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Wings Over Scotland

The unpayable ransom

Posted on July 24, 2015 by

Alert readers may have noticed something of a glut of articles in the press recently by right-wing commentators angrily challenging the SNP to prove its left-wing credentials if and when the new Scotland Bill ever becomes law and grants Holyrood more powers over taxation, some minor aspects of welfare and – of course – road signs.

The zenith of the phenomenon must surely be today’s eye-rubbingly bizarre Scotsman story in which the Scottish Tories urge the SNP to increase tax in order to reverse, er, Tory cuts. But there’s method behind the seeming madness.


The baton is picked up by former Scotsman hack Kenny Farquharson in the Times, who pens a harrowing account of his poverty-stricken childhood in Dundee which quickly morphs into a demand for the SNP to hike taxes to fight deprivation.


There are some curious errors and oversights in the piece. Nobody yet has a clue how “the housing element of Universal Credit” can possibly be devolved, and considerable doubt remains over whether Scottish ministers will really be able to top up existing benefits or create new ones. Just weeks ago the UK government blocked that exact measure in the Scotland Bill.

(It’s a weird point for Farquharson to raise anyway, since the Scottish Government has of course already used its existing powers to effectively scrap the bedroom tax.)


The piece goes on to make some dramatic suggestions:


Tax credits are already so complicated that almost nobody (including HMRC) really understands them. Trying to somehow jerry-build them into the Scottish tax system would be a task of such jaw-dropping difficulty, and open such a vast can of worms in terms of people moving across the border, that it would be criminally irresponsible (a) for any Scottish minister to attempt it, and (b) any UK minister to allow it.

But rather than getting bogged down in the detail, it’s perhaps worth considering the bigger picture. The principle being advocated is that however savage the Tory spending cuts handed down from Westminster, the Scottish Government should just keep ramping up taxes to mitigate them.

Clearly, the net result of that would be a massive cash drain from Scotland to London – Scots would be paying more tax in and getting less back. It’s effectively the ending of the Barnett Formula by stealth means, and it would have no end, because the UK government can always turn the screw tighter.

(Remember, the recent Budget gave Iain Duncan Smith the power to reduce the benefit cap further at any time on a whim, without even consulting Parliament.)

But there’s another aspect of the idea that the Tories will love. A Scottish Government constantly increasing taxes above those in the rest of the UK to pay for welfare would quickly find itself highly unpopular. And which party loves to stand on a tax-cutting, anti-welfare platform? Oh, there’s a coincidence.

This site has been pointing out for a long time that the Unionist parties’ devolution proposals were a trap designed to rob Scotland of money and simultaneously discredit the SNP. And because the Tories and their media allies aren’t stupid, they’ve designed it as an attack from the left, in the name of the poor.

This site has warned repeatedly since 2013 that Scotland was being set up for heavy financial punishment if it voted No. The means of that punishment are slowly but clearly taking shape, and the tone of how it will be reported in the media has been set. All that remains now is to wait for the axe to fall.

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    232 to “The unpayable ransom”

    1. Kevin McDonald says:

      How depressing.

      So whats the answer or is it simply a case of too late to avoid this trap?

    2. Kevin McDonald says:

      My guess is we actually need Labour to get its s**t together to fight these devastating cuts in the first place.

    3. Rmac says:

      So not really a huge surprise then, its a pity that those who had cold feet on 18th September last year can’t/couldn’t/wouldn’t see this happening now as Tory vindictiveness is always predictable.

      One thing is for sure is that there is no point in looking for support from either Labour or the LibDems in shouting loudly about this and attempting to mitigate its effects.

    4. beachthistle says:

      The real bigger picture here is that Kenny F is (according to a former colleague of his) a Tory.

      And the Scotsman would, if it financially could, be a Tory paper(again).

      Mendacious Scottish Tory hacks are setting up a vicious Westminster Tory trap.

    5. Calum Craig says:

      It is true that they are up to no good. However, the Scottish people (well 45% of us anyway) are not idiots and can see exactly what they are up to. Whether that is enough is another thing altogether…

    6. Murray McCallum says:

      Spot on.

      All the Unioinist parties will peddle the same argument; “raise taxes – you have powers”. They really should merge.

      It’s spending choices within your sovereign fiscal income (topped up by borrowing) that matters and Scotland simply does not have full control over any.

      People who voted “No” in the referendum saw Tory cuts as a cost worth paying. The majority of these people will simply argue that it would have been *even* worse in an independent Scotland.

      However, it’s the 10-15% minority that we need to re-consider their position and the increasing prospect of a Tory governemnt throughout the 2020s will hopefully aid their focus!

    7. auldmack says:

      Looks like Kenny Farquharson’s memory needs a reboot as he is not old enough to remember what a poverty-stricken childhood in Dundee was like, bad show old son try again don’t try and re-write history, there still a number of us left who did have that experience.

    8. Johnny says:

      Notice K Farq writing as if all welfare powers have been devolved. Lying prat.

    9. Johnny says:

      Kevin McDonald,

      The answer is for the SNP to explain to people, sharpish, what the tactic is, how the blessed unionists don’t care who they screw over to make their point, and get us the hell out of the union.

    10. Doug Daniel says:

      Kevin – the answer is we cross our fingers and hope that Nicola, John Swinney and co have something genius up their sleeves.

      Either that, or if it all goes tits up, we hope that this finally drives the point home to the folk who erred on the side of caution last year that you can’t have “the best of both worlds” at all – we either accept Westminster’s sovereignty over us, and allow them to continue making decisions for us; or we grow a pair and do things by ourselves.

      Either way, the one thing you can be sure of is Scottish Labour blaming the SNP at every turn for decisions forced upon them by the Tories.

      To be honest, I can see independence only coming along once the electorate have turned on the SNP, returned to Labour, only to find that they make an even worse job of it, and it *finally* dawning on folk that we’re up the swanny regardless of which party is in power at Holyrood…

    11. Macart says:

      Let’s see how better together we feel after the axe drops.

      As for the gentleman’s advice in the press? Two simple solutions come to mind 1. The Conservatives could always backtrack on their austerity measures, then no one would have to offset or mitigate anything. 2. Scotland chooses to become independent at the very next opportunity and begins the process of rebuilding our economy and society.

      Going back to the first point however. Let’s take a look at that scenario of offsetting or mitigating. Basically these gentlemen of the press are stating that we should protect ourselves from the economic decisions of our own central government, yes?

      Are they, the meeja and indeed a lone and clearly confused Tory, admitting that Westminster government is bad for the people? That we need protecting from it? Weren’t we meant to be better together by this point? I’m sure there was a statement or some such to this effect running around last year. Safer, stronger, more secure…, yet now apparently, its for a devolved administration with a limited and reducing budget and only limited access to economic levers of any kind to right the wrongs of the central state legislature.

      They are having a laugh, yes?

    12. Andrew Haddow says:

      No problem. Big unavoidable/unevadable tax rises on the upper middle classes, for example on land. Call it the Union Tax.

    13. Alastair says:

      The whole thing is a con. How stupid do they think we are.
      The SNP Govermnent’s response has to be,fine encourage us to mitigate these policies but we will also request the powers for pro rata non payment of all the other policies we don’t want. Trident, billions being poured onto London, House of Lords etc…
      The whole thing is a stupit insult.

    14. Derek Henry says:

      Of course it was a trap.

      They are going to do to us what the European central bank has done to Greece.

      We have to get out of this currency slavery as soon as possible.

      It is imperrative we get our own central bank issuing our own currency with a floating exchange rate as soon as possible.

      At the moment we operate like a gold standard. We have to get out of that situation very quickly.

      We have to be able to operate our own budget deficits by creating currency out of nothing from nothing. The size of defcit an independent Scotland would run is the size that supports full employment. End of story.

      Everything will take of itself after that.

      What going to happen now in our gold standard set up. Is the Bank of England know what our tax take is. So all they have to do is what the ECB did with Greece.

      All they need to do is create less currency than we raise in taxes then we are in big trouble and there is nothing we can do about it. They can push all of us into debt at a stroke of a button at the Bank Of England.

      A simple example helps reinforce these points. Suppose the economy is populated by two people, one being government and the other deemed to be the private (non-government) sector. If the government runs a balanced budget (spends 100 pounds and taxes 100 pounds) then private accumulation of fiat currency (savings) is zero in that period and the private budget is also balanced.

      Say the government spends 120 and taxes remain at 100, then private saving is 20 pounds which can accumulate as financial assets. The corresponding 20 pounds notes have been issued by the government to cover its additional expenses. The government may decide to issue an interest-bearing bond to encourage saving but operationally it does not have to do this to finance its deficit. The government deficit of 20 is exactly the private savings of 20.

      Now if the government continued in this vein, accumulated private savings would equal the cumulative budget deficits. However, should government decide to run a surplus (say spend 80 and tax 100) then the private sector would owe the government a net tax payment of 20 pounds and would need to sell something back, use savings or borrow to get the needed funds.

      They are going to try and force budget Surpluses onto us like the ECB did with Greece. Which are economic suicide that will destroy this country like it did with Greece.

      What is going to happen is a financial war between the Bank Of England and Scotland. Which the BOE will win easily as they’ll just reduce our currency supply and there is not one thing we can do about it.

      We have to get out of this now before it’s too late. We have to declare we will set up our own central bank and issue our own currency. And we need to do it yesterday.

      If they force us to run budget surpluses then we are finished and be asset stripped within an inch of our lives.

    15. HandandShrimp says:

      It has not passed my notice that one day someone can be playing the “SNP Tartan Tories are not left wing they have never ever, ever done anything progressive” card and the next day the same paper or even writer can foam at the mouth at communist SNP seeking Mugabe style land grab on the rich.

      They are fooling no one (not even themselves). The electorate have opted for the SNP because they can see that they do care.

      A particular favourite of mine is that tuition fees is a Tory give away and proves that the SNP are not progressive. This ignores the fact the Tories trebled fees and the most left wing Labour leader candidate in a generation has apologised for tuition fees.

    16. call me dave says:

      I posted the hootsman page on the other thread earlier as it made me angry.

      Disgraceful situation with the SG being ‘challenged’ to stump up to mitigate the damage done by WM, then they have the cheek to be asked by a Tory “What are you going to do about it”?

      Saw Mundell being ‘greeted’ by protesters as he tried to sneak away after opening a new food bank. Good for them!


    17. Brian Powell says:

      If things are going to get tough anyway, there is Independence.

    18. Derek Henry says:

      @ Andrew Haddow

      Jesus Christ how many times taxes do not fund anything in the same way NI contribuitions don’t fund anything.

      The Bank Of England have told you 23 times they don’t.

      HM Treasury have told they don’t.

      Anybody who believes they do are just fiscal conservatives who play straight into the hands of the neoliberals. You are just helping them.

      So the bottom line is this ………

      We can’t create £22 billion of currency that is created out of nothing from nothing to give to the NHS. When our debt to GDP ratio is 90% of GDP.


      We could give £50 trillion of currency that was created out of nothing from nothing to the NHS, Social housing, pensions, welfare state, schools, universities etc etc etc.

      In 1945 when our debt to GDP ratio was 245% of GDP.

      And you can’t see how you are being lied to. Wake up !


      And don’t say we raised taxes later to pay for it.

      We’ve only ran 3 tiny surplses in the last 100 years.

      So when did that happen ?

      So how did we do it ?

      How did we pay down our debt from 245% of GDP in 1945 to 20% of GDP in 1990 ?

      If we didn’t run any surpluses ?

      We ran CONTINUOUS budget deficits for 90 years.

      If you can answer that you will be getting closer to the truth.

    19. caz-m says:

      So, Scotland has to pay higher taxes than the rest of the UK for absolutely no gain, what happened to this “One Nation”?

      Best of luck trying to sell that one on the door step Mr Tory guy.

      Hurry up Nicola, canny take much merr of this bullshit.

    20. Adam says:

      Oh God. I hope some way can be found to outmanoeuvre these bastards. There really is no depth to which they will not sink.

