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Trouble in Middleland

Posted on July 18, 2014 by

After the implosion of Rory Stewart MP’s “Hands Across The Border” initiative (to be replaced by “Make A Big Pile Of Rocks For The Union”, which we’re sure will be a roaring success, despite being currently £52,500 short of its fundraising target), we comforted ourselves that there was still to be a big lovebombing exercise between Scotland and England this month, in the form of the Border Union Rally.


Tragically, it seems as though some “unforeseen technical problems” have struck the event – although we’re not absolutely sure how you can have technical problems with going for a walk – and it too has had to be cancelled.

The website has vanished, so the precise details of these insurmountable logistical obstacles aren’t as yet forthcoming. (We’re finding it hard to shake the terribly cynical suspicion that they’re related to the difficulty of calling something a “rally” if there are only three people at it.) But we’ll bring you more news as we get it.

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    1. 18 07 14 17:02

      Trouble in Middleland | Scottish Independence News

    264 to “Trouble in Middleland”

    1. Busy-Bee says:

      Oh deary me… not having much luck!
      (smirks to self)

    2. steviecosmic says:

      Nicely tied in there with ‘our heroes’ returning from some place we have no business being. It’s a mixed message folks.

    3. The UJ bovver boot logo may be a clue as to the technical problems. The event was widely publicised by the EDL which now seems to have imploded.

    4. Rod Robertson says:

      Oh dear ,what a shame ,never mind c’est la vie.

    5. steviecosmic says:

      Too true, it has EDL written all over it.

    6. Brian Hill says:

      It might well be the people nearest the border have to use binoculars to see what’s going on in London. Being our nearest neighbours and almost as remote from the throbbing centres of power maybe they have better ways to ruin a good walk. Maybe they’re just our friends in the North…

    7. Ali says:

      Was in Kirk Yetholm a couple of weeks ago and saw two houses and a car with Yes stickers in their windows 🙂

    8. Murray McCallum says:

      Rory’s not leaving much time to plan, order, receive and build whatever he is constructing.

      A few truck loads of hardcore isn’t going to look good as his depiction of the value of the Union (though many would argue is very realistic).

    9. goldenayr says:

      Maybe it was a practice run for their contract bid to run westminsters Border Guard Posts.

      Until they found it was a lie.

    10. Steve B says:

      Kirk Yetholm is at the Scottish end of the Pennine Way and thousands of walkers walk there every year – not that I’ve ever done it!

      A lot of them walk the full 267 miles walk, so it seems a little obscure what technical problems could cause the proposed short walk from taking place – unless the total number of legs available to walk it were less than 2?

    11. Cath says:

      Ach, I like Rory the Tory and think he means well. I honestly wish there were more people on the No side like him because if there were I suspect we’d be having a more respectful debate and I’d be more trusting of decent faith whatever the result. I’d rather his events went had gone well than the Orange Order march comes off.

      Sadly he seems to be a rare breed on the no side.

      I alarmed myself recently looking into the shares on the Better Together site. I’ve noticed recently every post of theirs gets a huge number of shares – into the thousands. Given I’ve never seen anyone share their stuff on my FB – even the couple of friends who’ve “liked” them, I found that odd and assume it’s some kind of technical jiggery-pokery. But I had a wee look at some of the named shares.

      Man is that a scary thing. A couple of OO and Rangers types but mostly (perhaps additionally?) the kind of people who are sharing nothing but Better Together, Britain First and other fascist, nasty pages. I was so relieved to finally run across one woman who’s only other posts were Tory and cat ones!

    12. Smith says:

      Does anyone live close enough to this field to take regular photos of the cairn being built?

      I wonder if they could also look for overnight JCB tracks should it suddenly gain height. But with a significant shortfall of funds, it’s hard to see, literally, how this will get off the ground.

    13. goldenayr says:

      Steve B

      You could be right about the number of legs.

      Heard that when the EDL were practising their goosestep.The guy shouting “Left,Right” got huckled awa by his mammy shouting at him “You’re a very naughty boy”(in best Monty Python)after only getting halfway.

      The poor marchers were left with one leg in the air and incapable of figuring out what to do next without orders.

    14. Croompenstein says:

      Are they making a memorial cairn for the union?

    15. Illy says:

      When I see stuff like this I always ask: “Why isn’t the british government taking care of these ‘british heroes’?”

      It irritated a couple of Erskine fund doorknockers a while back, but that’s the question to ask: Why are we having to rely on charities to do what the government should be doing?

    16. Tatterdemelon says:

      Their fundraising page, going for 95 days, has raised a whole £75 see:

    17. Flooplepoop says:

      will they have to cancel the referendum if not enough No voters turn up?

    18. Doug Daniel says:

      Maybe everyone’s sprained their ankle?

    19. Dcanmore says:

      These things probably get cancelled because of the loons that declare an interest to be actively involved. Better Together can’t afford the negative publicity if the EDL, NF, SDL, OO, BNP or Britain First turn up with their banners to march for Britain. So quietly these things get dropped.

      ‘Dear Rory, as a member of the BNP I would like to declare my (and my colleagues) interest in participating in your … ‘ LOL!

    20. Bob Sinclair says:

      I don’t know folks, I mean, what better metaphor for the Union could there be other than a small insignificant pile of rubble.

    21. Steven Jennings says:

      What a shame…. moving on.

    22. Cath says:

      These things probably get cancelled because of the loons that declare an interest to be actively involved.

      Aye, having looked at their page shares, I suspect that’s the truth. I also suspect it’s why they always sound so hopeful about the silent majority. They’re really, really hoping a lot of people out there are pro-union but keeping quiet for whatever reason. There certainly are people like that, but not in the kind of numbers they need, I don’t think. Which leaves them just hoping enough people remain scared enough to vote against what they would really want if they hadn’t been scared off it.

    23. gillie says:

      These border folk are not very hospitable neighbours.

    24. heedtracker says:

      Tory Rory’s an amateur but he has a long career walking around in places that are far away and walking is another very hard thing Scotland wont enable to do without the UK, if we do vote Yes, says my Slovene girlfriend Jezeeeena, who also wants me to sponsor her Slovenia says you’re BetterTogether CiiF’s but it’s per comment and it’s already cost me over ten million quid.

      Women eh. Also if you google Prof Tomkins, she’s everywhere, from vote nob orders.con and BetterTogether.con and Ian Davidson MP.con, talk about pin up girls for no thanks to separation:D

    25. Andy A says:

      On a nominally related note, do come and see us at the Yes Scottish Borders stand at the Border Union Show in Kelso next Friday and Saturday. Come and see how we’re spending some of the money that the Rev helped us raise !

    26. Tocasaid says:

      Hilarious stuff though the Union Jack-walking-Boot looks a bit sinister. Seems to have been organised by a horsey type from Northumberland?

      Maybe the Orange Order have a monopoly on walking feet at this time of year?

    27. desimond says:

      If only they had called it a March the fine folk of the Orange Order would have been right down there in support.

      I wonder if those heroes mantioned ever wonder why they return from such hostile places and have to rely on charity…that wonderful Westminster mindset is totally encompassed right there!

    28. gillie says:

      Perhaps if we had a ‘Big Border Punch Up’ at Gretna Green there might be more people willing to turn up.

      Blood, snottirs, bits of hair, black eyes and broken limbs is more the Borderers style.

    29. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      O/T-I don’t know why Newsnet give Tory Boy David Torrance houseroom:

      As one of the comments says, it looks like David (“professionally neutral”) Torrance and his Better Together masters are bricking it, and wee Davie got the job of trying to play-down / discredit / nothing-to-see-here the Salmond/Darling debate, before it happens.

    30. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Hop for the Union!

    31. goldenayr says:


      “‘Dear Rory, as a member of the BNP I would like to declare my (and my colleagues) interest in participating in your”

      Should the letter not read.

      “Dear Oberstormenfuhrer,As leader of the local SS(Staines Seven)Brigade,I am somewhat miffed not have received an official invite.Yours G.Helmetheid”?

    32. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      @gillie says:
      Perhaps if we had a ‘Big Border Punch Up’ at Gretna Green there might be more people willing to turn up.

      The could have billed it as “Battered Together”.


    33. goldenayr says:

      Calgacus MacAndrews

      They wouldn’t even post my comment about him.And not a single sweary word in it.

    34. Joe M says:

      From their indiegogo appeal page:

      “•If you can’t make it to Gretna, donate a stone from afar and we’ll place it on the monument for you.”

      Is there a freepost address for that?

    35. frazer allan whyte says:

      Illy – soldiers generally come from the lower classes and -let’s be frank here – socially problematic groups. Thus they are disposable. The scandal of inadequate equipment in in Afghanistan showed they were actually considered disposable even before they had reached their use-by date.

      Once they have been discharged – usually with no useful skill – they are an inconvenience. PTSD and serious bodily injuries also make for poor recruiting of new cannon fodder so they are best ignored – or even better – hidden away. It is no accident that so many “heros” are in prison or off themselves.

      There is a lot of talk about the “proud Scottish military traditions” and it is nonsense. There is no reason to be proud about killing people whatever unfortunate historical necessity may be involved. The powers that be invariably betray the plebs they have conned into becoming cannon fodder – from a WW1 promise of a land fit for heroes to whatever shibboleth – democracy/capitalism/socialism/terrorism – is used to justify war.

      Scotland has no imperial pretensions and its appalling clan history is long past. What a chance to be a nation looking after its own borders only and perhaps taking part in peacekeeping. What a shame that that ludicrous planeless aircraft carrier with no other function than to be a mobile landing field for bombing brown people was built in Scotland.

      So the middle and lower classes are emotionally blackmailed into helping the crushed and crippled “heroes” because Westminister and its Scottish toadies don’t want them soiling their doorsteps and shudder at the “tax burden” they would have to shoulder to be able to treat them and prepare them for a decent normal life.

      Extreme? Remember Magaret Thatcher – her of the heroic funeral – didn’t want heroes in wheelchairs at her Falkland victory parade. The sooner Scotland is shot of that lot and their imperial hallucinations the better.

    36. panda paws says:

      @Doug Daniel

      “Maybe everyone’s sprained their ankle?”

      I was going with blisters.


      Albies Alba and the 40 paragraphs has been very busy this weather. Apparently one post had 9000 words. In the name of the wee man; is there nothing needing done in Slovenia these days…

    37. Dcanmore says:

      Poor Rory can’t get anything off the ground, not even his feet. I feel sorry for him so I think I’ll send him a rock, in the post (but just a really small one considering the privatised Royal Mail rates).

