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Yet another bad day for irony

Posted on September 23, 2015 by

The editor of the New Statesman just tweeted this image, trailing an interview with Jim Murphy, who alert readers may recall led Scottish Labour for a few months this year before its apocalyptic disaster of a general election campaign which saw it lose 40 of the 41 Scottish seats it won in 2010:

murphyposttruth

Oh, wait – maybe he’s trying to claim the credit for it.

Because people in Scotland will probably remember Murphy’s leadership best for the assertion, repeated daily for weeks on end, that “the biggest party always forms the government”, which Murphy and the rest of his party stuck to doggedly no matter how many times it was debunked.

asimplefact

Except that thanks to Joe Pike’s book “Project Fear”, we now know this:

labournotes

Jim Murphy spent months on end telling Scottish voters what he knew perfectly well to be a lie, and for which Labour had two pages of notes prepared on election night pointing out it was a lie so they could U-turn on it.

So it takes quite some degree of chutzpah for him to turn up now telling people we’re living in “post-truth politics” when for his entire time as Scottish Labour leader Murphy was strenuously and desperately planning exactly that.

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    1. 23 09 15 22:43

      Yet another bad day for irony | Speymouth

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    222 to “Yet another bad day for irony”

    1. gordoz says:

      Thank Christ now I can get away from ‘Peffers’

    2. Betty Boop says:

      Witnessed him on his bru crate lying about what he had said in private just minutes beforehand. The cheek of the man!

      Then again, he may be unbalanced and actually need help. Too kind?…

    3. Thepnr says:

      Oh NO! Is he back? I thought he’d gone for good.

      Just what does post-truth mean anyway? After the truth? This man has never spoken the truth in his life.

    4. jimnarlene says:

      Murphy was, is and always will be, the definition of a liar.

    5. yesindyref2 says:

      Who? Oh yes: “Klingons on the starboard bow”, “scrape them off, Jim”.

    6. Wulls says:

      i have no words……none……not one.
      Maybe this one…..
      Wanker.

    7. Walter Scott says:

      I knew Murphy was a mad liar. He’s a bad liar too. By the way, what does he do for a living now when he’s no calling up the media to bleat about how awful everyone is who isn’t in the Jim Murphy party. Sitting on a bar stool, weeping into his glass of irn bru. Drunk on smug self adoration imploring the barman to just see it his way. I coulda been a contender but those bums just didn’t listen. Now I have to pay somebody in a Scotland strip & Jim Murphy mask to jog on Glasgow green coz I’m fucked if I’m gonna do it for real. Apologies to Jim if he’s still jogging round Glasgow green in his Scotland strip at 7:00 am every morning now that the media has moved on

    8. Lesley-Anne says:

      I wonder if he has a view regarding wee Dugdale’s idea of having a *ahem* free vote for Labour members on Scottish independence the next time the question is asked.

      Do we know if he was standing on his Irn Bru soap box when he was interviewed?

      We have all this and the best is yet to come. No not Murph the Smurph but Catalonia as it goes to the polls on the 27th. I wonder what Murph the Smurph thinks about an independent Catalonia. After all everything seems to pointing towards a victory for the parties supporting independence. 😀

    9. shug says:

      It was not just Jim
      Remember the chaos in Glasgow from the BBC
      There was clearly an absence of truth in their broadcasts at every turn.
      Not must has changed

    10. Lollysmum says:

      Jim Murphy-thought we’d seen the last of him “sigh”

      Wouldn’t recognise the truth if it jumped up & bit him. Oh wait-it did. He wasn’t re-elected 🙂

    11. Brian Powell says:

      The Limping Dead, Season 3.

    12. Donald MacKenzie says:

      What exactly is “post-truth politics”? Does it mean – “They didnae vote for me, therefore they wiz wrong.”

    13. Bob Mack says:

      The wind must have changed again. Labour policy is like a sail which points in whichever direction the wind is prevailing at any given moment

    14. De Valera says:

      Nice to hear from Jim again, I had forgotten all about him. I have joked before about Corbyn being a plant (He isn’t I know but will be easily manipulated).

      I am seriously starting to think that Jim and McTernan have been planted by the SNP. Who could ask for better (should it be worse?) opponents.

    15. shug says:

      By the way
      which unionist papers have been reporting along the lines of:

      Nicola is a nodding donkey
      Aggressive
      Bully
      Who does she think she is

      I have come across a couple of unionists with a very similar description of her which made me wonder what levels of auto suggestion are in operation

    16. CameronB Brodie says:

      …All of which meant that when ABC (Anyone But Corbyn) spoke, it felt that many good people just didn’t want to know. The lesson is: treat the public as informed adults, know what you believe in, and tell your truth.

      @ James Tiberius Murphytroid
      Are you dighted or just congenitally dishonest? The Unionist disinformation you spouted around the country was just that. Unionist disinformation! Didn’t you also refuse to answer difficult but reasonable question from onlookers and aggressively shout-down little old ladies?

    17. Dave Hansell says:

      Thepnr,

      What is “post truth?”

      Pertinent question.

      I suspect what we are dealing with here is a particular definition of truth which might best be explained by reference to the quote (I think it might have been around 2003) attributed to Karl Rove about the Bush administration and the movement it represents (the end of history, neo liberalism etc.) creating their own reality, them being history’s actors, and everyone else living in what he referred to as ‘the reality based community.’

      Those who buy into this narrative, on both sides of the Atlantic, genuinely believe that what they represent, their ideas, their policies, their position, is the objective ‘truth’, it is the only reality, it is how the world actually works. End of. No further discussion necessary.

      By definition any other ideas, policies, positions, ways of organising that do not fit into or adhere to their ‘truth’ etc. are delusional, dangerous, off the wall, beyond the pale, and dangerous nonsense.

      It hardly surprising that people like Murphy, along with much of the current PLP who buy into this narrative, are producing this kind of analysis.

      In a normal society those who believe such gibberish would be locked away for their own and societies safety. Unfortunately, since Thatcher’s care in the community policy this option no longer exists and we are now having to live with the results.

    18. Thepnr says:

      “We may not be able to count on Nigel Farage being an Alex Salmond – a useful, vote-losing villain”

      Says the man who couldn’t hang on to his own seat, losing it to the SNP. Irony implode hahaha.

    19. Croompenstein says:

      I wonder if Daisley helped the skull write that pish, kinda reminded me of the guff he spouts..

    20. Iain More says:

      The weasel didnae even get a peerage and now even AG Barr is pissed at him.

    21. Walter Scott says:

      Will somebody please give him a job to keep him off the streets

    22. David says:

      We’ve got a post-truth BBC.

    23. Albaman says:

      Jim gave a whole new meaning to “Murphys Law”!.

    24. Joannie says:

      The only thing Jim Murphy will be remembered for is that he was an awful waste of a good egg.

    25. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. “post-truth politics”. This is simply spin from Tiberius. He is painting white as black, for an English audience. All they will know of the indyref is MSM bile, cybernats are evil and all controlled from Bath and the SNP are Nazis.

      We are all living in an age of instant information dispersal, so it’s up to us to help the readers Tiberius is attempting to influence, to recognise soggy cereal when they see it.

    26. JLT says:

      Why oh why are they talking to him. Has Murphy got anything to really say these days. Rather doubtful if we’re honest…

    27. MrObycyek says:

      “We are living through a period of post-truth politics.”

      Eh? What is post-truth politics?

      That article from the New Statesmen is comedy gold. Here are some other gems:

      “The era of impeccably researched documents winning the day on their own is gone and gone for good.”

      I wouldn’t mind being directed to one of these impeccably researched documents Jim Murphy mentions. Just one would do. I suspect Jim’s idea of a an impeccably researched document and my own would be fundimundilly different. Can anyone say dodgy dossier?

      Or how about this:

      “Yet that’s what comes from splitting the difference with people, whether nationalist or hard-left, whom you know to be well intentioned but irreconcilably wrong.”

      What arrogance. Again, how can Jim Murphy know that all these people are wrong? Surely at some point there should be a moment where he should consider the possibility that he might be wrong. Well saying he moves in the same circles as John McTernan. Deluded does not even come close to describing these clowns.

    28. FergusMac says:

      Who gives a flying £%(& what this deranged ally of the Orange Order says? Like every “leader” of Labour’s North British branch office, he is neither use nor ornament.

    29. Capella says:

      I think he means that the YES voters and Jeremy Corbyn tell lies. But he doesn’t want to say that because that would be a lie, open to challenge. So he makes it sound like a social phenomenon, like post-impressionism or post-modernism (whatever that means).

      As CameronB Brodie’s link to NLP in the previous thread points out, by using vague and meaningless waffle, he can slip in a few subliminal suggestions to hypnotise his audience. While we are busy trying to work out what post-truth means, he slips in a meme.

      As long as we don’t actually read the article, we will resist being lulled into a condition of belief!

    30. Cadogan Enright says:

      does anyone know if Labour is still paying Smurph and McTieran actual wages?

      If so I am writing to Labours National Executive querying why they are paying these guys for constant attacks on their new leader worthy of the Daily Snail and Torygraph.

      Then again, maybe I should be doing the opposite? Maybe suggest they get a pay increase?

      Very confusing

    31. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      Picture of Cameron with the pig on twitter. Someone desperately wants him gone.

      Much as I detest the man he has a young family.

    32. mealer says:

      Jim Murphy? Pish.

    33. Cadogan Enright says:

      @Nana Smith 10.26

      I very much doubt if he would show the same consideration for you or any other Seperista.

      My post on his pig got banned by Facebook, I appealed – and won based on the fact that I had posted the truth – still waiting for Facebook to unfreeze the boost.

    34. heedtracker says:

      “We should have made a case against the nationalist shibboleths about oil, the Barnett formula and defence much earlier, and then more often. Instead, we implied: “Aye, we know that’s what you think but if you vote SNP you’ll get the Tories.”

      So from his NS waffle, he’s sneakily now lying about his lies, pretty historic lies too. His “simple fact” SLabour fraud now becomes “implied,” 4 months later.

      Go out and work Jim.

    35. ClanDonald says:

      Haha, brilliantly timed, Murphy, right on cue! Perfectly timed with Joe Pike’s book to make a maximum fool out yourself.

      It must be fun having guys like Murphy write your comedy material for you, Rev 😀

    36. Truth and Jim Murphy do not compute in anything.

      His whole existence politically is based on lies and bullying it is about time he was put back in the drawer in which he was brought up and then locked shut.

    37. Ben Donald says:

      “We may not be able to count on Nigel Farage being an Alex Salmond – a useful, vote-losing villain”

      What an extraordinary statement. What – who – does he mean “we”? Who does he intend us to think he means? I’m more convinced than ever that Murphy is essentially a long-standing spook.

