Two Woke Princes
Last night the SNP ditched its second office-bearing member in a week for supposed “anti-Semitism”. Both were thrown under the bus days before a general election for comments deemed to have compared the actions of the government of Israel to those of the Nazis during WW2, which is contrary to the definition of the term used by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.
The specific line that both were deemed to have infringed was “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis” – although interestingly the SNP has never publicly confirmed that it’s actually signed up to the definition, and the super-woke Greens haven’t adopted it either.
The suspensions of Neale Hanvey and Denise Findlay were triggered by the actions of supporters of two SNP politicians who have recently been very vocal about supposed “cybernat abuse” – MEP Alyn Smith and MP Stewart McDonald, both pictured below.
And some alert readers had questions.
Because in 2014 Alyn Smith said this:
Accusing the Israeli government of being a “primary opponent of peace”, “brutalising the population” of Palestinians and “encouraging violence, which is then used to justify further aggression” sounds to us an awful lot like the first two charges in this list:
And why is that relevant? Because those are the indictments that were levelled against the defendants in the Nuremberg Trials of 1945-46.
It’s quite hard to think of anything that more comprehensively “Draws comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis” than accusing them of exactly what dozens of Nazi war criminals were condemned to death for.
So by the same rules that did for Hanvey and Findlay, Alyn Smith is clearly also a vile anti-Semite who must be purged from the SNP.
But surely we can at least be confident that the super-pious, ultra-centrist, anti-abuse stalwart McDonald has never done anything as outrageous as to accuse the contemporary government of Israel of acts comparable to Nazi war crimes?
Oh. Oh dear.
It’s not exactly ambiguous, is it? A direct call for the then Prime Minister of Israel to face a war-crimes trial for racist oppression, just like the Nazis. So if we’re bound by the IHRA definition, Stewart McDonald is clearly also an anti-Semite who must be suspended from the SNP immediately without a hearing, just like Neale Hanvey.
(Amusingly, just last night McDonald had described the idea of comparing the Israeli government to the war criminals charged at Nuremberg as “revolting”, but that was when WE were supposedly doing it. It’s different if you’re him, obviously)
Now, as it happens, we don’t disagree with what either man said on the subject, just like we didn’t disagree with Hanvey and Findlay when they said the same things, and nor do we think either is anti-Semitic. Israel of all nations must be aware of the road that paved the way to the Holocaust, and should not be given a free pass to travel down it, just like we don’t let murderers off if they’re psychologically damaged because their mum got murdered when they were a child or something.
But the point is that if you make your bed you must lie in it – if breaching the IHRA definition is anti-Semitism when you’re Hanvey or Findlay, then it’s anti-Semitism when you’re Smith and McDonald too.
The screeching woke fundamentalists who surround both men insist that their Stalinist purges of the party are necessary to remove obstacles to a “better Scotland” (in which category they also include this site.)
But a better Scotland would be a place where blatant double standards and brazen hypocrisy were not tolerated, and where mobs of pitchfork-wielding fascists did not wield the power to drive out those they considered impure untermenschen.
If Hanvey and Findlay are not fit for the modern SNP, then it is demonstrably the case that neither Smith nor McDonald are either. And as it happens, one particular member of the ParteiStaatsPolizei agrees with us – Smith’s boyfriend and Woke Witchfinder General, Jordon Henderson.
Oops.
Henderson and most of the rest of the SNP’s transcult McCarthyites have currently locked down their social media accounts while they frantically purge their own histories of unfortunate comments.
Most strikingly the deeply brave and stunning self-described Scottish Government equalities adviser and former penis owner Leeze Lawrence.
Can any alert readers think of any organisations with a poor historical record on the treatment of gypsies and Russians? It’s slipping our mind at the moment.
Lawrence is an all-round charmer:
Lawrence subsequently deleted the tweets and tried to claim they were Photoshop fakes. But alert readers had archived them as proof, for example here and here and here and here.
Henderson is almost as delightful a character.
But Lawrence and Henderson couldn’t be more warmly embraced (in Henderson’s case literally) by the SNP’s wokest representatives:
(Lawrence also has a revealing view on the SNP’s purpose.)
So to be honest with you, readers, we’re not quite sure what the rules of the new “better Scotland” will be, because they seem to be rather fluid. But if the SNP actually do want to achieve independence, it might be an idea to nail them down, and also to check that the people currently being thrown under the bus are the right ones.
Because right now the party is becoming more of a roadblock than a routemap.
Good ‘God’. There’s a smell of fishy in all of the ‘antisemitism’ crap we are being bombarded with.
I’m oldschool, I thought it was the right wing that had the numbdead thugs who goosestepped up our streets and performed their nazi salutes.
Now ‘mention Israel’ and its “just as bad”.
Pathetic.
I’m willing to bet that this will be met by silence and inaction from Nicola Sturgeon and the rest of the SNP leadership. It’s such a wide open flank for attack that it’s amazing the media haven’t pounced on it.
Well Andrew, after this blog they’re bound to now.
Support BDS to help stop the slow genocide in Gaza.
.
The SNP should stop playing by Westminster rules as proffered by the neocons. No route to freedom from the oppressors.
It’s poor timing but it does need to be brought to people attention.
I’m a bit concerned by these tweets from ‘Leeze’ though. Are you 100% sure they genuine? I admit that I can be ‘vitriolic’ at times but nothing I ever say is as base and crude as these are. That makes me doubt their credibility. It seems to me that someone else has written them and put her name to them.
I might be wrong though. Maybe she is just thick, crude and nasty.
Repeat after me, anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism.
Well they could strongly state their support for women’s rights and advocates of women’s rights and for downtrodden nations like the Palestinians. And they could rein in the woke idiots before they do any more damage. And they could do that this week, publicly.
That would help.
Let’s all just vote for the fragrant, perfect Conservatives and forget about independence .
Won’t be long before the MSM go fully ham with this, surely?
I think there is a separate agenda here and it’s all getting quite tiresome and boring.
It’s hard to believe an actual independence supporter would devote hours to researching this and putting it together one week before a general election.
True independence supporters should now be able to see this for what it is.
Sadly, the way you are twisting this and trying to to make it more important than it really is will have people looking more closely at some of your pro-indy stuff.
And all for what?
Thank goodness yer here Wings
I’m with Stu on this, if we don’t call it out now it will become “the norm” down the road, along with compelled speech, re-education and ending up with a “Trumpesque” knee jerk reaction.
Sadly disappointed with the SNP leadership, but will still vote for SNP in a weeks time.
After that? What’s Alex doing these days?
This election there is little option than to vote SNP. But the self-ID wokiness might have just enough attention in the MSM to put some SNP voters off. The stay-at-homes did for us in 2017, the same could happen again.
Surely I’m not the only one who wonders at the timing of this? If the UKSS have done their job, they will have had placed sleepers in the YES movement and undoubtedly the SNP. In addition the influx of members after 2014 was a golden opportunity to infiltrate as I think the SNP took their eye off the ball in handling all these newcomers. They brought with them the infighting so prevalent with Labour in years past.
The question for me now is, can I still trust the current leadership to have the courage to press for IR2 before the next Holyrood election? And unfortunately I can’t say they will with any confidence.
Hope I’m wrong on all counts, but …
I can’t wait for the parties response to this, that’s assuming they are still the listening party, the next few days should give us a clue.
If I was a tory strategist, I’d be archiving all these tweets for 2021. We are absolutely screwed thanks to these nutters.
Who’da thunk it. The zoomer generation would be the achilles heel.
Good work Stu.
This is a game all the family can play, not just for the kids.
No action from the leadership will speak for itself.
Over to you Nicola
Unapologetically Off-Topic
Corbyn states that an indyref will be his decision and only after a few years of Labour government.
That is dictating to Scots, pure and simple.
As Bakunin said in criticism of Marx and his ideas, all forms of dictatorship seek to perpetuate themselves. That freedom can only come from freedom.
Corbyn’s promise of an eventual independence referendum is not doubtful, it is completely false.
Freedom can only come from freedom.
Vote SNP.
Why publish this a week before the election?
Good piece, Stuart. The absolute denial from some in the comments, after all the work you have put in to working toward independence is as shocking as the twaw chant. Why should I vote or support SNP if the future is further empowerment from the Party of AGP men?
Good work Stu, I’m concerned about the backlash you’re getting for doing this though. The “wheesht for Indy” mob are in full meltdown, and can’t see what’s in front of their noses. The woke vision of Scotland is nothing I want any part of.
@Doug Bryce
“Wings Over Scotland turns against the SNP, in blatant attempt to sow division, 1 week before arguably the biggest election in Scotlands history.
Each to their own : No more donations from me.”
-You think he should ignore it and just pretend everything is fine?
Just maybe the ones sowing division are the people trawling through internet histories for dirt on their opponents a week before the election?
I must be living in a different world from so may on here , but I don’t give a f*ck about any of these ”issues” which appear to be causing so much navel gazing by so ”enlightened” people on here .
Can’t we just have an election and then, afterwards , lock all these people with their ”issues” in a room and let them fight it out without pissing off the vast majority ?
@Charles,
With the benefit of hindsight I most definitely would back him still.
It may be worth noting that Denise Findlay has apologized profusely. She clearly thinks what she did was wrong.
“I am profusely sorry and I now fully understand that what I said was hurtful to the Jewish community. I still believe you should be able to criticise the Israeli government for their actions in Palestine.”
Some of the commenters on this and the previous thread seem to be advocating a three monkeys stance- see no evil, hear no evil and lastly speak no evil.
If you believe in protecting adult human female rights, then you should be condemning the woke as the problem, after all it’s them who trawled to find something to hang on two gender critical SNP members and got them suspended, just before an election.
Just to be clear, I am not and never have been a member of any political party, my vote has gone to the SNP. The woke cult in the SNP, by their actions, are making that ever more difficult.
Alyn Smith. * shiver*
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/1035185/exclusive-im-sorry-snp-member-due-to-probe-anti-semitism-resigns-after-her-own-anti-semitic-posts-exposed/
WHICH she should have done straight away, like Neale Hanvey did.
Antisemitism is just racism ..right ?
It’s racism against Jewish people right ?
Why do so many people use the word Israel when they mean Jewish
Why do so many people use the word Jewish when they mean Israel
Jewish and Israel are not the same
There are many people who have Israeli nationality but they are not Jewish
Jewish is a religion
Israeli is a nationality
It’s a trick by the Israeli government to conflate the two and had led to this situation where people across the world now think Israeli and Jewish are one and the same thing it all helps their plan to reduce Arabs in Israel to zero.
Stop using the word antisemitism and use the word racism instead
No other country uses its religions to deflect criticism in this way
What Israel is doing is trying to brainwash you all into thinking that the Israeli government is a Jewish religion government but please realise there are many many people in Israel who deplore this practice
I think all SNP elected politicians and NEC members should refrain from saying anything about Middle Eastern politics publicly. And it doesn’t matter what side of the arguement you’re on or whether you are right or not. The fact is that getting embroiled in this area of discussion is doing more harm to the independence movement at home than it helps people in that region of the world.
If we gain independence and have a seat at the UN then by all means wade in. But until then best just keep quiet on the subject.
“I’m a bit concerned by these tweets from ‘Leeze’ though. Are you 100% sure they genuine?”
Yes. I saw them on his Twitter timeline myself before he deleted them.
@Bryan Weir,
I read no apology from either Nicholson or McDonald. Then again they are liked and sedn as acceptable by the Woke faction so may not be subject to purges eh?acceptable
Stu – can you also verify Ciaran Jenkins tweet from channel 4 as authentic ? You know the tweet which shows your conflation with Anti Semitism and a secret Trans Army as utter nonsense?
This rammy almost makes you wish for the good old days, when the SNP was a very small party of ‘Tartan Tories,’ who had absolutely no chance of ever holding power.
And we had over 40 ‘Low-Flying Jimmies,’ elected on a Labour platform, standing-up for Scotland at Westminster.
When we took all our orders from Westminster and ‘Nanny’ Thatcher.
As the waiter said to George Best: “Where did it all go wrong?”
Today:
We’ve got a Scottish Parliament.
We have an SNP government.
We have over 40 committed SNP MPs, fighting for Scotland.
And still we are fighting like rats in a sack.
Groundskeeper Willie was right: “Bloody Scots, they’ve ruined Scotland.”
@Pete says ‘ My wife heard the other day from a Holyrood insider that NS is a closet lesbian.
Any truth in this?
Ok, Wings has now converted the entire Daily Mail readership to his website.
See y’all.
See this is why I will never join a political party. Too many arseholes with their own agenda and you get labelled if you don’t agree with them. Fuck them.
