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World Irony Championship runner-up

Posted on November 17, 2015 by

jbdr

Of course, that particular problem is easily solved. All the SNP needs to do is decide NOT to offer an alternative, at which point one will magically be created out of thin air.

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    1. 17 11 15 13:44

      World Irony Championship runner-up | Speymouth

    298 to “World Irony Championship runner-up”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      Hot air balloons can stay aloft a long time before losing height and drifting into trees.

    2. Jock Scot says:

      Time to cut her food allowance at Holyrood and offer no alternative.

    3. handclapping says:

      I know I have a larger brain than most but even it cannot get round the concept of Jackie Baillie righting wrongs. Please offer an alternative.

    4. Macart says:

      That hypocrisy thing fair gets about right enough.

      Somebody should tell her that the money will be found when the money is looked for… or something, something, something.

      She’ll understand that.

    5. galamcennalath says:

      Have the Labour regional lists for 2016 been published?

      Please tell me Jackie Baillie isn’t high up on the list!

      She can’t be in the top 3/4 slots with a chance of being elected, can she?

    6. heedtracker says:

      Whether or not Alex Bell is right makes no odds really. The truly repellent thing about him is there is no right to reply to any of his fury anywhere, across the whole of the UKOK red/blue toryboy media.

      BBC vote red toryboy Scotland propaganda leads the charge, as usual

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34837167

    7. Socrates MacSorran says:

      Puir big Jackie – she’s had more second prizes than Celtic.

    8. Jimbo says:

      The Labour Party stopped the SNP being able to offer one alternative when they voted against devolving Tax Credits.

    9. MolliBlum says:

      It’s doon the back o’ the sofa, Jackie. Ah’m sure it is. Tak’ a wee neb there.

    10. Andrew McLean says:

      Oh Jackie Jackie,
      not the brightest are you, been swimming lately?

      http://www.medicaldaily.com/stupidity-virus-lives-peoples-throats-crosses-over-algae-lakes-310234

    11. dakk says:

      ‘Puir big Jackie,she’s had more second prizes than Celtic’

      Bit harsh.

      I believe she’s won the West of Scotland heavyweight pie eating contest 10 in a row.

    12. Famous15 says:

      Alex Bell must have a book coming out or he wants his old job in the BBC back again.

      Loved the photo the Record used. Poor Alex when he was young and “hansome”.

    13. Macca73 says:

      After the referendum it’s said that more of us have been turned onto politics like never before.

      You wonder if they hear themselves saying this stuff. Worse still, if people are out there lapping this stuff up then they must have buttons on the backs of their heads!

    14. Capella says:

      Surely the alternative to Tory cuts is – no Tory cuts?
      Surely not renewing Trident is an alternative to not feeding the population via a living wage?

      It’s a quantum world in SLAB where several realities co-exist. By staring intensely at a chosen reality it materialises and becomes real.

    15. Fred says:

      An alternative might be scrapping the spending of £170 billion which Jackie Baillie enthusiastically supports spending on Trident, hopefully thereby saving her seat. How many tins of Brasso would that neck take?

    16. McBoxheid says:

      It might be magically created from thin air.

      The chances are higher that it will, than Labour voting against a Tory policy.

    17. crisiscult says:

      if someone is in the SNP, let’s be very critical in our reading of what they say; if they are ex-SNP, let’s make sure everyone knows this fact so we can be very critical in our reading of what they say; and finally, if someone is ex-SNP and slagging off the SNP, let us question no more because the truth has been discovered (regardless of the area of that particular ex-SNP’s area of expertise).

    18. Susan says:

      Someone needs to tell Jackie that we did have an alternative to Tory cuts, it was independence. She is just thick!

    19. Andrew McLean says:

      Macca73 says: 1:31

      yes that’s why the newspapers and the BBC are doing so well in the ratings war, Oh wait the main reaction is ” I smell Shite”! Jackie I have news for you that may shock you more, your own party had the opportunity to be part of the solution but sat on their arses!
      I read somewhere that the police are looking for a ned who shat down the lumm of a house, funny it reminded me of when I used to get the Herald through my letterbox!
      I also read that 3% of SNP supporters oppose independence, I didn’t realise the security service had so many undercover operatives in our ranks.

    20. Who needs enemies when you have friends like Alex bell.
      I thought we had heard the last of him when he left the SNP.

    21. bobajock says:

      Its akin to these imbecilic Branch Officers saying the SNP can do nothing because the UK has a noose around its neck, and its dangling from the London Labour built gallows.

      Meanwhile, the crowd looks on at the ever diminishing Labour Branch Office officials, those weird LibLiars, and the Greedy Ones.

      The man who inspires them is just another ‘not good enough’. Perfect for Labour.

    22. Murray McCallum says:

      Fingers and toes crossed that Jackie Baillie is the next leader of the North British Labour branch office.

      People warm to her honesty and consistency. She is the candidate the separatists fear.

      🙂

    23. galamcennalath says:

      Baillie ignores what her party vote for in WM.

      Does she conveniently forget so she can play the SNPBad game? Or, does she not have a clue what is going on with own party?

      Hard to tell, isn’t it?

    24. caz-m says:

      Is Jackie Baillie the best Kazia Dugdale could come up with when she said in her acceptance speech that she will have a younger, more forward looking dynamic team, who will win back control of the Scottish Parliament from the SNP.

      As far as I can see, NOTHING has changed, it’s more or less the same team Gray, Lamont AND Murphy had.

      Well maybe something has changed, Scottish Labour’s poll ratings are even worse than your predecessors were.

    25. Luigi says:

      Will someone please explain to the branch office and their corporate media backers that simply shouting “SNP bad” several hundred times is not going to win an election. You actually have to come up with a vision and some meaningful policies of your own.

    26. caz-m says:

      Re: EX-SNP member Alex Bell,

      “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”

    27. Clootie says:

      “…at the heart of the SNP’s campaign for separation”

      I thought he was part of the YES campaign for Independence.

      Rev

      Loved the comment below – so sharp!

      “All the SNP needs to do is decide NOT to offer an alternative, at which point one will magically be created out of thin air”.

    28. DerekM says:

      jings crivvens and help ma boab would somebody please tell the Labour halwits we are not the SNP.

      Hello calling outer space Labour dead heads this is the electorate calling do you remember us hello hello ?

      No i didnt think so cut off again.

      You would think they would remember a wee thing like getting reduced to 1 single MP and record breaking swings ah well lets do it to them again and have a party while we are at it.

    29. Bob Mack says:

      Ms Baillie, Mr Bell,and all the rest ,ignore one simple fact. The English have controlled the revenues of Scotland for years and have created an accounting system to reflect that control.
      Everything is well hidden by experts in the field,who have had ample assistance from their stooges placed in Holyrood i,e,Labour,Tories and Lib Dems.
      I wish there was some way to independently dig into the real accounts for Scotland.

    30. galamcennalath says:

      Luigi @ 2:05 Weesht! 😉

    31. McBoxheid says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      17 November, 2015 at 1:47 pm

      Macca73 says: 1:31

      I read somewhere that the police are looking for a ned who shat down the lumm of a house, funny it reminded me of when I used to get the Herald through my letterbox!

      OT sorry, but couldn’t resist.

      Reminds me of a joke.

      A guy in the pub said that he’d been in the park today and got a bit of Daily Mail stuck on his shoe. It was a bit annoying he said, but there was plently dog shite about to wipe it off with.

    32. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 17 November, 2015 at 1:57 pm

      “Does she conveniently forget so she can play the SNPBad game? Or, does she not have a clue what is going on with own party?

      Hard to tell, isn’t it?”

      Nah! Baillie is not so daft she doesn’t know the truth. She just can’t help herself lying about it. The woman is a pathological liar.

      The great difference between a compulsive and a pathological liar is that Pathological liars lie, with malicious intent. This is because they need to manipulate people for their own selfish ends and they are aware they are lying.

      Compulsive liars, on the other hand, lie from sheer force of habit. These latter have become liars from habit, to the extent it becomes second nature.

      Baillie is not a compulsive liar she is, without doubt, a very deliberate pathological liar. She’s just not very clever with it and only those who also know she is lying profess to believe it but they know she is telling porkies.

      BTW: Ms Baillie isn’t overweight because she overeats. It is a bit like the Pinocchio syndrome but instead of her nose getting bigger it is her girth that gains inches.

      Sae noo ye ken.

    33. Robert Peffers says:

      @caz-m says: 17 November, 2015 at 2:08 pm:

      “Re: EX-SNP member Alex Bell,

      “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”.

      I’ll correct that wee error for you, caz-m.

      “hell hath no fury like a wee man scorned”.

    34. manandboy says:

      Alex Bell’s piece is just the dregs out of his stomach. He is a rejected angry man who made a bad mistake in July 2013 by confusing himself with another Alex, the FM, and then by leaving the SNP, and is now paying the price. It was all the fault of Alex Salmond you see; he made him do it.

    35. Pam McMahon says:

      So, deid advisor talks to deid newspaper? It’s all getting a bit “Voices from the Tomb” here.

      Just watched David Cameron at PMQs justifying “targeted” bombing in Syria without legal backing and dodging UK’s selling of weapons to Saudi Arabia.

      Time to stop trowelling the archaeology of Alex Bell and the Scotsman, and start listening to the new Corpses-in-Waiting who are being lined up by Westminster and their allies in the West. That’s all of the rest of us, by the way.

    36. manandboy says:

      O/T From elsewhere.

      Horrific though the deaths and injuries of those attacked in Paris by IS were, do not imagine for a second that IS is now top of Westminster’s to-do list.
      No, the top spot is retained by the Independence Movement, and specifically the SNP Scottish Government, which remains the constitutional key to Scotlands’ Independence, which in turn, remains THE biggest threat to the Westminster Establishment and the continuation of Imperial power and wealth.

      Unionist logic is stark and simple: Independence for Scotland spells THE END of The Establishment. Therefore it cannot be allowed to happen.

      Westminster’s strategy is to beat Scotland into submission – have you noticed? This includes the two million mugs who thought the English were on their side and voted No. They will be sacrificed so that England may live on.

      The current hostilities between England and Scotland will only end either with Independence, or with the abolition and bulldozing of the Scottish Parliament.
      There is no Plan B.

      Islamic State is a nuisance to Westminster ; in London, Scotland is the REAL enemy.

      To the two million still unaware of what is actually going on, please wake up, come to your senses, and give yourself a good shake.

      Then vote SNP/SNP to protect Scotland.

    37. dunderheid says:

      Brilliant…so the SNP position on having no alternative to tory cuts is to point a finger at Labour and whine:

      “Well they don’t have one either…”

      Such an inspiring message…

    38. galamcennalath says:

      dunderheid says:

      “Well they don’t have one either…”

      … please supply a link to where the SNP have made this their position.

    39. Andrew McLean says:

      Dunderheid 3:32
      Could write you a long list but let’s start with the obvious

      INDEPENDENCE

    40. Kevin Evans says:

      Hi,

      Labour in Scotland’s problem is they haven’t realised a good half if not more of the Scottish electorate has woken up from its “vote red” slumber.

      Labour in Scotland are still playing the political game of 10 years ago. They have no ability to change. Labour in England seem to at least have an idea things need to change but unfortunately for them it’s going to rip them apart.

      Jackie Bailey is just programmed into labour vote for me because I wear a red sticker.

      She is not politically programmed to make good decisions lol – her political thinking is “too small, too poor and too stupid”. Pity the same can’t be said about her. She’s too big. Too rich thanks to her nose in the troff but she’ll never escape that she is just too stupid.

    41. Luigi says:

      manandboy says:
      17 November, 2015 at 3:27 pm

      O/T From elsewhere.

      Horrific though the deaths and injuries of those attacked in Paris by IS were, do not imagine for a second that IS is now top of Westminster’s to-do list.
      No, the top spot is retained by the Independence Movement, and specifically the SNP Scottish Government, which remains the constitutional key to Scotlands’ Independence, which in turn, remains THE biggest threat to the Westminster Establishment and the continuation of Imperial power and wealth.

      Nah, we have been put back in our box for now. No referendum in sight, which is all they were worried about. Cameron does not see us as an immediate threat, and he thinks he can prevent indyref2 happening on his watch. 56 SNP MPs is seen as a nuisance, but more for Labour than the tories.

      On the other hand, An IS attack in the UK would almost certainly lead to Brexit, and that is what he is really worried about. Scotland just isn’t that important, and won’t be until the next referendum comes a knocking. The tories just don’t think that far ahead. We voted NO by a huge majority [which gets bigger in unionist memory as time passes!]. They will continue to underestimate us until it is too late.

    42. manandboy says:

      Luigi, I agree with you on the basis of ‘immediate threat’, which forms no part of my case, but since my point is made in the understanding of Independence as the ‘biggest threat’ I shall keep to my opinion.
      As for the second paragraph, I can’t subscribe to any of it.

    43. HandandShrimp says:

      Scottish Labour where austerity on adjectives bit hard many years ago.

      It is astonishing how much extraordinary 😉

    44. Training Day says:

      It must be said that Bell sounds nothing like an embittered no mark whose ego got the better of his abilities and is now looking for a cosy slot as a shill in the corporate MSM.

    45. Luigi says:

      Manandboy, 2nd para is a but jumbled – I’ve fully not processed this developing theory yet, but with the euroref coming soon, immigration, terrorism, jobs etc, all kinds of nasty issues are going to take centre stage. It will be Project Fear on steroids. The tragic events in Paris have made people easier to scare about europe/immigration etc. If something happens in the UK, we may well end up out of Europe. UKIP and the euroceptic tories will use everything and everything to support their cause.

    46. Dr Jim says:

      As soon as you start a sentence with Jackie Baillie says,
      That’s the end of the sentence really

      Je suis an immoral fool

      Ever noticed how unpleasant Willie Rennie is when he thinks he’s got handers #cowardly wee shite

      SNP/SNP End of, In all respects

    47. Thepnr says:

      Jackie Baillie can rest easy, her pal George Osborne is on the case after announcing that there will be 1900 new recruits to MI5, MI6 and GCHQ.

      She believes the spooks will keep us safe, along with Trident of course.

      The most interesting part of the Osbourne speech is that the UK will be recruiting their own “child soldiers” to assist.

      “There will also be new efforts to encourage 14- to 17-year-olds to develop their cyber skills and opportunities for startup companies to innovate in cyber technology at two new “hubs”.”

      https://archive.is/1v9Zt (no comments allowed obviously).

      Great! I now live in the type of country I thought only happened in Ian Fleming books. The type that right now want’s to read all my email, track every website I visit and basically monitor everything I do. And it is recruiting children to enable them to do so. Over the moon.

      Terrorism is an evil, there is and can be no doubt. My personal problem is with the terror that this country brings to those in Iraq and Afghanistan in my name.

      Terror is terror, no matter the perpetrator. This country has to accept it’s fair share of the blame for the responsibility of atrocities.

    48. Dr Jim says:

      Wee message for the Troll people:

      Lest we forget Tory policy that the SNP have no alternative to “A pound spent in Croydon is better than a pound spent in Strathclyde”

      When will the lights come on in your Fukcing heads

    49. Andrew McLean says:

      Dr Jim

      I have noticed how unpleasant wee willie is this weather, wonder what his problem is?

