The tin-eared soldier
Vince Cable, who was once apparently some sort of politician, took it upon himself to issue an opinion yesterday on the subject of referendums that had independence supporters on social media hooting with mocking laughter long into the night.
The estimable Wee Ginger Dug has already dealt adroitly with just the 300 or so most obviously ridiculous aspects of Cable’s tone-deaf and spectacularly hypocritical view, so we won’t step on his paws by repeating them here.
Instead we thought we’d do what we do best, and check the facts.
Switzerland has two types of referendum: the first is legislative referendums, where the public makes a decision on laws brought forward by the parliament so long as 50,000 people object within 100 days of the new law being announced.
The second type, and the ones most relevant to Scotland’s situation, are constitutional referendums, which are a vehicle by which citizens can suggest their own changes to the constitution, so long as they can gather the signed backing of at least 100,000 people within an 18-month period.
(Switzerland has a population of 8.4m of whom somewhere in the region of 5m can vote – although typically only about half actually do – so that’s less than 2%.)
Switzerland does indeed conduct a lot of referendums – 550 in the last 170 years, or over three a year. We’ve been going through the list for quite some time now, and here’s the thing: we haven’t been able to find a SINGLE example anywhere in those 550 where there was a “confirmatory vote” afterwards.
Now, we must confess we haven’t checked all 550. But the most likely explanation for our failure to find one is because that simply isn’t how the Swiss system works at all.
In legislative referendums, if a simple majority of the public rejects the government’s proposed law it gets cancelled and that’s that. There are no do-overs.
In the constitutional referendums, meanwhile, a “double majority” is required, but that doesn’t mean there are two votes. It means that both a majority of the popular vote and a majority of the Swiss equivalent of council areas (called cantons) are required.
So if there was an independence referendum in Scotland under the Swiss system, and 53% of individual voters said Yes, but only 14 of Scotland’s 32 council areas had voted in favour (with, let’s say, a Yes vote in heavily-populated Glasgow outnumbering No votes in Highland and Orkney), then the vote would fail because only one of the two required majorities had been achieved.
(Switzerland in fact only gives some of its 26 cantons half a vote, but it’s not decided by population size so let’s not make this any more complicated than it has to be.)
To be honest we’re quite surprised that Unionists haven’t put this forward as an idea already. It’s less crudely and objectionably dictatorial than a blanket “now is not the time” refusal, but would still make independence significantly harder to win in a way that’s at least moderately tricky for Yes supporters to oppose on democratic grounds.
Of course, adopting the Swiss method would open up a massive can of worms for the UK government, which regularly passes laws backed by only a third of voters or even fewer thanks to our crooked First Past The Post electoral system, which has been opposed by Vince Cable’s party since its inception but which they infamously bottled their only chance to fix back in 2010 after being bought off with some ministerial cars in order to pursue their more important policy priorities.
(A craven betrayal for which voters rewarded them by reducing them from 57 seats to just eight in the next election.)
And perhaps more pertinently, it would obviously have also scuppered the Brexit vote, because only two of the UK’s four constituent nations voted Leave.
So a Swiss-style referendum on independence may well be a non-starter. But if it did happen, and Yes won it, no confirmatory vote would be required. Vince Cable, as he’s done so often in the past, is trying to get away with telling Scotland a big fat lie.
Cable not connected resulting in no vision.
What else is new?
The trickle of ‘how the f**k do we stop Scotland leaving’ quotes from UK political parties is growing, matched by a torrent of hypocrisy.
The man is delusional or senile. Take your pick, but he is a moron.
Yesterday’s man trying for the limelight and the only reason it is given space is it suits the Unionist cause perfectly. Every newspaper and broadcaster is guaranteed to report it.
A bit like The Herald today where the Unionist letter writing cabal are out in force.
Vince Cable should stick to Meerkat impersonations!
Lying Democrats
Lib Dem hypocrisy knows few bounds.
In 2011 they had an absolutely crushing defeat in their AV referendum on proportional representation that they’d secured as part of their coalition agreement with the Tories.
Having lost, they then stuck it straight back into their manifesto for the very next Westminster election in 2015 (page 132).
Yet the SNP, according to the Lib Dems, shouldn’t keep pursuing independence after the 2014 independence was lost (very narrowly).
Because, well, Lib Dem reasons…
Not sure what you mean here, Rev: “…so that’s less than 2%”
If 2.5m (half of 5m) are voting, surely that’s 29% of 8.4m? (I’m guessing I’ve wrongly picked up what you’re saying here).
Bottom line— Liberal or not, he is first and foremost a Unionist, and like every other Unionist he will try to thwart indy by any means he can. I sense fear.
Bloody lies everywhere and the vast majority come from the Britnat politicians and the Britnat media.
As usual, the BBC promotes this opinion as based on fact with no question as it suits their usual Scotland=shite narrative.
The LibDems have caused the mess in collusion with the Tories. Total hypocrites. Student fees liars. There was a AV Ref. A big NO turnout. FPTP is the most popular. The 3rd rate losers can be voted out. Or an electoral system voters do not understand. The Electoral system changed in Scotland to favour unionists. 3x. To try to keep the most popular Party out.
As WGD says, IndyRef2 IS a “confirmatory referendum” where we will assess the Unionist promises made in IndyRef1. I think we know and THEY know how we’ll vote in IndyRef2. And you know what–THEY only have THEMSELVES to blame for backsliding on their own promises. Hell slap it into them. That’s what happens you lie to the electorate–they catch up with you eventually.
Vince Cable should spend his days gardening or doing something useful, what he thinks is of no concern to most Scottish people, he also needs re-educated on the make up of the United Kingdom, does the word Union not even convey to him that there is more than one, and its not Sussex and Wessex. Time to settle down in retirement Vince and perhaps study the history of the British Isles.
Mr Cable and that other serial intervener Mr Brown, can (politely) fuck off now.
I really don’t think Scotland’s population have anything to learn on politics or morality from either of them. Also? I really don’t think we can stand much more of their ‘interventions’ and fortune cookie wisdom. When it comes to the practice of politics and the ideological distances between them? (Otherwise known as who makes the most outrageous and twisted hypocrite?) It’s actually down to the level of splitting atoms. Even fag papers would be considered too hefty for bridging that gap.
Weary of the backstabbery, the manipulation, the faux outrage and faux moral soapboxes they stand on. Moral soapboxes supplied (weary laugh) by a media industry every bit as twisted and hypocritical as they are.
Neither of course, will own their share of responsibility for this biblical omnishambles. Not personally and not as representatives of a system and practice of politics that has been proven to be totally beyond redemption. How and ever, they will intervene. Mainly with a big fanfare and there may be a carpet and a cadre of handy clickers involved to fawn over their every word. Okay, maybe not so much fawing in Cable’s example.
Bear in mind this is before you even get started on the practices of their respective parties. In short? They and their politics have done more than enough damage to people’s lives tbh. Listening to epic bumtrumpets like Messrs Cable and Broon are why we are where we are today.
What really grates, is their idea of the daily practice of politics. The sheer volume of lies, misrepresentations, smearing, misdirection and manipulation deployed as ‘just how it is done’ (see under Frenchgate).
We deserve better than this. We can do better and we can be better. We’re both the employer and the end user. It’s about time we let them and what is probably the most incompetent, shambolic and venal Conservative government of the post war era know that little factoid.
Oh dear, it’s back to the old joke isn’t it. “how do you know when a Libdem is lying, his lips Move”.
In the words of Bugs Bunny, ” What a maroon”. Jeez oh.
Vince Cable – British colonialist, living his life faking sincerity, while lying about being a democrat.
“If 2.5m (half of 5m) are voting, surely that’s 29% of 8.4m? (I’m guessing I’ve wrongly picked up what you’re saying here).”
Yes. Yes you have.
Macart @ 11.28. Well said Sam, sums up exactly how I feel too, only you can say it more eloquently than I could. Thank you.
Vince Cable proposes IndyRef3.0
luckily he wont be elected in Scotland and has no mandate.
” … Vince Cable, as he’s done so often in the past, is trying to get away with telling Scotland a big fat lie.”
Yes but Vince is a LibDem. The most useless, insignificant & irrelevant unionist part of the Westminster Establishment.
As a LibDem it is expected of him to follow the long established party line so well demonstrated by Alistair Carmichael who was found guilty in court of lying but established the precedent that even when ruled guilty in court it is expected of LibDems in particular, but Westminster unionists in general, to be liars.
There is, of course, exceptions to all rules. This particular exception is that all SNP Members of Parliament must always be categorised as liars even when proven not to be actually lying – but that’s Westminster politics for you.
I consider the importance of anything issued by the Libdems to be categorised under the following :
Vince Cable – Willie Rennie – Wet Fart, which is the most slimy glob of waste.
So-far I have it as a “draw”.
Tuition fees. Where was the confirmatory vote to say it’s okay you don’t need to scrap them anyway you lying bunch of torags?
BritNats, always neck deep in hypocrisy and totally blind to irony. They just can’t help themselves, it’s in their genes.
I have to say that Lib Dems are frequently a party I forget exits and was surprised recently to find out that Vince was leader. It briefly crossed my mind “when did that happen?”
