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We agree with Dorothy

Posted on August 22, 2019 by

It seems mad that this even needs to be said.

Luckily, as always, Wings is way ahead of the zeitgeist.

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    209 to “We agree with Dorothy”

    1. Fergus Green says:

      A liar is a liar full stop.

      Time to stop faffing about with phrases like ‘unintentionally misleading the public’ and time to do away with parliamentary privilege.

      If you lie for personal or political gain, you take the consequences if you are found out.

    2. Proud Cybernat says:

      The times we live in.

      Lying being ‘normalised’. Especially mental in the information age when the lie can be so easily exposed.

      Just dumb really.

    3. Dave McDave says:

      “How do we know our politicians are lying?” As usual, the fact that their lips are moving is a dead giveaway…..

    4. Arbroath1320 says:

      But … but … but … our politicians are not liars. I know this to be a fact. I know this because #BackDoorBoris told me personally that politicians are not liars!

    5. galamcennalath says:

      Politicians will lie if they can get away with it. It’s the type of people many of them are. The role of the media is (in part) to hold them to account.

      There’s a tale which was allegedly given to journalism students. If one person says it’s raining and another says it’s dry, the journalist’s job is NOT to report both opinions, it’s to look out the window and report who is a liar. That should be the real story they report.

      Why have they not been calling them out? Why does the media allow politicians to get away with it? A conspiracy theorist would claim collusion or dark forces at play.

    6. Millsy says:

      DO IT ! Every time ! However , too many journos have a vested interest in some of these liars and their parties , so it won’t happen !

    7. Dorothy Devine says:

      And is it not the job of the media to call out the liars as opposed to hiding them under diversionary tactics.

    8. Another Union Dividend says:

      With the massive majority of the press in thrall to Tory right wing ideology which then sets the agenda for TV broadcasters change is never going to happen.

      Who else thinks dirty tricks are at play over the SNP graffiti plastered on Lerwick’s War Memorial?.

      Is there by any chance a by election next week with the SNP make great headway on the Lib Dems majority?

    9. defo says:

      Can we all identify as ‘friends of Dorothy’ now?
      🙂

      MSM journo’s could start saying it as they see it, but like the rest of us, they have families to feed, vet bills for their cat’s to pay etc etc

    10. bobajock says:

      Well – someone did it and it didn’t seem to have any impact.

      the liars are enabled by liar-enablers .. (see BBC).

    11. Cammy says:

      Just look how it worked out for Carmichael withe th French Sturgeon smear…..Lib Dem leadership and Electoral court just shugged shoulders and said MP’s lie, its a fact and they lie to get elected.

    12. Welsh Sion says:

      The Westminster have it in-grained into them not to use ‘the L-word’. They are ‘The Right Honorable this’ or ‘The Learned Colleague that’, when they are neither. (Except in the Mark Antony sense.) Indeed, using ‘the L-word’ at Westminster is deemed not only ‘bad form’ but against some convention or other piece of Yookanian constitutional convention.

      This feeds into the MSM journos narrative who in order to maintain their sinecures (work and favour of MPs) regurgitate same, for us, the masses.

      A self-perpetuating cycle of mutual back scratching which does nothing to promote ‘democracy’. Liars go places and under such circumstances will never be held to account – witness Johnson, Trump and Carmichael, to name but one unholy trinity.

    13. revjimbob says:

      Politicians have always lied, but it used to be a lie about what they were going to do in the future if elected. Now it is about verifiable,objective facts.

    14. Dr Jim says:

      Is that not why the FM coined the phrase *serial misleaders*

    15. Geordie says:

      Aye, but too many of the ‘journalists’ are bare-faced liars too.

    16. Iain says:

      OT: on GMS this morning before 7: an exhibition of blatant bias by Hayley Millar, constantly interrupting George Kerevan but allowing Kevin Hague all the time he wanted to say whatever he wanted to. I hope someone has a recording to give it wider publicity online. After all the accusations and evidence, this really did seem like a deliberate ‘FU’ to independence supporters.

    17. Dr Jim says:

      @Geordie 1:57pm

      Absolutely, because all the *journalists* are very truthy people, maybe we should make a Loooong list of those *journalists*

      Let’s start with Nick Robinson

      I bet we run out of Internet

    18. robertknight says:

      Even when the b****rds are caught out, witness A’liar Carmichael, sod all happens and the muppets still re-elect them!!!

      I despair at times, I honestly do…

    19. Republicofscotland says:

      The Big Red (money we send to EU) bus was a prime example of Johnson’s barefaced lying.

      Independence will allow us to sniff out our own liars, and leave the rUK to deal with their own Walter Mitty’s.

    20. Skip_NC says:

      The trick is to exercise restraint in calling someone a liar. The word is used a lot here in the USA by (ahem) journalists seeking to demonize Donald Trump, even when there is doubt about the matter at hand. This simply galvanizes his base, encourages his supporters in elected office and gives his campaign something to argue with to the large body of unaffiliated voters (like me) who find large chunks of the monolithic parties unappealing. I maintain that excessive use of the word by his opponents is not going to help us unseat him, either in a primary or in the general election.

      So, think about the similarities between Boris Johnson and Donald Trump and carefully consider the smartest way of defeating them.

    21. John Rattray says:

      I don’t agree with the sentiment that all politicians lie, but it should be recognised many have made high positions through lying and misleading the public. This is possibly due to some wanting to believe the narrative that is spewed out by the liar and if it promotes your belef then who cares. I care and think many do, that is why I cannot comprehend accepting that a referendum stolen by lies and misinformation should be “honoured”. It seems to be accepted by many that “they are all the same” and all tell lies , this is what the smiling parasites want everyone to believe so they can continue to spin and peddle their crap.

    22. robertknight says:

      Iain @2:03

      What do expect from the BritNat Brainwashing Channel’s northern outpost responsible for the likes of Misreporting Scotland, Newsdrivel and GMS (Got More SNP-bad).

      Are we at all surprised? Thinks not!

      If we had the best health care, pensions, education, public transport in Europe it’d be as a direct benefit of the Union. If we had the worst, it’s because we’re just sh*te, as well as being too small/poor/stupid.

      ‘Heads’ they win, ‘tails’ we lose. The establishment controlled media in action.

    23. Clapper57 says:

      Sad thing is some journalists not only condone the lies but REPEAT them and present them as facts !…who owns their paper or controls their networks ?

      Why lie ? Why hide the lies ? Why believe the lies ? Why vote for the liars ?…well think we all know the answer to all of these questions but I am afraid honesty and politics are very distant cousins…in fact so distant they are politically estranged….one could also be forgiven for including journalism in this equation in relation to honesty.

      Currently the media promote dubious opinions being broadcast via individuals from Think Tanks whose true allegiances are hidden….and NOT mentioned or challenged by Journalists.

      Random members of the public whose overall understanding of the topic at hand is questionable, biased and unresearched…and usually consists of repeating soundbytes as quoted by politicians whose opinion and beliefs they endorse….and NOT challenged by Journalist.

      Politicians with extreme views given a platform to spout lies and more than often unchallenged by the interviewer who is a Journalist….of sorts.

      Biased individuals airing their views via press reviews based on biased , often lying, newspaper stories….a press review chaired by a Journalist …of sorts.

      Political debate shows that have an audience dominated by a specific demographic and a panel that also only represents specific parties and geographical areas ..where lies from both the audience and panel are never fully challenged and once these lies are aired their job, in telling them, is done …..this is also chaired by a Journalist…of sorts.

      So until we sort out the above then we cannot sort out journalists having the integrity to call out an MP or indeed ANYONE being given a public platform to lie…..

      So if we narrow the field of disallowing lies via MP’s and MP’s only then this would indeed be but a half baked cake…so you either cook the whole cake through cause if you do not then the public will still be offered something that is hard to digest and unpalatable by still being force fed lies via another vessel of misinformation …so maybe a good place to start would be outing the fat controllers of these newspapers and TV stations…as opposed to SOME only SOME of the Journalist ‘workers’ who are forced to accept, promote and told to never challenge the very lies you Dorothy have asked them to call out…we also need to be more discerning as to whose opinion we seek and if they lie, then they need to challenged and asked to prove what they say is TRUE.

      My use of word ‘SOME’ journalists is deliberate as there are some other Journalists who are only too willing to be the messengers of lies via MP’s et al….while others HAVE to in order to keep their jobs..we on here could name a few who are willing servants to their political masters….Lol

      Why lie ?…cause it works with your target audience.

      Why hide the lies ?…cause it works with your target audience

      Why believe the lies ?…cause it works to help damage those who are being targeted.

      Why vote for liars ?…cause it works to elect those who are like you and who target those who try to expose you voting for liars.

      Brave new world….could be brave new country …in an independent Scotland free from those who sell themselves to the masters of lies …….Biased Broadcasting Corporation is one prime example of a media that lies more than informs…once Scotland is free it’ll be cheerio BBC …Lol

    24. red sunset says:

      Off topic – maybe.

      Saw the Macron-Johnson broadcast at lunch time. Macron welcoming Johnson to Paris. It was very, very blatantly obvious the extreme differences in their attitudes to each other.

      Macron spoke first, welcoming Johnson, as is the polite thing to do. Johnson made great pains not to look at Macron, mostly looking up at the sky, hardly acknowledged anything he said. In stark contrast, when Johnson was speaking, Macron looked at him pleasantly, and appeared to be interested in what Johnson was saying.

      The difference couldn’t have been greater. One a gentleman, the other an oaf.

    25. Essexexile says:

      Priti Patel strikes me as somebody who quite genuinely does not know the difference between lying and the truth.
      She just says what she needs to say to navigate her way to the top. Veracity is simply not important.

    26. Josef Ó Luain says:

      That journos and politicians often lie, distort and generally mis represent truth and reality to pay their bills and keep their jobs is, of course, pathetic. But their choice of shit profession has nothing to do with anyone other than themselves; if only for that reason, I’ve no problem with calling them liars when they lie in the public domain.

    27. Helena Brown says:

      When it become acceptable to lie then society as a whole is doomed, if you cannot trust someone’s word what can you trust.
      I have always thought if you have someone who lies incessantly you want to stay clear of them. It is bad enough for a person not responsible for the country but totally wrong to allow those who are to continually lie.
      Dorothy is quite right because who else can hold these people up to the light but (ahem) Journalists.

    28. kapelmeister says:

      If a television interviewer is skilled enough they can find out a lying politician and then it’s up to the viewers to make up their minds about what they’ve heard.

      Sorry, but encouraging interviewers to label politicians liars on screen would achieve nothing except erode the standards of television journalism still further. Since tactics like that simply degrade the discourse to the level of playground name-calling.

    29. vlad (not that one) says:

      robertknight @ 2:14 pm

      Seconded.

    30. Clapper57 says:

      O/T

      Oh Hello we want the SNP to win the Shetland by election any ideas ?

      Yes I have one.

      Why what is it Tavish McTavish SNPeeeIR ?

      Why not deface the war memorial by writing SNP on it…that will win votes and get Shetlanders on side.

      Why McTavish what a genius idea…not too controversial…no one will take offence..in fact War memorial is in a prominent place…though the media will ignore it probably as it is promoting the SNP.

      Great…let’s do it.

      Meanwhile on planet REALITY….the opposite has occurred ….let’s look at the evidence shall we.

      SNP written on controversial object that is guaranteed to offend many and now being given much prominence by the media and promotion to the perception of SNP followers to be the disrespectful perpretrators of this heinous act.

      Ooutrage from Yoon supporters and yoon politicians…..my oh my this is indeed the political miscalculation of the century within Scottish politics via a supporter of the SNP IF it is indeed true………to disrespect those who died and NOT to think of political fallout for the party you supposedly want to win….that aside tis a awful thing to write ANYTHING on a war memorial never mind the name of a political party at such a critical stage in a by election.

