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The seizure of the means

Posted on October 19, 2020 by

If there’s still anyone left reading this site who doubts that the SNP National Executive Committee is currently engaged in a coup against the membership of the party, meant to be a fait accompli by the time the NEC is up for re-election at the end of November, we’d urge you to read the extremely disturbing letter below from the Convener of the party’s Constituency Association (CA) in Dumbarton, which he’s attempting to circulate to local members against obstruction from the NEC (pictured), who have shut down the branch mailer system from party HQ to stop the CA speaking to its members.

(We first saw it on Iain Lawson’s excellent blog, and are carrying out the request for it to be as widely distributed as possible.)

It’s long, so we’ve highlighted a couple of passages of particular interest.

“Dear Member

You may have received a communication from the National Secretary advising that the hustings organised by the CA will not now take place.

The National Executive of the Party has insisted that it will arrange a hustings.

The CA executive has been in constant discussion since Friday 16th October 2020 and met by Zoom this afternoon to respond to an email which I received late this morning from an employee of the Party, a Mr Chris Jones.

Following a further exchange of emails late this afternoon we were informed by Mr Jones acting on behalf of the National Secretary that our ‘event’ as he referred to it, must not go ahead.

I am instructed by the CA Executive to explain this matter to you.

When the National Executive Committee (NEC) issued its Candidate Vetting and Selection Rules (which can be read on the Constituency Associations were excluded from the process except for the arranging of a hustings. Every other aspect of the selection process was handled by the NEC unlike in previous elections.

The CA organiser/ secretary emailed online members an invitation to a Zoom hustings for 19th October. You were invited to submit questions beforehand to raise with the candidates. We also indicated that we hoped to record the meeting so that those who couldn’t attend would be able to view the hustings in order to assess the nominees before voting.

Following that invitation it was a matter of some concern to the CA executive that around 140 of our members (who are not online) would not be part of the hustings or have access to a recording of it. It occurred to us that there would be insufficient time for each nominee to adequately answer the questions put to them as by that point we had received a large number of questions.

To ensure the widest distribution of (A) all seven presentations and (B) answers to members’ questions, the CA executive explored the possibility of an exclusive Question and Answer session of 15 minutes with each of the seven nominees. All of these sessions would be recorded UNEDITED and made available online to all the members with online access (around 950).

This recording could be viewed immediately after the last session on 19th October 2020. Sadly as the NEC has made no provision for those members without online access, your CA executive had made arrangements to transcribe each session into a written format and post copies to all our non-online members.

Until we had put in place the recording and transcription we couldn’t advise the membership of the proposed changes. In the meantime the sixty members who have indicated as of today a wish to be part of the hustings have received an acknowledgement from me.

On Thursday, when we were confident that our proposal for seven interviews, unedited recording and transcription could proceed I was authorised by the CA executive to email all nominees with our proposal. None of the nominees offered any objection to us.

On Friday afternoon I had a telephone call with Mr Chris Jones who advised me that we could not hold the hustings as he said that in his opinion it wasn’t a hustings and we had to adhere to the guidance set forth by the NEC.

I interrogated Mr Jones at some length. (A) why the National vetting and selection process was generally viewed as “a shambles” ? (B) what was his authority for his claim that NEC guidance was obligatory? (C) was he not aware that the dictionary definition of hustings includes campaign meetings involving one or more speeches? I(D) why was the NEC treating the members without online access with such disdain when the NEC had a means to include them?

Furthermore I asked him who were the complainants were. At first, he said members but strangely later in the conversation he admitted it wasn’t members but candidates. I asked which candidates, but he refused to name them. He said that the event had to be live so that the members could see the nominees’ answer in real time but failed to appreciate that as the seven sessions were being recorded our members would have even more opportunity to consider each nominees’ answers and would also be able to ask each nominee to clarify any point through the personal email and telephone number of each nominee which some nominees have already published.

He then volunteered that there were a few known ‘hotheads’ (his words) in our local membership who might concentrate their attack on one or two nominees over a certain issue which is currently the cause of heated debate within the Party and beyond. He insisted that a strong neutral chair was required.

I replied that members were entitled to have opinions and to challenge the nominees on any issue which could impact on their selection of a candidate. I also commented that if a nominee had to be protected from the scrutiny of party members it did not augur well for his or her prospects as our candidate in the cut and thrust of the election .

I explained to him that the CA executive has had to change its proposed hustings three times to accommodate the changes which the NEC had made to the vetting and selection process, and that our proposal for individual Q and A sessions with each nominee, would give them the opportunity to make their responses without interruption in order that all members could witness the nominees’ arguments. Indeed the CA executive’s proposals ensured one topic, however important, would not dominate each interview. As the interviewer I had made it clear that I HAVE NOT AND WOULD NOT voice any personal preference for any nominee. I have already undertaken to abstain from voting in the selection process to ensure complete impartiality.

In the course of the conversation Mr Jones volunteered that the conversation was causing some amusement in the SNP HQ office. Members can draw their own conclusion as to whether this was an appropriate matter to be the subject of some amusement amongst SNP employees who are paid through members’ subscriptions when the highly important selection contest for our constituency in the forthcoming Independence Election was being discussed.

Sadly Mr Jones threatened to request the National Secretary to arrange a hustings if the CA executive did not change to the one which Mr Jones indicated was required by the NEC.

I indicated that I’d seek the views of the CA executive and revert to him.

I immediately contacted the CA executive and over the weekend there has been much discussion and outrage at the attempt by the NEC to interfere with our practical proposals to offer all our members an opportunity to engage in the democratic process. I have still not received any complaint or adverse comment from any of the nominees to our proposal.

Late this afternoon I was instructed by the CA executive to advise Mr Jones that the CA would not deny our members the widest involvement in the selection process and change the format. This I did.

I then received a response from Mr Jones, on behalf of the National Secretary, NOT to proceed with the hustings tomorrow evening and that the NEC would arrange its own hustings under what he termed a ’neutral’ chair.

I regret any inconvenience to members and the nominees as we all wish to ensure a fair and informed choice when selecting our candidate. However the CA executive is firmly and unanimously of the view that manipulation of the process is afoot. We strongly urge all members to register for the NEC hustings and submit robust questioning on the topics which matter to you.

As you know the AGM of the CA which was delayed as a result of the Covid 19 crisis, is taking place shortly . If delegates disagree with the actions of the CA executive they are free to vote for others to replace them.

Equally National Conference at the end of November will give all branch and CA delegates the opportunity to register their satisfaction or otherwise with the membership of the NEC. Please use your vote to maintain the democratic rights of all members.

Yours for Scotland

Graeme McCormick

The last paragraph there is the crucial and heartbreaking one. Because by the time party members can express a judgement on the actions of the NEC, it’ll be too late. The job will be done and the election will be stuffed with woke-faction candidates put in place through procedural chicanery, who as legislators will effectively control the party and the government from Holyrood regardless of who’s in the NEC at that point. They’ll have different faces, but it’ll be the same coup.

As so often with the New SNP, this site is reminded of a key quote from “1984”:

The fight is happening right now, readers. Don’t look away.


NB For the avoidance of doubt, Wings has no preference as to who should be the SNP candidate for Dumbarton. Of the seven people who’ve passed vetting and are seeking the nomination we’ve only heard of two – Math Campbell-Sturgess and Toni Guigliano – and we have no strong feelings about either of them. The other five – Karen Conaghan, Scott Lafferty, Lorna Douglas, Robert Thomson and Sid Khan – we know literally nothing about except their names.

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    1. 19 10 20 12:56

      The seizure of the means | speymouth

    317 to “The seizure of the means”

    1. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Is it still in the constitution that the CA has to approve or reject the last candidate standing.

      i.e. is not obliged to actually select a candidate at the selection meeting?

    2. Tartan Tory says:

      Having resigned from the SNP, I see little that I can do about this. It’s time for a new Nationalist party with Scotland at its heart. It’s time for Alex to step up to the plate. Nothing else is going to save us.

    3. Pat says:

      Lost quite a bit of sleep after receiving this last night.

    4. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon’s Nobblers Party (SNP).

    5. Col.Blimp IV says:

      I have probably got a copy of the constitution somewhere but 20 years worth of amendments have probably bombed it back to the stone age … will see if I can find an on line version.

    6. Ruglonian says:

      I’m absolutely disgusted by this.

      Every single day there’s another scandalous episode that both makes me glad that I’ve never been a member of a political party, and makes me despair as a voter that our democracy is so artificial.

      I am pro-indy so what voting options do I actually have?
      (this is why this is happening – the hubris of the SNP is borne of knowing all of this, and we all know it)

      The 3 unionist parties are so terrified of the prospect of independence that they will always equate a vote for them as anti-indy.

      That means they’re not on my list of options.
      Even if they weren’t all an embarrassment of ‘talent’, subsidised and dictated to by another country, and running on pure venom.

      The SNP are absolutely full of problems.
      I would be here all day if I was to list the issues I have had with them post-indyref.
      But basically, policy and lack of it, indy and brexit strategy, the development of the cult of personality leadership in replacement of a functioning democratic structure. Then, over the past few years I’ve become aware of the corruption.

      I can’t endorse that!

      But looking at the Greens (self-satisfied, yet completely ineffectual pricks), the SSP (genuine, with growing appeal until shown as naive when RISE did a right number on them), Solidarity (see cult of personality, brothers), ISP (no backbone or strategy to be more than a whisper) and you can see why I think our democracy is artificial.

      I’m really not joking when I say that I’m not going to take much more of this.
      If Scotland doesn’t wake the fuck up and get itself sorted soon then I’m leaving.
      I’m young enough to set myself up in a country who’s political cowardice doesn’t seriously depress me every single day!

    7. Tackety Beets says:

      Saw this last night, reaction “FFS!” fails to cover it.

      We are really fecked ! ?

    8. Graf Midgehunter says:

      It’s the complete takeover of the SNP by a clique who have no wish for member participation.

      I hope the Dumbarton CA raises all hell and gets the other CA’s around Scotland to dig in their heels, it has to be stopped dead in its tracks.

      NOW is the moment – chicken out and they’ve got you, stand up for your Rights or forget independence.

      It’s as simple as that.

    9. Baronesssamedi says:

      Oh man…

    10. Flower of Scotland says:

      I read this first thing this morning and was horrified. I’ve shared on Twitter and Facebook and messenger. We, in the SNP, have to stop these interlopers, and soon.

    11. Game of Drones says:

      Suddenly Jackie Bailey looks like the voters choice.

    12. iain MacGillivray says:

      I like Iain Lawson’s simple question…

      Will we get an answer..

      I doubt it…

    13. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon’s Politburo have been given freedom of action by the leader to do whatever it takes to shape the party in her own image and suborn members to her will.

    14. Col.Blimp IV says:

      I certainly think we need a loud and vociferous campaign to explain to folks, that regardless of what the SNP will be telling them 1 + 0.1[does not]= 2, where as 1+1[does] = 2.

      Perhaps something to include in a wee blue book.

    15. crisiscult says:


      I feel your frustration and share it. If you’re young, why not leave and improve your life. I’m in my 40s and moved back to Scotland a few years ago. I know that the British state has for 300 years managed to tackle Scottish secessionism through different means over that period including executions, forced migration, economic oppression (e.g. leading to much of our talent having to leave), etc. We will need enough passionate Scots in the future to escalate things, but I’m really hoping (and willing to help) to deal with this before May in sufficient time to grasp this big opportunity (once in a lifetime opportunity!!) to finally get independence.

      I don’t see ISP having enough impact unless we get some big names fronting it. The other distractions such as Greens need to be ignored. I don’t see them doing much about the current direction of the SNP on indy.

    16. lawrenceab says:

      @Ruglonian 12:37

      Good post. Heartfelt agreement, except I think you are a bit harsh on ISP. True they are yet small but they’re organised and seem to be democratic, making their way, and they do have clear policies and strategies set out on their website. These certainly do not include wokeishness: they are firmly against GRA

    17. lothianlad says:

      I can only speak for Midlothian and the shambles there. The current MP lost a 10,000 majority after he had sailed in on the tsunami in 2015.

      A political oppertunist, he saw his chance of selection and the comming SNP victory post 2014 when the parties membershhip rose to phenominal levels.

      Acting like the Labour party used to do in days gone by, he and his ilk realised that election was guarunteed by being successful in selection.

      An anti Independence strategy, or a definate side lining of independence was the strategy in 2019 when he managed to get selected again.

      New members are shunned so the control can remain at the CA centre, as they are determined not to lose control.

      He became pete wisharts lacky in 2017 after losing a massive majority, following his casual approach to solidifing the 10,000 majority won by hard working activists.

      In my opinion, Midlothian is riddled with careerists, who rarely post about Independence, far less campaign for it.

      He and his careerist supporters were quick to post about rape crisis Scotland in line with the Anti salmond wing when Alex was cleared of all the Allegations made against him.

      His partner has been looking for oppertunities to be selected for Holyrood also, and is every bit as much a careerist politician.

      The SNP membership need to expose this wing and return to RE-CLAIM the party from the careerists and woke wing who have done it so much damage.

      Scrutiny of the activities in Midlothian would be well worth while, I have a feeling this will happen.

    18. Betty Boop says:

      This is infiltration. Not even hiding it any more.

    19. susanXX says:

      It really is a coup. The SNP has gone to hell thanks to those deviant entryists, Labour’s spawn.

    20. kapelmeister says:

      When do we get to see the accounts Murrell?

    21. holymacmoses says:

      A new real SNP party is not only desirable and possible it has now become totally necessary in order to get the votes for next year.
      A question though:
      IF people spoilt their ballot paper at an election with exactly the same words – would those words become the wishes of the people is enough people used them?

      eg Spoilt Paper

      ‘Scotland for Independence’

      ‘Free Scotland’

    22. Breeks says:

      Still no takers for the notion of impeaching Holyrood for the unconstitutional abdication of Scottish Sovereignty which our forced removal from Europe represents?

      Impeach Holyrood with one hand, while setting up an emergency Convention of elected MP’s and MP’s to sit as ‘Parliament in Waiting’ outside and beyond the Parliamentary jurisdiction of Holyrood, Westminster, and all the accordant Scotland Act bullshit.

      Constitute the Convention by having each member swear fealty and allegiance to Scotland’s Constitution and the Popular Sovereignty of the People, as per Scotland’s Independent Government pre 1707, which in turn reflected the Scottish Constitution outlined in the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath and it’s subsequent International recognition in 1328.

      Initially, let the Convention be 100 members, as ‘THE’ hundred of us left alive, to which the Declaration of Arbroath makes explicit reference to and declares as adequate for the Constitutional voice of Scotland to be quorate.

      The Constitution of Members would then elect it’s own and new First Minister equivalent, displacing the Holyrood First Minister and the whole devolved Government. (Under impeachment – remember?).

      Reaffirm Scotland’s status as a Sovereign Nation State currently in a bi-lateral Treaty of Union with England, but declaring that Scotland has adjudged the Treaty to have been materially breached by the colonial act of Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation, and thus the UK Union is no more.

      Then Scotland does exactly what it did in 1320, and entreats the International Community, the UN and Council of Europe to formally recognise the 1707 Treaty of Union is no more, and the status of both Scotland and England is now as it was before 1707… two separate and independent Kingdoms.

      Announce thereafter a ratification plebiscite / election to be held within it’s first year, and have Scotland’s Constitutional emancipation democratically ratified by the people, who then use that poll to elect permanent members of the Scottish Parliamentary Convention, which, upon their election, ceases to be an Emergency Parliamentary Convention, and becomes the formally elected Government of an Independent Scotland.

      Not a single Wokist insurgent in sight.

      Carpe Diem Scotland.

      There is NOTHING in this which should scare us. The conventions of international Law are on our side. We are the ones who’s rights have been assaulted and we have legitimate grounds for grievance.

      One upon a time, defending Scotland meant putting your life on the line, risking death, maiming, potentially torture and abuse as a defeated captive, and all you had was pike staff or a sword in your hand, but an equally loyal patriot to your left and right. What would those soldiers think of a modern Scotland that is too frightened to simply hold its nerve and write a couple of letters? We have democracy before the event, (Scotland’s Remain Mandate), a ruling and action under International Law, and then we’ll have democracy after the event with our Ratification Plebiscite.

      Be brave Scotland. Carpe Diem.

      I’m looking at youz Joanna Cherry and Alex Salmond, and all the true Independence minded elected representatives who are sickened beyond the point of despair by the conduct of Bute House. We just need 100 Scots, and any who stand against us stand against the 1320 Constitution of Scotland.

    23. Peter says:

      Col.Blimp IV says:

      19 October, 2020 at 12:29 pm

      Is it still in the constitution that the CA has to approve or reject the last candidate standing.

      i.e. is not obliged to actually select a candidate at the selection meeting?

      That rule has mysteriously been done away with. I think we all know why

    24. Abalha says:

      Hmm but surely both the CA AND the NEC are at fault for different reasons, let’s not forget this is where Caroline McAllister was turned down by a vetting panel that included the favoured candidate Cllr Karen Conaghan, did this CA person kick up a fuss about that? E mail all the members they could get access to and raise a stink, doesn’t appear so.

      Also are people really comfortable with the fact the CA was proposing NOT to hold a live online hustings as others are doing but a very controlled one by one recorded interview?

      Nah for me neither side comes out of this well.

      What a sorry state the SNP is in.

      Oh and apparently Karen Conaghan took over as Cllr when her Dad stood down, Dumbarton appears to have a whole host of issues at a local level.

