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Wings Over Scotland

Why won’t he just die?

Posted on December 09, 2014 by

Alex Salmond as the Terminator. Any way you slice it it’s a remarkable mental image from the mind of a clearly distraught James Kirkup of the Telegraph.

Apparently death wouldn’t stop him anyway. We’ve actually cut this clip before the point where the woman from the Economist calls the former First Minister a “zombie who just keeps on powering through to the end of the horror movie”. Of course, if you think of the Union as the horror movie, it’s not the worst analogy we’ve ever heard.

We asked Jim Murphy for a comment. He chose another sci-fi comparison.

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    1. 09 12 14 15:59

      Why won’t he just die? | FreeScotland

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      Why won't he just die? | Politics Scotland | S...

    4. 09 12 14 21:25

      Salmond denies ‘Skynet collusion’ – The North British Post | The North British Post

    378 to “Why won’t he just die?”

    1. Luigi says:

      And what about the other 1.6 million of us – do they want us all to just die and disappear?

    2. Salt Ire says:

      Might have imagined a bit of grudging respect in amongst the fear there. Probably did. Did.

    3. Yesitis says:

      @ Luigi

      That`s what I take from it as well.
      Why don`t those separatists just go away and die?

    4. Desimond says:

      “Why wont he just die?”

      “You mean Go to The Lords?”

      “Same thing!”

      “Something about the sun and melting rocks..I couldnt really understand a word he was saying!”

    5. Roberto Esquierdo says:

      So they now want Salmond to die . I wonder if the MSM will have that as headline news?

    6. Doug Daniel says:

      Bloody democracy, why must it keep throwing up inconveniences for the union?

    7. donald anderson says:

      There was a chopper flying above them during the interview and they were terrified Alex The Union Terminator was going to jump out and eat then.

    8. Mosstrooper says:

      Repugnant British nationalists sums them up. Also two bit third rate hacks who are finding that their rectal sphincter muscles have loosened somewhat with the return of Alex.

    9. Doug Daniel says:

      Bloody democracy, why must it keep throwing up inconveniences for the union?

      Did anyone else have the wrong ballot paper in September, incidentally? My one mentioned Scotland, not Alex Salmond. Must have been a mistake at the printers.

    10. Alexandra-M- says:

      You know what thought gladdens my heart?… The thought of Scottish Labour being obliterated in May.

    11. Holebender says:

      He’ll be back… and he absolutely will not stop, ever, until the union is dead!

    12. Lesley-Anne says:

      I have one question, well one question of any importance for now. 😉

      Who organised the helicopter to approach the Westminster at that exact time, it was timed almost to perfection. 😉 I mean it was perfect. It managed to just about drown out the rest of complete TWADDLE that incompetent jealous non entity had to say about Alic Sammin! 😛

    13. heedtracker says:

      Sounds like oor Eck’s in coming on that chopper overhead too. I love the smell of Tory boy panic in the morning, red or blue. It smells like victory.

    14. Lollysmum says:

      No wonder AyeAlba was so angry at this yesterday.

      I can’t even cancel my tv licence-been there done that 🙂

      Yet more confirmation if any was needed that Alex has them on the run. Isn’t that great? He caused havoc last time he was in Westminster & is about to do the same again. One thing is for sure Alex will land far more hits than he takes. He doesn’t conform to type so he has them worried. Hell of a compliment really. Mr Salmond I salute you-go get ’em.

      Oh & thanks to Moira for supporting you. She must be a saint!

      Time to stock up on popcorn 🙂

    15. X_Sticks says:

      Awww, you cut the zombie bit out! I was looking forward to that.

      I do get the impression that londonites really, really don’t like our lovely ex First Minister. He seems to haunt them in a strangely unfathomable way.


    16. Helena Brown says:

      Totally sick of these people, they are so up themselves they don’t even see it.

    17. Blind Squirrel says:

      Jeez they really have double standards. Imagine if we said this about anyone on the No side. The yes side has been consistent about this though – the only way to get rid of Salmond was to vote yes. Since that option is off the table there is no way to get rid of him my no voting friends.

    18. Grizzle McPuss says:


      As for the “the other 1.6 million of us”…hasn’t the tried & tested ‘famine’ approach been re-introduced upon us to sort that one out?

      …and I’m talking about the Smith Commission recommendations which seem to have the intent of breaking us down.

    19. Alexandra-M- says:

      My comments don’t seem to be showing for some reason.

    20. drawdeaddave says:

      Pity we cant get that on a leaflet, A.S has only just announced he is standing and already the unionists are running scared of the man, you can bet your bottom dollar (our currency of the future) they will form all sorts of alliances, deploy all sorts of dirty tactics, use their BBC and MSM propaganda machine, and throw the whole house at stopping him from going to WM.. Looking forwards to democracy in action in the Gordon seat

    21. biggpolmont says:

      Why will this man not die? and the answer is (please excuse
      the mix of film genre’s… sci fi with sword and sandals)
      Because I AM SPARTACUS!
      This is what these cretins at the telegraph etc do not understand. its not about the person its about an idea ! the idea will never die the only dead around is the unionist parties….. the walking dead !

    22. Dan Huil says:

      The ever-widening social and political differences between Scotland and England continue to be exposed.

    23. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      They are scared.

      He won’t stop he gets what he wants.

      I thought that was what real politicians with commitment did?

      Ah, these are London politicos and commentariat.

      A Politician with principles?

      They are scared

    24. starlaw says:

      Perhaps we could market a game with wee pop up alecsamins, you know! a bit like whack a mole . . be a great fundraiser

    25. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’m curious.

      Is it just me, probably 😉 , but what on earth was that twat going on about Alic Sammin resigning and he should just go away?

      As far as I can recall the ONLY resigning Alex Salmond has done is to resign as FIRST MINISTER and resign as LEADER of the S.N.P. Now I know I’m dumb, the Rainbow Communist party keep telling me I’m dumb, but at what point does resigning as First Minister and/or resigning from party leadership require the resignee to resign from front line politics?

    26. Robert McDonald says:

      I guess Magrit Curran’s bus will be along an a few minutes to finish off the job.

    27. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      @ Helena Brown says:
      9 December, 2014 at 3:20 pm

      Totally sick of these people, they are so up themselves they don’t even see it.

      Helena, they no longer feel it either.

      Quite a common condition at Westminster and in the London press.

    28. Capella says:

      I can’t believe they broadcast that. It’s like hate crime – as standard discourse in the BBC. Was that the BBC? They clearly don’t understand the principles of democracy. Not surprising in a state run by corporations – which is the basic meaning of fascism.

    29. Alan says:

      If you don’t want SNP politicians cluttering up your gin palace, stop campaigning against independence you muppets!

    30. Helena Brown says:

      BtP so true

    31. One_Scot says:

      Why do we allow ourselves to be ruled by these people, have we no self respect or dignity.

    32. liz says:

      Just when you think the BBC couldn’t stoop any lower.
      It’s absolutely fucking outrageous.

      Can you imagine the uproar if ANY SNP member said that about anyone?

      Oh Yes civilisation as we know it ended when those councillors burned the Smith front page.

      What can be done in the face of such hatred?

    33. Snode1965 says:

      If I was Alex, I would not be rushing to go through the Clyde Tunnel in a taxi ! Accidents do happen.

    34. Dair Allan says:

      To be fair to the telegraph knob (can’t believe I just said that) he was claiming to echo what Labour high heid yins were saying. Pretty much exactly what you’d expect from Labour.

      I’d love someone to photoshop an Alex Salmond/Terminator mash up with the caption “And he absolutely WILL NOT stop until U.K.’s dead”.

    35. Macart says:

      The lack of empathy, understanding, even self awareness is breathtaking.

      Self obsessed, thoughtless arseholes, the lot of them.

      I hope Alex Salmond turns the commons world inside out. The shock’ll do them some good.

    36. Juteman says:

      I wonder how far the British State would go to ensure he doesn’t win?

    37. bookie from hell says:

      SNP & GREENS more than tripled membership,referendum didn’t kill Independence,it gave it a rebirth.

      Many Unionists now wish Scottish Parliament wasn’t born

      make it a stark choice

    38. Karmanaut says:

      Of course Labout H.Q. want him dead. Quite a risky strategy to let James Kirkup broadcast it to the whole nation though. There’s all sorts of nutters out there.

    39. gillie says:

      I don’t think anyone would notice the difference if James Kirkup died.

    40. gillie says:

      I don’t think anyone would notice the difference if James Kirkup died.

    41. gillie says:

      I don’t think anyone would notice the difference if James Kirkup died.

    42. gillie says:

      I don’t think anyone would notice the difference if James Kirkup died.

    43. yerkitbreeks says:

      The Terminator ( Arnold Schwarzenegger ):

      “Hasta la vista, baby.”

    44. Jimbo says:

      Yep! They reckoned after the referendum was over all the uppity Jocks would just be returned to their box and buried out of sight for ever.

      They can’t seem to come to terms with, or grasp that, democracy is about having elections/referendums in order that the will of the people be known – Unless it’s Scotland’s people whose voices, as far as those living inside the London bubble are concerned, should not be heard.

    45. Desimond says:

      The Scene:
      A Family Home…Xmas Day…A man picks up a present wrapped in Blue White and Red gift wrap. His loving wife looks on..

      WIFE: “Who is that one for love?”
      HUSBAND: “Me I think. It just says ‘For Salmond'”

      ( He unwraps the paper revealing a heavy grey object and a card)

      WIFE:“What is it?”
      HUSBAND:“Err, a rock i think?”
      WIFE:“What’s that with it?”
      HUSBAND: “Instructions it seems. it just says ‘Please crawl under!'”

    46. yerkitbreeks says:

      or …….

      “Listen and understand. That Terminator is out there. It can’t be bargained with. It can’t be reasoned with. It doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”

    47. Ananurhing says:

      Love it. Dalex Salmond……Extrapolate.

      Can nobody stop him!

    48. Stoker says:

      Helena Brown says:
      “Totally sick of these people, they are so up themselves they don’t even see it.”

      I think they call it Sphincteritis Clapidosis, Helena.

      Alexandra-M- says:
      “My comments don’t seem to be showing for some reason.”

      I can see both your post’s perfectly well, Alexandra.

    49. tombee says:

      I’ll bet that was Alex’s helicopter flying overhead, surveying his new battleground, while that asshole was spewing his crap.

    50. Allan Patterson says:

      Now we have a one of the suspects for Willie MacRae’s fate.

    51. If Alex was a Zombie he would already be dead (do the MSM not check anything they say, lazy journalism at its worst).
      Anyhoo a `Zombie Terminator`sounds fricken awesome maybe Alex could be sent back in time to before Black Thursday and Wreak Havoc with the Unionist ("Tractor" - Ed)s and thereby changing the course of history in Scotland.:)

    52. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Whit condescending prattle. A kirkup the jacksie that lad needs.

      But it’s so inconvenient for these types to have to face the fact there’s a world beyond the neat wee bubble they inhabit. Shocking. People thinking for themselves. They can’t get their heads around it.

      It’s hilarious, the outrage.

    53. Luigi says:

      Yesitis says:

      9 December, 2014 at 3:13 pm

      @ Luigi

      That`s what I take from it as well.
      Why don`t those separatists just go away and die?

      Unfortunately for them, the average NO voter is much older than the average YES voter. They will disappear first.

    54. chalks says:

      And in the blue corner, representing posh twats and racist anti-immigrants everywhere and ignorant farmers, hailing from fk knows where:


      He better learn how to spell lose.

    55. Taranaich says:

      Ach, get tae hell, James Kirkup, I did the Alex Salmond/Terminator analogy over a month ago!

      Foolish Britnats, don’t they realise Cybernat Systems Model 101 follows a strict programme?

      IF SCOTLAND INDEPENDENT retire.exe (run) [golf]
      IF SCOTLAND [NOT] INDEPENDENT campaign.exe (open) [shutdown]
      IF SCOTLAND [NOT] ERRORLEVEL (1) udi.exe (execute) [freedom]

      Listen, and understand. That nationalist is out there. He can’t be bargained with. He can’t be reasoned with. He doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until Scotland is independent.

    56. Lesley-Anne says:

      To be fair I suspect that the helicopter was one from the Met. Police. I understand they had received information, anonymously 😉 , that there was a HIGH level threat to intelligent broadcasting and to be on the look out for two questionable characters in the vicinity of Westminster green spouting shite! 😛

    57. Martin says:

      Luigi says:
      9 December, 2014 at 3:10 pm
      And what about the other 1.6 million of us – do they want us all to just die and disappear?

      Yes please, Jocko. And be quick about it too, see?

    58. The Rough Bounds says:

      ‘Then Caesar lolled on his ivory throne –
      His iron legions came,
      To break a king in a land unknown,
      And a race without a name.’

      Robert E. Howard. (The Song of Bran Mak Morn. The last Pictish king.)

      They won’t break Alex and they won’t break us, and by the end of May next year they WILL know our land and the name of our race.

    59. Helena Brown says:

      BtP so true, and Stoker am I right that this can only be caught by the Metropolitan elite ( or those who think they are).

    60. heedtracker says:

      It is such a really weird Tory Boy world, with Cameron begging Scotland “to stay” in run up to referendum Project Fear hysteria, because he loves Scotland but only some of us though. We want you to stay, not you though you can die, we want you to stay OO, but not you either, you’re a sep, we want you to stay but vote for blue tory and future Lord Eggs Murphy, he’s the man to save Blue Tory right to reign over you.

      If any Labour in Scotland voters are watching this…

    61. Robert Roddick says:

      Alex just keeps fighting for what he believes in. Now if only Britain had adopted such tactics during WW2!

    62. No no no...Yes says:

      The BBC have, on two occasions over the course of the last few days, been openly complicit in this BritNat hate-fest towards Alex Salmond.
      What exactly has he done wrong to deserve this? He had the bloody nerve to put forward his name as a candidate for a parliamentary election. This, in a country where we welcome free speech and encourage political diversity. Is this the Great Britain that our forefathers fought and died for? Oh, the irony!

      Alex Salmond has really got under their skin with this one. And yet:
      He hasn’t formally been adopted as the Gordon candidate
      He hasn’t even won the seat

      I fear that there will be much more of this bile against AS and NS. What these metropolitan luvvies don’t realise its that their vitriol will actually work against them. Most of us Jocks ain’t as daft as they think.

      Based on the recent antics of the MSM, anyone think that the SNP will get to take part in the televised Leader’s debates?

    63. Capella says:

      “Alex the Separator”

    64. BrianW says:

      I love how the BBC continually get newspaper hacks (i can’t use the word journalist as that would be an outright lie) to spout their opinion on their news.

      And that’s just it. It’s an opinion. There is no fact based in that opinion.

      The BBC seems more inclined to report spurious opinion that factual matters, and as they never tire of pointing out on their website – The BBC is not responsible for views from.. blah blah blah..

      They are c**ts at the BBC.. But then that’s just my opinion and in no way reflects the views of the hosting site on which I choose to air those views.

    65. Martin Wood says:

      So – if we say anything negative – we’re hateful cybernats

      If the BBC and Bitter Together wage what is essentially a campaign of personal abuse…

      it’s jounalism?