    38. Mrs Grimble says:

      Looking at the drawing of their proposed ‘monument’, I’m wondering if they’ve given any thought to planning permission. The field (behind the Old Toll House) appears to be a caravan site currently, so permission for change of use may be required. They don’t give any size for the thing, but PP is required if its going to be more than two metres high; PP may also be required if a new roadway is constructed or more than superficial excavation is needed.
      Of course, since it’s unlikely to get to anything more than the ‘pile of stones’ stage they shouldn’t have have any legal problems. And it should bring some welcome trade to the Toll House.

    39. Murray McCallum says:

      Maybe they could create a virtual cairn with the funds raised?

      Could be massive.

    40. Derek M says:

      ive got an idea for your fund raising Rory how about wet sponge a Tory day when you get all your Tory pals put in stocks and let the public throw wet sponges at you ,im sure there will be bus loads of us yessers come down to pay our hard earned cash to wallop you lot with them lol

    41. donald anderson says:

      If you are bored and don’t know what to do with yourself, you could always take the Labour survey. It really is good for a laugh!

      Please pass it on to others who would enjoy doing it.

    42. heedtracker says:

      @ panda paws, Slovene chicks really know me out, leave the West behind, in CiFering for the ukok. Holy shit I’d hate to get my law essays marked by that dude in dear old Glesga uni. Mind you the Prof probably hands out firsts if you wear a No thanks badge in his lectures. Or hand in essays titled “I hate AlicSamin because he has no grasp of constitutional law and his plans for Scotland are fascist and dictatorial and he left out Prof Adam Tomkins from Scottish constitutional affairs”

    43. goldenayr says:

      Derek M

      If they made it rocks they could kill two birds with one stone(pun intended).

    44. Dcanmore says:

      It would be cheaper and more fun to build Rory’s cairn out of Lego.

    45. Lanarkist says:

      We should have the next WOS meeting at the border , border pub crawl rally! Could probably muster a few thousand in a week or two!

      OT. Anyone else hear the subterfuge on BBCSCOT, Fred MacCauley this morning. Near the top of the show they were discussing music in gyms, yawn, when Fred played Paulo Nuttini and the crowd singing along at TITP and then straight into Queen’s ‘ I Wanna Break Free’ stating after the short clip that they sounded like they wanted out of here and were given as excellent songs to exercise to!

      Remember that said Fred is major shareholder, funder and one of the Directors of The Stand Comedy Club, run by erstwhile Assist, Gen. sec of SLAB and now full on vocal supporter of Independence, Tommy Sheppard.

      Small acts of revolution, subterfuge and coded messages? Would be nice to think so!

      Wonder if the high heid yins got the references?

      Dear Rory, Put your boots on, face South and keep walking, there’s a dear!

    46. Fergus Green says:

      Awww, event cancelled. how totally untogether 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

    47. Derek M says:

      @ goldenayr i did think of that but its seems there must be a shortage of rocks down there since they couldnt build a wee cairn lol

    48. JLT says:


    49. Joe M says:

      I must admit that I do like the design for the proposed monument. It would be a wonderful design for a war memorial, or to remember the victims of an unfortunate event. The enclosure would give separation from all other thoughts of the outside world, while reading the names carved on the wall and thinking on the significance of their passing, a place of reverence.

      I may be wrong, but after the indyref, regardless of outcome, it will have served its purpose and become unloved, forgotten and not maintained. One year from now its floors could be strewn with discarded condoms and cigarette butts, its walls daubed with graffiti.

      There are better uses for £55000.

    50. goldenayr says:

      Derek M

      Maybe they could use nuts?

      That’d take care of the “Nigels”.

    51. Derek M says:

      i like the wet sponge idea better lol but hey no pissing in the buckets of water people keep it fair lmao

    52. goldenayr says:

      Derek M

      OK,no peeing in the buckets.

      How about quick setting concrete?

    53. gordoz says:


      Does anyone else think that the Scottish govt should do a ‘response’ simplified booklet; bullet point of the white Paper to every household as the UK govt did. Keep things ticking over ?

      Something punchy or a booklet out linging the major points.

      I think it would be money well spent – particulalry now or during the games.

    54. TYRAN says:

      No one is interested in this sort of honk. It wouldn’t surprise me if yes is around the 90% on the day. We are being fed utter nonsense.

    55. Derek M says:

      it would totally ruin the sponges goldenayr lol

    56. mogabee says:


      I do believe that there is something planned.

    57. Craig P says:

      28 miles walk is a big commitment. 28 miles in the middle of nowhere with no roads an even bigger one. Not surprised there was no takeup.

    58. goldenayr says:

      Right I’m off canvassing to put an even bigger smile on my face.

      Keep it up guys.

    59. Flower of Scotland says:

      @donald anderson

      I did the Scottish Labour survey! Didn’t fill in some pages as they were very leading! Good fun!

      BBC strike has been suspended. New pay offer! Hmmmm.

      Didn’t like how folk were saying in the previous thread that my SONG might never be sung again after a NO vote! Boo Hoo! Flower of Scotland is not going anywhere!!

    60. heedtracker says:

      My Slovene girlfriend Aliesbadas sent me this

      Thank you Jezereena:D

    61. Juteman says:

      Serious question. Has Rory applied for planning permission for his monument?
      You can’t simply build something just because you think it’s a spiffing wheeze.

    62. Free Scotland says:

      Unforeseen technical problems? Oh yes, Rolf Harris’s Jake the peg (with the extra leg) couldn’t find a shop that would sell him a trio of boots, thus robbing the event of its only crowd-pulling feature.

    63. Mealer says:

      Who’s the Planning Authority for that area ?

    64. Rory says:


      I too like Rory, despite his unbearable simpering speech, I’ve followed him by email since his speech in the House of Lords concerning Libya. He warned about intervention, thhe careful use of rhetoric, etc. Being experienced in Iraq and Afghan. I had a lot of respect for him.

      That was until his fary-tail story that attempted to rewrite history. These attempts are nice, kind of spirit, but utterly bereft of consequence in regards to decision making for a yes or no.

      But i would rather he failed in his attempts and the OO succeeded. Rory is calculated, measured and inoffensive. The OO on the other hand lights up social media to our benefit.

    65. Andy-B says:

      Speaking of websites on Radio Scotland this morning, Danny Alexander said that Better Together, and the UK government had launched a new site to day. He (Alexander) said the new site contained the true facts and figures of independence, and that the benefits of staying in the union far outweighed independence.

      At that point I had a wee chuckle to myself.

    66. Neil MacKenzie says:

      Does anyone have Rory Stewart’s freepost address? I’d like to donate a stone.

    67. Capella says:

      Young Rory would be better to concentrate on his Westminster career and try to make life better for the veterans from his overseas adventures. But a stroll in the Borders is always pleasant and Kirk Yetholm is a very pretty village.
      If you haven’t already seen “Black Watch” do take the opportunity if it comes along. Here’s the opening 10 minutes which gives an excellent flavour of the piece. AS gets a quote towards the end.

    68. Adrian B says:

      This is what Rory is getting up to now. His event is at 12 noon on Sunday – except that he doesn’t mention the time at all here:

    69. There’s something delightfully F’Tang F’Tang Biscuit Barrel about Rory the Tory. I think I’d enjoy a pint in the pub with him.

      However, the more hare-brained his schemes to save the Union become, the more worried I am that be may be given charge of spending some of the Public Purse in the future. It horrifies me that he was considered enough of a natural member of the ruling class to be made a provincial Governor in post-invasion Iraq. No wonder we lost an Empire if that’s what the FCO considers Governor material.

    70. YESGUY says:

      Got a wee message to send to every No voter after the referendum if we lose.

      hope you like it.


    71. donald anderson says:

      Good Idea tae build the wa’ higher. I’ll bring a hud.

    72. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I see the Scottish Labour survey emanates from

      Promoted by Iain McNicol on behalf of the Labour Party both at One Brewer’s Green, London SW1H 0RH.

    73. Derek M says:

      lol nice one YESGUY 🙂 im going to save that for trolls me thinks lol

    74. Dave McEwan Hill says:


      Everybody should do the survey! You can leave out the leading questions

    75. allan sayers says:

      People in the north if england have probably figured out they will have more friends in Scotland than they do in westminster

    76. cal says:

      I’ll say it again. If you love someone you will set them free (there’s a song there I think?). True love is not possessive. I think most right minded people south of the border know this and so give stuff like this a wide berth. They think, “If you want this then I will not stand in your way.”
      People of the rUK I thank you for your open minded attitude! As usual, the nutters are a small minority.

      O/T Braco, if you’re reading this can you give me an e-mail address (perhaps the Yes Largs one)? I’ve got some stuff I’d like to send you on canvassing.

      Apologies if this posts more than once. I seemed to be having a problem with my I pad thingy.

    77. Colin says:

      (We’re finding it hard to shake the terribly cynical suspicion that they’re related to the difficulty of calling something a “rally” if there are only three people at it.)

      That is a nasty lie, there are six of them including the photographer.

    78. Robert Peffers says:

      Ali says: 18 July, 2014 at 3:05 pm:

      “Was in Kirk Yetholm a couple of weeks ago and saw two houses and a car with Yes stickers in their windows”

      That’ll be the problem then, Ali, Rory Stewart MP sent out a group to survey the route. They returned without scouting the route and reported, “But your Hon MP, Sir, There’s three of them YESSERS there”

    79. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm, wee Tory Rory Stewart still having problems raising his funds for the astonishing amazing cairn of the century. I’m shocked and surprised, I really am! 😛

      I wonder if the problem he is having is securing the necessary security for the cairn during and after the building phases. I have the answer to that wee problem if only he’d phone me I’d be glad to inform him of the simple solution. 🙂

      I am sure that whilst Tory Rory and his masses are building their *ahem* cairn from one side we, the local *cough* building inspectors, could very well *ahem* inspect the opposite side of the cairn and remove any *cough* dangerous stones that we see hanging loose. 😛

      On a sort of related topic. We were returning home from Dumfries today when we came upon a wee Skoda. Nothing wrong with that until you realise there was a wee, and I mean WEE, sticker in the corner of its back window. Upon viewing this *ahem* sticker through our extra powerful binoculars, from a distance of about 15 feet 😉 , we realised we were looking at a NAW Thanks stickers. 😛 Now, as everyone knows we are open minded and knowledge sharing people. We love nothing more than sharing the information about why we are *cough* undecideds. Subsequently we began to overtake the Skoda then something really funny happened. As we drew level with said car our Jeep slowed down, almost like it was sending a subliminal message to the Skoda driver 😉 , and proceeded to crawl past thereby giving the driver of the Skoda ample time to read all the posters on our vehicle before pulling in in front so she could also have a reasonable read of the posters on the back door. 😛 I wonder if we were able to change her mind. 😉

    80. Cactus says:

      2 months to go till Scotland’s Vote YES day! Make sure you’re registered to vote all you undecided and YES voters.

