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When is a doctor not a doctor?

Posted on July 15, 2014 by

A post appeared on the news-and-discussion site Reddit Scotland last night. We’ve reproduced it in full below, because it seems like something people should know.

“I’m an NHS doctor (GMC #7036831)*, and seeing [the image below] on my feed made me very suspicious at how they arrived at this claim (I’m voting Yes, by the way).

btdocs

Some facts about this rather misleading image.

Better Together polled 106 Scotland-dwelling fellows of the London-based Academy of Medical Sciences. Of the 76 respondents, 73 indicated their preference as remaining in the UK. So that’s the 93% figure dealt with.

Who are the Academy of Medical Sciences? Their “about us” page states:

‘Our elected Fellows… are drawn from the fundamental biological sciences, clinical academic medicine, public and population health, health technology implementation, veterinary science, dentistry, medical and nursing care and other professions allied to medical science as well as the essential underpinning disciplines including mathematics, chemistry, physics, engineering, ethics, social science and the law.’

This is not an NHS-affiliated organisation and its membership is evidently drawn from such a wide range of disciplines, many of which not directly related to clinical medicine, that calling their respondents “top doctors” is arguably very misleading.

Who funds the Academy? Well, their site states they do receive funding from the Department of Health, but their donors list is essentially a directory of huge multinational drug and medical technology firms.

What are their aims? Here’s one of the sections:

‘We seek to capitalise on our independence and ability to connect stakeholders from across the life sciences sector to… [Facilitate] strong and equitable partnerships between academia, industry and the NHS… along with promoting effective engagement with regulators and policy makers…’

So, there you have it. Better Together have presented the above figure as a majority of ‘leading doctors’ planning to vote No. What we actually find, with a minimum of Google detective work, is that the ‘leading doctors’ are actually Fellows of a London-based organisation, primarily concerned with academia and not directly affiliated with the NHS, funded in part by donations by big pharma and openly stating their aims include influencing policy decisions.

Are Better Together openly lying to people on Facebook? You decide.”

We have little to add, other than to note the comically-inadequate sample size of just 76 people. Uncharacteristically, the Scottish media seems to have been rather wary of this “poll” – the only reporting of it we could find from a quick Google was in the Herald, where it was mentioned in passing in relation to something else.

Perhaps even the press are learning that you can’t trust a word “Better Together” say.

.

*We checked the number on the GMC website and it returned a registered current doctor, qualified from the University of Glasgow.

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    3 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

    1. 15 07 14 11:18

      When is a doctor not a doctor? | Scottish Independence News

    2. 17 07 14 00:48

      Daily Docs #47 | Frann Leach

    3. 19 07 14 20:14

      Ridiculous UKOK Claim of the Day #59 | mjaei

    173 to “When is a doctor not a doctor?”

    1. Gordon Hay says:

      Thanks Rev, I’ve been trying to draw attention to this blatent deception on Twitter for a couple of days.

    2. G H Graham says:

      It seems that even with the administration of life threatening quantities of intravenous hypnotic medications sufficient to convince a horse that it’s a two legged pig, it would still be insufficient to coerce …

      1. Alistair “Secretary of State for Portsmouth” Carmichael

      2. Alistair “Flipper” Darling

      3. Blair “Knuckle dragger” McDougall

      to start broadcasting the truth.

      Surely, if water boarding is good enough to extract “intelligence” from the Taliban, then it seems perfectly appropriate to deploy against this troupe of treacherous imposters.

    3. Richard Lucas says:

      I have a very old friend, like myself English by origin, but who has spent most of his life here in Scotland. He is a doctor in General Practice, and is a committed ‘Yes’. So, can I claim that from my polling, 100% of English born doctors in Scotland are Yessers?

    4. Cath says:

      I saw this and thought *bullshit* but had no way to prove it.

      The one thing I did notice though, and have noticed happening a lot more recently, is that the post was just from BetterTogether.net. Back two years ago, almost everything on the BT Facebook thread was shared from media reports – often the Scotsman, Herald, Sun etc and from official reports or “experts”.

      Over the past year or so they’ve been forced to retreat to ever shrinking ground: the Telegraph and Daily Express mainly, the occasional Scottish tabloid piece, but frequently just their own site.

      Clearly that means firstly, what’s being published in the more widely read Scottish media isn’t as helpful to them as it once was. And secondly, the media are not running their press releases and stories as readily (and no doubt those two things are connected).

    5. heedtracker says:

      So fats B needs another pair of flame proof trews. Wish I’d put some money in the flame proof trousers business before bettertogether actually got going.

    6. Luigi says:

      The relentless manufacturing of fake stories by a desperate BT MSM, through spin, half-truths and, increasingly blatant lies, simply to meet the weekly quota of anti-Scottish headlines, is doing their long-term cause no good at all. Some short-term gain is certainly achieved, sometimes, although the law of decreasing returns is now evident I’m afraid that they have cried wolf far too often during the past two years.

      A huge number of people in Scotland no longer take BT MSM seriously, and that number continues to grow each day. A compliant MSM was a wonderful, tasty pudding for BT to distract the people with, but they have over-egged it completely, leaving a very bad taste in the mouth.

      For most people, the “Oh gosh, I never realised!” response has now been replaced with “Here we go again, do they think we are complete idiots?”. A natural advantage has been squandered. And they only have themselves to blame.

    7. bugsbunny says:

      Dear God, when plain propaganda fails to achieve its goal, simply resort to downright lies. Can this organisation not be fined for printing downright lies? Or is it a case of Pinnochio trying to hide his nose everytime he speaks for Better Together. I wonder what a future student of Scottish History will make of their downright lies? These organisations and individuals are the absolute scum of the Earth. I can’t wait to see the coverage of the Orange Walk through Edinburgh on Saturday 13th September with their Better Together Banner. That should be worth several tens of thousands of yes converts. Maybe as an encore they will smash a bottle over a babies face this time. Fascist Scum.

      Stephen.

    8. Robert Whyte says:

      AD:- Here is my CV.
      BT:- So it says here you are a two faced lying rat that was in charge as the chancellor when UK had the biggest meltdown for generations.
      AD:- Yes but not my fault and Scotland loves me.
      BT:- Ok that sound good enough for us your hired.

    9. macart763m says:

      More deceit and misrepresentation.

      People you can trust with governing a country.

    10. caz-m says:

      Rev

      The official Better Together website is also running with this blatant lie.

      http://bettertogether.net/blog/entry/scotlands-top-doctors-say-no-thanks-to-separation

    11. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T – A view from London on the .scot domain name announcement.

      Read it, laugh at the irony of the ‘parochial’ bit, and vote YES :-

      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/15/scotland_declares_digital_offensive_from_the_the_evil_dot_co_dot_uk/

    12. HandandShrimp says:

      I made the Daily Wail’s hall of fame for suggesting that BT stood for Bitter Traitor (it was a humorous observation in the Guardian in relation to Chris Deerin’s embarrassing nonsense on being British) however perhaps BT actually stands for Blatant Tricksters.

    13. galamcennalath says:

      What makes it deceitful is the stethoscope. That makes it crystal clear they refer to medical doctors. Which as pointed out by Stu makes it a lie.

      Every political campaign has selective use of facts, spin and opinion. Never in my life have I witnessed such a stream of blatant lying.

