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Wings Over Scotland


Smear ’em young

Posted on June 30, 2014 by

At the weekend, hundreds of people (estimates of the actual number, as is traditional, varied wildly according to who was counting) protested against BBC bias at the state broadcaster’s Pacific Quay headquarters in Glasgow. There was a very great amount of sneering on social media among No campaigners and journalists at the peaceful, good-natured gathering, for such is the character of No campaigners and journalists.

A small group of readers of this site were among those who attended the protest. They were carrying a Wings Over Scotland banner, and some people had photographs taken with it, which naturally led to more sneering, such as this:

hothersneer

So far so unremarkable. That’s a jibe aimed at me rather than the wee kids in the pic, and I’m fair game. But then a gang of usual-suspects No types piled in on Labour and “Better Together” activist Hothersall’s tweet, and things got a little ugly.

hothersneer2

Pretty unpleasant, but depressingly run-of-the-mill, stuff. Alert readers, however, may be wondering why there’s a black bar in the middle of that image. That’s because there was a tweet there that’s now been deleted, but not before it was captured for posterity.

kwiles

Kathy Wiles was today selected as Labour’s 2015 Parliamentary candidate for the Westminster seat of Angus, currently held by the SNP. (Extra-vigilant readers will have also spotted a tweet above from John Ruddy, the chair of the Angus Labour Party that selected her.) She apparently thinks it’s fine to liken small children to the Hitler Youth because they’ve had their photograph taken under a Wings Over Scotland banner.

This evening we got an email from one of the children’s mothers, Lorna Young.

“Dear Stuart,

I’m the parent of the 7-year-old that Duncan Hothersall mistakenly identified as you last night.

Kathy Wiles who tweeted the attached appears to have since deleted the tweet, but it must be cached in my iPhone as I was able to screen shot it.

I note that within the last couple of hours her selection as a prospective Westminster MP has been announced by Labour, and I note also her 13 year experience working in the education sector.

Bit embarrassing therefore to have been caught on the same day publically comparing enthusiastic pro indy children (aged 7 & 9) with Hitler Youth. No wonder she deleted the tweet.

Some background info on my child and his cousins, and their presence yesterday. 

Alexander became interested in indyref after watching BBC Scotland’s ‘Scotland’s Smoking Gun’ documentary earlier in the year after he couldn’t sleep one night, it just happened to be on the tv at the time. He connected with the programme very sincerely and asked lots and lots of questions and decided all by himself that he wanted Scotland to be an independent country. 

His birthday is a week after the referendum. The day after he watched the documentary he announced, with no coercion whatsoever, that the only birthday present he wants this year is an independent Scotland. 

Since then he has continued to have a very active interest in the campaign, he thoroughly appreciated your ‘look… squirrels!’ article, he’s met Nicola Sturgeon, has watched with interest Alex Salmond’s 5 million questions interview, wanted his selfie taken with the Sunday Herald Yes cover and every Sunday morning now gets excited at the prospect of a new Sunday Herald front cover.  

His two cousins (who were the y and the e in Aye) are also extremely interested in the referendum, they have been brought up to question things and to reach their own conclusions, and their parents took them on holiday to see the Anne Frank Museum last summer, so Kathy’s accusation is particularly ridiculous when applied to these children – there will be few children in Scotland as informed about the referendum, as able to recognise propaganda and as aware of the horrors of fascism as these three children.

In terms of what happened yesterday, when they saw the Wings banner they recognised it and decided themselves that they wanted to pose under it, because, frankly, they fitted in under it perfectly!  

No coercion, no adults ‘posing’ them – these three children have their own views about what they want for the future of their country and they wanted their voices to be heard. Myself and their granny then encouraged the folk with the banner at the bottom to move across to make a fantastic photo that really seemed to sum up what the day was all about. Then the pandas joined in, which made it even better! 

And the reality of yesterday’s photo was that children having fun at a peaceful, family friendly, anti-propaganda gathering have themselves been subject to vile twisting of the facts by a prospective Labour Westminster MP with a background in education.  I’m sure Ed would be awfully proud of her if he knew.”

We’re sure that he would.

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306 to “Smear ’em young”

  1. Paula Rose says:

    Was that Doctor’s grandson similarly enlightened?

  2. Minty says:

    She’s spraffing on Twitter now – trying to highlight the ‘dangers of exposing children to extremist groups like WoS’.

    #Wheninholestopdigging

  3. Stuart Black says:

    Just one more compelling reason to vote Yes, to ensure that vile creatures like Kathy Wiles do not represent us. Shame on you!

  4. BigRik says:

    Aye, coz Westminster politicians would never, say kiss babies for political propaganda.and the O/O would never have kids waving Union flags at their hate-filled bigoted marches.

  5. Yesitis says:

    A ‘Claire Lally moment’ for Kathy Wiles which will be completely ignored by BBC-STV-MSM.

    Utterly despicable.

    I have no doubt people like Kathy Wiles, John Ruddy and many in Labour are well down the path of dehumanising Yes supporters.
    A disturbingly dangerous direction.

  6. AnneDon says:

    Labour party hacks can’t understand that adults can make decisions and take power over their own lives and communities, so there is no chance they will understand that children can.

    Our place is to do as we are told by them, and stepping out of that role, to them, justifies any oppobrium they heap on us.

  7. Alexandra-M- says:

    *face palm* I bet she is absolutely sweating! Imagine comparing those young kids to Hitler’s Youth. Utterly disgraceful.

  8. Murray McCallum says:

    The unionist parties seem to resent younger people participating and finding alternative sources of information than that churned out by the MSM.

    Their approach seems to be the exact opposite of citizen journalism and being inquisitive. They appear to prefer being spoon fed.

    The BBC bias demo seemed very good natured and I hope the youngsters enjoyed themselves. Well done them for taking part.

  9. Justin Ross says:

    The louder they kick and scream, and the more poison they spit, just confirms for me that the No camp know they are losing. And it makes me all the more determined to make that happen

    Ms Wiles seems to be ideal Labour MP material. Thankfully she’ll never be elected as long as she stands in Angus.

  10. Appleby says:

    Kathy Wiles is a disgusting person to behave in such a shameful manner, picking on and insulting children of all people. Obviously she is happy to attack children and trample on them to climb to the top. No blow or attack is too low or too cheap for Kathy’s ambition. She has no place in any parliament with such an attitude and lack of ethics.

    Criticising political pundits and polticians for their policies or actions is justifiable. Attacking a seven year old child with such extreme smears that would be considered bad taste even with politicians is downright evil.

    Kathy Wiles should make a public apology and be withrdrawn from candidacy immediately if her party hope to hang on to a shred of decency or dignity.

  11. ForgotMaths says:

    Oh for the love of …

    It’s OK to bus kids up from England to support No, but any kids supporting Yes are Hitler’s Youth.

    I started off as No when the whole thing kicked off – I’m no well over to Yes (partially because of reading a lot) but mostly because of this shit.

  12. Dinnatouch says:

    The contempt shown by these people to those of us who wish to make our own decisions is breathtaking. I’m utterly disgusted by the lot of them.

  13. Inbhir Anainn says:

    Disgraceful actions by Kathy Wiles she should be immediately deselected but we know that is never going to happen.

  14. The Scotswoman says:

    The Labour Party. What a joke putting party before country. Putting their progress up the greasy pole before their fellow Scots. I hope they mind on that Scots have long memories. So Kathy Wiles has been selected for Angus has she? That’ll be interesting when she’s canvassing.

  15. JimnArlene says:

    I’m so fed up with, the Nazi slur. The Slab, Tory and lib-dem idiots, must realise it’s pish. They do not have the right to govern, they are like long shanks imposing his rule on this land of ours. They too can sod off, thinking again; as I am sure, we will be a nation again. They are the fascists, ruling in turn ( not the lib dems, who will bed with anyone, to have a glimmer of ahem power), five years min. at a time, same shite different arsehole.

  16. BrianW says:

    Naturally there will be a media frenzy on this shocking use of Nazi Imagery by a Labour Candidate used in reference to Children being pictured under a Wings Banner.

    But I’m thinking the MSM will just about manage a one shoulder shrug and a tut.. Now I’m not 100% sure on that, I know i;m being silly…but i’d bet a full months pay on it..

  17. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Do we know yet if any Scottish MSM journalists bothered to attend the PQ event yesterday?

    Wasn’t it newsworthy? Wouldn’t it have been interesting to see some of these ‘Cybernats’ in the flesh?

    If they were scared of being eaten alive by indy-pandas or lynched by knuckle-dragging fascist hordes, they could’ve gone undercover, surely?

  18. joe kane says:

    John McArdle of the disabled human rights group Black Triangle Campaign BTC) based in Edinburgh also gave a short speech at the protest outside the BBC HQ protest in Glasgow. John makes no secret of the fact he is Jewish and that Jewish systems of ethics informs his political activities. He’s also originally from England.
    So well done to the Unionists for –
    (a) smearing John after something repugnant to Jewish people everywhere
    (b) smearing a Scottish human rights organisation which uses the Nazi symbol that was used to demonised German chronically sick and disabled people

    And a big specially thank you also to MP Jim Murphy who accused BTC of bullying the BBC given that BTC took part in the BBC anti-bias protest. In case Jim wants to complain about another case of bullying which took place the previous day against members and supporters of BTC’s sister organisation in England Wales, DPAC, here is the evidence –

    No god here: just heavy police at the Westminster Abbey #SaveILF protest
    Kate Belgrave

    Shame Of The Church of England: Dean of Westminster Allows Hundreds of Police To Attempt Stamp Out Of Disabled People’s Peaceful Protest
    the void

  19. James Sneddon says:

    I’m sure these are the same labour folk that had their own kids waving the “I want to grow up not blow up’ banners back in the day when labour used to go on CND marches. Twa faced bawbags the lot of them.

  20. BigRik says:

    Seems only a matter of time till they blame WWI and WWII on Scots Nationalists, hang on, according to Geordie Robertson we will be to blame for WWIII, watch this space.

  21. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    So Miliband using a child to lie about the NHS = Good.
    Children expressing an interest in Independence attending a peaceful, family friendly gathering = Evil.

    I’m really struggling to think why on earth Miliband is considered such a joke of a Labour leader by the public.
    Particularly when he has morality free Labour toadies like Wiles backing him up.

  22. Paula Rose says:

    @ ForgotMaths – darling, make sure you join up with your local yes folk and chap them doors. The way we win this is by being the people you want to be with.

  23. Ken500 says:

    Is John Ruddy 5? Or it another PR photo. At least the kids under the Wings banner are real.

  24. Nana Smith says:

    This should be shared so folks know what despicable people they are voting for. Horrible individuals like Wiles should be avoided, we do not want her sort anywhere near power.

  25. Lesley-Anne says:

    Utterely despicable behaviour from someone who *ahem* aspires to become a people’s representative in parliament. This should be spread as far and as wide as possible, particularly in the area where she intends to *cough* stand in 2015. We will NEVER forget!

  26. mary vasey says:

    WELL DONE Lorna for bringing up your kids to be individuals and to stand up for what they believe in. Your a brilliant mother of fantastic kids.

  27. Paula Rose says:

    Love your neighbour.

  28. Ken500 says:

    Ordinary mother’s at Labour rallies?

  29. Frankie says:

    The bairns were brilliant. I couldn’t go to the protest personally but the pics of them made my day. Great letter from the 7 year olds mum too. Well done that lady.

  30. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    Twisted creeps. Their owners should be ashamed.

    Well done, Lorna Young and the Aye team. And the very pacific Pacific Quay crowd.

  31. Ladybird says:

    So this is the caliber of representation we can expect if the referendum results in a “No”? Wow, there’s an enticing prospect – NOT! I have to admit to being generally disgusted and distrusting of anyone who wants political power, mostly because they all give the impression that they would trample their own grandmother for a few extra votes. This, however, is a whole new low and a new level of disgust !!

  32. Vestas says:

    So SLAB support the public abuse of children.

    I hope Ms Wiles reaps what she sows.

  33. Murray McCallum says:

    Worth noting that a OneNation Labour candidate views a news website that dares to challenge the state broadcaster and newspaper barons as “extremist”.

    One Nation Labour are the establishment. They like austerity and lack of equality exactly the way they are.

  34. heedtracker says:

    John Ruddy rings an extremely anti independence bell from Guardian CiF but he seemed quite dim, and a bit nasty if you dared challenge him. In fact he always seemed totally obsessed/fixated/defending everything Labour in the south of England and he’s the Labour who on the Labour what in Angus? lol

  35. Free at 63! says:

    Just when I think they can’t stoop any lower… Despicable.

    Lorna you have brought your son up well, you should be very proud of him – he’s a credit to you.

    I hope you have reported this to the police, especially as you have a screen-shot.

  36. Craig says:

    Shocker, I had a feeling fannybaws Hothersall would be involved in this somehow

  37. Drunken Hobo says:

    Perhaps optimistically, I checked her Twitter in the hope that there’d be some sort of apology:

    “Was trying to highlight risks inherent in exposing kids to extreme groups like WoS. Too subtle for tweet. 1/
    2/ so I will blog about it instead. In no way comparing those kids to HY. But lesson learned by me.”

    Nope, apparently not. It was everybody else’s fault for not understanding her “subtle” tweet, and it was only WoS she was comparing to the Nazis. A much fairer comparison; remember that time Rev. Stu murdered 11,000,000 civilians?

  38. galamcennalath says:

    You can just sense the panic among the NaeSayers. They have lost the plot in their state of desperation.

    More importantly, they have lost the debate, lost all credibility, lost support and the realise themselves they have already lost in September. I become more certain of a Yes win with every day of more and more out of control NaeSayer antics.

