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You Couldn’t Make It Up Dept

Posted on May 03, 2013 by

This is her own agent calling it “apt”, not us, okay?

calmanclore

We’ll be watching avidly to see what her “did it really happen or not?” story is.

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    192 to “You Couldn’t Make It Up Dept”

    1. turnip_ghost says:

      Hmmmmm….Interesting….

    2. Cath says:

      Think you’re being over-optimistic Rev. I’d guess the agent just thought it was apt given the stooshie. Doubt she’ll go anywhere near it if she has any sense.
       

    3. handclapping says:

      Aren’t I lucky not to have TV?
      Uninformation is bliss, ’tis folly to be involved.

    4. YesYesYes says:

      Is this the first ‘Calmanballs’ then?

    5. HandandShrimp says:

      Given the Scotsman and the BBC have hammered this story and so far not a single blog or post has been posted to demonstrate that any of this happened, I don’t think we should let this rest. Susan herself will realise there is comedy gold in a stooshie of this magnitude with call Kaye, Wilson, Alexander and all the rest weighing in.
       
      You would think at least one of them would have said “can you show me the posts”?

    6. john king says:

      This will end with no clear outcome if its allowed to , letting her off the hook is not an option imop 
      she needs to put up or withdraw her complaint PUBLICLY

    7. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Think you’re being over-optimistic Rev. I’d guess the agent just thought it was apt given the stooshie. Doubt she’ll go anywhere near it if she has any sense.”

      I was joking… 😀

    8. Mosstrooper says:

      I think a big boy done it an’ ran away so he did

    9. HandandShrimp says:

      Mosstrooper
       
      Almost certainly, but was the big boy a unionist churnalist.
       
      🙂

    10. balgayboy says:

      I reckon she has had to much misplaced belief and comfort or conditioning in the normal MSM & EBC guff like most pro-unionists, thinking that it would go unchallenged and naively did not recognise the power and critique of the likes of WOS, NNS and other websites. Obviously not really up with the changing political situation in Scotland and a BIG mistake for any so called modern satire comedienne. Lesson learned I hope.

    11. Baheid says:

      l sent an e:mail to radio scotland this morning  when they were discussing with Danny Alexander, asked if they could direct me to where they had seen the alleged threats. And until ANYONE could produce ANY proof l, like most people, would treat this as a good piece of advertising for Miss Calman.

    12. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      Aye, ‘Phantom Menace’ right enough…
       
      It’s like Obama the other day, saying ‘we have evidence that chemical weapons have been used’ (in Syria).
       
      He doesn’t say where, when, by whom, what kind of weapons, who was targetted, what the evidence is, whether or not it’s been verified etc etc.
       
      It’s enough just to state ‘we have evidence’ and let the Great Unwashed fill in all the blanks with the ‘answers’ they’ve been drip-fed for decades.
       
      Fiona Hyslop was good on GMS re the ‘tone of the debate’ – can anyone do the necessary to bring us the clip? It was approx 8.35 or so.

    13. Mac says:

       
      For someone who makes a public living from observational comedy it does seem rather strange that Calman has removed herself from public scrutiny regarding her own behaviour. 
       
      We can now only observe at a distance but an appearance on “Would I Lie To You” now seems very apt.
       
      ———————————
       
      Susan Calman, “I was once a target of deaths threats”.
       
      Host, “What do you think panelists, TRUE or FALSE?”
       
      Panelist 1: “Who said it?”
       
      SC: “I don’t know”
       
      Panelist 2, “Where was it said?”
       
      SC: “I don’t know”
       
      Panelist 3, “When was it said?”
       
      SC: “I don’t know”
       
      ———————————————
       
      Laugh a minute stuff, don’t you agree?

    14. Yesitis says:

      “Tears and complaints – the means which I have called water power – can be an extremely useful weapon for disturbing cooperation and reducing others to a condition of slavery.”
       
      -Alfred Adler

    15. Rockhaggis says:

      A third rate comedian who’s repertoire thrives on popularist snipes with a  victims mentality. Like one or two other Scottish comedians, the vogue is to be as brutally  controversial as possible based on imaginary truths, protected by the license of the flood lights. This time she has been called out and lo and behold there is no substance behind the rhetoric, comedic or otherwise. The best reaction in my view is to avoid her performances, not so much to damage her, but as a warning to others who wish to use their public stature to voice opinions out side of their professional remit. If you have something to say, make it  honest and sincere or be prepared to take on the world, outside the immunity given you by your theatrical bubble!

    16. Mosstrooper says:

      I STILL don’t think she’s funny.

    17. EdinScot says:

      I think this furore shows that th Unionists are still in complete denial that the SNP are the Scottish Government. who were elected with a massive majority in 2011.  Not having it all their own way is blinding them to that fact.  This comedienne who i also had never heard of, thought that she could mock Salmond and the SNP as if they were some tiny fringe party and not the democratically elected Government of Scotland.  A tactic, funny enough, the BBC has been mastering for quite a few years but with ever limited returns these days…Now she knows.  Its not enough that certain Unionist figures within and outwith the BBC thought that she had her back. 

      These days thats not enough as things are changing at a fast pace in Scotland.  So for the umpteempth time, if she’s had threats then its either put up or shut up’ for the Unionists.  Such is the rabidity  of the BBC and the Hootsman that you’d be forgiven for thinking they’d be falling over theirselves to show us the evidence.  Funny that.  Its not enough to wave a piece of paper as the Grayman found out however much the bletherer protested that the evidence existed.

      So for the umpteempth time, if she’s had threats then its either put up or shut up’ time for the UnionistsSuch is the rabidity  of the BBC and the Hootsman in particular that you’d be forgiven for thinking they’d be falling over theirselves to present us with the evidence.  Funny that.  Its not enough to wave a piece of paper as the Grayman found out however much the bletherer protested that the evidence existed.

       Its not enough that certain Unionist figures within and outwith the BBC thought that she had her back. These days thats not enough as things are changing at a fast pace in Scotland. So for the umpteempth time, if she’s had threats then its either put up or shut up’ for the Unionists. Such is the rabidity of the BBC and the Hootsman that you’d be forgiven for thinking they’d be falling over theirselves to show us the evidence. Funny that. Its not enough to wave a piece of paper as the Grayman found out however much the bletherer protested that the evidence existed.

      So for the umpteempth time, if she’s had threats then its either put up or shut up’ time for the Unionists. Such is the rabidity of the BBC and the Hootsman in particular that you’d be forgiven for thinking they’d be falling over theirselves to present us with the evidence. Funny that. Its not enough to wave a piece of paper as the Grayman found out however much the bletherer protested that the evidence existed.

      By the way, does Kay with an e still do that wee twirly thing with an imaginery phone…now that would be good satire lol

    18. alasdair says:

      Any news on links / quotes of the alleged death threats yet?  I’m guessing not.

    19. EdinScot says:

      @ Rev
       
      Ive made a ‘Calman Ballsup’ of my above post so you have my permission to scrap it, thats what i get for trying to multi task.

    20. Doug Daniel says:

      It’s so pathetic when celebrities “quit” Twitter. Get over yourself.

    21. balgayboy says:

        Is this true? on Auld Alliance. If so I would have thought the Conservative Leader in Scotland had other priorities  for her constituents rather than send this message.
      The Scottish Conservative Leader Ruth Davidson sent her a  allegedly “Ms Calman” message last week… .inquiring how her arse was for Love Bites?  

    22. BuckieBraes says:

      EdinScot
      I rather like your post the way it is. It has a certain emphatic quality!

    23. Morag says:

      This really is bizarro-land.  We know of absolutely definite cases of BT supporters expressing a desire to shoot Salmond and so on, for example the incident where a BT supporter published Frankie Boyle’s address and encouraged people to “pay him a visit”.  We’re told to get a grip, have a sense of perspective, and not to over-react.  And that may well be sound advice.
       
      But here we have nothing but a suggestion of a rumour, with no source and no quotes, being turned into a media shit-storm.  How bad were these alleged comments?  What was actually said?  Can we please judge for ourselves whether they were anything to get outraged about?  No, because there’s no proof they exist at all.  But still the Hootsmon and the BBC are giving them more and more publicity.
       
      I can’t quite believe this is really happening.  Except it is.

    24. balgayboy says:

      Apologies for O/T: The SWA have failed in their attempt in court in preventing the SG’s policy of minimum alcohol pricing which is a sensible policy of trying to make Scotland a more alcohol responsible country and ultimately make the people healthier in body and mind to pass on to future generations a more prosperous, all embracing, self respecting great independent country.  

