stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


With two hands and a map

Posted on July 16, 2014 by

Scottish Conservatives leader Ruth Davidson, bless her wee heart, is banging once again in today’s Scottish Sun on the drum she’s made her own personal pet issue of the referendum campaign – the BBC.

The Tory chief – who likes to bash the public sector but has spent almost her entire life funded by the taxpayer, first as a Beeb employee, then as a student at a Scottish university and now as an MSP – notes that viewers in Ireland pay £5.50 a month to access the iPlayer, and that the same fate might befall an independent Scotland.

ruthpish

It sounds a reasonable argument, but like so many of the No camp’s assertions it unfortunately falls to pieces under the pressure of reality.

The BBC website notes that iPlayer is only intended for people in the UK, and that qualifying residence is determined by way of a user’s IP address. For those of you who aren’t fully internet-savvy, an “IP address” is sort of the electronic equivalent of a postcode. But it’s rather less accurate than a postcode.

myip

Because an IP address can’t really track YOUR location, but only that of the internet company you use. The above, for example, is what gets returned for our IP address by sites like What’s My ISP?, and readers who’ve been paying attention for the last two years will of course know that Wings Over Scotland is in fact NOT located in Salford (ironically the new home of the BBC), but almost 200 miles away in sunny Bath.

To cut a long and boringly technical story short, the chances of the BBC ever being able to accurately identify whether anyone in the current UK actually lives in England, Scotland or Wales are essentially nil. Broadband companies will continue to operate across the borders, and with a 200-mile-plus margin of error there’s simply no practical way of separating out Scottish customers. Any attempt to do so would inevitably result in the BBC shutting out millions of angry English and Welsh viewers.

We’re sure that an independent Scottish Government would come to a reasonable and sensible arrangement with the BBC to purchase its services legally. Scots want access to the Corporation’s programming and the BBC desperately needs money, so neither side has any interest in any other outcome.

But in the worst-case scenario, there’s simply no chance that the BBC could block iPlayer access from Scotland even if it wanted to. Maybe someone who understands computers could explain that to Ruth Davidson.

.

EDIT 14.44: It should, of course, also be noted that Scotland, unlike Ireland, is already part-owner of the iPlayer, rendering the comparison even more inaccurate.

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    1. 16 07 14 12:01

      With two hands and a map | Scottish Independence News

    309 to “With two hands and a map”

    1. Alan G says:

      Not to mention the existence of tools to make your browser say you are somewhere other than your location…

    2. john j says:

      I don’t understand the process any more than Ruth Davidson but I know that a friend of mine who lives in Paris accesses I-Player free with no problem at all.

    3. Teechur says:

      Also, anyone else spotted that £5.50 a month is half what it costs now? So perhaps a new slogan might be: Vote Yes for 50% discount on the BBC Licence Fee!

    4. Gary says:

      Why would I have to pay separately for something that comes with my internet and tv package? She thinks we’re all fools.

    5. Gizzit says:

      Not to be negative, but there are recent stories about the possible encryption of iPlayer – to prevent those without valid licenses accessing it for free.

      There are denials about this signalling a move to a subscription funding replacement for the current licensing model – but even so, if they do encrypt the application, and use (say) a valid license code for “free” access…that would make things more complicated.

    6. Funny, WhatsMyIP thinks I’m in London and not in Newton Mearns! 🙂

      I guess over time the ISPs might start setting up proper Scottish subsidiaries (creating more jobs in Scotland in the process), and it will eventually get easier to recognise Scottish IPs. However, for the foreseeable future you’re definitely right.

    7. galamcennalath says:

      I changed ISP recently, but my old fixed IP address always put me in London!

      Post-yes-win it is essential the BBC stop pouring propaganda into Scotland. This has to be done long before Independence Day. I hope the Scottish Government insists on immediate management changes soon after the 18th.

      By Independence Day a totally new SBS has to be in place. The only BBC output which is relevant from then on will be sports, drama and entertainment. These shows can be purchased I’m certain.

    8. heedtracker says:

      LabConDem Westminster just gave itself very powerful mass surveillance spying law on everyone’s phone and web activity, completely trashing European Court of Justice law that made it illegal in the EU. A fiver for Eastenders or a criminal conviction for not paying BBC licence fee is the least of our worries.

      http://www.dw.de/uk-to-fast-track-controversial-surveillance-bill/a-17785694

    9. TYRAN says:

      She really doesn’t know what she’s on about.

      And she must think everyone’s glued to iPlayer. I’ve never used it.

    10. Gizzit says:

      Link to one of the stories I referred to in my last comment:

      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/10/bbc-encrypt-iplayer-licence-fee-channel-4

    11. Alasdair says:

      Well, apparently I’m in England!! Whatever next, NO INTERNET?!

    12. uilleam_beag says:

      For all her zany politics, Ruth Davidson is not in fact entirely daft, if you ask me. It follows, then, that she knows perfectly well what the genuine situation is (if not, does she not have a team of party advisors to keep her right?), and that would suggest she is just banking on enough members of the public being unclear of how ISPs work to make the bluff worthwhile.

    13. Helena Brown says:

      Crikey Ruth do you have any idea how many people do not pay the BBC anything at all here in the sticks you do not care to call home.
      I scratch my head at folk like Davidson, Lamont and Rennie, they do not think they can run Scotland, so want the big boys in England to do it for them, so why bother standing for the Scottish Parliament? Must be the money.

    14. Grouse Beater says:

      A nasty piece of retribution easily shot down. I wonder what comes next in the ‘How To Punish Scotland’ manual.

      Most ascerbic comment in the piece? Ruth Davidson an eternal employee of public money.

      She and those like her should be given a reminder now and again – election day too infrequent to be a discipline.

    15. Camz says:

      IF Scotland ended up with Scottish-specific IP blocks (ranges of IP addresses), and the BBC blocked them from accessing its content, it would be possible.

      It’s not going to happen. Far easier to sell the service, than spend money trying to block the service.

    16. Helena Brown says:

      Gizzit, interesting but I could probably take a bet on there being someone much smarter than I looking for ways to circumvent that happening. The Internet is an interesting place, all sorts of information out there should someone look. I consider that most of our politicians are so behind with the technology that they come up with the most appalling rubbish.

    17. Camz says:

      @uilleam_beag

      I think Ruth and the rest of the Westminster-guided ones have sat down and come up with lists of ‘British Institutions’ and worked out the best way to spin things to the No vote.

      Imagine if the NHS in Scotland were part of the whole thing in England. They would be telling us that the NHS would not be protected after indy (while privatising it on the QT).

    18. Bunter says:

      Scares getting a bit samey and boring. We pay twice as much to the BBC than what we get back so after Indy we will just pay for what we want, like every other country. Looks like state broadcaster doing an interesting Scottish GDP special at 10.15. Do tune in to see what “impartial experts” gives us the numbers.

    19. Quentin Quale says:

      @ Paula Rose. Last night the lovely Paula wrote:
      Now – according to my diary it must be time for the no Eurovision, no Strictly Ballroom, no Dr Who, no Eastenders story.

      Psychic as well, Paula?

    20. Illy says:

      Far easier to talk the Scottish Government into buying the service as a blanket than to worry about what individuals want, yes.

    21. Black Douglas says:

      @Quentin Quale

      Yeah was thinking that too 😀

      Apologies for going O/T so soon but

      I’ve found Anas 🙂

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/referendum-welsh-first-minister-carwyn-3867477

    22. Douglas Gourlay says:

      As teechur said earlier, £66 per year. We get a discount 🙂

    23. galamcennalath says:

      We dive in and start analysing. We show clearly the truth. And, that needs to be done. Relentlessly.

      It’s lies, deceit, fabricated, superficial, and misleading. However, it has served its purpose of producing yet another scary tabloid headline. Mission accomplished. Deed done, next. They no longer care that their nonsense gets debunked.

      The real issue is, day after day, how many DKs and soft NOs have been scared into not shifting to Yes ….. versus …. how many have been sickened by the deceit and moved in disgust to Yes?

      It seems obvious BT believe there tactic works.

      The battle, with debunking arguments to hand, is to make sure as many people as possible hear the truth, face to face.

    24. Not Richard Wilson says:

      Why should we pay anything, we are shareholders after all. Scotland will be due about £13m as our share of BBC Worldwide, or are they going to buy us out.

      Is this going to be a one way street or will the BBC be buying programs from us. If the quality isn’t high to begin with, who’s to blame for that? London based production companies with empty offices in Glasgow, leeching money allocated to Scotland?

      They can keep Fort Apache, Pacific Quay as well, £300m to rent an empty shell for 30 years isn’t good value for money, oh how I wish I was a well off friend of the labour party to get a share of that PFI!!

      Well done Wings Over Scotland for all you’ve done, may you be the first to plant your Saltire on Pacific Quay when Scotland votes YES

    25. John Walsh says:

      I think most of the “Naw” campaign are Can’t Use New Technology Syndrome ( I can’t think of an acronym) people.
      As they still assert an opinion on any subject and think no one notices the discrepancy or incorrect fact. They have surrounded themselves with subservient yes men,so no corrections. They live in a world in their heads with no internet connection , no research and think we the masses will believe the lies without checking. They are finding out they are wrong and don’t like being told so.

    26. Robyn - Quine fae Torry says:

      @Teechur

      That’s what I thought. It doesn’t seem a bad deal to me and you get to choose the bits of the BBC you want. Where can I sign up? £60 or £145?

      I don’t think Ruth has properly thought this through. What’s new from BT though, eh?

    27. schrodingers cat says:

      type UK proxy servers into google

      copy IP address into correct in windows

      watch iplayer

      simples

      you can do this from the moon if you so wish

      cant imagine anyone wanting to though. the bbc is p1sh

    28. tv licences are only needed to watch LIVE tv so if you only watch stuff on i-player which are recorded, you don’t need a valid licence at all. To charge for use of i-player would be a separate thing from the licence.

    29. schrodingers cat says:

      Vote Yes for 50% discount on the BBC Licence Fee!

      nope

      Vote Yes for 100% discount on the BBC Licence Fee!

    30. Craig P says:

      I’d be intrigued to see a breakdown of license-fee penetration. Which part of the UK buys the fewest TV licenses per head of population – London? Northern Ireland? I doubt it is Scotland – we are too law abiding, despite receiving an inferior service.

    31. bookie from hell says:

      £5.50 is 2p a day

      2p or not 2p

    32. schrodingers cat says:

      btw
      if anyone mentions the investment in PQ by the bbc

      point out that the bbc only pay a morgage on the property

      it isnt bought and paid for

    33. Keef says:

      S’funny I access it from Australia using free “xpat” software. The software fools iPlayer into thinking I’m in the UK.

      Ruth is such a negative numptie.

    34. desimond says:

      First of all, why single out iPlayer. Why no mention of “Well of course people in Ireland can watch the BBC for heehaw but hey, its all about the iPlayer, I’m so down with the kids me!”

      2nd of all…..following independence, its goodbye BBC Scotland. Therefore, wont the SCOTTISH Broadcasting Corporation have its own version of iPlayer just like every other channel now has?

      Third of all, does her cash from being in the TA also count as public funding?

    35. Devorgilla says:

      About encryption, I thought the rules were that you only need a licence if you use iPlayer to watch LIVE TV programmes, but not ones already broadcast? I never watch iPlayer live, for the good reason that you can’t get the subtitles up as you can on normal TV.

    36. JLT says:

      I know that it’s not the right thing to say, as not all folk think like me, but to be honest, I couldn’t give a monkeys if I never received the BBC again. The vast majority of programmes on it are junk to be quite frank. I’m sitting here struggling to think of at least one program that I watch on the BBC. The only thing I come up with is the BBC News 24, and they can’t really stop us looking at that. And if they did, I would just go to the BBC website for my news.

      Who’s to say that in an indy-Scotland, that we don’t have a SBC News 24.

    37. Colin says:

      THe Daily Record admitting the no camp was wrong? This must be a first.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/no-campaign-accused-twisting-comments-3864102

    38. HandandShrimp says:

      I think I have used iplayer two or three times. There has to be something worth watching in the first place.

    39. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

      Theres a fundamental question of ownership here too.

      Scotland owns 8.4% of the UKs assets including the BBC, its commercial arm, and the iPlayer.

      If they want to claim sole ownership then they will have to offset the value in debt negotiations OR alternatively grant access based on an agreed funding deal with the Scottish Government.

    40. Bunter says:

      Scotland’s GDP Up 1% and outperforms UK as our economy grows faster.

    41. desimond says:

      @JLT

      We have BBC new24 on in the work here and I occasionally get a good laugh at the subtitles…I swear the person just puts anything in ( or its really bad software)..the other day it had this peach

      Sport now – Vivien Candlelabra has withdrawn from the Tour De France

      It was of course – Alberto Contador

    42. Catherine says:

      For those of us whose ‘broadband’ is powered by steam, iPlayer is kind of irrelevant anyway, as it is too frustrating to try and watch anything.

    43. john king says:

      Apparently Im in Brentford, who knew?
      I married an essex girl (alledgedly)

    44. john king says:

      Or allegedly even 🙁

    45. desimond says:

      @JLT

      Just now on BBC24 – Scotland Means Business guy (Graham someone) just put the BBC reporters gas in a peep by turning his “yeah but what about no currency union” teaser on its head and telling him “oh that’s political, business wise it wont be a problem for Scotland businesses using Sterling’…magic!

