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The sacrificial bams

Posted on November 18, 2015 by

The Additional Member System by which the Scottish Parliament elects its MSPs is a fascinating construct. One of its functions, at least in theory, is to ensure that every party gets its best and brightest talents into the Holyrood chamber, by providing them with a “second chance” in the form of the regional lists.

The Conservatives, for example, would be hard pushed to ever get their leader elected if they could only contest constituency seats. Ruth Davidson got a pitiful 1,845 votes in Glasgow Kelvin in 2011, and whatever you think of the Tories it’s hard to dispute that she’s one of their more able operators. (Faint praise though that may be.)

bunchofcharlies

One weakness of the system is that regional MSPs are sometimes seen as “second class” members, having been personally (and in Davidson’s case, comprehensively) rejected by the electorate but still snuck in against the voters’ wishes under cover of the list. But in the current era of remarkable domination by the SNP, for the opposition it’s increasingly being chosen to fight for a constituency that’s the booby prize.

In 2013 we published an article called “Burning the lifeboats”, noting that Labour had to all intents and purposes conceded the 2016 Holyrood election by choosing all of its constituency candidates almost two and a half years in advance, ensuring there’d be no escape route into a safe Holyrood seat for any Westminster MPs in the event of a Yes vote. (Or, as it turned out, if they were wiped out in 2015.)

“The MSP group has basically been turned into a suicide battalion, because this is as close to an open concession of the 2016 election to the SNP as could be imagined”, we said at the time. And that prediction has come true, because for Scottish Labour a constituency nomination or list seat – once prize tickets to a job for life – is now like trying to get off the Titanic with a piano chained to your ankle.

On current polling Scottish Labour will lose every single constituency seat it holds, and will only retain a presence at Holyrood at all thanks to list top-ups. Until 2012 that would have meant curtains for every sitting constituency member, because the party didn’t allow candidates to both contest seats and appear on the list, but a rule change aimed at protecting what passes for their best talent now makes that possible.

But that creates its own headaches. Some former MPs – most notably ex-deputy leader Anas Sarwar – have announced their intention to seek list nominations for next May, leaving Scottish Labour in the awkward position of throwing sitting MSPs under the bus in an attempt to parachute in candidates who aren’t even going to TRY to get elected on their own merits.

Having promised to “bring in fresh faces”, Kezia Dugdale now has to contemplate handing seats to a whole series of candidates who were unceremoniously hoofed out on their backsides by voters just six months ago, and who won’t even have dared to present their faces to the electorate again this time round.

It’s an unseemly way to treat the public, but Labour appears to be realising it has little choice. The branch office’s current deputy leader Alex Rowley has this week reneged on a pledge NOT to stand for both a constituency and the list, in the seeming belief that he has no chance of securing a seat by the former route.

Labour has also revoked its previous rules which protected sitting regional MSPs by guaranteeing them slots at the top of the list. The upshot of all the changes is that anyone either selected to contest a constituency or who’s already a list MSP has now been left holding a ticking time bomb. What used to be the Labour Party’s box seats are now on trapdoors.

Anyone fighting a constituency without a back-up list spot will be doomed. Rowley, Sarwar and Docherty’s decisions indicate that would-be candidates – whether sitting MSPs, displaced MPs or new faces – will now have to fight like rats in a sack for precious list places, with the situation exacerbated by Dugdale’s promise that half of all new candidates will be women.

(Sitting male MSPs, knowing that the exit door is likely to be one-way, will battle all the more desperately to cling onto their positions.)

Already a shattered, demoralised mess, seven months out from an election Scottish Labour is about to embark on a bout of internecine warfare that even by its own brutal standards will make the scramble for the last helicopter out of Saigon look like a genteel garden party. And what were once its most favoured sons and daughters are those most likely to be left behind.

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    379 to “The sacrificial bams”

    1. Arabs for Independence says:

      This is going to be very messy and nasty. I for one will enjoy them turning on each other as this is a situation all of their own making.

    2. galamcennalath says:

      It is not going to be pretty, is it? A mad scramble for those too 3-5 list slots which have some hope of winning. The top 1 or 2 probably come with a guarantee of a seat (almost).

      This is going to be a big moral test for Kezia and SLab.

      Priority should go to sitting and experienced MSPs. And, they wish gender balance, then that is a valid aim which should be factored in.

      By my reckoning, sacked MPs should all be in positions 5 downwards.

    3. Hamish McTavish says:

      Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of reprobates.

    4. Donald MacDonald says:

      Oh dear. What a pity. Never mind.

      Must contain my sympathy within acceptable bounds.

    5. Greannach says:

      Energised and excited by the thought of major Branch talents appearing in Holyrood which will turn into a powerhouse parliament if only it could benefit from the skills and experience of the likes of Anas Sarwar, Margaret Curran, Ann McKechin, John Robertson, Frank Roy, Fiona O’Donnell, Tom Harris, Ian Davidson and Willie Somebody. Their contribution would be as stellar as it was in Westminster.

    6. Marie Clark says:

      Oh dear, this ain’t good, is it?

      Can SLAB maybe explain to us, the electorate, why we should even consider voting for them if they allow the former MP’s that we booted out in May, to stand for Holyrood?

      It’s going to get very messy indeed. Oh well, more popcorn anyone?

      I’m away tae check the buttons oan the back o ma heid.

    7. Macart says:

      Oh, this has bear pit written all over it. They’ll be queuing up to stab each other in the back and then of course there is another problem for Ms Dugdale.

      If any of said parachuted ex Westminster ‘talent’ does make a list seat and the expected destruction of Labour continues at the Holyrood elections, what price Kezia’s branch managership?

    8. Tamson says:

      Does anyone know how visible the candidate lists are? ISTR they were available at polling stations, or possibly even printed on the list ballot beside the party name in previous elections.

      Imagine a Glasgow regional list ballot that read:

      Scottish Labour: Anas Sarwar, Margaret Curran, Gordon Mathieson, Johann Lamont…

    9. EphemeralDeception says:

      Most of their plackards should have written:
      =============
      Je Suis Baisé
      =============

    10. Richard says:

      Pass the popcorn please! 🙂

    11. Training Day says:

      Labour’s career arc:

      1. Say that you ‘passionately’ believe in the UK and attempt to get elected to the cesspit on the Thames
      2. When that fails, say that you ‘passionately’ believe in devolved government and attempt to get elected to Holyrood
      3. When that fails, say that you ‘passionately’ believe in local government and attempt to get elected to a council seat
      4. When that fails, join the production team of Scotland 2015.

    12. yerkitbreeks says:

      Am I right in thinking that the Sarwar Dynasty is trying to hold on by bribing Labour with a slap up “do” funded by the family ?

    13. One_Scot says:

      To be fair to “Scottish” Labour, Labour MP/MSPs have never been in the job for the honour and privilege of representing their constituents.

      It’s no secret that they are only there for self interest, greed and the chance to ride the Gravy Train. So if they are given the opportunity to push themselves on the train, then that’s what they’ll do.

    14. ahundredthidiot says:

      Great piece Rev, which is why I will be putting a fiver on the Tories forming the opposition.

      I almost feel sorry for wee Kez…….almost.

    15. Davy says:

      Aye the likes of Anas Sarwar who got his earse totally kicked out by the people of Scotland, then does’nt have the guts to stand for a MSP place on his own merits, instead has to try and crawl back into politics by using the list.

      what a gutless chickenshite, I hope labours own members recognise what he and some of the rest of labour MP rejects are doing and don’t vote them onto the lists.

      Honestly how are you going to set your party right by taking back last elections rejects, take a hint labour.

    16. “Scottish” Labour can place as many tartan flavoured logos on their pamphlets as they wish but the fact remains that it is London’s Labour (North British Accounting Unit) that people will or will not be voting for in 2016.

      Can we end the silly pretence that “Scottish” Labour is an autonomous, independent political party, once & for all?
      Same for “Scottish” Conservatives & the “Scottish” Liberal Democrats.

      Look at it this way. It doesn’t matter how much Irn Bru is guzzled to wash down a vertical rotisserie of questionable meat smothered in Daddy’s brown sauce, it’s still a Doner Kebab.

      Allegedly.

    17. The Man in the Jar says:

      Thank you SLab. This will surely provide some amusing reading over the winter months. Just the job!

    18. Nana says:

      There will be blood. Advice to slab “invest in mops”

    19. No no no...Yes says:

      The Labour Party at both UK Level and its branch office are heading of oblivion at an increasing speed, fuelled by their self interest, greed and sheer desperation:

      Corbyn has never really been in charge and the parliamentary party are likely to defy him when they vote against the SNP motion to scrap Trident. If that’s not enough to oust him, his credibility will be zero and the impact from this vote alone will hasten the demise of the Branch office.

      To make matters even worse, how can Alex Rowley expect the trust of Labour supporters who voted for him as deputy leader when he has had a ‘change of mind’ in standing for a regional seat? If the supporters lose their trust, he has NO chance of with voters.

      This “political party” has just gift wrapped an early Christmas present for the SNP.

      As for Kez, she will be gone after the Holyrood elections- shafted by the coup currently waiting in the Regional List wings. She is powerless to stop it.

    20. Jim Mitchell says:

      This should be fun!

    21. robertknight says:

      Popcorn? Check!

      Comfy seat? Check!

      Appropriate beverage? Check!

    22. Bob Mack says:

      This has to be made into a mini series. Endless machinations on how to destroy each others chances whilst smiling to the camera and hugging each other claiming unity in the name of Corbyn and the people of Scotland.

      Meanwhile ,Corbyn will be getting stabbed in the back over action in Syria by his own MP’s.

      Popcorn ? Surely this is must view with Coke,ice cream and a bag of pick and mix,and a recliner

    23. One_Scot says:

      Call to all unionist political has-beens, come to Holyrood, enter Scottish politics through the ‘Cowards Door’

      I can see a cartoon in the making.

    24. Inverclyder says:

      Oh dear, what a pity, that’s a shame.

      The excuses for not being elected will be the unfair and SNP biased electoral system and SNP Bad.

      Popcorn at the ready!

    25. mealer says:

      Popcorn required.We know that Scottish Labour is a shell supported by a light framework of MSPs,an MP and councillors along with some family members and a few activists.A huge proportion of active branch members will be seeking a place on the list.I doubt if their branch structure,already in dire straits,will survive this.

    26. Dcanmore says:

      ooo and I thought a couple of cinema outings this Christmas was going to be tasty. Love the term ‘internecine warfare’ reminds me of that 70s classic The Internecine Project, watching a group of nasty people self inflict their demise.

      Thanks for the entertainment Labour, keep it up!

    27. heedtracker says:

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ken-livingstone-blasts-labour-rival-6853409#ICID=sharebar_twitter

      South of border, England’s red toryboy world gets stuck in to the big issues of the day, attacking each other.

    28. Luigi says:

      Given the Red Tory habit of back-stabbing colleagues, the prevailing dog-eat-dog attitude, and the rapidly disappearing trough opportunities, this was inevitable, I suppose. If Sarwar and a few other ex-MPs think they can get selected for the regional lists, good luck to them. Remember the difficulty Jim Murphy had getting one of the Labour MSPs to stand aside and allow him to join Holyrood.

      Yep, it’s a sack of ferrets fighting over diminishing resources. There will be blood everywhere. It will be interesting to see who are the last ones standing after the dust settles.

    29. gordoz says:

      Will there be room for Alex Bell or any other Tories ?

    30. joe macfarlane says:

      Slab version of the hunger Games, its gonna be kill or be killed, bookies soon be taking bets which lab big gun ex-mp
      will be new Slab leader after poor result in May, definitely interesting time ahead.

    31. bobajock says:

      Licking my lips at the prospect of seeing ‘The Branch’, some new reality TV.

      Contestants get to smarm their way in, backed up by none other than Kezza – democracy from the edge. They get put on a list, and depending on how disgusted Scotland is, some get a top wage for 4 years or so.

      Of course, unionists need a voice, its just that they find it hard to speak with after the ‘hack off’ in episode 6, where they turn a’la ‘Battle Royal’ on one another.

      TV idea courtesy of me.

    32. schrodingers cat says:

      the situation exacerbated by Dugdale’s promise that half of all new candidates will be women.

      easily solved, kezia justs needs to ensure the number of women/men ratio on the list is 50/50

      since only the 1st 4 or 5 will get elected from the list

      bear in mind, the list can be upto 16/17 candidates long
      eg, the snp could put all 9 candidates from all 9 constituencies in ne Scotland on the ne Scotland regional list. they would, by 2011 results, still need to put one more candidate on the list

      there is plenty wriggle room for kez to fulfil her “vow” but for London labour to gerrymander the lists to ensure they get who they want into holyrood

      the fall out after should be fun, I’ve been looking forward to this bun fight.

      bear in mind, even though it is accepted by most that the snp are going to take 70-73 of the constituencies, the refusal by many on social media to countenance the idea of voting tactically on the list ballot for other indy parties/monster raving loon party etc, means that labour will win an average of 4 msp’s from each region.

      not that it matters now

    33. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ““Scottish” Labour can place as many tartan flavoured logos on their pamphlets as they wish but the fact remains that it is London’s Labour (North British Accounting Unit) that people will or will not be voting for in 2016.

      Can we end the silly pretence that “Scottish” Labour is an autonomous, independent political party, once & for all?”

      Every single person reading this website already knows that. Is it really necessary to keep going on and on and on and on about it?

      That was a rhetorical question, btw.

    34. Janet says:

      I’m looking forward to next May’s election, too!

      But just one word of warning! The neocons might very well embark on a prolonged military campaign, and use it as a tool to whip up jingoism amongst the proles!

      When push comes to shove and the MSM go looking for warm words of support from the political class, they might very well pick up on the lukewarm nature of the Yes movement, and use that to dent the Nats. Remember: Corbyn the Squirrel can speak out against military action whilst his branch manager says something else!

      Next May might not be the picnic that we expect!

    35. kininvie says:

      Does anyone know how Scottish Labour ranks its regional list MSP candidates? Are the rankings voted on by members (as in the SNP) or are they ‘negotiated’?

    36. James Kay says:

      Has it yet been decided whether the next Holyrood election will be in 2019 or 2021?

      If the latter, then anyone elected as an MSP next year will have the choice of going for Westminster while still sitting in Edinburgh. It is possible that by then the SNP might not be so dominant, and there will be a fair chance that several constituencies will elect Labour MPs.

      Each ex MP should make clear that if he/she seeks election to Holyrood next year, then that will be their priority. No jumping to what – they think as – the ‘big parliament’ at any opportune moment.

      Will our MSM journalists ask this question?

    37. John Edgar says:

      Interesting times. But will the unionist msm and BBC Scotland report it in detail? That is the question!

    38. Steve Bowers says:

      Excellent stuff, it’ll make canvassing all the more fun

    39. Haggis Hunter says:

      Its a Strammash, things not good at the ‘Scottish’ branch of the LabServativeDem and BBC STV Media Unionist Party

    40. Jack Murphy says:

      heedtracker said at 12:04pm:-
      [Labour] “South of border, England’s red toryboy world gets stuck in to the big issues of the day, attacking each other.”

      Here’s the Archived Lnk to the Mirror–a quote:-
      “Labour’s civil war exploded today after Ken Livingstone said a Shadow Defence Minister who suffered with depression “might need some psychiatric help”.
      The former London Mayor claimed Labour MP Kevan Jones “should see his GP” after Mr Jones questioned whether he should be leading a review of Labour’s defence policies.
      Mr Livingstone told the Mirror: “I think he might need some psychiatric help. He’s obviously very depressed and disturbed.
      “He should pop off and see his GP before he makes these offensive comments.”

      The shocking outburst came as Labour’s deep divisions over its military policies raged into the open.

      Mr Jones said today: “I find these comments gravely offensive not just personally but also to the many thousands who suffer from mental illness.” 🙁

      https://archive.is/USYuF

    41. Camz says:

      The Labour Party keeps on giving, as it repeatedly fails to face up to why its candidates were rejected in May.

      As you say, the list vote will act as a backdoor for these people, and if nothing else, it will demonstrate who is in charge.

      Is it Kezia? Is it Jeremy? Or is it the old guard of rejected SLAB MPs?

    42. Ruby says:

      EphemeralDeception says:
      18 November, 2015 at 11:41 am
      Most of their plackards should have written:
      =============
      Je Suis Baisé
      =============

      Ruby replies

      Does that have the same meaning as

      Je Suis Foutu

    43. Fred says:

      Jackie Bailley, a piano? my money’s on the piano.

    44. craig murray says:

      Anyone else see Anwar Sarwar given huge amounts of TV time yesterday to promote his comeback, with horribly obsequious questioning? I forgot to note the channel, as I was too busy first vomiting and then running out the door screaming.

    45. MJS Dundee says:

      Hmm … .

      SNP members were asked to vote in determining who was where in their regional lists. Turned up an occasional odd result, no doubt aided by the gender fiddling, e.g. Kevin Stewart being way down the NE list – despite his sterling service and him having the narrowest constituency majority in the NE. Not so good from that specific I suppose, but the general process was fair and open. However …

      Are we to presume that the SLab membership (both of them) get no democratic say in what those SLab list places look like? What a shocker! Slap-up Sarwar-funded bribes, whoops I mean fundraisers, we hear? Reneging on earlier decisions when the 6′ high writing on the wall 4″ away is eventually spotted. The previously rejected losers slumber oot from their damp places having well sharpened their elbows. Ach well …, there’s something to be said for the keeping of traditions I suppose.

      And what a problem for the Tory press!? Do they make a big deal about SLaB vs SLab and sell tickets (e.g. do they really believe Ruthie will make off with the fleeing SLab votes) – or do they try and play it down in the hope they’re not simply sending those votes to the SNP by express delivery? Problems problems … .

      Dontcha just love it when nae plan at a’ comes together?

      Anyone know where one can buy shares in the provision of popcorn?

    46. Jim Mitchell says:

      Just to say, that’s one scary picture. It might come in useful though if used to keep the bairns back from the fire!

    47. BrianW says:

      I look forward to BBC Scotland’s in depth analysis on the very subject – Coming to a Teletext Screen near you no doubt!

    48. Well, Well you could knock me over with a feather, Labour have lied again about their candidates only being able to stand either for the constituency or the list but not both.

      Again is anyone surprised at these ex Labour MPs who are now scrambling to get themselves into Holyrood parliament, a place they had no interest in being elected to before?

    49. DerekM says:

      great work Rev yea what a right old pickle to themselves in ,they are a total shambles but its fun to watch them all fight to get their noses in the trough as unelected MSP`s,i wonder if the next parliament will only have elected SNP members how would that work out if all the other parties failed in the constituency vote,doesnt seem right that for some reason but i guess its the flaw in PR.

    50. Sinky says:

      I thought the leader of the North British Accounting Unit was standing for a constituency in Edinburgh.

      Does anyone know if she is going for the consolation prize on the Lothian list?

      Does anyone know when Labour will be consulting their members on the List order of “merit”?

    51. Robert Peffers says:

      @Marie Clark says: 18 November, 2015 at 11:39 am:

      “It’s going to get very messy indeed. Oh well, more popcorn anyone?”

      No Thanks tae yon pop-corn, Hen, It gies mi afu bad wind.

      Tak an Auld man’s advice, get yer heid fitted wi a zip. Whan ye get aulder yer fingers dinna wirk sae muckle weel.

    52. Bill Fraser says:

      It would seem we are destined to have “hard labor”inflicted on us at the election.And perish the thought that the landed gentry A.K.A. Tories will be the main opposition!!!

    53. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      Posted on last thread but more appropriate on this one. 🙂

      From Scot Goes Pop from Scottish Skier…

      “SNP 54% and 56% in UK Survation and ICM poll subsamples respectively.

      Labour 17% in both.”

      Labour still in terminal decline – even before the internecine battles commence to get on these “safe” list seats.

      I wonder what level they will be at come May 16?

      If this continues their 2nd or 3rd list seats will also be under threat. So best stab everyone in the back to secure that top list place!

      Scottish Labour – Backwards and Downwards…

    54. heedtracker says:

      Jack Murphy says:
      18 November, 2015 at 12:21 pm
      heedtracker said at 12:04pm:-

      Thanks. Same crew that helped open up the gates of hell in the middle east, now attack each other.

      In their Scotland region, red tory unionist zealots go on cybernat hunts

      Scott Arthur ?@DrScottThinks 17h17 hours ago
      Some of the quite crude tweets from @clairerobsc56/@clairerobsc1 look very different now that we know she is a man.

