stooges of the Kremlin

Wings Over Scotland


The waste disposal service

Posted on February 02, 2018 by

Alert readers may recall as far back as November, when we ran an article on a bizarre Scottish Daily Mail hatchet job which claimed that “the SNP has squandered £2bn” in its ten years in office, but only actually listed around £800m in supposed waste.

The independent press regulator IPSO is still in a great big sulking strop with us for reasons we can’t remember, so rejects any complaints that come directly from Wings, but the good thing about having a 300,000-strong army of readers is that some kind soul will usually take on the task for us.

And this one turned out to be fascinating.

We’ll give you IPSO’s official findings in full, then the summary.

So here’s what we learned in the three months it took IPSO to process and adjudicate on the complaint:

1. The Mail didn’t want to tell its readers about the three biggest items of Scottish Government expenditure that it was classing as “waste” in order to reach the headline figure of £2bn. Those three items together made up £1.2bn, or 60% of the total sum.

2. The three items were “a £402m bill for Dumfries Hospital; £425m for grants to councils for schools; and £285m NHS Scotland repayments to private firms”. In other words, the money was spent on building, maintaining and running schools and hospitals.

The paper claimed that it left the three items out because they were “complex”, presumably meaning it thought its readers were too thick to understand what schools and hospitals were.

3. Several hundred million pounds of the “SNP waste” was actually incurred by the previous Labour/Lib Dem administration, but the bills had to be paid by the subsequent SNP government because the contracts had been signed before they took office.

We don’t think most people consider money spent by governments on schools and hospitals to be “wasted”. Indeed, it might be reasonably contended that that’s exactly what people WANT their governments to be spending money on.

The Mail, however, is of course entitled to consider building hospitals and schools as a “waste” of taxpayers money. That’s a matter of opinion – we’re sure it would prefer the money to be used for tax cuts for the wealthy, and in a democracy it’s entitled to feel that way and to say so.

But the fact that it didn’t want to reveal that that was what it was doing as it tried to whip its readers into a rage is enlightening, as is the fact that IPSO has no problem with the accuracy of the Mail blaming the SNP for legally having to uphold contracts signed by the previous executive.

Now those facts are finally known, we’ll leave people to draw their own conclusions about both the integrity of the newspaper and the effectiveness of IPSO as a regulator.

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    1. 02 02 18 11:56

      The waste disposal service | speymouth

    196 to “The waste disposal service”

    1. Bobajock says:

      Chocolate teapot regulator.

      PFI. Labour. Their legacy.

    2. One_Scot says:

      I swear to God if my children have to suffer this shit, I am really gonna be pissed off.

    3. Richard Hunter says:

      Gee, I wonder why people don’t respect journalists anymore. I can’t quite tell.

    4. Fred says:

      Nice work!

    5. The unionist mail knows no bounds…..on newsstands I even look at the date of the paper to make sure its correct even that there is no certainty

    6. alexicon says:

      “The Mail, however, is of course entitled to consider building hospitals and schools as a “waste” of taxpayers money”

      Sadly the mail does see that as a waste of money.

    7. Bill not Ben says:

      Quite honestly i would never complain to the IPSO, in fact your time would be better spent writing to the man in the moon
      I wrote a complaint to an ombusman once, i should have written to my local bus driver for. at least i might have got a bit of sense out of him

    8. ClanDonald says:

      You know what’s a waste? The space taken up by the IPSO.

      And they can’t deny it either, because they just told us that any definition of waste is a matter of opinion.

    9. Bill not Ben says:

      Your time would be better spent writing to the man in the moon

    10. Bryan Weir says:

      My main concern with this shit is that the Scottish Government does nothing about it. What is wrong with them? They seem happy to allow the Daily Mail and indeed the MSM in general to lie with impunity about them.

      Why do they allow this to go on without objecting?

      Why don’t they use it to publicly ridicule the MSM.

    11. Ken MacColl says:

      Are you not being a little unfair on IPSO ?
      Anyone who has progressed beyond the early Ladybird books will know that The Scottish Daily Mail is not really a newspaper at all and should be treated accordingly.
      My Highland Granny – a kindly and tolerant old lady, ever ready to look for redeeming features in any argument,loathed this publication from back in the 1930s because of its strident support for fascism in Europe. It still, it would seem, follows an extreme right wing agenda smothered in show business tittle tattle with news manipulated to support its faded empirical vision and topped out with acres of obsequious newsprint on minor members of our burgeoning Royal family. Leave it on the shelf!

    12. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Off-Topic

      It may only be Friday, but, looking ahead, Anas Sarwar will need to do something amazingly stupid today to retain his Absolute Fanny of the Week crown.

      That FMQs performance from small Dick Leonard yesterday, and wee Wullie Rennie’s subsequent cameo will take an awful lot of beating.

      Mind you, that IPSO verdict is a strong contender for a podium place.

    13. Greg Drysdale says:

      When (and how) do we start a campaign of printing articles like this off and shoving them into local supermarket copies of the Mail?

    14. They offered to print the clarification but did they actually do it? I assume at least that did happen?

    15. Bill not Ben says:

      If your gay is your own business, but i was thinking about an english tory MP the other day, he was married with 2 kids, but a paper exposed him for being in a french hotel room with his boyfriend, a few days later, there he was with the wife and kids getting his photo taken after the shit hit the fan, ofc this gentleman, and i use the term reservedly, was allways on about family values,but you see being gay in those days did not get you elected
      Now Mr Mundell, had a wife and son, but now he has come out as a gay man in the past few years,the point is this, if any person is willing to hide their true self in order to get elected, how could you ever trust that persons honesty and integrity,and vote for them to be your MP

    16. Auld Rock says:

      Integrity – a word the yoons don’t have in their lexicon.

      ClanDonald, my dictionary gives a very good definition of ‘waste’ and if you add ‘of space’ then you get The Fail’.

    17. Calum McKay says:

      Well done!

      I am still wondering why the mail admitted fault over the flags?

      It’s out of character!

      I also wonder where the threee English papers obtained the story from?

    18. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      If nothing else, it shows what a complete waste of public money the Leveson Enquiry ended up being, with this bunch of tossers left in charge of scrutinising the Dead Tree Scrolls. (Another poisoned gift of David Cameron.)

      Oh, and illustrates perfectly yet another reason for independence: an opportunity to establish our own legal framework for the proper regulation of the media, not least in its adherence to truth. Lord knows, it will be urgently necessary.

    19. Bob Mack says:

      If we applied the same logic to legal cases it could produce some anomalies. I. E.

      “Yes my Lord, the accused did fire his gun at Mr Smith but he was horrified to find that the bullet was unexpectedly faster than Mr Smith. We submit therefore the bullet ,rather than the defendant should stand trial for failing to inform the accused of its capabilities re velocity “

    20. gus1940 says:

      We have all known for ages that complaining to The BBC is a complete waste of time.

      It would appear that complaining to IPSO is also a waste of time.

      However, although they are keeping pretty quiet about it it was announced recently that our Darling Duds Of May are setting up an organisation to police Fake News.

      The intention seems to be that it will only deal with alleged Fake News propagated on Social Media but not the print and broadcast media.

      I don’t think that, once we know how to contact this body, it will stop Wingers and other campaigners for the truth directing complaints in their direction about the Fake News and assorted lies, threats, misreporting, non-reporting and general Britnat propaganda that fills the print and broadcast media.

      A suitable deluge of complaints directed to them should keep them busy and it will be interesting to see their response which will inevitably be that it is not their responsibility to deal with such complaints.

      That should not stop us from clogging up their works.

    21. Flower of Scotland says:

      Great work again Rev!

      We do not have any Scottish newspapers except the Courier and that’s Unionist, so the papers and their regulators can say or do anything they like against Scotland and it’s Government.

      As a wee guy from London said on twitter, “Scotland is part of England” and we are sick of you moaning!

    22. winifred mcartney says:

      The mail only came out with apology over flagate because the Queen was mentioned as having given permission and they would not go up against the Queen.

    23. jfngw says:

      IPSO is saying newspapers can make up pretty much any shit they want and it is OK by them. You can only really get redress from the MSM if you are already rich, it’s a organisation to maintain the supposed integrity of the top echelons.

    24. Robert Graham says:

      BBC in Scotland – regulator NFU

      Press regulator – again NFU

      Attacks on a freely elected scottish government – Compulsory

      Truth in any items the scottish media proclaim Ha Ha DBFS

      NFU does not in this case refer to the National Farmers Union , and DBFS is Don’t Be F/n Stupid , Porridge – Bowl – Eat It Mugs .

    25. Robert Graham says:

      billnotben –

      I wonder what our esteemed media are holding back about fluffy indeed the artical known as Davidson i bet some really embarrassing stuff is being wilfully covered up about these characters .

    26. .Clootie says:

      IPSO are just anther tool to give back up to “journalists” printing propaganda in Scotland.
      IPSO, BBC, MSM…they all have the same puppet master.

    27. jfngw says:

      Have I lost trust in most of the media outlets? Let’s just say that if I have a look at a newspaper on sale and it says it’s Tuesday I check online just to make sure.

    28. harry mcaye says:

      I live in Hamilton, a traditional Labour working class town. The number of pensioners I see buying this right wing shite is astonishing. I’m not here to tar all over 60s with the same brush, I know many of our most dedicated yessers are of that age, but, honestly, what is it with these people? How do we get through to them? Will a flyer printed from indyposterboy’s range have any effect? Will it get read or go straight in the bin when they see which side it’s from? I feel like screaming when I see them in the queue in front of me or walking up the street with one under the arm.

      Maybe the men just buy it for the sport or the racing or the crossword. Maybe the women buy it for the columnists or the showbiz (Oops, sexist and ageist in one fell swoop!) Or maybe just maybe it really does chime with their world view and they are right wing conservatives. We don’t need everybody’s vote but if we don’t make some inroads with the over 60s I think we are going to be faced with another loss and that will be that until the independence supporting youth get a bit older and have kids of their own.

    29. jfngw says:

      At FMQ’s when Davidson says she can achieve savings through efficiencies this means privatisation and outsourcing. The return of private cleaners in hospital wards, sale of hospital car parks and reintroduction of charges are a couple of examples.

      The only thing she could achieve is WM pumping money in to make it look like the Tories are successful in Scotland. Of course this will be short lived, just until they can change the devolution agreement and make it impossible to have another referendum.

    30. cubby says:

      The old saying that there are 2 constants in life – taxes and death – needs updating for Scotland to include – British Nationalists will always lie and oil fields will keep being found.