    50. msean says:

      There is indeed an alternative,but Labour would rather live under the tories than do it.

    51. galamcennalath says:

      Wee Willie Rennie’s problem …

      Could it be that he knows his political career is almost over?

      A LibDem winning a regional list seat? Nae chance.

    52. gordoz says:

      Aye … Alex Bell in no way a column by the spurned aide.

      Yesterdays nobody ….. tumbleweed rolls by Holyrood.

      Scottish media, faux shock ..

    53. Andrew McLean says:

      Maybe but I thought it was no backhander from the No camp, God even the bra queen got a gong why then no Lord Rennie or has he been told he is just not in that league?
      Well no wonder he sounds so peeved!

    54. Gary says:

      Talk about being to wee and too stupid lol

    55. gordoz says:

      Alex Bell … Loose cannons tend to get outlive their usefulness and get let go.

    56. heedtracker says:

      There is indeed an alternative,but Labour would rather live under the tories than do it.

      Red toryboys like the below just want to get back their right to reign over their Scotland region. It makes little or no odds to them who is No.10. Red or blue tory UK, Scotland forever under SLabour control. All the SLab MP’s that got kicked out of Scotland last May, genuinely believed they had jobs for life.

      SLab still own big councils but look at how low they can go. If they keep calling SNP or YES voters Nazis, will that work?

      eg

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks Nov 15
      I don’t like comparisons with Nazis, but this is inspired work from @BrianSpanner1 on @WingsScotland & @kevverage:

    57. chossy says:

      He said the same thing in july 2014.

      As soon as poll data comes out in favour of SNP or indi. the MSM roll out a couple of stories aimed at levelling any ambition.

    58. Ruby says:

      Unionists love the Alex Bell article however they don’t seem to be donating to his crowd funding appeal.

      I suppose the Unionists are well served by the media and they don’t need another online magazine.

      Weird that the MSM who are in big trouble financially have given him so much publicity when his aim is to steal their customers.

      He might be better off trying to get The Scotsman, The Telegraph etc to pay him for his articles.

      I wonder if the MSM stubbled across his blog or did he approach the MSM to offer them an SNP Bad article?

      SNP Bad articles are very saleable!

    59. Karmanaut says:

      I suspect Jackie Baillie is a sociopath.

    60. Marcia says:

      Choosy

      You are correct. It is getting to be like the BBC. Full of repeats. He will no doubt say the same next year.

    61. Onwards says:

      Training Day says:
      17 November, 2015 at 4:28 pm

      It must be said that Bell sounds nothing like an embittered no mark whose ego got the better of his abilities and is now looking for a cosy slot as a shill in the corporate MSM.

      I read his article and there is a fair point about the need for commissioning more research.
      The main difference between 2014 and now is the lower oil price, but that actually helps in other ways.
      And of course there would be some short term challenges in the transition period, but I don’t think anyone every denied that.

      But the principle economic arguments for independence are just common sense. The more control we have over our economy, the more opportunities we have to grow our economy.

    62. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dunderhead your well named. For one the Rev is not a spokesperson nor even a voter for the S.N.P. And second , one S. N. P . Policy which I subscribe to which will alleviate Tory cuts is Independence.

    63. Rob James says:

      Jackie Baillie runner up? The only thing she can run up is a large bill at the bakers.

    64. galamcennalath says:

      Onwards says:

      “The more control we have over our economy, the more opportunities we have to grow our economy.”

      … but also not pissing away our money on WMDs and foreign wars.

      … and, when it comes time to negotiate and divvy out the shared assets, I have little doubt much will be traded off against debt. Scotland would not have to finance anything like the per capita levels of the U.K.

      It only gets better, not together.

    65. heedtracker says:

      Without the BBC Scotland crew’s relentless vote SLab stuff, would they be even more unpopular. Its definitely getting cranked up, BBC says vote SLab wise

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34837027

      Labour has said all council care workers would be paid at least £7.85 an hour if it forms the next Scottish government.

      Free hourly BBC says vote SLab campaign material across national radio, tv and online but how to pay for pay rise? No one asks or asked.

    66. Iain says:

      There we go a new troll, what a great surprise! The 77th will really up their game if they are going to save the empire.

    67. Bob Mack says:

      The thing about Alex Bell is that he knew and agrred with the SNP plans prior to the referendum.
      Now suddenly these plans can never be credible.

      I think Alex is basically a mercenary whose opinion goes to the highest bidders wishes
      Oh well. A man has to earn a crust wherever.

    68. Grouse Beater says:

      As predicted, the Tories have finally found their excuse to drag us into another conflict and increase aggression. It’s their signature policy. The mass surveillance will also be pushed hard.

      No voters ensured we have no say in the matter, nor veto. We are left to hope 56 MPs will make their presence felt.

    69. David says:

      Alex Bell used to work for the BBC. The oh-so-neutral (hah!) BBC, wanting an ‘SNP Bad’ article, turn to their ex-employee, who is willing and able to stick a metaphorical knife in Salmond’s back.

      Oh yes, and nobody-who-used-to-be-somebody Bell is starting up a magazine, and looking for donations. Lucky for him that the BBC put a link to it in their article.

      “You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours” was never so apt as in the cosy, internecine world of Scottish media/Scottish Labour/anti-SNP circles.

      Forget Bell’s new mag, buy “iScot” instead. Started by a Winger, Kendo, so you know it’s good!
      iscot.scot/

    70. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      “Without the BBC Scotland crew’s relentless vote SLab stuff, would they be even more unpopular. ”

      Definitely. If the state broadcaster had been impartial, then we would be looking forward to independence! And, if they hadn’t bolstered SLab, they would have gone the way of the LibDems in Scotland.

      All this just fuels my enthusiasm that IndyRef2 will be won. Here we are – CorpMedia, biased broadcasters, Unionists, WM, active trolls, ongoing ProjectFear, ongoing BetterTogether for that matter – and despite all that we have the SNP in a strong position and two poll of polls saying 50:50.

      And, here’s my reason for enthusiasm … YesScotland2 has not even begun!

      Last time grassroots and multiple organisations took us from 30% to 45%. We begin at 50%. Just think what happens when the campaigning kicks off!

      The Imperialists have fired all their ammo, we’ve seen and heard most of it already, and we are ready to begin afresh.

      All we need is an SNP majority in May, followed by a bloody good excuse.

    71. schrodingers cat says:

      who’s alex bell?

      come to think of it, who’s Jackie Baillie?

      prediction, shortly after she loses her seat in Dumbarton next may, a consultancy position in the caucases will miraculously appear from no where

      usual fate for slabbers determined to make a fool of themselves in public

    72. galamcennalath says:

      https://archive.is/hjDkT

      “Boko Haram overtakes Isis as world’s deadliest terror organisation”

      … now there’s a thing.

    73. Paula Rose says:

      This might interest anyone looking for a job…

      http://tinyurl.com/pugzzxe

    74. Macart says:

      @Grouse Beater

      They’ll do what they can Grouse, but up against a Conservative majority and a belligerent Labour group hell bent on fighting themselves and everyone else?

      It’ll be a tall ask.

      People were warned before the referendum of the dangers of a long term Conservative govt. Those warnings were ignored and now we’re looking at extended austerity economics, snooper legislation, a ‘British’ (see under Tory) Bill of rights and the sidelining Scottish representation in Westminster.

      Just what part of this horror show is the ‘Better Together’ bit?

    75. Nana says:

      O/T

      The tory gets the last word as always…

      The Scottish Government has said there is no area of UK policy in which it does not have a legitimate interest and has demanded greater transparency from and influence over the UK Government.

      https://archive.is/NMCt1

    76. yesindyref2 says:

      I think the main point is that Alex Bell was not “at the heart of the SNP’s camoaign for separation”, he either left or was sacked in 2013.

      Yet again Jackie Baillie skirts the truth and then decides to totally ignore it.

    77. David McDowell says:

      Spot the deliberate error in this photo caption from the Guardian:
      “Nigel Farage will also claim the EU is imperiling Britain’s security because of the risk of migrants posing as terrorists.”
      Hilarious stuff!

    78. heedtracker says:

      Just what part of this horror show is the ‘Better Together’ bit?

      EVEL was spectacularly buried, Scotland bill, UKOK stashed away under anything at all, all in space of a couple of weeks. Scotland could be a nation state, instead of a mere region perpetually reigned over by red and blue UKOK unionist toryboys.

      Wonder who else boosts Alex Bell, whoever he/she is

      http://www.capx.co/scottish-independence-is-dead-admits-former-salmond-aide/

      “Now, more than year after Scottish voters rejected independence to shreds, Bell has now torn it to shreds, declaring that the SNP idea of independence is dead. Just at the point when the party is dominant electorally, the economic case is a goner, he says. It was always a stretch; now it is an outright fraud on the Scottish electorate.”

      No mercy then from Bell or the extreme British hard line right.

      Its a bit odd how these UKOK cringers grovel to England though, on one hand, you’re all a pack of immoral lying fraudsters and nazis, on t’other, you’re all a pack of bums on the take from English pockets.

      Alex Bell, Confused.com:D

    79. Papadox says:

      Well, well, well. As far as HMG is concerned every cloud has a silver lining! Cameron has his cover to murder more poor innocent Muslims. Is that the reason for wanting to send all the refugees back to Syria, more targets?

      How many millions of innocent people have been killed at the behest of HMG, FRANCE, ISRAEL &
      The good old USA. HMG with her colonial pal FRANCE mapped out the Middle East after WW1, the Great Satan was watching in the background awaiting their chance to take over the boss of bosses when good old Great Britain was unable to hold its empire together.

      The poor innocents of these countries are sacrificed to the demented terrorists who have been used and abused by the west since they discovered oil. Prior to that the Turks brutalised them for 400 years. However the two countries in the Middle East who are held up by the gleesome threesome as the model of freedom and democracy, Israel & Saudi Arabia.

      Things are so twisted by Uncle Sam et al that they have to form a line to get their turn to bomb somebody somewhere to keep on the yanks good books.

      Jaw jaw is better than war war, at least for the normal ordinary people.

      Welcome to a wet Scotland to the Syrian refugees hope alls well now.

    80. Dr Jim says:

      The Yoons get themselves one wee Toerag of man who hasn’t been anything to do with the SNP for years pay him a couple of quid to say stupid stuff and then hit the airwaves and presses with ecstatic and orgasmic joy over the once again predicted demise of Independence and the SNP

      Sort of ironic when that’s what happens to the Yoons EVERY day and who’s demise actually IS happening, but do we crow

      Yes we fukcing do ,we don’t have to wait and pray for their stupidity, because with the Yoons EVERY day is fun day, especially at the Labour Fun Factory of Funny Facts and Fictitious Fallacies

    81. JLT says:

      This is all tongue in cheek from Baillie. She knows fine well that the SNP don’t have to do a single thing to oppose the Tories. After all …as Sun Tzu says in the Art of War‘never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake’.

      So why would the SNP try and negate the Tory cuts? After all, to try and negate the cuts is in one sense, helping the Tories implement those very policies. Labour would have an absolute field day at First Minister’s Questions over that!

      So, nope …let the Tories apply their vicious cuts while holding the Scots in contempt. Sure it can be perceived as ruthless and even insensitive by the SNP, but this is politics, and for anyone who has been watching this Westminster game versus Scotland for years ….it’s also very dirty. This is pretty much Machiavellian tactics going on here, and the SNP are quite right to use them. As said …that’s politics!

      Jackie knows fine well what the SNP are playing at. What’s upsetting Jackie is that the SNP just won’t oppose the Tories at all. Well tough Jackie! After all …we could have opposed the Tories a year ago and truly got rid of them …but Jackie and her SLAB crew decided to get into bed with them, cosied up, and then lied and put the fear into the Scottish people in a determination to keep us as part of the Union.

      As they say, Jackie …you reap what you sow …and the Scottish Labour Party (if not UK Labour) are sowing the whirlwind. Oblivion awaits all those in Scotland who got into bed with the Tories a year ago …tick tock tick tock

    82. Croompenstein says:

      OT – Germany – Netherlands international cancelled..

      https://twitter.com/NewsOnTheMin/status/666696432112541696

    83. velofello says:

      i read/plodded through the Alex Bell article, unrequited SNP personal progress seemed to be the undertone. His opinion, nothing much else by the way of substance to support his opinion.

    84. Gfaetheblock says:

      I hope the FM doesn’t read the below the line comments here, the derogatory personal comments about a female politician’s appearance would surely leave her dismayed.

    85. heedtracker says:

      https://twitter.com/Effiedeans

      UKOK types very very hysterical today, over one very long term unemployed blogger first vote NO or else thing too. They won, why can’t they get over it etc?

      Hope Bell does get some money out of it all and his new magazine Rattle makes it big, which it will, if the half a dozen or so ecstatic UKOK unionists tweeting excitement is anything to go by. Holy christ.

      The end is nigh for you YESers, vote Red and blue tory, you deluded Scottish region fools!

    86. ian m says:

      If Labour are not going to reduce airport taxes with hopes of increased flights to offset the current revenue and help against WM taxation
      Are they saying that they will use the powers of the Scotland Bill to tax some other area and if so why has no one asked directly which new power will they use and which segment will be most affected

    87. heedtracker says:

      Alex Bell seems like a really nice guy/girl and maybe he does know what its going to be like when we didn’t vote YES but if we had, we would now be bust and so on.

      In balance though

      “Scotland can make investments in tidal energy, or in its young people; it can strive to increase female labour-force participation and provide for early-years education – both essential for creating a fairer society. It can make these investments, knowing that the country will recapture more of the benefits from them through taxation.

      Under current arrangements, while Scotland bears the cost of these social investments, the extra tax revenue resulting from the additional growth from these investments will go overwhelming south of the Border.”

      That’s a Noble prize winner and this is what far right UKOK thinks of him

      http://www.capx.co/joe-stiglitz-is-talking-rubbish/

      “Is there anything as poisonous to rational debate as the tossed-off opinions of a half-informed Nobel laureate? The halo effect of the prize ensures that everything its recipients say thereafter is taken as gospel, even when they’re talking codswallop.

      Take Joseph Stiglitz, the eminent former chief economist of the World Bank and chairman of the US president’s Council of Economic Advisers.”

      Its a UKOK toryboy world. We just live in it somehow.

    88. galamcennalath says:

      OT Drone strikes. Came across this, almost a year old, but ..

      “Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the deaths of an estimated 1,147 people”

      https://archive.is/PS5WG

      Warfare kills innocent people, simple. And, the killing of innocent people has become a weapon in itself … Universally.

    89. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, from his crowd funding:
      “alexmassie 1 month ago £70GBP”

      Allmediascotland which he apparently co-founded was/is quite a good resource all the same.

      (Rattle – presumably as in rattle cages) “with the promise of publishing work by writers of the calibre of Neal Ascherson, Kevin Pringle, Isabel Hilton, Chris Deerin, Ruaridh Nicholl and Malcom Fraser.”