      Interesting online development for Slabour hard core unionists in Scotland. Could also explain why so many cybernats prefer anonymity. They could well end up being hunted online by likes of unionist up there and even front page news on neo fascists newspapers like the Daily Heil, for not voting NO, red and blue tory etc.

      Welcome to red tory unionism in their Scotland region.

    55. Martin Wood says:

      Man I am going to enjoy this!

      Time to break out the beer and popcorn again!

      Woo Hoo

    56. It is just like Napolean said I can beat anything bar stupidity

    57. davidb says:

      Its lucky their party has an expert in Crisis Management Initiatives.

    58. Robert Peffers says:

      @yerkitbreeks says: 18 November, 2015 at 11:47 am:

      “Am I right in thinking that the Sarwar Dynasty is trying to hold on by bribing Labour with a slap up “do” funded by the family ?”

      Aye! Yer richt.

    59. David McDowell says:

      Sounds like The Hunger Games. My money’s on Baillie to end up with all the pies.

    60. Big Jock says:

      Bringing back Sarwar et.al. Who were comprehensively rejected at WM GE. Is excellent news for us. They will further the cause of independence. As someone once said:”Bring it on”…..now if we could only get rid of their list seats?

    61. HandandShrimp says:

      I hadn’t given this much thought….but now I have

      🙂

    62. donald anderson says:

      Remember the last round of Labour at |Holyrood? They kicked oot sitting Cooncillors in Glasgow so as they could up the gene pool by taking their seats as non bams. Frank McAveety and co?

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @One_Scot says: 18 November, 2015 at 12:01 pm:

      “Call to all unionist political has-beens, come to Holyrood, enter Scottish politics through the ‘Cowards Door’

      I can see a cartoon in the making.”

      If I could just draw what I see in my mind’s eye, One Scot, I could do that cartoon.

      I see a long corridor with a door on either side in the middle distance.

      One door is marked, “Exit”, and the other marked, “Emergency Exit”.

      The Exit door, when opened, leads to a long flight of stairs into a deep, dark cellar.

      The other marked, “Emergency Exit”, leads to the same deep, dark cellar …

      but without the stairs.

    64. Wuffing Dug says:

      Ha ha, this is going to be entertaining.

      Love the title.

      Let’s make it part II: SNP + SNP = the silence of the bams.

      Even funnier SLAB and ‘talent’.

      They couldn’t even aspire to mediocrity, never mind adequacy.

      Being merely shite is maybe a specific, achievable goal for them 🙂

    65. Breeks says:

      Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

      Slabour: Wheeling out rejected candidates over and over again and expecting to win, after the BBC discredit the SNP on their behalf.

    66. Grouse Beater says:

      Official: “If we unite together we can defeat ISIL in a matter of months”
      Official: “If we work as a coalition we can defeat Iraq in months”

    67. Iain says:

      All I can say to Labour, you reap what you sow! Standing next to the Tories at the referendum was such a good idea. I can’t wait to see you ripping yourself to bits. Time for the popcorn.

    68. Pam McMahon says:

      Dear God. Magrit Curran to provide “gender balance” on SLab list of failed MPs for Holyrood? Next branch manager?
      Life just keeps getting better.

    69. Athena says:

      Has anyone pointed out that Kezia will need to pick her list-topping place very carefully as well. And it’s not great for the Leader to be seen as giving up on fighting for a constituency seat. Has she said what she is doing?

    70. Sharny Dubs says:

      Awww my heart bleeds, I’m all misty eye’s and lumpy custard.

    71. Now's the Hour says:

      Maybe they could hire the services of J. Murphy, resolver of issues, to mediate and come up with a solution? I’m sure he’d be glad of the work.

    72. DerekM says:

      @ Bill Fraser

      bring em on Bill its time we got those jokers in the hot seat that is the opposition benches of the Scottish parliament,then we can shine a big spotlight on them for all the cuts coming without their Red Tory chums creating mis-direction,and i know who my money would be on to win that head to head,

      the big question is what will the Scottish Labour bias press do will they still back Labour or will they back the Tories now that will be interesting to watch.

    73. Chic McGregor says:

      Cartoon suggestion.
      The Alexander non-brothers with parachutes on at the head of the queue looking out the plane door down towards Holyrood.

      Dougie is saying “My but that is a small target to hit.”

      Danny is saying “I can’t even see mine.”

    74. Chic McGregor says:

      @Now’s the Hour
      “Maybe they could hire the services of J. Murphy, resolver of issues, to mediate and come up with a solution? I’m sure he’d be glad of the work.”

      Maybe with some particular guidance on how best to bring about a peaceful outcome from Tony Blair, for a fat fee of course.

    75. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Labour in Scotland have a knack, bordering on genius, of being able to snatch a rout from the jaws of a simple drubbing.

      remarkable.

    76. gus1940 says:

      Compare and contrast with today’s attempt by The Herald to portray strife within The SNP.

      It would appear that their Shotts members want to form a separate branch from Airdrie but Airdrie are against that.

      Sensational stuff compared with the impending battles within Labour.

      At least The SNP are showing signs of continuing expansion unlike Kez’s pathetic lot.

    77. Bob Mack says:

      It gets better and better,
      Apparently Hilary Benn is now in charge of Labours response to Defence, and not Jeremy Corbyn according to Labour MP’s. When asked if they would follow Mr Corbyns lead on defence, they both replied “Mr Benn is in charge of defence”

      I wonder if those enthused by electing a Socialist in touch with Labours roots, have woken up yet to the reality of the Labour Party.

    78. Chic McGregor says:

      Follow up vision.

      The Alexander’s descending together in kilts singing the chorus to ‘For these are my Mountains’, no lyric tweak required.

      Don’t know which one gets the accordion.

      Still not enough to reinstate their image of Scottishness though.

    79. jimnarlene says:

      Bunch of rejects, backstabbing each other as SLab continues to implode, hell mend them.

      SNPx2

    80. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Has anyone pointed out that Kezia will need to pick her list-topping place very carefully as well. And it’s not great for the Leader to be seen as giving up on fighting for a constituency seat. Has she said what she is doing?”

      I’ve been trying to find out for sure all morning, but it seems that the story in the Herald in 2013 about Labour’s constituency candidates all being done and dusted by January 2014 has turned out to be wrong, for whatever reason. So we don’t know yet who’ll be contesting seats, and we don’t know if Dugdale – who of course is a list MSP now – will put herself before the electorate in her own right.

    81. BigMac says:

      Shouldn’t there be a minimum number of votes or percentage of the total votes that a list candidate must achieve before they can be elected as an MSP?
      It seems crazy that someone could be elected from the list with say a thousand votes when another member of a more successful party may not be elected, even though they might have gained more than 5 times the number of votes.
      Am I right in thinking that is what could happen?

    82. jimnarlene says:

      @ cynicalHighlander

      Cracker. Says it all.

    83. Craig P says:

      I’d love to see some progressives in Holyrood for once. Serious, highly-respected legislators of the integrity and calibre of Frank Roy, Jimmy Hood, Tommy Docherty, Tom Clarke, Anas Sarwar, Willie Bain. It is this star quality that Holyrood is lacking at the moment if you ask me. 😉

      However I suspect Labour’s ex-MPs are about to discover – if they haven’t already – that they are held in as little esteem by Labour’s existing MSPs as they are by the electorate who booted them out on their arses in May.

    84. broonpot says:

      A new blood sport in the offing – male and female red tory rats in a sack.

      Not sure it will be legal and it certainly won’t be democratic but it should be fun, even for the squeamish

      Just hope the sack “leaks” and we get ALL the gory details – certainly not courtesy of BBC Scotland

      Anyone opening a book?

    85. Jack Murphy says:

      Anas Sarwar is fair excited on his Twitter today:-

      “Labour remains the best vehicle for change in our country. So I’ve finally made a decision…. I’m in! “

    86. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      gus1940 at 1.47

      Which is usually an evidence of strength. Coatbridge as I understand now has four branches instead of the one it had until last year.
      Airdie and Shotts are distinct communities in their own right

    87. gus1940 says:

      O/T

      Having examined the pathetically low viewing figures for Political Broadcast Programming demonstated by the latest survey highlighted on Wings it got me thinking once again on the subject of whether or not The Referendum was rigged.

      There have been several scenarios presented as to how it could have been rigged and the best I have seen so far is The Dunoon Report. Most of the scenarios have predictably been laughed out of court by our wonderful media.

      My suspicions have not been in the area of The Postal Vote but in the possible rigging of The Electoral Roll to facilitate fradulent voting via The Postal Vote.

      In the run-up to the Referendum it was shouted from the rooftops just how many people had rushed to register – if I remember correctly the figure was 97%.

      I always thought that this figure was ludicrouslly impossible to achieve but by publicising it the possibility of creating huge numbers of fraudulent entries on the Roll was created and the high alleged turnout enabled any rigging to be disguised.

      Now we have the tiny % of viewers for the political programs which kind of contradicts the massive interest in politics surrounding the referendum and raises questions about the 97% voter registration

      My suspicions were further aroused this morning when I received an e-mail warning me about the massive number of entries being deleted from the New Electoral Roll. I was advised to check if I was on the Roll and suggest to my friends that they should do the same. Is it possible that many of those entries which have been deleted were put on the Roll used on 18/9 fraudulently?

      Let us also not forget the absence of Exit Polls on the night which has never been explained.

    88. Craig P says:

      BigMac – there is a minimum. I’m not sure what it is but it is around 5-7% of the total list vote. Ruth Davidson for example got a list seat in Glasgow for the Tories with 12,749 votes which was 6.1% of the total list vote.

      Where you might be getting confused is the total amount of votes a candidate gets when they also stand in a constituency. Ruth Davidson also stood in first past the post Glasgow Kelvin but only got 1,845 votes.

    89. Daisy Walker says:

      Wow, just wow. Imagine working shoulder to shoulder with that lot of self serving back stabbers for team mates.

      I’m not from an area which votes labour, but I would be spitting feathers if I did and they put one of these bam pots in via the back door.

      The electorate didn’t break the swing-ometre for nothing. These former mps weren’t ‘just’ beaten, they were absolutely routed.

      What an absolute busted flush the Labour Party is, and The Scottish Branch is highlighting it all the way.

    90. Marie Clark says:

      Robert Peffers @ 12.36.

      Sorry aboot the popcorn gien ye wind Robert.

      Thanks for the advice aboot the zip fur the back o ma heid. These auld fingers dae indeed struggle wae buttons noo adays.

      Only yin problem noo though – wha’s gonnae fix the zip fur me.

    91. Christian Schmidt says:

      Sorry, but this blog entry is tosh. Losing constituency candidates have not been personally rejected, it is very obvious that even in AMS the constituency vote is predominantly given to the favourite party no matter who the candidate is (see also donkey with red rosette argument).

      Yes, there are many ways how the electoral system could be improved (e.g. open lists which allow/force voters to choose which candidate of a party’s list they prefer and makes constituencies unnecessary, or STV which is less proportional in terms of parties but makes it easier for independents and minimises lost votes). But to state that only list MSP are not elected on their own merit, or are in some way 2nd-class MSPs is at best a misunderstanding of how voters choose and at worst deliberate spin.

    92. nodrog says:

      If this is democracy at work it does not compute to proportional representation as far as I am concerned?

      Basically all the failed Northern Branch MPs can now become list MSPs even though the electorate rejected them. Then we will all have to listen to them voicing verbal diarrhea at Holyrood. Of course to rub salt in the wound we will be paying for it.

    93. frogesque says:

      @ Christian Schmidt 2.21

      So, what you seem to be implying is that if all the Scottish Ex Labour MPs had stood as Independents then they would have retained their seats.

      Seriously? Magrit Curran/ FFS! Bwahaaahaaa!!!

    94. Angra Mainyu says:

      Very interesting article. I wonder if Rev is hearing a thing or two on the grapevine.

      I have several close friends who are involved in the Labour Party in Scotland. None of them are happy. The “List” issue is a source of much discontent but there are other issues that will come to the fore soon, specifically in key policy areas.

      Dugdale is not doing anything to quell their fears either and in actual fact there seems to be a lot of resentment about her getting the top job in the first place — I have heard that she is arguing vehemently behind the scenes in regards to her aim to stay in the job after the expected rout. Think about how that must impact on morale…

      Heard one or two things about Tom Harris shit-stirring that will probably come to nothing but the impression I get is that Scottish Labour is in complete meltdown. The press know it too and they have more or less declared themselves the only real opposition to the SNP (acknowledging that Scottish Labour are more or less finished).

      Events are greater than the plans of man. I urge us all to stay united. Don’t rule anything out. Things could develop in the blink of an eye. Our role is to wait, watch, and be prepared to act.

    95. Bob Mack says:

      @Christian Schmidt,

      Tosh? Would you not prefer to have an elected official who believed in what his or her constituents preferred.?
      Labour are so disjointed that no one is sure who believes in what. You could have a representative who believes in nothing the people in his constituency want ,,depending of course if they believe in Labour,or perhaps Corbyn,or the Blairite faction, or Dugdale,or the membership of the Party.
      See the problem?

    96. Nana says:

      @Gus

      I too worry about postal voting. No trust in the unionists of any party.

      The wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014 for the referendum gives the figures.

      Recently I copied the following from a blog post [ don’t recall exactly where]

      Registered votes = 4,283,392 Actual no. of votes = 3,619,915 So why would 663,477 people who registered, not use their votes?

      The fact that there were no exit polls is particularly concerning.

    97. Luigi says:

      When the Holyrood dust settles, I wonder how many Labour ex-MSPs will be putting themselves forward for the council elections in 2017. Talk about working down the food chain. My heart bleeds. 🙂

    98. john king says:

      Luigi
      “Talk about working down the food chain. My heart bleeds.”

      Theres plenty o weeds in the cooncil floor beds need pullin.

    99. James Barr Gardner says:

      Daily Record having to advertise on STV, well I guess that means sales are not too good, no surprise there especially after it’s smears, lies and frauds on the People of Scotland, no wonder they do not want to buy it never mind read it.

      Adverts show some real people but do not be conned by this, the Daily Wrecker is just as anti-scottish independence anti-anything else Scottish, SNP bad for everything, running down the Scots nation, no change there, it has always been a red torrie mouthpiece controlled by it’s London masters.

      Keep up the pressure folks boycott this poor excuse for a newspaper, we will overcome, we will have a fairer country.

      I am looking forward to May 2016 voting SNP x 2. Then it’s on to 2017 to vote SNP. Voting for Scotland, Hope not fear!

    100. handclapping says:

      Man,we will be back to the glory days of “Scottish journalism” when all that was required was an expense account greater than the sobriety limit of your London Labour North British Accounting Unit confidante. Oh and the ability to make up a story about who you saw coming out of John Smith House with whom.

      Popcorn is fattening and its not the news but the popcorn gives you heart attacks.
      JaBa 6th on the WoS list!
      Thats West of Scotland ( for those of you still living) 🙂

    101. geeo says:

      “Losing constituency candidates have not been personally rejected”
      …….
      Interesting argument, so when the local constituency candidate comes to my house and states ‘hello, i am joe bloggs, your local labour MSP constituency candidate, how about voting for ME to represent YOU, in the Scottish Parliament” , if i vote for Jessie Bloggs (SNP candidate, no relation) i have not, according to Christian Schmidt, rejected BOTH the Candidate AND the party he represents ?

      Now THAT is “utter tosh”.

    102. galamcennalath says:

      Using Scotlandvotes.com predictor and Scot Goes Pop poll of polls the forecasted results are ….

      SNP 71
      Lab 26
      Con 16
      Greens 8
      Lib 8

      Prediction of such a complicated situation/system is difficult. So this may be a bit off the mark.

      However, the prediction is that all 26 Labour seats are regional list seats!

      There are 8 regions of 7 seats each. The figure in brackets is Lab % in 2011 to show where they are strong & weak.

      So, if Labour do get 26 list seats, where might they be located?

      The figures here are my finger in the air guesses!

      Central (35) 4
      Glasgow (35) 4
      Highlands (14) 2
      Lothian (25) 4
      Mid & Fife (25) 3
      NE (16) 2
      South (25) 3
      West (33) 4

      I will stick my neck out and suggest the numbers are so low, that I am probably accurate to +/- 1 sea at in each region.

      CONCLUSION – There is going to be one Hell of a scrammy for those top slots on the lists!

    103. mealer says:

      Could anyone tell me how many Labour branches there are in Dundee,how often they meet,where they meet and how many members turn up?

    104. Another Union Dividend says:

      I do wish that the BBC / MSM would stop stating that Ian Murray is opposed to nuclear weapons without adding the salient fact that he has NEVER voted against nuclear weapons in the House of Commons when given the opportunity.

      He has his chance on Tuesday but it seems that Labour MPs are going to abstain (quelle surprise) rather than vote for the SNP motion against nuclear weapons next Tuesday.

    105. Chic McGregor says:

      @Ephemeral deception.
      “Most of their plackards should have written:
      =============
      Je Suis Baisé
      =============”

      Or simply have contained ‘un’.

      I can say that cos I are one.

    106. Tony Little says:

      @galamcennalath

      New poll by STV online which predicts the following percentage votes transferred to MSPs via Scotland Votes calculator.

      Constituency vote:
      SNP: 66
      LAB: 0 (that IS Zero)
      CON: 5
      LD: 2

      Regional vote:
      SNP: 6
      LAB: 25
      CON: 12
      LD: 5
      GREEN: 8

      So to all those suggesting that SNP voters ‘gift’ their votes to other parties, my advice is – target the Unionist voters, NOT the SNP. The Corporate Media will continue with the lies, exaggerations, hyperbole and misinformation all the way to the polls. there is NO guarantee whatsoever that the SNP can/will win all the constituency seats, and those regional MSPs will be vital

    107. Luigi says:

      john king says:

      18 November, 2015 at 2:59 pm

      Theres plenty o weeds in the cooncil floor beds need pullin.

      Aye, and dog shit bins that need emptying – could we trust them to do that properly?

    108. Kevin Evans says:

      I really enjoyed someone’s “hunger games” analogy. Oh to be a fly on the wall at Scottish labours meetings of later.

      I watched a good documentary last night on YouTube. The name and subject isn’t important but the theme of the documentary was the media pumping fear into the world population since 9/11. Peoples gut feelings have been pushed and tested to the limit of the last 15 years. I think world wide people now question things more not just in Scotland.

      The famous psychological experiment done by in the 50’s by mylgrim (dunno if that’s spelt correctly) I think should be re-run as the results would be so different. I don’t think people accept a figure of authority barking commands at someone anymore. The scary part is though someone in a lab coat might not make poeple zap someone to death but in society today a celebrity might get the desired results though.

      I really do believe on a world wide scale people’s thinking has changed and people don’t accept what they see without some form of scepticism.

    109. Anagach says:

      Crisps, drink and comfy seat. Cheaper than the cinema and harder to spot the plot twists.

    110. galamcennalath says:

      Tony Little says:

      “So to all those suggesting that SNP voters ‘gift’ their votes to other parties, my advice is – target the Unionist voters, NOT the SNP”

      Absolutely.

      I notice your ‘run’ suggested 6 list seats to the SNP.

      I believe when I ‘ran’ the prediction is gave 8 list seats to the SNP. With Con and Lib taking a couple more constituency seats.

      The SNP need every list vote they can get. Lending to Rise, Green etc could let Unionists get more list seats. It is a risk not worth taking.

      SNP – SNP !

    111. Another Union Dividend says:

      Labour candidates for the Edinburgh constituencies were selected in January 2014 and Dugdale was selected for Edinburgh Eastern.

      However her campaign suffered an early set back when it was revealed that £10,000 has gone missing from the local Labour Constituency Party funds (but thanks to the SNP’s failings the Police haven’t reported anyone to the Procurator Fiscal’s office).

      https://archive.is/DrpJF

    112. mealer says:

      galamcennalath 3.04
      As you pointed out,it’s all very hard to predict especially this far out.Suffice it to say,on current polling,Labour will probably only get one list MSP elected per couple of constituencies.Far too many snouts for the trough space available.

      The SNP have a very similair,though entirely different (sounds bizarre I know) problem.Because they have such a large and enthusiastic membership their lists are stuffed full of contenders of a far higher calibre than Labours best,but most of whom have no chance of winning a list seat.

    113. liz says:

      @Tony Little – Agree SNP 1 +2.

      Hothershall is all over twitter with faux outrage saying SNP lied about the economic benefit of indy.

      Saying shame on you for lying, history will judge you etc etc.
      This is due to the report from ex SNP adviser

      We will get this until May, always amazes me that Lab transfer their behaviour onto SNP

    114. CameronB Brodie says:

      What a shambles. Still, that photo might be the first recorded example of a Kezia-face flash-mob.