      The best we can hope for is a large SNP block to Westminster and watch the wheels come off in 2015

    66. frazer allan whyte says:

      Come on, be fair, there was more than a hint of jealousy there. These people have Cameron, Clegg and Milliband the lesser as their leaders – if they lose or disappear for even a short while the 2 Cs and the F minus will be utterly and thankfully forgotten – at lightning speed.

      Led by these to a degree cunning but visionless leaderlings, how do you think they feel when a leader actually takes responsibility for defeat by resigning, joins in the acclamation of a possibly even fiercer leader and then announces he is joining a horde of the “defeated” to take the battle inside the enemies gates. They can smell historical inevibility being made and the scent is not to their liking.

    67. Brian says:

      Brian Mr Salmond @ Westminster…….
      Wonderful news for Scotland, a brilliant politician right in
      the centre of Westminster. They will be held to answer in the
      future. N.Ireland was promised to set our own Corporation Tax
      probably at 12.5% so that the whole island will have an equal
      rate. It now has conditions on other matters nothing to do
      with the tax before it becomes law. Other politicians other
      than conservative and their friends labour need to be there WM
      to monitor the govt & Opposition. two of a kind

    68. Robert Llewellyn Tyler says:

      Something wrong with that woman’s neck?

    69. sandra says:

      They’re scared alright. The last thing those nest featherers want is someone telling it like it is. He’s worth more than the whole pathetic lot of them put together.

    70. Martin says:

      AS being at Westminster can only be a good thing for Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and the north of England. But…not for the only people who count, tax dodging London tories.

    71. trepurthereab says:

      And they wonder why 1.6 Million voted YES ? Where’s Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him ? Hurricane Alex will get them telt’

    72. Luigi says:

      Taranaich @ 4:04pm

      I have a feeling that in 2015, we will see a brand new model appear in 2015, with awesome firepower and capable of thriving in a hostile, Westminster environment.

      No prisoners will be taken.

    73. JBS says:

      Hang on, I’m confused. I’m now supposed to cheer on Skynet and the Daleks? If things carry on like this, will I be expected to start rooting for Darth Vader?

      Time to nip this in the bud. The Borg are evil, there’s no two ways about it. The Borg are evil because they are the LibLabCons.

      Resistance, however, is proving to be far from futile…

    74. X_Sticks says:

      Sorry, sorry, always O/T 🙂

      Some interesting reading from Electoral Calculus

    75. galamcennalath says:

      Has there been a poll asking the simple question “Should Scotland be an Independent Country?” in recent weeks?

      It was Y:N perhaps 55:45 on 5th Sept

      Then the flood of promises

      It was Y:N 45:55 on the big day

      The promises have been shown to be DevoFA. Federal Brown is a liar who’s gone into hiding. More austerity is on the way. WM is full of Tories Red & Yellow & Blue.

      So, Y:N now?

      If it hasn’t gone back over 50% yet, it will.

      Then watch all those smug MSM ba5tards squirm.

      Yea, tick tock tock

    76. Bob Sinclair says:

      Resistance is fertile.

    77. Stoker says:

      @ Helena, Re: Sphincteritis Clapidosis.

      Some of us believe it is hereditory, (deliberate sp),
      while others believe they are born with it.

      Very little is currently understood of the condition,
      outwith Unionist circles.

      What we do know, however, is that its rife throughout
      the Unionist communities and there seems to be no desire
      to take preventative measures against passing it on.

    78. Derick fae Yell says:

      Yesitis says: 9 December, 2014 at 3:13 pm

      “the average NO voter is much older than the average YES voter. They will disappear first.”

      I worked it out. Applying the mortality rates for the 65+ age group x cohort of the Scottish population over 65 x referendum turnout = just over 14,000 No voters depart this life each month, compared to around 5,000 Yes voters.

      Slow, but sure.

    79. Dan Huil says:

      OT: If you have a strong stomach or a wicked sense of humour check out the latest pleading from “confident and patriotic” Jim Murphy on
      It’s obvious Murphy believes he has won the leadership contest. Has he “checked” the postal votes already?

    80. Taranaich says:

      Always a pleasure to see another Howard fan, The Rough Bounds! Though I’d like to think Mr Salmond would be more successful than the tragic Bran Mak Morn, fated to be the last great king of the Picts…

    81. @The Rough Bounds
      “Kings of the Night, Worms of the Earth” some of Howard`s best.

    82. Clootie says:


    83. Lesley-Anne says:

      X_Sticks says:

      Some interesting reading from Electoral Calculus

      WOW X_Sticks.

      36 S.N.P. GAINS plus the original 6 S.N.P. seats out of a total of 59 seats!

      17 seats left to be fought out between the Communist party, sorry One Nation party sorry One party sorry Lib/Lab/Con/UKIP party! 😛

      If my maths are correct we end up with:

      1 Lib Dem

      3 Tories

      13 Labour

      Oh I think we are in for some REALLY interesting times ahead. 😀

    84. Graeme Doig says:

      “If you don’t want SNP politicians cluttering up your gin palace, stop campaigning against independence you muppets!”

      🙂 can i nominate this for the ‘short and sweet’ comment of the day

    85. X_Sticks says:


      Aye LA and there are a few othwer seats in there that may not be a safe as they think 😀

      Oh, and remember how they told us that Scotland could only be secure in the union? Well, this from the BBC website live feed:

      “16:39: Submarine sighting Jonathan Beale Defence correspondent, BBC News Britain had to call in the help of aircraft from the US, France and Canada following a reported sighting of a submarine periscope off the west coast of Scotland.

      The Ministry of Defence (MOD) will not confirm they were looking for a foreign submarine, but in a statement the MOD said it “requested assistance from allied forces for basing maritime patrol aircraft at RAF Lossiemouth for a limited period”. Britain no longer has any maritime patrol aircraft of its own.

      The sighting was reported late November and the search continued until the first week of this month.

      At the height of the hunt, two US Navy P-3 Orions, a Royal Canadian Airforce Aurora and a French Dassault Atlantique were involved in the search.”

      Aye, I feel so safe when we need baled out by the US, Canada and France because the union is fkd.

    86. Geoff Huijer says:

      Can you imagine the response if, say, Jim Sillars were
      to say on a live news item ‘Oh why doesn’t the Queen just die?’.

      There would be uproar & parliamentary questions and general hysterics.

      But it’s Alex Salmond they’re talking about so that’s ok then.

    87. David Finnie says:

      Wait for this Kirkup to complain that cybernats wish him death. And all the media will be reporting about how these disgusting these cybernats are!

    88. Clootie says:

      Lesley-Anne says:
      9 December, 2014 at 4:58 pm
      ..and x-sticks

      If you look at the Labour seat showing as “held” it is by a thin thread for many of them.

      I wonder just how comfortable Labour supporters are using Tory activists to support them.

    89. Willie Hogg says:

      What the London media, as well as several correspondents above, overlook is that though Yes “lost”,a No vote was no longer for the status quo but forDevo Max. So rather than 1.6 million supporting what Alex is trying to achieve (ie DevoMax), there are more like 2.5 million wishing him success!

    90. manandboy says:

      Shows some of the advantages of being on the front foot – catch the opponent off guard, unprepared, force him into an uncomfortable position.

      These are basic McTernan tactics – I just wish the Indy movement would learn from them.

      And then some.

    91. fred blogger says:

      you lost he says GO BACK IN YOUR BOX and be ruled like good little peasants.
      they’re still in denial, bless.
      our movement is not about one man nor the snp.
      this is not a synod, but a 1.6m++ peoples movement.
      popularity is now a curse and now we should all vote for who we don’t want, meaning that the least popular party is elected. doesn’t that make the least popular party popular, if we all vote for it??
      or are they calling the scottish people morons by implication, yes that’s it.
      we demand that you forget your big ideas of social justice and fair play for all.
      that you all lay before your imperial masters.
      please we beg you don’t come down to WM and disturb our lavish lifestyles.

    92. Lesley-Anne says:

      X_Sticks says:


      Aye LA and there are a few other seats in there that may not be a safe as they think 😀

      Clootie says:

      Lesley-Anne says:

      ..and x-sticks

      If you look at the Labour seat showing as “held” it is by a thin thread for many of them.

      Clootie and X_Sticks I thought that when I was doing my *ahem* sums. 😉

      Methinks there are more than a few extremely squeaky One Party bums on seats at this time. 😛

    93. Graeme Doig says:


      The trouble is muppets like these think that Scotland is just the northern part of their green and pleasant land and therefor Eck is a dangerous man.

      And they are right 🙂 He’s coming to eat you and your bairns! (metaphorically speaking of course. Wouldn’t want to offend)

    94. muttley79 says:

      No no no…Yes

      What exactly has he done wrong to deserve this?

      Challenged the British states’ rule over Scotland is the short answer.

    95. Grouse Beater says:

      The stench that is Westminster and pawns amount to only one thing – a hatred of democracy when it works against their warped ambitions.

      Don’t forget, the uneducated, the fearful, and the plain idiotic voted to allow morons such as Kirkup to utter fetid crap with impunity.

      He has 2.5 million people behind him … or so he presumes.

    96. Ericmac says:

      The establishment clearly see Salmond as the keystone to the independence campaign and the biggest single threat to the Union. Every cause needs a leader and a figurehead. And at the moment Salmond still represents a vision of a better future.

      He needs to watch his back. Helicopters are particularly prone to ‘accidents’.

      And don’t bother looking for my tinfoil hat. I don’t trust Westminster and the establishment. They will do whatever it takes to maintain this Union.

      In 1944, the partisans in Greece were caught by surprise when Churchill sided with the German Collaborators and the British Army shot a few demonstrators in Athens. Churchill preferred to see the German collaborators in power as a means to returning the Greek King. He thought the resistance fighters too close to communism.

      Oh my how the people are still surprised by the treachery and deceit of politicians.

    97. faolie says:

      I don’t normally swear in comments, but, jeez, what a wanker

    98. colin young says:

      1.6 mill terminators coming for this phony union..

    99. Dr Jim says:

      Just heard the BBC are extending their programming hours over the period of the General Election in order to more thoroughly report the proceedings, I think we all know what that’s about. Well we shall see…”I am Alex Salmond”

    100. shug says:

      The degree of hatred and venom from the unionist side makes me worried his polonium tea might be out.

      The BBC are leading the charge. Every morning the Tokyo Kay’s call in is entirely focused on how the Salmond led Scottish government are:

      • Reducing drink limit – an attack on our freedom
      • Causing large queues at A&E – and the doctor was mean to me
      • Introducing average speed cameras – attack on freedom
      • Alcohol pricing – I can’t remember their point on that

      This daily diet of anti Scottish government drivel delivered by the BBC

      If he were to have an “accident” they would declare a national holiday

    101. Kirsty says:

      I was going to put this on the Labour/Tory Girl thread but it probably makes as much sense here:

      The worst thing about things like this is that it’s like they’re viewing Scotland’s future like an “auld firm rivalry”; pick your team and then hope you beat the other side no matter what. It’s like it’s a game to them; they don’t seem to think about the issues in any meaningful way at all or care that we’re talking about things that will affect generations to come. They just want to beat the “other side”. They’re so deeply tribal that I don’t think they’d ever consider actually listening to the arguments with an open mind.

      Labour have been doing the “support your team no matter what” thing for years, where anything SNP/Not Them is bad just because it’s the “other side”. Lots of things, politically, have upset me since the referendum but this sort of thing always makes me feel just that bit worse; I don’t like feeling as though I’m fighting with my own people and Labour have been doing everything they can to turn this into a fight instead of a discussion. That’s yet another thing I’ll never forgive them for.

    102. Training Day says:

      The Telegraph buffoon is merely articulating official Labour Party policy.

      Mind when Stairheid voiced a desire that Salmond should fall under a bus?

    103. Lollysmum says:

      If election calculus continues to make these types of predictions there’s going to be a lot of squeaky bums slipping off the gravy train. Don’t feel sorry for them though-they’ll still get better pensions than you & I.

    104. Lesley-Anne says:

      I think I can see a new line in T-Shirts and Sweatshirts appearing somewhere near us quite soon.

      Forget the “I am Spartacus” line folks there is a new line in town and it is “I am Alex Salmond” 😛

    105. Bigdrone says:

      Is that a ventriloquist or a nodding donkey beside him?

      I cannot get over the vile, putrid hatred of a man who has not even been elected yet!

      British Nationalism at it’s rancid best

    106. Graeme Purves says:

      They really thought it was all over. For a few happy days in October, English academics were chirruping excitedly about the “post-Scotland devolution agenda”.

    107. velofello says:

      @ Derick Fae Yell: Aye thanks a bunch, as one in the category of 14,000 Seniors who “pass over” each month I will try to hang on so I can campaign and then vote SNP in May.

      Listening to Master Kirkup, ever considered how it must have been to be a citizen of India during the Raj with such chinless nonentities lording it? – You are a fine drummer Gunga Din, as a prince.

      During my various Middle East assignments, the locals, and workers from diverse countries, and me, did used to enjoy observing the English “maintain standards”, like wearing a tie in the blistering heat. My “foreigners” really enjoyed and identified with Braveheart – don’t cringe – and their response when we had some contractual difficulties would be “Boss, we fight?”

      It really is time we asserted ourselves. Speak, use and enjoy Scots and Gaelic. Celebrate our art and culture. In music jamming sessions folk will sing American and Irish folk songs but not Scots. ever wondered why? Oh and vote for independence candidates in the, hopefully, last UK General Election.

    108. ronnie anderson says:

      The Onions could have saved themselves ah lot of trouble they could have offered Alex Salmond the Stoat Coller if you dont ask you dont git & the gits dont git it yit,Alex is coming be afraid be very afraid BOO.

    109. Valerie says:

      FFS, these people are disgusting, and I agree, it is like hate crime, they are continually using this type of language, to bring it into everyday usage. Project Fear 2.0.

      When you think what people like Gideon and IDS, are subjecting the vulnerable of this country to, its an absolute disgrace, the way they speak of AS.

    110. Brian says:

      I think that’s what really gets me. They know they can say these things with impunity. In their eyes, we are the trailer trash of the UK.

    111. Andy-B says:

      Thankfully the drone of the helicopter, drowned out, erm… his drone.

    112. Kirsty says:


      They only do it because they’re scared witless. They know, probably better than most, just what a formidably great politician and leader he is – he’s respected worldwide and despite being FM since 2007 is still very popular in Scotland (a thing unheard of in their experience of WM). Since they’re scared and they know he’d win the arguments (because he’s telling the truth) they have no other option other than to try and demonise him. It’s a backhanded compliment.

      Now wait to see what they do with FM Sturgeon; they don’t have long before the next UK-wide election to do it and they’ll have to be careful not to be seen to be sexist about it but they’ll certainly try to convince people that she’s Satan’s bride or something. I think she was a surprise to them because I think they thought Alex Salmond would never stand down whilst so popular (no WM politician would). So they haven’t quite worked out their strategy against her but you can see it starting already. So I guess we won’t have time to get nostalgic for the “Salmond Accused” stories because we’ll have plenty of “Sturgeon Accused” stories to come.

