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Well advised to go

Posted on June 27, 2017 by

AC Grayling, historian.

Previously:

Richard Murphy, political economy professor.

Simon Pia, former Scottish Labour spin doctor.

Hilary and Carey, farmers.

James, pensioner and former soldier.

Sophie, philosophy professor.

Kathi, language teacher from East Germany.

Jackie Kemp, journalist.

Mark, from Edinburgh via London.

Elizabeth, cosmetic scientist.

Erin, school pupil.

Christopher, biker.

Tom Morton, former BBC broadcaster and No campaigner.

Mike Dailly, solicitor and anti-poverty campaigner.

Caroline, from Edinburgh via Hastings.

Daniel, from Dundee via London.

Fraser, former Labour voter.

(All clips via the always-excellent Phantom Power Films.)

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    1. 27 06 17 14:57

      Well advised to go | speymouth

    90 to “Well advised to go”

    1. Macart says:

      A reasoned contribution from Mr Grayling and appreciated. That couldn’t have been an easy conclusion for him to come to.

    2. Muscleguy says:

      For someone of Prof Grayling’s standing to use the term ‘To think again’ like that is absolutely wonderful.

      it shows his understanding, knowledge and empathy he expresses in other ways.

      Welcome to the fold Prof from a fellow academic atheist. I continue to treasure his books which I own and seek to read others.

    3. One_Scot says:

      Love hearing clearly intelligent people who were essentially No voters, using facts and common sense regarding the current political situation of Scotland, to argue the case for Independence.

    4. David Howdle says:

      A minor quibble. Grayling is a philosopher isn’t he? Not a historian.

    5. galamcennalath says:

      Brilliant. A major coup getting someone like Prof Grayling to go on record and express those views.

      It is my hope as IndyRef2 campaigning runs its course, that Indy becomes the established, outward looking, sensible, and pragmatic option. And at the same time, Scotland in the Union becomes the preserve of the loony right UKOK isolationists.

    6. heraldnomore says:

      Ah, the Humanist and the Rev, love it, there’s a punchline somewhere.

    7. Muscleguy says:

      @David Howdle

      If you teach philosophy as Prof Grayling does you must know the History of Philosophy and to understand it you must also know and understand the milieu in which it was written etc. To understand Hume properly you must know about and understand the Scottish Enlightenment and how it fitted into the French other versions.

    8. Capella says:

      Excellent – well argued and rational approach. If only everyone could be so calm and objective. Well done Phantom Power Films and Prof Grayling.
      I specially liked the fact that he understands the Union to be between Scotland and England. Academia is not wasted on ACG.

    9. Valerie says:

      Another great one.

      I follow the Prof on Twitter. He is absolutely distraught about Brexit, and posts every day, about stopping it.

      His support is a major one.

    10. Capella says:

      BBC says that Nicola is due to make her statement at 14:20 today. The proceedings are being broadcast now if anyone wants to tune in:
      http://www.scottishparliament.tv/Home/Index/9cc36303-8aa1-4b88-92a8-0e86448bc436

    11. Meg merrilees says:

      Nicola also on BBC Scotland website – Politics section NOW

    12. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Jamie Ross?Verified account @JamieRoss7 58s58 seconds ago

      More

      No #IndyRef2 legislation will be introduced for the timebeing. Sturgeon will focus on influencing the Brexit discussions.

      Not happy, Nicola.

    13. Robert Graham says:

      I hope that’s just my washing in the background, and not these Tory arse holes making a noise in the background, maybe mr macintosh needs reminding that he is not just a spectator, but is actually actively in charge,

    14. One_Scot says:

      The reality is nothing has changed. Nicola will try to get best deal for Scotland. May will tell Nicola to get stuffed. Tories pull out Single and Common market. Then ScotRef.

    15. Macart says:

      No real change in stance from before the GE. 😉

      Indyref still on the table and decision should still be made by the Scottish electorate. The only caveat is delay in proceeding with legislation. Once settlement stance is clear, Scottish parliament to decide whether to proceed with same.

      The clever part was in challenging the opposition parties to back the SG in an argument to gain a place at the Brexit table and fight for access to single market.

      So back to the paper the SG sent down several months ago then.

    16. Petra says:

      Well we’ve just been cut off on Ch 131 just as wee Rennie, in bealie-bag mood, said ”so nothing has changed.”