  39. tartanarse says:

    I suppose we could all find pictures of kids online demonstrating with parents but there’s no way on this earth will I be entering the phrase
    “images of children” into any search engine.

  40. Coolheads Prevail says:

    Remember this come election time, voters of Angus, because Ms Wiles will doubtless have forgotten.

  41. Lorna Craig says:

    Hi Stuart,

    The kids on either end of the ‘Aye’ are my two.

    Kim is 10 and is a member of UNICEF through her own choosing. She is possibly the most kind hearted kid ever and is horrified that children in Scotland are hungry. She is very interested in the referendum debate and chooses to come out newspaper dropping for YES West Lothian. If she could vote, she has stated that she would support Scottish Greens (this differs from my views) so she clearly has a mind of her own. The wee lad at the start is Tony my 8 year old. He volunteered to come to the protest (I went alone to the last one). Tony love his Tshirt that said “bairns not bombs” but questioned the back as in his words “it’s not just my future mum, it’s for everyone”

    Think our kids are more clued up than they are given credit.

  42. Paula Rose says:

    GOSH – I am extreme?

  43. Vestas says:

    Amusingly it appears the Forfar rag (Johnston crap, no surprise there) have felt the need to pixellate her face.

    I do SO hope she gets what she deserves.

  44. Indigo says:

    Thanks folks, anyone who saw the three cousins yesterday, and many, many people did, would have seen how much they enjoyed the day and how much their participation in it was driven by them.

    They were among the first on the steps and they stayed there for hours, dancing, playing and posing for photos with some of the other children attending. As their parents and grandparents we just watched and enjoyed seeing them interact with people and enjoy the wonderful atmosphere at the event.

  45. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oops!

    I don’t know what has just happened there but apparently, I have no idea how mind you, I seem to have sent a couple of tweets to BBC Scotland News about this. I am not very good at anything technological, well truth be told I’m not very good at anything full stop. 😛

    @BBCScotlandNews you made great noise out of the Lally affair how about same over Wiles. abuse of kids at protest! http://tinyurl.com/pp4dgm9

    @BBCScotlandNews if you FAIL, as I know you will, to give this story http://tinyurl.com/pp4dgm9
    the same amount of coverage as the Lally 1/2

    @BBCScotlandNews affair then you will confirmed what Sunday was all about YOU ARE A BIASED ORGANISATION!

    Perhaps someone who is technologically minded might be able to fathom out what has happened here. 😉 😛

  46. David Agnew says:

    Pretty wretched. I didn’t really need reasons to vote yes. I don’t think they have any idea that yes or no, they lose.

  47. Balaaargh says:

    It’s bad enough when Darling admitting he thinks we’re nazis but now some political non-entity thinks our kids are too! If they had a brain cell between them, they’d be competent.

    Not that I have to worry about my Son being a nazi – he was born in England so on a YES vote I’ll have to put him on a train back to the Midlands as he’ll be one of those nasty furriners!

  48. heedtracker says:

    Is John Ruddy 5? No its his son. Another Labour in Scotland activist CiFer on the Guardian just like Ruddy, Welsh Niclas, did this too, use his children as his twitter photo. The very creepy hypocrisy from these Labour activists is sad really although they’re probably just a bit thick. Why would grown men like Ruddy make ferocious usually personalised anti independence Scotland attacks from twitter accounts with their own very young children on the front?

  49. Douglas Gourlay says:

    Haven’t the Westminster government just distributed a shiny booklet to every Scottish household with a group of children running across a hill???

  50. ForeverScotland says:

    Well I hope the constituents of Angus complain about Kathy Wiles and should keep their kids clear from this person as she attempts to get support for her seat.

  51. Castle Rock says:

    Just had a look at some of the profiles in those tweets and its made up of people who are either mad, sad, radge or, in the case of Duncan Hothersall, all three.

    And what’s with all the Union Jacks??? Its like a BNP rally.

  52. Nana Smith says:

    @Lesley Ann

    Well done you! Yes you are good at stuff…

  53. Betsy says:

    Kathy Wiles appears to be a bit of a loose canon! For those of you not on Twitter she’s also accused the Rev of benefit fraud and the DWP of having released the information. Not one of Labour’s wisest selections to say the least.

  54. Minty says:

    I see she’s been breaching the Data Protection Act as well. Courts do take ever such a dim view of that #justsayin

  55. David Briggs says:

    You have to counterpoint this with the Clare Lally stushie and wonder How she would compare her own experiences compared to this lady and her three children.

    Will this be in the papers tomorrow? somehow I doubt it.

  56. Paula Rose says:

    OMG – just realised I’m extreme because I care deeply that a young woman is starving in the country I live in…

  57. Where are these people in the NO camp coming from? If it,s not “blood and soil” then it is comparing innocent free thinking kids to the Hitler youth movement. Is there no limit to how far they will stoop. I hope the FM and his deputy are aware of this slur and bring it to the attention of Lamont and asking is this the standard to which the labour party has reached.

  58. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oops forgot to congratulate you Lorna on having such a switched on son and nephew and niece. 😉

    Paula Rose says:

    GOSH – I am extreme?

    Dammit Paula, if YOU are extreme…what the hell does that make me? 😛

    Well wouldn’t you know it. Just been back on Twitter and it’s happened again, I’ve apparently sent another tweet that I know nothing about. 😉 😛

    @policescotland would you consider this worthy of an investigation? http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kwiles.jpg

    I must really go and get this seen to, what ever it is. 😛

  59. David Briggs says:

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    Brilliant video for anyone who hasn’t seen it.

    A WOS man talking eloquently.

  60. Bob Sinclair says:

    Lorna Young
    I was there and the children are a credit to you.

  61. Lesley-Anne says:

    Nana Smith says:

    @Lesley Ann

    Well done you! Yes you are good at stuff…

    Thanks for that Nana. You do know of course that I’ll never be able to get out of the Living room now, my head has just expanded to an amazing size! 😛

    Note to Daily Mail

    You are right, your eyes did NOT deceive you. I DID say Living room. I do NOT have my computer in the bedroom. MY computer is in the LIVING ROOM. So we’ll have no more “nasty cybernats sitting at their computers in their bedromms” type headlines, got it! 😉

    P.S. Note to all Wingers.

    The bedroom is where my partner has HER computer, but don’t tell the Daily Mail, Mum’s the word O.K.? 😉 😛

  62. daddydode says:

    Omg that kathy wiles is one of the nadtiest from the better together pages when challenged she rants of about men needing to slap women a very unstable female indeed

  63. stuart says:

    Can the Police not get involved in this? Does anyone know?

  64. Big Al says:

    When Jim Murphy MP is complaining about this protest I wonder what home address he is using !!

    On a general point – The active No voter are devoid of rational thought process normally they are me me me mentality the unengaged voters need to be engaged with the facts from there they can make an informed decision ????

  65. Al says:

    Since in the event of a no vote, Westminster welfare cuts threaten to push up to 100,000 more children in Scotland into poverty by 2020, surely children themselves have a right to have their voice heard.

    Subjecting children to vile online Britnat abuse for doing so is beneath contempt.

  66. YESGUY says:

    Good on you LORNA

    Great pics from the demo at PQ yesterday and bringing up our kids to understand politics at an early age is brilliant compared with the “dumbing down” these days.

    As for the BT snipes.

    Hypocritical scum that they are deserve nothing but contempt and anyone voting for that disgusting women needs their heads looked at.

    We are winning folks. Same ole sh*t churned out same lies , smears, and scares . Some one should tell them the needle is stuck on their record player.

    Sorry O/T

    Stu . Every time i meet a no voter they spout all the scares so when i ask for ONE reason why a man like me, disabled , on benefits awaiting a work assessment against my doctors and specialist advice, would vote No they can’t give me it. NOT ONE. And i give them plenty of time to answer. Just the old “sitting at the big table, use of the pound” blah blah etc.

    When i ask how many disabled and infirm are dead because of the cuts they shut up and know they are losing the argument. What sticks in my throat is they are all working class folk who’ve suddenly gone all “British is best”. Most of their parents where miners steelworkers etc who ended up on the dole for years.

    I wish their parents had shown them a little about politics when they where young although i doubt some would still be there spouting the unionist bull…..

    Sorry rant over…… ( But i DO feel better now)

  67. 1 This needs to go to the selection panel.
    2 Awareness of the political structures, system and thinking for oneself to analyse the particular is not incongruous with some of the Es and Os of the Curriculum for Excellence (understnading nationhood etc) – no ideal how old these children but I reckon about 9 or ten.
    3 Has anyone objected to the MacTrap children on the No, Thanks window decor psper supplied by the govt.
    4 Enough w. the Nazi smears.

    The mother in q. needs to take this much further. I would say to the press…but a) the kids do not deserve to become unwitting performers in a media circus; and b) well what press.

  68. Jacqui Ringrose says:

    I am the proud mother of the Y and the E. My wonderful children had a great day yesterday. They learned about freedom of speech, freedom to protest and about how propaganda is used to shape us. My Mum, their Granny, came up with this wonderful T-shirt idea and the kids loved it immediately. We could not stop them posing, we could not keep them from waving their flags and nothing was stopping them from climbing the steps in front of the BBC. They were the fist ones there, the others followed. When the Wings guys arrived with the banner we had to stop the A child from his airplane wings performance – so delighted was he to see the banner and stand under it! Thanks to my sister Lorna for her email to Stuart and thank you Stuart for your article.

  69. Bob Sinclair says:

    Please please please, anyone campaigning in Kathy Wiles area make sure that everyone knows what their prospective Labour candidate is.

    What with this and the deranged tweeting from Ally D’s missus I think its quite clear they’ve thrown in the towel as regards any attempt at being reasonable, they are pond-life.

    If we had a MSM we could trust then it would be fair to say lets fight fire with fire and ‘do unto them’ etc. But probably more wise to be on best behaviour.

  70. Kenny says:

    Wait…Stu funded 9/11? Shit. I thought he’d just made a ricockulous remark about it in a blatant display of comic hyperbole. Still, libel is libel… 😉

  71. Mary Bruce says:

    I just had a read down through all the rest of her tweets, they were mildly spiteful with smatterings of insults and put downs. As expected. Not one single plus reason for voting no, just smears and insults. Amazing. If you want a snapshot of what campaign tactics of the no team are just have a quick look at her feed:

    https://twitter.com/KathyWforAngus/with_replies

    The thing that these SLabbers don’t seem to grasp is that if it is a no vote they will still need all the folk that they are currently insulting to vote for them in the future.

    It almost certain that SLabour have totally alienated something like, what? half a million? Labour for Indy and SNP tactical voters out there who voted for them in 2010 but who will very likely tell them to eff off in 2015. I’m one of them. I’d rather eat cat food for the rest of my life than give them my vote again, bunch of insulting, offensive fools.

  72. fiona mcmaster says:

    Congratulations to Lorna Young for bringing up such well balanced kids. Kids with enquiring minds are an asset to any country and grow into well balanced adults who tend not to make snap judgments about others. They also rarely make cheap and nasty remarks preferring reasoned and positive contributions to debate instead. Just the sort of people we want to be running Scotland when they are a little older ! (they are already clearly wiser than Ms.Wiles can ever aspire to be)
    Finally, having raised 5 strong willed and strong minded children, I have yet to meet anyone who can force a 7 year old to wear anything her or she doesn’t wish to far less pose for a photo. Their choice was clearly YES YES YES

  73. Murray McCallum says:

    OneNation Labour seem to be reveling in wrestling the mantle of the “nasty party” from the Tories.

    This Wiles candidate seems to resent and despise the unemployed. She seems to have zero empathy. It’s almost as if Rachel McVey-Reeves is hand picking Labour candidates.

  74. Peter Mechan says:

    With all the cybernat rubbish, Police getting involved in JK Rowling etc, I really urge you to take this to the Police and push for action to ne taken, an investigation at least to be carried out and the candidate herself to be interviewed by the Police. Enough is enough, let’s stop being polite and start putting the heat on them!

  75. Minty says:

    Interesting that she thinks SNP voters are all on benefits. The most affluent and successful people I know are all SNP voters now, having been alienated by Slab and the Tories. Being better off doesn’t mean you lose any sense of the need for a safety net to support others.

  76. indigo says:

    Thanks all, we won’t be speaking to the Police or to other media. The email was sent to Stu as the tweets were implying unpleasant associations, linking Wings and the children. I wanted to explain the circumstances of the photos that were taken to Stu and also wanted explain the background to the children’s determination to be involved in yesterday’s event and their desire for their voices to be heard.

    It was such a happy and positive day yesterday, didn’t want their participation in the event to be sullied without the children’s point of view being made clear.

  77. Big Jock says:

    It was the anti Irish comment with the Brit flag that got me.Typical of the nasty Brit brigade to bring the Irish into what is a Scottish debate.Apart from anything for what the Brits did to the Irish.They should be utterly ashamed not demonizing the nation that kicked them out!

  78. Big Jock says:

    Oh and incidently my two gay neighbours saw my Yes badge and put their yes badge on their car.This is the yes campaign that is narrow minded and bigoted!

  79. David Fletcher says:

    Next we’ll see local politicians, that have allegedly have had “cybernats” threaten them and their children, out canvassing and being photographed WITH those children! Oh hang on…..

    https://twitter.com/Thomas_Docherty/status/470181200087515137

  80. John H. says:

    My wife and I enjoyed the friendly family atmosphere at Pacific Quay yesterday.The kids all appeared to have a great time as well, enjoying the sunshine with their parents.

