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While the truth gets its boots on

Posted on January 25, 2017 by

Here’s Alex Salmond on last night’s Newsnight:

Let’s just quickly fact-check that claim.

Salmond says “Far more people in Scotland, by majority and percentage, wanted to stay within Europe as wanted to stay with the United Kingdom”. Is that true?

Majority for staying in the UK: 383,937
Majority for staying in the EU: 642,869

The second number is very significantly higher – almost 70% higher, in fact. So it’s looking pretty good so far.

No vote: 55%
Remain vote: 62%

We’ve had some top experts check this one out for us, and it seems that 62 is indeed a bigger number than 55. So in the terms the former First Minister used he was absolutely, categorically, unambiguously and unequivocally telling the truth. Those claims are 100% accurate.

Now let’s see how it was reported.


That’s Jess Brammar, the BBC flagship show’s deputy editor, magically turning truth into a lie before viewers’ very eyes.

(And Twitter’s character limit isn’t an excuse for it. “@alexsalmond tells @evanhd that proportionally far more people in scotland wanted to stay in the EU than the UK #newsnight”, for example, fits comfortably into 140 characters and has the key added benefit of actually being true.)

Salmond chose his words carefully and entirely truthfully, but by misrepresenting them Brammar makes them appear false – because different turnouts meant that the absolute numbers voting No were higher than those who voted Remain.

But that’s simply not how people talk about votes. Opinion polls don’t say “142 people backed Labour”, they say “14%”. Nobody complains that the Tories have a majority at Westminster on only 11.3m votes, they say “37%” – even though it’s only about 25% of the electorate – because people who don’t vote don’t count.

Still, Brammar only has 19,000 followers, so maybe it’s not a huge deal, because it’s not as if vast numbers of people are being falsely told Salmond is a liar – oh wait.


(It’s perhaps worth noting in passing at this point that around 173,000 EU citizens living in Scotland were explicitly prevented from voting in the EU referendum by the UK government, whereas the Scottish Government gave them a vote in the indyref. And that 16/17-year-olds were allowed to vote in the indyref but excluded from the EUref, lowering the numbers further. And perhaps also that the 2m who voted for the UK were expressly and specifically told they were voting for a UK inside the EU.)

JK Rowling has 9.1 million followers as we write this. While of course they won’t all be in the UK, that’s almost enough to actually win a general election. (Labour won in 2005 with under 9.6m.) It’s nudging on for twice the entire population of Scotland, and well over twice the electorate.

And while we already knew that Rowling doesn’t give a damn if anything she tweets is true or not, that’s still a scary amount of potential influence to be so cavalier with.

Because people who should know better – and who, unlike JK, were almost certainly watching Newsnight and know fine well it’s not true – will ride on her coat-tails and use the undeserved credibility conferred by her celebrity status in order to propagate the falsehood. People, for example, like Eddie Barnes, former Scotsman journalist and current Director Of Communications for the Scottish Conservatives.


And people like former Scottish Labour MP Anne McGuire.


And hundreds of others, with each retweet reaching different groups of people. So the empirical lie that Alex Salmond said something he didn’t say spreads its tentacles across the Twittersphere just as people are getting up and ready for work, irretrievably poisoning reality before anyone knows what’s happened. (Because we’d bet you good money that neither Brammar nor Rowling will retract or apologise for the error.)

We marvel, as always, that someone as obscenely wealthy as JK Rowling can find nothing better to do with her day than obsessively spread lies about Scottish politics to millions of people at 7.34am. But it’s a bit rich that she should do so in the guise of protecting the truth.

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    367 to “While the truth gets its boots on”

    1. Jamur says:

      A horrible cow.

    2. bobajock says:

      2M voted for UK with EU
      1.6M voted for EU

      Wonder what the 2M would be without the ‘promised’ EU.

    3. Peter says:

      How many of Rowlings followers actually vote tho ? Once you take children and the criminally insane out of the equation? Coupla hundred?

    4. Ron Maclean says:

      If Mr Salmond has been misrepresented, to his detriment, by the BBC or anyone else isn’t he one of the best placed people in Scotland to do something about it?

    5. jimnarlene says:

      What a tangled web, they weave, when they begin to deceive.

    6. jfngw says:

      Lets pursue her tweet and make a comparison.

      Indy vote:
      2M vote for UK
      1.6M voted leave UK

      EU vote:
      1.6M voted remain in EU
      1M voted leave EU

      So using the same jakey comparison
      1.6M voted leave UK
      1M voted leave EU

      So that’s 600k against 400k, so 200k more would prefer to leave the UK.

    7. Training Day says:

      Evan Davis also lied that ‘I’ve seen polls showing a majority of people don’t want an independence referendum’, unaccountably omitting to mention the caveat that that was ‘in 2017’ (he was corrected by Salmond).

      Just another example of the keystone-coppery perpetrated by lovable BBC chumps which is no way deliberate at all.

    8. gordoz says:

      I just don’t think she like the idea of ‘Scotland’ at all.

      Its like a British land mass / Team GB territorial thing. (All or bust)

      She won’t change her mind, its a real shame she has so much reach with impressionable people.


    9. Ken500 says:

      ‘Journalist’ and facts and numbers are hostages to the truth. Extremely poor standards.

      BBC Parliamentary Channel

      UK’s Negotiating Objectives

      Shambles. Unionists politicians very poor standards. Rambling.

    10. Bob MACK says:

      I have seen this phenomenon many times. Ordinary person comes into a lot of money, social circles inevitably change, outlook to accommodate the social circle always changes and usually to extremes to fit in.

      Salve your conscience by running a charity aimed at less well off. All is good. I am a philanthropist.

      Believe me, under the facade she is not truly happy, though she would deny that till the day she died.

      Unhappy days lie ahead for her without our input.

    11. galamcennalath says:

      bobajock says:

      2M voted for UK with EU
      1.6M voted for EU

      Wonder what the 2M would be without the ‘promised’ EU.

      That was my thought too.

      The NO vote was explicitly for staying in the EU, among many other promised things.

    12. In my opinion all those unionists live in an alternative realty with alternative facts and have so much in common with Trump.

      They have no option but to twist and distort what Alex Salmond said.

      How else can they maintain control of Scotland and preserve their union, they can hardly turn around now and tell people that everything they said previously was total lies now can they?

    13. One_Scot says:

      ‘Scottish politician joining in with the ‘alternative facts’ craze, there’

      In fairness to Jakey, there is a very strong possibility, it may just be the case that she is thick as shit.

    14. Ken500 says:

      2Million voted for UK to stay with the EU

      1.6 voted for EU
      Under different electoral rules. Different electorate. Different turnout. Different conditions.

      EU Ref excluded EU residents and 16/17 years olds. Whole UK based.
      IndyRef included 16/17 year olds higher turnout. Some EU citizens

      Both based on lies and promises not kept. Corrupt politicians.

    15. Stoker says:

      Rev wrote:

      “We’ve had some top experts check this one out for us, and it seems that 62 is indeed a bigger number than 55.”

      😀 😀

      As i’ve been going through the WOS Archives recently I’ve been contemplating which category is my favourite and it’s a tough call – either Scott Minto’s contributions or the Rev’s so and so is a liar series. The liar series just edges it. Top class ammo!

    16. HandandShrimp says:

      Did JK even see the interview. I think the liar here is the BBC and the usual suspects have jumped on it with glee without checking the false truth factory’s output.

      JK a Brexiteer now?

    17. heedtracker says:

      “That’s Jess Brammar, the BBC flagship show’s deputy editor,”

      You can more or less stop reading right there. Closer you get to the “broadsheet” end of the English media, the dirtier their tory propaganda gets. BBC r4 are tory and Britnat extremists though.

    18. Moonlight says:

      I cannot understand why JK should be so virulently anti Scotland’s democratic expression. This country supported and nurtured her when she was struggling, now she has wealth and the resulting power. There must be something, as yet undisclosed, which drives her vitriol.
      Of course, when you have such wealth, nothing much in the outside world can touch you. Apart from taxes and only then if you don’t have good accountants at your beck and call.
      So it’s a mystery, she could live anywhere in the world, in many places she could totally avoid making a contribution through taxes to her community. So what is it? If there were any investigative journalists left the mystery might be solved and the reasons for her bitterness exposed to the light of day.

    19. drew sword says:

      So you have troll factories in Scotland as well as in the USA

    20. tartanfever says:

      Stu, don’t complain about journalists, we’ve got to be nice to them.

      McKenna, Walker and Co will have a fit..

    21. Proud Cybernat says:

      Worldwide Book Sales:

      Corín Tellado 400 million
      JK Rowling 350 million

      I wonder if JK can explain why she is ranked above Tellado having 50 million less book sales?

      Perhaps something to do with percentages (%) Joanne?

    22. Ken500 says:

      Gibraltar is a tax haven supported by the Westminster Gov

      How much is this Brexit waste of time exercise costing taxpayers. £Billions?

    23. Gail Hughes says:

      We were already in the EU, there was a chance to vote to leave and only 25.5% of eligible voters felt strongly enough that they wanted to leave to be bothered to turn out and vote for it.

      While I don’t want to get into the game of attributing non-voters to one side or another, something that can me made to show just about anything, such as that a majority of the Scottish electorate did not vote to remain the UK, which is a perfectly true statement, it is hardly a demonstration of majority support to leave the EU if only a quarter of the voters can be bothered to even vote for it when they are given the chance.

    24. Ken500 says:

      Authors good at English, fantasy and proses. Not good at history, economic, geography, maths, accounts etc. Balance sheets. Or political internet use. Like trolling for free publicity. Keep the profile in the public eye – for sales. Try to build up low self esteem with reconfirmation from random strangers. Conceit.

    25. handclapping says:

      And how many EU citizens in Scotland were precluded from voting for the EU? And how many “voted for the UK” after being told that the only way to stay in the EU was to vote for the UK?

      JKR doesn’t know her apples from her pears

    26. Ken500 says:

      The EU Ref voters were restricted by electoral size by those the decision would affect the most in the whole UK. If it was more inclusive. By all the reports the Remain would have won. Won by 2% Not a great majority – based on lies – for such a major decision.

    27. I know it`s a different fantasy franchise but can`t help seeing JK as Smaug sitting on a nest of gold and jewels contemplating what mischief she can get up to with the common Scotch people,

      Jess Brammar just shows the ineptitude of the BBC staff,she either deliberately misrepresented Alex or, which I think more likely,she is just a second rate hack who doesn`t listen,to busy confirming her own prejudices to seek the truth.

    28. rog_rocks says:

      The JK’s version of reality is ridiculous and twisted. By far more logical standards I would like to point out to good old JK that in Scotland;

      1,617,989 voted to leave the UK

      Whereas only

      1,018,332 voted to leave the EU

      Far more want to leave the UK than the EU, so lets get on with it!

    29. Stoker says:

      I wonder if Donalda will take this up with Brammar? All in the interests of Scotland and factual accuracy you understand. Donalda, it’s over to you.

    30. dcanmore says:

      Can’t wait for her next book: Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fake News

    31. heedtracker says:

      More threat, Project Fear 2, via Harry Potter. England trades £55+bn back to their Scotland region, but no doubt they’ll shut it all down, out of the EU trade bloc England, no trade with Scotland. Very sane lot, our imperial master baiters.

      There’s certainly a lot riding on Heil Trump coming good, for England’s brave new trade world.

      J.K. Rowling Retweeted
      David Clegg ?@davieclegg 1h1 hour ago
      £49.8 billion of goods and services sold from Scotland to rest of UK in 2015. Equivalent figure for EU is £12.3 billion.

    32. Desimond says:

      People wonder “What is it with JK?”

      I think it may be something very simple.

      I don’t think she has the ability to feel she would belong in an Independent Scotland. Oh she would be welcome, anyone is, I think the problem is she would see herself as an outsider. Shes British, English, and deep down despite the open invitation, she could never feel actually Scottish in her heart of hearts.

      I think losing her identity terrifies her.

      So she does what every scared animal does. Lashes out and attacks as she is scared of the great unknown even when there is clearly nothing to fear.

    33. Ken500 says:

      Could some authors not be better employed by caring for underprivileged children in Thailand/Asia? When fleecing children in poverty in the UK/NI by supporting a political Party who murders and indiscriminately lies and engages in illegal war. Killing and maiming millions of innocent people and causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since WW11. Giving £Millions to support the privileged leaving people starving. Paying for the carnage. Supporting migrants/asylum being banned from the UK and Europe.

    34. heedtracker says:

      Is the painting on the great plagiarists twitter thingee, out of interest. As she sits on top of her giant cash mountain, desperately trying to keep England in control of her Scotland region.

      Great art meets bad art but you never know, 400 years time, Rowlings garbage books, and her terrible anti Scotland nation campaigning may be as admired and venerated, if a Trident nuke doesn’t explode in Argyll this afternoon maybe, tis all for rule Britannia:D

    35. Proud Cybernat says:

      £49.8 billion of goods and services sold from Scotland to rest of UK in 2015. Equivalent figure for EU is £12.3 billion.

      I hope SNP researchers are burning the midnight oil to nail this pish in time for I2.

    36. starlaw says:

      A walk round the supermarket with all the Union Jackery shows up how much the rest on the UK export to Scotland. ive heard we are their biggest customer, so they had best be nice to us.

    37. Calum McKay says:

      I wonder what she fears about an independent Scotland?

      A Scotland that takes care of its old, poor and vulnerable people rather than sub contracting that responsibility out to a right wing tory party in London who could not give a damn what Scots think, wish or aspire to?

      She is like a turd in a swimming pool!

    38. Ken500 says:

      Scotland receives £Billion of Investment Grants from the EU. EU membership saves £Billion in shared Defence £Billion. Westminster Gov tajes £Billion out of Scotland £20Billion a year. Take off the cost of production of exports. Scotland receives £Billions more from EU membership. Than from the UK Union, It is not just a question of exports or a trade balance. It is not just trade that defines an economy. It is tax regime -spending monies raised and kept. investment/Grants. Visitors. Population size, mineral assets, foreignpolifies, defence policies etc. Debt. Borrowing debt repayment. Creditors. Interest rates. Not just exports between countries. Scotland also exports to the rest of the world. Add it all in EU membership benefits Scotland more than UK unequal membership.

      Scotland exports and imports relatively the same. Does not have a balance of trade deficit. A balanced economy.

      The rest of the UK has a massive trade deficit. It manufactures less. Much more £Billions are imported than exported. A massive balance of payment deficit £Billions. Leading to a massive balance of payments and debt.£Trns. How ignorant are some Unionist supporters.Thinking export figures are the only contribution which affects the economy.

      Scotland raises £54Billion in tax revenues The rest of U.K. Raises £461 in tax revenues. Pro rats £42Billion £12Bilion more (without Oil revenues). What they can spend to maintain without borrowing. The borrow another £100Billion. The Westminster Gov operates false accounting system. Defrauds.

      The rest of the UK has to borrow £100Billion a year to cover their lack of production. £Trns in historical debt.

    39. Moonlight says:

      If we know what volume of goods is sold to England, why do we not know what volume of goods passes through English ports, from Scotland, to elsewhere, EU or otherwise. Seems to me that the accounting systems we have are not fit for purpose.
      Will England stop drinking whisky? Probably not, as brandy comes from the hated French or Spanish. However, Welsh whisky might catch on as it will be produced by loyal servants of the WM state.
      I really don’t think we should worry too much about this, after all Theresa tells us repeatedly that the big wide world wants to trade with England, why should they not wish to trade with Scotland.

    40. Ken500 says:

      It is not just exports and imports which define an economy. It is investment. Natural resources. Climate, geography, history. economics, taxation regime, health/education. Making decisions which aid an economy. Not taken from ignorant Tory/Unionists cutting the (Oil) production with higher and unfair taxes when the market price had fallen. Losing Scotland £Billions. £24Billion etc.

      Not equal treatment. Ilegally unfair investment in London S/E. On fraudulent projects to aid defraud from Tory/Unionists and their associates. Embezzling public funds and committing electoral fraud. Supporting tax evasion.

    41. gus1940 says:

      Totally O/T

      While we have long been accustomed to the ignorant misuse of the word ‘decimate’ and the similar misuse re ‘less’ and ‘fewer’ a new one has cropped up recently and is seen with monotonous regularity in the media:-

      The use of ‘sunk’ where it should be ‘sank’and vice versa.

      We get ‘the ship sunk’ when it should be ‘sank’ and ‘the ship was sank’ when it should be ‘sunk’.

      In fact The Daily Record has repeated the offence today.

    42. Phil Robertson says:

      There is a problem with the phrase “Far more people in Scotland, by majority and percentage …”. And it is in the use of “Far more people”.

      The majority and the percentage voting for Remain were both higher than that supporting the No campaign. No argument. But, as soon as you use the phrase “more people” then it understandable that other factors come into play e.g. the actual number of people in those votes.

      There is no law (yet) that says commentators have to restrict their musings to the parameters laid down by Alex Salmond.

      Instead of childish sophistry, why not discuss more substantive issues such as the state of Scottish education and the health service?

    43. Madcatwummin says:

      I really, really wish that Pro Indy folk would start hitting these twits with lawyers letters for spreading malicious falsehoods every time they do this kind of mince! I know that silly bint has loads of money…..but we can easily all crowdfund to pay for the lawsuits. I’m assuming she’s changed her mind again and her ten minute pro Indy pretence has evaporated again. …….one day she will get so cocky that she will mess up spectacularly!……..I hope everyone is watching and ready to make maximum Capitol out of it when she does!

    44. Ken500 says:

      Westminster claims they can’t collect separate figures. A click on a computer. They have done it for years. To cover up their illegal accounting systems and try and hide their deficit, They have been doing it for years. Leaving figures off the balance sheet. In separate accounts. Illegal war costs, Defence costs Oil revenues, VAT receipts etc.

    45. Robert Graham says:

      The Relevant Point of yesterdays Supreme Court judgement , the part that directly involves people in Scotland whatever their political views are, has been sidelined more or less airbrushed out of any discussion on TV News programmes , is this because this decision exposes a real flaw in the much loved Union namely that it is a fairytale , it’s not a Union when one half has no input no say in what happens , when it is applied to a Nation it is an Occupation there can be no other definition .
      As for people with an agenda turning the truth through 360 , unfortunately it takes time but eventually the Lie comes back to bite them on the Arse , thats when their credibility goes down the pan and whatever they say in the future is never believed again ,a bit like the often mis Quoted line by George Bush ” wont get fooled again ” .
      End of rant .

    46. heedtracker says:

      Calum McKay says:
      25 January, 2017 at 11:44 am
      I wonder what she fears about an independent Scotland?

      She’s an English nationalist. She knows that losing control of her Scotland region will diminish her country in several ways. And as we all know, England is the UK.

      This is a socio economic construct that’s been focused entirely on extracting resources and people from across the UK, the EU, the entire planet, and all of it centralised into the south east and London.

      But lurking under all that, lies the sheer domination and bullying that Rowling embodies, with everyone of her anti Scots tweet, we own you Scotland.

    47. harry mcaye says:

      I’m very pleased that I haven’t contributed one single penny to her success.

    48. Proud Cybernat says:

      “such as the state of Scottish education and the health service?”

      Aye–in spite of right-wing Tory austerity cuts, they’re performing better in Scotland than anywhere else in the UK.

      Hope that helped.

    49. Dorothy Devine says:

      I do wonder why folk with loadsa dosh and apparently rate Scotland as the dregs , still choose to live here?

      Why don’t they bugger off to somewhere where their LSD makes them happy?

    50. Nana says:

      O/T not sure if anyone has posted this yet

      More crap from the british bullshit channel

      Scotland’s trade with UK rises to £50bn

      50bn they say, any guesses how much by teatime?

      No doubt someone is cooking up another alien act to threaten us with.

    51. Macart says:

      None of those twatter worthies above the line are unfamiliar with ‘alternative facts’.

      Or was it some other celeb who used this analogy?

      ‘I’ve heard it said that ‘we’ve got to leave, because they’ll punish us if we don’t’, but my guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go. All the major political parties are currently wooing us with offers of extra powers, keen to keep Scotland happy so that it does not hold an independence referendum every ten years and cause uncertainty and turmoil all over again. I doubt whether we will ever have been more popular, or in a better position to dictate terms, than if we vote to stay.’

      Worked out well then.(cough)

    52. Ken500 says:

      Theresa May is a liar. She says that opposition policies would spend £1/2Billion more increasing the debt. The Tories have just borrowed over more than £1/2Billion putting up the debt. The UK debt is increasing under the Tories.

      The Tories are destroying the UK economy. May cruella de vile. A liar. Ignorant incompetent Tory/Unionists,

    53. frogesque says:

      Her books are shyte, give me Terry Pratchett’s any day.

    54. heedtracker says:

      Thanks Nana, classic display of BBC Scotland attack propaganda under all new and exciting Donalda Mac.

      “The UK government’s Scottish secretary, David Mundell, said the figures showed that the domestic market in the UK was “far and away” the most important market for Scotland’s businesses.

      He added: “The Scottish government’s own figures show our trade with the rest of the UK is worth four times our exports to the EU.”

      And if you even dare to try and run Scotland on your own vile seps, England will kill off all this market, is the vote NO or else blank, BBC creeps want you to fill in.

    55. Scott says:

      According TO BRILLO British sprits exports are up with gin being among the best no word from him that these sprits are from Scotland

    56. The obscenely wealthy will do or say anything to hang on to their loot.
      ‘BBC Staffer Lies Yet Again’ is such an everyday occurrence now that it is hardly Stop The Press! headline news.
      Filthy Rich Person With No Imagination, is equally as commonplace.
      If she were a bored EPL footballer on six figures a week, her body would be covered in tattoos by now.
      All that money and bored as feck.
      What’s a girl to do?
      Get a life, maybe?

