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We’re pretty sure this is libel

Posted on July 03, 2014 by

Jill Stephenson is (or maybe wasProfessor Emerita of Modern German History at the University of Edinburgh. She was the subject of a substantial profile piece in the Times a couple of months ago on the subject of the independence campaign, which called her “one of the most compelling voices in support of the Union” (as well as somewhat inflating her status to just “Professor Emerita of History”), and therefore we must take her to be a respectable commentator who wouldn’t tell crude flat-out lies.

angryjill

So we were intrigued to notice the above tweet from yesterday. Can anyone point us to Professor Curtice actually making such a claim? It would surely be significant if the country’s leading (and apparently only) psephologist had indeed said that Yes voters were just a bunch of thickos. At the very least it would somewhat colour his analysis, which we’ve hitherto always considered professional and impartial.

We’ve got to pop out for a bit, so any help would be appreciated.

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    1. 03 07 14 13:57

      We’re pretty sure this is libel | Scottish Independence News

    341 to “We’re pretty sure this is libel”

    1. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I think I will e-mail Prof Curtice to see if he actually agrees that he said that?

      Maybe it was lost in translation from the original German,

      UNTERMENSCH

    2. Grouse Beater says:

      Professor Emerita of German history? What a coincidence.

      A counterpart at St Andrews University, Dr Bettina Bildhauer, thinks Scotland’s ambition too close to nasty European nationalism to be comfortable.

      And she said so. Publically. She told graduates what to think.

      As a compatriot observed, we can do without missionary opinion.

    3. scopa says:

      Looks like troll bait to me, Maybe she needs the publicity?

    4. Luigi says:

      The Better-No-Thanks meltdown continues unabated. They are becoming desperate. Insults, blunders, half-truths and blatant lies have been evident from the word go, but they are starting to get really careless.

      How long before a prominent BT figure falls through the ice completely that even a protective MSM shield cannot save him/her?

    5. Jill P says:

      I saw that earlier and was not happy. It was in the same conversation as Mrs Darling spouting off too.

    6. IcySpark says:

      I believe he may have said:

      “It’s true that people who are in routine occupations or live in places which are relatively socially deprived are somewhat more likely to say they’re going to vote Yes in the referendum, so certainly it’s a target group for the Yes side … But they’re not going to win the referendum on the basis of that section of the population alone. It’s sheer statistics: there aren’t enough of them.”

      But don’t quote me on this as I can’t find a direct link for the quote.

    7. Haggis Hunter says:

      My Wife is German, and a professor, and voting Yes.
      Wonder what Prof., Stephenson makes of that?

    8. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      E-mail with screen shot duly sent to Prof Curtice.

      begins

      Fear Prof. Curtice,

      I came across this on twitter and duly captured it by way of a screen shot.

      This lady is a Professor Emeritus at Edinburgh University in Modern German History.

      It is possible that the original German was lost in translation from Untermensch.

      I wish you luck as that tweet could be a career changer as well as reflect quite badly on the University.

      Please tell me that you do not endorse this in any way.

      Sincerely etc

      ends

    9. IheartScotland says:

      They have no idea.

    10. bookie from hell says:

      guardian

      Photographers on Centre Court on Wednesday told the Guardian they heard Murray scream “Shut the fuck up!” in the direction of his box during the second set, at around 2.13pm. Then, towards the end of a tense match when standing beneath the Royal Box, where the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge were among the guests, the snappers said he shouted: “Five minutes before the fucking match!”

    11. IheartScotland says:

      Well done BtP. Great email.

    12. Luigi says:

      I am amazed just how emotional unionists are becoming. It is affecting the judgement of those who should know better.

      Perhaps the wrong side are being labelled “Bravehearts”.

      It’s only a matter of time before the union flag face paint comes out.

    13. galamcennalath says:

      I very much doubt if Curtice said anything like that. Perhaps she’s one of those people who are so opinionated, they only hear what they want to hear in everything.

      There’s something very odd about historians. Could it be something they intuitively share with Unionists – they are always looking to the glorious past, not to the future.

      Like Oliver they are concerned with what has already happened, perhaps they should just leave the future to those who actually care about it and the impact it will have on generations to come.

    14. IcySpark says:

      I finally found the quote.

      http://issuu.com/morung_express/docs/8th_april_2014/6

      Half way down the centre column

    15. heedtracker says:

      Another charming academic. Fellow raging no Glasgow uni’s Prof Tomkins was “giving evidence” as per for Ian Davidson’s Commons vote naw or we’ll bayonet you Committee but still had time for this kind of stuff, minus the here in my country Slovenia shtick.

      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

    16. Macart says:

      Not so much a face palm as a face plant. 😀

      Yep folks that’s what no thanks thinks of the yes voting electorate.

      The Jimmy Hill school of diplomacy in action.

    17. john macdonald says:

      Jill Stephenson is a regular contributor to Scottish Review where she is a vociferous ‘no’ supporter, as well as giving her views on many other topics. Don’t always agree with her (and obviously not on voting choices) but her viewpoint here seems a bit extreme, even if it is attributed to Curtice. Being an expat, I can’t vote, but it’s reassuring to know that I’m still counted among the less bright and less well-educated. By leaving Scotland and working abroad for so long, I’ve clearly made a big contribution to raising my home country’s average IQ.

    18. Jimbo says:

      Maybe Stephenson was hoping there’d be a backlash from the nasty cybernats so that she could then claim Unionist martyr status in order to get the resulting publicity that goes with it.

      Best way to deal; with her comment is not to respond to it. Leave that to John Curtice. He can sue for defamation if what she’s stated turns out to be untrue.

    19. Murray McCallum says:

      I seem to remember Prof Curtice saying there appeared to be a positive relationship between the less affluent and a Yes vote.

      Maybe she is saying that the working class and disadvantaged are naturally thick?

      For some reason this makes me question – is she in OneNation Labour?

    20. Luigi says:

      I very much doubt if Curtice said anything like that. Perhaps she’s one of those people who are so opinionated, they only hear what they want to hear in everything.

      Then she owes Prof Curtice a public apology, at the very least.

      And then she can apologise to the million or so “less well-educated and less bright” people in our country for her crude, offensive remark.

    21. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      “Prof” Jill Stephenson obviously has made up this quotation and so, what does that say about her interpretation of any bloody history, nevermind the modern version where the facts are everybloody where and accessible.

      Maybe she has getting away with that academically and has strayed off the ranch for reasons best known to herself.

      Boing, boing

      Numpty

    22. Tartan Tory says:

      Such a sweeping generalisation from a ‘Professor’ does no good whatsoever to either side of the campaign. She might do well to suggest that the less well-educated are there, in part, due to the Westminster ideology that requires poorly paid, poorly educated people in Scotland (and the north of England) to keep the engine room of the Empire fired-up.

      By a similar token, I’ve seen a few people on wings who think that a Yes vote is the preserve of the left-wing. IT’S NOT!

      There are plenty of well educated and well paid businessmen and women who might traditionally have been placed on the right of centre and who are voting YES.

      In fact, given that a move to independence may in some minds require a leap of faith in oneself, I’d dare to suggest that self-employed business people may well be more natural Yes voters than those in traditional employments!

    23. bookie from hell says:

      Jill Stephenson
      ?@Historywoman .@Frank_McGinnis @RobAllan4 @flyerinhiding @YesScotland @Bobbybungalow

      I cast my vote, not some ‘Scottish vote’. We vote in constituencies.

    24. Futureproof says:

      Ha! We’ve got Chomsky, they’ve got Muppets and Orangemen.

    25. IcySpark says:

      Here is what he actually said:


      “It’s true that people who are in routine occupations or live in places which are relatively socially deprived are somewhat more likely to say they’re going to vote Yes in the referendum, so certainly it’s a target group for the Yes side … But they’re not going to win the referendum on the basis of that section of the population alone. It’s sheer statistics: there aren’t enough of them.”

    26. Disco Dave says:

      I think it may have been the piece Curtice did with Isabel Fraser on the BBC Website, their podcast?

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28065541

      The inference was that “working class” ,to use as broad a term as possible will be more likely to vote yes as opposed to the “affluent” who will be more inclined to vote No.

    27. bookie from hell says:

      ask the chancellor

      #7×8

    28. biggpolmont says:

      Hold On Hold on This could well be yet another trap designed to stir up a hornets nest
      SHE DID NOT SAY THAT IT WAS PROFESSOR JOHN CURTICE.
      She probably has a tea laddie called John Curtice I found two in the phone book.Anyone know how to contact professor John Curtice So that he can contact her and ask her . After all the good professor is hardly likely to want anyone to impune his impartiallity is he?

    29. muttley79 says:

      Yet still no sign of the positive case for the Union…How long have we been waiting for it now? The No campaign continue to denigrate supporters of independence, and offer no positivity whatsoever.

    30. gordoz says:

      When presented with this commentary, as some are suggesting they will do, then the BBC/STV/UK Professor psephologist had better comment and counter this or we will have to accept it as fact by default.

      Such is the media these days; that’s exactly how they would play it.

      “Qui cum canibus concumbunt cum pulicibus surgent”

      If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas !

    31. Gary says:

      Ahhhh, it starts to make sense. Although now banned from Better Together’s Facebook page I used to go on regularly and have debate with the trolls. One of whom was a Jill Stephenson (no mention of being a prof). However, as coincidence would have it she shared a joke with another troll on his timeline. The other troll being Max Nix and the joke was that his (Max’s) name was a play on the German phrase ‘macht nichts’ (makes no difference, I’m told). So a cabal of those connected with Germany in their employ etc? Another friend of theirs Eileen? was posting in a similarly trollish fashion. You don’t think they are all connected and planting stories do you????

    32. Camz says:

      As a C2DE with a high IQ and a reasonable grasp of all things non-specialised, I find that highly insulting.

      Low income does not necessarily mean low intelligence, or low education. Having said that, my education was a farce, and it was mostly due to Thatcher’s cuts and Labour’s strikes.

      History is only useful if there’s some message to apply to the present or future. In this case we can take Westminster’s education and employment legacy as an example of its negligence, and apply it in the referendum, and make a Yes vote to consign the arrogant elitists in politics and eduction to history.

      How’s that Jill?

    33. Mosstrooper says:

      Duh– OK — I likes bangin’ two bricks togever I do, yus.

      vote–yus–ats at sorted en.

    34. bookie from hell says:

      Jill Stephenson
      ?@Historywoman .@LouiseMensch @Josephhind

      You have to understand that Melissa is from the extreme fringes of idiotic nationalism.And boy, are they extreme.

    35. gordoz says:

      @Disco Dave

      Ahh but its Ms Stephenson’s inference of stements from one John Curtice that is key here.

      Think thats what Stu is teasing out of NO side gaff.

      Facts are everything in Academia !

    36. Training Day says:

      ‘At the very least it would somewhat colour his analysis, which we’ve hitherto always considered professional and impartial.’

      This isn’t April 1 Rev, right? I mean you did see his double act with Dimbleby on Euro election result night?

      Anyway, in the absence of any formal refutation from Curtice, we’ll have to assume he said it. That’s what us stupid people do.

    37. galamcennalath says:

      muttley79 says:
      Yet still no sign of the positive case for the Union…How long have we been waiting for it now? The No campaign continue to denigrate supporters of independence, and offer no positivity whatsoever.

      Yes. Such an odd strategy, they have adopted. Signs are, that’s what they are going to stick with. It has to be the biggest political gamble in UK politics for a very long time … offer no vision, only attack your opponent.

      If there is any natural justice, they certainly don’t deserve to win!

    38. Murray McCallum says:

      IcySpark

      Thanks for the Prof Curtice quote. I’m sure I have heard him mention such voting intentions, together with other groupings more likely to vote Yes, on the TV.

      It seems the Edinburgh Professor is unable to comprehend the actual meaning of quoting a person. You would think that was important in the teaching of History.

      She also appears to view those who are relatively socially deprived as naturally less intelligent.

    39. Murray McCallum says:

      IcySpark

      Thanks for the Prof Curtice quote. I’m sure I have heard him mention such voting intentions, together with other groupings more likely to vote Yes, on the TV.

      It seems the Edinburgh Professor is unable to comprehend the actual meaning of quoting a person. You would think that was important in the teaching of History.

      She also appears to view those who are relatively socially deprived as naturally less intelligent.

    40. gerry parker says:

      He who knows and knows he knows, he is a wise man, seek him.
      He who knows not, and knows he knows not, he is a child, teach him.
      He who knows not, and knows not he knows not, he is a fool, shun him.

      Applies to she as well I’d think.

    41. alexicon says:

      @jimbo.

      Her comments could be classed as online abuse towards YES voters.

    42. Douglas Thomson says:

      Well, as is usual for the unionists, they twist the facts to suit their world view.

      Having briefly worked with the Edinburgh University Aqumen Scottish Social Survey Team, including the eminent professor Curtice, I can confirm that the less affluent socio-economic classes are more likely to vote yes. These classes will be, in general, less well educated and qualified than others.

      However the inference that this is down to poorer knowledge of the issues, or lack of understanding of the arguments, or lesser ability to articulate their views, doesn’t necessarily follow.

      In my view this tendency is entirely down to perceived self interest. If you’re doing relatively well under the current system, why would you wish to change it? If you have a privileged position, why put that at risk? On the other hand if you’re doing badly under the current system you’d welcome a shake-up. It’s pretty much as simple as that. This straightforward assessment obviously explains why the ‘establishment’ resist change – any change which might affect their privileges.