      I reserve judgement, it’s not his fault the media picked him up on an anti-SNP / indy bit, though I daresay if he’d planned it to get maximum publicity for his new blog, he couldn’t have done a better job.

    90. ScottieDog says:

      Key to whole argument about Scotland going bust is currency.
      Yes Scotland could go bust if it had to rely on paying debts in a foreign currency ( the pound) and thus there would be tight constraints on deficit spending. This is what is happening in Europe with the stability growth pact.

      Scotland as issuer of a Scottish pound as a floating currency (like Iceland has), could never default.

    91. Ken500 says:

      Some folk will say anything to get in the paper to get notice. Insignificant and bitter comes to mind. The Unionist ploy. A few backhanders and a patsy. From paper tiger to paperback. A fuss and bother about nothing.

    92. heedtracker says:

      Warfare kills innocent people, simple. And, the killing of innocent people has become a weapon in itself … Universally.

      But you’re not looking at the economic boosts of war for UKOK.

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/02/watchkeeper-drone-uk-military-delay-over-budget-investigation

      “A decade on, it currently stands at £927m. A defence spokesman explained that this includes some additional costs such as the deployment of the trio of aircraft to Afghanistan. A report by the Major Projects Authority published in June reveals that the estimated cost of achieving full operation is now £1.2bn.”

      All of that £1.2 bn has been spent on or in high tech factories near Cambridge.

      Tasty. Unless toryboy world picks you as the test target, somewhere hot and far enough away to not retaliate.

    93. David McDowell says:

      “Asda Sales Slide As It Slips Into Third Place”

      My boycott is working!

    94. Dr Jim says:

      All opinions favouring Scottish Independence must be stopped no matter how well informed, they definitely are not welcome in Yoonionist Scotland

      It’s time for the cult Separatists to stop all this nonsense now, the Yoons will only tolerate this behaviour for so long before they get fed up with it, and then they’ll start changing their insults from Extremists and the like to Terrorists

      Funny how the Yoons are always accusing us nasty separatists of Racism and being Insular when it’s them who go about threatening everybody who doesn’t agree with them

      We’re doomed if we want self determination, we’re doomed if we let Refugees in, we’re doomed if we want to join the EU and we’re doomed if we don’t,

      I think the Yoonies just can’t really get on with anybody they can’t bully, of course they have a mile long history of Bullying all around the world, but wait…countries don’t let them do that any more do they? They kicked them out of every one of their Yoonion Flaggy colonies one by one…….Next

    95. Alastair says:

      OT
      Can anybody tell me why STV is showing England v France at football?

    96. Ken500 says:

      The Eurozone is no going bust. It has more credibility than the sterling or the $Dollar. Greater reserves, less debt and more balanced economies than the UK/US.

      The Scottish economy is on par with Germany but with less reserves, because Westminster secretly and illegally took them. Westminster could not do that if Scotland was Independent. It is the Union terms, condition and Westminster policies which hold Scotland back not using the same currency. 27 countries share the Euro and the majority are doing fine. The difference is Scotland has thrived better with it’s own (limited) Parliament. With Independence policies to growth the Scottish economy would be more successful. Scotland could still be successful in the Eurozone and meet all the conditions. Businesses, holidaymakers and travellers would not be constantly changing currency, with added charges. The Eurozone has a central bank which bankrolls the currency.

      The intention was only to keep using £ until Independence and then let the people decide. i.e. greater Democracy. IR shared the £ for over 50 years after gaining Independence and thrived and continued to thrive after it joined the Euro, compared to being affiliated and misruled by Westminster. ‘The Celtic Tiger’.

    97. Ken500 says:

      M & S profits have fallen 20%.

    98. john king says:

      “Asda Sales Slide As It Slips Into Third Place”

      My boycott is working!”

      Jesus!
      how much is YOUR weekly shop?

      gaun yersel Davie boy. 🙂

    99. Glamaig says:

      OT but a wee positive snippet
      A few weeks ago I emailed the producer of a certain food product to complain that they had recently started decorating their packaging with union jacks. I said I really liked their product but I would have to stop buying it as I didnt want union jacks plastered over my shopping. I said a majority in my city voted to leave the UK last year and alot of people might have a negative view of union jacks in this part of the world.

      Maybe its just a coincidence but I see they are now UJ-free 🙂

      Its always worth complaining folks so get to it!

    100. Legerwood says:

      Alastair @ 8.25 pm

      Auld Alliance perhaps?

    101. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      “But you’re not looking at the economic boosts of war for UKOK.”

      … and everyone else ….

      http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/17/3723107/weapons-paris-profit/

      Now that, is really scary!

    102. MolliBlum says:

      Glamaig says:
      17 November, 2015 at 9:01 pm
      OT but a wee positive snippet…

      Well done Glamaig! My “british basil” and “british coriander” and “british parsley” pots with their UJs have been driving me nuts lately… I always cut off the top section with the flag just to tone down the ueber-unionist window display a little, but the worst was when I recently spotted a nice bag of Maris Piper tatties “grown in Fife”, oh nice, I thought… just a 20minute drive from my home… how good for my carbon footprint! … but didn’t notice until I got back to the flat that they, too, were “british potatoes” (emblazoned with the UJ, of course). Sigh. And let’s not even get started on “british beef”.

    103. ArtyHetty says:

      Re; Glamaig and Molliblum

      O/T

      yes I noticed the union flag has now disappeared from one or two products I buy, god tehy are soo insecure, the britnats.

      I was getting tired of having to get the permanent pen out all the time, pathetic but it drives me to distraction. I draw the line at buying Scottish produce with a britnat flag on it, must keep an eye on that! Grrr.

    104. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Odd how the press and the Labour Party mention the uninspired and slightly odd Alex Bell, thankfully an ex adviser to Alex Salmond and seem to have forgotten that First Minister Jack McConnell’s senior adviser is standing for the SNP in Carrick,Cumnock and Doon Valley in May.

      Thankfully the SNP doesn’t do puerile personalised political name calling

    105. Glamaig says:

      Molliblum

      And no Scottish lamb in Sainsburys any more…. its british lamb with UJs. So Ive been buying the NewZealand stuff but I feel bad about that as the ‘british’ lamb is probably Scottish…

      Get your complaints in, it might just trigger them to look up their stats and notice a wee unexplained dip in sales of ‘british’ lamb/basil/coriander in a couple of Scottish cities and put 2 and 2 together 🙂

    106. Dougie Bee says:

      Two bags of Brittish Baby Potatoes..from Tesco’s..both grown in Berwickshire by the same farmer

      One with the Scottish flag..Variety Maris Peer

      The other with the butchers apron..Variety..Jester

      Dougie..the tattie gobbler…

    107. john king says:

      Re Union flags on produce
      I got tired of the union flags on Fife and Angus strawberries in the summer and lo next few weeks the same producers sudenly selling their strawberries in Tescos have saltires on their packaging,
      cynical,
      playing each side against the middle,
      watch yersels guys,
      we’re watching you!
      I’ll buy the Spanish neeps if yer no careful.

    108. Kenny says:

      On the subject of irony…. the SDL…. who would rather die than fly the saltire, I think (although thank the lord they don’t).

      The SDL… who hate the idea of Scots running Scotland and whose worst nightmare would be the sight of the saltire flying outside the UN building in New York.

      I saw these monsters on RT, I am afraid, demonstrating against refugees in Monkton… All of them with their face covered… Refugees, people who have come to make Scotland a richer and (given their qualifications) better country. Yet the SDL would rather Scotland was kept forever in the Dark Ages and, thus, on the same economic level…

      So the irony award must go to the SDL… who despise everything Scottish and Celtic!

      If England invaded us, how much defending of Scotland would they do?!?

    109. louis.b.argyll says:

      Aye, some right idiots out there..

    110. Col says:

      A coincidence that reporting Scotland are running with the story of new refugees plus a story about housing shortages?
      No f#cking chance!
      They dropped any sensitivities regarding their output to deliberately Stoke up anger today. They truly are scum on our airwaves. They have no shame, none whatsoever!

    111. roughian says:

      Glamaig.
      If they can show lamb as Welsh for sale in Scotland then they can show Scottish Lamb just as easily.
      I’m not wanting to be restrictive in what is sold I just want the customer to be able to make a choice. (Scottish Lamb is at it’s best in autumn) Just saying!!!

    112. Robert Peffers says:

      @manandboy says: 17 November, 2015 at 3:27 pm:

      ” … The current hostilities between England and Scotland will only end either with Independence, or with the abolition and bulldozing of the Scottish Parliament.”

      Ah! One wee flaw in that prognosis, manandboy. It is that a Parliament is the elected membership and the bricks, stone, wood and mortar are components only of the Parliament building. As Robert Bruce proved beyond doubt – you can hold a parliament anywhere.

      You cannot extinguish an idea whose time has come. This is why all peoples who have won their independence have succeeded. The only ones who did not succeed were wiped out by genocide and I’d bet the EU, UN or even NATO would not wear a Westminster attempt to kill off our entire nation.

    113. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ken500

      It’s not only the UK which has 3 times its reported debt. The U.S. are at the same accounting trick by not including future liabilities in their reported National Debt. I understand that the EU countries use a different accounting system which does include future liabilities such as public sector pensions on their books.

      Brown claimed that he would move the UK to the same accounting system as the rest of The Euro countries but this never happened. I was in the States last week and RT reported that an ex senior U.S. treasury official claimed that the National Debt of the USA was three times the reported debt of $18 Trillion . I.e. $54 trillion if they included future known liabilities such as public sector pensions.

      As you seem to be knowledgable on financial matters, could you confirm that I am correct in above. You certainly don’t read about it in the msm.

    114. Thepnr says:

      Regarding Alex Bell.

      Why would he come out now with his moaning shite? Was he really an advisor to Alex Salmond or a wolf in disguise. Suppose we will never know for sure but he definitely looks VERY tainted to me now.

      I mean. who would have thought that Nick Robinson, the very impartial political editor of the BBC would ever tell a porky? Not me for sure. Now though, I’m certain he is just a liar that will say ANYTHING if it serves his political masters. It’s in the National today that he met Cameron twice just weeks before the referendum but not the SNP.

      Watch the video, if you have no idea what I am talking about. Whether you support Independence or not, you should watch this. It’s a clear case of how they rule us. No Joke.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHmLb-RIbrM

      Red or Blue? I am TRUE to those that pay my wages and I went to school with. Sweaties can get tae, that’s how Bell is reacting.

      Personally I don’t listen to a word these talking heads have to say. Trust Nicola Sturgeon and trust Alex Salmond.
      The GB government are great at bullshit, in fact brilliant at divide and rule.

      Awaken, we are not ignorant and need to push back.

    115. louis.b.argyll says:

      Desert Storm 3, this time we mean it?

    116. Robert Peffers says:

      @dunderheid says: 17 November, 2015 at 3:32 pm:

      “Brilliant…so the SNP position on having no alternative to tory cuts is to point a finger at Labour and whine:

      “Well they don’t have one either…”

      Whatever gave you the quaint idea the SNP have no alternative to Westminster cuts. I say Westminster cuts for the Tory administration have been consistently supported by the other unionist parties.

      The plan is to have an independent Scottish parliament that runs Scotland’s wealth of resources in a proper manner and that include NOT subsidising England as we have done since the Treaty of Union.

      If we do not pay the Westminster assessed and overinflated share of their debts, do not pay the excessive Grid Connection charges or send the entire Scottish oil & gas revenues to England.

      If we do not subsides the likes of the New London Sewage system, the refurbishment of all London bus and rail terminals or the new HHS rail links or the London cross-rail system and the 1001 other little identifiable schemes that Scots pay for but get no benefit from. Scotland would be well in surplus.

      So, unless you can prove none of those things I mention do not penalise Scotland you are talking utter rot. I look forward to your detailed proofs.

    117. Thepnr says:

      Well nobody said it’d be easy. Nick Robinsons response broadcast to the nation, not just Scotland the UKOK nation. on BBC1 news. Liar!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2iJwGbGTTA

      Never forget.

    118. INDEPENDENT says:

      Haven’t had time to read all the above today.
      Sarwar what a chancer!!

      Ps A good read from Mark Frankland look at munguins republic

    119. heedtracker says:

      Regarding Alex Bell.

      Why would he come out now with his moaning shite?

      Its unionist muscle flexing, mr puniverse in reality, but they’re desperately trying to bury the Vow shyst Scotland bill and EVEL while simultaneous battering the life out of ideas above Scotland regional station.

      Alex Bell says-

      You’re all deluded morons, so vote NO/SLab

      You’re all bums and scroungers feeding off England’s kindness, so vote NO/SLab

      You’re all just a bunch of whiners and grievance cultists, so vote NO/SLab

      We gave you ingrates and morons Devo-Max federal UK like we promised and you can’t even use all those massive new powers to fix all your shite Scotland region problems, so vote NO/SLab

      SO, we want many more Alex Bells, much more and this appeal goes out especially to all the lovely UKOK historywoman/keverage/effiedeans style #SNPouters.

      UKOK needs you all next May.

    120. geeo says:

      Sorry o/t, but did i just see on Scotland tonight that one certain Mr Sarwar of ex labour MP “fame” saying he was trying to get a labour list seat ??

      If true, that is a couple now. One who got elected to deputy leader on the promise he WOULD NOT look for his guaranteed seat by being top of the labour list, and the other, despite being ousted by utterly MASSIVE swing away from him and his party.

      How many more ?

      Return of the ligger via the list ?

      Not even a jot of shame and arguably an argument against the list system as used.

      Saying that, ex labour MP’s in holyrood are an absolute GIFT !!!

    121. heedtracker says:

      Sorry o/t, but did i just see on Scotland tonight that one certain Mr Sarwar of ex labour MP “fame” saying he was trying to get a labour list seat ??

      Surely not the same Anas that told England the Scottish Parliament’s a dictatorship and not democratic?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy2M85OBrBc

      Good olde red tories.

    122. Petra says:

      Anas Sarwar’s back on the scene. He’s announced that he’ll stand for a regional MSP seat in next year’s Scottish Parliamentary election.

      On Scotland Tonight bleating on about Labour values, how great the party is, caring for Scotland, what he’ll do if he’s elected.

      Says he’s ”a young, fresh-faced 32 year old with a lot of experience.”

      I’d say that he’s a two-faced 32 year old with a lot of nerve. Remember he got out when he realised that SLab were going down the stank and that he might be lumbered with being Leader (had half a dozen more brain cells than Murphy)?

      http://www.clyde2.com/news/local/sarwar-quits-as-scots-labour-deputy/

      He’s back on the scene because he’s missing his wage, his expense claims and more than anything plans to oust Kezia Dugdale at the first opportunity.

      He, like his father, was always in the TOP TEN of expense claimants at Westminster ….. greedier than the Tories.

      His father Mohammed Sarwar also claimed almost £100,000 to cover mortgage interest that he paid from a Swiss bank account.

      Sarwar the Blairite! How is that going to work for SLab: latest ploy trying to pretend that they’re returning to Keir Hardie ideology / policies?