Their hypocrisy is astounding and that is why people hate politicians.
“Wings Over Scotland turns against the SNP, in blatant attempt to sow division, 1 week before arguably the biggest election in Scotlands history.”
This, along with the comments by Bryan Weir, above, is merely head in the sand blaming the messager for the message.
It’s not bleedin’ quantum mechanics. You either stand for a set of values or you don’t. It’s not Campbell or anyone else who have publically, through the MSM, undermined their own values and what an Independent nation should stand for by being so blatently craven and hypocritical.
If only for the sake of consistency it is not asking too much to either throw the same level of vitriol at media outlets like the National for reporting the dumping of candidates for expressing what is today (but might not be tomorrow) the “wrong” opinion a few years ago (why not call out the level of research required to dig that up by the way lads?) or at least improve your aim by levelling critique at those whose actions have produced this rather than trying to take out the messangers.
Because this is not just a problem in the SNP.
People are hung out to dry and publically denounced, vilified and ostracised for not just expressing an opinion but for highlighting irrefutable facts and realities whilst actual behaviour involving actions in breach of rules and laws are deliberately ignored. This is endemic across the Party political spectrum – with Boris Johnson’s consistent estrangement from the truth being merely one aspect of this bullshit post-modernist approach.
It’s certainly an approach which is going to lose actual votes from real life people who know bullshit, hypocrisy, double standards and cowardice when its put on display.
Get a bleedin’ grip.
Geeeeeez!
Thanks for that one Stu
soar Alba
@Charles,
Here is my problem. You saY the story is nonsense, and yet we have witnessed factions within the SNP trying go deselect Joanna Cherry for her feminist views
We have had SNP supporters promising to canvas for Labour against Mr Hanvey. We have selected SNP candidates have their twitter history scrutinised and then relorted to the SNP discilinary machinery whilst other SNP candidates with identical socia! media posts are exempted from being reported.
Seems therefore to be targetted against those of a particular view, but for malicious purpose.
Stuart,
I really do think this can wait until 13 December.
Also I agree with you on the distortion of “anti-semitism” to attack non-racists, but it happens I do not agree with you on trans rights. There is a danger of conflating a number of individually complex subjects into a false divide. Applying labels that imply two camps is not necessarily accurate.
Please do some posts on why Scotland should be independent. Nobody is better than you at that.
Who needs unionist plants when you’ve got woke.
This is all very entertaining and clearly a shot across the bows just in case any more de-selections are being contemplated. I don’t think publishing this will make much if any difference for next week – it simply does not have much visibility in the main, as several commenters have pointed out. De-selections are very damaging however and every seat lost is a nail in the coffin of independence.
These two posts clearly weren’t thrown together in a hurry so clearly Wings is playing a longer game. My bet is that it has nothing to with the election and more to do with getting the SNP to clean house ahead of the referendum or possibly the Alex Salmond trial.
You see Stu., as I have said before to some on hear the truth hurts they do not want to face it it’s like what the Jews are doing in Palastine we are not to say or do anything to stop murderand theft just stay mute as someone said about the Jews you are always the victim you are never to blame the truth is wrong is wrong no matter who is doing it Jews or anyone else no fair minded person would disagree with that
Craig Murray is absolutely correct!
I am entirely over the weaponising of the deliberate misconstruing of comments against the actions of the state of Israel as anti-semitism. Fucking over it.
You’d think Israel would know not to do what it’s doing; practicing its own form of Lebensraum but they manage to shut down any dissent with you must hate Jews.
And now you have these woke pricks in the SNP using that weapon to get rid of those who would speak against them.
I am fortunate I’m not in Scotland because for the first time I would find it difficult to vote for them. I campaigned for them while there but I’d be holding my nose to vote this time.
I like Peter Murrell having been him in the dim and distant past (when Alec was the B&B MP) – don’t think I ever met Nicola – but can’t believe the party he’s involved with is doing this now.
They are throwing good people under the bus and those poor saps who got turfed or quit are apologising because… they’ll be crucified. You know they will.
Ach I’m fucking sick of it. Nicola is throwing good people under the bus to let these little snot nosed uni shit woke tossers and aggressively anti-other TRA types run the show. OutforIndy? Out for themselves more like.
Scotland you’re fucked if this is the best you’ve got now.
It was only a matter of before the self serving and parasitic arseholes that bog down and corrupt any endeavour would infiltrate and occupy the SNP.
That’s just the tipping point that happens beyond a certain level of power and size.
Might be worth remembering that Scottish Labour, for all those years of useless corrupt self serving bullshit, were also claiming to be “left wing and socialist” Scots, mainly. They didn’t go away, they just quietly changed stripes and got ‘woke’.
So it should come as no surprise that ‘we’ have our own brand of self immolating, cause destroying idiot.
Stuart was never given the job of unquestioning cheerleader for the SNP, he is doing his job. the value of wings is that it is not bound by any loyalty other than to the cause and achievement of Scottish independence.
The point here is that it needs to be clearly faced as an issue by the SNP, otherwise the media are going to use this to kick the living shit out of them. End of.
For all those males who think GRA is a backburner issue until we see what’s what after the election.
Especially as the ‘threatened’ law change has not occurred yet.
Don’t be so naive!
https://twitter.com/Scottish_Women/status/1198260352821149697
I agree with Craig Murray and those who want to change direction of SNP should have the common sense to wait until 13 December before airing grievances in public or social media
I find this thoroughly depressing. Alyn Smith is my local SNP candidate. I am not a member of any party, but I was delighted he was standing on the basis of his speeches in the European Parliament.
I want Scotland to be independent, but I am genuinely afraid of where this is going to lead. I do not want to give up my vote because women died for the cause.
I will probably vote SNP, but I will do it with a heavy heart, reminding myself that this is not official party policy…yet, and there is no alternative.
I can’t believe it has come to this.
In an independent Scotland I will not vote for any party that supports self ID.
The next holyrood elections will be another dilemma if this isn’t resolved. I just hope common sense prevails.
Boris Johnson will be starting to dismantle free health care in Scotland in just over a week. He’ll also be proceeding with the plan to dismantle Holyrood.
Every seat the Tories lose in Scotland is extra protection for the SNHS. Only the SNP are capable of winning these Tory held seats.
Everyone’s basic rights can all be reconciled with a bit of maturity and common sense.
Concentrate on getting SNP MPs elected first.
Once upon a time, members kept their grievances internal and didn’t shit them all over the Internet. Office bearers could be trusted to be impartial. Policy discussion points were on improving the lives of the many and not the few.
Sigh. Removes Wings badge from lapel where it has been fixed since 2013.
Stirling is a marginal you total fucking arsehole. If the Tories win there I’ll hold you personally fucking responsible. Folk are out in all weather campaigning there for independence and you stab them in the back.
@Craig Murray
Thank God or whatever is your entity or none, for sanity.
So its true Stuart Campbell has finally lost the plot and been exposed as a SiU undercover agent and just before a GE. A bit like Susan Deacon really!
Goodbye “Wings” no more reading this anti -SNP hatred or financial contributions from Me.
A message to every single person on WoS and anyone they know. Never stop criticising the Israeli Government for the barbaric war crimes they commit on a daily basis.(Guilty of War Crimes by the UN).
The land of Palestine is even being eroded from world maps, at the rate the Israeli Government are stealing land it will disappear completely unless decent human beings stand up to them.
In the future “Decent Human Beings” will be called Anti Semitic.
No exaggeration.
Speaking out against proven war crimes is not Anti Semitism.
I have tried linking the “Occupation of the American Mind” link from You Tube, but it never comes on my posts.
Watch it and weep.
And remember this, Smirking Patel will spend money on Israel before a bean is spent in Scotland.
As my wife says, why should she vote SNP or any other party whose aim is going to disenfranchise my daughters.
Its a fair point and when I point out that independence could be at stake she simply shrugs and asks what sort of life our daughters and grandaughters would have in an independent country where males who identified as female were given preference in everything they choose to be involved with at the cost to women.
This is what I am against.
@Gary45%
“And remember this, Smirking Patel will spend money on Israel before a bean is spent in Scotland.”
All the more reason for getting the fuck out of the UK as the top priority.
There is such a topic as an “off the shelf emotive topic” and Israel/Palestine is one of them.
Personally speaking, I want to hear about what matters to the everyday lives of people in Scotland.
For example and in no particular order – Education, Health, Jobs, Law & Order, Transport etc.
I would advocate that any politician that mentions the I & P words should be actively ignored.
It’s just to easy to be a jump-on-the-bandwagon career chasing politician.
Quite a few new names ‘not voting SNP’ popping up on yr twitter. Let’s all just vote Labour or Tory or even Libdem and hope they screw Scotland over again then!
“Might be worth remembering that Scottish Labour, for all those years of useless corrupt self serving bullshit, were also claiming to be “left wing and socialist” Scots, mainly.”
Spot on.
The only question which needs to be put is “does it do what it says on the tin?”. Everything else is just background interference.
It’s also worth repeating – particularly for the hard of thinking in this particular case- that it is the Party leadership who have highlighted these issues and brought them to public attention a week before the election.
One would have thought that those who have a good track record in calling out official hypocrisy and double standards would be capable of distinguishing between those carrying out an act and those highlighting it rather than taking the Tony Blair/Jack Straw approach of ‘now is not the time.’
We are missing the wood for the trees here, guys.
It is far better for the SNP to act first in cases of technical antisemitism, than for the MSM to catch it unresolved.
Technical antisemitism is defined by the IHRA. Saying “but surely this other thing is just as bad” or “but surely the definition should be changed” is irrelevant bullshit. The definition is what it is, and Neale and Denise fell foul of it. The bus was going to roll over them anyway – better to get it over with and move on. Focus on the prize. We all know this is not a fair fight, never has been, but for now we have to play by Westminster’s rules.
Well said Craig Murray.
And Alyn Smith is an absolute star.
Farewell Rev.
Why did all this anti SNP stuff happen days after his last crowdfunder finished?
Never again.
Stu has been got at.
Dave Hansell.
Exactly.
Stu didn’t deselect Hanvey and abandon the people of that constituency.
The First Minister did.
Very publicly days before an election
Blair Paterson @ 1:24:
It’s not “the Jews”, you moron. There are plenty of “Jews” both in and out of Israel who disagree fundamentally with current Israeli government policy in regard to the occupied territories and its mistreatment of the Palestinians. But putting it in the generic way you do, you reveal yourself to truly be what we’ve suspected all along that you actually are. And I don’t just mean piss-ignorant.
Be interesting to read the viewing figures for Wings for December. Through the floor judging by the number of goodbyes I am seeing. Me, I keep coming back with a morbid fascination in the hope things will improve.
Can’t see the next crowdfunder raising much either, so I guess this will be self-limiting and Stu will have to find a job.
Has anyone ever been referred to SNP high heid yins and been cleared or admonished with a straightforward “Get a grip Unionists?”
Seems the first step is “Suspension/Termination” then reflect.
Its all getting quite choppy in those waters…looks like next Friday could be a peak through the fingers job.
This is what happens when a party loses sight of its ONLY reason for its creation:
dissolving the Union.
It’s what happens when a party sees administering the British Empire’s Scotland colony at Holyrood, and sending MPs to the Empire’s UK parliament as the measures of success.
Please vote SNP this time to stop the Empire parties.
Afterwards we all must focus on one policy only: dissolving the Union.
Say goodbye to Wee B!ue book 2 a!l you guys and girls who are leaving. Cause and effect catches us all.
When it came to light that Kezia was in a relationship with an SNP MSP member. The worrying thing for me was that they met on one of these ‘training’ courses for politicians in America.
Why were we sending an SNP politician to this course?
And how many have also been sent to the Friends of Israel jolly’s. Too many to mention from the labour and tory parties.
We have said all along that the SNP cannot afford to have double standards. Except now that appears to be exactly what they are operating.
At heart I’m of a liberal, stand up for equality/human rights type of person…. they are getting something very very wrong when suddenly I’m the baddie.
This is not going away, and when – not if, but – when the MSM start to weaponise this, the SNP will be a ridiculous splintered party, that make the looney left labour party look sensible.
This really has all been done before – with the labour party.
Well done Stu for gathering the evidence. Many of those twitter messages are down right appalling.
I wonder if those who have just been drummed out of the SNP for their philosophical beliefs, while others, with demonstrably worse views/or similarly expressed opinions, are ‘protected’, I wonder if the drummed out ones now have actionable case against the SNP for discrimination?
One thing is clear, there has been extremely poor vetting going on, and inconsistent enforcement of policy, coupled with dubious timing. That buck stops with the leader.
Stu did not create this problem, the leadership of the SNP did and they were forewarned.