      X is a winner 🙂

    81. a2 says:

      “although we’re not absolutely sure how you can have technical problems”

      Probably couldn’t get someone to tie the shoelaces.

    82. Bill Brady says:

      I complained about Border Rally using Hep for Heroes charity months ago. The charity hadnt authorised it.

    83. Bill Brady says:

      Three people at it! I signed up to go!

    84. Bill Brady says:

      Correction, it was Combat Stress I emailed.

    85. Bill Brady says:

      I also suggested to BorderRally organiser we bring food for foodbank!

    86. Lesley-Anne says:

      Mealer says:

      Who’s the Planning Authority for that area ?

      That would be Dumfries and Galloway council Mealer. 😉

      Thanks for the survey link donald, needless to say it has been completed and duly sent off. 😛

    87. Bob Sinclair says:

      thats defo one for my playlist, and it might well be the new Scottish Anthem if the Nawbags win.

    88. Bob Sinclair says:

      Why does everyone keep forgetting to apply Danny Alexanders crowd estimation algorithm to the amount of people attending. 3 is quite clearly and unquestionably 36.

    89. YESGUY says:

      Totally agree Bob

      No voters are C**TS

    90. Robert Peffers says:

      @frazer allan whyte says:18 July, 2014 at 4:02 pm

      ”Soldiers generally come from the lower classes and -let’s be frank here – socially problematic groups. Thus they are disposable. The scandal of inadequate equipment in in Afghanistan showed they were actually considered disposable even before they had reached their use-by date”.


      I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
      The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
      The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
      I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
      O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
      But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
      The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
      O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

      I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
      They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
      They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
      But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
      But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
      The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
      O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

      Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
      Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
      An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
      Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
      Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
      But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
      The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
      O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

      We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
      But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
      An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
      Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
      While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
      But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
      There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
      O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

      You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
      We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
      Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
      The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
      For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
      But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
      An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
      An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

      by Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)

    91. Boorach says:

      From the Hands across the Border website:

      We’ve now decided that rather than pushing the human chain – which has proved logistically very difficult – we are going to work on something more straightforward and more enduring. So we have come up with what we feel is a better plan!

      Has anyone on here ever tried pushing a chain? Damned thing just keeps curling round behind you and insists on being pulled!

    92. the bunnyman says:

      i’m only too willing to donate; i’m sure i could throw in a few spare shoelaces

    93. braco says:

      That’s very kind of you! I will leave you the address over on off topic. Thanks again.

    94. Lesley-Anne says:

      What I’m concerned about is that they do not specify how large or small the stone you take along has to be. I mean would a paving slab be too large for example?

      Would a stone chip from the garden path be too small perhaps?

      What a house brick would that be too formal shape to be of any use?

      Would a breeze block be useful to them or not?

      They just don’t specify the dimensions of stones required for this epic build! 😛

    95. Kev says:

      O/T but just had Shadow Minister for Scotland, Willie Bain MP, at my door, trying to flog Labour’s new (I think) “Scottish Referendum Special” newspaper. I politely told him that I was voting Yes, but accepted his newspaper anyway. And that was it, off he trotted! No attempt at all to try and convince me to vote No, or even ask why I was voting Yes or what party I supported, his heart just sank a wee bit, mumbled “OK” and went next door.

      So I closed the door, but stayed to listen in on his conversation with my neighbour, who happens to be a Yes man too. He was equally polite, but refused the paper,and received an identical, sheepish response from Bain, who then walked off with 2 others, both of whom looked like employees of his.

      Well folks if I knew that my job was on the line (and a very well paid job at that) I would certainly be trying an awfie lot harder than Willie Bain is to try and keep it. Equally, this guys meant to be Shadow Minister for Scotland – standing up for Scotland and its people and protecting them from the many pitfalls of Independence (listed in his wee paper) should surely bring out a bit of passion in him.

      Instead he painted a picture of a party that has lost its soul, its fight, clearly doesn’t know where its going, and seems to be accepting its fate. They are quite simply finished.

    96. Kirsty says:

      @Fraser Allan Whyte,

      Wow, there was a whole load of offensive in your comment. And your “bombing brown people” comment was such tired, Guardian-esque, by rote stuff that it’s just eye-roll inducing.

    97. Grant says:

      Maybe they can wait till the 19th, and celebrate the YES victory.

    98. Dan Huil says:

      @Kev Are you sure it was Willie Bain? Sounds more like Hans Moleman from The Simpsons. [Or Groundscraper Willie?]

    99. Peter says:

      People who fought the Nazi’s when they had a choice to stay safe were heroes. People who join up because they want a new tattoo, not heroes.

      If you don’t want to blow brown people into dogfood then don’t join up. Get a real job instead of becoming a hired killer.

      I hate all this help for heroes shite. Strange that it started just as people were attacking the scum for their part in the war crime of invading Iraq. A real hero would have obeyed Queen’s regulations and told blair where to stick his war but off they marched to slaughter children. PTSD and homelessness is too good for them.

    100. Helena Brown says:

      Have to say what a tonic Wings is this evening, haven’t had such a good laugh in days. Poor Rory, not going well for him is it. I think that Better Together are not having a good time with this referendum, perhaps that is what is making them so bad tempered and rude.
      I would love to send Rory a stone for his wee pile but only on the condition that we bury some useless rubbish under it. Come September it will be identifiable. I have unearthed a tremendous amount of blue granite stone out of the garden I am quite sure it would build a lovely cairn.

    101. dennis mclaughlin says:

      O/T We have received our 2 10k Indie flags (black/silver); would like to display them @ PQ on the 29th but don’t have any suitable hand – held poles……any ideas folks ?.

    102. John Young says:

      Ian Price
      To Me
      Today at 7:13 PM
      Hi John,

      We have successfully processed your generous donation of £0.01.

      We really appreciate your decision to donate to the Scottish Labour Party – and own a piece of our campaigns.

      Together, we can create real change – and it starts now with this donation.

      Our promise to you is to use this money wisely to help build a campaign fighting for Scotland’s future, and we want you involved every step of the way.

      Thank you for your support.


      Ian Price
      Scottish General Secretary

      PS. there are certain checks we need to make on big donations, so we might need to be back in touch – but if you don’t hear from us you can assume that everything is ok.

      To Ian Price
      Today at 7:30 PM
      Sadly Ian my donation like the SLAB is a joke.
      Everyone I know is voting YES for a better Scotland.

      Better Together-No Thanks – are You Yes Yet?

    103. Robert Peffers says:

      I wonder if I’m the only one who saw Cam the Bam’s deep regret about the downed planes fate as rather ironic?

      This is the guy responsible for sending our armed forces out to die. Not to mention the same guy responsible for the innocent civilians killed as collateral wastage. The same guy responsible for the need for food banks and the sudden increase in the death rate of disable people due to their loss of income. Somehow his mock sorrow seemed a bit hollow to me.

    104. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve been looking at Tory Rory’s *ahem* cairn design and according to his desired amount of donations then he will end up with 5,500 bricks, sorry I mean stones, at £10 a brick, sorry stone. 😉

      Now from my point of view as an unqualified brick, sorry stone, layer 5,500 bricks, sorry stones, does not seem to be that much. Moreover I’m almost 5,500 bricks, sorry stones, definitely seems a rather small amount of bricks, sorry stones, to build the grand design he has laid out on his page. 😛

      If he is lucky, I reckon his 5,500 bricks, sorry stones, might just about build the outer circle. 😉

    105. Findlay Farquaharson says:

      john young, good stuff, good giggle at that.

    106. Lesley-Anne says:

      I’ve just a wee reminder from my partner about the brick, sorry stone, campaign. Would they accept LEGO bricks?

      If they will accept LEGO bricks will they be specifying ones, twos, fours, eights etc?

      Will the required LEGO bricks have to be of a specific colour or can we *ahem* deliver any colour. I’m sure their *cough* cairn would look lovely as a multi-coloured design with red, yellow, blue, black, green bricks in it! 😛

    107. Robert Peffers says:

      @dennis mclaughlin says: 18 July, 2014 at 7:34 pm

      “O/T We have received our 2 10k Indie flags (black/silver); would like to display them @ PQ on the 29th but don’t have any suitable hand – held poles……any ideas folks?.”,

      Dunnow, about actual flag poles but B&Q do aluminium tubes & lengths of extruded ali and steel sections. A decent DIYer cold do something with those.

    108. Bugger (the Panda) says:

      Robert Peffers

      Saw a few on long bendy fishing rods.

    109. Peter says:

      In other exciting news we discover that John Barrowman was dumped in a bin when he was a child. Which shows a remarkable level of precognition from his parents.

      Also the jokes about “what next, Jimmy Saville” are not too far from the truth.
      The BT posterboy had the endearing habit on Torchwood of sneaking up behind his female co-stars, dropping his pants and whacking them on the head with his penis. I read in in SFX and is in fact a FACT! Sex-offenders for NO, they must be so proud.

    110. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Me and my son always preferred ‘Megabricks’ – you could build something MEGA in just a few minutes!

    111. Harry McAye says:

      I’ve seen some pics on twitter of yes campaigners holding up a magazine called Your Choice. Can anyone give me more info on this? I take it a new Yes paper will be out sometime in August? Very sad that the man featured on the back page of the current issue, former head of the SFA David Taylor, has since died.

    112. Kirsty says:

      I said on a different thread about how sometimes I got so skunnered with people’s comments that it made me think I wouldn’t bother to vote. Mostly, because I don’t want to think that I’m on the same side as them. Peter’s comment is a case in point, I’m all for free speech and fair play to you if that’s what you want to say but fuckwittery like that just puts me off.

      I think I’ll just stop looking at all these fora in future so that I don’t get put off (MSM is no better so I guess I’ll be catching up with my reading until the 18th). Best of Scottish on the 18th, everyone; I’m sure we’ll do it.

    113. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      I wonder if the last YES newspaper, before the referendum, will take some of the greater untruths that have been spread by the MSM this year, and tear them up for $h!†i€ paper?