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/08/31/glasgow-central-who-is-in-control-the-sarwar-dynasty-or-the-voters-time-for-the-voters-to-bring-down-the-dynasty/comment-page-1/

    123. Dr Jim says:

      The vetting fingerprinting photographing and data checking of people is vitally important so that all migrants from England don’t have a history of British Nationalism that we have to worry about

      It’s the last thing we need in our socially just Scotland
      #Stamp out racism

      He He He couldn’t resist it, (condemn me)

    124. osakisushi says:

      It finally dawned on me that the easiest way of identifying mince is to check whether comments are enabled or disabled.

      In the past in the Crapograph I’ve simply looked elsewhere to mention a grumble but shall now issue the preface, As comments were disabled against XYFU, presumably the article is untrue.

      Wonder how many identities I shall need once the bans start.

    125. Petra says:

      O/T

      @ Glamaig says at 9:01 pm ”A few weeks ago I emailed the producer of a certain food product to complain that they had recently started decorating their packaging with union jacks. I said I really liked their product but I would have to stop buying it as I didnt want union jacks plastered over my shopping ………Maybe its just a coincidence but I see they are now UJ-free. Its always worth complaining folks so get to it!”

      Maybe we should all start complaining to McMillan Cancer? I see they’re selling biscuits in M&S with ‘Better Together’ wrapping. A shame really as we know their nurses do a brilliant job.

      https://twitter.com/MrMalky/status/644431734189199360

      On the way towards privatisation?

      http://www.redpepper.org.uk/macmillan-cancer-support-gets-it-wrong-big-time/

      And on the same subject that takes the biscuit Heedtracker! I’m beginning to think that some of those UKOK characters have totally lost the plot. Where do they get the nerve from? Or is it a sure sign that ignorance is bliss? Must have given Stiglitz and every other prestigious economist on the planet a right laugh.

      @ heedtracker says at 7:52 pm ”That’s a Noble prize winner and this is what far right UKOK thinks of him …… Joseph Stiglitz, the eminent former chief economist of the World Bank and chairman of the US president’s Council of Economic Advisers. Its a UKOK toryboy world. We just live in it somehow.”

      http://www.capx.co/joe-stiglitz-is-talking-rubbish/

    126. Thepnr says:

      Give Anas Sarwar a list seat. What’s to lose?

    127. yesindyref2 says:

      In the comments on Alex Bell’s article this one was quite funny: “Excellent article, and it is disappointing to see some comments refusing to accept facts and figures because they don’t say what they want them to “.

      Yet the only figures on the article were a guess of £1 or £2 billion to set up an independent Scotland. The blog seems to have attracted a lot of unionist interest though, perhaps that was its purpose. Unusually Peter A Bell’s comment was just 10 words long! I also checked out the list of people Alex Bell wants to get articles from, an eclectic mixture including the editor of the Observer, itself an unusual magazine.

      Read another couple of articles on the site, one interesting one about Stiglitz and the CoEA.

      I’ve also been reading this forum, and others, and some of the points made by Alex Bell and other articles, have been made by Indy supporters too, or people pretending to be Indy supporters, whatever your point of view. And I’m thinking that I’ve posted on the Herald in the past that the SNP should set up its own policy opposition unit, as the actual opposition Lab + Con + Lib is so ineffective as to be virtually invisible.

      I’m sticking with my initial diagnosis, to wait and see.

    128. manandboy says:

      Anas Sarwar seeks a list seat at Holyrood.

      Anas Sarwar in Holyrood, like mercury in a reservoir.

    129. craig murray says:

      May I claim credit for spotting Alex Bell as a unionist tosser in disguise six months ago?
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/05/the-victory-paradox/

    130. Petra says:

      O/T

      Excellent blog from Craig Murray on Cameron / Syria.

      http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/11/thrashing-not-swimming/

    131. Paula Rose says:

      Rather nice little coincidence there at 1:40.

    132. Petra says:

      Wow Craig fancy meeting you here at 1:40am on the dot, lol! Talk about synchronisation or in this case synchronised swimming.

    133. craig murray says:

      Yes, that’s really quite funny. Of course, Wings is where all the best people hang out…

    134. Paula Rose says:

      Very true Craig.

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      @Craig murray
      Just read that BC Bell article for the first time, and it does get a bit insidious at the end.

      I think he makes a very basic mistake anyway, and that is to think that people are either existential OR utilitarian nationalists. Whereas there’s no reason you can’t be both, especially after the Ref produced a close 45% YES.

      The path through to the next Ref is utilitarian nationalism, to first unify much of the electorate in common cause, substantial and usable stable more powers, then to take as much of that 55% along as possible. Existential nationalism – “Indy or bust”, would just elicit the standard response “55% voted NO to that”.

      Bell thinks the SNP have forgotten about Indy and have become British. But the path to the unification was to embrace devo-max and get up to 68% or so support for “stronger Scotland”. Bell seems to think that excludes Independence. It doesn’t.

    136. Thepnr says:

      My eyes are always open, but it’s way past bedtime.

    137. Sandy Henderson says:

      Re OT comments on household products with “butcher’s apron” logo.
      There is one product that would benefit & is perhaps the most used item in every household. And it could be put in its proper place. Stamped on every sheet, of course.

    138. call me dave says:

      Macwhirter and call Kaye. 🙁

      https://archive.is/b3cmJ

    139. john king says:

      “There is one product that would benefit & is perhaps the most used item in every household. And it could be put in its proper place. Stamped on every sheet, of course.”

      What?
      Like this you mean?
      http://tinyurl.com/ngfl9fm

    140. K1 says:

      Why would MacWhirter cite Call Kaye and those who call in, as being in any way shape or form representative of the vast majority of people in Scotland.

      The latest panel based poll showed that a mere 3% polled said that they listened Every/Most (days) to that pile of steaming guff masquerading as a ‘debating’ forum. A stomping 90% polled said they listened Rarely/Never, to that particular radio programme.

      To cite the call Kaye programme as representing some broad church of views is like asking David Cameron whether he’s for an Independent Scotland!

      He isn’t and Call Kaye doesn’t.

      What a ludicrous article, are you now just part of the bandwagon of journalists jumping all over this and making spurious and ill informed associations to incite the very thing that you are implying actually exists?

      That unbeknownst to ourselves, we are intolerant racists and an ill informed populace? Who will now, as some Syrian refugees have arrived into our communities, reveal ourselves as the latent bigoted ignorant numpties that we truly are and start attacking those ‘brown’ people, cause we’re no ‘used to’ that colour of skin?

      What are you smoking MacWhirter?

      There are and always will be ‘elements’ everywhere in any country where this is the case. Fear and ignorance thrive together as you should well know.

      You cannot seriously think linking Call Kaye’s intolerant callers and an incident at Monkton whilst caveating that that programme is ‘not a representative sample of Scottish opinion’ and that the Monkton incident is ‘an isolated incident’ and still base your entire article on those premises?

      It’s exactly this kind of opinionated guff coming from you lot that is inflaming this.

      Call Kaye’s entire programme is based on patronising and speaking to the listener in a condescending manner. It wraps complex and nuanced issues into a format of ‘black and white’ precisely to draw that ‘element’ to pick up their phones and ‘moan’ about what Call Kaye (the producers) has decided is worth moaning about that morning.

      It attracts those who are ill informed and does not represent any one in Scotland. It has One agenda: Entertainment.

      It is not a serious investigative programme, and you know that.

      I once really enjoyed your musings MacWhirter but that effort right there, finishes it for me.

      Don’t presume to speak for me or anyone else in Scotland regarding the refugee situation, this is clearly how ‘you’ feel, you just grasped at the Call Kaye and the Monkton incident as proxies for the expression of yer ain inner fears.

      Go write for the Record, that’s your level, right there.

    141. john king says:

      I’ve got a contender for your World Irony championships medal Stu
      Mcwhirter on Call Kay (with a E)
      “Call Kaye is probably better than the BBC’s normal vox pops which are invariably selected to ensure “balance”. ”

      BALANCE???
      Whoo hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

      I’ve phoned dozens of times and NOT ONCE have I gotton on the programme,
      Ive no idea why (irony)!

    142. john king says:

      @me 🙂 @5.55
      “BAD REQUEST”
      VERY BAD!
      http://tinyurl.com/ndf6ljo

    143. john king says:

      WHOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
      ONLY ONE LEFT IN STOCK!
      they must have had a run(s) on that. 🙂

    144. john king says:

      K1 says
      “That unbeknownst to ourselves, we are intolerant racists and an ill informed populace? Who will now, as some Syrian refugees have arrived into our communities, reveal ourselves as the latent bigoted ignorant numpties that we truly are and start attacking those ‘brown’ people, cause we’re no ‘used to’ that colour of skin?”

      I heard an ignorant clown sitting on the BBC couch this morning saying the same thing,
      They are praying we’ll turn on those people,

      I asked on another blog
      Should we have turned away Jewish refugees in 1940 in case there were nazis coming in with them?

    145. K1 says:

      Aye, closed comments MacWhirter, says it all. You know exactly what you’re doing. Pathetic.

    146. K1 says:

      Aye…the war ‘meme’ is picking up pace john, ignorant sheep been corralled by the BBC and the Machwhirter’s of the world.

      Bleating what they have just heard on the ‘news’ and talking as if they are informed, not a an ounce of reflection betwixt the two…automatic repeat…

      They really fuckin’ scored wi propaganda…as ‘The’ tool to enable the self-aggrandisement of the establishment to reign in perpetuity.

      Bastards. Turned everyone into their ‘enablers’.

    147. K1 says:

      If everyone just switched off their telly’s and radios for 24 hours and did not buy any of their papers. It would have an effect.

      Then they would notice. That we decide.

      But no one will, people are addicted to the ‘drama’.

    148. Ken500 says:

      Iain McWhirter is a liar who can’t count or understand elementary Maths. An unelected failure who spouts nonsense. No wonder newspaper sales are falling like a rocket. The Unionist illegal wars and cover up. McWhirter is paid to knock Scotland. An editorial decision.

      @ Well spotted Craig, ; – )

      When mature student numbers (a fifth) are adding into the statistics, there are more students from deprived backgrounds in Scotland going io Universities than those from well off backgrounds. iUnionist statistics and lies. They can’t count or understand elementary Maths. Are wealthy students and mature students from elsewhere, taken out of the statistics?

      Less students from deprived backgrounds were going to Uni straight from school because unionist politicians were means-testing student loans on household incomes and students from poorer backgrounds could not get adequate funding to go to Uni straight from school. Some people decide to go to Uni later. It’s their choice. There is life-long learning in Scotland.Some people become parents at a younger age, the more appropriate time (biologically). 18-24 for male and
      female.

      The SNP has changed that now and all Scottish students who qualify, will now get a student loan. The Statistics have not come through yet. The policy was changed last year. The SNP have only been in power at Holyrood for four years. So much to do and so little time. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    149. K1 says:

      Some good news re SNP’s target of 30,000 affordable homes by March 2016.

      They’ve achieved it early!

      http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Affordable-homes-target-exceeded-1f63.aspx

    150. manandboy says:

      Addressing the Commons, David Cameron calls Jaqqa, the IS city, ‘the head of the snake’. I suppose, with his forked tongue, Cameron is the right man to persuade MP’s to agree to bombing IS targets in Syria.

      From one nest of vipers to another, so to speak.

    151. Ken500 says:

      The number of refugees being allowed to come to Britain by Westminster is minute compared to the illegal carnage Westminster has caused in the Middle East.

      Westminster is corrupt beyond belief and illegally controls the Media. They hide their illegal crimes under the Official Secrets Act. The are murdering, greedy criminals who waste £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money, without a Mandate. They kill vulunerable people at home and abroad. They are a threat to a civilised society in the world. The majority should be in jail. Blair and Brown should be in jail for crimes against humanity. The next Crowdfunded prosecution?

      Westminster policies have caused the bigger migration crisis since 11WW. They are now spreading nuclear to the Middle East. Westminster politicians will cause a 111WW nuclear war. They are blowing the world
      to bits. It is mentally insane.

    152. john king says:

      I thought it was Raqqa or is Jaqqa the way its spelled in Syria?

    153. Sandy Henderson says:

      To J king.
      25p each + £4.07 delivery. Highland & Islands, I presume.
      No, I’ll stick to Torygraph & Mail. The quality of their paper absorbs any s**t. And I get them for nothing.

    154. manandboy says:

      I’m sure the Muslim refugees will have no trouble in settling in among the majority of Scotland’s population. Everything will be just fine as long as no one talks about religion. It is a humanitarian response after all. Let’s keep it that way.

      I wonder if they will be dispersed or kept together in only a few places.

    155. manandboy says:

      It is of course ‘Raqqa’.
      Not enough sleep.

    156. Dorothy Devine says:

      How astonishing that Ian McWhirter is using that appalling programme as proof that Scots are intolerant.

      I am very sad to now write off one of the two Ian’s in whom I had a little faith.

      It has been an interesting time in terms of the propaganda churned out , the non stop fear factor by the BBBC – from extended news sticking microphones and cameras in grieving French faces , to full Panorama programmes and even shoe horning IS into Crimewatch.

      How long can they stuff the tele full of sombre , finger wagging ,fear promoting , war drum belting extended news?

      Just when do Westminster and Washington say “mea culpa”?

      For those who lost loved ones in Paris , I feel impotently sad and angry and I would like you left in peace to grieve.

      I do not wish to see some pontificating waffler from the BBBC or ITV poking into your grief.

      May I add my welcome to the poor folk fleeing to this country and may I apologise for the weather which greeted them.

      I had to smile when the gentleman, there to greet the newcomers and already established here , said that there were many things they will have to learn and contend with , language , food , different lifestyle and WEATHER.

      What a shock to their systems coming from warm climates to a Scottish November and its world supply of wet water – I hope there were umbrellas and wellies waiting for them!

    157. Haggis Hunter says:

      craig murray says:

      18 November, 2015 at 1:40 am

      May I claim credit for spotting Alex Bell as a unionist tosser in disguise six months ago?
      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/05/the-victory-paradox/

      Eye opener! Maybe Bell was even working for Ml5 all the time?

    158. caz-m says:

      manandboy

      Re: IS headquarters,

      Now, if Raqqa was the “head of the pig” instead of the “head of the snake”, then Cameron could really have went to town on it.

    159. Ken500 says:

      The Maltese migrant drivers when back within six weeks. The weather. There are Millions of migrants from Britain living in Europe/world. The weather. The UK economy would collapse (even further?) without migrants, especially in London S/E. All major cites in the world are multinational and cosmopolitian. Great big melting pot. Big enough for the world and all it’s got.

    160. john king says:

      Dorothy Devine says
      “May I add my welcome to the poor folk fleeing to this country and may I apologise for the weather which greeted them.”

      Anyone I hear saying “we should not let those terrorists into Scotland”
      I just ask them how would we feel about ourselves if in 1940 we turned away Jewish refugees from Germany in case a nazi or two came in with them, isnt that what we have security services for?

    161. caz-m says:

      K1

      I am with you all the way regarding highlighting that BBC Scotland is stirring the racist pot.

