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Here come the monsters again

Posted on February 27, 2018 by

If you’re a person (unemployed or working) subsisting via state welfare in the UK, there can be no more genuinely, blood-runs-cold, terrifying phrase in the English language than a Tory saying they’ve come up with “fresh thinking” on poverty and benefits.

Because – and if you’re only going to trust us on one thing in your life, trust us on this – it never, ever means your life’s about to get better.

The Scottish Sun is very often unfairly tarred with the brush of its loathsome English counterpart despite being politically a very different beast. While it’s obviously by no means a mouthpiece of socialism we’d still place it well to the left of almost every other significantly-sized paper in Scotland other than the Daily Record – certainly more centrist than the Scottish editions of the Mail, Express and Times and beyond much doubt the Scotsman and Herald too, let alone the frothingly-Tory big regional titles like the Press & Journal.

(Describing the Scotsman in particular as “significantly-sized” is an increasingly contentious categorisation, we’d grant you.)

So we’re going to cut it a little slack and assume that this morning’s editorial was driven mainly by the barren news desert that Scottish politics has been for the whole of February, and the desperation to have SOMETHING to fill the politics pages with other than yet another piece of depressing reader-repellent about the black pantomime of Brexit and the wrangling between the Scottish and UK governments over powers that will or won’t come to Holyrood. (PRO TIP: it’s “won’t”.)

“The Tories are not in power at Scotland” is a technically true statement, but in the context of welfare its relevance is inexplicable. Almost all of welfare is reserved to Westminster – despite the very-recent devolution of a small fraction of it – where the Tories very much ARE in power and have been for the best part of a decade.

The editorial describes Tomkins as “brave” for addressing the issue even though it points out that he hasn’t actually proposed anything yet. What we do know is that his solution isn’t the genuinely revolutionary and radical Universal Basic Income, because after advocating that policy in January last year he did an abrupt U-turn a few months later for no reason he’s ever outlined.

And to be honest, if we wanted to see something truly brave we’d invite whoever wrote the editorial to explain to an audience of benefits recipients how government welfare policy of the last couple of decades – under both Labour and the Tories – could be characterised by anyone with even a passing grip on sanity or basic human decency as “throwing money at the problem”.

And alert readers may recall that the Tories’ last bout of “fresh thinking” on welfare led to the calamitous and ruinous introduction of Universal Credit:

The cost to the taxpayer of inflicting this murderous disaster on the poor is now well into ELEVEN figures but the Tories are blundering on doggedly with it anyway.

Presumably on the grounds that it hasn’t thinned the numbers enough yet.

So the prospect of Adam Tomkins waggling his clueless oar of ideological dilettantism in their lives will, we suspect, bring the poor nothing but yet more boulders to pile onto the weight already crushing them with stress and anxiety.

Regardless of who’s in power at Holyrood, his party is responsible for the vast majority of this mess and it can’t be fixed in Edinburgh – at least not while Scotland remains part of the UK.

And as for why Scotland’s best-selling popular tabloid – a hard-won status that it didn’t earn by aping its revolting southern cousin – thinks it’s something worth applauding with blind optimism, we can only profess ourselves bewildered.

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    1. 27 02 18 13:56

      Here come the monsters again | speymouth

    471 to “Here come the monsters again”

    1. bobajock says:

      The MSM – unable to tell you that the Tories are responsible, and for decades have been screwing the poor.

      And now, a fre4sh way of screwing them more.

    2. heedtracker says:

      Professor Smirky should just stick to law lecturing and being my Slovene girlfriend, great kisser;-)

      Its toryboy’s like Prof T that only survive thanks to endless vote tory propaganda pouring out of Pacific Quay and all the tory press newsrooms in his Scotland fiefdom of toryboy rule and he even lies about that, shock!

    3. Auld Rock says:

      But are we not ‘Better Together’, don’make me cry.

    4. Bob Mack says:

      It appears the uneducated,the poor,the unskilled,and those unfotunate enough to lose their jobs are becoming a scourge to the fine health of the nation.

      Cutting their income again whilst they are in the time of their most desperate need sounds like a plan to me.

      So ,what can we do as good Conservative members? I know.
      Whilst we send home many EU migrants we can teach these people how to pick turnips and cabbages in the fields. Skills for life. Skills to build another Empire.

      My language at this point could become very colourful indeed, but suffice to say let us get away from these evil swine as soon as we can.

      Playing political, games with human lives only has a negative outcome detrimental to everybody.I have personally listened to many many such stories

      Depression,anxiety,suicide,hopelessness,helplessness,are all children of these political choices. Choose life.Choose SNP.Choose a future.

    5. Macart says:

      OFFS! Clearly there is some part of RESERVED our media and more particularly our politicians, fail to grasp.

      Would that a Scottish government did have control of welfare, not to mention our economy, our resources and our foreign affairs. Mind you it does suit both the meeja and the unionist political class to gloss over the whole devolved/reserved thing. The public shouldn’t worry their poor wee heads over complex issues kinda thing.

      In the interests of clarity however:

      http://www.parliament.scot/visitandlearn/Education/18642.aspx

      Folk will note that benefits and social security top the reserved issues list and the Tories are the current UK party of government.

      M’kay?

    6. galamcennalath says:

      Lack of knowledge and understanding about what is devolved and what is reserved is a huge issue.

      There should be no excuse, however, for ‘professionals’ in media and politics to not know exactly what the situation is.

      So, when is it genuine ignorance on part of the purveyor and when is it callously taking advantage of public ignorance?

      We know for a fact that the blurring of devolved and reserved powers is used continually by BritNats to make anti SNP/SG propaganda points or deflect from WM.

      Adam Tomkins will know exactly who is responsible. So he is simply ‘at it’ to deflect from WM’s disgraceful failings and perhaps get a bit of SNPBaad out of it too. As for the Scottish Sun, this may or may not be ignorance and stupidity.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      @ Galamcennalath,

      The Sun knows exactly what powers are devolved since they have been doing editorials on this very topic over the past three months regarding powers being retained by Westminster post Brexit. They know ,but on this occasion they “forgot”.

      Enemies of the Scottish people.

    8. Auldcynic says:

      The suns article says :“If throwing money at the problem was the cure, poverty would have been eradicated….”
      The dictionary says “Poverty is the scarcity or the lack of a certain amount of material possessions or money”
      So throwing money at the problem would sole it. At least it would if we threw enough in the right direction.

    9. galamcennalath says:

      The Rev says

      it can’t be fixed in Edinburgh …. while Scotland remains part of the UK

      Hey, that can be changed …. 😉

    10. Hamish100 says:

      Isn’t Jackie Burdy BBC smirky yoony old man not with the Sun? More propaganda

      Tory PPB – giv us your poor, your unwashed.etcetera cause we’re gonna f%&&&& ye

    11. heedtracker says:

      The suns article says :“If throwing money at the problem was the cure, poverty would have been eradicated….”

      Oh dear. So much non toryboy ignorance around in teamGB these days.

      You see, on UKOK planet toryboy, the only people that should have mountains of money thrown at them are the rich and the richer they are, the better, the betterTogether. And its merely because the really really UKOK rich know what to do with the money, that’s thrown at them.

      Everyone knows this fact of toryboy life in teamGB but only if they watch BBC Scotland gimp news,

      I lie:D

    12. Donald anderson says:

      My worry for those with collective amnesia is that it my make the other Tories look good.#

      Lest we Forget.

    13. Dan Huil says:

      “Smash poverty” Exterminate poor people!

      [This message was brought to you by British nationalist nutters and the britnat media]

    14. heedtracker says:

      This is nice, from the toryboy’s toryboy, who’s only got about £100 million to his name.

      https://www.ft.com/content/d5efd3a0-b32f-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1

      Henry Mance and Andy Bounds NOVEMBER 27, 2016 99
      It was billed as an act of generosity — a decision that would “save” a “key piece of northern heritage” for the nation.

      But Philip Hammond’s commitment in this week’s Autumn Statement to spend £7.6m on restoring Wentworth Woodhouse, England’s largest private home, also had a little-known beneficiary: the house happens to be ancestral home of the mother-in-law of Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Conservative MP who is among the chancellor’s noisiest critics.

      Mr Rees-Mogg said he had no involvement in the campaign to save Wentworth Woodhouse. But after hearing the Autumn Statement in which the funding was announced, he for once dropped his criticism of Mr Hammond and described his overall budget as “excellent”.

      “I liked the fact that there was only one gimmick. The fact that the gimmick was Wentworth Woodhouse I liked more,” said the backbencher, one of whose children has Wentworth as a middle name.

      The house is renowned as the inspiration for Jane Austen’s Pemberley, possibly erroneously given that there is no evidence that the author visited the estate. Its ill-repair dates from the post-war Labour government’s decision to allow coal mining in the gardens after the nationalisation of the coal industry in 1945. Mr Rees-Mogg described the move as “the most outrageous act of socialist envy”, although the Fitzwilliam family, the owners, had built their vast fortune from mining on their lands.

      I am not sure he’s ever been to Rotherham but we’d be glad to see him here

      John Healey, local Labour MP
      The Fitzwilliams moved out in 1946 and the house was put into a family trust. Lady Juliet Tadgell, the only child of the earl and now Mr Rees-Mogg’s mother-in-law, inherited the family fortune but not the home. She is one of the trustees of the Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust, which has raised £7m to acquire the house.

      Politicians involved with the campaign to save the stately home say they had no idea of Mr Rees-Mogg’s personal attachment to the property. “I am not sure he’s ever been to Rotherham but we’d be glad to see him here,” said John Healey, the local Labour MP. Robert Jenrick, the Conservative MP and heritage specialist, said Mr Rees-Mogg had “played no part in our lobbying of the chancellor”.

      Located in south Yorkshire, Wentworth Woodhouse is not very well known, reflecting its limited opening to the public as well as its unglamorous location near the M1, among the area’s former mines.”

      And so on. It gives my Slovene girlfriend a funny feeling in his UKOK special place too.

    15. Macart says:

      The political class and many amongst the media rely on the ignorance and apathy of the public. They count on the fact that most folk won’t be bothered to check on their claims or statements and accept the headline at face value. This isn’t the first time they’ve pulled this kind of stunt and it won’t be the last. Knowing where to look and what to look for is essential in translating policy wonk speak.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/12/04/theyre-not-using-what-now/

      Forewarned is forearmed.

    16. heedtracker says:

      The political class and many amongst the media rely on the ignorance and apathy of the public. They count on the fact that most folk won’t be bothered to check on their claims or statements and accept the headline at face value.

      Good points but the other toryboy msm whammy, in our bizarre tory rule double whammy, we as nations or a nation do not trust either our government or the massed ranks of UKOK hackdom, all howling at us to hate Holyrood with all the passion of a toryboy, like Prof Smirky up there, let alone SNP Scots gov… the horror, the UKOK horror…

      http://sciencenordic.com/why-do-nordics-trust-one-another

      We have for example, the great BBC Scotland gimp network here in Scotland, endlessly lying about everything really, in Scotland, even the freakin weather, but do we trust them?

      Ignorance is bliss, UKOK toryboy bliss.

    17. Bill not Ben says:

      Many years ago i got £30 for a week’s sick money, i put my national insurance stamp on my card faithfully every week.
      That whole week i was in bed with the flu so could not work for that week, i lost about £500 in earnings, and all i was entitled to was a £30 according to the state, my rent was £17 a week in those days, i bought my own house later btw, so i was supposed to pay all my bills, feed my wife and 3 kids on 30 quid, i had money put by for rainy days, but that is not the point, i paid into that system every week and when i needed it, it let me down badly.
      I have never trusted any government since apart from the SNP, and i have never regretted my distrust of any London based government ….. Alba Gu snooker loopy!

    18. Bill not Ben says:

      Over 30 years ago, self employed had to take to my bed with flu, lost about £500 in earnings, got 30 quid sickness money and my rent alone was £17 at that time, 3 kids and a wife to support.
      And i paid my national insurance every week by putting a little stamp on a card, so not much has changed in 30 years i can assure you, i did not mind paying, but i learned a very valuable lesson, pay some tax, but keep a handy little £200 a week for yourself, cause those fuckers would never leave me in the shit ever again

    19. Monica Worley says:

      Don’t forget employment law is also reserved. One way to help ease poverty is what the ScotGov is already doing – ‘encouraging’ higher wages. If we had all the employment powers, and welfare, we could make a difference in peoples lives.

    20. call me dave says:

      Big Auntie headline with ‘UK Snow’ but reports miss out Scotland.
      M20 now virtually a car park vehicles at a standstill. Jings!

      Humza Yousaf must resign…Oh wait!

      Shortbread news up next and will see to that though 🙂

      PS: Maybe but most unlikely.

      Take Commons seats and defend Ireland over Brexit, Sinn Fein is urged

      https://archive.is/B6YTk

    21. galamcennalath says:

      The Tories are a remnant from another era when politicians came from two camps – old money and new money. Those with no money had no vote.

      If the UK had an informed and critical electorate, there would be no Tories because their true voter base should be tiny. They get elected by hiding their true poshboy elitist nature from the masses, though their guard often drops. Some are the real posh deal, others are mimicking wannabes. A compliant media covers all their backs.

      That is not to say there wouldn’t be right wing parties. However, they would be more like European ones – either Christian Democrats or Populists. Nowhere has a party like the UK Tories. In the EU Parliament the UK Tories don’t align with ‘normal’ right parties, they are off with the other loonies.

    22. Elmac says:

      What a mind blowingly stupid article by the SUN and underlying comment by Tomkins. “So is it really fair to blame them for all the nation’s ills a generation later?”

      The levers of government, with very minor exceptions, rest with Westminster. Westminster has been controlled by the tories since 2010 and before that by their pretendy left-wing cohorts. It is their policies and incompetence that has led to the issues described in the article. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the competence or otherwise of the Scotish government of the day. For “throwing money at the problem” read cutting the overall UK budget for social security year on year – all thanks to the tories and their mates. They are totally responsible for the deprivation of a large part of our population and in a decent society they would be kicked out of office. Thanks to the SUN and the rest of the MSM they are never held to account and we have to endure crap of this nature ad finitum.

      Roll on independence and the opportunity to extract a measure of revenge for all the corruption and lies.

    23. Bill not Ben says:

      The great and much loved George Harrison wrote a song about the taxman, and its as relevent now as it was when he wrote it,
      george was not a greedy man, but i suppose he had to find all the cute ways to keep a bit more of his earnings, but don’t ever forget george gave lots to charity and did a tremendous amount for the poor in other countries, so what the taxman lost others less fortunate gained, nobody ever got fed by nuclear weapons, but the money saved by not having them could feed a lot of hungry people

    24. Clydebuilt says:

      Heedtracker @ 1.04pm

      The BBC . . . “But do we trust them”

      Mark Millar creator of KickAss “I don’t trust the BBC any more”

      http://indyref2.scot/mark-miller-i-dont-trust-the-bbc-anymore

    25. shouldn’t this waste of space and air not be on strike just now?
      He stood in our ward and was humiliated.
      Yet he gets in on the list vote, and now gets the full treatment of Stardom from the MSM.
      I’ve never bought The Sun, and doubt that I’d even glance at it in the Barber’s.
      England controls Welfare Spending. Adam Tomkins cut £29 billion from Public Spending in the last Parliament, and is currently working through £32 billion of Austerity ‘Savings’ to give JK Rowling a 5% cut in her vast earnings. People are dying and queueing at foodbanks, but it’s because they are alcoholics, druggies, or The Undeserving Poor.
      Tomkins, take running jump.
      I rejected you at the ballot box, as did my neighbours. Fuck right off, will you?

    26. Alistair Robertson says:

      Maybe his radical plan is independence. Lol.

    27. orri says:

      We’ve already had grumblings of the introduction of workfare schemes and supermarket chains taking advantage of unemployed workers compelled to take jobs or lose benefits.

      Given reports of food going to waste in fields due to lack of migrant labour to harvest it’s either going to take farmers raising the wages they offer or more compulsion on the unemployed to do the work.

      As time goes on more and more unskilled or low skilled jobs will be filled by the unemployed / idle poor.

      In time it might be seen as more efficient to provide accommodation withing walking distance of these places of employment.

      Probably over exaggerating with that last one.

    28. heedtracker says:

      Clydebuilt says:
      27 February, 2018 at 1:35 pm
      Heedtracker @ 1.04pm

      The BBC . . . “But do we trust them”

      Mark Millar creator of KickAss “I don’t trust the BBC any more”

      Gosh that’s interesting. Kickass is fantastic too.

      Ultimately we’re living in era where our elite rulers are coming under quite a lot of stress, from actually democracy really.

      They held Scotland down and out in 2014 but the beeb Scotland gimps are interesting to watch if only because they’re working so hard at getting Scots to distrust everything Scottish really.

      So ofcourse, according to the massed ranks of tory gimps in Pacific Quay, our nascent Sots democracy, our NHS, Scottish cops, shite trains, ofcourse our new parliament, uni’s, everything is shite in Scotland, we cannot trust our elected reps, our medics, our police…

      We can only trust planet toryboy, in conjunction with the great beeb gimp network, it must be true, Jacky Bird says so and because, there’s been a murder, the beast from the east is also coming to get you, hiding under your Scottish beds.

      Rule toryboy Britannia 2.0, in conjunction with Orange Hitler, who’ll save Scots from a fate worse than Scottish nation statehood, forever.

      And don’t get the beeb gimps going on how shite the evil and cruel EU really weally is.

    29. Iain mhor says:

      If you find yourself after decades of being an upstanding tax paying citizen (albeit on a low wage) suddenly unemployed, with no savings or familial support; you can and will (with a high probability factor) be made destitute within 24hrs.
      One sanction is all it takes, usually swiftly followed by another and that’s you finished, there is no recovering.

      No gas, no electricity, no phone and £34 to feed yourself week to week (if you are lucky) Just accumulating a pile of envelopes from the government, banks, council, sheriffs and debt collectors behind the door of your cold and empty flat – devoid of all the belongings you sold and pawned in a vain attempt to survive in the short term – until all that’s left to you after 9 months is a broken mind.

      This is your country today and tomorrow and the day after that.
      Think it can’t happen to you? Think again.
      A radical change is indeed required – just not the one they’re considering.

    30. artyhetty says:

      Workhouses, for those over 26, and ‘national service’ for anyone under 26, hopefully after they are 18, but it could be 16. And of course the UKOK Gov will be throwing even more EU citizens out of their disgusting UK, plus anyone they don’t want in Scotland will be thrown out, as they are doing now.

      They will have an army to pick all that veg that the farmers will be growing. Who will be able to afford to buy it is anyone’s guess.

      Always had this vision of having armed guards at allotments when things get dystopian, but I guess they will just let people kill each other for a few tatties and onions!

      Parents, if you are poor, your children will be taken into service by the state at age 16, unless you can leave and live in a more modern, 21st century country, or vote for independence in Scotland and soon.

      To think that people are going hungry, and many are homeless because of the actions of a government, who are paid hugely to represent those people, is just beyond anything that resembles a democracy, and it is inhuman.

      It’s incredubly immoral, and criminal. The criminals are at the helm, that is already a dystopian nightmare for many. It is 2018, right now, isn’t it?

    31. Sinky says:

      A bit ironic that Tomkins favourite football team has a photo of a women on the dressing room wall who lives on state benefits but doesn’t pay the Bedroom Tax on her 775 room home.

    32. Bob Mack says:

      Was it not Voltaire who during the period of enlightment said
      “We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation”.

      It was true then,and seems to be true now.

    33. mogabee says:

      Scarily, the Sun and other papers pushed the idea of ‘scroungers’ and ‘skivers’ in conjunction with BBC and a rolling programme of trash shows and the ‘undeserving’ benefit claimants.

      Is that the profs new policy idea?

      I would love to hear how he thinks poverty can be eliminated as all indications are that he and his Tory bedfellows are the very ones making it worse.

    34. Highland Wifie says:

      “An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of any republic.”
      Plutarch (around 2nd Century!)

      It will certainly prove to be fatal for the UK. There are no words to describe the immorality of the present incumbents at Westminster. The way the poor and vulnerable are treated is a disgrace but it seems no shame is felt by any of those responsible. For most of these highly privileged people the biggest financial decision they’ve ever had to make is which of their homes to flip.
      Anyone who has ever experienced poverty for however short a time is in no doubt of the impact it has physically, mentally and spiritually.
      We need out so that we can build a country fit for our citizens to live and work in with pride.
      Indyref2 coming soon.

    35. Tinto Chiel says:

      When Tories says the answer is not throwing money at a problem, you know for sure they will have absolutely no compunction about syphoning even more of the lovely stuff into their own pockets.

      It’s just gotta be socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. I’m pretty sure the “privatised” train network gets bigger subsidies now than the old nationalised system, for example.

      When they whine about EU red tape, it’s actually our rights, health and consumer protection they’re talking about. You know, them “costly” things that affect their bottom line. Let’s go back to 60s UK, where an awful lot of stuff was chanky, unhealthy and cars rusted in front of your eyes.

    36. Sinky says:

      The National, first newspaper explaining Scottish Government’s important Continuity Bill to stop Westminster’s power grab.

      http://thenational.scot/news/16051791.Nicola_Sturgeon_reveals_Scotland_s_alternative_Brexit_Bill_in_dramatic_clash_with_Westminster/

    37. Bill not Ben says:

      At least we in scotland have a way out, next time lets not be so politically correct, its time to call a spade a spade, expose the liars at every turn, and don’t mince your words when doing it, after all you would not put up with it in your everyday life, so go for it with the venom of truth and transparency, expose the liars, tell the truth and shame the devil

    38. paul says:

      How could anyone come to the conclusion that throwing money at those with inadequate incomes does not work?
      It has never been considered, let alone tried.

      Bless his fearful, unionist arse, but Broon’s improvements to old age pensions certainly made a difference to my parents, but it was hardly throwing money at them.

      There are plenty of examples of the vermin throwing money at their constituencies with demonstrably disastrous effects which should trouble a responsible man such as the nutty professor:
      Universal Credit
      The financial sector (esp the Banks)
      ‘Free’ schools
      Large housebuilders
      Railway franchisees
      Olympic organisers
      Prison franchisees
      Nuclear power
      Nuclear weapons
      Online retailers
      Telecoms companies

      Add your own, or look here

    39. galamcennalath says:

      Tinto Chiel says:

      Let’s go back to 60s UK

      Listening to some of them, 1860s with good queen Vic, when half the world was being ripped off by ‘trade’, all forced down their throats at the point of a bayonet or by gunboat.

      There’s an awful lot of anti UK feeling out there and if they get as far as seeking 21stC trade agreements it will be the UK getting ripped off this time round!

    40. Calum McKay says:

      ‘The editorial describes Tomkins as “brave” for addressing the issue even though it points out that he hasn’t actually proposed anything yet.’

      If I declare that british foreign policy is not working or that brexit is not working, and offer no solutions to either, am I ‘brave’ in the eyes of the sun?

      tories are toxic on all fronts, my solution to their eradication is not to vote for them!

      I am a genius, I’ve identified a problem and proposed a solution!

    41. Thepnr says:

      The idea of welfare was that if you were unable to work then you were given some money to help you survive. However, since the perceived cost was increasing every year criticism has been mounting. Namely:

      The money is raised by taxes on middle and upper class people, this causing resentment. They complain that money went to people who were lazy and did not want to work.

      Critics also suggest that allowance systems made the situation worse because they encouraged poor people to have children that they could not afford to look after.

      Another criticism was that it keeps workers’ wages low because employers know that wages will be supplemented by money provided by the state.

      I am talking above not of today’s situation but of when the Poor Law was introduced in 1815 which is where I got the above and slightly modified.

      Not much has changed then in would seem in Tory Britain today.

      The law was then changed (1834) to reduce the cost of looking after the poor as it stopped money going to poor people except in exceptional circumstances.

      Now if people wanted help they had to go into a workhouse to get it. The poor were given clothes and food in the workhouse in exchange for several hours of manual labour each day.

      Families were split up inside the workhouse. People had to wear a type of uniform, follow strict rules and were on a bad diet of bread and watery soup.

      Conditions were made so terrible that only those people who desperately needed help would go there.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/shp/britishsociety/thepoorrev1.shtml

    42. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Heedtracker (1.57) –

      ‘We can only trust planet toryboy, in conjunction with the great beeb gimp network, it must be true, Jacky Bird says so and because, there’s been a murder, the beast from the east is also coming to get you, hiding under your Scottish beds.’

      🙂 🙂 🙂

    43. schrodingers cat says:

      artyhetty

      after the first gulf war, while returning by boat, along the coast of saudi, via the suez canal and the med, an american i was with remarked that we had just had a war for oil and that logic dictated that one day we would have a war for rice.

      as we passed by somalia, I realised that the civil war currently raging there was was a fight for exatly that. it wasnt a rising for democracy, religion, social change, emancipation etc, it was a vicious scrabble for food (UN supplies the only source)

    44. Jack Murphy says:

      OFF TOPIC.Amendments to the EU Withdrawal Bill as reported by:

      BBC Wales Today

      AND

      BBC Reporting Scotland

      Spot the difference?

      https://tinyurl.com/y77rbvkg

    45. Bob Mack says:

      Imagine the upper and wealthy middle class complaining about their taxes going to waste on welfare. Well to be honest I would have to imagine it because in reality it seems that a helluva lot of these groups spend all their time concealing or avoiding their tax dues,

      In effect, complaining about nothing relevant to themselves.

    46. Al Dossary says:

      @ Bob Mack,

      Fully agree with what you say. Much furore was made around the Scottish budget this year, with their £1k or so extra tax on the £100k earners.

      Yet not a bloody peep from the Yoon papers about the Dividend tax that was brought in for the self employed.

      That tax alone is 7.5% on the first £43k of taxable dividends. Every single penny of it going to HMRC in London.

      https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends

    47. winifred mccartney says:

      You can be certain if the tories are in any way involved they will throw less money at any welfare issue, and then they will twist and turn the rhetoric to try to make us believe they are doing this for our own good.

      Handing out benefits for a stately pile or very large castles with all their occupants is a thank you for what they do for us. Believe that and you will believe anything.Surely we have learned our lesson and will not be fooled again. The tories only care about the rich, the priviledged and their ‘own kind’ and RD is being duped into believing they could ever want her for a seat or anything else down south. She is just a tool being used for their benefit just like Scotland is and the only reason they want to keep us is for the black gold that is keeping them afloat.

    48. artyhetty says:

      Re; Iain Mhor@2pm

      I know you didn’t mean anything by it, but it’s not just ‘working’ people who are tax paying. Everyone has to pay some tax, ie, VAT.

      I remember when thatcher the milk snatcher whacked 17.2% VAT on fuel bills! They had never been taxed before. That kind mr Brown took it down to 5% being as it’s a freaking luxury to have some heating, that’s right MrBrown, a luxury.

      Great article and comments today, and on form, heedtrcaker@1.57pm. ‘Scottish beds’! 🙂 :-}

    49. Brian Powell says:

      Interesting on the devolved governments and the UK gov withholding powers, Severin Carrell in the Guardian trying to make the Welsh Gov seem to be a player in the discussions.

      Carwyn Jones is a very minor walk-on in the drama. Without Nicola Sturgeon pushing all the debate he would have never even have got to this stage, but would have just gone with whatever came along from the Tories.

      It highlights how people are let down by the press.

    50. Graeme McCormick says:

      The Tories don’t want an Annual Ground Rent because they think it will adversely affect their land owning supporters. While there is a fair amount to be made from AGR on rural Scotland the big money as a means of public funding comes from urban Scotland where land and buildings in public and private ownership have remained unproductive for generations. A Universal Citizen’s Income of £10,000 for everyone in Scotland could be provided by just by just £7.124 per square metre on urban land types while abolishing all other UK and Scottish taxes and increase other current public services( not replaced by the Citizen’s Income)

    51. artyhetty says:

      Re;Jack Murphy @2.49

      That woman reporter, ‘ out brexit correspondent’, lol, forgot to say that brexit would leave Scotland smaller! It would ‘leave the 4 parts of the UKok weaker, poorer and less secure’. Well, surely we all feel much safer in the (dysfunctional) family of UKOK. Warm, cosy, wanted, loved, and respected.

      So no need to get under the covers all terrified in your ‘Scottish beds’, we really are better together. :-/

      Anyone watch the talk on Truly Scottish TV? One of the sections I can’t remember which one, was a TED talk by an expert, a real one, on nuclear. It’s enough to terrify anyone. Live each day as if it were your last, anywhere, but especially in Scotland with that warm, cosy, fuzzy UKOK Trident in your waters, and that UKOK weapons store under one of your mountains! Feeling cosy, and safe, now, not!

