The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


Labour demand £19bn of cuts in Scotland

Posted on March 07, 2012 by

The desperate attempts of the Unionist parties to portray Scotland as a country too poor to survive on its own are nothing if not inventive. One might think that the publication of the latest GERS report, showing that Scotland contributes more to the UK Treasury than it receives back in public spending, would be pretty hard to turn into a plus point for the Union. But while Michael Moore’s strategy on behalf of the Con/Dem coalition has been simply to put his fingers in his ears and insist that Scotland would be poorer outside the United Kingdom in flat-out contradiction of the official facts, the Labour “opposition” are trying a rather different spin.

Scottish Labour’s finance spokesman and failed leadership contender Ken Macintosh issued a press release today in which he made the bizarre claim that the GERS figures somehow constituted a positive case for the Union:

“The GERS report published this morning demonstrates the significant benefit to Scotland of being part of the UK. The report shows that public expenditure in Scotland was last year between £11bn and £19bn higher than all the taxes generated in Scotland, including North Sea oil.”

But let’s look at that for a second, and generously gloss over the fact that Macintosh’s figures apparently have an 73% margin of error. (Is it £11bn or £19bn, Ken? That’d be a fairly important difference.) What Macintosh is actually saying is that Scotland, taken as part of the UK as a whole, ran a budget deficit in 2009/10.

Now, in itself (and leaving aside the comically wide range of Macintosh’s “figures”) that’s true. But then, almost every Western economy currently runs a budget deficit. The UK as a whole ran a vast budget deficit over the same period – just under £152bn – and has been doing so for many years, which is why we’re currently experiencing massive cuts, imposed by the Tories and Lib Dems but backed (and largely caused) by Labour. And since the Scottish Government has no borrowing powers and has to balance its own block grant, every penny of that £11bn (or £19bn) “Scottish” deficit in 2009/10 was actually run up by Labour, the Tories and the Lib Dems at Westminster.

What McIntosh is in fact saying, then, is that Scotland can’t afford to stay in the UK. The logic of his position is that he’s calling for a further £11bn (or £19bn) of public-spending cuts in Scotland – to be imposed by Westminster, as Holyrood’s budget is fixed and wasn’t responsible for the deficit – so that we’ll be living within our means.

The SNP, on the other hand, would prefer Scotland to control its own finances, make huge savings by cutting things that the Scottish people don’t want (like Trident and PFI), and take full advantage of the likely increase in oil prices over the coming years to pay down our debts and fund investment in renewable resources for the future.

We don’t think it’s hard to spot which of those is the “positive” option.

8 to “Labour demand £19bn of cuts in Scotland”

  1. Peter A Bell says:

    The UK as a whole ran a vast budget deficit over the same period – just under £152m…

    Billion?

    Reply
  2. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Whoops. Fixed!

    Reply
  3. Nothing less than expected,but if one came up with the truth not contaminated by their party politics,that would be real news,ha ha ha .

    Reply
  4. Stevie Cosmic says:

    "The report shows that public expenditure in Scotland was last year between £11bn and £19bn higher than all the taxes generated in Scotland, including North Sea oil.”

    I have a few issues with this wilfully misleading statement:
     
    1. North Sea Oil revenues and taxes don't accrue to the Scottish account. They never have. They accrue to 'Terra ex Regio' , that other part of the UK that isn't on the map, and then duly flow to Westminster. Both John Jappy and Nial Aslen, whether you agree with their vastly different politics, have both shown (with references), that taxes, levies, CT et al collected from North Sea resources (even the the levies paid by Scottish refineries) are deliberately kept off the books, while somewhat bizarrely, the entire cost for the maintenace of Trident is charged to the Scottish account…..go figure Ken.

