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Wings Over Scotland

The shorter version

Posted on March 09, 2016 by

This year’s GERS figures will be published today, purporting to illustrate the financial relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK. With oil revenues down, they’ll undoubtedly provoke an orgasmic explosion of glee among Unionists crowing about “black holes” and how Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid to survive alone.




We’ve already run an extremely detailed explanation of all the flaws and booby-traps in GERS, but of course we’re a pro-independence website and we would say that. So instead we’ll direct you to someone who’s very much NOT on our side.

The right-wing MoneyWeek journalist Merryn Somerset Webb – cited as an economics expert by a certain amateur blogger and BBC pundit who loves nothing more than to use GERS to prove an independent Scotland would be broke – wrote a piece for the magazine in May 2014 on the subject.


What she concludes, just like us, is that GERS isn’t even very good at showing a true picture of a devolved Scotland, but also that what it definitely doesn’t do is tell us anything meaningful about the finances of an independent one.

She notes that “all the numbers everyone uses to make the financial argument are no more than rough guesses”. And as obsessives desperate to keep Scotland under the control of a UK government slashing tens of billions of pounds from welfare and public services but still running a debt of over £1.5 trillion spew out endless graphs based on those rough guesses, that’s the only thing you really need to remember today.

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  1. 09 03 16 08:44

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119 to “The shorter version”

  1. Brian Fleming

    At last someone states the obvious! Thank you.

  2. Angus Angus

    Desperate stuff “Rev”, digging out two year old articles from the right wing press.
    The highlighted sentence is actually unfinished, it leaves “especially the SNP” off of the end.

  3. mumsyhugs

    Hi Stu – hope you’re feeling a bit better now – take it slowly though! Nice to have you back 🙂

  4. jimnarlene

    I think we can roughly guess the arguments.

    Roughly too wee, roughly too poor, roughly too stupid and for good measure, roughly SNP baaaaaaad.

    Those pictures of “Scots”, celebrating their nation being subservient to it’s neighbour, are rather sickening.

  5. Des McFarlane

    Exactly what I have been saying in the National for a while now…

    Now that the dust is beginning to settle on the fiscal framework agreement, I still but cannot help wonder about the next steps in relations to the topic of finance. In a previous letter, which I can understand why you did not print in full, I did suggest that people of all political persuasions would be interested in the question, what is the Scottish economy actually worth? I think before we look at FFA (Full Fiscal Autonomy), we must surely have FFD (Full Fiscal Disclosure)

    Looking at Revenue and GDP figures provided by H.M. Treasury for Scotland over the past 10 years and comparing these with EU financial reports on the smaller countries in the EU with similar populations, I am struck by the fact that there are countries who appear to have a lot less resources than Scotland, but better figures? (For the moment, put aside oil and gas figures.)

    My original point was, what does the 9% contribute and what do they get back ?

    I understand Defence and other costs are devolved, but is the nations invoice for such things in proportion of our population and contribution and real value? What, in percentage terms, is paid for by Scotland to the grand London projects which enhance the value of property. It is all very well talking about English MP’s voting to increase spending on the English NHS and Scotland potentially, and I use this phrase guardedly, benefiting from this through more money on the block grant? To quote Mr Cameron, do we know if it is “a good deal for the people of Scotland and the people of England ?”

    To go back to oil and gas, I have so far been unsuccessful in obtaining figures on just how much of these products are purchased annually in the UK and what the VAT revenue is when broken down for each of the 4 nations within our UK family. So for every gallon of petrol or diesel sold in Wales or any other part of the UK, is this contribution, providing it comes from the North Sea, taken into account when the Treasury looks at Scotland’s value.
    Do not confuse this with the price of a barrel, VAT mainly stays constant and is a good earner for HMRC. But proper recognition of the original source and contribution should also be clear and clarified. Maybe HMRC would then review the unique VAT charges to Scotland’s Police Force..

    Today’s letters were very good and I see as always Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp’s contributions are generally well accepted, but the money questions still remain unresolved. For that reason I challenged your newspaper previously to assist by coordinating a proper investigation into the nations financial standing and true contributions. As this effects people from all walks and political backgrounds, I suspect that this would be very popular cause which people would pay good money to read about and have confidence in.

    Given the short term scenario that we could be dragged out of the EU or the long term scenario that a Scottish Government, irrespective of whatever party is chosen to represent the people, will have to sit down with HMRC in five years to revue the framework settlement, would it not be useful to have this factual information at hand to ensure that transparency wins over propaganda ?

  6. Capella

    I vaguely recall Ian Lang admitted they were a deceptive record designed (by him ?) to stifle the independence movement. Will attempt to find reference.

  7. MajorBloodnok

    Unionists have already worked out the answer: “SNP Bad”

  8. Ken500

    Westminster taxing the Scottish Oil sector 60/80% since 2011 when the Oil price has fallen 75%, has cost Scotland thousands of jobs and lost revenues (deliberately). Scotland loses £Billions of revenues in tax evasion because HMRC is not fit for purpose. Scotland can’t put a tax on ‘loss leading drink, or a sugar tax, to improve the nation’s health and save money on NHS and social problems.

    Scottish can’t get rid of Trident, or payments on excessive obsolete, dangerous weaponry, Scotland is forced to take part in illegal wars despite voting against it. RAF planes are taking off from Lossiemouth illegally bombing other counties when Scotland voted against it. Reported on Euronews (400 million viewer access?) ‘RAF planes from Lossiemouth, in Scotland, have broken the ceasefire and bombed Syria’. Showing the collateral damage. A breach of International Law by Westminster Unionists bringing Scotland into disrepute, worldwide.

    Scotland has been depopulated by Westminster centralist economic policies. Scotland can’t implement a emigration policy which suits the Scottish economy.

    Scotland is paying £4Billion a year, to Westminster in repayments on debts which Scotland did not borrow or spend. Westminster rule costs Scotland £10Billion a year which could be better spent.

  9. jdman

    Those pictures will forever stand testament to the disgraceful attitude of the NO Campaign, SHAME ON THEM!

  10. gerry parker

    At all levels the SNP should be demanding a clear picture of Scotland’s finances from the treasury and harassing them continually to provide them.

  11. Capella

    Well that didn’t take long to find

  12. Dorothy Devine

    Have to agree jdman ,they are utterly horrific.

    Such a happy bunch of non thinking rogues.

  13. Muscleguy


    ‘Twas ever thus. Remember that bit in Braveheart when the nobs on horses ride away instead of helping Mel Gibson? That happened, almost certainly not as depicted but it happened. The Armstrongs in the Borders made a killing out of the so-called wars of independence selling millions of arrows to both sides. The Red Comyn who the Bruce slew in the Church was the favourite candidate of Edward of England. Bruce’s brother subsequently made a sweep through Moray killing his relatives en mass to ensure a peaceful kingdom.

    The part in Macbeth where Duncan goes to England to get an army which ends up coming from Burnam wood (Tay runs through a gorge at Burnam, easiest bridging point for miles. Scots have been allying themselves to England for personal advantage since time immemorial. Charles Stewart was the exception, he had help from the Auld Alliance. English people did not exactly flock to his banner which was famously a problem.

    It is realpolitik to seek help from the powerful even if it embroils you in obligations and your heirs in wars when they dispute them.

    Eventually the English got tired of the strictures of the Auld Alliance. Every time they raised an army to fight the French they had to raise one to guard their northern border as the Scots would come South raising to help the French. That was men, materiell, and money not available to fight the bloody French. That was why they pushed for the Union. Scottish troops to help fight the French where just icing on the cake. Loyal Scottish troops to garrison Scotland was a much bigger bonus.