    52. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s always the possibility that Tomkins and the Tories are being set up. On the other hand Tomkins has been a bit of a surprise at times, not your actual standard Tory, and perhaps the Sun is trying to push him in the right (or should I say left) direction.

    53. Tinto Chiel says:

      Schrodinger’s cat: “after the first gulf war, while returning by boat, along the coast of saudi, via the suez canal and the med, an american i was with remarked that we had just had a war for oil and that logic dictated that one day we would have a war for rice.”

      The concluding scene of Three days of The Condor, a 1975 thriller directed by Sydney Pollack, made essentially the same point. In those days I thought it pretty far-fetched.

      Not anymore, of course.

    54. Robert Peffers says:

      There is one overall statistic that tells the unvarnished truth.

      In this Tory run United Kingdom, which imposes what the Tory Government calls austerity measures, the poor are being subjected to ever more increasingly austere measures.

      Simultaneously all measures reflecting hardship, poverty, homelessness and premature deaths continually rise as the top strata of the most wealthy people in the United Kingdom continue to increase and have now more than doubled their personal wealth.

      You cannot be under Austerity Measures while increasing your personal wealth. Neither can you be increasing that wealth other than at the expense of the poor who are becoming increasingly poorer.

      All Tory Government claims of required austerity measures are thus downright lies specifically designed to take cash from the poor to give it to the rich.

    55. yesindyref2 says:

      @Sinky
      Yes, things moving apace now, Cactus’s and Ronnie’s Quickening.

      Wolffe will be champing at the bit for the court if the SG get challenged, the UKSC Miller appeal was just a dry run for what is to come.

      Ironically, if devolution itself is threatened, and Scotland’s right to pass legislation within Scots Law which is protected, and the only solution is to come totally out of the UK, then the SG would be mandated to go through with that without a referendum, though it would be democratically advisable to confirm that afterewards with a referendum. Similar to what the UK did back in 1975 with the Common Market.

    56. Liz g says:

      Artyhetty @ 3.19
      Well said Artyhetty it’s always worth pointing out that Everyone pays Tax.

      Infact there is almost no human activity on daily basis that the government Don’t get a cut of.

      Even just sitting at home reading a book the Standing Charges on the power meters are still ticking up revenue for HMRC.

      I never tolerate anyone sayin that there are tax payer’s and non tax payer’s.
      And there’s the social contract right there,if we can’t opt out of paying them and actually survive on our own,because they claim ownership of all the resources then they Must provide the means of surviving….its that simple.

    57. thomaspotter2014 says:

      NOW is the time to end this madness.
      Dissolve the Treaty of ‘Union’s and do it asap.
      This cannot be allowed to continue.

    58. yesindyref2 says:

      @thomaspotter2014
      Not yet, patience mon brave!

      Westminster can still back off, and the SG has to wait for that.

      But in terms of the Claim of Right 1689, Scotland voted 74.6% YES to a devolved Parliament in 1997, and that is our right which Westminster CAN NOT remove.

    59. jfngw says:

      Just waiting on the BBC to report that the Russians are super cooling the air destined for the UK. The latest attempt at cloud hacking by Russian Siberia meddlers.

    60. Glamaig says:

      Jack Murphy 27 February, 2018 at 2:49 pm

      and, same O/T:

      on the BBC Scotland page:
      ‘Nicola Sturgeon rejects offer in Brexit devolution row’

      on the BBC Wales page:
      ‘Welsh Brexit powers bill push by ministers’

      …even though its essentially the same story – spot the difference in framing, and the personalisation of ‘Sturgeon rejects’ complete with unflattering photo. The Scotland story also appears on the UK page, attracting large numbers of the most unpleasant UKIP/Brexit, Scotland hating fascist types in the HYS.

      The Welsh story has no HYS.

    61. harry mcaye says:

      artyhetty – I agree, the TED talk on nuclear war was terrifying. I was ignorant of the fact that if even India and Pakistan exchange nuclear bombs it would pretty much spell the end for humanity as the nuclear winter it would bring about would eventually kill all the crops. All it takes is one nutter and at the moment it seems we’re spoiled for choice!

    62. call me dave says:

      Ken Macintosh’s judgement of the legislative competence of the continuity bill, … err…NO!

      Hotel California…check out any time but you can never leave.

    63. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Hamish100 at 12.31

      Bob Bird (ex hubby of Jackie Bird) and Andy Collier were editor and deputy editor of thew Sun in Scotland when it came out with the “Rise now and be a nation again” front page on the eve of an election.

    64. Sinky says:

      Re Ken Mcakintosh standing up for Westminster according to The National the Welsh Presiding Officer has given approval for a Welsh Continuity Bill.

      From The National

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16051791.nicola-sturgeon-reveals-scotlands-alternative-brexit-bill-in-dramatic-clash-with-westminster/?ref=mr&lp=1

      Is the Continuity Bill within the powers of the Scottish Parliament?

      The Scottish Ministers are satisfied that the Continuity Bill is within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. The Lord Advocate has confirmed that position as he is required to do before a bill is sent to the Presiding Officer. We also understand that the Welsh Presiding Officer has signed off the Welsh Bill as competent. However, we do not have confirmation that the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament will also do so. That issue will be resolved today.

      In the event of him deciding against giving the Bill a certificate the law and our standing orders still allow the bill to be introduced.

    65. Greannach says:

      So Two-Jobs Tomkins has been doing some hard thinking, has he? What a hero.

    66. Hamish100 says:

      Ken McIntosh has as presiding officer been a failure.

      His main role (from Scottish Parliament website) is thus described. ‘The Presiding Officer remains politically impartial in everything that he does’

      Really?

    67. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Jack Murphy @ 14:49,

      Thanks for the heads-up on that. Also good to see that G A Ponsonby is still keeping his own sharp eye on the state broadcaster and its devious little ways.

      We here in Scotlandshire are definitely the wild savages who have to be severely told by matron to get back in our little box and not scare the horses.

      Funnily enough, I stumbled upon a drama on R4 this afternoon about how media mogul Louis B Mayer operated against Upton Sinclair’s campaign for governorship of California in 1934 by creating a fake newsreel company that literally staged false vox-pops played by actors, the well-dressed looking ones all railing against Sinclair and the “down-and-outs” supporting him.

      This was the campaign which produced Sinclair’s famous retrospective quote “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it”.

      I just wondered if some wage-slave prisoner of the Beeb was trying to tell us something, or if the implicit irony for us here in North Britain was entirely unintended!

    68. If JC.,is really wanting to end poverty he should promise that if labour get into power there will be no more tax loopholes none no where to hide for the rich cheaters as Gandhi said the worst form of violence is poverty

    69. manandboy says:

      Tompkins has the manner and demeanour of a man who managed to slip into one of the Titanic’s lifeboats – via the List system, and who, looking back to the stricken ship, has some advice to offer those still on board, many of whom were immigrants seeking a better life in the New World, but who are now destined for a watery grave.

      Personally, I’d gladly throw him overboard.

    70. Derick fae Yell says:

      Ken McIntosh’s reasoning on legislative competence is truly bizarre.

      To paraphrase “these powers don’t exist yet so it’s not possible to prepare for them until such time as they do” (when it will be too late)

      Most peculiar

    71. manandboy says:

      The appointment of Ken McIntosh was a mistake then and ever since. Very disappointing that such an error was made. An example of inclusivity I suppose.

    72. Glamaig says:

      OT – It seems that the Welsh and Scottish governments, the Welsh Presiding officer, and the Scottish Lord Advocate all believe the Continuity Bills are competent. Only Ken Mackintosh disagrees…

    73. call me dave says:

      Patrick Harvie supporting the continuity bill going ahead as expected and the whole devolution agreement of 1979. 🙂

      Ruthie’s not a happy bunny sitting there.

      Mike Rumbles questions the term ‘Emergence Bill’.

      PO: says there is not a requirement for Emergence Bill to have unanimous support. 🙂

      Politics in Scotland this month ending with a bang after all.

    74. Brian Powell says:

      I wonder what the two deputy Presiding Officers thought?

    75. Robert Louis says:

      An epic fail by Ken Mackintosh today. What a clown, to say what he did. A real ‘proud scot but’. Not fit to hold that prestigious office and the honour that comes with it.

      Glad to see the Scot gov getting the gloves off. It is time Westminster and the arrogant English ministers were told in no uncertain terms, Scotland does not want brexit, and it will certainly not allow you to destroy our parliament.

      The Scots Parliament was voted for by the people of Scotland, it is not a plaything for some English nobodies in Westminster to unilaterally declare changed. It belongs to the people of Scotland, NOT Theresa May and her Tory ilk.

      Down in Westminster they probably won’t even know about the Scottish and Welsh continuity bills, until long after they are approved. That is how arrogant and out of touch they have become in Westminster.

    76. Ananurhing says:

      Just been researching 20thC Norway. Trying to put together a potted history suitable for primary school age children. Naturally I got side tracked.

      It’s been like pulling back the curtains, opening a window, and breathing some clean fresh air. Long before oil and gas came along, they were doing everything they could as a newly independent country to raise the living standards of their largely poor rural dwelling population. Housing, poverty, education, health care, and hydro electricity production.

      Nowadays, 98% are satisfied with their housing conditions. 82% home ownership. 61% of 16-24 age group own their homes. 77% of 25-44 age group.

      By law, every house must have a fireplace and chimney in case the power goes down. 98% of energy production from renewables. The cost of electricity goes down when it rains a lot. Three back up gas power stations, just in case. (Hardly ever used)

      A wee lesson in how to eradicate poverty, driven by the state. What’s more, is they’ve done it deliberately. Read it and weep Scotland.

      http://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-production-in-norway/id2343462/

      http://www.ssb.no/en/bygg-bolig-og-eiendom/statistikker/bo/hvert-3-aar/2015-11-25

    77. Dr Jim says:

      Nick Eardley said the FM was in London to make a speech on Brexit today, so far I’ve seen Boris Jonhson Liam Fox various Tory Brexiters newspaper Brexiters and even the number ten cat but no sign of Scotlands FM

      Is this a case of everybody and their wife if they’re UKIP or Tory can get on the Telly if you say the right thing and toe the media line but if you happen to be the Scottish FM you can only use social media to get your message out so F..k you Scotland

      So I guess we’ll look forward to Misreporting Scotland where we’ll see pictures of the FMs lips moving while Toodle oo the Noo tells us his version of what she said

    78. Vestas says:

      Did anyone seriously think that git McIntosh would do anything other than obey his Labour masters?

      If the Lord Advocate says its legal McIntosh must resign immediately, not just from his position but as an MSP.

      Don’t hold your breath – he’ll never find any morality in a million years.

    79. Iain mhor says:

      @artyhetty 3.05pm

      You’re right,it was just a turn of phrase and you’re quite correct to remind us that tax is levied on everyone, regardless of circumstances, via indirect taxation.

      On another note : I see Ryannair is pulling out of Glasgow Airport citing the Scottish goverment’s failure to reduce APD /ATD – no its Brexit, no lesser demand, err something something… Prestwick, Edinburgh, Aberdeen is not the ehmm same because err uncertainty surrounding ehh – SNP baaad! errr Brexit!

    80. Robert Peffers says:

      @call me dave says: 27 February, 2018 at 4:21 pm:

      “Ken Macintosh’s judgement of the legislative competence of the continuity bill, … err…NO!”

      Ken Macintosh’s judgment?

      He should have stuck to playing with his instrument and band leading:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM2n-bxh2JM

    81. ronnie anderson says:

      The Sovereignty of Scots law will be put to the test over this bill , to try and delay it .

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @Greannach says: 27 February, 2018 at 4:47 pm:

      “So Two-Jobs Tomkins has been doing some hard thinking, has he? What a hero.”

      I didn’t know Tompkins was hard of thinking but had long suspected it to be so.

    83. yesindyref2 says:

      I think the PO is part of the dance, not the party-pooper.

    84. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says: 27 February, 2018 at 5:07 pm:

      “The appointment of Ken McIntosh was a mistake then and ever since. Very disappointing that such an error was made. An example of inclusivity I suppose.”

      Not really. It was just a matter of all three Westminster controlled unionist parties standing together as unionists to outvote the SNP.

    85. wull2 says:

      It is getting worse, I can not see the squirrels for the snow, or is someone making a speech at the end of the week.

    86. Cubby says:

      As I have said before Ken Macintosh becoming Presiding officer is just another example of how dysfunctional our democracy is in Scotland. His voters reject him (3rd place) and he gets to be an MSP from the LIST and then becomes Presiding Officer. Rewarded for failure.
      The processes for electing MSPs were designed by the Britnats. Turns my stomach seeing that statue in Buchanan st , Glasgow of The Dewar.

    87. call me dave says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Good choice there Mr Peffers. 🙂

      @ronnie anderson

      Your probably right.

    88. Capella says:

      Ken Macintosh’s statement saying the Scottish Parliament is not competent to pass the legislation because the Westminster Bill has not yet been passed. The Lord Advocate disagrees.
      https://tinyurl.com/ydfslxse

      The Scottish Ministers are ignoring him. Good for them.

    89. ronnie anderson says:

      The election of Ken McIntosh to the position of Presiding Officer was something the SNP couldn’t avoid because of the slim majority they had & for a SNP MSP to take the position that would leave the SNP one vote short on any given vote .

    90. Rick H Johnston says:

      So called Scottish Sun letting the Tories off the hook on their culpability in grinding the faces of the poor.
      Well exposed Stuart.
      Gie them a chance? Nae chance.
      Hell mend them mair like.

    91. Capella says:

      @ Iain Mohr – the Sottish Government doesn’t get the right to alter APD until April 2018. So Ryanair are talking nonsense.

      See timetable in our “Citizens Guide” pdf:
      http://www.parliament.scot/EducationandCommunityPartnershipsresources/Your_Guide_Mar_2016.pdf

    92. Clootie says:

      …it will all continue until two key changes take place
      a) The people being hit hardest start to VOTE.They need to Register first!
      b) Everyone gets behind ONE Party until Independence is achieved.
      I don’t want a raft of protests in reply…nothing will happen to change Scotland until we unite for one cause, under one banner via one party. Everyone can go their own way once we have the power to actually change things.

      I am sick off narrow minded short sighted people pushing their little slant via Holyrood posturing, misleading Socialist Utopian rants or any other myopic viewpoint.

      An Independent Scotland will have the full range of political opinions at Holyrood after Independence. No one will get exactly what they want BUT the outcome will be far,far better than any right wing policy from Westminster.

      Get behind the SNP or create a new party for Independence but for progress to be attained STOP letting the London elite measure our resolve on seat changes and split votes.

      The old empire loves division and at the last election the LibDem voters embraced Tories to protect their union while we squabble about petty differences in our politics.

    93. Andy-B says:

      LBC radio reporting that Boris Johnson has smashed the office window of John Bercow at Westminster with a snow ball.

    94. winifred mccartney says:

      Cootie 5.46 absolutely right – divide and rule the mantra of GB in every ‘colony’ and that is how they regard Scotland.

      As for Ken McIntosh – the most hopeless PO ever – unable to make decisions and letting RD away with murder on several occassions – her ‘meltdown’ of SNHS was a ‘point of order’ rubbish, telling the FM to ‘sit down’ he is unable to think on his feet and only reacts after events as seen a few weeks ago.

      After all he is only following orders – good on them to ministers for ignoring him – the best thing to do.

    95. Dr Jim says:

      Yoons on Twitter think *competence* means you’re not very good at something

      My 11 year old grandaughter knows the difference
      Of course she goes to a modern SNP school where they get defunishuns an spelinn stuff wae books n at

    96. Dr Jim says:

      The problem’s going to come over the Goons who are prepared to vote against Independence because the SNP support a connection to the EU

      Big Picture Goons

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella
      Heavy reading but interesting. Basically he emphasises he has no veto, it’s up to Parliament, and that it’s up to courts to decide legislative copmetence, but he has a duty to give an opinion, and his opinion is that it’s not legislatively competent as, as Derick fae Yell says, it hasn’t happened yet.

      So the dance continues. Take your partners!

    98. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Clootie The voting system has to be changed to 1st past the post enough of this foisted on us honky tonk system , lets see if the Unionists would argue against a Bill to change the voting system in Scotland

    99. jfngw says:

      I presume one of these presiding officers is going to tender a resignation. Obviously they can’t both be correct as they have come to opposite decisions based on the same evidence.

    100. PictAtRandom says:

      Glamaig says:
      27 February, 2018 at 5:10 pm

      OT – It seems that the Welsh and Scottish governments, the Welsh Presiding officer, and the Scottish Lord Advocate all believe the Continuity Bills are competent. Only Ken Mackintosh disagrees…

      So in theory Cardiff could move ahead of Edinburgh. All respect to the Welsh but…!!!

      (I don’t suppose there’s any mechanism for a group of Norn Iron MPs requesting a debate in this type of situation?)

    101. yesindyref2 says:

      @Capella
      A further minute’s thought and it seems to me he’s protecting the good name of the Scottish Parliament regardless of Governments and Oppositions by playing it safe, and for that he should actually be commended. His opinion isn’t binding in any case.

    102. Andy-B says:

      Surely McIntosh must now resign as Presiding officer, his outburst in my opinion has left his position untenable.

    103. Golfnut says:

      @ yesindyref2
      Re Ken Macintosh, have to disagree I’m afraid. Ken gave the media a stick to rubbish the SG, which is only to be expected from a member of Scotland onUnion.

    104. Bill Hume says:

      Re…list vote MPs.
      Should we not have another party, one which would back the SNP to the hilt, to stand in these sort of elections?
      It could be called the Scottish independence party (or frankly anything else it wanted to be called). This would dilute the second preference votes a great deal and could stop the ‘list vote Tory has beens’ in their tracks.

    105. Sinky says:

      STV getting as bad as BBC their evening news report failed to mention that the Welsh P.O.approved the equivalent bill despite not being the strongest devolved parly in the whole wide world

    106. yesindyref2 says:

      @Golfnut
      Maybe.

      My position, controversial as always, is that if the Presiding Officer (as opposed to Ken Macintosh) is diligently doing his duty to protect the Scottish Parliament and its integrity and reputation, then he’s doing what he should be doing, and what over 90% of Scotland want, as it’s less than 10% want to abolish it.

      And in that respect, if that’s what he’s doing, I support him 100%.

    107. HandandShrimp says:

      The Tories as ever will get as far as determining that there are indeed many underlying causes of poverty and simply throwing money at the problem is not enough. They will therefore cut the money but not bother addressing any of the underlying problems.

    108. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      That statement on the competence of a Continuity Bill by Ken Macintosh as Presiding Officer for the Scottish Parliament has made me think more clearly about the situation people such as himself are now in.

      Labour of course supported a No vote and went full on Better Together mode in the run up to 2014, they cannot now backpedal.

      They are in a trap of their own making and there is no escape, no matter what they truly believe or how circumstances have changed, they themselves can’t be seen to change. The hole they dug was too deep and they can no longer scramble out so they just keep digging hoping that they’ll burst through the bottom eventually.

      It’s obvious that Labour will not change their stance one iota on Independence, well in that case we’ll have to change it for them. Never under any circumstance vote for a Labour candidate until Scotland is an Independent country.

      They had numerous chances and it’s about time the rubbish Scotland has collected over the years was dumped on the heap.

    109. dakk says:

      manandboy says:
      27 February, 2018 at 4:58 pm
      Tompkins has the manner and demeanour of a man who managed to slip into one of the Titanic’s lifeboats – via the List system,

      Spot on.

      Wasn’t he some kind of communist republican a few years back?

      A la comrades Lord Darling,Lord Reid and British Nationalist extrordinaire George Galloway.All Labour really.

      Maybe the Proof is just going back to his roots. Aye right.

    110. Capella says:

      @ yesindyref2 – I like John Swinney’s short but sweet riposte saying, basically, “I think it is competent”.

      Let’s see whose view prevails?

    111. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      So the dance continues. Take your partners!

      Will it be the Rule Brittania Twostep, the Indy Reel, the Gay Gordon Tories, the Dashing White Sturgeon, Strip the Westminster, or the Holyrood Scottische? 🙂

      A wild ceilidh, that’s for sure!

    112. dakk says:

      Meant Prof.

    113. Bob Mack says:

      Can Presiding Officer now overule the opinion of the Lord Advocate in legal matters ? That would be novel.

    114. Golfnut says:

      @yesindyref2

      Sinky says at 6:31 made my point for me. Macintosh has form and if he really wanted to defend the integrity of our Parliament he would have used some of the opportunities provided by the Tories to do just that

    115. jfngw says:

      Oh Dear, BBC Rep Scot seems to have missed the Lord Advocates advice and the fact the same is happening in Wales. Sure it is just an over-site, what else could it be!

    116. Highland Wifie says:

      @Ananurhing
      By coincidence I have been reading a book by Michael Booth (Englishman living in Denmark) which is a fairly comprehensive description of each of the Nordic countries from the perspective of an English expat. If you can get past the initial feeling that the author is a bit arrogant with the same degree of entitlement found in most Britnats, the book is really interesting and entertaining.
      I found my attitude to the author softening as he described how he felt about attending Norway’s Constitution Day.

      “The overwhelming impression I had that day , standing on the broad,clean streets of Oslo, was of a country wholly at ease with itself, of a people basking not just in vast material wealth but in an equally valuable civil cohesion deeply rooted in a shared history: a solid national spiritual capital , if you like.”
      And then further on:-
      ” In the end I spent a very happy couple of hours on the streets of central Oslo watching the traditional parade of children -a good many of them ethnically non-Norwegian – from kindergarten age to teenagers, and I envied Norway that day.”
      And this after he had spent a few pages poking fun at the way everyone dresses up for this day.
      Finally he said ” …I had to fight myself to stop from crying.”
      To get an Englishman to cry in these circumstances is pretty impressive don’t you think?!

      That’s the kind of nation we want Scotland to be. Inclusive, proud, at ease with ourselves, in control of our country.

    117. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – I haven’t seen the Parliament debate but see on the BBC website that Neil Findlay is, indeed, in a bit of a fankle over where this leaves Labour:

      The Scottish Labour MSP says he has concern the Welsh government can present competent legisaltion on this issue but the Scottish government has not.
      He asks what happens if the continuity bill is passed despite the presiding officer saying it is not within Holyrood’s competence.

      https://tinyurl.com/y7lh39jb

    118. Gary45% says:

      If “Sally” Tomkins is genuinely interested in helping to rid the country of the despair of poverty, his “Masters” will be getting “shot of him pretty soon”.
      A Tory interested in the “ordinary people”??.(one cannot survive on only one bottle of bolly whilst the servants bring the quails eggs and Beluga caviar for ones elevenses).

      Methinks Fuddery is afoot.

    119. jfngw says:

      Have we discovered Westminster’s man in Holyrood! Once your political affiliations compromise your professional decision making it’s time to go.

    120. Iain mhor says:

      @Capella 5:45pm

      Thanks for the link – handy guide.
      Though you could smell their shi*e for miles 🙂

    121. Ananurhing says:

      @Highland Wifie 6.55

      I’ll look out for his book. Years ago I spent a lot of time in Denmark, and was lucky to work in Norway and Finland as well.

      I asked a lot of questions and the experience politicised me. I was super impressed by the way they ran their countries, and looked after each other. No one seemed to be particularly exercised about politics, and yet it was obvious they felt completely in control over how they were governed, locally and nationally.

      When I was in Norway there was a GE and a televised debate was scheduled between the incumbent and opposition leaders.
      It was cancelled as there was very little disagreement between them.

      They just seemed to get things done without the ideological acrimony.

    122. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      It is actually old news but seems to have surfaced again today for some odd reason – the old “we’ll not build warships in independent Scotland [but don’t say anything about our deterrent please please pretty please let us keep it there for a few years while we move it]” (bit in square brackets my addition).

      https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/scotland-unable-compete-royal-navy-warship-orders-independent-confirms-ministry-defence/#comment-402036

      So yeah, take your warships away from the Clyde including building them if you want, but that means ALL OF THEM at the same time. Good luck with that, Bebb, you dickhead.

    123. geeo says:

      @jfngw

      Not so in this article.

      http://archive.is/AG1ew

      For those with a thing against the Greens..you surely fully agree with Harvie here..

      “Scottish Green co-convener Patrick Harvie welcomed the bill, saying it should proceed “even if the UK government offers a last-minute compromise”.

    124. Welsh Sion says:

      I said it before and I’ll say it again. The only policy Tories have towards the poor (and always has been) is:

      “Arbeit macht frei”.

    125. Street Andrew says:

      He’s just trying out some material for his fringe stand-up.

      Obviously fancies a Perrier.

      With stuff like this and he might get it.

    126. Highland Wifie says:

      @Ananurhing
      Like normal countries you mean?!
      I have friends in Denmark and love the country. Hoping to visit again later in the year and this time get over the bridge to Sweden at least. Not sure if we’ll make it as far as Norway but here’s hoping.
      Of course if there’s an indyref won’t be able to go at all. Lol

    127. Thepnr says:

      Here’s some of the things a man who campaigned against poverty in the 19th Century around the time of the Poor Act reforms that created workhouses had to say.

      The reform of the Poor Act creating the workhouses was in 1834, Dickens wrote Oliver Twist in response as a serial between 1837 and 1839. I like these three quotes so thought I’d share them.

      “I only ask to be free. The butterflies are free. Mankind will surely not deny to Harold Skimpole what it concedes to the butterflies!”

      Charles Dickens, Bleak House

      “Merry Christmas! … What’s Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, and not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in ’em through a round dozen of months presented against you? If I would work my will … every idiot who goes about with “Merry Christmas,” on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart.”

      Charles Dickens, A Christmas Carol

      “In a word, I was too cowardly to do what I knew to be right, as I had been too cowardly to avoid doing what I knew to be wrong.”

      Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

      That last quote sounds suspiciously like Mundell or Davidson.

      By the way did you know that Dickens and his Scottish wife Catherine was from Edinburgh had 10 children?

      The internet is amazing eh 🙂 By informing, that’s how we win.

    128. Dan Huil says:

      Britnat Boris angers the Irish, again. British nationalists, their arrogance and ignorance, just can’t help making enemies with the rest of the world.

    129. Brian McHugh says:

      We will not go quietly into the night…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1QnypwCPZo

      The gloves are off 🙂

    130. Thepnr says:

      @Highland Wifie

      A few years ago me and my wife did a trip of just a few days between Norway and Denmark. Ryanair to Oslo from Edinburgh which was dirt cheap, Train through to Copenhagen with an overnight stop for us in Gothenburg which was not quite dirt cheap but cheaper than UK trains.

      Then the overnight ferry with a cabin from Copenhagen back to Oslo. Just a four day trip but even though it was Scandinavia the cost was surprisingly low and well worth it.

    131. Dan Huil says:

      Get yer loins ready tae be girdit.

    132. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dan Huil
      It’s all progressing very nicely.

    133. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 6.38
      I can understand that “if” as presiding officer he was protecting Holyrood…. But just WHO does he take his legal advice from?
      I would have said he would have to seek legal council from someone….. and I would have presumed that to be the Lord Advocate….. Clearly not.
      So who is this person or persons who know better?
      Surely it’s not his OWN interpretation, because if so,then no matter his motive, that looks like either arrogance or an agenda and disrespectful to the office he holds.

    134. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Yes, I don’t know, and posed the question in The National. But he must have some advice, can’t be the Lord Advocate because he’s the ScotGov man, can’t be Keen because he’s UKGov’s man, so who indeed! Worth finding out maybe.

      Meanwhile Peter A Bell’s message is “Keep calm”, in his posting on the article:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16052741.Major_clash_between_Holyrood_presiding_officer_and_Scotland_s_top_lawyer_over_Brexit_Bill/

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, maybe through the Chamber Office:

      Chamber Office

      The Chamber Office provides:

      direct support to the Presiding Officer and Deputy Presiding Officers for all meetings of the Parliament, including briefings and procedural advice in the Chamber.
      links with Business Managers and supports the debate management and running of votes in meetings of parliament.

      The Chamber Office is responsible for:

      processing all written and oral parliamentary questions, including First Minister’s Question Time, and for producing the Written Answers Report
      advising members on the admissibility of motions and amendments for debate.

      Different teams within the office act as clerks to:

      the Parliamentary Bureau
      the Subordinate Legislation Committee

      providing advice on policy, procedural and administrative matters. The Non-Government Bills Unit provide support to members and Committees in connection with proposals for Members Bills and Committee Bills.

