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The sharp end

Posted on April 04, 2020 by

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  1. 04 04 20 08:57

    The sharp end | speymouth

274 to “The sharp end”

  1. dunks says:

    But… but… but.. England has an empire don’t you know!

  2. Willie says:

    The cartoon says it al.

    Frontline health workers sent into battle without the necessary equipment. Lions led by donkeys, little has changed over the last hundred and fifty years.

    Dulce et decorum et pro patria mori.

  3. winifred mccartney says:

    We can always use the nuclear weapons – it is all we spent our money on.

    Will that cure it?????

  4. Robert Louis says:

    In the spirit of the excellent humorous cartoon above, details of Dominic ‘let them die’ Cummings’ designs for ‘protective equipment’ have been leaked;

    On a serious note, however, it makes me very angry, that as low-lives like Matt Hancock, swan around playing Prime Minister, REAL workers on the ACTUAL dangerous front line do not have the equipment they need.

    A classic case of Tories doing what Tories do. As somebody above points out, ‘Lions Led by donkeys’.

  5. jjmnarelene says:

    Sadly, accurate.

  6. Robert Louis says:

    Winifred at 755am,

    Indeed. Billions squandered on the Trident ‘british’ vanity project, leaving an underfunded health service. Guns, but no gloves, Bombs but no beds, tanks but no tests, Nukes but not enough nurses.

    The UK has enough money, it’s just that the lying charlatans with power spend it on the wrong things.

  7. Capella says:

    RIP “market forces”.

  8. Sensibledave says:

    … I assume the same vitriol being applied to Westminster should be applied to the Scottish Government?

  9. Sharny Dubs says:

    In a nutshell. Continuing your usual high standards Mr Cairns. Well done.

    Stay safe all.

  10. Mike d says:

    Willie. Sheep led by donkeys more apt.

  11. Golfnut says:

    @ Dave the hypocrite.

    The Scottish Gov only have their pocket money to play with, Westminster controls the economic levers, the BOE and it is they who decided to spend £200 billion on Trident.
    Enough said I think.

  12. Helena Brown says:

    If only we were French, or perhaps Russian.
    I keep hearing about this changing everything, sadly I very much doubt it.
    The one thing about the (ahem) British State, is the longevity of its spy network, hopeless outside Britain but excellent at controlling the population within. The best we can hope for is a change of government aka 1945.

  13. Sinky says:

    Another great cartoon. Going to watch Leaked Riddoch’s video on Declaration of Arbroath at 9am.

    Scotsman only has a Unionist politician writing on the 1320 document while Herald gives that task to Unionist Mark South who gives half the article to the well known historian Kevin Hague.

    Such a parcel of rogues we have in our newspapers while our London centric TV broadcasters completely ignore the Declaration of Arbroath and the 1820 Radical Rising while they gush over the Royals.

  14. Bill McLean says:

    Oh dear Sensible at 0816 – except Holyrood has no control over Westminster war-mongering, defence policy, foreign policy – you know the story no control over anything that diminishes “England’s world status” – hahaha. A bit of a joke and has been for a long time!

  15. Sensibledave says:

    Golf nut

    Pocket money?

    How much is the total Scottish budget?

    Does Holyrood set income tax levels?

    Are you really saying that the Scottish Government couldn’t have found say £100m to have ventilators and PPE in store in the event of an emergency – if it had chosen to do so? Don’t be silly.

    We can all discuss and criticise those with the power to make these types of decision, however, to turn it into something to do with Scottish independence is just inane.

  16. Bill McLean says:

    Oh dear sorry! ….. and I meant to add “your faux intellectualism lets you down again”

  17. Sensibledave says:

    Bill McLean

    I think you missed the analogy in the cartoon.

    I believe the intention was to demonstrate that those given the responsibility to deal with a problem were/are not given the resources to perform their role.

    But, as always, you see other things.

  18. Bill McLean says:

    I think that’s exactly what the cartoon meant to infer. I fear you have missed the target not the point! Do I have to explain further or would I be accused of “faux intellectualism” – a favourite phrase of yours. Why do arrogance and ignorance so often walk hand in hand?

  19. Effijy says:

    Watching the on-going farce that is the Tories inability
    To purchase and distribute PPE and Ventilators it looks
    Like Captain Manering from Dad’s Army is Bojo’s closest advisor.

    I fully expect that outstanding order for Desert Boots to arrive at
    An English Hospital any day now.

  20. Sensibledave says:


    The “faux intellectualism” comment was aimed specifically at Cammy – because he demonstrates, in almost every comment he writes, that he is such. Just have a look at the previous thread.

    Moving on, you have chosen to infer from the cartoon that the target is Westminster because it supports the concept, and costs of having a nuclear deterrent. I see absolutely no evidence of that. I do see a criticism of those on power for not providing the equipment for the “soldiers” to do the job we are asking them to do. Which is absolutely fair.

    Both Westminster and Holyrood are responsible for that if you wish to apportion “blame” for that.

  21. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    New film celebrating Declaration of Arbroath anniversary goes online.

    “National columnist Lesley Riddoch and filmmaker Charlie Stuart have teamed up “at the last minute”, as she said, to produce Declaration, the letter of liberty.

    Riddoch says the letter from Scotland to Pope John XXII was “probably the first declaration in medieval Europe to promote the idea that people are above kings, that a nation is its people and that any nation has the right to self-determination”.

    The coronavirus has effectively cancelled all the planned live celebrations of the event in Arbroath and across Scotland, and sadly the political climate appears to have prevented UK broadcasters from scheduling any significant TV coverage.

    Riddoch and director and editor Stuart decided to make a 30-minute video for web release, so the anniversary does not go completely unmarked.

    The film includes interviews with historians Fiona Watson, Tom Turpie and Billy Kay who discuss the significance of the document and the meaning of the text. There’s atmospheric filming around Arbroath, in Edinburgh and in Bannockburn House, with glimpses of the surviving medieval document in the National Library and a convincing replica.”

  22. Sinky says:

    The 1320 video by Lesley Riddoch’s is excellent.

    Brian doonthetoon is too kind to the BBC / Stv etc as such a programme should have been in the can months ago as it is clearly a political decision to ignore one of, if not the most important documents in Scottish history.

  23. Golfnut says:

    @ Dave the Hypocite.

    Scot Gov has already spent £100 million on mitigating westminster austerity, but you knew that and they had £2 billion in cuts to its pocket money. So what services should Scot Gov have cut to procure ventilators and ppe etc. The point you clearly ignored is that Westminster has the ability to pump cash into any project it chooses by virtue of putting a few digits into a computer as did with the 2008 crash. Scot Gov doesnt and you know that.

  24. Gary45% says:

    Cracking “Toon” Chris as always.
    Could have added Brenda dripping in jewels conducting her loyal subjects from afar.
    Great lines from others above RL @8.02
    Nice One.
    Gloves not Guns.
    Beds not Bombs.
    Tests not Tanks.
    Nurses not Nukes.

    Today would have been the day Arbroath would have shone a light on the world, once this ends the march will go on.

  25. mike cassidy says:

    A war hasn’t been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside.

  26. Rm says:

    Some of the words spoken in the 1320 Declaration are relevant today, but the religious side of it doesn’t work today, once we get rid of this virus then we can get rid of religion and royalty, Scotland will become a republican country and can write another declaration suitable for this modern times, it’s going to happen you can feel it building all the time, this virus will change the way lots of folk think, we’ll live our way in Scotland not another way.

  27. Bill McLean says:

    Sensible at 0917 – you missed again! Dear oh dear. I’m sure Cameron B is well able to defend himself against your criticisms without any input from me. Sad that someone who wants to bring knowledge to others is to be attacked in this way. Is this how mighty Britan kept it’s empire? I think, even you, know the answer to that……and of course it’s not true that Westminster squanders billions on “showing off” militarily to maintain it’s prestige and create terrorism! If you are a person of good intention why don’t you expend your energies on helping the good people in England to resolve the massive problems in their public services?

  28. Sensibledave says:

    Golf nut

    Sorry, that is just one eyed, biased rubbish.

    The Scottish government has billions to spend, and can choose what to prioritise. It can spend money on art projects or ventilators. Free prescriptions and university education or PPE. They could raise income tax – or not. They are all incredibly difficult and complex decisions – but they made them.

    To constantly seek others to “blame” whilst absolving the SNP Government is just the normal one eyed, biased claptrap.

  29. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Sinky at 9:50 am.

    You typed,
    “Brian doonthetoon is too kind to the BBC / Stv etc as such a programme should have been in the can months ago as it is clearly a political decision to ignore one of, if not the most important documents in Scottish history.”

    That quote in my comment was pasted from the article in The National. It was not my opinion. Perhaps I should have included this link as well.

  30. Republicofscotland says:

    Nice one Chris, adequately been destroying the NHS for a number of years. As Chomsky says, if you want to get rid of a government funded institution (In this case its the NHS) first you have to defund it (Westminster has been doing that for decades now).

    There will then be a public outcry for something to replace it, enter the private sector, job done.

    The unexpected arrival of Covid-19 has shown the NHS to be wanting in many areas, I’d imagine the Tories are heading for a backlash after this pandemic subsides.

    Its perfectly feesable that lives couldve been saved if the Tories weren’t obsessd with stripping the NHS down to the bare essentials, like they have been with all government funded public assets, and they had heeded the warnings of Exercise Cygnus, but they didn’t because they don’t care, and they never will.

    This is a stark reminder and wake up call that Scotland needs to be independent to protect its valued public services.

  31. James F. McIntosh says:

    Thank you Lesley and Charlie for this film, really enjoyed it. Nothing much has changed since then has it?.

  32. Bill McLean says:

    Have to go now Sensible but if you can’t see the target of the cartoon and are unable to acknowledge that what Westminster wastes on it’s vanity projects would make a remarkable difference to the response to Coronavirus I fear for the sanity of all of us. Golfnut is right – the SG expends it’s budget on the welfare of people in Scotland, whether you agree or not. What happened to the £300 million plus from the EU intended for Scottish hill farmers – now wouldn’t that have been a help?

  33. Republicofscotland says:

    Paywalled Times article, but according the Twitter feed, London has seized Covid-19 testing machines from a Dundee hospital to use in England.

    So much for all in this together.

    “UK Govt has siezed Covid19 testing machines from Dundee University, bought by them to test Scottish Health service workers and taken them to London instead. ”

    Like I keep saying, the only sure way to protect Scotlands interests is for Scotland to be independent. If not, infect royals will continue to use Scotland as a safehouse, and our vital medical equipment wil be removed to England whenever their PM wishes it so.

  34. Josef Ó Luain says:

    I’ll be accused, no doubt, of being a Russian dupe by at least one intellectual of our ken on here. I’ll take my chances, though, and recommend to all of those late evening viewers in need of a refreshing change in the presentation of state propaganda to tune to the, gone all American, Russia Today.

  35. ahundredthidiot says:

    Rm @10:15

    ‘get rid of religion’

    so, will that be a free Scotland then, will it?

    but you are right about one thing, we will be a different country after the virus…..and our descendants will pour scorn on us for our betrayal of freedom and democracy at the first sign of a bad flu.

    oh, and Scottish Independence… can forget about that, there are even people on here think BoJo the masterful PM is right to place us all under house arrest (I think fireproofjim called it ‘a period of self isolation which was quite correct’).

    There used to be a saying about fools and their money – the same now applies to fools and their freedom.

  36. Golfnut says:

    @ Dave the Hypocrite.

    One eyed biased claptrap, rubbish even.
    Again you ignore where the financial levers lie, Westminster. You ignore that Scotland’s pocket money is determined by Barnett consequential, Westminster spends £10 billion on Healthcare, Scotland gets £820 million, Westminster cuts spending on healthcare, Scotland gets less. That Scot Gov have robbed Peter to pay Paul has done no more than allow the SNHS to stand still, while your own has spiralled downwards.
    That aside, 2016 saw the largest pandemic resilience exercise carried out for 10 years, multiple failures where highlighted in procedures, equipment( ventilators) ICU availability and of course PPE. The UK gov buried this report, neither updating procedures or make any provision for additional equipment. Instead it continued to undermine the effectiveness of the NHS through budget constraints and policy decisions which saw huge numbers of staff leaving the service.
    One eyed biased claptrap lies squarely in your court.

  37. Sensibledave says:


    I note all the “whaboutery” and deflection.

    Was Westminster ready and prepared for Covid 19 … No!

    Was Holyrood ready and prepared for Covid 19 … No!

    Did both parliaments freely choose to spend money on other projects whilst not building up a cashe of Ventilators or PPE … Yes!

    If you choose to see Westminster to blame for absolutely everything that goes wrong in the world, or Scotland, then I feel really sorry for you.

  38. winifred mccartney says:

    Thank you to Lesley and Charlie for this film.

    It serves to remind us that we are not free and the Lordship of the English still stands and hides from us/or lies to us about our true history and culture.

  39. Grouse Beater says:

    Spot on, Chris. Wars get more tax money than nurses and doctors.

    Your essential weekend reading:

    A right-wing controlled pandemic:

  40. Jason Smoothpiece says:

    Good to see big Jackie Baillie get the number two job at British Labour in Scotland.

    Jackie a classic Labour type loyal to her English masters and completely thick, daft Dick at number one and daft Jackie at number two I take it Labour have really just given up.

    Good result for us British Labour in Scotland you’ve got to laugh.

  41. Sinky says:

    SIR Keir Starmer elected as leader of Labour Party and should treated with respect by according him his full establishment title on every occasion.

  42. Gary45% says:

    How about this Dave, rather than bitching about what the Scottish Government spends its “pocket money” on, join with is in either helping Scotland gain Independence, or how about helping Scotland get control of all revenues and resources, then you will get more money spent on roads etc.
    Like it or hate it, when it comes to pissing or spaffing money up against the wall, the British Empire are the world champs.
    Over to you Dave for some sensible reaction, but remember Scotland through no choice is lumped with someone else’s debt.

  43. Breeks says:

    Rm says:
    4 April, 2020 at 10:15 am
    Some of the words spoken in the 1320 Declaration are relevant today…

    The whole Declaration of Arbroath is a document of it’s time, and the religious component whether being written by a Bishop or recognised by the Pope must be seen in their contemporary context, and maybe it isn’t strictly relevant from our own perspective. It might be objectionable to some in our modern secular world, but 14th Century recognition by the Pope was THE International Recognition of it’s day.

    You have to distill the Declaration of Arbroath down to it’s essential principles, and separate the ephemeral principles which can be altered, from defining principles which are absolutes and cannot be altered.

    Scotland can, if it pleases, dispense with every archaic word written in the Declaration, but we are safe forever provided we embrace the one defining principle which outranks every other. That is the principle of the people making the decisions, because that is the essence of popular sovereignty. In Scotland, it is the constitutional power and privilege of a Monarch held jointly by everyone from the day they are born until the day they die.