  14. Robert Roddick

    Never mind the figures, just look around at how other countries with fewer natural resources seem to manage. Use your imagination and aim for the bigger prize.

  15. Rev. Stuart Campbell

    “Will attempt to find reference.”

    Um, the article linked in paragraph 2? 😀

  16. Ruglonian

    Oh to be a fly on the wall when ‘the books’ are finally handed over (if any such proper accounting even exists) 😉

    Folks, ignore rather than indulging any nutters that start on this topic today, they’ll just be using it as their warm-up for their bile come ‘independence day’

  17. Bob Mack

    Many years ago I took a sabattical and went to South Africa. Whilst there I visited the mining camps, where people were digging for gold . Every day men would toil in the depths under very dangerous conditions bringing forth a Kings ransom in valuable metal.

    When you spoke to some of the workers and the management the unfairness inbuilt into the system started to shine through.

    The workers were charged huge sums by the companies for rent,equipment and all sorts of things that I took for granted were part of the job. By the time deductions were made the workers were receiving a pittance,in spite of actually producing unbelievable wealth.

    Scotland is just like that.We produce wealth,but are denied that wealth because we are subject to charges by the State. The mining companies always had excuses as to why their workers were poor and they were wealthy.England has the same excuses with regard to Scotland. All the GERS figures in the world cannot hide that basic truth.

  18. Ken500

    There has only been Universal Suffrage since 1928. Scotland outvoted in Westminster 10 to 1. Scotland has not been treated equal under the terms of the Act of Union. Westminster has secretly and illegally lied and kept secret the economic/accounts under the Official Secrets Act. Thatcher and the McCrone Report. To deprive Scotland.

    The SNP do challenge the Westminster Gov at every opportunity. The SNP are successful because they are funded by their members. Crowd funded. To stand up for Scotland.

  19. Nation Libre

    Why is the UK never described as having a deficit ‘black hole’

    Also, why is everything in Scotland in ‘crisis’

  20. jimnarlene

    @ Muscleguy,

    Yes, sadly, there have been and will ever be; those who will seek to further the self (however misguided or convinced of their position), and not the many.

    Its still a sickening sight.

  21. Lollysmum

    GERS 2006 taken apart here. Forensic examination shows GERS is just a tool to keep Scotland in the Union-Too poor etc but really just rubbish figures designed to keep Scots in their place.

  22. Broch Landers

    A basic rule of political and business churnalism in North Britain is that GERS is taken at face value.

    To do otherwise would risk undertaking some actual journalism, and we can’t have that when the future of the United Kingdom is at stake.

  23. JLT

    This is the one thing that baffles me with Unionists. They just seem to have this hole in their memory when it comes to the National Debt.

    Almost £1.6 Trillion …and still climbing!

    And that’s after almost a decade of austerity. Why isn’t it coming down?

    So …either we are looking at Greek-style austerity one day in the future …or Sterling implodes.

    Well …hopefully …we’ll be long gone independent when either happens!

  24. Macart

    GERS, an incomplete picture based on a false premise. Yet establishment politicians and their media use it to beat their own population round the head (for our own good you understand). Following their logic through to its conclusion however, you have to ask yourself how overjoyed you’d be if the economic model and management that created such a picture was yours to own? Personally I’d be hoping no one would notice me, but y’know, you’d have to acknowledge ownership and have a conscience for that.

    If ever you feel you need motivated to keep on going? Just link to this page and those pictures. People apparently deleriously happy to keep accepting hand outs and acting as apologists for catastrophic central government. People happy to offset, mitigate, absolve, accept silent partnership, accept less than second best because we’re apparently too fucking incapable of doing a better job ourselves.

  25. Ken500

    Osbourne is cooking the UK accounts. False accounting. He can’t read a balance sheet. Adds in false figures to balance the books. Yearly deficit is covered by imaginary ‘growth’ figures that never materialise. Lies. Osbourne is not collecting enough tax revenues in the rest of the UK and overspending in the rest of the UK. The books do not balance so he illegally adds in false figures. The UK debt is increasing. Elected to protect the NHS and cut the debt Osbourne has done neither.

    If Osbourne did this under UK Accountancy Laws in private/public practice he would be debarred, charged and put in jail. Osbourne is in politics to transfer £Billions of public funds into the pockets of his associates, friends and family in consultancy charges and fees for grotesque overpriced projects. Osbourne is sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Not a good economic policy.

  26. ian

    The argument against is simple why would we continue to used what is a failed economic model that has led to a 1.6 trillion deficit and private indebteness of almost twice that.There is no escape from the economic mess that has been created by our dominant Partner but there is through independence.
    The pictures above are all the incentive we need to work harder towards our ultimate goal.

  27. frogesque

    GERS, turd polishing as an art form.

  28. David MacGille-Mhuire

    The GERS. The GERS. The Brit havers.

    A crudely modified haiku.

    Just wish they’d hurry up with their BritNat seppuku/hara-kiri thing. Be a bit more Quentin Tarantino rapid in their currently dragged-out, SLOW suicide.

    Trust Holyrood in May will speed them on their way and each and every jubilant gub portrayed in these pictures will rue the electoral day.

    Fcuk ’em all not for sincerely held opinions, but for their campaign of lies, fear, and smear as well as their complicity in the whole WM racketeering, sham democracy set-up at The Muvva of All Faux Parliaments Gangsta Populated and Driven.

    SNPx2 in May, and, thereafter, heave their collective lard of parasitic buttocks out in the subsequent local council elections making Scotland a democratic desert for them.

    To echo the vanquished Ms Wendy Alexander: “Bring it on!”.

  29. Andrew Morton

    When I saw the title of this piece I assumed it was a commentary on Sevco’s chances in their forthcoming tie with Celtic.

  30. Thepnr

    Why are there not any “ordinary” looking folk in those pictures celebrating a great victory?

  31. Robert Kerr

    Ah, The fragrant Wendy, Whose brain is as big as Uranus.


  32. One_Scot

    Hopefully the Scottish Six will give Scottish public the opportunity to be shown the true pictures of Scotland, rather than the false or misleading ones constantly shown by the Yoon news outlets.

  33. ScottieDog

    Of course in deciding to base Scotland’s future on the thoughts of neo-liberal economists would be a big mistake. They buy into thatcher’s (more correctly Milton Friedman’s) myth that the government is just like a household. That is only true whilst Scotland uses the pound, independent or not.

    A govt deficit is OUR surplus
    A govt surplus is OUR deficit.

  34. Provost Sludden

    I’ll bet that diddy in the Red Tory jumper isn’t looking so smug these days. Why the hell would you look so happy at the defeat of your country?

  35. ScottieDog

    By arguing about who’s deficit is bigger(smaller) we are feeding the beast and agreeing that The deficit and national debt is a problem.

    What’s more relevant is the amount of private debt..
    2nd graph down shows it for all to see..

  36. galamcennalath

    Good, short, to the point article on why GERS are meaningless for post Indy prediction.

    Won’t stop the Yoons quoting them. However, the more people who appreciate the huge limitations of GERS, then the more foolish the Yoons look.

    It is significant that Yoon pundits feel the need to keep fighting their IndyRef campaign. It makes me wonder if they believe that IndyRef2 is imminent, while many on the Yes side believe it’s a long way off.

    Provost Sludden says:

    “I’ll bet that diddy in the Red Tory jumper isn’t looking so smug these days. Why the hell would you look so happy at the defeat of your country?”

    Exactly. Who won?