Then I realised I didn’t actually care.
I’m not sure why the LibDems think the SNP should get behind another EU referendum, after all they didn’t support the first one. And even with 56 of the 59 Scottish MP’s at Westminster (only one Scottish MP voted for the referendum as far as I’m aware) we were still forced to take part.
If only one MP supported this last time and it still happened why would he need the SNP to support it now when there is less of them. Unless he sees the chance to use this tactic to tie Scotland into the union, ‘you supported the vote, you must accept the outcome’ logic.
Well said Rev and well said Macart. I DESPISE the Brit Nat parties and all they stand for.
I once went to a talk by Sir Vince Cable when he was promoting his book “Free Radical”. Someone in the audience asked him what had happened to the money which no longer resided in banks after the Financial Crisis.
Sir Vince Cable, the great eonomics guru, ex economist of Shell, replied that the money had just “disappeared”.
Like snow off a dyke, billions had just melted away and now we tax payers had to donate billions to bail out the banks. We have lived in austerity ever since. Our public assets have been sold off to pay down the debt, some of them sold by Sir Vince Cable himself.
Thanks Sir Vince Cable, but I don’t think we’ll be taking any more advice from you on anything of any importance.
i didn’t buy the book BTW.
One hopes the SNP do NOT fall into the trap of agreeing to support a second people’s vote because the unscrupulous method always adopted by chancers such as Cable will be :
You agreed to a second people’s vote on final deal EU so why not a second people’s vote on deal with UK.
Remember they have constantly cast up the much misconstrued ,via context , “once in a generation vote” re Indy Ref so would have no qualms re USING and ABUSING absolutely ANYTHING to deter Scotland leaving UK.
Cable , who is standing down next year as Lib Dem leader, and who currently leads a minority of MP’s at WM thinks he can dictate terms in a matter, that come next Indy Ref , he will not be in ANY position to impose terms since his party will STILL be insignificant in relation to holding any power and he himself will be ……still an MP ?
For a country that is portrayed as being subsidised and whose resources i.e. oil, are deemed as diminishing they are certainly working uber hard to retain it’s existence within UKOK…..and that does not really make sense to anyone who is of a logical and practical mind.
Cable and his band of agitators should realise that they do not hold the power to deny or approve ANYTHING within UKOK and certainly NOT dictate ANYTHING in respect to Scotland’s future.
One could list their complicity in BT and their shameless u turns on policies e.g. Tuition fees , to highlight their self serving agenda which certainly does not represent values I hold and expect the party I vote for to hold.
Lib Dems are political parasites and are happy to feed off any political party at WM to gain undeserved power at the expense of relinquishing their own policies that , as proven, are not worth the paper they are written on.
He like all the other unionists politicians are transparent in the methods they use to desperately try to stall and prevent Scottish independence.
It is beyond belief this non entity should even think he has any say in what we can do,and will do….. and no amount of project fear tactics by the likes of minnows such as him and his party will stop us.
We should not make the mistake of thinking Cable speaks as a LibDem. He thinks and speaks as a Unionist. During 2014 on the YES stalls in Aberdeenshire the most aggressive people I encountered were LibDem councillors and activists. ( Christine Jardine went for lies and scare stories to pensioners)
Tory, Labour and LibDem politicians and activists work together. All of the various “difference” evaporate if their UK club is at risk. It doesn’t matter if it is in an alliance with the Tories, Better Together or this latest example.
They like the privileged club and its rewards…what is next a pledge or a vow?
The clear evidence is very recent – values, principles and the interest of those in greatest need are abandoned for a job title and car. Cable has PROVED he is a yellow Tory.
Never trust a Tory regardless of the qualifying colour.
@Macart
Not like you to use an expletive. 🙂
You said how we all feel we’re all getting weary of the lies. 🙁
Roll on the day I get to vote.
@Capella
It is also disingenuous of Cable, money doesn’t disappear it has gone somewhere. If I buy a new car today and sell it tomorrow for £5k less, the money hasn’t disappeared, apart from my bank account, it is sitting with the dealer that sold it to me.
So Vince is either a liar, or doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Neither is a good look for an elected parliamentarian.
You were found out before Vince, and you’ll need to do better than this to hoodwink our Stu.
Capella at 12.10
In this case Vince Cable was fairly accurate. The “money” didn’t actually exist. We live in a fantasy economy.
This highlights the fundamental difference in belief systems of BritNats and we independentists.
What do people like Cable, May, Corbyn, etc think gives them the right to interfere in an issue which is for Scots alone to decide?
My answer. None. They have a bloody cheek.
Their answer. Every right because Scotland is, in their minds, just a region of their Greater England. EURef is the specific topic, but it could be one of many others.
IMO, their attitudes probably do more harm than good to their own cause. Does Cable think he has impressed many Scots with his brilliance of thought on the matter? He has more likely got some people’s humph up and made a few converts to Indy.
This will continue until Independence Day.
Ah!!! Imagine a new sit-com with Vince’s Cable and the other old FUD Jim Sillars.
No?
Me neither.
Clapper57@12.21
“Peoples vote”
The SNPs stance should be No, we were ignored with the first EU vote, so don’t expect Scotland to get involved then ignored again.
Westminster made the mess with England, they can clean it up or take the consequences from their electorate.
We will be Independent so they can go and “Do One”.
Simples.
Tick Tock.
@call me dave
Moment of weakness. (cough) 🙂
The Lib Dems – The liar’s party. Hell, even their name is a lie, they are not very liberal and they are deeply undemocratic.
They’re also strangely the most fervently unionist of all the unionist parties. Thankfully, they are an irrelevance.
Vince (laying a) Cable – is he trying out for a gameshow host?
Best of 3?
– er
best of … 5!
double or quits
one spin of the wheel and you need double zero
3 card monte the new voting system
watch the pea not the cup
one king for a full house
– then its –
come and see what you could have won
– naturally wealthy, resource rich, democratic, modern western society, with market economy, welfare state, top class health and education systems
… OH !
– but you had fun, that’s the main thing
Vince, by being mildy critical of the bankers in 2008 (Darling asleep at the wheel, then shat it, writing a blank cheque instead of jailing them) became a truthteller, sword of justice and champion of the people … the act is wearing thin now
No surprise as the LDs are fiercely pro EU and fiercely pro UK. Using a confirmatory vote on the final Brexit deal or no deal between the UK and EU is their way of trying to reverse Brexit. Similarly requiring a confirmatory vote on the final deal between rUK and a Scotland which voted Yes to independence would be their way of trying to reverse any indyref vote.
[…] Wings Over Scotland The tin-eared soldier Vince Cable, who was once apparently some sort of politician, took it upon himself to […]
LibDems Vince Unstable soon to be the Irrelevant Obscure Party of british politics & theim in HolyRood no worth ah mention .
Proud Cybernat says:
14 September, 2018 at 11:16 am
Not sure what you mean here, Rev: “…so that’s less than 2%”
If 2.5m (half of 5m) are voting, surely that’s 29% of 8.4m? (I’m guessing I’ve wrongly picked up what you’re saying here).”””
……………….
I think he is referring to the 100,000 who need to sign the petition calling for a referendum on constitutional matters. This figure is 2% of the total number registered to vote.
It was a clunky way to express it particularly since the figure of 100,000 was in the previous paragraph so not clear which figures the 2% refers to
@ Capella,
I’ve heard money concisely described as ‘a promise of future work done’. Once you understand what money actually is, you will realise that it can be created or destroyed at will. Or it can disappear through careless actions.
The FM was asked this question by school children on STV when she answered the question they all got it immediately
Now does that mean Scottish education is far better than English education or does it mean Nicola Sturgeon explained it really well to the kids or does it mean Vince Cable is stupid or does it mean Vince Cable is a Liberal Democrat
Whichever one of the above answers is correct 100 kids in an STV studio now know what a Liberal Democrat is
It’s another name for (not as clever as they think they are liars) and I think it’s important our kids have learned that lesson
What a teacher our FM is, EXPLAINED IN ABOUT A DOZEN WORDS and don’t the Britnats hate her for it
Ah, Vince Fable!
The Lib-Dems can be best summed up in the classic comedy one liner:
“Here’s my set of principles, but if you don’t like them I’ve got others”
Thanks Legerwood. Now I see it.
Ta.
@Stavaiger
This scenario that the money just disappeared will sit nicely with those that made a fortune from the crash. Someone received all the money from the sales of the valueless homes in the US, the place it disappeared from was the poorest people in the UK who have had austerity forced on them as the result of this ‘disappearing’ money.
Once upon a time, the Liberals (then a powerful force) were the party of Home Rule.
Opposition to Home Rule came from Unionists. Thing is, in a modern context, they were all Unionists in that they too took for granted that Westminster oversight would remain.
It’s quite difficult to work out what Home Rule meant 100+ years ago for Ireland (and Scotland). The Irish Home Rule Bill proposed a two tier Dublin parliament to look after most national issues (whatever that meant). Ireland would continue to send (a reduced number of) MPs to WM. And WM would send an annual substantial block grant. Ireland was deemed to have a deficit so subsidy was necessary.