    The 1707 Union did not, could not, wrestle sovereignty from the people of Scotland because Scotland’s Constitution made that impossible. The “Sovereignty” assertEd by the UK Government since 1707 is not true sovereignty, and can never be true sovereignty. It is a usurpation of sovereignty by a deliberately ambiguous and unwritten “Convention” whereby the separate sovereignties of Scotland and England come together in the Westminster Parliament in consensus and agreement.

    The vital component of that unwritten convention is consensus. Scotland’s people have to agree with the convention, because they, the people remain sovereign. The Convention is only lent power while there is consent and agreement to lend it.

    That Convention is shaky enough, because it does a thing which you cannot properly do. It’s a bit like asking for permission. You can ask for permission, and risk being refused. Or, you can be sly, and say “I’ll assume I have your permission, and if you do not protest, then it will deemed that your permission was given”. Do you see the difference? You do not ask for permission, simply presume it has been given. THAT is how the UK’s unwritten convention on Parliamentary Sovereignty works.

    BUT! Even if is arguable that such a convention might hold some legitimacy, (even if only because both co-signatories to the bilateral treaty of Union have agreed to live by that Convention for over 300 years), the Brexit Referendum CHANGED EVERYTHING.

    Scotland’s SOVEREIGN PEOPLE by emphatic majority REFUSED their consent for the UK to be removed from Europe, and without that consent, which Westminster routinely takes for granted, the UK’s Convention on Parliamentary Sovereignty lies broken and destroyed. Scotland’s Brexit is unlawful. Scotland’s Brexit is subjugation. Scotland’s Brexit is the will of one Nation being forced upon another. There is no consensus. There is no convention, written or unwritten.

    Do you see why Scotland CANNOT simply acquiesce to Brexit? DO YOU SEE SNP???

    There is no consensus, so there is no convention on UK Sovereignty, there is ONLY colonial subjugation that is contrary to International Law. It is a gross criminal injustice masquerading behind an accepted convention which Westminster Government has breached in their hasty incompetence and arrogant complacency. Punish them for it. Do not turn your head and look away.

    Westminster has broken the rules, undone the convention of UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, and all we await now is for Scotland to punish that unconstitutional incompetence and declare the Union farce to be at an end.

    We have Scottish Independence and European citizenship RIGHT THERE WITHIN OUR GRASP, and may the SNP be damned in perpetuity if they do not deliver make safe our Scottish Independence and Sovereign Constitution.

  44. O.T. The Labour Party elect a Sir to lead them says it all really this so called people’s party has never represented the people it has always stayed within the parameters of the establishment and joining it becoming Sirs Dames etc., where is the intelligence of the working class to vote for a party that always promises jam tommorow ??? The SNP have done more for the working people than labour has ever done or ever would have done I speak as an ex shop steward in the Clyde shipyards who has never or never will vote labour I am not that stupid I mean labour have an Englishman in charge in Scotland you could not make it up ??? And then when someone comes along to take labour back to its roots they get rid of him and put an establishment man in his place so don’t rock the boat

  45. Doug says:

    Our super wonderful definitely non-parasitical Liz Windsor about to make a great speech which will “unite the nation” and heaps of WWII films on TV and an intellectual giant as prime minister bravely showing us all his bulldog spirit and not lying or being incompetent at all… I mean, what more could we possibly want?! Ungrateful Jocks!

  46. Andy smith says:

    Josef O luain
    Watch RT and to a lesser extent Al Jazeera,more power to their elbow,though surprised that Westminster haven’t found a way to take RT down.

  47. Jason Smoothpiece says:


    Wee bit disrespectful and ungrateful if you don’t mind me saying.

    Her Royal Highness is graciously taking time out from her busy schedule to help raise the morale of us poor miserable proles.

    I understand that due to the virus Royal staffing is an issue and, it is rumoured, one has to wipe ones own bottom, didn’t hear you making any sympathetic noise about that.

  48. HYUFD says:

    Sinky Odds on Dame Nicola in a few years? Quite short at the moment I would expect, she is doing sod all about independence, ignoring you cybernats and sensibly focusing on the day job at Holyrood.

    Interestingly Sir Keir polled quite well with Scots in the few polls I have seen on the Labour leadership, certainly better than Miliband and Corbyn anyway. It is certainly possible he could win back a few centre left Scots from the SNP

  49. galamcennalath says:

    As always, a pic can say much more than words.

    The new app for reporting covid19 symptoms has discovered that about 2,000,000 people in the UK are infected. The ‘official’ government count is a tiny fraction of this because of woefully inadequate testing.

    I may be wrong, but it looks like the death rates only reflect those who previously tested positive. They are therefore also suspect numbers.

    A shit show!

    And will there be anyone held to account for poor preparation, poor stockpiling, lunatic herd immunity plans, delays in taking action, cover up, gross undercounting, etc etc?

    Nah. All swept under the carpet and Tory backs protected by their loyal media as usual.

  50. callmedave says:

    Another cartoon illustrating how it is.

    Auntie does a bar graph:
    Coronavirus: How does testing compare a
    cross the UK nations?

    I see from my shopping this morning that my usual deodorant has risen from £2.69 to £4.00. Oh Well!….. Fleetwood Mac 🙁

  51. Golfnut says:

    @ Breeks.

    Excellent summary.

  52. Breastplate says:

    Andy Smith,
    They have tried already and I’m sure they will try again. Nothing the British Establishment hate more than an informed populace.

  53. Mist001 says:

    I posted last night that France expects this to be over soon because they say that the schools, universities and everything are going back on May 4th.

    Since Scotland and the UK is about two weeks behind, I said to expect something similar around about 11th or 18th May.

    So, I read this morning that the UK government are going to relax the lockdown rules during May, so you can expect an announcement that the schools will be going back in early June.

    I suspect there’s a move going on here because there are reports coming from Italy, China and other countries that cases are falling and what I think is that the countries economies are going to fuck so they can’t keep this lockdown going on indefinitely.

    The plan is to give assurances to people that things are calming down so that everybody gets back to work thinking everything is normal.

    Until the second wave hits and the cases shoot through the roof.

  54. Capella says:

    An interview with Chris Hedges from XRTV. CH doesn’t peddle false hope.

  55. Stuart MacKay says:

    Robert Louis @8:02am

    > Nukes but not enough nurses.

    Well, they can’t even get that right either. They’re leased from the USA,

  56. Effijy says:

    I’ll say this again for the intellectually challenged and Dave’s Unionist friends,

    The Scottish SNP Government Supports and funds our NHS Service better than
    Any other area of this Fake Union.

    The scandalous blame for what is happening lies specifically at the feet of Westminster
    And their Right Wing policies of money for the rich above all else.

    Scotland continued with bursaries for trainee Nurses
    We uniquely give free University education to our future Doctors
    We welcome trained medical staff from all around the world.
    They and their families are welcome to live among us permanently.

    Scotland pays our Doctors and Nurses more than England and we have
    Never forced them into striking or imposed draconian contracts on them.

    Scotland spends more per head on health and our Doctors and Nurse each
    Have lower numbers of patients to care for than any other NHS.

    Scotland has had Billions wipes from our budget by Westminster austerity now in its 12 year.
    This and the privatisation of 8% of England’s Tory NHS makes budgeting here increasingly difficult.

    The Tories-carried out operation Cygnus which proved that the NHS could never support an Epidemic or indeed Pandemic when one must arrive with us.

    They chose to continue cutting NHS budgets in real terms offloading 17,000
    Beds in England and therefore reducing funds for Scotland.

    The signs were all there in other countries to show the need for emergency procedures to be initiated. protection kits, beds and ventilators and isolation/lockdown were going to be required
    Urgently but Westminster did not react as it all costs.
    Money was firmly put before Life!

    England’s NHS has seen thousands of needless deaths with many scandals but the stories are soon buried as England’s media runs permanent headlines about bird dropping in one ventilator at one
    Scottish Hospital which was due to an Architect Design error that may, or may not have had any influence on the passing of 2 very sick kids unlikely to survive.

    The Mid-Staffs Debacle cost many lives but the most recent Story was the English Maternity Hospital that finally admitted 7needless deaths over a 3 year period and potential brain damage to
    130 children.

    The shite here is not in a vent in Scotland it heaped in Westminster,NHS England and the Fake UK Media’s journalists and editors.

    The Scottish NHS run by the SNP Scottish Parliament consistently out performs the Tory, Labour and DUP NHS.

    I congratulated them all as with our remote areas to serve our history of poor diet and alcohol abuse
    Scotland has the most difficult of all tasks of all.

    Dave and ignorant Unionists, I will neither read or reply to anything you post.
    You are here to suppress the basic human right of sovereignty, you want this nations
    Finances to be used and squandered by the government of another country and a party we have shunned of 70 years.

    Your unfounded futile comments propose we are better off gambling with ill health and death by just accepting an inferior life style of another nation devoid of respect across Europe.

    Fly your Butchers Apron proudly for the rich, for Zero Hours Contracts, for Food Banks, for privatised Health Care, for restricted movement and trade with Europe and for sustained attacks
    On the disabled.

    Free Scotland from this immoral and corrupt union and let us flourish.

  57. dakk says:

    ‘It is certainly possible he could win back a few centre left Scots from the SNP’.

    But more likely just levitate back from blue tory to red tory.

  58. @HYUFD,

    Beware what you wish for,

    think Sir Keir will be winning back some centre right to the Labour party with the little englanders not happy with Cummings and his little chimp.

  59. Stuart MacKay says:

    The BBC is at it again. With 3605 deaths so far the headline on the UK home page is “Virus suspected as 13 care home residents die”. No need to look at which section it’s filed under – you know the answer to that already.

    Incidentally, from the Johns Hopkins dashboard, there are 38698 reported cases in the UK. 3605 deaths so far makes for a pretty grim mortality rate. Why isn’t the BBC highlighting that?

    It’s a live site so archiving makes no sense.

  60. Rm says:

    @Effijy, great piece.

  61. Thomas says:

    @ Scott Finlayson 2.25pm

    Are you being serious Scott?

    Labour elect another champagne socialist in the blairite pro european mold , ie the labourites in charge before corbyn , and you tell us you think the little Englanders might be tempted back into the fold?

    Dont agree.

    Pro Brexit little England isnt going to vote for starmer with his pro european views are they?

    I can just hear bojo the clown ribbing him in the commons about “defying the will of the people over brexit ” .

    Was it not Einstein who said , or was supposed to have said “doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the sign of madness?”

    With labour , a party bereft of vision , its no surprise they have rebounded back to the likes of Starmer.

    Johnson and Cummings must be laughing all the way .

  62. callmedave says:

    Latest Scottish figures:

    A further 46 people have died with coronavirus in Scotland, taking the total to 218, up from 172, according to the latest figures released by the Scottish government.

    The figures reveal that 3,345 people have tested positive in Scotland, up 344 from Friday, from a total of 20,798 people tested.

    Latest totals of positive cases in all Scotland’s health board areas
    Ayrshire and Arran 254
    Borders 110
    Dumfries and Galloway 127
    Fife 173
    Forth Valley 208
    Grampian 177
    Greater Glasgow and Clyde 851
    Highland 85
    Lanarkshire 427
    Lothian 476
    Orkney 4
    Shetland 40
    Tayside 410
    Eileanan Siar (Western Isles) 3

  63. Famous15 says:

    HYFUD is worried about SIR Kier because as a Tory Councillor from Essex SIR might lose him his seat.


  64. cirsium says:

    bravo Chris

  65. Gary45% says:

    Hi Dave,
    Name and shame the store or then again it could be the manufacturer.

    Mist001, Sensible Dave, Joe, HYFUD, Jackie and co, before you ramp up the usual, Mr & Mrs Murrell, STURGEONITES nonsense, knock your heads together in the barrack, and tell me, who in the Scottish Government would you recommend replacing Sturgeon and her other ministers? Remember it has to be someone else in the current Scottish Parliament.
    Name me a more credible FM /Health Sec, etc out the current opposition in Holyrood.
    Other SNP politicians in WM don’t count.
    Come on give me a laugh.

  66. callmedave says:

    Auntie says:

    More than 600 virus deaths in England in 24 hours
    NHS England has reported a further 637 hospital deaths from coronavirus in hospitals across the country.

    That brings the total number of reported deaths in hospitals in England to 3,939.

  67. Mist001 says:

    @ Gary45%

    There is NOBODY in the SNP to replace Mrs. Murrell, or haven’t you noticed?

    However, I have suggested the formation of a ‘Dream Team’ as an alternative to the SNP, which consists of:

    Alex Salmond, Tommy Sheridan, Joanna Cherry, Craig Murray and The Rev.

    If they buried whatever differences they have with each other and could work together, that’s a pretty effective mix of intellect, knowledge, and skills to get this show back on the road.

    And there’s my answer to you.

    Don’t bother replacing the head of the SNP. The brand is tainted now.

    Start with a brand new party.

  68. auld highlander says:

    Sneaky sneaky second home owners sharing tips on how to sneak into Wales at night.

  69. Sensibledave says:

    Effigy 2.22

    … a wonderful stirring speech chap, but absolutely nothing to do with anything I wrote. But I hope you feel better after venting.

  70. callmedave says:


    Update that number 708 deaths in England right now.
    “Less than the expected” says Dept Health

    Wales 13.

  71. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Rm @10:15

    ‘get rid of religion’

    You are skating on thin ice with that idea my friend … Don’t say you weren’t warned.

  72. Sensibledave says:

    Gary45% 11.45

    Errr, I have not bitched about what the Scottish Government spends its money on. Bill did.

  73. callmedave says:

    BBC gave the 708 figure as UK total. My mistake still England 637.

    Ireland 56

  74. K1 says:

    I can’t recommend TravelligTabby’s website that tracks what is happening with the spread in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK. He’s upgraded his website too, at a glance graphs of all regions in Scotland, curve comparison across the 4 UK nations and whole host of others related statistical information:

    He’s got a wee message box now too, you don’t have to use your email but it would be grand if people could send him a big thank you for the work he is doing to produce this wealth of information at this time.

  75. K1 says:

    ‘enough’ is obvs missing 😉

  76. CameronB Brodie says:

    Tories are simply ideologically opposed to the principle of “universality”, and their capacity for joined-up-thinking tends to be impaired by a neurocognative impoverishment of cognitive and empathic abilities. In other words, they tend to be a bit thick and selfish. Tories also tend to believe there is only one way to skin a cat, and they will defend their lack of ethical principles concerning the morality of ‘market forces’, with utmost priority.

    Will Scotland continue to allow the Tories to define our humanity.