    46. Martin says:

      As already pointed out, there are quick ways round it. The internet also tends to have the BBC programmes elsewhere too. The BBC is pretty poor now anyway. Occasionally it gets a decent drama, and geeks like me watch doctor who or Sherlock but its news/ current affairs output is awful stuff. I doubt I’d miss it

    47. Molly says:

      I think we’re going about this the wrong way. If Ruth Davidson wants to start a campaign to abolish the TV license and only subscribe to I player , where do we sign?

      Come on Ruth, put your money where your mouth is. If you can take time to talk to the papers, you can surely set up a campaign.

      Ruth is all for the free market, competition , well let’s see Ruth if people really do want to continue paying the TV license? In fact , let’s in the name of togetherness ask the whole of the UK.

      In fact , I might just email Downing Street and ask if David Cameron supports Ruth Davidsons plans to campaign across the UK , to abolish the license fee for the BBC?

      I’ve got this right now Ruth , this is how it works right? You come up with a piece of nonsense, spin it, get the press to publish it and before you know , the story takes on a completely different slant.

      My we are learning so much in this Referendum

    48. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Waaaagh….Will I still be able to use the ‘£’ sign on my keyboard ?

      I NEED ANSWERS !

    49. John says:

      The one thing I would be looking to pursue, regardless of the result of the referendum, would be the total annihilation of the BBC. If there is one thing we can take from the referendum process it is that the BBC is a London propaganda machine, NOT a public service broadcaster. And it has GOT to go.

    50. No no no...yes says:

      Ruth the untruth would be better sorting our her UK cabinet colleagues instead of talking nonsense:

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-priti-patel-sparks-1471711

      The language of this Daily Record is similarly anti-BT to the one about Juncker. Are some of the journalists realising that they should remain true to their profession?

    51. Proud Cybernat says:

      Come on now, Rev. You’re being much too sensible here. Why deprive Project Fear of their wee scare story?

      Isn’t that the great thing about such a long campaign–we become completely anaesthetised to their lies.

    52. Bunter says:

      Aye, the Scotland means business guy was great. I notice that on the BBC website that they are running with a 13000 more unemployed stat, but I reckon that’s the school leavers entering the market. They also have decided to downplay that there are 12000 more in employment. Oh well all in all a good day for Scotland’s economic numbers.

    53. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Perhaps Ruth actually knows about the plans hinted at in the anti-porn legislation being brought to fruition. The only way to do that would be to put up some kind of firewall barriers around the rUK so the only digital traffic in and out would be via them. I’m sure if they asked China, North Korea, Russia or any other state with a history in that area they’d get all the advice they need to impose that kind of embargo on iPlayer or any other web output from the rUK.

    54. Vestas says:

      Unfortunately Rev you’ve got this one wrong.

      Your IP address will form part of a block allocated to your ISP* from the Regional Internet Registry (RIR), which is in this case Réseaux IP Européens Network Coordination Centre (RIPE).

      It is perfectly possible for your ISP to create subnets based on geographical location should they wish to do so and in fact Sky, BT and Virgin do exactly this.

      In fact in the case of Virgin you can sometimes tell what area of a city an IP address is currently serving. For both Sky and BT you can usually tell the county at least, and usually the city.

      The primary purpose of this is for engineering reasons which are beynd the scope of this discussion but it would be trivial to document the IP ranges and pass them to the BBC. This in fact already happens to a certain extent anyway.

      Personally I can’t see a problem with paying £5.50/month because you’d already have saved £145.50/year by not paying the TV tax 🙂

      *in this context your ISP is known as a “Local Internet Registry (LIR)”

    55. Les Wilson says:

      kendomacaroonbar says:

      I know all this shite DOES drive you, and all of the rest of us nuts.

      All they have is constant negative drivel. Roll on the 19th, however, we will get it right up to INDEPENDENCE DAY, however, it will just be a rehash of what we have had up to now! WHO GIVES A TOSSER WHAT THEY SAY!
      It is going to happen anyway.

    56. macart763m says:

      @Scott Minto

      Spot on. 🙂

      One word for Ms Davidson.

      Negotiation.

    57. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2014-07-15a.704.0 Scots and Welsh MP’s voted No to all new improved mass UK.gov public surveillance power but check out the long list of Scottish Labour MP’s voting for it, barring Eric Joyce MP. Is it reasonable to expect say Al-Qaeda to simply not go online.

      Any report/info in state propaganda machine? Nothing

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/scotland/

    58. Vestas says:

      Addition to above post :

      The BBC already get details of all UK ISPs IP block allocations because it is required to access the iPlayer CDN boxes.

      When ISPs used to get new IP address allocations* there was frequently a delay between those addresses going into use & the BBC updating their access control lists (ACLs) on the CDN boxes. You’d see a load of people whinging on forums for a couple of weeks then it’d be sorted.

      The national lottery website is just the same – it requires ISPs to notify them of IP ranges in use within the UK.

      *no more IPv4 allocations going to happen in the RIPE area as they are all now delegated to LIRs.

    59. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Project Beeb @ £5.50 a month? A bargain for those who like that kind of thing.

    60. Franariod says:

      I would save £5 a month since Im in a dead zone and cant get a reception from terrestrial or satellite tv. I have unlimited broad band service so I must pay my “TV” licence. Im going to save £70 a year already with my Yes vote. So Ruthie, thats no a bad thing

    61. Ken500 says:

      EU governments are not going on-line. Germany are using typewriters.

    62. heedtracker says:

      It’s not the BBC that investigates and prosecutes non licence fee payers anyway. It’s private security co’s, can’t mind name of. So add juicy prosecution fees/profit, UK.gov sells online surveillance data and you got yourself a tasty business model, with a big market, clear convictions, busy lawyers, busy courts, good times. Rule Britannia

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23792388

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/10256679/TV-licence-offences-account-for-one-in-ten-UK-court-cases.html

    63. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      How much is a proxy service per month?

      Even cheaper than paying the Beeeb?

    64. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      heedtracker

      Is it Crapita?

    65. cal says:

      Danny Alexander has already conceeded that Scotland could continue to receive the BBC and use the national lottery. Truly the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. Or do they just have two right hands/wings? There was an article in the Guardian on 21/06/2014. I have a printed copy of it. Don’t have the full address but it begins with:

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/19/bbc-share-with-independent-scotland

      N.B. This is not an archived link. Not sure how to do that. Perhaps one of you kind Wingers could sort that for me. This is a good article to use on the doorsteps when this issue comes up.

    66. Jim says:

      Of course she has thought it through, she may not be a great politician but I am sure she is quite clever.
      The thing is, the lie has been printed, her job was completed successfully.
      She knows that with that seed of doubt planted it will take a lot of explaining to undo this because most people are not tech savvy so wont be able to discern how or why this is bullshit propagated by the Tories!

    67. RogueCoder says:

      Picking up on Scott Minto’s point about Scotland’s share if the BBC, it would be a relatively simple technical project to license and rebrand iPlayer for a new Scottish public broadcaster. The BBC spent an outrageous sum of money developing it (I forget how much exactly but I think in the region of £120m) particularly with respect to the DRM components.

      Re: vest as point about IP block allocations, he’s techniy correct and new subnetw could be created – but that’s an enormous amount of somewhat risky work and the IP4 pool is dry. It’s not something that would happen overnight and would likely take years to implement – but it’s not something that ISPs would do just for content providers like the beeb.

    68. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Herald doing a fine job of playing down yesterday’s Better Together Juncker blunder.

      O/T The betting odds manipulation is having the effect of making votes on YES incredibly generous.
      Ladbrokes are now offering 9/2 a YES vote and 10/1 for YES at over 55% of the vote

      Get on

    69. clochoderic says:

      Speaking of the BBC iplayer, one use it could be put to is to watch “The Glasgow Girls,” a drama about the kids in Drumchapel who fought the Home Office to stop the dawn raids by the immigration authorities on their school friends.

      The villain of the piece is none other than the laughable Jack McConnel, gleefully hammed up by Greg Hemphill to look like an utter diddy, falling over himself to attach himself to a popular cause while doing absolutely nothing to help.

      A surprising wee gem of a film by BBC Scotland.

    70. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Clochoderic… are you sure he was hammed up?

      He’s probably enough of a ham on his own without any help from Greg.

    71. bjsalba says:

      Has anyone noticed the Scottish Sun is starting to hedge its Stance on Independence bets a little?

      How long have they been explicitly attributing their gloom and doom prophesies to the Tory party in the headline?

      Or have I just not noticed it before?

    72. heedtracker says:

      @ Bugger (the Panda), it is. wiki says Capita earning £1.5 billion with the 15 year BBC licence fee evader catching contract they were awarded in 2012.

      http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom

      So if you’re watching BBC garbage on your ipad without a licence, knock knock guess who, with out the knock knock court summons, criminal record, stingy fine etc
      Likes of Jacky Bird and Sweaty Brewer don’t work for nothing but what’s the odds Capita don’t have a Lord and or Baroness on the board and maybe an ex UK.gov minister cum knight or two.

    73. Jim says:

      As for Carwyn Jones, I have no affinity with the Welsh, not because I dislike them but I am indifferent to them.
      Therefore I care little what Carwyn Jones says, how he pleads anymore than I care what Eddie Izzard or David Bowie thinks.

    74. big jock says:

      By that reasoning are we going to have to pay for the digital BBC radio broadcasts. Is your radio going to have a slot to pay when you tune into radio 4!

    75. turnip_ghost says:

      On my phone so haven’t read all the comments but…since we are paying more than gets spent in Scotland, and we could immediately save millions after a Indy, wouldn’t it just be as sensible to put that £5 on to any new licence fee and everybody has access to it?

    76. David Wardrope says:

      It is the measure of the No campaign when faced with the possibility of the people of Scotland deciding on whether we should have the ability to govern our own affairs, make our own social, economical and political decisions, they argue about catch up telly. Quite angering really.

    77. Gordon Hay says:

      This is odd, but the site quoted in the article says I’m in Woking, but this site

      https://ipdb.at/

      gets it almost bang on, with a map showing my location (in Livingston) within 500 yards.

      Of course it doesn’t change Stu’s point, the Beeb aren’t going to turn several million customers away to suit a vindictive rUK agenda.

    78. Fiona says:

      @BtP

      It is Capita

      Some information at the bottom of this post

      http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=53978586

    79. ronnie anderson says:

      Rev the only arrangement I personaly would like to see with the Bbc is pack your bags, its now the Scottish Broadcasting Service.

    80. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Fiona

      As I said, Crapita.

    81. Dan Huil says:

      A Brief History of WoS.
      According to the laws of Quantum Physics a single electron can be in two places at the same time. Just like me and my IP!
      Whaur’s yer Stephen Hawkings noo!

    82. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Gordon Hay

      Using your link I am in York and according to the Rev link I am in London!

    83. elaine mullen says:

      Not exactly accurate.It says I live in London but I’m actually in the Scottish Borders.

    84. Fiona says:

      I am in Manchester and Bolton!

    85. desimond says:

      O/T but this call for a Cameron Games speech
      ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28318236 )
      and BtP’s ‘Crapita’ reference reminded me of Private Eye mentioning David Cameron being very annoyed that he isn’t the front man for the Commonwealth Games. Games protocol dictates he must give way to Head of hosting country and in this respect, to Alex Salmond.

      PS: if you think this post is shite, you dont want to see whats going in the Games Village at present!

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-28325306

    86. Steve says:

      O/T Any thoughts on this new astroturf campaign from John Braggins of UK Labour? https://www.letsstaytogether.org.uk/

    87. Harry Scott says:

      Nah, IP registration info is based at the ISP server location but that’s not sloppy implementation, it’s purely down to the fact that there is currently no reason to make it more accurate. Anyone tracking spam or dodgy traffic only has a need to trace it to your ISP, not your house, (thank goodness). The BBC doesn’t look up each IP when they connect anyway, it has a database of IP ranges which it checks against, similar to a spam blacklist.

      For many reasons, it is very important that the IP country of origin is correct and the traffic source nation can be distinguished. After Indy there will be a need for ISP’s to distinguish between Scottish and RUK web users, they don’t have to change the IP registration info or their gateway servers physical location to do this, they merely need to set aside distinct ranges for users on either side of the border. They can also share this info with the BBC and it would not be difficult at all to do.

      I don’t think Iplayer will be a paid for service in IScotland, but not for that reason. If Scottish viewers pay licence fees and there is cross funding and content/ production sharing between SBC and the BBC, then Iplayer will surely be part of that deal. That would be a much more stable and sure revenue stream than individual subscriptions, it’s also much easier to handle distribution deals for bought-in content that way, because your audience for Broadcast and Online distribution is treated as one group. If the BBC insisted that people subscribe, it would be more costly to implement and they would get a much lower subscription rate. It’s an increasingly crowded market with Netflix, Sky, Amazon etc, and it’s hard to get people to sign up to multiple subscription packages. Many viewers would either not be bothered or would prefer to get the content they want for free via proxy or Bit torrent etc. It also means you have to set up sales, support and customer service offices etc, and you they would also have to spend much more money chasing piracy.

