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Underhand service

Posted on March 01, 2015 by

The categorical support of Andy Murray for Scottish independence, though only finally unambiguously revealed in today’s Sunday Times (the tennis star’s day-of-poll tweet backing Yes could by a strict semantic interpretation have been said to be somewhat equivocal), isn’t much of a surprise.


So it’s perhaps worth reminding ourselves what the media told us.


“True Brit tennis ace Andy Murray today opposed Scottish independence without actually saying “Vote No”.


“He refused to nail his colours to the mast but despite saying he was proud of his Scots roots, he also hinted heavily he was in favour of retaining the Union.”

Keep it in mind when you read the Record or the Mirror, folks. It’s a level of spin the Grand Slam champion himself could perhaps pick up a few tips from.

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  1. 01 03 15 12:35

    Underhand service | Politics Scotland |

  2. 01 03 15 12:41

    Underhand service - Speymouth

169 to “Underhand service”

  1. Brian Powell says:

    Ah, and there was Jackie Bird pecking away at the eyes of truth on BBC, saying he supported the Union!

  2. Robert Louis says:

    I think Andy nails it, when he asserts (in the Sunday Times) that supporting Scottish independence does not mean you hate the people of England. He is right.

    I for instance support the restoration of Scottish independence, but also have English relatives (some of them live up here, and voted YES). I do not ‘hate the English’, rather I hate the fact my country is run by an undemocratic Parliament, Westminster, in another country, called England. It’s that simple.

  3. Arabs for Independence says:

    This just adds to the very high opinion I already have of Andy Murray. Good lad Andy

  4. jules says:

    Independence is simply being normal. Not about being anti- anyone else. It seems so obvious to many of us, including Andy Murray, but seems so hard to grasp for others.

  5. blackhack says:

    You don’t honestly expect the daily record or the mirror to actually tell the truth now do you ???

    If they did, that would probably be front page news.

  6. Capella says:

    Good for Andy. Actually, if you had listened to Judy Murray’s re-referendum Desert Island Discs you could have guessed that the whole family is very much “Scottish”.

    Glad the press has sorted that out late in the day. It’s easier to tell the truth when you think it doesn’t matter any more.

  7. arthur thomson says:

    I often thought of the difficulty that Andy would have in this situation. I was a bit saddened that he didn’t come out clearly for Yes because I think that would have been best for him. I would imagine that he regrets not being more forthright. But I accept that he is with us and for his sake I am glad – though it’s a big cross to carry!

  8. JLT says:

    There is no doubt about it; the media are now so determined to destroy the thought of Scottish Independence, that they will now openly manipulate ‘words’, to create a lie, then issued to deceive, and thus be believed.

    Now, this is where the real conundrum lies. For the people in the other parts of the UK, they may buy the lie, since they haven’t been through the emotional rollercoaster of a Referendum, but that lie won’t be accepted in Scotland. Very few will buy it. Everyone remembers Andy coming out just days before the Referendum where he believed that it was now our time.

    I do believe the media are trying to hit the Scottish public with lie after lie in the vain hope that the people will eventually believe the British State media again. The problem is, the lies are coming out so fast, with no coherent link to other lies, that people are smelling a rat. The more lies they spin, the worse it seems to get for the Unionist parties within Scotland, as each new poll either shows a standstill in their ratings, or there is slippage towards oblivion being revealed within them.

  9. Lollysmum says:

    Ooh Murray Foote you told yet another big fat porkie.

    What did I say yesterday in my post addressing your actions this week? Oh yes, the Incorrect Daily Record has a long track record of lying to & disrespecting it’s readers so that it can push it’s own & labour’s agenda in Scotland.

    Well guess what, your mates in the MSM clearly can’t be trusted to keep your dirty little secrets anymore as evidenced here today.

    You & your ilk tried to destroy Andy’s reputation but apparently many people in Scotland seem to know Andy, the man,an honest Scot, far better than you do.

    After today’s revelation I call that Wings 4 Record 0

    Wonder what sort of numbers we’ll get up to by the time you shut up shop for good. Probably well into the thousands & I look forward to helping to publish every single one of them on Wings.

  10. Lenny Hartley says:

    15 love to the rev

  11. Murray McCallum says:

    Andy Murray’s point about countries controlling their own destiny is what seems to upset the British Nationalists.

    They live in a bygone era where they feel London ruled the world. They can’t seem to grasp the aspiration of independent countries working together with mutual respect.

    I just don’t get why Labour supporters can’t see through the whole UK mirage of supposed justice, equality and opportunity of improvement. Nothing much has changed in the UK despite the recent domination of a Labour government.

  12. Dcanmore says:

    Scotland’s Champion*

    (*not the Daily Record)

  13. Stoker says:

    @ arthur (11.49am).

    If i remember correctly Andy did come out very clearly in favour, before the referendum.

    Those articles above from the House of Rectums are dated 10 months prior to the referendum and as per usual are full of excrement, or as the diplomat would say, spin.

    Yes, i agree, he could have nailed his colours to the mast a lot sooner but he is most definitely one of us.

  14. gillie says:

    So who warned Andy Murray to keep his mouth shut?

  15. thedogphilosopher says:

    It sure is strangely ironic that Scotland has produced a great tennis player such as Andy, something that our ‘dominant political partner’ has been so desperate to do for so long as a matter of national prestige.

    It must be hard to swallow when they see St Andrew flags waving instead of Union Jacks (Wee Eck knew). Harder when he declares himself pro-Indy. Thus he must be absorbed into the TeamGB fold so that ‘life’ can be normalised.

  16. Dan Huil says:

    Well said, Andy Murray. Is there any chance, I wonder, of Andy making a donation to one of the many worthy pro-independence causes? Maybe Andy has already donated anonymously.

  17. ronnie anderson says:

    Keep it in mind when you read the Record or the Mirror, folks. It’s a level of spin the Grand Slam champion himself could perhaps pick up a few tips from.

    Also applies to other sports Table Tennis/Cricket ect.

    We dont to be viewed as being Bias Rev.

  18. Kenny says:

    The Sunday Times seems to hate both SCOTTISH democracy and the ENGLISH language. Anyone would think it was owned by a foreigner to these isles!!

    “My feeling is that Scotland is ITS own country.”

  19. sinky says:

    BBC idea of political balance in Scotland with Labour and Tory journalists free reign to attack SNP on Politics Show

  20. Stoker says:

    gillie says:
    “So who warned Andy Murray to keep his mouth shut?”

    His mum, i think, but don’t quote me on that, i’m not 100% sure.

  21. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Lollysmum After today’s revelation I call that Wings 4 ( nay spin ) Record 0 ( peerie’s ).

    Ah hope you dont mind my corrections xx.

  22. Mealer says:

    Most 27 year olds support independence.In Scotland and most other countries.As one would expect.

  23. donald anderson says:

    Yet they will still try to wrap him amd every other winning sports personality in a Butcher’s Apron.

  24. Mealer says:

    The Daily Redcoat will be apoplectic at this.All these furriners like Jock o’ Vitch and Nadal have been filling his head with silly ideas.

  25. JLT says:

    Dan Huil

    I can’t see it. Most sportsmen shy away from any political controversy’s …and the possible breakup of the Union is one that invokes fear, anger and even bitterness, which make no bones about it, we Wingers all know about! How much stick have each of us had to endure over the last 3 years from the Unionists; whether friends or strangers, who scorned you for upholding the ideals of independence. The only difference between three years ago and now, is that possibly, we now have a slim majority who agree with our own views.

    I believe Andy will quietly support independence, but do so from afar. He knows full well what the British media are like, especially after his joke about ‘supporting anyone but England’ when it came to the World Cup back in 2006. The boy was demonised to such an extent, that he never talked about any form of nationalism again; even British …until the eve of the Referendum.

    Sensibly, he kept his opinions to himself, and then revealed, literally on the eve of the referendum of what he believed was right in his heart. And even then, there was the usual bile from comments within newspapers south of the border that condemned his views; even though he had a right to say them …way more so than the commenters in those papers!

