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Wings Over Scotland

To better days

Posted on August 14, 2018 by

In the wake of this morning’s news that the Herald and Sunday Herald are to merge, we thought it’d be nice to remember the times – not SO long ago – when the paper used to do some proper journalism and there was some modest semblance of balance and professional integrity in the Scottish media.

Click the pics to enlarge as usual.

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  1. 14 08 18 12:56

    To better days | speymouth

223 to “To better days”

  1. Fraser Reid says:

    Those were the days eh……well maybe whats left of the Indy Support in one of thos rags will resurface and take the lead……

  2. Corrado Mella says:

    Is the Herald dead body being absorbed by the Sunday Herald, or the merge will see the Sunday Herald falter and die after the poisoned chalice of Capt’n Haggerty’s tenure?

    Either, it’s the sign that lukewarm support for an Independent Scotland, stymied by a BritNazi sister paper in the stable, has hit Newsquest in the nads wallet.

    Price of the company shares should be rock bottom. Time for a fundraiser to buy it and finally have an aggressive and staunch attacker on Scottish Independence in the press.

  3. Patrick Roden says:

    am I really the only person to comment on this article, or is there a problem with wings?

  4. Heather Mclean says:

    Very interesting, but how will this impact on the Sunday Herald being a supporter of Scottish independence?
    Will the Sunday Herald revert to the anti independence stance of the daily version? Can we just expect more SNPBADness on Sundays now?

  5. Andrew says:

    Well, colour me shocked….

  6. naina tal says:

    Or mebbes 7 days a week National and nae Sunday Herald? THe National’s recent questionnaire did pose the question about a 7 days a week National.. Just wondering.

  7. Heather McLean says:

    Patrick Roden says:
    am I really the only person to comment on this article, or is there a problem with wings?

    Wondering that too Patrick – couldn’t see my own comment on my iPad but for some reason there are several comments, including yours and my own visible on my phone?

  8. Breastplate says:

    All the Britnats working together, same ol’ same ol’.

  9. Donald anderson says:

    I thought they had merged. The National does not even have its own budget.

    Not just Whitehall did Labour’s dirty work, but British Intelligence and the Tame Union bureaucrats.

    Dick Leonard has come straight from FE to a Tame Union full time job. There are no Scottish Trade Unions in the “S”TUC apart from the EIS and that is only due to our separate Education system. The Scottish Trade Unions were closed down in 1974 with lucrative second top job bribes to the officials in London offices.

    The (older) SCWS was also stripped of it assets in 1974, including farms, factories, buildings, etc for the English Coop. The large block of private flats as you cross the Kingston Bridge was the SCWS HQ and was a prototype bid for Glasgow City Chambers.

    The “S”TUC HQ in Woodlands Rd, Glasgow is being sold off to property developers. Tame Unions are a cashline for the GB Unionist Labour Party and it official act as policemen for Labour Government’s zero percent pay freezes and austerity programmes. What do the Brit Left Corbynistas have to say about that?

  10. Brochan says:

    Images do not enlarge on PC.

  11. Proud Cybernat says:

    This is what we are up against – and always have been.

    London will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to keep Scots in the dark about our incredible wealth.

  12. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The Sunday Herald abandoned support for independence many months ago. I stopped purchasing it last year.

    We need a Sunday National.

  13. mike cassidy says:

    For those who still wonder why they want to hold on to Scotland.

    The Foreign Office fear says it all – still.

    The SNP a threat to their international position.

    We go.

    They go down.

  14. haudonthenoo says:

    I simply cannot believe we have been lied to..

    Lying ####s

  15. tom kane says:

    This is news that couldn’t have come at a worse time for media outlets that purport to present news of national significance to Scotland. The BBC has taken a hefty wound from its barbarous take-down policy, on essentially news items that they don’t want people to remember; the Herald is dissolving in plain sight, and that is a tragedy; and the Scotsman has dwindled away to being nothing more than a masthead of a thistle.

    None of these news outlets grew in stature when Scotland did. Now they are insects in comparison. Who’d have thunk it?

  16. Derick fae Yell says:

    It’s truly extraordinary that a supposedly commercial organ like the Sunday Herald chose to turn it’s back on the one USP it had, and which increased it’s circulation.

    Commercial suicide in the pursuit of the political lost cause of the Union. Bonkers.

    Do company directors not have a duty to their shareholders?

  17. Fred says:

    My laptop enlarges OK.

  18. John Lowe says:

    Will they close The National to protect the Yoonyon and say it’s to save money and jobs.

  19. Ian says:

    I wondered if the Douglas Fraser in the byline was the now BBC Scotland journalist and it is.

  20. Tam the Bam. says:

    Dave McEwan Hill @ 11-15am

    Me too.

  21. Clydebuilt says:

    Heather McLean + Patrick Roden, My comments take a while to show up . . .I’m Using an old iPad . . . . Maybe your iPhone is running upto date OS.?

    Have old iPads been got at?

  22. Clydebuilt says:

    Did the BBC take in Fraser to stop his damaging articles in the Herald

  23. AuldGrannie says:

    Could this have something to do with the BBC embedding journalists in local newspapers?

    Covert state control.

  24. schrodingers cat says:

    confirms what we already knew, question is, how do we disseminate this to people who dont know?

  25. Vestas says:

    To those going on about “commercial suicide”, perhaps you might like to consider that Newsquest Media Group Ltd gets 37 “reporters” funded directly by the BBC. (BBC Local Democracy Reporter scheme)

    The only organisation who gets more funding from the BBC is Trinity Mirror Group Ltd (63 “reporters”).

    Now given the money comes with BIG editorial strings attached the real question is who isn’t sucking Auntie’s teats?

    Worth remembering of course the money being used to subsidise these private companies is obtained via the threat of imprisonment in the first place (TV licence)…

  26. Douglas McGregor says:

    Douglas Fraser has obviously been sent for a bit of diversity training since , or maybe it was a condition of the new job.

  27. K1 says:

    The Sunday Herald committed suicide after the stitch up in May following our big march. Neil McKay’s victim stance didn’t do him any favours either, typical predictable reaction of calling foul on those who rightfully challenged him on defending that ‘take’ and picture with caption on thier front page. Citing as usual ‘bad independence supporters done us wrong by being so fucking angry and even worse ‘expressing’ that anger’. What the actual fuck did he expect after that appalling front page?

    Not surprised their sales plummeted after this. It almost makes you wonder whether that was a deliberately planned editorial stance that day, as an excuse to ‘merge’, it’s not a ‘merge’ is it? It’s the Unionist arm of the Herald that has killed off the handful of independence supporting staff on the Sunday Herald.

    Make ye wonder if an election of some sort is coming up? Herald getting ‘it’s ducks in a row’.

  28. Bonny Fechter says:

    Let’s not forget that the Scotland Analysis Programme Team – a core of 30 people from the UK Treasury – were given an actual Civil Service Award for their work ‘supporting the government during the referendum on Scottish independence.’

  29. Josef Ó Luain says:

    What the fuck would you expect Labour to do? Lying, cheating and using every weapon at your disposal in-order to defeat your enemies is hardly a new departure in politics.

    That’s why we’ll never know for sure whether we really lost the referendum in 2014.

  30. PhilM says:

    Interesting stuff about the politics/journalism nexus. This plucky young Douglas Fraser character really does a good job of discrediting that shadowy Alf Young figure. It’s lucky for us that we never hear from these tarnished, discredited figures again and certainly not as regular fixtures attempting to give authoritative, unbiased opinions on flagship BBC political shows. Thank God all that venality is behind us is all I have to say.
    On a lighter note the Dunblane hamsters are still doing well so there’s that…

  31. Sharny Dubs says:

    Mike Cassidy.
    They will tray anything they can, but in the end (and what they are trying to avoid) they will use violent oppression, as far as I am aware all the Scottish regiments are stationed in England while only English regiments are stationed in Scotland. Remember the Glasgow strikes? Scots troops confined to barracks?
    If it comes to violence the world will see them for what they are, and they don’t want that if possible.
    Ok I’ll take my tin foil hat off now.

  32. wull2 says:

    Are they intentional slowing some of our comments, hoping we will give up and go away.
    I will go away only when we get a YES vote.

  33. doug bryce says:

    UK lied to Scotland about the oil reserves in 1970s.
    McCrone report leaked under freedom of information in 2005 proved that beyond doubt. Google it if you are too young to remember!

    We are now on the verge of another oil bounty West of Shetlenad. Yet how many voters could tell you about the billion barrel discoveries on the Clair Ridge (BP) Or Rona Ridge (Hurricane Energy).

    The incorrect perception is that North Sea oil is a liability needing to be dismantled, rather than a strategic asset.

    Nothing has changed – UK state continue the same old lies.
    Oil revenues not include in GERs figure to make us look like a subsidy junky.

  34. jfngw says:

    The only useful thing about the MSM in Scotland is playing guess the source for each story. Is it based on a Labour/Tory/Libdem press release or a FOI request.

    There appears to be no other source of headlines available, real journalism seems almost dead. Most seem just glorified typists, regurgitating the latest handout from the comfort of their desktop.

  35. Vestas says:

    Actually it occurs to me most people are unaware of the “BBC Local Democracy Reporter” subsidies. Have a google & you’ll find the relevant document.

    The summary for Scotland is :

    Herald & Times – 4 “reporters”
    Edinburgh Evening News – 4 “reporters”
    Ayrshire Post – 4 “reporters”
    Fife Free Press – 3 “reporters”
    Aberdeen Journals – 3 “reporters”
    P&J – 1 “reporter”
    Helensburgh Advertiser – 1 “reporter”
    Shetland/Orkney/Western Isles each get 0.5 “reporters”

    DC Thomson & Co, Trinity Mirror, Newsquest, Johnston Press & Shetland News are all subsidised by the BBC.

    Make of it what you will.

  36. Truth says:

    Of course none of that sort of thing will go on nowadays. No siree, not a chance.

    And the band played “Believe it if you like”.

  37. wull2 says:

    My Name and email address inserts automatically sometimes at the comments, most times It does not ? Why.

  38. Artyhetty says:

    I don’t care about these disgusting, anti Scottish rags. I care greatly that Labour, Tory and the rest of these Britnats in Westminster, totally stole from Scotland, lied through their teeth, and at the same time, kept Scotland poor and begging.

    Criminal in the extreme,and surprising they didn’t have concentration camps built to keep the people of of Scotland in their place.

    They kept the people of Scotland poor, kept making drugs being easily available, put people in disgusting housing in ‘schemes’,
    they were totally content with the very low life expectancy in Scotland especially Glasgow, while siphoning away Scotland’s resources.

    The saddest thing, they still do it. These Britnats, thieves, must never be allowed to get their dirty rotten, life destroying hands on power at Holyrood again.

    Makes you wonder why the people of Scotland are not incredibly angry, and not chomping at the bit to get the hell out of England’s clutches. The thing is they are, which is why the war against the SNP and Scotland via the Britnat media is on red alert. Always.

  39. Cubby says:

    I don’t believe the Sunday Herald is a supporter of Scottish independence. Just don’t buy any of these so called newspapers. Just full of propaganda written by so called journalists that earn a living by telling Scots that they are rubbish and Scotland is rubbish. What a way to earn a living – disgusting. If you have to buy a paper make it the National.

    Just lies, misrepresentation, half truths and old fashioned deceit. They are now all UK government propaganda pamphlets. The media in Scotland stinks.

  40. scottieDog says:

    In the age of Fiat money it becomes clear that a nation’s wealth is simply the resources a nation can lay claim to.
    End of brief.

  41. Artyhetty says:


    Indeed, what a cunning plan the BBC have successfully placed plants in the ‘news’ papers to infiltrate what is fed to the people who don’t pay the tv tax. In Scotland, I am pretty sure you can’t be imprisoned for debt, but you can for non payment of fines. It’s why the BBC are not able to threaten people with imprisonment, like they can and do in England.

    These Britnats have been chasing and tearing foxes to bits (alive) for centuries, they have learned how to be cunning. Sadly the real foxes are outfoxed by these Britnat gits, as are so many of the population of Scotland.

    Not as many as they think though, people are waking up, we just have to outfox the rabid Britnat dogs in the next independence referendum don’t we. I think that’s what N.Sturgeon is planning.

  42. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Vestas @12.21pm

    I am sure I have posted on this before, but, the story needs repeating. The BBC’s Local Democracy Reporters initiative, is a scam which brings into the clutches of the big media companies, something which has been a staple of local journalism for decades – the lineage pool.

    Back when journalism was an honourable profession, each local paper had the pool, whereby, any local stories which could be sold onto the nationals was duly sent up the line through whichever staff member (usually the Chief Reporter) ran the pool, then, when the payments came through, the payments were shared-out.