    It didn’t occur to us then that someone would find a way to twist such a happy event into something evil.We should have known better.The Labour Party are a disgrace, and there’s no place for people like these in the Scotland we all want to build after the Yes vote.

  81. Paula Rose says:

    Gay stuff? but we are thrawn folk – yippee.

  82. alexicon says:

    Mr Wiles is a vile creature and I do hope the YES people in Angus distribute this story through the doors of Angus.
    That mutley one was a regular on the daily retard a few years back and trust me it was well named when a knuckle dragger like him was reading it.
    I wonder if the MSM will pick up on the vile abuse of children by Wiles?
    Wiles & vile, it sort of rhymes.

  83. muttley79 says:

    It really cannot come as a surprise these days sadly. I mean these individuals are hearing the most extreme things from their leaders about the independence movement, particularly the SNP. We had the virus stuff from Johann Lamont, then she said Scots were not genetically modified to make political decisions. We had Darling’s recent blood and soil poison as well. Anyone who has read what the likes of John Ruddy and Niclas come out with on Guardian Cif will not be surprised about their Tweets either.

    The SLAB leadership really have been completely irresponsible, irrational, and out of order, particularly since 2011. This is the level they have presented to their followers; they see children at a Yes associated event, and they call them Hitler Youth. This is bonkers, highly irrational, toxic, and dangerous rhetoric from the No campaign. From a prospective parliamentary candidate, it is atrocious and shameful to be coming out with these horrible remarks. I see she has also attacked people on benefits as well. This is coming from a party who held office during the worst financial crisis since the 1930s, and now she is attacking benefit claimants, rather than the City of London and the spiv bankers. What a disgraceful state the Labour Party is in.

  84. Cindie says:

    @indigo, thanks for sharing your story. The children looked as if they were having such fun. I hope this hasn’t spoiled it for them.

    @Mary Bruce, you are so right about the no campaign, just smears and nasty comments, it really is disturbing. Stu will forever have my admiration for what he puts up with

  85. Paula Rose says:

    btw – anyone ken what the Labour Party are? Do they do deliveries?

  86. Colin says:

    This will make a lovely leaflet in the run up to the 2015 election, if she bothers to stand after a Yes vote.

    Not too costly to print 10,000 of them and I am sure there will be enough willing hands to put them through doors in Angus.

  87. Lesley-Anne says:

    That’s Ms Wiles alexicon, just a wee head’s up. 😉

    O/T I’ve just seen the Land Rover advert for the umpteenth time and have come to the conclusion that it is actually an extremely subtle advert for YES. 😉 😛

  88. Stephen Dunlop says:

    The unionist propaganda that arrived through every door in Scotland quite clearly has a bunch of kids on the front of it. If any of us had criticised that it would have been all over the mainstream media.

  89. Big Jock says:

    I think what is coming out of this whole thing.Is the fact that most of the hard line unionists are just anti Scottish anti Irish anti anyone who is not queen and country.But we have always known about Scotland’s shame.We just didn’t realise it was so mainstream.Also that there are people of Irish Catholic descent in the Labour party quite happy to share a union platform with the Orange Order,BNP,SDL,Tories,Ukip etc.Its a funny old world!

  90. caz-m says:

    O/T
    Ashcroft National Poll: Con 33%, Lab 31%, Lib Dem 9%, UKIP 15%

    Lord Ashcroft Poll shows Tories are now 2 points in front of Labour.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/06/ashcroft-national-poll-con-33-lab-31-lib-dem-9-ukip-15/

    It goes from bad to worse for Labour.

  91. Paula Rose says:

    Big Jock – Aye that’ll be the one, there is no other!

  92. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And does anyone think that Gabe was FORCED to take hold of the mike and sing?

    Elements within the SLAB party seem hell-bent on ruining any chance they might have had of being the majority party in the 2016 Scottish election, either independent or still shackled to Westminster.

    More people are becoming aware of their behaviour, which is (more than) nudging folk from NO to Don’t Know and from there to YES.

    As I typed last week, I think the YES side has passed the ‘tipping point’ through the grass roots campaign and the utter ©®@p from ‘Better Together / No Thanks’ that is reported in the MSM. People urnae daft. The NO side thinks they are.

    How long will it take for the polling companies to reflect that we are past the tipping point, if all they do is depend on their usual respondents? Here are just two results from the Courier’s Referendum Roadshow last week.

    “The ping pong ball system employed by Courier pollsters, in which people indicated their voting intentions by placing a yellow or white ball in a “Yes” or “No” tube, saw the result firmly in favour of independence in Arbroath, with 63% for and 37% against.
    Carnoustie voters were of a similar mind, with 64% indicating they would vote Yes and 36% No.”

    That’s from:-
    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/angus-the-mearns/opinions-galore-as-courier-referendum-roadshow-comes-to-an-end-1.445598

  93. Paula Rose says:

    Oh well – that time again, off to do leaflets through doors – kisses darlings.

  94. joe kane says:

    You really do have to love the intersectionality of Scottish Labour LGBT activists and its MPs. A powerful group of people publicly bleating about being oppressed by their victims.

    According them they’re being oppressed by children and bullied by disabled people some of whom were too sick and disabled to make it to the protest.

    I feel their pain. Poor wee things.

  95. Luigi says:

    It goes from bad to worse for Labour.

    When you factor in the tactical UKIP vote, we are already into Tory landslide territory.

  96. packhorse pete says:

    After the Yes vote, there will be a “roll of shame” for these kind of people. We can all think of the politicians, the “journalists” and the broadcasters, happy to endlessly put their country down. I hope they’re happy to be aligned for all time with a squalid and uninspiring campaign to prevent the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland being realised.
    They will fail; and their heirs will look at them 100 years from now and wonder how their family managed to have such mendacious and cowardly antecedents.

  97. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon –

    Yahay!

    There’s our old pal…’Sixty-Three-Per-Cent’.

    Always nice to see him…

  98. caz-m says:

    The Labour Party have an Anus, Balls

    and now have a perr of diddies,

    otherwise known as Murphy and Alexander.

    Boom! Boom!

  99. Another Union Dividend says:

    o/t Worth watching the Channel 4 Dispatches programme (repeated on 4+1 at 9 pm) which exposes the Scotch Whisky Association’s disgraceful tactics to subvert the majority will of the Scottish Parliament on Alcohol Minimum Pricing.

  100. Lesley-Anne says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:

    And does anyone think that Gabe was FORCED to take hold of the mike and sing?

    I think the answer to that one is definitely a NO Brian. More importantly could you imagine the MSM headlines if he had NOT been allowed to sing yesterday? 😛

    Nasty cybernats shouting and singing against the politically neutral BBC prevent young boy from singing despite repeated pleas from his mother!”

  101. Chic McGregor says:

    I was at the demo and managed to take a couple of video scans of the crowd.

    Here is the one from the grassy bank.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTens0SZlno

    My estimate was that the main crowd was about 25 bodies across by about 30 deep, i.e. about 700 ish.

    When I was down on the plaza I counted those on the two sides which had grassy banks, they came to about 120,

    Also along the wall of the BBC centre there was about 60.

    Stragglers and small groups in the back third of the plaza were hard to estimate since they were generally moving about, but I reckon about 60 or so.

    Total, something like 850.

    The 350 BBC figure is a joke but OTOH only about 50 more than I predicted they would say at the time.

  102. Anne Lawrie says:

    Such a complete contrast at the BBC on Sunday, to the DPAC protest at Westminster Abbey. It was a truly fun, family day with not a hint of trouble. As far as I could see there were 4 policemen – two of whom were on bicycles, who were chatting & smiling with everyone. I seriously cannot understand the hate-filled vitriol coming from some really nasty individuals.
    It will be interesting to see the behaviour of the OO in Edinburgh in September. Their reputation in the past is less than exemplary. I would seriously suggest that all Yes campaigners stay well away that day. Any sign of trouble and it will be laid firmly at the door of the yes campaign. Let them cause their trouble all by themselves! It can only help us!

  103. Clootie says:

    It’s going to make a great little poster for the GE campaign next year.

  104. Tam Jardine says:

    Low – even for the No camp.

    What an embarrassment – lucky for Ms Wiles she has a compliant media willing to turn a blind eye to any transgression.

    Duncan H the apologist is sad, so very sad. He has truly lost the way in this referendum. I think he is just narked that Stu gets the better of him All the time on twitter but at the end of the day we are all adults and ye canny go around making insinuations and accusations like that.

    They are to be pitied.

    O/T Area C on Leith Walk is the first business I have seem with a Yes up in the windae – if you are in the neighbourhood show em some support team.

    Countdown to Friday – 4th July in the basement of the Newsroom. You can all leave your jackboots at the door and join me in the Bavarian March…. or rather meet like minded, pleasant and good humoured individuals who want to make our country a better place for our children and children’s children.

    Ms Wiles – you might have learnt something if you’d come along but I wouldn’t bother if I were you. We’d have nothing in common.

  105. Colin Morrison says:

    When following this thread I noted D Hothersall had the sense to head for the long grass but not a word of condemnation.

  106. HandandShrimp says:

    The BBC protest was a relatively short, peaceful easy going affair with music. It was not a black bloc anarchist riot.

    I was happy for my daughter to go the anti-Iraq war march in Glasgow back in 2003. I unfortunately couldn’t make it but she and her Mum had a blast. Not that people like John Ruddy and Kathy Wiles would understand…they were too busy cheer leading for Bush

    I don’t think we need to take any lessons in family and politics from the No side.

    As far the perpetual Godwin machine that now passes for the No campaign, people can that this is just baseless smear. They aren’t endearing themselves to anyone but themselves.

  107. Andy-B says:

    I don’t think Kathy Wiles is a fit and proper person to be a Labour parliamentary candidate for Angus, after posting that vile picture, and comparing it to Scottish children. Complaints to the proper authorities should be made by one and all,to have her removed from the process.

    We can’t have Labour candidates running around posting disgusting pictures, and then contemplate electing that person.

  108. Big Jock says:

    My work colleagues niece was late for her wedding.Guess what the bridle car got stuck behind an Orange Walk.She wrote to complain and it made the local press.The dregs of society on your wedding day…shame.

  109. Wp says:

    Well done to all that went yesterday. Recent events will make the next one interesting.
    We knew it would get nastier. And it’s going to get worse I’m afraid. Be alert.

  110. John says:

    Just a cautionary note about children involved in politics:
    http://www.opencouncil.co.uk/conservative%20humour%20tory%20boy.html

    Yes indeed turns in to failed Tory leader and current UK Foreign Secretary.
    I do like his work on reducing sexual violence in war zones. Credit where it’s due.

  111. annie says:

    This woman will not be deselected, this nasty campaign of demonising Yes supporters is being encouraged from the top. Alastair Darling’s wife tweeted the mocked up photo of Alex Salmond as the North Korean dictator.

  112. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    “After the Yes vote, there will be a “roll of shame” for these kind of people. We can all think of the politicians, the “journalists” and the broadcasters, happy to endlessly put their country down. I hope they’re happy to be aligned for all time with a squalid and uninspiring campaign to prevent the democratic wishes of the people of Scotland being realised.
    They will fail; and their heirs will look at them 100 years from now and wonder how their family managed to have such mendacious and cowardly antecedents.”

    how could anyone not agree with those word?

  113. Magnus Ramage says:

    At age 3 (during one of the 1974 elections), I was a child campaigner for the SNP as my parents were involved with them. One of my first public statements was “Vote for Cameron Aitken”.

    Didn’t do me any harm, and I managed to form my own political views perfectly well. This kind of smearing is ridiculous.

  114. kestral says:

    Lorna your kids are amazing

    I took my 5 year old to Iraq protest years ago

    Never forced my views on him, but recently he bought a poster

    It has a plane dropping bombs and on each bomb is a word

    Let me show you how democracy works

    Needless to say I sat him down for a chat on the fact that not all Americans believe this and that you should be very careful about painting all people with one brush

    God the poor soul will be lost in shades of grey

    And no not the book

  115. muttley79 says:

    @annie

    Alastair Darling’s wife tweeted the mocked up photo of Alex Salmond as the North Korean dictator.

    Really? Does anyone have that image?

  116. Donald says:

    I know it’s off topic Rev but a friend of mine just pointed me towards an article in the Telegraph which quotes Michael Gove as saying:

    “Vladimir Putin would be invigorated by Scottish independence, Michael Gove said yesterday in rare comments on the referendum debate. The Russian leader would think the United Kingdom’s separation puts him in a “stronger position” to dictate to the world, the Education Secretary warned.Enemies of the West would cheer a Yes vote because the “second principal beacon of liberty” in the world would become more unstable, he suggested.

  117. john king says:

    tell em to cram it Lorna, your a hero

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuwNwsqHmQ

  118. Wifey4Indy says:

    The idea that children don’t have political views is patronising nonsense. I find young people have a very heightened sense of justice which unfortunately often gets dulled by the struggles of adult life.
    When I took my son to see the new Scottish Parliament building he said it was a pity it wasn’t our “real” parliament and promptly decided that he would stand as SNP in his Primary School’s mock elections. He was also the one who was desperate to come with me to “Make Poverty History” in 2005 when he was 11 years old.
    My German husband is utterely shocked at the casual way that Naziism is used as an insult here for SNP and YES supporters. That someone so narrow minded is standing for parliament (of any kind) is deeply disturbing. Someone involved in education should have more respect for young people!

  119. Lesley-Anne says:

    WOO HOO!