    31. artyhetty says:

      It’s amazing to think that the lying right wing, British nationalist daily rags, and the disgusting British nationalist bbc, can basically say what they like and get away with it, in UKOK in 2018. The war on Scotland, by the so called media reminds me of the war on countries like Venezuela by whatever means possible, and now with talk of arresting and locking up their democratically elected leader. Rajoy has a hand in all of that.

      The people of Scotland are by and large, immune now to the constant onslaught of lies about their democratically elected government. We must get out of the so called UK before Brexit, otherwise with the UKOK as a mirror image of the US, we are in real deep water. The rEU will be able to do nothing whatever about it, and England has much to lose.

      Meanwhile, the SNP, are actually getting on with the ‘day job’. What Scotland would be like now had a British nationalist party been in the driving seat at Holyrood for the past 10 yrs hardly bares thinking about.

    32. Jimbo says:

      Asking IPSO to investigate the press is tantamount to asking a member of a criminal gang to investigate one of his cronies.

      “You can judge Ipso’s independence in many ways – but start with Paul Dacre, the Daily Mail editor, who is in charge of its editors’ code of practice committee, which writes the editors’ code.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/10/press-regulator-ipso-pcc-rupert-murdoch

    33. Proud Cybernat says:

      From Twitter…

      John Swinney?Verified account
      @JohnSwinney

      David Mundell is wrong. There is NOT general agreement on the amendments required. @BBCGaryR

    34. Davidson stood at the Despatch Box yesterday and announced that she would give more money to the rich, and that the £500 million which this would take out of the budget to pay for schools, hospitals, public services and wages to nurses, care workers and doctors would be recouped in some future Blue Tory heaven, modelled of course on the meltdown happening now in her Motherland England,by cutting SNP ‘waste’, ‘efficiencies’ applied to our Public Services, and ‘growing the economy’.
      This woman is an idiot. She laughs maniacally at the podium, and her placemat Listory Boys applaud her insane outbursts on cue.
      That other Dick, ‘The Scarf’ Leonard defies credibility. His tenure as leader of the Branch Office will be numbered in hours. Anas, get your inauguration suit out of mothballs.
      The time is now right when the lily livered white Folk of the Branch Office will shoo in a ‘Brown Paki Muslim’.
      How any decent person supports the Red Tories Up Here beats me.
      Willie Rennie and Rumbles, Bumbles, Mumbles, and Crumbles, use up oxygen for no apparent reason.
      The Rise and Fall of the Yoon Empire. It is good to be alive when it finally implodes and leaves us all in peace.
      Stu, double your security detail.
      It’s fast approaching:- ‘And then they came for me’ time.
      Can you feel it?
      Check out Gary Robertson’s mauling of Mundell on BBC GMS this morning.
      Mundell has snapped completely now.

    35. Dan Huil says:

      Excellent work by the Rev and Alert Reader. It is now beyond any shadow of doubt that the britnat media is 100% anti-Scottish. The incestuous relationship between the britnat press and britnat television continues.

      Thankfully britnat newspapers are experiencing a decrease in sales but, like harry macaye above, I do have some concerns about some people still believing the britnat lies the press peddles. I also, however, think more and more folk are, thanks to the internet, questioning these britnat lies.

      The tide of events is with us. Scotland will regain its independence, regardless of media lies.

    36. Street Andrew says:

      Can anybody suggest the name of a regulator that actually does regulate in the public interest?

      Most seem to regard it as their responsibility to protect the industry from citicism, whilst providing well paid positions to retired senior officers or board members.

      I think it’s high tome we had a government regulator of the regulator industry. I suggest we might call it OffUK.

    37. Dr Jim says:

      Mundells new role is Secretary of state for standing there

    38. Street Andrew says:

      Don’t you get bored, Rev ? The bullshit is now so open it’s the main thrust of the story these days. No longer do we have to bother to look for biased innuendo, or subtle distortion. It’s in the headline.

      If you really like a challenge, how about trying to find a true or accurate story next week.

      Bet you can’t find one.

    39. Hamish100 says:

      ot

      thicko unite trade union rep shouting to radio bbc shortbread for the Scottish Government to get the finger out over carillion.

      As an ex UNITE REP — (MANY UNHAPPY MEMORIES of boring numb crunching discussions at John Smith House saying how wee are too small etc) could the bbc announcer not mention that the main responsibilty for such rules and regs lie with the UK government. Of course not.

    40. Dr Jim says:

      We must keep mocking them, belittling them and demeaning them
      exactly what they’ve done to Scotland for hundreds of years
      show them up as the public embarrassments they are, make it clear they’re not wanted and make sure we’re not polite about it

      Politeness is for politicians who get paid to be diplomatic
      nobody pays us for our principles nor should we allow them to try and buy them

    41. Indy2 says:

      Fluffy Mundell is nothing more than a pathetic “bag carrier” for his London Masters.

      He is a wee crawlin’ disgusting drip of a human being.

    42. I suspect the Mail would like see all public services outsourced and delivered by its friends in the private sector.

      Thereby allowing the obscenely rich to become even wealthier at the expense of the poor and disadvantaged.

    43. Fred says:

      Guys buy the Record for the racing & the Mail was bought as there were no “tits” in it!

    44. Tackety Beets says:

      Someone on here used the term/ title

      “Dick Head of Scottish Labour” on the day he was voted in.

      He definitely deserves the Title , surely ?

    45. Meg merrilees says:

      Brilliant article again, Rev. You’re on fire in 2018.

      Socrates – you made me spit ma tea out re Anas Sarwar!

      Calum Mackay – aye, why did the mail apologise and have any of the others come up with their apology yet?

      Harry Mcaye
      My sister buys the mail every day – she says she buys it for the Femail section which has interesting information.
      But:
      my brother-in-law reads it very day for the sport ( my sister keeps hold of it and regularly reads it about a week out of date!!) and since 2014 they have gone from voting YES to not voting in the Council ( then SNP) and General elections. As a result they have a Tory council, Tory MP and they don’t like the proposed cuts heading their way, plus they voted LEAVE because of immigration (- in Angus??? ) despite the fact that the partner of one of their children is Scottish/Asian.

    46. HandandShrimp says:

      IPSO is a complete waste of space. Not as big a waste of space as the Daily Heil but a waste of space nonetheless.

      We should perhaps make IPSO work a lot harder.

    47. Dan Huil says:

      Boycott all britnat media.

    48. mike cassidy says:

      Clearly a case of IPSO NONFACTO.

    49. meg merrilees says:

      link to Gary robertson interview with Mundell this a.m.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05wwc0y

      I got the link via Gary’s twitter account and surprisingly, was allowed to listen to it without having to sign in.

      https://twitter.com/BBCGaryR

    50. Iain says:

      Roll on the day when Scotland is free of the nazi rag,the bbc , and all the other instruments of empire oppression.
      Everyone on this site who believes in freedom should take heart that that date is near.
      The torY’s are hopelessly split over Brexit, and their media is growing more irrelevant every day.

    51. Arbroath1320 says:

      So, according to the Daily Mail the idea that the Scottish Government spent £402m bill for Dumfries Hospital is a waste of money.

      Hmm…

      I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess that the Dumfries hospital in question would be the NEW D.G.R.I. I assume and the £402 Million would be the cash input into building the NEW hospital as part of the arrangement with the E.U. (hated with a vengeance by the Mail ) to secure E.U. funding to build this NEW hospital.

      Bill not Ben says:

      Now Mr Mundell, had a wife and son, but now he has come out as a gay man in the past few years,the point is this, if any person is willing to hide their true self in order to get elected, how could you ever trust that persons honesty and integrity,and vote for them to be your MP

      As everyone on here knows BnB I am the LAST person to defend Scruffy Fluffy on here or anywhere else for that matter. However, I must point out that being gay is never easy. Whether you are gay,lesbian,transgendered or anything else you are on your own. Well at least you WERE on your own. You had to struggle through every day behaving like someone you clearly were not. However trying to deal with this alleged “problem” is almost impossible to describe to someone who has not encountered the problem themselves and the person with the “problem” is left to stumble around in the dark until at some point in their life they see the light of help and hope.

      In today’s society life for someone who is gay/Lesbian/transgendered is a lot easier than ever before. I am not saying they have the life of Riley FAR from it but at least in today’s world they can “come out” without the same level of fear they would have had years ago, there are help and support groups across the country nowadays that were not around years ago.

      I totally disagree about your point how could you ever trust that persons honesty and integrity,and vote for them to be your MP. Despite what I have said above thoser individuals who go through the rituals of living as others expect them to live, get married have kids etc, but are gay etc are now in probably a worse situation. They are gay etc and want to “come out” but they are now torn between being their TRUE self and remaining in a life that is a lie to them for the sake of the love that they still have for their marriage partner, kids, family and friends.

      I would just like to say BnB that when you read about politicians (in this case) “coming out” as gay etc please give a thought to the fears, dreadings and utter turmoil they have gone through up till the point they “came out.” No one does this on a whim. Every day someone who is gay etc stays in a marriage they are in utter turmoil. Eventually something has to give and it will usually be the marriage. In a lot of cases though after “coming out” they find that their family and TRUE friends will stand by them. They all recognise how difficult it has been for the individual concerned.

      sorry folks

      rant over 😉

    52. Bob Mack says:

      As an aside I see Question Time is under scrutiny re comments from an impartial rabid Brexiteer,actually turned out to be from an actor who was hired by the production company. Oh dear.

      Truth from media ? In some countries perhaps. Not this one.

    53. K1 says:

      Waffling pish from Mundell. We can expect nothing coherent and transparent from Westminster’s man in Scotland. Gary, credit where it’s due went after him robustly, even the audible sighs from him show the frustration of dealing with and listening to the obfuscation and downright mind numbing repeat and rinse from the fluffster.

    54. Capella says:

      I think we’ve established beyond reasonable doubt that those complaint channels are simply a means of draining off the energy of people who resent the lies.

      I admit I haven’t followed up my complaint to the BBC about Sarah Smith’s blatant lie (presenting annual hospital waiting figures as the Xmas period totals). They replied pointing out that she had corrected herself on the BBC complaint site and apologised on social media. Neither of these are read by the type of people who watch BBC news.

      I could submit a follow up complaint. They have a month to respond. If still not happy, I could submit another one to a higher echelon in the BBC. More months go by. Finally, I MAY be able to complain to OFCOM.

      We need to find an alternative to these whitewashing procedures. This blog does its best but doesn’t reach the people who swallow everything they hear and see in the MSM. Exposing the lies is a full time job for somebody. Perhaps a Scottish Government Press and Broadcasting commissar would be useful.