      I noticed it in their bulletins yesterday. STV also like to mix it up a bit.

      This is all based on the SNP being the main backers of bringing these desperate people to Scotland. The Unionist media just can’t help themselves.

      They are experts at planting the seed of fear.

    162. manandboy says:

      Over on Twitter, Bataclan may have been the main target because it was owned by a Jewish man, but only until September when he emigrated. Was IS attack a mistake therefore?

      Video of threats outside Bataclan some time ago by a group wearing Palestinian style head/face cover.

      Were the other incidents designed just to confuse the Paris police and splinter their response capability.?

    163. Ken500 says:

      Cameron abuses pigs. Cameron is a Alcoholic, like many MP’s. Alcoholics make poor decision. They should introduce drug/drink testing for Westminster politicians and ban them when they are over the limit. Drug taking and blackmail by the Westminster establishment is rife. They use the Offical Secrets Act, illegally, to cover up their criminality.

      When will the details of the British illegal drug taking athletics be released? Funded by £Billions of taxpayers money. Along with the details of Seb Coe’s role in the cover up. Funded by £Millions of taxpayers money.

    164. K1 says:

      Aye caz, we know what they are…mouthpieces fur their maisters.

      Bastards.

    165. galamcennalath says:

      @caz @k1

      I was aware on both they were pushing the idea that there was “mixed feelings” among locals about the refugees. Then they showed interviews in the street. The only negative comments were things like “they will not like the weather”. Nothing racist or anti refugee.

      So why did the BBC and STV say “mixed feelings” and presented no evidence.

      So, yes, you can only conclude they have been told to try to ‘stir it’.

      My fear is that groups like SDL also obey their imperial masters.

    166. galamcennalath says:

      I absolutely HATE the Daily Record. Take this headline …

      “Paris terror attacks: Police probing potential internet ‘hoax’ over Scot allegedly involved in Bataclan massacre”

      https://archive.is/qLx8E

      …. to my eye, using the phrase ‘allegedly involved’ implies being one of the perpetrators.

      It should of course have said “Scot was a victim of”.

      Those scumbags at the DR never miss a trick to throw shit at Scotland.

    167. Grouse Beater says:

      When BBC goes out into the streets to record some vox pop it is charged with obtaining a ‘balance’.

      It does not matter if 9 out 10 people think one way, the interviewer and crew will seek out four people (it’s always four) and ensure opinion is 2 against 2, thus giving a completely false impression of public opinion.

      It’s also a way of providing doubt in the mind of the rest of us – a BBC propaganda technique. It remains standard practice for new and entertainment shows. We the viewer assume, wrongly, the public mood is not cut and dried.

      I used to complain to my senior colleagues that vox pop was an unquestioned waste of time and money but no one listened. Call Kaye is that same procedure made a whole programme …

    168. call me dave says:

      On radio Scotland so it must be true. 🙂

      BBC to stop the ‘red button’ service and the i-player ‘loop=hole’ to be closed and certain unnamed sports events to be shelved as the revenues have dropped dramatically.

    169. Les Wilson says:

      Talking about refugees, the vast majority of these people are genuine not potential terrorists. They really want a different, safer life, considering what they have been through, Who can blame them.
      If we treat these people well, as we should, the majority will self enforce against Islamic extremists.

      They know that Scotland is their adopted country now, they value a calmer more secure life, for them, for their families.

      I have been lucky enough to have done a lot of traveling in my life, I have met many muslims of different ilk. Some I liked, some I did not, but I accept their right to pursue whatever religion they want to.
      Some of the nicest people I have met have been Iranian, they were really good people, as with any country determined as bad, not all it’s people are bad.

      It is ONLY extreme elements that cause all these atroceties, we cannot consider them all the same. We need to make them welcome in Scotland, help them shed their fears and insecurities. They will return that friendship, and that will help to ensure we all live safe lives as time passes.

      Let us not forget where the fault of all their troubles started from.

      We should not waver in our humanity.
      A man’s a man for aw that.

    170. Macart says:

      The media basically pointing out the bleedin’ obvious, in that there are intolerant bawheids full of hate in every country isn’t news. But then folk who judge people on the colour of their skin, their religion or sexual preference are simply looking for an excuse.

      They are also very handy tools to be used by those with bigger aims. They simply point them in the right direction and let them loose to cause havoc. Again, a thing not simply common to the UK and something the independence movement has been on the receiving end of.

      Plenty titles have gone into overdrive on the refugee crisis of recent times and as ever politicians with an eye for the main chance aren’t slow in creating narratives to drive agendas.

      Now seein’ as how our movement has had its fair share of demonisation and indeed our nationality has come under a fair dose of racist abuse from the UKs media in recent times, you’d kinda hope it would sink in to folks how racism, indeed any ‘ism’, can be used for effect by those with an agenda.

      Judging an ‘individual’ on action and intent seems a bit more common sense t’me.

      So, are we all sweaties, haggis bashing, porridge wogs and subsidy junkies who shoot heroin, eat deep fried mars bars and become tartan barbarians with a hatred of all things English? Do we live in a country that requires hand holding and constant supervision by a nanny state? A country so piss poor and incapable, it could turn into a northern European version of a desert without the aid of all that better togetherness we’re currently enjoying.

      That’s the narrative woven by our own government and media about us. Having a different coloured skin and practicing your religion in a different way simply makes the job easier for such bastards.

    171. heedtracker says:

      UKOK Herald hackdom stirs up trouble, in conjunction with likes of the Pacific Quay creep show.

      “We saw the disturbance at Monkton, Ayrshire, at the weekend over plans to house refugees in a local hotel. An isolated incident, of course. But the Nicola Sturgeon felt moved to issue a warning against “hate crime” yesterday as the Home Secretary Teresa May insisted the refugees will have been thoroughly vetted.”

      What is the “Nicola Sturgeon” and how did it feel moved?

      MacWhirter turns out to be just on more UK media areshole, shock.

    172. Grouse Beater says:

      Craig Murray: spotting Alex Bell as a unionist tosser in disguise six months ago?

      The miner’s union, (‘the enemy within’) battling against Thatcher’s thugs, they had a government spy in their midst, second in charge, no less, Roger Windsor, who owned up years later. Correct?

      MI5 denied it, at least their boss Stella Rimington said he was not an ’employee’, which is to say, he was probably a freelance informer, paid. No surprise, then, that the SNP has one … or two.

      Under Thatcher’s guidance, MI5, police Special Branch, GCHQ and the NSA were mobilised not only to spy on the NUM on an industrial scale, but to employ agents provocateurs at the highest level of the union, dirty tricks, slush funds, false allegations, forgeries, phoney cash deposits and multiple secretly sponsored legal actions to break the defence of the mining communities.

      What a lovely country is merry England.

    173. sensibledave says:

      Ken500 7:06 am

      You wrote “Westminster is corrupt beyond belief and illegally controls the Media. They hide their illegal crimes under the Official Secrets Act. The are murdering, greedy criminals who waste £Millions/Billions of taxpayers money, without a Mandate. They kill vulunerable people at home and abroad. They are a threat to a civilised society in the world. The majority should be in jail. Blair and Brown should be in jail for crimes against humanity. The next Crowdfunded prosecution?

      Westminster policies have caused the bigger migration crisis since 11WW. They are now spreading nuclear to the Middle East. Westminster politicians will cause a 111WW nuclear war. They are blowing the world to bits. It is mentally insane.”

      … you missed a few things! You forgot to blame Westminster for global warming, the Tsunami and drowning puppies.

      Just for the sake of clarity, could you confirm whether the term “Westminster” you used includes the 55 SNP MPs – or is it just every other MP other than the 55?

    174. K1 says:

      Well said Macart, that’s it exactly:

      ‘That’s the narrative woven by our own government and media about us. Having a different coloured skin and practicing your religion in a different way simply makes the job easier for such bastards.’

      For the love of humanity when will people wake up to this shit!

    175. Grouse Beater says:

      Dippy Dave: you missed a few things! You forgot to blame Westminster for global warming, the Tsunami and drowning puppies.

      Any chance you could seal the flap when next you disappear up your arse to check how clever you are?

    176. manandboy says:

      When you hear or read the words ‘the news’, what do you do?

      Remember, if it’s in the Record or the Herald, on BBC or ITV, it probably started its journey at No 10 Downing St and has been designed, released and orchestrated, in order to brainwash and direct the population according to Westminster’s / Washington’s purposes.

      Mental Health Advice: Anyone who daily consumes lots of print and/or broadcast media should google ‘Pavlov’s dogs’. (http://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html – and others).

      As a dog owner will say the command ‘sit’,& the dog sits,
      so the Government uses the command ‘ The News ‘, and the population sits to be fed propaganda, from No 10, through ‘the news’ which has been carefully chosen or cleverly presented of course to suit the Government’s purposes.

      Then, while the population is thinking about ‘the news’, the Government can get on, undisturbed, doing what is neither in ‘the news’, nor in the public’s interests.

      If you must buy a paper or watch the telly, don’t read or watch ‘the news’ – unless you’re happy to be treated like a dog being trained.

      My owner’s taking me for a walk now. I’ll get my lead.

    177. Ken500 says:

      The Russian administration is illegally bombing people in the Middle East, that the US administration has illegally funded. The US administration is illegally bombing people in the Middle East that the Russian administration has illegally funded. The French administration is illegally bombing anyone in the Middle East. All are illegally taking Middle Eastern resources to leave people with no rights in total poverty and deprivation or dead. Total psychopaths. Criminally insane. When will this madness stop? It is inducing mental health problems throughout the world. People are not sleeping or eating properly. They are being left unhappy with major anxiety and health problems. Psychopathic, unelected, unrepresentative, crazy politicians are destroying the world. It is unbelievable. Instead of trading and giving aid.

    178. heedtracker says:

      … you missed a few things! You forgot to blame Westminster for global warming, the Tsunami and drowning puppies.

      Sensibledave 3? do you ever wonder what it must be like watching the UKOK war machine in action in the middle east sensibledave 3, if you’re not a UKOK jingo and tub thumper like you?

      What’s it like for Iraqis or Syrians or Afghanis when the UK/US war machine goes berserk around you?

      Rule Britannia has nukes too. May god have mercy on the souls of all the Westminster MP’s that vote war in hot places, just far enough that they can’t strike back.

      Lets UKOK bomb them some more, its the British way and being British, we’re not psychotic lunatics at all.

    179. Bob Mack says:

      @Sensibledave,

      All Ken needs to prove his point is a history book .
      What part of the world and its population has not suffered at the hands of the UK?

      That would be a hard one to answer.
      The point is we have had enough of these foreign adventures. We would prefer to live in harmony,difficult though it may be.
      This country has buried millions in the name of freedom,both from its own side,but mainly the opposition.
      To deny this is amazing and shows utter denial.

    180. Macart says:

      @K1

      Sometime, maybe never K1.

      Depressing as it is, people seem to find it easier to hate than to understand.

    181. Ken500 says:

      The majority of Westminster MP’s are Unionist. Westminster Unionists are responsible for the Tsunami, global warming, abusing pigs, killing puppies and people.

      Thatcher’s unelected adviser Rothschild devised the Poll Tax against elected politicians advising against it.

    182. manandboy says:

      Les Wilson says: 9:01 am
      It is ONLY extreme elements that cause all these atrocities,

      So right, Les.
      While here in the UK, the extreme elements start with the Prime Minister, David Cameron, and carry on down through George Osborne, Ian Duncan Smith and Teresa May ..together with the rest of the Tory Gov, the Unionist Labour party, Ruthie and the Scots Tories Band. They all have extreme, neo-Liberal and dim views of the working classes, the elderly, children and the disabled. Atrocious.
      While protecting paedophiles, serial liars, offshore tax evaders and money launderers.

      The UK Government – going to extreme lengths to hang on to Westminster’s wealth up in Scotland. For now.

    183. Why does anyone bother to converse with sensibledave. Ignoring him would frustrate him more.

    184. caz-m says:

      Regarding BBC Scotland,

      “3% Kaye” asks,

      “Scotland is the foodbank capital of the UK, is that a good thing or a bad thing?”

      Is she serious? Why would you even ask that question, you f*ckin moron.

      Foodbanks in Scotland in 2015 is an absolute disgrace.

    185. K1 says:

      In case anyone hasn’t seen this, Labour and another Vow broken.

      Alex Rowley who ‘vowed’ not to take up the top Regional seat at Holyrood elections in 2016 has announced that he is going to take up the top Regional seat at Holyrood elections next year:

      ‘Mr Rowley’s reversal comes less than three months after he said seeking any regional seat would be “defeatist” and vowed to stake his career on retaining Cowdenbeath, which he won in a 2014 by-election. He will now have top slot for Labour in the mid-Scotland and Fife region, as well as standing in his constituency.

      He said: “I have advised the Scottish General Secretary of the Labour Party that I will take up the place on the regional list that is available for the deputy leader of the Scottish Labour Party. I have done so after considering the changing circumstances within the Scottish Labour Party since I stood for deputy leader, when I said I would only stand in the constituency section.’

      Just big fat liars all round, covering their arses right and left…you could not make this up.

      Labour branch in Scotland: Laden wi Irony.

      https://archive.is/LU9S1

    186. sensibledave says:

      Heedy 9.32

      “Sensibledave 3? do you ever wonder what it must be like watching the UKOK war machine in action in the middle east sensibledave 3, if you’re not a UKOK jingo and tub thumper like you?”

      I don’t want war. I don’t want people to starve or be oppressed or die of curable diseases.

      I wish the history of the world wasn’t what it is Heedy. I wish we hadn’t had the wars in the Middle East or the two World Wars. However, neither you, nor I, have the option of rewriting it – so we start from here. Today.

      We respond (or not) to events. We try and decide what is the “right” thing to do. In each circumstance, we are usually left with pursuing the “least worst” option. If we look at the recent past, we had the issue with Bosnia. Should we have gone in and stop the murder of Muslims? Should we leave the Libyans cornered on the coast, facing certain death at the hands of the Gadaffi regime and leave them to their fate? When 10,000 Yazidis were trapped on top of a mountain facing death at the hands of ISIL, should we have left them to their fate – all because of our sins of the past?

      What would have been the death toll, the cost to humanity, the state of the Middle East had we not intervened? Would we have been directly responsible for those deaths? – because we had chosen the option to intervene and prevent the deaths?

      Currently, we face the issues of ISIL in Syria. I listen to the news and the discussions involving politicians from all over the world as well as senior members of the Armed Forces from all over the world. There is no clear-cut, obvious solution.

      At the moment, we have the situation where Parliament have agreed to bomb ISIL (who do not recognise national boundaries) right up to the border in Iraq – but if they cross 100 yds over the border, we leave them alone. The USA and France are left to try and deal with ISIL in Syria.

      Accepting that you disagree with all the recent actions described above, could you let me know what your personal policy is with respect to how we should deal with ISIL, in Syria, today?

      We all wish we were not starting from here – but we have no other option. Its a very simple question Heedy – and, hopefully, your answer should have absolutely nothing to do with Scottish Independence.