      Seemples……………………

    43. donald anderson says:

      I take it neither have ever read the daily online comments in the Unionist press from Loyalist lumpens?

    44. James D says:

      So it’s official then – We ARE too stupid! at least psephologically speaking.

    45. Hobbit says:

      The view attributed to John Curtice – that the working class(es) are far more likely to vote for independence than the middle class, the educated, and all the English voters in Edinburgh – would seem to me, to be a fair assessment of things.

      icyspark, where did you get that quote of what John Curtice actually said?

    46. Gary says:

      Alistair Darling, Maggie Vaughan, D Hothershall, History woman (Jill Stephenson) assorted German connections either using graduation ceremonies to force NO down the throats of the captive audience, or the others on Facebook trolling anyone who dares ask questions (to the extent where I had to block one of her friends, NEVER had to do that before). A straight line from Darling to the trolls, it would seem the CyberBrits are controlled from Better Together HQ!!

    47. Hobbit says:

      Sorry, I’m paraphrasing what John actually said, my bad.

    48. Packhorse Pete says:

      One assumes a Professor is well-educated. However, it doesn’t follow that education makes them bright. In any case, anyone who tries to capture the essence of a political campaign via the confines of a tweet, just needs to be ignored and pitied.

    49. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Alexicon

      I am voting Yes, so does that make me less well-educated and less bright?

      I find that abusive.

    50. Packhorse Pete says:

      And that’s obvious from her output.

    51. Dick Gaughan says:

      As any fule kno, you can accurately measure a person’s intelligence/education by the size of their bank balance or by whatever fancy meaningless title they flaunt.

      She actually sounds like just another numptie who’s been educated way beyond her intelligence.

      Great entertainment potential if Curtice does take umbridge at being mis-quoted and makes an issue out of it. Pass the popcorn.

    52. IheartScotland says:

      We’re too stupid,and if you can think for yourself, you’re even more stupid.What a way think about your own folk.

    53. muttley79 says:

      @Gary

      Yes, when is Darling going to speak out against the growing number of abusive remarks of No campaigners on the internet? 😀 😀

    54. Gary says:

      NB Vaughan, Hothershall and Stephenson (history woman) names all on the picture tweeted of AS as North Korean dictator, other links thru Facebook and the German prof at the graduation is an educated assumption, ie it just COULDN’T be a coincidence. That’s definitely my last post on this.

    55. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Ah!, but John Mcdonald you’re an EXPAT and therefore are in the ‘furriner’ class and your views dinnae count….sorry son :).

    56. Liquid Lenny says:

      Hope its not too early to go O/T

      New Irn Bru ad, what d’ya think?

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-OvpaDIBWQ

    57. a2 says:

      Can anybody clarify what a routine occupation is?

      oh I’m putting a positive spin on this, Is she saying that it’s her students that are voting Yes which is why she feels compelled to comment?

      Quite common I think to find some tutors who, on explaining things poorly, assume their students are thick because they can’t understand something.

    58. Drew Macleod says:

      This is actually Historywoman’s response to a point I made on Twitter. I have crossed swords with her before, she certainly doesn’t show much intelligence at the best of times. For instance she believes BBC and STV are covertly working for Alex Salmond and SNP. If she is among the No campaign’s best minds we have little to worry about!

    59. IcySpark says:

      @ Hobbit.

      Quote can be found here. Page 6 half way down middle column.

      http://issuu.com/morung_express/docs/8th_april_2014/6

    60. Helena Brown says:

      Whilst not having a twitter account I have been lurking. I have to say that this “ahem” lady may be a Professor of sorts but she is certainly vicious and quite horrible. If she were on my side I would be off somewhere else

    61. Oddities says:

      Just had an email response from Prof. Stephenson in which she denies using the words ‘less bright’…

    62. bookie from hell says:

      guardian

      Special Funding?

      David Cameron has confirmed that Glasgow has become the latest city to win special funding from the Treasury, in a £500m deal to boost infrastructure investment and employment.

      The prime minister announced the funding as he prepared for a major Scottish Tory anti-independence rally where he is due to appeal to the country’s “silent majority” to speak up for the UK.

      Cameron said the city deal funding for Glasgow, disclosed by the Guardian on Sunday, would see the creation of up to 28,000 jobs and would help pay for investment in roads, bus services and employment programmes.

      The prime minister said it would also help fund a £210m rail link to Glasgow airport from the city centre which was scrapped in controversial circumstances by Alex Salmond’s government in 2009 – a scheme Glasgow’s Labour-led council now hopes to resurrect.

      Cameron’s announcement came as John Swinney, the Scottish finance secretary, said Scotland was likely to lose billions of pounds from planned UK government spending cuts if there was a no vote in the referendum.

      The city deals programme, initiated by Nick Clegg, the deputy prime minister in 2011, was originally set up to strengthen and promote the economies of major city regions in England and not as a UK-wide initiative.

      The £500m gift to Glasgow marks a further attempt by UK government ministers and no campaigners to kill off Salmond’s quest for Scottish independence in the run-up to September’s referendum, with recent opinion polls suggesting the yes campaign’s advance in public support has stalled.

      The deal will be brandished as physical proof of the “union dividend” by no campaigners, with the city about to host the 2014 Commonwealth games.

      The announcement has also been timed to coincide with Friday’s emblematic naming ceremony at Rosyth dockyard in Fife of the Royal Navy’s new Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier by the Queen. The vessel is the largest warship built in Britain, with the largest contracts awarded to Scottish dockyards, the two BAE yards on the Clyde and Babcock’s site at Rosyth.

      Glasgow’s programme will involve local councils in the area investing £130m and Cameron challenged the Scottish government to match that spending.

      Gordon Matheson, Glasgow’s Labour leader, told the Evening Times: “This is the start of an era of transformation in the Glasgow city region. This truly historic city deal is the biggest in the UK and the first in Scotland.

      “City regions really are the engines of national economic growth and I have long argued that devolving more power to our cities is the best way to grow the Scottish and British economies.”

      In a joint statement, the prime minister and Danny Alexander, chief secretary to the Treasury, said Glasgow was one of the UK’s greatest cities.

      “For too long governments in London and Edinburgh have acted as though taking powers away from Britain’s great cities is the best way to create growth, rather than trusting the people living there to find their own specific solutions to meet their own unique needs,” they said.

      Speaking in Dundee, Swinney said a SNP government would offer “a sustainable and credible alternative to austerity” by investing £4.2bn between 2017 and 2019 in economic growth.

      That compared to the £25bn cuts proposed across the UK by the current Westminster government, which could see Scotland’s Treasury grant cut by roughly £2.5bn, he predicted.

      “In the first year of an independent Scotland, our balance sheet is forecast to broadly match the UK’s and public sector debt will be falling as a share of GDP. Scotland will therefore start life with the opportunity to do things differently,” Swinney said.

      “This means we could, within an overall commitment to fiscal responsibility, provide a credible and sustainable alternative to the current UK government’s fiscal plan and place a greater focus on supporting growth and tackling inequality.”

    63. eddie says:

      Jill Stephenson has repeatedly over the past year or two been extremely abusive towards Yes voters. I thought she was just making the professor claim up, as I could not believe that a professor would be stupid enough to spout such hatred and abuse online. Seems I was wrong.

    64. IcySpark says:

      @ Hobbit

      Here is the image link to John Curtice’s quote

      http://imgur.com/inYMEtR

    65. Mosstrooper says:

      Is this no’ the auld joke aboot the bloke who met a woman at Uni. got her pregnant so emerita?

      I’ll get ma kilt.

    66. geeo says:

      Prof Curtice emailed and link to story on here delivered.

      These No people dont get the dangers of social media do they !!!

    67. Democracy Reborn says:

      All Together Now!:-

      “We’re poor!, we’re thick!, we know the box to tick – vote YESS!, vote YESS”

    68. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Missed the start of the media review on the RS John Beattie show – did Cosgrove make any mention of the BBC PQ demo?

    69. Tartan Tory says:

      I think I may have sussed this out now (takes a while for me to let it sink-in)…..

      I’m fairly well off and I don’t have a routine occupation. I got here with my own hard graft and started with nothing at all. BUT, and here’s the rub, I don’t have a degree, ergo I’m one of the less-well-educated and consequently less bright masses of Yes voters which Prof Stephenson talks of.

      So, the cat’s out of the bag – The Tartan Tory is actually working class AND a thicko into the bargain, all because he didn’t waste any of his working time at a university being ‘educated’ by numpties like this.

      Let me tell you something Ms Stephenson. I don’t rise and fall to an employers tune, I don’t commute in a capital city, I don’t have to work to pay bills and I certainly wouldn’t want to trade places with you. So who’s the thick one?

    70. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Her title doesn’t guarantee that she has a clue about language or the her professorship is through any great academic achievement being that the Scarecrow(strawman) got an emeritus at the end of the Wizard of Oz.
      That said she’s definitely failing to make the distinction between a description of a section of potential yes voters and all of them. In fact it’s obvious from the quote from Curtis that it’s a segment of the electorate Yes are targeting whilst No don’t seem to be.
      I’ve only got a BSc and at one time scored 154 on an IQ test so what do I know. The latter being due to a bet that I couldn’t get into Mensa which I did after a bit of practice. Coincidentally that practice consisted of the kind of puzzles you used to find in the more middle class newspapers which might have introduced as slight bias when it came to measuring their intelligence. Never mind the premium put on education by those in the right.

    71. anne Gorman says:

      I tweeted a snap shot of this today to another person involved in this conversation asking why yes voters were being called idiots by her haven’t heard a dicky since!

    72. Paul Fitzgerald says:

      My father is Oxford educated, English, living in Scotland & voting YES. I know many, many more highly educated individuals, like himself, voting YES. Her opinion is null & void. Intelligentsia for YES! Lol 😉

    73. yardbox says:

      On that basis I assume that those humans who live outwith the United Kingdom are snivelling morons for not forcing their governments to enter into a political union with the UK?

      I am generally finding the requirement to justify my decision as a Yes voter to those that are voting No very tiring.

      Generally I have found that the average No voter really has very limited understanding how the government works and without too much discussion falls back on a mixture of abject fear and war based jingoism.

      And that is why the standard of debate is so poor to date. If the debate was from a general position of mutual understanding then I think the average No and Yes voter would have more common ground. We have a lot to be questioning as to how our country is being run, and these questions should be asked regardless of your constitutional position.

    74. Grouse Beater says:

      Being an academic means having a certain specialist knowledge in a specific subject. It does not mean he or she is an intellectual, or indeed, is well-informed politically.

      Only a few are polymaths, or like Noam Chomsky, discover their specialisim (linguistics) opens up understanding of the uses of propaganda in the hands of government.

      The great mathematician, philosopher, and political thinker, Bertrand Russell, could not boil an egg to feed himself whenever his wife was away at political lecturers, so useless was he at cooking.

      As Stephenson proves, you can be seriously dim, too, when it comes to expressing gross prejudice in public.

    75. Brotyboy says:

      @ Orri

      Interesting; I’ve always believed that you could raise your ‘IQ’ by 10 points or so just by practising these puzzles.

      And the few MENSA members I’ve met were rather strange individuals.

    76. Grouse Beater says:

      BfH reports: Glasgow has become the latest city to win special funding from the Treasury, in a £500m deal to boost infrastructure investment and employment.

      I am experiencing a strong sense of Edinburgh tram deja vu!

    77. John says:

      Apparently the good Prof. Curtice will be answering our questions on the Beeb very soon, here is a link: http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27997288

      Perhaps someone should ask him if he is aware he has been a victim of libel…

    78. Lesley-Anne says:

      There is only one thing that springs to mind bookie when I read this shite about Cameron and his *ahem* announcement that Glasgow has become the latest city to win special funding from the Treasury, in a £500m deal to boost infrastructure investment and employment and that is 1707 all over again.

      Westminster bribed the M.P.’s and land owners of Scotland in 1707 to get their grubby wee paws on OUR country and now in 2014 they are once again bribing our politicians and land owners to retain their grubby wee paw hold of OUR country.

      What a pity they, Westminster, actually believe the shite they spout about us being too wee, too small and too poor. Come the 19th of September they are in for the BIGGEST shock in their pathetic wee lives, cause we will WIN in September and the union will be broken for ever! 😛

      Westminster bought and sold the *cough* “parcel of rogues in 1707 ably backed up by their inferred threat of invasion from 8 English regiments, 5 regiments of Foot and 3 regiments of Dragoons. They were based along the border and in Ireland just waiting for the word to invade.

      The only thing missing from today’s “parcel of rogues” is the basing of regiments along the border. Have no fear though cause I’m certain Cameron and his millionaire cronies will have some sort of military plan like this just sitting on the shelf waiting to be en-acted!

    79. John says:

      Ha. Just realised I got the month wrong on that one. Don’t mind me…

    80. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Brotyboy says:

      @ Orri

      And the few MENSA members I’ve met were rather strange individuals.

      Like Jimmy Savile?

      Honestly.

    81. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      John says:

      Have you told him?

    82. heraldnomore says:

      Ian there was indeed good coverage on Beattie prog to events at PQ on Sunday, and on the reporting of it by BBC. Mind you they didn’t say that it originally been reported as a pro-indy protest, rather than an anti-BBC event, just remarking that it took place and that it was covered, which seemed to say enough about how things are changing, leaving us to draw our own conclusions.

