The shattering of the UK
Depending on which parts of the media you were reading yesterday and this morning, the economic case for independence was either “shattered” (the Herald), “demolished” (the Spectator), “shredded” (Daily Record), “smashed to smithereens” (Willie Rennie, bless) or any number of other apocalyptic metaphors for total destruction, by a 1% fall in Scottish revenues resulting from a steep drop in oil prices which led to a notional Scottish budget deficit that by some measures was as high as 10% of GDP.
We must assume, then, that the economic case for the UK being an independent nation was rendered unto ruins in 2009-10, when its deficit exceeded 11% of GDP.
Either that, of course, or the occasional bad couple of years are a problem that affects every nation on Earth without them exploding with self-loathing panic.
And given that the methodology of GERS significantly distorts and exaggerates the size of Scotland’s fiscal gap (indeed, was expressly designed to do so), and also tells us absolutely nothing about the economy of an independent Scotland, then a wise reader might be able to deduce that all the screaming hysteria signifies is the Unionist camp’s ongoing terror of the inexorable direction of political and demographic travel towards independence, the normal state of any nation.
.
FOOTNOTE: We might also pause to remember that commentators with the esteemed media pedigree of former Scotsman and BBC editor Tim Luckhurst were furiously proclaiming that the economic case had been “destroyed” as early as February 2012, when oil revenues were high and Scotland’s finances were in fact far healthier than the UK’s, at a deficit of 4.4% of GDP compared to the UK’s 6.6%.
But, obviously, the fact that the situation could have reversed in four years means it could never possibly swing the other way again. Destruction is forever. The only thing we can say for absolute certain is that if Scotland’s economy is healthier than the UK’s at any given point then the case for independence has been destroyed, and if it’s less healthy than the UK’s then the case for independence has been destroyed.
Personally, I’ve reached the stage I give the tossers no mercy, especially Scots ecstatic to see Scotland belittled.
Anyhow, many thanks, Stuart, for the dynamic support in the cause of democratic government. (Time to donate.)
It was good to hear John Swinney nail this guff on GMS this morning
There will be a time when the majority of the Scottish public will become aware that the Yoon media is no more than a British State propaganda tool used to deceive and con Scotland for their own self interest.
This way of life is wrong and damaging to Scotlands future.
SNP x 2 come May, it’s the only power we have for now.
Unionists sometimes seem to have an altogether too unhealthy interest in keeping Scotland dependent:
http://moflomojo.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-feeders.html
Wee tip for gleeful, self loathing Unionists, wanking themselves raw over useless spread sheets, overcome by sweaty Jockholm Syndrome; you can’t fix stupid.
There isn’t a pill in the world to fix stupid.
Stupid is forever.
Have we any reason to suppose that the Treasury figures above are any more reliable than the GERS figures. Gordon Brown promoted PFIs with the purpose of keeping government borrowing “off the books”.
My hopes to buy a pie this morning were dashed and destroyed by the fact I had forgotten to take enough money with me
and therefore crashed out of the shop
My family lambasted me for my my lack of a grasp of supermarket economics leading to my total lack of returning home with that pie thus destroying any credibility of ever going out for a pie again
How can I ever be trusted to shop for my family in the future when all I have is fantasy economics
My next door neighbour will now do all my shopping and handle my money going forward even though they themselves are having their car repossessed for non payment and are behind with their Wonga loan
I think it’s time to admin that we have 2 types of Unionists, the ones that no matter what would always vote for the Union and the ones who are just fucking dim.
If they can’t see that if Scotland’s finances are truly awful it HAS to be because we are part of a Union which has failed, the worse the figures are the bigger the failure.
Unionist 1. I’m a fuckwit who will vote for the Union no matter what – GSTQ
Unionist 2. I’m a dumbfuck dim fuckwit who can’t see when something has failed – GSTQ
Having a credible debate with these folk is pointless, they should be laughed at and nothing more.
Thought part of the fall in oil revenue was due to the government changing the amount it tries to squeeze. This would have happened regardless. Perhaps in not so dramatic a way but on the cards anyway.
If our economy is in such bad a state why are they not pushing for independence to remove the drain or is it that justifying that would expose the basketcase that is Georges achexement
Day 2, still going, keep it up.
And here’s me thinking all of the WoS “GERS is a load of rubbish” articles from a few month’s ago would have convinced all your followers that yesterday’s report was not worth considering.
So why the angst?
G H Graham says:
“Jockholm Syndrome”
What an appropriate phrase. New to me, but spot on for so many situations!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jockholm+syndrome
Colin Rippey says:
10 March, 2016 at 10:24 am
Day 2, still going, keep it up.
And here’s me thinking all of the WoS “GERS is a load of rubbish” articles from a few month’s ago would have convinced all your followers that yesterday’s report was not worth considering.
So why the angst?
Because its an extraordinary democracy in your Scotland region, where your neighbours news media, all led and coordinated by the BBC, go stark staring mad to stop Scotland voting SNP, is why Kevrage.
It would make anyone angsty Kevin. Unless you know different, with excel:D
“So why the angst?”
Because it’s this or talk about the fucking Scottish Six again.
Not “angst” but “anger”.
O/t
Donated to AyeMail.scot. If he helps you then we should help him. Couldn’t do without you!
According to Buzzfeed, “People kept praising the SNP at a Jeremy Corbyn rally in Scotland”
He,he.
Jockholm Syndrome and The Spanners.
Sure they did a session for John Peel back in the day.
“Not “angst” but “anger”.”
Not even that. This site’s stated purpose is monitoring the Scottish political media. The only thing the Scottish political media is talking about is GERS, so that’s what we’re covering.
It’s kinda worrying that even that simple concept is apparently beyond the likes of Colin here.
Something that needs to be considered re the falling oil price is UK Foreign policy.
For a so called mover and shaker with a seat at the top table, the UK does make some utterly stupid foreign policy decisions.
The low oil price, as far as I can understand things is due to Saudi Arabia and decisions made there.
Saudi Arabia has a gripe with Russia because Russian backs Assad in Syria, which of course, is preventing the “right” kind of Islam from being implemented in Syria by the Saudi’s.
Therefor the Saudi’s release a glut of oil onto the market in an effort to cripple Russia’s economy.
In addition the Saudi’s don’t like the US shale oil industry, so ditto with causing a glut of oil on the world market.
The result is a falling of the oil price.
And what does the UK Government do?
Hang out the flags for the Saudi Royal Family, dress up the walking corpse that is Prince Philip in all his toy soldier finery. Support the Saudi regime; sell them arms and basically turns a blind eye to the regimes activities.
Picked the wrong side? That’s not the half of it.
And who suffers? Scotland!
We will find out soon how much is being raised in tax in the UK and how much Westminster is borrowing. How the criminals Cameron/Osbourne are ruining the UK economy. They can’t even read a balance sheet and commit fraudulent accounting.. With grotesque, expensive, unsafe projects which have a negative effect on the UK economy. Sanctioning and starving the vulnerable to death is not a good economic policy. Embezzling public money for their associates, family and friends, in consultancy and fees. They are on their way out. Half their elected members do not support them.
Elected to support NHS and cut the debt. They have done neither.
The helicopter flights are increasing.
4 Helicopters falling from the sky. UK Health and Safety rules being broken. No Inquiry. Ruled out by Robert Goodwill MP, despite the recommendation of the UK Gov Transport Committee. The Helicopter Company sold up two years later for £250Million.
Cameron/Osbourne have deliberately tried to ruin the Oil industry. Since 2011 – 60/80% tax rate, when the price has fallen 75%. They are criminals, killing innocent people.
britnats continue the desperate too-wee-too-stupid onslaught, forgetting, as the Rev points out above, that we’ve heard it all before. The front-page headlines of britnat “newspapers” and the bbc’s customery negativity have been saying the same for years yet support for the SNP and independence is more than solid. So, we must conclude, the britnat media is concentrating on continuing to scare the ignorant and fearful. Thankfully more and more people in Scotland are noting and dismissing such britnat deceit.