      And, they aren’t very good at it! If they had found some data which could have been twisted to give a percentage of 70 or 80 even, it might be plausible. But 93% !? How can that be considered credible?

      The danger with lying is being found out. Once found out, you are a liar. What you say cannot be believed.

      Are they grossly incompetent, or do they just not care about getting caught?

    14. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Dalhacus

      the register is a bit of an ironic site.

    15. Brian Powell says:

      I did say some time ago that organisations that are being ‘used’ by Better Together i.e. BT claiming to speak for them, really need to speak up and, while not taking a political stance, make it clear that BT or anyone else, cannot use them to endorse their position.

      Of course they are making the more general claim of ‘top doctors’ but not specifying the NHS, however it must be crystal clear to the NHS doctors, that they are being used.

      It is their service that could be at risk by this tactics and deception.

    16. MochaChoca says:

      ‘We seek to capitalise on our independence…’

      Don’t they mean ‘separatism’?

    17. Bunter says:

      @ bugsbunny

      History is written by the victors. They want to win at all costs.

    18. Flooplepoop says:

      From Research Councils UK website.

      “Maintaining access to a full range of world-class research facilities, either in the UK or abroad, is vital if the UK is to remain a leading centre of research excellence”

      http://www.rcuk.ac.uk/research/infrastructure/

      Does Scotland get funding due to a sense of charity or because it has top research facilities and researchers?

      This kind of faux polling by Better together should be ripped apart and exposed, like most of the fiction they contaminate the debate with.

    19. GrahamB says:

      Slightly O/T but still on the subject of manipulation of data, http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/14/gchq-tools-manipulate-online-information-leak
      Something we have probably all suspected or assumed happens.

    20. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “The official Better Together website is also running with this blatant lie.”

      Um, yes, that’s what the picture links to.

      DOESN’T ANYONE EVER BLAH BLAH ETC

    21. bugsbunny says:

      BT: Bad Taste.
      BT: Bitter Together.
      BT: Balderdash & Twaddle
      BT: Burier of Truth.
      BT: Bloody Tories.
      BT: Bawbag Toungers.
      BT: Beasts who “ahem” Teens.
      BT: Bayonets of “Traitors”.
      BT: Barefaced Traitors.
      BT: Boyloving Tories.
      BT: Buggers of Teens

      Stephen.

    22. Robert Peffers says:

      The whole clamjamfrie that is the disgusting No campaign are the authors of more impossible illusions than Harry Houdini.

      Unfortunately, even now, weak minded people believe both Harry Houdini and Better Together are everything they claim to be.

    23. TYRAN says:

      # You’re being fooled again
      # Like you were last summer
      # You’re being fooled again
      # Like you were last year

    24. Red Squirrel says:

      GP services in England are heading for extinction. More GPs than ever are leaving due to unsafe workloads and falling investment. It’s on a knife-edge.

      No doctor can look at that and still think we’re better together.

    25. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Rev is that graph a leaflet for BT,is that not a issue for the Electorial Commission?anyone know.

    26. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Calgacus

      and so is my spell fukin checker!

    27. Itsagoinwrang says:

      Comments criticising the accuracy of the report on their FB page are being removed.

    28. No no no...yes says:

      They have lost the plot completely,and the lies are getting bigger and bigger.
      The irony of this one is in the aims of the Academy of Medical Sciences as quoted by the Rev:

      “We seek to capitalise on our independence and ability to connect stakeholders..”

      So it’s okay for them to talk about independence,but not Scotland.

      BT never seem to do any research. Their donors must have money to burn, as they will not get a return on their investment.

    29. bookie from hell says:

      new defence secretary–Michael Fallon

      Between 2002 and 2004, Mr Fallon regularly claimed £1,255 per month in capital repayments and interest, rather than the £700-£800 for the interest component alone.

      After his error was noticed by staff in the Commons fees office in September 2004, he said: “Why has no one brought this to my attention before?”

      bfh–you can never use that excuse if on benefits

    30. Dcanmore says:

      Better Together are now casting their net far and wide to try and grasp at straws. The sign of a failing campaign. This is probably their response to the publicity that Dr Whiteford has recently received.

    31. Gordon Hay says:

      @ Rev. Stuart Campbell

      DOESN’T ANYONE EVER BLAH BLAH ETC

      https://twitter.com/GordonHay404/status/487961992624611328

      I just assumed you were too busy to notice this three days ago.

    32. Muscleguy says:

      One of my lecturers in Physiology back in NZ told us the story of how he was invited to speak at an international conference and they booked his tickets (you could do that in the dim, distant past). Normally he didn’t fly as Dr because of the confusion, him being a PhD but the conference had done so. Half way through the flight ‘could Dr … please come to the first class cabin’. Thinking he had scored a mid flight upgrade off he went. An elderly woman was in medical difficulty.

      While he was still returning to his seat in cattle class the tanoy announced ‘could a real doctor please come to the first class cabin’.

      Another of our lecturers who was MD drove an MG convertible and never locked it when parked at home. This was when the drug addicts ransacked it looking for pharmaceuticals they didn’t cause any damage getting in.

      Having the title of Dr is useful when used advisedly. I am not in the phone book as Dr but the bank knows me as Dr.

      I am dimly aware of the College of Medical Sciences as a Biomedical scientist but have never been even slightly tempted to join. Far too mercantilist money grubbing for me. Not exactly disreputable as not for our sort there.

    33. heedtracker says:

      Cuts both ways, my Slovene girlfriend Prof Tomkins is very busy calling everyone voting for Scottish independence liars etc
      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public?activity-stream=comments

      “While talking about it, how much do the Scottish taxpayers pay the SNP for their spreading of LIES and deliberate misinformation and for causing a general disgrace to Scotland in the international community?”

      Ouchee!

    34. Dcanmore says:

      What we see again is the sort of faux polling by the dark forces of the union that is not designed to reflect opinion, it’s designed to change it. If that is the case, and I think it is, then YES are going to win because BT are getting more and more defensive and reactionary. Kind of makes you wonder what the final week of theca campaign will entail.

    35. Further verifies that the BT Logic is subject to “Rendition and Torture”.

      Who wants to clean a tory moat or build and paint a duck house (on zero hours contract?) when Julie Webster and her wee weans wait for ATOS to re-instate their right to eat.?

      While our local MP claims £1,000 per month in Mortgage Interest for her second home?

      Lest we forget – Brown and Darling instigated Privatisation into the NHS, Inserted ATOS to combat benefit fraud and started Foodbanks – after -they wrecked the economy.

      “Freedom`s just another word for nothing left to lose”.

    36. JLT says:

      I would love for someone to sit down with Darling and go through each of their posters one by one. The blinking would be on an epic scale…

    37. Tattie-bogle says:

      G H Graham
      Sir you offend knuckle draggers

    38. Clootie says:

      They lie so well and so often.

      I often wonder how many of these polling exercises they do before they achieve some data with a figure that can be manipulated into a headline.

      It is a frustrating form of debate. They make up a story based on dodgy data and then Independence sites have to prove them false.

      It would be nice if even one “professional journalist” asked some basic questions.

      This is the same team promising more powers.

      Once again the internet undermines a BT plan dependent on a compliant media.

    39. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      ‘I just assumed you were too busy to notice this three days ago.”

      I tweeted it several times yesterday. But it’s always surprising how many people don’t see stuff that’s on Twitter and Facebook.

