Yet another metaphor
Posted on
February 26, 2018 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
…for the relationship between the four “partner” nations of the UK presented itself at the weekend when BBC anchorman John Inverdale asked the Scottish rugby pundit and former international Andy Nicol “what does this do for self-belief from a Scottish perspective, Andy?”
Which was clearly pretty ironic in itself:
But alert readers may recall how that “epitome of Better Together” worked out.
Admittedly it’s not quite up there in the comedy stakes with “No means we stay in, we are members of the European Union”, or “I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if we vote to stay”, or the classic “lead us, Scotland, don’t leave us”:
But it’s illuminating all the same.
And yet, most of one of the constituent parts of the Lions don’t think they are Better Together in a political context.
Some folk never learn, but we can live in hope that “they’ll ” finally see past their rugby bubble.
Evenin the “rugby bubble” it was always bollocks anyway. The Republic of Ireland is a part of the Lions – The British and Irish Lions – so these two public school twats were talking out of their arses.
Mind you, it wouldn’t bother me if an independent Scotland took nothing to do with it.
…some are more equal than others in this “partnership”
OR as some proud Scotsbuts would put it “…I look up to him but I look down on him”
I wonder how New Zealand could ever be successful at rugby!
Playing for Scotland is a hobby for these guys.
Pretend patriots.
Cringing custodians of cowardice.
In the brexit article, Lidington seems to be saying how bad it will be to make trade deals without all things Scottish to trade with.
Sort of suggests the exact reason we want out.
They need us, they really need us, but only when they really really need us.
They need all things we pride ourselves on, fishing, oil, whisky, agriculture etc etc etc, then they can do deals.
They can GTF. It is time we do our own thing and that will be a world away from Westminster ideology.
That Irish part of the Lions? Its the united Irish part, and its an independent nation – in the EU, not like Wangland!
Scotland will be like Eire, but better, like a Scandanavian version – sortof half Gael, half Nord.
And mostly 10x better than Wangland for society.
No wonder they seldom won. They lack faith,belief and confidence. You must have these qualities before you can succeed at anything. If you cannot believe in yourself in the face of adversity,what can you believe in ?.
Mibbee wrong but I thought some of the ‘newbies’ came across as a wee bit more Scottish than their predecessors like the Hastings ‘sisters’ Andy Nicol and big BBC Beattie and some others from that period.
Live in hope.
@Clootie
If a kilted Kiwi might opine: originally it was due to rugged settler farmer types. Then because it became NZ’s main winter sport, played by and in all schools across the socio-economic spectrum. Then there’s the Polynesian element, naturally muscular physiques and reasonably quick, warlike tribal culture also meshed with rugby. There is still a Maori rugby league in the North Island. Maori took to rugby like ducks to water. Then Pacific Island immigration added more such as certain giant, quick Tongans wont to run over hapless English at World Cups (I never tire of watching that on YT).
There was an economic study which showed that when the All Blacks lose productivity in NZ measurably increases for a time. The country works harder, which is the response to defeat. But it shows how much the fortunes of the AB’s is tied into the national psyche.
Can you imagine what Scottish productivity would be if we reacted the same when the Scotland Fitba squad lost? 😉
How many of these sports personalities/celebrities have changed their minds in the last three years?
Even without pointed articles showing how untenable their previous position is they must be aware of the disaster unfolding for us, and that all things Scottish are now in serious peril.
Lidington is just another faceless bureaucrat who will try to frighten some undecideds who don’t know any better. We’re ready for them. There’s a lot of s***t to hit the fan yet.
Not so long ago, it was still ‘The British Lions’in the UK media, decades after the formation of the Irish Free State, and then the Republic. I can’t remember when ‘British and Irish’ suddenly became the term, but the change can only occurred because the Irish were threatening to withdraw from the setup.
The tours of this ad hoc squad are, of course, of primary importance to England, and its sense of greatness and prestige. As within England ‘British’ and ‘English’ are interchangeable, this is one of the ways in which the concept is made known to the wider world. It must have been galling when the Irish flagged up their refusal to help any more.
Sports people play whatever their sport is for money and career opportunities or just feed their family, there might be the odd one or two who have other National reasons but I’d bet not many and that’s the very reason they should be careful what comes out of their mouths
Look at Andy Murray he had to keep his mouth shut for a long time to avoid the flak and still does most of the time and I believe him to be a man of principles, but who wants to be hated by one side or the other
Sports people are behaving like politicians now saying one thing and doing another then trying to justify their position when all the time if they had real principles they would just admit they’re doing it for however much money or honours they can get
Nobody would care what they thought if they weren’t famous but being a *celebrity* these days sticks a label on them whether they want it or not
If some young footballer at say Ayr United declared a preference to a political stance nobody would give a monkeys but when you’re famous the media want to create controversy using the famous to do it for them because that’s what the media do which makes the media worse than anybodies point of view on anything
What’s a promise worth to Westminster’s political class and its advocates? That image of the UK going forward from 2014 looks a wee bit tarnished by this point. Well, I say tarnished. Probably more accurate to say the image has been used as a Tory’s bum wipe then dragged through a sewage works to finish the job. Wonder if those who advocated retaining political union from last time round are feeling the same love as the rest of us, or whether theirs is different and special?
Just to remind some people though. An indyref is about who is best placed to govern and care for your needs and aspirations. It’s about a population having a government that answerable to them and a government that provides a duty of care toward that population.
So, does anyone really feel that UK gov is spreading the lurve around right now?
To Giving Goose …
Don’t so hasty in suspecting international rugby players of being ‘pretendy patriots’.
Fair comment on some, you could say. But I remember that gathering of ex-internationalists for ‘No’ outside Murrayfield in 2014, and it was small, considering how many internationalists are still alive. Maybe 5%? And you can bet that the organisers of the little gathering had contacted every one they could.
As far as the EU goes it’ll be the same requirement for constitutional legality in submitting the A50 letter that’ll be tripping them up.
The legality is that Westminster has no longer has any jurisdiction over areas exempted from “devolved” control because of the UK’s membership of the EU.
As far as the EU, and perhaps others, will be concerned any deals negotiated on without Holyrood’s consent in those areas will be the reminiscent of the Billy Connolly joke about selling a house you’re renting.
In other words any such deal wouldn’t be in good faith and subject to legal challenge.
So, the ultimate accolade, the big dream of a proud Scottish professional rugby player is to play for the British Lions?
Most players just want to play for their country. Imagine singing FoS in front of the crowds and lying awake every night imagining you might get a game for the Lions. Mega Cringe.
Typical house scots – priority is to please the imperial masters. Good luck with that one!
Speaks volumes, certainly does.
We get the message, Messers Hastings and Nicol. 🙂
Not so sure that Johnnie Beattie is a Brit nat, as several times now, Ive heard him refer to independence with what sounded to me in a positive way.
If the current rugby squad want to be able to hold their heads high OFF THE PITCH, instead of hiding behind faux corporations and institutions, they should not abuse the ONLY nation that supports them.
Is Andy Nicol still waiting for his honours?
His years as Scotland’s Captain cancelled out by UK greed and hippocracy.
Dont think the current team are all yoons 🙂
https://www.facebook.com/glove39/videos/2008054272543311/
Ah, the game of rugby, named after an English public school, and the RFU formed later in a Pall Mall restaurant, is a proxy for the jingoistic English class system – a bit like 50% of Olympic medals won by the privately schooled even though 7% attend such.
Do you think it’s much different in Scotland – if you do dream on
No Scots in the British Lions; I think they’re all more or less accepting that Scotland, pretty soon, will no longer be British.
“Oh, the jocks? They’re leaving England”..
Alex McLeish should make a pro-indy statement asap, I mean, not as if it’ll cost him his job? Besides, he had no job prior to this appointment and – nothing to lose – it’ll get a big slice of Scots behind the team.
Guess what, David, John Beattie was privately schooled !
O/T however Sky news correspondent reporting on Hillington Devo speech has spoken to “ Scotland FM David Mundell” . I hope that TM has informed NS that she is to be “ deposed” aka
Sky “ slip of the tongue” . The future Tory view of “ devolution” ? Subservience to Westminster and appointments to be made via patronage and “ serving tea and shortbread” to your “ betters”. ( stuff Scottish “ democracy” ) . Direct rule from London is the Tory objective post Brexit.
Luigi
irrespective of the politics thing, I am not quite sure that you “get” the whole British & Irish Lions thing.
Of course all players aspire to be chosen to play for their country. To be singled out as best fly half or Number 8 and to represent your country is a huge honour. In addition though, to be selected for the Lions and then to picked to play as the best fly half or number 8 in the whole of Britain and Ireland is another honour. Most players that play for the Lions are also judged to be the best in their respective country – but not always. In the last Lions tour, Jamie George (of England as it happens) was first choice for the Lions – but second choice for ENgland.
Given the very nature and ethos of the Lions, I can see no difficulties in continuing exactly as we are, irrespective of whether SCotland, or indeed any other of the Home nations was independent or not.
Just on a point of accuracy to another commenter above, the likes of Gavin Hastings were not playing for the “money”. They played in the amateur era.
Hey Sensible – just for you (oh, and the missus):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nox57hdgeAU
I remember that ratbag Hastings on an independence debate on TV telling all us plebs that in times of Tory austerity we all had to “tighten our belts”.
Toffy-nosed Twat that he is
Thanks for that Rev, the selection of only 2 Scots for the whole squad when Scotland were 5th at the time and had climbed up the world rankings with a good performance in those 6 Nations, whereas practically the whole Welsh team had been picked in spite of DROPPING in the world rankings, clearly had nothing to do with Warren Gatland being coach of both Wales and the British and Irish Lions.
Nothing at all.
Yeah, the clue in Indy Ref 1 was the “British and Irish Lions”, the Irish is all Ireland not just the North, all it would need with Independence is to make it “British, Irish and Scottish Lions”, and as Robert Peffers would say, even that’s not needed.
@Lenny Hartley
Ironically, the “w@nker” shout came from a certain Mr Hastings junior (son of gavin)
Let’s not kid ourselves…
The vast majority of Scottish rugby players, supporters and their organisation are Unionist to their core.
80 minute patriots the lot of them…especially Beattie.
Referencing the telegraph article, how is it that a part of the UK which seems to have nothing to offer (and apparently sponges of the English tax payer) have any effect on a trade deal.
Surely jettisoning the ‘loss making’ part of the UK would make England wealthier?
Amateur era, that’ll be the time they were getting paid before the public were told they were getting paid then
I’m 69 I remember when they didn’t get paid I was about 8 then the revelations became public about how the sports bodies had to fiddle the expenses to make it look like they were amateurs
O/T Bbc website allowing comment on minimum pricing of alchol and the yoons are out in force.They appear to dislike SNP policies.It is making them froth at the mouth.
@Lenny Hartley
The two are ones I had marked, also Hogg, but there are others from what they’ve said at times.
Proud men of the Region !
ScottieDog says:
It always struck me as an odd strategy … paint Scotland as a burden, and yet at the same time doing everything to hang on to their grip.
I can only assume the ‘burden’ aspect is aimed primarily at keeping Scots, who are gullible enough to believe that, clinging to the Union. Hard core Scottish BritNats are committed to the UK, but many NO voters made their decision based on fears of an impoverished iScotland.
However, the message was absorbed by the gullible throughout the UK!
By painting Scotland as a costly millstone, they leave themselves open to a backlash at some point where the English public are demanding we be dumped!
