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Wings Over Scotland

Whatever else may change

Posted on April 01, 2023 by

Scottish politics might be a binfire floating down an overflowing sewer, but it’s nice to know there are at least a few things that are reliable constants, and one of them is that George Foulkes is an idiot.

But while his tweet is wrong, it’s not VERY wrong.

Foulkes refers to a new Savanta poll for the Scotsman, also reported in the Express, which suggests a huge drop in SNP seats at the next Holyrood election, from 64 to 46 – fewer than they won in 2007 when they beat Labour by just one and managed to form a government thanks largely to Alex Salmond’s carpe diem bravado.

16 years ago Labour and the Lib Dems, who’d formed a coalition for the first two terms of the Scottish Parliament, secured 62 seats between them – three short of a majority. But Salmond formed a minority government with just 47 seats (plus an essentially-symbolic extra two thanks to a loose agreement with the Greens under Robin Harper) when the Tories, and more crucially the Liberal Democrats, abstained on a vote for First Minister and Salmond beat Jack McConnell of Labour by three votes.

As Labour’s coalition partners it seemed irrational for the Lib Dems to effectively vote themselves out of office, but in the run-up to the election then-leader Nicol Stephen had resolved to end the deal, because he feared it was damaging his party.

Remarkably, just seven weeks before the election the Guardian was talking about Stephen himself moving into Bute House. (As difficult as it may be to remember, his party was still very much on the rise prior to its disastrous 2010 Westminster coalition with the Tories.) But Stephen’s decision to abstain on the vote proved momentous.

Four years later, after bold and competent government from Salmond’s minority administration, the Lib Dems – now led by Tavish Scott, who had also been adamant against a coalition with the SNP – lost almost three-quarters of their seats and became completely irrelevant as the SNP swept to Holyrood’s only absolute majority.

That irrelevance could in theory be ended if the Savanta poll were to become a reality, giving a Labour-Lib Dem alliance 51 seats to the SNP’s 46. But it would require the Greens to drop their support for Humza Yousaf’s party, and the SNP leadership election made it plain that Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater have become far too accustomed to the taste of gravy to allow that to happen. The Lib Dems themselves are the warning from history about what happens if a junior party willingly lets power slip out of its fingers and condemns itself to the sidelines.

(The Savanta poll is not an outlier. Another one out tonight, from Panelbase, presents a happier picture for the SNP but only marginally, giving them 47 seats rather than 46. Unlike the Savanta one it prompted for Alba and suggested they’d pick up four seats, basically at the expense of the Lib Dems, who’d no longer be able outnumber the SNP by joining with Labour. But even in the comically unlikely event of an SNP-Greens-Alba alliance, a pro-indy majority would be out of reach.)

So as things stand, Foulkes is talking his traditional nonsense. But the next Holyrood election is still three long years away, and if Yousaf has dropped 18 seats in his first week, with a very rocky road ahead of him, it may not be long before one of those occasions when even a stopped clock gets the time right comes along.

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  1. Ian McCubbin says:

    All this is good news in a sense but disappointing that projections doe Alba are so low.
    If ghe cascade to Alba of ex SNP and SNP is real then I would predict 10 to 20 Alba MSPs

  2. Big Jock says:

    There are already rumblings from the old guard in Holyrood. Namely people such as Fergus Ewing. I doubt Humza will last the year out.

    Same for WM. Many MPs will fear for their lives with a GE looming. They can’t go in asking for one more mandate. People are scunnered with that. No defacto referendum either. So what is the SNP strategy for WM 2024?

  3. Heaver says:

    “Hi, Humza here, ya wanna be in my cabinet?”


    “Gonna cost ye”


    “£21,428 an 57 pence”

    “Haudon… Ay that’s gone through”

    “Welcome to my cabinet”

    £21428.58 * 28 = £600000.24

  4. David Hannah says:

    I visited Westminster today. It’s a shithole. The place stinks of must. The books they debate over the despatch box are covered in dust. And the leather on the green benches are almost cracked.

    The MPs must stink of sweat in the cesspit. As the air is thick. I’d hate to be sitting next to Ian Blackford or Patrick Grady.

    The place is horrible. Absolutely horrible. And the security guard said I couldn’t take pictures. You’d not mistake Westminster for London zoo. Horrendous.

    As for the SNP. Bought and sold for English gold.

  5. David Hannah says:

    To ask the Prime Minister if he agrees with me, that a biological male is a woman?

    April Fools!

  6. AnneDon says:

    There was a time when seat predictions like that would have upset me. Now they leave me ambivalent.

    And, btw, Foulkes and the Daily Express. There’s a combination where reality goes to die!

  7. auld highlander says:

    George Foulkes is yesterdays man and like the snp, both are floating down the river on a funeral pyre.

  8. Kevin Evans says:

    And I can predict that if these numbers turn out to be correct all the SNP drongos will blame ALBA.

  9. Breastplate says:

    Big Jock,
    “They can’t go in asking for one more mandate”.

    Unfortunately, I think you’ll find that the gingernuts will be asking for exactly that, I’m not sure how many mandates they need, it may be an inexhaustible amount but according to them we’re the loonies.

  10. twathater says:

    Who woke Lard Fuckes the bloated pock nosed parasite up to give him that information, what a sweaty obese advert for the House Of Lards

  11. Al-Stuart says:

    Fascinating article Stuart.

    Nobody, other than yourself and (bizarrely) George Foulkes have it anywhere near right.

    The day after 18th September 2014, the equivalent of Operation McTroy was triggered. The IndyRef1 result was FAR TOO CLOSE.

    The operation to destroy the SNP has not yet been completed.

    The current NuSNP government will be destroyed. Humza Yousaf is the Useful Idiot that will be politically eviscerated over the next 37 months and 5 days.

    In fact there may well be an election at Holyrood sooner.

    The object of 8 years Sturgeon procrastination and Woke capture of Bute House and ScotGov whilst ignoring what REALLY matters to 99.6% of the electorate (enough of pittance to heat or eat) will end up being THE cause celebre that shall make the SNP UNELECTABLE FOR 20 YEARS.

    Go on, be Devil’s Advocate? Have a think on how you would best make the SNP unelectable to Joe and Jean McVoter?

    You do it by making the NuSNP politically radioactive.

    How about making it fashionable for Jeffrey Marsh and his grooming underage kids by giving “counselling” to them? Marsh is an infamous coach with creepy videos where his evidence-strewn modus operandi is persuading kids to cut off all communication with their parents. Then come and come stay with Jeffrey Marsh

    For good measure, bring in “hate” laws so the public get jailed if they dare mention parental concern about forcing hormone therapy on 8 year olds to change gender.?

    We ain’t even through act 2 of an 8 part Greek Tragedy in Scottish Politics.

    The NuSNP will be obliterated during the coming months. The installation of Humza Yousaf is to make Anas Sarwar less like the Village Idiot. Than mantle fits the girding clown in the photo at the top of this page.

    One way or another, whether DISGUSTING the real Scottish electorate with the NuSNP trying to normalise “Minor Attracted Persons” so Scotland becomes a pedo paradise, or just stuff NuSNP ministerial positions with Derek MacKays, the 38 degree political avalanche tipping point is going to happen.

    Stuart Campbell hit the target with his penultimate quote above.

    “The next Holyrood election is still three long years away, and if Yousaf has dropped 18 seats in his first week, with a very rocky road ahead of him, it may not be long before one of those occasions when even a stopped clock gets the time right comes along.

    In other words, the NuSNP will be out of government for 20 years, and Independence for Scotland will not be on the menu anytime before 2045.

    Blame PayPal Paul, James Kelly/ScotPlop, Bella Mike Skidmark and the rest of the stupid sheep who worshipped Dame Nicola Sturgeon of Ruskie and Knapdale and their craven amateur efforts to destroy Alex Salmond.

  12. Jock Mctavish says:

    Foulkes pished himself again? Alba must get organised and win way more seats than 4!

  13. Al Dossary says:

    Grim reading, yet completely deserved after 9 years of procrastination. And how many more have switched off to the SNP after Humza’s anti-white rant that has gone viral recently.

  14. Ros Curwood says:

    So it’s down to Salvo then.

  15. Oneliner says:

    Foulkes has been on the sauce again. We know what happened last time.

  16. Viscount Ennui says:

    Off topic (apologies).

    I was wondering if Rev Campbell could clarify a legal point:

    Do super-injunctions apply to a person or to their position? For example, and completely hypothetically, if such an injunction had been taken-out to prevent publication of material relating to the First Minister, if the incumbent steps-down from that position, does the cover end?

    Asking for a friend.

  17. Jonny Rankin says:

    I am giving everyone a freebie today since the Glasgow-Media-Scum have sat on this story for at least a year;

    1: Humza Yousaf had an affair with Anum Qaisar whilst Justice Secretary (Anum Qaisar was a case worker when Humza was Justic secretary)

    3: The SNP (or Murrell) made the mistake of accepting a bribe (sorry a donation) from Anum Qaisar’s father. A lot of money. This is why Anum Qaisar was bussed in to the seat of Aidrie & Shotts.

    Should be noted that the English press have sat on this dirt for a year (Especially the Daily Mail. they have known about this for at least a year & sat on this). Why is anyones business.

  18. Ron Clark says:

    Is Humza willing to put out the hand of friendship towards other pro-indy Parties,,,Alba for example?

    SNP 1 ALBA 2

    Or is he going to carry on with the Sturgeon mind set of
    SNP 1&2.

    Should Alex Salmond approach Humza and put a few possible outcomes his way?

    Or should Alba let the NuSNP disappear up their own backsides?

  19. Geoff Anderson says:

    The SNP are finished and any attempts to save it just wastes even more time.

    A great many people have campaigned for Independence and never lived long enough to see it. We keep going in the struggle for those Scots who follow us. We have discovered that the SNP was a false path. We need to move on and stop listening to the carrot chasers.

    Voting SNP is a scam to keep a very few of “the chosen” in comfy jobs while the rest of the Nation suffers.

    One thing I will not do, is to consider the Red Tories as an alternative.

  20. Jeremy Wickins says:

    @Viscount Ennui: super injunctions (or any other injunction) apply with regard to a person (natural or legal). I like your thinking, though.

  21. robertkknight says:

    Whenever GF is mentioned I have a mental image of a blocked and overflowing urinal. Can’t think why that’d be…

  22. Dubh says:

    That Panelbase survey only had Alba listed for the Regional vote.

    Does anyone know if Alba would somehow be banned from having candidates stand for HR constituency seats?

  23. Beauvais says:

    There should be a Westminster GE a year from now, so either Labour will fail to gain office there an unprecedented 5 elections in a row, or Starmer will get in.

    By the time of the Scottish GE in 2026 Labour will either be seen as the perpetual opposition in London, or else Starmer will have been PM for two years and will have been such a right wing tosser that he’ll have made David Cameron look like Tony Benn.

    Alba will just as easily take votes from Labour as from the SNP. Perhaps even a bit more easily. There’s no way Labour will have 38 Holyrood seats or anywhere near that at the next Scottish vote.

  24. Geoff Anderson says:

    Stammer chasing votes now! The SNP meltdown has scared him

  25. Geoff Anderson says:

    The stories about Sturgeon’s French mistress and her “marriage” are all false
    by Nicola Sturgeon.