    40. seanair says:

      bugsbunny
      I hope there is no violence at the march, but the sheer nastiness of some of the marchers, no doubt including some from NI, will be a shock to many people who happen to see or hear of the march. Apart from the Labour for Indy folk, i hope many normally Labour voters will be ashamed of their OO NO compatriots and have some second thoughts about how they vote in the referendum.
      Jim Murphy and his ermine-seeking pals trying to distance themselves from the OO must be the last word in hypocrisy.

    41. pete the camera says:

      Not that kind of Doctor theirs a lot of them about

      A few years ago a neighbour collapsed in the street anouther neighbour that had been bragging about being a doctor was summoned with a chap on the door to answer with “I am not that kind of doctor” good thing tio come of it is he does not bragg about his doctorate now

    42. No no no...yes says:

      The president of the Academy of Medical Sciences is a co-signatory of an open letter about funding post independence:

      http://www.acmedsci.ac.uk/more/news/risks-to-academic-research-if-scotland-leaves-the-uk/

      It is very poor piece of writing and pure scaremongering,and it reads like it was written by the BT propoganda Department (Medical Dept),rather than the presidents of esteemed organisations.

    43. schrodingers cat says:

      did we get the viewing stats for june yet rev?

    44. Gordon Hay says:

      @Rev. Stuart Campbell

      It’s reaching a wider audience now, and that’s all that really matters.

    45. Jay says:

      Worst thing is they will still win the referendum it’s a real shame!

    46. Murray McCallum says:

      I guess this is their pathetic attempt to counter Dr Philippa Whitford’s hard-hitting speech as recorded in the Daily Record.

    47. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @Bugger (the Panda) says:
      @Calgacus
      the register is a bit of an ironic site.

      I normally like The Register’s take on things, but the piece on .scot made me feel like I felt when I realised that “Have I got News for You”, Private Eye etc. are mockers of the British Establishment only as long as the you don’t get somebody (e.g. Scotland) deciding to do something serious about the unfairness.

    48. cearc says:

      Muscleguy (Dr. of wee things),

      ‘Having the title of Dr is useful when used advisedly’

      An archeologist that I knew, on hearing that a GP had refused to see a sick infant one day, stormed into the surgery with said child and mother, stating, ‘I am Dr. xxx and i think it is disgusting etc..’ Infant was seen immediately and sent to hospital.

      Conversely, a friend of mine, who was a medical doctor, used to tell people he was an accountant. It avoided a lot of conversations about ingrown toenails but he did you use DR. on his passport from a sense of social responsibility.

    49. hetty says:

      Interesting to hear that the msm have not picked this up. It could be that they know it is a giant porky and therefore would look silly printing it, and that in fact it would be so damn blatant a lie it would quickly be refuted and that they couldn’t hide, because people are interested in what the people in professions, such as Doctors, have to say. Health and the NHS is a BIG subject for the referendum, wouldn’t want the truth to come out regards the consequences of a no vote would we, so better ignore even this kind of lie.

    50. Doug says:

      I must be that elusive 7%

      I can say, with certainty, that 93% is not representative. There is a certain “middle class”/conservative streak, however, that means many are instinctively ‘no’.

    51. Erchie says:

      @Dalhacus/BtP

      The Register *used* just to be an ironic site. It used to be compulsive reading. Under Lewis Page’s stewardship it is a right-wing, anti-science blog that frequently denigrate Scots.

      Often they will put posts out but only allow comments on the forum, not on the article, so it can’t be challenged.

      Have up with it months ago

    52. CageyBee says:

      I asked a question re sample size and it was removed within seconds. debating with them does not seem possible. I know this isn’t news but that doesn’t mean it is invalid to keep trying to debate

    53. kalmar says:

      heedtracker: that’s the first time I’ve seen, anywhere, an attempt at rational debate in support of no, backed up with sources etc.
      Took a Slovene to do it.

    54. Craig P says:

      This is the most gallus lie I’ve heard since the MSM reported there were only 100 cod left in the North Sea (which turned out to be wrong by a factor of over 4 million).

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/9546004/Just-100-cod-left-in-North-Sea.html

    55. handclapping says:

      Right then, they’ve given us the clue that No for the NHS is a loser for them, so I’m off to work up a spiel to bring up with 3s, 4s and 5s about how No will lead to the death of our NHS.

    56. SquareHaggis says:

      @Bugsbunny

      Borrowed Time…

    57. Robert Peffers says:

      On my morning walk with the wee dog I was harangued once more by a local weel kent Better Together guy. I usually just quietly attempt to get a word in edgewise to challange his often obvious lies.

      However, this morning, (as I was desparate for a pee), instead of the usual patiend approach I said. “I’ve got an appointment so I’ll answer you just one question then I’m off”.

      He chose, “When are the SNP going to tell us all what currency an independent Scotland will use”.

      I said, (shot in the dark), “2002, and they told you it would be the pound”, and I walked off.

      A couple walked on with me and asked was my answer true. I told them I had no idea what year the SNP first said the pound would continue as Scottish currency but that the Better Together lot knew full well Scotland would be using the pound, with or without Better Together’s permission, with or without a currency union and that no one could stop the use of the pound.

      The couple agreed that Better Together were liars and I found it more rewarding to answer their many questions than argue with the lying numptie.

      What’s the point of attempting to argue with liars? They won’t change their mind because they already know the truth , and will just continue their lies and, if caught out, just tell more lies. Better by far to expose them in one lie and then concentrate on those who really do want the truth.

    58. JLT says:

      Craig P says:

      This is the most gallus lie I’ve heard since the MSM reported there were only 100 cod left in the North Sea (which turned out to be wrong by a factor of over 4 million).

      Actually, for me, it when Darling told us that the oil would run out by 2017. That was a belter!

    59. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      All the above

      I haven’t been on the Register for at least two years.

      So, it has bounced to the right.

      I used to like Order-Order about 5 or so years ago but, it is infested with fleck spittled zoomers now.

      It is like the MSM, I just don’t have any need for them nowadays.

      I am proud to say that I have been banned by the Daily Telegraph; their loss.

    60. Morag says:

      I’m a “veterinary scientist” in the sort of bracket that organisation might encompass, and if I’ve ever heard of it the information doesn’t seem to have stuck in my memory. Looks like a bunch of posers to me.

      On the subject of the “Dr.” title. One day when I was a student at Glasgow Uni I couldn’t find the key to my locker in the chemistry building. I went to the porter to ask if he had some way of getting me access to the locker. He said “you’ll need to get a note from your doctor.”

      I stared at him for a full 30 seconds before I translated that as “you need to provide me with documentary evidence from your class lecturer to show that’s really your locker you’re asking me to burgle for you.”

      He was quite right of course. A PhD is a proper doctor, a medical doctor only has the title as a courtesy.

      (I picked the lock with a kirbie-grip.)

    61. Albaman says:

      Rev,
      Use your new contacts at S.T.V. And ask them to use the findings in their news , otherwise you’ll contact the B.B.C. With the story. ( and they would use it ?, who am I kidding!!)

    62. ian foulds says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “15 July, 2014 at 10:32 am

      ‘I just assumed you were too busy to notice this three days ago.’

      I tweeted it several times yesterday. But it’s always surprising how many people don’t see stuff that’s on Twitter and Facebook.”