      The Legislation Team supports the drafting of amendments to Bills and the management of the Bills process and liaises with the Scottish Government and others to ensure Bills as introduced to the parliament comply with the requirement of Standing Orders.

      http://www.parliament.scot/abouttheparliament/25888.aspx

    136. Meg merrilees says:

      Galamcennalath

      whit aboot the Brexit barn-dance or the Treesa May Strathspey

      I love it! The BC news is sounding affy worried. They kee[p going on about Scotland and Nicola Sturgeon trying to veto Brexit and never a word aout the duplicate situation in Wales with Carwyn Jones or any possible equivalent movement in N.Ireland.
      Talking of which:

      BBC reporting, 10 minutes ago, on it’s website that a ‘trusted EU source’ has informed RTE that The EU are considering keeping N.Ireland in the Custom’s Union to prevent a hard border – Ireland would then be one regulatory area.

      Arlene No-surrenderrr Fosterrr has said that if that is what happens they will remove their support from the Conservative government!!!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43219559

      Woo -hoo it’s all going up the creek!

    137. Meg merrilees says:

      Liz g

      Wonder if he gets his legal advice from Tomkins??

      Maybe WM has intervened privately???

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, maybe the Scottish Government Legal Directorate whose head is = James Wolffe. Doesn’t sound right though in the case of the PO! I give up, far too many open tabs it’s making my head hurt.

    139. Thepnr says:

      I know that it’s extremely boring waiting for some serious political news that affects Scotland but I’d have to agree with the Rev.

      There has been a dearth of news worth printing recently as anything that has been printed is all without substance and the same old shite we’ve heard 1000 times from the same old faces.

      Maybe though this is just the quiet before the storm. Something has to break and I suspect it will be very soon. After Fridays speech by May things will get interesting, considering what Barnier had to say today I very much doubt that any kind of transition deal for the UK with the EU can be agreed next month.

      It looks like it’s all going tit’s up already! Happy as Larry 🙂

    140. Highland Wifie says:

      @Thepnr
      Sounds like that was a great way to go. We are planning the campervan on the ferry from Hull but I’m interested to know about the ferry from Copenhagen to Oslo. Thanks.

    141. call me dave says:

      The Presiding Officer is supported in his duties by two Deputy Presiding Officers. Linda Fabiani MSP and Christine Grahame MSP were elected to these roles on Thursday 12 May 2016.

      The Deputy Presiding Officers have the same range of responsibilities when acting in place of the Presiding Officer, but both retain their party allegiance and will vote in the Chamber unless chairing proceedings. This means that they also support the Presiding Officer in his representation of the Scottish Parliament at home and abroad.
      ——————————————————-

      Would the two deputies have been involved in any consultation with the PO or would their ‘party allegiance’ forbade it?

      Anyhoo! All simmering away very nicely. Quite a chess game now.

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I think this continuity bill could be the storm, and brewing up very nicely too.

    143. Robert Peffers says:

      @Capella says: 27 February, 2018 at 5:41 pm:

      “Ken Macintosh’s statement saying the Scottish Parliament is not competent to pass the legislation because the Westminster Bill has not yet been passed. The Lord Advocate disagrees.
      https://tinyurl.com/ydfslxse
      The Scottish Ministers are ignoring him. Good for them.”

      I’m going to make a wild guess here, Capella.

      My guess is that the FM, who is after all a well trained lawyer, (and of course her team of advisors), were expecting the Presiding Officer to attempt to intervene in an effort to support the Westminster Establishment unionists of which his party is an integral part.

      They anticipated that he would – and he did.

      Thus the battle lines have been drawn. The result will likely be that Westminster will want the legal decision taken to the illegally set-up by Westminster UK Supreme Court that most certainly set up 100% against Article of Union Number 19.

      I refer you to this article for some explanation:-

      https://www.thebottleimp.org.uk/2013/11/scott-and-scots-law/?print=print

      Legally each and every Article of Union is an agreed contract, in its own right, between the only two equally sovereign kingdoms that formed the United Kingdom.

      However, the High Court of Scotland has precedent in that they have long ago ruled that the idea of the monarchy, or the monarchy’s delegates, (Under English law that ended with the last sitting of the now long defunct Parliament of the Kingdom of England. Which parliaments sat sat between 1688, (The Glorious Revolution), and the dissolution of the last, (elected as such), Parliament of the Kingdom of England on the last day of April 1707.

      What began on 1 May 1707 was NOT the parliament of the Kingdom of England it was the very first sitting of the Parliament of The United Kingdom. The Scottish High Court ruled that the sovereignty of the Monarchy, “has no place in the law of Scotland”.

      I can see there is about to be a constitutional car crash as without doubt Westminster will refer the decision to the Supreme Court that they set up that goes 100% against Article of Union Number 19. Which states that Scottish and English law are incompatible and must remain in perpetuity as independent legal systems.

      Now I’m not a betting person but, if I were, I’d wager that Scotland will get the backing of not only the Welsh and the Irish but also that of the European international courts of which there are two main ones, “The European Court of Justice”, and, “The European Court of Human Rights”.

      Probably, and I’m no expert, the one to be involved would be the European Court of Human Rights. Anyway, the scene is now set for the Westminster Tories to attempt to browbeat the Scottish Government and the independent Scottish Legal system, but bear this in mind.

      When there was a legal battle going on in which the United States, The United Kingdom and the Scottish legal system were all claiming jurisdiction over the Lockerby Bomber Trial the international decision was that as the crime was over Scottish territory, (i.e. under Scottish legal jurisdiction) the trial had to be conducted under Scots law.

      Which it was but had to have a bit of foreign land declared temporarily as Scottish Territory – but that was just to shut up the Yanks and UK unionists to get it over and done with. It was, however, a trial under independent Scots law.

      Let Battle commence!

    144. jfngw says:

      @Liz G

      This may make heedtracker furious but possibly the PO is taking his constitutional legal advice from a certain Slovenian girlfriend, who apparently is a great kisser but doesn’t believe in monogamy.

    145. yesindyref2 says:

      I also think the UK is like a huge kilogram heap of jeely balanced on a shaky teaspoon.

      Cup of tea anyone? Pass the spoon please.

    146. ronnie anderson says:

      @ liz g Brodies LLB are the corporate lawyers for Holyrood parliament .

    147. Meg merrilees says:

      Re Ken Mc Intosh disagreeing with the Lord Advocate and SG on our own continuity bill –

      Sounds to me that the Lord Advocate is now about to invoke the clause in the Treaty of Union which states that Scottish Law cannot be superseded in all time – can’t remember the exact wording but basically WM can’t change it, only we can. ( is it section 19) some one will inform me, please.

      I think it is fantastic that they are going ahead with the Bill, the gloves are definitely off now and to before time.

      So, Scotland isn’t happy, Wales isn’t happy, N.Ireland isn’t happy – either way, if they stay in the Customs’ Union the DUP will renege on their deal with WM, if they leave the Custom’s Union it breaks the international treaty of the Good Friday Agreement and Ireland and Europe, America and the UN won’t be happy .

      Anybody know what is happening in Gibraltar?

      If we don’t do a complete cliff-fall clean break, Rees-Mogg, Fox, Gove and Johnson and 60 others aren’t happy and if she does gp for that, everyone else at WM isn’t happy.

      A complete fluster cluck .

      Wow, what will history make of this!

    148. Meg merrilees says:

      Ah, I read that Robert P@9.14 has already published the very bit of the Articles of the Treaty of Union that i was referring to – there’s team work for you. Even as I’m typing it, he’s posting it.

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees
      The velvet glove, the iron fist.

    150. Faltdubh says:

      Its certainly getting very interesting. The European Commission release their legal document (all the stuff they agreed to disagree on in December) and it’ll most likely have NI being aligned to the EU/in the customs union ; and with Liam Fox, May etc all saying we’re leaving then well what happens next?

      We’ve seen today in Holyrood and in Cardiff today, that things are certainly going to get very, very interesting.

      I’d agree there has been a bit of a lull in news, but as Msr Barnier has said ”the clock is ticking” and I think the next few weeks and months, we’ll see a lot happening.

      I honestly do not have a scoobie what will happen! I’m just a wee fud with access to the internet and someone with an interest in politics ; but I doubt many of the leaders either do!

    151. Glamaig says:

      The Gibraltar question may come home to roost at some point –

      http://gibraltarpanorama.gi/15209/315940/a/no-sovereignty-for-now-says-spanish-foreign-minister

      No doubt yet another issue the UK Gov has no clue how to resolve.

    152. Clootie says:

      What!…….One of the most powerful devolved governments in the World cannot do this.

      Gordon Brown will be stunned.

    153. heedtracker says:

      jfngw says:
      27 February, 2018 at 9:15 pm
      @Liz G

      This may make heedtracker furious but possibly the PO is taking his constitutional legal advice from a certain Slovenian girlfriend, who apparently is a great kisser but doesn’t believe in monogamy.

      Slovene for monogamy is vote tory, for ever, safe, secure, strong, punch above our weight(ghastly tory slogan that) but its not just me though, getting a bit techy with Prof Smirky and the tories, red and blue. Interpreting the Law should be straight forward or its not good law.

      Although if it is up to my Slovene girlfriend and her tory lovers , there would be no Scotland anything at all, let alone Law. She’s only just got going too.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/16052741.Major_clash_between_Holyrood_presiding_officer_and_Scotland_s_top_lawyer_over_Brexit_Bill/

    154. Capella says:

      @ Robert Peffers – I sense that the end game is drawing near. There was to be a meeting in the Scottish Parliament tonight to decide whether this bill is an “emergency” bill. Parliament can decide. If so, then it can be passed quickly. But I haven’t seen any decision on this yet.

      But, as Liz g says, who advised Ken Macintosh that the Scottish Parliament is not competent to make provision for BREXIT? Not the Lord Advocate. So who?
      Neil Findlay doesn’t seem to know what’s going on. He is the Labour Shadow EU spokesperson is he not?

      Looks like the UK ship of state is gliding majestically on to the BREXIT rocks. Let’s hope so.

    155. stewartb says:

      For info, from the Scottish Parliament’s website:

      “Office of the Solicitor to the Scottish Parliament
       
      The Office of the Solicitor to the Scottish Parliament provides a parliamentary legal service, supporting the Parliament across its range of activities and responsibilities. In relation to the Parliament’s legislative activity the legal advisers are involved in aspects of the passage of primary legislation (Bills) and secondary legislation (Statutory Instruments).

      For primary legislation, the legal advisers’ main role is to advise the Presiding Officer in the exercise of his statutory function under the Scotland Act 1998. This is to give a view on whether a Bill, at introduction, is within the Parliament’s legislative competence. The legal advisers also play a role in the development of Members’ and committee bills through the Non-Government Bills Unit, and in the parliamentary passage of private legislation. …..

      The office is led by the Solicitor to the Scottish Parliament who is a member of the Parliament’s Leadership Group.”

    156. heedtracker says:

      I mean is WLab going to pass exact same Brexit protection bill or not?

      Lets ask beeb gimps in Wales, currently focused only on Welsh sport and Welsh snow

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43213509?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/ne
      ws/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story

      Scottish ministers have tabled their own alternative to the EU Withdrawal Bill at Holyrood.

      The Scottish and UK governments are locked in a dispute over sections of the Westminster bill relating to devolved powers.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-43210165?intlink_from_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story

      The Welsh Government is to press ahead with plans for a law to prevent what ministers have dubbed a post-Brexit “power-grab”.

      The assembly will be asked to back as an emergency measure a Continuity Bill that will give it powers in devolved areas currently held at EU level.”

      Its interesting watching completely differing beeb gimp reportage on this whole Wales/Scotland Brexit bill.

      BBC r4 vote tory news gimps went massive their “alternative SNP” style of pissing all over Holyrood.

      BBC unionist propaganda is a game that’s hard to follow sometimes.

    157. Bob Mack says:

      Oh Dear Nicola. Now why on earth would you want to hamper Brexit and seriously pissed off 16 million English voters desperate for Brexit..

      They may get so angry they will demand they ditch the Scottish nation who are always looking for handouts anyway.

      Snigger to self. There is indeed more than one way to skin a cat

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @ronnie anderson says: 27 February, 2018 at 6:03 pm:

      “@ Clootie The voting system has to be changed to 1st past the post enough of this foisted on us honky tonk system , lets see if the Unionists would argue against a Bill to change the voting system in Scotland.”

      Oh! Ronnie, come on man, – think what you are wanting to return to – the system that Westminster used to build the biggest and most dysfunctional Empire the World has ever had – Westminster coloured the globe pink by use of the first past the post system when the Westminster government became the head of the British Empire.

      An Empire, that kept the English Class system that still exists today. It was called an Empire because it had a monarch, (Emporor), as its head. It invented concentration camps. It also oversaw the killing off of most of the aboriginals in Australia, the North American Native Tribes in both the USA and Canada, the Maoris in New Zealand and oversaw the slave trade in Africa. It also transported large parts of the population of Scotland to the colonies for no other reason than to make way for sheep. They used the vagrancy Acts in the Lowlands and Southern Uplands and the Clan system in the Scottish Highlands.

      That and depravation has seen Scotland’s longest lasting and largest export being Scotland’s peoples through the ages.

      No thanks – we do not want to lower ourselves to their vile standards but most of all we do not want to be stuck with that system for another 311 years.

      Read my previous comment about the way Nicola has angled Westminster into a constitutional crisis on top of the BRUKEXIT troubles they are already flailing about aimlessly with.

      Westminster will either have to cave in or attempt to take the matter to the Supreme court. If they attempt the latter then it will be the SG’s chance to call upon the European Court of Human Rights, (also called informally, “The World Court”).

      The other European Court is, far as I know, also the World Court but deals only with Criminal Law and not human rights and constitutional law.

    159. yesindyref2 says:

      @stewartb
      Ah, well tracked down! There appears to be one person at this office according to the Law Society, I won’t name the person in case it embarrasses her (or I got it wrong).

      In any case she’d be able to get advice if she needed it, same as any solicitor does.

    160. galamcennalath says:

      Came across this excellent ‘must read’ article from almost a year ago ….

      “England’s idea of unionism is not shared in the rest of UK”

      …and…

      “A strange form of unionism, you might say, but it makes more sense if you accept that theirs is emphatically not a union envisaged as a partnership of even near equals.

      Theirs is rather a United Kingdom regarded, in essence, as a “Greater England”. Local differences with this Greater English state can be tolerated, but it is toleration within limits.”

      THAT is just soooooo true!

      I have always reckoned there are no unionists in England. Those who optimistically and misguidedly believe there is a Union, come from outside England. In England, as the article says, there are only those who believe in an imperial Greater England.

      https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/england-s-idea-of-unionism-is-not-shared-in-the-rest-of-uk-1.3017660

    161. Thepnr says:

      Statement by Mike Russell SNP MSP for argyle and Bute and also responsible for negotiating Brexit with his counterparts in the UK.

      He had this to say in parliament today regarding the intervention of Ken MacIntosh:

      “This is the first time since the re-convening of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 that a government has introduced a Bill when the Presiding Officer has not been satisfied as to legislative competence. We recognise that and we are mindful of what a serious moment this is.”

      No more swallowing bullshit. Bat it right back and make sure it stings when it hits them on the coupon. We don’t eat cake here.

    162. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I can’t really agree with indyref2 that our esteemed Presiding Officer is merely thinking of the reputation of Parliament. It looks like just another BritNat reality-denial to me.

      BritLab placemen can deliver two diametrically opposite judgements in two different parts of their monolithic UK state and they somehow think that they can pass off that evident self-contradiction as normal? Something is perfectly OK when they run the show but becomes anathema when someone else does? It just reeks of that exceptionalism of theirs that we now know so well.

      With an added dash of “we canna dae” from their NorthBritLab office-holder. And they wonder why less and less people can abide their pathetic uselessness any longer?!

      Hell-bent on irrelevance in practically every move they make.

      (But I’m pretty sure that Nicola & Co. will have had his measure a long time ago and already factored-in his expected response.)

    163. Rock says:

      “With a quarter of Scottish kids living below the breadline”

      Who cares about them?

      Certainly not The Scottish Sun or the Guardian reader’s Slovene (ex-)girlfriend.

      The Scottish haves will never let the Scottish have nots get a better life.

      Those who should have known better voted No.

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

    164. Thepnr says:

      He then follows on:

      Now, Presiding Officer, let me turn to your statement on the Bill’s legislative competence.

      The Presiding Officer has said that, in his view, the provisions of this Bill are out with the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. He is entitled to this view, but we respectfully disagree.

      The Scottish Ministers are satisfied that it is within the powers of this Parliament to prepare for the devolved legislative consequences of the decision by the UK to leave the EU.

      Bam take that!! Right on the button, nice strike Mike lol.

      https://www.snp.org/statement_by_scotlands_brexit_minister_on_the_introduction_of_the_scottish_continuity_bill

    165. Robert Peffers says:

      @Meg merrilees says: 27 February, 2018 at 9:23 pm:

      “Sounds to me that the Lord Advocate is now about to invoke the clause in the Treaty of Union which states that Scottish Law cannot be superseded in all time – can’t remember the exact wording but basically WM can’t change it, only we can. ( is it section 19) some one will inform me, please.”

      Yes, Meg, I think you are correct and I’ll do better than tell you that it is indeed Article of Union Number 19 – I’ll quote it right here on Wings as I have done several times before :-

      “THAT the Court of Session, or Colledge of Justice, do after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations for the better Administration of Justice, as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that hereafter none shall be named by Her Majesty, or her royal Successors, to be ordinary Lords of Session but such who have served in the Colledge of Justice as Advocates, or principal Clerks of Session for the Space of five Years; or as Writers to the Signet for the Space of ten Years, with this Provision, That no Writer to the Signet be capable to be admitted a Lord of the Session, unless he undergo a private and publick Tryal on the Civil Law, before the Faculty of Advocates and be found by them qualified for the said Office, two Years before he be named to be a Lord of the Session; yet to as the Qualifications made, or to be made, for capacitating Persons to be named ordinary Lords of Session, may be altered by the Parliament of Great Britain. And that the Court of Justiciary do also after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain, and without Prejudice of other Rights of Justiciary; and that all Admiralty Jurisdictions be under the Lord High Admirall or Commissioners for the Admiralty of Great Britain for the time being, and that the Court of Admiralty now established in Scotland be continued, and that all Reviews, Reductions, or Suspensions of the Sentences in Maritime Cases, competent to the Jurisdiction of that Court, remain in the same Manner after the Union, as now in Scotland, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall make such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be judged expedient for the whole United Kingdom, so as there be always continued in Scotland a Court of Admiralty, such as in England, for Determination of all Maritime Cases relating to private Rights in Scotland competent to the Jurisdiction of the Admiralty Court, subject nevertheless to such Regulations and Alterations as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that the Heritable Rights of Admiralty and Vice-Admiralties in Scotland be reserved to the respective Proprietors as Rights of Property, subject nevertheless, as to the Manner of exercising such heritable Rights, to such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all other Courts now in being within the Kingdom of Scotland do remain, but subject to Alterations by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all inferior Courts within the said Limits do remain subordinate, as they are now, to the supreme Courts of Justice within the same, in all time coming; and that no Causes in Scotland be cognoscible by the Courts of Chancery, Queens-Bench, Common-Pleas, or any other Court in Westminster-hall; and that the said Courts, or any other of the like Nature, after the Union, shall have no Power to cognosce, review, or alter the Acts or Sentences of the Judicatures within Scotland, or stop the Execution of the same; and that there be a Court of Exchequer in Scotland after the Union, for deciding Questions concerning the Revenues of Customs and Excises there, having the same Power and Authority in such Cases, as the Court of Exchequer has in England; and that the said Court of Exchequer in Scotland have Power of passing Signatures, Gifts, Tutories, and in other Things, as the Court of Exchequer at present in Scotland hath; and that the Court of Exchequer that now is in Scotland do remain, until a new Court of Exchequer be settled by the Parliament of Great Britain in Scotland after the Union; and that after the Union, the Queen’s Majesty, and her royal Successors, may continue a Privy Council in Scotland, for preserving of publick Peace and Order, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall think fit to alter it, or establish any other effectual method for that end.”

      As you so correctly say, no one but the neoliberal USA is on the side of the Westminster Parliament and I’m not even sure that The USAsians really support them. Bear in mind that all those bits of the globe that used to be coloured pink have axes to grind with Westminster as have those other bits that fought against Westminster in two World Wars and many other more minor wars too.

    166. Tinto Chiel says:

      Yon Wee Ginger Dug sinks his fangs into the P.O.’s dowp.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/doing-something-memorable/#comments

      And who could blame him?

    167. Rock says:

      The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

      So called “human rights lawyers” included. They trouser hundreds of thousands while people starve in Scotland.

      Stop deluding yourselves.

      The Scottish justice system will never allow the Scottish parliament to prevail over Westminster, except for show on trivial issues like road signs.

    168. Hamish100 says:

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland. So says Rock who maybe isn’t in Scotland but believes he can deride and abuse its peoples.

      Rock thinks he is pro indy!!! ha – do you think he is stupid. On the night shift again rock? ex journalist who couldn’t get a job with the National?

    169. heedtracker says:

      Rock says:
      27 February, 2018 at 10:25 pm
      The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

      What aboutery Rock, https://twitter.com/joannaccherry

      and

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon

      Scottish justicary is no different from any other.

      http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home

      It is probably a closed Scottish shop but professions do tend to be in teamGB.

      There are various routes in though. I know two QC’s who started out as child social workers. You don’t want to be cheeky about the cops or the Law around them either.

    170. Thepnr says:

      We don’t need the MSM for the truth as it’s obvious to all to see.

      London Bridge is falling down,
      Falling down, falling down.
      London Bridge is falling down,
      My fair lady.

      Hello Brexit! Goodbye UK!

    171. heedtracker says:

      FM Sturgeon Twitter timeline’s funny sometimes.

      https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/968588882219585539

      Mr Snowman, bring me a dream.

      Imagine waking up in a Scotland where the yoons and the beeb gimps are powerless:D

    172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Tinto Chiel : 22:21,

      My fav quote out of that gem of his on the spurious reason that our now-infamous PO gave for declaring the Continuity Bill premature:

      That Humza Yousaf should be out there personally with a snaw shovel. Actually no, strike that. He shouldn’t be making any preparatory arrangements at all. He should be sitting at home and doing absolutely nothing at all, because according to the Ken Wossisname Doctrine, the snaw hasn’t happened yet.

      =big laugh= Oh, he’s well on the ball, as usual.

    173. Thepnr says:

      @Tinto Chiel

      Great link to the WGD article, he’s more than just on the ball and gets it spot on every time. Laughed out loud reading it.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2018/02/27/doing-something-memorable/#comments

    174. Bill not Ben says:

      I wish some of our scientists in scotland could come up with a pill for complete and utter apathy, i think a lot of us who visit here are suffering from terminal monotonosia, a word i made up btw, so don’t go looking for it.
      Why do people put long winded posts on here, i never read them, so i don’t suppose most other people do either, i have a house full of books that i am making my way through one by one, and i can tell you they are one hellava lot more interesting than the same old stuff we get on here.
      I know one person will want to reply to this when he reads it snarling at his chops and licking his gums in anticipation of showing us all how brilliant he is.
      But let me tell him and others, don’t waste my time replying, cause i don’t give a shit and i never read any of your constant bloody moaning and griping, some people need to get out the house more, stay off their computers and give their arses a big of an airing now and again.
      Having said all that, anyone for tennis lol

    175. Bob Mack says:

      Err Rock, .It’s actually not about the Scottish lawyers or judges. They are just a means to an end in this show.

      You need to catch up.

    176. Bob Mack says:

      Bill and Ben.

      Yeh sure, cut off the only means of communication and support we have. Genius. You’ll go far.

    177. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.14 pm
      “”The Scottish High Court ruled that the sovereignty of the Monarchy, “has no place in the law of Scotland”.””

      Do you have the details of that case? Interested to read it in detail.

    178. Rock says:

      heedtracker,

      “I know two QC’s who started out as child social workers.”

      How many millions did they trouser in the process?

      The bastards’ bottom line is their pay not the wellbeing of the children they claim to protect.

    179. Rock says:

      Bob Mack,

      “Err Rock, .It’s actually not about the Scottish lawyers or judges. They are just a means to an end in this show.

      You need to catch up.”

      What is your point?

      My point is that the vast majority of Scottish lawyers and judges are the lowest of the low and they are slaves of Westminster.

      They don’t give a damn about the wellbeing of the “plebs” of Scotland and never have.

      Nicola is an establishment lawyer, no Ghandi or Mandela.

      There is a 1% chance that she will defy Saint Theresa and hold an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      Why would she and the rest of the SNP leadership want to go into exile in Belgium when they are doing fine here and at Westminster?

    180. Hamish100 says:

      rock are you one of the socialist republicans types that luv good suits, cava, caviar and strip clubs?
      Not necessarily in that order.

      POWER TO THE PEOPLE.

    181. Thepnr says:

      Bill not Ben meet Rock

      May you both live happily ever after.

      Amen.

    182. Chick McGregor says:

      As far as Britnat imperialism goes, nothing is beyond our Ken.

      My views on the UK Supreme Court and indeed its very existence, I have made very clear in the past. The origins of that Britnat institution go back to negotiations between UK and Canadian mandarins during the Canadian ‘patriation’ process way back in the 80’s.

      The idea that having a Supreme Court with a remit extended to adjudicate on constitutional matters and therefore the ability to overrule any regional move for secession were born then. With (then) immediate pertinence to Quebec secession and potentially similar on future Scottish independence.

      I saw the transcripts of the meetings where those ideas were mooted.

      However, in the UK there has been, as yet, no Bill of Rights transferring such powers to the UK Supreme Court, plus, there is the little matter that Scotland was an independent state for a thousand years and entered into a Union on a voluntary basis (ostensibly). So in Scotland’s case we are talking about a ‘dissolution’ of the Union and reversion to a former sovereignty status, rather than secession.

      Therefore I think the UK Supreme Court, knowing their very shaky legal ground, will try to avoid adjudication on the matter, but will, of course, support the UK position if forced into a corner.

    183. Al-Stuart says:

      Thank you Stuart Campbell.

      You have been thoroughly decent in featuring this silent crime of toxic Tories killing off the disabled.

      In Scotland Tankie Ruth and Nutty Prof., seem to have completely sidestepped any liability, though they are equally culpable.

      However, anyone reading Calum’s List online will see the extent of blood all over Tory hands and policies by this turgid immoral political party.

      In October 2004, Heather Brooke started to request details of MPs’ expenses at Westminster. It wasn’t until May 2011 that the first of several MPs and Lords got jailed as a result of what began over 6 years earlier as a relatively basic Freedom of Information request none of the newspapers were interested in.

      So it is likely to be a year or two yet before we see Iain Duncan Smith + Esther McVey, and maybe even Ruth Davidson hauled off for questioning by the police.

      Tick tock. There is a an inexorable growth in the number of tragedies at the hands of these Conservative politicians as each year of disability destitution rolls on by.

      If the likes of David Chaytor MP can get an 18 month custodial sentence for a first offence of dodgy expenses, what pray tell would Iain Duncan Smith, or Esther McVey or our homegrown “brave” Adam Tomkins get for allegedly aiding and abetting corporate manslaughter?

      That is a serious enquiry, not a rhetorical point: what do you think the Tory disability deniers with their fingerprints all over the deaths of those who are weak, ill and/or disabled will or should get when the Sheriff brings in the verdict?


      http://www.calumslist.org

    184. Robert Peffers says:

      Now before I shuffle of to bed can I cite an interesting article I’m only just starting to attempt to get to grips with but which doesn’t seem to be too steeped in legalese for most lay persons to understand. However I have had several almost sleepless nights and cannot now keep My eyes from closing.

      I’ll just post the link and leave it to Wingers to read for I’m not able to get to grips with it tonight. So I’ve downloaded it and will continue to study it tomorrow:-

      http://www.scottishconstitution.scot/attachments/article/74/SOVEREIGNTY_C.pdf

    185. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Legerwood at 11:02 pm

      You quoted and asked,

      “Robert Peffers @ 9.14 pm
      “”The Scottish High Court ruled that the sovereignty of the Monarchy, “has no place in the law of Scotland”.””

      Do you have the details of that case? Interested to read it in detail.”

      Here’s a quote from the relevant case:

      “The petitioners submitted that, article 1 of the Treaty of Union being a fundamental condition of the union between Scotland and England, it was ultra vires of the Parliament of the United Kingdom to amend that article or to pass legislation in contradiction of its provisions.