      It’s always a good slot that one, post PMQs on a Thursday, with Stuart and Eamonn.

    83. Gary Nisbett says:

      I am totally disimbobuligated by the persocutionalisationest of these remarks. I am voting yes and I had a very academicalised upbringing. I shall be writing to my local navigation party to stress my disincooperization of this matter immediately. Mifed

    84. Sasha Callaghan says:

      I just can’t believe how rude some of the ‘No Thanks’ people are becoming. For the first time ever I had to block someone ( a Labour Party member) on Facebook today because of the abuse I got for daring to ask how on earth Kathy Wiles was selected in the first place given her dubious online profile? Another friend who is a Labour supporter got booted out of the closed SLAB group yesterday for asking the same thing. This latest malarkey from Jill Stephenson saddens but doesn’t surprise me.

    85. Michael says:

      Emerita / emeritus – why can’t we just say retired? And anyone who has been on the academic conference circuit will know full well that the title professor tells very little about a person’s qualifications to comment on anything including even the subject on which it is purported that he or she is an expert. What we can tell from this tweet is that the individual is a frightful snob with a disdain for her fellow citizens and a contempt for the electorate. But at least she is honest – in the same style as Kathy Wiles and for the same reasons.

    86. Peter Macbeastie says:

      Less educated, eh? Well, I fit that category. Less intelligent, well, I’m not the one making enormously ignorant sweeping statements about several million people on twitter. Read what you like into that.

      I will point out, naturally, that the less educated one is also total rubbish. Less education does not make you stupid, since intelligence and education are not the same thing. And when you find yourself married to someone who gained six standard grades, five Highers, a BSc (Hons) in Chemistry, a post grad doctorate in IT, and the same professional accountancy qualification as John Swinney who is also voting Yes, you are less inclined to follow Prof Stephenson’s view that ‘only the less well-educated and less intelligent’ line anyway.

      If John Curtice actually said that I would be amazed. He’s far from that stupid. Unlike his academic counterpart Professor Emerita of Modern German History, who must be a few sandwiches short of the proverbial picnic if she believes slandering both Prof Curtice and the entire independence campaign is in any way a clever thing to do.

    87. Thoughtsofascot says:

      Simple refutation:

      Reply to her twitter with the Britnat abuse bot link. The lumpen fools archived on that account completely disprove her hypothesis.

    88. The former professor references John Curtis and his opinion that the better educated will vote No .` Scottish Review`03/09/13 paragraph 6.

    89. Jimbo says:

      @ Alexicon

      “Her comments could be classed as online abuse towards YES voters.”

      Yes indeed.

      Prof’ Curtice allegedly said “It’s true that people who are in routine occupations or live in places which are relatively socially deprived are somewhat more likely to say they’re going to vote Yes in the referendum”.

      Stephenson, however, seems to assume that if you live in a socially deprived area and are less affluent, and you are pro-independence, then you are less well educated and less bright than NO voters.

      When canvassing, we should point out to people that just by dint of the fact they are living off of meagre means in one of Scotland’s socially deprived areas, a Better Together spokesperson considers them to be under-educated and stupid.

      Having a degree in Modern German History does not necessarily mean the recipient is bestowed with common sense – and is totally unaware that she comes across as showing a smug, overweening sense of superiority.

    90. heedtracker says:

      Looks like Prof Aleisbabas Tomkins is out and about blaming people for stuff Guardian CiF and read WoS too.
      https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

      “Now compare the opinion of Slovenian courts to the statement on the Wings over Scotland webpage:

      ‘She (Kathy Wiles) apparently thinks it’s fine to liken small children to the Hitler Youth because they’ve had their photograph taken under a Wings Over Scotland banner.’

      In reality, the ones who should take on full responsibility for this ‘incident’ are the PARENTS of the children who used their children for political propaganda in the first place.” endless bleh…

      So fellow unionist Prof Stephenson, is not in fact insulting Yes voters or libelling Prof Curtice, for it is he, its Yes voters fault for saying out loud, we vote Yes, like the parents at Pacific with their children on Sunday.

      Next academic nutter, perlease

    91. Vestas says:

      Need a collective name for them really.

      I like “Britwats” 🙂

    92. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      E-mail response from Prof Curtice.

      Not what I’ve said about Yes supporters. (Perhaps got confused with a very different debate about the social base of UKIP support where my words have got twisted a little).

      JC

    93. Bob Sinclair says:

      Ah, ‘Historywoman’ – I’ve had a few ‘encounters’ with her on twitter. Seems to be seriously ill informed for someone who claims Modern Germany to be her field of expertise.

    94. Les Wilson says:

      The fact that she, of all choices was given a high profile in the Times, tells me it was for a reason.
      If so it could be this, and what follows, all constructed for BT.

    95. galamcennalath says:

      yardbox says:
      I have found that the average No voter really has very limited understanding how the government works and without too much discussion falls back on a mixture of abject fear and war based jingoism.

      Yes, very well put.

      And that is why the standard of debate is so poor to date.

      True. BT is trying keep those you describe in the same frame of mind. With knowledge comes understanding which leads to the obvious conclusion that Yes is best for most Scots.

    96. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Official: Voting YES is a no-brainer.

    97. gerry parker says:

      “David Cameron has confirmed that Glasgow has become the latest city to win special funding from the Treasury, in a £500m deal to boost infrastructure investment and employment.”

      Good, £500 million the Scottish Government don’t need to give Glasgow then.

      @ Democracy reborn,
      ““We’re poor!, we’re thick!, we know the box to tick – vote YESS!, vote YESS””

      Give us a bit of warning please, didn’t have time to swallow my mouthful of tea there, near scalded ma’self.

      🙂

    98. Democracy Reborn says:

      I see from her Linkedin page that Jill is an alumni of George Watson’s Ladies College (current annual fees £10,419).

      Goin yersel Jill : you tell the “less well educated” & “less bright” working class frae the schemes how a good education makes the difference between Yes & No!

    99. Brian Powell says:

      David Cameron now offering superdooper bribe to Glasgow.

      £500 million.

    100. HandandShrimp says:

      I think for Stephenson, working class equates to thick. She probably thinks working class people communicate through a series of grunts and facial expressions. Curtice on the other hand made no such value judgement and was merely discussing voter demographics.

      I can imagine her reading a chapter of Rudyard Kipling every night before dreaming of Niall Ferguson and How Britain made the Modern World

    101. Graham says:

      Unbelievable. Professor of what? Misinformation?

    102. Frank Lynch says:

      Read her rants on the Scottish Review. They’re hyterically over the top, illogical and mean spirited. If that’s the level of argument from the cream of the crop at Scottish universities, then call me thick any day.

    103. Malegria says:

      She’s not a very good advert for Edinburgh Uni, is she? Think her attitude would definitely have turned me off if I was considering applying there as an undergraduate.

      I know I was welcome at Glasgow uni despite living in Springburn. Being the only person in my tutorial group who could read a Tom Leonard poem out loud without having to translate it only enhanced my status 😉

    104. Graham says:

      Aleisbabas – incredible nonsense. I despair.

    105. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      I wonder if the have High Table at Edinburgh University?

    106. Muscleguy says:

      As a scientist I know and have known any number of professors of various sorts and even being friends with them (shock! horror!). However with some there is a tendency to over-estimate their knowledge and understanding vis a’ vis the ‘lower orders’ and in some of these there is an allied tendency to a patrician attitude that such persons don’t value the truth so therefore they needn’t be provided with it, only fed necessary lies for reasons of societal order.

      I think this may well be one such, allied with another tendency to assume that all one’s fellow professors are of like mind. She probably thinks that Prof Curtice was being PC in his use of words, unaware that as someone professionally involved in demographics such terms are second nature and meaningful. I see nothing PC in Prof Curtice’s words and expect he is being perfectly objective at that point and means exactly and only what he is using them as.

      Prof Stephenson therefore is guilty of a lack of professional empathy and understanding. Perhaps it was that the statement was in the media not an academic paper? in which case she would be forgetting that he is a public academic which has different strictures.

      I too don’t think Prof Curtice to be strictly neutral, however I also don’t think that any bias is deliberate, it’s just cultural and generational. I think he truly is trying to be neutral.

    107. Grouse Beater says:

      Graham says: Aleisbabas – incredible nonsense.

      And a man with one hellova temper. His posts are filled with hatred.

      He detests democracy.

    108. Devereux says:

      Was in France last week (too dumb, of course, to REALLY appreciate it). A lovely English woman now living in Holland asked about the referendum. I said if it doesn’t happen this time it will within the decade, I was sure of it. Her reply? “Quite right, my dear! I would imagine this has all opened up the debate and it won’t go back.” There you go. An elderly English woman living in far-away Holland has more appreciation of the historic times we are living through than our dear old Prof Stephenson. There are none so blind who do not see.

    109. Votadini Jeannie says:

      Aw, the wee soul obviously knows nothing about people. Most academics don’t, as many of them are too far up their own arses to see what’s going on around them.

      Apart from Academics For Yes, of course…

      @orri, perhaps we should start a Group called Mensans for YES!

    110. Anne says:

      Best to debate the idea rather than attack the person.

      There are plenty in academia who are happy to vote yes in the referendum. But those who are still on the fence will be more likely to be swayed by coherent argument rather than personal attacks and misinformation.

      Speaking of which I have recently had an email from Better Together asking me to join “Academics Together”. Their one sided and misinformed statements reinforced my scepticism, but will also have annoyed those yet to make up their minds.

    111. Michael says:

      Nothing like under-estimating one’s opponents. It’s what they consistently do on the other side. My education and experience tells me that when you do that you tend not to get quite the outcome you expect. 🙂

    112. Liquid Lenny says:

      Where’s call me Dave going to get the £500 million he is promising Glasgow? With the UK on balance sheet debt hitting over 4 trillion pounds in September and with a budget deficit of over 100 billion pounds per year, he will have to borrow and the Bank of England are saying that interest rates will be going up by at least three percentage points in the foreseeable future.

      Just to service the on balance sheet debt they have at the moment which is about 1.3 trillion costs 1 billion per year, so it will cost substantially more to service their debt going forward.

      The difference between the on balance sheet debt now and what will be on the books after September is PFI and Public sector pension liabilities. Why they are bringing these on the books now is open to conjecture, they have been talking about it since Brown was in power, however perhaps they are doing this so that they can try and negotiate with Scotland to take more of it!.

      So basically he has not got 500 Billion to give Glasgow, it will probably be PFI based which will cost billions over the life of the loan.

      Whats the old saying, beware of Tories bearing gifts

    113. Muscleguy says:

      @Devereux
      The line should be: There are none so blind who will not see.

      The wilfulness of it is necessary. Simply not seeing covers ordinary ignorance whereas it is wilful ignorance that is being attacked.

    114. An Duine Gruamach says:

      I know some of her colleagues in the school of History, Classics and Archaeology at Edinburgh who are voting Yes. This shows a severe lack of respect to fellow academics, to say nothing of the yes-voting section of the population in general. Very disappointing.

      Duncan Sneddon, PhD student in Scottish History, Edinburgh.

    115. gordoz says:

      @Bugger (the Panda)

      “Not what I’ve said about Yes supporters. (Perhaps got confused with a very different debate about the social base of UKIP support where my words have got twisted a little).

      JC”

      Not much indignation there then. Sounds like this is not much of a misquote from Ms stephenson as far as the Professor is concerned – just a little different, no biggy ?????

      No need for a retraction ? Something stinks about such a response. Along the lines of condoning the comments ??

    116. No no no...Yes says:

      I think all Wingers are doing a great job of NOT falling into the traps and distractions being set by Better Together and their klingons in the media. They are a devious bunch and continued vigilance and restraint will be required. Deep breaths folks, a focus on the DEBATE will result in a 63% YES vote and the future we deserve.

    117. Gillie says:

      Fcat: The poor are more likely to vote Yes.

      Quote, Jill Stephenson, “There is another explanation, one that is current in some unionist circles. Could it be that it suits the SNP to keep Glaswegians and, presumably, others, in poverty during the referendum campaign? What would be the electoral advantage in ameliorating conditions for the poorest in society when they can be used as a perpetual reproach to the coalition government in Westminster? I can already hear the ‘shock!’, ‘horror!’ in nationalist circles. But it’s as good an explanation as any other.”

      http://www.scottishreview.net/JillStephenson141.shtml

      Conclusion by Prof Stephenson: Hence the poor are stupid.

      Cited: Prof John Curtice

    118. @brotyboy 1.38pm Yup – we are a strange bunch right enough 😉

      So – just checking, does this mean I should send my Mensa membership and International Grand Master status back then? … cos I am definitely still voting YES.

    119. Mosstrooper says:

      I’m seldom impressed by the title “professor.”

      Ever since I was told by a friend, now sadly deceased, that he refused to take redundancy from his Uni. post until he was made a professor.

      Got the title, got his redundancy package and hopped off to Italy to lecture there as a visiting prof.

      Measure the worth of the person not the title

    120. Training Day says:

      ‘Could it be that it suits the SNP to keep Glaswegians and, presumably, others, in poverty during the referendum campaign?’

      Not that Labour would stoop to keeping Glaswegians and, presumably, others in poverty for decades on end to shore up dependence on Labour, eh, Jill?

      George Watson’s Ladies College must run special courses in understanding poverty in Glasgow.