    Where there was not an NUJ-recognised freelance locally, the lineage pool would also act as “stringers” if a particular paper wanted a local event covered. For instance, local paper Sports Editors still cover most of the interesting Scottish football matches for the national print and broadcast media.

    The BBC initiative, however, is in danger of putting an end to these nice little earners, and putting more money into the pockets of big business.

    Another bonus from the lineage pools was, the nationals quickly got an idea on which young local reporters had a chance of stepping-up, and did a lot of recruiting through the pools. Talent got recognised.

    But, as I said, that was back when journalism was an honourable profession.

  43. yesindyref2 says:

    Righty, time to post Part 6 of 6 of “Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum”.

    Technique #6 – ‘GAINING FULL CONTROL’

    It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings – and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the ‘ultimate victory’ as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a ‘honey pot’ gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.

    A different one as Wings itself is moderated by the Rev, and also since Wings does self-moderate a bit, in terms of racism, homophobia, sectarianism, anti-English etc. But interesting all the same!

  44. wull2 says:

    I am still here despite, the delay on posts, the disappearing posts, and the disappearing automatic inserting of name in the comments.

  45. Macart says:

    Those were the days. I miss Mr Bell’s commentary.

    Well? Bridges well and truly burnt these days to be sure and it’s doubtful that trust will ever be regained. Newsprint industry globally was already in a semi managed decline due to technological and societal change. Newsprint UK (for whatever reason) simply decided to speed up their own demise. (shrugs) Their choice.

    On the then revelation? No. Not shocked. Not then and not now. Conservatives and Labour were always willing partners in political expediency. When they felt their cosy wee duopoly under threat there was never a safer bet than they’d band together to protect the lifestyles to which they’d become accustomed.

    Who knew?

    Alliance? Not a problem for either of them. Rewriting history to suit their own needs? A mere bagatelle. Misleading and manipulating the populations of these islands? A daily routine. Part of their day jobs really.

    Some things never change and some things absolutely need to.

  46. Vestas says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran 12:52 pm :

    “But, as I said, that was back when journalism was an honourable profession.”

    I snipped a lot of your post. I sort of agree but makes no odds now as 95%+ of “news” these days is ripped off social media.

    Nobody goes out to report on stuff now.

    I’d be surprised if the “Ayrshire Post” (Trinity Mirror) had a need for 4 “reporters” as they felt Leicester Mercury could manage with 5 “reporters”.

    I missed it at the time but obvious in hindsight.

    Daily Mail used to own loads of these regional publications (like the Leicester Mercury) & sold them PDQ. Never really understood that.

    Daily Mail being paid by the BBC to push BBC charter lines?

    Would have been great to watch as their online site ate itself 🙂

  47. Craig P says:

    2014: the 40th anniversary of Better Together.

    I remember a programme on telly after the McCrone report saw daylight. Dennis Healey, who was chancellor at the time, was asked what he thought about his party saying Scotland would be poorer with independence. He laughed and said Scots were smart enough to work out the truth for themselves if they wanted to. I gained the impression he believed it was our fault for being dumb enough to believe their pish. A rare candid moment of unionism.

    It astonishes me that in this day and age the penny has yet to drop with a majority of Scots.

    Link to some Healey stuff:

  48. Artyhetty says:

    You can watch some interesting films on all things Scotland related on the National Library of Scotland website, ie, movingimagenls. Put in a search for the year, decade, then genre, ie industrial. There’s a few on oil available, but some of the more important ones are not available to watch online.

    ‘Ahead od schedule’, 1974 is a good one. If you click on ‘related films’ under the film, you can see more of them. There’s two clips of ‘North Sea Oil’, STV, 1971, though weirdly these are loading very slowly on my fastest computer and fibre broadband! You can buy the whole film ‘onsite’.

  49. They raped Scotland throughout the Union and continue to do so.
    The National will fold, and the merged Daily and Sunday Herald Britland will ‘downsize and rightsize’ and any staffer who has a sniff of pro Independence about them, since Kevin McKenna asserts that there are loads of Self Determined journos and broadcasters in the Brit Nat propaganda Units’ midst, will be culled, like the wee white fluffy bunnies on the grouse moor estates which are hindering the posh English folk coming up here to slaughter wee innocent chookie birdies for sadistic fun.

    BBC Scotland’s 180 seconds of News Where You are during the 3 1/4 hours of English indoctrination broadcast into Scottish Breakfast kitchens this morning reverted to type. Scotland is shite, and here is today’s propaganda blast from the Stockade on Pacific Quay.

    Headliner was Dr Grant Baxter, ‘Royal College of Radiologists’ warning us all to be very afraid if we were in a car accident or developed sepsis up there in Grouse Moor land because of a chronic shortage of radiologists. The BBC presenter added that the Scottish Government promised 50 new radiologists over the next 3 years. See what they did there? Shortage of Radiologists; SNP BAD’s fault.
    Only, Dr Grant Baxter is the retiring editor of the Profession’s in House Magazine ‘Clinical Radiology’. He is going out with a bang on September 11th.
    The Royal (they got their wee vellum calligraphy Charter from the monarch) College of Radiologists is a UK ‘Charity’, Baxter being their Scottish mouthpiece, who are responsible for the recruitment and training, and presumably retention of, Radiologists.
    It’s their job to make sure we don’t run out of radiologists, not Nicola Sturgeon’s; she’s too busy hauling away Tom Gordon’s (Scoop of the Herald) over flowing rat infested skip from Govanhill.

    It’s not as if the ‘Royal’ College(?) of Radiologists were taken by surprise by the shortage of Radiologists.

    Dr Baxter’s own trade paper warned of shortages in 2015, and it can only be assumed they did nothing in 3 years to instigate a Recruitment and Retention Programme then.

    But it all comes out as SNP BAD in 40 seconds of BBC Breakfast toss.

    In the remaining 2 mins and 20 secs they managed to cram in even more proof that Scotland really is the shittiest country on the planet:
    a shortage of midwives leading to the closure of a Midwife Unit, Shelter claims that 1/3 of Scots’ homes do not reach acceptable standards of habitation, although the Scot Government asserts that 98% of homes meet standards, and Andy Murray got cuffed at tennis.
    Oh yes, and disease ridden white fluffy bunnies are playing havoc with Lord Chinless of Chiswick’s Shooting Party Kill Lust up in Aberdeenshire.
    The BBC and Brit Nat Blue Red and Yellow Tories lie to Scotland, and suck our wealth South, as Scots children starve and their parents wonder where the rent is going to come from while Jackson and Murdo sip bloody Marys at poolside in Israel.
    I cannot be in the same room with any of them these days.

    If you want to be English, with SE English Dog Eat Dog values, fuck off to England, and take that Parcel of Rogues with you.
    Rant over.

  50. Clootie says:

    Local/regional reporters are subsidised by the BBC
    The BBC is paid for by the public. However it is “directed” by Westminster…the state controls the state broadcaster.
    …just another example of people paying for propaganda directed at themselves

    How does a system survives when it has such blatant bias?

    In the meantime do not buy the Herald,Sunday Herald, Scotsman, Daily Record, Daily Mail, P&J etc, etc, etc

  51. Robert Peffers says:

    Want to know just how petty and desperate the BBC is?

    Here’s a wee indication for you. There has been an absolutely Earth-shattering technical breakthrough made in electric battery technology by a team at the University of Glasgow.

    Now the BBC’s Ceefax text service has a UK news section, a Science section and a Technology section.

    Now this breakthrough is startling because it is a liquid battery and it can be charged up in seconds by filling it up at a pump on, for example on a garage forecourt just like petrol or Diesel.

    It is based upon a liquid form of, “Exotic”, rust. It makes electric cars just as mobile as fossil fuelled vehicles. They could drive into the filling station and fill up and not as with traditional batteries having to plug-in and wait hours to recharge.

    So why is it only being reported as Local Scotland mews and nothing in either the UK wide News, Science and Technology sections?

    Here we go again, Scotland leads the World and they steal the credit, the technology and/or the manufacturing. Just as they did with Carbon Capture lead that Scotland had developed.

    I commented yesterday that they were terrified of losing Scotland and really didn’t hate us. That was the real reason they go to such lengths to hold onto us, fear of what they would become without us and next day, and right on cue, comes this example of attempting to suppress anything good about Scotland,

    This on the same news reports that highlight there is a shortage of radiologists and the usual attacks upon the Health Services, Education, or anything else to do Scotland, down.

  52. Gary says:

    Leaving ONE daily newspaper to represent the beliefs of 45% of the population??

    The tail continues to wag the dog.

    Reminds me of the current Labour Party, the members support Corbyn, but the PLP hate him and want to oust him. Their continued smear campaign will undoubtedly result in him not lasting beyond the next election.

    Those IN power want to retain it, democracy is an illusion…

  53. gus1940 says:

    One of the Torygraph’s resident swivel-eyed loonies has produced an article claiming that Brexit is similar to The English Reformation and argues that as England survived the Reformation all will be well when Brexit strikes.

  54. Artyhetty says:

    Re;Robert Peffers@1,35


    Yep looked for this online, it’s not on or sciencenews yet, but thanks, just tweeted them this from a site called ‘energy live news’. Very interesting thanks for the news on this.

    Seeing ‘Brit’ and ‘Britain’ everywhere on commercial vehicles, in shops, it’s Britmania and it’s sickening, because it’s undermining Scotland’s idendity at best, removing anything Scotland related from public view, at worst. Unless it’s bad news of course.

  55. Another Union Dividend says:

    We don’t want Pravda type papers supporting Independence as any flaws in arguments have to be challenged constructively.

    However if every Wings reader, or even one in ten of the monthly visitors, were to buyt The National each day then its future would be secured. Use it or lose it.

    Meanwhile a must read is Richard Murphy’s blog on UK tax mess.

    Something to note when GERS figures comes out next week.

    Also keep in mind oil revenues vis a vis Norway

  56. Cuilean says:


  57. Cuilean says:

    It is urgent that everyone who does not want to return to the dark days of no pro indy Scots paper to start buying ‘The National’ whether you agree with everything single word in it or not!

    Buy 2 copies a day!

    It must not be allowed to die, as it will be vitally needed, come Indyref2, unless the plug is pulled on it before then, on the excuse no-one bought it.

  58. Jack Murphy says:

    Re the Sunday Herald and Herald merging journalists,here’s the story:


  59. Liz g says:

    Artyhetty @ 2.01
    Well…. Jist a wee observation …. tae cheer ye up
    Might mean something.. Might no??
    Was in Asda (I know,don’t judge me) late on last night buying Lamb chops.There were loads of packets with the Butcher’s Apron,noo that’s no my flag, so I won’t put it in my bag!
    Anyhoo, eventually found one with nae flag… The really curious thing was it was exactly the same packaging expect for a flag.It was also the only one left sooo…
    I’m wondering if they are testing to see if the Jack is indeed having a negative impact on sales?
    Mibbi the “Keep Scotland the Brand” is working

  60. I have said it before And I say it again they are only doing what they are allowed to do because no one in power in Scotland is. Challenging them demonstrations by the ordinary people are all very well but they just ignore them we need the SNP government to take them to court for all their lies and mis reporting . And sue them because until they do they will just carry on as before only those in power can put a stop to this so for goodness sake do something the SNP ship is sailing towards the rocks on this

  61. jfngw says:

    At least it is now out in the open, the Herald will be using government funded journalists for its reporting. I’m sure Mr Leask will not spot any parallels with this and his obsession with Kremlin funded material.

    @Robert Peffers

    Why oh why would the BBC report on something scientifically positive happening in Scotland when there is SNHS bad story that they hope can be tied to the SNP to lead their news programme.

    I’ve also spotted the BBC like to credit people as being ‘experts’ in a story they want to report. It is not often clear what expertise this person actually possesses, I can only hope it is better than people who often claim to be ‘historians’ but don’t actually have any actual qualifications in this field. Spotted someone on a programmee labelled a ‘crime expert’, this could just mean they have read half a dozen Miss Marple books.

  62. starlaw says:

    liz g 2;37

    I Asda Scotland the brand seems to be working especially in the soft fruit dept. Every body keep it up, I buy frozen Chicken now as all Asda’s have the fleg on them

  63. Dan Huil says:

    No sympathy for either Herald. Keep boycotting britnat media. Buy the National and give the bbc licence fee money to pro-indy websites.

  64. Danny says:

    Robert Peffers 1.35pm

    Following on from your post Robert, there was a documentary on a few days ago about Scottish inventors and in the end they all had a common theme running right through them.

    They were ALL hijacked and taken to London and given jobs in their respective fields. They all worked for the Royal College of this or the Royal Society for that. Every one of them based in London and funded by the UK Government.

