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Scottish Lib Dems Fact Check

Posted on February 01, 2018 by

The claim:

Let’s check that against what really happened, shall we?

Lib Dems who voted FOR the budget: 2.

Lib Dems who voted AGAINST the budget: 3.

Net number of Lib Dem votes contributed towards passing the budget which secured more funding for lifeline ferry services to the Northern Isles: minus 1.

Would the budget have passed no matter which way the Lib Dems voted? Yes.

So did “Lib Dem pressure” affect anything in any way? No.

And that’s how we check facts, readers.

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    210 to “Scottish Lib Dems Fact Check”

    1. Holebender says:

      Is having half their number voting for and half against a motion the latest LibDem strategy for claiming victory no matter what the outcome is?

    2. John Moss says:

      Job well done mythbuster ?

    3. heedtracker says:

      Staggering shysters, FibDems in Scotland. Just when you thought future Sir Alistair Carmichael OBE had gone as low as a FibDem could go…

    4. John Moss says:

      Job well done mythbuster ?

    5. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Holebender @ 13:34,

      Reviving an old Highland tradition, it seems. In time of trouble, the laird sending one son to fight for one side and another for the other.

      It’s what you do when you’ve no principles and nowhere else to go.

    6. Marcia says:

      The LD have form in their way of talking themselves up. The LD councillors here in Dundee claim everything happened here because of them.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      At least the two island reps voted yes. The other three mainland reps kept the balance by voting No.

      Islanders, the Lib Dem don’t really rate you at all in fact.
      The three lib demo would rather see you swim home than give you proper services. Time to wakey wakey.

      Charlatans opportunists. They could stand sideways on the edge of a razor blade and never nick their feet.

    8. Arbroath1320 says:

      I guess that Lib Dem “claim” was written by none other than the world renown LIAR and Lib Dem M.P. for Orkney and Sheltand, one Alistair Carmichael then. After all he has a well documented history for spreading LIES does he mot?

    9. galamcennalath says:

      The Scottish sub-branch of the Liberal Democrat sub-branch of the British Nationalists aren’t in a position to apply political pressure anywhere in the system.

      They blew it when they were given influence as part of the LibDem Tory coalition at WM, but failed to achieve anything of a LibDem nature. Conversely, they were tarnished by the Tory policies they were instrumental in passing. Not to mention chums in BetterTogether.

      A once great party of Lloyd George now reduced to ‘porky pies’.

    10. HandandShrimp says:

      The Lib Dems wanted the amendment and the majority of them voted against it (although the two island councillors at least saw sense that defending a no vote to their constituents would be tough).

      Voting against your own amendment – thought that was a Labour trick. Clearly Willie’s team have caught the cootie 🙂

    11. colin alexander says:

      I suggest:

      The Scot Govt hold indyref2 and make clear it is advisory only.

      But the YES campaign promise: if a majority vote YES, The SNP will seek a direct manifesto mandate at the next election ( whether UK or Scottish Parliament) to negotiate independence if they (or independence parties) win a majority of seats in Scotland. ( No indyref). If No wins, back to indyref policy.

      So the current indyref2 mandate would be used.

      It would be advisory, so no legal challenges from UK Govt or others.

      It would be a safer bet for the SNP. Not forced to stand directly for independence, unless YES won the advisory poll.

    12. Macart says:

      Libdems make a lot of …claims.

      At some point one of them may even be true. Just not today, or anytime soon given the nature and history of their current representatives.

    13. I think Stuart should be careful he’ll confuse the Libdems,

    14. heedtracker says:

      Just when think FibDem twits can’t scrape the FibDem barrel any harder,

      BBC Andrew Kerr?Verified account
      Follow Follow @BBCandrewkerr

      Two Lib Dems @tavishscott @Liam4Orkney will back Scot Govt budget to protect Orkney & Shetland local ferry services. They feel forced – Lib Dems say it’s “gunboat diplomacy” and they won’t “slit their constituents’ throats” – “even if the SNP MSPs do”.

      6:48 AM – 31 Jan 2018

    15. geeo says:

      *(cough)* village idiot alert *(cough)*

      1. ALL referendum are advisory, unless by previous agreement (s.30).

      2. If a majority vote Yes,in ANY referendum, s.30 or not, it’s game over for the union due to Scots Sovereignty. (a Yes vote = Sovereign will of Scots people). WM could technically ignore a non s.30 referendum Yes result, but a simple court decision affirming Scots Sovereignty would put a quick end to that one, and with it the union.

      3. Coco is clearly getting desperate now..point and laugh time..hahaha ya roaster.

    16. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Typical Lib-Dems, but, not perhaps as bad as the Orcadian Tory list MSP for Highlands and Islands Jamie Halcro Johnston, who made a big push for these same inter-island ferries to be funded – the in typical Tory fashion, voted against the budget which provided the funding.

    17. geeo says:

      On FMQ’s and lib-dems.

      I though Nicola was supreme today, she utterly destroyed Davidson, then Leonard, then…well…just laughed at would be cruel to do anything else to that one.

      Credit where due to the 2 Lib-dems who voted for the budget. The fact it split the Lib-dems is a bonus point.

      On the latest polling results, if i was Ruth Davidson, i would be seriously concerned.

      Labour have went into 2nd in the polls, with Leonard in charge !!! A man more incompetent than any other labour leader since….emmm….errr…possibly, ever ?

      If Ruthie tank commander cannot hear those alarm bells, she needs her lugs syringed.

    18. Dr Jim says:

      Why is it always the losers cry *A grubby deal* when other politicians agree on something but when it’s the Lib Dems they claim they were forced to agree to something they actually asked for as *Gunboat diplomacy*

      Taxing too much one lot says, taxing too little the other lot says, can only mean the SNP got it right again

      It has to be said though that Great Dictator megalomaniac Patrick Harvies *Green shirts* tax proposals are insanity *On stilts*
      Excuse the *On stilts* reference but these people are seriously dangerous Luniacs

    19. GORDON FORREST says:

      Cant wait to see their leaflet they are going to distribute about this fantastic coup of theirs. ( and their expense forms for it) Oh! no! they only produce up the leaflets,dont distribute them and then put the expenses through on National party expenses… allegedly

    20. jfngw says:

      If the vote had been tied, not counting the LibDems, then the budget and ferry funding would have failed due to them. Willie using a reverse polish notation calculator and getting confused again.

    21. Bob Mack says:

      Let’s face it folks. The majority of these Unionist politicians are actually dense. They remind me of the Goon show. I think they have a plan to capture Scotland, just like the Goons.

      “Tonight we march South to invade Scotland”

      “But Scotland is North sir”

      ” yes I know, but if we go round the world,we can sneak up behind them you fool”

    22. Artyhetty says:

      Jokers to the right, and jokers to the left but definitely jokers stuck in the middle with this lot of brass necks. That old song, I have no idea why it comes to mind.

      Really though, they should be taken to task for their outright lies, pays the bills though eh. Did they ever pay Police Scotland that 800k that they owe?

    23. Legerwood says:

      The LibDems record when it comes to the ferry services to Orkney and Shetland, and indeed the ferry services to the islands in general, is hardly a stellar one.

      As members of the Scottish Executive coalition with Labour the LibDems were in charge of Transport including ferries. If I remember correctly Tavish Scott may have been the Transport Minister.

      When the ferry contract for the Orkney and Shetland service was awarded to Northlink the subsidy from the SE was supposed to be £30 million but ended being more than double that so badly was the whole thing handled. Report in the Scotsman from 2005

      Implementing Road Equivalent Tarrif was supposed to be
      a LibDem policy but, like a lot else, they never implemented it when they had the chance. The SNP did though.

      Given their abysmal record on transport issues to the northern isles I cannot understand why anyone there would vote for them.

    24. Sorry my last post got away from me before I finished typing it, I was going on to say, whenever did the Libdems deal in facts.

      As for Rennie he appears to live in a fantasy world of his own.
      I don’t know how anyone can take him seriously.

    25. Cuilean says:

      It’s called ‘To run with the hare and hunt with the hounds’.

      The Libdem fasthold of Orkney & Shetlands would have been seriously exposed, to say the least, if the 2 local MSPs had voted against the new ferry service.

      But to blow their own bugle, when the majority of their MSPs voted against the new ferries deal, beggars belief, even by Libdem ‘fake news’ standards.

      Just how stupid do they think the people of Orkney & Shetland are?

      If, and its a big if, the Libdems were ever in power at Holyrood again, (when they bailed out Slab) by this vote of 3-2, the people of Orkney & Shetland would have had no new ferries. Only the SNP and the Greens gave the Northern isles the new package, not the Libdems.

      Time to cast the Libdems adrift, Northern Isles, cut and run, unless you like voting for folks, who clearly think your heads button up the back.

    26. Thepnr says:

      The people living on the islands are also entitled to subsidised flights under the Air Discount Scheme which was introduced in May 2006.

      Not only have the SNP maintained this subsidy for the islanders since 2007 but have increased the discount to 50% in 2016.

      When it comes to subsidised travel no one could deny that the Scottish Government give the Islanders a very good deal. Also flights necessary for NHS appointments on the mainland are normally fully funded.

      No doubt under the Tories in Holyrood or Westminster rule, these subsidies would be scrapped.

    27. John Jones says:

      I have just read an online report on the Scottish Lib Dem webpage which leads with this untruth and subsequently emailed all five Lib Dem MSPs in Fife asking them to have it amended as it is misleading at best and untrue at worst. May I suggest everyone does this to see if there is any response.

    28. louis.b.argyll says:

      Now, if only people paid attention to facts instead of headlines when deciding how to vote..

      ..we’d have something close to democracy..

      ..the very opposite of what our (somehow exclusively Tory) newspaper-owner’s politics desire.

      No voters aren’t helping their friends and neighbours, nor the generations who follow.

      They are helping ONLY the Tories and facilitating their evil north-hating intent.
      British Unionists, unknowingly securing short-term stability for the Home Counties and lots of low paid work for the new right-wing schemes of Brexitland, now that they’ve banned foreigners.

    29. mogabee says:

      LibDems have form on being excellent at ‘manipulating’ the truth to make a lie seem not really a lie.

      If only they could manipulate their ex partners-in-crime to fight FOR Scotland’s place in the world…

    30. Ghillie says:

      What that shows me is that 3 Libdems voted against their own colleagues interests to protect their patch, or cynicaly, their seats.

      Willie didn’t half look daft when he stood up to have his say.