    Hardcore BritNats? Yes.
    Cameron? Yes, the win saved his bacon.
    Tories, and their proud-Scots-but voters? Yes,

    Labour, by any measure? No.
    Scotland? Look at the way a No vote is playing out, definitely NO!

  37. Graf Midgehunter

    Let’s be absolutally clear on this, the Yoons are going to milk this years GERS figures for all it’s worth.

    The headlines, twitter and the beeb will be in overdrive to ram home the SNP bad, oil is all we have and the black hole is upon us voodoo.

    The fact that all the oil revenue goes straight to Ozzies coffers in London doesn’t matter as long as Ruthie and the utterly despicable Scottish branch of labour can scream bad, bad and bad again into the lugs of every Scot in the land.

  38. heedtracker

    Heart of UKOK yoon darkness time again.

    Rejoice in your UKOK union dividend, silly little Scottish types.

    You’re all a pack of moochers and bums, silly little Scottish types.

    Now shut up.

    Gers is a production of Scottish gov but at least didn’t get away with ripping £7+bn off of Scotland, in their The Vow shystering last week or so.

  39. HaggisHunter

    Look at these No-sters, cringe or what?

    I remember a Swiss guy at work poking fun at Yes voters the week before the ref., I asked him how can Switzerland go it alone, they have half the land mass of Scotland, no sea, no oil, no whisky, they should be in union with Germany, or France?

    Was nice watching such a smart arse crumble.

  40. Macca73

    I agree with every single statement on GERS but given the economic mess that Osborne has us in right now and going so far as to steal money from the disabled!

    I’d suggest let them try to put one over on us YES voters….

  41. Andrew Mclean

    You often hear, or read unionist goons saying they are ashamed by the SNP, why in god’s name are the good people of Aberdeen not truly ashamed of a country that makes them beggars for state handouts.

    Maybe Aberdonians are thick skinned, but having Cameron turning up at my door to offer state handouts because I was broke, given that my town contributed billions to this bastard UKOK would fill me with rage, maybe too many years suckling at the Westminster tit has addled their sense of worth.

    Aberdeen the disunited kingdoms oil capital, featuring in the next episode of street of shame, benefits Britain.

    Fools who wave gers are as mad as a hatter, whilst in the background sits Norway shaking its head.

  42. Robert Peffers

    @Brian Fleming says: 9 March, 2016 at 7:40 am

    At last someone states the obvious! Thank you.

    What do you mean, “at last”, Brian?

    Some of us old hands have been telling, anyone who would listen, that was the case for many decades?

    Just a few days ago I posted links to the work of Niall Aslam, a Scottish Forensic Accountant, who exposed the GERS figures as absolute lies way back in the 2005/6s.

    However, you do not needs be a Forensic Accountant to understand that not only are the figures based upon UK Government guesses of the actual figures but the figures are specifically designed to be a smokescreen.

    When you attempt to calculate any budget there are two sets of figures and the overall aim is to, “Balance the books”. Yet with GERS there are many, many omissions on one side of the calculation and these are not balanced by appearing on the other side of the calculations.

    Not to mention the many, many, “nice little earners”, indulged in by Westminster that are always favourable to the UK Treasury.

    Go read the pdf, “The Great Obfuscation”, by Niall Aslan :-

    Then also take account of such as the many UK rip-offs. Like, just for one example, the, “National Grid”, Connection Charges. Here the UK not only charges a great deal more for electricity generating companies to add power to the National grid. These charges are based upon a sliding scale dependent upon the geographic distance the generators are situated in relation to London and the South East of England.

    However the rip-off doesn’t stop there for the UK also subsidises those generators closer to London and the south east of England. The proverbial double whammy.

    Then we have the rip-off they carry out by adding the Scottish Crown Estates in with the, (3 country), Kingdom of England Crown Estates and grabbing all the profits for the UK.

    What of the hidden fact that all fines, both court and on-the-spot, levied under the independent Scottish legal system go dirctly to the UK Treasury and these are large enough to finance the entire Scottish court system and a lot more other stuff too.
    Then we have the way exports are accounted for? All Scottish products that are exported from other than Scottish ports and air-ports are classed as exports from their point of exit and thus not as Scottish earned revenue.

    Just as all oil & gas revenues are classed as being from, “Extra-Regio-Territory”, and are accounted as 100% UK revenue. Truth is that around 95% of those revenues come from, (internationally recognised), Territorial Waters under Scottish legal jurisdiction.

    I could go on all day listing these little wheezes undertaken by the UK that penalise and effectively give the UK the ammunition to fool not just the Scottish public but also those in the rest of the UK and indeed the whole World at large that Scotland is a basket case economy.

    The GERS Figures were initially instigated with the express purpose of hiding the streangth of the Scottish economy from the Scots. This was also why the McCrone Report was buried in the deepest cellars of the Westminster Establishment, locked in a safe and stammped in red print TOP SECERT.

  43. Robert Kerr

    O/T sorry

    BBC1 at 9 pm. Programme re Dunblane.

    Any wingers willing to take a bet that NO mention of the hundred year disclosure embargo placed on this tragedy by Tony Bliar shall be made or any explanation given for the embargo.

    Or the connection between Geo Robertson and the perpetrator of that act.

    Or any connection with Queen Victoria School Dunblane.


  44. Robert Peffers

    @gerry parker says: 9 March, 2016 at 8:06 am:

    “At all levels the SNP should be demanding a clear picture of Scotland’s finances from the treasury and harassing them continually to provide them.”

    They do, Gerry. Believe me the GEAR Figures are a lot better than they once were but they are still an absolute disgrace upon the Westminster Establishment.

    I’d imagine that, after independence, a proper Scottish Parliament will never be getting their hands on the actual facts and figures.

    If they ever did there would be a great many posthumous re-writes of the biographies of Rt Hons and Hons who died with Her Majesty’s sword marks on their shoulder.

    If for no other reason that will be grounds for the Kingdom of Scotland becoming a republic. There can be little doubt that Her Majesty is well aware that she, and all her predecessors, were well aware they were party to subjugating Scotland’s people to English rule.

  45. Dorothy Devine

    Robert Kerr , I thought it was a 70 year “D” notice but either way you can bet that there will be no mention of those connections.

    One day those involved will pay the price.

  46. Ken500

    Aberdeen/shire has voted SNP for over thirty years. Alex Salmond. They saw the meters turning. The Official Secrets Act prevented others obtaining the knowledge. Westminster and M15 used their usual tactics to try and discredit Alex Salmond and the SNP and cause poverty in Scotland.

  47. Sinky

    Worth reading Business for Scotland’s take on last year’s GERS figures

  48. Wulls

    The problem I have with GERS is the sheer volume of absolute imbeciles who continue to tell us the figures are
    1/ accurate
    2/ independent
    3/ reflective of an independent country.
    It really beggars belief

  49. Ken500

    100 years Dunblane Notice.

    Ken Clarke covered up abuse by Cyril Smith and Janner

    The London Political/Establishment is party to the abuse of children and the cover up. BBC Saville etc. Despicable. Unlawful.

  50. bobajock

    Ahh. Yes – juicy.

  51. Bill McLean

    So GERS is produced at Westminster – isn’t that all anyone living in Scotland needs to know?

  52. Greannach

    The people in the pictures tend to suggest that charisma wasn’t a major factor in the No vote of 2014.

  53. Grouse Beater

    Suffering a fit of depression sometimes concentrates anger positively:

  54. Robert Peffers

    @Muscleguy says: 9 March, 2016 at 8:13 am:

    “Twas ever thus. Remember that bit in Braveheart when the nobs on horses ride away instead of helping Mel Gibson?”

