There’s only one Berti Vogts
Just the facts.
RECORD IN COMPETITIVE MATCHES
Berti Vogts P13 W5 D4 L4
George Burley P8 W3 D1 L4
Craig Levein P10 W3 D4 L3
PERCENTAGE OF GAMES WON
Berti Vogts 38.5
George Burley 37.5
Craig Levein 30
PERCENTAGE OF POINTS WON
Berti Vogts 48.8
George Burley 42
Craig Levein 43.3
Berti Vogts was building a young team from scratch after the veteran side of Craig Brown disintegrated, and still got us to the [EDIT: Euro 2004] playoffs. He was sacked after 13 competitive games. George Burley was being constantly undermined from within by his own players, from above by the SFA and from outside by the media. He was sacked after just eight competitive games.
Craig Levein has more players from the top divisions in England and Scotland at his disposal than any Scotland manager of the last decade. He has now led the team through 10 competitive games, and won significantly fewer of them (against worse opposition) than either Vogts or Burley. He has comprehensively lost the faith of the Scotland support. If we are to maintain even the slightest hope of qualification for World Cup 2014, his time is up. He must go, and he must go now.
APPENDIX:
WINS
Berti Vogts
Netherlands
Iceland (x2)
Lithuania
Faroe Islands
George Burley
Iceland (x2)
Lithuania
Craig Levein
Liechtenstein (x2)
Lithuania
DRAWS
Berti Vogts
Germany
Slovenia
Moldova
Faroe Islands
George Burley
Norway
Craig Levein
Czech Republic
Lithuania
Serbia
Macedonia
DEFEATS
Berti Vogts
Germany
Netherlands
Norway
Lithuania
George Burley
Netherlands (x2)
Norway
Macedonia
Craig Levein
Spain (x2)
Czech Republic
Given that two of Levein’s wins were against Lichtenstein, his winning record looks even more threadbare.
[EDIT BY REVSTU: For some reason Akismet decided this was spam. Retrieved and restored.]
Aye he’s got to go. We should’ve been done 3 or 4-1 last night by a team 97th in the world rankings. At Hampden!
Slight nitpicking and hate to be a smartarse but it was the Euro 2004 play-offs that Vogts got us to. With a poor German side, Lithuania, Iceland and the Faroes in the group he could hardly have done anything else. Would Levein have managed that? More than likely but he still MUST be given the boot.
The Macedonian manager took the job on August 21st and had his team organised and playing us off the park! I really despair at what we’ve become. Stuck in traffic, soaked walking up to Hampden, no change out of around £50 all-in to sit and freeze and get that dross served up to me!
Where did my comment go? Never had that before on here.
Is anyone saying with any confidence, and with all the talk of progress, that we would have beaten Liechtenstein on Saturday or Tuesday, playing the way we did?
“Where did my comment go? Never had that before on here.”
No comments have been deleted and there’s nothing in the queue. Will have a look in the spambox.
Cheers, Stuart. Weird – I can see it now but it’s got “awaiting moderation” at the top.
That’s because I had to mark it as “Not Spam” first, which doesn’t auto-approve it but bumps it into the moderation queue, and I then have to go there and approve it manually…
There are statistics and there are statistics but I never ever though that I would see one that made Berti Vogts look good .
The managers since wee Broon apart from two ex Rangers managers have all been shite and the players even worse, tactically niave at best but minve at worst , Levein has lost the dressing room , and by failing to bridge the troubles with Fletcher has compounded his failings more,BUT who to replace him, Personally I would go for Strachan as I dont think Wattie Smith would come back again and I dont rate Macleish as a manager on the big scene, he did all right with Hibs then Rangers in a poor SPL but internationally its a no-no from me
I heard on the radio in the car that CL claims the fans are backing him!
I had also heard that Levein was claiming supporters were backing him.
I have to assume the supporters of Serbia, Belgium, Croatia, Wales and FYRM
Someone posted this link on NNS. As i’m not allowed to comment there, i thought i would re-post it here. Brilliant. 🙂
link to bbc-scotlandshire.webridean.com
Totally agree Juteman, absolutely brilliant!
The worrying thing about the site is that it COULD actually be true. 😆
Juteman,
I do like the disclaimer at the bottom of that article.