    31. jfngw says:

      Beware at the next election if a LibDem arrives at the door, they have a thing about cutting throats if you disagree with them it seems. The Pirates of the Northern Isles:The Curse of the LibDems, just waiting on Disney to pick it up.

    32. Petra says:

      On a positive note, it was a poke in the eye for Sillie Rennie.

    33. Why the frick are we helping the Orkney and Shetlanders,

      they are against Scotland and for Westminster,

      should lose all subsidy for anything and everything,

      fricken ingrates the lot of them,

      give them back to Norway, let them subsidise the red trousered interloper ingrates.

    34. Ghillie says:

      Scott Finlayson: WTF!!

      Not cool.

    35. Ghillie says:

      It would be good if The Orkney News picked up on this = )

      Just away to leave a comment there.

    36. Robert Peffers says:

      @Peter McCulloch says: 1 February, 2018 at 2:12 pm:

      “I think Stuart should be careful he’ll confuse the Libdems”

      Nah! He might just manage to un-confuse them but you cannot confuse those already confused., (Oh! Well! I believe there is no such word as, ‘un-confuse’, but there should probably really be one.

    37. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Scot Finlayson

      Give Orkney & Shetland back to Norway? Okay – so go and look at a map of the North Sea and see just how much of Scotland’s oil & gas resources would then be in Norwegian waters. Aye – very clever.

      And calling people “ingrates” is hardly the best way to win them over. Gi’ it a rest.

    38. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 1 February, 2018 at 2:23 pm:

      “*(cough)* village idiot alert *(cough)*
      1. ALL referendum are advisory, unless by previous agreement (s.30).
      2. If a majority vote Yes,in ANY referendum, s.30 or not, it’s game over for the union due to Scots Sovereignty.”

      Indeed so, geeo, I noted the totally idiotic claptrap and was just about to tear it to bits. Then, I thought to myself, why bother it doesn’t need torn to bits as it tears itself to bits. colin gets more illogical by each comment he makes.

    39. Capella says:

      I thought Willie Rennie sounded lost today at FMQs. After his outrageous insult to Nicola Sturgeon this week – calling her a liar – it may be that the pressure is becoming too great for him. He is feeling his position – irrelevant.

    40. Robert Peffers says:

      @geeo says: 1 February, 2018 at 2:31 pm:

      “If Ruthie tank commander cannot hear those alarm bells, she needs her lugs syringed.”

      Right once again geeo, except for that wee bit at the end – no point in syringing the lugs when it is the heid whit’s fu o wax.

    41. @Proud Cybernat

      according to International Sea Law the islands would be foreign enclaves on our continental shelf,

      they would have no rights to our oil or fishing,

      they threatened to leave if we got Independence and stay with Westminster,

      give them to Norway and they can dress up as Vikings all day long and burn things.

    42. velofello says:

      Net LibDem voting contribution -1. Ouch. That is so dry,so very dry.

    43. geeo says:

      @mr peffers..i stand corrected re: wax heid. lol

    44. Come on Scott Finlayson there some of us doing the best we can!!
      Drip drip and the pennies will drop

    45. Robert Peffers says:

      @jfngw says: 1 February, 2018 at 2:42 pm:

      “Willie using a reverse polish notation calculator and getting confused again.”

      No! No! You cannot confuse the already confused but you can confuse them more … but in Willie’s case you cannot confuse more the already totally confused.

    46. geeo says:

      Scott Finlayson has plenty of previous for postings such as this recent one.

      Scott is no friend of indy. We can manage fine without bigots and zoomers.

    47. geeo says:

      Robert is correct, if you confuse the confused, more, then the already confused will become confused about if they are actually confused, or more confused than their previously confused state of confusion.

    48. colin alexander says:

      Geoo and Robert Peffers

      “All referendums are advisory.” That’s false. They can be made binding by a statute, an act of parliament.

      WM isn’t going to do that.

      “The sovereign people” – I agree, but WM and the UK constitution say UK Parliament is sovereign. So, go on, take the UK to court and enforce Scottish sovereignty.

      “If a majority vote Yes,in ANY referendum, s.30 or not, it’s game over for the union due to Scots Sovereignty.”

      That is rubbish. UK Parliament is sovereign. ONLY Parliament votes count, MPs, Lords and Crown. So, go on, take the UK to court and enforce Scottish sovereignty; overturn the UK constitution.

      Popular democratic sovereignty does not exist in the UK constitution.

      Independence would need to be done by WM. Unless, Scotland declared independence first. Nobody has the bottle for that in the SNP or Wings.

    49. Dan Huil says:

      Lying Britnat scum.

      Also: It seems Capita is in a bit of financial trouble. Capita is the organization which collects [or tries to] the bbc tax. For those who have hesitated to stop paying the bbc tax now might be a good time to cancel that direct debit.

    50. orri says:

      Even more bizarre,

      The BBC reported on this last night and Rennie was on moaning about the SNP deliberately causing division in the LDs by unfairly providing adequate funding for some of their constituencies.

    51. PictAtRandom says:

      Can’t go along with Scott Finlayson and his “red-trousered” characterisation of Orkney and Shetland. We’ve had people post the same about parts of the NE and it really isn’t helpful. I don’t remember the islanders taking part in any popular vote to leave Scotland.

    52. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Scot Finlayson

      “…according to International Sea Law the islands would be foreign enclaves on our continental shelf,

      they would have no rights to our oil or fishing…

      Good. I just wanted to hear you say it.

    53. Auld Rock says:

      The Fib/Dems are a bunch of chancers, Scott and McArthur knew that it didn’t matter what way they voted but they were shrewd enough to know that they would have been hung out to dry if they had voted any other way when they got home. Scott came very close some years ago during the Fishermen’s blockade of Sullom Voe when he stood in front of them and swore his undying allegiance to their cause, then promptly got on the plane back to Edinburgh and VOTED AGAINST THEM. He was lucky that time that he wasn’t hung out to dry on the fish-dock.

    54. Auld Rock says:

      Scott, you are quite correct they would only have jurisdiction out to the twelve mile line and not an inch further.

    55. Vestas says:

      @ Dan Huil 4:19 pm

      “Also: It seems Capita is in a bit of financial trouble.”

      Amongst the IT profession they’re called Crapita for obvious reasons. They’ve been heading down the toilet for a few years now due to less taxpayers cash being splurged on their crap.

      They’re not necessarily another Carillion though as they’re still making quarter of a billion quid a year in profits IIRC.

      I bloody wish they were though, I (and many others) have been waiting 20+ years to see these wankers go down the crapper. Govt contracts (and contacts!) are all that’s kept them afloat for 15+ years.

    56. PictAtRandom says:

      Another reason Orkney & Shetland should stay with us —

      SFA Chief Executive Stewart Regan has stepped down.

      There’s Burning The Clavie, there’s Up-Helly-Aa — and then there’s The Blazers.

    57. geeo says:

      Here is the libdem official response on their facebook page, when informed they are talking pish regarding budget claims on ferry funding…

      To be fair, at least they responded, unlike the other 2 unionist goonshows pages.

      “The deal we secured between the Lib Dems and the Government was for our two Isles MSPs to vote for the budget in exchange for ferry funding being included. We disagree with the budget as a whole as it fails to invest in education and mental health so the rest of our group opposed the budget. Thanks”.

      Almost at coco levels of stupidity.

    58. Graeme says:

      I just watched FMQs just when you think UK Labour in Scotland had reached an all time low with Kezia Dugdale up pops Richard Leonard, what a complete and utter embarrassment that man is, and he’s considered the best they’ve got and the sad thing is he probably is.

      If I was Jeremy Corbyn I’d sack the fucking lot of them what a bunch of useless pointless tossers.

      Now I don’t mind them embarrassing themselves and their beloved party but they’re embarrassing Scotland and our parliament, why in gods name does anybody vote for these muppets

    59. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Here is a true tale of the LibDems

      A new housing development in my area seemed an appropriate case for a 40 mph speed limit on the road alongside it. Our local SNP cllr put the wheels in motion. It takes around 18 months to take the process through the checks etc before it goes ahead. A council election intervened and a new SNP cllr was elected. He continued the process pushing it along to the various bodies involved. Then he became ill and had to stand aside occasioning a by election. However he had assured us the speed limit had been agreed and would be shortly formally announced. The Lib Dem candidate (who had initially sought the Tory nomination in the ward)had also come into this information and then produced a pamphlet round the doors saying that a speed limit would be needed and he was starting a campaign for it.
      He was dishonestly trying to take the credit.
      We had to make up another leaflet pointing out that the two SNP councillors had started the process and carried it through and were confident of success.

      That’s the LibDems

    60. colin alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      An advisory referendum is not the exercising of sovereignty, it’s stating a preference.

      So, under English Law, the law of UK Parliament, tell me how the devolved SNP Govt legislate for legal independence on the back of an advisory referendum between Autumn 2018 and their mandate ending in 2021. They can’t under the Scotland Act. You think the UK Govt will drop everything to legislate for indy for Scotland?

      If the UK Govt just ignores a referendum opinion poll, What you gonnae do, write nasty insults to them with Geeoo? haha.

      What happened to sovereignty when the FM wrote to the UK Govt with the mandate for indyref to discuss talks for indyref? Lying unanswered. The FM Mocked.

    61. geeo says:

      I see coco now thinks there is such a thing as a uk constitution…!!

      Go on coco…link to this document so we can all read it.

      Dear god…will someone please think of the poor villagers missing their idiot. (the one who cannot read the written word properly)

      THIS is what i wrote, coco..
      ALL referendum are advisory, UNLESS by previous agreement (s.30).


    62. Dan Huil says:

      @Vestas 4:19pm

      Thanks for the info, Vestas. All the more reason to not pay the bbc tax.

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @Proud Cybernat says: 1 February, 2018 at 3:34 pm:

      “Give Orkney & Shetland back to Norway? Okay – so go and look at a map of the North Sea and see just how much of Scotland’s oil & gas resources would then be in Norwegian waters.”

      Actually, Proud Cybernat, not one drop of Scottish oil or whiff of gas resources would be lost if Orkney or Shetland or both were other than parts of Scotland, or indeed if they just became independent of Scotland. As both lie within Scottish Territorial waters, recognised as being under Scottish legal jurisdiction, (under the International Law of the Seas).

      They would both be legally, “Enclaves”, within Scottish territory.

      enclave – noun.

      A portion of territory surrounded by a larger territory whose inhabitants are culturally or ethnically distinct.


      A place or group that is different in character from those surrounding it.

      Mid 19th century: from French, from Old French enclaver ‘enclose, dovetail’, based on Latin clavis ‘key’.