    Principles of justice in health care rationing

  77. ahundredthidiot says:

    The penny still hasn’t dropped has it?

    Just stop and think for one second.

    Do you REALLY think that Governments are shutting down the World economy to prolong the lives of a few thousand old codgers with underlying health conditions and/or out of sympathy for their health systems?

    Really?? – shut it all down…..for that…..the same people who lied to take us to War in Iraq which killed 200,000 people… mean those folks?

    Jesus wept.

  78. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry, bioneurological impoverishment of cognitive….

    The Consilient Brain
    The Bioneurological Basis of Economics, Society, and Politics

  79. Breeks says:

    “ Nicola Sturgeon praises new Declaration of Arbroath film”….

    Does she aye?

    Has it informed her at all then, what it actually means when the sovereign people of Scotland said an emphatic NO to Brexit?

    Or is it just artificial praise that’s fired straight into a waste paper basket beside the sovereign mandates she’s been collecting these past five years?

  80. jackie says:

    I hope you have all done your daily BBC arithmetic test.

    First you get pen and paper, then you write down the new total of deaths for Scotland, Wales and N Ireland.

    Then you add them up and subtract that total from the new total for UK deaths.

    That will then hopefully give you the new total number of deaths in england.

    Got that???

  81. Colin Alexander says:

    The Treaty of Union was incorporated into Scots Law to give it legal effect.

    The introductory text of the Union with England Act 1707 states:

    “…Articles of Union and Act of Parliament Doth Ratifie Approve and Confirm the same with the Additions and Explanations contained in the saids Articles in manner and under the provision aftermentioned whereof the Tenor follows”

    “VI That all parts of the United Kingdom for ever from and after the Union shall have the same Allowances Encouragements and Drawbacks and be under the same Prohibitions Restrictions and Regulations of Trade and lyable to the same Customs and Duties on Import and Export And that the Allowances Encouragements and Drawbacks Prohibitions Restrictions and Regulations of Trade and the Customs and Duties on Import and Export settled in England when the Union commences shall from and after the Union take place throughout the whole United Kingdom . . . F1 ( F1: repealed by Statute Law Revision (Scotland) Act 1964 (c. 80), Sch. 1”

    (The Parliament of Scotland’s) Union with England Act 1707, Found here:
    Union with Scotland Act 1706 Found here:

    However, the English legislation was soon amended in 1707 by UK Parliament to change the terms of Union for Scotland: Union with Scotland (Amendment ) Act 1707 found here:

    “One Privy Council for Great Britain. Whereas by Her Majesties great Wisdom and Goodness the Union of the two Kingdoms hath been happily effected and the whole Island is thereby subject to one Sovereignty…”
    This raises a number of questions, some of which are:

    Can the Union with Scotland (Amendment ) Act 1707 by UK Parliament of the English domestic legislation, declaring one Sovereignty, change the terms of the Treaty of Union for Scotland and take away Scotland’s people’s sovereignty?

    The Treaty does not say there will only be “one Sovereignty”, does it?

    If Scotland – or indeed England – no longer exist, how come we have Scots Law and English Law?

    If England and Scotland no longer exist and UK Parliament is sovereign, then why has UK Parliament gone back to the domestic legislation of Scotland and England (the Acts of Union )and changed that legislation?

    Parts of the Treaty of Union say it CANNOT be altered. But, even in the parts where it says it cannot be altered, the domestic legislation which incorporated the Treaty into domestic law has been altered by UK Parliament. Thus, the terms of the Treaty have been breached.

    So, UK Parliament only has authority over Scotland for as long as we permit it. Arguably, it has no legal basis to declare sovereignty over the people of Scotland. The reality is that are England’s British Empire colonial subjects under a subservient colonial Scottish political class, headed by Maharani Sturgeon and woke SNP Scottish colonial Government.

    The UK constitution of parliamentary sovereignty over Scotland is as legally solid as a house of cards built upon the sand. Mr Salmond was out to knock down the house of cards and free the Scotland colony, so became British Empire public enemy #1.

  82. jackie says:

    Breeks 4.07

    “Or is it just artificial praise that’s fired straight into a waste paper basket beside the sovereign mandates she’s been collecting these past five years?”

    Yes, it’s that one Breeks.

    Sturgeon has become Immune to the Mandate virus.

  83. jackie says:

    A WW2 movie was on the telly there (Convoy 1940) and it said it was about the Atlantic Convoys between America and England.

    So there you are,,,the Convoys sailed right by Ireland Scotland and Wales and headed right for the Thames.

    English film makers re writing history.

    What’s new?

  84. Andy says:

    jackie says:
    4 April, 2020 at 4:19 pm

    A WW2 movie was on the telly there (Convoy 1940) and it said it was about the Atlantic Convoys between America and England.

    I noticed that as I was browsing and avoided watching for that reason.

  85. shug says:

    BBC still not reporting England only figures but here they are

    Deaths %
    N Ireland 56 1.30%
    Scotland 218 5.05%
    Wales 153 3.55%
    England 3886.00 90.10%
    Total 4313

  86. Sensibledave says:


    I don’t know what you are watching but on my tv screen there is a rolling banner giving the information about each home nation.

  87. Sensibledave says:


    Your writing b****cks again!

  88. jackie says:

    On my screen earlier on (BBC) it gave you the total for Scotland Wales and N Ireland,,then the UK.

    You had to find out for yourself what the english total was

  89. Clydebuilt says:

    Gold Dust Test Robots taken from Scottish University by Royal Navy
    On “special request from No. 10 “ the Royal Navy turned up at Dundee University’s school of Life sciences to transport it’s two King Fisher Flex Robots to Milton Keynes to be part of the National Covid -19 Diagnostic Centre. “these machines are like Gold dust”
    Also says in this article that They were donated by the University.

    Were they part of Scotland’s testing programme?.

    Further reporting in the times.

  90. callmedave says:

    Question to Gove there citing the 13 deaths in a Scottish care home and stating they were not tested and therefore will not appear on the official statistics.

    I believe that is not really true in Scotland as the FM stated that the Scot Gov changed it’s recording system to include deaths outside hospitals where corona virus was suspected or mentioned as a possible cause by eg: a doctor.

    But it will take a few more days to appear on the figures.

    The figures Gove gives for their purposes in England is for hospital deaths only. Which is what he said.

    Some journalists have not been keeping up with what goes on in Scotland…as usual. 🙁

  91. CameronB Brodie says:

    The law simply can not serve justice without regard to the scientific understanding we have about the human condition. Law and public policy that is divorced from empirical reality, can not hope to serve justice (see Brexit and and the proposed GRA reforms).

    Full text.

    Deontic Justice and Organizational Neuroscience

  92. jackie says:


    I watched About 15 mins of it and it was the english who won the war,,,,as per usual,,,with their stiff upper lips and Rule Britannia playing in the background.

    I was hoping the Germans would blow the bastards right out of the water.

    Not that I am anti english or anything like that.

  93. Gary45% says:

    My Bad, my poor excuse is you have been so negative ever since your first post on WoS its hard keeping up.
    Embrace the love.

  94. shug says:


    check the bbc yourself

    you need to calculate the number for England

  95. Gary45% says:

    Good dream team, but none of them can be in Government at this particular time.
    So embrace what we have at the moment, cause it shines above the rest of UK politics. IMHO.

  96. Colin Alexander says:

    All The King’s Men (1949), a film remade in 2006.

    A film about a hick political campaigner and solicitor, Willie Stark, who campaigns about a school being jerry-built because of corruption, so killing some of the pupils. (Was it called PFI ?)

    At first he fights a losing battle against a corrupt political ruling class.

    They use him to split the vote against the ruling-class of corrupt politicians.

    But he rises to power and keeps it by using the same corrupt methods, such as political favours, blackmail, and destroying rivals who threaten his grip on power.

    A 2020 remake could be made based around the story of Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP.

  97. Famous15 says:

    Jackie .How could you be anti English when that is what you are. Are you homesick? Just for you.


    Feel better Jackie racist and homophobe particularly when talking to Liz?

  98. Old Pete says:

    Sky getting it wrong again. The MSM no nothing when it comes to Scotlan.

  99. Col.Blimp IV says:


    I have long been of the opinion that a conscious effort has been made by the establishment to promote the homogenization of conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists in the eyes of the public, for the purpose of hiding their secrets in plain sight.

    Why else would Obama’s speechwriters have him ridicule “flat earthers” on more than one occasion, than to denigrate speculation on the veracity of the USA’s claims to have landed men on the moon 50 years ago?

    The fact that countless billions have been spent on space exploration in the intervening years and exponential advances in technology have been made, yet not even an unnamed craft has made a return trip to the moon, now that the means exist for a third party to track such a mission. Is reason enough for me to have doubts … does that make me a tinfoil-hat wearing loony?

    So it is not a giant leap for mankind, to ponder that thinning the population of the planet is a much more practical, achievable and cost-effective method of reducing our “carbon footprint” by the required amount within the allotted timescale, than tinkering with windmills and battery powered motor cars.

  100. Bill McLean says:

    Sensible at 1121 – no need to feel sorry for me. I know who is deflecting and deviating. You totally fail to acknowledge that if Westminster did not waste so much of UK assetts on foreign adventures, so they can maintain some semblance of importance and empire, they would better be able to resource public services I did not “bitch about what the Scottish Government spends its money on” – as you wrote at 0340. You owe me an apology. I don’t mind you disagreeing at all but you may not misquote. I ask you again and HYFUD – why dont you both turn your attentions to the massive problems in the English public services? You are seriously and so obviously on the defensive”

  101. Sensibledave says:


    Nope … rolling banner giving exact numbers for each country.

    Maybe Scottish TVs cut of the bottom of the screen. Maybe it’s a conspiracy? Maybe “they” are hiding the information from you specifically because you want Scottish Independence?

  102. Rm says:

    Listening to Kier Starmers victory speech today, he kept on about our country, our nation, our regions was he referring to just england or did he mean our countries, our nations and our regions which I’m thinking to him that’s all Scotland ls a region, he’s no different from the rest of the english establishment, have any of them ever done a real days graft in their lives, how could he be claiming to be labour, Scottish Labour have to start thinking for Scotland’s future.

  103. Fireproofjim says:

    Col. Blimp IV
    Oh dear. Not the “Apollo was a fake” story again
    I worked for a company called Thermal Science whose HQ is in St Louis USA. Look them up if you care to – they are still there.
    They spent many years developing the heat shields for the re-entry of the space craft and were intimately involved with the programme. Well over a quarter of a million people in thousands of companies worked throughout America on the Apollo project and not one of them believes they were working on a fake programme.
    The Russians who had already landed unmanned craft on the moon tracked the Apollo flights from beginning to end as did the British with the giant radio telescope at Jodrell Bank. The Russians even sent grudging congratulations to the Americans.
    No scientists or engineers doubt the landings for a second . Only tin hat conspiracy theorists.

  104. HYUFD says:

    Dakk Scott Finlayson Unlikely Jackson Carlaw has the 25% of diehard Unionist, Leave voting Scots firmly in the Tory camp.

    Starmer will be targeting the soft Unionist, anti hard Brexit Scottish voters who voted Brown in 2010 and have largely voted SNP with the possible exception of 2017

  105. CameronB Brodie says:

    Scott Fitzpatrick appears to appreciate the significance that empathy has in our lives. I just wish his perspective was more widely held. This will be unlikely in Brexxitania, constituted as it is in isolation from a respect for Natural Law. As such, Brexitania lacks the potential for the universality of justice in Britain. This can be expected to have a harmful psychological impact on those living in Scotland, who can not help but feel diminished in their moral and psychological identities.

    Full text.

    How we empathize with others: A neurobiological perspective

  106. Effijy says:

    Virgin media has broken down in my area.

    None of their contact telephone numbers is operational
    Their Live Chat is Dead and they must be the worlds only
    Internet providers that you cannot e-mail?

    If some elderly residents here depend on their land line
    To keep in touch with family or call for an ambulance they
    Would need to call out to find a neighbour with a mobile.

    They are supposed to be an essential service because of the life line aspect.

    They try to sell you Call Divert so they can’t divert calls to home workers here and
    In India so that they can inform the on call engineers?

    Shocking level of service !

  107. Sensibledave says:


    I don’t doubt that money has been wasted on some foreign adventures.

    However, it is ridiculous to suggest that is why we do not have enough ventilators and PPE to deal with the largest pandemic the world has seen in modern times.

    But it suits your narrative to suggest the two are directly connected.

    How much did the Common Wealth Games cost? How many ventilators would that have bought? Choices Bill, choices!

    No doubt my words will have no effect upon you and you will still believe, somehow, that Me, tories, Westminster, English .., are to blame for those that have sadly died due Covid 19 – and if only Scotland was independent then then people would have been saved. Do you watch the news Bill or do you only spend time on this echo chamber! Did you know that it’s happening around the world?

  108. Republicofscotland says:

    Glasgow airport is to transform transform one of its carparks into a Covid-19 testing centre.

    As for Keir Starmer, he’ll be no different to any other Westminster party leader, an enemy of Scottish independence.

  109. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wish I was a better proof reader, but only habits die hard (see British nationalism).

    Full text.

    Empathy, justice, and moral behavior

  110. CameronB Brodie says:

    old habits…ffs

  111. Bill McLean says:

    Sensible – you are clearly struggling with that nonsense!You admit that “money has been wasted on foreign adventures”. Is that as far as any insight you may have takes you? What could have been done with that wasted money that had no beneficial effect on this state we are unfortunate to have to live in? You have not noticed the running down of your own NHS? I note that you have not apologized for misquoting me!
    Did they teach you comprehension at school? Keep divertingj away and maybe you will turn a corner that will educate you! Attempts at insult are a matter of supreme indifference to me Sensible. Your behaviour and total lack of understanding puts your comments in the “totally irrelevant file”

  112. Tatu3 says:

    Sky News had an interview with a South Korean guy on this morning. (I wasn’t really paying attention at the start so didn’t see who he was exactly) but he said Scottish NHS had ordered testing kits from them. But that the other 3 nations hadn’t.

  113. Republicofscotland says:

    There needs to be a total clean out of the SNP, if we’re to rely on them achieving independence for us. Or a new indy party at Holyrood, or we all flock to the Greens on the solemn promise that independence becomes their main goal.

    For now at least the SNP cannot be trusted on independence.

    “This man (Ben Munnoch)is paid SNP staff. Just read the last 6 weeks of his twitter stream.
    * Not one mention of Independence
    * 6 approving retweets of the Israeli Defence Force
    * 2 approving retweets of Higgins/Bellingcat
    * Approving retweet of unionist MSM attacking Salmond.”

  114. Sensibledave says:


    Unlike you, I live in the real world … not done fluffy nirvana of my own confection.