@Flower of Scotland
Here’s the link
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/delivery-for-indy#/
Question:
Has there ever been such a monstrous effort on the part of the unionist media to selectively skew the figures to suit the narrative that Scotland is an economic failure: always was, always will be?
Answer:
Yes. It was the fundamental plank of the No campaign, during the referendum.
Conclusion:
The unionist media are still campaigning for a No vote. Even though they won.
The unioinist media are scared because the people in Scotland have thrown them a deefy. They won by means of propaganda, and those means justified their ends.
This continuing ‘battle’ is aimed at maintaining that core group of self hating Scots self esteem.
Thankfully there’s an increasing majority of self loving Scots who are going to raise the bar of self esteem to full malky.
There’s a tsunami coming…
SNP x 2 May 2016
I saw a graph on Twitter from that pet supplies guy which seemed to show Scotland and Greece (both countries who don’t have full control of their own economies) doing badly compared to other countries in Europe. All they countries who did have full control were doing much better.
Seemed like a very strong case for independence.
The best comparison for Scotland would have been Norway, given the similar size and resources, but for some reason it had been left out of the graph.
mike cassidy says:
10 March, 2016 at 10:37 amJockholm Syndrome and The Spanners.
Sure they did a session for John Peel back in the day
Aye, and the statisticians at GERS form a band called Bob Agg and the Test Tickles.
The best comparison for Scotland would have been Norway, given the similar size and resources, but for some reason it had been left out of the graph.
You cant use Norway! shrieks you’re average SLab or Tory yoon battle cry.
“How would you like to pay £7 a pint?!”
Might be wrong but don’t think so. Yesterday during PMQs Cameron said Scotland has a £15b black hole in its finances “thankfully Scotland decided to vote to stay with the U.K.”
Obviously very happy to subsidise the lazy Jocks with ENGLISH tax payer money! I must be missing something or he knows something he ain’t telling us. Wonder what that could be Dave?
Think it was in answer to a question from a lady SNP member.
I was looking at the figures yesterday and it looks like the growth in the onshore economy will over the next few years continue to eat into the current deficit (within the union).
And that is assuming no oil price recovery, which seems pretty unlikely. So in a few years time we could be in a FAR healthier position, which would coincide nicely with the most likely timing of a second indyref in 2020 or 2021.
Of course the unionist side is ecstatic at this years deficit, with predictions of cuts if we had became independent this year. Of course that doesn’t count for the massive savings we would make when renegotiating the debt or not wasting billions on trident, HS2, nuclear subsidies etc.
And how come no-one has mentioned our share of the UK public assets ?
We would be owed billions which could be used to cover any short term shortfall, or to reduce our share of the debt.
Obviously this would be a huge bargaining chip.
All we hear about is this £15 billion ‘black hole’.
Why not our £110 billion ‘golden stockpile’ – our current population share of UK assets we helped to build up over 300 years?
http://www.scotreferendum.com/2014/05/1-3-trillion-of-uk-assets-to-share-with-scotland/
Their Scotland region bankrupted by the hellish burden of £1 tn offshore oil and gas reserves, is however an excellent toryboy nuke weapons dump, few hundred mile safe distance from important population centres and the jocks pay for the UKOK privileged too.
http://www.nukewatch.org.uk/
A convoy transporting Trident nuclear weapons to Scotland was seen this morning (Thursday 10 March) at 0730 on the M6 near Preston. It is likely to travel through Scotland later today.
Ripper’s “So why the angst?” is a variation on the infantile, “Oh, I see I’ve hit a nerve” – made to mean, my argument must be razor sharp coz you is annoyed.
I sincerely hope that when these lickspittles get humped by their Unionists bosses when newspaper sales and viewing figures go through the floor because the great Scottish Public no longer buy or view their laughable propaganda, that there are enough zero hours contracts selling advertising space on the Free Dunoon Advertiser for them all.
How any Scot can denigrate their great nation by feeding the masses with lies on a daily basis and announcing to the world at large that their country, their nation, is a wee backwater whish relies on bungs from English tax payers beats me.
They have not printed enough money to bribe me to consider such treachery.
When the day comes, as it surely will now, What future for these hacks?
I no longer buy any newspaper, or watch the English Broadcasting Corporation.
I no longer shop at Project Fear Supermarkets, nor bank with the SE Establishment Money Lenders.
I take it that any journalist/ broadcaster working for the MSM who was minded towards Scottish Self Determination has now been weeded out of the Fourth Estate?
And the clock struck thirteen.
@Onwards
Worth replaying this again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGpayte7KTE&feature=youtu.be
Surely the economic logic of such proud Brits would be to seek rule from Germany.
What is the Queen’s view on this?
I can’t understand why the Unionists are gloating. What have they got to gloat about? They are the very people who told us all in no uncertain terms that Scotland would be better off as part of the Union. Many followed their advice and now we’re seemingly worse off? What’s happened to that theory taking into account that we never benefited directly as an example from ‘OUR’ oil revenue.
No mention either of ‘black hole’ Scotland being part of ‘massive abyss’ UK.
Lovely crisp morning, up to the newsagents for my National. Met with the front page of the Daily Lieshit. I watch with despair as fellow scots continue to buy this rag.
SNPx 2
Petra: “I can’t understand why the Unionists are gloating”
The colonial mentality lives on, and on. But one day they assume the fatal role of Gordon of Khartoum.
For me, there is nothing more nauseating and dangerous, than a Northern Irish unionist reporter!, step forward D. Glegg.
Clegg?, well named as he would suck the life blood out of Scotland, and never give it a second thought, mind you, that’s why he, and the Daily Record see eye to eye, so much so that he’s employed by the rag, to undermine the Scottish publics confidence regarding independence.
If only we could rid ourselves of this type of scum, I use the term scum, because, when I’ve watched him on the odd occasion being interviewed, he’s carefull to steer a middle – type road, but then let’s his true colours appear with his written words.
So the Scottish Economy was Worth North of a Trillion according to the Governor of the Bank of England Mark Carney days before the referendum.
Maybe I blacked out for a few days, but I can’t remember seeing that plastered all over the Yoon media at the time.
Don’t you just love being part of the UK.
Thanks Nana. I’m not sure about putting up links
I don’t want to be “killed with hammers”
Anyway, again AyeMail.Scot needs your help. See Nana,s link.
@heedtracker
Norway doesn’t exist in yoonland. It’s a figment of the nat’s imagination.
Today’s Daily Redcoat front page wail has Alex Salmond in a straightjaikit and screaming about how the DR is gled that they urny Indpend0ent. No idea what the rest of the Old Firm/Celeb Goss pages are saying about Gers, or Sellick for that matter.
@One_Scot
No you did not blackout as to my knowledge it was never shown or reported. The powers that be did not want Scots to see that.
I’m sure shortly after the committee sat with Carney and once the clip appeared on youtube I put the link up on Wings.