    She lies with such ease…..

  26. Viscount Ennui says:

    Jeremy Wickins says:
    2 April, 2023 at 8:05 am

    “super injunctions (or any other injunction) apply with regard to a person (natural or legal). I like your thinking, though.”

    OK. Thanks. Just a bit puzzled about the current reporting of ‘rumours’ that have been around for years.

    Has the SNP grip on the press been loosened, I wonder.

  27. Big Jock says:

    Geoff. The SNP started off as an independence party. Indeed they were against devolution, as they thought it was a trap.

    That has been proven to be correct. Give Scotland some powers , but not enough macro powers to make a difference. Then blame Holyrood when it goes wrong. The fixed budget is the biggest confidence trick in British history.

    But the SNP have fallen for it. They are now a devolutionist party. Devolution is a mechanism of the Union. So they are a defacto unionist party.

    We need a party that is radical, bold and single minded. At the moment the only party is Alba. They are starting as the SNP in the late 90s. The SNP are now like labour. Dominating Scottish politics. The breakthrough will come, but it’s a slow burner.

    What people have to realise when it comes to future elections. It is not a betrayal, not to vote SNP. They are a unionist party, so must be rejected. Much like Labour in Scotland,they must be defeated.

    Do not keep voting for them to keep the unionist parties out. Because the SNP are unionists in nature and deed. They will not liberate Scotland. They are holding us back.

    We need to break them.

  28. Frank Anderson says:

    The coalition will be a unionist one, just like in Councils. There will be a ‘monoroty’ Labour government supported by the Tories. They won’t need the LibDumbs and ACH will not get a limo.
    At best, the LibDumbs will be begging to be part of the government, assuming they have any seats or GRR needs to be enforced/expanded.
    The SNP will not work with Alba. End of! Alba needs to commit to the list vote, just like the Greens, and get established. Leave the constituency battle to the SNP.

  29. Terry Darvel says:

    Can anyone tell me if Alba’s fondness for the Minsk accords means Donetsk and Luhansk would no longer be a part of Ukraine?

  30. Beauvais says:

    Big Jock @8:39

    Totally agree with your post.

    One thing though that isn’t widely realised. The SNP was little more than a home rule (or devo) party at its foundation in 1934. John MacCormick and his acolytes had purged the forerunner NPS of indy supporters, and so the early SNP was dominated by home rulers also, and for many years.

    The nuSNP is really a throwback to the party’s roots. I’m even far from convinced that the likes of Sturgeon, Sommerville and Wishart even voted Yes in the privacy of the voting booths in 2014. As you say Jock, they are a unionist party.

    Alba is an uncompromising indy party, and has been from the start. It is the vehicle.

  31. Geoff Anderson says:

    The keep sneaking change through…

  32. Stuart MacKay says:

    Foulkes is still under the impression that the Labour Party represents the working class and is the natural party-in-waiting. How quaint.

    The SNP have joined the ranks of the establishment parties and now they’re jostling for the best seat in the bus that has just driven over the cliff.

    Al Jazeera had a piece on Yousaf becoming First Minister. They interviewed a fudge-shop owner in Edinburgh and he was dead against independence but wanted back into the EU. After that they were clever enough to head down to Leith where they spoke to several robust talking people of lesser means. They all wanted independence because they saw that was the best option for change but they also rained on the current crop of politicians as wastrels.

    That for me, demonstrated the whole middle-class / working-class divide over the country’s future is still alive and kicking. The problem is, given how useless the politicians are, it’s hard to see a way to resolve it.

    Labour are never going to solve anything. As for the liberals, enough said. The only practical suggestion I can think of is that the SNP change their colours to include some red, green and perhaps a touch of blue. That’s about as much difference they can make to the current dead-end politics.

    It’s really is going to take a Salmond to get us out of this. The problem is that the middle-classes really are made in the image of Pete Wishart and are generally doing ok – at least in their own mind, though their children can’t afford a house and have to scatter to the four winds to find work.

    There’s nothing the SNP can do to prepare the ground. They only have the knowledge and the “talent” to entrench the broken system even deeper. It’s going to need a revolution in thinking and attitude to change things.

  33. Beauvais says:

    Nicol Stephen and Nicola Sturgeon. I bet she’d love to be where her near namesake has been these last dozen years, troughing away in the Hoose ‘o Lords.

    It’ll happen too. If she had enough sang froid to frame her mentor on a serious charge then she’s got enough sang froid to ignore her party’s policy of not accepting an ermine cloak and a seat on those red benches.

  34. 100%Yes says:

    Even if the SNP lost all their seats in Westminster & Holyrood it isn’t going to make this now unionist party change direction on the constitutional question.
    I’ve been voting for Independence and to go back into the EU, but what I have been voting for is to give Hannah Bardell in a job for life.

  35. Natal XY and proud says:

    Geoff Anderson says:
    2 April, 2023 at 8:29 am
    The stories about Sturgeon’s French mistress and her “marriage” are all false
    by Nicola Sturgeon.

    She lies with such ease…..

    If you read what she says very carefully you can see that she never actually denies the claims.

  36. Frank Waring says:

    Wikipedia tell me that Tunisia is a “… a unitary semi-presidential representative democratic republic….”. At the last elections, a few months ago, the disenchantment of ordinary people with the whole rotten business of party politics was such that the voter turnout was only just over 11%. Just saying.

  37. Muscleguy says:

    The SNP might just lose just enough seats to do a 2011 of course. That came because they hit a previously unappreciated sweet spot in the voting system maximising the List vote from not getting too many constituencies.

    The worry is that someone else might hit that sweet spot . . .

  38. panda paws says:


    No Alba aren’t banned from the constituency vote. Whether it is a good idea to stand there as opposed to focussing on the list another matter. You’d need big names to break through. If Alex Salmond’s name was cleared via exposure of the Alphabetties then it might be worth him standing. Or if Kenny McAskill and Neale Hanvey lose their Westminster seats as predicted they could stand in constituencies. But otherwise, stick to the list imho.

  39. Muscleguy says:

    2011 showed you can get a majority in the parliament without a majority of the votes. They lost seats in 2016 because their vote went UP and so they moved off the sweet spot. Of course getting the SNP to admit this is a lost cause.

  40. Viscount Ennui says:

    I am becoming increasingly concerned about an elderly person who appears to have gone missing in recent days. Mr P. Wishart is known to be “very confused” at times and has no sense of political direction.
    If anyone has sighted him recently, please let the police know.
    The public has been warned not to approach him.

  41. 100%Yes says:

    Joe Binden rejects coronation invite.

  42. Breeks says:

    People seem to forget the decades lost when Scotland was stubbornly voting for Labour, while the more enlighted SNP voter of the day tried in vain to understand the loyalty of the typical Labour voter, when the case for Independence was transparently clear.

    For all we know, that scenario might have rumbled on for decades more, because the Labour vote seemed impenetrable to Nationalist arguments. In their eyes, Labour could do no wrong, and supposing Labour policy had advocated the drowning of kittens, their voters would have devised all manner arguments to justify and excuse the feline atrocity, and declare it as a long held belief.

    That’s how I see Sturgeon’s nuSNP, which is now Yousaf’s nuSNP…

    Neither the party, nor their supporters, are listening to reason anymore. Sturgeon was brilliant. They won’t hear a word said against her. Humza is terrific, the Party’s man whereas the other two were divisive heretics. We have to postpone Independence in order to make Devolution work better for Scotland… and the party faithful lap up the same Koolaid they’ve aquired such a taste for, and turn off the warning radar for problems on the horizon.

    This is absurd. This is counter intuitive. But this was also the affliction which blighted Scotland for decades. Labour revelled in hubris, absolutely thrived on it. Sadly, the SNP has now got the Labour fixation, and I fear it’s us who are the delusional ones if we think this is gonna be fixed next election.

    I mean, yes, it will come crashing down eventually, but be aware, before it all came crashing down, Labour gave us Donald Dewer, Henry McLeish, Jack McConnell, Wendy Alexander, Iain Gray, Johann Lamont, Anas Sarwar, Kezia Dugdale, Jim Murphy… A litany of inept dreadfulness…

    In Scotland these political “fixations” can defy gravity for decades, and the current SNP now suffers from two of them; the Transgender fixation, and the sister fixation that it’s the SNP and SNP ALONE who can deliver Independence. Burn ALBA at the stake.

    These two fixations are difficult to debunk, because the heads these delusion run around inside, tend to be buried in the sand.

    As for us, the ones who see, we are already plotting the SNP’s demise at the polls, with the Independence batten handed to ALBA once the SNP has finally passed the point of despair. Sadly, I don’t believe that’s a quick fix, and truth be told, I don’t think it’s a fix at all.

    What happened to Labour will happen to the SNP, but if nothing changes, what will soon happen to the SNP will one day happen to ALBA UNLESS we break the mould and do something different.

    The ONLY way to circumvent the Eternal Bog of a Vichy Holyrood and subjugation by the 1998 Scotland Act, is to remove Westminster’s grip over electoral protocols in Scotland.

    That shouldn’t be hard in theory, because the people of Scotland are sovereign. It will be hard however, because Westminster has a sizeable army of individuals and politicians thoroughly indoctrinated into the Constitutional Dystopia which the UK Government has foisted upon Scotland.

    I’m not advocating armed insurrection or violence of any sort, but people need to realise that Scottish Independence is in fact the wholesale rejection of the current government, removing it from power wholesale, and installing a new Scottish Government to replace it… wholesale.

    Stop kidding yourselves that ANY form of UK brokered “democracy” is going to deliver this outcome for Scotland. It isn’t. The government we have is the government which subjugates Scotland.

    If we attack them in the same old way, they will defeat us in the same old way. The “different” way, is through SALVO, and the Claim of Right, and setting our own rules and protocols.

    There is no First Minister. There is no Scotland Act. These shiny baubles are a showground distraction, brought to you by Westminster and the UK Broadcasting Establishment.

    The reality is, there is only Scotland’s sovereign Community of the Realm, and Scottish Constitutional Sovereignty. All Scotland currently lacks is the mechanism which links the two together.

    An Independent Scotland’s first act of resurrection, is to expel the false “cuckoo” UK Constitution which has made itself at home in the Scottish Constitutional nest.

  43. Dan says:

    Archived link for Alf’s direct link to a unionist paper…

  44. Politically Homeless says:

    That a Labour-Tory coalition is impossible is the most ancient certainty in British politics, but things are changing. In Scotland, both parties’ business is primarily safeguarding the Union. Labour under Starmer is moving towards “Blue Labour”, ie., winning back Northern English, Leave voting working class Tories. With Starmer in No 10 and a red-blue coalition in Holyrood I predict we will end up with a more right wing government in Scotland than in London thanks to the geniuses at SNP HQ.

  45. Mac says:

    The SNP hit the sweet spot in 2011 because they were transitioning from a mostly list seat party to a mostly constituency seat party. It is when you are in that transition that the sweet spot opens up.

    So it is not something you can really realistically aim for now (as that transition has already happened) and the SNP will not hit it on the way down.