      Essentially the BBC is comfortable with being centrally funded through a licence fee, that’s how it works best and that’s the solution they should be looking at. It would be easier and much more cost effective to demand £10 per year from each Scottish licence fee to pay for Iplayer than to try to sell £5 per month subscriptions to Scottish households.

    88. heedtracker says:

      Licence fee enforcer CEO Capita info wiki says “Pindar himself has attracted criticism for complaining about being called a ‘fat cat’, despite receiving a £770,000 per annum salary and driving around in an Aston Martin DB9.” but he may have jacked.

    89. desimond says:

      @Steve

      Let’s, let’s stay together
      Lovin’ you whether, whether
      Times are good or bad, happy or sad

      I think even the brilliant Rev. Al Green would say No Thanks to that BT offer!

    90. heedtracker says:

      Capita gets showered in UK.gov billions and wiki says “Capita manages the Criminal Records Bureau for the Home Office” Handy.

    91. G H Graham says:

      The annual cost of a colour TV license is £145.50 or £12.13 per month. And just like murder or bank robbery, it is a criminal offence to watch live TV broadcasts on a receiver without a TV license.

      Some of that money has been used to pay the salaries & fees of famous paedophiles such as Jimmy Saville, Stuart Hall, Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, Jonathan King etc. Those are the ones we know of. The total number of criminals still working at the BBC, is anyone’s guess.

      Now, an investigation has commenced into the possible existence of a paedophile ring & a cover up, right inside the heart of Westminster. Meanwhile some, perhaps many, are still nobbing young, vulnerable kids to slake their thirst for immoral & criminal gratification.

      If this is the sort of corrupt British Establishment you want to represent you, vote NO in September & tick a box next to an MP’s name at the next general election. If you want to continue to receive their propaganda right into your living room, remain silent, do nothing except continue to pay the license fee.

      The MP’s name by the way, doesn’t really matter. What matters is the system that enables these benefit scroungers, criminals & cheats to milk your taxes in order to fund a lavish lifestyle of self interest, greed & corruption.

      And if you comply, the British State (Monarchy, Westminster, Whitehall & the political elite) will show you their appreciation by inviting you to demonise poor people, wave off our armed forces before they travel to deserts to kill brown people in countries holiday makers avoid & encourage you to restrain your demand for a living wage to help fund London.

      The alternative to all of this is indeed uncertain. But when one outcome of a risk is already as grim as this, I’ll take my chances with a YES every single time.

    92. Proud Cybernat says:

      Just some info for those planning to join the anti-bias demo at BBC Pacific Quay on Sunday 27th July.

      The Commonwealth Games Marathon will be running that day and so a lot of roads in the City Centre and Southside will be closed for the duration. Men’s event starts at 9:00am, women’s at 9:30am. Should hopefully be all over just after lunchtime and things back to normal but just thought you should all be made aware.

    93. Mark says:

      Many people in the Republic of Ireland can watch BBC on their TVs for free as the signals reach Ireland from across the border with Northern Ireland or across the Irish Sea from Britain. Is Ruth Davidson aware of this?

    94. Vestas says:

      @ RogueCoder

      “Re: vest as point about IP block allocations, he’s techniy correct and new subnetw could be created – but that’s an enormous amount of somewhat risky work and the IP4 pool is dry. It’s not something that would happen overnight and would likely take years to implement – but it’s not something that ISPs would do just for content providers like the beeb.”

      They already do supply location information for “content providers” – BBC, C4, ITV, national lottery, ordnance survey (used to anyway) all get notification of which IP blocks (these ARE subnets) are in use exclusively within the UK.

      There is no “risky work” and the IPv4 pool being exhausted has nothing to do with it.

      You will in fact find that due to the way BT’s 21CN works that all BT-based customers (that is everyone bar Sky, TalkTalk, Virgin) already go through regional gateways and on BT Broadband the IP address lease forms part of that regional pool.

      Sky also organise their network in a similar manner – with the possible exception of the static IPv4 addresses they started offering recently.

      On Virgin you can do a tracert and you’ll see the UBR reverse-IP DNS name which frequently details city & often top level postcode.

      tl;dr its utterly trivial to document the IP address ranges & which areas they serve. The major ISPs already have this data available, they’d just have to publish it.

    95. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/nov/19/capita-outsourcing-government-spending-money

      Near invisible Capita ceo trousered £110 million 4 years ago. If you do get nicked for no licence fee, you make a little more profit for some very rich chaps.

    96. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Why would anybody watch the BBC anyway, when we have the Rev to watch it for us?

    97. ronnie anderson says:

      Bbc Radio/Tv language programmes to teach English across the World & free Bbc news that we contribute for. I dont need English language lessons ( i do need a spell checker )I dont need to pay for British Propaganda as & always was the Bbc.

    98. Morag says:

      Gordon, that is weird. Stu’s site puts me in Edinburgh, which is as correct as it’s likely to get (it’s my work computer and it’s a big biotech network). The one you linked to has the biotech network correct, with the word “Scottish” pretty prominent – and then the map places it half-way up a hill just north of Skipton, in Yorkshire.

    99. Dan Huil says:

      Classical music lovers can download up to nine current CDs for free from Netherlands’ Radio 4. Also many free downloads of concert performances – sight and sound. High bit-rate quality too.

    100. Mark says:

      Meanwhile on the internet: http://www.tvcatchup.com

    101. Vestas says:

      @ Steve

      letsstaytogether.org.uk is registered to a company called :

      Think Limited
      55 DEGREES NORTH
      PILGRIM STREET
      NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE
      NE1 6BF

      Which apparently does :

      62011 – Ready-made interactive leisure and entertainment software development
      62020 – Information technology consultancy activities

      Registered the domain 16 May 2014.

    102. Vestas says:

      Think Limited appears to be :

      http://www.think.eu/

      Make your own minds up, looks like astroturfing to me.

    103. James L. Turbert (JLT) says:

      Hi Desimond.

      To be honest, I really like BBC News 24. I love the idea that I can catch up with World Events in a 15 minute period. It was one of the best things that BBC ever did. As to the darker side of what they are doing in the referendum, well …that is what is costing them ‘loyalty’ from a fair percentage of the population.

      I believe that if we win, that the BBC will change the colour of its coat straight away. I think we may find a pretty responsive BBC as it tries too woo Scots into taking on the BBC as it’s main news provider.

      What Ruth Davidson is saying, and as highlighted by the Rev, is literally just more fear mongering. A case of once more ‘what you can’t have’ (a bit like George Osborne with ‘You can’t use the pound’). To be honest, it’s a poor argument from Ruth, but whether this is just a shot in from BT due to the fact that they had a bad day yesterday in the media, that it has come down to, any form of argument will do.

    104. Wings Over Reality says:

      Stealing content is cool if you can get away with it, yeah? Yeah.

    105. seanair says:

      O/T, but at PMQs Charles Kennedy has just misrepresented Mr. Juncker on the issue of belonging to the EU, agreed with of course by the Chief Toff and roared on by all the non-SNP MPs.
      No apologies there.

    106. Vestas says:

      @ Mark

      You’ll find that TV Catchup only works from UK IP addresses. Were it otherwise they would have been shut down long ago….

    107. Bunter says:

      Looks like UK Gov are running with the misrepresentation of Junckers statement at PMQ’s today. This is serious stuff and the BBC should not be able to get away with running with this lie.

      Think a letter or some serious statement is required from the Scot Gov and EU.

    108. Ian says:

      I live in the IoM which is not part of the UK or even the EU yet there is an agreement with the UK that provides me with access to BBC services as long as I pay the licence fee.

      Why would it have to different for an independent Scotland?

      Would the BBC turn away income? As a licence payer, would I be happy for them to do so?

      The problem with the BT people is that they don’t seem to have the capacity to think things through. They are blinded by their dogma and every time they think there’s an opportunity they end up with egg on their face.

      What’s with La JoLa. How did she get where she is?

    109. heedtracker says:

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public?activity-stream=comments
      Whats my ISP says my Slovene girlfriend Prof Tomkins is actually on the Moon now, plus his total lol overkill on Slovenia google info. Does Whats my ISP say how close the nearest looney bin is to Glasgow uni?

    110. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Slightly O/T (but it was on the BBC News).

      During PMQ’s, prompted by a question from Charlie Kennedy, Cameron restated the BT take on Junckers “5 years” scenario, saying it would be difficult and so on for Scotland to get in.

      Has nobody told him what we all know, that Scotland would not be a “candidate country” from “outside the EU”, having to wait 5 years before applying for membership?

      Either he needs new advisors – or he is, with full knowledge of the facts, consciously lying to bolster the BT campaign.

      We need to GET RID!

    111. Dan Huil says:

      Westminster [PMQs] continues to lie to the people of Scotland. The British nationalist media continues its dirty work.

    112. Steve says:

      @Vestas

      No, that is the internet provider for them. Then address is 63-64, Margaret Street, London W1W 8SW which is
      BBM Campaigns. This is run by John Braggins who was Tony Blairs ex campaign manager.

    113. Bunter says:

      The unionists all know what Junckers spokeswoman clarified last night. They are continuing to lie about this because they can, and are in complete control of the media so can get away with it.

      There is no longer any doubt that our whole country is in the midst of a worrying propaganda operation to defend the British state.

    114. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      I wonder what the bit in the image chosen for this particular article regarding changing your isp is all about?
      Hence my earlier OTT reference that one way such a restriction might be enforced would be through draconian measures meant to ensure that no-one outwith the UK could use a proxy within it and thus persuade iPlayer not to charge.

    115. Nana Smith says:

      My neighbour is really angry about this Juncker stuff being peddled by Cameron and the media, plus all the other rubbish they are getting away with.

      She is asking when the hell the YES campaign are going to get stuck in. She is questioning what exactly they are doing with the donations.

    116. caz-m says:

      Charles Kennedy has just put the final nail in his own coffin at PMQs, the smirkin, lying bastard just tried to stick the knife into the people of Scotland.

      He told to the House that Scotland would need to wait five years for EU entry, then sat down with a smirk on his face and awaited the approval of David Cameron, as if to say “did I do well boss?”.

      Scumbag.

    117. Jeannie says:

      I really used to like Charles Kennedy too. But that’s just not on. He’s letting Scotland down badly. They say all political careers end in failure – looks to me like Charlie’s is at the end.

    118. cirsium says:

      @Steve, Vestas

      So, who has commissioned John Braggins and BBM Campaigns to run the Let’s Stay Together campaign?

    119. HandandShrimp says:

      Was Charles under the counter last night and missed Juncker’s clarification? It seems bizarre that he would run with the Better Together line when even the Beeb has corrected the story.

      Talk about being out the loop.

    120. James L. Turbert (JLT) says:

      Yep, not happy with Charles Kennedy. Actually thought he was one of the better Scottish politicians down there. Disappointing to say the least.

    121. crisiscult says:

      Personally I haven’t paid for the BBC for a year now and tell as many people as I can that a licence is not necessary for those that don’t watch broadcast TV as it’s broadcast. If Scotland votes no I will continue not to pay. If we vote yes, then I might contribute to a Scottish broadcaster, or would be willing to pay for BBC content if their quality was high enough.

      Would you pay a tax to the EU for them to ram propaganda down your throat and prevent you having a national broadcaster? Oh, are any of the ‘devo offers of more powers’ from Lib/Con/Lab including devolving broadcasting?

    122. Marker Post says:

      I’ve often thought that if BBC was pay-per-view, then it would go out of business pretty damned quickly.

      Let’s face it, if you had to explicitly make a decision, each time you sit down in front of the telly or the computer, to send 1 or 2 quid to watch a BBC programme, would you do it?

    123. Geoff Huijer says:

      You would have to strap me into a chair and pin my eyelids up a la Clockwork Orange to get me to watch the BBC.

      I could not care less if they disappeared off the face of the earth; actually I would welcome that!

      They are an absolute disgrace as they try to subvert the democratic process with their selective reporting, misinformation and downright lies.

    124. Jim says:

      Has Charles been at the bottle again?
      Juncker has already stated he was not talking about Scotland:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28311938

    125. Papadox says:

      Looks like Charles Kennedy is playing for a wee seat in the House of Lords.

    126. Vestas says:

      @ Steve :

      Think aren’t a registrar so they aren’t the “internet provider” for them & nor may they act as an “agent” for a third party registrant.

      Therefore they are the original registrant or the domain is breaking Nominet rules & should be suspended.

      Domain name:
      letsstaytogether.org.uk

      Registrant:
      Think Limited

      Registrant type:
      Other UK Entity (e.g. clubs, associations, many universities)

      Registrant’s address:
      55 Degrees North
      Pilgrim Street
      Newcastle upon Tyne
      Tyne and Wear
      NE1 6BF
      United Kingdom

      Data validation:
      Registrant contact details validated by Nominet on 11-Jul-2014

      Registrar:
      TUCOWS Inc t/a TUCOWS [Tag = TUCOWS-CA]
      URL: http://www.tucowsdomains.com

      Relevant dates:
      Registered on: 16-May-2014
      Expiry date: 16-May-2016
      Last updated: 11-Jul-2014

      Registration status:
      Registered until expiry date.