    17. The Proctor Lewis says:

      Nicola has just cut the ground out from ruth no referendums arguments, and don’t the wee unionists know it. so we will have cries of “no change” from the tories, but the spotlight is on them,
      So ruth where is Scotland’s barnett consequentials, you said you fight for Scotland, the fight has started, “where’s your chib”.

    18. fionan says:

      Anyone else disappointed by what seems to be a non-statement? Basically we are just going to argue on about not getting any say on brexit, while the unionists continue to smirk and sneer at us while rubbing our noses in their continued asset stripping and sneaking removal of powers from Holyrood. Anyone else disgusted by the behaviour of these animals on NS’s left and their rude arrogant and childish noise?

      I think I’m just going to go for a long snooze now, wake me up if indyref ever looks like it will happen folks 🙁

    19. Big Jock says:

      It’s a deep breath required. I would have gone and just named a date if I was Sturgeon. So we can agree to disagree on that.

      If you listen to what she said at the start:” We have an unequivocal mandate and I believe the referendum should be in this parliamentary term”. So we know the referendum is going to be after autumn 18, when she said she would review the Brexit deal. She also said it was clear that Scotland needed a choice!

      Read between the lines the indy ref is going to be after September 18. So realistically with the mechanism and process we are looking at Spring 19 to autumn 19. I can’t see what has actually changed.

      She has changed the language bit the message is essentially the same. Remember the UK could be out by Christmas at this rate so that changes everything. Then we would know it was a bad Brexit.

      Caveat being that she shouldn’t have said we will review next autumn. Because if we are out by 2018 then she would have to legislate for an emergency referendum.

      Mixed feelings about the whole thing!

      Last week I was ready to retire my SNP membership for backsliding.

    20. Petra says:

      Great to hear Nicola say that she’ll be reaching out to the Yes movement overall. That brought about a great deal of moaning in the background from the Unionists.

      Davidson is livid no doubt because she hasn’t managed to do Big T’s bidding. Theresa May wont be one bit happy. General Gadaftie the failure.

    21. Robert Graham says:

      Wullie gets up to speak, Oh f/k that ends my interest full stop, All opposition msps just carrying on as before, all acting as one NO referendum like a demented Parrot, all those who once backed the First Minister to protect Scottish interests, now running for cover, Kezia looking like she has just won something, continues to miss the target, while Labour down south attrack the Tory party, Kezia goes off in the opposite direction, will she never learn , rhetorical question .

    22. geeo says:

      No surprises then.

      What it does mean is that when unionists and their pet media, continue to bring up indyref, they can be batted away with a simple line…

      “I refer you to the statement by Nicola Sturgeon on 27th June”

      If they persist, for example, by screeching…”indy has been parked, surely” ? (BBC news ALREADY claiming this)

      “The statement on 27th June was very clear on the issue, no further dialogue required”.

    23. Macart says:

      @Petra

      You noticed that too eh? 😉

      Bizzarely wee thingy hit the nail on the head when he claimed ‘nothing had changed’. How and ever, a great deal has been added and a great deal on how a mandate works and who exactly has won what, has been clarified.

    24. Muscleguy says:

      Thinking about Nicola Sturgeon’s statement which I watched live is that she said the SNP would not bring forward a referendum bill at this time.

      Which is huge, it suggests they think they have the power to do so now without a section 30 order. As I have suggested they might.

    25. colin Alexander says:

      No indyref2 says Nicola Sturgeon.

      Wise decision.

      Now’s the time to put my plan into action.

      To all people on here who mocked me and accused me of being a Yoon Labour fifth columnist and a distraction to the indyref they were insisting was going to happen:

      No hard feelings. I am willing to work with youse on the common cause of standing up for Scottish Sovereignty – Scottish democracy – Within the Union, so we make democratic and economic progress, until the time is right for full independence – when the majority will vote for independence.

    26. galamcennalath says:

      Nicola challenging the Unionist to stand up for Scotland in their Union, good move.

      Just after the EURef they said they would fight for Scotland against an extreme Brexit. This they have completely failed to do.

    27. Breeks says:

      It takes a day to hold a referendum.

      How long does it take to steer public opinion and build electoral momentum so that support can peak at just the right time? We seem to be lining up ScotRef to be a very brief campaign, launched from a standing start, without any particular YES involvement or presence, but with the lengthy prelude to the vote to have its tone, tenor and content largely, if not exclusively, determined by the Unionist media.