I’ll be holding my nose and voting SNP, but the party needs to get this sorted, and soon.
This articles helps us achieve independence by … oh, yeah it doesn’t.
Fancy leaving this debate till another time or push for improvement as you see it (and to be fair, as I do too) from within rather than in the full glare of our enemies – nah, ya don’t? Hmm.
What about pointing out the total shitshow the UK is at the moment and that Indy – irrespective of the nonsense of the lot you’ve highlighted – would be a better outcome? Nah, don’t fancy that either?
Why are you here any more then? You are diminishing and (unintentionally?) dismantling the very purpose you set Wings up for.
@Daisy Walker
Re. Vetting: The Times blocks most of the article in this archived link. Stu did an article a few months back iirc that touched on this and the other deleted online articles around the subject.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190824084910/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/joanna-cherry-snp-mp-in-bullying-inquiry-wanted-to-change-vetting-process-for-candidates-6lsnt8lnr
@Donald,
Independence under what conditions? You are a guy. You will probably be fine. What about the women?
I decided earlier this morning that I coudnae in good conscience cast my vote for Alyn Smith. The notion of a party formed to fight for self determination supporting a racist, colonialist state is beyond a joke. All other parties standing in Stirling are problematic. I’ll be writing in “oppose IHRA definition of anti-Semitism” on my ballot.
“Hello, Daily Mail? Yeah, got a belter for you. Totally SNP bad. No, no need to do any work, all the relevant tweets, posts and articles are collated for you, with additional commentary by – get this – a prominent Indy supporter. Even calls for Sturgeon to resign. Nope, no idea why they’d release this one week before an election. Might even cost them a marginal seat or two. Mad,eh? You really have to wonder. So, anyway, if you could arrange payment into the following bank account…”
@Daisy Walker –
Hear hear.
There’s too much knee-jerking going on. It’s not as if WOS hasn’t been ringing the alarm bell over this stuff for months.
There is no logical inconsistency between voting for SNP next Thursday and being utterly scunnered with the party’s inability to deal with well documented entryism.
So far as any dealings with Israel is concerned, the ‘pragmatists’ can always bleat ‘well, all the other big parties have Friends of Israel groups, so we should too’ – this doesn’t prove that they are grown-up politicos, just that their ‘principles’ are disposable according to circumstances.
Well fuck that.
I too will hold my nose, vote SNP, and continue to persuade the rest of my family to do likewise.
But after this GE there will be a reckoning. Some of those venting their spleen at this site would do well to remember that.
Donald.
The very public abandonment days before the election of the very winnable Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency by the SNP helps us achieve independence by. oh yeah, it doesn’t.
@Geordie,
How much did the call cost you ?
I read a Sun in the supermarket.
Wings is mild in comparison with the Sun in his scalding of the FM. The Sun had SNP baaaad four times on every page. Most if not all of it was total nonsense .
Wings therefore is not nearly as baaaad as the Sun. Points in his favour?
@ Stuart Mackay.1:24.
I tend to agree with you.
Before I noticed a new thread I posted on the last article that the membership needle to get a grip of this. A petition from all the branch’s ordering the leadership to suspend any legislation going forward on self ID until it had been fully discussed and voted on at conference to be included in Holyrood election manifesto for the GE 2021. Also a full enquiry to be initiated, overseen by selected branch members, into the woke witch hunting brigade.
If you’re an active member of an indy group you will know the focus isn’t on political parties. It’s on one thing only – independence – a cause, a purpose. Yes, lots of us are pitching in to the campaign as we see at the moment the best party to increase the chances of Indy is the SNP. I stress – at the moment.
I’d wager very few of these so called “woke” Group have manned stalls, raised funds and gone on marches. Too busy thinking of themselves and naked ambition. Next Friday is a new start and from that good things will come. Don’t shoot the messenger on this ie Stu. I get the distinct feeling there will be changes. But for next Thursday vote snp – then we shall see. (Oh, and naturally neale Hanvey. Good luck to him)
I’m a member of the SNP and certainly not happy about latest suspensions and ‘forced’ resignations. Now seriously thinking of cancelling my membership as I joined under false pretences thinking I was joining a party whose main aim was independence. In the meantime I will still be voting SNP but decidely unhappy about membership. I’ll probably hang on until after the 12th and since I am also a member of a Yes group at least I have a ‘home’ to go to. No wonder I’m depressed and I’m getting too old for this.
Oh dear, I do hope we’re not about to learn a hard lesson. Differences need to be put aside on both sides and Indy needs to be the sole focus.
The leadership need to get a grip on this fast.
Ok please someone tell me, what is the meaning of woke in all these posts?
I tried to post this comment on Wee Ginger Dug but it has been held in moderation for two hours, even though a dozen other comments have appeared since:
Paul,
I have refrained from any public comment on internal Yes movement spats, other than to say in a comment on Wings that surely all of this can wait until after 13 December. And as it happens I agree with you and not with Stu on trans rights.
But may I say that I find your article, which as always is beautifully written and contains a great many sentiments with which I agree, rather creepily over the top in its personalisation of all that is good in the SNP with the Great Leader? At the lowest level of criticism, it is sycophantic. Many unionists – whom we have to win over – frequently complain that they see an authoritarian trend in the SNP and sometimes use the word “cult”. They are wrong, but your level of personalisation here is not healthy in politics.
Written with very genuine respect and friendship,
Craig Murray
Today; men will be digging up the roads in the wind and rain, caring and passionate nurses will be working the hospital wards and teachers will be bursting a gut for the kids in schools. Their graft will help pay taxes to the Scottish Government financing of a giant multi million pound Equality Industry con trick which churns out great swathes of junk science based policy documents, indulging the whims of a tiny fanatical trans movement actively trying to turn social norms up side down. Thankfully we have someone with the bottle like Mr Campbell willing to call out that the Emperor has no clothes. To paraphrase a football chant – “we want our party back … SNP …we want our party back”.
@ Pete
I’ve thought for a long long time that NS is a lesbian and her marriage is simply one of convenience, to look good for the public in the same way that Tory politicians are happily married until they get caught with a rent boy.
I do stress though, that this is my personal belief and have read nothing anywhere to back up my suspicions that NS is compromised and is allowing herself to be manipulated by perhaps more radical factions of the LBG people within the party.
However, the SNP DID get my vote (it’s a postal one, so I can’t be certain) and as others have said even if it comes to it, hold your nose and vote SNP because we simply have no other choice.
VOTE SNP.
And if you happen to be English/live in England, vote Labour.
@Mist001 @12.23pm
Those tweets are genuine. I recall seeing them online, had no idea who account holder was but I knew I didn’t want them on my timeline so I blocked there & then.
This was well before the witch hunts started. I just knew I could not be party to sending out such disgusting messages thus bringing SNP into disrepute.
Quite unbelievable the amount of people blaming Wings for telling the Truth or want the truth hidden from view until 13 December as if that makes it okay. As i understand it, Stu has devoted almost a decade to Independence and always backs up the Wings blog with facts. Some people can’t accept that the current leadership of the SNP and many of its politicians have fallen for this Woke brainwashing. Its not Wings fault, its not the members either and its not the Tories (for once) but the SNP Politicians need to take responsibility for their actions or inactions.
They are two faced if they don’t suspend Smith, McDonald, Henderson and Lawrence for the same reason they did Neale & Denise.
And for any doubters, about Leeze’s posts, I am a CA (retired) and would swear an oath in court that they are genuine and i saw the originals with my own eyes before he/she quickly removed them. Luckily someone took screenshots first.
Nobody can stop anyone voting SNP if Indy means more than the Truth, more than the rights of Women and girls but many like myself, think its too important an issue to ignore. We will get Indy some day but it must be with politicians we can trust who care about Everyone in this country, not just their Trans friends and little Woke gang. We need to be patient. We need to protest by spoiling our ballot papers and send a message to Nicola and the SNP that they can’t take us for granted now or ever. If you ignore women, then you ignore mothers, sisters, daughters that make up 50% of this country.
I think we will now see if the SNP are the new open party of politics they claim to be or will they circle the wagons around their chosen favourites like all the other parties do. I will still vote SNP next week but they need to deliver the referendum next year or something has to change.
This is all very worrying, however, we must not take our eyes off the prize, which is independence.
Even if there’s a small chance that Sturgeon can produce a indyref next year we must support her.
The SNP are just the tip of the spear in the Yes movement, so the desire for independence remains, lets hold fast.
If you can’t put together – pronto – the pieces of the puzzle the BritNazi Establishment has carefully laid down in the past 5 years and see the big picture, you have no chances to survive as an Independent Nation.
Other powerful enemies, much stronger than the BritNazis, are out there to eat you alive.
While the FM, the MPs and MSPs were faithfully recreating the Bravehart “Hold! Hold! Hold!” scene waiting for the frontal impact, the BritNatz have infiltrated the ranks with rabble-rousing, shit-stirring, agitprop sleepers that have now received their marching orders.
The SNP will be eaten from the inside and Scotland will return to be that meek, insipid playground for the Britnazi toffs, bullies and their gamekeepers.
I’m so glad I never took British citizenship and I can fuck the fuck off the morra with a plane from Embra.
You stay here, boiling frogs.
Well said Ian Brotherhood & Daisy Walker.
I would add two things…
Firstly… This isn’t an SNP/Scottish government thing it’s happening all across Western Democracies.
There seems to be big money behind it and it’s some form of social engineering. To what ends I haven’t a clue.
Thankfully some genuine Trans Women seem to be speaking out now ( though tis a pity that they’ve had to give up their privacy to do so) and I’d like to thank them for it,and let them know I’ll always stand up for their human rights.
Secondly…
As other’s have said we HAVE to vote SNP at this election and vote Yes going forward. Westminster will be just as keen to bring this control freakery into law and soon too.
As we all know in the Westminster system Scottish votes don’t count….. The ONLY way to resist or reset this nonsense is to have our own Government in Holyrood.
I do wonder if it’s Nicola’s dependence on the Greens that have forced her down this route? But no matter what’s behind it I’m glad Wings is prepared to call it out.
She will at least not have won this election thinking that she can just push ahead with it and there will be no push back, because everybody just ” loves ” and ” supports ” Nicola Sturgeon so… Thanks Rev…. By Christ ye don’t make it easy but I wouldn’t have it any other way….
So I agree, Israel is an apartheid state and clearly been guilty of war crimes for decades now – that is the unarguable truth.
In criticising Israel, would I have compared them to the Nazis ? – No. The horrific actions of Israel don’t need a qualifier, they are awful enough to stand on their own two feet.
Is the new IRHA definition of anti-semitism a blatant attempt to conflate religion and country so that any criticism of the state of Israel can be called anti-semitism ? -Yes, clearly. just look at Rachel Riley.
Are women’s hard fought rights being thrown under as bus by the SNP ? – Yes, women’s interest groups are clearly being ignored in any supposed ‘consultations’
Are Labour, Lib Dems and Greens as bad as the SNP on ‘gender’ reform – Yes, if not worse.
So the family ( 1 male, 3 Females) has just sat down, had a chat, talked through these issues and our votes and we’ve just burned our polling cards.
Sorry Amanda Burgaer, thats 4 votes less in your campaign against Mundell.
Some issues are too big to ignore. Holding your nose won’t get rid of the guilt felt by betraying those beliefs. Independence for Scotland is also a long held belief, but as I’ve seen literally no campaigning on that issue in my constituency and therefore, we do not think that policy is central to this election.
It would appear that, under ‘license’, those favouring gender self-id, within and without the trans-gender community, have been somewhat successful in undermining the political landscape, while the electorate have been largely unaware of it.
The ‘licence’ is of course the well known position of the SNP establishment being in favour of lgbt-trans.
It must be highly questionable that this position was adopted for sound political reasons, as it favours a minority, and not the opposing majority. It is not unreasonable therefore to think that the SNP stance on these minority ‘rights’ is of a more personal nature. In my view, this aspect of political v personal needs a thorough airing.
As yet, this is not a major issue. At least not yet. But even if it is a tiny crack, it will in due course be ruthlessly exploited and prosecuted by the forces of Unionism, not least through media-borne propaganda, in what is always the first campaign of war.
The Rev has been, and continues to be, a great servant of the Independence cause, and I see no reason to prematurely abandon Wings at this point, before this issue has achieved true clarity and resolution. At first glance, it does appear to threaten the SNP’s performance in the imminent General Election, but that is by no means certain. And England has far far bigger fish to fry right now. After all, this is unquestionably their election, first and foremost.
If there is any underground political movement in Scotland which threatens the independence of Scotland, then we, the general public should know about it, and the sooner the better. And better now, than at the next Holyrood election.
