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Wings Over Scotland

To last throughout the years

Posted on July 12, 2017 by

We’re not often genuinely shocked, readers.

But then we switched on BBC1 Northern Ireland today.

And what we found was the state broadcaster devoting most of its morning schedule to “celebrating the culture” of the 36% of the population of the province who describe themselves as “Unionist”.

[EDIT 13 July: an alert reader points out that according to the latest data the figure is just 29%, with 24% considering themselves “Nationalist” and 46% saying “Neither”.]

This mostly took the form of a 75-minute live programme simply called “The Twelfth”, televising a series of Orange marches in Belfast and Lisbellaw, a small village in Co. Fermanagh, deep in the predominantly Sinn Fein-voting south-west.

But contrary to what one might normally expect from a news outlet required by charter to be impartial, there would be no mention of that fact by the BBC. The entire show passed without even the tiniest passing acknowledgement that the parades might be in any way contentious, or anything other than a delightful and colourful family day out. The exciteable-puppy tone of the reporting was more along the lines of the London Marathon or a Royal Wedding than a gathering of a highly political organisation.

The presenters were especially keen to repeatedly highlight, with open approval, the importance of encouraging young children to take up the banners of bigotry from a very early age to ensure the continuation of “tradition”.

(One interviewee emphasised the use of bouncy castles. Honestly.)

One woman said she didn’t care about anything else – what that “anything else” might have been was coyly avoided – and was only there for the music (which went “BANG BANG BANG PEEP PEEP PEEEEP BANG BANG BANG”, on a loop, forever).

Readers will never guess which Scottish football club was well represented.

The camera lingered lovingly on the standard of the Omagh Protestant Boys.

There was an extended interview segment with a gentleman from the “Gertrude Street Defenders” which gave viewers a detailed guide on the exact procedures for setting up your own Orange Lodge, should you wish to do so.

Nobody was very clear on precisely who they were “defending” Belfast and Lisbellaw from, or who it was they were reluctant to “surrender” to. A casual onlooker might well assume – from the prominence of the word “Protestant” on the banners and flags and drums – that it was Catholics, but nobody wanted to actually say so, or was asked.

Nobody asked why the local shops were all boarded up either.

And nobody played “The Famine Song” this time – at least, not on camera.

We didn’t hear The Orange Hokey Cokey either.

Or the celebratory community’s special adaptation of “I Think We’re Alone Now”.

Fine ancient historical traditions like the military checkpoint were marked.

At one point the BBC actually conducted an interview with “King Billy” himself, as if he were a kindly avuncular Santa Claus-type figure.

Bemused visitors from foreign countries who had no idea what was going on were dragged in front of the cameras to give the “tourist” opinion.

In a break with tradition, several women were allowed to take part in the march.

There was a guest appearance from the fabled Red Honda (Ulster).

The BBC took the chance to unveil the new presenting team for Reporting Scotland.

And tribute band The Protestant Corries.

The broadcast ended with what the presenter, a middle-aged Scottish woman called Helen Mark, described as “A few images that capture the colour and atmosphere of today’s celebrations”, including the selection below.

The South Belfast Young Conquerors were having a ball, though viewers didn’t get to learn what or who they’d conquered.

Surprisingly, the BBC didn’t choose to talk to some of the other attendees who’d come over from other parts of the UK to enjoy the festivities.

And that was that. (Except for the 40-minute highlights show later tonight.)

Almost anything we could say here would be superfluous. We could invite readers to imagine BBC Scotland devoting 115 completely uncritical minutes to live coverage of the recent 20,000-strong Yes march in Glasgow (or the Edinburgh rally in 2012) purely as family events celebrating the centuries-long history of the independence movement. But as everyone knows what they actually do, there’d be no point.

All we can really achieve is to note the event for posterity, because apparently this happens every year but we had no idea until now, when multi-regional iPlayer revealed what the state broadcaster gets up to when it thinks the rest of the UK isn’t looking.

We’re keenly looking forward to BBC America reporting the party atmosphere at the next big Ku Klux Klan event, or maybe getting Nick Griffin to anchor “The Great British National Front Rally” live from Bradford, with swastika face-painting and a singsong from the Junior Blackshirts before burning effigies of minorities.

Because frankly, after this, we’re not sure anything will ever surprise us again.

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  1. 12 07 17 16:56

    To last throughout the years | speymouth

318 to “To last throughout the years”

  1. bobajock says:

    Flabbergasted, befuddled.

    Oh fuck me – what a shitty piece of shit the BBC is.

  2. smithie says:


  3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Thought it was the N I Gay Pride Parade

  4. ScottishPsyche says:

    The weird resetting of what is normal and acceptable continues, courtesy of the BBC. ‘British’ values, huh?

  5. Geronimo says:

    these pictures say it all….words fail me

  6. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Well the had King Billy at the head

  7. Ian McCubbin says:

    Words fail me. Wrong just wrong.

  8. Merkin Scot says:

    May wants unrest here to be able to impose Martial Law.
    She won’t be there long enough but Gove might be.

  9. Tattie-boggle says:

    Aye but its us who are all cult members

  10. jdman says:

    And we’re told we’re a problem?
    shakes head sadly

  11. Thepnr says:

    The BBC is fair and impartial in it’s broadcasting of programs.

    Absolutely fair and impartial says the BBC. That’s you telt.

  12. Capella says:

    Perhaps this is part of the Tory/DUP deal. DUP are now part of the Governments and the BBC is obliged to uphold the Union.
    Get used to your new masters.

  13. Haivers says:

    Re “going home”. Don’t think those guys have thought this through.

    My roots are in the 6 counties. Do Orangemen there really want more of us?

  14. vlad (not that one ) says:

    I think I am in the wrong country. Oh, wait …

  15. mike d says:

    I hope norn irn nationalists and republicans don’t pay these bbc b******s a licence fee.

  16. Fishy says:

    So one and a bit billion then free air time for the 36%……

  17. Proud Cybernat says:

    So much Better Togetherness on display there. The colour, the music, the vibrancy, the spectacle of it all. Oooohh it fair makes you proud to be British, don’t it? The best culture in the whole world – really it is.

  18. HUGH KIRK says:

    I don’t intend to start my own lodge this side of Armageddon and Fuck the BBC.

  19. rigmac says:

    The red honda ulster……cracker

  20. twathater says:

    OMG whoever he is , words cannot describe how fcuked this country is , thank you establishment , and fcuk all you naysayers who have tied us Scotland to this ever increasing madness , I sincerely hope it comes back to you in spades

  21. Mac says:

    Being of this side of the religious divide i can confirm that there are several alternative ways to celebrate your faith and there is no need for displays of this type anymore as all this does is confirm that the vast majority of the faiths followers are not that intelligent!

    This yearly debacle does nothing but cause revulsion and is utterly egregious, reprehensible and has no place in modern society.

  22. Richardinho says:

    I have come to the conclusion that bouncy castles are always disastrous.

  23. Malky says:

    A hate-fest. I did go to a rally in NI once where Ian Paisley and Willie McCrae spued their scripture-riddled bile on to an adoring crowd of drunk, semi-drunk and soon-to-be-drunk of disciples. It was a simple affair, but well attended, of course. But no BBC cameras there that I can remember.

  24. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    A huge section of the NI population do not pay the BBC licence

  25. Alex Grant says:

    Helen Mark regularly fronts BBC SCotland’s Country File.
    Of course she’s regular Ulster SCot so probably thinks this racist bigotry is normal

  26. Fireproofjim says:

    They are idiots but extremely dangerous idiots. I am not surprised that the many sane and decent residents of Ulster keep quiet about this. The “Loyalists”are loyal only to their bigotry and their intimidation of of their neighbours, and behind them are the violent criminal thugs who are often drug dealers, and who think nothing of murder.
    Lovely people.

  27. joannie says:

    Ah, its that time of the year again, when we here in Donegal get swamped by refugees fleeing from the annual hatefest up North. Such a poisonous, backward excuse for culture.

    As for the BBC, words fail me.

  28. chris kilby says:

    What the actual fuck…?

  29. Petra says:

    Well it’s clear what’s going on now. This is to be the new ‘norm.’ The Establishment, Westminster, Tories, the BBC, are ‘desensitising’ us in preparation for full on Ulsterisation of Scotland. Plan B in relation to the scuppering of Independence as someone pointed out previously. It’s extremely telling that they’ve included someone explaining how to set up Orange Lodges and to involve children from a young age. It just makes me feel like vomiting to think that this may be their plan for our wonderful country.

    Ruth Davidson has a lot to answer for and it won’t be forgotten. Meanwhile let’s all make a pact to protect Scotland from any more of this disgusting sectarian bile. Continue to work our butts off to get our Independence and complain enmasse to the BBC.

  30. chris kilby says:

    I sincerely hope this causes a MASSIVE embarrassing stooshie for the BBC.

  31. Capella says:

    Good post from WGD – The Walk of Shame:

  32. Reluctant Nationalist says:

    Ohhhh…I’d rather wear a turban than a sash.

  33. smithie says:

    Reluctant Nationalist says:
    12 July, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    Ohhhh…I’d rather wear a turban than a sash.
    Yes i agree.

  34. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    I actually think we are now at the bottom of the barrel. It can’t get worse than this. What are they they thinking?

  35. mike d says:

    DMH. Good,us scots could learn from them. Give this Joseph goebbels organisation f/ng Nada,zilch.

  36. Alexander Anderson says:

    “Separatists are a cult filled with obssessed weirdos” yell lots of Unionists. Meanwhile, stuff like this is going on…

    What makes these bigoted and sectarian events even worse is that they are being publicised by the state broadcaster as if they are a jolly day out at the fair. Seriously, the BBC should not be endorsing the Orange Order’s activities.

  37. Macart says:

    A celebration of hatred and misery.

    Well done BBC.

  38. mike d says:

    I remember (as others will).being told as a youngster,by slab that a vote for the snp would allow Catholics to be discriminated against in an indy Scotland. A dirty shower of slab b******s whom my hatred has no bounds for.

  39. Gary45% says:

    You pay the licence, this is what you fund.

  40. velofello says:

    Yes I recall the “reasonable” among us saying that, me, and many others attending protests at BBC Pacific Quay, wasn’t the way to act. persuasion of the BBC management on impartiality was the best approach.Still hold to that view?

    I really do now believe we need to be ultra vigilant of the media and the BBC.

    Ulsterisation of Scottish politics, who said that? Who. after, what 2/3 years of weekend semaphore TA games in the Campsies, is now a TA Colon..el? Why? Who, after but a few years in the Tory Scottish party branch is now the leader? Why? Has an ambitious, verbose fool been found by the westminster Elite,and is now being used?

    Over-promoted,ambitious,incompetent persons are a danger.They know not what they do.

  41. Hamish100 says:

    I know quite a number of red , white and blue yooniists whose granny was fae Ulstur, who detest the SNP and Scottish independence yet quietly tell you that they have a Irish Republic passport.– for business reasons.

    Do you think it’s the same granny?

    Talking of flags earlier, since labour and the Tories have banned the saltire in North Ayrshire does that mean Largs Viking Festival can only wave the Norwegian flag? What about the lion rampant? I’ll ask the guy in charge.—– hells bells its the labour yoon Alex Gallagher. Red ensign here we come!

  42. twathater says:

    A wee look at the future of BONNIE SCOTLAND courtesy of the unionist Labour, Tolies , Lie Dums ,and the super duper lying corrupt Brutish Beligerant Cnuts allied to the Dup,

    Nicola the urgency has an increased priority. GET US OUT OF THIS LUNATIC ASYLUM

  43. Brian says:

    Red Honda Ulster is best said in a NI accent

  44. mike cassidy says:

    Surely it is criminally illegal to promote racial and religious hatred.

    Or is the law on this issue in NI different?

    Serious question.

  45. jimnarlene says:


  46. Grouse Beater says:

    I can imagine ‘Ruthie’ smirking at the BBC’s free platform for the bigot, and considering what next she can do to undermine a nation’s democratic progress.

    I’m always cynical about people who don’t understand she is encouraging the worst in people.

  47. ronnie anderson says:

    No time to scan the posts , so i’ll post this in case its not been posted before .

  48. Marcia says:

    I assume this was one of the bribes for the DUP helping the Tories having these sectarian live on the BBC. So the BBC is a tool of the May Government. We knew that anyway.

  49. colin Alexander says:

    They got a nice day for it.

    If only the SNP were as dedicated to Scottish independence as some people are to The Union in Ulster and the West of Scotland.

    Could you imagine the SNP doing anything on this scale to promote independence?

    When pro-independence events take place, the SNP politicians are ofren conspicuous by their absence.

    Too busy enjoying their lucrative salaries from the British state as administrators of Westminster devolution.

  50. Croompenstein says:

    This is a truly sinister turn of events in this annual hatefest, it feels different this year. The thugs are somewhat more emboldened in their disgusting show of hatred and intolerance.

    What reason on earth could the state broadcaster have to try and legitimize these walks of shame. Having the LOL appear with Beattie on Radio Shortbread and now this a full blown reverential showing of this on BBC TV.

    This is very worrying for any right minded person. Are we really going to have to go through another season of ‘The Billy Boys’ being streamed in to our living rooms with not a word spoken against or any sanction taken..

    The lunatics have taken over the asylum 🙁

  51. mike d says:

    Jason smoothpiece. 5.33pm. Oh believe me Jason,it’s going to get a lot worse than it is. You ain’t seen nothing yet thanks to the tory (loyalist) voters of the Scottish colony.

  52. Capella says:

    @ ronnie anderson – interesting memo from the EU. I thought this para was particularly interesting:

    Once triggered, can Article 50 be revoked?

    It was the decision of the United Kingdom to trigger Article 50. But once triggered, it cannot be unilaterally reversed. Article 50 does not provide for the unilateral withdrawal of the notification.

  53. mike d says:

    I think as others have posted on here,before an indy ref2 takes place. The SG should issue a statement saying,there will be no ulsterisation of Scottish politics in an indy Scotland. And a non sectarian Scottish defence force will do what is necessary to stamp out any shows of force by paramilitary forces. Marches parades or otherwise.

  54. mike d says:

    CA 6.48pm. Gie it a rest Colin.

  55. Morgatron says:

    Well fuck me , I just never new they had the technology for colour images in the 17th century!

  56. mike d says:

    Grouse beater 6.43pm. Aye but what she is not taking on board,is that she might encourage the worst in someone who doesn’t agree with her political views. Dangerous ground.

  57. harry mcaye says:

    Don’t pay it any more. I still watch live tv like the tennis today. I don’t close my blinds. If they turn up on my doorstep, they’ll be told to fuck off and told I’m not going to finance lies, propaganda and the glorification of bigotry. If they send me anything in writing, it will get binned.

  58. Almannysbunnet says:

    Can you imagine being a catholic on this “glorious day” in Northern Ireland? Then juxtaposition the recent suggestion from some Unionist fruitcake that Ireland should leave the EU and join with the UK! The children!? Don’t even get me started, poor bastards. This is one seriosly disfunctional disunited Kingdom.

  59. I wonder what the coverage would look like if a parade here featured lots of people in brown shirts?

  60. mike d says:

    Harry get a pitbull dog lives here sign. Lol. That’ll shift the feckers.

  61. Anthony Martin says:

    The BBC has really stooped to new levels by portraying this sickening anti-Catholic hate-fest as if this is some positive contribution to society. There is a Boycott the Sun newspaper campaign on the go at the moment so why not a Boycott the BBC campaign with everyone encouraged to withhold the license fee?
    They are now beyond the pale.

  62. starlaw says:

    When will the BBC show the same reverence to the Ku Klux Klan. An offspring of the same Orange Order.

  63. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Can’t claim to have read every single one of the 4.5k posts on WOS, but I’ve read most. This one has left me nauseous, and that is NOT an exaggeration.

    GA Ponsonby is close to launching a fundraiser for a fresh, comprehensive monitoring of BBC output. Some Wingers have expressed reservations about the project, but others are getting involved. Prof John Roberston is still suffering ill-health after being targeted by the BBC when he dared publish *academic* findings on pre-indyref bias, and he was widely ridiculed by some who should have known better. Worse, he was all-but abandoned by his media-studies peers when he needed their support most.

    Those who should have spoken out three, four years ago must not remain silent – hatchets must be buried and egos set aside unless we want to see the ‘Troubles’ erupting in Scotland. It’s pretty clear what The Establishment is up to. Indeed, it’s so blatant that very few individuals – whether they’re interested in ‘politics’ or not – can claim they haven’t been warned.

  64. Phronesis says:

    The reporter tells us that the live images are being streamed ‘right around the world’. Quite- and the world is thinking can the reputation of the British state and its broadcaster sink any lower.
    In the interest of fair and balanced reporting BBC Scotland should stream images of the next Indy march ‘right around the world’.

  65. galamcennalath says:

    One thing puzzles me. They are staunch British Nationalists so it makes sense they wave their Union Flag. However, why do they wave Saltires?

    Across Scotland the Saltire is the symbol of Scotland’s new found national confidence and self respect. I’m not talking specifically about the Indy movement but the widespread acceptance of our nationhood.

    What do these über Unionists believe our Saltire symbolises?

  66. joannie says:

    @galamcennalath – the Scottish football team probably. Or a Scottish football team anyway…

  67. Brendan O'Neill says:

    I’m just back from a few days at family home town of Newry Northern Ireland/ Ireland. I saw a few parade members at Belfast airport etc so decided to watch some of the coverage today out of interest. Trying not to be biased in any way it did seem like a family atmosphere etc to an extent, however, the coverage was rather bizarre, as the piece said as if it was the London Marathon or the Boat Race. Look here’s a nice wee family from Paisley all sporting matching We Are The People t shirts etc. The professional BBC journalists interview with King Billy was bizarre in the extreme and actually quite funny, strangely nobody present mentioned that he was actually supported by the Pope at the time. Two observations though which I found disturbing are firstly, the BBC and interviewees actively encouraging children to join the Orange Order, wow! Secondly I didn’t spot one black face in the crowd all day. In Newry I saw plenty of black people but strangely not one at the “cultural celebration ” broadcast today. It’d make zero difference if this was an NRA March or something more sinister.

  68. mike d says:

    Ian brotherhood, i think rather than lose Scotland and it’s assets,westminster would rather plunge us into sectarian conflict,and use it as an excuse to send in their armed forces to do to the Scottish nationalist community,what they did to the Irish nationalist community. Be very afraid.

  69. Glamaig says:

    galamcennalath says:
    12 July, 2017 at 7:53 pm
    However, why do they wave Saltires?

    I’ve seen photos of Tories campaigning with Saltires too. I could be wrong but I think this is a new thing. Probably trying to reclaim it, or dilute its meaning or something.

    re the OO walks, as someone has said up thread, its hard to imagine republicans with tricolours, or independence campaigners with Saltires, who are expressing their cultural heritage just as much as the OO, getting any coverage at all. Only ‘British’ cultural heritage is approved.

  70. joannie says:

    Interestingly, they never wave the Welsh dragon. The Union Jack, the England flag, the Ulster flag and the Saltire all get besmirched by their grubby hands, but the Welsh dragon escapes. Lucky Wales.