    55. Capella says:

      @ Arbroath 1320 – well said. Needed saying. I trust BnB did not intend to offend.

    56. Arbroath1320 says:

      Thanks for that Capella.

      I din’t mean to go on for so long but there are times when I feel that things need to be said to help others understand a particular situation. Unfortunately for BnB I let rip having gone through something similar 25 plus years ago. It was extremely hard and hurtful but thanks to my partner who as it turned out was also going through the same “process” we have both survived and become stronger for it. In fact my partner was married at the time and her family are still close with us today.

    57. Proud Cybernat says:

      Fair play to Gary Robertson – he gave Mundell a bit of a hard time though could have been a bit more tenacious on a couple of his questions and allowed Mundell to wander off the question into waffle once or twice. Otherwise, no’ bad Gary.

      Now stop shielding Rooth the Mooth and get her to answer those questions.

    58. Pentland Firth says:

      If folk see anyone carrying a Daily Mail (or Express), they should just point at the propaganda sheet (spelling?), laugh loudly, and ask politely, but with a mocking smile, “Did you really pay for that?”

    59. Bob Mack says:

      Ancient wisdom can still serve us today. I am not very religious by the way.The dilemma between Westminster rule and Holyrood rule is defined in ancient texts of the Bible and also the Quoran. It states:

      “No man can serve two masters. He will love one and hate the other. He will be devoted to one and despise the other”.

      That essentially is what we have right now. That very situation, with the media on the side of one against the other

      I cannot serve two masters the way the country is run today, therefore I have made the choice and I feel better for it.

      We shall be liberated.

    60. yesindyref2 says:

      Expecting the press to regulate itself is kind of like expecting IPSO maniacs to regulate their own drink supply.

    61. Robert Graham says:

      Despite some comments Nothing absolutely Nothing is off limits regarding Fluffy or Davidson ,

      These two articals deserve every single indiscretion be presented to the public who they ask for support at every election .

      Being nice hasn’t worked , you just get walked over , waken up folks . These torags dont respect NICE ,to them it is a sign of weakness .

    62. geeo says:

      @bob mack.

      Was that the swivel eyed loony who got to have a shouty rant TWICE last night ?

      An actual chair would tell people if they shout out without being brought in by the chair, they would not be selected to talk.
      Obviously if you are pre selecting/paying folk to do so, that could be more tricky…

    63. wee bud says:

      I listened to a bit of Radio Shiteland for my sins this morning.. The phone in subject was mobile phone coverage or lack of.. A reserved matter but didn’t stop the “expert” informing us to contact our Msp’s and the Scottish government to complain..

      Most contributors had examples of countries with far superior coverage.. Norway,Switzerland,Ireland and even Cambodia.. All vibrant independent nations of course but who wants to draw attention to that fact..

      Seems Scotland has the worst coverage on these islands and we will probably have to wait for the SNP to fix that.. No Tories on to justify their position but would be happy to be on if it was a SNP bad story..

      I know I shouldn’t listen but we are restricted with radio stations here and it was either that or Chris Evans.. Would peeve me off if I paid the license fee..

    64. geeo says:

      Thanks for that link to mundell’s stumblebum interview, Meg Merrilees.

      Never fails to deliver utter drivel, every time he opens his gob.
      …….

      Came across this earlier, bit forward planning by SG on having a Scots court affirming Sovereignty of the people, perhaps ?

      “Scottish court to decide early next week on legal case to stop Brexit” – http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-article50/scottish-court-to-decide-early-next-week-on-legal-case-to-stop-brexit-idUKKBN1FM1DZ

    65. Bob Mack says:

      @Geeo,

      Yep that was him.Hired by the production company apparently.
      The same one that busses up audience members from down South to flood Question time shows in Scotland

    66. geeo says:

      My reading of that case, linked in my last post is that, if a Scots court bumps the question, “can brexit be stopped at any stage” up to the ECJ and then THEY say that, Yes, it can be stopped at any time, then surely that opens the legal route (to the ECJ) for the SG to claim the Sovereign People of Scotland REJECTED Brexit last June so should have the legal right to avoid Brexit ?

      Therefore, by CHOOSING to continue with Brexit when they (WM) have a LEGALLY SOUND option to stop Brexit and avoid devastating the Scottish economy against our Sovereign will, we can surely argue, that Scots are being subjugated by WM, contrary to the Act and Treaties of union themselves ?

      One for Mr Peffers to look over maybe (hint hint!)

    67. geeo says:

      Cheers Bob, funny how it is now easy to spot the BBC audience plants on QT..The Rev has trained us well..lol

    68. Arbroath1320 says:

      Here’s hoping geeo that the court does the right thing and bumps the case up to the ECJ and THEY do as you suggest.

      London centric media will go full on apeshit. Get your full anti Britnat protective gear looked out folks. There is, I believe, a full blown Tornadoes worth of shite heading our way in the next few months. 😀

    69. Brian Powell says:

      I believe that the Johnston Group (Scotsman) has had a 5% fall in sales,profits this year.

      Johnston group are getting around 35 journalists paid for by the BBC. It occurred to me that as news papers in that group are staunchly anti-Independence, isn’t the BBC breaking its Charter by funding a political stance?

    70. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just another wee thought here geeo/Mr Peffers. 😉

      Therefore, by CHOOSING to continue with Brexit when they (WM) have a LEGALLY SOUND option to stop Brexit and avoid devastating the Scottish economy against our Sovereign will, we can surely argue, that Scots are being subjugated by WM, contrary to the Act and Treaties of union themselves ?

      I agree with geeo on this and am thinking that if this IS a correct evaluation of the possible ECJ outcome then we could possibly be in a situation where Westminster had knowingly BROKEN the terms of the Treaties of Union. They will in fact have kicked Scotland out of the union by THEIR own incompetence.

    71. It just goes on and on more lies and it also goes on and on the SNP doing nothing about it as I said yesterday to do nothing is to condone it it is like abstaining in a vote choosing to have no say about the matter while the people of Scotland are being lied to and they are being lied to about you their government please do something

    72. Glamaig says:

      Brian Powell says:
      2 February, 2018 at 3:36 pm
      isn’t the BBC breaking its Charter by funding a political stance?

      I think so too. And are they allowed to use license-payers money to subsidise private businesses?

    73. Capella says:

      Don’t waste time and blood pressure listening to R Scotland. Here’s an interview with Chris Hedges by Abby Martin of Tele Sur. “Propaganda Buries Facts and Manipulates Emotions”. 30 mins
      Describes the take over of America by the oligarchs and warmongers. Like here.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaQXPV9vCWw

    74. Bob Mack says:

      @Blair Paterson,

      What in reality can they do ? They are not invited on shows to offer rebuttal. They are not quoted in the media. They only have social media and occasional newsletters.

      Now if we had a proper Scottish TV station that would help, but it would cost money the SNP simply do not have. Millions of pounds. The same applies to newspapers who are currently being propped up by Westminster via allocations of money and reporters from the BBC.

      We only have what is available to us, it really does come down to fighting in the trenches,done by you and me and all the other indy supporters.

      They have guns whilst we have forks.That does not mean certain defeat though,if we choose our battleground well enough.

    75. Graeme says:

      Blair Paterson says:
      2 February, 2018 at 3:41 pm

      “It just goes on and on more lies and it also goes on and on the SNP doing nothing about it as I said yesterday to do nothing is to condone it it is like abstaining in a vote choosing to have no say about the matter while the people of Scotland are being lied to and they are being lied to about you their government please do something”

      ——————————————————————

      What do you want them to do Blair?

      If they openly attack the press they’re accused of bullying or censorship, they can often force an apology but all they get is a wee grudging correction on some obscure page nobody looks at so what’s the point.

      Sites like this one does a great job but most of it’s readers are already well aware of the lies they print.

      I agree something needs to be done but the question is what and by whom

    76. geeo says:

      Blair Paterson was told several times why the SG will not play “SNP BAD” ‘whack-a-mole’.

      He is a member of the coco club.

    77. Dr Jim says:

      The Scottish government have to deal with the English government politically
      It’s up to us to destroy them verbally, we don’t need to be politically correct

    78. yesindyref2 says:

      @geeo
      They’re all members of Monty Lieathon’s Crying Circus.

    79. Juan says:

      The Daily Heil’s headline would’ve been more accurate as, “311 years of thievery and occupation”.

    80. Referendum1707 says:

      “I agree something needs to be done but the question is what and by whom”.

      There’s no big “question” or mystery about it. What would any independence movement do when they have no access to the colonists mainstream tv or press?

      Assuming they’re not going to be shot in the streets they’d organise crowdfunded billboard and leafleting campaigns and maybe a series of full page ads in certain newspapers.

      The Rev had posters up in Glasgow subways a while back, the red tory admin at the time banned them after they realised the effect they could have.

      As I understand it there’s now an SNP admin in Glasgow so there shouldn’t be any reason why something similar couldn’t be done now.

      To boost support for indy you have to get the facts and the truth into the general public’s face any way you can. Moaning about how the msm won’t give you an even break isn’t one of them. An online presence is vital and influential but not enough on its own to break the bottleneck.

      Also WBB 2.0 with twice as many copies printed and distributed as last time could and probably would make a big difference too.

      So who’s up for it? Who would be interested in seeing about starting to get it off the ground? Got to go out just now but I’ll check back here tomorrow to see if anyone has anything to say about it.

    81. Graeme says:

      I’ve heard a lot of folk on here talking about how do we get more people reading Wings and it occurred to me that maybe if we offered a different format we might get the message out to more people and what I mean by that is something like a Weekly podcast highlighting Wings articles throughout the week. A kind of Wings Over Scotland Weekly Roundup.

      Obviously it would require one or two people with presentation skills and decent hardware but that could be crowdfunded and there’s plenty of free software available it can be done and it doesn’t have to cost a lot.

      ie I’m a Linux enthusiast and watch a few very good Linux podcasts produced by amateurs and they’re very high quality and almost all running free software.

      These podcasts could be shared on Facebook youtube and other social media sites and might reach an audience we wouldn’t otherwise reach.

      Anyway it’s just an idea that’s been going round in my head for a while now and thought I’d put it out there

    82. mike cassidy says:

      OT

      Don’t remember anybody predicting this classic bit of brexit blowback.

      Ouch!

      http://archive.is/i9BR2

    83. Black Joan says:

      IPSO is clearly a totally galactic waste of space, bowing down before the Daily Hate Mail like that.

      I assume that the schools and Dumfries hospital (on time, on budget, I believe, and in line for a building award) were omitted from the original piece of fiction because even the Mail reckons that some of its readers would experience a flicker of doubt about such a definition of “waste”.