  26. john king says:

    I find it absolutely ridiculous and frankly quite insulting that if your an independence supporter you by default hate the English,

    I love England and spend most of my holidays there but I cannot forget my country is being governed by the people English voters choose which to any right minded person is unacceptable,
    The empty argument people will not always get the government they choose can only be valid in a single country but the UK is not a single country,

    This year I will be visiting Norfolk and hopefully Dorset, and as always I will resist the temptation to scrawl anti
    English slogans on the walls. 🙂

  27. r baxter says:

    media culture is embellish add arms and legs or effing lie.

  28. ronnie anderson says:

    @ K1 Noted your Alex Salmond appeal, I,ll share ma Birthday treats wie him 28th Mar ( naw no the Malteasers )an mibbee,s before that ££s.

  29. Neil Mackenzie says:

    So, while Andy was lying awake, the MSM was consciously lying.

  30. Bill McLean says:

    Only further proof of the post-colonial British love of democracy! Lest we forget – “Hapus Dydd Gwyl Dewi” to our Welsh friends!

  31. Lollysmum says:

    r baxter
    I don’t think anyone here would argue with your summary. We’ve seen it too many times before 🙂

  32. Big Jock says:

    I think we were all a bit dismayed at why Murray wouldn’t speak up at the time. Now we know!

    I thought he never looked comfortable waiving that Union Jack at the Olympics. The English press were delighted when he had to stand under it. It was as if a rebel slave had been brought back under the command of glorious Blighty.

    What we have in Scotland, is a scurrilous MSM. They will use any divisive means possible to pit Scot against Scot. For that matter English against Scot.

    I wonder how many other people have been misquoted. They did the same when there was a debate,about having a British football team at the Olympics. I seem to remember certain Scottish footballers were in favour.This to me sounded like a set up with an agenda.

  33. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Kenny.

    its – belonging to it.

    it’s – contraction of it is.

    “It’s not its leg that is broken”, for example, meaning “It is not the leg belonging to it that is broken.”

  34. John H. says:

    He was given a hard time by some quarters in England anyway. I wonder how they’ll react to this. Will the BBC and others still insist on calling him British, or English?

  35. Dr Jim says:

    Makes you wonder about the threat or pressure he was under to keep his mouth shut
    What’s their problem “Scotsman says he likes his country” Shock, how very dare he
    I’m not going to start listing them but it seemed alright at the time for every Tom, Dick and Harry English Celebrity or sports person to Speak out to save the Union
    What it shows is how afraid they were of us then if they thought we, like the English would be stupid enough to follow what a personality would say (For or against)
    in the first place
    They have a serious brain freeze down there if they think the masses here are as dim as the masses there because it’s clearly not the case is it
    I definitely think every country has Numptys, but per head of the population we might be lucky enough to have less
    Maybe the bigger the population the more widespread the Numptyism
    Just realised “America” i’m right

    For the politically correct disclaimer from all of the above, i never said any of that and i will say different if you put pressure on me or if The Daily Record bullies me

  36. ronnie anderson says:

    If your Irish, come into the parlor

    If your English, scan your British passport

    If your Scottish come in come in its nice tae see you an here,s ma haun.

  37. Nana Smith says:


    Look out for provocative posters of the union flag coming to bridges and roads etc in Scotland. Banners carrying the message ‘Founded by the UK government’ to be unveiled by the muppet Danny Alexander.

    This clown and advisors believe this move will counter the rise of independence.

    I won’t bother putting up the link, I’m too angry and if my reaction is anything to go by so will a lot of other Scots.

  38. Craig vint says:

    Robert Louis nails it. This island could easily work together and probably better if the independent countries controlled their own destinies and collaborated if/ when there was a need to on an issue by issue basis. Funnily enough, this is what the SNP is proposing with the Labour Party in the “other” parliament much to the disgust of the entrenched establishment. Andy Murray is a hell of a good tennis player, let’s leave him to that. The way he was used by the BT campaign was abhorrent.

  39. indigo says:

    gillie says:
    “So who warned Andy Murray to keep his mouth shut?”

    Almost certainly his sponsors, pr people and business advisors – the media drama over his comments about the world cup would still be fresh enough that folk with a vested interest in his image and reputation would have been very nervous of an indyref yes statement

  40. Capella says:

    @ Nana
    Sounds like a provocation to me. Unless these signs are to be placed over all bridges and roads throughout the UK? No doubt cameras trained on them to catch the unwary.

  41. Ken500 says:

    Andy’s playing in Glasgow at the week-end. The Davis Cup. Some fortunate people have tickets to Go. More revenues to Glasgow, now venue City.

    Andy is getting married in Dunblane, in his own Hotel. The refurbished Hotel has brought investment in the local economy. Dunblane, Scotland his home town, always gets a mention as he tours the world. A true local Hero.

  42. Bittie Glakit says:

    I don’t like confrontation so I find it’s easier to say that we have three layers of government: Brussels, Westminster and Hollyrood, so really we can do without the middle man. I thought it was brave of Andy to say he was in favour of independence, knowing what our press is like.

  43. Bittie Glakit says:

    Mealer says:
    27 February, 2015 at 2:12 pm
    Bittie Glakit,
    Good work! I’d like to commission a piece,if you have the time and inclination.I’m thinking along the lines of Jim Murphy dressed as a Redcoat bayoneting the wounded cos Davidsons to lazy to do it himself. Post it on here and I’ll make a further donation to Wings.

    Hi Mealer, I had a go at it, so here y’are.

  44. Patrick Roden says:

    There’s something quite sinister about the Redcoats headline, and it shows just how vile and bullying that rag has become.

    What I mean is, if they print a headline saying that Andy isn’t a Yes supporter, it gives comfort to the Unionists, who will warmly support a good colonial Brit.

    This then makes it far more shocking, if Andy comes out and declares for Yes, hence the more anger and bile that is directed at him.

    So now that we know that Andy never declared for No, we know that the Record made these headlines up.

    So in a nutshell, the Record were simply bullying Andy Murray, by painting him into a corner that would be very difficult for him to get out.

    It says a lot for Andy, that he was brave enough, to declare for a Yes vote.

    It says a lot about the disgusting Daily Record, that they were willing to pull this stunt on the Murray Family.

    Daily Record – Scotland’s Champion?


    Daily Redcoat – The English Elites Champion?

    I know what one, I think applies.

  45. The behind the scenes Establishment/ Unionist machinations during the referendum the veiled threats and the bullying make a mockery of the word Democracy.

    Even someone with the world stature of Andy was leant on to keep his mouth shut.

    You wonder that some of our other sports stars would have liked to support more vocally a free Scotland but were blackmailed that they would be blacklisted by the media and the BBC.

    It sounds like Andy is regretting not showing his pro independence feelings earlier in the campaign,but he would have been slaughtered by our corrupt Unionist media ,at least in the end he stood up against the bullies like a true Scotsman unlike so many others.

  46. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    @Capella @Nana

    Can’t say I’m surprised in the least that it’s the incompetent yellow tory Danny Alexander behind something like that since it is doomed to not only fail but backfire.

    You simply cannot impose love or affection for the union throughout scotland with a few token gestures and flags. It’s jist no gonnae work. Wee Danny also disny seem tae realise that the union flag just means orange walks in huge swathes of the west coast and elsewhere.

    If they seriously want to ‘rehabilitate’ the union jack then they would have to start wae their pals in the orange lodges and I can tell them right now, they’re on to a loser there. That lot will never ‘play nice’ for them.

  47. Capella says:

    Happy St David’s Day Everybody (video by Millie aged 4).

    Scot Goes Pop says that this is a month of destiny because at the end of it, all the Labour politicians down tools as Parliament is dissolved. Happy day!