Englands one party state got us into this mess in the first place
Ever since the Tories and Labour became the same party joined at the hip for the benefit of London nothing’s changed except in Scotland where the rise of the SNP has once again struck fear into the English one party state which should be of more concern to the English Voter that it doesn’t matter who they vote for they’ll get the same thing whether they like it or not
That’s why the knives came out for Jeremy Corbyn who IMO wouldn’t have got a look in if it hadn’t been for the success of Nicola Sturgeon at the GE and the English voter fancied some of that idea for themselves having begun to realise Tory Labour Lib Dems are the same thing
Typical Tory economics they’ve spent the oil money so cut as much as possible to make up for the loss, then leave the EU to save that money which they’ll proceed to fritter away on some other pretendy war to divert attention away from their incompetence
Then they’ll decide Scotlands not worth the effort anymore because they’ve sucked out as much as they can get so Independence will follow and then there’s only the strategic problem to solve after that about who’s responsibility it is to keep the north safe from the hordes of invading Russians which’ll no doubt be pinned on everybody else who’s not England
Now I just made all that stuff up but if a Tory or Labour Politician had said it, it would be taken seriously, but I’m a Nationalist extremist therefore not credible
Now anybody could and might say What a load of twaddle but one thing we all know is 100% true is that every single time England is in the shit the Yoons as one collective group (Politicians, TV, Newspapers, Radio, Online blogs) create scenarios to make everybody else look BAAD
And for quite a long time now it’s been the SNP
What terror they must strike into the hearts of Yoondom
Karmanaut says:
10 March, 2016 at 11:26 am
@heedtracker
Norway doesn’t exist in yoonland. It’s a figment of the nat’s imagination.
As a vile separatist, yoon BBC, SLab/tory infotainment black and monstering of Norway and its socio economics is pretty interesting. Norway is closer to Glasgow than Sheffield but it doesn’t exist in UKOK land BBC attack propaganda, except ofcourse for that UKOK “its seven quid a pint you deluded fools.”
Its when you do actually go to a country like Norway and see how they’ve invested their energy bounty in the whole country, its breathtaking and sickening too, unless perhaps, you bought a two up, two down terraced house in a crappy London burb 15 years ago.
And another thing; the chart showing the historic net borrowing figures by the British in the far south in London make for grim reading.
The chronic pattern of annually receiving less money than a government spends has clearly no correlation whatsoever to which political party is in charge. Both Labour & the Conservatives are hapless at managing the books.
The main underlying cause though is Britain’s shocking productivity which remains a staggering 40% lower than the USA, a depressing 30% lower than France or Germany & around 20% lower than the G7 average.
http://tinyurl.com/np4lsd4
George “Towel Folder” Osborne claims that Britain is the fastest growing economy in the EU.
http://tinyurl.com/gpyt35u
This is only partly true because of the flood of migrants to England. But the GDP per head has been flat lining since 2007 & continues to do so, nine years after the last recession.
That’s the amount of wealth created by us individually & then added up to show a nations collective GDP. If the population grows annually by 1% & the vast majority of those migrants find some sort of meaningful work, it’s no surprise that the total GDP will also rise.
But as any business owner/manager knows, the important number is individual GDP & productivity which stubbornly refuse to rise. It’s so bad, that the France could take every Friday off & still produce more than Britain.
So why are the British so shite are producing wealth compared to the French, Germans, the Americans & even the Italians?
The propaganda channel, the BBC has some suggestions
http://tinyurl.com/juuemce
but it fails to recognise the deep social class structure that still enables a self serving elite to siphon wealth away from the relatively poor to the wealthy. When those at the top in the far south of Britain, enjoy steady growth in their own wealth at the expense of everyone else, it should come as no surprise that the majority don’t feel obliged to provide their best effort.
http://tinyurl.com/ph53akh
# Onwards.
Talking of balance sheets, I heard Jackie Baillie in her usual fashion doing her SNP BAD thing yesterday on Politics Scotland by using the term balance sheet in relation to GERS.
Thicko Jackie doesn’t seem to realise that GERS is an income and expenditure summary and not a balance sheet as John Curtice was quick to point out on Call Kaye this morning. And she is the ScotLab spokesman on Finance.
People of Helensburgh and Dumbarton make sure she loses big time in May – I mean like coming third or fourth in the constituency vote.
Jings, I’d forgotten all about Tim Luckhurst. He used to write a weekly column of hysterical pish in the Mail a few years back.
I used to wonder why my parents, who were Labour Party members, bought the Daily Mail. But now of course it makes perfect sense, they were ahead of their time.
Some pretty big reasons why an 11% UK deficit while serious can not be compared to the seriousness of an independent Scotland having a 10% deficit
– The UK has a very long proven track record of paying its debts and therefore the interest on those debts reflect that. A newly independent Scotland would not and therefore we would have to pay massive premium to ensure the market would lend to us to finance that deficit
– The UK has a far larger economy than independent Scotland and is therefore ultimately has more scope within it for the govt to recover money to ultimately finance that deficit – that difference would also be priced into any interest rates Scotland would get
– Currency: I know you don’t want to think about it but it is real. Either Scotland would have an independent currency (even if you called it the pound the markets would treat it as independent if the rUK and BoE refused to guarantee debt issued in it) or be part of the Euro. With 10% deficits the value of an idependent currency would tumble…great for whisky and our other high value exporters not so great for imports which would include most things ordinary people buy and would shoot up in price. If we were in the EURO…well a 10% deficit would be contrary to the rules of the club (3% being the limit) and we could look forward to Germans running our economy until we fixed it…funny kind of independence
Quite frankly the rules aren’t the same when you compare an economy of 65million people to that 5 million. Thats not to say a country of 5 million can’t thrive and prosper but there is nothing in the policies of the SNP that suggest they have the courage to even contemplate the enormous structural changes that would be required to allow that to happen in Scotlands case
“Because it’s this or talk about the fucking Scottish Six again”
That put a smile on my face Rev, still laughing.
‘People of Helensburgh and Dumbarton make sure she loses big time in May – I mean like coming third or fourth in the constituency vote.’
Is Jackie Baillie not on the Cowards Regional List.
The rest of UK is 16th? In the world. Scotland 14th. Add in the debt UK – 25th?
The most successful countries are smaller ones Norway, Switzerland, Demnmark, Saudi, New Zealand. Counties with well managed resources that do not go on illegal invasions or banking fraud. Scotland could be there without the rUK carbuncle on it’s back.
The IndyRef1 should have been declared null and void. Westminster broke all the rules in the Electoral book.
Vote out every Unionist politician in Scotland.
The only thing “shattered” or “destroyed” will ultimately be the Barnet formula based on the delighted Scottish MSM rhetoric re Scotlands “scrounger-state” utterings. Hence another Yoon reason to stay will crumble.
@ K1
The yoons are fighting Indyref2. They started way back at the beginning of last year when it dawned on them that support for independence never went away. It will be like this till we finally dissolve this toxic union.
@Thrawn.
For paying attention, Zero out of ten.
Full Fiscal Disclosure is needed to shine light on the Unions Ponzi scheme and end it.
NOW. First Minister’s Questions.
Scottish Parliament TV Live:-
http://www.scottishparliament.tv/
NI (2 million pop) raises £28Billion in taxes + £14billion (50%) from (us) Westminster Unionists (for their votes) = £42Billion. Paid for their bigotry and sectarianism ruining their economy.
The equivalent of Scotland (5.2Million) getting the £54Billion it raises + £27Billion (50%) = £81Billion.
That’s why DR Clegg loves the Union so much, brainwashed in bigotry and greed from the day they were born. Lying hypocrites. Foote in his mouth.
FMQs :
What’s she like that ‘Vote NO’ Deputy Deadwood!
It was good to hear a robust defence of Scotland by Sturgeon in the face of labour yooner calling ‘independence dead’.
What are the labour figures in their budget…we keep on waiting.
Vote labour event mentioned in Edinburgh last night by the FM just to rub in how awful labour in Scotland really is.