    57. Headline on the EBC website a few minutes ago – “Scotland’s trade with UK rises to £50bn”. Followed by a one-sided article about how important they are to us.

      Yet again no comment from the SNP spokesperson about how much trade comes in the other direction! WHY NOT??? When the blazes are they going to start fighting back?

      Anyone reading that article would think independence is a crazy idea going by these figures and I wouldn’t blame them. What can you do when your representatives are given a heaven-sent opportunity to put across your side of the argument and they don’t bother?

    58. Ken500 says:

      If the rest of the UK doesn’t want Scottish goods. They will just go to other markets EU etc. High quality goods wanted worldwide. There a will be shortages of cheaper, quality goods in the rest of the UK. Exports to the rest of the UK will decrease and exports to the EU and elsewhere. A bigger market. 450Million pop. ECB invests £Billions in Scotland. That will increase and Oil exports will increase without production being decreased by Westminster Unionist high taxation policies. Losing thousands of jobs and £Billions in exports from Scotland.

    59. Jack Murphy says:

      Oh wait——it’s alright
      Scotland’s one Tory MP said yesterday:
      “Scotland’s voice is being heard clearly throughout the whole process.”

      Mr.David Mundell MP,Her Majesty’s Secretary of State for Scotland.

    60. Crabbit Geezer says:

      The “JK Rowling figures” were also given in the Scottish News last night. Can’t remember if it was Reporting Scotland or Scotland Tonight.

    61. Ben says:

      Really horrible woman it seems. Given how litigious she is , I’d consider a lawyers letter at very least. She’s calling him a liar by lying herself. Lot’s of professionals would take that very seriously

    62. Ken500 says:

      Alcohol Tory Brillo should know. Clouded judgement.

    63. Roland Smith says:

      The Remain vote would have been substantially higher if 16/16 year olds and EU citizens were allowed to vote.
      Indeed the 2014 vote would have been different as well if EU citizens knew then voting No meant leaving the EU.

    64. Susan Macdiarmid says:

      perhaps she is too dim to understand the difference between proportional and absolute figures.

    65. Capella says:

      Such a petty lie. So easily exposed. If you read WoS, of course. Which I am certain increasing numbers of journalists are doing. Not the Newsnight ones obviously.

      As for JK Rowling. Never read her books. Looked at one but can’t be bothered with it. Ursula le Guin’s “Earthsea Trilogy” was the template for the “boy wizard goes to college” type story. JK hasn’t progressed from lifting fantasy ideas from other people.

    66. dandy dons 1903 says:

      See the britstate and assorted stooges are back trying to bully and intimidate Scotland just like they did back in sept 2014 with threats of economic terrorism against an independent Scotland.

    67. Capella says:

      No idea where that random avatar came from. Hope my ballerina is restored!

    68. Macart says:

      Either they have completely and innocently misunderstood the person and the premise (though it seems a very straightforward one to grasp), or they are quite deliberately misrepresenting the person and the premise.

      Perhaps they could enlighten…?

      Eventually? Ever?

    69. Ken500 says:

      The Westminster Illegal Tory Gov is one of the only administration in the world who have banned renewables and support nuclear. Total crass, criminal ignorant incompetence.

      Johanna Cherry excellent.

    70. Orri says:

      To me a key phrase in all this is “in Scotland”.

      The Daily Record made a big deal of the fact that polling after the fact showed that if the 2014 vote had been only amongst those born in Scotland the result would have been a very narrow Yes victory.

      What they seemed to ignore was that those same figures would have put the result at only 51% No.

      There are many explanations for that and some or all might be correct. People might have reported a different vote than they actually cast. However they might also report voting SNP so the effect of that would be lessened.

      One explanation is that the report is bang on. If the referendum had been restricted to only those resident in Scotland No would still have won but by a far less “convincing” margin.

      Registering to vote in more than one place is perfectly legal in the UK so postal voting by those resident outwith Scotland in a vote only taking place in Scotland would have been perfectly legal but not in a UK wide one and most people wouldn’t even bother.

      All considered you might make a punt at 300,000 No votes from outside Scotland if they were uniformly cast in one direction. Bringing No votes cast in Scotland down to 1.7 million.

      Of course we’ll never know how many votes were cast from outwith Scotland or the exact breakdown.

    71. Neil Cook says:

      Jk might well have 9.6 million but the % will be mostly deluded children or adolescent teenagers mollycoddled by the same ignorant parents that wizards & warlocks exist.
      The same ignorant folk that actually think WM does a good job and flag waving and facism is good for the Country.

    72. The Isolator says:

      Can someone on twatter not retwat something along the lines of English fiction writer joining in with “propaganda “craze ,right there.

      Should be worth a titter?

    73. woosie says:

      Rolling Jakey can surely expect advice from Pierced Organ; actors shouldn’t talk about politics, co-presenters shouldn’t disagree with him, people who write kids’ books shouldn’t – say anything.

    74. Robert Graham says:

      O/T i used to dislike Maggie when she was answering at PMQs , but this current Mrs May takes the annoyance to a whole new level like scratching a blackboard on steroids , and her stuttering machinegun answers have me reaching for the mute button . This is apart from every time she opens her mouth she is Lying she as Ruthie cant differentiate fact from fiction .

    75. Ken500 says:

      What happens if the Tories are voted out before there is any deal. Any trade deals could take ten years.

      The lying, fraudulent Tories ruining the economy going backwards. Procrastinators. When will something be done about the illegal electoral fraud in 31 Constituencies and by UKIP embezzlement of public funds.

    76. Ken500 says:

      The IndyRef1 was restricted to residents in Scotland.

    77. Macca73 says:

      JK Rowling, a woman who will say anything in defence of the union to point score even whilst it’s pulling it’s knickers down ready to accept anything that Trump throws at it whilst walking away from our friends in the EU.

      Shameful …

      Still .. she sleeps well at night I’m sure.

    78. Nana says:

      @Dave Beveridge

      Whenever an SNP mp or msp is asked to comment, the bbc make damn sure they lose the connection so the listener doesn’t get to hear the truth.

      Here is this mornings latest bbc technical difficulty which happens a lot when SNP are on.

      Somehow I doubt the SNP get asked to comment that often.

      Someone a while back suggested a ‘Don’t pay the tv tax campaign’
      Perhaps one could be started at the next outing to Pacific Quay.

      Re the article and Jess Brammar

    79. jake says:

      Gullible JK Rowling falls for fake news tweet spread by BBC deputy editor!

    80. asklair says:

      This indyref2 is going to be fought for in a very different way, from what I see, read and feel.

    81. Macart says:


      I wonder if Ms Rowling will likewise correct her own tweet?

    82. Nana says:


      Mmmm doubt it Sam, she likes fiction too much.

    83. Big Jock says:

      Not only that if you are given a vote and don’t turn up to vote. You don’t exist as far as I am concerned in referendum terms. You don’t then get to complain that 38% of people are too lazy to vote but still think their opinion matters.

      The result is a percentage of the actual vote, not a percentage of the eligible vote. We are into fantasy land with this type of logic.

      JK was quick to tweet that the EU vote had changed her opinion on indi. That lasted about a week and now she is back to being a fully conscripted ideological unionist bammer!

    84. Derick fae Yell says:

      13.5% of Irish exports go to the UK (including Northern Ireland and Scotland).

      14.4% of Danish exports go to Germany

      6.7% of Norwegian Exports go to Sweden

      And we are expected to believe that 64% (49.8bn/77.5bn) of Scottish non-oil exports go to the UK? Aye right.

    85. Mr Brian McGrath says:

      Forget about JK she is a writer of fiction.

      I mean yes she managed to get some dickheads to think Quidditch is a real sport but the sane folks just shake their heads and carry on.

    86. Effijy says:

      Indy Ref 1-
      Bitter To Get You:

      Scaremongered that Scotalnd could only remain in the EU, if they voted No. So now that this wasproven to be an out and out Lie, I’d suggest that up to 10% of No votes were based on that premis.
      This of course would have resulted in an Independent Scotland being with us today.

      They also claimed that there would be no old age pension in an Independent Scotland, while it was actually Guaranteed due to our payments inti the treasury.

      We wouldn’t have access to a Transoplant List or Blood Transfusion Services in Scotland?
      A jaw dropping Lie from Millionaire Socialist Gordon Clunker Brown.

      We would get a £1 Billion Carbon Capture Plant in Peterhead with a No. You guested it. Project cancelled after the a No vote.

      How about the on-going £3 Billion develpment of renewable
      energies in Scotland. Cancelled after the No vote.

      The 3,000 HMRC jobs that Scotland had could only survive with a No vote. Well No came and the Jobs were then sent to Croyden in the South of England.

      13 New ships for the Clyde depend on a No Vote.
      Well some of these ships sailed of into the unknown sunset of Westminster.

      Do you live in a Near Federal State, have Home Rule, Extensive new powers? No well the No vote was to give you them as a Guarantee. Clunker Promised it. Remember?

      We are equal partners in the UK other than it doesn’t matter a damn what we vote for, we just need to do what England tells you.

      Westminster suggests that we have built up massive debts?
      How can that be when this equal partner has never, ever, been allowed to Borrow Money?

      Why does Scotland not have a £600,000,000 oil fund like our neighbours in Norway have retained from their oil revenues?

      Westminster is a top ten in the most corrupt and abusive governments on the planet. We must leave them ASAP.


    87. heedtracker says:

      Klassy as ever old UKOK JK. Money cant buy you good grace and manners.

      Jess BrammarVerified account

      Jess Brammar Retweeted J.K. Rowling
      .@AlexSalmond did say by proportion/percentage – i didn’t mean to suggest otherwise! Twitter so tricky, as everJess Brammar added,

      J.K. Rowling @jk_rowling
      1.6m voted for EU
      2m voted for UK
      Scottish politician joining in with the ‘alternative facts’ craze, there. …

      J.K. Rowling ?@jk_rowling 20m20 minutes ago
      .@jessbrammar But if that’s the game we’re playing, I’d love to hear his views on the 1 in 3 SNP voters who voted Leave!

    88. GrahamB says:

      O/T There’s a good analysis of yesterday’s Supreme Court ruling by Martin Hannan in today’s National (page 6).
      Although the case was specifically about Brexit the more general conclusion was that ministers are not allowed to use the Royal Prerogative to override statute and common law unless there is specific legislation. Therefore all similar moves have to be debated, OK it’s in Westminster with its inbuilt Tory majority and useless Labour ‘opposition’, so no more legislation by Trump style executive orders.

    89. Glamaig says:

      @Dave Beveridge
      ‘When the blazes are they going to start fighting back?’

      they do, on their twitter feed at least. I wouldn’t know if they do so in their press releases, maybe because the press dont report them?

    90. heedtracker says:

      Be great to hear why Scottish exports to England would end after indy too, from JK. Out of the EU, no more trade with Scotland, England’s going to be very keen to trade with who, for gawds sake. The Moon? The Moon’s English.

      J.K. Rowling Retweeted
      Duncan Hothersall ?@dhothersall 3h3 hours ago
      63% of Scottish exports are to rUK; 16% are to EU.
      Both these markets are critical.
      Leaving the UK quadruples the problems of leaving the EU

    91. One_Scot says:

      Sky news – ‘PM asked what powers will go to Scottish Parliament following Brexit’,

      Ehh, probably none, if not less.

    92. robertknight says:

      U K Rowling leading the charge of the Yoon Brigade yet again. I’m sure she’s looking forward to throwing more of her wealth at whatever bullshit-the-jocks-into-staying campaign gets created to counter Yes2.

      She could always create her own campaign. I wonder what she’d call it… I’ve a few suggestions, none of them printable here ’cause her legal minions would be on my case quicker than you can say awa’n bile yer heid.

    93. Macart says:


      Probably a fan of the old adage ‘any publicity is good publicity’.

      Personally when someone is found to be in the wrong, or misrepresents another, I find it far more admirable if they simply hold their hands up and say ‘I got that wrong’.

      But each to their own… I suppose.

    94. Big Jock says:

      There is nothing that the UK can do to Scotland that will change these loonies. They are fundamentalists. If they cleared Glasgow and replaced it with sheep they would still maintain the Union and WM was Scotland’s friend.

      Look at what’s happened and still they don’t get it or pretend they don’t. Forget these people , we will do it despite them.

    95. Stoker says:

      Will someone please explain heedtrackers post at 1:44pm for me? Am i reading it correctly? Is Brammar tweeting to Rowling that Alex Salmond did say by proportion/percentage and that she didn’t mean to suggest otherwise? Also, that twitter was so “tricky, as ever.”

      If so, AYE! RIGHT!
      Did the Rev not preempt that excuse in the article above?
      If it’s that tricky, Brammar, then stay away from it you liar.

    96. David Wardrope says:

      Re: JKs influence,

      I don’t go to Lars Ulrich or James Hetfield for advice on where to stream music online, and I F*****G LOVE Metallica. Its disappointing to think folks base her political opinions on the belief that she writes books well to a childrens level.

      That is all.

    97. Luigi says:

      A wee bit of egg on yoon face this afternoon, methinks.

      Well done, Rev. 🙂

      Alex Salmond is a master at winding up the Britnat Brigade and their media chums. He must be chuckling away, at how easy they are to set up (yet again). 🙂

    98. Clydebuilt says:

      You have to ask is it Jay Kay’s fingers doing the tweeting at that early hour of the day.

    99. K1 says:

      So Bettertogether are getting their band back together…here we go folks, the first salvo’s are being fired, duds all of them.

      This push on the export/import pish is obviously something they think is going to work for them. The simple response to that is: as an independent country in the EU single market we will have access to a half billion consumers, whether England and it’s principality wish to trade with us is entirely up tae them. It’s fanciful to suggest that England won’t trade with Scotland just because there is no political Union, England is not in political union with other independent nations and still they trade with them.

      JK Howling is merely regurgitating the fake news she claims to be against. She’s literally just revealed that she is as gullible as the next person who falls for this sort of word play, she didn’t check to see if it had any veracity before she knee jerked her reaction. So her inbuilt bias against Scotland’s self determination came into play again. It won’t make any difference, she spent her load last time round…we all know the players now.

      Just keep focused on the real arguments: Sewel convention isn’t worth the paper it is written on. The vow was a total lie, the 50 amendments that SNP will bring forward will be ignored, every last one, just like the 250 odd amendments during the Smith commission.

      There will be no ‘federal’ solution, there will be no vow, we are being dragged out of the EU. Tory rule for the next 10 to 20 years, even more likely UKIP will gain a hold in Westminster parliament.

      Scotland is either a region or a nation. By all means get stuck in wi the economics but don’t be fooled again arguing with them on the ground that they are choosing, like the last time, there is far more to Scotland’s independence than money, we are not ‘too poor’ and this export/import stuff is just that same argument, they deploy this as they know it worked.

      We need to shift the emphasis and move the arguments to where our strengths lie, Scotland is a left of centre polity, workers rights, human rights, Trident, wars, demonisation and the othering of immigrants, renewables and climate change. The economy is an issue in terms of food prices, money in people’s pockets after brexit, public services decimated by Tory policies et al.

      KISSovereign Scotland.

    100. Mr Clean says:

      Hello.. Very long time lurker here.. Just a thought to all the other lurkers who use this site .. I’ve had enough of EBC propaganda and have cancelled my tv license fee..

      Why should we pay to listen to this shite.. Any other service we don’t like we cancel..Lets kick them where it hurts!

      C’mon fellow lurkers lets do our bit .. Maybe give some more cash to the Indy cause..

      Thanks Rev and contributors for Wings.. I’m away back lurk for a while ?..

    101. Iain says:

      Strange too that in the EU referendum, nationals of other EU countries who have chosen to make Scotland their home and who contribute to Scottish society were denied a vote, while UK citizens who have lived abroad for years, decades even, were granted a vote. Framing the rules to manipulate the outcome, surely not?

    102. Stoker says:

      I’m pinching a variation of that, K1.


      (Keep It Simple, Scotland)

    103. Dan Huil says:

      The bbc continues to parade the britnat line. That won’t be changing any time soon. From what I’ve read it seems the bbc is espcially keen on pushing the “but nobody wants another referendum” line.

      The britnat media in general echo such opinion, expressing it as “fact” of course. I see it as desperation on the britnats’ part and I’m not too bothered about it.

      Neither am I too concerned that the britnat media is collectively placing their grubby hands other their ears and shouting “la la la la” in order to blank out any thoughts about Scotland.

      I see no harm in letting the britnat media live in its own wee non-Scotland world. All the greater surprise when IndyRef2 is declared. All the more impact for us.

    104. heedtracker says:

      Never mind some inexplicably rich nutcase in her UKOK Embro mansion, same crew she’s tweet chums with are currently selling tory NHS progression towards their GP’s turning into dentists. Still freeish, to see their GP, but its still going to be charge too.

      Rotten teeth are one thing…

    105. Stoker says:

      K1 wrote:

      “There will be no ‘federal’ solution, there will be no vow,”

      ffs! Thought you were about to give us your Jimmy Reid impression.

    106. Jim Main says:

      Whilst it is certainly vexing – infuriating even – I wonder just how many of her fans actually vote according to her cossetted millionaire ‘See me, Ah’m a pure Socialist me’, world view ? I’m guessing precious few.
      As for the re-tweets from the Yoons…they are largely preaching to the converted.
      It doesn’t hurt to ‘out’ a Fibber though, especially such high profile ones.

    107. robertknight says:

      Someone should point out Indy Scotland wouldn’t be trading with rUK, but the trade would be between rUK and the EU, of which the Kingdom of Scotland and the RoI would simply be the nearest EU members to the rUK.

      As an EU Member State, the Kingdom of Scotland would have unfettered access to a market far bigger than anything the rUK could offer.

      If goods from Scotland route via English ports/railheads/distributors to the rEU, instead of directly to the continent via air or out of Rosyth/Greenock, is that not classed as trade with England, despite the final point of sale/use being a non-English one? If so then ‘lies, damned lies and statistics’ applies.

    108. K1 says:

      Oor Andra summarises the ‘meaning’ of yesterday’s SC ruling for Scotland precisely and succinctly:

      ‘Now the Prime Minister must table her Brexit Bill – a Bill which, critically, is susceptible to amendment. Theresa May has already lost control over the Brexit process. The Lords are certain to cut up rough. SNP sources confirm MPs have up to 50 different amendments in mind. We can expect these to be vigorously resisted by No 10 and its allies in the media. The hope may be forlorn, nothing useful may come of it, but it is worth one final, desperate shot.’

      One last nail in the coffin for the Union and we’ll be on our way.

    109. Capella says:

      @ K1 – as with voting percentages, 500 million trading partners in Europe is a bigger number than 50 million trading partners in England. Wonder if the Unionist stalwarts will tweet that that doesn’t “count”.

    110. K1 says:

      Aye well there’s a wee bit o’ Jimmy Reid in aw ae us Stoker, and yes that is much better…we need something simple, yours is a better fit than mine, ah knew sombudy wid dae sumthin’ wi that! 😉 (glad it wis you)

    111. HandandShrimp says:

      The BBC is such a blatant British State propaganda outfit I am embarrassed for them.

      Either my consciousness is raised or they have got really really blatant and not very clever with it.

    112. K1 says:

      It ‘counts’ okay…yer average punter in the street urny daft Capella and it’s them we need to reach, in essence we treat each other as if we’re no ‘too stupid’. 🙂

      Put down the maisters tools…an aw that. *winks at Cameron 😉 *

    113. Les Wilson says:

      I watched PMQ’s today to see how our MP’s were treated, same old, same old as far as that is concerned. However, I am a bit pissed off that they did not rage at the PM over the lie of devolve parliament. Where Scotland has been lied to. When will we see some real anger from our MP’s in there.

      They raise questions and are always courteous etc, but something like this issue is a biggie, they should have tore into them.

      Also it is about time the “union” question was brought out into the open, ie if we are not equals, do we still have a “Union” at all?
      Being equal is what is written, but this has been broken in so many ways over the years. It is time we assert ourselves more in defense of Scotland and our real standing as equals in a “Union” with only 2 sovereign governments.

      I want to see and hear Westminster answer these questions,live on tv.

    114. David G.Higgins says:

      I’m new to putting messages on this site, having followed it since the referendum, but I think the time has come! It didn’t take long for the ‘Better Together big hitters’ (oh how terrifying!) to get to work: what a load of utter mince! Prepare for this every day from now on, although I don’t think the population will be fooled again. (I hope!)

    115. Orri says:

      Indyref1 was not restricted to those resident in Scotland. The way the rules on postal votes are written we have no idea just how many registered to vote in Scotland live here nor how many used their perfectly legal postal vote to determine the future of the country their holiday homes were in. Some of the drop in turnout in the EU referendum might be due to them voting in their usual place of residence.

      It was restricted to those registered to vote in Scotland though.

    116. Pete says:

      Really disappointed with Hosie on Daily Politics .
      Once again, Neil skewered his statistics so much so that he stated he would get back to him with the correct figures.
      What do these MP’s do with their time ?
      Too much womanising it would appear!!

    117. SpainwantsGibraltar Back says:

      JK Rowling is the UK’s own Ronald McDonald a character to punt junk to kids

    118. Big Jock says:

      I would rather be on the right side than be on the side of the wealthy and the establishment. The self preservationists like JK think that money is all that matters. What the EU vote was about for most people was their social and cultural ties with Europe.

      We must move the debate away from the crudeness and shallowness of money. Most people woke up after the vote an felt a sense of great loss and that wasn’t money or the single market. It felt like the racists and bigots had won.