    Whoa! There! Muscleguy, your talking fiction there. Believe me there are far more truths in actual history, that have been more or less redacted by Westminster, through the centuries than ever gets lied about in fiction.

    Hope the Rev Doesn’t mind but I’ve just been doing a piece on Mary Queen of Scots. Some here may like to read the first draft.

    Please feel free to scroll past it if it bores you.

    On the 6th of July, 1560, “The Treaty of Edinburgh”, was signed between Scotland, England and France. Two events in 1560 led to that treaty. In February the Treaty of Berwick led to English Troops entering Scotland and in June the Catholic Mary of Guise , (Mary Queen of Scots mother), the co-Regent of Scotland died. Her death effectively ended the Catholic resistance in Scotland and, “The Treaty of Edinburgh”, was signed on the 6th of July, 1560.

    The Treaty had the assent of the Scottish Lords of the Congregation, the Commissioners of Queen Elizabeth I of England and French representatives in Scotland who all formally agreed to end the Siege of Leith, to abolish the ‘Auld Alliance’ between France and Scotland, and establish a new Anglo Scottish accord. This was to maintain the peace between England and France agreed by the Treaty of Cateau-Cambresis.

    However, also included in the Treaty was the agreement for Mary, Queen of Scots, and her husband, the French King François II, to give up Mary’s claim to the English crown and to recognise Elizabeth I as the rightful Queen of England. The background to all this was the earlier, “Treaty of Berwick”, (27th of February, 1560), between the representatives of Queen Elizabeth I of England and the Scottish Lords of the Congregation which had resulted with an English fleet and an English army coming to Scotland to expel ten thousand French troops who had been defending the Regency of the Catholic Mary of Guise.

    Now the reason that Elizabeth I of England wanted that treaty was because she feared France intended to rule Scotland and that would have threatened her English realm. She also feared greater unity between Scotland and France, and Mary Stewart’s claim to her English throne. In fact Mary had a very strong claim to that English throne.

    Mary’s grandfather was, James IV, who was married to Margaret Tudor, the sister of Henry VIII. So Catholic Mary was the legitimate relative of Henry VIII, while Protestant Elizabeth, was illegitimate in the eyes of the Catholic Church and the Papacy. They saw her father’s marriage to Anne Boleyn, Elizabeth’s mother, as being illegal and thus she was not the true Queen of England.

    To make matters worse for Elizabeth I of England, after Mary Queen of Scots married, (the then fifteen year old), Dauphin, François, on the 24th of April, 1558, and, (when she was herself just fourteen), the two countries signed an accord. That accord stated that the crowns of Scotland and France would be united if there were any children of the marriage. Furthermore, that the crown of Scotland would be given to France if there were no children. Thus, from a French point of view, because Mary had legitimate claims, they wanted Mary to be the Queen of England, Scotland and France.

    Another facet about Elizabeth I was the aim to hurry the Reformation in Scotland and that was why the Scottish, “Lords of the Congregation”, were trying to get the Catholic French expelled from Scotland. From Elizabeth’s point of view, if Scotland was Protestant, then Scotland would become an ally and thus help protect England. So armed conflict began and the English forces arrived in Scotland and the French troops retreated to the fortified port and town of Leith to stand against the combined force of English and Scottish Protestants. Thus began the Siege of Leith.

    When Mary of Guise died, (on the 11th of June, 1560), the top figure of the Scottish Catholic resistance ended. Mary of Guise had ruled Scotland as Queen Regent on behalf of Mary Queen of Scots, her absent daughter. Mary, Queen of Scots, was also at that time Queen Consort in France. So, in Mary’s absence, the Lords of the Congregation grabbed their chance. Most were ardent Protestants, who couldn’t see past their Protestant religious fervour, but others were just chancers grabbing the chance to claim power for themselves.

    The terms of the treaty were set on the 5th of July by John de Montluc, Bishop of Valence, Charles de la Rochefoucault, Sieur de Randan, Sir William Cecil and Nicholas Wotton, Dean of Canterbury and York, and signed the following day, the 6th of July, 1560. Nobody bothered asking Mary, Queen of Scots, if that would be OK. with her.

    Afterwards the French and English armies left Scotland with the Scottish Protestant nobles in charge and thoroughly delighted with the result that benefited only themselves. Then, in August, the “Reformation Parliament”, of 1560 ratified the acts that would establish the Protestant Kirk in Scotland. This immediately prohibited practising the Latin Mass in Scotland, denied the authority of the Pope, and in effect implemented the Reformation across Scotland.

    John Knox was a leading figures during the rebellion against Mary of Guise and French Catholic control of Scotland. The Treaty, and the removal of the French, allowed Knox to return from Europe to lead the fight to make Scotland Protestant. Ultimately, he and his Calvinist successors succeeded.

    In December, 1560, the eighteen years old Mary, Queen of Scots, was widowed and now, as Charles IX had no real incentive to support her, she was more or less isolated in France. The French also had a lot more on their own plate to worry about after the outbreak of the Wars of Religion so, on the 19th of August, 1561, Mary had to accept an invitation to return to Protestant Scotland as Queen.

    The Treaty of Edinburgh had not been ratified by Mary, Queen of Scots and she was still the reigning monarch and the treaty needed her ratification. It is claimed that somebody said, “Ach weel, it was lackin’ only a signature and hersel’ still a wee bit lassie, just”. Mary was put under great pressure to ratify the Treaty but had no intention of doing so. She rightly saw The Lords of the Congregation as rebels and as ("Tractor" - Ed)s against herself and her mother,. Her obvious reason for not ratifying the treaty was because it officially declared Elizabeth I Queen of England, and ended Mary’s legitimate claim to the English throne.

    So there is the true history of yet another instance of the rich and powerful using religious sectarianism to further their own ends. Is it any wonder Scotland still has trouble with religious bigotry and sectarianism? Even if those most fervently following it today have no real idea that it was nothing more than the rich and powerful looking after their own interests and using religion as a weapon.

    By the way, I’m not in, any way, religious. I have no religious axe to grind and I’m fairly uninterested in both monarchy and republicanism in the respect that they both have their merits and drawbacks.

    I mainly believe in the Sovereignty of the people as they, the people, should always have the legal powers to throw out any head of state, of any type, who the people deem unworthy.

    Just as it states in the Declaration of Arbroath, in fact, but see how that has resulted in the USA where their Declaration of Independence was base upon the Declaration of Arbroath.

  55. Colin Dawson

    It’s not just the revenue side that is a figment of Westminster’s imagination. The expenditure side is too.

    By way of example, I tried to find out the costs of housing benefits and council tax benefits in Scotland. The DWP website provides extensive statistics that can be searched and sorted. You can discover how many claimants there are for one, the other or both of these benefits by country, region or by towns and cities. You can also find out the cost per claimant however, this is where the smoke and mirrors occurs.

    Instead of disclosing the true cost per claimant by town, city, region and country, the cost per claimant is averaged across the whole of the UK. There can only be one sensible explanation for this approach. That is to disguise the truth.

    It is self evident that the cost per claimant for these benefits will be higher for London than in most parts of the UK. By using average costs per claimant, the DWP is understating the costs of these benefits in London and overstating them in most other parts of the UK including in Scotland.

    Because the DWP has massively distorted the costs for these benefits, it may well be the case that it has done so for many other benefits.

    Another example of creative accounting is the National Infrastructure Plan. Most of this circa £375 billion plan is to be spent either in London and the Southeast or predominantly for their benefit and yet the costs of these projects is shared across the whole of the UK in the government’s accounts because they supposedly are of national importance and supposedly benefit the whole of the UK. Quite how Scotland benefits from, say, London Crossrail is tenuous to say the least.

