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Wings Over Scotland

What you didn’t read this week

Posted on March 06, 2014 by

Remember about ten months ago, when there was a great big five-alarm hoo-ha in the Scottish media about pensions, based on the EU law that pension schemes operating across national borders had to be fully-funded at all times, which we were told would cause all sorts of dreadful chaos if Scotland was independent?


We ask because the Scottish media has now had two full days to pick up on a story which appeared on the website of The Actuary magazine this week, but oddly hasn’t.

“The European Union could soon remove one of the biggest barriers to defined benefit pension plans operating in more than one member state, according to actuaries Towers Watson.

EU regulations which demand that DB plans be ‘fully funded at all times’ are a major obstacle to cross-border pension provision. But the European Commission’s proposal for a revised Pensions Directive – to be published in the next two months – could see this requirement swept away, making it easier for pensions to operate across border, Towers Watson said.”

Towers Watson’s own website had on Tuesday already offered some more detail on the specific ramifications of the expected change in the context of independence:

“The ‘fully funded at all times’ requirement for cross-border defined benefit plans has come to the fore during the Scottish independence referendum campaign. The fear is that, if an independent Scotland is a member of the EU, this would turn many defined benefit plans into cross-border plans and bring the ‘fully funded at all times’ rule into play. Unless these plans were split, employers could then have to pay off deficits much more quickly.

Paul Kelly said: ‘Although its days are numbered, the ‘fully funded at all times’ rule is likely still to apply in March 2016, which is the proposed date for Scottish separation from the UK in the event of a ‘yes’ vote. There is nothing to stop the Commission from proposing the change very soon, but it will take time to bring the new Directive into force.'”

So a word of caution there. But we’re still two YEARS from the proposed date of independence, and that seems quite a lot of time to get everything sorted out in. At the very least, it’s hard to see the old rules being applied officiously to an independent Scotland even as they’re in the final stages of the process of being scrapped – it would clearly be in absolutely nobody’s interests to be inflexible about it.

(Alternatively, of course, the No campaign continues to insist that Scotland wouldn’t actually be a member of the EU by then anyway, so its laws would be irrelevant.)

With the papers today full of Gordon Brown’s plans to tour Scotland putting the frighteners on pensioners, we look forward to the Scottish media’s front-page reporting of this highly significant development, which we’re sure will be coming along at any moment now. They’ve probably just been busy.

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147 to “What you didn’t read this week”

  1. Jamie Arriere says:

    Wow, if this materialises in the next two months as stated, this blows the whole pension scare out of the water! And its not as if Westminster should oppose it either as it is a huge carrot for the City of London (although when have logic & Westminster coincided recently)

    Great eagle-eyed work, Rev!!

  2. handclapping says:

    Ah but. If Scotland goes indep, sorry, seperates then it will have much higher interest rates so you use them to value the liabilities instead of the BoE QE rates and instantly the schemes are fully funded again!

    Its you won’t be in the EU but have to use the Euro time again

  3. galamcennalath says:

    Gordon Brown is certainly the man with experience of messing pensioners around!

    It will surprise me if the real pensions story highlighted above gets much coverage in the NaeSayer media. Leopards and spots, they won’t change now.

  4. Gillie says:

    I see also Pro-unionist businesses Mackies and Baxters have both seen their profits tumble over the past year.

    My one person campaign to keep away from Baxters cock-a-leekie soup and Mackies haggis and cracked-black-pepper crisps is paying dividends.

  5. Doug Daniel says:

    “the proposed date for Scottish separation from the UK” – I’m guessing Paul Kelly isn’t a huge proponent of Scottish independence, then?

    Another scare story bites the dust. What’s next?

  6. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “My one person campaign to keep away from Baxters cock-a-leekie soup and Mackies haggis and cracked-black-pepper crisps is paying dividends.”

    We HAVE to win, because boycotting Mackies’ crisps and ice-cream is killing me.

  7. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Great eagle-eyed work, Rev!!”

    As ever, alert readers are largely responsible.

  8. Strange having to fill the name,email,and website in everytime I make a comment.Aye well I notice more and more silly stuff so I wrote to the express and record,and here is what I wrote;Sir,it was with a wry smile and a shake of my head,that I read the instalment of project fear.The first thought that our Scottish banks will have to move to London,to continue with their business,as per the EU directive,my first thought was to laugh and then cam some anger.To explain,if according to Westminster Scotland will be a new state (the oldest country in the union) and thus not be a member of the esteemed European Union,why do we have to follow the move the banks directive,another lie? or contempt for us Scots.Is this just another bit of “they are too stupid to work it out” drivel that we get drip fed.For the sake of Scotland give us the truth,no more lies please

  9. galamcennalath says:

    Mackies and Baxters, I didn’t know that. I for one certainly wouldn’t buy products from Scottish companies standing in the way of national progress. Is there a list of openly no backers somewhere?

  10. Tom says:

    Am I wrong in thinking that the cross border pension funding gap is currently shrinking as the value of equities continues to balloon in proportion to actula money in the bank? In other words, currently underfunded private pension schemes will be getting richer and the shortfall diminishing.

  11. Murray McCallum says:

    What a great spot.

    No excuse for any MSM journalist and/or interviewer to not raise this when being lectured by Darling, Brown, etc. they can interrupt the rehearsed speech and make this point.

    I also hope the focus doesn’t go away from companies actually funding their pensions properly.

  12. Misteralz says:

    Not bought a Mackies

  13. Appleby says:

    Strangely under reported once again.

    But are we surprised by this point? When Willie Walsh’s positive comments are swept under the carpet and any scraps negativity trumpeted from the state media and print press non stop to tell us we’re naughty children again?

    It’ll be kept buried unless something forces their hand on this sadly. The truth of this is a tool that can be used in future debate though and perhaps it’ll get out at a trickle through the waves of fear, uncertainty and doubt. It also bodes well for the future ease of transition for Scotland post-independence.

  14. Greannach says:

    Interesting article, but even more interesting is that the mothballs are being removed from everyone’s favourite ex-PM, Gordon Brown, the new secret wonder weapon of the No Better Together UKOKs. He certainly puts the frighteners on me when he does his weird smile at inappropriate times, like when a youth in a hoodie announces that he has just polished off a litre of Buckfast or an elderly lady with a poodle declares her addiction to hard-core online porn. Brown knows he should react, because he’s seen humans doing it. He just isn’t sure which reaction is appropriate: smiling, crying, giggling, sneezing or peeing himself.