Well done ‘the nippy sweetie’ 🙂
OT
and I know the users of this site are hardly likely to be taken in by obituaries of our bettrs
but sometimes it helps to laugh -and cry – at the same time
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/03/08/remember-when-nancy-reagan-raided-a-south-central-crack-house/
@ Murray McCallum
She might go for that, she is German herself
Thrawn says:
10 March, 2016 at 11:55 am
“Some pretty big reasons why an 11% UK deficit while serious can not be compared to the seriousness of an independent Scotland having a 10% deficit”
Thrawn, do you not know how percentages work? 11% of GDP will always be bigger as a percentage than 10% of GDP. 65 million people who each owe £1000 are still in a worse position than 300 people who each owe £300. Just because there are more of them doesn’t put them in a stronger position. 4 out of 10, or as you might say 98% well done.
The yield on 10 year Irish Gov bond is lower than that for the UK.
The Irish government are able to finance their debt for less than the UK.
I hope they’ve got a big mop in the parly for wiping up the union blood all over the floor. The three stooges left in a puddle, again
Well done Nicola
We won’t know exactly how an independent Scotland will fare in the future until independence is regained. Only then will we know just how much Westminster has been hiding from us. Remember the Crone Report. Britnats certainly don’t know an independent Scotland’s future but continue their Project Fear predictions anyway. Not only that, they demand the SNP give detailed economic analysis of that unpredictable future based on unreliable machinations from institutions such as GERS.
The britnat media takes every opportunity to sow doubt about Scotland’s future, again based on unreliable predictions, yet pounces on any future negative scenarios it believes an independent Holyrood government will face in the future, whilst, again, demanding that the future government of Scotland provides an impossibly perfect economic blueprint for that future.
Fear, fear and more fear.
“Because it’s this or talk about the fucking Scottish Six again.”
Why the Scottish Six? You get more indepth analysis reading The Secret Seven.
The Republic of Ireland budget deficit was 32pc of GDP in 2011 and 12pc the year after, but was just 1.8pc of national income in 2015.
As I said above, Ireland can finance its debt at a lower rate of the UK.
Normal countries have economic cycles, recessions and even depressions. The fact is they take steps and implement policies in their own self-interest to limit the impact and generally come out stronger.
Also does no one find it odd that Iceland is being held up as economic model to show how the UK can survive outside of the EU?
Remember the days when proud Scots but Brits laughed at Ireland and Iceland?
To miss-quote some one or other, desperate is as desperate does, or says in this case!
So, despite oil being worth bugger all at the moment, even using the HMRC’s questionable methods Scottish pro rata revenue has only fallen to the same level, or marginally below, that of the rUK for the first time since the 1980s.
And that means Scotland cannot afford independence????
I think Dr. Jim’s comment wins the Internet today.
More BBC propaganda comedy there, BBC r4 news prelim thingee, that says they’re interviewing two 14 year old Scots, to see what they think of Brexit, unless my medication’s wearing off.
Why the UKOk fcuk would a grotesque outfit like r4 news, owned by Nic “Wheezy” Robinson, utterly detests everything Scottish democracy, blacks out anything Scottish, think to interview two 14 year old Scottish kids?
But I may have gone UKOK nuts.
Heard John Swinney put up a decent defence on Radio Scotland this morning but again, like all SNP MP’s/MSP’s being interviewed he was far to gentle with the interviewer. Why not preface answers to each and every one of the many fatuous nonsensical questions with variations on the theme of “Well, I appreciate that a rabid unionist such as yourself working for the state propaganda service is only too happy to talk Scotland down at every turn, however the facts are”. It won’t win over any loony yoons but it will be an inspiration for the rest of us. The BBC and those working for it who have sold out to the London elites should be treated with undisguised contempt at every opportunity.
@Thrawn
“A newly independent Scotland would not and therefore we would have to pay massive premium to ensure the market would lend to us to finance that deficit”
Not according to Standard & Poor’s:
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/sp-independent-scotland-could-get-decent-credit-rating-1438195
“The UK has a very long proven track record of paying its debts and therefore the interest on those debts reflect that.”
Yet it lost its coveted AAA rating in 2013 and still hasn’t got it back:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21554311
“The UK has a far larger economy than independent Scotland and is therefore ultimately has more scope within it for the govt to recover money to ultimately finance that deficit – that difference would also be priced into any interest rates Scotland would get”
If creditworthiness is based on size then why, out of the only 10 countries in the world to hold AAA ratings across all 3 main ratings agencies, do 6 of them have populations under 10 million?
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/rating
As for currency, well I’m afraid to say a team of Nobel-prize winning economists tend to disagree with you:
http://www.gov.scot/resource/0041/00419554.pdf
All this talk of % and GERS etc means little to me I am in this fight for independence because its right. Many smaller countries than us with half the resources flourish and so will we. The unionist want Scotland to remain a client state as it suites there lack of bottle and lack of imagination.
Can someone explain
Aberdeen bypass project
The construction of the Aberdeen bypass has been reclassified from a private to a public sector project.
It follows an Office for National Statistics (ONS) review after a tightening of EU rules around publicly-funded building programmes.
Does that mean if is included in the GERS Figures this year?
Do PFI projects in England get included on their balance sheet?
Hope there has been full disclosure checks AND child protection risk assessments etc,
.. before the BBC (esp’ Londonshire staff) are allowed to approach any 14 year olds, just saying like.
Yes Fran…I was overstating…the obvious, for those not of this church. 😉
How much tax revenue and import cost savings is the new gas field projected to amount to? Even if prices stay at current levels.
Does anyone know if a population percentage share of the sale of assets like the post office are allocated to Scotland in the GERS figures? Or are they only considered English assets?
.. before the BBC (esp’ Londonshire staff) are allowed to approach any 14 year olds, just saying like.
Its such a loony bin, I probably did imagine it. It starts in a couple of minutes so…
Why this crew alone are approaching 14 year old Scots, is very weird though. They were furious yesterday at the horrid SNP hypocrites and jolly annoying types for not voting for Sunday shopping.
Thrawn @ 11.55am
You’ve fallen, as BritNats are wont to do, in to the trap of thinking GERS is an estimate of how an independent Scotland will do (rather than a Tory construct designed to scare us into assuming we’d do badly). At best, it estimates how a fiscally autonomous Scotland inside the UK, which chose not to change its tax and spend policies from the UK’s, would do, and that only within one framework out of many. The framework makes, inevitably, some highly dubious, both morally and in terms of realpolitik, assumptions, for example that Scotland would have a net liability to rUK equal to its population share of UK debt and pay £3-4 billion a year in interest.
Turning to the counterfactual, ‘what if Yes had wonand Scotland had become a normal country with powers equal to those of other small West European countries?’: again you make a host of highly contentious assumptions. You are wrong to think a Scottish currency or the Euro are the only two options. If (as I hope was the case) the Scottish govt never expected a formal union and aimed for sterlingisation and zero debt (as the UK govt made clear, Scotland would have no obligations re UK govt bonds) all along, Scotland would start with zero debt and a deficit lower than 10%, even if GERS figures are accurate guesses (since not paying debt interest).
If this was an agreed result (in return for an agreed timetable on Trident removal say), as with Russia and the other countries of the former Soviet Union, then it is ludicrous to say, as BritNats did, that investors would be outraged that Scotland had no debt and would refuse to lend to it unless it took on debt of 80% its total GDP.
Countries like the Baltic countries are, indeed, an interesting case in point. They became independent in far more difficult circumstances than Scotland would have, were we to have regained our independence this year, and have suffered tremendous blows along the way, not least from the banking crisis. Yet none has gone under and in fact all are much better off economically than they were when benefiting from the strength and security of the Soviet Union. But according to Unionists, Scots could never hope to emulate these hardy Baltic people, we aren’t fit to lace their boots, being a bunch of feckless alcoholic spongers. Feck off.
Good to see Ireland being used as a poster boy for Scottish independence…given that their budget deficits resulted in 14% drop in GDP, 15% unemployment and that to even survive as a country they had to receive a massive bailout the terms of which included IMPOSED austerity and oversight by EU/IMF of the Irish govern
I heard all this anti independence guff from the unionists when I was growing up in the sixties.