      But, if IPSO hadn’t declared the Heil entirely innocent of any falsehood, the rag would indeed have been more than happy to publish that disingenuous “correction”.

      The brevity and piety of the weasel-worded “correction” would further mislead readers into thinking there actually had been some evidence of “waste”, without the inconvenience of having to explain what or why.

      Job done for a second time, courtesy of IPSO. Another SNP-Bad lie planted, and all in the guise of a hand-wringing apology.

    84. Effijy says:

      Completely takes my breath away!

      The Daily Hail being an out and out Fascist Propaganda Pamphlet
      getting away with the complete and utter distortion of anything related to the truth by their Tory parasite chums at IPSO.

      IPSO,just like the BBC are just well paid puppets of the wealthy who control all media outlets and the Westminster Government.

      Is it worth creating a petition for 100,000 of us to sign demanding fraudsters who produce completely unfounded rulings like this are closed down?

      The Media and MPs can lie, cheat and distort as much as the like,
      if its going to keep Scottish Voters missing the point that they have the best government ever in the SNP.

      The things they need to do to keep Scotland’s money rolling into their own coffers.

    85. heedtracker says:

      Awful shitrag. The Heil creeps offer IPSO a page 2 publication of clarification that does list Dumfries Hospital and council grants for school as waste but so what?

      This is what neo fascism does in the UK, lie their tory arses off, then, well look at Nic Robinson and his astonishing 2014 nationwide beeb gimp lies about Alex Salmond, a year afterwards,

      Eveningtimes

      My_regret_over_Salmond_

      14 Aug 2015 – THE BBC’s outgoing political editor has defended his reporting of the referendum campaign, while admitting that the controversial phrasing of a news item that caused a row with Alex Salmond “wasn’t good”. Nick Robinson, who is leaving his role to present Radio 4’s Today Programme, said he “agonised” …

      You can do this all day on UKOK hackdom, the most corrupt media in any western democracy.

    86. yesindyref2 says:

      Seriously though, this is the right thing to do. Alert Reader complains to IPSO, IPSO replies, and both offending article and IPSO’s reply are subjected to scrutiny and publication by Wings and others.

      The scrutineers are being scrutinised. I leave it to others to mess abround changing u to o and i to u and n to m 🙂

    87. Juan says:

      Regarding the Reuters article:
      “LONDON (Reuters) – A Scottish judge will decide early next week whether to refer to the European Court of Justice a case questioning if Britain alone can change its mind about leaving the European Union, a spokesman for Scotland’s Court of Session said on Friday.

      The case, brought by a group of pro-EU lawmakers, is aimed at giving Britain the option of staying in the world’s biggest trading bloc once it is known what Brexit actually means for the economy and politics.”
      This doesn’t appear to have anything to do with Scots voting Remain, Scots Sovereignty or even the inbuilt inequality and undemocratic nature of the “Union”. It appears to be “lawmakers”(politicians?)in Scotland testing the waters to see if the UK /”Britain” can unilaterally quit the process of leaving of the EU.
      I can see this being refused by ECJ. My understanding is that once A50 has been started then we will leave 2 years later. This has been repeatedly stated by various EU officials, even during the transitional period the UK will not be a member and not have a veto or input into EU legislation etc.
      Are they No Voting “lawmakers” who voted Remain?

    88. Gary45% says:

      Cheers Stu,
      What’s the legal situation on, me going into my local supermarket/newsagents and destroying the Mail on a daily basis? could I use the defence of “stopping lies on an industrial scale being forced on the general public”.
      Or is just safer to hide the bastard gutter rag under other gutter rags?

    89. Robert Peffers says:

      Well I have to conclude that having a regulator that fails to regulate and is, furthermore, quite obviously biased is a waste of resources and a waste of time of any members of the public bother reading any IPSO decisions.

      Toothless!
      Pointless!
      Useless!

      IPSO seem to believe their job is to pass fake news as not actually being fake. Bear in mind they are a body funded by the publishers who they are supposed to be regulating – and I quote from their own webpage:-

      “How is IPSO funded?

      IPSO is financed by the Regulatory Funding Company (RFC) which is funded by member publications. IPSO carries out its work separately and completely independently from its members”

      Independent?

      Aye!
      That’ll be richt!

    90. galamcennalath says:

      mike cassidy says:

      Don’t remember anybody predicting this classic bit of brexit blowback.

      Interesting.

      ” Ireland was being asked to surrender an EU citizen to a country where the EU charter of fundamental rights might no longer be capable of enforcement. “

      It is completely logical, though.

      Why would any EU country hand over one of its citizens to a third party state where the standards of civil rights are potentially much lower?

      The stated aim of Brexit is to sweep aside all those EU ‘impediments’ to business such as folks’ fundamental human rights!

      Perhaps this will focus minds on what Brexit is really all about – moving towards a rather unpleasant UK for most folks.

    91. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Juan @ 17:48:

      My understanding is that once A50 has been started then we will leave 2 years later. This has been repeatedly stated by various EU officials

      With all due respect, your understanding (or indeed mine) doesn’t matter a whit! More importantly, neither does the “understanding” of the European Commission from Juncker on down.

      It’s only when a judgement is made by the ECJ that matters are put on a firm legal footing. That’s the definitive opinion, the only one that really counts.

      We have been plagued over recent years by statements from various individuals who have their own axes to grind, not least J-M Barroso, about what they assert about some aspect or other of EU treaties, but none have any legal standing whatsoever.

      Since national governments have been more than happy to leave such matters unexplored, it’s high time that somebody or another should bother (and be willing to incur the legal costs) to test the law.

      And if such challenges further confuddle the Mayhem Gang in London, and in full public view to boot, what’s not to like…? =grin=

    92. Iain says:

      I hate the yoons like jack mc Connel and rags like the daily mail with a vengeance, based on they did not think Scotland needed a hospital like the upgraded Southern General (queen elizabeth) and without that hospital and it’s staff I would be be dead. (Sometimes politics gets personal).

    93. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS: “It’s only when a judgement is made by the ECJ that matters are put on a firm legal footing. That’s the definitive opinion, the only one that really counts.

      They wouldn’t be pro-active however, they would only have the remit if someone took a case to court, and they deemed the case competent of hearing.

    94. galamcennalath says:

      News and journalism should be pretty easy. Simple techniques which many have actually mastered through the years …

      1 write understandable English
      2 research topics
      3 double check stories handed to you
      4 have facts to back up your claims
      5 inform readers
      6 hold power to account
      7 tell the truth as you find it

      … but then there are paid propagandists and purveyors of misinformation …

      1 write muddled text to confuse
      2 make stories up
      3 simply regurgitate what you are given
      4 don’t let facts get in your way
      5 misinform readers
      6 act on behalf of one group against another
      7 truth should be irrelevant

      … no one should confuse the two distinct roles. IPSO clearly does.

    95. Luigi says:

      The politicians who are currently concerned about all the “fake news” circulating in social media have never, ever had a problem with the rubbish spouted on a daily basis by the Mail, Express, Telegraph (and the rest of that shower).

      Funny that. 🙂

    96. Peri Urban says:

      Why breathe life into these lies? What good does it do to amplify them? Much better to make our case as you did so eloquently and effectively with the Wee Blue Book, and many other excellent posts.

      You seem to be getting a nice wee dopamine hit from all the traffic you get and all the (deserved) support, but you are wasting opportunities on a daily basis.

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      @Peri Urban
      From the about page:

      https://wingsoverscotland.com/about/

      Wings Over Scotland is a Scottish political website, which focuses particularly on the media – whether mainstream print and broadcast organisations or the online and social-network community – as well as offering its own commentary and analysis.” (my bold)

      It’s doing what it says it’ll do!

    98. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      yesindyref2 @ 18:46,

      True. (More’s the pity.) That was implicit in my comment, I think. All the more necessary then that someone with resources should begin to challenge some of the guff that’s been bruited around these last few years.

      I still think (FWIW) that the same should be done in regard to the constitutional requirement of Art.50 and the potential violation of the now-established constitutional principle that “all matters not reserved are devolved”.

      But maybe that’s still coming.

      (Oh, and for the slack thinkers, this is not the same as the Sewell Convention, which relates to the agreed exchange in either direction of existing powers between UKGov and SG. The Withdrawal Bill as it stands instead threatens to unilaterally re-arrange those powers (generally in favour of UKGov, surprise, surprise!), which is a far more fundamental – ie. constitutional – matter.)

    99. heedtracker says:

      You seem to be getting a nice wee dopamine hit from all the traffic you get and all the (deserved) support, but you are wasting opportunities on a daily basis.”

      Well what are you doing Peri Urban, exactly, or roughly?

      Freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom to not buy their daily fraud etc…

    100. yesindyref2 says:

      It’s really very simple.

      The Unionist MSM write some nonsense.
      The Rev analyses it and pulls it to pieces
      Someone complains to IPSO about something, IPSO respond
      The Rev analyses it and pulls it to pieces
      Some btl posters analsyse the Rev and pull him to pieces
      The Rev analyses it and pulls it to pieces
      Some btl posters reanalsyse the Rev and pull him to pieces
      Some btl posters analyse those btl posters and pull them to pieces
      Some btl posters disagree

      What’s not to like?

    101. yesindyref2 says:

      @RJS
      Indeed. I think most of us generally trust the SNP including Sturgeon to be working to plan, handling all things along the way in a sensible fashion, but it doesn’t stop us watching them with a hawk eye. Nor does it stop anyone doing our own thing within the Law, though hopefully not creating a distraction to the main plan.

      It’s a dawdle!

      Meanwhile, table 8 of the data files of that survation poll – the table WITH don’t knows – shows that for the Independence question , there are now only 48.7% NOes, less than half, the rest are YES, undecided and a few refused to say – obviously a YES 🙂

    102. Petra says:

      “The independent Press regulator IPSO is still in a great big sulking strop with us for reasons we can’t remember….”

      They’re in a great big sulking strop with you Stu because you’re doing the job that they’re supposed to be doing and in the process giving them a showing up.

      As to them being independent, you can forget that one as they’re clearly just part of the Establishment network with a key objective of watching each other’s backs.

    103. galamcennalath says:

      Re case to get definitive answer from ECJ on cancelling Brexit …

      Note what the lawyer for the Tories argued – Brexit will definitely not be cancelled so courts shouldn’t address totally hypothetical situations.

      What worries them is there will be one or two votes passing judgement on the final deal. One in WM almost certainly, and maybe one in the wider electorate. They want to be certain the vote(s) will be a pointless Deal versus Leave with no Deal.