Government was of course smaller, no NHS for instance.
So Liberal Home Rule proposals of 1914 sounds much more like present day Scottish/Welsh devolution, and probably less than Stormont has,
Sometimes, I think people see the Home Rule of that bygone era as more than it was. The Liberals have always been Unionists in the modern sense.
I see from Joanna Cherry’s twitter that the Electoral Commission have lost a High Court (England) case brought by a pro-EU group that they “erred in law”.
link to twitter.com
In other words Leave.EU cheated.
Vince who?
Ruth Davidson makes statement, BBC broadcast it, Scotland laughs.
I’m having a deja vu moment from yesterday.
@ DMH, Stravaiger – if the money just disappeared and isn’t real anyway, why are we bailing out the banks to the tune of billions and ending up with sovereign debt that puts every man, woman and child in the UK liable for over £3,000 each to repay?
I was expecting something more elaborate from Sir Vince Cable, economist extraordinaire. I think he should just disappear.
I suspect that this idea is not one dreamt up by Vince Cable but has actually come from deep within the London BritNat Establishment.
Vince is the rent-a-gob selected for the occasion.
As far as Scotland is concerned there are no main x3 opposition parties i.e. LidDems, Tories and Labour, it is an illusion and a front.
Instead Scotland has x1 very united BritNat Establishment Unionist party.
Apologies to the Green party, I haven’t overlooked them, I just don’t include them because they are not part of this Unionist singularity.
It suits the BritNat Establishment to “share” out these anti-Scottish wheezes to give the illusion that there is a multi party opposition in place in Scotland. As it’s nearly the weekend it must be the LibDem pretend party’s turn to appear to air an idea on Scotland.
This latest idea will no doubt be given traction and be seen to develop respectability as a mainstream policy.
Ultimately, it’s all a charade with bit part actors like Cable and his pet pooch Rennie playing their parts for England.
“Hoorah! and bring me my ermine,” thinks Rennie and the other assorted wannabes of the LibDem pretend Scottish party.
The weekend break beckons so they can all stand down until next week when Monday-Tuesday Britnat Labour will spin out some BritNat ant-Scottish drivel, followed by Wednesday-Thursday’s choreographed Tory bullshit, leading nicely into Friday again for the 3rd part of the joke to put forward some more Whitehall scripted jibes aimed at the heart of Scottish aspirations.
Meanwhile at Ede & Ravenscroft, 93 Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1DU, wee Wullie’s robe is being tailored……
People in the Lib Dems still think Vince Cable is a relevant big hitter.
At least nobody in Labour still thinks that about Gordon Brown.
Who is Vince Cable? What is a Lib Dem? Were they not once part of the tory party? Was their former leader not dumped for telling lies to Students? Was their man in Scotland not branded a liar? And who was it that called them the worst meally mouthed good for nothing parasites and nonentities that ever walked the planet ? Oh Aye that last one was me
So, if Scotland votes ‘NO’ in IndyRef2, VC will be happy for us to have another referendum to confirm that result?
No–didn’t think so It’s only when he doesn’t get the result he wants that he wants us to do it all over again (and again and again presumably until we get it right).
Walloper.
Now here’s a question…
Would you rather listen to a Vince Cable speech, or watch 8 solid hours of English Cricket?
That’s a choice of eight hours of life squandering torment that you’ll never get back again, and all those poor brain cells screaming at you to make the bad man stop talking… or you watch the cricket.
Vince Cable is an enemy of the State, Scottish or British, or democracy.
Enemy.
Cable sold of the Post Office to his hedge fund friends for £3.3 billion,
JP Morgan had said they could have got £10 billion for Post Office if they had sold it,
Cable is,and has been all his political life, part of the Oxbridge Great Brutish Establishment,all looking after each other and f~ck the working class.
All together now,
‘dem lies, ‘dem lies, lib-dem lies….
Catch Wings twitter link, spokesman for Alex Salmond says he will be suing the Daily Record in due course, and others who have made statements.
Here it is archived
link to archive.fo
Alex Salmond just put media on notice of impending lawsuits once judicial review is finished. At last.
@Capella 1:53pm
A much better question.
Short Answer- because the rules say that they can.
The banks create money out of nothing, but balance it with an equal amount of debt. The debtor pays interest for the privilege and if they default, the bank seizes the assets. Not only that, but if the bank made lots of such poor decisions and finds its money disappearing just as quickly and easily as it was created, we poor sods are forced to sort it out. Them’s the rules!
Scot Findlayson says at 2.29pm
“Cable sold of the Post Office to his hedge fund friends for £3.3 billion,
JP Morgan had said they could have got £10 billion for Post Office if they had sold it”
_______
I didn’t know that, thanks.
Think we need a list of all public assets which have been sold over the years under suspicious circumstances (ie shafting the public). By party and by whom.
I know only a few, although Scotland PLC would be at the top of my list.
Oh, Oh, Well did some of us not warn the media and some of the britnats, to watch what the said about Mr Salmond.
Oh well, reap what you sow, ye dinnae poke oor Eck wi a stick and expect him tae sit and tak it did ye. Hell mend the lot o’ them.
Ifg memory serves, the LIB Dems PPB at the last UKGE, Cable’s hat was the star.
That was what was on offer. Our leader has a cool hat, vote for us.
Cable will be ennobled for bunging £1 billion to the ‘ggod eggs’ in the City when he sold off one of our Family Jewels, the Postal service for peanuts.
Lord Cable of Fedora, Grand Dotage and serial promise breaker, will be elevated to the Board of the privatised postal service as a Non Exec, the modern equivalent of the brown paper bag.
I got this from the same ‘unnamed source’ that Scoop Clegg of the Daily trough gets his info, so don’t sue me.
The Young Mr Grace of British politics – without the nurse… 😉
God, these people really are desperate to prevent Scottish independence aren’t they? There is no convoluted way to which they will not stoop.
The Lib Dems must be the biggest hypocrites in British politics. They want to deny Scotland a second indyref but that wee cretin Willie Rennie has been “demanding” that Sturgeon and the SNP back a second Brexit ref.
Willie, you’re a Z list politician of an insignificant and discredited party. You cant demand anything of anyone, most of all Scotland’s First Minister.
Will no one rid us of this troublesome Union?
Ruth Davidson speaks, as always HYS remains firmly closed.
It is little wonder that BBC Scotland is accused of bias. It may have happened but personally I cannot recall a single instance of HYS being opened for Davidson, unlike what happens very often when Sturgeon speaks.
Lib Dem telling lies.
What’s new?
The Party of the proven liar as per Court Judgement.
Neither Liberal or Democratic.
British Nationalist to the core.
I see they are bigging up Jo ‘parachute candidate’ Swinson as the successor to Vince Fable.
These muppets are out of touch, out of their depth and out of time to save The Treaty of Union.
Let’s overturn these tables, let’s disconnect these cables.
I’m ready when you are, senyor.
I wonder what the stats are for people knowing who the leader(s) of the LibDems are?
Presumably there’s a “Welsh” LibDems? If so I have no clue at all who their leader is. I’ve deliberately not searched because I’d never heard of them & like most of you on here I’m fairly politically aware.
However I’d be VERY surprised if more than 5% of the Scottish population knew who Wullie “anti-antacid” Rennie was.
Cable – I doubt 10% of the English population would name him as the LibDem leader.
Straw men. We’ll be seeing a lot more of them in the months ahead.
@ Calumcennath.
They killed of the nonsense of greater England when they installed EVEL, English votes for English laws.
@Truth says: 14 September, 2018 at 12:31 pm:
” … So Vince is either a liar, or doesn’t know what he’s talking about.”
You are far too forgiving, Truth. Vince is actually a liar who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Arrogant, ignorant, vile Vince is just another hypocritical britnat. The bbc loves him of course.
Cable or conduit?
I’ve been reading a book (for the layperson!) on the subject of the Theory of Chaos. At one point, the author had approached an internationally-renowned scientist/mathematician, who has been both a Labour and Tory Govt scientific advisor, to ask how politicians cope with the problems and challenges of predicting the future outcome of their policies given the uncertainties.
His unequivocal response was that the author had a slightly ‘rose-tinted’ view of what goes on at Westminster. With a few notable exceptions, he said, they were mostly a crowd of egotistical, ambitious people who are first and foremost interested only in their own careers! He didn’t mince his words.
Wow! But we in Scotland already know that to our cost because the majority of our so-called political reps at WM, including a fair number of LibDems and there’s one again in this constituency, have not been there for Scotland and that has been the situation for generations. Look at how many Tories scarpered straight down to England the minute they lost their seats in Scotland.
Our own Roothie will fit in just fine down there then, among the massive egos and careerists, as will a few more who aspire to ‘great’ things beyond Scotland’s shores. Goodbye to them all and don’t rush back.
Far more of a concern for me is the first set of goalposts being moved. There have been mutterings about a sizeable majority being required to overturn the status quo already and a suggestion that Yes may need to achieve 60+% in iref2 to be accepted by Westminster.
The bit that really worries me is that for once the Yoons have a fairly strong argument here, ie refs with 50.1% required to overturn the status quo haven’t exactly clarified the situation in the last few years.
