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The Run-Aways

Posted on September 30, 2020 by

Incredible, really. Just one day after we accuse the SNP of trying to dodge its problems by hiding from them and censoring anyone who brings them up, this happens:

Plenty of SNP members, including the party’s former Trade And Industry spokesman, know this approach is untenable. It really is time the SNP started listening to them. A party that scurries away bleating in terror every time it’s threatened with the slightest scrutiny is plainly not capable of winning the hard fight for independence.

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    1. 30 09 20 12:57

      The Run-Aways | speymouth

    2. 30 09 20 14:20

      The Run-Aways –

    104 to “The Run-Aways”

    1. Ian Brotherhood says:

      How about we crowdfund a cash reward for the first journalist to track down Murrell and ask him a question?

      Any old fuckin question will do…

    2. Newburghgowfer says:

      How long before Pishart bleats that the members are bullying the committee for demanding answers

    3. BuggerlePanda says:

      I am totally not amazed and totally downhearted.

    4. Gary45% says:

      Le Panda@11.43
      Oui, Si, Yes.

    5. AwakeNotWoke says:

      It’s a lost cause now as far as I can see. Just too far gone.

    6. Desimond says:

      Its just so sad.
      All that hope, energy, enthusiasm, dynamism and money no less, pissed up against the wall as absolute power once again corrupts absolutely.

      The fingers in the ears defence will be used by all the current defenders while we all just drift away wondering What the fuck could have been.

      All the while inept folk like Scottish Labour and the Annie Wells and Douglas Ross’s of this world just laugh and laugh into a hearty retirement at everyone else’s expense.


      PS..I naively thought Joanna Cherry was gonna come along and pick up that baton Alex had passed to Nicola and drive us home towards the finish line..I didnt realise there had been a switch for an ACME style stick of dynamite mid race.

    7. Bob Mack says:

      Yet at every afternoon news conference all I hear is Nicola stating that she welcomes scrutiny s part of Democracy.

      There are definitely two faces to the SNP bierarchy. One for public view and the other which is kept from view. Like Murrell is kept from view.

    8. Polly says:

      Yes it’s looking worse and worse now. I can see the Penfold likeness but pity there’s obviously no character resemblance.

    9. robertknight says:

      Slow motion car crash in action.

    10. kapelmeister says:

      People who look at all this and see nothing wrong really need to get themselves down to metaphorical Specsavers.

      BTW Peter A Bell commented today on WGD and did a first-rate demolition job on Mr Kavanagh’s argument.

    11. Ian McCubbin says:

      Not good last years October Conference was poorly attended and very stage managed. I manged to get to speak on a couple of useful motions, one on abuse and one on Scottish Currency.
      Surprisingly no motions on UDI or any form of Independence plan B.
      The fact this years won’t run even remotely is very damming.

    12. ClanDonald says:

      Can members take the NEC to court if they refuse to hold a conference? It’s in the party constitution that one must be held and even the pandemic isn’t an excuse not to have one online.

      Crowdfunder anyone?

    13. Jason Smoothpiece says:

      Have been increasingly worried by events at the SNP.

      Resigned membership very reluctantly and with sadness.

      I actually never thought it would come to a situation like this.

      Like many folk on here very angry but mainly sad.

      I cannot see any light ahead.

    14. Graf Midgehunter says:

      Keep up the pressure Rev, expose them, chase them, ask the questions nobody else will.

      Make them sweat because they know we’re on to them.

      When will the dam burst when an insider comes out with the truth? Who won’t be able to stomach it any more?

    15. Jill Sharpe says:

      Problem with leaving the party is that that will only make matters worse – it needs more realists to join and take the party to where it should be.

    16. kapelmeister says:

      Sturgeon’s come a long way from the time a few short years ago when she was acclaimed by a 12 000 strong crowd at the Hydro.

    17. Breeks says:

      Puts a whole new spin on the term “party crashers”.

      The light at the end of the tunnel just gets smaller and smaller.

      Scotland fkd sideways by it’s own shitty backstabbing leadership. As a Nation we need to start hanging a few of these crooked bastards by the neck. We shoulda done it 1707, but better late than never eh?

    18. indyfan says:

      Joanna Cherry’s tweet on this:
      “I’m sure there will be an @theSNP conference & NEC elections because they are required by our party constitution. I’ve been assured that plans facilitating it online are well advanced. Re the NEC election, delegates already vote online so no problems there”.

    19. G H Graham says:

      The SNP NEC appear to have their tails between their legs, don’t they?

      Yet that diminutive, yellow-brown-red, pet canine who apparently has a blog, is besotted on Twitter with Sturgeon & her kinky cabinet; apparently convinced that she will miraculously brush aside, whenever it suits her, Westminster’s flat our rejection of any constitutional negotiation & lead us down a sugar free, non binary, socially distanced, Caledonia.

      I’m not sure what’s more amazing; his & his followers’ messianic belief in the cult of “Oor Nicola” or that the SNP NEC thinks it can simply dismiss holding a conference because it’s uncomfortable with the scrutiny that it rightfully deserves?

      People really should be asking about Sturgeon’s & Murrel’s alleged involvement in an attempt to have an innocent man convicted at the High Court in Edinburgh & their willful obfuscation & belligerence towards a Holyrood committee doing its best to uncover the truth.

    20. Paul says:

      The Murrells/NEC/ScotGov are currently everything I voted yes to get away from.

      Sturgeon is a ‘big fan’ of HR Clinton apparently, alot of this behaviour feels like it’s straight out the Clinton/DNC play book.

      When it all comes crashing down and they ‘inadvertantly’ unleash hell on us (already happened last night perhaps?) will they blame the Russians as well?

    21. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @kapelmeister –

      Thanks for the heads-up.

      I mistakenly thought Peter had commented btl at WGD.

      For others who may have done likewise, here’s the link to his blog.

    22. Nell G says:

      I get more and more depressed with this every day. Are the government we get a reflection of the failings of our society? Are we too dumb to manage our own affairs? Are we collectively as weak in personality as the SNP leadership?

      How the hell did we end up in this mess? I remember the carnival atmosphere in Glasgow in 2014; I thought it was in the bag; You could feel the hope and anticipation of better days in the air.

      We need to rip this up and start again, it will be quicker.