Juteman et seq,
I thought it was real, well it looked and read so.
i still maintain that george burley would have made a good scotland manager. but certain players and top brass had it in for him right from the start.
Eight matches was a disgracefully short period of time, and to get the boot because of friendly results was appalling. He really was treated abominably, and on what basis? One genuinely bad result – the away defeat to Macedonia, in 90-degree heat before the Scottish season had started. His face just didn’t fit.
Brilliant juteman, the teuchter news section is class, I also had to vote for the grass eating question, I must confess to being quite partial to salad, seemed the logical question to ask lol.
Quality Juteman… saw that too.
Looks like were both in the same boat re NNS
Anyways back to the Lichenstein Game. After two mins of extra time us lots watching at the time resigned ourselves to the fact that such a humping may have brought some of the change required. But no, a win and the dross of 96 mins was all forgotten.
Same rubbish in every news item today on every channel, “its ok we’re only two points off the top” Wakey-Fecking-Wakey!!
Thanks for the link Juteman. I hope that who ever is behind it keeps updating the news stories.
Perhaps we should replace Levein with one of the GCC apprentices that Labour is keen to get rid of.
Chance of getting some results for a team that should be worth following.
As I said previously, Levein is dodgy. In the pockets of the London Establishment. As is those who selected him. What else happens in 2014? Join the dots…
While we’re on the subject of football, today the real Hillsborough report has come out and today the SNP in Westminister have been called hypocrites for wanting NATO protection [and that is ludicrious]. I don’t know all of what has now come out of Hillsborough but it seems if you want the protection of the British state, as a member of it, then you take your chances.
In memory of those who have died or suffered through the actions or the inactions of the British state.
Charlie
Charlie
Yesterday Mr Campbell blocked me on Twitter for my outrage at this statement he made on his Twitter account in relation to Hillsborough:
“Police failings numerous, but ultimately every single victim was killed by LFC fans.”
I don’t think I was out of order calling him inhumane. He blocked me after three tweets because apparently: “life’s too short to spend it arguing with stupid people”
I’ll not bore you with the rest of the details other than that I merely requoted the quote above when he denied he had said it.
Is this the quality of debate to be expected from independence supporters?
I want independence, but I think I’d rather the debate wasn’t tainted by this kind of hateful inhumanity.
I know this post isn’t on topic, but I think I raise an important point.
And just to finish off, here’s another quote from Mr Campbell regarding Hillsborough:
“No, idiots pushing into a solid wall of flesh caused the crush.”
Can such insensitivity really be considered worthy of an independence mouthpiece? Frankly, I find it disgusting.It taints and undermines any sensible argument he has to make.
And don’t worry Mr Campbell, you don’t need to censor me. You’ll be lucky if I post here again. Your hatefully loathsome pronouncements are repugnant beyond normal human comprehension. Not so well done indeed.I hope you’re proud of yourself.
Would you be willing to stand up in a church in Liverpool and repeat either of those statements?Let me know if you’d dare.
Your attempts to link my entirely personal views on Hillsborough with the independence campaign are despicable. Here’s the appropriate place for your misplaced outrage and implied threats of physical violence against someone for expressing a different opinion to yours:
link to wosland.podgamer.com
I beg to differ on whether getting to read any more of your posts is “lucky” or not.
@Prophet_Peden
I dont agree with the Rev on the cause of the Hillsborough disaster as I do believe the fans wouldnt have been in that situation if adequate precations and systems were in place… however, your attempts to conflate a persons personal views about a tragedy 23 years ago in an English Football Ground with independence are scraping the bottom of the barrel for credibility.
One mans views on a tragedy in another country have NO BEARING on the possibilities of Scottish Independence.
The Rev has understood this and made his views on another forum. I suggest going there if you wish to argue the point with him.
The missing point from Levein’s positivity is that we have 2 points from 2 home games where a win should have been expected. We all know from past experience you need to win home games and not lose all your away games to get close to qualification.
The fact that others are only 2 points ahead should be seen as a lost opportunity not a justification of our poor performances and results to date. All the rest have played away.
