The world's most-read Scottish politics website

Wings Over Scotland


To infinity and beyond

Posted on January 08, 2012 by

Nick Clegg's been upsetting people this week. Now, you might reasonably retort that there was nothing unusual about that, especially in a week when newspaper headlines suggested that the Lib Dems were down to a single voter. But the unusual thing on this occasion is that he's upset people by telling the truth.

Much of the Scottish political village was up in arms about comments the Deputy Prime Minister made in an interview with the Scotsman, which the paper chose to present as Clegg calling supporters of Scottish independence "extremists". The story set various camps off into various types of huff. Liberal Democrats, for example, were angry both at the comments and at the Scotsman – which they accused of "misreporting" Clegg on the grounds that he hadn't actually used the word "extremists" – while some nationalists were predictably outraged at the perceived slur.

But these complaints are wrong on every level. Firstly and most obviously, Clegg DID use the word "extremists" – you can see it in paragraph 8 of the Scotsman piece, where the paper quotes him thusly:

"All the evidence suggests that [greater devolution] is the mainstream of opinion and the extremists are those who either think that we need to yank Scotland out of the United Kingdom tomorrow, or those who say there should be no further change at all."

This statement is, in itself, entirely accurate. When it comes to the constitution, independence and the status quo are the extremes of opinion (discounting the real lunatic fringe who want Holyrood closed down altogether). But even where more sober commentators recognised this fact, they misleadingly left out the last part of Clegg's quote, giving the false impression – just as the Scotsman had done – that he'd only applied it the nationalist camp, when in fact he'd explicitly labelled the supporters of the status quo in the same way.

And, indeed, himself. Because while the Deputy PM was clearly attempting to isolate Labour and the Tories and carve out the popular middle ground for his own party as it embarks on yet another consultation on "Home Rule" (despite the Calman Commission, whose findings the Lib Dems backed, having barely closed its doors), the fact of the matter is that whenever the referendum arrives, the Lib Dems will by default be campaigning for the status quo too, making them just as extremist as everyone else. And despite all the faux-shock, that's something that everyone already knew long before Clegg opened his mouth.

There is absolutely no chance that the latest Lib Dem talking shop will produce a devo-plus proposal to be included in the referendum. Even if they wanted to they'd never get such a thing approved by their UK coalition partners (and unlike independence, any altered devolution settlement requires the consent of the Westminster parliament), and they don't want to anyway – the Scottish Lib Dems have been absolutely unequivocal, along with the other opposition parties, in demanding a one-question Yes or No referendum. And the likelihood of the Lib Dems being in power on either side of the border by then, and therefore in a position to negotiate or grant any further devolution at a later date anyway, is pretty much zero.

So when it comes down to it in 2015 or 2016, by Nick Clegg's definition everyone will be an extremist. Only the two extreme positions will be on offer, and the voters will have to pick one or the other. This blog, for one, commends Nick Clegg on stating that simple and obvious fact, and isn't quite sure why anyone else would be offended by it.

4 to “To infinity and beyond”

  1. rai says:

    so by your reconing the right to self determination is an extremist position??? i wonder how the rest of the civilised independant nations feel about that

    Reply
    • Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      It’s at one extreme of the debate, yes. If you hadn’t noticed, this blog enthusiastically supports independence. But that doesn’t mean taking offence at what are perfectly accurate descriptions of both the pro-independence and pro-status quo positions. Clegg was certainly trying to create a misleading impression, but what he actually said was unarguably technically correct.

      Reply
  2. DougtheDug says:

    The problem with the use of the words, "extreme", and, "extremist", by Nick Clegg is that although in the context of the constitutional debate they can both simply mean a postion at one end of the spectrum or somebody who supports that position their meaning changes in common usage where, "extreme", usually means a position far from what is necessary or normal and an, "extremist", is someone whose views are fanatical and even tinged with violence.
    Again just as with Ken MacIntosh, Michael Moore and now Nick Clegg the unionists don't like being called unionists. They're devolutionists. Which is like claiming that you are not in any way a bird as you are a duck. In any case I thought the Lib-Dems were federalists which though still a very unionist viewpoint protects the powers of regional parliaments within a constitution.
    Again Nick Clegg is assuming that devolution which is just a variant local government scheme in unionism is somehow in a position which is between the union and independence which it is patently not.
    Has Nick as the leader of a party which is committed to the integrity of the UK but with federal regional parliaments ever worked out that there is no midpoint between Scotland being part of the UK and Scotland being independent.
    The claim that the Lib-Dems are planning more powers for Scotland is just a jam-tomorrow strategy. In the light of the fact that all three unionist parties support and wrote the Scotland Bill which simply fiddles with the current Scotland Act and in the light of the fact that no party has come up with even a draft question for the empty Devo-Max option in the independence referendum ballot paper it is probably fairly safe to say that Devo-max, the maximum amount of power Lodon is willing to devolve to Scotland is already here.
    For those who support Devo-max, enjoy it because it is already here.

    Reply
  3. Gruntus says:

    "Which is like claiming that you are not in any way a bird as you are a duck"
    That Python logic sums up the con/dem/lab ever changing positions in regards to Scotland.
     