      Rev – Can’t speak for everybody but, I am afraid Twitter and Facebook are two ‘no-go’ areas for this neanderthal

    63. ronnie anderson says:

      Bbc Radio Scotland 11.00am news Michiel Gove & Michiel Fallow are both Scots, well I never Scots in ah Tory Gov,so thats what we can expect now from the Beep when they comment on Politicions ,their country of birth,what the FK has that to do with being Sacked (Gove) & Promoted (Fallon )certainly running out of BT support material.

    64. G H Graham says:

      The one major problem with Twitter & Facebook is that they are rolling news pages.

      Thus, if you are too busy say, twiddling with potentiometers, valves & transistors at the back of the telly trying to get a colour picture of the Test Card, you miss much of what has been broadcast on the web.

      Just saying.

    65. And the ‘fellows’ aren’t all doctors in the sense this poster conveys. I’m not sure if many (any?) listen to a patient through the business end of a stethoscope. You can see a list of the Fellows in Scotland here:

      https://archive.today/CpPmw Ordinary Fellows | Academy of Medical Sciences

      For whatever reason this poll was conducted, it ain’t what this poster proclaims. In the tradition of ‘Would I Lie to You’, it is in fact, a lie.

    66. galamcennalath says:

      Why does Project Fear continue? Why the relentless barrage of lies and deceit?

      Two possibilities, I see:

      That’s all they can do. There is no case for the Union. They have no other card to play. Desperation could be a sign they believe they are losing.

      Or

      They have polling evidence that their tactics work and they are managing to retain enough people scared not to vote No. That is a more worrying scenario! I would hate to believe lies and deceit are a successful tactic.

    67. No no no...yes says:

      @Ian foulds
      Twitter and facebook- I don’t have accounts either but if you click on the links on Wings home page there is enough info to keep up to date

    68. Proud Cybernat says:

      I refuse to join Facebook (their copyright policy) and Twitter would just bring information overload. But each to their own.

      BTW, when do you think BT-Project Fear-No Thanks (or whatever they call themselves these days) will realise that fabricating out-and-out lies is not the best policy in the Information Age, where their deceit can be minutely dissected, sliced and diced and shown for the utter bullflop it usually is and the actual truth of the matter spread right across the country in a matter of seconds?

      Are they really really that thick?

    69. Robert Kerr says:

      Totally agree with Dr. Morag.

      I used to pose the question “What’s your doctorate in?”

      Gave up years ago!.

      Note that A. Merkel has a doctorate! How many in Westminster?

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @pete the camera says: 15 July, 2014 at 10:38 am:

      “Not that kind of Doctor there’s a lot of them about”

      Indeed, including the Right Hon Dr Gordon Brown.
      This from his biography : –

      “A doctoral graduate of the University of Edinburgh, Brown spent his early career working as both a lecturer at a further education college and a television journalist”.

    71. chalks says:

      Response from Alasdair Morris at Law Society:

      From: President [at] lawscot [dot] org [dot] uk
      To:
      Subject: FW: Scottish Independence – FAO Alisdair Morris
      Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 09:30:19 +0000
      Dear Mr ,

      Thank you for your email about our new discussion paper on Scotland’s constitutional future. It is always good to get feedback and I am grateful to you for taking the time to get in touch.

      As part of our work ahead of the referendum, we carefully considered the proposals in the Scottish Government’s White Paper, which included detailed plans on tax within the finance and economy section. In our paper, we recognise that creating a new tax regime in the context of independence could provide an opportunity for a simple and creative system. However, we need to realise that it could take years to properly set up a tax system for Scotland. That is why we believe transitional arrangements would be needed to provide tax payer certainty. That is why we ask for more information on those arrangements as we do not believe sufficient information has yet been provided.

      Similarly, on EU membership, we know the issue of Scottish independence presents the EU with unchartered territory. We have stated our belief that politics will be as important as the formal legal position. We have simply made the point that we cannot take for granted that any negotiations would be concluded within the Scottish Government’s 18 month timeframe. As such, we believe there is a need for clear and detailed contingency plans in the event that such negotiations for Scotland’s membership of the EU were not completed in time.

      I hope this information is helpful. Again, thank you for contacting us.

      With best wishes

      Alistair Morris

      Laraine Bathgate
      Executive Assistant to Chief Executive and Office Bearers
      The Law Society of Scotland
      DD: 0131 476 8157
      Extn : 257

    72. thegooseking says:

      Since NHS Scotland is funded and overseen by Holyrood anyway, independence would make absolutely no difference to Scottish health issues. Which really raises the question: Even if this wasn’t misleading, why would we care what doctors think?

      Not only are Better Together lying, but they’re lying in order to construct some lame appeal to authority, on the premise that doctors are known for being quite smart, ignoring the relevance of their actual area of expertise. Come on, if you’re going to lie, you can do better than that.

    73. heedtracker says:

      Scotish health care is a deal breaker I find when I do my own canvassing which I only really do online as I’m too annoying apparently. But on several occasions so far, the big motivation to change from extreme No to relieved Yes is our health service. It’s like no matter how much money people earn, they will not stand by and watch one of life’s most important safety nets turned into a business. At least three voters in the US I cc WoS, newsnet sites to all time go into shock and awe at the costs of health care in a privatised Con/Dem world, USA style. It’s all seems fine if your employers pays your health insurance but if there is any problem or you retire with not quite enough, American’s lose everything to pay for serious treatments.

      All of which probably explains why the BBC via Eleanor Bradford and Jacky Bailey monster Scottish health care so hard but BetterTogether tend to dodge away from it. Double edge UKOK swords.

    74. Douglas says:

      Went to see my GP a few weeks ago. His first words after sitting me down “so do you think we’ll win?” My eyebrows raised in surprise. He nodded at the YES badge I had forgotten I was wearing.

      Turns out he’s certain we will from the constant casual conversation on the topid from every other encounter at work.

    75. Cyberniall says:

      We need to get an article together that covers all the BT poster lies so that, with one click, No and Undecided voters can understand how they are being fed misinformation.

      Does anyone know if such a thing already exists?

    76. Roll_On_2014 says:

      schrodingers cat: 10:43 am

      did we get the viewing stats for june yet rev?

      Aye sc Stu gave them on his twitter account recently.

      9th July for previous 30 days.

    77. Wings Over Reality says:

      It’s a bit like that daft graphic the Yes campaign are touting about mock referendums in schools and unis, which just show the handful where the Yes vote won.

      It’s almost as if both sides are campaigning. It’s healthier just to shrug it off.

    78. sausage fingered luddite says:

      Bugger (the Panda) at 11.04am
      “I haven’t been on the register for at least two years”
      You could’ve worded that a bit better..

    79. fakename says:

      Sort of o/t

      I like to pop up on the BT Facebook page and pose as an undecided by asking apparently naive questions of their posts, like this one. The answer to most of my naive questions is actually read Wings, but I never link to it so as not to unmask myself. Worthwhile, or waste of time?

    80. No no no...yes says:

      BT- State sponsored propganda delivered by the MSM and believed by fewer and fewer everyday.

      Wings-Readership and contributors increasing everyday. We are a vast resource that carries out supportive research to challenge the status quo. It’s no wonder that this is the go to site for information, no media outlet has this level of resource at its disposal.

      The polls are not to be trusted, they have no precedent to base their filters and analysis on, its all guesswork.

