fellows are.
@john king
If the SNP did ‘soft peddle’, and I’ve seen no evidence of that, isn’t it more likely they did so to increase the Geeen vote?
“The 2011 UKIP manifesto for the Scottish Parliament, ‘We, the People’, is explicit and unashamed on this point. In a section entitled, ‘Democracy first. We, the people, shall rule’, its first point is a declaration that they would ‘Retain the Scottish Parliament’ and then on the next line, ‘Replace MSPs with Scottish Westminster MPs’ (4). Strangely, Nigel Farage in his appeal to Scottish voters – ‘Power to local people’ – fails to mention this policy once (5).
This is abolition of the Scottish Parliament in everything but name; the replacement of a directly elected Scottish Parliament with what is in effect a Scottish Grand Committee. It would be using the trappings and surroundings of devolution to return to the reality of pre-devolution. The substance of this would be a mix of Labour majoritarian dominance (thanks to Westminster FPTP distortions) and what would in effect be Westminster direct rule.
It is a policy UKIP do not want to talk about in Scotland for understandable reasons; the Scottish Parliament as an institution is enormously popular in Scotland – a significant achievement in an age of anti-politics.”
Gerry Hassan
http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/gerry-hassan/ukip-policy-nigel-farage-doesn’t-want-to-talk-about
Has anything really changed? Scotland has always had people who vote Tory – we’ve never long been able to keep the stain of blue out of our political maps. Seems to me those idiots have voted a UKIP MEP instead, desperate to have someone in power they can work with.
Bookie, the SNP are the party of independence. Yes other party’s support YES also, but the SNP also happen to be the Scottish Government and the largest supported party in Scotland.
It’s easy for you to call folk (SNP) a liar after the event, but pre-election, it was widely accepted by anyone that was not living under a rock, that the fight for the 6th seat was an SNP/UKIP battle.
The truth is that it was far more logical for Greens to tactically vote SNP to keep UKIP out… how could us SNP voters have known whether too many of us were voting Green?
Goodness, you could have ended up with the SNP and Greens numbers switched, still letting in UKIP.
The Greens should have recognised the above, acknowledged that they were the junior partner in this and then tactically voted… all it takes is a little pragmatism to do so, and I have done it myself before.
@Grant Cruickshank
Thats why I feel the media, or more specifically the BBC, ought to take the blame here. Those Tories are the ones that have pretty much been scared by the “Salmond Bogeyman” created by the BBC into voting for UKIP. They poisoned the well and for that, there ought to be a backlash.
Jeez …Call Kaye …would you listen to the nonsense as to why folk voted for UKIP!
Kaye …‘Why is Scotland voting UKIP? …WE AREN’T, FOR F***’S SAKE!!!! THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF SCOTLAND WILL NEVER VOTE FOR UKIP. UKIP ONLY GOT AROUND 140,000 OUT OF 5.3 MILLION PEOPLE !!!!!!
One guy believes Scotland has it all anyway, so why hand it all over to Brussels (and we don’t hand it to London!)
One guy was a Labour supporter who is so fed up that he voted UKIP (which makes you wonder. How the **** does a Labour man vote for a Far-Right Wing Party? Or does it just show that Labour are truly right wing anyway, that the guy can’t differentiate between them?)
Another voted UKIP because he sick of the Poles taking jobs. (I work with 2 Poles. They get paid the exact same as the Scots. They are NOT cheap labour, and they are both good at their jobs. We have Scots in this country who would be screaming in rage if you told them they must work. There is a small percentage in Scotland who don’t want to work …ever! That’s not the fault of the Poles!)
Will give Kaye her due here. She pulled on an official spokesman for David Coburn (Scot UKIP) and asked him what UKIP will do for Scotland. Jeez …the guy went to bits. He seriously struggled to answer the question. He had nothing. It was like asking a German MEP as to how he could help Portugal in Europe. Same for UKIP. An all-out English party helping the people of Scotland in their affairs. In the end, Kaye had to help him with his policies …JESUS WEPT !!! Who seriously voted for this mob????