      The EU is not about money! It’s my passport , my freedom to roam, my friends from EU nations and part of my identity.

      We will not win an argument over money. But we can win an argument over our cultural identity in the wider European sense.

    119. dandy dons 1903 says:

      As regards Economic blackmail from ENG/RUK.

      Have these fools not thought about where they are going to go to replace the goods they dont want from an indy Scotland? Sounds like more desperate yoon/britstate bluff and lies, very much project fear mk2 only this time the bs can be shot down rather easily.

    120. Andrew McLean says:

      Is it not ironic that JKR’s latest spat is down to the fact she trusted the BBC?

      Was it true JK? or did you see it on the BBC!

    121. Dave Hansell says:

      J. K. Rowling coming out as a serial liar.

      Who would have thought it? A writer of fiction unable and unwilling to tell the truth.

    122. Proud Cybernat says:

      Trade? MC sums it up…

    123. Robert Peffers says:

      @starlaw says: 25 January, 2017 at 11:43 am:

      “A walk round the supermarket with all the Union Jackery shows up how much the rest on the UK export to Scotland. ive heard we are their biggest customer, so they had best be nice to us”

      Aye! Starlaw, but you can bet that when they do the books those thingies wi Union Jackets are accounted as being retailed as TESCO, ASDA, Summerfield or Sainsbury UK wide sales. In any case the VAT collected by the retail giants on behalf of the de facto Parliament of England Treasury and the tax of the retail giants, (if any), is all marked as internal UK sales.

      These figures are Scottish when it suits England/UK and UK/English when it suits UK/England.

      The only way we will ever get real facts is when we do Scotland’s books in an independent Scotland’s own treasury using figures from our own Scottish Customs & Excise Office.

    124. rogerM says:

      An inconvenient truth from 40 years ago surfacing

      Of course, a collision of nuclear submarines 30 miles from Glasgow isn’t important even to be a main headline.

    125. Andrew McLean says:

      A email just in

      Dear Andrew

      Picture the scene: Scottish 38 Degrees members face-to-face with the only Scottish politician in the Westminster cabinet, demanding a Brexit that works for everyone in Scotland. In 48 hours Alex, Mary-Clare, and Jenny will be doing just that – meeting their local MP, David Mundell. (He’s the Scottish Secretary in the Westminster government)

      This Friday, they’ll be talking to him about Scotland and Brexit. Right now, nobody is clear about what’s going to happen with Scotland and Brexit – but we’ve got two days to make sure David Mundell knows that we demand Scotland’s voice is heard in Westminster. [1]

      Just imagine his reaction this Friday, when he’s handed a huge petition signed by all of us, calling on him to stand up for Scotland. His job is to represent the voices Scottish people in Westminster so he’ll have no choice but to listen.

      Andrew, we only have 48 hours: will you take a second to sign the petition? It only takes one click to add your name automatically and here’s what it says:

    126. robertknight says:

      A bit harsh guys…

      U K Rowling, OBE, (Overtly British Establishment), could simply be looking to upgrade her Govt. gong for a CBE, (Certifiably British Establishment) .

      After all, if the Channel Islands-based lover of all things Scottish and Unionist Tessa Hartmann, CBE, can get one, then surely a volley of SNP Bad tweets is all that’s required and it’s in the tartan bag! (Perhaps Neill Oliver should just try harder).

    127. Meg merrilees says:

      Les Wilson

      Like you I noticed that there was no mention of the devolved issue at PMQ’s, but we never get to hear or see Scottish Questions which precedes PMQ’s and I wonder what we miss by not hearing that. However, at the debate (tomorrow?) the SNP is expected to table in excess of 50 amendments to the Brexit bill so they may well intend to raise relevant issues then.

      I’m waiting for the video to come up on the Parliament TV channel so I can listen in and understand what Scottish issues were discussed earlier today.
      Of course, this is with Fluffy Mundell and not the PM.

      Don’t forget it’s FMQ’s tomorrow in Holyrood but they’ll probably be about the cost of parking and the failings of butchers to sell haggis at a reasonable price – don’t hold your breath!

      One thing is for sure (t)Ruthless will manage, somewhere in her speech, to admonish Nicola for causing uncertainty in the country and urge her to drop this nonsense of breaking up the Union, whilst totally failing to see the irony of her remarks.

      Kl maybe we need our Billboards and the Advan to have a new question…


    128. gordoz says:

      O/T (Tried to send in to REV but no way to attach ) 🙁

      Anybody else seen these ??

      Got local list Highlands & Islands MSP leaflet in today very nearly no mention that he’s a Tory at all (only in the small print).

      All lovely stuff; local issues for local people – & pics of what hes doing + a survey to sample interest in indyref2.

      Shhhh dont mention the Tories though !!! Absolutely no Tories !!

    129. Robert Peffers says:

      @gus1940 says: 25 January, 2017 at 11:54 am:

      “In fact The Daily Record has repeated the offence today.”

      You must realise, Gus1940 that the Daily Wrecker, like all publications, must cut its cloth to suit its customer base.

      If it caters for a thick as planks customer base it must use a thick as planks English to suit its readership but if it has a customer base of English Literature Reviewers then it has to dumb down its English Grammar a bit.

      I’ll get my coat!

    130. galamcennalath says:

      robertknight says:

      As an EU Member State, the Kingdom of Scotland would have unfettered access to a market far bigger than anything the rUK could offer.

      …. plus, access via trade deals with lots of other nations around the world.

      If Scotland is dragged out of the EU we lose not only the market there, we lose out on all the trade deals they have negotiated.

      The Brexiteer would say in response, Blighty will negotiate all its own trade deals shortly.

      Ok, who do you trust to get GOOD trade deals for us, Tory London or Brussels? Emphasis on good.

      The UK was all for TTIP, but others across Europe had too many reservations. The UK will sign up to a TTIP type deal in an instant, but it will be a really awful deal flooding us with crap food and drugs, and destroying the NHS in England and here.

      Brexit is a really really bad idea! No getting away from it. Bugger all to gain, masses to lose.

    131. heedtracker says:

      Too much womanising it would appear!!

      Not enough more like:D

    132. Andrew McLean says:

      The age-standardised mortality rate (ASMR) for the UK
      In 2015, the ASMR for England was 986.6 deaths per 100,000 population, compared with 1,064.4 in Wales, 1,177.3 in Scotland and 1,045.2 in Northern Ireland.

      So in this Union your life expectancy is worse.


      contact the rev here

    133. It is reported today that whisky exports hit £4 billion last year, the UK’s biggest export.
      We’re ‘too rich’, too essential to the English Empire’s BoP, for England to ‘let us go’.
      The Quivering Wreck Mundell gurgles that it is ‘The Scottish Government’s own figures’ when he trots out the ‘four times as much’ export to the English Empire than the EU nonsense.

      It is time for a serious piece of work to do done on this.
      The official figures are incomplete, some companies don’t bother contributing to the exercise, and OBR/ONS/Treasury Office/DWP/HMRC input is riddled with omissions, guesstimates, and who knows what?
      We’re too big,too rich, too clever for the English to contemplate us being their EU neighbour and competitor.
      Fast forward to September ’18; Scotland overwhelmingly votes Yes and retains its EU membership.
      The EU is negotiating Brexit terms with the Darling Duds of May.
      The English Empire will not be in a position to come after Scotland and single us out for punishment for having the temerity to exercise our democratic right to end the Treaty of Union.
      We will be part of a 500 million strong Trading Bloc which will be taking on the minnow, England. The worm will have turned.
      We’ll be as powerful as Malta or Luxemburg.
      ‘Our Da can beat you Da at fightin, John Bull’, if you like.
      Mundell is a sinister little Fifth Columnist who has done nothing for the People of Scotland in his pointless sinecure for 5 1/2 years.
      One immediate saving in Free Scotland?
      The tens of millions we spend on a pointless SoS for Scotland, his bloated staff , Magnus Gardham, and the office space.
      No matter the actual trade figures, England can’t afford to lose us, when we go it alone, within the EU.
      The penny will drop soon now.

    134. Greannach says:

      Maybe Jakey Rowling simply is as stupid as she seems – beatific smile or no.

    135. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 25 January, 2017 at 11:55 am:

      Instead of childish sophistry, why not discuss more substantive issues such as the state of Scottish education and the health service?

      Good idea, Phil. The independent Scottish Education Service is in a far more healthy state, in every way, than that of any of the three Kingdom of England countries education services. Furthermore, the independent Scottish NH Service is in a better state in every way than any, and all, of the Kingdom of England’s NH Services.

      That is a statistical fact.

    136. Ken says:

      “Bint” might be acceptable but “cow” is not.

    137. Meg merrilees says:

      Robert Knight 3.33pm

      RE Neil Oliver
      Apparently Dr. Kenneth Brophy of Glasgow University has rubbished the BBC for its recent programme on Orkney
      fronted by none other than Mr. Neil-I’ve-gone-to-New-Zealand-to-get-away-from-the-SNP Oliver.

      He dismissed the programme’s theory that it was the capital of the UK 6000 years ago, said that the programme’s title was ‘nonsensical’ and made no sense in a Neolithic content and refuted the suggestion that Orkney was merely an ‘appetiser for.. Stonehenge.’

      I guess Dr. Brophy must be SNP. Why else would he say something like that about Neil Oliver’s programme?

    138. gordoz says:

      @Andrew McLean

      Cheers Bud contacting REV as we speak

    139. yesindyref2 says:

      Most excellent. I did see it via google and wonder.

      The problem is that so many Unionists do this distortion thing, and there’s not enough hours in the day to correct each and every one of them. Specially since even if you prove they’re wrong, they just continue with the lie. Which gets picked up by others.

      Same even with just wrong info, I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve seen people posting “Scotland is only 7% of the UK’s population”. No it isn’t, it’s 8.4%. But they do the same again and again, and again and again. Misinformation by repetition.

    140. Nana says:

      A few links

      Brexit: Microsoft is latest major company to threaten to pull business from the UK

      Theresa May refuses to rule out private US firms taking over NHS services

    141. FatCandy says:

      I’ve written this elsewhere but thought it were relevant here.

      The SNP were elected by the people of Scotland to “protect Scotland’s people and her interests”. With the SNP having a majority of Scottish MPs in Westminster, a majority of Scottish MEPs and a workable pro-independence majority (together with the Scottish Greens) in Holyrood, what more democratic mandate do they need from Scots to protect Scotland? The Scottish councils too? Then what? Another plebiscite, framed as the worst case scenario, in a post-truth world against the might of the UK government propaganda being readily disseminated by the state broadcaster (the cost of which is heavily footed by Scots)?

      The time for indyref2 is over. In times of national emergency it is up to a democracy’s elected representatives to take action on behalf of the people in order to protect them. They have the democratic mandate to do so and I would hazard a guess that they’ll not get the same mandate for it again, so they need to do what needs to be done and make the call and declare independence. Get Sturgeon and a delegation to the UN for ratification and apply make the membership application to the EU (we’re leaving anyway so why dither?).

      This article highlights exactly why IndyRef2 will be lost and independence supporters are so busy fannying about with the question of “when” they’re not questioning whether another referendum is the right course of action.

    142. Ian McCubbin says:

      Just been talking to a friend about SM and seems from his research that google facebook and twitter may be able to censor contributors. So not only are truthful causes like indpendence for Scotland and its credible politicians up against it all of us are.
      I wonder if anyone has taken JK Rowling on.
      I will if I can find her tweets and am not blocked.How about some more of us challenging her.
      We may be censored though, or blocked for disagreeing with her facts.

    143. gordoz says:

      Jeez, what a State finds hersel in ?

      Who was it who said “If not an embrace of equals, then surely this is nothing more than a restraint against will”

      – a measure or condition that keeps someone or something under control. “decisions are made within the financial restraints of anothers budget”

    144. JLT says:

      This definitely seems to be the present argument being presented by Unionist politicians and their supporters; the 2 million votes of the 2014 Referendum beats the 2016 result. As we all know, it’s utter nonsense for 2 reasons; one – the argument as presented by the Rev, and two – that circumstances have significantly changed since the 2014 result. We know this …and so do they. They know fine well the truth of this.

      At this stage, I’m wondering if the SNP now need to take a much more stern tone with the opposition in both Parliaments. I think the time of reasonable argument might, technically, be over. Don’t get me wrong, Nicola and everyone involved in the front line of Scottish politics have been phenomenal ever since the Brexit result, but after the Supreme Courts judgement yesterday and the continual being ignored by Westminster approach, I believe the time has come for a more direct line of hammering the case home.

      I think we have got to a stage (just as we are about to enter a period of chaos) where we know we have right on our side, and thus, being protected by that fact, then by taking a more direct tone and line with the arguments, it might just get one key politician on the opposition benches to make a critical error by either spilling the beans on how they REALLY do see Scotland, or at least letting us know politically, that we matter not.

      If we are going to get soft No voters to sit up, then rather than us saying it (like we do all the time), I think at this stage, we need the opposition to do the work for us. If we can get the odd one to make that one critical mistake, then it could be gold dust. If one of them did trip up, the No voters will pick up on it, and finally realise, just what sort of Union and democracy they really do live under. I think we now need real admissions from the opposition to finally push the case home.

      That video above is a key example. You can see it in the faces of the Unionist politicians. There is a look of contempt on all faces. I believe that contempt can be used to our advantage by just giving them a little nudge. That might be all it takes…

    145. Phil Robertson says:

      Robert Peffers says:
      25 January, 2017 at 3:49 pm
      “The independent Scottish Education Service is in a far more healthy state, in every way, than that of any of the three Kingdom of England countries education services. Furthermore, the independent Scottish NH Service is in a better state in every way than any, and all, of the Kingdom of England’s NH Services.
      That is a statistical fact.”

      As far as the recent PISA findings are concerned, your final sentence is incorrect.

      More generally, the kneejerk response that things are worse elsewhere is of little comfort to those waiting for operations in Grampian or stuck in a corridor in A&E at the QEU hospital.

    146. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave Beveridge says: 25 January, 2017 at 12:25 pm:

      “Yet again no comment from the SNP spokesperson about how much trade comes in the other direction! WHY NOT??? “

      I could explain it all again, Dave, but why should I bother?

      Nothing will change your real agenda here. Just one more SNP BAAAD! poster claiming SNP BAAAD! yet again.

      Everyone with any real knowledge of the politics of unionism knows full well the quoted figures are utter mince.

      For example much of the goods, services and produce of Scotland are accounted for by Westminster as English Exports as they count exports by where they leave the UK as being from the UK country of exit and not by the UK country of origin.

      Then we have the goods and services sold in Scotland by the UK wide but mainly London Registered companies. These are obviously not separated by country but counted as UK. However, when they do the books you must remember that to Westminster departments there is no country of England.

      Just as there is no Parliament of the country of England, as Westminster is the de facto Parliament of England, (and if you require proof of that then look at EVEL legislation).

      The point is that the Scottish Government has no access to any other figures than those the de facto parliament allows them to use.

      This is why they must publish the GERS Figures for they have no others to reference.

      As to the idiotic claims that the elected SNP members don’t speak out that is mince. You can send or phone a press release to a Unionist rag but you cannot make them publish or broadcast it.

      Anyone who wants to hear or read what the SG or SNP MPs do, say or write won’t find it on the Westminster Propaganda output.

      Sign up for the emails Nicola sends out to those who sign up to receive them. Here are just the links from one such email:-

      This one :-

      This one:

      and this email also gives the link to the pledge that all independence supporters should sign.

      However, from your comment I assume this seems NOT to be your agenda as that seems aimed at criticism of the SNP.

    147. JLT says:


      That video above is a key example. You can see it in the faces of the Unionist politicians. There is a look of contempt on all faces. I believe that contempt can be used to our advantage by just giving them a little nudge. That might be all it takes…

      When I mention the above video (I have taken this from an earlier posting on Facebook, so apologies – I’m not attacking Alex LOL), I’m talking about the one where Stephen Gethins yesterday morning sat with other Unionist politicians in a BBC studio awaiting the Supreme Courts result. You could see it in the faces of the Labour and Tory MP faces – just sheer contempt the minute that Stephen opened his mouth.

      Basically …enough is enough.

    148. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Its quite clear to me that the brit state are trying to destabilize/damage the EU and with Trump in power in the USA they have fellow wrecker in arms. Dangerous lot….

    149. @Meg merrilees

      don`t think Scottish Questions is every week proceeding PMQ`s

      think it is every 5 weeks,with Wales and NI having their questions in-between,don`t know about other weeks,

      think it was Wales turn today.

      Glad someone else thought the Neil Oliver neolithic Orkney show was a farce of British propaganda and misinformation,the man is no historian and is detested by the more academic fact driven historians.

    150. Robert Peffers @ 25 January, 2017 at 4:36 pm:

      OK, Robert, against my better judgment but enlighten me as to what my real agenda is. A more committed Yes voter you’ll be unable to find. 🙂 Pardon me for expecting our elected representatives to actually do their job, i.e. standing up for Scotland. Quite simple – just mention the trade that comes the other way when they say stuff like that; mention the assets when they talk about deficits, etc.

      “Everyone with any real knowledge of the politics of unionism knows full well the quoted figures are utter mince.”

      These are not the people we need to convince.

      Sorry if I haven’t worshipped the SNP sufficiently for you. I’ll continue to vote for them though like I’ve done at every election since I was old enough in 83. 🙂

    151. Robert Peffers says:

      @dandy dons 1903 says: 25 January, 2017 at 12:38 pm:

      “See the britstate and assorted stooges are back trying to bully and intimidate Scotland just like they did back in sept 2014 with threats of economic terrorism against an independent Scotland.”

      Nothing new there then, dandy dons 1903.

      They were doing that before there was a union. In fact they did it to force the union. Not only that but just as now there were The Paircel O Rogue, (London Scots), selling Scotland’s people’s birth-right back then too.

    152. HandandShrimp says:

      Neil Oliver is an archaeologist and is best when working with a trowel in his hand. He is no historian.

      I enjoyed the Orkney series not least because having lived there in my childhood I loved the beautiful camera work. The archaeologists at the Ness talked sense and a couple of the others on the show were fun, like the woman that built the sweat lodge.

      My objection to the content was primarily when conjecture in one breath became established fact in the second breath. For example, when the neolithic faded out and the Ness temples closed, Orkney stopped looking south and looked north – based on a sweat lodge that may have been early bronze age (I am sure neolithic saunas have been found as far south as Marden Henge) and we all know Swedes like saunas. I’m sorry but in academic circles such logic deserves a firm whack in the balls with a 2lb mash hammer.

      When we get to the Iron age both Orkney and Shetland are clearly Pictish and the proliferation of Brochs found only in Scotland confirm this. Sweat Lodges may have come to the UK from the Baltic region, amber certainly did but the assumption that there was a sudden refocusing of Bronze Age culture in Orkney from the Mainland a short boat ride away to a treacherous crossing to the Baltic regions seems mad and impractical.

      As to whether a religious cult began in Orkney and spread throughout mainland Britain…possibly. Religious cults start in funny places.

    153. Meg merrilees says:

      Scot Finlayson@ 4.46

      Thanks for the information.
      I was beginning to wonder as every time I looked at the parliament site today it was showing Welsh Questions. Plus i wondered why Stewart Hosie would be live on TV and not in ‘the House’?


    154. Robert Peffers says:

      @David Wardrope says: 25 January, 2017 at 2:08 pm:

      ” … for advice on where to stream music online, and I F*****G LOVE Metallica.”

      “Metallica”? Who she?

    155. yesindyref2 says:

      Ah, I see Nana not surprisngly found it already, here’s the main page for the others:

    156. Robert Peffers says:

      @Clydebuilt says: 25 January, 2017 at 2:15 pm:

      “You have to ask is it Jay Kay’s fingers doing the tweeting at that early hour of the day.”

      No me. Ah dinna hae tae speir onythin frae yon maukit auld carlin.

      Owersettin intil the Inglis :-

      “Not me. I do not have to question anything from that maggoty old woman”.

      Perhaps the poor woman has something on her conscience that prevents sleep.

    157. Juan P says:

      Rowling is demented and an extreme British nationalist.

      People wonder why a millionaire would waste their time on twitter arguing about Scottish politics. The answer is hate.

      She hates the idea of an independent Scotland and hates the idea that Scots can govern themselves. No matter how much money she earns that hatred has festered in her for too long to be satiated by pennies in the bank.

      It’s tragic really and hopefully some potter fans are starting to recognise that she’s either racist, mentally unstable or both.

    158. Bob MACK says:


      Just heard that Shell are to sell all their N. SEA interests to an American joint bid with the largest Canadian pension funder. Apparently Shell are raising capital for another takeover costing £54 billion.

      Worthless stuff that oil.

    159. Gary45% says:

      So the “Poor man’s Tolkien” is a liar.
      No surprise there, maybe this is her thinking she’s writing something “original”?

    160. liz says:

      Andrew -sorry but 38 degrees have zero authority to hold anyone to account.

      What happened to their 100.000 sigs about BBC bias.

      When have 38 degrees ever achieved anything with their petitions?
      It is a private company collecting email addresses

    161. HandandShrimp says:

      I think we need to calm down to a convulsion on Rowling. The BBC kicked this off with one of their post factual Tweets and she and others re-tweeted it. Yes she is a Labour supporting Unionist and is a close friend of the Browns but she isn’t motivated by hate or an overwhelming desire to sing Rule Britannia. She has her political tribe and friendships and she backs them. That isn’t likely to change unless people like Brown start to soften on the Union. So, certainly challenge the accuracy of tweets and never concede on points like that. A bit of gentle mocking does no harm but we have no need to be abusive. Leave that to the Spanners.