In my estimation therefore, fwiw, I say ‘carry on Stu, keep up the good work.’
I’m opposed to self-ID but I can understand why some people would support it.
For example, Jimmy Saville would have loved the idea.
I guess you would class me as a lurker, have posted a couple times in the years I have been followed this site but rarely do so.
I had been an SNP member for over a decade but today i resigned over the issues brought by Stu in the last few weeks as it has become clear the grass roots are being ignored and any desire for dialogue in social media is struck down and turned against you as if you are the bad guy.
That being the case until independence as the SNP are the apparent best vehicle for us to gain it, I will continue to vote them though I think in Holyrood, my list vote might be more up for grabs than it had been in previous years.
People have commented here that the feel Stu is threatening independence and this is nothing further from the truth as he is as has always has shine lights in areas that need to be shown and I personally thanks him for this
@Corrado,
Agreed. It was lunacy to think the Brjtish State would never infiltrate the SNP given the result of the l ast referendum.
We who look and see what is happening are the ones getting the abuse from dedicated followers of the SNP.
If you truly believe that there are no forces at work within the SNP to discredit them to the voting public you are a fool.
We here are not the enemy. Those lie concealed by SNP colours. It takes but a few in positions of influence to cause damage.
Please guys, what is “woke”?
Thanks
@Graham
According to the urban dictionary: woke is
The act of being very pretentious about how much you care about a social issue
@Liz g,
Liz, the huge lharmaceutical and medjcal interests in America and Europe would make a forgune out of Trans issues. It is the natural succesdor to Cosmetic plastic beauty surgery and even more lucrative. A surefire investment.
Tartanfever @ 3.25
Aw, I’m that sorry that you and the Ladies in you household felt that way Tartanfever.
You see, someone has to win the seat and don’t think for a minute Westminster are not going down this road as well.
To stop it, we,the people of Scotland, have to get control of our politicians and that means bringing them home to Holyrood.
We have to use the current system to effect any kind of change….. So please think again,you don’t need the actual polling cards to vote and despite all of it, vote SNP!
It’s not a sell out,but rather a chance to shape our own system. And don’t forget Wings isn’t the only one watching this,Women’s groups are forming and Canada is making a lot of information about their experience of it public so we don’t need to buy into the try it and see narrative!
Joan McAlpine thinks Leeze is racist and mentaly ill – https://twitter.com/joanmcalpine/status/1142379618005127168?lang=en
It’s worth noting that Joan McAlpine thinks Leeze is racist and mentally ill – https://twitter.com/joanmcalpine/status/1142379618005127168?lang=en
@Corrado Mella –
Hear hear.
‘Are you now or have you ever been a gender critical feminist?’
We are so close to that point now – anyone pretending otherwise is guilty of wilful ignorance or is complicit in a McCarthyist project to scupper indy.
What has been done to Neale Hanvey and Denise Couper is reprehensible and the leadership is damned by its silence. Meanwhile, we have party ‘stalwarts’ such as Mhairi Hunter and Rhiannon Spear point-blank refusing to acknowledge the genuine concerns raised by the Spectator article published on Dec 2nd:
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/12/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/
The ‘anti-semite’ card is only ever played in extremis, by very powerful players, when all other avenues for blackmail/intimidation have been exhausted or found baseless. Those who cannot or will not face up to this most unpleasant of facts have no right to pontificate to the rest of us. (Watch out for Rev Stu being next up for that particular accusation.)
As for those cutting up their SNP membership cards and/or getting in a lather over this and the previous WOS post – fill yer boots. Just be sure and vote SNP all the same. We can all knock the seven bells out of each other day-in, day-out, between next Friday and indy2.
(PS Corrado – hope you change your mind about leaving Scotland but I wouldn’t blame you for getting out. In any event, good luck.)
😉
The sooner people ditch these frauds the better.
I will now summarise any possible replies to what ive said to save some of you typing and me from having to read them:
Woke, progressive, low-IQ do-gooder 1 says – ‘Oh, and sacrifice our chance at independence’? Hm? You evil unionist troll!’
Woke, progressive, low-IQ do-gooder 2 says – ‘Yeah. Its all just propaganda. Joe is an MI5 person. Oh, and I can’t believe the Rev would criticise a seriously unpopular and unnecessary policy from the SNP that shits all over women rights. That kind of criticism of the SNP is damaging indy!’
Woke, progressive, low-IQ do-gooder 3 says – ‘I know. The SNP just need a near clean sweep and cast iron mandate and it will be indy for us! Because they’ve never had that before obviously! Why don’t you just leave us alone, yoon’
Ok, so I am actually trolling now. Wont happen too often I promise.
Bob Mack @ 3.38
Yes they would Bob,life time patients and guinea pigs. It’s a plausible enough theory. One of many I’m afraid.
Replacing the Religions as a population control!
A distraction from what Governments/Corporations are really doing.
To the very wild…. Reducing women’s rights to increase the white western birth rate.
Who really knows?
One thing I’m pretty sure of though, it’s definitely no about helping Trans People!
@Liz G,
Good article about it in The Federalist who investigated Trans funding. (cant archive if). Revealing indeed.
There are newspaper stories of Leeze and 5 others being in a car with allegedly a load of money and heroin.
The only one of the group to get charges dropped was Leeze, go figure
“… right now the party is becoming more of a roadblock than a routemap.” I quit the SNP because of their expulsion of Grousebeater. I read what he wrote. I’m knowledgeable about antisemitism and I know he did not write anything antisemitic. Now they’re continuing to persecute members who do not toe the line of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. I would no longer be eligible to be a member of the SNP because I do believe that the modern state of Israel is behaving towards the Palestinian people like the German Nazis behaved towards the Jews.
I’m no longer sure that I would like to live in independent Scotland if its politics become so intolerant!
The pursuit of a S30 Order is another is another problem for me. The current Manifesto says, “In order to put a referendum beyond legal challenge, we will seek a transfer of power, such as a section 30 order under The Scotland Act.” How significant is the words “such as”? Does this mean that they no longer consider an S30 to be the only legal means to hold a referendum? Are they prepared to use International Law as an internationally legal means of gaining independence? I hope so!
” Graham says:
5 December, 2019 at 3:33 pm
Please guys, what is “woke”?”
Its the new “politically correct” is the short answer.
The trans cult in the snp is nothing more than a fifth column operation.
Many of these issues with the SNP are not new. This is a letter I wrote to my branch secretary last time my SNP membership was up for renewal:
…”..My membership was due for renewal in January. I delayed renewal for a number of reasons.
I was unhappy with the party’s wholesale and uncritical adoption of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, together with all the “instances” which have been added to the core text – and which have been criticised by the very author of the core text. Some of these “instances” are highly political in nature and are designed to prevent what I regard as justified criticism of the state of Israel’s expansionist and ethnic cleansing policies and advancement of an apartheid state with the creation of second class citizens.
I was also unhappy earlier with the readiness with which the leadership allied itself almost immediately with the Westminster version of events in connection with the Skripal affair and the anti Russian narrative – in advance of any evidence. There was outright evidence-free and premature condemnation of Russia – completely unnecessary at the time – when a conditional statement ( ie “if the evidence shows…’ ) would have been both prudent and appropriate. I joined Twitter specifically to make these points to both Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford. All we have learned since drives a horse and cart through the duplicitous Westminster and Security services narrative.
I was not happy with the virtual absence of independence campaigning during the 2016 general election, particularly since the opposition parties made anti-independence virtually the whole basis of their campaign. I would have wished for a strong pro-independence stance to point up and promote the advantages of independence to counter this. Instead, the word “independence” was virtually erased from the campaign.
I am unhappy with the party’s adoption of self identification of gender – and the easy dismissal of concerns raised by many women about their own rights and privacy being threatened.
I was unhappy with Nicola Sturgeon’s handling of the Alex Salmond affair. I recognise that her position was difficult, but the strength of her expression of confidence in the civil service officials, their actions and the policy drawn up by them was misplaced – and as the subsequent court case illustrated, misguided.
Some of the above are criticisms of policies adopted by the party: some of strategy. However, you did say you would be glad to hear about any issues I have and these are some of the things behind my hesitation to rejoin. I believe that Nicola Sturgeon is an excellent operator – particularly in reactive situations. I do not think that strategy is her strong point – and we might need someone like Joanna Cherry with the drive and inspiration to take us over the finish line. Just my opinion.
In spite of the above, I believe that the SNP is the only party capable of delivering independence. I believe that SNP MSPs ( certainly those I know and have met) are capable, principled and have the best interest of Scotland’s citizens at the centre of their activities. The SNP’s portfolio of achievements and progressive policies in many areas has been impressive. The other parties pale in comparison. My hesitation to renew membership was not because I am tempted by other political parties – more perhaps to my questioning whether I wished to belong to a political party at all – particularly given my reservations expressed above.
I do, however, intend to rejoin the organisation to support the Independence initiative…”
I did renew my membership. However, I have seen little in recent months to change my mind on any of the above – quite the reverse. I will however, vote SNP next Thursday as it is the only chance of unseating Jo Swinson.
Whether I decide to continue to be a member of the SNP or not at renewal time is in the balance. Whatever the decision, I will continue to support Independence for Scotland and my voting pattern will reflect this. Until another viable independence party comes along, it will have to be the SNP.
@ Patsy Millar at 2.50 [or so]. Please don’t leave the SNP party. It will take all we sensible people to work on this self-id issue at our branches.
I raised it a few weeks ago and found that no-one else in my branch, including a county councillor, knew anything about the GRA. So that is something.
When this election is over we must all raise this and the Neal Hanvey and other cases at our branches. That is surely the only way to make an effective difference?
On the topic of Sturgeon resigning :
1) I don’t think its healthy for any party to have a husband & wife team in control of the political and management aspects – not sure that’s ever ended well;
2) I’m “on record” on various blogs’ comments as stating I don’t believe there will be another plebiscite on independence while Sturgeon is in control. The only exception maybe if the blonde buffoon overplays his hand in stripping powers from Holyrood & Sturgeon is left with no option;
3) For the next week they’re the only game in town so vote SNP. Then see what happens but really no indyref2 before 2021 breaks too many promises and that’s the “red line” many here have because of previous ambiguous statements from Sturgeon.
YMMV of course.
@Graham
‘Woke’ originally referred to taking the Red Pill and waking up to face unpleasant reality instead of taking the Blue Pill and going back to woo-woo land. Obviously Matrix-inspired, and with real grass-roots popularity (or populism, as it was generally the epitome of). Typically, red-pilled people were those who did not swallow the lies about the wonders of mass-immigration and multiculturalism, who saw the future being callously shaped by banking cartels and multinational businesses. They also didn’t approve of the apparent preponderance of heebs in the media and entertainment.
Then it was eventually neutered and became a synonym for climate change and trans activists, with little sign of any grass under foot. Basically, it changed from a somewhat dark and rebellious badge of pride into an insult, and a way of ‘othering’ the labelled. Red-pilled people are now referred to as ‘Incels’ (involuntarily celibate).
Thanks Graham &Graham – always wondered exactly what “woke” meant.
Re anti- semitism, I thought that treating someone differently because of their ethnicity was classed as racism. I appreciate that the Jews, and some others, suffered appalling abuse during the holocaust, but the state of Israel has succeeded in weaponising this abuse and using it to excuse its own crimes. It is a remarkable example of the capture and brainwashing of a society /civilisation.
If it invades like a Nazi, ghettoises and inflicts group punishment like a Nazi, and exalts and exceptionalises it’s own race (think”Aryan”) like a Nazi, maybe it is a Nazi? Even considering that possibility makes you anti Semitic, by definition. Farewell free speech and intellectual honesty. Here’s a radical tip – if you don’t want to be likened to the nazis, don’t act like them!
I understand that a significant percentage of Israelis have grave concerns over the conduct of their government – like us and the Iraq war – maybe they are also anti Semitic?
Just in passing I note that the Palestinians are also a Semitic people, but perhaps Israel has copyrighted that term?
I also wonder how long this “free pass” excusing Israel from acting like a civilised member of the international community is planned to last? We are coming up on 75 years since the war ended – will it be 100 years, or 500, or 1000?
Stuart,
Best song ever was ‘Bannockburn’. Like to see new version. Lived in England most my life. (Union Flag family. Me Scot, wife NI , daughters NI & England)
Regards Dougie (working M.East 12 years)
Or, as Vestas astutely wrote, ‘It’s the new “politically correct.”‘
The opposite of what it once was.