  15. Donald says:

    Just told Mackie’s I’ve stopped buying their stuff.That feels better. Kinda fits in with lent too, amn’t I a good wee guy.

  16. Appleby says:


    Mackies’ ice-cream

    The last bastion of supermarket ice cream free of the hated vanilla plague.

  17. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Strangely under reported once again.”

    If by “under” you mean “not at all”. I can’t find a word about it anywhere other than websites within the actuarial profession.

  18. an_observer says:

    Yes the EU is bound to implement this in time because

  19. dmw42 says:

    Speaking of ‘under reported’, and apoligies if posted by someone else, but I haven’t seen the link between Shell’s Ben van Beurden and Vitol’s Ian Taylor reported.

    After all, its only a fornight since the two done a deal worth £1.6bn for Shell’s Australian refinery.

    Probably just coincidence though.

  20. SquareHaggis says:

    Shame aboot the haggis.

    Seems to be an awffy lot o them in the fridge at Tesco since the Burns nicht boycott. Puir forlorn wee craiturs. Looks like the same thing’s happenin wi Baxters scotch broth, 50p a tin or 3 for a (non existent) poond.

    They’ll be hard pushed tae shift that lot, even through a foodbank.

  21. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The last bastion of supermarket ice cream free of the hated vanilla plague.”

    Exactly. It’s bloody lovely, but sod ’em if they want to deny democracy to my country.

  22. G H Graham says:

    The idea that pensions are vulnerable exclusively in an independent Scotland is laughable.

    Listen up you Unionist pensioners who think Gordon (End of boom & bust) Brown is an idol rather than just idle.

    Cash Gordon was in Fife recently scaring pensioners with more doom & gloom stories. It was him that devalued your pensions by £100 to £150 billion in 1997 when he scrapped the tax relief on your pension dividends. You must remember that cos it partly explains why you cant afford to put the heating on!

    Anyway, the Con/Dems & Labour (who can tell them apart these days, eh?) are considering lowering the rate at which you can extract a lump sum from your pension, tax free, from 25% to 20%.

    The current government is slaking its thirst on a report issued by the Pensions Policy Institute which could lead to billions in cost savings for the government. That’s code for pensioners losing more money by the way.

    If you are not too busy checking your mail for your free Parker Pen from Cilla Black, take time out from feeding the pigeons and read this …

    That’s a report that getting support from all the Unionist Parties. You know, the ones that love telling you that you’re better off staying in the UK.

    Funny old world isn’t it?

  23. MajorBloodnok says:

    Surely that Herald article headline should read:

    “Pensions fearbomb time if Scots back independence.”

    It’s pithy, to the point and infinitely reuseable (note sell-by date 19 Sept 2014).

    By the way, I saw a boxed-out letter in the Scotsman today lambasting Alex Salmond for referring to BT’s ‘Dambuster’ strategy, assuming AS had used the term first and accusing him of disrespecting Guy Gibson and his dog, er, Trigger.

  24. Tamson says:

    Regarding Baxter’s and Mackie’s, I’m pretty sure Tunnock’s are Unionist too.


  25. jon esquierdo says:

    I wonder if Gordon Brown will be asked by the media about the the tax he evaded paying when he pockets £10,000 weekly in expenses tax free from his so called charity. The man should be in court for tax evasion

  26. alexicon says:

    Tunnock’s [tea cakes] too.
    I see they’ve ended up in the cheap bins in Wilkinsons.
    I hear Barclay’s is about to join the Independence fray with an announcement soon, no doubt at the bequest of DC.
    Isn’t it about time we all wrote to our banks warning them that if they play Cameron’s game of speaking out about Scotland’s Independence we will take our business elsewhere?

  27. Papadox says:

    MajorBloodnok says:

    Sounded a bit like trigger my man, well done

  28. heedtracker says:

    “But we’re still two YEARS from the proposed date of independence,” 2 years:-(

  29. SquareHaggis says:

    A T-Shirt with 10 debunking myths was spotted @ centre of the front row of a local information evening last night.
    As one of the speakers progressed her way through half a dozen scare stories I was amazed to see that 90% of the audience was staring at this guys back and reading for themselves the truth of these matters as the lies were being trotted out from the stage.

    Subtle, but effective.
    At the end there was a lot of discussion about said T-Shirt, the wearer of whom had mysteriously disappeared.

    Would this possibly be something we could purchase via wings?

  30. john king says:

    o/t heard on radio 4 news @ 15.00
    A nuclear sub has had a radiation leak in Scottish waters, Hammond has been reassuring parliament there’s nothing to see here move along,
    end of bullitin.

  31. Morag says:

    I crumbled and bought half a dozen tins of Baxter’s soup. I feel bad now.

    Pensions are in a terrible place right now. People are living longer and so annuities have to go down for that reason. However, the main culprit is the interest rates. With the rate so ridiculously low, how can any pension fund yield an income?

    It used to be, we saved capital into our pension fund, and then we expected to live primarily on the interest from it. The capital would deplete slowly. Now, though, with interest rates on the floor, we’re in effect having to save the capital we require to live on in retirement. It’s frankly impossible. It’s impossible even in a decent job, and doubly impossible for a small business owner or someone on low pay or a zero hours contract.

    At the same time our state pension has eroded in value, currently being one of the lowest in Europe. And they’re talking about means-testing it, so that anyone who has managed to scrape together enough of a private pension to avoid absolute penury will lose out despite a lifetime’s NI payments.

    UK pension funds scam off a far larger proportion of investors’ cash than in other EU countries. And then there’s Brown’s raid in the 1990s. When he did that my business partner said he was toast because people wouldn’t stand for it. I said forget it, hardly anybody will realise what he’s done for another 20 years by which time he’ll be just another retired eminence grise.

    I’m quite well off by most standards, with a decent pension pot, and I’m scared to retire. Where does that leave the average joe? I pray for interest rates to go up, but people tell me the entire country will collapse if they do. Where do we turn?

  32. Appleby says:


    You’re right again. Can’t see it anywhere else in the MSM. It’s like it doesn’t exist. Shades of soviet style media. Ironic, considering the accusations of dictatorship style behaviour by the opposition.