      Please feel free to cheer me up.

    28. Robert Graham says:

      tories even in the uk parliament crowing about Nicola not changing her stance on a referendum , only in this bloody country can something be made out of nothing by our media , very predictable .
      The referendum will bite them on the arse when it suits her , not when it suits them , now shut the f/k up .

    29. Petra says:

      We’ll have a good idea of how the Brexit fiasco is going down by next autumn, if not before if they walk away, and I doubt T May will agree to an A30 especially with the DUP banging on their big brass drum and tooting away with their whistles inside 10 Downing Street, even more so inside Theresa’s head.

      I can see Nicola holding a Referendum without the A30 and how long would that take to organise? As long as it took May to organise the General Election?

      Independence is coming folks and I reckon it’s high time that we REALLY got moving, date or not.

    30. Dr Jim says:

      @colin Alexander: Now’s the time to put MY plan into action

      Still mocking you, so nothing’s changed there either

    31. Johnny says:

      Right, so it sounded like there was an appeal to the wider Yes movement to get campaigning and helping to make the case ahead of autumn 2018.

      I’m not some sort of political fixer, so how do we get started?

    32. Big Jock says:

      That sturgeon said she was going to bring the Yes activists together. Means that she is fully aware they need to build momentum for indy ref 2. There has been a complete lack of this since Brexit took place a year ago.

      She is essentially going to spend the next year building the case for Scottish independence ,before launching the next campaign.

      Think about this. May and the DUP are an interim government. She will be replaced by 2018. The Tories whether they like it or not are going to have to call a GE. The SNP don’t want to get caught out on this again. So they want the ammunition to make sure they don’t lose anymore seats at WM.

      SNP strategists will know that a GE is a likely possibility and creating stability around the SG. The 13 Tories could be out on their collective arses but Corbyn could help the Labour party in Scotland. The SNP cannot lose anymore seats and they must take those Tory seats back.

    33. Bob Mack says:

      I think most commentators are expecting there to be another General election within a year as the demands of the DUP increase. The government also face members of their own party possibly voting against aspects of Brexit.

      Nicola is in a way right to postpone just now. Electoral fatigue does play it’s part. When the Brexit dust clears is the most auspicious time to decide. Full facts ,good or bad will help people decide on an independence ticket.

      I must also add that this series of films is very remarkable in their honesty and their ability to transmit factual experiences.

    34. Capella says:

      I heard Nicola say that she will be joining forces with the YES movement to persuade people of the case for independence.
      Sounded very positive to me.
      Timetable for Indyref2 as before – autumn 2018 – spring 2019, depending on when the terms of BREXIT are clear.

      Let’s not bother with the Tory spin which was no doubt already written and ready to circulate to the usual outlets.

    35. msean says:

      Not sure that I understand why the legislation has been delayed.(It’s passage would remind the Tories and the other Tories that they have had several tries at beating the indy favouring parties and lost every time.)

      Don’t remember the Tories offering anyone a seat at the table or a voice in the negotiations,so how any Scottish influence can be brought to bear on the negotiations is not clear to me.Tories are not renowned for listening to those they think they rule.

    36. Proud Cybernat says:

      Something no’ right wi’ my payslip this week. Anyone help?

      http://imgur.com/a/9jpO7

    37. Breeks says:

      Robert Graham says:
      27 June, 2017 at 3:13 pm
      tories even in the uk parliament crowing about Nicola not changing her stance on a referendum…

      But that’s not what they’re crowing. They’ve already started the “Nicola has done a Theresa May style U-turn and ditched plans for IndyRef2″….

    38. scottieDog says:

      Going to be v quick campaign if there is a ref.!

    39. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      The key part of Nicola’s statement was that the people are not ready yet to face a decision, and that is simply recognising a political fact. We might regret that people are being such ostriches about this, but that’s who we are. (Or too many of us, at least.)

      Some momentum was lost in the UKGE, and maybe that could have been handled better, but with the three Unionist parties acting as one, together with a great deal of help from the BBC, it was always going to be difficult.

      In actual fact the timing has not changed substantially, although as Patrick Harvey points out, it offers far less time for a campaign to operate if it is to be properly able to influence our future direction.