    113. drawdeaddave says:

      They just don’t get it…

      Even if the man dies


    114. Albaman says:

      O/T Again stew, looks like we are indeed “better together”, well that’s if you include France, Canada , and the U.S.A., why?, well the M.O.D. Had to call these country’s aircraft in, to look for a possible submarine , as a periscope had been spotted off the west coast of Scotland,
      And of course we all remember seeing the Nimrods being broken up, ach you really could not make this up even for a child’s story book!,

    115. Croompenstein says:

      Where’s Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him ?

      But LHO didn’t shoot anyone, well not on the 22nd Nov 1963 anyway 🙂

      Their main focus will be on defeating Alex in the GE and will hopefully lead to them taking their eye of the ball elsewhere.
      Why can’t the union just die…

    116. Grouse Beater says:

      Kirkup is guilty of uttering hate language in a public place.

      Had he worn a tea towel on his head and sported a beard he’d be arrested for incitement.

    117. davidb says:

      The absolute last thing the Great Leader was going to do was resign and disappear. Nobody in Scotland would have been under any illusion about that. So the real criticism of the journo in the clip is that he has little grasp of the realities of politics here.

      As to the die comment. If I hadn’t watched the clip I would have taken umbridge. But Eck is not likely to run off crying. Perhaps we should all fuss about it and demand the journo’s suspension. After all its a heinous crime to burn a trashy report or send a picture of a white van in some places nowadays.

      I suspect it shows Eck is getting to them. Like Bruce’s spider. He does not give in. What an inspiration of a man.

    118. manandboy says:

      Alex Salmond’s declaration of intent to stand seems to have triggered Westminster’s DEFCON system to activate.

      DEFCON (short for “defense readiness condition”) scale is a measure of the level of alertness of the nation’s defence forces.
      The DEFCON scale uses a minimum of 5 (for normal peacetime status) and a maximum of 1 (for situations of global severity, like Alex Salmond advancing on London with his briefcase, like Scottish Independence or nuclear war).

      DEFCON Level Reference Guide[1]

      5 Normal peacetime readiness; Reason- The Scots are asleep.

      4 Increased intelligence-gathering and security measures;
      Reason – the Scots have woke up; someone said the Independence

      3 Armed forces readiness increased above normal levels;
      Air Force ready to mobilize in 15 weeks .
      Reason – SNP membership approaches 100,000;
      Labour opposition collapses; England defenceless along
      it’s northern border.

      2 High readiness; armed forces ready to deploy in six
      Reason – Labour forces wiped out in Scotland at GE15; WM leaders
      retreat to underground bunker to prepare for ground war.

      1 Maximum readiness; all forces ready for combat;
      Reason – Independence imminent or likely; trident nuclear
      submarines stationed somewhere near the Clyde – warheads
      armed. The PM Nigel Farage crosses the border at the head of
      the Armed Forces in 600 armoured troop carriers. He stops at
      Carlisle first for a pee, a pie and a pint with his fag.

    119. Iain says:

      X_Sticks says:

      Some interesting reading from Electoral Calculus

      I particularly like the result in the Gordon constituency! 🙂

    120. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for O/T here folks but apparently that extremely nice Labour Councillor Willie Young has apologised for his tweet about Mark MacDonald so every thing is okey dokey. Nothing to see here move along now! 😉

    121. Croompenstein says:

      @Kirsty – we’ll have plenty of “Sturgeon Accused” stories to come.

      This cracker caught my eye the other day, it was front page headline on Scottish Express. It has two of WoS favourite waste of space troughing MSP’s not missing a chance to have a wee dig as our FM is now responsible for mongooses farting

    122. handclapping says:

      As ever there’s a Python for this situation. In the Grail(?) there was an “I’m not dead yet” song. Appropriate as WM treats us as plague carriers 🙂

    123. John Young says:

      From the Torygraph comments
      A pretty little girl named Annie was sitting on the pavement in front of her home.
      Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.
      Suddenly a line of big cars pulled up beside her.
      Out of the lead car stepped a grinning man.
      “Hi there little girl, I’m Ed Miliband.
      What do you have in the basket?” he asked.
      “Kittens,” little Annie said.
      “How old are they?” asked Miliband.
      Annie replied, “They’re so young, their eyes aren’t even open yet.”
      “And what kind of kittens are they?”
      “Labour supporters,” answered Annie with a smile.
      Miliband was delighted.
      As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.
      Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two of them agreed that he should return the next day;
      and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.
      So the next day, Annie was again on the pavement with her basket of “FREE KITTENS,”
      when Milliband’s motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from BBC, ITV, ABC, CNN and Sky News,
      Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Miliband got out of his limo and walked over to little Annie.
      “Hello, again,” he said, “I’d love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you’re giving away.”
      “Yes sir,” Annie said. “They’re SNP supporters.”
      Taken by surprise, Ed stammered, “But…but…yesterday, you told me they were LABOUR SUPPORTERS.”
      Little Annie smiled and said, “I know.
      But today, they have their eyes open.”

    124. Ross-L says:

      How fitting of them to use the terminator analogy….Arnie (Alex) was seen as the bad guy until the realisation sunk in that he was actually trying to save us from a self inflicted westminster implosion…judgement day will still come….

      Will he be back? Bloody right he is!!

    125. Lenny Hartley says:

      X_Sticks, great stuff from the electoral Calculus, however I hae my doubts, hopefully my pessimism is proved wrong and we do make all those gains, but I cant help but think that the actual results although better than ever before, will allow the other side to claim that our bubble has burst.

      Lets hope not.

    126. handclapping says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      We only have to pass 11 to claim better than ever 🙁

    127. heedtracker says:

      How’s that safety and security in the teamGB working out proud Scot buts? What a bloody farce and all thanks to our imperial masters in London.

    128. Lollysmum says:

      John Young -that’s brilliant-thanks

      manandboy-If it gets to DefCon 2 I’m coming up there to join you all 🙂 Not missing that for anything!

    129. clochoderic says:

      On the subject of Westminster, is this Britain’s wackiest election?

      2 hereditary crossbench peers have died and are to be replaced by a vote by their, erm, peers.

      There are 18 candidates and 28 electors – some of their supporting statements are laugh out loud stuff, one chap even tells us he played rugger for the first XV. One guy called L Sempill fancies himself to be just the ticket to sort out the constitutional crisis in Scotland.

      Read those CVs and weep, Lord Ffoulkes!

    130. liz says:

      I think this is a statement that should be taken seriously.

      Are we as usual just supposed to shut up and accept it?

      There are enough BritNats out there who don’t need much winding up, you should see some of the responses from them on twitter if you disagree with their love of the UK.

      Historywomen – said the UK needs to be maintained no matter what.

      If something, god forbid, happen to AS that eejit Kirkup should be held responsible

    131. IAB says:

      The problem for them is that if he did die, the reaction would be so powerful that Sturgeon could declare UDI with 80%+ support. I’m sure his life has been investigated thoroughly and there are no skeletons to expose. He is a hugely successful leader. There’s no way of beating him.

    132. Kirsty says:


      That is a cracker. I knew it’d be good as soon as I saw the “rock star” t-shirts bit at the start and it didn’t disappoint! The best bit was the irony of the Tory talking about the “bounds of taste”. Loved it.

    133. Effigy says:

      It seems that all colours of Tory had to surf the Net to find outrage in a video of 3 councilors burning some paper in a bin.
      How about the BBC Propaganda machine broadcasting a Death Wish
      on one of the most honorable politicians the country has ever had?
      The National needs to ensure that these stories are carried on a daily basis. The Telegraph and the BBC live happily in the sewers.

    134. Derek Cameron says:

      News tonight :Big burd smirk over wave power company problems and laughs at the Saudi Arabia of renewables aspirations

    135. Wee Jonny says:

      Someone posted on here just after Alex’s resignation speech “I AM ALEX SALMOND” and the thought of having that on a thousand t.shirts and standing in front of that dooshbag after asking why he isn’t dead would be priceless. Who’s in?

    136. Jim says:

      Why not see if the National will run with the story of how this scumbag wishes death on Alex Salmond. Absolutely disgusting thing to say so let’s see the colour of the National’s money!

    137. Lollysmum says:

      Andy Wightman takes Daily Fail to task on Nicola & Sovereign Grant article. Doesn’t mince his words.

    138. sinky says:

      Channel Four news featuring post ref rise of snp and what can labour do to stem the tide. On sometime before 7.50. Now dealung with US waterboarding

    139. Macart says:

      These WM centric morons really don’t get it yet and right about now my store of sympathy and understanding is completely used up.

      From that bigoted halfwit Stanley who couldn’t tell the difference between a referendum and an election to Mr Kirkup’s appalling wittering in the piece ATL they still haven’t spotted the ‘bleedin’ obvious’.

      Alex Salmond isn’t driving the UK toward separation and never was, they are and people just like them.

      The arrogance, the condescension, the lack of empathy, understanding or humility. That self centred, tunnel-visioned sense of big smoke, fucking entitlement. The sense that nothing and no one outside of their bubble matters. It can’t be important its somewhere else or it can’t be important because its someone else. Who cares what they think they’re only… (fill in people, group, politics, religion to suit).

      We so need to rattle their cosy wee world next year, for so long as the usual feeble forty get sent down, this attitude toward Scotland, its people, politics and culture won’t change. These pricks need reminded that so long as this union lasts, then they’re in a partnership and you never, but never take your partner for granted.

    140. Jim says:

      He needs to watch his back.
      I seriously think he does indeed. Remember the suspicion surrounding the death of William Macrae.

    141. Martin Wood says:

      I want an “I am ALEX SALMOND” T-Shirt

      Can we have his head photoshopped on top of Kirk Douglas’ Body?

    142. kendomacaroonbar says:


      I’ve been busily ploughing away with a magazine project that has been launched last week.

      We are a grass roots funded team that offers a Pro Scotland Magazine which is Free of Charge.

      If you like it, support us, if not, then no loss to you.

      Thanks for allowing this post Stu

      Yours aye Kendo

    143. Paula Rose says:

      So – am I right in thinking that the largest left of centre party in the UK after the next GE could well be the SNP?

    144. Listening to Sky News this morning a reporter referred to Kate, on her trip to the US, as the “Future Queen of England” Do you think this an omen or just another derogatory remark?

    145. David Agnew says:

      The reason? They’re scared shitless of him. Despite everything they threw at him, he keeps coming back. Despite winning, they act like losers. They act like losers because deep down they know they didn’t win anything. They just got to keep this wretched union going for a wee while longer. They’re scared that they didn’t do enough to settle it for a couple years, let alone a generation. Deep down they’re scared shitless.

      So they keep acting like victims. They keep portraying the UK as a victim under the banner of Better together.

      UK? OK?


    146. Dr Jim says:

      First they told us there was no one on the Grassy Knoll, they said Artificial Sweeteners were safe, they said Anna Nicole married for love, that’s the Establishment for you, DYA BELIEVE EM , WELL, DO YA…I am Alex Salmond…

    147. Steven Roy says:

      James Kirkup needs to learn that it’s not just Alex Salmond who won’t go away. The whole Yes movement will never go away.

    148. msean says:

      Can’t believe he actually said that he wants Alex Salmond to die,even as a joke ffs. I think that should just about guarantee Alex Salmonds return as an MP.

      Perfectly entitled to stand as a UK citizen,shouldn’t have helped out the naysayers if you didn’t want him to return. He (and we) aren’t going away,did they actually think we would lol? Establishment fear,that’s what it is.

    149. Grouse Beater says:

      Have composed angry hard copy letter to Telegraph editor demanding he reprimand Kirkup. Will mail tomorrow.

      More news when I have it …

    150. manandboy says:

      The English think that Scotland can be sorted and put back the way it was.

      We, meanwhile, have passed the tipping point beyond which things can never be the same again.

      An immovable English object against an irresistible Scottish force.

      I think we need a few more to join the force.

    151. CameronB Brodie says:

      Wee Jonny
      “AND SO IS MY WIFE” on the back. 🙂

    152. caz-m says:

      England is crying out for a Centre Left Party. I believe that Alex Salmond and his fellow SNP MPs will give England the shake up that it has been needing.

      Cities like Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle are fertile ground for planting left of centre ideas. Alex Salmond and the SNP will be only to glad to assist in putting them there.

    153. muttley79 says:


      Why not see if the National will run with the story of how this scumbag wishes death on Alex Salmond. Absolutely disgusting thing to say so let’s see the colour of the National’s money!

      I wonder hazard a guess and say the National would be following a unionist agenda. Why should the National report what all these trolls in the MSM think and say? The only thing they are achieving is letting us all know they are shitting themselves.

    154. robertknight says:

      So Willie Rennie in the P&J demands that NS distance herself from the ‘Clunking Fist should be told to Foxtrot Oscar’ petition instigated by the Rev C; who whether he likes it or not is a form of journo and nothing to do with the SNP.

      Will the Rennie/P&J now demand that Milliband distance himself from the comments of another journo who, speaking in the context of reaction at Labour Party HQ to the likely return to the Commons of AS, poses the question “Why won’t he (AS) just die?”

      So come on guys, prove to the world you’re not the sack of mealy-mouthed, lying, two-faced unmentionables that we know and love you for.

    155. Kirsty says:

      Talking of left of centre parties; I had a great conversation with a guy who owns a small business in my neck of the woods just after the Ref. He’s a Yes voter too and we were commiserating with each other and then he blew me away when he said, “Funny thing, I’ve always thought of myself as a centrist, never a left winger, but politics has changed so much in the last 10, 15 years. I haven’t changed my opinions at all but now I feel like I’m some kind of left wing fundamentalist!”

      It made me think for the first time in a long time about the whole political spectrum. I think he was bang on – politics in the UK has shifted wildly to the right. I would have always said I was centrist but now I’m undoubtedly “left wing” simply because the political spectrum has shifted and left me behind. The “centre” in the UK, judging from the actions of the Tories, Lib Dems and Labour, now seems to be something between Scrooge and pre-WWII Germany.

      It’s got me wondering if we should change our language to reflect reality and stop allowing the press and the UK political parties to pretend that they haven’t gone so far to the right.

    156. Tamson says:

      Christopher Eccleston is one of the most talented actors of his generation, and by all accounts a genuinely nice guy who does tons of charity work. He’s also strongly committed to social justice: if the stories are to be believed, he quit Doctor Who after only a year because he didn’t like the way the filming crew were being taken a loan of by the producers.

      The comparison with Jim Murphy couldn’t be more stark.

    157. CameronB Brodie says:

      Can AS stand in Croydon? 🙂

    158. caz-m says:

      Here is a picture for your twitter account. It’s Red Tory Jim Murphy campaigning with Blue Tory Jackson Carlaw and others.

      Notice how comfortable Murphy looks being pictured with the Tories and the Union Jacks.

      I don’t think this picture will be going up in the Celtic Boardroom walls any time soon.

    159. Lesley-Anne says:

      James D says:

      Doesn’t this come under the new Hate Crimes law?