I’m expecting Westminster to pull this out of the hat at some point when they’re getting desperate.
@jfngw says: 14 September, 2018 at 1:30 pm:
@Stavaiger
” … the place it disappeared from was the poorest people in the UK who have had austerity forced on them as the result of this ‘disappearing’ money.”
There is no secret where the, so called, disappearing money is. A few years ago there was a survey done by one of those think tank thingies. It revealed that while the poorest in the United Kingdom who had austerity forced upon them were very much worse off the wealthiest people in the United Kingdom had more than doubled their personal wealth.
Yet the Tory government, then under Cameron and Osborne, were preaching that, “We are all in this together”. You cannot be under austerity measures while more than doubling your wealth.
They have probably more than quadrupled it by this time.
Didn’t Rennie say if the snp dropped a second indy ref they would vote to pass the snp budget – principles – what principles- the quote above so true if you don’t like these ones we have others. Lib dems right and wrong does not enter into their equations wether talking about policies, truth/lies – just whatever gives them power.
Not only are we laughing at them but also Ruth and the bbc -once more she gives a statement (sitting this time – the bump you know), she is not questioned, is not interrupted, and still the bbc says they are not protecting her or biased. What a joke they and she have become.
Essexexile says:
14 September, 2018 at 4:24 pm
Far more of a concern for me is the first set of goalposts being moved. There have been mutterings about a sizeable majority being required to overturn the status quo already and a suggestion that Yes may need to achieve 60+% in iref2 to be accepted by Westminster.
The bit that really worries me is that for once the Yoons have a fairly strong argument here, ie refs with 50.1% required to overturn the status quo haven’t exactly clarified the situation in the last few years.
I’m expecting Westminster to pull this out of the hat at some point when they’re getting desperate.
No worries there. The BritNats can’t rip us out of the EU (against Scotland’s will) on the basis of a slender 52% overall in the UK, and then demand 60% for IndyRef2. No way, Hosea.
They may well try that one, but they are most definitely not getting away with that one. 🙂
I agree they are getting rather desperate, though. 🙂
Essexexile says:
They’ll try all sorts of shit. However the odds are all stacking against them.
That last poll .. 45% Yes, but an extra seven to 52% when ‘after Brexit’ is added. Soon, very soon, Yes will be seen over 50% then stay there. It’s now impossible for Scotland to stay the EU (other than the unlikely Brexit cancellation. I expect the SNP to adopt a policy of Indy in EFTA. That will appeal to the Yes-Leave and No-Remain.
EU citizens will now vote Yes. Demographic changes are reckoned to add 1% per annum to Yes.
Permanent >50+% is on the cards soon, IMO.
So, to your point. WM is going to find that being bloody minded will only drive up the Yes vote further.
They could play silly buggers with the Article 30 request, impose unfair conditions. That just drives offended Scots to Yes.
And so what. No Article 30 means a consultative IndyRef2 which isn’t binding on WM. They can’t ignore the result by denying Holyrood’s sovereignty, because then a majority of SNP MPs from Scotland kicks in as the accepted WM measure of sovereignty and will.
I think the more perfidious, abusive, and obstructive WM becomes, the more harm they do to their own Union case.
Robert Knight @ 3.29pm
Brilliant, thank you. Young Mr Grace it is for Vince Cable.
@Essexexile says: 14 September, 2018 at 4:24 pm:
” … Far more of a concern for me is the first set of goalposts being moved. There have been mutterings about a sizeable majority being required to overturn the status quo already and a suggestion that Yes may need to achieve 60+% in iref2 to be accepted by Westminster.”
That may be the Westminster Establishment view, Essexexile, but it won’t matter a damn for the legal facts are that if The Legally Sovereign”, people of Scotland eventually return a simple majority for independence then the courts can reach no other decision than that the Kingdom of Scotland has just legally dissolved the Treaty of Union and that is in line with the recent Supreme court ruling.
Scottish law, independent since at least 1320, is internationally recognised as having legal jurisdiction, as was demonstrated when the accused Lockerbie Bomber was to be tried.
The United States and Westminster both claimed legal jurisdiction but the trial was held under Scots law and the court, (on foreign soil), was declared a temporary bit of Scotland.
So there you go – there is legal precedent that Scots law is acknowledged as an independent legal jurisdiction. The present snag with claiming independence is that a majority of the people of Scotland must give the Scottish Government a clear mandate by a majority of voters wanting it.
Get that majority and the international court will back it.
Yes, as Welsh Sion says, Cable seems to be unplugged. Sad, has-beens should know when they are.
Still waiting to see the action plan from the BBC after the meeting with the two independence supporters. Not seen it, or the meeting, mentioned on the BBC or in any of the Britnat media. Surprise surprise. They do, of course, have time for swimming hedgehog stories.
Are there still Independence supporters out there who think the BBC or any of the Britnat media do not collude with the Britnat politicians and Britnats who work in all the various business/ public sectors in Scotland. There are probably hundreds of mad Britnats out there holding up their hands right now saying -please sir, please sir, pick me I have a great anti Scot gov or anti SNP or anti Scotland story for your paper/tv programme. I am willing to lie through my teeth to save Britain. Disgusting disgusting people.
Independence is coming it’s just a matter of when not if.
The dirty tricks and deceit is getting ramped up. Trouble is for the Britnats more and more people are seeing through it as they get more and more desperate.
The Britnat media stinks of propaganda.
They fear independence they know they lost Scotland when they refused to deliver the vow and dragged us out Europe without our consent which they taken us to court for the UK is finished and the britnats can live in there delusions that’s someone else is to blame when we can just reply back with finger pointing at them telling them it’s there fault.
Mike Russell:
” Let me make this very clear at the outset No Deal is impossible and unthinkable. But the Chequers Deal is impractical and unworkable, and a Brexit with next to no detail about future relationship – a so called ‘blind Brexit’ – would be completely unacceptable. We must find something better.”
Very glad to hear a blind Brexit is deemed “completely unacceptable”.
link to alynsmith.eu
Scotland might become independent in 622 years’ time.
I would then prefer a Swiss type democracy in Scotland.
Although I am sure some esteemed posters like Ken500 and Robert Peffers would prefer the Westminster style First Past The Post system of “democracy” in Scotland.
OT, but I see the record is at it again regards Alex Salmond.
Glad to see a warning to the record that he will be coming for them when the time comes, The huge front page article screaming, “Salmond reported to cops over sex attacks”, not, ‘alleged sex Attacks’ mind you.
If proved innocent I hope he takes them for everything.
There’s a fairly simple fact which needs addressing….
England cannot afford its Brexit if Scotland gains independence.
England produces nothing (in GDP terms, excluding money laundering in the city) which the rest of the world wants.
With future (Scots) oil reserves off their bargaining table I think that’d be game over for England in terms of being a top 20 economy unless they play ball.
I doubt a section 30 order will ever be granted by the current (or any future) Tory administration at Westminster & I think we should plan for that accordingly.
Well, a new season for has-beens, it seems.
BritNats getting more and more nervous about the inevitable IR2. They have no more believable lies, so it’s back to 1979 and poison-pill fixes now.
Well, the precedent has already been set by IR1 and EUref. “The irrevocable will of the people” and all that.
As to our future in the EU, I can’t see any justification for an exit enforced by the UK against our expressed manifest will, if our sovereignty means anything more than empty posturing. That should be our free choice, and the timing should reflect that. I haven’t seen any sign of a change in popular attitude. Au contraire, the Leaver madness is convincing more and more people to move to yes. Plain bonkers to U-turn on all that.
Hey, Let’s not forget Gibraltar. 3/5 voted to remain.
@Jim (5.46) –
Here’s hoping he goes for Brian Toodleoothenoo too – I heard him referring to ‘Alex Salmond’s behaviour’ with not an ‘alleged’ in sight.
Is Rock actually Willie Rennie?
Bob Mack :
Yes, yes she is…
Rock says:
14 September, 2018 at 5:29 pm
Scotland might become independent in 622 years’ time
You’ve posted that a 1000 times. You must be a pal he’safud
A spokesperson for Mr Salmond said: “We will do our talking in Court. The Daily Record have been placed on specific notice on recent stories they have run against Mr Salmond. This latest material is based on nothing more than anonymous malicious briefing from unnamed sources and a complete misinterpretation of documents released under FOI last January. Mr Salmond is now entirely focussed on the upcoming Judicial Review in the Court of Session. However, at the appropriate time action will follow against The Daily Record and any other outlet who repeats defamatory material. “
link to archive.is
IndyRef2 as a vote on the deal served up the Scottish public on the basis of their No vote certainly deserves a confirmation referendum. Jo Swinson will have a hard time selling that one to her LibDem pals when she stands as leader.
O/T When the allegations against AS first broke in the DR a well-known lover of graphs professed on Twitter that he wasn’t surprised as his journalist pals had been circulating rumours for years about AS.
I wonder where those rumours originated – strange that they have now found a front-page brave enough to print them. Even Murray Foote wasn’t that daft.
“Is Rock actually Willie Rennie?”
Sounds just like him lol! i cant unsee this now.