      However the international law goes even further, (while legally protecting the enclave’s right of access to sea & air routes by reserved links), the law extends to include the 200 mile Continental Shelf mark of the larger territory where the enclave is situated. If the distance between the enclave and the mainland is less than 24 miles the border is drawn equidistant from both.

      So these Northern Isles would have a narrow air and sea lane to gain access to international waters and airspace and 12 miles or a equidistant border if there was not 12 clear miles. What is more they would have to negotiate such things as phone, gas and electricity undersea links as well as set up and negotiate customs and excise deals with Scotland. Not to mention limited or no ferry access and high charges for ferry crossings.

    64. Andy Anderson says:

      Made a mistake once, years ago, and voted Libdem. Luckily my psychiatric treatment worked.

    65. Robert Graham says:

      Aye i suppose a each way bet covers it then .

      Listen Wullie try and sit down for a minute jumping up and down makes you look childish .

      I bet the folk who voted fur Wullie are so proud today , and the rest of the village are wondering where the Idiot went .

    66. gus1940 says:

      O/T Brexit

      As each day passes the signs of desperation grow more evident for the Brexiteer swivel-eyed politicians and their media fan club.

      The shrieking attacks on the allegedly tractorous Remainers and the hysterical lies promising some sort of Promised Land at the other end of the Brexit Rainbow lead me to think that they are seriously starting to think that Brexit may not happen.

      Obviously if Brexit goes ahead and the terms of exit are as bad as foreseen by the sane amongst the population it would obviously result in Indyref2 with an almost certain YES Victory leading us to Indpendence.

      However, If Brexit does not go ahead it would be far better for an Independent Scotland if the RumpUK were to remain in the EU which poses the question ‘Would we still be likely to win Indyref2 under that scenario?’.

    67. PictAtRandom says:

      One thing that you could say to LibDem voters is “Do you know who it is that you’re voting with?”

      Look at the selective way in which their vote in Gordon collapsed in favour of the Tories. As did their vote in David Steel Country — now down to less than 5%. And yet not in Caithness, Sutherland &c where they actually overtook the SNP.

    68. Ann says:

      Not a Labour MSP supported the budget.
      Have they no shame?

    69. Marcia says:

      It will soon be Valentines day. The love affair between Willie Rennie and himself should be made into a film. Should be low budget, just him and a mirror. Starring Willie Rennie, directed by Willie Rennie and only watched by Willie Rennie.

    70. Northern Islander says:

      It comes very naturally to them. Did you know that Alistair Carmichael is an anagram of ‘I cheat scam liar liar’ (really)

    71. Proud Cybernat says:

      Nicola Sturgeon = “a cool insurgent”.

      Just sayin’.

    72. Bob Mack says:

      Our resident troll still wading in the Augean stables up to his neck in bullshit.

      Get this bud. Scotland is not ripe for military intervention. You got that? Indy will be gained by legal peaceful means.
      It may take patience you obviously lack, but it will be done.

      Are you by any chance a RISE supporter? We have listened to fools for centuries. You epitomise that.
      Today our only road to indy is the SNP. Everybody else is a small cog in a big machine. I will take Nicolas road , whilst you arm yourself for insurrection.

      I know who will come out best. It ain’t you.

    73. Dan Huil says:

      @Marcia 5:30pm

      Willie Rennie’s new b-movie: Shameless in Strathmiglo

    74. ronnie anderson says:

      If confuddled ye ur then confuddled ye be
      but Wullie Ur no confuddlin me .

    75. @Fiona MacInnes

      I do apologize to all true Scots on the Orkney and Shetland Islands,

      68% of Orkney and 64% of Shetland voted against our Independence two of the biggest margins outside Morningside and The Grange (demographic similar ?) and they also knowingly elected a proven liar to represent them,


      the Vikings were utter barstewrds to Scotland,we had enough trouble with the English without 400 years of constant attacks ,pillaging, wilful destruction ,slavery,murder from the Norwegians,

      think it was celebrating this during Up Helly Ah pish that pushed me over the edge.

    76. Robert Graham says:

      Ann @ 5.27 eh thinking



      Ever had any ? – Debatable

      Ever likely to discover any ? Not a hope in hell , and it will Freeze over before they do

    77. Thepnr says:

      Some of you clearly do not get as fed up as I do listening to a scratched record repeat the same tune over and over as it’s stuck in a tediously repetitive cycle in article after article.

      Tune out or put ear plugs in. Don’t inflict the torture on everyone else by forcing us to listen and allowing the record to keep spinning.

      Change the record or help switch it off. It’s a crap tune anyway.

    78. Vestas says:

      @ Dan Huil 5:13 pm

      @Vestas 4:19pm

      “Thanks for the info, Vestas.”

      Oh and just in case anyone starts wailing about the “jobs”, Capita are the fuckers who do TUPE stuff then a couple of years down the line its minimum wage zero contracts and offshored to another Indian scam centre.

      Capita are scum and (at least for their minimum/living wage employees) its hard to see how them going bust wouldn’t make their employees working life better and more secure.

      All of the above is obviously my personal opinion as they have, perhaps not continents of lawyers but certainly cities of them 🙂

    79. TheWasp says:

      The pnr, I called the army boy a fud weeks ago, and he said I was disrespectful and basically uncouth. I noted to him about his typed “Scottish” use of words last night, and he ignored me for about the fourth or fifth time, so just get him telt for what he really is and ignore him too.

    80. Clootie says:

      …clever voting tactic…always on the winning side ?

    81. geeo says:

      So…bets on who voted AGAINST the domestic abuse bill tonight ?

      118 for

      1 against.

      Dugdale having button trouble again ?

    82. colin alexander says:

      Bob Mack says:
      1 February, 2018 at 5:42 pm

      “Get this bud. Scotland is not ripe for military intervention… Indy will be gained by legal peaceful means.”

      Glad to hear it.

      So, Geeo thinks the Scot Govt would hold an independence referendum without a S30, so, outwith the legal powers of the Scottish Govt / Scot Parliament.

      The UK Govt declare it unlawful, at the very least. They would also say Scotland can only become independent by Statute of the UK parliament ( Crown / Govt, Lords and Commons).

      So, Bob Mack, by which legal, peaceful means do you advise Geeo that the Scot Govt should follow to achieve indy?

      If the UK Govt continues to refuse a S30 till there’s no time for another indyref and subsequent legislation, what then?

    83. geeo says:

      Oh dear…tory member and justice committee member Margaret Mitchell voted against the Bill, blaming not having her glasses on…!!

    84. geeo says:

      Coco…i already offered you the chance to attend the next Wings night out and discuss face to face your points of view.

      Offer still stands chump.

      I personally guarantee your safety, can’t say fairer than that.

      Well ?

    85. Calum McKay says:

      Magnificient result for the liberals, leading the way and making Scotland a better place for all to live. Looks like Willie Rennie and his team will be headed for power in 2021.

      Wake up Willie, you dozed off, time for your bed!

    86. Indy2 says:

      The Domestic Abuse Bill 118-1 Votes:

      Conservative MSP Margaret Mitchell accidentally voted against the Bill, with the party putting the mistake down to the fact that she had not been wearing her glasses.

      Read more at:

    87. Shinty says:

      O/T – could be wrong, but was Thatchers hubby not involved with Capita (around the time they were given the contract to collect the BBC tax?)

      It’s a tory boy world folks.

    88. ronnie anderson says:

      geeo its polute tae add rsvp tae a invitation.

    89. geeo says:

      My bad

    90. Clootie says:

      Willie Rennie or Nicola Sturgeon?

      “If you hang out with chickens you are going to cluck. If you hang out with eagles you are going to soar”

    91. PictAtRandom says:

      And if you vote with turkeys…

      “Soar” Caesar!

    92. ronnie anderson says:

      A Wee Ode to The Fantastically Wealthy, Lady Mone, Baroness of Mayfair.

      Lady Mone. 31st January 2018.

      The screaming banshee flew into rage
      But should anyone here be surprised?
      Like a rank rabid dog, she showed us her teeth
      While she tried on a new bra for size!
      The beast in her bosom wretched with evil intent,
      (Is she seducing us lecherous Scots)?
      The moronic Mone is no more than a clone
      Whose types should block out their thoughts!
      The Halls she meanders, pumped up with candour
      At her entrepreneurial rise
      But the lingerie queen who some now think obscene
      Just strolls down and flickers her eyes
      These new found friends, Ladies, are no Jessies or Sadies
      These are the suave, debonair
      But how can they feel repulsed when most have no pulse,
      This is the Baroness of London’s Mayfair.

      Paul Colvin.

    93. heedtracker says:

      Clootie says:
      1 February, 2018 at 7:10 pm
      Willie Rennie or Nicola Sturgeon?

      “If you hang out with chickens you are going to cluck. If you hang out with eagles you are going to soar”

      FibDem logo’s a birdie, a turkey perhaps.

      Its not funny though. That crew changed the world getting Cameron’s tory creep show in, just with Brexit, whatisface Cable, Sir Daniel Alexander, he legged it to the far east bankster quango network, the oddball Farron that keeps saying same sex marriage is and isn’t a sin, in the eyes of the Lord.

      “Thy Lord seest thee” is on a plate on my Nana’s kitchen wall, also.

      Its probably the FibDem frustration at not being able to just say out loud, “ah fcuk it, yes, I am a toryboy, out me, Vince!”

    94. geeo says:

      Ever wondered why theres no oil in them thar English waters ?

      Ever doubt the West Coast will have plenty as well?

      Geological history is the answer.

      Interesting wee article on how we happened to crash land next to England.

    95. Reluctant Nationalist says:

      @ indy2, 7pm

      From that article, Dr Marsha Scott of SWA said that this new law ‘does not blame women’.

    96. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi geeo at 6:48 pm.

      You typed,
      “Coco…i already offered you the chance to attend the next Wings night out and discuss face to face your points of view.
      Offer still stands chump.
      I personally guarantee your safety, can’t say fairer than that.
      Well ?”

      Just to remind y’all…
      The next scheduled WOS get-together is in Glenrothes on 7th April. Check into ‘off-topic’ for updates.

    97. colin alexander says:


      I did respond to your post where you said Scooby.

    98. colin alexander says:


      Who knows, if people started debating on here with courtesy and respect and I had more free time, maybe I’d pop in to liven up the debate.

      Where do youse meet up?

    99. Clootie says:

      …yes colin. You have proven once again with that last statement that you have NOT been on Wings for years and years

    100. ronnie anderson says:

      Best of british if you just happen to be a american company ‘ if they hurry up & rebuild it they might get Trump to open it .