    Scotland’s share of the National Infrastructure Plan was £1 billion (0.26%) for the CCS project at Peterhead but, now that this has been cancelled, our share is precisely zero.

    There are no automatic Barnett consequentials for “National” spending whether that be on Infrastructure, Civil Service, Arts, Broadcasting, Defence, quangos, NGOs or countless others. Exceptions to this rule are few and have to be argued long and hard on a case by case basis.

    An accurate estimate of the likely public expenditures and revenues in an independent Scotland cannot be accomplished using GERS because these accounts are a politically motivated manipulation of reality. Instead, it requires a detailed bottom-up estimate. The absence of such an analysis was a major failing of the Yes campaign in the run-up to the Independence referendum.

    Now that the SNP has a massive presence at Westminster, I hope they will be using the opportunity to drill down into the detail of the UK’s public accounts in order to discover and quantify these and other accounting fiddles and to subsequently come up with a more realistic and accurate bottom-up estimate of the likely public finances of an independent Scotland.

  56. ScottieDog

    Action is the antidote to despair – one of my favourite quotes.

  57. Kenlong500

    Osbourne’s illegal 60/80% tax regime on the Scottish oil sector since 2011 has ruined production. Costing thousands of jobs and damaging the Scottish economy. Losing £Billions of revenues in Scotland. Cameron/Osbourne should be put in jail. They are a couple of embezzlers, Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable. Illegally bombing Syria. Killing millions of innocent people. Attacking the NHS and putting up the debt.

    Cameron and Osbourne have deliberately tried to ruin the Scottish economy. They should be put in jail.

  58. Ken500

    @ Grouse Beater

    The power is in your hands. Put a donate button/sort code a/c no on your blog.

    Or do some volunatary work. A way to get into economic activity.

  59. Proud Cybernat

    Think of a number.
    Multiply it by the UK national debt.
    Divide it by the population of Scotland.
    Subtract the oil revenue.
    Add on the House of Lords.
    Multiply by Flipper Darling’s mortgage.
    Subtract Michelle Mone’s stonking intellect.
    Subtract the whisky revenue.
    Divide by Crash Gordon.
    Add a small island of lawyers.
    Subtract JKR’s ego.
    Multiply by Jim Murphy’s expenses.
    Add half a billion megatons of nuclear bombs.
    Divide by 31,680,000 sq feet of stolen Scottish Sea
    Take away the first number you started with.
    Present answer on a wee bloke’s dodgy graph:


  60. Robert Peffers

    @Broch Landers says: 9 March, 2016 at 8:41 am:

    ” … To do otherwise would risk undertaking some actual journalism, and we can’t have that when the future of the United Kingdom is at stake.”

    In fact, Broch Landers, there have been many instances of good journalism in the past, and even in the present. The fault lies. not with good journalism and journalists but with the Westminster Establishment and their, ever compliant, propaganda machines of the broadcast and dead tree varieties.

    You will note there are several cites made on this forum to such good journalism. Here’s a recent example of what happens to really good journalists and broadcasters in today’s United Kingdom – Where is that brilliant broadcaster and Journalist, Izzie Fraser these days?

    I think the BBC keep her in a wee, odd-shaped, cupboard under the cellar stairs at Pathetic Quay.

    Anyone wishing to enquire after her health and well-being may like to have this information :-

    BBC Scotland, 40 Pacific Quay, Glasgow, G51 1DA

    For production enquiries regarding TV or post production facilities, telephone: +44 (0) 141 422 6500

    For general enquiries / reception, telephone: +44 (0) 141 422 7000


  61. Ken500

    Osbourne sneaks secretly in and out of Aberdeen. Cameron is scared to show his pig sucking face.
    The Unionist/Green dominated Council is a complete and utter disgrace. May 2017.

  62. Dave McEwan Hill

    Colin Dawson at 11.04

    Excellent piece. The whole flaw in the GERS figures is the assumed Scottish expenditure.

    An assumption of about £3.5 billion expenditure for instance on Scotland’s behalf on defence when any comparable country would be looking at around £2 billion takes a billion and a half off immediately. In fact as I understand it only about £1.5 of the defence budget is spent in or for Scotland so it’s even more

  63. Legerwood

    Robert Peffers @10.59

    If Mary married the Dauphin of France in 1558 when she was 14 how could she be 18 in 1560?


  64. ronald alexander mcdonald

    The GERS figures show a structural deficit of just under £12bn.

    Even assuming the accuracy (which is a hell of an assumption) let’s work on reducing it to circa 3% of GDP -deemed as a safe economy.

    1. Need an improvement of circa £7.5bn.

    2. Figure would reduce to £7bn (£5oom less new tax on dividends, effective from 6th April)

    3. Scotlands on-shore economy projected to grow by £15bn GDP, over next 4-5 years.
    Rough calculation would result in circa £3bn improvement (tax revenue less expenditure)

    4. We are aware that the tories are going to dramatically reduce tax reliefs for pensions. Merely delayed.
    We could easily reduce by £2bn without hurting ordinary people.
    That figure can include other tax reliefs.

    5. Can easily reduce defence by £1bn

    6. That’s £6.5bn so far!

    7. Could raise £0.5bn from relative small increases booze.

    8. Another £0.5bn from other sources.

    Of course we need Independence. We could relatively easily reduce our structural deficit to 3% of GDP.

    All of the above without oil revenues!

  65. marydoll

    The BBC news on radio 2 having a go at SNP on news bulletins today . Also on Jeremy Vine – are Scotland giving Westminster a bloody nose – by voting against English Sunday trading?
    Scared or what?
    Oh and by the way the Queen is neutral and would NOT have an opinion about Brexit

  66. The Rough Bounds.

    ”An orgasmic explosion of glee…”

    Yes, I’m sure the Yoons were creaming themselves in their underpants when they won the referendum. Now they’re shitting themselves at the prospects of the SNP giving them the same kind of tanking as they received last May.

    Yoons must have the mankiest underwear in the World.

  67. Nana

    O/T FYI

    The tory Prit Patel is in front of the Scottish Affairs Committee live from 13.00hrs

    Something else for us to rage at, check out the label…

  68. Dan Huil

    I hope English nationalists in the media kick up a real self-pitying stink about the SNP voting on poor old England’s opening hours. Anything that damages the disgusting so-called united kingdom is fine by me.

  69. Robert Peffers

    @One_Scot says: 9 March, 2016 at 9:07 am:

    “Hopefully the Scottish Six will give Scottish public the opportunity to be shown the true pictures of Scotland, rather than the false or misleading ones constantly shown by the Yoon news outlets

    Hopefully? Hopefully?


    Get real, One Scot, This is the BBC, the propaganda wing of the Westminster Establishment, you are talking about.

    There is as much chance of the, “Scottish Six”, reflecting the actual Scottish perspective as there is of me flapping my arms and flying down to London.

    All you are going to get, if indeed we ever get a Scottish Six, is the same old bullshit delivered in a more pronounced Glasgow accent. Mind you it will have news inserts with an Edinburgh, Dundee, Perth, Aberdeen and Gaelic accents too – but it will be the same old BBC Bullshit as usual.

    The other difference will be they will put the Scottish Six bit in first, follow that with the World News and end up with the main, and biggest bit, the London News as usual.

    There is only one way to get real Scottish news with a real Scottish perspective – take everything, and I mean, everything, including broadcasting, away from the Establishment in London.