      If the ECJ say WM can simply cancel Brexit, then there will be huge pressure for votes to be a meaningful Deal versus Cancel Brexit.

      That terrifies all Brexiteers, hard to soft.

    104. Ian McCubbin says:

      Same old PFI story of best game in town subscribed to by Labour and Libs and SNP having to pay the price. It will continue for 30 plus years too. All of this to save on deficits by not taking out local authority bonds. It was reckless in the extreme.

    105. Robert Peffers says:

      @Bryan Weir says: 2 February, 2018 at 11:12 am:

      “My main concern with this shit is that the Scottish Government does nothing about it. What is wrong with them?”

      Wow! The SNP BAAAAD lot quick of the mark today!

      “They seem happy to allow the Daily Mail and indeed the MSM in general to lie with impunity about them.”

      Why ever would they want to do anything about them, Bryan?
      The Mail is probably one of the best recruiting sergeants that the SNP have. All you need to do to prove the truth behind that is to stravaig, (saunter), past your local newsagent of an evening and you will leuk til,(observe), a muckle boytach, (large bundle), of unsold copies of the Mail for return as unsold.

      Now, I may be wrong but it most certainly seems the Mail is the least popular daily in Scotland.

      “Why do they allow this to go on without objecting?
      Why don’t they use it to publicly ridicule the MSM.”

      As I’m pointing out The Mail is obviously failing to make much impression upon the people of Scotland and the likes of the BBC who report their headlines only serves to highlight just how desperate the YoonYoonists have become.

      Never forget the maxim of Napoleon to his marshals on the battlefield, “Never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake”.

      In any event the fact is that, in spite of the constant unionist mantras of sheep-like bleats of, “SNP BAAAD!”, there continues a slow but inexorable advance in the opinion polls for Scottish independence.

      I am perhaps wrong but I believe the Yoons will have lost their momentum and when the YES movement does begin a push for independence the Yoons will have shot their bolt and have nothing left to use as ammo.

      More battles have been lost because of hasty attacks than have been lost by well though out and executed attacks.

      Ever read an account of the Battle of Old Bylands, Bryan?

      Here’s a brief account:-

      “Bruce had crossed the Solway and was making his way south-easterly towards Yorkshire. Importantly many of the Scots troops were recruited from Argyll and the Isles. The boldness and speed of the attack left King Edward II in great danger within his own Kingdom of England.

      On returning from Scotland Edward took up residence at Rievaulx Abbey with Queen Isabella. His sojourn at the abbey was disturbed when Bruce made a sudden, unexpected approach in mid-October. However, standing between the Scots and an English royal prize was a quite large English army commanded of John of Brittany, (The Earl of Richmond).

      Richmond had taken up a strong position on very high ground on Scawton Moor, (between Rievaulx and Byland Abbey). Bruce used the same tactics that brought victory at the earlier Battle of The Pass of Brander. While Moray and Douglas risked the danger of a charge against the English up the steep hill a party of Highlanders scaled the cliffs on the English flank and charged downhill into Richmond’s rear.

      English resistance crumbled and the Battle of Old Byland turned into a rout of the English. Richmond was taken prisoner, as were Henry de Sully, Grand Butler of France, Sir Ralph Cobham-‘the best knight in England’-and Sir Thomas Ughtred. Many others were killed in flight.

      Edward, claimed to be, “Ever chicken hearted and luckless in war”, made a rapid, undignified forced exit from Rievaulx. In such haste that he abandoned his own personal belongings.

      Sir Thomas Gray said that, after Bylands, the Scots were so fierce and their chiefs so daring, (and the English so cowed and crestfallen, “That it was no otherwise between them than as a hare before greyhounds”.

    106. Dan Huil says:

      I see the rabiddest of rabid Britnats, John McTernan, has confidently proclaimed the bridge between Scotland and Ireland will never be built.

      Book your tickets for the opening now!

    107. stewartb says:

      Arbroath1320 @ 2:02 pm

      Re- your response to Bill not Ben’s remarks about ‘Mr Mundell’.

      I’ve come late to today’s thread but you, Arbroath have no need to apologise in my view. What you said on needed to be said. We have more than enough reasons and arguments for challenging Mundell, without straying into matters of his sexuality. Only issues of legality and, as a politician, any evidence of hypocrisy over positions taken on legal/social policy would offer any justification for raising this – and that case was not made.

    108. H Scott says:

      Interesting article in English on the situation in Catalonia and with parallels to Scotland.

      https://www.vilaweb.cat/noticies/violence-as-identity-joan-ramon-resina/

    109. geeo says:

      Juan @5.48pm

      If you think that, you are not too smart, are you ?

    110. The biggest PFI project ever is going to be Hinkley Point C nuclear power station,

      the French State owned Électricité de France and the Chinese State owned China General Nuclear Power Group/China National Nuclear Corporation are going to build it,

      to recoup their investment they have a guarantee from Her Majesty`s Government that they will get £92.50/MWh,

      even if electricity fell to £20/MWh the UK will top up to £92.50/MWh,

      estimated cost of build is £20billion guaranteed by French/Chinese

      estimated cost of topping up electricity price is £50billion,

      that is cost of top up you will also have to pay whatever the cost of electricity is at the time,

      nobody outside the French and Chinese see this as a good deal,

      to make it even worse it looks like we will no longer be part of Euratom (European Atomic Energy Community)which supplies the nuclear fuel and trains the service/safety workers for nuclear industry.

    111. colin alexander says:

      “Two thirds of voters believe Scottish MPs are not doing enough to stop Brexit “power grab”, poll finds”

      https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/two-thirds-voters-believe-scottish-mps-are-not-doing-enough-stop-brexit-%E2%80%9Cpower-grab%E2%80%9D

    112. Mike d says:

      Ipso, yougov.com. etc etc. Surely no one thinks organisation’s like these are impartial. These are propaganda agents of the brit state, pure and simple

    113. Robert Peffers says:

      @harry mcaye says: 2 February, 2018 at 12:36 pm:

      “I live in Hamilton, a traditional Labour working class town. The number of pensioners I see buying this right wing shite is astonishing.”

      Oh! Hell! Not again!

      When is it going to get through to some Wingers that the only connection between these UNIONISTS and their age is that they are all that remains of what used to be predominantly the three unionist parties from when I was a young schoolboy and became an SNP supporter.

      There were few of us about and that meant the rest were all unionists. Back then in the early to mid 1940s was just after the Labour Party post WWII landslide and Scotland’s electorate swung solidly behind the Labour Party. Remember that millions of Scots were being rehoused from crumbling old tenements and slums into modern well equipped homes including prefabs.

      That means there were lots of Labour Party MPs and councillors and their families with the remainder being Tory and Liberals. We had few, if any SNP MPs.

      After Winnie Ewing’s breakthrough Hamilton victory in 1967 the party has been slowly winning over voters from the three unionist parties. As you got the vote at 18 and it is now 2018 that means the bulk of the SNP voters must be from the 51 and under age group.

      It also means that the unionist party and its voters must also be from that same group but as the SNP were attracting most uncommitted younger voters what is left are the actual unionist politicians, unionist party members and their remaining, more elderly, unionist followers.

      That trend will continue and that means the SNP will grow and the unionist parties will shrink even if we were not also winning over former unionist party members at the same time.

      Thing is the unionists know this and that is why they are getting ever more desperate.

      “The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
      Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
      Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
      Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”

      Omar Khayyám

    114. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Dan Hull @ 7.43pm

      As regards the North Channel Bridge, I fear this may be once when McTernan gets something correct. Between the actual depth of the ditch, not forgetting the huge amount of ordanance dumped there, Beaufort’s Dyke makes it impossible with current technology to build either a bridge of a tunnel between Scotland and Ireland, at that point.

      And, I cannot see any justification for the alternative siting of the Mull of Kintyre to Ireland.

    115. Robert Peffers says:

      @artyhetty says: 2 February, 2018 at 12:59 pm:

      “It’s amazing to think that the lying right wing, British nationalist daily rags, and the disgusting British nationalist bbc, can basically say what they like and get away with it, in UKOK in 2018.”

      Oh! Come on! The fact is they are not, “Getting Away with it”. The slow but steady move towards independence proves they are not getting away with it.

      “The war on Scotland, by the so called media reminds me of the war on countries like Venezuela by whatever means possible, and now with talk of arresting and locking up their democratically elected leader. Rajoy has a hand in all of that.”

      All very true, artyhetty.

      “The people of Scotland are by and large, immune now to the constant onslaught of lies about their democratically elected government.”

      And that is at odds with your belief that they are getting away with it.

    116. Capella says:

      I see from Stu’s twitter, that Labour and their media pals are attempting to claim credit for Jean Freeman’s ending of private sector companies assessing benefits.

      This evil practice was brought in by Labour’s Yvette Cooper.

      Ended by the SNP’s Jeane Freeman.

      https://twitter.com/JeaneF1MSP/status/959467446985003008

      Another media lie nailed.

    117. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Capella

      I see from Stu’s twitter, that Labour and their media pals are attempting to claim credit for Jean Freeman’s ending of private sector companies assessing benefits.

      Looks to me like they are eginning to finally recognise that SNP Badding all the time simply isn’t working; that the opinion polls are still, even if slowly, creeping towards a bedrock YES majority.

      So what do they try next? If you can’t bad them of policy then simply steal them on policy.

      But you know – they still have that awfy big hurdle called the interwebby thing to get rid of first.

      “Hi. Is that Bill – Bill Gates? Hi Bill – it’s me–Richard Leonard here and I’ve a wee problem I was hoping you might be able to help me with.”

      “Sorry–Richard who?”

      They might be able to slow the flow–but they cannae turn back the tide.

    118. Fireproofjim says:

      Socrates McSporran
      You are right. The bridge would have to be largely supported on several 1,000 foot high columns over the Beaufort Dyke trench. Never been done anywhere.
      Vague talk of a floating section is nonsense in such exposed and stormy waters.
      A tunnel by contrast would have to burrow more than a thousand feet deep to get below the trench.
      Present technology is not capable of building such a bridge or tunnel.Best forgotten and concentrate on better and bigger ferries and the road to Stranraer.

    119. Luigi says:

      Socrates MacSporran says:

      2 February, 2018 at 8:48 pm

      As regards the North Channel Bridge, I fear this may be once when McTernan gets something correct. Between the actual depth of the ditch, not forgetting the huge amount of ordanance dumped there, Beaufort’s Dyke makes it impossible with current technology to build either a bridge of a tunnel between Scotland and Ireland, at that point.