      BT never disclose any of their own canvassing,they just make up spurious surveys of non-entities to distract and deceive. THERE IS NO CASE FOR THE UNION or we would have heard it by now.

    81. Robert Peffers says:

      @chalks says: 15 July, 2014 at 11:26 am:
      “Response from Alasdair Morris at Law Society:”

      Thank you for that, chalks. It is quite telling that they concentrate upon their own, percieved, doubts about the YES campaign. Not a single legal doubt about the actual Westminster set-up. For example the fact Westminster is the de facto Parliament of England. That Westminster has changed the Union from one of a bipartite Kingdom to one of four countries with England in charge.

      I think I may not be alone in thinking the Scottish Legal profession are ("Tractor" - Ed)s to their own legal system. A system based upon the fact we Scots are legally sovereign.

      Strange because, if Scotland’s independent legal system is taken from us, as has been our legal position as an equally sovereign Kingdom and our relegation to one of three subservient countries under the de facto Parliament of England at Westminster, then the Scottish Legally quallified members of The Scottish Law Society will be excluded from practicing in England, Wales and N. Ireland.

      Seems Turkeys may indeed be voting for Christmas.

    82. heedtracker says:

      Uh oh, my Slovene BetterTogether girlfriend’s having another tantrum. Never understood why Prof Jezereena doesn’t just post something in his native Slovene cum East Anglian tongue.

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

      http://www.adamtomkins.net/adamtomkins.html

    83. a2 says:

      you want to have a quick look through the member list , an interesting number of establishment figures.

      Not only that , it says 93% of respondents, without saying how many responded.

    84. steveasaneilean says:

      There are currently nearly 5000 GPs in Scotland and a similar number of hospital-based doctors.
      Some will be voting No and some will be voting Yes. I reckon it will be like the population in general – a 50/50ish split. Figures of 93%, whether one way or the other, are way off the mark and I say that as someone with deep inside knowledge.
      These academic doctors are genuinely worried about what will happent o the funding on which many of them depend so I am not surprised most them are voting No. But 106 out of 10,000 – that’s 1% of the possible electorate and therefore not really an accurate representation of anything.
      Ignore it.

    85. Morag says:

      Wings over Reality is doubtless going to provide us with the details of the numerous school and university mock referendums that have produced majorities for No. With dates, of course.

    86. sausage fingered luddite says:

      Over at huffpost ex labour cabinet minister Charles Clarke is having a pop at “red” Ed miliband. He reckons tories will win majority in 2015 and that kinnock was a better leader than Ed.
      Mind you he also thinks labour would be better with someone called Alistair in place of Balls…

    87. gordoz says:

      O/T – From Revs twitter feed.

      Man I THINK this is a riot. B/T explaining things as clear as they can.

      //t.co/UnVsxUEoBL

    88. chalks says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Pointed out to them it was up to Westminster to clarify the EU situation as they are the sovereign government….I’m now going to ask him if he agrees that Scotland was extinguished in the Act of Union….

    89. gordoz says:

      O/T – From Revs twitter feed.

      Man I THINK this is a riot. B/T explaining things as clear as they can.

      (Sorry got the address wrong / THINK this is right!)

      https://t.co/UnVsxUEoBL

    90. Anne says:

      any academics who are worried about funding should read this report – it is very reassuring

      http://www.royalsoced.org.uk/cms/files/events/reports/2013-2014/Discussion-Research-Funding-Michael-Russell.pdf

      for me the risk of leaving the EU in the wake of a No vote is a much more serious concern

    91. Luigi says:

      Are they really really that thick?

      No, well not all of them. But they are, however, becoming really desperate and probably feel strongly that they should be doing something to save the union before the sun that was never supposed to set, finally goes down. They must do something, even if it is daft!

    92. Robert Peffers says:

      @Wings Over Reality says: 15 July, 2014 at 11:48 am:

      “Which just show the handful where the Yes vote won”.

      Oh! Look! Yet another Better Together claim without a single statistical fact to back it up.

      You have got statistics as proof of your claim, haven’t you, “Wings over Reality”?

    93. taysideterrier says:

      I noticed this on the BT farcebook page last night and immediately started posting links to allyson pollocks speech on what they are doing to the NHS in England http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz5dl9fhj7o

      How long will it take after a NO vote for the “markets” to get their hands on our NHS! I believe it was Labour (or “Scottish” Labour!) that had started Scotland down this route and it was the SNP that reversed it.

      We really need a YES vote and put our NHS (and other public services) under the protection of a written constitution.

    94. HandandShrimp says:

      Wings over Reality

      No not really. Obviously both sides will discuss debates and straw polls where they feel they have done well but this is a manufactured piece of deliberately misleading nonsense.

      A handful of doctors aligned to a London based lobby group that pushes the private sector in the NHS is not even close to representing what doctors in Scotland think.

    95. Roll_On_2014 says:

      In my opinion doctors in England are little more than accountants. Were they buy and sell health care through their practices, usually to a minimum cost rather than clinical excellence.

      To reinforce this, doctors are also running commissions that oversee a growing swathe of areas across the NHS.

      In an earlier age doctors did what they were supposed to do, ie. look after the health of their patients. Today they are merely accountants and managers.

      Do Scots really want this system replicated across their health system?

    96. Robert Peffers says:

      @HandandShrimp says: 15 July, 2014 at 12:17 pm:

      “A handful of doctors aligned to a London based lobby group that pushes the private sector in the NHS is not even close to representing what doctors in Scotland think.”,

      Not to mention that they are almost all NOT Medically or Surgically qualified Doctors.

      Here’s a news item I found. I wonder if these, (cough!), “Doctors”, are included in the Better Together statistics?

      “13 Jun 2014. The University of Glasgow awarded 14 Honorary Doctorate Degrees, including honouring eight Scottish Commonwealth Games gold medal winners for their services to sport”.
      Aye!
      Richt!

    97. heedtracker says:

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/15/labour-new-deal-for-england-big-reform-not-big-spending

      More weirdness from Labour in England/Britain. All the usual WTF that makes jola and the Flipper’s BetterTogether Labour in Scotland look so out of touch with the future of Scotland. Check out labour in England’s New Deal for England at their web site http://www.yourbritain.org.uk

      Rule Britannia, with Scotland’s oil and gas, Trident ready to fire in Argylle etc

    98. G H Graham says:

      Did anyone ever figure out who the Slovenian troll was that used to write miles of shite on The Herald?

      Since I don’t read their pages, I’m out of the loop.

    99. jon esquierdo says:

      Unfortunately the hard of learning walking dead take this on board . There lies the problem

    100. heedtracker says:

      http://www.yourbritain.org.uk/agenda-2015/policy-commissions/britain-s-global-role-policy-commission/britain-s-global-role-policy-consultation is actually a tragedy of delusions. Iraq is now a failed state, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, all got Labour’s teamGB global role. Blair is a war criminal, the whole Westminster freak show went in with him and Crash, all of which is not mention on yourbritain.org.