      If things become so unbelievably awful under the increasingly weird Trump administration and May hitches her wagon to that administration as the only post-Brexit deal she can get then we may see a shift in even those allegiances.

    162. Robert Louis says:

      If Westminster chooses to ignore the Scottish Government regarding article 50, and abandoning the constitutional norm expressed as ‘the sewell convention’ (which has never previously been sidestepped with much lesser issues), should the Scottish Government not then choose to ignore Westminster’s ‘constitutional norms’.

      Sewell may not be LEGALLY obligatory, but then many of the UK constitutional norms are also not legally obligatory, but they are adhered to. If Westminster chooses to ignore Scotland on such a serious issue, then surely the supposed ‘constitutional norms’ are thereafter dead.

      If Westminster ignores Scotland, should Scotland not just choose to ignore Westminster? Perhaps the time is coming when ‘playing by London’s rules’ is no longer in Scotland’s interests.

      The Scottish Government was elected to stand up for Scotland, and do whatever is required to prevent Scotland being taken out of the EU against its wishes (for that it has a specific mandate). If London chooses to go ahead and drag Scotland out, is it not obligatory upon the Scottish Government to do WHATEVER is necessary to prevent it?

      How can we have one side (Scotland) playing by the rules, and Westminster not playing by the rules? Westminster since the brexit vote has been treating ALL the UK constitutional norms rather like some kind of smorgasbord, picking and choosing those parts of the constitution to suit itself. Surely that in itself, due to the serious and damaging nature of brexit, throws ALL constitutional norms and niceties out the window.

      This is no trivial matter. Brexit is a major change to the status of Scotland and its people, and it is something the people have very clearly said they do not want.

      We either adhere to our democratic norms or we do not. Their is no half way house.

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      Mmm, just been reading the comments of the others of that judicial power project and what’s interesting is that they’e all right in their way which is, of course, wrong in a supposedly advanced and mature Constitution. But one comment from Finnis leaps out for me:

      One of the least desirable features of modern adjudication (as I argued in my Judicial Power lecture in October 2015) is allowing the Court’s reasoning to be controlled by the concessions, oversights and failings of counsel, instead of by the law that even slight effort would show is controlling.

      I totally agree with that. The judgement should reflect the Law, rather than the competence or otherwise of the advocate. It’s not Rumpole of the Bailey after all.

      Just to make a comment, I think the ruling was wrong, not just on Sewel, but on the appeal itself. The UK Government should have won their appeal. I think Treaties – and Conventions – should have more force. Apart from anything else, they’re the international world’s glue. Devalue them and you have worldwide chaos.

    164. Alba46 says:

      Re the £50Bn trade that the english supposedly do with Scotland, why doesn’t one of our westminster MP’s ask for detailed breakdown?

      If they are confident of their figures I am sure that the english government will only be too happy to oblige.

    165. yesindyref2 says:

      The logical conclusion to my last post as far as Scotland is concerned, is that these issues need to be ironed out before Independence, and the absolute basic for any country is a written constitution defining the citizen’s rights, and the boundaries between legislative, executive – and judiciary.

      And that the supreme – seldom used court – should be the Constitutional court, to interpret and enforce the Constituion, making recommendations if it needs to be modified..

    166. Croompenstein says:


      When will we see some real anger from our MP’s in there

      That wee nyaff Bercow would shoot them doon Les like this…

    167. Dan Huil says:

      @Alba46 6:15pm

      But they could give us any old figures, Alba46. Or they could instruct their “civil servants” to give us any old crap. They very likely do already.

    168. bugsbunny says:


      i’ve had the great pleasure of being a J.R.R. Tolkien Fan since I was 10. 18 years ago I was in W.H. Smiths in Ayr and they were giving away her first novel if you bought any books to the value of £30, (which I was doing anyway), and also if you signed a “pledge” lol, to buy her 3rd Novel. So I got The Philosophers Stone for a £1.00. This was before even devolution. It was shite. I used it to line the budgies cage. Which was apt. Shite on Shite.

      I’m having haggis neeps and tatties for my dinner right now. Or as we called turnips in Ayrshire “Tumshies”.

      Someone wrote online that Andrew Marr and J. K. Rowling were both head hunted by MI5 and went and had training out in Israel. However they were both crap. Probably and Urban Myth? I’d like that to be true though. A couple of weird looking spooks they both look. His ears and her neck permently bent with that claiket look on her coupon.

    169. Nana says:


      Scottish government set to table motion calling for article 50 rejection

    170. Robert Peffers says:

      @robertknight says: 25 January, 2017 at 2:35 pm:

      “Someone should point out Indy Scotland wouldn’t be trading with rUK, but the trade would be between rUK and the EU,”

      No, Robert it would not. The United Kingdom is the, “Treaty of Union”, and it only has two kingdoms as its partners.

      There is not a single mention of, “country”, or, “countries”, in the entire document.

      Neither is there mention of either Wales or Ireland. There thus cannot be an rUK of any kind. When the two signatory kingdoms part company there will only be the two original kingdoms left who will resume their original titles.

      BTW: The claimed, “Treaty of Union”, of 1800/1 cannot be a treaty of union of any shape or form and indeed its official title does not contain either word.

      The reason it cannot be a Treaty of Union is that it was an internal Act of the UK parliament and you cannot make treaties to unite with yourself. It was an agreement between the two Irish Civil War factions and both were then still parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and the Act was thus an act of the United Kingdom Parliament.

      At the beginning of the 16th century, there was only two major states in Britain. The Kingdom of England,(that included Wales and also controlled Ireland),. The other being the Kingdom of Scotland. The once independent Principality of Wales had fallen under the control of English monarchs from the Statute of Rhuddlan in 1284.
      The Union of Crowns in 1603, was a unintended consequence of a royal marriage one hundred years earlier. That chancd inter-kingdom marriage united the kingdoms in only a personal union of the shared monarch. Thus full political union to form, “The Kingdom of Great Britain”., required a, “Treaty of Union”, in 1706 and individual Acts of Union in 1707 in order to ratify the Treaty.

      Those 1800/1 acts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain only acknowledged that Northern Ireland had opted to remain with the Union after Ireland was partitioned.

      However, the actual agreement was between the two partitioned parts of Ireland that were both already parts of the former Kingdom of England and indeed, in 1800/1 both were legally still parts of the Kingdom of England.

      The South as a dominion of the British Commonwealth and the North as a Province of England. The Republic of Ireland Act 1948, only came into force on 18 April 1949. Leaving behind Northern Ireland which was already in the United Kingdom. So still only two kingdoms in the union.

    171. Nana says:

      Go on yourself Mike Russell

      SNP minister Michael Russell accuses UK government of ‘lying’ in Brexit negotiations

    172. frogesque says:

      @Robert Peffers 6.40

      As one who is sometimes guilty of using rUK instead of Kingdom of England ( which confuses most English ), is there any other polite and accurate term to describe the rotten stump that would be left after the golden crown (Scotland) departs?

    173. Meg merrilees says:


      While we worry about Brexit and the self-inflicted damage a stupid Tory government is waging on Europe this is the real world!

      It’s time T May got on with the day job. Will she speak frankly about this with Trumpton?

      From RT today:

    174. William Purves says:

      £50 billion trade with England? How mutch is going down and how mutch is coming up.

    175. Gary45% says:

      There was me thinking one of her “classics”? was titled
      Harry Pothead the Stoned Philosopher.(went along the lines of a wanting teenager who would get off his tits and think he was invisible whilst orating
      “The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers” or something like that).
      Not heard about them going to Palestine’s “stolen land”, if so it would be Mossad not MI5 who would be involved, the “land thieves” are in every city/town in the UK.

    176. yesindyref2 says:

      I use rUK, it’s easy shorthand and everyone knows what you mean. Some use EWNI, but I think that’s clumsy.

      On the other hand if the Unionists are getting too comfortable on a thread, posting stuff like “We should have a vote in England to turf Scoland out of the UK”, I post this:

      as Michael Forsyth (Conservative ex SOS Scotland) stated in the House of Lords:
      “if Scotland leaves the UK, the UK ceases to exist”.

      Gets a lot of downvotes 🙂

    177. David Mills says:

      Well to be honest if any political party in Scotland is going to be expert in “alternative facts” it’s SLAB.

    178. Dan Huil says:

      @William Purves 7:06pm

      There’s a joke there, somewhere, about the Linen Bank but I’m too lazy to find it.

      Otherwise, we’ll probably never know the true trade figures, William, until we regain independence. As I said before there is no way Westminster will tell us the exact amounts.

    179. Proud Cybernat says:

      Would business folks in Scotland rather be in a free market that is 10 times the potential of the English market–or would they prefer to say bye-bye to that massive potential?

      HM Treasury and Dept of Trade & Industry fudge these figures so that all exports to the EU and beyond that happen to pass through English ports are counted as Scottish exports to England, thereby falsely inflating the importance of the English market to Scotland.

      Oh, and trade cuts both ways. How much would English businesses lose if England took the huff and upped trade tariffs?

      Oh, and T.May did say they want a trade deal with the EU (of which indy Scotland would be a part).

      They really must think we’re daft up here or something.

    180. North chiel says:

      As regards Mike Russell’s speech highlighting that the Brexit judgement had
      shown ” a clear political reason why Holyrood’s legislative consent should be engaged, as it
      noted how Brexit would change devolved competencies”.
      Responding to Mr Russell’s comments a U.K. government spokesman said
      ” the devolution settlement is clear that foreign affairs are reserved to the UK parliament”.
      My question is in what way does certain aspects of our EU membership be construed
      as being foreign affairs? . Membership of the single market and customs union surely relates to economics and trade and consequently impinges on employment matters and business development etc. Also originally we joined the ” European economic community” . These aspects of our membership in no way can be exclusively construed as “foreign affairs” reserved exclusively to Westminster.
      Footnote: I note the glee on the “union Jackie ” show this evening the ” £50 billion exports from Scotland to RUK was ” trumpeted” compared to the exports to Europe.
      Someone needs to get on this case pronto as it will be ” trumpeted” throughout the Indyref 2 campaign by the propaganda channel incessantly. Anyway , I am quite sure that Angela Merkel would ” take up any slack” in our exports to RUK that TM ” turned her nose up to” ( probably mostly prime quality food & drink anyway and electricity inputed from Scotland to the grid to keep the lights on in RUK )

    181. Fred says:

      Neil Oliver’s Orkney jaunt managed to dig up an aged island native to find out why there was an exodus from his wee island, the guy hardly got a look-in while Oliver searched the auld hoose for a mirror ate sort his herr! The deserted island remained a mystery to the agog viewers. The solution to this enigma however could be easily explained by scanning the parish war memorial. There was a stampede from the Highlands & Islands by the survivors of the Great War & their families. See Mrs Trump!!!

    182. frogesque says:

      @yesindyref2 7.12

      I must admit that EWNI is clumsy though technically accurate.

      Do like the Michael Forsyth quote though lol.

      Will prob continue using rUK unless trying to explain that there are only two parties to the Act of Union.

      What really does wind them up is the fact that without financial passporting and Scottish oil reserves the wonderful FIAT pound would be worthless. A guid pound Scots however . . .

    183. Pete says:

      Since 2012 scotlands exports to ruk have increased by 10%+
      Exports to Europe have been unchanged.
      I think Hosie and Cherry now agree.
      I wish our representatives would get their facts correct first time.
      Neil makes them look amateurish.

    184. Dougal says:

      During a Harry Potter special, a top 50 moment of the film series, JK Rowling kept saying that the HP had to be British, British and British.

      JK was very adamant about that aspect of the HP film series and deep down at heart, she’s a BritNat probably.

      I don’t think she will ever change her position as suggested after the EU referendum result, she’s not going to be affected by Brexit is she?

      She could be accused of lying to the people by claiming that Scotland would be a stronger position if we voted No.

      I’d respect her if she campaigned against the Tories’ brutal welfare reform but no.

    185. Dan Huil says:

      I think we can confidently expect that figure of £50 billions will be transformed to something like £500 billions by the time of IndyRef2.

    186. Alba46 says:

      Dan Huil @6.41

      Agreed, of course they could but by putting a blanket figure on it they are not required to back it up.
      A detailed breakdown of there trade with Scotland by individual items is much easier to check and disprove.

      Lets say that send to Scotland £500K’s of lets say carpets it would be fairly easy to check where they came from and where in Scotland they went to.

      lets chip away at them and see what comes out

    187. Dan Huil says:

      From now on any figures on the economy offered by Westminster must be treated as extremely suspect. Westminster lies.

    188. Iain More says:

      Perhaps a certain new film script should have read we are ruled by friggers? C’mon Irvine rap some knuckles.

    189. Proud Cybernat says:

      How much would a Scots £ backed with £trillions of North Sea Oil asset be worth compared to the rUK £ backed with hee-haw?

      It’s no’ rocket science.

    190. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Robert Peffers.

      RE: Metallica.

      Here’s an appropriate track from the album “Ride The Lightning” to give you an inkling.

    191. Robert Graham says:

      Oh it’s good to see the Arseholes are still at it and playing games in Hollyrood,
      Remember the ones who ran up the Bill for the Parliament building , the Edinburgh Trams, amongst all the other balls ups, not forgetting the Icing on the cake, the one that knocks all the others into Insignificance yep top of the bill goes to PFI , aren’t they f/in Clever, have they learned anything ? , Nope not a f/in thing , still as thick as pigs shit , still playing fast and loose with money we don’t have, has it escaped them the Tory Government has cut the bloody budget, yep that budget they were screaming for the SNP to accept with even deeper cuts.
      If I was a bit younger I would be off, it would be f/ck this let them drown in their own Pish .

    192. scottieDog says:

      Certainly a wealth of info on Web about uk exports. Just need to sift through it all.
      Have to take into account imports too.

      Oil export via import looks much less rosy for the uk as a whole..

    193. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links for April 2013 now over on O/T.

    194. Croompenstein says:

      @Pete –

      Since 2012 scotlands exports to ruk have increased by 10%+
      Exports to Europe have been unchanged

      Thanks Pete could you provide us with a link to the info so we can see what all the exports are etc..


    195. schrodingers cat says:

      the best address to a macaroni pie ever, courtesy of william duguid

      To a Macaroni Pie

      Fair fa’ your sharp, acidic tang
      Great Chieftain o’ the Scotch Pie gang!
      Ye staun aboon the whole shebang
      Steak, Mince or Mutton
      Sworn foe of every hunger pang
      And strainin’ button!

      Behind the Co-Op checkout’s shield
      Ye stand in majesty revealed
      Proud pasta tubes in pastry sealed
      Wi’ milky sheen
      And topped wi’ grated cheese congealed
      Like plasticine.

      His lunch see rustic Labour crave
      And bung ye in the microwave
      Until your stodgy guts behave
      Like lava streams
      And scalded diners rant and rave
      Wi’ anguished screams.

      What setting suits your charms the best?
      A banquet for an honoured guest?
      Or watching Strictly in a vest?
      Each maun be prized.
      The eve of a blood glucose test?
      That’s no’ advised.

      Is there that owre his wilted greens
      Or trumpety Aduki beans
      Or juices packed wi’ carotenes
      An’ mingin’ flavour
      Regards this dish for kings an’ queens
      Wi’ stern disfavour?

      Poor devil! See him at the gym
      Astride a treadmill to keep trim
      Sae puritanical and prim
      That joy’s forbidden!
      The wind could sweep him on a whim
      Intae a midden.

      But mark the pasta-nurtured chiel!
      Life holds for him a rich appeal
      The cauld blast canna mak him kneel
      Or idly drift
      He’s blubbered like an Arctic seal
      And hard to shift.

      Ye Powers wha strive for mankind’s good
      And keep them healthy, fit and rude
      Auld Scotland wants nae rabbit food
      That maks her bony
      But one thing stirs her gratitude:
      Baked Macaroni!

      happy burn’s nicht

    196. gus1940 says:

      RE the sub collision the purpose of the Sea Kings which used to be based at Prestwick was to stop incursions by Russian subs and any attempts to tail our and the US subs based on The Clyde.

      Now that the Sea Kings are long gone,the Nimrods scrapped and apparently no RN surface vessels based anywhere near Scotland it makes one wonder what is there to stop a Russian sub sailing right up the Clyde and through The Rhu Narrows to Faslane or up Loch Long to Coulport.

    197. Glamaig says:

      Misreporting Scotland lead story – Scotland exports more to England than to EU. So what are they saying? Will’global Britain’ will trade with anywhere on the globe, apart from Scotland?

      Followed by – ‘BRITISH’ exports of whisky are doing great. FFS!

      They’ve started campaigning already.

    198. Les Wilson says:

      Croompenstein says

      Yes I know about that,and quite disgusting from that wee creep, given how our team is treated. But they should go on regardless of him. Keep disrupting things as much as they can.

    199. yesindyref2 says:

      The thing about any of these export figures is that they are always estimates, guesses even, survey data i.e, sampling, which many businesses don’t even bother filling out.

      I couldn’t give a breakdown of where my sales go, I agree it would be nice to know so I could maybe target more, and I do do that a little but that’s a bit seat of the pants for small businesses. Yes, I could take some time to tabulate it, but I don’t need to generally. Potentially I would if I was ever (cross fingers) tax inspected. So I do keep full records, and I hope the taxman has a few weeks to spare. Good luck with that.

      So mulitply my small business by the thousands, tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands who sell goods and services to whoever wants to buy them, specially in these days of the internet, and bang goes any accuracy. And since I do trade as well as direct, I have absolutely no idea where their sales go. Many of them have websites these days. That’s retail sales, b2b in the EU is different, as if they have a VAT number you don’t charge VAT. Well, not often, sometimes it’s not worth the bother.

      Same principle likely goes for some, many, medium size businesses, and considering wholesalers, agents, resellers, basically speaking accuracy gets less and less.

      So it comes down to estimates. Anyone who pretends otherwise from either side is telling porkies. In my opinion HMRC figures are likely to be more accurate. Nobody sensible messes with the taxman. But there’s no need for detail there in a lot of cases. Just take the money, post or courier it, bye bye thanks very much. Kerchingg.

    200. geeo says:

      Ot completely, but brexit related.

      Watching liverpool v southampton in the league cup semi, and i got thinking about something..

      What effect will brexit have on football in the uk ?

      Currently, players from the EU are free to move here to play (work) regardless if great good or pish.

      However, players from Rest of the world are (still?) subject to work visa restrictions, namely that a player must be an international or has played x % of recent internationals .

      Surely if free movement of labour is scrapped as per tory hard brexit, an awful lot of current EU footballers are going to require a visa under the current ‘rest of world’ rules ?

      Surely if a EU footballer is allowed free movement of labour, so should a joiner, labourer etc ?

    201. Not Convinced says:

      Robert Peffers said on 25 January, 2017 at 6:40 pm
      There thus cannot be an rUK of any kind.

      Sure there can, it just depends upon what you take the ‘r’ to mean! If for instance you take rUK to mean “rump UK” (which to be honest, is what I though it did mean for ages) then it would still be applicable!

      Not to mention that since they seem determined to make an arse of themselves, it would even seem most appropriate?

    202. Can we step back and stop arguing about the export figures. This is what they want us to do.

      The whole stressed discussion is based on an entirely false premise. Everybody is accepting the false premise to start with and arguing about a load of mince.

      It is implied that if Scotland becomes independent Scotland and England will stop trading with each other. That we won’t get cornflakes and Maltesers and cutlery from Sheffield and they won’t get whisky and Irn Bru and Scotch beef.

      This of course total bullshit but if you accept this false premise you can swallow anything.

      Funny how England leaving the EU market doesn’t attract the same sort of hysteria. England will of course continue trading with the EU and we will continue trading with England,just as Ireland does and Japan and Nigeria and Cuba etc etc etc

      I am disappointed in our poor response to this nonsense.

    203. Robert Louis says:

      Dave McEwan Hill at 847pm.

      Very well said. It is utter tosh to suggest that somehow if independent, England would overnight cease trading with Scotland.

    204. heraldnomore says:

      EWNI might be clumsy but it sounds good. Yooni seems so apt.

    205. Golfnut says:

      All this export/ import figures stuff is nothing more than deflection, would England refuse the oil piped directly from the St Fergus Field to the 8 refineries in England and Wales, would they refuse our surplus electricity, would they refuse gas, would they refuse food. Would they let the lights go out? Seriously.
      Even when Scotland’s currency hardens, and they get less for their pound, they will still buy what they need here, don’t let them kid you, its England that is looking price increases and pension problems, we are probably going to have to lend them money as well.

    206. Macbeda says:

      EWNI is too clumsy and rUK is not true.

      Can I suggest that you just use rK as the remaining Kingdom because that is indeed what it is.

    207. Contrary says:

      I am glad an expert was brought in to verify 62 is greater than 55, so many numbers are bandied about these days without verification, though I am still trying to figure out how the difference between 51.8 and 48.2 is a clear and significant majority while the difference between 62 and 38 is a barely scraped-by majority. Yes yes, less people involved in the second set of percentages – but then you would have to argue that the 38% was even less relevant, which isn’t the way it is argued. Will keep seeking an appropriate formula that makes sense of this.

      Found this on the tartancon’s Twitter feed, this is my first try at a link so hope it works

      (And hope it links to creation of Scotland piece, but it isn’t that interesting if not).

      I am glad the SNP are manoeuvring carefully towards a second independence referendum, they are gathering friends, and if it is all done very democratically, we should have enough friends; hopefully big burly friend with lots of nice big shiny ships and large boots, so when it comes to dealing with negotiations with a particularly bitter and twisted master Scotland won’t be asset stripped/ invaded/ destroyed/ or whatever that bitter master decides is appropriate to assuage its ego. I have observed that the Westmunster/ English government does not seem to be particularly competent or rational in its negotiations. And I believe, though correct me if I am wrong, historically, it never has been.