      Maybe to some extent though we have, in the words of the song, to “let time do the talking”. With the important proviso that we mustn’t let that become an excuse for doing nothing and losing any more momentum. A role for the “yes” campaign, no?

      But a straw in the wind: today the Bank of England announced ongoing measures for increasing the financial stability of the banks against expected losses due to overextended personal credit. The Bank is hardening up in anticipation of coming Brexit problems.

      The ostriches may have their heads in the sand right now, but their arses are still up there in the air…

    40. Sinky says:

      Wise decision by Nicola… keep building the case for Indy… then hold Ref2 when we have a good chance of winning.

      O/T Queenie going to get 25% of the Crown Estates income.

      Much of the Crown Estate which owns the shoreline, plus numerous shopping malls such as at Newcraighall in Edinburgh, is in Scotland and should have been devolved years ago.,

    41. gerry parker says:

      Big Jock at 3:20
      “That sturgeon said she was going to bring the Yes activists together. Means that she is fully aware they need to build momentum for indy ref 2. ”

      and no doubt inspired by her visit to the Forward shop in Dunoon. Well done Dave McEwan Hill.

    42. Johnny says:

      msean:

      I think the reason for not pushing the legislation through is to deprive Davidson of the ability to moan on by saying ‘why are you talking about this? Brexit is the immediate problem and we need to work on that. We haven’t even legislated for this yet, so shut it’.

      Whether it works well or not might be another matter, but that’s my reading of it. It makes it not ‘officially’ an ‘ongoing’ thing.

    43. sensibledave says:

      Both TM and ST have both had a very bad few months where they have both managed to transform themselves from formidably placed leaders on the cusp of a big move forward – to being weakened and overwhelmed by “events” and are both left trying to make the best of a bad job whilst taking flack from previously loyal supporters.

      Astonishing really.

    44. The Dog Philosopher says:

      No bad thing to have Prof Grayling on board. I hope the SNP begin to capitalise upon such support as a counter to the endless SNPbad narrative of the Brit media. Love to see this guy being bussed up for a Dundee QT at some future date.

    45. Petra says:

      @ Macart says at 3:07 pm …. ”Petra. You noticed that too eh? ? Bizzarely wee thingy hit the nail on the head when he claimed ‘nothing had changed’. How and ever, a great deal has been added and a great deal on how a mandate works and who exactly has won what, has been clarified.”

      Wee thingy Rennie is a cracker. He wants a repeat of the EU Referendum, which will never happen, but doesn’t want a Referendum to be held in Scotland to give the Scots a choice. Says it all for me.

      The cabal weren’t one bit happy about Nicola reminding them all of how wealthy Scotland is and that she has a mandate to take this forward, that is that her party won the GE. They hate it when ‘truthful facts’ are broadcasted.

      ………………………………………….

      Nicola is telling us all to get moving. You could start by joining the SNP, if you haven’t already, to send out a clear message to people like Dugdale who says that the Scots have made it clear that they don’t want another Referendum. It’s something like £5 a year if you are over a certain age. You could donate to the SNP because they are relying solely on us. No big donators for them and they will need a ‘fighting’ fund. Then trot along to your nearest SNP group and inject some enthusiasm into them / make constructive suggestions.

      No doubt some individuals will come forward to get the ball rolling. Alex and / or Angus would be great, LOL.

    46. sensibledave says:

      … should read NS not ST

    47. Meg merrilees says:

      So no real change – Indy ref will still happen at the end of the Brexit process as Nicola always said.

      She has cleverly put the other parties on notice to prove that they have Scotland’s best interests at heart starting with exposing just how weak the Scottish Tories have already proved to be.

      Tow reassuring statements- the future of SCOTLAND will be made by the people, not for the people.

      The Scottish government will continue to work with the wider Yes movement for an Independent Scotland.

      The 2nd one is the most important one – things will be happening outwith the SNP to further independence.

      Who will be in charge of liaising over that I wonder?
      No immediate names spring to mind, …oh, wait a minute,.. I can think of a couple…Important work for idle hands after a wee break maybe?

      It’s too easy for everyone to target Nicola and the SNP to try and prevent Indy; if it’s the wider movement then there are many more targets and any ‘attack’ is dissipated.
      After all, Nicola can’t be responsible if 17,000 people decide to march through Glasgow in support of Independence can she?

      I’m sure there will be other things happening that she can’t be accountable for.

