The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


To infinity and beyond

Posted on January 08, 2012 by

Nick Clegg's been upsetting people this week. Now, you might reasonably retort that there was nothing unusual about that, especially in a week when newspaper headlines suggested that the Lib Dems were down to a single voter. But the unusual thing on this occasion is that he's upset people by telling the truth.

Much of the Scottish political village was up in arms about comments the Deputy Prime Minister made in an interview with the Scotsman, which the paper chose to present as Clegg calling supporters of Scottish independence "extremists". The story set various camps off into various types of huff. Liberal Democrats, for example, were angry both at the comments and at the Scotsman – which they accused of "misreporting" Clegg on the grounds that he hadn't actually used the word "extremists" – while some nationalists were predictably outraged at the perceived slur.

But these complaints are wrong on every level. Firstly and most obviously, Clegg DID use the word "extremists" – you can see it in paragraph 8 of the Scotsman piece, where the paper quotes him thusly:

"All the evidence suggests that [greater devolution] is the mainstream of opinion and the extremists are those who either think that we need to yank Scotland out of the United Kingdom tomorrow, or those who say there should be no further change at all."

This statement is, in itself, entirely accurate. When it comes to the constitution, independence and the status quo are the extremes of opinion (discounting the real lunatic fringe who want Holyrood closed down altogether). But even where more sober commentators recognised this fact, they misleadingly left out the last part of Clegg's quote, giving the false impression – just as the Scotsman had done – that he'd only applied it the nationalist camp, when in fact he'd explicitly labelled the supporters of the status quo in the same way.

And, indeed, himself. Because while the Deputy PM was clearly attempting to isolate Labour and the Tories and carve out the popular middle ground for his own party as it embarks on yet another consultation on "Home Rule" (despite the Calman Commission, whose findings the Lib Dems backed, having barely closed its doors), the fact of the matter is that whenever the referendum arrives, the Lib Dems will by default be campaigning for the status quo too, making them just as extremist as everyone else. And despite all the faux-shock, that's something that everyone already knew long before Clegg opened his mouth.

There is absolutely no chance that the latest Lib Dem talking shop will produce a devo-plus proposal to be included in the referendum. Even if they wanted to they'd never get such a thing approved by their UK coalition partners (and unlike independence, any altered devolution settlement requires the consent of the Westminster parliament), and they don't want to anyway – the Scottish Lib Dems have been absolutely unequivocal, along with the other opposition parties, in demanding a one-question Yes or No referendum. And the likelihood of the Lib Dems being in power on either side of the border by then, and therefore in a position to negotiate or grant any further devolution at a later date anyway, is pretty much zero.

So when it comes down to it in 2015 or 2016, by Nick Clegg's definition everyone will be an extremist. Only the two extreme positions will be on offer, and the voters will have to pick one or the other. This blog, for one, commends Nick Clegg on stating that simple and obvious fact, and isn't quite sure why anyone else would be offended by it.

4 to “To infinity and beyond”

  1. rai says:

    so by your reconing the right to self determination is an extremist position??? i wonder how the rest of the civilised independant nations feel about that

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      It’s at one extreme of the debate, yes. If you hadn’t noticed, this blog enthusiastically supports independence. But that doesn’t mean taking offence at what are perfectly accurate descriptions of both the pro-independence and pro-status quo positions. Clegg was certainly trying to create a misleading impression, but what he actually said was unarguably technically correct.

      Reply
  2. DougtheDug says:

    The problem with the use of the words, "extreme", and, "extremist", by Nick Clegg is that although in the context of the constitutional debate they can both simply mean a postion at one end of the spectrum or somebody who supports that position their meaning changes in common usage where, "extreme", usually means a position far from what is necessary or normal and an, "extremist", is someone whose views are fanatical and even tinged with violence.
    Again just as with Ken MacIntosh, Michael Moore and now Nick Clegg the unionists don't like being called unionists. They're devolutionists. Which is like claiming that you are not in any way a bird as you are a duck. In any case I thought the Lib-Dems were federalists which though still a very unionist viewpoint protects the powers of regional parliaments within a constitution.
    Again Nick Clegg is assuming that devolution which is just a variant local government scheme in unionism is somehow in a position which is between the union and independence which it is patently not.
    Has Nick as the leader of a party which is committed to the integrity of the UK but with federal regional parliaments ever worked out that there is no midpoint between Scotland being part of the UK and Scotland being independent.
    The claim that the Lib-Dems are planning more powers for Scotland is just a jam-tomorrow strategy. In the light of the fact that all three unionist parties support and wrote the Scotland Bill which simply fiddles with the current Scotland Act and in the light of the fact that no party has come up with even a draft question for the empty Devo-Max option in the independence referendum ballot paper it is probably fairly safe to say that Devo-max, the maximum amount of power Lodon is willing to devolve to Scotland is already here.
    For those who support Devo-max, enjoy it because it is already here.