    Just taken delivery of our YES Scotland flags. I can’t take the massive grin off my face! Think I’ll need to visit the hospital for a grin removal operation, NOT before 19th September though. 😛

    Oh hang on I cannae have the operation then either cause the grin will have just got so much bigger again! 😛

  120. Kev says:

    A hideous slur. Every bit as disturbing as the Nazi sign scratched onto SNP MSP for Angus, Graeme Dey’s office over the weekend. He has, quite rightly, contacted the police. Wonder if either of these cases will be covered by the media, afterall didn’t Edinburgh South Labour MP Ian Murray get a fair bit of publicity for having to deal with the terror of a few Yes stickers a while back?

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Graeme-Dey-SNP-A-Strong-Voice-For-Angus-South/169128606463223

  121. John D aka Nkosi says:

    sick, my Dad and his brother fought to get rid of those in WW2 it seems we still have them among us. Ms. Wiles is despicable.

  122. Croompenstein says:

    OT – Alex Massie says –

    The BBC gives UKIP plenty of airtime (partly because Mr Farage’s party exert a kind of appalling fascination and partly because BBC executives worry, deep down and just a little, that they might be missing something important)

    FFS Alex they are missing the most important something and that is the something that will end the union on the 18th September. Wake up the lot of you the union is a busted flush

  123. HandandShrimp says:

    Kev

    As far as one could tell it was one small Yes sticker…it was a particularly terrifying one though…it said Yes.

  124. indigo says:

    What a beautiful song @john king

    The children might be heroes not us – myself, my sister, brother in law and the children’s grandparents were a bit gobsmacked at their energy and positivity yesterday – there were sooo many smiles.

    You’re absolutely right @Wifey4Indy – the three of them have a very strong sense of justice, which combined with hope and a desire to act is powerful indeed.

    @kestral sounds like we have a similar approach to parenting, encouraging questions and explaining the shades of grey that exist in any debate. ‘Some people think this, some people think that…’ and let them make their own minds up.

  125. west_lothian_questioner says:

    Ok… hands up everyone/anyone who is truly surprised…

    o/t … Hello to the YESsers at Polbeth Gala at the weekend 🙂

  126. Gordon E says:

    Not much chance of Kathy Wiles getting elected in Angus, it is a straight choice between SNP and Conservative.
    Thankfully the SNP have had it for the last 10 years.

  127. HandandShrimp says:

    Muttley

    There you go, I don’t know anything about the back story of this latest Twitter spat…of which there seems to be an increasing amount.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=475927392510676&set=a.410143359089080.1073741828.337600349676715&type=1&theater

  128. Chris Cairns says:

    @ Douglas Gourlay – got there ahead of me. The insanity of attacking kids being photographed in a pro-indy demo while the UK Gov posts a pro-union booklet packed with photos of smiling weans through every letterbox in the country is beyond hypocrisy. I don’t believe they are capable of understanding their own ‘arguments’ any more – they’re just lashing out at anything that passes their field of vision.
    I’ve said it before but this level of absurdity is really difficult to parody. Come on, Better Together – at least make an effort!

  129. Taranaich says:

    I’m in a rather foul mood today: not only do I find one of my friends actually liked “No to Scottish Independence and Maintain the Union” (https://www.facebook.com/VoteNo2014?ref=stream) – I can just about stand that he liked the official Better Together page and supports Alistair Darling, without liking that den of iniquity – but then this comes up.

    A young member of my family is very enthusiastic about the referendum, but we made it a point not to involve her for fear of exactly this sort of thing. The thing is, she’s the one who asks us about it. She asks why we’re so interested, what the arguments are, what we’re doing. And she insists on getting involved. As such, she’s been the founder of a pro-independence mini-collective at her school – again, not only did we not put her up to this, we couldn’t stop her. She is unable to vote, of course, but she’s made an impact at the school – and the children’s parents are listening.

    See, those Labour activists think kids are stupid. “I’d rather they played or did homework” – yes, children, you adhere to your predetermined role until you’re old enough to get a zero-hours contract or go into college & university to get a useless degree. They think that the only way to shield children from dangers is to shut them off from them – pretend they don’t exist. But all that’s going to do is foster ignorance and misunderstanding: surely discussing it with your child, explaining why you think that way, will be far more effective? Children may not have experience or knowledge which would be capable of providing informed consent to vote, but that doesn’t mean they have no right to an opinion.

    In 2004, the Scottish Parliament produced “Protecting Children and Young People: The Charter,” which contains the following:

    “As children and young people we have the right to be protected and be safe from harm from others. When we have difficulties or problems we expect you to:

    get to know us – speak with us
    listen to us
    take us seriously
    involve us

    respect our privacy
    be responsible to us
    think about our lives as a whole
    think carefully about how you use information about us
    put us in touch with the right people

    use your power to help
    make things happen when they should
    help us be safe”

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2004/04/19082/34410

    That children cannot vote in the referendum does not mean their voices deserve to be ignored, nor that their minds should be shielded. My young family member is already frustrated that she doesn’t have a vote despite being vastly more informed than a good deal of 16, 18, even 50-year-olds – and given she won her debate at school and convinced a visiting delegation to vote for her as Leader of the Free World, I’m starting to believe her!

    I just think back to No Border’s “Will Granny & Granda Become Foreigners” stunt, Milliband’s sob story about the unnamed child, and – God forgive me – Clare Lally’s disabled child (do we know her daughter’s views? Has anyone even asked?). The role of children in the No campaign is tools of manipulation, to tug at the heartstrings of people. They must not ever be actually ENGAGED, of course – because how can you explain to your children that being foreign is a bad thing while accusing The Nats(tm) of that exact insular xenophobia?

    The No camp are right about one thing, though: using children – as in, exploiting them in the manner one uses a tool or object without their consent or understanding – is wrong. But including children on a basis based on consent and understanding when that is what they want is acknowledging their basic rights as a sentient being.

  130. Gordon E says:

    On the question of kids at the demo, my 12 year old son was given the choice of going to the Bannockburn event or go to Pacific Quay and to my surprise he said he would like to make a difference and go to the BBC demo.
    We had an excellent time and it was great to see so many kids.
    Full marks to the pandas who must have been roasting in the sunshine!

  131. west_lothian_questioner says:

    Taranaich… absolute cracker of a post!

  132. Paula Rose says:

    Taranaich honey – you are a doll – for everyone else, read this man’s posts, respect.

  133. Graeme Doig says:

    What a bunch of sickening morons these people are (apologies to morons). I wouldn’t let any of them near my kids.
    Glad to be on the right side.
    Unionists – the end is nigh!

  134. indigo says:

    Wow Taranaich, just wow, thank you, you’ve summed the issue up perfectly

  135. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Taranaich –

    Hear, hear, as ever.

    More power to ye mister.

  136. Giving Goose says:

    We shouldn’t be surprised at the actions of this Labour Politician. People like her do not care for Scottish children. Labour in Scotland are very comfortable with disgracefully high levels of child poverty.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/we-need-to-talk-about-glasgow/

    Artificially high levels create a dependency culture which Labour then reason will lead to voters selecting Labour at the ballot box.

    Scottish Labour; A cruel Party. A disgraceful party. A party that actively works to create poverty.

  137. Defo says:

    And on your big day too Kathy. Shameful, and tasteless. Aren’t you clever. At what point, between send and delete did you cotton on to your being, not just a complete erse, but also a xenophobic, sociopathic one ?
    That’s right, at no point. Too far gone on the smell of gravy.

  138. Mary Bruce says:

    @Tam Jardine, “lucky for Ms Wiles she has a compliant media willing to turn a blind eye to any transgression.”

    The thing is, the media are only compliant until the 18th September. After that most of them will turn on the Labour party. Ms Wiles will never get away from this, it will follow her forever. She’s toast if it’s a yes vote and she’s toast if it’s a no vote.

    Having said that, I hope they hold on to her as she is now a liability.

  139. Free at 63! says:

    Eloquently stated, Taranaich, well done.

  140. caz-m says:

    I have noticed lately that the patronising humour that you got from the NO side has gone. It has been replaced by a frightened realisation that they very well might lose this thing. That the YES side could actually win this.

    This turns to a nervous anger, lashing out with vile statements and I just wonder how they are going to cope with a crushing defeat.

    And it will only be made worse with me wearing my “Get Over It” badges and wristbands.

    Oh Diddums.

  141. Lesley-Anne says:

    Excellent post there Taranaich, makes the point exactly as the Better Thanks gang do NOT want it to made. Stick it straight between the e’en I love it! 😉

    Apology accepted Graeme. As temporary stand in chair of the Morons are us conglomerate I think I can say, without fear of retribution, that we morons one and all understood that you were not referring to any of us. We also understand that you have to call these morons something. 😛

  142. DaveDee says:

    Alistair Darlings wife is on twitter for one reason only and that’s in the hope she get’s abuse.

    It’s probably not even her that’s tweeting from it.

    Best ignored.

  143. Lesley-Anne says:

    If that Ms Wiles wants Nazis then perhaps she should apply here. (posted by James Niven on Twitter.) 😛

    http://tinyurl.com/o7cwgsr

  144. gillie says:

    Only someone with a poisoned mind could compare those kids to the Hitler Youth. Kathy Wiles should not be allowed near children if that is the way she behaves.

  145. Bob Sinclair says:

    Taranaich said:

    ‘They think that the only way to shield children from dangers is to shut them off from them – pretend they don’t exist.’

    And therein lie probably the roots of disengagement of a lot of younger people today. If you are not allowed to experience life, warts and all, then how can you possibly have a balanced world view.

    Our media for at least the last 30 years has been using a mixture of Patriotism with all the Britains Best..type programmes, Jingoism via massive unquestioning coverage of illegal wars and Fear via programmes like Crimewatch which to me appear to make a virtue of exaggerating the threat of crime.

    With a daily diet of this dross is it any wonder that there is a large section of the population who are totally disengaged, who would rather vote on ‘Britains got Talent’ or the ‘X Factor’ than in elections which have a real impact on their life.

    The world is a dangerous place. It’s also a place full of adventure and excitement. The only way to achieve something is to take risks – thats what I tell my kids anyway.

  146. Bunter says:

    If only SLab numpties understood that if a NO vote, then they will face not only the SNP campaign machine in the run up to the UK GE 2015, but also a fully functional and operational battle hardened YES movement who will put thousands on the streets campaigning to punish the lot of them at the ballot box.

    However It wont come to that will it SLab?

  147. Defo says:

    Did you notice, she was Godwins lucky 13 on the twitter thingy.
    Anyone call house ?

  148. G H Graham says:

    She’s worse than stupid if she thought that tweeting about kids being akin to Nazi Hitler Youth would never get mentioned on the very website the children were attracted to in the first place.

    Maybe Kathy Wiles should ditch her attempt at politics & apply for a job at Lidl stacking biscuits. I hear they want shelf stackers as thick as a wooden pallet but not so stupid that they can’t follow basic instructions.

    She’d be perfect.

  149. Johngranto says:

    Come on folks what do you expect , this IS the Labour Party in Scotland , rotten to the core , they have no rational argument , ignore them move on a lets bloody win this referendum

  150. jonGZ says:

    Sorry, people, jumping in for an OT
    I’m in the midst of a facebook battle, and I can’t find that Financial Times article about the positive prospects for the Indy economy. Can anyone help?
    Cheers, j

  151. Thepnr says:

    @Taranaich

    Spot on, adults are far too often guilty of ignoring the intelligence and real opinions that children often have.

    Having gone through a few dealings with well meaning adults as a young boy I have never forgotten no matter how well intentioned they can still be extremely ignorant.

    Indigo has and is doing a great job of bringing up their children, the No campaign using pictures of Hitler Youth for political point scoring is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    Sad creature you are Ms Wiles, I’m in Angus and never voted anything but Labour. Your career is toast before it’s even started because of your absolute stupidity.

    You too are not an “ordinary person” who at times may be excused for their foolishness. People expect their elected representatives to be above this purile rubbish.

  152. Kirsty says:

    Wow, who ever thought there’d be a day when people who were trying, peacefully, to achieve real democracy and fairness for their country would be seen as evil extremists?

    Doesn’t that tell a horrible story about the true state of affairs under the current system? One where to crave greater democracy for people makes you a “virus”. To want your country to run its own affairs means you just don’t understand that we’re “not genetically programmed to make political decisions”. To have a problem with people going hungry and to want an opportunity to build a fairer society makes you evil. To have a problem with media propaganda and bias makes you an extremist. It’s bewildering. And people want to vote No to retain this system, God help us all.

  153. Paula Rose says:

    Wha’s like us eh? You even let English roses like me in!

  154. Mary Bruce says:

    JonGZ, is this the one?

    http://archive.today/vcQ78

  155. Lesley-Anne says:

    This has just been tweeted about BBC protest #3.

    Okay fellow Yessers 27th July protest No. 3 @ 3pm outside BBC headquarters Glasgow spread the word about people so we can have big turn out

    We haven’t managed any one yet but are desperate to make this one. I really hope both of us can be in good health that day. 😉

  156. Doug Daniel says:

    Wait, kids read Wings?

    *stops swearing*

  157. Robert Graham says:

    christ it takes ages to scroll down to get your comment on here now soon there will need to be bouncers to control the wee-tiny-small-nothing to see here crowd ha ha so its “YES” all the goggle eyed nuts that are having these indoctrination brainwashing sessions thats being kept quiet by the media just in case this vile virus of wanting to make our own decisions god how could we be so silly i mean wanting to be like other normal countries i do hope it passes soon and we all feel normal again maybe the 19th of September would be a good start eh!