      As for the NEC well what a shower, and the Chris Jones mentioned is the SNP’s ‘Data and Digital’ person, started December 2014, a new post? How much does he earn and what’s in his job description that means he emails branches about their selections?

    25. SOG says:

      It’s all outside my experience, of course, but when hustings actually happen, is interference by the NEC in LA’s normal activities the sort of subject that potential candidates should be asked about?

    26. Beaker says:

      It is the nature of political leaders to want to control everything, rather than delegate.

      You would think that local party groups would have a much better understanding of local issues, and who the best local candidate would be.

      Yes, there will be some groups that are causing issues, but in my view only those causing problems in their area – ie losing support – are the ones that need handling.

      Trying to control things so the NEC choice candidates get selected is not the way forward. Labour tried this with Momentum and looked what happened there.

      As for allowing candidates to be put forward in more than one area…

    27. Lekraw says:

      Well, this on top of the Salmondgate stuff is just thoroughly depressing. Where do we go from here as an independence movement? Our only currently realistic vehicle, if we can even call it that anymore, has been hijacked by neoliberals and the wokerati. There is nothing to be gained from pretending that isn’t the case. So what do we do now?

    28. Liz says:

      And still, the oor Nicola brigade can see nothing wrong.

      I would love the impeachment idea.
      Is there anyone brave enough to take it on?

    29. Tartan Tory says:

      I’m certainly prepared to stick my head above the parapet with both action and finance, but I’m not a leader! Well, I’m not the leader that you would want. More of a Swinney than a Salmond, if you get what I mean!

      If Farage can start a party that wins seat at the first chance, I’m damn sure Alex could too. Calling Mr Salmond….. Telephone call for Mr Salmond….. Where are you Alex?

    30. Col.Blimp IV says:

      Peter :at 1:11 pm

      “That rule has mysteriously been done away with. I think we all know why”

      Jesus Fuck – Nae wonder Gerry Fisher resigned.

    31. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Breeks @ 1.10pm

      Me likee the notion there Breeks – I’m in.

      However, I think you might find many of our elected representatives – aye You Wishart and Co – would be loathe to give up their place on the gravy train.

      We are going no further with gradualism and seeking a Section 30 order. Westminster will never agree to a referendum again, so, we need to be bold and do something outside the box.

      If we had an Independence-minded FM, we would maybe be putting pressure on the Palace and forcing the Queen of Scots to stand up for Scotland.

      Has anyone thought of maybe putting a bill before Holyrood, in the interim, suggesting we remove the current Queen of Scots, for dereliction of duty in safeguarding Scotland’s interests over Brexit etc .

    32. Kate says:

      I can’t, I just won’t vote for the SNP at the May elections, as I find them under this FM to be as corrupt as ANY UNIONIST party we have ever had in Government. I have only ever voted SNP, supported them for the past 53yrs, was a member for 12yrs. But cut up my membership card Last year. I regret not doing it in 2016, when the BREXIT vote happened, & all we heard were the words, “Scotland WILL NOT be dragged out of the EU” Yet here we are.

      And of course NICOLA finding time to march & Rally to STOP BREXIT in a country that overwhelmingly voted for BREXIT, yet has never once spoken (even before Covid) about the huge numbers marching for INDY in our own country.

      With all that is going On in the party now, with WOKERS & GRA people taking over the NEC, Ensuring that THEIR CANDIDATES will Be the only candidates that pass their vetting process AGAIN screams corruption…I keep hearing it said that If you believe in INDY Then we MUST vote SNP in May, but I will NOT vote for corruption.

      And for those that say, let’s get INDY 1ST, then we can change the party, the truth is under this FM & her corrupt party there is NO chance of INDY anyway..

    33. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      I left America in 2016 after 11 years and came back to live in…America Lite, run by a gay high school-like freak geek clique.


    34. Gordon Keane says:

      In response to Breeks above, how you “impeach” the Edinburgh Parliament?
      Not sure how that’s sposed to work out.
      At any rate, surely the First Minister, who is leader of SNP has some say in all of this?
      Or is she too being controlled by others?
      I would have thought as the Party Leader, she could have got this sorted long before it reached this level.
      For this situation does rather make us a wee bit suspicious of the First Minister.
      We do definitely need a new Party for Independence.
      Many of us don’t trust the Greens, and SNP to date, has allowed London to do as it pleases rather than go all out for Independence.
      But the 2 smallish groups that have appeared recently don’t look like the new organisation we really need.
      The whole thing has been a major disappointment, to say the least.

    35. Kate says:

      Tartan Tory says:
      19 October, 2020 at 12:30 pm
      Having resigned from the SNP, I see little that I can do about this. It’s time for a new Nationalist party with Scotland at its heart. It’s time for Alex to step up to the plate. Nothing else is going to

      Oh God that is my dream.. Do you hear us ALEX, you country needs YOU now more than ever, if the dream is not to die..

    36. Astonished says:

      This is appalling.

      Who is Chris Jones? Who made the complaint? And why the immediate action ? A great many of us have complained regarding the NEC and so far – nothing.

      When did democracy die in the SNP?

      Obviously only the wokeratti count in today’s SNP.

      Let me warn the sitting MSPs – If you don’t stand up against this then you are finished. I will never vote woke or defend their handmaidens. I am most certainly not alone in this.

      The Dumbarton constituency association have tried to ensure all members are informed about the candidates’ positions. peter murrell has decided the truth reflects very badly on him and the wokeratti. In this he is right.

      The murrells, angus macleod,rhiannon spears,chris jones, liz lloyd have all got to go, as they have brought the party into disrepute.

      Chris jones before you leave the SNP, could you ensure that this complaint gets the same speedy attention as the anonymous complaint mentioned above . Thanks in advance.

    37. H Scott says:

      The problem is Sturgeon as ‘leader’ and the solution – the only solution – is to remove her.

    38. A Person says:

      Right, I’ve had it with this. This is fucking insane. Viscount Melville, who ran Scotland for Pitt the Younger by bribing the thousand or so men who could vote, would be ashamed of this level of sleaze.

      Frankly, if this can go on and all it gets in response from 99% of the public is “och she’s doing a great job in her press conferences”, then perhaps we’re not fit to govern ourselves after all. It really has undermined my own faith that much.

      But rather than go down that road, let’s try something a bit more positive.

      Anybody fancy organising a meeting (presumably over Zoom or Teams) where like-minded people can start a plan? We need to get MPs, MSPs, councillors and the media involved.

    39. Kate says:

      Liz says:
      19 October, 2020 at 1:17 pm
      And still, the oor Nicola brigade can see nothing wrong.

      I would love the impeachment idea.
      Is there anyone brave enough to take it on?

      I know a VERY BRAVE MAN, one this corrupt SNP party tried hard to destroy, COME ON ALEX, STEP FORWARD, let’s stand a truly INDY party agains the MANDATE PARTY..

    40. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Will we get an answer..

      I doubt it…”

      The answer is No. At least one of the Alphabet Women has definitely passed vetting and is seeking nomination.

    41. Bugger Le Panda says:

      Right, just who is masterminding this coup d’etat?

      Dominic Cummings?

      “Smells like shite”

    42. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Who is Chris Jones?”

      I emphasize that I do NOT know this for certain, but I would hazard a fairly confident guess that it’s this prick:

    43. Robert Graham says:

      Anyone remember the comments from previous labour party members when they were tearing up their membership cards ” I did not leave the Labour party the Labour Party left me ” take note SNP NEC unless History is remembered its destined to be repeated , and by duck you lot are making the same mistake , I say this as a on looker because my membership was binned , no fault of my local branch a great bunch of people ,it was the antics of the residents of Bute House

    44. SOG says:

      Further to the comment by The Rev at 1341…

      A previous posting on YfS by Iain Lawson asks a question about vetting and any Alpabet Women who may be standing. I suggest it’s worth reading –

    45. kapelmeister says:

      Power grabbing from Holyrood by Westminster, power grabbing from the SNP members by the Sturgeon clique. Our democratic rights – such as they were – are receding swiftly.

    46. Lorna Campbell says:

      These people are beyond the pale. They are acting like a ruling clique within a party in order to ensure, come 2021, they are in a position, with an enhanced majority, to introduce all the ‘wokist’ policies they want. Independence will be kicked into the long grass, finally. We have had one high heid yin after another appearing in The National, telling us to wait…wait…wait…keep the heid…keep the heid…keep the heid… No co-incidence. Deliberate and bare-faced lying to the people who elected them. They really have not the slightest, tiniest intention of bringing independence.

      Even if there is a vaccine early next year, it will be cries of anguish over the economy: “oh, woe is me…we can’t leave yet…” Then something else will be dredged out of their imaginations – limited and shrivelled as they are, seared by the extreme heat of careerism and ambition harnessed to ‘wokism’ – that will mean we will have to wait a while longer…until…no tomorrow for Scotland or our parliament. In their arrogant, heedless capture of the party, they will destroy it from within while the FM stands next to some of the most immoral people on the planet, grinning like the Cheshire Cat. She should remember that the Cheshire Cat gradually – appropriate word there – disappears.

    47. Breeks says:

      Gordon Keane says:
      19 October, 2020 at 1:24 pm
      In response to Breeks above, how you “impeach” the Edinburgh Parliament?

      Take a leaf out of Westminster’s book. When their unwritten Constitution lacks explicit detail or guidance on a particular matter, they simply empower themselves (as a Sovereign rightfully can), by improvising a ‘convention’ and defying people to respect the legitimacy of their sovereignty or denounce it.

      Another option might be to seek an independent legal adjudication on whether Scotland’s colonial subjugation actually does represent subjugation by literal definition, and use that legal benchmark as the trigger. Pursue such a judgement in International Law, and it will trump any domestic law regardless.

      It is possible, (though I’m guessing), a Constitutional intervention might aim it’s sights lower than delivering Independence, but still throw a monumental spanner into the works for Brexit even if we only secured the lesser benchmark of disputed UK Sovereignty. The practical possibility that Scotland’s forced Brexit might be unconstitutional wouldn’t / couldn’t be swept under the carpet, at least not by Europe, and though desperately late in the day, Scotland would have the Brexit kill-switch or Constitutional Backstop it should have had in 2016.

    48. solarflare says:

      Got an email which is much less dramatic and shorter. If I’m honest I don’t really understand it as I’m not that close to the whole hustings process and have no real personal feel if it is relevant in the context of the above, but I share it as it seems to have a similar theme.


      Dear (removed)

      On Wednesday night (14th) the National Secretary decided to cancel the hustings arrangements made by Cunninghame North Constituency Association. I do not in anyway dispute his right to do so.

      I am concerned that there then appears to have been an attempt to prevent this decision being communicated to constituency members. As a consequence, I have spent a large part of the last two days fielding individual enquiries from members who had already booked places on the hustings but had not received joining instructions.

      As far as I am aware the National Secretary has made no formal announcement about his decision, and no other hustings arrangements have been notified.

      Due to restrictions placed on branch officers use of internal SNP e-mail facilities during the present selection contest I have been unable to advise the membership of the situation until now.

      I apologise to those of you who are not Cunninghame North members, but I am using the only party mechanism available to me.

      Yours for Scotland

      Cunninghame North CA

    49. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lorna Campbell (1.52) –

      Hear, hear!


    50. kapelmeister says:

      Rev Stu @1:43

      This SNP apparatchik Chris Jones says he’s a Smoggie.

      From Middlesbrough to Mridulsbrough.

    51. Astonished says:

      An alphabet woman is standing as a candidate.

      Outrageous. I am raging.

    52. Saffron Robe says:

      I agree with Breeks’ really well written piece at 1:10 pm. If Holyrood is not going to defend Scotland then we have to circumvent them. The Declaration of Arbroath gives us that right.

    53. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Astonished says:
      19 October, 2020 at 2:00 pm
      An alphabet woman is standing as a candidate.

      Outrageous. I am raging.’

      And what’s the chances she will win…even if she doesn’t? Her slanderous services will be paid for.

    54. Daisy Walker says:

      I’m feeling a bit pissed off and fed up to be honest.

      If only auld Robert Peffers or Petra would come BTL here and provided re-assurance to me that all of the above is fine, really. And if you want to change the SNP you need to join it, its run by its members…. oh, wait.

    55. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “And what’s the chances she will win…even if she doesn’t? Her slanderous services will be paid for.”

      I wish I could tell you who it is, but I’ll be absolutely amazed if she doesn’t win.

    56. willie says:

      With the party email communication system disabled to local branch officers the NEC has attempted to shut down all democratic dialogue.

      But it is not just email communication that has been disabled. Land mail communication has also been suspended.

      The NEC is therefore now acting completely Ultra Vires and the rigged selection process has no standing.

      Challenge has already been made to the constitutionality of the party structures so utterly corrupted. But one thing is for certain, as people like Dr Angus McCleod will soon learn, they will not prevail, and their candidates will not prevail.

      There are many many more good decent democratic SNP members than there are in the rotten and corrupt coterie of control.

    57. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Just heard a VERY interesting rumour there from a friend. If it’s true, this most recent development may prove to have been the final straw for some senior SNP folk (i.e. WM based).

    58. Abalha says:

      In reply to Astonished at 130pm, as I posted at 111pm, below, this is Chris Jones, and same as the twitter acct posted after your query.

      ‘As for the NEC well what a shower, and the Chris Jones mentioned is the SNP’s ‘Data and Digital’ person, started December 2014, a new post? How much does he earn and what’s in his job description that means he emails branches about their selections?’

    59. Stan Broadwood says:

      This Chris Jones says he is sometimes called a “Smoggie”.

      From what I know, a Smoggie is a native of Middlesburgh.

      The term Smoggie came from the amount of smoke and smog in the air due to the type of industry in the area.,The North East of england has Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesburgh or,,, Magpies, Mackens and Smoggies.

      So she has another englishman in her ranks?

    60. Abalha says:

      In reply to Rev Stu at 208pm.

      I am hearing she may not win the selection, a few in the constituency are aware of who she is,and of the other candidates standing, one is a strong contender and well known locally.

    61. Dave Hansell says:

      “Even if there is a vaccine early next year,”

      If only there was a vaccine for the Oligarchy-Virus Pandemic which is currently rampant throughout all political parties spawned by Perfidious Albion?

      A rampant strain at every level it seems:

    62. Republicofscotland says:

      It looks like the take over of the SNP from within is almost complete, what can be down to stop it? and how would those on the inside against it go about implementing it.

      Unless there’s some sort of fight back within the party, I fear all is lost for many years, possibly for longer.

    63. robbo says:

      Karma maybe

      Any chance it could hit a Trump rally, that would be nice, no?

      Trump’s gonna flip when hears this wan. Corona fecking him now a fecking rocket sent up by thon scientists 50 odd year

    64. stonefree says:

      @ solarflare at 1:55 pm

      “Convener Cunninghame North CA”

      Who signed the email?
      Remember there is still the issue of Gibson going on,and they are the ones that lodged the complaint(s)

    65. Stan Broadwood says:

      Get your self over to Dundee for an INDY Rally on 31st Oct.

      Get the latest feedback from other as within the Movement.

      Just heard about this Rally today.

    66. Abalha says:

      Well worth reading Joanna Cherry’s thread calling out bloody Andrew Wilson and that Neil Mackay article yesterday.

    67. Liz says:

      Re the alphabet woman,as Albaha says, some on the constituency know who she is.

      I found out from a person in that area.
      They need to quietly alert voters to this untrustworthy person.

    68. Stan Broadwood says:



      The Rally for independence- Dundee will start at 1pm on Saturday 31st October 2020 in Dundee, location TBC. This Rally will be the fourth static-rally since July that AUOB has held. The success of these events is due to a careful strategy and planning in order that our protest and demonstration takes place safely. This is why we ask you to register via this website form so that the Rally site is organised with appropriate physical distancing throughout, and only to attend if you have your registration confirmed. Please note this is not a mass gathering, nor is it a social gathering- this is outdoor activity. Please register ??

      Participants are asked to please wear face coverings, practice distancing and keep good hand and respiratory hygiene. AUOB will have face coverings, antibacterial hand gel and gloves available. Please be at the location at 12.30pm to get into position. Please keep a close eye on this event page for all updates as we progress towards the rally date. The rally will feature several speakers. We look forward to seeing you on Saturday 31st October.






      #AUOB #AllUnderOneBanner #NowIsTheTime

    69. Cath says:

      I also commented that if a nominee had to be protected from the scrutiny of party members it did not augur well for his or her prospects as our candidate in the cut and thrust of the election

      This, precisely. The SNP leadership can stick their fingers in their ears and pretend that people on Twitter aren’t real people and are all bots when they find a policy isn’t popular, and block or silence them. They can hound and harass their own elected members who don’t support the policy or dare ask questions and try to have them kicked out the party, despite them being hugely popular and effective. If they have to go to the trouble of knobbling selection events so members are not allowed to ask questions about unpopular policies, or find out where potential candidates stand on them, they are totally screwed come election time. Because they cannot stop voters asking or voting on those issues, and they certainly can’t stop the media reporting on them.

      As well as being totally undemocratic and harmful to independence – which should be the key SNP cause – they are walling themselves into a position so damaging they can’t even allow their own members to talk about it. Utterly batshit crazy or deliberately undermining independence – take your pick.

    70. Liz says:

      Caeser???? Where did that come from?

    71. Stan Broadwood says:

      Can’t wait to attend this Rally in “Yes City” ,,,as it used to be known.