      That is a very interesting question James. I think the very first sentence draws up one or two points to consider. In my, totally unedumated legal view, I’d say that “malice and ill-will towards a social group”, in this case Scots and/or independence supporters, is one avenue worthy of further legal consideration. The other view I’d say that was worth looking at is the idea of hate crime against race in this case us Scots. 😉

      Hate crime involves any criminal offence motivated by malice and ill-will towards a social group. Hate crime can be motivated by disability, sexual orientation, race, religion or faith.

    160. Brian Nicholson says:

      Alex…. the Erminator…..Lords and ladies beware he will not stop.

    161. Marcia says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Yes, if he stands still.

    162. Wee Jonny says:

      I’m liking the thought of the I AM ALAEX SALMOND t.shirts (can the person who invented the slogan please step forward). Black t.shirt with white writing????

    163. cearc says:


      Looking good, eh?

      Gordon looks ok but a bit sloppy compared with
      Na h-Eileanan An Iar.

    164. cearc says:

      James D,

      The ‘crime’ appears to have taken place in London, so Scottish law would not apply.

      I’ve no idea about the English law but would be willing to bet that even if it was covered the DPP would rule against prosecution.

    165. Cuilean says:

      ‘Why won’t he just die?’

      There’s just one answer to that: ~

      Why won’t ‘Better Together’ just keep their promises & give us Devomax?

    166. Graeme Doig says:

      Wee Jonny

      Would it not be Alex Salmond who invented ‘I am Alex Salmond”.

      I’m runnin oot ay coats 🙂

    167. Lesley-Anne says:

      cearc says:

      James D,

      The ‘crime’ appears to have taken place in London, so Scottish law would not apply.

      There might be one way round your point cearc and that is that his “hate” was broadcast on National television i.e. BBC. Whilst the perpetrator himself is physically in London his “hatred” was beamed into people’s homes in Scotland by a complicit BBC. Just a wee thought outside the box. 😉

    168. cearc says:


      I did think of that but I think it would probably be a waste of public money to try it.

    169. Alex Clark says:

      It’s all about Labour and the traditional Labour vote isn’t it?

      Who cares, up to 40% of their vote abandoned them at the referendum and none of them are coming back. Of the 60% left? Well at least half will move over to the Indie side if they can be shown that Labour are the Red Tories.

      For a great many their hatred of the Tory party far exceeds that of the SNP.

      Do you know a Labour supporter, one who votes Labour no matter the policies? Then open their eyes, target them, show them the truth about the Jim Murphies and Milliband’s of this world.

      Don’t waver, this is your most important job, like the kittens open their eyes and Labour is doomed.

      Labour will die in Scotland well before Alex Salmond, we can make that happen. Hence their fear.

    170. Cuilean says:

      ‘Why won’t he just die?’

      One answer: ~

      Why won’t ‘Better Together’ just stop lying?

    171. Lesley-Anne says:

      cearc says:


      I did think of that but I think it would probably be a waste of public money to try it.

      Oops, sorry I should have known better. 😛

    172. Katie says:

      So…wait a minute… can burn a nonsensical silly leaflet and get suspended from you party but its alright to wish someone dead live on the BBC!! WTF?!!

    173. SquareHaggis says:


      Christopher Eccleston from the movie Strumpet

      Out F’s Morpheus any day

    174. Balaaargh says:

      I’m liking this T-shirt idea.

      Headshot on the front with slogan on the back or the other way about?

    175. De Valera says:

      @ ronald russell

      I have always been annoyed by refernces to “the Queen of England” etc, then again the royals themselves adopt English titles so they must have nothing to do with us.

      I was taught this by a friend of my dads when I was young, (why I chose my name).
      Under Mr de Valera, Ireland changed its name to Eire,
      But Britain never changed its name,
      It’s still called England just the same.

      Why should Mr Salmond, or any of us go away?
      The Lib Dems and their Liberal predecessors have been rejected by the electorate for nearly a hundred years and no one is suggesting that they disappear. (Well actually I am, but let’s pretend I’m not).
      The unionist moved the goalposts in the closing stages of the referendum. It would have been the same if Alex Salmond had said a Yes vote wouldn’t mean full independence, just complete home rule.

    176. cearc says:


      I think that you’re right. The Libs have all already destroyed themselves.

      I think constituency leaflets. ‘Your Lab rep’ with picture of Lab prospective hugger-mugger with a Tory or worse (plenty around from no thanks) and a list of their voting record on key votes would go down a treat.

      Scottish voters are not renowned for being very forgiving.

    177. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve just watched that horrid Mr Kirkup again and had a wee thought about *ahem* our T-Shirt idea currently circulating on here.

      Instead of just “I am Alex Salmond” how about expanding the phrase just a tad to say something like this possibly with a photo of Alex in the middle. 😉

      “Dear Mr. Kirkup

      I am Alex Salmond!”

    178. Dr Ew says:

      I don’t know if the SNP Press Office ever follow up these vicious and nasty comments the BBC is so happy to broadcast, but they should. While making the case on hardball/softball questioning, tone of voice, repetition of unionist tropes etc. is a more complex challenge, I’d suggest it is in their interest to complain and keep on complaining about wilfully offensive remarks – and to publicise the correspondence. The BBC might be able to weasel out a denial of its more nuanced propaganda but when they constantly give airtime to such verbal abuse they should be called on it. It would at least put them on notice they are being called on this stuff – what other contemporary politician has to put up with such a nakedly aggressive narrative from our impartial national broadcaster?

      Incidentally, I clicked on the iScot link and was encouraged by the short trailer. Especially liked Greg Moodie talking about how satisfying it is to cancel your TV licence. Indeed, Greg!

    179. donald anderson says:

      Reply to caz-m
      Spot the Tory twin.

    180. Bob Mack says:

      Slightly O/T.
      My neighbour had a visit today from a representative of IPSOS/MORI, conducting a poll into B.B.C. bias. He would not say who commissioned the poll, but he sure got a strong opinion from my neighbour. Anyone any ideas who is commissioning such polls?

    181. keaton says:

      Can you imagine the response if, say, Jim Sillars were
      to say on a live news item ‘Oh why doesn’t the Queen just die?’

      That would be a bit different, though. I know Kirkup is a horrible Torygraph/Hootsmon hack and everything, but it’s pretty clear he was referring to the death of Salmond’s career, not his actual physical demise.

    182. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry for going O/T but thought folks might like to see this.

      I think this should get *ahem* filed under the heading of “We are FEART so we will stop those nasty cybernats from advertising anything to do with the General Election in May 2015!” 😛

    183. Graeme Doig says:

      Alex Clark @ 8.47

      Well said.

      One by one we influence folk with the truth (msn not going to do it).

    184. Marie clark says:

      Alex Clark, as I said on the other thread, I know just the Labour voter. Aye votes for them , faither aye voted Labour, you know the sort. He hates the blue tories with a passion so this will not go down well with him.

      God knows they all need to open their eyes,they don’t seem to care these proud scots but. They’ll learn the hard way, unfortunately so will the rest of us.

    185. Graeme Doig says:

      Lesley-Anne @ 9.33pm

      I scrolled down the twitter feed and noticed someone stating that Argyll and Bute Council had banned (in some form) saltires. Nonsense?

      Anyone know?

    186. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Lesley Anne. Window posters there,ll be mair than window posters in Nth Lanarkshire, weil in Airdrie & surounding villages,did you know I had a sleep disorder,sheeesh there,s flys on the walls.

    187. thomaspotter2014 says:

      On the ‘I AM ALEX SALMOND’ T-shirts could we put that on one side and ‘UNION TERMINATOR’ on the other. lol.

    188. caz-m says:

      Lesley-Anne 9.33pm

      They’ll be banning public meetings next.

      During the referendum campaign, Labour led Renfrewshire Council had special squads in vans who went round the streets in the middle of the night taking down all YES material from lampposts etc.

    189. Lesley-Anne says:

      Graeme Doig says:

      Lesley-Anne @ 9.33pm

      I scrolled down the twitter feed and noticed someone stating that Argyll and Bute Council had banned (in some form) saltires. Nonsense?

      Anyone know?

      According to this from the BBC Graeme it appears that the S.N.P. lost control of the council to a coalition of independent councillors and Tory councillors. I think this may explain what is happening regarding Saltires. 😉

      ronnie anderson says:

      @ Lesley Anne. Window posters there,ll be mair than window posters in Nth Lanarkshire, weil in Airdrie & surounding villages,did you know I had a sleep disorder,sheeesh there,s flys on the walls.

      I sympathise with you Ronnie and your *ahem* fly trouble. 😛

      They may have banned posters etc but they can NOT stop you having posters on your car. Jeez during the referendum the only windows that we could see out of were the windscreen and the two front side windows, driver and front passenger. Every other window on the Jeep, five in total, was plastered, quite literally, with posters. 😛

    190. Morag says:

      God I am so embarrassed by this thread. I can’t see what’s so offensive about that clip. First, the journalist is asked to tell the viewers about “the reaction at Labour HQ” to the news that Salmond is standing for Westminster. He’s not even remotely giving his own opinion, whatever that might be, he’s giving his impression of just how headless the Labour chickens are behaving.

      Then, the “offensive” line. “The reaction on the unionist side of politics, as basically why, why won’t this man die?” He’s obviously using a videogames metaphor, as Stu implies with his Terminator caption. He’s portraying Salmond as the adversary that gets up and comes back at you again, every time you think you’ve killed it. It’s almost flattering in a way.

      I kept hearing how James Kirkup had wished Salmond dead on live TV, and wondered what on earth had happened. If I’d heard that when it was broadcast, straight up, I’d have laughed. It’s amusing, if anything, and it certainly has a subtext of respect for Salmond’s unstoppability.

      There are far more offensive things on TV (and radio) than this. This sort of quip wasn’t why I cancelled my TV licence. I think some people need to get a wee bit of a sense of perspective here.

    191. Croompenstein says:

      @Wee Jonny – Someone posted on here just after Alex’s resignation speech “I AM ALEX SALMOND” 😀

    192. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Cameron Brodie 8.11 Naw nae Croyden. The Eliphant n Castle
      Alex is gonna be the Eliphant in the room onnyhow at Westminster, he might as well be the King o the Castle as well.
      To cauld tae go oot, back under the bed then.

    193. Lesley-Anne says:

      caz-m says:

      Lesley-Anne 9.33pm

      They’ll be banning public meetings next.

      During the referendum campaign, Labour led Renfrewshire Council had special squads in vans who went round the streets in the middle of the night taking down all YES material from lampposts etc.

      The banning of public meetings would not surprise me in the slightest Caz. With regards to the *ahem* nightly activities of said council is also, alas, not a surprise to me.

      Labour think they still have the right to control what people see, what they read and what they hear!

    194. Stoker says:

      Right, before i say this i want to state clearly that i am in no way defending these obnoxious ignoramuses.

      Over the last 2 days on here i’ve seen plenty posts condemning this cretins words but have only seen 2 posts actually stating they have done something about it – Grouse Beater & AyeAlba.

      I personally wish them every success in their complaint efforts but i don’t think anything will get done about it because if you listen to the clip – he is asked his opinion what he thinks Labour HQ will be thinking about the news of Alex Salmond deciding to stand.

      He then goes on to say what he did but he says something along the lines of ‘the same as everyone on the Unionist side in politics, why won’t he die?’

      That’s exactly how they’ll attempt to justify his comments.

      I actually believe something just as bad has managed to slip under the radar unnoticed.

      When this piece of garbage says what he says you can hear someone stifling their laughter.

      I’ve watched the clip many times but still can’t determine if it was the pathetic bint in the clip or one of them in the BBC studio.

      If it came from the studio and it was the presenter, she should be sacked immediately for unprofessional conduct. If it was one of the 2 ersewipes sitting with the presenter i think we have a right to know which one of these clowns has the mentality of a child.

      Maybe it would be more appropriate if someone in the media attempted to establish Labour HQ’ thoughts on the matter and if they agreed with Mr.Fuckup’s “thoughts.”

      I wonder if one of our skilled letter writers here on WOS could elicit a response from them on this matter?

      If they don’t respond its extremely bad publicity and doesn’t look too good on them, especially if they don’t condemn his “thoughts” in their name.

      If they do respond strongly condemning his “thoughts” then it discredits Mr.Fuckup and paints him for what he is – a nasty, vile and hate-filled individual.

    195. John Thomson says:

      @thomaspotter2014 Alex Salmond on front and Honey I’m back on the back of the T shirt would be brill

    196. Roll_On_2014 says:

      This may not be every bodies cup of tea but I rather like this graphic from the independent.

      Alex Salmond Feast your eyes, I’m on my way.

      I can just imagine Alex crapping all over them from a dizzy height.

    197. keaton says:

      In fairness, I don’t think the post was claiming it was particularly offensive, and most of the comments don’t either. Of course a few folk are taking it all embarrassingly seriously, but the ratio isn’t high.

    198. Morag says:

      No, the post isn’t claiming it’s offensive, but an awful lot of the comments seem to have had a metaphor bypass and be calling for the guy to be sacked and so on. It’s frequently been described as “hate speech”, which is ridiculous.

      Now we’ve got a poster saying someone should be sacked for laughing at the comment. Well I’d have laughed too. The image of Salmond as the unkillable zombie from hell, in the minds of the unionist politicos, was genuinely funny I thought.

    199. Morag says:

      It’s not actually all that far removed from the “If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine” graphics that were being passed around the independence supporters.

      Lighten up a bit guys for goodness sake.

    200. Luigi says:

      Margaret Curran is still waiting for Alex Salmond to be run over by a bus (and she won’t ask who did it).

      Watch out, Alex, there are lots of nasty big red buses in London.

    201. Morag says:

      Now that was an extremely unpleasant comment with no redeeming features whatsoever.

    202. Graeme Doig says:

      Thanks LA.

      I presume they are only flying the union flag at cooncil offices in protest at having to live in this outpost of their beloved england.
      I’m fair scunnered wi the the fight we have on our hands just to get to day one of an independant Scotland. The time and money that is now being wasted when we could have been on the road to changing our country.
      These onionists fair rub me up the wrong way.

    203. Natasha says:

      I’m just conducting a private countdown until Morag’s two greatest fans crawl out of the woodwork.

    204. Morag says:

      Somebody linked the the Electoral Calculus page. It’s been like that for at least a couple of weeks actually. However you should have seen the previous version. In that, the SNP actually unseated Mundell!

    205. keaton says:

      Now we’ve got a poster saying someone should be sacked for laughing at the comment.

      Yes, well, I’d happily stick that in the “embarrasing” column, but that kind of post is still in the minority.

    206. Morag says:

      Yeah, Natasha, I’m wary of posting anything that goes against the groupthing on these threads, these days. But it’s only the internet. The ones doing it aren’t the people who come to the Wings meeting, and certainly not the people who kindly put the Wings badge and patch through my letterbox yesterday while I was at work. That was a kind gesture.

      But really, I’m gobsmacked by the literal interpretations of what was clearly a metaphorical comment. Indeed, if it followed another comment likening Salmond to a “zombie who just keeps on powering through to the end of the horror movie” as Stuart said, it’s kind of obvious.