    208. One_Scot says:

      ‘Can we step back and stop arguing about the export figures’

      Good call.

    209. CameronB Brodie says:

      Apparently some struggle with the concepts of individual liberty and political freedom, as well as honesty.

      Personal Liberty and Political Freedom
      Four Interpretations

      ABSTRACT: By freedom, classical liberals meant non-interference, independence from the state, the personal and proprietary liberty of the governed. It is negative freedom as the antithesis both to absolutism and anarchy.In the republican interpretations, the freedom of a free political community is made possible and guaranteed by the institutionalization of the liberty of the political community. Political liberty is the medium, stage and precondition for the freedom of its members. That, in turn, is conditional upon the readiness of its members to protect the liberty of their community and themselves, i.e. upon the virtue of the free citizen. In this article I engage with four different interpretations of both kinds of liberty concepts in different discourses of the 20th-century UK and US and 20th–21st-century Hungary

    210. heedtracker says:

      One_Scot says:
      25 January, 2017 at 9:23 pm
      ‘Can we step back and stop arguing about the export figures’

      Good call

      How come yoon culture has the exact sum all over the shop now of what Scotland trades to England but there is no figure anywhere of what England trades back?

      Just watched Ligger Neil’s show and he was furious at Hosie. So how come the Ligger doesn’t have the checked reciprocal, need I ask?

    211. stewartb says:

      On trade, in the transcript of oral evidence given to the House of Commons ‘Exiting the European Union’ Committee during its session in Aberdeen on 19 December 2016, Aberdeen, a notable Brexiteer (and unionist, I think) called Bertie Armstrong, CEO of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, is recorded as offering the following advice on the future of fish exports from Scotland and the UK. There are aspects of what he says that may have wider significance, though perhaps not in the way he intended:

      “On the matter of tariffs for fish, the WTO average is 5% to 10%. Since the day after the (EU) referendum, currency has fluctuated just shy of 20%, and always does anyway in reaction to circumstance. The point we would make is let us not be frightened to death by tariffs at all. They may be consumed in the noise of currency fluctuations but some small tariffs would not necessarily be a disaster, particularly as the other side of that coin is that you may access new markets, for instance India, that are currently shut for you because of the present circumstance.”


      “We are not going to be in the (EU) single market. We do not need the single market; we need an adequate market in order to press our products abroad. I am clinging to this thought: if you have a desirable product in some volume, you will find a market for that. That is the way the world works.”

    212. DerekM says:

      Totally agree its a red herring there is no Scottish economy there is a UK run Scottish economy which imports and exports are integrated into the UK economy and then westminster decides how much pocket money we are allowed for services.

      The entire UK run Scottish economy is designed for one thing and that is to make us think we can not be independent its colonialism,time to break the chains Scotland.

    213. Chick McGregor says:

      Nice to see one of the greatest female authors (the one with ‘K’ as middle name initial) get a mention on this thread.

      I refer of course to Ursula Kroeber Le Guin.

      The ‘K’ in J K Rowling’s name, as with seemingly almost everything associated with her, is fictitious.

      She and her publisher decided having that middle initial sounded better.

      Here is a section from an awards acceptance speech by one of them, see if you can guess which?

      ” Hard times are coming, when we’ll be wanting the voices of writers who can see alternatives to how we live now, can see through our fear-stricken society and its obsessive technologies to other ways of being, and even imagine real grounds for hope. We’ll need writers who can remember freedom – poets, visionaries – realists of a larger reality.

      Right now, we need writers who know the difference between production of a market commodity and the practice of an art. Developing written material to suit sales strategies in order to maximise corporate profit and advertising revenue is not the same thing as responsible book publishing or authorship.

      Yet I see sales departments given control over editorial. I see my own publishers, in a silly panic of ignorance and greed, charging public libraries for an e-book six or seven times more than they charge customers. We just saw a profiteer try to punish a publisher for disobedience, and writers threatened by corporate fatwa. And I see a lot of us, the producers, who write the books and make the books, accepting this – letting commodity profiteers sell us like deodorant, and tell us what to publish, what to write.

      Books aren’t just commodities; the profit motive is often in conflict with the aims of art. We live in capitalism, its power seems inescapable – but then, so did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art. Very often in our art, the art of words. “

    214. CameronB Brodie says:

      Neo-liberalism seeks to replace “positive” ideas of liberty, which are shaped by human experience and values, with an orthodoxy of “negative” liberty, shaped by market forces and the profit imperative. This sacrifices human self-realization and is incapable of supporting an “open society”.

      P.S. I’m generally an anti-positivist, so make of that what you will. 🙂

    215. Robert Peffers says:

      @Phil Robertson says: 25 January, 2017 at 4:35 pm:

      “As far as the recent PISA findings are concerned, your final sentence is incorrect.”

      Aye! Richt!

      Do you actually understand the statistics from that report, Phil?

      Tell you what – how about you explain how and where this recent PISA Report actually claims that the Scottish Education system is worse, overall, than that of any of the other Westminster, de facto parliament of England, countries?

      Now I may be wrong but do not the PISA figures measure only 15 year olds performance? So just how can you, or anyone else. draw conclusions regarding Scotland’s 15 year olds when the current CFE system is less than 15 years in operation and thus these 15 Year olds cannot be representative of the present state of Scottish Education?

      They are only a spot check of 15 year olds and nothing else.

      ” … More generally, the kneejerk response that things are worse elsewhere is of little comfort to those waiting for operations in Grampian or stuck in a corridor in A&E at the QEU hospital”

      Now, Phil, please indicate where I actually made a Knee Jerk response? I stated a statistical fact. I made no references to the comparable comfort or distress of people waiting while requiring medical or surgical treatment whatsoever.

      Factually it is totally impossible that everyone, unless there is only one, arriving at A&E will instantly be treated. There are several reasons but the main one is that triage is a necessity before any treatment can be started. I assume you know what that entails.

      Which means that the knee jerk reaction you spoke of describes exactly that response you made.

      The point being debated had nothing to do with how distressed or uncomfortable waiting patients might or might not be.

      The point being argued was whether your claims against the Scottish NHS were, or were not, justified.

      The facts, and the figures, show that the Scottish A&E waiting times are quite some way better than any other Westminster parliament country NHS service.

      Neither you or I have the slightest way to assess if, on average, the waiting patients are more, or less, distressed in any of the NHS services for the simple fact that their particular problems are so very diverse.

    216. Famous15 says:


      Burns in the USA on BBC2. Good programme.

      Neil Oliver that is how a programme on Scotland should be. Not your snivelling self hating Scottish cringe. Oliver how can you narrate an hour long programme on Scottish archaeology and not mention Scotland once?

    217. Fred says:

      Jackie Burd says SNP baaaaaaaad tonight. The talking horse has spoken!

    218. galamcennalath says:

      There no getting away from the fact that by Sept 2014 the choice was no long just UK by NO, and iScotland by YES, although for many that would have been the simple decision. For many other people the choice was between UK in the EU by NO, and iScotland outside the EU by YES.

      It would be hard to unpick what percentage of NOs were hard NO-whatever, what percentage were NO through miscellaneous fears, and what percentage were specifically NO-to-stay-in-the-EU.

      When IndyRef2 comes it will be explicitly NO = UK, YES = Indy+EU.

      The Unionist may try to claim otherwise. The EU (I am certain) will make clear Scotland is welcome, straight in, no hurdles.

      So what campaigning is going to be about is …

      Firstly persuading YES+Leave that the EU comes with Indy and is preferable to Brexit. What represents the biggest danger to Scotland? By then we can show it will be Brexit.

      Secondly persuading NO+Remain that not only does EU membership matter, but that Indy has become the safe option.

      Defeat will come if people get hung up on other possibilities i.e. Much power through federalism with the UK, or Indy without EU membership. These scenarios need to be removed as viable.

    219. Rock says:

      “We marvel, as always, that someone as obscenely wealthy as JK Rowling can find nothing better to do with her day than obsessively spread lies about Scottish politics to millions of people at 7.34am. But it’s a bit rich that she should do so in the guise of protecting the truth.”

      Scotland will never become independent as long as the likes of Rowling can vote in an independence referendum.

      Unless the next referendum restricts the vote to, FOR EXAMPLE, residents who have at least one grandparent born in Scotland, we are not going to be independent any time soon.

      After independence, all residents must be treated as equal citizens, whatever their origin.

      The UK, rightly in my view, prevented EU citizens living here from voting in the EU referendum.

      If England ever votes for independence from Scotland, I am sure Scots living in England will not have the right to vote.

    220. CameronB Brodie says:

      Escape from Freedom, sometimes known as The Fear of Freedom outside North America,[1] is a book by the Frankfurt-born psychoanalyst Erich Fromm, first published in the United States by Farrar & Rinehart in 1941.[2] In the book, Fromm explores humanity’s shifting relationship with freedom, with particular regard to the personal consequences of its absence. His special emphasis is the psychosocial conditions that facilitated the rise of Nazism.

    221. Lenny Hartley says:

      Galamcennalath , the way Nicola is speaking and going by visits to Norway , the preferred option is now EFTA , this is best of both worlds as the Pro EU folk and the yes leave folk will probably have no issue. Full EU membership can be decided by referendum several years after Indy.

    222. Alan Gerrish says:

      Mundell might claim it is the Scottish Government’s own figures
      that are used to quantify Scottish exports, so I had a look at the Scottish Government’spublication “Export Statistics, 2014” – released 26/01/17 just in case he might have got it wrong (!)

      Didn’t get any further than page 2 though after seeing the origin of the data used to compile the report:

      “The estimates in this publication are based on the completed survey returns from 1,664 businesses in Scotland to the 2014 Global Connections Survey. Further estimates for businesses based in Scotland for export value and turnover are
      sourced from UK wide official sources and administrative sources.”

      So there we have it, a self-selecting group of businesses report back to their Imperial Masters with the information added to by further estimates sourced from the Imperial Masters. Sounds like a very robust method for achieving complete accuracy.

      This crap really needs to be called out for what it is. Scotland will have folk who could do a decent job on teasing out the real stats, and particularly after the SC judgement the Scottish Government should have no qualms about saying that since it has been demonstrated in court we have been lied to since Devolution began (yes, I know it’s really the last 300 years), they cannot believe any data now emanating from the National Statistics Office etc., and will henceforth produce their own.

      I remember in the lead-in to Indyref1, John Jappy came out with some great info on manipulation of economic data in the past, and Jim and Margaret Cuthbert have produced a wealth of reports and critiques on the Scottish economy which should get more of an airing. What is absolutely certain is that this continuing dribble of economic pish from the yoons has to be aggressively confronted, or else we deserve to be forever on the back foot.

    223. Artyhetty says:


      Absolutely. Seeing this sneaking into blogs. ‘I have a no voting friend who has a business and says they are just too worried about trade, they send 80% of their goods to england, And, I get 90% of my supplies from England’. Recently even this, ‘Corporations could and will likely leave Scotland, what would happen to the zillions of Scots unemployed’.

      Utter tosh coming out, it is how the unionists operate, plant fear large, job done! Even though it might seem a legit argument, it stinks of propaganda, planting fear. It is like the irrational fear of the EU, with their worker and human rights, and food standards, god forbid!

      The ScotGov and people like Alex Salmond have the measure of things. The unionists and their media might have intelligence on their side, but it’s the type that has no brains, and takes orders.

      You can’t fool all of the people, all of the time, or can you.

    224. KOF says:

      @Macbeda 21:14

      Currently the state we inhabit is called The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So, if the union between The Kingdom of Scotland and The Kingdom of England, which created The United Kingdom of Great Britain, is done away with then surely the name of the state without Scotland should be The Kingdom of England and Northern Ireland. (Assuming NI stays in union with the Kingdom of England)

      So that would be KE&NI, or just KENI. 🙂

    225. Artyhetty says:

      On the subject of freedom, and democracy, I watched this other day. First part in a series I think.

      Amazing how twisted things, politically, can become without people having a scooby about it. Mirror mirror on the wall who is the cleverest of them all?

    226. archieologist says:

      Famous15 . Good point.
      Neil Oliver in his programme on the Ness Of Orkney repeatedly pushed the idea that Orkney was the capital of ancient Britain. The maps he flagged up however showed ancient sites in Ireland which he ignored. There are of course many ancient sites and standing stones in Europe which he also ignored.
      Perhaps ancient Orkney was the cultural/ religious capital of part of Western Europe and its influence was European. After all his programme showed that the ancients had the boats to cross the sea and suggested that the Orkney Vole had DNA links with Belgium! So perhaps the ancient Orcadians were among the first Europeans long before the Romans invented little Britain.

    227. Seumas says:

      Lets be honest here. If Alex Salmond proclaimed it was sunny in Leith today, our media would report “Salmond insults Glasgow over poor weather”.

    228. galamcennalath says:

      Lenny Hartley says:

      Galamcennalath , the way Nicola is speaking and going by visits to Norway , the preferred option is now EFTA

      I agree that is the preferred option for either the whole UK, or a special deal for Scotland within the UK. Those are Nicola’s comprise solutions on offer to WM. On the table and in a written plan.

      However, WM are going to shoot down both of those very soon. Nicola has to prove at home and abroad that WM is totally disrespectful of Scotland’s will. And that will was a massive majority to stay fully in the EU.

      When the half way comprises are dead, then the justification of IndyRef2 cannot be Tory bad behaviour, it must be denial of our democratic will and that was full EU membership.

      The SNP is a pro EU party and the majority of Scots want the EU. That will be the path forward when compromises are dead.

      We will need the EU fully behind us and for that we must go for full membership, anything short of that would make us look like Little Britons of a slightly different flavour to those across Europe.

      The softest NOs are those who voted to stay in the EU and those who thought NO was safest. Suggesting Indy outside the EU is just not going to get those onboard in sufficient numbers. We will lose again.

      Since the EU’s foot print and interference is tiny compared to WM’s, surely most YES-Leaves will return to YES again?

      I am certain IR2 needs to be Brexit versus EU if we are to win.

    229. Graeme Kerr says:

      The unintended consequence of Symons politically worded statement has been to highlight the difference in total vote for UK over Europe. He should be canny enough to see that this is how it could play out.

    230. Swiss Perspective says:

      So to sum up the trade statistics:

      1. Scotland trade with England higher than any other zone –> IndyRef2 a suicidal madness and receipt for bankruptcy

      2. UK trade with EU higher than any other zone –> Brexit is an act of benign wisdom that will work for everyone

      As usual, WM’s logic is disarmingly compelling

    231. Meg merrilees says:


      Yes once that seed of fear is planted it can take root. However, to everyone who says ‘Corporations could and will leave Scotland’ the reply must be
      ‘those Corporations would probably Leave the UK post Brexit and may be more likely to stay in a Scotland still in the EU.

      How many zillions of Scots will be unemployed after 2020 when we get a UKIP government?

    232. ian m says:

      50 billion in trade per year

      4.16 Billion per month 4,160,000,000 Divide by 30

      138,666,666 million pounds per day, every day weekends an aw

      No wonder they won’t let us go

      Is the Barnett formula considered an export?

    233. Stu Mac says:


      Wizard of Earthsea was much more than a “boy wizard goes to school” template, that part forming only a small part of the story. Of course the Earthsea trilogy (especially the 3rd one) were far superior to anything Rowling has ever written and LeGuin went on to write some classics of SciFi. Leguin of course never made the money Rowling has.

      She is a reasonable (though unoriginal and limited) writer but unfortunately she seems to believe her own publicity that making a ton of money makes you more talented than folk who make a lot less.

      Not exactly relevant but I’m a fan of Ms LeGuin and your comment might have made others who haven’t read her stuff think she is only a little above the level of JKR.

    234. Tam Jardine says:

      Dave McEwan Hill

      Hi Dave. I see what you are saying but it needs an answer. This is the kind of pish distortion that will be repeated endlessly. It gains traction and becomes a “fact”. Pretending this isn’t a persuasive argument is denying reality. The myth is that we are dependent and that is a myth in Scotland that finds fertile soil to take seed and grow.

      People need easy, straightforward rebuttals and counter arguments and I think that is what I and others are attempting to put together.

      So the Scottish Governments figures say 63% of our exports to rUK? What percentage of rUK exports are to the EU including indy Scotland? That is the pertinent comparison.

      I’m in the tavern and can’t work it out but it looks like over 63% to me. Plus they are a massive net importer. Oil, gas, food, drink, timber, fish etc etc etc.

      The survey is pish anyway. Response rate 30%. It is a survey that half the folk complete in a fag-packet guess.

      It is intensely boring and irrelevant but we need to spike the idea that the trade terms with the EU post indy would be great for the rest of UK but the same trade deal would be disastrous for Scotland.

    235. Swami Backverandah says:

      Rowling and the other dissemblers take great delight in showing how crap they are at arithmetic.

      So they earn their living writing fantasy.

    236. K.A.Mylchreest says:

      @ Stu Mac
      @ Capella

      Since LeGuin has been mentioned this might not be a bad time to (re)read *The Dispossessed*. “There was a wall …” 🙂

    237. Grouse Beater says:

      Some notes on the fragrant JK … for insomniacs:

    238. Marker Post says:

      @ Swiss Perspective

      Ah, but the reason that UK wants out of Europe is because that trade comes at a cost. They have to follow laws that they don’t want, made up by politicians that they didn’t vote for.

      Their logic is inescapable…

    239. Hermodr says:

      Ouch. Turgid Tolkien? My favourite ever author? Just goes to show that a single point can spoil a whole article if the reader allows it.

      I enjoyed the Harry Potter books; my wife is crazy about them and studies children’s lit for a living – I separate this completely from her weird and harmful twitter comments. It doesn’t, in any way, help to criticise Rowling’s books; it can only turn away Soft Nos, who could be swayed by such superficial stuff. I know it’s trivial, but every vote counts.

    240. ian m says:

      When England is independent and Scotland is in the EU
      England will be securing access to the single market of which Scotland will be a part.
      Unless England wants to further harm their economy they will trade with Scotland because we will have the cheapest/closest shipping costs
      Think about this, Wee england TRADING WITH BIG SCOTLAND EU MEMBER

    241. Lenny Hartley says:

      Hermodr Agree re the Harry Pottter books, I enjoyed them, I thought they were great for a long haul flight as I was at least in another world.

    242. heedtracker says:

      I dont want to be in the same universe as someone who makes their YES or NO Scotland level decisions, based on a few kids books and whether or not people are being nice to the author. They’re not even well written.

    243. Hermodr says:

      IndyRef2 should be easy anyway: there’s literally millions o’ fowk in england who want to stay in the EU – just get some of them to move up here before the vote. Cancel out the ‘Och I’ll hae a wee dram the nicht eh? Rabbie Burns an a’?’ no voters.

    244. Lenny Hartley says:

      Galamcennalath I see your logic, however I think we would win with either goal.
      There are nearly 40% leavers in Scotland a lot of these were also Yes voters, I myself am not comfortable with direction of the EU although I would be happy to go for it if that was the only way we could get our Independence back. it looks more than likely that it will be a hard Brexit, Germany, France and Italy amongst others will be looking at getting hold of the Car Assembly plants and France and Germany will be fighting amongst themselves to get the Financial Institutions. I cannot see them give favourable terms to England and its dominions and if we have an EFTA type deal we can have our own trade deal with England. I say that as I have checked the EFTA website and it slows a Global Map and there are some countries where the Individual EFTA States have their own trade deal so there would be no reason why we could not have our own trade deal with England, it would be in both our interests. I could off course be talking nonsense and If I am please advise.

    245. Capella says:

      @ Stu Mac – agreed. I didn’t mean to suggest they were in the same league (Rowling and Le Guin). And to those who enjoy the Harry Potter books, no offence meant. I find her work boring, but that is a matter of taste.

      I watched a “commencement” address JKR gave to graduates of an American college and thought it excellent. It was so disappointing that she then gave the stupid advice to Scotland to act like a battered wife but give the abuser another chance because that is so powerful. Fantasy! She herself knows from personal experience how futile that is.

      There is something odd about a person who tries to persuade a whole nation to act in its own worst interest.

    246. Col says:

      The EFTA option, could Scotland keep it’s trade unhindered with the RUK being part of that club of nations? At this moment in time with these arguments about us doing so much trade with the UK compared to the EU I’m very doubtful of success. Whether they are true or not doesn’t matter, we are losing the argument!

    247. Swami Backverandah says:

      Somewhere out there in the Realm of Delusion, a Yoonatic punter is trying to sell the idea that because at present the value of Scotland’s exports to the UK is significantly higher than that to the EU, that when Scotland achieves Independence, somehow it will lose those exports to rUK.

      Because, obviously, the rUK would have to seek its imports of Scottish produce, eg Scotch whisky, from other sources.

      Oh, wait …

    248. Liz g says:

      Tam Jardine @ 11.39
      I can see what you are saying,we definitely need to have answers for all this biggest trading partner shit.
      But there’s a fine line between that and allowing the narrative to be dictated by those who sit in a studio and regurgitate numbers.

      This time it has to be about who has the right to govern.
      They will I think, Infact I think they already have started to direct the debate to trade and the economy.
      While there is a place for those discussions and your right we do have to have the correct picture.
      Mostly we should be taking the line.
      Trade….There will definitely be trade.
      Economy…. Scotland will absolutely have one.
      Business…The Scottish People encourage it.
      Border….Wee shame that, but we will make the best of it,if it keeps the neighbours happy.

      NOW let’s talk about how we will run this country and the rights a new Constution will provide.
      We should be asking the public to start thinking what they would like in it,not presenting them with a model one.