      Something through the door, rather than having to go online, may take on…

    114. Mark Coburn says:

      Sorry for elbowing in here sideways.

      Just a message to say a massive thanks to all, and Stuart obviously, who promoted, donated, shared and retweeted my fundraising page for the yes groups and Maryhill foodbank. There’s still 11 hours to go if anyone feels like contributing:

      We’re currently sitting at £9,255. That’s 173% of the target which was set at £5,350 (indiegogo fee included).

      Thank you so much!

    115. scottish_skier says:

      I said on a different thread about how sometimes I got so skunnered with people’s comments that it made me think I wouldn’t bother to vote.

      You get unionists on here too. It’s a free forum – quite hard to get banned.

      They’re normally easy enough to spot. You seem to be able to just fine anyway.

    116. Paula Rose says:

      Mark dear – we are so proud of you xxx

    117. Lesley-Anne says:

      Congratulations Mark on reaching another fantastic goal. We’re all so very proud of you. 😛

    118. heedtracker says:

      Slice of bettertogether hypocrisy here of a TGIF from future Lord Alexander of Paisley and ghastly old Graun thinking the unthinkable

      “And if it turns out that they don’t, by however small a majority? “I think it would be a defeat for progressive ideals and progressive politics, and send a miserable message to the world,”

      says one more Labour in Scotland oddity of empire that gave no thought whatsoever the message the world received when they attacked Iraq, now a failed state. Rule Britannia

    119. Kev says:

      (and a very well paid job at that) – Sorry that came out all wrong, I was describing Willie Bain’s salary, not mine!

    120. Lesley-Anne says:

      Hmm, Douglas Alexander *ahem* claims that Solidarity is the basis of his politics. Really? 😉 Has he cleared this idea with Tommy Sheridan? I’m only asking cause I’m sure he would have something to say about Alexander claiming solidarity with anything. 😛

    121. Robert Peffers says:

      @Helena Brown says: 18 July, 2014 at 7:30 pm:

      “I have unearthed a tremendous amount of blue granite stone out of the garden I am quite sure it would build a lovely cairn.”

      Err! Helena, are you sure that the, “Blue Granite”, isn’t Whinstane and actually part of rubble type field drain system?

      You’re perhaps in an area, like my own, where there were previous flood problems. I had a fairly large garden that was just in grass. I wanted to leave a drying green and form four vegetable garden plots so as to rotate crops.

      I planned on having the drying green nearest the cottage to save carrying washing the full length of the garden. Only to find the furthest away area had rubble drains with the soakaways made with whinstane smack in the centre and just under the surface.

      The drying green ended at the furthest point.

    122. Ross says:

      Heartening to see the amount of Yes car stickers today from Paisley to Glasgow and about town. Great to see all the Naw stickers up round the fencing at the concert hall torn off. But the best was a van with a saltire on the door with ‘aye’ through it, then when I got behind it it read ‘tired of being treated as second class citizens? Vote Yes’ or words to that effect along with a quote from the Declaration of Arbroath.
      There’s change in the air.

    123. Haggis Hunter says:

      At least they are being honest and using the correct flag for their campaign. Never understood the no campaign using saltires when clearly they are all for UK, Britain, Greater England, trident,
      blighty etc

    124. Famous15 says:

      If some comments here leave you feeling uneasy and not quite what you would wish from people seeking a better future for Scotland ,remember the internet is anonymous and home to those with opposing views and who would think nothing of printing vicious nonsense to discredit the YES campaign.

      Just saying.

    125. muttley79 says:

      Douglas Alexander always comes out with the solidarity chat when he or his party/cause are in trouble. I cannot remember the uber careerist ever talking about solidarity and the redistribution of wealth when he was part of the Tory lite New Labour governments. So no talk of solidarity for 13 years, from 1997-2010. Suddenly he his always mentioning it. What a chancer…

    126. YESGUY says:

      Peter 7.29

      You cannot be serious ???

      Tell Blair to fuck off whilst in uniform would see ya jailed

      Soldiers take orders and YES they fight. But you make them out to be tattoo wanting hired killers .

      Your ignorance is beyond belief and you have never worn a uniform so what the hell do you know.

      I spent most of my career taking aid to people in war torn areas. Assisting countries with national disasters (mexico city 1984/5) for example.

      You are an ignorant fool. These young lads join up cos theres nothing here for them. They have no choice but to obey orders. You think they have any choice??or opinion ??

      How stupid you are.

    127. ronnie anderson says:

      Ah think Rory,s stuck between a cock an a dark space wie his nose in Camerons crevice,dont be playin wie the rocks Rory.

    128. Muscleguy says:


      If the vote differs significantly from what the pollsters (any of them) are saying, even 60/40 Yes/No and they will mutter about ballot stuffing. ‘Tother way round and no way will they mutter or notice us.

    129. ronnie anderson says:

      I missed that TNS poll on STV 6pm news , Bbc did’nt mention it ,what was the results

    130. Haggis Hunter says:

      @Yes Guy
      Whilst I am a pacifist, I agree that troops can play a vital roll in emergencies and relief work. Like most Scots I have family that served in the army, not thru choice but did their duty. Many of my family served in the Black Watch and endured hardships in WW1, WW2 and Korea.
      As far trident and vanity aircraft carriers, why all that investment? Scotland will do better to build her own oil vessels, like Norway, instead of that work going to China, and aircraft carriers have no return on the investment.
      As for the help the heros, the Brit government should be doing that, not charity!

    131. G H Graham says:

      In a strong German accent …

      “Zayre papers ver NOT een orderh.”

    132. ronnie anderson says:

      @Yesguy at 8.42, Dont engage with idiots (peter)Scottish people might not agree with what transpired with Blair but that is no fault of the Service men/women, & where the Gov fail those XSoldiers the Public put there hands into there pockets,I would hope that any future Indy Scottish Gov treated the Service personel with greater care.

    133. Robert Peffers says:

      @Kirsty says: 18 July, 2014 at 8:14 pm
      “I said on a different thread about how sometimes I got so skunnered with people’s comments that it made me think I wouldn’t bother to vote.”

      Well, Kirsty, here’s a wee thought for you. We old guys will mostly remember the old newspaper cartoons and comic seaside postcards. These often followed a theme. For example a series about the bloke with a sandwich board. You know the type, “The End is nigh”. Another was the large lady, wee husband and very, very large Elephant.

      The one your post brought to mind was the rather worse for wear schoolboy with bloody nose, two black eyes and cauliflour ears. His horrified mum looks shocked and the boy is saying, “But Mum, you should see the other guy”.

      So there you go, Lassie, after considering the gibes of such as Ali Darling and several HOL lords, I think you should perhaps , “see the other guys”.

    134. Paula Rose says:

      @ Haggis Hunter – my sentiments exactly xxx

    135. YESGUY says:

      Thanks Ronnie

      It’s bad enough that charities are helping out our troops when the govt don’t. They drop these young folk like a hot stone and we have to help if we can.

      There was a saying when i served .

      If it was up to the soldiers themselves there would NEVER be any war. We saw it first hand and know the costs.

      It’s Govt that build carriers and send troops abroad. My hope is an iScotland never has to do that. The blame lies with the politicians not the foot soldiers.

      Haggis Hunter . You may be a pacifist but like all humans you have the capacity to kill and destroy just as much as a soldier. You have never been in the position and i hope you don’t ever.

      If i attacked your family and tried to hurt or kill them – what would you do to stop me ? We all have that in us. We would go to ANY lengths to protect our loved ones.

      Pacifists would have allowed Hitler to conquer and kill at will. Pacifists cannot fight evil , some times , not always , sometimes you have no choice but fight.

      Pacifism is a luxury afforded to you by those who have to fight.

    136. goldenayr says:

      Boorach says
      From the Hands across the Border website:

      We’ve now decided that rather than pushing the human chain – which has proved logistically very difficult – we are going to work on something more straightforward and more enduring. So we have come up with what we feel is a better plan!

      It’s probably coincidental but I was just thinking that he has been watching to much Ripping Yarns,”Across The Andes By Frog” in particular.

      I wonder if his new plan is to circumnavigate The Borders by turtle?

      Or climb Mt (Gr)Etna by cricket.Mind you somebody would probably bring a bat,misinterpreting his meaning.

      Ah,the choices you have as an adventuring upper class twit.

    137. Greannach says:

      I feel cheated.first of all, the hapless Rory can’t organise a handful of people to hold hands in northern England, then he can’t get another few souls to put one foot in front of the other. Do we envisage a grand office of state for Rory in the near future.

    138. Bunter says:


      Anyone else concerned how the London papers are all singing from the same anti Putin hymn sheet with their evidence free assertions over the downing of MH17.

      I have learned a lot these last few years and don’t trust a word our UK Gov and its media says. I know I am not alone.

      Quite dangerous for a so called democracy, especially when it is tied to a desperate United States trying to defend its role of world leader by any means.

    139. Paula Rose says:

      @ Yesguy – honey, some of us are sensible enough to not give birth to others – we do however care very deeply about everyone. My ‘bloodline’ may cease to exist – my love for everyone has no end. I might well use my high heel as an offensive weapon, but I desire a world where we embrace each other and devote our energies to such ends. The warlords may think they are winning – I doubt it.

    140. Robert Peffers says:

      By jove I’ve got it! I think I’ve got it”(Mind you I’d probably be better without it).

      Anyway, I think I’ve solved Tory Rory’s puzzle of getting enough feet walking across what Rory fondly imagines is the old English Border. Thing is, as the Angles that named the country of England didn’t get invited to south Britain until after the Romans left it seems his history is a wee bit in error.
      Rory is collecting centipedes in a jars.

    141. BuckieBraes says:

      Perhaps these schemes – ‘Hands Across the Border’ and ‘Border Union Rally’ – have foundered because there is another group of people out there denouncing the very idea of borders, and urging that everyone should vote ‘No’ to them. How confusing is that?

      Independence supporters would almost certainly have more luck in finding like-minded English people with whom to meet up at the border and proclaim, ‘Vive la différence!’

    142. donald anderson says:

      It was nasty “Separatists” maybe the SNP in disguise?

    143. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Anyone know where Jim Murphy’s Roadshow is headed? Does he give advance notice of who he’s about to grace with his upturned milk-crate and gaggle of followers?

      Only asking ’cause he’s a prominent ‘Friend of Israel’, and a lot of people would quite like to ask him, face-to-face, what he thinks about what his ‘friends’ are up to in Gaza right now.