      And, I cannot see any justification for the alternative siting of the Mull of Kintyre to Ireland.

      Wrong – deep water sections can be bridged by modern concrete pontoons. There are numerous examples around the world. Try telling the Chinese engineers it can’t be done – they are currently building a bridge between Hong Kong and Macau. They would even consider a Kintyre route by tunnelling through Arran to connect with the Ayrshire coast.

      Political will, that’s all it takes. That is why they can build a railway to Tibet in 3 years, yet it takes 30 years to talk about building a new railway station in Scotland. It’s about time politicians in Scotland started thinking big.

    120. Dr Jim says:

      I just recieved an email informing me that BBC Scotland news

    121. geeo says:

      “Its about time politicians in Scotland started thinking big”

      And there was me thinking that big shiny new structure over the Forth was the biggest and best of its king on earth….!!

    122. geeo says:

      *kind ..even !!

    123. Dr Jim says:

      I just received an email informing me that BBC Scotland news ran 10,000 headline stories based on press releases from the so called Scottish Unionist parties in the last 4 years

      No information on SNP press releases but it would be nice to know, although I’d bet my house on it not being even remotely close

    124. Kevin says:

      @Capella
      “We need to find an alternative to these whitewashing procedures. This blog does its best but doesn’t reach the people who swallow everything they hear and see in the MSM…”

      I’ve been saying for some time now, we need a grassroots reaction to state fibs. As odd or unfashionable as it might sound, regular hanging of emblazoned sheets are as to-the-point as you’ll find. I’ve had questionnaires on Indy sites, asking me for my opinion about what other approaches we could be taking; I’ve had no responses to date to my suggestion. MSM are getting an easy ride, they know there’s bugger-all else out there and they can, and do, print what they so desire – meanwhile, we’ve a country to win back.

      Providing nothing profane, or illegal, is undertaken, I reckon they’d dread ‘the people’ fighting back in this way. An old sheet and a can of black spray paint could have a positive effect for us and have them groaning in despair.

      ‘BBC: ASK RUTH ABOUT THE RAPE CLAUSE’
      ‘LABOUR ARE SUPPORTING TRIDENT’
      ‘ALISTAIR CARMICHAEL IS A LIAR’
      ‘RUTH SUPPORTS BIGOTS AND RACISTS – CHALLENGE HER’
      ‘THE BBC ISN’T TELLING US ABOUT BREXIT DISASTER’.. etc, etc

      I’d like to see that type of news and information from my car, commuter train, bus or where I live. I honestly don’t think we should be leaving it all to the Scottish Govt, I firmly believe they’re waiting for us, the citizens of Scotland, to activate.

    125. Juan says:

      geeo says:

      Juan @5.48pm
      “If you think that, you are not too smart, are you ?”
      Maybe not, but smart enough to question WHY? It’s the most powerful word in the English language.
      Cynical enough to enquire WHO? Is the next most pertinent, in this case. Was hoping some Winger would know who was behind the case . It would shed some light on their intentions. It’s not just Brexitears who’re worried that Westminster might choose a get out of jail free card. If their “Brexit” causes the loss of their Cash cow colony of Scotland, they’re fecked and they’ll know it. I’m just thinking this could be a face saving result for Westminster to ditch “Brexit”.
      A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn’t know the answer he’ll get back.

    126. Luigi says:

      geeo says:

      2 February, 2018 at 9:33 pm

      “Its about time politicians in Scotland started thinking big”

      And there was me thinking that big shiny new structure over the Forth was the biggest and best of its king on earth….!!

      It’s big for Scotland but it’s dwarfed by some of the ongoing projects in Asia. It’s certainly a nice structure but two major disappointments:
      1. four lanes instead of six (justifiable)
      2. no direct link with the M8/M74

      Reason – not thinking big enough!

    127. Luigi says:

      You cannot fault the British Nationalists for not thinking big – when it comes to their pet projects (nukes, nuke power, illegal wars, banker chum bailouts, privitisation schemes etc etc).

      No expense is spared.

    128. Luigi says:

      The borders railway was also a great idea, but totally spoiled by not future-proofing for double track or building sidings/facilities for additional freight/passenger traffic.

      Reason – not thinking big enough.

      The politicians in charge seemed to view it as a chore to be done rather than a great opportunity to create something special. Terrified of being accused of wasting money. Strange this fear goes out the window when a pet project is involved.

      Aye, political will, or rather political wont.

    129. Juan says:

      @RJS: “It’s only when a judgement is made by the ECJ that matters are put on a firm legal footing. That’s the definitive opinion, the only one that really counts.”

      I just think this has the potential to backfire.
      Who benefits most from “Brexit” being cancelled? Not us who want another IndyRef because of the “material change”. Every area in Scotland voted Remain, so the Reuters article doesn’t shed much light on who’s legal challenge this is. It might not be SNP behind this. The single politician who has most to lose is surely our only UKIP representative. Once out of EU, he’s out of a job. Unlikely he’ll ever get another job, never mind one that pays as well, plus all his other little perks like travel, expenses etc. Would be funny if it was him.
      Anyone know who’s behind the legal challenge?

    130. jfngw says:

      Is that Luigi Alexander by any chance, a sibling of Wendy & Douglas?

    131. Robert Peffers says:

      @Effijy says: 2 February, 2018 at 5:23 pm:

      “Completely takes my breath away!
      The Daily Hail being an out and out Fascist Propaganda Pamphlet
      getting away with the complete and utter distortion of anything related to the truth by their Tory parasite chums at IPSO.”

      As I pointed out, Effijy, way up thread. IPSO, (who claim to be totally independent), are factually funded by the very publications they are set up to regulate. See:-

      https://www.ipso.co.uk/about-ipso/

      Here is a cut and paste from their website of how they are funded.

      “IPSO is financed by the Regulatory Funding Company (RFC) which is funded by member publications. IPSO carries out its work separately and completely independently from its members.”

      So the, “totally independent”, IPSO are factually, “totally dependent”, for funding upon the very publications the are set up to regulate.

      Independent?

      Aye!
      Richt!

    132. Capella says:

      @ Proud Cybernat – the internet has made all the difference. It transforms the power of propaganda. Only the people dependent on the MSM can be completely fooled ALL of the time.

      Robert Peffers says that the MSM is losing ground. But I think the majority for Independence would be c 100% but for the evil influence of the MSM. They are powerful and despicable.

      Luckily, we have Stu keeping tabs on them.

    133. Meg merrilees says:

      Juan

      re the Scots judge deciding on a possible ECJ appeal against Art 50

      don’t forget, Art. 50 was drafted by Lord Kerr – Scottish- and he has maintained all along that it is possible to stop and reverse Art 50 at any time up to the actual point of leaving.

      WM has refuted that and is of the opinion that Art. 50 is unstoppable once it has begun.

      Hence this attempt to go to the ECJ.

    134. galamcennalath says:

      Do other countries have rags like the Daily Express whose sole mission appears to be to spread bad feeling and disrupt society? (Very genuine question!)

      https://mobile.twitter.com/gavmacn/status/959144498965041152

    135. Dr Jim says:

      Perhaps if Scotland had the 20 odd billion a year of our own money that the English government keep for themselves we’d be able to do a lot more stuff

      Defence and foreign affairs the English government tell us
      then they borrow money on the value of the oil they keep telling us we don’t have and add 8% of that debt we didn’t ask for and don’t get the benefit of to Scotland then tell us we’ve got a deficit and we’re poor

      Then they have the cheek to stick their Trident missiles in my back garden making me a target for every other country the English government under the control of the bloody Americans upsets

      It never ceases to amaze me that Scotland manages to stay so peaceful in the face of the most arrogant racist war mongering thieves in the world, although we are infested by Unionists, I find it difficult even dignifying them with any name other than something far less polite

      What about this one, Carillion sold much of their shares to a company based in tax haven Jersey which is owned by the Daily Mail pension fund BEFORE they “Crashed” so guess what, somebody knew didn’t they

      Oh the surprise, ask me if I’m shocked

    136. Juan says:

      @Meg. I get that it’ll be heard by a Scottish Judge, but it’s which politicians that are seeking the ruling, I was wondering who they are.

      “The lawmakers behind the challenge represent electoral areas in Scotland which voted strongly to remain in the EU in the June 2016 referendum “

    137. Luigi says:

      jfngw says:

      2 February, 2018 at 10:04 pm

      Is that Luigi Alexander by any chance, a sibling of Wendy & Douglas?

      I may be daft, but I’m no that daft. 🙂

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      @Luigi
      The FRC is the M90, which has direct links to the M8 which goes directly to the M74, motorway all the way. It has perhaps a 3 mile long excursion around Dundas Castle, whereas at probably huge expense and environmental protests it could have done it in 1 1/2 miles. But it used an existing link to Edinburgh, which is a main usage.

      Similarly it connects to the M9 via 5 miles whereas a straight cut would be about 1 1/2 miles But on the other hand how much traffic goes across Fife and then to Perth or Stirling?

      And nothing prevents new Mway spurs being built to them in the future, if there’s demand – and a crazy little thing called love loot.

    139. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Juan @ 22:02,

      It’s true that UKexit being stopped dead in its tracks removes the immediate justification for IR2, that much can’t be denied. I don’t think this initiative has such a its motivation, though. It’s possible to overthink these things.

      These are likely financial bods like Gina Miller who can see their business going down the tubes with any kind of Brexit, and would like it halted if possible. For better or worse, I doubt that indy as such features here at all. The fact they are using a Scottish dimension to make their stand is interesting, and rather refreshing actually, but probably only reflects their location (Edinburgh, at a guess).

      From our point of view, though, the bigger the mess over UKexit, the better. It simply further reveals the complete lack of understanding and competence of UKGov anyway, and how they are dragging us though all this pain regardless. Legal challenges hurt UKGov much more than anyone else. Especially if they get as far as the ECJ! =hee hee=

      A Kipper trying to prevent Brexit? I hardly think so! Take a chill pill, my friend. =grin=

    140. twathater says:

      Meg M @ 1.56pm thank you for fluffies link ,( sorry but I have to swear ) what a fucking weasily piece of dog shite that little scumbag is .

      Fluffie says ” what i have to say is the SG have in their report ONLY focused on the negative aspect of the withdrawal from the EU , it is my opinion that there are many positive things that we can look forward to ” and yet again he refused to state ANY specific powers coming back , he said that he and the SG had agreed not to leak any specific powers put forward .