  48. Capella says:

    @ Bittie Glakit

  49. Lesley-Anne says:

    I have to admit that despite Andy not coming out earlier for independence I had a deep feeling that he would actually support it. 😉

    I am with others on here questioning who told him to keep stumpf about supporting independence. In my self centred out look on life sort of way I’d like to see him name and shame those who told him to stay quiet.

    If it was his sponsors then they should realise that they sponsor him to play tennis they do NOT sponsor him to state what his political views on independence are. Therefore he is entitled to say what he thinks about independence as he wants and when he wants. His *ahem* advisors on this matter should wind their necks in! 😛

  50. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana go on, go on, go on, put up the link weil awe be brave.

  51. heedtracker says:

    I thought he showed guts just with that one tweet Sept 18. He’s been sensible staying out of it, if only to stop a full on teamGB media attack that could make playing Wimbledon difficult if not impossible

    Its all just one more example of how corrupt the BBC and the UKOK press really are though, utterly ruthless and all to stop Scottish democracy. When they get really desperate they shriek bigot at you for wanting Scotland to run Scotland and that just cant happen on court.

    Look at how celebs like JK Rowling have been rewarded by the BBC for their personal and terrifying Vote NO or else silly sweaties campaign. Rowling pays a million quid to BetterTogether but gets it all back and much more as BBC make godawful tv drama out of your piss poor book. Rowling’s business savvy or plain old British, noes tapping nepotism?

    All teamGB celebs that said vote NO will have been rewarded just like this. Future Lord Dan Snow’s heading for tory boy MP greatness, as well as inheriting one the world’s biggest cash mountains and that’s just in the last week.

    The main thing is, Scottish voters are certainly not blind to what’s going on around them, still want devo-max and know full well THE VOW is a giant con trick.

  52. Elizabeth says:

    Re nana’s post at 12:45 I’d imagine it’s an off-shoot of this

  53. One_Scot says:

    “He also hinted ‘heavily‘ he was in favour of retaining the union.”

    And therein in lies the Daily Records problem, they have once again proven thay are just a Labour unionist mouth piece, full of lies and misleading bollocks.

  54. Effijy says:

    I agree that the most important fact that we need to uncover is who it was that WARNED Andy Murray not to reveal his support for Independence, and not rebuke the media claims to the contrary?

    Is it the same people who warned Dr John Robertson and the University of West of Scotland Principles to withdraw their conclusive proof of excessive UK media bias.

    Democracy is under a very real and present danger with elitists and politicians threatening free speech on a level playing field

    Andy’s nationality is easy to deduce!

    If he wins Olympic Gold-he is British,
    If he wins a Grand Slam Event-he is British,
    If he wins Wimbledon- he is British,
    He gets knocked out by a lower ranked player- he is Scottish,
    He get’s injured- he is Scottish!

    As many of you will know, there is a raised grassy area within Wimbledon where fans can watch the big matches en masse.

    The BBC, and UK OK Media, have named this area Henman Hill after
    the most successful English player in a generation, who won none of the above? No never came near to winning any of the above!

    This name chosen in favour over Murray Mountain, where fans were gathered to actually support Andy Murray. The first man from these islands to win this world premier event in 75 years?

    This sums it up for me. An English tennis nobody gets the accolade over the Scottish Superstar that the record books show to be the best player that we ever had, and by a country mile.

    You can stick you land of Dope & Tory up your retractable roof!

  55. Clootie says:

    I still cannot figure this assumption that support for Independence equals anti English. With almost 200 nations around the World how many measure themselves on the basis of another nation?

    If you are French are you anti- German. Spain is detested by Portugal. The Italians loath the Swiss.

    What a stupid spin the media make. I want Independence in order that a fairer society Is possible. If other nations such as England and America wish to pursue greed and selfish models that is their choice.

    Our nation may form stronger links with Scandanavia and England may continue to worship the American Neoliberal dogma.

    If I favour free education, the removal of nuclear weapons, free prescriptions etc AND my view is shared by my fellow Scots, WHY should another nation impose their views simply on the basis of population size ratio.

    We will never improve the lives of those in greatest need if we permit simple arithmetic to dominate the debate.

    In the last few months we have gone from 85 people having a greater combined wealth than the poorest 50 percent of the Earths population to 65 people having that wealth.

    Think about that growing imbalance.

    The attempt to make this about two nations is an insult to our intelligence.

  56. Lollysmum says:

    O/T a bit
    This is as fine an example of underhanded service we are ever likely to see from our ‘caring, sharing’ UK govt.

    It would seem that Westminster is determined to remind us who is in charge & that they don’t learn from their mistakes.

    This will increase SNP membership-guaranteed 🙂

  57. Nana smith says:

    Here you go Ronnie, don’t blame me if you turn purple with rage!

    My hubby called my colouring puce… luckily he was some distance away at the time or his eyes might be puce by teatime.

  58. Lollysmum says:

    I go away for 30mins to look at Twitter & I come back to this. You beat me to that article on signs for bridges aaaarrrrrgggggghhhhh!

  59. Nana Smith says:


    Ah no Elizabeth, Cameron’s poster is just plain daft.

    The ones coming to a bridge or road near you may make you drive off the road now that would be road rage for sure.

  60. Stoker says:


    I’ve no idea what you’re referring to but if i understand it correctly from your post, no wonder your fuming.

    BUT, he, nor his beloved London establishment, have any control over that sort of thing, at least i don’t think they do.

    That would be down to our devolved parliament, who would, i imagine, say that was down to each individual ruling local council to decide what extra “adornments” are added to bridges etc.

    Most would get vandalised anyway, IMO.

    He can feck right off and stop wasting tax-payers money.

    The DWP are going to be needing that money to pay out on the sudden rise of unemployed after the 7th May.

    So don’t go wasting your bru money, Danny, yer gonny need it.

  61. Rob James says:

    @ Nana Smith 12:45

    Since there seems to be so little UK infrastructure spending proposed for Scotland,there shouldn’t be too many around.

    I presume Danny Alexander won’t mind then if we put the saltire on the new Forth crossing, since it is totally funded by the Scottish government.

  62. Effijy says:

    Wait a minute here!

    Is there no chance of a single word of truth from the media?

    “You can read between the lines that Andy is a No Voter! ?
    Andy serves between the lines and We Scots don’t need to look between anything to see the UK media as corrupt biased vermin.

    How does big Fanny Alexander, not to be confused with wee Rat Face Alexander, get away with proclaiming “Paid for by the British Tax payer”?

    Let me explain- Scots pay in £1,700.00 more per person into the UK economy, and then we get a £1,200.00 concession back.

    This means that we pay for Everything that we get, all by ourselves, and then we have to give Westminster £500.00 each after all of our bills are paid in full.

    Why put a man who can’t count into the Treasury?
    Guess it helps the Blue Tories to have a lap dog/scapegoat to kick?

  63. george says:

    mckenna on justice for the miners

    a lot of truth here; but i can’t help but think that mckenna writes well and often about the results, consequences and grief associated with assorted glorious defeats of the past.

    might be worth thinking about, that. there seem to be a few different conversations going on at once in this article.

  64. call me dave says:

    Love that bit that says…

    Draws similarities with the flag stamped prominently on items sent out as aid to foreign parts.

    It is the slow but inexorable strangling of Scotland since the referendum.

    Electricity is ours but you can have some off it or else!

    Grangemouth and carbon capture delayed and longannet closed
    Reduced funding renewables and other things

    We better win in the GE and get another referendum PDQ or they will succeed. This latest wheeze should add a few votes to the separatists cause. 🙂

  65. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    This goes way before Andy Murray. Chris Hoy was asked similar questions and replied honestly and accurately that if Scotland was an independent country he would be representing Scotland but as it was not he was happy to represent UK. The first part of his answer was excised from all media coverage and he was portrayed as an anti independence Scot. After that distortion he refused to make any comment on the matter whatsoever

  66. JLT says:

    To be quite honest, there have been a few comments here asking who told Andy not to discuss his views on independence.

    As said, the boy took a hell of a flak for the ‘anybody but England’ jibe. The furore from that probably warned Andy to keep politics out of sport.