    ALL governments make mistakes, make bad decisions, and cock things up.

    But you, you can’t concede that. You want to draw childish conclusions born out of ridiculous propositions. Put simply, if the Scottish Government had had the foresite and wisdom, it could for instance have said, we are not going to spend £380m on the common wealth games, we are going to get rid of food banks, buy a huge stock of ventilators and asteroid umbrellas (there’s a potential problem not being addressed!).

    If you can’t understand the point I am making then there is nothing more I can do for you.

  115. Bill McLean says:

    The only thing you can do for me is stop being so arrogant and ignorant. Any apology for misquoting me you coward? This is like wading through treacle and I cant believe you are so thick!

  116. mike cassidy says:

    The Tories have no choice but take the blame for the poverty of our unpreparedness.

    Exercise Cygnus in 2016 exposed the problems that existed.

    Some problems were publicly highlighted at the time.

    The response was PR bullshit.

    “The World Health Organisation recognises that the UK is one of the most prepared countries in the world for pandemic flu. We regularly test ourselves to make sure this remains the case. Any issues are thoroughly explored with the relevant agencies so that lessons are learnt.

    What else could be expected from a Government and party systematically undermining the one NHS they directly controlled

    And systematically underfunding the devolved ones.

    I wonder why the evaluation of Cygnus has never been made public? Let me think about that – for a second.

  117. Muscleguy says:

    PCR machines are the easy bit. The harder bit which is much less common is the adequate, rated, tested fume hoods for handling the possibly infective samples. At least Cat3 in my estimation, possibly Cat4.

    It’s possible there are Cat3 facilities without sufficient PCR machines, which are not that big, you could fit one in an average backpack. Portable battery powered ones for beyond grid are now a thing as well.

    So moving PCR machines (where they may be sitting unused) to where they are needed to bring testing facilities on stream is only sensible. I would have preferred they not move from Dundee to England but perhaps we have an excesss.

    In research places there are at least annual equipment donation weeks. You take your excess/old stuff down to see if anyone else wants it. PCR machines started appearing at these over 20 years ago. The sort which won’t take modern 360 well microplates for eg, just 96 wells.

    Having a benchtop robot to grid them all out is useful as well. It leads to better repeatability and therefore reliability from doing it by hand. Especailly once you get above 96 wells. Don’t forget to include both positive and negative controls. And cross your fingers that you don’t get contamination (which would show in your negative control). That is common. For transgenic mouse genotyping in the lab in London we had to limit the number of cycles and have 2 (or was it 3?) sorts of negative controls the contamnation was so bad.

    A colleague here in Dundee moved benches progressively down the lab space to avoid contamination. She was trying to PCR up the same gene from a number of different animals across the kingdoms and kept getting just chicken or the last one she had done. Using all the precautions.

    The rigmarole the guy who did the first Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA sequencing had to go through is legendary. They are so, so close to us that contamination with human was a fearsome possibility.

    BTW our fingertips constantly secrete rnase enzymes to chew up environmental rna from rna viruses, like coronavirus. This is a big problem when we try to exract rna. Hence gloves. It also shows how prevalent rna viruses are in the environment. Our cells have a molecular anti rna inherent system as well which almost as old as the first eukaryotic cells (not bacteria, cells with a central nucleus and mitochondria).

  118. Dan says:

    England could also have invested in some energy generation equipment instead of all those expensive war toys. That way they could keep those non existent ventilators powered. It doesn’t look like they’re in “total control” with 13% coming in from those “pesky Euro foreigners”.

    Plus around 6% being supplied by those “uppity Jocks”.

    Mind you, as England needs to import approx. half its food to feed its inhabitants, I suppose requiring almost 20% of it’s power from outsiders is less of a concern in the scheme of things…

  119. Craig Murray says:

    May I make a plea to everybody to actually look at the twitter stream of Ben Munnoch which Republic of Scotland posted at 5.56pm.

    Paid SNP staff. It perfectly explains in one example of everything I have been saying about the horrible takeover of the SNP by political careerists.

    You have to skip by a lot of coronavirus stuff, but make the effort. After loads of terrible stuff well worth reading, when I finally reached the SNP paid staffer for foreign affairs retweeting WITH APPROVAL Dominic Raab endorsing Trump’s “Middle East Peace Plan”, I lost the will to live.

    Please, please do look. Ten minutes will make you understand what Stu and I have been saying for over a year about what has happened to the SNP.

  120. Republicofscotland says:

    Looks like the Kennedy curse is set to continue.

  121. Sensibledave says:


    Show me where I misquoted you.

  122. Dan says:

    Sensibledave says: at 6:01 pm

    ALL governments make mistakes, make bad decisions, and cock things up.

    It’s excellent to have you acknowledge this fact which highlights the principle of why so many Scots are pushing for our country to return to us being an independent nation State.
    Aye indeed, all governments do indeed fuck things up occasionally, hence why it is better to have one government that we directly elect and control, rather than the current clustefuck which is the UK, with the inherent democratic deficit Scotland suffers from with being part of it.
    This status Scotland currently has means we can’t get rid of the one government which holds the major influencing powers and uses them for things we would rather not.

  123. robertknight says:

    Jackie @4:38

    “Not that I am anti english or anything like that.”

    Oh, you do surprise us. Not a racist, knuckle-dragging mouth-breather after all then. Just a normal, everyday common or garden ignoramus. Glad that’s cleared up. So nice having you on the same ‘side’ as us non-racist Indy supporters. You bring so much to the table we couldn’t possibly cope without you in persuading other non-racists to come over to Yes. You know the sort I’m sure; the normal people who are able to be pro-Indy without the need to be anti-anyone. Or maybe you don’t…

  124. Sensibledave says:


    At last, we agree on something!!!

    Not so sure about the democratic deficit thing though. You have one vote for Westminster parliament, as do I. You have Holyrood which passes laws relevant to Scotland without English elected reps having a say. EVEL laws only get passed when all English, Scots, welsh and Northern Ireland MPs have voted on them. But let’s not be churlish and agree for once.

  125. Effijy says:

    An all in it together note to All

    The best ever Commonwealth Games were held in Glasgow.
    The people of Glasgow and Scotland made it the best games ever.

    Glasgow was Refused any form of funding by Westminster so they
    Did it all by themselves with zero help from the South.

    Westminster announces Birmingham’s Commonwealth Games will
    Receive a grant no less than £72 Million.

    How many ventilators do you get for that in an all equal society.

    Abusive, corrupt and immoral are the politicians of Westminster.

  126. Benhope says:

    When the blog is becoming overwhelmed by the trolls and Cameron Brodie guff, (please take another long break),can I suggest that the readers go back on to the last thread and read SilverDarling 3 April 11.57 and Effijy 4 April 12.14.

    Great posts. Humour and incisive comments. This was what made Wings a must read for the past 7 years.Lang may yer lums reek!

    Our media ignores the Declaration of Arbroath, but let`s raise a glass for those in the past who fought to maintain our Independence, and Hamish McPherson for his brilliant articles in the National on Scottish history. I wish I had been taught a fraction of that in school instead of the Tudors and English history. Don`t get me started on the boring Shakespeare instead of Neil Gunn, Lewis Grassic Gibbon and Stevenson.What a huge amount of wasted hours of english/scottish education.

    Michael Stewart on Off the Bawl, best football pundit in uk by a long shot. Listen in.

  127. Mist001 says:

    I really don’t understand this ‘Declaration Of Arbroath’ stuff.

    To me, it’s someone doing just that, making a declaration. How much weight does it carry?

    It’s like Idi Amin declaring that he was ‘The Last King Of Scotland’.

    That was a declaration too.

  128. Lothianlad says:

    @ Craig Murray,

    Well said Craig. I should also mention the grip these people have on Midlothian. NO mentions of independence on the Mps page and local councillors well in the anti Alex camp.
    They have a grip on the branches and new talent cant flourish.
    We need to get the membership to wake up and remove the careerists .

  129. Bill McLean says:

    Sensible you misquoted me at 0340. Don’t bother apologizing now as I couldn’t care less. I don’t have the will to bother with your lack of comprehension any longer, and I do have a more interesting evening ahead of me than exchanging views with you. So despite you arrogance, obtuseness, deviousness and cowardice i’ll wish you and those dear to you good health throug this current foreseen, foreseeable and unprepared for epidemic.

  130. Dan says:

    For Real!
    Dave, is the “Sensible” in the name you use on here an auto correct glitch?
    I was thinking the other day it was meant to be “Senile” due to you continually forgetting and or ignoring and failing to answer points and questions put to you.
    However I now wonder if you meant to type in Sensidave because you might be huffin’ on da sensi cannabis, and that could explain your inability to reciprocate in “sensible” conversation, you know the type, that two way kinda dialogue thang where folk take the time to discuss and answer the points and questions both parties make rather than one party just hammering on with their own narrative.

    Anyway, this may help explain the democratic deficit. I asked Indyposterboy to make this image a while back using the colours associated with each country in their sporting endevours.
    Obviously England normally use white but as that wouldn’t show well on a white page I suggested the use of a pish stained yellow hue as a way I could express my scunneredness towards Scotland so regularly being outvoted by our 10 times larger “equal” partner in this union.

    I’m planting seeds at the moment so in case you have the munchies tell me what veg you want and I’ll plant and grow some for you.

  131. CameronB Brodie says:

    Without a regard to natural law and the human condition, law simply supports political authoritarianism. Tories are antagonistic towards universality, so can not be considered supportive of the human condition. And neither can the current SNP. 🙁

    Dissecting the Neural Mechanisms Mediating Empathy

  132. Colin Alexander says:

    Craig Murray

    “Paid SNP staff. It perfectly explains in one example of everything I have been saying about the horrible takeover of the SNP by political careerists”.

    As you presumably knew all this prior to the 2019 GE, and SNP careerist British colonial administrators is something I have long complained about, why did you persuade me – and others- into supporting the SNP at the GE? (Which Sturgeon now uses as “proof” of her successful leadership).

  133. ahundredthidiot says:

    fireproofjim @ 5:27

    Do you not believe in freedom of speech or freedom of choice?

    Think about that the next time you auto angry when someone disagrees with your opinion on all things Apollo.

    Look how far mobile phones have come, aircraft, cars, etc etc.

    the one exception, despite billions of dollars, is manned space exploration – doesn’t that give you the slightest pause for thought?

    You seem to have an IQ over 85, so why not do your own research….and if the answer is ‘no thanks’ then I guess you are just another one of those folks who are not aware that 3 world trade centres fell, like a rock, on 9/11 – in which case, like many others (majority, in fact) there is literally no helping.

  134. Stakhanovite says:

    @Craig Murray thanks for all you’ve done recently. I vowed never to join a Political party, preferring to support Scottish independence in my own way, but I’m now going to pay up and join the SNP, do all I can to have the likes of Ben Munnoch excised, it’s fucking outrageous that the party is tolerating this attitude. We’e going to have to sort it out from within

  135. ahundredthidiot says:

    and before you auto rant on 9/11 ‘fireproofjim’

    why not look up architects and engineers 9/11

    fire proof………more like common sense proof.

  136. ahundredthidiot says:


    that has to be the most pathetic and feeble attempt yet.

    Troopy wants a coffee…..chop chop

  137. robertknight says:

    Colin Alexander @ 7:14

    Take comfort Colin from the fact that the mist has fallen from the eyes of many where the SNP under NS is concerned.

    Mind you… that’s about the only ‘comfort’ that can be had from the whole sorry mess.

  138. CameronB Brodie says:

    You object to someone seeking to expand the legal and political consciousness of the WOS readers? Really?

  139. CameronB Brodie says:


    Putting together phylogenetic and ontogenetic perspectives on empathy.

  140. Capella says:

    @ Craig Murray – I had a look at Ben Munnoch’s twitter timeline and I thought it not particularly remarkable. He looks quite young. He seems typical of a young person, half educated, with no real experience of the wicked ways of the world. Gullible perhaps. Or wilfully ignorant. And certainly very rude about you.

    Nicola Sturgeon herself recommended we read Henry Kissinger on AI. It may have been a book or an article in The Atlantic. Nobody of my vintage would dream of reading anything by that notorious war criminal. I put it down to a younger generation. They have no experience of living through the Vietnam War era, the Civil Rights movement, the Women’s Liberation struggle, the miner’s strike, Thatcherism. They appear to know nothing about the gruesome history of British and American imperialism.

    This corona virus disaster will probably be the first time that they are confronting a life and death issue of major importance. Nothing will remain the same after this is over, or even if it is ever over.

    But if we do get control of the spread of this virus, it will be imperative to make sure that we are never again at the mercy of a bunch of hoodlums in Westminster and Washington. Either Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP make sure that never happens, or the rest of us will.

    I noticed Ben Munnoch linked to a FT tweet saying something similar.

  141. CameronB Brodie says:

    We are the WOS.

    Empathy as a driver of prosocial behaviour:
    highly conserved neurobehavioural mechanisms across species.

  142. Willie says:

    Stakhanovite@ 7.24.

    Absolutely agree that we are going to sort the SNP from within.

    SNP members are a determined bunch but they will excise the ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s who have come to inhabit the well paid coterie that currently run the party.

    The Salmond stitch up exposes just how rotten and corrupted Sturgeon and her team have become.

    Maybe MI6 have something over her, something she would not appreciate in public. That is how the security services operate.

    They would have been aware of Clown Mackay’s inapropriate texts, as they are of everyone they watch, and from there it’s a small step to embarrassing news being released to the press – just before budget day.

    Post First Minister Sturgeon could have a fabulous career in Europe. She has by and large been a good First Minister. So, if she has been nobbled, why would she not accommodate those who could destroy her, as she would have destroyed Salmond.

    Folks should read the history of Ireland to understand how the British State rots nationalist independence movements from within.

  143. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Fireproofjim @5.27

    There is a difference between believing something to be true and knowing that it is true.
    People with faith that they are being told the truth by people who are wiser/better informed than them, seldom make that distinction.
    And if they have been deceived it is much harder to get them to acknowledge it, than it was to fool them in the first instance.

    “The Russians who … tracked the Apollo flights from beginning to end as did the British with the giant radio telescope at Jodrell Bank.”

    Do you KNOW if it is even possible that the radio-telescopes in question COULD receive a signal from such a craft, or bounced off the craft for the entire duration of the mission?

    Do you KNOW that it was impossible to input data into the system that would trick the observers into BELIEVING that the blip they were tracking was making a round trip to the moon?

    Your closing sentence is too broad and sweeping a statement to hold much water – or moon dust for that matter.

    The Apollo moon missions were if nothing else, a huge propaganda victory for the west, they do not seem to have served any other purpose, if that was the motivation for their existence there would be no reason for them to be REAL, only for them to be BELIEVED.