      How can Mike Russell and John Swinney hold their temper when talking to these arseholes I’m sorry but i would have to give them the Glasgow kiss just to make me feel better

    141. yesindyref2 says:

      @Luigi
      Borders railway I tend to agree, at least in respect of the new bridges which should have allowed for dual track – unless they’re designed to be extendable (not impossible). Perhaps all that would be needed is a new central span.

      As for track somebody else might know better but I think it was an existing route – of a single track railway.

      Much of the rail in Scotland IS single track, I daresay there’d be higher priorities at dualling until the used capacity of the Borders Railway is better known. And there’s a possible extension planned, even to Carlisle, which would seem a higher priority to me – again with limited funds.

      It’s not a case of not “£thinking big” Luigi, it’s adapting plans to available budgets, and getting the economic value of such things out as soon as possible, rather than waiting a squillion years for funds to magically appear, with a UK Government hell-bent on austerity, cutting and privatisijng the public sector, and hence constantly reducing the block grant on which Scotland is sadly dependent.

    142. Lenny Hartley says:

      O/T good to see fellow Wingers in Glesgoe tonight and the craic in the Yes Bar. Good fun at the other bar we were at, but I thought it was OTT that the Polis got called ???

    143. colin alexander says:

      If they could argue the meaning of Article 50 at the Court of Session, why can’t they argue the legitimacy of the sovereignty of the people of Scotland and their right to self-determination by the vote to Remain?

      Is it because it’s not about protecting Scotland’s interests, it’s about saving the UK Union from economic disaster?

      Or what’s the reason?

    144. Rock says:

      “IPSO has no problem with the accuracy of the Mail blaming the SNP for legally having to uphold contracts signed by the previous executive.”

      Rock (12th May 2015 – “The lockout”):

      “The Scottish justice system, like the Electoral Commission, the Information Commissioner’s office, the Press Complaints and the Pravda GB Trust, is rotten to the core.”

    145. Bill not Ben says:

      When i mentioned Mr Mundell it had nothing to do with his sexuality, i have been around gay men all my life,never had a problem with any of them, in fact one of them was a very good friend, alas he died about 3 years ago
      The point i was making was the fact he new he was a gay man, being a gay man was not the thing to be in those dark days, all he had to do was remain single and not marry a woman and have a child with her, the only gay man that i know of who got to the very top was Ted Heath, and we all know Ted was gay, but he never married to make his in politics promoting himself as a family man
      What i am saying is not about being gay, its about being who you are and not promoting yourself as someone you are not, and i think most people would agree with me,that what we need in politics is honesty and not subterfuge
      Honesty is allways the best policy, and Mr Mundell has proved so many times he cannot be trusted in scottish politics

    146. Bill not Ben says:

      I forgot to make it plain, i have nothing against Mr Mundell’s sexuality,that’s his private business, its about his honesty and integrity as a person and a politician

    147. Juan says:

      @RJS
      I was only joking about the Kipper being behind this. As much as I’d like to see him lose his seat, leaving the EU is about the least preferable way to get rid of him. A definite cutting off yer nose to spite your face.
      Still, it would be good to know who’s behind it and what their motivation is, as well as the implications for IndyRef 2.

    148. Rock says:

      Meg merrilees,

      ” My sister buys the mail every day – she says she buys it for the Femail section which has interesting information.
      But:
      my brother-in-law reads it very day for the sport ( my sister keeps hold of it and regularly reads it about a week out of date!!) and since 2014 they have gone from voting YES to not voting in the Council ( then SNP) and General elections. As a result they have a Tory council, Tory MP and they don’t like the proposed cuts heading their way, plus they voted LEAVE because of immigration (- in Angus??? ) despite the fact that the partner of one of their children is Scottish/Asian.”

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

    149. yesindyref2 says:

      The most stupid people on earth are in Scotland

      I hope you’re enjoying your visit.

    150. Juan says:

      @Kangaroo. Cheers for link at 10:42.
      Now we know who the “Scottish seven” are.

      “The Scottish Seven consists of the first four politicians who raised the case – SNP MEP Alyn Smith, Green MSPs Ross Greer and Andy Wightman and Scottish Labour MEP David Martin – plus Labour’s other Scottish MEPs Catherine Stihler, LibDem MP Christine Jardine, and Joanna Cherry, an SNP MP and a QC. Their action is supported by legal counsel in Edinburgh and by Jo Maugham QC and the Good Law Project.”

    151. K1 says:

      ‘i have nothing against Mr Mundell’s sexuality,that’s his private business,’

      Then why mention it all in relation to his political record? It’s got sfa to do with anything related to the point you attempt to make regarding his honesty and integrity in public office.

      It’s clear he has no integrity and it’s abundantly clear he’s an obfuscating liar just by his actual record as SoS for Scotland. His words and actions alone in that very capacity have defined him sufficiently in regard to his ‘honesty and integrity’. In essence he possesses none of those qualities.

      So there really is no need to even mention his sexuality in any context whatsoever.

      Learn to stop digging eh?

    152. colin alexander says:

      Rock

      In my experience the ICO is the fairest at bringing their rulings. The only criticism I would have is, they are reluctant to take action against organisations, such as fining them. But they will give, at times, give scathing criticism.

      But they are EXCELLENT IN giving fair assessments of compliance or non-compliance with the Data Protection Act. (But they aren’t legal rulings.)

      In fact, I would say the ICO is the ONLY good watchdog. ( Haven’t tried the Scottish Information Commissioner for FOI requests.)

      Whereas that other creation of SLab, the SPSO, is abysmal.
      Incredibly slow, incredibly biased in favour of public bodies, waters down complaints etc.

    153. K1 says:

      Wish you two would get a room.

    154. Meg merrilees says:

      Yesindyref2

      O/T I was looking at the Coal Authority maps for this area. It made me realise that many M’ways around here ( Stirlingshire) are weaving their way around old mine shafts and mine workings.

      Have a look: http://mapapps2.bgs.ac.uk/coalauthority/home.html

      That could account for some of the seemingly circuitous routes.

      I’ve also read that there was a tunnel under the Forth connecting to the Fife collieries but when t was closed down it was pumped full of concrete and stoppered to ensure no-one could use it again. Can you imagine if we had our own little tunnel under the river – we would never have go the wonderful Queensferrry crossing!

    155. Rock says:

      colin alexander,

      “Rock

      In my experience the ICO is the fairest at bringing their rulings. The only criticism I would have is, they are reluctant to take action against organisations, such as fining them.”

      The ICO is as rotten to the core as all the other “ombudsmen” and “regulators”.

      What’s the point of them “if they are reluctant to take action against organisations, such as fining them.”?

      The Right Honourable Carmichael, MP, was cleared by the rotten to the core Scottish justice system despite being a proven liar.

    156. geeo says:

      Luigi @9.42

      Stop it you twat..

      The new bridge is THE BIGGEST of its kind IN THE WORLD.

      That includes Asia last i checked.

    157. yesindyref2 says:

      @Meg merrilees
      Interesting map, I’ve bookmarked that. Had a (rented) flat many years ago in the North Gyle, old stomping ground for me 🙂

    158. geeo says:

      Juan @9.41pm

      Again you do not get it.

      You do not even seem to comprehend the point of the case brought.

      It is NOT to stop Brexit, the court case cannot legally do that.

      It is to ask if the WM Gov could stop brexit IF THEY CHOOSE TO at any point up until brexit day.

      There are clear paths the SG can take from this case, as i highlighted earlier.

      If you still don’t get it, stop talking bumph about it until you do.

    159. colin alexander says:

      Rock asked about the ICO: “What’s the point of them “if they are reluctant to take action against organisations, such as fining them.”?

      1. They may seek assurances the non-compliance has ended.
      2. They may ask for proof of changes that the non-compliant data controller has made changes and is now compliant.
      3. They give their assessment and the data controller can accept or appeal the assessment. If they accept non-compliance, you can put that as evidence if you decide to seek damages for distress or loss as a result of the non-compliance.

      So, they are very useful, but they could have even more clout, if the will was there.

      They will fine in certain circumstances, lets see if anyone reported SIU to the ICO for non-compliance with the Data Protection Act 1998.

      The DPA 1998 changes in May of this year to meet new compliance with the EU.

    160. colin alexander says:

      geeo said: “It is to ask if the WM Gov could stop brexit IF THEY CHOOSE TO at any point up until brexit day.”

      That’s right. It’s about saving the UK Union. As the SNP are sensibly planning ahead for what they hope are many more years of Mickey Mouse devolution with Westminster-sized salaries without the travelling to London.

      They don’t want the blame as the “Scottish Govt” because they allowed the UK Govt to destroy the Scottish economy through Brexit etc, instead of keeping Scotland in the EU when Scotland voted Remain.

      And the people and Scottish Parliament gave them the mandate for indyref to have a chance of staying in the EU, which they haven’t used.

    161. colin alexander says:

      I hope I’m wrong, but I fear the SNP have been assimilated by the British Establishment, just like Labour before them.

      That they have settled for devolution and downgraded / abandoned the fight for independence.

      SNP MSPs at the Lords. The FM a Privy Counsellor to HM Queen.

      The FM trying to sort the UK Govt’s EU policy for it.

      Not nice to witness.

    162. Juan says:

      @Geeo. Alright help me get it. This is a court proceeding which will hopefully reach ECJ, for them to rule, that the UK’s EU exit, can be stopped by the UK unilaterally whenever they want. This is not to stop the UK leaving the EU, according to you. It’s a cross party group of Labour, Green, Lib Dem and SNP. Are the Lib Dem and Greens not wanting to stop the EU exit? Are they looking to expose the Tories for the UKIPers most of them clearly are? Is that all that’s in it for them?

    163. yesindyref2 says:

      assimilated

      Ohmigud, it’s the Borg! Who’s playing the Borg Queen? Is it Historywoman? Quick, someone get the neurolytic pathogen.

    164. Cactus says:

      Aye aye Lenny Hartley, good tae be with ye’s again 🙂

      SIU. Shame. On. You.

      They’re trash.

    165. Hamish100 says:

      Colin Alexander

      Go to sleep . Your hallucinating

    166. geeo says:

      Shut the fuck up coco you utter fanny.

      Go change your nappy and wipe the dribbling pish from your chin.

      You were asked to put up or shut up by meeting me at a wings night on april 7th in glenrothes, are you coming or not ?

