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The vote of confidence

Posted on February 15, 2020 by

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    1. 15 02 20 07:57

      The vote of confidence | speymouth

    308 to “The vote of confidence”

    1. CageyBee says:

      Ain’t that the truth

    2. Al-Stuart says:

      Thanks Chris.

      Though I am beginning to get some hope back.

      BoJo will decline very fast

      His Achilles Heal is Dominic Cummings. That lunatic wants to destroy the British Establishment…

      As for Alister Jackass?

      A no-mark skid mark.

      Excellent cartoon. Thank you chief.

    3. Robert Louis says:

      The English Tories’ colonial governor general of Scotland.

      A Scot dancing to London’s colonial jig, happy to betray and sell out his own country, Scotland for personal reward.

      The history of Scotland, since 1707, is littered with Alistair jacks.

    4. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Dominic Cummings is Johnson’s “mud-guard”, bolted-on for the sole purpose of deflecting shit from his boss.

      That the media have bought into the ploy merely illustrates what a cunning fucker Johnson is.

    5. Tony Hay says:

      Give the fucker enough rope ………

    6. Morgatron says:

      Every time I think of the British media, I hear Neil Innes sing “How sweet to be an Idiot” I dont think we have ever seen or heard politics and politicians so out their depth solely acting for self interest than this Tory party and getting no scrutiny from the so called free press. Great toon as always Mr C.

    7. Rob Outram says:

      Alister Jack, not so much scraping the bottom as licking it?

    8. Colin Alexander says:

      Scotland’s MPs and MSPs bend the knee in complete colonial subservience to these people, accepting them as our Imperial Masters.

    9. Ottomanboi says:

      Re Otto von Bismarck and Sun Tzu admirer Dominic Cummings:
      All the keys to character, influences and motivation are there.
      And this:
      Cummings is a man on a mission and has found his ‘punter’.
      Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
      ? Sun Tzu, The Art of War
      Remember OUR MISSION?

    10. Kangaroo says:

      Nope. The bottom has not been scraped yet. A long way to go, there’s even a rabbit hole underneath and it goes a long way down.

    11. Muscleguy says:

      Now Cummings has a cabinet of doormats his bicycle wheels will glow red hot as he flies around Whitehall supervising the minions.

      The Civil service will post lookouts for him and the jungle telegraph will clcik as the Mandarins figure out how much time they have to get stuff through their compliant, doormat minister before Cummings gets to them.

      Cummings hasn’t thought about this aspect of having doormat ministers. The Mandarins will, I suspect be too clever for him.

    12. Ottomanboi says:

      Cummings….techno-populist, cherry picking faux-scientist, fantasist, David Icke on a hyperdrive skateboard, techno-fascist?
      We need to take this whacky guy, more than Johnson, very seriously.
      Cyborgs are taking over BritState.
      Graphic comic coming to a retailer near you!
      Scotland get your act together.

    13. kapelmeister says:

      “The SNP is an evangelical faith-based cult” says the new Scottish branch leader of the evangelical faith-based Brexit cult.

    14. Gordon Keane says:

      I was quite appalled at the replacement of a half decent Northern Ireland Secretary, with a clueless person like Brandon Lewis.
      We wonder how long it will be, before he has to go, or before those in Belfast find they can’t have anything do with him.
      If this is what they are getting over there, we can only wonder at the level of tory politician these days.
      As for the new billionaire Chancellor, well, I guess the less said of the thing the better!
      Somehow, I am left to wonder how long Boris Johnson will be Prime Minister. I would be surprised if he lasted 4 years. But for however long he is there, he is going to be very destructive.
      And yet, and yet, both Labour and Libs in Scotland are more than happy to be ruled by him!

    15. Stoker says:

      “Remember OUR MISSION?”

      Says a twat always helping the Brits to promote their propaganda platforms. Find some bloody respect for those of us who at least make an effort to avoid posting direct links. Selfish BritNat facilitator. We don’t constantly try to bring people to this blog for you to entice them into supporting our No1 enemy. You know the score and you know *exactly* what you’re doing.

    16. Stoker says:

      Quality cartoon as usual Chris. Thank you!

    17. Scott says:

      Nice one again Chris.
      who would have thought.

    18. Breeks says:

      I see ominous parallels between Trump, Steve Bannon and the far right News syndicate Breitbart, and their British counterparts, “Britain Trump” Johnson, Dominic Cummings, and the far right BritNat media, which is more or less all the media.

      What’s perhaps more ominous, is that Trump has an American media and political opposition which might admittedly be finding it hard to gain traction over Trump, despite trying. They got him impeached, and any normal, self respecting President would have resigned at the ignominy of being impeached.

      Set aside the voting public moment, and accept for the moment the sweeping statement that the electorate has had it’s head turned by populist rhetoric, and focus on far right ‘organisation’.

      Trump, to a large extent, is a ‘ringer’ who markets himself as anti-establishment and friend to the working man, (whom he subsequently strips of workers rights and healthcare), but maybe gives a job. Bannon and Breitbart were too much of a right wing liability, literally fascist and white supremacists, and were dumped.

      But over here, Boris Johnson might very well be Mini-Me to Trump’s Dr Evil, but in terms of his status, Etonian Boris Johnson is very much a product of the Establishment where Trump is marketed as an alternative to the “Establishment”, and Trump’s in a never ending battle with the US News Media, whereas the UK Establishment media is more or less a megaphone for far right values.

      There are two things which occur to me. I don’t quite follow the spat between Boris Johnson and the media. Something stinks. Why is Johnson finding it necessary to pick a fight with an Establishment Media which is more right wing and fascist than he is? Tories get an easy ride in the Media. The cynic in me suspects the UK is indeed styling itself of the US President’s precedent, and the US formula dictates that the President must undermine criticism as fake news. Boris / Cummings are orchestrating this fallout with the media because the US formula stipulates that it’s necessary.

      The second concern, is that Johnson’s regime isn’t anti-Establishment like Trump’s rednecks, but “of-the-Establishment”, and consequently, it is difficult to see where opposition to the UK far right Government will coalesce. Labour? Do me a favour.

      I think the UK is in much greater peril from a Government with far right tendencies than the US. Trump has provoked a few trade wars with large economies, yet despite being reckless and foolhardy, it can still be contained under the heading of poor / idiotic policy. It’s not brought the USA to its knees.

      In the UK however, this flirtatious affair with far right populism has already seen the UK population sold the massive pup that Europe was the enemy, and was holding back the economic prowess of the British Empire! BritNat / English exceptionalism has been whipped into a frenzy, which right now, is all dressed up with nowhere to go.

      The UK is in for a bumpy ride economically, and will in due witness the truth about Brexit unfolding, but will see it being stage managed and distorted into anti European hate-speak, with Europe blamed for every misfortune that becomes manifest in the U.K.

      How will it play in Scotland? I don’t know. I still can’t quite bring myself to believe we are still in this mess, however, here we are, and Scotland might soon be vilified as a friend of Europe, and Scottish institutions attacked as unpatriotic and anti-British. That might raise cheers in London, but here in Scotland, that narrative might backfire, and actually entrench and embolden sympathy for Independence.

      Boris Johnson must now find a way to dilute Scottish Nationalism and Scotland’s empathy for Europe. I don’t think that will be easy, because even if Johnson had the means to damage or discredit the credibility of the SNP, which I don’t think he does, I don’t actually think the SNP is the focus of Scottish Independence any more. I think Brexit Day was D-Day for many of us, and Nicola badly misread the signs.

      Perhaps Boris Johnson’s plans are to string along the Scottish Government by dangling Referendums like a carrot, while Scottish Institutions are surreptitiously weakened and deregulated, while standards and methods begin to deviate from EU best practice so that rejoining Europe becomes a pipe dream. Don’t forget, he doesn’t need electoral popularity here. Make Scotland suffer and let the SNP’s impotence breed resentment and frustration. To coin the phrase, “who else they gonna vote for?”

      It’s Constitution or bust Scotland. We grasp our Sovereignty and put it to good use getting out of this shite, or we sit back and watch the Tories dismantle Scotland as our Scottish “Assembly” wrings it’s hands in impotence, and complains that Scotland must be given the right to choose, and decide if it wants the responsibility for deciding whether it can choose something which we should always have the right to decide…

      It’s Constitution or Bust Scotland. Are you with us Joanna Cherry? Let’s use the 700th anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath as the occasion where we tear up the Scotland Act and renew our acquaintance and vows with Scotland’s Constitutional Sovereignty…

    19. Daisy Walker says:

      A great cartoon Chris, as always, not that it will penetrate thick skins.

      In other news, and isn’t this interesting…. for the first time in 100 years the UK has ‘exported’ a substantial amount of gold, to the US. £12 billion pounds worth in fact, and it looks as if its been a private seller.

      Now what extremely wealthy family do we all know that has that kind of ill gotten gains, accumulated over centuries of colonial asset stripping, that might not want those kind of assets lying around – if no arrangement can be made with the EU over their tax laws, and who just might want/need to curry favour with the US establishment, to prevent uncomfortable investigations taking place/going public, re favoured son’s behaviour?

      Any ideas.

      Nana, if your out there, best wishes, and what are your thoughts/info re this transaction.

    20. Republicofscotland says:

      Nice one Chris, and very true.

      Meanwhile a guest commentor in the National newspaper today, might just have given us an insight into Johnsons/Cummings plans for the UK.

      David Mungall, writing in the paper said of “The path”

      “In 2012, a week after the Olympics ended a group of five Tory MP’s, four now in Johnsons cabinet, puublished Britannia Unchained. A Darwininan manifesto of fewer employment rights, and a smaller state. Mungall goes on to add more, of what could happen.

    21. Dan says:

      Nana’s post with links from previous thread. Well worth reading.

    22. jfngw says:

      Jackson Carlaw & Annie Wells
      Rightwit Lielow & Vacant
      Willie Rennie & Alistair Carmichael

      British Nationalists, the gift that keeps on giving. Although to be fair, Vacant hasn’t made an arse of him/herself yet. And for an encore you can throw in AC-H, always good for a laugh, but the choice seems to be never ending with the British Nationalists.

      Anyway I need to spend a bit more time with my family (of to London soon though, you know opportunities and all that).

    23. Colin Alexander says:

      Stoker said:”… helping the Brits to promote their propaganda platforms.”

      Why don’t you lecture the SNP, who provide a link in their latest SNP mail shot, so we preview the Evil Empire’s latest pro-Empire propaganda.

    24. Ottomanboi says:

      OMG! You have plainly a prob with the concept of ‘freedom’.
      Set up a blog of your own if you wish to make prescriptive rules’.
      No wonder there’s something rotten in the current state of Scotland.
      Intolerance, and do I smell the reik of racism too, is not a pretty sight.
      Btw. The Guardian does print articles sympathetic to Scottish nationalism unlike the rest of the Unionist media. Don’t knock it!
      Did you bother to read the link, or were you too high on self-righteous dudgeon?
      Have a great day!

    25. Terry says:

      @breeks. 11.17
      Spot on
      “ Boris Johnson must now find a way to dilute Scottish Nationalism and Scotland’s empathy for Europe. I don’t think that will be easy, because even if Johnson had the means to damage or discredit the credibility of the SNP, which I don’t think he does, I don’t actually think the SNP is the focus of Scottish Independence any more. I think Brexit Day was D-Day for many of us, and Nicola badly misread the signs.”

    26. winifred mccartney says:

      Just been watching the labour hustings in Glasgow, what a bore – when labour in Wales can’t do something it’s austerity when snp can’t do something its there fault.

      So many things said which were factually untrue -labour cant win without Scotland, if every constituency in Scotland had voted labour at the last election they would still have lost.

      RLB talks of democracy for everyone except Scotland 52% for indy is not enough, Federalism the only game in town, should be reminded of Smith Commission – the tories offered more to Scotland than they did. That ship has not only sailed it has sunk.

      WM cuts funding by 1% but snp cuts by 7% what tosh, free prescriptions, free tuition fees, new child support, free transport, free child care etc etc

      Unfortunately labour only talks to labour and by doing so they will continue in the wilderness and deserve to be there.

    27. Nana says:

      @Daisy Walker

      Can’t say I’ve thought much of the gold transfers, some folk seem to believe it could be other countries repatriating their gold from the BOE.

      Those with the most to lose will hide or transfer their ill gotten gains wherever they believe to be a safe haven.

      The following tweet includes links to articles along with a youtube video from 2017
      Brexit Forensics: The gold export illusion

      Best wishes to you too 🙂

    28. Robin McHugh says:

      Folks here are really needing to look at the links from Nana towards the end of the previous thread as mentioned by Dan at 11.44am, and particularly the Twitter stuff about the far right.
      If this proves to be the case, a grave situation is developing!

    29. Sinky says:

      Tories in Scotland have now matched Labour for the lack of talent at the top. Gov General Jack is really poor at Scottish Questions plus dodgy twice failed second hand car salesman now in charge of North Britain.

      Surprised that there has not been more publicity for this report on UK treatment of oil companies compared to other countries

      Should be read and quoted when anyone extols the benefits of the Union and relishing on the largest deficit in Europe.

    30. Dr Jim says:

      Kate Forbes SNP MSP Finance Minister giving evidence to the Budget Scrutiny committee said “There is no communication between the Scottish government and the Exchequer as to the UK budget, they just keep referring us to the Tory party manifesto”

    31. Rm says:

      If RBS is finished could Scotland not start another independent bank, if every independent minded Scot or non Scot put their money in it would fairly get a decent start, it could start investing in opening up Scotland in the 21st century people all round the world who are sympathetic in a different future for Scotland might start investing.

    32. admiral says:

      Sinky says:
      15 February, 2020 at 12:59 pm
      Tories in Scotland have now matched Labour for the lack of talent at the top. Gov General Jack is really poor at Scottish Questions plus dodgy twice failed second hand car salesman now in charge of North Britain.

      Echoing Kennedy’s successful campaign against Nixon, perhaps the SNP could use a picture of Jack the Carlot with the slogan “Would you buy a used car from this man?”. 🙂

    33. meg merrilees says:


      Independence Movements have always been and always will be bigger than one party, in this case the SNP.
      The SNP was the ‘coat hook’ that helped independence stay alive through the dark days and get it to where we are now but, for independence to be a success it has to be cross-party, it has to be a majority desire, not just an SNP majority desire, it has to be the singular aim of most of the people. Once we achieve it, the SNP will have to reorder itself.

      Nicola has a lot on her plate because she is not just leading the SNP, she is First Minister and I’ve often thought that the job is too big for one person, any person, though the benefit is that policies can be formed with a view to the long term and helping to establish an independent state.

      The SNP is the means to the end, they are our political representation in all the talking shops and legislative forums (? don’t know the plural, sorry) but the ‘people power’ will be the vessel that will take us across the line.

    34. Golfnut says:

      @ RM.
      Lots of comments on FB regarding RBS, many along the lines of good riddance, etc.
      Independence gives us the opportunity to reset the banking world in Scotland and I would like to see a new TSB type bank on the high street. Owned by us and savings, pensions and investment linked to the oil fund.

    35. Hate to say it,

      Scotland/SNP/New Indy Party could do with a political strategist like Cummings,

      we seem to have the weapons but do not know where to point them or when to shoot or who to shoot,(metaphorically)

      Cummings is an acolyte of John Boyd (US military strategist)
      who`s teachings of the `OODA Loop` have been taken by most world militaries,economics,law,business and politics,

      OOPD Loop,

      the collection of data by means of the senses
      the analysis and synthesis of data to form one’s current mental perspective
      the determination of a course of action based on one’s current mental perspective
      the physical playing-out of decisions,

      the Loop part means everything is fluid so Observation,Orientation and Decision can be revisited before Action,

      he was one of the main strategists for Desert Storm,

      Cummings sees the UK GOV/Civil Service as still living in paper and pen age and force it into the fast changing cyber age.

    36. kapelmeister says:

      Boris Johnson didn’t even tweet congratulations to Carlaw on his election. No mention. That’s how important Scotland is to Johnson.

    37. Golfnut says:

      @ Meg Merrilees.
      The Yes movement has in essence outgrown the SNP, they still hold the political reigns but their feet appear to have slipped out of the stirrups. I don’t think they realise just how ready and willing many of there members, I’m one, to confront Westminster politically and constitutionally head on.

    38. Republicofscotland says:

      On RBS attempting to drop its toxic name, NatWest took a £900 million charge for mis-sold PPI. Of course as some have already stated RBS, started to aid the tranfer of English bribes to Scottish lords who sold out Scotland via the Act of Union.

      In reality its those who might lose their jobs that are the big losers,in all of this if RBS does exit an independent Scotland that I feel for.

      This move is not a new phenomena, Lloyds Banking Group acquired the Bank of Scotland in 2009, and retains the banks name North of the border.

      RBS destroyed the lives of many folk who ran small business, a division of RBS, also issued the infamous “Rope” memo to staff, in the context, that you sometimes just have to let customers hang themselves.

    39. Golfnut says:

      I see the UK Advocate General has responded to the team going to court on the refusal of an S30. First point that springs to mind is that there is no such thing as a ‘ Advocate General of the UK ‘. The Advocate General of Scotland was formerly Lord Reed, now president of the SP. So why was the Advcate General of England responding for the UK government. Could Johnson and Cummings be trolling Scotland. I wonder if Cummings is related to the Red Comyn, seeking revenge belatedly for his treacherous ancestor.

    40. MaggieC says:

      Chris , Great cartoon I hope there’s a hole in the bottom of that barrel and we could just put
      the “ Union “ Jack and Boris in the barrel and toss it in the sea .