      However as this thread is speaking of LIES then the truth fairy would indeed challenge this act being committed by one who supports the SNP as highly unfeasible….so dirty tricks or silly wee disrespectful vandal….basically perpetrated by a first class MORON ….and that my friends is NOT a lie….cue the media and Yoon politicians Dorothy…cause there’s lies to be told on this story Yee Ha.

    31. CmonIndy says:

      I use it regularly on facebook. Seems to most often coincide with Libdem (Fibdem) MPs and, of course Ruth Davidson.

    32. Effijy says:

      The L word must now be used as it describes Westminster Politician’s
      Actions like no other can.

      In fact I often use the D F L words when Red or Blue Tories are stroked
      By their Media friends.

      I’d like a party to stand on a ticket where politicians who deliberately mislead
      The public with impossible claims, such as £350 Million per week for the NHS,
      Should be heavily fined and suspended and for the bus slogan, imprisoned as an
      Act of treason.

      I still can’t believe Carmichael, the proven and confessed LIAR in the SNP French Gate case
      Could watch £1 million being based on a public enquiry and be told by the Westminster
      Parliamentary Standards committee that he had nothing to answer for?

      I do think Nicola should have sued him for slander!

    33. Welsh Sion says:

      This is for Iain @ 2.03 pm (exact spot in the show for you to find).

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0007rr0

      As for the SNP graffiti on the Shetland cenotaph. Why is that if ‘SNP’ graffiti is written somewhere we in the Party get the blame … and if ‘Q’ on ‘Tractor’ is daubed on a Unionist Party’s politician’s office door we *also* get the blame?

      I think I know the answer to my own question … but I think it worth highlighting (yet again) the double standards of (some) politicians and (some) journos.

    34. kapelmeister says:

      Tory candidate for Shetland Brydon Goodlad said in his statement about the graffiti that “those responsible should be met with the full force of the law”.

      Full force, eh Brydon? That does sound a wee bit violent. But no, I’m sure he just meant a hefty fine.

      That’s what you meant wasn’t it Brydon? A hefty fine. Just like the hefty 600 quid fine you received for breach of the peace at a football match. Nothing like a good hefty fine to instil that good old Tory law and order. Eh Brydon?

    35. Juteman says:

      I think some folk are getting mixed up between journalists,
      and TV personalities that are paid to speak the British version of truth.

    36. TJenny says:

      Maybe some SNPers wearing identifiable SNP garb, could go and clean it off, just to show we condemn it. A kind of act of goodwill. Or would that be seen as accepting responsibilty?

      WE all no yoons and no good deed going unpunished.

    37. Phil says:

      Can some one start – or continue – to call out broadcasters who are intellectually attempting to have us believe nonsense / untruths.

      Most recently on BBC Scotland GMS Wednesday and repeated later as an out-take our Economics & Business McGuru, Mr Douglas Fraser, explained how 8% of the UK population (Scotland) could possibly be responsible for 54% of the UK deficit. Utter nonsense but justified because this is the ‘data’ written into this year’s GERS.

      Richard Murphy found, by digging, that Scotland, 8%, and Wales, 4%, of UK population accounted together for MORE than 100% of the UK deficit.

      The Douglas Fraser school of justification for such conclusions? Because that is what is written. Intellectual scandal. Given to us as truth.

    38. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I’ve seen at least two presenters on CNN stop a discussion dead in its tracks and call out a statement (by a Trumpian, who else?) as a downright mistruth. And presenter Anderson Cooper for one has regular “keeping them honest” segments in his programme. So it can be done.

      Here in the UK in general, and in Scotland in particular, every and anything said by a politician is allowed to pass totally unchallenged by any presenter, whatever the TV channel. (In the case of the BBC, the rot seems to have set in badly after the departure of DG Greg Dyke.) Whether from presenter ignorance of the relevant facts (a straight professional failure) or from undue deference, it doesn’t much matter.

      The only exception I can think of was Isabel Fraser’s notable “whoa a minute there” challenge on Newsnight Scotland to the odious Ian Davidson while still an MP. Defending the reputation of her channel, no less, yet for whatever reason she didn’t last much longer there.

      So a long way to go, media folks. But at least it’s a start of some sort. Maybe they should all be sent on a compulsory training course taught by Stu!

    39. Cubby says:

      British Nationalists lie and they lie all the time about nearly everything.

      If the Britnats in the media refuse to lie then they are sacked/moved on.

      The most odious liars are of course the phoney independence supporters. The lying snakes in the grass think they are undercover agents of some sort. They come in many forms and a good few of the creatures can be found here on Wings.

    40. Davosa says:

      Well said Dorothy Byrne. Johnson is a lying, conniving, charlatan. These are his good points !

    41. Davosa says:

      Dorothy Byrne interviewed on Sky news by …wait for it… Kay Burrleigh on this. I mean to put it politely- she really must have no sense of irony.

    42. stewartb says:

      TJenny @4:32 pm

      You wrote: “Maybe some SNPers wearing identifiable SNP garb, could go and clean it off, just to show we condemn it. A kind of act of goodwill. …”

      Looks as if your wish has already been granted – at least in part!

      See: https://twitter.com/Sandybbfan/status/1164517034266419202

    43. Davosa says:

      Sorry Stu but one more thing.. ON GMS this morning the utterly ghastly Hayley Miller interviewed some creepy Tory. About 0645 I thinks. She allowed her to rant on about GERS figures totally un challenged. It was utterly pathetic. These people are clearly not journalists but just announcers who got lucky.

    44. Cubby says:

      “Wings is way ahead of the zeitgeist”. click on this above to see the liars exposed by Wings.

      The vast majority of liars reported on by Wings are the British Labour in Scotland liars. Lying Britnat politicians. Everyone knows what the Tories are. It’s British Labour in Scotland that have lied non stop to the people of Scotland. They tried to cultivate the lie that they cared about the people of Scotland. They’ve been found out finally by most people in Scotland.

      We don’t need a better Labour Party in Scotland we need it driven out of Scotland – extinguished completely.

    45. Proud Cybernat says:

      If you’re planning to deface a war memorial during an election period with ‘SNP’ – then why not ‘VOTE SNP’? Might as well go the full hog. In for a penny and all that.

      But no. Why not?

      Because some BritNat idiot couldn’t bring themselves to write “VOTE SNP”.

      They’re no’ very good at this false flag shit, are they?

    46. Dr Jim says:

      Sky news: in case you missed it

      86% of England’s water and rivers unfit to swim in let alone drink due to pollutants

      They’re in serious trouble down there

    47. Dan says:

      @Dr Jim

      And they are literally cracking on with fracking too.

      https://twitter.com/CuadrillaUK/status/1164289832601960456

    48. Robert Peffers says:

      @Dave McDave says: 22 August, 2019 at 1:25 pm:

      … “How do we know our politicians are lying?” As usual, the fact that their lips are moving is a dead giveaway…..

      Unfortunately, Dave, many of them have become so good bad at it they can now do it without moving their lips. A skill learned from those old TV entertainer ventriloquists. (Well those old guys and gal ventriloquists had to earn a living after the novelty of their acts was overtaken by stuff done on photoshop).

      Even more unfortunate is the fact that many others, particularly what nowadays passes for journalists, learned to lie in newsprint and as invited guests on the TV channels and in particular by the BBC channels. Others, particularly those claimed by the broadcasters as, “professors or Experts”, also got in on the act and now lying has become normalised so now poor old Joe & Josephine public just accept that if it’s on the telly, radio or dead tree press then it just has to be lies.

      It’s a funny old World we live in these days.

    49. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Cubby

      Well said old chap, my sentiments exactly.

      Englands Labour party in Scotland working flat out for the Tory regime.

      Whats that odious stench ? English Labour in Scotland.

    50. Muscleguy says:

      I agree entirely, if someone can be proven to be lying then you have a defence in law as a number of the Rev’s headlines, including the one linked, have shown.

      I suppose one answer is that the politicians would boycott your program/channel if they are not allowed to bend the truth without being called out on it. So it needs all media outlets to get on board and with the political leanings of the proprietors I cannot see it happening, sadly.

      Boris is already seemingly boycotting C4 News. When I had a TV I watched C4 News as they seemed the most likely to do this. Though I tended to wander off while they were doing England only issues like education.

    51. Clapper57 says:

      So…David Clegg tweets the following :

      “Boris Johnson’s Scottish Secretary comparing the SNP to extreme nationalists could be a Chris Morris sketch”.

      Great David , highlighting a Tory MP’s hypocrisy .

      However…along comes a defender of the Tory Scottish Secretary …one Alex Gallagher…with a tweet in response to David C stating ” Seen Lerwick war memorial recently ” ?….with a picture of war memorial with SNP written on it..that’s THE Alex Gallagher Labour councillor aka Red Tory and defender of Blue Tories.

      See abso..feken..lutely always but always Tory BEFORE SNP as far as Labour is concerned…that’s why LABOUR f**ked in Scotland cause they spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME defending Tories and attacking SNP…seems Alex has decided SNP supporters responsible for this act of vandalism….this should be called out…this is smearing SNP and promoting a lie as nothing proven as investigation is ongoing….

      So once again Dorothy…about these lies being promoted by politicians both LOCAL and NATIONAL…is this poisonous individual going to called out….perhaps Richard L should send him on Diversity training….currently his opinion is so diverse from what represents decency that it’s even beyond being offensive…distasteful and bitter ….and I think he is beyond any chance of succeeding in training, diversity or otherwise, to succeed in becoming a decent and honest human being….too far gone as a Muppet and Yoon fanatic.

    52. call me dave says:

      @Davosa

      Heard it too!

      Michelle Ballantyne MSP played it straight out of the Sec of State for Scotland Jack.Al’s interview the day before.

      Scotland not able to join the EU. Deficit of 6% would have to be 3% hard luck Scotland better with the UK to hold your assets etc etc.

      Mind you Derek MacKay on later to tell us that the UK deficit running at 9% but haven’t been asked to leave the EU yet!

      Then there was that tweet! FGS…Tory suspended pending hearing.

      Stayed away today from the goings on… But read on another page
      there that Jack.Al is likely to lose his seat. 🙂

    53. Robert Peffers says:

      @galamcennalath says: 22 August, 2019 at 1:28 pm:

      ” … A conspiracy theorist would claim collusion or dark forces at play.”.

      Have you forgotten, galamcennalath, that Westminster funds the BBC with an annual grant and the BBC now bungs parts of the West grant, (partly in its turn bunged by tax payers to Westminster), at newspapers throughout the United Kingdom ostensibly for BBC reporters to work for the newspapers.

      Yup – it is taxpayer funded collusion between Westminster the BBC and the dead tree press but only the taxpayer doesn’t get a choice in the matter.

    54. defo says:

      O/T
      Has anyone done a crowd funder for pitchforks yet ?
      🙂

    55. Tam Fae somewhere says:

      Brexit is rubbish!

      Household rubbish in the south of England might not get exported by ship will need to be transported to landfill in the “north”. Hope the northern English folks are glad to be getting all that rubbish.

    56. Clootie says:

      The clue is the many and varied terms developed at Westminster to call someone a liar without using the word liar.
      It now appears that using that simple word is avoided by all. The media gave the green light to the politicians by avoiding the word and pretending that the don’t lie.

      Use the word!

    57. Grendel says:

      I managed to get on “Call Kaye” on BBC Radio Scotland, and during the call I referred to Alistair Carmichael as a “professional liar”. Kaye was unhappy with the use of this, even though it was determined in court as being factually correct.