      To start thinking about the rules they would like for banker’s ect.

      How far should land reform go.

      The whole electoral system.

      Should we vote for our judge’s….Stuff like that!!!

      Get people talking about the stuff that they can change with Indy…All they have to do to make this a nice country to live in is to bring their Government within Slapping distance!

      But MAINLY we should be making it Cristal Clear this is our business,we don’t want any interference.
      MPs, International leaders, celebrates,any of them,if they don’t have a vote we don’t want to know but more than that we will not be debating on their agenda.
      I’m sure that most of them have a day job…And a gentle reminder to go do it should be our go to response.
      This is Scotland’s debate,no offers or threat’s entertained.

    249. Sassenach says:

      I see our pet food salesman was on Scotland Tonight, but not very convincing about trade figures UK/EU.

    250. Swami Backverandah says:

      In the Media world of Misrepresentation by Omission,it’s hard to distinguish “I didn’t mean to suggest otherwise!”,from a freshly minted Alternative Fact.

    251. Tam Jardine at 11.39

      I agree with you. The point I am making is that the whole issue is proceeding on a false premise. The notion that Scotland and England will stop trading with each after Scottish independence is derisory – but none of our spokesmen had pointed out that. Joanna Cherry did a great job however with Andrew Neil.

      We should typify this as fodder for half wits and ask them to stop insulting Scotland’s collective intelligence instead of missing the main point.

    252. Hermodr says:

      Ignore my somewhat disingenuous comment above. For me, independence is its own reward. However-

      I talked to my parents for the first time in years about Scottish autonomy yesterday – I generally avoid it because I don’t like arguing with them, but I felt I had to bring up the topic given the news. To put it bluntly, they didn’t seem to care in the slightest that Scotland didn’t have a voice in the UK. The partnership can be unequal, so what?

      For them, the argument will only be won by economics. They are exactly the type of people who will watch Reporting Scotland, read The Times, and agree that, even though Brexit is a bad idea, Scotland is probably better off staying with its ‘largest trading partner’.

      This tactic must be dealt with, extremely professionally. Always: Brexit is a disaster, EU is the lifeline.

    253. Valerie says:

      I’m also a big fan of Le Guin. Yes, its science fiction settings, but so much more than that. Great fluid writing, characters defined, moral dilemma and provocative. A woman way ahead of her time, IMO.

      Sick of the exports debate too. The important part is we have a healthy economy, with potential, with produce the world wants.

      There is only one response to the sneering liggers – why would Wangland not trade with us? Spite? Immaturity? Cos we Scottish? Its degrading, this shitshow.

      I’ve been blocking sneering yoons since yesterday.

      And another thing, what motivates those living south of the Border to devote so much time to sneering at folk like me on Twitter? I wouldn’t dream of doing it to them over their politics or choices. I might be on a news thread, addressing someone else, and they just jump all over you with SNP abuse.

      Time I took a break, crap ringing in my ears.

    254. Valerie says:


      See the link provided above at 10.34. That website has more than enough on the economy, and debunks a lot of garbage in a professional way.

    255. manandboy says:

      Just a few things to get off my chest. Must be the Flu. Two and a half weeks – not funny.

      It is noticeable that stress levels are on the rise with the start of the familiar Better Together campaign of fear mongering, outright lying and demonising – a repeat of IndyRef2014.

      This type of ‘campaigning’ is set to be repeated in Indy 2 or i2, as it is now sometimes referred to, simply because when voters are afraid, they are much easier to control and influence. And it comes very naturally to the British Establishment. Already, we are being told about how much we will lose in trade with England, just to make us afraid of losing all that export income, and all those jobs.
      Fear is a vote winner like no other. We all know this now.

      In IndyRef2, the Unionists will again use fear as their main weapon. They will again target the elderly and the soft NO’s, and anyone in Scotland who is in any way vulnerable to manipulation by government authority figures, like the many who will no doubt, be threatened with cuts to their Benefits if they vote for Independence,and staying in the EU. We all know this now.

      At the same time, Better Together will almost certainly attempt to discredit the EU, and warning the electorate through massive lies, that the EU will soon collapse leaving Scotland marooned without trade and wallowing in poverty, a lie designed to make people afraid of the future.

      In 2014, 2 million Scots were made afraid of a future without the UK supporting Scotland. This time, in i2, it will be exactly the same. But it will be MUCH harder for BT to get this message across. Let’s take courage and confidence from that!

      But let us all be forewarned – so as to be forearmed.

      The point of all this is that we have to have a rigorous strategy of our own to promote what life in an Independent Scotland as part of the EU will be like. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that just by concentrating on telling the Scottish Electorate how good it will be in Scotland after Independence, and how absolutely horrible it will be under Westminster, might just do the trick and promote the self confidence the electorate so badly need.

      Let Better Together get on with what they want to do, but I think, as it was in IndyRef14, it would be a mistake to exhaust ourselves from the back foot trying to react to all the lies, threats and smears of BT.
      As de Valera said to the English, ‘We will go our own way’.

      Attack is the best form of defence, is more enjoyable, concentrates the mind and does not sap the energy nearly as much as defending all the time does. Those of you who have played football, you’ll know exactly what I mean.

      One final point, or rather a plea, to the Scottish Government. Take much better care of the elderly in i2. Give them a pension under Indy, at least equivalent to the European average. We are 6th from last at present.
      And a whopping increase in Winter Fuel Allowance.
      If the SG looks after the elderly, the elderly will look after their vote. Give them something personal, tangible and meaningful to vote for. They can’t vote so much for the future for themselves, like everyone else does. They need a reason to vote for Independence which is about RIGHT NOW!
      Otherwise Independence will be just ‘Pie in the Sky’.

      Rant over. Thanks for listening. Still got my cough though.

    256. yesindyref2 says:

      Yeah, voting should be restricted to people with a yea verily solid 25 generations of Scots ancestors, and not only that, before people are allowed to vote they should have to drink a bottle of whisky while standing on one leg eating a whole haggis and reciting the Tam O’ Shanter backwards, as our ancestors did before us.

    257. Hermodr says:


      The article is excellent, and I will see if I can promote it among friends/family when the time comes. I suppose this goes for the website in general? Thanks.

    258. manandboy says:

      The new Leader of Sinn Fein in NI, Michelle O’Neil, met with Theresa May and she said she told the Prime Minister that equality and respect must be at the heart of any new power-sharing executive.
      Michelle, I think you’ll have your work cut out there alright.

      I’m actually not aware that equality and respect has ever been on the British Establishment’s wish list of political priorities – anywhere.

    259. yesindyref2 says:

      Would all business people afraid of losing their customers in the rUK after Scottish Independence please send me their customer list?

      Thanks very much.

    260. Liz g says:

      Hemordr @ 1.21
      Try talking economics without numbers if that makes any sense.
      What I mean is the bad decisions that Westminster make.
      Well on the face of it a bad decision IE usually if you dig deep enough there is a sweetheart deal for someone.

      EG….A story I heard but you would need to verify it you’re self…
      Lab in Bathgate invent a product that they think might have a great potential.
      They need money to market it, Thatcher’s Government says we don’t do that,but we can point you to people who might be interested in buying the paitent.
      These friends duly bought the rights to that technology,and now Disposable Contact lenses are a great product for a multi national and Bathgate is not the center of the globe for making and selling them.
      Bathgate is still a relitivly poor area with a lab.
      That’s a bad economic decision unless you are a multi national with friends in Government!

      There must be very many other examples you could find to convince your parents that Westminster gets it wrong enough times on balance and in comparison with Holyrood.
      So pick an administration that’s got the best economic record!
      Good luck.

    261. yesindyref2 says:

      … and employee contact details!

    262. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 1.43
      Tell me more about this Whisky….
      Could get on board with that…Rock might finally have a point!

    263. Rookiescot says:

      JK still doing her best to earn that seat in the house of lords.

    264. Macart says:

      Mmmm, yeah, getting sick of that whole ceasing to trade with biggest trading partner bollox. They can’t and they won’t.

      The UK is not about to cease trading with EU countries and that includes Scotland. What is going to be under discussion are borders hard or soft and markets, free trade or tariff. Pay more for a thing or not as it were.

      You either want or need what countries have on offer, or you don’t. Goods, services will either be affordable, or not. What is being really talked about is the economic impact on business of tariffs. Extra expense/costs for imported/exported goods, services etc.,which in these hard times can make life difficult for traders, retailers, producers.

      Long and short of this idiotic meme is to plant the seed of fear, of unspecified threat. Worth pointing out to these boneheads that the people who have endangered international trade and relations, adversely affecting the economy of the UK most, can be found in Westminster at this very moment.

      This is a matter of trust. Who do you trust to manage your internal relations, your trade, your foreign affairs? Those who have royally fucked it up? Or those who are eager to stabilize existing access to continental markets and have consistently offered conciliatory overtures to a somewhat thrawn next door neighbour hell bent on cutting their nose off to spite their face?

      What kind of country do you want to live in?

    265. Capella says:

      As if being ruled by Westminster Tories forever and ever isn’t bad enough, we are to be blessed by a renewal of the “special relationship” with Trumpland, according to the BBC:

      “‘Hour of need’
      In her speech to the annual Republican retreat on Thursday, Mrs May will stress the unique contribution that the US and UK have made to the modern world and the institutions that underpin it, such as Nato and the United Nations.
      She will say that just as the two nations have worked hand-in-hand to “defeat evil” and to “open up the world” in the past, they now have an opportunity to “lead, together, again”.
      “The UK is by instinct and history a great, global nation that recognises its responsibilities to the world,” she will say.
      “And as we end our membership of the European Union, we have the opportunity to reassert our belief in a confident, sovereign and global Britain, ready to build relationships with old friends and new allies alike.

      Who writes this tosh?

    266. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Ah well, I may or may or not have had a glen of tranquillity with my haggis neeps and tatties (no Arran or Jura left) and been forced to what’s becoming common these days, going for a nap for a few hours after my tea. Hmm.

      Yes, perhaps that whisky drinking really should become a genuine requirement to vote. It might make a huge difference to the result of elections – or referendums! As Frankie Boyle said might happen before the Ref, people would say: “Fuck it, I’ll vote YES”.

    267. yesindyref2 says:

      @Liz g
      Mmm, shame the referendum consultation is closed, I could have put that in as my input:

      “Polling stations should have a supply of breathalysers, and nobody who can pass the breath test should be allowed to vote. 16 and 17 year-olds must produce empty tins of energy drinks.”.

    268. K1 says:

      Yeah Capella, the Republican Party who now have majorities in both Houses are really excellent advocates and supporters of ‘institutions’ like the United Nations, that they have ‘contributed’ so much to that they have just tabled a bill on the 3rd January 2017 to effectively abolish all USA involvement in the UN, this kinda puts a different ‘angle’ on that bullshit she is going to spout:

      The Bill entitled: ‘American Sovereignty Restoration Act 2017’ rather undermines TMay’s rhetoric but also is rather fittingly as grandiose and isolationist in intent as title of the Tories ‘Great Repeal Bill’.

      I smell…shite.

    269. Tom Platt says:

      Re Pete’s info about Stewart Hosie’s appearance on Daily Politics earlier.

      Hosie was set up and ambushed IMO. There were 3 people being interviewed but the other 2 didn’t get a look in during the following. Andrew Neil and the other presenter focused on setting up Stewart Hosie. I was expecting Article 50 discussion and so too was Stewart Hosie in all probability.

      Neil bombed in with his statistics. Stewart had little chance of making his point with the two of them having a go at him simultaneously. I thought that he handled himself very fluently in the circumstances. It looked as though they were out to destroy him. They didn’t succeed. Horrible stuff. Well done Stewart.

    270. K1 says:

      Polling agents should be attended by people with Expresses, Mails and Records and when people arrive they should entice the voters with those rags, anyone who takes a copy is immediately banned from voting on the grounds that they are not of sound mind…there’s yer breathalyser test right there yesindyref2 😉

    271. ChewinTheFat says:

      When James McAvoy expressed his opinion about supporting an independent Scotland, he was moaned at.

      When Andy Murray expressed his opinion about being a Yes supporter, he was also moaned at.

      When Ewan McGregor expressed his opinion that he had changed his view from being for the Union to for Independence, he was told to “shut-up and stick to acting.”

      Well, I think it’s about time someone sent a message to J.K. Rowling: “Stick to writing books.”

      Jo Rowling was someone I used to respect as a person and one of my favourite authors, but recently she has been a thorn in Scotland’s side.

      Blabbing all sorts of rubbish on Twitter all the time about things she “thinks” she knows, without actually knowing the facts.
      I used to think she was an intelligent woman, but now I can see she is just another sheep, not willing to listen to the truth or even do basic research to back up what she blabs.

      It’s actually quite insane the lengths the No voters go to try and brainwash people. J.K. being the most annoying one, trying to use her “celebrity” status. Pathetic.

    272. Ghillie says:

      I imagine the nuance of Alex Salmond’s words went straight over both JB (never heard of her before!) and JKs’ heads.

      What a daft wee pair of witches.

      Wee witches with power they do not pocess the wit to handle.

      Sad. JK at least might have been remembered for writing children’s books. Not now.

    273. yesindyref2 says:

      There is that. I’ve been talking at times to completely normal reasonable people, and then they quote something out of the Express. It’s like someone opened a trapdoor into an alternative dark matter universe. Record’s getting – curious – though, better I think. Hedging its bets since the demise of Labour.

    274. Breeks says:

      May is proud to be leading the UN is she? Can’t say I’m so sure the UN is equally proud of being led…

      …And on the day Trump is apparently endorsing torture and extraordinary rendition facilities, and going ahead with his slap in the face to Mexico with his wall, and giving Israel the green light for settlements to thereby prompt a new Intifada.

      May got one thing right; as nut job lunatics go, they make a perfect combination. Poor little Farage must be feeling left out in the cold.

      I wonder if it’s something they put in the water down South…

      The US and UK have both taken leave of their senses.

      It really is independence or bust for Scotland. I want the world to be on our side, not in our gun sights if these imbeciles don’t wise up. What they refer to as US and British isolationism, the rest of the world will call quarantine.

    275. yesindyref2 says:

      I didn’t take sides in the US election, nor did my wife. But both of us listened to the news thing tonight and thought what a complete fruitloop Trump is. One thing being like that during the campaign, get some publicity, challenge the establishment, be extreme, get the votes of the disenfranchised and fed up. But it seems he’s the genuine nutjob, just short of a white jacket tied at the back.

      I think he’s a Martian sleeper agent.

    276. woosie says:

      Innit funny – during indyref 1 we were warned that if we left uk we’d be out of EU and go bankrup while england prospers. In the run-up to indyref 2 we’re told that england will flourish on leaving the EU yet indy Scotland will go bankrupt!.

      Sadly, most yoons think that lying by their imperial masters is acceptable.

    277. ChewinTheFat says:

      Lol, in 1989, the Berlin wall came down. In 2017 United States of America, a wall goes up.

      I can only imagine, if the world hasn’t been blown up by then, that within the next 50-70 years Trump’s wall ofshame will come down.

    278. Pete says:

      Tom Platt at 3.06
      The point I’m trying to make is that to an ‘undecided potential yes voter’, Hosie’s performance was appalling.
      He’s been on Daily Politics often enough to know that Neil does his homework and is the best attack dog in the business.
      As someone spending his life and being paid by us to represent Scotland he ought to know his facts.

    279. Undeadshaun says:


      Trump reminds me of martin sheens president, not the west wing one, the dead zone one.

      Its a scary thought.

    280. Giving Goose says:

      Regarding Andrew Neil; the default position for any Yes supporting person appearing on his show should be to attack him personally as a biased, bullying, mouthpiece and cheerleader for the London Establishment.

      Destroy his credibility at every opportunity.

      Then when the BBC reacts and limits the appearance of Yes persons on his show, attack the BBC for bias.


    281. carjamtic says:

      I don’t pay a tv licence,I don’t get angry at them anymore,I’m just disappointed,they turned out to be everything they said they weren’t.


    282. gordoz says:

      Undeadshaun –

      Spot on !!!

      ‘The ice is gonna break’

      Wonder what Holy Joe Christian May will make o’ that handshake eh?

      Will she see the end of days or will she just see trident renewal and better deal for all pewk !

    283. carjamtic says:

      Just to be clear,we can all have our good and bad days,A Kneel will always be an Arehole….that’s a prick joke.


    284. Liz Rannoch says:

      @ frogesque and others

      rUK or not.

      Personal favourite is Kingdom (of) England, Wales and (N) Ireland – KEWI pronounced kuuweee. Although don’t know how Ireland would react to the (N) being left out.

    285. Admiral says:

      “The notion that Scotland and England will stop trading with each after Scottish independence is derisory”

      Firstly, hello everyone from a long-time believer in Scottish independence and lurker and reader of this illustrious website. 🙂

      I’ve followed the independence debate here and elsewhere (contributing to the Guardian – goodness knows why).

      My tuppence worth on the trade issue – why would a “global” trade nation be too parochial to trade with its immediate neighbours on our own wee shared island? This point needs to be made over and over – never mind we could be in various trade treaties and there will be no choice (for either party, I may add).

      I wish someone could break down the £50BN into categories, because I suspect a lot of trade is basic stuff like food and drink, energy and water. Where is rUK going to source replacements for that and at what additional cost?

      Anyway, off back to lurkerdom – keep up the good fight!

    286. JaceF says:

      I think the issue in 2014 was that we didn’t have a good response to project fear, we let them basically threaten without backing up the threat. This time when they give a vague threat we should immediately hound out the details.
      Unionist X says we are your biggest trading market you wouldn’t want to threaten that!
      We should be hounding every unionist:
      X says we would threaten trade with the UK if we leave, can you tell us how the trade border will work? How much will it cost you to implement a trading system? What are the tariffs, 5%, 10% a fixed tax? How much revenue do you expect it to bring in? What will be the price of Whisky, tweed in rUK? Hound, Hound, Hound. Get answers then play the answers off against the media and other unionists, see if the policies they want to impose on Scotland would be tolerated by the EU. Counter threat, how do non-Scottish land owners plan to pay the new Estate, Grouse, fishing Taxes?
      Same goes for pensions. X says there is a threat to paying pensioners. We should be asking ex-pat UK pensioners around the world if the UK’s position that they won’t pay their pensions after Brexit is acceptable. If they say it would only apply to Scottish ex-pats what about English pensioners living in Scotland? How much will it cost to implement, exact figures please. How will they fund it? Hound, Hound, Hound.
      The thing is they can vaguely threaten but the minute they give any kind of detail to the threat it’s a full on epic backlash, play the media off against each other on the issues. Use FOI’s, twitter, facebook, petitions. Get behind any attack on the establishment even if you don’t fully agree, there can be no room for in fighting.

    287. Ken500 says:

      Trump could be on the spectrum. (20% of people) Genius level but with inadequate social skills which have to be adapted or can be learnt. It can come across as bullying, (it is not), always having to be proved right. ‘It is their way or no way.’ There are reports his son is autistic. He does exhibit autistic traits. They can be obsessive with (good looking? or other traits) people. This can be diverted to more healthy interests. Or tolerating with norms if it is not too obsessive to give offence With explanation or apology. It is the different way some brains are wired and can be inherited I.e. Genetic. Can’t be helped but tolerated and understood.

      Obsessive behaviour but ‘what you see is what you get’. Outspoken and always wanting to be proved to be right. It appears conceited but it is not. Just a character trait of the spectrum. Look it up. Gifted with other exceptional analysis and spacial skills. Exception talents and abilities above the’norm’. They can have photographic memories. Sometimes unempathetic or sympathetic with something which does not have great interest. That can be considered by the participant to be boring or off no consequence. Or not understanding if other not sharing an interest of projects or getting things done. ‘A good job’ An achievement. An accomplishment which needs some appreciation or acknowledge. While not seeking to give offence but an achieved acknowledgement.

      e.g Muhammad Ali – ‘I am greatest and the prettiest’ Some free publicity. Promotion.

      Good planning skills.and high achievement with the right support. Thinking outside the box against the ‘norm’.Gifted with unique skills but lacking in social skills which can be taught. It can come across as deviant (even criminal) behaviour or dishonest but it is not intended to offend or give offence. It can seem irrational behaviour but needs understanding. To equate.

      The participant can be ignorant of the dissecting of social signals coming across. Ignore the signals, unless having help to understand. ‘Straight talking’ to the point of embarrassment. This can lead to inappropriate speech. There is an inability to lie, No ‘white lies’ Or political correctness or posturing. Still caring obsessively about a situation and finding a solution to put things right. Perfectionist. Caring and considerate in most situations but out of place in some social situation. It is ‘their way or no way’. Their’s is often the best solution in often difficult or intolerable situations. Not to generalise. Others have to understand and compensate. They often do for the advantages of the spin off.

      Look it up. Get a book or use the internet. Some best selling authors display these traits.

    288. Nana says:

      May suggests UK’s richest aristocrat landowners will get farming subsidies funded by British taxpayer after Brexit

      Disabled people are to be ‘warehoused’. We should be livid

    289. Brian Powell says:

      When Norway voted for Independence in 1905 the vote was 97% Yes (men). Women didn’t have a vote but an informal vote put their % the same. When women later did get the vote they immediately had a formal vote for women and % was repeated.

      They did they just to show how strongly they felt about running their own country.

      If some people in Scotland are put off wanting to run their own country by some criticism of an author or because, after a media campaign that vilified Alex Salmond, they don’t like Alex Salmond, I’m not sure they are made of the right kind of stuff to take responsibility or are capable of running their own country.