      Name servers:
      ns1.thinkco.com
      ns2.thinkco.com
      ns3.thinkco.com
      ns4.thinkco.com

    127. big jock says:

      I wouldn’t worry too much about this latest episode. No one is paying any attention in the general population. Most people don’t even react to the Europe issue. It’s been done to death and people are now seeing it a white noise. I think Yes are correct just to let them carry on. By entering a debate they can’t actually disprove Yes would be playing into their hands. As the UK government wont ask for clarity from Europe deliberately so thay can create uncertainty. The majority of people in Scotland know its a red herring and should be ignored.

    128. Clootie says:

      This is fun

      My IP address is London?
      I live 30 miles North of Aberdeen.

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rev Stuart. I am of the opinion that, no matter the subject, no one outside her party tells Ms Davidson anything. The lady, or whatever other designation she prefers, seems inclined to the mantra of, “Ruthie knows best, just do as I tell you”.

    130. Steve says:

      @Vestas Think Limited are a digital agency i.e web designers http://www.think.eu They have designed this site for letsstaytogether.org.uk. The registration is all above board.

    131. Jim Duthie says:

      Re. Kennedy and Cameron repeating the lie about Juncker. I understood that if a MP or a Minister misleads Parliament they are guilty of serious misconduct. In the case of Ministers, convention dictates that they resign or be sacked. Grateful if aomeone with greater knowledge than I would confirm or rebut.

    132. Nigel says:

      The really annoying thing about this is Ruth got her headline (right or wrong) and that is what too many will read and take as gospel when passing the paper stands in super market entrances…

      As for the BBC – don’t watch it – gave up on TV years’ ago. Wings is so much more engaging!

      http://nairnyes.wordpress.com/

    133. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      HandandShrimp

      Did you see the bit at week-end with Andrew Neil.

      Charlie looked rough, very rough.

    134. Training Day says:

      Kennedy’s intervention at PMQs was an utter disgrace. A scabrous lie told for the approval of his Tory masters.

      Let’s hear no more talk of ‘decent’ unionist MPs. They don’t exist.

    135. Robert Peffers says:

      @Gizzit says: 16 July, 2014 at 9:49 am

      “Link to one of the stories I referred to in my last comment:
      http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/10/bbc-encrypt-iplayer-licence-fee-channel-4

      Just use a PVR and a BskyB receiver.

    136. Griminish says:

      There is an offence, here in the UK, known as Contempt of Parliament. An MP is guilty of this if he or she deliberately misleads Parliament, and any MP accused of the offence may be suspended or expelled. Since Mr Juncker has already clearly stated that his comments did NOT apply to Scotland, one can only assume that Charles’ actions were deliberate. Time to give Charles a wee holiday, he looked very unwell on Andrew’s show last week.

    137. Mark says:

      @ Vestas “You’ll find that TV Catchup only works from UK IP addresses. Were it otherwise they would have been shut down long ago….”

      You’ll find that IP address blockers or VPNs are able to get around this ‘problem’.

      http://forums.redflagdeals.com/possible-mask-canadian-ip-address-make-look-like-us-one-632723/

    138. mj says:

      I sailed round the world on a boat and used many different wifi. I used a security program which encoded my info and i could choose the country my server was in and watched iplayer everywhere the connection was fast enough or abc online and 6nations rugby from france. it just shows how ruth cant get her head around level headed negotions after a yes. pitty ruth.

    139. desimond says:

      @Training Day at 1:20

      Let’s hear no more talk of ‘decent’ unionist MPs. They don’t exist

      AMEN!!

    140. desimond says:

      There are more people looking at the front page of The Sun and asking “Who is Ruth Davidson?” than watching iPlayer in Scotland.

    141. iain wares says:

      yep – Arbroath but my ip is Poole, that’ll do

    142. Justin Ross says:

      Really getting tired with this BBC nonsense. It typifies the narrow, insular mindset of the No gang…one which doesn’t reflect reality.

      OT BBC Scotland news have just stated that Juncker was NOT referring to Scotland. Maybe they’ll mention it on Reporting Scotland? Maybe they’ll do some proper research before they blurt out No stories in the future?

    143. Vestas says:

      @ Steve :

      Then why aren’t they a registrar?

      Nominet rules changed 4 May 2014 & if you want to act as an agent for a third-party then you need to be on the registrar list.

      Building a website does NOT mean you can obfuscate the Nominet whois database by acting on behalf of a third-party in the registration of a .uk domain. That’s why the rules changed…..

      Someone else obviously thought the same as me – I see Nominet “validated” the registrant contact details a couple of days ago.

      I daresay any little transgressions will be forgiven & forgotten anyway 😉 **cough** CBI & EC emails….

    144. heedtracker says:

      So the day UK.gov votes yes to spy on all of us, they release this whatever its meant to be. After all their threats and warnings and we wont let you use our sterling, youre out of the EU etc, they wont be our best friends if we vote to run our own country with a PR parliament in Embro. Some friendship.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/16/scottish-independence-unofficial-no-campaign-launch-lets-stay-together#start-of-comments

    145. Andra Murray says:

      I’m in Canada and can access the iPlayer with no difficulty. Geographic restrictions on internet content are easily overcome.

    146. iain wares says:

      btw
      Saw Charlie K doing his bit at PMQ’s, disappointing, I actually thought better of him.

    147. Democracy Reborn says:

      Hypocrisy from the Murdoch-owned Sun.

      They have been bashing the Beeb for years. This reached its nadir at James Murdoch’s 2009 MacTaggart lecture, E’burgh Film Festival:-

      “The Corporation is incapable of distinguishing between what is good for it, and what is good for the country.”

    148. big jock says:

      The message from No is vote Yes and we will try and destroy you Scotland. Don’t you just feel the love yal!

    149. big jock says:

      Iain…why would you think better of a liberal they have form LOL! They think Scotland is a place to collect Butterflies!

    150. Lesley-Anne says:

      Looks like we have moved house during the night, from Scotland to England to the United States. 😛

      According to Stu’s I.P. address checker we live in Sheffield yet according to ipdb we live in El Segundo, California. 🙂 Well at least THAT might explain all the sunshine we’ve been having recently. Here’s me thinking that it was all down to good old Dumfries and Galloway healthy living as well, oh well. 😛

    151. Proud Cybernat says:

      This is Proud Cybernat, reporting to you today from Preston.

      Obviously some parallel universe type thingy going on.

    152. Bill Brady says:

      So it was in my imagination that we watched BBC when we lived in Spain?

    153. Doug says:

      I’m in Glasgow or Nottingham, depending on what site I checked. Neither is close!

    154. Tartan Tory says:

      There are several things I would propose for the new Scottish Constitution.

      One of the prime examples would be that anyone who has been shown to work against Scotland’s national interests (in favour of another geographical entity, country or union) whilst domiciled here, should not be allowed to hold public office.

      This might ensure than none of the Westminster troughers (Brown/Darling/Sarwar) can ever walk into Holyrood and it could also spell the end for the likes of Ruth Davidson and Johan Lamont.

    155. heedtracker says:

      Charles Kennedy knows that Westminster secret poll costing £300 thousand was clear Yes for Scotland. He knows it’s all over now, has nothing to lose so he’s destroying his own credibility and zozzled too. From hell’s heart, he’s striking at us.

    156. gillie says:

      Not Charles Kennedy’s finest moment in parliament. He certainly looked ill, dishevelled and his delivery was slurred. Not good for him or his constituents. Surely someone has to intervene.

    157. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Tartan Tory

      The Swedes has a Constitutional Police, independent of the main criminal one, which is charged with investigating people who are breaking the Constitution, including the Secret Service and political parties.

    158. Iain says:

      Her argument falls flat anyway, with a report elsewhere yesterday that the BBC is considering the option of charging us all for iPlayer (or will No voters be excluded from this?).

      It underlines the desperation in the No camp that any sane person (or a Tory) would let his or her vote be swayed by such a triviality. “I would like to vote Yes for my children’s future, and for social justice, but I could not live without the iPlayer”.

    159. I have no Satellite and get any BBC or other channels via online players.
      However I believe many subscribe to Sky which may or may not inlude other channels like the BBC as part of the package. So what will change? If there is demand or a specific N o the Border package BBC can be brought into that – block negotiation fom Sky.

      Personally there is little enough I would miss other than the Scandi and Italian dramas.

      Many of BBC programmes are outsourced for production as it is, and the production companies can sell programmes to whomever will air them, extant company or new.
      As Call the Midwife and Dr Who are viewable in the Netherlands and the US….

      This playing to base (and irrelevant) fears with falsehoods is intolerable.

      Signed Outraged in Kincardineshire.

    160. Think Limited,
      BBM Campaigns.
      These are the Astroturfing companies that are responsible for all the misinformation,internet trolls, paid leefleters,paid activists,paid “independent experts”.

      A quick look at who they have worked for and who they are working for from JK Rowling to BBC and many of the companies that seem to come from nowhere in support of the Union.

      They were behind Tony Blair the “Peace Envoy” that manipulated Britain into an illegal war that has costs over a million lives and destabilized the whole of the Middle East.

      They have no morality ,there is nothing absolutely nothing they will not do for basically money.

    161. Vestas says:

      @ gillie

      You’d almost think he’d be glad if it never happened.

      Oh wait – it didn’t in Guardian-land….

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/jul/16/cameron-and-miliband-at-pmqs-politics-live-blog

    162. Lesley-Anne says:

      As others have said today, I too have had a lot of time for Charlie Kennedy. He was, if it is possible, one of the more sane and acceptable Lib Dems in Westminster. However what he has apparently done today at P.M.Q.’s has just eroded just about all of the respect I had left for him. In my view now he has proven himself to be no better than any of the other trougher at Westminster. He obviously sees knocking Scotland as the easiest way for him to get his hands on a cloak of ermine!

    163. Auld Rock says:

      Perhaps Wee Ruthie should have read The Guardian where they revealed that BBC is considering encryption for iPlayer thereby facilitating charging of ‘NON LICENCE PAYING’ viewers i.e. A SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE.

      Auld Rock

    164. Luigi says:

      Has Charles been at the bottle again?

      Has he ever been away from it?

      Very sad.

    165. Devereux says:

      A lot of frustration today on social media re official Yes campaign not doing enough to tackle MSM blatant lies and headlines re Kennedy nadir……For some reason, I can’t get that bit in the movie (that shall not be named) when the brave wee Scot (insert name of choice here) is standing behind a bank of pointy sticks and a big hole saying ‘Hold. Hold. Hold………..

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Griminish says: 16 July, 2014 at 1:22 pm

      “Time to give Charles a wee holiday, he looked very unwell on Andrew’s show last week.”

      Indeed, Charlie did look as unwell as, “a newt”, or perhaps as unwell as a would-be, “Lord”.

    167. heedtracker says:

      @ vestas, good to see this idiot back in Guardian land too, or rancid hypocrite labour activist in Montrose displays predictable hypocrisy as per and wonder what happened to his MP selection again, after her Hitler youth in Scotland tweets

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/10680150/public

    168. dmw42 says:

      Anent Kennedy, Angus Robertson is certainly raising the issue http://twitter.com/MorayMP

    169. Peter says:

      desimond says:
      16 July, 2014 at 10:32 am
      @JLT

      We have BBC new24 on in the work here and I occasionally get a good laugh at the subtitles…I swear the person just puts anything in ( or its really bad software)..the other day it had this peach

      Sport now – Vivien Candlelabra has withdrawn from the Tour De France

      It was of course – Alberto Contador

      Judge not lest ye be judged! It was Fabian Cancellara who withdrew on Tuesday. Contador crashed out on Monday.

    170. Bunter says:

      O/T

      There was a wee twitter discussion yday regards a Labour member from down south, Harry from Derby I think, whom it was discovered was being encouraged with travel and food expenses, to travel up here and help save the onion by SLab.

      A discussion between him and several Yessers, nothing nasty that I saw, has resulted it seems, in wee Harry running to the papers crying ”cybernat abuse”.

      Probably been another McTernan troll bait exercise, so we need to watch out for these clowns, but if you cant have a discussion???

    171. Luigi says:

      A lot of frustration today on social media re official Yes campaign not doing enough to tackle MSM blatant lies and headlines re Kennedy nadir……For some reason, I can’t get that bit in the movie (that shall not be named) when the brave wee Scot (insert name of choice here) is standing behind a bank of pointy sticks and a big hole saying ‘Hold. Hold. Hold………..

      Aye, we are all eager to ram those big spears intae them. We have no option but to trust the leader’s judgment and timing, I suppose!

    172. Clootie says:

      IPDB has moved me from London to a field near Towcester, Northamptonshire.
      I looked oot the windae and I’m still in Aberdeenshire.

    173. dennis mclaughlin says:

      These vermin in Westmonster deserve to be put up against the nearest wall and garroted for the good of the country…..they are not serving any society except their own selfish interests..form an orderly queue now poeple…..ahm furst wi the piano wire 🙂

    174. Devereux says:

      @Luigi Aye – a leader and a gambler – hey ho……….