    58. TJenny says:

      stewartb – 😉 Now to work on what Saturday’s lottery numbers will be. 😉

    59. Republicofscotland says:

      How London extracts wealth from Scotland and the rUK.

      “In short, a large part of London’s wealth is the fruit of unproductive wealth extraction, not wealth creation. The wealth-extracting pipelines flow from all across Britain, but the destination of this wealth is to a small range of players, often in central London or offshore.”

      https://financecurse.net/uncategorized/how-financialisation-worsens-britains-regional-divide/

    60. Ken500 says:

      The Press is owned by tax evading non Dom liars who support illegal wars etc. Murdoch even sacked Johnston for lying. Dacre eventually retired. Lauded by the Press after causing the migration row and Brexit. Farague was given free range by the Press. The electoral commission does nothing about the Brexit criminals using unlawful data. Covers up.

      Westminster controls the BBC liars. Lying politicians, The lying politicians Clegg and Cameron put the cops into the Guardian and threatened the Editor for telling the truth. Greenwald/Snowden. The Daily Record Vow. The list is endless.

    61. Ken500 says:

      The liars do get found out and are voted out or sued. Another one gone, another one down. Another one hits the dust. The Tories are toast. So are the unionists. Johnston will not last to October. No Brexit.

    62. Brian Powell says:

      The thing about the wealth extraction through PFIs etc from Scotland to London is that Labour knew about it all, Labour politicians from Scotland were in the highest Ministerial positions in the country.

      Chancellor, PM, Deputy PM.

    63. defo says:

      I wonder what the spark will be that ignites what will become known as The Brexit riots?
      Years of ‘austerity’ & media fuelled xenophobia have filled the tinderbox to the brim.
      The establishment know they’re playing with fire, and carry on regardless.
      Is the City of London that valuable, and the US determination to scupper the EU project so strong, that they’ll bet their power over us? North & south of the Tweed.

    64. Col.Blimp IV says:

      I think I would tend to agree with Dorothy … We are definitely not in Kansas!

    65. grahamlive says:

      Christ, half the liars in that link I’d forgotten even existed.

    66. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Kesia Dugdale can be the Wicked witch of the East.

      Jo Swinson can be the Wicked Witch of the West.

      Gordon Brown can be The Angry Apple Tree.

      The Scottish branch of the Labour Party can be the Flying Monkeys.

      Ruth can be one of the other minor Wicked Witches, North/South, who cares.

      Boris can be The Wizard.

      …. and the Scottish Electorate can team up with Nicola(as Dorothy) and go on a quest to find some Courage, a Heart and a Brain.

      Stu can be Toto.

      …Follow the Yellow ‘n’ Black Road…!

    67. Dan says:

      Found whilst perusing a long dormant website 300 years from now…

      Great British Recipe circa late 2019

      Dish – Un-named

      Ingredients:-

      One leather shoe (used is best as the “meat” is more tender)
      One hunk of fatberg
      One stick

      Method:-

      Peel the shoe by removing the plastic sole.
      Place upper in a frying pan with the fatberg.
      Set fire to the plastic sole and place the pan above the flame to cook.
      Poke upper occasionally with the stick whilst imagining you are tending the preferred steak of your choice.
      Meal is ready once flame from the plastic sole has expired.

      Serving Suggestion:-

      Eat stick

    68. Dr Jim says:

      If Scotland’s *share* of our own oil is £1 billion then it naturally follows with all oil revenues Scotland would be at least £3 billion in surplus on day one of Independence, no deficit whatsoever and that’s not even counting all the other stuff they retain like which other country in the entire world pays over 5% for defence, £4 billion that’s £1 billion more than even Israel

      No way those lying Bastirts are spending that on defence or our skies would be chokka with jets banging into each other and big boats on Loch Long waiting to get people to staff them

    69. Famous15 says:

      Do you think that Jo Swinson will reluctantly accept that she would be a better temporary PM instead of Jeremy Corbyn?

      And then find a way to stay longer.

      Do you think?

      Do pigs fly?

    70. Clapper57 says:

      I think yon Moray disgraced Tory activist Jane Lax..a..tive will have to go out dressed as the Lone Ranger next time she goes out to canvass for the Tories….or rather..wear The Mask of Shame…

      I would happily volunteer to walk behind her with a bell crying ” Shame…Shame..Shame”..so that as well as her wearing the mask of shame she can also DO the walk of shame….she’s now a well kent face…for the WRONG reasons…Infamous as opposed to Famous.

      After all you must feel some shame if you support and canvass for the Tory party in Scotland ( though very much doubt she does)….plus you are nationally outed as a TROLL on TV and other media for tweeting a vile and shocking tweet that only the lowest of the low would consider a subject appropriate to laugh about…….laughing at someone having a miscarriage…shocking.

      She has had her three minutes of infamy lying on BBC QT about the SNP pretending she was ordinary voter while hiding her twitter TROLL persona …now Karma has visited…..let’s see if she is reinstated in the Tory party…if she is then they will never ever be able to TRY and take the higher ground in the moral stakes….not that they ever would be able to anyway…glad she is one of theirs…

      Ruth must be mortified…….that Jane Lax..a..tive has been OUTED as a TROLL….on BBC Scotchland and STV Scottish news…them Tories eh….kinda makes sense how they align with Brexit party, UKIP and DUP….birds of a feather flock together indeed.

      Absolutely disgusting and beneath contempt…dear oh dear disgraceful …that’s TROLLS for you…oh dear support for the Union does bring out the very very worse in some people…does it not.

    71. Essexexile says:

      Cubby at 4.48pm
      Your oft repeated tag line thingy needs a rethink Cubby.
      ‘British Nationalists lie, and they lie all the time about nearly everything’.
      Mmmm.
      Fair enough on the content, no issue there. But it’s a bit of a mouthful and grammatically rather clumsy. I’m no particular grammar geek but if you’re going to repeat a sentence every other post it’s worth getting it right.
      Otherwise you’re in danger of looking a bit foolish.
      I’m not sure it’s possible to lie ALL (100%) of the time about NEARLY ALL (less than 100%) of what your talking about.
      Just a thought.

    72. Athanasius says:

      Two minds on this one. It sounds righteous enough, but journalists calling out politicians for being liars would be a bit like the Great Train Robbers calling out the Hatton Garden Mob for being a bit dodgy.

    73. mike cassidy says:

      Sometimes you just have to say it as you see it – Scotland style.

      https://twitter.com/ek46/status/1163340442395713537

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      Just bee listening to Scotland at 7 and Gordon Ross and his guest were in conversation when that hoary old story came up tet again and they still don’t get it. The old load of rubbish was brought up by Gordon about how the SNP said if they got a majority of MPs at Westminster they would declare independence and he couldn’t understand why they had never done so.

      His guest, the farmer lady, was saying that long before she became interested in politics she was staying with some right Tory friends down south who had a son standing as a tory candidate and her friends had said then that Scotland would get an SNP government. They farmer lady and Gordon had also spoken about the McCrone Report and about the GERS Reports having been invented by former Scottish secretary, Ian Land, yet neither of them was able to connect the dots.

      The dots being First oil was discovered in the North Sea and McCrone Report had more or less said that the oil wealth had to be hidden or the already growing SNP would have a Scottish Government, Thatcher said if the SNP got a majority of Scottish Westminster seats the SNP would declare independence. Then we got devolution and a Scottish Parliament which was what killed the idea of a declaration of independence with a majority of SNP Scots PMs at Westminster and the McCrone report had been buried.

      Yet here was Gordon, yet again, saying he couldn’t understand why when Scotland did get a majority of Scots MPs at Westminster they didn’t declare independence.
      Sometimes I just want to scream!

      The McCrone report was buried to stop the SNP majority of Scots MPs at Westminster. Lang invented the GERS figures to Stop the rise of the SNP and Devolution ended the conditions where a withdrawl of Scots MPs and a declaration of Independence would legally give independence unless backed by a majority of Scots demanding it. Bach then Westminster Scots MPs had the people’s sovereignty but now that has passed to Holyrood which is why Nicola needs an indyref2.

    75. Cubby says:

      Essexexile@8.22pm

      Mr Essex the guy who is always begging me not to interact with him posts a comment about my grammar. Been missing me Mr Essex I think. I’ve not been missing you.

      I know what you don’t like about the comment. Britnats hate being called Britnats don’t they. And they really hate being called lying Britnats. The truth hurts.

      Just a thought

    76. Did the Scottish judges ,Lady Paton and Lord Matthews,rule in the Alistair Carmichael case that lying is basically ok,

      as long as you are part of the establishment or a British Nationalist,

      as in Coulson and Dugdale.

    77. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Essexexile at 8:22 pm.

      You typed,
      “Cubby at 4.48pm
      Your oft repeated tag line thingy needs a rethink Cubby.
      ‘British Nationalists lie, and they lie all the time about nearly everything’.
      Mmmm.
      Fair enough on the content, no issue there. But it’s a bit of a mouthful and grammatically rather clumsy. I’m no particular grammar geek but if you’re going to repeat a sentence every other post it’s worth getting it right.
      Otherwise you’re in danger of looking a bit foolish.
      I’m not sure it’s possible to lie ALL (100%) of the time about NEARLY ALL (less than 100%) of what your talking about.
      Just a thought.”

      In my brain, I have always taken your comments at face value, ie as a supporter of Scottish Independence but that comment looks like trolling so I may have to reassess my thoughts.

    78. Essexexile says:

      Unless of course you are referring to the times Britnats are not talking about politics and are not lying, such as:
      ‘I’d prefer red sauce on my chips’
      ‘It’s the green recycling bin this week dear’
      ‘Keep coming, you’ve got another three feet’
      ‘Sorry love, I forgot to get toilet rolls’.
      Maybe Cubby, as it’s such a cumbersome mouthful anyway, it wouldn’t hurt to add a further statement to clarify your point.
      So,
      ‘Britnats lie, and they lie all the time about nearly everything (the exceptions being related to mundane domestic matters in which it can be assumed Britnats, on occasion, are not lying)’
      There, sorted.
      You’re welcome.

    79. Lenny Hartley says:

      Dr Jim, re oil revenues taxation. I posted this on fb today,
      More on GERS , read today that oil taxation revenues allocated to Scotland in the latest GERS figures was 1.4 Billion pounds , Norway for example with similar production levels is estimated to be 14 billion pounds in 2019. How can that be ? Norway has a special tax rate on oil and gas production of 56% , the UK has replaced Petroleum Revenue Tax since the early noughties with a special Corporation Tax level of 30% , so why is Norways tax revenues ten times which the UK is claiming it received.
      Well one reason is that a lot of Scots Tax Revenue is not included in the Books for Scotland , its classified as Ex Reggio , a special Tax region which has mainly replaced the UK Continental shelf for the purposes of hiding Scotland’s tax income. Most people do not realise the extent of Scotland’s oil production which is running at an average of 1.5 million barrels per day, which at todays price of £50 a barrel give an annual income of just under 30 billion pounds for the oil companies. Even at the UK’s 30% Corporation tax rate , tax revenue should be around £9 billion pounds per year. Yet the Gers figures show a paltry £1.4 billion oil tax receipts. You would think the investigative journalists at the BBC would do a bit of research and call out the GERS figures for what they are, utter fantasy.

    80. call me dave says:

      Thoughts on the upcoming Shetland by-election

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/

    81. Lollysmum says:

      Why are they losing viewers hand over fist? Lies from the broadcasters who back up the politicians in full knowledge that they are lying.

      They think the public will forget. Might not be too good an idea to rely on that. When you get out of the habit of switching on then the liars aka politicians & broadcasters have already lost the argument. I wouldn’t dream of switching on after switching off in 2015.