  158. Mary Bruce says:

    JonGZ, here’s a good one that came out today, it’s a report by the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accounting, about our public spending gap in iScotland being 6% compared to rUK of 11%

    http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2014/06/independent-scotland-spending-gap-would-be-smaller-than-uks-cipfa-finds/

  159. The Morgatron says:

    Kathy Viles more like. How come this apparent thick as shite idiot is hoping to get elected. What a slur to anyone who fought nazism and thought Scotland had a right to be indepedent , like my late father and many others who fought for her and her like to be free to preach hate and division .
    Kathy Piles = Arse.

  160. TD says:

    I’ve said it before and may say it again. There are two political parties that might, in the natural order of things, have been in with a chance of getting my vote in future elections and for whom I have voted in the past. Given their conduct in this referendum (and in one case their conduct in government), I will never, in their current incarnations and with current leadership, vote for either of them in any election whatever the outcome of the referendum.

    The two parties are of course SLAB and the Lib Dems. At the end of the day, pledging to deny them our vote is our “big gun” and if enough of us do it they will pay attention.

  161. Kirsty says:

    Doug Daniel,

    Maybe we can have “after the watershed” posts!

  162. Lesley-Anne says:

    Doug Daniel says:

    Wait, kids read Wings?

    *stops swearing*

    You mean you didn’t know? 😉

    I’m on here aint I surely that’s all the proof you would need. 😛

  163. DaveDee says:

    2230 tonight BBC2 Scotland

    Scotland 2014 – Referendum Debate.

    I think Jim Sillars is speaking at it

  164. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    If it’s any consolation to anyone (sorry I haven’t read the thread, only the article), I just got in from a Yes Tweeddale planning meeting.

    It was reported that the Aye Right leaflets were proving extremely effective campaigning tools, and more had been acquired. I took along a handful of the “I’m voting No because I don’t want anything to change” leaflets for approval, and everyone was tickled pink by them and thought they would be brilliant for this distinctly No-friendly area. I had thought about using them on tables at events, but they were immediately hailed as just what was wanted for canvassing because that was exactly what people were hearing on a lot of doorsteps. I’m requested to hand over what I’ve got and get more. We might be putting them out on leafleting drops in particularly No-leaning areas.

    Nobody, but nobody, expressed the slightest reservation about the Wings logo or being associated with Wings. Frankly I think the big “smear Wings” push isn’t even on the radar of 99% of activists, never mind the general public. That bunch of plonkers are just talking to themselves and a bunch of electrons.

  165. Free at 63! says:

    Leaving aside the indyref. Just look at the news headlines, from London in particular.

    Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, not to mention the vile Jimmy Savile, found guilty of sexual abuse of minors.

    Andy Coulson found guilty of conspiracy to hack phones and to face a retrial on the charges of ‘buying the royal phone book from police officers’. This goes right to the heart of the ‘Establishment’.

    How will the ‘Daily Record’ report it and how will their readers react?

    Did AS know/guess this would all come out now? He was an MP for about 25 years and knows how the system works and I am sure he is kept well up-to-date by his 4 MPs in HoC.

    Looking good for YES!

  166. caz-m says:

    Lesley_Anne

    I hope you make it and if you use Starbucks in the Science Centre at Pacific Quay, you will see this Starbucks “YES” advert as you go in the door.

    http://www.starbucks.co.uk/

    Everyone is trying to join us.

  167. alexicon says:

    Lesley-Anne says: That’s Ms Wiles alexicon, just a wee head’s up.

    I know it was Lesley Anne, I saw the photo. Double wink, wink.

    Btw If you’re interested Wilkinsons is doing a wonderful line in Saltire the now and I did notice the ‘works’ is doing smaller, good quality, Saltires at £1.
    Stock up folks and remember they’re just a sacrifice for the big day.
    Lampposts etc.

  168. Democracy Reborn says:

    Wiles’s tweet is beneath contempt.

    It’s also a gross insult to the tens of thousands of Yes voters, whether or not they read Wings, who lost relatives fighting the Nazis as members of the BRITISH armed forces.

    But since we’re on the Nazi theme, let’s be blunt about it : I have always found Labour’s ‘One Nation’ slogan somewhat distasteful for a variety of reasons. For one thing, it bears too much of a resemblance to a slogan used by a certain political party in Germany between 1933-45 : “Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer.” If the SNP were to use ‘One Nation’ as a slogan, you can bet your bottom dollar the unionists would be going ballistic about ‘ethnic, blood & soil’ nationalism.

  169. Defo says:

    My bad. Godwins was No12, Judges ruled that Joanne McFadden won, with her implication prompt shot “what was that other youth movement?” even though it rebounded off Kathy to score.
    Well done Joanne.

  170. john king says:

    Well said Thepnr
    I told her on twitter her behaviour is beyond the pale, and while she may hide behind a tame media, she has shown herself for what she is and her actions WILL come back to haunt her we’ll make SURE of that.

  171. Tam Jardine says:

    Mary Bruce

    Agreed. They are immune until the 19th September but they are gambling everything on a No vote. And the reality is that a No vote will whitewash these sins forever even though they will not be forgotten. History is written by the victors and there will be no comfort in bringing up transgressions after the 18th in that case.

    I feel sorrow for the real debate on our country’s future the No side have missed out on. It’s No at all costs. A blind No. A No and he’ll mend ye. I have people close to me who will vote No regardless of anything I or anyone says. I feel they have been let down and can’t bring myself to be happy with the manner the No camp are losing the argument.

    It just seems to me that the more the No camp try to engage in the actual issues rather than abusing Yes supporters, the more tenuous their position appears.

    I enjoyed Taranaich ‘ s post immensely but have to admit, with my 2 young kids traipsing round Edinburgh, the Yes game where we win points when we see a Yes and lose them if we see a No is a little closer to brainwashing!

  172. Defo says:

    “How will the ‘Daily Record’ report it and how will their readers react?”

    Didgerydon’t ?

    Q is, does the sex offenders Broadcasting Corporation ‘Know what it is yet’?

  173. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks caz, we both so want to be there. 🙂

    1,000 apologies alexicon. I can give out cynicism in bucket loads but am incapable of recognising it in print. 😛

  174. Mary Bruce says:

    Someone on twitter posted Wiles tweet alongside a letter to the local press she wrote complaining about the conduct of an SNP councillor. What a hypocrite, LOL. (thanks Mr Pyper)

    https://twitter.com/astuartpyper/status/483719794987134977

  175. Defo says:

    Sos Free at 63, forgot to credit you.

  176. Lesley-Anne says:

    First thing out of Forsyth’s mouth is a LIE!

    300 years ago Scotland was NOT bankrupt, it has NEVER been bankrupt. It was his sort, the politicians and land owners who were close to bankrupt!

  177. Nazi (Swastika?) Graffitti appeared on Angus SNP Office. Interesting in light of the Labour comments and posts. Rather horrific really.

  178. Paula Rose says:

    As we have lots of young scots being sensible – is it not time for older folk to moderate their language and rise again?

  179. Robert Graham says:

    oh i forgot what i wanted to say because the queue to get on was murder and being close to pension age i had a senior moment anyway its because of this strange we don’t debate just toss crap in the the direction of “YES” and knowing for sure all their little mistakes like calling all the “YES” suporters nazies who brainwash and neglect innocent kids will never see the light of day be covered up just as a lot of stuff the labour party controlled councils have been doing for years that lot are past masters at it

  180. Lesley-Anne says:

    Second thing out of Forsyth’s mouth is a LIE!

    Independent Scotland is NOT dependent on North Sea oil.

  181. Taranaich says:

    Thanks all, that cheered me (and my family member) up a lot! Also cheering me up, my mum’s just back in from canvassing – I normally join in, but I’ve had a horrible attack of the hayfever. She met a wee boy – 10 or 11 – who was delighted to tell us that he won his school debate, and that he was so pleased to see them out campaigning! My mum apologised for not being an important person, just ordinary, and he was more than delighted to meet actual grassroots people, which showed that he really knew what was all going on in Scotland. It made us feel very excited too, after all, the children will inherit the Scotland we wish for.

  182. cynicalHighlander says:

    Christ one refreshes and another avalanche of posts appear.LoL

    @Free at 63! says:

    Leaving aside the indyref. Just look at the news headlines, from London in particular.

    Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, not to mention the vile Jimmy Savile, found guilty of sexual abuse of minors.

    And all with one common link!

  183. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oh look it’s another LIE from Forsyth.

    In order to keep free education we’d have to cut numbers at university. BOLLOCKS! Oh and don’t forget we’d have to give free education to everyone in Europe. erm don’t we already do that?

    Nice to see Jim ripping one of Campbell for interupting him.:P

  184. SheepOnFire says:

    Glasgow’s STV did not cover BannockBurnLive on their Saturday News, and their Sundays News was replaced with footballer millionaires kicking a soccer ball about in Brasil.

    Glasgow’s STV News did not cover yesterday’s BBC Bias Pacific Quay demo.

    STV did not cover BannockBurn Live and BBC Bias Protest.

    STV now seems to a London operation/oganisation.
    STV is not covering Scottish cultural events, or Scottish demonstrations.

    I think STV have caught the BBC bias bug.
    They may be nobbled. They need watching.

    STV needs to be open and democratic.
    YES clock is ticking.

    BBC won’t/can’t change, its controlled directly from Home Office. Only way we have to sort out BBC Scotland is vote YES.

    STV relies on paying sponsors.
    I noted STV News sponsors on Saturday:

    STV News – Sat 18:30pm
    Thompson Holidays
    Trivago
    TENA
    DFS
    Clydesdale Bank
    Sterling Furniture
    Sainsburys

    I’m going to contact each with my concerns.
    I believe Wings has 800k following, and 1.7million in total.
    We are their customers.

    ps. In contact with BBC Bias demo organisers through Facebook, maybe see what they can do about STV ignoring Scotland’s issues and events.

  185. Indigo says:

    Jim is excellent!

  186. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well there’s a surprise…NOT!

    What currency will we use in an independent country?” DOH!

    Good old Forsyth Salmond can’t say what currency we’d use. What universe has he been beamed in from?

  187. sausage fingered luddite says:

    I am sure I read that some guy from Renfrew was up in court in Haddington earlier today after making threatening / abusive posts about Salmond? I’m sure this was on bbcscotland website this morning? cant find anything now or on usual newspaper sites.

    Can anyone help – the details are a bit vivid for me to have dreamt it?

  188. Lesley-Anne says:

    Indigo says:

    Jim is excellent!

    I agree. He’s already ripped a strip off of Glenn Campbell and is making Forsyth look the complete and incompetent Muppet we all know he is. 😛

  189. Juan P says:

    @Mary Bruce

    Saw the Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy (CIPFA) report and thought it seemed, on balance, to be good news for Yes.

    Note though that the BBC decide to lead with the header of:

    “Scottish independence: Finance body warns on referendum information”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28090352

    Might be worth contacting CIPFA and asking them if they intended the report as a warning and if not have the BBC, god forbid eh, misrepresented the purpose of the report.

  190. Lesley-Anne says:

    That’s it Forsyth keep telling the LIE that we’d have to join the Euro. Hmm…I wonder when Sweden joined the Euro after all they have been in the E.U. for over 16 years.

  191. Papadox says:

    Bet Forsyth’s ancestors took the English “blood money” and stabbed Alba and it’s people in the back, he’s a weasel. Baron Forsythe of drumlean PC kt.

  192. cynicalHighlander says:

    That is why the SNP need to side step these debates and let non political Yessers take the lead roles as it removes there only weapon attack SNP.

  193. DaveDee says:

    sausage fingered luddite

    buried deep on BBC Site

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-28066266

  194. alexicon says:

    @sausage fingered luddite.

    No you didn’t dream it.

    Steven Thomson, from Renfrew, was bailed after being charged with threatening or abusive behaviour.

    From the retard, I won’t post a link.

  195. Lesley-Anne says:

    Oh dearie me someone in the audience wants to vote NO because we get the best deal from the CAP. Hmm think someone should remind her about what happened to the CAP payment intended for Scottish farmers this year.

    Hang on Forsyth, you start by going on about Alex Salmond and his arc of prosperity but focuses on Greece and Portugal. WTF?

  196. R whittington says:

    Got to feel sorry for Algeria.

  197. cynicalHighlander says:

    Kathy has form attacking the SNP.

    https://twitter.com/astuartpyper/status/483709821955612673/photo/1

  198. Defo says:

    Just posted on aunties story, Paterson pushing neat Haggis on the yanks.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-28070716

    “Flipper “So something tangible at last to show as the Union dividend Owen ?”
    Paterson “The Hagii are quaking in the glens Alisdair !”

    Meanwhile.. The delectable Kathy Wiles, SLabs new troughee candidate for Angus is likening a picture of kids at the Pacific Quay demo yesterday, with the Hitler youth. Nice.”

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/smear-em-young/comment-page-1/#comment-1668695

  199. Les Wilson says:

    BBC 2014 Glen Campbell constantly interrupting Jim Sillers and letting Forsyth ramble on. Same old Same old.

  200. Free at 63! says:

    I would never get to sleep if I watched
    at this time of night – will catch it on iplayer tomorrow.

    Forsyth did bring us back our ‘Stone’ on 30th November 1996 complete with kilt!

    I remember when I saw the announcement in ‘The Glasgow Herald’ on 5th July 1996 – I was on a cruiser at Fort Augustus – and I knew then that we would win independence much to the amusement of my late husband and my children.

    It was symbolic.

  201. sausage fingered luddite says:

    DaveDee & alexicon – cheers for delaying my madness!

  202. Truth says:

    See that HM Government pap that came through the door the other day. Was that no covered in weans?

    Were they Hitler’s weans as well Kathy?

    Or is it just oor weans that are Hitler’s weans?