      That Parliament did not have unlimited sovereignty, since it was created by the Treaty of Union, which contained articles limiting its powers in certain respects. Further, as the Parliament of Scotland was not a sovereign body, since its laws could fall in desuetude, it could not convey by the Treaty of Union to the Parliament of the United Kingdom a sovereignty which it never possessed.

      Therefore, if the Royal Titles Act, 1953, purported to authorise Her Majesty to adopt the title “Elizabeth the Second,” that statute was ultra vires of Parliament, since by article 1 of the Treaty of Union the United Kingdom came into being on 1st May 1707, and no ruling sovereign of that kingdom had borne the name Elizabeth until the accession of Her Majesty. Every citizen of Scotland had an interest to ensure that the fundamental conditions of the Treaty of Union were observed, and, as an application to the Court was the only method whereby this could be achieved, the petition was competent. The Court had power to prevent the publication of a proclamation which was illegal as in violation of the Treaty of Union.”

      You can read the whole thing at this link:-
      http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS/1953/1953_SC_396.html

    186. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Please, ignore the inanimate stumbling block, just an inane self-indulgent distraction from the really interesting stuff.

      Which is that the big ball is rolling now, and picking up speed. Just went over its first (fairly insignificant) casualty, an inadequate out-of-depth PO, flattened as it went on its way.

    187. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland tonight had Joan McAlpine and a Scottish Goon Tory MP
      Joan spelled it all out as much as she could in the usual that’s all we’ve got time for, this is much more than just a power grab for the incoming powers she says, this could lead to a sell off of our NHS or anything else we’ve got in exchange for whatever the Goons want

      Then I flipped to BBC2 where Bernard Jenkin was wriggling on weasly words over the Irish border then blurted out that the word alignment didn’t mean a damn thing because they didn’t say regulatory alignment

      Now we hear about Boris Johnsons leaked letter to Theresa May basically saying sod the Irish border who gives a shit

      This set of Tories along with Jeremy Corbyns help are going for the full set, they want total UK Britain back under their complete and direct control that’s why they’re delaying everything till the last minute

      The Irish know it and that’s why they’re not shifting an inch *You can’t trust the British government* said the guy from Fina Gael as Jenkin sat there and smirked

      They think they’re only bothered about Norn Ireland and not Scotland

      They’re very badly wrong

    188. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Dr Jim @ 23:28:

      Bernard Jenkin was wriggling on weasly words over the Irish border then blurted out that the word alignment didn’t mean a damn thing because they didn’t say regulatory alignment

      Yes, been there, seen that with the Scotland Act 2016. Rude Gal was totally wrong in her late craven pleasing of the English Tory crowd: it’s Perfidious Albion that will sneak away with anything that isn’t (legally) securely bolted down.

    189. Dr Jim says:

      I have someone leaving for Ireland in the morning, I’ll know more by Sunday , Monday

    190. Liz g says:

      So very sorry..
      I had jumped into a conversation and left.
      I really was called away.
      I’m now playing catch up..
      Feck…trust me…just when something import happens!!!

    191. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 27 February, 2018 at 11:02 pm:

      “Do you have the details of that case? Interested to read it in detail.”

      I have details somewhere, Legerwood, but I’m struggling to stay awake. I’ve had bother sleeping for a while. My youngest son was found dead in his flat and because there is, as yet, no proven cause of death nor of there being any suspicious circumstances we are left in Limbo.

      Then my wee dog, my constant companion for over 11 years 24/7/365 died suddenly. We were only apart twice in those 11 years. Once from morning to late evening when I had two stents inserted for angina problems and again for most of one day when she was neutered so as to avoid having pups.

      Otherwise we were never apart as I use a wee campervan for everyday transport so we went everywhere together. Both losses are hard to take. I was expecting my sons to bury me and, in my disabled and ill state, I expected my sons to bury me not me attending to their funerals.

      Anyway, as to your question I just cannot remember the Scottish Law Lord’s name but it is quite obvious that as, from 1320, Scots monarchs are not sovereign, hence such titles as, “Mary Queen of Scots”, the Royal person is the protector of the people’s sovereignty but, unlike under English Law, the monarch neither owns Scotland nor does the Monarch have subjects.

      Which is why Scots law has no English style law of trespass. You cannot trespass if you have sovereignty and that is why Scots have, “Rights to Roam”, in Scotland only restricted by personal rights to privacy. Not even Prince Charles could get legal permission to prevent people having right of way on marked pathways across the Balmoral Estate.

      Anyhow, the Scottish Law Lord ruled that English style sovereignty had no place under Scots law.

      I’m off to bed now as I cannot keep my eyes open but I posted a link a wee while ago to an article that may well quote the case. If you look upthread a wee bit.

    192. Dr Jim says:

      We should all remember the words *Not Normally* in the Smith Commission documents that the SNP Scot guv tried to have removed which Mundell and all the Tories and Lib Dem Alistair Carmichael swore blind weren’t a problem

      Remember Labours part in that? *Just get on with it* they insisted

      And what happened, not normally became *aye but this time normal*

    193. Flower of Scotland says:

      Robert Peffers.

      Thanks for that PDF on Sovereignty. I’ve put it into my iBooks for future reference. It will come in very handy.

    194. crazycat says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland at 10.12

      BritLab placemen can deliver two diametrically opposite judgements in two different parts of their monolithic UK state

      I hope you’re not referring to the Presiding Officer of the Welsh Assembly as a “BritLab placeman”!

      Y Llywydd is
      a) a woman (Elin Jones, AM for Ceredigion since 1999)
      and
      b) a member of Plaid Cymru.

      🙂

    195. Davie Oga says:

      The presiding officer can be removed by a simple parliamentary resolution. How is this man, who couldn’t even win his own seat, being permitted to undermine our parliament at the this crucial time. Let’s see some Scottish democracy at work. Get rid of this clown.

    196. yesindyref2 says:

      @Davie Oga
      The presiding officer can be removed by a simple parliamentary resolution.

      I’m sure if that was appropriate in any way at all the Scottish Government would put forward a vote of no confidence and if they agreed, the Greens who support the Bill, would support that vote.

      If it doesn’t happen, then they’re happy with the PO. In any case it isn’t neccessary as the PO himself says he has no veto and the Bill can proceed if the ScotGov wants it to, or amend it to be within legislative competence if neccessary.

    197. heedtracker says:

      Crikey! Our imperial masters are certainly sticking it to those pesky Euros.

      https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/27/boris-johnson-likens-post-brexit-irish-border-checks-to-congestion-charge

      Theresa May ‘will refuse Brexit deal that threatens UK integrity’
      No 10 draws line in sand after Boris Johnson hints at return of hard border in Ireland”

      As per, nothing Scotland in stinky olde The Graun’s stuff. Oh well, its got nothing to do with us anyway really, leave it all to the English.

    198. orri says:

      Westminster may very well legislate for the whole of the UK on devolved issues in unusual circumstances, as in not normal ones.

      That doesn’t mean to say that they can enact that legislation without the consent of Holyrood or the other devolved administrations.

      Remember that refusal to grant Royal Assent has been used in the past in England prior to the Act of Union. It’s a Royal Prerogative.

      Also that as FM where devolved matters are involved Sturgeon can advise the Queen on the use of Royal Prerogative.

      Also that enacting law in Scotland involves the use of the Great Seal of Scotland. http://www.parliament.scot/help/66524.aspx

      The documents are then delivered to Registers of Scotland, followed by the National Records of Scotland, in Edinburgh, where the Great Seal of Scotland is applied.

      Guess who’s the Keeper of the Seal and thus in a position to prevent that happening?

    199. Meg merrilees says:

      Just listened to the late news and in summing up they said that Theresa May is expected to give a speech tomorrow(?) when she will accuse the EU of trying to break up the UK.

      Funny that – I thought it was Nicola trying to do that… confused?

      They don’t know whether they’re Arthur or Martha…

    200. ben madigan says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland who said “it’s Perfidious Albion that will sneak away with anything that isn’t (legally) securely bolted down”.

      I expect that by now (after 800 years) that Ireland and “her gallant allies in Europe” have got Perfidious Albion’s measure.
      I really hope they have. The way things are shaping up – it looks like they do!Fingers firmly crossed!

      Scotland could have the same “gallant allies in Europe” you know!!
      We had them in the past and they haven’t gone away!

    201. louis.b.argyll says:

      Scottish lawyers are maybe rightly protectionist.

      Westminster is rotten to the core.

    202. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – the legal position may be the case referred to as “MacCormick v Lord Advocate” where the following observation occurs:

      The principle of the unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle which has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law. It derives its origin from Coke and Blackstone, and was widely popularised during the nineteenth century by Bagehot and Dicey, the latter having stated the doctrine in its classic form in his Law of the Constitution. Considering that the Union legislation extinguished the Parliaments of Scotland and England and replaced them by a new Parliament, I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to the Parliament of England. That is not what was done. Further, the Treaty and the associated legislation, by which the Parliament of Great Britain was brought into being as the successor of the separate Parliaments of Scotland and England, contain some clauses which expressly reserve to the Parliament of Great Britain powers of subsequent modification, and other clauses which either contain no such power or emphatically exclude subsequent alteration by declarations that the provision shall be fundamental and unalterable in all time coming, or declarations of a like effect. I have never been able to understand how it is possible to reconcile with elementary canons of construction the adoption by the English constitutional theorists of the same attitude to these markedly different types of provisions.

      I haven’t been able to find the original but wikiquotes has the text
      https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/MacCormick_v_Lord_Advocate

      Strangely, Adam Tomkins wrote a paper on this but his text is not available, at least in the search results I got.

    203. geeo says:

      Bill not Ben.

      If you do not read “a certain persons” posts, how on earth do you know what is in them is not to your liking ?

      Not the sharpest wee brit-twat in the drawer..are you ?

    204. Capella says:

      Just out of interest, a BBC briefing on the Scottish Parliament pre 1707. Surprisingly objective, it seems to have been written in 1997 before the BBC had refined the Unionist message.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/devolution/scotland/briefing/1707.shtml#top

    205. geeo says:

      Ot..but hey its late..

      Saw this on RT site..its about sex abuse in Rotherham not having enough available police numbers to properly investigate child sex abuse cases !!

      £10mn Rotherham sex abuse gang probe delayed due to lack of police numbers https://www.rt.com/uk/419967-rotherham-sex-child-abuse-stalled/

      Strangely enough, no mention of this anywhere on the BBC site !!

      How odd, huh ?

    206. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      crazycat @ 00:08:

      I hope you’re not referring to the Presiding Officer of the Welsh Assembly as a “BritLab placeman”!

      Oh dear. I fear I was. I had evidently confused the (Labour) Administration with the Assembly. Thanks for that. I stand well and truly corrected! Due apologies thus to the Llywydd.

      Which leaves me wondering if these two polar opposite conclusions are merely due to legal difference, political affiliation, or instead to personal character – possibly a woman with a backbone and a man without?

    207. Cactus says:

      Hey Meg at 12:32am, yeah if the prime minister of England does indeed say that tomorrow about the European Union, it will be a very open public admission that the current United Kingdom is unworkable, indefinitely.

      “You can surf around forever, but you can’t turn back the tide, Tories.”

      That’s the 3rd wave just moved in.

      South side callin’.

      Snow day!

    208. Cactus says:

      Aussi meant to share this signage with y’all:

      http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5676299

      They’ve been up furra while all along the side of Dumbreck and Haggs Road in Glasgow.

      Use the force and use the loop.

      Love the emblem hehe 😉

      Monster77.

    209. Kangaroo says:

      Having positioned the pawns, the big pieces start their moves.

      https://peterabell.blog/2018/02/27/queen-to/

      More chocolate please. Lovin it.

    210. Luigi says:

      And so it begins. Phoney War over. Popcorn at the ready.

      There is good news and bad news, my friends:

      The bad news is that we are up against the fullmight of the British media and WM – two very powerful institutions. It’s a tough call.

      The good news is that they are both dominated by absolute dimwits. Panicking dimwits and all.

      The Scottish people will decide if and when we are ready to jump ship.

      Our chances are 50:50 at present IMO. Certainly all to play for. 🙂

    211. Macart says:

      Heh. Working out nicely.

      Personally, I’m going with the Lord Advocate’s advice. How and ever, if the PO wants to toddle down this particular path… that’d be his choice. ?

      Seems though, that Labour in Wales and Labour in Scotland (both the same Labour by the by) have something of a communication problem. It also seems that only one of these groups gives a damn about economic impact on a population and an already severely strained handout.

      Who knew?

      Oh, and… tick tock.

    212. Macart says:

      Also? Probably a good idea to read what someone actually said (in context) and not what some journo thinks they said/wishes they said/made up what they said (out of context).

      https://www.snp.org/statement_by_scotlands_brexit_minister_on_the_introduction_of_the_scottish_continuity_bill

    213. sassenach says:

      Bii not Ben says, at 10-51pm

      ” i have a house full of books that i am making my way through one by one, ”

      …and I’ll bet he’s managed to colour most of them in!

    214. Macart says:

      This is one of the less offensive ones out there today.

      https://archive.is/t4u5B

      You’d require eye and mind bleach for others.

      The general theme is that ‘Sturgeon threatens Brexit crisis’. Few take the ground that the crisis was really introduced by UK government. That crisis for Scotland’s population IS that a Brexit they didn’t vote for, in a vote they didn’t ask for, is being visited upon them.

      UK government and media… bit on the conceited side.

    215. Tinto Chiel says:

      Re orri and The Great Seal of Scotland:

      I seem to recall that as Edward I handed the said object to one of his minions after one of his psychopathic invasions, he said, “A man does well to rid himself of a turd.”

      Historians are divided as to whether he was referring just to the seal or Scotland as a whole.

      Some things never change, I think. Hope the FM’s got it safely cached.

    216. Bob Mack says:

      There is a basic principle that was in situ when the Union was set up. That was that the two Kingdoms were equal partners in the venture.

      As we know that has shifted partly due to the influence of predominantly British wide parties, having undue influence on the members here in Scotland and I suppose that just grew and grew. Scottish representatives just accepted they were subordinate to the bigger National Party interests.

      The basic foundations remain. We must be allowed to have the will of the people of this country expressed via our elected representatives The SNP has put a fly in that ointment as they are no longer prepared to accept a walk on role for Scotland, but want full recognition for our country.

      Major headache for England is on its way. Ultimately this will end up in the European Courts. It is more about timing that event to coincide with Brexit.

    217. ronnie anderson says:

      Take care out there folks its a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFzjnZVwnu4
      Wan that Cactus forgot about .

    218. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 11.47 last night…
      Aw Robert yer wee (butterfly spaniel)… I am so sorry….

      One of my earliest memories of Wing’s is you telling us of you being out and about, in the lead up to Indy Ref 1,doing what we all need to be doing,talking to people directly and you always included a mention of her!

      While some would say “it’s only a dug”….. We know better….She was so much more than that…..
      I can do nothing but let you know I am thinking of you….
      Love Liz g..X..

    219. ronnie anderson says:

      @Macart ur Welsh labour party registered under a accounting unit or are they just usual variety of the british labour party Kezia needs to update & clarify this Autonomy thingy .

    220. Iain mhor says:

      @Capella 1:39am

      Maybe not the paper you are looking for, but Tomkins submitted copious analysis or ‘evidence’ to the European Scrutiny Committee on the EU Bill and Parliamentary sovereignty which covered these arguments.

      http://bit.ly/2HQYZ8I

    221. Fred says:

      This simpering ninny of Presiding Officer is an “in on the list!” born loser who actually won the Slab leadership contest once upon a time but lost on a technicality. No doubt his disgruntled wee self feels he will have stamped his mark as an irritating footnote in the history of the Scottish Parliament & will have certainly ensured a well-earned place in the Great Hall of the People along with the other un-elected Slab duds!

      “The game’s afoot!” & does the Great Seal eat kippers?

    222. Macart says:

      @ronnie anderson

      TBF Ron, I don’t think they suffer from the same identity problems as Labour in Scotland.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Labour

      “Welsh Labour is formally part of the Labour Party. It is neither separately registered with the Electoral Commission under the terms of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act, In 2016 the Labour Party Conference voted for the office of leader of the Welsh Labour to exist. As such Carwyn Jones is now leader of the Welsh Labour.”

      I suspect both offices have simply misplaced the others phone number. 😉

    223. Legerwood says:

      Capella @ 1.39 am

      Thank you. I know about the MacCormick vs The Lord Advocate case but Lord Cooper statement is an Obiter dicta not a legal judgement. Obiter dicta are like an aside to the main case being argued. They may be quoted in later cases if relevant but do not have the same force or standing as a full legal judgement. The Obiter dictum of Lord Cooper was not essential to the decision in that particular case therefore it does not have binding authority.

    224. galamcennalath says:

      Kangaroo says:

      Having positioned the pawns, the big pieces start their moves.

      “And the British media’s spin on this? Nicola Sturgeon ‘rejects’ an ‘offer’ from the UK Government. The FM is perfectly aware that this kind of distortion of the facts cannot be prevented. All she can do is wait long enough for the media’s dishonesty to be apparent to as many people as possible.”

      Peter Bell’s point is spot on. There isn’t much that can be done to stop the BritNat media this side of Indy. However, ensuring more and more people become aware of the “dishonesty” neutralises their efforts.

      Also, it makes perfect sense that the SG’s moves must always be presented as a reasonable response to the latest WM excess.

      And TMay et al seem to be gearing up to some wild excesses!

    225. Meg merrilees says:

      Capella 1.58am

      This is a must read article!!!!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/politics97/devolution/scotland/briefing/1707.shtml#top

      Capella says:
      28 February, 2018 at 1:58 am
      Just out of interest, a BBC briefing on the Scottish Parliament pre 1707. Surprisingly objective, it seems to have been written in 1997 before the BBC had refined the Unionist message.

      This bit of ancient BBC fact is a gem – please can someone archive it ASAP- I can’t imagine it will stay on the BBC website for much longer. They’ll take it off and plead that they need to update the format or something silly like that.

      It actually says that the Darien scheme was deliberately sabotaged by the english, assayer of glance and increasing political management of Scottish affairs by England and then this gem:

      During the era of Covenanting control, the Scottish Parliament emerged as a mature political and institutional forum and was one of the most powerful assemblies in Europe.

      Spiffing find there, Capella!

    226. starlaw says:

      Radio Shortbread seems to be firmly focused on the Hysteria from Siberia this morning.

    227. Sinky says:

      To use a Chess analogy. As the Queen only has her Knights left to protect her the end game is now in sight.

      Another great piece by Iain MacWhirter in The Herald this morning which concludes:

      Just as many UK Conservatives have never really understood the implications of the Good Friday Agreement, nor have they really appreciated the significance of the 1998 Scotland Act. This famously asserted that any matter not specifically reserved to Westminster automatically becomes a responsibility of the Scottish Parliament. This means that, as the House of Lords EU committee agreed in July, that powers repatriated from Brussels on agriculture, environment and so on become powers of Holyrood “by default”.

      Many in the UK Government suspect that Nicola Sturgeon’s insistence on this constitutional formula is just Nationalist trouble making. That the SNP is trying to drive a wedge between Scotland and England to further its separatist project. But the inconvenient truth is that it has been the Welsh parliament, which is Labour-led, that has been leading the opposition to what the Welsh First Minster, Carwyn Jones, calls the “Westminster power grab”. This is actually a devolution issue, not an independence one.

      We can expect a set of new solutions to this problem to be announced this week by the Conservatives to forestall the Scottish Government’s proposed Continuity Bill ( which anyway has been rejected by the Presiding Officer as beyond Holyrood’s competence). It will probably involve some form of joint committee to give the Scottish and Welsh parliaments equal say on the distribution of powers following Brexit. Not just consultation, but co-determination. Whether this will work as an amendment to the EU Withdrawal Bill remains to be seen.

      But what is becoming clear is that the issues of the Irish border and devolution are essentially the same. Brexit has come to grief not just over the economic cost of abandoning the wealthiest free trade area on the planet. It has revealed that the United Kingdom is no longer a unitary entity, and that it is not possible for Britain simply to leave the EU “as one nation”.”

      A truly balanced broadcaster would give this airtime on peak viewing National TV news but our London dominated broadcasters didn’t even see fit to let people know that the Chief Law Officer and Presiding Officer in Labour run Wales considered their Continuity Bill competent.

      This is just symptomatic of what the SNP is up against when they take on the British Establishment… including the very partisan Ken Macintosh who allowed Ruth Davidson to tell our First Minister to sit down without any public rebuke.

    228. Bill not Ben says:

      There is communication, and there is terminal apathy and looking for something new to read, i could put all sorts of statistics out there, but i am not a sheep, innovative comments and posts allways interest me, because i like a book does not mean i want to read it every day, some people will never get my point, then, do i give a shit, answers on a five pound note and send to the helpers of the socialy inept and stupid who spend all their time regurgitating what others say and write on their computers

    229. Legerwood says:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 11.02 am and Robert Peffers @ 11.47 pm

      Thank you for your replies. You both seem to be referring to the case of MacCormick vs The Lord Advocate which was about the Regnal Number Queen Elizabeth should adopt in Scotland.
      The statement by Lord Cooper on the idea of sovereignty made during that case was an Obiter dictum. As such it is not a legal ruling. It was not essential to the decision made in that case and as such has no binding authority.

      Mr Peffers, I saw your earlier pdf link and will have a look at it later.

    230. Bill not Ben says:

      I forgot to mention i get most of my books out of the charity shops, read them and hand them back again, so the charity wins twice from me, one thing at least the idiot who said i use books to colour in made it short and sweet, so maybe i have taught one monkey to keep it short and sweet … lol

    231. Meg merrilees says:

      There is a corker of an interview on BBC Today programme just after 8am this morning.

      UK spokesman David Jones ( who he ?) and another man from the EU ( very poiite, well-spoken, knows his stuff) and John Humphreys discussing the EU proposal that N.Ireland should remain in the Custom’s Union.

      Two out of three of the people are making sense when they talk, the third is arrogant and has a ‘no-surrender’ attitude. Can you guess which is which?

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09smh20#play

      If you can’t listen in –

      Seriously folks, this is one heck of an arrogant tory government. David Jones waved away the EU proposal by saying it was an opening salvo from the EU , was an attempt to break up the UK and would change;

      the EU guy was wiped the floor with him saying it was not a salvo. There are only 3 solutions – Norway style, a customs union which you look like you’re heading towards or a cliff edge. The G Friday agreement had to be respected and this was the only way to do that, he even mentioned Gibraltar.

      John Humphreys then put the same points to the UK chap who totally refuted any of them, saying that it was high time the EU stopped pretending and accepted that Britain wants a free trade agreement and would never accept a solution that the people of N.Ireland wouldn’t want ( I presume he means the DUP here, since N. Ireland voted Remain) and they would never accept any proposal that left sovereign British territory under the jurisdiction of a foreign government….

      Totally stunning arrogance!!!! I think even John Humphreys was stunned at the intransigence.

      We need to get out fast.

    232. orri says:

      The EU exemption was always meant to be used to strip powers from Scotland if needed. That’s why it’s written as a catch all clause rather than a specific list. Westminster’s problem is that it makes the transfer of powers an automatic function of the UK’s EU membership. That membership ends those exemptions end.

      It might be further argued that if Holyrood has no competence over those powers then neither does Westminster except by agreement with the EU. However that argument fails given the EU doesn’t actually mandate where or how laws are made within it’s member territories just that they comply with EU directives.

      If anything the exemptions are by and of themselves and insult to Scotland as the implication is that Holyrood isn’t capable of writing laws compatible with Scots’ Law and the requirements of EU membership.

    233. Bob Mack says:

      @Bill and Ben,

      Actually you are writing on your computer just now.

      You sound like someone who would write a book on the dangers of opening a fridge door.

      By the way. How were you educated ? Most things I learned from Primary to Uni were things written by someone else.

      You an unrequited author perchance ?

    234. galamcennalath says:

      Serious decisions for TMay, and making decisions isn’t her strong point.

      If she signs up to the EU’s Brexit Treaty then she accepts that either the whole UK stays in the single market or just NI does. Eithet option would work … but not for the hard right! To appease them she has to just reject the Treaty.

      http://archive.is/2qrYr

      Add to that the customs union ‘threat’ to the Trade Bill and problems with restless natives on devolution, and basically TMay is close to shit creek with no paddle territory!

    235. sassenach says:

      Bill not Ben says at 10-02am

      ” forgot to mention i get most of my books out of the charity shops, read them and hand them back again, ”

      Well I’m glad you felt the need to explain that vital point to us, then!! What difference does where you buy your stuff actually make to whatever it was you were trying to say previously?

      If this site bores you, there is an answer you know!! Baaaa…

    236. Meg merrilees says:

      Galamcennalath

      I think T May is actually in a barrel heading for Niagara.

    237. Meg merrilees says:

      The Lord Advocate, Lord Wolfe, QC is to address Holyrood this afternoon to explain why he thinks a Scottish Continuity Bill is required.

      And T may will meet Nicola next week to discuss the Brexit impasse, after the PM returns from the Scottish Tory party conference.

      In other words, after (t)Ruthless has told her how to play it.

    238. Bill not Ben says:

      The idiot says that the site bores me, its not the site that bores me its some of the people that constantly post the same old stuff, you will never learn anything of any note, as its all out there before they post it here, and in some cases probably been out there for many years, but anyway, the long winded and boring posts never get read by me, and lots of others probably do the same, short and sweet, leave your post and go out for the day, some of us realise there is more to life than sitting beside a bloody computer all the time, byeeee now, have a nice day, get out and about or i will maybe have to take your sweeties away for a few weeks lol

    239. Proud Cybernat says:

      Is ‘snow’ a devolved competence?

      Just askin’.

    240. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Meg Merilees

      That BBC page was archived by someone 28 mins ago.

      Here: http://archive.is/MTe8z

    241. galamcennalath says:

      “Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator, is due to unveil a controversial Brexit divorce treaty that risks sparking a fresh row with the UK over the Irish border.” …says the Telegraph.

      So, a ‘divorce’ treaty which is fully compliant with an existing crucial international treaty, the Good Friday Agreement, is considered controversial now!?

    242. Welsh Sion says:

      Welsh reports on the Wales Continuity Bill. Thanks to Google Translate for a quick version).

      Welsh Government presents an Emergency Bill to protect devolution

      27 February 2018 at 12:24 Last updated 28 February 2018 at 07:39

      golwg360

      Plans for the introduction of an Emergency Bill will be outlined by the Welsh Government today (February 27), in an attempt to protect devolution in Wales after Brexit.

      This step comes as the Welsh Government is worried about the way the Brexit Bill is currently drafted, meaning that the Westminster Government will be allowed to take control over devolved areas such as farming and fishing following Brexit.

      They are also submitting plans for this bill because there has been no agreement between the Welsh Government and Westminster on reforming parts of the Brexit Bill.

      As part of the Urgent Bill, the Welsh Government is hoping to transfer EU Law in devolved areas to be part of Welsh law after Brexit, ensuring legal certainty for Welsh businesses.

      “Protecting the current devolution settlement”

      According to the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, the Welsh Government wants to continue to be “constructive partners” in discussions with the United Kingdom for introducing the changes to the Brexit Bill.

      But he also insists that it would not be “acceptable to all” the people of Wales if Westminster had the right to take power from the Assembly to manage areas that have already been devolved.

      “Let me say clearly, our Bill will not be an attempt to prevent or prevent Brexit,” said Carwyn Jones.

      “The only thing we are trying to do is protect the current devolution settlement for Wales, making sure there is legal certainty when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union.”

      https://golwg360.cymru/newyddion/cymru/513847-llywodraeth-cymru-cyflwyno-brys-amddiffyn

    243. galamcennalath says:

      Meg merrilees says:

      … arrogant and has a ‘no-surrender’ attitude … this is one heck of an arrogant tory government … an attempt to break up the UK ….

      They just ooze entitlement and exceptionalism.

      Wind the clock forward a short period. Imagine IndyRef2 has just happened and YES has won by a reasonable margin. How are these same arrogant Greater-England-Nationalist Tories going to react?

      Will they sit down at the table and agree to sort out the separating of ways amicably? Will they be reasonable and pragmatically find an ongoing setup within these Isles for everyone’s mutual benefit?

      Nae chance! They will chuck their toys from the pram and attempt to sabotage the disengagement!

    244. CameronB Brodie says:

      Generally, the Tories don’t do ethics, especially not bio-ethics. The Conservatives are the still the party of social Darwinism and “blood-and-soil” concerns over social degeneration. England is essentially Tory in practice, if not in public affiliation. Scotland must defend itself!