I’ve been an SNP supporter all my life boohoohoo
But I can’t take anymore boohoohoo
Reading WOS story today boohoohoo
I agree
I’m never ever ever going to vote SNP again
I’m now against Scottish independence
I will vote Tory from now on boohoohoo
NAH..that’s just a load of old guff just like so many of the nutters posting on here today
Here’s the truth
I will vote SNP
I will forever vote SNP until we get Scottish independence at which point completely new political party’s will emerge and I will review matters
But for now
I will vote SNP no matter who the leader of the SNP is
and that’s because I’m voting for Scotland’s independence
and not for the actual leader
or for some other political policy
Gender self ID comes way below other things in my priorities such as
Housing our people in Scotland in warm comfortable affordable houses with a garden
Abolishing all austerity ensuring everyone has heating on in their house and enough food and warm clothes
Ending sanctions on those who are unemployed
Ending the free stuff that rich people get from the state
Seeking out all those property owners who gain income from rent but do not declare it to the tax office
Land reform that returns ownership of Scotland’s land to the people of Scotland ensuring that nobody can own land unless their main home where they live for most of the year is in Scotland
Increasing wages paid to people at the bottom end
There’s more but these are more important issues affecting many many more people in Scotland than gender self ID
I have supported the SNP in every election since I could vote. I am in my sixties and would like us to achieve Independence before I die. Does all this infighting help ? Doubt it. This sight has been great for facts, figures and information until Kezia Dugdale. Since then articles and comments seem to be moving against the SNP and our chance of gaining independence. Really strange that just as victory seems close supposed supporters start stabbing the SNP leaders and organisation in the back. Makes you wonder who actually you can depend on for unbiased information supporting the ’cause’
Surely the smart move is to get Independence then the government we vote for and all the scrutiny of its policies to make Scotland the country we want. Trying to destroy the only party that can gain us independence seems odd and worrying from a site that claims to be promoting Scottish Independence.
Something is wrong on here and it’s not just the SNP to blame for this deliberate and vindictive distraction.
On Topic: Everyone, read Wee Ginger Dug’s blog today.
Basically, as many others have said, we must vote SNP to demonstrate that Scotland is different. We want the Welfare State and workers rights. So does Nicola. She is the best of the leaders at the moment.
Now is not the time to be falling out on anything.
No time for all these woke alphabettys who think their rights are the only ones that matter.
He she it. Its that simple and has been since before I was in P1 nearly 70 years ago.
Women are entitled to safe spaces. If trannies want safe spaces then go build your own, organise your own sports and Olympics and let’s all have a good laugh.
The Kinks had it right: Lola!
Sarah @ 16:26,
You are so very right. Proud self-declared SNP members who care about the issue so very, very much that they are =ahem= just giving up and walking away? I’m not a member of any party, but that doesn’t make any sense to me.
That would seem to indicate either an extraordinary lack of commitment combined with an extraordinary excess of immaturity, or alternatively just electoral PR monkey business: “I’m an SNP member but… ”
The timing of all this is highly inappropriate, since by the very evidence of these self-identifying dropouts, it actually serves to enable the same kind of pusillanimous self-harm that cost us so much unnecessary lost ground in 2017. Do we want a repetition of this, navel-gazing losers?
Which applies most pertinently of all to those within the SNP who are deliberately choosing to backstab their own side rather than direct all their energies against the real BritNt opposition at this highly critical juncture. And who do need to be called out on their minority fixations before it all gets completely out of hand.
But leave it off for this week, please. It’s not helping. It can safely wait a few more days to see how the post-election debris settles.
Can of worms and other bottom feeders, don’t excuse the pun. Anyway basically the two candidates should be reinstated to the party pronto to maximise seat win on 12th.
Anything else is numpty and navel gazing.
(no animal has been harmed during the writing of this post.
No racist or antisemitic words have been used either. Some Scots language has been used in true sense. I am a Scot by birth.)
I’ve enthusiastically voted SNP at every election since 1997. This time I feel like I’m lending them my vote.
If I was in Glasgow South I’m not convinced that a vote for the SNP candidate would be a vote for independence.
I’ve suspected the SNP of being under attack from within, for some time now. Too many professional politicians, with strong oppinions but little practicle insight. The First Minister included.
THE POLITICS OF REASON: CRITICAL LEGAL THEORY
AND LOCAL SOCIAL THOUGHT
https://scholarship.law.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4036&context=penn_law_review
Saddened to read this post.
I am with Wee Ginger Dug as he said today:
“I support Nicola Sturgeon because all paths to an independence referendum must cross the bridge of next week’s General Election, and it is vital to our movement, to the hope of this nation, that the SNP do well in that vote. Because if they don’t, we won’t be hearing from the British press that people in Scotland haven’t voted SNP because of disagreements about self-ID, because of disputes about internal party handling of accusations of anti-semitism, because of arguments on Twitter about the best way to get another referendum. All we will hear is that Scotland doesn’t want another referendum, and the independence cause will be lost.”
I’ll be voting SNP next week.
Wings has become increasingly obsessed with the trans debate, to exclusion of any other politics.
The Scottish Government has published DRAFT legislation which is for open, public consultation on gender recognition. Trans people have suffered massive discrimination, stigma and the current legal framework perpetuates this. Anyone who is for all human rights must support change and better support, solidarity and respect for trans individuals.
I deplore what does seem like a cliquey, internal factional damaging campaign by some who are pro-trans rights and place that above all else or independence to attack those who have legitimate doubts and questions. It does seem that Hanvey and Denise and others have been targeted by this internal faction in – and that faction seems to take pleasure in damaging the SNP just ahead of an election.
Some of the social media posts of this faction positively exulting in negative coverage of the SNP yesterday was pretty repulsive.
Wings sadly is now little different
Wings rather than focusing on independence has become obsessed with trans issue, often using obscure, silly examples to further an anti-trans agenda, in same way that homophobes used isolated/ unusual examples in 1950s/ 60s to attack gay rights
Wings time will probably now be up; no longer a force or even analyst for Indy and Yes, now just a self obsessed, trans obsessed, negative presence on the web, doing debasing tit-for-tat nonsense with LGBTI and Trans supporters
@Old Pete,
You exemplify the problem. The Rev is simply highlighting problems that now exist within the party.
If there were no problems he could not highlight them. Yes ?xe
Stu did not create them. They are all SNP made.
Yes it does seem to be that you are anti Semitic if you
Mention what you can see in Israel’s mirror?
All normal people we sympathetic to what had happened
In the horror camps of world war 2 but it didn’t give the Jewish
Community to destroy the country of Palestine.
With the Israel now building settlements on land captured in
The 1967 war they now consider it legal to control and take anything
That they want from the country next door and justify it.
Sound familiar Westminster!
Like wee ginger dug, I too will be voting for the SNP, and will encourage others to do so.
People, including some very influential online folk are getting played over this gender business.
Do not let the 77th brigade and their unionist enablers win. Those folk doing the anti SNP shouting will suddenly disappear on December 13th. They will literally vanish.
All parties have issues. I genuinely do not think things are so bad, as some say. Their is an unhealthy obsession with gender, whist kinds go hungry and an out of control far-right extremist Tory Government in England runs amok.
Do not be played. Vote SNP. The gender issue is a fight for another day.
“If it invades like a Nazi, ghettoises and inflicts group punishment like a Nazi, and exalts and exceptionalises it’s own race (think”Aryan”) like a Nazi, maybe it is a Nazi?”
Does it:
1). Build camps with showers and gas and gates and railway entering the camp
2). Take men women and kids and put them into cattle trucks in trains
3). Take them to a camp, remove their gold teeth, put them in showers for a wash and gas them instead
4). Burn them
or 5). Force labour, medically experiment on them without their permission
6). Do that to 6 million of them in about 10 camps
7). A whole agony of other things
Well?
Graham,
`Woke` originally comes from the African American civil rights movement,
the question they asked other African Americans was,
” have you woken up to what the white man has been and is still doing to you”
which was shortened to “are you Woke”
but `liberal whitey` decided that they to must be Woke and then took over (infested) the whole civil rights movement and then dumped it for other concerns like Gay and Climate things,
so being `Woke` became to mean concerned white liberals that jump on and infest any movement that is currently hip to be in,
basically rich white concerened c@nts that are looking for a cause to show they care while still being rich and white.
@tartanfever at 3:25 pm
“So the family ( 1 male, 3 Females) has just sat down, had a chat, talked through these issues and our votes and we’ve just burned our polling cards.
Sorry Amanda Burgaer, thats 4 votes less in your campaign against Mundell.”
Hey tartanfever, this is without a doubt a highly emotive subject for so many people. That is undoubtedly why it has been allowed and facilitated by some big money backers to become so prominent.
It’s not unlike the UKIP situation where they were given a disproportionately large platform to spout their pish as opposed to say the Green Party with their environmental concerns.
You’ve burnt your polling cards as a statement. Fair enough. But you can still vote without them.
I can only ask that your family reconsider and hold your nose like so many other conflicted Indy supporters at this time, because until we reclaim our democratic ability to elect and remove individuals that either do or do not represent our wishes we’ll be stuck in this toilet bowl getting dizzy as we go round in circles slowly down the pan, flushed away for ever into the history books.
We have to drain the swamp and free ourselves from this political impotence we suffer from whilst we’re stuck in this undemocratic union that is the UK.
An Indy Scotland will at least allow us far more opportunity to steer our society on our own preferred expressed trajectory, rather than our current political ineffectual status.
We can sort this, don’t succumb to disillusionment over this single issue. It’s absolutely a very important matter, but there are many others that it’s imperative we keep in mind, such as our future energy potential, our free at point of need health service to name but a couple.
These will be trashed if we release any tension on the pathetic semblance of reigns we currently have over the individuals who have engineered the coup that is taking place in the UK at present.
Dear Stuart
Since 2014, I’ve been a big Wings supporter since discovering your incisive and meticulously researched articles had the lying tabloids and the Better Together squad on the run. I put aside your flawed position on Hillsborough and told YES supporters who voiced their distaste to try to read the message and not the messenger. Your retorts to drivelous tweets from the likes of History Woman were delicious.
But that was in the good old days, before Dug-Gate and your displeasure that the SNP hadn’t considered your campaign to deliver Indy your way, and not how it’s currently being pursued. When your former torch bearers looked at your plans for a Wings party and said “Nah”, and laterally, your obsession with gender identity. Whether you’re right or wrong is not what most YES folk are currently up a ladder, placing atop their Indy Christmas tree. Everything’s up for debate, I’ve been vegetarian 30 years and vegan for the last 2 of those, I don’t think animals should be slaughtered and eaten – for all of the reasons – but I still hand out leaflets from ‘Scotland The Brand’ that fights for all our food producers. Maybe in an indy Scotland, I can refocus on these issues or something else but right now, I want us all to pull together, we have the moral high ground with the figures (thanks to you in large part) to back it up. Any distraction from that has the potential to water down and obfuscate the argument. God knows we spend enough time going over and over the same arguments with people that were debunked (many by you) since #indyref1.
Today’s article, has brought you to my door. I live in Stirling. Alyn Smith is the prospective SNP candidate for the GE. The SNP are fighting a Tory majority of just 148 votes. My hope is that those Stirling voters who thought Labour were a good bet last time (epic fail) or couldn’t face the weather and stayed at home (Tory voters may have done the same, difference being they’d already got their postal votes in!). If Alyn Smith can’t win here, then I’m not sure that’s a great barometer for Scotland or for independence.
So,thanks for pushing the Stu Campbell agenda ahead of the one for independence(!) Remember that one? The one you used to work hard for? The massively effective one that armed us with a stack of statistical ammunition and info? The Wee Blue Book one? The one I gifted money to so you could keep doing it? The one I hoped my last donation would result in a WWB2? On the face of it, today’s article looks like an attack on two SNP candidates – including ours – but it plays out like the tabloid stories you used to pull apart like so much tissue paper. Neither of these men have said anything anti-Semitic – you also agreed with them – but to the lay person, on the face of it, it’s an attack and anything that the opposition can potentially use against us isn’t great (“look, even Wings is having a go, must be bad, we can use that!”). I don’t want to curb your free speech but just like at granny’s funeral, splitting up the contents of her house is usually kept for another day.
Stirling’s priority right now, is to rid itself of a useless Tory MP whose self-confessed ‘highlights’ include the otherwise councillor role of installing dropped kerbs. My wife is a wheelchair user, I’m sure wherever he’s put them could be helpful but let’s not allow that good deed to bury his ignoring 70% of his constituents who voted to Remain that he claims “just want [him] to get on with it” every time his grinning face appears near a TV camera. Not to mention Universal Credit which has arguably claimed the lives of so many and which he appeared to label at recent hustings as “trial and error”.