    25. EdinScot says:

      BuckieBraes says:
      3 May, 2013 at 2:04 pm

      EdinScot
      I rather like your post the way it is. It has a certain emphatic quality!
       
      Im actually sounding like them.  Yikes. 
       
      The Calman Commission of Sir Kenneth Calman who excluded the independence option from his commission plus his daughter Susan Calman slagging off her own country and more specifically the independence side, has the full support of the BBC and the hootsman and Labour politicans, quelle surprise, has once again, exposed the democratic deficit in our media and why Scotland is right not to shut up and go away.   Our democracy demands it

    26. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      Here’s Fiona Hyslop on GMS.
       
      I don’t know how to extract a segment, so this is the link to the whole show – condensed comment from Douglas Alexander followed by Hyslop, starts at 2hrs 34 mins:
       
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s0vzq

    27. HandandShrimp says:

      Morag
       
      I can’t believe this is happening either (and, I suspect, neither can Susan Calman who is probably wishing the whole fecking thing would go away). The Hoot and Beeb have made serious hay out of, it would seem, absolutely nothing. If it is nothing they need to be held to account. If it is a lie Susan has made a really silly error of judgement. If hitherto her policy has been to avoid politics then I think her instincts were sound and she should have stuck with them.

    28. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      UKOK’s Shameless Propaganda Machine 
      Rather unbelievably, the Scotsman is leading with “Cartoon of the Week” on their homepage:
      http://www.scotsman.com
      Surprise surprise, the same Der Sturmer style cartoon around the Calman story is the leading image. 
       

    29. Laura says:

      Maybe just a stooshie to get ‘donorgate’ on the back burner or is there something else they are trying to hide?
       

    30. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Belgayboy
      I was very puzzled about the SWAs opposition the minimum pricing policy. As far as I can make out whisky is too expensive anyway for the policy to effect them. Perhaps the cheap supermarket gut rot may be effected but surly not the vast majority of their sales. I suspect that it was just an excuse for some Tory tofs to take a pop at the SNP at the expense of the populations health.

    31. Mac says:

      The Scotsman featuring Susan Calman in 2006. 
       
      This is Ms Calman speakig of her time as a lawyer working in America, “It was kind of like Silence of the Lambs walking into a cell to interview a multiple murderer. It was a huge eye-opener – not only to meet prisoners but also to see the standard of legal representation in the US. Many had very poor quality legal advice – sometimes by lawyers who were obviously intoxicated in court.”
       
      From drunken American lawyers to death threats from Cybernats. It seems obvious to Susan Calman. 

    32. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Laura
      Definitely! UKIP’s MASSIVE advance in England; 26% of the vote in the council election of yesterday! They don’t want to give that reality any oxygen.
      That undermines two of UKOK’s central planks. First, that Labour will save Scotland, and second, that there will be no uncertainty about  EU membership. But these are both MYTHS! Rather, we have

      #UKOK=UKIP.
      BitterTogether, but not with Europe!

       
      Hail Caesar!

    33. Bill C says:

      @Amadeus – Spot on.

    34. Marcia says:

      From a graph I saw on BBC TV Labour’s vote share seem to suffer a bit more than the Tories & LD compared to the local elections last year. I presume the anti-Europe CDE types attracted to UKIP. Not what Ed needs.

    35. Susan Calman has a show at the Stand at the Edinburgh festival in Aug.wander what her patter will be. She starts a new job in June as a columnist with Diva Mag in June. She is on in London too this weekend. All on facebook

    36. Fiona says:

      The Man in the Jar says:
       

      @Belgayboy
      I was very puzzled about the SWAs opposition the minimum pricing policy. As far as I can make out whisky is too expensive anyway for the policy to effect them. Perhaps the cheap supermarket gut rot may be effected but surly not the vast majority of their sales. I suspect that it was just an excuse for some Tory tofs to take a pop at the SNP at the expense of the populations health.
       

      Not really a surprise when you see that Diageo and Edrington are the largest members of the SWA. Whisky is not their sole business so I expect they are trying to protect their sales of vodka etc which will fall under the minimum pricing and using Whisky as a smokescreen.
       
      I see that James Cook at the BBC obviously knows better than the Court of Session judges by stating
       
      “Policies which breach European Union regulations on free trade, as this one appears to do, can be allowed if they make a significant impact on crime, ill health and other social ills”.
       
      Despite quoting the following from the judgement “The court also decided that the measures were not incompatible with EU law.” Who needs Judges, when we could just ask BBC correspondents for their opinion?

    37. Jiggsbro says:

      The policy breaches European Union regulations on free trade but is not incompatible with EU law, because its intent is to make a significant impact on crime, ill health and other social ills.

    38. beachthistle says:

      I reckon this Calman brouhaha encapsulates Better Together’s mindset: that having all the mainstream media behind them is (going to be) enough (to win a No/KnowYourPlace vote).
      So Calman (i’m another who had never heard of her before this week, one of the many benefits of not having a TV and also being allergic to Radio Scotchland) thought that she was safe, untouchable, in her BBC bubble: that even if she was challenged by others to produce evidence* she wouldn’t be pressured to do so by anybody who ‘mattered’. 
      * that she used to be a lawyer makes the fact that no-evidence has (as yet)  been produced by her or her backers/spinners even more suspicious – and ludicrous..

    39. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Bill C
      Thanks. You got me thinking, perhaps Wings’s should have a brainstorming session around developing pithy Mnemonic Slogans which are not only catchy, but contribute to dismantling BitterTogether’s Myths and Distortions. I’ll start the ball rolling here by repeating my previous attempts.
      #UKOK=UKIP.

      BitterTogether, but not with Europe!

      * I noted that Scottish Skier has already started with some on another thread.

    40. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      This Arthur Miller interview is worth a look.
       
      Who are the ‘witches’ now?
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9gmj38loQM

    41. Erchie says:

      The Ruth Davidson tweet was a quote of an insult from “The High Life” which Ms Calman had said she was watching.
       
      so in the nature of a pleasantry
       

    42. Jason says:

      Calman wrote on her blog: ‘There’s more propaganda, from both sides, than North Korea produces in a decade.’
       
      But only one side of the independence debate has the ability to produce propaganda, which doesn’t say much for her research at the very least. 

    43. drks says:

      Susan Calman is that strange breed of comedian who seems to exist only to appear on all of the panel shows in the world, regardless of whether they are funny or whether anyone has actually heard of them before. The comedy equivalent of famous-for-being famous people like Paris Hilton or something like that.

      She seems to be on the News Quiz more often than Sandi Toksvig.

    44. Juteman says:

      I’m starting to think that Ms Calman was more used, than an actual user.
      It was always going to get nasty.

    45. Jiggsbro says:

      But only one side of the independence debate has the ability to produce propaganda
       
      Only one side has main-stream media outlets for its propaganda, but both sides produce it. Newsnet, for example, is primarily propaganda. I have no doubt that some Unionists would consider Wings to be propaganda. Much of what the official ‘Yes’ campaign produces is propaganda (and rightly so).

    46. dmw42 says:

      @Laura says: “Maybe just a stooshie to get ‘donorgate’ on the back burner or is there something else they are trying to hide”.
       
      Well one of the things they’ve been trying to hide is the contents of the Foreign Affairs Committee report issued earlier this week
       
      See http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmfaff/643/643.pdf
       
      For instance, they may be trying to hide (in the words of the Committee and/or its ‘expert’ witnesses) that:
      There is an inherent risk that RUK would lose its seat at the UN.

      It is in rUK’s interest to have Scotland as a member of NATO, that NATO would decide whether and how Scotland would become a member.
       
      It would be for the EU to decide if Scotland should be a member, rUK would need to decrease its MEPs; rUK would cease to be one of the EU’s ‘big three’ Member States and could face a diminished capacity for influence bilaterally and within the EU institutions. This in turn could lead to a reduced influence with the United States if its capacity to exercise influence on EU policy-making is diminished. Other EU countries could exploit separation to pressurise the RUK to re-negotiate the terms of its membership in particular policy areas (for example the Euro, Schengen or the budget rebate).
       
      It would be prohibitively difficult and costly to find any other site for Trident outside Scotland… this would call into question the UK’s nuclear defences… that would precipitate the UK out of the nuclear business. There would also be a greater chance that the RUK’s relationship with its key allies and traditional defence partners, including its privileged relationship with the US, which is at least partly sustained by nuclear and security co-operation, would come under scrutiny and review if it did not retain its nuclear deterrent, which of itself could serve to fuel the views of some states that the RUK was a power in irreversible decline;
       
      The prestige of the UK as a successful multinational state would be compromised by the loss of a major territory within it; 8% loss in GDP results in 8% loss in FCO (and other Departmental) budgets and would “cut into the bone of existing operations”.
       