    101. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      PictAtRandom at 5.26

      The Tories and the LibDems came to a unionist accommodation and targeted different seats against the SNP in that “snap” election,. There actually is virtually none of the old Liberal vote surviving in Highland Scotland – only a useful conduit for anti SNP votes provided by fake LibDem candidates where the Tories are unlikely to win.

      The arrangement didn’t work in Argyll and Bute where(thankfully) the wrong candidate (LibDem) was backed when backing of the Tory candidate instead would have beaten the SNP

    102. McDuff says:

      Rev, you are worth your weight in gold a hundred times over.
      You continually unearth the truth from the mire of deceit that is thrown at the Scottish public on a daily basis. You have exposed again the dishonesty of a party that has long since lost all credibility and integrity and it beggers belief that these people hold government office

    103. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      I should have mentioned that much of the old Liberal sentiment in the Highlands has gone to the SNP and not to the LibDems which is mostly a soft Tory vote that Thatcher etc drove away from the Tories.

      I don’t think the LibDems actually exist as a coherent political body in Highland Scotland and are largely a convenient fantasy production maintained by the anti SNP media.

      I was friends with a LibDem councillor who confessed to me that the LibDems were at that point holding Argyll and Bute with less than two dozen signed up members.

    104. geeo says:


      Cheers for that, i have a good friend up in Glenrothes, might just try get up to that one.

      I have a couple of trips due around that time to be arranged (Belfast and Amsterdam) so will get back to you once dates are confirmed.

      Well coco ?

      7th april in Glenrothes ?

      Put up or shut up time for the village idiot !

    105. Hamish100 says:


      BBC Brian toodleoodthenoo apologises on behalf of the new English minister of state for not understanding his brief over brexit and the devolved nations. He’s new you see. Needs time to get up to speed with his brief despite all his civil service support and Governer General Mundell advising……… mmmmm I get his point!

      ot 2 Re the Viking panto in Shetland. Made up last century. Good for the tourists though and folk have a good night in the dark dreich nights. The Vikings invaded indigenous settlers and no sooner had Scotland got rid of them at the Battle of Largs in 1263 then a southern neighbour invaded. The Largs Viking Festival organisers are apparently headed up by pro-unionist clique and brexiters led by a well known labour councillor. You would almost think they wanted the Vikings to win. Saltires being replaced with union flags-Historical? accurate? nope. Lets declare more Saltire days.

    106. colin alexander says:

      Clootie says:
      1 February, 2018 at 7:58 pm

      “…yes colin. You have proven once again with that last statement that you have NOT been on Wings for years and years”

      Apparently, Wings twitter in 2015 does not count as Wings.
      Supplying the main material for an article in 2015 does not count, unless I wrote the whole article and asked for my name to be put to it.

      So, okay, if you say so. Whatever you say.

    107. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi colin alexander at 7:39 pm.

      You asked,
      “Where do youse meet up?”

      By asking that question, you have proved that you are generating comments on here, without reference to comments that have gone before. That’s what we tend to term “A bot”.

      I would remind you of my post at 7.30pm.

    108. Hamish100 says:

      is it true that pro Union Barrhead Travel has sold up to the yanks?
      Union flag half mast or upside down please

    109. geeo says:

      @hamish 500.

      Toodleoothenoo was at it at FMQ’s continually talking over our chap (name escapes me) yet allowing private fraser to chit chat shit undisturbed.

      Weasly wee barsturd with faux-Trump barnet ambition.

    110. galamcennalath says:

      OT This made me laugh. Absolute über BritNat loony in the Telegraph …

      The EU refuses a soft Brexit, so we must invoke the WTO immediately


      Those who called for a clean Brexit from the outset were right. The Franco-German axis is determined to make a soft arrangement impossible. Any further talking at this point wastes time and tightens the noose around our own necks.

      If Britain is to leave the EU – as it must, after a clear popular vote, endorsed by Parliament, and written into the Tory and Labour manifestos – the only way to do so with economic and political coherence is to reassert full sovereign self-government.

      Gaun yersel Ambrose 🙂

      The Telegraph, working hard every day to bring Scottish independence just that little bit closer.

    111. yesindyref2 says:

      What’s remarkable is that colin alexander isn’t an anagram for “dog food salesman licks anal suppository”. Not a lot of people know that.

    112. galamcennalath says:

      Hamish100 says:

      is it true that pro Union Barrhead Travel has sold up to the yanks?

      Seems to be.

      ” Barrhead founder, Bill Munro, will serve in a strategic advisory role as chairman of the Barrhead division within Travel Leaders Group. “

      … well, I hope they understand he might not act in their best interests when IndyRef2 is called!

    113. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Hamish100 @8.22: funny thing is, the last thing I read about O&S DNA seemed to indicate most islanders were of the original Pictish stock, despite how they view themselves now, and have much in common therefore with NE mainland Scotland.

      It’s a funny old game, Saint.

    114. colin alexander says:


      What’s the timetable again?

      Indyref announced Sept 2018

      FM asks for S30


      2019 Scotland as part of the UK is out of the EU and out of the Single Market.

      Still waiting for S30

      2021 Spring still waiting for a S30.

      2021 Scot Parl election. Majority of Unionist MSPS. SNP administration forced into more deals with the Tories and Labour just to get anything done.

      Indyref motion defeated at sham of a seriously weakened Scottish Parliament following power grab and Scottish Office / quango administration of power over Scotland bypassing the Scot Parl.

      Indyref turns out to be once in a generation after all.

      Yesindyref2 changes his nickname to “it-was-once-in-a-lifetime-indyref” while he worries if he can afford the private hospital fees, now that the SNHS no longer exists and he’s a senior citizen with the ailments that come with age.

    115. Zara Pennington says:

      Just wanted to say that as a Shetlander who has worked in Orkney and involved with the Yes Movement in both counties as well as being a representative of the Highlands and Islands for Women for Independence ,some of the comments on this page hardy help the work we are doing at promoting independence in the islands nor in making islanders want to identify as Scottish.

      This does not help the whole of Scotland get away from Westminster rule and also if had to choose UK or Norway i would pick Norway every time for Orkney and Shetland, but i would much prefer us to be all part of Independent outward looking and progressive Scotland that delivers for all its people. Something i believe this budget is step towards. and no matter what over disagreements i may have with them credit to Tavish and Liam for voting with the Scottish Government to deliver it their constituents deserved no less.

    116. Dan Huil says:

      From the Irish Times:

      “A border for people and goods on the island of Ireland is inevitable if the UK leaves the customs union, EU agriculture commissioner Phil Hogan has said.

      Speaking to the Association of European Journalists in Dublin, Mr Hogan said it was clear that if the British government adhered to its current position of leaving the customs union and the single European market, a border could not be avoided.

      “There is an inevitability about a border on the island of Ireland if the current position of the UK government does not change,” said Mr Hogan.

      He said the commitment to avoid a hard border, which was agreed in the first phase of talks between the EU and the UK, was welcome, but the really tough negotiations have yet to come. “Phase one of the talks was like the National League, but the Championship is just about to start. That will be the decider.”

      He said the Irish Government and the business sector needed to prepare for the worst while hoping that it would not happen.

      Mr Hogan said he did not think there was any prospect of the UK moving back from the decision to leave the EU regardless of who was in government in London.”

      What happens in the north of Ireland will be influencial to Scotland’s future.

    117. Brian McHugh says:

      Just watched FMQ’s.

      It’s quite the thing that physically where the party’s are all seated, has Labour on the ‘crazy bonkers’ far left… the Tory’s on the extreme far right, the SNP in the sensible middle, the Greens to the left of centre in the background… and the Lib Dems… eh… somewhere I would presume.

    118. colin alexander says:

      Tinto Chiel

      The Norse were more technically advanced.

      They had Harald Bluetooth over a thousand years ago.

    119. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Graham says: 1 February, 2018 at 5:19 pm:

      “I bet the folk who voted fur Wullie are so proud today , and the rest of the village are wondering where the Idiot went.”

      Willie apparently lives in Kelty now and no one I know even knows Willie lives in the village and even less of them care. Some don’t even know what a LibDem is – or care.

    120. colin alexander says:

      There was also an infamous Viking leader called Ivar the Boneless, which some suggest described someone with weak bones, but I think it was a Viking with the same affliction as some commenters on here.

      That’s why Ivar was so ill-tempered, just like the ones on here.

    121. colin alexander says:

      “By asking that question, you have proved that you are generating comments on here, without reference to comments that have gone before. That’s what we tend to term “A bot”.”

      No,it proves WoS isnae Twitter, it regularly lags before comments appear. Then several new comments appear at once.

      So people moan: my comment hasnae appeared, beside their earlier comment that appears at the same time.

    122. Fred says:

      @ Tinto, I think the Norse DNA is about half in Shetland, the Scots have been colonising the islands since before they became part of Scotland and possibly none are of the old Pictish stock? Shits like Tavish Scott is off penny-pinching Scots lairds who robbed the Shetlander’s blind & none of that class starved in the famine of the 1840’s. There are more Norse words in Lewis Gaelic than used in Shetland so Scandahooligan is a big chunk of Scotland’s make-up, not just Shetland. Had a Shetland grannie masel!

    123. colin alexander says:

      The FM described the prospect of being taken out of the European Union against Scotland’s will as “democratically indefensible”.

      What’s SNP policy now? Soft Brexit.

      What is Soft Brexit?

      Being taken out of the European Union against Scotland’s will.

      At least she’s honest about that SNP policy being democratically indefensible – as is Hard Brexit from Tories and Labour.

      Whereas a 62% Remain vote achieved by a referendum, which is democratically defensible, is now forgotten.

      They mean well, trying to make the best of a bad situation. But it’s a mistake to concede a democratic vote.

    124. Bill Hume says:

      I do really wonder whether there is a team of Colins or just one completely hyped up chap existing on benzedrine?

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @colin alexander says: 1 February, 2018 at 4:59 pm:

      “An advisory referendum is not the exercising of sovereignty, it’s stating a preference.”

      You do blether a right load of pish, colin.

      Item 1 – There is absolutely no doubt that under Scots law the people, not the crown are legally sovereign. That has been stated by a ruling of the High court of Scotland. The statement claimed that the concept of a monarch being sovereign is not known under Scots law.