    Reply
  3. Gruntus says:

    "Which is like claiming that you are not in any way a bird as you are a duck"
    That Python logic sums up the con/dem/lab ever changing positions in regards to Scotland.
     

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,894 Posts, 1,239,509 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Confused on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “note the cunning way this is framed – free energy, or worse still – being PAID to use it, is…Apr 14, 23:12
    • Confused on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “oooh … I remember that now … it was so over the top … and yet a great “analogy” for…Apr 14, 23:11
    • George Ferguson on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “@Dan Great stuff Dan. I went on a cruise for a special anniversary and saw how the other half live.…Apr 14, 20:55
    • Dan on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Don’t do it George, because that’s exactly what the “Greens” want you to do! There’s nothing says you’ve reduced your…Apr 14, 20:24
    • Geri on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: ““A full investigation into the media allegations” Notice it’s not into the clowns who planned on recruiting this fantasist! I…Apr 14, 19:59
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “C I think they did the bad Anglo desperate to bum the Scots hero already in Outlander.. Maybe they’ll do…Apr 14, 19:47
    • Alf Baird on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “The top of the iceberg, considering our colonial hierarchy. Might be an idea to check on the hundreds of other…Apr 14, 19:15
    • George Ferguson on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I have just viewed the highlights of the Scottish Greens manifesto. I am awa to cut my wrists.Apr 14, 18:08
    • Confused on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “American reboots can be terrifyingly awful – the wicker man (nicolas cage), get carter (stallone) – but Cavill is a…Apr 14, 17:39
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I see they’re filming a Highlander reboot. A classic film, something of its time complete with Christopher Lambert and his…Apr 14, 16:39
    • agentx on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “A TOP LGBT activist has quit amid claims he used fake credentials to secure a senior position in a charity…Apr 14, 16:33
    • JCD on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Check this out if you will. Kind of o/t but I thought it wouldn’t hurt to try to bring some…Apr 14, 16:10
    • 100%Yes on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I thought today I’ll have a look for a Scotland football top with a view to support Scotland and the…Apr 14, 14:59
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Cynicus says: 14 April, 2026 at 11:43 am « Are there questions for Scottish politics here? » ————————— For sure.…Apr 14, 13:35
    • Aidan on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I’m sure they were happy before meeting you Geri . .Apr 14, 12:38
    • Nicky T Naquetti on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “LOOKS LIKE HE GOT THE BOOT,(assuming he even had an arse that could be kicked in the non-digital realm). Either…Apr 14, 12:33
    • Alf Baird on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: ““What have the English stolen from you James?” Our land and national identity, replaced by the colonial myth, same as…Apr 14, 12:27
    • Cynicus on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Thanks for the new link, Fearghas. Are there questionqs for Scottish politics here? Orban’s downfall was partly due to his…Apr 14, 11:43
    • Geri on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “LOL! Aye, they’re always the life & soul of the party. Not! I don’t think I’ve ever met a happy…Apr 14, 10:54
    • C MacKay on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “all very strange-why submit a cloneApr 14, 09:11
    • C MacKay on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “No-one with that name registered as a birth in Scotland’s people,there is a marriage in 2017Apr 14, 09:10
    • C MacKay on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “No-one with that name registered as a birth in Scotland’s peopleApr 14, 09:09
    • Mark Beggan on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: ““Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”Apr 14, 04:26
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “C’mon Beggars Seriously now: I think you need to calm down and have a Horlicks, you’re in way over your…Apr 14, 01:42
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Northcode @ 9.26 “Wish the Unionists would be wittier on here”.. It’s the dour pro English Presbyterian Calvinist thing; like…Apr 14, 01:29
    • Marie on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Agreed. ISL is not a country – it’s a psychiatric unit.Apr 14, 01:12
    • Young Lochinvar on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Geri Wackadoo Pastor? Whit? Pastor Faggat?! Gets about doesn’t he with his tedious sermonising eh?Apr 14, 00:00
    • James on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “Jay; aye, what a welcome relief it was for a short while to be spared the horse shit that McFuckFace…Apr 13, 21:36
    • Northcode on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: ““…I didn’t realise “James” personally owned billions…” The power of Christ compels… I wish tae God the power o Christ…Apr 13, 21:26
    • Aidan on Do You Believe In The Westwood?: “I didn’t realise “James” personally owned billions in North Sea oil?Apr 13, 20:58
  • A tall tale



↑ Top