    23. Ottomanboi says:

      Does Scottish independence really need an SNP conference, more hot air?
      A people knows when its time has come, it does not need political parties or conventions, simply the popular will to make it happen.
      These times have exposed systemic failings and the gap between power and authority.
      Much power but little evidence of the ‘informed authority’ contrasted with the ‘political authority’ to exercise it.
      The system is akin to a cat playing with a tiger which has been programmed to think it’s a mouse.

    24. Josef Ó Luain says:

      Meanwhile … there are people out there, people who should and probably do, know better, who, for their own purpose, vehemently advocate the blind-eye approach to the growing catalogue of issues, based on the belief, apparently, that today’s polling figures can be meaningfully projected 8 months into the future.

    25. Effijy says:

      There goes another few thousand memberships!

      I seriously think they have pissed off half of the
      Membership enough to make them resign and at
      Least half of the remainder with this deluge of skulduggery!

    26. kapelmeister says:

      Ian @12:27

      No Ian. Peter actually has commented today btl on WGD as well. In fact, after Peter’s original lengthy comment, the host replied and he and Kavanagh had a real verbal set-to.

    27. Sharny Dubs says:

      Don’t get mad or sad.

      Get even!!

    28. Breeks says:

      Ottomanboi says:
      30 September, 2020 at 12:29 pm
      Does Scottish independence really need an SNP conference, more hot air?

      To de-throne Sturgeon and sack her rotten NEC? We all need an SNP conference… like yesterday!

    29. Robert Graham says:

      Throwing it all away ! ,

      That was a current post of WGD , to throw something away indicates you have either got something or have gained something of value in order to throw it away througth carelessness or misjudgement , What have we got to throw away ? .

      Question can anyone point to a single a bit of progress that’s been made since 19th September 2014 , just one will do .

      A prediction made on another platform Look at the sky for a major event today aye ok watching ? Still Waiting and Watching eh any idea what time the big event starts ? Just Asking Like

      By now even the unquestioning blind deaf, dummies on another platform , a diminishing number now By the looks of it ,they now can’t get over and can’t answer a simple question , how much progress has been made under this leadership ,

      Your faith in the plan , the last plan being waiting until older NO voters peg it so we have a majority , eh wee fly in the ointment. old YES voters tend to pop off at the same rate as NO voters ,

      Peats grand speeches it the English Parliament and the Eloquent renditions by Ian Blackford to a mostly empty house because the Tories as a matter of course bale out just when they speak and make sure of the greatest disruption is caused , again what’s been gained ? , most people don’t and will never tune into either Parliament , so they get their News from a mostly unionist perspective that’s fair balanced and free of any political bias.

      Again a progress report , listening , yep the good old sound of f/n Silence , was it worth all the verbal Dross and pointless posturing , they might as well have stayed at home drinking Cider , what a bloody expensive waste of time and energy ,

    30. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @kapelmeister –

      Apologies – I’ve probably just missed it because of the ‘nesting’ format Paul K uses for comments. I’ll go back now and have a proper look, cheers.


    31. Breeks says:

      kapelmeister says:
      30 September, 2020 at 12:32 pm
      Ian @12:27

      No Ian. Peter actually has commented today btl on WGD as well. In fact, after Peter’s original lengthy comment, the host replied and he and Kavanagh had a real verbal set-to.

      Yep, get in fast, because the exchange will probably disappear. They’re a bit touchy about criticism in some quarters.

      … but well said Mr Bell.

      Their argument seems to be that having Section 30 formally refused is a necessary precondition to doing anything. That simply isn’t true, but even if it was, it doesn’t address the years Sturgeon has squandered not clarifying the legal ambiguity.

    32. Socrates MacSporran says:

      What an SNP leadership with balls should do is tell BoJo & Co.

      OK, given your bare-faced attack on Scottish devolution, we will be holding a referendum on Independence, to be voted-on on the same day as the 2021 Holyrood Elections.

      They then have two choices:

      1. Stop it by whatever means they can, be it by closing Holyrood, or by going to law.

      2. They allow it, but, probably alongside the Labour Party and the Lib-Dems – tell the SCALPERS not to take part – in which case, we end up with a virtual all pro-Independence Holyrood parliament after May.

      Then, we will know what the next move will be.

      Whatever, doing nothing, or not forcing the issue, is not an option – otherwise, they definitely will shut down Holyrood.

    33. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @kapelmeister –

      Found it, thanks, right up near the start of the thread.

    34. Tony O'Neill says:

      More empty words to come from the snp mp’s and msp’s and even less action.

    35. Dave Beveridge says:

      Well the Yes movement is now well and truly split down the middle. There’s the “Oor Nicola’s got this” brigade and then there’s the rest of us.

      It’s hard to see where we go from here as the two viewpoints are so polar opposite. The unionists must be laughing their heads off while we all throw insults at each other.

      Anyone got a way forward that we can ALL get behind?

    36. Alf Baird says:

      kapelmeister @ 11.59

      A fact WGD and the SNP hierarchy seem unaware of is that no ex British colony ever required a ‘Section 30’ from Westminster for independence.

    37. katherine hamilton says:

      All this fight with WGD is depressing. I like him and his musings. However the spat about a S30, which he acknowledges will be refused is simply resolved. After she finishes her wee talk on now, write and request it, publish it for all to see, indicating that no reply in 10 days is taken as consent.
      Go on Nicola, I dare you. Prove you’re telling the truth about Indyref next year.

    38. susanXX says:


      My thoughts exactly! Though I do remember cringing at the adulation.

    39. Colin Alexander says:

      Peter Murrell worked at the Banff and Buchan constituency office of Alex Salmond MP (Source Scotsman Newspaper) when Salmond became SNP leader.

      Murrell got the job as SNP CEO in 1999 while Salmond was SNP leader. Salmond was SNP leader until 2000. (Followed by Swinney).

      Murrell and Sturgeon married 2003.

      Sturgeon tried to be SNP leader in 2004. Then Salmond through his hat in the ring, as he thought Roseanna Cunningham would beat Sturgeon. Sturgeon joined with Salmond on a joint ticket with Salmond as leader / Sturgeon deputy leader.

      But, Salmond was still an MP at the time, so Sturgeon effectively acted as SNP leader at Holyrood.

      Salmond was then an MSP 2007-14.

      Sillars appears to be right, that the concentration of power happened under Salmond.

      Sturgeon and Murrell seemed to be part of the Salmond clique. ( Et tu Mr and Mrs Murrell?)