      Re. Charlie Hebdo. A victim of religious intolerance or blowback from their own flavour of ‘extremism’?

      http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/what-if-icharlie-hebdo-i-had-been-published-in-britain/16443

    115. McBoxheid says:

      The Additional Member System is what has kept, for example, either the CDU (Tory)or the SPD(Labour)in power in Germany. People have a list vote and tend to use it for the same party as their direct mandate candidate. It’s like a safety blanket for average or weak candidates. Little wonder that people have lost interest in voting, they will never change the political status quo unless something constitutional forces a major rethink. The “my grandad vote SPD or CDU so I will” way of voting is common over here

      And so it was designed for Scotland, but no one expected the SNP to be so strong, or the unionists to be so weak, particularly when they are all just branch offices of Westminster parties which have no place being in a devolved parliament, IMHO.

      PR is an Establishment concept to uphold the status quo and to protect unionist parties in Scotland.

      FPTP and has seen massive changes in Scotland last year, thankfully, but with lists, the unionists are guaranteed seats, because eventually they will be higher up than the SNP. If there was FPTP, then they might possibly be no unionist MSPs left after May.

      If less than 6% is good enough for unionist parties to claim it was the clear will of the people of Scotland that we keep the Union, I forget the actual wording, then it should be good enough for them if the direct candidates win a lanslide on an Independence or ‘Reject the Scotland Bill’ mandate.

      As long as Westminster makes the rules, they cannot be trusted to accept the will of the Scottish people.

    116. Chic McGregor says:

      A related possible future issue would be the situation where Scotland gains independence and our MPs become defunct.

      However, when that scenario occurs I’m guessing that the number of MSPs (or whatever they would be called) would be increased to around 200, since that figure is more realistically what would be required by an independent Scotland.

      The other obvious difference is that many of our Westminster contingent have had the mantle thrust upon them by sense of duty rather than being of the career politician type and would therefore more than willingly vote themselves out of existence if it secured independence for our country.

    117. Sinky says:

      @ 3.33 liz says:

      Hothershall is all over twitter with faux outrage saying SNP lied about the economic benefit of indy.

      Usual unionist suspects all over this like a rash in “hootsman” letter pages

    118. ahundredthidiot says:

      @kevin Evans

      Spot on

      Question until happy

      It may still take a while, but people are starting to wake up, unfortunately that begins with questioning authority.

    119. Glamaig says:

      Kevin Evans

      It was Milgram and his experiment was repeated in the UK a few years ago. I think it was organised by the BBC.

      I cant remember the stats, whether people were less obedient than in the 50s, but plenty of people still obeyed.

      I remember 2 participants in particular. One was a sweet-looking wee girl, a university student who obediently gave the ‘fatal’ shock.

      The other one I remember was a Scottish guy who totally refused to cooperate and said he would never hurt anyone.

      From what I can remember of research on the subject there are about 10% of the population at one end of the bell-curve who tend to resist social pressures and who are not afraid to speak out, and at the other extreme are people who find they enjoy hurting other people and just need an excuse/permission. I think the proportions are fairly constant across cultures and time, but like I say I cant remember the exact results of this experiment. I’ll see if I can find it.

    120. Jim Lynch says:

      The current voting system for the Scottish Parliament was specifically designed to stop the SNP ever getting a majority; this was set up by Jack McConnell (Now a Lord) in cahoots with the Liberals.
      SNP candidates stood for Constituency and list, even their 6 Westminster MPs..
      In 2007, the final 2 seats which gave the SNP victory were in Highland Region. The initial count there did not show any SNP MSPs, but a challenge by the now SNP MSP Dave Thompson led to a recount
      The d’Hote system was broken in 2011 in the North East by Mark MacDonald.

      The law of unintended consequences?

      I am voting SNP twice.

    121. Tony Little says:

      @Chic

      I think there is a strong case to review the way that the Scottish Government is structured after Independence. Personally I would favor a FULL PR system for Holyrood and a second Revising only chamber, The number of 200 in total MSPs/Senators (or whatever) seems reasonable.

      I also think we need to review and beef up the Committee system to enable more quality review of legislation as it passes through the system. How to manage this compatible with a bicameral parliament I leave to others more knowledgeable than me.

    122. Glamaig says:

      I should add that I think that’s a different issue from believing the media – and you’re right, the days of the family huddled round the Wireless listening to the honeyed tones of the Home Service and believing it to be gospel truth are over.

    123. galamcennalath says:

      Just a quick reality check about the SNP’s position.

      2011 % figures, and new Ipsos-Mori telephone poll,

      SNP 45 50
      Labour 32 20
      Conservative 14 18
      Liberal Democrats 8 7

      SNP 44 46
      Labour 26 19
      Conservative 12 16
      Liberal Democrats 5 8
      Scottish Green 4 7

      This is just one poll, but perhaps

      i) the redistribution among Unionists may be greater than the increase in SNP voting intention, especially on regional list voting

      ii) the smaller shift in SNP list voting intention shows people are considering voting SNP-Green

    124. Glamaig says:

      on topic – as a new member of the SNP I was very impressed that I was given a vote for the list candidates. Even more impressed at the quality. I got stuck in a cycle of moving candidates up my list of preferences, which meant that the ones I had already voted for got moved down, etc.

      I wonder what the Labour list looks like in comparison.

    125. David McDowell says:

      Glamaig at 3:49pm

      Have they done any research into why its always the 10% who enjoy hurting people that end up running the country?

    126. Chic McGregor says:

      @Glamaig
      “I wonder what the Labour list looks like in comparison.”

      Well here is the Westminster SLAB ‘talent pool’ which was drained when the SNP pulled the plug.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-scotland-32587631

      Nae doot some o they will be in the stramash fur lis seats.

    127. Glamaig says:

      David McDowell
      I don’t know but when you look at the state of the world you might think it was run by people with psychopathic tendencies.

      heres a few traits:

      Superficial charm and good intelligence
      Untruthfulness and insincerity
      A lack of remorse or shame for their behaviour
      Poor judgement and failure to learn from previous experiences
      Pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love
      General poverty in any major affective reactions or emotions
      A general unresponsiveness to interpersonal relationships
      Sex life will be impersonal, trivial and poorly integrated
      Suicide is rarely carried out because of love of the self

    128. Valerie says:

      It’s a boorach! It’s dog eat dog, and vice versa!

      What an abject lesson in how to behave with zero dignity.

      Surely these attention whores could be the subject of aspiring psychology students to satisfy their needs?

      None of their behaviour is about serving the public.

    129. mealer says:

      Glamaig 3.59
      Dross.Thats what the Labour list will look like.I hear some Tory constituency parties are struggling to come up with enough credible candidates to fill their lists.Heaven only knows how the Libdems will get on.In some constituencies they only have a couple of activists,so how they’ll come up with enough names I don’t know.Theyll maybe just take names from their membership list at random and hope the folk “selected” don’t notice!

    130. galamcennalath says:

      Thought. If Labour spend the next umpteen months back stabbing and elbowing their way into the top list positions, that could result in further electoral damage.

      I suspect the Tories are the ones likely to benefit.

      Polls show improvements in The Tories’ position.

      I have hypothesised about this before …. What if the Tories become the official opposition in Scotland!?

      What will the Daily Records and BBC do then? Their ‘darlings’ in 3rd position.

      While I hate to see the Tories do well, there is a certain justice in them becoming the face of Unionism instead of Labour. Why have the monkey when you can get the organ grinder?

    131. FatCandy says:

      I actually LOLed at the “fight like rats in a sack” sentence. Very apt.

    132. McBoxheid says:

      Personally, I don’t think we need an upper chamber in Scotland. If we remain in the EU then we have quite enough politicians that we have to by out of the public purse.

      HoL and other upper chambers around the world are only there to serve the Establishment. If the people can’t even trust the politicians that we elect, why would we trust an upper chamber any more if we could elect them? They are further from the people than the lower chamber and it just duplicates things unnecessarily.

    133. K1 says:

      James Kay, as it happens SG published election dates this morning.

      2021 Scottish Elections. 2022 Council Elections. (To avoid clashing with the UK GE in 2020)

      http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Scottish-Elections-Dates-Bill-published-1f67.aspx

      In light of this in relation to your point, yes they (Labour) would be in a position: ‘…of going for Westminster while still sitting in Edinburgh.’

      In terms of potential SNP ‘decline’, I doubt that would be the case, as we will have hopefully dispensed with Labour council ‘strongholds’ in 2017. Further strengthening the SNP’s mandate in Scotland.

      Each ex MP will of course ‘make clear’ that they have nae intention of ‘jumping’ to the big parly.

      But as this article demonstrates, precisely in the case of Alex Rowley, you cannot take anything that a Labour party member says as remotely resembling truth?

      Will any ‘MSM’ journalist ask this question.

      Of course they will and they will be told a complete lie.

      To even consider trusting a word out of these people’s mouths would be beyond naive on the part of anyone serious about how our country is governed.

      The Labour party…is over.

    134. Petra says:

      O/T

      @ gus1940 says at 2:09 pm ………..
      ”it got me thinking once again on the subject of whether or not The Referendum was rigged ….. My suspicions have not been in the area of The Postal Vote but in the possible rigging of The Electoral Roll to facilitate fradulent voting via The Postal Vote ……
      My suspicions were further aroused this morning when I received an e-mail *warning me about the massive number of entries being deleted from the New Electoral Roll*. Is it possible that many of those entries which have been deleted were put on the Roll used on 18/9 fraudulently?”

      More than likely Gus plus the fact that God knows how many people rented a place in Scotland, short term (wee holiday or to vote from afar), prior to the Referendum to enable them to vote. Then they returned home again.

      I wonder if we can find out how many entries have been deleted? That would be interesting don’t you think?

      Another issue that should have been looked into is why all postal votes were sent to England for ‘scanning’. What was that all about?

      One thing for sure is that the criteria for voting at the next Referendum will have to be ‘TIGHTENED UP’ DRAMATICALLY.

      I’ve had my say, unpopular on here it would seem, as to who I think should be allowed to vote, so I wont go into that again, however at the very least should only be open to people who have lived in Scotland for 6 years or more. This alone would eliminate students, short-term migrant workers / those who don’t choose to settle here and ‘holiday makers’.

      People who have holiday homes in Scotland (rUK AND abroad) shouldn’t be allowed to vote at all, imo, but other than that should not be allowed to vote unless they can prove that they spend at least 6 months per year in that particular home. Prove by submitting energy bills covering at least a 12 month period. As an example, one of many, I met a couple who returned from Canada for a short holiday to vote … NO.

      Research findings show that postal voting is open to massive fraud and manipulation. It should only be used by those who are psychologically or physically unable to vote at their local polling station. Proof to that effect (inability / disability) should be enclosed with the postal ballot paper, if not made void.

      Postal votes should be sent directly to the returning officer at the local authority office, and be received by them: not via England. If they have to be ‘scanned’ that should be carried out in Scotland.

      Staff (higher) levels should permit opening of ALL postal votes on the night not ten days beforehand as happened in Renfrewshire (for one).

      People voting at polling stations should be asked to provide proof (photographic) of identity and 6 years of residency.

      I’m sure some on here can think of other ways to ‘tighten up’ the voting process, or disagree with me, and of course some ‘scammers’ will always find a way to beat the system no matter what.

      Stringent exit polls should be carried out at every station if for no other reason than to combat the following because I would put nothing past them …. as we know that an Independent Scotland IS a threat to the State (US and elsewhere):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1thcO_olHas

      SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE REFERENDUM (Wikipedia)

      ‘Voting Process

      Voting for the referendum commenced on 27 August 2014, with the receipt of ballots by postal voters. As of 15 August, 680,235 eligible voters had registered for postal voting, a 20% increase compared with March 2014.

      The registration deadline for referendum voters was 2 September 2014. Several councils reported the processing of “unprecedented” numbers of new registrations, while others received “tens of thousands” of applications in the final week.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014

    135. annie says:

      Chick McGregor – Thanks for the link, a reminder of all of Scotland’s Labour MPs now looking for a job. A few over the hill but definitely a good few more who will be fighting to get on the List. Can’t see the like of Douglas Alexander standing though and one or two not far off retirement age might think it’s more trouble than it’s worth and anyone who watched Scottish Questions wouldn’t touch Davidson with a bargepole.

    136. McBoxheid says:

      galamcennalath says:
      18 November, 2015 at 4:43 pm

      While I hate to see the Tories do well, there is a certain justice in them becoming the face of Unionism instead of Labour. Why have the monkey when you can get the organ grinder?

      Neither would I.
      In an independent Scotland, why would we want to emulate the same political system we are trying to escape?

      I would have thought that new parties would evolve to suit our people’s priorities and wishes. That includes the SNP long term. (It will be job done once Indy is achieved)
      We need new concepts that represent the wishes of the people.

      If we are only offered the same old, same old, then Scotland will be no better of by pursuing the same type of policies that caused the Union to fail, e.g. global profit and business above social aspects of life.

      Sure, we need to work with business and industry, but the whole focus can be one of social inclusion and care. They should work with society and not use society to make huge profits for the few.

    137. jcd says:

      Sorry o/t but felt should share this (it’s apparently a YouTube vid so have removed http://)

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-17/theres-no-such-thing-isis-journalist-destroys-wests-terror-narrative-warns-crackdown

      Scroll down through article and click on vid (10mins)

      Definitely worth it.

      From elsewhere online today –

      “The Western world consists of a tyranny in which brainwashed nonentities live in a constructed reality. Can enough of these people be rescued to make a difference? That is the question”

      Paul Craig Roberts

      This guy is an ex-insider, used to be high up in Reagan’s Treasury.

    138. Petra says:

      O/T

      @ Glamaig says at 4:25 pm ”David McDowell I don’t know but when you look at the state of the world you might think it was run by people with psychopathic tendencies.

      Heres a few traits:

      Superficial charm and good intelligence
      Untruthfulness and insincerity
      A lack of remorse or shame for their behaviour
      Poor judgement and failure to learn from previous experiences
      Pathological egocentricity and incapacity for love
      General poverty in any major affective reactions or emotions
      A general unresponsiveness to interpersonal relationships
      Sex life will be impersonal, trivial and poorly integrated
      Suicide is rarely carried out because of love of the self”

      And doesn’t that list just highlight some of the characters that we are having to deal with such as Cameron, Osborne and IDS to name but three of MANY?

      Known as Corporate Narcissists.

      http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201112/narcissism-why-its-so-rampant-in-politics

    139. Jimbo says:

      I think that if Kezia Dugdale allows Anas Sarwar to stand as an MSP, in the event that he manages to get in on the list vote, she will seriously regret it.

    140. N Walker says:

      Think the placards should be “Je Suis a bit of a Charlie”

    141. Kevin Evans says:

      This 10% of psychopaths – I remember reading during WW1 (the Great War) most soldiers British and German would shoot to miss as most didn’t want to kill anyone but there was a minority (10%) who were considered heroes as they would run into enemy trenches and go mental.

      Anyway – a milgrim experiment done by the BBC I would be sceptical of the results anything the BBC done. Just then telling us the results still hold in properganda to remind us “if you step out of line we’lol come get ya”

      I think my analogy holds true that is a guy in a lab coat done the experiment people would question it but if Jordan with her tits hanging out done the experiment as an “X factor” type family program the results would be the same. That’s how messed up we’ve become.

    142. bjsalba says:

      O/T I just tried 3 times to listen to PM. Interviewing Blairites undermining Corbyn. Its off now. Probably for good.

    143. john king says:

      Mealer asys
      “Theyll maybe just take names from their membership list at random and hope the folk “selected” don’t notice!”

      Wow
      that would be a hoot if one of them got elected,
      kinda like this,
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdyYe7sDlhA

    144. Chic McGregor says:

      @McBoxheid
      “Personally, I don’t think we need an upper chamber in Scotland.”

      Not an upper chamber as such but we do need sanity check scrutiny of legislation.

      My suggestion in 96 was that all legislation at draft, debate, amendment and final stages should be available for perusal and comment by a large committee of experts of various kinds.

      The experts would not need to be present in parliament, they would be able to read, comment and discuss the legislation in a secure, private and encrypted on line forum.

      The experts would be from all fields which have a potential interest or input into Scotland’s legislation.

      Health, Environment, Safety, Churches, Unions, Business community, Technologists, Researchers, Academics, Cultural community (music, drama, literature, historical heritage), Education, Legal profession, Judiciary, Police, Emergency Services, Defence, Agriculture, Fishing and aquaculture, Energy (electrical and non electrical) Tourism, Transport, Civil Service.

      Ideally they would be peer group nominated and elected for one term only and where possible three at least in each field across the political spectrum.

      There would be no salary just expenses for any necessary travel or research costs and the equipment required to participate in the review loop. Motivation should be purely on a basis of public service.

      There would be no lobbying allowed of these experts either monetary or in kind.

      Their input would be advisory, the elected representatives would still draft, amend and pass the legislation.

      However, the final bill would, as an appendix, have the final comments of all the experts who decided the legislation pertained to their field and merited comment. Those comments would become a permanent part of the legislation, always available for future perusal.

      The chamber of elected representatives would be required to read those comments as well as the legislation itself before voting on it.

      The comments would also be available for public perusal from the Parliament Library service, although, naturally, some matters of state security or commercial propriety may be redacted.

      In addition to the above procedure which should help generate joined up legislation and in line with a cohesive and sensible national strategy which should avoid unforeseen knock on effects, a big improvement over Westminster, IMV, all legislation should still be subject to formal temporal review as well.

      After a set period, say three years, in operation the legislation would need to be reexamined by Parliament to determine if it has achieved the goals intended. If it has only partially done so then an attempt to amend the legislation should be made (again with a review period) or if it has not at all achieved anything, it should be scrapped, reverting to the original legislation. This would go a long way to avoid bureaucratic accretion and time wasting attempts at progression along wrong solution paths.

      If an independent Scotland’s Government could get somewhere close to that kind of review system, it would be infinitely better than a second chamber even if that were not a retirement/care home for proven party sycophants such as pertains in Westminster.

    145. Brian Powell says:

      Jimbo

      I doubt if Kezia will have much say in it.

    146. galamcennalath says:

      Does anyone actually know how Labour will decide on who goes on which list, and who gets the top winning slots?

      I was most impressed by the democratic way the SNP carried out this exercise. Every member in the region got to pick list candidates in their own preferred order. Thus the final selection and order reflected the member’s opinions.

      I have a vision of Labour, maybe 40 years ago, where this type of decision would have been taken in the back room of a Miners’ Social. Doors locked. Party apparatchiks deciding among smoke, beer and sandwiches. Presumable even Labour are now more democratic!?

      Anyone know? Will members or party bosses decide?

    147. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Vive le slab concreted over their Britlab cadavers.

    148. Morgatron says:

      Apologies , but slightly off topic.I would love to see Big Jackie Baillie being used as a circus human cannon ball and fired from the Broomielaw over the Clyde to Tradeston. She would no doubt be mistaken for a large and rather plump trident missile.

    149. Chic McGregor says:

      @Tony Little

      See my last post re review system.

    150. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Interesting contribution, Chic.

      Very.

      Why not add in a randomly selected pool of citizens drawn from across all airts and pairts of the country as a Woman/man of the humble land counter-balance to these technocrats and specialist acacademics (suitably and evenly briefed, of course)?

    151. john king says:

      Morgatron says
      “She would no doubt be mistaken for a large and rather plump trident missile.”

      I was thinking something more like this
      http://tinyurl.com/nhz8jt7

    152. Tony Little says:

      @Chic

      Thanks. Interesting ideas. Worth considering in more detail.

    153. Thepnr says:

      @john king

      That looks more like a “fat man” than a fat woman. Did you have someone else in mind?

    154. Kevin Evans says:

      Don’t want to lower the tone but is that some a Jim murphys cum that’s spilt out of kezias mouth and landed on her trousers?

    155. Macart says:

      @Sinky and Liz

      I wouldn’t worry too much about Mr Hothersall. Near as I can tell he has the same passing relationship with reality as he does with fact.

      Firstly and for the moment we don’t know what direction the current Scottish government would have taken in the event of a yes vote last year, therefor just how you can say they lied about anything is sheer speculation.

      Secondly, the whole point of independence is that you can make decisions on your economy as best suits your needs and priorities. Any halfwit making predictions on the fortunes of an independent Scotland based on the current Westminster model of tax and spend has more chance of determining the winning numbers of next weeks lottery.

      Lastly, lets talk about lies and who history will judge. The workers at HMRC offices throughout Scotland and TATA’s steel works may have a thing or two to say about job safety in Better Together land. The folks about to lose their tax credits perhaps? How about those who run and are forced to live off foodbanks? In fact anyone who was ensured that the broad shoulders of better togetherness would protect them from economic risk and hardship.