    21. Alex Smith says:

      Kenny Farquharson is a prick..and has been since he was drummer in the Megazones…

    22. Lochside says:

      Kevin McDonald…we need ‘Labour to get their sh*t together…to fight the cuts’?

      Labour are ‘shit’…Better Together Shit…or have you forgotten? When are all the Labour Luvvies on here going to get this shit about Labour as a party of the Left out of their feeble minds?

      We have 56 MPs who are there to disrupt and discredit the Unionist Hegemony at Westminster. We and the ’56’ must carry this fight alone. Let’s accept it once and for all.. Labour are finished!

      Blair risen from his crypt should haunt all those optimists of the ’90’s….what was the song? ‘Things can only get Better?'(Together?)…well that was right wasn’t it?…or right wing more like.

      Blair..the grinning skull is right about caveman nationalism..he copyrighted it. The BritNat variety courtesy of Thatcher (his hero) and the Neocons in the White House.

      By the way, I got castigated a while ago for describing Obama a an ‘Uncle Tom’..well if you listen to his latest fire side homily about the UK needing to ‘stay’ in the EU…echoes of the Ref came back that we are facing the whole of the goddam lot of them in this struggle.

      The only real friends Scotland has are the ordinary people of the planet slowly being suffocated by the Military Industrial Complex of the evil axis of Banks and large aggressive Nation States.

      Until International Capital and its shareholders are held to account by our political elite and subordinated in favour of the ordinary people’s wellbeing, we are going to have to suffer the spectacle of faux reformist ‘Labour’ promising change while practising cruel tory destruction of our welfare state and civil rights..

    23. Tackety Beets says:

      I have often used the phrase
      “To every action there is an equal but opposite reaction”

      To maintain services those N/Paper hacks are urging SNP to increase the tax on Scotland , and the more TAX we pay the less we get via Barnett.

      How about reducing Scottish taxes, so we pay less TAX as surely the Barnett from WM would increase.
      Naw ?

      Anyway its all P**h ! as its only % dribbles via the Scotland Bill.
      I would be very tempted to tell WM to stick Smith …….!

      Interesting times.

    24. starlaw says:

      Any money raised through higher tax by the SNP will simply be deducted from the Scottish hand out by Westminster. Best no tax increase, after all we are all better together pooling and sharing.
      Keep reminding them of the pooling and sharing and why should Scots be higher taxed than the rest of this glorious realm

    25. msean says:

      “Raise taxes,you have the powers”
      “but you said you had broad shoulders…”

      Thanks for that no voters.

    26. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

      It probably would be a bit worrying if the scottish public gave a shit about what the tories and their tiny circulation idiot newspapers said.

      They don’t.

      Nor will the small ‘powers’ westminster grudgingly hands over be anything other than cosmetic and thus laughably easy for Nicola to explain to the scottish public precisely how useless they are, and what we could do with REAL powers instead, in the face of the nasty party attacks on the disabled and the poor.

    27. The SNP are chosen representatives, it should be sufficient that they reflect the wishes of Scotland as best they can in the face of a Westminster Government that does not care about their own people. I trust them more than either Westminster or the Scotsman which has become an out dated toilet paper.

    28. Gordon E says:

      God, this is so very depressing.
      The SNP should be highlighting this trap at every opportunity but so far have failed to do so.
      A crowd funded leaflet explaining what is going on I think is now essential.

    29. heedtracker says:

      They want to get SNP and Sturgeon out of office asap. SLabour are waiting. Smith Commission was made to fcuk Scotland.

      If a second ref looks imminent in a manifesto, watch them start devo for councils and cities, most powerful city devo ever, most powerful councils ever, most devolved country in the world no longer needs a Holyrood…

      The UKOK Vow shyst last year is just the beginning of the end of Scottish democracy. The BBC in Scotland etc will make sure we like it too.

      This dudes a Smith author, he savaged Scottish democracy and won, combined big hearted conciliatory winner, to full on tory destruction and he says it is their 18 Sept 2014 democratic mandate.

      Hard to argue that one, proud Scot buts.

    30. Tackety Beets says:

      Hi Les ,
      Peter Bell posts here occasionally.
      I urge those interested to follow him on FB.

      He posts some excellent work.

    31. John Walsh says:

      Mendacious Tory newspapers are backing up a Tory trap on theoretical powers that we may never be gifted.

    32. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      The SNP have so far failed to explain to the general public the extent of tax controls.

      This will have to be done.

      1. There are circa 24 taxes in the uk
      2. The Scotland Bill will only give the Scottish Parliament control of some Income Tax. To my amazement nobody has mentioned tax reliefs (will remain with Westminster). In addition unearned income will not be devolved.
      3. Tax reliefs are costs. In 2013-14 the total cost of tax reliefs in the UK was circa £175bn. Many favour the wealthy on a disproportional basis.
      The cost of pension tax relief alone was £48bn, when taking into consideration income tax, corporation tax, NI relief etc.
      4. Therefore with control of all taxes, including tax reliefs, the SG would be able to cut quite dramatically and provide a fairer tax regime without increasing direct taxes at all.

    33. beachthistle says:

      @Iain Gray’s Subway Lament

      “It probably would be a bit worrying if the scottish public gave a shit about what the tories and their tiny circulation idiot newspapers said.

      They don’t.”

      Whilst that’s true, we can be sure that BBC Jockland will use their TV, radio and website megaphones to ensure that the mendacious spin of the Tory press in Scotland is given undue prominence, and that Pathetic Quay broadcasters will use The Scotchman, Times, etc. headlines to set the tone and narrative of news ‘reports’ and the aggressive agenda of interviews…

    34. handclapping says:

      The Tories have just cottoned onto the really big problem for them in giving us taxing powers. They are trying to obscure and obfuscate by trying to get the people and the SNP to believe that the tax powers are entirely hypothecated to bolstering the social security network that they are dismantling. However …

      Stand back and look at what a 1p increase might do. The costs of moving are about £5,000 so you need an income of £500,000 to make it worthwhile in one year or £50,000 over 10 years. It will depend on how the SG “spends” the procedes that will determine the outcome.

      If most of the 1p is spent on increasing the productivity of Scots then not only will the rich become richer but so will we. That part of the 1p spent on social security will make Scotland more attractive to the out of work in England and we will start to get in-migration at long last and a chance for an increase in businesses needing a workforce.

      “Our sort of people” not moving and the Scottish population increasing with the sort of plebs who might say Yes – not the future that any right thinking Tory would want

      So what does a 1p decrease in tax do? ( Tune in later, I have to go out now / my shift has ended )

    35. Kate says:

      Doug Danniel says, “To be honest, I can see independence only coming along once the electorate have turned on the SNP, returned to Labour, only to find that they make an even worse job of it, and it *finally* dawning on folk that we’re up the swanny regardless of which party is in power at Holyrood…”

      I could not agree more with this Doug, I Have been saying for sometime now, that we need Labour back in @ Holyrood, to do their very worst. ( which is actually normal for them ) Council tax UP right away, Bedroom tax NOT mitigated, all consessions to auld folk, bus passes, health care & such like, to be removed.

      Tuition fees introduced at same level as ENGLAND ( of course ) prescription charges introduced again, to SAVE our NHS while actual funding, to NHS gets cut by Holyrood.

      Council tax rising YEAR on YEAR. Due to more builds, but all on PFI.

      Then & only then, when the pain kicks in & hurts like hell. Will the people of this country stand together, & do what it takes to take our country back while EVICTING labour ( I hope ) from SCOTLAND forever.

      PS. I am a pensioner living on State Pension, so I would hurt too, maybe even more so under labour. But I still wish to live in an INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND.. I would rather die poor in a free country, than live in one ruled by another country.

    36. Penland Firth says:

      In politics, as in war, it’s never a good idea to do what your enemy invites you to do.

      I don’t see Nicola Sturgeon as the twenty first century equivalent of Lord Raglan. The SNP are wise enough not to play the role of the Light Brigade and charge the Unionists guns, no matter how much the Hootsmon and the Thunderbox “challenge” them to do so.

    37. Brian Powell says:

      As an aside, while many want Jeremy Corbyn to win the UK Labour election and he shares some policies with SNP, he is not on our side.

      He supports the Labour politicians in Holyrood, he is not in favour of Independence, and see the SNP as the opposition.

      Worth bearing in mind, he wouldn’t necessarily be an ally.

    38. Alastair says:

      Steps on soapbox.

      So, so why are so many people’s standard opening word in a response to a question – so.
      Where has this come from. It seems to imply – so, you don’t know so I’ll tell you.
      So,Governments and Chancellors should not be allowed to drip feed hard hitting policies in a budget for implementation 1, 2 and 3 years down track. It takes the heat out of the pain and gives the Goverment less scrutiny and clallenge. Policy changes, especially hard hitting ones should be implemented within a budget cycle so the population can hold the consequences of implemention to immediate account .
      So – there.

    39. Dan Huil says:

      The big picture is that unionist welfare cuts will hit hard a great many people in Scotland. Welfare isn’t devolved. These people will rightly blame westminster.

    40. Albaman says:

      Why is the ” National” not running with this?!, get it out into the public written domain.

    41. MrObycyek says:

      Perhaps the time has come for the SNP to start being more aggressive.

      Time and time again I am reading attacks on the SNP from left, right and centre and the SNP does not hit back as forcefully as they should. By not hitting back with both barrels I worry that an element of doubt may creep into the minds of those who are still undecided about who to vote for in future and that they may actually agree with the guff being spouted by the establishment stooges.

      Project fear was allowed to get away with murder during the referendum and the only way to beat their nonsense is by giving it back in spades. The Yes side had to come up with all the answers and the No side were always on the offensive which meant they did not have to explain their side. The fact is the SNP should be furious with the establishment and all the misery they have brought on, and continue to heap on, people. The corruption is there for all to see so why not attack the establishment on it? The best form of defence is attack. Your opponent cannot attack you if you are attacking them. If the establishment is corrupt, which it is, then highlight it and shout it from the rooftops. People are fed up with the way things are not just in Scotland but clearly in England as well. The Union is floundering so now is the perfect time to start sticking it to them big time.

      The way I see it there is no detriment to the SNP being more on the offensive.

    42. Clootie says:

      This has one benefit it proves beyond all doubt that devolution will not work. It will never be allowed to work. Whitehall has centuries of experience in executing the devious manipulation of other nations in order to bleed them dry.

      Independence is, and always has been, the only solution.

    43. Robert McDonald says:

      I remember the HMRC saying not so long ago that it would be impossible for it to run separate tax regimes for Scotland and the UK. What happened there? Did I miss something? Seems eminently doable now.

    44. Dr Jim says:

      John Swinney…tax collector

      Been saying it since this nonsense started

      Any move our team try to make will be instantly countered by a counter productive move by Osborne rendering Scotland at a disadvantage on every turn we saw it on the Land Reform Tax

      The Unionists will shout their loudest about powers and SNP bad SNP lied to us all

      Now we on this site know what’s coming and we know the lies ,will the rest of Scotland be fooled or will they suss the truth

      There’s only one way to fix this and we all know what it is

      Question is, is our team ready

      I am a Caveman

    45. Robert Louis says:

      Correct me if I am wrong, but does the Scotland bill not require legislative consent from the Scottish Parliament too? If so, the SNP need to reject it. It offers joke powers, and as rightly pointed out by this site, it is a means to basically steal money from Scotland. It will forever put ANY Government of Scotland on the back foot, shackled even more so to the whims of the liars and evil barstewards of Westminster.

      I am well aware that Westminster can force such legislation through, given we do not live in a proper democracy here in Scotland, with quasi-colonial English rule, but nonetheless, I do not think the Scottish Government should agree to these measures.

      It is a token gesture by rejecting it, but a very,very important one. Indeed, in years to come, such a move will be seen as the start of a full on schism between the democratically elected Government of Scotland, and the liars and cheats currently occupying number 10 and the cabinet office in London.