O / T Corbyn’s EU speech debunked by KIrsty Hughes
Jeremy Corbyn’s speech on Brexit has opened up, finally, a clear distinction between Conservative and Labour policies on Brexit. The UK government is committed to an independent trade policy after Brexit, Labour is now committed to a comprehensive customs union with the EU.
Beyond that much of Labour’s deliberate ambiguity of the last year and more remains: Labour wants all the benefits of the EU’s single market but without being in it and with exemptions from some of the rules. Those who think this speech shifts Labour towards the possibility of supporting ‘remain’ and a further EU referendum are indulging in wishful-thinking.
Worth a read https://www.scer.scot/database/ident-5236
“Let’s not kid ourselves…
The vast majority of Scottish rugby players, supporters and their organisation are Unionist to their core.”
Crap.
If you haven’t heard David Lidingtons speech yet you’re in for a treat of high pitched whiny weasly greetin faced miserable attempts at trying to pull off the most pathetic bunch of lies and promises you’ve ever heard
VOW 2 goes a bit like this, Gonnae listen tae us please gonnae eh gonnae
we really want tae threaten you but we’ve got Nuthin please Scotland please or or sumthin right
The “Liddington cringe” playbook…”sum of our parts makes us stronger”…aye..ok then ya fandang.
English Votes For English Laws must be how you achieve that claim, aye ???
What planet are these clowns on !!
Interesting article in The National
Nicola Sturgeon describes celebrating with Scotland team after Calcutta Cup victory
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16048365.Nicola_Sturgeon_describes_celebrating_with_Scotland_team_after_Calcutta_Cup_victory/
““But I think it leads to a general feel-good atmosphere across the country.”
She’s a cutie, focussed on the objective.
Sinky says:
It is, thanks.
On WoS twitter was a tweet this morning …
” Kristian Niemietz @K_Niemietz
Stay in the Customs Union, leave the Single Market. That’s like throwing away the burger, and eating the paper it was wrapped in. “
Also, from Stephen Gethins, the SNP Europe spokeman.
” Jeremy Corbyn needs to go further if he is serious about protecting the UK’s economy and jobs as the UK leaves the EU … The softening in stance is a step in the right direction, however, time is running out – it’s time for Labour to get on board with opposition parties in Westminster to work together to bring a halt to the UK government’s disastrous Brexit plans. “
…and …
” NicolaSturgeon @NicolaSturgeon
I welcome any Labour movement in right direction but, tbh, it still sounds very similar to the ‘have cake and eat it’ approach of PM. Why Labour doesn’t just embrace a single market/CU outcome in full is beyond me. “
Customs Union alone, is still a hard Brexit!
Cybie 1.23
Haha Cybie, You seem obsessed with the long standing love affair between me and the ever fragrant mrs sensible.
Mrs Sensible has helped a number of people that are unable to hold down a relationship (ring any bells?), are unattractive (ring any bells?) and have a body odour problem (ring any bells?) … would you like her to have a word with you?
Cybie, Is this really the level of debate you want?
Indyref2-have you attended many games at Murrayfield? It’s like a unionist/better together rally. Full of Farquhars and Cressidas. I can’t speak for the players, although laidlaw and russell probably contributed to our defeat by the islanders in the summer after abandoning Scotland to head to the lions rescue n NZ (not even getting a game)
@Joemcg
I used to when I lived through in Edinburgh. If the two you mentioned are yoons I’ll eat their post-match rugby shorts.
@Kevin
Eck Mcleish was a proud VOTE NO chanter in the last referendum…cant see his changing his mind whilst counting his EBT profits.
As for forlk berating Liddington…the guy has came out and made a statement that basically said “We must ensure that there will be no more referendums”.
Anyone who reads that and thinks “Westminster cant do that to us!” should take a look at Catalonia just now, that’s our future..AT BEST…unless we get our act together and set a date.
While we wait, the Tory crew are devising ever more ways of turning Holyrood into a shadow of itself.
I agree on that point. I’d be shocked if those two were yoons. Hopefully Hogg is one of the good guys too.
Dr.Jim.
Agree with you. All four “nations” to take their rules from EU and use them in their devolution activities. Didn’t hear that WM would NEVER interfere with the other three “parliaments” if it didn’t like their actions!
Cybie, Is this really the level of debate you want?
Since anything and everything you write here has hee-haw to do with debate, pal, I’ll just have tae stoop down to your level of pish here.
One more time – for you and the missus (can’t have her feeling left oot noo can wee, if you catch my drift, LOLZ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nox57hdgeAU
“Alex McLeish should make a pro-indy statement asap, I mean, not as if it’ll cost him his job? Besides, he had no job prior to this appointment and – nothing to lose – it’ll get a big slice of Scots behind the team.”
That would be good, Kevin, but given he was a much-publicised No last time, along with the usual Rangers contingent, I would think it unlikely. Still, repentant sinners will always be welcomed in our Scottish heaven.
We also have that strangest No-voting beast, the Scots of Irish Republican background, who simply can’t wait to wreath themselves in the Butcher’s Apron, e.g. Michael Kelly, John Reid and Brian Wilson and some “Celtic-minded” footballers.
Quite bizarre, really.
Had a quick squint at “The Scottish Field!” while loitering at my local Coop. This months edition features Alan Titchmarsh on why I love Scotland. James Martin shoving his oar shortly (can’t wait) and even Cochers has a piece on (nae idea). Shetland Independence featured last month & “Why the Scots are not Celts?” is this issue’s highlight! Who the fuck buys this Brigadoonery noo’adays?
@ Dr Jim says
Did you know that posh Tory boy David Lidington was educated at the same expensive fee paying school as Lord George Foulkes namely Haberdashers’ Aske’s Boys’ School.
There are very many reasons why we do not want his uniform UK system with a Tory Trump Trade deal not to mention the prospect of a universal Union Jack food packaging regime.
Struggling to see any real difference between Labour and Tory Brexit position beyond just rhetoric.
One wants access to the customs union without being an EU member and the ability to make own trade deals, the other wants access to customs union without being an EU member but wants to influence EU trade deals.
Both look like pie in the sky stuff, EU probably at this moment shaking their heads and laughing.
Proud Cybernat
I have decided that I will no longer consider you as part of my flock that can benefit from my ability to educate and inform – and will therefore not be responding to to your very childish bile in future.
Give it up Cybie, you are embarrassing yourself, “normal” Wingers … and the very cause you allegedly pretend to promote.
@Joemcg
Yes I think so. There’s a different way people have of putting things, not completely reliable but an indicator. There’s a few others I noticed, can’t remember who though.
@sensibledave: “my ability to educate and inform”
You’re a good laugh SD, whatever they say about you!
Aye he can get the flock outa here
yesindyref2
You wrote “You’re a good laugh SD”
Teaching and learning is so much easier and more successful … if I make it fun for the class!
Sensibledave = ignorant British Nationalist troll.
I know – rugby is extremely important, particularly to those who have attended fee-paying schools. But so is fracking, particularly to those who attended the same schools.
Ineos have won a right to appeal the Scottish Governments fracking ban. Ineos says the ban is an infringement of their human rights. On the Ineos website this is their own description of what they do. “We produce the raw materials that are essential in the manufacture of a wide variety of goods. Our products make a significant contribution to saving life, improving health and enhancing standards of living for people around the world.”
Both Scottish Rugby and Ineos are not interested in Scottish Independence.
…and will therefore not be responding to to your very childish bile in future.
Says the BritNat troll as if he thinks I give an actual fuck what he has to say here. I’m no’ here to haver a debate wi’ yae, BritNat troll – I’m here tae fuck wi’ yer heid.
If you don’t like it, BritNat troll, well you can just get yerself tae fuck. Your pish is convincing precisely no one here.
ONE MORE TIME for Sensible D and his, er, Missus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nox57hdgeAU
LOLZIES xx
Cubby 3.08
How long did it take you to come up with that devastating, witty and totally original one liner Cubby?
I can see that you are very, very clever and certainly a big contender in this year’s “Wings Over Scotland Satire Awards”. tee hee! Maybe you and and Proud Cybernat should form a double act … Cubby and Chubby?
Saturday February 24th. 2018. Glenrothes.
Bridges for Indy
http://www.frogesque.com/bfi24feb18/06.jpg
Love the way the Satire in the sky put in an appearance!
The future is bright
The future is blue and white!
@Sensible dave,
The mediocre teacher tells his students
The good teacher explains to his students
The great teacher inspires his students.
Sadly,you are in the first group.
Sorry, a bit late to this one and apologies if it has already been covered but, what the **** are the SRU doing allowing Murrayfield to be used for political stunts (yes that says stunts!)?
What about the normal position that politics should play no part in sport!!!
Shower of illegitimates.
Bob Mack 3.34
Am I missing something? Is there some competition going on today for the most unfunny, least wittiest, dumbest comment Bob?
… ’cause you just pulled level with Cubby and Chubby (nat).
Simply be changed to “The British , Irish and Scottish Lions” or Bias for short! It’s not true that Rugby players are more intelligent than footballers if they couldn’t work that one out.
Not only that N Eire and Eire combine as one team in Rugby and both are in the Lions but the Irish and Welsh would help kick out the Scots. Unless as Nicoll subconsciously suggests England is deciding who gets in the Lions.
Finally I couldn’t give a horses fart about the Lions anyway. It’s Scotland for me…
Hey Sensible – your missus and your best pal last week? I’d be asking questions.
Just sayin’.
Josep Guardiola boldly puts his neck on the line over the political situation in his native Catalunya.
Scottish sports ‘personalities’ need changes of underwear at the very thought of their country becoming a mature, representative, responsible sovereign democracy.
Really stretches ones tolerance of these ‘political antiques’.
@Sensible dave,
You prove my point yet again. No apple for you.
Why argue about who said what in 2014?
Why argue with windup toys?
Our future is in converting 5+% NO to YES.
All feet are different, it’s the journey that counts!
Some mentions of Scottish Rugby on this thread. Please therefore allow me to educate those who know little or nothing about egg chasing.
The British Lions were known thus because the official title of the touring group was the British Isles Touring Team, that name reflected they represented all the islands in the British Isles archepeligo, not just Great Britain – the big island, but also Ireland.
The attendance at Murrayfield is often referred to as the biggest sporting old school reunion in the world, given the influence a small number of schools: The Academy, Fettes, Loretto, Stewart’s-Melville, Heriot’s, Watson’s and Merchiston in Einburgh; the Academy, Kelvinside, High School and Hutcheson’s in Glasgow and the likes of Strathallan and Glenalmond, Dundee High School, Dollar Academy and Robert Gordon’s College from elsewhere have in Scottish Rugby.
These are all private, fee-paying schools, “minor public schools” if you like, therefore, more-likely to attract and produce Better Together supporters.
There is also a substantial farming presence in Scottish Rugby – Tories almost to a man or woman.
I cannot speak for Greig Laidlaw and Finn Russell, however, next seeason, both of these players will be living and playing in France, thus, arguably, showing a preference for continued ties with Europe.
I have been reliably informed by a friend who was on several Lions’ tours – within the travelling group the reference is that it contains, Irishmen, Scotsmen, Welshmen and representatives of the Common Enemy.
Much of the Lions togetherness stems from the determination of the Celtic Unions, that England shall never be allowed to dominate it.
I believe the last British Lions side had no Scots anyway.
Someone up at the top of the thread christened these britnat psb “Scottish” rugby types as “cringing custodians of cowardice”.
I hope that phrase gets spread around far and wide via Twitter, FB etc etc in relation to well known proudscotbuts in general, gets slapped on them and sticks to them like glue.