    Instead the smart move is to have a second independence party on the list. And then you can get a super majority with comparative ease. We could call it ALBA or something like that… and then vote SNP 1 / ALBA 2.

    But of course the weegingerdug dickheads didn’t want to do that and now look where they are… fucked.

    Pride does indeed come before a fall.

  46. Dorothy Devine says:

    Viscount Ennui , thank you for the chortle!

  47. John Main says:

    @Stuart MacKay says:2 April, 2023 at 9:14 am

    Foulkes is still under the impression that the Labour Party represents the working class

    Naw. He believes that the mass of uninterested voters is still under the impression that the Labour Party represents the working class. I wouldn’t bet against him on that.

    their children can’t afford a house and have to scatter to the four winds to find work

    That same mass of uninterested voters has yet to work out why a population that has long been breeding below replacement level is simultaneously exploding in numbers.

    For those who do see the bigger picture, the resources and pressures of the state, the MSM, social media, and “not liking to make a fuss” are deployed to ensure nobody speaks up. And if that doesn’t work, they hold historical injustice and unearned privilege in reserve, to guilt trip most of us into silence.

    It’s going to need a revolution in thinking and attitude to change things

    Maybes naw though. A believable, competent, articulate, fearless leader could turn all of this around in a year. That’s how it works on the continent, where new political parties and alignments spring up from nowhere.

  48. Muscleguy says:

    @Mac and they were still a bit regionally based in some places but not in others which also helped them on the List.

  49. President Xiden says:

    Imagine a hypothetical situation where a Government set up a news ministry in order to launder money and hide financial mismanagement and called it the ministry for I independence or something, you know the sort of corruption which goes on in third world dictatorships.

  50. President Xiden says:

    Imagine a hypothetical situation where a Government set up a news ministry in order to launder money and hide financial mismanagement and called it the ministry for independence or something, you know the sort of corruption which goes on in third world dictatorships.

  51. Daisy Walker says:

    ‘Viscount Ennui says:
    2 April, 2023 at 8:38 am

    Has the SNP grip on the press been loosened, I wonder.’

    Doubtful, but since there is a new boss in the top seat, with new secrets and scandals to hide, rattling Nikla’s cage a bit, would be a good way to shake the money tree and obtain some new ‘grants’ for msm.

  52. Mac says:

    I honestly expect these poll numbers to be the high water mark of the Yousaf debacle years.

    It is going to get a lot worse.

    Be nice to see ALBA doing better but to be fair they are +4% while the SNP are -4%. Can’t ask for more than that… for now. And that small swing costs the SNP 17 seats and gains ALBA 4.

    The irony here is that if the SNP had recommended voting SNP 1 / ALBA 2 we would already have a super majority and I would wager that Sturgeon would still be FM.

    Rejecting doing that out of spite and entering into a coalition with the fruitloops instead of ALBA proved fatal. It is poetic justice that Sturgeon vindictiveness was the architect of her own downfall.

    You can’t shed 50,000 SNP members without seeing a similar shift in the broader electorate. This is just the beginning. Wait until Humza really starts making an arse of things… oh boy.

  53. Lenny Hartley says:

    Mac, there is no correlation between Snp going down in polls and Alba Rising, re number of seats.

  54. John Main says:

    @Breeks says:2 April, 2023 at 10:00 am

    There is much in what you write.

    Us Sovereign Scots still need a leader though.

    An unled mass of Sovereign Scots is a rabble.

  55. Mac says:

    So if the SNP does go beyond the 2017 (UK GE) level vote collapse who would be the 25 or so SNP MSPs most likely to lose their seat?

    Same question for the SNP MPs as well I suppose for when that rolls around.

    Is there somewhere you can see a list of MSPs/MP by the size of their majority?

    Kate Forbes I saw had a pretty healthy majority but not sure about any others.

    Pete Wishart however will likely be gone at a UK GE. Amazingly I see he retained his seat in 2017 by only a margin of 21 votes! Turkeys do indeed vote for Christmas in Pete’s case. Still that pension will be gold plated and that was the most important thing you waste of space gobshite…

  56. Robert Hughes says:

    @ Viscount Ennui

    Good news ! Mr Wishat has been found . He and his pal Joe ( Mrs Biden’s wee boy ) were located in the sand-pit of a local nursery , making castles , faces and clothes streaked with ice cream and jelly they’d somehow acquired ( it’s thought they’d broken into the nursery food store ) .

    When told they would have to go home because their mummies were worried about them , our pair of mischievous monkeys burst into tears , crying ” NO ! that’s not fair , we wanna stay here ” : as they were escorted into the waiting police car wailed ” we’re gonna tell our big sisters – Nikla & Hilary you spoiled our fun , then you’ll be sorry ” .

    Police report the little imps have been grounded for a week and had their Playstations confiscated for a similar period .

    No charges will be pressed for the ( suspected ) food store robbery

  57. Ruby says:

    Great programme on Talk TV.

    I really miss ‘The Alex Salmond Show’

    It’s starting again gotta go.

  58. Republicofscotland says:

    I couldn’t care less what Foulkes thinks, he sold Scotland out years ago, and Labour in Scotland (BLiS) has the interests of a foreign country at heart, any real indy supporter would never vote for BLIS/Libdem/Tory.

    For us it must be to bring down the SNP and replace them with Alba and the ISP, it will take years but what else can we do, the SNP sold Scotland out, and we must remove them starting with the their MPs at the next GE who’ve done nothing to further our cause.

    I think if we can get some Alba/ISP MPs/MSPs especially MSPs at Holyrood then we might see some defections from the SNP to Alba or the ISP by a few half-decent MSPs who have had to keep quiet to not be deselected or feel the wrath of the SNP hierarchy, yes its a spineless gutless position to take, but under the right conditions some of those MSPs will flourish instead of floundering.

    We’ve got three years to get behind Alba and the ISP to get a few of them (hopefully by then more) elected to Holyrood. Voting for the SNP will see nothing change, voting for the Britnat parties at Holyrood will also damage our cause, new blood is required at Holyrood and that where the Alba party and the ISP come in, thankfully we now know what must be done.

    The SNP must be destroyed and replaced with real independence parties that’s the Alba party and the ISP, yes it will take time, but what options do we have?

    The sooner we begin the the better.

    Vote Alba/ISP, Join Alba/ISP

  59. Ottomanboi says:

    The question of civic nationalism, the species supposedly promoted by the contemporary SNP, and its possible function in slowing the pace to independence with liminal social engineering policies, is germane.
    It might be argued that the SNP has put the cart well before the horse, that civic nationalism eventually succeeds ethno-cultural nationalism once the latter has provided the requisite raw energy and impetus to release the nation from the grip of the old order, it being the psychological dynamic that actually liberates.
    In the case of the UK which has no recognizable civic nationalism a «muzzy», anglicanesque patriotism fulfills the function, a type of British «shinto» in effect which will be rolled out during may with all its anglocentric, ruritanian semiotics.
    The fact that a Scot espousing republicanism, socialism and one assumes independence is involved is a semiotic phenomenon in itself. No ethno-cultural nationalist would be so tricked.

  60. Republicofscotland says:

    The Alba party CAN and WILL get its foot in the door of Holyrood at the next election, from there who knows what can happen, defections to Alba, secret meetings between Alba and those too afraid to speak out who want independence, we just need to make sure we vote for the Alba party come the next Holyrood elections.

    Its up to YOU as to how many Alba MSPs we get elected, how badly do you want independence.

    “According to Panelbase ALBA would win 3 seats in Holyrood
    And we are just getting started ”

    Vote Alba, Join Alba save Scotland.

  61. thursoberwick says:

    The latest lie about Yousaf the Phoney is exposed. Seems our “Glaswegian” First Minister is nothing of the kind. He was born there, but grew up in posh Newton Mearns in Renfrewshire.

  62. dandydons1903 says:

    Foulkes really is Lord Pishypants just another sad old unionist fool and gravytrain rider of the britstate so him and the new SNP have many things in common.

  63. Stephen O'Brien says:

    SNP, Rutherglen Branch, meeting..

  64. sam says:

    Was yesterday Trans Day of Risibility?

  65. Ruby says:

    Geoff Anderson says:
    2 April, 2023 at 8:29 am

    The stories about Sturgeon’s French mistress and her “marriage” are all false
    by Nicola Sturgeon.

    Here’s one I prepared earlier way back in June 2022 when ‘Pacman’ asked

    Balmoral incident?

    I had read our Nicola threw an iron across the room for some unknown reason, can’t figure why such a nice person would do that?

    It was a crime passionnel even nice people can be pushed to their limits by love. Nicolette found her ‘petite amie francaise’ cosying up to Al Samonde in her boudoir in the Ballmoral Hotel. Nicolette blew a fuse & so did the ‘Morphy Richard’s’ steam iron that she chucked at the pair.
    She missed and iron went flying through the window.

    It flew through the air with sparks & steam shooting out of it’s many holes all the way down to Prinkles Street. It knocked out Pierre Murrelle who pretended he was waiting for his ‘wife’ at the entrance to the Ballmoral.

    What he was actually doing there was waiting for his magpies to return with all the ‘bling’ they’d picked up from the Ballmoral Penthouse suites. The poor man desperately needed to find a way to get his hands on £600K! Sadly poor Pierre ended up in hospital with a concussion & a series of small round burns all over his bald head.
    His magpies were taken into care by the RSPB and lived happily ever after.

    This is a work of fiction. Names, characters, business, events and incidents are the products of the author’s imagination. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

  66. willie says:

    To be absolutely crystal clear this is the legacy of Sturgeon and her deliberate policy to undermine the SNP, the Yes movement and the forward motion for independence.

    The squandering of mandate after mandate, the vicious attempt to destroy Alex Salmond who could have returned to drive independence forward, the stuffing of the NEC, the abolition of the National Council, the emasculation of members, the centralising control of the party, the promotion and implementation of utterly unpopular and unwanted policies such as GRR, the taking of Scotland out of Europe against its wishes, accepting the Supreme Court as arbiter of Scotland being subsidiary to England.

    The list goes on and on whilst all the while he majority of people’s living standards, health care provision goes down the stank, whilst the clique and the troughers dine on the public payroll.

    Sold out big time, spun a tissue of pap, and now with a rigged election of a Continuity Leader the collapse of the SNP is no accident.

    Bought and sold for English Gold – I suspect the collapse of the SNP will be quicker than we think. And thank God it will collapse because this will allow the birth of a new movement.

  67. Stuart MacKay says:

    John Main @10:32am

    You’re correct. Foulkes still expects the working class to keep him in the manner he’s become accustomed to. The same goes for the SNP – everyone is craving the Wishart lifestyle.

    > A believable, competent, articulate, fearless leader could turn all of this around in a year.

    Absolutely, that’s why I said a “Salmond figure” was needed. It’s likely to take a bit longer though, as all the political parties and a good deal of the chattering classes would be arrayed against such a change.

    The communists are starting to get it – just a little. Their new-found backbone on equality over inclusion is a step in the right direction. They may still be unelectable and slightly deluded idealists but they are paying attention.

  68. willie says:

    Just posted a comment and it has disappeared despite refreshing the page.