    144. donald anderson says:

      You’re free to go Darling
      There’s no ring of shining gold
      That can hold
      a heart when it longs to be free.

    145. Peter says:

      One of the oft-repeated claims from the Scotland haters is that nobody would want to join the new Scottish Defence Force because they wouldn’t get to charge round the World killing brown people for oil/diamonds/trade/electoral advantage. It is their actual contention that being in a well paid and safe job is not what our brave boys are after. Fuck them and anybody who agrees with them.

    146. Peter says:

      It’s true about Barrowman being a pervert. Amazed nobody commented in public yet. Maybe he’s just another protected BBBC star? Or not enough politically aware people read SFX?

    147. donald anderson says:

      He was also in the Irish Freedom Movement and the Revolutionary Communist Party.

      He’ll support anything
      For his Queen’s shilling.

    148. YESGUY says:

      Paula i know

      I was pissed off at peters comments. And apologies to Haggis if i “sound ” miffed . Not meant and talking is easier than typing.

      I saw an awful lot of bad people in my time. for a long time i was cynical . But i always believed and still do that there is good in all of us. I’ve seen it too.

      We don’t live in a nice world. When Scotland is independent maybe we can be a good example. But to be honest i gave up trying to change the world long ago.

    149. Paula Rose says:

      @ YESGUY darling, arise and be a nation again – we can be what we wish.

    150. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Are there any brewers who would be prepared to offer BTUKOKNOBORDERSNOTHANKers the use of their premises on the off-chance that they might want to organise a piss-up?

    151. Paula Rose says:

      YES – i’d love to meet pipple who want trident rather than care for our elders.

    152. CameronB Brodie says:

      I posted this on the previous thread, but I think it could go here, as well.

      Juteman says: 18 July, 2014 at 6:51 pm

      Banock1314 used a word that is important.

      Croompenstein says: 18 July, 2014 at 3:55 pm

      OT – On Mandela Day a few quotes from the man..

      For to be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.

      Though not a saint I certainly think Mr. Mandela had a lot of dignity.

      Dignity is a concept used in moral, ethical, legal, and political discussions to signify that a being has an innate right to be valued and receive ethical treatment.

      After 307 years under colonial rule from London, Scots will finally have the chance to respect the dignity of our nation and reject the imperialism of British nationalism. Essentially the same struggle as Mr. Mandela.

      Are you up to it Scotland?

    153. Paula Rose says:

      Oh and btw – garden party for plpple who want warships instead of child care.

    154. Paula Rose says:

      Cameron honey – 2 secs please x

    155. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @donald anderson –

      ‘He was also in the Irish Freedom Movement and the Revolutionary Communist Party.’

      Are you referring to Jim Murphy, or John Barrowman? 🙂

    156. Fireproofjim says:

      Yes Guy,
      “Pacifism is a luxury afforded to you by those who fight.” Well said.
      Burns said “Man to man the world o’er shall brothers be for all that”
      Unfortunately there are still would be Hitlers around who don’ believe that

    157. Flower of Scotland says:

      Hi Peter and Kirsty! YOU YES YET?

    158. Paula Rose says:

      To all of you dear pugilists – us pacifists do not care for such stuff.

    159. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      Pacifists box clever.

    160. Lesley-Anne says:

      Pugilists, hmm, are they related to Muggles by any chance Paula? 😛

    161. YESGUY says:


      I hear a lot of quotes here from the Bard and have to admit i need to look more at his writings. I am ashamed to say i don’t know much but slowly i’m learning.

    162. Paula Rose says:

      I care very deeply about our world and its children – how is it possible to have children and vote No?

    163. Willie Bain?

      Is that the SLAB MP who has a tiny face behind that pus-filled permanent Plook?

      He may not get a dose of Sulphur to clear his plook ,but a dose of reality will wipe that smug smirk off his face on Sept 18th – 19th.


    164. donald anderson says:

      Jim Murphy, the other actor.

    165. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @donald anderson –

      Cheers for clarification – never can be 100% sure these days.

      Having said that – right now? Barrowman’s chances of a successful career in Scottish politics are surely somewhat higher than Murphy’s.

    166. donald anderson says:

      It was an absolute shamelss disgrace to see all shameless Labourites dancing on the coat tails of the great Mandela.

    167. CameronB Brodie says:

      For any Naw supporters who think Scotland has been dealt with ethically under London rule, what about the McCrone Reports 1 AND 2, for starters?

    168. Free at 63! says:

      Paula Rose @ 10.32.

      How can you teach children and vote no? How can you nurse sick children and vote no?

      I have 6 grandchildren ( 4 in Scotland )and I am voting for them as well as a number of other reasons.

    169. Robert Peffers says:

      YESGUY says: 18 July, 2014 at 10:31 pm:
      ”I hear a lot of quotes here from the Bard and have to admit i need to look more at his writings. I am ashamed to say i don’t know much but slowly i’m learning.”

      Here ye go then –

      “Caledonian Hunts’ Delight” of Mr. Gow

      There was once a day, but old Time was then young,
      That brave Caledonia, the chief of her line,
      From some of your northern deities sprung,
      (Who knows not that brave Caledonia’s divine?)
      From Tweed to the Orcades was her domain,
      To hunt, or to pasture, or do what she would:
      Her heav’nly relations there fixed her reign,
      And pledg’d her their godheads to warrant it good.

      A lambkin in peace, but a lion in war,
      The pride of her kindred, the heroine grew:
      Her grandsire, old Odin, triumphantly swore, –
      “Whoe’er shall provoke thee, th’ encounter shall rue!”
      With tillage or pasture at times she would sport,
      To feed her fair flocks by her green rustling corn;
      But chiefly the woods were her fav’rite resort,
      Her darling amusement, the hounds and the horn.

      Long quiet she reigned; till thitherward steers
      A flight of bold eagles from Adria’s strand:
      Repeated, successive, for many long years,
      They darken’d the air, and they plunder’d the land:
      Their pounces were murder, and terror their cry,
      They’d conquer’d and ruin’d a world beside;
      She took to her hills, and her arrows let fly,
      The daring invaders they fled or they died.

      The Cameleon-Savage disturb’d her repose,
      With tumult, disquiet, rebellion, and strife;
      Provok’d beyond bearing, at last she arose,
      And robb’d him at once of his hopes and his life:
      The Anglian lion, the terror of France,
      Oft prowling, ensanguin’d the Tweed’s silver flood;
      But, taught by the bright Caledonian lance,
      He learned to fear in his own native wood.

      The fell Harpy-raven took wing from the north,
      The scourge of the seas, and the dread of the shore;
      The wild Scandinavian boar issued forth
      To wanton in carnage and wallow in gore:
      O’er countries and kingdoms their fury prevail’d,
      No arts could appease them, no arms could repel;
      But brave Caledonia in vain they assail’d,
      As Largs well can witness, and Loncartie tell.

      Thus bold, independent, unconquer’d, and free,
      Her bright course of glory for ever shall run:
      For brave Caledonia immortal must be;
      I’ll prove it from Euclid as clear as the sun:
      Rectangle-triangle, the figure we’ll chuse:
      The upright is Chance, and old Time is the base;
      But brave Caledonia’s the hypothenuse;
      Then, ergo, she’ll match them, and match them always.

      Robert Burns.

    170. Paula Rose says:

      @ Free at 63 – indeed, how is it possible to vote No, as we will all know – those who voted No will be a rare breed in a decade whatever the result.

    171. Paula Rose says:

      Robert Peffers dear – can we keep it short, snappy and to the point at this time of night?

    172. Rock says:


      “will they have to cancel the referendum if not enough No voters turn up?”

      They would love to. They never wanted it in the first place.

      Following the secret Westminster poll, the preparations for black operations are no doubt in full swing.

      The virus attack at the Commonwealth Games might just be the starting point.

      There is no depth that the British Establishment will not sink to to protect its power and privilege, as has been the case for centuries.

      Does Cameron and Farage really want to keep on ‘subsidising’ Scotland for their ‘love’ of her?

    173. Paula Rose says:

      Rock dear – I do hope you’ve been out for a natter today.

    174. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Rock dear – I do hope you’ve been out for a natter today.”

      Get realistic dear.

      Do you realise who we are up against?

      The Soviet Union would have been an easier and probably more honest opponent to deal with.

    175. Robert Peffers says:

      @Paula Rose says: 18 July, 2014 at 11:06 pm
      “Robert Peffers dear – can we keep it short, snappy and to the point at this time of night?”,

      Would that be before or after bedtime, M’dear?


    176. X_Sticks says:

      Rory the lonely. Maybe him and wee Davy Mundell could get something arranged. Maybe wave at each other from the top of a wee hill on either side of the border.

      Murray said, “create a virtual cairn” – MineCraft?

      I see you’re rampant tonight Paula 😉

      YESGUY, don’t let idiots get to you mate. Most of us have a great respect for what our forces are asked to do by our politicians *supposedly* on our behalf. I’m disgusted with the way our government treats those damaged while carrying out their duty. Not in an independent Scotland.

      Just got caught up, was up setting up the YesMobile at New Deer for their summer fayre I won’t be up there, but Wings will be represented by Clootie and his better half. Any Wingers in the area welcome.

    177. donald anderson says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Murphy is a ("Tractor" - Ed) to Socialism, Ireland and Scotland. You don’t get much lower.

      Barrowman is just a luvvie and was applauded this week on the Wright stuff for speaking his “Proud Scot, but …” lines

    178. liz g says:

      @ YESGUY 8.42

      Re peter
      What you said about telling Blair to F**K OFF is correct
      no member of the armed forces could or should do that otherwise they would suffer the repercussions.

      Rather it is we the people who live under their protection who should be returning that protection by not letting them be used in such ways.

      That is one [and its a big one] of the reasons I am voting YES
      I want to live in a country where when the people say to those in power F**k off we are not getting involved they do not dare ignore us again.

      For the record. Me or any of my family are not in the forces

    179. Paula Rose says:

      @ Various lovely wingies – we are the campaign for Yes, we must talk to our people and listen to their concerns – who else can do this?

    180. X_Sticks says:

      Paula Rose says:

      “No will be a rare breed in a decade”

      Extinct, even,

      @Paula Rose

      “short, snappy and to the point”

      Oh, indeed you are 😉

    181. Paula Rose says:

      And darlings less of the f*** please, I’m a sensitive soul.

    182. Robert Peffers says:

      @Paula Rose says: 18 July, 2014 at 11:06 pm:

      To be perfectly honest, I went out this afternoon to walk the wee papillon and instead of the usual walk in the country park I took one road into the village, walked the Main Street, and returned via another.