  71. mike d says:

    Phronesis 7.50pm. Ah but the rest of the world probably thinks (wrongly)that this is a British love fest. You can bet that auntie hasn’t shown them the bonfires with the Polish,irish,kat (kill all Taigs) flags etc.etc. f/ng scum propaganda ebc.

  72. Ken MacColl says:

    a)I too was aghast when one of the presenters suggested that those images were being broadcast “around the world.”
    Wouldn’t Murdo be proud?
    b) What leads Phronesis to think that BBC Scotland has any remote interest or commitment to “fair and balanced reporting when our day to day experience is so contrary to that ideal

  73. Effijy says:

    This should be a performance in a Zoo where the wild beasts are safe behind bars.

    For the price of a junior uniform, a drum, a flute, or a flag, the young feed on their parent’s Sectarian Hate

    They learn to embrace Racism, Homophobia, and a belief that they are part of a superior race with a superior religion that reigns over all others.

    The Future is Shi*e, the future is Orange!

  74. Moonlight says:

    So this is what Elizabeth Saxe Coburg’s province has come to. Any of that in Scotland and I am off to join the Catalans.

    Have to say that in (now Tory)North East nobody gets it. I don’t even know if my neighbours go to church, never mind which one.

    O/T I wrote to Duguid MP asking him to demand that Scotland get the same money per head as NI. I have not had the courtesy of an acknowledgement, never mind a response.

  75. Glamaig says:

    Ian Brotherhood says:
    12 July, 2017 at 7:46 pm
    ‘GA Ponsonby is close to launching a fundraiser for a fresh, comprehensive monitoring of BBC output. Some Wingers have expressed reservations about the project, but others are getting involved. ‘

    I’m going to support it. His book ‘how the BBC won the referendum’ is superb and it just scratches the surface. Loughborough University have been doing good work too, like this

    We need data and academic rigour, otherwise we are just more people saying the BBC is biased. Everybody thinks the BBC is biased against them, even Tories! Its human nature, we dont notice when they are favouring us but we sure as hell notice when they dont. Its complicated because you have to consider what they could have reported but didnt, as well as the balance in what they did.

  76. Petra says:

    @ Mike Cassidy at 6:36pm …. “Surely it’s criminally illegal to promote racial and religious hatred.”

    Good point Mike. The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, for example inciting hatred on the grounds of religion, applies to England and Wales. I don’t think that we have an equivalent law here. Someone may correct me on that. What we do see is that when the SNP try to deal with the issue, to some extent, the Unionists and Greens are hellbent on scuppering it. However putting that to one side still begs the question as to why the BBC, based in England, is getting away with promoting such a hatefest for the first time as far as I know? This of course has been par for the course with Westminster’s actions worldwide, in particular when countries have made moves to get their Independence. Let’s hope that someone will take the BBC to task on this, better still to Court.


    @ Marcia at 6:48pm …. “DUP bribes.”

    That’s what this boils down to Marcia. Wee sneaky verbal agreements. Tories via BBC / MSM in general to promote the Orange Order, “Now is not the time” for Scotland progressing to “No surrender, ever” and probably the abolishment of the Parades Commission.


    On the BBC website: Nicola is going to Brussels on Thursday morning to meet Barnier prior to the second round of UK/EU negotiations next week. Now wait for this ………. The Scottish Libdems have urged Nicola to push for an acknowledgment that Brexit can be cancelled and that the British people should have the final say on whatever deal is negotiated. Beggars bl**dy belief.


    The news on STV was very positive tonight for a change. Unemployment at an all time low, inward investment on the up and up etc, etc. Then we got hit with the downer. Another ‘wait for it’ moment ……… TOO MANY tourists are visiting Edinburgh. Tourists were interviewed and love the place, people, history, architecture and culture, however the boss of Historic Edinburgh, a guy with an English accent, said that Edinburgh can’t cope. Edinburgh has to consider the indigenous population in relation to housing, hotels etc.

  77. Sunshine on Crieff says:

    This is not a new thing, and the BBC’s comprehensive coverage had nothing to do with the Tory/DUP deal. The BBC in Northern Ireland have always covered the July 12th marches, reflecting the Orange Order’s status in NI’s culture, politics AND governance – the Order was once an actual part of the decision and policy making structure of the Ulster Unionist Party, the governing party throughout Northern Ireland’s history until the old Stormont was proprogued. You can be damned sure the the OO had members in the BBC hierarchy during that time.

  78. Clootie says:

    …disgusted by the bigots…but even more disgusted by the BBC!

  79. Fireproofjim says:

    Crossing the Water

    Oor Billy left his ain fireside
    In Govan by the River Clyde
    With sash and flute and sky-blue coat
    Set off for Stranraer and the boat.
    July the Twelfth it was the date
    And he was off to celebrate
    In Belfast by the River Laggan
    The festival of Knuckle Draggin’

    With Billy, comrades loyal and true,
    Defenders ‘gainst the Papist crew.
    From Ayr, Coatbridge and fair Larkhall
    They rallied to the sacred call.
    No common ordinary team
    They really were the Orange cream.

    Their spirits rose as sea miles passed
    With Special Brew and sweet Buckfast
    The hours flew by in song and jest
    And how King Billy was the best.
    And each compared their Loyal tattoos
    Till sleep descended full of booze.

    Now at the dawn they proudly sat,
    With banner flute and bowler hat.
    “Right Lads! Tak up yer flutes and drum.
    We’ll let them know the Billys come.
    So doon the gangway tae The Sash.
    Sandy! Gie the drum a bash!”
    So proud they marched along the quay,
    As usual just a touch off key

    But something was a wee bit troublin’
    A board said “WELCOME, FRIENDS TO DUBLIN!”

    So if you go to Dublin City
    It really would be quite a pity,
    To miss the latest thing on view
    In that fine city’s splendid zoo,
    For lurking in their fetid lairs
    Are several troops of Orange Bears!

  80. joannie says:

    And you can be damn sure the OO still does have members in the BBC hierarchy now, and not just BBC NI either.

  81. Giving Goose says:

    In all honesty I’ll bet that the queen is actually completely embarrassed by what goes for loyalty in N Ireland.

    If the recent subliminal wearing of the Euro Union colours at Parliament is any indicator then I’m also willing to bet that she is a reasonable person.

    Of course she wouldn’t be able to openly express her thoughts but who wouldn’t be completely embarrassed by these Loyalist goons.

    It’s probably worth starting a petition similar to the one about the DUP/Tory agreement, to have the Queen publicly disown these organisations in the name of community cohesion and a tolerant society.

  82. jfngw says:

    It’s clear the media and the BBC in particular have been instructed to ‘normalise’ the OO with positive reporting. They are putting their back into this, but we can all see the pictures and how corrupt the establishment is when it needs to retain power.

    There is only one answer to this for Scotland, but are the public awake enough to understand. To be honest the Tories are rightfully taking the flak but there is a strange silence from the other parties.

    We need to make these type of celebrations illegal in an independent Scotland, no events that are based on the demeaning of any other section of the community. The SNP have nothing to lose here, I can’t imagine they receive a single OO vote.

  83. boxon chavez says:

    They should be called the Billy Broadcasting Corporation

  84. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Sunshine on Crieff (8.24) –

    That’s an important point which needs clarification for many of us.

    BBC NI has covered this event in similar style previously? If so, that should be acknowledged. I’ve never ever been aware of it being given live coverage by the BBC as a ‘cultural event’, and I certainly don’t remember it ever being commented-on as such in here.

  85. Highland Wifie says:

    That’s it – I’ve reached my red line. Totally disgusted. Have put up with anti Scottish/anti SNP/anti independence bias etc etc from BBC for so long but this is in a different league.
    Letter going to BBC explaining why I am no longer paying licence fee. NEVER going to subsidise this level of depravity.

  86. Bugger (the Pandsa) says:

    chris kilby says:
    12 July, 2017 at 5:00 pm
    I sincerely hope this causes a MASSIVE embarrassing stooshie for the BBC.

    BBC London was told to order it

  87. heraldnomore says:

    Hey, Colin your getting mair Rock than Hard Place, and the pair of
    are just intensely boring. Why don’t you both go and start an online outlet soemwhere.

    Share the readership stats every month will you. Otherwise…

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    ronnie anderson says:

    “12 July, 2017 at 6:48 pm
    No time to scan the posts , so i’ll post this in case its not been posted before .”

    I think this is the full clickable link Ronnie poster earlier.

  89. Glamaig says:

    Ian Brotherhood at 8:44 pm

    Also, has it got bigger this year ? I’ve been aware of the marches before but so many? Have the bonfires always been that size? They are ridiculous, and in ridiculous places. Has it always been like that, or have they been boosted this year by the Tory/DUP deal and the end of power-sharing?

    NI usually gets zilch coverage so we wouldnt know.

  90. chocolass says:

    Shocked and thoroughly sickened by the coverage.
    To see racists and bigots bringing their children into the ‘fold’
    – surely a form of abuse ?

  91. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Glamaig –

    Ditto – don’t recall ever seeing such huge piles of pallets. (Depressingly, they are reminiscent of ancient Scottish brochs…)

  92. frogesque says:

    Would it be an appropriate time to raise a wee glass and salute the ‘little Gentleman in the black velvet coat’?

  93. Robert Peffers says:

    @mike d says: 12 July, 2017 at 7:17 pm:

    “CA 6.48pm. Gie it a rest Colin.”

    I had not intended to ever make reply or reference to that bloody idiot ever again, mike. I will, however make a salient comment just this once.

    Leave the bloody fool along, mike, for he will do far less harm to the cause of Scottish independence here on a blog of mainly dedicated indy supporters than he will perhaps accomplish among those who would see our cause fail. We do NOT though, have to encourage him further than we already have. done.

    It is one thing to engage with these people until they are encouraged enough to openly show their hand.

    After they have shown their real objectives to the less aware you then just ignore them and let then get on with it here where they can do less harm.

    It’s like my old Grandfather used to say when I was a wee laddie running around the farmyard getting into mischief:-

    “Leave the wee laddie alain, it keeps him oot o the road o the fairm cairts.”

  94. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I’ve been looking into when all this started. As far as I can make out the first programme of “The Twelfth” on BBC was in 2007, the same year that Ian Paisley of the DUP became First Minister of Northern Ireland.

    Coincidence? I think not. So I’ve emailed the BBC earlier today
    before I’d did much research with a FOI request as questions need to be answered. Such as why does the state broadcaster subject people to this shite!

    Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 please provide answers to the following questions relating to a programme broadcast today (12/07/17) in Northern Ireland called “The Twelfth”.

    1. This programme has ran since at least 2015. On what date was this programme first commissioned?

    2. Which individual or group requested or suggested that this programme be made?

    3. Which individual or group within the BBC was responsible for commissioning the programme.

    I look forward to your response.

    Sick of this so I am and I’m going to let them know it.

  95. colin alexander says:


    Someone else said the same. Only one SNP MSP: Sandra White came to talk to the recent pro-indy marchers.

    I’ve already sung that lady’s praises on this site. I think she is a fantastic MSP who has never lost touch with the people. Down to earth and cares.

    I’m happy to admit Nicola Sturgeon knocks her pan in with the work she does at election time and you see by the end, she’s exhausted looking, but too many of the rest of the professional SNP politicians?

    Too many leave it to the unpaid volunteers to do all the work.

    Too many SNP politicians now regard themselves as VIPs it seems.

    As if they are too important to walk on the streets with the plebs in support of independence.

    Anyone, lets see lots of proof to refute these allegations, instead of threats. I’m willing to be proved wrong.

  96. Thepnr says:

    Another thing, the BBC claim to keep you the license payer up to date with FOI requests if you want them, even states “You can also subscribe to our RSS (news) feed to see the latest disclosures that we have made in response to requests.”

    Yet go on their website and you’ll find that the most recent disclosures under FOI are from 2014!! What’s the point of that?

    I guess the grassroots Yes movement had something to do with that. Overwhelmed and forced to retreat. Oh and a by the way I posted a while ago, the latest figures for non payment of the telly tax in households were Scotland 10%, NI 9%, E&W 6%.

    “Special circumstances” apparently in NI and Scotland.

  97. ronnie anderson says:

    Robert Peffers 9.01 Thanks for the correction Robert . I knocked of the http before I posted

  98. colin alexander says:

    Why so much concern about the OO on here? I don’t get it.

    Okay, I can understand you don’t like it, despise it even.

    However, these ( the Scottish version) are people that you will never convert to YES or very few of them.

    So much publicity for them does nothing for the independence cause. I feel it just gives them more publicity and could be counterproductive.

  99. mike cassidy says:

    Scottish hate crime legislation is currently under review.

    The relevant page as of 07/07/17.

    As for Northern Ireland.

    Well, here’s a link to the relevant police page.

    “Nobody deserves this and nobody deserves to get away with it”</b"

    Laugh or cry?

  100. mike cassidy says:

    Scottish hate crime legislation is currently under review.

    The relevant page as of 07/07/17.

    As for Northern Ireland.

    Well, here’s a link to the relevant police page.

    “Nobody deserves this and nobody deserves to get away with it”

    Laugh or cry?

  101. colin alexander says:

    @Robert Peffers

    I agree with you. Anyone that does not like what I say, please ignore what I write.

    Or if you think my comment is untrue, refute it with facts. Prove to everyone that I’m talking mince, if I am.

    Don’t waste time with insults or threats, as that just encourages me.

    “Jist leezalane”.

  102. colin alexander says:


    Many of the Ulster Unionists are descendants of Scots sent to colonise Ireland in the plantations.

    They are proud of their Scottish ancestry / heritage so use the Saltire.

  103. ben madigan says:

    As the rev stu wrote “this happens every year”

    I hosted a house-party about 4-5 years ago
    My European guests had heard a lot about the glorious 12th and were keen to see it – but not keen enough to get up early, seek parking places and turn out for the event itself.
    We watched it on the BBC.

    One man, a retired intelligence officer, was flabbergasted.He sat up straight in his armchair “What kind of state allows this” he muttered.”Would never happen in my country”

    A couple of the ladies enjoyed the pagentry in the country parades “Aren’t the horses lovely” “look at his hat”

    All were very turned off by what they watched. They said:
    “it’s really horrible”.
    “switch it off”
    “they celebrate this?”
    “And put it on the BBC?”

  104. Mad McMax says:

    So, this is part of the price demanded by the DUP as part of their supporting an illegitimate government, and the BBC rolls over at the request of their Tory masters.

  105. Seumas says:

    Am confused ? Why are the Ulster Scots descendants of the “planted” in Ireland, telling the indigenous Irish of Ireland to “go home” to….er…..Ireland ?

  106. Thepnr says:

    So I think this programme started in 2007 when Ian Paisley became First Minister.

    I wonder then if the Brit establishment also didn’t want an Independent Ireland as that kind of thought could easily spread throughout the UK including Scotland.

    Wild speculation indeed but there is no doubt that the BBC have been a key player in keeping NI under DUP control. We thought it was just us too that were subject to the propaganda and brainwashing of the BBC.

    Ditch it, give them nothing. Don’t be paying for lies to be broadcast straight into your living rooms. Losing control is what they fear most, so take the control away. You own it.

  107. Truth says:

    Glad I’ve never funded this.

    Stop paying the telly tax now. With a change in habits it’s perfectly legal to do so if it worries you.

    Meanwhile, with 10% of households in Scotland (higher even than NI) not paying the tax, there’s even less chance they’ll get round to knocking your door anyway.

  108. Fred says:

    Excellent book “Irish” by John Burrowes who estimates that a quarter of the Irish who fled the Famine to Glasgow were Protestants. Their descendants nooadays look a bit over-nourished!

  109. W. Habib Steele says:

    When I was a child and youth, the only time we saw most of the Orangeists in the kirk was when the ludge had a church parade. They did not hold to, or even know, the beliefs of the churches. They were not Protestant Christians; they were merely anti-Roman Catholics. It seems that that is still so today.

    Why do not the churches in N Ireland and Scotland speak out against Orange-ism? Why do they not teach a way of love to the Orangeists?

  110. W. Habib Steele says:

    When I was a child and youth, the only time we saw most of the Orangeists in the kirk was when the ludge had a church parade. They did not hold to, or even know, the beliefs of the churches. They were not Protestant Christians; they were merely anti-Roman Catholics. It seems that that is still so today.

    Why do not the churches in N Ireland and Scotland speak out against Orange-ism? Why do they not teach a way of love to the Orangeists?

  111. Smallaxe says:

    Any thoughts Folks?

    Scotland In Union
    Hello Mr Y.Oon
    At Scotland in Union we want to hear your thoughts on why you believe Scotland is better off as part of the UK.
    There are many different perspectives that we are looking for, such as political, cultural, rational or even emotional reasons, either way it’s totally up to you.
    We are looking for this to be in the form of a short essay or perhaps even a short video clip, again it’s totally up to you.
    At Scotland in Union we want to allow our supporters the chance to use our platform to air their views and feelings about how they see the current political climate.
    All we ask is that all responses are sent to us directly and that they are not from a party-political standpoint, and no derogatory language either, of course. Let’s keep it clean and to the point.
    If you want to send us your short essay or video clip then please send it to and one our team will get back to you as soon as possible.

    Thank you once again for your continued support.

    Scotland In Union

    Peace Off

  112. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    Cheers for doing that digging.

    BBC NI has been delivering this stuff for a full decade then?

    No doubt this coverage ticks some boxes to do with ‘cultural diversity’, ‘voices in regions’ etc etc, all ‘positives’.

    Here’s one I’ve mentioned before, but is apt: 20 years ago I went, with my brother, to a BBC event in Edinburgh aiming to interest young writers in doing original drama for radio. The guy leading the thing was a prominent BBC producer. It was all very slick and interesting.

    Come the Q&A session, he was asked what would improve the chances of an ‘on-spec’ submission clearing the first hurdles. He mentioned a few obvious things, then said, ‘Be careful in your choice of accents. For example, Northern Irish accents tend to be, well, not easy on the ear, if I can put it like that. Our research tells us that listeners tend to reach for the off-button or switch stations.’ Cue nervous laughter from the audience…

    This was said in a public forum. There may well have been ‘young people’ from N Ireland in that lecture theatre – if so, they went away with a pretty clear idea of how much their stories/experiences were valued by the venerable BBC. I won’t name the dude but if Grouse Beater reads this then I’m sure he’ll back-up what I’m saying as reflective of BBC attitudes ‘back then’. There’s scant reason to believe they’ve changed a jot.

  113. Lochside says:

    What an unbelievable obscenity this is….deliberately characterising a hatefest as some kind of exciting cultural event!
    If any kind of legal action required justification for action against the BBC, then this is it.

    30 years of civil war sparked off by these scum and their tinpot wee province. A fabricated state ripped out of the heart of Ireland by the corrupt Brits in order to prevent the Loyalists fighting against Britain. And they’ve been bribing them ever since.