The only reason UKIP got in, was because the vote came from disenfranchised Tory / Labour / Lib supporters. Nothing changed in the sense to the Referendum. Some of the 30% die-hard ‘No’s decided to ditch Labour and Liberal and voted for UKIP. This is not a seismic shift in attitudes as BBC Scotland are trying to paint it. It’s just a case of the Scottish Tories, Labour and Libs getting their act together and start helping Scotland instead of helping London.
GMS
At least 5 Ukip voters have been on and not one of them have any idea of Ukip policy. The immigration scare seems to have spooked them,they have been duped!
However one Ukip voter objects to being called a racist, or ignorant, a Fifer too. 🙁
Some non Ukip voters complain about the exposure given by the msm and bbc playing a big factor in the EU election.
That’s about it in summary.
alba
SNP were guaranteed 2 seats
Greens were going for 1st ever Scottish Parliament
SNP press conference,stated only they could beat UKIP
a blatant LIE
Poor George Lyon, if Scotland was independent, we would have 13 MEPs and he’d still be in a job.
Anyhoo, looking forward to Better Together officially welcoming UKIP into the fold.
Curtis also let his hand slip last night, and has now
enabled us to see exactly where he comes from.
Cmon peeps, this isn’t the time for Green on SNP or SNP on Green infighting. What happened, happened. The only way now is forward and there’s no point beating each other up about it. There is clearly still work to be done, with no small thanks the the MSM, and both parties need to have each others backs for this.
So 3% of North Britons are racists.Its hardly news!If the Tories had got a seat instead of Ukip would it have mattered.However their politics are broadly similarlar in terms of immigration and Euro bashing.Well do the 3% of the electorate want to abolish the Scottish parliament as that’s what Ukip want.Probably at least 10% of North Brits who want to abolish Holyrood.This is not news there are probably 10% of our country who are right wing fundamentalist Brits.Best way to get rid of these people is to take a way their franchise in September by voting Yes.Ironically I think more people will now move to yes as a protest against the decay of liberal UK.
As I said before the SNP have trouble shifting backsides when it’s a low turn out election. This has been evident since Glenrothes by-election, too much apathy in Scotland which of course is reflected elsewhere in the Uk and Europe.
This won’t have a bearing on the referendum as it’s not an election but efforts must be tripled on foot to get the indpendence message into Labour heartlands and say to the: “Look, do you want to stand with UKIP and take us out of Europe”. A YES vote in September will render UKIP completely useless in Scotland. One positive thing though UKIPs presece can only hurt Better Together.
Interested to hear on BBC that the UKIP vote in Moray was higher than the UK average for UKIP. Moray, of course, is somewhat right of centre politically and regularly elected Tories before the SNP upsurge. Also, there are many English people, with retirees from the RAF bases not all returning south of the Border for the last 50 years or so. The Findhorn Foundation was a spin-off of the Kinloss airbase. Kinloss itself is the most ‘English’ town in Scotland by proportion of people born in England.
I would expect Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire to be strongly UKIP as well since large numbers of middle Englanders have moved in during the recession looking for cheap rural land and well-paid oil industry jobs.
I was very tempted to vote green, but in the end stayed with the SNP.
Worth noting, for those discussing the merits of tactical voting either way, that to have scuppered UKIP the greens would need an increase in their vote share of about 30% whereas the SNP only by just over 1%.
Note as well that the SNP added 65,000 to their vote count of 2009.
Might be strange to say this but I honestly believe this ukip “result” will work out in Yes’ favour.
Stand by for Mr Coburn to get plenty of BBC coverage and plenty opportunity to sicken the vast majority of people in Scotland. The prospect of such a reactionary future after a No vote will be there for all to see.