  70. Dr Jim

    Just watching the BBC 24 where the presenter casually admits Scotland has subsidised the UK for the last 34 years

    But here’s the funny bit,the presenter goes on to say Scotlands now not subsidising the UK so what are they going to do, that’ll mean Independence is off then

    What about the pooling and sharing, does England not want to share with us now after we shared with them

    That’s just mean, and I’m disappointed and dismayed that they just want to let us go now that we’re in such financial dire straits

    And Queenie’s opened her neutral gub again, so good news all round eh

    Wheeee!! Joy! Delirious happiness! Where do I sign!

    I’m Ready

  71. Capella

    Um, the article linked in paragraph 2?

    Bow. Scrape. 🙂

  72. Bob Mack

    @Colin Dawson,

    Yes brilliant analysis.

  73. Robert Peffers

    @Graf Midgehunter says: 9 March, 2016 at 9:43 am:

    “Let’s be absolutally clear on this, the Yoons are going to milk this years GERS figures for all it’s worth.”

    There are many questions that can deflate any Yoons crowing over GERS figures but they can all be deflated by simple wee questions asked quite innocently of those doing the crowing.
    I recomend this one :-

    Why do the GERS figure not include the 95% geographic contributions of the oil & gas revenues as Scottish earned revenue?

    If that is not enough to deflate them then try this one :-

    Why do Scottish porducts that leave the UK from other than Scottish ports and airports not get accounted for as exports from Scotland?

  74. Peter McCulloch

    Wasn’t GERs created by the Tories as a political tool as a means to undermine the case for Scottish Independence.

    We shouldn’t be surprised by this constant claim and production of figures that claim to show Scotland as being
    so poverty stricken that it cannot afford to be independent Nation.

    If the union is so good for Scotland then why is our country according to the unionists such an economic basket case?

    Its a question the unionists do everything they can to avoid answering.

  75. gus1940

    Regarding Westminster government expenditure in Scotland for some time I have been wondering just what the true figure is regarding the Multi-billion spend on warship building at Govan, Scotstoun and Rosyth and just how much of the work is carried out by the employess at these yards and how much of the Multi-billions is actually spent in and credited to the Scottish Economy.

    Any fool knows that the building of the hull of a warship is the cheap part and that the main expenditure is on the propulsion systems, radar, weapons systems and their control systems.

    What if any of these are manufactured in Scotland and how much of the installation work is carried out by the actual yard employees as opposed to employess of the manufacturers of said hardware or BAe employess brought in on a temporary basis from down south?

    Even the steel and aluminium used in hull construction will come from outside Scotland.

    Given that BAe is HQd in England I presume that they will have a central computerised payroll ssytem which raises the question whether or not the yards’ permanent employees’ Tax and NI are credited to the Scottish Economy.

    Still, I suppose that the specialists brought in for the hi-tec fitting out will be paid accomodation and living expenses while in situ which will bring in some money.

    In summary I would like to know what % of the total construction costs of the vessels is carried out by the permanent employess at the 3 yards?

    If it is nothing more than fabrication of the bare hull and a little bit more plus providing fitting out berths it won’t amount to much of the massive sums bandied about by our colonial masters.

    If any of the above is bollocks I would be pleased to hear what the actual situation is.

  76. Glamaig

    Right on cue, the Telegraph’s headline today ‘£6bn abyss’, makes a change from a ‘black hole’ I suppose. Scotland appears unique in having ‘abysses’ and ‘black holes’. Other countries merely have deficits.

  77. Petra

    @ One_Scot says at 9:07 am …. ”Hopefully the Scottish Six will give Scottish public the opportunity to be shown the true pictures of Scotland, rather than the false or misleading ones constantly shown by the Yoon news outlets.”

    It’s pretty galling having to visit sites like Wings, or pick up snippets from The National and Sunday Herald, to ascertain what’s really going on …. the TRUTH.

    It’s extremely galling knowing that masses of people are being duped and manipulated by the corrupt Unionist media who are force feeding them with propaganda …. LIES.

    Those of us who have *reluctantly* decided to continue to pay for a television license, in my case to monitor the guff and lies, should watch the Scottish Six and take note of what’s actually being broadcast. If we find that they are lying / manipulating facts we should bombard them with emails of complaint. If we find that they are omitting to broadcast significant data that we come across on here / aforementioned newspapers we should point this out to them on a daily basis. If hundreds of us would do so, better still thousands, we may make a positive difference. Who knows but I reckon it’s worth a try.

    @ Robert Kerr says at 10:20 am …. ”Any wingers willing to take a bet that NO mention of the hundred year disclosure embargo placed on this tragedy by Tony Bliar shall be made or any explanation given for the embargo. Or the connection between Geo Robertson and the perpetrator of that act. Or any connection with Queen Victoria School Dunblane.”

    Robert the very fact that the ‘data’ surrounding this terrible tragedy has been covered up for 100 years speaks volumes.

  78. Proud Cybernat

    Questions for Yoons to ask themselves:

    1) If Scotland was so skint and such a drain on the UK, why the hell did David Cameron through the kitchen sink and everything else (including the porcelain) at keeping Scotland in the UK?

    2) If Scotland is the economic basket case that the UK Govt. wishes to present, then show us the complete books – EVERYTHING, warts and all and PROVE it. GERS is but a smokescreen and is nowhere near the entire accounts.

    3) If Scotland is the basket economy that the UK Govt. seeks to present with these figures, WHOSE FAULT is that? WHY has successive UK Governments (of whichever hue of of Tory) placed Scotland’s economy in this position?

    4) Do you believe that if you want soemthing done right, you should do it yourself?

  79. Ken500

    @ Grouse Beater

    Still no sort code / account details on your blog

    Get it done

  80. cirsium

    @Nana, 11.42am

    On that label, talk about the British Empire administering one of its colonies! Interesting though, that we are now regarded as a different country. It reminds me of the Sky broadcast when the flooding in the Borders was being reported and the newscaster said that the flooding was worse over the border in the UK.

  81. Robert Peffers

    @Bill McLean says: 9 March, 2016 at 10:53 am:

    “So GERS is produced at Westminster – isn’t that all anyone living in Scotland needs to know?”

    Well No! Bill, what is important is that the figures are based upon those of Westminster.

    That the methodology is deeply flawed, and there are more omissions, lies and misleading estimated figures than actual factual figures used.

    Not only that but such accounts should have the same real figures for the same revenue and expenditure on both sides of the equation. In other words you cannot balance the books if you do not compare the same factors on each side.

    Just take one item –
    Oil & Gas Revenue earned from Scotland on one side and Oil and gas revenue Spent in Scotland on the other side of the equasion.

    However ALL oil & Gas Revenue is missing as it is accounted for as ALL being earned from, “Extra-Regio-Territory”. Then, to really muck up the totals, they do not actually quote ANY oil & Gas expenditure for Scotland but instead, (and only for statistical reasons), they credit Scotland with only earning 8.4% of the oil and gas revenues on a per capita basis. However, Scotland’s real contribution is actually around 95% on a geographic basis. Thus, even if the oil & gas revenues were 10p per barrel at the well-head, the accounting is a total fiction.

    Now look at the entire GERS figures and the many other anomalies they introduce and only idiots could believe them as anything but total fiction.

    I’ll argue that point about GERS with anyone, and I don’t care if they be politician, banker, financier, economist or accountant, they will not be able to justify their claims – and they will know it before the debate begins.

    It is one of the arguments the Yoons cannot ever win. It just defies belief that anyone thinks they can.

  82. Graham Harris Graham

    To be fair to the British in London, they can NEVER produce the correct revenues & expenses for Scotland.