    Reply


Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.


  • About

    Wings Over Scotland is a thing that exists.

    Stats: 6,958 Posts, 1,247,792 Comments

  • Recent Posts

  • Archives

  • Categories

  • Tags

  • Recent Comments

    • Alf Baird on Ain’t it funny how things change?: ““hard-headed, grounded Scot who prefer a modicum of comfort and prosperity, whilst speaking English”. That’s a fair description of the…Jul 27, 16:00
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Right, sam, you won’t heed a fair warning, so stronger measures must be taken. As soon as you’ve picked, husked…Jul 27, 14:39
    • Aidan on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Now that you are monetising your work, you surely won’t be offering it around on here for free?Jul 27, 14:32
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “A subtle morph from “racism” to “doctrinal racism” there, Alf. Perhaps the criticisms are having a positive effect – forcing…Jul 27, 14:29
    • sam on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Alf, there is psychological need for those you mention to resort to insults. Search Assist “Colonialists often insult others as…Jul 27, 14:17
    • Alf Baird on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Yes, thaim whit kens fine thay are in a bad ideological or ethical condition position are aye clear tae see…Jul 27, 13:44
    • Spartan 117 on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “A good text with good points, unlike Alf’s rambling pseudointellectual scattershot linked further below.Jul 27, 13:25
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “@Southernbystander You dirty English basturts know only too well that a 4-feet wide strip of nettles will turn back even…Jul 27, 13:14
    • Chas on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Why would any sane individual want to read the repetitive shite that you write Alfie Boy? You actually turn people…Jul 27, 12:34
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “That’s quite a segue, Alf. I clicked the link to be met with a demand for payment in Yankee dollars.…Jul 27, 12:04
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: ““The actual electorate were minor players in the affair and had no statutory right to vote until 1955” Sorry, but…Jul 27, 11:47
    • Alf Baird on Ain’t it funny how things change?: ““Strangers are just friends you haven’t yet met” Much like critical theory fowk hivna read yet: https://pocketmags.com/us/iscot-magazine/issue-82/articles/the-theoretical-case-for-scottish-independenceJul 27, 11:46
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Strangers are just friends you haven’t yet met.Jul 27, 11:29
    • Onlooker on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Lorncal: ‘debunked’…’a nice thought’… Incredible the mental gymnast lengths you’ll go to to avoid any sort of giving of a…Jul 27, 11:25
    • John Cleary on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Hatey, you seem to forget that the 1951 election came just over one year after Labour had won the 1950…Jul 27, 11:12
    • diabloandco on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Having watched disgusting footage of the weekends ‘protest’ I would wonder at the phrase ‘Glasgow the friendly city’ I wonder…Jul 27, 10:43
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: ““Churchill was returned to power in order to usher in the second Elizabethan Age” So the majority of the British…Jul 27, 10:03
    • John Cleary on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Churchill was returned to power in order to usher in the second Elizabethan Age. From 1952 onwards all Parliamentarians, judges…Jul 27, 09:18
    • Hatey McHateface on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Good question, Auld Lochnagar. Seeing as how we’re focusing on the irrelevant, why do you think Churchill was returned to…Jul 27, 08:30
    • Minceheid on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Lorncal says: 26 July, 2026 at 7:46 pm Minceheid: it’s fire-raising in Scotland. No such crime as arson up here.…Jul 27, 05:51
    • Dave Llewellyn on The Wheels Of Industry: “Turnover in 2024 was £300000. Not bad for a dormant company. ( see Companies House ). And if they want…Jul 27, 02:36
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Northern Visions NVTV interview in Irish with English subtitles. Fionntan de Brun speaks to Seimi Mac Aindreasa in the studio…Jul 27, 01:12
    • Young Lochinvar on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “MB You clearly are unfamiliar with the concept of asymmetric warfare. Perhaps you’ve been reading Hateys pieces too much and…Jul 27, 00:43
    • Young Lochinvar on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “MB You clearly were never there. I assure you the streets in West Belfast had names that remain imprinted in…Jul 27, 00:23
    • Mark Beggan on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “This is a public platform. We don’t want to know what you have done to your genitals.Jul 26, 21:45
    • Mark Beggan on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Do you think they got their tunnel ideas from the Morlocks?Jul 26, 21:22
    • Dunx on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “If only.Jul 26, 20:35
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “THE CRISIS IN HUMANIST POLITICAL THEORY by Herman Dooyeweerd PDF: https://vcho.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/The-Crisis-in-Humanist-Political-Theory-B-Vol-7.pdfJul 26, 19:49
    • Lorncal on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “Minceheid: it’s fire-raising in Scotland. No such crime as arson up here. Not trying to be smart or putting you…Jul 26, 19:46
    • Fearghas MacFhionnlaigh on Ain’t it funny how things change?: “THE CRISIS IN HUMANIST POLITICAL THEORY by Herman Dooyeweerd (1931, republished 2010) Currently (re-)reading above book. Just reached the following…Jul 26, 19:30
  • A tall tale



↑ Top