There is particularly no point in arguing over the Green/SNP thing as both parties votes held good. What we are looking at here is redistribution of other parties votes.
The BNP and No2EU shed 2% (the little they had). I’m guessing that vote did not go to the Greens or the SNP. That 2% was enough to push UKIP over the line. The oddball parties got 8% or so last time. The increase in the anti EU vote in Scotland is not that big. It just all went to one place this time.
Im sorry Bookie, but the
Green voters had a (blindingly obvious) tactical vote open goal to guarantee keeping an anti Independence party out, while increasing pro-independence representation. They blew it Hibbies style!
This UKIP result in Scotland is simply the result of two years of Project Fear plus the overspill from the immigration / EU ‘noise’ in the south.
As long as people in Scotland get their news from Unionist media, this is to be expected. Once again it proves that the BBC can and does influence political outcomes, by unseen forces guiding the editorial and coverage. The BBC strategy is deliberate, contrived and managed to suit someones agenda at Westminster.
Conversely, the only reason the result is not worse in Scotland, are the images of Coburn and Farage on TV. One is completely thick, the other comes across as an arrogant ‘Little Englander’.
It is time for residents of Scotland to recognise the value of our country and to take action to defend it. (To be clear, I am advocating peaceful and proactive political activism, nothing more) We cannot afford a single person to be an armchair activist. It is not going to be enough.
The Grass roots of the YES movement now needs to discover its bark and bite over the next few weeks if Scotland is not to be dragged down by Westminster politics and smothered forever.
A better Scotland is possible…. but only with all people and parties, aligning, casting differences aside and throwing throwing their collective weight behind the YES movement…
ok alba–call a truce
what happened,happened,cant change it
need a good drink
The two spokesmen for Ukip could barely quote any policies for Scotland, or any policies at all for that matter but listening to the callers on BBC Scotland who voted for Ukip all stated immigration as their main reason. That is worrying for SNP as regards the referendum vote, it certainly made my heart sink listening to it.
As the quote goes “The people have spoken, the Bastards”
Have just read on the Wee Ginger Dug that the UKIP Moray vote was in fact well below UKIP’s poorest showing in England, so a lot less to worry about.
If you can’t be bothered to vote you get the cockroach the non-political elect.
bookie from hell says:
26 May, 2014 at 1:14 am
it was the non voters,many SNP voters didn’t show
I sincerely doubt that, with a referendum just 4 months away, all SNP voters would be wanting to send out a message to LONDON that said, see, we ARE still winning big, after 7 yrs in government.
It was in my opinion, the UNIONIST voters turning to UKIP just to STOP the SNP getting that sixth seat, because they already knew they were being beaten. Tories I can understand, Liberals I would never even give a second thought to, but Labour! When the hell are they going to wake up.
They want a socialist party? Well, they have got one in government right now, they should be trying to keep hold of them, or soon their council tax will go through the roof AGAIN, they will pay dearly for their prescriptions, & the tuition fees WILL come to their kids too. Then the start of privatisation in the NHS will take off, with privatisation of Scotland’s Water also. I am SNP, but if this country votes NO in Sept, then I WANT a Labour Party voted in next. Then those that ran away from wanting Independence for their country, can live with the consequences. And I want them to suffer.. Which they surely will under that lot.
I am sure if you give Mr Coburn enough rope then he will do it to himself. The worry is that the media/BBC won’t pick up on most of it.
How the hell have the Scots got this ignorant, loud-mouth as one of the country’s representatives?
@Taranaich
Could only find the anti-renewables guff in the
UKIP 2014 manifesto.
Where did you find the rest? Esp the marital rape bit
(which is shocking)?
Deliberately waited to read all of this long thread before saying anything.
So,
1. UKIP is vile -’nuff said.
2. ‘Yesers’ don’t blame each other and don’t be depressed.