      What is remarkable is the power behind the throne of Peter Murrell over the last 20+ plus years. First he’s Salmond’s right hand man at Salmond’s office, then SNP CEO. Then husband of another SNP leader and still CEO.

      I’m no saying he is but, Peter Murrell would be the ideal agent / operative of MI5.

      Sillars also said this last week, in case anyone missed it:

      SNP veteran says party chief executive’s position is becoming “more untenable” every day:

    40. Sarah says:

      Question: Who are the strongest, most capable MSPs? And which of them are favourable to urgent action to restore Scotland’s freedom from the Union? I ask because I don’t know the personalities at Holyrood.

      The only one in the first category I can think of is Mike Russell [I can’t call many of our SNP MSPs to mind at all, other than those who are retiring].

      Is Mike Russell the sort who would tell Nicola that she must stand down?

      And is he keen on wider action than s30, and quicker than May 2021?

    41. Margaret Lindsay says:

      Every day brings more bloody disillusion. This mob are corrupt and inept. I’ll not live to see independence that’s for sure.

    42. Kenny says:


      There’ll be no such bold statement to the London party and no such announcement of a referendum from the current SNP leadership. Even if she were to make such an announcement – which she won’t – the onslaught Salmond received from the british media would be but a minor insignificance in the face of what the Press, keeping powder dry, have in store regarding the Murrell/NEC Affair.

      The rot within the SNP is now truly stinking, our wrists well and truly bound, tight. Covid-19 has been a godsend, but also little more than a momentary respite for Nicola Sturgeon who’s lost her way in the power game – and lost Scotland during play.
      She’ll do well settling in another country; feted and in demand as an after dinner speaker.
      “But we’ll have Angus Robertson” they’ll all cry.

    43. Polly says:

      @ Socrates MacSporran at

      ‘tell the SCALPERS not to take part’

      I’m not sure it’s a good idea us embedding the name Scalpers to them. After all if they claim a few high profile scalps in the coming election as they did Salmond and Robertson in a previous one, they’ll be delighted and crowing about it all over the internet. It will be the icing on their cake to use our slogan against us.

      It’s a bit like Daisy Walker’s ‘we can do so much better than Boris’. Although I agree with almost all she says, the focus on just that slogan goes to pot if he steps down in January. Yes we can change to another slogan after, but it looks better having one in long term use for all eventualities and that people are already familiar with and that won’t be thrown back at us as failure should they indeed claim scalps.

    44. Daisy Walker says:

      @ David Beverage
      ‘Anyone got a way forward that we can ALL get behind?’

      We campaign and get support for Indy over 60% by years end.

      We use some common themes:

      We can do so much better than Boris, Believe In Scotland, Believe in you.

      Without Indy we lose Devolution, We lose the NHS, we lose jobs galore, we lose food standards, we lose our water, we lose our human rights.

      For economic facts check out and if possible order up and use Business For Scotlands book ‘Believe in Scotland’.

      We get support for Indy over 60% before years end and in the process identify viable local candidates for Indy list seats.

      With support at and over 60% – the SNP leadership argument that Scotland isn’t ready for a plebiscite Holyrood election becomes null and void, and the timing of requesting a S30 becomes at its most powerful.

      A No from WM or indeed a no reply – translates directly into votes for Indy at HE. There really isn’t a more appropriate time to request a S30.

      While support for Indy is below 60% the argument ‘Scotland isn’t ready, we want to hold Indy Ref only when we can win’ become illegitimate.

      Since we are in Covid times – we utilise Billboards – home made is going to be necessary – every wheelie bin is a billboard, posters, leaflets, bumper stickers, T shirts, and small, safe conversations.

      Go for info graphics and short slogans – We can Do so much better than Boris. Get it visible.

      One thing for those worried about Covid – do you want to face it with or without an NHS.

      We have country to save, we need to get on with it and stop waiting for someone to hold our hands and give us permission.

    45. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s quite simple peeps, if your administrative practice lacks coherence and compatibility with the Common law, it is prone to becoming a tad fascistic in nature. Though seeing as how HMG no longer feels constrained by the Common law, this should not pose a problem for Scotland’s devolved administration, who appear to be doing all in their power to maintain administrative coherence and compatibility with British constitutional dogma and criminality.


      Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea:
      Administrative Law in an Age of Rights

    46. Stuart MacKay says:

      Iain Lawson’s blog is worth a read. The language is more measured but in a sense that makes the situation worse. It’s clear that the current abuse of power and abuse of the party’s constitution cannot go unchallenged. The work of decades is being torn up an spat on. The only doubt left is whether anybody in the SNP leadership is going to stand up and be counted or will there be a need for a complete change at the top.

    47. Colin Alexander says:

      Let’s not forget too:

      It was under the Salmond clique that the SNP dropped the electoral mandate for indy or plebiscite election policy. Replacing it entirely with the failed indyref policy.

    48. MaggieC says:

      Excellent column from Kevin McKenna in today’s National ,

      “ Snp infighting the biggest threat to party in face of weak opposition “

      “In 2002 Theresa May, then chairwoman of the party, in a rare moment of self-awareness, told her members: “There’s a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies. You know what some people call us – the Nasty Party.”
      At least the Tories reserved most of their beastliness for their opponents. In 2021, the SNP, who have always portrayed themselves as a rainbow organisation open to all, are now considered to be Scotland’s nasty party. Troublingly for the SNP hierarchy it’s not their traditional opponents in the Tory/Labour Unionist alliance who are loudest in saying this, it’s many in its own rank-and-file membership. “

    49. Polly says:


      ‘Though I do remember cringing at the adulation.’

      I’m not sure it was all or even mostly personal adulation at that time. I feel it was more, we had thought on the morning after the referendum it was over and were all so deflated, Salmond resigned, unionists were crowing. Then bit by bit, we watched the numbers rise and our hopes rose with them. All those people who agreed with us, we weren’t alone in our dejection – we weren’t even dejected, we were going to fight on. So I think it was mostly that.

      I do remember reading before she took over from Salmond about her being ‘adored within the party’ so there are undoubted followers of that ilk and obviously always were. I don’t think they numbered that highly though and as she continues to keep messing up, even most of those will desert her. What I’m longing for is Salmond saying something about the future. Maybe we’ll get an idea of where his wing sees things going. Whatever faults he had he’s a better strategist than she is. What would resolve all this for both sides of the divide is for them to bury the hatchet at least in public and even if only before the election/referendum so everyone of us can concentrate our fire where it is needed. Unfortunately I could see him being willing to bury the hatchet more easily than her.