    What will come first – A return trip to the moon by a man – Or a return trip to earth by the son of God?

    Don’t ask me – ask a BELIEVER.

  144. Muscleguy says:

    Watch the video posted upthread, it tells you the context and impact. During the wars of independence Edward I asserted he held the suzerainty over Scotland and Scottish monarchs should kneel before him and swear fealty. Some were indeed force to do that. The Bruce refused and he famously knifed the Red Comyn who Edward backed, and in a church. This sacrilege led the Bruce to be excommunicated by the Pope who backed Edward. The Bruce was Excommunicated not once but thrice and the Pope was poised to remove all things like marriages and funerals from Scotland as these were not resolved.

    The Declaration of Arbroath was the third diplomatic missive sent to the Pope to try and solve all this. After the Delcaration was sent he sent Edward II a letter which included phrases lifted wholesale from the Declaration and asserted Edward should recognise Scottish soveriegnty as he, the Pope, now did.

    It was a major reallignment. The first two missives are lost, only the Declaration remains. But that the Pope not only changed his mind in our favour the arguments in it resonated so strongly he quoted bits, unconsciously or because he could not find better ways of saying those things.

    In Science writing direct quotes are kind of frowned upon. You are supposed to describe others’ work in your own words thus demonstrating your understanding of them. My PhD thesis contains just one, because I could not express that except by using their own, extremely apt, phrase. It was suitably referenced of course. None of my examiners or my supervisor objected.

  145. jackie says:

    Famous15, the auld dried up LibDem.

    Did you read Craig Murray at 6.16pm???

    Craig, like me has critical words to say about the present top teir of the SNP.

    But unlike me, I don’t see you saying a word to him.

    If you are a self appointed gate keeper of Wings then you can’t show favouritism to certain posters.

    Or are who too afraid to say anything disrespectful of Craig?

  146. Sensibledave says:

    Hi Dan

    I bet, in your head, you thought you had written a brilliant put down didn’t you?

    All that time writing, editing, re-editing…. for what? The least funny or original attempt at an insult!

    Just to correct you on one of your main points, Westminster has 650 odd MPS representing constituencies from throughout the UK. Each MP has equal power. English MPs don’t vote en bloc ( if you were awake, you may recall English tories having a bit of trouble getting Brexit done).

    As an Englishman, my Government has never given me the chance to vote on whether England should remain part of the Union. Scottish folk were given the opportunity to express their views. They expressed them. The only democratic deficit I see is you constantly whittering on about the English oppressing you when a majority of Scots voted to be governed by Westminster – just like I am. You make these ridiculous assertions based only upon your personal perspective without any regard for the democratic process.

    Please tell me what it is that you expect Westminster to do given that the majority of Scots voted to remain in the union?

  147. mike cassidy says:

    Men went to the moon!

    Next thing you’ll be telling me there was a world war between 1939 and 1945.

    Just because there’s film of it and memories of it and pictures of it and people still alive who claim to have taken part in it….

    Away and boil your heid with such pathetic proofs.

  148. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dave is simply trying to appropriate the quality of judgemental reason. That’s what right-wing populists do (see Brexit). He’s simply an English Tory traditionalist, though he appears to be one of the brighter one. 😉

  149. dakk says:

    One of Sky News’s spooks(Stuart Ramsay)made a sombre report called’Inside the Red Zone’,from Bergamo when it was the European epicenter of Covid

    The report is in contrast to the lame,fudging and vague reports we get from England,now that it is one of the Covid red zones of the world.

    The absence of a coherent delay policy and the criminal,deadly failure of duty of care to NHS workers with by far the worst ppe I have seen in any country is an outrage.

    Much more worthy of a sombre,inside report even than Bergamo.

    Nothing though.

    Not so much ‘Red Zone’, as Twilight Zone is what we get from the british propagandists.

  150. Mist001 says:

    @ Muscleguy

    What’s the Pope got to do with it?

    From what you wrote above, it doesn’t seem to be enshrined in law and is simply a declaration which anybody can make, and which was endorsed by a foreign figurehead.

    Which makes it meaningless, really.

    Same as the declaration by Idi Amin. I’ll bet his people would have endorsed that too.

  151. Graeme says:

    The majority of Scots didn’t vote to be governed by Westminster we voted for independence it was English settlers who turned the vote, Why would England vote to leave something you have complete control over, England is the Uk you fucking idiot, this is not a union, it never was a union, Scotland like Wales is a colony and the reason you comment on this site is to rub it in because you think you’re a smartarse but you’re really just a prick.

  152. CameronB Brodie says:

    Want to understand yourself better? Fill your boots. 😉

    Full text.

    Ideological Reactivity: Political Conservatism and Brain Responsivity
    to Emotional and Neutral Stimuli

  153. ahundredthidiot says:

    Mike Cassidy

    there is plenty of proof of WW2

    I do hate to bang on, given the circumstances, but there is no proof for the moon landing….none.

    NASA, by their own admission, destroyed the technology, erased the telemetry and lost the tapes.

    Show me proof?…..I would suggest you have a few dodgy video tapes and hearsay from paid astronauts.

    It’s not what you ‘know’ it’s what you can PROVE……show me proof?….the FACT is there is no proof, none, nada, ziltch, zero.

  154. ahundredthidiot says:


    Can we please stop using the word ‘lockdown’ in conversation and start using ‘house arrest’?

    Please……people need to cotton on to what’s happening.

  155. Col.Blimp IV says:

    mike cassidy@8.26

    Careful Mike the Wokies might interpret that that as a particularly pernicious piece of anti-semetic holocaust-denying.

    Punishable by who knows what?

    They are no better than you at irony/satire/sarcasm/humour.

  156. Mist001 says:

    When I first came to France, one of the first things I noticed was that virtually every ground floor apartment and house has bars on all the windows and the first thing I thought was that this must be a crime ridden shithole.

    Then I realised that bars only have two purposes, to keep people out, or to keep people in.

    Put one soldier or policeman on the front door of any tenement and that’s the residents under house arrest. The buildings don’t have back doors or greens, so there’s no way out.

    And I still can’t believe that French people haven’t cottoned onto this.

    Do a streetview on Google Maps of any French city.

  157. Col.Blimp IV says:


    These Americanisms are doing my head in as well.

    Workers who have been laid-off are being “furloughed” FFS?

    It can’t be long before they start calling the folk that they don’t have a ventilator for “Collateral Damage”.

  158. CameronB Brodie says:

    Anyone seen the latest from POTUS?

  159. CameronB Brodie says:

    Damn it, wrong link.

  160. Col.Blimp IV says:

    “POTUS” “cotton on” ….AAAARRRRRGHHH!

    I hope they make “Double Brooons” the official language come the revolution.

  161. Armitage Shanks says:

    Aegrescit medendo

  162. Patrick Roden says:


    In today’s world, the declaration would just be a declaration without any legal clout, but when it was written, having the approval and support of the Pope, amounted to the declaration being enshrined in law.

    Without Papal approval, you simply couldn’t declare a country independent or declare anyone king.

    You would be correct in saying that the document has no real
    legal basis that could be argued in court today, but in the centuries that followed the declaration and during the wrangling over the terms of the union, it had a lot of bearing on what could and could not become legal.

    It does matter and it is an important document.

  163. Dan says:

    @ Sensibledave at 8:23 pm

    Pretty much all of those 650 MPs were not elected as truly independent candidates, they were also members of specific political parties, and you know…Party Whips…

    You’ve been told umpteen times that democracy does not stand still, yet you continue to spout yer one dimensional shite as if the 2014 Indyref is the only significant event, whilst completely ignoring multiple elections, mandates, and the EU ref. results over the past 5 years.
    We’ve also had those unscheduled General Elections recently which goes against the Fixed Term Parliament Act, but there’s no sign of you pushing the point that these elections should never have occurred.

  164. Mist001 says:

    It doesn’t matter unless it’s tested in court of law. It’s simply a document of it’s time.

    It’s the same when I hear about the ‘sovereignty’ of the Scottish people.

    The SNP couldn’t get off the starting blocks quick enough to mount a legal challenge when Johnson prorogued Parliament, but they’re not so keen to argue these points about the Declaration Of Arbroath and Scottish Sovereignty in a law court.

    Considering that these are legal people, lawyers and such like, don’t you think that the reason they haven’t done so is because they already know that they wouldn’t have a leg to stand on in court?

    So, the declaration of Arbroath and Scottish sovereignty are only fantasies that exist in the minds of a certain section of independence supporters, and have no bearing in the real world.

  165. Golfnut says:


    The basic premise of Sovereignty residing other than with the monarch was accepted by the international court of that time. A revolutionary concept that the monarchs primary function was to protect the independence of the nation state. Failure to do so was just cause to remove that monarch and replace them. In other words the Scots were refuting the divine right of Kings by birth alone. The people were the arbiters of who wore the crown, as they are today. The Papal court accepted that Scots and the Kingdom of Scotland were a sovereign state that no power outside its borders had legal right to usurp. The Magna Carta was refused that endorsement.

  166. Simon Curran says:

    Normal load of guff on the website, Can’t be bothered to read through it all. Should have been on the overnight because s back from Arbroath vid Edinburgh but life has intervened. What I would say is terrific cartoon Chris. I’ve just donated some money to buy health care professionals some masks, shame on the UK Government that this has to happen. Does anyone seriously reckon an independent Scotland couldn’t handle this better.

  167. Mist001 says:


    As you say, “was accepted by the international court of that time” and that’s what I said, the document and that belief were of their time.

    That time is different from now, though.

  168. Famous15 says:

    On the day of the first referendum in 2014 I got several phone calls from call centres in England. THe message was I would lose my pension if I voted YES.

    How did they know I was an OAP?

    I thought I would engage more in conversation with one and it turned out it this one was London Libdems.She was pleasant enough but when I put a little pressure on and threatened Data Protection action I got the full story. Edinburgh West Libdems (Yes Alex Cole_Hamiltons’ gang) supplied the info from canvass returns.

    The pressure on the elderly on that day was intense. Was that truly democracy?

    BTW sensible dave is expert at diversion. I do not engage with the complexities of economics when I can point to several countries of the size of Scotland which are very successful thank you very much ,and most do not have our abundant natural resources nor our skilled population.

    Go figure!

  169. pete says:

    its the usual bumble through but we won so what if extra lives are lost the states ok. I say fu## Westminster let the scientists run the show its not propaganda its results that matter.

  170. mike cassidy says:

    What’s your proof ww2 happened?

    Some dodgy videos called “A World At War”

    And the testimony of paid military personnel.

  171. Golfnut says:

    @ Mist100.

    The significance of Lord Coopers opinion, 1953
    McCormack v Lord Advocate is oft under played for good reason by the establishment. Basically he stated that Scots Constitunional law doesn’t recognise Parliamentary Sovereignty, the very essence of the Declaration of Arbroath. Sovereignty lies with the People still, under Scots law, which the English parliament signed up to with the Treaty of Union. Magna Carta is the basis of English constitutional law, would you claim that was no longer relevant or extant.

  172. Sensibledave says:


    I am not sure why you think that I am responsible for what ails you. Unless it is simply because I am English. What amazes me is your complete inability to even recognise the validity of an alternative argument. My position is very simple. I am a democrat. If the majority of Scots want independence then they should have it. Your position, and that of many commenters here, is that it doesn’t matter what the majority want, they want independence and will do anything to get it.

    There are those that call for civil unrest, those with barely masked contempt for Protestants, those that only want “true born” Scots to have the vote. Some pretty nasty people and very nasty ideologies. I would venture to suggest that floating voters see that and think they wouldn’t want people with those sentiments being in power. When I see here how supporters of a particular football club area classified and abused because of that association it strikes me as the very opposite of a civilised, democratic society. I am sure those views are not representative of the majority – but those spouting those views are rarely admonished by others. All very odd

  173. Shug says:

    Sensible dave
    I have been checking the local and national report daily you are wrong
    Clearly 77 HQ provide you with a different site

  174. ahundredthidiot says:


    I thought the bars were for cooling purposes, but then, my only experience would be Spain, so I am happy to be corrected.

  175. Shug says:

    Clearly watchng how the msm report decisions in the Scottish courts aren’t worth the paper they are written on

    They show nothing but contempt for the judge, the jury and the decision

    A complete disgrace

  176. ahundredthidiot says:


    Watched the video earlier (before Fam were up and about), brought a to my eye watching the credits.

    Not normally a flag waver, but I have two in reserve, a Yes, and an EU, they will BOTH be hanging out the window on the 6th.

    Past caring what the neighbours think….they’re the sleeping dead anyway!

  177. Fireproofjim says:

    Sensibledave & Col.Blimp IV
    It’s a waste of time trying to get it into the heads of ardent conspiracy theorists that they may be wrong, but I’ll try again.
    The moon landings actually happened.
    As I said before, I worked with people who had actually been involved for many years at Thermal Science ,in St Louis, on the Apollo project. Men and women who were honest scientists who had dedicated their time to finding solutions to bringing spacecraft safely back to earth during re-entry. They were not the gullible fools which you two portray, nor were the quarter of a million engineers and scientists who brought the Apollo Project to its successful conclusion.
    Sensibledave says “do your research” when all he has done is consult the mad theories which infest the Internet. I have worked for years with the people who actually did it. I know who I trust and it is not his dubious sources.
    Col Blimp IV seems to have set himself up as an expert on interplanetary communications by saying that the Russians could not track a large spacecraft en route to the Moon when they regularly track and communicate with their own much smaller spacecraft as far away as Venus, while NASA are still in communication with Voyager which is billions of miles beyond the outermost planets and has been travelling for more than 25 years.
    Do a little research yourself. Talk to proper scientists. Don’t just regurgitate the latest internet crap.

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Here’s one for those who continue to see no wrong in the current SNP hierarchy. Your narrow and parochial approach to democracy poses as much a threat to Scotland as the Tories. If you are happy to reject a legal respect for biology and constrain yourself within the confines of British legal doctrine, then you simply do not have what it takes to liberate Scotland.

    Full text.

    Why do all our feelings about politics matter?

  179. Mist001 says:

    @ Golfnut

    I have no interest or knowledge of the Magna Carta. That’s of no concern to me. What is of concern to me is matters which affect Scotland.

    If the Magna Carta was being discussed on this blog, then I’d ask questions about it, same as I’ve done about the declaration and Scots sovereignty.

    Please understand that I’m not being critical of the points being made about the declaration or sovereignty, I’m trying to find out fact from fiction or wishful thinking.

  180. Golfnut says:

    @ Dave the Hypocrite.
    With England awash with xenophobic exceptionalism, Brexit isolationism, a Pm who classify Scots as vermin, windrush, 14 million driven to poverty, rising racial crime, you got one hell of brass neck talking about this site.