      Item 2 – The legal sovereignty in the kingdom of England was legally changed in the Kingdom of England by the English parliament’s, “Glorious Revolution”. Until then the Rule of Law was, “The Divine Right of Kings”. As you seem a little slow on such matters, colin, I’ll spell it out for you. The Divine Right of Kings meant that God chose who would become the next in line to the throne by first of all having a person born in a royal womb and secondly by deciding if that next in line would live to ascend the throne. Thus no matter what kings said or did it was by God’s will.

      When the English parliament of 1688 rebelled against their rightful monarch and deposed him they were not brave enough to usurp God’s will and offered the crown to Mary of Orange on condition that she legally delegated her Divine Right to the Parliament of England. Mary, at first, turned them down because she refused to make her Husband William play second fiddle to herself.

      The English parliamentarians then offered the crown to both Mary and Billy jointly but still on condition they delegated their Divine Right to the Parliament of the Kingdom of England. In 1688 both the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were independent kingdoms and had been under the ruling of the Holy Roman Se since 1320. Thus the fact is that the Parliament of England had no legal say in the Parliament of Scotland so their deposing of their monarch could have no legal bearing in Scotland.

      In Scotland the Holy Roman Se had received the Declaration of Arbroath and, probably because the English Monarchy had appointed themselves as leaders of the Christian Church, accepted the Declaration of Arbroath that first of all declared that Scotland was independent of England but further stated that the people had legal right to throw out a monarch who they thought unworthy, and I quote:-

      “To him, as to the man by whom salvation has been wrought unto our people, we are bound both by his right and by his merits that our freedom may be still maintained, and by him, come what may, we mean to stand.

      Yet if he should give up what he has begun, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own right and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King; for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. “

      “So, under English Law,”

      English Law does not apply in Scotland, colin, and it is not the law of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,. Westminster certainly legislates using English Law but it then adds wee bits, rather like a codicil adds an addition to a will, that changes, explains, revokes, or adds provisions or an appendix or a supplement to the will.

      So there you go, colin. First of all English law and Scottish Law are forever legally totally sacrosanct, (and I quote from the Treaty of Union – (Article of Union number 19)).

      “THAT the Court of Session, or Colledge of Justice, do after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations for the better Administration of Justice, as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that hereafter none shall be named by Her Majesty, or her royal Successors, to be ordinary Lords of Session but such who have served in the Colledge of Justice as Advocates, or principal Clerks of Session for the Space of five Years; or as Writers to the Signet for the Space of ten Years, with this Provision, That no Writer to the Signet be capable to be admitted a Lord of the Session, unless he undergo a private and publick Tryal on the Civil Law, before the Faculty of Advocates and be found by them qualified for the said Office, two Years before he be named to be a Lord of the Session; yet to as the Qualifications made, or to be made, for capacitating Persons to be named ordinary Lords of Session, may be altered by the Parliament of Great Britain. And that the Court of Justiciary do also after the Union, and notwithstanding thereof, remain in all time coming within Scotland, as it is now constituted by the Laws of that Kingdom, and with the same Authority and Privileges as before the Union, subject nevertheless to such Regulations as shall be made by the Parliament of Great Britain, and without Prejudice of other Rights of Justiciary; and that all Admiralty Jurisdictions be under the Lord High Admirall or Commissioners for the Admiralty of Great Britain for the time being, and that the Court of Admiralty now established in Scotland be continued, and that all Reviews, Reductions, or Suspensions of the Sentences in Maritime Cases, competent to the Jurisdiction of that Court, remain in the same Manner after the Union, as now in Scotland, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall make such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be judged expedient for the whole United Kingdom, so as there be always continued in Scotland a Court of Admiralty, such as in England, for Determination of all Maritime Cases relating to private Rights in Scotland competent to the Jurisdiction of the Admiralty Court, subject nevertheless to such Regulations and Alterations as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that the Heritable Rights of Admiralty and Vice-Admiralties in Scotland be reserved to the respective Proprietors as Rights of Property, subject nevertheless, as to the Manner of exercising such heritable Rights, to such Regulations and Alterations, as shall be thought proper to be made by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all other Courts now in being within the Kingdom of Scotland do remain, but subject to Alterations by the Parliament of Great Britain; and that all inferior Courts within the said Limits do remain subordinate, as they are now, to the supreme Courts of Justice within the same, in all time coming; and that no Causes in Scotland be cognoscible by the Courts of Chancery, Queens-Bench, Common-Pleas, or any other Court in Westminster-hall; and that the said Courts, or any other of the like Nature, after the Union, shall have no Power to cognosce, review, or alter the Acts or Sentences of the Judicatures within Scotland, or stop the Execution of the same; and that there be a Court of Exchequer in Scotland after the Union, for deciding Questions concerning the Revenues of Customs and Excises there, having the same Power and Authority in such Cases, as the Court of Exchequer has in England; and that the said Court of Exchequer in Scotland have Power of passing Signatures, Gifts, Tutories, and in other Things, as the Court of Exchequer at present in Scotland hath; and that the Court of Exchequer that now is in Scotland do remain, until a new Court of Exchequer be settled by the Parliament of Great Britain in Scotland after the Union; and that after the Union, the Queen’s Majesty, and her royal Successors, may continue a Privy Council in Scotland, for preserving of publick Peace and Order, until the Parliament of Great Britain shall think fit to alter it, or establish any other effectual method for that end.”

      If you disagree then I suggest you take the matter up with the High Court of Scotland for they have indeed ruled that these concepts do not occur under Scots law.

      There is only one reason that the people of Scotland’s legal sovereignty has not superseded much of Westminster’s legislation and that reason is, that to date, they have not as an organised group, told their delegate and elected by them, members of, either or both parliaments, to exercise the people’s legal sovereignty.

      When they do, and they will, as we say in Scotland, The Westminster ba is oan the slates”.

    126. Lenny Hartley says:

      Fred , just googled Orkney and Shetland dna and research says about 25% Norwegian (Viking ) DNA, sorry it was on bbc website , so not posting link as too busy and battery about to expire before I can Archive

    127. Rock says:

      “And that’s how we check facts, readers.”

      Pure brilliant.

      The fake “independence supporting” The National doesn’t need to check facts.

      All it has to do is pay the Rev. Stuart Campbell a decent fee to write its front page headline news everyday.

    128. ronnie anderson says:

      BDTT wiz that ah resident o Liff you wuz coversationaling wie

    129. heedtracker says:

      Fred says:
      1 February, 2018 at 9:48 pm
      @ Tinto, I think the Norse DNA is about half in Shetland, the Scots have been colonising the islands since before they became part of Scotland and possibly none are of the old Pictish stock?

      I’d counter that with the archeology though. Brochs are famous on Shetland but they all over mainland Scotland, literally everywhere, from the borders all over the west and east coast, Sutherland, everywhere in modern Scotland. There a none in Ireland, modern England or Scandinavia.

      Before the Pict era, there’s all the neolithic archeology, some of it vandalised by Viking raiders.

      So looking at the archeology of Shetland and Orkney, its the other way round, with the Pict islands under sustained Viking assault, just like the mainland, just as England got in massive waves, Ireland too, Dublin is a Viking town and ofcourse modern France, where the Vikings took over, became the Normans, and what ever happened to that lot of Vikings:D

    130. Bill not Ben says:

      I have just recieved a letter from my pal in hollywood, he said i have some great news for you, they are going to make a film and they are looking for 3 scots to play the title roles.
      well i wrote back to him straight away,i said i have 3 scots people that are fantastic actors, they are called Davidson,Leonard,and Rennie, what will the film be called i asked my friend in hollywood.
      Oh, he said it will be great,its a remake of the three stooges, well i said, the three i told you about are exactly what the film needs

    131. Rock says:

      Bob Mack,

      “Let’s face it folks. The majority of these Unionist politicians are actually dense.”

      They have done a pretty good job in keeping Scotland a colony of England for 310 years.

      The Lib Dems increased their MPs by a staggering 400% at the last election and got the Right Honourable Carmichael re-elected.

      Because the most stupid people on earth are in Scotland.

    132. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Been doing a lot of scrolling on catchup tonight. There’s someone on here who talks too much. Far too much.

      It’s not polite.

    133. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Oh dammit, here’s the other one now as well. As predictable as clockwork. With content just as boringly predictable.

    134. colin alexander says:

      Robert Peffers

      Thank you for the detailed response; it is much appreciated.

      So, you being a SNP member for decades will remember SNP policy for decades: the election of a majority of SNP candidates as Scots MPs will be a mandate for the negotiated independence of Scotland, or words to that effect.

      Based on the political convention of democratic mandate of the (sovereign) people. (So, were the SNP anarchists seeking civil war and military occupation by the British Army? )

      Now, it’s indyref based on that same convention of democratic mandate from a manifesto mandate of 45.5% of the electorate on a multi-subject SNP manifesto.

      But an election victory, even with 50% +1 of the electorate, the majority vote, would not be a mandate for independence; that would be illegal succession. A rebellion. UDI. Illegal. An act of anarchy.

      But, indyref by a devolved assembly now called govt, operating under the Scotland Act 2016 which by legal statute explicitly reserves matters of the Union to WM Parliament; that is legal – even without a S30? That’s what I’m told.

      Your views on that, sir?

    135. heedtracker says:

      All it has to do is pay the Rev. Stuart Campbell a decent fee to write its front page headline news everyday.

      Rock Tuesday’s The National had a really funny front page piss take of the latest SLabour leader Leonard nobody, huge full page photo, he’s looking a right gleck, all kinds of numbers flying round his feel heed, with the great big headline,

      “Leonard, for FM of Scotland, are fcucking kidding”

      I added the headline Rock. You can probably see why I’m not an editor of anything:D

    136. heedtracker says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      1 February, 2018 at 10:35 pm
      Oh dammit, here’s the other one now as well. As predictable as clockwork. With content just as boringly predictable.

      Hey, don’t be mean to Rock. He thinks I am a clever Scot and schmoozing gets you anywhere btl, right Rock.

      Rock and Colin A, the Chuckle Brothers, one wants SNP out, t’other wants a psychiatrist.

    137. Thepnr says:

      This is getting dreary now, I’ll be taking a break for a while as fed up with the bacon rolls.

      Why some of you must engage with them beats me, it really does.

    138. yesindyref2 says:

      Talking about dog food salesman and colin robertson in the same dog’s breath, don’t remember seeing the salesman’s usual lapdog phil robertson posting here for some time.

    139. ronnie anderson says:

      Am gonnae watch that gish QT wie ah gottle of gear , i’ll be back

    140. colin alexander says:

      Viking DNA

      There is Y chromosome DNA passed from males and female X chromosome DNA.