      Independence supporters would no doubt prefer the Obi-Wan Kenobi version, rather than the unkillable zombie, but it’s still a valid metaphor and it’s still actually quite funny in context. The idea of Labour sitting there gazing in horror as the creature from the tomb gets up and staggers towards them yet again, broadsword in hand, is surely worth a giggle.

    207. donald anderson says:

      Westminster hasn’t been the same since Godzilla bent Big Ben.

    208. Morag says:

      Yes, well, I’d happily stick that in the “embarrasing” column, but that kind of post is still in the minority.

      I admit I wasn’t actually keeping a strict count, but there were enough of them that my toes were curling by half way down the thread. I kept waiting for someone to say, hang on a minute, but there wasn’t much of that.

    209. liz g says:

      @ronnie anderson 9.48pm Must be sumthin in the North Lanarkshire watter Ronnie cause me in aw my family ir hivin the same fly trouble is you.

    210. ronnie anderson says:

      Mc Ternan on STV Milliband is a leader like Thatcher & Attlee,
      rite yous lot who telt Mc Ternan aboot ma buzzing Talcum Powder,ah stopped ordering bacon rolls in cafes because of the fecker.

    211. JBS says:

      @Bob Sinclair

      Like it. Could be a good line to use in reply whenever one of the apparently smug but at the same time obviously fearful hard-line unionists pops up and tells us that we lost and we should get over it.

    212. liz says:

      @Morag – you may well be embarrassed but I am furious.

      There are enough nutters out there who will think yeah, I agree with this statement.

      Can you imagine the OUTRAGE if Nicola Sturgeon had said something similar about Jim Murphy.

      This is not just a comment to be dismissed – you maybe live in a more ‘civilised’ area than I do but I think it’s could be thought of as an incitement to violence.

      I know in the past you are very dismissive of folk who disagree with you but this time I couldn’t disagree with you more if I tried

    213. Bob Mack says:

      Why let the truth spoil a good inference? Several weeks ago I would have agreed with everything you say, but I have watched National media manipulate, confabulate, extrapolate, and even downright lie to create an unfair image which suited their objective of besmirching the Yes side of the referendum. I am not now as willing as yourself to set records straight. ,but rather think of myself as being armed with the same weapons as my opponent. I am not twisted or immoral, just a little bit wiser now

    214. Morag says:

      It’s a free country, disagree all you like, but I think you’re completely misreading the tone and the intent.

    215. liz says:

      @ Morag – And BTW I totally object to your use of the word groupthink. AKA known as anyone who disagrees with me.

    216. davidb says:

      Re North Koreashire attempts to thwart democracy. T-shirts can be bought cheaply. Especially in bulk. Weather might be tolerable by May. Self printed T-shirts are easy and cheap to do. 337 thousand people live in NL. So that should be 5 or 6 thousand members of the Party. That’s a lot of advertising space 🙂 .

      I read that in some places where free speech is not encouraged banknotes are defaced. Not that I would ever condone civil disobedience!

      Then there’s badges, handbills, all those members doing the rounds. I was so so impressed by the facebook. youtube and twitter stuff our young people produced. A few naked lampposts would just spark creativity for sure.

    217. Morag says:

      Bob, I just think this one is crying wolf. If people take exaggerated offence over a mildly amusing metaphorical comment, it’s likely to detract from the impact of genuine offence when something genuinely offensive is said. Like Mags Curran and her “hit by a bus” remark.

    218. msean says:

      Had another watch,he is asked for his opinion of Labour HQs possible views,not his own views on Alex.

    219. liz says:

      @ Morag – you appear to think you are the only true winger on here. I have been to the group meet at the Counting House and like you have trod the streets leafleting,, campaigning etc.

      So please stop being so dismissive of other people’s way of thinking – it comes across as arrogance.

    220. Morag says:

      Liz, I actually typed “groupthing”, but you’re quite right, it was a mistake. You read what I meant, not what I typed.

      There is a groupthink on these threads. I don’t always disagree with it, but I’m always aware of it.

    221. Morag says:

      Liz, as predicted. I’ve expressed my opinion. You’ve disagreed. I’ve declined to back down. This is now being portrayed as “arrogance”.

      Well sorry I’m not going to pretend to agree with you when I don’t, and if refusing to change my mind and agree with you is arrogance then so be it.

    222. Jim says:

      Hiding behind a metaphor does not negate what this muppet said.

    223. Morag says:

      Had another watch,he is asked for his opinion of Labour HQs possible views,not his own views on Alex.

      Yes. He specifically says, “The reaction on the unionist side of politics…” And then he continues the theme introduced before the clip starts, of the unkillable zombie powering on to the end of the movie.

      It’s not fall-down funny, but it genuinely raised a smile on me.

    224. pete the camera says:

      Those that voted YES did so with conviction, sadly the one’s that voted NO need convicted, for a lack of belief in themself and the Scottish people that is why you hear so little from the NO side apart from the Westminster Loving media plant’s

    225. Clydebuilt says:

      news on the streets is that Stair Heid is backing Skelator ……Should be the kiss of death, for any normal politico.

    226. liz says:

      @Morag – I’m not asking you to back down.

      I am expressing my own opinion but you then led with ‘groupthink’ which suggests we are some kind of mindless group.

      I have my opinion but would never dream of accusing people who disagree with me as being outside or part of a group.

      Whether you mean it or not it comes across as dismissive – as if your opinion is superior to mine.

      Honestly I think you are being naïve but would never accuse you of being part of a group thinking with one mind, I accept it as YOUR opinion so kindly stop accusing me of group thinking.

    227. R-type Grunt says:

      @ Morag

      Maybe you’re right and this is something to be laughed over but some of are sick to the back teeth of being continually branded as fucking Nazis while the real Nationalists in this game smugly get on with sacking our country for all they can bloody grab! And doing it with the consent of at least 50% of our countrymen to boot! This must change!

    228. Morag says:

      My concern is that if a mildly amusing and clearly metaphorial comment like this is going to be met with wall-to-wall outrage and calls for people to lose their jobs, where do we go when something genuinely outrageous is said, and who will listen to us then?

    229. Chic McGregor says:

      What Wings meeting? Has Wings become a clique? Why does it need that kind of groupthink?

      But most important of all, are Xword discussions not allowed even on Off Topic? If so that is serious.

    230. Morag says:

      And you know plenty genuinely outrageous things are being said and I’m as sick as everyone else of being called a Nazi and a virus and a disease and a fascist and a death eater and all the rest of it.

      I just think we should save the outrage and the calls for resignation for these things, not this piece of flummery.

    231. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Morag ( broadsword in hand),it Alex Salmond should that no be a Claymore.

      and its the muppet at Kirkups side who’s stifling a laugh for those who,think its camera crew.

      Morag you need a skippy cap for your embassador badge.

    232. liz says:

      @Morag – that’s the point – I do think it’s outrageous.

      How do you know he meant it to be ‘amusing and CLEARLY metaphorical’?

      You are putting your own interpretation on what he said, you don’t know what he was thinking.

      There are nutters out there not everyone will see this as metaphorical.

    233. Clootie says:

      Posts are getting a bit tetchy these days!!!

      I think people have a right to be angry about media manipulation on behalf of the union.

      It is easy to dismiss it or label it an over reaction. I think everyone should respect the individuals anger and resentment.

      The important thing is to continue to work towards building a better nation. The positive thing for me is that most who are fighting for this change will probably see little personal benefit from it as the change will take decades to evolve.Isn’t it refreshing to see people thinking of those to come instead of self interest.

      People are still angry. Some will take much longer than others to come to terms with the lost opportunity. Telling someone to “lighten up” or “calm down” is probably the worst thing you can do.

      Stop throwing rocks at each other and remember what this is about – the most vulnerable in society / the next generation.

      YES was about what we had in common.

      A little more respect for the views of others would be nice.

    234. Morag says:

      I think it’s obvious. I think it would be a good idea if people listened to what he actually said, though it’s not as clear as it might be.

      You don’t have to agree, but I just couldn’t sit here any longer and not put forward the alternative point of view. I think anyone coming to this thread from outside the bubble would be thinking, for goodness sake, why is everyone being so literal-minded and taking such offence?

    235. Thepnr says:


      I agree, there is though no harm in disagreeing. In fact that’s a positive. We are not sheep and have differing opinions. I welcome that.

      We may be diverse but have the same goal. That will do for me.

    236. Morag says:

      Ronnie, you’re right I did mean a claymore.

      I tried the patch on the hat I was wearing but it didn’t fit. Not enough room. I’ll have to think of somewhere else to sew it.

    237. Lesley-Anne says:

      Clydebuilt says:

      news on the streets is that Stair Heid is backing Skelator ……Should be the kiss of death, for any normal politico.

      She is not only backing Murph the Smurph Clyde but she is also backing Milliband’s call for votes for 16 and 17 year old. Now if only I could remember where I’ve heard that line before. 😉

      Labour wants the immediate transfer of election powers to Holyrood to allow MSPs to give 16 and 17-year-olds the vote in 2016.

      Shadow Scottish Secretary Margaret Curran has written to the UK government offering support for early legislation.

    238. keaton says:

      How do you know he meant it to be ‘amusing and CLEARLY metaphorical’?

      He even goes on to expand on the metaphor with the Terminator reference. I don’t see how it could be any more obviously not literal.

    239. ronnie anderson says:

      @ liz g looks like they’re could be a squadron of flys on the Wing about April/May. March winds are to cauld for flys.

    240. Morag says:

      Actually, I see I’ve misinterpreted what Stuart said. The bit about Salmond bing the zombie that powers through to the end of the horror movie came after Kirkup’s comment, so he didn’t pick up from it, rather it was an extension of what he said.

      Doesn’t make much difference to the interpretation of what he said, but best to be accurate.

      I still think it’s funny, the unionist politicos sitting gibbering in frustration as the adversary they think they’ve already killed three times lumbers back to his feet and just keeps right on coming at them.

    241. Stoker says:

      keaton says:
      “Now we’ve got a poster saying someone should be sacked for laughing at the comment.
      Yes, well, I’d happily stick that in the “embarrasing” column, but that kind of post is still in the minority.”

      Is that right.
      BBC presenters have a responsibility to conduct themselves in a certain manner at all times. Some people will find that sort of comment offensive and upsetting, and some people obviously have.

      Oh, and by the way, please accept my apologies if your arrogant and superiority complex finds my opinion “embarrassing.” Next time i’ll seek your approval, shall i.

    242. Kirsty says:


      You’re as entitled to think it’s meaningless/funny as other people are to think it’s not but people are offended because they’re sick and tired of this sort of crap. It’s the kind of thing that wouldn’t be said about any other politician in any other party – at least not without a strong right of reply only Alex Salmond/the SNP never seem to get the right of reply, let alone a strong right of reply, and it’s constant. It’s not even funny in context because there’s no sense of the absurd with it as it’s not balanced out in any way. It’s just one sided, put-down propaganda. People are getting tired of it, quite rightly, and can’t be bothered “laughing” it off anymore.


      The one laughing was the BBC studio person, I’m sure.

    243. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Morag the embassador badge on a skipped cap same as us,I think Jan got them in Primark, sticks on with fabric glue.

    244. Morag says:

      Maybe you look good in a skipped cap, Ronnie, but I’d look a right chookie.

    245. Natasha says:

      Well, that took less time than I thought!

      Chic, remember that when you post on off topic, it often returns you to the top of the previous page for some reason. I need those wee extra clues!

    246. Joemcg says:

      All hail Morag the self-proclaimed leader of wings.Yet ANOTHER post defending these unionist scum. Still bothers me how dismissive she was of ANY suggestion of vote rigging in the early days after the vote. 800,000 postal votes. That’s where they won it and it needed a lock stock and barrel investigation.

    247. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Lesley Anne SNP stealing Labours policies votes for 16/17 yr olds, who would beleive it,by the time May comes around every Labour member,the spin team are on the case they should be in the England cricket team ha ha.

    248. Thepnr says:


      Lets all fight amongst ourselves. Forget about SLAB. Doh!

    249. Natasha says:

      Morag – go to bed. Don’t respond. 🙂

    250. Lesley-Anne says:


      Repeat of Tuesday’s Daily Politics is on and wee Ruthie is in the studio for the whole hour. Quick pass the sick bucket.

    251. Morag says:

      Might as well. Not allowed to disagree with the herd, or even point out the bleedin’ obvious.

    252. liz says:

      @Thepnr – I am not fighting with anyone.

      But it seems to me as if some people think that theirs is the only true opinion.

      I have been a commenter, supporter, contributor to WoS, so I think it is important that everyone on here is given equal status.

      Yes disagree, I have no problem with that but I do object to my opinion being dismissed as if it is worthless.

      I think it is important as @Clootie said, we must never feel that we are being pressurised into not speaking out because we think differently.

    253. Morag says:

      And more wild accusations about postal votes make Baby Jesus (and the guys at Lawyers for Yes who debunked it all) cry.

    254. Morag says:

      I think it is important as @Clootie said, we must never feel that we are being pressurised into not speaking out because we think differently.


    255. liz says:

      @Morag – this will be my last response to you ever – ”Might as well. Not allowed to disagree with the herd, or even point out the bleedin’ obvious”

      For the last fucking time, no one is stopping you from expressing your opinion, you are the one being insulting and dismissive of people who do not agree with you.

      You are not wings, you do not control wings and IMO opinion you are causing friction.

      Note IMO not group think.

    256. boris says:

      Equal Marriage Bill and Iain Mckenzie MP for Inverclyde

      a. One MP, however, stands above them all; one who has not yet been named and shamed; one whose behaviour in voting against this bill is an act of betrayal and of laying waste to the legacy he was bequeathed. Iain McKenzie, Scottish Labour MP for Inverclyde, claimed he was voting against equal marriage because his constituents did not support it. The man is a disgrace. For he made this tawdry excuse in full knowledge that he is MP for an area which previously voted for a former Catholic priest who was openly gay when elected and in a long-term relationship with his partner, which he confirmed in a civil partnership. and whose partner, I understand, encouraged Iain McKenzie to vote for this bill.

      Iain McKenzie said on his election that “If I can serve my constituents half as well as David, I shall be doing well indeed.” Well, here is the news Mr McKenzie. You can’t and you won’t ever. You are the worst kind of politician who pretended to be something you clearly are not in order to secure your sinecure. You have trampled all over the memory of a fine and principled politician. You aren’t fit to lace David Cairns’s boot

    257. Stoker says:

      @ Kirsty,

      Yes, i was leaning in that direction but as i said, hard to tell.

      If i was forced to put money on it that’s exactly where i’d put it.

      Some very good points made by yourself and Clootie etc.

      People are sick of this almost daily cr@p and if certain folk get upset about it then who are others to be telling them how they should feel or think?

    258. ronnie anderson says:

      Wee bitty late in the day fur TROLLIES

      Morag yer Troll wiz waiting in the Wings awe never centre stage Trolly.

    259. keaton says:

      You’ve just said someone should be sacked for laughing at something, so I’m not sure you’re in a position to attack other people for having arrogant opinions.