    38. Jim says:

      Nana Smith says:
      Much as I detest the man he has a young family.
      ________________
      Lots of people have families, what about those that have committed suicide because of policies he is in favour of?

      What about those sanctioned for being minutes late for their signing on appointment then not having cash to buy food to feed their own.

      His family will survive, their £millions will go a long way to compensate their embarrassment.

    39. galamcennalath says:

      Post means after. After the truth. Sorry, when was the truth? I missed that.

    40. Robert Peffers says:

      @gordoz says: 23 September, 2015 at 9:09 pm

      “Thank Christ now I can get away from ‘Peffer”

      Well, gordoz, no you can’t. Futhermore, Christ has nothing to do with it and you need to learn to spell my name.

    41. Marie Clark says:

      In the name o the wee man, I thought that we had seen the last of this lying twerp. Like Dracula he’s crawled out his crypt.

      Anyway, who cares what this loser has to say. I see his timing as ever is useless Joe Pike has seen to that.

      Away and work ya big stumer and gie’s peace.

      Nana I see you say someone has released the pigate photo on twitter. I understand your concern for his family, but he does not care about your family or mine, so hell mend him. But you’re right, someone wants him gone. Bigtime, but who?

    42. Jim says:

      Marie Clark says:
      But you’re right, someone wants him gone. Bigtime, but who?
      ________

      Lord Ashcroft; hell hath no fury like a billionaire scorned.

    43. Democracy Reborn says:

      But I thought Murphy himself was a post-truth politician. Like when he spouted “I am not a unionist”.

    44. Grouse Beater says:

      Murphy in the news as the news?

      Failed politicians are automatically offered presenters jobs in television series, quoting passages from an out-of-date foxed railway manual while sucking wine in a train carriage, for example, being part of an opinion panel, dancing their varicose veins off, or hosting your own chat show. The only criterion for selection is the individual has to have failed spectacularly. He also get to write a newspaper column a week and paid a minimum of £500 for it. Life is good.

    45. Fiona says:

      @ Marie Clark

      I also understand concern for his family: but like you I am painfully aware that the worst of embarrassment pales in face of his determined attacks on the poor and disabled. As you say, hell slap it into him.

    46. Phronesis says:

      There is a strong argument for scrutinising the language of such individuals who are trying (though various subliminal linguistic messages and their charismatic leadership) to create myths that we can believe in-that is why this individual fails so spectacularly at it.

      Maybe he’s attempting emulate his hallowed ex-boss Mr Blair.He led us into an illegal war with Iraq despite the opinion polls showing most of the electorate were against it. His impressive discourse of leadership as he aspired to be a heroic figure of our times commanded the stage at the Labour Party conference in Bournemouth in 2003-

      ‘These are my values and yours. They are the key. But the door they must unlock is the door to the future….Get rid of the false choice; principles or no principles. Replace it with the true choice. Forward or back I can only go one way. I’ve not got a reverse gear’

      We are truly entering a post- truth politics- truthfully UKOK will be in reverse gear permanently as Scotland walks forward to independence. That is the key to our future.

    47. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. post-modernism. Apparently there are different flavours but it’s essentially a rejection of the normative values that emerged from the Enlightenment as modernist liberal humanism, I think. As such, it challenges the orthodoxies of the political economy so cherished by the Anglo/American Establishment

      ‘Equality, Pluralism, Universality: Current Concerns in Normative Theory’
      Anne Phillips
      The Gender Institute, LSE

      Normative theory flourishes best when there is no normative consensus; it is when we disagree about the principles by which we should live our lives that we most feel compelled to debate them. It may seem odd, then, that normative theory is currently in such a healthy condition, for this is supposed to be precisely such an age of consensus. Liberalism has gained an unprecedented ascendancy over socialism, old-style egalitarianism has fallen from favour, politicians jostle for the middle ground. With so many of the traditional oppositions – left versus right, direct versus representative democracy, equality versus difference – called into question, this hardly seems a good time for normative theory.

      …Through much of the 1980s, debate on this proceeded through an opposition between liberal and communitarian theory, the first associated with norms that were universal but relatively anodyne, the second with norms that were more substantive but linked to particular social contexts. In the paradigmatic liberal position (usually identified, though arguably mis-identified, with the early work of John Rawls), norms of justice were derived from a thought experiment that assumed individuals to be rational creatures intent on their own self-interest. Self-interest in isolation might encourage us to support policies that simply favoured our own kind: thus the rich would be against high taxes, while the poor would want better social provision. But if we could additionally set aside what we know about our current position in society – including what we know about our desires and values and goals – we could be brought to recognise the rationality of principles of justice that would be sufficiently favourable to each.
      If we did not know, for example, whether we were going to inherit wealth and talent, whether we were going to prefer opera to rock music, whether we were going to be atheists or Muslims or Jews, we would converge on principles of tolerance and moderate redistribution that could satisfy us whatever we turned out to be.

      http://tinyurl.com/ngfbam8 (pdf)

    48. David Smith says:

      Don’t worry about him, Nana;he’ll be fine. They always are…

    49. galamcennalath says:

      Jim says:
      “Lord Ashcroft; hell hath no fury like a billionaire scorned.”

      Seems to me a wider attack. It’s having a go at all the posh Eton boys and their alleged antics as students.

      It’s like someone wants to remove that element of the Tory upper echelon.

      Perhaps related to attitudes over EU? To be honest, I haven’t a clue how all the various Tories stand re the EU.

    50. gordoz says:

      The flawed chattering amongst themselves just about sums it up.

      I don’t think its much ‘chutzpah’ when you know a supportive press core and media will publish any old guff from a severely flawed & failed politician.

      The New Statesman who reads it ?

    51. A2 says:

      We appear to be trapped in a B-movie. No matter how fast you run through the forest. the plodding un-dead always catch up.

    52. gordoz says:

      And this is him leaving politics ?

    53. Walter Scott says:

      Dave Hansell; , hits every nail on the head . Perfectly, succinctly. Post Truth as Murphy has it has been used before, the ridiculing almost all of the ideas both snp First Ministers has been a constant form of attack. Murphy should come clean, he’s displaying all of the traits of neo liberal if not neo con thinking. Is he the right winger he appears to be. The delusions of those who once held power but now find they’ve been left behind must be confronted. Blair, Brown, Murphy, live a post truth existence. How many voters have these three men driven into the arms of the SNP by saying everything that the SNP does is rubbish & not proper politics?

    54. Gary45% says:

      Ah! The FUD returns,
      I take it he has been on a sabbatical to Israel to visit his side kick Benji the mass murderer, to find out 1,000,000 ways to hoodwink planet earth, by spouting more lies and SH*T.
      Welcome back FUD, take a bullet.(AG Barr needs you)

    55. Graeme Doig says:

      “Post truth politics”? … nope no idea.

      “A belief system grew that cheerfully shot the messenger and relegated opponents’ truths to malignly motivated opinion.” … Ah that what you mean Jim. You must be right. Wouldn’t want to argue my corner and be accused of being “malignly motivated”.

      FFS. Is it not time we were post Murphy?

    56. MrObycyek says:

      Poor old Jim Murphy all he needs now is a cameo in Mountain Goats and his life will be complete.

      That picture does him no favours although if he is struggling for work then he should pitch himself forward for a part in the upcoming movie The Goonies: Sloth The Early Years.

      Hey you guys!

      As for the Tories, great Freudian slip on Scotland 2015 from the guest who called them the tolies, their EU sceptics seem to be rather large in number which could prove interesting over the next few years.

    57. ben madigan says:

      “It’s like someone wants to remove that element of the Tory upper echelon”.

      No idea who the “somebody” might be but here’s a brief look at the implications of “initiate” behaviour https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2015/09/23/vile-bodies-mutual-secrets-mutual-blackmail/

    58. Nana Smith says:

      @David Smith

      I’m a big softie David, my concern was for the children.

      The tories want the kind of society that stops people caring.

    59. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Been thinking about the article in the Herald and probably elsewhere as well, where the Unionists are using the latest Kemp report to knock the SNP. But they ignore the bit where:

      “Professor Kemp said that oil firms could make savings due to reductions the cost of hiring rigs, while further tax reductions could also help. He is currently working on a new study which will examine the impact of further tax breaks, going beyond what has already been announced by George Osborne in his summer budget.”

      The Unionist Herald should be campaigning for its preferred government to reduce taxes, the Unionist posters and voters should be writing to their MP – or the one sole representative left in Scotland from their party or Farage if appropriate:

      “Dear Unionist MP,

      We’re Better Together, and we’re better in the all-encompassing arms of our beloved Union, with the strength and resources to smooth over any volatile volatilities as you lot promised. So listen pal, how’s about you approaching Osborne and asking ever so politely please pretty please could he give more tax incentives to the Oil Industry so we can get it up the SNP and show them how beneificent Westminster really is? Isn’t it?

      Your Sincerely

      A Unionist”

      That should do it.

    60. Capella says:

      O/T A piggate Hypothesis:
      As in America, there are two flavours of capitalist. One represents big business and multi-national corporations, the Republicans; one represents finance and professions, the Democrats. They fight each other for advantage in the role of lawmakers.

      The Tories are dividing over the EU referendum. Cameron is courting the business vote and wants to stay in. Who is courting the finance vote and wants to leave? Osborne? Are Cameron’s enemies maybe those representing the London financiers? Like UKIP, they want to avoid the potential regulation of the EU.

      City A.M. front page.

      https://archive.is/J4IMY

    61. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well who knew this would happen? 😉

      https://archive.is/dZK7u

    62. Charles Edward says:

      Truth is something our society must value.

      Subjective truth will serve the believers.
      This ‘post-truth’ assessment serves only those who believe in post-truth, or neo – truth, or meta truth or whatever nonsense clever sounding digestion of reality serves the sale of what they want you to buy.
      In this case it’s got that street minister credibility, the soapbox waving ravings of a delusional charlatan or TV evangelist.

      The digested reality in this instance here believed he had a chance to be First Minister.

      Do you remember bringing back the empty skoosh bottles and they’d wash them off put new stickers on fill them up with a new sealed lid?
      Those bottles would keep coming back, new fizz and brand new. You felt involved in the process, a type of ownership,responsibility even.
      Empty vessels.

      Floating rudderless on tides moved by greater forces. Bottled messages out of context now and probably only relevant to a passing moment.

      The truth isn’t the considered analysis or declaration in the bottle. It’s the sea itself.