    175. Lou Nisbet says:

      Posters on here seem ignorant of the fact that the Scottish Government have already indicated that they will start an SBC charging the same licence fee as the BBC. So the ‘half price’ offer is a non starter I’m afraid. It also indicates a lack of foresight by the SNP.

      The BBC tax is iniquitous many poor people are criminalised and even imprisoned by this whilst this never happens to the better off. Removing that tax could have been a strong ‘YES’ inducement an opportunity lost.

    176. James Westland says:

      Lord Kennedy of Talisker?

    177. Duggie says:

      “So the ‘half price’ offer is a non starter I’m afraid. It also indicates a lack of foresight by the SNP.”

      That’s the problem with the SNP and their version of ‘independence’, they’re terrified of doing anything radical or offering anything which could upset their establishment status, so they’re refusing to give the people of Scotland a say on things like the monarchy, EU membership, Nato membership, what currency Scotland should use, whether we should still have to pay a licence fee and so on.

      The version of ‘independence’ they’re offering is virtually identical to our current situation but with added powers for Salmond – whereas, as you correctly suggest, a more radical offering (as suggested by the Scottish Greens for example) had the potential to attract people opposed to the monarchy, or the EU, or having to pay a licence fee.

    178. Until yesterday I was for the most part of the bide a wee and wait regarding BT and Lies and the Media.

      But not now. Because it is those who read the headlines, once and that is the message retained.

      Nicola has however demanded apologies..meanwhile press repeats lies.

      However, if Union dissolved neither Scotland nor England will be a “member” inasmuch as who is to say England will not be in the same situation as Scotland when union is dissolved (speacial exceptions not withstanding). They entered as one, but if the treaty of union is dissolved, there is no UK.

    179. Jim Duthie says:

      James Westland

      And Glenmorangie and Glenfarclas and etc!!!

    180. BobD says:

      On a related note, is there a physical network connection direct to Scotland or does all Scottish traffic run through the UK and therefore GCHQ?

    181. Black Douglas says:

      The 👿 are like buses today.

      You wait all day then two come along at once 🙂

    182. Clootie says:

      Hi Duggie

      Back on another fishing trip?
      I would suggest a change in bait.

    183. Duggie says:

      “It sounds a reasonable argument, but like so many of the No camp’s assertions it unfortunately falls to pieces under the pressure of reality.”

      How on earth does her claim ‘fall to pieces’?

      She is, correctly, stating that after independence – in the absence of the Scottish government coming to any agreement with the BBC – the people of Scotland, like those of other EU countries, would have to pay £5.50 a month to access iPlayer legally – note legally.

    184. Wee Jimmy says:

      As a professional geek I feel I should contribute something useful, so here it is:

      You can fool any website in the world into thinking you are in any country in the world – using what we call a ‘proxy’. This is the same mechanism that allows me here in Australia to access Netflix in the US or iPlayer in the UK for free. I would stress that in the case of Netflix you still pay for it – but unlike the BBC it’s well worth the monthly fee. The point is that a proxy will allow you to ‘pretend’ you’re in the hosts country in order to access their service.

      There are paid proxy services and free proxy services. Here is a useful article which describes a few:

      http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2013/11/how-to-stream-netflix-and-hulu-in-australia-and-other-stuff-geoblockers-dont-want-known/

      Note the section on ‘Hola’ – a free proxy product which installs itself as an extension to your Firefox or Chrome browser. If you’re still using IE you need to install a ‘proper browser’ (technical term). Try it out.

      Think of this as a useful reference for any future internet service block bull-shittery that might come up again between now and September.

    185. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Actually, if the Union is broken , the FUKRS could call themselves the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

      That would put the wind into the sails of the dirty separatists of Wales and Northern Ireland.

      A clear we objective defined in the name of a State.

      What a hostage for fortune that would that name be.

      We live in interesting times.

    186. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Bye Duggie

    187. Duggie says:

      “However, if Union dissolved neither Scotland nor England will be a “member”…if the treaty of union is dissolved, there is no UK”

      I genuinely can’t believe, only 2 months before the referendum, that people with an active interest in the debate and the issues surrounding it are still spouting this complete and utter nonsensical guff.

      For about the millionth time, the united kingdom of Scotland and England – as formed by the Treaty of Union – and the sovereign state UK of GB and NI – as recognised under international law and by the UN and the entire world – are NOT the same thing.

      The dissolution of the Treaty of Union would NOT result in the sovereign state UK ‘ceasing to exist’, it would NOT result in the sovereign state UK losing its membership, it would NOT result in the sovereign state UK reverting to its constituent parts and England being in the same situation as Scotland.

      Much as many SNP followers doubtless hold the desire that a yes vote will result in the sovereign state UK ‘ceasing to exist’ – that is simply not going to happen.

      Otherwise, obviously, the UN and human rights organisations would be condemning the referendum as illegal due to the fact that it could potentially result in the dissolution of the state that 58 million people are citizens of, without those citizens being given their human right to have a say on whether they want their state to be dissolved!

    188. Nana Smith says:

      and so it goes on and on and …..Cameron sets up another flunky this time Charlie Kennedy, too stupid to realise he’s the fall guy.

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/cameron-juncker-comments-very-important-in-context-of-indyref-debate.1405519680

    189. Black Douglas says:

      Hmmmm I wonder WhatsMyIP would show for our little dug dug.

      Cheltenham would be my best guess.

      Enjoy your shift little duggie. 😀

    190. Kieran says:

      I legally don’t pay for a TV licence but can legally watch BBC iPlayer so long as I don’t watch programmes while they are being broadcast. And you get all the good BBC stuff (natural history etc) on Netflix anyway. And as others have commented, there are plenty of other ways to access iPlayer regardless of what country you are in. Ruth, you’re talking rubbish pal.

    191. Not Richard Wilson says:

      People reporting on Facebook, that Saltires were confiscated at T In That Park by security staff. When asked why, they replied that the BBC were the official broadcaster and the demanded it.
      What kind of country is this? Really?

      Why does the BBC hate Scotland?

    192. Lesley-Anne says:

      From the looks of things I think I’m leading in the ipdb internet address chase in terms of distance between *ahem* located address and *cough* actual address. :P:

    193. Cyborg-nat says:

      Duggie,
      Would you care to point out Yugoslavia or The Orange Free State on a present day map for me?
      Change is all around us and in fact it’s the only thing that is permanent.

    194. ronnie anderson says:

      BBC news tune in now James Cook

    195. Kev says:

      Jst saw the “let’s stay together” campaign video, with that growl Ross Kemp looks like he’s saying “Stay Together or else”,so much for the love-bombing.

      Yet more desperate, patronising crap from the No side, can see it turning off more folk than BT.

    196. Black Douglas says:

      @Not Richard Wilson

      They do not hate us they fear us they are frightened by change and see power slipping through their fingers.

    197. Duggie says:

      “Hmmmm I wonder WhatsMyIP would show for our little dug dug.
      Cheltenham would be my best guess.”

      Given that the author’s own example shows his IP address to be 200 miles from where he actually lives I’ve no idea what it would show for me.

      But, unlike the author, I live in Scotland and have a vote in the referendum.

    198. ronnie anderson says:

      Scotland would be 1 of the 30th wealthy nations in the world

    199. Bunter says:

      Is there something going on with this thread? Whats all this garroting rubbish.

      Usually see that kind of stuff on the NAW pages.

    200. Lesley-Anne says:

      Not Richard Wilson says:

      People reporting on Facebook, that Saltires were confiscated at T In That Park by security staff. When asked why, they replied that the BBC were the official broadcaster and the demanded it.
      What kind of country is this? Really?

      Why does the BBC hate Scotland?

      If that is the ONLY excuse they have for banning the Saltires NRW then this country really is in a bad state of affairs. Mind you it would explain why Saltires are being banned from the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games as well. 🙁

      I think we are now, after these two events, justified in calling the BBC, Pacific Quay or London or Salford or where ever, anti Scottish and racists!

    201. Duggie says:

      “People reporting on Facebook, that Saltires were confiscated at T In That Park by security staff. When asked why, they replied that the BBC were the official broadcaster and the demanded it.”

      Strange, I saw an SNP follower claiming the other day that T was awash with Saltires with ‘yes’ on them.

      If you’re going to indulge in conspiracy theories at least make them consistent.

      Although, on consideration, inconsistently is the hallmark of conspiracy theories isn’t it, so fair enough.

    202. desimond says:

      @Peter

      Ah, doh!

      I openly apologise to the stumpy fingered half deaf typist or cheap ineffectual software package.

    203. Not Richard Wilson says:

      BTW

      If you want to download anything from the iPlayer website no matter where you are on the planet use a software called “get I player.”

      £120m for the BBC to develop and someone 5 mins in their bedroom to crack. Good old BBC waste.

    204. Grant says:

      Websites like TV CatchUp block based on ISP and IP address. So it is possible, but can cause a host of additional issues.

      BBC does not currently blocked based on IP Address, you can easily work around these issues using a smart dns service. However these are not ethical or legal.

      It is a pretty sad state of affairs when people cast a vote based on their ability to watch a show aired 3 days previously.

      Why would anyone want to keep an establishment which is a safe haven for pedofiles(same goes for Westminster).

    205. Famous15 says:

      Re Charles Kennedy teeing up Cameron to smite the uppity Scots,it must be realised that if democracy is attacked by falsehoods and Liberalism is shamed by less than sober “leaders” then it is the place of the Press and Media to speak up or allow those capable to right such wrongs to do so.

      The YES campaign have issued the truthful situation in their Press Releases and we just have to wait for the mighty Fourth Estate to savage these evil lying beasts!

      OK?

    206. MochaChoca says:

      Hi Duggie, do you think rUK will still be called what it is now?

    207. Duggie says:

      “Would you care to point out Yugoslavia or The Orange Free State on a present day map for me?”

      What an odd example. Yugoslavia was torn apart in a bloody war, the Scottish referendum will be a democratic vote carried out under the strictest democratic and human rights criteria.

      Which merely reinforces my point that a yes vote will, obviously, not result in the sovereign state UK ‘ceasing to exist’ or losing any of its memberships, given the fact that such an occurrence would mean 58 million people losing their state or its memberships without being given any say on the matter.

    208. Andy-B says:

      Is there anything wee Ruthie and her vile cohorts at Better Together, haven’t mentioned, Scotland won’t get this Scotland won’t get that. Oh but if we stay we’re guaranteed WMD’s and massive austerity cuts, what a pathetic bunch of losers.

      Meanwhile,Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones, says Wales wants Scotland to stay, Mr Jones must have missed that lovely wee video with all the nice Welsh people telling Scots to go for it and vote yes.

      mMr Jones has teamed up with none other than, Anas Sarwar, who’s taken the no bus to Wales. The picture of Mr Sarwar and Mr Jones reminds me of a wanted poster.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/referendum-welsh-first-minister-carwyn-3867477

    209. Duggie says:

      “Hi Duggie, do you think rUK will still be called what it is now?”

      If they want it to be, yes. They can call it whatever they like.

    210. Muscleguy says:

      According to Where is My IP I’m in Woking, not Dundee but my ISP is ‘Edinburgh’ which is bit weird because in reality it’s Virgin Media. Go figure.

      One question though, is the IP returned the one this computer is using (served by the cable modem) or is it the IP address of the modem?

    211. desimond says:

      Duggie

      Are you a concerned Independent wishing voter ( nationality of no importance) who wishes to ensure we all are fully aware of the SNPs ineffectual and dubious intentions

      OR

      Are you
      a: Employed to mess around here
      b: Messing around here cause your job is shit
      c: Friendless

      How many NO sites do you visit to highlight the benefits you see in Independence, I have 10 fingers here if you need to borrow any.

    212. Vestas says:

      @ heedtracker

      Given up on the Guardian really – apart from a few of the regulars (like Mae etc) its wall to wall racism BTL. ABL isn’t a lot better but at least that cunt* Severin Carrell has been told to button it with his racist claptrap.

      For those of you who think that’s a bit strong, then substitute “black, Polish, Romanian, Irish” into the relevant text & see if you think for just ONE SECOND it’d be tolerated on the Guardian.

      * I make no apology (other than to offended ladies, I know its a really bad word) for calling him this, everyone is an arsehole from time to time but cunts are always cunts & that is exactly what he is.

    213. MochaChoca says:

      Duggie, your conspiracy theory appears to assume that because the TITP Saltire seizure was not 100% effective that it didn’t happen at all.

    214. Andy-B says:

      The women in the Tory cabinet that will break Scotland if we vote no, don’t let it happen vote yes.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/tory-reward-women-willing-hammer-3867693

    215. ronnie anderson says:

      @Duggie you an Lou Lou should take a hike Arbroath cliffs are a nice drop of point fur you & Lou Lou.

    216. thoughtsofascot says:

      @Duggie

      She is, correctly, stating that after independence – in the absence of the Scottish government coming to any agreement with the BBC – the people of Scotland, like those of other EU countries, would have to pay £5.50 a month to access iPlayer legally – note legally.

      Which is a half truth that is used for the sole intention of misinformation because on no agreement with the BBC, the Scottish taxpayer won’t be paying for the BBC TV license.

      When it’s put into proper context, instead of pathetic little Tory soundbites, that is in fact a saving of 6.50 Pounds a month.

      Try harder.