      Along these same lines, there is a strange kind of psychology at work in Scotland. We are asked not to criticise journalists because it upsets them and they won’t support Independence. Should we therefore not criticise Tories in case it offends their delicate sensibilities, and so they will never come round to Ind? Though they won’t anyway.

    290. Fred says:

      Hosie wasn’t born yesterday he should have expected to be hit with demands for facts & figures, it’s the nature of a beast who has nothing else up his sleeve. Salmond he aint & should keep oot the kitchen!!!

    291. Arabs for Independence says:

      Brian Powell @08:44

      I agree with your sentiments. However I wonder what would have happened to Norway if their ‘big brother’ (Sweden) knew they had a shitload of oil. Norway was a relatively poor country at the beginning of last century. I suspect Denmark and Sweden (and others?) may have advised them they were too poor, too wee and too stupid to extract oil.

      A few Swedes I know refer to the Norwegians as the crazy cousin who won the lottery. That said, I detect no animosity or negative issues between the Scandinavians.

    292. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brian Powell, not criticising journalists for writing lies , misinformation and character assassination is probably counter productive considering they have the major stage – however there is another action being taken regularly by the ‘punters’ an action clearly demonstrated in circulation figures , so hell mend the devious ,spinning scribblers of the MSM.

    293. Ken500 says:

      The trouble with IndyRef1 was it was not organised by the SNP. In the interest of diverting control to other factions in the interest of a broad church of support. The other factions were inadequate and totally not up to the task. (Greens etc – no organisationally skills). Campaign with SNP leadership would have be much better organised and professional. Funded by SNP members money. A group of unprofessionals paid themselves extravagant remuneration, fees and salary but did not have the total necessary skills for the job. They were petty and disrupted.

      The Unionist lied and broke the rules. Did not stick to the agreed allocated budget and gained from lying and braking the funding rules,The electoral rules purdah were illegally ignored by BT. They cheated to win. Wasted everyone’s time and money. They destroyed their Parties. They will continue to decline and their dishonestly gets found out. Not a good political electional policy. Don’t tell lies or yin get found out and punished at the Ballot Box. Relatively shortsighted. Soecsavers become spectators. Out of the game.

      The next IndyRef must have SNP control, organisational skills and a residential qualification. 2 to 3 years. Take out the time wasters passing through. Any second home owner getting a vote is illegal Any council giving them voting registration is acting illegally and should be reported. They will be aware of second home ownership bad registration elsewhere. Any complaints should be reported to the council and publicised. To stop this illegal practice.

    294. sassenach says:

      Just glanced at ‘What’s in the papers’, and so we know what the 3 pronged attack at FMQs will be later today!!

      Funny how so many papers magically have the same “children” story!

      Better Together is now ‘galloping’ towards us, once again, although I trust Nicola will have some ammunition up her sleeve. The BUMS are really bums.

    295. Ken500 says:

      If Norway gets better off, so does Sweden as close neighbours, The spin off benefits. The scent being on people with ability running their own countries affair. Not being damaged by economic interests from elsewhere of whom residents did vote. Imposing policies not conducive to success, prosperity and equality. The more equal a society is the more cohesive, happy and healthy are the people. Less division, mistrust and neurotic tension

    296. Ken500 says:

      May will get no concessions from Trump. On totally different wavelenth’ss. Like chalk and cheese. There is no way Trump will appreciate May’s entourage or privilege. Or vis a vis. Fish out of water.

      It could result in squit, off course Trident going.

      The Democrats lost power because of Obamacare and illegal invasions. Telling lies and cheating the majority of the people. Making their lives more difficult.

    297. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Legend has it that in the days of Empire the Scottish regiments were usually sent in first to quell the restless natives as this was easier than having them back here, fighting among themselves.

      I feel, in this phoney war state, while we wait for Maggie May to reveal anything of her demands re Brexit, we foot soldiers of the Independence Movement are Scottish regiments, confined to barracks.

      We are starting to fight amongst ourselves. We need MM to give us something we can get our teeth into.

      Nothing much will happen until MM prints her white paper, which will be as vague as the best civil service bill-drafters can make it.

      The SNP MPs will then table their amendments – see them voted down and have greater ammunition.

      Then, once Article 50 is triggered, the initial skirmishes will begin, but, the real fighting will take a wee while to get going.

      The hard bit for Nicola and the SNP will be the timing of triggering Indy2. Too early, we will lose, too-late and there could be problems setting-up a smooth transition which ensures Scotland stays in Europe while Greater England leaves.

      We have to be patient, get our tactics right and remain united. We can win this. We MUST win this. Let’s not do the auld Scot thing of rushing things.

    298. Nana says:

      How Trump changed Americans’ view of Islam – for the better

      Trump preparing executive orders to reduce U.S. role in U.N.: NY Times

      Republicans to kill U.S. rules on corruption, environment, labor and guns next week

    299. Nana says:

      Sorry guys links this morning all over the place.

      Was on the phone at the same time as posting, hearing good things. Lots of previous No voters changing their minds and some very vocal angry people after the court judgement.
      The more anger the better I reckon.

    300. Breeks says:

      More and more I find myself identifying with decent humane German citizens in the 1930’s, the ones who could foresee the terrible things to come but were powerless to prevent them happening, the people who wanted no part of it but were denied a get out clause.

      A rabid madman in the Whitehouse and a deluded Empress Britannia wannabe can have their dangerous insanity challenged and shaken back to reality if a new, emergent and vital Scottish Nation denounces the madness, and spearheads the defence of honest integrity, decency and common respect.

      Scotland MUST get to her feet and say no more of this.

      We are in a unique position, globally unique. Our strategic location in the North Atlantic is nothing beside our strategic position to denounce the son of a Scottish immigrant for his xenophobic hypocrisy and contempt for fellow man, and at the same time, nobody but Scotland is better placed to bring the Neo British Imperialism crashing to the ground before it hurts somebody.

      We can’t make it all go away, but for love of all things decent, we must make Scotland the sail which captures the wind of moral outrage and gives focus to the worlds rejection of this course of events.

      If the US wants to turn it’s back on the world, retire to its room to pull the wings off “terrorists”, while the goule with the plummy accent shrieks out for more, then these are the pariah states of tomorrow we are looking at, and it’s already the eleventh hour before midnight.

      Step up to the plate Scotland. Let us do what nobody in 1930’s Germany could do. Let us challenge this grotesque future before it happens, not lament another failure of international will in lieu of merely hoping for the best.

      I agree with Theresa May. The UN needs leadership. A firebrand at its head. That firebrand nation is Scotland.

    301. Nana says:

      Oops forgot these, too much on my mind!

      It’s the Kilmarnock East and Hurlford (Ward 4) by-election today – polling stations open from 7am – 10pm.

    302. Glamaig says:

      Radio Shortbread going for child poverty this morning. Totally omitting to tell us that it is a UK-wide problem fundamentally due to lack of well-paying jobs – caused by decades of Westminster running the economy for the benefit of the banks and SE England. Didn’t mention sanctions either.

      Without control over the wider economy or the benefit system i.e. independence, what can the Scottish Government actually do other than try and mitigate the suffering, while its Block Grant from Westminster is being cut?

      Surprised Aileen Macleod didn’t mention the bigger picture.

    303. Ed t head says:

      Just saw the bit on child poverty health on bbc web site on the uk bit they said it was health spokesman telling how it was to be fixed, but in Scotland it was the SNP, still going with SNPbad.

    304. Andrew McLean says:

      Swiss Perspective says: 25 January, 11:15 pm
      “1. Scotland trade with England higher than any other zone –> IndyRef2 a suicidal madness and receipt for bankruptcy
      2. UK trade with EU higher than any other zone –> Brexit is an act of benign wisdom that will work for everyone”

      If you don’t mind Swiss, I had to post that again. that sums up the crap we have been listening to for months, I watched T May, talking absolute codswallop on her way to Washington, behind the great media trained persona, (a lesson for a good selection of the SNP government, but,but,erm,cough,erm,oh,erm, and you sound incompetent and an fake!) was fear, clear unadulterated fear, but she sounded strong, and that in this media age, ever since JFK showed us how it is done in 1960’ all that maters to the electorate, well most of them anyway.

      And why fear, because she cannot say anything concrete about a trade deal, absolutely not, for her to say “we have signed a great deal today, and the EU will go nuts”, so instead we will have platitudes from her, and anything he says in “special” support of the UK will be seen in Europe as the gloves coming off and the UK becoming a threat to them, not a trading partner but a competitor for what looks like a diminishing US market.

      So as much as T May wants to play the most important country in the world UKOK Britannia rules the waves, all she is doing is putting her little mini between two juggernaut’s when the driver of one is clinically insane, and the other despises her.

      Oh and May, dont give a drinking cup to a man who is teetotal and who’s beloved brother died of alcoholism

    305. Breastplate says:

      do you have any genuine criticism of Trump or does your hatred for him damage your objectivity?

    306. Breastplate says:

      Speaking as a Non-American, I think it’s great that if insular means not bombing the fuck out of every nation it doesn’t like

    307. Macart says:

      @Socratese MacSporran

      RE: Confined to barracks

      Can get a bit like that. 🙂

      People need to be aware at all times who their focus should be upon, for make no mistake, they are fully focused upon us.

      Till this is over, there is only the establishment, their political class and their media. They have been are today, relentless in their pursuit of taking apart any vestige of self determination on these islands.

      365 days a year there is an anti Scottish Government assault in the news media and a 99% black out of pro Scottish Government or pro self determination news. Stop and think about that for a moment. What are the odds of that actually happening in a truly open, tolerant and inclusive democracy?

      The Scottish Government of the day and the YES movement haven’t started any wars, they haven’t mishandled or broken an economy. They’re not intolerant or oppressive. The government may not be everyone’scuppa char, but they are competent, work hard and perform their duty of care as well as can be expected in increasingly difficult economic circumstances.

      So why the negativity Moriarity?

      Quite simply, they have proven to be a viable counter to the central state and established order. They have done with a cap in hand budget and a third of government competences what the political class of central government has singularly failed to do with three hundred years of unchallenged hegemony.

      That makes them and by extension their popular support (us) a threat that the state cannot tolerate. The threat being in the shape of a society and form of government not based on aggressive acquisition, expansion and global military footprint, but exactly the opposite. Inclusion, duty of care, peaceful trade, competence, consensus and merit. The threat of a budding economy and government which won’t buy city killing bombs with your taxes, but feed bairns as it were.

      All efforts political, corporate and media are being trained upon removing that threat. Folk need something to focus on till the next big news item comes along? They should focus on what should happen if we allow the opposition to use our small differences to divide us.

    308. Cuilean says:

      So the BIG Lie by the Yoons for indy2 is that rUK will stop trading with Scotland.

      Utter hogwash.

      May concedes that, after Brexit, that trade will still go on with the EU and that is why she wants the best access deal possible to the EU single market.

      So when Scotland is an independent member in the EU the trade deal May achieves with the EU will automatically include Scotland!

      Even if Scotland was rejected by EU (LOL)! rUK could not afford to lose one of it’s biggest markets (Scotland) at a time when rUK will be scrabbling desperately around the world to achieve any kind of trade deal it can get with rest of world!

      It’s complete nonsense and any unbiased MSM would expose this nonsensical lie as soon as it is uttered, but Project Fear is alive and well via Scottish papers and the deranged SLAB rump frothing mad at BBC Misreporting Scotland.

      JIngs Kevin Hague was on the TV last night, again. An absolute plonker but thre Yoon media trundle him out ad nauseum. He was spouting this 4X trade with rUK ceasing immmediately on Scots voting to leave! So ASDA, Tesco lorries etc will immediately stop trading as England is going to turn their trucks back at the hard Scottish border after indy? I don’t think trade works that way. What the Yoons are now advocating is what Stalinist Russian attempted in West Germany which resulted in the Berlin Airlift, when East Germany (USSR) refused to let any trucks or trains into West Berlin. Is this what Yoons are predicting? A Scotland Airlift? Such a notion would be laughed at anywhere else in the world but dystopian Scotland.

      If they tried that (which they won’t) an indy Scotland govt would just say fine, get your nuke subs out TODAY! May and the Yoons won’t get it all their own way, the complete arrogant buffoons as they will shortly find out when the Big Boys (EU) comes to the table and says this is what you can have; like it or lump it, you cretins.

      Any journo worth his/her salt would have challenged Hague on this last night but they just let the lie be spread. I think I must stop watching BBC Scottish news altogether now, as not good for my health!

    309. frogesque says:

      T. May, the tartan clad fake off to ‘ America to wave the UJ.

      Just wondering who actually made that plaid abomination and, more important, where was the cloth woven?

      Would be interested if anyone with insight into fashion and lack of self awareness knows more about all this smoke and mirror act.

    310. heedtracker says:

      BBC r4 news, over and over, Teresa says, UK and America are going to regain their confidence again and lead the world again. Its not just that the far right are shit at what they do, its also their deeply repellent meeja.

    311. Andrew McLean says:

      Cuilean says:

      4x is that true?, or did you get that from the BBC, oh you did, sorry. don’t watch it myself after they were proven to lie repeatedly.

    312. Andrew McLean says:

      frogesque says:
      Trump loves Scotland, supposedly, so she is using her dominion as a in, in the negotiations.
      However Trump has ahd many run ins with the Scottish Government, so wait for the advice from him to shut the Holyrood assembly down.

    313. Capella says:

      @ frogesque – Dame Vivienne Isabel Westwood DBE RDI is a British fashion designer and businesswoman, largely responsible for bringing modern punk and new wave fashions into the mainstream. (Wikipedia) and was the designer of the tartan outfit. Westwood was actually supportive of Independence.

    314. Capella says:

      This UK trade x 4 EU farago is a clincher for “Independence in Europe”. After BREXIT, England will have negotiated trade deals with the EU, which Scotland will be a member of. It would surely then be illegal for England to discriminate against one member of the 28 states.

    315. DerekM says:

      I bet they talk about us hi mayhem when are you signing A50?Oh and tell the rug man his hands are tiny and he looks like an elephant prolapse.

      Of course we will get no help from the land of the so called free as they have their own little problem with taking land that does not belong to them from Mexico.

      Ah but it was just desert and some Indians which was full of oil and gold yes which belonged to Mexico,but like all evil empires they keep their disgraces hidden through secrets and devaluing their conquered slaves as sub human criminals to justify their actions as honorable.

    316. Dan Huil says:

      According to the radio Mrs May [Donald’s Maggie] is giving Donald [her Ronnie] a present of something called a quake.
      They say it’s a scotch thing.

    317. Ken500 says:

      Virtually the thing the US and the UK have in common is a shared language, the two most unequal countries in the world, engaging in illegal war causing a mass world migration crisis and corrupt lying politicians.

      It depends just how long, enough, people in Scotland lose patiece with Westminster Gov and have finally have had enough. More than likely as the Tories continue to trash the world economy. Playing mind games.

    318. Chitterinlicht says:

      THIS orange is much bigger than THIS apple


    319. Joemcg says:

      JaceF-I like the cut of your jib. Great post! Particularly the English pensioner in Scotland line. Probably the almost guaranteed person here to vote no.

    320. HandandShrimp says:

      I see that BBC Scotland are running with huge Scotland bad on childhood health whereas it is a category four story on the UK site. Looking at the UK site and the figures there it said that childhood mortality is 3.6 per thousand in Scotland and 3.9 in England and 4.8 in N. Ireland. The obesity rates look broadly similar too although I haven’t had time to check all the numbers.

      So I have no issue with the desire to do better to improve health and fitness but I am a little surprised at opposition parties making this an SNPbad when the areas they control are no better and in some cases worse.

    321. Fred says:

      @ Nana, can’t believe wan wummin does all these linx at that time of the morning. Is there a whole back-up team? Many thanx!

    322. Breeks says:

      Genuine criticism???

      He is advocating torture.
      He is discrimating against people on both religious and racial grounds, and not merely prejudice, but formal state prejudice.
      He is going out of his way to humiliate his Mexican neighbours which isn’t going address his immigration problems, but could just provoke acts of Latino “terrorism”, or civil disorder in Americas deep South where all the trigger happy rednecks live.
      He promotes a nuclear arms race with Russia, then buddies up to the Russians to “defeat” Isis.
      He has single handedly undermined the UN’S highly smbolic criticism of Israel building upon the illegally occupied territories, and given new impetus for the Israelis to continue with their illegal construction, and he has further promoted moving the US Embassy to Bethlehem which is not technically Israeli territory. If the Palestinians now start a new intifada, then Trump will have blood on his hands.
      He mimics and publicly humiliates disabled people in front of a massive live audience.
      He appoints racists, bigots, Klu Klux Klan sympathisers and billionaire buddies to positions of high office; putting an oil baron in charge of a contoversial pipeline put through Native American lands, and aims to permit mining and fracking in Americas National Parks.
      He is revitalising coal mining and fracking which are major contributers to climate change, whilst denying global warming. You may recall his vitriolic remarks about Scottish renewable.
      He is a misogynist, a nepotism, a sexist and a biggot.
      He makes I’ll considered remarks off the cuff which wipe billions off company shares and destroy Trade Deals that were years in the making.
      He sought to smear Obama by falsely portraying him as a Muslim and claiming he wasn’t even born in America.
      He wants to vastly remove swathes of regulation from food processing to banking, and destabilise other economies like the EU by making similar deregulation central to US Trade Deals. That is regulation which protects you and I as consumers from the greed and corner cutting of corporate business. The TTIP Trade deal with Europe was sponsored by predatory US drug companies and medical insurance companies who wanted to skin European nations for their lucrative health care potential.
      He advocates a Trade war with China. He penalises businesses who build factories abroad which maintains should be built in America.

      Trump is agitating race hatred and xenophobia in precisely the same way UKIP and the far right did in the UK, but is also rewarding far right characters and anti abortionists to strategic positions of influence. He prompts nazi salutes from far right supporters, then asks them to refrain during in inauguration.

      But apart from all that I’m sure he’s a great guy.

      This man is the most powerful politician on the planet.

      You think my criticism is misplaced?

    323. heedtracker says:

      BBC headline, with a gift from their colony too.

      “Theresa May says US and UK can lead world again, ahead of Trump meeting

      Theresa May will present Donald Trump, whose mother was born in the Outer Hebrides, with an engraved quaich, a Scottish artefact symbolising friendship.
      The shallow bowls were traditionally used in Scotland from the 17th Century as drinking cups.”

      A Scottish artefact, for gawds sake. Scottish artefact from a region of the UK, straining to get away from them, from tory that wants to turn the whole region into an artefact, oil producer, aside.

    324. Ken500 says:

      Cauch – Gaelic – Medieval.

      Whisky Scottish. Whisky companies evade tax. Many pay no (corporation) tax in Scotland but make vast profits on Scottish resources. Deprive Scotland and fuel poverty. Minimum pricing?

      May is totally out of place in the White House. They will need translation. Speaking a different language. Lost in translation. Chalk and cheese. There will be no ‘special deal’ or ‘relationship’. May is going to come down to earth with a bang. So are the Tory class ridden Royals, The class system holds Britain back. Unearned, unequal privilege making the UK the most unequal country in the world. Thatcher.

    325. Ken500 says:

      Trumps policies will be challenged in the US Courts. There will be no torture or repatriation of migrants. The wall is intended to keep out drug smugglers. They use tunnels. A waste of money (£Billions) which has not been agreed by Congress, More Mexican migrants have left the US than are trying to enter. The Mexican migrants commit less crime than US citizens. (Pro rata). The migrants are more law abiding.

    326. Proud Cybernat says:

      A nice summary from Peter Bell:

      “Unionists are defined by the fact that they are happy to accept a situation in which the government Scotland elected is overruled by a government Scotland rejected. It is an essential part of British nationalist ideology that democracy is only to be respected when it serves the interests of the British state.”

    327. Nana says:


      A back up team, I wish!
      It used to be fairly easy but since brexit there is an awful lot of stuff out there.

      I do get some links sent to me plus I have a stock of sites I visit to see what’s what. I usually spend my evenings reading and deciding which articles to post, in between family stuff cooking and all the other stuff we women do…. lol

      My difficulty is deciding where to put the links, always mindful of the thread and really apprehensive disturbing it. So long as folks want my links I guess I will plod on.

      Oh and anyone wanting to tackle my ironing pile, clean some windows, etc etc [just kidding]

    328. Shug says:

      The argument that needs to be deployed now is how Westminster betrayed the union

      Disregarding Scottish interest
      Sacrificing Scottish interests
      Disbanding Scottish regiments
      The argument must be Westminster has left us

    329. Capella says:

      Feeling Rotten: the meaning of Theresa May’s Vivienne Westwood suit, The Guardian.

      …the suit’s repetition is delivering a subliminal visual message: May’s role in carrying out the mandate of the referendum to see Brexit through to the bitter end, has not and will not change. If yesterday’s rhetoric focused on “keeping the union together”, wearing Black Watch tartan was a palpable nod towards Scotland, but one feels that’s where this unity ends.

    330. Robert Peffers says:

      @Swami Backverandah says: 26 January, 2017 at 1:06 am:

      “Somewhere out there in the Realm of Delusion, a Yoonatic punter is trying to sell the idea that because at present the value of Scotland’s exports to the UK is significantly higher than that to the EU, that when Scotland achieves Independence, somehow it will lose those exports to rUK.”

      I see the apparent logic in your opinions, Swami, but also see flaws in the logic.

      You go on to say, ” … Because, obviously, the rUK would have to seek its imports of Scottish produce, eg Scotch whisky, from other sources.
      Oh, wait …

      But here are the flaws. The claim made that Scotland’s value of exports to, “The UK”, is wrong. In the first place because Scotland is the only actual partner of two partners in the United Kingdom and thus the claim of value of exports to, “The UK”, is either inclusive of Scotland, or conversely, the definition of, “The UK”, is wrong.