      This is a nice watercolour of a man whose been on holiday. They couldn’t use a photo for 2 reasons. It lends a creative thoughtful touch to the quote which might suggest some erudite caption to be saved for the ages of man, if not at least a thought for the day.
      Had they chosen a photo this would have detracted from the reality or truth of the idea in the quotation. Almost every photo I have seen of this clown shows a demented person.

      Alleluia.

    63. Don McNab says:

      Dave will ???? It and Jim will sort it ????

    64. Cadogan Enright says:

      Great speech by Nichola.today http://www.facebook.com/theSNP/posts/10153721387819078

      Wonder why SNP allow so many persistent repeat Trolls on their Facebook page?

    65. heedtracker says:

      He’s probably staying toryboy loyal for a Danny Alexander style reward. They gave Sir Danny a knighthood, Michele Mone’s a Lady, Flipper Darling’s a lord, poor still Jim’s a carpet bagger. Sir Danny was grinching in the P&J this week about something or other but why they left a raging NO off their list is an odd one.

    66. yesindyref2 says:

      Interesting comment from the Mail though:

      “She was also appointed a Tory peer in a move seen as a reward for opposing Scottish independence and supporting the Tories at the election. It is believed she will be known as Baroness Mone of Mayfair.”

      Very honest of them, for some reason.

    67. The Dog Philosopher says:

      Looks as if Murph has had a few French Theorists tucked away inside his backpack. Either that or someone else is ghosting him with some ‘intellectual-sounding’ soundbites. But really it is just another form of spin-doctoring gibberish.

      Post-modernists have had an obsession with language and the ‘meaning of meaning’. The upshot being that words can only ever refer to other words (within any linguistic system) and therefore cannot achieve the ‘presence’ of the thing actually being referred to.

      The underlying problem is that language is an arbitary system, and ‘meaning’ can never be ‘fixed’, but is always open to re-interpretation/re-contextalisation. What this leads to is a situation known as relativism. Everything becomes ‘relative’ within a particular ‘dominant discourse’.

      As David Hansell points out above, what the neo-cons and neo-liberals are trying to do is take ownership of ‘truth’, and apply it relatively within their uber-capitalist world view.

      But either way, ‘post-truth’ is just gibberish!

    68. blackhack says:

      Ahh, Mr Murphy rears his head above the parapet again…

      In my local pub, nobody tells lies, the all tell “Murphies”

    69. MJT says:

      Murphy must have thought his work was done and the peerage was in the post. But no, he clearly got the call from some big cheese telling him he still has work to do before he can get his robe on.

      I can’t imagine anything he says comes from his own mind. He’ll be on message for a bit until someone several hikes above Murphy’s pay grade reckons he’s debased himself enough and the seat in the House of Lords will be his reward.

      One day this war’s gonna end.

    70. yesindyref2 says:

      Just floating an idea here, perhaps clouded by optimism.

      Is there a chance you think, that faced with a 45% YES vote risen to 50% in the polls, with 56 SNP MPs and 50% of the GE vote, with over 50% in polls for the Holyrood constituency vote and over 50% for Indy supporting parties in the regional vote, with Labour now apparently going neutral for Indy ref 2, with someone said, the LibDems doing the same, that some of the mass media in Scotland, the ones with relatively higher circulation figures to protect, are starting to moderate their tone, and back both sides in the run up to Indy Ref 2 to try to try to keep their circulation and advertising revenues up?

      Just a thought, but perhaps one to encourage …

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      The Dog Philosopher
      I don’t think you contradicted me there but I’ll hud ma wheesht on all things philosophical, from now on. 😉

      #reachedmylimit

      P.S. There are left-wing post-modernists, as well.

    72. arthur thomson says:

      Nicola is the diametric opposite of Murphy. She is a star who personifies what I want our movement to be.

      In case anyone has any doubts that does not mean that I think she or any other human being is perfect. I just think she is brilliant. Everyone should have a look at her speech on human rights legislation.

    73. Sandy Henderson says:

      I note A.G. Barr’s profits are down. Wonder why. Did he return the crates?

    74. yesindyref2 says:

      @The Dog Philosopher
      You mean like: “The symbol is NOT the thing symbolized; the word is NOT the thing; the map is NOT the territory it stands for.”? But yes, “post-truth” is just gibberish. I can’t see how it can have any influential effect on anyone who reads or hears it.

      @MJT
      Personally I think Murphy has just been dumped.

    75. Kevin Evans says:

      Yeeaaaaaa Jims back.

      I’ve missed him. Cameron screwing pigs and snorting Coke and Kezia talking complete bollocks isn’t enough for me. But hey Jims back, he’s 2 for 1.

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      @arthur thomson
      You mean her perfect imperfections? Yes I agree, she’s just natural.

    77. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      When I read the BTL comments under one of Rev Stu’s stories, I see why, eventually, we’re gonna win the independence debate.

      Over the past year or so, I occasionally dipped into pro-union Facebook pages and the comments I read were, on the most part, frankly, puerile.

      The standard of argument in Wings wipes the floor with what the imperialists come up with elsewhere. It’s gonna take a wee bit of time but, with the argumentative talent we see displayed on the pro-indy side of the debate, compared with what we see on the pro-imperial side, logic dictates that at some point, the balance will be well tipped in our favour.

      We have to get ‘the word’ out – that is our task.

      I Intend to retire at the start of 2021. I hope to retire in an independent Scotland.

    78. The Dog Philosopher says:

      Hey CameronB!

      Please keep doing what you do, philosophical or otherwise. I always read you posts and enjoy them.

      I just happen to be familiar with certain aspects of Po-Mo because I did an English Lit degree, where a lot of theory intersects. But it’s a vast, vast subject in terms of what’s out there. And you have to be aware of the demarcations between philosophy, political theory, literary theory, and critical theory itself, which now tends to incorporate many varied strands.

      But yes, it all stems from Marx, and generally a lot of social theory (sociology) leans towards a Marxian view. But a lot of socialists are quite sceptical about postmodernism’s dubious stance on morality (and rejection of history).

      Me? I just want to know stuff.

    79. manandboy says:

      POST-TRUTH POLITICS-ITS NOTHING NEW.

      Post-truth politics is necessary because we live in a system of government and commerce which is post-morality. Ditching morality is fundamental to the neo-Liberal agenda because it is deeply involved in national and international fraud on an industrial scale, requiring the involvement of politicians on the take.

      In the neo-Liberal world, there can be no room for truth. Indeed there is no need for it, since 99% of broadcast and print media is owned by the neo-Liberal Mafia. The neo-Liberals create the ‘truth’ in the same way an apprehended criminal will create his defence.

      The key trick of neo-Liberalism is to camouflage crime in the clothes of Government and Commerce, while at the same time, through the media, to make populations believe that everything is as it should be.

    80. The Dog Philosopher says:

      @yesindyref2

      Yeah, that kind of thing. I was just trying to nutshell the kind of ideas that might give rise to a term like ‘post-truth’, which Murphy is obviously drawing on.

      I don’t necessarily subscribe to such ideas!

    81. manandboy says:

      Were David Cameron to seek advice from the heads of the major banks around the world, on what he should do about Scottish Independence, he would be told to crush it.

      Thing is, that advice has already been given. This is what we’re up against.

    82. Macart says:

      Oh Jeez!

      Well if there’s any fella who’s a complete stranger to the truth period, never mind truth in politics, its James Murphy esq.

      Probably the single most dishonest and catastrophic branch manager of Labour in Scotland since our parliament was reconvened and considering the track records of the other branch managers, that’s quite an achievement.

    83. JaMur says:

      Brassneck on dim Jim is outrageous. The truth?

    84. yesindyref2 says:

      A warning to anyone daft enough to still be posting on the Herald (like me), apart from postings being deleted, there’s other postings, including ones by me, that have “Last edited: 3:13am Thu 24 Sep 15” on, when I DIDN’T EDIT IT.

      Same for other posters who have made no postings at 3 a.m.

      I can’t see changes in my posting, but be warned, the Herald may be up to dirty tricks with older threads, like “Aberdeen University oil expert hailed by the SNP makes tax warning over North Sea oil revenues”.

    85. yesindyref2 says:

      OT
      Seeing the National article about William Walker, professor of international relations at St Andrews, where he says that Trident renewal could contribute to pressure for our Independence, I’ve read some of his stuff before and it’s interesting, but I found this one I missed, seemingly dated 15th Sep 2014 (I may have been busy!). Worth a read:

      http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/eurocrisispress/2014/09/15/foreign-reactions-to-the-referendum-in-scotland/

    86. donald anderson says:

      I could live very well on his pension and post truth annuities. The idiot doesn’t know when to shut up and the non dom tax evading meejah moguls still don’t a thing about Scotland, or care because they are immune.

    87. yesindyref2 says:

      Same.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/renewal-of-trident-could-hasten-end-of-union-says-expert.7953

      Dynamite. The equivalent of a Spearfish guided by wire, with the other end attached to a CASD boat and a strong spring.

      William Walker is well respected. RUSI, Chatham House, you name it.

    88. robertknight says:

      Jim who?

    89. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Yesindyref2 baroness Mone of Mayfair, & what do you do with a Fagend Stub it Out, he he shortlived elivation.

    90. Ken500 says:

      It is just unbelievable Lie after lie after lie. U turn after U turn after U turn. Contradiction after contradiction. Just to try and save their own skin. Are they really trying to rehabilitate Jim? One of the biggest high profile Liars. After voters gave him one of the biggest send off’s. Any attempt will will only put them further down the sewer. Like pigs in a trough. Rats in a sack. Do they really believe voters have such short memories. Thatcher is remembered for ever. Thatcher Mark two but even worse. @ReferendumTwa.

      Unbelievable. NO wonder voters will not vote for them. They have not idea for what they would be voting. Apart from malicious lies and total incompetence. (Fifty years of hard Labour). Especially With the smart, competent opposition. YES. Support for Holyrood and the YES vote just increases. Especially with austerity and the Tory policies. Killing vulnerable people in the UK and abroad. A pig in a poke, stroking a pig. Just unbelievable.

    91. Ken500 says:

      Mone is travelling around in a tax payer funded, chauffeured driven Jag and boasting about it. In times of Austerity when the Tories are killing off vulnerable, innocent people, at home and away. How long can this last? What a farce. Despicable. No one voted for her. What a waste of space, time and money.

    92. DerekM says:

      look is it a bird,is it a plane no its the eggy one smurph and his magic glue bag ascending like a burst couch.

      Go away Jim or dont you remember we sacked you.

    93. john king says:

      Nana Smith says
      “Much as I detest the man he has a young family.”