      I spent so much time speaking with people that I got home, fed and fell asleep. So now I’m wide awake but happy to have at least 4 DKs converted. In one case quite a long process of involved questions to answer.

    183. Paula Rose says:

      X_Sticks honey – you’re such a gem!

    184. Paula Rose says:

      Robert dear – we are winning.

    185. Paula Rose says:


    186. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @donald anderson –

      ‘Murphy is a ("Tractor" - Ed) to Socialism, Ireland and Scotland. You don’t get much lower.

      Barrowman is just a luvvie and was applauded this week on the Wright stuff for speaking his “Proud Scot, but …” lines.’

      Aren’t you being just a tad harsh there mister? I mean, come on, Barrowman does good pantomime, eh?

    187. Paula Rose says:

      Ian dear – who is ‘Barrowman’, just asking like.

    188. Rock says:


      “Pacifism is a luxury afforded to you by those who have to fight.”

      And what do those who fight for the British Establishment get?

      Memorials and crocodile tears.

      Blair and all those MPs who voted for the war in Iraq didn’t send their own sons and daughters to fight did they?

      Peter is right – no one actually forces people to become soldiers.

      I am not a pacifist, but given what happened in Iraq, anyone joining the army after Iraq would be well aware of the consequences.

      An independent Scotland will have an army, navy and airforce to defend herself, not to send cannon fodder to die to protect the powers and privileges of the British Establishment.

      If Scotland has brave people willing to fight for their country, there will be no shortage of recruits.

    189. horseboy says:

      ‘Shopping Trolleys for YES’ out in Aberdeen today with ‘TShirts for YES’.

      Wearing my bespoke ‘Bella Caledonia’ tshirt(printed front & back), for 2hours with 100’s shoppers at Asda Brig’o’Dee superstore.

      TShirt & Trolley then tramping along South Anderson Drive, Holburn Street in rushhour, and clocked by 1000’s of cars.

      ps. still wearing daily my favorite, my bespoke ‘Wings Over Scotland .com’ tshirt(printed front & back).

    190. Croompenstein says:

      Been oot tonight and feel kind of jealous after hearing a resounding song..

      God save Ireland, said the heroes
      God save Ireland, said they all
      Whether on the scaffold high
      Or the battlefield we die
      Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

      High upon the gallows tree swung the noble hearted three
      By the vengeful tyrant stricken in their bloom
      But they met him face to face with the courage of their race
      And they went with souls undaunted to their doom

      God save Ireland, said the heroes
      God save Ireland, said they all
      Whether on the scaffold high
      Or the battlefield we die
      Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

      Climbed they up the rugged stair, rang their voices out in prayer
      Then with England’s fatal cord around them cast
      Close beside the gallows tree kissed like brothers lovingly
      True to home and faith and freedom to the last

      God save Ireland, said the heroes
      God save Ireland, said they all
      Whether on the scaffold high
      Or the battlefield we die
      Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

      Never till the latest day shall the memory pass away
      Of the gallant lives thus given for our land
      But on the cause must go, amidst joy and weal and woe
      Till we make our Isle a nation free and grand

      God save Ireland, said the heroes
      God save Ireland, said they all
      Whether on the scaffold high
      Or the battlefield we die
      Oh, what matter when for Erin dear we fall

    191. YESGUY says:

      Robert Peffers

      Thank you. I enjoyed that read . i have a wee copy now of my own , respects. sir.
      I do enjoy your posts even if they are long. What an education i get here.

      liz g

      I should know better liz. Trolls should never be fed. lesson learned. After I left the forces I drove a truck and trained as a nurse, must be the uniform eh haha. these young folk nowadays get little trade training and dumped when they’re finished. As an old soldier i feel so much for them. Much calmer now. Thanks

      I hear you . Big thanks. And the YESMOBILE is superb. IT never ceases to amaze me the creativity of folk. And i should know better, i sat on the sidelines watching the world go by , missing something. This ref has got me buzzing. There’s life in this oldish dug yet.

      Paula Rose – your a tease and i love ya. XXX

    192. Croompenstein says:

      @Rock –

      An independent Scotland will have an army, navy and airforce to defend herself, not to send cannon fodder to die to protect the powers and privileges of the British Establishment.

      If Scotland has brave people willing to fight for their country, there will be no shortage of recruits

      Tear to my eye Rock I am with you all the way..

    193. Paula Rose says:

      (for those of you who are interested, I can honestly say that YESGUY is young, vibrant, good-looking, handsome and a credit to his forbears)

    194. How do the Americans know how the plane was shot down and by which type of missile ?

      Was it shot down ?

      Was there a malfunction ?

      Was there a bomb on board?

      Malaysia Airlines again?

      Bad luck or coincidence or something else.

      How do they know it was SHOT down ?

    195. Sinky says:

      O/T Brian Wilson on about Yes negativity and defending the Tories cuts to the NHS

    196. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Paula Rose –

      ‘Who is Barrowman?’

      Here ye go my friend – fill yer high-heeled boots:

    197. Patrician says:

      @YESGUY, 6:54

      Totally agree Bob

      No voters are C**TS

      Don’t you mean they are CANTS?

    198. Croompenstein says:

      Was listening to the wee cooper o’ Fife and if Cam Bam can sing this line withoot looking like a complete bawbag I might vote naw..

      Hey willy wallachy, how John Dougal
      Alane quo rushety, roo, roo, roo

    199. YESGUY says:


      I agree with you.

      I am an old soldier 78=92 straight from school , and knew little else. Service to your country in any way is an honer , i believed . But not blind loyalty. There was much i didn’t want to do but Peter was spouting vile abuse at these young folk , many still very young and considered children in other countries ,served and were dropped and forgotten. Charity cases when they’re country was bound to look after them as a duty of care. These young folk would risk life to protect you , but they don’t choose who they fight they obey orders.

      No- one forces you to join , yes true. but many here will remember conscription and they fought dirty wars too by no choice of their own.

      Don’t blame the troops blame the govt’s.

      And i mean no offence but must state . If you have never served then you cannot know. Most soldiers know they may have to fight but hardly join up to do so, it’s an escape and an opportunity to see the world. Fighting is the last thing any want.

      I will repeat what i said earlier

      If it was up to the soldiers there would NEVER be a war ever again. We know the cost.

    200. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Paula Rose. Who is Barrowman, the fucker that stole ma Anderson Tartan Jaikit.

    201. Paula Rose says:

      I thought our people joined the armed services to prevent war.

    202. Paula Rose says:

      Ronnie honey – yet another mouthful of wine wasted – you lovely man.

    203. YESGUY says:


      did you listen to the song ?

      paste and copy the link but be warned it’s not for delicate ears so be very careful


      Can also be aimed at the BBC -trolls-any mp’s

    204. Croompenstein says:

      @YesGuy – We have a battle on our hands against the warrior nation let’s pray a democratic vote is enough..

      On dark Culloden’s field of gore
      Hark they shout Claymore, Claymore
      They bravely fight what can they more
      Than die for Royal Charlie

      Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham
      Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham
      Tha tighin fodham, fodham, fodham
      Rise and follow Charlie

    205. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Here’s a traveller’s take on what post-referendum Scotland ’79 looked like:

    206. Ian Brotherhood says:


      At time of posting here it had 99 views.

    207. hetty says:

      I do wonder about the emphasis on the border by bt unionists, because really they most likely would not know the names of places directly on either side and it’s my guess that they do not give a stuff about the actual border or about the areas near or around it, at all, no matter which side of it.

      Regarding the military I am sure I read that the rich bully boys n girls just passed the national service bill through to its second stage, in wasteminster, nice eh. And yes the establishment love lots of young people to remain unemployed, ready made cannon fodder.

    208. YESGUY says:


      We’ll win this one with the ballot box but keep a watch on the crafty buggers, they won’t play fair.

      Ps saw your name and pushed my tea away before reading, you have caught me out a few times and my screen doesn’t need a wipe thank you.

      Paula Rose

      You forgot to mention single , all my teeth and a guid heid oh hair. (wink)

    209. ronnie anderson says:

      @PaulaRose ,hud on to the gless do you know what a Ugalist is, somebody that you could punch in the face awe day, you can punch them stupid they dont care cause they know you would never punch them Beautyful.

    210. Lesley-Anne says:

      Scot Finlayson says

      How do the Americans know how the plane was shot down and by which type of missile ?

      Was it shot down ?

      Was there a malfunction ?

      Was there a bomb on board?

      Malaysia Airlines again?

      Bad luck or coincidence or something else.

      How do they know it was SHOT down ?

      Not sure I can answer all your questions Scott but I’ll give it a try.

      The Americans will have had one of their many numerous satellites monitoring the East of Ukraine for some time no doubt. From this monitoring they can, it is claimed, identify missile launches, other satellites are able to identify, apparently, types of vehicles.

      Working on the assumption, at this point, that they have identified a missile launch then it is highly likely that the MAS flight MH17 was brought down by a missile. I think it is highly unlikely that the flight crashed as a result of a malfunction. Had a malfunction occurred on board the flight the crew would have been able to inform the air traffic control and make adjustments. Even in the worst possible case of malfunction the crew would still have managed to get out some sort of mayday call at the very least. The fact that no mayday call was received by air traffic is indicative of something instantaneous happening akin to an on board bomb or a missile strike.

      The first indicators that investigators will get about what happened will be when they examine the black boxes. An on board bomb or missile strike will be clearly identifiable by an almost instantaneous cessation of instrumentation data and cockpit voice data recordings. The cockpit voice recorder may possibly pick up the noise of the missile explosion/shrapnel striking the aircraft. If any explosion/shrapnel noise is picked up by the CVR then the investigators will be able to identify whether a bomb or missile hit the aircraft.

      At this point everything is conjecture based on known factors like what the Russian supporting fighters in East Ukraine have acquired, what Ukraine government forces have, knowing Russian supporting fighters have no aircraft so it is highly unlikely that the Ukraine government forces will have fired a missile particularly as the aircraft was approaching them from Kiev.

      I think as far as coincidence then I believe it is just bad luck I’m afraid. Not only was MH17 flying along this particular airway but so was a Singapore Airlines Boeing 777 flight number SQ351 and an Air India Boeing 787 flight number AI113. Both of these flights were within 25Km of MH17 when MH17 disappeared.