    260. Kirsty says:


      I agree but I think a good debate is healthy, especially when it’s among friends! We’re all entitled to our views, and we’re all entitled to tell each other that we don’t agree with a particular view. I think that’s a very grown up thing and it makes me smile when I see people having differences of opinion here (as long as it’s kept polite, of course) because it reminds me that we’re not just a small “fringe” group or a borg-like entity like the unionists and the MSM would like to have us all believe but that we’re actually almost half the population! Half of any country’s population are never going to agree on everything and I think we should all stop feeling like we have to. Also, honestly, many times I’ve had my mind changed by reading/being part of a debate on here or other sites; debate is good.


      I agree with you, the BBC pride themselves on their impartiality – or at least they tell everyone that they do. That being the case, impartial is exactly what they should be. They’re not in the same position as other journalists/TV stations where they can be derisory and denigrating of a former First Minister or an entire party – at least not while people (not me ;-p) who may be supporting that party are paying the licence fee. I don’t think she should be sacked but I think a wee reminder of the whole “impartial” “paid for by taxpayers” thing wouldn’t go astray.

    261. Lesley-Anne says:

      Interesting watching the repeat of Daily Politics. They are currently discussing English Votes for English Laws and according to wee Ruthie the West Lothian question has been answered with the publication of the Smith Convention Report. Hmm … 😉

    262. fittie says:

      It looks like the better together coalition is being reformed if even unofficially .This of course is in respons to the polls showing the large lead for the SNP and other independence parties .

      We should build up the pro independence grass roots movement .
      The london press after the referendum dropped the “scottish question “, with the comments of hatred shown on the BBC news by london jurnos they have picked it up again and seem worried .

    263. Stoker says:

      Some good points well made, liz.

      Threads now turned sour.

      Night all.

      Just caught your reply, Kirsty, i agree but we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on the sacking – that’s a difference of opinion and last time i checked we were still allowed to have them. 😉
      Goodnight all.

    264. cearc says:


      Poor Ruthie seems delusional or may be just illiterate.

      It is quite extraordinary how they all keep saying that Smith report answers everything. They must be hoping that not many have bothered to read it.

    265. liz says:

      @Stoker – Thanks and good night

    266. ben madigan says:

      @john King
      Thanks for the story about the kittens. I have sorta transformed it into a post. hope you enjoy this christmas carol

    267. Morag says:

      People are sick of this almost daily cr@p and if certain folk get upset about it then who are others to be telling them how they should feel or think?

      Yeah, and I’m so sick of it I cancelled my TV licence and had a row on the phone about it with the guy who rang me to ask me why I hadn’t paid.

      But if we over-react when it’s not really warranted, how can we expect to have our concerns taken seriously when it is? I go back to the boy who cried wolf.

    268. Famous15 says:

      There are trolls on here who would start a fight in an empty house.That is what trolls do.

      Another little clue is they inject prejudice against minorities and squeel political correctness if challenged.

      I do not like Stu’s use of strong language but it is more fragrant and honest than the snivveling hate comments of the aforesaid trolls.

      And I agree with Morag too! Now ,having said that,I can sleep easy.

    269. R-type Grunt says:

      The BBC have one mission and it is to ‘other’ us. We’re the losers, the ones who need to get in line. Everything they say & do is projected through that prism. I KNOW we won that referendum & I know some of our own have inadvertently stitched us up. There should have been a re-count. More than that, we failed in not making damn sure before-hand that rigging was impossible.

      No-one, not even you Morag, has the right to insinuate that we’re somehow getting worked up over nothing. I will not rest until the BBC in Scotland is finished. This is my number one priority.

    270. cearc says:

      Absolutely agree with that, Morag. The more they get away with childish behaviour the more likely they are to go over the top and cause real offense.

      Over the next few months we will get worse thrown at us than during the referendum and every derogation will move a few more voters to the yes side.

    271. Morag says:

      That’s not really what I meant. I meant, save the outrage for when they say or do something really outrageous. It’s not as if we’re short of examples either.

      But never mind. Night night.

    272. Lesely-Anne says:

      cearc says:


      Poor Ruthie seems delusional or may be just illiterate.

      It is quite extraordinary how they all keep saying that Smith report answers everything. They must be hoping that not many have bothered to read it.

      I’m just laughing at her trying to argue against John Swinney and his Stamp Duty reforms. One word springs to mind when I watch her … PATHETIC!

    273. Kirsty says:


      Hehe, okay, I’ll allow the wee disagreement! ;-)) Goodnight.

    274. Onwards says:

      Yeah, its a bit of hyperbole from the reporter, but the funny thing is it really has rattled them.
      Some unionists are genuinely pissed off.

      And I reckon this is why Salmond will have no problem overturning the Lib-Dem majority, even with some tactical voting.

      Many Scots who didn’t vote for independence still have a lot of respect for Salmond, and prefer a character who will rattle some cages, not some party drone.

      Everyone can see that Scotland has a better chance of getting more powers with Alex Salmond and 20+ SNP MP’s fighting for Scotland’s interests.

    275. Bob Mack says:

      Good discussion tonight,and one which emphasises we are not a communal thought, as some may say. Unlike a “herd” we all look at things important to ourselves, and compare them to our inner values base. Delighted that there is such variation and passion among the people who contribute. I would be very worried indeed if we all shared the same thoughts, at the same time, in totality. At least there is spontaneity and firm belief and passion in what you post, and I know that can only be good for us all. Good night.

    276. AyeAlba says:


      If the clip had run for a bit longer you’d have seen it was Jo Coburn sniggering as she went on about it being Alex Salmond being in the helicopter, much to the delight of a conservative and labour guy in the studio who both chortled away at how smart they all are. Cant remember their names but the tory guy has recently been in court accused of sex offenses- cleared of course, but then he would be wouldn’t he.

      Mind you Kirkup doesn’t get away Scot free(no pun intended):-

      Also thanks for taking the trouble posting the info about the license fee this morning, have only seen it a wee while ago as been busy all day so I’ll need to go back and read it again. Much appreciated ;o))

    277. thoughtsofascot says:

      Now would be a good time to raise the banners, would it not? Oil the engine and mobilize the grassroots. Stop attacking each other, and turn our eyes on to the real enemy. A house divided is a house that cannot stand.

    278. keaton says:

      And I reckon this is why Salmond will have no problem overturning the Lib-Dem majority, even with some tactical voting.

      I’m not sure any amount of tactical voting would be enough. I’d expect the SNP to take over 50% of the vote in Gordon.

    279. Malcontent says:

      The “die” bit was a little strong, but we should revel the general fear (of Alex) and exasperation at his return in Toryboy’s comments. There might even be a subtle compliment in there.
      Keep up the momentum, guys, the Union is worried and uneasy. Good, it needs to be.

    280. Barontorc says:

      Quite sure Alex Salmond will know the difference between him and William Wallace, but not quite so sure about our nervy UK southerners.

      Spiffing good too!

    281. McBoxheid says:

      I posted twice between 9.0 pm and 10.00pm but they didn’t appear.

    282. ElaineS says:

      I wonder how a mass of us use the new guidelines for social media abuse and report Kirkup for being grossly offensive and hateful, wasn’t just Eck he was offending but Yes voting Scots.

    283. Rock says:

      They would love to see him dead.

      And they would love to see our Stuart dead as well.

      Not just dead, but stone dead.

      I just hope both of them remain ultra alert. Please don’t go climbing any hills or walking into any forests.

      By the way Stuart, have you suspected that you are being followed or monitored by the forces that be?

    284. Macduff says:

      Take heart Wingers we will get our Independence sooner or later as we see it as a journey and whit a bliddy one at that we may have lost tge vote …but we have won and are Still WINNING the argument and what a laugh it is to see these desperado unionist eejits trying to insult our leader the wonderful talented Alex Salmond !!!!!!! During the referendum it was amazing to see all the scots (TRUE SCOTS …I MEAN ) ASKING Alex to have a selfie ….didnt see anyone wanting there photie taken wi omellette murph or eydbrows Darlin etc, etc., oh how we are so blessed to have him and the likes of NIcola , Stewart, john , Kieth never mind the support of the GReens , the Rads, and the great support from Tommy Sheridan , what a pleasure it is to come onto this site every night and read your superb comments ….!!!!! Its great to hear you all socking to that lot who think were awe daft … the mighty fall.

    285. Rock says:


      “It looks like the better together coalition is being reformed if even unofficially .This of course is in respons to the polls showing the large lead for the SNP and other independence parties .”

      I expect Pravda GB and the unionist media to soon start promoting the Greens and the Socialists in an attempt to take away votes from the SNP.

      In the absence of a Yes Alliance, yes supporters will have to realise that under the totally undemocratic First Past The Post Westminster system, a vote for the Greens or the Socialists is a ‘wasted’ vote which will allow Labour to beat the SNP in many constituencies.

      I am not sure of the Greens’ chances in any constituency, but I would love to see the SNP step aside to allow firebrand Yes supporting Socialist candidates to take on the likes of Ian Davidson and Willy Bain.

    286. Rock says:


      “And more wild accusations about postal votes make Baby Jesus (and the guys at Lawyers for Yes who debunked it all) cry.”

      On the one hand, you seem to have a blind faith in lawyers.

      On the other hand, you know perfectly well that it was lawyers and the rotten to the core Scottish justice system that is made up of them that condemned the innocent Megrahi to imprisonment and eventual death.

      With the exception of a tiny minority, our Nicola being one of them, my gut instinct is that if a lawyer insists on something, the opposite must be true.

    287. donald anderson says:

      Reply to Rock

      The Scottish Parliament was designed by a lawyer to keep the SNP from gaining power.

    288. donald anderson says:

      How about I AM the terminator (picture of Alex Salmond) and not with stupid, with a picture of Ed Miliband?

    289. Wee Jonny says:

      Woo Hoo. I can go to sleep now.

    290. Conan_the_Librarian says:

      @ Rock

      There are lawyers and lawyers.

      Andrew Tickell or Donald Finlay…

    291. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Andrew Tickell is an academically qualified lawyer, not a practicing one, I think.

      Donald Finlay is a Rangers supporter.

    292. boris says:

      Spud Murphy on BBC radio Scotland this morning.

      As leader of the Labour Party in Scotland I will work selfishly wresting powers away from that place in Edinburgh moving the decision making and financial controls to the regions and cities of Scotland.

      But the power he refers to extends to about 15% of ALL relevant government over the people of Scotland. The other 90% rests with Westminster. Seems to me his priorities are misplaced and driven by dogma.

      If he and his labour Party are really serious about decentralizing – devolving powers away from overbearing government then he and his new found colleagues in the Tory Party had the opportunity in the referendum to fix things.

      But even provided with another bite at the cherry with the Smith report they showed no inclination to support the SNP government in their efforts to persuade Westminster politicians to honour their pledge to transfer significant powers from London to Scotland.

      What a chancer Spud is.

    293. heedtracker says:

      The Vow fraud goes up gear on BBC R4 and their ad for big debate on how devolution has changed UK and how disputes between devolved er thingees will need to go to the Supreme Court and that will be bad as its going to politicise Supreme Court judges.

      Sounds like a great show but same ad has nothing on or about what powers of devo our imperial masters have given us, might be powerful enough to actually merit Supreme Court rulings. Funny that. Another day in teamGB and devo max for their Scotland region fraud farts along.

    294. donnywho says:

      The”what do you think labour would say” is a vaguely transparent device.
      Yes there is deniability, yes its a bit of fun, yes worse has been said, yes you are attributing thoughts to others.

      But think about it you get too say your own prejudices scot free, and the bbc thinks it is a cunning wheeze. You can see baldrick and Blackadder behind this. Hence the tittering.
      At what point does attributing thoughts to others become outright propaganda.

      This is why I think the anger on this thread is so palpable, it is sleekit and plain and simple propaganda.
      I also think it is dangerous and intemperate.
      Morag might disagree with the last statement but I put forward the “Beckett” argument ” who will rid me of this turbulent priest/politician”

    295. Onzebill says:

      Totally englishcentric thinking from that pair, we Scotties should just be doing what we are told, but they cannot help themselves.

      Having lived in South East England I appreciate that their mindset is formed at a very early age, at home and in school i.e. ENGLAND is Britain, is the UK, we, the Scots and Scotland are at best marginalised, they believe they heavily subsidise us, we are somewhat scary and we are definitely not like them or should I say their perception of themselves.

      We had our chance to get away from these people and their ignorance, insularity and their self-centred thinking, I hope we get a second chance and soon.

    296. chalks says:

      ‘Rock says:
      10 December, 2014 at 3:21 amMorag,

      “And more wild accusations about postal votes make Baby Jesus (and the guys at Lawyers for Yes who debunked it all) cry.”

      On the one hand, you seem to have a blind faith in lawyers.

      On the other hand, you know perfectly well that it was lawyers and the rotten to the core Scottish justice system that is made up of them that condemned the innocent Megrahi to imprisonment and eventual death.

      With the exception of a tiny minority, our Nicola being one of them, my gut instinct is that if a lawyer insists on something, the opposite must be true.’

      Knew it wouldn’t be long before someone accused the Lawyers that SUPPORT AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND from not analysing evidence etc….the vote wasn’t rigged, but let’s not let that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory eh?

      P.s. I’m a qualified lawyer, so thanks for tarring me with the same brush as your ignorant stereotype suggests.

      But as long as you realise, Nicola would never lie, never.


    297. Clootie says:


      My point was debate is good but it should include respect. A stronger focus on ….what I believe…..why I believe it.

      Compare the excellent post by @boris on Iaim McKenzie Inverclyde which hardly got covered last night due to the running sore which dominated the thread.

      It is only MY opinion but we are missing the high level debate e.g. @boris due to domination by low level opinions.

      I’d rather discuss welfare reform etc than should a toilet roll be replaced with the paper next to the wall or away from the wall! Both are debatable.

    298. Grouse Beater says:

      This is why I think the anger on this thread is so palpable, it is sleekit and plain and simple propaganda. I also think it is dangerous and intemperate.

      I completely agree. A perceptive comment.

      Donnywho: Morag might disagree with the last statement …

      If Morag, as she states twenty-three (23) times, finds it only amusing, that’s fine … if that’s her standard.

      It’s not my standard of thoughtful and impartial commentary.

      You can see Kirkup enjoy extending his ‘metaphor,’ letting the interviewer and, of course, us know he feels the same way – the confidence of the arrogant colonial for all to witness – hence the leaden language he employs to describe an alleged loathing of Salmond by all in the Labour party.

      By making that statement he places in the public mind Salmond is a pariah. He is saying, ‘Look at all the wise and wonderful politicians who think it.’

      It’s black propaganda. Had Kirkup spoke honestly he’d explain Labour think Salmond the Devil incarnate but they’d be wiser to acknowledge his skills and public support. Instead he implies us, ‘a lot’ of people hate him.

      The message?

      Don’t vote for somebody so unpopular.

      And Scottish. And a democrat.

    299. think again says:

      Buses, bonfires and now die you zombie, why won`t you die?

      I love the English language, it is so open to humour, irony, sarcasm, childish, or smutty but the humour is always there.