    Not an uncommon experience these days on Wings. Some times comments disappear for ever. Some times they surface some hours later. Some times they flash up immediately on my screen saying awaiting moderation.

    Is this the way that the site works now Rev. I can understand that you may wish to exercise some moderation but my experiences, and indeed that of others are not reflective of the type of moderation that one would expect.

    Any comment would be appreciated regarding what I, and many many others think is the number one Scottish Independence site.

  69. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Mac.

    RE: 2019 GE.

    There’s a lot of info at the link below. Scroll down to “Target Seats” to see where the threats to the SNP were – and could be.

  70. Anton Decadent says:

    Re woke being a plot to destroy the SNP, it has also captured other parties such as Labour, Lib Dems, Greens, a chunk of the Tories and over in Ireland parties such as Sinn Fein. The entire political class holds the electorate in contempt. The media will use it to harm the SNP if it suits its purpose whilst not mentioning that the other parties are equally guilty.

    Re Humzas’, and Sarwar, let us not forget, anti white rant in parliament. To secure his place in history he should carry out a root and branch investigation into over representation of ethnic groups in politics, academia and the media etc. He got away with calling out whites so surely in a white majority country no minority group would have the power to render him unable to make a living anywhere including politics if he looked into over representation across the board.

  71. Shug says:

    The best tactic for Humza would be to ask Alex Salmond to lead the constitutional convention and lead the push. That way if it crashes it was Salmonds’s fault and he gets to be leader of devolved Scotland and if he wins he is the shoo in for an indy scotland

  72. Ruby says:

    willie says:
    2 April, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    Just posted a comment and it has disappeared despite refreshing the page.

    Any comment would be appreciated regarding what I, and many many others think is the number one Scottish Independence site.

    Are you referring to this comment willie?

    If so then it’s all down to a lack of patience on your part.

    Stay cool ‘willie’ and have a great Sunday.

  73. Republicofscotland says:

    “The media will use it to harm the SNP if it suits its purpose whilst not mentioning that the other parties are equally guilty.”

    Anton Decedent.

    The entire media in Scotland is controlled by foreign countries, there goal is to maintain the status quo, unlike when a colour revolution is underway the media then calls for change depending on where their funding is coming from (NED, Ford Foundation etc).

    The independence movement has no mainstream media channels, broadcasting will NEVER EVER be devolved its to powerful a tool.

    The SNP needs to be destroyed for they are no longer a party for Scottish independence, there is very little difference between the current SNP and BLiS LibDems and the Tory branch offices in Scotland, they all want Scotland to remain trapped in this union.

    Only from the ashes of the SNP can we break out of this vicious circle of voting for them, we need to vote for the Alba party the REAL party for Scottish independence.

  74. Republicofscotland says:

    Scotland’s former chief executive Nathan Sparling, a former aide to the SNP’s Angus Robertson charged with fraud.

  75. Republicofscotland says:

    £8 million quid of taxpayers cash to be wasted on dishing out portraits of King Charles III to institutions that want them.

  76. Stuart MacKay says:

    @Rev, I hear you have a new book coming out “Nicola Sturgeon. My part in her downfall” (apologies to Spike Milligan).

    From The Herald, “Nicola Sturgeon says online rumours played part in resignation”,

    Nice try, by sorry Nicla – they can’t be rumours if they’re true.

  77. Anton Decadent says:

    Re Republicofscotland

    Re foreign interests controlling the media, at the Guardian money was donated by both George Soros and Bill Gates when, judging by the comments under articles, it was losing its readership by going full bore anti white woke. Up here as the Herald went in the same direction it was one of a number of media outlets which was given money by the Scottish government.

    For pretty much all of this century readers have not sustained the printed media, it had, apparently, been advertising, and as this has also not been enough it has been a cash flow from vested interests. I imagine that this has always been the case and that we were just less aware of it.

    At least we have The National, eh.

  78. James Che says:


    Have curiousity ever made you wonder how there is the self declaration of Westminsters parliament stating they are Sovereign,
    But never explain whom gave them actual sovereignty over people.

    On the other hand Charles is supposed to become a sovereign monarch in May 2023.

    Two sovereignties in britain?

    One has to be fake.

  79. Stoker says:

    The following is not politics, but it’s every bit as important.

    “Police probe after Rangers coach reportedly headbutts Celtic boss”

    How long does it actually take to look at video footage then arrest the piece of shit responsible and charge him?

    The slimy coward needs to be kicked out of the Scottish game because football is a sport followed by millions of kids who are easily influenced by the actions of their “heroes” on the pitch. All kids then attempt to imitate their idols both on and off the field of play. And especially the big “grown up” kids. Sad, i know, but it happens. Just watch any Sunday League-type game. LOL!

    If that had been any ordinary bloke on the street he would have been charged with assault by now. Plus a blow to the back of someone’s head who is not even looking is not only cowardly, it can easily end up fatal. Using pish-poor excuses such as “football’s a game of high passion etc” is unacceptable.

    The vast majority of those involved in football don’t go around attacking individuals just because [place any number of excuses here] when the game doesn’t go their way. And anyone employed by Celtic or Rangers, for obvious reasons, have *EXTRA* responsibility to conduct themselves in an appropriately acceptable manner at all times.

    But hey, poor Craig, it was out of character for him, eh! An apology isn’t good enough. We don’t need cowards like him infesting the Scottish game, acting like some wannabe hard man, and influencing the next generation to become thugs. The SFA need to act firmly to ensure that behaviour doesn’t get a chance to become a part of some youngsters character. Or will they send the message that resorting to violence is OK when things don’t go your way?

    The SFA is rancid to its core, and always has been. Letting scum like that earn a living within our national sport sends the wrong message. And that goes for any scumbag resorting to loutish thuggery, from any club. If that’s how he acts in public, is that how he treats his wife when they fall-out? Make’s you wonder.

    He shouldn’t be allowed to operate at any level in the Scottish professional or amateur games. His coaching credentials should be removed immediately then we can tell our kids, “See, that’s what happens when you act like that.” But i doubt he will get more than a ‘naughty boy’ slap on the wrist that will not publicly demonstrate to kids that actions like that have serious consequences.

    Just another part of rancidly corrupt Scotland. Shameful!

  80. Anton Decadent says:

    Re my comment re vested interests, the Telegraph was also taking £250,000 a year from the CCP in return for advertorials in favour of China.

  81. James Che says:

    There is a rumour in England that there is no monarch, only a representative chair was held by queen Elizabeth! And Charles will take on the Chair in May this year.
    And that is why Westminster claims it is Sovereign, because it is the Crown that sits in Westminster that is the Sovereignty,

    This came about due to the English bill of Rights in late 1600s based on the Magna Carta.

    There English parliament is Claiming the are two Sovereignties, the Monarch and the Westminster parliament. A duel equal shared sovereignty between themselves and a royal monarch of Britain.

  82. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Alex Salmond on TalkTV this morning.

  83. Republicofscotland says:

    Anton Decadent.

    At last count (Iain Lawson told me) we the Scottish public are funding the newspapers in Scotland to the tune of £9 million quid.

    £9 million quid given to them and in return they lie to us, why are we helping to prop up anti-Scottish independence newspapers including the National, no real indy minded government would help keep afloat that lot.

    Mind you no indy minded FM would give the newsrag editor (Murray Foote that printed the lying vow a job either, nor would they give the ex-head of the UK’s Civil Service Sir Nicolas MacPherson (who openly admitted that his department actively worked against Scottish independence in 2014) a job.

    Vote Alba, Join Alba get the SNP out.

  84. Republicofscotland says:

    James Che.

    No one gave England sovereignty over Scotland, Westminster and its monarchy just assumed it, the sovereignty of the two countries are completely incompatible.

    In England the crown is sovereign in Scotland its the people that are sovereign, not enough Scots know this and just assume England’s monarch has sovereignty in Scotland, however in England King Charles had to publicly swear to uphold our Claim of Right of Scots, on the death of his mother.

    Westminster politicians and their government knows fine well that England cannot hold Scotland in this union against its will, of late they have been aided and abetted by our very own ex-FM Sturgeon the betrayer.

    Basically the plan of the Britnats (SNP included) is, not to give the people of Scotland anyway to express their will on the matter of the constitution incase they decide to leave the union.

  85. Debatable Lands says:

    ‘After independence, Scottish politics will return to normal’.

    This, or versions of this, is something I hear frequently. It’s a sort of self reassurance that whilst the country is currently run by grifters and lunatics, independence will sweep them away and great minds and decent souls will emerge to run a fair and sensible society.

    Except, that’s unlikely. Holyrood has spent the same decades creating and refining a political class every bit as weak, woke and self-serving as Westminster has managed. They’ll reward themselves by making sure they stay in power by whatever means necessary.

    It’s looking at Humza and Shona and thinking, ‘This is as good as it gets?’ that answers the question about why support for independence has not grown.

    We’d all be better off fixing the democratic mechanisms across these islands, before we start handing the huge project of independence delivery and the almost unlimited powers of statehood into the hands of people who are not just bad, but bad in a dangerous way.

  86. Ron Clark says:

    Pete Wishart is the SNPs very own George Faulkes.

  87. crazycat says:

    @ Mac at 11.21

    Here is a prediction of which MSPs would lose their seats:

  88. Ron Clark says:

    And this has to be the best news story of the day.

    President Joe Biden telling Charlie where he can shove his English Coronation.

    The Express:-

    “Biden’s Coronation snub ‘extraordinary insult’ to UK as family’s monarchy hatred exposed.
    President Joe Biden has previously written about his Irish family’s disdain for the British Royal Family and England.”

    We know exactly what you mean Joe, we have very similar feelings here in Scotland.

  89. socratesmacsporran says:

    Ron Clark @ 3.29pm

    I never did, and never could have voted for George Foulkes even though he was my MP for many years.

    However, no way could Weak Pishfart ever be: “The SNP’s very own George Foulkes.”

    Even at his worst, George is still at least ten times the politician and man of Pishfart.

  90. James Che says:


    I recently have been watching the Vobes Show and a large portion of England are discussing the British/ English constitution, within which there is very little mention of the union that never was,

    In is interesting and a good education to see people down south talking in a more independent ( people ) forum kind of way and relating it to whom holds Sovereignty.

  91. Cynicus says:

    “Which French diplomat are you having an affair with?” Campbell asked. Sturgeon, apparently unruffled, replied laughing: “I’ll tell you off camera which one it’s supposed to be. But whichever one it is, we’ve actually had a laugh about it.” -The Sunday Times
    Is that is an example of a non-denial denial like those spouted by the Nixon White House during Watergate?

  92. Breeks says:

    I’m sure I read somewhere that Pete Wishart was missing in action…

    ” Some of the stuff Nicola got from the Albists and hard line unionists was as absurd as it was disgusting.” says Pete.

    ” ‘We will shower you in the most vile disgusting smears and then it will be up to you to deny them.’ Yup. That’s how they work…..” says Pete.

    Hey Pete Wishart, could you maybe give us all a short reminder of what Nicola and her pals subjected Alex Salmond to? Didn’t think so, ya shitey wee po-faced hypocrite.

  93. Geoff Anderson says:

    OK…who is the Tory MP who woke up at 4am naked in a Brothel and had to phone another MP to come and rescue him?