      Sturgeon will try to put a travel ban on travelling from Glasgow.

      Black Lives Matters Rallies are ok,,,but Indy Rallies will be a no no.

    72. Stan Broadwood says:

      Getting more difficult to even look at Sturgeon’s face during her “Daily Beefings”.

      A wicked wicked woman, up there with Thatcher.

    73. Abalha says:

      In reply to Liz at 240pm, is that question for me?
      Apologies if not, if it is, what are you referring to?

    74. Hatuey says:

      “a few known ‘hotheads’ (his words) in our local membership”

      They’re not even trying to hide their contempt for ordinary people any more.

      Give us your money and your votes and stfu…

    75. cirsium says:

      @Ian B, 2.17

      I do hope so.

    76. Thomas Potter says:

      Today we’ve got Queen Nicola closing down protests/gatherings (the main one for her is silencing AUOB)?

      Whilst not a peep about this NEC stitchup?

      Andrew Wilson bigging up Gordon Brown and Alisdair Darling and in the same article in the Herod,as destroying Independence?

      Boris No Deal Johnston creeping about with a huge smirk on his face?

      WTAF is going on?

      Is this whole lockdown designed as a deflection for ‘Getting Brexit Done’ and killing off Independence? 2 birds for the price of one?

      Meanwhile Nicola Sturgeon can’t possibly deal with ANYTHING but COVID unless it’s slavering to Boris about Brexit that England and Wales voted for?
      Covid that can’t be seen to be proven 1 way or the other?

      We’re really running out of time to get this sorted.

      We need to act now before it’s too late.

    77. willie says:

      So an alphabet woman is a candidate .

      That comes as no surprise. The charade of keeping them secret under pain of a custodial sentence may be restricting public comment on who they are but who they are is coming out.

      And it is coming out and in coming out it will politically destroy them and their backers and promoters.

      The tidal wave that will wash away the sins in gathering strength.

    78. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon was tasked six years ago with putting Scotland in our rightful place next to Senegal at the U.N. table.

      She hasn’t achieved that. Instead though, we’re nearly next to Somalia in democratic rights.

    79. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Stan Broadwood did point out something pertinent: BLM protests are fine, not to be cracked down on, cos the virus is cool, and Black Panther Sister Sturgeon would be there in solidarity if she could, buttttt…

    80. Liz says:

      No, it was rhetorical, I put your name and it came out as Caeser. Al baha

    81. Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde says:

      An alphabet woman standing won’t be difficult to identify.

    82. Patsy Millar says:

      I had registered for tonight’s hustings, then received an email this morning saying it had been changed till tomorrow. I’ll be very interested to see if my question asking each candidate his/her position on the GRA will get an airing. I know two of the candidates but the rest are unknown quantities but I don’t know any of their opinions on the above. I’m too old for this!
      P.S. still not getting notification of new posts.

    83. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Monsieur le Roi Grenouilleverteetprofonde, especially if some wag anonymously leafleted the area she was standing in. That would be terrible.

    84. Abalha says:

      In reply to Liz, duh, i should have worked that out!

      But interesting you’ve heard too, my guess it will be pretty widely known in the area.

      Will be interesting to see if she does fail to get selected.

    85. kapelmeister says:

      That’s going to be a favoured tactic of the Sturgeonistas.

      ‘Sorry, we’re suspending party democracy here because of hotheads. Watch out, hotheads about!’

      Alex Salmond isn’t a hothead. Quite the antithesis in fact. And he knows revenge is a dish best served cold.

      Sweet dreams Ms Sturgeon.

    86. Stan Broadwood says:


      Just watch out for a travel ban to the city of Dundee from anywhere in Scotland come in before 31st Oct.

      Evil Nicola will come up with something to stop the Rally.

    87. Abalha says:

      In reply to Patsy Millar at 306pm, presumably you’re in Dunbarton, if so my recommendation is Math Campbell-Sturgess.

      He founded ‘English for Yes’ and I’d quite a lot of dealings with him when I was at Yes Scotland in 2014.

      Very committed to independence and in my opinion, FWIW, one of the good guys.

    88. Abalha says:

      Acht, Dumbarton.

    89. Republicofscotland says:


      Aye Sturgeon doing her best to subdue AUOB, she didn’t attend the marches anyway, but did jail one of its leaders, who headed up a 100,000+ people rally in Glasgow.

      She fears the AUOB because she can’t control it.

    90. Stan Broadwood says:

      It’s not the Masonic Handshake that will get you all the way to the top in the SNP nowadays,,, it’s a transgender Dick shake that does it now.

      I think years ago the New SNP would have been classed as an “Alternative” Party.

      Not now, the Murrell’s are trying to make the majority out to be a scheming minority.

    91. shug says:

      There are a lot of lunatic unionists on here today.

      They are always easily identified by their hatred, venom and spite.

    92. iain MacGillivray says:

      An Alphabet woman is definitely standing, and will likely win..???

      Where is the justice in that, what about bringing the Party into disrepute, what about lying, cheating and trying to jail an innocent man. Not a party I can support.

    93. Effijy says:

      There is an obvious fix here.

      The NEC are unhappy with party members who want to ask
      Questions, who think they should have a voice and who has

      They have the wrong party members for a controlling dictatorship.

      The NEC needs to find another party where they could hope to get
      away with deception and corruption.
      The Tory Party seems a great fit for them, ideally based in England.

    94. Stan Broadwood says:

      Republic of Scotland 3.22pm

      “She fears the AUOB because she can’t control it”.

      Brilliant point…

    95. Ian says:

      With the NEC appearing to clearly be the heart of the problem with New SNP, as Joanna Cherry has outlined in chilling detail in today’s National, and for their equally clear lack of commitment to their supposed main reason for being – independence, maybe a challenge to the current leadership in terms of a vote of no confidence would be one way to go, at least exposing more widely what the NEC are doing within the current SNP leadership.

      I assume that the NEC previously was markedly different from how it is now and is now not something that could in any way be described as fair and democratic. How many people wouldn’t give the SNP their support if they knew how unrepresentative it’s leadership and NEC had become. Some way of clearing out New SNP needs to be made because the current are too dangerous to be allowed to continue as they now are.

      Joanna Cherry –

      “It is already in the public domain that this time last year when I was on the verge of winning the prorogation case in the Supreme Court, members of the NEC attempted to have me deselected as an MP, in anticipation of the snap General Election, despite my record and the fact I had already passed vetting. This attempt took place at a meeting which I, as a member of the NEC, was prevented from attending. It was this sort of behaviour that led me not to seek re-election to the NEC at last year’s conference”.

    96. Republicofscotland says:

      The FCO funding Glasgow and Clyde Rape Crisis Centre sending staff all over the world…hmmm.

    97. James Che. says:

      Then it’s up to us, the sovereign people of Scotland.

    98. susanXX says:

      The current SNP must be destroyed. They are not just authoritarian, they are totalitarian. Cast them out root and branch. I so want independence but I can’t vote for such slimy reality deniers.

    99. shug says:

      The BBC regularly carries stories of nasty Sturgeon politicising the COVID crisis.

      Strangely every time I check their site I find the COVID updates on the politics page of their web site. Who is making it political then?

      It is odd that a public service broadcaster can’t present a public health emergency page providing the key facts on how this virus is developing in each part of the country and the rule everyone must follow.

      They always muddy the waters with “people stories” reporting how this test did not comeback quick how this doctor did not phone me and every conceivable piece of rubbish to detract from the key message – stop or minimize your contact with others.

      The BBC is making this epidemic worse and I now suspect deliberately.

      Interestingly I have never seen the BBC provide an analysis of the PPE or other contracts where unknown companies have been provided with sheds loads of public money, and nothing has been delivered. The government appears to be running a ‘cash for cronies fund’ and the BBC is looking in the other direction.

      The BBC really a waste of space.

    100. Willie says:

      Can we ask that any Wingers in possession of information relating to the Dumbarton Constituency please make that information available.

      The constituency area is at present under communication lockdown with constituency meeting suspended and communications in lockdown.

      It would also be helpful if information could be provided about one Chris Jones who works in party HQ, who apparently reports to the National Secretary and Peter Murrell and who allegedly through his data management skills has connection with Cambridge Analytica.

    101. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Republicofscotland: like a spoiled, spiteful, angry child denying any point of view but hers, she pretends no knowledge of the event. Which you could almost believe, given her non-attendance at them. Christ, what a puerile fool! “Independence? Never heard of it.”

    102. stonefree says:

      I suppose the Dumbarton CA could form a Real SNP Party and stand against the NEC SNP for the seat,
      The question of the support they would have would be down to what they believe they have
      There is the question of forming the party or in the alternative of a selected individual standing as an independent.
      It is possible,
      If other CA did the same , then the problem would become the NECs
      The NEC can’t service their selected candidate
      I have overly simplified the idea, the concept is viable
      It tells the NEC don’t shit on the members
      And should other join in,
      Well who knows

    103. Allium says:

      @Hatuey 2.50

      Yes, that was particularly low – a nasty bit of classism from the self-loathing clique.

    104. stonefree says:

      @ susanXX at 3:45 pm

      Aye, Totally agree

    105. shug says:

      BBC Headline UK’s Anglican Churches have warned the government that its new Brexit bill could set a “disastrous precedent”.
      The Internal Market Bill could damage the relationship between the UK’s four nations, say the archbishops of York and Canterbury and the heads of the Church in Scotland, Wales and Ireland.
      And where is the Church of Scotland. Tugging a forelock, I suspect.

    106. Oneliner says:

      An article in today’s National from Derek Stewart MacPherson of Action for Independence.

      He is scathing of the ‘untruths’ and misinformation put forward by Collette Walker of ISP regarding his party.

      Here we go, here we go, here we go.

    107. Abalha says:

      In reply to Willie at 353pm, as I posted at 11pm the Dumbarton story is a little more complex that just NEC bad.

      The CA has a favourite candidate Cllr Karen Caraghan and they took the decision to not allow open live online hustings which they proposed to replace with one to one interviews with set questions that would then be sent round members, so no chance for members to get a sense of the candidates as one interacting with each and responding in live time, as it were.

      You also have the Caroline McAllister not passing vetting story. Now according to Iain Lawson’s blog yesterday one of the Cllr candidates, there are two, standing was on her selection panel.

      Yes that was an NEC panel but it appears the CA did nothing to challenge the decision.

      There’s no doubt as well that head of the CA Graeme McCormick sent out the above expressly to get everyone on their side, in the hope probably it helps their chosen candidate.

      Honestly from what I’ve researched West Dunbartonshire reads like bloody Labour run Dundee City Council in the bad old days. For example Cllr Karen Caraghan stepped into her Dad’s seat when he retired. Interestingly he was involved in SPUC Scotland for years, including when he was an SNP Cllr, I appreciate that won’t bother everyone but it does me.

      So from where I sit there are faults on both sides here the CA and the NEC.

      Hope that helps.

    108. Stéphane Séchaud says:

      There should be a litmus test for all SNP members, candidates, and office bearers. And it should be that they publicly acknowledge and state on the record that they support and uphold the right to self determination that the people of Scotland are entitled to regardless of the approval of any other nation. How it has come to be that there is SNP councillors openly stating on social media that there is “no road to independence without the approval of Westminster” is a scandal.

    109. Helen Yates says:

      I can’t, I just won’t vote for the SNP at the May elections, as I find them under this FM to be as corrupt as ANY UNIONIST party we have ever had in Government.

      This current administration is worse than any unionist govt we’ve ever had, they didn’t pretend to be on our side. I won’t vote for them either, it’s obvious now we need a new Indy party, this one is past saving.

    110. Nell G says:

      Nicola’s Unionist takeover is well and truly underway. In 2 months time we are fecked. A call to Alex – now is the time to nail this ("Tractor" - Ed).

    111. Beaker says:

      @Republicofscotland says:
      19 October, 2020 at 3:22 pm
      “Aye Sturgeon doing her best to subdue AUOB, she didn’t attend the marches anyway, but did jail one of its leaders, who headed up a 100,000+ people rally in Glasgow.”

      How many times do people need to be told that he got himself jailed? Notwithstanding people think it is unfair, that does not mean people are above the law.

      If people aren’t happy with the council, then stand against them at the next elections. Much easier to win, especially as local issues can be used to gain support. Only takes a few seats to neuter the council.

    112. CameronB Brodie says:

      Woke theory and practice was designed to counter neo-liberalism and enable resistance to the radical right. The WOKE perspective seeks to empower natal women, ethnic minorities, and others politically marginalised through the combination of their social disadvantages. So WOKE theory and practice is capable of supporting public health and democracy.

      The NEC is, in fact, intensely hostile towards WOKE theory and practice, as they seek to force Scotland to reject medical philosophy, bio-ethics, phenomenology, Natural law and stuff. So the NEC have simply turned into a power-base for science denying, misogynistic, and parochially minded authoritarians, who’s approach to politics ultimately leads to a state of totalitarianism.

    113. Stan Broadwood says:

      This parachuting in of candidates has been happening for years.

      The Labour Party have been doing it all over the UK.

      Check out the accents at Westminster of Labour MPs who are in english seats.

      They rewarded their Scottish shop stewards and Convenors from all over Scotland by giving them english seats,,,then onto the Lords.

      The SNP are only continuing the corrupt process.

      The thing that annoys us is that we thought we were better than them, we thought we were up there and they were down there.

      We have had a shock to our system and as every day passes more bad news enters our heads.

      We are just starting to fight back, and the trick is not to let up. We have to be relentless in our persuit of winning our Movement back.

      The Rev has led the way and it is up to us to spread the word far and wide about the corruption within the SNP.

      That is why the Rally in Dundee is an ideal opportunity to meet fellow foot soldiers and bounce ideas off each other as to the best way to bring down Sturgeon and her whole stinking mob

    114. Col.Blimp IV says:

      shug says: at 3:25 pm

      “There are a lot of lunatic unionists on here today”

      Shug to you think that if you closed your eyes and wished really hard that you were a woman … That you would be a woman when you opened your eyes.

      And do you think that the brand new birth certificate you could get from the Scottish Government stating that you are indeed a woman … would be more accurate and reliable evidence of your sexual status, than the evidence of your own or anybody else’s eyes ?

      LUNATICS – are people who are self-deluded enough to believe such nonsense.

      UNIONISTS – are people who are deluded but exponentially less so than the above.

      COWARDS – are people who submit to this new received “truth” out of party loyalty or fear of being denounced as a Transphobe.

      CHARLATANS – are people who promote this pseudo-science.

      TRAITORS – are…Well make your own mind up about who the ("Tractor" - Ed)s are.

      If I have got any of that wrong Shug, by all means correct me.

    115. WT says:

      If, after winning the election, the SNP leadership do not drive independence forward by a referendum or some other route then it is not incumbent upon people like Joanna Cherry to challenge for the leadership? With the draft bill for independence ( being put forward then it would be easy to push forward with a new leader some time after the election if it becomes necessary. The issue of the NEC can be dealt with in November and if any of the questionable candidates are elected then their days will be numbered forthwith. If there has been any impropriety then this too will allow a new leadership to cleanse the party of any entryists. Generally a cabal is a small unit therefor easy to remove. If there is no mechanism for this presently, one can be created. There is no reason to derail independence by abstention or such other. Calling the bluff of the present leadership (if the party is not sincere) is surely the best way to drive the movement forward. Coups can be overturned. At the same time as the coup is being dealt with we can press on with the job at hand. To split or reduce the number of votes in this election is surely the WRONG way to progress independence.

    116. Stan Broadwood says:



      Just curious.

      Because i don’t, I know it is an english establishment propaganda media outlet.

      They hate two things, one is Russia and the other is anything relating to Scottish Independence.

      Why don’t you organise a protest for outside Pacific Quay and I’ll even help you kick the doors in, drag Jackie Burd outside and throw her in the Clyde.

      See you there Shuggie Boy.

    117. James Che. says:

      In 2017 I posted that I had been to a snp leaflets campaign where I live and was speaking to two snp members that believed that the Scottish parliament should be sovereign.
      I argued with them both that the Scottish people should always maintain their sovereignty not the parliament.
      Two against one,
      What I did learn however is that one was ex- labour, and she would go back to them in a flash if she could, the other one who sat in the Scottish parliament, used to see him in fm question time broadcasts, he was well in with the local tories, spoke and acted like a putter glove,
      I posted about infiltration of the snp. Here, and on just about every other Scottish blog at that time, and a few times since,
      This eye opener for the independence movement has been a long time in coming.
      We need to convene our own sovereign people, for no political party can trusted, not to be infiltrated or spiral off in the wrong direction to fit in with their own narratives,
      When countrymen gain a opportunity speak with their countrymen, then a balance of natural order is obtained, and society can live in peace.

    118. maxxmacc says:

      Back almost 30 years ago i had dealings with NS at student politics level.

      Back then she never used the ‘I’ word once.

      Back then she used any chance to climb the party ladder and immediately set about destroying any organisation or person whom she saw as a threat, even if they were promoting independence.

      I wouldn’t say she’s MI5, just a sociopath who saw a chance to use a weak political party system to get power for herself. She knew that trying to climb the ladder in the Labour, Liberals, or Tories would be much harder.

      Oh and for the record, the press used to call her ‘Seaweed’ when she first entered Holyrood as ‘not even the tide would take her out’. It wasn’t a nice slur to use against her but it clearly pushed her into marrying, ahem, Mr. Murrell who likes nothing more than a nice coffee. Other revelations are due to come out about this but for fear of libel I shall leave this to the hacks who seemingly have plenty of ammunition, but won’t currently use it.