    Secondly, the chances are, that because of that England jibe fallout, it was probably his advisors that told him to never discuss politics within sport. At the end of the day, the boy is a marketing machine as well as sportsman. People have invested in him. They will want a return. They also know that the potential loss in revenues from advertising, endorsement products as well as tricky interviews could undo the boy if he began opinionating on British-Scottish politics.

    I don’t think anyone from the Tennis committee, or even a Government advisor told Andy to ‘never discuss your nationality, boy’. I think it was basic common sense on Andy’s part, as well a word from his advisors that has kept him on a certain path when it came to politics.

    Overall, if we start going down this path of finger-pointing and insinuations, then paranoia will most definitely kick in, and then we really will start to sound like delusional keyboard warriors.

  67. orri says:

    Of course another way to look at this is that perhaps both stories are actually true and that Andy has actually left the dark side and come over to the light. If that were to be the case then naturally the unionist media might think the best course of action would be to downplay any perceived increase in support for independence. I always felt the “45” tags on facebook and elsewhere were potentially a mistake as they seemed to solidify support for independence at a level just short of victory. 45 and rising is a much more worrying prospect from a unionist standpoint.

  68. marydoll says:

    Will they put this sign up at RBS branches and buildings, oil rigs? Can’t imagine there will be too many more in Scotland.

  69. Dcanmore says:

    There was also that distortion ‘reported’ in the unionist press that Andy Murray vented his dislike at Alex Salmond producing the Saltire at Wimbledon. Of course that was not the case, Andy disliked the reaction that Alex Salmond got when Scottish flag was produced and also mentioned the then First Minister was a ‘good guy’.

  70. Fiona says:

    I look forward to seeing union jacks on all the closed pits, steelworks etc with a text saying “not funded by the UK”.

  71. Ken500 says:

    The UK raises £490Billion in taxes. Scotland raises £53Billion. Scotland gets back £35Billion, (finances own projects). £15Billion (UK) pensions/welfare benefits. £3Billion spend on Defence.(elsewhere)

    How can the UK spend £466Billion on projects. Nonsense.

    The rest of the UK borrows and spends another £90Billion. Prorata £9Billion more than Scotland. Then tranfers the amount and puts it on the Scottish accounts.

    Scotland pays for all projects in Scotland and is made to borrow and spend by Westminster on illegal wars, Trident, banking fraud, tax evasion, etc.

    Westminster is ruining the Scottish Oil sector for spite.

  72. Democracy Reborn says:

    It was no surprise to me when Andy eventually came out for Yes. I could understand why he might have felt pressure beforehand from his backroom team to stay neutral. He displays many Scottish characteristics : tremendous effort, dogged determination, tenacity, stubbornness, occasionally snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but nevertheless a burning desire to better himself, win and be the best. If you take all of that and apply it to politics, why would anyone think he would want Scotland to remain a subservient bit-part player within the Union?

    What’s more, he’s actually proved himself a winner on the world stage. 2 Grand Slam titles (Wimbledon and U.S. Open), 7 Grand Slam finals and Olympic Gold. I like the guy a lot and have tremendous respect for him. Compare what he’s achieved and the way he conducts himself with the ‘Proud Scot, But’ mediocrities (players and fans alike) in other sports who can only view themselves through the prism of Team GB. As it happens, Britain did next to nothing to advance Andy’s talent and career. He was forced to go to Spain as a teenager to obtain proper coaching and facilities.

  73. Jamie Arriere says:

    I think there is fun to be had on Twitter with hashtag #FundedbyUKgovernment, with all manner of tax dodgers/bailed-out bankers/highly paid civil servants etc

  74. Ken500 says:

    Danny Alexander will not be deciding anything, for very much longer. 8 weeks left.

    Danny Alexander/Osbourne put up Oil taxes 10% (£2Billion a year) in 2011 Budget and cost Scotland £4Billion a year – £16Billion. That would have financed a gie few Projects.

  75. george says:

    croudfunding already in progress to distribute “Funded by Scottish Oil” stickers in and around westminster and the city, i think.

    they really must have gone completely fucking tonto in downing street.

  76. Ken500 says:

    Westminster ain’t giving Scotland anything but their debt, and gross mismanagement.

  77. Robert Peffers says:

    @gillie says:1 March, 2015 at 12:04 pm:

    “So who warned Andy Murray to keep his mouth shut?”

    Well I for one did, on WoS, at the time.
    I did so before the outbreak of the southern hate campaign against Andy that I could clearly see coming. That was before Andy made any statement whatsoever.

  78. Robert Louis says:

    The Scottish Government should undertake to add a larger banner beside these obscene union rag ones, saying, ‘Truth:funded by your Scottish taxes’.

    I cannot imagine such union rag banners on things will last long anyway. Westminster just cannot see how colonial and patronising that will look to most Scots. They are blinded by their own dogma.

    They really, really don’t get it at all. Yet still they wonder why the SNP is now the third largest party in the UK.

    The more of this kind of thing they do, the more people in Scotland will reject them. In that sense, it is good, since it will accelerate the move to independence.

  79. Karmanaut says:

    Everyone beat me to it with the link to the “Funded by the UK Government” union flags story in the Mail.

    How do you quicken independence? Easy. Just rankle 45% of Scotland by pushing the subsidy lie. Connect your lie to the union flag and display it in public places.

    It’s actually quite heartening that they keep showing themselves, time and time again, to be so mind bogglingly dumb.

    Danny Alexander is almost comically incompetent.

  80. civgw says:

    The furore over his “anybody but England” comment when he was asked who he wanted to win a football match or tournament – I don’t remember the precise details – probably had a lot to do with his silence on the matter.

  81. Ken500 says:

    Goods are required to have country of origin – UK/EU Law? Goods are exported/imported worldwide. Consumers have the right to know where goods, originate or are manufactured, Ie where they come from.

  82. Fiona says:


    No they are not required to have such labelling except in a few specific instances. You have no such rights.

  83. David McCann says:

    OT. But I have been looking at MPs register of interests.

    Don’t you just love the amount of money declared by Gordon Brown in his Register of Interests?
    A total of over £700,000, which according to his entry is ”not receiving any money from this engagement personally. It is being held by the Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown to support my ongoing involvement in public life.”

    A few paragraphs below we read..

    9. Shareholdings
    (a) Office of Gordon and Sarah Brown Ltd; company set up to provide administrative support for Mr and Mrs Brown in their ongoing activities.

    No comment!!

  84. Dal Riata says:

    Andy Murray tweeted on 17 September:

    “Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. let’s do this!”

    The following, from HarryS, is an example of some of the responses on Twitter:

    “Wish you had been killed at Dunblane. Your life will be a misery from now on.”

    And 55% said No, we really are better together…?

  85. GrahamB says:

    Union Flags:
    The situation has improved slightly over the last 4 or 5 decades. In the late Sixties a fellow student had a summer job in one of the Motherwell steelworks stamping ‘Made in England’ on the products.

  86. HandandShrimp says:

    The flag thing, if true, is totally mental. There will a cottage industry in producing saltire plaques with “Paid for by Scottish Taxpayers” to stick over these things.

    It is 1st of March and not 1st April?

  87. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nana sales of TarTan spray paint rocket LoL.

  88. ronnie anderson says:

    Every foodbank in Britain should apply for a Plaque

  89. Brian Powell says:

    On the flags; to take it to the logical conclusion it should be the St George Cross, as all Unionist politicians and commentators keep telling us and England that Scotland is subsidised and would collapse if not for England.

  90. Fiona says:

    @ronnie anderson: Great idea!!

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    @thedogphilosopher says: 1 March, 2015 at 12:08 pm:

    ” … It must be hard to swallow when they see St Andrew flags waving instead of Union Jacks (Wee Eck knew). Harder when he declares himself pro-Indy. Thus he must be absorbed into the TeamGB fold so that ‘life’ can be normalised.