    It’s killing me too to avoid that ice cream, but I get my treats at wee local ice cream places that do take away tubs instead, so it’s probably doing the economy more good anyway. 😉

    Grahams dairy makes some nice stuff these days. I hope he hasn’t decided to rail against independence too?

    Mackie’s crisps are nice, but at least there are supermarket alternatives for it. If you like good crunchy crisps then I can totally recommend the Lidl ones. Crunchiest and thickest crisps I’ve had and they do a nice lightly salted if you just like to taste the potato or you can get all sorts of flavours. The prices are around what the brands would charce on sale and at least Lidl have “PROUD TO SERVE SOCTLAND” etc. and Scottish stuff in all over the place, rather than making me feel like a secondary concern in my own country like other shops and organisations manage to do. I get the feeling they certainly won’t be threatening to up sticks and leave after a Yes vote.

  33. Jean says:

    I think several of us are boycotting Mackies, Tunnocks and Baxters…must be if their profits are down. I wonder if they’ll make the link?

  34. SquareHaggis says:

    Another one mooted was a poster to get the boozers in to vote, there’s a lot of them roond here and would need to be pished to go near a polling station let alone make a decision.


    Nippy sweetie and X = Y

  35. muttley79 says:

    When you see poor old Magnus Gardham’s name in a column about independence, you just know what is coming next.. 😀 😀 Him and Cochrane are battling it out to see who is the biggest Brit Nat in the MSM. A sterling and most competitive competition it is.

    On a much more serious note, RIP to Professor Ailsa McKay. A very sad loss for her family and friends, and for a politically progressive Scotland.

  36. Appleby says:


    It wouldn’t surprise me if there were a good few of us. Probably most won’t go that far or at least not conciously? Be nice to think it might hit home that we’re voting with our wallets too. It’s the best thing we can do as customers. If someone wants to annoy and insult me or support some utter pish from Westminster and BT telling me I’m too poor, too wee and too stupid I’m not going to go out of my way to give them money.

  37. SquareHaggis says:

    I’d certainly wear a GORDON is a MORON T-Shirt to a Broon sideshow.
    Front row, low back chair,

  38. Aucheorn says:

    Grahams Dairy is owned by Mullers of Germany

  39. Morag says:

    In terms of naked self-interest, one of the reasons I want a Yes vote is the conviction that we can’t do worse than this present shower, who have wrecked the economy with their boys’ games. With someone like John Swinney in charge I have more hope that I won’t be forced to sell my house to feed myself when I’m 80.

  40. mato21 says:


    The news we’ve all been waiting for

    Harry the prince is organizing Olympic style games for disabled servicemen/women for mid September

    Another chance to wave your flags folks

  41. A nonnie muss says:

    I thought Muller owned the cowprint one. I’ve stopped buying their stuff since they started plastering the butcher’s apron on it.

  42. liz says:

    Yes boycotting, Mackies, Baxters, Tunnocks and Sainsbury’s – the latter cos they have been the only one not to have backed down over scare prices.

    Gordon Brown should be ashamed of himself lying to pensioners to scare them into voting no.

    And he used to give us all this pish about ‘son of the manse’ – hell mend him.

    Good idea to have leaflets to give out, outside his venues with the truth about benefits – I’m up for it if we want to organise dates and times.

  43. Jill P says:

    Just completed latest Independence survey from Survation. The usual “How will you vote?” and “Would this make you more or less likely to vote yes or no?”

    I’ve taken to clicking on all Panelbase and Survation polls and closing if it’s not relevant. I had so many I was ignoring them until I discovered I was missing #indyref ones.

  44. jingly jangly says:

    Good an article about pensions, gives me an excuse to copy the letter my mate got from the pensions dept last year.

    Maybe we should all write to them and ask whats going to happen to the pension if Scotland seperates, being that we have paid into the UK for for most of our working lives!!!

    Re Guy Gibson’s dug, it wusnae the poor dugs fault, poor thing got run doon when the raid’s were in progress, and it didn’t ask to get named after a country in Africa.

    Re Baxters,Mackie and Tunnocks, not bought any of them for a couple of years now, Lidl and Aldi do as good soups and biscuits as lot cheaper and Arran Dairies does better Ice Cream and the MD is a Yesser!!!

    Now to that letter, share and copy and write to the Work and Pensions Department asking whats going to happen to your pension if the nasty separists get there way in Sept.
    Eh I cant seem to copy and paste as its scanned as a jpg, I converted to png but same, will email it to the Rev and see if he can post it, its important to counter Bitter Together lies.

  45. Alfresco Dent says:

    Best you keep away from the ready-made sandwich counter at your local Sainsbury’s then. You have been warned.

  46. SquareHaggis says:

    Anotheir wee O/T snippet;

    When Osbourne was affshore a few moons ago for his well publicised flying visit an enterprising pipeyard worker took the liberty of giving him a welcome message by writing the words “Geordie is c***” along a length of 24inch casing.

    Apparently it was lying on the deck upon that very day and could be seen by incoming choppers. The evidence is probably 2000 ft below sea level and preserved for eternity.

  47. The Man in the Jar says:

    Regarding Mackies ice cream.

    “Exactly. It’s bloody lovely, but sod ‘em if they want to deny democracy to my country.”

    I am the same with Tunnocks tea cakes. However as I was born and bred in Uddingston. Therefore I am genetically programed to eat them. (My excuse and sticking to it!) I have cut down though. 🙂

  48. Oneironaut says:

    Hmm, never actually tried Mackies ice cream, though the local Lidl here in Stevenston as well as the supermarkets in Saltcoats has plenty of it on offer, so I’ve been tempted before. But I really prefer Haagen-Dazs Belgian chocolate, ridiculously expensive as it is…

    Didn’t actually know Mackies were pro-Unionist though.
    Anyone have a list of the No supporters out there?

  49. Robert Louis says:

    Just picking up on the Mackies thing from earlier, the aspect which really irritates me, is this slavish devotion to the ‘UK’, rather than Scotland.

    As is my democratic right, I stopped buying Tunnocks(which I really miss), Baxters and Mackies, the moment each respective business let it be known what they really thought of Scotland. I also stopped shopping in Sainsburys when they introduced cans of soup, labelled British Scotch Broth’.