  203. Lesley-Anne says:

    Les Wilson says:

    BBC 2014 Glen Campbell constantly interrupting Jim Sillers and letting Forsyth ramble on. Same old Same old.

    You’ve noticed that as well. 😉

    Thing is though Jim is still giving as good as he gets he’s even tore a strip off Campbell for interrupting him. Gawn yersel Jim. 😛

  204. Thepnr says:

    Lesley-Anne

    You know more than even Sillars. Why is that possible? LOL

  205. jonGZ says:

    Mary… great, thanks!

  206. Thepnr says:

    And did you get my email yet?

  207. R whittington says:

    COME ON ALGERIA!!!!!!!!!!’

  208. Free at 63! says:

    Should add to that: he was Maggie’s henchman trying to win an election for Major. That worked?

  209. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thepnr says:

    Lesley-Anne

    You know more than even Sillars. Why is that possible? LOL

    Well the answers just pure dead simple…I’m just pure dead BRILLIANT! 😛

    I mentioned to Mark about your e-mail address Thepnr but he didn’t know it. The only e-mail he had was a contact for someone at YES Dumfries.

  210. Thepnr says:

    It’s cos like me you have been reading Wings for a while, I’m brilliant too because of what I have learned here.

    Mark has it from about 6 O Clock tonight, maybe he will send it on when he next reads his email.

  211. R whittington says:

    Algerian left-back Faouzi Ghoulam has been the best player of either side so far. Algeria don’t deserve to lose this.

  212. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thepnr says:

    It’s cos like me you have been reading Wings for a while, I’m brilliant too because of what I have learned here.

    Mark has it from about 6 O Clock tonight, maybe he will send it on when he next reads his email.

    Do you have the e-mail of goldenayr by any chance?
    I’m only asking cause he and I have e-mailed each other in the past.

  213. mr thms says:

    Reporting Scotland dropped this item from their late evening news..

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-30/scotland-has-billions-of-barrels-of-shale-deposits-report-says.html

    “Scotland Holds Billions of Barrels of Shale Oil, Report Says”

    This is how their own website reported the same story..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28085418

    “Scotland ‘has modest reserves’ of shale gas and oil”

  214. Thepnr says:

    Send one here Thepnr [at] mailinator [dot] com than I can get back to you. Paula Rose’s idea!

  215. kininvie says:

    I think the lesson I draw from this unseemly spat is ‘Twitter is not your friend’ If you look at the sequence of tweets above, each tempts the next user to go a wee bit further with the innuendo, until Cathy can’t resist the final picture.

    Of course all this is meat and drink to the dark tacticians of the No Campaign. They don’t care about the fate of individual useful idiots. The purpose is to demonise WoS, and if a stream of somewhat naive individuals help to embed the thought that Wings is an extremist, facist site, so much the better.

    It’s interesting if you look at the timelines of the individuals concerned, they are considering themselves as the ones being demonised. I’d argue that none of us ‘amateurs’ on either side gain anything much from this kind of antagonism , but the professional propagandists in No campaign will be laughing all the way to the bank…

  216. Robert Graham says:

    oh well i guess this reconciliation service thats been called for after the referendum is oot the windae then if it does indeed go ahead i am not sure edinburgh could cope with the amount of requests for ambulances that will be required either way a “YES” win they will be needed to console the broken hearted labour MPs who will just have been made homeless and will be inconsolable and unable to walk and talk at the same time, a “NO” win will release the pent up anger of the cheated people who will just say oh well we tried REALLY AYE RIGHT if this lot think we are going to go back in some bloody box and not cause a fuss i can see bloody mayhem and no amount of reconciliation will be able to stop because then we have nothing to lose they think the people who have been robbed will stand meekly by and let the tory cuts go ahead

  217. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thepnr says:

    Send one here Thepnr [at] mailinator [dot] com than I can get back to you. Paula Rose’s idea!

    Oh Oh! If Paula suggested I’m thinking we’ve a pair of naughty wee children then. 😛

    Thepnr says:

    It’s cos like me you have been reading Wings for a while, I’m brilliant too because of what I have learned here.

    Aye it’s been a while. I think I start picking up my Wings pension next year. 😉

  218. YESGUY says:

    I might piss a few folk off but hell .. tough.

    Jim Sillers is “supposed” to be arguing for independence but less than 5 minutes go by and HE’S telling all he doesn’t agree with Mr Salmond. Then every time the scares fro Lord Snooty he ignores and puts HIS personal view over.

    If i had to get someone to talk on my behalf i would NEVER ask Jim . He’s a dinosaur and agreed to much with Lord snooty on currency and EU and between them the kids looked bored. He was supposed to get the message that Scotland can and only got the “i don’t agree with Alex Salmond” lines.

    He is a bloody joke. and they kids learned NOTHING.

    As for Forsyth . what would you expect . At least he is consistent.

    Why didn’t YES Scotland not put forward someone who can argue for independence . After watching Sillers i would be tempted to vote NO. He is the example of divide and conquer. And he’s on our side ????

    Time he retired.

  219. Mary Bruce says:

    @Juan P, yes I saw that BBC headline. At first I was amazed that the BBC were reporting the story at all, after all it was good news for yes.

    But you have to give these spin guys credit, tho, it was pretty impressive how they manipulated the story completely, presented it as a “Threat” and buried the important bit way down a rather dense article where it would only be found accidentally by a few committed readers.

    The BBC is impartial my arse. If that were good news for no it would have been no 1 item on 6pm news.

  220. caz-m says:

    Lesley-Anne

    That last question seemed very planted. The old chestnut about hating the English.

    Forsyth and Campbell, what a double act.

    If I had met Campbell yesterday he would have ended up in the Clyde. He is one horrible human being.

    I hope that debate encourages more people to turn up on the 27th July.

  221. kendomacaroonbar says:

    I was hacked off that the last young questioner managed to state that the SNP seems to bring out anti english sentiment online and Jim didn’t contest the statement.

  222. R whittington says:

    Got the goal at least. Well deserved.

  223. Thepnr says:

    @kininvie

    Of course there would be an attempt to discredit Wings Over Scotland and it’s writer Rev Stuart Campbell.

    Not only the site and it’s starter but all of us who post here. I have to disagree that “the professional propagandists in No campaign will be laughing all the way to the bank…”

    I just don’t see it that way, stop by tonight on BritnatAbuse.Bot I did last night, if your looking for vile you’ve come to the right place if you view any of their profiles.

    I tend to agree with Morag earlier she said 99% of activists don’t know of the demonisation of Wings never mind ordinary folk. I’m paraphrasing but the gist is right.

    What is really interesting is that they will not dare print a stream of posts from this site? Why would that be?

    Maybe not as demonic as is made out.

  224. Robert Peffers says:

    Let us calm down folks, When NO campaigners, of all shades of political colour, use such intemperate insults it is great news for Scottish Independence.

    It shows they have thrown in the towel. Run out of ideas, are acting from sheer blind panic and desperation. You can never win a debate by illogical argumentum ad hominem.

    They know the game is up, the goose is well overcooked and they are on the side that lost the referendum.

  225. Lesley-Anne says:

    To be honest YESGUY I think, for what it’s worth, that he is doing the right thing. Now hang on there, don’t go blowing a fuse on me just yet. Let me try and, sort of, explain in my own inimitable way. 😉

    As we all know the YES campaign is made up of people from every colour of the political spectrum which means we have our own views on what we want for an independent Scotland. The problem, as I see it, is that the impression being given out, mainly via MSM, is that NO stands for, in effect, status quo whilst YES stands for something different.

    What I think Jim does is show those in the audience that you do NOT have to support everything Alex Salmond says in order to vote YES. I believe by him coming out and saying I think A.S. is wrong in joining E.U. I’d rather we joined EFTA, for example, he is showing you CAN have differing views on independence but that does not stop you voting YES in September.

    The bottom line is that by Jim saying what he says it opens the minds of undecided voters, in my view, to the possibility that there are a lot MORE options available to me in an independent Scotland than there will ever be in the status quo.

    What you have to remember is that Better Together can not afford to have anyone on their side come out and say ANYTHING other than what the party line is.

    Thepnr, I’ve sent an e-mail. You may or may not receive it! 😛

  226. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    To any naysayers out there who are up to their usual trick of comparing the yessers to Nazis, consider this, some of us KNOW people who were Hitlerjugend…(check the surname…it sure ain’t auf Schottland)Some of us have FAMILY who were Hitlerjugend. If some of us did our homework, we would know that ALL youth movements were DISSOLVED in Germany and Austria, and the only organisation left which everyone was expected to join was the Hitler Youth. That doesn’t mean that THEY were in favour of the NSDAP, but let’s not let facts get in the way of a good bit of misrepresentation. They have NO ARGUMENT, so all they CAN do is try to represent us as either some sort of bogeyman who consistently abuses them online, and bullies them in debates, (current tactics), or they simply claim that we represent that which we do not… SOmeone is strainin’ to do some explainin’.

  227. R whittington says:

    Gordon Strachan talking sense as usual.

  228. HandandShrimp says:

    Robert

    I absolutely agree. There is a real stridency about the No camp these days. There still is the odd spasm from Project Fear but most of their stuff these days seems to highly personalised attacks. I think the reason that they made such a song and dance over alleged abuse of No supporters is that they wanted to justify a specific strategy of negative smears and abuse. It is very like the final stages of the Republican attacks on Obama.

    Thing is, that was a crap strategy that failed.

  229. Lesley-Anne says:

    caz-m says:

    Lesley-Anne

    That last question seemed very planted. The old chestnut about hating the English.

    Forsyth and Campbell, what a double act.

    If I had met Campbell yesterday he would have ended up in the Clyde. He is one horrible human being.

    I hope that debate encourages more people to turn up on the 27th July.

    I agree caz, good old BBC setting the planted questions!

    Ah the good old Campbell and Forsyth double act, I remember it so well from the old Vaudeville days! 😛

    As far as Campbell is concerned he is an oaf and a UNIONIST oaf at that!

    Nice to see the two newspaper reveiwers on Sky talking a load of pish about a Times poll on independence! BORING!

  230. Sheenamac says:

    I would happily taken similar pictures of my children when they were young, as a record. I am sure they will be delighted in the future to have photographs of their participation in historical events. Many people were taking pictures of family and friends. There was no aggression, only some anger amongst the adults of the bias at the state broadcaster, which should be neutral, not following the political agenda of Westminster. Their sinister interpretation is a sad reflection of the BT member’s attitude+. The Labour party have in the past taken part in demonstrations against trident, injustice and the exploitation of the vulnerable. Why are they behaving this way towards demonstrations against state bias? What has happened to them?

  231. R whittington says:

    That’s a point. Does anyone know Gordon Strachan’s views on independence? I think I might vote the same way as him.

  232. Doug Mcgregor says:

    You know it’s biased because Naw never complains about bias.

  233. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    “30 June, 2014 at 11:07 pm
    Truth says:
    See that HM Government pap that came through the door the other day. Was that no covered in weans?”

    See my post of tonight at:-

    http://dundee3js.freeforums.org/post6144.html#p6144

  234. tartanarse says:

    Dear Dick, Have you some allegiance to Algeria or a hatred of Germany?

    I don’t get it.

  235. R whittington says:

    Neither. I just thought Algeria deserved to win that one. Especially as they played so well in the first half. Germany vs France will be good though.

  236. caz-m says:

    Scottish_skier

    Yougov’s latest poll from the Times, has YES 39% NO 54%.

    YES down 3%, they have got to be joking, WTF is that poll all about?

  237. Defo says:

    Q. Who would win in a onanist contest, between Dead Hand Ed v’s The Clinking Fist ? Or, am I completely off track in suggesting Ed numbs up pre shank ?

  238. Yesitis says:

    New Times YouGov poll: 39% Yes 61% No
    Without Don`t Knows: 35% Yes 54% No

    That`s YouGov for you, and pretty much all the way to referendum day with a big lead for No.

  239. Capella says:

    Lorna and the other parents who took their children along to the PQ demo deserve all the support of the YES campaign. Educating children about freedom of speech, thought and assembly is the most precious asset against the anti-democratic forces of suppression which the Kathy Wiles of this world represent.
    The opposite of democracy is fascism.
    Well done Lorna, the young camera woman, little Gabe and all the others who demonstrated what freedom of speech is all about.

  240. kininvie says:

    @Thepnr

    BritNatAbuseBot is full of the kind of people you hope you never run into on a Friday night. Their influence is minimal.

    What I was suggesting was that the sustained campaign to give Wings a doin’ is a wee bit more subtle.

    It consists of dropping vocabulary into the Twitter Stream, which is then taken up and amplified by No voters. We react, naturally, which confirms said voters in their opinions, so they amplify the vocabulary further.

    You’ll note the appearance of ‘extreme’. Now what is that word currently commonly associated with in the pages of the DM & friends? Extremist jihadists, that’s what….and so the link is made – not explicitly, but implicitly.

    Stu’s counter attack is simple and stated. The more folk that come to Wings to be outraged and find it rather different from what they had been led to believe, the better. But it is up to us to ensure it stays different from what they had been led to believe.

  241. caz-m says:

    The Times poll must have come directly from Westminster Central Command. I think we are in for a dambuster moment.

    It’s the only time you hear about anything Scottish on Sky News, when it’s bad news.

  242. Edward says:

    Slightly O/T – Just noticed the Newspaper headlines on Sky’s website.