    119. shug says:

      Col.Blimp IV says @4:31
      I have a memory a few years of a church in Aberdeen electing a gay minister and I recall ministers around the central belt gnashing their teeth and writing to the herald. The end of the world they cried, nobody will be safe.
      They totally missed the point that a collection of people in Aberdeen interviewed the chap and found him to be a great minister. I hasten to add including a bunch of women’s guilders, elderly ladies who have seen life, children doing well, not so well and dying. People not known for being left wing and who have seen life.
      My position is if he is good enough for them it is nobody else’s busines and not some bible thumping hot head anywhere else.
      Now I have never heard of this Mridul person, but from the Revs article seems to have been in position for some time. Have there been complaints, has a good job been done, have women complained?? If the answer ifs no, what does that say.
      If Mridul has lied or been dishonest in his/her application then fine follow the process.
      People in the west have very defined views on gender because of Christianity. The further east you go the fluidity of gender and societal position is less defined. The lady boys of Bangkok being a good example.
      There are bigger issues we need to address. Conspiracy to pervert the course of justice is one and cash for cronies is another.

    120. Stan Broadwood says:

      maxxmacc 5.05pm

      Max,,, you tease that you are. LoL

      C’mon, spill the beans, we are up to our eye balls in half stories,,, can’t take any more.

    121. Colin Alexander says:

      The SNP adopted British Imperial devolution over Scottish sovereignty with the blessing of Alex Salmond and the party membership. What we see now is the result of that decision from 20 years ago which has been followed ever since, even long before Sturgeon came to power.

      Now, devolution colonial power is all that matters to the SNP.

      I think we should let the New SNP die. Like Red Tory New Labour before them in Scotland.

      We need a single-issue party: a party whose only purpose is the restoration of Scotland’s national sovereignty.

    122. Iain Lawson says:

      My info it might be more than one standing. I have been tipped off to look for an all women short list. No constituency yet.

    123. Robert Graham says:

      I have just read a post on here that pushes the line of acceptable comment , I refer to Craig Murray’s recent Twitter spat with the attached veiled warning from the Lord Advocate , This site only exists because The Rev keeps a eye on the comments posted please don’t make the job harder by pushing dubious comments that might attract attention , Not my blog as has been said before but if you want to use it try and be a little respectful we are all guests here , Thanks .

    124. Abalha says:

      In reply to Iain Lawson at 514pm, surely the constituency lists are closed now?

    125. Alf Baird says:

      We perhaps still need to learn from brexit.

      Like the SNP and independence, neither the Tories nor Labour were keen to deliver brexit, so the Brexit party was established and forced the issue. If the Tories had not changed tack then the Brexit Party would have strengthened even further and pushed the Tories as well as Labour aside.

      A similar single-issue ‘Independence’ party is arguably what Scotland needs if independence is ever to be secured. Such a party only needs one aim and one message – ‘lets get independence done’! Either it pushes the SNP towards independence or it pushes the SNP aside.

      A key question is, who is Scotland’s ‘Nigel Farage’? The real independence movement needs a leader.

    126. Jim Lynch says:

      I note you say you have no strong feelings about two prospective candidates.

      One of them Toni Guigliano, coveted Edinburgh Western which had an SNP MSP , Colin Keir. The campaign was very dirty, and a cabal in the Constituency ganged up against Mr Keir; he lost the nomination and his reputation was trashed. The items used in the trashing were latched on by the Liberals, and they took the seat which had the largest SNP majority in Edinburgh. The cabal also ran Mr Giugliano in the Westminster seat, and he lost that, so that was Mr Guigliano never holding an SNP seat but losing two.

    127. Beaker says:


      John Leslie cleared of all charges. But as with Alex Salmond, Twitter is now filling up with bullshit.

      About time these people were brought to task and asked to explain in a court of law the basis of their accusations and comments.

    128. Abalha says:

      In reply to Jim Lynch at 535pm , very well said.
      Colin would have held that seat and then Toni G bloody well lost to Christine Jardine when Michelle Thomson was not allowed to stand for the SNP having done nothing wrong.

      He actually was pretty horrid about Michelle during his 2017 WM campaign too, all round tosser, frankly.

    129. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’d certainly agree the practice of Christianity is more tribal and partisan the further west you travel in Scotland, but patriarchal misogyny and sexism are not solely the legacy of Christian theology. They’re the social glue that has traditionally provided cohesion in pre-secular cultures.

      Btw, from my post-colonial (feminist) perspective as a bit of a woke bloke, Brexit transforms the British model of constitutional democracy from being a legal contract between equal partners, into an articulation of racist, misogynistic, and authoritarian cultural patriarchy shaped through English Torydum, which is the practice of English nationalism. ;(

      Patriarchal violence
      – an attack on human security

      A broad survey of measures to combat patriarchal
      violence and oppression, particularly acts committed
      in the name of honour directed at women,
      homosexuals, bisexuals and transgender persons—an-attack-on-human-security

    130. Col.Blimp IV says:


      I usually avoid reading celeb guff. I was surprised and alarmed to discover recently that he had been cleared of all the charges brought against him 15/20 years ago. I had been sure that he was a convicted serial sex fiend.

      I’m sure I’m not the only one who was similarly gas-lighted.

    131. Skip_NC says:

      And there’s the problem, Col Blimp. The “sensational” story gets out there but the actual truth doesn’t. I wonder how many people in Scotland think Alex Salmond is in jail?

      Twenty-three minutes sounds awfully and mercifully quick for an acquittal, but then I am no lawyer.

    132. Lothianlad says:

      For vwhat it’s worth ….. the NEC are very happy with the current set up in Midlothian.

    133. Ian McCubbin says:

      The various Yes groups of all sorts need to come up with a plan to have an alternative to SNP.
      How, what action is already starting.
      But don’t let the hierarchy of SNP turn you to gradualist and gender cause.

    134. twathater says:

      I have to ENTHUSIASTICALLY agree with breeks and others upthread , this cannot now be FIXED by SNP members,this corruption of democracy and electoral freedom NOW has to be fixed by ALL independence supporters , the NS acolytes and apologists are ALLOWING this to continue and expand by their complicity , acceptance and adherence to the great ones dictat

      When this debacle is PUNTED and expanded by the great bbc,stv and ALL the MSM including the SIU the SNP vote will go through the floor and we won’t have to worry about indy

      To ALL who deny this view , at the last exposure the SNP membership was BOASTED at 125,000 the latest figures (unknown) possibly 100,000, will this win the SNP Governance

      When the MSM go to town on the GRA and HCB and START exposing the vile TWEETS of the wokeratie against NORMAL womenfolk and children, and point out their support and affinity with the SNP and queen nicola,and how DADDY SMYTH has a harem of uber woke (FRIENDS), DOES ANYONE seriously think that NORMAL everyday working people who are trying to keep their families alive and who are NOT INDY ANORAKS will VOTE for this clusterfuck of lunatics

    135. bipod says:

      It has been more than a week now since nicolas lockdown in all but name and there is still no real sign that the curve has been “crushed” by her restrictions. I also read today that nicola is yet again planning on changing the restrictions this week, to be published on friday. That is the third week in a row that the restrictions have been changed here.

      I wonder when it will click with the Scottish public that the reason why there are so many restrictions, that seem to be constantly changing, is because the measures are largely useless. They have either had a very minimal effect or no effect at all. Until people realise this virus is a significant force of nature, that won’t be contained by shabby pieces of plastic or 10pm curfews we are just going to keep getting more of the same.

    136. Lothianlad says:

      The British secret service tried to destroy the SNP from within.

      First they organised the set up of Alex Salmond. Then, once he was unexpectedly acquitted, they started with their plan B.
      Infiltrate and influence the strategy of the SNP.

      In this they have been very successful. With N S totally under their control, they have set out to cause mayhem within the independence movement.

      Unfortunately for them, they cant own the Independence movement!
      The movement is not the SNP!

      The enemies of Independence are hard at work within the SNP SG.

      Civil servants, special advisors, policy formulates, the nature denying inner circle etc etc . … NS is a nasty piece of work who is controlled by her brit nat handlers.

      With independence now within touching distance, the brit nets have evoked project smear!!!!

      This will be unleashed when it suits them best.

      How do you recognise these people hiding in plain sight? Several ways, but, its
      Simple, if the are coy about independence, your on to something.

    137. Hatuey says:

      It’s all very one-sided on here…

      What Nicola wants to do, and it’s at the heart of everything, including GRA, is cement in place through legislation the sort of laws and standards that you’d expect to see if we were already independent.

      If you take a sort of teleogical view of history and progress, more specifically in terms of civil and human rights, we can see that we are heading in a certain direction, towards a more civilised society.

      We started with extending suffrage to men, then women, children, etc., then ethnic minorities, and building on those we have sought to equalise opportunity in terms of pay, jobs available, gender divisions of labour, etc.

      And on parallel tracks we have liberalised legislation on things like homosexuality so that you have all these parallel strands heading towards one point of light in the future.

      GRA is a logical next step in that civilising mission. It’s about breaking down barriers that are based on discrimination. Why should we discriminate, for example, against people who suffer from gender dysphoria but not discriminate against say certain religious groups?

    138. Col.Blimp IV says:


      I’m not a Christian but I Know that their God has been around a long time is extremely intolerant, always right and hates homosexuals to the point of demanding of his followers that they stone them to death … I would fear for the immortal souls of those old ladies if I thought that they had one.

      As for Thai Ladyboys, I thought the practice was a career option, largely linked to entertaining the tourists and of course the sex industry and they are what they are and don’t pretend to be anything else, as opposed to the crop we have here who have been hijacked by sinister control-freaks who are also trying to hijack the SNP, the Scottish Government and demand that we play along with their fantasy or else.

      I had no problem when genuine transformer Sandra MacRae became an SNP candidate. He was an SNP person when he was a man and an SNP person when she was a woman i.e. one of us.

    139. crazycat says:

      @ Hatuey at 6.54

      The GRA as proposed goes way beyond ending “discrimination” against the gender dysphoric (who already have all the same human rights as everyone else, and no-one is suggesting removing any of those rights from them) to – indeed, well past – the point where that expansion of entitlements negatively affects others (in this case, women and girls).

      We do discriminate against some religious practices, where they too infringe the rights of others.

    140. CameronB Brodie says:

      If bipod had the slighted clue about the legally intertwined processes of science and government, he would not be trying to undermine our respect for public health ethics. I’m not defending the way the crisis has been handled, but we need to make a stand in defense of our “Right to Health”, before we loose any hope of ever accessing it. So it would help if the NEC stopped denying medical philosophy and biological science.

      The radical right are simply a bit bio-neurologically disabled in their empathic capacities, and will not respect your biological integrity, a.k.a. your health (see Brexit).

    141. tartandiaspora says:

      Stan Broadwood says:

      Evil Nicola ……. mmmmwwwwwwaaaaaahhhhuuuuhhhhh.

      that’ll be yer guisin’ outfit sorted then…

    142. Stan Broadwood says:

      tartandiaspora 7.12pm

      AKA Tantanpigsty

      Calling me out will not save Scotland from being overrun by women with Dicks.

      You need to love Nicola less and start thinking about how can we get her and her man out of Bute House Tartan.

      You Sturgeon loyalists are as much to blame for the current problem as Sturgeon herself is.

    143. Stan Broadwood says:

      I don’t know how people like the Tartan guy can’t see what we see is happening within the NEC.

    144. Hatuey says:

      Crazy at:

      “ The GRA as proposed goes way beyond ending “discrimination” against the gender dysphoric to […] the point where that expansion of entitlements negatively affects others (in this case, women and girls).”

      Okay, great. But you don’t say how?

      Also, if you look at the history of women in the workplace in the early 70s, people said enhancing women’s rights then discriminated against the working man. The Unions played a shameful part in that and there was lots of talk about bread winners and family tradition, etc.

      Conceptually, it’s hard to see how it’s possible to elevate the rights of any particular group without negatively impacting the existing rights and privileges of others.

      You can even apply that to civil rights in the US and debates surrounding the role of slaves. Actually, many of the abolitionists wanted to end slavery so that they could send Africans back to Africa because they supposedly undercut the price of white labour.

      If you read say John Locke and other democratic theorists, it’s a well established principle that laws and rights almost always involve the sacrifice of freedoms for some, if not all, and that’s basically the social contract, for the greater good, etc.

    145. cynicalHighlander says:

      @Hatuey says:

      GRA is a logical next step in that civilising mission. It’s about breaking down barriers that are based on discrimination.

      Utter bollocks. If you think disenfranchising women making them second class citizens is progress you haven’t a clue about what is being proposed.

    146. Stan Broadwood says:

      This is another example of the Sturgeon blind faithful.

      This is a post by the guy “robbo” earlier on up thread.

      He posted some utter crap about Donald Trump. Not one person was talking about Donald Trump except robbo.

      This was posted to try and deviate attention away from the core topic today of highlighting the corruption within the NEC.

      Thankfully it didn’t work, but it shows how loyal these numb nuts are to Sturgeon.

      And it shows us how hard it will be to remove her with pricks like robbo and Tartan doing their damnedest to save Sturgeon.

      They are the fuckin Trolls of Wings now, not any diddy Unionists.

      robbo says:
      19 October, 2020 at 2:30 pm

      “Karma maybe

      Any chance it could hit a Trump rally, that would be nice, no?

      Trump’s gonna flip when hears this wan. Corona fecking him now a fecking rocket sent up by thon scientists 50 odd year”

    147. This is classic `Entryism`,

      a small group of mysoginists joining SNP and using the party system to gain control with the sole purpose of granting men free access to woman only spaces,

      this is not only happening in Scotland these mysoginist entryist parasites have infiltrated a host of countries worldwide,

      well coordinated and funded using a franchise pattern/strategy,different countries same model,

      a lot of woke woman don`t realise they are being used by men to further their goals,

      they complain about `patriarchy` yet ultimately these deluded woke woman are propping it up and destroying the 100s of years of struggle that brave woman fought for to get equality.

    148. Col.Blimp IV says:


      All good and well until your last paragraph, “gender dysphoria” is a thing, getting surgery to remedy it is an even bigger thing.

      Tansphobia is that real? – I don’t think so – not unless you intend assigning a moniker to every conceivable variance from narrow minded norms, that can result in name calling, from ploocky faces to cheap trainers all of which can result in exclusion and physiological pain.

      Causing or encouraging physical or psychological pain to anyone or discriminating against their demographic is wrong, should be discouraged and punished when appropriate. – same rule for all is the only way to go.

      Forcing people to play a long with and pretend that someone else’s fantasy is real on pain of imprisonment and/or eternal banishment from society until you recant, is a crime against humanity.

      How many Germans do you think actually believed that “The Jews” were responsible for the loss of WW1 and the subsequent economic morass that the countries economy was in? – A damn sight fewer than the number who were too afraid say that the idea was bullshit, once the Nazi’s took control.(with about 33% of the vote).

    149. Stan Broadwood says:

      Guys like robbo, Tartanpigsty, Famous15 really don’t like the way I describe their hero.

      That is why they try to single me out.

      But by turning their attention to me, they are letting the real villan get away with murder.

      These guys are stuck in a time warp , in those heady days when Sturgeon had us all fooled.

      But for most, we have seen the light.

      For a loyal faithful, they are living in the past and turning a blind eye to the abuse that is going on deep within the SNP.

      And I don’t know what it will take to awaken them from their slumber.

      Or maybe that is what floats their boat.

      Maybe women with Dicks does it for them.

      I don’t know, you need to ask them yourselves.

    150. mrbfaethedee says:

      Re: RevStu at 13.14pm
      Yeah, I also thought Chris Jones will likely be

      I remember the self-righteous tone-policing from the indyref.

      If so – it’s a reminder how long ago this all actually began.
      Kate Higgins becoming a SPAD etc… It was all just ominously disappointing at the time. Now look where we are.

    151. MorvenM says:

      @ crazycat at 7.03 pm

      Well said.

    152. crazycat says:

      @ Hatuey at 7.30

      Please stop being so disingenuous. This site and others have been discussing the impact on women’s rights for months.

      I do not believe you are unaware of this, nor of the details of that impact.

    153. Tom says:

      When someone like this, at the heart of Scottish politics, but not ‘of’ it, comments like this, even those most loyal to Sturgeon must surely concede something is definitely ‘up’. So here’s Mandy Rhodes, editor of Holyrood magazine:,shifting-blame?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Holyrood%20Morning%20Roundup%2019%20October&utm_content=Holyrood%20Morning%20Roundup%2019%20October+CID_c3207c5ab76b9be5a5c6c0a25a38b1d8&utm_source=Email%20newsletters&utm_term=Shifting%20blame

    154. Tartanpigsy says:

      It’s Tartan Pigsy to you Stanley Odbod.
      You are still a Britnat Troll, I’d put my house on it.
      It suits you that we are seeing the truth about Sturgeon but
      I’m sure you’d have preferred it all to come out after new year closer to the election. Everyone knows who you work forg

    155. ben madigan says:

      @ bipod who said:
      “It has been more than a week now since nicolas lockdown in all but name and there is still no real sign that the curve has been “crushed” by her restrictions. I also read today that nicola is yet again planning on changing the restrictions this week, to be published on friday”.