      ‘Course that isn’t even touching on BTs other whoppers starting with the vow, ‘nothing off the table where devolution was concerned’ and how essential Scottish representation at Westminster was considered. Day 1 after the referendum EVEL first rears its ugly head. The incessant campaign of racist denigration targeted at Scotland and the SNP throughout the entirety of the GE campaign and beyond. The sidelining of our representation in parliament and the offhand binning of every single amendment, including FFA, put forward by our MPs.

      Then of course there was the tenor of BTs infamous project fear campaign. In all my years I’ve never seen or experienced a more negative, divisive and demeaning campaign in UK electoral history and those pricks chose to not only ally themselves with a Conservative government, but wholeheartedly set about demonising half of their own electorate.

      We haven’t even started on the party of abstention yet, but when it comes to who requires judging, Labour of all parties truly wants to keep a low profile.

      Never mind waiting on history to judge anyone. May this year and May next WE WILL JUDGE Labour’s actions directly.

    156. Thepnr says:

      Here’s a much prettier version of “fat man” than john offers.

      https://archive.is/fLiPK

    157. Gerry says:

      @GUS1941 – 209

      Your comments echo my thoughts EXACTLY. I didn’t realise until the week of the vote that there would be no exit poll. A telling moment was, I think, the BBC proclaiming that this was because there was no funding set aside for it. Weird.
      I could well imagine the likes of Cameron arguing behind closed doors that continued access to Faslane was a matter of national security in order to justify doing whatever was required to retain it.
      Kudos to you for being one of the more open minded on this issue who realises that to entertain the possibility of foul play in the referendum serves not only as a retrospective exercise, but one that hopefully ensures that any potential gaps in the electoral process that could be exploited for nefarious purposes in any future referendum, will be closed.

    158. john king says:

      Kevin Evans
      Dude!
      not cool man.

    159. Petra says:

      O/T

      I see that the Provost of Argyll and Bute’s, Len Scoullar, comments about the Syrian refugees arrival in Bute is plastered across the front page of the Sun:

      ”I Hope there’s Not A Terrorist Among This lot”.

      ”He voiced fears a “terrorist” could be among refugees being sent to live on their isle. He had “reservations” someone with fanatical “tendencies” might end up on Bute in the wake of the Paris atrocities … ”my feeling is I just hope there is no one among them that have these tendencies at all. Obviously that would be absolutely catastrophic. And it’s a fear that everyone will have I’m sure, if we brought in a terrorist among these people. You read about people being shot and people setting off explosives and what have you at football matches. Obviously people are frightened that that could happen among these folk who are coming. And it’s always been a reservation I’ve had but we just hope these are genuine people and we can do the genuine thing for them.”

      He also said that there ”had been limited community consultation before the council agreed to accept the families.”

      Former soldier Mark Lingard, 44, who served with the 5th Royal Enniskillen Dragoon Guards, claimed the lack of communication had bred mistrust among locals. He said: “We have a chance for ethnic diversity to work but we have to talk and listen. We’ve been told about halal food in supermarkets and prayer sessions in schools. Have the refugees asked for this? Or is this just people scared not to offer it because if they didn’t, they’d be branded a bigot? Someone even asked if we should put the Christmas decorations up in the church hall because it will be used for Friday prayers.”

      Well as expected Scoullar (who should be sacked, imo) has been castigated from all sides and it’s been pointed out once again that these people have come from Camps whereby they’ve undergone numerous security checks over time and have also been checked out more recently by the Home Office.

      However not a great start, eh, especially if there has been lack of discussion / communication with the locals. I also think that to send 30 families with 50 children to Rothesay is absolutely crazy (if the figures are correct). I’m saying this in support of the refugees … wanting them to get a very warm welcome and the optimum fresh start. Additionally if they are not happy in Bute they can ask to get relocated.

      Anyway if any refugees, from whatever Country, read the posts on Wings just ignore the Scoullars of this World:

      WELCOME TO SCOTLAND

    160. Thepnr says:

      @Macart

      “Lastly, lets talk about lies and who history will judge. The workers at HMRC offices throughout Scotland and TATA’s steel works may have a thing or two to say about job safety in Better Together land.”

      Done it again Macart, put into a single sentence that we should all memorise.

      Remember too that the workers in HMRC in East Kilbride came out in favour of a Yes vote.

      “Branches across the country had voted on their position – and the gap was closing between Yes and a neutral stance, with a number of branches – including HMRC East Kilbride, DWP Glasgow, MoJ Scotland and Driving Instructors – backing Yes. A number of branches voted for PCS not to take a position but to provide information to members.”

      https://archive.is/rcOuh

      Our day is coming. The liars will be judged next May.

    161. ahundredthidiot says:

      Kevin Evans

      Ditto

      Let’s not get too low, good point earlier, last post not cool

      Tone man, c’mon!

    162. K1 says:

      Give it a rest Kevin, talk about lowering the tone. Absolutely no need for that.

    163. Onwards says:

      @galamcennalath says:

      “While I hate to see the Tories do well, there is a certain justice in them becoming the face of Unionism instead of Labour. Why have the monkey when you can get the organ grinder?”

      Now that income tax devolution is on the way, I suspect the Tories might get a bump in the polls if they campaign on a simple manifesto of ‘no higher taxes’

      The amount of people who SAY they don’t mind paying slightly more tax is always higher than the reality.

      One good side effect is that this could help to split the unionist vote. Tories are less likely to vote for Labour as a tactical vote against the SNP.

    164. Gary45% says:

      Technically Dipity has brought in new faces.
      Because Slab are just a bunch of lying two faced bast*ds.
      So they have the perfect excuse, ” that was my other face”

      O/T
      Thought for the day on Radio Misery Scotch-shire this morning, The bigot managed to get the French massacre and the suckling pig cartoon in one sentence.
      Thought about complaining to the bigoted twats, but what is the point, soon when we complain about anti-SNP bias we will be accused of anti-Semitism.
      It’s time to ramp it up a notch.

    165. K1 says:

      It’ll be the well off Labour voters who now turn to voting Tory.

      Not because they ‘support’ Tories but because they don’t support SNP.

      And they can see the Labour wipe out up ahead just as clearly as we can. What else are they gonnae dae?

      Morningside is the new Red Clyde.

      Who Knew!

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Jack Murphy says: 18 November, 2015 at 2:08 pm:

      “Anas Sarwar is fair excited on his Twitter today:-

      “Labour remains the best vehicle for change in our country. So I’ve finally made a decision…. I’m in! “

      Did he happen to mention just what it was he was in, Jack?

    167. ahundredthidiot says:

      Onwards

      As much as I hate to admit it, you’re right.

      I am fine with higher taxes, but a common theme amongst higher earners (and I have experience of this) is that they are extremely selfish.

      Tax away. Above 50k how much money do you really need? I see my pensioner parents and my single parent sister alright. I would far sooner see a (fair and responsible) government do that so that there is a fair distribution of wealth.

      Not everyone has a high earner in their family.

      All Jock Tamsons bairns.

    168. McBoxheid says:

      Chic McGregor says:
      18 November, 2015 at 5:49 pm

      @McBoxheid
      “Personally, I don’t think we need an upper chamber in Scotland.”

      Not an upper chamber as such but we do need sanity check scrutiny of legislation.

      Tony Little says:
      18 November, 2015 at 6:44 pm

      @Chic

      Thanks. Interesting ideas. Worth considering in more detail.

      I second that, often the social reforms that are foisted on us are made by millionaires lobbied by global business interests. Your suggestions would indeed bring people from more suitable backgrounds together and with a more transparent oversight.

      An iScotland as a people’s Scotland wouldn’t need lots os secret quangos as there should be no attempts at empire building and world dominance or totalitarianism allowed.

      I would also leave the churches out and make it purely secular.
      The church system is just as hierachical feudal and outdated as the current UK system, which we are trying to leave and follow their own agenda which often goes against what society as a whole thinks, particulary in a multicultural society that embraces emigration and equal opportunity. Religion should be personal choice and not part of the state apparatus IMHO.

    169. mealer says:

      ahundredthidiot 7.36
      £50K? Loose change for Messers Blair,Brown,Darling etc.

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      There’s very few of the ex-MPs worth saving, perhaps Mark Lazarowicz, can’t really think of any others. And they got booted out by the electorate already, so putting them into Holyrood, their second choice as what they clearly regard as an inferior pretendy Parliament would be madness.

      Sarwar is a possible exception, it seemed to me he was quite credible as deputy leader, but I think he’s blown it with his extravaganza in hard times of austerity and tax redit cuts, with his 500 head luxury banquet. Sheer madness. It might buy him into the list, but won’t buy him into the electorate, and perhaps that alone is worth minus 5% on the List – all over Scotland.

      Labour’s should have no more than 2 or 3 ex-MPs on the list to make them credible, the question is, can they resist the pressure? What autonomy does Dugdale really have?

    171. Capella says:

      A week is along time in politics and the next 6 months are going to feel like an eternity. The thought of all those Labour drones creeping back into Holyrood through the list votes is putting me off my tea.

      Even worse, is the thought of a sled load of Tory drones doing the same. It looks like some ex Labour voters are now intending to vote Tory to keep the SNP out. So says the latest polls on Scot Goes Pop.

      The SNP is the only party with integrity now. As Cameron and his media allies drum up support for war, and Labour MPs threaten to support them, who will speak out for the rule of law? Only the SNP it seems.

      http://on.rt.com/6wxl

      “Cameron said he needed “to convince more people” to back the intervention. Speaking to the BBC, he argued that IS “don’t recognize a border between Iraq and Syria, and neither should we.”

    172. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      gus1940 at 2.09

      A very perceptive post. I’m sure the irregular remarks about the strength of the NO postal votes by Ruth Davidson and John McTernan were also used to prepare acceptance of a ludicrously high postal vote,especially in areas in which the YES team felt we should have been strongest.
      To repeat a 95% plus take up on postal votes which happened in five areas (with an above 90% take up in most others) is theoretically just about possible but virtually unachievable.

    173. Petra says:

      @ Onwards says at 7:25 pm

      ”@galamcennalath says .. While I hate to see the Tories do well, there is a certain justice in them becoming the face of Unionism instead of Labour. Why have the monkey when you can get the organ grinder?”

      ”@ Onwards says .. Now that income tax devolution is on the way, I suspect the Tories might get a bump in the polls if they campaign on a simple manifesto of ‘no higher taxes’. The amount of people who SAY they don’t mind paying slightly more tax is always higher than the reality. One good side effect is that this could help to split the unionist vote. Tories are less likely to vote for Labour as a tactical vote against the SNP.”

      Spot on Onwards. Additionally we are more likely to get Organ Grinder Davidson (eh! ….. not trying to lower the tone here), unlike Monkey Dugdale, to outline in detail how they would raise / spend money and that would be interesting, for example what benefit cuts would they decide to cover, what services etc would they decide to cut?

      Then again I might be wrong because they, like their SLab pals, can say what they like in the sure and certain knowledge that they’re never going to be ruling the roost in Scotland.

    174. ahundredthidiot says:

      Maeler

      Loose change indeed, but there lies the difference.

      America flourished in the 50’s due to 90% tax.

      My suggestion is, rule of tens, 50k = 50% tax, 60 = 60% tax and so on to a ceiling of 90%. Anyone not happy can leave. That way we get the right people in positions and a fair distribution of tax…..and the strong protect the week. Because at some point, we are all both.

    175. robert graham says:

      who cares they are all f/n spinless , lying ,cowards , oh forgot useless as well, the Scottish Government should use its powers to close this loophole pronto , only those who are voted for deserve a seat in our parliament ,this lot don’t deserve a seat in the public gallery

    176. Robert Peffers says:

      @liz says: 18 November, 2015 at 3:33 pm:

      “Hothershall is all over twitter with faux outrage saying SNP lied about the economic benefit of indy.

      Saying shame on you for lying, history will judge you etc etc.
      This is due to the report from ex SNP adviser

      We will get this until May, always amazes me that Lab transfer their behaviour onto SNP

      As I pointed out when the ex-SNP Advisor first made his claim, it was based upon the usual flawed logic of the Establishment’s propaganda. His actual wording showed this calculated black-hole was calculated upon an independent Scottish Government following exactly the same economy as the present UK parliament.

      Ignoring the simple fact that the whole idea of Scottish Independence was to NOT follow the Westminster model. I’ll rattle off a few things that won’t be going down to Westminster on Scottish independence.

      Scotland doesn’t get a single penny of the oil & gas revenues. That 8.4% per capita figure is just for working out fake statistics. Every penny of oil & gas revenue is classed as coming from Extra-Regio-territory and goes directly to the UK. As does vehicle licence fees. Road Tax, Alcohol duty, Road Fuel Duty, Betting Tax, VAT. Aggregates Levy, Scottish Crown Estates profits, Higher Grid Connection Charges, all fines from the Scottish courts including on-the-spot fines and a lot more not mentioned.

      All that without even thinking of Trident and the English infrastructure we pay for but get nothing back from.

      There is no black-hole for Scotland has subsidised England since 1706/7.

    177. This will be a massive test of Kezia`s control over the labour party in Scotland,

      will she meekly let any of the rejected labour Westminster bully boys and girls grab a position on the list,

      or will she show these labour troughers that their day is past and boot them out to the long grass.

      What`s it gonna be Kezia,take labour forward or drag it even further down with the rejected Westminster troughers?

    178. Kevin Evans says:

      Yea yous are right – I took that too far. Apologies.

      It wasn’t the actual act I was referring too – it was more meant to be a humous symbolism about labour policy. Maybe too abstract for some.

    179. Thepnr says:

      We wiz robbed!

      Despite all the evidence to the contrary including the latest Wings poll, 49% Yes 51% No. We wiz robbed on 18th Sep 2014.

      We lost because enough voters weren’t convinced, don’t get over it. But stop crying in your milk and accept that there is PLENTY more work to be done before Independence is ours.

      Maybe we can’t trust the pollsters either? Fair point, then why don’t we do our own starting with an exit poll in May 2016. I’d man my local polling station and get a few opinions.

      Get enough volunteers and do it correctly, would be interesting at least and positive. Concrete evidence is what I’d like to see, you too, No?

    180. Raymond Jacobs says:

      Will Dugdale stand for both constituency and list seats?

    181. Foonurt says:

      Furrits in ah poke.

    182. Petra says:

      Thought I would cheer you all up with this. I was ‘stuck’ in a situation today with three young guys; late teens / early twenties. None of them working (not so cheerful). They were pretty (very) smelly, as rough as you can get, cursing and swearing constantly, dirty jokes and … ”a wis like that, man” verbalised every 10 seconds or so.

      Anyway I was in this house visiting a vulnerable person and one of the guys offered to make me a cup of coffee, very nice of him, and I said ok … thinking I’m taking a chance here!

      During my stay, over the cup of coffee, one of them mentioned voting yes in the Referendum so my ears perked up: Transpired that they had all voted yes. So we got into a conversation about it … the swearing / ”a wis like that man” lessened to a great extent and they went on to regale me with one fact after another as to how we had been conned and robbed for centuries. Knew a great deal in fact and were actually predicting what Westminster would do next.

      I asked if they visited sites like Wings …. had never heard of it! I asked if they bought the National …. had never heard of it! So I said that they really seemed to be on the ball with what was going on in Scotland v Westminster and asked them how they knew so much. Answer ”here and there, doon the pub.” Then one said to another ‘an yir granpa, man. He’s brilliant. Knows about everything”.

    183. mealer says:

      After independence I’m hoping we can look at lots of different options and systems for raising revenue.We won’t have to restrict ourselves to tinkering about with the system Westminster uses.

    184. Tam Jardine says:

      The situation with labour in Scotland reminds me of Alasdair Gray’s Lanark and the city of Unthank- the population shrinking whilst appearing to be overcrowded.

      We will see much of the debris from May and the current crop of slab MSPs funnelled into a decreasing number of seats.

      Those left out, sidelined, displaced down the list may then form a wafer thin red line stumbling, dazed and confused towards the SNP trenches in the council elections in 2017.

    185. Nana says:

      O/T Good wee video

      How a nation was conned…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C88EthgFr8&feature=youtu.be

    186. caz-m says:

      Brilliant comments from one and all.

      Scottish Labour just can’t compete with sites like Wings.

      The minute they stick their head above the parapet, they get shot down in flames.

      Oh what Scottish Labour would give to have someone like Rev Stu on their side.

    187. ahundredthidiot says:

      Petra

      People are getting there, despite their/our trash talk, but you’re right, wings serves as a magnet, well done you. Lesson to us all, people are awake, let’s bring us all together.

      Tap in to the undercurrent, each and all, secret to success!

    188. Rock says:

      “and whatever you think of the Tories it’s hard to dispute that she’s one of their more able operators. (Faint praise though that may be.)”

      Ruth Davidson is the most disgusting and nastiest politician in Scotland in my view.

    189. Gary45% says:

      Cheers Petra@8.45.
      That’s what we are hoping for, the younger generation getting interested in what’s actually happening in the country.
      When Independence comes this generation will, gather self esteem and respect with gaining employment under an Independent Scotland.
      Each and every one of us could easily have taken the path these lads have followed.
      Westminster will starve a generation so it can buy more toy aeroplanes, and bomb the sh*t out of innocent people.
      It must be very hard for the younger generation at the moment.
      I know it won’t be the instant Garden of Eden, but our country has a different vision of a future than the unionist troughers.
      Onwards and Upwards.

    190. mealer says:

      Petra 8.45,
      Thanks for that.Its very encouraging,but hundreds of thousands of Scots didn’t bother voting.A huge number of them would be in the same sort of demographic as the guys you were chatting to.Thats an area where we all have to do a lot more next time round.We should be starting now.Identify a non voter.Get that vote in May.

    191. mealer says:

      Rock 9.06
      Aye,but only cos so many throughers are now ex politicians.

    192. Thepnr says:

      @Petra

      Most heartening and a great wee story. All is not yet lost, thanks for posting that.

    193. Lenny Hartley says:

      Some depressing and shocking images on RT of elderly Muslin couple being attacked by a mob in Fife.

      Also new poll says 49% of U.Kers say no to more or any immigration from Syria..

      Guess it shows the power of the msm on those who appear to have caught the waterborne stupidity virus.

    194. Capella says:

      O/T I saw a vine on twitter which I can’t now find. But it showed the heartbreaking anguish of a young by who has just realised that his sisters have been killed. It may be in Palestine. But how can our government propose to renew indiscriminate bombing?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEfM3gBqwrc

    195. Clootie says:

      I don’t think there is enough popcorn in the World to get us through the next few months.

      The fight for the 1 & 2 positions in each of the eight regional list areas are going to be a remarkable display of backstabbing skills.

      Will Anas go for Highlands and Islands or South Scotland?
      Who will be on the Glasgow list – Kezia and Alex?

    196. Thepnr says:

      @Nana

      Great video Nana, it brought a tear to my eye. So good I’m about to watch it again.

    197. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lenny Hartley.

      I first saw that video on The Courier’s web site, a couple of days ago. I think it spread from there.

      http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/fife/isis-shouts-during-gang-attack-on-asian-shopkeeper-in-fife-1.910663

    198. De Valera says:

      Fighting like rats in a sack, courtesy of a bunch of rats who were given the sack.
      They deserve all they get.

      A place for Braden Davey perhaps?

    199. Still Positive. says:

      Petra @ 8.45

      Thanks for posting. Good to know people are still talking to each other “in the flesh” as well as online.

      I found teenage boys in Glasgow really looked up to their grandas and seemed to talk to them a lot – think a lot went fishing with them. Even when their dads were around, they were working so grandas filled the gap.

      These older guys know such a lot gathered over decades in the workplace and beyond.

      I remember asking a question on the readiness of Scotland’s ports for exports/imports to a group of guys in our Yes shop.

      The ensuing conversation lasted well over 30 minutes and broadened out to ship-building on the Clyde among other things.

      A lot of very knowledgeable people in Scotland who are a real asset to our country.

    200. alistair says:

      Did anyone see Ken Livingstone and Shadow Labour defence guy on CHannel 4 news at 7pm tonight slagging each other ? Toe curling car crash stuff which makes them look like complete amateurs
      http://www.channel4.com/news/catch-up
      (see Ken Livingstone apologises…)

    201. Nana says:

      @Thepnr

      I admit my vision was a bit blurry watching that!
      I love seeing all the happy smiling yessers.

      Did you spot anyone around 3.15?

    202. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Still Positive.