      The Vikings robbed, murdered and pillaged. They did not slaughter all the native populations, just those they couldn’t enslave or exploit, such as warriors.

      They subjugated them. Exploited them. Taxed them. Enslaved them.

      A bit like the UK Union nowadays.

      They had Yarls which became the Earls of the House of Lords.

      The Vikings had the Poll Tax and those who could not pay had their nose sliced open, so “paid through the nose”.

      The Tories did the same. But did it by Warrant Sales and benefit / wage arrestment with surcharges.

    141. colin alexander says:

      Viking DNA

      Viking means pirate.

      There is Y chromosome DNA passed from males and female X chromosome DNA.

      The Vikings robbed, murdered and pillaged. Then colonised. They did not slaughter all the native populations, just those they couldn’t enslave or exploit, such as warriors.

      They subjugated them. Exploited them. Taxed them. Enslaved them.

      A bit like Scotland’s place in the UK Union nowadays.

      They had Yarls which became the Earls of the House of Lords.

      The Vikings had the Poll Tax and those who could not pay had their nose sliced open, so “paid through the nose”.

      The Tories did the same. But did it by Warrant Sales and benefit / wage arrestment with surcharges.

    142. Indy2 says:

      Thepnr 10.45pm

      A feel yer pain big man.

      Sensible Dave
      Colin Alexander

      and a very soft Rev all go towards making Jack a very dull boy.

    143. Meg merrilees says:

      Just away to listen to FMQ’s – looking forward to this one.

      How many of you heard ANY announcement today that the Queensferry Crossing became the M90 today?

      Funny how they have forgotten all about ‘that bridge’ and did we hear that the repaired ‘Forth Bridge ‘ had also re-opened???

      The only thing I saw about that was an article, which I didnae even bother to read because it was entitled something like ‘Forth Bridge opened but still needing ‘repairs”. Stuff them!

    144. ronnie anderson says:

      I Am Not British. 1st February 2018.

      We are British through enforcement
      And that’s a word that’s much maligned
      But the atrocities that go with it
      Can never enter feeble minds.

      You can hide behind your finery
      Or underneath your Butcher’s rag
      But your history you’ll never know
      For your Lawlords keep you gagged.

      Your ignorance is paramount
      To the ones you idolise, adore
      And as long as there are sheep like you
      We will live in those days of yore.

      What are these British values
      That you pronounce with so much pride?
      It’s just your modern stance on bigotry
      From a past you try to hide!

      You proudly fly the British Union flag
      Whilst you burn your country’s own
      Then, with fervour, sing its anthem
      Whilst Scotland’s, you disown!

      You tell me Britain is a nation
      But a nation it is not
      Scotland is my country
      And I will always be a Scot.

      Paul Colvin.

      Chist hud tae get that in before You snod off .

    145. colin alexander says:

      Apologies for the duplicate post.


      In 2017, I voted SNP and Green at the Council Elections and SNP in the GE.

      So, I am not anti-SNP, just anti-Daily Record, anti-Soft Brexit policy when Scotland voted Remain.

      I’m Pro-independence by democratic mandate, either by election poll or referendum poll, NOT handcuffed by an indyref policy designed to play it safe with SNP politicians jobs which puts us in a Gordian Knot constitutional bind under the Scotland Act and devolution.

    146. Highland Wifie says:

      BBC news website
      Call to repopulate Scotland’s cleared land.
      “Communities were forced off the areas in the 18th and 19th centuries to make way for AGRICULTURAL IMPROVEMENTS.”


    147. colin alexander says:


      “Not Now. Now’s not the time.”

      So, is that Indy2 without an S30, a glorified. possibly illegal opinion poll about the Union, Indy2?

    148. mr thms says:

      This list gives the dates when member countries joined the EU.

      The EU has recently told the UK that it wants the transitional arrangements to end on 31st December 2020.

      I’m wondering if the EU has pencilled in the 1st January 2021 for its newest members from the former UK joining?

    149. Dr Jim says:

      The Queensferry crossing’s a vanity project
      Hospitals are vanity projects
      Roads are vanity projects

      See when Davidson said she’d get rid of waste I was screaming at the Telly, Scotland office bloody Scotland office say it Nicola, or Mundell standing behind another new boss pockets filled with Gypsy creams waiting make his tea

      There’s only one Tory in Holyrood that’s worth her money and it’s Annie Wells, she’s just the funniest and stupidist most incompetent idiot who can barely put a coherent sentence together and the perfect representation of all things Conservative on the planet, and the funniest of all is she joined the Tories by accident, coz when they phoned her to let her know she was on the list she had to ask for which party
      So if it had been Labour she’d have been just as delighted at the thought of sitting next to James Kelly, I mean she accomplished what Cat Boyd and all her TV and press backing couldn’t do
      although she is a wee bit smarter than Cat Boyd

      I still have belly laughs at the thought of it

    150. Andrew Brophy says:

      The “Liberal” “Democrats” are the most arrogant, self-serving, cynical,opportunistic, horrible political party on the island of Great Britain. They are without principle or intellectual standing.Their Scottish leader epitomises his party.

    151. heedtracker says:

      Indy2 says:
      1 February, 2018 at 10:55 pm
      Thepnr 10.45pm

      A feel yer pain big man.

      Sensible Dave
      Colin Alexander

      and a very soft Rev all go towards making Jack a very dull boy.

      Well don’t read any btl troll stuff indy2. duh.

      Here’s good olde The Graun trolling Scotland for a crust, at least that’s presumably why they plonked this their already half dead scotland section

      How are you feeling? Still reeling from the news that attractive people are more likely to be rightwing?”

      Enjoy indy2, teamGB media’s entering a golden age isn’t it:D

    152. yesindyref2 says:

      I see some talk about the potential independence of Shetland and Orkney (though there seems to be little interest apart from Captain Ahab or something like that). Also a post which says they hate the Scottish Government and love the UK Government. That’s not true at all, if anything they don’t like either government as they’re too far away to reflect their needs.

      For statehood and independence there are some accepted criteria, perhaps summarised in this:

      Factually it is about the physical ability to govern a territory without taking direction from another State.

      One of the problems Shetland and Orkney would have is the SNHS, and universitites. They’re not insurmountable, and I’d hope a ScotGov would help the ambitions of both if they ever formally went for Independence at some time in the future. And not interfere or take sides in their referendum! It would be their choice to make.

      Just like Scotland they would have the right to self-determination, and if that meant full independence, nobody should stand in their way.

    153. Morgatron says:

      Your spot on. These bacon rolls are a complete drag. Please stop feeding them. I used to enjoy making the odd post and generally reading likeminded peoples views and the odd debate – argument, but a good handful of arse wipes are really just pissing me off . Dont engage, dont give them the oxygen snd starve them off here. PS Willie Rennies a botin.

    154. Meg merrilees says:

      Brilliant article from the Rev.
      Brilliant FMQ’s from oor Nicola.

      Must be the super blue blood moon, or whatever they called it, has absolutely inspired.

      What a team.

      What with Mike Russell as well…

      Be afraid Britnats, be afeart.

    155. Ian McCubbin says:

      Good analysis and totally why I left rhem 10 years ago.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      On the subject of Statehood, there’s The Montevideo Convention on Statehood of 1933 which, though Pan-American, does hold some important principles which apply outside that geographical and geopolitical area in actual application. Anyone interested can easily google it, here’s one:

      Article 1 is:

      The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications:
      a. a permanent population;
      b. a defined territory;
      c. government; and
      d. capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

      Article 3 is interesting and of note for Scotland:

      The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

      which would mean that even before recognition, Scotland should, for instance, see about its EU or EFTA / EEA membership, the UN and NATO etc. Plus the usual World Bank and IMF. Even in the event of a “parent state” dispute of any kind, such things would lead to international recognition which could largely supplant parent state recognition if needed.

    157. colin alexander says:


      Could we no just tell the Northern Isles they are equal, they can vote for indy in parliament, but make sure their MPs are outnumbered in same ratio as 59 to 591?

      And back that up with a second chamber where they have no representatives.

      Or they could always have an indyref, but we make that illegal, unless we allow it to be legal, but then just ignore requests for an order of parliament to legalise it.

      Or just tell them the Vikings are coming back to rob them of their pensions and their oil fund if they vote YES.

    158. Dr Jim says:

      Listen to the logic of the Arseholes

      Nicloa Sturgeon shouldn’t write in the Daily Record because they’re anti Independence,so does that not include appearing on the BBC, STV, SKY, Channel bloody 4 and almost every newspaper in the British Isles because they’re all anti Independence for Scotland

      Get over it the FM doesn’t love you so take her pictures down from your wall get a new fetish put your Jammies back on and grow up

      And the other clown, RISE will never win an election and Colin Fox will never be King, the SNP will be the government for as long as they want and there’s nothing, nothing you can do about it and that includes Tommy Sheridans wee plan to back Corbyn as well, it wont work

    159. Bill not Ben says:

      Its now friday and the world is still turning on its axis, newspapers have been printed and are getting ready to be shipped all around the country, at the end of the day most of them will be tied up with a piece of string and sent back to where they came from, this is a terrible situation, something really must be done about this terrible waste of string

    160. yesindyref2 says:

      Here’s an interesting one on that survation poll

      “Looking at the poll, the absolute stand-out is the data on age – so, 16-24 year olds: SNP – 47% Lab – 34% Compare this with most recent Yougov GB poll – 18-24 year olds: Lab – 74% This is a hugely significant difference”

    161. colin alexander says:

      Dr Jim said:

      “Nicloa Sturgeon shouldn’t write in the Daily Record because they’re anti Independence”

      AND “The Vow”

      AND “The Vow Delivered”. That’s right, but it’s her free choice to do something stupid. Nobody is perfect.

      Tommy Sheridan said vote SNP in Scotland, Labour in England.

      And the SNP also wanted to support Labour at WM with the “progressive alliance”, which seems a contradiction.

      Nae wunner people either didnae bother voting at all or just voted Labour directly. However, I wisnae one of them. I stuck with the SNP out of loyalty to my excellent local SNP MP.

    162. Petra says:

      @ yesindyref2 at 1:37am …. “Interesting re. Survation Poll.”

      Doesn’t look as though many 16-24 year olds are too keen on the Tories, lol.

      And I see that if you scroll down it highlights that 64% of 16-24 year olds say they would vote Yes now in comparison to 57% pre-Indyref1. Looks as though it’s moving in the right direction in relation to that age group at least.

    163. Cactus says:

      More and more cool Scottish people are now and will continue to be moving forward from no to Yes. Being an independent and international country is cool, Scotland.