    217. Papadox says:

      The good old EBC appears to apply openness, honesty and fairness equally to its propaganda favourites. They don’t even get a red face.

      Palestine v Israel
      Yes v No
      Egyptian military v The Egyptian people
      Lords, rich & MPs v The people

      The EBC are just a branch of the establishment. The No voters swallow the establishments lies, hook line and sinker and appear to be proud of it

    218. Luigi says:

      The women in the Tory cabinet that will break Scotland if we vote no, don’t let it happen vote yes.

      Aye, they just can’t wait to get their sharp claws into Barnett.

      The alarm bells should be ringing. We have been warned.

    219. Muscleguy says:

      BTW as the crow allegedly flies I’m 371 miles from Woking (Virgin Media’s main data centre if I’m not mistaken) that beats your 200 miles.

      Any Virgin customers further north than Dundee wish to beat that?

      Though I suppose since we are making up BT scare stories I can imagine a vengeful Westminster post a Yes vote forcing ISPs to present lists of Scottish IP’s to the BBC so they can be blocked. Though what they do about people in the borders watching stray broadcasts I don’t know.

      I suppose they could make the cable and satellite providers remove the Beeb from our feeds in the same way they know how to feed us the right local news. But that still leaves a large chunk of the borders seeing it.

      And finally, I would miss Channel 4 more I think.

    220. Duggie says:

      “When it’s put into proper context, instead of pathetic little Tory soundbites, that is in fact a saving of 6.50 Pounds a month.”

      Well not when you take into account the fact that we’ll ALSO have to pay a licence fee for the SNP’s SBC or Salmond TV or whatever they call it – which they’ve confirmed will have the same licence cost as we pay to the BBC currently.

      So it is in fact an addition of £5.50 a month.

      Try harder.

    221. Murray McCallum says:

      The things one learns about one’s electronic computational device.

      I thought I was ahead of the game with my breadcrumb-embedded keyboard that cushions the impact when my dog runs across it.

    222. Vestas says:

      @ Andy-B :

      If you think for one second that Morgan & McVey will play a significant part in a future Tory govt then I have a bridge you may be interested in purchasing 😉

      There’s a general election scheduled & the egregious Harriet Harman was (falsely as usual) shouting about sexism (which suits her when she chooses).

      Davey boy has seen an opportunity to gain female voters without either of the new cabinet members having the time to change/screw up anything.

    223. Duggie says:

      “McLeish agreed with the current First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, who had claimed the biggest threat to Scotland in terms of EU membership was from a possible “In/Out” referendum in 2017…Scotland’s application will have to go through a pre-accession, accession and post-accession process like all other countries,” McLeish said.”

      McLeish seems confused.

      As he correctly points out, Scotland will have to apply to become an EU member ‘like all other countries’.

      Part of the pre-accession process will be to determine whether Scotland has access to a central bank (which, based on the stance of the UK parties, and the SNP’s failure to plan for our own Scottish currency it will not have).

      No central bank = no EU membership.

      That sounds like a considerable threat to EU membership to me….

    224. desimond says:

      @Vestas

      Interpretation is all.

      In Glasgow, the word is used over all spectrums.

      The ultimate accolade “They’re a good c*nt!”
      The ultimate slagging “They’re a right c*nt!”

    225. gordoz says:

      @Duggie

      BT / No Fanx sites down today ?

      Crap getting found out about Junckers Eh; so up for a bit of stirring ?

    226. Black Douglas says:

      Is it me or does our wee duggie seems a little bit more incoherent than normal, same name different operator?

    227. Andy-B says:

      One of the most corrupt banking institutions on the planet, Morgan Stanley claims Scottish independence, could see the crash of Sterling, now lets see, so far, Scottish independence would cause,, Balkanisation, unrest in the Middle East, the collapse of Northern Ireland, cross border terrorism, and trigger the onset of World War III. Oh I almost forgot, we’d be open to attack from outer space.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10967259/Scottish-independence-could-see-sterling-fall-10pc-says-Morgan-Stanley.html

    228. desimond says:

      @gordoz

      Give Duggie his due, he does manage to cram his SNP=EU=BAD argument into any debate regardless of the subject ( see above iPlayer example).

      He does doesn’t he? Youre not gonna tell me he strangely doesn’t post in articles that actually cover the subject of Scotland and the EU now are you?

    229. msean says:

      Well,looks like the indyref-merry-go-round has had two stops today,the ye canny git intae the EU misinformation stop and the ye canny use the bbc/and your iplayer/internet won’t work stop. It can be entertaining to try to guess which stop is next.

    230. Andy-B says:

      @Luigi.

      That’s right especially Priti Patel she’s got it in for Scotland, and would take great pleasure in cutting Barnett or any other block grant to Scotland.

    231. Lj says:

      If we were paying for this it would be because we weren’t paying for a TV licence! Guess which costs more per month.

    232. SquareHaggis says:

      Saw my very firstest ever UKOK car windae sticker today, very disappoiting.

      What drew my attention to it was the kids suddenly pointing and giggling “You Cock! You Cock!”. Had to roll the windaes up.
      Was about to rebuke them before I realised.
      Not sure I want them shouting that in public as it’s rather rude, surely there’s some kind of law against inciting kids to swear?

      On the plus side, oor wee toon just opened a Yes shop on the main street 😉

    233. Kev says:

      “based on the stance of the UK parties”

      Oh dear “Duggie” and you honestly believe that they are being truthful with you? Oh bless your wee heart.

    234. thoughtsofascot says:

      You could not fail harder if you tried Duggie


      Well not when you take into account the fact that we’ll ALSO have to pay a licence fee for the SNP’s SBC or Salmond TV or whatever they call it – which they’ve confirmed will have the same licence cost as we pay to the BBC currently.

      So it is in fact an addition of £5.50 a month.

      Try harder.

      Have you ever stopped to think(Scratch that, you clearly haven’t), if there is going to be a Scottish state broadcasting service, which there is no guarantee of, they’ll be buying their services off of the BBC. Work out what that means Duggie. Its the equivalent of a Battleship putting a 16inch round right through your argument.

    235. handclapping says:

      The dug is pretty boring today. About as bright as next doors guard dog that doesn’t bark at me til after I’ve given her her treat. Its all the scares on the theme of you’re too stupid that get my goat. Working peoples fears on what they don’t know and how it must be difficult and we need the folk in London to look after it as they know.

      Which poses the question, how do they know? They found out, just like we can and maybe we can find better answers than theirs. As for central banks, how long does it take to get a brass plate engraved and screwed to a doorpost?

    236. Richard Bruce says:

      Talking about isp recognition. I’m using ‘tor’ network and browser for android.

      It certainly hides your location, I’ve come from lots of countries in just the last five miinutes. Worth a try if you want to hide your tracks.

    237. Nana Smith says:

      Is it usual for the bbc to show PMQ’s in full

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28326794

    238. Muscleguy says:

      @Duggie

      Except we will not be going through the accession process as we are already members. The process Scotland will go through will be to remain a member of the EU. That is quite different. We already comply with the Acquis as all our law (different from English law note) is already completely compliant.

      So your criteria are irrelevant. As is the claim that we will have to use the Euro when one of the criteria you have to meet is two years membership of the European Exchange Rate via an independent currency cannot be met by Scotland.

    239. Graeme Menzies says:

      Will folk please stop engaging with Duggie, you are simply encouraging him. His posts are utter pish and aside from that clutter up the thread with terminally boring dogma.

      Please Ignore.

    240. gordoz says:

      RE Car Stickers :

      Can somebody tell me this; if BT / NO More Scotland are so far ahead in the polls, why the sudden rebranding to
      ‘NO’ / ‘NO Fanks X’ & ‘NAW’ and adoption of saltire blue circular car stickers (Exact same size as YES campaign) & also new circle stickers & new small circular badge shape and multi colours to mimic YES campaign ?

      Whats going on is this a panic move that we are seeing ??

      Why the need to steal YES clothes, so to speak ??

    241. Gary says:

      So, even if they DO pay to access iPlayer, they’re still paying HALF what we pay!

    242. Tattie-bogle says:

      They could put an ACL in after installing a border router

      #deny jocks jocks 255.255.255.0

      LOL

    243. Nana Smith says:

      @gordoz

      I would say the Yes campaign is way ahead hence the panic from BT/NAW blah blah blah

      I think we have been ahead for quite some time and the polls are being manipulated by Westminster/GCHQ and pals.
      After all they are rather good at lies and misinformation.

    244. Tartan Tory says:

      I am not here to be an apologist for Duggie, but as one who has been (incorrectly) labelled as some sort of No voting interloper here in the past, I would urge those who are telling him where to get off that he has every right to be here and to have his sensible questions/concerns dealt with in a sensible manner.

      I suspect a person with a Yes heart, a No head, a modicum of intelligence and one who is not trolling but, in fact, is seeking reasoned answers. I also think it’s clear that he has a deep distrust/dislike of the SNP/AS.

      Feel free to tell me I’m wrong, but for me, Duggie represents exactly the type of person who needs to realise why they should come on-side. The type of person who needs to be convinced that AS is not some sort of would-be dictator, but merely the instigator of a better country for us all. If he/she turned-up at a Yes stall asking sensible questions, would you just tell him/her to jump off a cliff? I see nothing in Duggies posts on this thread which indicate anything other than reason in the face of hostility…

      Play nice, answer sensible questions in a sensible manner, accept that Duggie is typical of a lot of No’s and undecideds and is therefore a prime candidate for a mature and reasoned debate.

      @ Duggie I cannot give you a 100% cast-iron guarantee that an independent Scotland will be all things to all men/women. I am reading between your lines and I may be barking up the wrong tree. I believe that some of your ideas may be based upon pre-existing notions which may or may not be correct. However, I can tell you this for certain: Independence for Scotland will not come from Westminster – ever! The SNP/AS are NOT mentioned on the ballot paper in September and they are NOT who we are voting for. As you may have read before, we are looking to buy a house and we should not base our decision on the wallpaper that currently hangs in the lounge.

    245. Duggie says:

      “Have you ever stopped to think(Scratch that, you clearly haven’t), if there is going to be a Scottish state broadcasting service, which there is no guarantee of, they’ll be buying their services off of the BBC”

      You’re really struggling with this aren’t you. Ireland buys BBC programs from the BBC (e.g. Eastenders) and shows them on RTE.

      RTE’s version of iPlayer (the imaginatively named RTE Player) is not however able to show the BBC programs RTE shows live on TV – so anyone wanting to watch them online or not live has to pay for iPlayer (likewise for anyone wanting to watch all the other BBC programs RTE hasn’t bought).

      SBC buying BBC programs would not negate the need for Scots to pay £5.50 a month to watch iPlayer if they want to watch those programs online or at a later time.

    246. HenBroon says:

      Duggie are you a taxi driver?

    247. Tom Foyle says:

      I don’t understand what all the fuss is about. What’s IPlayer?

    248. HenBroon says:

      Duggie how come I watched iPlayer in Holland then, on my laptop?

    249. Tom Foyle says:

      Or even iPlayer.

    250. HenBroon says:

      Tom Foyle it’s the BBCs version of catch up TV. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iplayer

    251. Duggie says:

      “Except we will not be going through the accession process as we are already members”

      No we’re not. There are 28 EU members, Scotland is not one of them.

      Scotland is PART of an EU member, it is no more a ‘member’ of the EU than Yorkshire, or Bavaria, or Catalonia or Cornwall.

      “The process Scotland will go through will be to remain a member of the EU”

      See above. Scotland is not currently a member of the EU, so obviously can’t ‘remain’ something it isn’t.

      I understand your confusion though, given the fact that the SNP have regularly and consistently lied to the people of Scotland in official government documents including the white paper by claiming Scotland is a ‘member’ of the EU when it isn’t.

    252. dmw42 says:

      Angus Robertson has raised a point of order in the HoC asking Messrs Kennedy and Cameron to correct the record, withdraw the bogus assertions and apologise to the chamber.

    253. James123 says:

      June Sarpong, Tony Robonson, Dan Snow and Ross Kemp all say we’re better together. This is a game changer, its over guys, its over.

    254. Duggie says:

      “Duggie how come I watched iPlayer in Holland then, on my laptop?”

      Illegally presumably.

    255. heedtracker says:

      @ Duggie your such a dick

    256. heedtracker says:

      @ Duggie,,sorry, you’re such a dick

    257. Dorothy Devine says:

      I have just seen the Economist cover – haw Jimmy hat and Saltired face – has anyone access to read the article entitled ” Don’t leave us this way” and the sub heading,
      “Why Scotland should stay in Britain” – though goodness knows where they think we are going.

      Was it not the Economist who gave us “Skintland” or am I blaming them for anothers wee jest?

    258. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have a problem with all this I player thingy, for starters I’ve never used it… yet. 😉

      However, the other query I have about all this we’ll have to pay to watch the crap BBC is that I’ve read on here in previous threads, obviously 😉 , and on other sites, that folks from France all the way round to Denmark are able to watch the crap BBC without paying any licence. So if THEY can all watch crap BBC for free then surely, in time, we will as well.

      p.s. I will admit that the crap BBC do actually make good documentaries but that’s about it as far as I’m concerned. 🙂

    259. gordoz says:

      @Nana Smith

      Agreed Nana; but it is very weird – surprised the shapeshifting badges & branding has not been the talk of the ‘BBC Scotland 2014 steamie’

    260. Vestas says:

      @ Mark

      Sorry, missed your reply…

      “@ Vestas “You’ll find that TV Catchup only works from UK IP addresses. Were it otherwise they would have been shut down long ago….”