    What’s next, ‘British Scotch Whisky’? FFS.

    As others have pointed out before, LIDL is a good bet for finding none of this ‘Britishness’ propaganda, and there are other good Scottish ice cream manufacturers, without the anti independence politics.

  50. bunter says:

    Christina McKelvie just posted that Osborne’s father in law is head of Shell and has links to BP?

  51. westie7 says:

    “Square Haggis”

    Just finished a batch of Casing at a certain Tube Works in Scotland today, some guys in there if they had their way would be marking up a whole bunch similar

  52. mato21 says:

    Am I wrong in thinking pensions being paid at the time of Indy will be continued to be paid from Westminster since that is who got the contributions

    After all if I were to go off to sunny Spain tomorrow my pension would be paid to me there

    Can anyone confirm this? It would put a lot of elderly peoples mind at peace who are worrying about their state pension

    I would like to be sure of my facts before I tell folk this who bring it up

  53. TJenny says:

    O/T, but maybe not. Just caught the end of an article on BBC rolling news, about the FSA regulating crowd funding! Seemed to mention loans though, so perhaps not relevant to WoS?

    Anyone else hear it?

  54. Appleby says:

    I just hope we remember which brands said what during all this run up when they quickly pretend otherwise.

  55. heraldnomore says:

    I’ll second the shout for Arran ice cream; stocked in Aldi now too. Delicious stuff, and delighted to hear he’s on-side, which makes it all the sweeter

  56. TJenny says:

    Re the anti-Scottish manufacturers mentioned, I’ve never bought Mackies but used to buy Baxters and Tunnocks, now no more. Giving up the tea cakes and snowballs was hard, but on the upside, it’s done wonders for the figure,

    Maybe that’s why oor Eck has lost all his weight, he too is on the Independence Diet and gave up on the Tunnocks.

  57. SquareHaggis says:

    @westie 7

    Now, now I dinna want tae be gein you guys any ideas.
    Could end up wi an affshore Banksy-man 😀

  58. Tattie-bogle says:

    Never buy Tea cakes anymore but if you are a guest in someones home it would rude to say no 🙂

  59. ronnie anderson says:

    Rev,just forwarded a E mail to You from Kate Watson

    operations director of BT. I promise You at no time did I

    contemplate up any of those positions, as you will see there

    is no position for a Comic or Loony in residence all those

    positions have been filled. You and the Rest of the Wingers

    Family, will have to grin & bear me a long time yet, am gone

    naewhere soon. BTW I was in Sth GEN Hosp on Tues,seeing the

    Neurologist ( re the Lumbar puncture they did ) Diagnosis is

    I am suffering from ,{ wait for it } Anxiety — Depression ,

    I wobble like a duck, and I though I was speaking to a Quack

    ( I have every respect for the Medical Profession

    ( my Daughter deals every day with people with Mental

    disorders ) even she was killing herself laughing, so 2nd

    opinion from the Neurosurgeon,another few months wait

    for a appointment.

  60. SquareHaggis says:

    Breathin exercises Ronnie

    IN 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

    OUT same

  61. SquareHaggis says:

    Repeat and relax

  62. caz-m says:


    Came across this TV station buried deep in amongst all my Sky channels. Might be worth contacting to see what they say.

    It’s called LBP.TV.

    They are an Independent TV company based I London. They are looking for up and coming film and documentary makers to contact them with their ideas.

    It sounds like a great way to get our message over to a wider audience.

    I thought you or other like minded people might be interested in contacting them with regard to making a documentary.

    Email :-

    or go to their website :-

    Tel :- 0208 728 6490

  63. Jamie Arriere says:


    This is the chap.,_Baron_Howell_of_Guildford

    Former energy secretary under Thatcher, President of the Energy Industries Council – not the head of Shell

  64. A fully funded DB pension plan? Those are a thing of myth! Surely? They don’t exist.

  65. AndyKie says:

    Had my annual meeting with my pension advisor yesterday which is managed by an English company who are using Standard life. He assured me that there will be complete continuity after independence.

  66. call me dave says:

    I have stuck to my boycott of Baxters, Mackies and Tunnocks for more than 18 months. BP garage fuels too but imagine my chagrin on boarding the plane last week in January to foreign parts to see the BP tanker chugging back to the maintenance depot. 🙁

    Still getting my YES lucozade bottle every week though.

    That pensions story is a big factor in the referendum debate, many votes will slide to YES if it happens.

  67. bookie from hell says:

    The only poll I trust will be sept 18

    traquir on twitter saying strong YES on various polls

    Yet other mainstream say strong NO

    one side is going to be very shocked,disappointed

    don’t know which thou

    every vote counts

  68. G H Graham says:

    Owner Maitland Mackie claimed that Scottish food & drink was too weak to survive independence –

    He also claimed that buyers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would refuse to buy Scottish produce because Scotland’s businesses would be viewed as “foreign”.

    He’s wrong.

    I’m not buying his ice cream because he’s a twat.

    I may not be the only one either since it appears his business isn’t doing to well at the moment. Oddly enough, while its still in the union.

  69. Molly says:

    Re Lidls /Aldi is it not a case if it’s marked Scottish beef / pork etc it can be tracked back to the source ( like the info on the butchers window) while if it’s British ?
    Or is it a British Killie pie Aldi sell?

  70. handclapping says:

    If you’re a diabetic then Tunnock’s and Mackie’s is easy and then if you’ve high blood pressure then Baxters has more salt than seawater so that’s you sorted apart from your health which is pretty precarious 🙂

    But on topic, we really, Yes, Wings, whoever, really need a clear explanation of “pension” from all the different angles, OAP, civil service, local govt, NHS, fire, police, company final salary and DB and the really private ones sold by people like Standard Life. If we dont have, then el Gordo can lie, obfuscate and lie again and we have no come-back.

  71. Achnababan says:

    Graham’s Dairy is based in Bridge of Allan and is still family owned I believe. At least in name but probably indebted up to the udders thanks to heavy loans to some dodgy bank.

    All these business owners mentioned are of course Tory supporting, millionaire, public school types – if you substitute their products with ‘FairTrade’ products from anywhere, you will be doing Scotland and the world a favour.