    41. Colin Alexander says:

      Remember this article:


      Why has the Scottish Govt or SNP never made ANY attempt to settle the question of whether the Scottish Parliament currently has the power to legislate for an indyref?

      Answer: They don’t want the answer. In case a court rules it is within the powers of the Scottish Parliament.

      How’s that? Blame the Tories for no indyref2. It was obvious to the dogs in the street no s30 would be forthcoming.

      The SNP are playing the indy movement for the trusting mugs that they are.

      The SNP leadership don’t want an indyref any time within the lifetime of the current Scottish Parliament. They are looking to 2021 and seeking another mandate to scratch on the walls at woke cult HQ, five-bar gate style to keep to try and keep tally as the excuse to get them another five years of colonial woke rule.

    42. Joe says:

      Whining liberal remainer fannies, SNP cultists and the pan sexual multireligious, open borders, multicultural champagne socialist, white priviledge fighting Labour tribe will soon be joined in their crying by people who voted for a liar and expected honesty. Is it any wonder i come across as an arrogant cnt?

    43. Ottomanboi says:

      Carlaw, SNP evangelical faith cult…at least nationalists have a faith and principles.
      Tory Unionism will bare its fat fundament to all comers.
      The catamite of Brit politics.
      Principles? What’s them?

    44. Lochside says:

      ‘Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it’..George Santayana, the Spanish Philosopher.

      Scotland is a country isolated from its past by Imperial design imposed by England and its Caledonian collaborators since 1707.
      The illegal ‘Union’ aided and abetted by English spies such as Daniel Defoe bribed the bankrupt Aristocratic cartel running Scotland. Trading England’s debt for these despicable tra*tors’ own losses and leaving the Scottish people with a burden lasting 300 years right up to the present.

      Meanwhile, the Stuart carpetbagger Jamie the Saxt.or as he preferred 1st of ‘Britain’, placed his new English forces on the border to enforce this arranged marriage. The Border where he was finally able to subjugate the Border clans and ‘encourage ‘ them to ‘plant’ Ulster and seed the Irish troubles.

      The Presbyterian inspired uprisings in Scotland at the time of Union; the same people who attacked the weak Church of Scotland which bowed to implementing the English Bibles and the forcing of Bishops. The war of 1638 when our army forced James to crawl to the English Parliament for money and arms. The spark that lit the ‘English’ Civil War. A war in which Scotland participated and which yet again demonstrated its divided self: the Presbyterian armies switched sides against Cromwell ( Johnson) when he executed the Monarch, and by doing so he broke the Scottish people’s Sovereign covenant with the monarch who embodied said sovereignty. Cromwell turned on his erstwhile allies and crushed the Scots at Dunbar and massacred more people in Dundee than the butchery of Drogheda.

      The 1820 rebellion ‘Scotland free or a desert’..Thomas Muir, the martyrs Baird, Hardie and Wilson, crushed again by treachery. The disproportionate losses of Scottish war dead in WW1 (140,000 OUT OF 700,000 uk); the sacrifice of the Highland Division at St Valery in June 1940 at the same time of the ‘glorious rescue of Dunkirk’. Right up to the present with the grand theft of our seas and our oil and the continuing depopulation of our young, talented and deportation of europeans replaced by RUK no voting colonial minded retirees.

      Most Scots are unaware of most of this history. There is a major football team in Glasgow whose fans are totally unaware of their religious identification with a monarch who is a usurper of their own identity….once the Williamite succession took root the Alien Act reduced their forebears to second class ‘Britons’ and one third of the Irish who were starved to death by Mother England were ‘Prods’. Less than a hundred years it took to drive nearly a quarter of a million Presbyterian ‘Ulster Scots’ out to the US where they fought as an identifiable hegemonic group against the hated ‘Crown’…such irony..yet how many know here or in Norn Iron?

      Because our ‘Leaders’ the SNP, have ignored this history, as ‘nationalist’ and focused on virtue signalling, and more importantly completely missing the point of our political ideology rooted in Presbyterian sovereignty of the people, itself originating back through pre Reformation to clan chiefs being trustees of power not owners and the Declaration of Arbroath…We are left scrabbling about ‘begging’ for recognition from a modern Cromwellian State. One that will prove as implacable as the original one was.

      We must cast aside all cowardly defeatist attitudes towards the ancient oppressor, England. The sociopathic state that never quits in its relentless history of conquest militarily or economically over other nations. Their bogus institutions of Westminster, Supreme Court must be ignored by our ‘Leaders’ who must come from Civil Scotland, as the SNP have proven themselves liars and weak deceivers of our people. The AUOB,’YES’ movement and those radical elements, if any, in our remaining ‘institutions’ of law, church and civil society must crowd fund our claim of Right to Europe and the UN. Doing nothing until 2021 is abject surrender

    45. Dr Jim says:

      Jackboot Capstan is an honourable man and every business he’s been a part of that’s gone into liquidation can testify to that

      He used to parrot David Camerons words then he parroted Theresa May’s words now he parrots Boris Johnsons words and inbetween those words he parroted Ruth Davidson’s words

      He’s a typical used Ford Fiesta salesman using the language of many careless owners

    46. manandboy says:

      As the recently elected PM, Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson is now charged with continuing the same neo-liberal legacy which has been carefully protected by every Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher.
      That legacy is simply to continue to transfer taxpayer’s cash to the Wealthy Elites, beginning with the Queen and all the members of both the immediate and the extended Royal family. Then, to the aristocracy and so on.
      This is the purpose behind the insane Irish Sea Bridge. Like the failed Garden Bridge across the Thames, the Bridge over a million tons of high explosives will ‘require’ an extensive feasibility investigation by Tory donors in the consultancy world and costing many tens of millions of pounds in eye-watering fees and charges.
      The project will then be abandoned for one ‘reason’ or another, with yet another large transfer of public money to the private pockets of the Establishment and the Ruling Class.
      You can bet your house on it.

      In the next few weeks we will be told of yet another similar project in the same vein. We can but wonder what it will be, but it will simply be the next of many ‘money transfers’ which will continue over the next five years of the Johnson Premiership. Then, the neo-liberal legacy will pass to whoever follows, and on it goes.

      And the gap between the rich and the poor will expand, in both directions. The Empire lives on.

    47. Ottomanboi says:

      A word to the SNP and its ‘leadership’. Hello! Are you still there?
      In organizational behavior and industrial/organizational psychology, proactivity or proactive behavior by individuals refers to anticipatory, change-oriented and self-initiated behavior in situations. Proactive behavior involves acting in advance of a future situation, rather than just reacting. It means taking control and making things happen rather than just adjusting to a situation or waiting for something to happen.

    48. Republicofscotland says:

      Jackson Carlaw CBE, and how he must relish his obedience gong title, has had his old 2014 deleted blog resurrected, and what he though of the players in the 2014 referendum is there for all to see.

      You might be surprised at what Jackson thought of Sturgeon back then.

    49. Republicofscotland says:

      Re my above comment, I’d imagine that even Carlaw himself, must be taken aback that we haven’t really made any significant progress on the independence front since 2014.

      Sure the polls have moved slightly in our favour, but one would’ve thought that Sturgeon would’ve, other than being cute enough to continually get her party re-elected again and again moved us much closer to the independence finishing line.

      Sadly, polls aside we don’t seem to be moving that way under her leadership, during one of the most uncertain and turbulent times in English politics, and even though we have countless mandates, commissions and a currrency plan, independence is as far away as it ever was.

    50. cirsium says:

      @Lochside, 6.10
      A call to arms. I like it. As Meg Merrilees said at 2.02, we have to have a national movement

    51. Clapper57 says:

      @ Lochside @ 6.10pm

      Interesting and very good comment .

    52. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside –

      Hear hear.

      Perhaps one of the most frequent Catch-22 arguments running through the history of this place has been ‘SNP is the only vehicle’ versus ‘SNP doesn’t really want indy’.

      It’s all come into sharper relief since the GE and ‘brexit’, but the basic argument remains the same. Those of us who have become deeply suspicious of SNP hierarchy motives and methods have to also acknowledge that it remains our best hope, but it’s clear that we’ll have to make more of an effort ourselves to get the party in reasonable shape for the final move(s). Right now, it’s all over the fuckin place.

      There *is* stuff we can do. Perhaps it was in the previous thread, but I did suggest that folk consider helping those opposing the GRA reforms. As general knowledge of the issue increases, so does opposition. But someone here pointed out that the SNP can’t and won’t change tack on this because the NEC members are elected internally (at conference) and the TRA representation is powerful. So, the only way to change policy is to change the members on the NEC, and that can only be done by SNP members pushing potential candidates who are prepared – like Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry – to stick their necks out and take the kind of intimidation we’ve become so used to seeing.

      Many of those most involved with the TRA clique has been meeting in Perth. Rev’s twitter has several images of the gathering of SYI, and it looks like less than 50 people. It’s quite incredible that this bunch has managed to cause such havoc. They simply have to be dealt with before the SNP can regain the trust it’s been bleeding for so long.

    53. Tinto Chiel says:

      I smiled when I read Lochside’s description of England @6.10:

      “The sociopathic state that never quits in its relentless history of conquest militarily or economically over other nations.”

      Coincidentally, I had been thinking recently about why our neighbours have produced rulers of such rapacity, ruthlessness and endless entitlement (e.g. William The Bastard, Edward I, Elizabeth, Henry VIII, Cromwell, etc.). I came to no definite conclusion, other than it is a sad fact, affecting the three other nations of Britain and Ireland quite catastrophically.

      Even a large and powerful country like France had to struggle for over a hundred years to get free from its constant expansionism, which eventually achieved its apotheosis in the greed, brutality and exploitation of the British Empire.

      The SNP leadership doesn’t seem to understand that playing nice and observing WM rules will get them nowhere with such people: all it does is sap the morale of independence supporters who may feel we have been led up a dead end by the FM’s “Save England from Itself” Brexit strategy, (which I believe she had no mandate from us to do) and who may well not turn out in sufficient numbers in 2021 because they feel totally disillusioned by the direction of the independence party. Remember 2017, when the I-Word was hardly mentioned in the manifesto?

      I hate to go all Breeksy on you all (‘cos he can do it a lot better than me) but when we have the Excalibur of sovereignty in our scabbard and someone like Joanna Cherry QC thinks it’s a winner, I’m at a loss as to why this question hasn’t been put to the test during the last three and a half wasted years.

      Sovereignty should be asserted, not sought cap in hand for permission to exercise.

      Bojo, his would-be wee Caligula pal Cummings and the real power behind the throne whom Nana mentioned earlier today will never respond to such feeble behaviour.

      Good to see you posting again, Lochside.

    54. Ian Brotherhood says:

      FFS, this place used to be buzzing on Saturday nights.

      Where is abody!?!

      *stamps feet and drinks scrumpy simultaneously*


    55. TheBuchanLoony says:

      Why go to the courts if we don’t need to…the EU will get us our s30…and before the end of this year.

    56. Colin Alexander says:

      The Bishops War c.1639 happened during the reign of Charles 1.

      The political union of 1707 happened under the reign of Queen Anne.

      The monarchs were (all Scottish titles):
      James VI,
      Charles I (son of James VI),
      Charles II (son of Charles I),
      James VII ( younger brother of Charles II),
      William II (Scotland) and Mary II (joint monarchs),( Mary II was elder daughter of James VII)
      Queen Anne ( younger daughter of James VII)

      James Francis Edward Stewart was Anne’s Catholic half-brother (aka The Old Pretender), He never became king, as the throne then went to George 1 of Hanover (as he was a Protestant).

      The current monarch, Elizabeth, is of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, but the family changed the name to Windsor during WW1 to sound English, when London was attacked by German Gotha bomber warplanes.

    57. kapelmeister says:

      Angela Rayner’s going to “live in Scotland……if I have to” in order to help Labour win the Holyrood elections.

      Scot Labour’s got so many problems that Clare Rayner couldn’t help, never mind Angela Rayner.

    58. Dr Jim says:

      @kapelmeister 9:42pm

      At least we’ll know where they got the one vote from

    59. Rm says:

      The Scottish Government is no different to any other Government around the world, they’re all pushing the globalisation philosophy which the top leaders are taught at University, they have their agenda bit by bit it’s been forced on the world by all the Governments, everything just seems to happen the majority of the population don’t even know it’s happening, whose behind it all, it’s been created from somewhere, it maybe has to be because the worlds population is getting to big, the people of Scotland who vote SNP don’t know what their party leaders are thinking, one thing for sure they don’t seem to do much about pushing for Independence.

    60. Dr Jim says:

      Because Elizabeth 1 had manly features an adams apple and refused to marry and have an heir to the throne it was rumoured for many years she was a man especially as she left strict instructions her clothing was never to be removed from her body after her death nor an autopsy carried out

      These rumours abounded at the time because she could outride and outdo most men in most things regarding anything requiring the physical

      Historians say it’s *probably* not true

    61. Colin Alexander says:

      This is one the best essays on the formation of the Union that I have read:

      I recommend you bookmark it.

    62. Simon Curran says:

      Just caught the latest British army advert on the tele. Guess what features a drunk Scotsman! Nice to keep peddling the stereotypes.

    63. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dr Jim –

      I remember reading an account written by a French diplomat who had been given an audience with Liz The First. His description was terrifying – apparently she had the white make-up but was also bare-chested.

    64. Colin Alexander says:

      Law Society of Scotland “The Journal” article about the legal status of the Union.

      An “international treaty” in law.

      This was authored by David M Walker a former regius professor in law at Glasgow University, who, very unfortunately, died in January 2014.

      It’s another one worth bookmarking, in my opinion:

    65. kapelmeister says:

      Dawn Butler decked out in a tartan jacket and tartan skirt at the Labour hustings in Glasgow.

      Because yeah, donning tartan in Scotland worked so well for Corbyn in the 2019 GE.

    66. Dr Jim says:

      But but, we all wear tartan don’t we, I wear mine in my tin bath so it can get a good cleaning what with the mud and cowpat and all, plus it dampens down the smell of the drink in the morning before I go out slaughtering the badgers for my dinner

    67. John from Fife says:

      Just came across on BBC parliament channel Nicola Sturgeon answering questions during her recent trip to the EU and I was disappointed to hear her say again that while not ruling out a non UK approved section 30 referendum she definitely wanted Westminster’s approval before she would go ahead with one. What is she frightened of.

    68. Dorothy Devine says:

      Ian Brotherhood , I congratulate you on being a man who can multi task!

    69. Kangaroo says:

      Colin A. Thanks for referencing that legal reference.

      Perhaps Forward as One should have asked for an opinion on

      “Does the EU Withdrawal Agreement breach the essential Articles contained in the Treaty of Union ?”

      My opinion is that it does, but the question remains when does it “effectively” cause the breach? Is it
      a) 1st Feb 2020 when the UK left the EU, or
      b) 1st Jan 2021 when the effect of the Withdrawal Agreement is absolute.

      If it is a breach, as I contend, then perhaps it is not effective until 1st Jan 2021 at which point Independence happens automatically and can only be overturned by the Scottish people voting to reinstate the Union.

    70. HYUFD says:

      Kangaroo One of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever read, the Act of Union was signed over 250 years before the EU was even created

    71. Kangaroo says:

      Kangaroo @10:47pm

      I should have added that, if I am correct, then the best course of action is to effectively sit on our hands for 11 months, whilst simultaneously increasing the Yes vote.

    72. Kangaroo says:


      Come back to me with rational arguments when you have read the Treaty of Union and the Northern Ireland protocol.

      Your point that theTreaty was written a while ago is relevant how exactly?

    73. robertknight says:

      Johnfromfife@ 10:32

      “What is she frightened of”

      Newspaper headlines.

    74. Golfnut says:

      @ Hyufd.

      The Acts of Union, because there are two are the internal mechanisms used to bring the Treaty of Union into law, both the Kingdom of England’s constitutional law and the Kingdom of Scotland’s constitutional law. The ‘Treaty’ was signed by two Independent Sovereign
      England is bound by the Treaty under the same Articles Union as Scotland. To breach any part of the Treaty by either side can trigger withdrawal if the aggrieved chooses to do so.

    75. Golfnut says:

      @ Colin Alexander.

      It’s a must read for anyone interested in the Treaty.
      One of the main points I have taken from this is that just because Westminster does something doesn’t mean it has the legal authority to do it.
      The Withdrawal Bill falls right in there.

    76. Colin Alexander says:


      I think one of the big issues of the years has been that England as the UK has tried to treat the Treaty of Union as English domestic legislation, when it isn’t.

      The comparison given in the essay, (which it turns out is very topical, since today’s news reports are saying the UK Govt wants to abolish the Human Rights Act 1998), is that…

      Hold on, I’ll explain this first of all. The UK signed up to the Council of Europe, which has 47 members. It is a human rights organisation. It is the source of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). The ECHR is an international convention.

      The UK signed up to the ECHR and so has given the right of direct legal reliance in court on the ECHR via the Human Rights Act 1998 which has much of the same Human Rights Articles as the ECHR, such as Article 8, a right to a private and family life.

      The UK can repeal or amend the Human Rights Act 1998. They could even withdraw from the Council of Europe but, they can’t repeal the ECHR, as it is an international agreement which other countries are signed up to, so not under the control of UK Parliament.