      I saw the pain in your eyes on Saturday Nana (btw it was an absolute joy to meet you and Mr Nana, he did have that long suffering look in his eyes that you would have seen in Irene’s 🙂 )

      Many of us have been where you are and your compassion for others is an everlasting credit to you,

      Its always worth remembering WHY we need our independence from these people,
      We are in danger,
      we are in danger of becoming them,
      they are in the processes of assimilation,
      we are the antidote, but an antidote is only useful if you inject a dose of what will kill you if it can,

      Lets save our compassion for the casualties created by those people who would do us harm,

      the compassion you radiate will eat you alive,
      you should show yourself some of the compassion you are so free with towards others.

      Let save our tears for the fallen until we win,
      which we most certainly will do!
      ________________________________________________________

      Mealer says
      “Jim Murphy? Pish.”

      Haha
      reminds me of one of my favourite Ian Brotherhood quotes
      when the Murphy spoke from his crates a “cry of pish rose from the crowd”
      Still makes me laugh now. 🙂
      _______________________________________________________
      galamcennalath says:

      Post means after. After the truth. Sorry, when was the truth? I missed that.

      You must have dozed off
      here it is
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeSJHXEahEg 🙂
      _________________________________________________________
      Marie Clark says
      “Nana I see you say someone has released the pigate photo on twitter. I understand your concern for his family, but he does not care about your family or mine, so hell mend him. But you’re right, someone wants him gone. Bigtime, but who?”

      How long have you got?
      ________________________________________________________
      Grouse Beater says
      “Failed politicians are automatically offered presenters jobs in television series, quoting passages from an out-of-date foxed railway manual while sucking wine in a train carriage,”

      The trouble is dammitall I like Portillos railway journeys
      does that make me a bad person? 🙁 (rhetorical question)

      Yes I know the man was a total twat in government and I just told Nana to save her compassion for herself, but I like the sod,
      there I said it!
      ________________________________________________________
      Cameron B @ 11.09
      It was nice knowing you buddy
      make it painless rev! 🙁
      ____________________________________________________
      David Smith says
      “Don’t worry about him, Nana;he’ll be fine. They always are…”

      I think there is an entrance into Westminster where as these people enter there is a wee room they’re taken into to have their shame gland removed,
      eg Malcolm Rifkind and Jack Straw!
      _________________________________________________________
      Nana Smith says
      “I’m a big softie David, my concern was for the children.

      The tories want the kind of society that stops people caring.”

      Precisely!
      That is exactly WHY we should suspend our compassion for our enemies (because that is exactly what they are)until we get our independence because the stakes are too great for us to indulge in a consideration for them which they would not (do not ) show to us, we are in such danger we must NOT lose sight of what this is about,

      Lets just remind ourselves we are doing this BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THEM, but we cannot allow ourselves the emotionally draining and wasteful indulgence of giving a shit for their feelings because they sure as hell couldn’t give a monkeys about ours!

      Hers a thing Nana
      just consider just how much compassion is Camoron showing when the only way he see’s to resolve the Syria crisis is to bomb the bastards, he couldn’t give a rats ass just how many children his “smart bombs” kill just as long as he chokes of the refugee problem before he is forced into doing the decent thing and man up?
      Sorry about the language Nana but that bastard just makes em see red when I see his absolute hypocrisy on tv telling the rest of the EU to follow the UK (Englands ) lead and chuck some money at the problem (in the fervent hope that it will go away)

      Here’s and idea Camoron
      STOP SEEING DROPPING BOMBS ON PEOPLE AS THE ANSWER TO EVERY PROBLEM YOU IDIOT!
      rant over.
      ________________________________________________________

    94. Gerry says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      24 September, 2015 at 4:49 am

      Same.

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/renewal-of-trident-could-hasten-end-of-union-says-expert.7953

      Dynamite. The equivalent of a Spearfish guided by wire, with the other end attached to a CASD boat and a strong spring.

      William Walker is well respected. RUSI, Chatham House, you name it.
      —–
      There does seem to be a creeping resignation to the reality that Scotland’s independence is an inevitability, and as you say, this guy is no slouch. The SLibdem and SLab U-turns over a free vote in indyref2 are also indicative of this.
      The inference in the article is that it could be argued that it is fiscally irresponsible for the UK government to invest heavily at Faslane, lest it becomes a rUK government. This is a compelling argument particularly for the english electorate, and one that will play increasingly well as acceptance of the inevitablilty of our independence increases. Westminster is throwing money down the drain and putting the future security of rUK at risk.
      Much as I want to see these obscene weapons banished the day we become independent, I remain acutely aware that they could well end up being an important bargaining chip that we hold in any potential negotiations in and about a transition period following indyref2. Encouraging stuff, thanks for posting it.

    95. Gerry says:

      John King says – reminds me of one of my favourite Ian Brotherhood quotes
      when the Murphy spoke from his crates a “cry of pish rose from the crowd”

      Brilliant.

    96. john king says:

      Im really sorry for the “industrial” language Nana but the agony I saw in your eyes on Saturday haunted me and just hardened my resolve to stay the course to stop people like you (who we dont deserve) from being eaten alive by this increasingly nasty fight,

      this country will need people like you to remind us what we were/are/want to be, when the fight is over and to help us to regain our humanity.

    97. Ken500 says:

      McTernan and Murphy totally defeated now attack the Labour Party and (per usual the SNPbaaad) McTernan and Murphy are closet Tories and uphold Tory principles. Why don’t they just join the Tories? The Tories won’t have them. Even those dead pigs shafters are not so daft. Totally unelectable. They should just trot along. Or form a totally new ‘What for Party? A majority of two A totally redundant party for lying troughers. Gies Peace. The electorate have totally had enough. There is only so much they can take or stomach of this crap. If these two clowns were any dafter they might would be dangerous, not a bundle of fun. Is Murphy’s tax free redundancy money paying for this? More wasted public money.

    98. Ken500 says:

      Sturgeon plays them like a fiddle. The Piper calls the tune.

    99. john king says:

      DerekM says
      “Go away Jim or dont you remember we sacked you.”

      Whats the betting he gets up every morning puts his suit on and gets in his car same as he always did and goes and sits under the Kingston bridge all day.

      Wee scone. 🙁

    100. Free Scotland says:

      “Post-truth politics?” That’s when people like us post the truth about people like Murphy and Dugdale on websites like Wings.

    101. john king says:

      Sandy Henderson says
      “I note A.G. Barr’s profits are down. Wonder why. Did he return the crates?”

      He’ll need them for collecting the skoosh bottle oot o hedges noo that he’s no goat an income like! 😉

    102. john king says:

      Arthur Thompson says
      “Nicola is the diametric opposite of Murphy. She is a star who personifies what I want our movement to be.”

      If I were being her critical of Nicola I would to see her stop pausing every few words and tilt her head for emphasis
      Its…kinda…annoying…Nicola,
      Its…also…a… trait…she…took…from… Alex… Salmond.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FMqUlf1lHk
      that is all.

    103. Finlay says:

      @Nana Smith
      I agree with John King. Your compassion is clear for all to see and though it is hard to choose what and when to feel, in this case, I would try and choose not to.

      Thinking of the kids. If anything; this whole affair might wisen them to the twisted echelon of society they have been born into. Maybe if they are ever faced with a similarly depraved rite of initiation they might have the wisdom not to partake.

      Throughout recent history, in the media age, many of the children of terrible people have had a tendency to feel the need to be extraordinary compassionate in order to make up for their heritage. Hopefully this is one of those cases and the humiliation of the father may be the saviour of his children.

      I am reminded of this article from earlier in the month.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34198967

    104. Ken500 says:

      EBBC/MSM will be disappointed the (‘magic’) (rugby) team they supported – Japan lost and Scotland won again. ‘It’s only a game’ – ‘Anyone but England, England, Engleterre? Barr barr barr. The only team in the UK or the world according to the over indulged pig shafters.’ Bias? What bias? Who’s complaining.’.

    105. john king says:

      Heres a guid ane
      the first sketch reminds me of a girl from the brass band I was in ordering single fish and saltnsauce in a chip shop in Motherwell after we had played at a contest there,

      I actually passed out laughing!
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLzOy8wlg0U

    106. john king says:

      yesindyrev2 says
      “She was also appointed a Tory peer in a move seen as a reward for opposing Scottish independence and supporting the Tories at the election. It is believed she will be known as Baroness Mone of Mayfair.”

      PLEEEASE TELL ME ITS A CENTERFOLD?

      eek brainfart!

    107. Free Scotland says:

      In case you missed it, Bannockburn won the BBC battles poll.

      https://archive.is/cK8QC

    108. Haggis Hunter says:

      What was it (Sir) Malcolm Bruce said again…oh aye, all Politicians lie, its normal.

      Does Murphy and Clown Brown think anyone is listening to their p!sh?

    109. Effijy says:

      The UK media and their elite masters seem to have mistaken the
      works of George Orwell as a manifesto or life style choice.

      George did get it the other way around with the Pigs in Animal Farm Screwing the workers.

      1984’s Double Speak seems to have manifested itself into Post-Truth.

      If Orwell was alive today the Tories would have burned him as a Witch,

    110. Nana Smith says:

      Good morning John, all you say is of course correct and I do rage and rant [thank goodness hubby has a shed to escape to]

      He’s the quiet one, his rage is contained.

    111. john king says:

      Free Scotland says
      “In case you missed it, Bannockburn won the BBC battles poll.”

      Jings!
      Aa wonder how that could have happened?

      Bein that there a lot mair o them than us?
      jist like the battle itsel eh?
      😉

    112. heedtracker says:

      Payback for yesterday’s incredible human rights speech.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/24/nicola-sturgeon-trade-union-bill-snp-labour-tories

      Sturgeon accused. England’s control of Scotland slowly but surely dying.

      “Nicola Sturgeon’s speech was described by the Liberty director, Shami Chakrabarti, as ‘an incredibly important intervention’. Photograph: Murdo Macleod for the Guardian”

      They are rather displeased with their Scotland region, explaining once again why its Lady Mone and not Lord Jim of Mayfair:D

    113. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      http://www.thenational.scot/news/renewal-of-trident-could-hasten-end-of-union-says-expert.7953

      Dynamite”

      I hadn’t looked at it from that angle before. Yes, it would be totally irresponsible for a UK government to pour billions into Trident when its basing at Faslane looks increasing on a shoogley peg.

      We believe independence is inevitable, and a certainty within the life of Trident2. I believe more and more people beyond our ranks are going to come to the same conclusion.

    114. Scott Borthwick says:

      I thought Murphy had quit politics. Is he re-inventing himself as an untouchable political commentator/spin doctor? Is there no way to be rid of these leeches?