      There is no reason in principle why Scotland could not set up a fully functioning and successful diplomatic service if it became an independent country.
       
      Or, maybe they’re trying to hide that ‘sweetheart tax deals’ have been agreed with 4 large corporations http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/29/sweetheart-tax-deals (no names mentioned but I recall something about a large international company being involved in negotiations with HMRC about Employee Benefit Trusts…)
       
       
      Or maybe it’s just another slow news week.

    47. G. Campbell says:

      Scotland has one of the highest rates of famous people being killed by cybernats in Europe, and the figures stubbornly refuse to fall: this year unchanged at ZERO.

    48. Jason says:

      @Jiggsbor 
      Only one side has main-stream media outlets for its propaganda, but both sides produce it. 
       
      Depends how propaganda is defined: organised dissemination; widely spread. Yes Scotland and the SNP (and the Greens) often struggle to get their message out because of a lack of supportive major media outlets.
       
      There’s nothing unusual about different groups in a democracy producing information – if this was the meaning intended, it’s pointless and odd to mention North Korea. 

    49. alexicon says:

      Interesting that the BT mob are so concerned. Or could it be they know they can’t control the media like they used to, so they have to discredit successful blogs and cybernats who constantly disprove their unbelievable and hypocritical Labour fed headlined news.
      A little reminder of the BT website where actual proof was posted about death threats.
      “Fury over SNP web kill threat”
      “FURIOUS Nats last night slammed pro-union campaign chiefs — after a thug posted a death threat against the SNP on its Facebook page.

      Gary Coburn wrote on the Better Together site that he wanted to fire BULLETS at party leaders.
      The threat was posted on Thursday — but web bosses at the campaign, run by former Chancellor Alistair Darling, only removed it last night.
      An SNP spokesman said: “That the offending post stayed on their page while other posts were edited suggests it was given the OK.
      “Alistair Darling must clamp down on this unsavoury element.”
      Coburn made the comment in response to an earlier post criticising Nats MSP David Torrance for encouraging SNP members to attend a Better Together talk by ex-PM Gordon Brown.
      Referring to the 2014 indy poll he said: “I wish the vote was how many bullets do we get to fire into the SNP leaders.”
      Better Together said: “We’ve strict rules about what can be said on our Facebook page. The user will be banned.”

      http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/4677296/Fury-over-SNP-web-kill-threat.html#ixzz2SFJsCseT
       

    50. G. Campbell says:

      Frederick MacAulay: “And the Scottish BAFTA award for best dramatic performance goes to…”

      “Susan Calman!”

      *eardrum bursting cheers and applause*

      Background chatter:
      “She’s a strong woman, that Susan.”
      “I just love quaint Scotch people.” (BBC bod from London)
      “Bloody nats.”
      “Misogynists!” (Edinburgh Eye)
      “Don’t blame me.” (Fiona Hyslop)
      “Be a good Tory and pass over the prawn sandwiches, Murdo.” (BudzEyeView)
      “When our relentlessy positive message goes tits up I’ll get a job at STV.” (Blair Jenkins)

      Fred: “I’m afraid Susan can’t be here with us tonight, as she’s currently closing her Netflix account, but she does have a new book out tomorrow co-authored by Salman Rushdie. That’s not a joke, by the way. I don’t do jokes. That was a joke, by the way. You can laugh now.”

    51. velofello says:

      It is Ms Calman’s civic duty to inform the police and provide full details of the death threats she claims to have received. There is a danger to the public and the democratic process to have such people at large – the alleged persons who threatened her stupid.
      i’m sure her Daddy would advise her to go to the police and explain.
      I note that the Rt Honourable Douglas Alexander is offering his support to Ms Calman and so she must now step forward, stop Hokey Cokeying around on this, speak up so to ensure all can be Okey Dokey for UKOK.

    52. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @dmw42
      High precision summary of some of BitterTogether’s Real Fears about an Independent Scotland. Perhaps the Scotsman can spin this into another one of their doomsday litanies; e.g.,
      Scottish Independence: ‘cut’ to ‘the bone’ Warning from UK
      🙂

    53. Jiggsbro says:

      Depends how propaganda is defined: organised dissemination; widely spread…There’s nothing unusual about different groups in a democracy producing information – if this was the meaning intended, it’s pointless and odd to mention North Korea.
       
      Well, yes, pretty much anything depends on how you define it. You appear to have chosen two definitions that I doubt Susan Calman was using; the fact that one of the definitions you chose made the statement ‘pointless and odd’ might have been a clue that it wasn’t the most appropriate definition. Propaganda is not necessarily widely spread, nor is it simply information. It’s one-sided information, intended to influence attitudes. It’s not remotely unusual for propaganda to be produced by political parties or causes. What is perhaps unusual in the case of the referendum is the perception that Susan Calman has that there is little information that is not propaganda. That’s a failing of the MSM, of course, not of the politicians, but I can see why someone might tire of the MSM diet of “He said, she said” and blame the politicians rather than the messenger.

    54. the rough bounds says:

      How can one make a death threat against a person that apparently, according to all this stuff I’ve just been reading, is already brain dead?
      I don’t think it can be done.
      Who is this Calman lassie anyway. I hadn’t heard of her until the last few of days. Is she an aspiring comedienne or whatever?

    55. Juteman says:

      I wish folk would direct their anger at the real villains. Maybe Ms Calman was a ‘useful fool’?

    56. G. Campbell says:

      Unionists MPs are all the same.
      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zDkqCc9tp4Y/UYPou5adBWI/AAAAAAAAALk/oB3fUy-15xM/s1600/Unionist-MPs-are-all-the-same.png
      (Screengrab taken at 5:20 this morning)

    57. Jason says:

      @Jiggsbro
      That’s a failing of the MSM, of course, not of the politicians, but I can see why someone might tire of the MSM diet of “He said, she said” and blame the politicians rather than the messenger.
       
      Which is what Calman seems to have missed; this was the original intended point. It’s also an area which is ripe for comic pickings.

    58. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Juteman
      Calman, a lawyer, lays a charge without evidence.
      So, if this was a deception, then surely she is therefore an accomplice to deception.

      Chris Huhme and Vicky Price learned the hard way that deception or being an accomplice to deception is a crime. There deception over a speeding ticket led to jail time. Ms Calman may have to lawyer up, or she may be facing the prospect of tasting some (Scotch) Porridge too! 🙂

    59. Juteman says:

      “So Ms Calman, did you know you were targeted on a nasty cybernat blog, and threatened with burning at the stake?”
      “Oh that’s horrible, i couldn’t bear to read that!”
      Job done, said the journalist/MI operative. Just after he got off the phone to the BBC and Labour.
      Due to her father, and her unionist views, she ‘could’ make a nice target for these ‘cybernat’ nutters? 

    60. Patrick Roden says:

      This stushie can be a Godsend for the Yes footsoldiers. The way the BBC has went with this story compared to how they have been silent on proveable death threats by unionists as well as their silence on donargate, is so clear evidence of bias, that the only people who fail to see this clear bias, will be those who don’t want to see.
       
       This is a flag that needs hoisted high, showing how badly the beeb are serving the people who pay their TV licence.
       
      Even if they say that Calman told them , the fact they did not check the facts before they ran with this story, is a disgraceful way for highly paid journalists to ply their trade.
       
      The diffirence in approach to this as well as the lack of coverage for far more important stories that the people of Scotland have the right to know, will be great for showing the licence payer how badly they are being short changed.
       
      Spread it far and wide folks, it will be such a spectacular own goal if they can’t produce the evidence of these death threats and abuse.
       

    61. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @ Juteman
      Not quite. Calman went on the record with the Scotsman. Surprised you haven’t picked up on that from Rev’s previous articles on the subject. After you’ve read them, let us know if your still a Calman Apologist.

    62. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Patrick Roden
      Well observed Patrick. I think we should ask Rev to draw of a table of all such instances where a direct comparison shows proves that the MSM is biased against Scottish Independence.
      Sceptism is often the first step towards Enlightenment. To wean people off of relying on such biased MSM output, one needs to allow them to develop a healthy scepticism of these outlets. As you say, such blatant examples of this as evidenced by Calman versus  Frankie Boyle, not to say anything of the death threats directed at  Salmond/Sturgeon, are golden.

    63. Jiggsbro says:

      Chris Huhme and Vicky Price learned the hard way that deception or being an accomplice to deception is a crime.
       
      No they didn’t. They discovered that perverting the course of justice was a crime. If deception in itself were a crime, there’d be very few people without criminal records.

    64. Juteman says:

      I’ve read it all AM.
      Just saying.
      Maybe more thought is needed.