Perhaps dark money has been promised to underwrite the costs and punitive awards from the inevitable defamation cases. The darker elements of BritNattery may consider it a price worth paying.
Rock:
‘Scotland might become independent in 622 years’ time’
No, but it will feel like it.
For Vestas @ 3.57 p.m.
The Leader of the ‘Welsh’ Liberal Democrats in the National Assembly of Wales is one Kirsty Williams (no relation) who is also the Education Secretary in Carwyn Jones’s ‘Welsh’ Labour Cabinet. She is the Leader of precisely ONE Lib Democrat in the National Assembly – herself.
She is not however the Leader of the ‘Welsh’ Liberal Democrats. That ‘honour’ goes to a certain Jand Dodds (who she?) who was elected to the post in the Autumn of 2017.
There are no Welsh Liberal Democrat MPs or MEPs in Wales and have only 63 Councillors.
______
For Tom, @5.54 p.m.
Gibraltar actually voted as follows in the Brexit Referendum:
Remain a member of the European Union
19,322
95.91%
Leave the European Union
823
4.09%
Registered voters and turnout
24,119
83.64%
Vestas says @ 5.49pm
“I doubt a section 30 order will ever be granted by the current (or any future) Tory administration at Westminster & I think we should plan for that accordingly”
——
I agree but my personal preference would be to tell them to shove their section 30 order. I would not give them the opportunity to slam the door in our face again, ever.
However, that’s just the view of a very thrawn Scot. I am certain the SG have this well in hand already.
As for Alex suing the Daily Record,
the Daily Record is owned by Reach plc who used to be called Trinity Mirror plc,
Reach plc are getting funded by the State, laundered through the BBC,as part of the Local Democracy Reporters initiative,
Reach plc will receive nearly £40,000,000 over the initial term of Local Democracy Reporters scheme
the State hates/fears Alex, the Daily Record is part of Reach plc, the state is giving Reach plc £40,000,000,
£40,000,000 hard cash buys you a lot of influence,
like the Vow this whole demonization of Alex is a stitch up between the lousy UK Establishment the lousy UK State and the lousy UK media.
Shinty says:
I suspect the value to our cause of a Section 30 will be WM refusing it.
When it’s demanded, we will have just cause, a mandate, and probably a 50+ Yes is polls. WM will be in forced to behave badly by refusing or throwing away their beloved UK by allowing it.
IMO they will refuse. That won’t look good. Also, no S30 has the advantage of no WM conditions. We can have 16yr olds and EU citizens voted when it’s all up to Holyrood.
So, they will say it’s not binding. Scotland isn’t Catalonia, our legal status is not as a region with constitutional chains attached. We are a country in bi partite union.
The big hurdle is a good solid Yes vote. When we achieve that there will be no stopping us.
Ruth Davidson interviewed on Reporting Scotland tonight. Firstly about Brexit the amazingly about ‘dark money’ She gave a stuttering and near incoherent answer.
Clearly a prepared answer designed to put the matter to rest by showing it was all above board. Problem was she had not spent enough time learning her lines so stuttered her way throughout ending up looking decidedly shifty.
By the way, I hope Jo Swinson taking her baby into the Chamber of the House of Commons does not give Ms Davidson any ideas. It would be the most crass behaviour imaginable on so many levels.
@Robert Peffers 4:10pm
Excellent, that did make me laugh.
Dear Vince,
I’d like to propose that Twickenham is bulldozed in order to build a state of the
art jam exporting centre, with the added bonus that English Rugby could reap the benefits of a new stadium with the coming riches of the gooseberry dividend. I won’t however, because I neither live, vote, or pay taxes in your constituency. That, and I’m not a mendacious, imperialistic, prick.
Organising a second Independence referendum without a Section 30 order might not be straightforward.
I would expect some sort of organised campaign calling for Unionists to boycott a referendum and no doubt the BBC and all the papers would be calling it “illegal” and all kinds of other lies like it “will be a fix”.
It’s also possible that some Unionist led councils would refuse to take part so in these areas central government would need to take over. Would likely all get pretty messy.
I could there are other routes that are available to the Scottish government if an S30 is refused like challenging that decision in court and taking it all the way to the UN if necessary. Alternatively seeking a mandate from voters at the Scottish Parliament or UK general elections.
I would think that even if to supporters of Independence the result was beyond doubt then Westminster would just like Spain refuse to recognise the result, so would the Government then have to declare UDI?
We probably don’t want to find that out and seeking a Section 30 order as the first step in having a second referendum is the logical and for me the right way to go.
We’ll see where that leads and deal with each obstacle as they come, for there most definitely will be obstacles and we have already witnessed the first, “now is not the time”.
BBC News covered the dark money story tonight (first time?) in brief and actually questioned Ruth Davidson about it. She denied all allegations of course.
However people are digging and the truth will come out Ruth. Meaning you’ll have to go into hiding again. Permanently I hope.
link to twitter.com
link to dpglaw.co.uk
……………………………
She, Dark Money Davidson, also called for people to get behind Theresa May, support her, but wasn’t questioned, as per usual, about her Scottish Tory lackeys who are supporting the European Research Group fronted by Chairman Jacob Rees-Mogg.
link to buzzfeed.com
………………………………..
‘Scotland in the Cursed ‘Gang of Four’ energy exporters.’
”In Europe, only Scotland, Norway, Estonia and Russia are net exporters of energy yet none of them are able to run their own affairs. No wait, it’s only Scotland that is too poor to do so unlike Ireland because it has a massive energy deficit. That’s it. Norway is independent despite its huge energy surplus weighing it down. No, wait, that’s wrong. I’m lost. Where are Murdo Fraser or Annie wells when you need them?
And, why is Norway’s surplus around 20 times greater than Scotland’s when we have even more oilfields. What’s going on? Thank goodness we have the UK Treasury looking after our interests.”
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
………………………….
Posted this morning by Nana. Well worth taking a look at it, if you missed it.
link to macalbasite.wordpress.com
……………………………
Well, writing from Switzerland, all I can say is that Vince Cable is a bonehead and doesn’t appear to properly understand Swiss Referendum mechanisms.
But I would run with his proposal to do it the Swiss way for this reason: In Switzerland, you don’t vote on something twice in the same process. The confirmation referendum of which he speaks happens once parliament has made a decision. For this to happen (as stated above), 50,000 certified signatures have to be collected. But there is also a class of parliamentary decisions that have to confirmed in any event, such as major international treaties. These are the legislative referenda to which Stu refers.
Then there’s the constitutional referendum. Get 100,000 certified signatures together, and its yours. Anytime.
But. And this is important. You ALWAYS vote on an article of law which usually has a clear instruction to government. You NEVER vote on some fuzzy sentiment and an advertisement on the side of a bus.
And one more thing.
The Swiss might say a 55%-45% vote is clear, but they would never call it “the settled will”. You get that somewhere above 60%-40% (i.e. Scotland’s view on the EU might fall into the category of “settled”). You can expect the possibility of a rerun on anything else that is closer, and things will not uncommonly emerge in some form within 5 – 10 years. And usually, in recognition of the political forces in the country, even a closely lost referendum will lead to some kind of legislative concessions to the losers.
So yes, Vince, we’ll do it the Swiss way. Holyrood passes an independence law, and the people of Scotland get to vote to confirm it. And if you want to add that a majority of regions has to agree, no problem.
And if you don’t want to wait for parliament? Collect 100,000 signatures. Gaun yersel!
Legerwood @ 7:52 pm
You wrote: “Ruth Davidson interviewed on Reporting Scotland tonight. … amazingly about ‘dark money’ She gave a stuttering and near incoherent answer.”
Interviewed? You’re too easily satisfied! Yes, the topic came up but the BBC seemed to place a ‘warm body’ in a chair opposite Ms Davidson to give the illusion of an ‘interview’. It came across as an opportunity to deliver a statement without challenge. BBC Scotland job done?
And then it came to pass after 300 years…..
Not what you’re all thinking, lol, but don’t worry folks, we’re next. Our tears of sorrow will be washed away when our Unicorn is unchained.
…”For years the Clan Buchanan Society International flew a banner at Highland games around the world featuring a lion rampant with tears of sorrow to represent the great sadness of clansmen and women without a chief….
Clan Buchanan has members worldwide and having a chief for the first time in over 300 years will be an exciting time and an excellent opportunity to promote our great clan to new heights.”
link to thenational.scot
Unless the BBC are willing to investigate the Tory darkmoney and go into an interview with the facts to hand then Ruth Davidson can just bat the away with the ‘it’s all legitimate’ line.
Considering how much effort they were willing to put into the minute by minute tracking of two Russians then the obviously have the capability, just not the incentive to follow up the Tory funding.
I see on Rev’s twitter that Kezia’s made a last minute appeal in the court case.
Just to follow up my last comment, forgot it was BBC Scotland. We would probably find once they traced any Tory funding they had in fact confused it with funding for Hungary.
@call me dave
As far as I can tell it no longer Campbell vs Dugdale but Campbell vs Labour. So if Dugdale loses in effect is it Labour who has been found guilty?
galamcennalath – Good call.
Talk about shoddy reporting and misleading headlines. Absolutely nothing can beat this headline from The Hootsmon.