3. If you haven’t already then get out from the computer and campaign like you never have before.
4. Join the work of finding the unregistered, working class, potential Yes vote.
5. Work harder on those one or two undecideds you know that might be won.
6. Wear your badges everywhere and fly a saltire if you can – help to create an atmosphere of coming success.
7. Be optimistic and push like you have never pushed in your life.
THE REST IS DROSS IN THE END !
Wingman
Yep.
Also point out that since the Scottish Grand Committee, which used to meet in Dewar’s ‘Nationalist shibboleth’, still technically exists, it or the UKIP proposal, would be quite redundant.
UKIP took over 10% of the vote in Scotland.
The SNP couldn’t get three times their vote.
Why?
1)The SNP walked away from their euro sceptic left wing populist sovereignty doctrine in 1988.
2)Scots rural and coastal communities are sick of policy being made in Brussels. That the EU decides that the UK 200mile EEZ is no longer the UK’s.
3)For every £3 given to the EU we only get a quid back.
4)The SNP “Independence in Europe” is anathema to a lot of Yes voters.
5)EU policy on Immigration favours 28 countries unlimited in number. Whilst telling the rest of the world to have a quota, visa, work permit system to get into the EU.When parties call for a return to national control over borders they are labelled “racist”. When the EU does it they aren’t being racist. Hypocrisy.
Well said little England is not Scotland.Ukip won a seat by an anomoly.They have no presence in Scotland.80% of Scots are not narrow racist right wing bigots.We are a different nation.Let’s be proud and fight like never before for freedom in September.We are Scottish/Europeans and we welcome anyone who wants to make Scotland their home.I should know my ancestors are all immigrants to this nation!
Morgan Ukip are racist…what’s your point feeling a bit guilty are we?
Just as shameful were the 13k votes that went to Britain First.
On going to vote with my wife, I laughed and expressed surprise that a bunch of nazis could find six candidates to stand in Scotland. The polling clerk was quite emphatic that they weren’t nazis but “only standing up for the rights of the British…”
Unfortunately, there was no police officer at Kinghorn’s polling station to whom I could report this bias inside the polling station but on returning home, I read that non-UK Europeans were being turned away and told to go vote in their own countries.
Anyone else see evidence of this?
Coburn to represent Scotland, he doesnae follow football, that’s why he doesnae kin who the Scottish football coach is, as he’s a rugby man…. but can’t tell us who the rugby captain is….ffs
That 10% represents the hard-core, uberBrit No vote. No need to panic.
Hi Andrew not directly.However the guy giving me the sheet said put an X anywhere in the sheet while his finger was over the Britain First box.He didn’t move up and down just put his finger over the bigot box!I did think here wait a minute!
Yes Juteman we already know there are 10% of out and out Ultra Brits in Scotland.This merely confirms it.Murdo Fraser as much as admitted he is one in his reaction to Ukip win.Tory/Ukip brothers in arms.As the old saying goes scratch the surface….
I’m getting confused here – the figures suggest 3-4% supporters of extreme right parties don’t they? Not 10%.
I’m not even remotely bothered about this. At least, no more than I m about UKIP’s rise across the UK as a whole.
The reasoning is as you say – they came in fourth. A rather distant fourth at that. We knew the Liberal Democrat vote would collapse, and we also knew that the seat was a tight contest between the SNP, Labour and UKIP. Now, with the combination of this, the BBC’s obsession with UKIP and the extremely low turnout of only 33%, I argue that this is not representative of the entire country but was partially down to anti-SNP voters turning their attention to UKIP rather than Labour. I’ve said it before – UKIP now have a singe MEP, but no councilors, no MPS and no MPs, and I highly doubt they’ll get any of these anytime soon. Indeed at this election, 90% of voters REJECTED UKIP. I’d hardly call that a victory.
If this has you worried about the referendum, then I doubt there’s much cause for concern – the low turnout here will not be replicated on the big day. I think it’s likely that many of those who didn’t vote on Thurs are from all over – Yes, No and undecided – and therefore this election cannot be measured as a way to see what’s coming in the referendum. The game is still well and truly on.