      If I didn’t watch dvd’s that rather large box in the corner would just be gathering dust. I cancelled Sky (another broadcaster that writes it’s own version of the news) at the same time so they can whistle too.

    82. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Don’t forget an iScotlands % share of ALL UK assets accrued since 1707 @Dr Jim says at 8:10 pm

      Either as a population % share or a straight 50% (not an unreasonable request as the joint signature partner).

      I suspect Westminster would do the same as they did with Eire and say no share of assets = no share of debt 😉

    83. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I just turned off the STV evening news and wont be watching it again. It is now worse than BBC and infact an insult to its viewers.It obviously thinks they are idiots. It leads every night with a SNPbaaad tale,no matter how infantile.

    84. Molly says:

      Just a thought, when I had my Yes sticker on the back of my old car, I had an argument with a passenger who was attempting to through their fag end out the window.

      When I’ve walked with 1000s of others, we’ve left the place sometimes tidier than when we arrived

      When local elections and General elections have taken place here( used to very much be a Labour town) there’s been no graffiti

      So why now would someone suddenly in Shetland decide to spray SNP on a war memorial ?

      It doesn’t add up

    85. Cubby says:

      A saddo on BBC Reporting Scotland when reporting from Shetland:

      ” I don’t think Scotland would be anything other than a non entity if it went independent”

      It must be very sad to feel like that but you can always rely on Reporting Scotland to track down these saddos and broadcast their pathetic opinions.

      They then go on to make a big deal about the SNP graffiti.

    86. PacMan says:

      To use an Americanism, the journalist class including this one in the clip has drank too much of the kool aid of Hollywood liberal fantasies that they are the anointed ones who are the guardians of truth.

      It’s all very well calling out politicians as liars but that works both ways. Every time a SNP politician goes on camera, they will be instantly called a liar.

      It is all about integrity. Those at the top of the journalistic profession are paid salaries and enjoy lifestyles that most of us can dream about. Those below these top journalists only dream about reaching that goal and get sucked into that rat face. One or two will have that righteous moment like the one in the interview but the insincerity is in full show. Sure they get a few political scalps but they’ll just go back to the game of politicians telling porkies.

      What can we do about it? As always, keep more informed than these politicians and the journalistic ‘straight men/woman’ double acts but be more critical.

      It is no point getting frustrated and upset which ends up in anger. These politicians and journalists know how to deal with that and turn it against you so they are seen as the victim. Be smart and counter their scripted replies. An example of this is every time you go onto a call centre to complain you hear apologies this, apologies that. Why should some person a couple of grand above the living wage apologise for the mistakes caused by somebody else? It’s a totally scripted way to diffuse situations. In that way, get beyond the scripted replies and media training of these politicians without getting frustrated.

    87. Terry callachan says:

      Talking of lies
      Here is a fabulous explanation of how england , Westminster , House of Lords , BBC , STV and all the newspapers in uk tell lies about Scotland’s economy in what is called GERS

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/08/22/lies-damned-lies-and-accounting-tricks/

    88. Dr Jim says:

      Everybody must walk to work get the bus or cycle or take the train, yeah, and like everybody only ever carries a pen or a bunch of papers, nobody ever needs to carry anything heavier requiring the very much needed use of a flaming car, oh and don’t go into town with it, well you go into town to buy things that you need the bloody car to bring them home in, because I don’t know if they allow you on the bus with a flat screen telly in a big box and a hoover strapped to your back and two weans in a pram tied to your leg still screaming for the sweeties they never got as you packed tiny rucksacks on their backs with messages

      I’m getting so sick of these idiots who aren’t pensioners or aren’t fully able who might only be able to walk a couple of hundred yards in the first place, so of course they’re going to use their car to go to the shops otherwise they couldn’t carry anything back from the bloody shops because it would be too heavy, but that’s OK just have a heart attack trying, or even better never go out and phone home delivery for everything and die in the hoose

      Oooh! get an electric car, righty oh then I’ll just dig out £30.000 quid from down the back of the sofa for a stupid electric car that isn’t much better for the environment anyway and I’m 70 years of age so what the hell, I could die tomorrow and somebody else could use my new electric car that I cannae afford to turn up at my funeral in

      I do around three thousand miles per year in my gas guzzling (35 mpg)(£200 tax) petrol engined 16 year old Mercedes, my neighbour has a nice new modern eco friendly cheap to run (60 mpg) and tax (£20 per year)but he does around 35.000 miles per year, nobody on the planet can tell me this guy is better for the environment than me, and I’m subsidising his road tax for the privilege

      So Greenies, see yer environment see yer constant moaning about me and everybody else it’s time to give it a rest and moan about the governments of the world who saw this coming and sat on their arses saving money on science who might have been able to come up with something to fix this a very long time ago or moan about the countries who don’t give a toss one way or another

      Ah didnae cause it all, you people did by doing nothing before, now you want me to fix the big smoke filled problem that world governments made all their money from yet still pin the blame on me at the last minute

      Get buses, I know people who get buses for two stops, how environmentally friendly is that in yer stop start stop start diesel black smoked spouting bus

      Aye but it’s me, it’s me, all my fault

      I feel better now, not likely to die of anxiety saving the NHS money

    89. Hamish100 says:

      Yes folks the BBC believes this is news!

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-49439089

      The royals fly from Norwich to Scotland on a budget airline.!!!

      Only been to Norwich once. Never thought it was as big as Scotland though. How the eyes deceive.

    90. Terry callachan says:

      Lenny Hartley 9.28pm

      Hi Lenny,

      Westminster sells blocks of the waters around Scotland for exploration by oil and gas companies but doesn’t tax the oil and gas extracted

      whereas Norway takes tax from all oil and gas extracted from its seas

    91. Golfnut says:

      The media, collectively and individually lie every single day. They repeat lies, lies of omission, lies of misrepresentation, lies of disinformation, and they know they are telling lies and repeating others lies, they are propagandists who support a venal and corrupt establishment and political structure that lie to the electorate unashamedly. Asking one set of liars to take to task another set of liars is pointless.

      The only way to hold the media and politicians to account fairly is through the criminal courts particularly during any process which requires public participation, i.e. referendums, GE etc. The public have the right to make informed decisions, and just when was the last time that happened.
      The media and the political establish have shown they are incapable of regulating themselves.

    92. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Molly @ 21:54,

      I find it hard to believe that this brazen vandalism was done by a genuine SNP supporter.

      With all the predictable negative media coverage, you have to think here: cui bono? (who gains?)

    93. Cactus says:

      Dorothy knows…

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3DD3vDyuog

      Follow, follow, follow… hey hey hey, hehe, haha, hey!

    94. McDuff says:

      I see the Scotsman is pushing a report that warns of austerity looming outside the UK”.
      The report which is a ” OXFORD UNIVERSITY STUDY”is from Prof Jim Gallagher former SCOTLAND OFFICE economist and former advisor to GORDON BROWN.
      He rambles on about the economic state of Scotland citing GERS and the black hole.
      He then says that Scotland enjoys levels of spending of £1661 higher per head than rUK, that would be £8.3billion a year and £83 BILLION over 10 years but importantly doesn’t explain why Westminster is prepared to do this. Its the one question no unionist has given an answer to. But we know.
      Again its the constant bile and lies that make me loathe this union.
      Anyone know how I can remove teeth marks from my computer?

    95. Fireproofjim says:

      McDuff
      Don’t worry about the Scotsman. Their report will only be read by its ageing and declining Unionist membership who are never going to support independence anyway.

    96. Terry callachan says:

      To briandoonthetoon your post at 9.01….

      Didn’t you read the post two slots above yours ? The one you defend is busy calling the one you are castigating….a britnat !

      Don’t you agree that calling someone a britnat might lead to retaliatory comment ?

      It’s a habit a fair few folk on here have
      I’ve been called a britnat myself on here , I’m a member of snp , go to all their conferences go on autobiography marches etc etc

    97. Cubby says:

      McDuff@10.48pm

      We have all this GERS money coming our way (supposedly) but no one ever thought to spend some of it on making the main road link between Glasgow and Edinburgh 3 lanes. Not to mention the other new roads built with 2 lanes eg M77.

      People just have to look around to see that all the oil and gas wealth from Scottish waters is not coming Scotlands way. It goes straight to London and never comes back to Scotland.

      People will believe this GERS propaganda because they want to believe Scotland is rubbish. Sad sad people these Britnats.

    98. John H. says:

      Dr Jim. My diesel car uses AdBlue which is supposedly good for the environment. The government has decided to increase the road tax on my vehicle from £20 to £140.

      Not so long ago we were told to buy diesels because of the lower mileage. Now we are told to buy petrol or electric cars because diesels pollute the atmosphere. You don’t suppose they want us to keep buying new cars to help their car industry, which is going down the tubes now anyway, do you?

    99. Clapper57 says:

      @ McDuff

      ” Anyone know how I can remove teeth marks from my computer”

      Hi McDuff…try UltraBITE toothpaste…oh sorry cancel that…. it’s actually called UltraBRITE…me bad…again…

      Might work though…if you use an …ELECTRONIC toothbrush …me still bad….again

    100. Cubby says:

      John H@11.04

      I can’t say I am familiar with any Diesel engine/fuel that is “good for the environment”. Is this something that Volkswagen came up with?

    101. John H. says:

      Cubby 11.11pm.

      Less harmful to the environment. Happy?

    102. Bobp says:

      John h. On the the ball mate. My diesel car is ad blue as well.load of bollocks. Which is now why i tell myself….f-ck the environment, A government green tax raising excuse.

    103. Bobp says:

      Molly 9.54pm. Oh it adds up alright, If i wanted to make the irish look bad, i’d spray IRA on a brit war memorial.

    104. kapelmeister says:

      We are but five steps from servitude in one direction, one mile from sanity in the other.

      They, the ill-wishers, have sought to portray normality as a tyranny. Sought to make fear and apathy the dual monarchs reigning over Scotia.

      One mile is not far.

    105. Thepnr says:

      @McDuff

      “Professor” Jim Gallagher is not a real Professor, just one that pretends to be and the media like him because he’s a Unionist and they believe using the title “Professor” bestows upon him some gravitas.

      The truth though is that he is another Britnat chancer that is paid to distort reality on behalf of his beloved Union.

      He was exposed years ago as another lying Britnat, they lie and lie all the time, that’s what they do. Read this.

      http://www.ericjoyce.co.uk/2016/11/the-unionist-campaigner-and-pretendy-professor-soldiers-on/

    106. Dr Jim says:

      Remember when the banks decided to go bust, just like the motor thing, who pays, it’s always us, people eat too much, tax the sugar, hold on, people get fat because they don’t exercise, we’ve eating sugar forever, when I was a kid you never saw obesity because folk were too poor to have it or had to run everywhere, now they’re taxing me because other folk won’t exercise

      See, everything’s our fault so tax us more on the pretence of making us healthy, problem with that is we must be healthier because we’re all living longer, Woops I see another tax coming

    107. Bobp says:

      Kapelmeister 11.31pm. ‘Fear and apathy ruling over scotia’. You forgot ignorance and stupidity.

    108. Bobp says:

      Sbould also have added bigotry.

    109. dakk says:

      And loathing

    110. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Bobp @11:16

      Hardly a like for like comparison, the demarcation lines between
      Nationalist and Unionist are a tad more stark on the Emerald Isle than they are here.

      I read it as good news for the SNP’s chances in the bi-election. Tavish anti-Scott must be panicking, if he has sent one of his minions to desecrate a war memorial under a false flag.

      If the Lib-Dems didn’t think there was political capital to be dredged, the authorities would have sent someone round to scrub such an offensive piece of vandalism off, before the paint had time to dry, never mind hold a press conference about it.