O/T I see there’s a prog on bbc tonight about Are Scotland’s trains fit for the 21st century?
I won’t be watching it, even I’ve got more sense than that, but who’d bet the house that it’ll be the same old same old hatchet job with the usual carefully selected parade of cretins moaning about how the trains are crap and the snp’s so crap they can’t even run a train set bla bla bla.
My point is that whenever I’ve used trains in Scotland I don’t recall there ever being any delays, significant problems or anything. There must be sometimes, it’s inevitable anywhere, but if it was a noticeably poor service overall then I’d have noticed and so would everyone else who uses them.
Even if I knew nothing about the bbc or the snp or anything but did use trains I’m pretty sure that if I was daft enough to sit down and watch it I’d contrast my own direct experience of it with the constant barrage of negativity that the programme is most likely to be pushing about train services in Scotland (and of course by extension anything else “Scottish”) and sooner or later come to the conclusion that the bbc is lying.
Of course this might be one of those rare times when they feel obliged to let a semblance of truth get through and so may let a few positive comments be aired, basically so they can point to how unbiased they are, but otherwise I wouldn’t advise any extensive holding of breath.
Any one still paying the bbc propaganda tax is a “cringing custodian of cowardice”.
Cybie 3.42
… I guess you didn’t quite spot the irony in your previous comment where you wrote ….
“says the BritNat troll as if he thinks I give an actual fuck what he has to say here. I’m no’ here to haver a debate wi’ yae, BritNat troll – I’m here tae fuck wi’ yer heid. If you don’t like it, BritNat troll, well you can just get yerself tae fuck. Your pish is convincing precisely no one here.
… Haha! … good to see that you weren’t getting shouty and wound up! You have had the equivalent of a 5 – 0 thrashing and, unbelievably, you still haven’t noticed. Priceless. Come on Chubby, give me both barrels!
@sensibledave said
‘Who are the British Nationalists Dakk? How many of them are there? ‘
OT from your question on the last thread.
They are the electorate of the UK who buy into the ‘British’ State and with their voting habits ensure the continuance of same.You do say you believe in democracy.
I’ve no idea how many there are.What’s it to you how many there are?
Enough, to ensure it’s continuance(for now), as we both know.
Every Scot should be made aware of the success of Ireland over recent decades
http://www.rt.com/shows/alex-salmond-show/419539-taoiseach-bertieahern-interview/
There is no partnership of four nations in either The United Kingdom or the Countries of Britain.
The United Kingdom should properly be described as, “The United Kingdoms”, and there are but two of those Kingdoms.
As for countries of Britain there are four countries inside the United Kingdom and three of those are English Kingdom countries.
However the Country of Ireland is partitioned and there are another three countries that are crown dependencies that are not governed by Westminster.
frogesque says:
I can’t wait for the starting gun! I have the feeling it will be soon.
I can’t help but being amused by the situation as it stands – there has been a deluge of anti Indy anti Scottish propaganda, no pro Indy campaign to talk of, and we will still start from a very healthy position!
All the BritNat efforts to retain their Union have been negated by their own callous abuse of that Union. They have set up a series of constitutionally incompatibles situations. They work so hard on a daily basis to bring the end of the UK ever closer.
Just wait until we get started too! 🙂
Referendum1707 4:02 pm
Whilst I have no view on whether Scotland should become independent or not, I do find it interesting the way some Wingers go about “canvassing” for additional support to get it over the line ….
You wrote “Someone up at the top of the thread christened these britnat psb “Scottish” rugby types as “cringing custodians of cowardice”.(in relation to well known proudscotbuts in general, gets slapped on them and sticks to them like glue.)”
Two things. Do you think people are “persuaded” by that type of canvassing? And, secondly, would you have the guts to say it to their faces given the opportunity? (given your opinion as to their innate “cowardice”). I am sure there is a rugby club nearby to you … please go and give it a try and do let us know how you get on (I believe they have wi-fi in the infirmary these days).
Dakk
You wrote “They are the electorate of the UK who buy into the ‘British’ State and with their voting habits ensure the continuance of same.You do say you believe in democracy.”
… just so I know, in England, which party should a voter have voted for … that wouldn’t have met with your ire?
I have hardly been on a train of any kind, far less a Scotrail service since I qualified for the bus pass, but, when I was working I was a regular train user on my one hour each-way daily commute.
Of course, from the third stop out in the inward morning commute, and for the same distance back in the evening, there would be people standing, but, that never bothered me, or to be fair, the several regulars from those stations who would occasionally be forced to stand.
The service was good, the trains clean and the time-keeping excellent. One of my grandsons now makes the same commute as I once did, and he tells me, there are still people standing, but, nobody whinges much.
It’s a good service, of course, we always want better, but, compared to the conditions in the Sudentenland commuter tains, we have very little to moan about up here – and a far-better service.
Your drooling on your cardigan Dave. Go clean up
@galamcennalath 4.15
No need to wait for the starting gun. Every day is a training day so whatever your sphere, do the unthanked, unseen gruntwork.
No one wins a race by just turning up. Refine the arguements, know your facts, home it sharp and keep it simple.
Folk respond to positivity, they may be wavering and if you can show them a way forward they will support you.
Come the day, we’ll be fit and ready. Don’t expect everyone to run beside you but if they cheer you on the victory will be theirs as much as yours.
I think the time is near and it won’t be a marathon. Be ready to go at a moment’s notice.
Frogesque says:
“The future is bright
The future is blue and white!”
——————
I say:
We are blue, we are white.
We are Scottish dynamite. 🙂
Someone please light the fuse…..
Did you know that after the FM and Princess Anne had left the Scottish Rugby Players dressing room JK Rowling sneaked in
I would welcome anyone, snp, conservative, labour, libdem, Green, bikers, English, women, gender indeterminate, infact, everyone
FOR YES.
No one group “owns” Indy, we all do so let the naysayers rant as we compose our posts, tramp the streets, attend rallies, build bridges or do our thing.
Every onlooker is a potential YES voter. Please don’t alienate, convince and convert instead. No Nation has a right to exist, every Nation has had to fight for it, sometimes with very bloody results. We are lucky, we still have the ballot box but maybe not for much longer.
Westminster will fight dirty, be prepared!
Robert Peffers @ 4.12
Do you by any chance know,(sorry if ye have explained before and I’ve missed it) what being in a “Crown Dependency” means in practical terms for the people who live there.
I mean if they are self governing what’s the point?
Peffers
You wrote “There is no partnership of four nations in either The United Kingdom or the Countries of Britain.
The United Kingdom should properly be described as, “The United Kingdoms”, and there are but two of those Kingdoms.
As for countries of Britain there are four countries inside the United Kingdom and three of those are English Kingdom countries.
However the Country of Ireland is partitioned and there are another three countries that are crown dependencies that are not governed by Westminster.
…. we are hugely grateful to you Mr Peffers.
Congratulations on the much abbreviated version of the 300 year history lesson that usually has us so enthralled. I liked it so much better, back in the day, when boundaries and laws were set by vicious and vindictive kings, queens, lairds, etc back then. Much better than this “power to the people”, “democracy” malarkey we have now. Forget about such things as referenda, ….lets have one person, by accident of birth, decide what is good for us all, eh Robert!
… you couldn’t make it up!
sensibledave says:
26 February, 2018 at 4:17 pm
Referendum1707 4:02 pm
Whilst I have no view on whether Scotland should become independent or not
That’s a bare faced lie sensible d.
Is there anything a toryboy wont lie about sensible?
Its like its in your DNA, lie, lie, lie…throw tantrum!
@Graph Midgehunter 4.29
You mean like this?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQ4dE_RGnQ
Why the hell was JK Rowling invited to the dressing rooms ? Sure she’s surrounded by posh tadgers at the best of times anyhoo.
7@Heed tracker,
Re Sensible—-A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small parcel. Dave is almost microscopic
@sensibledave said
‘just so I know, in England, which party should a voter have voted for … that wouldn’t have met with your ire?’
You should be asking yourself why the people of England have such a dearth of any alternatives to vote for.People create and support political parties.
But at a push England could vote Green if it wanted to change the order of things.
Bob Mack says:
26 February, 2018 at 5:04 pm
7@Heed tracker,
Re Sensible—-A man wrapped up in himself makes a very small parcel. Dave is almost microscopic
Guess its interesting to see what does get sensible d going btl WoS, for a toryboy in the south of Brexit England, who has no view at all on nation state Scotland. What a bunch.
Lies and deception are what’s all about on planet toryboy. If you’ve been listening to BBC r4 all day, god only knows what the latest Corbyn rubbish is all about but as per beeb gimp usual, there’s a total beeb gimp blackout on any SNP or Scottish viewpoint, Brexit.
We really do UKOK not exist in Brexiteer England. Which wouldn’t be so bad if our imperial master baiters had the faintest fcuking idea what they are doing
Gorgeous pouting Laura’s Scottish I suppose,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43197428
Liz G only been to one Crown Dependency about 40 times over the years and listen to its Radio Station on the Internet every day as i dont listen to the BBC. Thats the Isle of Man, around 80k residents, they have to pick up the tab for the Govener General and his staff over £350k a year.
https://www.gov.im/media/1358283/his-excellence-the-lieutenant-governor-costs-incurred-and-details-of-the-role.pdf
Worth every penny (not) , i think he leaves his office to start the occasional TT race but apart from that I have never seen him out and about. manxies also have to pay their propaganda tax to the BBC although i believe this year onstead of the Manx Taxpayer picking up the tab for over 80’s propaganga tax, the BBc has kindly offered to pick up a percentage of it.
Thry pay around 2 million a year for their contribution to the UK defence costs and presumably they fork out for Foreign affairs as well. George Osbourne screwed them royally for over 200 million a year in vat rebates , around 40% of Manx Government income.
http://archive.is/yQ7VR
There is an Indy movement and and the redoubtable Bernard Moffat has been at the forefront of the Manx Indy movement and the Celtic League for several decades.
For summary of the way the parliament is setup, read this Wikipedia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Isle_of_Man
Once the starting pistol has been fired, if anything happens to our internet, the people of Scotland will tell everyone they know, it is WM, whether it is true or not, and to vote YES.
haudonthenoo says:
26 February, 2018 at 5:04 pm
Why the hell was JK Rowling invited to the dressing rooms ? Sure she’s surrounded by posh tadgers at the best of times anyhoo.
She no doubt went in to the English changing rooms too, Better Together wise.
@desimond.
Rubbish.
For the nth time…there are ZERO UK LAWS that equate events in Catalonia to Scotland.
Not one.
sensibledave @ 16:17,
You just love to descend to the dross you accuse others of, because you have proven yourself incapable of addressing any of the real issues of relevance to us. You have been extensively addressed on what you do actually believe might repair and sustain this damned Union, and you have always ducked the challenge, preferring petty niggles and shallow nit-picking instead. Silly immature mind-games.
But clearly you do have an opinion on Scottish independence, otherwise you wouldn’t expend so much time and effort coming back here again and again.
You are an unrepentant English hegemonist with that usual insufferable exceptionalism which the whole outside world so readily recognises.
You have clearly nothing to offer us, you self-satisfied bore. Just like the failed Union you so inadequately represent.
Interesting article on State Broadcasters website about how small country of just over 5 million were so successful at Winter Olympics. Well done Norway and let know one tell us the lie that we’re too wee! Something for an independent Scotland to aspire to.
The question asked earlier..”who should English folk vote for” ?
Lets see…if EVERY Non Voter was a vote for a party in 2017, that party would have won a healthy majority at WM.