And when oil was found in the seventies, we were then told by the unionists it wouldn’t last very long, we Scots were being greedy because we wanted to keep all the oil for ourselves.
And that we couldn’t afford to be independent because the high oil price would make our exports unaffordable.
There is simply no situation the unionists won’t contorted to make it fit their anti-Independence.
Thrawn just likes to troll in and out btl…never comes back with any arguments to the comments that directly address any point Thrawn thinks he/she is making.
isn’t it interesting who shows up btl when Scotland’s financial capabilities as described by unionists is completely debunked by Wings?
Yes, here they come:
The Yoonatic Cringe.
Gavin Greig says:
“I think Dr. Jim’s comment wins the Internet today.”
seconded. someone tweet that link forever.
Odd how the Brits have no memory regards IMF intervention in their own economy?
Particularly odd as it’s a common British trait to live in the past.
Nana says:
10 March, 2016 at 12:26 pm
I hope they’ve got a big mop in the parly for wiping up the union blood all over the floor. The three stooges left in a puddle, again
Well done Nicola
How predictable. True to form, the yoons completely over-egged the puddin again and gave NS an opportunity to hit back and frame them in yet another “better together” huddle, talking Scotland down. Just how daft are these yoons? They just cannot help themselves.
Todays headlines in the Daily Record et al were despicable, but keep em coming. The longer this nonsense goes on, the more that people will figure out that this so-called sorry state for Scotland has actually come about as part of the union and can actually be interpreted as and indication that an independent Scotland would be no worse, and potentially a lot better than “the strongest devolved parliament in the world”. :).
@ Thrawn
“…an independent Scotland having a 10% deficit”
Perhaps. But that is a DIRECT RESULT of being locked into this corrupt Union. And if you think that is how Scotland would be AFTER Indy then you will have to prove it. And when I say “prove it” I mean show us the books; every single damn page of every single account in the UK Treasury. Income tax receipts. Corporation Tax receipts. VAT receipts. The excise duties from all UK ports. Fuel duties. National Insurance contributions. Tourist revenues. What’s the rUK’s real-terms revenue-per-capita growth rate compared to Scotland’s? And then get the figures as to how much indy Scotland would save in servicing UK debts, UK WMDs, UK HoL, UK vanity projects that Scotland pays for but receives little to no direct benefit.
Get ALL the figures from the Treasury’s Pink Book (you’ll never get near such info, btw) before making such dim-witted pronouncements.
So, and I’ll type this slowly for you–GERS is NOT the full picture of Scotland’s balance sheet. It is NOT a blanace sheet at all.
But you don’t give a hee-haw about that inconvenient truth because you’re not interested in the actual facts. Anything to spin your Yoon pish is all you and your low-thinking ilk are interested in. Away and bother a hedge.
Thrawn
Neglecting tax haven Luxembourg, Ireland is third in Europe for GDP per capita only behind Norway with its oil fund and Iceland who jailed the bankers.
Also the bail out of British banks by America dwarfed the amount Ireland received from the IMF (which it has BTW paid back) and also dwarfed the token amount put up by the UK Government.
And incidentally, that good ‘English’ bank Barclays, got a bigger bailout from America on the QT than RBS and BoS combined.
If you tolerate this, your children will be next.
Therein lies the problem with tolerance.
Thrawn says:
10 March, 2016 at 1:04 pm
Good to see Ireland being used as a poster boy for Scottish independence…given that their budget deficits resulted in 14% drop in GDP, 15% unemployment and that to even survive as a country they had to receive a massive bailout the terms of which included IMPOSED austerity and oversight by EU/IMF of the Irish govern
What the what does that mean?
All harks back to UKOK vote NO rage and its Scottish banks what brought world economy to its knees.
Osborne bailed out the Bank of Ireland spivs too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11807769
One of his first acts of teamGB greatness, 7 thousand million British squid handed to a foreign bank, shock. He’s probably connected with all kinds of toryboy finance.
Sorry the end of my last post should have read as fit their anti-independence agenda.
Its amazing the stupidity of unionists, don’t they realise that they are contradicting themselves when they effectively tell people that Scotland is an economic basket case and can’t afford to be independent Nation.
And they then go on to tell everyone how good the union is for Scotland.
Regarding Norway, £7 a pint is fine when your will be paid twice what you would get in the UK. It also stops binge drinking.
Given that Luckhurst once sacked me, I can say with complete objectivity that the man’s a twat.
Colin Rippey says:
10 March, 2016 at 10:24 am
Day 2, still going, keep it up.
And here’s me thinking all of the WoS “GERS is a load of rubbish” articles from a few month’s ago would have convinced all your followers that yesterday’s report was not worth considering.
So why the angst?
Ruby replies
Why the angst on your part? Worried that more & more people might read Wings and be convinced that “GERS is a load of rubbish” and then start to wonder if you are trying to con them with your Excel spreadsheets?
…less and less people listen to or read this unionist guff!
More and more people are aware of the income sent South for almost 40 years. They are also aware that it was blown on vanity projects by Westminster. They now question the lack of an Oil fund that would have turned this price downturn into a blip on a nation’s growth.
Unionist spin is predictable but thankfully weaker. We are winning so stay positive.
Oh, and by the way, Thrawn, the UK with an 11% deficit that year would have been more like a 12%+ deficit without Scotland’s healthier finances being taken into account.
It must be terrifying imagine what the rUK finances would have looked like over the past 30 years if Scotland had been independent.
Maybe we should make a graph?
Today’s First Minister’s Questions.
Now Archived and may be viewed here on Scottish Parliament TV:-
http://tinyurl.com/gnq6zz2
The message I get from Unionists is that Scotland is shite inhabited by totally useless people.
Not exactly the message needed to win votes! But hey do I care?
Article in the Herald about Independence Convoy.
http://tinyurl.com/oga42nj
Cause we got a little old convoy
Rockin’ through the night.
Yeah, we got a little old convoy,
Ain’t she a beautiful sight?
Come on and join our convoy
Ain’t nothin’ gonna get in our way.
We gonna roll this truckin’ convoy
‘Cross the R-U-K.
Convoy!
Man, another 8 weeks of Yoon pish to go, where’s Michael J. Fox when you need him.
IR borrowed too much money on the London lending markets. Westminster supported fraudsters who fund the Tory Party. IR has higher pensions/benefits and is fairer. It doesn’t sanction the most vulnerable and starve them to death. It has higher unemployment (economic activity) because in IR women traditionally,leave the employment market when they young children. No abortion or free contraceptives.
@Thrawn,
Just to deal with the neo-liberal beliefs you buy into..
“The UK has a very long proven track record of paying its debts and therefore the interest on those debts reflect that.”
Sorry when has the UK paid off its debts? (except for those denimintaed in a foreign currency). The national debt has increased year on year since the inception of the BoE. The fact is that the UK can borrow and pile up deficits for ever more and will always be able to issue bonds (not that it has to). The reason for this is that it is a currency issuing nation and since the end of the 70s and fixed exchange rates denominates its debt in its own currency. It cannot default. That’s the reason. If you need more evidence look at Japan.
This ‘track record’ thing is hogwash.
“The UK has a far larger economy than independent Scotland and is therefore ultimately has more scope within it for the govt to recover money to ultimately finance that deficit ”
Again the currency issuing nation can finance debt in its own currency forever. The ‘recover money’ comment is rubbish. Have you heard of the asset purchase facility used by the BoE? You might want to look at the UK’s private debt as a proportion of GDP. When you do, what you see is a ponzi economy. You’ve been taught by mainstream media that we have a govt debt crisis, yet this sits around 80% of our GDP. Our private debt hovers around 400% of GDP – this is the harbinger of the next economic crisis in this wonderful centre of sound finance you call the UK.