      When Alex was to be put on a bonfire and or blown up his main concern was for Nessie. Perhaps he will not go as far as to worry about zombies and movie heroes but the comparison is there. Some find it odious on both sides of the political divide, others, equally split, will find it quirky or mildly humorous.

      None of this can be unsaid but the audience for the programme I presume was low and by and large those who saw it on TV will have settled political minds.

      We should take comfort from the level of fear and dread he instils and concentrate on turning it to our advantage, rather than drawing in on ourselves.

    300. Luigi says:

      Ach, it’s just Newton’s Third Law of Motion (applied to human behaviour):

      For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

      The more popular Alex Salmond becomes (and let’s face it, he is even more popular now than ever), the more some people will just hate him (to the point of irrationality). He ain’t known as the Marmite Man for nothing.

    301. Morag says:

      The point about Lawyers for Yes wasn’t that they’re lawyers, but that they’re the ones who put up the blog posts analysing the evidence and showing that the postal votes couldn’t explain a No majority of 400,000. It’s not blind faith in lawyers, but an appreciation that they showed their working.

      It’s fairly simple. We know how many postal votes there were, and we know fairly accurately how they split for Yes and No (thanks to ballot box sampling, at the count, perfectly legal). If 400,000 extra No postal ballots were somehow introduced, then you have to subtract 400,000 No votes from the reported numbers to get the “real” postal voting figures.

      It doesn’t work. The remainder of the votes split so heavily for Yes that it’s completely unbelievable. You’re left postulating that while the overall vote was a very very narrow Yes victory, the postal votes were about 75% Yes. (There are other anomalies as well, arising from that, such as assumptions on turnout.)

      Nobody believes that the postal votes were far more heavily Yes than the votes on the day. Postal voters were disproportionately the elderly and the housebound and people living in remote rural areas. We always knew the postal vote would skew to No.

      I wish people would think this through, rather than continually repeating that they “just know” something happened.

      My own little conspiracy theory has nothing to do with ballot paper tampering and everything to do with chocolate fireguards. But it’s only a theory and I could be wrong and it’s kind of defamatory, so best not go there really.

      Oh, and while prosecution lawyers most certainly convicted Megrahi unjustly, there are a lot of honourable Scottish lawyers working hard to get that overturned. Robert Black, Len Murray, the late Jock Thomson, and of course Aamer Anwar. Don’t tar everyone with the Andrew Hardie/Colin Boyd/Elish Angiolini/Frank Mulholland brush.

    302. donald anderson says:

      Prefer a “Scottish Werewolf in London” myself with The bagpipe them tune. “Don’t Go Out Tonight. It’s Bound to take You’re life. There’s a Bad Moon in the Sky”.

    303. Lollysmum says:

      Just goes to show what I said at the top of this thread is true.

      ‘Be afraid, be very afraid’ That fear is already palpable in WM.

      Their cosy little establishment cartel is going to have the light shone upon it by AS & Co & all colour shades of tories aren’t going to like it one little bit.

      But I’m going to love every minute of it & so will Alex.
      Scotland’s voice will be heard & that’s what worries them given the depth & breadth of the lies they’ve told in the last forty years.

      They do right to fear him because they can’t predict what he’s going to do or say 🙂

      Yes, Kirkup should have had the bottle to say ‘we’ considering that he meant it but he didn’t so he talked about ‘them’-duplicitous, smug & unbelievable.

      What goes around, comes around.His turn will come.

    304. Morag says:

      …. we should revel the general fear (of Alex) and exasperation at his return in Toryboy’s comments. There might even be a subtle compliment in there.

      That’s what I took out of it as well. Whether he was speaking personally or for the unionist politicians, the main message was, boy they’re rattled. I was also struck by the unquestioned assumption that Salmond will win the Gordon seat next year, no question.

      It wasn’t a comment that was meant kindly, or respectfully, but it was more amusing than offensive, and the most amusing part of it all was how clear it was that the unionists are angry, frustrated and scared.

    305. Marcia says:

      From speaking to one of the Yes campaign team in Dundee she tells me that the majority of postal votes seen at the verification stage were for No but the GOTV on the day overturned that to a Yes majority. This was also reflected in their canvassing of the postal voter during the campaign/voters on the day.

    306. Luigi says:

      Ach some people just don’t want to let go. Why can’t we just accept that a majority of people (for a variety of reasons) decided to vote NO on 18th September 2014?

      I would give the conspiracy ideas a wee bit of time if I never knew many NO voters out there. But, here’s the rub, I know, personally, lots, and lots, and lots of people who actually voted NO. In fact, I was surprise that YES reached 45% – amazing! Maybe I just mix with the wrong people.

    307. Grouse Beater says:

      Morag: the most amusing part of it all was how clear it was that the unionists are angry, frustrated and scared.

      Are they hell. Evidence please – personal interpretations not accepted.

    308. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the Labour leadership poll closes at 12, when are they announcing Eggy Murphy’s victory (before or after 12)


    309. Wee Jonny says:

      I put forward a motion to quash Croompentien’s “I AM ALEX SALMOND” and put on a t.shirt in place of I AM MORAG on t.shirts.
      The Aye’s have it????

    310. CameronB Brodie says:

      Grouse Beater
      I agree. As a publicly funded public service broadcaster (not state broadcaster, honest), the BBC has a duty of care. This was not evident in the tone set by this broadcast. Although the commentator was not expressing his own opinion, the tone and the lack of critique would no doubt leave a good number of viewers with the impression that the opinion had the BBC’s sanction. It was therefore wholesome and patriotic.

    311. No no no...Yes says:

      O/T I see Mags has rushed out a press release to try and make up for lost ground on the Fracking debate in Westminster:

      As always, there’s an anti-SNP comment:

      “Right now, the SNP Scottish Government has an absolute veto on shale gas extraction in Scotland as they have to provide planning permission for the sites. This means that they could stop any shale gas extraction in Scotland if they wanted to.”

    312. YESGUY says:


      I am with you on this . I watched and laughed my socks off at their reaction to the A. Salmond comeback(as if he was ever away) Alex scares the shit out of the whole cabal.

      The unionist have been much more vindictive and vile but i guess we take all their comments now with a guarded anger. I was furious last week at the comments aimed at YESSERS. This one put a smile on my face. And the cartoon of Alex flashing his bum at WM is now on my screensaver.

      We can all take heart from this. WM is terrified and we haven’t even started yet. And i have to admit , i can see wee Eck will chuckle at this one.

      The unionists are running scared.


      Who won the ref ???? 🙂

    313. Morag says:

      Right now, the SNP Scottish Government has an absolute veto on shale gas extraction in Scotland as they have to provide planning permission for the sites. This means that they could stop any shale gas extraction in Scotland if they wanted to.

      I really, really hope that’s true. But as it seems to have come from Mags Curran, I await confirmation.

    314. Morag says:

      Ooh, Yesguy, Grouse Beater is now going to disagree with you and hound you for “evidence please – personal interpretations not accepted.”

    315. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Perhaps some clever person on here can explain how in five local government areas of Scotland postal voting achieved 97% take up (and not very far off that in many others). This North Korean figure achieved on an old register is virtually, if not completely, impossible.

      Let me state a truth.
      If the British authorities realised they perhaps would need to fiddle the ballot to win it that is exactly what they would have done. Any body who believes otherwise is in another world.

    316. fred blogger says:

      the snp don’t have a yes or no veto on fracking @ all, what they do have is planning regulations.
      the lords took back devolved powers over energy.

    317. Morag says:

      “I can’t explain how but they would have done it anyway.”

      OK, suit yourself.

    318. Joe Public says:

      Looks like they’re expecting Mr Salmond to win the seat. That’s a bonus, but I wouldn’t count my chickens, not just yet. They’ve (Liberals) held that seat with a pretty healthy majority (over 7000) but it would be great if we could prise it from the three unionist parties.

      Try and get as many SNP MPs down there as possible to ensure we drag as many powers back to our own parliament as they’re willing to let go of, then we’ll go to the people again for the rest after they renege on this ‘super-devo-max’ we were said to be getting.

    319. CameronB Brodie says:

      I find the Establishment’s fear funny myself, but you have a sophistication that many will not share.

    320. Morag says:

      O/T. Did someone say the name of the company that chases TV licences is Capita?

      This morning I was a bit late leaving for work, and my phone rang about ten to nine. I answered and when I heard a foreign accent (guessing Indian) I just put it down, assuming he was trying to get me to act on mis-sold payment protection insurance or something like that. Except, I then realised his words had been “I’m just phoning to check….” I wondered what it had been about, but didn’t really care because unless the caller says “Hello Morag” or words to that effect, I don’t answer.

      About half an hour later as I was driving through the village on the way to work I noticed a fairly large white van parked outside the newsagent’s shop. Nothing unusual about that, except this van simply had the word “CAPITA” on it.

      Now I’m curious.

    321. Martin Wood says:

      I have a problem with the BBC’s regular Alex Salmond broadcasts.

      Apart from being relentlessly negative it is now bordering on regular personal abuse.

      It is possible to see the funny side in this, and to interpret it as analogous or “talking about political death” but..

      Had this appeared on a twitter feed or facebook it would not be allowed to be interpreted that way.

      Is this the level now… twitter journalism?

    322. CameronB Brodie says:

      Planning guidance and regulations are easily amended. Just saying.

    323. Dan Huil says:

      OT I hope Angus Robertson asks a question at today’s PMQs about uk’s rendition policy when helping our friends in the CIA.

    324. bookie from hell says:

      congrats Jim Murphy

      on sh^t,votes still need to be counted

    325. R-type Grunt says:

      Dave McEwan Hill @ 11:36

      “If the British authorities realised they perhaps would need to fiddle the ballot to win it that is exactly what they would have done. Any body who believes otherwise is in another world”.

      That’s my reasoning too. They lied to Scotland for two years straight and I find it damned hard to believe they would suddenly find some morals at the count.

    326. Morag says:

      “I can’t explain how they could possibly have done it, but I’m convinced they did it anyway.”

      Repeat as required.

    327. fred blogger says:

      CameronB Brodie
      yes, i’m no where near sure how watertight and permanent they can make the regulations to avoid costly challenges and incumbents from overturning them.
      ie can WM take the power over planning away from holyrood?

    328. Alan Mackintosh says:

      Morag, Yes planning is devolved to Scot Gov. But WM is planning to put through powers to allow frackers to drill below your land. In Scotland an owner of land has a section of the planet “from the centre of the earth to the heavens above”- “a coelo ad centrum”. For practical purposes, aircraft can fly above a certain height without requiring permission from each landowner to pass through. In a similar way WM plans to legislate drilling rights as long as they are 300′ below the ground.

      Disclaimer, I’m not a lawyer, picked this up from Andy Wightmans talk in Inverness last week, and tbh, AW probably knows more about land laws than most…

    329. YESGUY says:

      Wings over Scotland.

      This sight has YES supporters. The Lab/Con/Lib/Ukip have all agreed with their party message. We YESSERS on the other hand are a patchwork quilt of many colours and shades. This makes it hard to point out anything we ALL agree on , other than independence. It’s why i love this site. So many voices. Brothers and sisters in the greatest family on the interweb. We just don;t all see eye to eye and that my friends is a blessing.


      You like to keep us right . You have your views and although i don’t agree with some of it i know your a staunch YESSER. You fight back and that makes me cheer. Too many of us “Scots” just put up with it all. And we know Scots lassies have fire in their bellies don’t we guys.

      The BBC are bias. FACT – old news . The London centric press are liars, self serving , opinionated slugs for the establishment. Fact.

      Independence minded folk are massing and will fight till their last breath. Fact .

      That’s GrouseBeater sorted 🙂

      Parliament and they’re patsy journo’s are scared witless and so out of touch with whats happening here. Let them spout their drivel. But one things for certain. Wee Eck is the bane of their lives and we will ensure he will be there , with numbers to back him up this time.

      I cried on the 19th. Wept so much my cheeks ached the next day. even now when i think back it hurts. But here , on Wings and the like, i saw fire still burning. voices refusing to give up. And i cried again , with pride.

      We will gain independence. It’s only a matter of time. The only way that WM can validate it’s power over Scotland is through fear. Sooner or later you must face your fears and conquer them. That day is coming.

      So carry on voicing your thoughts. Even if your wrong. ( Morag will keep you right 🙂 and thank you from this YESSER for doing so. Your the brightest light out there.

    330. CameronB Brodie says:

      fred blogger
      Not sure myself, but I think Ian Mitchell is the man to ask. I’ll think I should leave that to the more accomplished letter writers. 🙂

      Scottish Planning Policy
      Monday, June 23, 2014

    331. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I think Grousebeater and Morag should just get a room somewhere.

      I’d pay to see that and maybe also to get the rights the Live Video link.

    332. CameronB Brodie says:

      See what I mean. Caught in two minds, though I’d probably have spotted the mistake before contacting Mr. Mitchell. 🙂

    333. liz says:

      As I said previously, I have no problem with people disagreeing with me but IMO we should keep it impersonal.

      There is no need to call people a herd, I find that insulting.

    334. CameronB Brodie says:

      And that’s what hunger does to one’s concentration. I’m all over the place.

      Time for lunch.

    335. Croompenstein says:

      @BtP – LOL they are the indy movements gold blend coffee advert 🙂

    336. YESGUY says:

      Croompenstein. and BtP.

      Screen washed …. AGAIN. 🙂

    337. Grouse Beater says:

      BtP: think Grousebeater and Morag should just get a room somewhere.

      Careful. I replied to her assertions only once, and briefly, BtP, others multiple times. How that constitutes ‘hounding,’ as dear Morag claims, is a mystery.

    338. Chic McGregor says:

      David McEwen Hill
      “Perhaps some clever person on here can explain how in five local government areas of Scotland postal voting achieved 97% take up (and not very far off that in many others). This North Korean figure achieved on an old register is virtually, if not completely, impossible.

      Let me state a truth.
      If the British authorities realised they perhaps would need to fiddle the ballot to win it that is exactly what they would have done. Any body who believes otherwise is in another world.”

      A high turn out for postal ballots is not surprising.
      The two main effects which reduce voting, namely motivation and existence (deid, moved) being almost entirely eliminated by the simple fact that they applied to vote.

      I agree somewhat with your last paragraph, but would modify it to them doing what they could reasonably expect to get away with.

    339. CameronB Brodie says:

      I enjoyed that, apart from the sleekit BIG LIE at the end – that Ed Miliband needs Scottish votes to secure a majority.

      Not so subtle propaganda from Ch4.

    340. KennyG says:

      “When will he go away?” “Why wont he just die?”

      All very standard questions in a civilised debate I’m sure you’ll agree. I actually feel sorry for them. They think in their tiny minds that this will just go away. They really have no idea what’s coming do they.

    341. MarkAustin says:


      Yes, Capita has the contact for TV licencing enforcement.

    342. Morag says:

      I agree somewhat with your last paragraph, but would modify it to them doing what they could reasonably expect to get away with.