Or..if they all voted Greens..the WM gov would have been Greens. Or monster loony..or any other party that group of dissaffected group would have voted for.
The group with the biggest potential influence on uk politics, do not even vote.
English politics are broken, yet the cure, sit on the outside doing nothing.
Maybe Scottish Independence and the catastrophic disaster that would result in for WM/ruk will be the catalyst required to awaken them.
Anent JK Rowling sneaking into the Scotland dressing room.
El Duce Dodson and the SRU Ayatollahs are, in spite of overwhelming opposition from the clubs, hell-bent on a Westminster-style power grab, whereby, by setting-up six new “super clubs” and getting these clubs to bear the greater part of the financial risk, while Murrayfield makes the big decisions, Scottish rugby will be improved.
Unfortunately, none of the existing Edinburgh clubs will go near Super Six with a barge pole, so, they need to find someone in Edinburgh, who likes rugby, isn’t emotionally tied to a present club and has millions to waste on the SRU’s mad-cap plan.
Maybe El Duce thinks he can get JKR to invest and letting her into the inner sanctum was a good wheeze towards this.
@sensibledave says: 26 February, 2018 at 2:14 pm:
” … Is this really the level of debate you want?”
Who knows, but it sure as hell is the level you have decided to settle at.
@Socrates MacSporran
Mibbees JK was more interested in the Inner Scrotum
Awright I’m away a couldnae resist
Iain
Fair play lol
Important although BBC won’t see past Corbyn’s belated attempt to HALF catch up with what the SNP said a year ago.
Scottish Government rejects Tory attempts to ‘rewrite devolution settlement’
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16049052.Scottish_Government_rejects_Tory_attempts_to__rewrite_devolution_settlement_/
To Ghillie. In the last thread.
Thank you for your comments regarding my updated version of “Scots Wha’ Hae” (No’ bad for a non-Scot, eh? 😉 )
But … I did have an excellent template!
I have another 20 or so songs/parodies of that type dedicated to independence, if you wanna have a read/sing, some time! 😀
(I’d be happy to translate my/the Breton/the Cornish National Anthem for any Scot here, too!)
He not the only so called “proud Scot” the Hastings brothers both back no to independence.
I find it insulting watching them cheer on Scotland, whilst wanting to remain under the dominance of a foreign government.
O/T (re Flag Wars):
Why is it that Medium size farm eggs in Tesco are now “British” rather than from this country?
Whereas if I go large then I can go Scottish.
@ Frogesque
You mean like this?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=IhQ4dE_RGnQ
Yeee – 🙂 🙂
Andy Nicol ran the Edinburgh branch of Better Together.
Its winter.
We are about to experience some winter weather.
An armaggeddon of winter weather if the BBC is to be believed.
Anybody blamed the SNP yet?
Who would have thought the topic of weather would be more interesting than a load of pointless interaction with a troll.
Cheers to ye Michael Russell on the radio just there.
Well said.
@sensibledave says: 26 February, 2018 at 4:20 pm:
” … just so I know, in England, which party should a voter have voted for?”
I’ve told you before, sensibledave. Before posting a comment on Wings – Please do your own research.
Here is the list of the minor registered political parties in England. It does not include the parties actually with representatives at Westminster not those specific to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland. The last three parties are Joke Parties but are, none the less registered political parties.
I would think you had a rather greater choice of party than we Scots have and that is without including the three main, “Blut und Boden”, English Nationalist parties of Tory, Labour and LibDem.
So here you go sensibledave, here is a list of the political parties in only England.
:-
4 Freedoms Party (UK EPP)
Animal Welfare Party
British Democratic League of Voices
Democrats and Veterans
For Britain
IndividualFirst
Jury Team, a “non-party party”: an umbrella organisation for Independent candidates
Libertarian Party
No Candidate Deserves My Vote
One Love Party
Peace Party
Populist Party, subsumed the Popular Alliance
Renew Britain
Social Democratic Party
Something New
Whig Party
Women’s Equality Party
Young People’s Party UK
Independence from Europe
British left
Socialist Party of Great Britain (1904–present)
Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist) (1968–present)
Workers’ Revolutionary Party (1973–present)
Revolutionary Communist Group (1974–present)
New Communist Party (1977–present)
Socialist Workers Party (1977–present)
Revolutionary Communist Party of Britain (Marxist-Leninist) (1979–present)
Socialist Equality Party (1986–present)
International Socialist League (1987–present)
Communist League (1988–present)
Communist Party of Britain (1988–present)
Communist Party of Great Britain (Provisional Central Committee) (1991–present)
Independent Working Class Association (1995–present)
Socialist Labour Party (1996–present)
Socialist Party (England and Wales) (also main constituent of TUSC; has stood as “Socialist Alternative”) (1997–present)
Socialist Resistance (part of Left Unity) (2002–present)
Alliance for Green Socialism (2003–present)
Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) (2004–present)
TUSC (Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition) (2010–present)
Left Unity (2013–present)
National Front (1967–present)
National Liberal Party (1999–present)
Britannica Party (2011–present)
British Democratic Party (2013–present)
For Britain (2017–present)
Christian Peoples Alliance (1999–present)
Christian Democratic Party (UK) (1999–present)
The Common Good (2004–present)
Christian Party (successor to Operation Christian Vote) (2005–present)
Community; local party in the London Borough of Hounslow.
Community Action Party; local centre-left party in Wigan.
Community Group; local party in Doncaster.
English Democrats; campaign for self-government for England.
Idle Toad; independent party in Lancashire.
Lewisham People Before Profit.
Lincolnshire Independents.
National Health Action Party.
People’s Democratic Party,
The Republic Party, based in Pendlebury, Salford.
Roman Party.
Wessex Regionalist Party, campaigning for devolution for Wessex.
Al-Zebabist Nation of Ooog
Church of the Militant Elvis Party
Fancy Dress Party.
Take your pick.
O/T
GA Ponsonby gets it spot on again, SNPbad scotrail, SNPbad minimum pricing. The best bit was even the the blind Jakie was English on the drink segment, and a young Mundell and an English woman were appalled by the shambles of scotrail. Do actual Scots not have opinions on anything?
Always wondered why Nicol gets all the BBC work `cause he is bordering on incomprehensible,
much as I disliked Brian Moore when he wore the England top he is by far the best of the pundits,as hard on his own country as he is with all others,
still miss Bill McLaren,don`t know his politics but Dougie MacLean`s `Caledonia` was one of his favourites.
Sinky says:
It’s an unnerving experience, observing two parallel universes at the same time!
On our side of the divide we have the SNP/SG busy for months on a plan to deal with the Brexit demons which have crossed the interface! We have no broadcasters so we have to delve deeply online to know what’s happening.
However, we see the far side too where the broadcaster seems unaware of events in our domain and reports on the alterative late-on-the-scene half-arsed attempt by some aging wizard called Corbyn to control the malevolence!
Does anyone know how to close portals between alternative universes?
@Liz g says: 26 February, 2018 at 4:45 pm:
“Do you by any chance know,(sorry if ye have explained before and I’ve missed it) what being in a “Crown Dependency” means in practical terms for the people who live there.”
I think the best explanation is perhaps this one:-
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564373/factsheet-on-the-uks-relationship-with-the-crown-dependencies.pdf
The basic concept is they have the current Queen as their head of State, are not governed by Westminster and are indeed otherwise independent states. They have various agreements with the United Kingdom Government on such organisations as their European Union membership, (they are Associate Members of the EU).
To be truthful I haven’t been keeping up with their side of this
BRUKEXIT thing so cannot give any information about it. Like the rest of the British Isles Westminster always assumes they have legal sovereignty over the whole British Isles but Westminster does not have such a legal claim.So Simply, the Crown Dependencies have the Queen as their head of State but are independent states.
“I mean if they are self governing what’s the point?”
About the same as it is for Scots, Liz g. The Queen is supposedly the protector of our sovereignty, (not her own sovereignty), but does her level best to pretend we are her subjects.
re Crown Dependencies, think Full Fiscal Automany , but with Foreign Affairs and Defence reserved to Westminster. In the case of the Isle of Man and presumanly the Other offshore Great Britain territories having to pay the propaganda tax and the costs of the Colonial Overlordship.
@sensibledave says: 26 February, 2018 at 4:48 pm:
“… you couldn’t make it up!”
Yes I could – but never have done so. However, Westminster always has and will continue to do so until we eventually, as a majority of the Sovereign People of Scotland, tell Westminster to sling their hook. Note I said Westminster and not the people of England.
“Sling your hook”, Is a nautical term – The said hook being the ship’s anchor which is slung when the ship weighs anchor.
It is thus a polite way of telling someone to go away.
Tak tent o that saying sensibledave: (“Tak tent”, is a Scottish expression meaning to pay attention.
Thank you Robert & Lenny,for the information.
Do you know if the have/have the right to their own broadcasting?
Just tryin to contrast and compare other administrations against our most powerful one in the world!
OT
BREXIT Thoughts– Apparently we are now in a UK Common Market. How come our electricity generating costs are artificially increased by the English government to benefit their greater generation costs?
How come they take our tax from our products and say its theirs? The EU union with Scottish Government help are aiding local schemes in Skye today. The EU Common market is fairer then any linked with England.
Incidentally dry sunny and cold day and the wind turbines near sunny Ardrossan are turning. The tories said it could never happen.
When the snow comes maybe Transport Scotland could use the snowmobiles and snow cats off the ski slopes to help stranded drivers? even the one in snowzone at Braehead nr Glasgow? You know who will be blamed for the snow!
At the Commons today,
Tory MP
Dr Sarah Wollaston
asked her Government (Tory) Victoria Atkins MP, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department,
why doesn`t England do what Scotland are doing and put a minimum price (50p) on a unit of alcohol,it would tackle the scourge of cheap high street alcohol and reduce pressure on our emergency services,
the Government(Victoria) said `it new about the Scottish Parliaments policy and are looking at it with interest`,
even the English Torys can see what our corrupt and useless media can`t.
How on earth did i miss this from 6 days ago…!!
http://archive.is/l1p5C
Scottish food industry to be ‘devastated’ by hard Brexit
……
From Thd Scotsman no less !!!
“sensibledave says:
26 February, 2018 at 4:17 pm
Referendum1707 4:02 pm
Whilst I have no view on whether Scotland should become independent or not, ….”
Oh boy, ROFL, our resident Britnat idiot trying to tell us he has “no view” – my son asks “Do bears sh1t in the woods, Dad”?
I think the expression is , Gie us peace ‘sensible’, !!
@heedtracker says:26 February, 2018 at 5:14 pm:
“Gorgeous pouting Laura’s Scottish I suppose,”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43197428
Depends on your definition of Scottish, heedtracker, the lady was born in Italy and last time I looked Kuenssberg wasn’t a typical Scottish surname. For myself I class anyone who claims to be Scottish culturally is Scottish.
Andy-B
Re the Hastings brothers. I recall one of their 1990 Grand Slam team-mates desribing Gavin as: “A brilliant rugby player, but, thick as shite in the neck of a bottle.”
Gavin is regarded as the more-intelligent Hastings brother.
Both brothers are Watsonians – George Watson’s College was allegedly formed to provide Scottish District Commissioners for the governance of the Empire.
Hamish100 says:
Indeed!
The EU isn’t perfect but it is positively benign compared to the shite the UK Union has brought down upon us!