    The story has been confirmed but no name as yet!

  94. Red says:

    New leaders are supposed to bring a polling bounce.

    But it’s Humza, lol

  95. Xaracen says:

    James Che said;

    “Two sovereignties in Britain?

    One has to be fake.”

    Westminster pretends that there is only one sovereign entity in the UK; itself.

    But, James, there really are two sovereignties in Britain! They are the two equally sovereign kingdoms that founded the Union and its Parliament, both of which are represented in the Parliament by their MPs.

    One is the sovereign Kingdom of England whose sovereignty was vested in their now non-existent English Parliament but is now effectively held by the MPs of the Kingdom of England. The other is the sovereign Kingdom of Scotland, the sovereignty of which is embodied in its people, but who delegate authority to their MPs to represent them and exercise governance within the UK Parliament on their behalf.

    Westminster’s English establishment misrepresents what MPs are. It pretends that the Union’s MPs represent the 650 non-sovereign constituencies of the United Kingdom, and that there are no significant distinctions between them, and that is precisely how Westminster’s internal voting system treats them; as a single body of UK MPs, and so any majority vote by that body is automatically a legitimate UK-made decision.

    This description is false. The voting system does indeed behave as described but it is based on an inappropriate model of the actual legal and constitutional make-up of the United Kingdom, and of what those MPs actually represent.

    While it is true that Westminster’s MPs are all UK MPs, it is only true in isolation, and even then only trivially; it is such a gross oversimplification of the truth that it amounts to an egregious falsehood because it focusses exclusively on a triviality, while it deliberately ignores the vastly more important distinction that separates those 650 MPs into two clearly different groups, one fully and only representing the Scottish founder kingdom, the other fully and only representing the English founder kingdom.

    This distinction is based on the separate but equal sovereignty that each parent kingdom owns, and each of those sovereignties must be fully recognised for the proper exercise of lawful and constitutional governance of the two still sovereign kingdoms that are the Union, as agreed by the Treaty of Union that founded both the UK and its Parliament. The presence of two distinct, separate, and equal sovereignties rather than one means that neither kingdom’s MP group can represent the Union on its own, and thus neither MP group can pass any legislation binding on the Union on their own, since the Parliament is the Union parliament, not the English or Scottish parliament, and because neither MP group has sufficient authority on their own to deny the sovereignty of the other group’s parent kingdom by setting aside that group’s majority vote in favour of its own parent.

    England’s MPs having no authority over Scotland, nor over her MPs, means that a majority vote by them in favour of a matter, if large enough to overrule a majority vote against it by Scotland’s MPs, is therefore a unilateral decision by the English kingdom alone, thus ultra vires in the Union, simply because England is not the Union, and doesn’t get to make or deny Scotland’s decisions. Both kingdoms together are the Union; each kingdom, via its MPs, must agree by two majority votes in favour for a decision to be an actual Union decision.

    Such unilateral outcomes can only happen because England’s MPs are vastly more numerous than Scotland’s, and because Westminster’s internal voting system completely ignores the presence and significance of the two sovereignties. It simply assumes that any majority outcome is a legitimate one, when in fact many are not. It is a simple problem to correct, but the sole beneficiary of this problem, England, always England, has no interest in applying any corrective amendment because not doing so gives England vastly more power than it is entitled to, enabling it to inflict much abuse upon Scotland, and it has done so enthusiastically on many occasions.

    Passing legislation on a unilateral vote by England alone is illegal, unconstitutional, and a direct breach of Scotland’s sovereignty.

    Nothing in the Treaty or Acts of Union provides the necessary authority for England’s MPs to overrule Scotland’s MPs; that the voting system in Westminster was known about in advance is irrelevant, because the voting system wasn’t a matter that was agreed in the Treaty or Acts. Implicit (ie, unwritten) agreements cannot be ratified by either parliament, and so can have no legal force. The voting system should have been amended as soon as the new Parliament of Great Britain came into existence, and it is to the English establishment’s eternal disgrace that even now it hasn’t bothered to correct it.

  96. Cynicus says:

    Why are people here do harsh on Humza?

    He has already invested five days.

    Another 45 and he will overtake Liz Truss!

  97. John Main says:

    @Cynicus 5:58

    Have a wee peek at WGD. They think Yousaf has had a stellar first week.

    Admittedly, no firm date has yet been set for the eradication of poverty, but gie the man a brek.

    He will need to pace himself if he is not to run out of things to do by the summer.

  98. John Main says:

    @Republic 3:00

    You’ve got a bit of that arse over tit.

    The reason the SNP won’t go down the Sovereign Scot route is because they fear a majority of us Sovereign Scots will plump for the status quo.

    You can’t just ignore the persistent majority against Indy as if it is of no account.

  99. Alisdair says:

    Stoker at 2.20


  100. Izzie says:

    I am wondering if Alba will put up Alex Salmond as a candidate for the upcoming by election. He could be the new Winnie Ewing.

  101. Viscount Ennui says:

    This is the question that should be asked of NS:

    “You cannot state that there is a super-injunction to protect your privacy because that would contravene the SI itself, but you can specifically deny that there is one if none exists. So do you deny that you have a super-injunction?”

  102. Viscount Ennui says:

    There may be a split infinitive in my last post.
    I must banish myself.

  103. Daisy Walker says:

    Geoff Anderson says:
    2 April, 2023 at 5:19 pm

    OK…who is the Tory MP who woke up at 4am naked in a Brothel and had to phone another MP to come and rescue him?

    The story has been confirmed but no name as yet!’

    If ever there was a guessing game, that was the equivalent to shooting fish in a barrel, then this would be it (excluding the part about being the main story in a newspaper).

  104. Ian McCubbin says:

    Beauvais has it right as does Bug Jock
    Let’s get behind Alba for list seats and take on opposition position until Alba break through.
    Independence is not dead bh a long shot yet.

  105. Kcor says:

    How are the much touted defections from the SNP going?

    My view is that the likes of Regan and Cherry would only defect if their re-elections were at stake.

    SNP, do us a favour and de-select them.

    It is time for a clear division between those who are in favour of independence now and those who are in favour of independence after 2640 AD.

  106. Cynicus says:

    @John Main, 6.13PM

    Thanks for that.

    I see the recently and fiercely critical Capella is having a Humza rethink.

    How long before Dr Jim roosts back in the comfort of the establishment nest ?

  107. Cat-Sith says:

    @John Main 6:19pm
    Well that seems to depend on the definition of “people of Scotland” and “Sovereign Scots”.

  108. Effijy says:

    Sir Robert Devereux the Civil Servant who organised the pension age
    for women going up from 60 to 67 is to retire at age 61 with a pension
    pot of £1.8 million.

    We are all in it together and we have all got to tighten our belts, work harder and longer???

  109. Alf Baird says:

    John Main @ 6:19 pm

    “You can’t just ignore the persistent majority against Indy as if it is of no account.”

    We may have to consider why this is the case, and that for indigenous people at least it may be largely due to a ‘colonial mindset’ and ‘Appropriated Racial Oppression’, the result of cultural assimilation, economic exploitation and domination (i.e. oppression) by another culture/people.

  110. Jamie says:

    It is good to see Alba getting on the board with some MSP’s. Getting those first MSP’s is the hard part for any party but once you’re in the parliament you begin to get more recognition and it gives a platform to build on.

    First get in that parliament which amplifies the voice then build on that to bigger and better.

  111. Joe says:

    ‘We may have to consider why this is the case’

    I can think of 2 immediate problems that stare me in the face every time I look at the messaging coming from the Scottish Independence movement in general.

    1 – there is as yet no agreement on what independence actually means. This is not surprising since there is no actual agreement on who or what a Scot is. Im not going to go into this as I already explained this in a previous post – in general everyone can agree that ethnic minorities may need some special consideration from time to time in that they express differences to us, but significantly less are prepared to extend the same consideration to Scots and even recognise our ethnicity as even worthy of mentioning.

    2- from the first point we start to get to the root of why many people, such as myself, are completely put off by not just the SNP, but the Scottish National Party, Alba and the wider indy movement.

    I cannot respect an enemy or a friend who is this inconsistent. Indeed, I would rather have my ideological enemies run my country who have a consistent message and approach than my so-called friends who have no such consistency.

    This inconsistency is rife not just within the movement but within the individuals who make up the movement.

    One example:

    ‘We must secure Womens spaces from men’

    Fine by me

    But what I don’t understand is why showers, changing rooms, prisons and abuse shelters are the only focus. What about we secure Scottish women’s country from the mass importation of ideologies and religions that teach their followers that women who are not of their own are in effect prostitutes and that women should have no say in governing society? Those same ideologies have been central to the mass abuse, torture and murder of girls in this country.

    ‘We must protect LGB rights’

    Same answer. Opening our doors to people who come from countries that legally hurl homosexuals from the roofs of buildings might not be protecting the homosexuals here.

    Just some examples. I could go on with many thousands of words, example by example. But this insane double standard is what has got Scotland into the mess it is in. If the Scottish Independence movement had understood the concepts of ‘duty’ and ‘principle’ then the SNP would have died off years ago and been in no position to so devastatingly betray us.

    Unfortunately too many of us indulge in feel-good politics that are devoid of common sense in order to appear to hold the moral high ground. The pearl clutching I have witnessed on this site, who arguably house the hardiest of the Indy commentariat, at the mere mentioning of basic truths (at one point a few years ago it was my stance against the trans movement) would be laughable if it were not a negative indicator of the state of Scotland today.

    The Scots Independence movement has not won me over, I’ve thought and considered my way into the stances I take, but if I’d needed persuading I would have ran away from what I have just described above. I think many do. Indeed I no longer trouble myself with the political question of Scottish Independence, only the long term survival of the Scots – something that those who are distracted by the political question seem to consistently overlook.

    You cannot win a country with a message that is so rife with hypocrisy and double standards, even if it does make you feel like you are the good guy in the film.

  112. Viscount Ennui says:

    Alf Baird says:
    3 April, 2023 at 12:20 am

    “You can’t just ignore the persistent majority against Indy as if it is of no account.”

    We may have to consider why this is the case”

    Alf, surely this is critical. The principles of self-determination and democracy are inter-twined and thus independence is unattainable unless we can demonstrate that the ‘settled will’ of the Scottish populace is separation from the UK.

    I even think that the referendum question should be written in those terms.

    Where the SNP has failed is in convincing a large chunk of the electorate that Scotland is capable of self-governance and that is due to the utter incompetence of those who had the opportunity over the last decade and more to demonstrate that this is the way forward.

    The message currently appears to be, “OK, we are really bad at governing Scotland but Westminster is also very bad and wouldn’t it be nice if we could go it alone.”

    The intellectual deficit in the new cabinet is pretty stark as is the absence of anyone with genuine political gravitas. The last time we heard anyone speak with real authority in Holyrood was when Alex read-out his opening statement to the committee and left us all wondering why on earth he had been frozen-out of Scottish politics for so long.

    The only hope I have now is that HY’s cabinet of chums collapses pretty quickly and that we get a Forbes-Regan replacement service to re-build he case for independence based on good governance and pragmatism.

    Then we will have a realistic chance of converting that soft middle-ground of the electorate into a resounding YES.