    Fake flag ( English cross with the real Ulster Province Red hand grafted on); fake religion ( Presbyterian Scots were second class ‘dissenters’ for a hundred years..banned from the Episcopalian OO until needed to fight the United Irishmen led by Presbyterians and Catholics together); fake ‘loyalists’…they hate the English as much as Rangers fans do, because most of them are anyway, or mini me Rangers:Linfield supporters ( Check Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Wolverhampton etc. riots); fake state ( ‘partition’ was illegal and based on religious settlement, not historical or geographical requirements;fake history( hundreds of thousands of Presbyterian Ulster Scots got out in the 17th and 18th century due to Anglo ascendancy and headed to the US, where they fought en masse for the Independence of the USA against their ‘beloved ”Crown’.

    Even the ‘Famine song’ an insult to a great Beach Boys song and an even bigger insult to the starving Irish ( all British subjects) who died or fled the famine to live in another part of the Empire i.e Scotland. And a third of them were Protestant Irish.

    And yet….the softening continues..Torrance…Fraser….Colonel Blimp…all pushing the ‘Ulsterisation’ meme…the para military thugs protected and living in our west coast towns. We must call out the BBC sooner than later. Mr Ponsonby has stuck to the task of monitoring the BBC almost exclusively…rightly…so let’s back him to provide the evidence which we must take to the EU courts before it’s too late to do so.

  114. Cadwaladr says:

    Just wanted to back up what Sunshine on Crieff said at 8.24pm. This sort of coverage has been going on for years.

    I’m from Wales but have many friends in the six counties – most are republican/nationalist but a couple are unionists. I remember one of the unionists proudly showing me BBC coverage of the 12th – it must have been in the early nineties. At the time, I was as shocked as Stu is now at the nature of the coverage.

    I pointed out that the whole tone (of the coverage not the event) was similar to what you would have in Wales in relation to the Eisteddfod (our major literary/music festival). And this despite the obvious political, sectarian and divisive nature of the 12th “celebrations”.

    My friend who is usually pretty sane completely lost the plot saying that I had no understanding of their culture.

    The point, I think, is the complete lack of self awareness that pertains to elements of the unionist community and the normalisation of things that would be viewed as very abnormal almost anywhere else. The other point of course is the rank hypocrisy and collusion of the BBC. But that won’t be news to supporters of Scottish independence.

  115. Smallaxe says:

    2900 jobs coming to Edinburgh, I wonder who will have to pay the salaries. Any ideas?

    Peace Always

  116. Capella says:

    Well Gary Robertson, Bill Whiteford, Gillian Marles, Louise White, John Beattie, Gordon Brewer, Kay with an e, are you proud of BBC Scotland now?
    Channel of bigots and xenophobes, climate change deniers, creationists, anti gay, anti abortion, anti catholic, anti human rights. Tory shills.

  117. Robert Peffers says:

    @Moonlight says: 12 July, 2017 at 8:16 pm:

    ” … So this is what Elizabeth Saxe Coburg’s province has come to.”

    In 1714. Queen Anne died without issue. Thus the Stuart line ended abruptly. Her 50 odd closest relatives were all Catholics and so very distinctly persona non grata as United Kingdom Royals. So they were passed over for Georg Ludwig, the Protestant Prince Elector of Hanover who got the job.

    So the United Kingdom Royal house changed from Stuart to Brunswick-L?neburg-Hanover, with its connections to the ancient German royal houses of “Welf and Este”

    Accordingly, the House of Hanover thus ended with Queen Victoria, and so Victoria’s descendants took the dynastic name of her husband, Prince Albert, which was the German family of, “Saxe-Coburg and Gotha”, which is a branch of the eminent , “House of Wettin”.

    In WWI Kaiser Bill was Queen Victoria’s grandson and the United Kingdom’s, King George V’s first cousin. So because of the anti-German feelings George V changed the name of his royal house from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor. This was the beginning of the United Kingdom Royal Family using their surnams instead of the overall dynasty name.

    On her accession to the throne Queen Elizabeth II chose to keep the name Windsor, and in 1960 the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh announced that those of their descendants who do not have an HRH title be known as Mountbatten-Windsor. However, Mountbatten is the Duke of Edinburgh’s adopted name. His German-Danish-Greek royal lines are, “Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Gl?cksburg” on his father’s side, and, “Battenberg on his mother’s side.

    So there you go – That is the pedigree of the Queen of England.


    “O/T I wrote to Duguid MP asking him to demand that Scotland get the same money per head as NI.”

    There is good reason why you don’t get an answer, Moonlight. It really is a question that should not be asked as you obviousl do not know the reason the per capita Block Grants for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales are of different values. I’ve posted this explanation several times on Wings but it can stand another airing.

    When the Westminster Establishment decided, (or rather were forced), to introduce Devolution to only three of the four bipartite United Kingdom’s countries they made a right dog’s breakfast of devolution. They had, of course, their own underhand motives.

    So first let’s just understand what devolution actually is.

    It is the removal of some United Kingdom Ministry’s functions and giving, (devolving), them to the new parliaments of Northern, Ireland, Scotland & Wales. However, that also means they had to also devolve the funding to run those functions because the devolved parliaments had no tax raising powers.

    So, because they gave most devolved functions to Northern Ireland, the next most to Scotland and the least to Wales then N.I. got more per head than Scotland and Wales got less than Scotland. England got none because Westminster thus became the de facto parliament of the country of England that still gets funded as The United Kingdom,

    So you cannot simply allocate per capita funding upon the number of people in each devolved country as it is supposed to be the funds transferred from the UK ministries for the functions devolved. That is thus what the Barnett Formula is.

    It is NOT as many think NEEDS based but depends upon the level of the powers devolved from Westminster, (UK), ministries.

    In point of fact the great majority of Westminster MPs of all parties, (and believe me I have questioned more than a few), do not know what the Barnett Formula is or what it is meant to do.

  118. Petra says:

    @ Mike at 9:46pm …. “PSNI site.”

    I’ve just had a look through that site and see that the NIrish Police are running a hate crime campaign. Their ‘voices’ videos cover homophobia (you couldn’t make it up), racism, disability and transgender. Not one video relating to religion. A Policewoman says “Let’s stand together to target hate crime.” Eh!

    They have leaflets that cover the aforementioned categories and one relating to religion depicting a miserable looking Muslim woman standing at a broken window. Why not one showing a miserable looking Roman Catholic woman holding rosary beads? Ludicrous example I know in light of the overall situation. Anyway you’re advised to report to the Police if you consider yourself to be the victim of a religious incident. The mind boggles. It’s not just strange, it’s downright sinister and reminds me of the story of the Emperor with no clothes.

  119. Robert Peffers says:

    @Sunshine on Crieff says: 12 July, 2017 at 8:24 pm:

    “This is not a new thing, and the BBC’s comprehensive coverage had nothing to do with the Tory/DUP deal. The BBC in Northern Ireland have always covered the July 12th marches,”


    There’s always at least one on Wings. Here that one is.

    The BBC has indeed always covered the 12th “IN NOTHERN IRELEND”, as a regional news item. There was always scant or little made of it in the rest of the UK with perhaps a bit aimed at the West of Scotland and perhaps even a bit in the Liverpool area where there is also a bit of sectarianism reflected in the Liverpool, (Protestant) vs Everton, (RC), football rivalry.

    However there was little or nothing made of it on a UK wide basis as there has been this time round.

  120. Capella says:

    Andy may be out of Wimbledon but he is still sharp as a knife in combating casual sexism. Bitter news for xenophobic, sexist BBC.

  121. Graeme Doig says:

    “Too many SNP politicians now regard themselves as VIPs it seems”.

    I believe the onus is on you to back up your claim rather than expect anyone to refute.

  122. North chiel says:

    Ref ” small axe @1049 pm” ( New Hub) , a new propaganda outlet/ spy network for the Westminster establishment in the heart of our capital. No doubt the hierarchy/ management will be
    brought in from ” darn soufflé” to further assist the ” Scottish office”, undermine our democratically elected Holyrood government . ( reinforcements for the colonial regime).

  123. Thepnr says:


    Scotland In Union have not gone away, in fact I suspect one or two of them are pissing themselves laughing at us on Wings when we respond to their posts.

    I mean that, why wouldn’t they come on Wings and cause mischief?

  124. heedtracker says:

    There’s surely no doubts left that the BBC is nothing more than a modern day Pravda.

    Anyhoo, happy 12th of July everyone.

    No Surrender:D

  125. Drsteinberg says:

    Civilisation just packed up and fucked off to another planet. I despair. I really fucking despair for the future if that’s what is acceptable in this day and age. Have these fuckers not learnt anything over the years. And to include kids. Jeez

  126. Kensei says:

    2007? Pretty sure this program has been going on forever. There was a complaint in 2013 that it breached impartiality guidelines, but it was not upheld:

    I invite the reader to consider if this response would have been repeated for any other march elsewhere in the UK.

    Oh and plenty of Famine Song fun I’m years previous, there was a period the band’s enjoyed playing it outside one of the Catholic Churches in Belfast City Centre.

    Hell, I don’t even mind that much. It’s the rate money going to having to clean up the three storey tired filled bonfire mess that gets me. Someone said this time of the year is like the Purge, where people can just ignore the law for a set period. Nailed it.

  127. colin alexander says:

    Northern Ireland and Scotland voted Remain in the EU referendum.

    There is a lot of concern about the effects of Brexit on the now open border between the North and South of Ireland.

    Nobody wants a return to customs checkpoints and many fear even worse: the return of military checkpoints.

  128. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 12 July, 2017 at 9:39 pm:

    I knocked of the http before I posted”

    Yes, but that only applies to You Tube, Ronnie. It’s an easy mistake to make when you are in a rush – and you did say you were in a hurry.

    I’ve done the exact same and clicked to submit before realising I’d just done it wrong.

  129. crazycat says:

    I don’t have a television, and am not conversant with all the ways a programme can be accessed.

    This article refers to a programme broadcast on BBC1 Northern Ireland.

    Was it also available on other channels or did people who wanted to watch have to do so on BBC1 NI? The iPlayer programme seems to just be “highlights” (perhaps better described as lowlights), not the full thing.

    I do understand that there will be parts of Scotland that can pick up BBC1 NI; my car radio sometimes spontaneously blares out BBC Radio Ulster.

  130. Capella says:

    @ ronnie anderson – it doesn’t matter if you knock off the http // because we can just copy the url and paste it into a browser window. The browser will add the http bit.

  131. heedtracker says:

    Other news? Beeb gimps must be struggle with Teresa now.

    No Surrender:D

  132. heedtracker says:

    Guy Verhofstadt Facebook.
    3 hrs ·
    Brexit offers the possibility to make the EU more democratic with transnational lists. I also believe that northern-Irish citizens with an Irish passport should be allowed to vote in European elections.

    No Surrender:D

  133. Thepnr says:


    Good sleuthing. Well how gobsmacked I am, your own link gave the answer to at least how long “The Twelfth” has been running on the BBC in Northern Ireland. Below a direct quote from the BBC in response to the complaint.

    “The Twelfth has been a feature of BBC Northern Ireland’s broadcast calendar for 50 years.”

    Betcha not many in the rest of the UK including Scotland knew that until this year. Live and learn.

  134. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lochside says: 12 July, 2017 at 10:43 pm:

    ” … ( ‘partition’ was illegal and based on religious settlement, not historical or geographical requirements;fake history( hundreds of thousands of Presbyterian Ulster Scots got out in the 17th and 18th century due to Anglo ascendancy and headed to the US, where they fought en masse for the Independence of the USA against their ‘beloved ”Crown’.”

    Great comment Lochside – What is not generally known, (on both sides of the pond), is that the USA term, “Hillbillies”, actually refers to those Scottish/Irish followers of King Billy from Northern Ireland and guess what?

    The term was originally meant as a denigration of the Scottish Irish mostly of former Scottish Highlander descent.

    The USA country & Western music owes much to the old Scottish & Irish folk music and some of the older stuff is almost direct copies of traditional Scottish & Irish folk music. As, of course does Traditional Jazz and the Blues as in the Scottish Laments.

  135. Smallaxe says:

    North chiel says:
    12 July, 2017 at 11:17 pm
    Ref ” small axe”

    Exactly what I was thinking, my Friend.

    Peace Always

  136. Moonlight says:

    @Robert Peffers 1030pm

    I had indeed read and understood your previous disertation on the Barnett formula.
    I did not use that wording to Duguid, bearing in mind what I had learned.
    I sought to prod another useless Tory placeman, to suggest that he represented the Scottish electorate. I was not surprised to be ignored by him and less surprised that he was not prepared to question the party line as dictated from afar.
    After all, he will be fully occupied ensuring that the fishers have exclusive rights out to the 200 mile limit and that the farmers continue to receive the equivalent of the EU cash on which they rely. Or maybe not.

  137. Smallaxe says:

    Thepnr says:
    12 July, 2017 at 11:18 pm

    “Scotland In Union have not gone away”

    I’m well aware of that my Friend, the letter that I posted is genuine and sent to one of my throwaway e-mail addresses.

    Peace Always

  138. Petra says:

    @ Lochside at 10:23pm ……. Great post overall Lochside and yes let’s get right behind Ponsonby. BBC and EU Courts too. They should also be reported to the United Nations.

    I was also sorry to hear about Prof Robertson earlier. Ostracised and made ill due to standing up against the stinking, corrupt BBC who did their utmost to ruin his career; lose him his job. His site ‘Talking up Scotland’ is now one of the best online. Well worth a daily visit.

    We know so little about some of the people who have been at the forefront of this battle, for example I just found out recently that John Swinney’s wife suffers from MS. He has to prepare all meals before he leaves for work and see to their 10 year old son. He does all of the shopping and I’m sure much more besides. You’d never know it. No whining, shouting or nasty looking face on him unlike folks such as Davidson and Dugdale. He always has a smile on his face and comes across as being so patient, decent and kind. A real gentleman and statesmanlike. I just hope that we get our Independence soon to give some of the people mentioned (and others) a well deserved break.


    @ Smallaxe at ….. “Civil Service Hub …. 2900 jobs.”

    I don’t know if I’m becoming paranoid or what? Westminster setting up a hub providing 2900 jobs? Something doesn’t ring true. Stinks in fact. I wonder what they’re up to now?

  139. yesindyref2 says:

    For anyone interested in how the Barnett Formula works, and its origins, here’s a paper, 1.5 Origins is on page 8, where England and Wales were 80%, Scotland 11% and NI 9% back in 1888, negotations were yearly until 1978, but what is not given is the state of play in 1978 (NI 1979, Wales 1980). This is where the extra spend per capita in both Scotland and NI originated perhaps, back in 1888. But also by “formula bypass” after 1978.

    Now it’s adjusted (the block grant) on a comparability basis (100% if something is 100% devolved) times the per capita, based on spending in England mainly, but also England and Wales where parts of the budget are not devolved to Wales but are to Scotland. If the formula is applied strictly, then in time the spend per capita will converge. This is actually the “Barnett consequentials” – every UK budget, or between budget spending announcement.

    The comparability factors are on page 6, but this is for 2015, it will need to be changed for the Scotland Act 2016.

  140. Legerwood says:

    Robert Peffer @ 10.53 pm

    As you say 50 or so of Queen Anne’s nearest relatives were Catholics but while Queen Anne may have been the last monarch of the direct Stuart line George of Hanover, who succeeded her was a Stuart on his mother’s side.

    George was a great grandson of James VI and I.

    George’s mother, Sophia, was the granddaughter of James VI and I and was heiress presumptive to Queen Anne but pre-deceased her by a few months. Hence Sophia’s son succeeded Queen Anne. Thus the Stuart connection however indirect was maintained something historians like to gloss over.

    It also means that every monarch from James VI and I to the present day has been a descendant of Mary, Queen of Scots.

  141. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh, as for “Needs based” in Barnett, there is some based on population, and this is discussed from page 9. It looks as though a full needs based formula could work in Scotland’s favour, due to a geographical extra cost in providing services. And also cut the crap about the extra spending per head Scotland gets – it would be clearly needs based, even for the anti-mob to be able to understand with the few marbles they have.

    Also on page 10 is the “Barnett Squeeze”, talking about the populations – and figures not updated often.

  142. crazycat says:

    @ Legerwood

    It’s also frequently forgotten/ignored that William of Orange was James VII and II’s nephew as well as his son-in-law, being the son of James’s sister Mary Stuart.

  143. Ken500 says:

    These hoodlums have been getting away with it for far to long for Unionist votes at Westminster. It is a scandal breaking UK/International Law and getting away with it. Costing £Billions and £Billions of UK taxpayers money and ruining their own economy.

    Lloyd George. A Liberal, illegally Partitoned Ireland. The Balfour Agreement etc. Against the majority wishes and the public interest. The Irish wanted Home Rule/Independence. Such was their treatment by the British State. An obvious disgrace. Ruining the world economy. The Unionists parties are despicable people ruining the world economy. Killing and maiming millions of vulnerable people. They do not care who they bring to despair.

    Now Brexit. The Tories are going to ruin the world economy. Wasting £Billions and £Billions for Unionist votes at Westminster entertaining criminal thugs. The Banks are financing this scandal with public money. £Trns in debt. They fund the Tory Party.

    Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion. The UK in £Trns of debt. Westminster Unionists
    sanction it. They are just beyond belief.

    The situation in NI is an International disgrace. Wasting &Billions of taxpayers money. The Tories are crooks, liars and charlatans. Put to line their own pockets with £Billions of public money ruining the world economy.

    The only way for Scotland is Indepedence in the EU. Hopefully coming soon. To get rid of the parasites at Westminster.

  144. yesindyref2 says:

    Some more points, Barnett is not statutoty, it’s calculated by the Treasury, there are dispute procedures which the SG is invoking, there are these formula bypasses, and Wales has for instance a floor of 115% comparability factor because spending was dropping too much on services, all of which seems to me, to make legal action problematical and long – at least involving a whole range of expert witnesses for both sides with different sets of figures and estimates – amounting at times to guesses, for for instance populations.

    A messy business.

  145. Valerie says:

    @Colin Alexander + all the others using that name

    You are an arsehole, and that’s why folk respond in kind.

    Leave you alone to write your endless shite, on every single topic that’s posted? Who put you in charge?

    Then we have the endless whining when folk pull you up.

    Who are you to question why the topic is posted, or the concern about the OO? You are the only one posting as an apologist for the OO, so perhaps you are just a yoon supporting their activity, or your lodge has assigned you to this forum.

    Either way, folk on this forum have the right to decide if they want to respond to your shit, not you.

  146. Robert Peffers says:

    @Moonlight says: 13 July, 2017 at 12:02 am:

    “I had indeed read and understood your previous disertation on the Barnett formula.
    I did not use that wording to Duguid, bearing in mind what I had learned.”

    The truth is, Moonlight, I was really aiming my comment at Duguid, and the many other, actual members of government who really have never understood the whole Barnett Formula thing.

    Believe my I have, in the past, (acting innocently as if I had no idea), ask some very high ranking government ministers, who really should know better, to explain the Barnett Formula to this totally ignorant of the matter numptie, (Me), and then listened, with a straight face, to the biggest load of waffle you ever heard.

    I have honestly been surprised at the depth of ignorance most of these people, who are actually voting upon matters that involve United Kingdom funding, actually exhibit.

    How the hell can they justify voting upon fairly simple things they fail to understand? Then I remember the terms, “Lobby Fodder”, and, “Low Flying Jimmies”.