Can I just say that I think there is one organisation that does not appear to be in the firing line with regards to the Hillsborough disaster but, in my view, they should be at the top of the list. I’m talking about the English F.A. They were they people, if my memory serves me right, who arranged the cup game to be held at Hillsborough. This, in my view, was stunningly ignorant at best and downright stupid at worst. As soon as Liverpool made it through to the round that was to be played at Hillsborough the F.A. should have without question moved to game to a bigger ground. Failure to do so was a major contributing factor to the disaster.
I am no expert on anything to do with football but I recognise that Liverpool is one of the biggest clubs in the English game. When you tie that together with a cup quarter final or semi final then anyone will realise that there is going to be a massive Liverpool support wanting into the game. This game should NEVER have been arranged to take place at Hillsborough. From what I remember at the time the ground’s capacity was too small. Any one who was involved in the game at the time SHOULD have known that.
I have not read the report but from what I’ve heard on the news etc it would appear that the F.A. have been left untouched by the inquiry. One question, why? Their inept, in my view, organisation of this game was tantamount to the disaster that took place that horrible day.
According to sveral legal reviewers today of the Enquiry report, Hillsborough did not have a Ground Certificate and had failed the tests for such, including the unlit inclined tunnel leading to the overcrowded standing enclosure.
The silence of the FA is deafening.
Folks: Hillsborough discussion on the page I linked to, please. Any more appearing here will be deleted, I’m afraid.
[EDITED BY REVSTU: See above.]
Imposte that before you put your blocker on.
You ba’, your rules but I didnae break them.
Hey, nobody said you were a bastard or anything.
I’m just a Bugger, not a bastard.
Personally I would rather see the national team go out and ‘have a go’. Play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 and if we get roasted 3-0 then so what. I’d rather that than play 4-6-0 against everyone (even home games) and hope that ‘draws will get us through’ mentality. It’s fine for Spain to play without a striker, their possession skills are second to none, unfortunately, we’re not quite there yet.
Regarding the players over the years that have snubbed the national team, F**k ’em. If you don’t want to play then don’t – what we may lose in player ability we make up for in not having a negative dressing room and training sessions.
As for the comments and reaction to Hillsborough, upsetting though it is, I think it’s fair enough to question Liverpool fans actions on the day and have always thought so. What isn’t ok is the cover up by government and other officials plus the despicable press coverage and I’m glad to see that that has finally been exorcised. Maybe it’s just a wee bit soon for some people to calmly react and rationally respond.
“Regarding the players over the years that have snubbed the national team, F**k ‘em.”
I’m with you on that. If there’s one thing I do support Levein on it’s his attitude towards Fletcher. Fletcher was the one who stomped off in a huff and let his country down. Nobody’s even asked him to apologise, all he has to say is “I’d like to play for Scotland again” and he’s back in. If the dark blue jersey doesn’t matter enough to him to even do that, he’ll be no use to us anyway.
I agree with you maroonfever.
This 4-1-4-1 garbage is utter tripe!
I will say up front I’m no expertt on anything football related. However, there is one thing I have always believed in and that is picking players for a team, be it league level or International level, who WANT to “play for the shirt.” To play for your club or country is an HONOUR not a god given right!” It is time that ALL players realised this fact.
As many people have pointed out, it is not exactly a “cheap” day out to go and watch your International team play. It is therefore burdened upon the players to “prove” to the supporters that they (the players) are worthy of their (the supporters) support. I know that players are only capable of so much and as such the manager/coach must shoulder the majority of the burden. However, between his choice of players and the players abilities there MUST be some sort of compromise available that would see a Scottish team perform on the field to a far better standard that has been witnessed by many of late.
I sometimes get the felling that a team picked from the LOWER divisions of Scottish football would perform better than the current International squad. My reasoning, probably highly flawed I admit, is that at least THESE players would be playing for the shirt. THEY would be playing for the PRIDE in representing their country. They would have NOTHING to prove. At least with a team drawn from the lower divisions supporters would be ensured, in my view, of watching a team playing their hearts out to retain their place in the team. In my view the current Scotland squad appear to play with “couldn’t care less” attitude. (If I play fine if I don’t then no great loss!)
Sorry if I’ve upset some folk with these comments, it’s just how I feel about the current Scotland squad, manager/coach, etc.
Arbroath 1320,
You are not alone in getting ‘lost’ in modern footballs’ tactics.