    115. Ken500 says:

      There have been Independence Campaigns/Movement’s all over the world. The vast majority have been truly successful. The only way is up. ‘The tide is high people are holding on. They want to be the No 1.’ Uno – winners. People are routing for Scotland.

    116. heedtracker says:

      Yes, it would be totally irresponsible for a UK government to pour billions into Trident when its basing at Faslane looks increasing on a shoogley peg.

      And if a Trident nuke goes off say next to Greenock, or UKOK pig fancier of the year 2015 Cammers, pisses off the wrong guy for teamGB power and glory?

      When you hear the air attack warning
      You and your family must take cover

      Is there any cover? US and Russia have kept all their nuclear missile attack public shelters but today in teamGB, its all about Lord Jim.

      “We may not be able to count on Nigel Farage being an Alex Salmond – a useful, vote-losing villain – to help win this referendum.”

      Decades of BBC style monstering on Salmond and yet he’s now a rather popular Scottish MP in Westminster with a some very productive for Scotland years ahead.

      Lord Jim probably tries to block out that kind of real world shit in all kinds of ways, watching the BBC vote SLab Scotland creep show might numb the pain for a wee while.

    117. Pietro_McC says:

      Murphy’s not ‘mad,’ although he is obsessed – with boosting the cause of Jim Murphy. Just read his NS article and one thing that really stands out is how it is really all about Jim ‘YaBastard!‘ Murphy.

      Still, look on the bright side. The ennobling of moany Mone must have been a real slap on the face for the Bru crate Narcissus.

    118. Macart says:

      @John King and Nana

      Good first post John and I agree, we cannot allow ourselves to consider the establishment as anything other than an enemy of every free thinking, democratic soul in this country. They are consumers, abusers, a true black hole in society which consumes everything and gives nothing. They divide our society at will turning each against the other in turn to suit their own insatiable greed. People’s lives mean nothing to them and any damage they cause in pursuit of their own personal and political agendas deemed acceptable.

      Nana, nothing of what is happening in our politics or society is anything but painful and or heartbreaking by turns. Watching what others have been willing to do to their own in defence of personal agenda and a broken, abusive system especially, has been beyond disturbing in the past few years, but we’re almost home kiddo.

      The things we’ve seen and discovered for ourselves, the collation of information and dissemination of same by the dedicated folk on sites such as these, is disturbing. Not least because it happened on our watch, in our generation, our lifetimes. Our apathy allowed these monsters and their party thugs to get away with a great deal. Our engagement can and will damage them and hopefully break Westminster politics.

      Oh and by the by, being a softy is our secret weapon. Compassion isn’t a weakness, its a strength. 😉

    119. ronnie anderson says:

      Comment on Sky News.

      Voltswagon was ah trusted brand. What does that say about Westminster Politicians / Bankers / News Media /Journalists.

      System Feked perhaps.

    120. Ken500 says:

      Cameron should never have been PM. He was not vetted properly by the security forces. M15/16. Cameron is a security risk because of his deviant/criminal behaviour. He is open to blackmail. Cameron/Osbourne/Johnston are criminal crooks. They should be in jail. They are embezzling £Million/Billions of public money for their non elected associates, family and friends. That is why they are in politics to rob the public purse. Thry are illegally killing innocent people at home and abroad.

    121. Macart says:

      @galamcennalath

      As Alex said ‘many paths…’. 🙂

      Trident renewal under the current political and economic climate in Scotland would indeed be a sticky constitutional issue.

    122. Alan Mackintosh says:

      John King, I think the “cry of pish rose from the crowd” has its origin in the video of saviour Murphy. The one that was done in the neil oliver style. You mentioned an antidote in your comment above. Perhaps you should have a wee look to see what Pope Martin V had to say after the Battle of Bauge…

    123. Fiona says:

      @ Ken500

      He is open to blackmail.

      Don’t agree. You cannot blackmail those without shame and with nothing substantive to lose.

    124. Lochside says:

      The hallmark of a sociopath is the ability to never quit lying or manipulating the truth. That is why those such as Jim are incapable of recognising it even when it is staring them in the face.

      Jim is a loser big time,and because his sociopathy was allowed free reign by his masters, it backfired spectacularly when Scots saw through his preposterous irn bru act.

      More seriously, Jim and his dysfunctional pal McTernan are still being used, and obviously being paid to assail our intelligence at regular intervals.

      They say who pays the piper plays the tune…the question is who is paying for this psycobabble pish that Jim is pushing?

    125. galamcennalath says:

      Gerry says:

      “There does seem to be a creeping resignation to the reality that Scotland’s independence is an inevitability….. SLibdem and SLab U-turns over a free vote in indyref2 are also indicative of this.”

      Yes. It’s a spectrum. Scottish independence …

      unlikely
      possible
      probable
      inevitable

      … The entire world, after Indyref1, has now reached at least ‘possible’.

      Yes supporters now believe ‘inevitable’, the majority of Scots ‘probable’.

      What we are seeing, as you said, is “creeping resignation” towards ‘inevitable’. Indicators of this with become more frequent from the Unionist side.

      That is a strong position for us to be moving into.

    126. heedtracker says:

      Red and blue toryboys explain “illegally killing innocent people at home and abroad” as, the UK state is not going to keep you now.

      UKOK socialism for the rich, austerity for the poor, is never how likes of BBC propaganda sells it but Westminster City bailout cost £850 billion say http://www.nao.org.uk/

      UK banksters and money marketeers got richer and Lord Flipper of Darling not only saved the very rich in London, he destroyed Scottish democracy and that’s why he’s a Lord and unlucky Jim’s still stuck in cattle class.

    127. One_Scot says:

      The thing is about Scottish Independence, it is never ever going to go away now, the mere fact that we’ve had a referendum will always mean the first question in everyone’s head when they wake up in the morning is, ‘when’s the next one’.

      Every day from now until forever is going to be a battle for Scotland’s rightful place in the world, and each day that passes more and more people will find themselves on the right side of history rather than the wrong side.

      It is now clearly a matter of when rather than if.

    128. john king says:

      Alan Macintosh
      “The Scots are the best antidote against the English”

      Ha a case of keep you friends close but keep your enemies closer!
      the point about WHO said that “cry of pish ” of course you are right, memory like a hen
      worth another look
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afRE3RwLwaE

    129. Capella says:

      @ Nana
      An antidote for feeling that the odds are against us, the price too high etc.
      “Couage Pippin. Courage for our friends”

      http://www.youtu.be/Pis3veqKl8k

    130. Clydebuilt says:

      Great article……… So the Entire Labour leadership were right behind Murphoid’ campaign of Lieing to Scottish voters.

      It wasn’t just Murphy telling a lie, he was their leader in Scotland……..

      The Labour Party Lied To Scotland

      Dudale was Murphoid’s deputy, if she didn’t know he was lieing does that mean the current leader of Labour’s Scottish Branch is incompetent or culpable.

    131. Clydebuilt says:

      Should’ve been lying not lieing

    132. Capella says:

      OOPs – link not right – pesky tablet.
      Courage Merry clip here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pis3veqKl8k

    133. Giving Goose says:

      OT, sorry, but please check this out in the Independent newspaper;

      http://tinyurl.com/qacro24

      What we have here is man from Scotland, who sounds like a typical Loyalist, who has gone to Russia to fight on the side of the Donetsk People’s Republic against the Ukrainian Government forces.

      This man, known as the Tourist, mentions the situation in Northern Ireland as a comparison and a motivation for his actions.

      If there were ever an indicator of the completely sick Cult that is Loyalism in Scotland, then this is it.

      I do hope that Loyalists read Wings and I’m sure that you do, but as I mentioned in an earlier post on a different thread; when I read stories similar to this one in the Independent newspaper, I draw strength and I am even more determined to see Scotland achieve Independence.

      There is cancer within Scotland which manifests itself in different ways. Whether it be the corruption of the Labour Party or the violence of Loyalist Unionism, it has the same cure; it’s called Independence.

      I am sure that you, the Dependent Scot, the Unionist, the Loyalist see the world through a certain shade of spectacles, but let me assure you that the corruption, dependency, hatred or violence that colours your vision is an illness and we, your fellow citizens, are absolutely committed to applying the cure.

    134. Clydebuilt says:

      Capella
      My pesky tablet turned Dugdale into Dudale…….. It was me that turned lying into lieing

    135. john king says:

      “If I were being her critical of Nicola I would to see her stop pausing ”

      Dear god
      what I would do for an edit button. 🙁
      her=hyper
      I would LIKE to see her
      dammit.

    136. Desimond says:

      So for all the rumours of Jim Murphy having a private office in Sir Wullie Haugheys City HQ since “that resignation”, this is the end result?

      How fittingly disappointing.
      Still. he probably only has 9 months to wait for a Lordship, or a try at Scottish Labour Leader again, of GCC, or of course..a place on the £500m Glasgow City Fund committee….

    137. Socrates MacSporran says:

      AS I mentioned in a couple of posts on here, pre-referendum, my eldest daughter moved in the same social set as Murphy during his later years at Strathclyde University.

      She is adamant that, back then, in the days before Tony Blair, Murphy was so left-wing as to be almost Militant Tendency.

      Perhaps, should Jeremy Corbyn survive the efforts of the Blairites to get rid of him and Labour move leftwards on a longer-term basis, we will see a re-emergence of a more left-wing, suitably apologetic Murphy, attempting to re-establish himself as a serious political figure.

    138. Nicola has been given by the citizens of Scotland a mandate, through a democratic vote,to protect all the citizens of Scotland whether patriotic Scots or UK unionist Scots.

      If Nicola sees that the citizens of Scotland are being put in danger by the machinations of the government of UK,Nicola has the democratic mandate to declare Independence to protect Scotland`s citizens from harm.

      It is not just her right to do this it is her duty.

    139. Anagach says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:
      Murphy was so left-wing as to be almost Militant Tendency.

      Society is sprinkled with people who were extreme revolutionary communists at Uni and now tax exiles in safe havens. People in the elite decide if they will get rich ‘helping’ the rich or rich ‘helping’ the poor.

      I doubt there was any depth of critical thought applied at any stage before during or after the transformation.

    140. Eppy says:

      O/T I know but just been reading the link to the Daily Mail about Cameron worrying that if he lost the referendum, he would go down in history as the Prime Minister that lost Scotland and split up the UK.

      In the light of Piggate, I bet he’s wishing now that that was what he had been remembered for.

    141. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Jim, some advice son, get a life. It’s best for everyone.

    142. BigSteveChisholm says:

      How We Lost The Referendum Part 999.