    Now there you have hit a couple of nails, a somewhat oblique blows, upon their heads. I mean by that statement the true facts being that the Union Flag is not the flag of any one country and that TeamGB is not the team of any one country. The Union flag, (the Jack is the smaller version that is flown at a ship’s Jack Staff), is the flag of two Kingdoms and the province of one of those kingdoms.

    Now the problem is not in the flag itself but in the erroneous belief that in the eyes of the Unionists the Union Flag is the flag of England. (Now don’t tell me I’m wrong), and that TeamGB is synonymous with Team England.

    For most of my life I’ve seen the above facts as true. I recall attending a Scotland vs England international match at Hampden. As we walked to the stadium we passed a coach with England supporters spilling out upon the street. They were bedecked in Red, White and Blue, carried Union Flags and were singing God Save The Queen.

    I have the ability to maintain a straight face and innocently asked the crowd of English supporters, “Going to the match Lads”? I was, of course, met with incredulous looks and replies like, “Can you not see the colours?”, “Can you not see the flags”? “Don’t you hear the National Anthem”?

    To which I innocently said, “Of course I do and that’s why I had to ask the question”. Again incredulous looks. I continued, “You see lads those colours include my countries colours, those flags include my countries flag and God Save the Queen also includes my countries too. So I know you are supporting a United Kingdom Team but I don’t know what country of the United Kingdom you support.

    I just have to assume it can’t be England or you would be wearing Red and White, carrying the flag of St George and probably singing There’ll always be an England or something like that. I’d though you were all neutrals from perhaps Wales or N. Ireland and didn’t want to side with either team. Fact is that it is comparatively a recent thing for England fans to even know what the England flag is. The genuinely though it was the Union Flag and UK national anthem – and many still think like that.

  92. call me dave says:

    @ronnie anderson

    I like your thinking. 🙂

    Seriously though it just takes a few minutes on the comments to see how easy it is for folk to utilise such a daft idea as a campaign tool to ridicule the whole thing.

  93. Macart says:

    @ Clootie and JK

    They believe it because they are told to, because its effectively all they are told. How many times over the past two years did we listen to the barking, ill informed views of daytime couch punditry on TV and marvel at their lack of knowledge, empathy or awareness on Scottish politics in general?

    I’ve lost count of the politicians, articles and commentators who peddled this divisive bollocks during the referendum. Hell yes there are people out there who promote that kind of view, but they are, as we know, in the minority. How and ever its those kinds of views which media types and politicians focus on when tarring the whole cause of self determination. They have the soapbox without opportunity to redress in their pocket and their narrative will effectively be the only one your average punter in England will see or hear of.

    Its nasty, unfair and intended to cause damage in a scattershot fashion, but that’s the nature of the beast we’re dealing with. Collateral societal damage doesn’t rank very highly on their to do list. Crushing dissension, maintaining the order of things, retaining corporate and political control are apparently way more important.

  94. caledonia says:

    The funny thing is by posting about wings in the daily record they have let readers come here to see what it is all about and some at my work are amazed at all the lies they have told

    look forward to more wings stories in the daily record

  95. Ken500 says:

    The Scottish Gov will consent for any Scottish project to be tarred with any Union flag. The Tories will be gone. So will any other politician that makes such a request.

  96. Nana Smith says:


    Twitter has gone with fundedbyukgovernment. Here’s just a few tweets.

    Not going according to plan eh danny ya muppet!

    5 Westminster paedophile rings #fundedbyukgovernment

    Better Together Ltd #fundedbyukgovernment

    Israel’s nuclear weapons #fundedbyukgovernment

    The killing of 200,000 Libyans #fundedbyugovernment

    Bankers Bonuses #fundedbyukgovernment

    Jimmy Savile #FundedByUKGovernment

    The dumping of 30 tonnes of spent uranium shells in the Solway #fundedbyukgovernment

    BENEFITS SANCTIONS #fundedbyukgovernment

    9 years of study, but no degree to show for it” #fundedbyukgovernment

  97. Lollysmum says:

    Perhaps Wings needs a banner on the site saying ‘Not Funded by UK Government but readers’ given the support from people donating to the crowdfunder?

  98. Dal Riata says:

    “True Brit [Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!] tennis ace has opposed Scottish independence without actually saying “Vote No”.”

    No he hasn’t! Daily Mirror = Liars

    “… he also hinted heavily he was in favour of retaining the union.”

    No he didn’t! Daily Record = Liars

    Both owned by Trinity Mirror PLC. From their company values:

    We have integrity; championing honesty and trust, and showing respect for our colleagues, audience, customers, shareholders and business partners.

    Trinity Mirror PLC = Liars

  99. Onwards says:

    The problem is that the media try to paint support for Scottish self-government as some kind of anti-Englishness or anti-Britishness.

    When Scotland eventually gains independence it will result in a better Britain. A new relationship of equals.

  100. JPJ2 says:

    As usual it was the unionists who were doing the bullying, making it almost impossible for Murray to give voice to his true opinions.

    I am sure the Daily Record knew they were wrong, but were relying on Murray being bullied (there is that word again) into silence.

  101. Effijy says:

    If it was Andy’s sponsors who thought that he shouldn’y declate
    his allegiance to his country of Birth, Scotland, I would find
    it strange that his main sponsor, Royal Bank od Scotland, should object?

    The land that gave the bank birth and an honorable reputation, which made multi-Billion pound profits, which were not enough, so they had to take up casino banking, pay excessive bankers bonuses, PPI Fraud, liebour Rate Rigging, closing viable business’ for profit, etc, etc.

    Yeh, they would be worried about Andy ruining their reputation????????????????????????????????????????

  102. john king says:

    Karmanaut says
    “Danny Alexander is almost comically incompetent.”

    Danny Alexander is an absolute fuckwit of the highest order,
    fixed that for you.

  103. thedogphilosopher says:

    Clootie @ 1.27

    Makes some compelling points on the longstanding misconception that being pro-Indy somehow equates with being anti-English. This is the end of the stick that many unionists within the establishment (particularly the Labour lot) prefer to wield, generating emotive language such as ‘separatists’, ‘isolationists’, quite often with the inference of being ‘racist’.

    What does exist, as Clootie points out, is resentment on the Indy side, mostly aimed at the Brit establishment which is viewed as both corrupt and undemocratic. We aspire to something different, an alternative to the Westminster ‘menu’.

    Such conflict will only be resolved once Scotland has achieved independence, after which, no doubt, mutual respect will break out in abundance. This may take a little time, just as the Brits had to grudgingly accept the democratic impulse of those many other countries she once ruled over.

    Until then, the Brit establishment will continue to puff out its arrogant chest, and we on the pro-Indy side will continue to grind our teeth.

  104. Ken500 says:

    The consumers have a right to know where their goods and services come from and country of origin. Goods and services are required to be labelled. The Europeans are especially vigilant. .

    Fish from Scotland marked in Spain. Goods labelled can have a premium for recognised quality. Ie Scottish food stuffs. German cars.

  105. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Should these signs, depending on their size and visibility , not be subject to planning laws?

    My understanding that, last time I was involved over a “turn left for a pub” sign on an A road was that it was not acceptable.

    Otherwise it would be like the USA with unsightly mega signs which would distract drivers, all up and down main roads.

    Alexander is a Grade A idiot. Apologies to all villages throughout Scotland.

  106. Tarisgal says:

    It is good that Andy Murray has come out and admitted his stance re independence. I have to say though (at the risk of being shouted at as a newbie here and perhaps I have not yet earned the right to disagree here! Sorry folks but it’s important to me) – I’d respect the man more if he had said much sooner than he did.