      British Nationalist Politicians / people (BNP’S) appear to be trying to exhaust Yes voters and put people off future votings, ‘last gasp stuff’ for whomever they may be, the opposite will happen, eitherway, Yes will WIN.

      They may try to… but we’re the ones laughing.

      Lib Dems.. Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha.

      Ye know see how.

      Dinna fret, everything changes, a new dynamic will take effect here soon.

    164. yesindyref2 says:

      My wife knows one in that age group was totally outraged his parents voted NO, not sure if he convinced them of the error of their ways!

      The thing is to get them active with their parents, aunties, uncles, grandparents. And make it personal “it’s my future”.

    165. Cactus says:

      An it’s a good thing Wingers.

      Now is soon.

    166. Cactus says:

      Eric Burden.



    167. Cactus says:

      Bestest ever Bullys special prize…

      Matching drinks globes.


      Eat yer hearts out you Lib Dems you.

      Gamble the prizes!

      101 or more.

    168. Cactus says:

      Wild West Adventure to a Teaxan ranch, denied.


      Yee har Scotland, now is soon.

      Turnaround 180.

    169. Cactus says:

      Nite. Your stage Scotland. X.

      Good to see you posting Bill not Ben ~

    170. Ghillie says:

      Hey there Cactus = )

    171. Cactus says:

      Vote yes Ghillie xx.

      Vote Yes Scotland xx.

    172. yesindyref2 says:

      Well here’s a thing.

      Women and girls make up 51 per cent of Scotland’s population but accounted for only 25 per cent of our letter-writers so far this year.

      As the article says: “Over to you, ladies.”. Wings has some very articulate ladies, who better to counter SiU in the Unionist MSM on unequal terms? I honestly can’t see KH in the Herald winning against Petra for instance, apologies to others I’m not mentioning for fear of missimg some!

    173. Graeme McAllan says:

      The Scrote-Dems proving once more that they are more “Scrote”, than “Dem” 🙁

    174. Any truth in the rumour that Tavish Scott and Liam McArthur have resigned from Wee Wullie’s Party and formed a new Centre party called the Liberals?
      What a grubby wee bunch of bench warmers this lot continue to be.
      Findlay’s name next to Fraser’s.
      The Anglo Nats offer no alternative budget.
      They couldn’t balance the tea club cash, yet they vote No to McKay’s proposals.
      Mundell standing in the background looking every inch the subservient little lap dog that he is, while his Tory Master is given unfettered access to BBC Scotland’s facilities to fucking spout the usual too wee too poor too stupid too dependent on the Mighty Imperial England for Trade insults to camera unchallenged is the last straw.
      Mike Russell sums it up neatly.
      We can’t go on having meetings about arranging meetings with our English oppressors.
      Now is the time.
      It is coming at us like a runaway train.
      I feel it in my bones.
      And no’ before time.

    175. Snode1965 says:

      Radio Scotland not broadcasting today???

    176. @scottfinlayson
      click bait ‘ethnicity’ so last century
      be lovely to meet you when your time capsule lands
      feeling the love

    177. starlaw says:

      Listening to Mundell talking gobbledegook on Radio Shortbread …Dirty work is afoot.

    178. PictAtRandom says:

      Ye’r at yer auntie’s:

      “Chinese people have taken to calling the Prime Minister “Auntie May” following her trip to the country and meeting with its leaders.”
      (from today’s ‘Indie’)

      Wouldn’t “Anti (Grey) Matter” be better? And what would happen if she collided with Corbyn?

    179. galamcennalath says:

      starlaw says:

      Mundell …Dirty work is afoot.

      Indeed. The Tories ran out of time (probably on purpose) to put in the amendment covering Devolution. Now they say the HoL will add necessary amendment, perhaps. Skullduggery.

      I sense from the SG’s robust responses so far this year that they are well aware of it and gearing up for a showdown.

    180. Les Wilson says:

      BBCS ,just call it bollocks radio, Mundell is a devious little creep, they will verbally promise the world to us, but not prepared to write it down officially, for this reason, that reason, any reason.
      G.Robertson did give him a bit of a grilling, But Mundell is nothing if not mealy mouthed.

      They are stalling at every turn re reserved powers. In the common acceptance of ” don’t trust a Tory”, then this is just another delay tactic and it will all be over before we get a chance to see, and highly likely to bin it as, a power grab.

      They have a devious strategy to bind their colony and it’s parliament by reducing powers meant to be coming to us. Mike Russell is well aware, subsequently so will Nicola. We need to openly reject the bill, and proclaim Indy2.

      We need to do that very soon or the passing of the bill could be sudden if Westminster decides not abide by EU rules and just says goodbye to the EU, regardless of what that entails.

      It would then give them the ability to do anything to Scotland, aka Catalonia style. The SNP really need to stop being so upfront and honest with them, treat them with the disdain they treat us.

    181. Les Wilson says:

      We need to make things ever more complicated for Westminster, they are in a real mess and we should take every opportunity to pressure them.

      Lets pour oil on the fire and really shake them up.
      The more they panic the more mistakes they will make. The more people will see the Emperor has no clothes,no good intent or money either.

      However I think they are more focused on keeping Scotland than behaving honourably with the EU.

    182. Ottomanboi says:

      We know the self-harming Scotch unionist cult stinks but it is time the SNP propagandists graphically exposed the extent of this historic Great Stink to the electorate. Too many citizens are still not acquainted with cognitive side-effects of the noxious reik.

    183. Nana says:

      Today at 10am we are before the Court of Session in Edinburgh asking it to refer exactly that question – does the UK have a legal right to revoke its notification – to the CJEU? (I will live-tweet the hearing).

    184. Nana says:

      Ooh there’s been a warning

      U.K. and European officials are concerned that a March deadline to pin down the crucial Brexit transition deal may slip, according to four people familiar with the situation.

    185. Nana says:

      Brexit: Politics, not economics, has a forecasting problem. However during Scotref they will be absolutely sound as a pound,lol

      Rees-Moggie’s pants on fire

      Molly Scott Cato MEP.

    186. Smallaxe says:

      Good morning and thank you for your links, It’s cold but sunny down here in the deep South of North Britain.
      Kettle’s on!

    187. Nana says:

      Good morning Smallaxe 🙂

    188. Muscleguy says:

      Isn’t it getting close to the time where we treat the LibDems like the philosophical tree in the forest when there is nobody around.

      Best ignored and assumed to be lying until proven otherwise is how I see them. Useful idiots to the Tories, the comic arm of Unionism.

    189. louis.b.argyll says:

      Highland Wifie says:

      BBC news website..
      “Communities were forced off the areas in the 18th and 19th centuries to make way for AGRICULTURAL IMPROVEMENTS.

      What an insult!
      Sigh.. they still think we should be thankful, move to cities, where we can be contained in this corrupt nation, forever United under Gods chosen ones, the English ruling class.

    190. Legerwood says:

      The Herald today reporting that the Orange Order is going to go on a charm offensive this year to try to improve its image.

      Various events will be organised during the course of the year in pursuit of this aim.

    191. Macart says:


      Mike Russell has really set the cat among the pigeons with his statements yesterday. 🙂

      Decent piece from indyref2 and PH t’boot, though their warning amounts to ‘I’d be awfully upset’, ‘not in the public interest’ etc. Personally, I can’t think of anything that is more in the public interest than an impact assessment which affects the personal finances of every soul in the populations of the UK. In fact it really doesn’t get more personal than the financial and practical well-being of you, your family, your friends, your community etc.

      Some pain people will put up with because the overall benefits outweigh the costs involved. What happens when there is no benefit, only the pain bit? And not a little pain, but years of financial hardship with restrictions and even reversals of your personal freedoms, choices, your democracy?

      You can see why such an assessment may tagged eyes only for government consumption. If people became aware throughout the UK just what an epic economic galactof**k Brexit was and more importantly who and what drove it, they’d be more than a little upset. Make them aware that on top of the financial hardship they face, there’s going to be a roll back of personal and civil rights, political settlements with devolved legislatures and you’re looking at real civil unrest which threatens the state and the system it supports.

      Yeah, you can see why Mr Davis would be a tad…unsettled.

    192. Ottomanboi says:

      @Colin Alexander
      Re Vikings in Orkney/Shetland there is evidence from genetic surveys of the modern population that wiping out the aboriginal inhabitants is very likely what happened.
      A similar ethnic cleansing may have occurred in the Hebrides.
      Place names give evidential support to genetic data.
      There are no known pre-Viking names in O & S except the possibly Pictish [Orc] element in Orkney, Latin [Orcades]. In the Hebrides Norse names are common and survive in a Gaelicised forms.
      The modern revisionist view of the Northmen as simple farmers is not born out by accounts of them as colonizing warriors in the literature of contact cultures.

    193. jfngw says:

      I feel refreshed, admittedly after all the political campaigns between 2014 & 2017 I was a bit weary with them. But I’ve had my rest and I am now ready for the Indyref2 campaign, bring it on.

    194. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 2 February, 2018 at 8:43 am:

      “We need to do that very soon or the passing of the bill could be sudden if Westminster decides not abide by EU rules and just says goodbye to the EU, regardless of what that entails.”

      I think you may be missing the point, Les. It would be a grave mistake for the SNP/SG to jump too soon. The whole thing about the move to take back Scotland’s independence is that it really is not Scotland’s independence – It is the people of Scotland’s independence.

      By that I mean both legally and actually. That means it isn’t the lump of north Britain that is sticking out of the sea and ocean that will become free – it is the people on that lump of north Britain who will take back their freedom. No matter what the SNP or SG do it will fail to gain independence unless the people of Scotland, (and not just those of them born in Scotland), are behind the claim of independence.

      Nicola is correct to wait until such time as a good majority of the people of Scotland are calling for independence.

      “The SNP really need to stop being so upfront and honest with them, treat them with the disdain they treat us.”

      Which is exactly the wrong thing to do – you do not lower yourself to their level but raise yourself well above their level. Look at it this way – the Indy movement, and not just the SNP/SG, have little or no real access to the Westminster owned or Westminster backing media. The only way therefore to show those people in Scotland that they will be better off as an independent state is by making them aware they actually are better off under a SNP/SG.

      The end move will only dawn upon those who are steeped in the Westminster media’s mantras of too wee, too poor and too stupid to run Scotland is when the people of Scotland see Westminster tighten their thieving grip upon Scotland and start squeezing that grip.

      The sudden realisation that they are faced with a Westminster forced reduction in their freedoms and incomes is the catalyst to begin the reaction of the remaining few towards independence.