    This was so the world would see that London was the centre of excellence in all fields of Science or Medicine or Engineering.

    Just another example of London taking all the credit for any new world changing findings and Scotland being seen as some insignificant backwater.

  65. Itake it my post from this morning was either libellous or got ‘lost’ in the ether.
    We live in dark days.

  66. Thepnr says:

    Very supportive article in The Canary website for a 2nd Independence referendum in Scotland, nothing new there for us but getting the message to a wider audience all the same.

    I welcome their support and would hope more people in England could be persuaded of the reasons why we must have a 2nd Referendum.

  67. Marie Clark says:

    No sympathy from me for the Herald and Sunday Herald. Bought the Herald for years and always enjoyed it, then came along one Magnus Gardham, set the paper on a slippery slope. Stopped buying it before Indyref. Bought the Sunday Herald from the first edition, then the editor left. Neil Mackay was a good investigative journalist, but kind of lost the way. That picture in the Sunday Herald in May after the big march was a major mistake. I reckon they ken that noo, but, compounded the mistake by setting about the independence supporters big time. It’s all very well to come out fighting, but you were aiming at the wrong target. Then to make matters a hundred times worse, the put Angela Haggerty in charge, oh my. When in a hole boys, you really should stop digging.

    I had stopped buying the Sunday Herald a while before all that happened, just did not like the way things were being reported. It was supposed to be independence supporting, but Tom Gordon and Paul Hutcheon only gave us SNP Bad and Union Good. I don’t want a mouthpiece for SNP or independence, but like many people I suspect, would like a bit of fairness and neutral reporting. I’m a big girl, I am perfectly able to make my own mind up about things.

    I reckon both papers will disappear into the mists of time, and good riddence. Haven’t paid the BBC Tax since September 2014 either.

  68. Liz g says:

    Blair Patterson @ 2.42
    Dae ye mibbi want tae try sayin it somewhere else Blair..

  69. Capella says:

    OT or perrhaps not.

    WikiLeaks Exposes How Council on Foreign Relations Controls Most All Mainstream Media. Some UK in there too. Don’t see Newsquest though.

    Link form a comment on Craig Murray’s site. He hasn’t posted since 30th July so I hope all is well.

  70. Street Andrew says:

    I don’t think I could convincingly feign surprise at these revelations.

    Unionist bias is total and transparent.

  71. Robert Peffers says:

    @Another Union Dividend says: 14 August, 2018 at 2:06 pm:

    Thanks for the links, Another Union Dividend.

    By the Way, IndyCar Gordon Ross had an item yesterday on the constitution and an idea about how to make sure big international companies paid their dues to an Independent Scotland.

    He speculated that instead of taxing them as now that they supply free fossil fuels to the pumps and free gas to homes and not be otherwise taxed.

    I thought to myself, it’ll never work and I had an idea why it wouldn’t work.

    Anyhow, this morning I read, right on cue, that in real life, just the very reason why I had thought Gordon’s scheme was doomed to fail, (unfortunately so, for if it worked it would have been great).

    The news item was that Venezuela’s Maduro was to curb cheap fuel for Venezuelans to stop smugglers cheating the country out of billions of Dollars.

    He stated that petrol had to be sold at an international price to prevent smuggling to Colombia and the Caribbean.

    I had immediately though to myself on watching Gordon’s newscast that it would be a great idea for Scots directly and … … … the Welsh, Irish, Northern Irish and the English indirectly as well.

    Anyway, my laptop went Beep! Beep! and informed me Gordon has a new newscast on YouTube – so I’ll awa an hae a keek at it the noo.

  72. Referendum1707 says:

    Apart from the National I wouldn’t touch any other “news”papers with an actual bargepole, nor do I ever watch any bbc/stv/c4/c5 news or current affairs programmes so I was unaware of the merger between SH and Herald.

    So I don’t know the whys or the wherefores, especially bearing in mind that they threw away what support they had from indy supporters and it’s not a paper that would particularly appeal to britnats either so on the face of it at least it looks pretty much like the SH has collapsed and they just don’t want to say so, just trying to salvage something from it by integrating what’s left of it with the Herald.

    Who knows, or cares?

    Please please please support this fundraiser

  73. Frank says:

    ” Blair Patterson and others.
    I am reminded of Robert Bruce and his brother Edward.

    Edward a brave warrior but did not have his brother’s cunning. He was always seeking direct confrontation with the forces of Edward 1st of England despite the huge advantage the English had in numbers and especially in cavalry. Robert favoured what we would now call guerrilla tactics.

    Robert was less than pleased when Edward struck a deal with the English commander of Stirling Castle, Sir Philip Moubry which led to the set battle of Bannockburn and it was only the tactics of brother Robert which literally saved the day.

    Now why did I think of that?

  74. John says:

    UK = Dirty stinking enemy state filth.

  75. Cactus says:

    Talkin’ about union flaggery on yer fruit n veg n like… it’s really really hard to find ANY non-uj flags in the plant section… take Aldi’s for eg, they do the same as the rest of em. Their articulated delivery lorries are normally Britified up too.

    (Sayin’ that, they do also do a good range of local Scottish food with local businesses.)

    When one buys a living coriander and basil, aye has now taken to just taking hold and RIPPING the uj cellophane flag off in store man. (barcode not on it man.)

    AND it feels really really good!

    New idea… take scissors. 😉

    To better days indeed.

  76. Proud Cybernat says:

    England conquered the world with the sword.

    They conquered Scotland with the pen.

    I’m not sure how I feel about that.

  77. sandy says:

    Liz @ 4.11pm.

    How long did it take you to interpret Blair Paterson’s post. Don’t think he paid much attention to punctuation lessons.

  78. msean says:

    …and they’re still helping tories against Scottish interests. What kind of democracy is it when the two overpowering parties by size have been working together since the 1970s,in whose interests is that?

    That’s not democracy. It looks like we have been living in a sort of one party state situation for decades.

  79. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 15:43,

    It’s good that there are at least some people in England now who are connecting the two referendums, recognising that both were “won” by dissimulation and outright lying in industrial quantities, and promoted by stooges who we have reason to suspect may have been at least partly funded by black money.

    And The Canary is saying what we have known well since 2014, that “wins” like those are not legitimate, and will unravel.

    Marie Clark @ 16:03,

    You are quite right, all we really want are news sources which play it straight, so that any eventual outcome can truly be accepted by all sides to be fair, whatever the result.

    I can’t entirely agree about the demise of Scottish papers, though, very understandable as the feeling of antipathy to them is. We need all the native sources we can get, we just need them to maintain a high standard of professional integrity.

    How shameful is it, according to The Guardian article referenced by Stu, that the “Scottish” edition of The Times (of London) now outstrips The Scotsman on its own home turf? (High time for a change there, indeed.)

    I’m thinking back to a posting by Derick fae Yell @ 11:26, and pondering about funding. I suspect it may be that advertising money is mainly only available for papers that actively promote the Union, despite the declining sales of such, and the difficulty for indy-supporting papers is that they just can’t get enough advertising to prosper.

    That’s another way in which BritNat money works. Even though it may be increasingly wasted. They are in effect everywhere sawing off the branch on which they are sitting.

    But in terms of vigorous, free and fair native media, we are all the losers.

  80. Tinto Chiel says:

    @Marie Clark: spot on.

    We must have been separated at birth 😛 .

  81. sandy says:


    Mirror has an article on line. English holidaymaker complains of too many Spanish holidaymakers in Benidorm hotel.
    Well, I never. That is what I call a WHINGE!
    Maybe we should really keep the English apart. They’re not very popular on the whole, worldwide, anyway, are they.
    Ye canna hide true History.

  82. Another Union Dividend says:

    Cracking response to Prof Dr Cllr Church Elder

    @WingsScotland 11.30 am

    Felt obliged to send this to The Scotsman this morning. Arthur just won’t stop digging himself into a hole because he’s an idiot, but newspapers are responsible for what they publish.

  83. CameronB Brodie says:

    Whitehall has a long history of colonial oppression, when it come to holding on to natural resources owned by others. Long-held social and institutional practices are hard to change, as they become ingrained into the psyche and culture of institutional practice. Just look at the Prime Minister expecting Scotland to support English culturalism and her ‘plans’ for Brexit, for example.

    Is Scotland really a colony of England, or is the “Right to Development” not an inalienable human right?

    Britain, Middle East Oil, and the Struggle to Save Sterling, 1944-1971


    Early in 1952, British Treasury Under-Secretary Martin Flett wrote: “There can be few things in Anglo/Dutch relations, whether commercial, strategic or political so important as the preservation of our dollar income from Shell.”1 The “Shell” to which Flett was referring was Royal Dutch-Shell, the major multinational oil firm controlled by British and Dutch interests. Why would the income from a petroleum company, in whatever currency, be of such vital importance to Britain’s relationship with any country? Did this imperative apply to Britain’s relations with other countries and other firms involved in the international oil industry? If so, what were the implications of such an imperative for British foreign policy? This dissertation considers these questions and others in the context of the British government’s interactions with both companies and countries involved in the production, transportation, and marketing of Middle East oil after World War II.

    In the aftermath of the Second World War, British officials still considered their country a first-class power, despite the overwhelming physical and economic devastation that the conflict wreaked upon it. After all, London continued to serve as the seat of an empire that stretched into all corners of the globe, and Britain’s currency, the pound sterling, still facilitated half of all international trade. As long as Britain could rely upon financial support from the United States, the world’s dominant power after the war, policymakers on both sides of the political spectrum saw no reason why it could not participate in international affairs as it had done previously. Although Britain reduced its commitments in some parts of the Empire soon after the hostilities ended, most notably in India and Palestine in 1947, it reinvigorated its commitments in others, including Africa, Southeast Asia, and the Middle East. Indeed, a combination of perceived economic advantage and a potent sense of pride and prestige would sustain Britain’s imperial will well into the 1960s, encompassing the political, military, and economic spheres.2 The last of these frames the issues under consideration in this dissertation….


    The Implementation of the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate in Palestine: problems of conquest and colonisation at the nadir of British Imperialism (1917–1936)

  84. winifred McCartney says:

    Marie Clark – here here exactly the same sentiments.

  85. Robert Peffers says:

    @Blair Paterson says: 14 August, 2018 at 2:42 pm:

    ” … I have said it before And I say it again they are only doing what they are allowed to do because no one in power in Scotland is. Challenging them demonstrations by the ordinary people are all very well but they just ignore them we need the SNP government to take them to court for all their lies and mis reporting.”

    I have no doubt you will indeed say it again and again Blair, you have form. The question is why do you keep posting anti-Nicola Sturgeon, anti-SG and anti-SNP pish so frequently?

    This latest example is typical of your, not so, hidden agenda. You are attempting, as usual, to shift the blame from the real culprits onto Nicola Sturgeon, The SG and the SNP – as usual.

    However this time the exposure of that blame-shifting is very neatly hit on the head by events – that fortunately, broke today.

    I had already composed a detailed reply to your disgraceful attempts to shift the blame from the Britnats onto Nicola Sturgeon, the SG and SNP but it decided to vanish while I was still typing it – but here’s the shorter version.

    Today Gordon Ross IndyCar broadcast on YouTube has great news and it shows you are blethering utter anti-SNP pish as usual.

    Here is a cite:-

    It shows that far from sitting on their hands doing nothing, (besides the day job that is), the SG have been getting ready for, (in my opinion), Indyref 2.

    Which if that is so could explain why the SG were not being panicked into hasty rash actions for this is a very significant move on the way to another, and un-cheatable, referendum and/or election. The result of these trials will assure any further referendums and elections return a correct result.

  86. thomas says:

    @proud cybernat 5.01pm

    They conquered scotland wae the pen?

    No sure about that pal , they conquered scotland wae the pound.

    Rabbie Burns even wrote a famous poem about it…

    “Fareweel to a’ our Scottish fame,
    Fareweel our ancient glory;
    Fareweel ev’n to the Scottish name,
    Sae fam’d in martial story.
    Now Sark rins over Solway sands,
    An’ Tweed rins to the ocean,
    To mark where England’s province stands-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

    What force or guile could not subdue,
    Thro’ many warlike ages,
    Is wrought now by a coward few,
    For hireling ("Tractor" - Ed)’s wages.
    The English stell we could disdain,
    Secure in valour’s station;
    But English gold has been our bane-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

    O would, or I had seen the day
    That Treason thus could sell us,
    My auld grey head had lien in clay,
    Wi’ Bruce and loyal Wallace!
    But pith and power, till my last hour,
    I’ll mak this declaration;
    We’re bought and sold for English gold-
    Such a parcel of rogues in a nation! “

  87. vagabondo says:

    The Better Together propaganda machine has made much of “reminding” us how the SNP MPs refusal to back Labour’s betrayal of the Scottish people “let Thatcher’s Tories into government. They do this in the full knowledge that the Callaghan government was using public resources (including Bernard Ingham’s salary) to promote the election of Scottish Conservatives where they faced Scottish National opposition.