    The Times headline caught my eye
    ‘Voters turn away from Scottish nation state’
    Apparently YouGov conducted a poll which shows support has dropped to 39% for Yes

    First part of the article states “Voters are turning their backs on the bid for Scottish independence, according to a dramatic new poll that threatens to leave Alex Salmond’s hopes in tatters. Support for a “yes” vote in September’s referendum is falling away and now stands at just 39 per cent — down three points since March — in the poll by YouGov for The Times. One expert said that it left Scotland’s first minister in need of a “gamechanger”. However, it is the question of whether Scots think they will be better or worse off under independence which is seen as vital to how they will vote on September 18. According to the poll, only 27 per cent think that the country would be better off, down three points since March, while 49 per cent think that it would be worse off, up four points. Forty three per cent think that they personally will be financially worse off if Scotland”

    The rest of the bilge is behind a paywall

  243. BuckieBraes says:

    @Lesley-Anne
    I agree with your appraisal of Jim Sillars in the ‘young people’s’ debate. He provided a valuable reminder that this referendum is about something much bigger than Alex Salmond or the SNP. However, Michael Forsyth was brilliantly ‘off-message’ for the No side. I don’t like the man or his views, but came away from watching with a strange sense of admiration.

    Forsyth is a Tory and straight-up unionist, who argued his points from that perspective. He thinks the UK is terrific and has never had any time for devolution. The Labourites fronting ‘Better Together’ are actually no different, but they pretend to be. Instead of an honest defence of the union, we get all this ‘best of both worlds’ obfuscation from Alistair Darling.

    I have never voted Tory in my life (and I’m certain I won’t in the future), but I actually have more time for the relative honesty of Forsyth than for the hypocrisy and duplicity of the Labour party.

  244. Roll_On_2014 says:

    joe kane: 7.23pm

    Police state what Police State.

  245. YESGUY says:

    Lesley Anne,

    I get what you are saying but i don’t agree.

    Every time i hear Jim talk he always mentions A.Salmond and ALWAYS disagrees with his points. Too much of an agenda i think.
    But he pointed out question on the ballot paper then let Lord Snooty away with lies . Whats the point of debate if you don’t argue the points ?? Jim did not do that he allowed LF to lie to young kids and did himself no favors with his answers. He agreed with lord snooty TWICE.

    Lesley Anne, i had huge respect for the man but it’s lost. We are talking tonight of educating our kids and he , Jim ,allowed LF to peddle scares. Nothing but scares look at it again. The young who are voting are asking for advise and facts did Jim offer any where to look????

    Did he point out that we are ALREADY members of the EU and there is NO mechanism to put us out?? Greenland tried to get out and they say they are out but the mechanism is not there and Greenland can change it’s mind and guess what – they would be told they are already in the EU.

    Why didn’t he explain that the parties offering powers to Scotland cannot guarantee anything cos they haven’t won their election yet. And what powers . Why not tell the kids where the info was on the powers?

    He allowed LF to lie and scare , no rebuke how can that be good for them??

    This is not the first time he’s done this and now when i see him i wish to god he would keep his mouth shut.He’s stuck in the 70’s and way out of touch . I’m sorry but we need all the help we can get and Jim Sillers is for Jim Sillers.

    I understand we all have views but he pointed out what the debate was about ” Should Scotland be an independent country” . Lets get over the line first before we think of whats going to happen after, The UK Govt are NOT going to give us facts till then , Why not tell the kids that?

  246. bookie from hell says:

    Houston we have a problem

    Kathy?kathy?

  247. Capella says:

    Never get disheartened about poll scares. Check it out with Scot Goes Pop for a breakdown of the figures and more balanced view of what they indicate
    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/

  248. Lesley-Anne says:

    I agree YESGUY I’d love to see Jim tear strips off Forsyth in a head to head debate but the BBC had cleverly designed it so that it wasn’t. This was more of A q & A type of programme. I’m pretty certain that had Jim tried to pull Forsyth up on every lie he said Campbell would have been forever jumping in and cutting Jim off. I think that sometimes you just have to look outside what is actually being broadcast in these situations.

    I’m quite certain that had this been a normal debating situation Jim Sillars would have torn so many strips off of Forsyth there would have been nothing left of him. Unfortunately the BBC made sure that this was not a normal debate and as such made sure Forsyth could get his lies out there un questioned.

  249. Thepnr says:

    Jim Sillars is mediocre, not his fault he’s getting on a bit and I doubt I could do much better. I agree to and extent with both Lesley-Anne and YESGUY. He is quite right to point out that the referendum is not about Alex Salmond and their are plenty with a different view.

    He does fail though at times to pull up his opponents or make a better point. Where are the young guns? That’s what I want to know. We really need to see more of the younger supporters of Yes but they must know their stuff or it will be pointless.

    By the way I agree with most views about the last question in the debate, dubious at best, plant most likely. Can’t help themselves, the anti-democracy propaganda party.

  250. tartanarse says:

    Sour grapes Sillars. Get over it man.

    We’ll all vote yes, then you can have yer moan. It’s like watching your team mate tell the ref yer mate deserved a yellow card, but worse.

    When Scotland votes yes no ones going to listen to your greetin anyway.

  251. Walking on Sunshine says:

    Labour in Scotland cannot sink any lower.
    They are now wallowing around in the sewers.
    Disgusting.
    Utterly appalling.
    The quicker we get independence and move on the better.
    Expecting the riot act from Lamont first thing in the morning.
    If pigs could fly.

  252. Defo says:

    From the Haggis front, on auntie.
    Gem after gem.

    “426.thrill_vermilion
    5 Minutes ago
    It’s a shame they don’t extend the ban to Scotland. Haggis is a vile, disgusting thing. Sometimes I wonder if certain human beings ever really evolved.”

    Meow one L

    “425.AliBenSawali
    6 Minutes ago
    At least if the Scots vote for independence we’ll be able to stop defending pathetic dishes such as this. Your dog would turn it’s nose up at haggis.”

    Classic Ali.

    419.Not a clue
    30th June 2014 – 22:56
    UK government bids to overturn US haggis ban.
    =============

    Should UK not wait until after any Scottish Independence referendum?

    The English Welsh and Irish tax payer should not foot this expense unless Scotland is amicable and in agreement with continued partnership.”

    Not a clue indeed. ‘dence, even.

  253. Thepnr says:

    Taking the piss does them no favours. Fucking arseholes. Ok letting them wind me up does no favours either. Push too far and people start pushing back.

    I’m pushing back.

  254. tartanarse says:

    Haggis is nicer than black pudding. I’m fairly sure that bp is eaten all over the uk.

    Perhaps they can explain why haggis is more manky than bp.

    I like both btw but then I am a heathen.

    This story is simply about trivialising Scotland with its daft wee food.

    Fancy having national dishes eh?

  255. Liquid Lenny says:

    Oh no ITN News says that Scots are backing away from Independence, we are all doomed I tell yae…

  256. Lesley-Anne says:

    Liquid Lenny says:

    Oh no ITN News says that Scots are backing away from Independence, we are all doomed I tell yae…

    Well if we are all doomed as they love to keep telling us then that can mean only one thing…WE are winning and they are feart senseless! 😛

  257. tartanarse says:

    I liked it when Scots backed away from devolution then backed away from voting SNP then practically reversed at full speed away from voting, with a majority, for a party who’s aim was to secure a referendum, which quite rightly are now backing away from.

    If we didn’t have these polls telling us to vote naw, I’m not sure how Scotland would be able to make it’s mind up.

    Thank heavens for the informative media. Cheers guys.

  258. tartanarse says:

    Bloody addictive site. I’ve to be up at dawn. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  259. Thepnr says:

    I’ve conducted my own poll of 4 participants Yes 100% No% 0 Undecided 0%.

    There polls are shite and that’s why I’m laughing. Did you the result of canvassing today in Aberdeen, that is much more like it. Off the top of my head:

    Yes 40%
    No 17%
    Undecided 33%

    That is much more real to me from chapping on doors rather than take people who have actually signed up to these polling companies.

    The polls are way wrong even panalbase, this is a referendum not an election. We need our own exit poll to check for any bullshit on 18th Sept. Would be easy for Wings to organise a massive exit poll. We should do it Rev.

  260. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’m just thinking that we should really all be entirely grateful to the BBC and MSM for their never ending purulence of the TRUTH about Scottish independence. 😉 Without all their hard work I can only assume that come the 19th September I’d be one of those clueless idiots who’d be walking into the polling booths and voting YES. 🙂 Thank you BBC. Thank MSM for doing your utmost to ensure I knew what I was voting for and informing me which way I should vote! 😛

  261. YESGUY says:

    Lesley Anne.

    OK

    We can agree to disagree . Your comments are always spot on and i often wish i could get things over like you and a few others do. And idon’t think Jim is worth the hassle. I get annoyed when i see YES voters agreeing or ignoring the lies the BT spout.

    These where young kids having their first vote and it would have been nice if Jim had gave them somewhere to look.They spend almost all their life staring at their iphones. All they need is direction.
    I am a father to two sons , now in their late twenties and i always made sure my boys knew where to look for advice . I don’t know all the answers and i believe that they should get the facts before deciding anything.
    The BT/NT/UKOK don’t give facts and i seeth when older folk lie to the young. We all have duty of care to all these young folk. If you gloss over the lies the truth will always be tainted .

    Kids are smarter than we were at that age. More technically minded and programmed to use the internet for almost every thing.

    The debate was too old codgers out of touch and i doubt they learned much sadly.

    That was the point Lesley Anne . To get answers out to them in a way THEY could understand. i feel they failed.

    But its over now and i will try to look forward and not backwards.

  262. Gary says:

    They are growing ever more confident in their smears. They feel untouchable and yet blame ‘Cybernats’ for the abuse. I was at the protest which was as peaceful as a church social, folk from 8 to 80 in attendance and absolutely NO bad behaviour. BBC staff were able to, and did, walk through the crowd unmolested. All we ask is for truth and balance, nothing more.

  263. X_Sticks says:

    Thepnr says:

    “Where are the young guns?”

    Aye Thepnr, Sillars and Forsyth for such a young audience? Are bbc trying to put folk off the debate?. Oh, wait..

    Why not Alan Bissett or Robin MacAlpine? Then again, who on the No side could (or would) take either of them on?

    Good posts folks, not much I can add.

    That you suffering from that slip of the finger again Lesley-Anne? Tsk!

    Aye, and what Taranaich said, too.

    I really enjoyed the poem about youth by the guy who’s name I can’t remember at the bbc yesterday. I’ll need to go and watch it again on IndyLive.

    Lorna and Jacqui – smashing kids you have there. I am shocked by the nastiness of the No supporters. Atrocious behaviour.

  264. MJarga says:

    Don’t these people realise that Independence is the new normal, society has moved on and they have been left behind.

    In that context, even small children taking an interest in what’s going on around them can only be positive.

    Surely homes where parents don’t talk to their children about issues that affect them are failing to prepare them for life but are also failing society by encouraging non-engagement, starting at home.

    Although one suspects faux outrage is the real story here.

  265. Lesley-Anne says:

    YESGUY say:

    We can agree to disagree . Your comments are always spot on and i often wish i could get things over like you and a few others do. And idon’t think Jim is worth the hassle. I get annoyed when i see YES voters agreeing or ignoring the lies the BT spout.

    Careful there YESGUY. When folks make comments like that my head tends to grow rather huge when it reads things like that. 😛

    I’m grateful for your comments about my comments. I do wonder sometimes if I’ve gone too far sometimes or not far enough. I also worry about being able to put down in words what I’m actually thinking. I do understand your frustration and I do at times get rather hot under the collar, just ask my partner 😛 . The problem as I see it is that the idea of any Q & A programme or “alleged” debate is, in my view, a unionist ploy. Every one I’ve seen so far has had what I can only call a unionist in charge of the events. This means that no matter what the unionist on the panel goes unquestioned. If the YES side try and do so it’s suddenly a case of “oh look we’re out of time, let’s move on to the next question”

    In my opinion the only way to get a more balanced view of YES versus NO is to attend any debates that are NOT held at Pacific Quay. Yes I know they are pretty much non existent but hey who knows B.T. might yet find a back bone! 😛

    The only other suggestion I can possibly give is for your sons to attend any local meeting for undecideds. I know these are usually YES orientated but that is not their fault. You can not force NO to attend if they are too feart to turn up now can you. 😉

  266. Lesley-Anne says:

    X_Sticks says:

    That you suffering from that slip of the finger again Lesley-Anne? Tsk!

    I’m afraid so X_Sticks. Unfortunately I’ve run out of my meds and can’t get any more till Friday. 😛

  267. thoughtsofascot says:

    @handandshrimp

    I absolutely agree. There is a real stridency about the No camp these days. There still is the odd spasm from Project Fear but most of their stuff these days seems to highly personalised attacks. I think the reason that they made such a song and dance over alleged abuse of No supporters is that they wanted to justify a specific strategy of negative smears and abuse. It is very like the final stages of the Republican attacks on Obama.

    I’ve noticed that too. this is playing out in an almost identical manner to the way the Tea Party conducted themselves in the last US election. Idiocy all around.

  268. thoughtsofascot says:

    From the No side, to clarify.

    I’m wondering if they’ve got teabaggers on hand as their secret campaign advisors

  269. Thomas Valentine says:

    This is all making me a bit sick.
    On top of that a friend suggested that the Inland Revenue is paying special attention to people for the next few months. Though I can’t see how that is meant to help the UK government unless they are going to try to panic people. Its an indiscriminate tactic that hurts their own supporters probably more.

  270. geeo says:

    Good grief, by the time i have read all the comments i have forgotten what i was going to post !!!!

    Emmmm….vote Yes ?

    Kidding obviously…
    Watching that 2014 debate tonight, there was an obvious difference between the pair of them talking.
    Quite subtle at times or driven by my obvious dislike of Forsyth, you tell me.