      New Tory vice-chair Ben Bradley suggested unemployed should have vasectomies

      Ben Bradley – named one of 13 vice-chairs of the party during last week’s Cabinet reshuffle – said the UK would be “drowning in a vast sea of unemployed wasters” unless those out of work limited the number of children they produce.

      https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/news/92121/new-tory-vice-chair-ben-bradley-suggested

    245. crazycat says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland at 2.21

      Which leaves me wondering if these two polar opposite conclusions are merely due to legal difference, political affiliation, or instead to personal character – possibly a woman with a backbone and a man without?

      Yes, I did wonder that myself. Ken is certainly a Grade A cringer. There was a suggestion that he has legal advisors, though, so maybe he can hide behind them.

    246. Proud Cybernat says:

      BREAKING from Pravda Quay
      with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

      https://imgur.com/a/Z8NRc

    247. Dr Jim says:

      Must be my ears, all I can hear now is high pitched noises squealing *But but England are supposed to win, we’re the winners why won’t anybody listen*

    248. Bobp says:

      O/t thousands of jobs at risk as toys r us and maplins go into administration ,And we’ve not even seen a hard brexit yet. Still better together Scotland. You better make your minds up soon. Before westminster take us back to the stone age.

    249. ronnie anderson says:

      Ffs ah didnae know how popular that Anderson Tartan was Humsa Yousaf wearing a Anderson tie ah need tae find out which branch of the Oak Tree Humsa’s fae , ( don’t mention that fecker Barrowman ) he’s ne even ah twig in the family tree lol.

    250. Marie Clark says:

      Hubble, bubble, toil and trouble right enough. It’s all bubbling along nicely now.

      The Maybot will be required to make some decisions, and she ain’t too good at that. It’s the Tory arrogance and sense of entitlement that gets me. It’s everyone else whose causing all this trouble.It never seems to enter their empty heads, that it’s their own doing.Cameron caused all of this by trying to sort out a bun fight in the conservative party, with no thought as to what might happen if he lost. He was so arrogant, that never entered is mind that he might actually lose. Then when he did, he shot the craw at high speed.

      Oh well, as I always felt the Tories mean to crash out of the EU without a deal. Blame Johnny Furriner, The Irish, the Sweaties, anyone but themselves. The Eu is trying to break up the UK, really! Geez a break, you have only yourselves to blame for that.

      By the way when are thatsnpee gonnae resign ower a that snaw?

    251. Macart says:

      5,4,3,2,1…

      https://archive.is/Fyu2L

      …BOORACH!

    252. Dan Huil says:

      Hilarious stuff from desperate British nationalists today in the britnat media. Scotland is right to make hay while the sun hides from Westminster. You’ve got to laugh.

      Empire2.0?! Ha ha ha!

    253. Luigi says:

      Proud Cybernat says:

      28 February, 2018 at 11:26 am

      BREAKING from Pravda Quay
      with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

      https://imgur.com/a/Z8NRc

      Indeed. The BREXIT civil war has burst into the open, with yesterday’s events we are now facing the biggest constitutional crisis for 300 years….

      And the MacChatterers at the good ol’ BBC decide it’s a good day to talk about snaw.

      Somehow I think that people want to talk about something other than squirrels, snaw, SNP bad etc.

      But hey ho, they command the airwaves. All for the good of the union eh. 🙂

    254. Orri says:

      Fun thing about Sturgeon’s right and duty as a member of the Privy Council to advise on the use of Royal Privilege especially in devolved matters is that it isn’t specifically restricted to Scotland. The implication being that she can advise, merely advise mind you, that our Head of State veto Westminster legislation.

      Would be fun to see that put to the test.

    255. Proud Cybernat says:

      Yae really get a sense now that the BREXIT shit really has just hit the fan big style and is busily redecorating the all the walls and furniture at a rate of knots.

      Not a pretty pattern emerging… UK is SOOOOoooo screwed.

    256. Legerwood says:

      Scotland and Union

      David M Walker was Regius Professor of Law in the University of Glasgow from 1958-1990

      http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-6/1004238.aspx
      Written to mark the 300th Anniversary
      ………
      This article revisits the article by Professor Walker above and deals with the risk continuator issue.

      “”…this essay argues that the “rUK continuator” analysis of Scottish independence by Professors Crawford and Boyle is legally and historically unsound
      by Ian Campbell””

      http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Preview/1014185.aspx#.WpaUG6mny9e
      ……….
      An article on Parliamentary Sovereignty from 2011 from the Cake of Custom blog (Jottings on the British Constitution).

      http://cakeofcustom.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/parliament-is-not-sovereign.html
      ……………..
      An article by S Douglas-Scott from October 2016 on ‘The Great Repeal Bill’ as it was then called. Still relevant to what is happening now.

      https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016/10/10/sionaidh-douglas-scott-the-great-repeal-bill-constitutional-chaos-and-constitutional-crisis/
      ………….
      Extract from the book ‘Impaled upon the Thistle’. The section deals with Parliamentary Sovereignty and Popular Sovereignty. The book is by Ewan Cameron.

      https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6tWqBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334&dq=lord+cooper+and+obiter+on+sovereignty&source=bl&ots=gTN1VhYYzl&sig=pXAX3jkmqejOjRYrE1pEW3Lanbo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjykqaQht3RAhXMDxoKHb_xBIEQ6AEIGDAF#v=onepage&q=lord%20cooper%20and%20obiter%20on%20sovereignty&f=true
      ………….
      And finally, because I have to make the lunch not because I have run out of articles, S Douglas-Scott again this time on Brexit and Sovereignty.

      https://constitution-unit.com/tag/popular-sovereignty/

      Lots of reading which will save you battling through the snow to the charity shop for some books If you were minded to do so.

    257. call me dave says:

      We shall hear what Mr Wolffe has to say today then and also her darn Sarf will utter some more waffle.

      @CameronB Brodie

      Ah your posting again… 🙂

      PS: From the 1950s

      Bebogobbolobulobweeed! 🙁

    258. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – it’s an Obiter Dicta worth dicting as required! I particularly like:

      I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to the Parliament of England. That is not what was done.

      Would be worth engineering a situation where that COULD be the legal decision.

      @ Meg merrilees – someone has already archived the BBC page so it is preserved. Here is the archive.is link:
      http://archive.is/MTe8z

      @ Iain Mhor – thx for the link. I will read it with interest. The article I saw was an academic paper he had published but the Glasgow Uni page said it wasn’t available. (i.e. not just unavailable if you don’t have an athens number).
      Still – he appears to change his mind so often it may be “academic” reading anything he wrote even last week.

    259. Legerwood says:

      Bobp says:
      28 February, 2018 at 11:43 am
      O/t thousands of jobs at risk as toys r us and maplins go into administration ,And we’ve not even seen a hard brexit yet. Still better together Scotland. You better make your minds up soon. Before westminster take us back to the stone age.””

      ………
      I think you can add Ryanair closing its operations at Glasgow Airport to what will no doubt be a growing list.

      The Herald has a short analysis piece about the implications of Brexit on the airline sector. This may just be the beginning. Behind pay wall so no link.

    260. Legerwood says:

      Capella @ 12.13 pm

      The article linked to below gives a few more examples of cases in Scottish Courts, and in English Courts, where the issue of Parliamentary Sovereignty has been questioned.

      An article on Parliamentary Sovereignty from 2011 from the Cake of Custom blog (Jottings on the British Constitution).
      http://cakeofcustom.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/parliament-is-not-sovereign.html

      I have submitted a longer post with quite a few links but it seems to be held up perhaps because of the links.

    261. Robert Kerr says:

      Jason Michael aka Jeggit has this to say.

      https://randompublicjournal.com/2018/02/28/westminster-is-playing-scotland-for-time/

      “So why did we not have even the same power yesterday as the Welsh Assembly? Mark Hirst at Radio Sputnik pointed at Paul Grice, saying that his “fingerprints [were] all over it.” Sir Paul Grice KBE – recently knighted in the 2016 New Year Honours for his “services to the Scottish parliament” – is the senior civil servant who babysits the Presiding Officer. As Clerk and Chief Executive of the Scottish Parliament he is responsible for delivering all services to the Parliament and its Members. He is the Parliament’s “principal adviser on procedural and constitutional matters.”

      Paul Grice should be familiar to all who watch FMQ,

      The bald whisperer who sits alongside the PO.

      Google him if you wish.

      And we thought it was just the D’Hundt voting system that was built in to the Scottish Parliament to cripple it!

    262. Dan Huil says:

      A view from Ireland [another country which British nationalists treat with contempt]:

      https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/north-would-stay-under-eu-customs-union-rules-under-draft-treaty-1.3408007

    263. Orri says:

      The Parliament Act makes it clear that where a government is elected it’s Manifesto pledges trump the HoL who can only suggest amendments and delay for so long before they must give way.

      That’s an admission of the fact that even in UK law sovereignty ultimately derives from the people.

      That aside, there’s yet to be an attempt to introduce Parliamentary Sovereignty into Scots’ Law. Never mind an overriding alignment act requiring it to mirror rUK laws. Such would break the terms of the Treaty of Union as it would end SL as a distinct system in all but name.

    264. Luigi says:

      In spite of the gigantic Irish problem, does anyone else get the impression that the biggest worry over BREXIT for WM is Scotland?

      Whether through attacks, lies/distractions or downright ignoring important events, the media’s attention focus (in decreasing order of importance) seems to be:

      1. Scotland
      2. NI
      3. Wales

      No disrespect to the other devolved countries, but are we the biggest current threat to their in these troubled times?

    265. Robert Peffers says:

      @Flower of Scotland says: 27 February, 2018 at 11:56 pm:

      “Thanks for that PDF on Sovereignty. I’ve put it into my iBooks for future reference. It will come in very handy.”

      Hi, Flower of Scotland, I’ve now been able to read it myself with a clear head and a fully working again brain.

      It seems the authors have arrived at the correct legal interpretations but also seems= to have drawn from these legal interpretations some quite strange wrong conclusions. A bit anti-SNP and Holyrood parliament in fact.

      I’ll explain my own, and I emphasis that it is just my own, interpretations.

      The legal facts are 100% correct. Mainly that under Scots law the people are legally sovereign and even the Westminster Establishment has grudgingly acknowledged that in comparatively recent Westminster legislation.

      For example. In the Kingdom of England the concept of private land ownership stems from a sovereign monarchy owning everything including everyone beneath the monarchy being the monarch’s subjects. i.e. The monarch was God’s representative on Earth and God selected who would represent him/herself by God causing the heir to the throne to come from a royal womb or by selecting which, if there were several princes/princesses, survived or died.

      The Kingdom of England was run under the Rule of Law of, “Divine Right of Kings”, until 1688 and the English Kingdom’s, “Glorious Revolution”, when the English Parliament rebelled against their rightful monarch, (according to the Divine Right of Kings), and deposed their monarch and imported the foreign joint Monarchs William & Mary.

      In fact they first invited Mary of Orange who was at least in their kingdoms direct royal line but Mary declined as she did not want her husband Billy to become a consort. The parliamentarians then invited the pair to become a joint monarchy and Mary accepted the invitation.

      However, in 1688 the Kingdom of Scotland was still a legally fully independent Kingdom and the English claims that there had been a, “Union of the Crowns”, in 1603 were never legally accepted.

      That meant the rebellion of the English Kingdom’s parliamentarians of 1688 did not remove the concept that the Monarchy was sovereign. It only made it legal that the monarchy of the kingdom of England was legally forced to delegated their, “Divine Right of Kings”, (sovereignty), to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England while still remaining legally sovereign.

      They are still legally sovereign under English law. It is Her Majesty’s Government after all.

      The concept of Divine Right of Kings was not legally applied in Scotland by the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320. It was then, in 1320, accepted as true by the then international authority of the Holy Roman Se and enshrined in Scots law.

      Now we must consider how the system of feudalism affected the laws of both kingdoms differently. Under the feudal system, the sovereign monarchy still owns everything and everyone in the kingdom. Under the way that Divine Right works any monarch who defeated another monarch by war just absorbed the defeated monarchy into their existing kingdoms.

      Thus the size of monarchies was always growing and thus becoming too large to be effectively governed by a single individual monarch.

      Thus the monarch created a hierarchy of underling noble aristocrats who in turn delegated powers to the next lower layer of power and each succeeding layer were paid for with the grant of lands. At the bottom of the heap were the serfs, villeins or actual slaves who owned no land. There were certain trades that were actually freemen such as blacksmiths who made armour and Fletchers, (weapon makers who made arrows).

      This had only a limited effect in Scotland as the monarch was legally not the owner of Scotland and there was no Norman conquest. The Normans were absorbed into the Scottish aristocracy by marriage. King Robert Bruce was the son of such a mixed Norman/Gaelic marriage.

      So when modern Westminster legislated for the clamping of vehicles by private landowners in the English Kingdoms countries they had to legislate differently for Scotland as there is no English style Trespass law in Scotland.

      Thus if a private landlord clamps a vehicle on their land in Scotland and demands payment for the vehicle’s release back to the owner it is the clamper who is breaking the laws of Scotland. First of all as the people are sovereign they own Scotland and have legal right to roam.

      Scots law also specifically stipulates that it is a criminal offence to demand money with menace and actually stipulates a threat of legal action to enforce that payment is Extortion. There is no crimes of Blackmail or trespass under Scots law.

      So Westminster knows full well that the people of Scotland are sovereign. However, back to the article.

      The authors of this article seem rather anti-SNP/SG with their claim that the SNP/SG are also acting illegally and are not sovereign. The first bit is wrong, but more of that later. The second is correct in that the SG is indeed not sovereign because only the people are sovereign and hereby lies their error of wrong interpretation.

      The SG has been ultra careful on that very exact point. Nicola has always stuck to one overall point in every move the SNP/SG have made over this whole issue. They have never made a move without a specific mandate from a majority of the electorate on whatever the specific move concerned.

      Not only that but logically when a majority of the legally sovereign people of Scotland elect an MEP, MP, MSP, or even a local councillor, the fact that the electorate are legally sovereign means they have delegated their legal sovereignty to that elected person to act on their behalf.

      Whereas, in the Kingdom of England countries, when the voter votes for a candidate they are voting for a person to exercise the sovereignty of the Queen/King of England.

      There really can be no other interpretation – English law states that the Queen of England is Sovereign and everything, under English law belongs to the Monarch.

      Westminster is, after all legally, “Her Majesty’s Government”. That being so Westminster is not sovereign. English Law changed the law in 1688 when they kept their monarchy legally sovereign but made their sovereigns legally delegate their Divine Right to Rule to the now long defunct, (311 years), Parliament of England but also in 1688 their legal judgements stated that the Monarchy could not give away their legal sovereignty as it legally belonged to the Kingdom and not to the crowned monarch.

      Hence the announcement upon the death of an English Monarch is, “The King/Queen is dead – Long live the King/Queen”.

      Furthermore, a monarch cannot just give legal sovereignty away but can only abdicate it to the next in line. the term, “abdicate”, is defined as, “fail to fulfil or undertake”, (a responsibility or duty).

      In Scotland the people are legally sovereign and they are very unlikely to all die at once so there is no chance of them becoming not sovereign. Thus our elected representatives are, by definition, our delegates to use our sovereignty and chosen by a majority.

    266. Robert Louis says:

      Legerwood at 0943am, and Capella earlier at 0139am,

      The full text from the MacCormick case in 1953 is located at;

      http://www.bailii.org/scot/cases/ScotCS/1953/1953_SC_396.html

      I note the comments regarding the nature of the quoted section from the then Lord president, Lord Cooper at the Court of Session in Edinburgh, that it wasn’t a fundamental part of the judgement. However, it must be said, that a great deal of comment on his legal remarks regarding the Scottish constitution and Scots law have been made since, both within and outwith legal circles.

      He clearly outlined the fact that the notion of unlimited parliamentary sovereignty is something entirely from England, and not something recognised in Scots law. Most importantly, he re-asserted that the treaty of union of 1707 resulted in a NEW parliament, not merely a continuation of the English Parliament to which Scots were now admitted. Thus, he wisely questioned, just why it is supposed that the NEW parliament would merely adopt the constitutional principles and procedures of the OLD English parliament.

      The relevant quote are;

      “The principle of the unlimited sovereignty of Parliament is a distinctively English principle which has no counterpart in Scottish constitutional law.”

      “..I have difficulty in seeing why it should have been supposed that the new Parliament of Great Britain must inherit all the peculiar characteristics of the English Parliament but none of the Scottish Parliament, as if all that happened in 1707 was that Scottish representatives were admitted to the Parliament of England. That is not what was done. “

      Some may also find this article interesting;

      http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/52-6/1004238.aspx

      and this interesting review, pre-the first independence referendum;

      https://www.strath.ac.uk/media/1newwebsite/departmentsubject/law/documents/studentlawreview/Halliday_SSLR_article_1.6.pdf

    267. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 28 February, 2018 at 9:59 am:

      Brian Doonthetoon @ 11.02 am and Robert Peffers @ 11.47 pm
      Thank you for your replies. You both seem to be referring to the case of MacCormick vs The Lord Advocate which was about the Regnal Number Queen Elizabeth should adopt in Scotland.

      No. It was not that case and I’m unable to trace some of my saved references just now as my rather large desktop machine, and my other laptop. are out of action and will be out of date until I can get the house sorted out again after some big reinstallations and pending renovations.

    268. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – thx for the link to an interesting website. We will all be experts in constitutional law by the end of this week.

      R4 World at One getting very excited about EU issue of a draft law. Stand back.

      Next up will be the Lord Advocate telling the PO what the legal position is in Scotland. Cups of tea all round.

    269. Robert Louis says:

      Legerwood and bobp,

      Yes, more economic disaster. In case anybody doesn’t yet realise just how f****d the ‘UK’ actually is, just remember this wee list;

      Woolworth
      C&A (still open around Europe)
      British Home Stores
      Banana republic
      Staples
      Barratts shoes,
      and many, many more.

      Marks and Spencer closing stores, and now Toysrus and Maplin going out of business.

      and many others.

      Then their is the rapidly disappearing banks and post offices.

      This isn’t just an ‘oh well, people do internet shopping thing now’, either, just visit other major developed countries around Europe and look on in amazement as you see retail store after retail store…oh, and ACTUAL banks.

      All we have here is coffee shops, charity shops, kebab shops and ‘pound’ shops.* Welcome to ‘Brexit Brittin’.

      We need independence ASAP to get away from the brexit loonies in England.

      * Note: except for viewers in London W1.

    270. Robert Louis says:

      Let me save the rabid British Nationalists some time.

      ‘The snow is terrible. It is all the fault of the SNP/Scottish executive/Edinburgh assembly. Sturgeon should resign. SNP bad.’

      🙂

    271. galamcennalath says:

      Luigi says:

      In spite of the gigantic Irish problem, does anyone else get the impression that the biggest worry over BREXIT for WM is Scotland?

      Definitely! TMay’s only real interest in NI is the DUP votes. If they didn’t have to rely on those, they would be quite happy about either reunification or NI staying in the single market.

      Their biggest worry is Scotland for sure. There’s the prestige / status element, then the military / strategic side, and last but not least the economic / oil issues. I am fairly sure while they don’t talk about it openly, they are terrified of IndyRef2.

      A hard Brexit England, surrounded on all sided by European single market countries, would a total basket case! A banana republic kingdom with nae bananas!

    272. galamcennalath says:

      Macart says:

      Anyone see this?

      Someone with the necessary skills and software DEFINITELY needs to get a clip of that captured!

    273. Doug Bryce says:

      Does anyone remember in 2014 when Theresa May told us Scottish independence would mean the UK would need to en-force a border ?

      excuse my schadenfreude.

      “Theresa May would seek passport checks between Scotland and England”
      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/14/passport-checks-needed-between-independent-scotland-and-england

    274. Legerwood says:

      Robert Louis @ 12.57

      Thank you for the links both of which I have. In fact if memory serves me right, and it may not, I think the link to the law journal online may be one that you got from me several articles ago. Note ‘several’ may be quite a big number.

      I have the Halliday article too and I have just found someone’s thesis on the subject but the snow is not deep enough yet for me to start on that!

      There are several cases where the issue of sovereignty has been raised and the link I posted for Capella @ 12.13pm gives some of them.

      I did post something about an hour ago with a whole host of links, perhaps too many because it has not appeared yet.

    275. stewartb says:

      Iain mhor @ 9:38 am

      Thanks for the link to Tomkins’ evidence. There is much of interest here, especially the extracts he provides to obiter comments made by Lord Hope in a 2005/6 legal judgement.

      Source: Written Evidence from Professor Adam Tomkins ….. on CLAUSE 18 OF THE BILL: PARLIAMENTARY SOVEREIGNTY AND EU LAW (November 2010)

      https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmselect/cmeuleg/633ii/633we02.htm

      Tomkins writes: “DEFINITION OF PARLIAMENTARY SOVEREIGNTY

      4. Dicey’s definition of parliamentary sovereignty (The Law of the Constitution (1885), pp 39-40) was as follows:

      The principle of Parliamentary sovereignty means neither more nor less than this, namely, that Parliament . . . has, under the English constitution, the right to make or unmake any law whatever; and, further, that no person or body is recognised by the law of England as having a right to override or set aside the legislation of Parliament.

      5. The sovereignty of Parliament is a doctrine whose cardinal importance to the British constitution would be difficult to exaggerate. As the “keystone” of the constitution (as Dicey called it), what is meant is that the doctrine is no less than “the central principle” of the system, “on which all the rest depends” ..…”

      For a non lawyer, I find it notable that as late as 1885 Dicey – an often claimed prime authority on constitutional matters – refers to Parliamentary sovereignty in the context of an ENGLISH constitution and then Tomkins (seamlessly) shifts to his reference to the BRITISH constitution. Sloppy writing or simply an acceptance that they are one and the same thing?

      Later in his submission, Tompkins makes reference to obiter comments in Jackson v Attorney General [2005] UKHL 56, [2006] 1 AC 262 which also refer to definition and status of sovereignty.

      Quoting Lord Hope (Para 27)  “Thirdly, two of Lord Steyn’s descriptions (of a ‘divided sovereignty’) are worth noting. First, he describes the devolution legislation of 1998 as pointing to ‘a divided sovereignty’. It is not at all clear what this means.

      The Scottish Parliament, created by the Scotland Act 1998, which his Lordship cites, is anything but a sovereign legislature, as the Scotland Act makes abundantly plain.

      Moreover, the existence of the Scottish Parliament has done nothing to limit the legal power of the Westminster Parliament to legislate for Scotland, even on ostensibly devolved matters: see Scotland Act 1998, section 28(7).

      The political reality may for the time being be that the Westminster Parliament will not legislate for Scotland on devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament, but this behaviour results from a political agreement and has nothing to do with the legal principles that Lord Steyn is concerned with.”

      Note, Lord Hope’s comments here date back to c. 2005. It appears that nothing much has changed in terms of the legal status of the Scottish Parliament as set by the English constitution, English legal system and de facto English parliament. But I guess many here know we were sold a pup in 2014, and by the Smith Commission and the subsequent Scotland Act.

    276. Bob Mack says:

      Scotland is a problem in more ways than one. If Scotland wins any case on maintaining it’s devolved powers then how can Westminster negotiate for the UK on future trade deals, because the laws,regulations and standards on products in Scotland would be different. Future trade deals would only assure England could be included.

    277. Lenny Hartley says:

      galamcennalath Not the James Kelly I presume your thinking off, thiat one writes the pro indy blog Scotland goes pop.

    278. Bob Mack says:

      Regardless of what legal experts say,there is one pertinent fact. The Treaty of Union is between two Kingdoms, as was set out to regard each Kingdom as being equal.

      I have several friends who are lawyers and Unionist, and I have asked them all to show me a document which officially states that
      1. Scotland is only a subordinate partner in the Union or
      2. A legal document which states that Scotland as a country has been legally abolished.
      3. A legal ruling that says the people of Scotland are not sovereign.

      What I get back is assertion from cases,presumptions from judgements, and implications from accepted procedure.

      What I have never had back is an official court ruling that Scotland no longer exists as an entity. There is nothing tangible which they can use to prove that issue.

    279. Ottomanboi says:

      If the union between England and Scotland were perceived as a marriage, it might well be regarded as a historically abusive relationship. It wouldn’t be a question of mere divorce but that of annulment given that undue pressure and coercion was brought to bear on the Scottish party and that beyond the matchmakers ‘the family’ were largely opposed to the union.
      Viewed in a contemporary context, universal agreement being lacking, there was never actually a union, let alone any ‘consummation’.
      To paraphrase Vergil, beware the English, even when they bring gifts.

    280. galamcennalath says:

      Devolved powers. I seem to remember the entire EU / Canada trade deal was held up because one of Belgium’s devolved regions wouldn’t initially agree to it.

      Also, often we hear about 27 EU members having to vote of things. However, I have read about 30odd parliaments needing to pass some deals.

      Clearly some countries honour and respect the views of individual ‘sub state’ parliaments in international negotiations.

      Only in UKOK does WM insist all decisions are it’s to take, even if that overrules the democratic will of the constituent nations’ elected parliaments.

    281. Dr Jim says:

      If every vote in Scotland counted as ten then we might be close to being equal

      Then again we’d still be horrible inferior Jocks, so how equal would we ever be, a bit like the American Indian or Australian Aborigine or Maori, Amazonian Pygmies, I believe the four or five of them left are protected so that might be nice

      Oh, a word on Shetland fishermen who believe they own the sea and all the fish in it forevermore, *Arseholes*
      One guy said they can’t get people to come and live there
      I’m shocked, they all seem so nice with their lovely *work for us and then get out* attitude

      I’ll be mentioning that at conference when the subsidised ferries to Shetland that I pay for come up

    282. galamcennalath says:

      Lenny Hartley says:

      galamcennalath Not the James Kelly I presume your thinking off, thiat one writes the pro indy blog Scotland goes pop.

      No, that is the one Macart linked to. James ‘Goes Pop’ Kelly was referring to TMay refusing to answer whether she thought the UK was still a partnership of equals.

      My point was, her being unable to answer that should be dynamite. A captured clip is needed.

    283. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      Curiously I was thinking last night in an incredibly sexist fashion, that if the parliament of 1705-1707 had been women not men, the Union probably wouldn’t have heppened, and if it had the deal would have been much much better as instead of letting the Queen’s Comissioner negotiate for the Scottish Parliament with, errrr, himself, the women would have had the guts to do it themselves.

      Having said that all the same, it seems the death threats were not against the individuals, but against their families, and women would be just as susceptible to that.

    284. Ian Brotherhood says:

      ‘… this bill *is* within the legislative competence of this parliament…’

      Lord Advocate, two minutes ago, in the Scottish Parliament.

      😉

    285. yesindyref2 says:

      @Ian B
      Having read the PO’s statement I’d likely have done the same as him, then sat there today happy as larry listening to Wolffe saying it IS within the competence. It’s the safe fallback option and protects Holyrood’s reputation – something vital considering Holyrood itself is under attack from Westminster.

      Two things though, if this is not within the competence, then neither is the Westminster EU Withdrawal Bill as it hasn’t happened yet.

      And secondly, the spending in Scotland’s Future and all similar spending for the Independence Referendum was considerd to be totally legal as it was preparing for future legislation, even if that didn’t happen, and surely the same principle should apply to legislation itself.

    286. Golfnut says:

      Parliamentary Sovereignty is a purely English principal, or words to that effect. The elephant in the room on this matter is that English sovereignty still resides with the Queen, its on loan to the English Parliament, or more correctly, she rents it out to the English Parliament. The English crown speaks for England Wales and NI, not Scotland.

      Had the Union of the Crowns actually taken place, it could perhaps be argued that she also speaks for Scotland, but since it is debate able whether or not the Scottish Parliament was itself sovereign, and had no authority to authorise or transfer that sovereignty to Westminster, that sovereignty lies with the people of Scotland.

      When the Supreme court ruled that the Scottish Parliament did not need to be consulted on Brexit, they gave the Treaty of Union a wide body swerve by stating yet again the sovereignty of the Scottish people was carried to Westminster by their elected MP’s. IMO Mays snap GE was held to try and remove the pro Indy majority of MPs, and failed miserably.

    287. yesindyref2 says:

      Incidentally, talking about the PO when he was on TV during Indy Ref 1, if ever there was a guy whose heart wasn’t in what he was saying it was him. It seemed to me as much as he could be bothered doing saying like Indy bad, Union good with a total lack of conviction and glazed eyes. I had him marked as a potential YESser.