      That’s what happened when we painted “Go Home English Queen” on a railway bridge that Liz was due to drive under (the following day), on her way to a ribbon cutting ceremony.

      Gang slogans and the like could remain unmolested for years in our town.

    111. Bobp says:

      Col.blimp. tbe way politics are lining up in Scotland, not a lot of difference in the demarcation lines.

    112. Harry Shanks says:

      I’m all for “using the L word” about Johnson.

      In fact I’d happily throw in the F B C W S A words and many more besides

    113. Street Andrew says:

      ‘How do we know that politicians are lying?’ She asks.

      In the case of the Tory party, you just need to observe whether their lips are moving.

      It’s a fairly reliable guide to apply to Labour Party politicians too.

    114. twathater says:

      As I wrote on Wings yatube link

      UNFORTUNATELY the MSM in all forms have not EXPOSED these liars by not actively calling out their lies , in FACT many of the MSM particularly the bbc and other broadcasters have actively participated in spreading and adding to these lies . IMO journalism and journalists have FAILED the population , they are meant to hold power to account , not collaborate with these fraudsters to conceal the TRUTH

    115. Patrick Roden says:

      Just a heads up to something Craig Murray said on his blog, in his article about Jo Swinson.

      I wanted to share it because I think it’s an excellent point:

      “On second referenda, I do not believe it is democratic to have one before the result has been respected and it has been tried. Thus the result of the Scottish referendum was respected, continuing in the Union has been tried, and proven not to be what was promised. After five years of respecting the result, it is perfectly legitimate to vote again. “

    116. Breeks says:

      Cubby says:
      22 August, 2019 at 11:11 pm
      John H@11.04

      I can’t say I am familiar with any Diesel engine/fuel that is “good for the environment”. Is this something that Volkswagen came up with…

      Rudolph Diesel’s original ‘diesel ’ engine as invented was intended to run on peanut oil. Yes, it produces hydrocarbon waste, but it’s a carbon neutral cycle which first draws CO2 from the atmosphere to grow the peanuts.

      More encouraging for Scotland… I read an article which for the life of me, I can’t remember if it as Canadian or Scandinavian, but it taught me a thing I didn’t know.

      I always assumed that Hydrogen for Hydrogen fuel would be created by the electrolysis of sea water, but the H20 bond of water is very strong, and it takes an uneconomic amount of electricity to separate the Hydrogen. Not a problem for a nation producing a surplus of renewable clean energy, but even so, inefficiency is never a good thing. But apparently, it’s easier to extract hydrogen from a HydroCarbon molecule than a Water molecule.

      However, the article I read celebrated the breakthrough in releasing the Hydrogen not from water, but directly from the HydroCarbon state of (presumably) a fossil fuel. That means (I’m off piste here, the article didn’t go this far) a different type of refinery, not to distill crude oil into the spectrum of tar, diesel, petrol and aviation fuel, but to extract the Hydrogen from the chemical formula before the fuel is burned to release CO2.

      If that’s all correct, then it’s a second wind for Crude oil, because a different process from petrol production can deliver Hydrogen production from the same raw material. That could be a massive, massive, break for the petrochemical industry.

      Oh Scotland, Scotland, clean renewables and “clean” oil…. lift your eyes from despair and imagine the possibilities, if only we can kick out the arrogant lodger whom we all know is stealing from us and lying through his teeth. This is our land and ocean floor, not his.

      We’re not at end of anything, but the beginning of everything…. If only we’d get off our fkg knees and stop listing to bullshitting propagandists telling us black is white.

    117. Breeks says:

      It was Canada….

      This isn’t the link I first read, but same subject…

      https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2019/08/20/pollution-free-hydrogen-green-energy-breakthrough.html

    118. admiral says:

      Molly says:

      So why now would someone suddenly in Shetland decide to spray SNP on a war memorial ?
      It doesn’t add up

      Molly – it adds up perfectly if you consider Rule 1 in the Lib Dems Dirty Tricks Election Playbook. Which goes something like “do anything to smear the opposition” 🙂

    119. Sinky says:

      I see arch Unionists and former Labour Civil Servant “Prof” Jim Gallagher given much press coverage for the latest doom ridden project fear paper in independence.

      It should be pointed out to Yoons going about about GERS that if they actually studies the report they would see that:

      The GERS deficit is already lower than the Growth Commission’s projection for 2021-22 (less “austerity”).

      At £62.7billion, Scotland’s income is enough to cover all devolved spending, including all pensions and social services.

      The £12.6 bn ‘deficit’ is mainly down to:

      £3.3bn removed from Scotland’s accounts for UK military, (Ireland spends 881m Euros each year also Denmark and Finland spend much less than £3bn annually)

      £3.16bn charged to service Westminster’s “black hole” national debt of £1800 billion

      £1.71bn for UK ‘service costs’,

      £989m for ‘international services’

      plus £303m for ‘EU transactions’.

      Of this total of £11.4bn almost £10bn is spent by Westminster outside Scotland.

      The deficit could be halved in an independent Scotland if oil and gas companies were taxed at Norwegian levels. Last year Scotland’s production was 90% of the Norwegian level yet GERS only managed to show just over one billion of tax receipts, while Norway raised £11 billion in 2018.

      Excluding London and South East, the rest of England has more than twice Scotland’s deficit while Wales and Northern Ireland are even worse which just shows how London HQs get the credit for profits generated in the rest of the UK.

    120. manandboy says:

      The GERS figures remind us of Westminster’s true feelings about Scotland. They are the feelings of a slave owner who wants everyone to believe that he is doing his slave a good turn by denying him his independence and exploiting him to the full.

      While the No voters just smile in admiration.

    121. mountain shadow says:

      Rev….

      Some tool on The Herald comments page openly calling you bigoted and racist…..
      ————————–

      Ian Anderson23 mins ago
      “The First Minister said the person displaying it did not speak for the SNP. “That kind of sentiment has no place in Scotland,” she said. “People who put up banners like that, I don’t want them in the SNP.”

      This really is getting quite amusing now. If the First Minister claims that she doesn’t want these people in her party then maybe there is a place for them in a new openly bigoted, racist ‘Wings’ party after all..? The Scottish National Party would then lose around 50-60% of their voting base straight off the bat.

      Nicola Sturgeon can say as many times as she likes that she doesn’t want ‘people like that’ in the SNP, but the fact is they are all there – complete with their anti-English bigotry – and all because of the work Salmond and her own self!!

      ——————–

    122. hackalumpoff says:

      See nana’s links here:
      https://indyref2.space/nanas-links-2/

    123. Breeks says:

      I confess, graffiti is graffiti, and my first instinct is not to read it. That’s not to be prude, but to be neutral… I don’t care if it’s a pro Indy person with a spray can, or an anti Indy person trying to frame the SNP… at the end of the day, it’s not Banksy who’s responsible, and in both situations you’re dealing with a very ordinary idiot who expresses themselves with an aerosol.

      I have to confess however, when I check in with my repressed “inner” hoodlum; if I was going to desecrate a war memorial, (yeah, toes curling already), I think I’d go the whole rebel-psycho bit and spray something nasty and provocative. Spraying “SNP” is a bit Father Ted, and his banner saying “Down with this sort of thing!” And a trail of breadcrumbs leading directly to the SNP??? Oh please..

      Yes, I know, you’d get yourself executed for spraying “V” on a wall in WW2, but the statement isn’t the “V”, it’s the act of defiance in spite of death.

      Kudos to the girls who cleaned it off however. YES spirit triumphs again. An errant Yesser or a deviant Noer, they’re no match for YES detergent and elbow grease.

    124. Giving Goose says:

      Mountain Shadow
      The counter to the person in the Herald is that he/she is Anti-Scottish.

    125. Dr Jim says:

      @mountain shadow 8:33am

      The totally deliberate conflation of Anti England politics with Anti English people

      It’s like saying you love Scotland but hate the weather, Scottish people don’t think anybody means the people

    126. Breeks says:


      mountain shadow says:
      23 August, 2019 at 8:33 am
      Rev….

      Some tool on The Herald comments page openly calling you bigoted and racist…..

      I keep hearing about this hatred and nastiness spread by Alec Salmond and Nicola. Now I’m no fan of Nicola, nothing personal, but hatred and nastiness??? … I’m struggling here. This is gaslighting isn’t it? I’m not even sure Nicola has the capacity even to be a bit cross, nevermind being driven by hatred and nastiness.

      It’s actually SO surreal and through-the-looking-glass wrong, that it has to be deliberate and orchestrated gaslighting.

    127. manandboy says:

      Tom Wills (@tprwills) tweeted at 9:52 a.m. on Thu, Aug 22, 2019:
      Statement on vandalism in Lerwick: https://t.co/g1aTZF9D6l
      (https://twitter.com/tprwills/status/1164460207533121536?s=03)

    128. manandboy says:

      The ‘Boris’ Johnson Premiership : everything you hear is a veneer. Beneath is an infestation of woodlice and rotting wood. As the taxpayer funded public purse nears empty, the cult of Neoliberalism, so embraced by Thatcher and the Tories, must find new cash and new assets to steal, sorry ‘transfer’.
      But the most immediate objective is to escape from the EU’s imminent legislation on tax evasion, and on low pensions.

      Johnson will not utter a word about his true intentions.

      Ps. Still not a peep about the massively important oil & gas industry. (‘It’s in Scotland, you see, and that’s a problem’)

    129. Rick H Johnston says:

      Some politicians lie by omission.
      Did our new Scottish Secretary of State just forget to congratulate the Scottish government on its achievement in reducing the deficit by a stonking 1.2 Billion pounds.
      Or did Alister Jack check his job description with Tory HQ and decided Not MY JOB

    130. Giving Goose says:

      manandboy

      The usual Unionist cult stalkers on that Twitter thread.
      It’s sad really. They really have no insight.

    131. Breeks says:

      Anybody care to speculate on what happens in 68 days if Scotland’s Sovereignty is overruled, and we are dragged out of Europe by an act of colonial subjugation?

      It would seem that’s the default version of events if nothing changes, and we don’t seem to have any red lines between now and the end of October.

      Do we intend to fight Brexit, or has our capitulation already been decided?

    132. Dr Jim says:

      BBC TV informs us that the Edinburgh festival is a hotbed of violence sexual harassement and threatening behaviour and brings on several women performer participants to tell us all about their terrible experiences, then goes on to show film clips of even more women complaining about the non inclusive non diverse very white middle class elite atmosphere in Edinburgh but at the same time drunken lad culture of groping women

      Police Scotland in a statement said *We have had no reports of this behaviour and police Scotland have a highly visible presence at the festival*

      The programme went on to insist that women don’t want to report these offences because *they’re too busy and it could take a long time*

      Equity the Union in Scotland said *If anyone experiences such behaviour they must report it and come forward*

      The BBC spent around 25 minutes emphasising this behavioural problem at the Edinburgh festival which no one has so far reported or made a complaint to police Scotland about

      One performer said *I go every year to do my shows and it’s been happening for years, people have threatened to punch me in the face*

    133. galamcennalath says:

      “The Alex Salmond Fit-Up”

      https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/the-alex-salmond-fit-up/amp/

      Interesting. The more I read about ‘the Salmond Case’ I realise the objective is not to get at him, it’s to prepare the ground for an attack on the Scottish Government. At just the right moment, either close to IndyRef2 or Holyrood2021, there will be claims that there are all sorts of serious failings at the heart of government.

    134. Graf Midgehunter says:

      From one of Nana’s links but with the translation.

      http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2019-08/boris-johnson-berlin-besuch-brexit

      Merkel and Macron know exactly what a blowhard peice of s**t Boris J is.
      —————–
      “Scapegoat? No thanks!

      The EU can not become a superstar in Boris Johnson’s Brexit drama. Because the populist and EU-despisers does not seem interested in a real solution.