  88. Thepnr says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland

    The Alf Young mentioned in the Herald article above is till around and writes occasionally for The Times. From second story above.

    Included in the Kew dossier is information showing that Alf Young, the research officer at Labour’s headquarters in Glasgow and now a journalist with The Herald, asked Dickson Mabon, then an energy minister and Greenock MP, to get his officials to provide “return ammunition” against SNP propaganda about oil revenues.

    “I wonder if you could get an analysis of it done in your department,” Mr Young wrote on 14th October 1976. “Some return ammunition would be of use to me.”

    He rose to be deputy editor at the Herald before leaving and is now also a visiting professor at the International Public Policy Institute based at Strathclyde University.

    I doubt when you read the above that anyone would be surprised to learn that most of the stuff he writes even now in the Times could be prefixed with SNP Baddd!

  89. CameronB Brodie says:

    Lord Digby Jones@Digbylj

    George Orwell said some 80 years ago that “England is the only great Country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality”. When I look at what the Establishment Elite & the Remainers are trying to do to the UK I think his definition can be widened!

    As I said, the enobled one appears to be a bit of a racist. I’ll accept a spectacular chauvinistic, English nationalist Tory. The result is the same (see Brexit for an example of cultural prejudice/racism in action). Scotland’s fututure should not be determined by the latent ‘degenerationist’ thought that is central to contemporary English/British Nationalism.

    N.B Scots are an ethnic minority within the UK and independence supporters, social deviants, mk.

    Patriotism and Populism

    For many, the Brexit vote in June 2016 was an act of patriotism. Defending the nation against the bureaucrats in Brussels and ‘taking back control’ of Britain in order to tackle the issues of immigration and – by default -unemployment.

    Just a couple of weeks before the polls opened, Ipsos Mori Political Monitor showed that immigration ranked as the single biggest issue which would affect how the public voted in the referendum.

    Over half of the general public (55%) said that UK Government should have total control over immigration, even if it meant leaving the EU, compared to the 33% who felt the benefits of remaining the EU outweighed the Government’s control over immigration (Ipsos MORI 2016).

    Patriotism, the love for the nation, is often understood as something inherently positive. How can love be anything else? But critical thinkers such as Sara Ahmed (2004) remind us that patriotism is an ambiguous feeling: it entails a turning towards the nation, to your imagined community, to your kind, but it also requires a turning away from others. Moreover, it means defending the nation against immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers, all those, whose proximity threatens not only to take something away from the nation (jobs, security, wealth), but to take it over and destroy its future.

    This kind of talk dominated public discussions before and after the Brexit vote. Alt-right populist Aaron Banks, who funded UKIP’s Brexit campaign with more than £7m, is one such example. Shortly after Westminster attack he tweeted: “We have a huge Islamic problem courtesy of mass immigration (…) we have communities who hate our country and way of life’ (Harris 2017).

    A New Vote On Brexit Resurfaces Racial Anxieties Among Black Brits

    ….On Tuesday British Prime Minister Theresa May announced plans to hold a snap general election on June 8. Following Britain’s decision last summer to exit the European Union she said that, “Britain needed certainty, stability and strong leadership” ahead Britain of settling its divorce from the EU. This surprise news came as a shock to the political establishment in London. Last year May ruled out holding an election before 2020, but she has now reversed course.

    May’s about face has caused political and public opinion waves across Britain, especially because her announcement comes mere weeks after the government set in motion the official process to leave the European Union, known as Brexit. May has said this was a historic moment for Britain, one that the country would not be turning back from.

    A sizable number of black Brits might see the new vote as a second chance to take a stand against a future they did not vote for in the first place. In total, 73 percent of black Brits voted for Britain to remain in the EU, as did 67 percent of Asian voters. Meanwhile, 53 percent of whites voted for Britain to leave the EU….

    It’s not about security, it’s about racism: counter-terror strategies, civilizing processes and the post-race fiction


    Using a range of international examples, this article examines the ways in which members of the black and minority ethnic population continue to be viewed as problematic and deviant, challenging the claim that we are now living in a post-race state. The article considers how race and racism are still in reality, used to socially order society—and specifically criminalize those black and minority ethnic groups of (real or perceived) Muslim background—what I call “brown bodies”. Turning its focus to the United Kingdom, although offering an analysis applicable to other countries with similar racialized conditions, the article discusses how sub-measures under current counter-terror discourse not only serve to control and regulate Muslim populations, but more so, the civilizing undertone of its Western (or, British) values and national security narrative continue to normalize and perpetuate anti-Muslim sentiment and construct Muslims as “suspect” communities at every possible opportunity. This process draws on a “post-colonial fantasy” and re-uses established practices of “race-consumption” to control brown bodies. This ensures that anti-Muslim racism remains a key feature of contemporary British society. The article ends noting its support for that body of literature that critiques the claim that we are now living in a post-race state. This article is published as part of a collection on racism in counter-terrorism and surveillance discourse.

  90. CameronB Brodie says:

    Oops. Sorry, I thought I was in OT.

  91. Dan Huil says:

    It was that slimy britnat James VI who boasted he could rule Scotland with a stroke of the pen.

  92. galamcennalath says:

    If a group, party, or individual cheat to win a vote then the result should be declared null and void.

    I’m all for that! The UK presently has a system where cheating is, at most, deal with by issuing paltry fines. The punishment should be a deterrent instead.

    Cancel the result and ban the offender from rerunning. Simple and just.

    So ….

    ” British expats in EU launch Brexit legal challenge … Group says leave campaign broke electoral law, making 2016 vote unconstitutional “

    ” British expatriates have launched a fresh legal challenge against the 2016 referendum, arguing that the result has been invalidated by the Electoral Commission’s ruling on leave campaign spending. …… means that the referendum to leave the EU was not a lawful, fair or free vote. “

    I wish them every success …. but alas, doubt it will achieve what the aim for.

  93. Cubby says:

    BBC Reporting Scotland tonight. Bloody relentless negativity. Sick of these merchants of doom.

    Why not tell the truth that it is all down to the UK government – yes the Britnat Tories- who created this unnecessary Brexit to try and keep the Tory party together. No radiologists (red alert – whatever that means) no staff for hotels. No mention that the Scottish gov has no control over immigration as EU nationals continued to leave the Uk.

    Doom and gloom all the time – no wonder suicide rates are rising. Even the highland hares are being killed off. Some groups want hare culling banned entirely. I would be happy if the Scottish media was culled – starting with BBC reporting Scotland.

    No mention of where Truthless Davidson is? No mention of Tory dark money. Tories allowed to run and hide.

    Jackie Bird turns my stomach – a mouthpiece for Britnat propaganda. BBC Scotland just another London controlled organisation masquerading as Scottish. That’s Reporting Scotland.

  94. Dr Jim says:

    Failing newspapers in Scotland are such now that on a daily basis they are losing money hand over fist but a wee burdy has told me that the BBC are stepping in to bail these failing newspapers out by supplying *journalists* and paying for them presumably on some sort of contracted basis

    Now if that information is in any way correct it means that the Scottish taxpayer whether he/she reads these failing newspapers or not is subsidising material that we don’t buy nor want nor need yet we are forced to pay for, Hmm?

    There must be a more pressing reason as to why the UK government using Scottish taxpayers money is prepared to use that money which would normally be directed to the BBC to be redirected in this way given that when RBS which was a publicly owned company decided to close its branches the Prime Minister told us she couldn’t interfere in a commercial decision taken by that bank yet she stays silent on taxpayers money being given by a *public broadcaster* to private newspaper corporations as bail out funding to continue trying to sell products that Scotland clearly doesn’t want

    Why then is she using the BBC to prevent the demise of these newspapers? Eh is it for the benefit of pensioners who can’t go online and do their internet reading? Is it perhaps concern for Scottish jobs being lost in the event of closures? Is it our childrens education she’s concerned with? What on earth could this be about?

    No postcards please

  95. Phil says:

    Macart at 1:00pm

    Mention of Mr Bell. Those were days of Radio Scotland being a fine example of on-air journalism. Recall Colin Bell and his two acolytes: one Bateman and one Riddoch. They matured, I assume, to be disliked by all yoon media outlets but, their quality is so far above most BBC staffers they cannot be ignored.

  96. Robert Peffers says:

    @msean says: 14 August, 2018 at 5:11 pm:

    ” … when the two overpowering parties by size have been working together since the 1970s,in whose interests is that?
    That’s not democracy. It looks like we have been living in a sort of one party state situation for decades.”

    If you studied the history of Westminster since ever and before there was a Westminster you would know that even in Roman Britain, (and that never really included the bit of Britain that became Scotland), you would know that these has been an, “Establishment”, in the south east corner of Britain since Roman times and the only written history we have is from Roman times onwards.

    Now reading the Roman recorded history it soon becomes clear that there are several different versions and a deeper study soon shows why. Roman Britain was a stepping stone to getting to be the head honcho in Rome.

    It was a bit like how the current political parties find a nice safe seat for a favoured candidate to cut their teeth in Parliament. Note how many Roman Emperors, including Julius Caesar himself served were in charge in Britain before becoming Emperor back in Rome.

    Thus much Roman history depends upon the political faction the author was part of. It was also the Romans who first set up a system of taxation and a customs and excise system centred on the South East of Britain. This custom & Excise was the way they ran the entire Roman Empire. Londinium was a main Roman port and some historians maintain that both the Gask Road & ridge and the Antonine wall in North Britain were not to keep out the North Britons, (who had enough natural resources in the North as the needed), but to prevent smuggling that was obviously affecting the tax take of Customs & Excise.

    From Roman times until now, there has been a succession of Germanic elites running Britain from the south east corner. First the Anglo Saxons right up to the Normans, (it’s short for Norsemen), and sitting on the Throne today is a Germanic Monarchy and we still have hereditary peers descendants of the Norman aristocracy sitting in the House of Lords.

    There has always been an Establishment in that South East corner and no matter what they called the parties in Parliament they have always dropped all pretences of being different parties when the Kingdom was under threat.

    Both World Wars immediately saw a coalition War Cabinet put in place. The party system has always been a con trick.

  97. Shinty says:

    Cubby – I don’t watch BBC, but share your anger. Mr Shinty still watches the state propaganda channel, but will always be a yesser.
    No matter how much shite they pour out. So please, take some comfort in that (even although he’s only one vote, there must be others who watch it but pay no heed)

  98. @Dr Jim

    have mentioned this a few times on Wings,

    The State,laundered through the BBC, is giving £100,000,000 to the owners of major newspapers,

    the money is to fund Local Democracy Reporters throughout the UK funded by the State but run by MSM,

    there are over 500 news sources that have signed up to be able to access the output of these State paid Local Democracy Reporters,

    the whole thing stinks,

    like with the White Helmets this is The UK State infiltrating organisations and corrupting them to The State`s own nefarious ends.

  99. Capella says:

    Facebook has now deleted Telesur’s Facebook page without explanation. Telesur is a South American news broadcaster.

    It’s also telling that when Facebook decided it did need to do something to deal with what is labelled ‘fake news’ it partnered up with the Digital Forensic Lab, an offshoot of the Atlantic Council, a neo-liberal think tank set up in 1961 to promote Western ideology around the world. In more simple terms, it is NATO’s lobbying organization and it goes about its work very aggressively.

  100. One_Scot says:

    Well said Cubby.

  101. stu mac says:

    Shinty says:
    14 August, 2018 at 8:10 pm
    Mr Shinty still watches the state propaganda channel, but will always be a yesser. No matter how much shite they pour out.

    I too still watch some BBC TV (and other channels – not doubt will be attacked for this) but I never watch the news or news-like programs. Used to watch Channel 4 news but it has declined too. I came to realise most MSM TV news was bordering on propaganda at times long before IndyREf 2014.

    Anyway my point is many people may still watch BBC and other TV but lots of them don’t bother with the news. This may often just be because they’re not interested but it does mean that the news media isn’t reaching as many people as it may think it is.

  102. yesindyref2 says:

    Another snippet from that “The Gentleperson’s Guide To Forum Spies”


    ALWAYS assume that you are under surveillance.

    At this point, if you are NOT under surveillance, you are not a very good activist!

    So that’s us tellt.

  103. ronnie anderson says:

    Mr Shinty Ah widnae worry aboot it the Big BBC Corneto van canae detect whether your watching TV or no .

  104. Artyhetty says:

    I spotted this the other day.

    What is this about anyone? British Council Scotland? As far as i know, no such organisation exists.