    Many, many people came out and gave their support for Scotland at the risk of their jobs. Even staff in the superstores were told NOT to admit to ‘yes’ leanings – OR ELSE – yep, was told that by a member of Morrison’s staff etc. But they did so. Keeping their jobs was as important to them, if not more so, than a tennis-player with a lot of savings in the bank… But they canvassed, dropped leaflets and generally let it be known where their conscience led them. I really respect them for that…

    Secondly (and I only read this in an online newspaper but can’t remember which one so can’t go source it – SO I MAY BE WRONG!!) but I remember reading in the comments section that locals were NOT HAPPY at the fact that some homes or land was compulsorily purchased in connection to Murray’s hotel. Of course I read that when I still had a LITTLE belief in newspapers. Since then my belief has gone soooo far south it’s somewhere in Antarctica. So it’s possible this is not so… And I apologise if this is not so, because I can’t now source it. But it did rather make me feel I’m not sure about this guy. Good tennis player perhaps but… is he someone I can respect?

    My point is – I’d have a little more admiration for Murray if he had stood up like the adult he is, regardless – no, IN SPITE OF – the intimidation and said, “Gooooo Scotland!”

    Sorry – I realise a lot of people here really like what he does and what he has achieved. (And I like that. We’re not automatons that follow each other blindly without individual thought). Me – not so much.

  107. bjsalba says:

    O/T on the new signage – wasn’t road signs being devolved under the Smith Commission offering?

    I’d call them Indian givers, but then I’d be falling into the same trap as the English settlers who were clueless about the culture they were dealing with.

  108. Golfnut says:

    Building projects.
    Could be very interesting to list projects that have been funded by Wm in Scotland.

    Since devolution, roads, bridges etc are funded by Holyrood and prior to that from the Scottish office.

    Of the few examples of Scotland’s financial contribution and actual funding, namely treasury papers 1900 to 1922, Scotland only received back between 27 and 47 percent in those years.

    So who paid exactly, remember we even have to contribute to military spending in the RUk.

    To the best of my knowledge WM has not even invested financially in the Oil industry.

    Willing to be corrected of course.

  109. Ken500 says:

    @ ‘The Scottish Gov will not consent to any request for any projects being tarred with the Union flag’.

    Everywhere Andy plays his place of birth is displayed on the screen for all to see. Dunblane, Scotland. He is classed as a UK competitor. At present Scotland is in the UK. Factually correct.

  110. Dan Huil says:

    I have to say I always feel physically sick when I see the union flag.

  111. ronnie anderson says:

    @ call me dave I like your thinking. 🙂

    Dont like it to much Dave or you,ll end up as Daft as me an its Infectious. lol

  112. JLT says:


    I would find it strange that his main sponsor, Royal Bank of Scotland, should object? The land that gave the bank birth and an honorable reputation…

    I would be a slightly careful on this one. The Bank was founded in 1727 – 20 years after the Union. This means (as we have always pointed out when Unionists scream at us about the Bank’s debt) …that this is a British Bank!

    Guys, I think you’re looking for conspiracy theories, when to be quite honest, I don’t think there are any. I don’t believe anyone insidiously told him to not discuss nationality except himself (because of the England jibe) and his advisors.

    I honestly believe we need to return to the article that Stuart has penned and concentrate on the context within that …and that is the lies being perpetuated by the mainstream newspapers.

  113. john king says:

    you have the same right as anyone else to say what you think, no one gives you that right its your already.

  114. Edward says:

    O/T On the subject of Danny Alexander’s idiotic signage

    Apparently any capital project that wants funding from the UK Government will have to agree to place the ‘Funded by UK Taxpayers sign.

    Village idiot Alexander quoted broadband as an example.
    Now it might be me, but broadband is a service and not a structure. Its fibre optic cables as opposed to copper cabling. So where would the big sign go?

    I think also village idiot Alexander doesn’t understand that funding in general in Scotland is supplied by the Scottish Government, so does that mean that the Scottish Government can also put signs up as well?

  115. ronnie anderson says:

    Plaque,s for Dalgety Bay please and throw in a few for Faslane,dot bother wie wan fur BBc it wont be there long.

  116. Ken500 says:

    Thatcher cancelled an oil pipe line wasting the equivalent of £Billions of Gas. The Gas burnt off. One of her Minister’s resigned. Thatcher tried to get the Oil land pipeline to Newcastle at vast expense. It should have been at Peterhead the nearest land mass, It got as far as near Edinburgh – Grangemouth.

    The UK Gov refused permission for a Carbon Capture project at Longannet in Fife. Westminster indecison prevented Scotland from bidding for EU Renewable Grants. They spent £2Billion on 2 coal plants near Clegg’s constituency. Coal is half the price of Gas and imported. There are coal reserves all over the UK.

    They want to build nuclear stations at a massive cost and threat, when there are alternatives. The last nuclear stations built in Finland and France were years late and over budget. Westminster cancelled a £9Billion Barrage Project in the Humber, which would have been more cost effective.

  117. Les Wilson says:

    john king says:
    1 March, 2015 at 3:07 pm
    Karmanaut says

    John, that gave me a good laugh, well said!

  118. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Golfnut says:
    1 March, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    “Building projects.
    Could be very interesting to list projects that have been funded by Wm in Scotland.

    Of the few examples of Scotland’s financial contribution and actual funding, namely treasury papers 1900 to 1922, Scotland only received back between 27 and 47 percent in those years.”

    Yes Golfnut, they were designated ss “contributions to Imperial expenses”

    They stopped publishing them in 1922, coincidentally with Dublin uprising and the George Square occupation and maybe local rent strikes?

    Quite a coincidence, non?

    Plus ça change.

  119. Doug Daniel says:

    It’s good to see Andy supports independence for the best reason of all – because it’s just the normal thing for a country to do.

    I always knew he was a good lad.

  120. Maid_in_Scotland says:

    I already have to look at the UJ every day in this north Highland village since the local worthies proudly erected a flagpole at the war memorial 2 or 3 years ago!

    As to ‘UK funded projects as far north as Caithness’, there are 3 oil platforms within sight of this neck of the woods (sadly coming to the end of their 40 year life, yep that’s 40 years of oil) and the comically named London – Thurso trunk road at its northern-most end from which you can see these platforms (the A9), is so badly in need of repair and re-surfacing, not to mention re-alignment in places, it’s embarrassing and dangerous. It runs for 110 miles north of Inverness (the last 60 miles are by far the worst) and is the ONLY trunk road up here. It’s heavily used by lorries, cars, buses and, of course, ambulances on their daily round trips of hundreds of miles to Raigmore Hospital, Inverness. Don’t even think about the many hundreds of miles of single-track roads, some stretches in very poor condition, which are lifelines to outlying communities. I wait with baited breath to see UJs sprouting up all over our newly-surfaced roads. “This road has been tarred for you courtesy of the taxpayers of Surrey.” Aye, right.

    Message for Danny Alexander – well, words fail me, actually. Get a grip of yourself, son.


  121. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Edwaed

    “Apparently any capital project that wants funding from the UK Government will have to agree to place the ‘Funded by UK Taxpayers sign.

    The penultimate nail in that wee twerp’s coffin?

  122. peekay says:

    Wasn’t that long ago they were telling us that wee saltires on the engines of the Scottish Fire Service weren’t allowed as it was deemed ‘political’

  123. Tarisgal says:

    @John King,

    Thank you John. I understand what you are saying and I appreciate your saying it. I’ve ‘lurked’ on this page for a long time but the last little while decided that it might be time to ‘jump in with both feet’ and add my two cents worth.

    Having said that, it is a little… intimidating, joining in a ‘community’ of people that have been together for a while and know each other well. But (just like Andy Murray), I think sometimes we need to throw caution to the wind and just go for it! So I just ‘jumped in and said my piece’. But was conscious that some might feel ‘who the heck does the ‘new gal’ think she is!

    In my defence, I WOULD like to say – I usually agree with most of what is being said here, re the MSM, the labour party (nope, not even going to do them the courtesy of capitalising the first letter of their name, I dislike them that much!) etc. Just now and again I think ‘mmm… noooo… can’t go along with that’. I have found the folks that congregate here to be lovely people with such great senses of humour. But I think it’s the nature of the beast, when in this kind of ‘community’, to be suspicious of the ‘newcomer’. Last word – I’m Indy through and through – no worries there!