    211. Croompenstein says:

      @YesGuy – They don’t know how to play fair, they only understand violence and confrontation which is borne out by our experiences on the streets. I sincerely pray that my country votes yes and negates the need for us to take more drastic action to secure our future

    212. Patrician says:

      @YESGUY, 12:09

      Yes, I saw the video. The NOs are CANTS, it ruins the joke having to explain it.

    213. Rock says:


      “Most soldiers know they may have to fight but hardly join up to do so, it’s an escape and an opportunity to see the world. Fighting is the last thing any want.”

      With experience, you will have realised how the army glamourises the job of a soldier with pictures of adventure and serving the country.

      But the reality is very different. Young people are used as cannon fodder to protect the powers and privileges of the ruling classes. And there is no worse ruling class in the world than the British Establishment.

      Why did tens of millions die in the First World War, the start of which Cameron and his gang are soon going to ‘celebrate’ to prevent Scotland from voting Yes?

      So that the imperial rulers could have a game to see who had the best cannon fodder. It was like a horse race for them.

      And as you will know, Scottish losses were much higher proportionately.

      Hopefully, the whole point of having an army in an independent Scotland will be to make your desire – “NEVER be a war ever again” – a reality.

      We might not agree with Peter’s choice of words, but in essence, like us, I think he is also saying that serving to defend one’s country is an honour but to fight in illegal wars is not.

    214. YESGUY says:


      I’d like to think we’re on our way to a YES by now. The fears and scares are being ignored. Some take a while to see and some just refuse to believe anything. But we are getting there.

      This time last year they had a huge lead and we have whittled it away day by day. Every where i go i speak to folk who say YES and the few NO’ers are the usual group, and even then the ones i know won’t even vote. They never do.

      The chance to cause trouble will be when the OO march in Edinburgh . I still see that wee lassies face. And i signed the petition but no doubt it will still go on.

    215. Lesley-Anne says:

      Well apparently the police don’t see any problems with the Orange Order creating chaos in the middle of Edinburgh in September YESGUY. This is from yesterday’s Edinburgh Evening News.

    216. jacksloan2013 says:

      The Hands Across the Border structure, to be called Auld Acquantance, is described by them as a cairn and as a ‘monument to togetherness’ but it is neither of these. It is a walled, circular space against which externally other stones will be built up forming a continuous slope. The entrance to the central space is divided, split by a protective wall.

      Looking at the drawing of the proposal it becomes clear that this form derives from the traditional redoubt, an enclosed defensive emplacement that protected soldiers outside the main defensive line of a fort or castle. The word redoubt means ‘a place of retreat’.

      I can’t think of a more appropriate structure for Rory and Hands Across the Border!

      Might it even form part of a future border checkpoint?

    217. Croompenstein says:

      @YesGuy – The danger is that they didn’t expect what has happened to happen, they thought quite rightly that there was no appetite for a referendum two years ago and it would have been a landslide no if only they had listened to Wendy, but they haven’t given our FM the respect he deserves and he has played them like a fiddle. It’ll be tight yesguy but we are going to free Scotland together..

    218. YESGUY says:


      I agree they did not see this coming.And they cannot contain the grass roots movement


      I heard about it today . The timing of this is planned to show us in poor light, we all know where the police get their orders. Edinburgh will be packed with tourists too

    219. Greannach says:

      Maybe Rory Tory could organise a sack-race along the Great Wall of China to celebrate the union of Worcestershire and Herefordshire. I’ll bet at least four people would LOVE to join in. That’s maybe the scale of numbers the poor lad should be aiming for.

    220. Greannach says:

      By the way… planning permission? Do they have that in remote north England?

    221. kendomacaroonbar says:

      Where were all these guys when the 300 year anniversary of the Union in 2007 occurred

      I don’t recall any big bun fights..? do you guys ?

    222. liz g says:


      I know its no much comfort hen but the OO seem to gain back some of their fading support by having a hissy fit if they think their “right”to march is being curtailed.

      I think they would have preferred to have been refused the march and then they had an “issue”to make trouble over.

      They are best left to get on with it,it really is only an attention seeking exercise.

      Also I have to admit [I know how it sounds] I Would be more worried about this march having an effect on the vote if it was in Glasgow.
      Like I said “no much comfort”

    223. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.

      According to the Kiev Post report: “Ukrainian prosecutor general says militants did not seize Ukrainian air defense launchers”

    224. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova to obtain non-NATO ally status

    225. CameronB Brodie says:

      Of the two countries, Russia and the USA, which one has sponsored international terrorism along Russia’s borders, for over forty years now?

    226. CameronB Brodie says:

      Why would Britain involve itself?

      This speculation lark in a hoot. 😉

    227. john king says:

      “O/T We have received our 2 10k Indie flags (black/silver); would like to display them @ PQ on the 29th but don’t have any suitable hand – held poles……any ideas folks?.”

      Yes go to “GO OUTDOORS” and buy a carp pole which is carbon fibre and weighs very little, probably cost you 20 quid but pretty indestructable as a flag pole and easy to carry because it weighs so little.

      My Saltire is flying proudly from my old boat rod which is being supported by the umbrella pole in our patio table outside and is doing great

    228. thoughtsofascot says:

      Just a sugestion for anyone who comes across a labour activist or MP/MSP

      Take the fight to them. Rather than just say I’m voting yes (take the hint and go away). Challenge them on labours ideals(lol). Where are they labour. Press them and press them about it until they are deeply uncomfortable and arm yourself with as much knowledge of labour as you can.

      The goal is to sow enough doubts. Make the individuals reflect on just what they themselves stand for. You may be able to win over any idealists that are left by stiking at the heart of the party.

    229. thoughtsofascot says:

      Why are they, not where*

    230. john king says:

      “Aren’t you being just a tad harsh there mister? I mean, come on, Barrowman does good pantomime, eh?”

      Oh no he doesn’t.

    231. It is apparent that the House of Lords has been more dangerous to the people and voters of Scotland than has Trident on the Clyde.

      With one cross on the IndyRef Ballot paper, Scots can get rid of both – forever.

      Brown and Darling make vague promises that the english leaders of unionist parties, who actually hold the reins of power – will Protect those few ancient rights that have been left to us as Scots.

      in 2007 Brown and Darling shifted Passport Processing for Scots from Glasgow to Belfast – on the 300th Anniversary of the Act of Union of 1707.

      An act of despicable treachery and spite versus their own people – one month AFTER SNP Won minority govt in 2007.

      In 2011 this current unelected ConDem govt shifted control of Scotland`s ancient borders from Stranraer – to Belfast.

      When we do not control Passport provision – AND – do not control our own borders, it is impossible to prove to any foreign national that we are Scots.

      In Wales you can get a passport.
      In england you can get a passport.
      In Ulster you can get a passport

      Scots have their passports processed in Belfast – in Ulster.

      Presumably, the orange order will sing the 6th verse of the english national anthem during their ante- Independence march on Sept 13th :- sing loud and proud (?)-
      “may he sedition crush
      and like a torrent rush
      Rebellious Scots to Crush
      God Save our Queen” – anthem ends.

      It is obvious that O.O. prefer Ulster – to Scotland?

      Zero shame. Zero sense.

    232. donald anderson says:

      Nazi Germany treated their veterans, wounded and retired soldiers better then the British Imperialists did. Eisenhower had a Veterans Programme. which included Medicare, housing and education.

      British soldier rely on the charity of poppies, Erskine and Sectarian “Help for Heroes” football tops.

      I threw my National Service Cyprus Active Service Medal in the bin. Cypriots and Arabs in the Middle East, where I “served” did neither me or my Country, Scotland, no harm. We “Jocks” were often regarded as “White Wogs”, to use the service racist term in vogue then.

    233. Grouse Beater says:

      The seconds are ticking away until the next Unionist ploy – ‘we must stay united in the face of international terrorism – look what happened in the Ukraine.’

    234. robert davidson says:

      I have it on very good authority from Michael Crick that this was abandoned weeks ago due to lack of interest.
      At the last count Rory had 51 supprters for the walk; Jim Murphy with a megaphone, 47 sheep and 3 ferrets.

    235. I find it amusing but insidious that the SLAB VOTERS and their tory sidekicks know that their lies are hidden under the carpet whilst they are being mesmerised by a shiny chandelier.

      On this website we witness a serial liar (wee duggie) who refuses to acknowledge the lessons of history as he is allowed to carefully choose his terms of debate.

      On currency union, on a central bank, on EU membership etc.

      Let`s take a wee look at the EU member state of – Cyprus.

      Cyprus had zero central bank, before or during Accession to membership.
      (Recently, Russian accounts were plundered in Cyprus)
      One half of Cyprus is Greek.
      Other half of Cyprus is Turkish.
      Greece became an EU MEMBER – long before it`s half-satellite island of Cyprus gained Accession.
      Turkey is not an EU member.

      Cyprus had zero central bank but traded in Rubles,Drachma.Euro,Dollars, £`s etc and proceded to plunder 90 per cent of foreign bank accounts?

      Almost every ex-Commonwealth country that wrested Independence from Westminster had their Currency backed by the Bank of England and the Treasury.

      Many PRECEDENCES SET by Westminster,the Treasury and the Bank of England in the past 150 years , but only Scotland will be exempted by “THEM” from currency backing ?

      During the period between Independence Vote until actual Freedom some years later, Scotland will still be a member of the EU.

      Scotland will still have access to all the EU Courts of Justice and Human Rights wherein we can “TEST” all these historic precedences set by the various arms of Westminster Govt and the Bank of England.

      BTW – Cyprus has 2 x British Army Bases and the same amount of RAF Bases (one) as Scotland after RAF Leuchars is closed in Dec 2014 – after the IndyRef.

    236. Lynn MacRae says:

      @Robert Davidson

      Those ferrets better be careful, Jim Murphy will have them killed and their skins draped round his neck in a flash, dreaming of ermine.

    237. Sinky says:

      Labour No Scotland is rattled over the threats to the Scottish NHS due to the privatisation as both Brian Wilson in Hootsman and Magnus Gardham in Herald are saying the Tory uts won’t affect Barnett funding but ignore Prof Alyson Pollock’s comments on Radio Scotland a couple of weeks ago.

    238. Adrian B says:

      @Scot Finlayson,

      As an addition to your questions on the Malaysian plane that came down in Ukraine and the answers already supplied by Leslie-Anne – I saw this link on twitter (one of many)

    239. CameronB Brodie says:

      Adrian B
      In case you missed my earlier post at 4:43am. I am not claiming special knowledge, simply suggesting that none of us are able to comment with certainty.