    46. Political parties are important, but less than the people that elect them. Labour’s focus on Westminster and the party is what is killing them in Scotland and that is how it should be. They are not Leaders but Representatives before they can up their game they need to join in

    47. Muscleguy says:


      I agree that relying on international ‘friends’ countries is silly. A good example is the Rainbow Warrior affair when the French sank the Greenpeace ship in Auckland harbour killing Fernando Perrera. The NZ investigation soon fingered a yacht as the most likely route into the country of the mines.

      The yacht had since left and was in Norfolk Island, an Australian Pacific territory. NZ asked for it to be impounded and the bilges to be tested for explosive traces. Before those tests could report the bloody Aussies let the yacht go. It completely disappeared somewhere between Norfolk Island and the French territory of New Caledonia. There was a strong suspicion it rendezvoused with a French submarine, the crew transferred and the yacht was scuppered.

      But the point is our Australian, ANZAC ‘friends’, allies and colleagues in CER (a mini EU type arrangement) shafted us presumably under pressure from the French who also got the EU to put strong trade pressure on NZ over the two French spies that were caught, Prieur and Mafar.

    48. Robert Louis says:

      Meanwhile, we see the contemptible, cerebrally challenged and quite talentless David Mundell, unwanted English colonial viceroy of Scotland, scurrying out the back door of a food bank IN HIS OWN CONSTITUENCY, to escape the justified hatred and abuse he would receive from the public.

      Of course were it not for the likes of Mundell and his English neo-liberal Tory compatriots, there would be no need for another food bank in Dumfries.

      No doubt Mundell will be pleased with his handiwork, relaxing in his second home, on his 100k (plus expenses) salary, while the poor, disabled and broken children of Dumfries starve.

      If there is a god, then surely there will be a special place in hell reserved for people such as this.

    49. gordoz says:

      Everything political offered or ‘brought in’ by either side of the Union regime (Red or Blue Tory), is a trap and always will be.

      Scotland is there to be squeezed like every other colony of the Union. The more we look like disengaging, the more we seem like a colony or province to be bled by the establishment.

      Its just sad that too many Scots / Scottish residents still seem far too dim to realize it, (though the % numbers are closing slowly).

      No Unionist element will resist this trend to strangle Scotland ‘until the pips squeak’. With hapless hacks like Farquharson, Chrichton, Cochrane (& the rest) total media control and now quasi legitimate, orchestrated spying at Holyrood what can we really expect to change unless we totally grasp all ideas of separation once and for all.

    50. GallusEffie says:

      The post by Doug Daniel @1.35 is a most depressing scenario that I never saw coming…

      – can only sum my feelings up as OOOFT for the minute

    51. Juteman says:

      The SNP should ‘do a Greece’, but not bottle it.
      Hold a referendum, with the question along the lines of’ Should we implement the Tory cuts, or should we decide ourselves how to manage our own economy?’

    52. BigMac says:

      could rent caps be introduced as an emergency measure to alleviate the problem that low earners will face due to the cuts?
      Many landlords will have bought their properties at pre 2000 prices and the return on capital must be well above 10% per annum and capital appreciation will also be very positive, so compared to bank interest they are doing OK.
      It is quite possible that many homes will have been bought for under £50,000 and are now bringing in over £5,000 a year in rent. As this rent is taxable then any reduction in rent will be partially offset by tax that won’t have to be paid on rent foregone.
      That, plus the proposal that employers should pay something nearer the living wage could go someway towards alleviating the pain of less tax credits being available.
      Most low earners will be unlikely to have much slack in their budget, so something like this will have to happen.
      Increasing tax to Scottish tax payers might be possible but wouldn’t the Barnett amount be reduced accordingly?
      Much prefer Independence! Best option. If we are going to face this pain I would rather suffer for the sake of Scotland and not bloody Westminsters. Benefit.

    53. mr thms says:

      There is an incentive to get people off benefit and into work since more people in work means more revenues go to the Scottish government. Varying Scotland’s 10p rate will only benefit Westminster whichever way you look at it.

    54. Dal Riata says:

      “This is a victory for the Daily Record and a victory for social justice”

      The Daily Record aren’t officially a black-comedy outfit, but if they tried….

    55. Taranaich says:

      @Doug Daniel: To be honest, I can see independence only coming along once the electorate have turned on the SNP, returned to Labour, only to find that they make an even worse job of it, and it *finally* dawning on folk that we’re up the swanny regardless of which party is in power at Holyrood…

      Normally I agree with you, Doug, but on this I couldn’t disagree more – partially because I don’t think so, and partially because I refuse to even consider the possibility of going back to the Dark Ages.

      Too much has happened since the referendum. Too many people are awake now. You remember taking the SNP surges with a pinch of salt? I think nearly all of us did the same: we didn’t dare to hope. Yet look what happened: 6 seats and 19.9% of the vote in 2010, to 56 seats and 50% of the vote in 2015, mere months after the SNP’s most profound, devastating defeat in its entire history, all during a campaign where they were villified and monstered by the near entirety of the press and establishment.

      I’ll be damned if it’ll take a return to council tax hikes, tuition fees, bedroom taxes, prescription charges and multi-millions in waste for the scales to fall from the people’s eyes. After all the work we’ve done? All that canvassing, leafleting, volunteering, all the ground we’ve gained? The gallons of sweat and tears you and I and everyone here has poured into the referendum? If that truly was the only way to gain independence, with the quality and dedication of the people we have, then frankly, what good are they?

      It would be great if Nicola, John et al have some genius move up their sleeve – but they, as I’m sure even they would confirm, did not bring Scotland to within touching distance of independence. The greatest gift of the referendum has been the mobilization of the grassroots, and it’s the grassroots which are going to win it.

      We gave New Labour chance after chance after chance. To let them in now is to destroy all the work we’ve done.

    56. Andrew Haddow says:

      Doug Daniel says, “To be honest, I can see independence only coming along once the electorate have turned on the SNP, returned to Labour, only to find that they make an even worse job of it, and it *finally* dawning on folk that we’re up the swanny regardless of which party is in power at Holyrood…”

      In which case the SNP should return to standing every election as a vote for full independence. What’s to lose.

    57. Joemcg says:

      Doug and Kate-I’m of the opinion (although it was never going to happen) that the SNP should have stepped down en masse on the 19th and left Labour and the other unionists to get on with it. After they made a pigs ear of it and scrapped all the free stuff and council tax started to rocket I honestly think we we would have had a bit of a rebellion on our hands and people would have clamoured for independence.

    58. ian m says:

      2 things
      Stories at this time of the political season are not worth going after the SNP must keep its powder dry for when the electorate are engaged and paying attention.
      An idea that has been used in North America to expose the likes of Ian Murray.
      Some protesters outside his office and blow (constant phone calls) up his phones so that he can not conduct any business.
      This should bring the media around for an SNP bad opportunity.
      The reason for the protest “He lied to the people of Scotland”
      The media then have to put it to him that he abstained and did not vote against the Bill as he claimed

    59. Proud Cybernat says:

      @ Andrew Haddow

      “In which case the SNP should return to standing every election as a vote for full independence. What’s to lose.”

      It is entirely possible that the SNP might, just might, obtain a majority of the popular vote in Scotland at another FPTP GE–it came within a whisker of doing so in GE2015.

      However, it is much more likely that they would obtain an overall majority in a single question referendum–IndyRef#2. People in might vote for the SNP in General Elections but don’t necessarily want ScotIndy. And I think as well, just so that the Ultra-Unionists (you know who I mean) accept a YES victory that we should aim for (at least) 55% YES, 45% NO. Afterall, the YES side accepted defeat on those numbers in IndyRef#1 so the Unionists should be just as accepting after the final IndyRef.

    60. Les Wilson says:

      Robert Louis says:
      I agree especially with your last part, I could think of dozens more that should join him. Is hell big enough?

    61. Brian Powell says:

      This wasn’t a trap for the SNP and Yes voters, we knew long ago this was what was coming, and the warnings were repeated often.

      It was a trap for the talentless dullards in Scottish Labour who went on doing the dirty work for the Tories, but still believed they would be winners.

      We didn’t see just how talentless until the GE, here and in England.

    62. Marie Clark says:

      @ Robert Louis 3.47 Mundell is NOT the MP for Dumfries. I know lots of people are reporting this today but it is incorrect.

      The MP for Dumfries is Richard Arkless SNP. Mundell’s constituency is the other side of Dumfries & Galloway region. Ask Lesley Anne he is her representative, much to her annoyance.

      Anyway, well done to all the folk who turned out to give him such a good welcome. Pity that they did’t have some tar & feathers with them. Bloody wee nyaff.

    63. call me dave says:

      Mundell: “Shame on you” the voters shout.

    64. John Moss says:

      Time for independence.

      Kind of kills all the nonsense doesn’t it?

      It’s the cure-all for all this antiScots nonsense.

      Let’s get it done and over with.


    65. gordoz says:

      @Doug Daniel – sorry …

      Can’t honestly see folk going back to Labour in enough numbers for them to hold sway here ever again; not now.

      Now switching to the devious Tories – I could see Scots being mugs enough via Business Leaders guff we saw in the Ref.

      Recent Ino – Local ‘Bluenose / Better Together’ Builder where I live, who scared all his workers into voting NO at ref cause Indy/ SNP BAD etc, etc has just gone bust laying off all staff; (50+)

      Another Union dividend .. oh and Better Together right enough: see Ya !

      – sure his staff have learned a big lesson. Union didn’t save their jobs !

    66. ross says:

      I would like to hold the Scots Parliament to account on poverty when it has welfare and full tax powers. To hold the Scottish Government, of whatever hue, responsible without a clear basket of powers is completely unhelpful.

      The Unionists, terrified by the SNP, have delivered a hogswash of powers noone below economic academia can understand. This does not aide accountability of either Parliament.

    67. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:


      “we can be sure that BBC Jockland will use their TV, radio and website megaphones to ensure that the mendacious spin of the Tory press in Scotland is given undue prominence, and that Pathetic Quay broadcasters will use The Scotchman, Times, etc. headlines to set the tone and narrative of news ‘reports’ and the aggressive agenda of interviews…

      Yep. Just like they did all the way through the election campaign and we won 56 out of 59 seats.

      Do not underestimate just how deeply mistrusted the unionist dominated media are by the majority of the scottish public now after the first Indyref.

      This is about trust and who the scottish public trust to not only to deliver meaningful powers but to best use them to help the people of Scotland.

      Those worried about out of touch tories setting traps should keep in mind what the biggest trap of all was meant to be for the SNP.

      It was a trap so cunning, so complete and so certain to succeed it was going to “kill the SNP stone dead!

      You all know how that turned out. 😉

      Devolution and more powers were anything but a death sentence to the SNP. On the contrary. It has utterly humiliated the westminster establishment parties and backfired completely on them.

      So too will it be for any powers that they reluctantly hand over whether they believe them to be a trap or not. We will use those that can help the Scottish public, ignore those that cannot and change those that can be changed for the better.

      We will also employ the powers we already have to highlight the nasty party’s lies and the red tories should they also be unwise enough to try and challenge us on who will best ABSTAIN, sorry, LOL, stand up to the tories. 😀

    68. liz says:

      John S and Nicola are not stupid and will not fall into this trap.

      For those saying why aren’t the SNP complaining more, well they do, its just that the MSM don’t ever report what they say.

    69. Kevin Evans says:

      Yup we’ve been saying it for years the so called “vow” and the smith commission was a trap waiting to be sprung.

      I hope the people who voted NO are satisfied

    70. Gillian_Ruglonian says:

      Interesting posts emanating from Dougs view at 1.35

      I recognize the seeming inevitability of this depressing situation and I understand the position of both Kate, Joemcg and galluseffie.
      However, I can’t just dismiss Taranaichs positivity and the reality check he brings (loved you’re last article btw).