      You typed,
      “I found teenage boys in Glasgow really looked up to their grandas and seemed to talk to them a lot – think a lot went fishing with them. Even when their dads were around, they were working so grandas filled the gap.”

      I think that scenario has been going on for decades – not just in Glasgow. The thing is, I believe peeps tend to believe what they’re told in a ‘face-to-face’ situation, rather than what they’re fed from the corpmedia or TV.

      The way forward…

    203. Macart says:

      @Petra 8.45pm

      It’s all about their future Petra.

      Fair put a smile on ma face. 🙂

    204. Jim McIntosh says:

      Oh dear!

      During the election campaign we are going to have approximately 9 constituency candidates in each region knocking doors, pressing flesh and kissing babies so that between 2-4 list MPs (probably not them) will get elected to Hollyrood.

      If you’re in the current Shadow Cabinet you’re probably hoping to get one of the first 2 places on the list. If you’re considered a ‘big hitter’ from WM you’ll also be given a 1st or 2nd list place by the party (in London).

      Even if only 2 ‘big hitters’ are selected that means the highest position on the list for the other 61 constituency MPs will be 3rd place.

      How enthusiastic are they going to be? Instead of pressing flesh and kissing babies, maybe it’ll be closer to ripping flesh and kicking babies. 🙂

    205. galamcennalath says:

      Myself @ 6:16

      We’ve joked about how SLab are going to have to do a ‘Hunger Games’, but does anyone actually know how the list decisions are going to be made?

    206. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi nana.

      You typed,
      “Did you spot anyone around 3.15?”

      I would suggest Castlehills Chavie…

    207. K1 says:

      Thanks for that Nan, bit misty eyed maself after watching.

      Good stuff Petra, we should never judge a book by its cover, that much we’ve all learned 😉

    208. Th says:

      @Nana

      “Did you spot anyone around 3.15?”

      No, not until you told me to look. Hahahaha well spotted 🙂

    209. liz says:

      @Petra -that was really good to hear.

      This is what Mhairi Black was talking about the first time I heard her speak at HoF.

      When you’ve got nothing, you’ve got nothing to lose.

      An indy Scotland could be so much fairer for the population and we know it will not be perfect.

      Spent too long tonight arguing with a guy on twitter who was ‘convinced’ by A Bell, the unionists are clinging to this like drowning rats.

      Posted loads of detailed info on the consultation process leading to the WP – not interested.

    210. Petra says:

      @ Nana at 9:01pm

      Oh Nana thanks so much for that video. Fantastic … and I just love to see so many young children being involved. Like Thepnr it brought tears to my eyes. Tears of profound love and pride for this country and its people.

      Isn’t it great to know too that we have so many knowledgeable and talented people who can produce videos like this. More and more of them it would seem. Hopefully it will be doing its ’rounds’.

    211. caz-m says:

      Alistair

      London Labour are tearing themselves apart over Defence. They had a meeting in one of the committee rooms at Westminster the other night and it nearly came to fisty cuffs.

      Corbyn is going down the SNP route and the Blairites are want to follow Cameron into Syria.

      The Labour Party is collapsing, on both sides of the border.

    212. Capella says:

      I really think the bottom line is “Scotland”.
      Do you think Scotland exists?
      Answer the question.
      If it doesn’t exist, let’s erase it from the maps of countries of the world.

      If it does exist, should countries rule themselves?

    213. Fireproofjim says:

      I don’t know where you got the idea that the USA ever had 90% income tax.
      Your idea of taxing at the level of 90% for high earners is just economic illiteracy.
      For a start all the doctors, all the entrepreneurs, all the researchers, and anybody with any marketable skill would be on the first train south. Scotland would loose a fortune in income and would be seen as a desert for any ambitious youngsters.
      Yet you say anybody not happy can leave as far as you are concerned.
      I’m glad the Scottish government will ignore such nonsense.

    214. Rock says:

      mealer,

      “Rock 9.06
      Aye,but only cos so many throughers are now ex politicians.”

      She could beat any one of them.

      Totally dishonest. What would you expect from someone trained by Pravda GB?

    215. Fireproofjim says:

      My comment at 10.33 was in reply to ahundredthidiot idiot at 8.12

    216. louis.b.argyll says:

      Indeed..

      Freedom of thought, use it?
      .. or lose it.

      “..now ACTUALLY THINK very carefully” this time.

      Y’old no voters you.

    217. Sinky says:

      Labour supporter Cuisack accuses Iain Macwhirter of supporting SNP on BBC Scotland 2015 at end of discussion over Labour’s nuclear disarray

    218. Cadogan Enright says:

      Well everyone pass on any SLAB infighting news to the Rev so he can keep us entertained?

      What fun! What craic !

    219. Still Positive. says:

      Thanks nana @ 9.01 for that video.

      Wiping away the tears. We will do it and soon I hope.

      My MSP is convinced it will be in the next Scottish Parliament’s time – I do so hope he is right.

    220. Ken500 says:

      Pantomine season right enough. From horse’s head to the hind legs of a donkey and hooves. A good kick up the back end. Or dead pigs for some pokes.

      A few crowd funded prosecutions could see some with a place in jail or an ankle tag. All that security and surveillance powers might come in handy after all. In the interest of protecting the populous and all that.

      Can’t wait to see the ‘opposition’ emerge. The poison chalice. Bloody Red. Those who can do. Those who can’t join Unionists Parties. Will the ex Maths teachers who can’t count or understand elementary Maths calculate or by pass the selection process. Prime or odd numbers. Who will survive? for the slaughter. The sacrificial lambs. Too poor, too weak, too stupid. The Labour hard shooters.

    221. Gary45% says:

      Capella@9.26.
      The main reason the unionists ignore the indiscriminate bombing of Palestine is, they are in bed with America, which in turn is run and controlled by Israel.

      I went to a talk by a UK citizen last week, regarding the olive harvests in Palestine.

      The Israelis limit access to them from tending their olive trees, so when the trees die off, they say “you are not farming this land” and then take it for settlements.
      What he told us regarding the treatment of the Palestinians, made me embarrassed to be a human being.
      I try and do my bit in highlighting their plight, and each passing day try and get the message out.
      The Palestinians are a very proud nation who get NO RESPECT from the governing leaders of the west.
      As I said on a previous post, say the slightest thing against Israel, and you are classed as anti Semitic.
      Which is PATHETIC

      “Proud to be Scottish and a friend of Palestine”

    222. Auldgrannie says:

      What happened to Dugdale’s highly publicised “Fresh Talent” initiative? The one where she was going to fill the party with new, exciting MSPs?

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-leadership-frontrunner-kezia-5751708

      (Warning. Link takes you direct to the Daily Record)

    223. stephen says:

      Just watched Scotland Tonight,with McTernan and Bob Thomson (ex Labour ) comedy gold !!!!!!!!What a shambles the Labour party are ,feel sorry for them—-NOT

    224. Ian Mackay says:

      There is a way out for those Labour MSPs / ex-MPs that fail in seeking out that dwindling number of Labour list seats…

      They simply switch party before the Holyrood election and get on their new party’s list.

      I daresay a few Tory MSPs won’t be contesting their list seats in the coming election through retiral etc.; and Tory activists are rather thin on the ground in Scotland.

      There is little difference between the Labour Party and the Conservative Party nowadays; Red Tories or Blue Tories – they’re still Tories! (Even with Corbyn in charge of the Red Tories! In fact, a careerist Labour ex-MP might even use Corbyn as an excuse to switch to the Conservatives!)

      Job done. F**k the electorate, the trough is more important.

    225. call me dave says:

      John McTernan trashing Corbyn on radio 5.

      He left no stone unturned and threw them all at the hapless wearer of the Breton cap.

      What a friend he is to his fellow socialists. 🙂

    226. Petra says:

      Horrible wee McTernan was on Scotland Tonight running Corbyn down, pushing for bombing in Syria and getting his bit in about Corbyn siding with the SNP on Trident against Labour policy … no mention of it being SLab policy now …… Scotland doesn’t count of course.

      Bob (something or other) got RIGHT into his ribs, constantly, with comments about Blair (McTernans master) creating the Syrian situation, whose been financing Daesh, McTernan behind the failed Murphy, bombing hasn’t worked and basically who would want to listen to him anyway (McTernan).

      Colin MacKay was also on saying that with the way things are going for Labour north and south of the border ”there will be blood on the walls next year”.

    227. Lewis says:

      @fireproofjim Perhaps they’re familiar with history?

      http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/15/bernie-s/income-tax-rates-were-90-percent-under-eisenhower-/

      In fact the rate was above 90%.

    228. Ken500 says:

      US has 10% Federal tax for Defence costs and Federal administration. People for education, healthcare, private pension contributions etc. Education Institututions campaign for charitable funds to provide scholarships facilities for able students. State tax pays for police, fire, ambulance. Retailers pay less tax, goods are cheaper because workers get less employment benefits.

      More drugs are licensed for general sale. People can buy them on open sale 24 hours a day. Many people overdose. Some States supply Medicare for people who can’t afford to pay for health insurance or are retired on limited resources. The liberal Gun Laws mean 26K people kill each other every year and 6K kill each other by other methods. Many Americans arm themselves because they do not trust the Federal Gov.

      Each State averaged out is equivalent of 6Million people. Large open places in some areas.
      The US Federal organisation, is a bit like the EU administration. The States coming together to decide and organise polices. A higher Fed level of administration devolved down to State level.

      An elected President and elected Congress members. (Four year term?) A second chamber of 2 elected members from each State (for two years) the House of Representatives. Within the Presidential 4 year term, the balance in the House of Representatives can change because of State Elections. A resulting change in President’s majority making it more difficult to get legislation through into statue. Resulting in a lot of horse trading or a lame duck Presidency.

      The two chambers were intended to to provide checks and balance between the Federal (executive) and State power, the Legislature and Justice system. If the Presidential support changes mid term it can lead to difficulties with the Administration which are not resolved until the next election. President’s can serve for two terms only, then they have to step down. The US has a large division between the very rich and the very poor. Food portions can be massive. There are more obese people in the world than undernourished. There are targets to achieve eradication of abject world poverty within 15 years.

      There are strict border controls in the US and people can only work legally if they have a Green card for essential workers. Migants are only allowed to settle under agreed criteria. Foreigners who have holiday homes can only stay for 4 months of the year. When the credit crash happened many retired pensioners had to go back to work because their pension provision collapsed.

    229. Capella says:

      @ Gary 45%
      Totally agree. The Palestinians are routinely bombarded by Israel with the U N rendered impotent thanks to US and UK vested interest. I recommend “Palestinian Walks ” which is a very sad recount of how the author’s childhood landscape is colonised.

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestinian-Walks-Notes-Vanishing-Landscape/dp/1861978995

    230. Ken500 says:

      ‘Labour are proposing to give council care worker an increase to £7.85? an hour’.They get £9+ an hour. Labour politicians don’t know the salaries?

    231. Ken500 says:

      It must be the very, very rich. A relative few paying higher taxes at 90%? Relatives in the US, with professional jobs, relative high average salaries pay 10% flat rate Federal tax but also average State tax. Inheritance tax? US has 5% unemployment.

      UK Government tax and Council tax. VAT

    232. stephen says:

      Petra at 11.34
      Bob Thomson was former chairman of the Labour party,who campaigned for a YES vote last year.Done a lot of great work for Yes Clydebank etc.

    233. heedtracker says:

      Rancid’s The Graun in their Scotland region’s finally gone mad

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2015/nov/18/the-nationals-attack-on-the-daily-mail-is-hopelessly-wrong

      Sacrificial bams style STV tonight politics thing was a bit nuts too, if you’re not used to it.

      All three talking heads looked like they were just about to burst into tears. Polls look red and blue tory neck a neck, shock.

      That STV tv studio looks like the inside of a lit up colon. Why don’t they just all sit together with the berks over at BBC vote SLab Scotland, £400 million worth of shite.

    234. Ken500 says:

      A time that evidence of racism emerged for some people to observe. A corner shop in Penicuik covered in racist slogans. Disturbing.

      The 71 year old taxi driver in Dubdee who used the term P—-ki and was charged. He had apologised and should have been given a warning. Some elderly people used that word more frequently unfortunately not realising the offence it is causing. One elderly Aunt uses the ‘B’ word referring to relatives she adores. These ‘words’ were more commonly used in the past.

    235. Ken500 says:

      @ Dundee

    236. MorvenM says:

      Last we heard, Kezia was the constituency candidate here in Edinburgh Eastern. Kenny MacAskill is the current MSP, but is standing down. However, we’ve a great new candidate, Ash Denham, so there’s zero chance of Kez winning here. She’ll be on the list as well.

    237. Ken500 says:

      In the Methil incident do some of the youths not try to help the workers. They appear to be pushing the others away. They are all pished. Drink’s in the wit’s out. Some of them will be ashamed today. Black affronted.

    238. dakk says:

      Gary 45%. 11.08

      ‘Proud to be Scottish and a friend of Palestine’

      Well said Gary.

      What the Israelis do to the Palestinians is an affront to humanity.The fact the ‘civilized’Western democracies actually facilitate and support this genocide makes it seem even worse.

      The Kurds are another people who have their aspirations crushed at least in part by Western policies.

      The countless people living under brutal Western backed regimes are also no doubt one of the major causes of terror which are now reaping the whirlwind of.

    239. Ken500 says:

      @ Guardian nonsensical response.

      Roy Greenslade. The power of the twisted word. It’s like a comedy script. Like a riddle. Tears of laughter every line. The desperation despised every time.

      Got as far as the justification for : – ‘Thatcher was Nicola’s inspiration for going into politics.’ ie Nicola, ‘despised everything she stood for’. Amen say everyone else. .

    240. Petra says:

      @ Ken500

      That’s right Ken the Council carers get a higher rate of pay. Labour don’t have a clue.

      However Labour controlled Councils in Scotland, such as GCC, have also been notorious for putting out tenders for care and choosing the private company that submits the lowest bid (regardless of service record). These companies in turn have been choosing carers that have cars, have to pay for business insurance, pay for their own petrol and are not paid for travelling time between clients. The latter two points can vary between companies. All of this on the minimum wage. Hardly worth working at all. At one point in time I worked out that between paying tax, for petrol and so on they were literally working for under £3 an hour.

      Another side to this is that as these carers are so poorly paid they are desperate for extra hours of work. Some of the wee Hitlers running these companies abuse their positions, are bullies in fact, and pick and choose who will get extra hours: usually choosing their ‘favourites’. And if you are out of favour, or they just don’t like your face, hours can get cut. In other words many are stressed out never knowing from week to week what they will earn. Petrified that they won’t be able to pay their bills.

      Care, IMO, should be carried out by Council employed carers only, as it used to be, not by private Companies at all. If Kezia Dugdale is referring to these particular carers, thousands of them, the Councils will have to agree to pay the Companies more money. Has she said where SLab will get that from? Oh right APD ….. again!

      @ Stephen 11:34pm

      Thanks for that Stephen. He did a grand job with regard to McTernan. I really liked his style. Didn’t beat about the bush at all and managed to cram loads of facts in, in a fairly short period of time.

    241. Derek McLean says:

      I joined the “Scottish” Labour Party for £1, as per the Rev’s (not entirely serious) internal coup idea back in January. Then I bumped into Jim Murphy on the train, who took a liking to my 8 Yes badges ;-D
      Anyway my cheap-ass flimsy membership card was a UK Labour one, proving once and for all that “Scottish” Labour is indeed a pile of horse shit that has no say in anything other than what the main UK party tells them it does.
      Then they kicked me out! For tweeting support for the SNP at the elections there, since Labour had abandoned us all (like we hadn’t already figured).
      F*ck it! Think I’ll demand my membership reinstated and stand next election! I’m pretty sure anyone would have a better chance than the lot of them, and they could hardly accuse us of not holding Labour values, when they themselves don’t!
      It’s all rather hilarious, but much as it is entertaining, I for one look forward to the point in time when no one talks about Labour. They’re dead in Scotland, the last nail will be next election, and it’s only a matter of time before England realises too.
      More fun will be killing off the Tories! And all we have to do is the same as before. Keep watching their every move. They hate that we’re actually interested in politics. Used to be a free ticket, but not any more.

    242. Grendel says:

      The party list: ensuring that otherwise unelectable candidates get a joab. Democracy? My arse!

    243. Grendel says:

      “gus1940 says:
      18 November, 2015 at 1:47 pm
      Compare and contrast with today’s attempt by The Herald to portray strife within The SNP.

      It would appear that their Shotts members want to form a separate branch from Airdrie but Airdrie are against that.

      Sensational stuff compared with the impending battles within Labour.

      At least The SNP are showing signs of continuing expansion unlike Kez’s pathetic lot”

      Airdrie North applied to become a branch, only to see it kicked into the long grass by SNP HQ, a precursor to the night of the long knives which saw many leave the party in the wake of Neil Grays selection as MP camdidate.

      https://councilloralanbeveridge.wordpress.com/media/

      The good folk of Shotts were offered a devo-max option which would allow them to play at being a branch, but retain all the power in the hands of a few councillors. The Shotts members saw through the Stalinist attempts to exert control over them and tried again. Watch out for more departures from the party soon.

      The SNP in Airdrie (and North Lanarkshire) are reminiscent of a “Rotten Borough” (or Burgh in Airdrie’s case), and Labour’s ills should not be a distraction from what is going on in some places internally. As one of those with most to lose apparently said “Airdrie will be split up over my dead body!” Basically, screw the members, screw the processes, it’s all about ME!

      Labour can’t even come up with a candidate in Airdrie. Their candidacy is being passed around like The Chuckle Brothers on speed- To You, NOT to me, To YOU! Which means the people of Airdrie will be landed with some of the worst candidates for MSP ever.

    244. yesindyref2 says:

      @Grendel
      I’d read something about the troubles there, from a poster in the Herald. You never know how much is sour grapes, personalities or whatever, so I kept an open mind. But that article in the Herald shows the way of it, I think, just in the bare facts about the voting.

      The equivalent would be if in our Indy Ref, England, Wales and NI had the vote and said with their greater numbers “stuff that, you’re not going”. How SNP HQ itself can’t see that I don’t know, but then the current procedure is that the branch is responsible for its own “internal organisation”. Not good enough though.

      It’s the sort of thing I expected to be very vocal about in my local branch, which is one of 3/4/5 in a constituency association. Unfortunately I have no complaints about my branch, nice friendly active people even with our own shop officially opened on Saturday. I got to talk a little with John Swinney, a really nice guy.

      So it’s a pain, I don’t really have anything to complain about or campaign against 🙁

    245. JLT says:

      Already a shattered, demoralised mess, seven months out from an election Scottish Labour is about to embark on a bout of internecine warfare that even by its own brutal standards will make the scramble for the last helicopter out of Saigon look like a genteel garden party.

      Popcorn, beer and front row seat please. Could be the best piece of entertainment before the elections.

    246. john king says:

      Thepnr
      “Get enough volunteers and do it correctly, would be interesting at least and positive. Concrete evidence is what I’d like to see, you too, No?”

      Hod do you do it?
      do you have to have permission?
      do we need to register with electoral comission or someone?
      How many polling stations are there in Scotland (must be a few thousand Im guessing)?
      how would we organise it?

      LETS DO IT! 🙂
      ________________________________________________________
      Petra @ 8.45
      THE BEST post today
      I felt my spirits rising as I read, thank you so much for sharing that!
      _______________________________________________________
      Nana @ 9.01
      Escuse me
      theres something in my eye.
      What I watched there was something miraculous,
      the faces told a story of hope and a reawakeing (Irene and I would have been under that wings banner but her walking difficulties meant we had to go ahead to Calton hill by bus) I felt the surge of electricity we all felt while I watched that and read Alex Salmonds words that the politicians will not lead the movement to indepedence, WE WILL,
      we were so close to realizing a dream of a better country, I keep wiping tears away as I write but they are tears of hope not sadness, what was in that video has not gone
      it has not dissapeared into the night,
      Petra’s post proves that,

      We WILL prevail!
      __________________________________________________________
      Nana
      “Did you spot anyone around 3.15?”

      Rev Stu of course and the flag bearer was Kendomacaroonbar but the guy with the glasses escapes me, wasnt he the one controlling the copter thingy fluying over the crowds on the hill?
      _____________________________________________________
      BdtT SAY
      “I would suggest Castlehills Chavie…”

      Really?
      I cant see him,
      I met him at the hope over fear rally and he said we were all to come to his house next time we’re at an event in Glasgow and he’ll put us up
      didnt ye CHC?
      breakfast for 72 please (extra toast fur me please) 🙂

    247. Ghillie says:

      Petra @ 8.45pm Thanks for that wee story, really cheered me up! And rings true for what we are all hearing, this country has come alive!