    288. Red weather warning,

      basically, leave work/play and get home.

    289. If you work in the emergency services and can`t get home,

      stay safe out there.

    290. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Viewed in a contemporary context, universal agreement being lacking, there was never actually a union, let alone any ‘consummation’.”

      Disagree. Our English ‘partner’ has been fucking us for centuries.

    291. Robert Peffers says:

      O/T:

      I came across this old Wings article while looking for something else:-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-sovereignty-for-dummies/

      It may be of interest again.

    292. Graeme says:

      galamcennalath says:
      28 February, 2018 at 1:42 pm

      Macart says:

      Anyone see this?

      Someone with the necessary skills and software DEFINITELY needs to get a clip of that captured!

      ———————————————————————–

      If someone could tell me where I could find the clip it should be a trivial matter to download it and save it
      if someone

    293. ScottieDog says:

      @Bob Mack
      “If Scotland wins any case on maintaining it’s devolved powers then how can Westminster negotiate for the UK on future trade deals”

      The two are basically incompatible. I think Gordon Macintyre Kemp commented on this recently.

      If we think logically about this, If Scotland IS an economic basket case as we constantly hear, then how can anything scotland has to offer be a worthwhile bargaining chip in brexit talks.
      It makes no sense.

    294. Thepnr says:

      “Brexit chickens are coming home to roost”

      This is a pretty good article, no very good article from Ian Dunt.

      The prime minister today insisted that the proposal would enforce a hard border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. That is clearly going to be the Brexit attack line. But it is nonsense. It is May who is enforcing a hard border, by insisting we leave the single market and customs union. The British government must get something straight: Either you keep an open border in Ireland, or you leave the customs union and single market. You cannot have both.

      I’ll be honest I’ve always believed that some kind of deal would be made with the EU before the UK exits. I believed this because it seemed obvious that it must if we are not all to suffer a huge drop in living standards.

      Public services already under huge strain from austerity will be hit hardest, we will all suffer unless you have mega bucks already.

      I hadn’t counted though that the most vocalist of the Brexiteers including Johnson, Fox, Gove and Rees-Mogg might actually be insane.

      Now I think we’re up shit creek without a paddle and Indyref2 is the only thing that can save us from the Mad Brexiteers.

      http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/02/28/n-ireland-isn-t-being-annexed-brexit-chickens-are-coming-hom

    295. Dr Jim says:

      The Express strikes a Michael Corleone tone :

      Sturgeon’s lost the plot: says the front page of the Express
      then it goes on to talk about Sturgeon obeying the rules of the EU post Brexit

      Wales has lost the plot Ireland has lost the plot the EU has lost the plot everybody has lost the plot except the Tories

    296. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      I hadn’t counted though that the most vocalist of the Brexiteers including Johnson, Fox, Gove and Rees-Mogg might actually be insane.

      Came to the same conclusion myself, and if you think about it, in a normal sane civilised society, these people would be marked c/o care in the community, but in what has become the UK, they’re movers and shakers.

      Good grief 🙁

    297. call me dave says:

      @Graeme

      PMs Questions. Today.

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d1533e71-dc9b-476b-86ba-6ba54265f681

      Ian blackford questions:beginning at.

      12hrs 18mins 46secs

    298. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, I know I shouldn’t. You’ve got Johnson wanting to bomb Syria and put in ground troops. Well, apart from any moral problem, let’s look at the logistics of this for a wee minit.

      Invincible is gone, so no LPH (helicopter carrier). QE ain’t ready till 2020, and even then limited numbers of F35-B (probably 6 to 8 operational). Ocean is being sold to Brazil, so there’s in total, no air support, no or little amphibious apart frm Albion and / or Bulwark. Tornadoes are on the way to being stood down in favour of F35-B of which the UK only has 15 so far, all in training. Typhoon is almost ready for swing role, but not quite. More suited to QRA duties anyway. Fleet escorts – well, the T45 is up for refits for the generators.

      The RN and RAF are in flux right now (I did say flux). By 2023 the UK will or should be ready, compact but very well equipped, but at the moment it’s halfway through a redesign in defence forces.

      Go to Syria? Get a passport and visa and go by charter holiday.

    299. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY. Scottish Parliament TV

      THE LORD ADVOCATE ADDRESSES THE CHAMBER ON THE EUROPEAN WITHDRAWAL BILL.

      https://tinyurl.com/yd8y6zyw
      Scroll to 14:11:14

    300. Les Wilson says:

      I am really glad all the sovereignty issues have finally come to the fore. Westminster has hidden and body swerved the question of Scottish sovereignty for centuries. Cheating us at every turn despite knowing our status. A time of reckoning gets much
      nearer. As someone else said, you can feel the quickening!

    301. Macart says:

      @call me dave

      Good catch and he did indeed post that question on equal partnership, which the PM then refused to answer directly.

      Jings!

    302. Stravaiger says:

      Ok just thinking out loud.

      TM is relying on a slim and rather shoogly majority to push her hard Brexit plans through.
      What if, for some reason, some MPs, say, about 35 MPs, abstained, or maybe for some reason simply weren’t there to vote any more. That would give her a much better chance. In fact she would’t even need the DUP any more.

      Of course there would have to be a REALLY good reason for that to happen… 😉

    303. Dr Jim says:

      Oliver Mundell in the chamber just now says:

      People from Dumfries and Galloway consider themselves to be living in another part of the country

      Does he mean this country of Scotland or another country?
      It gets confusing when the Britnats keep calling the whole of the British Isles *The country*

      If he means the folk who have moved from another country to this country because it’s better here they could go back to the other country which they left because it’s not as good as this country although they say it’s all the one country

      What a country he is

    304. Daisy Walker says:

      Breaking.

      Have a look at Kirsty Hughes twitter account folks. Video of John Major doing a speech and Q and A. Actually talking like a reasonable and rational human being… and being allowed to get valid points across about brexshit over without being interrupted.

      Looks as if the Establishment has chosen its new leader for Brexshit Ref 2 or more likely defeat full brexshit in house of commons and maintain single market and customs union in some form – thereby null and voiding any further Indy Ref 2 for Scotland and keeping the cash cow that is Scotland.

      They will still sell off the NHS, but do so more slowly.
      They will stop the renewables for the distant future, and max out full profits on Scotland’s Oil and Gas.
      Tax dodging on the offshore accounts… hmmm bet they’ve got that covered for those and such as those. The new money’d comers will be handed over to the European Court of Justice, sacrificial lambs to appease the mob.

      The games afoot.

      Thepnr – I hadn’t counted on the main Brexiteers, Johnson, Grove and Reece-Mogg being insane’

      I don’t think they are. I think they are seriously nasty pieces of work with an ideology to engineer poverty and profiteer from same, and they’re playing the very biggest of stakes on the worlds biggest stage. They won’t be backing down any time soon.

    305. Proud Cybernat says:

      WEATHER UPDATE from Pravda Quay
      with Union Jackie Kim Ono:

      https://imgur.com/a/34Od9

    306. Bob Mack says:

      Stuart Hose just outlined the problem in a sentence.

      The Scotland Act states that powers not reserved by the Act ,are powers that have to be devolved.

      Tories want in effect to ignore what is in the Act, because they made an ass in drafting it in the first place.

      Hence,they try to use henry 8 powers which I do not believe can be used to change major legislation,but can alter features of it. This is why Nicola would be very confident a court would uphold the legislation in The Scotland Act.

    307. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      28 February, 2018 at 2:41 pm
      O/T:

      I came across this old Wings article while looking for something else:-

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-sovereignty-for-dummies/

      It may be of interest again.””
      ……….

      With all due respect Mr Peffers, I do not think an understanding of what sovereignty is the issue but rather the legality of the principle in the constitutional context of Scotland. Lots of legal opinion in the various links given in this thread but none so far on the actual legal ruling.

      As you said in an earlier post, you have the reference somewhere to the actual case where the ruling was made so we shall have await your re-discovery of the reference.

      In the meantime another link to be going on with which has some relevance to Brexit too:

      https://constitution-unit.com/tag/popular-sovereignty/

      It is also worth mentioning that the English Courts and legal scholars have also questioned the sovereignty of Parliament as practised by Westminster. See my earlier link in a reply to Capella.

    308. Graeme says:

      call me dave says:
      28 February, 2018 at 3:04 pm

      @Graeme

      PMs Questions. Today.

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/d1533e71-dc9b-476b-86ba-6ba54265f681

      Ian blackford questions:beginning at.

      12hrs 18mins 46secs

      ———————————————————————–

      Yeah I got it trying to find a way to download it I tried a screencast but this PC isn’t powerful enough but my home PC should be powerful enough, but at least I have the sound file for now

    309. Ottomanboi says:

      In the whole history of the world independence per se has never been freely given, it has had to be taken, often by some measure of ‘force’.
      Even when a state calls itself a democracy that still applies.
      I hope the scales are beginning to fall from Scotland’s eyes in that regard.
      We have played the rôle of Europe’s naïve village idiot for too long.

    310. yesindyref2 says:

      @Dr Jim
      He probably thinks he’s James Stewart and is talking about The Far Country.

    311. Daisy Walker says:

      @ YESINDYREF2’Yeah, I know I shouldn’t. You’ve got Johnson wanting to bomb Syria and put in ground troops.’

      Craig Murray had very interesting information in relation to R Murdoch purchasing a 5% stake in an energy company. He paid 11 billion for same.

      Israel has granted this company the drilling rights to the Golan Heights which is jolly nice of them since it is still, legally Syrian territory, even if currently occupied. They have also granted the company take over drilling rights, should Syria ever become so destabilised that it needs to be occupied by ‘peace keepers’.

      Sorry memory blank at the moment, but I can’t recall the name of the company. Something Energy.

      Boris is a dancing bear – doing what his pay master is telling him to do.

    312. yesindyref2 says:

      Or The Far Right Country, the remake.

    313. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Caught NawBag BawBag Brewer on Politics Scotland on BBC2 this afternoon making the statement that the PO had ruled the Scots Gov EU Continuity “ILLEGAL”.

      Yep BritNat Broadcaster said the Bill is illegal.

    314. yesindyref2 says:

      @Daisy Walker
      Doesn’t bear thinking about, that and the Atalntic Bridge which is clearly still in operation even if it lost the name. I just want out and leave them all to the corruption and personal money-bought politics.

    315. Daisy Walker says:

      Re Craig Murrays info, it is Genie Energy, and Craig’s essay is called ‘why murdoch pushes for war’. Well worth a read.

      The more one learns, the more you ‘follow the money’, the more logical and horrific are their actions. Only the extent of their wickedness is unbelievable, until that is, the evidence mounts up and it has to be believed.

      Hey ho. Knowledge is power. Keep on keeping on. One bit of decency at a time.

      Cheerie.

    316. Thepnr says:

      @Ottomanboi

      “In the whole history of the world independence per se has never been freely given, it has had to be taken, often by some measure of ‘force’.”

      Do you include the Independence of Canada, Australia and New Zealand in your statement?

    317. Iain mhor says:

      For those wishing to really get their teeth into devolution and constitutional laws, the workings of the civil service etc (or just insomniac) Then the link below may be your one stop shop. Many of the proposals, you will find strangely familiar.

      A couple of years ago: “The Bingham Centre for the Rule of Law undertook a major Review of the implications of devolution as it is developing for the UK as a whole…”
      “The Review concluded that the UK is at a constitutional crossroads and needs major changes to work effectively. The piecemeal development of devolution means that the overall constitutional fabric of the UK has been weakened. The process should start with a new Charter of the Union to provide the framework for a fair and durable settlement between the four nations of the Union”

      The link to the very interesting report and many other engaging articles, including their work on Brexit, can be found here:

      http://bit.ly/2CMn0tR

    318. Dr Jim says:

      @Ottomanboi 3.39pm

      The minute Scotland uses force to achieve Independence sets the timetable for that Independence back at least 20 years because the world would side with the Brits in order to not destabilise economies and accusations of terrorists would be hurled around like scary confetti making Scotlands position very difficult to come back from the same as the other countries you mentioned, whereas it could be achieved peacefully in 2 years by doing very little

      There are many thousands signed up to the route you describe but *Now is not the time* Thank God

    319. call me dave says:

      James Kelly..(aye that one) asks the Lord advocate if he sought any legal advice before reaching his decision? 🙂

      The answer was (He never discloses such information)

    320. yesindyref2 says:

      @Daisy Walker
      The problem is we can’t use it generally or we just appear to be wackoes, and that could (would) get in the way of winning Indy. So I just turn a Nelson eye to it all, knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

    321. Breeks says:

      Thepnr says:
      28 February, 2018 at 2:53 pm
      “Brexit chickens are coming home to roost”

      This is a pretty good article, no very good article from Ian Dunt…

      It’s ok as far as it goes, but the same (if reciprocal) arguments are applicable to Scotland.

      If Scotland was to secure a soft Brexit type arrangement with Europe which was distinct from the UK’s Brexit settlement, then the greater the divergence between EU convergent Scotland and EU divergent England, the greater need there is to have border checks and controls between Scotland and England.

      That notional EU boundary currently pencilled in, in the Irish Sea, would suddenly need to take a sharp detour East, extend inland and run from Stranraer to Berwick, and it wouldn’t be drawn in pencil. That’s going to be a controversial issue for some Scots and BritNats, and a bone of contention and controversy for the rabid media, but I don’t see a way round it.

      The best compromise, to console those who don’t want a Scottish/English border, would be some kind of interim buffer status for Scotland, making Scotland a gateway or some kind of European Freeport, but all that wonder of invention would achieve is to move the border from Gretna /Berwick, and place it mid North Sea, with Border controls either in Scottish departure ports or European arrival destinations.

      If Scotland negotiates a softer Brexit than Westminster, and frankly that’s a big “if”, because nobody can reliably secure a Soft Brexit unless the EU decides to grant it, and you can rest assured the EU will not do that for Scotland with an open southern border and access to EU trade for deregulation crazy England.

      It is misleading to discuss Northern Ireland having a border and not having one. There IS going to be a hard Border, but the debate is whether is scars and divides the landmass and people of Ireland, or whether for peace and expediency, it runs offshore in the Irish Sea.

      It is our own delusion to believe a separate trade arrangement for Scotland will not require very similar customs checks at our own border. I myself don’t have any problem with having a border, but there have been some high level opinions expressed (cough! cough! Nicola) which say there won’t be border checks, but I believe that could technically be wrong.

      I could say more. But it strikes me all may not be what it seems. There may be wheels within wheels at work here.

    322. Capella says:

      James Wolffe statement now available on the Scottish Parliament TV website:

      https://tinyurl.com/y7zebfac

    323. Jack Murphy says:

      TODAY. Scottish Parliament TV.

      THE LORD ADVOCATE ADDRESSES THE CHAMBER ON THE EUROPEAN WITHDRAWAL BILL.

      Statement is now Archived and available here:

      https://tinyurl.com/y7zebfac

    324. Robert Peffers says:

      @apella says: 28 February, 2018 at 1:39 am

      “Adam Tomkins wrote a paper on this but his text is not available, at least in the search results I got.”

      There are reams of reports in Hansard but very hard going to plough through. Much of it total claptrap anyway.

      However, you hit the nail on the head. The Parliament of the Kingdom of England ended abruptly on the last day of April 1707 and no one has been elected to it ever since.

      As it happens the old parliament of Scotland has never been ended but only prorogued. I have many times posted the following link of Winnie Ewing, “Reconvening”, that old parliament and that actually means that Holyrood is the old Scottish parliament continuing. They can, and they will, claim it was just her little joke but to the best of my knowledge no unionist has yet had the courage to challenge the legality of the fact:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiottF-df3Y

      It sure as hell has more substance than the assumption of Westminster as claimed in a Westminster commissioned paper that claims, by the Secretary of State For, (cough!), Scotland, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England, (as), The United Kingdom.

      There is absolutely nothing whatsoever in either the Treaty or either Act of Union that even hints at such a thing.

      There is only a single, rather nebulous, thing that actually links the old parliament of England to the parliament of the then new Parliament of Great Britain – it sat in the same chamber as the old Parliament of England that subsequently burned to the ground but every member in that chamber was a Member of the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

    325. budwiser says:

      You get the feeling that Treeza is setting this up for a hard Brexit on 29th March 2019.

      She will then go ahead and blame everyone from the EU to Scotland for the collapse in the talks.

      The EU will be then made out to be the bad guys again because they will be forced to erect a Hard Border in Ireland.

      Evil corrupt Tories, every damn one of them.

    326. jfngw says:

      The Lord advocate made a telling comment that if the Holyrood bill is outwith the competencies of the Scottish parliament because they currently are not under their legislative control then the Westminster bill must also be outwith these competencies.

      The PO must address this issue and declare why he comes to a different decision to the Welsh and UK parliaments. It would seem to be the Scottish PO that is out of step with the other two parliaments.

    327. jfngw says:

      It looked like the Tories really want to stop this bill in Holyrood and all the questions were questioning the competency. This at the same time as the Tories in Westminster are effectively enacting the same bill. I hope the MSM is going to raise this inconsistency with them, but I suspect this is a vain hope.

    328. Bobp says:

      Robert Louis 1.20pm . Robert you forgot that other booming tory bestowed benevolence on us. FOODBANKS.

    329. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 16:16,

      Likewise I can’t see there not being a hard” border between iScotland (remaining within the EU) and England+Wales (exited), unless the latter remained in the single market. Which is why Nicola has been striving to keep the current UK within that, despite all the disadvantages it brings for an inevitable indyref2.

      But if Mayhem & Co can so earnestly assure everyone under the sun that there can be no hard border between RoI (remaining within the EU) and NI (exited), that wouldn’t seem to be any problem for us either.

      Except that the BritNats oh so very clearly speaketh with forked tongue.

    330. Bobp says:

      Luigi.12.55pm. Ah but Luigi we are the cash cow,golden goose,fatted calf,And I’m gonna p**h maself laughing when the blinkers drop off our southern neighbours, when they realise they were lied to. And that “hey presto ” It’s not the sweaties who were the SCROUNGERS.

    331. Clootie says:

      …is it just me or do others sense a GE coming? 🙂

    332. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      While the current extreme weather may justify blanket school closures it seems that, in general, school closures due to adverse weather are occurring more and more frequently and on many occasions apparently as an overreaction to the conditions.

      During my schooldays from 1946 to 1958 we had plenty of snowy winters but I cannot recall a single occasion when my school was closed because of snow although there were several times when rumours flowed that we were going to get what were referred to as ‘Skating Holidays’ which needless to say were not forthcoming.

      Is the increase in snow related school closures due to Health and Safety Mania with officials worried in case pupils slip on ice or get hit by snowballs followed by pursuit by ambulance chasing lawyers.

    333. galamcennalath says:

      Clootie says:

      …is it just me or do others sense a GE coming?

      Various scenarios are unfolding which could end that way.

      A) if May wants to proceed with Brexit negotiations she has to accept the default position, if all else fails, that NI stays in the single market. The DUP could rebel and not back the Tories.

      B) the Trade Bill gets amended to force customs union. May would find that defeat difficult to survive.

      C) the Brextremists could remove May as leader if they feel she’s going soft.

      May’s days are numbered one way or another. Does this mean her government will fall and an election be called? Or, will the Tories cling on?

      Another general election seems more likely today than it did at the end of 2017, certainly!

      And there’s always the elephant in the room, Scotland …

      D) would the Tories engineer another election if the believed that was the way to save their Union? IMO, yes.

    334. K1 says:

      The snow map looks like a Nessie not a duck. Just sayin’

      Yes GE would be the obvious ‘get out clause’ and provide an opportunity for the mobilisation of those wanting a 2nd EUref…whether it would work though?

    335. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Iain mhor @ 16:08,

      Oh, there have been many analyses over recent years that the UK constitutional arrangement has been bodged too far, and is now a politico-legal morass that has only held together up till now by English arrogance and Scottish passivity.

      And what are the inevitable responses?

      The BritNat Establishment has repeatedly dodged every available opportunity of taking the necessary fundamental review and acting resolutely upon it, and instead, with great ill will, has led everyone even deeper into the morass. To add insult to injury, it has engaged in a deliberate campaign of disparagement of the legitimate Scottish demand for further autonomy, and has now even launched into a transparent attempt to reverse some of what has previously been (reluctantly) conceded, to the point where it may arguably be breaking the Treaty of Union.

      The UK Union is disintegrating from the stresses imposed upon it by the careless and ignorant actions of the Union’s most aggressive advocates.

      The only alternative response, and one that is not to be gained from browsing through reams of bien-pensant past academic analysis, but is staringly obvious to any neutral reasonably-sentient being: Scotland needs to get out of this completely un-fixable guddle of a UK state and start again afresh.

    336. galamcennalath says:

      gus1940 says:

      I cannot recall a single occasion when my school was closed because of snow

      In my days, 60s, I don’t remember any closures either. I remember failed heating. I remember coal shortages, and no heating. But never a closure.

      Winter 62-63 was a killer. (Literally) I lived in the country and couldn’t get to school because of metre deep drifts some days. But no closures that winter.

      So, yes, what’s it all about? Not worse weather. I don’t believe that. Must be official risk aversion.

    337. Dr Jim says:

      @gus1940

      It was the scary queue for the jags when we all got sick wae
      Measles Chicken Pox Scarlett Fever Polio Mumps

      Funnily enough I don’t remember ever being off school wae a cold, maybe it was the bread poultices wae brown paper and vinegar that kept us well, or the weekly doses of Castor oil and Malt wae a big spoon

      Up until we got rich and we could get Syrup of Figs

      Maaan! I really loved that stuff

    338. stewartb says:

      Re- Ian Blackford’s question at PMQs today about the PM’s view regarding the equality of the four nations of the UK.

      Having watched the exchange, I can’t say it had very much of an impact for me. Candidly, with this PM, her answer to Blackford’s question was no more evasive or revealing than many of her answers at PMQs.

      As to Blackford’s choice of question, I’d have been more interested in him asking about the equality of the kingdoms of Scotland and England in this UK! It would be good to have this written into Hansard along with the PM’s response.

      Yes, the four nations are ‘equal’ in the eyes of the European and world football authorities and as ‘home nations’ in the Commonwealth Games! But they are not ‘equal’ either in terms of the UK constitution as practiced or even in the extent of devolved powers. And they are not ‘equal’ as viewed by the EU in the context of Brexit – NI is accorded a special status due to the Good Friday Agreement.

      If Mr Blackford does want to ask a question on another occasion specifically about the ‘four nations’ of the UK, perhaps he could ask the PM to reconcile her references to the different ‘nations’ in the UK and her repeated reference to a ‘one nation’ UK.

    339. Robert Peffers says:

      @sassenach says: 28 February, 2018 at 8:11 am

      “Bii not Ben says, at 10-51pm
      ” i have a house full of books that i am making my way through one by one, ””

      Here is a little true story from the far off days I was in primary school getting ready for the quallie.

      We had a wee quiet girl in our class who had a very rare and strange gift. She had what is called, “A photographic memory”.

      This was during WWII and one day that wee quiet girl did not turn up for class and we were told she had gone away to live with her aunt in England. I knew her family and later went to enquire after the wee lassie. Her mother was in a terrible state and told me through her tears that the girl had gone to a government department.

      Very much later, well after WWII, I found out she had been taken to Bletchley Park because of her photographic memory.

      Thing was I knew she was really thick and what seemed to be intelligence was memory without intelligence. She could pick up a book and flick through the pages one at a time and then write down any part of the entire book at will. Thing is she didn’t have a clue about what she had read.

      There is no point in simply reading books – you need to comprehend what you read and it helps if you can analyse it too.

    340. gus1940 says:

      According to the BBC Scotland Web Site it has been announced that due to the weather conditions The Glasgow Subway is being closed.

      Given that the whole system is underground am I alone in being puzzled by this?

    341. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      galamcennalath @ 17:10,

      The most obvious way for UKGov to scupper IR2 would be to declare a firm intent to stay within SM+CU. That would largely undermine the SG mandate. And Nicola has given them that opportunity – even encouraged it.

      Yet they are evidently hell-bent on doing no such thing. They are obsessed with a (hidden) desperation to keep the Tory party hanging together, and are blinded by their own English exceptionalism.

      Except this time they can’t, as in the past, cheerfully escape the separate consequences for Scotland and for Ireland. That is the corner they have painted themselves into, and there is no escape.

      The Irish Government in particular has shown the true meaning of Archimedes’ old saying: “Give me a fulcrum for my lever and I can move the world.”

      The EU provides that necessary fulcrum.

    342. galamcennalath says:

      Dr Jim says

      caster oil …. syrup of figs

      I had a great aunt who insisted on dishing out the Dr Gregory’s Powder she swore by. Basically dried ground rhubarb I believe 🙁

    343. Legerwood says:

      galamcennalath says:

      28 February, 2018 at 5:17 pm

      gus1940 says:

      I cannot recall a single occasion when my school was closed because of snow

      In my days, 60s, I don’t remember any closures either. I remember failed heating. I remember coal shortages, and no heating. But never a closure.

      Winter 62-63 was a killer. (Literally) I lived in the country and couldn’t get to school because of metre deep drifts some days. But no closures that winter.

      So, yes, what’s it all about? Not worse weather. I don’t believe that. Must be official risk aversion.””
      ………

      Like you I never remember my school being closed because of bad weather even during the bad winter of 1962-63.

      But in those days more people, including teachers, lived and worked locally so could get to their work by Shank’s pony if all else failed. There was not the degree of commuting whether by car or public transport that you see now. So any disruption on the roads or railways has a much greater impact than in the past.

      So it may not be just greater risk aversion than in the past but the huge increase in commuting over greater distances that determines the extent of the disruption caused by snow.

      Dr Jim @ 5.18pm

      Was Syrup of Figs not for constipation? But maybe, like aspirin, it was good for other things as well. I hated it but I also got some sort of emulsion drink as well every day during the winter.

    344. Glamaig says:

      Just listened to Radio Shortbread description of the events in the Scottish Parliament re Withdrawal Bill this afternoon. Clever technique – string a number of statements together, none of which are technically untrue, but the overall impression given is misleading.

    345. Capella says:

      Watching Adam Tomkins’ convoluted trip-him-up questions to James Wolff, it looked to me as though the PO may have relied on Tomkins’ opinion for his challenge on competence. There did seem to be a certain knowingness between the two.

      https://tinyurl.com/y7zebfac

    346. Legerwood says:

      Re Lord Advocate’s statement.

      I have just watched the clip posted by someone above. When Mr Findlay sat down after asking his multiple questions, did anyone notice what he was mouthing as the Lord Advocate finished answering? It did not look very complimentary.

      I had the feeling that the string of questions he asked was designed to elicit the Nick Robinson response: ‘he [the Lord Advocate] did not answer the question. And indeed Mr Findlay raising a point of order at the end about the LA not answering a question seems to suggest that that was his aim all along – to claim that the LA was avoiding answering.

    347. heedtracker says:

      stewartb says:
      28 February, 2018 at 5:21 pm
      Re- Ian Blackford’s question at PMQs today about the PM’s view regarding the equality of the four nations of the UK.

      I listen to BBC r4 all day sometimes but they never mention the SNP today at all, not a UKOK beeb gimp peep. But that’s normal from our imperial master baiters.

      Even so, it is a creepy airbrushing away of the SNP by beeb gimps but their BBC r4 Today show today had a huge thing about Scotland this morn, highly unusual, with toryboy of the beeb gimp millennium john humphrys going from Scottish city to Scottish city, really focusing on…wait for it, wait for it, the BBC’s Scottish region weather.

      Whatever you say about UKOK hackdom, especially the beeb gimp network, they are all really fascinated by their Scotland regions weather!!!

      “Met Office issues red weather warning as snow disrupts Britain – live updates
      Hundreds of schools are still closed as Met Office issues red warning for central of Scotland

      Same with stinky olde The Graun too, shock.

    348. Robert Peffers says:

      Liz g says:28 February, 2018 at 9:29 am:

      “Aw Robert yer wee (butterfly spaniel)… I am so sorry….
      One of my earliest memories of Wing’s is you telling us of you being out and about, in the lead up to Indy Ref 1,doing what we all need to be doing,talking to people directly and you always included a mention of her!”

      Aye! Liz g. That we dog helped convert many to the YES cause. She was very beautiful, exceptionally friendly to everyone, (I trained her as a Therapet), and we visited homes, hospitals and hospices.

      I couldn’t walk her down a street without her welcoming people and what with my Yes badges and what not the conversation always got round to politics. I’ve had dogs all my life but that one was one of two outstandingly intelligent wee dogs.