  113. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Did a wee Twitter poll night before last, asking people if they’d be happy to see Alex Salmond back in the Scottish Parliament.

    The tweet had 13.4k views, 3,348 votes.

    Yes: 72.9%
    No: 27.1%

    (It was closer to 80% for most the 24 hours it was live, then the 77ers started doing their thing, ‘sex pest’, ‘sleepy cuddles’ etc, don’t know if that had much effect.)

  114. akenaton says:

    “The only hope I have now is that HY’s cabinet of chums collapses pretty quickly and that we get a Forbes-Regan replacement service to re-build he case for independence based on good governance and pragmatism.

    Then we will have a realistic chance of converting that soft middle-ground of the electorate into a resounding YES.”

    Bloody hell! That is exactly what I and two or three others were asking for during the FM contest, to be met with wholesale abuse and demands for “Instant Independence”.

    We chose the wrong horse right at the beginning in AR who was promising Independence tomorrow, while castigating Kate for being a Tory Unionist,

    Bravehearts are out of date, we need softly softly, but our mistake has given the Sturgeon factor the breath of life and if they get their social policies passed it may all be too late.

  115. Dan says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    Your post reminds of me this article from July 2020.

    The vast swings in folks’ voting intentions shows how fickle, easy to manipulate, or just plain stupid the electorate are.

  116. Alf Baird says:

    Joe @ 7:08 am

    “there is as yet no agreement on what independence actually means. This is not surprising since there is no actual agreement on who or what a Scot is.”

    The national party politicians and intellectuals’ understanding of independence remains rudimentary principally because they have never undertaken a reasoned study of colonial society.

    Postcolonial theory (Memmi, Fanon, Cesaire, Said, Hechter etc) tells us that independence is “decolonization of the mind” as much as the nation. Which means it is a psychological condition we are seeking to remedy.

    What it also tells us is that the only cure for the ‘colonial condition’ is liberation of the people. In this regard independence/decolonization is considered as ‘a matter only for the colonized people’, no-one else.

    Here the people need to better understand the nature of their oppression (which is often obscured), what independence means, and why it is necessary, which is briefly set out here:

  117. Ian Murray says:

    Will the SNP need Alba seats to retain a majority? .if the Tories and Labour get together with tactical voting, will the SNP prefer to slit their wrists and bleed out

  118. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Dan (8.13) –

    Thanks for that link.

    ‘But if he did re-enter the fray, it seems very clear from these findings that the “both votes SNP” strategy that wasted close to a million votes in 2016 would be blown clean out of the water. Holyrood would have a vast pro-indy majority, dozens of Unionist seatwarmers would be out on their ears, and – and here’s where the scenario differs from the SNP/indy majority currently being suggested by Holyrood opinion polling – the SNP would be under unprecedented pressure to actually get moving and do something about independence.’

  119. Effijy says:

    The lack of Indy support is down to misinformation or lies by the entirely owner U.K. media.
    You can’t ingest poison every day without it having effect.

    I was in a bar near a group of older guys and the mouth was giving it large about Humza the foreigner and SNP increasing the pension age.

    None of the group had a clue or tried to challenge it.
    I presume they all blame the increase on SNP now.

    I can never understand SNP inviting interviews with Glen Campbell, James Cook, Brian Taylor etc. they are all twisted Unionist making a very nice living taking the English gold.

    If they want to meet it’s to answer our questions.
    Why haven’t the BBC ran documentaries on the McCrone Report, the 6,000 square miles of Scottish maritime waters stolen by England, how much of the Vow was delivered, let’s examine how innocent Alex Salmond was targeted and attacked at a cost of millions.

    Why wouldn’t a so called national broadcaster want to make shows about these seriously important issues that everyone needs to know about?

  120. John Main says:

    @Joe 7:08

    Good post.

    Right across Europe, indigenous populations are being replaced. This is government policy in most European countries.

    The situation is worst in the ex-colonialist countries, France and Britain. Scotland, by being politically and economically linked to England, can’t and won’t escape that fate.

    It is the ultimate example of frog boiling.

    By failing to grasp this issue, indeed, by actively running away from this issue, with hands firmly across ears, shouting “la la la”, the Indy movement has cemented ultimate failure into its foundations.

    Scotland’s demographic changes actively work against Indy, but there is a more insiduous factor in play. In any future scenario where a massive change in circumstances arise, leading to a huge surge in Indy support (e.g. The not too unlikely escalation to the war, perhaps nuclear, or an acceleration in disruptive, extreme weather events), the Indy we will get will not be for the benefit of us Scots.

    It will be Indy driven by the complete breakdown of living standards in rUK (cue wild cheers from the England haters on here). By the time that happens, our own living standards will have plummeted so low there will be little that Indy will be able to do to get them back.

  121. Joe says:

    Alf, I’ll read that later today/tonight. Thank you

  122. Izzie says:

    Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?

  123. Etticus says:


    Slight correction; Brian Taylor is an avowed nationalist and was Alex Salmond’s flat mate at university.

    Glen Campbell is also a nationalist:

    Ps. I note you’ve started to swing in behind Yousaf, the draw of the newSNP cult is strong.

  124. Scotsrenewables says:

    Izzie says:
    3 April, 2023 at 9:18 am
    Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?

    Are you being sarcastic, or are you on the wrong site?

  125. Graeme George says:

    Izzie says:
    3 April, 2023 at 9:18 am

    ”Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?”

    Here’s a bit of friendly advice it really would be much better for you to say nothing and let us think your an idiot rather that post stupid comments like the above and leave us all in no doubt

  126. Ottomanboi says:

    What Is Self-Loathing?

    Self-loathing is a feeling that resembles self-hate, as it constantly pushes the idea that you’re NOT GOOD ENOUGH. As a consequence, you might feel like you don’t deserve love or that bad things happen to you for a reason.

    Self-loathing manifests itself through consistent negative thoughts which are closely tied to EXCESSIVE SELF CRITICISM. While self-criticism is a healthy aspect of life, it can start to overshadow other thought patterns when you’re going through a self-loathing phase.

    If self-loathing goes on for too long, it can lead to more severe conditions, like depression or substance abuse. Similarly, to a lesser degree, it can lead to violence toward others or feelings of inferiority.

    Often, these patterns are related to unfair comparisons we make between ourselves and other people. Due to self-loathing, you might end up feeling inferior to others by IGNORING THEIR MISTAKES and ONLY RECOGNIZING THEIR VIRTUES.

    Scots need England like a fish needs a frying pan.

  127. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?’

    This must’ve been issued as a suggested line of attack for the 77ers. It is – almost word for word – the same as many tweets appearing over the weekend.

  128. Oneliner says:

    Interesting take on Alex Salmond, above. He most certainly would be an asset to Holyrood.

    Can someone please give me/us an update on the salacious reporting which preceded his trial. This was from the usual suspects – The Sun and the Daily Record.

    He was cleared of all offences therefore the articles were inaccurate and libelous. When can we expect court action?

  129. Beauvais says:

    Izzie @9:18

    An SNP voter who wants independence for their nation could not do better than giving their second vote to Alba.

    An SNP voter who is satisfied with nothing more than the SNP running a devolved government need not vote Alba.

  130. Shug says:

    Has Humza got the balls to delay returning the stone of destiny for their coronation.

    Great world wide headlines coronation delayed till the Scots are allowed to exercise their democratic rights. Westminster behaving worse than Putin

    There is a measure of Humza’s commitment to Scotland.

    Anyone think he has the balls

  131. Mia says:

    “Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?”

    Because the SNP government are doing their uttermost best to undermine the will of SNP voters, the will and needs of women and children, and the constitution of the SNP.

    Because since Sturgeon took over in 2014, the SNP government has deliberately violated the trust of its own voters to render the SNP unelectable. That not only justifies giving the second vote to Alba or any other real pro-independence party, It justifies giving them the first vote as well.

    8 years of nothing but hubris, deliberate incompetence and toxic policies have demonstrated SNP and Greens are no pro-independence parties. They are anti-family, anti-women, pro-perverts’ and most definitely pro-union parties

  132. Izzie says:

    Some of the posters on here should stop being so touchy. I am looking to be persuaded.

  133. Breeks says:

    Izzie says:
    3 April, 2023 at 9:18 am
    Why on earth should any SNP voter use there second vote for Alba when they are doing their best to undermine the Government?

    Please go ahead and articulate what you think it is ALBA are actually doing to undermine the Government?

    Sweep aside the acrimonious insult, and the only contentious issue between ALBA and the SNP is that ALBA have a desire to keep the SNP honest and committed to Scottish Independence whilst the SNP quite clearly want Independence swept off the agenda, and be free to interpret mandates won on the back of Scottish Independence as mandates and electoral support for the SNP’s deeply unpopular and damaging Wokist extremism. It’s a con on the electorate.

    Much of the acrimony is puerile and ill informed, and peppered with defamatory insult to Alex “sleepy cuddle” Salmond… Note the sanctimonious hypocrisy of condemning Alex Salmond for a moment of weakness that was addressed at the time, yet strange how their puritan disapproval of Yousaf the adulterer, who also drives without insurance, seems to mysteriously evaporate because Yousaf is “their” man and prioritises the Perverts Charter over Scottish Independence.

    If the SNP wants to draw less criticism from ALBA, then the SNP needs to have a quiet word with itself, put it’s house in order, and rediscover it’s pro Independence mojo…. Not to mention integrity.

    The SNP is much, much closer to being the enemy of Scottish Independence than ALBA ever will be.

  134. ronald anderson says:

    lzzie 9.18 is there any Snp voters left that want INDEPENDENCE the hierarchy are opposed to Scottish INDEPENDENCE .

    ALBA are a SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE party as are ISP .

    But U carry on voting for a party instead of a country a party that continually works against the people they are supposed to represent.


  135. Joe says:


    I personally think that the natural altruism of the Scots has been turned against us to what has been termed Pathological Altruism so that we can no longer think of ourselves and our own welfare before others.

    This has been done deliberately via the major institutions in order for us to embrace our own disappearance and to attack the people (like me) who suggest we stop doing so.

    But then it has been done across the Western/European descended world – clobber us with atrocity propaganda from childhood into believing that we owe the world our very homelands and to give away the birthright of our children as we simply cannot be trusted to show in-group preference. It’s not a surprise as it is probably our biggest weakness, and its working.

    As the Bangladeshi Frank Raymond pointed out in giving an example of our vulnerable sentimentality ‘Who except white Europeans would have a funeral service for a dog?’

    One thing I will say however is this is not England or the English doing this. In fact id say that the nation of England is even further down the road to being lost forever than even the Scots.

  136. Dorothy Devine says:

    Some of you are forgetting the Rev’s instructions – ignore the troll, bypass the comment and do not respond.

  137. James Barr Gardner says:

    ALBA is the Voice of the YESSERS !

    For sure as Hell it ain’t “It’s Ma Ba’ SNP”

    End the Union and Let Scotland Prosper !


  138. Stuart MacKay says:


    Saw a couple of minutes of an Agatha Christie story on Fox whatever last night. It was set in a quintessentially, picturesque English village where the only Labour voters are the servants. The cast, however, was as diverse as you’d find on an London Tube carriage at rush hour.