    These are the ones we see on Parliament TV from Westminster when the chamber is almost empty during the actual debates and then the Davison Bell sounds and they seem to arrear from nowhere, troop through the Division Lobby, (as instructed by the Party Whips), to vote:-

    How can they know which way the debate went when they have not even been at the debate?

  147. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I owe Lochside and some other Wingers an apology.

    I didn’t really buy-into the whole ‘Ulsterisation’ scenario. especially regarding ‘Colonel’ Ruth Davidson. I honestly thought she was just a victim of bad advice and hubris.

    Now? After seeing this BBC NI stuff? And hearing CallK’s PR exercise for OO this morning?



    I really didn’t believe they would stoop so low.

    More fool me.


    On a more positive note – this nonsense should persuade many switherers: Scottish independence must be worthwhile if it does nothing else but distance us from this putrid behaviour once and for all. A SG debate on sectarian marches might help clarify positions on all sides.

  148. Petra says:

    @ North Chiel at 11:17pm. ‘New Edinburgh hub.’

    Spot on North Chiel.

    The Supreme Court sitting in Scotland recently for the first time since it was established, more and more staff flooding into the Scottish Office, 6 out of the 8 top cops in Scotland from south of the border, Theresa May setting up a ‘Scottish Commitee’ last year that we never hear about (what are they doing?), armed Police covering the Faslane area, moves to replace the regular staff at Faslane with individuals from private companies (more of course) and now this. Looks as though they’re following through with their wee plans for Scotland.

    I wonder what wee Willie Rennie has to say about this? Strange how he’s never there when we need him, LOL. Too busy giving Nicola her orders in relation to what to say to Barnier on Thursday?

  149. yesindyref2 says:

    One last – in a nutshell it appears Barnett is merely a mechanism for adjusting the block grant from year to year, it is NOT a formula that decides in itself, the relative spending for the devolved countries, or the per capita total spend either. That’s historical, going way back.

  150. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh dear, they’re not going to like this.

    Scotland’s unemployment rate now 3.8%, down 0.7%. The UK down to 4.5%.

    I guess that means the rUK has more benefit scroungers than us Nats have. A wee posting on the Express and even the Scotsman might be in order …

  151. Petra says:

    I see that someone has mentioned that the ‘Twelth’ has been covered by the BBC for 50 years now. If so is this the first time that it’s been broadcast worldwide?

  152. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 13 July, 2017 at 12:31 am:

    ” … (what are they doing?), armed Police covering the Faslane area, moves to replace the regular staff at Faslane with individuals from private companies (more of course) and now this. Looks as though they’re following through with their wee plans for Scotland.”

    Did you forget the reduction of the Scottish Regiments, the closures of former RAF and RN bases and replacing them with army battalions?

    They have been removing the defenders against foreign attackers for many years from Scotland and replacing them with the army so as to be able to put troops upon Scottish Streets after removing the more Scottish manned battalions of the army and bringing in more United Kingdom manned troops from places like Aldershots.

    We now have no naval patrols and no long range air surveillance to deter foreign attacks but a greater capability to have the tanks on the streets of Scotland in an instant.

    This from a news item in 2011:-

  153. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Okay, as mentioned earlier, here’s the fundraiser for the new BBC monitoring project:

  154. Smallaxe says:

    Petra says:
    13 July, 2017 at 12:05 am
    @ Lochside at 10:23pm ……. “Great post overall Lochside and yes let’s get right behind Ponsonby. BBC and EU Courts too. They should also be reported to the United Nations.”

    For anyone interested, here is the fundraiser.

    Thanks’ Petra,
    Peace Always

  155. Smallaxe says:

    Ian, SNAP!

    Peace Always Brother

  156. yesindyref2 says:

    Basically speaking, tanks are going to Salisbury or Catterick, and the whole British Army is getting mauled to bits. Even the definition of “tank” is changing, not neccessarily for the better.

  157. Thepnr says:

    Just backed GA Ponsonby in his fight with the BBC. Anything that will bring down their conceit and arrogant right in you face propaganda will do for me.

    Go Mr Ponsonby take them on and defeat them.

  158. Petra says:

    @ Robert at 12:54am ….. Thanks for the reminders Robert. I also know two young men, boys really, who have been based at Faslane previously. It would seem that a pattern emerges as the Scots are being sent south or abroad those from the south are being stationed here. Westminster has also just struck up a deal wth Norway and the US in relation to Lossiemouth.


    @ Ian and Smallaxe thanks for the link. Too late to do anything now but will donate in the morning. Let’s ensure that this link is posted on a regular basis. No point on moaning about the BBC when we could be supporting someone who’s working his butt off trying to do something about it.

    Peace to you (all on here) too Smallaxe X

  159. North chiel says:

    Yes “Petra@ 1231″ Willie Rennie& his cohort Carmichael, have indeed brass necks asking
    our FM do do anything whatsoever on behalf of the Britnat Liberal party. Our FM will be in Brussels to represent our democratically elected Holyrood government and to advocate the position in relation to MY country’s ( Scotland) democratic wish to remain in the EU. Incidentally, if Carmichael or Rennie do want to advance the cause of remaining in the Single market/ customs union then my advice to them would be to insist upon their Unionist friends in the Britnat Labour Party and Britnat former friends within the Westminster Tory Junta to see to it that our ELECTED First Minister
    of Scotland is SEATED at these Brexit negotiations ( as a right in my opinion as Leader of the only other country as signatory to the 2- Kingdom ” precious precious union”).Thereafter, they might politely & respectively ask our FM to ” note their views” during her discussions.
    And ” brass necks” must be the understatement of the decade within the context of Rennie& Carmichael!

  160. David says:

    I go to church and i could not imagine any of my congregation taking part in this type of nonsense, its against the whole meaning of being a christian, ofc most of the people who do take part probably never step foot in a church from one week to the next, lets face it, if you have any real christian values you would keep well clear of these hatefests
    If i was in charge of the councils not one of these organisations would get a licence to march on our streets, and i would not care which side of the religious divide you represent, it really is time to stop this affront to the real christians in our society

  161. Petra says:

    Oops meant to say that we can see what they’re up to Robert. Wee (or big) ding-dongs between half decent Scots seeking Independence and right wing neo-Nazi types / the Orange Order would give them the ‘excuse’ to put troops on our streets backed up with the MSM blaming the SNP …. Baad. We know that they’ll stop at nothing to hang onto Scotland as they’ve got far too much to lose: In the main the base at Faslane.

  162. Petra says:

    @ North chiel at 1:37am ….. “Brass necks.”

    It just beggars belief don’t you think that they’ve got the audacity to ask her to do anything for them at all? They should have been demanding, as you say, a place for Scots at the negotiating table if for no other reason to monitor what Westminster was getting up to. But NO. This is the party that’s been shouting their mouths off demanding a rerun of the EU Ref because they know that Brexit is going to be catastrophic but don’t want to give the Scots the chance to bail out. Additionally why would Nicola do anything to scupper our chances of getting our Independence? She’s being playing a mean game so far. We need a hard Brexit to get out of this. They voted for Brexit so can get on with it.

  163. William Wallace says:

    Eh feel seek tae the pit o meh stomach. The “KAT” on ane o the fires summed it ah up tbh.

    Best thing abody can dae is wash their hands o the whale lot o it.

    They might be a few hundred miles in front o ISIS but, they are a few hundred more behind the rest o us.

  164. William Wallace says:

    Eh meant to say years no miles 🙂 God knows whaur that came fae.

  165. I’m busy with visitors, but if David Torrance ever uses the term ‘ulsterisation’ again.
    Later, guys.

  166. North chiel says:

    Yes ” Petra@ 0204″ , the party of ” home rule” for Scotland since Gladstone.
    ” Scottish Liberal party” indeed. HQ London England . ” Real leader ” Lord Menzies Campbell Q.C.( Scottish tea boys Rennie & Carmichael)

  167. Andy Anderson says:

    I grew up in a part of Scotland that did not have these marches of hate. I was about 22 years old when I did witness one in Dunfermline, Fife. I did not think it was funny then nor do I now. Edjitts.

  168. Ghillie says:

    Smallaxe @ 10.42 pm

    Sounds like ‘Scotland in union’ wishes they had a Phantom Power Films !!

    Interesting they had to warn their supporters to watch their language and behaviour ! Speaks volumes.

    Have a lovely day Smallaxe, peace and love to you and yours =)

  169. JLT says:

    Seriously, since the GE, I’ve mostly kept quiet on here and on Facebook, and just watched on (in a very bemused fashion) at what is going on in this wonderful United Kingdom of ours.

    To be honest …it’s literally jaw-dropping.

    I have never seen government such as this, where selfishness and out-right blatant lie-telling dominates the agenda (or several agendas if we’re honest). From Grenfell, to the DUP, to Brexit, to Theresa, to Trump trade deals, to arms deal to Arabia, to threatening the Spanish King over Gibraltar, to Orange marches, to Ruth being made an honorary colonel of a kidd-on army and then have her posting up her fantasies (Gillian Anderson) on social media …it is just unbelievable. Seriously …WTF!!!

    The only thing that keeps me from walking away from it all, is the fact that this can’t go on forever. It’s unsustainable in its present form, and a Government can’t be expected to rule for 5 years on such a deluded set of agendas. Something has to give.

    But boy …I hope it comes soon.

  170. Capella says:

    I see Paul Golding, leader of Britain First, is enjoying the “celebrations” in Belfast. Isn’t that the organisation that the killer of British Labour MP, Jo Cox, belonged to?
    Ulsterisation has obviously already arrived in the North of England.

    You would think the Labour Party would be opposed to this.

  171. heedtracker says:

    JLT, fact is, BBC Scotland frauds would be doing us a massive service if they broadcast their very glossy BBC production of hatefest glorification bigotry across the whole of Scotland.

    Bet they wont dare. Hard core right regimes ofcourse always embrace and inflame violence. In 2014 rancid old The Guardian rammed the OO down Scotland’s throat but not this year.

    No Surrender:D

  172. Smallaxe says:


    Thank you, as for SIU I think we’ve had a good look at some of their supporters atl on this thread. Links coming shortly!

    Peace and Love to you and yours Ghillie and to all Wingers, let’s try and ignore the usual suspects today folks and “get on with the day job” 🙂

    Peace Always

  173. galamcennalath says:

    Lies, propaganda, and the potential for it all to go wrong.

    We’ve all seen quotes etc regarding the Nazi attitude to lying as a propaganda technique. Basically saying if you do it often enough everyone will start to believe it.

    Of course the Nazi’s didn’t have the internet to consider with 1000s people of people calling them out as lying barstards!

    In the Nazi worldview it wasn’t just themselves who lied, they accused everyone else of lying too!

    Maybe Goebbels wasn’t wrong when he said …. ” The English follow the principle that when one lies, it should be a big lie, and one should stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous. “ … possible he had a premonition about future Brexiteers.

  174. JLT says:

    Hi Heedtracker.

    Yep! I had heard rumours of the Orange ‘festivities’ were possibly going to be aired on TV, so it was no surprise when the Rev posted this up yesterday. The deal that Theresa struck up with the DUP and then having this nonsense aired as ‘culture’ shows us all what the mental state of the nation really is – British jingoism mixed with the cheering of a ‘religious’ culture that should have been buried a long, long time ago.

    But for Westminster, they may have let another genie out of the bottle that can’t be re-captured so easily. The longer they hold up the extreme version of Protestantism, the more they will find the unsavoury characters and elements creeping more and more into the fore. Theresa, like Blair, could find her legacy and character seriously tarnished in the history books that have still to be written.

    But as said – this is unsustainable. A dodgy, belligerent, selfish, right-wing government mixing itself with extreme Protestantism and set on a course of thumbing its nose at its nearest and most valuable trade partners while at the same time, seeking to whore itself out for any old profit around the world …must surely have repercussions somewhere down the line, and probably in so many ways in which it can go all so wrong. I suspect that even those Scots who like the British State may becoming slowly discomforted at what they are not only seeing, but also living under.

    We quietly sit …watch …and wait.

  175. Lenny Hartley says:

    More Orange stuff in the news, this time Chocolate Orange ! Brexit falling apart like one

  176. Smallaxe says:


    Brian Feeney: Orange Order can no longer claim ownership of the North;

    Royal Navy’s new £8billion warships will be built with 65% foreign steel in fresh betrayal of UK workers;

    Food prices set to soar as hard Brexit approaches;

    Peace Always

  177. Brian Powell says:


    So they sack the Income Tax staff, who we do need, and embed UK Government staff for further colonisation.

  178. Smallaxe says:


    UK profiting from Yemeni civilians suffering: HRW;

    George Monbiot pulls apart the entire Tory culture that ‘led to the Grenfell Fire’ [VIDEO];

    Here’s Why We’re Probably Going To Have To Leave Euratom, Whether MPs Want To Or Not;

    Peace Always

  179. Smallaxe says:


    DUP and Orange Order leaders silent as PSNI probe hate crimes at ‘bigot bonfires’;

    U.K. Pay Falls Despite Lowest Unemployment Since 1975;

    Emails reveal DUP sought to delay release of Brexit expenses;

    Peace Always

  180. Smallaxe says:


    UK to buy $1B worth of US-made Joint Light Tactical Vehicles;

    EU says Brexit talks could fail after Johnson’s ‘go whistle’ remarks;

    State of play of Article 50 negotiations with the United Kingdom;

    Peace Always

  181. Smallaxe says:


    Unemployment at record low;

    Tory-DUP alliance has written the SNP’s election leaflets for them;(WARNING: Offensive Faces)

    The impact of multi-level policymaking on the UK energy system;

    Peace Always

  182. Smallaxe says:


    GA PONSONBY FUNDER!! Please Post This Frequently Wingers!

    The 2017 Manchester Arena Bombing – A Wolf in Wolf’s Clothing;

    That’s all for now, Folks, have a Thuper Thursday. 🙂

    Peace Always

  183. Dr Jim says:

    It doesn’t matter who we are or what we say as long as we don’t enforce the view that to NOT be the same as ONE means another is less
    To believe a thing might be relevant to ONE shouldn’t give the right to enforce that belief on another, that should be a crime on humanity and a backward step towards the mistakes of the past, slavery, wars and such over who decides who are the superior beings

    When the boxer wins a fight it doesn’t make him the better man it just makes him the better or stronger boxer at that moment in time

    These OO types believe they have a right to mark, celebrate, commemorate, call it what you will the killing of other people as a signal of their superiority and use religion to back up their claims
    I’m not a religious person because of people who believe in exactly that, and to me the OO are no different to ISIS or Boko Haram or any other cult who twists and perverts an ideology to make it fit another purpose then scream at the world that somehow God gave them the right of dominion

    I’m not aware of any genuine religious teaching that preaches attacking another just because…
    There is no self defence here either, this like all terrorism is just plain and simple might is right and we in Scotland should know all about that as it’s used politically on a daily basis against us by our home grown political bullies the Unionists who clad themselves in the same clothes, albeit softer raiment these days but the end desired result is the same the imposition of power for powers sake

    As far as I’m aware the God in who’s name they claim to behave like this preached the exact opposite (loving thy neighbour as thyself must have been missed by these folk) or even just a wee bit of respect wouldn’t go amiss or is that even too much to ask

  184. Smallaxe says:

    Brian Powell says:
    13 July, 2017 at 9:05 am

    “So they sack the Income Tax staff, who we do need, and embed UK Government staff for further colonisation.”

    “Wrong and Unable” Brian, that’s what Treeza said, wasn’t it?

    Peace Always my Friend

  185. Anon says:

    Well well well…

    Owen Smith MP attended the parade.

    Bragging about it on twitter.

  186. Breeks says:

    You can’t say we’ve not been warned.

    I’ve been banging on about the media since way back on Newsnet, and I got the same pelters back then for criticising the SNP’s attitude towards the media as I get now for trying to promote the importance we ought to be putting on sovereignty. Plus ça change.

    G A Ponsonby and Prof John Robertson deserve medals and considerably more backing than they are getting, because they are way ahead of the game in understanding what we are dealing with. I would have hoped to see them formally appointed to some task force to examine ways to confound the propaganda and find some way to get Scotland Broadcasting. We all know they are right. Give them power and station!! Help them!

    It is excellent news that Michel Barnier is going to meet with Nicola Sturgeon, and I would dearly like to think that Nicola will raise the issue of broadcasting and at least sound out whether there is any opportunity for Barnier to introduce some dynamic into his Brexit negotiations which can be instrumental in securing some access to free broadcasting in Scotland before ScotRef. I hope Nicola impresses upon Barnier that Scotland is being deluged with the same propaganda which gave momentum to Brexit in the first place; the BBC’s resentment of all things European. Scotland might yet succumb to the gravitational pull of the Brexit black hole.

    If Barnier is persuaded Scotland needs help, and he has the means and opportunity to help, then there is a chance he might, even if its unofficial and not made public. But imagine 4 or 5 months before ScotRef, a new FREE Scottish news and current affairs service took to the air in Scotland. Even a temporary service, specific to Brexit deal and ScotRef referendum. If Nicola is absolutely resolute in Scotland, and Barnier is absolutely resolute from Europe, then May might be forced into some measure of devolved broadcasting.

    I do appreciate there might only be a small chance of that happening, but unless Scotland is adamant, uncompromising, and agitated about the propaganda fest we have to live with, then Barnier’s hands will be tied, and there will be nothing he can do. We don’t have to just ask, we need to implore Barnier for help.

    Does anybody know when Barnier intends to hold this meeting? Is there time to coordinate the open letter to Barnier and get it signed by popular petition in time for their meeting?

    It goes without saying, as far as I’m concerned it’s all the same thing. All routes lead to the issue of sovereignty. If we are a sovereign people, then nobody can stop us if we start to broadcast media ourselves.

  187. Smallaxe says:

    Breeks; See here, it’s already happened!

    Peace Always

  188. Legerwood says:

    crazycat says:
    13 July, 2017 at 12:21 am
    @ Legerwood

    It’s also frequently forgotten/ignored that William of Orange was James VII and II’s nephew as well as his son-in-law, being the son of James’s sister Mary Stuart.””

    I know. It was a fairly convoluted relationship between William and Mary. Interesting to note in passing that the Stuart women in the 17thC seemed to remain Protestant while the men drifted back to the Catholic Church.

  189. Street Andrew says:

    LOL would sum it up nicely.

    If it was funny.

  190. heedtracker says:

    We quietly sit …watch …and wait.

    We’re not quiet my friend, very far from it.

    There’s the universe of OO UKOK Britishness we get blasted at us by BBC gimps and then there’s the real world of Scotland.

    All of which makes it endlessly funny shouting Happy 12th of July, NO Surrender, at Britnats here at my place of business for example.

    “Looks of embarrassment” don’t come close and shouting it in your broadest Scots, makes all the funnier.

    There really is two Scotland’s, tory beeb gimpland, farting out sneaky creepy SNP bad Pravadesque attack propaganda, from their giant Clyde glass box of grot , with the OO nutters, or our Scotland.

    Which do you choose:D

  191. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 13 July, 2017 at 1:47 am:

    ” … We know that they’ll stop at nothing to hang onto Scotland as they’ve got far too much to lose: In the main the base at Faslane.”