      And like Jiggsboro, i wonder why you mention the Prices?

    65. Marcia says:

      Jiggsbro :
       
      If deception was a crime a lot of parents would be up before the courts just after Christmas. 🙂

    66. lumilumi says:

      G- Campbell @5.45
       
      Thanks for the screengrab link.
       
      Oh, the irony!
      Douglas (Or Danny? It’s Danny in the picture – same difference, really) Alexander calling for “Not a divisive and bitter battle for standing but a respectful offering of differing visions for the future of our nation. We need vision, not viciousness.”
       
      Well, it’d help if the BT lot and SLAB put forward a vision for Scotland, to start with, instead of being all bitter and divisive…
       
      Maybe this was the reason for all the stushie over Ms Calman: to pave way to these “pearls of wisdom” from D. Alexander. They have to drag the YES campaign down to their level to make their campaign strategy work.

    67. Jiggsbro says:

      If deception was a crime a lot of parents would be up before the courts just after Christmas.
       
      I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN

    68. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsbro @Juteman
      Calman Reprise!
      Calman, a lawyer, makes an allegation without evidence.So, if this was evidence proves not to exist, then her actions surely fall within the reach of the crime of Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition* 
      With Huhne/Pryce going to jail over a parking ticket, Ms Calman better identify the evidence for her claims, or lawyer up, as she may be facing the prospect of tasting some (Scotch) Porridge too! 
       
      *Definition: Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition:
      Fraud or falsehood by word of mouth, writing or conduct; fraud, uttered with the intent to cheat; and wilful imposition, with the intention that it has been carried into effect.
       

    69. Juteman says:

      How do you know she made an allegation, AM?
      What is the difference between an allegation, and someone feeding you information for a response that they could spin?
      Devils advocate.
       

    70. john king says:

      ““So Ms Calman, did you know you were targeted on a nasty cybernat blog, and threatened with burning at the stake?”
      “Oh that’s horrible, i couldn’t bear to read that!”Job done, said the journalist/MI operative. Just after he got off the phone to the BBC and Labour.Due to her father, and her unionist views, she ‘could’ make a nice target for these ‘cybernat’ nutters? ”
       
      you so read my mind,
      for cybernat attack read mi5

    71. Craig M says:

      I have a couple of thoughts on the whole Calman thing.
      1. Susan Calman is an unwilling pawn and victim of the Better Together mafia, which demonstrates that Better Together are quite prepared to destroy any reputation in their dirty tricks campaign.
      2. Susan Calman is a willing participant in this and is prepared to destroy her own reputation in support of the Better Together mafia campaign (i.e. Susan will take one for the team).

    72. Gusmac says:

      Kudos to Calman. A few days ago, hardly anyone had heard of her.
      She makes some claims which are picked up and repeated ad nauseam by the usual unionist lackeys in the MSM. All attempts to get anyone involved to substantiate her claims are shrugged off and treated as attacks.
      Who was it who said there’s no such thing as bad publicity?
       
      You couldn’t make this up, but I suspect someone has.

    73. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Juteman
      Its very simple. Calman wrote the following in her blog:
      “I will keep talking about Scottish Politics. I’ll keep laughing about Scottish Politics. I’m not going to pretend that I’m not disappointed that people are being horrific towards me. Of course I am. But I’m also pretty convinced it means I’m doing the right thing.
      Pretty definitive I would say. 
       

    74. Jiggsbro says:

      her actions surely fall within the reach of the crime of Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition
       
      They would, if that was actually a crime and if the intent of the falsehood was to defraud someone. As it isn’t and wasn’t, they don’t. As you correctly observe, Susan Calman is a lawyer. You’re not.

    75. Juteman says:

      @AM.
      You are obviously not stupid, so i can only assume you are ignoring the point i was trying to make.
      Look at that squirrel.

    76. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Craig M @Gusmac
      How about the following conjunction:
      1. Susan Calman is an willing pawn of the Better Together mafia, which demonstrates that Better Together are quite prepared to destroy any reputation in their dirty tricks campaign.
      AND
      2. Susan Calman is a willing participant in this and is seeking to enhance her UK celebrity status with the assistance of the Better Together mafia campaign (i.e. Susan will take a leg up from the team) !
       

    77. Juteman says:

      Please folk, don’t fall into what i’m convinced is a trap.
      Don’t shoot the messenger.

    78. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsbro
      If you are a lawyer, good, I am happy to reason to a conclusion. If not, its still all good.
      I guess your point is that the crime of Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition* (definition below), should be rest as a conjunction of terms. I had interpreted it as an ‘or’.  So, how about Calman is guilty of False accusation. 
      Definitions:

      False accusation: Falsely accusing another of committing a crime.
       Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition: Fraud or falsehood by word of mouth, writing or conduct; fraud, uttered with the intent to cheat; and wilful imposition, with the intention that it has been carried into effect.

    79. scottish_skier says:

      This has been the worst day for better together this year according to web stats.

      No wonder, what with UKIP all over the headlines. The BNP would probably be preferred in Scotland to Farage; at least the former are fairly centrist economically.

      How the f**k do you sell the union now that Farage is it’s new poster boy. Jeez it was hard enough to sell before.

      Calman is so not all over the news too. Well not the news that at least a few folk read. And no wonder, nobody gives a crap about this total non-story (in the sense it’s made up – the ‘making up’ part is slightly more of interest).

      ‘I’m not going to vote for independence but instead vote No then UKIP or Tory because someone said they’d seen on the telly the other night that this comedian I’ve never heard of before made some jokes about Scotland that weren’t funny and some person on the interweb wasn’t happy about that and said some stuff that made her cry although the comedian doesn’t apparently know who it was or what they said. Or at least I think it was that.’

      #UK[IP]OK
       
       

    80. Albert Herring says:

      ““So Ms Calman, did you know you were targeted on a nasty cybernat blog, and threatened with burning at the stake?”“Oh that’s horrible, i couldn’t bear to read that!”Job done, said the journalist/MI operative. Just after he got off the phone to the BBC and Labour.Due to her father, and her unionist views, she ‘could’ make a nice target for these ‘cybernat’ nutters?”
       
      I think if MIwhatever were involved, there would probably an actual blog to cite as evidence. Something to look forward to, I suppose.

    81. Juteman says:

      @AM.
      Why are you determined to turn this thread into an anti-Calman thread?
      Surely the fault lies with the media who fed her the false information?
       

    82. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Juteman said
      I can only assume you are ignoring the point i was trying to make.”
      Before such presumption, pray grant me the same benefit of the doubt that you so bequeath on Calman! 😉
      Truth be told, 
      I am assuming you are ignoring the point i was trying to make.
      Hey, look another squirrel! 

    83. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Juteman
      said
      “Why are you determined* to turn this thread into an anti-Calman thread?”
      No, I’m not. I’m simply presenting a reasoned view in opposition to the “O’h, the poor wee lassie just got used” that you seem to favour.  
      Any resort to Ad hominen* speaks for itself.
      *Ad hominem attacks are ultimately self-defeating. They are equivalent to admitting that you have lost the argument.
       

    84. Juteman says:

      Enough squirrels for me to make my mind up.:-)

    85. HandandShrimp says:

      AM
       
      I can’t see any mileage in Calman willingly doing this to further a UK career. I don’t think this is even playing outside Scotland. She was careful enough to say that she had been told these things had happened but hadn’t looked. So she has accused no one.
      She may be a willing pawn but not much more than a pawn. I was surprised by the number and speed of the articles from the likes of Brian Wilson and Douglas Alexander, cartoons and all the rest. It does look a deliberate WW1 style over the top push for something already thought through by BT. This may explain her taking fright and shutting everything down. She really doesn’t want to talk about this because she herself suspects she has been less than wise. 

    86. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Scottish Skier
      Thanks for chipping in your Mnemonic Slogan*: #UK[IP]OK.
      Looking forward to other contributions.
      The current list:
      Mnemonic Slogan* List

      #UK[IP]OK.
      UKOK=UKIP
      BitterTogether, but not in Europe!

      *******************************
      The Call for Mnemonic Slogans:
      Looking for Mnemonic Slogans which are not only catchy, but contribute to dismantling BitterTogether’s Myths and Distortions. 

    87. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @HandandShrimp
      said
      “I was surprised by the number and speed of the articles from the likes of Brian Wilson and Douglas Alexander, cartoons and all the rest.”
      Excellent point. That had definitely not crossed my mind.
      @Juteman
      I did enjoy the exchange. Truce? 
      I hope you can chip in to The Call for Mnemonic Slogans.
       