      A comment by Ulrich Ladurner

      August 21, 2019

      Boris Johnson – “We Can Do It” British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has expressed his confidence in finding a solution to the Brexit dispute. However, he demanded renegotiation again.

      Today Berlin, tomorrow Paris. Boris Johnson is on a European tour. Continental Europeans should warmly welcome the man who has spread so many lies about the European Union as hardly any other politician. After all, he is the prime minister of a large European country that has bravely – and for a time all alone – fought against the Nazis and otherwise has many advantages, apart from the food. “Welcome!”, The German Chancellor Angela Merkel called him at the press conference on Wednesday evening and pushed friendly words behind. OK then. Every Briton should feel warmly welcomed in continental Europe today and in the future, even the merciless populist and EU scandal Boris Johnson.

      But hopefully the Chancellor asked the British Prime Minister in the subsequent discussion just as friendly: “What have you brought us, dear Boris?” Johnson may have been a little embarrassed, not to say stammering. Because he has brought nothing (new), that was already clear before his visit.

      In a letter to EU Council President Donald Tusk, he calls for canceling the backstop of the Withdrawal Treaty This is the scheme under which Northern Ireland will remain in the European Customs Union as long as there is no new agreement on EU-UK relations. The backstop is designed to prevent a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

      Boris Johnson promised “alternative agreements”, for which he would now use more force than his predecessor. This meant Theresa May, the Boris steered in a long battle of weariness from office. But even May had been talking about other, alternative agreements over the past three years, which should prevent the backstop as well as a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Just like Johnson, May did not go beyond that indefinite phrase. To this day nobody knows what these alternatives are. The EU can not get involved in this.

      Johnson did not come to Berlin to offer solutions. He just wants to convey to the British at home that he has tried everything, but also really everything, to prevent a no-deal, an EU exit without an agreement, but in the end has failed because of the stubbornness of the rest of the EU.

      If the Brexiteer Johnson leads Britain from the EU on October 31 without any agreements, then when it comes to serious economic and political upheavals, then he needs a scapegoat. Angela Merkel and French Prime Minister Emmanuel Macron are to appear in the eyes of the British as cold apparatchiks, who always answer the urbarischen desire for freedom and sovereignty with a “no, no, no!” Finally, the British were punished for so much freedom from the EU. The EU as a punitive empire. Johnson wants to knit this narrative. This is ugly, but it is not forbidden.

      Therefore, friendliness remains the order of the day. But a few clear sentences are certainly necessary: ??”Dear Boris, everyone sees through your game, but we are not a scapegoat!”

      If Angela Merkel does not tell him, maybe Emmanuel Macron will. Also publicly.”

    135. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Breeks at 10.44

      “Do we intend to fight Brexit, or has our capitulation already been decided?”

      Only by you it would appear.

    136. manandboy says:

      Colonial Dyslexia, invoked by Westminster when confronted with Scotland’s Independence.

      “Most people think that dyslexia causes people to reverse letters and numbers and see words backwards. … Because word reading takes more time and focus, the meaning of the word often is lost, and reading comprehension is poor. It’s not surprising that people with dyslexia have trouble spelling.”

      https://www.google.com/search?q=dyslexia&oq=dyslexia+&aqs=chrome..69i57.4032j0j7&client=tablet-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

    137. mike cassidy says:

      Craig Murray’s blog

      (The anonymity factor is troubling)

      The reason why Alex Salmond’s damages award was so high.

      http://archive.is/sRkOP

    138. Scott says:

      Speaking about MPs lying remember this.

      Sir Malcolm Bruce: Commons would empty very fast if lying MPs had to quit
      This article is more than 4 years old
      Former MP insists lying is widespread as he attempts to defend Alistair Carmichael’s conduct in relation to leaked Nicola Sturgeon memo

    139. manandboy says:

      By Ulrich Ladurner, courtesy of Graf Midgehunter.

      “Dear Boris, everyone sees through your game,.. ”

      In the EU maybe, but not in England, and not even in Scotland.

      For many, Johnson is just a pane of window glass, but, for Tory voters in particular, he is a mirror reflecting themselves.

      Buffoon to some, brilliant to others.

      While behind him, ‘team Cummings’ contains some people who have serious and ‘unfriendly’ ambitions to change the existing order of life in England and the rest of the UK, but in a way which serves only their interests, and those of their overseas associates, particularly in the USA, where the EU is considered a legitimate target.

      So, how do you see Johnson?

    140. Peter Mirtitsch says:

      If we agree with Dorothy, does that make us all “friends of Dorothy”?

    141. Breeks says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      23 August, 2019 at 11:20 am

      Breeks at 10.44

      “Do we intend to fight Brexit, or has our capitulation already been decided?”

      Only by you it would appear.

      That’s terrific news. Obviously you can now explain my Joanna Cherry is lobbying for a People’s Vote, Ian Blackford says we won’t be Brexited against our will, Nicola promises a referendum next year, maybe, and Angus MacNeil wants to discuss a different timetable. Not only PR voting, but government by multiple choice eh? Go Holyrood!

      For the record, I will never give up on Scottish Independence, but I can’t say the same about the SNP and their indifferent abandonment of Scotland’s constitutional sovereignty. Ian Blackford says the words, but somehow you get the impression his heart’s not really in it.

      Still, we’ll see for ourselves over the next few critical weeks.

    142. Hamish100 says:

      breeks

      “the lords house has many mansions”.

      Don’t assume that your way is the only way.

      We all want independence

      Well some do.

    143. Scozzie says:

      Breeks @ 12.37pm
      Yes, indeed these next few weeks will be critical. I hope there’s a big bloody rabbit about to be pulled out a hat. My gut says it will be same old, same old, play for time mantra. The clock is ticking.

    144. kapelmeister says:

      Now there’s a curious thing. The war memorial graffiti story has disappeared quickly from the BBC web pages. No mention of it anywhere on the site.

    145. Graf Midgehunter says:

      manandboy says: 11:48 am

      “Dear Boris, everyone sees through your game,.. ”

      In the EU maybe, but not in England, and not even in Scotland.

      So, how do you see Johnson?
      —————

      Through the eyes of a Scot, a European in Europe. From the outside looking in.

      Unfortunately most of the population of the UK, living in their Britnat propaganda bubble, have been methodically brainwashed into believing the “British” and Establishment are held in awe by the rest of the world. It’s bo***cks.

      Brexit was concocted by the Establishment to get out of the EU which has legislated new laws to combat tax avoidence, tax havens and shine a bright light into any dubious money laundering tricks of which the “City” abounds.

      Getting out of the EU which is the largest trading block in the world with many, many FTA’s and other agreements is not an easy task and will have very serious consequences for the economy of the UK. People will suffer, businesses will go bankrupt, shortages of vital supplies etc. World business will also be partly effected.

      WM knows what’s coming and it’s their own fault/stupidity but that’s not what they want the brainwashed public to know, so they HAVE to find someone else to put the blame on.

      May wasn’t getting anywhere so they needed a new figurehead with new orders from the dark frontmen of the Establishment.
      The jolly Boris has to get Brexit off the backs of the UK and on to the EU. Full stop.

      The EU is not stupid and the rest of the World certainly isn’t because they see what’s happening every day as well, they’re not inside the little WM fantasy world.

      Boris is playing the blame game but the world/EU sees very clearly through it.

      Scotland must be independent and away from this madness.

    146. Confused says:

      Reading Craig Murray’s latest on the Lexo Fitup – it’s good, very good – but

      ITS JUST EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT

      – nothing to see here, move along. The prime movers in the fitup seem to be 3 women, like the witches in Macbeth, stirring an evil pot.

      I have never had much respect for the law and when I turn my cynicism up to the maximum it is there it seems tbe most accurate. Just assume the worst and you’ll probably be right.

      “Lawfare” is something for the sneaks and cowards of this world – but, surely some counter move is possible by Salmond.

      – why not a countersuit, for ? I dunno – IANAL – you make something up

      “reputational damage” – everyone thinks he’s a nonce or a r4pey bastard – “did he stir the haggis?” – HO HO FUCKING HO
      “denial of natural justice” – its looks like a fitup and they are spinning it out, obviously
      “restraint of trade” – he is a politican who has been put out the game, a star performer for us, who cannot do his “day job”, just as a big fight is coming up
      “conspiracy”
      “racketeering”
      … go thru the lawbooks and pile it on
      – don’t sue the scotgov sue the UK gov and its agencies; never mind the monkey, take it to the organ grinder

      – go for a dr-evil-esque “100 MILLION” in damages

      here is the clever part, somehow, find a reason to submit the claim in a FOREIGN COURT claiming BIAS in the UK – as there so obviously is; Lexo has had some small results so far, even within the system, but when there is a politcal angle, ranks get closed, when push comes to shove.

      Make it a massive international story : SALMOND SUES UK GOV in NEW YORK AND STRASBOURG FOR 100M

      – get the international press involved, asking questions our tame press, won’t.

      Personally, if I had to put my money, my life savings on it, I would bet that at least one of the three women, likely EVANS, is an actual apook. She will be given a gong for her services in 2040, for “defence of the realm”

      Bit of backseat driving here, and I am sure Salmond has got good people around him but – FFS – DO NOT TRUST OUR COURTS – ultimately, they ARE BENT and can produce ANY KIND OF BIZARRE RULING THEY WANT, layered in sophistry and obfsucated legalism.

      JUDGE = PAEDO in a WIDOW TWANKEY costume
      LAWYER = MERCENARY LIAR
      CIVIL SERVANT = AGENT OF THE CROWN

      I remember my Modern Studies getting it drilled into me about the superiority of the UK political system – its separation of powers, and how “an independent judiciary” is a cornerstone of freedom. Don’t make me laugh – if you really believe this, you are the worst kind of fucking idiot.

      There’s a piece of internet lore that to find the strangest, most bizarre behaviour imaginable, you type into Google “florida man” … I do this instead – “scots court rules”.

    147. Pete says:

      I really don’t understand why so many folks work themselves into such a lather over the efficacy of the Scottish Governments GERS figures which are an improvement but still show a fairly large deficit which is way over EU limits.If they were intrinsically wrong surely the SNP government would be calling them out.
      My point is that anyone who wants independence should not be worrying about economic deficits but rather should be looking to a bright future of being able to make ones own decisions either of a socialist or capitalist nature. The Growth Commission expects some years of austerity but so what!!
      Surely independence transcends economic matters.
      When I voted to leave the EU, I factored in a few years of being poorer but the benefits of being free from unelected European bureaucrats made the possible financial sacrifice worthwhile.
      To reduce independence down to money totally devalues the cause.

    148. Graf Midgehunter says:

      http://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-blame-game-begin-boris-johnson/

      Boris trying to protect the wealth of the Establishment.

    149. geeo says:

      No Treaty of Union = No Uk.

      Johnson and chums missing a trick here:

      If WM decided to agree with Scotsgov to end the Treaty of Union today, then England would be OUT the EU tomorrow (figuratively speaking) as the entity which is an EU member, would no longer exist.

      All Boris Johnson has to do to break the deadlock and save the Tory Party in England, is to not try to delay the Dissolution of the Treaty of Union.

      63% of his Tory party members (who made him PM) AGREE with that idea.

      63% of Tory members polled, stated they would give up the Union with Scotland to secure Brexit for England.

      Of course, the plan can only fail if England were desperately in need of Scottish resources (all £200bn of them) ????

      https://www.facebook.com/349522361761919/posts/2232531640127639/

    150. Cubby says:

      Every year there is always at least “one independence supporter” who says GERS must be basically correct or the SNP would call them out.

      This must be the type of independence supporter who has never read any of the Wings comprehensive debunking of GERS ( eg see this time last year on Wings).