    2. The true figures for North Sea Oil and Gas are difficult to come by. They  are out there though…..if you know where to look. So, Ken, mate, if you are implying that Scotland's budget deficit would cripple this small country of 5 million people if it were independent, have a gander at the following figures from a Commons debate last November, courtesy Nicholas Soames. They paint an altogether different picture of an independent Scotland with control over it's geographical share of North Sea Oil revenues:

    "The taxes forecast to be raised from the industry in 2011-12 include some £6 billion in income tax, national insurance contributions and corporation tax paid by the supply chain companies, with an additional £11 billion from taxes on production itself. That amounts to 25% of all the corporation tax received by the Exchequer. The production of indigenous oil and gas improved the balance of payments by £35 billion in 2011, thus halving the trade deficit, and the supply chain added another £5 billion to £6 billion with exports of oilfield goods and services. Incidentally, that is an aspect of the industry that is doing extremely well here and overseas, and it is flying the flag for Britain effectively."
    link to publications.parliament.uk
    I can only imagine that folks like Macintosh make this stuff up because they truly hate Scotland. Why else would they attempt to hobble their own country at every possible opportunity just to keep themselves in a job?
     

    Reply
  5. MajorBloodnok says:

    Looking at Ken McIntosh's press release it is so full of misrepresentations it's difficult to know where to start.
    The £11bn and/or £19bn disparity between all public expenditure (which includes Scottish and UK government expenditire in Scotland, as well as our per-capita share of UK debt servicing) and the revenues raised in Scotland depends on whether you include our geographical North Sea Oil revenues (i.e. £8bn oil revenue for 2010/2011).
    But as you indicate it's actually about the deficit; and the important conclusion of GERS is that Scotland's deficit, if allowed a geographical share of the oil revenues, would be LESS than the equivalent UK deficit which absorbs ALL of the oil revenues (e.g. 4.4% as opposed to 6.6% for current budget balance).
    So yes, Scotland runs a deficit, but which, if we are allowed to have the oil revenue, is not as big as the UK's deficit (a fact which he conveniently didn't mention).
    Perhaps that's what he means by a "redistributive UK" – redistributing Scottish revenue to the UK and redistributing UK debt to Scotland.
    GERS therefore demonstrates that Scotland would be better off Independent with the oil revenues to play with, than in the Union without control of these revenues.  Simple – and look I'm not an accountant or economist but even I could work that out!
    And yes, the oil will run out eventually – but we'll have (at least) 30 years to plan what to do when that happens.

    Reply
  6. MajorBloodnok says:

    Re Stevie Cosmic – I should have refreshed the page before posting!  So that means the £8bn extra revenue identified in GERS could actually be a very conservative underestimate.  Even better!

    Reply
  7. daretodare says:

    Unionists always forgot to mention that in 1979, the last time Scotland held a referendum, UK national debt was £84 billion. Today it is over 520% of UK National Income or £1.004 Trillion Pounds. Thats right £1004 billion – that is staggering economic incompetence 

    Also another point often conveniently forgotten is the full effect of the Scottish block grant – currently around £30 billion.  

    The block grant is subsequently distributed across various devolved responsibilities like SNHS, Local Authority funding – Education, Housing and Infrastructure. As this £30 billion is distributed and spent around £10billion is returned to Westminster in the form of VAT, PAYE/National Insurance and other indirect taxes. There is NI on wages to teachers, nurses and other public sector worker, all the VAT on material purchases, bought in services, infrastructure contracts etc, all returns to Westminster. In an independent Scotland the headline budgets could remain more or less the same but the tax take and funds available for redistribution would in effect increase 20+% because direct and indirect tax receipts would remain with the Scottish Treasury.         

    Reply
  8. daretodare says:

    Good point – that perhaps that’s what he means by a “redistributive UK” – redistributing Scottish revenue to the UK and redistributing UK debt to Scotland. The truth is always simple – strip away all the spin, negative propaganda and we find the actual facts and evidence support your astute conclusion. 
    Separately, oil will not run out in 30 years or anything like it. Including reserves west of Shetland – think 70 – 100 years minimum. Peak oil east of Shetland may have occurred (may!) but peak oil from all Scottish waters? Not a chance – we are no where near it! The total oil recovered west of Shetland will in time equal “all the oil” east of Shetland: that’s “all the oil” of the UK, Norwegian and Dannish sectors combined. It is not by accident that only the fields east of Shetland were ever allowed to be developed by the UK treasury.   