    121. gordoz says:

      @Frank Lynch – Agreed and what about this Stephenson excerpt from 2010

      “If UKIP does well in the election, or if it drives a Conservative government into an ever more Euroseptic position, I may find myself doing the unthinkable and voting SNP in the hope of achieving ‘Independence in Europe'”

      http://www.scottishreview.net/JStephenson229.html

      Would like this person on your team ??

    122. muttley79 says:

      Maybe Professor Jill Stephenson should be asking herself why growing numbers of working class Scots are supporting independence, and realise that she is supporting a horrible system of governance in Scotland from Westminster? One in which the Tories demonise the poor, the vulnerable, and less well off. Professor Stephenson, are you proud to support Tory/New labour’s uber neo-liberal rule of Scotland?

    123. bookie from hell says:

      Tom Brown—daily record complains of cyber reptiles then uses these watch words.

      unthinkable
      fear
      folly
      kneejerk
      fling
      mediocre
      tedious
      outraged
      blood.
      boredom
      tedious
      Banal
      Cretins
      broken
      tartan
      “freedom
      spasm
      bitterness
      poison
      nasty
      repulsive
      self styled patriots(funny because The Rt Hon. the Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale used the word patriot to describe himself yesterday)

    124. Doug Daniel says:

      She’s a professor? Oh dear.

      Imagine if the subject of independence had somehow cropped up when she was doing her PhD interview. After wiping the spittle off their face, the interviewee would have thought “okay, I think we’ll quietly fail this one…”

      Strange how unionism turns academics like her, Tomkins and Pennington into such irrational beasts.

    125. gordoz says:

      @Doug Daniel

      Such Professor type beasts would miss the GB ‘Gravy train’
      ’cause you know research will end with independence.

      The treasury committee said so.

    126. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @heraldnomore –

      re: Beattie show mentioning PQ demo –

      Many thanks. I’ll find it via the I-player.

    127. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Liquid Lenny

      It will come off the Barnett Formula.

      Simples

      Redistributes directly and bypasses Holyrood.

      Do you see what they are doing?

      Marginalising Holyrood.

      Expect that to the the modus operendi post a No vote.

      Lower than a snake’s belly.

    128. Bob Leslie says:

      Duh, maybe she am rite. Finking make my hed hurt. Funy fing tho, most of mi old cauleegs must be fick too cos dey voting YES as well.
      Bob Leslie
      BA Hons (1st), MPhil, PhD, TQFE, PGDipIT

    129. muttley79 says:

      @bookie from hell

      Poor old Tom Brown does not change one bit does he? I wonder what circumstance(s) would make him ever support independence? He clearly much prefers Tory/New Labour misrule to self government. Privatisations, food banks, illegal wars, massive corruption, huge inequalities in wealth and opportunities, and the general almost complete shafting of society. Yet Tom Brown still supports Westminster rule over Scotland.

    130. gordoz says:

      O/T

      Nice to see scaremongering from BBSTVC flounder with news of Ryanair expanding routes in Scotland and promoting SNP view to scrap APD (as in Ireland / huge boon to tourism).

      Hope the constituents around Prestwick see Labour for what they are, past news and failed opportunists. To play politics and scaremonger with a ‘non story’ (+ gleeful Twitter traffic and assertion) togehter with MSM was shameful.

      Remember folks this is what you get with Labour; gutter politics. Time to move on.
      A reformed (truly socialist) Labour party of Scotland is required.

      Cut the ‘sleaze infested’ / ‘The Thick of it’ ties with London Labopur guys and do it fast.

    131. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      Forgot to mention that I left Mensa after a year or so, might not have been that long. Various reasons most practical being that there seemed little point in paying to go to meetings in pubs when you could do so for free. To be fair I later joined a group that meets in pubs but it’s a lot more fun.

      Other than that the people I met seemed to either be people who were a little weird, which is a bit superfluous when I’m around, and some who were a bit miserable about not being higher in their career. I’m more of a slacker and proud. The general elitist overtones of the newsletter seemed on the distasteful side I could have done without seeing the word Densa.

      Far as Jimmy Saville is concerned, never met him and didn’t know he was a member, Clive Sinclair was bad enough. I seem to remember some petitioning regarding the lowering of the age of consent for gay men but seemed more of an intellectual side than not. In retrospect it was a lot easier to be classed as a paedo if you were gay due to that being set at 21, these days you really have to deserve it.

      On the subject of Emeritus/Emerita the point is that you don’t have to be retired to get it, have been a professor, or have passed an exam. It can be a bit like an honourary degree. http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/212271.Jill_Stephenson

      Would tend to suggest that she’s a fairly prolific writer and might tempt a university department to give her a post simply based on that.

      http://www.amazon.com/Women-Nazi-Germany-Jill-Stephenson/dp/0582418364

      Has her position as Reader, so she actually was in academia at some point. However she probably wasn’t allowed to play with the children.

    132. heedtracker says:

      I think the whole teamGB establishment equates working class with duh duh thick and our garbage press/BBC show this every day. Look at the Snatcher Thatcher de regulated anti union revolution. The Tories and Westminster anihalated the union movement in the yew kay and destroyed certainly Scottish heavy industry but did they mess with big cartel monopolies like lawyers? Not a chance.

    133. Donald Kerr says:

      I had a twitter ding dong with her a month or so ago and I had to check that it wasn’t a parody account. Let’s just say that one would expect so much more from an academic.

    134. muttley79 says:

      @Bugger

      Yes, this is the fate of Scotland if we vote No. Cameron and Mathieson deciding how Scotland is governed. Barnett formula scrapped, Holyrood will be completely bypassed, as the Brit Nats do deals between themselves. Say hello to privatisation of the NHS, tuition fees of £9,000 a year, say goodbye to any protection against austerity, continuing cuts to welfare and pensions, free prescriptions, bus passes etc.

      The choice could not be more stark. I really, really fear a No vote. We will get utterly, utterly shafted by the British state, and their “Proud Scot” cheerleaders.

    135. BigRik says:

      No doubt she thinks East Germany was better off being controlled from Moscow, with the security of a larger family of nations 🙂

    136. gordoz says:

      O/T

      On the upside >> Facebook pages

      Scottish Labour 2,600 likes

      Labour for Indy 5,867 likes

    137. Matthew Miller says:

      Jill Stevenson believes there will be actual border controls. Hardly the conclusion of a genius. Lets not give her what she wants, ignore her.

    138. Jim Marshall says:

      I have been very impressed with the eloquent and articulate posts on this thread from the Wings regulars.I do hope the ignoramus Jill Stephenson has read them as it would perhaps help to dissuade her from her narrow British Nationalism.

    139. No no no...Yes says:

      “One of the most compelling voices in support of the Union” says the Times.

      Who are the other compelling voices?

      Alistair Darling………..Inaudible mumble
      Alistair Carmichael…..Help me Rona, help help me Rona
      David Cameron……….So compelling he is too feart to have a debate

      The public have heard them all, our survey says “No thanks “

    140. Iain (orri) McCord says:

      There’s a reason Prestwick airport is where it is. Rather than a rail link to either Glasgow or Edinburgh the priority should be upgrading the line to there.

    141. muttley79 says:

      @BigRik

      There was an article on Bella Caledonia a wee while ago, which was amusing. Apparently Janey Buchan (possibly an MEP?/before my time), a prominent former SLAB member, had a go at a Russian representative about allowing the break up of the Soviet Union!! 😀 😀 She was an arch unionist, and hated the SNP, and independence with a passion. That is the mind-set of some of these characters we were/ still are up against. Gorgeous George Galloway was also distraught at the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe.

    142. Craig P says:

      Hmm

      I’m thick and hate foreigners.

      Is Jill Stephenson now telling me I am a Yes voter?

      Confused.

    143. les says:

      Any one seen the piece by Tim Montgomery if the times today about Spending cuts….page 23

    144. Gillie says:

      Pollsters going to war.

      http://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/07/01/why-do-polls-scotland-vary-so-much/

      http://survation.com/response-to-yesterdays-times-yougov-articles-and-yougovs-published-research-about-survations-scottish-independence-methodology/

      Survation concludes, “we do not believe that the evidence presented by Peter Kellner in this unusual critical exercise is sufficient to support any claims that:

      a) Survation, ICM, Panelbase and others are wrong to use 2011 Holyrood vote as their choice of weighting target in Scotland

      b) YouGov’s methods necessarily represent a more ‘accurate’ snapshot of current Scottish opinion

      or, consequently

      C) That the current state of the Scottish independence race is definitely much less tight than the consensus figures of various pollsters suggest

      the practice of commissioning your own research solely for the purpose of criticizing another polling company’s methodology seems, in our view, to be unprecedented in the industry and not something that we would wish to repeat.”

    145. Haggis Hunter says:

      Professor or not, it doesnt mean a thing, its just someone with a rather skewed opinion.
      I know people who can tell you the square root of a pickle jar, but cannae get the lid aff it.

    146. Proud Cybernat says:

      Proud Cybernat would like to invite Jill Stephenson to a chess match (best of three). Proud Cybernat is no dunce at chess, being the Scottish Schools Chess Champion in 1980.

      Okay, Ms Stephenso, I’ll go first:

      1. P-K4

      Your move. Let’s see how bright you are.

      (Oh, BTW, we have something on common – I’m into history too. Several books published on the pyramid-building-age of ancient Egypt, 3rd/4th Dynasty). We could swap notes – one smarty-pants to another.

    147. joe kane says:

      Elitist contempt for the opinions of ordinary members of the general public are always a joy to behold.

      Has any professor of German history ever explained historical change being due to German people being a bit thick?

      I’d love to read a transcript of a discussion between esteemed academic brainboxes History Jill and Dr Bettina Bildhauer on the topic Scottish independence. I don’t think BBC Scotlandshire, Rose Garnett or Greg Moodie could do it justice – “Cybernats: Nazis or thickos? Discuss.”

      Graduation Address by Dr Bettina Bildhauer
      Bella Caledonia

    148. Sinky says:

      Day Tripper Cameron and his Labour / Lib Dem little helpers forget that Glasgow benefited from OVER HALF of capital spending projects in Scotland, totalling billions of pounds:

      Completion of the M74 – £700m
      Southern General Hospital – £842m
      Glasgow City Centre College campus – £300m
      Glasgow School of Art upgrade – £50m
      National Indoor Sports Arena – £116
      M80 Stepps to Haggs improvements – £320m

    149. crazycat says:

      @muttley79

      Janey Buchan (widow of Norman) was MEP for Glasgow when there were first-past-the-post Euro constituencies.

    150. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Ian McCord

      I believe that, apart from yourself, there is at least one other Mensa person on here.

      Actually, there are hunners of us, in fact all of us.

    151. @Gillie Mm? the one thing they haven’t taken on board is how many of us have stopped doing the YouGov polls after their blatant bias earlier this year.

      In my group – the playground Mums – 27 of us have stopped completing the Yougov polls. If that is common across the country then their sampling is all to pot anyhow.

      We haven’t moved to no – we have just stopped playing with them!

    152. Gillie says:

      Can’t wait for Jill Stephenson’s new book;

      “Nationalismus für Dummkopfs”

      Should be a belter.

    153. CameronB Brodie says:

      Perhaps the good professor entered university directly from school, then progressed straight into her academic career. She may have very limited ‘life experience’ in the ‘real world’. Not someone I would take much notice of and certainly not someone who’s sentiment I would take to heart..

      I defend the view that evaluative concepts are phenomenal, which leads to a new position in moral psychology. For example, in order to master the concept ‘moral ’, humans need to experience such sentiments as empathy, guilt and remorse. This means that sentiments are indispensable in human agency. My position borrows insights from philosophy of mind and from empirical studies.

      https://www.academia.edu/5361248/Evaluative_Concepts_are_Phenomenal

      Re. the bung to Glasgow. I’ve not ready the realated article, but it may be linked to the money England is getting, on top of HS2.

      http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/01/northern-cities-localism-business-capital-economy

    154. Robert Peffers says:

      @Packhorse Pete says: 3 July, 2014 at 12:58 pm

      “One assumes a Professor is well-educated. However, it doesn’t follow that education makes them bright.”

      How right you are. Here’s a wee true story. At the main entrance to a former, well known, Fife County Mental Asylum. I was visiting a former workmate. There was always a few inmates to be found sitting on the wall next to the main gate. This was the main Bus Stop to the nearby town.

      One evening a car load of Doctors were exiting the gates when they realised their car had a punctured tyre. They pulled up and were in the process of putting on the spare tyre when they had an unfortunate accident. In those days cars had hub caps and the person changing the wheel had placed the four wheel nuts in that hub cap – then stood on its edge. This before the days of mobile phones.

      Four wheel nuts promptly dropped into a seiver and the good Doctors were stuck with a three wheeled car. After a while an inmate wandered over and asked what was the problem. Not to put too fine a point on it he was treated as an idiot by the Good Doctors and more or less abused by them.

      At this point the inmate picked up the wheelbrace and proceeded to remove a single wheelnut from each of the other three wheels, used the three nuts to afix the spare to the car and advised the Good Doctors to drive carefully to the nearest garage and buy some wheel nuts.

      The Doctors thanked the inmate and opined he should probably not remain a patient in the Asylum. To which the patient replied, “Aye! Weel ye micht nae mind me bit Ah mind a four o you. Ye aa sat oan the panel whit sectioned me the last time Ah pit in tae get oot”.

      I have no idea if the chap was released or not but have to admit he certainly out thought me as I didn’t spot that quite obvious solution either.