    88. Jiggsbro says:

      I guess your point is that the crime of Falsehood, fraud and wilful imposition* (definition below), should be rest as a conjunction of terms. I had interpreted it as an ‘or’.
       
      I had interpreted it as an ‘and’, largely because of the word ‘and’.
       
      So, how about Calman is guilty of False accusation.

       
      How about she isn’t, because no such crime exists and even if it did, she didn’t accuse anyone specific of anything specific?

    89. Albalha says:

      @HandandShrimp
      If that’s so let her come out and say ‘It’s all rather much stuff and nonsense’, there are plenty of platforms to choose from to express her view.
      We’re not talking about someone who’s divorced from the workings of media etc etc.
      I said previously this whole story, for me, is the worst of Scottish parochialism. Pretty lousy comic expresses partisan views, the media gorge and on and on and on. Let’s hope we can mature, maybe we can’t, I’m not sure.
      I can only remind myself we’ve months to go or I’d be rather bloody miserable about the whole sorry state of the so called ‘debate’ so far.

    90. HandandShrimp says:

      Caesar!lha
       
      What can she say without betraying her partisan inclinations? I just think the whole thing has blown up way more than she expected/was told it would be.
       
      On the debate..what debate? The Yes camp set out a stall on a topic and the No camp say “FFS! don’t you realise that will make every chicken in the UK incontinent”. The Yes camp strategy seems to be to let the No camp be as insanely negative as possible to the point that their pish becomes a confused web of contradictory fallen skies and raised beaches. I’m hoping the next step is to pool the whole lot into a 30 minute spitting Image special.

    91. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsbro
      I made the statement Calman is likely Guilty of False accusation; Scots legal term. Now the definition of crime is an action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law.
      In refard to the concept of “Guilty of False accusation”, 
      “because no such crime exists and even if it did,”
      I had asked if you were a lawyer, so I guess the above is your indirect admission that your not. So, on what authority do you base your last bold assertion. You may want to carefully note that I hedged all my guilty statements with adverbs or adverbials, like ‘may’ or ‘how about’. Those all speak of potentialities, not certainties. While your statements … 

    92. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @HandandShrimp
      Brilliant post!

    93. Albalha says:

      @handandshrimp
      Perceived partisan views would have been clearer, anyway it leaves me rather cold, let’s hope we can move beyond such banality.

    94. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      Anyone know where Dougie Alexander was speaking this evening? 
       
      Seems he’s expected to address Calmangate in his spiel.
       
      FFS – just realised it’s a Friday evening and I’m online trying to locate the text of a Douglas Alexander speech…what…happened..to…my life? (sobs quietly, tears trippling  into the Lambrini…) 

    95. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Caesar!lha
      I disagree with the notion that the Calman case is a banality. I recommend looking at the NorseWarrior’s Calman banalities of yesterday in “The Memory Hole” article and Rev’s responses. The Rev. is doing a great service by focusing attention on the BitterTogether propaganda machine, be it GreyOps Calman scenario or not. The insight, ideas and understanding obtained by dissecting the Calman case from many different angles both sharpens up our ability to push back on it, and enhances the speed with which we can react to others that are almost certainly coming down the pipeline.  
       

    96. Albalha says:

      @ianbrotherhood
      Rosebank, Clyde Valley
      http://www.labourhame.com/archives/tag/judith-hart

    97. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @ianbrotherhood @Rev. Stuart Campbell
      You got me thinking. It would be good if someone could post information on upcoming “interesting” BitterTogether events. I don’t myself want to log on to their site, in part not to boost their stats, but we really only need one person to do that. I mean, let’s face it, which of us  could possibly pass up the chance to hear “The Positive Case for the Union” ;), and where better to hear it than at a BitterTogether event!

    98. Jiggsbro says:

      So, on what authority do you base your last bold assertion
       
      On the knowledge that there is no crime of ‘false accusation’, coincidentally the same authority on which I base my bold assertion that there is no crime of ‘whistling at the moon’. As you brought up the allegation, the onus probandi lies with you. It’s up to you to prove your bold assertion. Feel free to link to the relevant statute (Hint: there isn’t one).
       
      You may want to carefully note that I hedged all my guilty statement
       
      How you expressed them is entirely irrelevant to whether the ‘crimes’ you allege are actually crimes under Scots law. They aren’t. A working definition of crime may well be ‘an action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law’. For your allegations to be considered crimes, then, they must constitute an offence punishable by law. They don’t.
       
      Susan Calman did not, on the available evidence, commit any crime. Attempting to criminalise a silly woman being a drama queen on the interweb by inventing grand sounding charges based on no extant legislation is futile beyond words.

    99. HighlandMartin says:

      I heard the UKip Scottish whateva on the radio explaining about UKip’s plans for Scotland.  ‘Basically its the Ukip national manifesto and changed to suit Scotland’… The Scottish Parliament will remove its 129 MSPs and the Westminster Scottish MPs will work part time in both Edinburgh and London.  I don’t think the presenter could cut the crackpot off quick enough with his madness.

    100. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      @Caesar!lha-
       
      Cheers for that.
       
      Lucky old Rosebank…
       
      A wee thought – if any ‘serious’ threat is now made to any of the SNP hierarchy or Yes Scotland reps, will we see anything like the same coverage? 
       
      Doh!
       
      And what happens then?
       
      The current ‘shitstorm’ which may or not be based on anything real could then spiral. Not that I’m suspicious of people like Alexander calling for everyone to ‘calm down’ etc….much.
       
      And the ‘threat’ would, of course, be anonymous, could come from anywhere.
       
      Try to imagine being aware ONLY of MSM coverage of this nonsense – today, if the listener consumed nothing but Radio Scotland, s/he would assimilate the following:
      A female Scottish comedian called Calman has been subjected to ‘a torrent of abuse’ and received death threats which she has declined to bring to the Police; Calman (a complete stranger to most) emerges as some kind of besieged heroine standing for ‘free speech’; Douglas ‘The Alexander’ rides up on his trusty steed, quelling the angry mob by appealing to their better-together natures, calling for civilised debate and the cooling of tempers.
       
      Over the piece, BT are gaining from this stushie – so long as the MSM refrain from pinning Calman down on the specifics, they’ll continue to make hay with this narrative.
       
      If Alexander exploits this rubbish in his speech tonight, painting himself as a defender of the hunted Calman, then he should also be prepared to face the same questions she has failed to answer. As a very experienced politician, he will not give-forth on this subject unless he knows the facts behind the alleged ‘threats’. 
       
      It will be interesting to see who asks him. And even more interesting to see who doesn’t.

    101. Manic Monday says:

      Ian B 
      There is no way MSM / BBC will lever ask Alexander or a Unionist about “dirty donations” and their links to War criminals or ask them ti supply proof of alleged death threats to minor comedians.  
      I don’t recall BBC even reporting far less  running stories for three days on death threats to SNP leaders by Better Together supporters.
      http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/4677296/Fury-over-SNP-web-kill-threat.html
      The Sun 02nd December 2012  
      Gary Coburn wrote on the Better Together site that he wanted to fire BULLETS at party leaders.
       
      The threat was posted on Thursday — but web bosses at the campaign, run by former Chancellor Alistair Darling, only removed it last night.
       
      An SNP spokesman said: “That the offending post stayed on their page while other posts were edited suggests it was given the OK.
       
      “Alistair Darling must clamp down on this unsavoury element.”
       
      Coburn made the comment in response to an earlier post criticising Nats MSP David Torrance for encouraging SNP members to attend a Better Together talk by ex-PM Gordon Brown.
       
      Referring to the 2014 indy poll he said: “I wish the vote was how many bullets do we get to fire into the SNP leaders.”



       
       

    102. scottish_skier says:

       I don’t think the presenter could cut the [UKIP] crackpot off quick enough with his madness.

      Caught that on the way out for meal earlier. Face palm hall of fame qualifier. Thanks to the BBC for airing it.

    103. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Juteman
      at8:29pm
      Aye the squirrels are driving me nuts!

    104. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @HighlandMartin
      On a related note, this evening, Mandy Rhodes (Editor of Holyrood Magazine) tweeted the following 

      “When I interviewed @Nigel_Farage recently he said UKIP would be targeting @ScottishLabour vote. Are people still laughing?”
       
       

    105. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      @Manic Monday-
       
      Agreed.
       
      And the longer the MSM keep this up, the more compelling the rap-sheet against BT becomes.
       
      Calman may (or may not) be a patsy, but the behaviour of those doing any stage-setting will be much more difficult to conceal – likewise, those exploiting this episode (eg Hootsmon)  are on very thin ice, and the inexplicable caveats being used vis a vis the matter being ‘subjudice’ point to some serious wobbling.
       