      Meanwhile the WM scenario will just crumble on a daily basis.
      I read that T May wants parliament to have a 12 week summer break – because that gives MP’s less chance to vote bring down her government. This is not the decision of a stable government.

      Philip Hammond may be leader before the Autumn; Corbyn may be UK leader before next year; Trident could be dead in the water by next Spring;

      Nicola truly wants to be seen to be trying to bring as many people with her as possible and giving them ample opportunity to reach that decision themselves.

      We just have to wait – but actively.

      …And pray that Trump doesn’t do something stupid in N. Korea or Syria and hope that Saudi Arabia and Qatar make up.

    48. Sarah says:

      @ Johnny “How do we get started” on Yes campaigning?

      A few suggestions from my area which I’m praying will help the cause!

      1. Be visibly pro-Yes: fly a saltire; car stickers; a factual poster of some kind in your car i.e. make your car a billboard as has been suggested BTL here.

      2. Is there a Yes type group in your area? Look on National Yes Registry site. If not, start one! If there is one, hold a few events e.g. show the “London calling” film; show “I, Daniel Blake”; invite an MSP/MP/Paul Kavanagh/Robin McAlpine to do a Q&A session.

      3. Write to your local paper [and send to lots of other local papers too – contact details for Scottish papers are on Google] with examples of Unionist failures or whatever.

      4. Tell your SNP MP/MSP what you’re thinking!

    49. galamcennalath says:

      Capella says:

      I heard Nicola say that she will be joining forces with the YES movement to persuade people of the case for independence. Sounded very positive to me.

      Me too! In some ways that could be the biggest aspect of the announcement. Get the Yes2 campaign up and active asap, is my view.

      Brexit negotiating is one thing, a possible referendum is response to a shite Brexit is another, and getting an ongoing Yes campaign fired up is yet another. They needn’t run to the same timetable.

      Campaigning for Indy should be an ongoing process quite separate from any particular mechanism for achieving it.

      We have had an No2 campaign hammering away, every more loudly, for over a year. Time we responded.

    50. Col says:

      So basically we’re going to watch the brexit disaster unfold and I hope that by the end of the process enough Scots will come to the conclusion that indy is the only way forward for our country. It’s time we all get involved in grassroots indy campaigning and spell out why in around 2 years time must take control over our lives.

    51. Petra says:

      ”Proud Cybernat says at 3:25 pm …… ”Something no’ right wi’ my payslip this week. Anyone help?”

      http://imgur.com/a/9jpO7

      Something’s no’ right, right enough, PC and it’ll put the last nail in the Union’s coffin. More than anything Colonel Gadaftie knows it. Brilliant.

    52. Macart says:

      @Petra

      Nailed it. 🙂

    53. Thepnr says:

      The SNP today launched a new website aimed at building support for Independence. They want your ideas too, website is very basic right now but hopefully it can expand.

      The had the full Speech from Nicola today up on the site to download before she had even made it. You can get it here:

      http://www.mobilise.scot/

    54. John Stewart says:

      Yes Rutherglen are already on the ball.

      Open Meeting this Thursday evening in Cambuslang. See event info on facebook, or at link : http://www.goo.gl/N7zouH

      Get there if you can, make your input, and let’s see this campaign get started this week.

    55. Johnny says:

      Thanks Sarah!

      I did look on the registry before but will do so again.

    56. Big Jock says:

      I think the SNP have also realised that a short indy ref campaign might be more useful than the 2 year job previously. A lot of shit can be thrown at Scotland over 2 years!

      Give them six months and the Yoons will struggle to get going. Meanwhile we will start the campaign tomorrow. One thing is clear there is going to be a referendum between 2019 and 2020. May 2019 would be the bookies favourite.

      Ok folks it seems years away. But remember we announced indy ref one 2 years before it happened that felt like a while but went in quickly. We will get there folks, 2 years is not that long when you have been in the SNP for 30 years!

    57. Robert Louis says:

      Don’t think very much of any of what I have heard from the FM.

      The tories and the media will carry on demonising the FM and independence and Scotland. Today’s decision will not stop that. Brexit is still going to happen, and the Scotgov is NOT getting a say in what happens, no matter how many times they beg. The people of Scotland voted to stay in the EU, not to get a ‘good brexit deal’.

      We just lost a way out of it all. Autumn 2018 will be too late to decide on a referendum. This is what is called ‘kicking it into the long grass’.