Basing its WMDs, Thatcher, destruction of our industrial base, theft of our oil income, pocketing our taxes, illegal Middle Eastern wars, out of control banking, rule with no democratic mandate, austerity, undermining our bid for self determination … and finally f’cking Brexit …
Which door do we lay those at? Not the EU’s!
Just listened to Part 1 of the excellent Billy Kay series on Don Roberto aka Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham. He was the founder of the Labour Party and the Scottish National Party but very much airbrushed out of history for obvious reasons.
It’s in 5 parts on Tuesdays on Radio Scotland at 13:30 and available on the iPlayer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09s8bt2
Next they’ll be broadcasting serieses on Thomas Muir, Patrick Geddes, John MacLean, Ian McHarg. Fa’s ‘at?
Don’t tell anybody.
@Scot Finlayson
Yes, Brian Moore for me is the best commentator of all, he points out stuff in the scrum I didn’t notice. Had a shaky start though, for a few matches he’d be analysing what England should have done 10 minutes after play had moved on.
I remember Brian Moore being absolutely detested by Scotland supporters on a par with bumface Carling. Think he made a few anti-Scottish comments back in the day. He’s actually now one of the better commentators. Impartial and seems like a decent chap. Ah time, the great healer.
Self belief my arse. I remember just before the referendum Carol Craig who was the Chief Executive of the Centre for Confidence was on the radio telling us we couldn’t cope on our own.
I think she also authored a book about The Scots’ Crisis of Confidence but when push came to shove she showed her true colours.
Good coverage of Corbyn’s half baked Brexit speech here:
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16049630.an-snp-mp-just-summed-up-corbyns-brexit-speech-perfectly-in-one-tweet/?ref=mr&lp=1
Dr Jim,
“Look at Andy Murray he had to keep his mouth shut for a long time to avoid the flak and still does most of the time and I believe him to be a man of principles”
What principles?
He made an opportunistic half hearted pro-independence statement late in the day when it looked likely that Yes would mean.
If he supported independence, he should have had the guts to say it upfront.
For opportunists, career comes before principles.
Arabs for Independence @ 20:44,
Aye. She also did a negative piece for The Graun in the last days of indyref1. I remember it well. While that paper’s pro-indy pieces at the time were good, the anti-indy ones were mainly propaganda shoo-ins, including that miserable one.
(Now of course its pro-indy element has submerged, never to be seen again. The liberal-left division of the English Establishment got too scared to tolerate any more Scottie dissent.)
frogesque,
“Every onlooker is a potential YES voter. Please don’t alienate, convince and convert instead.”
But some onlookers are much more potentially yes voters than others.
With limited resources, it is the ultimate in stupidity to waste them on onlookers who are highly unlikely to be convinced and converted: the British Nationalist elderly, the selfish middle classes, English settlers and the thugs.
Try to convince the ones who are more likely to be convinced: the working and “under” classes who voted No or didn’t vote.
Rock @ 20:55,
Never knowingly over-negatived, eh, gloombo?
Except in regard to your brave heroes in RISE, eh? Just haven’t ever been able to get over their mega-flop?
Shangri-La or nothin’, right…?
Yes the posh privately educated ruger boys
Still make money from the old Britnat school tie
And of course regular payments from their chums
In the BBC propaganda unit.
Let’s keep the richer richer and Westminsters hand
In Scotland’s pocket.
Those working class kids living in poverty would only
Spend extra money on roll ups and cheap cider???,
How much I’d like to convert lap dogs like these guys!
I have arrived! I’ve been (partially) quoted by Rock!
Rock, the keyword was ‘onlooker’, if I meant out and out Yoon bampot I would have said so.
For the record, I am an English settler, moved here at 17, been here for 53 years.
frogesque,
“For the record, I am an English settler, moved here at 17, been here for 53 years.”
Rock (22nd February – “The makings of a deal”):
“Only the most stupid people on earth would give English settlers, including holiday home owners, a vote on Scotland’s independence from England.
Before there is a flood of pretendy pro-independence English settlers rushing to post, if you really want Scottish independence, there would be a better chance of achieving it if all English settlers were denied the vote.
It is a proven fact that the vast majority of the English voted No.
And it is not rocket science to forecast that the vast majority will always vote No.
I find that completely natural, but I find it completely wrong and stupid for them to be given a vote.
Brexit would not have won if EU nationals settled in the UK had been given the vote. In my view, it was right to deny them the vote.”
O/T
Just back from from the Mike Russel evening @ Maryhill Central Community Hall.Some of his comments regarding the competence of Westminster ministers I found quite disturbing.Better strap yourselves in folks…its gonna be one helluva bumpy ride!
Sensibledave = ignorant British Nationalist Troll
Sensibledave = ignorant Britnat Troll
Rock back on duty for the evening watch. Oh dear, snp baad, national baad, but he is a pro independence left wing socialite.
frogesque,
“Rock, the keyword was ‘onlooker’, if I meant out and out Yoon bampot I would have said so.”
The keyword was “every”:
frogesque,
“Every onlooker is a potential YES voter. Please don’t alienate, convince and convert instead.”
O/T Well, today seems to be the day when the JC the Saviour has finally produced a new cake for the grateful masses.
It’s going to be a custom Customs Union. If only those blighters on the other side of the Greater English Channel can be made to see sense.
There’s more baking goin’ on these days, both in and out of the Great British Bake-off.
And none of the cakes ever likely to materialise, let alone be (cr)edible. Just more aerated fluff to try to fool the aforesaid troubled masses.
Rock, I know what I fucking well meant, never twist my words again.
Thank you and goodnight.
I have seen Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn today, in interviews, and I have never in my lifetime seen a politician talk such nonsense.
Seriously, the folks at Westminster are all collectively quite mad. Corbyn seems to think he can leave the EU and customs union, but then re-join his OWN customs union, with the EU, but be able to change it, and improve the legislation of the EU (of which he wouldn’t be a member, and have no say). But, and this really is the clincher, he emphasises that the UK does half its trade with the EU, so would be foolish to walk away from it, but we will be leaving. FFS.
Real top quality illogical nonsense, of the maddest kind you ever did hear. I mean have you ever, ever heard a supposedly major UK politician speak such utter, utter, nonsensical sh*te? It’s like Corbyn has the mind of a three year old. Of course politicians hold differing views on things, but at least their is usually some kind of logic involved, but what Corbyn has been spouting today is just utter rubbish, and makes no sense at all.
Seriously, what the f*** is going on in the minds of people like corbyn and the mad London Brexiteers?
Scotland really needs to get away from these madmen.
Depends on your definition of Scottish, heedtracker, the lady was born in Italy and last time I looked Kuenssberg wasn’t a typical Scottish surname. For myself I class anyone who claims to be Scottish culturally is Scottish.”
I did not know that Rabbie. Her family’s Embro aristo right? the classiest kind of aristo in the UKOK zone really.
She was very beeb gimp in 2014, her BBC tv interviews with top YESers were very sneering and jeering. It probably made her too, loyalism is very rewarded in the great beeb gimp universe.
If you want to be Scottish, you have to do what everyone else does if they move somewhere and want to become a citizen of their new home, get naturalised.
Ireland will naturalise you for 200 euro, if you have any Irish connections at all. Even then its not that hard. Spike Milligan found he was stateless after WW2 and when he tried to become British he met with that predictable British snoot.
So he phoned the Irish embassy and it was no problem for them.
frogesque @ 22:03,
Not worth engaging with Mr. Negative, as you see. It’s completely frustrating. Intentionally. He is just out to demoralise. Desperately on the lookout for any cracks to exploit.
Just be confident that we have your back. It’ll be a great wee country to share when the time finally comes.
Robert J. Sutherland,
“Except in regard to your brave heroes in RISE, eh? Just haven’t ever been able to get over their mega-flop?”
Clueless pompous armchair pundits like yourself can never put things in the right context.
In the all important independence referendum, RISE achieved impressive Yes votes in working and “under” class areas of Scotland.
The mega-flop was the massive No votes in the SNP “heartlands”.
Without RISE, the Yes vote would not have been more than 35%.
As for subsequent elections, this has been and remains my stance:
Rock (23rd December 2015 – “To the bitter end”):
“There are several Greens, ex-Greens now claiming to be in the SNP, and socialists trying to dupe SNP supporters into giving their 2nd vote to them.
Some claiming to be SNP supporters are also finding excuses.
This is not the time to take any risks. Don’t be duped.
The SNP are not perfect but we have to give them the benefit of doubt for the sake of independence.
SNP+SNP at least until after independence.”
Rock (7th February 2016 – “Why beggars will be losers”):
“I am no fan of phoney supporters of independence.
The National will do its best to split the SNP vote by heavily promoting RISE as it has already been doing.
Vote SNP+SNP for independence.”
Rock @ 22:06,
Oooo! Touched a nerve there, eh?
Clueless idiot. Election results speak for themselves. What fraction of a hundredth of a percent was it that your heroes managed to get in the Scottish Elections, again? (And most of them now believe Corbyn is their saviour.)
Nirvana or nothin’, eh…?
(Preferably nothin’, in your case, it would seem.)
Your non-contributions really are worse than a waste of space.
frogesque,
“Rock, I know what I fucking well meant, never twist my words again.”
What you meant, only you can know.
What you wrote, is what matters:
frogesque,
“Every onlooker is a potential YES voter. Please don’t alienate, convince and convert instead.”
You clearly referred to “Every” onlooker, which does include every “Yoon bampot”:
frogesque,
“Rock, the keyword was ‘onlooker’, if I meant out and out Yoon bampot I would have said so.”
OK, this is not somehing I usually indulge in but…
I’ve posted, and reposted this on two WOS pages tonight…
———————————————
There is a contributor on here who, sadly, has become a joke. He/She trawls the slightly older pages and sticks in a piece of verbiage, casting aspersions on other commenters – in an attempt to have the “hanging” comment that newbies will see.
You’re sussed, as I have typed before.
———————————————————
Gie it up!
And your bullying of our more elderly contributors does not become you.
Robert Louis @ 22:03,
I know, I know. He is flogging his own recipe of everlasting cake. If I understand the noon reports correctly, he even wants to be able to have a say on further EU trade deals as well.
Somebody should tell him that this is dead easy, he just has to stay in the EU to get the required non-vassal status.
I just wish more people would copy your good example, RL, and shout out that the Saviour JC, just like the Empress May, has no clothes!
Make sure to buy the National tomorrow.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DW_Z7JIWAAAEigK.jpg:large
Fandabydosi.
The same exclusion of potential Yes votes being raised again by either unionist plants or ideological purists. The later being worse than the former.
Made worse by the fact that at some level they must know that they risk not only excluding died in the wool unionist but drive avay those who voted Yes last time.
Great way tar independence supporters with the intolerance brush.
Notice Sarah Smith displaying Union flag symbol on her jacket on BBC 10 o clock news. Doing it deliberately?
Robert J. Sutherland,
“What fraction of a hundredth of a percent was it that your heroes managed to get in the Scottish Elections, again?”
Clueless pompous armchair pundit, what was more important, the independence referendum or subsequent elections?
I am on the record for warning voters not to be duped by RISE and the Greens at subsequent elections.
Unlike the fake “independence supporting” The National which heavily promoted RISE and the Greens to split the SNP vote.
RISE failed, but the Greens did succeed in splitting the SNP vote to allow the Tory viceroy of Scotland to be re-elected.
You can re-write history if you want, but my appreciation of RISE for their efforts in the referendum as well as my opposition to them in subsequent elections is on the record here.
Methinks our two resident trolls from GCHQ, the 77 group or whatever they are called, are becoming desperate and more and more shrill.