      It may have a while to go yet, but someone is going to end up with a seriously savaged arse over this – on the basis of the documentary evidence available, it won’t be the SNP, Yes Scotland, or any of the Indyref blogs.
       

    106. HighlandMartin says:

      @Amadeus
      I stumbled across this site by chance yesterday.  About 5 pages down it has a breakdown of the Ukip vote in the Eastleigh by election, by social class.  64% of its vote was from the C2 and DE class.  I think UKip just go after the dissaffected full stop. 

      http://politicalbetting.com/

    107. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsboro
      The Scotsman claims that the Calman case subjudicial, so somebody (hopefully a lawyer) there believes/knows a crime has been committed. Now, if it turns out that there are no tweets/facebook messages, then I’m trying to work out what are the legal consequences for those involved.
      Let’s review where I arrived at in our exchanges.  I converged on the following statement

      Calman is likely guilty of False accusation

      and noted

      A crime is an action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law.

      Now there is no logical implication that starts from  those two statements and yields the conclusion “Calman committed the crime of false accusation”. 
      I’m not saying that, you are. Again, I’m trying to arrive at a legal understanding of the position Calman will be in if the alleged threats do not exist.  
      What are you trying to understand?
       

    108. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      A wee something to ponder, for anyone who hasn’t seen what ‘stand-up’ is really all about:
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

    109. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsboro
      Susan Calman did not, on the available evidence*, commit any crime.
      *That’s why Police Investigations are important and necessary. 
      As I recall Paul McBride QC and Neil Lennon were the subject of death threats in the not too distant past, and the police seriously investigated those, as they should. If Calman alleges she has received a death threat publicly, surely the police have no choice, and indeed are duty bound to investigate.

    110. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @HighlandMartin
      Wasn’t aware of the socio-economic classification schema of Office for National Statistics. Cool! Glad to discover that. I noted that the 21st Century Classification would place that 64% in the range group 3-8. That leaves out only Higher/Lower professional and managerial workers. So that looks like a pretty broad base to be going after.
       
      As for Scottish Politics, I guess that Labour is therefore the only cadre of voters that UKIP could plausibly go after.
       
      By the way, not all disaffected voters lean to UKIP; think UK Uncut etc…In the current set up there is no where for them to turn. However, an independent Scottish parliament with proportional representation will offer the opportunity for such voices.

    111. Barontorc says:

      What would trigger the police into investigating this death threat? If they are too busy on other  things, does a death threat just go un-noticed? I really would like to know where the boundry is. They sure were quick to get into Tommy and Gail Sheriden, at someone’s behest – just saying like.

    112. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @ ianbrotherhood
      Brilliantly review and conclusions of the Calman farce. If you had posted that earlier, you would have saved me getting into the extended ping-pong with Juteman/Jiggboro! 
      Also, the George Carlin clip is brilliant. Taking a leaf out of Carlin’s book, I’m inspired to say
      The Better Together Dream: you have to be asleep to believe it!
      Also, just posted on twitter:
      @MinkowskiKelvin 
      tweeted
      @YesScotland @NicolaSturgeon    Why do they call it the BetterTogether Dream? You have to be asleep to believe it! #Vote_UKOK_Get_UKIP
      Feel free to retweet!

    113. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      Well, here it is, as flagged-up by Caesar!lha earlier in this thread – unless he strayed from the script as published by LabourHame, this is what Douglas ‘The Alexander’ had to say on it this evening:
       
      ‘Just this week, we saw the SNP’s Angus Robertson attempt to belittle the campaign against independence, by branding people who opposed separation as having the view that “people in Scotland are uniquely poor, stupid and incapable of governing themselves”.
      As a supporter of the Better Together campaign, I find this characterisation not just inaccurate, but crass and offensive. More importantly, however, it patronises the Scottish people who are quite capable of making an informed choice between different viewpoints without one side denigrating the other
      Yet what should concern us even more is that systematic denigration of fellow Scots is now directed at even those far beyond party politics.
      Just this week the comedian Susan Calman told of her experience after daring to joke about the referendum on the BBC Radio 4 News Quiz.
      She spoke of receiving death threats and being accused of “betraying” her country, being racist towards her own people, “talking down” Scotland, and of “self loathing”.
      This truly appalling episode is just the latest example of the hate filled outpouring of the so-called “cyber-nats”, whose characteristic is general intolerance to everybody and anybody who does not share their outlook.
      How has Scotland – rightly proud of our openness and tolerance – arrived at a place where a comedian is smeared, bullied and even threatened for speaking out and making light of the pretensions of politicians?
      This incident comes, let us remember, just weeks after the Scotsman’s offices – just a few yards from the debating chamber of the Scottish Parliament – have had the word ‘("Tractor" - Ed)s’ painted on its walls.
      All of us here in Scotland – whatever our party affiliations and whatever our views on the referendum – should condemn unequivocally statements and actions that poison the well of public debate and demand a different and better conversation ahead of Scotland’s choice.’
       
      Anyone any the wiser as to what the ‘threat’ consisted of?
       
      And who is he talking about?
       
      Is it us, here?
       
      Shurely shome etc etc…

    114. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Barontorc
      Happy to be corrected, but I believe it needs only one person to approach the police indicating that they believe a crime has been committed. It does not need the alleged victim to agree in order for the police to proceed. The Scotsman noting that the case is sub-judicial suggests that has already happened. However, Rev. wonders wether that isn’t to deter others from doing so, and that indeed there is currently no such police contact.

    115. Albert Herring says:

      I’m coming down with a severe case of Sciurophobia.

    116. Jiggsbro says:

      @AmadeusMinkowski
      What are you trying to understand?
       
      You. Specifically why you’re inventing crimes that you believe Susan Calman to be ‘likely guilty’ of and why you don’t allow your obvious complete ignorance of the law to deter you from this pursuit.

    117. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Albert Herring
      Great new word! Sciophobia, or sciaphobia, is the fear of shadows.
      But why?

    118. douglas clark says:

      Love the sciophobia idea. We need to use it first!

    119. douglas clark says:

      ianbrotherhood,
       
      Excellent post. This is supposed to be supportive:
       
      Douglas ‘The Alexander’ apparently thinks he can say this without fear:
       
      “She spoke of receiving death threats and being accused of “betraying” her country, being racist towards her own people, “talking down” Scotland, and of “self loathing”.
       
      It is still unproven.
       
      Douglas Alexander ought to know better than that.

    120. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      Here’s a musical interlude, with Scary Monsters and Super Creeps, and some wee gory bits as well – not for the faint of heart!
       
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JshB_KFmKfY

    121. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsboro
      You clearly didn’t read my last post. You seem hung up on the earlier posts. Through discussions peoples positions and understanding evolve; that is their value and purpose. Now I made my position clear in the last two posts to you. You clearly failed to read them carefully; strict logic, not heuristic logic.
      My goal here: I’m trying to promote debate and understanding on the Calman case and its relevance/impact on, and to, the Yes Campaign. Others are doing the same.
      What’s your goal here?
       
       

    122. ianbrotherhood says:

      @Douglas Clark-
       
      Precisely so –
       
      Can we therefore expect to see him being grilled by MSM over what he knows?
       
      And if not, why not?
       
       

    123. douglas clark says:

      On Unionist sciophobic twits, those affeared of their own shaddows:
       
      – Duncan Hothersall nominated
       
      – that chairchoob, nominated
       
      – iain smart by name, nominated.
       
      – that Tory that represents me, o, Tom Harris. Nominated.
       
       
       
       
       

    124. Yesitis says:

      Douglas Clark
      “Douglas Alexander ought to know better than that.”
       
      Doesn`t matter. The Scottish media will cover his tracks regardless of what he knows, thinks or says. He knows that.

    125. Jiggsbro says:

      What’s your goal here?
       
      You clearly didn’t read my last post, just as I will clearly not bother reading any more of yours.

    126. douglas clark says:

      Dear iainbrotherhood,
       
      I am getting a tad worried. We agree too much.

    127. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @douglas clark @ianbrotherhood
      How about
      Sciophobia Epidemic likely in Independent Scotland warns UK Department of Health  
      Independence causing Sciophobia 

    128. douglas clark says:

      Yesitis,
       
      Ré:
       
      “Doesn`t matter. The Scottish media will cover his tracks regardless of what he knows, thinks or says. He knows that.”
       
      Yes, the traditional media probably will.
       