    PS If you can find a ‘FairTrade’ substitute for a Tunnock’s snowball let me know pronto!)

  72. call me dave says:

    My dear old dad flew out of Lincolnshire in a path finder / bomber crew during much of WWII.

    That dog!

  73. boglestone says:

    I could see this story being spun by UKIP as a reason to leave Europe: Being forced to pay the “subsidy junkies” pensions for them.

  74. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Molly says:
    Re Lidls /Aldi is it not a case if it’s marked Scottish beef / pork etc it can be tracked back to the source ( like the info on the butchers window) while if it’s British ?

    All an English cow needs to do to qualify as “Scottish Beef” is to poke its head once through that line of love-bombing Morris Dancers on Hadrian’s Wall.

  75. SquareHaggis says:


    I hear the guys in the drawing office are prone to similar “signature works”.
    One 3d artist I know signs his with a cybermidgie wi a glaikit look and a gigantic set of bollocks,
    At minus 100,000 scaling it’s invisible to the naked eye, but zoom in and hit the flear laughin.

  76. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Wow, Baxter’s eh. I can’t remember the last time I bought a tin of their soup. I always remember it was darned good soup but also darned expensive if my failing memory serves me right. 🙂

    As for the Mackie’s crisps now that is a dear dear loss to this household. We have had many a good night munching on the old haggis and crushed black pepper potato chips. Again though none of these ever so tasty snacks have crossed the threshold of our house for a considerable time. 😉

    Likewise with Tunnocks caramel wafers, tea cakes and Caramel logs. 🙁

    I tell you this independence referendum is playing havoc with my diet! 🙂

    As for Gordon Brown doing his “world tour” of Scotland spreading his “fear of god” into us all, well the less said about this moron the better.

    Nice to see that he is putting all that “hard earned” cash he has wrangled out of the public purse for NOT appearing in the House of Commons to some “good” use…NOT!

    Never mind peeps none of us will be able to get in to hear this Muppet do his “we’re too wee too poor too stupid” speech. Remember all his “speeches” up till now have required pre registration and as far as I know, which isn’t much, he has not done much in the way of a Q&A session afterwards. 🙂

  77. Molly says:

    calgacus MacAndrews – I wish I could link, what an image ????

  78. colin john young says:

    I have been boycotting for over a year Mackies,Baxters,TV licence, all were e mailed first so they have no doubt about for the reasons for boycott.

    Just do it you know it makes sense.

  79. MajorBloodnok says:

    Calgacus MacAndrews says: All an English cow needs to do to qualify as “Scottish Beef” is to poke its head once through that line of love-bombing Morris Dancers on Hadrian’s Wall.

    Ohoh, it must be hell in there.

  80. Clootie says:

    God – where is the will power

    No Mackies
    No Tunnocks
    No Baxters
    No fuel from BP or Shell

    I think we should have a list of unionist supporting companies. I think we should avoid them.

  81. Gillie says:

    Maybe someone could provide a list of pro-unionist companies so that we collectively avoid buying products from.

    I’ll start;

    1. Baxters
    2. Mackies
    3. BP
    4. Shell
    5. Standard Life
    6. RBS
    7. Lloyds
    8. Barclays
    9. Tunnocks

    Also we should have a list pro-independence or neutral companies that we should support;

    1. Lidl
    2. Aldi

  82. ronnie anderson says:

    @ SquareHaggis, kin a bliddy stop noo, am puffed out, an a need

    ma energy ave 1000 odd paper still to be folded.

  83. SquareHaggis says:


    Well that’s my high street identified, except the Oxfam, is Oxfam Y/N?

    Now away for a swim.

  84. SquareHaggis says:

    Och! pit yer feet up Ronnie, ye’re due a night aff.

  85. Andrew Morton says:

    An ex colleague of mine has circulated details of an email exchange with the manager of our company pension scheme. The scheme is based in England but has many pensioners living in Scotland. I thought you’d be interested so I reproduce it here. I have removed all details of individuals, the name of the company, and any personal remarks.

    “After the announcement by George Osborne that rUK would not enter into an agreed currency union with Scotland, should the vote be “yes”, I thought I would contact ***** ***** at Staff Pensions to get her guidance as to what might happen to the Company’s pensioners living in Scotland. She said that the Trustee is monitoring the situation, but it is difficult to plan anything until we know exactly what is to happen after the vote. However, she went on to give me some good information. This would apply if there was no fixed agreement.

    At its most simple, pensioners resident in an independent Scotland who receive Company pensions would be treated in the same way as any other pensioners resident outside of England. The scheme is legally an English trust and therefore subject to English law. This is where things become interesting. Where pensioners are resident outside of England, the pension is payable in sterling and therefore the pensioner bears both the costs of exchange into local currency, as well as the risk of adverse exchange rate movements.

    The position in relation to tax would depend on whether a Double Taxation Treaty was put in place. If such a treaty did exist , then normally pensions would be paid free of English tax, but would be subject to tax in Scotland. It would be for the pensioner to ensure the appropriate amount of tax was paid, and this would not be deducted at source. If no Double Taxation Treaty is put in place, the pension would be subject to tax at source, probably without any of the personal allowances, and the pensioner would then have to sort out their tax position themselves, dealing with the English and Scottish authorities.

    I also asked ***** about pension funding for schemes where both countries are in are in the EU, and cross border rules would apply. If a fund is in deficit then there are strict rules for reducing and clearing it. The Company’s plan would not comply at present, but ***** says that it is quite likely that the Company would put in place separate arrangements for employees and pensioners based in Scotland. “

  86. SquareHaggis says:


  87. alexicon says:

    Add Michelle Moan (yes I know) to your list, I’ve stopped buying her underwear.

  88. alexicon says:

    I should have said, I’ve stopped the wife buying her underwear. Damn been caught out 🙂

  89. Juteman says:

    All this doom and gloom from the MSM has been wearing me down, to the stage that I have stopped watching TV news. I stopped reading comics years ago.

    I had a pleasant surprise at work today though, when two workmates told me they would be voting Yes. One I thought was a maybe, and the other a definite No. I’ve been talking to them about the referendum for a while. It seems as if the constant negativity from the MSM has pissed them off too. So i’m happy to be unhappy with the MSM.