Rather than engage, can I suggest we adopt that all-purpose Scottish response to bull shit.
Rock, sensible dave, whatever you post – Aye Right!!
Rock @ 22:31,
Aye, richt!
That Jeremy Corbyn speech today was exactly the same as the kind of waffle that the Tories have come out with since the referendum vote on the EU.
The fist paragraph below from the middle of his speech shows clearly how deluded he too is when it comes to any EU deal, the last paragraph is simply breathtaking. Jeremy has swallowed the entire cake yet is trying to persuade us that we can still all have a slice of the cake he’s eaten if we vote for Labour!
What planet are these people from? Not planet feet on the ground.
Labour would seek a final deal that gives full access to European markets and maintains the benefits of the single market and the customs union as the Brexit Secretary, David Davis promised in the House of Commons, with no new impediments to trade and no reduction in rights, standards and protections.
We have long argued that a customs union is a viable option for the final deal. So Labour would seek to negotiate a new comprehensive UK-EU customs union to ensure that there are no tariffs with Europe and to help avoid any need for a hard border in Northern Ireland.
But we are also clear that the option of a new UK customs union with the EU would need to ensure the UK has a say in future trade deals. A new customs arrangement would depend on Britain being able to negotiate agreement of new trade deals in our national interest.
Labour would not countenance a deal that left Britain as a passive recipient of rules decided elsewhere by others. That would mean ending up as mere rule takers.
Great speech that leaves me speechless!
https://archive.is/XUonV
Those working class kids living in poverty would only
Spend extra money on roll ups and cheap cider???,
How much I’d like to convert lap dogs like these guys!
Scotland’s got a deeply entrenched class system just like our neighbour Brexit England.
Will it last forever?
Why is it so difficult to become middle class in teamGB these days?
Usually the red and the blue tories kick the crap out of the uni’s, for NOT solving class mobility fails in Scotland. Let more working class kids in to uni they rant and rage, bring in English style fees and everyone who wants to be middle class Scottish, will be.
What happened to class mobility under the last Labour government of Bomber Blair and Crash Gordo?
From the Torygraph, most zoomer of toryboy zoomers who tolerated Crash Gordo but not for very long, when it looked the rich might have to pay a bit for the great City crash.
“A London School of Economics report in 2007 concluded that low social mobility in the UK has not improved in 30 years.
Gordon Brown last year admitted that Labour had not done enough to let the children of poor families advance themselves, admitting: “A child’s social class background at birth is still the best predictor of how well he or she will do at school and later on in life.”
The Prime Minister has asked Alan Milburn, the former Health Secretary, to lead a commission looking at social mobility. Mr Milburn has said that social mobility had been declining in Britain for several decades, but has now “bottomed out”.
Its not just lack of uni for the working class, Crash Gordo pumped billions in doctors pay and salaries, as teachers and nurses now earn the same as bus drivers and cops. It wasn’t always like that.
Red tories like Crash Gordo really loved doctors. Can’t see a big old Westminster phony like future PM Corbyn being any different.
@Briandoonthetoon,
I thought I was having a bad day with the Beast from the East.
Now Wings has got the Mouth from the South, and the Pest from the West commenting as well.
You can re-write history if you want, but my appreciation of RISE for their efforts in the referendum as well as my opposition to them in subsequent elections is on the record here.
You endlessly repeat the same yoon stuff over and over Rock and that’s nice for you.
But we all know you’re a toryboy yoonster for one simple reason, you never say anything critical of the red or the blue tories, ever.
Thepnr @ 22:40,
Thanks for the chapter-and-verse on that one, Alex. Looks like I wasn’t wrong about how self-contradicTory the new Corbyn bake is. There’s surely something wacky among the ingredients that someone has been sampling.
Another everlasting cake for the coming Austerity-Plus.
The BBC mindset is always revealed in their wording of stories. Tonight’s 6 news referred to what powers WM would ‘grant’ to the devolved governments. They ignore the truth that these powers are already devolved and the the word should have been ‘remove’.
Strangely the BBC is always willing to promote the idea that the government is carrying out the decision of the public regarding Brexit. They seem to forget the will of the Scots who voted more decisively for its own parliament and devolution settlement.
I think Frank Field has revealed the reason for the Corbyn ‘change’, it isn’t really one but will serve them for what they want. It is being portrayed as a flexible compromise and if the EU reject it they will then use this as proof the EU is blocking a deal, hence hard exit required.
Meanwhile the BBC will spend hours discussing this Corbyn nonsense as if it was serious and had legs.
Finally for Rep Scot, that never seem to want to cover Brexit when it suites them, manages to have a fairly large piece of a speech in Wales by a WM politician. As it was warning about breaking up the UK then it of course it would be high up the running order. This from a programme that was unwilling to cover the Brexit exit analysis details.
The 1707 Treaty of Union should be set aside since it is not fit for purpose
https://caltonjock.com/2018/02/26/the-1707-treaty-of-union-full-awareness-of-the-facts-of-the-betrayal-of-our-ancestors-by-the-landed-gentry-should-persuade-scots-that-we-should-reclaim-our-right-to-govern-ourselves-the-union-is-tar/
Heedtracker 10.04pm. I’d rather pay 200 euros to be a naturalised Irishman, than live on my f****g knees as a PSB.
@jfngw
“They ignore the truth that these powers are already devolved and the the word should have been ‘remove’.”
How mind-boggingly corrupt is that? I despair at those that are not yet paying attention to such things, I despair that the national broadcaster can get away with such perversions of the truth without criticism.
Today the SNP are accused of wreaking the governments negotiations as they won’t kow-tow to Westminster when it comes to these powers being removed under a UK “common market”.
I live in hope, slowly but surely the message will get out to even the hardest of hearing about the repeated lies. We have to hope so, the media aren’t going to do it for us, so it’s up to us.
boris says:
26 February, 2018 at 11:19 pm
The 1707 Treaty of Union should be set aside since it is not fit for purpose
Great blogging as usual CJ.
From the archives, feels like its coming closer and closer,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/salmonds-parting-shot-scotland-could-leave-the-uk-of-its-own-accord-9862386.html
Stinky old The Graun today and Lord Wallace of Tankardness
http://archive.is/ZSH0z
EU (withdrawal) bill
“turned that basic principle of devolution on its head. Post-Brexit, UK ministers would hoard the repatriated powers in devolved areas and confer them on the devolved institutions, as and when they saw fit.”
This cack-handed approach of the UK government has allowed the Scottish government an opportunity to crank up its already well-oiled grievance machine, making sensible agreement and compromise more difficult.”
Yoons will never change. That is grievance.
They are called the British (and Irish) Lions (Geographical terms). Not the UK Lions (which would be political). Scotland will still mainly be on the island of Great Britain after Independence… Just won’t be in the UK.
Finn Russell’s Gran’s obituary was in the Scots Independent a year or two ago, she was a long time SNP member.
If he’s a yoon I’ll eat my pants!!!!!
heedtracker @ 23:35,
Congrats to Jim Wallace, now safely esconsed in the Great Hall of the People (Ermine Division), for recognising the reality of the Premature Withdrawal Bill.
It would therefore seem obvious, even to a committed BritNat like Lord Jim, that this particular grievance is extremely well-founded.
So what is there about his well-chosen words that apparently makes it seem that “grievance” has somehow become a swear word? Something pejorative? Something we somehow shouldn’t feel, despite the reality even he can recognise?
Yes, the Cringe is strong in him.
Hamish 100
Good points if we are currently in the UK Common market, how come delivery companies charge extra to delver to the Highlands and Islands – if at all.
How come Longannet had to pay to send electricity to England yet Reading was being paid to generate electricity ;
How come it’s not Team UK;
How come HS2 is only going as far North as Sheffield;
and so on.. and son on..
UK Common market my foot!
Anybuddy else feel like that we are SO on the cusp of callin’ iRef?
Ah used tae PLAY the rugby XV’s for the school in secondary.
One played as a winger, they couldnae catch me, aye flew.
Ah was a sweet child of the Chamberlain Road.
St. Andrews was some night on the beach.
Work this & that one out Glasgow.
Share a little to learn a lot.
Clue, ‘points at carriages’
17 across for 13?
Mornin’.
XV.
@Thepnr says: 26 February, 2018 at 10:40 pm:
“That Jeremy Corbyn speech today was exactly the same as the kind of waffle that the Tories have come out with since the referendum vote on the EU.”
I’ve said it on Wings since the first days I posted here that the truth about Westminster has always been a confidence trick and the whole setup has always been a front to fool the voters.
They are now, and always have been part of, “The Westminster Establishment”. All of the which is a front for the elite ruling class and that includes the Royals. It has it’s fingers in every purse and pocket in the United Kingdom and the sham that is Party politics is the front to fool the people.
They, the three main parties, are unionists to the core. What once were the landed gentry and English Mercantile Marine, (what was once the financial sector), play to the gallery that they are opponents to each other but history shows they have always stood shoulder to shoulder against any threat to the Westminster Establishment and that includes the aristocracy and Royalty.
They are what they have always been – “The Westminster Establishments political wing.
Hey @Rock why don’t you have the confidence of your convictions give me your address and I’ll come round your house and hit you with a hammer,,,,,,,,no?
Now you know why certain celebrities and well known people keep their mouths shut….Prick!
@Thepnr
Yeah, clocked Corbyn’s speech and a few long winded, not to mention misguided, attempts to report same as a Labour stance with clear water.
No. No it’s not either.
In fact near as anyone can tell, the only difference between May’s hard Brexit and Corbyn’s is that Corbyn will commit the exact same act of economic carnage with a sad face.
‘A’ customs union (not THE customs union) outside the single market and the dark legislative influence of them pesky furriners. Sounds like a deep and special relationship which those self same furriners would have to agree to. Sounds like… a cherry picked, cake and eat it solution which the EU have already been quite specific about.
I’d wish him luck with that, but y’know… Also, I suspect elements within his own party are going to wake up tomorrow with a WTAF look on their faces and a few terse questions to ask the fella. (shrugs)
Having said that
Huh! Smiley didn’t take to end my last post.
(tries again)
🙂
fao: The Sunday Telegraph titles ~
Why didn’t you just say, “Scotland gives England a bloody nose”
See it the other way say, “Engs give…”
Why not, “Brexit trade deals ‘could be ruined by the Scottish Government’ ”
Two clear examples of the press making their gripes personal, upon both the Scottish National Party and Scottish people.
Come now, print the factual truth:
“
BrUKexit trade deals will be ruined by the Tories”‘inner quotes not required’
Listening to Mike Russell this morning on BBCs, he says it as it is. I suspect there could be a major constitutional clash beginning to emerge now.
As the Tories try more smoke and mirrors,and ministers are protecting Brexit with non stop speeches by all the usual hard line right suspects.
The SG is digging in it’s heels in it’s attempt to protect Scotland’s interests. Something is going to give,as the rhetoric
rises.
Time for Scotland to stand up to the devious Westminster cabal.
well said Robert Peffers
Britain is a one party state…The Westminster party…with two main arms Labour and Tory the others matter little, except one. This Upstart party must be destroyed by all the others, unfortunately they have seats in Westminster and we can all see whats happening in what claims to be the mother of all Parliaments. Both they and there so called Parliament are a disgrace to Democracy.
O/T
English thug at Murrayfield attempts tp STRANGLE Scottish Player!!
Rugby top brass claim that scratching the thugs make-up was tantamount to gouging!!!!!!
Not allowed to react when being CHOKED TO DEATH??