      Similarly, the legal essay discusses that UK Parliament CANNOT amend the Treaty of Union ( except where the Treaty gives it explicit permission to do so), as it is an international treaty that was negotiated between TWO sovereign states: Scotland and England. Yet, the UK state’s UK Parliament HAS amended the Treaty in areas which are not supposed to open to amendment. Thus, has unlawfully changed the terms of the Treaty when it has no legal power to do so, in international law.

      So, that’s like the UK Govt not only repealing or amending the Human Rights Act 1998 ( UK legislation) but also legislating to repeal the ECHR which is an international convention / treaty which UK Parliament has no legal power to repeal or amend.

    77. Kangaroo says:

      Golfnut @11:12

      Your correct IMHO. However its not the Withdrawal Bill that is defeated. The twist is that the UK Parliament has “legally” instituted a customs regime for Northern Ireland which is different from Great Britain and therefore breaches the 1707 Treaty rendering the 1707 Treaty null and void. This becomes an absolute breach on 1st Jan 2021 and if necessary any Sovereign Scot can make the case, it does not have to be the SG but that woukd be the best forum.

    78. Kangaroo says:

      Colin A

      Your de facto correct when you say that the UK Parliament has tried to treat the Treaty as UK Domestic legislation when it isn’t.

      It has always been the English position that they have control over the whole of the UK and, de facto(in fact), they have through weight of numbers. However de jure(in law) the Treaty persists and it is the only document that binds the two Kingdoms.
      So IMHO on 1st Jan 2021 the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England once again become separate entities and the United Kingdom dissolves.
      The split of assets will be interesting, particularly in regard to foreign places that are still under British jurisdiction but were acquired after 1 May 1707. Gibraltar, Cyprus, Diego Garcia to name but three examples.

    79. Famous15 says:

      The Treaty of Union is the answer.

      BS by unionists for years that Scotland was extinguished is just that.

      Lord Cooper,Prof Walker,Sir John McCormick et al too numerous to mention
      have emphasised that a Treaty is a Treaty and no amount of Unionist politicking can override it.

      These are legal authorities whether in obiter dicta,learned writings or case law they all unite to provide an overwhelming legal case ,if one were needed,to affirm that a Treaty if breached only requires the party of the first part to declare the breach and require the ending of the Treaty. I would expect the Scottish Parliament to be the voice of that wish,whom failing a referendum of the Scottish peoples would also affirm such a wish. That referendum ,if required,would only require to be conducted fairly and would not require the “permission” of the UK Government. All legal all good in international law.

    80. Colin Alexander says:

      As regards the EU,

      The UK signed up to the Treaty of Lisbon (which I believe) turned the EC into the EU. Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty says that notice to exit from the EU must be approved in accordance with the constitution of the member state.

      UK State said the constitution of the UK State is that parliament is sovereign, so parliament decided on that.

      However, as we know, there was an advisory referendum ( not binding on a sovereign parliament) and Scotland voted Remain.

      But, I argue, there is no UK constitution: there are Scottish and English constitutions. In the English constitution UK Parliament is sovereign (Crown / Lords / Commons). In the Scottish constitution the people themselves have common or popular sovereignty (not the Crown, Lords or Commons).

      The UK State and EU have accepted UK Parliament’s votes to leave the EU as Article 50 having been triggered in accordance with the UK constitution.

      However, I’ve always argued, as the people of Scotland remain sovereign, a referendum decision, especially on a constitutional matter is not an expression of opinion, it is a binding decision by a sovereign people.

      So, with regard to the EU referendum, Scotland decided to Remain in the EU. The UK state (and the FM and Scottish Government) breached the constitution law of Scotland by overruling the sovereign people. In my view of Scots Law, there is no sovereignty of parliament: the people are sovereign.

      So, the Article 50 vote to leave was not in accordance with the constitutionS of the UK. It was only in accordance with the constitution of ENGLAND.

      And, the SNP, our champions of asserting “the people of Scotland are sovereign” to my knowledge, has NEVER raised any constitutional challenge based on sovereignty. They did go to court but, chose only to make a challenge on devolution Sewel Convention despite having previously asserting in the 2014 White Paper that the convention is only a convention, so strongly implying they already knew it was not legally enforceable despite the Smith Commission.

      That is part of the reason I repeatedly criticise the colonial administrator SNP.

    81. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Dorothy Devine (10.40) –

      Thank you kindly for your compliment, but I am duty-bound to report you to the site moderator for blatant sexism.

    82. HYUFD says:

      Kangaroo The 1707 Act of Union united the Parliaments of England and Scotland, was written a century before Ireland joined the Union, let alone Northern Ireland and over 250 years before the UK joined the EEC.

      So Brexit and the arrangements for Northern Ireland are irrelevant to the 1707 Act of Union

    83. Kangaroo says:

      Colin A

      UK Parliamentary Sovereingty was only ever a convention. Under English Law the Monarch delegated their Sovereignty to the English Parliament, however that parliament was dissolved in 1707 and hence the Monarch regained that Sovereignty.

      The people of Scotland have been Sovereign since the Declaration of Arbroath of 1320 and the then Popes agreement confirmed by later letter.

      The EU Withdrawal Agreement Act S38(i) asserts that “the Parliament of the UK is Sovereign”, however you can’t obtain something legally that is not yours in the first place, eg a stolen car does not belong to the thief just because he says it’s his. So the only Sovereignty that was legally granted to the UK Parliament by S38(i) was the English Monarchs and she did this by providing Royal Assent to the Bill.

      For “legal” clarity
      a) The UK Constituition is the 1707 Treaty of Union.
      b) both the English and Scottish legal traditions remain extant and have not been annulled by the UK Constituition, hence the reason why Scottish Law declared the proroguing of Parliament to be unlawful, whilst English Law did not.

      Agreed that referendums in Scotland are binding decisions as the people are Sovereign. That being the case a consultative referendum is an absurdity.

      EU Withdrawal stuff. This only had to be legal according to the conventions of the UK. The UK being the member state a majority vote in UK Parliament was, I believe, what was required. I assume the majority of Scots MPs voted Nay to the Bill, no matter it was driven through.

    84. HYUFD says:

      Golfnut Westminster is the supreme sovereign body for England and Scotland and voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, Scottish and English courts still function separately

    85. Kangaroo says:


      The 1707 Treaty united the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland as the United Kingdom. The KoE included Wales and Ireland at that time.

    86. Papko says:

      @John from Fife
      “What is she frightened of.”

      Losing a referendum perhaps? or worse still winning one.

    87. HYUFD says:

      Kangaroo Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland all shared a monarch by 1707 but only England and Wales were formally united before then

    88. HYUFD says:

      The people of Scotland also voted 55% to stay in the UK in the ‘once in a generation’ (in Salmond’s words) 2014 referendum.

      Scottish voters also voted 54% for Unionist parties at the 2019 general election well after the Brexit vote

    89. manandboy says:

      HYUFD – pissing in Wings tea.

      Pissing on Scotland.

      Over and over again.

      Time to put a stop to it.

      And don’t give me the free speech bit.

      Free speech here goes with responsibilities towards Scotland.

      All I hear is brainwashed BritNat hostility.

      Keep the piss out the tea.

    90. Famous15 says:

      HYFUD if the saying of it by you had any weight as aTory Councillor in Essex then what you painfully spout would be worrysome but the world is not listening to your anglocentric imperialism. International Law considers the law pertaining to the countries in alliance.

      Scotland is legally equal to your country of England in reference to the Treaty of Union.

      The only issue is how Scotland expresses its will. Most would accept the majority in the Scottish Parliament but if not a referendum conducted fairly under the auspices of the Scottish Parliament would be more than enough.

      Your repetition of once in a generation is as old as Boris Jonson being dead in a ditch and as much-use.

    91. Kangaroo says:

      HYFUD @1:09am

      Your man Henry numero 8 would disagree as he was King of Ireland following the Crown in Ireland Act of 1542, but Ireland was part of the English Kings Dominion long before that.

      HYFUD @1:12am

      Scottish people can vote for whom they like, it does not mean we can’t change our minds. They can reassess the situation as and when the facts change or even if they don’t, that’s democracy.

    92. twathater says:

      @ Lochside 6.10pm A great read also Colin A and Kangaroo and others apart from the FUD thanks for your posts and links

      I am grateful that Martin Keatings and FORWARD AS ONE are taking the legal challenge forward to clarify that Scots have the right to conduct a referendum on independence BUT I believe it would be better in the longer term clarifying the SOVEREIGNTY OF SCOTS through the international courts , we already have it ratified and registered in the records of Hansard in wastemonster , so their WM arguments are considerably weakened as would be their opposition , thereafter there could be no argument that Scots can hold any number of referendums for any subjects they choose

    93. Breeks says:


      I’m curious about Geoffrey Cox being sacked as Attorney General to be replaced by Suella Braverman. I don’t know the first thing about her, but Cox seemed an ardent Brexiteer who was muttering in a pro-Boris way about re-examining how Supreme Court judges were appointed.

      I wonder if Downing Street couldn’t find a room big enough to contain the two planet sized egos of Johnson and Cox simultaneously, or whether Cox got the heave-ho after Joanna Cherry did to Cox over Prorogation, what Karen Gillan did to Ryan Reynolds over trash talking. 🙂

    94. Kangaroo says:

      Breeks @7:15am

      I think Geoffrey Cox would be too strong a personality for Bojo and Cummings and they need a more compliant stooge. According to media sources Cox may be going to head up a review of the “Judges” as they are apparently straying into political areas.

      This is yet another songbook straight out of the 1930s.

    95. Sinky says:

      Arch Unionist Neil Oliver venting his spleen at this bunch in Scottsh government in Sunday Times.

    96. Margaret E says:

      Suella Braverman was Suella Fernandes before her marriage, worked for Matthew Elliott law firm in New York, was very high up in the Brexit campaign (Brexitcentral). She seems remarkably ill-equipped professionally for the job of Attorney General, in fact one would be hard put to it to find someone less qualified even in the current set.

    97. Joe says:

      Seeing a lot of history being talked about here. This is an extremely relevant documentary that anyone here should find interesting. Its a bit old and from mainly US perspective but the subject matter is as relevant now as ever. Strongly recommend watching in full

    98. HYUFD says:

      Twathater Of course there would,given international courts did sod all when the Spanish Civil Guard were clubbing and arresting Catalans for voting in an independence referendum the Spanish government ruled illegal, the idea they would do anything about Westminster ruling out indyref2 is absurd

    99. HYUFD says:

      Kangaroo Ireland was not formally part of the UK until the 1801 Act of Union, before then Ireland had its own Parliament. Scotland shared a monarch with England, Ireland and Wales from the early 1600s but again kept its own Parliament and did not formally create the UK until 1707.

    100. HYUFD says:

      Famous15 A majority of Scots oppose indyref2 this year and if the SNP fail to win a majority at next year’s Holyrood elections.
      Even if the SNP win a majority next year a plurality of Scots do not want indyref2 straight away.

    101. Ottomanboi says:

      RBS group is rebranding as NatWest group.
      That Scottish bit’s a no no. NatWest aka National Westminster pukka English moniker.
      Next step moving the hq to guess where?
      Scottish national powerlessness strikes again.
      Being chewed up and spat out by the English is becoming the national quirk.
      This really has got to stop.
      Anybody got a spine?
      Could we borrow it?
      Some people still rabbiting on about that ancient Treaty of Union. I can well imagine what Boris & Dom would do with that.
      There we agree. Appeals to international community did not stop the illegal US invasion of Iraq either. Rather naïve this belief that the ‘rule of law’ will put Scotland aright. It won’t, only the Scots with much more effect than employed so far, can do that.

    102. HYUFD says:

      Ottomanboi RBS branch offices will retain the RBS name it is only the group name that will become Natwest

    103. PacMan says:

      John from Fife says:15 February, 2020 at 10:32 pm

      Just came across on BBC parliament channel Nicola Sturgeon answering questions during her recent trip to the EU and I was disappointed to hear her say again that while not ruling out a non UK approved section 30 referendum she definitely wanted Westminster’s approval before she would go ahead with one. What is she frightened of.

      The strategy of the SNP over the last 30 odd years has been independence in Europe. It is obvious that if we become independent we would get back into Europe as long as independence is gained by legal and constitutional means, as much as that can be in a state that has no written constitution.

      It might be worth considering with her dealings with European officials and politicians have left her a tad too cautious to ensure that independence is achieved in a way there isn’t even a hint of illegality to it that can be exploited by opponents of independence to try and derail entry back into Europe?

    104. Rm says:

      Jackass Carlaw what an A- – – – – – e , people like him that have put Scotland where it is just now, there must be conservatives who want to stay conservatives but are proud to be Scots and would like Independence, if only one or two high profile Scottish Conservative Buisness People who can see the great future Scotland will have being Independent, for Buisness and working people throughout Scotland. Jackass Carlaw a Scotsman? What a laugh ha ha ha ha ha ha

    105. Effijy says:

      Is this the lull before the storm?

      Posts have become fewer and further between.
      This cartoon by Chris has only added 100 posts in 26 hours.

      We seem to know the destination we require but don’t seem
      To know exactly where we are or which way we are facing.

      I have rejected the latest SNP letter requesting more money,
      Unlike previous requests as I can’t see where and what the money
      Is going to do for my immediate desire for independence.

      All the stars are aligned for me with every part of the Indy Ref vow broken,
      Being dragged out of the EU against our will, yet another Tory government
      That Scotland didn’t vote for, a bugling prime minister who had made it clear
      He hates the Scots and who would always invest in England before Scotland
      And N Ireland who voted Remain like Scotland gets a special deal but we don’t
      Come in for consideration.

      A Serial Liar and Adulterer, a man who used physical restraint on his girl friend to an extent
      Where the Police were summoned, a man accused of groping women while he worked and a
      Man who obviously had relations with an American blond woman as long as he provided her
      With UK business opportunities she had no right to access.

      What more could we be hoping for to justify leaving the corrupt and fascist country next door after 300 years of abuse, insults and complete disregard?

    106. Craig Murray says:


      It is important always to remember that opponents of Independence from a country which is not an EU member state, will have no traction at all in Brussels. Whereas Scotland as an accession state will.

    107. jfngw says:

      Andrew Tickell giving comprehensive review of Jackson Carlaw’s history in Sunday National, I wouldn’t say it was complimentary.

      I see the cut and paste wanker from Essex is back.

    108. Colin Alexander says:

      @ Craig Murray

      The point you make is a very valid one.

      Yet, Nicola Sturgeon prioritised keeping the UK as part of the EU, thus giving the UK in the EU the power of veto over an indy Scotland’s application for EU membership. This seemed very strange for a party that asserts a policy of indy Scotland in the EU.

      Of course, we now know Nicola and the SNP leadership had no intention of independence for Scotland. So, they wanted to keep Scotland as part of the UK in the EU.

      So, the issue of a UK veto over Scotland’s EU application would never have arisen.

    109. Republicofscotland says:

      “It might be worth considering with her dealings with European officials and politicians have left her a tad too cautious to ensure that independence is achieved in a way there isn’t even a hint of illegality to it that can be exploited by opponents of independence to try and derail entry back into Europe?”

      Illegality, Johnson will never sanction another S30 order, the last indyref was too close to call for them. Scottish independence will need to be taken not given, Christ how many times do the likes of the Rev and Craig Murray need to tell folk this.

      Westminster won’t willingly give up a third of its land mass and all the assets that go with it. Its international recognition that we need not Westminster recognition, for as I say that’s a non starter.

      How many years are you prepared to sit back and wait for Johnson to say okay have your indyref, five years? Or if he gets a second tenure ten year? Or if the Tories extend their reign to fifteen years? Then what?

      And what about the damage the Tories will do to Scotland between now and then, would we even be in a position to hold a indyref by then.

      Scottish independence MUST be taken, for it will never willingly be given.

    110. Ottomanboi says:

      For fiduciary reasons the RBS style will be retained in Scotland but the bank’s old Scottish identity is being sloughed in favour of a City one.

    111. jfngw says:

      I will pick one point from Mr Tickell I have an issue with, he makes the comment about middle class chino wearers. I wear chinos and I assure him you will find few more common man than me, you don’t find many middle class people who grew up in Niddrie, Edinburgh, many still give the impression that a unpleasant odour is around if I mention it.

    112. jfngw says:

      I suspect the Tories are not going to scrap the licence fee, they are merey ensuring the BBC stays in line. Expect the BBC to get even wrse in its bid for survival. It would be better to close itself down that become even more despised.

      The above does not relate to Scotland of course, that ship has sailed. You can tell by the number of BT people that have been commissioned by the BBC in Scotland which side of the bed you should be on if you want to work for the BBC.

    113. Ottomanboi says:

      @Effijy 10:27
      It is high time we rose to this challenge, however with an official leadership which appears to be functioning in a different universe and according to a conventional set of rules the challenge may need to be taken up by others with more imagination.
      Scots, collectively, have been treated like minions for three hundred years yet many are in denial.
      Just how far are people prepared to take this cause.
      Logically it ought to be ‘no limits’ but that is a step too far for some and that ‘some’ is a significant element in the yes camp.
      Effectively, it is only the native failure of confidence that hinders.

    114. Willie says:


      Not surprised that any coverage of Jackson Carlaw would be less than complimentary.

      He is a used car salesmen who presided over the failure of two car dealers companies. Wylies and First Ford. Not exactly a mark of distinction.running a business. But there are plenty of private school educated dummies in the Tory party.

      One cannot therefore help think that as the time goes with Carlaw as Tory leader he will be increasingly exposed as a buffoon totally out of his depth.