  90. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Am I wrong in thinking pensions being paid at the time of Indy will be continued to be paid from Westminster since that is who got the contributions”

    There is no “pension pot”. It’s a myth. Pensions are paid from taxation. All the contributions to a state pension you paid were in fact used to pay the pensions of the LAST lot of pensioners, and yours will be paid by the working generation when you’re pension age, not from your contributions. Those have already been spent.

    In an independent Scotland, pensions will be paid from general taxation, just as they will in the UK. The only difference is that Scotland is better able to afford pensions (they cost a lower proportion of our GDP), so they’ll be MORE secure after independence, not less.

  91. Morag says:

    And that last comment of Stu’s is reason #6 why I want independence.

  92. Alba4Eva says:

    I’d boycott the Brazier woman… if I could.

  93. jingly jangly says:

    Re last comment from Rev, I send the rev confirmation of the following, maybe he will be posting it shortly, anyway Anybody who is already a pensioner or who has paid into the UK National Insurance fund or whatever you want to call it will receive their pension from the rUK.

    This gives Scotland an opportunity to build up a pension fund as it will be decades before the Scots Government will have to pay out any state pensions. Im sure that their will also be some pro-rate agreement for those who have paid in for less than 35 years.

  94. gerry parker says:

    @Achnababan .
    Lees were the first makers of the snowball and they do still make them. No longer family owned but they’re still based in Coatbridge. Available in 10 packs in A**d and Te*** for around a quid.

  95. G H Graham says:

    Here’s a half arsed idea to raise more money. It’s based upon the premise of not spending money on products from Scottish food companies who are against independence.

    What you might have wasted on a Mackies ice cream while promenading in the pouring rain in Largs for example, instead gets donated to Wings or YES or LFI etc.

    So next time you walk past the isle where you would normally pick up a can of Baxter’s soup or a box of Tunnock’s tea cakes, make a mental note of the price and keep walking.

    When you get home, send that amount of money to who really needs it. Eventually, as they pour over miserable sales volumes, Mary Baxter, Maitland Mackie & their ilk might figure out that pissing off your customers was a mistake.

  96. Oneironaut says:

    Thanks for that! 😀

    Think I’ve managed to avoid them all. Though I keep getting the “RBS” and the plain old “BS” mixed up. Not sure which one I’m with…
    (Think it’s the non-Royal one, according to my cash machine card).

  97. Boorach says:

    I blackballed M & S when they made a virtue of moving their manufacturing overseas (sometime in the eighties or nineties I think) and haven’t darkened their doors since.

    So what chance of Baxters, Mackies or Tunnocks against a highlander’s wrath?

  98. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Sorry for going O/T and apologies if this has already been raised but for those who are not already aware, the people of Scotland are being treated like mushrooms…Kept in the dark and shovelled shite! 🙁


    This incident happened in 2012 but the people of Scotland are only NOW finding out, if they happen to read the Herald newspaper of SNP website! This is an absolutely disgusting way to treat the people of Scotland. Still we are talking about the way the people of Scotland are treated by Westminster so maybe we should not be that surprised after all.

    For anyone wondering about H.M.S. Vulcan it is the R.N. site currently at Dounreay in Caithness.

  99. Gary says:

    As I’ve said before, I don’t know why you all boycott Baxters.

  100. dramfineday says:

    Boycott (no, not you Geoffrey) and/or Girlcott (if you prefer) is,I think,the term we are looking for here:

    “an act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for social or political reasons.” (Thank you Wiki).

    As Senna the soothsayer could have put it “Woe, woe and thrice woe unto those that say Nae (and depend on my denarius to keep them in business)”.

    Cor, on reflection, that list could get quite long….

  101. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    im not boycotting scot companies because their owners are self serving. its the people working in these companies that will pay the price of boycotts, not the owner.

  102. Mosstrooper says:

    AW NAW! wull this madness never end? Noo ma pension wull be safe wi independence, Wull these cybernat seperatist baserts no leave nuthin (pedants spot the double negative) fur tae moan aboot. (this moan has no ccnnection to a well known UK support group)

  103. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Was in ASDA’s the other day, came across ‘caramel waffles’, a decent substitute, like methadone for heroin I suppose…

  104. TJenny says:

    Think we can add Irn Bru to the pro-union list. What is wrong with these business people that they can’t see the advantage in an iScotland brand?

    Re Lidl – they are applying to open in an old B&Q in my area and sent us a pamphlet detailing their vision for new shop and asking for feedback.

    One of their statements was that their fresh food was all locally resourced and that they sell and promote Scottish produce throughout their 9,500 supermarkets in Europe.

    I gave them a big thumbs up and stated I was heartily sick of the union flags plastered over everything in Sainsbury’s.

  105. Jean says:

    Re Baxters…
    She comments about independence near the bottom of the article.

  106. Sue says:

    While the extracts from the article quoted above do not state this explicitly, it does seem to indicate that the EU are looking at changing this law on cross-border pensions because of the implications of Scottish independence.

    Now why would they bother to do that if we were going to be thrown out of the EU ?

  107. Ronnie says:

    Latest nonsense from Aberdeen City Council is that 200,000 letters promoting the Union will be going out with Council Tax demands.

    I believe that they normally enclose a ‘Freepost’ envelope?

    Fit next?

  108. Garry Henderson says:

    Just to keep everyone up to date, the Kirriemuir YES shop appeal is doing really well £780 of the £1000 target raised.

    Great news.

  109. alexicon says:


    Just a little insight into the problems that Labour, and others I’m sure, have implementing any real powers to Scotland IF there’s a no vote.

    I don’t know, but reading these 2 articles I some how get the feeling that we are getting held back to facilitate them.

  110. Alba4Eva says:

    On Tuesday night in Amsterdam…

  111. TJenny says:

    Jean – Mmm- to me, the Baxter woman doesn’t exactly come across as pro indy in that article.

  112. Croompenstein says:

    @Arbroath1320 – That smarmy barsteward Hammond – As I’ve said many times in this House, we do not expect the Scottish people to vote for independence and we are not planning for that contingency

  113. TJenny says:

    Ronnie – is ACC another of those SLabour strongholds then? I’m surprised it isn’t an SNP stronghold what with AS being the MSP for that area and being near the oil an’ all.