Police escalate probe into Alex Salmond sexual harassment claims
Gte to the bottom of the article after gossip of nothing to do with the headline but of the story reported in the Record about bullying we get the “big story”.
The police say: “Our enquiries continue”
The Scotsman say: “a full blown inquiry where witnesses are expected to be contacted”
FFS. Seriously these people have totally lost the plot.
link to archive.fo
His waste expulsion pipe is spewing out loads of keech
@jfngw
Good point.
If only Labour had been to keen to cough up on the equal pay deal for woman workers instead of taking it to court Glasgow Council wouldn’t be looking at an enormous tide of debt coming along soon.
Back to the footie: 0-0
Are we fucking kidding wi this?
Direct from Rev’s feed:
From:
‘SNP Politics News
Unofficial SNP news outlet:
‘We have received sight of an email which was sent to DWP staff this week. It comes to us from a longstanding whistle-blower and asks staff to report benefit recipients who are attending #AUOB & similar Scottish indy marches. All this supposedly in the name of fraud prevention.’
link to twitter.com
stewartb says:
14 September, 2018 at 8:25 pm
Legerwood @ 7:52 pm
Where did I say I was satisfied? Using words such as ‘shifty’, ‘stuttering’, ‘incoherent’ etc suggests quite the opposite does it not?
The dark money question was clearly a planted question for which she had prepared an answer but stumbled so badly over delivering it that it ended up as no sort of answer at all.
Thepnr says:
14 September, 2018 at 8:07 pm
Organising a second Independence referendum without a Section 30 order might not be straightforward.
I would expect some sort of organised campaign calling for Unionists to boycott a referendum and no doubt the BBC and all the papers would be calling it “illegal” and all kinds of other lies like it “will be a fix”.
It’s also possible that some Unionist led councils would refuse to take part so in these areas central government would need to take over. Would likely all get pretty messy.
I honestly don’t see a problem with that. The main thing is to future proof the fight for independence and continue the fight. Imagine we get WM agreement (and interference) for a nice peaceful IndyRef2 which we then narrowly lose (eg. by postal vote)! It makes it very difficult to continue in this scenario – indy effectively put to bed for 20 years. Goodnight Scotland.
No no, the messier the better IMO. The thing about “mess” is it builds unstoppable momentum.
We should ask for a section 30 of course, but not at any cost. WM cannot be allowed near it and if the BritNats try to boycott it, then let them, it only makes a massive YES vote more likely – and then the struggle for indy can NEVER be put to bed again.
My greatest concern is not to win or lose a dirty battle but to lose a superficially clean battle (from which there is no comeback for at least 20 years).
Can anyone Tweet DWP and ask if they are also looking into those attending orange marches of which there are hundreds every year in the city of Glasgow to check if any attendees are in receipt of benefits?
And whether this has been a common practice for decades?
@Vestas says: 14 September, 2018 at 5:49 pm:
” … There’s a fairly simple fact which needs addressing….
England cannot afford its Brexit if Scotland gains independence.”
You are correct in what you say regarding the current economy of England but they could, in time, rebuild themselves a decent mixed economy that produced goods. They do have a problem, though. England is a net importer of food, fuel and power. They could do much to improve their production of power but would suffer in the long term if they try to rely too much upon nuclear power fuelled power generation.
” … I doubt a section 30 order will ever be granted by the current (or any future) Tory administration at Westminster & I think we should plan for that accordingly.”
There you are in error, Vestas. A section 30 is neither here nor there. As it is not Westminster’s permission to hold a referendum it simply is not required. Under Scottish Law the people of Scotland are legally sovereign and if they return a majority vote in a referendum then as legally sovereign there is no legal barrier to becoming independent.
A section 30 is not permission for anything it is an agreement that both sides of the dispute agree to abide by the result of the referendum. As we, the people of Scotland, are legally sovereign and there is nothing to legally stop us holding a referendum no one can stop us doing so. What is more the Supreme Court did not contest the Scottish Government’s assertion in the court that the people of Scotland are legally sovereign.
They know the score and didn’t dare contest it. If they had done so they were bound to lose. The reason being that the people of Scotland’s sovereignty is a condition of the Treaty of Union. (Article 19). If Westminster had contested the claim then they would have had to admit the United Kingdom was not based upon the Treaty of Union and thus was not legal. If it wasn’t legal then there is no Treaty of Union and thus no legal United Kingdom Government.
Last month Police Scotland statement:
“inquiries are at an early stage”
This month Police Scotland statement:
“Our enquiries continue”
The Scotsman headline now followed by The Express headline:
Police ‘launch FULL PROBE into former SNP leader’
The FM opening the new museum in Dundee today and as usual all the Scottish British Nationalists hate it but strangely all the English ones do too, and you’d wonder how that’s even possible that so many folk in England hate a museum in Scotland that they’ve never set eyes on
Can’t be political or anything eh
I don’t know what they’re so upset about when they never paid for it but Scotland is paying for Englands new train set that doesn’t even come to Scotland and a runway for their planes to go on
Does England have no money of its own to pay for things
The Oracle has spoken- the next financial crash is coming. Don’t we know a lot of ‘dumb guys’ who are given a public platform to tell us how clever they are and to trust in their wisdom. The financial services have not been regulated with burgeoning off shore tax havens, the rise of the rentier class, the expanding precariat class- all upheld by ‘think’ tanks and overpaid financiers in cahoots with a political system that promotes racketeering and cheats to stay in power.
‘The Oracle of Omaha explained another bubble is unavoidable due to human nature, jealously and greed (and because) ‘the guy next door, who they know is dumber than they are, is getting rich and they aren’t’
link to cnbc.com
‘That historical myopia meant they hesitated to accept the scale of the problem and use the tools they had to fight it. That remains the central warning of 2008: countries should never grow complacent about the risk of financial disaster. The next crisis will come, and the more the world forgets the lessons of the last one, the greater the damage will be’
link to foreignaffairs.com
‘systemic financial crises almost invariably cause severe economic downturns, and the string does not snap back. This fact screams out from every aspect of the historical record. Data on the 14 worst financial crises between the end of World War II and 2007 show that, on average, these led to economic downturns that cost the affected countries seven percent of GDP, a much larger fall than what occurred in most recessions not preceded by a financial crisis…
Ten years after the financial crisis, what have we learned? The most disquieting lesson is how complacent politicians, policymakers, and bankers had grown before the crisis and how much they had forgotten about the past..
This suggests that there are important human elements behind financial meltdowns: greed, fear, and the tendency to forget history’
link to foreignaffairs.com
‘The next crash won’t be a repetition of 2008: this time the credibility of central banks will be at stake, with the risk of a full blown monetary crisis. In preparation of this predictable unfolding of events, it should already be clear that private finance ought not be saved again, that delirious financial claims of the wealthiest over the work of the rest of us won’t be validated anymore by government intervention. Instead, it’s time to bring to the front of the agenda the socialization of the banks, debt jubilee, universal pension, education and healthcare systems, ecological investment planning and open data. Freeing our societies from the financial time-bond will require a new ability to engineer the future’
link to stateofnatureblog.com
A few more twists and turns and Scotland will discard its financial strait jacket.
Not sure that I should be surprised that the Lib Dems would allow more awful benefits sanctions in return for a bloody plastic bag tax but I am. Sickening stuff. If they never get back in power they only have themselves to blame.
@ Legerwood
‘By the way, I hope Jo Swinson taking her baby into the Chamber of the House of Commons does not give Ms Davidson any ideas. It would be the most crass behaviour imaginable on so many levels.’
I hope she does, it will probably be the first and only time the poor bairn is exposed to a fair number of decent people. Plus Nicola and Swinney are good wi bairns and it would be a fine chance to present her with a Baby Box;)
I just hope Ms Davidson thinks long and hard about any offers to babysit from members of her own party.
K1 @ 9.19
This better be a wind up K1 …. it probably is!!
But, aye,your first response is spot on… the OO marches are particularly vulnerable to this, very much more so than yes…
The main point though, is,if they start that shit…
We should break the system… report and self report everyone for a review!!
The system itself is so very easily colapsable now.. the Unemployed and Disabled just need a Union type organisation..
I mean, eg , if everyone decided to choose “not” to be able to afford an iPhone anymore and exercised their right to be -Written To- their system is fucked..
But having said that I think that the relevant benefits have just transferred over to the Scottish Government.. that might be more about where this is coming from?
We need to hang fire and check this out !!
Dr Jim @ 9.56 pm asks:
Q: Does England have no money of its own to pay for things?
A: No. Living as I do in England, I can only say that down here they are too wee, too poor, too stupid to pay for their own things. They rely (as the always have done) on subsidies from the Celtic nations.
Dr Jim London certainly does, Greater London is the richest region in Europe. The excellent new Dundee museum is of course an offshoot of London’s Victoria and Albert museum
I am watching the V&A Opening Ceremony and why everyone forgot their Scottish flags?
I have always thought the V&A coming to Scotland was a visible sign of the assets being shared 😉
Trying to work out what looks like the most staged ‘interview’ by state funded broadcasters.