      You’ll find that IP address blockers or VPNs are able to get around this ‘problem’. ”

      There are ways around every networked “secure” system in the world but in the context of this discussion its not a factor as the average user won’t want to do it.

      Discussion better elsewhere really as its of limited interest.

      Eg – you & I are clearly aware of methods of obfuscating the source IP address presented to a CDN box but Joe Public doesn’t. They just want to point & click, job done – and why not?

    261. heedtracker says:

      Hi Vestas, Guardian is rather hideous. But as soon as the referendum got going they turned very nasty which a lot of Scottish Graun readers found hard to respond to so now we don’t buy their crap. All creeps like Carrell and Steve bell have done is show how much the Graun despises Scotland and Scottish democracy and how just a determined shills really can monster democracy in Scotland. They may succeed too but the harm they’ve caused will never be forgotten.

    262. Tartan Tory says:

      @ heedtracker – when you point a finger at someone, look at how many fingers you are pointing back at yourself. I have not forgotten the things you wrongly said about me.

      @ Duggie – I have been an EU citizen for most of my life. Forget ‘member countries’, they do not have EU rights but citizens do! Upon independence, I will retain a UK passport and EU citizenship. This does not square with the idea that we will have to apply to re-join. The simple fact is that the EU does not have a mechanism (or an appetite) for ejecting existing citizens. Scotland’s EU membership will be resolved pragmatically by (Brussels) men in suits the day after a Yes vote and within eighteen months. The alternative is simply too difficult for any EU nation to accept and will fly in the face of the whole principle of the EU itself. It’s not only Scottish EU citizens who would be disenfranchised for exercising their democratic rights if this were not resolved by the EU. All EU citizens living and working in Scotland would have no right to stay here upon independence day if you believe the MSM and their no-EU membership claims. Scottish citizens are already EU citizens and will remain so upon independence. Anything else is plain lunacy.

    263. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Andy-B

      That is without a CU Sterling would fall which is why the Scot Gov is offering one as they are not spiteful.

    264. thoughtsofascot says:

      Duggie. You really should learn to fact check before speaking.

      http://www.rte.ie/player/kr/show/10304109/

    265. James123 says:

      The only solution would be if UK ISP’s such as BT set up a seperate division or even a new company to deal with their Scottish customers. That way the range of IP’s given to them would identify people living in Scotland.

      This would only work though if it applied to every company so would presumably have to be made law. Would any UK government bring in such legislation that would cost companies millions just to stop a few Scots from watching the iPlayer? Nope.

    266. Vestas says:

      @ heedtracker :

      Oh it happened long long LONG before that mate.

      As a friend said to me “Scots are fine upstanding people on the Guardian as long as they vote Labour.” 😉

    267. Muscleguy says:

      @wee silly duggie (here boy, good boy)

      If Scotland is not a member of the EU then pray tell why are laws incorporate EU law? Why is the European convention on human rights part of our law? Why do our businesses and schools and employers comply with EU law and rulings? Why does the European flag fly here?

      Why are EU citizens allowed to vote in our local elections, and the referendum while Russian or Ecuadorian or Fijian people are not?

      That is a very strange set of circumstances for a country is not?

      You completely ignored my point about Scotland’s laws (being separate from England’s) complying with the Acquis. Was that because I used a foreign word you didn’t understand? or because it didn’t fit your silly rant about us not being a member of the EU?

      Scotland is more than a sub region of a member because of all those trappings of a nation we never gave up, like a separate legal system. Trappings that make it much easier for us to become independent than say Wales. Though given time as a devolved entity Wales is likely to build up enough domestic law to make that much easier. Which is why the idea that devolution will kill independence stone dead was always very silly. Like you.

      Did you ever come back on that other thread and debate me like I asked? I must go back and look . . .

      Can’t find it, but never mind you came on here so I can play with you. Please reply, please come play.

    268. crazycat says:

      @Tartan Tory

      It’s very decent of you to defend Duggie, and I think your general points are valid, but I believe you are wrong in your assessment of him for the following reason:

      There is a poster called tellen1 on the Guardian’s CiF forums, who is an avowed No voter. Thousands of posts were made by this person. He/she has been quieter recently, but there was a phase when near enough word-for-word identical posts appeared under tellen1’s name on CiF and, at roughly the same time, on here under Duggie’s name.

      Either one was an avid fan of the other and liked his/her posts so much that copying them seemed like a good idea, or they are the same person (or are working for the same outfit). They also shared a debating style – repeating their original contention again and again regardless of the answers others had been drawn into providing. Abies alba also does this (interspersed with tantrums along the lines of “How very dare you disagree with me!”).

    269. Mat says:

      The NOBs having another stab at claiming specialist health care arrangements are doooomed.

      ‘Informal relationships’ will stop working because of, well, furriners. And too smallness. We’re good, but will stop being good because too wee. It’s just a bureaucratic nightmare, so it is.

      They’ve learned since the Great Ormond Street cock up, so all very generic, but it is the same old barely-warned-up FUD. He maybe needs to get his papers marked again.

    270. Mat says:

      Nope, tried to be too clever with the link there.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j8ma9Eg8vY

    271. heedtracker says:

      @ Vestas, true but then same rather nasty twits at BetterTogether Graun said vote Clegg and vote LibDem last time Vote LibDem England, Labour in Scotland for the suckers. How bad can it get. Just one more Brown/Darling tragic legacy.

    272. HenBroon says:

      Duggie it is the people of Scotland who are EU citizens. These rights are confered on us as individuals. No words or bombastic spittle flecked ranting from the likes of you can change that fact. There is no law on earth that can tawe that right away from me. You just have to learn to live with it, no matter how much ill you fantasise about for an independent Scotland. You and your ilk are a bloody disgrace.

      I see the SO and GCHQ are trying to spam the thread to death now their propaganda has been blown apart by Junckers himself. No wonder the EU laughs at Cameron. A cowardly leader of a failing state.

      I as a Scottish citizen am a citizen of the EU. It even tells me this on my passport. Scotland voting Yes on the 18th September will change nothing. As it is a referendum to begin a process of independece at some future date. Negotiations will then take place with London and Brussels. On the 19th of September i will still be an EU citizen and nothing and no one can change that because there is no legislation so to do.

      Juncker’s comments are a direct suggestion that post Yes the Commission WILL treat Scotland as a succession rather than accession state. The rUK will share succession rights as an asset to be split (yes just like currency, BoE, overseas missions etc) and it is in their post Yes negotiating interests to do exactly that.

      It is in the gift of the UK Govt to clarify the position with the Commission. They have refused despite repeated requests, including from the Law Society though you would never know based upon the way the issue is reported. When Salmond debates with Darling he will PIN him on this obfuscation.

      It is the UK Govt who have WILFULLY created unecessary uncertainty therefore deliberately acted against the best interests of both the Scottish and rUK electorates for nothing more than No campaign collateral. All UK Govt needed to do was ask the question. So the supplementary is…why haven’t they?

      The citizens of Scotland will have decided that Scotland is independent as a result of a perfectly democratic and legal process which is recognised by the constitution of the UK. The foundation treaties of the EU oblige all member states to recognise and defend such decisions – and puts an obligation on them to act in “good faith” in such circumstances.

      Furthermore, the citizens of Scotland will not have expressed any overt desire to leave the EU. The Scottish Government has no intention of applying to leave the EU via the provisons of Article 50 – the only legal mechanism for an exit – and in fact has explicitly stated its desire for Scotland to remain an EU member.

      Expelling such a country from the EU against its wishes would mean that the EU and its institutions would be breaching the rights and obligations that the population of Scotland have entered into as individuals as a result of their status as EU citizens. It would create a legal nightmare for the EU.

      The BBC, the Herald, and other MSM oulets have changed their initial knee jerk response to this story that had the Better Together lackeys high fiving and slavering once more at the prospect of bad news for Scotland. To witness the zeal with which those people jump up and down at the slighest chance to spin an anti Scottish story is vomit inducing.

      Their anti Scottish sentiments are what has killed the UK. Their treachery will not be forgotten on the 19th September. BBC Scotland are an utter disgrace and are nothing more than an anti Scottish Unionist mouthpiece.

    273. desimond says:

      @Tartan Tory

      To add to what @crazycat said there, maybe if Duggie engaged with folk on all topics and didn’t jump in with his constant anti SNP/Salmond bias and EU/Monarchy arguments then people would discuss matters with him in an open and warm basis like they do with others.

      Sadly his desperate off-topic rants just sounds like the guy who stands in the pub harping on about that cracking holiday he and his old partner had in Majorca before he spiraled out of control, slept with her best mate, got dumped and is no longer allowed to see the kids

    274. The Morgatron says:

      No need to worry about Duggie , he couldnt use it anyway , because its an “AYE player” . Eh Douglarse?

    275. heedtracker says:

      @ Tartan Tory, that does sound a bit like me and I certainly can be as much a dick as Duggie but I’m not a troll and if I did write all that, I do gone on don’t I : D

      All that’s going to happen with the BBC and Yes winning is a change of logo, change of top liggers and much more Scottish broadcasting with Scotland actually reported and Scottish accents far more prevalent with accents from Shetland, Orcadain, the lovely western isles, the North East Doric, Tayside and Fifers, Edinburgh, the beautiful Borders, and not simply Glasgow, and all dominating all encompassing ukok standard bloody English.

      Apologies if I left out any of Scotland’s many wonderful accents that are never heard anywhere much on teamGB media, unless it’s for comic relieving England or for someone really really evil on Beastenders.
      It’s called Beastenders as they’re at it like beasts, beasts is Doric for cows by the way.

    276. Paula Rose says:

      Darlings! I get in and read the comments and find that the wee Duggie has been barking. What a boon to the Yes cause he is – knocks off at five and by six all his ‘points’ have been demolished. He must be very disheartened, better check he’s not migrated to ‘I used to be a celebrity’.

    277. lumilumi says:

      As to the iPlayer and other BBC online output.

      I live abroad – I’m actually – ghasp – a foreigner, and I know I could get BBC iPlayer through some proxy arrangement, but, frankly, why bother?

      BBC (especially Scotland) “news and current affairs” output is so dire it’s much better and less trouble reading the resumes here at WoS.

      I can get online radio and used to listen to Derek Bateman’s and then Ken MacDonald’s Sunday morning show until they were cancelled for being sort of balanced.

      I listen to Out of Doors fairly regularly (the outdoor/rural programme on early Saturday mornings on BBC Scotland radio).

      And my guilty secret is… listening to county cricket on BBC’s online English local radio stations. Just as background noise, you understand.

      But this year the BBC have done a wonderful thing: Test Match Special is fully available abroad via UTube! I can hear all of the England vs. India test series. It’s not the Ashes but test cricket is test cricket and weirdly fascinating.

      I got into cricket while I lived in Australia, in the era when the Ozzies always beat the Pommies, so I cannot be an England fan. I don’t mind if they do well against anybody but Australia, though I don’t mind if their opponents do well… I just want a good, exciting (yes, test cricket can be exciting!) game.

    278. Robert Peffers says:

      @Duggie says: 16 July, 2014 at 3:16 pm:
      “That’s the problem with the SNP and their version of ‘independence’, they’re terrified of doing anything radical or offering anything which could upset their establishment status, so they’re refusing to give the people of Scotland a say on things like the monarchy, EU membership, Nato membership, what currency Scotland should use, whether we should still have to pay a licence fee and so on. “

      Oh! for the love o Pete! Gie iz a break, Duggie. Dae ye think wi micht jist concentrate oan winnin a referendum afore wi git doon tae, decidin tae chuck out Lizzie or no chuckin oot Lizzie, gannin intil the EU or no gannin intil the EU , bidin intil NATO or no bidin intil NATO an, oanywey, wir gaun tae hae the Pound fir wir currency.

      Ken whit happens tae weans whit try tae rin afore they kin stravaig?

      They aye fa doon afu hard oan thir erses.

    279. Andy says:

      Right, so when we are all using Scottish ISPs who use the Scottish Internet Exchange http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Faster-internet-for-Scots-58d.aspx we won’t have IP addresses that are identifiably Scottish ? Run that one by me again…

    280. John Fowler says:

      Who cares, the BBC is rubbish anyway. Their obvious bias has made it so I won’t lose any sleep if we don’t get it. Here is a question though, is BBC public owned, does that mean Scotland is entitled to a slice of it.

      Why would anyway want to pay 5 quid for Iplayer, when you can get netflix for just more than that.

    281. JWil says:

      I use Iplayer very occasionally. So occasionally that it would not be a loss to me. Most of the programmes I can’t watch when transmitted, I can record on a very convenient cable system.

    282. lumilumi says:

      @ Robert Peffers (7.46pm, above)

      Geesh, I can’t write or speak in dialects but I understood every word of yours, and agree.

      The first goal is to make Scotland independent. That can be done by simply placing an (x) against the YES on the ballot paper.