      She and I were only apart twice since a got her as a five week old, weaned and housetrained pup. Once when I had a day in Edinburgh Royal getting two stents fitted for angina, (and she spent that day in the day ward office and being taken to do her befriending job in the Royals wards by the office staff.

      The other occasion was when she went in for a day to be neutered. The rest of her 11 years plus of life we were never apart night or day.

      Her many friends are going to miss her. It was a great pleasure to see the faces light up as someone was saying, “Here’s ma wee pal commin to see me”, as we went along a street. Mind you it wisna me they were pleased tae see.

      One of her favourite tricks, (that she taught herself), was to sit in the basket on my disability scooter and when she saw someone she wanted to befriend she sat up as if begging but instead of both paws held at her chest she waved to the person with one paw. No one could resist her welcome. She was so obviously anxious to befriend everyone.

    349. Capella says:

      @ Legerwood – Snap! we both think there was an element of let’s-trip-up-the-LA. But they have chosen the wrong target IMO.
      I heard James Wolff answer that the decision on the “emergency” nature of the Bill was a matter for the politicians to decide. At least I think I did.

      Once again the question arises. Who am I to believe? Neil Findlay or the evidence of my own lying ears?

    350. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Legerwood @ 17:42,

      Anybody know a good lip-reader? =grin=

      Though I doubt that we would glean too much enlightenment anyway from someone who seems to be the very embodiment of “Bitter Together”. (In a close toss-up between him and Magrit Curran.)

    351. Proud Cybernat says:

      @Gus

      Glasgow Underground staff have to get home somehow – many buses not running either.

    352. Craig P says:

      >>galamcennalath says:
      27 February, 2018 at 9:58 pm
      Came across this excellent ‘must read’ article from almost a year ago ….

      What an excellent article in the Irish Times. It’s a disgrace that the Scottish press has no place for these views. Their readers might be in danger of learning something.

    353. HandandShrimp says:

      Has Ken Macintosh impaled himself on his SiU membership card and taken one for the team? Carwyn Jones must be looking at him and thinking WTF?

      A Labour man giving succour to UKIP voters? Who would have thought it a few years ago? The BBC HYS has the usual SiU Brexit types declaring that it stands to reason that a presiding officer with no legal experience and in the job 5 minutes must know better than the Lord Advocate about legal matters (the same people that would cheerfully burn Bercow at the stake).

    354. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says:28 February, 2018 at 12:11 pm:

      “Yae really get a sense now that the BREXIT shit really has just hit the fan big style and is busily redecorating the all the walls and furniture at a rate of knots.”

      You may remember, Proud Cybernat, that I posted several times when Wingers were saying the SG weren’t doing anything that when it happens it would come suddenly and without warning – but I was wrong about the, “Without Warning”, bit as there was indeed warnings but few, including the Yoons, seemed to hear them.

    355. Iain mhor says:

      @Robert J Sutherland 5:14pm

      I think your last paragraph pretty much encapsulates the easence of the situation.
      Much of the report (as you say there have been many) attempts to first show how things are, their failings and attempts to build a framework of how a devolved United Kingdom should work. It has much to be commended if that is anyone’s position – not mine needless to say.
      However, the takeaway from this and the others, is simply that there us no appetite or solid cross party UK wide backing for it, or a movement towards it. Piecemeal perhaps (yaaay abolish Barnett, Evel! Err keep the Royal prerogative though and maybe weaken devolved powers eh?) It cannot be cherry picked like that, it’s all or nothing.
      So it will never happen. The old guard will tear themselves to pieces before they will contemplate reform and we’re watching it happen.

      As you say, the sane solution is to take Occam’s razor to the problem and simply leave and start again. A child could give the solution, but we know all this.
      One thing reading such didactic studies does give us though, is the ability to “know thine enemy” so they do have a value. Knowledge is power.

    356. Hamish100 says:

      The Lord Advocate in summary to McIntosh– I know more about the law than you. Liked the wee dig that the PO in Wales takes the same view other than McIntosh and tories. Davidson Hiding a few rows back and didn’t even thank her old bbc colleague. Has she lost her voice.

      Can McIntosh be subject to a vote of no confidence?

    357. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      HandandShrimp @ 18:35:

      A Labour man giving succour to UKIP voters? Who would have thought it a few years ago?

      Well, indeed. But that’s how it’s been since the EURef. Corbyn-led BritLab not knowingly outbid by xenophobic rightists. ‘Cos of furriners, innit?

      Those proud self-declared “internationalists”.

      (Not the only piece of hypocrisy perpetrated by the Great Messiah, though.)

      But always a helping hand given by the ever-faithful establishment media. It’s Corby who is leading the effort to minimise the ghastliness of Brexit, don’t y’know. (We’ve become the new media taboo: whatever you do, don’t mention the SG or SNP.)

    358. Legerwood says:

      Capella @ 5.55 pm

      Believe your ears on the response from LA ’emergency’ nature of the Bill being a matter for the Parliament because I heard him say the same thing.

      I think the P.O. said much the same when Mr Findlay brought up his point of order at the end.

    359. gus1940 says:

      I have just been having a look at the on-line Torygraph.

      Judging by the reported hysterical rantings of our favourite swivel-eyed looney Brexit politicians and the equally hysterical rantings of the rag’s in-house swivel-eyed looneys it would appear that they are starting to realise that their campaign is slipping away and that at the end of the day we shall Remain.

      I have yet to look at the Daily Heil web site as they continue with their disgusting campaign of Racism and xenophobia..

    360. Hamish100 says:

      Point of order to Presiding Officer. Did you meet with any tories inc Tomkins prior to your attempt to shaft Scotland?

    361. Robert Peffers says:

      @Luigi says: 28 February, 2018 at 12:55 pm:

      “No disrespect to the other devolved countries, but are we the biggest current threat to their in these troubled times?”

      Of course we are, Luigi.

      Here’s why – the legal fact is that the United Kingdom is a bipartite union of kingdoms it is not a quadratic union of countries and furthermore Wales is an English Principality and its prince is obviously the Prince of Wales who is always the first born son of the Queen of England.

      I’ll now bore you with the history. The English King pledged that the next Prince of Wales would be a born in Wales prince – Then sent his heavily pregnant queen to Cardiff for the birth so that the next Prince of Wales was the English Kings son born in Wales.

      As for Ireland, the Holy Roman Se was not happy the way the Celtic Christian Church of Ireland was going and so appointed the English monarch as Lord of Ireland. Then the Lord of Ireland forced the Parliament of Ireland to pass the Crown of Ireland Act that placed the Irish Crown of the King of England’s head.

      So England has legal claim on both Wales and what remains of Ireland in the United Kingdom but their only actual partner kingdom is legally the equally sovereign Kingdom of Scotland.

      There are only two kingdom with signatures on the Treaty of Union and neither Wales or Ireland needed to sign the Treaty of Union.

      Thus there are only two legal parts of the United Kingdom it thus ends if Scotland leaves but doesn’t if either Wales or N.I. leaves.

    362. Legerwood says:

      gus1940 says:
      28 February, 2018 at 5:33 pm
      According to the BBC Scotland Web Site it has been announced that due to the weather conditions The Glasgow Subway is being closed.

      Given that the whole system is underground am I alone in being puzzled by this?””
      ………

      The people who work on the Underground have to get home. Also because of the wind the snow may be getting blown into the stations. Might not get down onto the track but likely to make the entrance halls dangerous underfoot.

    363. yesindyref2 says:

      Ohmigud, a threat from the Herald:

      “THOSE WERE THE DAYS1957: Rock around the clock – but please stay seated during the show”

      Oh no, not around the clock!

    364. Tinto Chiel says:

      The only good thing about having Ken Macintosh as PO is that he can’t vote with BLiS______d in our parliament.

      He’s a busted flush and has lost all credibility. I don’t know who exactly is pulling his strings but it ain’t Geppetto.

      Let him stew and embarrass himself further. My only concern is that in allowing the opposition’s desk banging and baiting of the FM, he demeans our parliament, but that’s obviously counter-productive for his reputation.

      Mike Russell must have enjoyed saying, in effect, “Thanks Ken, but we can ignore you.”

    365. gus1940 says:

      Good old Reporting SNPbad running true to form with today’s PMQ report.

      While they showed T. May’s answer to Ian Blackford we weren’t shown his question which asked if she still thought that The UK was a partnership of equals.

      What a disgraceful bnunch of unionist proagandists.

    366. ronnie anderson says:

      @ hamish 100 re McIntosh the Lord Advocate gave him a free pass today , when he’s sitting as PO it’s one vote that Slab don’t have lol

    367. Stravaiger says:

      Just joining some dots in light of the handy constitutional info above (thanks folks). Now, please tell me if I’m wrong, but… the SG has the right not to give consent to the Brexit bill, and that is backed up by the mandate from the (sovereign) Scottish people, who voted 62% remain. Any attempt to override or ignore the lack of consent would be unconstitutional and in breach of the Acts of Union?

    368. Still Positive says:

      Legerwood @ 5.36

      You are, of course, correct. I remember several of my teachers walking to school as normal and most lived locally.

      Up to 2003 I worked in the east end of Glasgow and most of us lived a fair distance away.

      One of the Art teachers live in Torrance which on a normal day didn’t take long. But she was likely to be snowed in in a wee village.

      Also, the HT does not know in advance which teachers will manage to get in and it would be unfair to parents to have to phone them later to say the pupils were being sent home.

      Also remember nowadays both parents usually work so it is a simpler solution to close the schools and give advance notice so parent/s can work from home if they can.

    369. Jock McDonnell says:

      Re the discussion & links about sovereignty above.
      I’ve said before on here that Parliamentary sovereignty is merely an assertion.
      I first understood that when I read the works of Ian Hamilton many years ago.
      Glad to read that this is possibly even true in England – which when you consider the point of elections – has to be the case really.
      Indeed sovereignty is always only asserted – true power cannot be given, it must be taken.
      No power is ever written in stone, Westminster only exercises what power we allow it.

      Although I do wish somebody on our team would point that out to toodloo-the-noo when he asserts that Westminster is sovereign – ask him to justify it.

    370. Cactus says:

      Evening, I would like to propose and immediately move the motion that tomorrow be known as a Scottish holiday… try that on for a bit of feel good factor for ye hehe 🙂

      After all, many will choose to remain at ‘home’ tomorrow for many reasons and it looks like tomorrow is indeed gonna be another humongous second snow day.

      Every 1st of March should be a national holiday in Scotland.

      Get oot yer sledge and get stuck intae it.

      The timing is sweet, get it on aow.

      Spend your free time wisely.

      Till the morn.

    371. Cactus says:

      Mike’s Tubular Bells on shortbread station ra now.

      Heard them talkin’ aboot it b4, who would have thought eh?

      Let’s see if they interrupt it before the end of the tune…

      Must be the weather or summin’.

    372. Ian Foulds says:

      A lot of reading on all your interesting contributions.

      One thing that strikes me is our (lack of) knowledge, in regard to Reserved matters whether of an Independent or Yoon bent.

      Is this not one of the weak points we and the Scottish Government need to be shouting from the rooftops?

      Hope this is not too off topic. Apologies if considered so.

      Ian

    373. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 28 February, 2018 at 7:09 pm:

      “Given that the whole system is underground am I alone in being puzzled by this?”

      More than likely the problem is that the would be passengers have to get to a station to get on the transport and when they get to a destination station have to get to their final destination and if they cannot get to their destination where will they end up? If it gets as cold as they say it will there could be folks freezing to death around station entrances.

    374. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I first started buying stuff from Maplin in the 70s. It was, more or less, a purely mail order outfit.

      They then expanded into on-street shops (I have visited Great Western Road in Glasgow and the outlet in Dundee over the years), when that seemed the way forward.

      Now people are going back to “mail order” (ie online shopping), Maplin seem to have lost the knack.

      What’s gone wrong?

    375. frogesque says:

      @Cactus 8.05

      Like you thinking pilgrim. Mad as a March hare holiday.

      Fell cauld oot there, stay safe!

    376. Meg merrilees says:

      This travel report on the BBC website tonight contained the following paragraph:

      No trains will run on the West Coast Main Line between Scotland and England until at least lunchtime on Thursday, and the Forth Road Bridge has been closed to all traffic, with vehicles being diverted to the Queensferry Crossing.

      Loud cheer for the Scottish Government and SNP without whom there would have been chaos tonight!!!

    377. Sinky says:

      Ian Faulds

      Section 5 of Scotland Act outlines the reserved powers everything else is competent for Scottish Parliament.

      See here (plus Part 2)

      https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/46/schedule/5/part/I

    378. One_Scot says:

      Lol, assessing the latest state of play regarding the Brexit farce, the SNP don’t really have to do anything, all they need do is watch the car crash and then whenever they see fit, Nicola will swagger over, do the ‘May power stance’, only better, and say, ‘anyone fancy joining me, I’m about to throw a party of a lifetime, and it’s gonna last forever’.

      Cue stampede.

    379. Daisy Walker says:

      Game Changer – potentially!

      I’ve had another look at John Majors speech – if you look up Kirsty Hughes Twitter account (even if you don’t have twitter) you can see it and hear it there. The Guardian hosted it.

      He’s the British Nationalist version of the clunking fist. He’s been brought in to calm the fears of middle England. He talks like a human, not a tory (don’t think its more than skin deep). He is – electable! Much as I detest Tory policy and distrust the guy – he is speaking like a statesman. The grey man of politics is back, ready to steady the ship and re-direct it. And he’s clearly got a job to do – vote down Brexshit in the house of commons, ensure some form of CU and SM, take all the wind out of IndyRef2.

      Get ready for much on the ‘internal UK Market’ we are going to hear an awful lot about it, it is the only way WM gets to be the ‘safe pair of hands’.

      May. Boris and co, yir tea’s oot.

    380. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “Now before I shuffle of to bed can I cite an interesting article I’m only just starting to attempt to get to grips with but which doesn’t seem to be too steeped in legalese for most lay persons to understand.”

      “lay persons”?

      What professional qualification do you have?

      All you do is google stuff and post it here.

      I am sure “lay persons” can manage to do that themselves.

    381. Robert Peffers says:

      @Stravaiger says: 28 February, 2018 at 7:32 pm:

      ” … Any attempt to override or ignore the lack of consent would be unconstitutional and in breach of the Acts of Union?”

      True enough, Stravaiger, but when did being unconstitutional or beaching the terms of the union bother them?

      Little point of order BTW:, (not that it really matters), but while the two respective Acts of Union were passed by the two respective kingdom’s governments they were the second last acts of each independent kingdom’s parliaments before each shut up shop. They are thus really irrelevant today. It is breaches of the Treaty of Union itself that matter.

      In any case both acts of union are almost word for word of the text if the Treaty and it is the treaty that is the agreed deal between the two kingdoms.

      I’ll put that another way – Each act of union is relevant only to the parliament that passed it and those parliament were ending but the agreement of the treaty is the actual done deal.

      In fact Westminster began ignoring the treaty even before the ink was dry and the wax seals hardened and they have been ignoring them every sitting ever since.

      But you are correct – now we have a Scottish government that is just about backed by around 50% of the voters who are standing up for Scotland and at long last calling Westminster’s bluff.

      Just lets hope they are not too quick in doing so. We need the voters behind us if we are to break free.

    382. heedtracker says:

      May. Boris and co, yir tea’s oot.

      If only. England wants out of the EU asap. They hate it with real passion. If either red or blue tory party tries to block Brexit, they wont be in office for a long time.

      Just as it seems impossible for yoon culture in Scotland to believe in nation state Scotland, England’s at the other end of that great British cringe spectrum. They truly believe in rule Britannia 2.0.

      Only thingee that shakes that extraordinary English national self belief? losing control of Scotland.

      Otherwise, England is never going to stay in the EU, no matter what Lord Major says.

    383. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      Good find.

    384. Meg merrilees says:

      Re Snow in days gone by:
      School was never shut. Even during the long bus strike, late sixties, we walked 3 miles each way, back and forward to school every day.

      I remember the winter of 62/63, The snow ploughs had to shift so much snow that it was piled more than 6 feet high at the side of the road. In order to cross over, they had cut doorways at suitable places and I can remember standing, aged 5, holding my dad’s hand waiting to cross over.
      I looked up at him to get the signal to cross and I realised that the ‘snow doorframe’ was about a foot higher than the top of his head. I can see it clearly now.

      The snow piles lasted well into March/April and we used to walk to school on the tops of the snowdrifts which regularly collapsed allowing all the snow to come over the tops of our wellies – ugh!

      Another sign that there had been snow was the sound of men shovelling it off the pavements first thing in the morning, Doesn’t happen now.

    385. Rock says:

      Legerwood,

      “The statement by Lord Cooper on the idea of sovereignty made during that case was an Obiter dictum. As such it is not a legal ruling. It was not essential to the decision made in that case and as such has no binding authority.”

      The pretendy “sovereignty” of the Scots is not worth the paper it was written on.

      The “plebs” of Scotland have never been “sovereign” and never will be, until an independent Scotland with a written constitution defines their rights.

    386. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Stravaiger @ 19:32,

      I’m no lawyer, let alone a constitutional one, but it seems to me that the re-convening of the Scottish Parliament under the terms of the time caused a fundamental change to the unwritten constitution of the UK, in that it returned power over certain aspects of internal affairs, the very “local control” (to coin a phrase) which was guaranteed by the 1707 Treaty of Union.

      It can be argued that when Westminster was the only legislative assembly and London the only location of government, formal Scottish sovereignty could only be reflected in those (somewhat) representative places, but when there finally was a Parliament and Government to hold it again, that it must necessarily return home in those areas guaranteed by treaty.

      UKGov’s retrograde attempt to use Brexit to claw back these powers for itself is then a clear breach of the Treaty, not least within the narrow scope of the constitutional agreement reached in 1997 that “all matters not specifically reserved are devolved”.

      May’s absurd new terminology of a “UK Common Market” is a brazen attempt to obscure such matters, and trample all over our treaty-guaranteed rights.

      This isn’t going to end well. The Tories are over-playing a very weak hand, aided and abetted by BritLab, and their bluff is about to run out.

      Even ex-PM John Major can see it, so it’s well time for all those PSB’s to wake up!

    387. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Rock @ 20:48,

      Aye right.

      Yawn.

    388. heedtracker says:

      The “plebs” of Scotland have never been “sovereign” and never will be, until an independent Scotland with a written constitution defines their rights

      So Rock, why can Scots vote to end this freakin union then?

      Presumably the English can too.

      But Yorkshiremen and women cant, can they.

      Grow up Rock.

      Read and digest some more of the great Rabbie Peffers comments. At the very least you’ll get some good old learnedness n shit.

    389. Rock says:

      Thepnr,

      “Do you include the Independence of Canada, Australia and New Zealand in your statement?”

      Canada, Australia and New Zealand are nothing more than extensions of the British Empire.

      The native populations were decimated by the good British stock which took over.

      For your information, all three are against an independent Scotland.

    390. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A regular evening contributor on here utters some p!$h, iye?
      Hope you don’t take that as me being a “bully”.

    391. Rock says:

      Rock (28th June 2017 – “Slight reprise”):

      “The UK will have a “snap” Brexit while we are caught napping with no legislation in place for an independence referendum.”

    392. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      28 February, 2018 at 8:46 pm
      @Heed
      Good find

      It is interesting to consider how the Scottish professions are going this time.

      Yesterday or Monday morn on BBC r4 vote tory Today show, they had on two medics to explain just how shite the NHS is, as beeb gimp usual.

      One was a Scot and she was extremely encouraged, encouraging and very pro Scots gov, on how Scots gov are really working very hard with Scottish medics to improve aspects of the NHS.

      The r4 beeb ligger was pretty stunned by this outburst of not SNP out explanation, for the changes and improvements in Scottish health but recovered in time to cut off the bit where SNP could be mentioned.

      Think its in this one from Monday

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09smgqc

      Can’t mind the name of the medic, but if you’re out there, Well Said Doc!

    393. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Iain mhor @ 18:58,

      The unfortunate thing from a Unionist point of view is that they could have done something about it, even as late as Smith, if only they had had the courage of their own claimed convictions. It wasn’t as if they lacked plenty of encouragement or advice, as I guess you very well know.

      I for one never took it as gospel that devolution would ultimately spell the end of the Union, but they all apparently did. The more ultra-Unionist they were (Tam Dalyell springs immediately to mind), the more antagonistic to devolution they were. But even the more moderate ones were only prepared to offer the most minimal “concessions” (as they saw it) that they thought they could get away with.

      It was that very underselling and undermining of devolution, a total failure to grasp ample opportunities to breathe new life into an increasingly-doddering Union, amplified up to 11 by the sheer careless insanity of Brexit, which has now turned the UK into a decayed corpse.

      We have all noticed how the last refuge of the BritNat is always to try to blame someone else, but when the definitive history is written, it is the Unionists who will undoubtedly get the blame for the loss of their precious Union. Through their own rigidity, intransigence and (most of all) lack of belief.

    394. frogesque says:

      Aye Richt!

    395. Rock says:

      heedtracker,

      “So Rock, why can Scots vote to end this freakin union then?”

      We could, once in a 1000 years, because that nice Mr Cameron allowed us to.

      There is ZERO chance that Saint Theresa will allow us to hold an independence referendum before Brexit has been completed.

      There is a 1% chance that establishment lawyer Nicola will dare defy her and hold an illegal referendum.

      Why would she and the rest of the SNP leadership want to go into exile in Belgium when they are doing fine here and at Westminster?

      Before there is a flood of posters claiming that Scotland can hold an independence referendum whenever it wants to, the fact is that it has never yet done so without Westminster’s approval.

      You can only prove me wrong if and when it does.

    396. call me dave says:

      Breaking News: The National.

      The Beast from the east has derailed tomorrow’s Tory conference in Aberdeen.

      TENS of Scottish Conservatives were due to gather in the north east for a weekend of debating, drinking and David Mundell.

      Hark The Herald:

      THE Scottish Conservatives have been forced to delay the start of their spring conference because of the extreme weather.

      The party had been due to meet in Aberdeen from Thursday evening to Saturday afternoon.

      The event includes speeches by Scots leader Ruth Davidson and the Prime Minister.

      At noon on Wednesday, the party warned delegates the event could be cancelled because of the heavy snow across most of the country.

      Lord McInnes, the director of the party in Scotland, said there would be an update on the “rapidly changing situation” at 10am on Thursday.

      However shortly before 4pm the plan changed, and the party announced the start of the conference had been pushed back to 1230 on Friday.
      ———————————————————–

      Hmm? what was that film…. The lie that came in from the cold!

    397. twathater says:

      FFS jist watchin politics shortbreed Brewer is actually leading the DUMB unionists , who the fuck does he think he is , he lies that we are all being kept in the dark , that doughnut kelly agreeing with him ( we’re no getting telt anything ) Ross Greer exposed his lies , I am fecking ragin what are we payin kelly , fraser and the rest of these dumb ar*eholes for , they are TRActors TO SCOTLAND and Scots .

      I’ve never seen so much CRINGE and COWARDICE on show as was presented by these unionist politicians , they would betray Scotland and us Scots in a heartbeat . Mumbles as usual waffling about how the SG are doing it wrong , when asked by brewer 3 times how would you do it then , he continues to stick to SG doing it wrong shyst

      I am embarrassed when I think that people in other countries see the likes of kelly and fraser and envisage that they are the type of people that we Scots ELECT to represent us in our parliament , as CALIMERO would say ( what an injustice )

    398. yesindyref2 says:

      @Rock says: @Rock says: @Rock says: @Rock says: @Rock says: @Rock says: @Rock says:

      “Lay Lady Lay”

      Good choice.

    399. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE” the “Lay Lady Lay” contributor.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJumt6bo-TY

    400. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      The thing is the media genuinely believe Scotland’s shite, they’ve read or heard their own stuff so often, the lie has become the fact in their own minds. I see the same thing on UKDJ, they general posters are so taken in by what they read or hear they post it themselves as though it’s fact, and there’s a NO voter has had to post a fair, reasonable and accurate correction to their fantasy figures, a few times. Means I have to be fair as well mind, but then that’s all getting us closer together against the common enemy misinformation.

      It’s truly beautiful, the modern wonder of media fairness. Long may it continue – to piss off the undecideds and the NOes 🙂

    401. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rock says: 28 February, 2018 at 8:40 pm:

      First, thanks to the, “Alert Reader”, who pointed this hilarious effort out to me. It was by the night shift unionist troll, Rock. I’ll not mention your name in case you get involved in a Rock swipe. I’d have missed the good laugh without your info.

      Rock highlights the following from me:-

      “Now before I shuffle of to bed can I cite an interesting article I’m only just starting to attempt to get to grips with but which doesn’t seem to be too steeped in legalese for most lay persons to understand.”

      And Rock replies thus:-
      ——-
      “lay persons”?
      What professional qualification do you have?
      All you do is google stuff and post it here.
      I am sure “lay persons” can manage to do that themselves.

      ——–

      Does the idiot not comprehend the reason I’m saying that lay persons, (i.e. non-legal eagles), will be able, like me, to understand what is being said in non-legal language is because I’m not making any claim to be a legal person. Quite the opposite, and I think that others in the same boat will also understand it.

      Rock though is so mentally fixated at lashing out at anything he perceives as anti-Rock, and against those who pull his puppet strings, that he is blind to what I’m saying and thinks he sees a chance to take a swipe at me.

      What an absolute idiotic zoomer is Rock. Daft as the proverbial brush. But it did make me laugh and I could fine do with a laugh ATM.

    402. Indy2 says:

      Just signed in and who is all over the comments?

      Heedy
      Peffers
      Rock
      YesIndyref2

      Just signed out again,

      Cheerio !!!

    403. call me dave says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Aye Mr Peffers we caught your drift the night it was said.
      No problems!

      Take care. 🙂

      PS:
      Not sure but I think the Lord Advocate Wolffe must have had the Q’s a wee while before hand as he had a couple of notes he referred to briefly as he answered Prof Tompkin’s question.

      If not he has a bloody good memory because it sure was a very convoluted one. Shortbread called it a ‘technical’ question.

    404. Bob Mack says:

      I like to think of Rock as a throbbing corn on my foot which talks to me. Painful and amusing at the same time.

      By the way Rock, some lawyer must have really done a number on you.Your dislike is bordering on pathological

    405. heedtracker says:

      Why would she and the rest of the SNP leadership want to go into exile in Belgium when they are doing fine here and at Westminster

      If indyref1 showed anything, referendums for Scotland ending this union with England are very good for SNP voting numbers. Look at the massive jump in SNP membership, which does seem to be holding up too.

      You’re beating against the tide of Scottish history Rock, endlessly beating away with the same oar too.

      Scots are sovereign, otherwise, we’d be little historic footnotes in the anus of teamGB, not anals.

      Although the whole of UKOK hackdom is desperately trying to do that, UKOK wise.

    406. Robert Peffers says:

      @Indy2 says: 28 February, 2018 at 9:55 pm:

      “Just signed in and who is all over the comments?
      Heedy
      Peffers
      Rock
      YesIndyref2
      Just signed out again,
      Cheerio !!!

      Mind the muckle Wings door disna hit yer fat earse iz ye gan.

    407. Robert Peffers says:

      @Indy2 says: 28 February, 2018 at 9:55 pm:

      Just signed in and who is all over the comments?
      Heedy
      Peffers
      Rock
      YesIndyref2
      Just signed out again,
      Cheerio !!!

      Which ane o ye twa zoomers is the richt Rock?

    408. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “@Rock says: 28 February, 2018 at 8:40 pm:

      First, thanks to the, “Alert Reader”, who pointed this hilarious effort out to me. It was by the night shift unionist troll, Rock. I’ll not mention your name in case you get involved in a Rock swipe. I’d have missed the good laugh without your info.

      Rock highlights the following from me:-

      “Now before I shuffle of to bed can I cite an interesting article I’m only just starting to attempt to get to grips with but which doesn’t seem to be too steeped in legalese for most lay persons to understand.”

      And Rock replies thus:-
      ——-
      “lay persons”?
      What professional qualification do you have?
      All you do is google stuff and post it here.
      I am sure “lay persons” can manage to do that themselves.

      ——–

      Does the idiot not comprehend the reason I’m saying that lay persons, (i.e. non-legal eagles), will be able, like me, to understand what is being said in non-legal language is because I’m not making any claim to be a legal person. Quite the opposite, and I think that others in the same boat will also understand it.