    101. schrodingers cat says:

      @BtP
      I am proud to say that I have been banned by the Daily Telegraph;

      snigger, i.ve been banned from the telegraph 6 times and 12 times from cif

    102. Red Road Flats?!?!?! says:

      A quick look at this organisation’s press release on the referendum, “Scotland: Research and the UK Academies”, is a bit of a giveaway: ‘separation of Scotland form the UK’ – never independence and apparently towed into the mid-Atlantic, ‘Many people involved in research in Scotland are concerned about this issue but some appear to feel inhibited in expressing their views.’ – like the ones who write open letters to newspapers, ‘If it turns out that an independent Scotland has to form its own science and research budget, maintaining these levels of research spending would cost the Scottish tax payer significantly more.’ No it wouldn’t – the difference is about £7m pa, easily saved from the defence budget and the SG proposes to maintain the research councils. And the inevitable ‘Moreover, if Scotland is separated from the rest of the UK, the strong links and collaborations which exist in the current open system would be put at risk’, despite the fundamental internationally collaborative nature of scientific research and funding, something that anyone who has ever donned a white coat will be familiar with.

      All in all, standard scare tactics from a unionist lobby group and in no sense representative of anyone’s opinion bar their own.

    103. schrodingers cat says:

      4.5 million hits from 266,000 users, wow

    104. X_Sticks says:

      @Cyberniall

      Wee Ginger Dug has something close:

      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/labours-six-unanswered-questions/

      I think Rev Stu’s wee blue book may also be what you are looking for. I believe it’s imminent.

    105. heedtracker says:

      G H Graham. First up google search and here’s Prof Jezereena in action a year ago with BBC actually not giving a no voter free reign, although old Sweaty Brewer’s currently on sabbatical, for reasons known only to himself.

      Jezereena/Aleisbadas gets going about 4 minutes in

      youtube.com/watch?v=9k3NjUF118s

      With his blog too which is full of empty vote no garbage, a legend in his own lecture theatre

      http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/author/conlawforum/

    106. HandandShrimp says:

      G H

      Heedtracker thinks Albie is Prof Tomkins

      I’m not so sure. If it were to be so the deception is so outrageous as to be career limiting. I am not sure Tomkins would be that daft.

      That said it is very difficult to determine why a Slovene would write screeds and screeds of virulently anti-Scottish independence posts if they had no horse in the race. However, the posts are so mind numbingly boring, repetitive and often irrelevant that I am not sure many read them. I certainly rarely get past the first paragraph before my brain shuts down in self defence.

      The reason I am not sure that Albie is British is because they also seem to have a downer on the UK and thinks we should be booted out the EU (of course Tomkins may be a Euro-sceptic) 🙂

    107. G H Graham says:

      Heedtracker,

      Thanks, I just took at look at the blog but it took no more than scanning a few paragraphs to conclude that the man (or woman) is probably receiving poorly administered psychiatric treatment.

    108. schrodingers cat says:

      prof tompkin got set up and made to look like a Yes supporter in the Scotland Yet video

      he will be spitting feathers, lol

    109. Peter says:

      Offly topical. But if anybody wants to see what real cyber-abuse is like then read the comments on the re-shuffle of Michael Gove on Cif. Billionaire plagiarists being told they smell just doesn’t compare.

    110. Mat says:

      O/T – Was in St Andrews last night for Scotland Yet screening. Really enjoyed it, well made, good tempo, uplifting. And Rev. Stu, Dick Gaughan, Karine Polwart to boot, all good stuff, recommend it highly.

      Not sure, however, how Adam Tomkins will feel when he sees it. They managed to make him look like a Yesser. Chapeau.

    111. Jim Marshall says:

      My daughter is a GP. She will vote YES.

    112. wingman 2020 says:

      O/T
      “Documents leaked by Edward Snowden reveal programs to track targets, impersonate spammers and manipulate online statistics

      From the guardian today

      But of course they wouldn’t be used in Independence polls! Right?

    113. schrodingers cat says:

      @mat
      was in st andrews too last night

      lol

    114. Grant says:

      The BT lies keep coming and the man on the street swallows them.

    115. HandandShrimp says:

      Peter

      There is a huge amount of really nasty abuse on line. The exchanges between the Yes and No camps have been pretty mellow by comparison to the racist, sexist, pretty much anythingist abuse one can see on Twitter, Yahoo and Facebook. That poor lad that died of cancer after raising millions for charity took dog’s abuse for “not looking ill enough” There are a lot of sick nasty sods out there.

    116. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Schroedingers Cat

      I just cannae be ersed to change my profile and n de p.

      That game is not worth the candle.

    117. HandandShrimp says:

      SC

      You rascal, I thought it was quite hard to get banned from the Groaniard. I was put on moderation after a small misunderstanding over a light hearted comment in one of the gender or Bidisha threads (I forget which). However we have come to an arrangement…I steer clear of those threads. 🙂

    118. crisiscult says:

      @G H Graham

      I seem to recall a poster on one of the better together facebook pages called Camilla someone (or Carmilla) who wrote in a similar style. I assume just an employee of Better Together. Writing style to me just shows a person with academic interest in Slovenia, but personal issue with the SNP and Alex Salmond (ie they probably know each other). Lots of time for research and posting, but lack of a framework of understanding some subjects, suggesting they are an academic. Read a few posts on Herald and Better Together pages and found them a bit hysterical so gave up.

    119. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry I haven’t read all the posts yet but will will do, promise. 😉 I have however been rather naughty 😉 again. 😛 I’ve just tweeted BBC, STV, Channel 4, Channel 5, Sky, R.T and Al Jazeera. and asked if they were going to investigate this. 😛

    120. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      wow, west derby labour council(area in liverpool i think) are advertising for volunteers to travel to scotland this weekend and talk us into voting no. expenses will be paid.

    121. Marian says:

      Look at what GCHQ have been up to.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-28306819

      You can bet your bottom dollar that they are doing all of this and more to thwart independence.

    122. heedtracker says:

      @ G H Graham, it’s ego versus reality for Professor Jezereena. He’s furious that he’s excluded from Scots.gov constitutional affairs but clearly he only wants to take it all down. Lack of planning really. If he was as clever as he thinks he is, he would have stayed off CIF or joined In as himself with all the academic stuff he knows and kept it civil.

      But and so, his Aliebadas ridiculous “in my country Slovenia, we call beer beero” stuff has taken him out of it completely, well the twerps in Pacific Quay will use him but he’ll be long forgotten after independence.

      In my country Scotland, we have ancient saying, we’re nae a feels.

    123. Rev Stuart Campbell –

      A total stranger at the bus-stop told me that the ConDems are currently processing legislation that will allow Health Professionals to run and own the hospitals they work within?

      A deal similar to the John Lewis partnership model.

      Is this story true?

    124. Helena Brown says:

      Marian, That was my first thought also. Terrorism be damned, money and losing it more like.

    125. Helena Brown says:

      Findlay Farquaharson, yes, I was lurking on Wings Twitter and saw that also, now what is that about it all being for the Scots to decide?

    126. Cuilean says:

      My doctor and actually, my retired doctor and his wife, also a doctor are all voting YES. Doctors more than anyone see the NHS steady erosion into USA big business style “care”. Every single doctor in Scotland should be voting YES.

    127. gerry parker says:

      @ Grant at 1:13
      “The BT lies keep coming and the man on the street swallows them.”

      Then we tell that man in the street the truth about it all.

      Then we win.