  105. yesindyref2 says:

    This is vague memory from years ago, and a bit of speculation, so don’t risk your fines on it. Years ago when you had your old steam radio and your valve TV, any receiver also transmits or retransmits what you receive, and it does it in a bit fuzzy fashion, with harmonics. TV detector vans could tell whether it was the left or right hand 2nd or 3rd floor flat in a tenement and where in the room the TV was. Then equipment improved and you got less retransmission, but detector kit improved as well.

    Then you get wireless regulations which limit the amount any electrical equipment trnasmits on radio frequencies, as well as you get your actual transistor not a steam valve.

    Then the transmission bands tighten up so less scatter can be allowed so the regulations get tightened again and there’s less scatter and retransmission. So then more people can transmit more radio stations and TV stations, and you get big chunky cell phones given their bands. And it all gets more accurate and tighter and narrower, and retransmission, specially with harmonics, is a BAD THING.

    That’s analogue, and I think by definition digital is even tighter. Hence why with the likes of DAB you either get the station – or you don’t, you don’t get it going all hissy fit on you, though partly down to the tuners themselves.

    So my feeling is that digital reception can not be located accurately and perhaps even detected at all short of actually seeing the receiver in operation in someone’s living room, but hey, I could be way way wrong!

  106. schrodingers cat says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    At this point, if you are NOT under surveillance, you are not a very good activist!”

    my name is legion for i am many 🙂

  107. Shinty says:

    Ronnie – the Big BBC Corneto van will never put a foot on my door.

    I’ve trained ma dug tae sort oot the friens and braggarts.

  108. Breeks says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    14 August, 2018 at 9:23 pm
    This is vague memory from years ago, and a bit of speculation, so don’t risk your fines on it. Years ago when you had your old steam radio and your valve TV, any receiver also transmits or retransmits what you receive, and it does it in a bit fuzzy fashion, with harmonics. TV detector vans could tell whether it was the left or right hand 2nd or 3rd floor flat in a tenement and where in the room the TV was. Then equipment improved and you got less retransmission, but detector kit improved as well….

    I don’t believe TV detector vans ever had anything more than a coat hanger in the roof. You don’t need a detector van to cross check Licence Holders with Addressess on the Electoral Roll and play the percentages that most homes would have a TV. It’s not rocket science, but hey, why not pretend it is rocket science, put the fear of god into the heretics that their sins will be detected by spooky technological wizardry like the Nazi’s using radio direction finders to track down spies broadcasting on illegal transmitters?

    BBC has been manipulating the way people think from the beginning, using peoples’ guilt and fear of “arrest” to ensure compliance. They are masters of mind control. It’s their forte.

    The myths about detecting where a TV was, was merely “cover” to explain away the error if their magic TV Detector vans picked up a TV in a house without a licence that didn’t actually have a TV. “Oh don’t worry Mrs Miggins, our “magic detector van” must have been picking up the TV set next door, or upstairs…”

    Oh yeah, of course it did… honest!

    It’s all total bullshit.

  109. Naina Tal says:

    Yesindyref2: My own belief (during a lifetime of telecoms engineering) is that the detector vans were nothing other than an old Bedford van with an iron bedstead bolted to the roof. The so called officers went equipped with addresses with no licence and badgered and threatened the occupants with jail etc.

    Over many years without television I had one visit. No licence at the address you see. Kept them busy for months with frivolous letters about whether I need a licence for my PC monitor, then next one if I need one for a video recorder etc. etc. Kept it going for months. They gave up answering. I never heard from them again. That was 30 years ago.

  110. Robert Peffers says:

    @Artyhetty says: 14 August, 2018 at 9:11 pm:

    ” … What is this about anyone? British Council Scotland? As far as i know, no such organisation exists.”

    Just noticed your query. Artyhetty, In case no one else has replied I expect it is this organisation:-

    I didn’t go to the site as I’m doing something else just now but I have a vague memory they have something to do with the festivals and I had a wee mental nudge about the Edinburgh Festival and a row about it being run by English people but I cannot tie the notion down further.

    Anyway a quick Google Advanced Search:-

    threw up quite a few references but I had no time to check them out.

  111. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    May I be allowed to repeat myself. I flagged up the Sunday Herald’s betrayal of the independence cause many months ago (but the removal of Tom Gordon from it allowed me a glimmer of hope that it had realised it was destroying itself but that hope didn’t last). Let it rot.

    I am however a newspaper anorak and can be caught daily reading newspapers in supermarkets and libraries and even occasionally buying several.

    The Herald is reduced to tabloid standard journalism in a big spread has virtually no serious journalism talent in it. Changed days indeed.

    The Scotsman only sells as many copies now as lots of local newspapers and that is exactly what it deserves.

    The Sun says nice things about the SNP one day and horrible things about it the next. They must think their readers are half wits. I couldn’t possibly comment.

    The evil Mail and the infantile Express are unashamedly intolerant anti Scottish rags. Only old folk and English immigrants read them in Scotland.

    The Star and the Sport are not absorbent enough in my opinion for their only useful deployment.

    The Daily Record gives the SNP lots of very constructive coverage, nearly every day and has put the boot into Labour regularly,though it does some supportive Labour stuff as well.
    I’m sure lots of people don’t believe me but this is a fact.

    As I have said on several occasions recently keep an eye on the Record

  112. stewartb says:

    Artyhetty @ 9:11 pm

    You wrote: “What is this about anyone? British Council Scotland? As far as I know, no such organisation exists.”

    I always understood this was simply a branch of the British Council located in Scotland (Edinburgh). But as so often happens in such cases when one checks (and confirms this) there is more to discover.

    The British Council has ‘UK country advisory committees’ – but surprise, surprise there are only three: “We currently have UK country advisory committees in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.” Why not one for England? Well we all can guess why.

    And then there is this:

    “The Scotland Advisory Committee is one of three Country Advisory Committees — in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland — which contribute to the development of the British Council’s strategic objectives and corporate priorities within the relevant country. Its formation or disbandment is the responsibility of the Board of Trustees.

    The Scotland Advisory Committee is a forum for advice and has no decision making or executive powers. “


    So no advisory committee for England! And no decision making or executive powers available in Scotland. Could it be that the British Council operates as the English Council with a few add ons – not as a Council fully representing four countries? Presumably England doesn’t need an advisory committee when it has it all! A recurring feature of this precious Union!

  113. jfngw says:

    Newsnight now spent 17 minutes attacking Corbyn. Seems they have a pincer movement. Newsnight has been tasked to destroy Corbyn, Rep Scots role is the SNP. It is now so blatant it is embarrassing.

    The establishment is on the move. The BBC was badly wounded by the wings take down, they are redoubling their efforts, it was to be expected.

  114. Rock says:

    Buy the fake “independence supporting” The National to keep its elder sisters The Herald and The Sunday Herald alive.

  115. Liz g says:

    Breeks @ 10.15
    I’ve always thought that they were a con too..
    We never see any old vans on display at for example,The Transport Museums or such!
    We never see them turn up in any “how we used to live” programme,nobody has been interviewed as an ex van driver, or any information about where the vans were going to go after the Digital switch over…. they just faded from public conversation didn’t they?
    The advertisements about them are never on the retro programmes like ” it was alright in the 70’s” and these vans were ment to be the guardian’s of the telly watching nation!
    Nah I’m not buying that they were ever anything other than faked propaganda..

  116. jfngw says:

    I believe the TV detector vans could pick up the RF from the local oscillators in the TV, I think it was the Intermediate Frequency oscillator. But these vans were pretty useless at detecting the exact location of these, not that directional. So if you lived in a large detached house then they could probably say it was, if you lived in a block of flats they could only tell that there were TV’s on. So most of the time they were just, as they say, chancing it.

    This doesn’t work with digital TV, doesn’t have the oscillators. Plus most flat screens give off so many high frequency parts I doubt they could detect anything useful. Although having a satellite dish outside the house and a Sky subscription may give them an inkling.

  117. Artyhetty says:

    O/T Sort of.

    If you value your blood pressure, or just general sanity, do not watch ‘NORTH SEA OIL’, 1971, a short clip about ‘Scotland’s boom in oil, at the nls moving image archive. I would love to know what they said in the rest of the film, the clip reveals so much about how Scotland was played with, like a rag doll. Tossed about, used, and thrown on the rubbish tip.

    If only you had wanted the oil, wanted the boom, wanted the money, wanted the wages, wanted the revenues, the jobs, Scotland. But no, you kept taking the drugs, happy to lie in the pits of poverty, laze around, while we English and everyone else tried to help you, tried to make you see the error of your ways.

    Wah ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!

    Poor wee, stupid Scotland, look at what you could have had.

    That’s what I take from the 10 min snippet about Scotland’s oil.

    Better let England and the American’s manage it all for you now, there you go, just sign here, here and here. Ha ha!

  118. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    My branch has decided to write to the SNP and ask why it no longer ends the annual conference with a rousing communal singing of Scots Wha Hae. This was the custom for half a century and for many people the highlight of the conference.

    Any thoughts?

  119. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    This is how conference should end


  120. yesindyref2 says:

    Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

    15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

  121. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    This should end the SNP conference

  122. yesindyref2 says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill
    I’d guess it’s a case of modernising the image, making it inclusive (forget proud English Edward’s army), and making it more relevant to being a party in Government, rather than a protest party. Makes some sense I guess, but ditching the past is not always a good way to embrace the future.

  123. Artyhetty says:



    Thanks Stewart, interesting. I am looking into it a bit more. The ‘Beyond Borders Scotland’ is interesting. They seem to have lots of lords and that sort on their advisory boards. Also, they seem to operate outwith Scotland, because if you look at their archive, not much has happened since between 2014-2016.

    Have a look at their ‘team’, and ‘Patrons’. All a bit out of date it seems.

    Still they have a platform via the festival in Edinburgh, right now.

    I just wondered where their funding comes from and what that means in terms of Scotland’s arts and cultural climate.

    I found their ad in an arts mag re Scotland.

  124. yesindyref2 says:

    I remember years ago you’d be in the pub and the word would go around that the detector van was going to be in town the next day. It could have been a deliberate leak, and the van just drove around looking for anxious people looking out their windows, gap in the curtains with a flickering light behind.

    Mmm, just realised I too am engaging in a bit of “Topic dilution” 🙂 I blame it on Ronnie.

  125. Karmanaut says:

    Sunday Herald announces they’re going to target a unionist audience. Because if you’re 1 of only 2 papers that are read by the independence supporting 50% of the population then obviously it makes shrewd business sense* to risk that and enter the fray of every-single-other-paper-but-one already catering for that market.

    Right. Fine. That’s yer plan. But then you (as, apparently, the first step in your cunning plan to enter the crowded unionist marketplace) DUMP your entire current readership by misrepresenting the biggest independence march in years.

    Some ego.

  126. Liz g says:

    jfngw @ 11.16
    Oh they might have had some equipment back then that would fit in a van and pick “something” up from somewhere near.
    But that’s not how they were portrayed!
    Yet we have no prosecutions that I’ve ever heard of, in which evidence from the detector vans were used?
    Is there even any legislation to confirm that this kind of evidence from these vans is usable in Court?
    The debate that produced any legislation for the vans (,which were surveillance equipment) in and on the general public should be in Hansard…. Shouldn’t it ?

  127. yesindyref2 says:

    I see what people mean about postings not appearing. My 11:24 pm posting is now between Dave’s 2 postings, but when I looked before both his were there but not mine. This happened on the Herald when they were upgrading their platform a few years back, and I’m guessing it’s two storage units (hard disks) to share the load and maybe anti-DDOS also, maybe in some RAID configuration but both serving web pages, not updating each other straight away. Something like that.

  128. yesindyref2 says:

    Bad news I’m afraid for those who think detector vans were a con, the Daily Mail and a UKIP MEP Gerard Batten, thinks so too, so it must be wrong.

  129. Dr Jim says:

    See when yer watchin the Telly

    Jackie Burd kin see ye richt intae yer livin room

    Its how they know

  130. yesindyref2 says:

    Quite an interesting article that in the Mail, it’s not all bad. For instance: “Although ‘enforcement officers’ have no official powers of entry, they are trained in either talking their way across the threshold, or tricking homeowners into confessing they have been watching TV illegally.” which Wingers have posted similar.

    Anyway off to bed said Zebedee. Boing! An early night for me.

  131. dakk says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill
    ‘Any thoughts?’

    Likely the ‘Wallace bled’ line left open the blood and soil angle for the British nationalists to snipe at.

    Whether SNP should bring it back or not I’m not sure,but it should be Scotland’s anthem long before FoS,or StB.

  132. Liz g says:

    Arttyheatty & Stewartb re Beyond Borders Scotland
    Keep digging to find out what they are actually for,this group sounds like those shady establishment outfits,that Britify Scotland for Westminster..