    155. Helena Brown says:

      Gillie says: Quote, Jill Stephenson, “There is another explanation, one that is current in some unionist circles. Could it be that it suits the SNP to keep Glaswegians and, presumably, others, in poverty during the referendum campaign? What would be the electoral advantage in ameliorating conditions for the poorest in society when they can be used as a perpetual reproach to the coalition government in Westminster? I can already hear the ‘shock!’, ‘horror!’ in nationalist circles. But it’s as good an explanation as any other.”

      I note that the Scottish Review says the woman is a former Professor of German Modern History, so what does the shrew do now apart from screeching on Twitter.

    156. Cozmiester says:

      She is retired although you would not think so judging by her Twitter bio

    157. Maureen Luby says:

      Nicola’s reply to the Glasgow offer:- Thu, 03/07/2014 – 14:52
      Commenting on Prime Minister David Cameron’s offer to Glasgow today, Scotland’s Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said:

      “I can confirm that the Scottish Government will match in full the funding announced today by the UK government – a proposal which we understand consists of just £15 million a year for the first five years, with future years’ funding contingent on a review at the end of the first five year period.

      “Of course, the UK’s proposed £15 million a year is dwarfed by the Scottish Government’s on-going investment in Glasgow. Investment in the Commonwealth Games, the new Southern General hospital, Fastlink and the Glasgow Subway improvements alone amounts to a massive £1.5 billion in capital spend – that is Scottish Government investment in jobs and infrastructure happening now. We have also provided capital funding of £1.1 billion to Glasgow City Council since 2008.

      “As well as matching the UK government funding now, we will also guarantee this funding to Glasgow when Scotland becomes independent. However, unlike the UK Government, we will ensure that all of Scotland’s cities can benefit as well – which is the intention of our recently announced Growth Accelerator funding model. Indeed, it is regrettable that the UK government has offered nothing to any of Scotland’s other cities, including Danny Alexander’s home City of Inverness.

      “Today’s announcement shows that the referendum has made the UK government sit up and take notice of Scotland – the only way to avoid the situation where we get ignored again post-September is to vote Yes and take responsibility for Scotland’s vast resources, for the benefit of our cities and indeed communities the length and breadth of Scotland.

      “Independence will provide Scotland with the full range of economic levers other countries in Europe take for granted, so we can grow our working population, increase productivity, boost exports and innovation and reindustrialise Scotland’s economy.”

    158. Kev says:

      Someone better tell Ivan McKee and all the other Business Leaders over at Business For Scotland that employ hundereds of people and generate millions in tax revenues that they’ve got their numbers wrong, they cannae use a calculator and must have secured their positions through nothing but pure luck, yous are all numpties chaps, time to move aside and let the more educated types drive the economy.

    159. Richard says:

      But Prof Curtice belives Mr Kellner “has slightly missed the point”. Almost all of the unweighted samples used by pollsters in the Scottish referendum are weighted so to increase the size of the Yes vote. There are no shenanigans here; older people in higher social classes are more likely to complete polls, especially via internet panels. They are also more likely to vote No. Pollsters have to make a call, then, about how much to adjust tallies upwards
      http://blogs.ft.com/off-message/2014/07/03/are-pollsters-exaggerating-the-yes-vote-in-scotland/

      Is this where Jill has picked up her opinion?

    160. BigRik says:

      If people who went to the so called better schools are to be believed, then Boris Johnson must be one of the most intelligent people in Britain… OMG, we are screwed.

    161. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Just had an email response from Prof. Stephenson in which she denies using the words ‘less bright’…”

      Wait, she DENIES using the words that are in her OWN TWEET? Who does she say wrote them?

    162. HandandShrimp says:

      What is the Tweet equivalent of Fraped? Twaped? Maybe a naughty cyberundergradate got at her computer

    163. Caroline Corfield says:

      if the experiences of the ‘regeneration’ of West Dunbartonshire, specifically the site of John Browns in Clydebank is anything to go by, the bribe of £500m will not produce any meaningful to the population of Glasgow… and it’s so obviously a bribe I don’t think it will change anybody’s mind

      https://www.facebook.com/WestDunbartonshireOppositionCouncillors/posts/282120798605871

      http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/clyde-cash-runs-out-149265n.23241457

    164. muttley79 says:

      @crazycat

      Janey Buchan (widow of Norman) was MEP for Glasgow when there were first-past-the-post Euro constituencies.

      Thanks for that. If the article on BC is correct, she apparently combined being a supporter of communism with an ardent form of unionism, some might even say British nationalism. Very interesting mix of political ideologies there.

    165. Dorothy Devine says:

      Brilliant Irn Bru ad – thanks LL!

      I have met many daft academics in my lifetime many of whom I would not have trusted with my dog.

    166. IcySpark says:

      @ Rev Stu

      Hmm that’s odd, as she has apologised on her twitter for using the term “less bright”

      https://twitter.com/Historywoman/status/484690485253251072

    167. Taranaich says:

      “Less well-educated and less bright.”

      Let’s break this down: what does she mean by “less well-educated”? Does she simply mean the uneducated, or those who are educated, but not quite well enough? Does she mean academic education? State or Private? College? University? Is she including the many different disciplines of education?

      And “less bright”: what system is she using to define “brightness”? The discredited IQ test? How does she define who is bright, and who isn’t? Is it the person with encyclopaedic knowledge of economics who can’t understand basic social situations, or the person with a wide knowledge of many subjects but mastery of none which is “bright”? Both? Neither?

      That comment thread on Twitter is enlightening, as for all its blustering about Yes lying, there’s precious little evidence of that. Sometimes it seems like when No lies, Yes tells you what they believe the truth is; but when Yes lie, you’re just meant to take No’s word for it.

      Also love how they mention the dearth of quality/popular pro-Union blogs in comparison to NewsNet, Wings and Bella – you’d think if there was a strong enough argument, we couldn’t move for the passionate, intelligent, reasonable and above all factual No sites, rather than the spiteful poisonous nonsense of Notes from North Britain et al.

    168. Neil MacKenzie says:

      She has apologised for her use of “Less Bright”, she’s not quoting Prof. Curtis but agreeing with her own interpretation of one of his reports.
      This is distracting from the debate, let’s move on with the positive campaign?

    169. Caroline Corfield says:

      oh yes forgot to mention BSc Physics (Hons)

    170. Neil MacKenzie says:

      Jill Stephenson ?@Historywoman 2h
      I apologise unreservedly for using the term ‘less bright’ about yes voters. The point about a tendency to be ‘less well-educated’ remains.

    171. Andy-B says:

      O/T. Obama voted the worst US President since WWII, why am I not surprised.

      http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/barack-obama-considered-americas-worst-president-since-wwii-9580812.html

    172. westie7 says:

      Glasgow Special Funding? aka Bribe!

      How does that work for devolved powers like Rail for example? Will the cost of the Bribe element of special powers with respect to the Rail Link result in a cut in the block grant for transport?

    173. IcySpark says:

      @ Rev Stu

      You’ve been likened to a cute puppy dog by STV news (3rd story down).

      http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/analysis/281414-indyref-daily-stvs-briefing-on-independence-referendum-campaign/

    174. Gillie says:

      Kellner getting pulverised.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/are-peter-kellner-and-yougov-yes.html

      “Notwithstanding, perhaps the greater implications lie in the referendum debate itself. With other polling companies showing a narrowing of the forecast Yes/No result, the Better Together campaign take much succour from YouGov’s consistently strong forecast of an emphatic No vote (and its effect on the many Poll of Polls type averages). Better Together’s Campaign Director Blair McDougall (not to mention Labour activist Ian Smart) have much tongue-in-cheek fun tweeting ‘no room for complacency’, but if Kellner is wrong then Better Together really do have no room for complacency, but will thanks to Kellner remain blind to the need to alter strategy. So in addition to imperilling his own career and business, Kellner may yet turn out to be massively assisting Yes Scotland in bringing about the end of the United Kingdom.

    175. Brandon Flowers says:

      I wonder how much of a numpty Professor Stephenson will feel when her superior, the poorly educated Professor Tom Devine, eventually declares his support for independence.

    176. John Glyn says:

      Now that really is a completely ridiculous comment on her behalf. Not that I wish to denigrate any side, but going by general observation of arguments exchanged in the debate I would say that the very opposite is closer to the truth.

    177. Clootie says:

      @Bugger (the Panda) says:
      3 July, 2014 at 12:18 pm

      Did you mean Fear or Dear (Freudian or typo?)

    178. Vestas says:

      Its about time Kellner got a bit more attention.

      I’ve never trusted YouGov because Kellner is involved – I’ve always thought it was dodgy since day one.

      Now we know.

      YouGov to rest of polling industry :

      “You’re too stupid….”

      I wonder what he’ll be made lord of…….

    179. handclapping says:

      The Edinburgh History Department has been a Labour hotbed since before they gave Gordo his PhD. I doubt Prof Devine will be a Yes unless Alan Grogan and Labour for Indy are carving a massive swathe through ordinary Labour supporters

    180. CameronB Brodie says:

      A cheery wee OT. The Courier front page. 🙂

      http://imgur.com/oT42QXP

    181. Andy-B says:

      @Nana Smith.

      Thanks for the link Nana.

      It seems wee Willie Rennie can’t stand the heat in the kitchen. yet during FMQ’s he’s not shy at belting out his point. I would say the Lib/Dems are now virtually irrelevant, since they’ve kowtowed to the Tories, and won’t be forgiven anytime soon.

    182. Vestas says:

      @ Nana Smith

      What does he expect?

      Two tories stand up & start laying into Sheridan (well Rennie did because I’ve seen the video) who frankly does very well not to bite. He waits his moment & then responds.

      Rennie got riled by the barracking (Tory boy) he got, tried to shout his way through with more stuff aimed at Sheridan rather than anything to do with independence debates and made matters worse. He then totally lost the plot.

      There’s a link to the video of this somewhere on here (not this thread).

      tl;dr two tories got up, two tories annoyed audience, Sheridan slapped them down at the end. Very little to do with independence, more to do with class warfare IMHO.

    183. Andy-B says:

      @CameronB Brodie.

      Dundee votes YES, and above the headline Prince Willie with head in hands, priceless.

    184. heedtracker says:

      Ha! Hope George Galloway takes the Dundee Courier. They probably caught his stand up comedy tour.

    185. Marcia says:

      CameronB Brodie

      Difficult to read – the figures were 51% Yes 38% No 11% undecided by those who cast a vote at their recent Dundee Referendum Roadshows through out the city. I would have thought it would be more mature people who were able to cast a vote during the day.

    186. Clootie says:

      Hold on a second.

      Jill Stephenson has made an observation about the education level or intellect of YES voters. No data or research by the academic just assertion. Rather unexpected from a person trained in research.

      In my view she is 180degs off the mark. In particular during any form of street or stall debate the YES campaigners win because they are better informed. I would also argue that her comments are inaccurate as regards to formal education. However unlike her I do not think that formal education has any bearing on your ability to reason.

      As a dry measure the number of Academics / Engineers and Managers within my own group is quite significant.

      Her case appears to be – “If you consider voting YES then you must be thick”. “It therefore follows that thick people vote YES”. I would suggest that she should stick to History as the discussion of Future events requires a different skill set.

    187. Vestas says:

      Thinking about it isn’t this a step up? 😀

      I mean only a few months ago we “weren’t genetically programmed to take decisions” isn’t it?

      Now we’re just too stupid to decide.

      At this rate of “evolution” it’ll be a landslide Yes vote.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      Marcia
      I didn’t even try to read it, so thanks for the details. 😉

      Fantastic that support is over 50%, though I would expect this to grow as we approach September. The No side have already lost, IMO, and we haven’t even had any significant input from the major Yes players.

      Andy-B
      I smiled. 🙂

    189. Andy-B says:

      Chancellor or chancer George Osborne refuses to answer kid when the kid asks him what 7×8 adds up to. No wonder the UK’s sinking in a sea of debt.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/uk-politics-video/10942805/Chancellor-George-Osborne-loves-Pharrell-Williams.html

    190. X_Sticks says:

      Sorry O/T

      “Looking for a petition of RT who say they have been warned off by the Regulator about covering anything to do with politics of the Scottish Referendum and the #BBCBias against the YES Campaign.”

      Petition by
      Jordi McArthur
      Glasgow, United Kingdom

      http://tinyurl.com/kpxnk6k

    191. Murray McCallum says:

      I see the University Professor has qualified her opinion to a tendency for Yes voters to be “less well-educated”.

      That’s another odd thing to say. Not everyone can be as well educated as Cambridge-educated Unionist Nick Griffin.

      Maybe one’s level of formal education is not that reflective of one’s ability to smell sh1te?

    192. Neil MacKenzie says:

      Murray McCallum says:
      “Maybe one’s level of formal education is not that reflective of one’s ability to smell sh1te?”

      True

    193. Martin says:

      I have, probably, a similar number of letters after my name as Jill and I am voting yes. Am I in the wrong or is she?

    194. Jim Condie says:

      My wife is also a professor, with 5 degrees, a former deputy principal, a former vice dean, currently working for UNICEF in Malawi setting up their education system, one of the country’s leading authorities on Education and a Yes voter. She is not impressed either!

    195. Martin says:

      No, actually, forget that. I’ve worked it out. I’ve been tainted by all the poor/stupid people I meet daily in my line of work. And they’re generally sick, too. Double yessers!