    It is very hard indeed to track down the incidents where troops have not only been ordered onto Scottish streets, including tanks and weapons much bigger than side arms.

    I tracked some of the incidents down some years back but on a recent re-search for one particularly bad incident, it was at either Clydebank or Clydeside, that I had previously found I drew a complete blank. They not only re-write our Scottish history but expunge true incidents they decide we had better not know about.

    The incident. if I remembered correctly, was something to do with rent strikes, (mainly by women during wartime when the men were away fighting for the United Kingdom). They, the Government, locked down Scottish troops in their barracks and brought in troops from other UK countries. There were fatalities among the women.

    If I remember, and have an idle time, I may try to unearth the item again.

  192. colin alexander says:


    No issues with you opining that I post “shite”. That’s a criticism of my comments. That’s fine by me.

    However, I am not an apologist for the OO. I have never been and will never join or support the OO. I was once invited to join the OO: I said “no thanks”.

    I don’t agree with it for the basic principle that I believe it to be discriminatory against Catholics, as they are not allowed to join.

    I think it would be wrong to totally ban them in Scotland. However, those OO band members in Glasgow who played The Beach Boys song: Sloop John B, should be held to account for that. What have the Beach Boys got to do with celebrating the Battle of the Boyne or Protestantism? Nothing.

    I think that any band that does that should be refused permission to march for inciting public disorder.

    The spectators who sang The Famine Song to this tune should have been arrested and prosecuted for a hate crime. Why weren’t they?

    Why aren’t the police putting photos and video out to try to identify the perpetrators of what appears to be a hate crime?

    Also, I don’t try to tell Stu what he can or can’t put on HIS website. I just give my honest opinions on it. He can ignore or respond to any way he wants. I don’t always agree with Stu, but I respect that he speaks his mind on subjects.

  193. There’s not much you really can say about the British state broadcaster airing to the World the wonderful celebration of such proud British Culture.

    Except to say it must make Gordon Brown, Kezia Dugdale and Ruth Davidson’s hearts beat faster with pride at such a display of British culture and values.

    And yet many of those same the unionists attempt to portray the progressive and inclusive civic Nationalism of the SNP as ugly, divisive and insular’.

    They must take a look at themselves in the mirror sometime.

  194. heedtracker says:

    Also, I don’t try to tell Stu what he can or can’t put on HIS website. I just give my honest opinions on it. He can ignore or respond to any way he wants. I don’t always agree with Stu, but I respect that he speaks his mind on subjects.”

    You’d get the respect you want Colin, if you would just be straight with your WoS btl readers.

    You clearly hate the SNP, you’re clearly a unionist, you’re clearly against the coming ref2, you clearly think you can pull this ref2, but only on “sovereignty,” con on people, without saying how you expect any refs ever again, in Scotland, without SNP Scots gov, and so on…

    Just try being honest Colin. Why you feel need for your UKOK subterfuge is very yoon culture:D

  195. Smallaxe says:

    The Missing Link!

    Food prices set to soar as hard Brexit approaches;

    Sorry about that.

    Peace Always

  196. artyhetty says:

    So many great comments to add to this great but depressing article from yesterday.

    On those UKok civil servants jobs they are planting, smack bang middle of Edinburgh, (er, just across from the council buildings where we have a majority of SNP in the council) the UKOK civil service get a brand new office with a 20 year lease! They are ‘relocating’ people from other offices. Not new jobs for people actually living in Scotland. The whole thing stinks and is a very sinister move. Another arm of the UK government imposing themselves onto Scotland, and we have to ask why.

    With brexit and the dreadful DUP sitting in England’s parliament, looks like Scotland is in for more colonisation as has been mentioned. Ah well, they ‘love’ us don’t they.

  197. yesindyref2 says:

    @Smallaxe: “UK to buy $1B worth of US-made Joint Light Tactical Vehicles”

    I think they work out at $350,000 each as they’re being mass produced, rather than $1 million each for something similar if developed and made in the uk. It’s the sign of things to come, and wouldn’t surprise me if the T31 goes the same way, perhaps even the remaining 5 T26, after the initial 3 on the Clyde.

    The UK is brassic.

  198. G.Allen says:

    This article is poisonous, hateful and totally inaccurate. Just don’t watch it, go to mass, worship your Pope or spend some time with your family and a wee cup of tea. The fact you spent so much time moaning shows the only true hatred comes from you.

  199. Fireproofjim says:

    Robert Peffers
    The Glasgow rent strike was in1915 and was carried out mainly by the wives of serving soldiers when landlords increased rents which the wives were unable to pay.
    The leader was the heroic Mary Barbour, who is about to be commemorated by a statue.
    I don’t believe ther were any casualties although threats of eviction were made.

  200. colin alexander says:

    I do not use multiple identities. I am not Rock or anyone else.

    If anyone else suggests the SNP are failing the independence movement and that they should not be confident about an SNP led indyref campaign, then that’s nowt to do with me. Though, I’d agree with their comment.

    SNP support has dropped from 50% to 35% at the GE, even with the EU / Brexit shambles ongoing and the Greens standing aside. The Tory Govt shed seats in England and Wales and yet in Scotland the Tories were able to win more seats with a rise in support proportional to the SNP’s loss in support.

    If some Wingers cannae see a problem there, then I won’t mock youse. It’s sympathy I have. I’m feeling sorry that you won’t see the writing on the wall until it’s too late and the SNP have totally messed up our chances of independence or sovereignty for decades.

    The SNP campaigned to Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster, not for independence. “KEEP”. That means the SNP campaigned FOR the continuation of WM rule over Scotland.

    That’s the people you expect to win you independence????

    In 2016,the SNP told people to vote SNP on constituency and list in every constituency including safe seats, which gave the Unionists more seats. How selfish and amateurishly stupid was that? We could have had more Green pro-indy allies instead of more Unionist MSPs.

    Only thanks to the Greens is there an SNP ( MINORITY) government and an indyref vote passed. That’s how desperate the situation already is.

    The SNP failed to educate voters on STV at the Council elections. In contrast the Unionist coalition were educating on how to best use STV to get Unionists elected as councillors.

    I can only think Kezia has cleared the decks of useless SLab advisers that lost them elections and the SNP has hired them, as the SNP are acting as incompetent and complacent as SLab nowadays.

    If the SNP cannot run their own campaigns well on much practised grounds – election campaigns – how do you expect them to run a fantastic YES campaign?

    “We are still the largest party” was a SLab excuse when shedding support in election after election, it’s now used by the SNP for the same reason. The SNP are now copying SLab by continuing their “jobs for the boys” so it’s the same auld team, same policies, same empty rhetoric and same continually declining support.

    [\_____ There’s a nice wee graph of SNP support 2015 to 2017. That fact speaks for itself.

  201. ROBERT C says:

    How ignorant you English and Scottish are.
    36%??? It 50/50 here now.
    Both sides of the community have their days of parades and the majority of us respect that.
    The attitudes in the comment show why England and Scotland are overrun by Muslims. You are weak and soft. Unionists and Republicans here stand up for our beliefs and culture. You never hear of Muslims bombing or killing people over here although we do that ourselves.
    The problem is that the rest of the UK has lost its identity. If your not happy with the way things are done here that’s fine but don’t come over here because we want nothing to do with you. Actually for the Scottish that want independence if your not happy in the UK the leave go elsewhere and find another country to put up with your whining because you’d are just a drain on society.

  202. Breeks says:

    Smallaxe says:
    13 July, 2017 at 9:43 am
    Breeks; See here, it’s already happened!

    Peace Always…”

    There’s nothing quite like a coordinated campaign…

  203. Robert Peffers says:

    @Brian Powell says: 13 July, 2017 at 9:05 am:

    “So they sack the Income Tax staff, who we do need, and embed UK Government staff for further colonisation.”

    Well they do have good evidence that when they bring in their English workers to an area it affects the voting patterns in the YoonYoonist’s favour. We see this in and around such places in Scotland as Leuchars in North East Fife and around air bases at Lossiemouth and in and around the dockyard in the Dunfermline area.

    In Edinburgh and around Edinburgh we have a change in the army based at Redford, Dreghorn and Kirknewton. There is also some armed forces influence around Stirling. Now we will get an increase in UK Government presence Edinburgh.

    It is a bit like the historic Plantations by the UK in Ireland.

  204. gus1940 says:

    2 interesting items from this morning’s papers:-

    1) In the Hootsmon Tom Peterkin one of their leading colonialist purveyors of propaganda states that (now no laughing at the back) ‘our stout Col. Blimpeuth’s GE triumph has “neutered the Indpendence threat”‘.

    2) A letter writer in The National points out something which is very obvious if one thinks about it namely that our beloved colonialist media when publishing photos of Nicola always show her looking angry or grim while photos of the other 3 wastes of space are invariably depicted as smiling and cheerful.

  205. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander

    That’s the spirit Colin. Feels good to be an honest and open UKOK unionist huh.

    Maybe hard core yoons like you are right, that snap GE really is the end of the SNP, ref2 and Scottish democracy. That certainly is the BBC Scotland led plan.

    It makes sense too Colin, BBC Scotland led English media are going to destroy Scottish democracy, The Vow was historic fraud, Project Fear, run by a big fat lying slob, underpinned by fabulous Labour con artists like Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, was a great triumph of Britishness, tory Britishness and it all has to be exploited. Its how it works in Scotland and it should succeed Colin.

    Or will it:D

    No Surrender!

  206. Fred says:

    The House of Hanover of course continued with Victoria’s daft uncle, she couldn’t inherit Hanover as she was a wummin!

    When George I won the pools by inheriting the British throne he arrived minus his wife who was kept locked up back in Germany. George had her fancy-man done in (or did the dirty deed himself?) & buried under the floor in the palace. The skeleton was dug up years later. This was just the first of many skeletons to rattle the Guelph dynasty. Lovely family.

  207. gus1940 says:


    Does anybody agree with me that the hurried erection of the Statue of Donald Dewar the alleged Father of The Devolved Parliament was at best premature and probably undeserved?

  208. Valerie says:


    Yes, I would quite like to see the Dewar statue removed, and I think plenty would agree.

    Years ago, I thought Dewar was an honest broker, but I’ve since discovered a lot of crap went on behind the scenes, in trade offs with WM.

  209. Fred says:

    Yes indeed Gus, A couple of weeks ago it sported the duke of Wellington’s traffic cone!

  210. Dan Huil says:

    Still paying the bbc tax? More fool you.

  211. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fireproofjim says: 13 July, 2017 at 10:22 am:

    “The Glasgow rent strike was in1915 and was carried out mainly by the wives of serving soldiers when landlords increased rents which the wives were unable to pay.”

    No, Fireproofjim, This was an earlier incident, (I’m almost sure), in Clydebank), in the 1800s.

    ” … The leader was the heroic Mary Barbour, who is about to be commemorated by a statue.”

    Aye! And something that is long overdue, but that whole incident is known about. The one I’m trying to find was hushed up at the time and very, very hard to find now.

    The article I found, while looking for something else, had just local newspaper articles not only quoted but had readable photos of the newspaper articles included.

    The incident was apparently prevented from being published nationally by Westminster. (as was the WWII Bombing of Clydebank, at the time during WWII).

    The death, injury and destruction of property during the Clydebank Blitz was officially played down during WWII by the Westminster Government while the London Blitz was given priority although, on a percentage basis, Clydebank was much harder hit.

  212. colin alexander says:


    “No Surrender” was yesterdays’ topic.

    Unionist? I was severely pissed off at: “Keep Scotland Strong at Westminster”. Who’s the Unionists? The SNP said that, no me.

    I’m no the pro WM dominance / Holyrood subservient campaigner. That’s the SNP. I have consistently opposed that.

    Explain to me then my dear fellow commentator, if the SNP are all out for indy why is Nicola Sturgeon trying to save the UK Govt’s bacon with moderating Brexit Why does she want to help negotiate Brexit?

    I thought we are leaving the UK? According to Wingers anyway.

    If she wants to argue Scotland is best out of the UK’s Brexit mess by going indy, why is she trying to prevent Brexit being a total UK balls up?

    I’ll tell you why, cos Scotland is going to be staying in the Union, if it’s left up to the SNP. Scotland is going to be part of Brexit UK so NS is trying to sweeten the deal for Scotland within the UK.

    Cos the SNP are subservient devolutionists, not independists. They don’t campaign for independence, but for an indyref that they know does not achieve independence for Scotland.

    So they can con mugs like me into voting them into Holyrood and WM with the the false carrot of independence dangled under our noses.

    Then say: oh but indy -it has to be by referendum, cos the SNP say it. Then, oh dear, we lost the indyref campaign. We’ll need to forget indy for another few years, then hold another losing indyref campaign after another few years.

    Easy money for Joan McAlpine, Bill Kidd and the others making a lucrative living from giving false hopes for Scotland’s electorate.

    Sitting on their jacksies tapping away at a keyboard for a few mins each week or pressing a wee button on a desk a few months a year and giving orders to get their staff to do all the fobbing off of constituents.

  213. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander says:
    13 July, 2017 at 11:17 am

    So what’s your plan Colin, other than smear the SNP?

    There’s like a gazillion paid tory hacks, in every newsroom across teamGB, paid to do it Colin, yet here you are doing it too.

    You keep saying you want a sovereignty for Scotland referendum 1, but how are planning to hold this one then?

  214. Robert Kerr says:

    @Robert Peffers. 09.47

    The rent strikes in Tiree caused the Royal Navy to send two ships, HMS Ajax and HMS Assistance.
    Ref the Napier Commission of 1883.
    ” On 31st July 1886, a detachment of fifty police escorted by five times that number of marines was landed on the island from the vessels Ajax and Assistance.”
    The HMS Ajax of that time was an Ironclad battleship.

    Intimidation and show of force. It’s the Imperial Way.

  215. Robbo says:


    Gaunae stop using that NS shite at end of your posts bud! That’s an OO and unionist tag and really annoying to my faith

  216. K1 says:

    Anent the ‘planting’ of thousands of civil servants in Edinburgh, joining the dots isn’t really hard with this one, considering that a Welsh Tory MP made these comments regarding a visit to Edinburgh in March of this year, I’m sure some wingers will recall….after all his comments did make the ‘papers’:

    ‘Writing in his North Wales Weekly News column, Mr Bebb said: “My brief visit to Edinburgh left me somewhat despondent because I felt the same way as I do when I leave Dublin.

    “For me Dublin is somewhere which is recognisable but very different. That is fine in the context of the capital of an independent country but it should be a warning when visiting a city which is a crucial part of the UK.

    “The sense of nationhood in Edinburgh is palpable. For a long time it has been satisfied within the UK. Even in 2014 a majority saw themselves as British and Scottish.

    “Is that changing though? My gut feeling is yes and that should be a cause for regret to all of us.”

    It’s pretty clear they’re ‘attempting’ to ‘remedy’ this ‘problem’.

    (Oh and the headline on this telegraph article is of course at odds wi the body of the text, he did not ‘get slapped down’ by May, for saying this, she merely ‘maybotted’ in response to his comments)

  217. Robert Peffers says:

    @gus1940 says: 13 July, 2017 at 10:53 am:

    “Does anybody agree with me that the hurried erection of the Statue of Donald Dewar the alleged Father of The Devolved Parliament was at best premature and probably undeserved?”


    On all counts.

  218. colin alexander says:


    The SNP have a basic conflict of interest: keeping devolution power vs indy. Priority is given to subservient devolution.

    (How am I smearing the SNP? What have I said that’s untrue? Negative, critical, but not untrue.)

    A vote for the SNP should be a vote for independence. Simple as that. WM election manifesto: If the SNP win a majority of WM seats, a declaration of independence will follow.

    The Scottish election manifesto should say: Following Scot Govt elections SNP MSPs will hold a debate and vote on declaring UDI, if passed by a majority of MSPs – if there is a SNP Scottish Govt, they will declare democratically UDI.

  219. heedtracker says:

    Robbo says:
    13 July, 2017 at 11:29 am

    Gaunae stop using that NS shite at end of your posts bud! That’s an OO and unionist tag and really annoying to my faith

    Its a good display of how a couple of words are just a joke to some Scots and very big deal to others.

    I have no faith, what ever that means, ofcourse. All religion is all kinds of nonsense. Keep it out of politics, just like every other EU country does, mostly. Can’t think of anywhere else plagued by this sectarian nonsense.

  220. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander says:
    13 July, 2017 at 11:37 am

    Hopeless deflection Colin. We’ve seen it all before. All yoons like you want is Holyrood shutdown, Scots like to get back in our little Britain holes and shut the fcuk up.

    Or, You keep saying you want a sovereignty for Scotland referendum 1, but how are planning to hold this one then?

    Youre so full shit Colin. But again, why bother considering its everywhere now, your level of UKOK creep out?

  221. Ken500 says:

    Boris Johnston the criminal is a descendant of George 1? Or some defunct monarchy. Believes he has the right to rule in an elected democracy. Delusions of grandeur totally come into it. It doesn’t matter how many people come to despair, so the unionists politicians can illegally can line their and their cronies pockets with £Billions of public money. Including the corrupt bankers who fund the Unionist parties. People in Scotland are paying for this debuncle being deprived of personal and public money. £20Billion+ the cost of the Union which would be better invested in Scotland. Not sent south to line the pockets of the Westminster criminals.

    Illegal wars, financial fraud and tax evasion costing Scotland £Billions which could be better spent. Instead being spent on Hickley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. A total waste of £Billions Added to the £Billions already wasted. £Trns in debt. Westminster unionists destroying the world economy.

    Brexit another disgrace. They haven’t a clue. The £Billions being wasted to destroy the world economy. The Westminster unionists are the world laughing stock. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so tragic. The useless articles who join the unionist parties, especially in Scotland. Where people take the biggest hit of these useless political parties. They believe they can get away with it. There is nothing people in Scotland can do about it.

    Thank goodness for the SNP (Gov) standing up for Scotland. Independence in the EU is coming soon. For a better, fairer, more equal happy, prosperous Scotland. A just cause.

    The Orange Lodge no hopers. Getting away with totally criminal activities supported by Westminster crooks. A Law unto themselves. Disgusting flaunting of the Law.

  222. Dr Jim says:

    Interesting to note that all the Unionist party and its supporters vehemently opposed Scotlands FM being allowed anywhere near their UK negotiations over Brexit or having any say in anything except moaning about her doing her “Day job”
    but when it turns out our FM is going to have some discussions with the powers that be in these matters all the Unionist party people want to tell her what she’s to say on their behalf

    One minute it’s all shut up shut up you don’t speak for us and go away Sturgeon, next minute it’s all what about us, you need to speak for us but don’t dare mention Independence because WE the LOSING party don’t want that

    I certainly hope our FM didn’t listen to a word any of them whined and got on with what she wanted to discuss
    If the Unionists want something discussed they might have thought to moan at their own choice of representative Big Treeza, but then again maybe now was never the right time for Treeza to represent Scotland

    PS If you’re going to the Festivaal in Embra remember to try and get a ticket for Alex if you can it’ll be quite an eye opener I’m told

  223. Dr Jim says:

    I knew Donald Dewar slightly and Yes he was a Scuzz!
    or in clearer language a no user career politician who sold our waters to Blair for positional elevation for himself

    Not for Scotland

  224. OT I noticed in today’s daily stranger that the shipyard unions are furious that two thirds of the steel to build the three frigates on the Clyde, will be bought from Sweden.