      Time to get an Irish passport. 🙁

    58. Macart says:

      @Thepnr

      Kinda makes a statement all its own. 😉

    59. Petra says:

      @ Sarah says at 3:41 pm …. ”A few suggestions from my area which I’m praying will help the cause.

      1. Be visibly pro-Yes: fly a saltire; car stickers; a factual poster of some kind in your car i.e. make your car a billboard as has been suggested BTL here.”

      Spot on Sarah. Make your own poster for your car on your computer or by hand, such as mention the McCrone Report, Stolen Seas, how much (little) power has been delegated to Holyrood, GERS figures relate to the Union, Scotland is swimming in oil – What Norway takes in versus Scotland (just some examples). Keep it simple and add your Youtube reference.

      Maybe someone like IndyPosterBoy could start rattling off some of these simple messages to fit the side window of a car or long and low to place in the rear window.

    60. Thepnr says:

      On the A C Grayling video, another well produced film from Phantom Power and it’s great that respected academics like Grayling are willing to speak out in support of Independence for Scotland.

      He made one fatal error though in stating that without Scottish votes England & Wales would be doomed to Tory governments forever without a change to the electoral system.

      If he’ed read Wings for a while ot The Wee Blue Book then he would know that such a statement is just another Unionist myth. Only twice since 1945 have Scottish votes made any difference as to who ruled in Westminster and both were for a very short period. Evidence in the link below.

      http://www.theweebluebook.com/principles-and-politics.php

    61. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – I’m getting Invalid URL form that link. ?

    62. Sinky says:

      BBC just can’t help themselves. Watching BBC 24 hour news timeline captions, there is no mention of 2016 Scottish Parliament election result when pro Indy parties won a majority of seats just as they did earlier this month.

    63. Marie Clark says:

      Well done A C Grayling, and welcome on board.

      Unlike some others on here< I trust Nicola to do what's right for Scotland, and her people. Country before party. I'd have been absolutely bealin if she had stood up and said, no indy ref. From what I understand, we're really where we were before. See how Brexit lines up, first, then we have to go for it. We should be supporting her, not trying to cut the ground from under her feet. I'm pleased the yoon side are unhappy. Good enough for them.

      Oh aye, and while I'm here, @ Colin Alexander " now's the time to put my plan into action" what a bumtious person. Standing there like a cockerel with his feathers all fluffed out, crowing away at the rest of us. It disnae suit ye son, no a guid look at a'.

    64. Johnny says:

      Robert Louis:

      How will autumn 2018 be ‘too late to decide on a referendum’?

      Can debate whether a shorter or longer campaign would be better but if it’s held at the same time either way (spring 2019) what other difference does when it is called make?

      If your concern is about ‘enough time to persuade people’, I hear that. But that’s where everyone else getting involved and trying to make the case from now comes in.

      I do also hear you on ‘everyone knows we’re not getting a place at the table’, but today’s nod to that was more about showing that Ruth won’t do a hand’s fucking turn to even do that much for Scotland.

    65. HandandShrimp says:

      A sensible decision I think by Nicola. Of course Davidson and Co are moaning the face off everyone because another referendum is not off the table but with a potential hard Brexit around the corner that was never going to happen. Parked somewhere handy is good option.

      In a few weeks the Scottish Government will be opening the Queensferry bridge, baby boxes will start going out (something I didn’t pay much credence to but have been surprised by often they are mentioned in the office by women) and there is a real possibility that the Scottish Government will take Scotrail back in house. It will be interesting to see just how the Yoon Crew will cope, especially Davidson who will be keeping a weather eye on the palace coups in Westminster where they most certainly will not be getting on with the day job.

    66. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      Not sure which of the two links I recently posted are not working for you but both work for me clicking directly from Wings.

      Try putting http://www.mobilise.scot/ directly into your browser without the http part if that’s the one your after.

      Also here’s a direct link to the speech itself without visiting the website. https://tinyurl.com/yacbgxom

    67. galamcennalath says:

      We are going to have another independence referendum if Brexit takes Scotland out of the European Single Market. Only a Brexit deal offering that can stop the referendum.

      What is about that so many Unionists find difficult to follow?

      Absolutely nothing. They all understand completely. And it scares the bejezzus out of them.