    196. Muscleguy says:

      @CameronB Brodie

      As someone who ‘went straight from school into university then an academic career’ I disagree with you that I know ‘nothing about real life’.

      My wife and I married at the start of third year, our eldest was born at the end of that year, the youngest 19 months later. We were officially poor and have the cards issued by the NZ govt entitling us to things like cheaper (note still not free) GP visits and prescriptions. We know why it is more expensive to live poor, been there done that, patched the jeans till they fell apart (after being converted to shorts then cannibalised for patches for other pairs).

      When my PhD stipend ended and I was forced to apply for the dole they made us ‘stand down’ for 4 weeks despite our income being less than the married dole. Even after they cut the dole by 7% we were still better off, slightly.

      My wife and I both worked as undergrads and postgrads out in the community both in the holidays (every one I had, not just summer) and in and around the university. You try spending your day small group problem solving in teaching labs and then your evening earning pin money tutoring. Work doesn’t have to be physical to be draining.

      By denigrating academics who work hard (you should try the working week of a postdoctoral scientist) in comparison to the ‘real world’ you demonstrate your ignorance of one part of it.

    197. bookie from hell says:

      guardian

      Can you be Scottish And British?

      pic of flags–Union Jack/Saltire

      English and Scottish flags held up over Edinburgh, Scotland. Photograph: David Cheskin/PA Archive/Press Association Ima

      just changed caption

      Union and Scottish flags held up over Edinburgh, Scotland. Photograph: David Cheskin/PA Archive/Press Association Ima

      Heres the apology

      Huge apologies for that caption error and thanks to those of you who let us know, particularly those of you who noticed it’s occurred before. I’ve amended the caption and we’ll go into the system to make sure it’s correct there too.

      It wasn’t a individual,the mistake was on system

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/03/can-you-be-scottish-and-british?commentpage=1

    198. Andrew says:

      Slightly off topic.

      The Yes shop in Stirling is crowdfunding for four advert trailers to cover the Stirling constituency. These will be vital in helping to secure a Yes vote in the forthcoming referendum.

      We would appreciate the help of you, the readers of this site, as you have been generous in the past in helping other similar causes.

      Our crowd funding page is at:

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-ad-trailer-campaign

      Please visit and donate what you can afford. If you are unable to donate then please help by sharing this link on Facebook and Twitter.

      Thank you for your support.

    199. Patrick Roden says:

      OT but Dynamite if true!

      This linked publication is claiming that they have information that private polling information was presented to a high level meeting of Better Together.

      It showed One Third and RISING, said they were voting Yes.

      One Third and FALLING, said they would be voting No.

      One Third DK.

      Can this possibly be the secret polling that BT were shown but the rest of us cant see because it’s private?

      No wonder they are so desperate.

      http://www.marketingmagazine.co.uk/article/1298311/better-together-recruits-david-camerons-former-strategy-director-andrew-cooper

    200. Grouse Beater says:

      For those interested –

      The supposed chunk of largesse for Glasgow and ‘thousands of new jobs’ offered by Cameron today as a headline winner turns out not be a bribe at all to vote No, but an inducement to capitulate to Westminster rule.

      In fact, it’s a phantom offer.

      He has challenged the Scottish government to provide the other £500 million needed. Very generous of him.

      Why would Scotland’s government divert £500 million from its already allocated budget, in Referendum year! to help Westminster claim it saved the Union?

    201. Grouse Beater says:

      BfH asks: Can you be Scottish And British?

      According to my new passport received today, I’m only British.

    202. Harry McAye says:

      O/T Very strange survey results from the Courier. Yes 40% No 51% yet in their ping pong polls which seemingly ran alongside the survey, of the results that I wrote down,(I may have missed a handful) Yes won 23 out of 31, No won 7 and one was 50-50.

      Our electronic surveys were conducted individually, face-to-face by Courier staff.

      At the roadshows there was also a “ping pong poll” to take a daily snapshot of people’s feelings, the results of which did not feed into the official survey.

    203. Jim Thomson says:

      On the subject of “we’s all fik”, my household has four degreed peeps in it with a collective 2 x BA; 2 x BSc(hons); 2 x MSc.

      Two of whom are moving on to BA(hons) and one currently a PhD student. All of us voting Yes.

      I think the lady prof doth protest too much.

    204. manandboy says:

      Irrespective of one’s academic qualifications –
      or lack of them –
      intelligence, which will seek out the truth,
      does not support a No vote.

      It is only by setting aside intelligence
      in favour of ignorance, fear or prejudice,
      that voting No seems the ‘right’ choice.

      Me? I think it’s a ‘no brainer’.

      I’m after self-determination
      for the people of an independent Scotland.

      After that
      we can work it out.

      The dogs in the street know that.

      Apparently.

    205. Robert Peffers says:

      I’m still trying to figure out how Dave, the UK PM, knows this, “Silent Majority”, he speaks of are NOT the same people demanding he debate the matter with Alex Salmond?

      They may even be, “Don’t Knows”, or even, “Don’t Cares”, for, being silent, we Don’t Know who, what or why they are silent.

      My own thoughts are that they are YES voters who are frightened to speak out due to a fear of being bayoneted by Ian Davidson and his faction, called Nazis by Alistair Darling and his faction or seen as viruses by Johann Lamont and her faction.

      They may even just be frightened of getting death treats like both the First Minister and his deputy FM. It might just be that they don’t want their children to be called Hitler Youths by candidates or prospective candidates.

      Personally I sometimes just don’t say anything as I don’t want swastikas scrawled on my property.

    206. Cath says:

      Her Twitter bio says “Emeritus Professor of History at Edinburgh University. 100% Scottish – 100% unionist. Can see through bluff, bluster and bullying at 100 paces”

      Seriously? What intelligent person puts on a professional Twitter bio that they are 100% 100% Saying you’re either of those things, even down the pub after a few would mark you as not a brilliantly intelligent or insightful thinker. Admitting it in a professional bio…

      Also, I’ve seen her around the BT pages as well I think. How can you be on them for 2 years without realising how thick and extremist (not to mention abusive) a lot of those people you’re talking to are? But then BT seems to have managed to drag everyone down to that level of discourse.

    207. Cath says:

      Gah, sorry, used html tags again!

      What intelligent person puts on a professional Twitter bio that they are 100% [nationality] 100% [political ideology]

    208. Liquid Lenny says:

      Bugger the Panda

      You are correct in your assumption, is there any other occasion when the UK Government has bypassed the Scottish Government on Infrastructure funding?

      It really is a lot of money, they have promised 15 million per annum for 5 years which works out at 125 pence per person per annum in the Greater Glasgow area. These figures may be wrong as being a YES voter I’m too stupid to work these things out 🙂 15 Million per annum divided by 1.2 million people.

    209. JLT says:

      Aw crap. 1 degree in the bag. Presently sitting another. Obviously 2 in one lifetime is not good enough. Damn the Scottish education system…

    210. Ken500 says:

      What to chose?

      Cameron £500Million to Glasgow over 20 years – £25Million a year

      Or An Independent Scotland – £4.2Billion 2017 to 2019

      Hard choice?

      Vote YES

    211. Brian Powell says:

      There were plenty of well educated people running the establishment when the financial markets crashed, the Libor scandal blossomed, the gold market manipulation happened(still happening), illegal wars started, illegal mass surveillance was put in place, MPs illegally lined their pockets etc etc.

      Doesn’t mean squit.

    212. Ken500 says:

      Cameron wants others to speak out but will not debate. What a joke.

    213. CameronB Brodie says:

      Muscleguy
      Not meaning to be overly blunt, but you have inferred that which I did not imply. Also, if you re-read my comment, you will see I made specific reference to the “good professor” and not academics in general.

      No worries. 😉

    214. Marcia says:

      Harry McAye

      The Courier Roadshow staff stopped people passing by and is no way representative of the population at large. I saw one Roadshow in Dundee and noticed that nearly all the ones that I saw being interviewed were mostly but not exclusively mature people. When they completed their little survey they asked the participant to place a yellow ping pong ball for Yes or a white ping ball for No.

      From memory the questions were, 1) how are you going to vote 2) Do you think about the No campaign 3) Same – Yes Campaign and finally Did you vote in 2011 and if so for whom?

    215. Oui Things says:

      And finally…Dearie me! If Jimmy Krankie, and now Professor Enema are telling me i’m too stupit to wipe my ain erse. We must be at part 3 of the too wee, too poor, too stupid argument.

      Thing is, you don’t need an education to know when you’re being shafted.

    216. galamcennalath says:

      You can tell Jill Stephenson doesn’t get out much. She seems to have missed out on what’s happening around the country. Then again, she’s not alone. Not for many years have so many people become engaged in political debate. There is excitment and optimism about one possible future. Hundred’s of thousands of Scots have high expectations. If any NaeSayers think they can actually win outright on September 18th then they just haven’t been looking at the groundswell.

      A No win will be seen by a huge minority of Scots as a victory by lies, deceit and manipulation. We will not go quietly into the night. It won’t take long for many No voters to realise they have made a big mistake!

      If it’s a Yes, then to paraphrase that arch-Unionist, Churchill … “Now this is not the end. But it is, perhaps, the beginning of the end.”

      If it’s a No, then his actual words might apply … “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

    217. Michael McCabe says:

      So Jill is a Professor of History. I hope she is looking forward to seeing History in the Making come September. Vote Yes Jill you know it makes Sense.

    218. heedtracker says:

      For richer or poorer, next week BBC Bob Peston will do his bit to destroy Scottish democracy, with the most annoying English accent in the empire.

    219. ronnie anderson says:

      noo Diddy Daves opening the purse strings, mibbe’s noo’s the time tae get that Big Wheel an yon Big Bendy Clock,Im thinking o sending him some of ma Big Boys Nappies cause the shits sure fawing oota him, na fk it he can buy his ain.

    220. Liquid Lenny says:

      ken500

      Apparently all they have promised is 15 Million a year for five years (75 Million) then a review…

    221. handclapping says:

      Of course both Profs are wrong. Prof C is mixing up the occupational classification of C2 D E which does show a tendency to be more Yes in most polls with educational attainment. However with life being as it is there are those, perhaps with degrees in Modern German History, whose lot in life is to flip burgers ( class D ) despite or because of their educational attainment or even to be unemployed ( class E ). This is naughty for a psephologist.

      Prof S is guilty of selecting a factoid of which she is not certain and embroidering it as the evidence of her hypothesis. This generally should entail failure at PhD level.

    222. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: BBC’s Peston – the most annoying English accent in the empire.

      Is it the odd…. hesitancy…. that suddenly quickens pace-over-the-last-words-of-his-sentence…. finishing emphatically?

      Oh, and the £5 million BBC placed at the disposal of the Referendum debate so far appears to be distributed between BBC staffers and second-rate comedians.

    223. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      “For richer or poorer, next week BBC Bob Peston will do his bit to destroy Scottish democracy, with the most annoying English accent in the empire.”

      He puts it on. He went for professional voice lessons, i presume its an ego thing.

    224. Murray McCallum says:

      We must remember that Danny Alexander works in the UK Treasury.

      5 x 15 = 500

      It’s a really simple calculation for the well-educated Treasury boffins.

    225. john king says:

      £500million wow
      that must be a mind boggling sum to the genius who thinks thinks the Queen brings in 20 million quid a year,
      but remember that’s over 20 years which is the equivalent of every Glaswegian finding and reclaiming the deposit on a ginger bottle ,oh at least once a week for the next twenty years!

    226. john king says:

      Oh btw talks cheap.

    227. JGedd says:

      I don’t think Jill Stephenson’s tweet deserves much reflection. She intended to be hurtful and catty as her last sentence demonstrates. She is evidently class conscious and feels that the union protects her position of privilege and entitlement.

      It is probably why again no one, not even someone of her status, can give us an intellectually valid case for the union since their support of the union is based mainly on maintaining the system which has served them so well. In other words based on pure self-interest, dress it up how they may. Like Labour MPs, they have made it into the citadel and want to haul up the drawbridge behind them.

      There are many people on the side of Yes who have also done well within the union but believe in a society in which social justice is promoted. As I commented before, we have Alasdair Gray, James Kelman, Liz Lochhead, James Robertson and many more on our side. In that company, why would Yes voters care about the likes of Jill Stephenson and her snide comments?

    228. Onwards says:

      I don’t know if publicising this woman’s silly quote is helpful. There are plenty of reasons why lower income areas might have a higher YES vote, including more of a chance of actually getting the type of government they vote for.

      But if unionists can dumb down the referendum to a kind of waitrose/tesco snobbery then they will use that tactic.

      It’s the same with the ‘hitler youth’ woman.
      She quit, but again this site is featured on the BBC and papers alongside that image, again getting mass attention.

      It seems like a huge amount of referendum debate has been taken over by the ‘abuse’ issue for the last month.

      I don’t know if it is helping to win any votes.

    229. ronnie anderson says:

      @CameronB Brodie, you asked yesterday if you we,re getting a book coupon fur useing a big word, nos yer no,
      but if your at the Newsroom I,ll gie you a Purple Ronnie Book

    230. john king says:

      Handandshrimp says

      HandandShrimp says:
      3 July, 2014 at 2:01 pm
      I think for Stephenson, working class equates to thick. She probably thinks working class people communicate through a series of grunts and facial expressions”

      What?
      like this you mean?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqSGmVlqR24

    231. john king says:

      Apparently he said it twice 🙂

    232. geeo says:

      Reply from Prof Curtice.
      ….