148 votes Stu. Who’s next, Stephen Gethins FFS?!
Articles that wander off into ‘Wings Over StuLand’ are at best unhelpful and at worst, disastrous to the very cause that you support. Nothing you are doing currently is forwarding the cause of independence.
You’ll probably tell me to “F*ck off”, which is fine, that’s to be expected. I might print it out and frame it but for pity’s sake Stu, in the best possible way, please, pretty please, pretty please with sugar on top, get back to what you were doing so well before and help us, not hinder.
Regards, Greg
What a mess. I left the party before all this kicked off so won’t be getting involved thank god.
I will be voting Neale Hanvey and actually it’s much easier to do so now!
If U.K. SS (that’s secret service btw!!) are involved then by god they are good!
Anyway, what a mess.
Ayrshire Scot
You quote the WGD’s love letter to Nicola Sturgeon
including
… all paths to an independence referendum must cross the bridge of next week’s General Election, and it is vital to our movement, to the hope of this nation, that the SNP do well in that vote
A pity she sold the winnable constituency of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath down the river to placate her transactivists.
Be funny if the SNP find themselves one short of holding the balance of power.
Even funnier if Neale Hanvey got elected and held the balance of power of the balance of power.
Its enough to make you smoke in the workplace.
https://twitter.com/veneskybrown/status/1202198923936440320
I’ll be voting SNP until independence is delivered as they’re best placed to deliver it. Once that happens, THAT’S the time to start examining other issues and voting accordingly. Stay focussed!
I would just like to emphasise that Neale Hanvey was targeted before the anti-semitism accusations. Here are the facts:
->Lesley Laird has a majority of just 259 votes.
->The Green Party have never before fielded a candidate at the Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath General Election nor in a Scottish Parliament Election. NEVER.
->Until now there had only been one option if one wanted to vote for a pro-indy party – the SNP.
->Fielding a GP candidate will remove votes from the SNP. This has happened elsewhere and is not news to anyone who follows Scottish politics. Now normally, this would not matter if the majority to defend or overcome runs to thousands of votes – under those circumstances, the few people who vote Green do not even register in the prize fight between SNP and Unionist parties.
->The Green Party have zero chance of winning the Kirkcaldy seat. Their vote share will in all likelihood be behind the SNP, Labour and the Conservatives, possibly even the LibDems.
->With a majority of 254 and an expected vote share for the Greens of a few hundred, their fielding of a candidate alone sabotaged the chances of returning a pro-indy MP to Westminster.
->Although this is perfectly within their rights, the Greens do not normally do this in tight SNP vs Unionist fights where they are not in second position or a three-way fight. It’s why they don’t stand in Kirkcaldy and many other seats. They did so on this occasion because Neale spoke up for women’s rights. We know this because the Greens were very open about opposing Neale’s candidacy because of his recent advocacy for a reasoned debate and listening to women’s concerns.
On the comments about social media – I agree that all candidates should have social media training and any party should agree a code of conduct specifically for this purpose which candidates will be measured against. I disagree that the vetting failed in Neale’s case.
Those opposed to upholding the existing legal rights of women trawled through his social media accounts, where he’s been on FB for 8 years and on Twitter for 9. They found a total of 2(!) posts to weaponise against him.
The article itself is not antisemitic, it doesn’t even mention that Soros is Jewish. The picture is not of Soros controlling world leaders btw but Soros controlling the leaders of the US Democrat Party, which is what the article was about – a leak of thousands of documents supposedly showing Soros dictating policy to Clinton and Obama through a number of organisations.
It’s in my view an incredibly stupid article and totally daft to share it – no analysis, nothing there at all worth looking at and designed only to malign Hilary Clinton and sabotage her campaign for president. Which is probably why this got shared around the left-wing cyber sphere and why Neale shared it, too. It was evidence of anti-Clinton sentiment, nothing more.
Nobody has printed what the second alleged post actually said, but Neale explained to us at the hustings that he wrote it in the context of having watched countless Palestinian children and teenagers being killed at the time. Context is what the IHRA definition declares to be the deciding factor in determining whether something is evidence of anti-Jewish prejudice or not.
Neale criticised the Israeli government of the time for committing atrocities against the Palestinians. He did not conflate the Jewish people with the actions of the Israeli state. He did not deny its legality or condemn its existence, he did not send abuse to individual Jewish people either. He did IIRC liken these specific human rights violations of the Israeli state with those of Hitler’s Nazi state though. Is this evidence of anti-Jewish prejudice? Not in my view. Was it stupid to make that comparison? Yes, in my view it was. Neale was already a politician at the time and should have picked his words more carefully. This is why he apologised for the post and rightly so. His apology should not be misconstrued as an admission that he is an anti-semite and guilty of anti-semitism. It is an admission that the post was insensitive and hurtful to members of the Jewish community in Scotland. We can inadvertently hurt others without being hateful to or prejudiced about them.
Furthermore, Scotland did not adopt the guidelines including the example of comparisons with Nazi Germany until a full year later. I do believe this should be taken into account when investigating the allegations.
But what bugs me the most about Neale’s case and that of other recently dropped candidates – suspending people for things they said (not did) years ago assumes that we are static beings. That what we believed then is what we believe now. That we are not capable of learning and growing and making mistakes and owning up to them and then doing better. It’s not how human beings work, it’s not how society works. Proceeding along this path will not be good for democracy either.
How to vote instruction:
1. Hold nose
2. and vote fecking SNP!
(after taking considerable and considered council from this column)
It’s certainly the case that the whole politico-media circus is becoming increasingly strident and puerile, and many actors are quite prepared to use the most inflammatory nd derogatory accusations to further what they perceive to be their good. What is to be done?
Having seen the efficacy with which the Corbyn tendency in the Labour party are smeared and hobbled by the anti-Semitism charges I think that to rise to the bait so close to an election is probably an error. I would support the individuals involved as individuals but resign myself to the fact that this kind of mud-slinging must be quarantined quickly without reference to the unfairness and hypocrisy.Then pick a fight when not so much is at stake, because the woke brigade as you point out, do not have much to lose except for their public persona. Never get personal with narcissists they like it…
To the people condemning Stuart Campbell and THREATENING him with withdrawal of funding , I say SHAME ON YOU , you were all happy , supportive and revelling in righteousness when he was EXPOSING the corruption and lies of the other parties but as his pinned tweet on his twatter page says ” If you only like the truth when it’s a truth you like , YOU DON’T LIKE THE TRUTH ”
I don’t like this exposure of the SNP’S dirty washing or the timing of it but if it FORCES the high heid yins to recognise that what is happening is DESTROYING the party from within then it may SAVE itself , if they continue ignoring the problem THEY and US will reap the repercussions
I personally sent emails to very many SNP MSP’S , MP’S and Nicola Sturgeon including screenshots of vile and despicable tweets from these and other individuals claiming to be officials within the SNP and SG , I commented on their disgusting vile behaviour and opined that this was unacceptable and SNP damaging behaviour and asked if in their opinion this was acceptable , I have NEVER received ANY response from any of them including the FM
As many have commented this COULD have been orchestrated and designed by the establishment to SCUPPER the SNP and indy but in saying that the SNP have fully and eagerly embraced this extremely contentious impactful policy without careful and due consideration of the consequences to the female members of our society
One of the reasons I CRAVE independence is to have Scottish governments who ANSWER to the electorate not to dictate their beliefs on the electorate , we have enough experience of that
So DON’T go BLAMING Stuart Campbell for this gigantic clusterfuck put the blame where it belongs , on the SNP HIERARCHY’S FAILINGS
Jo Swinson’s into this subject too.
Jo Swinson on twitter
04/12/2019, 13:52
We will completely reform of the Gender Recognition Act, removing the requirement for medical reports, scrap the fee and recognise non-binary gender identities.
#GenderRecognition #BrighterFuture #GE2019 ??@LibDems??
libdems.org.uk/plan
@twathater
Nobody owes Stu money. If they feel he no longer represents their views or interests, they are perfectly entitled not to participate in future fundraisers.
Well said Ayrshire Scot @ 5.20 above.
This link was on Indyref2.space earlier this week. Written by an Arab Muslim. What goes on atm between Israel and Palestine is very complicated and not the fault of one side only. And what we read here in the west about how it is all the fault of Israel is not always the truth.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/13572/palestinians-anti-semitic-stereotyping-of-jews
“Abbas and the Palestinian leadership are clearly trying to drag Israel into a religious conflict with all Muslims, not only Palestinians. The Temple Mount has become their favorite platform for disseminating blood libels and fabrications against Israel and Jews.”
“This Palestinian incitement and cynical exploitation of a holy site to spread lies and blood libels and stereotype Jews is barely noticed by the mainstream media in the West.”
I have good Jewish friends who live in Israel.
To all those asking ‘why post this a week before an election?’
Or ‘This is supposed to be an independence site’
Or ‘Stu is flipped and he’s damaging independence’
No. YOU are the problem, YOU.
This has been going on for *months* with many of us expressing concerns about;
– the erosion of Women’s rights by badly formed GRA proposals conflicting with Women’s rights and safety
– the introduction of very alarming changes in guidence about LGBTQ issues In primary and secondary schools that weren’t sanctioned by official cttee and education secretaries
– key posts for Women’s Convener and Equalities Convener going to people who specifically prioritise Trans Rights *above* Wonens rights and are none to shy in demonstrating that
– Shirley Anne Somerville announcing to Aberdeen Pride that GRA reforms would happen regardless of public opinion
– Proposals for same sex wards in the Scottish NHS happening despite risk to Women’s safety and against public opinion
– the party SNP and MSP en nasse ignoring the Women’s Pledge which restated and protects *existing* sex based protections for Women under the equalities act 2010
At each of these, certain people have protested but got shouted down with others bleated ‘Dinnae rock the boat’ or ‘lets get Indy first’. Your silence, inaction and reluctance to speak out has been an absolute GIFT to the activists mentioned in this article, who have been emboldened to ramp up their attack on the party to gain power and act unfettered. They have fiddled whilst Rome burned, until they have amassed such jnfluence that they got an actual fucking MP candidate deselected!
Neale Hanvey was targeted for signing the Women’s Pledge.
Denise has been targeted for signing the Women’s pledge!
The trans rights activists openly tried to Get Joanna Cherry deselected!
We’ve been writing and emailing Nicola and Peter and nothing has happened. Nothing.
Denise has been targeted to get her off the conduct committee so accusations can now be made against others candidates, MPs, MSPs who stand up for Women’s rights can be accused, found guilty and chucked out.
Denise was immediately replaced by a trans rights activist.
What is it going to take for some of you to wake the fuck up and realise our beloved Party has been taken over, in key positions and functions by careerists whose main aim is NOT Indy but the further advancing of their tesns rights activists agenda?
The activists are using your fear and intertia against you and taking you for complete fucking idiots.
For the vast majority of the population, the term “nazi” conjures up Hitler and the attempt to exterminate and slaughter masses of the Jewish people based on a belief that they threatened the ‘purity’ of the Aryan race and the economic stability of the state. In common parlance, the term is also associated, with overarching superiority. ruthlessness and fanatical adherence to dogma/ dictatorial pronouncements. There is universal recognition that what happened to the Jewish people in Nazi Germany were horrific atrocities.
However, the state of Israel has in its relatively short existence inflicted many atrocities on the Palestinian people. It is an apartheid state with “second class” Palestinian citizens: it has “kettled and walled in Palestinians in ghettoes like Gaza, confiscated land and property, destroyed infrastructure and livelihoods, imposed economic blockades causing impoverishment and poor health, engaged in deliberate and premeditated killings, targeted shelling of civilian areas causing many thousands of deaths.
There are many similarities – and few differences apart from scale – between the ways in which Jewish people were treated in Nazi Germany and the way in which Palestinians have been – and are being – treated by Israel. This is particularly poignant when the very existence of the state of Israel stems largely from the gross abuse Jewish people suffered in Europe.
When atrocities occur in Israel, as they do frequently, it is not unreasonable to draw attention to the parallel. Mrs Do-as-you-would-be-done-by and Mrs Be-done-by-as-you-did from the Water Babies spring to mind. And a forceful shorthand for this is to make the comparison between Israel and the nazi state. It may be regarded by some as a crude and offensive comparison but it emphatically makes the point.
Nor does it seem unreasonable to draw attention the “abused child turned adult abuser” syndrome. The psyche of population with a background of being dreadfully persecuted is quite naturally defensive ( “This will never happen to us again..”) But this can gradually morphs (perhaps unconsciously) into aggressive abuse and oppression of others – postulating defence – with a revisiting of history but with a different cast.