      The point of this site and a lot like it is that they are a samizdat. This is the alternative viewpoint, this is where it is at. Never underestimate the underground. Unless it is, of course, Subway. 🙂
       
       

    129. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @Jiggsboro
      I did read your recent non-sequitor accusatory posts, and have tried on numerous occasions to bring reason to the fore; not passion, which is a poor basis for discussion.
      Now I tried to clear the air by emphasising my goal in the discussion, but you are sadly unable/unwilling to provide an answer to the same question
      “What’s your goal here?”
      So Checkmate.
       

    130. ianbrotherhood says:

       
      @AM-
       
      I’m up for anything which gets you and Jiggsbro back on speaking terms.

    131. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @douglas clark
      Like the idea of Unionist Sciophobic Twits.
      My take is that the BitterTogether campaign is based on the idea of introducing possible threats and dangers to make Scots afraid of their own shadows, so to speak. 
      Hence the idea of “Sciophobic Epidemic” which might provoke those Scots who react to the latest scaremongering tactic of Bitter Together, to realise that they are essentially being asked to be scared of their own shadow. 
      What do you think? Might it, or some variant, catch on?

    132. Albert Herring says:

      FFS Sciurophobia

    133. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @ianbrotherhood @Jiggsboro
      Good point. 
      Jiggsboro, I can say that our interaction has been productive for me, and I did learn quite a few things from you. Thanks for that. You may not be able to say the same from my side, but then I’m not a lawyer!
      How about a truce?

    134. douglas clark says:

      AM,
       
      How can you claim checkmate there? There seems to me to be an arguement still to be had.

    135. ianbrotherhood says:

      Cheers for doublegoodplus banter –
       
      Nytol!

    136. douglas clark says:

      Piss off with the Blairspeak. I do not ever anywhere at any time agree with you. Except when I do.
       
      It is a bit of a bugger.

    137. AmadeusMinkowski says:

      @douglas clark
      The larger battle of YES awaits. Just tweeted

      Amadues Minkowski@MinkowskiKelvin
      tweeted
      @YesScotland @NicolaSturgeon
      Sciophobia* Epidemic likely in Independent Scotland warns UK Govt.
      * Fear of Shadows
      Feel free to retweet, or make up some variants.
      Signing off now.
       
       

    138. douglas clark says:

      AM @ 1:36,
       
      That is cool.

    139. bunter says:

      Big headline in the scottish sun accusing roseanna cunningham of calling a spade a spade regards evil tories.
      Think the readership will think ”good on yer” lol

    140. Seasick Dave says:

      In all the kerfuffle over ‘Pet Lamb’ Calman, it has been assumed that the perpetrator has been an evil cyberNat, upset at the slagging his country was taking. 
       
      What if we have all been led up the garden path and it was actually a real Scot that did it?
       
      Cue scary music.

    141. Boorach says:

      @ Dave
       
      What if we have all been led up the garden path and it was actually areal Scot that did it?
       
      But What if it was actually areal Scot that should have done it but our Susan jumped the gun in her excited girly way and got the message out before the bait was laid? :-))

    142. Al Ghaf says:

      Any truth in the rumour that police have filed the evidence between, “positive case for the Union” and “Nessie”?

    143. The Man in the Jar says:

      I don’t know if it will work for everyone but BBC Scotland / Glasgow and West of Scotland has an on line survey regarding their website and content running just now.

    144. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Boorach
      Regarding all this “Real Scot” rubbish what annoys me is, if you are in Bitter Together and that makes you a “Real Scot” dose that not imply that if you intend to vote Yes in 2014 that you are not a “Real Scot”?

    145. Boorach says:

      @ TMITJ
       
      I’m as confused as the next man about it.
       
      Could be the bitter thegithers feel the need to stress their authenticity as they sell their country down the drain. Much as ‘Haw-Haw’ was a real Brit!!

    146. Boorach says:

      @TMITJ
       
      Wouldn’t let it get to you though…… we on the ‘yes’ side know, regardless of where we hail from, we are Scots who are doing their best for their country and by being honest to ourselves have no need to stress our nationality or patriotism every time we open our mouths.  😉

    147. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Boorach
      I don’t let it bother me it is just annoying. In fact everything that Bitter Together think, say or do annoys me. Bah! 🙁

    148. Patrick Roden says:

      How about refering to BT’s positive case for the union, as the ‘Nessie Prophecy’
       
      They keep telling us it’s there, so when will they produce evidence?
       

    149. Vronsky says:

      “I’m coming down with a severe case of Sciurophobia.”
       
      This should help.
       

    150. Boorach says:

      @ Patrick Roden
       
      Ah, but I KNOW nessie exists…… it’s pure coincidence that the reported sightings coincide with my sister having a swim! 🙂

    151. TYRAN says:

      BBC Scotland is acting like a ‘The Scotsman’ TV franchise outlet. i) report new juicy story on the like of Newsnight, Call Kaye et al, ii) turns out this story was mince, iii) don’t bother to report this new information, iv) go to point 1. The fact this happens with our national broadcaster is reason enough to vote yes.

    152. Stuart Black says:

      I got the call on a rainy monday…
      Business was uneasy…
      So I flipped open a pack of cigarettes…
      And considered the sitchooayshun…
      Was her daddy bad? (YES)
      Was it bullets for my baby? (no evidence provided so far)
      But there was one thing bothering me…
      Who was the (Cal)Man in the Jar?
       
      With humble apologies to the late and very great Alex Harvey.

    153. The Man in the Jar says:

      I knew this was the grand finale cause the hot city was to hot for Daisy. That was the name of the frail who ended in gaol leaving me as a patsy. Ah honey took my gun, 16 guys entered the elevator at the same time. That can only mean that I was the man in the jar!
      The Man in the Jar
      He Want to get out
      The Man in the Jar
      He smashing the glass
      He smashing the glass
      He want to get out
      He want to get out
      The man in the Jar
      He wana get out!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNiAY-AfaK4

    154. Laura says:

      I see this whole thing as another orchestrated BT smear campaign to undermine pro independence. (no surprise there!)

      If you put the boot on the other foot and instead of Calman, you had for example Frankie Boyle (discounting the fact that he is far too intelligent to act on hearsay etc) Would the MSM have run with the story with the same vigour? I think not, if at all.

      It’s all just a bit too weird for me – something doesn’t gel. BT gets another attack on the pro-indy supporters, Ms Calman raises her profile for good or bad, make no difference in show biz.

      The story has run for a couple of days now, still no proof? – given the publicity it has generated you would think Susan Calman would have made some further comment to that effect or if she had concerns that she had been used or manipulated by the media.

      If it turns out there is proof of death threats then I will offer her a personal apology but I have no time for faux outrage.

    155. Stuart Black says:

      Brother, I’m a telling a tale of a beautiful frail, whose Daddy was bad…
       
      LOL

    156. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Laura
      It is not at all weird. It is just another day in Indieland.

    157. Marcia says:

      A storm in a teaspoon designed to shut down debate. Cannot have the public hear the positive case for independence as people will vote for it.

    158. Mosstrooper says:

      I STILL don’t think she’s FUNNY.
      That’s it I’m off to the next posting

    159. john king says:

      “I don’t know if it will work for everyone but BBC Scotland / Glasgow and West of Scotland has an on line survey regarding their website and content running just now.”
      where is it? Im on there now but cant see it
        

    160. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      I thought of that but then the description “beautiful” didn’t work for some strange reason. 😉

    161. The Man in the Jar says:

      @John King
      It was a wee sort of pop up thingy!

    162. john king says:

      Ah dinnie think they want ma opinion cos am no getting a wee pop up thingy crivvens do they awriddy know whit am gonnie say de ye think?

    163. Stuart Black says:

      @Man in the Jar: Yes, it did occur to me that it wasn’t the most apt description of oor Daisy but, hey, what the hell…
       
      I want your user name by the way!

    164. Stuart Black says:

      @John King – I got the wee pop-up hing no bother, but it wouldn’t let me complete the survey as I am in Kazakhstan at the minute. Wee pop-up hing opens automatically when you open the BBC Scotland home page here http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/

    165. john king says:

      Stuart Black says:
      “I got the wee pop-up hing no bother”

      Still nothing, seems they don’t really want anyone’s opinion unless they are a bona fide labour supporter who doesnt come from Kazachstan, no surprises there then

    166. The Man in the Jar says:

      @John King
      Who you calling a bona fide labour supporter? 🙂
      I gave them my opinion. Both barrels!

    167. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      I was going to go with “Vambo Marble Eye” but a friend of mine beat me to it. He hardly posts these days and he wrote it wrong anyway. = Vambomarbleeye
      There is another indi commentator who I think comments on the Guardian and elsewhere under “The Mafia stole my guitar” some folk have spotted the link but it isnae me!

    168. Juteman says:

      @TMITJ
      I actually saw them live in the ’70’s. I was very ‘refreshed’, so the memory is a bit vague. I think it was at the old Apollo.