    115. gus1940 says:

      Carcrash seems to have overdosed on the Verbal Diaorrhea Pills before going on to Brewer this am.

    116. PacMan says:

      Craig Murray says:16 February, 2020 at 10:28 am


      It is important always to remember that opponents of Independence from a country which is not an EU member state, will have no traction at all in Brussels. Whereas Scotland as an accession state will.

      True but the lies and misinformation about our unique sovereign rights in an unitary state could be exploited by elements in EU members states, the most obvious being Spain, for their own ends. While, it is doubtful that in any circumstances Spain would veto an independent Scotland gaining entry to the EU, they might use it to gain leverage which would give the EU complications that they don’t want or need. If the SNP meticulously ensured all the i’s were dotted and the t’s crossed, there will not be fear of that.

      However, that is just an opinion. We just don’t know what has been discussed by SG officials and politicians with their EU counterparts. I respect the EU and believe they are honourable and trust their word but we have to remember that they have other considerations in regards to us both within the EU and towards it’s relationships with the UK as well.

      Saying that though, the EU might just give an independent Scotland fast-tracked entry to weaken the UK if the Tories go ahead with their rhetoric by playing hard-ball and being a ruthless competitor with them or the Tories allow the UK to be used as a proxy of the US in their rivalry with the EU.

    117. PacMan says:

      Ottomanboi says: 16 February, 2020 at 11:11 am

      For fiduciary reasons the RBS style will be retained in Scotland but the bank’s old Scottish identity is being sloughed in favour of a City one.

      The British press had never liked the RBS, an upstart from ‘up north’ coming down and being one of the big boys. This really ramped up by the 2008 bailout and has got to the point where the brand is so toxic that a name change was inevitable. I’m surprised that it has taken so long.

      I’m constantly surprised given the brand recognition Scotland has throughout the world that the business community seems to focus on growth south of the border but of course, those who advocate that in the business community aren’t representative of it.

    118. Ottomanboi says:

      @Craig Murray
      Admire your faith in the EU but given the existential problems the organization is currently facing and failing to fix, Scotland is way down the list of ‘must do’.
      The EU lost its way when it was seduced by the bling of the anglo-saxon economic model, effectively it ceased to be European and became just another player in the globalization game. In that it is not alone, India, China, Japan also sold their souls to this whores’ bazaar and are at leisure reaping the bitter societal and cultural harvest.
      I believe in the European concept but have little faith that those currently in charge can rescue the idea. It will require the paradigm shift of a totally new generation who re-pose the question “What does it mean to be European?”
      A philosophical question. Où sont les intellectuels d’antan? Transfixed by the latest pap from NetFlix?

    119. HYUFD says:

      Ottomanboi Natwest used to be a building society, it never had an investment bank unlike RBS

    120. HYUFD says:

      Ignore my previous comment, was thinking of Abbey National

    121. HYUFD says:

      Pacman In any case the EU is hardly going to invade the UK to try and force Westminster to grant indyref2

    122. Ottomanboi says:

      I commend this history of the National Westminster Bank plc to you.
      Have a good day!

    123. Ottomanboi says:

      BritState with its dream of BritEmpire#2 will be even more a haven for dodgy money, buccaneering and privateering and casino style capitalism.
      On an individual level this seduces the mega rich and the gullible. Collectively, it signals the worst of private wealth, public squalor, societal fracture and cultural decline.
      Scotland can and must do better for its citizens.

    124. HYUFD says:

      Ottomanboi Will have a look

    125. HYUFD says:

      In the Republic of Ireland, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael and the Greens set to form a grand coalition government to exclude Sinn Fein

    126. kapelmeister says:

      Hi, Jackson Carlaw here. The only way Scots can prevent indyref2 is for a majority to vote for parties opposed to it. But even if a majority vote for indyref2, Uncle Boris will just say no. Quite right too.

      I’m Jackson Carlaw. I don’t do logic. I don’t do consistency. I don’t do democracy. I don’t need to. I’ve got some here in a bottle from 2014. A good year for democracy, that was.

      I’m an unashamed idiot. I’ve just been elected.
      I’m Jackson Carlaw!

    127. Effijy says:

      Laughing at HI FUD’s comment above:

      “Ignore my previous comments”

      We do! Trust me we do.

      Your homeland, Essex is quite an incredible place.
      The many have these fake teeth in stupendous white
      At £12,000 a go.
      Fake tans, tattooed eyebrows, and a mandatory dolphin
      Manicured and painted nails on hands and feet,
      Designer hand bag costing thousands and this is just the men.

      All supported on
      A £50k wage no matter how dumb your I.Q level is but as you have
      An easy London commute and they have Scotland’s revenue
      The world down there is just Lovely!


    128. Bill McLean says:

      Effijy – I live “down there” and can tell you it’s far from lovely for ordinary people. I ignore HYUFD too as i’m disappointed that he hasn’t told us why staying in this corrupt, racist, sectarian, war-mongering, class-ridden, debt-ridden, bull-shitting union is good for us.

    129. sassenach says:

      Wonder what it was that awakened FUD, again?
      He’s all over this site like a rather nasty rash.
      Is his intention to argue that Scotland should be imprisoned by him and his Essex Tories, for ever?

      Something tells me they are getting VERY worried about Indy!!

    130. jfngw says:


      You are right in the ‘if he can’t run a small car company why does he think he can run a £30bn economy’. I’ll wait for HYUFD to answer that one.

      The piece in the National goes much deeper than that, his history is of toadying to whatever leader is in place, his high admiration for Michael Howard and IDS. It would lead you to think he is a despicable character. He even picks a deputy of the same ilk, admittedly it’s a canny move, no threat there from an intellectual superior, although it’s a close call I think.

      He is a political van Klomp.

    131. jfngw says:


      You have to excuse him, he sees himself as Thomas Fairfax to Johnson’s Oliver Cromwell. the great protectors of the union. Although I think Johnson sees himself more as Churchill and may be displeased with HYUFD, forever now exiled to fight in an unwinnable council constituency (well unwinnable for him anyway).

    132. HandandShrimp says:

      Jackson Carlaw is a boon and a blessing to the independence cause. The SNP haven’t always been as sharp as they should be but they have been very fortunate in their opposition (or lack of it).

      As I recall Jackson was dead against people voting for the golden eagle as Scotland’s national bird. I think he wanted a one legged pigeon from Central Station with the motto “got any spare change”. Carlaw is terrified of anything that makes Scotland look in anyway good, interesting or self confident.

      He may muse over the word generation. If he understood politics he would do better to muse over the word opportunity.

    133. Dr Jim says:

      Show of hands from all the posters on WOS who go on to English websites to troll that country? Now would be the perfect time to be trolling England as they’re having terrible difficulty with floods and the ruining of their homes, so what an opportunity that would be for us, do we do it?

      I bet there’s none here, yet the troll from Epping in England floods this website daily because he thinks he has a right to Why does he think that? what kind of person or people do this?

      We Scots are apparently the bad guys yet I’m betting nobody here does that in the hope and purpose of upsetting people

      Anybody with any doubts over why this happens isn’t looking hard enough

    134. Colin Alexander says:

      Here is the infamous Annex A:

      This was written over SEVEN years ago.

      It says, among many other controversial assertions that: “2. First of all, the status of Scotland before the union of 1707 would be of little or no relevance. In particular, the Treaty of Union, considered with or without the Acts of Union, does not currently sound as a treaty in international law”.

      There is no case law or legal source quoted to support such an assertion.Contrast this with the legal opinion I referenced last night which said the Treaty of Union is a treaty in international law.

      Sturgeon says everything must be done legally. (She seems to think the Scotland Act is the only applicable law). Yet, when it comes to establishing what the law is, the tune changes to: best to settle things politically.

      Those who favour political settlement of issues without going to court, ignores the glaringly obvious reality that the UK State is openly hostile to Scotland’s independence. In effect it means, independence must be on the UK’s terms. eg Never.

      The Annex A also says: “Reversion to a previous independent state such as the pre-1707 Scottish state may not be excluded. But it normally depends on conditions that are absent here, such as the unwilling subjugation of the former state”.

      Was the subjugation of Scotland something the people of Scotland willingly agreed to?

      The union was created by a mixture of threats and bribes, including the threat of invasion if Scotland did not agree to the union.

      The SNP continue to insist everything can and will be sorted by political cooperation. I suppose that’s true to an extent: England as UK says No and Sturgeon’s SNP cooperates in colonial servitude.

    135. McDuff says:

      PacMan 10.10
      Of course when Sturgeon talks of getting UK approval it is in fact English approval as they completely dominate and rule parliament. And that really angers me.

    136. Colin Alexander says:

      Talking of Cromwell. The Richard Harris Cromwell film was on the TV other week.

      In the film, some of the Commons MPs were pro-Royalist and trying to make secret deals that favoured the monarchy.

      Then, in the film, to discourage those MPs who were sympathetic to the parliamentarians,they said: “We must think very carefully”.

      I wonder if that’s where Cameron and Queen got the line from that the Queen then used just days before the indyref vote?

    137. Dr Jim says:

      Why is England so afraid to stand on its own feet without Scotland
      Why did England relinquish control of Northern Ireland so easily
      Why does England keep talking about *their Union* when they’re happy to let one part of it go (Norn Ireland) but are terrified of allowing the other part (Scotland) the same freedom

      England is saying two different things to two different parts of *their Union* They’ve clearly told Norn Ireland (you have no money so if the EU and Ireland wants you you can leave)

      England is saying to Scotland (you can’t go because you do have money even if every last one of you wants to leave because England needs your money)

      Now they can’t continue to say they love us Boris Johnson has made that clear when he called us Vermin, plus the Internet is clogged up with people from England trolling Scotland with hate messages tyrannical rants and misinformation about England’s superiority over all things

      Some of todays regular trolls from England over on the FMs twitter keep punting the line that the SNP control the oil and the Scottish media and that’s how they stay in power
      Is that what England believes? and who told them that utter garbage and lies if they do believe it, and if they do it means they’re trolling Scotland without any knowledge of why they’re doing it except they’re outraged at people like us demanding a say on what they believe is something they own

      The thing is it doesn’t matter because the reason they troll us is because they think they have that right as part of *their* country

      Ownership is the delusion of England brainwashed into them by their own government

    138. velofello says:

      Carlaw and Wells; Leonard and {?);Rennie and Cole-Hamilton,jings. We seriously need a group to keep the SNP on it’s toes.. be it a List MSP only Indy party, or a formally organised Yes movement. We are drifting.

      Maybe the SNP should just concentrate on “running the store”. I read recently that Peter Morrell has been in his post for 21years! Hardly signs of a dynamic executive. I’ve been in the SNP for 30 years, I’m not at all content with events, meaning the absence of such.

      The AUOB provide excellent visibility, and will face up to authority intransigence, the SNP whimpers to Westminster for – an unnecessary S30 permit.

    139. jfngw says:

      @Dr Jim

      He’s not here to debate but to, as you say troll, he wants to bait people to pass the time. He has that traditional BritNat superiority that has won them so many friends around the globe. Best to ignore or just reply with nonsense.

      I only post on here, and very rarely on WGD, James Kelly & Peter A Bell site (although Mr Bell can be a bit acerbic at times).

      Pre 2014 I used to comment on the Guardian site, in fact if the handles are the same people then some still post here. Couldn’t put up with their Scotland coverage eventually (esp Severin Carroll) so dump it completely in 2016.

    140. HandandShrimp says:

      Dr Jim

      Personally I don’t see it as any of my business what goes on in an English site, or US, Dutch etc., It wouldn’t cross my mind to go and pass comment.

      I have commented on UK forums, mainly the Groaniad or international forums like the James Randi one (sceptics forum). I’m assuming there are English sites like Wings. I haven’t looked.

    141. jfngw says:

      When Johnson says he loves Scotland, I believe him, its just the people who live here he thinks are vermin. The land and resources, well that’s a different matter.

      Although they have always had a special place for your offspring when cannon fodder is needed for their interminable wars, you are once again a beloved asset. The way to leverage that asset is to keep them impoverished so, for some, fighting is basically your only means of income.

    142. jfngw says:


      One of the reasons I believe we may need a second (list) independence party is the SNP as the ScotGov are compromised in they have to represent all voters. Another party does not have the weight of government around its neck and can be more radical in its parliamentary motions.

      Not the Greens, I have no desire to go back to sackcloth and bringing out your dead.

    143. iain mhor says:

      I don’t mind those who believe in the UK as perhaps some Unitary ‘British’ State, if not ‘Unionist state’ – that’s entirely up to them to believe in whatever they wish. However, I do like to establish which it is (what happened to England & Scotland, were both those Kingdoms extinguished, just one, or neither) before proceeding with any related discussion.

      As an example: the position for a Unitary British State, created from two prior Independent States, which extinguished both – Logically, this means there remains no party to which any Act or Treaty applies, such Acts/ Treaties were rendered void at the point of ratification.

      Establishing a position, I believe, leads to a more logical discussion – for a framework has been set upon which either may build: Unitary/ Union/ Other.
      So it pains me and I struggle to read, continual responses to some Unionist/ Unitard commentators, where I have no idea what either side’s position is and neither apparently do the antagonists.
      Perhaps this is a reflection of the political state in which we live and/or, I am hard of understanding.

      Wikipedia, professes that the UK (like the majority of the worlds States) is a Unitary State. The internal legislations of this professed ‘Unitary State, makes specific references to, and rely upon the existence of (apparently) non-existant Kingdoms. This Unitary State has a monarchy which also references, relies opon and derives its position on (logically) non-existant Kingdoms.
      A Unitary State is one State – One Kingdom – One Nation, One Parliament, One Government, One Law (occasionally One Monarchy) whose constitution may be dispensed, amended, repealed, abrogated, or otherwise devolved, as the State sees fit. Logically, this cannot apply to the United Kingdom as currently instituted; however much it is stated, or described elsewhere.

      I have asked the likes of HYUFD his position on a couple of occasions but received no reply – so I cannot engage – it would be a pointless and illogical exercise for me. Nor do I like to make bald assumptions if I can avoid it. Certainly ‘H’ appears to argue from the position of a Unitary State, but then makes errors in internal logic by referring to Unionism and vice-versa.

      This type of inconsistency is not the sole preserve of Unionists/Unitards I might add; nor is this boring moan of mine directed solely at particular commentators – I have asked the same question of politicians and appeared to cause some malfunction of reason.

      I’m happy to concede, for any debate’s sake, that the ‘UK’ is indeed a Unitary State, but that requires some genuinely interesting explanations – as do any other permutations relating to Unions and Kingdoms (extinguished or otherwise) But I cannot concede some amalgamation of several standpoints and then be expected to proceed with any logical consistency.

      So I don’t and I remain perplexed by those who do.

    144. The truth is Scotland has been bankrolling the rest of the U.K. ., for years if England lost all of Scotland’s input she would struggle to survive now that is a fact so they will never let you go without a fight,and that’s a fact you can state all manner of facts on sites like this but it won’t change a thing they just ignore you because the truth has them beat that is why they hid and never mention the Macrone report

    145. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim Northern Ireland has a border with another EU country, the Republic of Ireland, unlike Scotland and a hard border with the Republic of Ireland would breach the Good Friday Agreement. Northern Ireland is thus a different case

    146. Graeme says:

      HYUFD says:
      16 February, 2020 at 12:39 pm

      “Ignore my previous comment, was thinking of Abbey National”

      I ignore all your comments, why? because you’re a fucking prick

    147. Dr Jim says:

      If you live in a semi-detached your next door neighbour doesn’t get to be in charge of your house because he’s got the biggest family even if you have a shared driveway, and he doesn’t get to take whatever vegetables that grow in your garden and eat or sell them to somebody else, nor does he get to invent new joint neighbour rules that affect you without asking for any agreement from you, if he did he wouldn’t be a next door neighbour anymore he would be a thief and a thug you would report to the council and police

      We live next door to the neighbour from hell who says he owns the police and the council, so we could move house, but he owns the bank so we’re stuck there

      Unless our other neighbours nearby offer us their help in resolving this difficulty our intransigent neighbour is leaving us with only one choice, our neighbour in the past has lived in many houses and behaved in the same way to those neighbours, so what did they do to get rid of this troublemaking thief of a neighbour

    148. Mist001 says:

      @ Graeme


    149. Dan says:

      Hey, cut the Germinator some slack today as he’s probably bored oot his napper with being stuck indoors because his country is at a standstill due to the QE2 bridge closure.
      I learnt from his unionist compatriots last week that a bridge closure can do that sort of thing…

      So Holyrood will now have performances by The Stereochronics aka Carlaw & Wells as the lead singers for the unionists’ hymn sheet, with The Moronic Keich Preachers of Rennie & Leonard as their supporting act.

      Turns to camera and mutters ironic Jazzclub “Nice”…

    150. jfngw says:

      BBC staff now tweeting what great value the BBC is, and I can see if you are a BritNat it is. You have all independence supporters that want to watch any live TV subsidising your propaganda channel.

      If it is such great value then going subscription would be a no brainer, it would stop all licence evasion and they could scrap all the enforcement officers around the country harassing people who don’t want their product. Surely it would save them a fortune, after all they already have a direct debit system in place.

      Or could it be they are happy with the current situation, the voice of Westminster, the government courtiers with their special relationships. Money rolling no matter what the quality of the product.