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,945 Posts, 1,246,395 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • twathater on Search And Replace: “Dan as soon as I read that post on yesthink.scot I thought I was reading something from Chas, Aydan, or…Jul 7, 03:09
    • robertkknight on Search And Replace: “You’ve not been paying attention. I do vote. I go into a booth and if no candidate takes my fancy…Jul 6, 22:32
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: ““humans haven’t suddenly evolved to be twice the size we were a few decades ago” False memories there? Try looking…Jul 6, 22:29
    • Dan on Search And Replace: “@ Confused at 1:23 pm On form today C! As the mentalists continue to wage war, and Musk and others…Jul 6, 21:47
    • Dunx on Search And Replace: “With the Catholics you also got the inquisition. Their main weapon was fear.Jul 6, 21:12
    • Southernbystander on Search And Replace: “Up to a point, I don’t disagree Alf, but all racism is bad, no matter its origin, and nationalists also…Jul 6, 20:15
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “You are all singing from the same BBC hymn sheet. Nothing will distract from the disaster that is now Scotland.…Jul 6, 19:56
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “You don’t vote but you could go on and on about Reform. You are suddenly an expert on Reform corruption.…Jul 6, 19:38
    • Alf Baird on Search And Replace: ““committed racists” Colonialism is described as ‘hateful racism’ (Cesaire); thus, colonialists must be ‘committed racists’. Scots ‘unionists’ evidently still need…Jul 6, 19:13
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: ““The oppressive jackboot of the coloniser will never be lifted from the throats of the wretched, nor the alien, colonising…Jul 6, 19:02
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “The Central and Southern American peoples who practiced centralised government, settled agriculture, irrigation and monumental building in stone were not…Jul 6, 18:53
    • James on Search And Replace: “Is it no past your bed time wee man? “…..I don’t know whether you’re doing your regular piss take or…Jul 6, 18:39
    • robertkknight on Search And Replace: “Sure, and the only way to beat a cocaine addiction is to use heroine and vote Reform. Any other random…Jul 6, 18:33
    • TURABDIN on Search And Replace: “on the subject of «areswipes», this ought to win a prize for the AI generated variety. https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/eustons-transformation-success-depends-on-taking-a-people-and-place-based-approach-03-07-2026/ London the Great…Jul 6, 16:40
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “The only way Scotland can even begin to start a fresh independence movement is to learn from the past and…Jul 6, 16:26
    • Marie on Search And Replace: “Hate-filled @ 11.59hrs. You haven’t been cruel to me in the slightest. I am well aware of the theft of…Jul 6, 16:04
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “Dave the Jewish Jew hater.Jul 6, 15:56
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “@Hatey That’s the point about these people. They are in a constant state of funeral.Jul 6, 15:45
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “Finding out his real name is Dave was the last straw.Jul 6, 15:31
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “Police told “stop the woke culture and get on with catching criminals” Are Police Scotland listening?Jul 6, 15:17
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “Big ugly Zak is getting the chop. Way to toxic for the liberals and not Marxist enough for the Antifa…Jul 6, 15:02
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “In excess of 7 million deaths were attributed to Covid by April 2024 when the gathering of international statistics ceased.…Jul 6, 14:59
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “Is it not time you started sharing those drugs you are on so the rest of us can keep up?Jul 6, 14:47
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “Credit where credit’s due, Mark. They know how to stage a good funeral. I doubt that even the North Koreans…Jul 6, 14:31
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “Tuberculosis was the weapon used. Very effective. Maximum fatality. No cure at that time. The same method used successfully all…Jul 6, 14:29
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “Ah, c’moan noo, Confused. I can’t believe you’re lumping appeals for G@z@ in with that.Jul 6, 14:19
    • Mark Beggan on Search And Replace: “You never mentioned the Tea Towel carpet lickers. You know. The inbreds who think it’s still the 8th Century and…Jul 6, 14:11
    • Hatey McHateface on Search And Replace: “I wondered if somebody would post that the Aztecs “had it coming”. Thanks, Confused. Good to be reminded occasionally, if…Jul 6, 14:09
    • james on Search And Replace: “Lorncal There is no specific statutory laws under Scots law that concern the “ring-fencing” of internal political donations. However case…Jul 6, 14:08
    • Captain Caveman on Search And Replace: “Do you reckon Fanon would send the ‘keeper the wrong way in a penalty shoot out, Alf? He might be…Jul 6, 14:08
  • A tall tale



↑ Top