It is said that to engage in this comparison is unwise and offensive. Unwise? Perhaps, if one is aware that the result is almost bound to be a tirade of faux outrage from those who have weaponised and politicised antisemitism to a devastating degree. But surely this is something that should be challenged and challenged forcibly.
Offensive? To whom? Jewish people? There are many Jewish people who are appalled at the policies and practice of Israel and who themselves have drawn the parallels.
Offensive to those who support the policies of the Israeli state? Good. Their actions need to be condemned in the strongest possible terms – and if comparison with Nazi abuse makes them uncomfortable, I see nothing to apologise for.
The Israeli state and its friends are well practised in the art of stifling criticism and they have a very powerful weapon in the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, together with all the “instances” which have been added to the core text – and which have been criticised by the very author of the said core text. Some of these “instances” are highly political in nature and are designed to prevent what many regard as justified criticism of the state of Israel’s expansionist and ethnic cleansing policies.
The SNP’s wholesale and uncritical adoption of the IHRA definition of anti-semitism, together with all the problematic “instances” has led to internal attempts to dredge up instances of strong anti- Israel feeling in order to bring spurious charges of antisemitism against people who are quite obviously not guilty of hating the Jewish people.
I do not hate Jewish people, but I have no hesitation in challenging people supporting Israeli policies, be they Jewish or non-Jewish, and if this causes their sensitivities to be offended, so be it. Blunt language and comparisons, even if crude and not correct in all aspects, are often appropriate vehicles to forcefully express a point of view. Calling someone a “wanker’ does not necessarily mean they are actually masturbating, but the import – and often the effect – is certainly clear.
@Maren
First of all it’s not Soros in himself being the puppeteer is regarded as the anti-Semitic theme, it’s that he is being puppeted and funded by Rothschilds bank.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/cartoonist-disinvited-from-white-house-defends-drawing-panned-as-anti-semitic/
Secondly, equating Israel with Nazis IS part of the “working” definition: “The IHRA definition states that some forms of vitriol against Israel, including comparing it to Nazi Germany, are examples of anti-Semitism”.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/french-lawmakers-pass-resolution-calling-israel-hatred-a-form-of-anti-semitism/
Yes, the source of these two articles is an Israel one.
If the SNP are following the IRHA, they had little choice but to cast the two adrift, or be accused like Labour of being “anti-Semitic”.
Whether the SNP actually agree with the definitions is a another matter – there’s a General Election on and Corby is being crucified over anti-Semitism, with Labour being badly affected in the polls.
Well said homry …..BUT
Israel don’t have concentration camps they don’t do experimental surgical operations on Palestinian people and don’t exterminate them in gas’s chambers
There’s the difference so it’s not just scale
twathater @6:00
Hear hear
Gavin Barrie …what you say is utter crap
@Terry callachan says:
5 December, 2019 at 6:38 pm
Gavin Barrie …what you say is utter crap
Well, just you stay in your blissfully ignorant state of denial then mate.
Well said, Gavin Barrie.
Many of us have done what you did.
We kept it off social media and emailed MPs/MSPs,to no avail.
When NS turns a blind eye to actual sexual assault of 2 young girls in Scotland by a TW but weeps for an alleged rape of a TW in Holland, something is wrong.
This has blown up because the trans activists decided to target those who signed the women’s pledge.
People like Leeze & Jordon should have been banned from the SNP months ago.
She must realise this will not go away.
You can deplore Israeli government policy, denounce Israeli government as a war crimes government, denounce settlements as war crimes and apartheid, and not use Nazi tropes. Neale and Denise are idiots.
Just finished reading the last two theads in their entirety and what I forecast many months ago is happening. Fierce division among ostensible independence supporters, members of the SNP burning their membership cards in support of their own “woke” sensitivies as opposed to the welfare of the entire people of Scotland and invective against each other on a scale i’ve never experienced before on this blog. We are doing it again(no doubt with some help from the Britnats) – destroying any chance of a better future for our descendants – no matter what they want to call themselves. I’m witnessing the death of the independence movement! Really sad.
This is pertinent to the ongoing Discussions …
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/israel-approves-controversial-jewish-nationality-law-1.3570017
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy
The Israeli govt last year passed a law that denations and disenfranchises the Arab minority that makes a fifth of the population and has been part of the population for centuries, downgrading their language, culture and status within Israel.
Terry callachan says:
5 December, 2019 at 6:38 pm
Gavin Barrie …what you say is utter crap
—————————————————————–
So insightful Terry bet Gavin feel he just wasted his time typing his 427 word post, blew him away with 7 words 🙂
Duelling with kids, Wings is homophobic, clumsy, vile in trans-phobic language,
And there is a wee clique he doesn’t like and a clique hate him. What a waste of time
That is where c £400,000 went in last year – to Wings, to fixate on trans rights, c £600,000 for Wings and Salmond.
I can think of 600k better spent, and Wings not a penny. Sadly supporters of Indy have given this homophobe 600k
Time Wings went away.far away from Scottish Indy, and transitioned his blog to his real obsession – Incel homophobe
Have to say Greg, couldn’t disagree more.
For everybody that thinks like me there is someone who thinks the opposite. Stu didn’t start this, he as always is just saying “it is what it is”.
They cannot get away with this. How long did it take them to get rid of Denise? 2 months? He is making a very valid point. Timing is never right. I haven’t read all the comments but not sure how many women are slating Stu?
I agree with your last sentiment though, come on Stu, give us an article to go for the jugular.
Stick together and vote SNP and Hanvey of course.
Okey-doke, here’s the result of the SNP doing the sensible thing. Main page of Hark the Herald right now:
“Nicola Sturgeon: ‘Boris Johnson has ducked and dived through election campaign'”
“Boris Johnson ‘won’t find time’ to face ITV interview ahead of general election”
“Corbyn rejects claims he made Labour ‘welcoming refuge’ for anti-Semites”
“FMQs
Scottish Government accused of funding ‘bomb-making factory’”
“Trump impeachment process set to officially begin”
“Neil Mackay: The Prince and the PM – twin symbols of everything that is rotten in Britain”
“Johnson apologises for ‘any offence caused’ over his infamous letterboxes and bank robbers remarks”
bearing in mind that I forget exactly, 70% of the readers in a Herald readers panel poll intend voting SNP, who above comes out the best? Is it:
A. The Tories
B. Labour
C. LibDems
D. SNP
It’s the 64,000 dollar question!
@Maren,
are you saying that the Green Party only fielded a candidate in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath to scupper the chances of Neale winning,
the Scottish Green Party has become more about the Trans debate than it`s main raison d’être of saving the planet from a climate catastrophe,
the contagion of the Scottish Green Party has jumped bodies and has begun to infest the SNP.
I WILL SUPPORT NICOLA STURGEON AND INDEPENDENCE .
REMEMBER THE TIME WINGS OVER SCOTLAND WAS A PRO INDEPENDENCE SITE
EH REV .
@Gavin Barrie (6.11) –
Hear hear.
Freedom of speech is not for us mere mortals. Heaven forfend we are free to express ourselves. Other pople should do our thinking and talk for us…je croix and non!
Ayrshirescot,
If the Jewish state and its fan’s don’t like it being compared to the nazis, it would be a good idea to stop fuckin acting like them.
“To the people condemning Stuart Campbell and THREATENING him with withdrawal of funding , I say SHAME ON YOU”
Nobody’s obliged to fund me. The day I say things I don’t believe in order to keep money coming in, people should definitely stop doing so.
The other parties are not going to touch this stuff with a barge pole as they would have to answer the questions themselves and state a position. This is an attack from within and will not stop the end of the Union but could well be the end of Wings as a major force for independence.
@Gavin Barrie
Well said in what is needed to wake up the sheep sycophants when Independence isn’t even on the SNP election literature.
Stronger for (Scotland) is replaced with Trans Nutters.
“This is an attack from within and will not stop the end of the Union but could well be the end of Wings as a major force for independence.”
*shrug*
If you came here for comforting bullshit you made a mistake.
The last 24 hours have shown me that I can’t vote SNP with good conscience. I’m a supporter of Joanna Cherry, and my own MP (Deidre Brock) seems decent too. But I can’t endorse the hypocrisy and utter madness on display.
Well I’m glad I don’t live in Stirling or Glasgow South cos I wouldn’t vote for any of those two weasels .Never trusted them.
@Maren
Hi, is there a current and accurate list of which politicians / candidates have signed the women’s pledge?
And I suppose it follows that it would also be useful to have a current and accurate list of politicians / candidates that have signed the LGBTI equality pledge.
This information would at least enlighten folk as to where their politicians and candidates stand on the respective matters.
@Dave M
So get a boak bucket, hurrl up the contents of your stomach making sure you don’t get it over the ballot paper, stick a peg on your nose, quickly put an X in the SNP box, drop it into the ballot box before you vomit again, and when we get a YES vote in the second half of 2020 you can vow to only ever vote for the Pina Colada party and jeer and make gestures at your local SNP reps – if there are any left.
Vote SNP on Dec 12th or kiss BoJo’s unionist arse forever.
An interesting read BTL.
Who would have thought that Scotland returning to independence would be so unimportant to many on here because it apparently won’t be Utopia. Because Scottish politicians will be imperfect. How could I have got to the age I am now believing in Scottish exceptionalism? Maybe because I was never so fucking stupid as to think that way.
Oh, and Nicola Sturgeon is a closet lesbian. Lolz.
As I said, it’s been an interesting read.
Fortunately, Scotland’s independence will not come about as a result of the cynically naive on here but as the result of a majority of normal Scottish people getting over the cringe, accepting that We are no better nor worse than anyone else and stepping up to the plate. We are gradually getting there and we won’t be diverted much by the drummed up hysteria around other issues – which will be made worse not better by undermining the thousands of people who understand that the SNP only as a means to the end of achieving Scotland’s independence.
Had to go back to wan o the auld wans to get some order back
Bring it on tory cunts!
https://twitter.com/ScarletteDrake/status/1156673062995202052
I see Wings as being objective, and providing sources in support of observations. Anyone who expects a ‘My party right or wrong’ approach is going to be disappointed.
Have people forgoten the legal case against that nice Mr Carmichael, where Wings helped raise the initial £6k overnight, and subsequently £200k? Which was in support of Nicola.
My own opinion is that there is a major split growing within the SNP, and Nicola needs to be seen to either Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way. The latter possibly by organising an investigation by a small group of senior people not already involved. The purpose of this to include looking for a fifth column of entryist agitators.
Stuart, I come here for information on the road to independence. Its your blog, if you decide to change the subject I will go elsewhere. The SNP are never going to be perfect but they are our only vehicle for the forseeable future.
Wait, wait, what’s that now? There’s a Super-Woke category? OMG!!!! ?
liz: “When NS turns a blind eye to actual sexual assault of 2 young girls in Scotland by a TW but weeps for an alleged r**e of a TW in Holland, something is wrong.”
Actually, when Sturgeon decided to criticise Clarks over the way they named little girls’ shoes in the name of feminine solidarity, yet remained utterly silent about a Pakistani gang that had abused many young white girls in ways that would make you vomit – which was made public at exactly the same time – THAT was the sign that something was wrong.
This chorus of comments signalling concern for women’s welfare. What a joke.
Been a long time lurker on here and it’s always an education!
This is Revs website and he can post whatever he wants, we can be influenced by it or not in our thinking.
But to say bye bye to supporting by either BTL or financially, just comes across as spitting the dummy.
To be honest, all this anti-antisemitism hasn’t changed my views on how I will vote next week. At this point in time it has to be SNP and then take them to task through our MPs afterwards.
Going by the response received will decide if I stay a member.
I read what Stu posts on his twitter regarding self-ID etc and find it wholly unwelcome that SNP candidates are being pushed out as a result of their thinking! It’s ridiculous.
I had a conversation with my daughter about gender & self-ID and all she had to say was that I was getting old. GTF, it’s nothing to do with my age, you can’t change science!
Craig Murray
You really think that this is a way that the SNP should be behaving, its disgusting and just a tad odd that McDonald and Smith remain untouched. You talk about Stu concentrating on independence well don’t you think that’s what the SNP should be doing. If this is the way they are behaving then NS seems to have lost control of the party and she needs to be reminded that the priority is independence, a goal she has clearly lost interest in.
dadsarmy 6:32
@Maren
First of all it’s not Soros in himself being the puppeteer is regarded as the anti-Semitic theme, it’s that he is being puppeted and funded by Rothschilds bank.
Yeah, I’m sure this is true, but how is this relevant to the article Neale shared three years ago? Your link leads to an article written in 2019 discussing recent events around the cartoonist Ben Garrison and a completely different cartoon from 2017 that Neale obviously did not share in 2016. The Sputnik article used a cartoon by an unknown cartoonist (which is free to use with crediting the author) who calls him or herself “Inside Monkey”.