    50. Polly says:

      Sorry that was to Susan

    51. Sarah says:

      My question at 1.13 was not rhetorical. I want to know which MSPs to write to first about starting disciplinary action against the FM for the obstruction of the Parliamentary enquiry [amongst other reasons]. Obviously the ones nearest the top but with sufficient backbone and moral strength to act and have an effect on others.

      Anyone here know the answer: which are the strongest, most principled SNP MSPs, and which of them keenest on pursuing independence?

    52. Daisy Walker says:

      @ Polly
      ‘t’s a bit like Daisy Walker’s ‘we can do so much better than Boris’. Although I agree with almost all she says, the focus on just that slogan goes to pot if he steps down in January.’

      A good slogan is like a punch to the solar plexus, it has to be true, it has to be emotional (to challenge it is to challenge the persons belief system – which never works and takes too long). A good political slogan highlights beyond one time frame, and illuminates a whole system…

      And nothing sums up the English Establishments contempt for ruling Scotland more than Boris.

      Hands up if you still occasionally hear, ‘I can’t stand that Alex Salmond’?

      It worked. Sadly.

      So now we point out…

      Better Together – with Boris, aye right.

      They replace Boris with another Eton Mess – ‘oh aye, here comes another Boris’ is the answer. You paint them with the same Boris brush.

      If a new leader comes along – and who? We’ll change tactics then, but for now

      We Can Do So Much Better Than Boris.

    53. Somerled says:

      Colin Alexander @1.08

      I Agree with everything you write but you’ve missed out the allegations whether Sturgeon/Murrell is a genuine marriage or whether Sturgeon acts as Murrell’s ‘beard’ and vice versa. It shouldnt matter if they are gay or bisexual but its another sign that they aren’t honest. Also what does Salmond know and will he reveal anything?

      I believe the rumours especially with Sturgeon & SNP focus on LGBT & GRA reform which include

      Why does Sturgeon have a Non Disclosure Agreement
      Were Police called to Murrell & Sturgeon home after an argument?
      Is Sturgeon involved with a female French Ambassador?
      Did Sturgeon have an affair with Humza?
      Did Sturgeon have a fling with Judy Murray?

      I want politicians who are honest and can’t be blackmailed. There are too many secrets in SNP including Derek Mackays behaviour for any of them to be trustworthy. What else is there?

    54. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Why would Salmond want to bury the hatchet with somebody who plotted to have him thrown in prison for the rest of his life? Can’t see that happening. Sad and poignant thing is when you randomly see an old photay of the two of them together. You can see the warmth and affection between them. Nothing like today. Mow the divide is so wide and glacial I can’t ever see anything bridging it.

    55. Gary45% says:

      Robert Graham@12.35
      “can anyone point to a single bit of progress since 2014”
      The day they stood up and walked out of Westminster.
      For a short time the media in the UK actually took notice of them.
      Since that day, nothing.

      Comment above regarding joining/re-joining to try and “make a difference”. Personally speaking, once bitten twice shy, they ask for ideas, you give them ideas and they simply ignore them.
      Been there, done that.

      Take some free advice.
      Life’s too short to waste time on any political party, spend more time with family, friends and loved ones, at election time, listen to every parties usual election garbage, then pinch your nose in the polling booth, and pin the tail on the donkey.
      Next years Scottish election, could be one of the saddest days in our recent history. The term “so near, yet so far” doesn’t even come close.
      Then again if the impeached orange racist gets re-elected, the world will be “up the creek” anyway.

    56. Breastplate says:

      Paul Kavanagh has changed his stance regarding a Section 30. It used to be that Boris and chums wouldn’t be able to refuse a one because of the support for independence because to say “no” would be unsustainable but now his stance is to ask for one expecting a refusal and then proceed on an alternative route towards independence.

      This new stance I agree with, Section 30 is a distraction and we shouldn’t even be talking about asking Westminster for anything. We can look at a Westminster Section 30 not as asking for permission but asking for their blessing.

      If we receive it, then good and if we don’t then that is also good because the refusal is then weaponised by us to gain more support for independence and show how intransigent Westminster is.
      We would also do away with any conversations about having or not having a Section 30 and save us all some time.

    57. Polly says:

      @ WhoRattledYourCage at 1.43 pm

      ‘Mow the divide is so wide and glacial I can’t ever see anything bridging it.’

      Salmond and Sturgeon coming together would close the trench in the whole movement.

      ‘Why would Salmond want to bury the hatchet with somebody who plotted to have him thrown in prison for the rest of his life? Can’t see that happening’

      The same reason he’s kept quiet so far, he doesn’t want to damage independence. He’s fought for it all his life, as Colin says, he was the one who left the present lot in charge to do their worst, no doubt he’ll feel that as a responsibility. Who knows, maybe they counted on his desire for independence not to damage the party after they brought the allegations against him? If so they didn’t know him as well as they thought. But he seems to be holding fire, probably to get the right targets when the time comes. He could well accept a temporary peace to achieve what he’s worked for all his political life. Sometimes you have to shake hands with enemies in politics, he knows that better than most. I just wish we could all move on to next election for good or ill, this present situation is becoming torturous.

    58. Polly says:

      @ Daisy Walker at 1.42pm

      Yes I know your reasoning. I agree with most of what you say. But about highlighting Boris so often I still think that’s the wrong tactic.

    59. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Daisy/Polly –

      Let’s not forget our late friend’s ‘slogan’ –

      ‘Scotland the Brave, or Scotland the Slave?’


    60. Stoker says:

      “A party that scurries away bleating in terror every time it’s threatened with the slightest scrutiny is plainly not capable of winning the hard fight for independence.”

      Nor should they be allowed anywhere near the negotiations after a ‘Yes’ majority. Untrustworthy! Get them out! Where are all these “decent” or “good” folk in the SNP we’re always hearing about? Is it not about time they all stood up to be counted?