Still, for Mr Coburn, where does this leave him in a potential post-Yes? UKIP could not continue to exist as it does.
@Andrew Bentley-Steed
Kinghorn polling station had no police
presence when I was there.
It was bereft of voters too.
I’ll join you Bookie. …hey, at least we enjoyed a heated debate I guess… The rare BT appearences on this site usually end up with the Rev dismantling their arguments before we even get a look in. 😉
So both the Greens and SNP were 2.3% away from keeping UKIP out?
Given that wasn’t reflected in the polling beforehand, it’s not something that could have been predicted. It happens. Short of a formal agreement between them, nothing could have been done.
Scots and English are not different people, and even if they were that would be irrelevant. What is important to me, as a nationalist, is the existence of different cultural perspectives.
I see those as being very good things to have in the World.
IMV they do exist and should be allowed to continue to exist – and develop. Not just tolerated but encouraged even.
All forms of fascism and imperialism which instill regimentation, whether instigated by a loony dictator, political ideology, corporate interests or any combination of the three thereof, should be resisted, vigorously, wherever possible.
Not just from an anti-boredom point of view, but also because of very real pragmatic value in regard to the advancement of civilization itself, and possibly even one day, its survival.
Paula 10% of the 30% of Scots who voted.Only 3% of those eligible to vote!
The day before the EU election the Herald front page article spelled out that acording to a poll by David Torrance’s “5 million Questions group” that 70% of Scots agreed with UKIP policies.
We Had Severin Carrell on Newsnight Scotland pointing out that a vote for UKIP was a way to get at the SNP by demonstrating that Scots are the same as English voters when it comes to immigration and the EU.
As UKIP’s vote stands at 3% of the Scottish electorate, double what they got in Scotland at the last EU election. They have seen a movement of 1.5% of the electorate to them. Before the vote Torrance Carrell and the rest of the MSM realised this was an easily achieved target, the rest is history.
An interesting feature of Moray, where UKIP got their largest share of the vote in any council area in the country, is the presence of two large military bases in the county. Normally, these could be relied upon to bolster the Tory vote, but with the Tories cutting back on military expenditure, the military vote had to go somewhere.
We should not be blaming all the people who voted UKIP but we should be blaming the 70% or so who could not be bothered to even fill in a postal vote let alone go along to a polling station. These are the people who should really be ashamed especially when you remember that not so many years ago the good people of South Africa queued for hours under a blazing sun just to vote. People who don’t vote don’t deserve democracy but they will have plenty to moan about what the EU does about this or that. I wonder how they would handle a dictatorship?
Auld Rock
I’m absolutely scunnered and disgusted by these fascists getting a seat on the back of 140,000 dumb/scum votes.
More concerning is that the total of right wing and therefore probable ‘NO’ votes (Ukip,Tories,Libdems,and assorted nutjobs) is 495,000 versus 494,000 SNP and Green ‘Yes votes.
This means that we need Labour voters in Scotland to become a majority in favour of Independence to win in September.
What chance of this with the Daily Retard and English BT/BBC pushing the NO Narrative?
I hope and pray that the ‘Yes’ campaign start to attack the BBC openly and determinedly, an institution that is the real citadel and source of hate in this country…anything to wipe the smug smirking expressions off Dimblebore and Curtis’ faces forever.
@Lee MacDonald, et al
Mea Culpa – I voted Green. Having been a member of the Scottish Green Party for 11 years I should have been wise enough to know my vote is worthless unless cast for a “big party” like the SNP, Labour, Conservatives, LibDems or (now apparently) UKIP. A wasted vote, no less. I should have subsumed my principles and beliefs to tactical nous and backed the SNP, because that’s what the new democratic Scotland we’re fighting for is all about.