      I heard doctors suggesting “reversing” the gradual open-up procedure that was used after the spring lockdown. That is, if Set A restrictions don’t work after a certain time, add Set B restrictions. Continue topping up at intervals until infected figures start to plateau/drop.

      This may be the FM’s strategy

    156. Republicofscotland says:

      Beaker @4.14pm.

      I’m under the impression the police were fine with the start time and that it was GCC/SNP councillors that compelled the police to act against the organiser.

    157. JSC says:

      Identity politics and nepotism does not lead to high quality candidates. The 2015 WM intake, it must be said on reflection, did not have a full quota of quality individuals, due to a large number simply making up the numbers that weren’t expected to win. Cases in point being Ferrier, McGarry, and Mhairi Black. A competence level pegged at “mid-tier councillor” (at best) doesn’t put you at a level where you can hold your own in the rough and tumble at Westminster or even Holyrood (whereas someone as good as Cherry has shown she could do both comfortably). This brings me on to the 2021 MSP folk. In a strange Indy variation of affirmative action, we are seeing people prioritised based on gender/race, and/or LGBT status, rather than any meaningful drive for the core purpose of the SNP. Basically, as outlined by the Rev many times, you’ll be electing people this time whose eye just isn’t off the Indy ball, they’re on a different pitch playing a different game, yet weakening the core aims for everyone

    158. Saffron Robe says:

      What politicians do – all of them – is present a simulacrum of the truth, an illusion of the truth if you like. The only way that we can assess the simulacrum against the actual truth is by mapping the simulacrum against reality. The closer the simulacrum is to reality, the closer it is to the truth.

      An example would be in a court of (old Scots) law. Is the simulacrum of truth provided by either party proven or not proven against the factual evidence? The evidence proves which simulacrum accords with reality, and therefore which is the more truthful.

      What this tells us is that the simulacrum of truth presented by Nicola Sturgeon is as far removed from the actual truth as a lunatic is from reality.

    159. Big Jock says:

      If the SNP think that Scotland can still be part of the union in 2025. Then they have already given up.

      5 years post Brexit, will be a slow painfull death of our nation. It’s like we are in the enemies penalty box,and our striker passes the ball back to our goalie.

    160. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      O/T: John Pilger doc aboot how the NHS is being raped by shysters, profiteers, and lunatics with no regard for human life:

      My own piece on the horrors of health care in America, if we continue down this horrendous road:

    161. PhilM says:

      It looks like a giant colostomy bag full of chancers have slithered their way towards Edinburgh looking to get an easy ride on the nightsoil express. We can all smell the shite…
      I’m not sure we should want to be governed by Imperial Vienna, so my modest proposal is to sell the Scottish Parliament to Flamingoland, move the civil service to Airdrie-Coatbridge and move the political class to the Kabul of the North where a fine building already exists that could be retrofitted to house our legislature.
      Anyone who disagrees with this is a clearly a dewy-eyed teleologist who doesn’t understand that we in Scotland are moving to a future one point of shite.

    162. Mac says:

      There is a very immediate solution to all of this.

      We just take one election cycle off as SNP voters i.e. both Scottish and UK.

      That is all it takes to put all of these utter wankers out on their arse. (We can be more selective than ‘all’.)

      Then we start again with new candidates minus Sturgeon, Murrell and all the other NEC wokeratti.

      I see this as politically sinking the SNP ship in the shallows for a while to drown out the rats and kill all the parasites.

      Does anyone think it will matter a fuck at this point. If it costs us five years but kills these wankers stone dead it will be the bargain of the century.

      The Sturgeonistas might artificially dominate the upper tiers of the SNP but the membership and voter tiers of the SNP support are very much not dominated by them, quite the opposite. The voters are very much predominantly of a pre2014 SNP mindset than the wokeratti post2014 SNP, much!

      All you have to do is not vote.

      So let’s just stay in bed, not turn up, and absolutely wipe these cunts out.

      (We need a good guy / wank MP & MSP list ASAP. Not easy I know.)

    163. Beaker says:

      Flu vaccinations for staff at NHS Ayrshire & Arran have been suspended, apparently due to a shortage. No other health board is affected.

      More awkward questions at tomorrow’s briefing, if they are allowed.

    164. Dumbarton Winger says:

      I’m a Dumbarton member, and have some info on this.
      What Abalha said is pretty much on the money.

      This is entire thing is Graeme McCormick, the CA Convener, trying to make sure his pals daughter, Karen Conaghan, gets selection. Then spitting the dummy when the NEC folk said “No, you can’t have a re-recorded interview instead of hustings, it needs to be live”.

      Folk in my branch are livid, we were asked about this and said no, it needs to be live.

      Graeme overruled them and our delegate to the CA does what they’re told.

      He was gonna have a recorded interview with each candidate where HE controls which questions are asked, HE is the only guarantee that it isn’t getting edited, and HE is the only guarantee that Karen doesn’t get 15 takes and questions tailored to her.

      The guy from headquarters said “You can’t do that, you’re gonna have to make it live at least” and Graeme says no, spits the dummy and so they’ve made a neutral hustings with a genuinely neutral moderator who NOBODY will question.


      Graeme sends out that mail anyway lying about a whole load of stuff. The stuff about GRA is shite, nothing to do with that cos most of the candidate apart from that Toni guy who isn’t winning anything are all on the same page over GRA.

      It’s all about Grame picking a candidate who he can control. Last time it was Gail Robertson who wasn’t even in the fucking country during selection, she fucked off to Portugal for 2 weeks. Gail’s the daughter of Iain Robertson, who’s one of the 3 amigos of Dumbarton – along with (drumroll please)….Karen’s dad.

      So when the headquarters guy says no, you have to do it properly, now Graeme’s blaming the “BIG BAD NEC picking on poor little Karen…got to vote for her or the NEC will pick someone” etc it’s complete and total bullshit.
      Look up Karen on twitter or Facebook.

      She has not put up a SINGLE policy idea. Not a SINGLE “here’s why I want to be MSP”. All she has [put up is endorsement’s from her crowd in Dumbarton. Iain, Gail, the local Revered of the Church the ones that aren’t catholic like her go to…

      It IS a conspiracy. But it’s not the NEC who are conspiring here.

      Don’t get me wrong, there’s some right fucking muppets in the NEC. But they’re not to blame at all here. They actually di the right thing for once.

    165. Abalha says:

      Just spotted this from young Michael Gray’s media outfit ‘Skotia’, an interview with Dumbarton candidate Math Campbell-Sturgess. He’d get my vote.

    166. Beaker says:

      @Mac says:
      19 October, 2020 at 8:55 pm
      “There is a very immediate solution to all of this.
      We just take one election cycle off as SNP voters i.e. both Scottish and UK.”

      Nice idea. As a suggestion, replace the SNP as party of choice by selecting one of the minor / independent candidates if you spot one on the ballot paper.

      Monster Raving Loony or Natural Law parties would be good. Politicians who admit to being nutters or convinced they can fly (without chemical assistance) would be great 🙂

    167. crisiscult says:

      Worst case scenario, and the SNP continue on their current path, here are a couple of questions (no doubt ridiculously naive but just thought I’d ask).

      When is the latest you could register to stand in the May elections?
      How much would you need per seat?
      Could the plebiscite platform/manifesto still be used to any effect AGAINST the SNP and everyone else i.e. a vote for the X party is a vote to begin negotiations for independence?

      You’d still need high profile names for such a ‘party’ though to get any exposure and coverage.

    168. Andy Ellis says:


      I really hoped it would work out this way, but I’ve kind of lost hope this’ll happen. It kinda sucks. I’d love to to be eating my words a few months from now, but I reckon it’s going to be a longer term project.

      We should all definitely do the new party thing tho’.

    169. Lochside says:

      I said it several threads back that the’leadership’ of the SNP is totally compromised: all the ‘old school’ jumping ship; a few Salmond loyalists emerging belatedly (to say the least!) to settle scores; and the relentless bewokeratification of the N.E.C. and the candidates for the 2021 ‘Election.’ All presided over by the Sturgeonmeister and her anglo-saxon/caledonian ("Quizmaster" - Ed) handlers.

      Salmond sold the jerseys in plain sight with his trashing of the seat majority convention of decades for a gamble on a bent referendum and his pitiful ‘Sonny Liston’ moment when he threw the match against Darling on ‘Currency’ live on telly..he former Oil Economist of the RBS versus a Britnat ‘sleeper’ Darling..the beginning of the end game.

      There are no Bruce or Wallace..just us the Scottish people. The people who could make the change are the SNP caucus at Westminster..they alone hold our Sovereignty as representatives of the Scottish nation. If even a few of them stood up and told the criminal tory gang that on behalf of the Scottish people they were dissolving the Union for all the multiple breaches and criminal cronyism which have occurred in the last session of the English dominated and domineering parliament it would at least be a start.

      Unfortunately, I don’t believe that there is any desire or courage amongst the majority of the crew that we elected to do so. They will sit either there or remotely on line whilst the Devolved charade is consigned to the dustbin of history and along with it..Scotland’s very existence by England’s remorseless elite.

    170. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Why is my post aboot health care under moderation? Genuinely curious.

    171. Dan says:

      @ WRYC

      Hmm, if it is health related you may have tripped the moderation filter with word the”r*pe”utic.

    172. McDuff says:

      Sturgeon has turned out to be a strange and nasty individual who seems intent in destroying the SNP and with it independence. Was she always like this or has she been a sleeper waiting her chance.
      Alec Salmond worked closely with her for many years, did he have any idea as to what she was like and would become?

    173. Mac says:

      It is the question we all keep coming back to.

      Do we save the SNP or start a new party.

      I think it can be saved still. The wokeratti look like they have their talons in deep but in reality they are thick woke pillows who could not fight their way out a wet paper bag, physically or intellectually. None of them got the job on their competence level, far from it.

      All we have to do is (for once) actually shake their tree and half of them will end up a mangled heap on the ground.

      They are bullies, crybullies in fact. And we all know that bullies are cowards. Let’s not abandon the SNP to this set of weak pathetic tossers.

    174. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Dan says:
      19 October, 2020 at 9:38 pm
      @ WRYC

      Hmm, if it is health related you may have tripped the moderation filter with word the”r*pe”utic.’


    175. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Actually, I am wrong. I did use the word ‘r##ed,’ in relation to the current state of the NHS. But not frivolously.

    176. crazycat says:

      @ Lochside at 9.28

      Salmond sold the jerseys in plain sight with his trashing of the seat majority convention of decades for a gamble on a bent referendum

      Although I agree with you about that, I also suspect that, without the 2014 referendum, the SNP would still not have anything like a majority of Scotland’s Westminster MPs. (That’s an untestable hypothesis, of course.)

    177. crazycat says:

      @ WRYC at 9.42

      I don’t think automatic filters can detect frivolity, or lack thereof 😉

    178. Ross says:

      That question from Iain Lawson is grimey I’m afraid.

      I dont want anyone to feel that accusing someone of misconduct may bar them from standing should the court ultimately not believe the conduct to be criminal.
      The man’s question has other consequences.

    179. PacMan says:

      crisiscult says: 19 October, 2020 at 9:10 pm

      Also, just tweeted by Joanna Cherry

      I wonder if this ‘leaked document’ is either letting this Tory plan get sounded out in an open platform or is mischief making on their part?

    180. crisiscult says:

      @pacman Suspect you are right. Actually the recommendations from the ‘leaked report’ would never happen e.g. give the Scottish parliament more powers. The opposite is happening and I think there’s something atavistic about not wanting to cede power.

    181. robbo says:

      Whatever you say Stan the mam.


    182. Andy Ellis says:


      Maybe in retrospect our mistake was putting all our eggs in one SNP shaped basket? We don’t have a “working” Yes movement as such: we allowed (or were lazy enough?) to let the SNP fill the void on the premise that they were just a vehicle to get us indy, and we’d change things when that was delivered.

      That hasn’t worked out so well. 🙁

    183. PacMan says:

      crisiscult says: 19 October, 2020 at 9:51 pm

      @pacman Suspect you are right. Actually the recommendations from the ‘leaked report’ would never happen e.g. give the Scottish parliament more powers. The opposite is happening and I think there’s something atavistic about not wanting to cede power.

      The saying needs to get drilled into people, Never trust a Tory.

      If there is any devolution of power by Westminster, it will be devolving them to the UK Civil service hub. It might sound good but the bottom line is this power will be wielded by unelected civil servants, not elected officials.

    184. Bill Craig says:

      “In the course of the conversation Mr Jones volunteered that the conversation was causing some amusement in the SNP HQ office.”

      Does that mean other employees of the party were listening-in, via speaker-phone? There’s respect for you. It seems that party staffers have forgotten, if they ever knew, that their job is ultimately about working for the membership.

      That the NEC was allowed to grow to having 42 members (in a committee!), which makes it un-workable, raises questions about the leadership of the party. Did no-one at the top point out that a committee of that size is going to be chaotic? No wonder it was easily hi-jacked.

      What a god-awful mess!

    185. willie says:

      News Update:

      Secretaries and branch convenors in Dumbarton Constituency sill in communication lock down with denied access to party systems.

      Meanwhile the National Secretary has advised all members that he has appointed a chairman to convene a hustings that he, the national secretary has arranged.

      With email systems locked down, and with around 150 members without email communication, the media blackout by HQ is biting.

      Selection process is invalid, should be cancelled.

    186. Dan says:

      @ Ruglonian at 12.37pm

      A fine feisty and passionate post there.
      However, may I remind you that as part of this Shithell Caledonia… You can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave!

      Well not easily now that the freedom of movement of people and capital have been removed from us against our will.

      Plus, you have commitments and responsibilities now, I mean who’s gonna put up the Wings gazebo and look after the hairy string should you leave. 😉

    187. Robert Louis says:

      Kate at 123pm,

      Exactly. It is little comfort to say vote SNP anyway, since it is abundantly clear that Nicola Sturgeon and her husband, Peter Murrell have ZERO intent of purusing independence.

      Even if the SNP win a majority in May – which is looking increasingly unlikely with each passing day- they have no intention of pursuing independence. They will waste a year pursuing a ‘section 30’, in the full knowledge it won’t happen, then they will finally decide (be forced) to call a referendum in 2022, but the actual referendum will not be actually held until 2023/2024.

      This is why I say Nicola Sturgeon has to go, she already has many clear democratic mandates to pursue independence, but she herself CHOOSES not to.

      The SNP is a joke, and I for one, shall never forgive Nicola Sturgeon for wasting chance after chance for independence. She is no good, her and her bearded wokeist chums.

      If ever the indy movement needed a leader, it is now. The SNP are finished, and heading down the toilet just like Labour did, ignoring their own core support.

    188. Stuart MacKay says:

      Iain Lawson’s simple question really cuts to the heart of the matter,

      There’s simply no way to even hear the question without leaving a bad taste in the mouth. Has the decay in the leadership of the SNP really taken us to this level.

      It’s really worth your time to read it but you won’t be any better for it.

      Time to grab a shovel…

    189. Colin Alexander says:


      Well done for highlighting the truth. It was under Alex Salmond’s leadership around 1999 when the SNP ditched Scottish sovereignty for a begging bowl British devolution indyref – and lost 15 years later and Scotland’s been losing more with every passing day ever since.

      Murrell was Salmond’s man.

      Sturgeon was Salmond’s endorsement, as she was a banker friendly gradualist like himself.

      This is no a diatribe against Alex Salmond either. Swinney, Mike Russell etc are all just as guilty of badly failing Scotland but are venerated as heroes of the indy movement.

      How that is, I just cannae see.

      It’s no been SIX wasted years under Sturgeon. It’s been 21 wasted years under the gradualist, devolutionist SNP.

    190. Mist001 says:

      I’ve said it before and I’ll keep saying it, AUOB ALWAYS claim to have the numbers, ALWAYS but where are they? Their silence is deafening.

      FFS, somebody get them off their arses and find out if they can walk the talk and organise a mass demonstration outside Bute House.

      If they won’t do that, then they’re nothing but mouthy cowards who hide in times of trouble.

      I KNOW they read this site, so come on you fucks, get your people outside of Bute House in the pishing rain, if need be and DO SOMETHING.

    191. Dan says:

      Re. The SNP being the vehicle to Indy.

      As an engineer, it has been disappointing to have witnessed the massive efforts so many in the YES movement have put in to maintaining and fueling the vehicle over recent years, only to see a relatively small amount of utter shitheads grab the steering wheel and joyride the fuck out of said vehicle, leaving it a trashed smoking wreck at the very time we need it to be running efficiently.
      For anyone that counters this with “but the polls numbers are great”, at least be honest and admit that the polls figures are generated by folk that aren’t at the sharp end of following politics and all the associated shit around it.
      Are you so certain those figures would hold up once the MSM and BBC start their inevitable weaponising of these various ridiculous self inflicted matters the SNP are involving themselves in.

      There have been chats btl previously about the lack of folk in politics with anything other than academic and legal backgrounds.
      I’m now fairly convinced having moved in certain political circles that the lack of practical gumption on how things actually work in the real world, rather than just theoretical thoughts and ideas is part of the reason we find ourselves where we are.

    192. Alf Baird says:

      Colin Alexander

      You and Lochside are right; no nationalist politician retiring on a unionist pension can be called a hero of the independence movement, rather the opposite.

      All SNP elected national representatives are on the UK payroll. He who pays the piper….

    193. Colin Alexander says:

      21 years down a dead-end road.

      Independence in Europe ( the European Community at the time)via indyref was the new SNP devolution policy under Salmond.