      Of significance, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine Vitaliy Yarema confirmed that the Donesk rebels do not have Buk or S 300 ground to air missiles which could have downed the plane.

      According to the Kiev Post report: “Ukrainian prosecutor general says militants did not seize Ukrainian air defense launchers”

    240. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

      Rory should have gone ahead with his rally.

      The BBC would have reported that 35,000 people turned up.

    241. Robert Peffers says:

      @Scot Finlayson says: 18 July, 2014 at 11:51 pm:

      “How do the Americans know how the plane was shot down and by which type of missile?”

      They have electronic surveillance. They listen to the signals, both communications and electronic control signals for weapons. All weapons control systems have an specific electronic footprint. Remember way back in the cold war the Russian Trawlers bristling with aerials? That was electronic surveillance back then.

    242. Robert Peffers says:

      @Ian Brotherhood says: 18 July, 2014 at 11:52 pm:
      Re “‘Who is Barrowman?’
      “Here ye go my friend – fill yer high-heeled boots:”

      What Ian didn’t say,young lady, is that the handsom chap is a reputed well known sex pest who claims he swings both ways. But, hey! It takes all kinds.

    243. dennis mclaughlin says:

      Grousebeater these ‘ dark forces’ our esteemed ex secretary nato general warned us of are sabre rattling…’ll be gunboats at dawn next.
      Meanwhile little Israel murders civilians with impunity, we used to have a United Nations to protect the innocent against aggression…..bbut Uncle Sam bankrolls these vermin.

    244. Robert Peffers says:

      @YESGUY says: 19 July, 2014 at 12:09 am:

      “did you listen to the song?”

      I have now. I spent over 50 years, working in the Royal Dockyards, listening to both RN Naval & Dockyard Matey
      seafaring & industrial language and THAT young lady made even me blush!

    245. dennis mclaughlin says:

      I think we should send Rory the Tory back to Afghanistan to apologise for the complete bollocking mess the U.K. left them all in.

    246. Harry McAye says:

      John Barrowman hits woman “over the head” with his walloper? He certainly is a gifted boy!

    247. MoJo says:

      Labour survey linked above by donaldanderson is ridiculous

      All questions are leading( limited no of tick boxes none of which covered anything remotely relevant to my perspective, values or priorities as a Yes voter) and the only 2 which allow comments in own words are framed emotively ( to engender feelings of insecurity and Salmond hate) along the lines of:

      ‘How will you feel about leaving the UK’
      ( the word YES is not mentioned in the ‘which way are you voting’ section -it obviously sticks in their throat…and leaving the UK sounds so much scarier…) and

      ‘How will you feel if Alex Salmond wins….’
      I suggest everyone fills it in and uses the relevant comment sections to put them right on what this referendum is actually about.

      1/Not about leaving the UK – as UK is no longer relevant as it is a union no longer fit for purpose. Also this is not a vote about ‘leaving’ anything ( including EU by implication – see what they did there…?)

      2/Not about Alex Salmond – but about democracy , and the winners of a YES vote will be the Scottish people ( and hopefully people across UK in long run)

      I encourage as many here as possible to give your own feedback on this questionnaire where you can…

      I also think that this manipulative use of wording will be spotted easily by any swithering Labour supporters with any intelligence and it will be most likely to move them towards YES so another own goal there

    248. crazycat says:


      Unless the survey is submitted every time you move onto another page, it is impossible to send them the results without giving them a donation! I clicked the “donate” button to see where it led, but am not prepared to give them my details (I had to fill in a name – so that they could then address me by it and tell me “You’re great, X” – an e-mail address and a postcode on the first screen, but it did not appear to be necessary for any of these to be genuine) so I have no idea if they will ever read what I wrote.

    249. @Robert Peffers
      I would not trust anything that comes from the Americans .
      They would lie even if they did not have to just to keep in practice. Remember WMD . They have an agenda of destabilization.

      I just hope they do not set there sights on Scotland.

      They are like the eye of Sauron at the Tower of Barad-dûr,not saying Scotland is the Shire, but we do not want to be in the full gaze of America.

    250. Joe M says:

      So, the troll believes all service personnel are war mongering sadists looking for the chance to kill. And he believes that refusing to go to Iraq proves his point. What pathetic claims.

      We all have our own reasons for serving and it’s not shooting foreigners, but when you are in, you do the job you are trained to do. You receive orders and may get to issue orders, but when that order is made it gets carried out, not always without question, but it is not a democracy and, for the most part, you don’t get to ask what your motivation should be. That is how discipline works, and without discipline you are vulnerable.

      Refusing to go to war is not an act of rebellion, it is an act of cowardice. We were/are part of a team, you train together, work together and when it comes to fighting together your mates have your back and they expect you to be covering theirs. Refusing to do that duty would not be a political statement, it would be an insult to your mates and a singularly selfish act. It is better to be part of the team than carry around that shame.

    251. donald anderson says:

      The Labour “survey” would not let me complete it after I twice refused to donate money.

      I put in the but “Alex Salmond makes me feel ….”

      Remember the three Devolution Referendum questions, where even Paxman ridiculed it as saying, for the third question, “are you sure?”. Then there was the 40% ruling in ’79.

    252. Tam Jardine says:

      I had a wee look at the twitter feed for the border union rally. Worth having a look further down at the bizarre list of people contacted to attend. It’s fairly safe to guess that Cheryl Cole did not fancy walking 28 miles of the border in support of the Union.

      Jeremy Clarkson, Fearne Cotton, Stephen Fry, Will Carling as well as a plethora of tory politicians (the PM, included), tuba guy, and the TV networks.

      I think that technical difficulty was that not a single solitary one if these people wanted to go.

      Desperate stuff. And Rory’s cairn is going to be a belter an aw – makes me think of the stonehenge set megalith in Spinal Tap unveiled as 18″ instead of 18′

      Honestly – the better together no thanks ukok vnob camp is like the worst party anyone has ever attended. A shameful thing to behold never mind be part of.

    253. Rock says:

      Joe M,

      “We all have our own reasons for serving and it’s not shooting foreigners, but when you are in, you do the job you are trained to do.”

      I don’t think you are referring to me, but all oppressive regimes survive because cannon fodder blindly follow the orders they are given.

      And the British Empire has been one of the most oppressive regimes the world has ever known.

      Only the really brave with a conscience refuse to fight in illegal wars.

      What exactly has Scotland and Scottish soldiers gained from sending cannon fodder to fight the wars to preserve the British Establishment’s powers and priveleges?

      Apart from perhaps the second world war, Scottish soldiers have not been fighting and dying to defend Scotland.

      They have been fighting and dying to preserve the powers and priveleges of the House of Lords and the House of Commons, the very institutions we are trying so hard to be free of.

      Scottish soldiers, just like the rest of the people of Scotland, have been brainwashed for more than 300 years into thinking they are doing a ‘honourable’ job.

    254. Rock says:

      Joe M,

      “Refusing to go to war is not an act of rebellion, it is an act of cowardice.”

      Refusing to go to the illegal war in Iraq where hundreds of thousands died would have been an act of bravery not cowardice.

      It would have been a major act of bravery if every single Scottish soldier had refused to go to fight in the illegal war in Iraq.

      Are you a British Nationalist jingoist?

    255. Paula Rose says:

      ” Following orders ” – that is a credible defense is it not?

    256. donald anderson says:

      The No Conscription Fellowship was founded three months after the war had started by Fenner Brockway. He was editor of the “Labour Leader”, paper of the Independent Labour Party.
      When the war was announced in 1914 there were plenty of volunteers but Brockway was looking to the future. He knew “not everyone was enthusiastic about the war.” This became “increasingly apparent as the horrors of warfare became increasingly known” (Lomax 2014).
      By early 1915 the rush of volunteers became a “more cautious flow” and calls for conscription intensified. King George V wanted it. Lord Northcliffe, owner of the “Times” and “Daily Mail” was also vociferous (Ellsworth Jones 2008).
      The conscriptionists seized on registration as a first step. The National Registration Act was pushed through Parliament in a week in July 1915. Men who didn’t register were fined or faced gaol.
      So the NCF saw which way matters were heading. They began to make their voice heard. In addition to Brockway they had Catherine Marshall (a veteran Suffragette into non-violence) as a key organiser. They had Bertrand Russell on their committee. And they built links with Quakers and with the Fellowship of Reconciliation.
      When conscription was actually introduced -originally for unmarried men- the NCF successfully campaigned for the legislation (the 1916 Conscription Act) to include a “conscience clause.”
      This clause allowed men to claim exemption from military service on conscience grounds. Nationally about 16000 men claimed this exemption.
      However they had to attend tribunals stuffed with councillors, civic leaders and military representatives. Not surprisingly many claims for exemption were rejected!
      By Alan Stewart

    257. donald anderson says:

      Maybe the Scottish Tory Member for England had bother getting his supporters to hold hand with lighted faggots along Hadrian’s Wa’ was because they couldnae get the faggot to light.

    258. donald anderson says:

      from: Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament
      Date: 17 July 2014 12:22
      Subject: Vote Yes and Ban the Bomb – Help spread the message
      To: Brian

      With only 9 weeks to go before the referendum, Scottish CND are trying to spread the message that a Yes vote can Ban the Bomb.

      Please help by ordering copies of our leaflets and distributing these around your local area.

      We have three leaflets:

      “How to disarm a nuclear bomb”

      Tartan leaflet “Opportunity to ban the bomb?”

      4-page A5 handout “Vote YES and Ban the Bomb”

      All of these can be ordered by sending an email to scnd [at] banthebomb [dot] org or by phoning 0141 357 1529.

      Please let us know which leaflet(s) you would like, how many and your postal address.

      The leaflets are free. If you do wish to make a donation, this can be done on our website (right column)

      Copyright © 2014 Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, All rights reserved.
      You are receiving this email because you added your pin to the “No Nuclear Weapons Here” map, or signed a Scottish CND petition, or are a member of Scottish CND, or complteted an email list form – and indicated that we could send you further information.

      Our mailing address is:

      Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament

      77 Southpark Avenue
      Glasgow, Glasgow G12 8LE
      United Kingdom

      Add us to your address book

    259. Paula Rose says:

      donald darling – nothing to do with light, more to do with lack of arms.

    260. donald anderson says:

      Maybe the faggots don’t want to be set alight

      We stopped burning them on the Mound centuries ago.

    261. James S says:

      Just a follow up on the hands across the border ‘event’.

      8 people turned up for the ‘100,000’ strong walk that was cancelled due to ‘technical difficulties’.

      Eight people went for a short stroll.

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