    151. Dr Jim says:

      You have to laugh at the English the way they talk about respecting some things but refusing to respect others because it doesn’t suit them to

      The facts are England is a gutless country afraid to stand on its own feet without Scotlands assets, because it can’t afford to and that’s why Norn Ireland was let go, they have no money and the EU ordered Johnson to release them or no documents of any deal would ever have been signed to allow Johnson to claim his hollow victory over nothing

      The next round is beginning shortly and Johnson already knows he’s on to a kicking from the EU so is faking his no deal confidence line in the simple knowledge that the EU are in charge and not him as he feigns outrage at what he knows is going to be a major part of the deal or no deal and pretends to England everything’s OK because he planned for it

      Yeah sure he did

    152. Robert Louis says:

      Graeme at 457pm,

      Easily wins prize for best comment of the decade.

    153. Dan says:

      @jfngw says at 5:31 pm

      BBC staff now tweeting what great value the BBC is…

      One wonders if that value was increased or decreased after Donalda leaving.

    154. jfngw says:

      The BBC are always keen to poll whether the nations want their parliaments/assemblies scrapped but never ask whether these same people would want Westminster scrapped. I wonder why?

    155. Dan says:

      Correction to post at 5.38pm, she is actually still in place.
      For some reason I thought she had moved on, presumably because I hadn’t noticed any particular improvement in the perceived bias in BBC Scotland she was going to address…

    156. Robert Louis says:

      Iain Mhor at 352pm,

      This is the important question, if the treaty of union, according to some of these pig-ignorant unionists extinguished Scotland, then surely it extinguished England too. But, of course, due to rampant English exceptionalism (to whom rules and reality do not ever apply), the English think it was just Scotland that was extinguished.

      The simple explanation is that English unionists believe that England exists and that Scotland was extinguished. I believe they actually paid two legal stooges to argue that during the previous indyref.

      As for Scottish unionists, they are perfectly happy with the notion that Scotland was extinguished – hence the running around in Engerland football shirts by the knuckle draggers at Ibrox.

      The reality of course is that neither was extinguished. The treaty formed a single administration by respective acts of union, the formation of a treaty under intenrational law, between two equally sovereign states. A treaty, incidentally, which either Scotland or England can end, as it so chooses. No ‘permission’ from De pfeffle, the English clown prime minister is required.

      The only thing holding the union together is that treaty. It is truly astonishing the number of unionists and other Scots who have mo idea that is how it works. The 1707 treaty is NOT irrelevant, it is an active document – why else would England have allowed us to keep Scots law some three hundred years later?

    157. twathater says:

      Watched Broadcasting Scotland earlier with 2 guests 1 from AUOB the other from SIF , the AUOB chap was saying that they were preparing and organising the marches for the rest of 2019 with special emphasis on the Arboath March and claim of right 100th anniversary , he also spoke about a gathering the AUOB organised yesterday which was well attended and many ideas were spoken about

      The lady from SIF was encouraging groups and organisations to approach them for funding projects that may help the indy cause

      During the broadcast there was no mention of forming another independence supporting party to challenge the list seats or to discuss whether people would be supportive of a move in that direction
      The AUOB chap also said that there was some discussion about naming targets for individual marches eg naming a March about our EU removal he also said it was highlighted that we need MORE music at the marches to make it even more enjoyable

      TBH I have been on quite a few marches which I found enjoyable and uplifting but I don’t want more marches or endless discussion forums I WANT INDEPENDENCE , I WANT THE SNP GOVERNMENT WE ELECTED TO STOP F***ING ABOUT WITH THE GRA PISH AND FIGHT WM ( DORIS ) WITH EVERY TOOL THEY HAVE TO GET US THERE , before Stu and ALL the other patriotic bloggers die of boredom

    158. Robert Louis says:

      I truly look forward to the day, the TV license (Tax), is scrapped. Just watch as every single self-respecting Scot, bins it on day one.

      Who in their right mind would pay for such blatant pro-London rule, anti-scottish propaganda.

      If De pfeffle the English clown prime minister abolsihes the TV license, he will have done all of us a great favour. Hopefully it would lead to the closure of pathetic quay. It’d be good to see the likes of Glenn Campbell on the dole, unable to punt his unionist views to Scotland, anymore.

      Bye, bye, BBC. You really will not be missed up here.

    159. Robert Louis says:

      twathater at 551pm,

      Totally with you on your last paragraph.

      Every week, I just ask myself the same question, what have the Scottish Government done this week to push independence and stop Scotland being dragged out of the EU (they have multiple democratic mandates for both). Sadly, this week, as with most weeks, the answer is nothing.

    160. Robert Louis says:

      McDuff at 213pm,

      Yip, me too. the FM constantly begging ‘permission’ from England to hold a freaking referendum, is not just stupid and unecessary, it is actually embarrassing now.

      Get off your knees for heavens sake, Nicola, and have a bit of self respect.

    161. meg merrilees says:

      So that’s it then – the COP 26 summit will have to be moved away from Glasgow now.

      According to the Mail on Sunday – the only paper to run the story – all the information anyone could ever need to mount a terrorist attack has been published accidentally by the Government.

      Doesn’t say which Government so I presume it is Westminster, because they would definitely have blamed the SNP if they could.

      Amazingly, all the maps of underground tunnels, electricity supplies, gates, exits etc – places where you could mount a terrorist attack on the large gathering of assembled world leaders – this security material is now available online.

      How could someone accidentally put this stuff online – all me a cynic but I smell a smell.

      oh, dear, oh dear, oh dear, what a dreadful mistake, how could that have happened, what can we do now…. looks like we’ll have to move the summit away from Glasgow for security reasons now, sorry Nicola, don;’know how that could have happened….

      Why only the Mail on Sunday? No prizes for guessing.

      Perfidious Albion once more…..

    162. Grouse Beater says:

      Chris, when are we going to see a full-length animated story in the cinemas of your cartoons? Askin’ fir a few thousand pals.

      Your essential weekend reading:

      ‘Ireland United’:

    163. sassenach says:

      Well said Graeme, it’s a perfect description of the FUD.

    164. jfngw says:

      If you voted the last time the Tories won in Scotland you would now be at least 85 years old (voting age in 1955 was 21 I believe).

    165. Lochside says:

      While the SNP are sleepwalking into another year of inaction and pleading for a’gold standard’ Referendum which even the dugs in the street know aint happening, something far more imminent is on the horizon, which is definitely going to occur.

      I refer to the new Constitution of the ‘Union’. The Johnson/Cummings axis of Evil(evel) is pushing this attempt to bind Scotland into a vice from which all the ‘gold standard’ anythings will mean precisely zilch.

      I referred to Cromwell earlier because I see a rerun of how, historically,Scotland fatally sided with revolutionary forces in England which turned and crushed our remaining freedom and incarcerated us into a ‘Protectorate’ or dictatorship of ‘Great Britain’. I foresee a New Constitution of the ‘Union’, with this time prohibition of ‘separatist’ movements and referenda for any such parties.

      We know the ground has been laid with the bogus claims of Scotland’s ‘extinguishing’ by the 1707 Union. We know this is a lie, but one that has never been challenged. The Johnson/Cummings elective dictatorship will easily utilise this fiction to validate a ‘healing of division’ etc. The important facet of this Constitution is that it will enable the Britnat State to defacto and de jure characterise any Referenda or moved to assert Scottish self determination as ‘secession’ as per Catalonia, something which at the moment they are unable to do in the court of International opinion.

    166. jfngw says:

      Outside a totalitarian state how many countries have had to endure a government it didn’t vote for 63% of the time since it last did win (counting from 1959 – 2024).

      On the other side the party that Scotland voted for has only governed for 37% of this period. Talk about a democratic deficit. Imagine the uproar if this was the case in England.

      Technically the Conservatives have never won an election in Scotland. In 1955 it was 30 Unionists and 6 Nat Lib & Con (I assume these were Nationalist Liberals). Labour actually won most seats as an individual party.

    167. Republicofscotland says:

      “This is the important question, if the treaty of union, according to some of these pig-ignorant unionists extinguished Scotland, then surely it extinguished England too.”

      The very fact that we had an indyref in 2014 shows clearly that Scotland hasn’t been subsumed by England, nor can it be permanently binded to this union.

      Our biggest threat to gaining independence isn’t from Westminster, though if we hesitate for too long it will be, no its the inactivity of the Scottish government to take steps to facilitate a referendum as soon as possible.

    168. Dr Jim says:

      Jimson Carplant in his interview today did admit one thing, that he was now speaking for the minority

    169. jfngw says:

      ‘It’s time to bring this era of democracy to an end… for good’, well Jackson Carlaw wrote nationalism but in effect he means democracy as the only way he can halt the drive to end the union is to outlaw parties he doesn’t agree with.

      Would he support the take over of Holyrood by Westminster, the FM deposed and himself being installed as vichy FM, something tells me it is the only Yes he would agree to, with Annie Wells as Deputy FM (let that sink in).

    170. Dr Jim says:

      Let’s all fervently hope that Jimson Carplant gets a sore throat in time for FMQs, I’ll get sweeties and ginger and popcorn in to watch Annie Whelp

    171. HYUFD says:

      jfngw Most Scottish domestic policy is now determined at Holyrood anyway.

      Plus to take another example, in the US the state of California (with a population and area several times the size of Scotland) has since 2000 not had the President it has voted for 60% of the time either nor the Congress it has voted for most of that time either. Yet like Scotland it also has its own legislature

    172. Dr Jim says:

      There goes the Troll again comparing sizes and amounts of people in other places to disguise his Nazi agenda

      One rule for you and no rules for me, he’ll be calling Herr Johnson D’artanion next

    173. HYUFD says:

      Republic of Scotland 56% of Scots oppose an independence referendum this year

    174. Effijy says:

      Exactly HI FUD.

      Scotland is a country with its own language, culture and traditions.

      California is a state. Stolen from Mexico where it belonged.

      Ah, now there is a comparison.


      You are wasting your time on this site.
      You could be at Morris Dancing Classes,
      Persecuting the Windrush Children, the Jewish
      Community or Muslims perhaps.

      Go Tugging your forelock for Boris and his chums
      and get ready for your Zero Hours Contract.

    175. jfngw says:

      Oh God

      Blah..blah.. blah..blah..mince. Guess who?

    176. Republicofscotland says:

      “Republic of Scotland 56% of Scots oppose an independence referendum this year”

      The last three polls have shown a 50% plus in favour of independence. If we look back at 2014, we can see once a date was set for the indyref support for independence jumped, even though the full weight of the British wheel of lies and deception took centre stage.

      No I’m confident once a date is set, support for independence will rise even higher than the mid fifties.

      Of course the real stumbling block to naming a date isn’t Johnson, no he’s insignificant, a bit part player that can be bypassed.

      The real problem is Sturgeons reluctance to pursue a route to independence, that in reality is the only way out of this unfit for purpose union.

    177. Effijy says:

      With the next Westminster election in 2025, that will be a full 70 years
      Since Scotland last voted Conservative and even then it was a mix of parties
      Who aligned with them that gave a majority.

      So SNP officials can you please beat the Tories to death with the fact that for
      Generation after generation after generation the Scots have refused the Tory
      Doctrine emphatically.

      Even in 1955, they did nothing for Scotland and it’s fair to say the Tories have done
      Nothing for Scotland at any time in the last 300 yesrs.

      What is it they don’t get about we don’t want them and they have no future here?

    178. jfngw says:


      HYUFD likes to quote that flawed yougov poll as the question is nebulous. It’s unclear how the data was constructed as they produced a percentage for each option which indicates to me they allowed you to vote in every option. So all those that never want a referendum vote no every time but those that do are split across the categories, except the last one which effectively includes all the others, hence you give the impression that no wins most categories.

      In my case in this poll I would have voted Yes to this year and within the next 5 years as this includes this year, the others I would vote no. It’s how you germander a poll to produce the result you want in my opinion.

    179. dakk says:

      @ hyfud

      Isn’t there a flooded parish within a couple hours drive from you which you could help slopping out after all the rain.

      If you had any sense of community you would be doing something useful for your fellow countryman rather than waste your time trolling Scottish people.

      Little wonder the people of England won’t elect you.

    180. HYUFD says:

      Effiji Scotland may have its own language but only about 1% of Scots speak Gaelic and only 30% speak Scots.

      Most English counties have their own culture and traditions too

    181. Pete Barton says:

      Unless I’ve missed something

      Scotland is a country.

      I wouldn’t mind discussing our constitution,from the constituent parts of the UK poin the of view, but..

      I will not contemplate responding to baited comments from a contributor who seems to be ignorant of matters involved, from a learned point of view.

      FUD, I bet you liked poking wasps’ nests as a kid.

    182. jfngw says:


      That’s colonialism for you, the first thing they do is to try and wipe out language and culture, as you infer the English have been successful colonists.

    183. Joe says:

      @ Lochside

      Good points made there. I will say though that the bigger enemy is corporate globalism disguised as ‘progress’. Nationalists of every stripe are up against it together one way or another. My guess is that Johnston, like his hero Churchill secretly serves that hidden hand

    184. Rm says:

      The Scottish people will take the route to Independence into their own hands, and once we get Independence every party can fight it out in an election or we can do things differently work together so everybody has a say no matter how much they have.

    185. Republicofscotland says:

      “HYUFD likes to quote that flawed yougov poll as the question is nebulous. ”

      I take his comments with a pich of salt, Petes as well, their modus operandi is clear.

      However we shouldn’t get hung up on polls in the first place. I think the last election showed that if Sturgeon calls we will answer, and I translate that into a indy majority, if she gets round to holding a referendum.

    186. Pete Barton says:

      Interesting to see Unison,GMB and Labour for independence coming into the light..

      Even a reference to Scottish senior Tories mulling over Scots’right to choose their future.

      Is this an olive branch, or a fig leaf to fool us into Federalism fairy territory?

    187. Bill McLean says:

      HYUFD – Wow!

    188. meg merrilees says:

      Republic of Scotland at 7.07

      Our biggest threat to gaining independence isn’t from Westminster, though if we hesitate for too long it will be, no its the inactivity of the Scottish government to take steps to facilitate a referendum as soon as possible.

      Do you not think that the people of Scotland have a role to play in this as well. We can’t just sit back and blame the Scottish Government – we have to show everyone – the Scottish Government, the UK Government and the rest of the world that we want Independence.
      (I don’t mean by violent means in any shape or form).

      We have to rise up like the Catalonians, 1 million people on the streets demanding our right.

    189. Pete Barton says:

      Or perhaps the tide has turned already?

      Some don’t want to be left beached?

    190. meg merrilees says:

      Did anyone listening to QT from Dundee last week here the bit where Joanna Cherry was talking about the Union and said the UK was a Union of two countries, Scotland and England. About two seconds later a great muttering was arising in the audience as people were trying to correct her and say it was a Union of 4 countries etc…

      Joanna cut them off straight away and said that the Treaty of Union has only two signatures on it – the signature of the country of Scotland and the signature of the country of England.
      Because it came from her I think that will have sunk home and no-one questioned her statement.

    191. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 5.51
      I was at yesterday’s AUOB meeting and the new party for the list seats was certainly discussed.
      The wheels for it are definitely in motion and the response to it there was generally positive.

    192. jfngw says:

      @meg merrilees

      You are 100% correct, if the people of Scotland are willing to be dormats then it’s hardly surprising that Westminster will wipe their feet on them. The problem is many like the idea of change but don’t want to take the personal risk. To say there is no risk is deceiving people, there is always a risk with upheaval, the Irish embrace it, disappointingly I’m not sure the Scots have the bottle.

    193. Pete Barton says:

      Henry, Gordon, Alex..come on guys, Slab has no future denying our people a choice.

      Even 40% of Slab voters are now favourable to independence.

      Work it out!

      There comes a time when even the most ardent British unionist feels distinctly uncomfortable denying reality.

      A vote on having our say is one thing, a vote to decide independence is another.

      If we are indeed better all together,

      what’s to fear a properly informed choice?

      I’m told I need to ‘shop around’ by all my utility companies I choose.

      Fair play.

      But this debate and choice is denied to us at those rarified upper levels that we can’t hope to understand?

      Jackson Carlaw is a prick.

      Sorry, I just needed to say that.

    194. Republicofscotland says:

      “Do you not think that the people of Scotland have a role to play in this as well. We can’t just sit back and blame the Scottish Government – we have to show everyone – the Scottish Government, the UK Government and the rest of the world that we want Independence.”

      The problem here is that only a certain amount of folk who will vote yes take to the streets, AUOB marches canvassing, street corner stalls etc. However I believe there’s a silent majority that will only become active on voting day, once a date has been set.

      Without a date the incentive for some who will vote yes is dormant, we saw that in the 2014 indyref. I expect the last three years to have incentivised even more folk to vote yes on the day, once a date is set.

      More recently you only have to look at the GE, Sturgeon asked us to vote for her, and we didn’t disappoint. Yes a indyref isnt a GE, however in both its about protecting Scotland from Westminster.

      I’m fairly confident that once a date is named indy activities will increase in the grassroot area. But we can’t wait too long the longer Sturgeon waits the more likely it is that Westminster will find a way to thwart independence, especially with Johnson and Cummings in office.

    195. Fireproofjim says:

      You are right. When the date of the referendum is announced there will be a surge in interest and a boost to the Yes vote.
      Right now, unless you are a political nerd (like most of us on Wings), you don’t see any excitement and you are rather treading water.
      We need that date. Then the buzz will start.

    196. jfngw says:

      @Pete Barton

      Maybe some see an opportunity here, the end of the union would be a cataclysmic blow to the Tories. They may not particularly like the Scots but it would be the final dagger in their empirical delusions. Whether it’s Scotland that goes first or NI it will have a domino effect on the other, Wales then needs to make a choice.