    Thanks John.

  124. davidb says:

    @ Capella.

    I remember the smile I had listening to that show. I knew. It was as close to a subliminal advert for Yes as could be put out under the Radar.

    Many of us here can openly wear SNP badges, and engage in acts of defiance, but there are many many fellow supporters of the cause who cannot. It is better that they are secret supporters than they support the other side. So leave Andy alone. For all we know he might send money to the party. He could be an anonymous wings contributor. I have myself donated before to causes I would not own up to.

    We can only hope the success of sportsmen on an international stage shows other young Scots that we are just as good as any other nation. Yes we can.

  125. Giving Goose says:

    The entire constitutional debate can be modelled on an onion (bear with me). At the deepest layer you have the vested interests of the unionists, e.g. Danny Alexander, Murphy etc, only interested in career, power and money. In the outer layers the real issues are are being identified, discussed, debated. Decisions are being made on voting intentions.

    Meanwhile within the inner layers of the onion (union) idiots like Alexander are making their own decisions completely remote from the real issues and discussions played out on the outer layers.

    Alexander’s latest gem on the flag goes beyond comedy. It’s actually petty nationalism and he’s fallen into the trap that he and his fellow unionists have tried to set for the Yes side.

    It smacks of desperation. Life at the centre of the onion (union) goes on, totally oblivious to what matters in the real world!

  126. john king says:

    your welcome.

    look at Ian Brotherhoods posts re The Counting House in George Square, why dont you come along 01/05/15 it’ll be a blast,
    if you look at the middle at the top of the page there are three headings
    Scottish politics
    UK politics
    and Zany comedy relief
    if you look at zany comedy
    you will find a heading called “off topic”
    in there you can chat with (whoever s online) and get to know folks, minds you its usually Paula Rose fencing with Ian but is always a great laugh

  127. Les Wilson says:

    Tarisgal says:

    Do not worry, you are welcome in the World of Wingers!

  128. Capella says:

    Here’s a handy wee map of the broadband structure from a recent Telegraph. Scroll down a bit for the map.
    They’ll need an awful lot of stickers for England but hardly any for Scotland and Wales. But we will probably get to pay our share.

    We’ll need to source similar infrastructure maps for road, rail etc. Should be interesting.

  129. annie says:

    Good job they’re devolving “Signs” thanks Smith.

  130. Mealer says:

    When I see a union flag,I see an English flag STAMPED on a Scottish flag.

  131. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Anybody else think that Danny Alexander is being patronised by George Osborn?

    Please Sir, please Sir!

    Wizard idea Danny and we’ll call it Danny’s Flag!

    Now all we need is and Andrew Carmichael jolly good idea before the W GE.

    They could be dangerous if they had any brains.

  132. Mealer says:

    Here’s a wee tip.If you see a unionist with a saltire,ask him why he has an SNP flag/badge etc.It seems to wind them up wonderfully.

  133. Macart says:

    @ Tarisgal

    It’d be a dull old world if we were all carbon copies. You get to speak your mind on here in my experience and sometimes that means we disagree, no bad thing IMO. 😉

  134. Stoker says:

    @ Tarisgal.

    There is no such thing as earning the right to disagree on here.

    It’s compulsory that you do, just don’t make a habit of it.

    As for Andy Murray, i know where you’re coming from and to an extent i’m with you on that one BUT, at the end of the day, he is one of us, just like you, and that’s all that matters.

    Welcome to the madhouse.

  135. Tarisgal says:

    @John King @Les Wilson

    Thank you gentlemen. I appreciate your welcomes.

    Had a quick look at the ‘Off Topic’ (in the middle of something else atm) – had to laugh out VERY loud! 😉 Will enjoy having a proper look when I have a wee bit more time! Thanks for pointing the way! Lol 🙂

  136. Paula Rose says:


  137. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Politics moves very fast and in mysterious ways sometimes.
    The 1916 rebellion in Ireland failed. At that point Ireland had its share of “proud Irish buts” just as we have had our “proud Scot buts” but we may be facing in Scotland today some parallels to what happened very fast in the period immediately after the failed Easter Rising in Dublin.
    In the 1918 Irish Westminster election Sinn Fein and Irish nationalist candidates achieved over 50% of the popular vote and all but wiped out the unionists in what was to become the part of Ireland that became the Republic. (By 1919 these elected candidates had walked out of Westminster and declared for an independent Ireland)
    What had actually happened was that the awakened nationalist vote in Ireland turned out to vote in almost its totality but the unionist vote which was made up of the ascendancy and its vested interest lost a lot of the proud Irish buts and undecideds and fearties who didn’t go down to the polls. (The appalling executions of surrendered rebels had had huge consequence in the minds of many Irish voters)

    Could we be looking at something similar happening here on 7th May? I cannot see anything the unionists have done or are doing that is likely to get an enthusiastic turnout of their vote.
    Our future is now out of the hands of those who would control it and things are moving very fast indeed

  138. GusI says:


    It could be a pop-up window every time you connect to the internet in Caithness!

  139. cearc says:

    Paula Rose,

    Well at least it wasn’t with wee johnny, you might have got paint on your cover-littles.

  140. liz g says:

    Does the new sign go on all things Royal ?

  141. Achnababan says:

    I have huge respect for Andy Murray – we should be enormously grateful for his support in our time of need.

    He is now out as one of us! This emboldens me and I hope it does others…..

    Remember this – everyone around him, from the middle class English tennis luvvies to the money men and woman, would have been telling him to stay quiet for very good reasons – career, money and the media backlash (including the BBC who cover Wimbledon etc).

    Add to this the likelihood that he is probably not a very political person and it is off with the cap – he is a great, true Scottish hero and lets embrace him.

    Cant wait to see more Saltires flying at Wimbledon

  142. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill

    Thanks for that correction.

  143. Papadox says:

    I am not and never have been anti ENGLISH! However thanks to EBC, MSM and WESTMINSTER I am being demonised and belittled along with my wee country by these bigots and am beginning to feel a wee resentment taking root.

    You reap what you sow!

  144. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Stoker.

    “There is no such thing as earning the right to disagree on here.

    It’s compulsory that you do, just don’t make a habit of it.”

    I disagree.

  145. Robert Peffers says:

    @John H. says:1 March, 2015 at 12:42 pm:

    ” … I wonder how they’ll react to this. Will the BBC and others still insist on calling him British, or English?”

    Let’s face it much of the problem is down to we Scots ourselves. At 15 years old I went to work in Rosyth Dockyard. In those days Scots were in the minority as the Admiralty had imported the entire Dockyard staff from the southern yards when the Yard reopened.

    There was not a single management person, from Charge-hand to the Manager of the departments that was Scottish. As for such as the Captain of the Dockyard upwards they were exclusively English. You can believe that we got a lot of stick and especially myself who was then a dyed in the wool SNP supporter.

    However, I never missed a chance to correct any and all erroneous statements. Anyone who used England instead of Britain got the proverbial, “Flech i the lug”. The same went for such things as the use of the Union flag and, (so called), national anthem as being that of England also got the insect in their aural channel. Yet I’ve had opposition right here on WoS from independence supporters for telling it as it is.

    Whether they like it or not we Scots have always been Britons, that is British, and we are legally the three country Kingdom of England’s only partner kingdom in the Union. It is, after all, legally a united Kingdom and has never been a single country. So I don’t give a damn who it is, or what their social or service rank is, if the speak of the United Kingdom as a country I’m going to pull them up for doing so.

    And thereby hangs the tail. As centuries of Scots have tugged their forelocks and suffered the insufferable while grinding their teeth without speaking up they have only encouraged the English to claim to be our masters.

    The most insulting person I have come across in recent years is Cameron who, often several times in one sentence, speaks as if the UK was one country and it was England.

    The next is David Mundell who said this load of absolute bare faced lies : –

    “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”.