      We have been through a lot as a people recently, and that has unseen manifestations, look at the GE result. I think that that for some folk who weren’t quite ready in September, the journey has continued and their gloves are now off! We can’t underestimate that feeling just because it happened to us so long ago (some of us may in fact have been born with our gloves off!).
      There is a sense of new rules being written since the Tories got their majority, and although I agree with the seriousness of Stu’s last 3 paragraphs, there is an element at play now in Scotland that can’t quite be quantified, I’d say it’s the unpredictability of the ‘well, f*ck it’ factor, and that’s why anything’s possible 🙂

      Slightly o/t, looking at the first photo in the article, is that Pippin (Frodos pal)? Wtf is a hobbit doing dressing up as a tory? Strange days indeed 😉

    71. Hamish100 says:

      The issue is not really about raising or lowering taxes.

      Before that is considered we need to demand that ALL revenues accruing in Scotland stay’s in Scotland. If I buy a pencil sharpener in WH Smith in sunny Edinburgh the VAT etc is gathered in London. Dare I say it, the BBC licence fee and the tax heads straight to London. A bus ticket to Auchtermuchty likewise.

      So let the tories state that all revenues will reside in Scotland. Saves all that hassle of sending monies to London and for some strange reason we seem to get less back. Helps keep some civil servant in London in a job— whose taxes stay in London!!

    72. One_Scot says:

      What I find hard to believe is that so many of us are apparently happy to suffer this pish indefinitely.

      Somewhere something’s not right.

    73. Famous15 says:

      Mitigation is a trap.

      We were promised the broad shoulders of the Union so there is no rquirement to raise taxes.

      See how desperate they are as the ask the SNP to say what they are going to do with the new welfare powers. My answer would be that only giving us the powers of Pontius Pilate does not make sense.

    74. fred blogger says:

      what’s not right is that these people want to and believe have entitlement to the gold top zone of the milk.

    75. Blair paterson says:

      I have said it before and I will say it again as long as you play by their rules you can never won ,you wil only won when you break their rules and that’s a fact their is an old saying ,only when you attempt the ridiculous will you achieve the impossible

    76. Effijy says:

      Rev you are no fun!
      You will not be going to the right wing media ball this Xmas. Is there another type of UK Media?

      These fools acting as journalists must feel degraded when
      you shoot down the crap they put forward to their readers.

      It just can’t be the case that people who can afford the Scotsman are not intelligent enough to add up the 2 and 2 that their columns try to stack up as 100?

      Mind numbingly stupid collection of thoughts wasted on a blank sheet of paper!

      “If SNP cared about Scots they would come up with the money that Westminster steals from us and cover up the depraved attacks on our industry, society, and our democracy by Westminster.”?

      Utterly breath taking arrogant b***** trying to perpetuate the lies that are Scotland’s only bond with England.

      Can’t be long until they only do free papers and compete with the Metro. No one could give it any form of credibility !

    77. Les Wilson says:

      Stv shows Mundell getting a hard time from protesters at his foodbank opening. What could he possible have expected.

      Also had a report with Nicola on GCGQ spying on our MSP’s, she has sent a letter to Cameron and asks the question.
      No doubt we will get a waffle reply, but look forward to see how he justifies this if correct.

      Somehow I do not think it will just be MSP’s, but likely anyone who talks out against the British State, oh oops.

    78. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

      How do we win the next Indy referendum and have it sooner than expected?

      Restrict voting to those born and living in Scotland!

    79. Joemcg says:

      ronald-don’t start that one again!

    80. handclapping says:

      Just when we start to get it out to the world that the SNP is a civic nationalist party along comes some clown like ronald mcdonald and preaches ethnic nationalism.

      And there is no proof that it would be effective.

    81. Lesley-Anne says:

      Sorry but I haven’t read any posts yet. 😉

      I’m just recovering from my first ever venture into the mad mad mad world of protesting! 🙂

      We managed to bimble along to Dumfries this morning and join in with the anti Fluffy protest outside the APEX Centre. Not knowing what to expect I was quite relaxed about the whole thing but it wasn’t till later that I realised what I’ve just done. 😛

      I ended up doing not one, not two, not three but FOUR interviews whilst at the protest. 😀 I mean what was it about me that drew all these interview requests … then I realised what it was … it must have been the T-shirt (a Wings special I’m on the list) … yup that’s what it is it was the T-shirt wot caused the interview requests!

      So far I’ve seen myself on the ITV Border news item about Fluffy … not a pretty sight on so many levels … you have been warned! 😀

      The Daily Record also has a piece about Fluffy and his snake in the grass arrival and exit from the APEX CEntre in Dumfries. There is also a few comments from some village idiot called Lesley-Anne! 😀

    82. Iain More says:

      I know who I would increase taxes on. The 4 holiday home owning canutes and their spouses that I know voted Naw in the Referendum would do for starters. If I think long enough I am sure I can come up with a list of other Naw voting types and I will smugly tell them to their faces ” Yee got fit yee voted fir!”

    83. Bill McLean says:

      Great comments Lesley-Anne. I’m appalled at the arrogance and hubris of Mundell. We must extricate ourselves from this foul, corrupt union as soon as possible.

    84. cearc says:

      Well done L-A!

    85. Mundell’s sneaking in and out of a food bank (or ham fisted attempt to do so) epitomises the Tory policy of claiming you are all for ‘one nation‘, you care for the poor (honest) that’s why you want them to be forced into unpaid work while doing your best to break the nation up and drive more folk into poverty.

      Trussell may have invited Mundell simply because they knew he would take a bit of a pounding while claiming they were simply ‘engaging with the Scottish Tory Viceroy‘. Mundell’s minders probably were hoping for a bigger rammy, even some eggs would have been good to run the vicious ‘cybernat‘ line, instead Mundell scuttled away to the laughter of the protestors, no violence, no sweary words just abject humiliation for the ‘Scotch Viceroy‘ even BBC Scotland could not find anyway of spinning this as anything else than Mundell running away.

      So here’s the thing, like the rest of the Conservative and Labour Unionist Party of Scotland; Mundell, the Hootsmon, Deputy Dugdale and the rest of them are talking to themselves in a paper (the Hootsmon) whose circulation is now so low it is considered a ‘local paper‘ as its daily sales dip below the 20,000 mark and scrape 30,000 if you add in all the freebie give aways to hotel chains, airlines and the rest.

      Much like the Conservative and Labour Unionist Party of Scotland the question of the Hootsmon and its remaining journalists is – Just what is the point?

    86. ronald alexander mcdonald says:


      I’m not preaching ethnic nationalism.If you choose to be abusive that’s up to you.

      Hasn’t Cameron stated that only those born in the UK will be able to vote in the EU referendum?

      There were surveys carried out after the referendum that confirmed the majority of born Scots voted Yes. Also confirmed that around 70% of English voted NO. They constitute approx 10% of Scotlands population.

    87. Nana Smith says:


      Well done you!!

      I saw a comment on twitter that Fluffy’s missus stuck two fingers up at the protesters. What dreadful manners if true.

    88. Paula Rose says:

      @ Lesley-Anne xxx

    89. Lesley-Anne says:


      Anyone in Central belt hoping to miss the antics going on in Dumfries today … TOUGH! 😛

      Apparently STV News showed footage of the demo in Dumfries today including, apparently, this site’s very own village idiot! (red bandana and all!;) ) 😀

    90. GallusEffie says:

      Very well done Lesley Anne and all the others at the protest, a good spirited crowd representing our disgust at austerity government. The pictures were fab!

    91. Betty Craney says:

      Well done , Lesley-Anne, saw your interview ..aye ! Red bandana and all !

      What’s it like to be famous ? Can I get your autograph ?

    92. Marcia says:

      Good on you Lesley-Anne.

    93. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks to all, it was a fun day out. 😉

      I was in my wheelchair so all the interviewers had to kneel down to speak to me. I think the best bit was when the BBC lassie finished with “If you could speak to Mr Mundell today what would you say?”

      My reply? 😉

      “Whaur’s the Brasso?

      I want to rub his neck!”

      Pair wee lassie almost fell onto her earse with that! 😀

    94. Grouse Beater says:

      Ronald: Hasn’t Cameron stated that only those born in the UK will be able to vote in the EU referendum?

      Prior to, and in knowledge of, the Referendum our leaders in London were piling the placemen into Scotland as fast as they could bribe them to move home and stay here awhile. So, in essence I agree with your feelings – there has to be some restrictions next time round.

      Stifling this debate only causes resentment and frustration. But here isn’t the place.

      You might have read this already:

    95. Lesley-Anne says:

      I never got up into the car park Nana so can’t confirm that but wouldn’t be surprised.

    96. November13 says:

      What is happening just now can be described as”Malevolent Westminster vandalism of Scotland”. They will not stop because they despise us. This is not fantasy. This is what the Brits do to people they think they have beaten.

      This is Eire of the 20th century being played out in Scotland in the 21st century. The problem is that we have so many brainwashed subservient people in Scotland. It will be up to us the 45 to fight for their land and our land. In time to come the no voters will look back in shame and thank us the strong ones for their freedom they get in the future.

      Never give in to the Eton boys or the sychophantic Slabour Brita. We can do this we got 45 we can get 55.

    97. Grouse Beater says:

      Must say how much I admire those near enough to protest at Mundell opening of a local Food Bank. I’d have done the same were I in the vicinity.

      I read the Wee Sweety Wife exited by the back door.

      How appropriate.

    98. Joemcg says:

      Lesley-Anne so you are one of those nazi brownshirts I have been reading about on the proud scotchman threads? Disgraceful!

    99. HenBroon says:

      All of these political booby traps are placed there to trip Scotland up and other policies such as the wind farm subsidy withdrawal, the unstable North Sea taxation, and the unfair grid charges that discriminate against Scotland, all of it is engineered in Westminster by clever dicks who thinjk they can out smart us and destabilise the country. The economic damage they do will be damaging but not half as damaging as the what they are now doing on a daily basis to them selves and their precious union. it really is time the SNP grew spme balls and started shouting out about this economic espionage and vandalism. The fact that we have now seen that GCHQ are blatant;y spying on us shows us just how fucking ruthless and unpleasant they will become. Time to go, now. Declare UDI and use a Scottish currency we know will thrive. Fuck them.

    100. Lesley-Anne says:

      Anyone who missed (how DARE you miss my starring role!!! 😛 ) the ITV Border News item on the wee *ahem* party atmosphere get together today in Dumfries can see it here. Check out the cool lass with the red bandana! 😀

    101. Lesley-Anne says:

      Joemcg says:

      Lesley-Anne so you are one of those nazi brownshirts I have been reading about on the proud scotchman threads? Disgraceful!


      I’m not one of those nasty brownshirts Joe … I have no idea what you mean. 😉

      I’m a proud, extremely proud CYBERNAT a.k.a. a cave dweller! 😛

    102. Marie Clark says:

      Oh well done Lesley-Anne I did see that report on Border news, but I didn’t realize that was you.

      Good lass.

    103. Croompenstein says:

      Go Lesley-Anne, loved the shirt 🙂
      Have you still got the Yes battle bus?

    104. starlaw says:

      Perhaps Mr Mundell dos’nt accept that rain causes floods either.
      maybe he has joined the flat earth society

    105. Nana Smith says:


      I’m sure we will hear about it eventually. Another tweeter said the car he drove off in had a YES sticker on it. Now that would be sweet!

    106. galamcennalath says:


      Saw you on TV. Well done for telling it like it is 🙂

      BTW, anyone, was the food bank actually in Mundell’s constituency?

    107. Colin Dunn says:

      Pretty grim reading.

      These are the two scenarios as I see them. Anyone disagree?

      Scenario 1:
      – Over next 5 years Tories cut Scotland’s budget year on year, Barnett is quietly phased out.
      – SNP tries to ameliorate worst effects of cuts by raising few taxes it has control off. Fails
      – 2020 Tories re-elected at WM
      – 2021 Labour majority at Holyrood. Over next 5 years voters realise that Labour powerless to do any different under Tory cuts and slash-and-burn Scotland policy
      – 2026 voters return SNP with majority at Holyrood. SNP has no alternative but to call referendum which a) gets a Yes vote at last or b) gets a No vote again due to voters aspirations in Scotland being ground down to nothing after more than 10 years of Tory rule.