1. Two Russian ‘tourists’.
2. Ruth Davidson being quizzed on darkmoney.
You decide!
Dr Jim @ 9.56
I’ve long said that England has never stood on its own two feet.
Westminster has always had the resources of other Countries.
Some will say “ah but we have London “ never for a minute working out, that’s what proved the point.
What does London have now, or has ever had to generate wealth?
The time and treasure of other’s is what…
I say, fine,leave them to it, but our time and treasure is theirs no longer.. we will have it here in Scotland,and they must sink or swim without the sweat from Scottish backs!
After weeks in solitary, Ruth’s oot. Straight to the BBC.
Ruth D given free reign, without interruption to spout her bit.
That wasn’t an interview, it was a couple of statements.
After without embarrassment expressing the hope to be the next Tory FM in Scotland. Please, – no.
BBC Reporting Scotland tonight.
I watched Andrew Kerr ( the BBCs mouse of a reporter ) sit in the same room as Ruth Davidson in what was supposed to be an interview. Kerr looked petrified – thought he was going to wet himself. Obviously a totally staged interview in which Davidson was in charge and Kerr was pissing himself that he would say or do something wrong. Not that he said or did much. Davidson did all the talking. I wonder how many takes they recorded.
British state broadcasting whats like it = Russian state broadcasting.
What a pathetic pathetic farce. The BBC colluding with Davidson to try and bring and end to the dark money story.
The BBC doing its job protecting the Union by colluding with Britnat politicians.
Someone on Wings claimed the BBC is not inherently biased – aye right – how’s that looking at the moment. The BBC is the British state propaganda broadcaster and has been for many many years.
In the lifetime of no parliament ever in Scotland will Ruth Davidson ever be the First Minister
It’s propaganda raving loonyism and I don’t even know for whose benefit she keeps saying it, she’s not even the most popular person in her own party and if any of the rest of them thought for one second there was a chance of any Tory in Scotland being First Minister they just like their party in London would eat themselves alive and murder her for the job, she’d have to check every bullock she sat on for jaggy thistlejok poison stickin intae her arse
Murdo would out her as a non Rangers supporter right away, that’s half her vote gone in a red card, and with a name like Ruth the Labour party won’t vote for her in case she’s part Jewish, so that’s the other half gone
Sorry Ruth but the Gemmes a bogey as they say, get used tae it because Nicola Sturgeon could end up being the longest serving First Minister in the history of the Universe if she wanted the job but she’ll probably be happy with good Queen Nicky then retire to her modest two up two down country home in sunny Irvine
Joe Coutts
re (t)Ruthless on the TV/BBC website.
Funny isn;t it. Nicola goes to the the world leading V and A for a preview, says it is stunning and all we get is a photo and a transcript of some of what she says.
The same a couple of days ago, she was shown at FMQ’s but they NEVER let us hear her speaking. We get clips of Rennie, Leonard, Davidson, Harvie, Dugdale, Annie Wells but never the elected First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon.
She is all but written out of broadcasting history in Scotland – mustn’t let people hear her speaking sense and truth to power.
If we feature (t)Ruthless speaking enough times, they’ll maybe think she is the FM already.
Disgraceful BBC , och but they’re no biased are they?
Davidson will never be Scotland’s FM and she knows it. The Tories have less than 25% of the vote in Scotland. Long may that continue.
When Indyref2 is called, the Britnats have a problem.
They cannot use anything even remotely like the Vow again – we will not be fooled twice.
They cannot implore us to “Lead the UK,” again – we will not be fooled twice.
They cannot wheel Broon out to promise us: “The closest thing you can get to Home Rule,” – we will not be fooled twice.
So, Indyref2 is good news for Hampden – promising us they will fund that if we stay is just about all they have left – but, while they might promise it, I doubt very much they would deliver.
Can’t watch the beginning sequence of the latest Ruth Davidson BBC interview walking down the corridor without ‘ Eye of the Tiger’ opening jumping into my head.
@ galamcennalath
Yes, I absolutely agree.
Unfortunately, patience and diplomacy are not in my DNA. Hence my occasional rant.
I do believe our current FM & her cabinet will ensure that Scotland is not made to feel subservient to Westminster in any negotiations. I am fairly certain they will hold a diplomatic course to ensure the people of Scotland have their vote with the timing and terms of our choosing. The days of Westminster calling the shots are done.
Apart from Alex Salmond (and most of us in the Yes camp), I doubt there will be a collective group of people other than the FM & her Cabinet who hate Westminster more than we do.
@Meg merrilees
“If we feature (t)Ruthless speaking enough times, they’ll maybe think she is the FM already.”
You’re right and some people will believe anything, some people even believe that a “No Deal” Brexit means we will remain in the EU! That is not a joke.
The Brexit negotiation is unusual, in that things will change regardless of whether a deal is struck. The public are well aware of this: less than one in 20 thinks no deal will mean Britain continues as an EU membership, and just eight per cent think “nothing really important would change” in a no deal Brexit.
Roughly three quarters of Leave voters think the disruptions of no deal will be quickly resolved with no lasting effects, including a substantial minority who think there would be no costs at all. An equally large majority of Remain voters (73 per cent) think a chaotic Brexit will do substantial and lasting damage to Britain. Brexiteers see no deal as akin to tearing off a plaster; Remainers see it as more like losing a limb.
link to archive.fo
They’re at it again..
Just reading about tonight’s Davis Cup matches
Dan Evans the Englishman ( world number 222,) won his match, but Cameron Norrie, World number 70, – why don’t they write British Number 2. The team is without Kyle Edmund, the country’s number 1. ( What country is that BBC ?)
How many of us know that the current British number 2 tennis player is Scotsman Cameron Norrie. They are so inaccurate and inconsistent in their reporting.
Re (t) Ruthless,the elusive Conservative Pimpermel ( they seek her here they seek her there)
I thought she was stumbling quite a bit throughout, noticed that at FMQ’s also.
Referendums, referenda. Hammers. I’ll get my coat.
Re: Postal votes.
When applying for same, reason to be given. If unsatisfactory, be classed as a “spoiled” & disregarded.
Check it out.
link to craigmurray.org.uk
Aye Liz..here’s hoping…and if true game on…and utterly sickening intae the bargain if it does turn out to be true.
(Rather thought Rev wouldn’t have retweeted if he’d thought it was a bit suspect)
K1 @ 2.03
Aye that’s what I was thinking…. the Rev is doing a genuine tweet..
But it disnay make any Yoonay sense as the OO have more to lose, if this becomes a thing!!
But I don’t suppose that Westminster would hesitate to throw them to the wall.
And they’d be so proud aboot it too.
Anyhoo… We (yes) are not with out rebuttals here..
Will I see ye tomorrow/today on the square??
Keep Sturgeon off the TV as much as possible: those are the orders:
I’m old enough to remember when Gerry Adams voice wasn’t allowed to be heard on the TV and they used to voice over his words using an actor and they even told us quite proudly that they did that as if somehow if we heard his voice we’d be mystically drawn into his power of badness and sympathise with him or worse maybe even believe him
I’ve noticed the same method by the media countless times in regard to the FM, everybody else gets seen and heard but when it comes to the FM only the pictures are seen voiced over and reinterpreted by the presenter or newsreader
Some people immediately leap to conspiracy theorist talk and claim that anybody who thinks this way is an idiot but who was it came up with the idea that this was so
Conspiracy happens all the time, having theories is a perfectly normal thing but the minute you put the two together folk are immediately labelling you a nutcase and that’s because they themselves have fallen victim to the propaganda used by the powers that be that is the case, and why do those powers say it’s the case, because it’s exactly what they do themselves they just don’t want you doing it
Thou shalt not allow the people to think, that’s always bad for pretendy democracy so keep them distracted by any other means, and how many times have we seen that used when a government’s in trouble on something, a new fantastic all enveloping news story always seems to come screaming out of your television right at you and hey you forgot about the dastardly thing the government were up to the day before
Well that’s the theory, or is it a conspiracy, or is it the truth of how the media and the government actually works hand in glove for the protection and preservation of their realm
But hey I’m just a conspiracy theorist so obviously a nutcase…..my lips never moved once when I wrote this and no sound came out…..just in case
WM going to need a distraction soon. Surely there is enough eggs in the English royal ovaries to fit the purpose.
Just watching another William and Harry programme. I’m not a celebrity, but I’m just begging, pleading, to get me out of here, FGS. I can’t stand it anymore.
It just reminds me that I can’t wait to get rid of this bunch of totally corrupt and most ignorant parasites (all of the money in the world couldn’t raise their IQ levels), biggest benefit cheats in the land, but understand too that it can wait until after we get our Independence. Hold a Referendum.
Don’t upset the Royalty voter in Scotland right now? Mostly folks who will never vote for Independence anyway, imo.
Facts show that the Queen of the Scots has done absolutely nought for us … for at least 50% of the Scottish sovereign population. We voted (62%) to remain in the EU, but are being dragged out of it. What does she, Queenie of the Scots, our so-called protector have to say about that to Theresa May? Nought? What’s she going to do about it? Nought?