  181. terence callachan says:

    Sensibledave… be sensible or be Dave , don’t be a dick

    The Scottish government , Holyrood is allocated a budget along with lwegislation instructing how much of it MUST be spent.
    There is little manoeuvrability They do not have the luxury of being able to print money and introduce money at the the drop of a hat the way that Westminster does

    You must know this
    If you don’t
    Change your name

  182. terence callachan says:

    Sensibledave..if you are English fuck off somewhere else with your drivel we don’t need your anti Scottish nonsense here

  183. ben madigan says:

    @ everyone who mentioned the Coronavirus epidemic, and @dakk who talked about the “Red Zone’around Bergamo

    Here’s an analysis of some conditions that could potentially need to be met before starting to lift the lockdown, as done in terms of today’s stats and situation in Italy.

    Please bear them in mind as you listen to Westminster’s proposals for different plans in the coming days and weeks. Stay safe indoors,take care of yourselves and lift your own personal lockdown only when you are convinced it’s safe to do so.

  184. Pete Barton says:

    Take a bow, members of the 77th.

    Disruption of thread complete.

    Now off down the Naafi for a well deserved cuppa.

    Interference in the affairs of a foreign state is illegal,amoral and repulsive to advocates of modern democracies.

    But we are not a ‘foreign’ state, so the behaviour of the British state in trying to preserve itself within the Union is perfectly understandable.

    If you,(as paid contributors to this btl comments section)who really believe in democracy and want to preserve it then empathise with us.

    Just because we do not wield weapons doesn’t mean we are not powerful;quite the reverse.

    Thank you to the team who put the Arbroath piece together.

    I loved it, a really well put together story with little warning.

    Thank you.

  185. CameronB Brodie says:

    terence callachan
    And you claim you’re not a racist?

  186. CameronB Brodie says:

    terence callachan
    You might want to check this out.

    Implicit stereotypes and the predictive brain:
    cognition and culture in “biased” person perception

  187. ahundredthidiot says:

    fireproof Jim

    did you not read the rules about paragraphs?

    I take it back, perhaps your IQ is not over 85.

    Plenty like ye, in oor Scotland, ye might as well be a fuckin unionist, if ye canny think oot side the box

  188. CameronB Brodie says:

    And here’s another. Perspective shapes judgement. Biased perceptive leads to poor judgement and trouble.

    Full text.

    Functional and clinical neuroanatomy of morality

  189. Dan says:

    @Sensibledave at 10:57 pm

    What amazes me is what the fuck has any of your post got to do with my previous response to you.
    You just slip and slide all over the place making any train of discussion pretty much impossible, and you are now suggesting that I may be anti-English, which I am most definitely not as one side of my family is English.

    For all the time you spend on here you haven’t really bothered to take onboard what folk write, and learn who they are as individuals, you fall back on the crude simplistic pigeonholing of folk into your imaginary groupings with their implied negative connotations.

    I’ve been very open and stated I am not a natural nationalist, I’m an anti-corruptionist and the only practical tools I have available to me to tackle the corruption issue is through my activism activities and political means.
    I don’t just want my democracy sitting in Holyrood, I want it right back into the hands of the people in a far more local way than the current system with it being centralised in various different parliaments.

    Aye, you are an articulate individual, but I don’t even have my O Grade English, yet I can interpret how you compose your posts and see how you operate.

    That’s why I am happy to donate to this site as I’m getting a pretty decent education reading the articles and commentary of some very politically switched on people, whilst also getting the opportunity to improve my own skills in sparring with the likes of you.
    Which at the end of the day makes it so much easier for me when having face to face conversations with the majority of far less politically engaged and knowledgeable people I meet.
    So thanks, your continued efforts to train me are appreciated.

  190. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’m not making this stuff up, Britain is not a social democracy. Brexit clearly shows Westminster does not consider those living in Scotland to posses a legally defensible identity, or political rights. Playing politics and pretending that it does (‘working’ within a dysfunctional legal system), simply endorses constitutional majoritarianism and tyrannical rule. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.

    Theories of Judgment
    Psychology, Logic, Phenomenology

  191. Stakhanovite says:

    ahundredthidiot says:
    4 April, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    that has to be the most pathetic and feeble attempt yet.

    Troopy wants a coffee…..chop chop

    What the fuck are you bleating about?

  192. Stakhanovite says:

    Fireproofjim says:
    4 April, 2020 at 11:19 pm
    Sensibledave & Col.Blimp IV
    It’s a waste of time trying to get it into the heads of ardent conspiracy theorists that they may be wrong, but I’ll try again.
    The moon landings actually happened.
    Fucks sake. I have met, photographed and chatted at length with Charlie Duke, Apollo 16 astronaut AND the Apollo 11 Capcom. A charming man, quite sanguine about enering Earth’s atmosphere at 22,000mph, any wankhole (copyright S Campbell) who still denies the Apollo landings needs to check out the ongoing satellite mapping of the moon surface that clearly shows the landing sites and artifacts, even the discarded backpacks still lying there. Or just stop being cocks and fuck right off.

  193. ahundredthidiot says:


    simply put….you’re not one of us, so why not fuck the fuck off you plant arse pish talking unionist arsehole

  194. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brexit indicates British constitutional law is no longer diologic. It no longer provides the potential for a cultural conversation among the nations. Brexitania denies Scotland the the choice of political morals it endorses. Brexitania demands Scottish culture is only expressed in ways that are compatible with English Torydum. That is not how liberal constitutionalism works.

    A Democratic Theory of Judgment

  195. Ayeright says:


    I wouldn’t rush to judgment of whether or not Stakhanovite is a “plant” as it’s more likely to turn out that you’re the arsehole LOL

  196. Stakhanovite says:

    ahundredthidiot says:
    5 April, 2020 at 1:45 am

    simply put….you’re not one of us, so why not fuck the fuck off you plant arse pish talking unionist arsehole

    Hah hah, well that’s the first time I’ve been accused of being a unionist. I’d rather not be “one of us” if that means to be in your gang you have to act like an abusive prick.

  197. CameronB Brodie says:

    Getting back to weather I’m an elitist, or not, and my attitude towards those who actively shun knowledge. I appreciate many will actively shun my links as they are intellectually intimidating. I am sorry for any discomfort this may have caused, but knowledge must be free. I am trying to keep this stuff as accessible as possible.

    Full text.

    Arendt, democracy, and judgment

  198. CameronB Brodie says:

    “weather”? 🙂

  199. Col.Blimp IV says:


    You Big Bangheads are as unfathomable to me as Unionists.

    A medieval peasant looking at a representation on a stained glass window of Christ ascending to heaven has not seen proof of the resurrection.

    You lot looking at NASA provided CGI have not seen proof that man walked on the moon.

    Superstition and science are not what separates you.

    Blind Faith in the “official truth” is what binds you together.

    Unionists share your faith in “official truth” – how else could they BELIEVE that Scotland, a land with more tangible and intangible assets per head of population than the overwhelming majority of the worlds nations – Is uniquely unsuited to self government?

  200. Golfnut says:

    @ Mist 100.

    Don’t be stupid, of course the magna Carta is relevant, we are talking about dusty old docs and declarations. What was the magna Carta if not a declaration, why would you question the significance of the Declaration of Arbroath and not the magna Carta. Why would the British state go to such lengths to promote one and completely ignore the other.

  201. CameronB Brodie says:

    There’s nowt stranger than folk. 😉

    Educated intuitions. Automaticity and rationality in moral judgement

    P.S. Brexit closes the constitutional dialog in Britain, thereby stifling the Scottish cultural imagination. This undermines Scottish culture as well as global sustainability, which is supported through a plurality of knowledge. Especially cultural knowledge and practices.

    Brexitania will only allow Scottish cultural practice that is consistent with English Torydum. That’s not how liberal constitutionalism works. British constitutional law lacks legal coherence and compatibility with international human rights law, and is not the tool to fix the crises.

    A lack of access to justice is harmful to our health in general, not simply our psychological and moral well-being.

  202. jackie says:

    News bulletins full of Britnattery, Unionjackery and english Rule Britannia bullshit today.

    Preparing the “Nation” for the Lizzie speach later on today.

    And remember and keep your windows open and watch all your problems magically float away.

    Brings a tear to the eye just writing this.

    Go Lizzie!!!

  203. Willie says:

    Getting back to the absolute outrage of front line health service doctors and nurses being asked to treat patients without adequate masks and gowns I see reports today that Sir Keir Starmer has broken ranks and mounted an attack on Prime Minister Johnson to explain why we are so short of equipment and what he is going to do about it.

    High time that someone broke the cosy cartel protecting Tory incompetence. Maybe therefore the toadying Nicola who only two weeks ago was paying public tribute to Johnson’s Government could take note. People are dying Nicola. NHS staff are exposed and being infected.

    So message to Sturgeon. You know our medical staff are being left short. You know we do not have anything like enough ventilators. You were concerned enough to propose to suspend our justice system by removing jury’s – but not a cheep about Westminster’s let them die policy.

    Maybe if instead of toadying to Westminster, accepting their ‘ let em die ‘ policy, accepting their failure to plan and provision for supplies, we wouldn’t be in the position we are now in.

    Like Brexit, like IndyRef2 or any alternative approach, Nicola Sturgeon has once again shown to be wilfully wanting through her acceptance of the let em die policy.

  204. jackie says:

    In the 1930s 40s and 50s the only way Scots could get live news updates on Scottish affairs and live Scottish sports commentary was to tune into a Radio.

    And now in 2020, the age of soffisticated tele communications, the only way Scots can get updates on Scottish affairs and live sports updates,,,,,,,,,,,is to tune into a Radio.

    Scotland, the only country in the whole Universe that is caught in a 1930s timewarp.

  205. Robert Louis says:

    Finding it hard to believe, that the Labour party, the party which claims it wishes to abolish the house of lords (yet never, ever does) now has his lordship, Sir Keir Starmer as its leader.

    But there is precedent for a peer within the Labour party taking on a high profile role, Tony Benn. Tony Benn’s full name and title, until 1963, was Anthony Neil Wedgewood Benn, 2nd Viscount Stansgate. Benn disclaimed his peerage in July 1963. He therafter once again became Tony Benn.

    Will his lordship, Sir Keir Starmer, now do the same and dislaim his peerage? We should all continue to use his FULL and correct title, until he does so.

    So much for socialism, Labour, eh? Champagne socialists, each and every one.

  206. Sharny Dubs says:

    The road to Wigan Pier.

    ‘‘Twas always so.

  207. Sensibledave says:

    Shug 20.59

    Your comment just about sums up the very definition of tin foil hat conspiracy theorism.

    On the previous thread, when nut jobs like you pursued this line, ie “the English are hiding their death rate” rubbish, a large number of commenters attempted to gently tell them they were wrong and that the data was on tv and online.

    Clearly, you are so entrenched in your bunker you have finally lost the plot. Throughout the 4.00pm press conference, there was a rolling banner providing the numbers. If, in telling you that, you believe that makes me a member of some underground movement, then I think you are completely lost!

  208. Willie says:

    Meanwhile, in the good old USA, and a country very much in lockstep with the UK’s neoliberal thinking, President Trump has today announced that the country needs to brace itself for a “ very horrendous “ surge in deaths.

    And my how the good ol boys can whoop at that. Like Johnson and Cummings, President Trump also played the “ protect the economy and let em die “ policy.

    My fuck you can just hear the howls of national pride as they die in their hundreds of thousands without the aid of ventilators. Whoop, whoop, whoop, Trump will have the country back to work by Easter. The virus was just a hoax – well that’s what he said only a few weeks ago.

    But do I make light of a human tragedy. Well grimly yes I do because we followed the same economic diktat here – allowed ourselves to be taken down that same road and

    Folks need to understand the consequences of allowing modern day mass murderers to calculate life as a mere opportunity cost to be sacrificed at the alter to the economy. They need to understand the thinking that says …….” and if a few pensioners die, too bad “

    Whilst meanwhile our brave NHS staff go to work to help save, help treat people in extremis. Ditto our carers go into care homes to support those needing care. To all of them and more I say society owes them a debt of gratitude. Yes we can happy clap at our doors when the Beeb tell us to do so, and like sheep we do so in a meaningless gesture of goodwill.

    Far better if we all came together with a political will to ensure that never again will the elites treat so many as economic cannon fodder in a cynical heartless policy that put economic financial interest before people.

  209. Robert Louis says:

    Capella at 741pm,

    I agree with both yourself and Craig Murray. It is clear, that political careerists, who actually have zero interest in independence, have taken over the higher levels of the SNP. Because of the SNP pathetic stance on Brexit and lack of momevement on independence, I gave up my membership of the SNP.

    In recent times, however, I have been re-thinking that. If those of us who truly want independence (and not just to play political games as a career)leave the SNP, then all that will be left will be the juvenile wokerati infiltrators.

    It is clear that left wing nutters and their associates who would have in the past clung on to the Labour party, are now like leeches sucking from the SNP. They care nothing about Scotland, Scottish Sovereignty or, indeed, Scottish independence. Craig Murray gives clear evidence of that.

    I do still think, however, that NS position as leader is no longer tenable. Firstly due to recent court events, and secondly for the fact that in five years she has done nothing to advance independence, despite brexit and the worst English government and Labour party I can remember (and I lived through thatcher and Michael Foot). Talk about an open goal..

    Being generous, maybe some of it is bad decisions, maybe some of it is bad choices, maybe some of it wasn’t intended to reach the levels it did, but that doesn’t matter. The buck stops with her. It happened on her watch. If she has any honour or integrity left she should do the right thing. I fully expect she will.

    At the next Scottish parliamentary elections, I would definitely give my second vote to a wings or similar type pro-independence party. I simply will not vote SNP with NS in charge. She has to go. It’s about independence, which we now know, we will never have under NS. She literally threw away our best ever chance in over three hundred years.

  210. Sensibledave says:

    Dan 12.21

    … I am glad to help. Given that you are happy to donate to to those that are helping you in your goals and education … should I provide you with my bank details?

    On the generality, if you read a thread, you will note that I often get attacked by many people who make many different points. In my mission to educate and inform, I have limited time (I have other jobs advocating on behalf of kitten euthanasists and as Tottenham Hotspur’s PR department) so I don’t always give all commenters the degree of concentration they might deserve.

    I make a solemn promise to you. If you write rubbish again, I will respond specifically and to the point .

    Are we good now?

  211. Bill McLean says:

    Robert Louis at 0818. Keir Starmer is not a lord. He is a Knight Commander of the order of the Bath. I know it’s a load of nonsense but he was given a “knighthood” for his services as Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales. A knight is not a peer as those other horrors Jack McConnell, George Foulkes, John Reid and other notable Scottish ex-politicians are. As far as I know “knights” get no financial reward whereas peers, of which there are 6 varieties (bit like liquorice allsorts but not as useful) get £300 a day for turning up at the House of Lords – sometimes known as that “shithole in London”! I suspect that the class ridden English establishment to have another Tory elected as leader of the Labour party!