    61. Stu hutch says:

      All this devision was started by Mr Murrell and a senior civil servant hatching a plan to to get rid of alex salmond.unfortunately for the snp they needed certain individuals to greatly exaggerate certain circumstances and others to just lie. unbelievably that part seems to have been all to easy for them as the alphabet sisters fell into line. Mr Murrell then used his position to lean on the police to spend as yet untold man hours and expense to put together a 20 strong team over 2 years to dig for non existent dirt. They
      then needed a corrupt judicial system to carry these spurious charges even to the point of having judges give life long annanimity to the people who would lie in a court of law and surprisingly to most of us anyway a currupt system under the guidance of lord woolfe was sitting in Edinburgh.The result of all this shenanigans lies deciet corruption and petty jealousy is where we are in politicians,judiciary,police,has been shot to pieces. The answer is easy for those on the outside.Mr Murrell and his staff should do what he expected of others and relinquish his position The heads of the public bodys who gave these charges credence which a group of ordinary citizens threw out unbelievabley within hours of hearing them .then we can get back to what the snp were voted in to do.We always thought we would do things better that the corrupt westminster way sadly one man has driven the Scottish Government and the independence movement into the gutter. Let’s get all the paperwork and WhatsApp messages out in the open take the hit then we can move on

    62. Dave Somerville says:


      Burd Power!!!

      Howz that for a slogan???

      Nicola would just love that eh?

      We have to try to get into the mindset of this woman who is leading Scotland a merry dance.

      She has openly admitted she would rather attend and lead an LGBT Gay Pride Rally than and political Rally.

      This would account for the Woke Brigade, who have hijacked Scotland’s only Independence Party.

      She is meant to be the fire breathing freedom fighter at the helm of the Scottish Independence Movenent.

      She is anything but.

      Her sexual orientation is her choice,,,but when it has derailed a whole Yes Movement, then it becomes our business.

      May I suggest that Sturgeon resigns as leader of the SNP and hand over the leadership to someone who won’t let her sexual orientation get in the way of our fight for Independence.

      Sturgeon would rather attend and lead an LGBT Gay Pride Rally in Glasgow than an AUOB Rally.

      Sturgeon would rather wear a rainbow coloured “Choose Love” t-shirt than a YES t-shirt.

      So the whole world can see where Sturgeon’s priorities lie,,,and it certainly isn’t winning Scottish Independence.

    63. Polly says:

      @ Ian Brotherhood says:
      30 September, 2020 at 2:03 pm

      ‘Scotland the Brave, or Scotland the Slave?’

      Indeed Ian. But then that’s not something that will change at the next election. It harks back to the Wars of Independence and on into the future, seemingly. Something similarly short and snappy and true about England’s relation to Scots I’d jump at using, that comprises something similar in sentiment to what Daisy means about English leaders over Scotland. Anyone come up with one?

      The Boris one doesn’t cut it for my unionist lot for another reason – they’re labour to their core.

    64. Dorothy Devine says:

      I find it puzzling that folk on here think it perfectly acceptable to attack other bloggers while expecting others to respect their point of view.

      A bit like those who support certain entitlements can ‘cancel ‘ others expressing their viewpoint.

      If you don’t like what someone has to say then don’t bloody read it .

      I am of the opinion that we need and will need all those who want an independent country to be able to proclaim it loud and clear and in harmony .

    65. Mike Fenwick says:

      If the SNP Constitution says: 9.3 National Conference shall meet at least once a year.

      And the last National Conference was 13th – 15th October 2019 at The Event Complex Aberdeen.

      Tempus Fugit, Memento Mori!

    66. holymacmoses says:

      Chief Executive of Scottish National Party
      . Passionate about Scotland’s future. Married to
      . Proud Uncle. Part-time cook and gardener.

      is Murrell’s legend. Note: it doesn’t say Scottish Independence:-)

      A conference would give people an opportunity to get their act together. I can only imagine that Ms Surgeon must now beginning to realise that she must give way to Joanna Cherry and I have no doubts that Ms Cherry along with Dr Whiteford and many more will be able to create a viable force and get us to independence in double quick time – perhaps bringing an element of organisational surprise into the Westminster arena.

    67. Hatuey says:

      Everybody involved at the organisational level of the independence movement, should start preparing today for two things;

      1) the imminent departure of Sturgeon and her regime.
      2) general mobilisation.

      We will never have an opportunity again like the one that is about to present itself.

      Additionally, everybody who supports independence needs to prepare to take part and throw their full support behind a reconfigured SNP which will have a new leadership team and a whole new strategy on independence.

      This is it.

    68. kapelmeister says:

      holymacmoses @2:21

      “Part-time cook”

      And full-time crook.

    69. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Polly, Salmond holding his nose for the greater good of independence…assumes that independence is something Sturgeon wants. Which, given her and the party’s (in)actions, more and more people are starting to doubt.

    70. Sylvia says:

      Am I allowed to use the word Mundell on here?

    71. Bob Mack says:


      Bloggers points of view have influence. They either challenge you to think of what is the real truth, or offer you reaffirmation of what you want to believe.

      WGD does the latter. He doesn’t want people in spite of evidence to dig too hard to upset the SNP apple cart. We should just accept it as part of a master plan which of course nobody knows anything about.

      He ties himself in knots and when He switches position it is because of “reasons”. Of course then everybody chips in with well done, brilliant. He is probably a nice chap, but I’m afraid he has a part to play in keeping everybody dumbed down

      He leads you up an alley of unquestioning obedience, which I think is unhealthy for anybody.

    72. Effijy says:

      Oliver Mundell, chip off the old useless beard muncher Mundell, has
      Been ejected from Holyrood for accusing the First Minister of lying about
      what she knows about the Salmond enquiry.

      I’m not against the word liar being used but proof is required or you should be
      Ejected, suspended and fined.

      Nicola could get out of it by giving the enquiry all the documents that they require.

      Trembling Mundell then acts as if he gives a shit about Covid affected students.
      Oli, you wanted the students back, and back they came but take great heart that
      They are tuition free Scottish students, unlike the English average £9,300 annual fee,
      the guidances is clear in Scotland unlike that bungling buffoon that leads the Tory part.

      Away and sit on your father’s knee and help him munch his way through that beard.

    73. Breeks says:

      Dorothy Devine says:
      30 September, 2020 at 2:16 pm
      I find it puzzling that folk on here think it perfectly acceptable to attack other bloggers while expecting others to respect their point of view…

      Aye, but that cuts both ways Dorothy.

      I won’t get into a petty squabble about who started it, but Rev Stu has been properly vilified for writing what needed to be written, and now that his dire warnings are proving to be 100% accurate, it wouldn’t go amiss for some of his bitter critics to eat a slice of humble pie or two, and maybe even apologise.