    So in a sense the English are in an even worse state. They want to keep all the trappings of the past while at the same time embrace a future in which all the trappings of the past are actively discarded. They are being erased and but their history is being in aspic.

  139. Gordon Gekko says:

    In an independent sovereign nation state with its floating currency – Fiscal policy can always protect employment, incomes and business solvency if there is political will.

    In an independent sovereign nation state with its floating currency – Bank lending can NEVER always protect employment, incomes and business solvency.

    That’s the 2 choices you have government spending or bank lending and the battle of Skye Bridge let everyone know which one is more democratic and better for the local economy. A bridge built without a bank lending toll on it.

    It’s the only 2 places where money comes from. It is ALL state money as banks apply for a licence to issue state money when they lend. It is written on the front of every note you have ever received in your life. It is state money not tax payers money. There’s no such thing as tax payers money only brainwashed fools think there is. Take a £1,000 loan out at a bank read the bank notes and then try and convince somebody that’s not state money you have received.

    What’s even worse is fools think banks lend out people’s savings. When nothing could be further from the truth. As loans creates deposits.

    I’ve just invaded the Isle Of Skye with my troops. I’ve declared myself king of the Island.

    I decide to ISSUE my own free floating currency.

    So I read the ancient texts produced by a bunch of neoliberal globalist priests. That says I must tax my new citizens in the Isle of Skye so that I can get my hands on the new currency, To fill my treasury so that I can spend my new currency to build my new civilisation.

    So I say to my new citizens on the Isle Of Skye. You will pay 30% tax on your income so I can fill my treasury So I can spend.

    They’ll call me crazy and bonkers as none of them have the new currency to give to me. None of them can pay their tax.

    Ah I say.

    So using a computer keyboard and index finger I instruct my treasury and central bank to start spending the new currency into existence. I start building the new infrastructure and pay people for the goods and services I need to run Skye.

    Now my citizens can get their hands on the currency to pay their taxes. Notice I fund them they don’t fund me.

    I always spend more than I collect run budget deficits. This allows households and businesses on my Island to net save on aggregate. The more I collect in taxes the less they can net save or spend in the economy. The less I collect the more they can net save and spend in the economy.

    Taxes don’t fund me. I ISSUE the damn thing. Taxes serve a completely different purpose. They destroy money never to be seen again.

    So I rip up the ancient texts produced by a bunch of neoliberal globalist priests. Only to find a group of right wing priests believe the same nonsense with their ancient texts.

    I just laugh and wonder if they realise that I’m fully sovereign and NOT a member of the Eurozone.

    2008 is the only lesson you need if you are ideologically driven by the free market tooth fairy and believe bank lending is far superior than government spending. Instead of an elected parliament deciding how our skills and real resources are distributed. You believe it should be left to unelected, unaccountable, technocratic banks and central banks EU uber alles style.

    By Demanding increased taxes and government expenditure reduction to force a balanced budget, and then watch as the overtaxing drives the country into the ground. Scottish growth commission style driven by Brussels EU convergence programs.

    Which creates the situation that bank lending cannot replace what government is draining out of the economy in taxes. That depends upon whether there is sufficient desire to borrow and sufficient real collateral to back it. Which depends on Sufficient aggregate demand. Which will be destroyed as government spending is slashed and taxes increased just to meet an insane deficit rule of 3% of GDP.

    Eventually you end up with the pushing on a string problem.

    The whole purpose of ‘balanced budgets’ is to push more private loans and boost the finance sector income. Put a toll on the Skye bridge. That continues until there is a Minsky Moment aka 2008.

    The dynamic instability happens in the horizontal circuit ( bank lending ) when people who want to pay off loans can’t get enough currency to do so – As the vertical circuit ( government spending) has been nuetured.

    Osborne and Hammond also found this out as they chased budget surpluses and increased private loans on households and businesses. I guarentee there will be an increase in loan adverts on your TV and radio and social media algorithms. As they want loan growth to outstrip the tax drain from higher taxes. They will look to alter your behaviours. Kate Forbes with her art degree would have learned these simple facts the hard way also, as she tried to implement the free church economics of a village in the central belt.

    So why does it go horribly wrong for the neoliberal globalists and their banking friends ?

    Forbes typical arguments are at play: The narrative and framing goes like this we have heard it for 30 years.

    Government Debt is not financially sustainable – complete myth.

    crowding out effect – complete nonsense does not reflect what takes place on the government accounts.

    Deficit spending is inflationary but bank lending isn’t – How stupid to have to be to believe this crap. When the constraints are skills and real resources and not money.

    More debt now means more taxes or less spending later because the debt needs to be repaid – Hilarious right wing bullshit. The debt are our savings we hold as a government bond that we pass onto our children in our wills. Government debt is a household ” asset”

    The truth is The fiscal position of the government is mostly a REACTIVE variable because of the automatic stabilisers. That is, the government has very limited control over its finances. What drives the fiscal position of the government is The desire of other sectors of the economy to be in surplus ( net save )

    The domestic private sector households and businesses and the rest of the world want to be in surplus ( net save ) so the government must be in deficit. Why the government is almost always in deficit and if it is not another sector must be in deficit. Not everyone can record a surplus it is impossible between the issuer of the currency and users of the currency.

    As king of the Isle of Skye I have to make sure I meet that demand of how much my citizens want to net save in the currency. Bank lending is simply not up to that task. You nueter government spending and your citizens ability to net save is diminished.

    It’s called our sectoral balances.

    So when you bump into a voter who voted to remain in the EU or a fiscal conservative like Forbes. Who wants to neuter the vertical circuit ( government spending) and replace it with the horizontal circuit ( bank lending ) implement rent seeking tolls on everything via privatisation.

    Ask them why they very strongly believe that deficits should not be above 3% of GDP. That is households and businesses savings as cash should never be above 3% of GDP.

    Ask them why they very strongly believe that the debt should not be above 60% of GDP. That is households and businesses savings as government bonds should never be above 60% of GDP. When this is our pensions and savings portfolios and what we pass to our children in our wills.

    They’ll look at you like Homer Simpson. Ignorance spread across their faces and then stand back in complete horror as they describe how they are going to do it. How they are going to slash and burn your savings and take out more bank loans in aggregate.

    The fact that over 60% of voters voted remain. Fiscal conservative Forbes got so close to becoming leader shows the movement is not ready for independence. Probably a good thing it is on the back burner for a few years. It needs cleansed of this poison and a complete reset.

  140. Ottomanboi says:

    Sentimentality, pseudo altruism, guilt and fake humanitarianism are the stuff of globalist think.
    What the agents aka politicians of globalist ideology screw up, the people are expected to pay for.
    Contemporary «democracy» is in no fit state. When things are bad the demos may not be equipped or even prepared to take the necessary steps to address the problem.
    Indeed «the problem» might not even be visible to many of them.
    Scotland is certainly not unique.

  141. Confused says:

    Nice one Gordon Gekko, King of Skye!

    – except you should be having your money created by the private banks, and letting them charge you interest for it.

    a lone gunman just shot you

  142. Iain mhor says:

    If Holyrood didn’t exist, if there was no Devolution, how would Scotland progress to Independence? Answers on a postcard.
    The best answer might win a GE vote, because the Holyrood Devo route is dead.

    As for voting for ALBA – well they’ll also have to have a totally new message, clean shiny, simple.

    *Hint – Not having your policy buried in a link at the bottom of your webpage would be a start.

    You don’t begin with: ‘Sign here’ – You start by making people say: ‘Sounds great! Where do I sign?’

    Does anyone at ALBA know how modern media engagement works? We are a generation with the shortest attention span in history.
    I’m there for the content – Ask me to hit like and subscribe, subject me to a word from our sponsor, other stuff coming up, and what happened last week, before having to click something yet again like some kind of animal – only gets one response: “Next”

    When you have spent decades building up an Independence party, only to see it crash, and burn, you’re in no tearing hurry to follow the same path without scrutinising it with an intense scrute.

    The day every political entity who would see Scotland independent get their ducks in a row collectively, and tactically organise to go for the jugular – is the day I open the stoorie kist, and don the rusty campaign armour. Not a day before.

    If they don’t, or won’t then they aren’t serious. One banner, one goal, many voices.

    There are a horde of disparate parties who can do this when the fiery cross goes around, and they raise nary an eyebrow. Their banner is Union.

  143. Gordon Gekko says:

    As king of the Isle of Skye I have to make sure I meet that demand of how much my citizens want to net save in the currency. Bank lending is simply not up to that task. You nueter government spending and your citizens ability to net save is diminished.

    I run a balanced budget I spend £1 billion into the Isle of Skye and I tax out and destroy £1 billion out of the Isle Of Skye.

    My budget is balanced.

    a) How much can citizens of the Isle of Skye ” save ” on aggregate ?

    b) How much can the citizens of the Isle of Skye ” spend ” on aggregate ?

    I employ Kate Forbes as my finance minister on the Isle of Skye and Kate Forbes tries to run a budget surplus. She’s that stupid she thinks a budget surplus gives her more money to spend. That increases what she can create at will from thin air using an index finger and a computer keyboard.

    Kate spends £1 billion into the Isle of Skye and taxes out and destroys £1.5 billion out of the Isle Of Skye.

    Her budget is in surplus by £ 0.5 billion

    a) How much can citizens of the Isle of Skye now ” save ” on aggregate ?

    b) How much can the citizens of the Isle of Skye now ” spend ” on aggregate ?

    I sack her quickly as she doesn’t meet the net saving desires or spending desires of my citizens. The sales of goods and services plummet. She’s an idiot and she can’t even spend the £O.5 billion she collected as taxes. As they were destroyed as the account they ended up in was reset to zero for the beginning of the next day. So my central bank via the overnight interbank market could hit its overnight interest rate.

    If she wanted to spend another £0.5 billion all she had to do was use her index finger and a computer keyboard and create it from thin air. Extra Taxes were not needed as they do not raise revenue. They destroy money and take it out of the economy.

    So to meet my citizens net savings and spending desires I run a budget deficit. That all the EU uber alles crowd and fiscal conservatives say you must never do.

    I spend £1 billion into the Isle of Skye and I tax out and destroy £ 300 million out of the Isle Of Skye.

    My budget is in deficit of £700 million

    a) How much can citizens of the Isle of Skye now ” save ” on aggregate ?

    b) How much can the citizens of the Isle of Skye now ” spend ” on aggregate ?

    My deficit is their surplus to the penny. My red ink is their black ink. Sales of goods and services rise, employment rises, and I introduce a Job Guarantee anybody who wants a job can have one at a living wage with a decent pension and holiday pay. That makes the private sector compete for Labour for the first time in 60 years. That dramatically increases productivity and lifts all boats. Business can now pay off Labour and replace them with machines. As the job guarentee will now catch these people giving them the chance to learn new skills in full time employment. Keeping demand high and the economy at full employment.

    My only constraints are skills and real resources. As long as I don’t overspend those constraints inflation will remain low.

    The Job Guarantee is an advanced auto-stabiliser which implements ‘Spatial Keynesianism’. ‘Spatial Keynesianism’ is just a fancy way of saying that spending happens in the locations that need it. More in some areas and less in others depending upon the level of other activity at the time.