      Then starts the job of nation building. Written constitution, negotiations with rUK, EU, NATO, UN…

      First GE in the newly independent Scotland. Will the SNP retain their absolute majority? Very unlikely in a proportional representation system. Will bitter and angry slabs sabotage iScotland out of spite? (I wouldn’t put it past them, they’re Westminster bots.)

    283. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rosa Alba Macdonald says: 16 July, 2014 at 3:17 pm:
      “However, if Union dissolved neither Scotland nor England will be a “member” inasmuch as who is to say England will not be in the same situation as Scotland when union is dissolved (speacial exceptions not withstanding). They entered as one, but if the treaty of union is dissolved, there is no UK.”

      Only one thing wrong with that statement, Rose Alba McDonald. You missed out the most important parts of the argument.

      You must make the points that the name of what the Treaty of Union created was exactly what the resultant title says it is, “THE UNITED KINGDOM. It is a Kingdom – not a COUNTRY: It has ONLY Two equally sovereign signatory kingdoms and the 1800/1 Treaty makes absolutely no change to the 1706/7 treaty as both Wales and Ireland were already annexed by the Kingdom of England. Thus there was no new Kingdom of, “Northern Ireland”, created by either the partition of Ireland nor by the Treaty of 1800/1. The Crown of Ireland Act of 1542 annexed all Ireland to the Kingdom of England.

      That 1800/1 Treaty could not create a new kingdom of Northern Ireland because it became part of the kingdom of England in 1542. All it did was change the Title of the still bipartite United Kingdom to include the Northern bit of Ireland.

    284. lumilumi says:

      And what I meant to say, before I got tangled into my despising of SLAB, was that issues like monarchy, EU, NATO, can be resolved AFTER independence. When people in Scotland have their own voice.

      Referendums on these issues. Referendums where the voice of the Scottish people count.

      For instance, monarchy – Queen Lizzy – is quite popular (and she is a wonderful old lady) but what happens in the near future when the hapless Charles III inherits the throne of Scotland and the throne of England (incorporating Wales and Northern Ireland)?

    285. Arabs for Independence says:

      Apparently you don’t need a licence if you detest the BBC. I Am glad I stopped paying nearly two years ago.

      Just don’t pay and ignore the Capita threats

    286. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi heedtracker.

      You typed,
      …and Scottish accents far more prevalent with accents from Shetland, Orcadain, the lovely western isles, the North East Doric, Tayside and Fifers, Edinburgh, the beautiful Borders, and not simply Glasgow, and all dominating all encompassing ukok standard bloody English.

      And, perchance, a chance to have a clear-out of those female (mostly Westcoaster) news readers who are in denial and ignore the difference between woman (pronounced ‘wooman’) singular, and women (pronounced ‘wimmin’) plural.
      Makes me want to skweem and skweem and skweem!

      And how many of the continuity announcers have been to the “speak through your nose” school of broadcast articulation?

    287. Rock says:

      Training Day,

      “Kennedy’s intervention at PMQs was an utter disgrace. A scabrous lie told for the approval of his Tory masters.

      Let’s hear no more talk of ‘decent’ unionist MPs. They don’t exist.”

      Precisely. Kennedy, Chisholm, McLeish – they are all in the same camp. Don’t trust any of them.

      And it is too late for them to come out for Yes – it would be a purely opportunist move.

    288. Robert Peffers says:

      Just for the sake of interest here is the exact text of the first part of, The Crown of Ireland Act, 1542

      The King’s highnesse, his heyres and successours, Kings of England, be alwayes Kings of Ireland, and that his Majestie, his heyres and successours, have the name, stile, title, and honour of King of Ireland, with all maner honours, preheminences, prerogatives, dignities, and other things whatsoever they be to the estate and majestie of a King imperiall appertayning or belonging; and that his majestie, his heyres and successours, be from henceforth named, called, accepted, reputed, and taken to be Kings of Ireland, to have, hold and enjoy the said stile, title, majestie, and honours of King of Ireland, with all maner preheminences, prerogatives, dignities, and all other the premisses unto the King’s highnesse, his heyres and successours for ever, as united and knit to the imperial crown of England.

      Now that last bit could hardly be clearer: –
      “for ever, as united and knit to the imperial crown of England.”
      Annexation not a union of equals.

    289. Rock says:

      Ruth Davidson stands for everything that makes the Tories so hated in Scotland.

      She spouts more poison at First Ministers’ questions than even Johann Lamont.

      Her democratic mandate? She came 4th in her constituency with little more than 7% of the vote. 93% didn’t vote for her.

      If her beloved Westminster system rules applied in Scotland, she wouldn’t even be an MSP, let alone leader of the Tory party.

    290. Kevin Lynch says:

      In the grand scheme of things is BBC iPlayer worth our independence? Frankly it’s insulting Ruth Davidson seeks to reduce the debate to such a frivolous material level.

      Before iPlayer, we got by just fine.

    291. Paula Rose says:

      How does one play with I? Oh, I see, giggle.

    292. Rock says:

      Woof Woof to you too.

    293. fletch says:

      I’d gladly stop paying the Licence Fee and accept completely commercial TV service here in scotland now that would save me £145.50 a year.

    294. fletch says:

      What hold on! Are they also going to tell us we can’t use our websites that have .co.uk suffix?

    295. lumilumi says:

      @ Rock (8.48pm) and Kevin Lynch (8.54pm)

      BBC iPlayer and Ruth Davidson are just two of the things it’ll be worth sacraficing for Scottish independence.

      Imagine independent Scotland’s SBC and their free-to-air and online offering, free of Westminster control.

      EastEnders and some other mindless favourites, more quality foreign dramas, more quality Scottish dramas.

      News where we are.

      As to Ruthie, even though she’s a tory and a puppet, she’s a better one than the two other tory puppets in Holyrood, Lamont and Rennie. She’s sort of witty and she’s got a sense of humour. The other two don’t.

      In an independent Scotland, Westmister-puppet Ruth will be brushed aside while Murdo finally starts his Scottish Conservative (not tory) centre-right party.

      He wanted to do it in 2011, he’ll want to do it again, and that party might do quite well in indy Scotland. Well-off people with a social conscience will feel comfortable about a Scottish centre-right party – it’s much lefter than any UK parties so it’s all right.

    296. Eddie Black says:

      I can (with a bit of free available software on the internet) make my IP anywhere in the world….EG; I use an american IP to access usa streaming of TV shows amongst other things….If it can be encrypted, it can be unencrypted just as easily….It’s not rocket science.

    297. Rock says:

      lumilumi,

      “As to Ruthie, even though she’s a tory and a puppet, she’s a better one than the two other tory puppets in Holyrood, Lamont and Rennie. She’s sort of witty and she’s got a sense of humour. The other two don’t.”

      I disagree with you on that.

      Ruth Davidson spouts more poison than the other two.

      I find it disgraceful for a non-entity like her, who got 7.2% of the vote in her constituency, to be using the tone she uses against a democratically elected First Minister much more senior than her.

      Rennie is not much better.

      Whatever Lamont’s weaknesses, she at least does have a better democratic mandate in the Scottish parliament than the other 2 non-entities.

    298. thoughtsofascot says:

      @Paula Rose

      Darlings! I get in and read the comments and find that the wee Duggie has been barking. What a boon to the Yes cause he is – knocks off at five and by six all his ‘points’ have been demolished. He must be very disheartened, better check he’s not migrated to ‘I used to be a celebrity’.

      I’m not sure what his shtick is. Every time he pops his head above the parapets, he gets demolished. If he actually learned how to fact check(Something the official BT campaign is clueless about too), then he wouldn’t get humiliated every damn time.

    299. Tartan Tory says:

      As this thread has now all but died, I’m probably talking to myself here, but I feel the need to respond again. I’ve read every single sentence written above by Duggie and, despite thoughtsofascot suggesting the contrary, everything Duggie says ‘in isolation’ is indeed fact, with the exception of this:

      As he [Henry MacLeish] correctly points out, Scotland will have to apply to become an EU member ‘like all other countries’.

      Whilst MacLeish may have said this, it is not a statement of fact!

      Now, I do not frequent other forums or newspaper comments sections, so I have no way of knowing if this chap is a regular troll elsewhere. Furthermore, I have not come across Duggie’s ramblings on other Wings topics, so I may just be a bit naive to his comments. However, I still suspect a Yes heart that needs to completely understand that we are not voting for the SNP/AS. I see a mental block with him on this topic alone. Unfortunately, there are a number of people on Wings who, once they suspect a troll, simply don’t take the time to read what’s actually being posted and therefore lack the interest in responding in the correct manner. I wish this were not the case, but I’m not the boss and therefore can’t deal with it.

      Duggie, as a right-of-centre businessman who may not fit the generally perceived demographic of Wings posters, I’d welcome the chance to sit down with you and show you exactly where your judgement may be clouded by visions of SNP mistrust or even hatred. I am not an SNP member or activist and, in fact, would be more closely aligned to the Greens or the OLD Scottish unionist tories. However, I am totally committed to an independent Scotland and I believe that pragmatism, rather than party politics, will be the order of the day post independence. If you want to vote No just to spite the SNP/AS, then you sir, are a turkey voting for Christmas to be only on a Wednesday, because you just don’t like the thought of being basted at weekends. I beg you to see the wider picture.

    300. Duggie says:

      “If Scotland is not a member of the EU then pray tell why are laws incorporate EU law? Why is the European convention on human rights part of our law? Why do our businesses and schools and employers comply with EU law and rulings? Why does the European flag fly here?”

      Er………because Scotland is part of an EU member called the UK obviously!

      All the above criteria also apply to Cornwall, and Yorkshire, and London too – are they all ‘members’ of the EU as well?!

    301. Tartan Tory says:

      Once again Duggie, your words are fact. Scotland is currently part of a EU member called the UK and that criteria also applies to Cornwall, Yorks, and London. Something to consider though, when discussing Scotland in terms of English regions. Can you tell me what is the capital city of London please? Or the capital city of Somerset, or Avon, or

      However, other than stating the obvious, you do not address the issue that you are supposed to be discussing.

      I am a Scottish EU citizen and I will still be a Scottish EU citizen in an independent Scotland. This is a fact which has been reinforced by Westminster. I will hold a UK passport and I will still be an EU citizen who has not chosen to move my residence from where it stands today.

      Pray tell me how you will square my fact with some more of your facts. Don’t come back and tell me that we breathe air. You will, of course, be stating another fact, but it will not be relevant. The EU cannot disenfranchise its existing citizens by virtue of a democratic vote. Therefore, the only pragmatic way forward is for the UK’s membership of the EU to be made to include Scotland via paper exercise. Let’s face it, all it needs in simple terms is a paper exercise to resolve the issue. The alternative for the EU is utter turmoil. I believe this can easily be achieved within an eighteen month time frame.

    302. Duggie says:

      “I will hold a UK passport and I will still be an EU citizen”

      If you choose to retain your UK citizenship after independence then yes, you will still be an EU citizen.

      But that doesn’t change the fact that the country where you live would not automatically be entitled to EU membership and would have to apply for membership and meet all the criteria for membership.

      If you moved to Australia you would still be an EU citizen by virtue of your UK citizenship, but that wouldn’t mean Australia would automatically become an EU member.

      Get it?

    303. Paula Rose says:

      Duggie dear are you thinking that Scotland might drift on ocean currents?

    304. Tartan Tory says:

      I get where youy are coming from Duggie, but the minute you start quoting half my sentance and adding in the other side of the world for no reason, you loose the arguement.

      I will hold a UK passport and I will still be an EU citizen who has not chosen to move my residence from where it stands today.

      Either you are blinded by No propoganda, or you believe that the world works by trying to make everything difficult for everybody against everybody’s wishes or desires.

      You seem to believe that the EU will change its constitution, it’s economy and its geography just to spite the Scots? Let me tell you a secret…. We ain’t that disliked across Europe! That accolade is reserved for the boys in Westminster. As a businessman, I can tell you that pragmatism and paperwork will prevail. Your option is a non-starter, outside of a Blair MacDougal wet dream.

    305. thoughtsofascot says:

      @Tartan Tory

      As this thread has now all but died, I’m probably talking to myself here, but I feel the need to respond again. I’ve read every single sentence written above by Duggie and, despite thoughtsofascot suggesting the contrary, everything Duggie says ‘in isolation’ is indeed fact, with the exception of this:

      Fact? Hes pulling most of it right out of his ass. His claims about the RTE player not being allowed to show British shows for example is debunked by a simple check on their website. He cannot fact check for the life of him and that is his problem.

    306. Tartan Tory says:

      Not wishing to start an argument by appearing to support our chum Duggie here, but his statement about live TV on RTE was correct!

      Perhaps you didn’t read each and every word of his sentence or, given that there could have been ambiguity in how it was written, took it to mean something different.

      Duggie said:
      RTE’s version of iPlayer (the imaginatively named RTE Player) is not however able to show the BBC programs RTE shows live on TV

      It’s the ‘live on TV’ bit that could perhaps be misconstrued. What he has said is that you can’t use the RTE player to (later) watch BBC TV programmes which are shown ‘live’ on RTE. This is correct as far as I understand it.



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