      More notes from the Better Together playbook. When you’re on the ropes, call Her Majesty.

      Dave and a VERY frosty breakfast with the Queen: A Balmoral showdown and how the Scottish crisis left the PM terrified and humbled

      Gordon Broon = Loon

    143. G H Graham says:

      “No man will make a great leader who wants to do it all himself or get all the credit for doing it.” – Andrew Carnegie

    144. galamcennalath says:

      BigSteveChisholm says:
      “More notes from the Better Together playbook.”

      Ashcroft in the Daily Mail. There will be some truth in it, much guess work too I suspect.

      The tone will be spot on – Cameron would have realised a couple of weeks before the vote he could lose and have switched into panic mode.

      After his complete failure to build constructively on his win, no wonder he (and buddies) are permanently on edge about IndyRef2.

      Also, you can understand why the SNP, and AS in particular, find it so easy to wind them up on the issue! 🙂

    145. Jimbo says:

      Maybe Murphy thought the saying was “God loves a triad”.

    146. Dr Jim says:

      If Dim Jim’s fit for work why is Ian Duncan Smith Paying him a pension

      The amount of disabled folk who have since committed suicide because of being adjudged fit for work and had their support removed, and yet we have these Tossers parading around on Government Handouts

      Yesterday Osborne gave Three million quid to Chinese School Football, China! maybe one of the richest countries in the world and he writes them a Cheque for a game of Footy and at the same time removes disabled folks benefit and leaves them so distressed they kill themselves

      Oh, nearly forgot to congratulate Lady Mone on her nice new Government car, paid for by the savings made on the dead

      They were just commoners after all, so that’s OK

      New Tory Slogan: “Let’s kill folk and dine”

    147. Cadogan Enright says:

      Serious question.

      Who is paying Murphy and Mc Tiernan ‘ s wages ????

    148. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “A cry of “Pish!” rang out above the crowd.” is from “Jim Murphy Saviour Of The Union”.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afRE3RwLwaE

      And was featured on the page below, 9th April, 2015.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/history-tomorrow/

    149. heedtracker says:

      Jim will be delighted with Press and Journal post truth journalism today and their Sturgeon “accused” of the day thing is, “Sturgeon accused on North Sea job losses” which is actually just te usual sneaky creepy UKOK stuff from P&J, who leave out the bit where UK.gov taxes and controls everything North Sea oil and gas. Great days for post truthers in teamGB media land.

    150. john king says:

      Ahem BDTT
      me @ 09.16am! 🙂

    151. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I speed-read from your earlier post up to around 9, then jumped to the end!

      8=)

    152. Robert Peffers says:

      @robertknight says: 24 September, 2015 at 4:59 am

      “Jim who?”

      That, Robert, is perhaps the most insightful, relevant and intelligent post on this subject to date.

      My own impression was that this was Jim Murphy, returned from his wee holiday, dipping his toe in the water to test the political temperature.

      If Jim thinks the political temperature is fine he will dive in – if it is too cold he will return to the changing room and drink Irn Bru.

    153. Brian Powell says:

      heedtracker

      The Johnstone Press going down the tubes, but they need to keep it going otherwise the London press and Establishment would have no propaganda wing in Scotland, except the BBC.

    154. dakk says:

      I believe ol’ pterodactyl heid was merely in hibernation,and has now awoken refreshed with a sniff of Evo-Stik and a slug of Irn Bru to a brave new Post-Truth future.

      You can’t keep a good pterodactyl down.

    155. Quakeawake says:

      Dave Hansell, man and boy on your discussion about the neo-liberalist truth replacement project. What you are saying is the real truth!

      man and boy says “The key trick of neo-Liberalism is to camouflage crime in the clothes of Government and Commerce, while at the same time, through the media, to make populations believe that everything is as it should be.”

      For me, it was summed up, chillingly, in this quote:

      “You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

      Who said it? None other than George W Bush.

      It’s not even as if they’re hiding it.

    156. Iain Hamilton says:

      Post-truthiness, surely?

    157. Big jock says:

      This is why Labour are finished in Scotland. Telling the electorate what they are and what to think. Talk about facism:

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13779632.Frank_McAveety__Glasgow_is_not_a_nationalist_city_and_the_SNP_are_a_showbiz_government/

    158. heedtracker says:

      Brian Powell says:
      24 September, 2015 at 11:40 am
      heedtracker

      The Johnstone Press going down the tubes

      To be fair, Press and journal is merely a localised and pretty nasty Daily Telegraph in Aberdeen. P&J savaged Scottish independence toryboy style with royals etc, but they flopped badly trying to take down Salmond, May 7.

      As far as Press and Journal says SNP bad propaganda goes, the headers on their daily Sturgeon bad/accused today are bog standard text book stuff-

      “Sturgeon defends Scottish Government efforts on North Sea job losses”

      “Sturgeon shifts North Sea blame”

      “Its time Nicola Sturgeon stopped passing the buck” says Fraser Murdo or Murdo Fraser.

      Scotland, struck oil got poor, Scottish democracy monstered UKOK style with said oil. Who owns it?

    159. Sinky says:

      Big jock says: @ 12.42

      McAveety repeating the George Foulkes line from February 2008.
      “The SNP are on a very dangerous tack at the moment. What they are doing is trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.”

      BBCs Colin MacKay intervened to say: “Is that a bad thing?”

      Lord George said: “No, but they are doing it deliberately…”. LOL

      And Kezia Dugdale claims to be Baron Foulkes’s office manager / political adviser at the time.

    160. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 24 September, 2015 at 9:40 am:

      ” … what I would do for an edit button.”

      John, I noticed a while back that if the auto-spell-check is set to correct as you type, (or auto-correct), it seems to swither if it has wrongly guessed what you intend to type.

      If you don’t notice the hesitation and continue to type the pressed key letters don’t reach the page and you get results like you just described.

      If your browser has a setting to just correct the piece after you type it and, before you send it, it works much better.

    161. galamcennalath says:

      Quakeawake says:

      “You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

      Who said it? None other than George W Bush.

      That quote, which I have never heard, sums up the approach of Better Together and their Project Fear projected by the loyal MSM and BBC.

      Their problem is/was that ‘some of the people’ group is diminishing as they open their eyes and ears! Or, have them opened for them.

    162. katok8o says:

      Post truth Politics, that would be a Scottish Liberal Party MP then.

    163. Jack Murphy says:

      OT.Prime Minister’s visit to Balmoral 11 days before Scotland’s Independence Referendum.
      “The atmosphere over breakfast was strained as the Queen noted the headline splashed across a newspaper: ‘Yes vote leads in Scots poll.’
      For the first time in his political career, David Cameron’s equilibrium deserted him. It was Sunday morning, just 11 days before the Scottish referendum on independence, and he was staying at Balmoral for his annual late summer weekend with the Queen.

      What if the YouGov poll was right? How would he be able to tell Her Majesty that he’d managed to go one further than Lord North, who lost the North American colonies, and lost the United Kingdom itself?
      The enormity of it all simply overwhelmed Cameron.”

      Mrs Cameron’s hair started falling out!
      Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling also get a wee mention. 🙂

      Mail on-line:- https://archive.is/Y6eoz

    164. liz says:

      Spectator dirty tricks, publish date 26/09/15

      https://archive.is/vaQwc

    165. Robert Peffers says:

      Here’s one for the book. It comes from a BBC News webpage.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34346158

      Here’s a sample but read the full thing.


      A group of Labour MPs has published a “route map” for winning back voters in England, where the party performed badly at the general election.

      Ex-minister Liam Bryne, a member of the group called “Red Shift”, said Labour needed to embrace an English identity.

    166. heedtracker says:

      @ Jack Murphy, Cammers was scared and rightly so. Our Queen weilds absolute power, but like $80+ billion wealth, they play it all down. Also she can never be arrested for anything, so watch it. House of Lords will never become elected under this monarch or the next probably. Its all up to them.

      “It’s true that her role as the British head of state is largely ceremonial, and the Monarch no longer holds any serious power from day to day. The historic “prerogative powers” of the Sovereign have been devolved largely to government ministers. But this still means that when the British government declares war, or regulates the civil service, or signs a treaty, it is doing so only on her authority”

      When it comes to UKOK power, what does “true” actually mean?

      Nothing.

    167. Tinto Chiel says:

      Enjoyable posts today on Smurph today, which I have been catching up on. He baffles me completely, but, as some of this site’s resident intellectuals have pointed out, the Neo-Cons need to dispense with the absolute concept of truth by relativism, hence the term “post truth”.

      What is truth? said jesting Pilate but would not stay for an answer…

      Of course, David Icke could be right and Jimbo is simply one of the Babylonian Brotherhood: not quite sure which best accounts for the Irn-Bruser’s behaviour.

      BTW, was listening to PravdaSound4 while doing Mrs TC’s ironing. All about the approaching Wales v England rugby match. Summary: we Welsh love to beat England at rugby but we couldn’t possibly be independent (too small, not a big enough economy, we love this Union really, etc…..)

      Quite shameless, just like Smurph.

    168. peekay says:

      Free Scotland says:
      “In case you missed it, Bannockburn won the BBC battles poll”

      Yeah, you can bet whatever plan the BBC had for the glorious winner of that poll has been quietly shelved.

    169. manandboy says:

      WINGS AND THE SNP

      Wings over Scotland is probably the most influential political blog in Scotland. And the most educational.

      The SNP is the party of Government in Scotland and has an indelible and inseparable connection with Independence. It also represents the only constitutional route to Independence.

      But, there is a disconnect between Wings and the SNP. I’m reminded of the saying ‘divide & conquer’.

      Being a very intelligent community, I’ll assume you can work out the rest.

    170. manandboy says:

      With respect to your discretion, Stu, might I be so bold as to suggest that the saying posted by awakeaquake earlier be inserted in the website header.
      It is attributed to George W Bush, which if true is just amazing, and it goes:-

      “You can fool some of the people all of the time and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

      There’s a lesson in there for the Independence movement.

    171. manandboy says:

      That’s two in a row at lightening speed. This is heaven!

    172. manandboy says:

      In the Daily Mail serialisation of ‘Call me Dave”, published today, we are reminded of the state of panic which apparently gripped the Establishment. This would appear, if genuine, to place serious doubt against the idea that the postal vote was ‘adjusted’.

    173. gardennat says:

      Liz says@ 12.04
      This is disgraceful.Why can’t they spend their spare time pleasuring themselves with dead animals like normal people.

    174. manandboy says:

      I’ve just read that 717 people have been killed in a stampede at the Hajj pilgrimage near Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Hard to take that in. God help all those people there.