    Whether or not you like Jim Sillers, what he did was he engaged the young audience in such a way they showed a respect for him doing so.

    Seriously, watch it again but watch the body language of the audience when JS spoke to them.

    Then you have Forsyth, preaching to them, every comment starting with “look…”then followed by a sermon or a campfire scarey story.

    Again watch the body language of the audience, it is almost audible, along the lines of, does this guy think we are stupid !!!

    It is the youngsters i feel for in this, the political adults (loose term) in the No camp are hardly inspiring political engagement in the new generation in this, their first chance to make a difference. That might bite BT in the bum in september.

    On a closer to home note, my 18 year old daughter watched it as she researched stuff for her 2nd year uni course
    (just finished her first year couple weeks ago).
    She was sickened by the way Forsyth spoke down to the young audience, and i quote ” if i was spoken down to like that i would vote for the other side automatically because, even not sure of the content of the other guy (JS) he is being respectful by talking to them as equals in front of him”.

    “I would never dream of talking to my class in such a patronising and condescending manner, it is simply ignorant and kids are not as stupid as some adults think they are”.

    My lass is set on her path to become a primary school teacher with focus on assisted learning.

    Said it better than i could.

  271. Patrician says:

    Well here goes, my bit about what happened yesterday, I am the ugly looking guy on the left (as you look at the picture) holding the wings banner, ronnie anderson is the cool guy on the right 🙂 more photos here: http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#0

    To give some background to what happened. We were originally at the back of the crowd with a small table with various stickers and campaign materials, closer to the Science centre than the BBC building. We had lots of visitors there to sign the other banner. After some time ronnie suggested taking the unsigned banner for a walk around the crowd. We moved about for a couple of minutes, people were smiling at the banner and we were getting some banter. I then said to ronnie lets take this up to the front steps for a couple of minutes to let everyone see the banner. (we were still there almost 2 hours later).

    When we got up the steps and opened the banner, it all went a bit mental. It looked like most of the crowd turned to start taking photographs. My wife couldn’t actually get through the crowd in front of us for about 5 minutes.

    The young kids in the picture above came over to us and posed in front of the banner. I didn’t see anyone coerce them or push them into place. It was a completely spontaneous event as there was no planning for this. Five minutes before we arrived no one knew we would be on the steps, not even myself or ronnie knew this. The kids were a credit to their parents and grand parents, all of them polite and well mannered. Lots of other people came up to get their photo taken under the terrible cybernats banner and also to meet the pandas. We also had so many messages of support and friendship.

    There are so many people out there that see this site as their only place to get the info for the converations they have day in and day out. I know the google numbers show the high numbers of visitors this site gets, but PQ2 and Yes in the Park a couple of weeks ago really gave me some idea of how important this site is. Rev, everyone asks after you so I think you need to get yourself up sometime soon.

    I would just like to say thank you to everyone I met yesterday, there were too many to mention and I have a terrible memory for names, you made it a truly brilliant day.

  272. Roll_On_2014 says:

    joe kane: 7.23pm

    Police state what Police State.

    The opening scenes in this Video are reminiscent of the miner’s strike some decades earlier when the police were politicised by Thatcher. Not surprisingly when in 2008 asked what her greatest achievement was and said in response: Tony Blair and the New Labour Party.

    Probably because by then Teflon Tony had police involvement enshrined in a variety of terrorist and a myriad of other anti people laws. Denying the people of the UK a number of their most basic human rights.

  273. Col says:

    I may be wrong but did anyone notice a bit of editing on the debate tonight? Seemed like Forsyth was laughing out loud at one point where he wasn`t in previous shot. I wasn`t paying complete attention at that point but I did think to myself did Jim`s answer or point to a question just get edited out. I`m most likely wrong, wasn`t paying complete attention at the time.

  274. lochside says:

    Couple of points:
    (1)Kathy Viles is a classic incarnation of what is totally wrong about Unionism in this country: a cowardly,stupid and ignorant fatheaded self-seeking sociopath, verbally abusing ordinary voters and worse.. their children, for having the audacity to call the bluff of the deceitful lying BBC.

    And as for the Hitler Youth slur…how stupid is this person? More importantly..how stupid is the Labour hierarchy that allows this misfit to megaphone her poison?

    (2)Jim Sillars wants to chuck it…too old, too bitter and unwilling to drop his anti AS bias in order to fight the cause against the likes of loathsome Forsyth.

    No doubt Jim’s ego compelled him to go on the show..but he should be replaced by somebody younger and able. No doubt the BBC chose him as suitable for Forsyth and Campbell to obfuscate.

  275. Kevin mcarthur says:

    Excuse me–whats on the front cover of the better together leaflet that they posted out?
    No children on there getting used ??? Confused dot com

  276. john king says:

    Tartanarse says
    “Bloody addictive site. I’ve to be up at dawn. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz”

    You must have been really quiet then, I never saw you! 🙂

  277. John Roland says:

    Kathy Viles,she was with Education for 15 years. Her tweets reflects she needs a further 15 years.

  278. YESGUY says:

    Agree Lochside

    maybe with a wee bit of luck it will be brought up in FMQ this week as the chance of it being on TV or any of the rags is pretty slim.

    Thing is they think they are justified when they call us Nazi’s and if this was said by even the most ignorant YES voter, we would never hear the end of it.
    Hypocrites the lot of them.

  279. Grendel says:

    Kathy Wiles saying that she did not intend to compare independence supporting kids to the Hitler Youth, while illustrating her original point with a picture of the Hitler Youth is just nonsensical!

  280. Grendel says:

    Why does Kathy Wiles think this way? I wrote this letter to my local paper, the Airdrie and Coatbridge Advertiser which was published last week. It’s from the top down:

    Dear Sir,

    Alistair Darlings Nazi smear attempt on Yes voters everywhere could almost be described as gutter politics, were it not for the fact that Better Together sank far below that level a long time ago. Sewer politics would be more apt. Reporting of his outburst may have gained a bit more traction had it not come in a good week to bury bad news, with the mainstream media focusing on Lallygate, when the BBC and the unionist media went into overdrive about the actions of some Yes supporters individuals comments. I have to ask myself if the world has gone stark, raving mad. Some keyboard warriors said some pretty despicable things, however we are talking about individual views here, not the views of Yes Scotland. Compare that with Alistair Darling’s leaked conversation where he states that the Scottish Independence movement is not based on civic nationalism, but he agrees with his interviewer that it is “Blood and Soil” nationalism, a phrase used by the Nazi party to describe their racially pure, aryan vision of Germany. Hardly applicable to the nationalism we have in Scotland. If you live here, you have a vote, regardless of race or ethnic origin. Mr Darling is not alone in his Nazi jibes though. Elaine Smith MSP has regularly thrown Nazi references in to her columns and letters, referring to fanatical nationalism and the lessons of history. In one of the worst quotes of all, in September 2013 the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland, Johan Lamont described nationalism as “a virus”, the very same term Hitler used to describe the Jews. Can these people sink any lower? To liken your political foes as to nothing more than a virus which must be wiped out is abhorrent, yet this is not the lone nutter in the bedroom speaking. This is the leader of Scottish Labour! If it’s not the Yes supporters themselves they are attacking its Alex Salmond. Each week I call full house on Better Together’s “Alex Salmond Dictator Bingo”. Mussolini, check. Hitler, check. Stalin, check. Kim Jung Un, bingo! Talk about playing the man, not the ball! Alex Salmond may be dead and buried in 10 years time, yet the unionists make out that a vote for independence is a vote for a Scotland ruled by him in perpetuity. What we have from Better Together is a top down campaign of hatred and bile. On September 18th, the people of Scotland will, for one day, have the power to decide the future of Scotland. Some of us will be able to look ourselves in the mirror afterwards and be proud of our actions. I do not think the Better Together leadership will fall into that category.

    Yours Sincerely,

    James Cassidy

  281. Robert Kerr says:

    @Grendel

    The fact that AS is childless, a jibe from Johan, means that he cannot be the founder of a dynasty post iScotland.

    I am amazed at the lack of logic from SLAB. Teachers and Educationists even!

    Your letter to the A and C Advertiser is very good. Well done

  282. David McCann says:

    Excellent vid of the BBC protest at Craig Murrays blog here.

    http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/06/bbc-bias-the-people-have-noticed/

  283. Haggis Hunter says:

    BBC will not be reporting on any of this, a spokesperson from BBC Better Together stated that because miss Wiles is a LabServative Naw and conformist to the Brit establishment, she is innocent of anything and everything and normal Naw reporting will continue

  284. Steve Quinn says:

    I have often debated with Kathy Wiles on BT and it has always been vile. Her sole purpose in life, it seems, is to denigrate everything to do with independence. It is of no surprise that she has done this with the aim of currying favour among her fellow no voters as she will shortly be a candidate for Angus soon.

    The comparison of these children to the Hitler youth movement is beyond the pale. It is an ignorant and vile thing to do. To compare Scottish children, proud enough to wear national dress, to such a fascist movement is an attack on every person who thinks themselves Scottish.

    I am appalled at her comment and believe that this should be reason alone that she never becomes involved in politics.

  285. Anthony Armstrong says:

    Surprised I haven’t heard anything of her resignation as a candidate.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28106688

  286. t00z says:

    Apologies if already detailed but Kathy Wiles twitter account is currently detailed as not existing. Who took it down can’t be confirmed but i don’t think we need Sherlock Holmes to investigate.

  287. Robert Bryce says:

    Kathy Wiles resignation speaks volumes and says more than any comment on here ever can.

    A disgrace of a person ironically consumed by bitter British nationalism.

  288. Robert Bryce says:

    Grendel,
    Your not the same James Cassidy from Airdrie who was with 124 Fld Sqn were you?

    If you are, how the devil are you?

  289. David Goodall says:

    An awful thing to say (and post). But might I ask what possessed Wings Over Scotland to use kids to carry their banner? Or are they all well-informed pro-yes campaigners? You might want to also get your own house in order – not good at all.

  290. dennis mclaughlin says:

    What this whole sorry tale talks us is that without access to an alternative media source such as this one, we would be like the proverbial cultured fungus…..

    Well done Stu for highlighting the depths to which Scottish Labour is plunging to in an effort to drag us all down with them…..Gotterdammerung is what the ancient German tribes called it.

  291. Grendel says:

    The very same Mr Cassidy, Robert!
    And of the two Robert Bryces in that Squadron, are you the Airdrieonian?

  292. The moral indignation at the use of children in campaigning by the No side is puzzling – that will be five adults running across the hillside on the cover of the HM Government booklet, then?

  293. steviecosmic says:

    And of course all the evidence is gone now that she has closed all her social media accounts. This must be Labour’s idea of damage limitation…Winston Smith stylee.

  294. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “But might I ask what possessed Wings Over Scotland to use kids to carry their banner?”

    We didn’t, and they didn’t.

  295. Blitzen Maniax says:

    It’s a bit rich frankly from the ‘cradle to the grave’ Labour party to start going on about indocrinating kids considering that’s exactly how they have stayed in power in Scotland for the past half century. Sadly, there are many 50 year olds still do not realise its been done to them. Also, I do not see many of them standing up to back the Tory backbencher who asked for impeachment proceedings against their ex Fuhrer, and I use the word advisedly given his style of leadership, for aiding and abetting the bombing of Iraqi kids to qualify for his congressional medal. Can it be that only the people knew immediately that it was a lie and if so then maybe we are a better judge than those we in Scotland previously entrusted with our democracy. We won’t make that mistake again.

  296. Grendel says:

    “Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
    1 July, 2014 at 6:21 pm“But might I ask what possessed Wings Over Scotland to use kids to carry their banner?”

    We didn’t, and they didn’t.”

    Plenty of folk posed with it. It was carried by a couple of pandas if I recall correctly.

  297. David McCann says:

    @David Goodall.
    Can you read, or did you go to the same school as Ms Wiles?

    The answer you seek is in Stu’s blog. (The letter from the kids parent)

  298. Patrician says:

    @David Goodall

    have a look at the picture in this article or the many online at twitter or facebook. It is a bloody long time since I was called a kid and I am sure ronnie is the same. Please read my comment at 1:48am last night explaining in detail what happened.

    Standards are slipping now, we don’t even get the intelligent trolls visiting now.

  299. tartanarse says:

    John King 1st July 6.47

    Yeah, I know how it looks, cant comment at work, very bust at nights, don’t often comment, but do not ever miss a story on wings.

    In fact, logged into wings all day at work(minimised but check when I get the chance and spend all breaks reading) but ca’t comment.

    I must be gaining Wings some immense stats somewhere for being logged on all day.

    Happy to read everything and would like to comment more but don’t get the chance.

    Keep up the good work y’all.

    Not only are all Yessers too good to be true but the Britters are just so bad it’s too helpful.

    We can’t allow ourselves to simply rely on common sense prevailing in the Britnat implosion show. Keep on doing the good stuff. Knock on doors, tell your friends and enemies to look for the truth.

    Not everyone can possibly fall for endless negativity.

  300. tartanarse says:

    Not bust at nights. Busy.

    I wish. Nights, bust I don’t see any bust when the missus is in bed and I’m posting pish.

  301. Garry Sexton says:

    I was at the protest with others from our group, we held a yes Viewpark & Tannochside banner and it was refreshing to see people of all ages there including the children who were mixing freely, I myself decided I wanted independence for my country as a fresh faced ten year old after a teacher at our primary school went against the grain and actually taught us Scottish history which she was not supposed to do. Now I am almost 42 and if anything my passion has increased there are family members who oppose my views but that basically says our parents let us go our own way so there was no coercion in my childhood.



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