      Re: Independence .?

      John Curtice (J [dot] Curtice [at] strath [dot] ac [dot] uk)

      12:29

       
      To: Gordon

      Someone else has just sent this to me. It does not represent my views about Yes supporters.

      JC

    233. heedtracker says:

      @ Grouse Beater, its years of his ghastly nasal estuary drone on R4 news of a ukok morning. I cant mind anything he ever said either but like Sarah Smith, his dad is a Labour Lord or something. SO he’ll really monster independence economically next week and here’s a pack of BBC lies to get him warmed up.

      How they get away with this propaganda is just betttertogether incredible but its great to see Prof Aleibaba Tomkins is also an economist at Glasgow uni, sorry a BRIIISH Slovenian economist too:D

      eek! https://id.theguardian.com/profile/abiesalba/public

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28129190

    234. CameronB Brodie says:

      ronnie anderson

      ll gie you a Purple Ronnie Book

      I’m Keechin’ it now. 😉

    235. Sinky says:

      Right you thickos. Translate this

      En effet, il est aujourd’hui nécessaire que l’UE se débarrasse de la Grande-Bretagne. Ou plutôt de l’Angleterre, car l’Ecosse devra être au plus vite réintégrée dans l’Europe et dans la zone euro, si son peuple choisit l’indépendance en septembre prochain; de même pour Cardiff et Belfast lorsqu’elles décideront de maîtriser leur destin politique.

      http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/monde/europe/union-europeenne-il-est-temps-de-se-debarrasser-de-l-angleterre_1556270.html

    236. heedtracker says:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Peston,_Baron_Peston

      Labour Baron Peston of Mile end, another £300 a day unelected space cadet.

    237. john king says:

      Michael says
      “Nothing like under-estimating one’s opponents.”

      I seem to recall they did that once before

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8usgmMzDQ

    238. john king says:

      Indeed, it is now necessary that the EU disposes of Britain. Or rather England, as Scotland will be faster reinstated in Europe and the euro zone if its people chose independence in September; same for Cardiff and Belfast when deciding to control their political destiny.

      how quick was that? puff puff puff

    239. heedtracker says:

      Massive Channel 4 news boost there for silent majority of NO. So why bribe massive majority of NO in Glasgow with billions of our own money, is not mentioned by one more smirky tanned man on the telly.

    240. Nana Smith says:

      @Sinky

      and it is necessary that the EU gets rid of Britain. Or rather England as Scotland will be welcomed in Europe and the euro zone if it chooses independence in September…..

    241. Paula Rose says:

      Yes – I am poor

      No – I am not stupid

      Decisions, decisions

      Cans of baked beans being a woman’s first sustenance in days

      Easy choice.

    242. laukat says:

      So if the Yougov poll is to be believed and the No campaign is so far in front why did the Unionists try to bribe the electorate today? Are they in need of a gamechanger?

    243. Paula Rose says:

      @ laukat

      No ahead – so don’t bother voting.

    244. biggpolmont says:

      a bribe of five hundred million okay so thats a week of oil revenues paid back only another forty years worth and we will call it quits!

    245. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Maureen Luby says:

      So san shoe wrt Nicas.

      Thanks

      BtP

    246. Paula Rose says:

      Vision dollies – lets get back to basics, works for me.

    247. Croompenstein says:

      I am in no way the most educated guy in Scotland but I have to say that the No and undecided I have spoken to are really thick as mince when it comes to the real issues. It’s hard not to come across as a smart arse but my smart arsedness has been earned by finding out the debate from WoS and all the other great indy sites why won’t the undecided do the same and draw the only logical conclusion. Prof Stephenson Smeephinson and Prof Poultice are in the No group.

    248. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      border posts, kicked out of europe, cant use our currency, oil a burden etc etc etc, and she calls us fik.

    249. Sinky says:

      John King

      Tres bon mon ami

    250. Paula Rose says:

      FIK – Full-on Independence Knowledge.

    251. Harry McAye says:

      Marcia, if those were roughly the same folk being surveyed that popped their balls, ahem, in the tube then how come the No vote is so high. Leaving aside the tiny country towns of Kinross, Milnathort, St Monans and Kinskettle, which were 39-61, 39-61, 25-75 and 28-72 respectively in favour of No, Yes had wins of 77-23, 69-31, 68-32, 64-36, 64-36, 64-36, 63-37, 62-38, 60-40, 59-41, 58-42, 58-42, 57-33…you get the picture.

      Did anyone see Sarah Smith tonight make the suggestion that the Queen as monarch of Scotland might be on shaky ground as “many yes supporters are also republicans”? Trying to stir up some sectarian hatred, right in the middle of holding-up-traffic-for-no-good-reason season. I was initially against another protest of the BBC being organised so soon. I thought, maybe wait and see if they improve but no, count me in. It will not change one bit towards September 18th.

    252. john king says:

      I have an ami, Ive never had an ami before,
      oh I feel so European all of a sudden, I think I’ll have a croissant for breakfast tomorrow and give the porridge a miss. 🙂

    253. Sinky says:

      And well done Nana

      Perhaps it is time for the Scottish government to seek out some allies in Europe who would embarrass Cameron.

      Perhaps a French politician saying

      Vive l’Ecosse, vive libre Ecosse

    254. Clootie says:

      More powers, money to Glasgow!

      “Do not trust the horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even when they bring gifts.”

    255. john king says:

      Oui things says
      “Professor Enema ”

      Woo ha hsahahahahahahha
      I thought she seemed a bit full of herself.

    256. john king says:

      Name (required)

      ello ello ello
      name please?

    257. john king says:

      clootie says
      ““Do not trust the horse, Trojans. Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks even when they bring gifts.”

      I wouldn’t even give that micron thin piece of nonsense any credence,
      it carries as much weight as the more powers pish.

    258. Croompenstein says:

      As I said earlier thick as mince but the wee ginger dug puts it better than I ever could…

      http://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2014/07/03/blithering-idiocies-and-the-maturity-of-children/

    259. Macfergus says:

      I became a nationalist and SNP voter in 1992, and have since then consistently believed that Scotland would be much better off in a whole variety of ways as an independent country. It is possible that all through that period I was less well educated and less bright than many of my contemporaries, but six days ago, on 27th June 2014 I graduated from Glasgow University with an MA Honours in History and won the Barbara Beggs award to boot for the mature student with the highest grades! Think my thicko days are now behind me Jill! And i still believe in Scottish independence and will vote YES! on 18th September 2014.

    260. john king says:

      Did you know, Ronnie Anderson has his own translation desk in MI5?
      “noo Diddy Daves opening the purse strings, mibbe’s noo’s the time tae get that Big Wheel an yon Big Bendy Clock,Im thinking o sending him some of ma Big Boys Nappies cause the shits sure fawing oota him, na fk it he can buy his ain.”

      😉

    261. donald anderson says:

      FUK Former United Kingdom
      BUM British Unionist Movement

    262. Jim Thomson says:

      @Sinky – the interesting bit’s at the end when they add in Cardiff and Belfast 🙂

      That would really isolate the Westminster elite.

      Problem with both of those, of course, is that they aren’t sovereign nations in their own right and would have a very different indy struggle on their books.

    263. Jim Thomson says:

      The Glasgow “gift” from call-me-Dave – how does that stack up against the Glesca Coonsillers and their allownaces and expenses? Probably doesn’t even tickle that budget.

    264. Jim Thomson says:

      or even their allowances

    265. heedtracker says:

      Weegingerdug’s suitably perplexed by whoever Tom Brown is one more fat bald old mannie self obsessed about what to call himself, “I’m a Fifer, a Scot and I’m British – in that order.”

      That’s the kind of thing Billy Connolly says all the time but at least Tom Brown came up with a new insult for people of Scotland that want democracy, vote YES cyber reptiles!

    266. Grouse Beater says:

      Wings is cooking something … this topic has been headline most of the day.

    267. Murray McCallum says:

      “I think I’ll have a croissant for breakfast tomorrow and give the porridge a miss.”

      Sake John! Why on earth would you eat an empty pasty for breakfast. It must be the weather …

    268. john king says:

      The rest of Scotland who have been sitting with their arse hanging out of its trousers for the last nearly forty years should be screaming blue bloody murder for our share of the BRIBE to Glasgow,
      of course Cameron knows the Labour parties stronghold is Glasgow so he’s cynically using the last place in Scotland that would support the Tories to support his desire (and we all why) to retain the union.

    269. CameronB Brodie says:

      donald anderson

      Justified
      Objectors
      Before
      British
      Imperialism
      Ensnaring
      Scotland

      My first attempt at this sort of thing. 🙂

    270. Douglas Macdonald says:

      Regarding the picture in today’s Guardian, alluded to above (bookie from hell), the young person on the left is draped in an upside down Union flag, which is widely regarded as a signal of distress. Is he/she trying to tell us something about the Union?

    271. handclapping says:

      (and we all why) No we don’t, tell us John, tell us.

    272. john king says:

      (and we all why) No we don’t, tell us John, tell us.

      KNOW!

    273. CameronB Brodie says:

      john king
      What?

    274. handclapping says:

      Tut,tut. KNOW thanks 🙂

    275. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      After spending 8 years studying in 4 Scottish Universities I must be so stupid that I am voting Yes.

      I am very happy that Edinburgh University was one that I never had the pleasure of studying at.
      I do not think I would have learnt anything useful from that establishment if Prof Stephenson is a typical example of their academic staff. Numpty.

    276. Nana Smith says:

      Poor Dave will be broken hearted if we leave the union. One more reason to vote YES.

      http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/03/david-cameron-scots-tories-pride-patriotism-united-uk

    277. john king says:

      “john king
      What?”

      EH?

    278. Paula Rose says:

      Oh btw darlings – has the prim minister of the UK fixed ‘broken Britain’ yet – just asking, cos I wouldn’t want to remain part of that if the alternative is Scotland.

    279. CameronB Brodie says:

      john king
      I thought so. 😉

    280. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      JK

      All will be explained, when I sober up.

    281. john king says:

      “Poor Dave will be broken hearted if we leave the union. One more reason to vote YES.”

      You better believe it will break his heart Nana
      give em ten years and it’ll be them with the arse hanging out of their trousers.

    282. john king says:

      “john king
      I thought so. ;)”

      Well that’s alright then ,
      carry on. 🙂

    283. crisiscult says:

      Kathy Wiles and Jill Stephenson: both names of regular posters on the xenophobic, ultra nationalistic (and pretty right wing) better together facebook page. When I visited I thought they were a bit simple (I mean in a kind of 18th century countryside way). Now I find out one is (was) a labour parliamentary candidate and the other a university professor. This is either a message that the labour party, and doctorates, are no strangers to stupidity, or that British Nationalism is akin to the dark side of the force. The likely answer is that both are true.

    284. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      This is all getting very silly.

      Nightol!

    285. O/T Jim(im working,honestly!)Murphy,will be at sunny Portobello this saturday at 12pm,and Leith(newkirkgate)at 2.30pm.

      Im sure he will get a great welcome at both towns!

    286. Minty says:

      The first time I saw this woman’s Twitter account, I assumed it was a parody.

      University education is no indicator of real intellect, many public school educated/university educated colleagues of mine are much less able than the state school/university educated ones or those who are autodidacts.

      Ability to think critically is often not developed in public schools as paying parents just want their kids dragged through the exams to achieve grades that will get them into university, and claim the social status which they deem appropriate for their offspring.

      I note that she is an alumni of George Watson’s.

    287. muttley79 says:

      @Bugger

      Come back!! 😀

    288. gordoz says:

      O/T

      Forgot to mention on earlier thread re pathetic ‘cry for Britannia’ column by Tom Brown formerly of the Daily Something or other.

      Tom Brown is a Glasgow ‘Blaw hard’ Labour loyalist no more no less and definitely no journalistic heavy weight as suggested. (Blaw hard = Big Mouth)

    289. Thepnr says:

      @Harry McAye

      Not really surprised the Courier poll excluded the “Ping Pong” poll as these tweets all from the past week suggest a rather different result might be the case.

      High tech ping pong poll closed in #arbroath on the roadshow. It’s 37% No and 63% Yes. Thanks for taking part! #courierindyroadshow

      High tech ping pong poll has closed in #carnoustie. Its 64% for yes and 36% no. Thanks to everyone who participated! #courierindyroadshow

      High tech ping pong poll now closed in #tayport its 33% No and 67%Yes thanks for participating! #courierindyroadshow

      High-tech ping pong poll has closed in #upperlargo. It’s 67% No, 33% Yes, thanks for participating this afternoon. #courierindyroadshow

    290. CameronB Brodie says:

      Muscleguy
      I was trying to allude to the point Minty has just made, without openly stating the sair fecht that money can by blinkers as well as privilege.

    291. Erchie says:

      For what it is worth I can confirm that Iain (Orri) McCord is possessed of reasonable intelligence and a degree.

      he’s not an Professor Emeritus though, so obviously less well educated bu Jill Stephenson’s standards

    292. Croompenstein says:

      Bateman has an article on Tom Brown as well..

      http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/07/03/im-sorry-ill-read-that-again/

    293. Croompenstein says:

      Right, who shat in the audiences breakfast come on own up..

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-28153392

    294. caz-m says:

      Nana Smith
      Dunfermline debate.
      “Former local MP Willie Rennie contacted the Press to complain that he and Dave Dempsey were repeatedly shouted down whenever they spoke up for the United Kingdom at the meeting”.