FFS.
The boast appears to be that Scotland, where there are only 38,500 registered rugby players beat the Michty English,, which has 1.990,998 registered players.
Why so few rugby players in Scotland?
If we have roughly 8% of the UK population, simple maths would dictate that we should have a naturally proportionate number of Scots lads (and lassies) playing rugby as a sport up here.
That would be 159,280 youngsters taking up the sport, and feeding into the professional game, and ultimately the National squad.
But no; we have only 1.4% of our country playing Rugger.
I wonder why?
Well, we know why, don’t we. We also know why most of them are Brit Nats too.
Discuss.
I’d pay good money to watch Drumchapel Diggers take on Castlemilk Kickers at rugby. But that will never happen, and we all know why.
Same with tennis, cricket, rowing, and so on.
Sports reserved for colonial overlords and their offspring.
Huh.
Lidington said: “Leaving the EU presents many challenges for our centuries-old union story – and opportunities too. Some want to use this as an excuse to loosen these ties that bind us together or even sever them completely. I believe such an outcome would leave every one of our four nations both weaker and poorer.”
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16049681._Scotland_will_NOT_be_bullied_by_Westminster___Mike_Russell_slams_Tory_power_grab/
Yes, I think it would leave one of the two former signatories poorer too. Probably not the one he means tho.
Perhaps Mr Lidington should take some time to consider his next statements VERY carefully. Perhaps Mr Lidington should pause to consider the absolute fucking folly of treating partners as second class citizens and disposable assets. Perhaps Mr Lidington should dwell upon the utter lunacy his party has unleashed on ALL of the nations of these islands with their utter disregard for standing agreements, pledges and assurances. Perhaps….
What am I saying? He’s a Tory and they’re not particularly big on consideration for others.
@Jack collatin
Pretty sure your analysis is accurate but up here in the Highlands there’s also the shinty factor to consider. I remember our PE teacher from the central belt struggling to get youngsters to play rugby here in the 1980s, a game totally unfamiliar to them. There’s more participation now and the teacher part of me wants kids to have as many opportunities as possible to find a sport they enjoy.
But certainly not at the expense of the local sporting culture. And definitely not if it represents creeping establishment values.
Tories demonstrate that they control the Media. Is that understood, Jeremy!
“Corbyn’s Brexit speech was unusual in many ways – it won grudging praise from the business community and even from the likes of former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne.
But the event was unsurprisingly Corbynista in many ways. Labour lawmaker(MP) Rebecca Long-Bailey, who chaired the event, first failed to recognize any of the reporters she called on for questions. Then she called on a non-journalist to ask a question, and it was pretty softball: “I want to say please will you hurry up and be our prime minister,” the would-be inquisitor asked Corbyn.”
Brexit Bulletin noreply@mail.bloombergbusiness.com
Very funny Brexit story in todays Daily Fail about the NI border issue. These people really really are complete nutjobs LOL.
Boris Johnson today dismissed EU efforts to turn the screw in Brexit negotiations by demanding domain over Northern Ireland if Britain leaves the customs union.
The Foreign Secretary hit back amid signs a legal text drawn up by Brussels will effectively ignore the UK’s side of the divorce deal struck before Christmas.
The draft lays out plans for Northern Ireland to stay ‘fully aligned’ with European laws and regulation, without referring to British proposals for technological solutions and other arrangements to avoid a hard border.
The high-stakes move, said to be driven by an increasingly tough stance in France and Germany, has fueled fears that negotiations could collapse altogether.
Asked about the EU stance this morning, Mr Johnson said: “We don’t think that is the right way forward.”
Best bit comes right at the end hahaha.
British officials accused the EU of picking and choosing the bits they liked from the divorce deal to put into the treaty.
https://archive.is/0SWch
What is it with The BBC’s obsession with Nigel Farage?
What justification was there for having him on yesterday’s Daily Politics?
Furthermore he is scheduled to be on the panel for this week’s Question Time AGAIN.
Is he now a BBC employee or is he just a freelance?
THERE’S SOMETHING IN THE WATTER
Aye there’s something in the watter down south . We’ve now had the long awaited utterances of JC more flim flam from the man . A new customs union that the Tories can’t secure from the EU but JC will be the saviour of the day . We will have Tereza’s sermon on Friday Not at PMQs but in time for the Sunday political broadcasts & the Sunday papers .
I feel the quickening .
Sensibledave = ignorant offensive Britnat troll
That Dr Liam Fox should stick his stethoscope up his arse to see if his brain is functioning .
Re rugby participation numbers
Rather than raw population ratios
Might be more instructive to look at private schooling ratios
I’d guess England has a much higher proportion
But it’s just a guess
Quick google tells me it’s 7% v 4%
gus1940 says: 27 February, 2018 at 9:06 am
What is it with The BBC’s obsession with Nigel Farage?
Pandering to middle England’s obsession with immigration.
In the Westminster system that is wedding to a first past the post system of elections it is unbelievable that Nigel Farage has had 32 appearances on BBC TV’s Question Time particularly broadcast to Scotland where UKIP has never won a single MSP or even a local Council seat in our proportional electoral system.
UKIP 66 times up to 2017 GE out of 266 programmes or 25%
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/question-time-ukip-nigel-farage_uk_58d95295e4b03787d35ae186
Lib Dems parliamentarians on QT since 2017 GE FIVE out of 40 Programmes
SNP since 2017 GE FOUR parliamentarians out of 40 programmes 10%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Question_Time_episodes
Under Westminster FPTP rules the SNP has been the third force for the past three years and have by some margin the second largest membership base in the UK.
But one again Britannia waives the rules as even with 56 MPs the SNP did not get anywhere near the same level of appearances as the Lib Dems got when they had 57 MPs
ronnie anderson says:
27 February, 2018 at 9:06 am
I feel the quickening.
Indeed. Those whom the Gods would destroy……
The only potential spanner in the (Indy) works is if a substantial number of Scottish Labour voters/ex-voters swallow JC’s BS on a customs union. We all know it’s BS, it’s same old Labour trying to be all things to all people. But misinformed and less-informed folk may buy in to it for a while. Only a while, but possibly long enough to damage the Indy cause for a few, crucial years.
We need to be on our guard about this – Labour know what the people want to hear and they are trying to pull a fast one (yet again). The media will be only too willing to help them bamboozle the public and do their tory masters a great service. Watch out. 🙂
Macart says:
Privately educated, then Cambridge. He will have entitlement and exceptionalism writ large in his DNA sequence! He almost certainly perceives the UK as Greater England, a mere extension of England proper, where London’s rule should be absolute and unchallenged.
To the likes of him we should say only one thing … ‘butt out and mind your own business’.
This is a stance I am adamant we need to take in IndyRef2. The decision is for those living in Scotland. Everyone else needs to keep out of it. And if any group in Scotland uses externally sourced money then they need to be called out as ‘bought and sold’.
Luigi says:
Over the last ten years Scots voters have moved back and forwards between SNP and Lab. used to be SNP for Holyrood, and Lab for WM. 2015 GE broke that, then 2017 GE saw a small movement back. I have no doubt it’s fluid.
I would like to believe the effect is one more likely to occur at WM elections and not at Holyrood.
However, while lots of things contributed to the NO win in IndyRef1, the Labour Party was central and crucial to the NO campaign. The polls in 2014 were not predicting a Tory win in the next GE.
I do agree that the legacy influence of Labour is our Achilles Heel. If the media hype up Corbyn and his potential to remove the Tories and change the UK, then it could boost NO in IndyRef2. Labour’s record sucks and we need to highlight that. They are no friend of Scotland.
Ronnie Anderson @ 9.06am:
“I feel the quickening.”
Just, maybe, the best one-liner you have come up with in your many posts on here Mr Anderson. Chapeau sir.
galamcennalath at 10.03
“Labour’s record sucks and we need to highlight that.”
Exactly. All the way from every Labour MP colluding in the hiding of the McCrone report as they betrayed the Scottish people that had voted for them on the altar of London rule.
Labour has nothing to offer Scotland but they want Scotland’s resources to deal with the the UK’s social collapse and they believe they need Scottish votes to win a Westminster election.
“Just, maybe, the best one-liner you have come up with in your many posts on here Mr Anderson. Chapeau sir.”
Mr Anderson’s Corbyn the “Flim Flam Man” was purty good too, imo.
That speech of JC’s yesterday was completely incoherent and contradictory. A fifth-year Modern Studies student could have picked it apart, something completely beyond any BBC journo yesterday.
That speech of JC’s yesterday was completely incoherent and contradictory. A fifth-year Modern Studies student could have picked it apart, something completely beyond any BBC journo yesterday.
Tories red and blue, desperate to not lose Leave England vote base, red or blue tory.
Another day in Scotland and professional liars at work.
When do beeb gimps scope a “row?” When its a very very big deal indeed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43206967
Watched Labour voters in the North of England being interviewed on various news outlets regards J Corbyns new ideas. These people were not for having it, all they wanted was for the clock to be turned back as to how it was before we Joined the Common Market.
I felt sorry for them, they wish to return to a world which no longer exists, to a country where it was Labour for a wee while then Tory for twice as long, I wonder what will happen when these deluded people come to realise that its not going to happen.
BBC Scotland gimps usual flat out lying about power sharing as beeb England gimpery produces this from future UK zone President BJ
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43210156
Boris Johnson likens Irish border challenge to congestion charge
Being governed by the great beeb gimp network and the high tories of planet toryboy, is a very odd way to run Scotland.
@ Starlaw, the xenophobes will chuck the toys oot the pram & set fire to their cities again!
I wonder what will happen when these deluded people come to realise that its not going to happen.
They’ll be poor/er. But the whole of the UK msm will tell them its great, all of it.
For example and from that beeb gimp thing on how Sturgeon’s trying for Brexit “negotiations” independence, booooo.
Mr Taylor says tory UK rule of its Scotland region is a lovely thing run by sweetie pies who only want Concensus, you see.
“Westminster is sovereign, and Westminster can legislate in this matter.
If Westminster wants, it can say: “If we can get this EU Withdrawal Bill through the House of Commons and through the House of Lords, then that’s good enough for us and the rest of you can go swing.”
But Westminster will not do that. Why? Because they want to proceed by consensus. The UK government is in enough trouble over Brexit without adding a fight with Holyrood into the mix as well.”
Ain’t no shyster like a beeb gimp shyster.
I am deeply unexcited about a customs union! It is a long way short of the EU single market. The SNP/SG made this point immediately.
The customs union Turkey has with the EU merely means that the same tariffs will be applied to goods coming in from a 3rd country. Those goods can then move within the customs union area free of further tariffs. Importantly, the Turkish arrangement only applies to manufactured goods and not to food or services.
The EU single market, which the Scottish Government say is a red line, is a whole different ball game. Not only are internal tariffs removed, but goods, services, capital, and people can all move freely. Also, non-tariff barriers to internal trade caused by standards, packaging, etc are tackled.
Trade in the 21stC is about countries agreeing convergent standards. In the case of the EU this means to the highest standards. Clearly, Brexit UK is going to be about lowering standards and specifically below the EU.
For me it’s a case of lowest common denominator versus highest! Scotland needs to stay compliant with the highest.
I wonder if Team Scotland will be touring Edinburgh in an open-top bus to celebrate the winning of our Calcutta Cup for the People of Scotland.
“Rugby’s coming home, it’s coming HOME” 🙂
I mean. Am I missing something here. Can anybody actually tell this guy who grew up in a very deprived area of Glasgow tenements, what was so good about UK BEFORE we joined the common market?