      Scenario 2:
      – Over next 5 years Tories cut Scotland’s budget year on year, Barnett is quietly phased out.
      – SNP does best to ameliorate worst effects of Tory cuts in short-term, whilst hammering home to voters that they do what they can but are hamstrung by WM’s reserved powers.
      – SNP chooses strategic moment to call for indyref2: a time where things are bad enough that enough No voters have had their minds changed by Tory cuts but not so bad that the SNP is beginning to lose voters in large numbers. Such event likely to be, A) implementation of EVEL, B) England choosing to exit EU whilst Scotland votes to stay in, or C) just enough Scots voting to stay in EU to win a majority whilst majority in England vote to leave.
      – Indyref2 2017 or 2018. Yes or No? Fine balance even then.

    108. Marco McGinty says:

      @Les Wilson
      “Somehow I do not think it will just be MSP’s, but likely anyone who talks out against the British State, oh oops.”

      You better believe it happens. A blog that I regularly contribute to, that just happens to be against the persecution of wildlife, which is mostly carried out by wealthy landowners, establishment figures, and their lackeys, in their pursuit of driven grouse and pheasant shooting (perhaps the most environmentally and ecologically damaging land management regimes currently practiced in Scotland and rUK).

      Just last year, data from the site’s ClustrMap app revealed a disproportionate level of traffic coming from Westminster. At that time, for the period of 14 Sep 2013 to 28 July 2014, almost one third of site traffic emanated from Westminster, clearly showing that the site (and most probably all of supportive contributors), was under some form of surveillance, simply because it was attacking a pastime mainly carried out by establishment figures, or the wealthy.

      See here

      So, on that note, if anyone has concerns about the poor management of our uplands, and the relentless persecution of many of our iconic raptors (and other native predators), then I would be very grateful if the people on this site gave some consideration to the following petition that aims to ban driven grouse shooting;

      If you agree with this petition, please sign it, and distribute the information to friends and family via Facebook, Twitter, or any other means you find suitable.

    109. Lesley-Anne says:

      Croompenstein says:

      Go Lesley-Anne, loved the shirt 🙂
      Have you still got the Yes battle bus?

      Thanks Marie and Croomps and no I haven’t seen the Yess battle bus. ;(

    110. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Unfortunately, the link of the Daily Record story doesn’t allow the video to play – you have to go to the DR’s site to view – which I did.

      At approximately 37 seconds into the clip, the driver of the car, who, because things happen quickly, I thought was a male(!), but on watching still frames realised it was a female, raises her hand to block the camera, then folds back her ring finger and pinkie to leave the two finger salute.

      Here’s a screen grab –

      Apologies for the direct link below but it’s the only way to watch the video.

      PS: Well done Lesley-Anne! Definitely ‘Down with this sort of thing’!

    111. RMF Brown says:

      Anybody that mentions UDI should be tarred, feathered, and exiled to Skegness.

      Despite being a yes voter, I would disown any attempt to subvert the democratic will of Scotland. The nation said No, we need to win the argument if ever there is another referendum. All this talk of UDI is unhelpful and anti-democratic.

    112. Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      What’s not to like? You’ve always been star material darlin’. 🙂

      Superb LA. 😀

    113. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thanks Brian. This was the first ever protest I’ve been on … no honestly it is! 😉

      It was, as I thought it would be, fun and good humoured throughout. I’m still disappointed that I never actually got to meet my *ahem* hero today.

      There was just one thing I wanted to say to him:

      Pass the Brasso!

      I have a neck to polish! 😀

      Brian you can use this to archive pages.

    114. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Lesley-anne.

      I know to use but, I typed in my post,

      “Unfortunately, the link of the Daily Record story doesn’t allow the video to play – you have to go to the DR’s site to view – which I did.”

      Then I gave the link to the screen grab, from the video, of the 2 fingers.

    115. Marco McGinty says:

      “I think it’s very disappointing that the issue around foodbanks has become so politicised. Nobody wants to see people living in poverty, or difficulty, but I am so disappointed that there’s so much political point scoring, that we actually don’t have the constructive debate we need if we want to see the eradication of poverty, which everybody does.”, said Mundell, the lying, snivelling Tory.

      If he doesn’t want the issue of foodbanks to be politicised, if he doesn’t want people living in poverty, and he is so keen to see the eradication of poverty, then why is he a member of the only political party that has made the greatest contribution to increased poverty in the UK, along with the burgeoning need for foodbanks?

    116. Tackety Beets says:

      Congratulations and well done to all for your protestations inDumfries today .

      LA , I saw the Grampian Version , you were in it . Great shirt BTW .

      Sorry to say no interviews.
      RS said folk shouted abuse , STV says folk shouted ” Shame on you”

      Onionists will gradually realise what Nicola means when she says ” The people will determine if there is another Ref”
      Good work folks .

    117. Joe says:

      If raising taxes is the trap we should lower them right across the board using the excuse that the Tory cuts are so sickeningly violent to raise them would be criminal.

    118. call me dave says:


      Just catching up, been out since tea time.

      Well done LA and to all the others too who managed to turn up.

      Caught a bit on the BBC lunchtime news but the ITV borders TV did an excellent job there up the thread a bit.

      It will do him good to meet some of his constituents 🙂

    119. caz-m says:


      Your first protest you say, you handled it like a pro. You do realise that you are a celebrity now. So hopefully see you at one of the rallies up the road.

      Good turnout, well done to everyone who made Mundell feel so welcome.

      Go LA!

    120. dakk says:

      Another propaganda exercise by the BritNat Establishment and their tame meeja.

      Recent electoral events lead me to believe we have just about passed critical mass in getting the truth out to enough of the electorate to negate their lies and spin.

      Sites like Wings, social networking and word of mouth to people not on-line will alert people to the fiscal traps these devious unionist parasites are laying for Scotland and her people.

    121. caz-m says:

      Anybody up for a Scottish Independence Referendum in 2018?

      I signed the petition.

      2018 would do me just fine.

    122. Lesley-Anne says:

      OOPs Sorry Brian I was all a tither when I put my last post up … honest! 😉

      Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      What’s not to like? You’ve always been star material darlin’. 🙂

      Superb LA. 😀

      Thanks Macart. 😛

      I’m currently sitting here trying to work out my charge rates you know for my now soon to be (in)famous signature! 😀

      I’m thinking £2.50 just for my signature and £5 if the signature is accompanied by a photograph. 😀

      Thanks TB. I bought the T-shirt from the Wings megastore. 🙂

    123. Lesley-Anne says:

      To everyone who thinks I should now start attending more events can I just say … be careful of what you ask for! 😀

      My partner has just groaned … she thinks my head is too big as it is! 😀

    124. dakk says:

      Lesley Anne

      What can I say.

      That was great viewing,and fills me full of hope for the future of Scotland.

      If Scotland is to regain her independence it is people like yourselves at the protest who will be the final catalyst.

    125. Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      I still have those images we used during the referendum y’know. The ones with thone damned stylish hat. 😀

    126. Alistair says:

      If the SNP raise taxes, the first to leave will be no voters. In addition, it will stem the flow of no voters moving north from England. Provided the next indy ref requires the person to be registered in Scotland for income tax in order to vote, it will be a good way to speed up the inevitable.

    127. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      BBC Bias demo at Pacific Quay, Saturday 1st August, 2pm till 4pm.

    128. Lesley-Anne says:

      Macart says:

      @Lesley Anne

      I still have those images we used during the referendum y’know. The ones with thone damned stylish hat. 😀

      Brilliant Macart.

      I still have the hat but thought hat AND bandana would be just a tad O.T.T. today. 😀

    129. paulTgeist says:

      For those of you not willing to help support the Dirty Redcoat by clicking on links to its website there is ample footage and articles on the event if you Google – mundell foodbank youtube.

      Remember, The Dirty Redcoat helped to deceive our country on a massive scale and must also be held partially responsible for the poverty which exists in our country.

      There is never any excuse palatable for helping these rags.
      There is always an alternative. That’s what we pay Stu for.

    130. Rock says:

      “This site has warned repeatedly since 2013 that Scotland was being set up for heavy financial punishment if it voted No.”

      And we still had so many people stupid enough to vote No.

      And if there was another referendum next week, they would still vote No according to the polls.

      Scotland really has some of the most stupid and pathetic people on the planet.

      Has any other country in the world rejected independence?

      It was a no brainer for even the poorest people in Africa to fight for independence.

      We were offered it on a golden plate and a majority refused.

      Alternatively, a majority of the people of Scotland are not stupid or pathetic. The British Establishment rigged the referendum.

      Hopefully the second case is true.

    131. Graeme Doig says:

      Well done LA and all others who gave Mundell a mouthful today. He deserved nothing less.

      If he had any decency (aye right) he would have turned down the invite.

      Nothing like proving you are a hypocritical, piss-taking wee shite eh David.

    132. Rock says:

      Derek Henry,

      “We have to get out of this currency slavery as soon as possible.”

      We can only get out the currency slavery after independence.

      The currency question is irrelevant at the moment, as are questions about the monarchy and EU.

      Don’t let the unionists divide us on these non relevant issues as they did before last year’s referendum.

      Next time there should be no white paper from the Scottish Government.

      Just immediate independence following a Yes vote, followed by a general election within three months where the different parties set out their policies and proposals on how to negotiate the terms with Westminster.

      The “sovereign” people of Scotland can then decide which policies they want to vote for.

    133. scott says:

      caz-m says:

      24 July, 2015 at 8:42 pm

      Anybody up for a Scottish Independence Referendum in 2018?

      I think you should have another think about that year,will there not be a conflict with the rest of the UK.
      Great War 1914-1918?
      This is just a thought on my part but I will vote YES if it is then.

    134. Lesley-Anne says:

      Graeme Doig says:

      Well done LA and all others who gave Mundell a mouthful today. He deserved nothing less.

      If he had any decency (aye right) he would have turned down the invite.

      Nothing like proving you are a hypocritical, piss-taking wee shite eh David.

      Thanks Graeme.

      I’ve been trhinking about our wee escapade to Dumfries today and have come to the conclusion that Mundell actually had a chance to defuse the situation today … not that it was in any way threatening or nasty. In my view all he had to do was to come out and speak to the folks outside put his side of the argument and I’m sure folks would have listened then listen to what we had to say … job done!

      Unfortunately Mundell forgot to pack his backbone when he left WM for the Summer reccess so he ended up scurrying away like the sleekit snake in the grass he is!

    135. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Rock, sometimes you curb your enthusiasm and type common sense, like your ‘white paper’ piece.

      Keep it up! ‘He is yong, he is lorning’….

    136. Robert Louis says:

      Les Wilson at 614,

      It has long been known that certainly in the early days, the SNP was infiltrated by special branch. That is without doubt. At a guess, I would assume, it is the case right now.

      Such is ‘democracy’ Yookay style.

      As regards GCHQ spying on MSP’s, I do not doubt the SNP are listened into the whole time, you see, it does not matter if GCHQ is or isn’t allowed to do it, because they can always get their buddies at NSA to do it instead. This is how GCHQ bypass national laws.

      Given the NSA bugged Merkel, Hollande, and many other world leaders for years (as revealed by Edward Snowden and Wikileaks), I hardly think they will be concerned at bugging Nicola Sturgeon et. al.

      I have always worked on the assumption the SNP already knows this and takes precautions. MI5/MI6 are quite literally a law unto themselves, charged with protecting and preserving the United Kingdom

    137. Andrew Haddow says:

      “Hopefully the second case is true.”

      Hopefully not, because if it is true, they’ll rig the next one too.

    138. K11 says:

      Just catching up…well done LA! Brilliant turnout all in. You came across as articulate and passionate, just like you do on here 🙂

    139. Dal Riata says:

      And so. This is how the Daily Mail ‘reports’ on Fluffy scurrying out the back door after getting told by people – real people – what they thought about him and his food bank opening:

      The Scottish Nasty Party [Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!] strikes again: Mob [Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!] surrounds last Tory MP north of the border as he opens food bank

      *David Mundell had to flee through back door and escape [LOL!] in waiting car

      *He looked visibly shaken [More LOLz!] after visiting Trussell Trust food bank at Apex centre in Dumfries

      *Anti-austerity activists including Scottish Nationalists [ROFL!] chanted ‘shame on you’ at Conservative MP

      *West Dumfries branch of SNP said on Facebook: ‘A great turnout to welcome Scotland’s Viceroy, “Fluffy Munnel”… shame he scuttled off out the backdoor’

      (Square brackets are mine.)