    169. Laura says:

      Mosstrooper
      I STILL don’t know who she is!
      Had to google her for a picture.

    170. Proadge says:

      The Calman episode has all the hallmarks of a British black propaganda exercise: alleged death threats and a ‘shit-storm of abuse’, for which the supposed target (a trained lawyer) has produced no evidence and which don’t seem to be the subject of a police investigation; the media, led by the state broadcaster, now in overdrive besmirching the pro-independence movement as extremist; and a very conveniently timed, high-profile speech attacking the SNP as ‘vicious’ from British Labour in Scotland’s propagandist-in-chief, Douglas Alexander (a man who ‘wants to end poverty not Britain’ – well, that went well in your 13 years at the top of UK government, didn’t it, Dougie.)
      The internet is the one media outlet that the British state hasn’t got sown up and it will be a priority of theirs over the next 500 days to neutralise the threat represented by pro-independence websites by demonising the ‘cybernats’ as much as possible.
       The whole Calman episode looks sinister – just not in the way the BBC and wee Dougie would have us believe. The British state has generations of practice of fighting dirty to deny colonised peoples self-determination and the suspicion is that in their battle to maintain Scotland’s subordinate place within the UK state, they’ve only just begun.

    171. Stuart Black says:

      @ Man in the Jar: I am mafiastolemyguitar on CiF, but I wish i’d thought of Man in the Jar when I joined a few years back…

    172. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Juteman
      I was at the famous Xmas concert 1974 at the Apollo in Glasgow. It is one of those gigs that if a quarter of the people that claim to have been there actually were then the building would have collapsed under the weight. Yes very refreshing indeed!

    173. Stuart Black says:

      @TMITJ: Saw them two or three times at the Apollo, once in Embra, and once at Knebworth when the Allman’s headlined.
       
      Utterly, utterly awesome, the best band to come out of Scotland – in my humble opinion ( i’m sure that’ll set the cat amongst the pigeons!)

    174. The Man in the Jar says:

      Stuart Black
       
      So you are mafiastolemyguitar!
       
      I thought about Sgt. Fury (I am an ex army Sgt. so I thought it a bit much) then “The Faith Healer” but that might be misconstrued as religious. The “wana get out” bit did it for me!

    175. Stuart Black says:

      @TMITJ: So you are mafiastolemyguitar!
       
      I cannot tell a lie, I am indeed he. I don’t quite know why I didn’t carry on using it as opposed to my real name when I discovered Wings.
      And yes, I love the “wanna get out, he’s smashing the glass” bit; an amazing song, amongst many amazing songs.

    176. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      I knew them when they were still “Teargas” and they used to drink in “The Burns Howf” in West George Street. Same time as Frankie Millar, Maggie Bell etc. Now that was a pub!

    177. Stuart Black says:

      @TMITJ: Yes, I remember the Howff, happy days. Tear Gas were reputed to be the loudest band in Glasgow I believe, never mind loud they were great, Zal is still one of the guitar players I most like to listen to – on an almost daily basis!

    178. Juteman says:

      It wasn’t an Xmas concert. I would have remembered that. I think. 🙂
      We travelled through from Dundee in a van full of booze. I was underage, so sat in the van whilst the older folk went to the pub. Myself and 2 other underagers helped ourselves to the vans contents.
      Memories, eh? Or not!

    179. The Man in the Jar says:

      In honour of a certain political party’s rise to fame I am playing the live version of “Framed” from the “British tour 76” album. It is the Hitler version.
      “I was walking down the street minding my own affair
      When two storm troopers caught me unaware
      Is your name Adolph?
      I said why sure
      And they said
      You’re the kid that we’ve been looking for!”
      mlprecords [at] hotmail [dot] com

    180. muttley79 says:

      @Proadge
       
       
      The Calman episode has all the hallmarks of a British black propaganda exercise: alleged death threats and a ‘shit-storm of abuse’, for which the supposed target (a trained lawyer) has produced no evidence and which don’t seem to be the subject of a police investigation; the media, led by the state broadcaster, now in overdrive besmirching the pro-independence movement as extremist; and a very conveniently timed, high-profile speech attacking the SNP as ‘vicious’ from British Labour in Scotland’s propagandist-in-chief, Douglas Alexander (a man who ‘wants to end poverty not Britain’ – well, that went well in your 13 years at the top of UK government, didn’t it, Dougie.)
      The internet is the one media outlet that the British state hasn’t got sown up and it will be a priority of theirs over the next 500 days to neutralise the threat represented by pro-independence websites by demonising the ‘cybernats’ as much as possible.
       The whole Calman episode looks sinister – just not in the way the BBC and wee Dougie would have us believe. The British state has generations of practice of fighting dirty to deny colonised peoples self-determination and the suspicion is that in their battle to maintain Scotland’s subordinate place within the UK state, they’ve only just begun.
       
      It looks increasingly like the way you have described it here.  Incidentally, the mention of the said Douglas Alexander got me thinking.  It is well known that both Alexanders were elevated through SLAB’s ranks by the patronage of leading figures (in Douglas’ case through Gordon Brown, and in Wendy’s case by Donald Dewar.  Their father was well connected in SLAB.)  That said, what has Douglas Alexander in particular done with his career?  I can’t remember anything memorable or profound he has said, I don’t recall any personal legislative achievements, he appears to have no vision, or discernible principles.  Alexander will happily take British Labour further and further to the right, just as he did when Blair and Brown called the shots.  In conclusion, Douglas Alexander is a prototype of the career politician, and I pity the MSM, and other SLAB members for having to unquestioningly back up and support this person.   

    181. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Juteman
      We circled the block several times partaking in many “Jazz Cigarettes” before going in
      . Without any doubt the best night of my life bar none!

    182. Juteman says:

      @TMITJ
      We were poor Dundonians. We made do with some mushies. 🙂

    183. Stuart Black says:

      @TMITJ: The last Apollo gig I saw was around the time of the Impossible Dream, and alongside the old favourites, Faith Healer, Vambo, Midnight Moses, etc, they did Dancing Cheek to Cheek, complete with very tall blonde, bee-hived dancers in long pink gowns, the said gowns found to be backless when they shimmied round halfway through the song, giving Alex the chance to really dance cheek to cheek. That was also the first time I saw them perform Anthem, complete with dry ice and pipers in full regalia. The best gig I was ever at, apart from the other SAHB gigs i’ve been to. Not sure of the date though.

    184. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      Sounds very like the same concert that I was at. The Xmas concert was a “thank you” for the fans. SAHB had just returned from a highly successful tour of the USA and the Apollo was full to capacity. All the members of the group’s families were seated in the “Boxes”. The concert went on for about 2&1/2 hours. In the end security had to drag Alex off stage as the Polis were getting anxious as to how everybody would get home. (1974 the busses stooped around 10:30 p.m.!)
      Aye they don’t make them like that anymore.

    185. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Proadge
      I disagree about the British black propaganda aspect. I think that they would have made a much better job of it. Possibly some wanabee spook in BTHQ though.

    186. Taranaich says:

      ‘All of us here in Scotland – whatever our party affiliations and whatever our views on the referendum – should condemn unequivocally statements and actions that poison the well of public debate and demand a different and better conversation ahead of Scotland’s choice.’
       
      Couldn’t agree more, Mr. Alexander. I look forward to your thorough and unequivocal denouncement of the threats made against pro-independence supporters and abuse hurled against elected SNP officials. And I trust you will do that, because if you don’t, you will resemble the most craven and despicable of hypocrites, and the informed public of Scotland will, as you say, make up their minds.

    187. Stuart Black says:

      @Taranaich: Perhaps Mr. Alexander could get the ball rolling by sharing his thoughts on these.
       
      http://wingsoverscotland.com/those-vile-cybernats/
       
      Strangely enough, in the alternate universe that I obviously inhabit, BBC Scotland had nothing at all, at all, to say about these. Can you even begin to imagine the mayhem that would be let loose across the nation if these had come from an independent source? No, me neither.

    188. Stuart Black says:

      But heaven forfend, no bias, the charter forbids it…

    189. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      Check out the BBC link that I just posted on the “Small is beutiful” article.

    190. Laura says:

      Man in the Jar & Stuart Black

      Your comments on SAHB got me thinking on just how much amazing musical talent Scotland has produced over the years. Not bad at all for a country with a population of only 5m.

      Rock on Scotland!

    191. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Stuart Black
      I don’t know if you will catch this or not but where (approximately) do you live when not in Kazakhstan?
      I am in Bothwell.

    192. The Man in the Jar says:

      @Laura
      It would be a very long list!



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