  133. Cubby says:

    Dave McEwan Hill 10.32pm

    Sorry but I will not be looking at the record or any of the other propaganda pamphlets. Nothing but contempt for the media in Scotland. This is not Scotlands media but England’s media sticking Scottish on the front page. “The Scotsman” – what a sick joke. Another countries propaganda to keep Scotland in its box. The BBC using tax payers money to keep them going. He who pays the piper calls the tune.

    Do not buy these rags they are bad for your health and bad for Scotlands future generations.

  134. Cactus says:

    Aye was watching some guest tv t’other day and may have found the long lost Scottishy Tory below, maybe you saw her too… tory-labour / labour-tory, they are one and the same thing, smelly jobbies.


  135. Cactus says:

    Dedication to better days:

    Ah well ah well ah, it is wiki-wiki Wednesday efter awe:

    Yes 2 Glasgow.

  136. Cubby says:

    Dr Jim@ 12.20am

    Great so that means the Jackie will have seen all the rude signs I made in her direction earlier today. Could she also hear me telling her to pissoff as well?

    By the way Ross Thomson is still a total Tory Bampot.

  137. Nana says:

    Westminster urged to follow Scotland’s lead with fracking inquiry

    New battery invented by Glasgow scientists could revolutionise electric cars

    Stornoway deep water port to bring decom opportunities


  138. Nana says:

    Which EU country has the largest number of citizens (4.9 million) living abroad? A clue: It’s the country that calls its citizens living abroad “ex-pats” rather than calling them “immigrants”

    Brexit: a failure of editorial judgement

  139. starlaw says:

    License TV detector vans never worked. They simply went by who had bought a license and who had not, and just wrongly assumed everbody had a television.

  140. Bill Hume says:

    James Caithness at 08:18.
    This was 2 years ago.
    Strange that they think they can reform a constitution which doesn’t exist.

  141. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says

    ” If there is to be a Westminster General Election within the next few months, independence needs to be front and foremost in the SNP’s …. The big mistake of 2017 was that the SNP tried to avoid making the vote about independence …. result was that opponents of independence were motivated to vote, but supporters of independence were not. The SNP can’t make that mistake again. “

    I completely and totally agree with what WGD says here, and have said so in comments since GE2017. IMO not having independence at the centre of the 2017 campaign was a mistake. Probably the only significant mistake I would accuse the SNP of making.

    A snap GE would be a wonderful opportunity… to get YES supporters active again and kick out every BritNat MP in the process!

  142. Macart says:


    Good catch by you and Thepnr on the Canary piece Nana. That’s laid out as concisely as anyone could ask. Also? Absolutely on WGD post. 🙂

  143. Breeks says:

    James Caithness says:
    15 August, 2018 at 8:18 am
    If this is correct it is worrying…

    Yes and No James.

    “They” cannot unilaterally alter the Treaties of Union, nor can they wield Scottish Sovereignty against our will, or strip us of our Sovereignty. The fact they want to re-engineer a different kind of Union I see as their tacit acknowledgement that the current Union is hanging by a thread and the Constitutional legitimacy of the United Kingdom is a complete dog’s breakfast that will not survive rigorous trial in a Constitutional Court. They must divert us from taking that path.

    They must therefore seek to buy us off and turn our heads with sophistry, deception, and misdirection to prevent us pursuing our Constitutional grievance to a suitable Court, and securing International Recognition thereafter. (Anybody still struggling to understand what the “Vow” actually was?)

    The inconvenient truth for them is that “UK” Constitution has to be, and must remain an unwritten and impenetrable dog’s breakfast, because wherever there is established clarity, there they will find Scotland’s legitimate, popular and inalienable Sovereignty of the people staring them in the face.

    Don’t be distracted Scotland. Let us stay true and focussed, and end this Cathedral of deception.

  144. Sinky says:

    If anyone going to hear Gordon Brown on Child Poverty at Book festival.

    Remember this:

  145. marydoll says:


    Its batter the baby box time on EBC – courtesy of Kirsty Walk.
    Has she been sent up her to calm the natives?

  146. Nana says:

    Morning Macart,

    Oops thanks for alerting me to Thepnr having already linked to the canary piece.

    Sorry Thepnr, my alert reader badge needs polishing 🙂

    One more link

  147. Breeks says:

    galamcennalath says:
    15 August, 2018 at 9:02 am
    Nana says

    I completely and totally agree with what WGD says here, and have said so in comments since GE2017. IMO not having independence at the centre of the 2017 campaign was a mistake. Probably the only significant mistake I would accuse the SNP of making….

    I agree too, but I want both barrels. A General Election fought on an Independence mandate, AND the “prevailing” Constitutional Sovereign Integrity of the United Kingdom absolutely taken apart.

  148. jfngw says:

    @liz g

    As there was no way of recording in the vans, they were pretty basic, there would be no way to use it as evidence. It was as everyone has stated an intimidation device. I was just commenting that there was some equipment in them.

    I used to work with someone who had previously been a detector van engineer. It was sometime in the 1970’s and if I remember correctly (it’s a long time ago) he worked for the GPO at the time.

  149. Nana says:

    What now? Without a concept, Britain continues to teeter toward Brexit day. At the moment, there is little hope that anyone will pull the emergency brake and at least postpone the unfortunate event.

    Should anyone want to read what Gordie Broon is spouting, here you go.

  150. HandandShrimp says:

    The TV detector vans primarily worked off of lists of houses without a TV licence and snooped around looking for aerials and TVs glowing through windows. The technology inside was rudimentary to say the least and largely copied from the Ministry of Housinge cat detector vans

  151. call me dave says:

    Kirsty Wark on ‘your call’ since the start of the week as old Kaye still missing.

    Today it’s the ‘Baby Box’ for about the fifth time in recent memory. Shortbread radio’s like a dog knawing a bone…FGS!

  152. jfngw says:

    BBC are livid, the baby boxes are a success with parents, detested by others. Time to have a Labour luvvie presenter get some negative comments to condemn the baby box, I just hope it’s not their own production staff phoning in although I suspect there must be enough unionists out there to repond to the dog whistle (probably also letter writers).

    Now time for a multiple failure Gordon Brown to step in, telling us how great it would be with Labour in charge. Not enough time has passed Mr Brown, we still remember who was at the helm when the country tanked.

    The man whose lack of diligence heralded in austerity telling us how to reverse austerity, it seems this is tax Scots more. So you take more from people in tax and then give some of it back to them in benefits, well I suppose it may result in some more jobs to administer this. It was always Brown’s way, make the tax system as complicated as possible. Hope he doesn’t avoid this increase in tax by funnelling payments through a charity, surely not.

    Does anybody in Scotland listen to a word of this charlatan any more?

  153. jfngw says:


    I hope you’ve reported that clip to the BBC for copyright violation.

  154. galamcennalath says:

    Nana says:

    It continues to amaze me (though I suppose it no longer should) how foreign media completely understand the situation in the UK and within the Tory ‘government’, and can present it with such crystal clarity. This article hits the nail (again).

    It’s classed as an Opinion piece, but doesn’t say by whom. So presumably it’s really a Deutsche Welle editorial piece. Further, ” Whether the prime minister can survive party infighting and hold her own beyond the autumn … is doubtful.” , they appear to believe TMay can’t survive failure to achieve the Withdrawal Agreement by October. They could be right.

  155. jfngw says:

    I have a feeling the people who phone in to BBC Scotland, and get on air, are probably the same people that you spot in the comments section of the Herald and Scotsman. The BBC, Herald, Scotsman they are the unionist playground, if you believe the content of their output then independence support must be about 10%.

  156. galamcennalath says:

    call me dave says:

    Today it’s the ‘Baby Box’ for about the fifth time in recent memory. Shortbread radio’s like a dog knawing a bone…FGS!

    Baby boxes are a good idea. Everyone who knows about subject says so. Time for the BBC and BritNats to move on. They’ve lost that one.

    And there are so many topics they could discuss …

    Where’s Ruth?
    Tory Dark Money
    Was EURef invalid because of cheating?
    Should Scotland be dragged to Brexit by London?

    … or how about a phone in and discussion on, with RevStu as an expert guest ….

    BBC bias!

  157. mike cassidy says:

    Forget tv detector vans as a retro thing.

    They were still selling that bull as recently as 2016 with claims they could detect your use of iplayer!

    And the Amyas Morse in the article is still selling the bull about the licencefee payers ‘owning’ the BBC. (wouldn’t archive)

    Read while sitting comfortably, Mr Peffers!

  158. gus1940 says:

    What has happened to Newsnet?

    I keep getting 403 Access Forbidden.

  159. Nana says:

    @ gus1940

    I’m getting the same, checked their twitter and it seems they have a virus threat

  160. HandandShrimp says:

    85% take up on baby boxes would suggest that the general public are rather more taken with the approach than our SIU Tory chooooms.


  161. call me dave says:


    I ‘knaw I knaw’ but it’s what the shortbread radio branch office do.
    Kirsty Wark into bat now, she was a big name once like Cameron.

    They spent 30mins on the School of Art fire and the ‘locked out residents’ all good stuff for PQ… 🙁

    PS:knaw is of course gnaw I was on the tablet earlier, predictive texty thing too late to change it. Home at last. 🙂

  162. Thepnr says:

    This is good for laugh, if you can laugh about Brexit.

  163. Derick fae Yell says:

    Dave McEwan Hill
    14 August, 2018 at 10:32 pm

    I agree regarding the Daily Record. It’s gone from wall to wall hostility, to McLeishing

    ‘McLeishing”. v, to prevaricate, to sit upon the fence, to hint but never confirm.

  164. Robert Peffers says:

    @starlaw says: 15 August, 2018 at 7:31 am:

    ” License TV detector vans never worked. They simply went by who had bought a license and who had not, and just wrongly assumed everbody had a television.”

    You are nearly right, starlaw, but it was even more basic than that. They didn’t even know who had and who had not bought a licence and it is still the same today.

    The information they had/have is addresses that have no record of, “The legal occupiers”, whoever they may be, having bought a licence. They do not even know who lives at the address. Just that there is no licence issued for that address.

    Which is why all their letters are addressed to, “The Legal occupier”. It is also why no one at the address should ever divulge to them who they are or if they are, “The Legal Occupier”. Tell them nothing and they are not officers of any legal law enforcement organisation. They have lo legal right to demand anyone identifies themselves or indeed speaks to them.

    They have no more legal right to be at your door than any other member of the public. In Scotland, unless they are a law enforcement, from services like Gas, Water, Electricity, Phone or the like who have legal rights, their only right to be in close proximity to a private dwelling is to contact, “The legal occupier”, and if asked who they want to speak with and cannot give a name, chase them and if they refuse to leave call the police.

  165. Dr Jim says:

    Gordon Brown using the Daily Record as his mouth says Scotland must stay *part* of the UK because it’s better, yes we know the Tories are bad but it’s still *better*, yes we know Brexit is bad but stayin *part* of the UK is *better*

    Scotland must pay the Tories to be in charge of the UK that’s *better* then Scotland must find money to mitigate the bad stuff the Tories are doing to Scotland because it’s *better* to do that

    I can’t wait for Gordon Brown to come round my house and tell me this so I can make his face *better* then I’ll mitigate the F..k out of him

  166. Golfnut says:

    The Withdrawal Bill is a Constitutional nightmare for the Crown. People forget all to readily that the Monarch wears 2 crowns, separate crowns, the union was rejected by both England’s and Scotland’s Parliaments.

    A majority of Scotland’s MP’s rejected the Withdrawal Bill. By majority Holyrood rejected the Withdrawal Bill. By referendum the people of Scotland rejected withdrawal from the EU. Westminster forcing the Queen of England to sign the Withdrawal Bill is their right, forcing the Queen of Scots isn’t.

  167. Macart says:

    So Mr Broon’s answer to legislative incompetence and inhumanity from Westminster is mitigation. Uh Hunh!

    Mr Broon’s opinions led a lot of people into this shit storm. His intervenshunsssss helped convince people to allow Westminster to legislate over the population of Scotland. Perhaps he’d care to fucking mitigate the bills for a biblical failure of the political process? Guarantee (AGAIN) jobs and paypackets for those about to lose them? No?

    Then he can consider his intervenshuuunnnssss taken under advisement and leave the solution in the hands of adults.

  168. Fred says:

    @ Thepnr, brilliant!

  169. OT the media always have in depth interviews with the holicost survivors etc., but never seem to have any from the Palastine people who’s relations have been murderd by Israeli snipers l wonder why ???

  170. Dan Huil says:

    Broon: the bloated personification of pus-faced British nationalism. A liar and total tractor.