  225. colin alexander says:


    If the SNP believe they cannot win independence, because the majority at not yet ready to vote for it. Then they should say that, not shy away from it.

    Then the SNP should campaign for the assertion of Scottish sovereignty within the Union – putting Holyrood as sovereign in Scottish matters, while stating their belief independence would be the best option, but accepting the majority are not yet ready for it.

    They could test that by having MPs manifestos on UDI and MSPs on Scottish sovereignty within the Union different manifesto mandates.

    Scottish sovereignty is be a given. A fact. It just needs to be asserted. Courts, politically, whenever and however possible.

    How is it a fact? Cos you say it is, I do, Scotland’s people say it is. That makes it a fact, cos we are Scotland. We are the people that make it a fact ( and supported by historical documents).

    As an aside, Nicola Sturgeon should not be MSP, FM, Party leader, chief negotiator, campaign leader, main spokeswoman etc.

    It’s too much for any person and too much concentration of power in one pair of hands.

  226. ronnie anderson says:

    Robert Peffers My responce to Dewars statue is give it bread n chips the Seagulls will leave a lovely multi coloured layer of shit on him .

  227. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 13 July, 2017 at 11:26 am:

    “You keep saying you want a sovereignty for Scotland referendum 1, but how are planning to hold this one then?”

    Wait up! Heedtracker. We all, genuine Indy supporters, now know the guy is a proven fraud. Leave him now to talk to himself. He will be doing less damage to our cause speaking to wingers than being let loose among fence sitters, so just let him rave on to himself.

    In the first place he knows, as should all Scots, that Scotland has no need to prove that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign as it is the basis of the Scottish Rule of Law and is ratified as such in the Treaty Of Union, (Article 19), and the Scottish Government already is mandated to holding another referendum WHENEVER THEY CHOOSE TO HOLD ONE, and they need no one’s legal permission to do so.

  228. ronnie anderson says:

    Three Tears fur Teresa lol.

  229. Smallaxe says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    13 July, 2017 at 11:11 am
    @Fireproofjim says:”

    Would this be of any help, Mr Peffers?

    The Radical War or also known as the Scottish Insurrection of 1820!

    Peace Always

  230. colin alexander says:

    @Robert Peffers

    How am I a fraud? Prove your allegation.

  231. stewartb says:

    A number of people have mentioned the announcement on moving 2,900 UK civil servants to Edinburgh. This brings something to mind!.

    On 3rd May 2017 Craig Murray posted a cautionary article under the title “Theresa May moves to replace devolution with Westminster control’. This followed a speech by May in Glasgow ( ).

    Craig reproduced this extract from the speech:

    “But the devolution of powers across the United Kingdom must not mean we become a looser and weaker union. We cannot allow our United Kingdom to drift apart. For too long the attitude in Whitehall has been to ‘devolve and forget’.

    But as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, I am just as concerned that young people in Dundee get a good start in life and RECEIVE THE EDUCATION THEY NEED (my emphasis) to reach their full potential as I am about young people in Doncaster and Dartford.”

    And she went on:

    “We need to build a new ‘collective responsibility’ across the United Kingdom, which UNITES ALL LAYERS OF GOVERNMENT, to work positively together to improve the lives of everyone in our country. As the Government serving the whole United Kingdom, formed in a Parliament drawn from the whole United Kingdom, the UK Government exercises a responsibility on behalf of the whole UK that transcends party politics and ENCOMPASSES ALL ASPECTS of our national life.”

    Craig’s take on May’s speech was notable. He stated: “In Glasgow today she notified Scotland of a specific intention for Westminster to intervene in devolved areas to ‘improve outcomes’ in Scotland. There is no other possible logical analysis ….”

    And now we have an announcement of a new civil service ‘hub’ – a ‘centre of excellence for public services’ no less – in Edinburgh, for UK government departments as yet unspecified other than including HMRC.

    It would be possible to view this as really (just) a rationalisation of the UK government’s estate in Scotland, bringing staff located in disparate Scottish offices together in one place, if it were not for some ‘odd’ phrases in the press release that suggest something more could be going on (see: ).

    For example, what does this really mean: “create a centre of excellence for the DELIVERY OF PUBLIC SERVICES IN SCOTLAND (my emphasis) and facilitate more effective working between GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS WITHIN A DEVOLVED ADMINISTRATION.”? Brings Craig’s earlier alert into sharper focus.

  232. Ian Brotherhood says:

    The Dewar statue plinth bore that ludicrous ‘Father of The Nation’ plaque for years.

    Then, indyref happened. Crowds gathered at Buchanan Gallery steps on a regular basis. Saturday before Sep 18th 2014 the top end of Buchanan St was chockablock. Must’ve been giving Labour GCC the heeby-geebies so they changed the plaque to ‘First First Minister of the Scottish Parliament’ or suchlike.

    One of these days it won’t be a traffic cone plonked on his napper as a jape – it’ll be a chain around the heid attached to back of a truck, and poor auld Donald will be face-down, no matter what the plaque says.

  233. heedtracker says:

    colin alexander says:
    13 July, 2017 at 12:03 pm

    You want a ref on Scottish sovereignty Colin? or one of you did.

    Another hopeless yoon divert, shock:D

    Keep em coming though. We all know you want Holyrood closed and that will be that.

    Its an odd way you’ve taken to bring about the end of Scottish democracy Colin, although it is pretty samey.

    YOU can spot guys like you or Rock etc because of your deep and honest concern, SNP are bad, you really weally want independence, but we must stop voting SNP and above all else…

    yoon btl basic training means, you must never ever criticise or be cheeky about, the UK, this farce union, SLab, Colonel Ruth, Beeb gimps, Scotland or any other of the 400,000 crew of liggers, massed ranks of sleazy old UKOK hackdom etc

    It is that Easy Colin. Anyone can be a concern troll.

    To be fair, Rock’s the most skilled, he can get everything switched away from topic, on to what a rotter he/she is.

    Well done Rock.

  234. Breeks says:

    gus1940 says:13 July, 2017 at 10:53 amO/TDoes anybody agree with me that the hurried erection of the Statue of Donald Dewar the alleged Father of The Devolved Parliament was at best premature and probably undeserved?… ”

    Yes, and not wishing to pick an old scab, I feel much the same about the parliament building.

    Be interested to know how its bearing up, or falling to bits.

    Not exactly a vanity project, but Labour wanted their mark all over it, right down to the statues outside. Didnt like it when built and hasn’t grown on me since.

  235. colin alexander says:

    @heedtracker, We ARE sovereign. We always have been.

    Any referendum or other method would only be a means of ASSERTING it not to decide whether we are or not.

    As I’ve said, in disagreement with Jim Sillars, who said NO handed our sovereignty away. No it didn’t, it said we didn’t want to assert our sovereignty as independent, yet. Doesn’t mean we aren’t sovereign, we are just lending power to WM and as sovereign we can recall it again, either by making Holyrood sovereign or by indy whenever we choose to.

    For once, I have to agree Robert Peffers is right on that matter.

  236. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This article is poisonous, hateful and totally inaccurate. Just don’t watch it, go to mass, worship your Pope or spend some time with your family and a wee cup of tea. The fact you spent so much time moaning shows the only true hatred comes from you.”

    Hi “G”. I’m from a 100% Protestant family stretching back for uncountable generations, but don’t let that get in the way of your kneejerk bigotry.

  237. colin alexander says:

    @ Heedtracker

    The suggested referendum was on declaring HOLYROOD sovereign over WM on all matters pertaining to Scotland.

    We the people of Scotland are already sovereign. We could assert our sovereignty to declare Holyrood as sovereign parliament for Scotland.

  238. Moonlight says:

    It occurred to me that:- O/T

    The English voted for Brexit and got it, happy.
    The Welsh voted for Brexit and got it, mostly happy.
    The Northern Irish voted remain, unhappy, but they can all have a nice shiny Eire passport, keep their EU citizenship and maybe vote in EU elections.
    The Scots, voted remain, unhappy, but the Scots have no way out unless Nicola keeps the lifeboats swung out on the davits and the engines fuelled and warm.
    I for one trust the lady to act in my best interests and my indy vote is ready and waiting any time she chooses to call on it.

  239. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “How ignorant you English and Scottish are.
    36%??? It 50/50 here now.”

    Try clicking the link, you thick twat.

  240. colin alexander says:


    Dr Jim took note, shame you didn’t.

    How to lose an indyref in easy, simple steps:

    Step 3: refer to the non-Scottish UK nationals living in Scotland approx 25% of whom voted for indy as “liggers”. When the SNP are determined non-Scots get the indyref vote even if these voters have just moved here days earlier.

  241. colin alexander says:


    My English partner says she voted YES for Scottish independence in 2014. She says she voted SNP at the GE this year.

    Ligger? Isn’t that just as offensive as the anti-Irish bile from yesterday?

  242. Smallaxe says:

    Update; Not that it’s any great help but here it is anyway!

    Peace Always

  243. colin alexander says:

    To summarise:

    How to lose an independence referendum in simple, easy steps:

    1. Insult voters religious beliefs

    2. Insult independence supporters with obscenities in an open forum

    3. Refer to non-Scots voters – a quarter of whom voted YES last time as “liggers”.

  244. Petra says:

    Thanks for the links Smallaxe (Nana) X.

    Interesting to read that the Police in NIreland are NOW going to look into the sectarian hate-filled cr*p, that is flags, effigies, posters etc, that was stuck to the sides / tops of bonfires and in full view for everyone to see. Surely they were aware of this long before the matches were lit? On a positive note the publicity surrounding this is showing the NIrish Police up big time and surely a real embarrassment for them. Great to see too that the numbers of OO followers is decreasing in NIreland. On the other hand are they all coming here, lol?


    Some news to cheer you all up. From Prof Robertson’s brilliant site.

    ‘Will Scotland’s oil hit $100 (or more?) a barrel again after 2020?’

    ‘Murphy’s law or egg on his face again? Jim Murphy’s consultancy falls short of FTSE 100 status. Don’t laugh. Oh, OK, just a wee chortle then.’

    ‘Unemployment at record low, employment up, economy growing, youth unemployment amongst lowest in Europe, business confidence increasing, oil jobs returning, health indicators improving to world’s best: That’ll be Norway? No? Scotland!? SNP baaaad!’

    ‘Another 200 new North Sea jobs.’

    ‘Independent Scotland’s oil wealth is assured as Aramco chief predicts huge shortages.’

    And MUCH more. Check it out.


    Any chance of everyone just totally ignoring the individual who’s posting Unionist guff on here? Clogging up one article after another with his (her?) drivel.

  245. jfngw says:

    Good to see the person that was the preferred candidate of the PLP for Labour leadership had such a good time at the OO hate festival. What does it tell you of the Labour party, answer they would walk hand in hand with the OO if required to.

  246. Scottish I Am says:

    They’ve been showing the marches for as long as I can remember. Not surprised by any of it anymore.

  247. Petra says:

    More GOOD news.

    ‘Superdrug owner announces plans to create 1000 UK jobs over the next year.’

    ‘The owner of high street chains Superdrug, The Perfume Shop and Savers is set to create over 1000 new jobs over the next year as it presses ahead with expansion plans.

    Superdrug plans to open 30 new stores, Savers 45 and The Perfume Shop 13 after the firms reported stellar growth in 2016, defying the gloom hanging over the high street.

    Approximately 600 jobs will be created at Superdrug, 450 at discount health and beauty firm Savers and 78 at The Perfume Shop…..’

  248. Smallaxe says:

    Petra, you’re most welcome, here’s another one.

    EU (Withdrawal) Bill;

    Peace Always

  249. Cadogan Enright says:

    That the small team of Wingers that run the BBC-focused BBC-bias archive have been working with GA Ponsonby to bring forward this funder for a one-month trial of a new project

    If you enjoyed the poster campaign, I can recommend this one – 40% of funds raised since this morning

  250. Fred says:

    @ Smallaxe, the 1820 Society is looking for new members, oor ain Donald Anderson is a leading light in the Society!

  251. Petra says:

    Brexit bad news.

    ‘Theresa May risks MP rebellion over Brexit cancer fears.’

    ‘BREXIT might not give you cancer, but it could very well stop you being cured, according to the head of the Royal College of Radiologists.

    Nicola Strickland, the president of the body representing clinical oncologists and radiologists, told the London Evening Standard that pulling out of the Euratom treaty, which coordinates research programmes for the peaceful use of nuclear energy and transport of nuclear fuel, could harm UK access to material widely used in scans and treatment.

    She said: “Radioactive isotopes play a crucial role in diagnosing and treating cancer in the UK……..’


    Good news for an Independent Scotland. Even more tourists heading to Scotland.

    ‘Carbon dating breakthrough links St Columba to sixth-century monk’s cell on Iona.’

    ‘ARCHAEOLOGISTS have uncovered conclusive evidence that a wooden hut traditionally associated with St Columba at his ancient monastery on the island of Iona dates to his lifetime in the late sixth century.

    Carbon dating has led to the breakthrough, which proves samples of hazel charcoal, unearthed in an excavation of a wattle and timber structure on Iona 60 years ago, are from the exact period Columba lived at a monastery on the Inner Hebridean island. The structure is believed to be the monk’s “cell” where he prayed and studied.

    The samples were excavated in 1957 by archaeologist Professor Charles Thomas but with radiocarbon dating only just emerging at the time, they were not tested and instead kept in matchboxes in his garage in Cornwall…..’


    Mair jobs!

    ‘Oil and Gas: Wood Group wins Maersk Culzean field contract.’

    ‘At peak manning, approximately 200 new oil and gas jobs will be created by the project to support the new three platform, high pressure, high temperature development, which is expected to begin production in 2019….–wood-group-wins-maersk-culzean-field-/1499731080079

  252. Jack Murphy says:

    OT. TODAY. BREXIT. Sorry if this has been reported earlier.
    European Commission Audiovisual News–VIDEO:

    “Michel BARNIER, Chief Negotiator for Article 50 Negotiations with the United Kingdom receives Nicola STURGEON, First Minister of Scotland”:

  253. Petra says:

    @ Smallaxe says at 1:26 pm….. ”Petra, you’re most welcome, here’s another one. EU (Withdrawal) Bill. Peace Always.”

    Thanks for that Smallaxe. I wonder if the MSM, such as STV and BBC, will be informing the Scots of this?

    ‘….The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill does not return powers from the EU to the devolved administrations, as promised. It returns them solely to the UK Government and Parliament, and imposes new restrictions on the Scottish Parliament and National Assembly for Wales.

    “On that basis, the Scottish and Welsh Governments cannot recommend that legislative consent is given to the Bill as it currently stands.

    “The Bill lifts from the UK Government and Parliament the requirement to comply with EU law, but does the opposite for the devolved legislatures: it imposes a new set of strict restrictions. These new restrictions make no sense in the context of the UK leaving the EU……”

  254. Petra says:

    @ Jack Murphy says at 1:50 pm …..”OT. TODAY. BREXIT. Sorry if this has been reported earlier. European Commission Audiovisual News–VIDEO:

    “Michel BARNIER, Chief Negotiator for Article 50 Negotiations with the United Kingdom receives Nicola STURGEON, First Minister of Scotland”:

    I’ll bet Barnier was proud to shake Nicola’s hand knowing that she’s one of a few decent, honest, most hardworking politicians left in the UK now.

    Meanwhile Dugdale, Davidson (plus Big T) and Rennie will be bealiebags.

  255. Robert Peffers says:

    @Smallaxe says: 13 July, 2017 at 12:12 pm:

    ” … The Radical War or also known as the Scottish Insurrection of 1820!

    It is the correct era but the one I had read and tried to return to involved mostly women, mainly wives and widows of servicemen.

    As I pointed out the news was suppressed and what I had stumbled upon was a report from a small very local newspaper. I believe from Clydebank. It had personal reports from some women involved and some pictures of people and events.

    So it does sound like a part of your suggested timeframe that I did know about. What was so startling about the particular one I wanted to read more about was that it was women, mainly housewives, being shot at and killed by the UK/British army.

    Furthermore the author of the piece indicated that it was far from being an isolated incident.

  256. t42 says:

    I think since brexit n.i. independence is now favored by 45%+. Yet msm is pushing uk vrs irish unification and everyone has taken the bait and polarized. They cant see the elephant in the room.

  257. Robert Louis says:

    So, today it is reported in the yoon media, that Mundell has said the following regarding the threat by the FM to refuse legislative consent for the brexit bill.

    Mundell said, “I am optimistic that we will obtain that consent, partly because I was told in relation to the 2012 [Scotland] bill, in relation to the 2016 [Scotland] bill, in relation to the fiscal framework, that this consent would not be forthcoming and, ultimately, it was.”

    So, folks, there you have it, that is how seriously the Westminster Government take the threat by the FM to refuse legislative consent.

    I reckon, as always, and as Mundell today predicts, for reasons known only to themselves, the ScotGov will completely back down and pass the legislative consent, just like they have (as Mundell points out) done on several occasions previously, when they really shouldn’t have.

    Brexit is coming, aided and abetted by the SNP Scottish Government, and against the overwhelming wishes of the Scottish electorate.

    Sad days.

  258. Meg merrilees says:

    Petra 1.54

    Fluffy was on the news at one.
    The BBC introduced the item saying that the SNP accusations of a power grab from devolved nations following Brexit was false and that in fact the opposite was true.
    David Mundell has said it will be Golden opportunity for the devolved nations.

    Cut to video of Fluffy saying carefully chosen words that the ‘EU laws would be fully integrated into Scots law and that there would be many more powers coming to Scotland.”

    Neither telling the truth!

    But they did report that Barnier had met Nicola, Corbyn and Carwyn Jones and that he wanted to discuss Brexit with the devolved ‘areas’ ( can’t remember what word was used… nation/admins/countries/groups???) but they were also careful to add that he would only be negotiating with the UK gov.

  259. Robert Peffers says:

    You can always tell when the independence cause is surging forward when previously, apparently committed indy supporters, start to chip away at the SNP as being ineffective.

    True colours then start to show in sheer desperation as these numpties attempt to run down the only organisation that has brought us forward to the brink of independence.

    Do these people imagine for a moment Scotland would be so close to independence if there was no Scottish National Party? Perhaps they think that the totally ineffectual Labour Party’s, so called, left wing has brought us this far.


    What galaxy are these numpties from? The planets of Sol are all close enough to planet Earth to know the only hope of Scotland becoming independent is via the SNP and these false colours tractors are only showing their own desperation and disillusionment.

  260. Andy-B says:

    Why doesn’t England or Wales for that matter suffer from this neferious evil? It has been used as an effective divide and conquer tool in NI, and Scotland, to a certain extent.

    One could add that the O/O members and kin folk along with the majority of RFC supporters cost us the 2014 indyref.

  261. Eddie says:

    Growing up just north of Glasgow City Centre, on the main route for all of these parades to meet up as the headed into the City, was hell on earth during the summer (every blooming weekend).