    140. Graeme says:

      “Scotland really has some of the most stupid and pathetic people on the planet.”

      As much as it pains me to say it I couldn’t agree more but that said we also have some of the smartest and in the end they will prevail and we will be a nation again shot of the shit that is the British establishment

    141. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Graeme.

      “but that said we also have some of the smartest and in the end they will prevail and we will be a nation again shot of the shit that is the British establishment”

    142. CameronB Brodie says:

      “I think it’s very disappointing that the issue around foodbanks has become so politicised…..

      WTF? The growing chasm between the ‘haves’ and ‘have-nots’, spotlighted by scandalous levels of food poverty in a nation as rich as Scotland, are not a political issue? I think those who accused our Imperial Viceroy of not being the sharpest tool in the box, were spot on the money.

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Scotland’s ransom. How exactly does a Tory government elected with a narrow majority by English constituencies and which is represented by ONE MP in Scotland, have any democratic mandate to impose anything on Scotland? Oh, that’s right, we’re bound by the Acts of Union, which have absolutely no relationship to Scotland’s nor the UK’s democracy, other than present a visibly weakening barrier to it’s achievement. We are subordinate and don’t you forget it.

      Think the spies are busy beavering away for the benefit of the Scottish public? Well, I’ve also got an invisible helicopter to sell. Viewing by appointment. 😉

    144. Graeme Doig says:


      Fluffy has no backbone. His character is unravelling before our eyes and years of living in ‘I’m doing pretty well for myself’ Street in ‘Who gives a shit about anyone else’ ville has left him believing that the establishment can get away with anything.

    145. heedtracker says:

      @Lesley-Anne, well done! ITV say Fluffie refused to be photographed actually in the food bank itself too. Why are soup kitchens now called food banks anyway,

      Toryboy refuses photo op in soup kitchen July 1930?

      Scotland floats on oil and gas…

      SOUP KITCHENS. Soup kitchens have been providing nourishment to the poor and hungry since at least the eighteenth century. Though no longer serving solely a fare of soup and bread, they remain an important component of private food relief three centuries later.

    146. When did the Scottish Governor become the MP for Dumfries?

      Is that foodbank in the SNP or the Con constituency as it appears it is a split town?

    147. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye Graeme you are right. He has been supping from the bowl of Toryness for too long. He has no concept of what it is like to live in the real world. If he tried to live back in the real world he’d end up running home to mummy!

      I just have abosolutely no idea what was going on in his pea sized brain. He was in APEX Centre to OPEN the damned foodbank! Why the hell would the coward not want to be photographed in the foodbank he has just damned well opened? … MORON!

      C.H. the foodbank is in the Tory part of Dumfries … I think. I don’t quite know how Dumfries actually breaks down between the two seats. Pretty damned stupid if you ask me to split Dumfries like this.

    148. Graeme Doig says:

      Revealed! Speaker Berkow lives on the moon.

    149. Fred says:

      Is Munnel the “Third Man” in the Carmichael lying scandal?

    150. Iain More says:

      Robert Louis says:

      “As regards GCHQ spying on MSP’s, I do not doubt the SNP are listened into the whole time, you see, it does not matter if GCHQ is or isn’t allowed to do it, because they can always get their buddies at NSA to do it instead. This is how GCHQ bypass national laws.

      Given the NSA bugged Merkel, Hollande, and many other world leaders for years (as revealed by Edward Snowden and Wikileaks), I hardly think they will be concerned at bugging Nicola Sturgeon et. al.”

      I can only assume that GCHQ/MI5 is fully supported in its activities by its fellow kiddy fiddlers at the NSA since MI5 knew exactly who the kiddy fiddlers in the Brit Establishment were and no doubt are and not one of them were arrested and charged etc. Well they spied on their own supposedly democratically elected Govts for decades with impunity.

      I am going to make a mental leap here and suggest that the only people who wont turn in or castrate child molesters are themselves kiddy fiddlers. MI5 according to Press reports regarded kiddy fiddling as merely politically embarrassing but no threat to security etc, totally ignoring that such depraved activity is criminal.

      I guess they wont even blink when it comes to spying on SNP and SG, I would be flabbergasted if the morally debased people responsible for our so called security weren’t.

    151. tartanpigsy says:

      Briefly, as I’ve not had much time on here lately, but regarding IndyRef2 we have choices to make that ain’t easy.

      1 is when, I think 2020 best and more winnable than 2018 due to obvious Britfest that will be taking place.

      2 is the franchise, do we go nicey nicey inclusive and watch people appear on our electoral roles which WILL increase the No vote, have NO doubt.

      Or, do we restrict the franchise to those voting in next years Scottish election ,or those resident for at least 5 years, or those paying taxes from a Scottish address 12 months a year, or, do we exclude those who move here for free personal care and other retirement benefits but didn’t work here, these are all options to be considered.

      Tough choices but the way I see it if we try to be too nicey nicey we’ll lose, and tbh we’ll deserve to.

      Playing nice won’t win us our independence, so maybe time for some on here to actually think about how the British State operates, and how it gets it’s way so often.

      I for one won’t be hanging about if we lose a second referendum.

    152. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “Rock, sometimes you curb your enthusiasm and type common sense, like your ‘white paper’ piece.”

      Paula Rose is a bad influence on you and on many others.

      If we debate the issues without patronising others and trivialising and personalising the debate as Paula Rose usually does when she is not sober (which is most of the time), we could have civilised discussions, despite differences of opinions.

      She will appear soon and lower the quality of debate.

      If you have any sense, don’t join her.

    153. Lesley-Anne says:

      Fred says:

      Is Munnel the “Third Man” in the Carmichael lying scandal?

      There are more than a few of us thinking exactly along these lines Fred. 😀

    154. Rock says:

      Andrew Haddow,

      “Hopefully the second case is true.”

      “Hopefully not, because if it is true, they’ll rig the next one too.”

      Unfortunatively the alternative is Scotland having some of the most stupid and pathetic people on the planet who refused independence when it was being offered on a golden plate.

      The British Establishment can lower itself to anything, but it is tragic to have so many stupid and pathetic people among us.

    155. Dal Riata says:

      Re the UK’s secret services spying on Scotland’s devolved government in Holyrood and its MSPs.

      From an article in today’s Guardian:

      The revelation that GCHQ treats MSPs differently from MPs threatens to ignite fresh suspicions that British spies were active during the Scottish independence referendum campaign and will treat nationalist politicians as a special case.

      From MI5’s own website:

      “What we do

      MI5 protects the UK against threats to national security

      The role of the MI5, as defined in the Security Service Act 1989, is “the protection of national security and in particular its protection against threats such as terrorism, espionage and sabotage, the activities of agents of foreign powers, and from actions intended to overthrow or undermine parliamentary democracy by political, industrial or violent means”.

      Our work is guided by the Government’s overall strategy to counter threats to the UK’s national security.”

      And there it is: “… to counter threats to the UK’s national security”

      And what bigger threat than the end of the UK iself as an entity, so, of course MI5 and others from the UK’s security apparatus viewed the Scottish referendum as a major threat to its ‘national security’. It would be the height of naivety to believe that MI5 were not active in doing ‘whatever it takes’ to ensure the UK ie Westminster and the British Establishment achieved the ‘correct’ outcome.

      We all know what was done to undermine the Yes campaign. What is not known – as yet – is *what else* was done.

      The result itself? Hhhmmm, well mibbeez aye, mibeez naw. Will we ever know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? It would be nice to believe we will. But the British ‘machine’ is a well-oiled and well-practiced thing that has been operating covertly for a long time. It knows how to cover its dirty, filthy tracks.

      By the way, what’s happening with the enquiry into Ruth Davidson admitting on TV that postal vote sampling had, illegally, taken place pre-referendum? Anything? Why is it taking so long? Has it been dropped? Whatever, should there ever be a conclusion, we can be assured it will be the ‘right’ one – for the British Establishment.

    156. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. MI5. Would that be the same organisation that thought preventing embarrassment to the Government was more important than protecting innocent children from the depravities of pedophile rapists in Government and the wider Establishment? I suppose such compromised ‘high-ranking’ individuals probably gave the security services a good bit of leverage.

      Who was behind PIE?

    157. Fireproofjim says:

      Re next referendum. Never mind if it is 2018 or 2020. The time to hold it is when all the opinion polls say we have at least 55% of the vote. I think that is coming.

    158. Rock says:

      At a recent Oxford debate:

      “The sun couldn’t set on the British empire, because even god couldn’t trust the English in the dark.”

      Not my words before anyone starts attacking me for “anti English comments”

      I am sure the English refers to the establishment rather than the plebs.

    159. @tartanpigsy

      Playing nicey nicey won’t win so we rig it in our favour. Dictatorship your preferred option then, that is Uk think?

    160. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Rock.

      For decades, I’ve believed that the Scots have a sense of humour. It would seem that latter day Scots have had an extraction of the humour gland – well, if your input with reference to fellow Wingers is asny example.

      Do you not recognise when you’re being wound up by superior intellects?

      I leave you to think on…

    161. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      ‘asny’ = ‘any’.

    162. Paula Rose says:

      Hi Rock – seeing as you are up and the thread seems to have run it’s course. What is it you want to discuss?

    163. Rock says:


      “1 is when, I think 2020 best and more winnable than 2018 due to obvious Britfest that will be taking place.”

      What about 2017, after England votes No and Scotland votes Yes to remain in the EU?

      For the sake of the 30% elderly who voted Yes and have been independence supporters for a long time, we must have independence sooner rather than later.

      And of course before the poorer younger generation is crushed completely by Labour supported Tory austerity.

    164. @Lesley-Anne

      Ta only a muddle could represent one half of a muddle. Only politicians have the power to break up areas to suit their political ends of breaking up communities to weaken them.

    165. Lesley-Anne says:

      Who is up for a wee bit of a shocker?

      I know it’s late but hey come on you know you are. 😉

      The Trussell Trust invited the WRONG M.P. to open their food bank in Dumfries on Friday! 😀

      Here is a map from the Scottish Boundary Commission that clearly shows Fluffy’s constituency, Dumfries, Clydesdale and Tweeddale to the EAST of the BLUE line.

      If you zoom right in you can see a light GREY road going from Whitesands to the right almost parrallel to Buccleuch Street. This street is Friars Vennel where the APEX Centre is. In fact the APEX CEntre is just about on the corner of Friar’s Vennel and Irish Street.

    166. Paula Rose says:

      btw suggest using the notify tick box – makes debate easier.

    167. Joemcg says:

      Lesley-one of the zoomers called the Mundell protesters today Sep Stormtroopers. May the force be with you! Dal-Riata,I have always been suspicious of the result,the unionists smugness at 10.01pm and especially with the mood of the country changing immediately after leading up to the SNP landslide seems to confirm something was amiss. The only seed of doubt was at the stalls campaigning revealing a lot of no voters. It was roughly 50/50 the days I was working them.

    168. Rock says:


      “As much as it pains me to say it I couldn’t agree more but that said we also have some of the smartest and in the end they will prevail and we will be a nation again shot of the shit that is the British establishment”

      The British Establishment will never let them prevail with their “softly softly” approach.

      I want a Ghandi style non-violent non cooperation campaign starting in 2017.

      Sooner EVEL comes in, the sooner we can start.

    169. Lesley-Anne says:

      Aye Joe the force was certainly with us. It must have been something to do with all the Brasso that was hanging around waiting to be used on a certain brass neck! 😀

    170. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “Hi Rock – seeing as you are up and the thread seems to have run it’s course. What is it you want to discuss?”