    187. K1 says:

      Aye caz, goes to my earlier point, it’s not a debate it’s click bait.

      It’s about stirring and creating divide. This is not a news or information service. Call Kay wi a 3% is a masterclass in the ‘dumbing down of an electorate.’

      It’s what the BBC is for!

    188. John H. says:

      As soon as I read “sensibledave says” I move on.

    189. manandboy says:

      If this weather keeps up, it won’t matter to the refugees from the warm and sunny and war torn countries they’ve come from. But maybe after a few months of safety, peace and security, they’ll miss the weather they grew up with. It won’t be easy for them.

      I wouldn’t like to move to Greenland for the rest of my life.

      Anyway, there’s always summer for them to look forward to. And the midgies – I hope somebodie’s telt them!

    190. manandboy says:

      The BBC could close its Red Button services as part of £150m of cuts.
      Replacing BBC Ceefax, it offers news and sport text services as well as extra channels during events such as Wimbledon and Glastonbury.
      A £35m cut is also expected to be made to sports rights.
      The BBC has already lost the rights to the Open Golf Tournament and while no event has been officially earmarked, it could throw doubt on the corporation’s coverage of sports such as F1 racing.
      It is also understood £12m will be cut from TV but BBC drama and shows such as Strictly Come Dancing will be protected from the savings.
      The cuts also include 1,000 job losses, which were announced in July.
      The BBC says the savings are a consequence of a drop in the licence fee income because of what it calls the “iPlayer loophole”, that is people switching to watching BBC services only on “catch up” via the iPlayer which does not currently require payment of the licence fee.

      The BBC says it has received assurances from the government that this “loophole” will be closed.

    191. Helena Brown says:

      Dearest Senseless Dave, here is the problem, should we stand by and allow Israel to do as it is doing, should we have put a stop to it, and don’t you think that this might have stopped the problems in the Middle East, answers on a postcard in case you are worried about those in Westminster and in Washington who are in the pockets of those who should really know better.
      Dearest Sensible, most of the problems in this world are caused by the actions of Western Man and his expansionist policies, all those taking over pther parts of the world and robbing and pillaging. Oh I know that there are those like yourself who regard that the Empire acted as Rome and civilised the world, well Dave, dearest, Rome may have had central heating but they were a bunch of proto nazi’s so what does it say about us.
      Time to let the rest of the world take a turn at seeing if they can resolve without bombing folk to hell and back, Isil/ISIS/ etc are a reaction to the actions of US.

    192. heedtracker says:

      – and, hopefully, your answer should have absolutely nothing to do with Scottish Independence

      It has everything to do with Scotland running Scotland sensibledave. Breaking away from Westminster as far as possible would be a wonderful opportunity for Scotland.

      Its not enough by a billion miles to tell vile separatists, well here we are, what would you do then.

      The fact our imperial masters, you, think they STILL have some god given right to bomb the fcuk out of hot countries, that can’t fight back, is indictment enough to vote YES next time.

      Where is Chilcot for example sensibledave?

      Every MP that voted for war in the middle east should be impeached. Instead, here in Scotland just this week, we have to endure likes of BBC Vote SLabour Scotland tv news desperately try and sell Gordon Brown as some kind of NOT psychotic unionist red tory war monger.

      Such is modern UKOK imperial rule of your Scotland region, hard core attack propaganda.

      “Accepting that you disagree with all the recent actions described above, could you let me know what your personal policy is with respect to how we should deal with ISIL, in Syria, today?”

      Try to move towards the way all war ends, war mongers finally sitting around a big table and working out deals, once they’ve killed enough.

      War is good, for Westminster sensibledave 3.

    193. Les Wilson says:

      manandboy says:
      Yes indeed, they could be in the radical catagory themselves.

      They are the one who have carried out the worst atrocities, eg Iraq and….. well you name it.
      In this vein the Union carried out it’s most brutal battle here on Scottish soil, littered with atrocities and genocide…. Culloden.

    194. Bob Mack says:

      @Helena Brown,

      Bang on.

    195. galamcennalath says:

      ISIS are a direct consequence of mad bad Bush and Blair. How did they ever manage to get away with invading Iraq? That is the real question everyone needs to focus on, how could that possibly have happened? How could this mess have happened?

      The answer might be a hopelessly depressing view of the West and its attitudes.

    196. schrodingers cat says:

      ot

      St Andrews was a………Syrian

      not a lot of people know that

    197. Grouse Beater says:

      The opinion of an ill-informed simpleton and obedient Unionist, here:

      Dippy Dave: we have no other option

      And anybody who trots out this stupidity is a fool, as here:

      Dippy Dave: ISIL (who do not recognise national boundaries)

    198. Cadogan Enright says:

      I logged onto the Records site in response to this and several other corkers and posted;

      “I think this says it all http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/recordsnp.jpg

      It’s awaiting moderation

    199. Ruby says:

      sensible dave:

      Just for the sake of clarity, could you confirm whether the term “Westminster” you used includes the 55 SNP MPs – or is it just every other MP other than the 55?

      Ruby replies
      That is a rather stupid question!

      Westminster = The UK/English parliament.
      Sure it includes 55 SNP MPs but they don’t stand a chance against 650 hostile English MPs.

      I scanned through your long post where you stated that you think we should be saving the world but the question I would be asking is if we do go out there and save the world then what cuts will we have to make at home. Where do we get the money to save the world and what will be the consequences of our actions?

      So if we spend £billions ensuring the girls in Afghanistan can go to school does that mean girls in the UK will make the sacrifice or will we have to make cuts to the NHS, tax credits, bedroom tax, and then open Food Banks?

      Should we be thinking more about the consequences of our actions. Cause & effect! For example Tony Blair has admitted that the illegal Iraq war has led to a rise in ISIL.

      Do you think that people believe that if you go to war only the ‘bad guys’ get killed?

    200. mealer says:

      I just tried googling “Alex Rowley list”.Most peculiar.Perhaps one of our more techy members could explain what’s going on.

    201. Andrew McLean says:

      Just to pull us back kind of on topic, can I suggest Vladimir Putin as a contender in the world Irony Championships, He is correct to feel anger at the terrorists downing the MetroJet Flight and killing all 224 passengers and crew http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/moscow-steps-up-air-campaign-over-syria-419253/
      But when will he finally act on the downing of this plane that killed 298. Caution this link shows distressing image! http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-plane-ukraine.html?_r=0
      Russia is fooling no one.

    202. ahundredthidiot says:

      It is reasonable to suggest, if you believe western governments and their news outlets, you’re already lost.

      If enough people believe them, which I worry might be the case, then the human race is fucked.

      The big hard sell continues. Believe none of what you hear and less of what you see.

    203. mealer says:

      Schrodingerscat 10.59
      He micht hae brocht some decent weather wi him.

    204. MrObycyek says:

      If Westminster passed a law that forced the people of Scotland to each wear iron shackles you would have balloons like Sensible Dave and Martin Redfern blaming the SNP for not providing suitable protection from chafing.

    205. heedtracker says:

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 16h16 hours ago
      Some of the quite crude tweets from @clairerobsc56/@clairerobsc1 look very different now that we know she is a man.

      Looks like the red and blue tory comedy show’s on the hunt for cybernats again.

      So another day for teamGB unionists farts along, BBC Scotland belches out its usual vote No/ vote SLab propaganda, the world in flames, all Europe on Defcon 1 and the usual twerps from the SLabour goon show that helped cause it all, hunts cybernats, shock.

    206. Ruby says:

      I feel a bit sorry for Alex Bell. The Unionist media are using him and yet nobody is donating to his crowd funding appeal.

      ‘Rattle’ is the name of a magazine which has been going for 20 years. He might want to get an original name for his magazine.

      http://tinyurl.com/nq8ohvo

    207. Ruby says:

      Mealer

      Is this what you are looking for

      http://tinyurl.com/q6gbuxx

      NB It is no longer on the site. This is from Google’s cache or whatever it’s called. Perhaps this needs to be archived before it disappears completely. I’ll have to scroll back to read Nana’s ‘how to archive’ post.

    208. Helena Brown says:

      schrodingers cat, I was unaware that he was a Syrian but always wondered why the Church plumped for him, could we not have had a Saint whose day was clelebrated in the Summer. Here we are with the 30th November, pitch black, usually freezing. I can just see us having a fiesta, Spanish Style.

    209. Helena Brown says:

      James Caithness, I know, I know I should ignore Sensless, we are old combantants from elsewhere, and mostly I ignore him here. That comment regarding the situation in the Middle East and bombing I just could not let go, but I promise on my behalf to do my level best and send him where he belongs.

    210. liz says:

      Iain McW has lost credibility.

      The articles he writes now are just amateur and I noticed the Sun Herald is losing readers – this is not surprising – negative articles with HoF and pushing Kez etc.

      In that ImcW article he mentions just how monoculture we appear after his return from London – gasp, globetrotter.
      Well last time I was in London I was surprised at how white it was.

      I expected this multicultural melting point but it seems that in the City area where my hotel that is not.

    211. Ruby says:

      https://archive.is/7jXLy

      “I am also clear that whilst the Scottish Executive Committee has decided that whoever wins the contest will receive an automatic place at the top of the regional list for the Scottish General election; if I win the Deputy Leadership contest I would not accept this automatic placement. If the situation ever arose whereby I decided to apply for the list, I will stand as an ordinary member without any preferential treatment.

    212. schrodingers cat says:

      what is required from the snp, indeed all of us and our respective leaders is leadership

      the situation in the middle east is complicated, no doubt about it, but if the scots genuinely are the most politically aware people in Europe, then understanding the situation is not beyond them.

      angry reaction to 9/11, 7/7, Madrid etc, is what has led us to this point. I think history has already judged bush and blair, even if chilcot doesn’t. (which it probably wont)

      dave is right about one thing, how we got to this position isn’t the most important issue. it is what we do now

      bombing another poor sod in the ME may indeed be the long term solution, but in the short term I would support Nicola’s opposition to “vengeance” air strikes

      “those seeking vengeance should start by digging 2 graves”

      in the short term what is required is a cold assessment of the situation and then an agreement between Russia, us, Europe and china on a forward plan. It is a consensus on a peaceful solution backed up by all superpowers and their people, and a willingness to enforce this militarily, is the way forward

    213. DerekM says:

      i do blame them for that Dave a tsunami of pish that drowned the puppies and global warming because all the hot air you onions fart out.

      If you are going to bomb another country disguised as tactical/surgical strikes which there is no such thing from 35000 feet with a 500lb bomb, killing innocent women and children then you had better expect retribution from the hate ,anger and despair you create.

      Sadly its always the innocents who suffer in the mad neo-liberal game of i have got a bigger gun than you.

    214. Jack Murphy says:

      OT. Meanwhile,Labour Bettertogether with Westminster are getting themselves all roused up about Ken Livingstone,Defence and Mental Health issues!!

      “Jeremy Corbyn has called on Ken Livingstone – the man he appointed to a Labour defence review – to apologise for comments about a shadow minister.
      Mr Livingstone told the Mirror Kevan Jones – who has suffered with depression – needed “psychiatric help”.
      Mr Jones said the comments were “gravely offensive”.
      Mr Livingstone’s appointment has sparked a bitter row, with shadow defence secretary Maria Eagle reportedly “furious” about it.”

      BBC UK Archived:- https://archive.is/fkLjE

    215. bugsbunny says:

      On Radio 2 right now, they are about to discuss the meritd or otherwise right now, about Nuking ISIS. Radio 2, Jeremy Vine, now at 12.10.

      God help us.

      Stephen.

    216. sensibledave says:

      heedtracker 10:39 am

      “It has everything to do with Scotland running Scotland sensibledave. Breaking away from Westminster as far as possible would be a wonderful opportunity for Scotland.”

      Unbelievable – even for you Heedy.

      In summary, your response to the huge issues in Syria today, is to have a chat with ISIL and reach an agreement.

      Just so I know, could you tell me what sort of agreement you think you would be targeting to achieve with those very reasonable people at ISIL?

      Who speaks for ISIL Heedy? Are they going to revise their understanding of the Quran because of the talks Heedy? Are they going to not kill Infidels or Muslims that have a different view of Islam to them after the chat? Are they going to change their minds about beheading innocents Heedy? Are they going to abandon their plan for a Caliphate, Heedy – once we have had this chat?

      Or Heedy, is it that every now and again, unimaginably in the minds of “normal” folk, a person, a group, a political or religious ideology is born – that is so out of step, so anti basic human values, so inhumane and yet so committed – that no amount of “talking” will yield an acceptable result.

      Hitler, Sadam Hussain, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot, Kim Yun Il – and ISIL are just some recent and current examples of loonies and organisations that, no matter how much we wish it was otherwise, talking isn’t/wasn’t/hasn’t ever yielded an “acceptable” result.

      Even this morning, assuming that the news reports are correct, a woman blew herself up in Paris. I for one, cannot comprehend that level of commitment to a religious cause (I am an Atheist so that may be unsurprising). To die for your belief in a version of some supernatural history, is literally incomprehensible to me – but I do understand that such people exist and I do “get” that having a “chat” is unlikely to achieve anything other than my early demise.

      Remember Heedy, I am just like you. I didn’t cause any of the above. You and I have one weapon – a vote. That is all.

      Based upon listening to Alex Salmond last night on the TV, and assuming that he was expressing an SNP view, then I believe the SNP are getting closer to supporting a call for UK military action in Syria – subject to a UN Mandate and decisions about “legality”.

      As I read it, that attitude is an abdication from actually having (or voicing) a view. It could be summarised as saying if everyone else thinks it is a good idea then he will support it?

      He isn’t telling us what he thinks is he? He seems to be saying that taking action would be justified – only providing other people tell him its justified. But, as part of the UN, we in the UK, actually have partial responsibility for deciding the UN’s position – so we as a country, via our elected representatives in Westminster, will help determine UN policy.

      The SNP are part of the “Westminster Establishment” now and they will may not have the option of just shouting from the sidelines. It looks like there may be another vote on involving ourselves in potential Action in Syria. The SNP will have to vote for, against, or abstain. The people of Scotland will be represented by the SNP in that vote.

      If a vote does go ahead, it looks like the result will not be the result of just the wishes of a majority of Tory MPs – the SNP vote will probably be decisive – it may well even be in their hands.

      So, with power comes responsibility and, arguably, the SNP may well hold sway on UK policy on intervention in Syria. So we will wait and see.

      I for one, predict that Ms Sturgeon and Mr Salmond will shoulder their responsibilities, and will (I hope) exclude Scottish Independence issues as being a factor in their decision making on this hugely important subject. They will weigh up all the factors and choose what they believe is the “least worst” option for the people of Syria.

      Scotland, you, and I, will be watching them.

    217. ahundredthidiot says:

      Here’s a statement

      I have no idea who conducted the reported incidents in Paris.

      Anyone who thinks they do, is lost. Trial by telly, sod the law, bomb Syria, tear up emergency order laws, troops on the streets, squash alternative opinion, attempt to control the internet. All in a few days. Fuck me.