  171. Nana says:

    The Newsnet article is up now, have archived it in case it disappears

  172. Nana says:

    Last links for today.

    Hard Brexit will cost average person in Aberdeen £1,776 a year according to new study

    I was in a Washington cafe when a senior British diplomat sat beside me with an ambassador from Europe. After outlining the official Brexit position & discussing editorial changes at the Mail, the UK official said they expect the government to ask for an Article 50 extension…

  173. mr thms says:

    It is very good news that Scotland’s rate of GDP growth is pulling ahead of the UK average.

    However, when it comes to comparing the rate of increase of Scotland’s GDP, with the rate of increase for the UK, Scotland’s rate of increase EXCLUDES the rate of growth in the production of Scotland’s offshore oil and gas industry. Whereas the UK’s rate of increase INCLUDES the rate of growth in the production of Scotland’s offshore oil and gas industry.

    It is recorded in the UK’s statistics under ‘Extra regio’

  174. Dr Jim says:

    The powdered milk and castor oil party:

    I’ll soon be 70 years of age and in my whole life I don’t remember the country and people of Scotland doing anything else but “mitigate” for every decision made in England that told us what to do
    We “mitigated” for coal we “mitigated” for steel we “mitigated” for shipbuilding we “mitigated” for poverty including polio rickets scarlet fever mumps and measles, I personally “mitigated” by digging peat for my mothers fire I “mitigated” by standing at the rail sidings waiting for coal to fall from the trains so I could take it home to burn, I”mitigated” by stealing turnips potatoes cabbage and rhubarb from farmers fields for my mother to help to “mitigate” against her meagre kitchen supplies to feed us all, I “mitigated” by shooting rabbits with a bow and arrows until they told us all the rabbits had myxomatosis and we couldn’t eat them

    My mother “mitigated” every year for school uniforms by passing down the older ones to the younger ones and then stitching them together to make them presentable for the school photograph that she had to “mitigate” to pay for

    People like Gordon Brown and his Labour party have had Scotlands people “mitigating” for the main party *the Tories* all my life and you know what’s despicable about it, the whole time they told us we were worthless and that was just our lot in life to serve our “country” by “mitigatingly” filling up the pockets of the people who told us this shit then promising next year would be better especially if we worked really hard at school then left Scotland to get a better job and life in “England”

    The place we’d been “mitgating” all our lives for in order to make “England” the motherland better off

    The Bastirts are trying to con us into doing it all over again and *I hold in my hand this piece of paper* my ration book to prove it

  175. Nana says:

    Ach well, maybe just one more

    Scots economic growth outstripped UK

  176. Vestas says:

    Love the way dinosaur Broon keeps trying to earn enough brownie points to get into the ermine vermin club.

    He’s got two hopes, one’s Bob & he’s long dead 😀

    The only Scots politician the English public hate worse than Alex Salmond is Gordon Brown.

  177. Effijy says:

    Is that Broon who threatened that an Independent Scotland would
    become the only oil rich democracy in the world who couldn’t afford pensions that were guaranteed by Westminster, that would not afford to have a Blood Transfusion Service and Organ Transplant waiting list, unlike Every other Nation in Europe.

    He is a self-serving champagne socialist who spends £10,000 per week on expenses coming out of a Charity in his name.

    Scotland would be £Billions better off if this guy had gone off to another profession.

    Large Clunking Waste of space that has been a millstone around Scotland’s neck since he came into power.

  178. Golfnut says:

    @ Dr Jim.

    Very powerful, eloquent and oh, so true.

    Glad your back.

  179. Thepnr says:

    Gordon Brown “I Dreamed a Dream” well that went well.

  180. yesindyref2 says:

    It won’t be long before you’ll have to look on abebooks for Broon. £0.50 + £2.50 P&P. A bargain! 3 to 5 days delivery.

  181. Marcia says:

    Interesting information from that Newsnet article that Nana gave a link to. Aberdeen North is Kirsty Blackman’s seat.

  182. Iain mhor says:

    Hmm Blockchain voting.

    I.T Rule #1 Security is hard.
    When a transaction (vote) is registered on a blockchain it becomes very difficult to manipulate in any way, but how do you get your vote registered?
    There’s the rub.
    That’s before addressing the core principle of decentralised anonymity underpinning the core of ‘Blockchain’ which by necessity cannot really occur.
    There does not need to be “one blockchain to rule them all” however; There could be many individual blockchain voting systems at Constituency or even Ward level. In fact that would be far more “Secure” than a single system. In that it would require far more resources to attempt to manipulate different secure keys and tokens prior to a vote being cast. With smaller blockchain nodes, local scrutiny in real-time increses also.

    Blockchain is not a magical panacea. It merely shifts potential fraud to another medium. Where traditional final centralised ballot counts may be relatively accurate and secure, the potential for ballot stuffing, postal frauds, proxy voting etc always exists prior to a final collation point.
    Similarly, distribution of keys & tokens required for blockchain voting, will be via media more insecure and prone to electronic manipulation than the final blockchain ledger itself. Electronic media interception is the domain of nation state intelligence services. Then of course they must be returned on a similar path to register on the ledger.
    To counter this, you are in the realms of end-to-end encryption of the path – which is not (yet) part of the current proposals or even in use by countries currently trialling such systems. It adds a layer of I.T security ccomplexity for voters which the majority will be unskilled at.
    There is a reason everybody and their dug doesn’t shop with ‘Bitcoins’ with such complete end-to-end security. You have to have a competence to understand how to use it.
    Even without added complexity, there is also the same ‘proxy’ postal voting problem of 3rd parties ‘assisting’ you to cast your vote – It just changes from “I’ll help you fill it in & post it” to “”I’ll show you how to enter it or do it for you”

    Blockchain still has benefits traditional voting does not, in that, all else considered, the cast vote is secured and a voter could still flag that their vote had not been registered or not registered correctly as intended.
    However, what percentage of voters would actually scrutinise their individual vote in this way?
    There is though an issue (similar to the recent “Youtube” policy we are familiar with) of how many ‘flags’ from voters would it take to cast doubt on the integrity (if not security of the system) eg: If you have ensured you managed to “help someone cast a blockchain vote” they’re highly unlikely to know you are also afterwards flagging the vote as having been registered incorrectly. A twist on trying to mark a different vote on a hapless individuals traditional postal ballot.
    A novel system will be held to more account than traditiinal methods. Especially if a vote seems to be swinging the ‘wrong way’ eh?

    *This is a different issue to the internal integrity of the blockchain itself, which theoretically cannot be manipulated undetected after a vote or ‘transaction’ is registered – just to be clear. The blockchain itself is secure… Getting your vote registered on it? Maybe not so much.

    Blockchain voting has both its strengths and weaknesses. It also has a ‘unique’ problem in that it must be open. That is to say voting patterns can be observed in real-time and may influence individual voting if voters are persuaded, on seeing swings, to cast a vote differently.

    Security is hard indeed.
    Still, perhaps “Somethings actually happeneng Reg!” 😉

  183. galamcennalath says:

    Gordon Brown will be remembered for many things, few of the good.

    Labour love spinning the tale that the SNP handed the keys of number 10 to Thatcher in 1979. That is bullshit. However we mustn’t forget that Brown’s massive personal ego allowed Cameron to grab control.

    The 2010 GE seats were …
    Conservative Party 306
    Labour Party 258
    Liberal Democrats 57

    The LibDems obviously favoured an arrangement with Labour and for a few days after the GE were in talks. Cameron didn’t expect a call from the LibDems and made other arrangements for some R&R that first weekend.

    Clegg’s red line was that Brown must stand down as PM of any Lab-LibDem coalition. At first this seemed to be accepted, but then Brown changed his mind and insisted on staying on.

    Clegg then begun talks with Cameron, much to his surprise, and the rest is history.

  184. Breeks says:

    Keith Brown launches new SNPbad rebuttal service. Better late than never eh?

    Grand comments too for Rev Stu below…

  185. galamcennalath says:

    Appeal in Court of Session on June’s ruling.

    ” Can Britain alone stop Brexit? Scottish court hears appeal “

  186. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana says: 15 August, 2018 at 12:28 pm:

    ” … Scots economic growth outstripped UK”

    You know what, Nana?

    That’s perhaps the saddest link you have posted in a long time?

    Now that, coming from me, might sound strange – me being the ultimate independence optimist that I am, but hear me out.

    The increase in Scottish growth in fact only actually benefits the very few employees in Scotland employed by the London based, multi-National companies that employ them here in Scotland. Even then that’s only if those multi-nationals are paying the Scots a wee bit extra for their increased output.

    Every bloody penny of the VAT, Customs & Excise, tax on profits by shareholders who are non-dom, and so on goes right into Her Majesty’s Treasury. Meanwhile Westminster sits there laughing its arse off as it decides what proportion of the extra earned Scottish economic growth it will include in the figures for the Barnett Consequentials it will use in adjusting the Scottish Block Grant.

    That is before they then go on the Westminster Propaganda BBC to tell we Scots that it is English taxpayer’s money they generously subsidise us with and we should think shame we are so ungrateful to our so generous equal partners in the United Kingdom.


  187. Liz g says:

    Jfngw @ 9.46
    Aye we’re on the same page Jfngw,unfortunately it seems so is the Daily Mail LOL…. Never mind even a broken clock has to be right twice a day,so we can give them that one.
    Also while I reckon that 1. There would need to be legislation to use these vans if they were real!
    And 2. There is no such legislation cause they’re not…well not in the sense that the public were given to understand.
    It would be interesting to find out if there’s any records in Kew of Westminsters agreement to the deception, a sort of who knew what and when type of thing…. well..If yer as sad as me it’s interesting…and before ye say it,I know it has not a thing tae dae wi Indy…like I said jist one of the strange things sad people like me wonder about..LOL..

  188. Robert Peffers says:

    @Vestas says: 15 August, 2018 at 12:30 pm:

    ” … Love the way dinosaur Broon keeps trying to earn enough brownie points to get into the ermine vermin club.
    He’s got two hopes, one’s Bob & he’s long dead ?
    The only Scots politician the English public hate worse than Alex Salmond is Gordon Brown”

    I may be wrong but isn’t it a fact that all former Prime Ministers automatically get the skunk tippit jackit?

  189. Brian Powell says:

    Can the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations do campaigning for a political party, seems they are for Labour in Scotland. Is the policy head David Stewart, conneted to Labour, I wonder?

    Labour as 3rd Party in Holyrood can’t commit to anything.

  190. yesindyref2 says:

    Alex Neil and some other SNP politicians seem to think the wider YES movement is a collection of useful idiots whose sole purpose is to keep the SNP in “power” as they call it, “government” as I call it, and SNP politicians in jobs.

    YES is about – YES. To Independence.


  191. Mark Fletcher says:

    Do you think there are, by now, a cohort of young Scottish voters who have never heard of Gordon Brown?

  192. Scottish Steve says:

    How long can Scotland’s (and indeed the UK’s) media continue to ignore the political aspirations of almost half the Scottish electorate? In any other healthy democracy, media would be much more representative of the country’s politics. But not here.

    Scots really do put up with far too much. It’s no wonder we’ve been shat on for the past three centuries.

  193. Nana says:

    Hi Robert,

    I admit I’m not the brightest when it comes to money matters, other than I can spend it quite quickly. My hubby will agree 🙂

    Here’s the Scotgov GDP growth report.

    I hope you are looking after yourself Robert.

  194. SOG says:

    I hope this is acceptable, it shows the MSM launching a major smear on the basis of either geographic ignorance or One Big Lie. It’s from the FB page of Dennis Skinner and needs spreading wider…

    “Have seen the U.K. reports that Jeremy Corbyn laid a wreath at the grave of the Munich Terrorists in Tunisia. This report carries the small logistical problem of the Munich Terrorists being buried in Libya, not Tunisia. The commemoration Jeremy attended was to mark the 1985 bombing of Tunisia by Israel that killed 47. Now, in fairness to the Daily Mail, Libya and Tunisia are in the minds of its readership as much of a muchness. But if you crack out that atlas and scroll your finger along North Africa you’ll see them damn natives actually make up two different countries. I can confirm Jeremy has never attended a wreath laying ceremony in Libya, nor has he attended the service of a Munich Terrorist. Enjoy the rest of your day folks.x”

  195. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 13:45,

    It’s amazing how this “will of the people” thing is so dang immutable. Decisions in 2014 and 2016 taken on the basis of distortion, outright lies and dark money must stand, according to the Tories. Never mind that a new UK-wide EU referendum, in the light of better knowledge and despite the desperate ongoing smokescreening of a small coterie of green-ink zealots, would now likely deliver the plumb opposite result.