      Under Salmond the SNP abandoned a majority the long-held policy that a majority of Scottish MP seats is a mandate to begin independence negotiations.

      When it came to it in 2014, the EU, as it later became, sided with the British state. Just as it sided with the Spanish state.

      Now, the Brits know the SNP are colonials on the British payroll and have grown fond of English gold.

    194. boris says:

      Conditioned by the brutality of the first and each succeeding Westminster regime over 300+ years, the Scottish view of Westminster is far removed from that of the people of Newcastle or Leeds.

      The majority of Scots perceive Westminster to be a parliament that has imposed 313+ years of murderous and dictatorial rule.

      They see it as a political regime that has denied them their right to economic and political sovereignty. Westminster is not Scotland’s Parliament and never will be.

      Scots, with Brexit forced upon them against their wishes, are now clear in their minds that Unionist politicians will continue to impose their will over Scots regardless of any economic, social or other hardship.

    195. CameronB Brodie says:

      The EU may have ‘under-performed’ in respect of Catalonia, but it has no jurisdiction to intervene in internal British politics, so they are limited in how they can support Scotland. They can’t deliver justice for us, only we can grasp that prize.

    196. Stan Broadwood says:

      Tartan pig sty

      You have just lost your house.

      You just can’t stomach ANYONE belittling that evil little bastard Sturgeon.

      I have told you before, turn your guns on the real enemy.

      There are no Yoon Trolls on Wings, only
      Sturgeon apologists, like yourself wee man.

      And is it true what they are saying Pig Sty, are you really an admirer of this Woke man/woman brigade???

      Are you sitting there in your best dress and wife’s sussies on.

      Ya wee piece of Sturgeon shit.

    197. Colin Alexander says:

      To be fair to Salmond, it’s easier to be wise AFTER the events.

      I wonder if Alex will ever accept abandoning the plebiscite election policy was a huge mistake.

      I’m sure he would regard putting faith in Murrell and Sturgeon were huge mistakes.

      One thing I am certain of, for the SNP to still be punting the s30 Order Holyrood Indyref policy, after everything that has happened, and is happening, is an absolute disgrace.

    198. crazycat says:

      @ Andy Ellis at 9.53

      That we don’t have a “working Yes movement as such” is not down to want of trying on my part*; the group I’ve worked with since 2014 never stopped campaigning, and we are not the only ones.

      Nevertheless, the surge of people joining the SNP after the referendum (not including me; I prefer single-issue campaigning to parties) were easily diverted at a time when there was no prospect of another referendum.

      The electorate at large had resumed normal life, and all those election campaigns gave people who had acquired a taste for activism something to do.

      We are where we are, though, and need a new strategy.

      (*I’m not suggesting that you said it was.)

    199. MorvenM says:

      Re the leaked Bloomberg report.

      The suggestion of coming up with an “alternative settlement”, falling far short of indy, and letting us have a vote on that, is an intriguing one, but I doubt if the Tories have the smarts for it.

      More likely, they will just take away the SG’s budget, give it to the Civil Service and then leave people to wonder what MSPs are doing to earn their salaries.

      It’s interesting if they’re considering options though – it suggests they expect trouble from somewhere, even if it’s not the present pathetic SG leadership.

    200. Joe says:

      @Stan Broadwood

      Pished oot ma face just now but:

      You are basically right on. If a little bit on the rough side.


    201. Colin Alexander says:

      Am I the only one who thinks: Sounds just like Kezia Dugdale or Jim Murphy, when I read of SNP candidates whose employment history consists of:

      Studied politics, left uni and went to work for the SNP as SNP office staff.

      And husband and wife in politics. Families making politics their family business.

      It mirrors British Labour in Scotland.

      It’s like an out of touch political bubble of people whose life is politics and politicians.

    202. tartandiaspora says:

      Are you sitting there in your best dress and wife’s sussies on?

      says stanley, gloppin’ awa’ in his sweaty bedsit.

    203. MorvenM says:

      To those of you panning Alex Salmond, he took a brave gamble and almost pulled it off.

      It was the disgraceful breaking of the rules with the Vow and wall to wall Gordon Brown lying and scaremongering that swung the vote at the last minute.

      The referendum campaign was a dynamic and energising process which converted many people to independence and encouraged them to join the SNP in droves to continue the battle.

      He’s not the one who betrayed their trust.

    204. Effijy says:

      On TV I heard the words of an English First World War soldier
      Moving up to a battle in France in May 1915.

      He said it was Hell times a thousand with constant shell and machine gun
      fire and decimated bodies of the Scottish troops they send I first.

      This is a constant theme for Scots to be sacrificed by England’s British army
      From the battle of Waterloo to the Second World War.

      It explains why over 25% of U.K. deaths in World War One were Scottish.

      We have always been England’s slave to use and abuse lies and deceit.

    205. MorvenM says:

      More shenanigans going on at SNP HQ:

      Roger Mullin would appreciate some follows on Twitter, as he is locked out of his old account.

    206. cirsium says:

      @Lochside, 9.28
      There are no Bruce or Wallace..just us the Scottish people. The people who could make the change are the SNP caucus at Westminster..they alone hold our Sovereignty as representatives of the Scottish nation. If even a few of them stood up and told the criminal tory gang that on behalf of the Scottish people they were dissolving the Union for all the multiple breaches and criminal cronyism which have occurred in the last session of the English dominated and domineering parliament it would at least be a start.

      That action could be taken before the end of December. If Ms Sturgeon lost a vote of confidence at the Party conference in November, would that give enough time for Joanna Cherry to rally a majority of our representatives to stand up and go for it?

    207. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Stan Broadwood.

      Tartanpigsy would be in the top 5 of activists who contributed to the 45% vote in 2014.

      What, specifically, did you contribute?

      In case you’re ignorant of his contribution…–11#/

      Onnyhoo, what did you do?

    208. Stan Broadwood says:

      Doon toon
      I’ve done my bit, don’t you worry about that.

      Pig Sty is a Sturgeon apologist and a wee Fanny.

      He can’t cope with critisisum of that wee bastard Sturgeon.

      You sound as if you’re in a similar mould to Pig Sty.

      So you can fuck Off as well.

      Pissed off with you Sturgeon apologists .

      You lot are the fuckin reason we are in this fuckin mess.

      One more push, one more Mandate.

      Aye right,,,as they say.

    209. Stan Broadwood says:

      And if I was a Unionist, I would be supporting Sturgeon, because you can rest assured that there will be NO indyRef2.

    210. Stan Broadwood says:


      Apologies if language is not to your liking sir.

      But these Sturgeon apologists drive me crazy.

    211. ClanDonald says:

      If any of you are a member of the Dumbarton constituency, the non-woke candidate choice is Karen Conaghan. She’ll stick up for women’s rights.


    212. AYRSHIRE ROB says:

      Stan broadwood.

      Can you direct us to any twitter or facebook page or anything else where you’re standing in front of a yes banner or a Scotland flag of any kind?

      “And if I was a unionist” lol

    213. Daisy Walker says:

      @crisiscult says:
      19 October, 2020 at 9:04 pm
      Worst case scenario, and the SNP continue on their current path, here are a couple of questions (no doubt ridiculously naive but just thought I’d ask).

      When is the latest you could register to stand in the May elections?
      How much would you need per seat?

      I asked the electoral commission to clarify costs for a candidate to stand, as my understanding of the word ‘deposit’ usually means a larger sum is outstanding and due to be paid later.

      They replied as follows:

      ‘The sum to be deposited with the Returning officer is £500 which as you rightly say is returned if the candidate polls more than 5% of the valid votes cast.

      In this case, the term deposit refers to the amount of money deposited with the Returning Officer.’

      And from the web site I think the latest a person can register to be a candidate is 21 days before the vote? Best to check on that.

      My suggestion would be that the campaigning gets done now – for Indy/plebescite. And potential candidates become identified – with the Yes movement and the Voters – during this time.

      Registering as a Candidate can then be done much nearer the time, if the SNP don’t get their shit in order. If they REGISTER too soon THEY become the story when the emphasis should be on the campaign contents. Which is not to say we can’t have the game plan in situ and up and running as of now.

    214. Stan Broadwood says:


      AKA robbo.

      What is with you lot?

      Are you so ashamed to admit you are a Sturgeon fanatic???

      As I told your fellow Sturgeon supporter Toon, I don’t need to prove anything to anybody,,,my consciounce is clear,, always do what is best for the Yes Movement.

      Not afraid to call Sturgeon out.

      What about you robbo,,, let’s see all YOUR Yes memorabilia with you front and centre.

      And you are STILL NOT saying a bad word about Sturgeon it the SNP.

      Not once have I saw you critisize Sturgeon.

    215. A Person says:

      -Colin, Lochside-

      Sorry, that doesn’t fly. Alex Salmond wasn’t in a position to call a referendum before 2011 as the large majority of MPs were unionists. After the foundation of the Scottish Parliament a majority of its members were unionists before 2011. What was he supposed to do, unilaterally declare independence like the crazy guys who make themselves Prince of Big Tamland? No, as soon as a majority of Scotland’s representatives were pro-independence, in 2011, he launched a referendum, choosing the easiest way of doing this which was by getting Westminster’s consent. In those circumstances it was easy to get that consent because Cameron the numpty was so complacent.

      Let’s assume that if Cameron had said “no”, Alex would have tried a different approach. But your purist approach would have been a disaster. 28% supported Indy in 2011- if he had just declared UDI as you seem to be advocating, it would have been regarded as illegitimate and might well have led to the closure of Holyrood and the collapse of any nationalist sentiment. Instead he nearly got us over the line.

      The issue is that now a majority of the Scottish Parliament AND a majority of Scottish MPs are pro-independence, and unlike in 2011 when 28% supported it, now 58% do. And yet our “leader” won’t do anything about it.

    216. Colin Alexander says:

      I don’t disagree with anything MorvenM says at 11.14pm.

      Trying to be positive, support for indy did not plummet afterwards.

      We can say we did try to achieve indy by playing by British rules. The British didn’t follow the rules. That is a lesson that must be learned. That error must not be repeated.

      Indyref being the Gold standard of democracy is a lie.

      Any future vote on independence via election or referendum should require strict media neutrality and international observers and exit polling. That won’t happen in a British run vote.

    217. Fireproofjim says:

      Let us pray for an effective Covid vaccine as soon as possible. Then there will be no easy excuse for postponing another referendum.
      As things stand, and bearing in mind that the mass of the electorate are ignorant of the internal machinations of the NEC, the likely happening is that the SNP will almost certainly win an overall majority in May.
      With a commitment to a referendum in their manifesto and the virus likely to be in retreat by summer there will be no excuse for delay. They will be howled down if they try it and there are good MPs who will lead the chorus. I think these MPs are just biding their time.
      People like Joanna Cherry are well aware of what is going on and are smart enough to keep their powder dry.

    218. Balaaargh says:

      DRoss complaining in the papers that it’ll cost 200-300 for the average homeowner to replace their smoke alarms.

      Did mine at the weekend, £80 for 3 smoke alarms and 1 heat alarm.

    219. Achnababan says:

      The main objective was to kill as many young men as possible to prevent a mass uprising of workers to take down the elites… It worked. Scotland remained in the hands of the aristocracy and capitalists

    220. Craig Murray says:


      You are 100% totally right about Manni Singh. Got himself imprisoned. Just like that William Wallace. Got himself executed. Totally only had himself to blame. If only he had followed the Scots aristocrats in obeying the state’s rules he would have been fine.

      Now fuck off you pompous prig.

    221. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Stan Broadwood at 11:34 pm.

      You spewed out,
      “>So you can fuck Off as well.”</b

      It's good to read a well turned out phrase. In the same

      kinda vogue,eff off you Kanute.

    222. Beaker says:

      @Balaaargh says:
      20 October, 2020 at 12:34 am
      “DRoss complaining in the papers that it’ll cost 200-300 for the average homeowner to replace their smoke alarms.
      Did mine at the weekend, £80 for 3 smoke alarms and 1 heat alarm.”

      He does have a point. I’ve yet to meet one person who was aware of this legislation. It’s always been there for landlords, but the first I and others were aware was a flyer from an alarm company. The Scottish Government themselves estimate the cost to be approximately £220, and that is for alarms not needing the work of an electrician. I take it all of your alarms are interlinked and either been installed by an electrician or have the required 10 year batteries?

      What is really pissing people off is how this was quietly rolled out bang in the middle of a fucking pandemic with a various lockdown restrictions. Manufacturers are going to rip people off with this.

    223. Beaker says:

      @Craig Murray says:
      20 October, 2020 at 1:01 am
      “You are 100% totally right about Manni Singh. Got himself imprisoned. Just like that William Wallace. Got himself executed. Totally only had himself to blame. If only he had followed the Scots aristocrats in obeying the state’s rules he would have been fine.
      Now fuck off you pompous prig.”

      Grow up.

    224. twathater says:

      Hi can anyone give me the date when the indy ref appeal fund by the SNP started and when it was taken down, also does anyone have a screenshot of the actual appeal or an email of the same

    225. MaggieC says:

      twathater @ 3.04 am

      This from the bbc gives you the dates etc ,

      And the page is still on line without the donations page and the timeline page is quite interesting ,

      Hope this is useful .

    226. Abalha says:

      In today’s Herald

      NICOLA Sturgeon has warned against staging any large political gatherings ahead of a planned Rally for Independence later this month.

      The First Minister said the rules against large crowds applied “across the board”, and there would be no different treatment for Yes events.

      “The virus will spread regardless of the political affiliation,” she said.

      Ms Sturgeon made the comments after being asked at the daily briefing about the wisdom of a rally planned by the grassroots All Under One Banner (AUOB) group.

      AUOB, who are behind some of Scotland’s biggest Yes marches and rallies before the pandemic, are planning to hold the event in Dundee on October 31.

      They insist it will be not be a “mass gathering” and have limited participants.

      People are asked to apply to take part in the hour-long, physically distanced “static rally” with speakers to ensure safety, with face coverings, hand gel and gloves made available.

      The AUOB Facebook page states: “Please note this is not a mass gathering, nor is it a social gathering – this is outdoor activity.”

      Under the Covid rules, social gatherings outdoors are limited to six people over 12 from no more than two households.

      However outdoor “live events” can have 200 participants with social distancing.

      People from the five central health board areas under the toughest lockdown measures should also not be travelling out of their area to Dundee.

      Asked at the daily briefing, Ms Sturgeon was asked if those planning to take part would be putting the health of themselves and others at risk.

      She said: “Generally everybody should be complying with the restrictions on gatherings right now, because that’s in the interests of the health of all of us. There are no exceptions in my view from that. There’s very good reasons why large crowds of people should not be coming together right now. I stand up here every day and I say, avoid crowded places.

      “Unfortunately that will mean a lot of traditional Remembrance services do not go ahead this year. But big gatherings re not a good idea right now.”

      Pressed on whether the AUOB event should go ahead, she replied: “I don’t know how to be any clearer. I don’t think big events should be going ahead no matter what for, and I’ve been clear about that all along.

      “I don’t think anybody who has listened to me over the past six months now can be under any illusion that I don’t think big events should be going ahead right now because of the reasons we all know and understand.

      “And if what you [the media] are trying to do here is get some suggestion that I’m going to have a different view of a pro-independence rally than I would have for some other, then that’s not the case.

      “Because the virus will spread regardless of the political affiliation of the big gathering that might be taking place. The rules on gatherings apply across the board, and I really couldn’t be any clearer on that.”

    227. Abalha says:

      In reply to MaggieC at 704am, that timeline page is fascinating, thanks for posting it.

      As things are just now it really makes me sad, that’s my overwhelming emotion, not the usual anger, sadness, the people who really NEEDED a Yes vote in 2014, people at the bottom of Scottish society, that use foodbanks, escape through drugs,have absolutely no hope for a happy future were SO badly let down and continue to be let down by the Sturrell Medieval Court, stappit fu of mediocre and malleable courtiers.

    228. Dave M says:

      Craig, Manny Singh CHOSE to go to prison.

    229. PacMan says:

      Beaker says:20 October, 2020 at 1:26 am

      @Balaaargh says:
      20 October, 2020 at 12:34 am
      “DRoss complaining in the papers that it’ll cost 200-300 for the average homeowner to replace their smoke alarms.
      Did mine at the weekend, £80 for 3 smoke alarms and 1 heat alarm.”

      He does have a point. I’ve yet to meet one person who was aware of this legislation. It’s always been there for landlords, but the first I and others were aware was a flyer from an alarm company. The Scottish Government themselves estimate the cost to be approximately £220, and that is for alarms not needing the work of an electrician. I take it all of your alarms are interlinked and either been installed by an electrician or have the required 10 year batteries?

      What is really pissing people off is how this was quietly rolled out bang in the middle of a fucking pandemic with a various lockdown restrictions. Manufacturers are going to rip people off with this.

      I got a leaflet through the door as well about this.

      From my impression in the Scottish government website is that only wireless connected smoke alarms are required and don’t need to be hooked up to electricity supply. You can get them out of B&Q and do it yourself.

      However, a lot of people are going to think they will need to get the expensive option and get ripped off big time.

      Not a good move on the Scottish government.

    230. Willie says:

      Political suppression.

      Of course Sturgeon will resist, and resist by force, any attempt by campaigners to hold any form of political rally for independence.

      The lockdown in Dumbarton, the removal of political opponents like Salmond, Hirst, Murray are examples. But so is the jailing of Singh, The corruption of government, it apparatus of power it’s all in play.