      Your response to Ken500 on the previous thread:

      “The Greens are untrustworthy. The Greens renege on their own policies. They collude with Unionists/Landowners and are funded (secretly) by them to prevent land coming back into public use. They prevent the predestrianisation of City centres, and waste £Millions/Billions of public money which could be better spent. Against the majority wishes and against the public interest. People are protesting in the streets. The Greens/Unionists brief the Press with lies and get any objectors arrested, finger printed, swabbed and threatened with the cells.”

    171. Rock says:

      Brian Doonthetoon,

      “Do you not recognise when you’re being wound up by superior intellects?”

      I know Paula Rose wants to reduce this site to superior intellects winding up inferior posters.

      And you have completely fallen for it.

      This site is about the serious issue of Scottish independence.

      Why don’t you do the winding up when you meet personally and leave it out of this site?

    172. xShuggy says:

      I’m still struggling with the thought that the opening of a foodbank is treated like that of a new business enterprise. Jeez, what next, dancing maidens scattering rose petals along the high street to the strains of a jolly trad jazz band?

      Sorry folks, it turns my stomach.

    173. Paula Rose says:

      @ Rock

      Ken500 is making points about the SGP in Aberdeen – that is a whole story in itself, I do understand Ken500’s point of view but it would take a whole thread to explain both sides.

      I really do not understand your visceral hatred of Green policies – perhaps you could elucidate.

      To accuse me of reducing or whatever is just plain silly – we are all part of this site – but so far instead of welcoming people you have driven them away. As a newcomer here are you proud of that?

    174. heedtracker says: is usual dreary far right hatchet man tweester, Andrew Neil’s mini me.

      If SLabour really are no longer any opposition to Sturgeon maybe its not so bad having rule Britannia media goons relentlessly monstering Scottish democracy. He’s far right UKOK for sure but could it be kennyfarq really is a socialist worker at the Times, that loves stuff like fox hunting but even so?

      Kenny Farquharson ?@KennyFarq Jul 8
      Wow. New national living wage of £9 an hour. Fucking hell. A real coup for Osborne. Impressive. #budget2015
      8 retweets 2 favorites

      Fluffie hid behind that toryboy living wage shyste today aswell as he tried to sneak out the back door but none of the UKOK hacks like this git said it wont be for another 5 years.

      Even so its nice to see these guys so happy about something in their Scotland region.

    175. Marco McGinty says:

      “I’m still struggling with the thought that the opening of a foodbank is treated like that of a new business enterprise. Jeez, what next, dancing maidens scattering rose petals along the high street to the strains of a jolly trad jazz band?
      Sorry folks, it turns my stomach.”

      I would have to agree with that. The “grand openings” of foodbanks fills me with disgust, and when you watch the footage of Mundell when he was interviewed, he was desperately trying to stop himself from smiling.

      Really, there’s not much more to say.

    176. Dave McEwan Hill says:


      “1 is when, I think 2020 best and more winnable than 2018 due to obvious Britfest that will be taking place.”

      There are a couple of false premises always trotted out by those who wish us to wait till after we have lost the present momentum.

      The most glaring of these is that you win elections waiting for your opponents to die.
      You win elections by changing peoples minds, no matter what age they are.

      Better Together know this. They will be working on our young YES vote all the time.
      I can see no reason to give them six years to wean them away from supporting independence.
      If we persuade our elderly that we are self supporting we win now

      I have never felt a better time to make plans for a second referendum as soon as possible – as long as we supervise it

    177. dakk says:

      Rock and Paula

      This site offers therapy to thousands who may vent their spleen,make funny jokes,(unfunny in my case) all in a context of pursuit of Scottish Independence.

      We all have our own foibles and hangups,and should cut each other a bit of slack as the ultimate goal is far more important than our own individual personality differences.

    178. Chic McGregor says:

      Said it before and I’ll say it again.

      If there is no possibility of an indy 2 in the SNP manifesto for 2016 and they win, independence is finished. The Brit machine will ensure their cuts will be laid at the feet of the SNP.

      I think that is obvious to a lot of folk, but perhaps not through the tribalistic and hubris specs of the SNP political professionals. Hope that is not the case and may well not be.

      If there is no indy2 on offer, in many ways it would be better if Labour, or a triple tory alliance won in Scotland instead.

      The biggest enemy of Scottish independence is the over population of England.

    179. Karmanaut says:

      Someone should invite Fluffy to the funerals of Scots who die because of his party’s welfare policies.

    180. Lesley-Anne says:

      O.K. peeps calling all night owls out there. 😉

      Who amongst our intelligencia on here is up to date on their constituency rules?

      I was talking with Tris over on Munguin’s and he thinks that M.P.’s are not supposed to carry out functions in other M.P.’s constituencies. I hope this is correct,can anyone confirm this?

      I’m thinking with the wee slip up by Fluffy on Friday he has just landed himself in a wee bit of hot water. 😀

    181. Effijy says:

      What on earth are the Trussell Trust Thinking about by asking
      one of the rats along that caused this plague of Food Banks?

      Sorry but they have had their last donation from me if they
      have money to waste laying on a buffet for a Tory bully boy who earns circa £120K before he takes his expenses and other business
      activities into account.

      Do the Trussell Trust know about SNP MPs using their pay increase
      to fund charitable causes, while the Tories fill their own pockets? Which party would you invite that can offer empathy?
      “The Ragged Politician who trousered £120K and got pissed”

    182. CamernoB Brodie says:

      Chic McGregor
      Perhaps sustainably spatially organized rather than overpopulated?

    183. Lesley-Anne says:

      To be fair Effjy I was prepared to give the Trussell Trust the benefit of the doubt, being the Village Idiot and all. However, now that I know they *ahem* claim to invite the local M.P. along to open their foodbanks and I have now confirmed Mundell’s constituency stops SHORT of where the foodbank is I have serious doubts about the Trussell Trust.

      I know folks are saying that obviously Trussell Trust invited Fluffy because of the *cough* interest that his appearance would generate but really this goes against the TT idea of inviting the LOCAL M.P.

      Further from what I read over on Munguin’s Tris appears to think that M.P.’s should not carry out functions in the constituency of another M.P. I tend to believe this is right so not only have TT screwed up on the constituency M.P. but Fluffy MUST have known he was intruding on Richard Arkless’s constituency.

      I’m hoping someone can confirm the idea about M.P.’s and functions in neighbouring constituencies. I think yet again Fluffy has put his foot in his over sized mouth yet again with this TT stunt.

    184. BuckieBraes says:

      @Chic McGregor

      ‘If there is no possibility of an indy 2 in the SNP manifesto for 2016 and they win, independence is finished.’

      I’ll put it another way: if the SNP fails to fight Holyrood 2016 on its fundamental aim, it will be playing under UKOK rules; and Scotland then faces ultimately losing by these, even though the SNP gains ‘power’.

      Independence is then, indeed, finished.

    185. Thepnr says:

      Never forget

      There are some among us who wish to wind us up, that’s their job. Ignore them, they don’t like it up them eh!

    186. Lesley-Anne says:

      Thepnr says:

      Never forget

      There are some among us who wish to wind us up, that’s their job. Ignore them, they don’t like it up them eh!

      Oh I dunno Thepnr I thought Fluffy quite enjoyed it up himself on Friday courtesy of a few *ahem* individuals. 😀

    187. beachthistle says:

      @Juteman I really like your suggestion of a Greek-style snap referendum:

      “The SNP should ‘do a Greece’, but not bottle it.
      Hold a referendum, with the question along the lines of’ Should we implement the Tory cuts, or should we decide ourselves how to manage our own economy?’”

      …although my instinct (on the basis that you should always try to do what your opponents least expect – and/or want!) is to make full Indy the alternative.

      Some reasons”

      – a normal length campaign for a second ‘standard’ Indy referendum will play into Propagandic Quay and dirty-trickster hands.

      – any attempt to get anything as ‘strong’ (even though it was roundly ignored and breached by UK/BT) as the Edinburgh Agreement will be thwarted/refused by UK/WM. If we try to play by their ‘rules’ we will probably lose again.

      – having the question specifically mention Tory cuts would focus peoples’ minds on one of our opponents’ most vulnerable issues.

      – there are no obvious candidates who would/could lead/front-up an unexpected and abrupt No/BT campaign.

      Ok, we can predict the MSM apoplectic and vitriolic reaction, but so what? – the MSM are already waging (and will continue to wage) a propaganda war against us regarding phoney/trumped-up scenarios and deploying endless straw-man arguments so why not fight the MSM about something real and worth the time and effort it takes?

      It is the right time for SNP et al to be proactive and brave, to wrong-foot the Establishment: there is the positive momentum of the GE results and the 56 obviously outflanking Labour re being the ‘real’ opposition; Labour ( both UK-wide and their fake Scotch branch) are in disarray; the wide (beyond Yes voters) unpopularity of the cuts, Mundell and WM’s anti-Scottish tactics and antics.

      In short, an optimum time to be brave and go for it!

    188. Ken500 says:

      Greedy, lying, hypocrites on 6 figure remuneration refuse to pay £20 a week to stop children starving.

    189. Al Dossary says:

      Re the Trussell Trust – Do some digging about these shysters.

      This so called charity charges £1500 initial set up fees and £350 per year fees for each and every food bank they are involved with (445 of them according to their website). Also reports the director Chris Mould and his wife were receiving up to £150k per year in salary and rental from them.

      Whilst I do not wish to detract from the work done by their volunteers, the Trussell Trust strikes me as being the Wotherspoons of the food bank world.

      Inviting Mundell was in my opinion nothing bit a way to get free advertising through massive media exposure – which it did. No doubt the right wing press will at some point try to say that this is back to the days of “SNP rent-a-mob”.

    190. Effie says:

      If there isn’t a successful referendum or gaining of independence in a handful of years there will be little left to save. Scorched earth tactics by WM will mean Scotland will make Greece now look like a boom town paradise. Debt and poverty will bind and choke Scotland as sure as anything else. The future generations of hopeless ingrained poverty and depression will lead to ruin. Independence will be kicked into the generational long grass whereby only the current spring chickens will be around to remember and speak of recent events if there ever is another one.

      Unless indy or some other miracle happens to Scotland or the UK I expect Scotland (and others outside of the favoured areas in the UK) to sink. Badly. Eventually leading either to increasing austerity and poverty controlled with a surveillance state and harsh justice or riots and the ensuing chaos and unpredictability for the future that such things bring. Spend enough time reading history, economics and monetary issues deeply enough and it becomes obvious that you can’t put pressure on forever without something cracking eventually. You only need to look ahead on a path to see where it goes, but sadly so many grown adults spend all their time looking at their own feet or three feet in front of them at best. If that never changes it spells doom.

    191. Effie says:

      @Al Dossary

      No surprise. All large scale charities end up like this, in my experience – and I’ve seen the top management of enough. No names, of course. This is what happens when they become more businesses than about doing the most good for the public or humanity that they can…y’know, charity and all that. It’s best to assume the worst until proven otherwise beyond all reasonable doubt.

    192. Dorothy Devine says:

      I’m with all those who think ” opening” a foodbank is not a cause for celebration – and asking some overpaid , over weight reprobate to do so has put me off supporting my local Trussel establishments.

      Lesley Ann , well done to you and all the others who made it a tad awkward for Mr Mundell – what a beamer he should have!

      You’d think that some comfy ,well off slob might use the heid and refuse such a venue opening – there sure as hell should be no pride in foodbank opening only unmitigated SHAME.

    193. CameronB Brodie says:

      Chic McGregor
      I meant unsustainable spatial organisation, of course. The center (the south), is choked and regularly ‘overheats’, whilst the periphery is starved of investment, not least because of interest rates being set in response to condition in the center.

    194. ronnie anderson says:

      Mundell opening a Foodbank.

      This is just another example of the Trussell Trust being used (ie Jim Murphy) they wont be opening any Independantly run Foodbanks.

      Shame on the People who invited him.

      Trussell Charity is sponcered by the UK gov, therefore do as their told.

    195. Ken500 says:

      Well done to all the protesters. Food banks that support Tories politicians? Thanks for calling that one out.

    196. Robert Louis says:

      Wow, just finished reading Mark Franklands piece on the Trussell trust and their move into Dumfries, which already has an efficient food bank, run locally.