      Secondly we already know that much of the figures claimed as exports to, “The UK”, are actually Scots products going Worldwide but via English ports and airports and then wrongly accounted by Her Majesty’s Customs & Excise as being English exports.

      Then we have that other statistical prestidigitation where United Kingdom wide business such as ASDA, TESCO, Sainsbury & Sommerfield all make their tax returns via English/London Head Offices that are then accounted by Her Majesty’s Treasury as English.

      It is the old, old, story of the deliberate confusion sponsored by the Westminster Establishment between the terms, Britain, Great Britain, The UK, England. et al. They know exactly what they are doing but the general public public falls for it every time.

      By doing things this way Westminster has not only now become the de facto Parliament of England but has just seen the Supreme Court they created rule that Scotland, as either a Kingdom or country, no longer exists but is totally under the sovereignty claimed by a Westminster that declares itself the de facto parliament of the country of England.

    331. FredaFlintstone says:


      Aye, that Nana mus be werking for they guvinmint, them seps, cannae trust em!

    332. Breastplate says:

      Wait a second and let’s see if I can boil your argument down.
      Torture, name calling, upsetting trade deals, competing against the Russians, not competing against the Russians, aiding Israel, interfering in the Middle East and generally being a fuckwit.

      Well here’s the thing Breeks, I agree with all of that apart from the Russians bit.

      Now can you tell me why he’s so different from any of the fuckwits that came before him that’s getting you all hot and bothered.

      Because I haven’t seen you getting on your high horse about the millions who have died because of American foreign policy before Trump was ever on the scene.

      So get a grip and indulge yourself in a large dose of objectivity.

    333. Phil Robertson says:

      “Do you actually understand the statistics from that report,
      So just how can you, or anyone else. draw conclusions regarding Scotland’s 15 year olds when the current CFE system is less than 15 years in operation and thus these 15 Year olds cannot be representative of the present state of Scottish Education?”

      You made a statement about statistical fact. However your response would indicate that you wouldn’t recognise a statistical fact if it slapped you in the face.

      The point about the PISA exercise is that it is a comparative exercise not longitudinal. It measures the ability of children irrespective of the system they are subject to. So CfE is a red herring.

      ” … More generally, the kneejerk response that things are worse elsewhere is of little comfort to those waiting for operations in Grampian or stuck in a corridor in A&E at the QEU hospital”
      Now, Phil, please indicate where I actually made a Knee Jerk response? I stated a statistical fact.”

      Sorry, missed the statistical fact. When asked to discuss the issues in the health and education sectors your response was the “England – WOOOOORRRSE” mantra.

      Which you then go on to repeat, restating that things are worse elsewhere in the Britain.

    334. Valerie says:

      Capella & frogesque

      I knew it was Westwood, and I imagine Westwood is cringing, as she has been quite vocal about Tories, lent her support to anti fracking etc. May has another Westwood outfit, and she looks like a panto dame in it.

      Speaking as a female in her 50s, the PM needs advice on dressing, because she wears idiotic stuff for her position. She greeted Donald Tusk in a skirt with a split, almost to her crotch, and when she sat down for pics, she sat clutching the ends together for modesty. Poor Mr Tusk, trying to hold on to his breakfast.

      It’s good that women at the top express their personality via their dress, but it still has to be suited to the task in hand. No doubt some rabid feminists think women shouldn’t discuss dress sense, but part of sisterhood, imo, is telling your friend, sorry, that’s doing you no favours, or I like that other thing on you better.

      I do think Nicola gets it right, and she does mix it up depending on the occasion. As she said, she knew she would be under scrutiny, so she takes trusted advice from some that know what suits her shape.

      Just as a personal opinion, I think May doesn’t look well, she has aged considerably. I know she has Diabetes, and she no doubt has to work hard to manage that given her stress levels.

    335. Ken500 says:

      The Obama/Clinton Democrats engaged in illegal wars killing and maiming millions of innocent people, worldwide. Causing the worst migrant crisis in the world. Introduced Obamacare because Obama did not care. Imposing draconian tariffs on people which they can’t afford to pay. The burden falling on the poorer. Kiling people in the US and bankrupting people. Drove down US living standards and making the US the second unequal country in the world with the highest debt. Killing and maiming and causing an increase in mental health problems. Worldwide.

      Too many people are once again falling for lying MSM propaganda. Causing panic.

      Trump spoke out again the illegal Iraq invasion, saying it was so stupid, illegal and useless in 2003. He spoke out against the Bankers. Saying they should all be put in jail. He lost $Millions in the Banking crash 2008. Before any bid or thought to become President. He thought the Politicians were behaving so incredibly badly, which they were. Obama was killing innocent Muslims. Carpet Punishment. Carpet illegal bombing. Clinton is a corrupt criminal. Very political correct. A total, astute crook. She should be put in jail. She broke US Law with impunity and ruined the world economy. Obama is the same. A greedy, lying hypocrite warmonger who let down the US people causing mayhem. Obama is a disgrace, Broken promises. A poseur, opportunist. The biggest most unequal, in debt country in the world. Some legacy. Turned off people in the US from politics. Betraying the voters and the people. The US political system is quite weak.

      Anything unconstitutional act by Trump will be challenged in Congress and the Courts. He will have to change policies and try to save face. Checks and balances. The US voters will vote again in 18months for the Senate and can influence the US political system every two years. Trump and associates are well aware of that. His tax affairs will have to be produced or they will be leaked.

      The US has approx 300Million people. 50 State. Average out pop by State – 6Million people. Approx same as Scotland, but some States have less some States have more. State Law governs most people day to day lives. A Federstion. The Fed Gov seems out of touch to many citizens.

      Although the US is important in the world. The EU holds more importance and more people. Along with other (larger) countries.

    336. Breeks says:

      Breastplate says:
      26 January, 2017 at 11:37 am

      Wait a second and let’s see if I can boil your argument down….
      So get a grip and indulge yourself in a large dose of objectivity.”

      Please go ahead and point out where I have said anything lacking in objectivity.

    337. Ken500 says:

      May’s advisers chose her clothes and her policies. He husband is a multimillionaire tax evader fund planner/manager. That is what getting out of the EU is about for the Tories and their associates. To continue to tax evade like most Westminster Unionist politicians. That is why they join Unionist Parties, to embezzle public money and defraud the taxpayers. Wasting public money grotesque projects etc.

      The Tories are one of the only associations in the world who have banned renewables and support Nuclear. Appalling Ignorant incompetence. Nuclear is the biggest treat to the world even more than the climate changing. That can be managed. Nuclear cannot. There is no safe way to despose of it. It is the most dangerous, dirty and dearest in the world.

    338. Breastplate says:

      Breeks, I believe your objectivity falls down when Trump’s failings are magnified and not in comparison to others sharing the same position.

    339. HandandShrimp says:

      Which you then go on to repeat, restating that things are worse elsewhere in the Britain.


      The point is things are worse. This does not mean that we should not strive to improve things in all four countries of the UK. However, given that the four countries are governed by four separate administrations of different political stripes it does rather make opposition leaders in Scotland look like complete twats trying to make political capital out of any perceived failings in Scotland.

      Yes, we should strive to do better but a whiny SNPbad mantra when your own party is patently not getting to grips with the issue where they are leading just looks plain stupid. You need to hold up an exemplar policy and say “see, this is how it is done”. They can’t do that because their performance is worse. They might as well paint a target on their arse.

    340. Ken500 says:

      May’s designers clothes (Royals) cost £thousands of public money. It is an obscene waste in times of austerity. £Thousands for a coat – dress – shoes. Since May has been criticised for the cowbag trousers. It is noticeable May has started to dress down on accasion to dress more suitably modestly. It does matter. The image she aspired. Starving people to death. Can’t walk and talk at the same time. A total public disgrace.

    341. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sassenach says: 26 January, 2017 at 1:08 am:

      “I see our pet food salesman was on Scotland Tonight, but not very convincing about trade figures UK/EU.”

      Not surprising given that the quoted trade figures are demonstrably sheer and utter bare faced lies. As are almost every other set of Westminster quote statistical data on any given subject under the Sun.

      Many other Wings commenters than i have highlighted the many Westminster creative accounting methods.

      As, for example, how they manipulate, export figures by accounting things produced in Scotland as English Exports because they leave, “Britain”, (more correctly the United Kingdom bit of Britain), from an English port or airport.

      There are no Westminster produced figures that tell the true facts and the Office of National Statistics, (ONS), has much more lies than truths which, of course, is how Westminster designed it to be.

      Why else did you imagine they, and their propaganda wing, have, since long before the Treaty of Union, deliberately confused the terms, “Country, Kingdom, United Kingdom, Great Britain, Britain, The British Isles, The UK parliament and The non-actual Parliament of England?

      It is all a big con and so many Scots have been so much brain washed they too propagate these myths. We Scots are our own worst enemies and I don’t just mean the committed Unionists.

    342. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Professor Nicole Busby’s article on Brexit and social rights in Scotland (one of Nana’s links).

      I agree, all efforts must be made to protect what few rights we have. However, this is meaningless unless the Scottish government has full control of economic policy, as well.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    343. Dorothy Devine says:

      Dan Huil , is that the same as a ‘knee trembler”

      ( forgive my vulgarity but the Oval office always reminds me of Clinton)

    344. CameronB Brodie says:

      The desk study on Human Rights and Economics investigates the relationship between human rights and economics, in particular reflecting on tensions, misconceptions, synergies, and positive relationships. The study presents arguments on how human rights approaches may improve development outcomes and the quality of economic growth, both in short and in longer terms. Furthermore, the study presents a series of case studies demonstrating how human rights have been integrated into development policies and how this has affected economic policy, if at all. The study comprises two parts: Part 1 gives a conceptual overview of human rights and economics discourse, and Part 2 describes how human rights may be integrated practically
      into development economic

    345. Ken500 says:

      Scotland has one of the best education systems in the world.

      55% of the population have a University education. One of the highest in the world. 32% before they are 30 years. 20% Mature students. Lifelong learning opportunities, 15% of EU students reciprocal. Overseas students who pay the full whack. Students? from elsewhere getting a Scottish taxpayer subsidised education. College places etc. Tradespeople with a skill can earn a comfortable living. IT, draughting, engineering skills etc. Hairdresser, beauty etc Some of the happiest workers – good earnings and conditions. HNC/HND can go on to 2nd year Uni placement.

      £1.7Billion+ funding.

      China, Japan Finland etc 40% of the pop have University education.

      Finland (5million pop) – 10 Universities. (+Colleges)

      Japan (100million pop) 100 Universities (+Colleges)

      China (1.3Billion pop) 2200 Universities (+Colleges)

      Scotland (5million pop) 15 Universities (+Colleges)

      The tests – South Korea – kid cruelty – pupils committing suicide. Pupil study from 7 am till 12pm – 6 days a week. Child abuse and cruelty. They are debating to change their system. To be more comparable to excellence in Scotland. One of the best education systems in the world. Which could be even better without Unionist illegal lying interference. They are a public disgrace. Ignoring all the good work done in schools. Most teachers and staff are exemplary.

      Tests – Finland one of the highest highest suicide rates in the world. Despite the higher test result.

      Test – China forget it. Studying from morning to night, with higher stress levels.

      Test incomparable,ignorant abc useless. Stop the uncomparable tests, Not comparing like with like. Stop Unionist liars who need more education and stronger ethics.

      Scotland needs to give teachers a minor course on additional needs. 20% of pupils. To help teachers and pupils. Have help and support for additional needs pupils, which is good but could be even better.

      The elecorate can vote out the Unionists who are illegal underfunding schools and depriving them of intending funding. May 2017. To help improve education, NHS, social care, drug ‘total abstinence’ counselling, bus passes, police/fire services and pot holes etc. Cut out the Unionist Middle men not supporting public services. Lying and wasting public money on non mandated grotesque carbuncles and projects. Totally illegally. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

      The trams are underpriced and under used in the wealthiest city in Scotland. Subsidised transport. They should be at least £10 return for the comparative journey. (Bus) passes can’t be used on the trams. Bus passes are not applicable in peak hours. 9am or 5pm periods. People in rural parts have to depend on car use (costs) because there are limited bus services but subsides Edinburgh transport systems.

    346. Ken500 says:

      Nana (painful, sore hands).

      Thanks for the links. They are brilliant. Thanks for all you do. You give people great hope and esteem. Break the cycle. Thanks.

      Rev Stu too. Thanks a Billion.

    347. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Nana.

      {Oh and anyone wanting to tackle my ironing pile, clean some windows, etc etc [just kidding}

      Thats whit you hiv ah Norman fir, tell him ah said Hi & pull his finger oot loL.

    348. Fred says:

      Nana, ye’re some wummin tae be jist the wan wummin!

      Good article by Michael Fry in today’s National.

      Hope Theresa will be haudin oan tae her ha’penny!

    349. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ed t head says: 26 January, 2017 at 9:53 am:

      “Just saw the bit on child poverty health on bbc web site on the uk bit they said it was health spokesman telling how it was to be fixed, but in Scotland it was the SNP, still going with SNPbad.”

      Yes, Ed t head, I noticed the obviously co-ordinated Westminster Propaganda machine attacks, too. The BBC Scotland programme this morning was a masterclass in a BBC, (Big Bullying C****), presenter browbeating the SG Spokesperson with the now usual – ask question, (let victim start to reply), Interrupt and then ask another question and repeat The mixture as before.

      Then I anticipated that FMQ’s would also be part of the same, obviously co-ordinated, Unionist attack dogs.

      I was right and the three Unionist party leaders began their co-ordinated attacks with the usual other party attackers adding their co-ordinated input to the attacks.

      I even anticipated the subjects they would all choose. I cannot understand, though, why these Unionist Party branch managers do not understand that they do their headquarters office no good whatsoever.

      For example the attack upon the SNP over the Scottish NHS waiting times when the SG do not run Hospitals, never mind their A&E Departments. The local council dominated Hospital Boards not only employ the SNHS workers but run the Hospitals too.

      The same goes for Education. It is the Local Council Education Committees that run schools and they also allocate the funding. Not to mention that many councils have been caught out NOT using the extra funding for specific problems for helping the specific problem. Some even not spending any of the extra on education but diverting it elsewhere.

      These incompetent idiots obviously imagine the voters are all idiots like themselves.

      It certainly is not coincidence that these people all co-ordinate their attacks. It will, of course become worse now but that means it will also become very much more apparent, even to the more gullible, what they are up to and thus more apparent it is total lies.

    350. Ken500 says:

      Scotland lost thousands of jobs and £Billions over the last 6 years because of Osborne’s malicious, ignorant interference in the Scottish economy. Taxing the Oil sector at 89% to 60% when the price had fallen.75% Losing £24Billion+ which could have eradicated relative child/poverty in Scotland. Supported NHS renewables, social services, education and jobs, Scotland could have had relatively full employment.

      Along with cutting drink/drug consumption (minimum pricing delayed). Whisky companies made to pay their tax on Scottish resources. Meaning a healthy on average population. Less stress. Cutting £1Billion a year on squint, absolute obsolete Trident. Absolute child/poverty could have been eradicated.

    351. Nana says:

      @Ken500 Thank you Ken, we are all Wingers fighting for Scotland’s benefit.

      @Ronnie Anderson Trying to whip him into shape Ronnie, hard work though it is lol.

      Fred says:
      Nana, ye’re some wummin tae be jist the wan wummin!

      Ah Fred perhaps I have a split personality hahaha

      Gawd Fred I nearly choked on my soup on reading this,

      Hope Theresa will be haudin oan tae her ha’penny!

    352. Ken500 says:

      ‘Daily Politics’ and other political programmes have an extremely low viewership in Scotland. It will mostly be Independence aware supporters, who will be watching. The majority of the population in Scotland do not watch. The only way Andrew Neil is recognised in Scotland as a Thatcher loving Tory who destroyed the ‘Scotsman’. Now about bankrupt.

      The role of lying for the Tories on the BBC. Westminster’s man who is Is in their pocket. On speed dial to Tory Westminster Press Office. Cameron and Osbourne etc. Massively embezzled under declared, tax evaded public money. BBC has to publish salaries soon. That should put the cat among the pigeons. Rating wise. A few salaries and expenses will have be reined in.

    353. frogesque says:

      @Capella 10.37

      Thanks for the info re V. Westwood, didn’t want to go off half cocked.

      Still think the outfit makes her look like a sack of tatties though.

    354. Breeks says:

      Breastplate says:
      26 January, 2017 at 11:52 am
      Breeks, I believe your objectivity falls down when Trump’s failings are magnified and not in comparison to others sharing the same position.

      Sorry Breastplate, I disagree. Trump is way out on a limb, and more lurid and dangerous that any other US President I can remember, and that’s no small claim to fame after J Dubya, or even Ronnie Reagan.

      Trump is a sociopathic megalomaniac. He treats everything in life as a gamble. Even his Mexican wall is a business “deal”, but he isn’t dealing with dollar bills and real estate anymore, he is using the lives, liberties and deprivations of ordinary people for his jollies. What Donald wants he gets, and if a few hundred Mexicans or Palestinians end up dead because of it, or just a little bit tortured at the edges, well who the hell cares? That’s an acceptable price to pay when you’re a closet white supremacist and the big Kahuna in full control.

      There is one aspect to Trump where I do lose my objectivity. There’s an irrational thought in my head that if you removed the arrogance and racism in Trump and replaced it with sectarianism, added a wee pinny and a bowler hat… well, you can work out the rest. No need to adjust the colour. But heaven help us if such people ever assumed command.

    355. Regarding Scotland’s trade with rUK after Brexit. England is not self-supporting in food, so must import. This could apply even more given the loss of EU nationals to harvest and pack food for sale. So it will have to source food from elsewhere. Enter Trump’s trade policy.

      I would imagine that when rUK is deluged with growth hormone bred beef and GM fruit and vegetables, and drug and prescription charges have soared along with high costs to access privatised health care, that there will be a definite market for grass fed, unadulterated Scottish beef and almost local, healthily sourced fruit and vegetables. Indeed, like organic produce which has grown from nothing to having a significant slice of the market, I can see an rUK clamour for good Scottish produce which can then be sold at a premium.

      So far from harming us, I can see Brexit might indeed be good for a Scotland that remains inside the EU.

    356. Stu Mac says:


      I agree. I’ve only read one of JKR’s Potter books, the first one given to me by a friend who knew I liked fantasy and children’s books. I thought it was an OK read. Kids who like that kind of thing will enjoy it. Nothing exceptional though and what did leap out at times was the plagiarism.

      I use “plagiarism” advisedly as there is the old saying “ordinary authors plagiarise, great authors steal”. This saying is used often to excuse plagiarism (and I’ve seen it used to excuse JKR) but what it means is when you plagiarise you are obviously not being original but when you “steal” you make it your own, in other words you absorb other people’s idea and you perform that artist’s magic which turns them into something new and exciting.

      JKR has never done this. I reckon she could have made a decent career as a half decent kids writer but she got lucky – a film studio was looking for something to base a kids fantasy series on and her book (they signed her up after book 1 was out) was just the ticket. The fact that it is not top notch was actually a good thing; the great, original works are very difficult to transfer successfully to film. The more mundane are easier and you can easily add acting and directing skills and CGI to gloss it into something better than the original.

      Sorry to witter on about her so much but I think while it is wrong – and counter productive – to just slag her off, in view of her using her money and influence in the way she does makes it valid to point out that it is based on luck to a good degree and not exceptional talent.

    357. Stu Mac says:


      Got so carried away with my JKR rant I forgot to say I agree with you re Tolkien. I can see how many people may not like LOR either due to a dislike of a certain kind of fantasy (“not another f^cking elf!”) or it is a bit slow to start with so may get put off if you like books to start with a bang) however to describe his prose as turgid I think shows the reviewer either has a massive prejudice against him or doesn’t really appreciate good writing. Actually I don’t think I really appreciate the writing properly until I’d read it a second time.

    358. Les Wilson says:

      Dorothy Bruce says:

      Ref food in Scotland, I asked the SG at some point over their policy of no GM crops being on sale in Scotland. They pointed out that none are grown here due to their policy.
      However, we still do not know what gets supplied to us by all the supermarkets which means anything could be being added, GM as an example and we would be told nothing about it.

      Take, that the supermarkets are all English, excepting Aldi and Lidl, we are open to food abuse we do not want. Unless GM are TOTALLY banned in Scotland not just what is grown here,and I do not think that is the case. We may all be swallowing the stuff and would never be told so.

    359. Breastplate says:

      I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

      “But heaven help us if such people ever assumed command.”
      Such people have always been in command.

    360. Caroline Corfield says:

      Can I just make it absolutely clear that it is illegal to register to vote at more than one location. It says so on the back of the form the Registrar sends out every October-time for the electoral register. I checked last year when I filled mine out. I’m fairly certain there was registration jiggery pokery going on for Indyref(1), but also sure it doesn’t add up to 400,000 odd votes.

    361. Fred says:

      @ Another Union etc! Spot on about Dalyell, Loch was Patrick Sellar’s boss, the family had a wee estate in Edinburgh called Drylaw, now a scheme I believe? Sellars is buried at Elgin Cathedral, a popular spot if you’re caught short! 🙂

      @ Cactus, well noticed the Tennents saltires, now owned by Magner’s so probably explains the missing Butcher’s Apron?

    362. Peter Clive says:

      Shutting down a troll with one tweet:

      Retweeting @MoFloMoJo

      1,018,322 voted for Brexit
      1,617,989 voted for Scotland

      Two can play that game, @jk_rowling

      No response so far …

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