    218. sensibledave says:

      galamcennalath 10:46 am

      ISIS are a direct consequence of mad bad Bush and Blair. How did they ever manage to get away with invading Iraq?

      Personally, I agree that we shouldn’t have commenced the second Iraq war – so we can agree that much. We don’t know what Saddam might have done if hadn’t, but I agree with you.

      Having agreed that “galmcennalath”, we start from here, today.

      Syria is a “mess”. What should we and others do?

    219. ahundredthidiot says:

      @Andrew MacLean

      Did you just quote NYTimes to prove Russia shot down MH17?

      Hilarious.

    220. sensibledave says:

      Helena 10.27

      … the usual head in the sand stuff from you Helena.

      Are you suggesting that the SNP policy in Syria is simple i.e. you wrote “Time to let the rest of the world take a turn at seeing if they can resolve without bombing folk to hell and back, Isil/ISIS/ etc are a reaction to the actions of US.”

      … The UK government, will reflect the will of the UK Parliament, including the will of 55 SNP representatives from Scotland. If SNP politicians abdicate their responsibility and follow your advice (i.e. not have a view and leave it to others) then shame on them.

      They either want power and responsibility or they don’t. If they don’t, then they should resign and get some people in that do. Shame on you Helena.

    221. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      From Scot Goes Pop from Scottish Skier…

      “SNP 54% and 56% in UK Survation and ICM poll subsamples respectively.

      Labour 17% in both.”

      Labour still in terminal decline – even before the internecine battles commence to get on these “safe” list seats.

      I wonder what level they will be at come May 16?

      If this continues their 2nd or 3rd list seats will also be under threat. So best stab everyone in the back to secure that top list place!

      Scottish Labour – Backwards and Downwards…

    222. Bob Mack says:

      @sensibledave,

      Firstly,I accept your point that Syria,and indeed the Middle East is in a mess,albeit caused by us. Isis will never negotiate,and I accept that.They are on a journey to victory or death,probably without prospect of turning.

      The job of dealing with this will take considerable statesmanship,and will not be achieved by further bombing alone. Inevitably ,and sadly there would have to be military resources on the ground.

      Having said that,I also acknowledge that this must be done under the auspices of the U.N. Only if this action is co-ordinated and agreed to by all partners can a degree of success be attained.

      This would appear problematic to Cameron who fears a Russian veto. Therefore it is a political posturing move by Cameron ,rather than a genuine attempt to find a solution to Daesh. We all in our hearts know the ultimate action required,but politics will again make a mess of the whole thing,as it has done so many times before, and we will be no further forward at the end of the day. We will only have more sacrifices to remember in front of the Cenotaph for very little gain.

    223. Andrew McLean says:

      A hundred idiots

      Glad you’re amused. I take it you are referring to this?

      http://www.rt.com/news/310082-mh17-video-another-aircraft/

    224. ahundredthidiot says:

      @Bob Mack

      You ready to pick up a gun? Or maybe send your son to do what you refer to as ‘the inevitable’ with boots on the ground.

      Fools rush in

      Maybe you would take a different view if your so called ‘enemy’ had the ability to land on your shores and take over your towns.

    225. sensibledave says:

      Bob Mack 12.42

      We are in general agreement.

    226. ahundredthidiot says:

      Andrew MacLean

      Nope…..investigation still under way…Russian made weapons…inuendo and speculation……Netherlands a part of NATO….I could go on. Oh yes, and I filmed BBC news at ten the day it went down – footage was an IL76 shot down a month previously. And I have the BBC apology to prove it.

      Your ignorance at the state of world affairs is astounding. Russia BAAADD.

    227. Ruby says:

      One thing I would like to see regarding ISIL is a total media blackout.

      I find it quite scary how the media can manipulate people into a frenzy.

      I suppose governments need people on their side if they are going to go and kill millions of people by dropping bombs.

      I suppose they also need people on their side if they are going to curtail peoples liberties.

    228. schrodingers cat says:

      1. we recognise that wahhabism is the source of this extremism. Taliban, al Qaeda, isis etc. Saudi to forwith, close all Wahhabi universities outwith Saudi, pull back all Wahhabi scolars to Saudi. the fronter of the gulf states to be sealed by the Saudi forces and patrolled by the UN. no more funding or arming Wahhabi jihadists like Al nusra, jaysh al islam and directly or indirectly, isis. either by the saudi government or rich individuals within saudi. Saudi to cease bombing yemen

      2. the remaining non wahhabi jihadists rebel groups (if there are any left)to cease fire and withdraw from the conflict to a safe area protected by all super powers.

      3. assad to respect the area that the remaining rebles withdraw to. Putin to confirm and assure.

      4. the above reference to non Wahhabi jihadists will not include the kurds. the creation of an independent Kurdish state to be established in the north of Iraq and Syrian

      if this agreement to RECOGNISE who the enemy is, encircle all wahhabists, cut off all of their support in Iraq and Syria was agreed to by Russia, US, China and Europe,

      I would support military intervention by Scotland to help enforce this.

      it is the uk and us fault for rushing in and not identifying who the real enemy was which has created this mess. until some form of agreement, as outlined above, is signed by the 5 permanent members of nato. I oppose military intervention.

    229. Andrew McLean says:

      Bob Mack

      I agree, but we are dammed if we do dammed if we don’t, how do we in the west win hearts and minds when Daesh use any intervention as confirmation how evil the west is, I think we should ask Muslim countries to help sort this mess out, with their boots on the ground, after all Daesh are a bunch of brain dead ignorants who have as much in common with the Muslim faith as the Hitler Youth.

      I say this as more evidence emerges of their barbarity against civilians, mostly old women they couldn’t use as sex slaves, or sell in market squares so murdered.

      I just pity the civilians caught up in this proxy war, but do we wait till the next attack, or the next, how many dead will it take? I don’t think we are even near to the end of the bloodletting, in some ways I fear we haven’t even just begun.

      But if history teaches us anything it’s ignoring lunatics and criminals who use their cause and a sense of victimisation to further their perverted desires.

      I listened to the BBC news this morning, yes I Know I shouldn’t on account of my blood pressure, but someone should tell them the Muslim God and the Christian God are the same God (I Quote from radio 4 this morning “when the Muslims pray to their God?), shock horror so is the Jewish God!

    230. Ruby says:

      sensibledave seems to be totally obsessed with the SNP

      I wonder why?

    231. Bob Mack says:

      @Andrew McLean.

      Agreed. Inaction is no longer an option,but it must be action that brings a permanent solution,and signed up to by ALL the major players in the region. The solution at the end must be just and above political posturing and necessity.

      I don’t think people realise the potential for ww3 if things go on as haphazardly as they are doing now.

      The West and the East have strategic needs at stake,and they are the ignition system for a wider conflict.
      ISIS are winning all right ,and achieving their aim because the bigger picture is being lost due to self interest.

    232. Andrew McLean says:

      A hundred idiots

      No not Russia bad but not Russia good either, just as the west is not without sin in this terrible state of affairs.

      I take anything said by the BBC with as much salt as anything said by RT.

      If anyone of us thinks for one second we know 100% what’s going on who the players are and what their reasons are then that really is astounding ignorance at the state of world affairs!

      We in Scotland are lucky, all we got was Glasgow Airport, I don’t want nutters running around Glasgow or Edinburgh with AK47 assault rifles, but hiding from it under some perceived self righteous feeling that we are not a legitimate target will not protect us.

      Ruby, I think news blackouts don’t work in this digital age.

    233. Ruby says:

      Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby, I think news blackouts don’t work in this digital age.

      Ruby replies

      Are you suggesting people get all their info from non news sites on the internet?

      Are you suggesting that non news sites on the internet have whipped people into such a frenzy that they are singing ‘La Marseillaise’ outside every French Consulate in the UK?

      Are you suggesting these non news sites have been read by all the BNP types who have been stirred into action by what they’ve heard on TV?

    234. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 1:01 pm

      You wrote “One thing I would like to see regarding ISIL is a total media blackout. I find it quite scary how the media can manipulate people into a frenzy.

      So, in summary, to protect our freedoms (or our knowledge?), you advocate gagging the press?

      What “frenzy” is being manipulated Ruby? The candles and flowers in Paris that are being shown, the moving scenes at Wembley last night? I saw nothing but laudable human responses being reported.

      If you mean that the press are “manipulating” us into thinking we should do something militarily – then, again, I see all sides of the argument being reported with MPs from within the same parties expressing different views. I watched Alex Salmond being interviewed on Newsnight.

      I am grateful that I live in a society that has evolved, with all of its flaws, to become the one we currently have – rather than anything that you might be involved in designing.

      Could you just let me know who you would appoint (anoint) to be responsible for determining what things I am allowed to see/know? Is it you? Is is David Cameron? is it Jeremy Corbyn?

      I had admiration for your commitment and belief in the cause of Scottish Independence Ruby. Not any more. I can see now that you are just another swivel-eyed loony.

    235. Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby 1:59

      No but what state would the general population get into if a news blackout spread across twitter, facebook, bebo, text, calls. I would argue that would play more into the lunatics hands, and not that which we could do with more of and that is Good Broadcasting.

      Ignorance is never bliss no matter how horrible the news.

    236. schrodingers cat says:

      @Helena Brown

      schrodingers cat, I was unaware that he was a Syrian but always wondered why the Church plumped for him, could we not have had a Saint whose day was clelebrated in the Summer

      how about june 19th, st jude

      patron saint of lost causes 🙂

    237. Ruby says:

      It looks as if ‘sensible dave’ has been whipped into a bit of a frenzy by the media and he doesn’t even know it.

      I wonder if he comes on to Wings to defend the MSM or is he more interested in defending the UK Gov?

    238. Andrew McLean says:

      Bob Mack

      You say Inaction? may I suggest a change of action instead as I don’t think the bombing so far could be called inaction.

      Regarding the potential for escalation it was interesting that Putin asked his naval command in theater to treat the approaching French Navy as friendly? makes you wonder why he thought that appropriate?

    239. Ruby says:

      Andrew McLean

      The UK Gov/BBC/MSM could easily justify a media blackout of all ISIL activity.

      Any guesses why they wouldn’t want to do that?

    240. Andrew McLean says:

      schrodingers cat says:

      Yes maybe some should think on the Syrian when thinking of the refugees landing on our shores, well airports.
      We could do with all our preachers reminding their congregations of that.

      Lack of integration and mutual respect is one of the reasons for radicalization, but no need to worry Scotland (the west) is well known for religious tolerance and respect, we even march on the 12th to celebrate, oh hold on!

    241. ahundredthidiot says:

      My government would never lie to me

      It certainly wouldn’t kill its own citizens abroad or at home

      I have nothing to fear, so why not give over access to all internet and mobile phone data

      I am a law abiding citizen.

      It’s to keep us all safe.

      Respect the minutes silence for people we don’t know

      Wear a poppy all year round.

      Silence dissenting voices.

      Penalise anyone who disagrees with us

      Bomb civilians in foreign countries with drones – it saves our poor wee soldiers getting PTSD

      Back America

      Fight evil

      Smoke em out

      All that OK with you sensibledave? Andrew MacLean?

    242. Andrew McLean says:

      Rubby,
      I honestly don’t know where you are going with this train of thought?

    243. sensibledave says:

      Ruby says 2:13 pm

      You wrote: “It looks as if ‘sensible dave’ has been whipped into a bit of a frenzy by the media and he doesn’t even know it. I wonder if he comes on to Wings to defend the MSM or is he more interested in defending the UK Gov?

      … not a frenzy Ruby – but I am shocked that you are not ashamed to express your warped view of the world. Have a quick think Ruby, then come back and tell us which societies have banned a free press. We will then be able evaluate whether we prefer that society (that you want), or the one we have.

      … I wont hold my breath. I predict another load of distraction and delusion via a nifty change of subject to avoid responding to the specifics about a free press. Over to you Ruby.

    244. Ruby says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      18 November, 2015 at 2:29 pm
      Rubby,
      I honestly don’t know where you are going with this train of thought?

      Ruby replies

      Ach don’t worry about it I don’t expect you are the only one.

      PS Only one B in Ruby.

    245. Andrew McLean says:

      A Hundred Idiots

      Your extrapolation of my comments is fascinating!

    246. sensibledave says:

      ahundredthidiot 2:28 pm

      All that OK with you sensibledave?

      I have know idea what point you are trying to make – or does the answer lie in your name?

    247. ahundredthidiot says:

      Hahahaha

      Oh how I laughed

      Free Press

      Controlled Press more like – don’t believe me? Check out BBC being ‘cut off’ reporting building 7 collapse while it was still standing

      Free Press – Hilarious

    248. Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby says

      Sorry Ruby,

      ps, stay away from that sensible chap, /www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCjzhDrlTJ8
      🙂

    249. Andrew McLean says:

      sensibledave says:
      18 November, 2015 at 2:32 pm
      Ruby says 2:13 pm

      Sensible “tell me what countries have banned a free press”.
      Boy with hand up at the back , “THE UK SIR!”
      Sensible “no sit down boy”
      http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988–94_British_broadcasting_voice_restrictions

    250. Ruby says:

      sensibledave says:
      18 November, 2015 at 2:37 pm

      I have know idea what point you are trying to make

      Ruby replies

      Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

      Warning: Too much TV can dull the brain Davie Boy!

      Stay alert!

    251. ahundredthidiot says:

      OK Andrew, let me explain, the point I am making is that you give the distinct impression that you think we are the good guys. We’re not. We’re the baddies.

      Let me say that again. We are the baddies.

      Not very nice is it. It’s one of the main reasons I am gutted we never got our independence, because we would’ve been on a road to enlightenment, probably out of NATO in the long run and freed from US slavery.

    252. Ruby says:

      Andrew McLean

      That is a very sad song Andrew! It does however remind us of the horror of war. Winding up that sensible chap is a lot of fun.

      ‘It wasn’t me that started that ol’ crazy Asian war
      But I was proud to go and do my patriotic chore
      And yes it’s true, that I’m not the man I used to be
      But Ruby, I still need some company’

      It’s hard to love a man, whose legs are bent and paralyzed
      And the wants and needs of a woman of your age
      Ruby I realize
      It won’t be long, I’ve heard them say, until I’m not around,
      Oh Ruby, don’t take your love to town’

      This is quite a sad song too:

      http://tinyurl.com/oeo9sou

    253. Andrew McLean says:

      A hundred idiots

      Yes when I said “I take it all with a pinch of salt”, I see where you are going wrong?

      But to be constructive because I do believe your hearts in the right place http://www.positivelypresent.com/2009/10/stop-seeing-life-in-black-white.html

      😉

    254. ahundredthidiot says:

      OK Andrew, I will keep it simple.

      Santa Clause? Real, or not real?

      Or, maybe you see the grey, what with all those chrimbo movies and the spirit of Christmas, confusing the kids, giving false hope in your fellow man.

      We’re the baddies. It really is that simple.

    255. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 2:49 pm

      I note that you haven’t got anything substantive to say in response to my comment to you Ruby.

      I do note the nifty change of subject though – as predicted!