    If we do not pull those who mindlessly abuse Scotland then we have no one but ourselves to blame. It’s like the schoolyard – if the others allow the bully to get away with verbal abuse the bully will soon be using his/her fists.

  146. Cactus says:

    Looking back at all the Main Stream Media (MSM) articles, like Andy Murray’s one above, hopefully Scotsfolk everywhere can now understand (in retrospect) the tone and taste, in which these reports were all written about our home.

    That’ll be why it’s called a ‘learning curve‘.

    If you fancy putting up some decorations in your abode for SNP/Scotlands shot at the Westminster General Election, please remember the following:

    Black & yellow ~ White & blue.

    Check out the first 20 seconds.. Barry knows 😉

    Also, a welcome to Tarisgal and all the new curious readers X.

  147. john king says:

    BtP says
    “Anybody else think that Danny Alexander is being patronised by George Osborn?

    Please Sir, please Sir!

    Wizard idea Danny and we’ll call it Danny’s Flag!

    Now all we need is and Andrew Carmichael jolly good idea before the W GE.”

    Like this you mean

  148. Craig P says:

    Murray was wise to stay out of it, he would have got dogs abuse from the British and Scottish media and the middle class tennis fans of Wimbledon would likely have turned against him.

    However when he was asked the question before the referendum and replied by saying “I will research the issue before coming to a conclusion,” I thought hello, this is not the reaction of a No voter – as polls at the time suggested that the better informed people were, the more likely they were voting Yes.

  149. john king says:

    Robert Peffers says
    “Whether they like it or not we Scots have always been Britons,”

    For the life of me I cannot understand why that is hard to get,
    we are and no matter what, will always be British .

  150. Dunx says:

    Ref; the Butcher’s Apron plaque

    Whilst not wishing to condone or encourage any form of extremism I see that it is possible to……

    “Yarn Bomb” or “Guerilla Knit” ANYTHING in the world

    just saying…..

  151. john king says:

    Tarisgal says
    “Thank you gentlemen”

    Im a gentleman, Im a gentleman
    you hear that Paula Rose?
    Tarsigal says Im a gentleman
    runs around with shirt over head
    whoohoooooo. 🙂

    “Had a quick look at the ‘Off Topic’”

    you should have told us you were coming,
    we would have got Paula Rose to tidy up a bit 🙂

  152. Robert Peffers says:


    Lollysmum says:1 March, 2015 at 1:29 pm:

    “It would seem that Westminster is determined to remind us who is in charge & that they don’t learn from their mistakes.”

    Och! Lollysmum, we cybernats can soon put that one to bed and turn the tables, (to mix my metaphors).

    We get self adhesive posters and stickers made up with a Saltire background and a heading that says, “FUNDED BY SCOTTISH OIL, GAS AND TAXATION”.

    Then we not only stick them below the Union Jack posters in Scotland but have any independence supporter going anywhere in England, for example to Heathrow, or on the tube, or on a Transport for London vehicle to stick them in prominent places on the London infrastructure items we Scots have been forced to finance.

  153. john king says:

    You could have warned us Dunx,
    I’ve just had my tea min!

  154. Wuffing Dug says:

    I think beakers flags are a great idea. I remember driving down the A9 last year seeing many defaced bt billboards. While not condoning vandalism, I took heart seeing the level of discontent on show. Mer raw meat fur the balcony 🙂

  155. Tam Jardine says:

    Thanks Nana

    That piece in the Mail says something really strange:

    “The use of the logo will seek to emphasise that major investment in big money projects is only possible thanks to the economic strength of Scotland remaining in the UK.”

    ONLY possible eh? So in an independent Scotland we would never be able to build another road or bridge, or any other ‘big money’ project ever.

    How do any of the 190 odd countries in the world that don’t benefit from the economic strength oft being in the UK manage to carry out major infrastructure projects?

  156. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Giving Goose 4:37pm Reading Your post brought tears to my eyes.

  157. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Tarisgal WooF Woof fae ah Lurker tae a Lurcher, an ah hope ah hear your bark often. I,ll add my sincere Welcome to the rest of the Mobs,if you get lost on here just shout there,s plenty of helping hands.

  158. TheItalianJob says:

    At GrahamB at 2.35pm

    I remember a company director (used to come into my Dads shop) who’s company made shirts in Glenrothes in the 70s and 80s. The made shirts for many big stores (including Harrods) and they were stamped “Made in England”. He would let us go to the factory and buy the shirts for a 1/4 of what they sold in Harrods for.

    Imagine me at that age in my early twenties wearing Harrods shirts.

  159. Wuffing Dug says:

    @John King
    Osborn – Alexander! Those latrines are a disgrace!
    Beaker – right on it sir,
    Beaker – sir, there’s no bog brush.
    Osborn – improvise Danny dear boy, bleach and bare hands will do!

  160. Ken500 says:

    Westminster economic policies which increased Oil tax 10% (£2Billion) a year in 2011 Budget (Danny Alexander) has cost Scotland £4Billion a year in lost revenues Lost Oil exploration . – £16Billion. Scotland has lost £16Billion enough to pay for any Projects with extra funds left.

    Westminster now has the audacity to suggest some money will be borrowed, spent and put on Scotland’s account with interest for £Millions of Scottish projects with a Union stamp on it.

    Having lost Scotland £Billions. They now chose to indebt Scotland with interest for projects with union stamp on it. The cheek and audacity is outstanding. More Westminster lies and nonsense. The pathetic ex ski lift manager could not manage a piss up at a brewery. A national disgrace. Unfit for Publuc office.

  161. Casper1066 says:

    Olympic Gold and silver Champion, US Open and Wimbledon Champion, I’m sure his contracts and PR people would have warned him against giving the press bullets to fire. But I follow his career and Andy did come out in favour of independence. Andy is a true Scot, its just tennis courts are in England otherwise he would be up here. English are just annoyed they have not won Wimbledon since 1936.

  162. Deansy says:

    Let’s face it – the (London) MSM are chomping at the bit to hate him. Strange, as I reckon he’s still got a few more opens in him and we all know how desparate they are to be associated with ‘success’. Usually (and shamelessly) they’ll cling onto the coat-tails of any Scottish, Irish or Welsh winner\champion who instantly become ‘British’ the moment the final whistle\bell\flag etc is done !! Loss or injury sees the instant ‘Citizenship’ withdrawn and he or she are thrown back to their lowly ‘Provincial pile’ !!

  163. Morag says:

    I’m actually quite surprised he’s come out now. I don’t think it was any great conversion, I think he was always Yes but persuaded to keep his mouth shut to avoid English tennis fans turning against him.

    As someone just said, he’s at the peak of his career. These bitter English fans still have the potential to do a lot of damage. They won’t be sweetness and light about this just because No won the referendum. Especially not in the present political climate.

  164. Ali says:

    Sorry Andy, but you should have been unequivocal before the event. It’s a bit late now. Perhaps next time. All it took was for people like you to keep your heads down playing it safe. Who knows how much could have been changed. But no – “you can’t win” so best to keep mum.

  165. Grouse Beater says:

    Ali: you should have been unequivocal before the event.

    I believe he did.

    He and his mother announced they were investing their funds in a ‘Tennis Academy’ established in Edinburgh, “my capital city.” (The site has been identified and ring fenced.) He made a speech extoling the virtues of his homeland, and later bought a hotel in his home town, Dunblane.

    In both cases he could have invested south of the border. There was also his ‘I’d never support the English football team,’ remark, widely publicised.

    Then again, if you have signed up to corporate sponsors who demand neutrality in the game of politics, and every son of a British bitch throws a Union Jack over your shoulders in preparation for a photograph, your name become synonymous with the wrong side in the mind of observers, as is meant to happen.

    In particular, he always refused to be drawn when asked if he supported the Union. That alone told the intelligent his allegiance was not with Cameron’s club.

    But the common man’s decision should not be predicated on which celebrity says yes or no. He should vote according to his own mind and conscience.

  166. IAB says:

    Good on you, Andy

  167. Murray says:

    Advantage Rev

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