“– Currency: I know you don’t want to think about it but it is real. Either Scotland would have an independent currency (even if you called it the pound the markets would treat it as independent if the rUK and BoE refused to guarantee debt issued in it) or be part of the Euro. With 10% deficits the value of an idependent currency would tumble…great for whisky and our other high value exporters not so great for imports which would include ”
Yes an independent currency is in my opinion the only way to go for us to prosper. In its worst case that the currency does devalue it is normally pretty short lived – just look at Iceland (not that I’m comparing Scotland with them). So yes our exports would perform well and imports might be more expensive (ever heard of import substitution?) but history has shown things rebalance . The neo-liberals just point to Zimbabwe and people like yourself lap it up.
Also what is the deficit spending used for? In the UK it is used to bail out financial institutions. What has been long suggested here is that the deficit spending is used to pump up the productive economy to boost exports and Jobs at home thereby increasing tax receipts.
As for the point about population, when are you moving to China?
Here’s a few links which might help dispel some of the myths foisted on you by the likes of the times, telegraph etc.
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=7838
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=25895
Jack my kindle doesn’t support whatever that format is…so here’s the you tube link for Scottish government/first ministers questions. Latest FMq’s at top of list, tends to be up quickly after live broadcast. Worth bookmarking.
m.youtube.com/results?q=first%20minister’s%20questions%20&sm=1
@ Kev
“Yet it lost its coveted AAA rating in 2013 and still hasn’t got it back”
and yet the market continue to lend at the UK at rates that are lower than most of their european colleagues…but I guess all those international institutional investors are loony yoonies too
“If creditworthiness is based on size then why, out of the only 10 countries in the world to hold AAA ratings across all 3 main ratings agencies, do 6 of them have populations under 10 million?”
Size matters or so your wife tells me but it also matters that you don’t have a history of defaulting on your debts or running big deficits. If Scotland came out the traps running a budget surplus or manageable deficit (which it could very easily do all it has to do is cut services or raise taxes) then it too would have a nice AAA rating. I am not and would never say that Scotland could not be a viable credit worthy country…I am saying that with 10% deficit and a majority party who show no inclination to address it other than to blame perfidious Albion, it would not…at least not for a prolonged period.
“As for currency, well I’m afraid to say a team of Nobel-prize winning economists tend to disagree with you:”
The link you attached is a Scottish Government wish list…I am absolutely sure that an independent Scotland would love a currency union and I’m even prepared to happily concede it would be the most sensible option for both parties…unfortunately it is not in our power to control. The rUk electorate would never accept a currency union with Scotland…even if in the short term it would (marginally – any disruption to Scottish/rUK trade would have a disproportionately greater effect on Scotland than rUK even if the absolute numbers went in the other direction) ) be in their interests…why would they want to help a country that had just rejected them… the same argument applies to brexiteers btw.
Right let’s attempt that link again without removing the http:
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=first%20minister's%20questions%20&sm=1
good series of articles. However, can we stop referring to some of these unionist nutters in terms of self-hating/self-loathing Scots, proud Scots but… , Scottish cringers, etc. The fact would appear to be that in terms of national identity, we have in Scotland many ‘nationalities’ which includes Poles, Pakistanis, Irish, Lithuanians, etc etc. In terms of the specifically Union v independence debate, we also have a lot of nationalities on both sides but in the media, on the soap boxes, in nationalities terms we have Scots and Brits. That’s the way I see it. I may be wrong, but I see the Daily Record and Herald and Scotsman editors, for example, as British. I have no problem with them being British. It’s not for me but you wave your flag all you like, and indeed go abroad and sit in an ex-pat pub (probably an Irish pub) and chat about Brit stuff and how great the Empire was all you like. I’ll be in a regular pub talking to anyone who isn’t banging on about how great their country is or how great their empire was.
I can’t be bothered with spreadsheets, Gers figures or any of that stuff I prefer simple questions.
Why is Scotland not able to be an Independent country like any other country?
If Scotland is such a disaster then why would voters in the RUK be begging us to stay?
The question people have to ask themselves is will the next London/NYC based banking crisis, coming this way soon, also be bailed out by quantitative easing and further austerity cuts (aka making us the plebs pay for it)?
Or, if so, how about the the one after that?
Or will the whole rotten edifice, at long last, be brought down?
Especially with a backdrop of BRIC countries setting up a rival international banking fund and China gearing up to wrest the international finance services hubs away from America and London as we speak.
Incidentally the UK was the third European country to join the AIIB after Switzerland and Luxembourg, much against the USA’s wishes, prompting Germany, France, Italy et al to quickly follow suit.
Guess that is an indication that in reality Whitehall/Treasury mandarins know which way the fortune cookie is going to crumble (sic). And who they will have to go cap in hand to in the future.
The rUk electorate would never accept a currency union with Scotland…even if in the short term it would (marginally – any disruption to Scottish/rUK trade would have a disproportionately greater effect on Scotland than rUK even if the absolute numbers went in the other direction) ) be in their interests…why would they want to help a country that had just rejected them…
England will do as they told by their toryboy masters. If Scotland wants to use sterling, who can stop that, why would rich toryboy’s harm a huge Scotland market and so on
BBC r4 pretty dull at Dyce Academy! Nice to hear Scottish accents that are not upper class Scots accents on the BBC England rules the waves channel.
One more Scottish upper class twit, totally bamboozled by all this bally democracy going on around him.
http://archive.is/AEafn
Plebs are bad enough but plebs with opinions?! The outrage of it all.
Firstly Thrawn:
‘Size matters or so your wife tells me but …’
What the fuck is that?
Secondly:
‘…why would they want to help a country that had just rejected them… the same argument applies to brexiteers btw.’
Real politik would obviously trump infantile political posturing by that point in the proceedings. Do you seriously believe we are married to a vengeful lover?
Not all splits end in hammers through the heid. Grow up. Your cringe is strong.
Martin Luther King said “I have a dream” and America and the world said “Yeah! sounds great”
The people who own America said “Well let’s get that idea right out of your head” and crushed it
The SNP said, well you know the rest
crisiscult says:
10 March, 2016 at 1:51 pm
good series of articles. However, can we stop referring to some of these unionist nutters in terms of self-hating/self-loathing Scots, proud Scots but… , Scottish cringers, etc. The fact would appear to be that in terms of national identity, we have in Scotland many ‘nationalities’ which includes Poles, Pakistanis, Irish, Lithuanians, etc etc.
Ruby replies
When anyone uses the term ‘Scots’or ‘English’ in any political debate I read Scottish elecotorate or English Electorate. Poles, Pakistanis, Irish, Lithuanians living in Scotland are Scottish voters. I think it’s fair enough to refer to them as Scots.
As for the ‘Daily Record and Herald and Scotsman editors’plus all the Unionist politicians I see them as anti-Scottish. They won’t like that but sadly it’s true.
@Thrawn, the real important issues that you you seem to be completely ignoring is that if Scotland was in charge of its own deficit we could deal with it any way we choose. For example, not having trident and making the big multi nationals pay their tax.
Instead we have to put up with the Tory solutions, which include slashing benefits to disabled people, forcing kids into poverty, increasing reliance on foodbanks and privatising assets that we, the public, own.
All the while allowing big business to avoid taxes, cutting income tax for millionaires and investing eye watering amounts of money on weapons of mass destruction.
It’s your decision if you prefer the Tory option, that’s your call, you are entitled to hold whatever moral values you choose. But don’t expect many on here to agree with you.
Sometimes I think we are being totally conned by Westminster with the aid of their media.
For example when will we get the result of the Chilcott Enquiry?
I know I’m off topic but I’ve run out of things to say about Gers.
I recieved a leaflet from Alison Dickie today but nothing from Ruth Davidson which is strange because everyone outwith the constituency where Ruth is standing has received a leaflet.