      Make no mistake the Nasti Party is here. Physical force, the raw abuse of power – and let know one be under any doubt about what will happen to them should they decide to convene any form of political rally.

      Like the Jewish Communities In 1930s Germany I fear we are caught. The history of the tragedy that was 1930s Germany should have been a warning to us, but it hasn’t.

    231. Effijy says:

      Did we ever get to the bottom of the dispute that
      Scotland’s Covid figures were delayed due to the
      Number if test sent here from England?

      Westminster said there was no truth in it but when was
      the last year they actually said something truthful?

      PS with English shortages of test kits and delays in getting results
      even with no costs spared, isn’t it funny how 2 English Airports are
      Offering tests and results inside 60 minutes for £80?

    232. kapelmeister says:

      Abalha @7:06

      Covid is Sturgeon’s temporary excuse for not approving independence rallies. The truth is that the SNP hasn’t officially supported an independence rally since 2013.

    233. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      From Rhiannon Spear, 9 hours ago:

      ‘We’re polling at 58% + folk are more worried about getting views on their blog than focusing on getting independence over the line.

      I’m focused on independence + fighting for a more prosperous, equal Scotland.

      #DontVoteWoke seeks to divide at a pivotal time. Don’t buy into it.
      11:29 PM · Oct 19, 2020·Twitter for Android’


    234. Robert Graham says:

      Willie @ 8:39

      The same thing is happening with the Manchester standoff Tory ministers twisting the truth using totally irrelevant statistics to confuse the viewer or listener all of a sudden Andy Burnham is the devil incarnate ,
      I doubt if a single Tory is able to distinguish between Truth and Barefaced Lies ,

      A good interviewer just has to scratch the surface and every one of their arguments falls apart.

      To bad we are short of honest people it the media

    235. robertknight says:


      Love it!!!

    236. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      This is quite a fascinating tweet, for what it says aboot the FM’s obstinate, wannabe-omnipotent psychology. Arrogance personified.

    237. Breeks says:

      Correct me if I’m wrong here, but the nototious Section 30 is actually Section 30 of the 1998 Scotland Act, the mini constitution (small ‘c’) of the Holyrood Assembly.

      Off the top of my head, I don’t recall it being a later amendment, so I think I’m correct in saying we have Labour to thank for it’s presence in the Scotland Alex, NOT Alex Salmond.

      Should Alex Salmond have bucked and rejected Section 30? Maybe, but then he’d never have secured a referendum. And don’t forget, Scotland was a sovereign Nation before the 2014 Referendum, and Scotland was still a sovereign Nation after the 2014 Referendum because No was the democratic will of the sovereign electorate.

      Alex Salmond was NOT reckless with Scotland’s Constitution, and didn’t bargain away any principle which could not be later redeemed.

      Compare and contrast that to Sturgeon in 2016, arbitrarily ignoring the will of the Scottish people, and adopting the high handed English doctrine that ‘her’ parliament could overrule the will of the sovereign people, and then have Scotland lie prostrate and compliant before the superiority of the Westminster Parliament. What a fucking disgrace for any First Minister of Scotland.

      Alex Salmond most assuredly did NOT sell out Scotland. Sturgeon however has earned her place in the 1707 Parcel of Rogues Hall of Fame.

      Yet, if she should give up what she has begun and repeadedly mandated to do, seeking to make us or our kingdom subject to the Queen of England or the UK Parliament, we should exert ourselves at once to drive them out as our enemy and a subverter of their own rights and ours, and make some other Assembly who was well able to defend us our Parliament; for, as long as a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be subjected to the lordship of the English. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, nor Trans Rights, that we are fighting, but for freedom alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

      I think there is little doubt that the ‘driving out’ of Sturgeon as our enemy and subverter of Scotland’s Constitutional rights is now thoroughly well warranted, and the actual subversion of those rights should be properly challenged with immediate effect as a breach of the 1707 Treaty of Union.

      No gradualism involved. No bullshit referendum in 2026. No Sturgeon conspiracy to sell us out.

      Scotland can end the Union WITHOUT a democratic mandate. International Law does not ask for one or require one, but even if it did, we have Scotland’s democratic will from 2016 which counted for nothing, while the colonial subjugation of Scotland enjoys faux legitimacy.

      We should call time on this fraud before the damage to Scotland is permanent and irreparable.

    238. Contrary says:

      A Person and I think Lochside and Colin maybe ,,, I’ve slept in badly so only have 5 mins to get to work (okay, so it takes 10 second to travel there these days, but I do prefer to get dressed beforehand), and may not have picked up the theme of your discussion correctly. But, in case I have,

      Yes I think Alex Salmond has made mistakes, one of them could have been restructuring the SNP in a way that’s not great. He made a mistake on the currency issue in 2014 for sure. What we also should remember is that his advisors and people influencing him were around back then when he was in charge. That includes Nicola Sturgeon. I believe he was as taken in as much as the rest of us.

      But Alex Salmond admits his mistakes, and moves on :

      Acht, that’s the long read comment I made re Alex, but it contains the link I meant to post here – that video of his show is him saying he made a mistake re currency and he’s fully on board with the ‘new economical thinking’ now. And it also shows that very far from a broken man – I think most of us would be a crumbled wreck after what he’s been through – he’s looking at a positive future,,,

      Nicola Sturgeon, is not fair, not transparent, has no intention of giving us a ref etc etc but it was when I realised she does NOT have the skills, none of them, required to actually do independence, she can’t even delegate (re cliques) roles correctly – I knew she was a dead duck – pointless having her anywhere near the Indy cause.

      Alex Salmond DOES have the skills to take us through Indy – and he’s got the ability to admit mistakes, change his mind based on facts, and has probably gained a lot of wisdom from his recent experiences. He has the flexibility, the desire for change, now knows who his friends are, the economic know-how, the drive, the experience etc we need to lead us through. I don’t care about his past mistakes, he has shown he has integrity, and he’s the person for the job – whether as leader or behind the scenes (as if) I don’t care – he looks fit and ready to take in the world and I’ll be backing him.

      Dammit, I’m late for work now – why the fuck can’t I be brief?! That’s rhetorical, as in: don’t answer.

    239. Contrary says:

      Breeks is correct there re Alex Salmond. And Breeks, I agree with your post yesterday re a strategy to get independence – I fully back you on that way forward. I would nominate Perth as a good assembly location – just because of its more central location and decent roads leading there. Edinburgh is not central and is a poor choice for a capital. Perth has some historical features too, but those would be points against it in my book.

    240. Dan says:

      @ WRYC

      She’s a bit of a weapon so I like to apply gun rules to Spear. 🙂

      1 – Always treat the Spear as loaded
      2 – Always keep the Spear in a locked secure cabinet
      3 – Never point the Spear at anything you don’t intend to destroy

    241. Ottomanboi says:

      Something from Egypt.
      “If there’s anything we’ve learned from the outbreak of COVID-19, it is the importance of constant disinfection using quality products. Offering a wide range of every-day personal products, in addition to its staple range of disinfectants, Dettol, the well-established brand has earned the trust for a nationwide impact mission”.
      The active ingredient in Dettol is Benzalkonium chloride a chemical whose use has issues.
      This is the exploitative pharmaceutical universe Sturgeon is buying into.
      Humans survived (and will continue to survive) as a species thanks to the natural management of bacteria and viruses.
      Being too clean could just be the thing to kill us all off.

    242. Astonished says:

      It appears ” DON’T VOTE WOKE” is rattling spears. 🙂

    243. robbo says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      20 October, 2020 at 1:04 am
      Hi Stan Broadwood at 11:34 pm.


      I see you have the badge of honour from the stupid wan Brian.

      Oh well, join his hatefest club. He’ll be bragging to his yoon buddies down the pub-oh wait nae pubs open. He’s only 12 anyhow, so it’ll be to local 1st year pals.

    244. Dorothy Devine says:

      we all ( nearly) went out into the street to clap the NHS , how about we all go out into the street waving a Saltire on a given date and time and regularly?

      That certainly couldn’t be given the covid excuse.

      It would cheer me up if nothing else.

    245. Republicofscotland says:

      I wish that idiot Andrew Wilson would keep his nose out of things he knows nothing about.

    246. Republicofscotland says:

      The Tory government begins tactics to prevent Scottish independence, like Sturgeon.

    247. Dan says:

      Seems to be some simple, honest, and effective campaigning going on in Wales.

    248. Colin Alexander says:

      Re Manni Singh

      I’m with Craig Murray on this one, even though I don’t usually approve of swearing.

      It’s no a case of assessing only that Manni refused “house arrest” so got jailed.

      SNP / Green GCC (supposedly both indy) deliberately tried to restrict the number of people attending the march. Manni refused to go along with that. That’s how Manni eventually ended up getting jailed.

      Manni stuck with a time to allow all the marchers to take part. He kept the Polis fully informed about that.

      The Polis only took action against Manni after SNP GCC made a complaint against him to the Polis after the SNP’s plan to cut the number of marchers failed because Manni defied them.

      Remember, Sturgeon was not in favour of Auob. Sturgeon’s SNP are trying to suppress indy. Always supposedly travelling towards indy but never arriving. Just like Labour abolishing the House of Lords for 100 years.

      It’s Sturgeon’s woke allies that run the GCC. Rhiannon Spear is a GCC councillor.

    249. Breeks says:

      In my humble opinion, Alex Salmond’s biggest strategic mistakes were currency, not addressing the bias in the media, and in a wider context, it seemed everybody was duped into following the narrative that was determined by the media.

      I remember making the point over and over that the actual currency we’d use wasn’t the issue, but having the power to make the choice. But the media was allowed to repeat ad-nauseum the lie that Scotland couldn’t use the pound.

      The 2014 Referendum Campaign was also, in my opinion, too light on the Constitutional issues, and put democracy on a pedestal.

      But on balance, Alex Salmond got a heck of a lot more right than he got wrong, and he rattled the Establishment to it’s core. Sturgeon hasn’t even woken it up.

      Looking to the future, IF Alex Salmond and Joanna Cherry put their heads together, I think Scotland will benefit tremendously from Salmond’s strategic thinking and statesmanship, and the laser guided Joanna Cherry compiling the merits of a Contitutional challenge to the 1707 Union and it’s breach through Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation.

      I’d go even further… For all those who say “Ah! Democracy!”, I say we have the democracy box ticked, because it’s the 2016 democratic choice we’d be Constitutionally defending. On top of that, we’d also promise to hold a ratification plebiscite.

      Lastly, the imminent conclusion of Brexit, and the very presence of COVID, provides legitimate cause to undertake an Emergency Initiative in a very short space of time to circumvent the rigmarole of holding a Referendum when there is desperate cause, but simply inadequate time to do it.

      Done right, Scotland would be Independent and fully Sovereign before December’s end, and furiously negotiating an Emergency UK Transition Agreement to begin instantaneously. But even if delayed, I feel certain we’d have a veto blocking Scotland’s Brexit, or at least paralysing Brexit until the disputed sovereignty of the Westminster Parliament was resolved.

      Yes, yes, yes, I know the Unionists would be outraged and there could be trouble, BUT, the breach of the Union Treaty and Scotland’s unconstitutional subjugation was all the work of Westminster Tories. If there’s a problem exposed in it’s legality, then hey, sue Boris Johnson and go have your riot on his lawn.

    250. kapelmeister says:

      Don’t Vote Woke.

      That’ll do as a slogan.

      And it’s Argyll & Bute variant,

      Don’t Cheer Spear.

    251. Colin Alexander says:

      And if anyone believes the reason given by the SNP that they wanted to reduce numbers to reduce disruption to Glesga city centre then you need to take your heid out of the sand.

      The SNP wanted the number of marchers suppressed to try and give the idea that support for indy is high but no high enough, so people will have to keep voting for Sturgeon’s devolution SNP for x number of years.

    252. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      I do like Don’t Vote Woke myself. Three rhyming words with a simple, effective, sensible message. Should thank Ms. FakeSpear for giving it to us!

    253. McDuff says:

      Quite agree.
      The other thing Salmond got wrong at the time was allowing anyone who was resident in Scotland got to vote in the referendum.
      There should have been a stipulation that you had to be resident in Scotland for at least five years before being allowed to vote thus showing some committment to the country. This would have reduced the English No vote and the EU nationals who voted No believing the MSM scare stories about Scotland being kicked out of the EU.

    254. Colin Alexander says:

      We could spend all day arguing whether whether Alex should have gone the s30 order route. I have my opinion about that, others have their’s. Fair enough. I think we should leave it at that.

      I 100% accept Alex really did want indy. There is no difference of opinion about that.

      We are not in 2012 or 2014 anymore. 2020 is a different world.

      A different SNP. A different UK Govt. A different UK Parliament.
      We are not in the EU now. Devolution has been ripped up.

      The UK state acted in bad faith with broken false promises.

    255. Scozzie says:

      Don’t do Twitter but really hope the #DON’T VOTE WOKE takes off big time. All these candidates need brought out into the sunlight for what they are and what they represent.

      Can’t remember who said we need a good guy / wank (woke) list but we really do need it. Although not sure there’s many ‘good uns’ to promote right enough (it feels like a virus has infected us and not of the COVID kind).

      To coin a phrase – ‘we’ve lost a battle but we’ll win the war’. The YES movement need to knock some great brains together – can’t allow these soft on independence nutters to get elected. A fight back needs to begin.

    256. Breege Smyth seems to be the major contender to Speirs in the Argyle and Bute constituency,

      she seems to have the backing of many stalwart Scottish nationalists,and as far as i know is not mad or a mysoginist,

      hopefully she will not be intimidated and bullied by the young woke mysoginist stasi that infest SNP.

    257. Kenny says:

      I do think Breeks is right regarding the need to use Coronavirus FOR a declaration of independence. Nicola Sturgeon says the opposite!

      [which suggests that it is exactly the right thing to do!]

      I would also be holding a constitutional convention with half from SNP real independence elected representatives and half from a cross-section of Scottish society (world of arts, business, law, etc.). To speak on behalf of the Scottish PEOPLE (so there will be “dual power”: so what?) and ask that Scotland’s membership of the EU be frozen for two years while we sort out things at our end. So do not throw the UK’s membership in the bin, we will take it up: in spirit from 01.01.21 and in body slightly later.

      It is like the biblical story of the Creation, when the earth was still without form, but the spirit was there. The spirit came first and “moved above the waters”. So here. The spirit exists, the body (control over physical Scotland) just does not yet. But the spirit will bring about the body.

    258. Craig Murray says:


      Apologise for the swearing. Possibly was not entirely sober :-). But I find the callous attitude towards an Independence supporter sitting in prison intolerable.

      He started a demo a bit late. Any punishment other than a token fine is completely out of order. And it was the SNP group on Glasgow council who directly pushed for his prosecution; the police were not bothered. Anyone who is OK with that is a callous
      oh I nearly swore again.

    259. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appreciate this is your site and that you need to cover your back, but have I not done enough to earn your trust yet?

    260. Abalha says:

      In reply to Scot Finlayson at 1055, nah don’t think Breege Smyth is the sort of woman who can be intimidated by anyone.

      She even got a rousing endorsement from Ian Hamilton, which has gone down very well.

    261. Colin Alexander says:

      If people believe the people of Scotland are sovereign, then constitutional referendums should be binding on parliament and parliamentarians, not advisory.

      Sturgeon’s SNP did not regard Scotland’s decision to Remain in the EU as a sovereign decision binding on them, the Scot Govt or Scot Parliament or UK.

      Sturgeon personally abandoned “the people of Scotland have decided” position and went begging Theresa May for an N.I. type deal in return.

      Big Theresa telt Sturgeon to awa’ and bile yer heid, or words to that effect.

    262. Abalha says:

      In reply to Scozzie at 1049

      The SNP Women’s Pledge is doing that on their twitter acct; so far they’ve endorsed

      Michelle Thomson, Falkirk East
      Sameeha Rehman Stirling
      Jim Fairlie Perthshire south and Kinrosshire
      Marie McNair Clydebank and Milngavie
      Rob Thompson Dunfermline
      Angus Nelson Edinburgh Western, not sure why it’s not the likely winner Ewan Hunter who has the backing of local stalwarts like Ian Grant, who most certainly can’t be accused of being ‘woke’.
      Breege Smyth Argyll and Bute
      Ash Denham Edinburgh Eastern, personally think they’ve got that wrong, I’d be supporting Cllr Kate Campbell who has the support of good anti current GRA women in the constituency and Ash, well, where to start.
      Christine Grahame Midlothian South Tweedale and Lauderdale
      Chris McEleny Greenock and Inverclyde
      Joan McAlpine Dumfriesshire
      Lynne Anderson Uddingston and Bellshill
      Catriona McDonald Edinburgh Southern


    263. Abalha says:

      And on other non ‘woke’ seats so far not listed by the SNP’s women pledge , with a couple of others I’ve been working on a list so to add to the ones SWP haven’t done yet;

      Richard Arkless Ayr
      Kenny Gibson Cunninghame North
      Lyn Jardine East Lothian
      Marco Biagi Edinburgh Central
      Emma Harper Galloway and West Dumfries
      Caroline Welsh Kelvin
      Roger Mullin Kirkcaldy

    264. Gary45% says:

      Don’t Vote woke, vote Racism.
      Don’t vote woke, vote clueless.
      “Wings over Scotland. The festering scab you can’t stop picking.”