    197. Scott says:

      Jack Carcrash reply to me on cult.

      I’m afraid all the hallmarks of a cult are present. A willingness to ignore the comprehensive failure of delivery on the devolved responsibilities and to sacrifice that responsibility and excuse that failure in the name of an unyielding quest for an objective soundly rejected by the majority in our largest ever plebiscite.

      That is all he has SNP BAD.

    198. Dan says:

      @meg merrilees at 8:41 pm

      2 Countries? Surely 2 Kingdoms is a far better and more accurate response to give whenever the Union is being described.
      It covers the 4 nations so also acknowledges both Wales and Northern Ireland, and importantly also highlights the matter of the Queen with her two crowns and the resultant differences the monarch has in relation to the people of both kingdoms.

      I also noted a failure to rebuke the “Only 45% voted SNP line” which our own HYUFD has given us endless practice in correcting, as one simply needs to point out that a GE does not allow 16 & 17 year olds, plus most EU Nationals a vote. Plus a significant number of Labour voters are also pro-Indy.

      This failure to simply and quickly rebuke endless Yoon lines of attack boils my piss.
      I’m a fuckin idiot yet I know this stuff. It’s fuckin ridiculous that our politicians are not able to get a handle on this.

    199. Pete Barton says:


      Did he really write that?


    200. Pete Barton says:

      Jings, that’s some wind ..

      Hope you’re all safe..

    201. jfngw says:


      The largest ever plebiscite was the EU referendum in Scotland, 600K difference compared to 400K in the Indyref. That is all that can be compared as the voting criteria was not the same (EU vote had a lower eligibility but a higher difference in the outcome).

      His other comment is no more than you are a cult if you don’t agree with me, just basically pish.

    202. KOF says:

      @Meg Merrilees 20:41

      The first line of the Treaty of Union with England,1707, “That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England shall upon the first day of May …”.

      Ms Cherry is wrong.

    203. Robert Louis says:

      Meg merrilees at 837pm,

      I totally agree, but here’s the point, it is the elected MSP’s MP’s and Scotgov who are literally PAID to enact their electoral mandate.

      It is all very well, saying people need to rise uo, but leadership is needed and right now NS is not showing any at all.

      It is thoase in positions of power and being very highly paid as poiliticians who need to start setting the agenda. Blaming ‘the people’, for not rising up in the streets, is pointless, and is more akin to an excuse for politicans to sit back and do nothing. They might say ‘oh, we’ll do something once we see a swelling of support for indy , or the polls rise above 60%’. That is lazy excuse making, of the very highest order. An excuse to do nothing.

      Take a look through history at campaigns, and all of them had leadership. Right now, the supposed ‘leadership’ of Scottish independence, the FM, is happy to sit back, twiddle their thumbs and whine that ‘Boris winnae let them’. So they do nothing, and the clock keeps on ticking. Where is THEIR fight? Where is THEIR ‘uprising’? Where is THEIR anger?

      The Scotgov and SNP leadership should be proactive, not reactive. They are sitting waiting for things to change, instead of actually making change happen.

      It is lazy, it is disingenuous, and it is, wuite frankly, a disgrace.

      And do you think Scotland might see the number marching in Scotland as is seen in Catalunya, if we had so-called ‘leaders’ here, who were as dedicated and determined as those in Catalunya?? I think so.

      It is piss-poor leadership. It stinks.

    204. jfngw says:

      @Pete Barton

      Yeh, I think I’ll pass on the turnip next time, but I’m OK. Thanks for asking.

    205. Pete Barton says:


      The tipping point that seems to be coming is dependent on how much cash is being delivered in the UK OK budget.

      How many souls will betray themselves for promises by a bankrupt UK govt?

      2 trillion and rising;mind that figure..that is the UK national debt.

      Ah but Empire 2 will save us all, just believe us, it’s all gonna be OK.

    206. James says:

      Re: HYFUD …People, people, please don’t rise to it! He is obviously on a wind-up mission. Or auditioning for the Edinburgh Comedy Festival? FUD.

    207. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      RE: country/kingdom.

      I’m sure the vast majority of people in the British Isles use country as a term, as opposed to kingdom – specially dan sarf.

      Perhaps Ms Cherry was keeping it simple for those who don’t understand the concept of two kingdoms.

      I feel that whenever a pro-indy MP or MSP or councillor is involved in a TV/radio discussion and someone uses the term “country”, they should be asked to clarify which country they are talking about.

      Similarly, in the HOC, if a speaker mentions “the country”, a point of order should be raised, asking for clarification of which country they mean. After all, there are three countries and a province contained in the UK. Are they speaking about an individual country, or THE UNITED KINGDOM?

    208. cirsium says:

      @republicofscotland, 8.52

      Agree – we need a date. This would give focus to a campaign and the announcement would be the starting-gun for that campaign.

    209. Famous15 says:

      I get frustrated on Twitter as I rarely know what they are talking about. Yes I can guess but why do they not give a summary.

      Secondly “WTF” is not a reasoned reply to anything other than what happened to my coitus.

      I think that Ms.Cherry is aware ,the clue my learned friend is in her being learned!

    210. dakk says:

      Where is he?

      Wheelspinning away in his Rangerover wae his waders on heading for the river Ouze or some such with a bit of luck.

    211. Famous15 says:

      I watched a very interesting discussion on trans issues on Sky News.One huge problem is say anythin outside the agenda of some mysterious trans supporting group purporting to speak for all gender challenged or even gender uncomfortable and you are classed as transphobic. Even professional psychiatrists and psychologists are silenced by fear. Not good.

      I am reminded of the police in the 1970’s employing vicious race relations “experts” in training colleges who silenced any reasonable discussion. Many of these “experts” were later discovered to be groomers for terrorists.

      We must not repeat that. All discussion must be open and argument allowed.

    212. Effijy says:

      It looks like Scotland faired better than England or Wales with these floods.
      It doesn’t look like many Scottish homes were badly affected and according
      To residents this was the first time that they were flooded.

      I suggest the First Minister announces budget this year to install flood protection
      For these homes so that it cannot happen again.

      Then we need to ask Boris why so many English Homes have been flooded 3 times
      During the Tories 10 year term and although they say they have invested in flood defence
      It is obviously not enough nor quickly above.

      Their failure has destroyed families and communities across England.
      They will never be able to sell nor insure these homes and now they wait
      for it all to happen again next week or next year.

      PS I’m sure the EU were handing out mass funding to help those in flood areas.
      Just as well the ones that voted to rid themselves of Johnny Foreigner have invested
      In rubber wellies and a synthetic Prime Minister.

    213. North chiel says:

      cirisium @1032 & republic of Scotland 0852 entirely agree that setting a referendum date will see an upsurge in interest and support from the electorate. Also , if SNP / Yes campaign funding is an issue then with a future date set I would suggest that a similar upsurge in funds would be forthcoming. Certainly if some of these funds helped to counteract the wave of increased unionist propaganda from the Britnat propaganda outlets it would be necessary & well spent .

    214. Dr Jim says:

      Everybody should be heard, but the trouble is 0.02% of the population demand to be heard telling everybody else to shut up or they’re bad

      The Internet can make the world amplified into a dangerously less equal place just the same as TV can

    215. Kangaroo says:

      Meg merrilees @8:41 and others

      I think J Cherry just made an unfortunate slip of the tongue. She meant Kingdoms but inadvertently said Countries.

      This is nit the first time that Ms Cherry gas referenced the Treaty, I have seen her do it in the HoC too. It is the “key” to unlocking the handcuffs of Union.

      The Treaty has only two Kingdoms, Scotland and England, the latter containing both Wales and Ireland at that time.

    216. Sandy says:

      Re polls questions.

      Many are phrased in a manner to receive an opinion as to what might happen, not to be interpreted as what YOU might like to happen.

    217. K1 says:

      Once again I’m obliged to inform those not aware of Simon’s (fuddick) intent on Wings, no need to speculate or exhaust the tiny bit of no interest in what the little diddy is on about, just read this and rest yer weary mind that you need no longer concern yersel wi his…

      Rinse and repeat:

      ’16 September, 2018 at 12:24 am
      For all those who haven’t had the absolute pleasure of ‘debating’ with HYFUD or whatever, he’s already declared ‘why’ he’s here:

      ‘HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:18 pm
      The Tories got a higher voteshare in 2017 across the UK than the SNP got in Scotland at the general election which really says it all.
      I will of course never apologise for having pressing the Unionist case hard, if you do not like that as a diehard Nationalist, tough.

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:24 pm
      I could of course not care less what anybody on this forum thinks, I came here to press the Unionist case hard and take on the Nationalists (and any party which puts National identity first is by definition Nationalist). Notice the brilliant Ruth Davidson by taking a tough hard approach to nationalists has seen her party’s vote surge, she is undoubtedly as tough a Unionist leader as Salmond was for Nationalists

      HYUFD says:
      2 September, 2018 at 5:29 pm
      You will no doubt whinge as ever about Scotland’s woes despite the fact it now has its own Parliament which decides most Scotgish domestic issues and representatives at Westminster too. The Tories have of course halved unemployment from 2010 and reduced the deficit too but that is a different matter however no doubt you will whinge about that too’

      He’s here to ‘destroy’ us ‘Nats’ and if you want a real insight into why it’s a complete waste of time even responding to him…it starts about here on the 19th of August, on ‘The Cereal Offenders’, thread. There is nothing you can say to him as his mind is made up and if you continue to read to the end of that thread…you’ll understand exactly who you are dealing with, it’s nothing but ‘rinse and repeat’, he’s no here to debate:

    218. HYUFD says:

      Jfngw The Tories won a majority of 158 in England at the general election but only 80 across the UK so it would actually benefit them for Scotland to go independent but they still back the UK as we are better together.

      Of course if Scotland did get independence the SNP would swiftly become redundant having achieved its main goal much like the Brexit Party, with a new revived Scottish right

    219. K1 says:

      ‘…with a new revived Scottish right…’

      Now you’re just trolling.

    220. Kangaroo says:

      K1 @12:53

      Yep and that quote is the bait.

    221. Still Positive says:

      Great to have the Wee Ginger Dug back from the USA.

    222. Dr Jim says:

      Herr Boris Johnson Fuhrer and self appointed King of England has told the EU he has no intention of keeping the same rules on trade or workers rights and has demanded the same deal as Canada has or he will “rip the EU to shreds”

      See the Mail the Express and the Sun for the full details of Herr Johnson’s empty threats and bluffs

      Apparently President Macron of France said *Oh ho hoa then Eengland can joost pees off then oh ho hoa* well slightly but not much more French words to that effect

    223. Breeks says:

      I’m sure the Papal 1328 recognition of the Declaration of Arbroath and the lifting of King Robert’s excommunication by Pope John XXII must surely survive as a record in the Vatican archives, but does anyone know where the text can be seen or read?

      It seems like the missing point in the triangle between the Declaration of Arbroath, the 1328 Treaty of Northampton and Edinburgh, and the Pope’s recognition, which to the best of my knowledge has never been disputed, but which I have never seen in literal translation.

    224. HYUFD says:

      Dr Jim What Boris has actually said is that he wants the same trade deal as Canada and South Korea have with the EU with the same rules and obligations on trade and workers rights and no more

    225. Mike d says:

      Jfngw 9.33pm. Sadly too late for wales to make a choice. 650.000 english residents 21% of the pop. They swung the brexit vote in wales 52% to 48%. Welsh people voted remain said professor dorling of oxford university.

    226. Dan says:

      Ooh, good find from one of Rev’s retweets.
      This site shows transfers of leccy power.
      Scotland exporting just under 5GW to England at the moment.

      Here’s the UK grid one again which has more info and the Euro connections if folk want to save them for future reference and checking.

    227. Ottomanboi says:

      Scotland is country few outsiders understand or indeed care about. It has a complex history, more so than its neighbour, and a culture drawing on a variety of ethnic sources which have been used to divide, conquer and subordinate. It has been a petrie dish for testing colonialist strategies employed in the wider imperial project.
      As a guy of MidEast origin I recognize the exploitative, appropriative, mercenary pattern and the cultural hubris of the perpetrators.
      Scotland is important to the Union as territory, its people are not, it was ever so in imperial games of acquisition. Should that territory, however, regain a mind of its own then take care.
      Be that as it may, there are still plenty of opportunities for Britannia to attempt to subvert the liberation project, but at what ultimate cost I wonder, and to whom?

    228. Graeme says:

      HYUFD says:
      17 February, 2020 at 12:43 am

      “Jfngw The Tories won a majority of 158 in England at the general election but only 80 across the UK so it would actually benefit them for Scotland to go independent but they still back the UK as we are better together.”


      No we are not better together so why don’t you enlighten us and tell us what it is about English independence that scares you so much ?

    229. callmedave says:


      Good catch there on the transmission data. 🙂

      Ian Blackford’s argument there on shortbread radio for a parliament committee to look at Boris’ reshuffle and the part that Cummings has played looked a bit weak.

      BBC licence on a shoogly peg sooner than we thought.

    230. Republicofscotland says:

      This might be the catalyst that we need to force Sturgeons hand on holding a indyref.

      The Independent Scotland Party, look set to field list candidates next year.

    231. robertknight says:

      callmedave @ 9:09

      “Ian Blackford’s argument there on shortbread radio for a parliament committee to look at Boris’ reshuffle and the part that Cummings has played looked a bit weak.”

      “Weak” is the default position for Ian “Cowardly Lion” Blackford.

      After his “we will not allow Scotland to be dragged…etc.” he could claim today was Monday and I wouldn’t believe him.

      But so long as coming out with the guff he spouts every week at PMQs keeps him in his three-piece tailored suits then all’s well I guess. Trougher!

    232. Breeks says:

      Scottish Government
      15 Feb
      The Scottish Government Resilience Room has been activated to monitor the impacts of flooding in the Borders.

      Monitor the impact of corruption, collusion and nepotism and you’ll maybe do more good for the local community.

    233. Colin Alexander says:

      Every cloud has a silver lining.

      The Imperial lie repeated by SNiPers is that:

      Indy = the SNP


      The SNP = indy

      The SNP have spent the last five years avoiding talking or doing anything about indy.

      When the indyref can couldnae be kicked doon the road any longer, Sturgeon was forced to admit, she bends the knee to Boris the Bold, her Imperial Master. Any indyref will be on the Empire’s terms, not for the people who gave the mandate. If Boris says No, it won’t happen. If it ever does happen it will be an Imperial referendum. eg As rigged as it’s possible to be.

      The separation between the indy movement and the “pro-indy” devolution SNP has become obvious. So, it’s up to the indy movement to push for indy, to persuade and encourage our friends, colleagues and acquaintances, and push the SNP, despite the SNP’s colonial brakes being on.

      Sturgeon has lost her credibility as the leader of the indy movement. She’s the pro-indy First Minister of the colonial government.

      Who will lead the indy movement now?

    234. mike cassidy says:

      The shape of UK healthcare to come.

      Drug prices in USA are so high

      One private health-insurance company in Utah financially encourages customers with repeat prescriptions to travel to Canada or Mexico to buy the drugs much more cheaply.

      John Oliver in fine form on the American healthcare dilemna.

      From about 6 minutes in

    235. mike cassidy says:

      Breeks 8.21

      The Pope’s Reply to the Declaration Of Arbroath

    236. Ottomanboi says:

      The British state establishment has been given a shot in the arm. It is now rampant, prowling looking for prey. Blackford, easy prey, needs to watch it.

    237. mike cassidy says:

      Occasional reminder that the Trans issue is not going away.

      Just read SNP where it says Labour.

    238. Breeks says:

      mike cassidy says:
      17 February, 2020 at 11:01 am
      Breeks 8.21

      The Pope’s Reply to the Declaration Of Arbroath…

      Thanks Mike. I appreciate that.

    239. Willie says:

      Colin Alexander @10.18.

      It’s not just independence that the SNP has let down. It’s the day job too.

      Under Salmond’s leadership, and with an initial minority government, the SNP did great stuff. Abolished prescription charges, hospital parking, bridge toll, no tuition fees, embarked on a major infrastructure building programme of schools and roads to stimulate employment for tens of thousands, brought privatised hospital services back into the public sector and of course took us to a referendum that we nearly won.

      And now, pray tell of the policies being implemented by the SNP star chamber.. Independence’s? Most certainly not. The Named Person Act? Gender Recognitions? Or what about doing something about the utter corruption and inefficiency that bedevils our local authority sucking the very lifeblood out of it. They’ve done nothing about that as service crumbles. Taken over where Labour let off our SNP is now like New Labour on steroids. Comfortable as Labour once were in their exalted place with the electorate it could all, and indeed will, unless something is done turn to tears.

      I for one a member of more years than I care to remember is heart and soul sick. This is not now a party with vigour, with drive, with vision. It’s a party full of jobsworths getting paid a better than average wage and a view on the next election of seats to a Hollyrood.

      Well if the SNP high command will not change then its time we got rid of them. Sturgeon is an able First Minister but she is no driver for independence. She is surrounded by a small coterie of folks to the exclusion of all the rest. It is not good, it is not healthy and only the members iron discipline has stopped there being a bloodbath.

      Well maybe it’s time others came forward. And there are others. Let the FM go off and get a job in Europe or some of her acolytes a job in business. And let people get on with the drive for independence.

    240. meg merrilees says:

      Re ‘the Treaty of Union’ between two countries/two Kingdoms

      I’m not criticising Ms. Cherry for using country instead of Kingdom. I’m highlighting the fact that most people think it is a Union of 4 Countries as Cameron and May would repeatedly tell us.