      So they pretend otherwise, feint denial, or come up with more fake news to deflect from the reality.

    68. Big Jock says:

      The only material change is that the referendum won’t be in autumn 2018. That possibility has been removed today. So we are still on for Spring 2019. We have to put up with this Brexit garbage for a while longer folks.

      However think about this. By September 18 we are likely to be in full referendum campaign mode for a vote 6-7 months later.

      The SG are not going to do anything further on the mechanisms of indi ref 2 for 14 months. That doesn’t mean that the campaign hasn’t started. She has listened to people like Sillars and Neil. They have often said not one thing has been done to advance the cause of independence since 2014.

      I don’t often agree with that pair. But on that aspect they are absolutely right. We need the whole movement to come back together and persuade that 6% to get us out of toxic, decaying Blighty.

    69. Capella says:

      Alex Massie tweet, amused at the hacks rushing off to spread the wrong word:
      https://twitter.com/alexmassie/status/879697793048338432

    70. mogabee says:

      Another belter of a film from Phantom Power. A real gamut opening up of positive views. A bit of something for everyone!

      Nicola Sturgeon is a champion. Yes, nothing major has changed. Indyref will be held at end of BRexit process as reality sits up and begs for sympathy. :}

      She’s told us all in no uncertain terms to go out and make a campaign. Things are stirring, activists are traveling around Scotland talking of how to move forward and unionists are aware they have thrown the kitchen sink, baby an’ aw, at the Indy crowd and here we are.

      She has stymied that “stop Indy referendum” being shouted from the rooftops via a compliant media. Oh, they’ll still shout and bawl, but another referendum is reinforced for end of BRexit negotiations.

      So, get yer badges on and posters in windaes because we HAVE to get this right and people…

      DON’T LET THE BASTARDS GET YE DOWN 😀 😀 😀

    71. Petra says:

      Let’s get going. Join the SNP and / or donate some money. PLEASE.

      https://www.snp.org/joinus

      And I was just thinking that it might be a good idea to involve ex-pats from around the World. What about compiling a list of Scottish Clubs etc, like this one for example.

      http://www.rampantscotland.com/features/societies.htm

      Get someone on here to draft a letter basically asking them to support us financially. Divvy up the list between us, print a letter off and send. Worth a try don’t you think?

    72. sensibledave says:

      galamcennalath 4:23 pm

      You wrote “Absolutely nothing. They all understand completely. And it scares the bejezzus out of them. So they pretend otherwise, feint denial, or come up with more fake news to deflect from the reality.”

      No galamcennalath, the only thing the rest of us are concerned about is whether Ms Sturgeon gets a chance to wreck the Brexit Negotiations which she would try to do given the chance. THis is a very important couple of years for the UK and we dont want 1.5 million people wrecking it for the other 60 odd million.

      After the Brexit deal is completed we will revert to the norm, i.e. the majority of folk in Scotland will determine whether SCotland goes Independent, or not.

      Please do try to remember that the only people that have ever voted “No” to Scottish Independence are the Scots – no one else.

    73. skintybroko says:

      Frankly i like what Nicola has done, it is what I was expecting anyway in terms of the timetable for holding indyref2. By holding fire until Brexit terms are known there is even more scope for the yoons to truly screw up and there will be a very short period of canvassing rather than a 2 year fear fest.

    74. Proud Cybernat says:

      Oh the relief…

      http://imgur.com/a/xDf5l

    75. Breeks says:

      How would people feel about an open letter to Michel Barnier, briefly detailing the problem Scotland has with its media, and formally asking for his support to introduce a measure of devolved broadcasting for Scotland as a formal preamble in the Brexit negotiations?

      Once the letter is ready, we host it on a web page, but before the formal sending of the letter, we treat the signature on the letter as a public petition which YES can promote all around the houses.

      Three or four months from now, if we can submit that letter to Barnier with what, half a million signatures of loyal EU citizens pleading with the EU to help Scotland secure a fair and unbiased reporting of Brexit and IndyRef2, then at some stage surely that becomes a letter he must take notice of.

      Come to think of it, it might even be a worthwhile exercise for our YES tributaries in Europe to take on too, and turn half a million signature into one million, or two… or as many as our YES diaspora and like minded European supporters can amass.

      I’m not ordinarily a fan of petitions, but there is something about this petition which feels a little different about this one.

      What you think Wingers? Worth giving it a go?