      Rock though is so mentally fixated at lashing out at anything he perceives as anti-Rock, and against those who pull his puppet strings, that he is blind to what I’m saying and thinks he sees a chance to take a swipe at me.

      What an absolute idiotic zoomer is Rock. Daft as the proverbial brush. But it did make me laugh and I could fine do with a laugh ATM.”

      My sincere condolences on the passing away of your beloved dog. It is understandable that you will not be your usual bullying self until the next independence referendum.

      And so sorry for hurting your feelings during these difficult times.

      But if you do read my posts, why deny it?

    409. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “@Indy2 says: 28 February, 2018 at 9:55 pm:

      Just signed in and who is all over the comments?
      Heedy
      Peffers
      Rock
      YesIndyref2
      Just signed out again,
      Cheerio !!!

      Which ane o ye twa zoomers is the richt Rock?”

      And you read Indy2’s posts as well, since you don’t quote anonymous sources which bring them to your attention.

      Polite note to “Indy2”, attack me as much as you want, but please don’t associate me with the likes of heedtracker, Robert Peffers and yesindyref2. Thank you so much.

    410. louis.b.argyll says:

      Rock said,
      ‘For your information, all three
      (Canada, Australia, New Zealand)
      are against an independent Scotland’

      Yeah?
      Maybe in the same way that the UK is pro-Brexit?
      Pure Establishment self-interest disguised as public opinion.

    411. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “lay persons, (i.e. non-legal eagles), will be able, like me”

      Sorry, I didn’t realise that the greatest expert on Scottish legal and constitutional affairs of all time was a humble “lay person” who got his information from Google.

      Sorry again.

    412. HandandShrimp says:

      I never watch it but I see that Farage is on QT yet again tomorrow. I have no idea what the BBC are on but I hope they brought enough for everyone.

    413. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      28 February, 2018 at 9:41 pm
      @Heed
      The thing is the media genuinely believe Scotland’s shite, they’ve read or heard their own stuff so often, the lie has become the fact in their own minds.

      Maybe. But its what they dont report about Scotland that’s the real toryboy creepout.

      That medic on I think BBC r4 vote tory Today gimp show, current owner Nic Robinson, began talking about Scottish NHS improvements that I had never heard of, none of it. Probably because its simply not reported by UK msm in Scotland or England. Certainly the English medic was very critical of Westminster and why.

      It was also a bit of a culture shock listening to such a positive review of Scots gov like this, working with medics to get the improvements medics want, on the BBC, let alone anywhere else in the UK msm.

      This kind of good government by Holyrood, that everyone in Pacific Quay for example will be enraged by, will never report but beneath their endless tidal wave of BBC says SNP out propaganda, people really are changing their minds about Scotland.

      That’s the hope:D

    414. stewartb says:

      heedtracker @ 8:27 pm

      Thanks for this link: “One for the teachers out there. Wonder how they’ll go indyref2.”

      https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/teaching-unions-hit-back-after-theresa-may-attacks-scottish-education

      Whenever any BritNat and opponent of the Scottish Government bases its criticism of Scottish school educational standards on the Pisa (Programme for International Student Assessment) results – as the PM has just done and as the Tories and Labour do all the time – be aware of the following.

      There is a wealth of academic authorities internationally i.e. with no skin in the game of Scotland’s politics, that have a sceptical (at the very least) view of the PISA assessments as the basis on which to judge, or base a strategy for, a country’s educational system. As one example see: http://archive.is/DqNNE

    415. Rock says:

      Bob Mack,

      “By the way Rock, some lawyer must have really done a number on you.Your dislike is bordering on pathological”

      Scotland remains a colony of England after 311 years because The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low.

      So called “human rights lawyers” included. They trouser hundreds of thousands while people starve in Scotland.

      Nothing personal mind you.

    416. yesindyref2 says:

      Cheerio !!!

      Tally-ho old chap. Bottoms up!

    417. Dr Jim says:

      Maplins:

      The CEO stepped down from Maplins citing Brexit as the reason for it’s closure and increasing costs of 15% from America

      Are the media telling us that? No they’re bloody well not!

      Up here in Scotchland we know why! THEY’RE WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT!

      I shouted that for the deaf Bastirt eejits who don’t have a computer and believe the stupit telly news

      STV news tells us that thousands of jobs will be lost because of the closures of ToysRus and Maplins **CRAP**
      ToysRus have 6 stores in Scotland and I can’t seem to find Numbers of Maplins stores in Scotland but we’re talking in the tens maybe hundreds NOT the thousands

      But the doddery old computerless folks and the anti SNP Goons love these *conflationary* UK statistics applied to Scotland only

    418. heedtracker says:

      HandandShrimp says:
      28 February, 2018 at 10:17 pm
      I never watch it but I see that Farage is on QT yet again tomorrow. I have no idea what the BBC are on but I hope they brought enough for everyone

      But why does it make you want to watch QT now. Farage is a star, like Trump for example.

      You just can’t tell what these goodfellas are going to come out with.

    419. Brian Powell says:

      HandandShrimp

      Well, when the FBI get their case together on the UKIP guy maybe we’ll find out who at the BBC is also connected to it all.

    420. Undeadshuan says:

      @rock

      How is The broom Cupboard in 77th baracks ?

    421. Rock says:

      Dr Jim,

      “Maplins:

      The CEO stepped down from Maplins citing Brexit as the reason for it’s closure and increasing costs of 15% from America”

      He would blame everyone except himself wouldn’t he?

      You must be naive to take his word for it.

      Companies like this fold due to incompetent and corrupt fatcat directors milking them dry, in my humble opinion.

      The goods Maplin flogged were all manufactured in China, not in the EU or USA.

    422. Dr Jim says:

      @Rock

      Your time’ll come kid, get yourself another hobby

    423. heedtracker says:

      Maplins:

      The CEO stepped down from Maplins citing Brexit as the reason for it’s closure and increasing costs of 15% from America

      Are the media telling us that? No they’re bloody well not!

      BBC r4 Today, then hourly and lunchtime and Eddie Mair’s PM news gimps explained today that its all down to internet shopping killing the high street.

      Hours and hours of BBC liars.

      Once again, its a culture shock to see that CEO of Maplin clearly explain that its Brexit, consumers are worse off already and the pound crash.

      Beeb gimpery will get the same info from the CEO of Maplin and then they lie, blatantly, for toryboy rule.

      Rock’s bashing on about how The Scottish justice system is rotten to the core.

      They are the least of our UKOK worries.

    424. heedtracker says:

      The goods Maplin flogged were all manufactured in China, not in the EU or USA.

      OK Rock, but have you got more Brexit money in your pocket?

      Did a crashed pound not mean more expensive Chinese imports?

      See Rock, youre so full of UKOK tory stuff, you cant even argue anymore.

      Why not join your Scotland in Union chums btl here. Its not pretty. They’re going SiU vote tory mental Rock.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-43227809?SThisFB

    425. Phronesis says:

      Prof Allyson Pollock et al explaining to WM Health and Social Care Committee (that appears to be in denial) the consequences of their own policies;

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/ebca6c50-08af-4686-86e6-7628f054a831

      ‘…the elephant in the room is the lack of trust in the direction of privatisation’

      The 2012 Health and Social Care Act in the dock (thankfully doesn’t apply to Scotland).
      Procurement of NHS services in England done via financial service incentives and competition.The real and current threat of Brexit and US trade deals whilst UK govt is getting the NHS market ready.

      https://nhaparty.org/paying-gps-to-not-refer-patients-unethical/

      https://twitter.com/NHSMillion

      https://mailchi.mp/nhap/nha-party-newsletter-september-916657

    426. Fred says:

      Aye, the Subway shut early to let the staff get home!

      Malt & Cod-Liver Oil was the jinkies!

    427. jfngw says:

      @Dr Jim

      As far as I can tell there is 14 Maplin stores in Scotland, they don’t have a massive staff level in any shop I have been in so being generous about 140 jobs in Scotland.

      Anyone wanting electronic parts, Maplin was pretty poor, expensive, not a great range and some of the stock didn’t seem to have changed from when I used them in the 1970’s. Much better suppliers online, not necessarily always cheaper but more modern components and wider stock range.

    428. Legerwood says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      28 February, 2018 at 8:20 pm
      @Legerwood says: 28 February, 2018 at 7:09 pm:

      “Given that the whole system is underground am I alone in being puzzled by this?”
      ……….

      Actually I did not say that. It is a quote from gus1940 @ 5.33. In my post at 7.09 pm I was replying to his post and copied and pasted his post into mine. As usual I used quotation marks at the end of the quote and a series of dots to separate the quote from my reply.

      Maybe I need to make the distinction between quote and response clearer.

    429. Thepnr says:

      Looking forward to Theresa May’s speech on Friday. Bet it will be a cracker LOL

    430. Hamish100 says:

      rock

      the unthinking brit nat socialiast.

      How come you were late on tonight? Out making a 1 in a thousand years snowman/woman in the likeness of mundell/ davidson?

    431. Daisy Walker says:

      Folks,

      If you have not already done so, can I please, please ask or point you to viewing

      Kirsty Hughes Twitter account – and look up the Guardian – John Major interview and Q and A session.

      It’s important. Have a look, see what you think, see what you PLAN as a result.

      The English Establishment have got themselves a statesman, who is speaking sense about the dangers of Brexshit, and is electable and able to round up middle England for a Brexshit rethink/ revote of some description. Which will rob wind from Indy Ref 2′ sails.

      Have a look. Then get planning. The ‘UK single market’ is going to be the big one. Lets start shredding it to pieces now.

      Yes Now.

    432. jfngw says:

      I seem to remember the new Scottish BBC controller declaring that one of her objectives was to regain the trust of the viewers. The BBC in Scotland has, to my mind, actually become worse since this point.

      It’s reporting is even more biased than before, the reporting of the continuity bill is a prime example, the PO is highlighted, the Lord Advocate is marginalised. The purpose of the bill is miss-reported as if these areas are not currently devolved and it is merely a confrontation with WM regarding these powers.

      They do excel though at snow reporting. Of course with their Skype/phone reports they failed to ask the drivers if their journey was truly necessary.

    433. jfngw says:

      @thepnr

      If the definition of cracker is vacuous and full of empty jingoistic rhetoric (beloved union), then I agree. It will be a reiteration of the stance that has already been rejected, dressed up in new clothes of course but still pie in the sky stuff.

    434. Daisy Walker says:

      Very good thread on twitter here about the realities of Brexit, from Peter North EUReferendum.com. And he wants a leave! Even he is pulling his hair out at the shear ignorance.

      Pete North?
      @PeteNorth303
      Follow Follow @PeteNorth303
      More
      1. We’ve heard much about UK sovereignty but this debate fails to look at the issue from the EU point of view that it is a single sovereign customs territory with its own rules & conditions of entry for goods. The NI question is one of how the UK to make unprecedented exemptions.

    435. Ed t head says:

      Saw ex pm jm he is speaking more sense than the gov in wm how can they still think a bunch of nutters either hard or soft brexit get it through there heads, the eu is a big block and the supposed uk is the wee man grasping at straws. They think they have power but are looking at the breakup of the U.K. So the future will see the breaking of the U.K. As a result of a need to boost the former uk as a world power, that was a dream from the 1940s. Thanks to all for the links haven’t read so much for a while even stopping my weekly trashy paperbacks.

    436. Kangaroo says:

      Stravaiger @ 7:32pm

      The reason for the Continuity Bill is because WM is intent on rewriting the devolution settlement of 1999 which gave the SG control over certain powers including areas such as farming and fishing which were covered by EU legislagion. WM wants these powers back so they can do trade deals for the whole UK. The SG knows this would be against the interests of the people who live in Scotland and therefore have created the Continuity Bill which covers what happens to those powers when the UK leaves the EU. On this it does not matter that Scotland voted 62% to remain. It does matter that the original Scotland Act was backed by a rather large % of the sovereign people of Scotland.
      They cannot undo that without a referendum of the sovereign people of Scotland. Cue constitutional crisis, or an ungraceful backdown by the tories. (Grace not being a tory strong point)

      @Robert Peffers

      I always enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative and get to the real meat of the constitutional issue. Which is indeed the sovereignty of the people.

      I think I need to suggest that sovereignty rests with the people and it can never be removed (except by the wholesale genocide of that people). People can only every delegate their “authority to act” but never their sovereignty. It is this “authority” that is given to parliament when we vote, nothing else. Thus parliament cannot rescind or otherwise dispose of the people’s sovereignty.

      On English sovereignty
      1688 etc Sovereignty was delegated to the English parliament. In this case only one person needed to “sign” in order to delegate, so not the same as Scotland. This parliament was formally dissolved in 1707, thus the delegation was automatically rescinded. Do you know if English sovereignty was ever subsequently delegated to the new Parliament of GB after 1707? Or have they just assumed authority like they do everything else.

      ———————-

      This is the inherent difficulty with suggestions such as UDI, Parliament has not received the Authority from the people for such an act. Therefore either we have indyref or the Treaty of Union is dissolved in the Courts due to some breach of that treaty. This is why WM will distance itself from either of these avenues.

      So we have two apparently incompatible instructions to the Scottish parliament.
      1) Keep the UK union as per 2014 indyref and
      2) remain in the EU as per EUref 2016.

      How do we solve this conundrum or do both?
      Either a) have indyref2, and/or
      b) apply for EU membership when the UK leaves on 29Mar19, as we have already got a 62% remain vote we do not need to ask this question again no matter how many BritNats say it was a UK vote.

      So there are several pathways to a constitutional crisis that will end up in the Courts, with a dissolution of the UK being the outcome. I would settle for that as it avoids the need for another referendum with all its Britnattery. However I do recognise that another indyref may be the politically preferred route.

    437. Still Positive says:

      Teresa May will address the Tory Conference by telling them how incompetent the SNP SG are and giving examples of the NHS, Education, Transport, Housing, etc. ALL based on England’s performances of the above.

      It’s what she did the last time. It will reported on the BBC and those who are not online will fall for it.

    438. Thepnr says:

      @jfngw

      “Pie in the sky” is exactly the description I meant by “a cracker”.

      Just wait and see 🙂

    439. Thepnr says:

      I have just thought about Brexit and the UK governments performance in the negotiations so far.

      Well now I’m concerned, no UK government could get everything so wrong or have handled it so badly than May and Davies have. I’m concerned now that it’s all a smokescreen engineered to ensure everything collapses and there is a to be a 2nd referendum on the EU.

      This might sound far fetched but is it? Cameron never wanted to leave the EU in the first place and believed that the UK voter would support that position.

      He got it badly wrong and walked immediately, somebody is pulling the strings and it’s not us.

      Looks to me now like just the two options considering all the difficulties and that they can’t even agree what was meant to be the first phase that was supposedly agreed in December.

      It’s either a full on hard Brexit or surprisingly things are so serious that the people have to have a say on the matter a second time.

      OK call me deluded but I’ll tell you, nothing now would surprise me.

    440. Still Positive says:

      The pnr @ 12.28

      In the light of John Major’s speech and Heseltine recently it does sound plausible.

      Of course no guarantees a 2nd ref would give a different result.

      Pretty sure the EU is more than a little pissed off with them.

    441. Robert Peffers says:

      @Kangaroo says: 1 March, 2018 at 12:05 :
      @Robert Peffers
      “I always enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative and get to the real meat of the constitutional issue. Which is indeed the sovereignty of the people.”

      Good and sensible comment, Kangeroo.

      I’m just about whacked now and going to bed so will keep this brief as I can: I believe there are pathways for the EU to legally use to get Scotland to be the inheritors of the United Kingdom membership. I have posted this several times in the past but it can bear being posted again.

      The EU is dedicated to uniting Europe and there isn’t any EU laws, rules or other mechanisms to remove anyone’s EU citizenship against their will. This is the basis behind how the BRUKEXiteers had to formally submit a request to leave. This is the only legal way to exit the European Union.

      Now the European Union is well aware that the UK, (who always use only initials as it is easier to use to brainwash folks), is actually legally not the unified country it likes to portray itself as. It is legally a political union that contains four distinct countries.

      Its actual title gives the game away – it plainly is a United Kingdom and it only has two, equally sovereign, kingdom partners. And one of those partner kingdoms is also a single country and that single country/kingdom has voted to remain in the union with the other 27 member states of the EU.

      The point is that as there is no way out of the union for member states and no way for the EU to take away an EU citizens citizenship the EU would thus lose the trust of its citizens if it expelled over 5 million of them who were founder members of the EU.

      If the EU told the UK government that, as it is a bipartite Kingdom and not a single Kingdom or country, that if it wants to take the Kingdom of England out then that is their right but as the Kingdom/country of Scotland voted to remain then Scotland will be the continued member and the Kingdom of England could go fly their kite.

      The EU continues still with the same number of member states. Scotland gets what Scotland wants, the Kingdom of England gets what it wants, and if they want to do the job properly, then Scotland invites Gibraltar to be a Scottish associate member and Ireland invites N.I. to reunite with the Republic.

      Everyone is happy by getting what they wanted – or do they?

      Am I wrong in believing that What Westminster really wants is to remain as the country of England devolving English powers to three underling Countries?

      Now remember that if the EU expels a whole country/kingdom’s citizens it will need to rewrite EU laws in order to do so as there is currently no EU ways to expel citizens against their wills and every member state has a veto.

      Now I’m lacking sleep for some weeks now and it is way past time to get to bed.

      Night all – Oops Morning all.
      ;-))

    442. Big Phil says:

      This uk gov are like the school bully that suddenly realises that naebody likes them , they try there best to get all they’re mates tae help, but they’re mates urny there. They then become the cowards that they are. As an ex sodjer I detest the butchers apron and realise now that i only joined because my employers took away any prospects that I could have chosen.I didnt make myself poor maggie thatcher took my riches. And Scotlands. And it gets my wick that psb’s forget. I for one wont forget these tractors or anyone that go’s againt us being free, always remember “ye make yer bed” Scotland will let ye “lie” in it.

    443. Big Phil says:

      Just a thought but why dont we remind oor fellow scots how maggie loved us. just saying.

    444. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      No, you’re not deluded, that is a possibility.

    445. Dr Jim says:

      Jacob Rees Mogg a man who’s worth around 100 million quid who’s never taken the top off his own boiled egg coz his Nanny does it for him says council estate born and bred former Prime Minister John Major is a Euro Elite

      You’d laugh but the Goons’ll believe it

    446. mr thms says:

      The UK government says all of the devolved powers for which the EU has responsibility would return to Scotland. I’ve read the Scotland Act 2016 introduces the concept shared power. I would like to know where it says that because if it is true, then it begs the question ‘Was the Scotland Act 2016 drafted with the result of the EU referendum in mind?’. I have always thought the purpose of Article 50 was to facilitate the internal enlargement of the EU, and the ways things are going I think I might be right.

    447. Fred says:

      Correct about the BBC, Jackie Burd’s skype interview with a SOB stuck in a car took up half the news. If he was a doctor on call he would doubtless have informed us of the fact, sensible people are put in harms way thanks to his stupidity, Burd is well past her sell-by-date & has made her pile. Time the auld waxwork got the heave!

    448. Robert Louis says:

      I despise Tories and all that they selfishly believe in, they are, as evidenced by their selfish opinions, not nice people. Having said that, I watched John Major in two interviews last night, and it was like a breath of fresh air. He called the brexiteers out for what they are, liars.

      It is a ling time since ANY UK politicians outside Scotland, actually spoke to the truth of brexit so candidly. He made it very clear, that their is NO brexit deal or scenario which will not damage people in the UK. Any brexit will be bad.

      People really should sit up and listen, because, despite being a Tory, he was a Prime minister, and has nothing to gain from speaking out in this way.

      Brexit is just nonsense from start to finish. It is lie after lie after lie, piled high upon each other. Stupid nonsense like ‘we will leave the EU and get a better bespoke free trade deal, but not adhering to EU laws, in its place’. It is such utter, utter hogwash.

      Meanwhile, the smarmy snake-like Rees Mogg multi millionaire of the English landed gentry, appears on TV to snark, in his own particularly snide way, that John Major is just a ‘European elite’.

      I notice above some are suggesting the current strategy of the UK government is a deliberate ploy for talks to fail, so they can walk away with NO DEAL, FULL HARD BREXIT, and casually (as usual) blame the EU. I think they are correct.

      Ireland border- blame the EU

      immigrants – blame the EU

      poor economy – blame the EU

      freedom of movement – blame the EU (always somehow forgetting the benefits of freedom of movement for people FROM the UK).

      Trade tariffs – blame the EU

      and so on…

      Oh yes, those people will go on blaming the EU for everything, even after they leave. Brexiteers are liars, each and every one. The fact that the craven mainstream media (especially the paid liars at the lying propagandist BBC) lends them even one scintilla of credibility, just beggars belief.

    449. TheItalianJob says:

      @Robert Louis at 8.01 am

      Good post and well said.

    450. Robert Louis says:

      Since we are talking about selfish greedy tories and Margaret Thatcher (currently residing in hell), let’s never forget what she said about Scotland;

      “We English, who are a marvellous people, are really very generous to Scotland.’

      Margaret Thatcher.

      Aye, while you steal our oil wealth, lie to us, and spitefully destroy all our industry.

    451. starlaw says:

      Saw various interviews with ordinary working class people across N. England last weekend.
      These people seem to think all their problems will vanish when we leave the EU. The recurring theme was “I just wish things would go back to how they were before we joined the common market”
      Have they got a shock coming, I felt sorry for them and wonder what will happen when they finally wake up.

    452. McDuff says:

      I had a rare look a BBC Scotland? last night and they were doing a piece on fishing specifically the waters around Shetland. They said the industry was only worth around £1 billion to the UK economy, so imagine what it would be worth to an independent Scotland.
      But the thing that was interesting was that the report never once used the word Scotland, it was all Shetland and the UK ,it was as if this country no longer existed.
      I`ve noticed this happening more and more of late and there is no doubt the British state is hard at work.

    453. Macart says:

      @Thepnr

      I’d say there is a struggle at the heart of Westminster/UK politics and it could literally fall either way. Whoever wins, the component nations and populations of the UK lose. Why? Mainly because the practice of politics which brought the UK to its knees won’t stop.

      Reminds me of a great quote from the televised Sharpe’s series: “There are two kinds of officers, sir: killin’ officers and murderin’ officers. Killin’ officers are poor old buggers that get you killed by mistake. Murderin’ officers are mad, bad, old buggers that get you killed on purpose – for a country, for a religion, maybe even for a flag. You see that Major Hogan, sir? That’s what I call a murderin’ officer.”

      That? That’s politics as it is practised UK style. That’s Westminster all over the front and back. Those that don’t make your life a misery from greed and/or ineptitude, will make it a misery because they see it as their God given, fleg wavy, patronage ridden right.

      Narure of the beastie kinda thing. Happily though, regardless of who is winning that struggle we can and should avoid it altogether. Fact is, there’s never been a better time or opportunity. All we need do is want to walk through the door. 🙂

    454. Brian Powell says:

      Robert Louis

      But what is worse was the complete lack of fight from Labour in Scotland when Thatcher carried out her industrial destruction.

      On a wider front if we look at the huge size and power of the unions, Labour having 13 yrs in Gov with a overwhelming majority, yet there is still have the situation where pensions are the lowest in Europe and Brexit moves ever closer, with all its attendant chaos.

    455. Kangaroo says:

      @ starlaw 8:35am 1 Mar

      Totally agree they are deluded in the extreme. Pulling the pillow over their heads and hoping it will all revert back to the 1850’s. It probably will except they will be the ones out in the fields or downstairs while the Rees-Moggies will be giving the orders.

      Meanwhile the EU plays the legal text card and the right wing of the tory party throws a wobbly. Loving it!

      Pass more chocolate. Yum!

    456. Kangaroo says:

      @ Brian Powell 8:48am

      That should just prove to you that they are all part of the Establishment and that is the problem.

      Red Blue Labour Tory all the same. They work against the people not for the people.

      Vote SNP and indy all the way.

    457. Breeks says:

      Kangaroo says:
      1 March, 2018 at 12:05 am
      Stravaiger @ 7:32pm

      …I always enjoy reading your posts as they are very informative and get to the real meat of the constitutional issue. Which is indeed the sovereignty of the people.

      I think I need to suggest that sovereignty rests with the people and it can never be removed (except by the wholesale genocide of that people). People can only every delegate their “authority to act” but never their sovereignty. It is this “authority” that is given to parliament when we vote, nothing else. Thus parliament cannot rescind or otherwise dispose of the people’s sovereignty.

      Agreed. What is disappointing however is the Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution is not recognised by Europe. If it was, Scotland could be recognised as an International Interlocutor, and speculation of Scotland’s place in the EU could be formally agreed, and not left hanging as a matter of conjecture.

      Scotland would still require its Continuity bill, but not for laws returning from Europe, instead, for laws returning from Westminster.

      Sovereignty is a badly misunderstood word. Member states of the EU do not forfeit sovereignty by entering EU agreements. No matter what a nation concedes and agrees to in Europe, just as the UK has demonstrated, a nation can unilaterally remove itself from the EU, and thus has the ultimate veto on whether it is bound by any condition or agreement. Sovereignty is the ultimate power – the apex of the pyramid. Supposing the only power you have is the power to say no and walk away from an agreement, you have sovereignty because your decision cannot be overturned by another. Yes, your agreement should and treaties might constrain what you can do without breaking an agreement of treaty, but that is not an issue of sovereignty.

      Yes, of course a Nation is expected to be bound by what it agrees and signs up to. But as Kangaroo says, the agreement is a concession of authority. It is not a concession of sovereignty. When referenced as such, it is a sloppy interpretation of what the word sovereignty properly means.

      Scottish Sovereignty has the power to say yes or no to staying part of the UK. Scottish Sovereignty has the power to say yes or no to staying part of the EU. Scotland the Nation should be logging hard to have the EU recognise Scotland’s Sovereign Constitution. It is not correct to assume that this constitutional sovereignty is hostage to a democratic majority, because Scotland voting YES or voting NO is an equally sovereign edict. We are confusing actual sovereignty, with a sovereign act. They are not the same thing.

      Scotland should be demanding, and getting, Interlocutor status in Brexit negotiations with Europe.

    458. gus1940 says:

      Is it not time for the PO to be ushered into the library where he would find on a table a glass, a bottle of whisky and a loaded revolver.

    459. Fred says:

      Global-Warming deny-er Farage was apparently called a gammon-faced shit-flute! Seems a bit harsh, what!

    460. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Brian Powell at 8.48

      Couldn’t agree more. Many of us well remember the utterly useless Feeble 50.

      Many of us went down to Westminster on two huge trains to demonstrate in London as Parliament debated a Gartcosh motion,sponsored by Labour only to be told when we got there that the motion had been abandoned and they were going to debate Westland Helicopters (of concern in the Tory south of England) instead.

      We got a meeting with a handful of Labour Scottish MPS in the Great Hall as a sop.

      I suggested to the meeting that if Scotland’s 50 Labour MPs decided they were going north to set up a Scottish parliament Gartcosh would be immediately saved.

      One Labour MP – the late Allen Adams agreed. The rest shuffled their feet. W*ankers.

      Any surviving respect I had for what had been a great social movement with huge Scottish roots were sunk over my years of politics in Labour Lanarkshire. Useless deceivers and betrayers and lots of them in the House of Lords.

    461. North chiel says:

      “Macduff @ 0830 “ . Saw that propaganda piece with Lorna Gordon , the EBC narrative being that Shetland is “ not part of Scotland” and of course this propaganda encompasses not only fishing, but also OIL and the future tens of billions of pounds worth of revenue destined to “ flow” to the London treasury over the forthcoming decades from the massive fields West of Shetland . Yes just another
      “ propaganda piece” from the“ bought& sold” “ North British EBC” .

    462. Kangaroo says:

      Breeks @ 9:17 1Mar

      I believe Scottish sovereignty was recognised by the Council of Europe and pressure applied to WM as a result. This forced the Tories to concede a devolved parliament but was left to Tony Blair to implement after the GE. D Dewar only implemented what was a foregone conclusion.

      I therefore conclude that whilst the EU recognises us as an interlocutor they cannot consult us due to the membership being a UK one. That ceases in March 19. Meanwhile all the noise from Holyrood means that any trade negotiations will have to have a massive caveat regarding Scottish independence, or simply exclude any scottish assets from discussion.

      Win win

    463. chasanderson200 says:

      O/T Important Info.
      WINGERS SOCIAL NIGHT OUT.
      The next one has been arranged for 7th April in the Otters Head, Woodside, Glenrothes. Full datails of food, drink, travel, and accommodation arrangements are over on Off Topic page now.



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