    That there was a Catholic Church on the main road simply gave them a reason to hang about and play as louds as they possibly could (always timed to be passing during a mass) but they where always deferential as they passed the Protestant Church barely 300 yards away. Statues smashed and parishioners threatened, such lovely people they where.

    It reminds me of a documentary done in the 80’s that had a film crew tail the parade from Ruchill in Glasgow. Friendly banter to start with that descended into threats of violence as the drink flowed and paranoia struck as they realised they where still being filmed.

  262. colin alexander says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    How to lose an independence referendum in simple, easy steps:

    1. Insult voters religious beliefs

    2. Insult independence supporters with obscenities in an open forum

    3. Refer to non-Scots voters – a quarter of whom voted YES last time as “liggers”.

    4. Call everyone person who does not praise the SNP a tray-tor.

  263. Andy-B says:

    Poor tourists, they probably thought it was a carnival parade, and not a march of shame through the streets of NI.

    Scotland, starting with the SNP held Glasgow council must try and ban this sectarian vileness. As for the BBC, I think we all know their game by now.

  264. Robert Peffers says:

    @Meg merrilees says: 13 July, 2017 at 2:54 pm:

    ” … but they were also careful to add that he would only be negotiating with the UK gov.”

    Of course they will only negotiate with the United Kingdom for they have no choice in the matter. The EU member state is the United Kingdom but they are well aware that it is a kingdom and not a single country.

    They also know that the kingdom in this case has only two partners and they are well aware that Westminster is acting as the de facto parliament of the country of England that is claiming it has full legal sovereignty over the Kingdom of Scotland and treating the Kingdom of Scotland not as a kingdom but as just another country of England’s dominion.(That term is derived from, “domination”).

    However, that is not how diplomacy works, they will not come out and tell the Westminster Establishment to, “Take a hike and good riddance to you”.

    They will go through the motions of attempting to negotiate a reasoned deal they have no intention of ever agreeing to but will take every chance to frustrate the UK negotiators who will NOT be the UK PM or her cabinet.

    The negotiators will be UK Civil Servants and EC Commissioners, (a.k.a. EU Civil Servants). So first of all this will draw things out as the negotiators will have to return to their respective legislatures. In the EU they will then debate and vote upon the particular matter and any one of the other 27 member states can veto any EU decision. While the UK negotiator will report back to Theresa who will have to decide, (decisions seem problematic for that lady), and the Westminster parliament, (including the opposition), will not like NOT having any say in the matter.

    So consider the implications of the EU now speaking openly with the FMs of Scotland, Wales & N.I. but not openly with The UK PM who they have effectively snubbed to date.

    Here’s another clue for you. When they spoke with Theresa they made her travel to meet them in Europe and then made her wait till after they had dealt with everything, and everybody, else before seeing her – very briefly after keeping her waiting all day.

    Yet here they are speaking to the First Ministers of the devolved countries of the UK and there is no FM of England because Westminster is attempting to claim to be both the, none elected as such, parliament of England and the government of the whole United Kingdom at the same time while funding and running England as the United Kingdom and using EVEL to prevent the, “Dominions”, from daring to interfere in England;s business.

    If that doesn’t tell you how they are going to proceed then you are just not paying attention.

  265. jfngw says:

    Remember when the UK government used to offer babbles to their colonised natives, now we have Mundell just offering the promise of baubles that they have no intention of delivering.

    They believe the Scots will accept this empty promise, it will be so embarrassing if they are correct. Let’s see if the people in Scotland have any backbone or are they going to roll over and accept subjugation forever. We seem to be at a point were we decide Scotland is still a country or just becomes a region of England.

  266. Dan Huil says:

    Hopefully the Scottish government is holding very private talks with the EU. Scotland has friends in the EU; it has no friends in britnat Westminster.

  267. Foonurt says:

    Aye, thoan’s wurr man. Ah bloatit neck, wae ah bunnet.

    Citrus juices, flowin.

    Colin – yurr awfae lik Robert, fae Fireball XL5.

    Aboaleesht brig tolls & student-fees; new schulls; Ayrshire College; rentit/social hoosin; Boardurrs railway; Embra trams; Dalzell steelworks; Cambuslang steelworks; Lochaber aluminium smelter; Glesga soothside hoaspitull; nae bedroom-tax; new Foarth Brig; Scoattish Independence referendum, 2014 & …… .

  268. Scottish Steve says:

    Not surprised in the slightest. I do think it’s dangerous that this nonsense is being celebrated and endorsed by the BBC. It is emboldening the Orange bigots.

    But hey, it’s the propaganda broadcaster for the British state. So it’s just doing it’s job.

    This Wings post has made me exceptionally glad that I do not pay the TV license.

  269. Breeks says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    13 July, 2017 at 3:13 pm
    You can always tell when the independence cause is surging forward when previously, apparently committed indy supporters, start to chip away at the SNP as being ineffective….Do these people imagine for a moment Scotland would be so close to independence if there was no Scottish National Party? Perhaps they think that the totally ineffectual Labour Party’s, so called, left wing has brought us this far…

    Nobody is saying that.

    But where I stand has a lot more to do with my own lifelong personal convictions, injustices I see, and an Independence campaign made real by the SNP, yes certainly, but also YES, Wings over Scotland, NewsNet Scotland, Bella Caledonia, National Collective, Derek Bateman, The National, Craig Murray. GA Ponsonby, Prof Robertson, Elaine C Smith, Brian Cox… I could go on. Phantom Power Films, the Common Weal, the Greens and Paul Harvey, Michael Greenwell and his podcasts with Peat Worrier. Wee Ginger Dug, Lesley Riddoch… and everybody from all walks of life with wildly different perspectives all pulling together, and yet it still wasn’t enough.

    I forget who said it now, somebody here on Wings, but YES realised pretty quickly that it needed the SNP, but the SNP is slow to realise just how much it needs YES.

    This time around, say anything bad about the SNP and you’re a tract…or who gets their name put on the SNP’s “we know who your are” list. What a fecking joke! I could weep if I wasn’t so fecking angry.

  270. Brian Powell says:

    I’m not sure why Bernier would meet the FM of Wales, as Wales voted to leave, impossible position to argue anything from, and of course the FM of NI was firmly in the leave camp, as was most ‘Loyalists’. Not sure what she would be arguing for.

    Nicola Sturgeon was the only one arguing before, during and since that we should stay, and the Scotland vote was overwhelmingly to stay.

    FM Nicola Sturgeon is the only one with a mandate to be there.

  271. stewartb says:

    O/T .. and apologies if this is stretching the subject envelope too far!

    Given its coverage by BBC Scotland News online, I suspect tonight’s BBC Reporting Scotland may feature the latest ‘Scottish education is very bad’ story viz. “Teacher shortages may be limiting the range of subjects available to pupils in schools, according to the Scottish Conservatives”. We have to get to the bottom of the article before we get this:

    “Cosla, which represents the vast bulk of councils, said the Conservatives had asked a very narrow question designed to get a specific response. A spokesman said: ‘We all know that statistics can be made to say what you want them to. At present, the system and structure enables young people to access courses beyond what any individual school can offer’.”

    The article also (typically) fails to offer context. It could have noted for example that the Scottish Qualifications Authority records that for Higher level courses across Scotland c. 45 different subjects are offered. Of these, c. 19 were taken in 2016 by more that 3,000 students. And c. 37 of the different courses have seen an increase of more that 50% in the numbers achieving qualifications in them in 2016 over 2015.

    However, I will be very surprised if Reporting Scotland covers the report on university application statistics released today by UCAS (Universities and Colleges Admission Centre: )

    I heard about this on the Radio 4 Today programme this morning. It reported a notable fall in applications to universities by UK domiciled students. However, notwithstanding the BBC’s frequent willingness to cover adverse criticisms about the SG’s policies for higher education in Scotland, the BBC coverage I heard today made no mention of any differences between what are distinct higher education systems in the four UK nations. So what will you miss if you don’t go to the source? Here are just a few interesting statistics:

    1) Data for student applicants by domicile ( )

    4% drop in applications from UK domiciled applicants between 2016 and 2017

    5%, 4% and 5% drop in applicants domiciled in England, NI and Wales respectively

    1% drop from applicants domiciled in Scotland.

    Applications from people domiciled in Scotland has risen from 42,930 in 2013 to 48,940 in 2017. In England and Wales, there has been a drop in the number of their home domiciled applicants since 2013: in England the 2013 figure was 441,790 and in 2017 it is 437,860. NI has the same figures in 2013 and 2017. Only Scotland has achieved an overall increase.

    2) UK domiciled applicants broken down into male/female applicants ( )

    drop of c. 4.8% in female applicants domiciled in UK in 2017 over 2016.

    drop of c. 5.5% in female applicants domiciled in England

    drop of c. 3.25% in female applicants domiciled in NI

    drop of c. 5% in female applicants domiciled in Wales

    increase of c. 0.01% in female applicants domiciled in Scotland.

    The number of male applicants domiciled in Scotland has been at between c. 18,000 and c.18,700 between 2013 and 2017 i.e. fairly stable. The number of female applicants has risen steadily from c.23,000 in 2013 to 30,000 in 2017.

    3) Perhaps even more notable, the number of female applicants domiciled in Scotland in the age groups 30-34 and over 35 has increased most this year over last, by 6% and 9% respectively. The female applicants in these same groups has plummeted by 21% and 22% respectively in England; and by 8% and 6% in Wales.

    One might have thought these and other differences between the four systems across the UK would have been of interest to the BBC’s audiences!

  272. colin alexander says:

    Of course WM will try to power grab.

    WM is sovereign because the people of Scotland allow it to be.
    The Govt of Scotland allow it to be. The SNP allow it to be.

    No wonder the UK Govt are confident that’s not going to change. It hasn’t till date.

    Proof? I hear you say. Here’s your proof:

    The Scottish Govt allowed Westminster to take control of power over Renewable energy subsidies:

    “Critically, the most recent UK Energy Act erodes the Scottish Government’s devolved powers and therefore discretion over the operation of the ROS. Furthermore, the new CfD FIT mechanism that will replace the RO/ROS in 2017, removes this control from the Scottish Government anyway.”

    Kudos to Stu, he warned youse:

    Unless, the Scottish Govt, Scottish people, Scottish Parliament assert Scotland’s sovereignty either within or without the Union.

    We already have the evidence of what happens. The SNP Scottish Govt allowed it to happen. The people of Scotland allowed it to happen:

    “removes this control from the Scottish Government”.

    WM took back a power we already had. How much easier not to give it in the first place.
    Very easy under an impotent, all talk no action SNP.

    Unless this time they grow a pair and stand up to WM.

  273. jfngw says:

    BBC News doing an emotional piece on how Theresa May shed a tear when losing the election, they are trying to humanise her here. Of course they don’t point out that the tear shed was actually for herself and how history will remember her as a fool that called an election with a reasonable majority and lost it.

    Meanwhile she plans to strip power from the SG whilst giving the NI assembly more financial muscle. Of course to achieve this she needs the DUP to vote for curtailing the SG powers, dangerous having one devolved area controlling powers from another. But I assume she expects full co-operation from Lab & LibDem and with the noises from them I can see how she feels confident.

  274. mike d says:

    Andy-b 3.26pm. You’ll get no argument there Andy,absolutely on the money.

  275. Robert Peffers says:

    @Breeks says: 13 July, 2017 at 4:43 pm:

    “Nobody is saying that.”

    Oh! Yes they are.

    “but also YES, Wings over Scotland, NewsNet Scotland, Bella Caledonia, National Collective, Derek Bateman, The National, Craig Murray. GA Ponsonby, Prof Robertson, Elaine C Smith, Brian Cox, Phantom Power Films, the Common Weal, the Greens and Paul Harvey, Michael Greenwell and his podcasts with Peat Worrier. Wee Ginger Dug, Lesley Riddoch… and everybody from all walks of life with wildly different perspectives all pulling together, and yet it still wasn’t enough.”

    And how many on that list are, or are not, members of the SNP, Breeks?

    “I forget who said it now, somebody here on Wings, but YES realised pretty quickly that it needed the SNP, but the SNP is slow to realise just how much it needs YES.”

    Once more I ask how many YES supporters are SNP members also?

    “I could weep if I wasn’t so fecking angry.”

    And just what makes you imagine that you have the sole monopoly on being angry, Breeks? So you have the right to be angry because I feel your constant criticism of the SNP absolutely no different from, say, members of the LOL?

    To read Wings these days is hardly different from reading the MSM or listening to the BBC. A constant daily tirade of SNP BAAD from Wings commenters most of who seem to imagine the YES movement is not mainly supported by people who are either SNP members or life long SNP supporters.

    Well I’m of the opinion that it is the SNP and its members that have brought us this far and I’m of the opinion they know what they are doing. You will not gain independence by charging it like a bull charging a gate and that is what the whiners are urging the SNP to do.

    I’ve said it many times but seems I must say it again. We have no chance of independence without the SNP and if you want to change SNP policies you only need to be a member and put your policies forward to your branch with a seconder for your proposal for it to be considered.

    If you just want to stand on the outside and shout SNP BAAD you would be better joining one of the other political parties and continue shouting SNP BAAD and changing those other political parties policies to support independence.

    Mind you could all just get together and form your own Scottish Independence supporting party that has SNP BAAD in its manifesto.

  276. sassenach says:

    Robert Peffers @5-17

    That needed saying young man – and you did – thanks.

    Colin (or whichever one of you is currently posting), for gawd’s sake gie us a break, you’re like a broken record. Ask for a rise in troll rates, and spend it on education, I suggest!

  277. ronnie anderson says:

    One of Nana’s links from last year , worth a wee look through.

    Just as we suspected, there were no search warrants applied for in Scotland. We attribute this to the fact that the Scottish legal system would be far more robust than its England/Wales and Northern Ireland counterparts in analysing every TV Licensing search warrant application.


  278. Ron Maclean says:

    The aims of the SNP are to obtain independence for Scotland and to further the interests of the Scottish people.

    SNP members pay the SNP to achieve these aims. SNP voters vote for the SNP to achieve these aims. The onus is on the SNP.

    Note to People’s Friend Tendency (political wing) – recently the SNP lost 400,000+ votes and 21 MPs.

  279. mike d says:

    The snp lost 21 mp’s because the ge in Scotland was all about unionism v nationalism. So that’s the high tide mark,and if that’s the best that those loyalist scum can do ,with all the help they’ve had from their msm pals.Then bring it on. That’s why they are sh****ng themselves.

  280. Sandy says:

    Request to ALL posters this evening.
    Colin Alexander, “BUGGER OFF”.
    Then completely ignore him.

  281. Petra says:

    @ Robert ……

    Is this what you’re looking for?

    …….’The failure of the police to control the riot prompted the Coalition Government under David Lloyd George to react, after Scottish Secretary Robert Munro described the riot as a “Bolshevist uprising”. The Coalition Government sent 10,000 English soldiers;armed with machine guns, tanks and a howitzer, who arrived on the Friday night to restore order, the largest deployment of British troops on native soil. A 4.5 inch Howitzer was positioned at the City Chambers, the cattle market was transformed into a tank depot, Lewis Guns were posted on the top of the North British Hotel and the General Post Office, armed troops stood sentry outside power stations and docks, and patrolled the streets. They were deployed for a week, to deter any further gatherings.

    No Glaswegian troops were deployed, with the government fearing that fellow Glaswegians, soldiers or otherwise, might go over to the workers’ side if a revolutionary situation developed. Under the orders of Field Marshal Sir William Robertson, Scottish regiments were transported to Glasgow from other parts of Scotland, specifically to avert this possible scenario. Troops from the Highland Light Infantry were also transported from Maryhill Barracks from Maryhill Central railway station to Buchanan Street railway station but without their Glaswegian men. Other troops, including the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, Gordon Highlanders and Seaforth Highlanders, arrived from Stirling Castle, Redford Barracks and Fort George into Queen Street Station…….’

  282. Legerwood says:

    stewartb @ 4.43

    The BBC did put some of the very useful data you have provided on their web site article on the fall in University applications. But just the broad stats for the 4 parts of the UK. Using their web site as a fig leaf as usual to cover the deficiencies of their news broadcasts.

  283. Thepnr says:

    Lots of interesting comments on the article today. It’s like watching the tennis with your head going back and forward, 15-0, 15-15, 15-30 LOL.

    If you fail to see by now that support for Independence means supporting ALL that also support Independence then you are missing the big picture. Honestly I really don’t care if you support the SNP or not, or if you support Bella Caladonia or Wings Over Scotland.

    None of that matters at all, all that matters is that when you get in the voting booth then you vote Yes next time you are asked the question.

    Every one of the Yes supporting websites and political parties have their own individual slant on their vision of an Independent Scotland, then fair enough. In fact the more the merrier because there is no way we are all ever going to agree on the same topics and every issue. We should take support for Independence from wherever we can gather it is my view.

    Support all that support Independence no matter their own opinion or beliefs, naysayers might want to take a rest. I’m ignoring their negativity anyway. We move forward regardless, moving backwards is not an option.

    Despite what some might say on Wings, we are still making headway and will continue to do so. Hope not hate, remember that and keep one goal in mind, our Independence, nothing else counts.

  284. Legerwood says:

    Brian Powell @ 4.43

    Wales may have voted to leave but I don’t think they want a hard Brexit. Wales were represented in the Supreme Court case about Article 50. They also submitted a similar document to the UK Government as the document submitted by the SG with the same result – instant dismissal.

    Therefore they have the right to be there today.

  285. mike d says:

    Petra let no one be under any illusion about our ‘brave boys’.if ordered to do so,British troops would shoot protesters dead on the streets of Glasgow,Manchester,Birmingham,London or wherever.

  286. “Red Honda (Ulster)” – GENIUS

  287. mike d says:

    The British army,thick cnuts told by posh cnuts to shoot poor cnuts.

  288. ronnie anderson says:

    Wee message fur Fluffy Mundell that Bonanza you speak of is copywrited tae NBC.

  289. Dan Huil says:

    @Thepnr 6:03pm

    Well said. Keep our eyes on the prize.

  290. stewartb says:

    Legerwood @6.02pm

    Thanks for the info. My core point is that there is no consistency over when the BBC (and notably BBC Scotland) report UK-level info or Scotland-only info. My concern is that too often choices may get made that are limiting opportunities for positive framing of the SG and Scotland.

    To illustrate. The Radio Scotland Newsdrive programme tonight did cover the UCAS applications report. Having read the report earlier in the day, it’s fascinating to see what their BBC education correspondent took out of the statistics and how the radio coverage was framed. Several things stand out.

    Firstly, at one point the anchor presenter says something like ‘the number of applicants from people in Scotland is also down’: by intonation this negative take on the data was supposedly a question but it set an initial frame. The education correspondent replies along the lines of ‘yes but it was small, its close to a historic high’.

    So why the initial negative framing rather than simply an open question? And at no point was the 1% drop in the Scottish figures contrasted with the 4%-5% falls in the other home nations.

    Secondly, much of the Newsdrive coverage focused on the fall in the number of EU (other than UK) domiciled applications to Scottish universities. In what was a bit of a rambling presentation, there is no mentioned of the fact that although applications by these EU domiciled students is down 4% in 2017 compared to 2016 in Scotland, this is smallest fall in the four nations (in England the fall was 6%). So Scotland is not uniquely vulnerable amongst the four nations.