Besides the questionable thought behind you’re linking to this article, which is that we should be aware of any controversy of an image merely used to illustrate an article, which is a spurious demand, I believe it ought to matter to us which precise image we are talking about if we are going to accuse someone of anti-semitism. Sharing a Soros cartoon alone is surely not an issue in and of itself.
Secondly, equating Israel with Nazis IS part of the “working” definition: “The IHRA definition states that some forms of vitriol against Israel, including comparing it to Nazi Germany, are examples of anti-Semitism”.
Yes, it is, and yes, the debate as to whether this is justified or not does not and should not form part of the election campaign. However, as I have stated before, Neale wrote his post a full year before the IHRA definition was adopted in Scotland. Are we all going to go and retrospectively punish people for things that were not proscribed at the time? Surely you must see that this is ludicrous, unworkable and unjust.
You can with good reasoning apply your criticism to Denise Findlay, however, who made her statements after the definition was adopted. She clearly disagrees and so do many other people – I cannot recall there having been an open debate around a wholesale or partial adoption of the IHRA definition taking place, but if it is official party policy (is it?) then you can make a case against her.
However, it needs to be acknowledged that the IHRA definition is not uncontroversial and two of the authors who were instrumental in writing it have noted that it is being used to stifle free speech. One did so approvingly, the other out of concern for the definition being used to hammer people who are not anti-semitic into silence. In my view that needs to be considered in any discussion around the issue.
Maureen
It’s a generation thing…
I had a conversation with my 30 yr old niece last weekend – I commented on the results of a womens’ basketball match where, not surprisingly, the team with the 6 ft 4 inch ‘bearded’ player had thrashed the team that wasn’t as tall.
I said I thought it was unfair on female athletes who have trained hard and fought for their place in the team and to my shock I received a 10 minute lecture about how I was transphobic, I didn’t understand anything about the issue, she suggested I do a lot more research and reading and if I still thought that way after all the reading then I was clearly reading the wrong stuff!!!
I tried to explain my reasoning and the fact that I’m not transphobic or homophobic and let people be themselves etc but got another 10 minute lecture about how could I not have listened to her previous explanation and she could;t believe she was having an argument with me about this most fundamental human right….
So, she went off to bed and there is now a ‘spectre’ between us as she clearly thinks I am a stuffy old fogey when a lll I want to do is defend the right for female athletes to compete on a level playing field. Apparently that is now transphobic.
This is definitely a generation issue and I think the younger generation are more pushy than we ever were. Times are a -changing, so I can understand why Nicola is trying to keep ‘both sides’ happy. If we don’t like the way things could be heading we have to stand up and fight for our ideas – but we have a more immediate fight… let’s get an SNP majority first, then we can deal with it.
I just wonder who is making a lot of these negative SNP comments – I’ve never said that the SNP is perfect, or right, or well run, or democratic even, but, you know what? it is the best party we have in Scotland just now and we need to VOTE SNP ON DECEMBER 12TH.
Then we can fight all we want.
Alyn Smith’s little friend has shut his account twice in order to clean it up. A friend of mine had screenshots of his in the interim. After opening it for the 2nd time he claimed people were passing fake tweets of his. He’s now apparently closed it down completely!
Scot Finlayson 7:05 pm
@Maren,
are you saying that the Green Party only fielded a candidate in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath to scupper the chances of Neale winning,
Yes, that is the way it seems to me. Especially based on how the Green Party members attacked Neale after he said women needed to be listened to when the government plans a law change that will affect their rights. Signing the Women’s Pledge and meeting For Women Scotland compounded his crimes.
___________________________
This is the SNP Women’s Pledge:
Women have the right to discuss policies which affect them, such as the proposed self identification of sex, without being abused or silenced
Women have the right to maintain their sex based protections as set out in the Equality Act 2010. These include female only spaces such as changing rooms, hospital wards, sanitary and sleeping accommodation, refuges, hostels and prisons.
Women have the right to refuse consent to males in single sex spaces or males delivering intimate services to females such as washing, dressing or counselling.
Women have the right to single sex sport to ensure fairness and safety at all levels of competition.
Women have the right to organise themselves according to their sex class across a range of cultural, leisure, educational and political activities.
_____________________
All of the points listed reflect current UK law. And I repeat again what I said earlier – you ignore the anger of women about this assault on our rights at your peril. As in any political movement, women are doing most of the drudge work, the heavy lifting behind the scenes of the independence movement. The supporters of the 2017 SNP campaign locally who did the envelope stuffing and leafletting were about 75% or so women.
I’ve already heard about several local SNP campaigns that are struggling because so many of the women have walked or been bullied away. And the youngsters who caused that don’t seem to be willing or able to fully replace the capable, hard-working and dedicated women they’ve driven away. Worse still, a great many women have now said this is the last time they’re putting all of their time and effort into a party intent on stripping them of their rights. They’ve gritted their teeth this one last time.
Women are the sex least likely to vote yes. They will be even less likely to vote yes when they realise that the only way we can hold on to our legal rights is by staying in the UK because the Scottish Government is funding and partnering with organisations which have publicly lobbied the UK Government to remove women’s legal protections.
So when the pro-indy women leave the SNP independence movement in droves because the SNP leadership will not listen to our concerns, don’t blame Stu. He tried to warn you all what was going on, but he’s been told to stay in his lane and stick to writing about independence. But as Stu is trying to tell you all, independence will not happen without the support of women and the SNP is hellbent on disenfranchising us.
It’s a simple choice the men in the independence movement face – make this the first political movement that doesn’t take the women fighting alongside them for granted. The first not to treat the women in its ranks as second class members. Don’t echo the contempt and disdain all these other movements have shown to the needs and rights of its female members. Be the kind of men an independent Scotland needs and accept us as equals and our rights just as important as those of a group of your fellow men.
As soon as a party becomes popular as the snp did in 2014 the Zionist jews infiltrate it to ensure control of issues and the line a party must take. Salmond had the guts to criticise the murderous Israeli regime but it seems sturgeon does not. The party has permitted (like the parties in England) too many jews in government in stark contrast to their supposedly very small percentage of the population. No other community which is much larger has even half the numbers. The system is clearly corrupted in their favour. This is not acceptable. If people genuinely want to stop Israeli war crimes then they need to vote for non jew candidates. So say no to mhari black, blackford ,freeman and blackman. As ed Miliband said he is jew and Zionist. There is no difference to him and it’s time to stop pretending there is!
Every person that does that calling someone an anti-semite for showing disgust at the actions of the state of Israel, is doing exactly what those Westminster politicians do when they push the line that those who want independence for Scotland are anti-English. Mixing antagonism towards the actions of the political bodies and a people. Just… don’t.
The IHRA has clear lines regarding criticising Israel. Rev Stu Campbell is twisting the definition in this article
P.S. Read the
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/international-holocaust-remembrance-alliance.
You are allowed to get annoyed with Israel if you want. It’s pretty clear.
Stu,
Do what you want but I suggest you back off as you are no help at all
To be honest I imagine that there are numerous “assets” of the state deeply embedded in the SNP, and have been for many, many years. The SNP were the biggest threat to the british establishment – who will stop at nothing to maintain their “precious union”.
Are they now the biggest threat? I am beginning to doubt it. The leadership of the SNP really need to grow a pair and stand up to the establishment instead of meekly backing down every time.
The Tories have a sitting councillor in england who was an ACTIVE member of the IRA, yet she has not been expelled. We have candidates for a GE in 2 weeks stepping down over some tweets or social media how many years ago? We have a PM in boko who has a track record of lieing whichever way the wind suits – yet nothing has happened.
Hell, all 3 mainstream parties actually had known paedophiles in Westminster, who the police and MI5 knew about – yet nothing was done
That Israel is an apartheid state there is no doubt. That Israel controls the narrative in the US there is no doubt. That Israel controls the narrative in the UK there is no doubt.
That the Scottish tories are agents of the Israeli state I am starting to lean towards.
A country of 8.5 million people which has the entire world fawning over them and bending over backwards to appease them and is actively interfering in politics on a worldwide scale yet no government or press outlets has the balls to highlight it.
I guess by their twisted mentality this post makes me an anti-semite too.
I couldnt give a xxxx about anti semitism, trans gender, lgbt whatever. Sort it out after independence.
No deviation, eyes on the prize, independence.
@Maren
Thanks for that. Yes, the cartoon I linked to is from 2017, whereas the one Hanvey linked to from his facebook is from 2016 according to the media, and is one WITHOUT the word “Rothschilds”.
Luckily I had decided (and said) anyway that few people would understand the reference. Which makes the condemnation harder to understand without the Rothschilds clue in the 2017 one – except as I say, the SNP had no choice, or face days of QEUH style hounding.
Thanks for the correction though. Basically speaking Hanvey was in the wrong place at the wrong time with the SNP, but should just drop it and carry on campaigning, and will likely win.
The media makes much of anti-semitism, but I think most people as Hanvey says, are more interested in the NHS and other issues. I did post a link to his crowdfunder by the way, elsewhere, having read it here. By a sheer coincidence I’d done a post saying that the SNP needed to watch out for anti-Semitism – hours later it happened. Don’t think it was my fault!
Reason for the Israel source of info is to see it from their eyes, which is what the IRHA does, rightly or wrongly – and the EU and much of the world including the US.
Does go to show, all prospective candidates should first clean up their social media – same principle as job applicants.
Meg merrilees
Yeah, pretty much the same conversation, although I hope I gave her food for thought when I asked her how she felt about men who ID as woman being put into a female prison who then went on to sexually assault female inmates or the nurse who was put in the impossible position by a man who claimed to be a woman and was there for a smear test.
I asked her if she thought those claims were covered by the equality act as she had stated regarding med who ID as women using female bathrooms and she did say that it wasn’t right.
We haven’t discussed it further.
The one part in the discussion that floored me was when she said when she had children,she would let them decide whether they were a girl or boy, she wasn’t going to pigeon hole them.
As far as I am concerned they will be either a boy or a girl, I foresee thunder-clouds on the horizon and can only hope that she has a change of heart on that.
I understand that SNP are the vehicle to get us to independence but they really need to get a grip on this whole ID stuff and soon.
dadsarmy @1:13
No need to explain why you were linking to an Israeli source, I understand that completely. Here (link) is the article in question and here (link) you’ll find the original cartoon on its creator’s account. Neither the article nor the cartoon are what I would consider good quality work, but that is besides the point – there is no mention anywhere of Soros being Jewish or of Rothchild.
Yes, you are right, by the way, after reading the article you linked to and then googling the images, I now get why this is obvious to you as an antisemitic trope (but wasn’t to me or Neale or most other people I know – I don’t look at websites and don’t read the kind of publications that would carry these kind of cartoons, so I took the Sputnik one at face value (what it implied to me was Clinton is just the same as Obama, they’re all crazy lefty commies in league with this Hungarian billionaire lefty commie, vote Trump).
I should add that Neale is not arguing about this – he was asked a direct question at the hustings and while he did say how upset he was about the allegation, given that he knows he does not feel any hatred or prejudice towards the Jewish people, he also stated that he did wrong by writing a public message in anger and without choosing his words wisely on such a contentious issue. He seemed to fully accept the SNP suspension procedure and did not say one bad word about anyone in the SNP.
And yes, please, when will they learn to manage their social media responsibly. I expect my kids to do better than that!
You should know as well as anyone that the SNP won’t make the rules in an Indy Scotland unless Scots want them too. If they don’t, they’ll choose someone else to make them.
The SNP are still the only vehicle to indy. Even if you think there is some badness in the vehicle, better to still try to steer the vehicle out of the UK and then sort the mess, than to contribute to the mess. I don’t know what’s going on here, but I don’t like it. I do see what’s going on in the SNP and I don’t much like some of that either. But. Indy first.
@Dawn 6 December, 2019
“You should know as well as anyone that the SNP won’t make the rules in an Indy Scotland unless Scots want them too. If they don’t, they’ll choose someone else to make them.
The SNP are still the only vehicle to indy. Even if you think there is some badness in the vehicle, better to still try to steer the vehicle out of the UK and then sort the mess, than to contribute to the mess. I don’t know what’s going on here, but I don’t like it. I do see what’s going on in the SNP and I don’t much like some of that either. But. Indy first.”
LOL More “Wheest for Indy” Even if SNP are totally corrupt and robbing us all blind just keep on Voting for us and when we get a YES vote we promise to stop being corrupt and stop robbing you blind ” and there are suckers actually still beleive this ?