    If the numbers showed a clear surplus it would make the economic case for Scottish independence a no brainer.

    If the numbers showed a genuine massive & chronic deficit, worse than the genuine massive chronic deficit that the UK currently suffers from, it would prove that Scotland is an economic basket case BECAUSE it is in a Union with England.

  83. Valerie

    I’m so glad we stayed.

    Otherwise, we would have missed out on pigfker telling us every fecking week, how big the black hole is, in Scotland, in relation to any unrelated question posed by a SNP MP.

    On this occasion, in response to Martyn Day raising a question about duty on whiskey.

    My TV very nearly suffered a violent assault.

  84. Dr Jim

    Scotlands black hole now 50 billion says David Cameron
    thank God we’re better together and voted NO

    By tonight we’ll be a bomb crater with little hope of survival #The walking dead

    I’m selling swords BTW

  85. Proud Cybernat

    That should be “throw” and not “through”.

  86. Andrew Mclean

    The wee herald (of doom) are running with oil bad, my inbox is telling me to watch oil

    OPEC meet 20 April to discuss slowing production, crude prices rise 25% from mid February,

    The heralds response, quick run with oils worthless, so SNP bad.

    absolutely shocking.

  87. EphemeralDeception

    @Colin Dawson – Great post.
    When the public were asked to provide inputs to Calman etc I was one of a few that requested that Audited accounts added as part of devolved reposnibility. Whether or not we get FFA.

    Without that we are pissing against the wind. Pageas and pages of print and discussion are generated about GERS which is pure fiction. Rather than trying to improve GERS the Scottish Government should setup a body as part of its new financial powers to audit Scottish accounts.

    I don’t see why this would be Ultra vires because we are not taking any new powers from Westminster but adding some administrative checks and balances which are generally part of Ethics and Compliance best practice and good accounting practice. How can the the Scottish governn govern well without accurate and audited accounts?

    The SNP are dancing to a Westminster Jig, time we started making our own music.

  88. Valerie

    @Dr Jim

    Loving your work?

  89. Graf Midgehunter

    @ Robert Peffers.

    As you say it’s simple questions from us that deflate the yoons myths.

    We know the truth, we’re Wingers, we’ve learned to read behind the headlines, to think and to understand what’s really going on.

    Even if we are the 50% plus in the polls who know better, the fact is stil that the yoons dominate the airways and papers leaving us to retaliate as best we can. WOS and the hard grind on the doorsteps – the YES movement.

    We’re winning slowly, oh so very slowly and it’s times like this where we have to dig in the heels and stand firm.

    That said, I do wish that the SNP would be a lot more bolder and forceful in counteracting the BS from London.

  90. Petra

    @ Dr Jim says at 12:37 pm …. ”Scotlands black hole now 50 billion says David Cameron thank God we’re better together and voted NO. By tonight we’ll be a bomb crater with little hope of survival #The walking dead. I’m selling swords BTW.”

    I’ve just been listening to him on Daily Politics. Did you notice that he then started to stammer badly?

  91. GrahamB

    Kezia says:
    “These figures from the SNP government show once and for all the devastating impact leaving the UK would have had on Scotland’s finances”
    Poor lassie should not be allowed out where she might get near a microphone or journalist’s notebook. These figures from WESTMINSTER show once and for all the devastating impact STAYING IN the UK HAS HAD on Scotland’s finances.

  92. JamesCaithness

    When oil was estimated to be 130 dollars a barrel that would have been shared by 65 million people. Had Scotland voted for independence the people sharing the oil would have been 5 million people. 65 divided by 5 is 13. Therefore dividing 130 by 13 is 10. That means that if oil was only 10 dollars a barrel had Scotland voted for independence, Scotland would be getting the same benefit as 65 million people with oil being 130 dollars a barrel. However oil went to 30 dollars, meaning that an independent Scotland would have had 3 times the benefit that the UK received on 130 dollars a barrel.

  93. Provost Sludden

    @ marydoll
    I heard some of Jeremy Vine’s phone in on the subject of the SNP vote on Sunday trading. A great deal of SNPbaaaaaaad. I particularly enjoyed the zoomer from Perthshire who claimed that everyone in the SNP and all its supporters are xenophobic and anti semitic!

  94. Rev. Stuart Campbell

    “Desperate stuff “Rev”, digging out two year old articles from the right wing press.
    The highlighted sentence is actually unfinished, it leaves “especially the SNP” off of the end.”

    In what way would either of those things affect the point?

  95. Robert Peffers

    @Legerwood says: 9 March, 2016 at 11:35 am:

    “If Mary married the Dauphin of France in 1558 when she was 14 how could she be 18 in 1560?”

    Point taken, Legerwood, but I did make the point it was just the draft copy. I’ll be checking it properly when I get the chance.

    Thanks for the proof reading BTW.:-))

  96. heedtracker

    Wings Over Scotland Retweeted
    Andrew McFadyen ?@apmcfadyen 43 mins43 minutes ago
    Taking Scotland’s population as 5.2 million, spend per resident on publicly funded infrastructure was £673, compared to £5,426 in London

    Nice tweet. But hard core yoonsters, red or blue tory, will no doubt shriek BBC Scotland style, you get to keep Trident, you lucky old Jocks.


    Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 18 Apr 2015
    Full Fiscal Autonomy for Dummies.

    If you only read one blog post of mine, please make it this one. Because I leave out everything that I think might look Scotland even remotely capable of successfully growing its own economy:D

  97. McBoxheid

    Robert Peffers says:
    9 March, 2016 at 10:59 am

    Excellent article Robert. I do enjoy your perspective.
    Religion was, is and always will be a tool used by the rich and powerful to control the rank and file. The bigoted sectarianists – not only in Scotland you only need to look at the Middle East – have been fed a line and continue to believe that line, although it has very little to do with the true historical detail in many cases.

    The bigotry is fostered and encouraged by those in power with their own agenda to divide and rule the ignorant. History is written, rewritten and selectively taught by those in power.

    Fortunately, today we have more opportunity to find all sides of every story and much of the crap (sorry, the history) that we were taught in our school system was written by people who proscribed the teaching of history from a Scottish perspective.

    I have been fortunate to have travelled to and lived in many places in the world outside of the UK and looking at British history from the view of the formerly oppressed peoples in many countries really opens the eyes to the British Establishment’s lies. The worst kind of ("Tractor" - Ed) in any nation are the collaborators, those that seek to further themselves for personal gain at the expense of their country.

    Nothing has changed, but with the opening up of blogs on the internet, the masses get to see things from another perspective. I live in hope to see not only an independent Scotland, but also an enlightenment throughout the world that rejects power and wealth for the 1% and hands it to 100% in a fair and honest way. I doubt the latter will ever be achieved, becaused most people don’t have the will/courage/forsight/insight to do anything about it.

  98. Robert Peffers

    @The Rough Bounds. says: 9 March, 2016 at 11:41 am:

    “Yoons must have the mankiest underwear in the World.”

    That’ll be ainly the Labour in Scotland anes wi the mingin undies then, Rough Bounds?

    There is, of course, the others and for the Tory/LibDem ones the well known expression applies, “Fur coat an nae drawers”.

  99. Effijy

    EBC tonight ready with the Whitewash resgarding
    The Dunblane massacre. Do you think they
    Will touch on Labours Geo Robertson having
    A relationship with the killer and how he promoted
    Him gaining a fire arms license.

    The killer, although limited by funds, managed
    To purchase a yacht from the police even though
    It was mandatory that items recovered under the
    Proceeds of crime Must be sold at auction.

    Who agreed to remove the yacht from auction and
    Sell it the killer at a knock down price?