      I’ll bet most folk outside this discussion forum don’t think of Scotland or England as being kingdoms any longer – maybe because we don’t have a king just now – but they certainly don’t understand the concept of there only being two signatures on the Treaty and that was the point she was putting across. Many people down south do not understand why Scotland has to be treated as ‘special’ ( ha ha) because they don’t know or have forgotten ( if they were ever told) that the Treaty only had two signatures, therefore one or other signatory party can withdraw/cancel without the permission of the other.

      Agree it would have been better if she had said a ‘Union of two Kingdoms’ but facts are chiels etc and I think the message was got across.

      It’s a point we have to make time and again, louder and louder, especially this year with the Arbroath Declaration so relevant.

    241. iain mhor says:

      @ K1 12:30am

      His mind isn’t made up, which is the principle problem.
      He’s not the only one, there are questions and it’s the avoidance of answering them, or putting them to the proof which defines every narrative.
      In good company though, as both Westminster and the erstwhile Scottish Parliament have sought to avoid them too.
      Anything else is just hurling bees and accepting false narratives – there is no first principle to proceed from. Which is why England, the UK, Scotland (and arguments here) are in a sucking mire.

      First principles are at least principles, HYUFD (and his ilk) evidently have none (or withholds them) As a counter example: Mr Peffers (late contributer to this forum) did have principles and however much one might disagree with his views (or their accuracy) one had to address his first principles before proceeding.

      Call it pseudo-Socratic reasoning perhaps; but if a first principle is the ever topical : ‘people are sovereign’, then we may choose to accept that for debate – we may then enquire ‘In what relevant form does this manifest’? If the response is ‘in the creation of a collective state – we may proceed with ‘who then is the ultimate arbiter of this collective sovereignty, the state or the people’?
      From here we may address whether the current attempt to establish the first principle of ‘sovereignty of people’, is to effect the creation of a collective state (Scotland?) or to affirm that such a state already exists and the people are, or are not, its arbiters.

      The question which follows any affirmation of pre-existence is: ‘What is the form of this existing state’? There’s the rub – the affirmation of pre-existence is taken for granted, There is no dearth of opinions contradicting that position, or we would not have suggestions any vote for independence would be ‘Sevco Scotland’

      I see the wrong questions being asked, a principle foothold has not been established and has been skipped over to land in the morass .
      I speak not for England, but the UK has established a principle that its state was created, not via the sovereignty of a peoples, but in and of itself and of itself it holds all sovereignty. A political and monarchical creation – if not of its asserted divine provenance, certainly of political power.

      If the principle is; that Scotland exists as a collective state, under the sovereignty of its peoples and its form is perhaps of union (or subjugation) with another – we may proceed on that basis. Or perhaps, that it does not exist and its peoples are seeking to create such a nation. ‘Should Scotland be Independent’ is not the correct question of first principle ‘Does Scotland exist’ is.

      It is inconsequential to argue opinion here, individually, whether we believe we have a collective nation and that it does have a representative senate of the peoples sovereignty; for what is that senate’s collective position of first principle – not our individual opinion? I would posit it has none, certainly I feel that it has not been clearly stated or codified.

      The closest was the spoken assertion, that the prorogued Scots Parliament was reconvened and is currently in session. If that is uncontested, or accepted at least as a point of debate – then that is indeed a first principle and we may proceed the argument.
      The Scots Parliament as a continuation, encompasses within it, all the codification to answer the questions ‘Does Scotland exist, who is its sovereign arbiter and what form does Scotland take’ – not least of which, is its competence to refer itself to its people with impunity.

      Yet, how was that assertion of parliamentary reconvention codified? May we look to a document which confirms Scotland’s Parliament was indeed reconvened that day, a collective document of affirmation – surely an historical article on par with any – the correct questions must be asked, as ever.

      That Scotland’s Parliament was not reconvened, that Scotland (and England) do not exist; that the UK is a self created Unitary State and not a Union (albeit with inherently illigical and self-denying legislation) that the peoples of the UK are not sovereign, that Scotland’s Parliament is a devolved executive of the UK State, that a cadre of peoples within it are seeking a seccession and creation of a new Independent state – is indeed a prevailing view.
      A view however seldom directly affirmed or articulated and never to be defended – for its inherent inconsistencies preclude it.

      The churning of the ground between what people may believe, what parliaments may believe and what is actuality, creates the sucking glaur we are all fast in. Ask the correct question, establish the principles – then we may all perhaps, proceed to extricate ourselves and wash clean the filth of centuries – for one outcome, or another.

    242. Dr Jim says:

      @meg merrilees 11:46am

      I’d bet most people don’t know they don’t have a Queen either especially the folk in England, because how is it possible to call a country a democracy and a Monarchy at the same time when everybody really knows that the Queen has no powers over anything, otherwise Oliver Cromwell was a figment of everybody’s imagination

      The Queen is a tourist attraction, a picture postcard of illusion to keep the forelock tuggers comfortable in their minds of a stability of being ruled over by a benevolent deity who’s really nice instead of the truth which is all power rests with the English parliament and by voting a majority political party who between themselves elect a leader, that leader becomes de facto King of England giving that leader total power and control in exactly the same way as would have been the case for a Monarchial system of inherited power

      People think they’re voting for a political party to form a government, but in fact they’re voting for a King acting under the false pretence that the people voted for them when technically they didn’t they voted for representatives who then nominate one of themselves to be the Monarch

      It’s why neither of the big two political parties in England are happy if they don’t have a majority so they invented the myth to the people that they can’t govern effectively if they don’t have that majority to elect themselves a King

      A wonderful deception to have kept up this long on a people

    243. cirsium says:

      @Willie, 11.28

      Good comment. The other big issue not being dealt with in the day job is land reform.

    244. Pete says:

      Dont agree with much you say but you’re bang on the money with this.
      I’ve always wondered about where we are benefitting from the recent tax increases in Scotland for the above around £25k folks.
      Well, I read yesterday that the extra revenue generated is reduced from the Barnett block grant by about 80% thus leaving us barely better off.
      If this is true, it is quite shocking and therefore, what’s the point?
      Can anyone enlighten me further?
      I want facts not propaganda.

    245. Republicofscotland says:

      “And now, pray tell of the policies being implemented by the SNP star chamber.. ”

      Although Sturgeon has let us down on the independence front I can’t quite agree that in other areas there hasn’t been any progressive policies.

      Just of the top of my head I can think of three one is the Baby Box scheme and the another is the twice yearly bonus given to carers, and also the Best Start Grant.

      There are more if you care to look, is it any wonder Corbyn touted them during the GE.

      Lets not get mixed up here, there’s no other party at Holyrood that would implement as many good policies as the SNP, yes they’ve dropped the ball on independence, that aside they’ve been progressive in my opinion.

    246. Effijy says:

      I see Grovelling Gove is acknowledging that food prices in the UK
      will face very significant increases as a result of Brexit.

      The hope Is that the EU is dumb enough to hand out a no tariff deal
      Without any membership fees.

      Yes why don’t you do that Europe or England will hate you lousy foreigners even more.

      It seems that 80% of food stuffs we eat comes from Europe.
      How about a 20% tariff increase and delays leading to shortages due to red tape.

      Gove promised trading would be simpler with Brexit.
      Maybe that one was on the other side of the £350 million per week to the NHS bus?

    247. Breeks says:

      meg merrilees says:
      17 February, 2020 at 11:46 am

      Agree it would have been better if she had said a ‘Union of two Kingdoms’ but facts are chiels etc and I think the message was got across…

      I agree Meg. But what gives me most encouragement is that it shows us where Joanna Cherry’s head is, and that is focussed upon a bilateral treaty between Constitutional Equals.

      I am also encouraged that Joanna Cherry twice used the Scottish Courts and Court of Session to circumvent the Supreme Court, and squarely nail legally binding victories.

      I don’t know if people registered what I was talking about when saying Scottish Sovereignty was red because it comes from the people, while Westminster Sovereignty is white, because it’s origin is Devine. I then speculated on whether Holyrood administered red Sovereignty, white Sovereignty, pink Sovereignty, or raspberry ripple Sovereignty.

      It seems more and more clear that Holyrood is neither red, nor pink, nor even very raspberry ripple. When Westminster’s white Sovereignty says jump, Holyrood dutifully obliges.

      But Joanna Cherry, both in her Court Actions, and her reference to the bilateral Treaty of Union has her feet firmly planted in Scotland’s red Sovereignty, Scots Law, and Scottish Constitutional muscle in all she does. The U.K. government tried to add some white pigment through the Supreme Court, but it had no jurisdiction over Scotland’s red Sovereignty. When Boris Johnson was forced to unprorogue Westminster, his white Westminster Convention of Sovereignty was being overruled by the red Sovereignty of Scotland.

      I also spoke a couple of weeks back about there being three Constitutions at play here; the sub-sovereign constitution of a devolved assembly codified in the Scotland Act and Sewel Convention, the unwritten constitution of the UK Parliament and it’s unwritten “convention” of sovereignty, and the explicit and unambiguously sovereign Constitution of the Scottish Nation.

      Maybe Holyrood is conflicted, because if Holyrood becomes to obstreperous for Westminster, then Westminster can legitimately turn off the taps and deny Holyrood the White Sovereignty and money it operates with, and valued protections and mitigations which Holyrood has put in place might fail. I say Holyrood is ‘maybe’ conflicted, but in truth I see no evidence that it is. It actually seems remarkably sanguine and docile about it’s limited capacities under it’s Scotland Act constitution, and certainly makes very little of Scotland’s National Constitution and Popular Sovereignty of the people. It rare enough occasion, and pretty much lip service when it does occur.

      I think Holyrood currently has an existential dilemma. For as long as Holyrood and the SNP pursues the issue of a referendum with a Section 30 Agreement, then it is acting as a devolved legislature that is a lower house beneath Westminster. That lowly position is simply not compatible with Scotland’s National Constitution, where the Scottish people are Sovereign.

      I am utterly perplexed and demoralised that we are contesting Scotland’s right to self determination using the restricted levers of colonial legislation designed to empower Westminster, when Scotland has much better levers to pull under the Nation’s Constitutional Sovereignty which Westminster repeatedly acknowledges as valid, since time and time again, it cannot overrule the Claim of Right.

      Westminster’s assertion of Parliamentary Sovereignty is a bluff, a subterfuge, a brass neck confidence trick. It cannot actually say it is Sovereign over Scotland, because that isn’t true. Instead it claims to be Sovereign by a mysterious and unwritten “Sovereign Convention” which is a consensual agreement between equals. Westminster is only ‘sovereign’ for as long as we Scots agree to it.

      That is why Brexit was so important, because it exposed the mysterious and unwritten “Sovereign Convention” which was meant to be a consensual agreement between equals as a total lie, and Brexit as an unconstitutional act of Colonial subjugation.

      The United Kingdom Government only survives by bluster and established Convention, but in Brexit, it even broke the rules of its own “Convention” of Sovereignty. It claimed to be sovereign without Scotland’s consensus, and that was a step too far. The UK’s Parliamentary Sovereignty by Convention has been smashed to pieces by Westminster’s colonial misadventure. IF Scotland’s weak and supine “Government” had had an ounce of backbone and Constitutional acumen, the Union would now be dead and buried, and Scotland would be a sovereign independent nation in Europe.

      I have no time for the SNP’s endless drivel about democracy. They have played Brexit and Scottish Independence like 3rd rate amateurs. The only live wire the SNP has in it’s arsenal is Joanna Cherry, with both feet planted in Scottish Sovereignty and twice now having put Westminster in its place. Ms Cherry has done more to reign in Westminster than the the rest of the SNP combined, and she’s under attack for deselection from within??? SNP, just go and have a lie down in a darkened room. Don’t come out until we tell you to.

      We NEED Joanna Cherry taking Scotland’s Red Constitutional Sovereignty to an International Constitutional Court at the UN and Council of Europe, where Scotland denounces the colonial aggression of Westminster, not just breaching its own mythical convention and thereby flouting the Treaty of Union, but subjugating the will of a sovereign Nation, contrary to International Law.

      If Joanna Cherry won’t step up, then we need somebody else who will, but I have faith in Joanna. The time for talking is short. We need action.

    248. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Breeks –

      Joanna Cherry is being mentioned more and more frequently, not only because of her approach to the constitutional ‘difficulties’ you talk about, but for not backing down to the woke brigade.

      The wokesters seem to have reached a threshold of sorts with the ‘red circle’ targetting of Joan mcAlpine – some still have the symbols in their Twitter headers, others never adopted it (e.g. Mhairi Hunter) and others displayed it only for a few days (e.g. Cameron Arhibald).

      Joanna may be well positioned to draw support from all across the Yes movement, for very different reasons.

    249. kapelmeister says:

      Johnson and Cummings are playing one of the old, old tricks. Hire someone so demonstrably obnoxious – this Sabisky fellow – and then you can dismiss him and appear moderate.

    250. bookie from hell says:

      neil oliver piece in the sunday times goes on about the bridge AGAIN

      says the buck stops with voters – why do they still vote SNP

      it’s like he’s having a nervous breakdown

    251. jfngw says:

      If we had an annual Great Scottish Arseholes award I could confidently predict Neil Oliver would always be one of the nominees. I also suspect the fire risk would also be prominent, the gallus besom.

    252. kapelmeister says:

      Neil Oliver hasn’t realised that the Scottish cringe is history.

    253. Republicofscotland says:

      As Katie Forbes becomes Finance secretary, Derek Mackay, her disgraced predecessor might have left a parting shot at Westminster.

      The Scottish government are to continue with Mackays strategy of debunking the outrageous unionist GERS figures touted annually and lauded by the media and opponents of Scottish independence.

      Granted its not the move on the indy front that we desperately need, but at least its a positive step.

    254. Dr Jim says:

      Bank of Scotland notice inside my branch in Bishopbriggs reads *we only dispense English notes at this position*
      So I checked the outside auoteller and got Clydesdale Banknotes, weird?

      I didn’t ask why in case the place was full of Yoons who might want to kill me for treason sedition my inferior eugenics or just mental Yoonery

    255. Dan says:

      That was the safe play Dr Jim.
      We don’t want to you being rounded up and taken on a “holiday”.

    256. Almond Chutney says:

      At the end of the day it’s the same currency (GBP), which you can spend north or south of berwick-upon-tweed.

      The real question is post-indy currency, you won’t be needing to worry about what type of GBP you make sure you only have copies of for transactions. Then again, Ireland managed to secure their own and eventually join the Euro, so, not impossible.

    257. jfngw says:

      What’s the difference between 1930’s facists and modern day BritNats. Taste, I don’t ever remember seeing even the most ardent Nazi dressed in a Swastica suite.

      People seem surprised the PM seems to be a eugenics supporter, not sure how, have you ever seen his father interviewed. They see themselves as the master race, believing their own intellect is justification for their ardent xenophobia, racism and cruelty. They want to see those with less intelligence than B.Johnson wiped from the earth, that of course would result in human extinction (possibly only survivors Carlaw & Wells, the new Adam & Eve left to rebuild mankind).

    258. jfngw says:

      Suit obviously, unless it’s a three piece.

    259. ben madigan says:

      @Effijy who mentioned flooding in Scotland and England.

      With regards to the UK applying for EU funding to mitigate 2016 winter flood damage, AFAIK it did not apply, as it was in negotiations to determine its position on the Brexit Referendum (Stay or leave the EU) later that year. Now of course as a former member, it can’t apply.

      Here’s some general info about protecting your property from flooding. It was written for winter floods in Ireland 2016 but the same principles apply to Scotland.I hope people find them useful and bear them in mind when they are re-doing/rennovating their houses, after floods or not.

    260. Dan says:

      Re. Eugenics. I can’t get my heid around the idea that the Fat Gammon is really considered to be the pinnacle of the human form at this point in the evolution of our species.

      If ze Fat Gammon race prevail the current sporting world records held by “mongrels” will never be beaten.
      The future new world of fat gammon records:

      100m SprintWaddle – 47 seconds
      LongShortjump – 3ft 3inches (imperial measurements obzs)
      The Marathon event is now won by the FG that can eat the most Snickers, as running 1 mile, nevermind 26, is a physical impossibility.

    261. Dan says:

      From The Skotia twitter feed.

      Our footage of yesterday’s @JoannacCherry QC MP lecture: Scotland’s Future – an independent nation in Europe?

    262. twathater says:

      @ Liz g sorry for my late reply , I am extremely happy that a indy list supporting party was discussed at the AUOB gathering , I feel that NOW would be a time to expose this GREAT news and to start the explanations and breakdowns to convince indy voters of the ENORMOUS benefits that can be accrued by having a very valid opporchancity to rid our SP of the very many arse warming parasites and to increase indy supporting parties

      I agree with most of the praise towards Joanna Cherry but unfortunately she like many of the SNP reps still fail to DESTROY the currency myth , it INFURIATES me and many others that this LIE is allowed to be dragged out time and time again to defeat and confuse them

      When this issue is raised they should go on the ATTACK and say ( how dare you threaten to attempt to block a shareholder of the bank of england from utilising the services we contribute to ) , the bank that was set up in 1694 by Scotsman William Patterson and is the bank for the the whole uk and when we do leave we will be utilising our share of the banks assets

    263. Golfnut says:

      @ Almond Chutney.
      We already have our own currency, the only question that needs answering is just how far Westminster is willing to crawl up Scotland’s arse to secure even a temporary pegging to prevent sterling’s collapse.