Alison is doing Cafe Politics in the Serenity Cafe on 14th March.
Aye the UKOK broad shouldered one is far too wee, too puny, too poor and too stupid to leave the EU. I am sure Lizzie Windsor’s Estate Managers would thoroughly agree with that sentiment since they have been not just sponging off the Brits but off the EU as well.
It does kind of make me wonder what the motive is behind the Suns headline about Lizzy being for a Brexit. The very idea that she would pass up on millions in EU subsidies beggars belief. Altruism and Royals are two words that shouldn’t be mentioned in the same sentence in my view.
Meanwhile the Disreporting Jackie crew informed us about another fermers demo since they didn’t get their money on time it seems. I wonder if Lizzy got hers on time????
The Polish and Greek PM who don’t want migrants. Twa faced hypocrites.
Scotland makes and produces things and exports them. The rest of the U.K does not. It relies on Banking service to service the debt. Creating more debt.
Scotland exports more and imports less than the rest of the U.K. (Pro rata). Wesminster holds Scotland back. Eg taxes the Oil sector at 60/80%, losing exports and thousands of jobs in Scotland. Scotland was exporting £40Billion and importing £40Billion. No balance of payments deficit. The rest of the UK has a major balance of payments deficit, increasing the debt.
The illegal wars, the banking fraud. Scotland rejected Thatcher laissez-faire with good reason. Cost Scotland £Billions.
@Thrawn
I wasn’t going to dignify your childish, illiterate pish with a response, but I’m genuinely worried for you. Are you ok, hun?
Britain’s Financial Crisis
1976: Labour government forced to apply to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for a loan of nearly $4 billion.
IMF negotiators insisted on deep cuts in public expenditure, greatly affecting economic and social policy.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/themes/imf-crisis.htm
Yet, despite a deep scan across the internet, I could find no suggestion from anyone that Britain was no longer able to function as a sovereign, independent state.
How bizarre!
The only thing we can say for absolute certain is that if Scotland’s economy is healthier than the UK’s at any given point then the case for independence has been destroyed, and if it’s less healthy than the UK’s then the case for independence has been destroyed.
Presumably if Scotland’s economy is as healthy as the UK’s, then the case for independence is still destroyed? 🙂
On a the currency front, post-Indy, personally I thought the logical progression would be something like that used by the Irish Free State / Republic of Ireland. Start with Sterlingisation, before later on moving to a Sterling-backed currency board (arguably we’re part way there already when you think about Scottish bank notes), still later remove the currency board and have a fully floating currency. Optionally, at some very distance point, consider joining the Euro …
Surprise, surprise, Scotland’s economy isn’t what it should be.
Better Together, was the offer. I’m still waiting for delivery! Or, did they lie about that too? They were actually planning Worse Together. The evidence is pointing that way!
Most things that are wrong with Scotland can be laid at WM’s door. Past, present, and future.
The solution to most of our problems can be found by altering spending priorities, fostering growth and judicious tax changes. No significant progress will be made without getting WM out of the loop.
BBC staff approaching young boys is quite common. That’s why there is a need for ‘named persons’ to call them out.
@Ken500
Yes, I have frequently advocated concentrating on production levels pro rata and on balance of trades, they are far harder to fiddle than the internal accountancy practices used e.g. regional GVA calculation.
It is also inconceivable that an independent Scotland would continue to give away potential value added earnings to England by allowing much of its produce to be processed, packaged and exported from there.
“I can’t be bothered with spreadsheets, Gers figures or any of that stuff I prefer simple questions.
Why is Scotland not able to be an Independent country like any other country?
If Scotland is such a disaster then why would voters in the RUK be begging us to stay?”
Killer questions, Ruby, which UKOKians simply can’t answer.
Why don’t we go round to @Thrawn’s house and take his money from him because being more of us than him he thinks that’s the acceptable way for things to be
You are hereby deemed irrelevant @Thrawn so give us your money to spend as we choose on whatever we want
No No No you can’t answer back that would be extremist behaviour and not tolerated by we superior beings
Catch yerself on
Fair enough you see it your way crisicult, but you can’t deny the reality that there is a very strong cringe factor at play with those of the unionist persuasion who are in fact living in Scotland. One valid and useful definition of anyone living in Scotland is that they are Scottish.
Anyone who voted in the referendum was defined thus. Regardless of national origin they are the people of Scotland. Which is why that phrase is continually used by our MP’s when describing everyone who lives here.
Why self hating/loathing? Because those who indulge in rationalising and justifying the lie that our country (and by definition that is the people who inhabit said country) is not capable of running our own economy on the basis of skewed figures put together to show just how fucking poor we would be and by extension how fucking incapable we would be without the help of those self same liars who put the skewed figures together in the first place, have to be suffering peculiarly low self esteem to maintain that lie in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
In fact they don’t think they have what it takes to live in an independent Scotland, they are scared of our neighbours reactions to us wanting to run our own affairs, and rather ‘perish the thought’ that Scotland could thrive without said neighbours interference.
You gotta have a pretty low opinion of yourself if you persist with beliefs that have been forensically stripped of all merit or factual accuracy and yet continue with said beliefs regardless. Fair enough it’s more a ‘fear’ thing at its core, but those who fear ‘hate’ to be challenged and tend to lash out at those they blame for upsetting their views rather than adjusting or adapting. They become more entrenched and reactive the more they feel their world view is under assault.
So, I disagree that we should stop talking about the cringe, self loathing/hating. We need to talk about this openly. We need to understand what we’re up against. Because we need to live with each other…warts n all when the job’s done.
@thrawn
Aye I couldn’t agree more with you UKOK is too stupid and too wee etc to be borrowing money, China with its one Billion plus souls on the other hand, maybe you should start learning Mandarin. UKOK Govt more than once had to print money to buy up its own junk Bonds because Johnny Foreigner Financial institutions didn’t want them.
Of course getting the Chinese to finance the building of those Nuke Stations and that other UKOK White Elephant HS2 does come with the price tag of impoverishing future generations and hiking up their Lecky Bills as well. But what do you UKOK Propagandists care.
The Polish and Greek PM who don’t want migrants. Twa faced hypocrites.
Much of the drivers behind Brexit in England is immigration. UKIPers, shire toryboys etc are feeding on opposition to immigration into England.
Same UKOK Farage type crew say EU opposition in their Scotland region is different because its England that has the most immigrants.
This is partly why BBC etc coverage is so odd, like a big doughnut, with immigration pulsing away in the middle but its too tricky to tackle.
Its all another Crash Gordon Lab legacy, exploiting cheap, high skilled, high motivated, high educated eastern European’s to keep UK pay levels very low and thereby control inflation. If you’ve got stacks of cash, say like your average City slicking spiv, inflation can really harm your wealth.
Ofcourse and as per, Labour made no provision for any thing like the numbers of people they let immigrate to the UK, housing, schools, NHS, fcuk em, they can deal with it.
And here we UKOK are.
@galamcennalath
Pretty much. If GERS, which is a reflection of a devolved economy, isn’t so hot. Then when is better togetherness, pooling and sharing, broad shouldered protection in the instance of economic instability going to kick in?
We should be told. 😉
Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS)
Look long and hard at that title. Which government(s)?
It is not Scottish Government Expenditure and Revenue (SGER).
It is Scottish Government Expenditure and Revenue plus UK Government Expenditure and Revenue expended (supposedly) on Scotland’s behalf.
Think about that.
@Thrawn
You quote Nobel prize winning economists who are in denial. For example paul krugman still believes in loanable funds – that banks are intermediaries and that somehow we still have a fractional reserve banking system. This is completely fallacious. Banks don’t lend on reserves, they issue new money every time they lend. This is why QE didn’t work
So on and so forth those economists you cite know the textbooks but the textbooks don’t reflect the actual economy.