    And thirdly, no other positive indicators for the Scottish situation relative to the rest of the UK that could have been used, such as ones I noted earlier, found their way into the Newsdrive coverage.

    So from my listening to BBC radio coverage of this topic today: i) Radio 4 highlights a UK wide ‘negative’ but omits on this occasion to point out what is a different, more positive story in Scotland; and then BBC Radio Scotland does almost the opposite when (b) it gives at best a ‘grudging’ and very partial coverage of the story in this UCAS report for Scotland and chooses to omit any comparison with less positive data for the rest of the UK, notably England. So, a ‘double whammy’ from the state broadcaster?

    This is on but one topic – and I accept, far from the most crucial subject of the moment – but as a case study, it is far from atypical in my view.

    Just emphasises the urgent need for the skills and ongoing attention of GA Ponsonby!

  291. Robbo says:

    Fluffy is a lying scroat and always will be a lying scroat. Every time that man comes on telly I want to puke and puke and puke.And puke some more!

  292. Robert Peffers says:

    @Brian Powell says: 13 July, 2017 at 4:43 pm:

    “I’m not sure why Bernier would meet the FM of Wales, as Wales voted to leave, impossible position to argue anything from, and of course the FM of NI was firmly in the leave camp, as was most ‘Loyalists’. Not sure what she would be arguing for.”

    It is what I posted just before this. It is diplomatic protocol.

    Not good form to speak to Nicola and ignore the other two. This is because the situation in regards the EU has to take them all into account until the situation is clear. That is the Welsh leader and N.I. leader quite obviously will have quite different perspectives of their standing in regards to the EU, The UK and of course each other.

    The EU must not openly show favours so they treat them all equally. The N.I. one will consider that her country is Britain just as the Westminster lot consider they are Britain even although they are only the UK part of Britain and, as unionists, they believe they all belong to one country.

    Matter of fact the two of them and England do as both Ireland and Wales were Kingdom of England dominions in 1542 and 1284 respectively and so joined the Union on the English coat tails.

    Scotland is not part of the Kingdom of England and never has been but is a full and equally sovereign Kingdom partner in a two partner Union of kingdoms and the only other signatory on the Treaty of Union with England. Thing is it is not protocol to treat them as such while the negotiations are under way.

    So the EU will treat them all as equal but there is a diplomatic catch there just the same. By only speaking to N.I. Scotland & Wales they make it glaringly obvious that England, as a country, has no elected as such, parliament.

    This thus emphasises that Westminster is operating as the de facto Parliament of England but is calling itself, and acting as the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

    So, instead of Scotland being a full and equally sovereign partner Kingdom with the Kingdom of England, Scotland is being treated unfairly by Westminster as just another English dominion country.

  293. mike cassidy says:

    From 4 years ago –

    some historical context and the inevitable bbc dismissal of claims of partiality.

    And a comment from today on yesterday’s events.

  294. Andy-B says:

    Well as some have already alluded to in here, Theresa May’s “feel sorry for me” interview, could’ve brought tears to a glass eye. However, how anyone, sane of mind could feel sorry for a Tory, attempting to cement her authority, in the HoC, and ergo crush any opposition, is beyond me.

  295. Robert Peffers says:

    @ronnie anderson says: 13 July, 2017 at 5:44 pm:

    “One of Nana’s links from last year , worth a wee look through.
    Just as we suspected, there were no search warrants applied for in Scotland. We attribute this to the fact that the Scottish legal system would be far more robust than its England/Wales and Northern Ireland counterparts in analysing every TV Licensing search warrant application.”

    Well nearly right, Ronnie. In fact the difference is twofold. First of all there is no English style law of Trespass in Scotland for the simple reason that as the people of Scotland are legally sovereign they cannot be prevented from access to the land that belongs to the sovereign people of Scotland.

    However, under Scots law there are laws relating to invasion of privacy and anyone can legally stop cold callers by posting a notice at their gate saying something like, “No Hawker”, or, “No Cold Callers”. No one, not even Royalty, can prevent Scots from roaming unless they get too close to the actual dwellings.

    Furthermore, to get a search warrant requires either a person’s name or proof that the applicant suspects there are criminal activity taking place on the premises. The latter requires the applicant to be the Police.

    The other big problem, for the licence investigators is there is no Scottish law of Blackmail. Instead we have the law against, “coercion”. Essentially coercion involves threats to reveal substantially true or false information about a person to the public, a family member, or associates, or threats of physical harm or criminal prosecution.

    Note that last one, “Threats of criminal prosecution”, and that means the licence fee strong arm guys are actually, (under Scots Law), engaged in criminal activity as serious as is Blackmail in English law.

    They are thus open to being charged with coercion by constant threats of criminal prosecution that are there on every letter they send you for they certainly threaten you with fines of a maximum £1000 plus paying for the time you have not had a licence and the costs of the prosecution.

    Yet there is no statutory requirement for anyone to tell the BBC anything, it is not illegal to own a TV set that you perhaps use as a monitor for say, your home movies, DVDs, Blu-rays or whatever including YouTube and such like.

    So the truth is that if they call on you then you can request that they leave at once and you have no need to tell them anything. If they do not leave or make any attempts to, “Investigate”, (like looking through windows), they are the criminals and you are justified in calling the police to have them removed.

    Laughably, if you handle things correctly, it is the investigators that are the criminals.

  296. Andy-B says:

    Watching the news tonight and seeing Prince Harry laugh with several Dunkirk survivors, who made it back from the shores of France, brought to my mind the thousands of Scots, who died to make it possible for those men to live.

    Yet no mention was made regarding the 51st Highland division, who sacrified all to save 340,000 troops trapped on the beaches of Dunkirk.

    No doubt this new movie named Dunkirk will be a success, but will those valiant and extremely resilent Scots who died so other might live get mentioned? I rather doubt it.

  297. Meg merrilees says:

    Compare these two articles.

    First one is the BBC reporting on the Scottish webpage about Nicola’s visit to Brussels today – much of it is actually about what Fluffy said.

    Then read this one on the BBC Wales page about Carwyn Jones’ visit on the same subject.
    A lot more about him and strong leadership. found out a lot more of what Nicola said and discussed on the Welsh page.

    Subtle difference.

    I read the report on the OO parades on the BBC NI webpage.
    Seems this was the most peaceful 12th ever and a model for future parades, a tribute to all those community workers who have been working together behind the scenes:

    The officer acknowledged the “hard work of our partners and those within local communities who have contributed to making this a day people were able to enjoy”.

  298. Dr Jim says:

    I’m off for a break to talk to some Independence supporters before I climb inside my computer and kill that Dix keyboard

    Somebody send it a Trojan

  299. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ron Maclean says: 13 July, 2017 at 5:49 pm:

    “Note to People’s Friend Tendency (political wing) – recently the SNP lost 400,000+ votes and 21 MPs.”

    Note to Ron McLean, “The SNP recently won the election for Westminster MPs with more MPs than all other parties combined”.

    Scottish National Party 35
    Scottish Conservative Party 13
    Scottish Labour Party 7
    Scottish Liberal Democrats 4
    Total Number of Scots MPs 59.

    Awa an bile yer heid. The SNP have a far greater comparative majority of MPs at Westminster than all other Scottish branches of the YoonYoonists branch offices put together and a greater majority than any actual UK Government, has held on a UK basis, whether Labour, Tory or coalition for a considerable number of years.

    Idiots like you are spinning so bloody hard yer balls micht flee aff wi the centrifugal force o yer ain creation.

  300. Legerwood says:

    Stewartb @ 6.38

    I fully agree with what you say about how the BBC coverage of this university applications issue. It happens times without number across so many reports. The sins of omission and commission are always to the fore. Their reporting is partial in every sense of the word.

    On the specific issue of the university applications one of the things that jumps out when you compare Scotland’s figures with rUK is the much smaller drop in applications from school leavers AND mature students in Scotland.

    An obvious contributing factor to this difference is the absence of tuition fees in Scotland. This is very much a ‘live’ issue down south at the moment since Labour said they were going to scrap them. So the BBC duly obliges its political masters by glossing over the figures so the connection cannot be easily made if all you report are the headline figures.

  301. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 13 July, 2017 at 6:00 pm:

    “…….’The failure of the police to control the riot prompted the Coalition Government under David Lloyd George to react, after Scottish Secretary Robert Munro described the riot as a “Bolshevist uprising”.

    Not really, Petra. It is the right era and the same campaign but this was one of the West of Scotland towns outside of Glasgow. It would, in those days, not been part of Greater Glasgow.

    I think it was Clydebank. Much of the History of that uprising has been suppressed and, it was obviously far more difficult for Westminster to suppress the information of a city than what was then relatively small towns.

    The article was in a wee local newspaper and gave details from some of the women involved. These women told of being gunned down and dispersed by UK troops.

    It was heart breaking reading of mothers, widows of Scottish soldiers, struggling to survive and being fired upon by UK troops from the army their men had died fighting with.

  302. Liz g says:

    Well now that we are a good way down this thread,my tuppence worth…what it’s worth.
    I don’t think we in Scotland should bother our arse with the Orange Order.
    I would go so far as to say leave them alone!

    They are not only becoming less and less popular every year, most find them an embarrassing thing to explain.
    I know R*pe clause Ruth is trying to give them a bit of a punt….but even she who is hard necked enough to try and justify the R*pe clause won’t openly claim them as hers.
    It’s no as if jumping around in a pretendy soilders outfit is whit gives her a rid neck!!! Must be something else about them then.

    There’s no Church in Scotland that I know of that’s saying….yes it’s our flavour of Christianity they march to defend,and those marchers are our member’s, although I do think that they (the Churches) should be asked,just so we are sure.
    Which pretty much leaves the Union…..
    While I personally think that the Union died the day they made the Vow….if it hasn’t it is most certainly dying now.
    It’s not going to survive much longer,no matter how much they march.
    Those who believe in the Orange Order,will be used by Westminster,and used badly…. surely this can be no surprise to anyone?
    Westminster see Orange/Unionists sympathy as a resource to be exploited, probably to try and stop Independence,if it can.
    But also to try to destabilise Scotland for as long as possible….to mitigate the competition for London.

    To try and ban them will be buying into Westminster’s play book.
    They (orange order) thrive when they think they have a ban to fight.
    While I don’t like the marches and what they stand for any more than the next person with a functioning IQ.
    In just a few more years there will be NO Union anyway.
    We have put up with it for so long why give a reason to prolong the inevitable?
    Leave them to try to explain why they march in a country that is no in any Union and has a secular Constitution….with banners of an Irish battle and an English Monarch….
    They will eventually stop or make themselves look..Certifeckenfiable…..
    Cannot wait for the day they are advertising for re-enactors to show the weans whit the Walk Wiz back in the day!
    Don’t let’s make it a memory of any violence around our right to our Sovereignty.

  303. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Meg merrilees @ 14:54:

    Fluffy was on the news at one.
    The BBC introduced the item saying that the SNP accusations of a power grab from devolved nations following Brexit was false and that in fact the opposite was true.

    Actually, it’s far worse than that, and for once it’s an even bigger issue than Scottish autonomy, since it’s malign shadow falls over the whole of the UK. The Bill in effect puts all law-making capability in the hands of the UKGov without effective restraint. So much for the much-vaunted “sovereign” Westminster parliament.

    In effect it’s a kind of “soft coup” backed up unconditionally by a bunch of 13 utterly useless Tory rubber-stampers from Scotland and (for the moment anyway) by an extreme (in both senses) minority of cretinous bigots from NI.

    This is where things start to get interesting again. What will the SG demand for acceding to the English their acknowledged right to follow their own chosen direction? I would suggest immediate control over all broadcasting and energy, and agreement to have indyref2 at a time of the SG’s own choosing. And maybe more besides, but certainly no less.

    Theresa is listening, after all. Or so she says…

  304. Meg merrilees says:

    Re the Repeal Bill.

    I’m reading repeatedly that the Scottish government is being referred to as the ‘devolved administration’

    The claim: Brexit Secretary David Davis said in March that the repeal bill would allow the UK Parliament and Welsh, Scottish and Northern Ireland administrations to scrap, amend and improve laws.

    After the bill comes into effect, probably in March 2019, the UK Parliament, and the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, will be able to amend, scrap or keep laws that originated from the EU.

    The spokesman said First Secretary of State Damian Green had contacted the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and the government was confident of gaining their consent.


  305. meg merrilees says:

    here’s another one:

    The UK government has also previously rejected Ms Sturgeon’s calls for the Scottish government to be involved in the Brexit talks, and for Scotland to keep its single market membership even if the rest of the UK leaves.
    It has pledged to “consult” with the UK’s devolved administrations during the Brexit process.

  306. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Louis
    Mundell is lying, and it’s interesting he is being so blatant in his lies as well, he’s usually more sneaky. I wonder what’s behind it?

    No, the ScotGov did not say they would refuse consent for 2012 act, there were changes the Lords were trying to make to remove powers from Scotland, and the SG said they would refuse, the changes were removed (HoL or HoC can’t remember), so the SG accepted it.

    No, the ScotGov didn’t say they would refuse consent for the 2016 act, they said they would refuse on the basis of a fiscal framework which would cost Scotland, I forget, £7 billion perhaps. The fiscal framework was changed, and whatever some may say, Swinney won those negotitaions and got a square deal in the framework. Then the SG accepted 2016, as well they might – it was as close to Smith as we were going to get, and does give Scotland more powers.

    Chip, chip, chip, more powers, chip chip chip, more powers. That’s the parallel process the SNP / SG are following, with the other parallel being of course Indy and Indy Ref 2.

    Personally, whatever criticisms of the SNP I have – including its abominal website – their strategy of taking more powers when they can, leaving less reserved, while pushing constantly for Indy, is not one I’d fault, in fact I’d say it’s absolutely correct and I wholeheartedly support it.

    Clearly Mundell is petrified the SG will refuse LC for the forthcoming attempts by Westminster to take back what should be devolved, and just as clearly, he thinks it’s the end of the Union – and his sinecure at Westminster when, not if, they do refuse.

  307. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Meg merrilees @ 21:29:

    After the bill comes into effect, probably in March 2019, the UK Parliament, and the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, will be able to amend, scrap or keep laws that originated from the EU.

    That’s the UKGov spin on it, of course. As if the devolved “administrations” (ie. glorified local councils) will get any real choice in the matter.

    In actual fact, it’s UKGov ministers that will decide who if anybody gets what, and even WM will be ignored. “Too much to do and too little time”, they will claim.

    The amount of weasel words being uttered by Weasel-in-Chief, David Davis, and echoed by his little Tory apologist in Scotland, is breaking new records, even for this bunch of devious emitters of bovine doo-doo.

    Look what happened already with Toom Tabard’s little faux-mutiny.

    We are going to be royally trampled all over, with the false promise of a few beads for the natives to give the MSM something nice to say as a convenient smokescreen.

    If we spinelessly let them.

  308. Ghillie says:

    Meg Merrylees @ 7.43pm

    That is actualy quite a stark contrast between the Welsh and Scottish BBC reporting.

    STV news covered Nicola Sturgeon’s statement re the Repeal Bill being a power grab but not in any way that be could described as in depth or insightful.

    This is an incredibly important aspect of the hugely negative impact of Brexit on Scotland and the very real danger of the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly being stripped of powers by Westminster in the very near future.

    The Welsh Secretary said it was an issue of trust, that Westminster would hold the powers which SHOULD go instantly to the devolved Nations in a ‘holding pattern’ until it could all be sorted. HAH !

    Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us twice or umpteen times, STILL shame on you.

    This, and the UK government’s plans to increase their presence in Edinburgh (along with all the other mad ideas coming out of their wee let’s keep Scotland British raah raah raah committees) needs to be watched very carefuly and challenged at every turn.

    And THIS is where I really appreciate the statemanship and skills of Nicola Sturgeon !

  309. Breeks says:

    Robert Peffers says:13 July, 2017 at 5:17 pm@Breeks says: 13 July, 2017 at 4:43 pm:“Nobody is saying that.”

    Oh! Yes they are… ”

    I’m not going to debate the issue, YES prided itself on being a broad kirk, and frequently stressed it wasn’t the SNP’s poodle. Of course there was thorough integration, but there was a seat for everybody, whether they were SNP or not.

    When I am critical of the SNP, it is when I see real weakness, or if not weakness a strength that isnt being utilized. It’s a bit like coaching a team before an approaching cup final. You beast them hard, make them sweat, test themselves and dig deep to know their inner reserves so that come the day, the big day when it matters, they know what to do. They have no weakness and everything the enemy throws at them has been anticipated, analysed, and a robust strategy developed to meet the challenge.

    I do ask tough questions, not to damage the SNP, but I hope to make them raise their game. Do their homework. Know their brief cover to cover. Don’t be sloppy and unprepared.

    I don’t see the SNP raising their game. Their attitude in Therea’s General Election was bizarre. I know it was a stitch up, designed to bushwack the SNP, but it very nearly worked. The SNP played a very convincing bushwackee.

    I don’t see any stiffening of resolve or developing strategy. All I see are the SNP hall monitors closing down dissenting voices. If you see a weakness or crack you’ve to shut up about it. The sycophants and acolyytes are running the show. Things are fine because they say so.

    Fair do’s. I won’t say another word about the SNP strategy. Not because I can’t stand my ground, or think we’re home and dry, but sometimes your squad has a weakness it just has to run with, and you just have shut your mouth and pray that weakness doesn’t reveal itself on the day and sow the seeds for defeat.

    In 2014, the weakness I saw was an inability to counter the media running the show, and therein lay the biggest factor in our defeat.

    I also asked what sending the tremendous SNP majority to Westminster was actually going to achieve apart from filling every seat on the bus to London. Relax. I won’t mention the “s” word everybody is bored hearing but so few people understand, or speculate what could have been made safe but wasn’t.

    So, it’s 2017, and Englands spectacular Brexit misadventure has given us a second chance. Or do we have the SNP to thank for Brexit too Mr Peffers?

    You do the maths. I’ve said my piece til I’m hoarse and dejected.

  310. Thepnr says:


    No need to feel dejected, plenty of room at the table and such as yourself most welcome.

  311. Cactus says:


    Sponsored by the BBC.

    @93,502,600 current viewings:

    It’s a celebration to last throughout the years Scotland!

  312. Thepnr says:


    Class. Let’s get it right up them 🙂

  313. Cactus says:

    Aweright Thepnr ~

    Aye their collective time is a comin’ soon!

    (like when Warden Norton reads the morning paper, is about to be caught and he looks to the words on the picture frame over on the RHS of his office, before he goes pop, from The Shawshank Redemption motion movie. Remember what the words on the picture frame said anybuddy…?)

    Anyway, here’s some more scenes from the movie:

    “OTV – Brought to you in association with the BBC…”
    “Previously on OTV…”

    Scary times!!!


  314. Davosa says:

    Just surprised Colonel Buffalofucker was not on a white horse at the front of the parade !

  315. Cactus says:

    SO bring ur good times…

    And ur laughter too..

    Ahhh hahaha.


  316. Isobel Blythe says:

    Since the Maybot bribed the DUP, anything with a British flag is good.

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