Because of my naivety we are now saddled with the stain of a UKIP MEP and it is all my fault. No criticism of the SNP campaign can be levelled. No recognition that Scotland has always had its fair share of bigots who exist in a state of fear, mongered by a political class and a complicit media, desperate for a glib soundbite that will take the nasty thing away.
I’ll be going along to a Yes meeting this evening and I truly hope all my SNP friends and colleagues berate me for my crass exercise of democratic expression. I realise now i am no longer fit to organise or contribute to this glorious campaign which is not about the SNP or Alex Salmond but this Euro election just past was, or something. Anyway, I’m a Green of very little brain so I apologise for everything, especially the march of UKIP, the BBC and the Euro Sausage.
My actions, and that of my party, have shown the world that being Scottish or living in Scotland does not automatically cleanse one of right-wing bigotry or inure one to sanctimonious soundbites, self-hatred, a blame culture and other such drivel. Seems we have to go out and change hearts and minds, one by one, while keeping our own tendencies in those directions under check.
I am truly sorry for creating a situation where you have to face up to this fact.
Interesting article about our new UKIP MEP below, which suggests he might have been less than honest with the Electoral Commission.
http://edinburgheye.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/where-does-david-coburn-live/
Can’t believe this if they got the seat. A combination of not having your own independent media,listening to beamed in stuff from elsewhere.
I’m deeply disturbed by the ukip result , even more so with the bnp vote numbers.
What is happening to this country ? This country that fought fascism voluntarily in Spain , then Europe. Our strength during the post war growth was taken from us Samson style when Thatcher destroyed our industries , yet we fought back and have ever since. Why then would anyone here vote for more of the same from people who call us Jocks ?
We have SO much work to do before September. Carpe Diem!
Dale @1.21am
Your probably right about the South of Scotland helping to get UKIP in, in our little sparsely populated corner of the south Dumfries and Galloway,5752 voted for them, when my wife and I went to vote at half past two,there had hardly been anyone else in voting, labour polled 8909, SNP 8634 and the tories 14143, I dont know what the % was that voted but stabbing a guess, it was very low…xxx
We need to get out now,I cannot believe this happened.
Ffs,based in Kensington.
@Mai Parks
The BNP vote was down significantly. Probably lost votes to UKIP, who are a slightly more crypto fascist and almost respectable to vote for. Same sort of xenophobia though.
Christ on a bike! Was on the piss last night and missed it all, woke up this morning with a bastard hangover and then read we have a ukip MEP! These right wing bampots should be held at arms length like a shitty nappy
@Dr Ew
Electoral calculus flagged in advance of the vote and borne out in it was that only the SNP could beat UKIP to the last Scottish seat.
Therefore it was a situation like that in that French presidential election where the French Socialists put up posters urging their supporters to vote for the crook not the fascist in order to keep out Le Penn.
You knew that, or damn well should have, before the vote. Yet for one vote, with your party having no chance at that seat you chose to throw your vote away and not even TRY and stop UKIP.
Sorry but your excuses simply do not wash. It was people like you and my wife who let UKIP in. I told her of exactly the same calculus. She doesn’t even support your party, it was a protest vote.
By such individual decisions are the fascists let in. The price of liberty is eternal vigilance. You fell asleep.
If you choose to lable someone as racist to shut down debate.Don’t be surprised when most folk see through that tactic and ignore being told what they know they are not.http://ukip2win.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/bbc-accuses-nigel-of-racism-where-ukip-candidate-is-a-sikh/
Another day of shame apparently. Wings objects to UKIP because they have racist sikhs in their party.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Surprise-candidates-spicing-Hull-election-2014/story-21046506-detail/story.html
@morgan – It’s classic divide and rule tactics employed by the British Establishment. UKIP are an irrelevance the biggest factor is the Scottish referendum. They talk it down as a sideshow but make no mistake the referendum is the biggest threat to the British Establishment.
@Croopenstein
Divide and rule by the establishment?
The voters have sent a message to the establishment.