      Nobody in their right mind would have wanted these circumstances to arrive, but the SNP have nobody to blame but themselves for creating this mess.

      To all those folks who say don’t rock the boat, wheesht for Indy, etc, I would ask them whether they’d be prepared to visit Alex Salmond, banged up in the sex offender’s part of the prison for crimes which never happened. How about Craig Murray if he’s put behind bars? Or Mark Hirst?

      The irony is, it’s the people saying that democratic principle is sacrosanct and we need a “gold standard” referendum who are often the same ones who’d shrug their shoulders and look the other way while Alex Salmond had his life, legacy and reputation destroyed by a “gold standard” orchestrated conspiracy.

      I want Independence for Scotland because it’s the right and upstanding thing to be done. I want rid of Sturgeon and her crooked pals for the same reasons. I see no conflict or incompatibility between such two notions.

    74. Effijy says:

      Boris announces Scottish beef can now be sold in the US
      as part of an initial trade deal?

      But, American beef full of steroids and with low transportation costs
      will cost a fraction of our beef.

      So there we are the Housewives of Beverley Hills can afford to import it
      so that should keep one Scottish farmer solvent.

      In return we will be flooded with steroid beef, chlorinated chicken, and sell the NHS.

      Can’t beat a Tory Oven Ready Whack a Mole Get it Done Stitch up!

    75. Tony Little says:

      Well, what can you say? 50+ year supporter of SNP, I have resigned my membership and joined ISP – don’t know how that will work out, but at least they make no bones about their desire for Independence NOW.

      The current leadership are tainted. Why and how are questions that I do not think will be answered this side of Independence, but there should be little remaining doubt that there are serious problems at the heart of the SNP decision-making cabal.

      I say this with a heavy heart as I thought in 2014 that Nicola Sturgeon was exactly the one to complete the job Alex Salmond started. How wrong I was and how easily we can be persuaded to back a horse that doesn’t even want to get into the starting stalls.

      It is time for something new. Whether I stick with ISP, or if Stu starts an Independence Party I would back that one to the hilt. So,

      WHEN will a change be made?
      WHO will lead this change?
      HOW will they campaign and win over electorate?
      WHAT needs to be done to promote a genuine Independence Party?

      Time is fast running out

    76. Beaker says:

      Funny how the other parties managed virtual conferences.

      As to Sturgeon, she’s getting arrogant at her daily briefings. AN Aberdeen Councillor had written a letter regarding scientific advice, but her comment was not what you expect from a First Minister.

      True, it was a Tory councillor, but that’s not the point. There are better ways to respond to questions without resorting to pettiness.

    77. stonefree says:

      @ Sarah at 1:13 pm

      Mike Russell ? I’m not sure if it was him who had Murrell’s job before Murrell appeared or if it was another Micheal Russell.
      If it was him his salary was £35K Murrell’s started at £100K

      Murrell should be binned no question But if Sturgeon goes or stays the SNP have virtually the same problem in both cases
      An issue arises from who to have in Government , a bunch of Wokies and Smith as leader
      Cherry I believe would be favorite for lapsed members.
      Of course if Sturgeon came clean and cleared out the NEC, that might tide off her getting binned, but that would only be very short term
      Sturgeon and/or Murrell have turned over the SNP big time How much real damage ? At the moment I see it as permanent. Recoverable? Possibly
      Would those who are leaving remain , if there was a change of regime? I couldn’t guess

    78. Oneliner says:

      It pains me to quote from the effete pages of Bella Caledonia. My excuse is that the quote is from George Gunn whom I rate very highly…

      Until recently only commentators typically considered alarmist would use terms such as ‘fascism light’ and ‘quasi-fascism’ in the UK. There is a deep reluctance to go down this verbal path. If we do not, however, we may fail to appreciate what we may really be dealing with: a centre of power exhibiting a zealotry that is rare in British politics and even rarer when it commands centre stage, however much hidden from view.

      So there you have it. Do you want your fascism to be based in London or Edinburgh?

    79. Graeme says:

      This from WGD

      ” I watched Nicola today as I always do. Her ability to calmly and genuinely update the country on the way forward and to slap down the snide efforts of the “media” is a joy to behold. I have no doubt that she is raising the confidence of Scotland’s population one day at a time and that is ABSOLUTELY the key to our independence. It is confidence alone that will swing the vast majority of our populace behind our goal.

      To be honest, I am a bit staggered myself by her level of ability. She is the leader we needed – no disrespect to those who came before her – to win. She has the humility that genuinely accomplished people have and that is highly valued in Scottish culture.

      Happy days.”
      Honestly if arselicking was an olympic event he’d be a gold medalist 🙂

    80. Bob Mack says:

      I only want my former party back again. Power returned to the members and a leadership at all levels which are answerable to those members. Is that so much to ask?

      I do not want what we have now in any way,shape of form. It is not what Democracy should be.

    81. Giesabrek says:

      This would not have happened, none of this would have happened, with Alex Salmond at the helm.

    82. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      I think I have seen more photays of Mr. Murrell in the last couple of days than I have in the last several years, and a lot of them are old photays. Certainly has enjoyed evading the slimelight for a long time.

    83. Gary45% says:

      Aye, I heard that on LBC, that scenario went through my head at the time, also I heard “wiffle waffle” saying more powers were coming back to Edinburgh, aye that will be the new office block in the West End, not Holyrood. SNP should have been screaming that.
      I felt Mr Blackford bowled the soft ball yet again, maybe its time when the “clown Johnson” spouts the usual drivel, the elected SNP politicians simply start to harangue him until they get their points across, or as mentioned earlier, just get up and walk out, whilst calling Johnson, Gove and Co, liars.
      The place is a joke anyway.

    84. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “This from WGD”

      Jesus Christ. Where was this?

    85. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      WGD: “She is the leader we needed – no disrespect to those who came before her -to win.” Tell that to Alex Salmond. There’s been plenty of disrespect towards him. I used to really like WGD, thought he was funny and sharp, though I have not read him in a while as I don’t agree with a lot of what he says. Don’t recall him ever being that sycophantic, though. Makes me wonder if he has become just another rainbow warrior in the Sturgeon cabal. No disrespect to him. Oh well.