    Which injects additional spending into the economy where it is needed at precisely the right amount?—?all completely automatically. “Precisely the right amount” means that it is withdrawn progressively and spatially as private economic activity increases. People hired away from the Job Guarantee start being paid with private funds, not public funds, so you get a swap of spending power, rather than an increase.

    Over the cycle people come on and off the Job Guarantee which grows and shrinks government spending automatically. All without any politicians or central bank ‘experts’ making any discretionary changes. Keeping inflation low.

    Now everybody wants to move to Skye.

    No open borders, no freedom of movement on my Island. I want productivity to remain high. So I will introduce a skills based immigration policy. Like every other sane nation on the planet who has implemented one.

    Only people with the skills I need will be allowed to enter. In return I will send the skills their country needs in exchange.

    My low skilled will not be competing with other countries low skilled for a job in my country. Driving wages down in my country that will never happen.

    My exports are the cost of my imports. So I will only export to get the imports that I need. The real resources I don’t have myself. There will be no excess exporting on my island.

    Pretty much everything else will look after itself.

  144. Chas says:


    From time to time there is some absolute mince posted on Wings.
    Your effort is up there with the best of them. Congratulations but are you ok? Phone your Doctor.

  145. Gordon Gekko says:


    All completely 100% factual using the assets and liabilities of the UK government balance sheets.

    Not my fault you haven’t even looked at it once in your life Chas and believe the nonsense spouted out of your TV now is it ? The tax payer money myth, we’ve ran out of money myth, the government budget is like that of a household myth, government debt is like household debt myth etc, etc.

    Go on have a go Chas and using the ACTUAL government balance sheet in the link provided. Not the propaganda spouted from your TV. Highlight using the ACTUAL government balance sheet where I lie about anything.

    I bet you can’t. Your doctor won’t help you either. Like I said earlier and thanks for private by my point. People like you Chas are not ready for independence as you have no understanding about money and how it works in the real world.

    Believing your TV and the mugs that are on it like Andrew Neil who push the propaganda of the tax payer money myth, we’ve ran out of money myth, the government budget is like that of a household myth, government debt is like household debt myth etc, etc.

    Always start from the wrong starting point that does not reflect the government balance sheets I have provided. Which are 100% factual and thus always come up with the wrong solutions.

    So using the ACTUAL government and central bank accounts from the real world above. Show me using the government balance sheets above. How on earth I am lying to you ?

    Instead of talking complete and utter shite. Making stuff up in your head because I have simply destroyed your brainwashed world view of how you were potty trained by the likes of Andrew Neil over decades and tricked to believe how it works in a fantasy right wing world of nonsense.

  146. ronald anderson says:

    Gordon Gekko 2.18

    You remind me of that Faux accountant Kevin Hague that used to occupy this page with his nonsense F OFF

  147. Chas says:


    I really should not respond to the likes of you but………. ONE TIME ONLY.

    I have degrees in Economics and Accountancy and worked in finance for 35 years, ultimately at a very senior level.

    Your posts hardly make literal sense and at best, are the ramblings of a child. Your grasp of financial and economic models are out of a comic. The only thing I watch on tv is sport however I do read extensively.

    Are there many world financial/economic leaders beating a path to your door?

    The dosage of your medication requires an increase and I assume the care home staff have forgotten to lock the computer room again.

  148. Confused says:

    conventional orthodoxy in economics means doing the same crap that caused the disaster the last time repeatedly; in doing so you need to bailout the banks and impose austerity on the people, who are an infinite pain sponge which can be squeezed indefinitely

    “unconventional” is anything else; read guys like Steve Keen, Michael Hudson, Austin Fitts, Michael Jones (Barren Metal) – but no one is meant to know “other ways” are possible and a process of mystification ensues. Most people think “the money” is backed by gold in the Bank of England. (Between themselves bankers settle in gold bullion – they aren’t interested in your funny money paper bollocks you printed up for the cost of the ink – that crap is just for the people.)

    monetary reform is dangerous : the ultimate lesson from all of history is


    jesus (threw moneylenders out of the temple, crucified)

    lincoln (wouldn’t honour war loans at face value, shot by a lone gunman, acting alone, who happened to be a freemason)

    huey long (fought the bankers; shot by a … lone gunman)

    jfk (audit the fed, go back to the silver dollar; shot by lone gunman 4 times with 3 bullets)

    gaddafi (pan african investment bank, a gold backed currency; knife up the arse)

    hitler (threw out bankers, used hyperinflation to wipe out national debt, used a works-backed currency, fought 3 mighty empires to a standstill for a period of years, shot himself, a lone gunman of sorts)

    wilson (tried to reform the city, to have strategic planning ministry like Japan; almost coup de tatted, jumped before he was pushed)

    there are probably more examples from ancient egypt, babylon and rome.

    it can be right dangerous, “getting clever ideas”. And this is yet another hurdle we face, suppose we did it, got there – independence YAY! – well, 5 minutes after the party our leaders will find themselves in a room with a bunch of very high end “suits” – who will say : what you want to do is -this- this and this … and if our leaders then are the shower of incompetents they currently are, they will just agree to everything, total capitulation. Anything bankers don’t like is referred to as “marxist shit” – this includes such things as land reform, corporate taxes, renegotiating oil and gas contracts, banking regulations and even, making rich people pay their taxes.

    It is the city of london which is our real enemy, it is the UK deep state, westminster full of clerks and teaboys (- kwarteng and truss! they transgressed once, it was over) operating outside of UK law, in their own pirate haven. They are a sophisticated and dangerous enemy.

    Dante put the sodomites and usurers (archaic) – paedos and bankers (modern) in the 8th circle of Hell, the SNP are in the 9th with the tr4itors, worst of all, judas.

  149. willie says:

    Interesting summary confused at 2.17am.

    Brings into focus the attempted stich up of Alex Salmond. Brings into focus the death of nationalist lawyer Willie Macrae who hours after threatening to expose the Thatcher government ( for an alleged paedophile ring ) ended up shot, show how similar tricks happening here.

    And of course, irrespective of what you think of Donal Trump, his arrest today is an example of how, like Alex Salmond, the judicial system can be weaponised to destroy political opponents.

    But Trump is not down and out and of course neither is Alex Salmond.

  150. Gordon Gekko says:


    I doubt anything that you have said. Otherwise you would use the ACTUAL government accounts to prove me wrong. Yet, here we are and you can’t do it.

    The fact that You can’t even point to the government accounts and show where I am lying speaks volumes.

    You see I know for a fact working in banking myself as a premium investment consultant for one of the large banks. That in your job you never even looked at the government accounts once in your life. Nobody in banking does.

    You even lie to those who work in the bank and the public and tell your employees that banks loan out savings. When loans create deposits.

    As for your economics degree it’s not worth the paper it is written on. You were taught gold standard, fixed exchange rate myths. From a Greg mankwi textbook that doesn’t reflect the real world.

    Here’s a guy now Jan Hatzius Goldman Sachs top economist what does he have to say about it Chas ?

    Oh look Chas, Jan, Goldman’s top economist agrees 100% with me.

    So Please jog on and go and play with your Greg Mankwi childrens toys and leave the serious stuff to the adults. You were the one taught nonsense out of a comic book.

    This is why Jan Hatzius and myself can see it but you can’t.

    I would debate you on any stage in Scotland Chas and defeat you within minutes using your own GROUPTHINK against you. The difference between myself and Jan Hatzius and yourself. Is we could very easily point to the ACTUAL government accounts and show where your GROUPTHINK breaks down. When asked to do the same you would fail miserably.I’ve asked you twice now and you can’t do it. Your IQ and Greg Mankwi brainwashing is quite simply not up to the task.

  151. Gordon Gekko says:


    The ONS – The office of national statistics produce the real data for the UK sectoral balances.

    What did you call the real data again. Comic book accounting or did I need to see a doctor about the real data and the facts.The real data Jan Hatzius uses.

    You are one big fraud Chas, a liar or a fool. I will go with fool because you actually believe the GROUPTHINK you have been brainwashed with. A living specimen that shows the true power of propaganda and neoliberal rubbish taught in a class room.

    I’ve met hundreds of you in banking Chas when I worked as premium investment consultant. Who all suffer from the same GROUPTHINK.

    You’ve done very well at secondary school and then go to university and shine through and achieve academic progress. The selction process as you go through university is that by the time your at the end of your undergraduate years. The bright sparks go through their post graduate studies and a PHD and they get an academic job the creme da le creme.

    So you’ve invested a lot of your early years to get this PHD to get into the academy. With economics you end up with a very defined set of work tools and foregone a lot of income to get to this stage.

    Not many academics become top line researchers most of them become text book pushers. So by the age of 45 you’ve risen to a certain rank in the academy and normally that’s the end of your progression. Good researchers can move up further and get a chair and get to be called a professor. Where a lot of people have reached their ceiling and pump out stuff from a textbook that the publishers brings around every year. Fill up your time as an administrator or a teacher.

    The end of life syndrome approaches and all you are waiting for then is to retire on your pension and live the life and hope your health holds. So why on earth at that point would these people abandon their life’s work and admit that large parts of it are wrong. What’s the motivation for that. Particulary when you are in a group that have incredibly rigid rules with respect to promotion, with respect to asigning status, with respect to getting any publications or research money. In a very disciplined community in economics.

    You’ve learned to play the game and jump through hoops along the way. You’ve learned not to rock the boat. You’ve reached your career progression and waiting for your retirement.

    To come out then and say alot of the textbook pushing has been wrong is to defy your scholastic community. Stop the brightest when they are young from getting promotion, publications and research money. The group membership becomes your priority and when new imperical evidence presents itself to show the textbook pushing has been nonsensical. They’ll forego the oppertunity of a revision of their ideas as maintaining membership and status within the group is more important.

    Groups work out all sort of ways to behave like that. When anomolies come in from the real world they revise history. They rewrite history to reflect the group.

    It’s foundational and social psychology of group behaviour. Eventually when some rebels do come along the Paradigm collapses.

    So a department at UCL in London decided to take it further Chas. They studied the ACTUAL government accounts for the first time in their history. To try and disprove what MMT economists were saying. You know that comic book stuff in your head.

    So after a year of study did UCL disprove what MMT economists were saying Chas ?

    Well take a look at their findings Chas.

  152. Gordon Gekko says:


    Lars P Syll is an economist who was responsible for keeping his own country out of the Euro. The voters should get down on their knees and thank him everyday for that triumph.

    You should take a page out of Paul Krugman ‘s book and finally admit your GROUPTHINK was wrong. On so many different levels. His models didn’t even have banking in them. Fell for the tax payer money myth as didn’t even look at the government accounts.

  153. Joe says:

    @Alf Baird

    I’ve read the Theoretical Case For Scottish Independence and its probably the best summary of the situation I’ve seen and explains a lot of what I think more coherently than I have been able to.

    I do have more to say about it but not the time right now, as it involves more than just my normal quickly typed splurge of thoughts.

  154. Paul Murray says:

    With no magnanimity from NS at the last Holyrood elections irt SNP1 Alba 2 in the regions where an SNP 2 is/was wasted, will the new FM embrace Alba and seek a coalition?

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