@ Dougie Bee
My thinking behind it being most of the votes in the South of Scotland was from reading a little bit about the Jacobite Rebellion.
Whether that makes any sense is up for debate.
Who controls the voters?
Bookie from Hell.
Wake up!! SNP WERE THE ONLY PARTY WHO COULD’VE STOPPED UKIP.
Cease with the liar line.
As Scotland’s government & largest loyal vote, common sense dictates that they were the ONLY party able to stop ukip.
Remind us how many MEP’s, MSP’s or MPs the Greens have?
@morgan – You are obviously a ukip voter so it would be interesting to know your main reasons for voting ukip. You surely could not have looked at David Coburn and thought you’re the man for me. The party you are sympathising with have been unashamedly pushed by the BBC and MSM the question surely has to be why? why have they been pushed so hard?
Dr Ew.
Thank you for your very erudite response.
I had no intention of attacking any individual & I apologise profusely if I made you choke on your nut cutlet.
Both @muscleguy & @Alba4eva explain to you your wasted vote(your words not mine) far better than I ever could.
I am also going to a yes meeting tonight & will be working even harder to secure independence.
I hope & pray that the ever growing family of yessers can continue to strive for the goal we all seek.
I feel sick – Scotland’s shame.
Woke up to this news pre-work. Feel sick to my stomcach that the racist ukip have been given a foothold in Scotland. The sad deluded fools who voted for this dont know that Farage and co are tricksters of the highest order and is leading them down a dead end road. The man is a clown but a dangerous one. Surely to hell, Scotland wont snatch defeat from the clutches of victory and confine us to the dustbin of history.
BBC planting Poisanis Virus in Scotland UKIP.
http://edinburgheye.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/should-the-euro-elections-be-declared-invalid/
Deeply disappointed.
I have little doubt that if I ask around every person I can find at work tomorrow not one person will admit to voting for UKIP. But the odds that none did are remote; it’s a fecking big organisation.
Thing is it’s a bit like the Tories; no one seems to admit to voting for them except activists and members, but someone clearly does.
I am hugely ashamed of the Scottish electorate for putting those rancid racially driven shower of shite in place to ‘represent’ Scotland. There is no way that pillock Coburn is in it to represent the interests of Scotland, he has said as much himself, but he’s certainly in it to feather his own nest and fight for the future of the UK as per Better Together would probably prefer he didn’t.
I sincerely hope this result is a size twelve steel toe cap up the arse of any person in Scotland who believes we will be better served in the UK. And I don’t mean just Coburn; I mean the blatant swing of the English electorate towards the right wing scum of UKIP. Their following in Scotland (ten percent share of the vote, against a very roughly 30% turnout, gives them three percent of the total electorate. They are still marginal, and they still don’t speak for almost every single person in Scotland.
I do wonder if a large number of these UKIP votes come from English residents in Scotland?
ukip got 10.5 per cent of the votes in the worst turnout I have ever seen and my place overlooks the Polling Station.
What were they thinking.
I cannot find the total vote count.
10.5 per cent of — How many votes.?
10.5 percent of roughly a thirty percent turnout across Scotland so, again roughly, just over three percent of registered voters cast their deluded vote for UKIP.
Tongs_ya_Bass; the two people I know voted for UKIP, who have now been verbally ripped to bits and their only defence was ‘protest vote,’ are born and raised in Scotland. I for one do not appreciate the implication you’re making that it will be English residents giving UKIP a boost. We have, regrettably, no shortage of moronic idiots amongst native born Scots.
A majority of the English residents of Scotland who I know either personally or through others are staunchly for independence and several are card carrying SNP and Green members. I cannot speak for all of the English Scots, but I greatly doubt that they massively impacted the UKIP vote in Scotland.
146,000 Scots voted UKIP.
4.35 million voted UKIP across the UK.
389,500 voted SNP across Scotland
751,000 voted for Farage in SE England