      As for Slab, where is their dignity?

      (I know John King, stupid question, again!)

    248. Nana says:

      @John King

      I think there will be a good few tears spilled over that wee video. It gave me a boost, makes me determined to keep calm and carry on.

      Well the calm part is a bit hard right enough. Few more broken bits of crockery in the bin already this week!

    249. Ghillie says:

      Nana @ 9.01pm

      Folks, click on that wee film, it will make your day = )

    250. caz-m says:

      Nicola Sturgeon has just been on BBC Scotland’s GMS this morning being interviewed by that dirty, slimy, creepy, unionist bastard, Glen Campbell.

      I hope Nicola had a good hose down after it. The thought of that bastard being in the same room as the First Minister makes your skin crawl.

      Please Nicola, is you have to be interviewed BBC Scotland, make it a short conversation over the telephone or better still, by email.

    251. caz-m says:

      Nana 8.34am

      Re: Cameron’s new £10 Million pound plane.

      Does the First Minister of Scotland get to use this plane when she visits foreign lands?

      It would surely make financial sense. I think Nicola should make a wee enquiry about that.

    252. Nana says:

      I warn you the following is heartbreaking. I am sharing these so you can all share and hopefully more people will come to realise who is causing all this misery for profit.

      http://mashable.com/2015/11/06/lesbos-cemetery-runs-out-of-space-after-drowning-deaths/#qc2jI70DEkq1

      Harry Fear on facebook

      ‘In the Moria camp on Lesvos, I was stopped in my tracks by a child shivering uncontrollably. She was unable to walk or make eye contact – her hands and lips were literally blue. Her mother was nearby, also unable to walk.

      https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153643304267357&set=a.10150115722142357.294608.510962356&type=3

      UN warns of grim humanitarian situation as conflict claims over 5700 lives

      http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=52588#.VkzpicFOfv9

    253. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Much as I probably will enjoy watching SLAB tear itself even further apart before, during and after the 2016 Holyrood campaign and on into the 2017 Council elections, I feel watching some of the ousted Westminster failures jostling for list seats and s forth will not provide too-much of this hilarity.

      Those considered capable are being looked after. Gordon Brown carries the gravitas given to a former PM, regardless of how hopeless he was – he will be able to swan around the world for a good while yet. Alistair Darling has gone to be a zombie in the House of Lords, Jim Murphy, perhaps finally realising he is permanently tainted has supposedly left politics, while Douglas Alexander is supposedly hanging around London in the hope of something turning up.

      The rest, those who might hanker after a Holyrood place are, by and large, what is known around Westminster as: “low-flying Jimmies” – good only as “lobby fodder”. The party machine, such as there is remaining in Scotland, may wish to shoe-horn some into Holyrood, but, away from all those Westminster bars and London restaurants, will they feel comfortable, even wanted there.

      Some, Curran, Sarwar perhaps, will nae doots, never having had any self-awareness, think they still have something to offer, but, one senses, the electorate have seen through them.

      Should any of these be elected on the List, they will doubtless replace the sorely-missed Lord Foulkes of SCumnock as a down the bill comedy act.

      But, serious legislators, bringing fresh talents to Holyrood – Aye right.

    254. Nana @ 8.44.
      Thank you for that Nana. I always try never to use the word hate, but this morning I’m pretty close to using it after watching your posts.
      People with more knowledge than I have, have spelt out the many reasons for this humanitarian tragedy. But one fact remains inescapable, and that is over the last century successive Westminster Governments’ have been complicit in creating this situation.
      No more so than the present day Conservative and Labour parties. Now the warmonger Cameron wants to go even further and use our armed forces in Syria. Absolute madness which will only increase the suffering of the innocent civilian population, and make the risk of so-called terrorist attacks in the U.K more likely.
      And the day after it was announced that a record number of Scots had to use food banks, Downing Street see fit to announce spending £10m on a plane so the airhead occupying No 10 can gallivant around the world pretending to be important. As my old mother used to say, “He thinks he is the big cheese, but he is only the smell”.
      The sooner we detach ourselves from this dysfunctional bunch of chancers, the better.

    255. Edward says:

      Nana @ 8.34am

      Cameron’s Cam Farce 1, is actually more of a wheez than anyone actually realises and something that the media are, for reasons only known to them are a bit shy to explain.

      You see the RAF’s fleet of Airbus A330 ‘Voyager’ aircraft are not actually owned by the UK Government.
      The Aircraft are provided under a PFI arrangement.

      On 27 March 2008 the UK Ministry of Defence signed a deal to lease 14 aircraft under a private finance initiative arrangement from EADS-led consortium AirTanker.

      The nice chaps at the RAF explain :
      “The full passenger and cargo capability can be used while Voyager is configured for AAR operations. The cabin remains fully configured and the cargo compartments are unobstructed. On a typical deployment across the Atlantic, a single aircraft would be able to refuel 4 Tornados and still carry 11,000lb (5000kg) of freight/passengers.”

      http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton/equipment/kc30voyager.cfm

      So in a nutshell, the UK Government is leasing aircraft over a 27 year period from AirTanker under PFI. Airtanker are supplying aircraft that will be mainly used as Air to Air refuelling, but will also have an ‘AAR’ role that enables passengers to be carried. Currently the passengers are troops being transported, for example from and to exercise’s in Canada, or from and to Cyprus or Germany.

      So we are told that the cost of £ 10 million would be for ‘no frills’, well if its ‘no frills’, why the need for ‘upgrading’, considering the interior is already decked out for passengers, or is it a cases of good enough for the men and women serving in the military, but not good enough for Cameron?

      The other thing that should be asked is this. As these aircraft are leased under PFI, that includes the AAR arrangement, why on earth are we paying more for something that’s already being paid for?

    256. galamcennalath says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      “serious legislators”

      Indeed. You would have thought bringing in proven rejects wasn’t exactly a good tactic for avoiding further rejection.

    257. john king says:

      cAZ-M
      “Does the First Minister of Scotland get to use this plane when she visits foreign lands?”

      Aye for a wee consideration namely full value of a commecrcial flight + a suppliment for the chaff dispenser (more if she uses it)no doubt #better together

    258. Ken500 says:

      Cameron + associates (and Royals) used military aircraft and helicopters at great cost when convential travel would be £Millions cheaper. Wasting £Billions. The Military accounts do not add up but are buried under the Official Secrets Act.

    259. Edward says:

      Just to add to my post regarding Cameron’s spend of £ 10 million on aircraft that we don’t own
      AirTanker Limited is a wholly owned subsidiary of AirTanker Holdings Limited, which in turn is owned
      by:
      Babcock Southern Holdings LTD (13.33%)
      Cobham PLC (13.33%)
      European Aeronautic Defence & Space Company Eads Nv (40.0%)
      Rolls Royce PLC (20.0%)
      Thales Uk LTD (13.33%)

      Just so you know where your tax money is going

    260. john king says:

      caz-m @8.44
      bit between teeth now,
      so who’s up for a FoI on that one?
      the answer should be simple,
      the first minister should be senior to the secretaries of state and be third in senority to the PM and the Chancellor since she’s the First Minister of the largest country outside of England, and the secretaries of state are just,… well secretaries. 🙂

      just dinne be tempted tae push the chaff button, a bit mair expensive than the peanuts(warning this product may contain peanuts)instructions: open bag, eat peanuts 😮

    261. heedtracker says:

      To ensure that the blue tory party gets its best and brightest talents, what about the red tory party though?

      Red tory value for money?

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/18/wealthy-donors-tories-funding-raise-twice-much-labour

      The Tories received most of their money from individual donors, including a cash donation of £170,000 from the billionaire hedge fund manager, Christopher Rokos, who has given almost £2m since 2009.

      Rokos – a renowned figure in the City – is preparing to launch his own multibillion-pound hedge fund after departing from the London fund Brevan Howard, which he co-founded.

      Hopefully Malky Orford of Vote Nob Orders.com is in there too, no doubt some sits in Bliar Macdougal’s accounts. It bought stuff like Vote toryboy giant Alex Salmond pickpocketing English wallets billboards last May, England only ofcourse.

      They have every newsroom, the BBC, ITV, City billionaires, Vote Blue Tory Scotland, Better Together, nom nom

    262. Angra Mainyu says:

      Edward, interesting. I didn’t know pfi was used for military procurement.

      Makes me wonder why they don’t have planes for the new aircraft carrier. Think of the fun they’d have with it in the gulf right now… If only it had planes.

    263. caz-m says:

      John King

      With Osborne’s department cuts coming up next week, Nicola will be told to continue using Ryanair and Easyjet.

      The big shiny new plane is for the use of Dave and his South East of England business cronies, when they are abroad winning “UK” contracts.

      UK = South East of England, (well London).

    264. Ken500 says:

      Westminste take 50% of NS Oil production and then adds more tax on the sector. Thousands of jobs been lost because of the Westminster tax regime with the drop of Oil prices. Throwing the baby out with the bath water. Criminal incompetence. More Oil has to be imported increasing the balance of payment deficit.

      Westminster is shutting down all coal production in Britain. Coal is half the cost of (imported) Gas More coal will have to be imported putting up balance of payments deficit.Coal is plentiful all over
      Britain. Carbon capture and storage would be cheaper and safer and guarantee energy supplies.

      Nuclear is the dearest, dirtiest and most deadly. E.g. Japan. Nuclear waste is bring dumped on Ethopia and other countries.

    265. Hamish100 says:

      The snp must not get complacent . Talking to some folk from different constituencies recently there is a feeling amongst some that certain folk are being “promoted” because they are pals with a sitting MSP or now MP. The party must guard against such behaviours.
      For most of us voting for candidates despite maybe attending hustings there is a concern that maybe the best man or women was missed out.

    266. Ken500 says:

      Bloody Hell. They even have the planes on tick. Parasites.

    267. Edward says:

      Angra Mainyu @ 10.02 am

      In a word, Yes
      Actually the MOD have a dedicated department for PFI
      called the Private Finance Unit (PFU)

      MOD Weblink https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-mod-private-finance-unit

      So basically the UK government are saddling the UK with even more long term debt, but hiding it under PFI

      If you think about the hospitals in Scotland, for example built under PFI that are now costing Scotland billions (same for the rest of the UK). Then the same thing is happening with the MOD

    268. john king says:

      Ah cumon Quine frae Angus
      get them telt,
      Homes under the Hammer in Carlisle commenting on the local history shows Carlisle castle, and point out an “unwilling” resident was Mary Queen of Scots when was captured and taken south to her (ILLEGAL) death so how do HutH choose to portay that with their usual musical interlude?
      “Please release me “by Engelbert Humperdink

      Remember the reverence shown to the remains of Richard III
      when he was reinterred with full pagentry?
      while our Queen (who was murdered) is treated like an irrelevant side show,
      OFFENCE TAKEN!

    269. caz-m says:

      John King 9.59am

      For the sake of aw’ the dafties oot there, would you explain what a “chaff button” is. lol.

    270. Ken500 says:

      The Fund to mitigate the ‘bedroom tax’ in England is £25Million. Ie English Laws for English folk. What have they done? Voting for the Cameron joke. Flying round the world on tick, never ending holidays. Living it up on expenses. Some people need their heads examining, according to Ken Livingstone.

    271. john king says:

      Ken500
      “Westminster is shutting down all coal production in Britain. Coal is half the cost of (imported) Gas More coal will have to be imported putting up balance of payments deficit.Coal is plentiful all over
      Britain. Carbon capture and storage would be cheaper and safer and guarantee energy supplies. ”

      Remember Ken if Cameron hadnt taken away the subsidy for Longannets CC programme we would also be in a position to take carbon from Europe at even a nominal fee of £10.00 per cubic metre and bury it in our tailor made empty north sea wells and it would have generated more income for Scotland than the oil brings in (permanently) you know now why he was so keen to see Longannet closed eh guys?

    272. john king says:

      Chaff is when a wee man sits wi millions o rolls o baco foil and tears intae wee strips which when released by the big silver burd maks the radar screens think theres millions o airoplanes and it disnea ken which wan tae fire its missile at.
      issat aricht? 🙂

    273. Ken500 says:

      The BBC should be under the hammer – a sledge hammer. Hamming it up with the pig poker. The Queen purred. The land of milk and honey roast. Live pay later. Soon the lot of them will be toast. The sweet revenge.

    274. Ken500 says:

      Aye Cameron can’t count or understand elementary Maths but the Treasury will do it for him. Just hide the accounts under the Official Secrets Act. Keep on shooting blanks, abusing pigs and drinking in the spoils. Psychopathic behaviour. Some folk should have their heads examined, according to Ken Livingstone. He’s been troughing long enough. .

    275. Ken500 says:

      UKIP donations have dried up, after the GE failure. Can’t count or understand elementary Maths. UKIP the dunces favourite’s.

    276. Quinie frae Angus says:

      @ John King

      I completely agree with you. So much so that for that and several other reasons I left the thing more than three years ago and have had nothing to do with ever since. They recycle old stuff of mine but I now do completely different projects.

      There are about 30 people involved with it and I hope you know me well enough that if that particular story had been under my watch it would have been written and edited in an entirely different way!

      As a viewer I would have taken just as much offence at that as you have. I will be having words with them, I can tell you.

    277. ahundredthidiot says:

      Fireproofjim @10.33 yesterday

      Now you’ve had the night, and I assume you can navigate the internet, would you like to review your position?

      USA did have a 90% tax rate, granted very few hit it, but a lot hit 70%. And save me the old ‘everyone will leave’ bullshit. I don’t do blackmail.

      This is us jimbo (our society) – a spoiled little bitch who has maxed out 7 credit cards, waits tables part- time for minimum wage, and is applying for an eighth card so she can buy some new nukes to keep up with her pal across the pond.

      Someone has to pay.

    278. caz-m says:

      BBC News,
      “Sarah Smith appointed Scotland Editor for BBC News.”

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2015/sarah-smith-scotland-editor-news

      And here was me thinking that Sarah Smith was in a Rehab Centre for has-been news reporters.

    279. Andrew McLean says:

      caz-m says:
      19 November, 2015 at 10:20 am
      John King 9.59am

      For the sake of aw’ the dafties oot there, would you explain what a “chaff button” is. lol.

      Actually he means countermeasures, silver strips of “Chaff” is only one, it includes flares, the burning type not nifty 70s trews, and electronic.
      Countermeasures are fascinating, especially ones used by ICBMs they have their own defense systems built in including electronic and physical like Chaff, balloons and flares to protect it from attack on its way to Armageddon.

    280. Brian Powell says:

      Well, Sarah Smith is Scottish in a Londony way, and a Labourite, and Scotland is Labour in a Londony way, so it’s good enough for Scotland.

    281. Training Day says:

      The BBC have appointed a Labour stooge as Scotland editor for news?

      Feather. Knock. Down.

    282. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ken500 says: 19 November, 2015 at 10:09 am:

      “Westminste take 50% of NS Oil production and then adds more tax on the sector.”

      For heaven’s sake, Kenn500, where the hell do you get this, “Westminster take 50% of NS Oil production”.?

      The truth is that ALL North Sea oil & Gas is classed by Westminster as being extracted from, “Extra-Regio-Territory”, and classed as belonging to the UK Treasury.

      They then, just for statistical use, credit Scotland with having provided 8.4% of that revenue but we do NOT get that 8.4% as cash. They just use the 8.4% figure to produce naff statistics for the other lies they tell.

      I’ve drawn you up on this wrong fact several times – when will you stop trying to prove otherwise?

      All oil & gas revenues from the entire North Sea is accounted for by the UK Treasury as coming from Extra Regio Territories. Then they fiddle things further, (only for statistical usage), by allocating the income on a per capita basis when the truth is that 95% of that revenue comes from Scottish Territorial Waters and should be treated as geographic instead of by population. Not that it matters as we in Scotland get none of the cash.

      Some folk think that 8.4% means Scotland gets 8.4% of the cash – we get none of it. All the Scottish Government get is the Block Grant and that is decided by Westminster by use of the Barnett Formula but they even fiddle that too. They do this two ways – the first is by use of Barnett Consequentials. These are set according to the funding for England. The second is by funding English infrastructure from funding that doesn’t carry Barnett Consequentials.

      Here’s some of them – £4.1 bn for the New London Sewerage System paid for from Government reserves. There are no Barnett Consequentials and the entire UK tax funds Government Reserves. So we get stung twice. No extra Consequentials and we pay our whack to the Government reserves.

      Then there is the London Cross-Rail that we help pay for. The Chunel and all the road and rail infrastructure that supports it. The HSS rail links. National Art Galleries, theatres, Orchestras, Museums, Opera, Ballet. Et Al.

      All great tourist attractions in London that Scots get no benefits from. The list is endless.

    283. Another Union Dividend says:

      o/t The report into the collapse of HBOS in Autumn 2008 is due later.

      On BBC Scotland radio this morning Douglas Fraser repeated the myth that HBOS was the first bank failure when it was in fact Northern Rock. HBOS troubles were a direct result of the Halifax Building Society merger in 2001 which was really a takeover that changed the whole culture of the Bank of Scotland.

      When Unionists raise the “Scottish Banks” issue we should remind them of their pivotal role in the affair.

      The Banks were overseen by the inept UK Financial Services Authority that was encouraged to take a light touch by Ed Balls, Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling.

      In October 2007, barely three weeks after bailing out Northern Rock for £26 billion, the FSA and Alistair Darling signed off their approval for the fatal RBS takeover of ABN Amro without undertaking any due diligence. Incredibly, the FSA overlooked their own rules on capital liquidity by allowing RBS to do the £49bn ABN Amro deal.

      Fred Goodwin, who was knighted by Labour in 2004, was one of Darling’s financial advisers at the time and remained so until several months after RBS collapse.

      The lack of decisive action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government after Northern Rock failed could have cost up to one million people their jobs according to the Bank of England Governor, Sir Mervyn King and would have at least mitigated some of the HBOS fall out.

      In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government in the early days of the banking crisis could have cost up to one million people their jobs.

      He said: “In August 2007 came the moment when financial markets began to realise that the emperor had no clothes.

      “From the start of the crisis, central banks provided emergency loans but these amounted to little more than holding a sheet in front of the emperor to conceal the nakedness of the banks. They didn’t solve the underlying problem – banks needed not loans but injections of shareholders’ capital in order to be able to absorb losses from the risky investments they had made.

      “From the beginning of 2008, we at the Bank of England began to argue that UK banks needed extra capital – a lot of extra capital, possibly £100?billion or more. It wasn’t a popular message.”

      Read more on the Banking crisis at:

      http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/bizforscotland-destroys-the-no-campaigns-bank-bail-out-lies/

      As Alasdair Gray wrote: ‘Let us flourish by telling the truth’.

    284. heedtracker says:

      Sarah Smith appointed Scotland Editor for BBC News

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/dead-air/#more-78576

      Her show is hardly watched by anyone really, they refuse to produce view figure, then she gets promoted.

      How very red tory UKOK.

      Great news for Scottish democracy though.

    285. Colin Church says:

      caz-m @ 11:05

      Sarah’s official title is Scottish Labour Director of Communications @ BBC Scotland Accounting Unit.

      We will have Sarah Kuenssberg monstering Corbyn Labour on EBC and wee Sarah Smith propping up the remnants of SLAB on BBC Scotland Accounting Unit.

      Wee Sarah’s bonus package will be linked to SLABs / SNP opinion poll ratings a la Cockers at the Telegraph. She is waiting for her call from Dave for a nice no 10 chat to co-ordinate SNP BAD efforts.

      Fetches popcorn.

    286. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Sarah Smith to be Scotland Editor for BBC News.

      Jings crivvens, help ma Boab; we’ve really got them worried. Perhaps someone better-informed than I can correct me if I am wrong, but, I am taking this to mean Sarah will be working for BBC London, rather than BBC Scotland.

      She may not even he based up here, but will have the chance of logging some handy Air Miles commuting between London and up here.

      Thus, she is a sort of District Commissioner, charged with telling England what England wants to hear about Scotland, while keeping the natives up here on-message.

      Good luck to her on that. I think Scotland now knows, the BBC is nothing more than the Voice of London and anything which appears from their Scotland Editor will have a distinctly UKOK slant.

      They are getting desperate.

    287. Sinky says:

      With the HBOS report coming out to-day, BBC Scotland adopting the Labour strategy of this being a good day to release bad news over Sarah Smith.

      They just don’t care about their image anymore and will work on wife not to pay the latest licence renewal reminder.

    288. Grouse Beater says:

      Caz-M: “Sarah Smith appointed Scotland Editor for BBC News.”