What did they discuss last weekend whilst Theresa May crept around the north east of Scotland like some kind of a sloth in hiding (the Tory way). Is a Freedom of Information request going to reveal all? Nought, I would expect. Remain in a vault for the next 100 years or so? Like democracy and transparency don’t actually exist anymore in the UK (England)? And don’t we know it.
She’s, Queenie, actually done nought for most Commonwealth countries either (far from it), but at the dawning of the day, her dawning of the day now, actually blackmailed everyone into ensuring that her son Charlie (actually the only ONE that I have time for) takes over her Commonwealth responsibilities.
We moan about Westminster’s sense of entitlement. She in my opinion is the wee wummin behind it all: in total control. One wee ”royal” wummin, if you believe in all of that Royal balderdash, who shouldn’t even be sitting on the throne, FGS. She’s a charlatan and she knows it. If you want to believe in this royal malarkey where are the Scots who should be sitting on the throne? One thing for sure, it ain’t her.
Raise the Union flag, clap your hands, bow and curtsy to someone who passes wind and wipes their backside just like the rest of us. A very ordinary person just like you and I. Waken up folks.
At the end of the day we have a ”NOUGHT’ Queen, a pretender, sitting on the throne clawing in a mega lottery win every year, OUR MONEY, for doing NOUGHT. Someone who just uses Scotland as her holiday home: her playground. Time to call it a day, imo. High time.
Polls tell us that the Scots don’t want her or her ilk anymore. Now why would that be?
link to thenational.scot
I’ve seen some poor journalism, but at least it usually attacks politicians and people who have money. This one attacks someone for just following the rules she doesn’t make, she just works there, and gets called “jobsworth” by someone who can actually afford to pay £2.25 for a coffee – unlike many people.
All it needs is some weak manager or manageress, and that is that worker, likely part-time and maybe zero hours contract, out of their job. I’m still angry an hour after reading it, and not much makes me angry these days. Direct link to shame the Herald, and the over-priveleged sense of entitlement selfish totally without empathy author.
link to heraldscotland.com
@Petra
Actually Petra, the Crown is a major weapon in Scotland’s armoury. Constitutionally, forcing the Queen of Scots to sign the Withdrawal Bill was a catastrophic mistake on the part of the English Parliament and HM ministers.
Links
Impact of Brexit negotiations on Scotland
link to parliament.scot
link to alynsmith.eu
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to businessforscotland.com
link to informscotland.com
500 mile walk for Blockchain democracy
link to facebook.com
link to thoughtcontrolscotland.com
link to parliament.uk
link to raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com
link to sbnn.co.uk
I can think of a few who should be questioned
A military boarding school with alleged links to the man who carried out the Dunblane massacre is to be investigated by the Scottish Child Abuse Inquiry.
link to archive.is
link to arcofprosperity.org
link to nation.cymru
link to universalcreditsuffer.com
link to skwawkbox.org
England / Wales
link to disabledgo.com
Man’s inhumanity to man, makes countless thousands mourn
link to archive.is
Home Office ‘breaking law’ to expel highly skilled migrants
link to archive.is
Brian Cathcart says
Public subsidy for journalism can only be justified if that journalism is effectively regulated to keep standards high. My submission to the government review
link to byline.com
link to opendemocracy.net
Brexit: DIY news
link to eureferendum.com
link to chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com
link to infacts.org
Will not archive
link to bloomberg.com
The Herald scribblers have damn little to write about these days, if you want a coffee then pay for it, do not expect staff to make up for your shortfall, you state this money could have been ‘made up’ like you used to do, how exactly did you make this money up, and did it involve criminal acts. May I suggest you would be more gainfully employed in a coffee shop, other than encourage your readers to expect shop assistants to either fiddle there employers or shortchange their customers.
link to thenational.scot
Starts in 2hrs time
link to livestream.com
link to rte.ie
At the demise of empire, City of London financial interests created a web of secrecy jurisdictions that captured wealth from across the globe and hid it in a web of offshore islands. Today, up to half of global offshore wealth is hidden in British jurisdictions and Britain and its dependencies are the largest global players in the world of international finance.
link to youtube.com
Petra Actually even on the very poll you quote 41% of Scots actively support the monarchy and only 28% of Scots actively oppose the monarchy
K1 says @ 9:11
I would be very careful about printing allegations like these without checking bona fides. I am a front facing DWP employee, & haven’t seen any email like this.
That’s not to say it may have been issued by a local district manager. Just be careful. Yoons will use every dirty trick to try to discredit us.
However, I do know of one person, who made no secret of being away to Belfast for “The Walk” (his words) despite allegedly being unable to walk more than 25 mtrs.
‘SNP Politics News
Unofficial SNP news outlet:
‘We have received sight of an email which was sent to DWP staff this week. It comes to us from a longstanding whistle-blower and asks staff to report benefit recipients who are attending #AUOB & similar Scottish indy marches. All this supposedly in the name of fraud prevention.’
link to twitter.com
Nana, thanks for todays lynx, looks like a no-bad day for the concert in the Square. Enjoy your weekend. Heartening poll on the non-popularity of the house of Schleswig-Holstein Sonderburg-Glucksburg. Elisabeth II looks a cert to be Elizabeth the last! 🙂
No today Liz…got duties this morning. Enjoy Braveheart 😉
Fred says “Elisabeth II looks a cert to be Elizabeth the last! ?”
And no afore time!
@Dr Jim, 3.07: whenever I have the misfortune to glimpse Reporting Scotland when I’m out and about, I am reminded as you of the “voicing” of IRA spokesmen/women in the 70s and 80s every time Toodleoo Taylor tells us his version of what the FM has said as he talks right over her at FMQs.
What makes it all the worse is that the shameless showboating and sneering of the opposition in these sessions is, of course, dutifully shown and selectively cut for maximum and misleading effect.
I have to say that pointing this out to Britnats of my unfortunate acquaintance has never induced in them a light-bulb moment. Rather, all I get from them is frothing disbelief and scorn, so far gone are they.
I suppose the only consolation is that viewing figures for RS are reportedly tanking, though they seem to be difficult to confirm.
Nana: thanks for that giant plate of lovely links. Some tasty stuff there.
@Shinty and fred who said:
“Elisabeth II looks a cert to be Elizabeth the last!”
Here you go!
link to eurofree3.wordpress.com
Elizabeth II is of course a direct descendant of Mary Queen of Scots and the likes of William and Kate and Harry and Meghan are popular across the generations
@ Golfnut at 7:52am ….. “… catastrophic mistake…”
Spot on Golfnut. That’s been my way of thinking too. The Queen’s basically signed (more than once) her own, and the Unions, death warrant, imo.
@ Nana at 8:07am …. “MoD / Victoria School.”
Great to see an issue that you and I discussed on here previously Nana, is now being taken seriously. Glen Harrison no longer being considered to be a nutcase, it would seem!
link to dunblane.site
@hyfud
Re Betty Windsor (can’t be bothered writing out her German name). Who cares about her antecedents? Being Royal only means that one’s ancestors were bigger robber barons than anyone else’s. Her family tree is no longer than that of any other human being alive at the moment.
Remo Her family tree proves she was descended from the old Scottish monarchs which helps in affirming her role as Head of State there
@HYAFUD
Aabody and their dug’s descended frae auld Scottish monarchs, and they themsels were descended frae Jock Tamson, so whit’s yer point?
@HYFUD
Which bit of “Who cares?” was too hard for you to understand?
@HYFUD
Just in case you think I can’t read or spell- look up what the second syllable of how I have typed your name. It has a special meaning in Scots.
@HYFUD
Should read, “Look up what the second syllable of how I have typed your name MEANS”.
Petra @ 9.51
Em…did you read that article about QV School right to the bottom Petra?
It seems there’s no further action being taken!
I can’t see it Liz. It looks as though they’ve reopened the case. Article dated 13/09/2018.
link to archive.is
These young popular royals who don’t marry royals anymore & are therefore no longer royal! are not in the immediate running for the throne. That un-popular royal, prince Charles whose desperate to plank his arse on it but that will just be the English throne by then. England are welcome to the whole fkn circus!
Petra @ 11.10
It’s the last paragraph in red writing Petra!
Liz I think? that refers to the so-called investigation that took place over 20 years ago, based on the Glen Harrison reports which led to them making his life an absolute misery. Ruined his life for a time.
Petra @ 12.59
Oops sorry Petra… I was speed reading my way through.
And like the Rev says, I was concentrating on the last paragraphs more as that’s where the truth of it often is…
My bad.
But yer right that’s a can of worms that’s long needed opened!
And the links wi Dunblane too !
It’s quite telling that they were getting away with targetting the children of Military personnel, don’t you think? Just shows you how powerful “they” are!
Shame about the kids who have been warned not to talk about it, especially as their parents must have become aware of it along the way. Maybe the signing of the Official Secrets Act and all that. Protecting the Establishment is the priority, eh, just like all of the goings-on in boarding schools elsewhere.
[…] as they can, and if we are somehow able to force a vote they will try to put stupid conditions like the rubbish spouted by Vince Cable, Leader of the Liberal Democrats, this week and covered by WoS . Labour of course will not back another independence referendum no matter what happens as a result […]