    76. Jazzscot says:

      Well done Nicola, the best form of attack is defence. We just need to park the bus right outside Downing Street and let them make the mistakes (which they will) then when WE are ready and WE decide when to start the bus again we make sure that the majority of folk in Scotland are on board for the journey. #magicindybus

    77. Proud Cybernat says:

      I like the way you think Breeks. I think many inspired initiatives like this will help capture the imagination and is what we need to do.

      Inspire.

    78. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks @ 17:04,

      I like your idea. Positive, proactive and confidence-building. It has a kind of “modern equivalent of the Declaration of Arbroath” feel about it.

    79. manandboy says:

      Breeks – letter/petition to Michel Barnier.

      A great idea and a really good example of how to cure one of our abiding weaknesses viz, always being on the back foot, always defending the criticisms and attacks of the Unionists.

      In fact I’d say that doing everything ‘on the front foot’ is the only way to win Independence, by promoting an Independent Scotland, as against defending an Independent Scotland.

    80. Breeks says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      27 June, 2017 at 5:38 pm
      Breeks @ 17:04

      Funny, I was just thinking the very same thing, right down to the font and layout of the letter. Maybe not the tone perhaps. Not sure Michel Barnier would appreciate devout kisses on his blessed feet, but I’m sure some allowances could be permissible.

      But every signature could give a virtual “seal”, just like the Declaration of Arbroath. Possibilities as a fund raiser too…maybe a real seal as a wee trinket for your key ring.

    81. gus1940 says:

      BBC 6pm News 2 minutes in and we are getting a load of total twisted bollocks.

      When is it going to be made clear that after today’s announcement by Nicola it must be made clear to May and all unionists that Scotland’s assets will not be available to give away in the Brexit negotiations.

    82. COLIN ALEXANDER says:

      @Marie Clark

      Cockadoodledoo! “Bumptious” is an improvement on the usual “Yoon troll” insults so, thank you for that.

      You are right, I should not have said “MY” plan. Nicola Sturgeon has a broadly similar plan to assert Scottish sovereignty to try and change things so we are the ones making the decisions instead of others doing it for us – within the Union- whilst working to increase support for independence.

      So, that – at the right time, when the majority support independence – we have a referendum then.

      I totally agree with basically everything the FM has said: http://archive.is/vbURJ

      I believe pushing for Scottish Sovereignty Within the Union, as I’ve already outlined, is the way forward.

      So, Yessers, let us make the case for Scottish sovereignty within the Union – as an improvement on Westminster domination – whilst making it clear the best option longterm is independence.

    83. Marie Clark says:

      @ Colin Alexander, well Colin at least you have a sense of humour.

      Well done.

    84. Shinty says:

      Marie Clark – don’t worry yourself, most folk on wings know (or should by now) which posts they like to read and when to scroll on by.

      Fantastic film again from Phantom Power and a big thank you to ACG

    85. Tinto Chiel says:

      Quite a turnaround for AC Grayling. I remember his being quite dismissive of independence in 2014, which annoyed me, as he had always sounded quite rational before and I expected better of a “deep thinker”.

      I must say I am impressed by his courageous change of heart. I just wish Phantom Films had a wider circulation.

      As far as the FM’s statement is concerned, the MSM simply seem to be reduced to lying, and quite blatantly. Indyref2 postponed until after Brexit?

      Sheesh!

    86. Big Jock says:

      Another angle in this indicates ref.

      There will be another ge election in the next year. Current set up is short term. Nicola will be fully aware of that and wants to distance indy ref from campaign. Ruth will find it hard to frame the same anti indi angle if it’s not been announced.

      The SNP cannot lose any traction and indeed must win some seats back. Useful to say she is standing up for Scotland at WM level with her mps. Bear in mind that the Tories are likely to lose an election the SNP need to counter any Corban effect.

    87. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Fair enough @sensibledave says at 4:42 pm

      “After the Brexit deal is completed we will revert to the norm, i.e. the majority of folk in Scotland will determine whether SCotland goes Independent, or not.”

      The point you fail to grasp however is that this Brexit negotiation/deal CANNOT barter Scotland’s assets prior to a Second Indy Ref in which the Union has won.

    88. Cactus says:

      Welcome to Yes, AC Grayling.

      One wise choice.

      Scotland.

      ’17’s.

      X.



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