      That’s it, really. No matter how unscrupulous they are, they can only do what’s possible, and they can’t do anything that has more than a minimal chance of detection before or after the fact. Penny-number fiddles are possible, but an operation to turn a Yes majority into a 400,000 majority for No is too big for that. And the evidence we have shows that it wasn’t in fact done.

      Almost worse than losing the referendum would have been the international exposure of the British state, with all its false posturing of “the great British sense of fair play” and so on, as having tampered with ballot papers to thwart Scottish independence.

      I think they did something they could reasonably expect to get away with, which was a far bigger deal than ballot-paper tampering. I think they had assumed that would work, so no worries, until the last couple of weeks when despite their shenanigans, Yes seemed to be drawing ahead. Hence the blind panic that led to the Vow.

      If they’d had a workable plan in place to tamper with the papers to secure a No majority, no way in hell would the Vow have been made. That is the “mistake” that is coming back to haunt them, and the route to an eventual Yes victory.

    343. Morag says:

      Thanks, Mark, I thought so. I suppose their presence in the village only a few weeks after I had a row* over the phone with a guy who phoned me about not having paid my TV licence, and about 30 to 40 minutes after I hung up on a weird call that started “I was just phoning to check….” could be entirely coincidental.

      Pretty sure it must be, really.

      * When I say “row”, it was really him saying something mild and inoffensive, and me launching into a rant about how the BBC robbed my country of its freedom and no way in hell would I be paying them another penny.

    344. Regarding the ways to corrupt the Postal Vote these paragraphs are from the Telegraph ,

      `In Bordesley Green, of the 7,000 postal votes cast, up to 2,000 were either stolen, altered with correction fluid, diverted or falsified in Labour’s favour. The party succeeded in ousting the People’s Justice Party’s two councillors by 441 votes. Similarly in Aston, where at least 1,000 votes were fraudulent, the Liberal Democrats lost by 514 votes.`

      `One illiterate man is said to have had his name used on more than 50 ballot papers. Activists stood over voters while they filled in their form, pressuring them to vote Labour.`

      `They had collected the ballots in a variety of ways. The most common was to get hold of a copy of the electoral register, apply for a postal ballot in someone else’s name and have it sent to a “safe” address where it could be picked up.`

      Chris Game, senior lecturer at Birmingham University’s Institute of Local Government Studies, said the hearing was “like a guide to postal vote manipulation”. He added: “The Birmingham cases show how the vote can be undermined very, very easily by postal vote fraud”.

    345. Morag says:

      Yes, the Birmingham story is well known. There are two points to remember though. One is that in the context of a nation-wide referendum, that is still penny-numbers. You’re not trying to swing a couple of marginal seats, you’re trying to swing the entire country, hundreds of thuosands of votes. And you’d still have to spread it over almost the entire country, to avoid giving the whole thing away. You couldn’t have a situation where an overall Yes vote was turned to a No because a particular bunch of boxes all contained only No votes. People would notice. The spread would have to be even enough to be credible, even to counting agents hanging over tellers’ shoulders desperate to find out how their own home patch voted. (I did that. 32%. Could have been worse, considering.)

      The other point is that the Birmingham effort was found out. I mean, tippex? It was actually grossly amateurish and could never have succeeded. (It was some guys trying to get one of their number elected to the council. I hate to say Pakistani, but it was some sort of Asian entryism plot. It was pure Keystone Cops.) The British state could never have risked getting involved in anything like that.

    346. Grouse Beater says:

      When it comes to containing freedoms, prosperity too, and thwarting a democratic movement, all the opposing parties at Westminster require to do is, resist change that devolves real power – such as blocking Scotland from sharing a UK currency.

      However, it does not stop ‘patriotic’ local officials in Scotland fiddling with postal votes in a save-the-union referendum. Fabrication of numbers is a dividend.

    347. Morag says:

      Half the local government officials and employees involved in the referendum were Yes voters. And everybody was watching everybody else.

      And all these people were being watched by the postal vote polling agents, from both sides.

      The numbers we have, after the fact, confirm that there was no large-scale fiddle of postal votes. The numbers presented by Lawyers for Yes demonstrate that quite clearly.

      It’s not enough to keep saying “they would have done it if they could”. Probably they would have. But there simply weren’t the opportunities, not on the scale that would have been required. And they couldn’t have risked exposure.

    348. Hoss Mackintosh says:


      Interesting C4 news article – thanks.

      Why can BBC Scotland not do programs like this?

    349. Morag says:

      You have to ask?

    350. Les Wilson says:

      what a sad pair of shits these two look, and there are many more just like them across all the Westminster parties.

    351. Grouse Beater says:

      Hoss MacIntosh – (off topic) your avatar:

      Many years ago I saw Dan Blocker, the actor who played Hoss Cartwright, a tourist walking down Hanover Street in Edinburgh, giant of a man, and believe it or not, he was wearing his trademark stetson!


    352. You have got to remember the No campaign had the resources of not just the UK state but the three main UK parties with all their members/staff basically they had many thousands of activists from all over the UK against little old us.
      In the Birmingham case `three` Labour activists managed to manipulate almost 30% of the 7000 Postal votes they were caught but they must have thought they had a chance of succeeding ,scale that up to Scotland and all you need is 3500 willing Unionists from the whole of Uk and someone to orchestrate the fraud.
      I know who I think was in charge.

    353. Morag says:

      It’s not a comparable situation. And while no doubt the Birmingham guys thought they had a chance of succeeding, they were a bunch of idiots.

      If you’d been a polling agent, you’d realise how impossible the sort of fraud you’re suggesting is. I’m sure there were some fraudulent registrations, and maybe the odd bit of additional fiddling, but the system is actually pretty robust at the macro level and there simply was no group of parachuted-in strangers tippexing ballot papers in every town, village and hamlet in Scotland.

      There were far more practical things they could do than tampering with the papers, and I reckon they did them. These weren’t enough, much to their shock and horror in the last couple of weeks. Hence the Vow, rolled out as a last-minute, panicked bribe.

      You really think they would have resorted to the Vow if they had a huge covert Scotland-wide operation all geared up to tamper with the voting papers? They did it because they suddenly realised that what they had done hadn’t been enough, and they might be going to lose.

    354. “Hence the Vow, rolled out as a last-minute, panicked bribe.”
      And yet on the 14th two days before the supposedly panic bribe of the Vow John McTernan on Sunday Politics say “a distinct lead for No” and ” the Postal Votes are running very strongly for No” I do not see any panic he new the massive percentage for No in the postal vote.
      The Vow was/is a Red Herring to explain the manipulated voting.

    355. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Just to make some points.

      A high turnout in a postal ballot is around 80%. That has been confirmed in correspondence with the electoral authority. This is across the board at all elections,local and national, and is not changed significantly by the actual overall percentage vote at any election.

      I have been at discussions with an organisation which is pursuing some associated troubling matters with some determination. There is no suggestion of any person or organisation involved in the count in Scotland on the night being involved in any misbehaviour. Any interference that may have affected the result would have been much higher up,very substantial and hugely sophisticated. The answers being received on detailed questions about this are now becoming increasingly evasive.

      It has also been explained to us very clearly how such manipulation could have been effected. A postal ballot system electronically validated at any point is a recipe for fraud.

      In fact our whole traditional voting system, founded on unwarranted trust, is no longer fit for purpose.

      Postal ballots should only be available to those who are unable to visit a polling station on polling day.

      Reported postal ballot figures on the referendum appear to represent over 12,000 postal ballots per constituency????

      From summer onwards the biggest, most exhaustive mass canvass ever done in Scotland was achieved. It was monitored by top of the line polling experts. It fully included canvas of those who had postal voted. It identified a few areas of strong NO preference (mostly in areas of low population density) some other areas of slight NO preference, areas of slight YES preference and many heavily populated areas of significant YES preference.
      The announced result does not stack up.

      My concern here is not whether or not we were cheated. I had no confidence that we would not be cheated. My concern is that some people seem to think that that was not a perfectly possible or even likely occurence.

    356. Morag says:

      We just seem to be back to “I have no idea at all how it was or could have been done but I’m going to go on saying it was done anyway.”

      There’s really no reasoning with that.

      The Vow is going to be their nemesis.

    357. Morag says:

      Dave, I posted that last post without seeing yours. If you do have a credible explanation for how the papers could have been manipulated, which is consistent with everything we know including the distribution of the votes and the individual ballot box sampling results, then I’d be very interested to hear it. Until then, colour me sceptical.

      I do agree with you however that the procedures are far too lax. We should be talking about NO possibility for fraud, not being complacent that it’s only happening on a small scale.

    358. Morag says:

      Oh, I’m quite sure we were cheated. I just think it was done a different way.

    359. Rock says:

      Apart from a tiny minority, lawyers are the lowest of the low in my opinion. The better at lying they are, the more ‘brilliant’ they are considered by the Establishment

      Like the English justice system, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core. Its sole purpose is to keep the plebs in their place.

      Morag, you have some issues with Kenny, the former justice minister who released Megrahi don’t you?

    360. Rock says:

      Apart from a tiny minority, lawyers are the lowest of the low in my opinion. The better at lying they are, the more
      ‘brilliant’ they are considered by the Establishment

      Like the English justice system, the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core. Its sole purpose is to keep the plebs in their place.

      Morag, you have some issues with Kenny, the former justice minister who released Megrahi don’t you?

    361. Rock says:


      “Oh, and while prosecution lawyers most certainly convicted Megrahi unjustly, there are a lot of honourable Scottish lawyers working hard to get that overturned. Robert Black, Len Murray, the late Jock Thomson, and of course Aamer Anwar. Don’t tar everyone with the Andrew Hardie/Colin Boyd/Elish Angiolini/Frank Mulholland brush.”

      Why aren’t they getting anywhere then?

      Because the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core, that is why.

      Any genuinely honest lawyer should openly attack the Scottish justice system. The fact no one does is because they are all part of the same Establishment. The whole business is a show.

      No wonder we are under the colonial yoke after 300 years despite the Treaty of Union having been breached a million times.

      Where were all those lawyers when Blair and Dewar handed over Scottish territory to England?

    362. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “Let me state a truth.
      If the British authorities realised they perhaps would need to fiddle the ballot to win it that is exactly what they would have done. Any body who believes otherwise is in another world.”

      I agree 100% and add that they DID fiddle the ballot to win.

    363. Morag says:

      I have issues with Kenny MacAskill, yes, but obviously the fact that he agreed to Megrahi’s application for compassionate release is not one of them.

      It’s incorrect to say that the lawyers who are trying to have the judgement overturned aren’t getting anywhere. There is an application in with the SCCRC asking for leave to appeal the conviction for the third time. This is a delicate matter and the lawyers are in discussion with the SCCRC. Quite separately, nine separate allegations have been lodged with Police Scotland, pertaining to possible criminal misconduct both in the course of the original inquiry and during the 2000-01 trial. The police are investigating these and progress is being made. I personally have been interviewed three times by the police in this context. And finally there is the Justice for Megrahi petition requesting a public inquiry into the case, which has been before the Justice Committee for several years and is re-considered on a regular basis in the light of progress with the other two endeavours.

      Lawyers are people. There are good ones and bad ones and indifferent ones. There are moral ones and corrupt ones. The trick is to figure out which is which. I’m not sure anyone has quite mastered that.

    364. Morag says:

      Rock, I concede that there’s no arguing with blind belief. You have no idea how the ballot papers were tampered with and no idea even how they might have been tampered with. You can’t describe any possible modus operandi in even the slightest detail. You have no answer to the extensive evidence that shows no such thing happened. You just say it did, anyway.

      Suit yourself. There’s simply no answer that has any chance of attracting your attention.

    365. Morag says:

      Anyway, the point isn’t the occupation of the people who put up the blog post showing that there was no large-scale ballot tampering. It’s the fact that they detailed all their evidence, and showed their working, and their logic and reasoning are compelling.

      Repeated blind assertions that it happened anyway don’t cut it.

    366. Rock says:


      “You can’t describe any possible modus operandi in even the slightest detail.”

      Could you perhaps explain the modus operandi of the British Establishment in ruling half the globe?

      Fiddling 400,000 votes is child’s play for them.

      You are deluded if you seriously believe that they would leave any evidence or that their methods could be understood by a mere mortal like yourself however well educated you might be.

      With gut instinct and basic common sense I can be 100% sure that they rigged the ballot. I don’t need any evidence for it.

      How deluded we all were in believing that we would be the only colonised people in the world who would get independence by fair and democratic means.

    367. Morag says:

      Clearly there is no possible way for logic or reason to penetrate that “argument”. Your gut instinct knows everything and doesn’t need evidence apparently.

      However, you raise an additional fallacy. Tampering with the ballot papers is not the only way to prevent independence by unfair and undemocratic means. I think they did just about all the others.

      I think they had such a wide-ranging strategy of infitration and manipulation during the campaign, they didn’t seriously believe it was possible for a Yes vote to happen. I think, as a matter of fact, that this obsession with ballot-tampering is distracting people from thinking about what they really did. I even think the ballot-tampering conspiracy theories were started and maintained for that purpose.

      And you’ve walked right into it. Congratulations.

    368. Does anyone know if members of the public can access the Referendum ballot papers and postal votes or even where they are kept and if they are kept along with the registers from the polling stations ?

    369. Morag says:

      I’m pretty much 100% sure members of the public cannot access ballot papers. It’s that “secret ballot” thing.

    370. Cadogan Enright says:

      It is quite possible the referendum was stolen, but of our best minds can’t prove it or even show good evidence then the obvious thing to do is to work out how ensure much greater transparency and traceability and use of witnesses for voting boxes in transit the next time and ensure that the SNP sees that its is done.

      going on about it at this late stage simply takes away from May

    371. Morag says:

      It’s not the ballot papers that need the attention. Not that I’m saying ignore them, but they’re already under heavy observation. Some other things aren’t.

    372. Rock says:


      “I’m pretty much 100% sure members of the public cannot access ballot papers. It’s that “secret ballot” thing.”

      Yes, that is how the British Establishment keeps its rigging secret.

    373. Surely by discussing these thing amongst the readership of Wings we can find ways of making future ballots more transparent and unambiguous.
      We know Labour are devious gangsters and have had decades of manipulating the democratic process and they will be at it again come the GE,Murphy Murray Curran and the rest are not going to give up the Westminster gravy train without a very dirty fight.

    374. Morag says:

      Rock, I’m not concerned with your gut feelings or blind beliefs. I can’t stop you believing what you like, but it’s becoming a religious faith with you, not a reasoned position.

      There are already changes in hand to improve the electoral register and minimise the chance of fraudulent registration. We’ve all had the letters. And that’s on top of improvements which have already been made – names are automatically removed when a death is registered, for example.

      I genuinely worry that all this obsession with ballot-box tampering is blinding people to the more vulnerable areas and dirtier tricks that should be watched for.

      Still, I understand I’m not the only person in the SNP with the rather more devious suspicions, and the point has been taken on board where it matters I think.

    375. wannabescot says:

      “Nigel Farage crosses the border at the head of
      the Armed Forces in 600 armoured troop carriers. He stops at
      Carlisle first for a pee, a pie and a pint with his fag.”

      Wait, what? Farage is traveling with his significant other?

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