      Wullie, the 200 strong audience weren’t shouting at you, they were laughin at you.

    295. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      muttley79 says:

      @Bugger

      Come back

      que<
      ?

    296. Nana Smith says:

      @Caz-m

      You are right, I watched that debate and I was rolling with laughter..

    297. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Muttly 70

      It is Friday, somewhere in the World.

      I am hunting.

      nightol??

    298. handclapping says:

      @BtP
      Bugger off?

    299. Harry McAye says:

      Thepnr – Thanks for that, I didn’t have the Tayport and Upper Largo results so that’s 25 Yes wins out of 33. Yet we’re expected to believe that only 40% of their 3,000 plus say they will vote Yes. I smell shhhhh…

    300. Roy M says:

      It was pretty rude of her to say less educated and less bright, and she was probably referring to polling that shows a slightly greater propensity for the “CDEs” to be in favor of independence than the “ABCs”. Not a smart move at all. Here’s an Economist article that includes a reference to a poll in Dec 2013… http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21595429-battle-scotland-will-be-decided-group-people-who-rarely-get-change

    301. ronnie anderson says:

      @ John King , am the special agent fur furrin parts – Scotland because am biased

    302. ronnie anderson says:

      Pacific Quay Demonstration 27th July.

      Anybody attending & wants to stay overnight I have a friend who can arrange overnight accomidation Bed/Breakfast in the GOVAN HILTON ( see the Panda photo’s my friends the one in the middle ) 1st come 1st served late comers will have to put up with sub standard accomidation at London Rd & Stewart St.

      Its a date for the Diary Lads n Lasses, bigger n better.

      The Police on Sunday we’re great well done Glasga Polis.

    303. Brian Campbell says:

      I’ve read quite a few of her tweets. I find them pretty shocking, actually. I suppose I expected better of an academic.

    304. Thepnr says:

      @ronnie anderson

      See you big man. Yer a star xx.

    305. Andy smith says:

      I was converted after reading my copy of “yes for dummies” 🙂

    306. geeo says:

      Enjoyed tormenting the DR unionistas the last few days,i dont think they like me much.
      Never abusive, always polite to them and even defend them when people are a bit abusive to them.
      For some reason that upsets them more !!

      As for Cameron..

      10 reasons to ditch the union.

      Fear bombing.
      Faux Love bombing.
      Patronised.
      Condescended to.
      Insulted.
      Bullied.
      Threatened.
      Lied to.
      Misled.
      Used.

      Did i miss anything ?

      Cameron can stamp his feet and scweem and scweem, but he is fooling nobody, they get more desperate as September approaches.

      We keep hearing about the massive gap in the polls, so why do the Unionist party tactics get more and more panicky ?

      They are realising that Scots are ready to seize the day and do not know what to do to stop it.

    307. Ranald says:

      It would be libel only if the offence was committed in England. That, I think, is the English equivalent of defamation of character.

    308. YESGUY says:

      Well that was another interesting day.

      Aberdeen done us proud tonight winning 5-0

      Cameron nearly started (i said nearly) greetin with the thought of losing Scotland” LOSING! Someone bring him up to speed please.

      Sat old baldy Tom said he would stay oot of the referendum talks then gave us his opinion on grand bairns be forin. I nearly started (i said nearly) greetin mah self.

      And Glasgow has won the lottery. YiPeE . Wot about the rest of us Camo??? i live on east coast. And am skint. Make me an offer and i Might think about a no vote. I’ll think of it for 5 whole minutes promise. Nob. – Apoligies to nobs elsewhere.

      And some brilliant comments to boot.

      This place is supposed to be central cybernat territory .Full of stupid folk. I gave up counting your degrees and (Hon) cos i ran out of fingers. Note to self – get more fingers.

      Off to bed early tonight , have a wee stop at hospital tmoz then sort myself out for the meet in the Newsroom Basement. (That.s a cool place for nasty cybernats eh?) Where i hope to meet you distinguished folk and put faces to some of the readers here.

      Looking forward to it big time. ( i know i don’t get out much)

      All the best till then Wingers.

    309. Charles Kearney says:

      ‘At the very least it would somewhat colour his analysis, which we’ve hitherto always considered professional and impartial.’

      For a Reverend Gentleman, you don’t half tell some Whoppers!

      Curtice is an Ex Advisor to the Labour Party, The BBC,s ‘Independent’ Psephologist, as was, but now as we saw at the Recent Elections, Elevated to Spokesman on Scottish Affairs and indeed, put up to argue the Unionist Case with Alex Salmond on Behalf of the BBC! I’m sure we can now await his Registration with the Electoral Commission as a NO Campaigner!

    310. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

      @minty
      George Watson’s
      That explains it then.

    311. halftracknat says:

      I apologise for not having read all of the comments;most of you are wiser or funnier than I can be and you’ll likely have said what I am thinking in sharper and more humorous or even sarcastic ways than I can right now. But-I benefited from a Scottish education having started primary school in the 1960s, I graduated in the mid 80s.My teachers and tutors were mainly intelligent, committed and devoted. They certainly did their best by me.I do not have a brain the size of a planet, won’t get any prizes for diplomacy,but I am well educated, well read, well travelled and don’t believe myself to be anybody’s fool. I am a YESSER because I believe that’s what the people of Scotland need and deserve, the normal status of a country, the right to self-determination,democracy and normality. Other things like the removal of Trident, the eradication of hunger and poverty are also my goals, but they are the consequences not the reasons for my desire for independence for a great and ancient though also modern facing country. I just can hardly bear to read or hear any more of this abusive, cantankerous, divisive and thoroughly disgusting tripe coming from those who ought to know better, yet the message has got to get right out there that this is how we democratic, sociable and decent, peaceful members of this movement are tarred by the smears of an establishment whose days are numbered. Keep up your work Rev Stu – they know what we all know; YES is the natural and only way in which Scotland and her people will flourish. Sorry for the rant.

    312. X_Sticks says:

      Good rant halftracknat. Right with you.

    313. CameronB Brodie says:

      halftracknat
      I appreciated it (your rant), but you might want to break your next post into paragraphs. Our Glorious Leader gets a bit cranky, otherwise. 😉

    314. Morag Graham Kerr says:

      I’ve got a very similar story to Orri’s.

      I spent 10 years at Glasgow Uni and came out the other end with three degrees, the last one a PhD. Some time later a friend suggested we join Mensa, for access to their singles list in fact. Sat the wee test (which is massively culture and education biassed) and got 161 so they let me in.

      Dated one guy, very very briefly, and we talked about Scottish independence more than anything. (Later, when I joined the SNP, he joined up too – and no, he wasn’t still pursuing me.)

      But the date (who was a very nice bloke) aside, the people in the local Mensa group I tried to socialise with were exactly as Orri said. A bit weird. Underachievers. Not as bright as they thought they were. The local secretary lived within walking distance of my house and it should have been an easy thing to keep up but I only went once. I formed the opinion that while the group was for the top 2% of the scores, it was the second-top 1% who stayed. The people who needed some affirmation of their intellect because they weren’t getting that in another way. I didn’t renew my subscription despite many reminders.

      This was the summer of 1992. The year of “Free by ’93” that didn’t come off. I was quite wound up about it. I’d always viewed politics as something nasty and sleazy and duplicitous (that’s what being brought up in north Lanarkshire does to you), but I decided I couldn’t stay out of it any longer, and joined the SNP.

      I remember going to my first branch meeting. It was Black Wednesday. I had no idea what I was going to encounter. I found a bunch of extremely bright people (brighter than that bloody Mensa bunch) with sparky conversation who were really fun to be around. (And as I said, the Mensa date joined up too.)

      And the rest is sort of history. But not Crazy Jill’s sort of history.

    315. halftracknat says:

      Thank you @X_Sticks and @CameronB Brodie,sorry Rev Stu!
      I do feel the stirrings of a Writ for defamation; but equally well can see the benefit for YES! in allowing smears like this to continue; what say you?

    316. caz-m says:

      4th of July, Happy Independence Day America.

      Scotland will be following your example of breaking away from Westminster rule on 18th September 2014.

      It’s getting close ladies and gentlemen, keep up the good work.

    317. Chic McGregor says:

      The only time I thought I might join Mensa, along with another colleague from the semiconductor industry, was when Clive Sinclair’s stock was at its highest. He was in the process of starting up a new semiconductor plant in Cambridge which sounded exciting and he had gone on record as saying he was a Mensa member and preferred to work with people with high IQ’s.

      He had secured a lot of the required funding and the rest looked a gimme.

      We only considered it for those purely careerist reasons.

      We got as far as sitting the ‘screening test’ which we both passed.

      Unfortunately, at that juncture, he brought out the C5 and the rest, as they say, ‘is mystery’. His personal stock crashed. The plant never came into being.

      The only other time I sat an IQ test was in first year at uni as part of a nationwide survey and was obligatory.

      Physicists were joint highest in that survey with 138 average along with mathematicians and electrical engineers.

      That was in ’73. Wonder what the averages would be today?

      I also suspect that the average IQ of wings contributors would compare quite favourably to those of the nay sayers.

      But high IQ certainly is not everything. Quality of thought process does not always equate to the speed of it.

    318. donald anderson says:

      Whit’s mensa?

      Here’s some cheek Euro funding for the EBC Spy Centre.

      http://tinyurl.com/o8vokup

    319. donald anderson says:

      Whit’s mensa?

      Here’s some cheek Euro funding for the EBC Spy Centre.

      http://tinyurl.com/o8vokup

    320. Hortense says:

      …..and anyway, what’s wrong with less educated people voting no? Obviously means they have a reason to – poverty, inequality etc – research and analyse that @historywoman!

    321. Hortense says:

      I mean Yes!

    322. Morag says:

      I also suspect that the average IQ of wings contributors would compare quite favourably to those of the nay sayers.

      I’m certain you’re right. The quality of the conversation here is half of what keeps me on the blog. Even people one might categorise as horny-handed sons of toil are frequently scarily bright.

      (And then there are the posers, but that’s a hazard of anywhere.)

    323. yerkitbreeks says:

      It’s pretty relevant that Stephenson and Bildhauer are employees of Edinburgh and St Andrews which glean a good deal of income from south of the Border ( they’re the second choices of failed Oxbridge entrants ).

    324. keaton says:

      @Charles Kearney:
      “Curtice is an Ex Advisor to the Labour Party”

      Is he? He’s always seemed like a Lib Dem to me, though generally quite impartial. You got a link for this?

    325. abystander says:

      Went to George Watson’s Ladies College where there few, very few,stupid working class people.

      Or any working class people.

    326. Chic McGregor says:

      @keaton
      ““Curtice is an Ex Advisor to the Labour Party”

      Is he? He’s always seemed like a Lib Dem to me, though generally quite impartial. You got a link for this?”

      I remember reading a post a couple of years or so back which claimed he had been a LibDem candidate once, but don’t know if that were true and have not seen it anywhere else.

    327. Chic McGregor says:

      Morag
      (And then there are the posers, but that’s a hazard of anywhere.)

      Yes, especially on the internet. I’m sure once this referendum is past, provided there is a Yes vote, I’m not the only one who will be more than glad to hang up his keyboard. At least on the sordid subject of politics, which I both detest and feel violated by but which is I’m afraid something, and again I’m sure it is the same for many of us, feel compelled to do.

      I want my life back.

    328. Morag says:

      Well, I’ve got the Lockerbie thing to worry about. That’s not going to be resolved any time soon. It’s kind of on the back burner at the moment though.

    329. Tom Foyle says:

      Hmmm. Are education and “brightness” the same thing as common-sense? My cats can’t read, but they are clever enough to recognise what’s food and what’s poison. Even if the poison IS camouflaged with catnip. BT-style.
      Following my discovery of an article last year that suggested that the level of educational achievement in Scotland was below the UK average, I took a mensa test – just out of curiosity. A follow-up test gave me a score of 141. It was interesting, but, ultimately, meant nothing. Until now. Firstly, because I’m a “Yessee” all the way, primarily because of the suffering that Scotland has had to, and still does, endure at the hands of the English. Secondly, people don’t have to be uneducated or of low intelligence to recognise immediately the tactics and depths of deception that no campaigners have resorted to.
      But thirdly, and here’s the kicker – I’m English, grammar school-educated and in full possession of both my mental faculties and ALL the facts. I’m a voracious reader and a lover of truth , reality and honesty. I wonder – what replies will I receive from no supporters?

    330. Ruth Henderson says:

      A petition to get Prof. Stephenson to apologise for the abusive terms she used towards MP Mhairi Black:

      https://www.change.org/p/professor-jill-stephenson-apologise-to-mhairi-black-for-your-words-towards-her

    331. Yes2indy says:

      ….. “who ARE voting Yes” ……
      At least she seems to have accepted the fact that indyref2 is on the horizon 🙂

    332. Christopher Hardy says:

      https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-subversion-of-history-education-in-scotland/amp. I DO not believe she is a Proffessor of anything but Creative Stories which refuse lived through histories. She is obvioussly a Unionist and with her Germanic Background why would she not write lies as to please some form of idol audience. Ignore this Womans tales and dampening down of English Violence towards Scots i believe we Scots know our History a lot better than even she would claim scots intelligence to be. A german woman qualified to write on a marginalised people if i remember correctly under German Dictatorship they would have marginalised the entire world and saod it was for the best. Stick to your brown nosing Jill (Liar) Fictional Storyteller.



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