  114. Alba4Eva says:

    Garry, thought I’d round the Kirriemuir Shop fund up to £800 😉

  115. Ronnie says:


    It’s a Labour-controlled council, got in on the basis of JoLa’s promise to cancel the upgrade of Union Terrace Gardens. They have adopted the ‘Wullie Bain’ principle with a vengeance, hence the stramash about ACC ‘banning’ SNP MSP’s from all ‘council-owned’ property.

  116. Garry Henderson says:

    Great news Alba4Eva we are getting there!

  117. Croompenstein says:

    I used to think GCC was the worst of Slab in Scotland but Holy Fuck ACC take the biscuit(not a Tunnocks), who the fuck are these people representing!

  118. TJenny says:

    Ronnie – Ah, I thought that the people of Aberdeen had voted for the upgrade of the gardens.

  119. Bill Walters says:

    “Alternatively, of course, the No campaign continues to insist that Scotland wouldn’t actually be a member of the EU by then anyway, so its laws would be irrelevant.”

    I’ve said this before, but it isn’t as simple as saying that if we left the EU the laws wouldn’t apply to us. It depends on the type of legislation. EU directives, for instance, are basically just an outline for corresponding national legislation – they set a date by which member states have to put in place legislation that contains the stipulations within the directive.

    In other words, a directive is basically a way of saying “EU governments and the parliament have agreed to do x, y and z, but it’s up to each state how they do that within their own country”. So for every directive that’s passed the stipulated deadline we already have national laws that contain the same content. These laws will obviously still apply even if we leave the EU because they’re “our” laws now, not some external law at the EU level which will cease to apply to us.

  120. Ronnie says:


    Yes, they did, but this is democracy ‘Scottish Labour’ style. Maybe they take lessons from Glasgow?

    Aberdeen is rapidly becoming the laughing-stock of Scotland because of the actions of these numpties.

    They turn down a £50 million gift from Sir Ian Wood and then £7.3 million of SG cash, then complain they are cash-strapped!

    I’m hoping that someone ‘in the know’ will pronounce upon whether they are legal in sending out these ‘No’ Scotland letters with council mail. l

  121. Molly says:

    Alexicon, so it is just to be accepted people from Scotland will go through two sets of customs, pay to travel to an airport in England, pay for accommodation depending on flight times BEFORE they are able to get a long haul flight. Apart from having to add an extra day off work for travel if able (either side of the holiday/business) then go back through two sets of customs because we don’t want BIrmingham or Manchester to be put at a disadvantage? Another advantage of being Better Together ?

    It appears some of the electorate are more equal than others

    I hope someone is seriously considering Prestwick as an option.

  122. Oneironaut says:

    “Latest nonsense from Aberdeen City Council is that 200,000 letters promoting the Union will be going out with Council Tax demands.”

    That just says it all…

    Curious to know what those letters will be saying.

    “Vote No and we’ll pay all your Council Tax money back to you. No, really, we will. Honest! You can trust us. We’ll never lie to you… Really!”
    (*attached photograph of terrifying Tony Blair-esque smile…*)

  123. Jamie Arriere says:

    Yes, I’m with Findlay on this – I want to disagree with these business bosses who want to stay in the union, win the referendum, and then hope these businesses then stay, flourish & expand in an independent Scotland.

    I’ll keep buying Tunnocks wafers to keep the Uddingston folk in a job.

    If they threaten to leave (as I don’t think many have, other than Michelle Mone), that’ll be a different matter.

  124. msean says:

    Well dodged trap question re independence on jeff randall show.

  125. AndyC says:

    Notice how you can’t buy a Scottish flag in any of the big supermarkets?
    If it’s a royal wedding or olympics, etc.,the place is festooned with union flags from the main entrance onwards.
    All manner of memorabilia tat will be found in at least one aisle – flags, mugs,bunting,bags,plates etc.
    Something historical is about to happen here and you can’t buy anything related to it.
    I did ask in my local Leven Sainsbury’s.
    I asked the girl in customer services if they had any Scotland flags in stock and if not, when would they be getting them in.
    I got a blank look from her.
    I tried to explain that something quite important was happening in Scotland in September.
    She said “what’s that?”
    I said “The Independence referendum!”
    “That’s no gaunnie happen!” she retorted.
    I asked to see the manager……I’m still waiting.

  126. Crash Gordon bluffs says:

    Go for it Brown. Even more votes for YES. Or maybe just go, retire and leave everyone in peace.That’s more than the millions of Iraqis got. More of them dead or maimed, never to be see again.

    Pensions are a total fiddle. An opportunity for the Tory bankers to embezzle, even more.Pension Plans are totally over estimated, to draw more folk in. Pozzi schemes. The stock market is manipulated by the Traders. A crash happens, but they have got all their money out. it’s the punters and plebs who lose out.

  127. X_Sticks says:


    Thanks for the Paulo vid – great song. Might even change my mind about T in the Park 😀

  128. Fraud and corruption says:

    The SNP got the highest number of councillors per Party. The rest gang up against the SNP (for committee places – more remuneration.). Same in the Shire.

    Willy Young has gone nuts. Uses a slegdge hammer to crack a nut. Wastes £Millions of public money. Then complains Aberseen has no money. i.e. Thanks to him. Labour got 16,000 votes. 45,000 voted for rh UTG Project .A Green CC holds the balance of power.

    AC Clown councillors are an affront and an embarrassment to the City. The electorate is totally sick of them. Labour

  129. Myths and Confusion says:

    Scottish taxpayers pay for (UK) gov pensions in Scotland. Gov pensions are paid for from general taxation. There is no UK gov pension fund.

    £17Billion for Scottish (UK gov) Pensions/Welfare Benefits, Over a 1/4 of Scotland’s income.

  130. Chris says:

    I note that the EU rules apply to defined benefit (DB) pensions schemes, i.e., final salary pension schemes. These types of pensions are few and far between in the private sector. In the public sector where final salary schemes are more common they are generally at a local authority or Scotland level and so will not be affected by EU regulations after independence. The original reporting of this pension story was blatant misrepresentation.

  131. Derick fae Yell says:

    I hear what people are saying about not boycotting firms whose CEO’s mouth off against Independence for fear of hurting their workers. But personally, I just can’t actually stomach buying these companies products.
    Cannot. Stomach. It. Would make me physically sick to buy from these companies.