      🙂

    128. schrodingers cat says:

      @HandandShrimp says:

      SC

      You rascal, I thought it was quite hard to get banned from the Groaniard.

      um, i.ve been banned twice this morning, creating new face book accounts is very simple, takes les than 60 secs
      then log in as a new user

    129. heedtracker says:

      @ wingman 2020, that Guardian thing didn’t need leak did it? •

      UNDERPASS to “change outcome of online polls”. is probably the only tool that could be used to change voters minds but look at all the vote no winning yougov polls trumpeted for ever and a day by BBC etc Even the online insults at Rowling via twitter could be from anyone anywhere and takes 2 minutes to set up. The big one the spooks have is denial of service and they’ve already had a trials of that one on WoS. It will never be forgotten teamGB spooks.

    130. HandandShrimp says:

      I see the Beeb has comments on the new .scot domain

      One would not have thought it would be desperately controversial as a greater range of domains has been in the offing for ages but I misunderestimated the ire of the Britnats. People like Andy and Hew and Cry are spitting tacks….bit weird really.

    131. David Stevenson says:

      I could be mistaken, but I think there was a front page with screaming headlines on this “Doctor” story in the Mail or Excess last Saturday. I saw the front page in one of the Perspex boxes at the local garage when pumping up tyres. Could have been another pile of garbage along the same lines of course.

    132. Jamie Arriere says:

      I had a look at the membership of the AMS – a startling array of talent with 9 Sirs, a Lord, a Dame, as many OBEs/CBEs as you’d find at happy hour at the Carlton Club…oh and even Sir Kenneth Calman.

      Astonished that they’re voting no 😉

    133. heedtracker says:

      Hi HandandShrimp, has Professor Tomkins CIF career made any difference to the vote, is all that matters. More on the Glasgow. Herald maybe as it’s actually read in Gladgow.
      I think someone asked him Graun CIF today why a Slovene like her/him so interested in Scotland, is not more focused on hotter political spots not that far from Slovenia, but then he’s come after WoS now, eek.

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2014/jul/14/whether-scotland-votes-yes-or-no-london-wins#comment-38185822

      How dare you Rev.

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      Findlay Farquaharson says: 15 July, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      “wow, west derby labour council(area in Liverpool I think) are advertising for volunteers to travel to Scotland this weekend and talk us into voting no. expenses will be paid.”

      Quite obviously these numpties haven’t a clue as to the Scottish natural psyche and conter reaction.

      The last thing to convince even a soft YES voter to vote NO is a visit from a strange Liverpudlian on their doorstep telling them they should vote NO.

      Frankly, I’d love to be a fly on that particular door architrave.

    135. John H. says:

      wingman 2020 1.12pm
      “But of course they wouldn’t be used in Independence polls! Right?”

      I just pray that they can’t be used in the referendum itself.If they can, I’m sure they will.

    136. schrodingers cat says:

      “wow, west derby labour council(area in Liverpool I think) are advertising for volunteers to travel to Scotland this weekend and talk us into voting no. expenses will be paid

      can we all apply?
      🙂

    137. desimond says:

      O/T Reshuffle :

      Nicky Morgan will add responsibility for equalities to her previous brief as minister for women, but business and education minister Nick Boles will be responsible for implementing same sex marriage legislation, which Mrs Morgan voted against on the basis of her Christianity.

      AREN’T MPs meant to represent the thought of THEIR constituents, what’s her own personal Christian beliefs got to do with voting on anything?

      Should I assume the MP Priority order is actually:

      (ex)Penses – Party – Personal – People

    138. schrodingers cat says:

      o/t
      i reserved wos.scot last year amongst many others
      including bettertogether.scot

      i think all of the laour ones were reserved also

    139. HandandShrimp says:

      Heedtracker

      I challenged Albie ages ago to explain exactly why an independent Scotland was such an anathema given that it would have no impact on and no ongoing interest to him/her.

      I did not get a reply and I told him/her I was not interested in their opinion, that they had no horse in this race and their view was a matter of utter indifference to me. Albie said I was very arrogant. A badge I wear with considerable pride in relation to that dissembling obsessive. 🙂

      I am not aware of anyone who has obtained a coherent answer to why so many hours have been spent by someone in Slovenia campaigning against Scottish independence.

      So I would agree, a sock puppet for Better Together or someone with “issues”.

    140. Lesley-Anne says:

      Findlay Farquaharson says:

      wow, west derby labour council(area in liverpool i think) are advertising for volunteers to travel to scotland this weekend and talk us into voting no. expenses will be paid.

      Oh please, please, please let them come to my door cause I have one or two wee questions for them 😉 like:

      Q1 Why should I vote NO?

      Q2 Who is going to pay for my medical insurance?

      Q3 Why should I live in a country with WMD’s no more than 30 miles from my country’s largest city?

      Q4 How’d they feel living 30 miles from a huge WMD dump?

      Q5 Why should my country’s education system be ripped up and joined into the English education system?

      Q6 Why should I vot NO to prolong the agony of the bedroom tax on the poor?

      Q7 Do they agree with the idea of the bedroom tax?

      Q8 Why should I vote NO to prolong the agony of Food banks in Scotland?

      Q9 Do they believe it is right an oil rich country like Scotland should have 1,000’s of Food banks operating in it?

      Q10 Do they agree with the idea of needing food banks in 21st Century Scotland?

      Q11 Why in 21st Century Scotland are the disabled inflicted with the disgusting ATOS?

      Q12 Do they agree with ATOS?

      I think that will keep them going for starters. 😛

      Q8

    141. Andy-B says:

      Dear oh dear, flat out lies from the Better Together camp are becoming the norm, as you rightly point out Rev, people only read the headline, and seldom, dig deeper to check if its a lie or not. its surely a sign of desperation, from the no camp.

    142. Penderyn says:

      If these experts from the Academy of Medical Sciences are primarily working in Acedemia, then the chances are they will have PhDs, i.e. be doctors. The wording doesn’t say “GPs”, or “medical doctors”, so is – strictly speaking – not incorrect. However, the graphic in the background leads the reader to associate the statement to his/her local GP.

      More spin from Westminster.

    143. Martin says:

      He was in my year, I didn’t realise he was a yes man. Good for him. From my unscientific anecdotal evidence the nhs doctor split is similar to the population, but perhaps a shade more to yes.

    144. bookie from hell says:

      brilliant simple effective graphics message

      http://vimeo.com/95851640

    145. JimnArlene says:

      BT No Thanks UKOKs, lying? Surely not.

    146. heedtracker says:

      @ HandandShrimp, you are very arrogant, you’re voting YES. At the very least its great fun pulling the nasty buffoon’s strings from afar, afar being Aberdeen to Glasgow uni law dept, about 160 bettertogether Slovenian kilometres:D

    147. Andy-B says:

      O/T Rev, I do apologise.

      The IFS, Institute of Fiscal Studies, says 14.6 million people in the UK are in poverty, this doesn’t even include figures after massive welfare cuts, introduced in 2013, the IFS say the amount of people at the edge of sheer poverty must be much higher.

      This article is covered by Torcuil Crichton of the unionist Daily Record, Torcuil is an ardent unionist, so I’m pretty sure he won’t be to upset by this, after all his beloved Labour intend to cut even deeper.

      http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/one-four-britons-now-living-3861508

      Also, a senior Scots Tory, had to apologise last night, after signing a contract to lobby, MP’s on behalf of a Caribbean tax haven, his name, is Lord Blencathra,he sat in the House of Commons as David Maclean.

      Finally the BBC have been tracking employee’s e-mails, the excuse given is that they have a mole, leaking information and they want to track that person down, go on the mole.

      No link to either story source the DR.