    So who knows what the Court of Session will make of it all, or the SC after it, since an appeal from one side or the other is almost certain…

  196. galamcennalath says:

    yesindyref2 says:

    Alex Neil and some other SNP politicians seem to think the wider YES movement is a collection of useful idiots whose sole purpose is to keep the SNP in “power”

    I joined the SNP after IndyRef1. I have always voted for them (when in Scotland). I campaign actively for them.

    That is NOT some fanatical loyalty, or cult following, or support in the way some folks illogically follow sports teams.

    That has been a pragmatic means to an end – and that is of course to facilitate Scottish independence.

    And, as wee bonus, the SNP have in government made a pretty good job under dreadful presssures and circumstances.

    My membership and support is conditional on ALWAYS working to achieve independence. Myself and the many others like me, must never be taken for granted.

    I trust Nicola and think she’s on the right track, though impatience is always nagging away.

  197. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Robert Peffers @ 1.58pm

    Once again, Auld Boab, you are on the money. Former Prime Mnisters of a Westminster government are still automatically entitled to an Earldom.

    However, not since Sir Anthony Eden became Earl of Avon, has a former PM gne straight from the lower to the Upper House on quitting. Harold MacMillan waited 20 years before becoming Earl of Stockton, while every subsequent PM has either: Wilson, Callaghan, Thatcher, acceted only a Life Peerage or: Heath, Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron opted to stay out of the Lords.

    Of course, there is always the possibility the Lords might not want the last three, or even the current incumbent, to join them.

    In any case, the Maybot has promised to end automatic peerages for the elite, so, maybe the Earldom/Life Peer option will also vanish.

    Still, since Scotland is liable to be split from the Kingdom of England by the time she goes, or shortly afterwards, we need not worry ourselves too-much about this.

  198. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr @ 18:28 (14.Aug),

    (Just catching up). Thanks for that. That one example makes me wonder if the longstanding quasi-incestuous relationship between the Scottish media and the Labour Party goes some way to explaining the long-term decline of the native press. Parallels that of NorthBritLab. Endemic lack of vision, laziness and cahooterie (is that a word?) on both sides.

    So now Alf has a berth on The Times (of London). The old BT chums network lives on, albeit in attenuated form, it would seem.

  199. Terence callachan says:

    It’s no surprise that the Sunday herald is to combine with the herald.They do not sell enough papers to keep both outfits but no matter what ,they will continue to support Westminster and print snpbad stories and tell lies about Scotlands natural resource wealth.
    England will do anything to keep control of Scotland.
    If they lose control of Scotland they will lose control of Wales and Northern Ireland soon after, they know this and that is why they lie and cheat and use illegal tactics to keep control of Scotland.
    We all know there was something very wrong about the number of postal votes in the last Scottish independence referendum but trying to get information is impossible because England control it,that’s why they keep control of broadcasting immigration pensions corporation tax and other wealth taxes ,Scotland is constrained and no amount of devolution will ever give Scotland the information and control that shows the ordinary people of Scotland what is being stolen from them.
    England has flooded Scotland with English people as well and I accept there are some that are here to live in Scotland permanently but ninety five percent are here temporarily and will never ever ever vote in favour of Scottish independence, they came here to work they benefitted from their country England being in control of Scotland ,so called British government organisations and British businesses giving them jobs here that Scottish people could do ,nearly eighteen percent of our population are English people now nearly all are adults here to work ,not many children but that means all the more voters in that group ,they made up a third of the NO vote in the last Scottish independence referendum and will do so again,if anything there will be more of them next time around because the Scottish office and other civil service departments has been merrily filling thousands of posts many of them brand new posts, in Scotland ,with English people.
    For democracy to be in practice the people that are from the country that you no longer want to control your country ,should not be allowed to vote ,it doesn’t matter where they live ,it’s a simple case of democracy to let the people of Scotland decide, its clearly undemocratic to let a huge number of English people decide that Scotland cannot have independence .
    Wake up.
    This is not racism it’s not about race or colour of skin or religion, it’s about saying to England you will not have a say in whether or not Scotland will be independent ,once you say that you will see that Scottish independence is a certainty.
    It would have been a certainty last time if we had the courage to say to England and its people you will take no part in the Scottish independence referendum .
    English people living in Scotland are not Scottish they are not Scots they are English people living in Scotland.Perhaps their children or their children’s children will be Scottish Welsh r Scots if they live here that long but nearly all of them won’t .

  200. Robert Peffers says:

    @yesindyref2 says: 15 August, 2018 at 2:22 pm:

    ” … Alex Neil and some other SNP politicians seem to think the wider YES movement is a collection of useful idiots whose sole purpose is to keep the SNP in “power” as they call it, “government” as I call it, and SNP politicians in jobs.”

    Yes! Great idea!

    Let’s all stop voting for that BAAAAAD! SNP lot of posers and instead vote for one of the Rainbow Unionists.

    Oh! Wait Up! Better still all vote for the confederation of Far Left Numpties who cannot even agree within their own far left faction never mind with the other far left factions. None of which can get an MSP elected to the Holyrood Parliament.

    Great plan Yesindyref2 that’ll get Scotland out of debate about independence – mind you it will only get them out of the debate – it won’t get them out of the union.

  201. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Re TV detector vans.

    In January 2015, there was one on display in the Science Museum in London.

    Further info (plenty links at the first link!):-

  202. ahundredthidiot says:

    yesindyref2 re SNP and oor Alex

    I too dislike the term ‘power’ and I think it highlights the natural narcissism all politicians bring to the table – some more than others of course.

    Personally, I would like to see the SNP (even as a current party member) commit to some sort of time-frame for dissolving AFTER Independence. Maybe 2 years. Enough to be a responsible government in transition, but a recognition that a National Party has achieved it’s aim and is no longer necessary.

    I actually think it would win some people over to Yes, in one fell swoop we could completely undermine the whole SNPBAAD campaign with ‘well, vote for independence and they’ll all go away’

    And it’s not like they would all go away anyway, so they’re jobs will still be safe (sort of) – simply set up right, centre and left parties. The Scotland can find Her own way.

  203. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 13:33,

    O/T I don’t recall it like that at all, I’m afraid, even though I’m no fan of El Gordo.

    The then right-wing LibDem leadership of Clegg & Co. was already well-disposed to the Tories, thinking that Cameron and his buddies were people on much the same wavelength. Cameron liked the idea of a decent buffer against his own loony-tune right. I believe it was those two groups who readily got together to talk first, probably at the instigation of Osborne. (The Tories have always recognised that getting your hands on the levers of power is what matters most.)

    It was ex-leader Ashdown for the Libs and (I think) Mandelson for the Labs who tried to set up an alternative channel, but that was scuppered by a significant segment of the Labour leadership, especially Ed Balls, who were dead-set against a deal. Perhaps in part a reaction to their experience in Scotland, or maybe just their suffocating arrogance. For them it was all-or-nothing.

    El Gordo’s contribution was to swither, as he was wont to do. By the time he finally acted, the opportunity was gone.

    (A lesson in carpe diem that might usefully be learnt by some in the SNP, it would seem.)

  204. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oh dearie me, another incoherent outburst from our occasional resident xenophobe.

    Apparently still oblivious to the simple fact that nothing he says will have one whit of influence on the rules for voter eligibility at any upcoming election.

    One wonders why he bothers, except of course it brings disrepute to this website in particular and the Yes campaign in general.

  205. Dr Jim says:

    Yes the SNP should just disband after Independence so we can vote for, erm, eh, let me think, eh I’ll get there in a minute, I just can’t put my finger on it, but I will, I’ll definitely vote foooor?

    SNP don’t for F sake disband there’s nobody else I’d rather vote for, or do we think Labour or the Tories will magically change and behave differently

    Aye that’ll happen

  206. Fred says:

    Good news indeed that Keith Brown will be firing back the incoming cannon-balls, about time too.

  207. Socrates MacSporran says:

    OMG – here we are, watching some on here discussing whether or not the SNP ought to disband within a set time after Independence is gained, or what.

    You are getting ahead of yourself people. At the moment, up to our butts in alligators we may be, but, we still have a swamp to drain.

    Let’s concentrate on the job in hand – which is getting away from Westminster and its dead hand against Scotland’s progress.

    Just think of what we will have to do in the first weeks/months/years even, after Independence.

    Aside from writing and bringing into use our constitution, we will have to separate the Scottish civil service from the London-run one – and some of those we keep will surely be totally wedded to London ways. Ditto the other arms of state – the armed forces, social welfare infrastructure etc will all have to be separated from London control and realigned into what Scotland wants.

    With England Hell-bent on Brexit, we will have to probably look at, as a matter of urgency, setting-up the infrastructure and means of by-passing England to trade with Europe – ferry ports and services to Europe, better air links etc.

    Then, there will be the ongoing fifth column within our political classes. Not all the current members, particularly the elected ones in the ranks of the Blue, Red and Yellow Tories will accept Independence as the settled will of the Scottish people.

    They will still be there, agitating for a return to the UK. I mean, we didn’t accept the 2014 result as the end of the battle, I can see some on that side being ready to fight on, particularly if the result is as close, but the opposite way, as 2014 was.

    Of course, Ruth the Mooth will almost-certainly high-tail it South, however, perhaps not – she and Mrs May may well be handed whisky bottles and loaded revolvers and invited to go next door, as the price of losing Scotland and breaking up their precious Union.

    I can see the SNP continuing, post-Independence, as the left-of-centre, Social Democratic party it currently is. However, there will surely be re-alignment, a right-of-centre genuinely-Scottish Conservative party will arise, while the rump of Labour will re-form, perhaps to the left of the SNP.

    But, all that is up to five years down the line. We can put such issues on the back burner, the ONLY thing that matters now is – we win Indyref2. We cannot think of anything else until that first step is complete.

  208. stu mac says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says:
    15 August, 2018 at 3:57 pm
    Oh dearie me, another incoherent outburst from our occasional resident xenophobe.

    Perhaps it’s a plant for the future when an new Indy Ref campaign begins and their planted posts can be used to smear the Indy campaign? There are a couple of other posters like that, though not as crude as him.

  209. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Peffers
    The mandate is for Indy Ref 2 in THIS TERM OF PARLIAMENT SO THERE WILL BE NO ELECTIONS (apart maybe for a snap GE) BEFORE INDY REF 2.

    And I already told you – Troll off!

  210. yesindyref2 says:

    @Terence callachan

    “Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

    15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

    20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations — as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

    22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.”

    But you already know that.

  211. ahundredthidiot says:


    you’re missing my point. Of course the only thing that matters is winning indyref2. We ain’t winning on passion alone, we need a strategy and tactics.

    A time-frame would help – simple as that.

  212. Fred says:

    The brass neck of Tory education supremo Liz Smith telling the Scottish Government to “Get a grip!” over slippage of prospective learners of French, German & Spanish etc’ when the very same lady is party to robbing those language students of their European citizenship, whether they like it or not!

  213. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 17:02,

    Well, indeed, though I reckon that RP is simply defending his party, as he is wont to do at the drop of a hat.

    What worries me far more is that the Wishartite kite appears to have taken to the skies again of late, even though October is still a long way away, politically speaking.

    I can’t make my mind up if this is merely a new rearguard action by a minority of a decidedly more cautious disposition, or if a deliberate attempt is underway at a massaging of expectation because the “60% support” threshold is still tantalisingly beyond reach.

    As (our) James Kelly rightly reminds us, however, that threshold is never going to be reached unless we embark on a full-scale campaign for independence.

    The chicken-and-egg conundrum, basically.

    I certainly find these latest “signs and portents” troubling, though, because they do seem to indicate an ongoing lack of self-confidence and resolution at the top of the SNP.

  214. yesindyref2 says:

    A well-respected poster on the Herald pointed out that “Mr Neil is anti-EU and wants us out of the EU”.

    Seems to be a priority for some like Neil, with Independence playing second fiddle. Sillars the same.

    It’s all down to Sturgeon in October, that’s when we know if the trust and patience were well-founded, or we’ve been taken for voting fodder.

  215. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 18:00,

    Yes, it troubles me that even now, after the emergence of a better understanding of the true facts, that Mr Neil can still come out with cheap cardboard quotes like “federal superstate” in his recent interview in iScot.

    If he, Sillars and the like were true indy-supporting democrats independence, they would (however reluctantly) recognise the demonstrated will of the people and graciously concede.

    It’s not as though they don’t realise full well that in an independent Scotland, the people’s choice is going to be any different. That is why they are so desperate to have the BritNat state do their dirty work for them first.

    I don’t find that admirable in the least.

  216. Chick McGregor says:

    “Broon: the bloated personification of pus-faced British nationalism. A liar and total tractor.”

    That’d be a David Broon then or am I getting mixed up with an Alex Massie Ferguson, its no a McCormick anywie (I live in a rural area).

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