  212. robbo says:

    For the dummies davie non sense , Mist001- yoon in France

  213. Bill McLean says:

    Sorry folks! “I suspect that the class ridden English establishment will be delighted to have another Tory elected as leader of the Labour party!”

  214. Robert Louis says:

    Bill McLean at 0852,

    Hmmm… you are right.

    I do recall, however, that as regards Tony Benn, when he was younger, there were still those on the left who had their doubts about him, due to his background.

    Wasn’t Tony Benn responsible for the building of the ethylene cracker plant at Mossmorran?

  215. Robert Louis says:


    Wow that graphic at the top of the WGD article, really, really nails just how sh*t this undemocratic unwanted union with England really is. It should be made into a poster.

    Meanwhile, anybody got any suggestions of good telly on tonight around 8PM, which doesn’t feature auld Betty Saxe Coburg??

  216. Bill McLean says:

    Robert Louis at 0901 – not bothered about being right or wrong Robert but good to get the basic facts right in a discussion or else the you-know-whos will be all over you…… and of course they love this class stuff – makes them feel superior and exceptional ha ha ha. Tony Benn inherited a peerage (viscountcy) from his father which he managed to get rid of eventually!Don’t know about his being involved in Mossmorran which opened in 1981 I think. Labour were not in “power” then I dont think. I’m sure Google could confirm for you. I used to live near Mossmorran – a mess! But like the nukes it was OK it was only in Scotland.

  217. Famous15 says:

    “In my mission to educate and inform”

    Sensible Dave,that well known Tottenham Hotspur fan presides over this site like a crow on a telegraph pole looking for roadkill.

    He will swoop down and gobble up, er I mean “educate and inform”.

    Was that not the mission statement of the British Council in India just prior to 1947?

  218. Sensibledave says:


    …. oh dear. You are not very bright are you.

  219. Golfnut says:

    Keir Stammer was I believe involved in dropping the case against Saville for lack of evidence, estimated numbers abused by Saville 500. But if your Charlie and Thatchers pal.

  220. jackie says:

    Scotland is under a media blackout and our only source of any kind of news is from a foreign country (england).

    So all the information we get is about england.

    Why the fuck is the Cooncil Chamber at Holyrood accepting this?

    Nicola,,,for fuck sake, do something for Scotland,,,you could start by taking back control of our Health Service and our media.

    Move your arse Nicola, it’s never too late to show sceptic’s like me that you are not a Unionist Patsy.

  221. Republicofscotland says:

    “During the wars of independence Edward I asserted he held the suzerainty over Scotland and Scottish monarchs should kneel before him and swear fealty. Some were indeed force to do that. The Bruce refused and he famously knifed the Red Comyn who Edward backed,”


    That’s not quite how it happened, William Wallace, all six foot seven of him, was at that time before his death the only Scot not to have sworn fealty to Edward I. He told him so, though Edward could not bare to look at him at his kangaroo trial in London.

    Bruce had sworn alliegence to Edward I prior to Wallaces execution, like his grandfather Robert the Competitor, he had one eye on the Scottish throne, plus he had land and estates in England to think about.

    However the great turning point came that forced Bruce’s hand in 1305, was when Wallace’s capture revealed that on his person he had favourable letters from the the Bruce, Edward who looked kindly on the Bruce before this, changed, and ordered his capture.

    John (Red) Comyn was a rival to the throne of Scotland and at one point a Guardian of Scotland as was the Bruce, Scots barons and magnates changed sides frequently, they swore fealty with their fingers crossed behind their backs, Comyn now saw his chance eliminate Bruce a main contender for the throne.

    But Bruce had gotten wind of Comyns plans,and at a angry meeting in Greyfriars church Bruce stabbed Comyn but left with him still alive, if I recall right one of his lieutenants went back into the church and finished him off.

    This set in motion one of greatest stories ever in Scotland that saw the Bruce, or as the people of Scotland came know him as Good King Robert, who went from sitting in a cave alone watching a spider attempt again and again to spin a web across a seemingly unbreachable length for such a small creature to achieve.

    To having all the knights in Christendom pay homage to him through his renowned knight James (Black) Douglas, a formidable man himself, at a crusade where Douglas carried the Bruces heart in a silver cask around his neck.

  222. Golfnut says:

    The Bruce was also given the accolade of the 2nd knight of Christendom after Charlemagne.

  223. Bill McLean says:

    …. and Roger Kirkpatrick shouted “i’ll mak siccar” and went back into the church to kill Comyn! “I’ll mak siccar” remains the motto of the Kirkpatricks to this day. However Scottish history as written by English historians is quite different! Aren’t they naughty?

  224. Republicofscotland says:

    Golfnut. Bill.

    It warms my heart to see some folk know their history.

  225. Effijy says:

    Biased BBC Bastard Brewer on TV going on and on and on about
    Catherine visiting a holiday home against her own advice.

    They have also found a senior policeman to condemn the situation.

    She is a very knowledgeable Health Advisor working day and night
    She knows the situation here in Scotland better than any politician.

    Would Brewer be happy to sack her and bring in less knowledgeable ?

    She herself can answer any questions as it has nothing to do with Mike Russell or SNP.

    Now he attacks in the nursing home with 13 fatalities.
    You better believe there are multiple victims in these homes in England
    They have occurred in various cruise ships and let’s not forget the Tory Ministers
    Who all caught the virus and spread it by not following their own advice.
    They survived because they were younger and they queue jump for medical assistance.

    A bigger story here if the BBC wasn’t the British propaganda channel would be to applause our NHS
    for being better prepared, setting higher targets and having TWICE the survival rate of the English NHS.

    Need to turn him off now as my TV’s Health is in danger.

    He has just suggested that we need to do more testing and then moves on to ask. If we are wasting
    A resource testing everyone?

  226. Bill McLean says:

    Republic – ta! Just interested and since I wasn’t taught any at school I decided to start learning it and have been for over 50 years. Scotland has a fascinating history, as do many other countries, some of course only teach what reflects well on them – we do it warts and all. How many English people do you know who have any idea of the “Counter Armada”? Really interesting but not if you are English. Don’t get me wrong I love English people, like I love Chinese, Spanish, Italian etc and my wife is a Brummy but they are indoctrinated from beginning school. Why else would they put up with this bullshit with appeals to a wartime spirit all the time?

  227. Breeks says:

    I’m struggling today.

    I thought I’d be delighted that the Declaration of Arbroath would be on everybody’s lips, and public awareness of Scotland’s popular sovereignty would grow from the flicker of a candle in darkness into a benign conflagration that filled us all with hope and expectation of deliverance.

    Today the Declaration of Arbroath has a 100,000 followers it didn’t have yesterday, but forgive me, they only celebrate the words and the dreams. They are looking at at a key, and marvelling at the bespoke metallurgy, the intricate craftsmanship in it’s forging, the wonder of it’s mechanical function. “Behold! All hail the Key! Isn’t it an exquisite artefact?”

    Exquisite? Yes. But Artefact? Artefacts are for glass cases in museums. You do not value a key by it’s age, foresight, or ingenuity. The worth of a key is what it unlocks.

    Today we marvel at the existence 700 year old key, but this time next week, the key will just be an exhibit back on display in a museum, a curious relic of a time gone by.

    By all things holy Scotland, I cannot understand this blindness that so afflicts so many my Nation. Is it some kind of spell or incantation? A device of witchcraft or sorcery? The value of the Declaration of Arbroath is not it’s antiquity, but the power to be sovereign which it enshrines in all of us.

    For God’s sake, for Scotland’s sake, STOP lauding the Declaration of Arbroath as an artefact, and see the key for what it is, the means to unlock the chains that bind us, and free ourselves from the entrapment of this Union.

    I despair Scotland. Can I suggest something? Find a piece of paper, and a pen, all of you throughout Scotland, and write across the top, “WE ARE SOVEREIGN”. Then spend the 700th Anniversary of the Document which made you sovereign, writing down what being sovereign actually means.

    The Architects of the Union haven’t gelded Scotland’s Unicorn, but I fear they may have put out it’s eyes and dulled it’s wits.

    The Declaration of Arbroath is our sovereign key, and Brexit, specifically Scotland’s unconstitutional Brexit against our sovereign will, is the chain and padlock around our neck.

    BEFORE we are dragged to their doom, please, PUT THE DAMNED KEY IN THE LOCK AND TURN IT.

    Scotland CANNOT be Brexited against it’s will. KNOW THIS AS A TRUTH. Ian Blackford wasn’t wrong when he said this, he was WEAK for not standing firm demanding constitutional justice for Scotland be respected. He stood back from the tipping point.

    Be in no doubt, Brexit is not their clever victory, it is our senseless and unwarranted capitulation! It is our utterly miserable and unforced, wretched abdication of sovereignty, right at the point when the mere existence of our sovereignty could win us not merely the game, set, and match, but leave us owning the tennis court complex.

    I cannot make it any clearer. I have no more words in me.

    You must either embrace the Constitution which lets you stand as sovereign, or embrace the Constitution which defines your Nation as extinct. I’m sorry, but I find it nauseating we would bravely celebrate the one, while we kneel and meekly do the other.

  228. Capella says:

    R Scotland was no better. On the 700th anniversary of the Declaration of Arbroath they chose to celebrate instead the “Radical War” of 1820 because that was in fact a BRITISH radical movement. The Declaration of Arbroath was mentioned in the passing but only to say that it was “not relevant”.

    The newspaper review had David Leask and Penny Taylor salivating over Dani Garavelli’s further thoughts on the Alex Salmond trial. When will this trial ever end? They managed to mention his QC in trouble too. Gosh they are thorough when it matters.

    The long interview was a pre recorded interview with a Labour Lord called ? Gordon who happened to know the right people and became the head of Radio Clyde. He might have gone further but the House of Lords and chairmanship of some national board “beckoned”.
    I wouldn’t bother listening to the podcast unless your blood pressure is too low and needs raising.

  229. Republicofscotland says:

    Yeah Bill its a crying shame that very little Scottish (our own history) is or has been taught to children in our schools.

    Like you say we must seek out and educate ourselves to empower ourselves of our history.

    Counter Armada, was the the attack on England by Phillip of Spain during ElizabethI rule? I know a little, I’ll defer to your knowledge on the matter.

    As for Wallace, its a common misconception (enforced centuries after his death) that he arose from Renfrewshire, (Elderslie) when infact he originated from Ayrshire (Ellerslie).

    As for the English or any other nations I have no resentment or anger towards them.

  230. CameronB Brodie says:

    I see no educational practice in the shite you rights. What about some legal substantiation of your political position? Prove to the readers that British constitutional law is diologic. Show them how Brexit is consistent with international human rights law. Then I might consider the possibility that you’re simply not a hop, skip and jump away from being a full-fat fascist.

  231. Sensibledave says:


    … I don’t know what dialogic means (and I confess I don’t really care). I rather suspect that most other people don’t either. Which brings us back to you being unrelatable to most normal folk.

  232. Sensibledave says:


    It is hard for me to imagine how you feel. You have expressed your personal views with passion and pride. I do not know how to square the circle for you.

    Contrary to the way I am characterised by many here on wings, I personally wish only the best for Scotland and Scottish folk. The dilemma is balancing the result of the indyref with your position.

    Now you may have issues with Westminster but it is my only government. That Parliament voted, by a huge majority to hold a “once in a generation” referendum to decide Scotland’s future in, or out, of the Union. You know the result. It wasn’t Westminster or Voters in England, Wales or NI, that voted in your referendum, just Scottish voters.

    As a Democrat, what is it that you expect the rest of the UK to do, given the democratic result of the indyref? What rights do the majority of Scots voters have that voted to stay in the Union. What solution do you propose and when should that solution be sought?

  233. Tony Hay says:

    I cant believe the FM ain’t sacked Calderwood as shes looking to tough it out. The arrogance of this woman who is the CMO,totally ignoring her advice to the plebs is unbelievable.

    Still maybe the FM wont act as the CMO is female and she as we all know doesn’t like sacking woman…..

    You have fucked up FM,get it sorted.

  234. CameronB Brodie says:

    I’ve tried to educate you. You’ve shunned the opportunity. I’m sure if Locke ever met you, he’d be ashamed to be English.

  235. CameronB Brodie says:

    There’s always hope. 😉

    Democracy: in theory and practice

  236. CameronB Brodie says:

    Why am I confident dave’s post contain zero educational value?

    Full text.

    Practice Theory and Education: Diffractive Readings in Professional Practice

  237. t42 says:

    The arrogant CMO has behaved irresponsibly and needs to be told to stand down.
    Plenty of qualified replacements are available.
    And what of Prof June Andrews who joked “the virus might be quite useful”.
    This pair of smug faced, taxpayer funded, entitled careerists, can get their jotters.

  238. Col.Blimp IV says:


    “That Parliament voted, by a huge majority to hold a “once in a generation” referendum to decide Scotland’s future”

    Therein lies the rub – as your national bard might put it.

    Did the Johnny Foreigner Parliament in Brussels/Strasbourg vote to permit a “once in a generation” referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU?

    Nope – None of their blooming business!

    Yet the UK Government attests that referenda on Scotland’s future is something that is in Westminster’s gift forever more.

    Doesn’t seem much like cricket to me, old bean.

  239. mike cassidy says:

    Capella 11.09

    I think you’ll find his death last week meant any interview with James Gordon, Baron Gordon of Strathblane was going to fall into the category of ‘pre-recorded’

  240. Dan says:

    “…once in a generation…” Bingo! lol

    Yet you have the brass neck to tell me:
    I make a solemn promise to you. If you write rubbish again, I will respond specifically and to the point .

    Folk, including myself, have already corrected you in various ways on that subject since your return from your sabbatical, but you just can’t accept things have moved on since 2014.
    Whilst you were away HYUFD flew that OIAG kite so hard it got shredded to the point there was just the memory of where a thread of that kite used to be.

  241. Golfnut says:

    @ Dave the Hypocrite.

    The hypocrite would have you believe that having 500 English mps voting to graciously grant Scots the opportunity to decide on their future was somehow all very democratic. That the drunken rabble that voted down every amendment put forward by the SNP to at least try and achieve delivery of Vow was democratic. That EVEL, where Scots, Irish and Welsh mps are excluded from voting on budgets, where they impact on Barnett consequentials. That Westminster have awarded themselves the right to amend or remove any bill passed by Holyrood. That westminster included within the withdrawal a clause which allows themselves to assume consent whether given or not. Democracy is a joke in the UK.