      It is the paucity of your argument and thinking, combined with apparent lack of self awareness that is so stunning. You haven’t stopped for one second to notice that you have virtually no support for your views on banning press coverage from anyone else here on Wings – other than the other odd swivel-eye.

      … empty vessels and all that, Ruby…

    256. ahundredthidiot says:

      Sensibledave

      This is out of sympathy…….stop baiting your hook……you’re beginning to look stupid.

    257. Ruby says:

      sensibledave says:
      18 November, 2015 at 3:20 pm
      Ruby 2:49 pm

      I note that you haven’t got anything substantive to say in response to my comment to you Ruby.

      Ruby Replies

      Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

      Oh Davie Boy you do make me laugh!

      Do you like Bob Dylan?

      http://tinyurl.com/m8dr5j8

    258. Andrew McLean says:

      A hundred Idiots

      you may be a baddie but I am a Goodie!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK7D7ulWzkw

    259. ahundredthidiot says:

      In response to your next. (Haha)

      Who’s the Last Word Freak here? You or me?

    260. Ruby says:

      It looks as if everyone has left this thread.

      One last word!

      Peace!

    261. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 4.19

      …. of course – but the question is how do you get it.

    262. Helena Brown says:

      Hi Senseless, that for you was a particularly weak reply. I firstly never mentioned anywhere in my comment the SNP or what I thought the SNP should or should not do.
      What I did raise was the matter that nobody with International Power has done anything to rein in the warring between Israel and Palestine. What has been done is that whilst a proxy war has been fought in Iraq and Afghanistan by the West, note I said the West, Israel has conducted their own.
      We need to butt out of this, we were instrumental with France in the creation of both Iraq, Syria and Jordan to name but three nations in the region. Our intervention has not brought peace, I fear that was never intended, nor was that the intention with Libya, they too were intending to stop using the oil dollar just like Iraq, and therefore brought down the wrath of the West, both Britain and to a much lesser extent France are creatures of the Dollar.
      So you are the one who seems to be unable to read. I was once asked what made us different, I have today thought long and hard. Strange to say in Edinburgh we have a very prominent monument much like Nelson’s column in London, but on the top of ours is David Hume, a very great man, a philosopher, yours has an Admiral, says it all for me. Just because we seem to be having a war doesn’t mean you have to pitch in.

    263. sensibledave says:

      Helena 4.47

      … what I object to Helena, is your lazy stereotyping and ridiculous comparisons. We were discussing the situation in Syria – then you pipe up with something about Palestine and Israel as if it is something to do with me – and furthermore it somehow proves an argument about what we should, or should not, be doing in Syria.

      I, just like everyone else in the world, am unable to resolve the problem of Israel and Palestine. If you have got a solution that will be agreed by both sides then please share. If you haven’t then you are no better, or worse, than me.

      Somewhere along the line, it appears that some Scot Nats are so hell bent on demonstrating “difference” with the rest of the UK that you will take any contrary position – just to be contrary.

      That is fine. If you think Scotland or the UK should wash its hands of being involved with any matters abroad then that is for you and your conscience.

      If people like the Yazidis or the Libyans or the Bosnians or people in Syria need help, then they, and the rest of the world will know that you don’t think it is right to help. Again that is fine and that is your right.

      However, please do not dare to suggest that your position is obvious the moral high ground.

      Go and try and convince the Bosnians, the libyans and the Yazidis that we helped that we should have let them die – and then come back to me.

    264. K1 says:

      Yes Helena, conscientious objectors were ever regarded as ‘cowards’.

      They were actually the ‘brave’ who articulated the profound lack of humanity of ‘war’ and of how it achieves nothing, in the face of the mob who played ‘follow the leader’.

      They were jailed, ostracised and killed. And of those who did the fighting and survived, their enduring memories have always been that war does not work at resolving human conflict.

      No one dared talk down to Harry Patch:

      “politicians who took us to war should have been given the guns and told to settle their differences themselves, instead of organising nothing better than legalised mass murder.”

    265. Helena Brown says:

      Sensible, or not so sensible, please go back and bleeding read what I actually wrote and not the things you imagine I wrote.
      You are awfully arrogant as I have constantly said, if you think I imagine the world revolves around you. End of.

    266. Ruby says:

      sensibledave says:

      That is fine. If you think Scotland or the UK should wash its hands of being involved with any matters abroad then that is for you and your conscience.

      Ruby Replies

      That depends on what matters you are referring to. You might want to check what your fellow Unionists & your fellow countrymen are saying on The Scotsman. They are 100% opposed to offering help to people from abroad they are totally incensed that refugees are arriving in Scotland.

      My suggestion would be that if you do not have the wisdom or the money to help abroad then you should keep your nose out otherwise you risk just creating a bigger problem. Past evidence would suggest that the UK Gov does not have the wisdom and they most definitely do not have the money.

      It doesn’t matter what people in Scotland or England think because nobody will be asked. In the meantime the ‘perception managers’ will be working hard to persuade people what they should be thinking.

      I have no idea why you post on Wings and not on a website where you can have a discussion with your fellow countrymen. I’m pretty sure that if you did you would find there are plenty of Tories, Labour supporters, LibDems, UKippers, Greens etc in England who share the views of ‘some Scot Nats’ not everyone in England is a jingoistic warmonger.

      You seem to have a very low opinion of all posters on this forum so one has to ask why are you posting here?

    267. Ruby says:

      sensibledave says:

      That is fine. If you think Scotland or the UK should wash its hands of being involved with any matters abroad then that is for you and your conscience.

      Ruby Replies

      It would seem only 20% of the UK’s population want to help.
      80% seem to have washed their hands of being involved with matters abroad.
      I suppose that is for them and their conscience.

      http://tinyurl.com/ou9c5er

    268. Sensibledave says:

      Ruby 6.43

      I gave examples of exactly the people we should have helped: the Bosnians, The Libyans, the
      Yazidis. Are you not capable of reading Ruby? Which of those would you have let die?

      And for the avoidance of doubt, I think that anyone that tries to make these issues something to do with Scottish Independence is complete fool.

    269. Ken500 says:

      @ Lenny Hartley – 17 November, at 10.37 pm

      Re Debt UK/US

      The UK/US debt is more than likely under estimated compared to Eurozone members. Eurozone members have to keep a tighter control on their economy to keep to required balance sheet. Revenue debt/ relationship management.

      The EC central bank can’t print money. Germany is reluctant to do so because of the Weimar Period when Germany printed money and almost went bust. (1920’s) Inflation was rife. After the 1WW. The currency was becoming worthless. 1933 The Wall Street crash. Those economic linked went bust.

      Germany goes a major say (largest population) The German surplus (assets) helps bankrolls the EU central Bank as collateral. To stimulate their economy the European Central Bank have printed some money but (pro rata) a very limited amount, in comparison with UK/US.

      If UK/US accounts/balance sheet were business accounts they are in such bad shape, they would be closed down, charged with fraud and put in jail. A total disaster. That is why Brown/Blair should be in jail. The illegal war was kept off the balance. Until the GE changes happened. That is when the debt came to be acknowledged and made public.

      The UK/US do have assets. The only way they have not gone bankrupt.

      UK assets (including Scotland’s)) are reported as £8.7Trillion. – £1.5Trillion of debt (increasing). Government building, real estate, bank deposits, painting, land values, houses, jewels shares and property etc.

      US assets are reported as $48Trillion? – €18Trillion debt.

      It could be a cover up.

      1WW started because Russia (Czar) invaded Germany because Interdependent European Treaties. European monarchy were inbred. Cousins married cousins. Their parents were cousins. The cousins British (Edward?) and German (Kaiser), tried to persuade (cousin) Czar not to invade but he would not listen, and mobilised. Germany was defeating Russia. 1917 Russian Revolution. Millions died. People starved. After 1WW Germany printed money. Weinmar Period 1920’s.

      Votes for women 1918. Universal suffrage in Britain 1928.

      Germany 80Million pop. UK 62Million. US 300Million pop.

    270. Ruby says:

      Sensibledave says

      And for the avoidance of doubt, I think that anyone that tries to make these issues something to do with Scottish Independence is complete fool.

      Ruby Replies

      Why is that?

      What exactly do you think Scottish Independence means?

      I get the impression you think everyone is a complete fool except yourself.

      Are you capable of reading Davie Boy? It seems you have omitted to read my post you always avoid answering my questions preferring instead to subject me to abuse.

      Why is that Davie Boy?

    271. Sensibledave says:

      … You did your usual nifty change of subject Ruby. You did a divert from discussing military action to rufugees. Having been asked to explain your position on our previous actions: Bosnians, Libyans, Yazidis – you jump to talking about a different subject where you hope you might have some support.

      You do it every time Ruby.

    272. Sandy Henderson says:

      Reading the many, many posts of a certain party on here has become extremely tedious. Either he has missed his goal on life or has opted out of the general social society that most of us enjoy. Either that, or he has been banned from said places or had too many pokes in the eye for his own safety. Genius or madness, small margin between. Insanity, a different thing altogether.
      A wise man utters few words.

    273. Ruby says:

      Sensibledave says:
      18 November, 2015 at 11:45 pm
      … You did your usual nifty change of subject Ruby. You did a divert from discussing military action to rufugees. Having been asked to explain your position on our previous actions: Bosnians, Libyans, Yazidis – you jump to talking about a different subject where you hope you might have some support.

      You do it every time Ruby.

      Ruby Replies

      You’ve been let down again by another poster here on Wings. It seems all the posters on Wings let you down.

      Why don’t you just give up and find another forum where people will live up to your expectations?

      Bye!

    274. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 11.09

      …. Its my role in life to educate and lead people back to the light. I listened to Ms Sturgeon on the radio this morning – you might need to have some harsh words with her in the not too distant future.

    275. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 11.09

      Oh, and by the way, I am interested in your definition of “abuse”. Is it a phrase like “empty vessels make the most noise”, as written by me – or is it the “BritNat, Hate Preaching, etc, etc,” type stuff so often used, so charmingly, by you?

    276. Andrew McLean says:

      Sensible Dave,
      The light you shine to enlighten us is Satan’s Black Light, and that we have had enough of from you lot.

      ‘Cos a light shines on that helps you to steer
      Makes everything clear
      (Well it might)
      Well it might in your world
      (but it doesn’t)
      But it doesn’t in mine
      (I’ve been stumbling)
      I’ve been stumbling in the dark for years
      And the light just made me blind
      Yeah the light just made me blind

    277. sensibledave says:

      Andrew 11.58

      Ah, The Proclaimers at their best!

      Acts 26:18 – I’m actually an Atheist but the bible contains some good stuff: “….. to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me (where “Me” is sensibledave!).

    278. Andrew McLean says:

      Hey sensible am no kneeling down to be sanctified by you! What Blasphemy comparing yourself to God,

      Actually a better quote would have been

      “For them that quail to bring men out of ignorance, as I have quailed, and as you quail now when you know in all your black hearts that this be fraud – God damns our kind especially, and we will burn, we will burn together.

      There fixed it for you!

    279. Ruby says:

      Yes! Air punch! Scored again!

      Winding up Old Davie Boy is just too easy!

      Ha! Ha! Ha! He! He! He!

      He’s probably got huge blisters on the tips of his fingers with all this ranting & raving & UKOK BritNat Better Together Hate Preaching here on Wings!

    280. Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby
      He will be a card carrying independence supporter if it kills me!

    281. sensibledave says:

      Andrew 1.22

      ….. to be absolutely honest, if there is a god, and if he requires me to confirm that he is the only god, and we wants me to repeated praise him and tell him how wonderful, great, merciful, etc, he is – then he is a very, very vain god.

      If, for whatever reason, I chose not to believe in him, then, apparently, I shall be condemned to eternal flame – which seems like a bit of an over reaction in all fairness – and makes him a vicious god.

      On the basis of just those two rather unattractive traits, he is not someone I care to concern myself with.

      And don’t get me started on all the wars started in his honour. To square the circle from much of the thread above, how many people are being killed each year in honour of their version of god?

    282. Andrew McLean says:

      Or their Queen and Country?

    283. Ruby says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      19 November, 2015 at 1:35 pm
      Ruby
      He will be a card carrying independence supporter if it kills me!

      Ruby replies

      But Old Davie Boy doesn’t have a vote! He’s one of the ‘love bombers’

      He wants you to ‘lie back and think of England’ He believes England is Better Together! Hence all the ‘UKOK Better Together BritNat Arrogrant Patronising Hate Preaching’

      By the looks of things he seems to be looking for some spiritual guidance I might suggest he look into Buddhism. If nothing else he would definitely benefit for some Buddhist meditation he appears to be really wound up!

    284. Andrew McLean says:

      Ruby says: 2:19
      He wants you to ‘lie back and think of England’ Ruby you took that too far I think I just puked in my mouth!

      Looking at his time line you only get 30 min lunch in GCHQ, I feel sorry for him, you canny get time for a coffee there its always packed.

    285. sensibledave says:

      Ruby 2.19

      Today is a good day Ruby! The ageing Golden Retriever didnt pee on the floor overnight, West Ham are 6th in the Premiership, Oxford United beat Barnet in the cup, I’ve mowed the lawn for the last time until the spring and I am looking forward to stew and dumps for tea tonight.

      Nothing, not even some loony partisan accusing me of hatred, will spoil my day!

    286. Andrew McLean says:

      Sensible are Stew and Dumps you’re imaginary friends?
      But pleased to hear your old dog is well, But my money is on Tottenham Hotspur on Sunday, As for Oxford I was at their first mach in the new stadium, cant remember who was playing Crystal Palace comes to mind.

    287. sensibledave says:

      Andrew 3.34

      … I was at White Hart Lane last season. We were 2 – 0 up until the last 10 minutes. This season is about survival! we are half way there – then we move to The New Stadium – and here’s the thing – The New Stadium is a perfect Anagram of West Ham United! Spooky.

      Once equipped with one of the best stadiums in the country (acquired for about 2 quid (cheers Boris!)) we will wait to be courted by Oligarchs and Sheiks and we can get to work on the shopping list. Ronaldo and Messi playing together with Pogba and Muller – we can dream – but then they will fade and die and we will flatter to deceive as always!

    288. Andrew McLean says:

      Of course you do get a lot of revenue from TV rights that Scottish teams don’t, and we Scots paid for the Olympics, but you lot didn’t for the Commonwealth games so enjoy your new stadium!
      See everything is about Independence.

    289. sensibledave says:

      Andrew 4.19

      …. to be fair, the whole of the UK has paid for our new Stadium – and I am grateful to everyone for the gift!

      On the subject of football in Scotland, didn’t they used to have a national team? I may be mistaken, but I am sure I remember competitions where there was a Scotland team entered. Maybe my memory is playing tricks.

      More seriously, back in the day, a certain Frank McAvennie moved from midfield to play as striker for West Ham. He formed a partnership with Tony Cottee and lead the Hammers to their highest ever top league finish – 3rd! Sadly, most of his goals were never seen by most as his success coincided with a dispute over television money – but those were our glory days. Will we ever see their like again.

    290. Grouse Beater says:

      Dippy Dave: “Its my role in life to educate and lead people back to the light.”

      Jeezus. Better tethered



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