    175. Giving Goose says:

      Read Smurph’s piece and it is obvious where Smurph sees himself in the political landscape.

      He’s an agent against change, working for the London Establishment.

      His words are actually quite empty; he’s actually saying nothing very much and what substance is there can be summed up by the phrase;
      “Change is Bad”

      Smurph speaks of the SNP and Corbyn in the same breath; they are one and the same in his eyes, both threats to the Established Order, of which he is a fully paid up, participating member (there’s a joke there about “member” but no need for me to go there as you all know what I mean lol).

      There has been speculation surrounding Smurph and his possible connections to the CIA and when you read his piece it does make you wonder.

      I can well imagine classes held in some CIA campus where dozens of Smurphs are taught how to say nothing much at all but just enough that the content defuses any thoughts of meaningful change among their future intended audiences. These multiple Smurphs are churned out by the CIA production line, sent back to their countries of origin and told to do Uncle Sam’s bidding.

      Even the Blairite pish that we heard from the recent Labour leadership contest was of a different order from the stuff coming out of Smurph’s mouth.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Smurph has a handbook (US Langley edition) that instructs on how to phrase meaningless poison designed to mask a hidden subtext.

      When you take this and sit it alongside the revelations from Ashcroft that Wee Duggie Alexander, another prominent Labour politician who spent a lot of his formative years in the USA and was a part of the core Better Together campaign, and their close ties to David Cameron, then you do begin to wonder.

      It’s interesting that Smurph resurfaces with the same mantra, different target. It’s Corbyn now. If it’s not Corbyn, it’ll be someone else perceived as a threat. I suspect that Smurph identifies with the fact that he’s a busted flush in Scotland but his skills will be valuable to someone. You just need to look at how McTernan is still in a job. He’s a failure but someone is looking out for him, so clearly his poison is still viewed as a marketable commodity, just like Smurph and probably Alexander.

      Watch as Alexander resurfaces in the near future with a message of “Change is Bad”. His handlers have invested to much capital in him and his buddy Smurph to see it go to waste.

    176. Cammy says:

      Surely that’s a great day for irony???

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      @Gerry and @galamcennalath
      Walker has underlined the problem for the UK Government, and it’s not one they can answer, not on their own. They would indeed have to consult the Scottish Government, not just now, but when Indy Ref 2 is announced. They would need to pre-negotiate, the thing they didn’t do last time.

      In that other paper I linked to, Walker highlights the problems with stability for the rUK and Scotland, and that negotiations would have to be effectively cordial and productive for both sides, as the rest of the world would be quite worried.

      Meanwhile Salmond plays it exactly right, I’m sure his resignation on the 19th last year was pre-planned in the event of a NO. He hits the button of “Independence is inevitable”, and every time he does it makes Westminster uneasy, brings the sweat out on their brows. Because I think they realise too, that Independence is inevitable.

      The UK Gov were sure they’d win the last Ref and in the event they did. Being sure of that victory they threw everything at Scotland, threats, blackmail, lies, sheer badness.

      I think next time they will need to have a very different game plan, accept that they will probably lose the Ref, adopt a more friendly approach and pre-negotiate on such as currency and debt – and Trident.

      The question is, will they have the sense to do that? Or will they make a spitroasted pig’s mouth of it again, same as they’re making a pig’s bottom of the UK’s International Relations!

    178. Onwards says:

      Jack Murphy says:
      24 September, 2015 at 1:44 pm

      “How would he be able to tell Her Majesty that he’d managed to go one further than Lord North, who lost the North American colonies, and lost the United Kingdom itself?”
      ———-

      I suspect Scotland is seen a bit like the last colony to many Tories and the purring Queen.
      Never mind Ma’am, There’ll always be an England.

    179. Ruby says:

      “You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.”

      That is such a good quote! It sums up exactly what I think Kezia Dugdale is up to.

      Every time I read comments about Kezia Dugdale I wondered why people were even bothering to read or write about what she says.

      I’m assuming she is an intelligent person so it must be that her act is all just a way of conning these people who can be fooled all of the time/people who hear what they want to hear. It seems she isn’t bothered about people dismissing her as a fool as long as her con works on her target audience.

      As far as Jim Murphy is concerned I’m about as interested in what he has to say as I am in what Kezia Dugdale, Michelle Mone, Katie Hopkins, Alan Cochrane, Willie Rennie has to say however I am interested in the ‘power of media manipulation’ and the effect their words have on others.

    180. Valerie says:

      Murphy continues to provide mirth for us, and decades of study for psychology students everywhere. He truly inhabits some secret universe of his own imagination.

      I have great regard for you, Nana Smith, but I feel zero sympathy for Cameron and piggate, and potential impact on his children. This is the man who drags his dead child out to protest his love of the NHS, whilst his minions sell it off, and is hated by a huge portion of NHS staff. Cameron is the man who withdrew funding from the Med rescue efforts last year, containing more children to death. Cameron won’t sign up to EU quotas for refugees.

      If I was a child of his, I’d be more concerned at the legacy this govt is creating.

      That wee dead pig has served democracy well by giving us commoners an outlet, and a chance to hit back. Maybe some of middle England that are in the Tory thrall will have a think too.

    181. Ruby says:

      Apart from the headline in the Herald the Frank McAveety article is a bit boring/vacuous. Perhaps he was concentrating on other things when he wrote it, perhaps the heat was getting to him!

      ‘A Scottish MSP stepped down after being caught on camera lusting over a “dark and dusky” girl who turned out to be 15 years old.

      Frank McAveety was inadvertently picked up on TV ogling a girl in a public gallery of the Scottish parliament in June 2010.

      Speaking to his committee clerk, the married former Scottish culture minister was heard to say: “There’s a very attractive girl in the second row. Dark and dusky.

      “We’ll maybe put a wee word out for her. She’s very attractive, very nice, very slim.

      “The heat’s getting to me. She’s got that Filipino look – the kind you’d see in a Gauguin painting.’

    182. Gerry says:

      @yesindyref2 353

      I agree, the UK establishment were so sure of victory that they hadn’t worried about making any contingency plans for the event of a positive outcome for Scotland. Goodness only knows how Cameron would have described the situation in private briefings in the few weeks before the vote. Remember, this is the guy who described Corbyn’s election as a threat to the nations security. I wonder how he described the prospect of the break up of the union and what lengths the establishment went to in order to negate the need for their non existent contingency plans. I imagine using any and all means necessary was the order of the day.
      The pre indy negotiations should be starting now, and not just with the UK govt. Businesses like ASDA and RBS should be asked to publicly clarify their position given an independent Scotland now. It would be interesting to see whether the apparent resignation to our nations independence has reached the upper echelons of the business world yet. It would be good to have a statement from ASDA in particular, given outwith the chaos of an indyref campaign.

    183. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      I think next time they will … accept that they will probably lose the Ref, adopt a more friendly approach and pre-negotiate … The question is, will they have the sense to do that? Or will they make a spitroasted pig’s mouth of it again….

      Hopefully, one or more good trigger events, combined with polls saying Yes, will convince everyone that IndyRef2 is likely to actually go Yes.

      The Imperialists in London have two choices – fight as hard and dirty as they can manage, or accept the inevitable and go through the motions in an orderly and well mannered way.

      You know? I couldn’t even guess which way they’d go. Centuries of disengagement from their Empire have been littered with stupid behaviour and delaying when their status and prestige is challenged.

      Ideally pressure internationally and in particular within the EU, will encourage London to play straight if Scotland shows a clear democratic wish to move forward to self determination. But who knows!

    184. schrodingers cat says:

      ot soz rev

      http://www.commonspace.scot/articles/2508/robin-mcalpine-how-we-win-next-time

      this is a follow on from some discussions we had btl over the last few days

      robin talks sense I believe

    185. Stoker says:

      NEWSFLASH – The new Director in charge of the BBC in Scotland is set to make swooping changes to meet cutback targets. Among those rumoured for replacement are top earners Jackie Bird and Radio Scotland’s Louise White.

      Jackie Bird.
      https://archive.is/xch3x

      Louise White.
      https://archive.is/zAk9h

      The dastardly Director was unavailable for comment but RT have managed to source a photograph of the new man in charge.
      https://archive.is/EuU8o

      Meanwhile – Wee Dougie Does Dallas!
      https://archive.is/nMzuc

    186. Dr Jim says:

      It might not be that long until Osborne gets rid of Cameron and that’s Cameron’s payback for being too soft on Scotland
      He should have laid it on the line to Jockistan, you get nothing England is in charge

      The revenge of the Tory Grandees is to see Osborne as their man in Westminster and set the Jocks straight no sucking up to those Holyrood sweaties get them dealt with,get the fear going

      Which is perfect for us don’t you think

      Soon friends, Soon

    187. yesindyref2 says:

      @galamcennalath
      The UK does have a record of unfair fights, right up until it loses. I think for Indy Ref 1, as soon as a YES vote happened better relations would have ensued, both sides would have worked to an amicable settlement, and the excesses of the UK campaign would have been ignored. But that might not be the case next time, a resumption of Project Fear from the UK Gov might not go down well this time.

      Almost the same for the EU and other international entities, they will see the polls currently neck and neck, and presumably YES ahead next time. They might realise their interests are better served with friendship, rather than attempted bullying.

    188. yesindyref2 says:

      @Gerry
      Yes, I think next Ref the YES or ScotGov should ask big businesses to make their position very clear at the beginning. Rather than waiting for them to pick their time for maximum effect like a few days before the actual Ref, the ScotGov should force them to speak out – at the beginning.

      Just got SPAM from the Herald in spite of having my account set to “no marketing at all”. They’re really getting desperate, and ignoring DMA guidelines.

    189. yesindyref2 says:

      @schrodingers cat
      I can’t be bothered watching people speak I’m afraid, it’s 10 times quicker to read a summary or transcript. But I agree with Doug Daniel’s comment – we need to listen to NO voters, not come out with our own theories.

    190. Lollysmum says:

      yesindyref2
      I just got the same spam email from the Herald. They’ve combined their mailing lists as I only registered with the National & now don’t even bother with that.

      Not because I don’t like it, I do but purely because I just don’t have the time to sit & read a paper. Lost the habit years ago & just can’t get back into it again.

      The ‘usubscribe’ link is very useful at times & this was just one of those occasions 🙂

    191. yesindyref2 says:

      Before I forget, sorry Rev OT yet again

      One reason for NO was not wanting change. But change happens anyway, and YES need to point that out. Perhaps a simple slogan such as:

      “Change happens, it’s inevitable. Do you want the Scottish Government to control it in the best interests of Scotland, or let the UK Government keep control in the best interests of the UK as a whole, of which Scotland is just a small unimportant part?”