      It is only part of the formula to be a far better government. The second part is a Westminster being seen as a threat to the people of Scotland’s wellbeing and the catalyst is Westminster openly threatening the people’s best interests.

    195. Proud Cybernat says:

      “The voting buttons just aren’t clear enough…”

    196. Lenny Hartley says:

      Ottomanboi, viking place names have no bearing on whether the indigeounous pictish people were wiped out in orkney and shetland, the Celts did not urbinise , they had names for geographical features such as mountains and rivers but had few or none great settlements. , Dna surveys show only 1/4 of “Viking” in both.

    197. Once we get Independence I hope we will not stand in the way of the Shetlanders and/or Orcadians desire not to be part of Scotland,

      hopefully we can find some way of helping them remain part of the Westminster State that they seem to desire,

      it is a binary choice,you either support a free forward looking Scotland or you support being dependent on a backward looking Great Brutish Empire II.

    198. Fred says:

      @ Lenny, I believe the proportion of Norse Y DNA is higher in Shetland than in Orkney, the latter being much more fertile was more attractive to Scottish settlers, the Norse dialect there was extinct before 1800. It took Shetland 20 years to recover from the “Famine”, Canada was the solution for many & young guys were also encouraged to join the Royal Navy where their pay was docked to help keep their parents from the Poor-Hoose back on “Da Auld Rock”. The islanders had little to thank Scotland for, greedy ministers & greedier lairds.

      I have a Shetland buddy who, incredibly, had never heard of the Clearances or Famine in relation to Shetland, he knew about the Highland Clearances so some kind of selective amnesia here!

    199. louis.b.argyll says:

      We’re not talking about ancient identity, democracy is about the here-and-now.

      1000 year old inter-tribal régional power struggles were consolidated, superceded by national identity, or blown away by (pretty much always evil) empires.

    200. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Nana @ 09:07,

      Thanks as always for the (almost inevitably) interesting reading. Clicking sideways from your referenced article about TM’s latest piece of EU negotiating folly, I couldn’t help but click on this one:

      “Brexit cost analysis: Loss to economy would pay for 2.5 million new nurses”

      There’s just so much reality piling up, it’s a great pity there are so many ostriches around who just don’t get to see any of it. Yet. Thanks to our less-than-wonderful public broadcasters.

      Keep up the good work. We really do need this.

    201. Robert Peffers says:

      @Les Wilson says: 2 February, 2018 at 8:54 am:

      “We need to make things ever more complicated for Westminster, they are in a real mess and we should take every opportunity to pressure them.”

      Les, the problem isn’t directly what, or what not, Westminster does or doesn’t do but is that a certain section of the Scottish electorate don’t know what is actually going on.

      “Lets pour oil on the fire and really shake them up.
      The more they panic the more mistakes they will make. The more people will see the Emperor has no clothes,no good intent or money either.”

      Unfortunately it will not do that. What it will do is direct their full attention away from BRUKEXIT and upon Scottish independence and the already wall to wall SNP BAAD mantra will go into overdrive with a very obvious result.

      Now here is the truth, if any of the Scottish electorate are still unaware of what is going on then they fall into one of two factions. They are active supporters of the actual Yoons, (a.k.a. any of the Westminster unionist parties), or they mentally and physically switch of to anything whatsoever to do with politics in any form.

      That is they are either the actual enemy who will be standing shoulder to shoulder together against independence and thus are most unlikely to ever change – these are, though, a dying breed.

      The remainder just do not want to know. It is a well documented fact that when any form of Party Political, or other political broadcast, comes on either TV or Radio the Electricity companies will have already started up those forms of generator that are kept specifically for load balancing.

      That is forms of generation that can be turned on and off immediately without long warm up periods. Which is why some people have complained about such things as wind driven turbines being paid a subsidy for NOT generating electricity.

      Without such stand-by a sudden demand for power would cause massive power cuts and blackouts as happened in the USA with half the country suddenly going out.

      These companies get informed of Party Political Broadcasts and start up extra generators to cope with the sudden demand as the politically ‘don’t want to knows’ rush to their kitchens to make tea and toast before the next programme of interest to them begins.

      These are the people the independence movement needs to make aware but these are also the people who do not willingly watch/listen/read anything to do with politics and they are the very ones we need to get our message out to. The problem rests not with either Westminster, Holyrood or the hostile media but with getting our case to the political ‘don’t want to knows’.

      I believe that a majority for independence will only be achieved when Westminster does actually openly hit them in their purses, pockets, wallets and bank accounts.(Oh! and not forgetting their benefits).

      There is good reason why the support for independence is very slowly gaining and that is down to the hard work of grass roots activists on the streets and on the internet. You will note that much of the electioneering by yoon parties in more recent past elections was by postal leafletting and their grass root footsloggers were bussed in from south of the borders and bussed around Scotland.

    202. Ottomanboi says:

      @Lenny Hartley
      I am rather wary of genetics and the current rather bogus ancestry industry that has grown out of the vulgarizing element of it, pace a certain mr Moffat.
      The Northmen plainly arrived in suffiicient numbers to overwhelm the autochthonous population and placesnames are conclusive evidence of that. Culture matters. If there had been self-sufficient pre-viking populations extant among the colonisers they would have left traces in geographical names. They have not. That is a major cultural disconnect.
      After the Vikings the islands were settled by mainland Scots who will have added another set of genetic strings to the population.
      As a basis for my argument I mention that when the Arab armies conquered North Africa they overwhelmed the various Berber nations living there. However, despite the Arab numbers, Berber placenames prevail. Likewise the Vikings invaded and gave a tribal name [Rus] to Russia and provided the place element [grad/gorod] from the Norse [garðr] but they assimilated and became Slavic in culture.
      There may have been smaller indigenous populations in O&S but total cultural extinction is rare even after invasion. Were the males wiped out? Were women seized and impregnated in order to further destroy the previous culture? As in the case of the Roman seizure or rape of the Sabine women.
      We may never know. Genetics is unfortunately not a neutral field. It has easily become the plaything of racists and eugenicists with dehumanizing consequences.

    203. louis.b.argyll says:

      Aye Robert, they’ve been bussing-in their foot-soldiers for centuries.

      We’re still here.

      Scotland lives, still intact. Marginalised, derided, victimised, yet intact as a national identity, despite their best efforts. We WILL have our day.

    204. Derick fae Yell says:

      Dearie me

      There is NO significant popular demand in Orkney and Shetland to secede from Scotland! None. Nada. Zip. Speak about a red herring.

      Stuart Hill aka Captain Calamity stood in the 2017 General
      Election. Himself being a well known proponent for an independent Shetland. First ever candidate on that platform. He got 1.1% of the vote.

      John Goodland, of the now defunct Shetland Movement, stood in the 1990s on an ‘autonomy’ platform. He was a good candidate and the SNP branch of which I was a member decided to not stand a candidate to give him a clear run. He got 14%, exactly in line with what the SNP were getting at the time. In which context the 2014 referendum Yes vote represents massive progress btw. Not a majority, yet, but we have an option what would get nearer, which option I have promoted on numerous occasions.

      Ottomanboi It is incorrect so say there are no celtic placenames in Orkney and Shetland. Indeed the names of both groups are derived from their Pictish inhabitants!

      Jacob Jacobsen, the Faeroese scholar and authority on Norn, found that 5-10% of place names in Orkney and Shetland are of celtic origin. A mix of Brythonic and Gaelic, interestingly. Ernest Marwick’s paper on the matter is relevant.

    205. Jack Murphy says:

      The awful May,Boris,Ruth Davidson and Jeremy Corbyn are playing roulette with our lives and health!

      Drastic impact of European Union Nurse applications as England and Scotland BREXIT looms. 🙁

      Financial Times three months ago:

      “The number of EU nationals coming to work as nurses or midwives in Britain has fallen sharply over the past year, piling pressure on a health service that is already struggling to retain staff.

      Just 1,107 EU nationals joined the profession in the 12 months to September, according to figures from the Nursing and Midwifery Council.
      This was an 89 per cent drop from the preceding 12 months. The number of EU nationals who left nursing jobs in Britain also rose 69 per cent over the same period………….

    206. Petra says:

      Thanks for the links Nana, in particular MEP Molly Scott Cato’s article ‘Bad Boys of Brexit.’ Fabulous comprehensive list, plus history, not just of bad boys, but of a bunch of extremely corrupt and dangerous people. One for my little archive.

      We read one article after another about how horrendous Brexit will be and yet many people still support it. I don’t get it, especially when you take into account the hellish mess that England is in from their Police Force to Privatisation. EVERY solitary ‘area’ that you can think of, including the level of debt they’ve racked up, is an absolute disgrace / disaster and it’s got NOTHING whatsoever to do with the EU. They’ve basically shown that they’re incapable of running a village fete. Who in their right mind would trust Westminster politicians with their future in light of their track record? More so their children’s and grandchildren’s?

      Time is running out now and Scots will have to waken up before it’s too late to save ourselves ….. save our Nation.

    207. Ottomanboi says:

      @Derick fae Yell
      Ernest Marwick was a folklorist not a linguist and the study of placenames has moved on since his time.
      The Northern Isles have a bit of an identity problem. Loudly proclaming their Norse ancestry but sticking like glue to their introduced (alien?) Anglo-Scottish dialects. No takers for Nynorn it seems.
      I recognise that there is a small pre-Norse element ie [ORC] in Orkney possibly [Hjat] > CAT in the Norse name [Hjatland] and in some of the island names but the centres of population settlement all have Norse names. The mainland Scottish linguistic element ie loch, water, hill etc is also suggestive of the workings of the cultural colonizing process.

    208. yesindyref2 says:

      @Derick fae Yell: “There is NO significant popular demand in Orkney and Shetland to secede from Scotland! None. Nada. Zip. Speak about a red herring.

      Indeed. But that didn’t stop unionists from talking about it during Indy Ref 1, a “petition” signed mostly from the rest of the UK, and it won’t stop them this time.

      Good to have a snappy answer to them, something like:

      1). There is no demand
      2). They would be entitled by UNCLOS to a 12 nautical mile territorial waters, but NOT a 200 nm EEZ.
      3). They would need quite a long transition period, perhaps a decade or so, to be able to totally self-govern, including the NHS and further education
      4). As a fringe of both Scotland and the UK they are not best served by either government, but at least the Scottish Government is aware of the problem and addressing it
      5). If they wanted to, I’d support it, the right to self-determination is enshrined in the UN Charter

      Something like that!

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