    264. gus1940 says:

      WANTED FOR MURDER – The CPS and the Tabloid Press.

    265. mike cassidy says:

      Re Bank Of England

      Very easy to produce the gammon effect

      Just tell the English the Bank has never belonged to England.

      A private company until it was nationalised in 1946

    266. Golfnut says:

      @ Dan.

      You probably already know this.
      Churchill is Johnson’s hero, Churchill was an advocate of the Eugenics principal as were many of America’s most prestigious institutions. These same institutions complained bitterly that funding a located for research went to Germany and not them, the rest his history. After WW11 many of its champions quietly dropped their support, even going so far as to erase any records that were potentially embarrassing.

    267. meg merrilees says:


      I agree – England’s vote taking Scotland out of the EU against her will is a total breach of the Treaty. ( despite the agreement for customs barriers between N.Ireland and the rest of the UK also being a breach of the Union – clause 4 – I think) and they justify it by using the result of the 2014 Independence ref as an expression of our wish to remain part of the UK.

      BUT it is a wish to remain part of the UK as agreed under the terms of the 1707 Treaty. This has not been suspended or nullified so it is still applicable. That means, as has been proven, that the Court of Session is allowed to pass judgement under Scots Law which is not inferior
      to anything in England as Scots Law is protected by the Treaty.

      Surely, if Scots Law reckons the Treaty has been breached then that is that – game’s a bogey, UK ceases to exist.

      Otherwise we are just a colony of England – and I believe that Ms. Cherry said as much on QT at another point in the broadcast.

      The sad fact is that hundreds of thousands of our fellow Scots haven’t clocked that yet!!!

    268. kapelmeister says:


      Yes, among the 1920s/1930s eugenics enthusiasts were Sidney & Beatrice Webb. The husband and wife team who were leading lights of the Labour Party and owners of the New Statesman.

    269. mike cassidy says:

      Churchill and Eugenics

      Horatio Donkin sounds like one of the good guys.

    270. Dorothy Devine says:

      re Mr Oliver , I wonder what effect his latest outburst will have on NTS membership this time.

    271. Liz g says:

      Twathater @ 5.28
      No worries Twathater 🙂
      There’s an article in the National about it today!
      As I understand it the “Scottish Independence Party” are waiting for confirmation from the Electoral Commission that they have been approved as an official political party.
      Once that is in the bag then they can go on to making any announcement and launch.
      Fingers crossed it work’s,I think we’re at the stage where doing nothing is no longer an option …..
      I’m so looking forward to getting Murdo and his fellow British Nationalist seat warmers out of Holyrood and people from the Yes movement in… 🙂

    272. Dr Jim says:

      I’m surprised that nobody seems to have noticed that Dominic Cummings has the power to hire or fire anybody he likes or dislikes, and Herr Cummings dislikes quite a lot of folk and they all tend to be folk who dislike him whether they’re good at their jobs or not

      I can’t imagine why the media in the so called UK don’t make a bigger deal out of reporting that kind of power to the public who didn’t elect this man into any position whatsoever yet he’s running the entire UK

      So much for the Brexit fascists complaining about unelected folk in the EU, seems it’s one rule for them and all the rest of the rules as well

      Dominic Cummings has exceedingly more power than any unelected private individual and even more than actual elected MPs, I’m trying to recall anybody in history with zero responsibility for a government who’s running the government

    273. Rm says:

      The Scottish Government have to start targeting European Politicians to speak up for Scotland to end the Union between the Countries Scotland and England, it’s the 21st century times have changed the English want to go right while Scotland wants to go left, end of relationship, divorce, fineto, end of, araberderchi, good byee, good riddance.

    274. Dorothy Devine says:

      I have just been reminded of Mr Oliver’s description of the Highland Clearances ’emigration’ – offensive or what?

    275. Joe says:


      The trouble is if Scotland goes left and England goes right is that it will create an overwhelming draw of capital and skills south of the border. Then we start looking like an Eastern bloc shithole except we’ll have to cover our women up so as not to offend the ‘new scots’ that will pile in:)

    276. Joe says:

      Sorry folks but left wing politics will end a newly independent Scotland very quickly. Id say the left wing has already fkd our near term chances of indy with what powers they do have with the (predictable) bullshit cycle of increasingly radical (and unhinged) ideas. Practicality wins. Defunct and dangerous ideology doesnt.

    277. Bill Hume. says:

      Dear Joe, you are an idiot….that is all.

    278. Smallaxe says:

      ‘we’ll have to cover our women up’

      I don’t own any women, Joe!

      Do you?

    279. Breeks says:

      meg merrilees says:
      17 February, 2020 at 6:04 pm

      ….Surely, if Scots Law reckons the Treaty has been breached then that is that – game’s a bogey, UK ceases to exist.

      That’s the way I see it Meg, but there are three stages to it; if the Treaty is breached, it ceases to exist, but that isn’t the end of it. There would have to be International Recognition for the new Constitutional arrangements, and thirdly, there is the possibility of pro Union Scots refusing to accept Scottish Independence and working to overthrow it.

      That is why I get irate about the squandered opportunity of Brexit, because Scotland didn’t have to terminate the Union, just cite Constitutional Sovereignty and Scotland’s remain majority as a Scottish Backstop and effective veto on Brexit, and compelling the Westminster Government to make a choice between going a head with Brexit, or keeping the Union together.

      Whether Westminster acquiesced to respecting Scottish Sovereignty and abandoning Brexit, or whether it opted to abandon the UK to complete an English Brexit, I do not believe the 1707 Union could have survived, and it’s demise would be attributed to Westminster’s gross misadventure, which in turn would have ameliorated any Scottish resentment about the demise of the Union.

      Nevermind the contrived rhetoric about 2014 being a once in a generation opportunity, Brexit was a one off golden ticket for Scotland to get out of the Union with the prospect of unionist resentment largely diffused. It was right there for the taking, and we blew it.

    280. Pete says:

      Totally agree.
      Most of the posters on here are of the Corbynite tendency and have no idea as to how free market economies work.
      Tax the aspirational till the pips squeak.
      They don’t seem to realise that you can’t get benefits without wealth being created and those that do produce wealth need to be encouraged, not penalised.
      Can’t be sure but I understand that a fair chunk of the extra tax levied here in Scotland is clawed back under the Barnett rules. So why do it?

    281. Dorothy Devine says:

      Smallaxe , a wave to you and Sybil!

    282. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      “Most of the posters on here are of the Corbynite tendency and have no idea as to how free market economies work”

      That’s the biggest flask o’ hough I’ve read on WOS in a long time!

      You obviously have no inkling, knowledge or understanding of the diversity of our YES movement.

      Try again…

    283. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Dorothy.

      Sybil sends her love, as do I.

    284. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Smallaxe!

      Good to see you active!

    285. meg merrilees says:

      Brexit still is a one off Golden Ticket because by an ever-narrowing margin, we haven’t completely left yet and there is the old chestnut of an argument from the don’t knows that – ‘until we know what the deal will be how can we vote against it’.

      You know, and I know that the deal will not favour Scotland but they haven’t admitted that yet and haven’t accepted that they might have been wrong all along.

      The tide is slowly changing in our favour but the escape window is closing.

      Nicola is playing a dangerous game of the highest possible stakes if she waits till next year but likewise if she goes too soon and Boris decides to extend negotiations, then she could be stymied. However, after December 31st Boris ( sorry Cummings) will be unstoppable and they could try to overthrow Holyrood.

      We need to have the true Parliament of Scotland waiting in the wings to take over at midnight on December 31st to protest and uphold the choice of the people of Scotland who voted to Remain.
      The Court of Session may well take the view, as it did with the Prorogation of WM, that it cannot legislate as and until the ‘crime is committed’ i.e. until 00.01am on January 1st 2021 at which point it can declare the Treaty null and void and Scotland will resume its rightful place as an independent, Sovereign nation. ( that would be some Hogmanay announcement)
      Whether we want to rejoin the EU can be our first decision – that’s if the EU survives the next year…

      I’m minded of Montrose’s maxim:
      ‘He either fears his fates too much or his desserts are small,
      who will not put it to the touch to win or lose it all’

      I think that is where we are heading.

    286. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Brian.

      Some peoples comments have a tendency to make me active!

      Keep fighting the good fight, my friend.


    287. manandboy says:

      Spot the change of language in the BBC’s monthly weather outlook.

      England’s propaganda war becoming all encompassing.

      “There will be the risk of snow on high ground in the north of the UK, …”

      “The rest of next week looks changeable. Atlantic weather systems are likely to affect the country, but there are some indications that the south of the UK might be a little drier and calmer than it has been.”

      However, it should be less wet and less windy for the UK as a whole.

      “There will still be some rain, this mainly over the north of the country where it may become windy at times. The south of the country should become drier and calmer, ..”

      “Just the north of the UK, mainly Scotland but perhaps Northern Ireland …”

    288. twathater says:

      @ Liz g 6.58pm Yes Liz and the sooner the betterer

      I watched in d car Gordon Ross earlier and he said that there has been an application submitted to SEPA by the MOD for permission to set up a waste dump to dispose of NUCLEAR waste from Faslane and ALL the nuclear subs , the proposed site is apparently around Coulport at Loch Long , but it disnae really matter it’s only SCOTLAND
      Also apparently the SG know nothing about the application and have not been consulted Scotland the dumping ground for the UK (england ) imperial forces

    289. Liz g says:

      Well said Smallaxe….And…
      Hi great to see you post,hope are keeping well.
      Much love to you and Mrs Smallaxe.
      Tell her I was asking fur her XXX

    290. callmedave says:

      Andrew Sabisky: No 10 adviser resigns over alleged race comments

    291. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Liz.

      I woke up this morning (that’s always a bonus)

      Peace and Love to you and yours from Mrs S and I.

    292. Golfnut says:

      @ BDTT.

      I think Joe and Pete are the same idiot.

    293. meg merrilees says:

      Good to see you back online Smallaxe – here’s to you and yours.

      Lang may yir lum reek!

    294. Pete Barton says:

      Laugh of my day goes to Golf nut for his last comment pmsl

    295. Graf Midgehunter says:

      For me the make or break moment was the 31 Jan, 23.00 hrs.

      That was the moment WM knowingly broke the ToU. and a demonstration of what Scottish sovereignty means to them. They dared NS/SNP/SG to react and the Scots mouse hardly squealed.

      I don’t particularly want a ref. because the chance of manipulation by WM is much too big, anyone who puts any faith in postal votes etc. is more than slightly loony.

      The question is quite simple, “Are we sovereign or not”.

      We say we are, but we don’t do anything to demonstrate it.

      If we are, then we don’t take any shit from the clowns in WM.

      700 years Dec.oAbr.coming up soon, the SNP ought to be screaming this out to the population. Education, what is it and why does it matter now.

      The sound of silence”

    296. Smallaxe says:

      Hi, Meg.

      Thank’s, I usually stick to lurking these days but I just couldn’t let that one lie.

      Hopefully, we’ll get out of the doldrums (and the union) soon.

      Peace and love to you and yours.

    297. terence callachan says:


      You are absolutely correct
      But you know what ?
      So many Scottish independence supporters aid them by always saying british
      when they should actually be saying English
      Weegingerdug is classic
      Never says it’s england that is responsible for brexit or
      It’s england responsible for voting in a pm like Boris J

      He always says british this British that

      It’s about time Scottish independence started calling it what it is
      It’s an English problem
      The number of britnats in Scotland or wales or NI is tiny compared to England

      Scotland refused S30
      Treated badly by Westminster
      Ignored about brexit
      Etc etc etc

      It’s england doing it
      Not wales or NI or Scottish people we already know a majority of Scottish people support Scottish independence

      What’s so frightening about them saying ENGLAND or ENGLISH it’s as if these are forbidden words so they hide behind Britain or British

    298. Pete Barton says:

      Jackson Carlost has been instructed by his UK string pullers
      to change direction;prior to that change of attack it was SNP get on with the day job, stop obsessing about IR2.

      Now, as figures obviously suggest Yes is over 50%, let’s convince them that the SNP, and by association the Yes movement are in fact a bunch of deviants.


      Morally ..what was it..?


      Sent to him by his state handlers.

      Of that I have no doubts.

      So, watch this space, the new narrative is ‘Invasion of the body snatchers’- go to sleep, you’ll wake up mindless.

      I smell Cummings…

    299. Pete Barton says:

      And did the sun hold back their story till the finance secretary was due a speech?

      Remember the game ‘Kerplonk’?

      Did it not have loads of sticks, which, if you timed it right the whole thing fell through?

    300. Old Pete says:

      Agree 100% with you Terence Scotland and all the folk who live her are effectively under the yoke of a right wing English Tory government. It was voted in by the English and for the benefit of the English.
      Sadly 25% of our electorate in Scotland are desperate to be part of the Tory English governed “country” and in the shires nearest to England its probably nearer 40%.
      Wales as a conquered nation is more or less considered part of England by the English. Scotland is more or less considered an English possession by large numbers of English people and if we don’t get free from them soon then they will achieve it.

    301. Dr Jim says:

      Scotland is a country the English think they own like the Falklands or the Chagos Islands, places they’ve never been and likely most will never go but if reminded they’ll jump into immediate Imperial mode and claim ownership of

      27 countries of the EU believe England and the English to be thick or why would they have voted for something they don’t understand, so why is it if Scotland says the same we’re called anti English when it’s England who’s anti everybody else

      Even the BBC showed a clip of the Bexit day celebrations in England doing a vox pop with two women who claimed “well laws and that* the interviewer asked which laws and they hadn’t a scooby what they were talking about

      I’ll just be content to be one of the eugenically inferior Scottish vermin infesting the North of England’s territory that the English can’t live without to stand on their own feet, what’s up with that anyway, why are the English so afraid to be an Independent country

    302. mike cassidy says:

      You would think that an 80+ majority would keep them happy.

      Tories bow to the irresistible march of woke

    303. North chiel says:

      “Meg Merrilles @0604 pm “ As you highlight ( along with other consistent posters) the most recent breaches of The Treaty of Union 1707, it is becoming clearer now by the day that “ The sovereignty of The People of Scotland “ issue is coming centre stage in our quest for Independence. The “ devolved” Holyrood Parliament ( set by Westminster as subservient under recent Westminster legislation) cannot surely be tolerated under the 1707 Treaty UNLESS an EQUIVALENT English Parliament was simoultaneously established. (Albeit it is crystal clear now to “ every man and his Scottie dog” that Westminster is now the Defacto English Parliament). Notwithstanding EVEL etc. and the “ defacto” nature of Westminster, how can there be A “ devolved “ Scottish Parliament under the Union treaty, WITHOUT an equivalent “devolved” English Parliament ?? . Hence this glaring lack of equivalence must surely be a CLEAR breach of the 1707 treaty.
      As others have mentioned recently , Joanne Cherry Q. C. Would appear to be beginning to “ Champion” the Scottish Sovereignty issue and I feel that this issue will take centre stage over the coming months . However, I hope that my points above highlights the subservient and lack of equivalence issue in relation to Holyrood/ Westminster to better understand the constraints ?on our FM & Holyrood Government, and consequently it is probably our Westminster Scottish leadership who now have to “ take the lead “ as regards our Scottish Sovereignty in relation to Clear Breaches of The treaty of Union 1707. Over to JC & IB??.

    304. Sandy says:

      Graf Midgehunter @ 10.48pm.

      Treaty of Arbroath 6th April 1320.
      The everlasting problem is the media. 99.9% of the press are anti-Scottish. Forget about the BBBC & ITV. In respect of the ToA, no doubt there will be a somewhat passing reference to it. Activists must, at every opportunity, raise this issue at every conversation.
      Here’s hoping the Party has the intention of a flier to every home, even business failure, Carlaw.

    305. iain mhor says:

      @Breeks 8:59pm

      There is of course the question of what constitutes a breach of ‘the Treaty’ in toto – as articles of the ‘Treaty’ have been breached previously. Death by a thousand cuts?
      Whether the failure to contest such ‘breaches’ at the time, is to be considered acquiescence, or whether these historical breaches may be revisited – in the manner of plod ‘throwing the book’.

      I must assume (though hate to project) that your first principle here is that the ‘Treaty’ is a live article, then may we consider: Whither the Crown?
      For if we take also, the principles that the ‘Crown in Parliament’ as a representation of the Union of Crowns; that the Crown in Queen Anne brokered the Treaty personally (at least her advisors did on her instruction – not the Parliaments of the respective Kingdoms, who merely ratified the Treaty) then either the Commons of the Parliament of GB etc. breached the Treaty of the Crown – or The Crown as the ‘Crown in Parliament’ breached – or at least failed to uphold – the articles of her own Treaty (The Union of Crowns currently resides with Elizabeth)

      I am making a poor fist of making my point (it’s very late) Perhaps I should just partially quote Queen Anne at the first sitting of the Parliament of GB etc :

      ‘There are several matters expressly made liable by the Articles of the Union, to the consideration of the Parliament of Great Britain, which, together with such others, as may reasonably produce those advantages, that, with due care, must certainly arise from that Treaty, I earnestly recommend to your serious Consideration…

      On my Part nothing shall be wanting to procure to my People all the blessings which can follow from this happy circumstance of my Reign, and to extinguish by all proper means the least occasions of jealousy, that either the civil or religious rights of any part of this my United Kingdom can suffer by the consequences of this Union.…”

      Well, join the dots I suppose, or I’ll be into screeds of boring constitutional arguments… again.

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