      You can only be responsible for a deficit or surplus if you control all of Scotlands revenue generating and expenditure. Scotland does not do this therefore it is a UK deficit.

      Scotland does not have a deficit. This talk in GERS of Scotland being in deficit of billions is propaganda nothing less nothing more. It is just more Britnat lies and boy do those Britnats love their lies.

    151. Dr Jim says:

      People don’t know there are two Scottish governments and the ones we elect can’t call the ones we don’t elect liars, if they do then how do people trust anything any government says in the future even if it’s the truth

      If folk are interested in political stuff in Scotland they must first learn what our government has the power to do and what it has not the power to do

      Like folk moaning about the deportation of people, Westminster has all the power over that to do what they want, the Scottish government can only plead people’s cases for them

    152. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Pete at 1:28 pm.

      You typed,
      “When I voted to leave the EU, I factored in a few years of being poorer but the benefits of being free from unelected European bureaucrats made the possible financial sacrifice worthwhile.”

      RE: unelected bureaucrats.

      The EU Commission employs 32,399 “unelected bureaucrats”, for 28 member states.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48963555

      The UK Civil Service employs 414,390 full-time equivalent (FTE) civil servants – sorry “unelected bureaucrats”, for one state.

      https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/civil-service-staff-numbers

      Are you up in arms about these 414,390 “unelected bureaucrats” or did you just vote leave because you believed all the anti-EU propaganda that has been spewed out over the years?

    153. Doug says:

      GERS figures give conclusive proof that the union with England is detrimental to Scotland’s economy.

    154. Jack Murphy says:

      Off Topic. THE POLITICS OF PROTEST

      This week’s Alex Salmond Show where he interviews at

      4:40 an organiser of the Aye Aberdeen March

      8:00 Manny Singh,the Scottish Independence campaigner

      8:50 Wendy MacDonald,the Scottish Independence campaigner

      11:40 Kevin Gibner of Independence Live

      14:26 Peter Tatchell the Human Rights campaigner

      Full programme is introduced by Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh

      https://tinyurl.com/y2krrhmz

    155. galamcennalath says:

      Very much on topic ….

      ” Huge swaths of the British press are given over to Brexiteers’ fantasies. The sorry truth doesn’t get a look in. …. For the next few weeks, a pantomime beckons, with Tory papers breathlessly claiming that Johnson’s British Bulldog resolve compared to May’s timidity has the EU on the back foot, or preparing to surrender, or about to offer sweeping new concessions. It’s all noise. “

      http://archive.is/5oi17

      So, why won’t the press expose the lies and give some light to the truth? Vested interests? All basically instruments of the same dark forces which drive Brexit?

      The contrast between foreign media, especially Irish, and the fantasy stories of the UK press couldn’t be greater.

    156. Doug says:

      The desperation of British nationalist newspapers [!] as Johnson and his British nationalist cronies grasp at sisyphean straws.

    157. findlay farquaharson says:

      wonder if she will call for lying journalists to be called out also?

    158. Hamish100 says:

      Clegg joining the courier? Jumping ship?

    159. Dan says:

      @Hamish100

      Aye, looks so, though I only use re-cycled Couriers to light the stove.

      https://twitter.com/allmedianews/status/1164851051041894402

      One wonders how all those “local democracy reporters” are getting on.

      https://web.archive.org/web/20190512150222/https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2017/local-democracy-reporters

    160. cirsium says:

      @galamcennalath, 11.13

      “it’s to prepare the ground for an attack on the Scottish Government.”

      Is it not part of a continuing attack on the Scottish Government? Of the triumvirate of staff around the FM, Leslie Evans is a senior UK civil servant (with all that that entails) and she was active in putting Judith Mackinnon in place. Where did Elizabeth Lloyd, the FM’s Chief of Staff, come from? The reason I ask is that one of the advisers to the SNP MPs at Westminster, Neal R Stewart, is linked to the Integrity Initiative, the military intelligence cut-out which is funded by the UK Foreign Office among others. Who approved his employment?

      I have other queries. How did a qualified solicitor come to approve an unlawful and unfair process? How did the SNP get sidetracked into identity politics? Infiltration? Manipulation?

      Chris Hedges, the investigative journalist, has a programme on RT and his interview with Mohamed Elmaazi provides good background information on the British government psyops outfit which is Integrity Initiative

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=80&v=Z_K-j6a9ETI

    161. sassenach says:

      O/T

      Reading our local paper (Dumfries Courier), which is normally the Mundell’s own personal advertiser, and find that four of six letters to the editor are pro-Indy. (the other two being non-political).

      I cannot remember this happening in all the years I’ve lived here, and I take it as a sign that attitudes in SW Scotland are changing, hopefully. There was, also, no photo-ops of either Fluffy or his son – this itself is somewhat unknown in this rag!

      My mood has been massively lifted, I can walk tall amongst my fellows.
      Watch out, Union Jackal, we are coming for your seat.

    162. cirsium says:

      O/T. This is a very interesting development. I hope it succeeds. If whisky can be exported this way, why not other goods?

      https://gcaptain.com/proposed-ferry-could-save-scottish-whiskey-exports-post-brexit/

    163. Thepnr says:

      Good article by Ian Dunt covering the reporting by the Britnat press of Johnson’s meeting with Merkel and Macron.

      Week in Review: The UK goes full Basil Fawlty

      http://archive.fo/Wvs1J

    164. manandboy says:

      http://archive.is/qFlWy

      Scottish Secretary, Alister Jack, on his identity, which is reliant on sport, using ‘Union-speak’.

      “I am a fiercely proud Scot. I’m unashamedly patriotic and passionate about my country. No one cheers louder for Scotland; whether it’s Six Nations rugby, World Cup football or Commonwealth Games athletics, I’m right behind our sportsmen and women — but I’m just as much a fan of Team GB in the Olympics and my support for the British Lions is no less enthusiastic than it is for Scotland. I don’t see any contradictions there and nor do most Scots. I’m proud to be Scottish and British. I’m proud to be a Doonhamer, for that matter. I don’t think it is terribly complicated and I certainly don’t lose much sleep about my identity. That is simply who I am.”

      He forgot to say, ‘however, given a choice between all other aspects of England, and Scotland, the Scots can go f*** themselves.’

    165. Doug says:

      News just in:

      Liar and charlatan Boris Johnson says hot buttered toast will improve NHS patient morale.

      Only if you wear a butcher’s apron bib, presumably.

    166. Thepnr says:

      Check the state of this snivelling, cringing and boak inducing piece from the chief Tory groveller in Scotland, Stephen Daisley.

      Forget Greenland, Donald Trump should buy Scotland

      “Scotland, not Greenland, is where Trump should redirect his interest. If it’s a few more golf resorts he’s keen on, we can provide the countryside. If he needs space for a military base or two the Highlands offer all the scenic seclusion you could ask for. If it’s another hiding spot for the aliens now that the millennials have discovered Area 51, he could do a lot worse than Glasgow’s East End. (No one would notice little green men staggering around speaking an unintelligible language there.)”

      http://archive.fo/qVXZX

      I can’t see his insult to those of Glasgow’s East End going down very well. Still abusiveness comes with the territory and is now compulsory in order to work as a Britnat journalist.

    167. defo says:

      Does it say if he means it’s to be taken orally Doug?

    168. robertknight says:

      Manandboy @ 6:22

      I think the abbreviated version was all we needed…

      “I am a fiercely proud Scot – but…”

      ‘Nuff said!

    169. sassenach says:

      Yes, Porko Daisley, is a useless economist, so I suppose that just makes him perfect for the Tory party.

    170. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      manandboy @ 18:22,

      He also seems to have adopted the old Labourite exceptionalist trope of accusing the independence movement of being ultra-rightwing. (He is “proudly and intensely patriotic”, while we – in Broon-speak – are “extremely nationalistic”.)

      It was bad enough coming from NorthBritNat hypocrites, but it’s jusy too much coming from an ultra-privileged willing cog in a rectionary unelected Tory regime, undoubtedly the most rightwing in post-war UK history.

    171. galamcennalath says:

      manandboy says:

      Alister Jack …”I’m proud to be Scottish and British.”

      Which is impossible. If you think you can be Scottish and British then you are saying it’s OK for Scotland to be treated as a region of a ‘Britain’ which is in practice a Greater England.

      I’m proud to be Scottish and European, but that is totally different. Danes, Swedes, Finns etc are proud of their own wee countries and see them as equal to all others. I see Scotland like that. Most Scots probably do.

      Jack and his kind are way off at a tangent by seeing their country, Scotland, as a subservient region whose will can be overruled by its bigger neighbour. Their Scotland is a pathetic cap-docking tartan clad entity. How can anyone with self respect be proud of that?

    172. Don`t know much about cricket,

      is England 67 all out against Australia a good or bad score,

      is 67 a good score for a test innings,

      11 batsmen would be average 6 runs each is that good.

    173. Ealasaid says:

      New website For Indycar Ross after interference.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHwTBVhEM7w

    174. Gfaetheblock says:

      Scott at 8.52

      Watch out, you sound like you have no interest in cricket except if one team is doing poorly. This makes you come across as somewhat anti-English.

      This is what Nicola was warning folk off this week.

    175. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Scot Finlayson says:
      23 August, 2019 at 8:52 pm

      Don`t know much about cricket,

      is England 67 all out against Australia a good or bad score,

      is 67 a good score for a test innings,

      11 batsmen would be average 6 runs each is that good.

      I think you could say humiliation at the highest level. lol

    176. Ealasaid says:

      New website For Indycar Ross after interference.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHwTBVhEM7w

    177. Welsh Sion says:

      Doug @ 7.13 pm:

      News just in:

      Liar and charlatan Boris Johnson says hot buttered toast will improve NHS patient morale.

      Only if you wear a butcher’s apron bib, presumably.

      _______

      Or if you scoff the wife’s ration whilst she’s in labour. (See Fintan O’Toole’s comments in his book ‘Heroic Failure’).

      Johnsonian logic: Lack of toast = NHS must be privatised.

    178. Ahundredthidiot says:

      enough of this crap about Scots being anti English……it’s the other way around.

      To believe otherwise means youre a brainwashed idiot.

    179. Gfaetheblock says:

      Ahundredthidiot @9.09

      You do realise that your comment is anti-English? Fucking comedy gold, hats off to you.

      To paraphrase, ‘ I’m not a bigot, the others are bigots, stupid’

    180. @Gfaetheblock

      There was/is a quote which i read years ago,

      `there is some ammusement in seeing a good friend fall of a roof`

      when friends humiliate themselves it would be impolite not to laugh at them as they would laugh at your humiliation,

      not taking the piss at 67 all out would show i didn`t care about our jovial English neighbours.

    181. Ian Brotherhood says:

      It’s not ‘the English’ people who were humilated today, it was the English national cricket squad, and they themselves would have finished that innings expecting widespread mockery from their own fans let alone Australians and abody else.

      I’m not an aficionado of the game, but what would the equivalent be if it had been a football match? 9-0? (Perhaps even into double figures?)

      Just a few weeks ago ALL UK citizens had to endure Piers Morgan and his long-suffering sidekick crowing about England being World Champions, so if today is good for nothing else it’ll put his gas at a peep for a while.

      Being respectful of other peoples/nations does not extend to supporting their teams. It’s okay to have an ‘auld enemy’ in sport, and to take the side of whoever is opposing them. No amount of earnest phone-ins, appeals from SNP leadership, or finger-wagging from fellow Wingers will ever persuade me to support England and/or ‘UK’/’GB’ at anything.

      If that makes me a ‘bigot’, fair enough. It seems to be a badge very few of us can avoid having slapped on us these days, for all sorts of reasons.