    86. Tony Little says:


      Agree with your description of WGD. I used to read him every day, but something happened to his objectivity some time ago. I don’t think I’ve read one of his Missives from the Mount for 6 months or more

    87. Brian Allan says:

      Hi Stuart, as it seems the s.t is about to hit the fan and it looks like the SNP are going to go into melt down before any new party has time to get established, is it not time to take a serious look at the route offered by the digital Scottish Covenant?

      Would love to know you’re thoughts on it

    88. CameronB Brodie says:

      I’m certainly not claiming I know it all, but I do know a bit about defending democracy from constitutional and administrative practice that is incompatible with the Common law.

      Journal of Law, Policy and Globalization Vol.56, 2016
      The Role of Justice in an Ideal Democratic System: Nigeria as a Case Study


      The role of Justice in any democratic society cannot be over emphasized this is because it constitutes and makes the society docile for proper growth and development. Hence, it is a given that Justice and democracy are central ideals of a liberal political morality.

      Although vast bodies of literature have been devoted to each of them, their relation to one another has remained relatively under-explored. Nevertheless, Contemporary liberals agree that only democratic arrangements can be just, but disagree about why democracy matters: some believe its value is instrumental, others believe it is intrinsic. On the former view, democratic participation is not a requirement of justice, but a means of discovering, or implementing, its demands. On the latter, democracy is intrinsically just: it is part of any plausible articulation of justice itself.

      Hence, this paper argues that in the presence of thin reasonable disagreement about justice, we should value democracy only instrumentally (if at all); in the presence of deep reasonable disagreement about justice, we should value it also intrinsically, as a necessary demand of justice. Since the latter type of disagreement is pervasive in real- world politics. It pays particular attention to Nigerian society and how justice would imply an ideal democratic system.

      Justice, Democracy, Ideal System and Nigeria

    89. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      “Would love to know you’re thoughts on it”

      ORDINARY MEMBER OF PUBLIC: “Ooh, what’s this?”

      [sees word “blockchain”]

      [runs away immediately]

    90. Joe says:

      It started before now, but it will ramp up.

      The next issue.

      Do not fear if you disagree and someone calls you ‘far right’, before too long now you will be far right simply for not accepting that adults can have consensual sex with children.

      2+2 = 5. Anyone can be a women. Scotland is not a country of ethnically northern europeans and Black lives matter will dictate what you are guilty of.

      This needs to be rejected. Not that anybody is unwelcome in Scotland. But we cannot have woke cultural marxists dictating who and what we are or what we need to be sorry about.

      In case it isn’t obvious – I fucking detest these people with every ounce of my being.

    91. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Tony Little – I still think he probably still is an intelligent, funny writer,and has a great talent with words. Those are not just things that go away overnight. He used to be great at satirical tearing Tory idiocy apart fearlessly and peerlessly.

      It would appear he has become an active part of the wagons closing and circling and defending the FM. As a gay man with a ‘New Scot’ husband, both minorities highly prized seemingly over all other groups of the Scottish public by the FM – I can see why he might defend Ms. Sturgeon so vociferously. But he never struck me in the past as a blind-faith propagandist.

      Maybe spending a lot of time praising and defending a politician or ideal, then finding out they were not who or what you thought they were, or wanted or needed them to be, can cause cognitive dissonance in the best of people. It certainly seems to have done a number on the heads of many SNP members, whose delusional, increasingly shrill defence of the indefensible is becoming more bizarre and risible by the day.

      I find all this internecine fighting tragic and depressing, for obvious reasons, but the column Stu just pulled apart seems to be so far divorced from the reality of the situation it’s incredible. It’s not just a matter of reading the room wrong, it’s being in a completely different room altogether. Tragic and sad all round, because nobody truly wants Scottish people fighting each other.

    92. wull says:

      Alas – I don’t know any Gaelic. But a Gaelic-speaker once told me that the word ‘slogan’ was one of the few Gaelic-origin words that made it into the English language. Look at the huge number of loan words English has welcomed from other languages, and you might wonder why it accepted so comparatively few from its nearest (and not-so-dearest?) neighbouring Celtic tongues.

      In any case, my friend of those long gone by days told me that the literal meaning of the original Gaelic word, which became ‘slogan’ in English, is ‘battle-cry’.

      If that is mistaken, I look forward to it being corrected by another Gaelic-speaker on this site.

      In any case, we do need battle-cries (and more than one) because what is going on at the moment is certainly an all-out, full-scale attack on Scotland’s very existence. They are trying to wipe us off the map, as if we do not exist. Like Edward I, their attitude is that Scots are not a people and never have been, and Scotland is not a nation, not a country but just a piece of land – and that land is up for grabs, and they are for grabbing it, to squeeze every last asset and even the very life out of it.

      That’s what Edward I did call Scotland after he thought he had abolished it as a kingdom, when de defeated and personally humiliated John Balliol in 1296, carting off to London the stone of destiny and all the symbols and insignia of nationhood. It was just to be called a ‘land’. Not even Scotland, certainly not the Kingdom of the Scots, just a ‘land’. It is amazing how the same mentality has re-emerged in our days, and completely taken over all those feeble and historically ill-educated minds from across the Parties that plank themselves on the green benches of Westminster, to bray and hiss and behave boorishly, as if nothing ever changed since the late 13th Century. Totally amazing – unbelievable really – but there it is, in full flow, for all to see, as England is re-born in a tidal wave of aggression and nostalgia. Carried away in a tsunami of unreality.

      And for us, it looks more and more like ‘Independence or bust’. But I am not suggesting that as a slogan (unless others like it): to me, we should never accept the ‘or bust’ part of it.

      Although it seems very low profile at the moment, I liked Dave Thomson’s idea of an umbrella Party which was originally to be called ‘Alliance for Independence’, until the Electoral Commission objected. Even if their objection was in bad faith, as I suppose it may well have been, I didn’t find it a very catchy title anyway.

      I may be wrong, but my understanding is that we have not heard the last of Dave Thomson and his allies. Last I heard they intend to keep the idea, find a new name, and carry on.

      Maybe they could call themselves ‘Independence for Scotland’. Not all that catchy either, but it says what they mean. The immediate objection would be that ‘IfS’ sounds too iffy. On the other hand it could give them a slogan that some might like the sound of. For instance:

      ‘IfS kicks Buts: Abolish Boris, Vote for Scotland’.

      Or any appropriate variation thereof. For instance, the second part, after the colon, could change to ‘Abolish Boris, Save Scotland’. Maybe that’s better.