    Why has Tony Blair locked away the details
    Of the investigation for 100 years?

    For me there looks like some direct links to
    Senior police and politicians that Blair is
    Willing to cover for?

    The victims and their families deserve the Truth!

  100. Robert Peffers


    Provost Sludden says:

    9 March, 2016 at 12:50 pm

    ” … I particularly enjoyed the zoomer from Perthshire who claimed that everyone in the SNP and all its supporters are xenophobic and anti semitic!

    I’ll hae ye ken, Provost Sludden, ma auld auntie aye wore her semmit. She wis afu cauld-rife ye ken.

  101. David

    First it was the “rough wooing”, now Scotland is subject to the “rough guessing”.

    Unionists have nothing positive to show us about the union. Nothing, nada, nil, nenhum. The union is financially and morally bankrupt. The sooner we get out, the better.

  102. Returnofthemac

    Just suffered BBC scottish news today 1.30. Oil disastrous, economy struggling, guest appearance by Jabba the Baillie. FFS.
    If this is what The Scottish Six is going to give us, No Thanks….
    At least it wasn’t jakey Burd presenting.

    SNP x2

  103. carjamtic

    Love a wee bit of perspective ?

    I used worked for a company that paid your wages,weekly,into your bank account,(mines was a joint account).

    One week,the company’s IT system crashed,the bank transfer had not been done yet ! panic stations,what to do ? (and it was a holiday weekend).

    One resourceful manager had the answer,they would simply go to the bank,withdraw actual cash,enough to pay each employee and make up wage packets,they old fashioned way,problem solved.

    Tray upon tray of the brown wage packets,were lined up,checked then re-checked a huge effort by all involved.(over 300)

    Another wee problem was that,most of the workforce of the company (Building Services :Engineers,Technicians,Plumbers…..) worked ‘on site’ and were scattered a different locations all over the country.

    This decision was made to despatch drivers with the wage packets to every house,hand over the wage packet and get a signature.

    Thanks again,to a huge collective effort,it went well,90% of the wage packets were delivered,signed for,the same day.

    Worried wife’s and mothers,breathed a collective sigh of relief,now let’s get the shopping done etc…..Klaxon Alarm…on opening the wage packets,they found ‘there was considerably more twenty pound notes inside,than their ‘better’ half had been declaring.

    Over twenty years and numerous divorces later,the fallout is still being felt,on the upsides,lessons were learned and happily,the resourceful manager did find a new job.

    UKOK compilers of GERS figures,should note,we live in modern times and playing cloak and dagger with the numbers,for your own benefit,will not end well for you,in fact,it will probably end very badly,still we are ‘Better Together’ aren’t we ?

    Tick Tock

  104. Robert Peffers

    @Effijy says: 9 March, 2016 at 1:24 pm:

    ” … For me there looks like some direct links to
    Senior police and politicians that Blair is
    Willing to cover for?

    The victims and their families deserve the Truth!”

    You are very, very right, Effijy, but we all deserve the truth and not just about the Dunblane killings.

    There are lots of things needing to be aired about this matter. Just by chance I was attempting a search on that very matter just before I returned to Wings just now. I had vague recollections of a Military Academy tie in between the killer and a military academy and the very first result in the search threw this up :-

    However, type the following into your search engine but without the quotes :-


    and you may get a clue, (or a hundred), about why the matter is under UK Government wraps.

    QVS is a UK Government run Military Academy and I quote from their current website:-

    Blockquote>Queen Victoria School in Dunblane is fully-funded for tuition and boarding by the Ministry of Defence to provide stability and continuity of education, within the Scottish system, for the children of UK Armed Forces personnel. Service personnel who are Scottish, or who have served in Scotland, or who have been part of a Scottish regiment are given priority.

    There are apparently connections to both Hamilton and George Robertson among not a few other Scottish, “hecht heid anes”.

  105. Fireproofjim

    James Caithness @12.46
    Hi, James,
    You are.right that the division of the oil revenues accruing to an independent Scotland would be at about thirteen times our current (notional) allocation.
    However when oil is down at $30 per barrel, the operating costs per barrel in the North Sea will probably be more than that, so there will be few revenues to distribute.
    That is why an oil fund should have been up to compensate for times of low oil prices. Norway has no problems with the current low prices.
    Nevertheless the oil price will recover. Probably sooner than expected as it is rising quickly at the moment.
    Personally I hope it stays low for a little while longer because otherwise Westminster will be even more reluctant to lose their cash cow.

  106. ArtyHetty

    Great article, and some fab comments, have yet to read them all.

    Remember that these lies are also for the benefit of those south of the border, so they scream basket case to Scotland for another year. Scroungers, but we love you and want you to stay all the same, ha ha!

    It’s all quite Kafkaesque for those of us on the YES side, who know how Scotland is being royally screwed day in day out. The ones who call themselves North Brits p, proud scotbuts, have my utter contempt for being so blinkered, to the detriment of their own country and the people of Scotland.

  107. Jack Murphy

    The Telegraph 2014.
    “Scottish independence ‘would be cataclysmic for the world’, ex-Nato Head warns” says Labour’s Baron George Robertson of Port Ellen.
    2016—how’s things now George?

  108. Compton Arthur

    Westminster is totally corrupt and there has never been any doubt in my mind that before we have Independence the streets of our cities will see fighting no different from what went on in Ireland . It is the economy of England that is in trouble as the revenue from oil drops and they know that as the population of Scotland is changing and within five years the yes vote will be in the 70% cent region that without a doubt they will have to put troops back on our streets to try and retain their theft of our assets .PS the last referendum was rigged .

  109. Les Wilson

    Well it shows what we know, we are fiddled to meet Westminster’s agenda.They are good at it 300 years of practice.

  110. Provost Sludden

    @ Robert Peffers
    A nice response sir, perhaps the gent in question could do witn a history lesson from your good self.

  111. Del

    The Scotsman’s take on the latest GERS figures: £15 Bn deficit this year
    Anyone care to comment?

  112. Legerwood

    Robert Letters @ 1.04 am

    Your welcome. I am doing something similar to you and have been trawling through various sources and it is driving me nuts the number of times, within the same source sometimes, that different dates are given for the same event. Probably it has made me hypersensitive to dates etc in anything I read at the moment.

  113. Dcanmore

    Nevermind folks, it was joyously announced yesterday that £60 million of public funds has now been accrued for London’s Garden Bridge project. It is believed that it will top out at around £80-90 million with another £100 million from private sources to fully fund the project. The public will also fund the £3.5 million estimated annual maintenance costs, forever.

    Oh and it was also announced that people sleeping rough in that very same city has doubled in five years.

    British and proud?

  114. Paul Larsen

    When it comes to figures and GERS I honestly don’t know much, or want to know much. I don’t trust anything that was born in the dark depths of Westemonster to be used by the unionists as a reason for staying in the union.

    As with most things I’ll just have to rely on the common sense part of my brain or the BS grind in the pit of my stomach that tells me that, excluding some football teams, we do have a lot going for us in Scotland we have great resources, although they have been badly managed over the centuries. Many many countries out there who were in the past colonised by the Empire don’t have half the things we have and manage just fine.

    Imperialism and unionism has been a scourge on the world for centuries and obviously the last people to see this are the ones who worship their grand masters in Westemonsterland,. Minions like Ruth Davidson and her merry band of followers who are hoping to overtake Slab by telling more lies than labour actually tell, the GERS is a really good weapon for her propeganda machine, I look forward to hearing her BS over the next wee while.

  115. Peter Clive

    GERS just reinforces unionist control strategies:

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