      🙁

    182. Gfaetheblock says:

      Scott, so you do know about cricket then? I though the collapse today was hilarious, especially as I have Australia to win at 13/8, and as a neutral cricket fan, but there was nothing in your post that suggested you understand the sport or see England as a a good neighbour or friend. It just came across as anti-English

      Ian – sporting teams are often see as proxy for nations, or can seen to be. Many a racist trope are based around this. Piers Morgan is a cunt, the English World Cup win was brilliant cricket.

    183. cynicalHighlander says:

      Concur Ian Brotherhood.

    184. Macart says:

      @Thepnr

      Daisley is trolling, playing to an audience and looking for a reaction. Much like the rest of his profession in the mainstream these days apparently.

      People want to know why more and more trust their media less and less? Then look no further for a prime example.

      Insulting and pigeonholing the public? Putting entire demographics, a population, in harms way? Not a good look.

    185. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Gfaetheblock @ 20:59,

      We can see the Great Fiery Brexitmonster on the horizon now, portending all sorts of unpleasantness to come, yet the only contribution you find a need to make to the debate here, resident Jo Swansong fanboy, is to passive-aggressively quibble about a cricket score?

      Do please try to up your game (and I don’t mean cricket).

    186. mike cassidy says:

      Cirsium 4.42

      Elizabeth Lloyd

      She started off at Gosforth High School in Newcastle

      https://www.itv.com/news/border/2015-06-09/stugeons-women-power-v-camerons-man-power/

      then Edinburgh Uni etc

      https://uk.linkedin.com/in/lizlloyd

      All her working life has been in the SNP.

    187. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Gfaetheblock –

      I hear ye, aye, but I should perhaps elaborate a wee bit on why this is a touchy subject for me.

      My late old man (we were ‘estranged’, hadn’t met for almost a decade) was born in Glasgow but he was sent away to a Jesuit boarding school when he was very young, and didn’t leave until he was, I suppose, 16 or so. He didn’t speak about it much, and I never asked much. The school was in Cheshire, not far from Manchester. As a boy he supported Busby’s Babes over Celtic.

      He was a very laid-back guy and I’ve seldom heard anyone say a bad word about him. But this subject i.e. whether or not we as ‘Scots’ should support England was one of the very few things I ever saw him get exercised about and he once called me a ‘bigot’ when I remarked, quite casually, that I hoped England got properly stuffed in whatever match was imminent. (Not sure precisely when this was but I’m guessing it was probably the 1990 World Cup when Gazza was playing.) He really was angry, very briefly, but, as usual for the old man, changed the subject and normal pleasantries were resumed.

      That’s perhaps why I’m a bit touchy on this subject meself now. My Dad was ‘Scottish’ aye, by birth, residence, whichever ‘normal’ way you want to measure it. But emotionally? Psychologically? He was ‘English’. He was formed there, as a child. When his mother died unexpectedly? he was there when he got the news.

      To me, now, it seems that he was genuinely ‘English’ in that sense which pervades so much TV drama/comedy – ‘Last Of The Summer Wine’ was one of his favourite shows. (The landscape probably looked very familiar but he told me it was the sentiment of the show’s title which he really liked.) If he thought he was alone in the house he would wander about singing ‘Jerusalem’. (I’m not making this up.) He was a good actor, had some decent parts in school productions, adored Olivier.

      So, aye, it’s a complicated business, and perhaps I need to do a wee bit of self-reflection here.

      In any event, I should ‘fess up and admit that I actually do quite like cricket but I wouldn’t pay to go and see it because I know I would just get pished too fast and miss most of it.

      😉

    188. Clapper57 says:

      I typed in Google search – ‘ England beat at cricket’ then pressed Enter.

      Then Google message came up :

      ‘ Did you mean ENGLAND BEST AT CRICKET ‘

      To which I then typed on search bar :

      ‘No I did NOT f***king mean England best at cricket’ then pressed enter.

      Then message came up :

      ‘Alright alright calm down ya mad bitch we were only making a suggestion so genius what WAS your actual fecken question..huh ?

      Needless to say I was black affronted at such a brusque Yoon like retort…so peeps word of warning …beware what you ask Google especially in relation to ‘England’ and Cricket’ or they may just throw a Googly at you….the absolute shower…

      I’m in the cream puff now….So I ignored them…I think it must be a Brexiteer Unionist search engine on tonight at Google …as opposed to a Remainer Indy Google search engine…there I’ve had my say…spilled my guts…feel 76 and half percent better now got this encounter off my chest…

      ( Certain parts of this post ARE true other parts have had truth part stretched a tad….you decide…that is if you have actually wasted your time reading it….Hee Hee )

    189. Gfaetheblock says:

      Ian, nice comment. Wiltshire grandparents inform my sense of self and identity.

      Been to one proper cricket game, T20 at the oval when down with work, just the right duration for an evening scoop!

    190. Clapper57 says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood @ 10.34pm

      Hi Ian , just read your post…pretty powerful and you have elaborated very eloquently….it was very interesting and indeed a thought provoking story.

      All the best

    191. @Gfaetheblock,

      i concede,i know that 67 is one of the most humiliating innings in England`s 280 year cricket history ever,

      as for their world cup win,

      they won by default through the umpire wrongly giving them an extra run when the NZ fielder hit the Eng bat before he had crossed,(5 runs not 6)

      without this extra run NZ would/should have won.

    192. dakk says:

      You know it’s a slow thread when wingers are arguing about cricket.ffs

      Mon Stuart.

      Write sumhin,anyhin!

    193. Essexexile says:

      I quite like the old cricket. Been drawn into it by English friends brought up with it. Btw, for anybody not sure, 67 is a decent score if it’s made by one player. For the whole team to achieve 67 is beyond pish. But, all teams in sport have their ups and downs. A decade ago England were top of the pile. Now they’re a bit rubbish (despite somehow being world champions).
      To most people brought up without cricket (me included for a time) it’s a very strange sport. But, as an English friend said to me ‘The Scottish national sport is chucking a rock down an ice rink and shouting at it’
      So, fair enough.

    194. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Essexexile –

      ‘Beyond pish’

      That’s a keeper.

      😉

    195. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Clapper57 –

      Thank you very kindly!

      I have plunged meself into a miasma of nostalgia and regret, but hey-ho, so it fuckin goes.

      😉

    196. dakk says:

      Cricket it is then.

    197. Cactus says:

      How ye doin’ Wingers…

      Jist saunterin’ mah way back HOME tae the Southside like

      Ah just did ah random ‘pinky’ wae another

      We good

    198. defo says:

      I can’t get enough of R4s daily coverage of the English cricket team on the Toaday show.

      Actually, it makes my blood boil.
      Unless, of course, they’re getting humped.

      Bigot? If that’s the definition, then i’m unrepentantly guilty.

    199. call me dave says:

      Indy2 plan B not to be debated at the conference says The National

      Tomorrows front page. Saturday!

    200. starlaw says:

      Plan A should not be debated either, pass no free info. to your enemy.

    201. Cubby says:

      What has this thread turned into. I can imagine that this must be what the back page of the Telegraph must be like. Its just not cricket lads to do this to a Wings thread.

    202. Breeks says:


      Dr Jim says:
      23 August, 2019 at 2:36 pm

      Like folk moaning about the deportation of people, Westminster has all the power over that to do what they want, the Scottish government can only plead people’s cases for them…

      No it doesn’t Dr Jim. You are absolutely wrong. We have a Westminster Government which acts like it has all the power, a Scottish Government which also acts like Westminster has all the power, and then we have the truth, that the people of Scotland are Constitutionally Sovereign, and their will cannot be overruled by either Westminster or Holyrood.

      The prevailing “government” of Scotland is the product of accepted convention, definitely NOT Constitutional probity, and a challenge to this contrived regime is long overdue, and desperately needed afresh, given the imminent catastrophe of Brexit.

      The only thing the Scottish Government should be pleading for is International Recognition of Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty and the Unconstitutional Union of the United Kingdom currently attempting to subvert the will of the Scottish people.

      It is utterly depressing to see Scotland continually argue from a position of “adopted” weakness and dressing it up as guile and cunning strategy. We are Constitutionally indefatigable. We should find some backbone and act like it.

      Scotland should be legally challenging Westminster to reconcile how it intends to overrule the Constitutionally Sovereign majority in Scotland which rejected Brexit. It can’t. The principle which prevents it is more obdurate than the Irish Backstop.

      It is immaterial whether there is a Scottish majority for Independence or not, because for or against, both options constitute a sovereign people exercising it’s sovereign will. For Westminster to overrule that Sovereignty is altogether different. It’s a foreign imposition from the outside. It is not Sovereign. It is not exercising sovereignty but colonial subjugation and should be defeated on that basis.

      Give me one good reason why we shouldn’t. Instead, we turn our backs on our Constitutionally Sovereign and ancient Nation, and dance on eggshells trying to entice a fragile majority from the ephemeral will of a fickle and dubious democracy, which will not alter a damned thing nor save us from the Abyss of Brexit.

      It’s not our Sovereignty that is stolen by Westminster, it’s the courage and self belief to act upon our sovereignty they have stolen. We have become the pathetic abused animal; the miserable institutionalised cur conditioned to shun its own freedom.

    203. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      call me dave at 1.49
      Anybody who wants to debate Plan B is doing the unionists work for them and undermining Plan A.

    204. Jack Murphy says:

      A 2 minute cheer-up from December last year.

      VIDEO with music————— AT HOME IN SCOTLAND……………….

      ‘Enjoy Yourself’

      WITH

      Tom Ullathorne

      Sara,a New Scot from Malawi

      and

      Muna,a New Scot from Ethiopia

      Phantom Power Films:
      https://tinyurl.com/y9ss5ogj

      Welcome and enjoy. [smiley]

    205. Joe says:

      @galamcennalath 1:28PM

      Project mockingbird was a CIA operation to get agents/assets planted as journalists in other countries. They then did it domestically. Still are doing it. Former MI5 people have alluded to similar activities by the British

    206. Robert Louis says:

      Just had a chance to catch up with this video in the article. I soooo agree times a googolplex.

      This is why we and other countries are in the mess we are in, so-called ‘journalists just not bothering to point out what are in fact whole, complete, bare faced lies. This is why serial and compulsive liars like Trump and Johnson, get away with it.

      Michael Gove, is another one, as is Ruth Davidson. Just lie after lie after lie. It never stops.

      Many years ago, when Robin Day was in his prime, he had a pretty ferocious reputation, and indeed was the person, politicians did not want to be interviewed by. He was super intelligent, and sharp, sharp, sharp as a tack. In later years he wasn’t quite like that. Similarly, Paxman took a similar attitude, especially when younger.

      We need young super intelligent ferocious terriers and Rottweilers interviewing these compulsive serial liars, not the Himbo’s, Bimbo’s and poorly informed/educated ‘anchors’ we have now (talking about you SKY ‘news’ – honourable exception for Beth Rigby) we get nowadays.

      Even the guys at Channel4 news are way too deferential, except for one man, Michael crick (who sadly is no longer with CH4 news).

      Where is our young, ferocious, Robin Day of modern times?

    207. Robert Louis says:

      Seein as folk were talking cricket above, personally speaking, I’d rather stick a hot poker up my back passage than watch it. Truly the very dullest ‘sport’ known to mankind. And I’m being kind. I just wish they’d get their own pitches, instead of hogging most of the meadows in Edinburgh. The only people in Scotland who play it, are posh boys from posh schools, and folk with cultural origins/family in India/pakistan and asia. Generally though, it is a very English thing.

    208. Kenneth McDougall says:

      I trust you Rev with Scottish Sovereignty… You do a great job. Really appreciated. (K in Paisley)



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