    148. Auld Rock says:

      When I was a wee boy my dad chastised me for telling a very ‘TALL’ tale. He sat me down and told me about the wee boy in wilderness Canada who was forever calling out a warning ‘Wolf, Wolf’ when there was none. It got so everybody ignored him until one day he cried out ‘Wolf’, he was ignored but this time the ‘Wolf’ was real and it ate him. So ended the wee boy who cried ‘Wolf’. Pity ‘bt’ seem to have forgotten it, hey but who cares we know they are lying B’s.

      Auld Rock

    149. Morag says:

      Funny thing. Went out last night to a meeting in a neighbour’s house to begin organising a Women for Independence meeting in the village in September. To my surprise who else turns up but my across-the-back-fence neighbour. Not just mildly interested, but bearing a folder of useful articles printed out from the web, and a page-long list of indy web sites she reads every day. Including WoS. (She didn’t seem too keen on my offer of a “Proud Cybernat” badge though.)

      So if you’re reading this far down, hi Elsie.

    150. Lesley-Anne says:

      That’s a cracking video bookie. 🙂

      Surely not Andy… BBC tracking employee’s e-mails but that’s just not cricket. I mean where is the employer/employee trust gone when it comes down to the employer snooping on the employee and their e-mails? 🙂

      Whatever next BBC comes out against Scottish independence? 😛

    151. Gillie says:

      So much for Better Together – No Thanks grassroots campaign. They have to import Labour numpties from England just to make up the numbers.

      Time for some operatives from Cybernat Intelligence Agency (CIA) monitored BT-NT operations and see how they are doing on the ground.

    152. Nana Smith says:

      O/T

      I don’t know anyone who is battered from all these ‘blows’ to independence…

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/better-together-junckers-eu-comments-harm-yes-camp.1405434338

    153. Clootie says:

      @Angus Robertson
      Reshuffle Update: New job in Treasury for Tory MP Priti Patel who wants to slash Scottish spending. See @Daily_Record t.co/JmrF7tqWeK

    154. Ross says:

      Just in from delivering labour for Indy leaflets in a fairy affluent area. Saw one definite Yes voter in his car with Yes stickers. Chatted to one woman who was undecided, had a discussion on benefits of a Yes vote including NHS, no bedroom tax (which her daughter is affected by), no democratic deficit, wealth of oil left and the huge field on the west coast. Left her with an Aye Right leaflet. She seemed interested and wavering to Yes after our discussion.
      However met one old timer who recoiled when I told him I was delivering for the Yes campaign. “No chance” said he. When asked why not he replied “I’m old enough to know better”. He then walked away muttering something about Alex Salmond. Didn’t want a discussion. Didn’t want to be challenged. Sadly something I’ve noticed from the elderly.

    155. Luigi says:

      Ross,

      Approx 30% of the population will vote NO, no matter what. These people do not want to engage in debate, and they are extremely annoyed that others are debating and considering a YES vote. Those people are easy to identify (usually an irrational hatred of Alex Salmond gives the game away) and best left alone thereafter. So many others are willing to listen. We are winning!

    156. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Only 73% of those asked replied to the poll in question so a claim of 95% is already on shaky grounds. Not only that but even assuming that all had answered and were all MDs and all working in the NHS the question remains as to how they were selected as “top doctors.” At least it’s not the same kind of lie as someone being an ordinary mum but it does help remind us as to why they tried that con in the first place. Many of the top doctors will be either be working entirely outwith the NHS or have a significant sideline in consultation and private practice.

      Besides which as many fans of Doctor Who will be aware the “not that kind of Doctor” gag has been used on more than one occasion.

    157. Papadox says:

      O/T
      Sky news talking to Tony Blair: what a waste of space, a very evil viper.

    158. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm, if SKY are talking to the war criminal I wonder if an *ahem* anonymous phone call to our boys in blue would result in him being arrested *cough* live on air! 😛

    159. galamcennalath says:

      Ross says:
      “Didn’t want a discussion. Didn’t want to be challenged. Sadly something I’ve noticed from the elderly.”

      Had a thought for the elderly just now. While we haven’t even achieved our Yes win, far less started negotiations, all sorts of final outcomes are possible.

      Imagine the negotiations don’t go well and effectively Scotland just walks away with get-no-assets and take-no-liabilities. As has been discussed on Wings, pensions for those already retired are the responsibility of London, if no other arrangement is agreed. (Just like UK pensioners living in Spain). From then on newly retiring people in Scotland will be the responsibility of Edinburgh.

      Imagine further where any existing pensioners in Scotland taking Scottish citizenship become Scotland’s responsibility, but those who retain only rUK subject status get paid by London. A not unreasonable situation. Then, Scottish pensions become higher than London ones as our economy moves ahead. How keen will those NO voting, head in the sand, Unionist OAPs be on their precious UK then?

    160. JWil says:

      When I saw the statement, ‘73% of leading doctors’, it raised suspicion straight away. For a start who defines a leading doctor?

      I hope it does the same for all enquiring minds.

    161. Gary says:

      Statistics and stretching the meanings of words. If current trends continue 1 in 4 adult males will be an Elvis Impersonator by 2020.

    162. David Stevenson says:

      Red Road Flats (at 12.46 today):

      Can I ask you where you got the figure of £7M pa asthe zum needed to plug the research funding gap in an independent Scotland? Thanks.

    163. Iain says:

      I have also conducted an equally impressively powered and controlled poll of Dr’s (family, workmates and pals – MD, PhD, PharmD etc.) and the exact opposite is the result. Those with tertiary degrees are overwhelmingly yes’ers. Not one single no’er.

    164. JWil says:

      Just heard today of a huge funding award for Scottish research from the EU.

    165. Truth says:

      I haven’t read the Register for about 3 years.

      I was sickened by their disgusting attitude to Scotland and the Scots. I’m not surprised to see it hasn’t changed.

      They can sneer and mock all they like. It says more about them than it does about me and my fellow Scots.

    166. Rock says:

      73 out of 106 medical lobbyists (69%), members of a London based group funded mainly by the huge multinational drug and medical technology firms, are voting No.

      Absolutely nothing surprising there – such Tory types are natural No voters.

      Better Together is using this to scare natural Labour voters into voting No.

      I really hope that the Yes grassroots campaign succeeds in convincing natural Labour voters that it is in their interests to vote Yes.

    167. Graeme Doig says:

      Nana Smith 3.52

      Was listening to EBC radio news of this and sure i heard (through 3 year old telling me a story which actually made sense .. compared to bt nonsense) that this comment had been qualified by him in that he did not include Scotland in this. I could be wrong.

    168. Graeme Doig says:

      Questions been answered. Nice one.

    169. Keith MacBean says:

      I am currently in Dorset with expats and English friends and they are shocked at hearing how BT and Cameron are conducting themselves. They are all Tories and cannot understand his strategy ,’let the Scots have independence and see off Labour AND Liberals. No brainer’.

    170. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      I did a poll of the doctors I know and we were 100% voting for Yes.
      Therefore the NHS is safe in an independent Scotland.
      None of us are medical doctors and there were only five of us but we all live and work in Scotland and therefore have a vote.
      But that is still more representative than this lot of BT crap.

    171. yerkitbreeks says:

      I know a good few of these worthies from my years in London and the SE medical academia. None of them have the slightest interest in Scotland.



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