I have rattled my brains trying to think of any benefits in terms of workers rights,environment,fishing ,farming or any other area where the UK had an idyllic existence, but I cannot think of one thing.
My life diverged between city life and working on my uncles farm during summer, so I have a good insight into rural life as well. It was hard,long and often dangerous work.
As far as I can see, people’s dissatisfaction with the way this country has been run for decades has morphed into something quite extraordinary. “It cannae be us ,so it must be them that’s to blame”.
Always look for a scapegoat when you fail yourself.
Another UKOK day at the Graun, YOU are in the UK and dont you forget stinky olde The Graun reader of our Scotland region. Its a beautiful sunny snow free morn here in Glasgow too.
From,
UK weather: ‘beast from the east’ hits Britain with snow and freezing temperatures – live update
Schools, roads, rail and air travel could all be affected as extreme cold weather and snow engulfs large parts of the country
to,
Snow and freezing temperatures bring travel disruption to UK
Trains, roads and air travel disrupted as all but most westerly parts likely to see snow
Kevin Rawlinson
Tue 27 Feb 2018 08.43 GMT First published on Tue 27 Feb 2018 08.25 GMT
Wonder how our other Scottish neighbours like Norway cope but then England’s not interested in actual neighbours, sorry, its UK and Britain are not interested…
Starlaw @ 10.43
I saw that interview too and I agree with you.
There was one guy they interviewed who wanted it be like before we joined and he must have been early/mid 40s.
How the hell does he know what it was like before? We joined officially on 1/1/73 – 45 years ago.
@ Socrates MacSporran Whit dey ye mean ok ah hiv been ah bit lax of late but ah hiv been getting on wie the day joab , sumbudy hiz tae dey it lol.
Ah feel the Quickening ah wisht it wiz in ma leg’s lol.
UK weather: ‘beast from the east’ hits Britain with snow and freezing temperatures – live
Schools, roads, rail and air travel could all be affected as extreme cold weather and snow engulfs large parts of the country
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Brett Canham prepares his catering stall on Scarborough seafront, as heavy snowfall is affecting roads across the UK on Tuesday morning after several centimetres fell in some parts over the night.
Brett Canham prepares his catering stall on Scarborough seafront, as heavy snowfall is affecting roads across the UK on Tuesday morning after several centimetres fell in some parts over the night. Photograph: John Giles/PA
Contribute with guardian witness
Matthew Weaver (now) and Bonnie Malkin (earlier)
Tue 27 Feb 2018 11.03 GMT
A snowflake just floated past my Glesga work window here.
Its hell on earth, UK, sorry, British hell on earth.
Interesting essay by prof Richard North over on
EUReferendum.com
on Corbyn’s most recent ramblings. Like Kirsty Hughes – he say’s it is not workable and makes no sense.
I find his site very good, he advocates for Leave (yes I know!), but is pulling his hair out at the completely shambolic incompetence and ignorance on display at Westminster, and he doesn’t pull his punches.
His site has also done the Impact Assessments and none of them are good.
I’m recommending his site to more and more people, particularly considering his preference.
One word of warning though – he’s English and sees everything through that lense.
I’ve contacted him a few times for info and he replied promptly and concisely. I don’t get into the Scottish aspect with him in any way, as it would waste both our times.
In the absence of Nana – who I hope is having a very good rest – enjoy a wee read of his site.
Cheerie to all. Anyway, I’m calling it BREXSHIT from now on. Only the depth varies.
YES NOW
@Les Wilson says: 27 February, 2018 at 7:40 am:
“Listening to Mike Russell this morning on BBCs, he says it as it is. I suspect there could be a major constitutional clash beginning to emerge now.”
Which is exactly what the Scottish First Minister has been telling them was going to happen all along. It is also what the leadership of Plaid Cymru and the Irish Republic told them but most of all what the EU and EC spokespersons were telling them.
What is it about the Westminster Establishment that they cannot understand plain English if it isn’t spoken with a Thames Estuary accent?
“The SG is digging in it’s heels in it’s attempt to protect Scotland’s interests. Something is going to give,as the rhetoric
rises.”
The SG isn’t digging its heels in – it is simply sticking to the exact stance it took from the outset of threatened
BRUKEXIT.“Time for Scotland to stand up to the devious Westminster cabal.”
What the hell do you imagine they have been doing from the outset of Westminster start of the
BRUKEXIT?Just because the SMSM and the English/UK/British propaganda hasn’t spewed it out all over the broadcast bands, internet and biased dead tree press doesn’t disguise the facts that the SG/SNP and wider YES movement haven’t changed their stance on the matter from the very start.
There is absolutely no change whatsoever in what Nicola Sturgeon is saying today than what she said right away when Westminster tried to tell her that Scotland didn’t have a say in the matter. She warned then that there would be a constitutional crisis if they continued to press ahead without allowing the devolved administrations any input.
https://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-to-slash-scottish-routes-11269451
Woohoo!
Who wants to come to the greater Brexit England region of bonnie Scotland anyway.
@ Bob Mack – Can anyone remember what was so good about things before we joined the EU.
No but I remember as a wee girl growing up through the 70’s,every week we would watch Nationwide or Ester Ransom show us another tragic death,
a bairn who died because the toy they played with was lethal
A family who died, because the furniture fabric caught fire, as there were no H and S standards
And industry complaining about how difficult it was to trade with different countries, because they all had different standards to meet, and what a good idea it would be to unify them all and just have to meet one criteria.
Truck drivers hours being restricted due to fatal car crashes
We don’t get so much of that now, not enough for a TV program to ‘campaign’ on it every week at least. But hey, its all ‘health and safety’ gone mad don’t you know. Lets take back control.
@ Bob Mack – Can anyone remember what was so good about things before we joined the EU.
Actually Bob, it goes back much further than that.
Can anyone remember what was good in the UK for working class men and women……..ever?
The English voters have been sold a memory of a Great Britain which NEVER exisited.
The weather was much nicer before we joined the EU and the EU is responsible for all the mess we’re in now with the SNP complaining all the time about stuff that’s none of their business, banging on about Scotland being a country when we all know it’s not, the BBC news doesn’t tell us about all these grievances the SNP have so it can’t be true, the SNP closed the pits and wrecked the ship building and ruined the NHS so how come people are voting for them still, and you never see any mental health polis anymore
Even SKY news which is completely fair in all its broadcasting just ignores the SNP so it’s all true the SNP just make all this stuff up because their plan is to totally destroy Scotland because they want..eh..they want…well eh sumthin bad for Scotland..eh.. because..well they jist dae right
It’s that Sturgeon
@ Heedtracker Sky news yesterday there will be a heavy snowfall of wet snow , today the flew a helicopter over Essex the snows laying on the ground lol its the way they tell em .
@Jock McDonnell says: 27 February, 2018 at 9:26 am:
“Might be more instructive to look at private schooling ratios
I’d guess England has a much higher proportion
But it’s just a guess.”
Rather hard to figure out Jock. Seeing as a, “Public School”,(sic), in England is in fact a private school while a , “Public School”, in Scotland is actually a non-dom, thus open to anyone, school for all of the public.
Daisy Walker says:
I too remember well the situation before the EU forced ‘red tape’ on private enterprise. Without constraints, they would readily and happily go back to endangering us all!
We had highly inflammable clothes, cars which disintegratied in collisions or burst into flames, houses full of products containing asbestos, and God only knows what processed food contained half a century ago!
Ah, the good old days.
As an aside, on my dog walk this morning I was passed by a car with a ‘full house’ of stickers – butcher’s apron, UKOK, Vote No, and Vote Leave. They live among us, that other species.
Cactus @ 11.04am
Bit pointless really doing an open-top bus tour of Edinburgh with the Calcutta Cup.
The trophy which HRH the Princess Royal handed over to John Barclay on Saturday was an exact replica – the original Calcutta Cup, following John Jeffrey’s and Dean Richard’s wee escapade along Rose Street in 1988, is now considered too-valuable to leave its glass case at Twickenham.
Whichever of the winning captains gets to collect it, collects a replica – two were made. I suppose it’s a wee bit like the original Ashes urn, which is permanently at Lords.
Notice a pattern here, the English don’t like giving away what they see as their trophies, even when they lose them.
Another pattern – 1988, JJ and Deano acted together; JJ got a five-month ban from the SRU, Deano got a one-game ban from the RFU.
2018, Ryan Wilson is cited for “contact with the area around an opponent’s eyes;” Nathan Hughes, who had both hands round Wilson’s neck at the time – no action.
One rule for the English, another rule for the lesser beings.
ronnie anderson says:
27 February, 2018 at 11:41 am
@ Heedtracker Sky news yesterday there will be a heavy snowfall of wet snow , today the flew a helicopter over Essex the snows laying on the ground lol its the way they tell em .
Today’s weather horror coverage is a pretty good display of how tory media gimps use it to NOT report anything nasty about planet toryboy, Brexit tory shite, Scotland getting reamed by hard core England Cons and ofcourse absolutely anything about their Scotland region, that might be of interest.
The yanks get exact same shite dumped on them too, in fact you could plonk the Pacific Quay toryboy yoon fandango in to New York city, replace that giant BBC SCOTLAND badge on the roof of Pacific Quay with FOX and FRIENDS, and America would be none the wiser.
Botox Bird in particular would look great on FOX news too. Hard core right wing attack propaganda travels rather well across the pond.
Stinky olde The Graun’s Scotland region ed Severin Carrell is out sledging today, in Sunderland, best job in teamGB hackdom.
The alternative BBC news;
In other news, many people in Scotland don’t have coats on and are going about with quizzical looks saying.. Whit’s aw the fuss aboot and whit’s a withdrawal bill, is that like a new contraception thing
Prior to joining the EU, Britain was known as “The sick man of Europe”. That was for a reason. Our economy was in negative territory in terms of GDP. Our machinery and labour relations were shambolic.
Taking back control. My ass
Funny that the day after Scotland beat England, the only paper on the shelf which didnt mention it on the front page was the “Scottish” Daily Mail.
They know their readers!
I attended an English Primary school in deepest Hants in the 1940s and spend some time in two areas of London while living with aunts who were married to Londoners, one in the old docklands area and the other in a more upper class central London area.
Those months in that Hants school were the most miserable of my life and the housing of those London Docklands houses were probably the worst slum housing conditions I’ve ever seen. The contrast to that more up-market London home was stark.
https://www.google.com/search?q=old+London+dockland+housing&num=30&lr=&newwindow=1&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPitO3jcbZAhXhLMAKHQSTD3sQsAQIXA&biw=1280&bih=591
Mornin’ to ye Socrates MacSporran ~
Cheers for your earlier all about the Calcutta Cups, aye was not aware of that, we’ll just need to have do the Locomotion up and down the Royal Mile then:
You could say, we are on the cusp of the conga:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V6N4elMVX4 (481 comments)
Lookin’ good, Scottish Government Minister for Transport and the Islands.
Cheers again to all of the night-shift staff working our roads.
Tis snowin’ in the south.
We’re up to nine inches over here already.. say whaaat!
Welcome to the day before March.
Another fast February.
Remember watching this on your TV screens back in ’15.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVAt8Wrr18U
Warning: You may laugh 🙂
@ Cactus, muy buen muchacho!
For late readers of this thread. Details have now been posted over on Off Topic about the forthcoming
WINGERS SOCIAL GATHERING AND SWALLY (with food)
This is to be held in the Otters Head in Woodside in Glenrothes on 7th April (declaration Of Arbroath weekend)