    192. yesindyref2 says:

      @Lollysmum
      Ah, thanks. It didn’t work for me, but my security minded email software is set to view text, not html. Viewed it as html, clicked and there you go.

      I daresay I’ll get a response in due course to my earlier reply to them saying my account is set to no SPAM, so why am I getting SPAM?

    193. galamcennalath says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      One reason for NO was not wanting change. But change happens anyway

      Simply getting almost everyone talking and thinking was a big change. As was decent turnout.

      Despite Yes being the obvious agent for change, much of the change we have seen has been WM initiated, and not always intentionally!

      The indyref campaign began with BT telling us this was to be status quo versus separation. Their position has moved massively from that. Both towards us with more power offers, and away from us with EVEL.

      Then there’s the aftermath and GE. The landscape has changed completely. Once we get Holyrood out of the way we see some clarity. Things will have become polarised and any middle ground of Fed/DevoMax will be dead and buried, killed off by WM.

      I expect by mid 2016 Scottish Unionists will be ineffective and/or neutral – it will be between Scotland and Tory WM.

    194. Balaaargh says:

      Jim?

      Jim who?

    195. schrodingers cat says:

      soz ot

      these guys are struggling for funds but have been stalwarts in our fight, please help if you can
      they deserve our help

      http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/super-app-more#/story

    196. Rock says:

      heedtracker,

      “Cammers was scared and rightly so. Our Queen weilds absolute power, but like $80+ billion wealth, they play it all down. Also she can never be arrested for anything, so watch it.”

      But aren’t we Scots “sovereign”?

      Like we can politely tell the purring Queen we no longer want you to be “Queen of Scots”?

    197. heedtracker says:

      BBC Scotland news teatime with Sally Magnuson straight in with SNP bad, Sturgeon accused jugular. If Pacific Quay vote SLab hysteria gets any more hysterical, well can they really force Scotland to vote SLab again?

      Scottish nationalism bad, English good, if you’re O2. No doubt O2 did a Scotland version, for the bettertogetherness of teamGB.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXppMqUVMYE

      Holy fcuk.

    198. Paula Rose says:

      @ Balaaargh – he used to be a crate man, now he just grates.

    199. Stoker says:

      Nicola Sturgeon calls Rennie & Dugdale’s bluff when she asks them to join her in a call for a second referendum vote.

      Both crap themselves and tell Sturgeon to concentrate on SNP’ record in government.

      Nicola, you naughty naughty person!

    200. Eckle Fechan says:

      Oh excellent. I’ll look forward to reading what he has to say, and to wiping my arse afterwards with the NS pages, post-dump that is.

      He’s like a bad penny.

    201. schrodingers cat says:

      ok dads, ill summarise it for you

      we don’t win during a yes campaign, we win it before
      we don’t need independence to have a constitutional convention, we can do that now
      we need to address our failings from yes 1 and redress them and publish wbb2 well in advance of any ref being called so that the ideas within are familiar to yes and no voters alike

      we don’t need a no campaign or a date for indyref2 to launch the yes2 campaign now?

      I liked blair Jenkins but I didn’t think he set the heather alight, if we were to crowd fund and elect our own yes2 leader, we would get to chose who it was and launch yes 2 ourselves….

      personally, I quite like robin macalpine, but am open to other suggestions ?
      Lesley riddoch
      tommy Sheridan (the cat ducks for cover….)
      alan bissit
      etc
      🙂

    202. Thepnr says:

      @schrodingers cat

      A certain Reverand….

    203. schrodingers cat says:

      dads….
      Perhaps a simple slogan such as:

      “Change happens, it’s inevitable. Do you want the Scottish Government to control it in the best interests of Scotland, or let the UK Government keep control in the best interests of the UK as a whole, of which Scotland is just a small unimportant part?”

      slogan=sluagh-ghairm=battle cry

      um, cant we have something shorter?
      eg
      Tha mo bhàta-foluaimein loma-làn easgannan :0

    204. Del says:

      Apparently Corbyn is to British Labour, as Murphy was to Scottish Labour: a destructive force and completely unelectable. A bit of pot calling the kettle black in Murphy’s latest brainfart?
      Except, ironically of course, Corbyn has a bit more backbone than Murphy ever had.

    205. Hamish100 says:

      See a double pronged attack by the BBc ( pretendy Scotland ) tv station. Quotes at length anti science anti everything snp in relation to GM Crops quoting pro labourite Prof Nigel Brown https://mobile.twitter.com/nl_brown at length, then they attack FM re NHS in Scotland. Labour given free reign again by the labourite bbc.

      Judging by the prepared video it was a set up well before FMQ’s even started.
      How did the bbc foresee the topics to be discussed?

    206. yesindyref2 says:

      cat – all sounds good to me and I agree – thanks.

      For YES leader I’d kind of like the stuc’s Grahame Smith, but I kind of think that’s unlikely in his current circumstances 🙂

    207. Ghillie says:

      Of course an egomaniac like Jim Murphy was going to shove himself into the limelight again at the earliest safe opportunity…perhaps when the population had begun to forget…

      Does he really think four months is the half life of the voters’ memories!?

      Oooh. Big mistake Jim.

    208. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmmm, “Change with Holyrood, or Change with Westminster. Your choice”.

    209. schrodingers cat says:

      the pnr

      the rev….id go with that, im not sure he would though
      wos strength lies in the rev not being tied to anything, snp, ssp, ric or yes etc, it gives him the freedom to say whatever he likes and not toe any party line

    210. galamcennalath says:

      @schrodingers cat

      Or even

      El meu aerolliscador està ple d’anguiles

    211. Richard anderson says:

      @schrodingers cat

      I think the good rev does a fantastic job so, for his sins, I’d keep on keeping him on the ball where he invariably is.

      Me, I fancy that there is a retiring editor somewhere who has also shown a huge commitment to the cause and wonder if he would be the correct person.

      You would need to gain the support of RIC, WFI, the SNP, Greens and any other entities that exist (including the existing Yes groups)
      I’ve been contemplating the need for a Yes crowdfunder (except I’m sure we need a catchier name for a future campaign). My guess is that you would need significant rolling funds to establish an operation that propagandises at home as well as building bridges with the sympathetic expatriate community. To bring someone in that could hold the gig together, raise additional funds, schmooze the various groups and develop an activity programme that exploits opportunities to advance the persuasion of waverers and the cause of independence would take a starter of £100k including offices and costs IMO

    212. starlaw says:

      Going by todays ‘First Ministers Questions’ Labour and the BBC were clearly in ‘cahoots’ re. subject material, I wonder who decided the subjects and when.

    213. Reviresco says:

      Tonight’s Reporting Jockistan was nothing more than an unashamed concerted assault on Scotland’s government. (Normally I don’t watch, but wife wanted to catch weather). They have cast aside any pretence of impartiality; or even subtlety. I had to leave the room before I vomited. Surely any right minded souls watching must see this for what it is.

    214. Effijy says:

      alerie says:
      24 September, 2015 at 4:04 pm
      Murphy continues to provide mirth for us, and decades of study for psychology students everywhere. He truly inhabits some secret universe of his own imagination.

      I have great regard for you, Nana Smith, but I feel zero sympathy for Cameron and piggate, and potential impact on his children. This is the man who drags his dead child out to protest his love of the NHS

      I understand that Cameron, back in the days when he was only worth £35,000,000, chose to have his son treated on the NHS as opposed to using the odd spare £million to use the finest Harley St doctors and private hospitals to speed up and improve his treatment. He also needed a mobility vehicle with free road tax.

      How many of you would rather save your pennies than give your sick child everything that you could afford?

      PS Did you see Cameron’s face when asked if he would give any of his recent pay rise to charity, like the SNP MP’s?

      No way the Plebs are going a brass farthing from this man!

    215. Onwards says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      24 September, 2015 at 5:40 pm

      One reason for NO was not wanting change. But change happens anyway, and YES need to point that out. Perhaps a simple slogan such as:

      “Change happens, it’s inevitable. Do you want the Scottish Government to control it in the best interests of Scotland, or let the UK Government keep control in the best interests of the UK as a whole, of which Scotland is just a small unimportant part?”
      ———–

      Yeah, If we could distil that into the perfect YES/NO referendum question, it could reframe the entire debate.

      I didn’t really like the indyref question. On the plus side it was simple, but on the minus side it could play into a secondary meaning of isolation.. standing along..

      If you focus it on where power is, then I think voters are more inclined to say yes.

      The best I can come up with is these:

      1. “Should the Scottish Parliament take control of the political powers currently reserved to the UK Parliament ?”

      2. Should Scotland govern itself as a sovereign country?

      3. Should Scotland govern itself as a independent country?

      I like #2 best, but maybe not enough people know what sovereignty means.

      So even for #3, just the slight change to ‘govern itself’ enhances the existing question – making it clear it is about political control, not simply going it alone or being independent.

    216. Papadox says:

      The English Broadcasting Corporation (EBC) Anti Scottish Propaganda Unit has thrown down the gauntlet to the people of Scotland. Only mention of Scottish Government or the SNP is when there is some supposed exposure with Kezia foaming and running off at the mouth, no sign of anyone from the other side to even up the usually totally false shit the EBC & SLAB have concocted. No holding back now EBC IN FULL WE HATE JOCKISTAN.

      THe SNP are either ignored by the EBC or they are being hung out to dry with no right of rebuttal.

      The daily politics has dropped the pretence, only the four “major” parties have access to this Establishment megafone, the tollies, labour, Libdems and UKIP! No other minor parties allowed.

      The feart proud Scots shuffle along with their heads bowed in submission and clutch their pension book in case the Establishment take it off them.

      And the English tolly Establishment scare the life out them.

    217. Lochside says:

      For an example of ‘POST TRUTH’ try watching last night’s ‘Reporting Scotland’….risible distortion and omission of salient facts by ‘our’ broadcaster..all aimed at the SG and the SNP.

      Operation ‘FEAR’ is in full swing on there, concerning the Police, the NHS, the ban on GM crops etc. all presented negatively by usual suspects e.g Glen ‘I ripped up the SNP manifest on live tv’ Campbell.

      All talking heads were SLAB or anti-SG and all responses by our government were talked over or ‘summarised’ by said suspects. So there you have it: continuing suppression of the facts by the BBC…AND UNCHALLENGED.

      What can be done?….and don’t give me the old knee jerk about ripping up my licence and /or not watching….all the ‘No’s are watching and absorbing…and without challenge will continue to believe.

    218. chris kilby says:

      Jim Who…?



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