      Alternatively, if Boris was pushed out in January and was no longer a target, the second part could be ‘Undo the UK, Vote for Scotland’. Or, if Gove took over from Johnson, that second part could be ‘Give Gove the Boot, Independence for Scotland’.

      And so on … With a bit of wit, which would make people laugh and keep them on the look-out for these slogans. There could be a whole series of them.

      All of them beginning with ‘IfS kicks Buts: …’

      For instance, if IfS were to agree among its component members a policy of an independent Scotland having its own currency, which is surely not beyond imagining, you could have: ‘IfS kicks Buts: An Independent Currency for an Independent Scotland.’

      As an alliance of different Parties, besides the key policy of Scotland becoming an independent country, there might be only a minimum of other agreed principles. But each of them could have its slogan, for instance in a whole series of car stickers, which people might watch out for. Collectors could collect them!

      The whole programme, the whole story of what you would be voting for, could be laid out in no more than a few pithy one-liners. Plus several others emphasising the principal one, the single key element, as in:

      IfS kicks Buts: the Time for Buts is Over – Independence Now!

      IfS kicks Buts: Nothing but Independence will Do!

      IfS kicks Buts: Free yourself from doubt, Believe in Scotland!

      IfS kicks Buts: Dump the doubts, Believe in Scotland’s Future!

      (Or just: Dump the doubt, Believe in Scotland!)

      We need to regain a bit of swagger, don’t we? I am no Rangers supporter, not in the least (mine is one of the smaller teams), but I did love watching Jim Baxter, especially when he was in a Scotland shirt. He had it, for sure, that wee bit swagger that speaks volumes … What happened to it? C’mon – we can get it back …

      One of the consequences of anti-Scottish propaganda, and the ‘internal colonisation’ it seeks to establish within our own hearts, is to make us a nation of self-doubters. How often did you hear, especially in 2014 (and it is still with us): ‘I’d love an independent Scotland, but …’

      That ‘but’ is fatal. We do have to get rid of it, even for the good of our own well-being. It’s like an illness, even an illness we have become fond of and attached to, and from which we need to be healed and liberated.

      So … let’s kick the buts, good and proper.

      That ‘but’ is fatal. It really does need to be kicked, right out the park.

      And if there is no IfS, someone else will have to do it.

    93. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Joe: what a pile of totally vomitous, fake-caring pile of white that article is. Nothing more need be said aboot it. Nobody as shrill in their preaching than a recent convert to any religion, to try and cover up for a lifetime of who-gives-a-fuckery. Reading the Daily Dreckcord for moral instruction, fucking hilarious! The Rangers and Celtic fans who buy it won’t even read that swill, and will probably hate it if they do. Oh the white-mam-slagging irony of it all!

    94. WhoRattledYourCage says:

      Erratum: ‘pile of shite,’ sorry. Funny Freudian phone-autocorrect slip. 🙂

    95. CameronB Brodie says:

      It’s simple social arithmetic folks, the populist right is simply a threat to open society and liberal democracy.

      sexism + racism + narcissism + parochialism + right-wing authoritarianism + social-dominance orientation + arbitrary and dogmatic legal practice = a state of fascism

    96. twathater says:

      @ Mike Fenwick 2.17pm I hope I am right in associating you with the GREAT vloggers TWA AULD HEIDS which I have tried to get people to visit and WATCH , your information is on a level with SC, and the determination and dedication towards independence for OUR country is palpable

      Anyway enough crawling Mike what I wanted to say is I have tried on 2 occasions to sign up to THE DIGITAL COVENANT but both times unsuccessful, reasons given insufficient information which was incorrect, I have tried repeatedly to locate a contact telephone number or email address to request a reassessment to no avail , can you tell me if there is some way to contact them apart from the main site , Thanks

    97. Wee Chid says:

      Tony Little says:
      30 September, 2020 at 3:47 pm

      “Agree with your description of WGD. I used to read him every day, but something happened to his objectivity some time ago. I don’t think I’ve read one of his Missives from the Mount for 6 months or more”

      Just took a sneaky peak tonight but the BTL comments are too much to stomach.
      Not too chuffed about my desire for Indy being questioned simply because I no longer have faith in the current SNP to deliver the goods. Who are these people who are so stuck on the Murrells and the idea that we’ll get a S30 if we just keep asking? Are they all members of the SNP wokerati?

    98. Mike Fenwick says:

      @twathter 5.46 … not on here very often so anxious about rules I may break … see (for starters) if this link helps – amended to hopefully pass any rules: www(dot)facebook(dot)com/hashtag/gethelpsigning.

      I support the initiative but am not directly involved – but why I said for starters is yours is not an unknown problem, for which I am trying to suggest a solution namely that all those who have signed without any hassle should make them selves available to help those with any problems not least because that shares the workload, but I hope the above link helps.

    99. Wee Chid says:

      Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
      30 September, 2020 at 4:20 pm
      “Would love to know you’re thoughts on it”

      ORDINARY MEMBER OF PUBLIC: “Ooh, what’s this?”

      [sees word “blockchain”]

      [runs away immediately]

      Every time I see it I reach Blochairn, which I believe is a suburb of Glasgow. I remember seeing it on a bus,

    100. Mike Fenwick says:

      @twathater 5.46 … apologies, that link ^ I offered won’t work. I have contacted those involved and when they get back to me – hopefully I can give you the correct link or how to make contact.

    101. Dave Somerville says:

      Totally agree Joe

    102. twathater says:

      @ Mike Fenwick 8.19pm thanks for that link Mike hopefully the next one will work, and as for not being on here often make, sure you are and post your links to your broadcasts as they are entertaining and informative, and require a broader audience, when posting the YT links don’t forget to delete the https://

    103. Mike Fenwick says:

      @twathater … the specific person I wanted is away on the Long Walk to Freedom, I think, so this is the best I can offer – without the https:// you do need, lol.

      It takes a while to reach the bit you need, so be patient, but you do get some music!!! Hope it does help you.

    104. twathater says:

      @ Mike Fenwick 1st Oct 2020 6.25pm thank you again for that link Mike , I have just watched the video on vimeo , I will try again with all the relevant info

    Comment - please read this page for comment rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use paragraph breaks in long comments. DO NOT SIGN YOUR COMMENTS, either with a name or a slogan. If your comment does not appear immediately, DO NOT REPOST IT. Ignore these rules and I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.

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