      She’s not successful, in my opinion, presenting a strong interviewing presence. A behind the scenes desk job might suit her better. But the ‘show’ remains lightweight banter.

    289. Jack Murphy says:

      stephen said on 19 November, 2015 at 12:14 am:—
      Petra at 11.34
      “Bob Thomson was former chairman of the Labour party,who campaigned for a YES vote last year.Done a lot of great work for Yes Clydebank etc.” 🙂
      Thanks for that info—-I went into Scotland Tonight late,and only recognised John McTernan Labour’s/Blair’s Spin Doctor.

      Probably now Archived and available to view on-line.

    290. Paul says:

      Loving it!!!!!

    291. Lenny Hartley says:

      Robert Peffers think Ken500 is talking about the level of tax per barrel. Ie 50% of the gross amount paid per barrel to the producer. In some older fields the tax take is a lot higher if I remember correctly

    292. Ken500 says:

      Wealthy Americans never paid 90% tax. They are tax evading non Doms since 1980’s when Thatcher set up (world) tax havens. They pay little tax at all in the US or anywhere else. They Trawl the world picking up over priced profits using (US) patents to create an (illegal) monopoly. They can charge what they like. Illegally breaking equal competition trading rules/Laws. Some do eventually give it away to Africa who the West have illegally cheated out of relevant revenues. They can’t take it with them.

      Nuclear waste is being dumped on Africa. Another illegal spin off, with disasterous consequences. Any costly spill will have to be cleaned up and decontaminated. How to ruin the world. Nuclear.

    293. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I found Sarah Smith somewhat hesitant or unsure but far from the worst on BBC Scotland and I got to feel she was not all that comfortable with the agenda she was playing a part in. I don’t think she got Scotland initially when she came back. A watching brief is probably best here but I certainly feel she realised she was swimming against a very strong tide after a few months.

    294. ScottieDog says:

      O/T
      Just thinking, as the outcome of the Scotland bill becomes apparent, I think that in the run up to the Scottish elections, a single page leaflet should be posted through every door, perhaps in tabular form/matrix listing which powers are devolved and which are reserved.

      This shouldn’t be an SNP campaign leaflet but a Scottish govt fact sheet. Should anyone complain about it they should be referred to the UK govt ‘fact’ sheets which were delivered pre-referendum.

      So for example any pish spouted by MSM about scotgovt and pensions for example can be put to bed immediately.

    295. caz-m says:

      Re: Sarah Smith,

      If you are still daft enough to be paying Sarah Smith’s wages through paying your Licence Fee, please have another think about it today.

      Sarah Smith is getting a pay rise, the very next day after the BBC announced cuts to it’s sports coverage. If they cut the sports coverage in Scotland any further, we will be left with getting the results read to us at 5pm on a Saturday night.

      Give yourself an early xmas present by cancelling your TV licence.

    296. Andrew McLean says:

      Another Union Dividend says 11:22

      Great post, but remember the deregulation started by Thatcher and boosted by her pal Brown was the reason the crisis was so large in the UK HQ Banks. Its incorrect to call this a global crisis. I do agree that its effects were global, but this was due to the destabilizing effects of the toxic debt, and casino banking that many banks saw as great money spinners without understanding what they were doing.
      There is also a good argument that due to the failures to sort out the banking system in the 1970 savings and loan crisis allowed bad practice to become acceptable.
      I do agree its amazing how many use the lies surrounding the bailouts to be stated as facts, especially from financial experts who cannot be so ignorant.

    297. Iain says:

      I hope that Nicola, when she listens to Hamerons argument for bombing Syria says no and does not condone war crimes and put the people of Scotland at risk of retaliation.

    298. heedtracker says:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12004712/Cambridge-University-drops-racist-David-Starkey-from-video.html

      Red torygirl Smith gets promoted, blue toryboy gets demoted. Its only UKOK logic in action

      “The whites have become black. A particular sort of violent, destructive, nihilistic, gangster culture has become the fashion.”

      At the time, Jeremy Corbyn demanded to know why Newsnight presenter Emily Maitlis had not challenged the remarks sooner.
      And TV presenter Piers Morgan said: “RIP David Starkey’s TV career. And good riddance. Racist idiot.”

      Starkey on Scottish democracy much the same, but apples and pears in teamGB.

    299. ronnie anderson says:

      O/T

      Toon in & see whit Dippity Dug has in store for us today, so,s Sherriff Dippity Dug & her Posse.

    300. Ken500 says:

      Any Bank bailouts will be returned with massive profits. Another Con trick. With the criminals getting off. The fraud was committed in the housing pozzi schemes in London S/E and the Midlands not Scotland. Thatcher/Regan was responsible for dangerously deregulating banking.

    301. Ken500 says:

      Nicola will not bomb Syria. The SNP members won’t let her. The members fund the Party. That is why she can/will do the right thing. She and Alex and Co are fit for them. Hold their feet to the fire. They will be fired.

    302. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 19 November, 2015 at 10:16 am:

      ” … Remember the reverence shown to the remains of Richard III when he was reinterred with full pagentry?
      while our Queen (who was murdered) is treated like an irrelevant side show,
      OFFENCE TAKEN!”

      Careful there John, you’ll be getting the same treatment I often get from certain commenters here who have been completely brainwashed by the Establishment propaganda machine.

      If they actually were taught any history it was as a dry and boring subject and contained more myths and lies in the lessons than a West of Scotland Labour Party constituency meeting contains in the minutes of the meeting.

      There is more bunk in taught Scottish history than in all the Scottish Youth Hostels put together. These would be detractors all know the fairy tale myth of Bruce and the spider but have never even heard of the much more relevant Battle of Old Byland.

      http://www.debrustrail.org.uk/battle-of-byland.html

      We are, as a nation, what our history has made of us and knowing how Scotland has always been shafted by the Establishment opens eyes. Thing is the eyes have to be a little open to see the rest of the truths.

    303. frogesque says:

      Dear Labour (Scottish Branch Unaccountable Unit)

      I want a strong party of opposition at Holyrood, both to advance fresh, new ideas and to hold decision making to constructive examination.

      You are quite entitled to have different policies from the SNP, Tory and Green parties. You do not have to be a distorted reflection of London in a badly silvered mirror, rather, you have to be honest, forthright and bold. Above all you absolutely MUST put Scotland first.

      When you have finished your internecine warfare and ceased the promotion of blatant self interest and finally come together as a true party of Scotland, for Scotland then your policies, (once you have decided what they actually are), can be promoted. Good folk will take you seriously and examine them critically but fairly and see how they can be embraced within a modern progressive Country.

      Scotland does not need papered cracks and uneasy truces foisted on the public whilst behind locked doors the fists fly and blood stains the carpet darker than Lady Macbeth’s hands.

      It is make or break time. Either continue on the road to oblivion or reform – the choice is yours.

    304. heedtracker says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      19 November, 2015 at 11:42 am
      I found Sarah Smith somewhat hesitant or unsure but far from the worst on BBC Scotland and I got to feel she was not all that comfortable with the agenda she was playing a part in.

      Problem is, by standards of performance that we are told to judge media with, she is a staggering failure in Scotland. It makes a mockery of the licence fee or just another example of BBC corruption.

    305. ahundredthidiot says:

      Stephen Kings book ‘when the money runs out’ is an interesting read. I don’t subscribe 100% to everything he says, but it is sobering nonetheless.

      Past behaviour could be an indicator of future behaviour and we missed the opportunity to take the Icelandic approach (convict bankers and write off a proportion of debt) so I see trouble ahead.

      Raising taxes and writing off debt has to be the way forward. Tories tackling benefits will hardly scrape the surface. UK debt is still rising.

    306. Andrew McLean says:

      Iain says:
      19 November, 2015 at 11:47 am
      and put the people of Scotland at risk of retaliation.

      Appeasement, you and me already are a legitimate target, we are infidels , sub human, or do you think if we went up to the suicide bombers and said “Hey man were Scottish” they would say “oh sorry of course you Scots are great what with your haggis and bagpipes, and kilts”,

      I agree in so far we may not have started the fire, but it will burn us regardless.

    307. ScottieDog says:

      @Andrew McLean
      Just expanding on that slightly. It was after the oil shocks and high inflation of the 70s when the monetarists saw their opportunity to claim that government spending with a view to reaching full employment was inflationary.

      They ignored the fact that inflation was due to a supply problem at the time and so the belt tightening/govt household myth took hold. Even the labour govt (pre-thatcher) started to make reference to such new-liberal phrases.

      How do you expand the economy and the money supply if the government isn’t going to do it? Well you get private banks to do it instead. At the time however, and rightly so (my old man was a bank manager) there was sensible regulation on bank lending and so the banks were constrained in how much money they could create. The simple solution to that of course is deregulation as you mentioned. So the private debt bubble was born and perpetuated by the Tories and labour.

      The same economists fail to mention that bank money created as debt IS inflationary when it is pumped into mortgage markets and is the real reason for the tripling of house prices under Blair/Brown.

      The bubble is continuing onwards today. A govt surplus is basically a non-govt deficit which means we can only grow the economy through increased private sector borrowing. The city of London wins. We lose.

    308. Grouse Beater says:

      Being the party of opposition does not mean being the party of opposition only.

      An opposition party must promote fresh, alternative, and viable policies to that of the incumbent administration if it is to have any credibility as a future administration.

      For Labour to find fault day in, day out with the SNP MSPs, hoping to have this or that politician referred to a disciplinary committee, is frankly suicidal.

      The public see an opposition mired in Tammany Hall politics, unfit to govern.

    309. heedtracker says:

      Lesley Riddoch in the National today.

      “BBC players like Nick Robinson don’t come from a variety of political backgrounds, they come by and large from one – the Conservative Party. The BBC’s instinctive default is to discuss the opinions, perspectives and darlings of the Establishment.”

      And Sarah Smith comes from the SLabour party. They get the jobs for life, they gets stacks of cash with out any work performance pressures but…

      How to get us to stop voting SNP?

    310. Big Jock says:

      Farcical BBC -http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14043696.Sarah_Smith_appointed_BBC_s_first_Scotland_Editor/

    311. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Can we have a national ‘What’s The Actual Point Of You?’ Day, and start with Willie Rennie?

    312. ahundredthidiot says:

      If RT is to be believed, Russia have just hammered Isis oil wells, refineries and logistical supply route.

      If true, someone has just lost a fortune.

      I won’t hold my breath waiting for MSM following the money.

    313. mealer says:

      Dippity looks like she doesn’t want to be there.

    314. Ken500 says:

      @ Oil Revenues

      Westminster takes 50% of Oil production. The UK Gov add on taxes on Oil companies takes even more taxes. With the price drop ie halved the producers can’t produce because it is not profitable. (There would be losses) That is why thousands of people are losing their jobs in Scotland. The Oil industry is being mismanaged by Westminster. The producers (Oil companies) have expenses, before the Oil can be extracted/produced. If the UK Gov regime/take was lowered. It would still be profitable to produce the Oîl and thousands would not be losing their jobs in Scotland, affecting the Scottish economy. Scotland usually gets more revenues from £thousands of Oil sector jobs and the supply chain.

      At present Westminster(or Scotland) is getting no income/or little because of the lower barrel Oil price. The Oil industry is being mismanaged by Westminster. There is also Oil reserves which can be developed on the West. If Trident was cut (saving £1/2Billion in revenues) and increasing £Billion in Oil revenues.

    315. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just looking at the photie up-up there – doesn’t Neil Findlay always look as if he’s ready for a square-go?

      “WTF are you looking at?”
      “I’m taking a group photograph, and you happen to be in the group.”
      “Awright, smartarse, eh?”

    316. Ken500 says:

      Millionaire Nick Robinson comes from Oxbridge – the same as all the Establishment clones. The seat of Unionist privilege. Too smart for their own good.

    317. Andrew McLean says:

      A hundred Idiot

      Yes I thought they might given Putin letting the cat out of the bag, when he disclosed they were looking at the supply route, so they lost money they will need to find some hostages to barter, or women to sell.

      Ian Brotherhood

      Wee Willie winkle, well the poem tells us “A wee, stumpie, stousie, that canna rin his lane”

    318. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/19/bbc-appoints-sarah-smith-as-first-ever-scotland-editor

      Britnat propagandists of 2015 puts it all non perspective. Actually rancid The Graun copes with Scottish democracy and indeed the whole of their Scotland region by simple UKOK black out of anything remotely Scotland.

      but as Sevy sezs

      “Smith is expected to work closely with BBC Scotland’s incoming head of news and current affairs, Gary Smith, a Glaswegian and a veteran executive who is currently UK news editor in London.

      The BBC statement said she would “strengthen the BBC’s ability to report on the changing face of Scotland and how that impacts across the rest of the UK”. Gary Smith said: “I’m very pleased that Sarah is joining our top-class team in Glasgow. Her experience, knowledge and enthusiasm will be invaluable.”

      That’ll teach em, Rule Britannia!

    319. Andrew McLean says:

      Ian Brotherhood

      Its apt they are holding that sign, for are they not our own “satirical caricatures” our own “political cartoons”!

    320. gerry parker says:

      Aye Ian, when I hear “Question number 3, Willie Rennie”

      I just stop watching FMQ’s

      What a waste of space he is.

    321. ahundredthidiot says:

      Andrew MacLean@12:33

      Sorry, who do you think has lost a fortune?

      My monies on a member of NATO

    322. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says: 19 November, 2015 at 11:28 am

      “Sarah Smith to be Scotland Editor for BBC News.

      Jings crivvens, help ma Boab; we’ve really got them worried. Perhaps someone better-informed than I can correct me if I am wrong, but, I am taking this to mean Sarah will be working for BBC London, rather than BBC Scotland.”

      Oh! Laughable.

      Way back at the beginnings of, “Wireless Broadcasting”, saw the birth of the BBC.

      This began as a Wireless Station with a call-sign, “2LO”. The Broadcasts all began,

      “London Calling!”

      “London Calling!”.

      Thus began the British Broadcasting Corporation in London.

      Now we see the BBC returning to its true roots as the public voice of the London Westminster propaganda machine that it really always has been.

      “LONDON CALLING!”

      “LONDON CALLING!

      Aye!
      Richt Enouch!
      Wi kent that aa the time.

    323. seanair says:

      caz-m
      Doing just that, setting in motion my cancellation of my TV licence.
      Sweeter to know that I’m not paying a penny to Sarah Smith.

    324. manandboy says:

      “What happened in September last year was that Scotland was asked to consider the price of independence, but not to consider its value.

      The value of independence remains like a bright shining beacon in the darkness of a long Tory night where hope is extinguished with every benefits sanction, with every job that’s lost.” (WGD in The National today)

    325. Ken500 says:

      Andrew Neil has been on the piss again. Talking more nonsense. The EBC should bring drink/drug tests on employees. Alcoholics make poor decisions.

      Well done Alex Salmond. A breath of fresh air.

      Putin tried to get the talks with the West and Assad/Syria to find a diplomatic solution. The West refused. US/UK and France.

    326. Fran says:

      @ frogesque 12.07

      Lady MacBeth was nothing like Slab, she fed the poor from her own kitchen.

      Remember Shakespeare’s MacBeth was early English propaganda, they weren’t the evil couple as portrayed.

      But the rest of what you wrote I liked.

    327. Andrew McLean says:

      Robert Peffers 12:41

      CLASH

      London calling, yes, I was there, too
      An’ you know what they said? Well, NONE of it was true!
      London calling at the top of the dial GMS
      After all this, won’t you give me a smile?
      London calling
      I never felt so much that I like INDEPENDANCE [fading] I like I like I like

    328. john king says:

      Thanks for that response Quine
      Irene thinks I being a professional offence taker, but the contsant stream of disparaging attitudes coming out of UK programmes is relentless and this constant “attack is the best defence” attitude of theirs where the accuse us of a permanet state of “greavance” should be taken and shoved right back down their throats,

    329. manandboy says:

      Peter A Bell commenting in The National on WGD article:

      Is it really “obvious to everyone that the economic case for independence which was put forward by the SNP during the independence campaign was flawed”? I’m not so sure.

      WGD contends that the referendum result proves the SNP’s economic arguments were not up to scratch. But that would only be the case if people were voting on the basis of those arguments. It is safe to say that most were not. They were, rather, voting on the British media’s grotesquely distorted representation of what the Scottish Government was saying.

      Aided by the media, the British establishment twisted an essentially constitutional issue into an arid economic argument. They did so, in part, because the constitutional case for independence is unarguable. But the main reason for making the referendum all about economics was that economic “evidence” is almost infinitely malleable. It can be made to “prove” pretty much whatever you want.

      The anti-independence campaign’s greatest success – some would say its only success – was to rip the heart out of what should have been a rich constitutional debate so as to turn it into a mere cost/benefit analysis. A cost/benefit analysis being no more than an impressively complicated way of getting from a preconceived idea to a foregone conclusion.

      The SNP’s economic case was well-formed, but as unremarkable as any economic analysis based on purely pragmatic considerations. It was pretty dull, because economic reality is pretty dull. Even if it had been absolutely flawless, there was no way it was ever going to compete with hysterical headlines and breathless broadcasts about sky-collapsing catastrophe. It was (with all due respect to the man) stodgy, stuffy John Swinney armed only with the mundane versus an army of doom-mongering Jeremiahs on steroids equipped with an arsenal that was limited only by their ability to conjure calamitous scenarios from their febrile imaginations.

      And what of the British establishment’s economic arguments? How much scrutiny were they subjected to? Every claim and assertion made by Better Together, the British parties and the UK Government was treated by the media as irrefutable fact. When the British Treasury stated that the costs of setting up administrative infrastructure in a newly independent Scotland was estimated at an incredible – in the truest sense of that word – £2.7bn, the media parroted that figure without hesitation, despite the fact that it was quite obviously nonsensical.

      It was inevitable that economic factors would come into the referendum debate. But they should dnever have been allowed to totally dominate that debate. And to whatever extent economic consideration had to be taken into account, it was essential that all the arguments be subject to similar scrutiny. The conduct of the anti-independence campaign was an affront to democracy. The mainstream media were complicit in an effort to misinform, deceive and intimidate the people of Scotland. Inundated by a torrent of negative propaganda, it was impossible for people to make an informed choice.

    330. manandboy says:

      Ken Mair on WGD article :

      I cannot believe Scots let this happen. Step by step the nation was led into the unionists smoke and mirrors studio where they controlled everything.
      A referendum about a human right to self determination was magically treated as if it was an election. We were told it was a war instead of an opportunity to hear the voice of the people on whether or not they want to realize the human right to self determination, the right to nationailty.
      “Yes” was painted as if it was only the SNP, SNP was reduced to Alex Salmond
      Alex Salmond was demonised. All reporting was done under the category of Party politics with briefed reporters.
      The case for self determination was reduced to economic issues and the establishment and media lined up behind the unionists. The grass roots demonstrations were ignored or misrepresented.
      With a combination of misrepresentation,reduction and overloading the simple question of self government was not even discussed.

    331. HandandShrimp says:

      I don’t know who Gary Smith is but it will interesting to see what the BBC slant on news will be with Gary and Sarah in charge.

      My gut feeling is that it will be as Labour as Labour thing that has been to the shops for an extra packet of Labour….but you never know. It is unlikely to be worse than what has gone before.

    332. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lenny Hartley says: 19 November, 2015 at 11:37 am:

      “Robert Peffers think Ken500 is talking about the level of tax per barrel.”>/I>

      Yes, Lenny, I gathered that but my point is that, no matter at what level the Establishment levies tax upon each barrel, every last ha’penny of it goes directly to the Westminster Treasury and not a ha’penny of it is given to Scotland.

      Likewise the Road Fuel Duty paid at the Pump by the consumer. That too all goes to Westminster – as does the VAT levied upon that purchase of fuel at the pump. Then, of course, there is the duty paid by the refinery on every litre that leaves the refinery gate.

      Westminster creams it all off for itself. Scotland’s sole funding comes via the Block Grant and the level of that grant is set by the de facto Parliament of England a.k.a. The UK Parliament.

      That though is only the start of the scams for they then miss no chance to do Scotland, Wales & NI. down.

      They have been at it since 1 May 1707 when the Union first began. The Rev Stu published on WoS an account from the 1800s that showed we Scots were subsidising England back then too : –

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-historical-debt/

      This is a real eye opener for many who think Scotland is too poor.

    333. Grouse Beater says:

      I cannot believe Scots let this happen.

      Aye, and was all conducted from two sweat ponging, small rooms in Glasgow, where no one knew what was happening, Darling acted on his own, and McDougall couldn’t get out of bed until after 10am, and even then rarely managed to meet a deadline. (What fool would employ him?)