For me, at least, the complete inability to complete passes was the most telling thing. Top class countries do this as a matter of course. They then adapt whatever notional formation they took off the drawing board and into the game itself. In other words no battle is won there, it is won on the pitch itself by outsmarting your opponent. Nominal shape is adjusted as the play dictates.
I watched a lot of Barcelona’s games last year, on the telly sad to say, and the only – relatively – successful tactic against them was to stay deep, refuse them goal scoring opportunities and to break fast and score. It was the inability of Barcelona to find a way to combat that that lost them points. And ultimately the League.
We couldn’t even adapt to the rather more meagre skills on display. There is nothing wrong with being a counter-attacking team, assuming you do, in fact counter-attack at speed and have the ability to play a telling pass.
We seemed incapable of playing that sort of game……
I remember watching Scotland playing Rugby. Our line out was pants and kept lossing the ball, so they stopped kicking it out. I was so Angry at them for not even trying that I switched the telly off and went and chopped Fire wood instead. (Taking my anger out on innocent trees.)
My point is, there is no shame in being beaten by better opposition, but the only thing I can’t stand to see more than Scotland loosing, is Scotland not trying. Levien reminds me of Flat Stanely, he lacks any character and sounds monotonous. How are players supposed to be inspired by someone like that? Can anyone say with honesty that they believe a player who had a stinker of a game would get a roasting from Levein? It’s not a co-incidence Alex Ferguson is one of the best managers in the world and is also famous for his Hair dryer like Bawling outs.
Still, it’s a bit like Celtic and Rangers. Who else, who is any good, would take the Job?
I wish we could see the same kind of turnaround in the performances of our football team that we’ve seen in our rugby team in the last couple of years. OK, we’re still competing with Italy for the wooden spoon in the Six Nations every year but you can see that the margins between that ‘failure’ and ‘success’ are much narrower now than in previous seasons. With a few exceptions, we’ve been competing well with the best teams in the Six Nations in most of our games. This is the best Scotland team I can remember for a while.
There are at least two key differences with our rugby and football teams. One, our rugby team has several world class players. Our pack is awesome – real power, mobility and technique – and, for the first time I can remember, we have a backline that is full of pace, nous and skill. Second, in Andy Robinson we have an experienced coach who not only understands the international game but is getting the best out of the players, they know what they should be doing and, just as importantly, they have the ability to execute their gameplan.
In football, the harsh truth is that we have no world class players and, for too many of our players, the step up to international level is clearly a step too far. Unfortunately, we have too many players grounded in the sterile SPL school of football: run aimlessly until you’re completely knackered, pass the responsibility of being in possession of the ball to somebody else (job done), and whatever you do, don’t do the simple things well.
Why do so many of our players expend so much energy trying to win back possession of the ball, when they don’t have a clue what to do with it after they’ve won it back? How many times in a game do you see one of our players receive a pass in an isolated position, then lose possession either because he can’t control the ball or because he’s under pressure from a defender? And if he does manage to hold on to possession, often his only alternative is to pass the ball back ten or twenty metres.
Our players don’t seem to be able to consistently link up with each other and work the ball forward. It always seems to be such a struggle for us to get the ball out of our own half. Too many of our players seem to lack spatial awareness, which is a basic skill on a football pitch. Look at Swansea, for example. Pretty ordinary players, but they do the simple things well and they know how to create space on a football pitch.
And someone in the Scotland set-up needs to get the James Morrison situation sorted. He’s quite a good player for West Brom (he even scores goals for them, even if he often doesn’t know when to release the ball). But when he plays for us, he’s a nervous wreck, even elementary skills seem to elude him. I can’t help thinking that Levein has got into his head in a negative way. Mind you, Levein himself is out of his depth at international level. It might be an idea, though, to give Dorrens a run. He’s got good instincts on the ball, he’s always looking to pass the ball forward and he gets in good positions. He’d link up much better with Mackie and Forrest and giving Dorrens a run might also gee-up Morrison a bit.
Although we’ve fallen behind other countries at international level, we have got the players who are capable of getting better results than this, certainly in the home games. But first, we need a manager who can get the best out of the players. At the moment, they’re being coached not to lose. That was a soft option against Serbia and Macedonia, but with that strategy against Croatia and Belgium, we’re going to be left reaching the same conclusion about Scotland that Robbie Savage has about Wales. By that stage, even a change of manager won’t save us.