    265. David Caledonia says:

      All these cretins seem to think they can do as they please and get away with it
      Surely we can get rid of them all before the elections next year, and if that’s not possible I would certainly support any party that Alex Salmond was to form
      Alex to me is the best man for that job, and he can stay or stand down once he gets the job done for independence
      Anybody got any thoughts about that as I know its been talked about before on wings

    266. Breeks says:

      Scot Finlayson says:
      20 October, 2020 at 10:55 am

      Breege Smyth seems to be the major contender to Speirs in the Argyle and Bute constituency,

      she seems to have the backing of many stalwart Scottish nationalists,and as far as i know is not mad or a mysoginist…

      I saw she had the backing of Ian Hamilton QC…

      For those who wonder, Ian Hamilton was one of the heroes who broke into Westminster Abbey back in the 50’s and removed the Stone of Destiny, and brought it back to Scotland.

      That’s some endorsement for Breege Smyth, and it’s actually a heartfelt endorsement that will make you smile…

    267. A Person says:

      -RE the smoke alarms thing-

      Saying “its only £220” is very odd, for an awful lot of people in Scotland £220 would break their budget.

    268. Breeks says:

      Sorry Abalha… didn’t see you’d already posted it. 😉

    269. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      ‘Gary45% says:
      20 October, 2020 at 11:33 am
      Don’t Vote woke, vote Racism.
      Don’t vote woke, vote clueless.
      “Wings over Scotland. The festering scab you can’t stop picking.”

      Don’t vote woke, consign sociopathic , narcissistic wannabe-American mass mental illness to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

    270. Mist001 says:

      I like Manny Singh and my personal belief is that he would have done what I’ve been calling for, taking his numbers and organising a mass protest outside Bute House but it’s important to remember that he wasn’t just slung into jail, he was offered a choice of either a home curfew or jail and it was his personal decision to choose jail.

      Whether it was plain stupidity or a shot at martyrdom, I have no idea but stop making him into this victim of the establishment for being in jail because that’s simply not true.

    271. Alf Baird says:

      A little different from Rev Stu’s proposal, however in my view Scottish independence could be achieved as follows:

      a) the 48 SNP MP’s (81% of Scotland’s sovereign representatives) must now advise Westminster of their intent to withdraw Scotland from the UK union, pending:

      b) a confirmatory plebiscite, which would be the primary purpose of next May’s Holyrood national election.

    272. Scozzie says:

      Abalha @ 11.21am
      Big thanks for that, maybe keep a wee running list for folks.

      Gary45% @ 11.33am
      Eh? Not sure what your point is – what’s racist or clueless about the ‘don’t vote woke’ hashtag? Please inform yourself – the woke mantra is a science denying attack on female rights.

    273. Bob Mack says:


      Education is a wonderful thing. It means of course you have to study viewpoints different from your own as well.

    274. Ron Maclean says:

      As First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is not obliged to obtain independence for the people of Scotland. As Leader of the SNP and a member of the Party she must endorse the Aims of the Party and accept its Constitution, Rules and Standing Orders. The primary aim of the SNP is to achieve independence for the people of Scotland. The primary aim of the First Minister is tae dae fit she’s telt by Westminster. These aims cannot be reconciled. Ms Sturgeon is an obedient but uninspiring First Minister. These are not qualities which will ever take us to independence. She could stay on as First Minister but we need a new leader for the SNP with the necessary attributes.

      The conflict of interest between leadership of the SNP and the position of First Minister is obvious and should have been resolved by now. Why hasn’t it? Is it because there isn’t anyone in the SNP who could lead us to independence. We need an answer to that question.

    275. robertknight says:


      Newsflash Gary…

      A party stuffed full of Wokerati MPs, MSPs and First Minister won’t care if you’re Gary45%, Gary55% or even Gary65%… you’ll still be NO CLOSER TO INDY!

      Your end goal is not same as theirs. The SNP is for them just a vehicle for taking forward their narrow WOKE-driven agenda.

      Wake up man!

    276. Albert Herring says:

      “he was offered a choice of either a home curfew or jail and it was his personal decision to choose jail”

      He would have been unable to earn a living under house arrest. At least he gets fed in prison.

    277. susanXX says:

      Anyone know if Fergus Ewing is woke?

    278. CameronB Brodie says:

      I appear to be on perma-moderation, but I still need to try to curb folk’s hostility to WOKE theory and practice. The NEC’s war on women is the exact opposite of woke, it is pure MISOGYNY that identifies as woke. WOKE theory does not deny medical philosophy and bioethics, where as the GRA amendments do.

      So it would be extremely helpful towards Scotland’s future, if folk could distinguish between policy that undermines public health, and policy which supports it. So uncritical hostility to WOKE theory is simply unhelpful.

    279. Tartanpigsy says:

      @Brian Doon The Toon,
      Don’t worry about me, water of a pigs back.
      Stan just loving this division on here, don’t feed him.
      My views in Sturgeons dereliction of duty have got fuck all to do with him.
      @IanB I think we should find some other place to discuss tactics regarding Rule Brittania House or whatever they are calling the new colonial office in Edinburgh.
      I’m sure Stan, and his other typing hand Joe would get all over excited if I discussed how I think we should peacefully proceed with making that place non functional on here
      Over to you Stan, get your 77th brigade mouth froth ready…

    280. Breeks says:

      Alf Baird says:
      20 October, 2020 at 11:47 am

      A little different from Rev Stu’s proposal, however in my view Scottish independence could be achieved as follows:

      a) the 48 SNP MP’s (81% of Scotland’s sovereign representatives) must now advise Westminster of their intent to withdraw Scotland from the UK union, pending:

      b) a confirmatory plebiscite, which would be the primary purpose of next May’s Holyrood national election

      I could live with that, but as a Plan B, (and a Plan B simply because it arrives too late to save us from the expiry of the Transition Agreement). By May next year, Scottish Industry might be so de-regulated, even after a few months, that convergence with EU criteria is a stretch.

      Though, having said that, if the ‘pending’ nature of the withdrawal from Westminster was embraced by Europe and the notion of ‘holding pen’ status resurrected… then yep, plan works for me.

    281. Tartanpigsy says:

      Is there any reason why Joanna Cherry can’t challenge for the leadership, while still an MP in Westminster?

    282. The Dissident says:


      No there is not.

      Last time I looked, the party constitution states that if the leader is an MSP then that person is automatically considered the leader of that group and the group’s nominee for FM.

      Therefore if the leader is not an MSP, it would be up to the Holyrood group to elect its leader and FM nominee.

    283. Christian Schmidt says:

      Hmm, I have the feeling that alphabet women is used here in the same way that terf is often used – that as a negative and derogatory qualifier, with the intention to denigrate or that the writer has negative opinion on these people.

      I also wonder whether the fact that both insults are predominantly used against women is a bit misogynic? (If only in an Agüero sort-of-way, i.e. it wouldn’t have been done that easily with men…)

    284. PacMan says:

      WhoRattledYourCage says: 20 October, 2020 at 8:46 am

      From Rhiannon Spear, 9 hours ago:

      ‘We’re polling at 58% + folk are more worried about getting views on their blog than focusing on getting independence over the line.

      I’m focused on independence + fighting for a more prosperous, equal Scotland.

      #DontVoteWoke seeks to divide at a pivotal time. Don’t buy into it.
      11:29 PM · Oct 19, 2020·Twitter for Android’


      This Rhiannon Spear shouldn’t concern herself with what people are saying or getting their views on blogs.

      The only thing she needs to concern herself with is actually getting on with independence rather than just talking about it.

    285. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Christian Schmidt: Here we go with the (yawn!) ‘misogyny’ rubbish again. I am sure a lot worse terms could be used for a cabal of halfwit misandristic careerists who tried to put an innocent man in prison for the rest of his life, but hey, those poor, put-upon women,eh?

      Female hypocrisy these days disgusts me, and male feminist hypocrisy disgusts me even more. Try to put an innocent man in prison – no problem. Refer in less than glowing terms to those who tried to do so – misogyny. Laughably ludicrous and disgusting.

    286. CameronB Brodie says:

      WRYC is determined to misrepresent Christian Schmidt and WOKE theory, as he’s simply a bit narrow and parochial in his views. WOKE theory supports gender equality, where as the GRA amendments would harm all efforts so far made towards achieving parity between the sexes. So WRYC would simply appear to be conducting an exercise in what is called “gas-lighting”.

    287. Abalha says:

      In reply to susanxx at 1209pm, assume you’re joking, but if not he most certainly is not, one of the cabinet members who openly objects to current GRA.

    288. Abalha says:

      In reply to
      Breeks says:
      20 October, 2020 at 11:43 am
      Sorry Abalha… didn’t see you’d already posted it.

      Ha, you can never have enough of the wonderful Ian Hamilton.

      In reply to Scozzie says:
      20 October, 2020 at 11:47 am
      Abalha @ 11.21am
      Big thanks for that, maybe keep a wee running list for folks

      Will do, certainly for the competitive seats, plenty time for those who’re already selected, only 12 to go.

    289. willie says:

      No reason why Joanna Cherry can’t challenge for the leadership.

      Sturgeon is going to be our electoral doom of that we should make no mistake. She has split the party, isolated the membership, ostracised the Yes campaign, corrupted democracy – the tide will turn

      The vaccine for covid will be her death knell. So yes, a change of leader before she plummets in the polls would be good.

    290. Alf Baird says:


      “Anyone know if Fergus Ewing is woke?”

      Is he awake, even?

    291. Patsy Millar says:

      I am now totally confused (yesterday I was slightly confused) about the Dumbarton hustings. I shall be ‘attending’ and will listen carefully to what the candidates say and just hope
      that my question about their positions on the GRA debate is answered. Math Campbell has made his position clear and seems very balanced so it will be interesting to see what the others have to say. Afterwards, I may well have to find a dark corner somewhere and recover with a gin and tonic if I’m no further forward!

    292. Big Jock says:

      Willie – I think Nicola will be standing down after December.

      Call it a hunch. Boris will go first, then her. Brexit no deal , fait accompli.

      Sturgeon hasn’t the armory for a fight nor the humility to admit her failure.

      She will end up working at the UN. They like to talk a lot , but achieve little. Political theorists!

    293. Abalha says:

      In reply to Patsy Millar, yes I saw Math’s statement, seems balanced to me , as I’ve said before he’d get my vote, he really worked hard during 2014 and of course set up English for Yes, genuinely committed to independence.

      Genuinely believe he has the best chance of beating Jackie Baillie too, he has the reservist engineer military experience and being English means she can’t attack him/the SNP of being anti-English.

      For anyone else here’s his statement.

      And the video he did with the Skotia folks

    294. kapelmeister says:

      Christian Schmidt, the m in your surname is superfluous.

    295. Breastplate says:

      it’s a bit disappointing to hear people on here extolling the virtues of following the rules.
      Manni should not have been placed in a position where he had to choose.

    296. Breastplate says:

      Another thing about Manni’s sentence, why does a day equate to the same time under curfew?
      The answer is, it doesn’t. The judge was incredibly harsh and this sentence highlights the lowlife in not just the Scottish judiciary but the SNP too.

    297. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “I appreciate this is your site and that you need to cover your back, but have I not done enough to earn your trust yet?”

      You were told twice to remove the headers in your links. If you do that you can come off moderation.

    298. Andy Ellis says:


      “You were told twice to remove the headers in your links. If you do that you can come off moderation.”

      There is a God after all! 🙂

    299. DonnyDarko says:

      I always saw the SNP as the motor to Independence, and after we’d reached our destination we’d get back into the dog fight of left right and up yours….but Sturgeon seems to be determined to fill the SNP with her feminists and trans genderists as well as a host of dodgy characters only interested in their own special interests. As I read the Rev’s worst fears I only see disharmony, disunity, and a party that’s switched off the motor drifting to a stop.Which makes me think it was her goal all along…. to stop the Salmond Juggernaut. Having the Herald jump to her defence today and say , oh poor wee Nicola, reinforces that “nae wheels on ma waggon” feeling.

    300. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell
      Sorry I must have missed that. By “the headers in your links”, do you mean the title and any blurb?

    301. Muscleguy says:

      “ISP (no backbone or strategy to be more than a whisper) ”

      Watch this space. We are keeping our powder dry as we formulate policy. I’m on the policy committee and things are apace I can assure you. I discovered a real nugget, pursued it, talked to some people, brought it the party and it lit a strong light.

      Our regional branches are getting organised. Mine’s AGM is online this evening, mustn’t forget. We will be selecting officers. Then we will select candidates. Party democracy is thriving. The policies we present will be voted on by the rank and file before becoming official party policy.

      So, once we have candidates and an agreed manifesto to shout about we will shout about it. Meanwhile we are beavering away smug that our party procedures knock those of the sclerotic, captured SNP into a cocked hat.

      You WILL be hearing from us, when we are ready.

      Meanwhile take a look at the policies we have agreed by joining. See if you like them. The party constitution is also up and public, take a look around.

      We cannot help with your first vote conundrum though if it were me I would vote SSP or Solidarity if they were standing. I voted TUSC (or whatever it was) last time since they supported our right to hold a referendum.

      But if you hold your judgement until we can present our full offering on the List that would be appreciated.

    302. Jim Lynch says:

      I find a lot of poison and misinformation. this is not what Wings is about; it makes me sad to see it being abused.

    303. twathater says:

      @ Maggie C 7.04am thank you Maggie for your links to my enquiry regarding the indy ref appeal fund

    304. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “By “the headers in your links”, do you mean the title and any blurb?”


    305. CameronB Brodie says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell
      Genuine error on my part, I wasn’t deliberating setting out to piss you off. You’re the boss, but that will certainly make it considerable more difficult to communicate a position that supports public health and human rights, through social science and stuff.

    306. Alf Baird says:


      re the ISP ‘vision’:

      “The ISP wants to build a pro-independence majority in Holyrood, and provide a political home for those who don’t feel properly represented by existing independence parties”

      1. I’m only interested in independence, not in a ‘pro-independence majority in Holyrood’ which might sit there like the SNP doing zip on indy for years.

      2. I’m not looking for any ‘political home’, only independence.

      3. If ISP is only standing on the List, what do you say to those independence supporters like me who are now unwilling to vote SNP at all?

      4. You have a 4/5 person exec committee one of whom is Party Leader, all of whose backgrounds are unknown. Is this credible?

    307. Andy Ellis says:

      @Alf Baird

      No doubt ISP folks can speak for themselves, but a few observations on your post. I’m minded to vote for the ISP on the list unless something better presents itself by May 2021, and time is running short. I do feel that the launch of the party was somewhat….amateurish let us say…? Be that as it may, there appears to be little alternative in the short to medium term absent some political earthquake in the next few months.

      1. It rather depends on the make up of the parliament, doesn’t it? The election in some months off, but even so…a week can be a long time in politics. Even if the SNP gain an absolute majority as polls suggest, having a few/several/more ISP MSPs can hardly hurt. The bigger the majority, the clearer the message to Westminster, particularly given the news yesterday of the Tory party’s war-gaming on how to defeat/divert #indyref2.

      2. Many of us aren’t looking for a political home, but achieving independence requires structures to organise the campaigning, doesn’t it? It requires parties to vote for, in particular if the referendum route is either closed to us, or we voluntarily abandon it.

      3. they’d probably say vote for A. N Other pro independence party (where available) or spoil your vote. FWIW I share your view and probably won’t vote SNP in the constituency vote. As I’m in Edinburgh Central, I’d probably have voted for Cherry if she’d been allowed to stand.

      4. How do you think parties start? It would obviously help if the ISP had some political big hitters, but until or unless Alex Salmond or Joanna Cherry or others declare their hands, would you prefer that nothing happened at all? Even a journey of 1000 miles starts with one step.

      The ISP may not be perfect, but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If nothing else they serve as a corrective for the SNP, and if as many of us think nothing much happens post May 2021, we can either start to construct something else, or help the ISP develop.

    308. Andy Ellis says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      20 October, 2020 at 6:00 pm

      ” “By “the headers in your links”, do you mean the title and any blurb?”


      Dunno about everyone else, but I’m REALLY looking forward to BTL threads without wall to wall Spameron! 🙂

    309. David Caledonia says:

      Cameron writes a lot of sense

    310. Graham says:

      I’m with Breeks (19 October, 2020 at 1:10 pm).

      Impeach – and seize the day.

    311. Abalha says:

      In reply to Andy Ellis at 807pm, interesting post.

      I take your point that all parties have to start somewhere BUT given Scotland is at such a critical juncture I don’t think ISP have the luxury of slowly building if they want to garner votes next year.

      They MUST get big hitter, doesn’t need to be an SNP MP could be a well kent,to the wider public,face who supports independence.

      Time really is of the essence.

    312. Andy Ellis says:

      @David Caledonia 12.02

      Spameron doesn’t write anything much, nor would most agree what he floods the thread with is sensible. The BTL comments will be all the better for his absence.

    313. Andy Ellis says:

      @ Albalha 6.44am

      I agree they need a big hitter, but since it looks like SNP are on course for an outright majority it doesn’t really matter. I agree it would be good if they reach escape velocity and unseat some of the more egregious yoon bench warmers in Holyrood, but I sense we have another 4 or 5 years to build something anyway, as the SNP will just sit on their hands waiting for permission again won’t they?

    314. June Maycock says:

      I am surprised this branch not under “special measures” as our was. Coatbridge and Chryston. We tried to fight the good fight and were totally disgusted by the attitude and actions of the heid bummers. Sorry to say we left them to it and lots left the party..

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