      Doesn’t say much about Scots resilience, does it?

      But it does say what happens to a nation made docile after 300 years subservience.

      “Too small, too weak, too stupid” worked a treat because we always believed it.

    334. heedtracker says:

      If anyone cares, classic anti Holyrood/SNP attack propaganda front page of neo fascist Voice of The North Press and Journal today. Huge Wullie Young enraged photo, angered at new AWPR by-pass money holding up Aberdeen road improvements, apparently.

      Pretty staggering even for these Slabour/P&J frauds considering the whole SLab unionist council’s sat and watch Aberdeen trying to cope with a victorian road net work since they struck oil in the 70’s. Very sneaky shits around in Aberdeen, must be an election coming.

    335. BJ says:

      Sarah Smith Is Labours version of Nick Robinson.

      Great news for the recruiting office of Independence for Scotland.

    336. manandboy says:

      INSIGHT through REFLECTIVE HINDSIGHT

      While fully recognising the need to be fully attentive to current events, there remains a strong case for reflection on IndyRef14, as shown by WGD in The National today, and by Peter A Bell and Ken Mair in the comments which followed.

      There is a rich vein of insight containing invaluable knowledge to be applied to IndyRef2

    337. manandboy says:

      A tablet has serious disadvantages! Grrr…

    338. caz-m says:

      seanair 12.49pm
      “Doing just that, setting in motion my cancellation of my TV licence.
      Sweeter to know that I’m not paying a penny to Sarah Smith.”

      Have a merry xmas seanair, you know it makes sense.

      You also get a rebate and remember to cancel their “right of access” to your property.

      Don’t tell anyone, but a lot of punters actually still watch the telly AFTER they cancel it.

      Live life on the edge!

    339. Robert Peffers says:

      @Hamish100 says: 19 November, 2015 at 10:09 am:

      “The snp must not get complacent . Talking to some folk from different constituencies recently there is a feeling amongst some that certain folk are being “promoted” because they are pals with a sitting MSP or now MP. The party must guard against such behaviours.”.

      Awe! Come on, Hamish100. This is absolute crap. Every card carrying member of the SNP from Nicola Sturgeon to the newest member has exactly the same number of votes on party matters.

      Each constituency chooses its candidate from the approved list of candidates and that list is also set up by the members.

      A constituency may have more than one branch but for the Constituency Candidate for MP or MSP every member gets a vote and for MEP and councillors the relevant branch members get a vote. Every member is encouraged to attend branch or constituency meetings. Many choose not to take an active part but all get a vote.

      So there it is – it is the members of the party that choose who they want as their candidates. The only restriction being who gets in first for their first choice. If the branch or constituency association leaves it late the more desirable candidates may all have already been selected.

      One thing for sure is that there will be no one on the approved list that has known faults but there has been the occasional badun slip through. As did a certain wife beater but even then he was chosen by a party and a constituency unaware of his criminal record.

    340. ronnie anderson says:

      Am fair sick , Bbc hivnae sent me anither Demand letter ah wiz sair lookin furwurd tae it anaw.

    341. terry says:

      Actually I think that more should have been made of John Swinney during the referendum. He’s got that modest, serious and prudent Scottish aura which says your money is safe in his hands. People respect that in a chancellor – let’s face it Gordy Broon seemed to have that appeal for some.

      The Yes campaign – the grassroots in particular – painted a positive and progressive picture of what an indy Scotland could be. On the cultural side it kicked that shortbread tin twee picture of our culture into the long grass. It built confidence. But I feel we must recognise that Project Fear and all that guff of the broad shoulders of the Uk did impact against us.

      So for next time let’s keep up the positivity – but at the same time paint the UK as a stale, bankrupt old ship that is sinking fast. It’s had its day and it’s not Scotland’s role to save it. Let’s face it if it wasn’t for the referendum and the exposure of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP in the general election I doubt Jeremy Corbyn would never have been elected. (Don’t get me wrong – his stance on Scotland is at best ill advised). RUK will need to save itself.

      One idea would be to have a list of tailored arguments that Wingers have used that converted a No to a Yes during the referendum. There are many ways to crack a nut but using the right tool for the right scenario can make all the difference. To me it’s a no brainer – what normal country doesn’t want to take responsibility for running its own affairs? But that doesn’t register with the fearties, does it?

      Anyway thanks to a helpful Winger on here I’ve got my list of all the wonders of the Scottish economy and resources and will be printing out copies to take round the doors come the next round of canvassing. And if independence is not in the manifesto I’ll still be doing it as people need to believe in the wealth and potential of this country and stop quivering under the MSM constant put-downs and lies.

    342. Petra says:

      @ heedtracker says at 12:35 pm

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/nov/19/bbc-appoints-sarah-smith-as-first-ever-scotland-editor

      ……“Smith is expected to work closely with BBC Scotland’s incoming head of news and current affairs, Gary Smith, a Glaswegian and a veteran executive who is currently UK news editor in London. The BBC statement said she would “strengthen the BBC’s ability to report on the changing face of Scotland and how that impacts across the rest of the UK.” ……

      Is this the BBC’s answer to falling viewing rates across Scotland? Sarah Smith daughter of the late John Smith, one time Labour Leader, and Baroness Smith who made it clear that she was totally against Scottish Independence. Made it clear on a number of occasions for example in the Daily Record … surprise surprise! All in it (Better) Together.

      Baroness Smith: ”On Thursday, each of us bears a great responsibility to the generations who will follow us, for there is no turning back from independence and it is our children and their children who will feel the enduring consequences of our votes …

      For generations, Scots have lived and worked across these islands and beyond; we have stood shoulder to shoulder with friends, colleagues and family in England, Wales and Ireland. We built great ships together, we sailed the seven seas and discovered new lands and cultures, we fought and won the world wars together and we founded the trade union movement and the Labour Party together ……

      Before you cast a vote, think of our children, and their children, and the bigger British family of which we have long been an important part. And please vote “no thanks” on Thursday.”

      ”It is our children and their children who will feel the enduring consequences of our votes …” Baroness Smith got that one right.

      With around at least 50% of Scots supporting the SNP you would think that the BBC in Scotland would employ around 50% of like minded presenters, and so on. No?! What about 25%, 10% or even 1%? They just don’t get it do they?

      Now I know most of you will have seen this before and it’s out of date now (maybe someone could update it) but gives some idea of what’s been going on … still going on.

      https://lenathehyena.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave-when-first-we-practice-to-deceive-bbc-scotland-and-the-labour-party/

    343. louis.b.argyll says:

      Sorry I missed Mcturnoff last night, had already turned the telly off.

    344. Famous15 says:

      @Ronnie Anderson

      It’s over a year now and no letters and no mythical detecor vans or other visits.

      I also got a full refund .I made it clear that I was cancelling my TV licence because BBC was biased against Scotland.

    345. frogesque says:

      @ Fran 12.51

      I do realise that what most of Shakespeare wrote is historical fiction – with the emphasis on fiction. One had to be careful what one wrote in Lizzy’s reign, especially post Mary QoS.

      In my mind when I wrote earlier was the line:
      “Out damned spot!” as Lady Macbeth wrings her hands trying to remove the bloodstains. It just seemed appropriate comparison for SLAB and the infighting!

    346. Robert Peffers says:

      @gerry parker says: 19 November, 2015 at 12:37 pm:

      “Aye Ian, when I hear “Question number 3, Willie Rennie”

      I just stop watching FMQ’s

      What a waste of space he is.”

      To be fair, Gerry, Willie doesn’t take up that much space and, anyway, someone has to make the tea.

    347. heedtracker says:

      Gary Smith and Sarah Smith promotions are merely a BBC fresh attempt to shut down SNP progress next year. It’s text book managerial stuff, unionists failing badly this season, bring in new talents ready for next season.

      That latest Glenn Campbell one year Sturgeon FM anniversary interview for BBC lunchtime news to was a good example of the power struggle between Holyrood and all the crew over at Pacifc Quay, focusing entirely on Cameron, voice over all of Sturgeon, we BBC are in charge of Scotland and don’t you forget it.

    348. Jack Murphy says:

      The BBC are really helpful when it comes to cancelling the TV license:-
      “How do I cancel my Licence?

      You’re moving address —[family moved to Rockall RK1 1AO,19th September 2014]
      I’m moving abroad——[gone to live in the Red Light District,Amsterdam]
      I’m moving into a care home—-[The House of Lords]
      I’m moving to an address that already has a TV Licence—-[gone to live with ma Gran—she’s over 75]
      A TV Licence holder has died [cremation,and the TV licence went with me]
      You don’t watch TV [it’s under the bed]
      I no longer watch TV [the dog chewed it at 6:30pm]

      http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ286

    349. yesindyref2 says:

      Sarah Smith: ““It’s a very exciting opportunity at a time when Scottish affairs are so important to our understanding of the whole of the UK.

      Epic fail. And I’m not even an anti-Sarah Smith person.

    350. louis.b.argyll says:

      All round the world, on all sides, Conservatives are tightening their grip. Stifling freedoms and claiming solidarity for war.

      Fighting / bombing I.S. is effectively OUR right-wing-movers-and-shakers versus similar out of touch wannabe despots.

      Let’s lay out casualty numbers in a graph, explaining that the Paris attacks were inevitable.

      Stop the wars.

    351. Jim McIntosh says:

      O/T – I see our First Minister is being a bit naughty on twitter. Kay Burley tweets that junior doctors in England have voted to strike.

      Nicola tweets: “This is a massive vote for strike in England. NHS Scotland open to junior docs who want to be valued by government”

      Tee hee 🙂 🙂

    352. Proud Cybernat says:

      So now we have the S.S. Broadcasting Corporation. Kinda seems familiar some how.

    353. Petra says:

      Is this what we should be looking forward to? What a line-up …. Murray, Tomkins, Carmichael AND Sarah Smith versus Stewart Maxwell.

      ‘Another imbalanced (BBC) ‘debate’ – Scotland 2015′

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_20p3F3Jk_U

      http://caltonjock.com/2014/11/05/bbc-scotland-and-labour-party-in-scotland-network-powerful-politically-corrupt-and-biased-shameful-abuse-of-the-scottish-electorate/

      The BBC and the 2015 General Election – it’s ‘at it’ again.

      https://lenathehyena.wordpress.com/2014/11/16/the-bbc-and-the-2015-general-election-its-at-it-again/

      ‘’A friend of Wendy’s is Sarah. That is the Honourable Sarah Smith, daughter of the late John, one-time leader of the Labour Party who also found the invitation north impossible to refuse. Sarah had a lovely wedding not so long ago which she shared with her friends the Alexander twins and their father who married Sarah (as minister officiating not, well you know). Other guests included the great and the good (it’s a phrase okay) from the Labour Party. Sarah’s sister is the daughter-in-law of the Right Honourable the Lord George Robertson of Port Ellen, KT, GCMG, FRSA, FRSE, PC and of the Labour Party. Do you think he says that every time he answers the phone? Sarah’s political shows on BBC Scotland have not been well-received but that’s no reason for her not to keep trying. Go Sarah go.’’

      https://lenathehyena.wordpress.com/2014/08/29/oh-what-a-tangled-web-we-weave-when-first-we-practice-to-deceive-bbc-scotland-and-the-labour-party/

    354. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fran says: 19 November, 2015 at 12:51 pm:

      “Lady MacBeth was nothing like Slab, she fed the poor from her own kitchen.

      Remember Shakespeare’s MacBeth was early English propaganda, they weren’t the evil couple as portrayed.”

      Believe me that history propaganda goes way back to the very start of written History of Britain. Roman Britain was only the southern and eastern area of Britain but one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise.

      Depending upon which Roman records you read you will find biased reporting of historic events. It seems the Roman Leaders viewed a posting to Britain as a way to forward their political careers back in Rome. The historic propaganda starts there.

      The Venerable Bede, a.k.a, “Saint Bede”, (672AD – 26 May 735), an English monk at the monastery of Saint Peter at Monkwearmouth and its companion monastery, Saint Paul’s, in modern Jarrow, County Durham, both of which were then in the Kingdom of Northumbria.

      Bede is well known as an author and scholar, and his most famous work, Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum (The Ecclesiastical History of the English People) gained him the title “The Father of English History”.

      Bede was an accomplished master of English propaganda. Willie Shakespeare was really just a Johnny come lately in that department. The south East Establishment has been at it since ever there was written history. This, of course all accelerated with the subsequent introductions of the printing press, telephone, radio, television and of course the internet.

    355. heedtracker says:

      Petra, the main issue facing BBC vote SLab Scotland is electoral demographics. They think they can be the Scottish King makers, who becomes FM is up to them, they can make SNP Scots.gov look so bad, they’re finished etc BUT at least half of Scotland either don’t believe their propaganda or don’t watch their awful progs anyway.

      And it’s that 50+ % that the BBC can’t reach that makes for SNP electoral majorities.

      What BBC are really waiting for, is the Smith Commision staggering fraud to kick in, Scottish perpetual decline economically continues, ensuring 70’s grade socio economic problems, England and the south east continue to boom as usual and bish bosh, SNP are finished 2020.

      Then those two Smith shills will move back to London, triumphant, having saved the UKOK fit to reign over us forever. The queen will purr, Pacifc quay SLab placeman will breath easy again, DR will be hysterical with theIr Vow grade ecstasy , whoever gets Dugdale’s job will be merciful to us, at first.

      But I could be wrong.

    356. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Please help settle a (so far, civilised) argument –

      Is there any evidence that ‘Outlander’ was kept off UK telly because of indyref, or is this just typical urban-legend-type bawbaggery by frothing cybernats?

    357. Robert Peffers says:

      @john king says: 19 November, 2015 at 1:01 pm:

      ” … the contsant stream of disparaging attitudes coming out of UK programmes is relentless and this constant “attack is the best defence” attitude of theirs where the accuse us of a permanet state of “greavance” should be taken and shoved right back down their throats,”

      Personally, John, I much prefer one, or other, of their other human orifices. Mind you each such has its own merits.

    358. ahundredthidiot says:

      There was a wee mention earlier about how Scotland is a target for terrorism, I disagree, I don’t think Scotland is or has ever been a target because it simply isn’t sexy enough on a global scale. Manchester maybe, London and Euro capitals definitely.

      And before anyone screams Glasgow Airport at me! That was NOT a planned attack, it was a reaction to a tightening net after their planned bombs in London failed to go off and subsequent gathering of data from, not least, mobile phones.

      Now, I am not suggesting we kick back and play ignorant, it is best to have your wits about you, but perspective is needed.

    359. ahundredthidiot says:

      wikileaks for Outlander

    360. heedtracker says:

      Its still a shock to even consider that the most powerful political party besides the SNP in Scotland, is the BBC.

      Only in strange sneaky creepy old UK.

    361. Ruby says:

      Ian Brotherhood says:
      19 November, 2015 at 2:26 pm
      Please help settle a (so far, civilised) argument –

      Is there any evidence that ‘Outlander’ was kept off UK telly because of indyref, or is this just typical urban-legend-type bawbaggery by frothing cybernats?

      Ruby replies
      Interesting question! Merits further research.

      The email, sent from Sony vice president Keith Weaver to chief executive Michael Lynton and other senior Sony figures, said: “From a SPE [Sony Pictures Entertainment] perspective, your meeting with Prime Minister Cameron on Monday will likely focus on our overall investment in the UK – with special emphasis on the jobs created by [ITV show] TOMMY COOPER , the importance of OUTLANDER (i.e., particularly vis-à-vis the political issues in the UK as Scotland contemplates detachment this Fall).”

      The Conservatives said they are not commenting on the leaked documents.

      http://tinyurl.com/onsya8r

      ‘Detachment’ interesting term.

      I have a question for you re the above photo. Does the fact that not all the Labour politicians have a ‘je suis Charlie’ card have any great significance or did their photocopier run out of ink.
      Should the card that the two guys in the front row are sharing not say ‘Nous sommes Charlies’

      Perhaps in light in recent poll findings Kezia’s should read ‘Je Suis Kezia’

      It’s a brill photo even someone with very little knowledge of photoshop could make it into a work of art.

    362. mr thms says:

      #Ian Brotherhood 2.26pm

      Well I got fed up waiting for it to appear on network television and bought the first series in HMV at the weekend.

      I have watched the first two episodes and it is is well made. Expect lots of violence, gore, nudity and misogyny.

      Was it banned?

      http://www.scotsman.com/lifestyle/culture/tv-radio/david-cameron-met-sony-over-outlander-uk-release-1-3747339

      It was also ignored by the Scottish Baftas despite the fact that the $62 million dollar production is made in Scotland.

    363. Ruby says:

      Did the Labour Party makes these ‘Je Suis Charlie’ cards using taxpayer funded photocopier ink?

      Making a black background uses up a lot of printer ink and costs us taxpayers a lot of money. It’s no wonder nobody votes for them and why half of the don’t have a charlie card and the little & large in the front row have to share one.

      These printer cartridges cost a bomb! Just think what a family on tax credits could have done with all that money!

    364. Petra says:

      @ heedtracker says at 2:26 pm …… ”What BBC are really waiting for, is the Smith Commision staggering fraud to kick in, Scottish perpetual decline economically continues, ensuring 70’s grade socio economic problems, England and the south east continue to boom as usual and bish bosh, SNP are finished 2020 ….. But I could be wrong.”

      No I think you’re spot on Heedtracker that’s exactly what’s going on and is as plain as the nose on my (our) face.

      They’re a sad wee symbiotically, invidious crew; rallying the troops in a futile attempt to hold up the critically wounded UK wide Labour dinosaur. Fighting for a Corporation that stinks to high heaven from being blatantly biased to covering up for paedophiles. Time’s truly running out for them.

    365. Fred says:

      If we have to have a London luvvy for this BBC post why not glamour-puss Michelle Mone? OK mebbes a bit on the dim side but at least blonde.

    366. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Ian Brotherhood.

      Re: Outlander email.

      Here’s the archived story from The Herald, in April this year.

      https://archive.is/Wu7ke

    367. Petra says:

      @ Ruby @2:41pm ”I have a question for you re the above photo. Does the fact that not all the Labour politicians have a ‘je suis Charlie’ card have any great significance or did their photocopier run out of ink. Should the card that the two guys in the front row are sharing not say ‘Nous sommes Charlies’”

      I like it. It should read ‘Nous sommes un couple du Labour Parti Charlies .’

    368. Ian Brotherhood says:

      re ‘Outlander’ – cheers all. Useful stuff.

      🙂

    369. Petra says:

      @ mr thms says at 2:52 pm ”Well I got fed up waiting for it to appear on network television and bought the first series in HMV at the weekend. I have watched the first two episodes and it is is well made. Expect lots of violence, gore, nudity and misogyny.”

      When you get to the last 2/3 episodes mr thms you’ll feel your blood REALLY boiling and you’ll jump up and run outside, around your garden or up and down the street, birling the Saltire over your head and scream FREEDOM.

      Then you’ll calm down and vote SNP/SNP next year.

    370. Andrew McLean says:

      Petra at 4:30
      You could get Amazon prime free for the first month, but remember and cancel! Just a suggestion!

    371. Ken500 says:

      If Putin hammers Syria oil fields held by Daresh et al. The price of Oil could rise which would benefit the Russian economy. Russia would also get in to produce the Oil as they did before. A win, win for Russia. A loss of influence for the West.

      No wonder Cameron and his mates are jumping up and down. Losing loads in fees, commision and aquiring the Region’s Oil wealth. Putin beat them to it. While the Syrian people starve, live in camps and have to take perilous journey in order to survive. Causing the worse migrant crisis since the 11WW.

    372. jamie vint says:

      Oh dear.How sad. Never mind !

    373. Chic McGregor says:

      Ken.

      I thought that as well. It would on the face of it benefit Russian GDP and I think Putin must be tempted and weighing up consequences.

      However, another likely outcome of such an event would be that the Saudi’s would simply open the taps more and they are allegedly clandestinely funding ISIS. If so it would achieve neither a price hike nor a cessation of funding for ISIS.

      And of course, the Suadi’s are buddies with the UK and US.

      Also noted the look of surprise and horror on Anna Soubry’s face when Mehdi Hasan suggested that bombing ISIS pipelines had only just started prompting Dimbleby to ask him if we should be bombing ISIS pipelines again with some degree of aghastness.

      20:27 in
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b06qc0mj/question-time-19112015

      Makes you wonder if we are back in Big Game mode with the UK and US secretly happy with Suadi alleged funding of ISIS because it both distracts Russia militarily and undermines their economy more than it does the West.

      But the truth probably is that it is such a complicated mess that even the West’s experts in the strategic undergrowth cannot see what a clear advantageous strategy should be.



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