As for ratings agencies? It’s interesting that they downgraded japan to junk status because they saw it as acting irresponsibly in its large deficit spending. Japan had a lower rating than Botswana – a country it was supplying with emergency aid!
Funnily enough japan still issued bonds at v low rates. Why? Because the central bank controls the policy rate. Anyway if folk don’t buy bonds the central bank just buys them. People do buy the bonds and are continuing to do so around the world – even at negative interest rates. Why? Because it’s ultra safe and the return is guaranteed unlike the city of london banking system you cherish.
Just remember, the same rating agencies were giving the likes of enron a clean bill of health. You have been hoodwinked my friend.
bjsalba, I thought about it…
Spivs R Us.
Does anyone know if GERS deals with the issue of Scottish Revenues being booked by Companies with a nominal English base, or expected via English ports?
And are there any plans to fix this?
Apologies if this has been posted earlier.
Apparently Scotland is not such a basket case as our *ahem* beloved BBC/STV/SKY/MSM would actually have us all believe folks.
Here is a link to the H.M.R.C. site that shows the imports/exports for each region in the U.K. Now I am not one to gloat, O.K. I AM really, but if you like take a wee gander at the graph. There are 12 regions plus an unknown 😉 region. Of the 13 regions listed you will see that there are FIVE regions where the EXPORTS are greater than the IMPORTS.
In reverse order of difference between exports and imports they are:
5) Northern Ireland
4) North West
3) North East
2) Wales
1) Scotland
I admit that some folks may switch Scotland and Wales around here, it’s all about how you see the graphs. 😉
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx
Funny that don’t you think folks. I mean that Scotland is amongst the regions with the biggest difference between Exports and Imports in favour of income earned from Imports and yet BBC/STV/SKY/MSM have totally FAILED to mention this FACT. 😉
In order to spare their red faces I will refrain from mentioning those regions with the biggest gap between Imports and Exports. YEAH … like THAT was ever going to happen! 😀
1) South East
2) London
3) East
@G H Graham
Just to be clear the only reason uk had to go to the IMF was that we were still trying to maintain a fixed exchange rate with the dollar – hangover from Bretton woods. We had to borrow $ in order to keep parity rather than just abandoning the peg which we did later anyway.
Sadly that encouraged the monetarist view (incorrectly ) that govts were just like households and needed to balance the books.
That is only true if the govt commits to pegging it’s currency or having a fixed exchange rate with a foreign currency.
The uk since its ejection from the ERM in 1992 has had a floating currency. Scotland should do the same if it becomes independent.
Sorry for another O/T so quick but as some will recall there was a wee *ahem* shindig in Edinburgh last night for someone called Jeremy Corbyn. Here is a wee report on the event for those with an interest in that sort of thing.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/yeah-youre-making-me-a-crazy-chick?utm_term=.mlJL9jG45#.keDBy4agx
A few things from the *cough* event sort of stand out for me.
1) almost everyone on stage appears to not be able to shut up about how great the SNP are doing. 😀
2) Kezia Dugdale bought tickets but never turned up.
3) ticket price was £20 but by Wednesday they were trying to sell them for £5.
4) Kezia Dugdale’s name was NEVER mentioned once last night … apparently 😀
Arb, good find, anyone any clue as to the ‘unknown’ region?
***wanders off…’could it really be Brigadoon’…mumble mumble*** 😉
I can only assume K1 … and it is a complete and utter outside the box thought here, that it is possibly products/services that are produced/bought in by multiple regions and can not be pinned down to only one region. 😉
Time for my afternoon nap … think I’ll head off to the Darkened Room for a wee while. 😀
Aye maybe so Arb, would that include gambling and prostitution I wonder?
Enjoy the room, heatings on 🙂
I’ve not read all of the comments,so please ignore me if what I say has already been said.We have these figures out saying Scotland has a “black hole” in our fiscal arrangements now this has been caused by Westminster pure and simple.We are under Westminster’s rules and methods so any fiscal losses will have been caused by what they have said and done.It is also calculated by their method,does anybody really believe that we would have done the same mistakes they have? no I am certain we have enough brain power to learn from the mistakes of Westminster,they don’t have the brains,because all they do is plan for short-term wins at the ballot box.We cant run a country or anything on short terms just for political wins.We and indeed any country needs planning for the longer term,by all means have elections every 5 years,but let first lets get done were agreement is reached for the benefit of the whole country not for that small amount of self declared elites called political parties,when what is obvious is agreed,like social well-being hospitals,transport, roads and rails ports and industry,then we can get down to the little ideas that become BIG for those seeking power,and notoriety!
I think all these unionist paper editors must discuss together what the morning headline should involve and decide between themselves what adjective each one would use .
K1 says:
10 March, 2016 at 3:39 pm
Aye maybe so Arb, would that include gambling and prostitution I wonder?
Enjoy the room, heatings on 🙂
Somehow I think these *ahem* businesses are an additional wee *cough* extra on top of everything else K1. 🙂
I will enjoy the Darkened Room thanks. It is lovely and cozy just now and the kettle has just boiled so now its time for a nice wee cuppa. 😀
O/T
According to the world health organisation definition the uk no longer has a nhs
and the lib dems happily voted for privatisation
http://archive.is/dN0wC
Thrawn says:
10 March, 2016 at 1:04 pm
Good to see Ireland being used as a poster boy for Scottish independence…
Ireland is doing ok. And whatever their economy is doing at least the Irish have earned some respect in the world. They dont grovel to their imperial masters in London any more, they told them to stuff it. And I dont hear them pleading to come back into the UK. Funny that.
@Arbroath1320 – What a brilliant graph.
I always knew the crap about London ‘supporting’ the rest of the country was false as they never took into account the imports from the rUK.
Water from Wales, food and energy from Scotland.
More evidence of us being in the black.
@nana
Has anyone informed the independent or the WHO that there is no such thing as a UK NHS?
arbroath1320 3.23
Note that
heedtracker 1.56
provided this
http://archive.is/AEafn
a ‘scathing’ commentary on the event by wellknown Jockholm Syndrome sufferer, Alex Massie –
a ‘scathing’ commentary on an event he never actually attended!
I’m guessing Liz that, just like Cross rail the London super sewer and underground upgrades to name but three major engineering projects, Scotland is *ahem* allocated a *cough* share of London and South East deficit because we all *ahem … cough* benefit from it! 😀
Don’t forget all this hapenned whilst under Westminster rule and while the tories sat on their hands while the oil price dropped. An independent Scotland would have stepped in to help the oil companies and cou ter act WM lack of action.
@inkall
That’s a very good question, my guess would be probably not as it might be just a little too taxing for them to find out the actuality.
mike cassidy says:
10 March, 2016 at 4:47 pm
arbroath1320 3.23
Well its just this absolute absurd private school boy buffoonery rage at everyone saying and doing things that they do not like, that makes it rather special.
Wonder what the twerps thought about the yoon thugs that attacked kids in George Square the night of the ref and anyone else they didn’t like the look of in the surrounding streets
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29288249
BBC liars in routine UKOK action.
Just watched question time at Holyrood. Nicola was on top form as she destroyed the conservative/lab our alliance when they slandered their own country and tried to do it down. I hope the cleaners were wearing protective clothing when they were mopping up the blood of Ruth and Kezia after that mauling.
Its great to see the SNP stand up for Scotland while the others hide behind the press and their Westminster masters. Scottish Conservative party Scottish Labour party what a laugh they are pathetic. Vote SNP 1 & 2.
Aye right enough Merv
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldwTwxm-DMg&feature=youtu.be
Please don’t go, Scotland …
http://moflomojo.blogspot.com/2014/07/please-dont-go.html