      People now understand why the low life Tory (who causes starvation for the people of Scotland) Mundell was invited to open it.

      No money or help for me for the Trussell trust anymore. It is just a big cah cow for those in charge at Trussell.

      Getting a bit sick of the behaviour of most of the charities, over the last few weeks, we have seen RNIB (Scotland) effectively closed in Scotland, and taken over by the London office of its English counterpart (against the wishes of those in Scotland). The charity Asthma UK, is also planning to close its Scottish base (against the wishes of Scottish health professionals), despite healthcare in Scotland being completely devolved, and organised in a completely different way to down in London.

      They say it’s ‘about efficiency’. Well, let’s see, why not move the london HQ to Scotland, the costs will be around a third or less of those in London. But of course, efficiency isn’t really what it is about.

      Politically motivated? Oh, you bet.

      (make sure you support genuinely SCOTTISH charities, such as chest,heart and stroke, or SSPCA etc..)

    197. Indigo says:

      It’s worth reading further than than just that article to get an overview of the remarkable work that First Base does. They’re much more than a food bank, they’re a genuine safety net in a way the TT just couldn’t be.

      Remember too Mundell has publicly criticised / disregarded Mark because he was a Yes supporter. Unpleasant stuff. Can’t help but wonder who initiated TT moving into Dumfries, who benefits from First Base losing its profile and authority to comment on rural poverty as the only food bank in the area?

    198. Ken500 says:

      Cameron/Osbourne lied to win an election. EVEL (standing orders) not passed in HoL or Commons.

      Everyone in Dumfries/Scotland now knows which food bank to support. Any publicity is not good publicity, especially if it’s for a Tory/Unionist politician. People making profit out of poverty have been called out.

    199. John Morris says:

      Re Trussell. I am a volunteer in a Community Foodbank in North Lanarkshire fully staffed by non-paid volunteers. Recently Trussell approached us and made a cash offer to buy us out. Question is why would they do this? Do they think they could better serve the people who need our help or are the making a business out of the plight of those sanctioned by the DHSS? I am glad to say they were sent on their way.

      Our Foodbank has had a very good arrangement with the local Asda and Tesco Stores who allow donations to be collected within their Stores. Recently Trussell were allowed to collect in the Tesco store despite the fact they have no Foodbank in the town. I believe the shoppers were unaware that their donations were not for our Foodbank.

      In an article in Friday’s National Gregg Russell quotes Euan Gurr ( Trussell Scottish Manager ) as saying- “While we disagree (with Mundell) it is a respectful disagreement and will be making our points absolutely clear when we speak on Friday” RESPECTFUL disagreement !!!!!

      What is respectful about people being having to come to foodbanks because the heinous actions of Mundell’s government? This made my blood boil.
      In no way am I criticising the volunteers like myself who work in the Trussell foodbanks but I think people should be made aware of Trussell’s methods as they are taking advantage of the disadvantaged by making a business of foodbanks.

    200. Robert Kerr says:

      O/T completely but a confession.

      I visited the Bannockburn Battle Site yesterday and confess to being a tad “Blood and Soil” Nationalist.

    201. Grouse Beater says:

      Robert: I visited the Bannockburn Battle site

      You’ve joined the hordes celebrated that bicentenary of the Battle of Waterloo, media and all, so no shame there.

    202. I have constantly heard this argument coming from both Labour and the Tories about the Scottish should using the powers it already has to mitigate the impact of
      Westminster austerity and cuts.

      As the Scottish Government’s budget is being reduced there is never any mention from these unionists as to where
      this additional money is to be found in order to mitigate the worst excesses of Westminster’s cuts.

      Well its about time that these unionists were challenged at every opportunity to explain where they suggest the money is to come from and who are the ones that going to ending up paying higher taxes or any increases in services charges.

    203. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Kerr
      That was a bit of a show stopper of a comment Robert. 🙂

      I think there is a lot of misconception about what “blood and soil” is all about. The film “Blut und Bolden” was a Nazi propaganda film that exploited Germany’s crippling economic hardships, combining it with a mythologised bucolic idealism/ethnic nationalism. Even so, I think the message it presents has very tenuous links to the indy movement.

      Sorry, you may want to destroy your computer after watching.

      Blut und Boden (1933)

      What it does put me in mind of though is this, one of the key drivers behind the UK’s social reform movement, IMO.

      Ancient Rome and the Town and Country Debate from the 1850s to the 1920s

    204. cearc says:

      Robert Kerr,

      ‘… a tad “Blood and Soil” Nationalist.’

      I hear it can be a bit muddy and easy to slip over. Not on your nice light suit, I hope.

    205. Sorry for the typos in my last post.

      As for the transfer of tax powers to Scotland that was always the trap that had been devised by the unionists
      as part of the devolution settlement.

      This is why Lib/Lab coalition Scottish executive at Holyrood never used the so called “Tartan Tax” because any money raised by it would have been deducted from the Scottish Block grant.

      If they had done so they would never have been able to credibly explain to the people of Scotland why they would be paying higher taxes than people in England and seeing no improvements to their public services.

      And this situation will not change until our country gains its independence

    206. braghadeanach says:

      Lets get moving with a land tax. Due of Buccleuch has enough spare to fund the no campaign. Donald Houston from Ardnamurchan likewise. The SNP are moving too slowly and cautiously. Get on with it!!

    207. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      This is the Dundee foodbank for which we, Team YES Bus, collect food and donations.

    208. Ken500 says:

      Scotland will reverse Tory cuts by having another Referendum and voting for Independence.

      Mundell on £1/4Million (of other people’s money) and other high earners in the rest of the UK, will not pay £20 a week to stop children starving.

    209. The Moidart says:

      There once was a”man” called Mundell.
      His party puts Scotland through hell.
      He went to Dumfries.
      Stole some tea and a piece.
      He’s no more than the end of a bell!!!!

    210. The Moidart says:

      Then came the bold Leslieanne.
      Of Dave be assured she’s no fan.
      He avoided her stare.
      And he got out of there.
      Like only a filthy rat can.

    211. Lesley-Anne says:

      On behalf of the *ahem* FEW at Dumfries yesterday I’d love to think our wee *cough* professional protest was the cause for Fluffy to do a runner from the APEX Centre via the back door. However, thanks to Tris over on Munguin’s I think this is the real reason he did a runner. 😀

      I have no idea who asked the question but serious congratulations on getting Mark Frankland’s long standing charity *ahem* shoved in the face of Fluffy! 🙂

    212. Lesley-Anne says:

      BRiiliant Moidart! 😀 😀 😀

      You do realise that you have just increased the size of my already over grown head with that second verse don’t you? 😛

      After yesterday’s wee daunter my partner says my head is grown immeasurably and it won’t fit through the front door … of course she was right. 😉

      We had to borrow a set of ladders so I could climb up to the living room window and enter our appartment that way … after she opened the windows first of all you understand! 😀

      Now that you have immortalised me in your wee poem there is a great fear, mostly by my partner, that my head will grow even bigger now! 😀

    213. The Moidart says:

      Lesley_Anne.. Glad you liked it. I believe that you may be right about the inflated cranium. I saw you wink earlier… And I’m in Glasgow!!! Lol
      ? only kidding. I only wish I i only wish I could have joined you there yesterday to remind the russet toupe that they ain’t gonna get it all their own way. . And I sincerely hope you can make it to Glasgow on Saturday. You and the rest of the Dumfries dozens. Ps… Never wear a skirt climbing through upstairs windows Lesley_Anne.. I speak from experience… Lol. I hope you and your partner have a lovely wee weekend. Many thanks. Xx

    214. The Moidart says:

      P.S…. Apparently Mundane , Carbuncle, Bameron and Bawsborne are supporting The prodigy at the Glasgow Hydro on November 23rd… Public enemy!!!! Lol

    215. cearc says:


      Does anyone have a picture of the buffet lunch?

      It would be interesting to see what a Trussell Trust Foodbank think is appropriate for them to give a person on a six figure salary.

    216. Robert Kerr says:

      Have no fear cearc. My “Man from Del Monte” uniform was changed for a combat issue Waffen-SS Sturmfuhrer one.

      As befitting a true cybertnatz.

    217. Jack Murphy says:

      I wonder if Mr Mundell managed time to take a few Selfies when he was opening his Bettertogether Foodbank. He has the equipment at taxpayers expense. 🙁

    218. frogesque says:

      @ Lesley-Anne:

      Well done for the effort at Dumfries. Now perhaps Fluffy Bubblehead will get the idea that hardship is more than settling for a bottle of Bolly rather than Krug 1928

    219. Lesley-Anne says:

      cearc says:


      Does anyone have a picture of the buffet lunch?

      It would be interesting to see what a Trussell Trust Foodbank think is appropriate for them to give a person on a six figure salary.

      Here you go Cearc, drool yourself silly over this wee lot! 😀

      frogesque says:

      @ Lesley-Anne:

      Well done for the effort at Dumfries. Now perhaps Fluffy Bubblehead will get the idea that hardship is more than settling for a bottle of Bolly rather than Krug 1928

      There is a one in a million chance that he may just have got the idea Frog, I still have my doubts even at these odds Frog, but I pretty certain his *ahem* driver didn’t!

    220. a supporter says:

      “all that remains now is to wait for the axe to fall.”

      The axe is not going to fall because the SNP is well aware of what the Tories AND Labour and its sycophants in the MSM are doing. And while it is good that you keep highlighting these tactics you really need to stop repeating that the SNP will fall into the Tory/Labour trap. It won’t.

    221. cearc says:


      No link for the suitably austere fare?

    222. Lesley-Anne says:

      cearc says:


      No link for the suitably austere fare?

      Tell what Cearc … I’ll try that again shall I? 😀

    223. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “I really do not understand your visceral hatred of Green policies – perhaps you could elucidate.”

      A hatred of their politics not policies.

      The politics that allowed the Tory viceroy of Scotland to be re-elected as an MP.

      THe politics of Scottish Green leader Patrick Harvey advising the sole Green MP to against the SNP at Westminster.

      Their policies are fine in theory – the middle classes who use far more than their fair share of resources can afford to support them – as long as they are not implemented at their expense.

      Your problem is patronising and if that fails making personal attacks on those who have different views than yours.

      Defend your point of view and attack mine instead of making stupid remarks.

      Whether not having children will help save the planet is debatable, but what about keeping pets instead? They too are a drag on the planet’s limited resources.

    224. Rock says:

      Paula Rose,

      “but so far instead of welcoming people you have driven them away.”

      Do you mean your pal Natasha?

      She left the site in a huff after accusing the Rev. Stuart Campbell of being “ill-educated”:


      “I can do without transphobic comments from ill-educated people.”

      Get your facts right.

    225. Rock says:

      Dave McEwan Hill,

      “If we persuade our elderly that we are self supporting we win now”

      There is a better chance of pigs flying than the vast majority of the 70% elderly British Nationalists who voted No ever voting Yes to Scottish independence.

      And before you trot out your canvassing argument, canvassing was pointing to a decisive Yes despite Project Fear.

      These are not soft Nos, they are shy Nos like the shy Tories who cannot admit to voting Tory.

    226. WRH2 says:

      Regarding charities and their treatment of Scotland, we have another example in St Abbs with the RNLI having decided to close the station there. They refuse to listen to anyone. Calum Kerr SNP MP, Paul Wheelshouse MSP who lives locally, not to mention the crew of the lifeboat who have given years of service.

    227. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      just an idea…

      The supporters of St Abbs’ lifeboat set up a crowdfunder, to set up the Scottish Independent Lifeboat Association (SILA), a registered charity.

      SILA’s first remit is to preserve the existence of the St Abbs facility but could keep a watching brief on whatever else happens, lifeboat-wise, in Scotland.

      As I typed, just an idea that flashed through my mind.

    228. donald anderson says:

      What a Lab-Con bloody mess
      Independence nothing less.
      On to Victoree.

      By oppression’s woes and pains
      They will drain our dearest veins
      Cos we’se urny free.

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