  242. robbo says:

    Tony Hay says:
    5 April, 2020 at 12:00 pm
    t42 says:
    5 April, 2020 at 12:20 pm

    Please tell us who you suggest replaces her as CMO ?
    Wouldn’t be some tory would it by any chance?

    Has Charlie relinquished his entitlement to the throne?

  243. Sensibledave says:

    Golf nut, Dan, col Blimp, et al

    Good stuff guys. Well thought out and constructive comments.

    Let me try a more aggressive approach then and see how that works….

    Given that there was a referendum and the result was as you know. Given that since the referendum there have been umpteen times on here that there have been “this is the moment to call for indyref 2 initiatives. Given that the UK is leaving the UK, almost certainly taking Scotland with it. Given Covid 19. Given The now clear split within the Independence movement. … what exactly is your plan???

  244. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dave the omniscient
    Teach the Scottish public the value of human rights. Teach the Scottish public how subjugated they are. Then let nature take its’ course. You’d know that if you had any idea about ethical educational practice, and the role it plays in supporting democracy.

  245. Stoker says:

    CameronB Brodie wrote on 5 April, 2020 at 12:13 pm: “Why am I confident dave’s posts contain zero educational value?”

    Because like the rest of us you can read. 😉

    I believe he’s the same boring and monotonous twat who used to frequent a site called ‘Our Scotland’. He may still do but i could be wrong. He’s certainly good for the post count here on WOS and that’s about all he’s good for.

    Quite the sad individual. Imagine committing to spending your days deliberately deceiving folk whilst trying to come across as a nice & decent person. Tiring work = sloppy performances!

  246. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK, that the simplest explanation. 😉

  247. Tony Hay says:

    Robbo @ 1.38pm

    You couldn’t be more wrong dude….

    Fuck the tories,fuck big ears,that’s how I roll.

    The good doctor has made a monumental error of judgement,now others will think it’s ok to flaunt the rules,so she must go. I believe she has qualified deputies? Oh and she a gynaecologist by trade,not an expert in viruses,shes got to go.
    Typical of the upper middle class sense of entitlement in this country.

  248. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry folks, I appreciate my grammar and syntax is poor today. For those who judge me unkindly, what’s your position concerning the epistemological integrity of legal justification?

  249. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Sensibledave at 11:51 am.

    You typed,
    “Now you may have issues with Westminster but it is my only government. That Parliament voted, by a huge majority to hold a “once in a generation” referendum to decide Scotland’s future in, or out, of the Union.”

    No it didn’t! What you should have typed was,
    “That Parliament voted, by a huge majority to hold a referendum to decide Scotland’s future in, or out, of the Union.”

    The phrase “once in a generation” was coined during the campaign, well after the vote at Westminster. No matter how many times you type “once in a generation”, it is still obvious that it was an OPINION, not set in stone for evermore.

  250. Sensibledave says:


    I accept your point.

    So, if you are an ordinary voter in Scotland, and if you had been asked to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence and you voted and gave your answer… would you expect to go through the same process annually, every three years, five years, etc … because those that were in the minority think it’s time to do it again.

    Please answer on behalf of ALL voters in Scotland.

  251. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brexit demands all those living in Scotland support the political morality of English Torydum, in complete contradiction of the moral justification of the British constitution. Dave doesn’t appear to understand liberal constitutionalism, so is unable to support it. His guff is corrosively toxic to democracy and open society.

  252. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I’d expect another referendum when the opinion of a majority of Scots is that we should dissolve the Treaty of Union and restore our independence.

  253. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dave can not support democracy, as he claims he does, as he is culturally biased and he appear to be ignorant of the principle of liberal constitutionalism. I have tried to improve his understanding of natural law and legal epistemology, but to no avail. Dave is closed to ethical reason.

    Full text.

    Justification, Coherence, and Epistemic Responsibility in Legal Fact-Finding

  254. Keith fae Leith says:

    Dave @ 3.06
    Can’t speak for All the voters in Scotland or even the ordinary voter.

    But, it’s a big but, those voters who understand the version of attempted democracy, would state that:
    Whenever there are elections, we vote for a person standing on a manifesto.
    When the votes are counted & people elected, they form a Government.
    The Government in theory enacts their manifesto.
    Given that the term of the Scottish parliament was always fixed as 4 years, then said referendum count only occur every 4 years if the Government were elected to do so.

    Really quite simple, if people don’t understand that very basic, primary school breakdown of how this current attempt at democracy works then they should stay at home on election day & watch I’m a love Island celebrity, come dance with me as I get out of here.

    So, if you are an ordinary voter in the U.K and if you had been asked to vote in a General Election and you voted and gave your answer… would you expect to go through the same process annually, every two to three years, when there is a fixed term applied to General Elections of five years, etc … because those that were in the minority think it’s time to do it again?

  255. CameronB Brodie says:

    Dave is trying to suggest he knows better than the legal perspective the Royal Town Planning Institute though I needed to follow. That’s the scale of his self-regard and sense of cultural entitlement.

    Full text.

    Justifying Knowledge, Justifying Method, Taking Action: Epistemologies, Methodologies, and Methods in Qualitative Research

  256. robbo says:

    Tony Hay says:
    5 April, 2020 at 2:21 pm
    Robbo @ 1.38pm

    Yes i see your point Tony but it seems an apology is not good enough for the unionist press who will gorge on this till she goes. I agree the lassie made a enormous error of judgement but her medical ability in not in question. Mistakes will be made as with all crises es, more so in battles against an hidden enemy and that of the brit state propaganda machine and brit media.

    Think FM defended her well i think there as is her job,which is not to throw your troops like “lambs to slaughter”.

    The only one i think would be fit enough at this stage if she were to be sacrificed is Jason Leitch.

    Watch the yoonery fest that will ensue now rampaged up as this that and the other hyperbole i’m sure,but feck them and more.We’re all human,unless your Boris or Trump that think their some type of gods who don’t make absolute enormous errors everyday and brush it off without an ounce of shame.

  257. Shug says:

    Sensible dave
    So nice to have you as a pal
    Numbers not on the BBC Web site!!!
    All the others are. Go back to cheltenham
    The press Conference today was as I said
    No examination of the action on face masks etc for health workers just a round of burn the witch

  258. Col.Blimp IV says:

    Poor Doctor C, She payed a leading role in devising and promoting a stupid “rule” which did nothing to enhance or diminish the effectiveness of social distancing.

    The purpose of which is anyone’s guess.

    Then chose to ignore it, hence her credibility has been blown to smitherines, hoisted by her own petard and time for her to fall on her own scalpel.

    The adoption of an “All animals are equal but some are more equal than others” doctrine, can only do harm to the fight against covid 19 and any other foe MS Sturgeon deigns to lead us against.

  259. CameronB Brodie says:

    Col.Blimp IV
    Mistakes can be made and she’s been questioned by the polis (?). She’s up-to-speed and full integrated in the response. These are other considerations. 😉

  260. Bill McLean says:

    Republicofscotland at 1109 – sorry about delay in replying. Quite busy at the moment and can spend less time on Wings than i’d like to:- for your info and I hope interest.
    Counter Armada
    Launched in 1589 by Elizabeth I of England hoping to capitalize on Spanish vulnerability following the Spanish Armada the previous year. The English attacked Corunna, Lisbon,the Azores and Madeira. It’s a long story but it resulted in the loss of 40 English ships for various reasons and between 11000 and 15000 English dead and many wounded. Simultaneously Spain was fighting France and the United Provinces of the Netherlands but it still resulted in the greatest naval disaster in English history – Queen Elizabeth I prohibited any publication about the disaster at the time and of course because it was a disaster, and ended in humiliation, is why you hear so little about it! Recently Lucy Worsley OBE historian, curator, author and Chief Curator of Historic Royal Palaces did a TV programme on it!
    Very interesting – if you like truthful history that is!

  261. Sensibledave says:

    Shug 4.27

    I’m not sure why you asking me to find things on the internet or tv for you. I have asked a few friends what they would do in your situation, apparently there is something called googly or google or something???

    Please tell me what point you are trying to make. Is “deep state” hiding things from you Shug (but telling everyone else)? Explain what your problem is and why you think I am responsible.

  262. Col.Blimp IV says:

    CameronB Brodie @5.23

    I confess to shooting from the hip, armed with my own prejudices rather than the facts.

    As I survey my not inconsiderable stack of bog-roll, UHT milk, baked beans and Fray Bentos Steak Pies etc, I don’t recall indulging in any self-flagellation for dishonestly logging my trips to the shop for cigarettes as “exercise”.

    Let he who is without sin… as they say.

  263. Sensibledave says:

    Keith 3.06

    You see the problem Keith. You haven’t given me an answer. Nor has anyone else.

    I really am not trying to be combative at the moment. ‘ Is anyone seriously asking for indyref2 in 2020? I would have thought with Brexit, Covid 19, etc, it is the last thing people want. Other than a few of the more strident here on wings, no one believes an indyref2 could be held, let alone won.

    At the end of this year, apparently, the UK will be leaving the EU (as a reminder I, together with about 70% of folk in my constituency, I did not vote to Leave). If that date sticks or is put back a quarter, I would have thought that most of the “floaters” in Scotland would want to have a “look see” before voting to eject themselves from the Uk as well as the EU.

    If you disagree with anything above, feel free to correct me, but at least tell me what the plan is!

  264. Republicofscotland says:

    Bill @5.33pm thank you Bill for that update, it brought to mind another incident of which I’m sure you’re familiar with the 1667 Raid on the Medway. An audacious raid by the Dutch up the Thames estuary which took Charles II’s weakened fleet by surprise, which saw the bold Dutch, tow away England’s Royal navy flagship.

  265. CameronB Brodie says:

    Col.Blimp IV 😉

  266. CameronB Brodie says:

    Want to improve your impartiality when viewing the world?

    Releasing Judgment – Living with No Judgement

  267. Keith fae Leith says:


    The problem with your reply at 6.18 is that I did answer you. I covered everything you asked in the 3.06 post. So re-read it & feel free to ask any other questions.

    Brexit is the reason/justification as per Manifesto commitments for an Indy Ref. So, yes, i and many others expect our elected representatives to follow through on their promise. If a snap election can be called & resolved in 12 weeks then so can a referendum, especially 1 where the question is already tested, the various media (Mainstream & state sponsored for No, social & that single newspaper for Yes) haven’t stopped reporting for their side of the debate.

    Covid19 is indeed a big problem, for humanity, never mind politics, so on that point I can concede some slippage in timescale.

    “floaters” as you delicately describe them can only make their minds up when you ask them a question. Not a pollsters question or a general election one. But a binary question, now that we as a UK are effectively out of the EU (despite promises in ’14 & more troubling for me, from the SNP elected representatives stating that we would not be dragged out against our will). Going back over the arguments would take forever in a day on here.

    You keep making the claim that you are basically a democrat, as I admit do I. So, why in that case is it democratically acceptable for the 7 or so democratic mandates stacked up by the SNP to be ignored, when the parties opposed to it get beaten consistently? I confess to not having ready the Tory manifesto’s in ’17 or ’19 as they were irrelevant to me. But can you link to where they explicitly stated in a manifesto that if elected they would deny the people of Scotland their democracy?

    I’m rejecting your premise about “ejecting ourselves from the UK & EU” as it has been made clear many times, that when/if Scotland become independent then they would be in a holding pen (like the UK are just now) until a decision is made for application to full membership. The EFTA nations have also unanimously said they would welcome Scotland no questions asked) So 1 way or the other, we Scots would be in the same position in terms of trade, human rights & freedom of movements as we are just now.

    I’m not a member of any party, let alone part of the Government, so I cannot speak to any plan.

    Thank you for trying to be civil, but stop trying to condescend me by claiming I hadn’t answered a question that you didn’t ask.

    I see that as a problem.

  268. Col.Blimp IV says:


    For me Indyref2 is a dead parrot.

    The SNP’s decision to try and save the UK from Brexit, rather than Scream “material change in circumstances” and demand Indyref2 immediately after the Brexit vote was counted.

    Westminster’s refusal to agree to a section 30, and the SNP’s fear that a referendum held without Westminster approval would be somehow less valid.

    And now we have the Black Death kicking it all even deeper into the long grass, makes it so.

    In my opinion the way forward would be the formation of a list only grouping as suggested by Rev Stu, which has been proved to be viable in the past by Margo McDonald and others.

    A declaration by all parties who support independence that if they are in the majority, the first business of the new parliament will be to begin negotiations for the dissolution of the United Kingdom.

    A truce between the various factions for the duration, would of course be mandatory – Any individual or grouping unwilling to comply would be demonstrating that they held their own ego’s or sectarian interests above the common good and disqualify themselves from participation.

    At best, this time next year we would be well on the way to being independent – At worst the Tr@#0r$, Knaves, Cowards and Slaves who lurk within the SNP will have the opportunity to turn and flee, before they are cast out, and we will discover whether Sturgeon and Salmond are the statesman/woman they think they are and the patriots they claim to be.

  269. Sensibledave says:

    Keith 7.53

    With the greatest respect … you posed questions rather than suggest a plan.

    It is clear to see from history that we have GEs regular and often, notwithstanding the fixed term parliament act. Referenda are very rare. Rerunning referenda is even more rare. I suppose one could argue that the Brexit referendum was a rerun of common market referendum.. but the two were so different I don’t think that holds.

    You argue that a referendum could be called and done in 12 weeks. If you wanted to even half a chance of winning it, you would need a lot longer than that.

    For what it’s worth, and as I stated on a previous thread, the next indyref, if it ever comes will see a Project Fear that makes the last one seem like a walk in the park. The SNP is in disarray, the shiny gloss of NS has faded, there are fights about party policy on things like GRA. AS may open a can of worms. Oil prices are down, the UK is leaving the EU. Too many imponderables and problems to call indyref2 before 2021. By then, who knows what other events will have come to the fore.

    Despite the criticism NS is now receiving, she is not stupid. I am guessing that the reason she has not pushed for indyref2 in recent years is simply because she knew she couldn’t win it. If indyref2 is held … and lost again, that really would be it for 15 years I guess.

  270. Capella says:

    @ mike cassidy – yes! it wan’t the “pre-recorded” bit I was questioning. Listening to him was a case study in Labour Party croneyism. He somehow gets appointed to head up R Clyde with no obvious experience, then into the House of Lords and the Chairman of some Board.

    Meanwhile, the rest of us believe we have to educate ourselves, get qualifications, spend years in the field gaining valuable experience, work our way up the hierarchy etc etc. When all you had to do was ingratiate yourself with the Labour Party leadership. A fitting subject for a R Scotland long interview.

  271. cynicalHighlander says:


    As it has always been as far back as I can remember and I am no youngster.

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