    167. Nana says:

      I’m in Court 8 in Edinburgh before Lord Doherty and I’m going to be live tweeting the permission hearing on whether the question ‘is Article 50 unilaterally revocable?’ should be referred to the CJEU.
      https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/959363779392954368

      Scottish court to decide early next week on legal case to stop Brexit
      http://archive.is/xInI7

      https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2018/02/02/looking-for-a-trapdoor

      Scotland the dumping ground
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/kaputniq/39995391312/

    168. Nana says:

      The SNP short of ideas? We are more radical than ever
      John Swinney
      http://archive.is/vlKyC

      Facebook Virus warning
      https://twitter.com/LukeDixonOxford/status/959415106982596613

      EU’s Brexit negotiator heads to London for transition talks
      http://archive.is/Lwa0i

      https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/government-fudging-brexit-transition-time-up-european-union

    169. yesindyref2 says:

      Morning Nana, might be some time before I get my links for a late breakfast!

      Anyways, seems like a good time to do the timetable:

      14th March 2019 – Indy Ref 2 – YES
      30th November 2020 – Independence Day
      1st November 2030 – publication of the world best seller – “Scottish Independence – the Untold Story”.

      Hey, now I published the title itself, do I get royalties on the book? And on the film rights? And the knock-off TV series sold in 197 countries?

    170. Nana says:

      Morning yesindyref2, 30th November 2020 sounds good to me.

      Who’s writing the book?

    171. alasdairB says:

      Groundhog Day

    172. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning, Nana,
      Raining here today Thank you for your links.
      Kettle’s on!
      🙂

    173. yesindyref2 says:

      @Nana
      Nicola Sturgeon would be the perfect choice I think. I bet she’s got a tale or two to tell 🙂

    174. Nana says:

      Morning Smallaxe 🙂

    175. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Hamish100 at 2.36 am

      Exactly.
      Crumbs off the unionist spin table from CA (whoever).

    176. colin alexander says:

      yesindyref2

      Interesting timetable:

      Is that Indyref following an S30 and Edinburgh Agreement issued between autumn announcement and 14th March 2019?

      I’ve canvassed March / April. The canvas sheets became a blur as the rain soaked them and the ink began to run and the canvassers were soaked to the skin. Other evenings a snell wind was cutting through the canvassers as we walked in the pitch dark.

      Thus, canvassing and campaigning wouldn’t happen on the scale that it did in 2014.

      S30 “cooperation” allowed the UK Govt to influence / control many aspects of the indyref. I’d say: rig it.

      If the UK Govt don’t give an S30 and an indyref is held without one, what if the UK Govt refuse to recognise it as legitimate?

      Do you think there won’t be legal objections or legal action over the legality or legitimacy of the Scot Govt legislating for a reserved matter – The Union?

      Last time, the Scot Govt White Paper envisaged 40% iScot/rUK shared institutions following YES and both members of the EU so all legislation already compliant with the EU and expected to remain so. That’s unlikely to be the case next time. UK will be out of the EU. Aye there will be transition till 2020 or 2021. But legislation will be being made to come into force after that date.

      UK Parliament will have an extremely heavy workload dealing with post Brexit legislation, 400 plus new trade deals etc, which will take years to work through following 40 years of integration with the EU.

      18 months between YES and independence day was considered optimistic by experts last time around. I can’t see WM being willing to facilitate a speedy indy for Scotland.

      The Edinburgh Agreement had NO independence timetable agreement. NO commitment from the UK Govt that Scotland would be independent by a certain date or what sort of independence we would have.

      Frankyly, the Edinburgh Agreement was a confidence trick, it promised an unbiased BBC, The Vow promised Devo-Max and Smith Commission later confirmed that the whole thing from start to finish was a sham.

    177. yesindyref2 says:

      Seems like an appropriate time to play this.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTY26k0CA0I

      There’s always a few in the nest.

    178. Hamish100 says:

      CA

      Hope you had a good sleep. Now for 2018 try your best and come with reasonable suggestions on how we get independence. No pie in the sky . Any negativity or undermining will confirm your britnats credentials.

      Over to you.

    179. geeo says:

      At least when coco is polluting this blog, it keeps him from acting on his ‘urges’ at the park…

    180. colin alexander says:

      Hamish100

      1. The process was rigged from start to finish by the UK Govt; the Edinburgh Agreement was virtually worthless, as the UK Govt flouted it. They were able to do that, as they had leverage over the untested legality of an INDYref without an S30.

      So, Lesson 1: no cooperation with UK Govt. It’s Scotland’s people’s decision. To hell the with Electoral Commission. Let internationally accredited scrutinisers be the watchdogs and adjudicators of fairness, not the British Establishment’s lapdogs.
      —————————–

      2. (Many who criticise the SNP devolution govt ARE Unionists, but that does not mean everyone who criticises the SNP MUST be a Unionist. Likewise, not all who support indy support the SNP or all their devolution policies.

      To base Scottish independence on a popularity contest for the SNP party is stupid when for 99.9999% of the time the SNP are primarily a devolution administration.

      Thus, Nicola Sturgeon / SNP should NOT be the main YES representative ALL the time. There should be a different representative on as many occasions as possible, saying why they support independence. Pensioners, young people, poor people, not just middle-class SNP politicians all the time.

      3. The White Paper was a well-meaning white elephant. Independence should be a two-step process:

      First, you decide to become independent. Then you decide what the policies should be for that independent country via election manifestos etc. An independence vote isn’t a vote to decide on Trident, it’s about having the POWER to decide AFTER you are independent. Yet, the White Paper turned it into a referendum about the White Paper.

      —————————————-

      Indyref served it’s purpose – engaging ordinary people in thinking about Scottish independence. It’s a mistake to repeat it.
      The basis for indyref is electoral mandate: the sovereign people exercising self-determination by democratic means: That can be done via electoral mandate at an election.

      Only the most basic economic questions need answered in the manifesto. Pensions, benefits and wages will be paid. (If there’s going to be any policies: guarantee a much bigger state pension for 10 years minimum following indy. Bribe the reliably-voting pensioner No voters.)

      But Independence should be about power to decide, not a decision about policies. The UK is an undemocratic, corrupt, antiquated system of govt. A hegemony. Domination by the rich elite elected by England’s middle class to dominate over the rest of the UK whether geographical or socio-economic.
      Independence should be about creating a modern, democratic, inclusive country as a route to increased prosperity and opportunity for all.

      So, independence should be focused on democracy, a constitution, more power for ordinary people to influence how the wealth is distributed or spent.

      —————————–

      But, I’m told indyref is a done deal; it’s going to happen.

      It’s unlikely the UK Govt would approve it, so unlikely the UK Govt would recognise a YES win.

      There is simply not enough time left to hold one and legislate afterwards within the lifetime of this parliament in Brexit Britain. Indy should be decided a the start of a parliamentary term, not 3 years into a five year term.

      That’s why it’s better done by electoral mandate. So the govt starts with the big decision already made and has 5 years to put it into effect.

      In 2014 the SNP wanted an independent parliament and Devo-Max for many of the other institutions of govt. They got neither.

      The SNP see another chance of Devo-Max via the return of EU devolved powers. That’s what they want and that’s what they are fighting for, not indy.

      The UK Govt know this and want UK Govt Hegemony-max. That’s the fight right now, indy is a non-starter for the SNP.

    181. geeo says:

      Keep posting coco..keeps you away from the park.

      You are a slavering unionist troll cunt.

    182. Petra says:

      @Geeo ….

      You’re coming across as a great representative for Scottish Independence ….. NOT.

    183. geeo says:

      Coco attempts to ruin this blog…you attack me.

      Well done you, coco will be delighted.

      Since Stu will never ban coco, it seems, why worry what i write ?

      I guide people to this place every chance i get, no voters from last time, now reviewing their decision.

      What do you think they say to me when all the read about is Coco’s drivel every fucking day ?

      It is putting people off, people who we need.

      At least 4 people now, have got back in touch saying the articles are great but btl is a fucking shambles.

      Banning trolls like coco allows people to express the arguments we want them to read about and take them in. It does not make it a like minded talking shop as some think, it makes it a place where people can be convinced of the positive case.

      Now before you say ingore the troll and he goes away, we both know that ain’t true.

      Maybe i should stop posting and let you experts deal with the forum wankers.

      Articles = fantastic

      Btl = downhill fast.

      Just saying.

    184. Chick McGregor says:

      IPSO FACTO, there is no regulator worthy of the name.

    185. Petra says:

      Mr Alexander is NOT a supporter of Independence, that’s for SURE Geeo. I know it and you know it. He’s on here undermining the Independence movement by castigating the SNP at every turn and as he does so is trying to ruin this site. Why Stu doesn’t ban him is WAY beyond my ken. While words like r*pe shunt off extremely decent posts, r*pe an issue of great concern to many women worldwide, words like c*nt get through. HOW demeaning is that to women?

      I’m also ABSOLUTELY RAGING that words that relate to female genitalia are being used on this site on a daily basis, such as fa**y, f*d and c*nt. If I wasn’t so obsessed with getting our Independence (Wings the best Indy site overall) I’d be OFF of here in an instant. In this day and age it’s profoundly diabolical, extremely hurtful towards most women, and not something we look forward to putting up with in an Independent Scotland.

      PLEASE take note Stu.

      You say ”I guide people to this place every chance i get, no voters from last time, now reviewing their decision.”

      Where’s the proof of that? More so how many people have you actually DETERRED with the language that you use? Do you have any idea of the numbers? In the tens, hundreds or thousands?

      Meanwhile people like you Geeo who no doubt HAVE contributed positively to this site, and have clearly done so from your track record, lower yourself to using vile language. Mr Alexander never does so. Newcomers will compare you to him. To my mind you are falling into Mr Alexander’s trap and for some strange reason Stu goes along with it.

      Not trying to get at you as an individual because you are not on your own here Geeo. However as I see it Mr Alexander is winning the (his) battle, imo.

    186. K1 says:

      Tell me, why didn’t you raise this in Stu’s article “Absolute Fanny of the week?

      He literally used one of the words you can’t even bring yourself to type Petra on the ‘title’ of an article? Why weren’t you ‘ASOLUTELY RAGING’ about that?

      Geeo can no more prove what you are ‘demanding’ he proves regarding how many people he has guided to this site anymore than you can ‘prove’ how many people are driven away by people swearing btl Petra? Nor can you prove that he has ‘deterred’ anyone by the same reasoning. 😉

    187. geeo says:

      I actually give up.

    188. Hamish100 says:

      CA

      I disagree and you will be proved wrong. Now how will YOU promote independence?

    189. shug says:

      It is interesting that today the Herald has a headline Scottish spy chief who masterminded dirty war

      strange he is not British Army Chief

      He must be about to take the drop for something bad if he’s Scottish

      The this the Herald breaking news!!

    190. Fred says:

      So where’s he living now Shug? a lot of peeps would be interested?



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