    But the market for product X remains the same, whether it is supplied by companies A,B,C, or A,B. Hence the need for workers at companies A,B is just the same as A,B,C.

    Company A makes a stupid politically motivated statement, resulting in loss of business and potential unemployment for their staff.
    Companies B and C do not make such statements, or make statements that chime with the views of their customer base. They sell more products, as company A has lost market share. They need more staff.

    Production is not king. Demand is King. Consumer power is what killed Apartheid.

    Grahams Ice Cream is superb, btw

    I drove past the Shell station in Stirling today at 6.45 is. Late rush hour. Usually stowed out. Not a car. Tumbleweeds. Posted this observation on Facebook and so far one response noting that the Shell station in Musselburgh is equally desolate. There are other places to buy fuel. There are other supermarkets.

    Consumer Power is stronger than political power

    Boycott companies that support NO, or who make statements that can be spun to support NO. And by this means, support companies that support YES to expand and grow

  132. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    are only three who have declared against independence
    Can we make up an exhaustive list – a new Ragmans Roll or Parcel of Rogues.

    I no longer buy any of their products

  133. Croompenstein says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill – I am kinda torn with this one as the workers for these companies will be ordinary Scots just doing a job and who can’t legislate for having fuckwit management and directors and I wouldn’t want to purposefully harm ordinary folk and also I fucking love teacakes especially the dark chocolate ones 🙂

  134. Desimond says:

    Can we add anything advertised by Chris Hoy to the non-shopping list please

  135. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Alba4Eva says:

    I’d boycott the Brazier woman… if I could.

    I thought she had already left Scotland Alba. Oh no wait a minute I got that wrong. She only said that she’d leave Scotland if the S.N.P. got into power. Well I guess as she, apparently, is still in Scotland there is no such thing as an S.N.P. government in Holryrood, right? 😉

    Croompenstein says:

    @Arbroath1320 – That smarmy barsteward Hammond – As I’ve said many times in this House, we do not expect the Scottish people to vote for independence and we are not planning for that contingency

    Just one of the many moron’s who doesn’t think we’re going to win in September and hasn’t got the guts to plan for that contingency. Man is a complete MUPPET!

    I wonder how he is going to feel on September 19th when we WIN! Hope S.N.P. can get a defence question asked to him on the 19th, perhaps along the lines of “How is the Secretary of State for Defence’s contingency plans for Scottish independence coming along?” 🙂

  136. gfaetheblock says:

    Boycotting a company because of a CEO or Chairman’s political view could have a minor impact on the company’s sales, the owners may lose a bit of profit, but Scottish workers could lose their jobs.
    The Banks, petrochemical and food companies employ terms of thousands of Scots, e should support these companies irrespective of inaugurals political views.

  137. SquareHaggis says:

    If Carmichaelmoore is trying to force businesses to declare their allegiances, which I read somewhere he was then it stands to reason he’s trying to cause this exact effect i.e. boycotting as a means to destroy Scottish businesses.

    The trick is to not let him win. Don’t boycott, just buy less. The message will get back to business via their profit margins and often a gentle hint is sufficient to convince “sensible” companies what’s best for them.

  138. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    I’ve given up all the products listed in the name of a great cause – Lent.

    OH is concerned about the man boobs heading south without Michelle’s support, but she’ll have to live with it.

  139. Greannach says:

    Maitland Mackie was a well-known Aberdeenshire Liberal, therefore a UKOK. If he is such a poor businessman that he doesn’t think he could survive after independence, then maybe it’s time to help his business go under. The Baxters are well-known Tories, so need to be avoided like the plague even they have a lovely visitor centre in Morayshire. There are plenty smaller suppliers who don’t need the comfort blanket of Westminster to keep them in business. The problem is finding their products in bigger supermarkets.

  140. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Prawn factory in Kyle used to supply baxter’s with heads and claws for their prawn soup. Ie the left over rubbish.

  141. Helena Brown says:

    Audrey Baxter lost us years ago, too much salt in their soup and the last time I bought an ice cream from Mackies was years ago, we stopped in Tyndrum and bought a cone, it was rubbish. So neither will affect me, pensions would but I understand that if I was now living in Ireland I would still be in receipt of my pension, so I am not scared. As I see it the dashed thing, my OAP one can only go one way in an Independent, sorry Separatist Scotland, up.

  142. Helena Brown says:

    @ Arbroath1320, you got me going, I was wondering who was making those braziers, then I realised Michele Moan, well she may not have left but her bra manufacturer has. Never bought one of hers and never will.

  143. Vambomarbeleye says:

    The prawn factory in Kyle used to supply Baxter’s with heads and claws for their prawn soup. Ie the left over rubbish. Would never touch any of their products knowing what went into that can of prawn soup.

  144. BigSteveChisholm says:

    Aw, lovely.

    Vote NO for more of this sort of thing –

    “George Osborne is facing a £20bn black hole in the public finances, which means that austerity may have to continue until 2020, according to research by the Financial Times.”

  145. muscleguy says:

    @John King
    You have it wrong, submarine, water, leak yes but now how you have it. Firstly the reactor in question is a prototype submarine reactor at Dounreay they use as a test bed. The water the radiation leaked into is the coolant that is completely contained within the reactor vessel (I assume there’s a heat exchanger involved to get it out for use), so no radioactivity leaked to the environment and it wouldn’t even on a sub.

    As a consequence they are going to completely refuel the oldest sub at vast cost £120million at next refit.

    I’m no apologist for the MoD or the Trident program but let’s not indulge in scaremongering, please. Leave that to BT.

  146. Linda's Back says:

    We should be mounting a campaign to persuade supermarkets to repackage prominent Union Jack labelled goods as it is very political in the context of the independence referendum.

    Failing which we should refuse to buy them or remove the packaging where possible.

  147. There is no “pension pot”. It’s a myth. Pensions are paid from taxation. All the contributions to a state pension you paid were in fact used to pay the pensions of the LAST lot of pensioners, and yours will be paid by the working generation when you’re pension age, not from your contributions. Those have already been spent.”

    So basically its a ponzi scheme. If anything then, word on the current state of affairs with regards to pensions absolutely must be spread to as many people as possible. Its probably the most unstable model one can base a pension scheme on.

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